Bibles Removed From College Hotel Following Complaint From Atheist Activist Group

Gideons Bible pdGLENDALE, Ariz. — Officials at a public university in Arizona recently agreed to remove Gideon Bibles from the school’s hotel rooms following a complaint from a prominent professing atheist organization.

The Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF) sent a letter earlier this year to the CEO of the Thunderbird School of Global Management, which is part of Arizona State University. It said that an employee, who remained unidentified, had contacted FFRF to express their objection to the presence of the Bibles at Thunderbird Executive Inn.

FFRF also asserted that the Bibles violate the Establishment Clause of the United States Constitution, which reads, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.”

“If a state-run university has a policy of providing a Christian religious text to guests, that policy facilitates illegal endorsement of Christianity over other religions and over non-religion,” the letter, written by attorney Madeline Ziegler, read. “Permitting members of outside religious groups the privilege of placing their religious literature in public university guest rooms also constitutes state endorsement and advancement of religion.”

“Providing Bibles to inn guests sends the message that ASU endorses the religious texts,” it asserted. “It sends the message to non-Christian and non-religious guests that the university expects they should read the Bible, and specifically the version of the Bible provided; the Gideon Bible.”

The correspondence also contended that “[r]egardless of whether the Bibles were donated by a private party, the placement of a holy book in guest rooms for guests to read demonstrates government endorsement of a religious message.”

FFRF consequently requested that the Bibles be removed from Thunderbird Executive Inn.

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On July 19, CEO Allen Morrison provided notice to FFRF that he had instructed staff to remove of the Gideon Bibles from rooms.

“I have … requested that religious materials be removed from the inn’s guest rooms,” he wrote in the brief correspondence. “I trust that resolves your concerns.”

FFRF, which announced the development on Tuesday, applauded the outcome.

“Anyone zealous enough to need the Bible as bedtime reading will travel with one,” said Co-President Annie Laurie Gaylor in a statement. “The rest of us paying guests seek a vacation from proselytizing when we’re on vacation. What is offensive at private hotels and motels, however, becomes unconstitutional at public-supported rooms.”

As previously reported, FFRF has also convinced the Iowa State University, the University of Wisconsin, Pennsylvania State University, Portland State University and Northern Illinois University to remove Bibles from their guest rooms.

But the religious liberties group Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF) has asserted that FFRF’s contentions are in error.

“[B]y succumbing to FFRF’s demands, you may have exposed yourself … to potential liability. Presumably, your guest rooms include a variety of printed materials, including magazines, phone books, and information about the campus and guest facility,” it explained in a letter to officials at Iowa State University and the University of Wisconsin. “By removing the Bibles because they are religious, you may have engaged in viewpoint discrimination, which is ‘an egregious form of content discrimination’ and a ‘blatant’ violation of the First Amendment.”

Gideons International was founded in 1899 in Janesville, Wisconsin, and first began distributing Bibles in 1908.

“In view of the fact that almost all of the Gideons in the early years of the association were traveling men, the question quite naturally arose regarding how they might be more effective witnesses in the hotels where they spent so much of their time,” the organization explains of its history on its website. “One trustee went so far as to suggest that the Gideons furnish a Bible for each bedroom of the hotels in the United States.”

Gideons International now is active in 190 countries worldwide, and has printed Bibles in over 90 languages.

“Through God’s grace and to His glory, more than 1.9 billion Bibles and New Testaments have been placed through our association, and the work continues,” the group says.


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  • Sporkfighter

    Private property . . . the owner can push his or her beliefs. It might be a bad business move or if might not, but it’s a right he has.

    Public property . . . the owner is all of us, Muslim, Christian, Hindu, atheist and a hundred more. The publicly employed caretaker of public property doesn’t get to push his belief over all others. Had the administrator of the hotel been Muslim, and had the books been the Koran, you and I know there would be a howl of protest from Christians to go along with the Freedom From religion’s protest.

    • http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EvidencefortheBible/ Galut1

      many hotel restaurants are starting to consider having islamic Halal compliant meals and I think there will likely be little complaint … 😉
      .

      • hytre64

        No more so than there are complaints at Kosher Deli’s.

    • Ato Jon

      How about this…. don’t read it but allow others to find comfort if they so choose. I mean, since the idea that God created everyone equal is the basis of Western democracy, it’s really kinda dumb to say said society has no place for its source, whether in public or elsewhere. And no, you won’t find that idea in the Koran and it has zero historical relevance.

      • Bob Johnson

        “since the idea that God created everyone equal is the basis of Western democracy”

        Why did it take so long for different groups to become equal? It took until 1920 for women to get the vote.

        • Theophile

          Why? … The general public’s knowledge of history had to fade.

          # How do you like the way Satan manipulated Adam out of Eden giving Eve the vote?
          What? You think it “equal” that ONLY the prospective mother gets the EXCLUSIVE CHOICE to MURDER her yet born child with impunity… EVEN AGAINST her husband the child’s Biological fathers wishes?

          … Equal is the woman’s exclusive choice to label bio-dad a dead-beat & have Uncle Sam MAKE HIM PAY, while she goes clubbing(leaving grandma to babysit), in the case “she decides” to let the child be born?

          Equality is establishing no-fault-divorce, where “she gets to choose” to divide the family over hysterical selfishness in decision making?

          I bet you are all into “orifice equality” too Bob… Where you’re in denial that Mr Science has claimed “sex” to be “reproductive-oriented” & the rectum for discharging waste…. Right?

          • Bob Johnson

            Where is all this coming from? It was Ato Jon’s position that God created everyone equal, not me. I tried to point out that equality in our democracy has been a slow process with different groups getting rights at different times.

            Yes you are correct, some groups still do not have these rights. However, I do not understand why you go into a long, puerile rant about women and end with making unsubstantiated guesses about me

          • Theophile

            Sorry Bob, perhaps you are one of the few that brings up equality outside the court-awarded-lifestyle-agenda, which “historically” shows that once homosexuality is accepted in a democracy, nobodies butt is safe(Genesis 19 & Judges 19…to match the 1919 19th amendment?)
            However, your failure to address the “superior rights” afforded women since they obtained the vote(& sent the men off to war while they “managed” the country) with the 1919 19th has been noted.

          • sangrita

            https://appliedsentience. com/2013/07/19/a-global-historical-survey-does-accepting-homosexuality-lead-to-civilizational-ruin/

            Remove the space after the dot before the com.

            Societies benefit from homosexuality, they don’t die because of them.

          • Theophile

            A walk down memory lane, where homosexuality destroyed the destroying empires & their prey.

            There is ZERO(0) as in no benefit having homosexuality accepted in society… What does frequently fecal encountering gastrointestinal

            masturbation between two blokes shacking up for fornication do for society? Obviously it creates a DEMAND for these men to “NEED” adopt a little girl, or boy to “Shack up with”… right?

            I have read the Obama-Nation “man-date” that pre-teen school children be taught mutual masturbation & anal sex is natural & healthy…NEWSFLASH! Anyone including Mr Evolving Morally in the not-white-house, that thinks pre-teens need be instructed in anal sex … is a PEDOPHILE! What this means is homosexual acceptance = pedophilia nationwide, when an Evolving Morally emperor is in charge.

            BTW, I will have NO PROBLEM “fixing” any teacher that thinks to instruct my child in anal sex, because they are broken, just like a dog or cat taken to the vet to be fixed…. even if the pedophile has a badge, or is in charge of them like the homosexual Hoover & his Federal Booty Intimacy squad!

          • sangrita

            So you are clearly one of those delightful people to whom homosexuality has been reduced to a single sexual act. Which means you don’t know what lesbians are, since they don’t practice sodomy. Which also means you don’t know that straight people also engage in it. You simply don’t comprehend that people of the same sex can actually be in love with each other. All you want to talk about is rectums.

          • Theophile

            Keeping in mind that Mr. Science has defined “sex” to be “reproductive-oriented”…

            Feel free to describe this “intimate sexual union” that you(and all the other pro-sexual-confusion agenda personnel) claim two lesbians can enter into, that the sexually confused insist Christian artists in business special contract to create artwork in celebration of.

            Thus far EVERY ONE of the evolving morally & sexually confused pro-homosexuals have declined to defend the idea that two women can enter into any “intimate sexual union”… The ONLY answer thus far included plastic strap-on dildo’s, which does NOT create an intimate sexual union between the women.
            Please, we(Christian artists in business) are all ears to hear how two vaginas can enter into an “intimate sexual union”.

            BTW the ONLY two groups of people claiming heterosexual “straight” couples engage in anal sex(homosexual behavior) is: the porn industry, & the homosexuals.

          • sangrita

            The answer to your question is simple.
            Body parts do not fall in love. People do.
            And all your talk of rectums and vaginas illustrate that point better than anyone else ever could.
            You are obsessed with sex, and what people do with body parts. But interestingly, you’re only concerned with what they do with them if they are homosexual. I call that downright Freudian.
            No one’s “sexually confused”. When two people find a way to express love physically, they do it. No confusion.
            If you’re telling me that straight couples don’t engage in anal sex, I really have to wonder what planet you live on. I could find straight people BRAGGING about it with a 15-second Google search.
            But all of this is irrelevant – people fall in love, and sex is just one component of that love. As much as you want to call people names.

          • Theophile

            So in other words, what you are admitting is: there is no “intimate sexual union/consummation” of any marriage possible between two homosexuals or two lesbians.

            There is no name calling here, it is the phallic fixated & proud of it homosexuals on parade down main street USA in their six foot penis costumes that have made sure we(US & the world) know EXACTLY what homosexuality is all about.

            Why do the homosexuals & lesbians INSIST that Christian bakers, florists, & venue owners enter into special order contracts in celebration of this? It must be that either there just aren’t any homosexual artists in business baking cakes, or their peers have good reason to avoid them…right?

            Or is it just that court awarded dignity isn’t enough & homosexuals need lying Christians to assure them they aren’t an abomination to God with their actions?

          • sangrita

            “So in other words, what you are admitting is: there is no “intimate
            sexual union/consummation” of any marriage possible between two
            homosexuals or two lesbians.”

            No, I’m not admitting any such thing.

            Let’s look at what you wrote: Your first paragraph was intended to ridicule me. Of course consummation is possible.
            Your second paragraph was a generalization and stereotype of homosexuals (strictly male ones) who take part in pride parades. Yep, that really sums up all male homosexuals, they all want to dress up in six-foot phallic costumes. For every out and proud angry political gay man there are probably twelve who don’t have the slightest bit of desire for that kind of attention and would never dream of taking part in a pride parade and just want to live a quiet life free of hate.
            Your third paragraph seems to be suggesting that the beliefs of Christians and rules of that faith should take precedence over the laws which are in place so that bigots can’t turn people away from their public shops based on what they might imagine is going on in their bedrooms. Bakers, florists and venue owners, if serving the public, don’t have the right to turn their places of business into religious theocracies.

            In short, you’re a very angry person.

          • Theophile

            You make the claim “intimate sexual union/consummation” between two lesbians is possible, yet like all the sexually confused you cannot describe what is Obama-Nation-imagination based.

            & all the sexually confused lesbians & homosexuals were able to purchase ANY baked good over the counter on display at the Christian bakeries, it was just the special order personalized artistic message the Christian bakers declined, which leads to…:

            ## The first & foremost question that should be asked the homosexual & their enablers concerning“special order contracted works of art”, that are to be created specifically in
            celebration of a “special day” that supposedly only happens “ONCE” in a lifetime forbearing infidelity or mortal calamity …. In a supposed free market environment, in a nation enjoying the supposed inalienable liberty & freedom to individually contract of a
            sovereign electorate…is;

            “Why do you hate the individual liberty to contract with others without some welfare job creation bureaucrat dictating:

            # Who you will contract with…

            # What the terms of the contract will be…

            # Where you will satisfy the contracts terms..

            # Why you will celebrate anything the contract demands you celebrate…

            # and When you will deliver the special order bureaucratically defined
            “artwork” you promised under contract to deliver?

            ####
            Seriously, are we going to demand that rock & roll bands play country tunes? Or that violin Quartets jive talk City-Rap(c-rap) for gangster dates?

            ## Feel free to explain why you HATE the freedom & liberty of a sovereign electorate to agree with a contract before signing & being bound by it… Do you promote slavery with as much pride as mutual masturbation?

          • sangrita

            Another one who hasn’t gotten over Obergefell vs. Hodges.
            Throwing Obama into the conversation was a neat touch too.
            One final thing, you used the word HATE several times in your rather bizarre post. Looked in a mirror lately?

          • tempest

            He’s probably closeted, and considering his disdain for women probably has never been in a male / female relationship… Darwin wins.

          • tempest

            So how long you been single there Theo?

          • Theophile

            Want a stable relationship? … Get a horse!

          • tempest

            I’ve been happily married for thirty years but then I don’t think women are dogs and I treat mine with respect. .

          • Theophile

            I don’t think women are dogs either, & I also treat them with respect… But I had to quit hearkening to them as if they were my superior.

        • blue

          created everyone equal, are you nuts, not equal, but have equal legal rights

      • Sporkfighter

        The basis of Western democracy runs from Greece, land of slaveholders, militaristic and xenophobic to the core, through Great Britain with its kings, it’s Houses of Lords and its Commons, to the United States with its three fifths clause, slavery, white male property-owning franchise and its bloody war to end slavery.

        The idea that God created everyone equal is the basis of Western democracy is laughable. It was never anything more than a bone to throw to the peasants to keep them in line. “Yeah, life sucks for you farm boys, but it’ll be better after you’re dead.”

        • John_Eidsmoe

          President John Adams wrote, “Much as I love, esteem and admire the Greeks, I believe the Hebrews have done more to civilize the world. Moses did more than all their legislators and philosophers.”
          The primary source of Western republicanism is not Greece but Israel. In fact, the Hebrews were the source of much that is good about Greece. Clement of Alexandria said Moses was Plato’s ideal philosopher king.

      • tatoo

        I thought the basis for our democracy was Ancient Greece where they had lots of gods and goddesses.

    • blue

      not from me, i just would have used it instead of toilet paper

  • Nidalap

    Very ‘pro-choice’…so long as it’s theirs…

  • Ato Jon

    Come on atheists, are all of you 5 years old? Some people find comfort reading the Bible. If not, don’t read it! Are you afraid you’ll convert? It sure sounds like it! How about this, maybe we don’t want such hypersensitive people trying to proselytize us. So, do the logical thing and move to a country that had an atheistic government. According to you, that is the only rational kind. Fine. Just don’t forget to send a postcard from North Korea, Vietnam, China, Cuba, Laos, Albania, or whatever other hell hole your philosophy has helped create over and against this horrible country that you live in. Hypocritical…..5 year olds.

    • Theophile

      Yes, it seems the mere sight of a memorial cross, or knowing a Bible lurks in a drawer nearby is enough to threaten the FFRF resolve, & causes their easily indoctrinated minds to believe!O_o!
      …. OR, the FFRF thinks the electorate is too easily indoctrinated into believing idiotic hypothesis(like the one about dirt inventing life(evolution)), and they need to protect the easily manipulated electorate’s brains from believing by the mere sight of a cross or existence of a Bible within reach.

      • C_Alan_Nault

        Maybe these atheists don’t like reading such enlightening Bible passages as:

        2 Kings 18:27 But Rabshakeh said unto them, Hath my master sent me to thy master, and to thee, to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men which sit on the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?

        … that must be a really important passage, it’s repeated here:

        Isaiah 36:12 But Rabshakeh said, Hath my master sent me to thy master and to thee to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men that sit upon the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?

        Then there’s this example of god’s justice:

        David has sinned & to punish him god declares his wives ( plural) are to be rape in the street by his neighbors. David repents & asks for god’s forgiveness, god relents & instead of having his wives raped god instead kills David’s child.

        2 Samuel 12:11-14
        Thus says the Lord: ‘I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.’

        Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” Nathan answered David: “The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die.”

        • Theophile

          Your ability to rehearse free from thought cue cards is fabulous! .. Ability to understand what you read… questionable.
          I doubt the cowardly atheists would subject themselves to actual direct influence from The Bible, they already cower, writhe, & wallow at the mere sight of a cross & just knowing a Bible is in the drawer:

          • C_Alan_Nault

            “Ability to understand what you read… questionable.”

            If you think that’s the case, why don’t you enlighten me & explain the passage:

            Thus says the Lord: ‘I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.’

            Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” Nathan answered David: “The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die.”

          • C_Alan_Nault

            “I doubt the cowardly atheists would subject themselves to actual direct influence from The Bible, they already cower, writhe, & wallow at the mere sight of a cross & just knowing a Bible is in the drawer:”

            Ridiculous. Atheists would take the same action if the Torah, Koran, Hindu Veda, Book of Mormon, or any other book of myths was left in the room.

            If the hotl thinks providing Bibles is so important, all they have to do is have the Bibles behind their counter in the lobby & make them available to anyone that requests one.

            … on the other hand, if the bathroom in your room is out of toilet paper, it may be handy having a Bible nearby.

    • C_Alan_Nault

      If it was a private business, it wouldn’t be an issue. But the fact that these were at a public school’s hotel rooms means it isn’t allowed because of the Constitution.

      • Larry Rhodes

        Really bad misinterpretation on the Constitution!!! Unless you are a vampire or one of Satan’s minions, the Bible cannot hurt you, even if you touch it!!! This is not what our Forefathers meant by separation of church and state!!! This issue has nothing what so ever to do with the Constitution and if and when it ever gets to the Supreme Court, it will probably be dismissed for the shear stupidity of it!!!

        • C_Alan_Nault

          You believe vampires exist?

          It isn’t a matter of whether or not the Bible can hurt a person, it’s a matter of whether or not the Bibles are legally allowed to be placed there by the hotel.

          According to the Constitution, because the hotel is part of a public school, the Bibles can’t be placed there.

          If it was a private school, or a hotel not associated with a public school, or if someone staying at the hotel left the Bible there it wouldn’t be an issue.

          “This issue has nothing what so ever to do with the Constitution and if and when it ever gets to the Supreme Court, it will probably be dismissed for the shear stupidity of it!!!”

          $50 says you’re wrong.

          • Larry Rhodes

            It has nothing to do with the Constitution because the School did not place the Bibles there nor did they promote them nor did they maintain or provide upkeep on them!!! People hang flyers on store windows all the time but that does not make the stores responsible for the events they promote or the items they advertise!!! If someone steals something from the hotel rooms then the hotel charges the occupants credit card for the item but not if they take the Bible because it does not belong to the Hotel!!! This whole thing happens to be one of the stupidest arguments I have ever seen!!! If you don’t like the Bible don’t read it!!! Leave it in the drawer!!! Like I said, it cant hurt you!!! It wont rise up and kill you in your sleep or convert you!!!

          • C_Alan_Nault

            It has to do with the Constitution when a hotel chain is operating it’s business on a public facility’s property.

            There would likely be no complaint filed if, rather than having the Bibles placed in the rooms, a shelf containing so-called “sacred” books of all religions was in the lobby & the guests could decide what religious book they would like to take into their room & read.

          • Larry Rhodes

            There would still be complaints and you know it!!! They still have the “choice” to read or ignore with it in the night stand drawer!!! These people are just looking for ways to disrupt the AMERICAN way of life and ALL true Americans know it!!! Instead of wasting valuable time and resources on an issue as trivial as this, I can think of many more issues that are much more important and much more time sensitive that we should ALL be focused on!!!

          • C_Alan_Nault

            “These people are just looking for ways to disrupt the AMERICAN way of life and ALL true Americans know it!!! ”

            ALL true Americans KNOW that the Bible and Jesus are never mentioned anywhere in the Constitution.

      • C_Alan_Nault

        Peace and Jesus

  • Theophile

    The Cowardly Fools Fearing Religious Facts only target schools & small
    townships, because they are TOO Cowardly to take on ACTUAL establishments of
    religion by CONGRESS… Maybe their fearful intermeddlers didn’t catch the words
    “congress” in the first amendments prohibition of the establishment of religion
    at the federal level?

    ..Or perhaps these lawyers were indoctrinated by the Congressional established
    Darwinism & “free from thought” dirt worship in their public “science(wink
    wink)” education that excludes chemistry, physics, & reality as prerequisite to “belief in evolution’s unproven theory”, before they decided to go with “opinions of man” as a career?

    &
    what of those “other” religious symbols & things on public land?

    Like the giant graven goddess ISIS renamed liberty in NY’s harbor … Or The national obelisk(a phallic religious symbol from antiquity) overlooking the temple to fallen Abraham, the freer of the slaves in DC?..

    Are the cowardly FFRF lawyers that myopic in their hatred of Christianity that the simple words of the US founders are beyond their mental ability to comprehend?:

    They seem to know more about the constitution than it’s “father”, too bad the cowardly FFRF wasn’t around to tell James what he believed:

    “We have staked the whole future of our new nation, not upon the power of government; far from it. We have staked the future of all our political constitutions upon the capacity of each of ourselves to govern ourselves according to the moral principles of the Ten Commandments.”– James Madison

    “It is the duty of every man to render to the Creator such homage, and such only, as he believes to be acceptable to him. This duty is precedent both in order of time and degree of obligation, to the claims of Civil Society. Before any man can be considered as a member of Civil Society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governor of the Universe”. June 20, 1785 – James Madison

    “Because we hold it for a fundamental and undeniable truth, “that Religion or the duty which we owe to our Creator and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only be reason and convection, not by force or violence.” The Religion then of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every man: and it is the right of every man to exercise it as these may dictate.” 1785 James Madison

    “The belief in a God All Powerful wise and good, is so essential to the moral order of the world and to the happiness of man, that arguments which enforce it cannot be drawn from too many sources nor adapted with too much solicitude to the different characters and capacities impressed with it.” November 20 1825 Madison

    I wonder if the Fools Fearing Religious Facts considered the staff of Aesculapius(the god of medicine & healing), just like a cross on a church, is a religious symbol … adorning all the temples where ONLY the government religion approved document/degree holders are allowed to practice his rites.. & now “mandated by congress” to pay annual veneration/alms to, via Obama-Nation-Care? … Probably not as I wager they all “have faith in & believe” Congress can insure health, as they believe they were invented by dirt.

    ### Please.. any free from thought believers in blank want to become surety for & defend the FFRF on this(or ANY other thread) against my claims… feel free to do so as the cowardly Fools Fearing Religious Facts(FFRF) certainly will not!

    • John_Eidsmoe

      The “cowards” are not the atheists; the cowards are the school board members and other government officials who cave in to the atheists’ demands. Groups like the FFRF send all sorts of threatening letters to government officials telling public mention of God is unconstitutional, but they ignore what the Constitution says and tell you what they wish the Constitution said.
      Lighten up! Nothing in the Constitution guarantees that I will never have to be exposed to anything I disagree with. The Marriott commonly places the Book of Mormon along with the Bible in its rooms. As a Lutheran I don’t accept the Book of Mormon, but its presence in my room doesn’t offend me in the least. Nor would I be offended by the presence of the Koran, the Bhagivad Gita, or books of other religions. I appreciate that people are concerned for my spiritual well-being, even if I disagree with them.
      At a government institution the legal issues may be different, but even there, the Book’s presence in a drawer for my convenience is not threatening or coercive and is not a constitutional violation.

      • Theophile

        Hi John,

        Okay, I see your point & will meet you half way to agree:

        The FFRF “AND” the school boards & small municipalities that cave to their demands, are “BOTH” cowardly.

        Personally I would like to see this make it to court and have a judge hit the FFRF with a frivolous lawsuit charge & as much contempt fines & defendant court costs as the law allows.

    • Bob Johnson

      Small point – the national obelisk is the George Washington Memorial. The Lincoln Memorial is the Greek style building at the far end of The Mall.

      Also, lots of nice quotes, but they all came from one person, James Madison; so all you have proven is that one of the founders was a believer.

  • hytre64

    Instead of removing the Bibles – If they had allowed the same access to other religious groups to put a book of equal size into the room, it would not have violated anything – AND it would have truly irritated the “Freedom From Religion” crowd.

    I have seen, for example, some Marriot Hotel rooms that have both the Bible and the Book of Mormon.

    • King Arthropod Pendragonfly

      No, the FFRF would have just donated books on atheism.

      • hytre64

        As long as they were the same size as the Gideon Bible, I wouldn’t have a problem with it. The FFRF, though, really appears to have a problem with any expression of religious faith, even if it is as innocuous as having a Bible on your desk, having a religious quote in your cubicle or having Bible available for reading.

        • King Arthropod Pendragonfly

          Same size? What? That’s ridiculous.

          The FFRF, though, really appears to have a problem with any expression of religious faith, even if it is as innocuous as having a Bible on your desk, having a religious quote in your cubicle or having Bible available for reading.

          Only if your office space is part of the government.

          • hytre64

            If you are allowed personal items (such as books) on your [government] desk, then the content of the personal item (as long is it is not illegal) is irrelevant, as the government should be neutral to whether or not an particular employee has or does not have a religious ideology.

          • King Arthropod Pendragonfly

            If you are allowed personal items (such as books) on your [government] desk, then the content of the personal item (as long is it is not illegal) is irrelevant, as the government should be neutral to whether or not an particular employee has or does not have a religious ideology.

            Which you can put in a drawer. There’s no reason why it needs to be on the desk.

            The reason that I specified same size, is so that one group does not force the hotel chain to house the collected works of all contemporary atheist authors in each room, in order to allow one bible.

            Why weren’t you so concerned about a bible taking up more space compared to the empty space every other religious view got?

          • hytre64

            (A) if the rules allow for ANY personal items on the desk, then it should be neutral as to the contents of that item – whether it is a picture of your wife, a book of poetry or the Bible.

            (B) You will note that I said they were free to fill up an equivalent “empty” space given to every other religious view, provided that that space was filled by voluntary donation. If you prefer, we could set the standard space by % of the population claiming that particular belief (70% nominal Christian, 3 % atheist, 3% agnostic, 2% Jewish, 1.6% Mormon 0.9% Muslim). :-}

          • King Arthropod Pendragonfly

            You may have noticed that it’s always bibles that are put in first, and “equality” seems to come only when people like the FFRF point out the inequality.

          • hytre64

            The reason for that (especially in public hotel rooms) is that 70% of Americans claim to be Christian (and hotels like to make their majority customers happy) AND that the Gideons have been around since 1899 giving away free Bibles, so they have made inroads where Americans actually expect there to be a Gideon Bible inside the hotel nightstand.

          • King Arthropod Pendragonfly

            I and the FFRF expect our government to not play religious favoritism.

  • The Skeptical Chymist

    A better solution would be for the hotel to set up a small area of the lobby as a lending library, complete with multiple copies of the Bible, the Koran, the Book of Mormon, The God Delusion, along with novels and other reading materials. People would have a much wider choice available, and I bet many individuals would be willing to donate books to this cause.

  • Larry Velasco

    Just don’t go to that motel or quit going to college there. WE have to take a stand whether it be peaceful or VIOLENT. They only seem to understand VIOLENCE. SOO??????

  • David Fisher

    Their argument is like saying that because 1% of the people are vegans that we have to close all the hamburger joints in the nation. The people at the hotel are simply providing a book that will bring the greatest amount of comfort to the greatest amount of people. Yes that is like free market. Is it the establishment of a national religion, NO. Do they have a legitimate case. No. They merely want to force their opinions on others who do not think or feel the same. Which is what the establishment of all our laws tries to prevent.

    • King Arthropod Pendragonfly

      No, their argument is that a hotel run by the government cannot promote religion.

      • David Fisher

        Why is the government running a hotel in the first place?

        • King Arthropod Pendragonfly

          From an article entitled “HOTEL ASSET MANAGEMENT FOR COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES”

          Colleges and Universities develop on-campus lodging facilities for a variety of reasons. Some of the more common goals include providing:
          an enhanced visitor experience;
          a facility to house and entertain potential donors;
          a catalyst for revitalizing a local area; and
          support of other internal interests (e.g. executive development programs or hospitality management curricula).
          Profitability can sometimes be at the bottom of the list, if it makes the list at all.

          Plus, some universities have them for an influx of visitors during graduations and football/baseball/sports in general.

          Why do you ask?

          • David Fisher

            Just seems like a business that would be better off being run by free market persons rather than government employees.

      • Larry Rhodes

        Their argument is bullshit!!! They are using intimidation and fear tactics!!! The university just does not want the negative publicity a lawsuit would bring nor do they want to spend the money it would cost!!! No one is “promoting” religion here!!! Its the same thing as if the girl scouts put a flyer in the window of a café announcing that their cookie sale is going on!!! The café is not promoting anything!!! They are just allowing the girl scouts a small space to do their own promoting!!! If the FFRF had a pamphlet or book promoting their own stupid views they could put them right beside the bible but that is not what they want!!! They just don’t want anyone reading the real truth!!!

        • King Arthropod Pendragonfly

          Their argument is bullshit!!! They are using intimidation and fear tactics!!!

          Multiple exclamation points don’t make your statements true.

          US government facilities, including hotels owned by state universities, can’t promote religion.

          No one is “promoting” religion here!!!

          Of course they are.

          If the FFRF had a pamphlet or book promoting their own stupid views they could put them right beside the bible but that is not what they want!!! They just don’t want anyone reading the real truth!!!

          There’s your real motive — you WANT the government to push your religion, because you think it’s the truth. That’s why it needed to be stopped.

          • Larry Rhodes

            The school nor the hotel puts the Bibles there!!! They are placed there by the Gideons, they maintained by the Gideons, and if someone takes them they are replaced by the Gideons!!! The school nor the hotel nor the government has anything to do with it!!! They don’t even charge your credit card if you take one!!! But if you take anything else from the room they will charge you in a heartbeat!!! This is because they don’t own the Bibles and are not responsible for them!!! And I don’t THINK its the TRUTH, I KNOW its the TRUTH!!! And as for the multiple exclamation points, that is from nerve damage caused from being blown up and when I extend my pinkie it spasms as if it was any of your damn business!!!

          • King Arthropod Pendragonfly

            The school nor the hotel puts the Bibles there!!! They are placed there by the Gideons

            Only with permission from the school. As a public college, they can’t promote religion like that.

            The school nor the hotel nor the government has anything to do with it!!!

            Uh, then how did they get removed?

  • Nedd Kareiva

    Interesting how the FFRF virtually never identifies these so-called “offended” individuals, likely because they don’t exist but FFRF won’t “show their hand”. They need to be called out and even investigated because it’s quite possible the ones offended are their “leaders” in Annie Laurie Gaylor & Dan “Carnival” Barker. I daresay that is no legitimate “complainant” in this case (and most others).

    Also interesting are FFRF’s silly claims that leaving Bibles in hotel rooms constitutes an endorsement of religion. Jews read the Bible as much as Christians do and I daresay Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus & Sikhs staying at lodging facilities somewhere across the country have from time to time picked up the Gideon Bibles in the rooms they have stayed in. This demonstrates the enormous hostility the FFRF legal thugs possess towards the existence of a Bible anywhere is highly breathtaking. Even the ACLU doesn’t go as far as the FFRF in its hatred of anything remotely religious. The FFRF awaits a major countersuit from some group for its frivolous threats and claims. The question is who will be the first with the cojones to do so.

    • Larry Rhodes

      If I had the money it would be me!!!

  • Becky

    “If a state-run university has a policy of providing a Christian religious text to guests, that policy facilitates illegal endorsement of Christianity over other religions and over non-religion,” the letter, written by attorney Madeline Ziegler, read. “Permitting members of outside religious groups the privilege of placing their religious literature in public university guest rooms also constitutes state endorsement and advancement of religion.”

    Rubbish. Where is it stated that the state-run uni is preferring Christianity over other religions or no religion? No where. Where is it stated that the uni isn’t allowing any other forms of religious texts? No where. However, you lot are demanding no religion over religion, period. Last I checked that is against the USC.

  • Becky

    “Anyone zealous enough to need the Bible as bedtime reading will travel with one,” said Co-President Annie Laurie Gaylor in a statement. “The rest of us paying guests seek a vacation from proselytizing when we’re on vacation. What is offensive at private hotels and motels, however, becomes unconstitutional at public-supported rooms.”

    Oh, rubbish. A bible in a chest of drawers is hardly proselytising. Guess their “freethinker” minds are unable to comprehend that no one is forcing them to take the bible out of the chest of drawers and read it.

  • Keith

    Throughout the first century of our counties existence, Christianity was enshrined in the law as the official religion of the United States of America and there is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits official religion laws. The USA were founded by Christian people in Christian states to be a Christian nation. However, the states did not all agree on which form (denomination) was correct Christianity. Massachusetts official religion was Congregational Church. Several states were officially Anglican or Church of England. One or two states were officially Baptist. And, the state that is named after Mary the Mother of Jesus was officially a Roman Catholic State. Christianity was too important to the states to risk losing it. The states were not going to ratify the Constitution without some protection of their official religions. The ‘establishment clause’ was the guarantee that each state would be free to choose it’s own official religion. That’s why the clause says ‘The congress (but not state legislatures) will make no law respecting the establishment of a religion. The ‘establishment clause’ only prohibits acts of Congress. The last official religion law in the United States of America was repealed in the 1880s. This Abolishing the Freedom of Religion Foundation is a group of utterly evil Anti-American, Anti Freedom Commu-Nazi’s. They are EVIL!

    • Bob Johnson

      Actually Maryland is named after Queen Henrietta Maria
      http://msa.maryland dot gov/msa/mdmanual/01glance/html/name.html
      replace “ dot “ with “.”

    • Larry Rhodes

      Several of our founding fathers did not believe in God!!! Cant remember which ones but there were several, including a couple of our first presidents!!!

    • King Arthropod Pendragonfly

      You really WANT to go back to states having official religions paid for with taxes? You want to go back to where Quakers were hanged in Boston for being the “wrong” religion?

      I prefer religious freedom. You seem to be advocating religious oppression.

    • C_Alan_Nault

      “Christianity was enshrined in the law as the official religion of the United States of America”

      Which government documents state this?

  • http://www.bing.com/ Martin Smit

    I think these atheists are actually vampires. It turns out that they really are scared of Bibles.

    • C_Alan_Nault

      Actually, atheists probably wouldn’t have an issue with it as long as the hotel also provided copies of every other religion’s books, as well as books on atheism.

      • http://www.bing.com/ Martin Smit

        That’s what I used to think, until I noticed that there are only certain books that bother them. That is when I realized they are vampires.

        • C_Alan_Nault

          I don’t know what’s funnier, that you believe in god or that you believe in vampires.

          • http://www.bing.com/ Martin Smit

            Believing in vampires is better than believing in people that don’t believe in anything but still fear books about God. I wonder if they are hyper sensitive to sunlight under all that gothic make-up …

          • C_Alan_Nault

            I’ve never met anyone who didn’t believe in anything… and I doubt you have.

            Can you point out an atheist saying they fear books about any god ( or goddess)? Or are you only stating another belief you have that you can present no evidence for?

          • http://www.bing.com/ Martin Smit

            I don’t believe in atheists, but I can point out that vampires fear the Bible. This tells me that the complainants are not those mythical atheists that fear no book, but actually vampires (who fear almost everything). Besides, the Bible says nasty things about them, like I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

          • C_Alan_Nault

            You should stay on your meds.

          • C_Alan_Nault

            I believe in God now.

          • C_Alan_Nault

            If it isn’t obvious to people reading the posts, a dishonest lying Christian is posting under my name & with the same avatar.

  • disqus_MZe2ymfHQj

    IF this university is anti- Christian in their actions , then no Christian should do business with them.
    Let the atheist have it.

  • Eileen Dennis

    The word of God would save many lives pepole who want to commit suicide people get saved the devil has a short time he is trying all he can so pepole don’t here the word of God so he can take all he can with him to hell

  • 1riely1

    Ok remove the bibles. I am ok with that as long as you remove the TV guide, tourist destination brochures and last but not least all the menus ( they contribute to obesity and heart disease ). Oh and remove the bedspreads ( cause I don’t like the color ), remove the carpet ( it is ugly ) and best of all remove the flipping atheist organizations that think they are better than Christians.

  • tatoo

    There is so much pornography in the bible, that it definitely should not be allowed in rooms, especially where there might be children present.

  • Ginger

    These people have nothing better to do. They hate God so much
    they will look for any piece of Him they can to remove it from their sight.
    That is too bad, but their choice. That is their religion hate God He knows the hearts and minds of people. He will not force anyone to love Him. I feel sorry for the Gideon Society that put these New Testaments by the bedside in hotel/motels where people have a choice to look at them through no cost to the individual picking it up.

    The Occult World Peace Plan | The United Nations | Lucis Trust
    Proponents of world peace claim that humanity is moving into the New Age of the World. This
    new age movement allegedly and transition into a new era for society; a time of peace, joy and harmony among the citizens of the world.

    This new age utopia includes the formation of a new religion – the religion of the New Age.
    But the new age religion is not a religion. It can best be described as spiritual humanism because it involves the creation of a spiritual system that does not worship the God of the Bible. Instead, the ‘god’ of the new age spiritual movement is Lucifer.

    This new one world religion preaches tolerance. It is tolerant of every religion except
    Christianity. Every Christian needs to know about the not so secret agenda of the peace movement. Everything that is happening was foretold in the Bible, but their are few really standing to sound the trumps of warning.

  • blue

    any non violent group, who does not support overthrow of the United States, should be permitter to place literature in the rooms. and the guests should be free to throw them in the trash, to express themselves. I am not religious, but i support the rights of others, even members of cults such as Islam, to make their case.

  • C_Alan_Nault

    A study by Georgetown said that 73% of Atheists are gay.

    • Bob Johnson

      Hi Not_C_Alan_Nault. Even if true, what does this Georgetown study have to do with Bibles in college hotel rooms in Arizona?

      • Jolanda Tiellemans

        Did you tell the real one that his identity was stolen?

        • Bob Johnson

          Yes, nine days ago when I first noticed it.

  • sammy13

    Might want to remove telephone directories. The yellow pages in most major cities are full of phone numbers and addresses for adult clubs, escort services, massage parlors, etc. If the truth and the Word of God has ben declared offensive, can information that leads to corruption be no less offensive?