Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore at ‘Gay Marriage’ Ethics Trial: ‘I Don’t Encourage Anyone to Defy a Court Order’

Moore-pdMONTGOMERY, Ala. — Suspended Alabama Supreme Court Chief Justice Roy Moore took the stand during his ethics hearing on Wednesday, telling those gathered that he never told probate judges in the state to defy the United States Supreme Court’s opinion on “gay marriage.”

“I don’t encourage anyone to defy a federal court or state court order,” Moore stated, remarking that it is “ridiculous” to believe otherwise. “I gave them a status in the case, a status of the facts that these orders exist. That is all I did.”

He said that he sent a memo to his colleagues at the Alabama Supreme Court, which had issued an order in March 2015 halting the issuance of same-sex licenses in the state apart from Moore, urging them to provide guidance in light of the federal Obergefell decision.

When they did not, he released a memo in January advising judges about the status quo until the court issues instructions as requested.

His attorney, Mat Staver with Liberty Counsel, outlined the same in speaking during the trial, remarking that the Alabama Supreme Court had left probate judges hanging in their confusion over whether to issue licenses or not.

“The Alabama Supreme Court had the case pending about what to do with the federal orders and they did not rule on it,” he explained.

Staver said the crux of the matter is whether or not Moore’s memo should be considered an order. He contended Moore’s document was “more like a status report.”

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As previously reported, Moore had written in his Jan. 6 memo, “I am not at liberty to provide any guidance to Alabama probate judges on the effect of Obergefell on the existing orders of the Alabama Supreme Court. That issue remains before the entire court, which continues to deliberate on the matter.”

But on Wednesday, Ashby Pate, an attorney with the Judicial Inquiry Commission (JIC), told the Court of the Judiciary (JIC) that Moore “urged defiance, not compliance, for defying a decision already settled by the U.S. Supreme Court.”

“We are here 13 years later because the chief justice has learned nothing,” also asserted lead prosecutor John Carroll, referring to Moore’s removal from the bench in 2003 for refusing to stop acknowledging God.

A number of Moore’s supporters gathered outside of the Alabama Supreme Court during the trial, preaching, praying and holding signs. Those opposing Moore also stood outside of the building, some with the “Magic City Sisters,” who painted their faces white and wore costumes.

A decision is expected within 10 days.

As previously reported, Moore was suspended from the bench in May and now faces possible removal after the homosexual advocacy groups Southern Poverty Law Center, People for the American Way, the Human Rights Campaign, and a drag queen who goes by the name Ambrosia Starling, pressed the JIC to take action against Moore.

The situation began in 2013 when two lesbians in the state sued Gov. Robert Bentley, Attorney General Luther Strange and Mobile County Probate Judge Don Davis—among others—in an attempt to overturn Alabama’s marriage amendment after one of the women was denied from adopting the other woman’s child.

In January 2015, U.S. District Judge Ginny Granade ruled in favor of the women, prompting Moore to send a memo to probate judges throughout the state, advising that they are not required to issue “marriage” licenses to same-sex couples as he believed that Grenade’s ruling only applied to the two women.

Moore also wrote a letter to Gov. Robert Bentley, urging him to “uphold and support the Alabama Constitution with respect to marriage, both for the welfare of this state and for our posterity.”

“Be advised that I will stand with you to stop judicial tyranny and any unlawful opinions issued without constitutional authority,” he stated.

The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) then filed a judicial ethics complaint against Moore over his letter to Gov. Bentley, and the homosexual activist group Human Rights Campaign (HRC) submitted 28,000 petition signatures to the JIC calling for Moore’s removal.

As confusion ensued over Moore’s letter to probate judges, one judge, John Enslen of Elmore County, asked the full Alabama Supreme Court for further guidance. In March 2015, six of the nine judges of the Alabama Supreme Court released a historic order halting the issuance of same-sex “marriage” licenses in the state. Moore recused himself from the matter and was not included in the order.

“As it has done for approximately two centuries, Alabama law allows for ‘marriage’ between only one man and one woman,” the 148-page order read. “Alabama probate judges have a ministerial duty not to issue any marriage license contrary to this law. Nothing in the United States Constitution alters or overrides this duty.”

Three months after the Alabama Supreme Court issued its order, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Obergefell v. Hodges. The Alabama court did not immediately lift its order following the ruling as it took time sorting through the matter.

Therefore, in January, Moore sent another letter advising that the full court’s remained in effect until it issued directives in light of the U.S. Supreme Court ruling in Obergefell.

“Until further decision by the Alabama Supreme Court, the existing orders of the Alabama Supreme Court that Alabama probate judges have a ministerial duty not to issue any marriage license contrary to the Alabama Sanctity of Marriage Amendment or the Alabama Marriage Protection Act remain in full force and effect,” he wrote on Jan. 6.

But he also noted that his memo did not weigh in on how June’s U.S. Supreme Court ruling has impact on the Alabama Supreme Court’s directive, and said that it was not his place to make that determination. In March, the court finally issued its opinions on the matter, dismissing all outstanding cases before the bench.

In May, the Alabama Judicial Inquiry Commission (JIC) announced that it had filed ethics charges against Moore, and suspended the chief justice while he faces a trial before the Alabama Court of the Judiciary.

“He says that the orders that the Alabama Supreme Court issued in March of 2015 are still outstanding, and the Alabama Supreme Court is going to review those, which they are, and make a decision, which they did—later, in March,” Moore’s attorney said during a hearing last month. “That’s all he said. And for that, they ultimately charged him with advocating open defiant disobedience to the entire judiciary, beginning with the United States Supreme Court and on down.”


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  • uninvitedguest

    Hopefully, he will be removed permanently this time.

    • Michael C

      …or the good people of Alabama don’t care about judicial ethics and they’ll just vote him back in.

      • SFBruce

        If Moore survives this, his current term will end in 2018, at which time he’ll be too old to seek re-election to the Alabama Supreme Court. No such restriction exists on candidates for the governorship, an office he’s indicated a desire to hold.

  • Michael C

    I don’t understand. This article quotes Moore instructing magistrates to defy the U.S. Constitution.

    “… probate judges have a ministerial duty not to issue any marriage license contrary to the Alabama Sanctity of Marriage Amendment or the Alabama Marriage Protection Act remain in full force and effect,”

    Moore instructed state agencies to defy the U.S. Constitution.

    What more is there to say?

    • Grace Kim Kwon

      It’s SCOTUS that defiled US Constitution.

      • Michael C

        Nothing you’ve said is relevant to the fact that Roy Moore instructed magistrates to defy a very clear Supreme Court decision.

        • Florenca Mcdowell

          the supreme court is made of mortals. GOD IS THE SUPREME JUDGE. GAY LIFESTYLE IS A PERVERSION.

      • Jason Carrier

        “Now be it known, That I John Adams, President of the United States of America, having seen and considered the said Treaty do, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, accept, ratify, and confirm the same, and every clause and article thereof. And to the End that the said Treaty may be observed, and performed with good Faith on the part of the United States, I have ordered the premises to be made public; And I do hereby enjoin and require all persons bearing office civil or military within the United States, and all other citizens or inhabitants thereof, faithfully to observe and fulfill the said Treaty and every clause and article thereof.

        Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion”

        • Grace Kim Kwon

          John Adams didn’t want any particular denomination to dominate American Christianity. George Washington said the nation of America is Christian. Declaration of Independence declares Americans only submit to God.

          • Bobby G. Hunsaker

            Whose God? The words Christ, Christian, nor God appear nowhere in the Declaration. Instead, the only mention of any sort of higher power is of a “Creator.” Makes sense, considering Jefferson and several other Founders weren’t Christians.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            All of the Founding Fathers were Christian-educated if not genuine Christian converts. The Europeans and Americans knew no other gods but the God of the Holy Bible as their one true living God. American Founders took everything noble from the Holy Bible and from the Christian British. They invented not a thing; you don’t realize a thing because you never read the Holy Bible and are Non-American.

          • Jason Carrier

            “Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise.”
            James Madison — Letter to Wm. Bradford, April 1, 1774

            “And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.”
            Thomas Jefferson to John Adams

            “I looked around for God’s judgments, but saw no signs of them.”
            Ben Franklin

            “Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst.”
            Thomas Paine

            “This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.”
            John Adams

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            They were talking about Roman Catholism. The Founding Fathers were all Protestant Christian. They said it’s impossible to govern USA without Christianity and prayed in the name of Jesus.

          • Jason Carrier

            Not one Founding Father said that and they were talking about ALL Religions

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are mis-educated. Read their books and letters instead of your favorite few lines out of the context. Founding Fathers held Biblical principles as the Holy Bible educated them. You didn’t notice anything because your are illietrate on the Holy Bible and have no idea in the Origin. The Westerners would have no civility or literacy if they had no Christianity and USA wouldn’t have existed if the West had no Bible. America’s virtues and the sense of honor and fairness are all from the Holy Bible and the Christian Britain.

          • Peter Blaise

            .
            Help me understand how Christian “civility” wiped out 500 nations of Native American “Red Skins” ( who had already “discovered” the Americas ten-to-twenty-thousands years ago ) …
            .

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Those were not nations. Everyone was fighting against everyone else at that time in America. Go back to your European caves so that the Native Americans can have America back. America belongs to the Mongoloids.

          • Peter Blaise

            .
            Study the Algonquian federation much?
            .

          • Florenca Mcdowell

            So who is the God who is the Creator? Buddha, Allah, Oh I know it was the BIG BANG GOD? GOOGLE:
            CHARTERS OF FREEDOM, you will find the Declaration of Independence, The Mayflower Compact and the Constitution. Jefferson, Franklin ALL SPOKE OF A “DIVINE CREATOR AND SOME OTHERS USED THE WORD GOD. I AM ASSUMING YOU ARE AN ATHEISTS SINCE YOU CANNOT IDENTIFY “THE CREATOR” SPOKEN OF IN THESE DOCUMENTS.
            JOHN ADAMS: in a speech to the military in 1798 WARNED his fellow countrymen stating, “We have no government armed with the power capable of CONTENDING WITH HUMAN PASSIONS “UNBRIDALED”
            BY by MORALITY and RELIGION… our Constitution was MADE ONLY FOR MORAL AND “RELIGIOUS” PEOPLE IT IS INADEQUATE TO THE GOVERNMENT OF any other( LBGT) fit this description IF YOU CANNOT UNDRSTAND WHO THE CREATOR IS I SUGGEST YOU TRY BEFORE YOU ARE JUDGED BY GOD UPON YOUR DEATH.

          • Jason Carrier

            the Christian God is never mentioned in the Declaration.
            The Founding Fathers did not want any Religion to dominate.

        • Florenca Mcdowell

          Read Declaration of Independence: Second Paragraph:
          We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their CREATOR with certain unalienable rights, etc. NOW JUST WHO IS THE CREATOR? MAN?
          John Adams: in a speech to the military in 1798 WARNED his fellow countrymen stating, We have no government armed
          with power capable of contending with “HUMAN PASSIONS,” UNBRIDLED BY MORALITY AND RELIGION.
          Our Constitution was made ONLY FOR A MORAL AND RELIGIOUS PEOPLE. IT (Constitution) is wholly INADEQUATE to the government of any other. i.e. gov. we now have.
          John Jay: original Chief Justice of US S.C. said “The Bible is the best of all books, for it is the word of God and teaches us the way to be happy in this world and in the next. Continue therefore to read it and regulate your life by its precepts.
          James Wilson: Signer of Const. & US Supreme Ct Justice said. “Human law must rest its authority upon the authority of that law which is DIVINE…Far from the being rivals Or enemies, RELIGION AND LAW ARE TWIN SISTERS, FRIENDS, AND MUTUAL ASSISTANTS. INDEED THESE 2 SCIENCES RUN INTO EACH OTHER. Google quotes of the founding fathers the importance of a Moral Society you will find the above quotes and MORE. Google the MAYFLOWER COMPACT. I COULD NOT FIND AN ARTICLE 11 IN CONSTITUTION. GOOGLE, THE CHARTER READ OUR FOUNDING DOCUMENTS, GOD, GREATER AND DIVINE POWER WERE THE ‘PRINCIPLES THIS COUNTRY WAS INDEED FOUNDED ON.
          Corruption have overtaken our Gov. and people like you have perverted the relationship of one man and one woman which is God’s Design and abortion anytime for any reason for all. People who support these things will be judged heavily by GOD

          • Jason Carrier

            Declaration has nothing to do with our Laws or how this Country was founded.
            However, if you notice Creator is nondenominational, there is no one Religion tied to it. Also later in the Declaration the Fathers make mention of “Natures God” which is historically a Pagan term (again meant to be non-denominational and tied to no one Religion)

      • Jack7

        This is the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. I don’t know what’s worse, your ignorance or the zeal with which you profess it.

        • Grace Kim Kwon

          America was good only because of Christianity. USA is a mere playboy if it has no Christianity, as a man without his conscience is worthless. American fathers wanted a good son, not a mentally ill addict who bullies the Christians for rejecting depraved sexual immorality. You guys were normal only when you adhered Christianity instead of attacking it.

          • Jack7

            And my last statement is already invalidated. If only I could believe you were faking it.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Too many Non-Americans in USA nowadays. The sons who humiliate their fathers should get kicked out of USA.

          • Jack7

            I’m beginning to think you’re faking it. No one is this fucking stupid.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            She is, believe me she is.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Uhm, newsflash, all citizens of the US are non-Americans. The only true citizens of the US are the Native Americans.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Is that what you do in your country? Kick out the sons that humiliate their fathers? How Christian of you.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are wrong. Native Americans never had a nationhood; they are not to be called “American” anyway( the Europeans named the continents America), and they were just tribes with no nationhood. If you are right in any sense, there are no Europeans or no Asians or no Africans; only native Europeans and native Asians and native Africans on earth. But who are they? Every human on earth is a migrant and a descendant of migrants. Tribes kept moving, big tribes sucking the smaller ones; in USA it just happened recently instead of a while ago.

            You too need to move out from where you live right now to give way to the natives. Your land had older residents, too, although they moved in from somewhere else as well. Read Genesis ch.1-12. The creators of the nationhood are important. Every culture has excommunication systems for wayward unworthy descendants. Those who disrespect Mayflower Compact or the American anthems and the flags or the Declaration of Independence should move out of USA, as they wish. If you disrespect your own parents, you don’t inherit the land. Simple.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Where in my comment do I say anything about native americans?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Five comments above.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Five comments above and you answer a comment where it isn’t even mentioned? Ooookay!

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            The land belongs to God. You guys should all move out of the USA if the Native Americans are really very important to you as you claim. Liberals are guilty in two ways. They slander the white Christian pioneering creators of the European nations and USA who are the sole reason that all the descendants and immigrants and the natives are better-off and well-fed. The liberals wail for the natives but they never plan to move out of the region and threaten everyone with the despicable immorality, making the land corrupt with depravity.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            I live in europe. The natives are better off? Right! Do you watch the news? You heard or read about the NA protest against the oil pipeline. They destroyed NA burial and culture sites. And let’s not forget wounded knee. And there is more like that. From the first time Columbus set foot on American soil, the europeans exploided the NA, took their land and put them in reservations. Oh yeah everything is so much better for them now.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            They were fighting against each other always and the discovery of America was a matter of time. It would have been truly disasterous horrible for them if the domination was done by the Nazis or the Communists. The English are the best tribe among the mankind for any Earthling to have domination by. If you are a European living in Europe, then you are one of the natives whom the Church rescued from barbarism and made civilized long time ago. Be thankful. The English established lawfulness and order and literacy everywhere they went and created several nations for all Earthlings to come and be happy later. Stop being selfish. You Western liberals just want all Non-Westerners to stay illiterate and powerless always and for-ever. Thankfully the West was not perv like now when it conquered the world. The Church is the one who truly loves mankind and brought charity and education and medicine to all.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            So you admit that the Christians dominated those who where a lesser human being a barbaric? You do realise that those Christians then are the same as the Nazi’s and the communists, right? They too wanted to dominate others, telling them what to believe, controlling other people’s lives. Not very Christian if you ask me.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Everyone wants to dominate someone or something if not everything, always everywhere on Planet Earth. Wake up, Jolanda; humanists have no clue on human nature and are full of errors. Biblical Christians alone can bring sane morality and fairness and safety and liberty to all people on top of God’s life-saving vital truth. Dominance by any others only causes crimes against humanity one way or another on Planet Earth. That’s why the Western civilization was superior and the Christian USA brought the copies of the Holy Bible and fairness and freedom and civility and lawfulness into the world without being interfered by foreign elements. They sorted things out on their own and did what is right, unlike any pagan regions. No imports except for learning from the Holy Bible on the one true glorious God and on life’s sanctity and humanity’s dignity. Now the West’s Sodomic inclination is undoing all the great contributions. Sad.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            So you want all Christians to have the right to dominate the none Christians? So you want the same as in your country a dictatorship? So you are a fundamentalist Christian?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            That’s the only way for the West and the world to retain the truth, equality, liberty and justice for all. There is no other way. All others produce massive number of innocent victims one way or another. Western Sodom’s tyranny is the worst one because it destroys children’s morality; it truly erases off everyone’s future. I’m a born-again Evangelical fundamental Christian. No one can stop you from having a sinful lifestyle, but you have no right to make anyone treat the sinful living as marriage or make anyone endorse/serve the same-sex wedding regardless the laws of the land. It is a violation against human rights and the God-given liberty that cannot be countered by any humans or man-made institutions.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            So you want a dictatorship? Wow, you really are a child of your country. Putting people in prison when they won’t convert to your religion? Putting people in prison when they want a abortion? Putting people in prison when they are LGBT? Cause you realis that is what they are doing to people in a country with dictatorship, right? And then you will have the same thing you are so loud about, violation of human rights. But I guess as a fundemantalist Christian you could get away with it, right? Nice Christian you are. Gladly it will never happen here or they will have WW3 on their hands.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            The West needs Judeo-Christian value’s dominance, or the Sodomites will have the distatorship. It’s happening already. Conversion is by individual’s free will. Unwanted pregnancy will be given maximum support except killing the conceived child. LGBT will be given certain rights but not the title of marriage or access to children. My countries are suffering from atheism like yours. Atheists are dictators by nature. Human rights are Christian West’s invention. Your region will vanish from childlessness but the West should not hurt other people’s descendants by enforcing abnormal immorality. “Separation of church and state” never meant “separation of conscience and man” as happening in today’s West.

            Western Europe is no better than USA; they are similar – the group of the Western nations. LGBT must be taught that their lifestyle is a sin till the end of the world for them to have a chance of knowing the truth and receiving salvation. Sin has no same rights with anything; it must be repented of and renounced as every other sin. The West’s some laws are a crime against humanity because those prohibit morality especially against children. If only they had wills to raise children properly instead of sleeping around. Your nation is well-built only because of your superb Christian ancestors but will go down by immorality if you don’t repent. Read Romans ch.1.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            My country isn’t suffering from atheism. SSM is legal here for 15 years now, don’t know how long abortion and euthanesia is legal here, but children are still being born, religious freedom is still a right here. So not sure how my country is suffering. Maybe you can tell me, cause it seems that you who doesn’t even live here, thinks you know it better then me, who is born and raised here.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Statistics. Western European nations are suffering from godless atheism especially among the younger generations. The trend is similar in each nation. It’s still unbelievable how the most intelligent superior Christendom could go that much crazy chaotic regarding chastity and morality. You guys are still intact because of the firm frameworks of your Christian ancestors who are gone now, but there will be a day when you won’t be able to make anymore filthy money showing off your huge empty church buildings they had built, unless your nation repents. Poor your ancestors. It’s a tragedy to work hard only for wayward thankless descendants. The land belongs to God. Thanks to your Christian missionaries of yesteryears who’ve liberated much of the world from darkness through the life-saving Gospel of Jesus Christ.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            So you don’t know anything about my country? Cause what you’re babbling about in your first paragraph is not a answer to my question. How is my nation suffering? We have a anti hate speech law here, so yeah yelling in the streets that homosexuality is filty will get you arrested. The same goes for refusing to serve people you don’t like if you have a public business. But it works both ways, when a homosexual person is yelling in the streets that Christians are filty it will get him arrested. If someone refuses to serve you because you’re a Christian you can sue him. See how that works.

            You guys are still intact only because of the firm frameworks of your Christian ancestors who are gone now

            Uhm, most Dutch aren’t even religious and since 1989 non religion is even the main stream here. And *gasp* we are still standing. Oh my, how is that even possible? Must be the fact that we have this saying here, live and let live. And most religious people here are Roman-Catholic, then we have protestant, Muslim, Hinduism, Buddhist and Jews. Nope, no Christians. Oh and the Royal House here is protestant. Read up on history before trying to be smart about a country you know nothing about.

            your huge empty church buildings

            So you have visited churches in The Netherlands then, cause it seems you know a lot about it? Interesting.

            The land belongs to the Lord

            Nope the land belongs to the people.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Your nation is suffering from promiscuity and broken homes and suicide because of atheism. People are made afraid to speak against the sin of homosexuality because freedom to say the truth is lost. Christianity is unequally good and created today’s Europe and America; no one should do bad to Christians, the creators and parents of all Western nations. It’s been your conscience and guidance. Homosexuality is sin and anyone should be able to help LGBT by educating them it’s sin. You guys went wayward by confusing good and evil; that’s your fundamental problem.

            You are wrongly educated. The Dutch have been solid Christian until 100 years ago, then steady decline to this day. It was the Christian Dutch who gave their life away to rescue the Jews in the Nazi era. You should have heard your then-queen’s Christian speech when the nation had to surrender to Nazi Germany. Your homeland was a Christendom. God punished godless humanism in the self-smart Europe during the horrible WW2, and many Europeans returned to church but the poison was never given up. It only delayed the explosion of humanism’s mental illness as seen on today. Sad. You are too young to remember anything properly.

            Many Earthlings know the churches in Europe are empty. It’s rather a famous fact. I hope the Muslims won’t see today’s secular Europe as Christian; it’s too disgraceful as a Christendom and shameful for your Christian ancestors. Christianity spread to the entire world thanks to the sacrificial Christian missionaries from Europe and America. Netherlands belong to God. Your nation has been excellent solely because of Christian foundation and Christian upbringing and nothing else. You guys should have been thankful to the one true God instead of going for all kinds of immorality. A tragedy no one imagined.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Suicide, promiscuity, broken homes? You have proof and I mean actually proof. I don’t see your country in that list of the 10 happiest nations. The Netherlands belong to the people, not your God. My nation is still excellent, you should visit and witness how layed back we are. Live and let live, you should try it sometimes instead of being such a dramaqueen all the time.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Jolanda, what literature do Dutch children and youth grow up reading? What do you remember reading? “A Dog of Flanders” is my lifetime best favorite. I grew up in Japan (not my homeland) and it’s also the Japanese people’s national favorite. I think the story is truly beautiful. Another unequal invincible product of the European Christendom. Europe if full of treasures in literature, music, and fine art because of Christianity.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Don’t try to be nice to me. After the insults on the other thread I’m not in the mood. Your God, not mine.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            So you want the US and the whole west full of Christians only, making it a theocracy? Will never happen.

        • Florenca Mcdowell

          Jack7 before you call others ignorant I suggest YOU try to learn facts on your own: Google Quotes of Founding Fathers!
          One quote from FISHER AMES; AUTHOR OF THE FINAL WORDING FOR THE FIRST AMENDEMENT WROTE, “(WHY)” should not the Bible regain the place it once held as a school book? Its morals are pure, its examples captivating and noble. The reverence for the SACRED BOOK that is thus early impressed last long; and probably if not impressed in infancy (YOU) never takes firm hold of the mind.
          DO not post something of which you have no knowledge.

      • ELBSeattle

        Since when is ‘the Word of God’ considered law of this land? Since never. Anyone who says differently is plain, flat-out wrong. America is not a theocracy, and was never founded on Christian principles. The formation of this country was to allow religious liberty to flourish, not to impose a specific and strict version of one branch of Christianity to be forced on the populace. Learn some history, fool.

        • Grace Kim Kwon

          The Western civilization threfore the entire world has no decent laws or proper lawfulness apart from the Holy Bible. ( Ancient Israel is an exception) No universal literacy, either. Read the Holy Bible and see what your ancestors stole from it. The Westerners would have been just another illiterate savages like the rest if they had no Bible or the Church. Raw mankind didn’t even know that unconditional goodness and God’s forgiveness and equality and freedom existed in this world. Vengeance was everything to live for until Jesus Christ appeared. You don’t know anything about the real world on Planet Earth because you grew up in the Christian civility’s bubble and were always protected by the Church.

    • Florenca Mcdowell

      That you are in fact IGNORANT. God has set the rules for marriage not judges. I GUARANTEE THAT EVERY JUDGE WHO IS INVOLVED WITH APPROVING OF GAY MARRIAGE, WILL BE JUDGED JUST AS THE S.C.
      JUDGES WHO APPROVED ABORTION HAVE ALREADY “RECEIVED” THEIR FINAL JUDGEMENT TO HELL.
      BTW SHOW ME IN THE CONSTITUTION WHERE IT SPEAKS OF GAY MARRIAGE OR ABORTION. THE FIRST IS AN ABOMINATION THE SECOND MURDER OF AN UNBORN LIFE. DON’T TALK ABOUT EQUAL RIGHTS OF 14 AMENDMENT WHICH WAS WRITTEN FOR THE FREED SLAVES. GAYS NEVER, EVER SUFFERED AS SLAVES DID.

      • Michael C

        Ma’am, you’re yelling.

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    USA persecutes a righteous man, Justice Roy Moore, for doing what is right. De-christianized USA is a perfect proof that a nation can be as chaotic as it can be with all the lawfulness intact. Lawful tyranny – another step closer to the Germany of last century. Lawfulness is so meaningless and junky without the Christian content.

    • http://www.lautenelectronics.com/ Guy Lauten

      The US supreme Court is the final arbiter. Period. ALL laws enacted by states that go against laws enacted by the Federal Government are null and void. EVERY attorney, even the dumbest law student, knows that decisions from the US Supreme Court supersede any and all conflicting decisions by any lower court, including the Alabama Supreme Court. They ALL know this, yet they play games because they don’t know how to accept losing. Your “christian” nation is an abomination. You want to be ruled by religious laws? Go someplace that doesn’t have separation of church and state, because you aren’t EVER going to get that here. I will not be ruled by your so-called “christian” dogma nor your “priests” who have been the purveyors of slaughter and oppression all over the Earth for millennia.. I am a free man and this is a free country. If YOU don’t like it, leave.

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        No, you guys are practically brainwashed slaves in Sodom; that’s why your generation is bent on immorality and infanticide unconditionally. Today’s USA should stop oppressing the Christians.

        • http://www.lautenelectronics.com/ Guy Lauten

          Yes, the 98% Christian controlled-government should stop persecuting you, huh? You obviously have no idea what persecution really is.
          Do you get to go to church when you want? Yes. Do you get to speak out about your “persecution”? Yes. If you were truly “persecuted”, you would not be allowed to do either. You are a liar and a fraud.
          Your morals are not mine, and I have as much right to the pursuit of happiness as you do. You don’t like it? Too effing bad, lady. You’re a dinosaur who time has come and gone. Your small mindedness has destroyed what used to be a revered religion. Soon your churches will have to pay taxes. Soon after that they will disappear because they are founded on hate and oppression. Good riddance to bad garbage.

        • Jolanda Tiellemans

          ROFLMAO!!!! Thanks, needed a good laugh!!

        • Jenny Ondioline

          Sodom? This has nothing to do with Sodom.

        • Jeff Simons

          How are Christians being oppressed? They have near 100% representation in government (the odd jew here and there and one atheist in Arizona make it more like 99.99999999% but I think we can round up in this case) in my state there is a church on every corner, churches don’t even pay taxes! People asking for the same rights you have is not oppression. And BTW, as the father of a dead infant son (he had a heart condition, died of it at 6 months old) don’t compare a fetus to an infant.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are wrong. Sodomy supporters are hedonists and not Christian. For Europeans and Americans to say “I’m Christian” means “I’m a civilized person.” The Western hedonism is no civility. The Church does every good thing for the state; the state should pay tax to the Church. Falsehood has no rights with the truth. The Holy Bible declares life starts at conception. (Psalm ch.139) and science confirms it, as always. China was deceived by the humanists that Earth is overpopulated, and playboys and hedonistic women everywhere do not want to take responsibility and that’s why they murder their children still in wombs.

          • Jeff Simons

            1. You never answered my question how are Christians oppressed?

            2. Welcome to the 21st century, Europe is mostly atheist now (and per capita doing best in the countries more heavily atheist) and that term only goes the way you describe it for a very small number of fundamentalists in the US.

            3. Wait, are you really trying to say the church is responsible for everything good in the US? I’m going to need some considerable proof of that claim. I don’t think it’ll equate to the 71 billion in tax revenue we’re missing out on here.

            4. Actually If you look at Gen 2:7, Psalms 33:6; Ezekiel 37 9-10, 13-14, as well as the punishment for causing a miscarriage in Exodus 21:22-25 being just payment like it were property damage instead of eye for an eye, it’s clear that not only does life begin at first breath for most of the bible (could have sworn I read somewhere else it was at 1 year, but I’ll keep looking for that one) I also invite you to read Numbers 5:11-31, which is pretty much instructions for a Rabbi/priest to perform an abortion.

            5. I see you tiptoed around my last sentence as well, a fetus is not a baby, I’ve lost a son and been party to a misscarriage for a wanted and planned pregnancy, both hurt, but guess which one hurt much, MUCH more.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            1. USA imprisons and fines and ruins Christians for not supporting America’s gay nudist culture.
            2. That’s why Europe is in decline now. Europe and America have been better-off only because of the hard-working Christian pioneers’ contributions. You got free stuff from the Christian pioneers. You show off church buildings and make money, scorning the Christian religion all the time; that’s what only thugs do to their good parents.
            3. Yes, the Church taught mankind that abortion and suicide is evil. All Americans owe their life to the Church. You have anything lawful only because of the Church. The Westerners were demon-worshiping child-sacrificing illiterate savage like the rest before the Church educated them to be civilized.
            4. You are wrong. Read Psalm ch.139. Life starts at conception. Jesus cursed those who hurt children. Read the entire Holy Bible.

            5. I’m sorry. Your son is probably waiting for you in Heaven. You will see him in Heaven if you repent of your sin and trust in Jesus as your Saviour and Lord. (John ch.3, Revelation ch.20-22)

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            USA imprisons and fines and ruins Christians for not supporting America’s gay nudist culture.

            If you break the law, you pay the price.

            That’s why Europe is in decline now.

            So and how is Europe in decline now? My country is doing fine, despite of SSM, abortion and a lot of Atheists. And so are my neighboring countries. So have any proof for your claim?

          • Jeff Simons

            1. Examples?

            2. Save 1 or 2 countries (the religious ones like Greece and Italy funny enough, or the UK that brought it on themselves) Europe is doing much better then anyone in the world save us, my point above is religion has nothing to do with how well the world is running right now.

            3. Again, your book advocates for abortion on several occasions, concepts like murder, rape (something else your book advocates for BTW, just have to pay her father and marry her) theft being bad predate your religion and it’s prequel religion by several thousand years of recorded history (and I’d wager real money that it goes back further then that) If you need religion to tell you not to harm others then I worry for you and those around you.

            4. I take it you didn’t read any of the verses I mentioned above, I’ll wait.

            5. No, my son is gone, what is left of him is me and the rest of my family talking about him, the only real after life we get.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Humble yourself before God and accept His word:

            “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the
            former things have passed away. …Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” ( Revelation ch.21, Acts ch.16)

          • Jack7

            Just so you know, the bible has a chapter where god gives priests a magic recipe for a drink to cause an abortion. So god totally condones abortion.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Uhm, China is overpopulated. And where in your psalm does it say that life starts at conception? You’ve got proof for your claim that science says the same?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            No place on earth is overpopulated. Overpopulation is a lie of the godless. Read the Holy Bible, Psalm 139 and 14. Ch.14 talks about both the Communists and secular Westerners who murder unborn children. Science confirms that life starts at conception; the cell glows at the conception and gets a new DNA and starts growing right after conception. You are alive and were a single cell in your mother’s womb, too.

      • Amos Moses

        Yeah …….. NO …………

        We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. Abraham Lincoln

        • http://www.lautenelectronics.com/ Guy Lauten

          Yes, which is why we have processes and methods to change our laws in such a way as to be fair to all. We do not stand and say “I will not obey” because we disagree with the law. We work within the system to change the laws. Standing and refusing to adhere to the laws of our land is a criminal act, whether or not one “feels justified” in doing so.

          • Amos Moses

            No …. we do not need the USSC to tell us what is right and what is wrong …. We Tell Them …. this is a constitutional republic …… not a judicial tyranny …………. contentious objection and refusal to cooperate and civil disobedience are all valid forms of protest ……. whether or not you agree with it …… just as blacks did in the 60s ….. we can do so now ……..

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Yes, but until you get a court or legislature to agree with you, the law remains unchanged. You can protest all you want, but until you accomplish something, you can’t legitimately say that the law is anything but what SCOTUS has ruled.

          • Amos Moses

            it is not law ……….. it is a corrupt USSC and it gave up its authority …….. and we will continue to protest …………. your whiney protestations not withstanding …………

          • http://www.lautenelectronics.com/ Guy Lauten

            you do that. i stand in awe at your intense distaste. I am sure it will change the world.
            Meanwhile, why don’t you go out there and start disobeying man’s law. There’s some nice warm places that will give you 3 hots and a cot for the rest of your life if you screw up bad enough. You’d fit right in.

          • Amos Moses

            Been there … done that ….. will do it again ….. i have no fear of jail …… life is already screwed up ….. and you are assisting it ….. have fun with that ……..

          • http://www.lautenelectronics.com/ Guy Lauten

            excellent. say hey to your new roomie Bubba.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            I really am not surprised to hear that.

          • Liberal Elitist

            Nor am I.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Supreme Court rulings aren’t law? Then why does everyone in the country obey them?

            What do you mean SCOTUS “gave up its authority?” When did that happen?

          • Amos Moses

            i am not responsible for the stupity of others……

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Okay, so what is your evidence for this wild assertion? Can you quote me some prominent lawyers, professors, or judges who hold this view?

          • Amos Moses

            Lincoln …….. and i already have ……. and we have already had this conversation ……

          • Ambulance Chaser

            So, none, then. Got it, thanks.

          • Amos Moses

            Lincoln was a lawyer …….. got it ……

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Okay, and?

          • Jeff Simons

            Lincoln wasn’t alive to see the 14th amendment be ratified, so his opinion isn’t exactly valid here.

          • Amos Moses

            but what he said still holds today ……….

            We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. ~ Abraham Lincoln

          • Jeff Simons

            And we the people ratified the 14th amendment, which provides equal protection of the law to all citizens. You have proven our point good sir.

          • Amos Moses

            and when the USSC ruled on homosexual “marriage” … it ceded its authority and is now invalid ….. powdered sugar on a turd is not a jelly doughnut ….. and two men or two women is not a marriage …… no matter how much sugar you want to dump on that lie …………..

          • Jeff Simons

            You keep mentioning the United States Sentencing Commission, why? SCOTUS ruled on gay marriage, a civil law, the USSC primarily deals with criminal law.

            My nitpicking your use of the wrong acronym aside, how did they cede any authority? They are the end all, be all, on what the US constitution says, the 14th amendment, in addition to providing the aforementioned equal protection clause also applies the constitution to the states, SCOTUS ruled that gay people are protected under the equal protection clause and as such get equal rights across the country no matter the government entity. Also FYI, marriage predates your religion (and it’s prequel religion as well) including gay marriage, it does not get to say what marriage is (not that it actually attempts to do such anyway, it’s first couple never even marry)

          • Amos Moses

            United States Supreme Court …. USSC ………..

          • Jeff Simons

            No, United States Sentencing Commission=USSC, SCOTUS=Supreme Court of the United States. Please learn the proper definitions for these two parts of the judiciary…

          • Ambulance Chaser

            You keep saying that. When did the Court “cede its authority?” Why was this not front-page national news?

          • Amos Moses

            why would it have to be ….. those who want the truth suppressed ….. suppressed it …. why is that a surprise ……….

          • Amos Moses

            Honestly …. do you REALLY think you are getting the truth from the media in this country …… i would laugh but that is really pitiful …………… and sad ……….

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Why are we talking about the media?

            Are you trying to argue that the Supreme Court at some point “ceded its authority” (whatever that means) but “the media” covered it up, for some reason? And that the evidence that this thing happened is that there is no evidence?

            I don’t…I just can’t even. It’s like, we’ve reached a whole new level of Not Even Wrong. So much that we need a new name for it.

          • Amos Moses

            you WERE ……….. “Why was this not front-page national news?”

            so you can answer your own question ………

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Ok, my answer is: because it didn’t happen.

          • Amos Moses

            okay ………. in your opinion ………

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Let me get this straight. A monumental, earth-shattering shift in the balance of power in America, with nationwide ramifications happened, and no one reported it, and your only proof is that you say so?

          • Amos Moses

            no …. that you refuse to acknowledge what happened is not my problem … it is yours ….. my dog ran out into the street yesterday ….. did not get reported … does not mean it did not happen …… FYI …… the dissenting members called the court on this ruling as to what it was …. Scalia and others ……. a total ignoring of the courts rulings and authority and the constitution …… or did you miss that bit … so your assertion is false and a lie ………. and just because you choose not to agree with it does not mean it did not happen …………………………………………………………………..

          • Amos Moses

            POPULAR RADIO HOST MICHAEL SAVAGE BROADCAST SHUT DOWN NATIONWIDE AS HE DISCUSSES CLINTON’S HEALTH…

            yeah … thats the free media in this country that you want to think you get the truth from …… WOW …………

          • Ambulance Chaser

            What in the world does that have to do with this discussion?

          • Amos Moses

            You brought up the media …..

          • Jeff Simons

            in a completely different context, hell of a strawman you pulled.

          • Amos Moses

            in context … he brought it up …….. “Why was this not front-page national news?” ………

          • Jeff Simons

            You have no idea what context means do you?

          • Amos Moses

            again ….. he brought it up … it was his “context” … if he did not want it responded to ….. he should have left it out ………..

          • Jeff Simons

            No, he asked a rhetorical question. You don’t need to give a rhetorical answer.

          • Amos Moses

            sorry … i did not do too well in rhetoricals ….. and this is a christian site … we discuss christianity and stories from a christian perspective and the truth …………… but that is difficult for some to understand … you know … where they are and what the topic is …….

          • Jeff Simons

            So you’re saying said religion and perspective doesn’t want nor can it hold itself up to being scrutinized? Well that’s certainly interesting.

          • Amos Moses

            you have yet to scrutinize anything with any clarity … but go ahead … you have little to nothing i have not heard 100’s of times ……….

          • Jeff Simons

            Your willingness or ability to process it does not mean I haven’t scrutinized it.

          • Amos Moses

            so that is a no ……. got it …………..

          • Amos Moses

            nothing you are saying invalidates it …….. we the people control the government … t not the USSC ………

          • Jeff Simons

            Did you mean to reply to another post? And like I’ve said before the United States Sentencing Commission has nothing to do with this.

          • Bob Johnson

            Not everybody – Roy Moore for example obeys only Roy Moore’s law.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            And look how well that’s working for him.

          • Jeff Simons

            He’s kind of right, they’re not law, they’re rulings on what a law can and cannot be, in a way they’re higher then any law except the US constitution.

          • Jason Carrier

            “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”

          • Amos Moses

            marriage is one man and one woman and being homosexual did not preclude them from participation ………. your position is a lie …………..

          • Jason Carrier

            So they are not “persons”?

          • Amos Moses

            no …. they are not married ………….. and if they want to be married ….. then they can do what is required to be married ……… find a person that meets the requirement of one man and one woman …….. and not one person is stopping them ……………

          • Jason Carrier

            marriage is a fundamental right.
            defining it as just between man and woman violates the 5th’s due process clause (and could even be said to violate a gay couples Freedom of Religion, if you are using Bible logic)

          • Amos Moses

            “marriage is a fundamental right.”

            Yep … sure is ….

            “defining it as just between man and woman violates the 5th’s due process clause”

            NOPE …… it is REDEFINING what has stood for thousands of years and for no good reason ……. other than to destroy a society ………..

          • Jason Carrier

            Fourteen times since 1888, the United States Supreme Court has stated that marriage is a fundamental right of all individuals. In these cases, the Court has reaffirmed that “freedom of personal choice in matters of marriage” is “one of the liberties protected by the Due Process Clause,” “essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men,” and “sheltered by the Fourteenth Amendment against the State’s unwarranted usurpation, disregard, or disrespect.”

            Here is a list of the fourteen cases, with links to the opinions and citations to the Court’s discussion of the right to marry.

            Maynard v. Hill, 125 U.S. 190, 205, 211 (1888): Marriage is “the most important relation in life” and “the foundation of the family and society, without which there would be neither civilization nor progress.”

            Meyer v. Nebraska, 262 U.S. 390, 399 (1923): The right “to marry, establish a home and bring up children” is a central part of liberty protected by the Due Process Clause.

            Skinner v. Oklahoma ex rel. Williamson, 316 U.S. 535, 541 (1942): Marriage “one of the basic civil rights of man,” “fundamental to the very existence and survival of the race.”

            Griswold v. Connecticut, 381 U.S. 479, 486 (1965): “We deal with a right of privacy older than the Bill of Rights—older than our political parties, older than our school system. Marriage is a coming together for better or for worse, hopefully enduring, and intimate to the degree of being sacred. It is an association that promotes a way of life, not causes; a harmony in living, not political faiths; a bilateral loyalty, not commercial or social projects. Yet it is an association for as noble a purpose as any involved in our prior decisions.”

            Loving v. Virginia, 388 U.S. 1, 12 (1967): “The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men.”

            Boddie v. Connecticut, 401 U.S. 371, 376, 383 (1971): “[M]arriage involves interests of basic importance to our society” and is “a fundamental human relationship.”

            Cleveland Board of Education v. LaFleur, 414 U.S. 632, 639-40 (1974): “This Court has long recognized that freedom of personal choice in matters of marriage and family life is one of the liberties protected by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.”

            Moore v. City of East Cleveland, 431 U.S. 494, 499 (1977) (plurality): “[W]hen the government intrudes on choices concerning family living arrangements, this Court must examine carefully the importance of the governmental interests advanced and the extent to which they are served by the challenged regulation.”

            Carey v. Population Services International, 431 U.S. 678, 684-85 (1977): “[I]t is clear that among the decisions that an individual may make without unjustified government interference are personal decisions relating to marriage, procreation, contraception, family relationships, and child rearing and education.”

            Zablocki v. Redhail, 434 U.S. 374, 384 (1978): “[T]he right to marry is of fundamental importance for all individuals.”

            Turner v. Safley, 482 U.S. 78, 95 (1987): “[T]he decision to marry is a fundamental right” and an “expression[ ] of emotional support and public commitment.”

            Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pennsylvania v. Casey, 505 U.S. 833, 851 (1992): “These matters, involving the most intimate and personal choices a person may make in a lifetime, choices central to personal dignity and autonomy, are central to the liberty protected by the Fourteenth Amendment. At the heart of liberty is the right to define one’s own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life.”

            M.L.B. v. S.L.J., 519 U.S. 102, 116 (1996): “Choices about marriage, family life, and the upbringing of children are among associational rights this Court has ranked as ‘of basic importance in our society,’ rights sheltered by the Fourteenth Amendment against the State’s unwarranted usurpation, disregard, or disrespect.”

            Lawrence v. Texas, 539 U.S. 558, 574 (2003): “[O]ur laws and tradition afford constitutional protection to personal decisions relating to marriage, procreation, contraception, family relationships, and education. … Persons in a homosexual relationship may seek autonomy for these purposes, just as heterosexual persons do.”

          • Amos Moses

            and it has also stated that it is a states domain to legislate it ………. and they have no delegated authority to make it a constitutional issue ……….

          • Jason Carrier

            State laws must pass Constitutional Muster

          • Amos Moses

            no ……. they do not …… all law is considered constitutional until proven otherwise ……

          • Jason Carrier

            Which is Constitutional muster. These laws did not pass that test.

          • http://www.lautenelectronics.com/ Guy Lauten

            The US Supreme Court does not tell us what is right and wrong. They never have and have never pretended to. The US Supreme Court tells us what is LEGAL and what is not. IF you cannot see the difference, that’s YOUR shortcoming, not anyone else’s.
            The laws are written by man for man. In order to get along with our fellow human beings we obey man’s laws, those of us in the US obey the laws of the US of America. If you don’t like those laws, work to change them or go somewhere else. No one is suffering under “judicial tyranny”; that’s just you getting all worked up to make things seem dramatic and bigger than they really are. Turn off Fox News for a month and you’d be surprised at how quick it fades.

          • Amos Moses

            in this case …. they sure did ………… and they lied there offices off ……..

          • http://www.lautenelectronics.com/ Guy Lauten

            no, they upheld a simple concept as it is written: it’s called Equal Protection and it applies to all people , even those you don’t like. too bad, so sad. then again, maybe we SHOULD change that and start making all people named Amos clean up everybody else’s mess. Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. My God says all people named Amos are an abomination before God and should be put down and subjected. Good idea.

          • Amos Moses

            No …. they violated their own ruling ….. that marriage is a state jurisdiction ….. not federal …….

          • http://www.lautenelectronics.com/ Guy Lauten

            I repeat:
            ANY state law that is in conflict with Federal law is null and void.
            THAT is called the Supremacy Clause and was written by our founding fathers into the constitution. So your theory of the state having jurisdiction over the feds simply doesn’t hold water in under ANY theory of law. Learn when to accept when you’re wrong; it’s the only way to grow up.

          • Amos Moses

            Nope …… any federal law that violates the constitution is null and void …… and the USSC ruled marriage is a states issue and not a federal one ……….. so it violated its own ruling …… there is no federal authority whatsoever in the constitution for a federal ruling on marriage …… and if there is one then show it it ………….. no theory needed …….

          • http://www.lautenelectronics.com/ Guy Lauten

            but equal RIGHTS for every citizen is a federal guarantee, and one of those RIGHTS is to get married. therefore, since no state can take away a citizens rights, the state can have NO SAY as to whether a citizen gets married or not.
            nyah. try again, little mind. it ain’t working for you, and it’s not GOING to work for you. You don’t seem to get that you are a dying breed, that you are a relic of a past age, and if you don’t have the good graces to be a decent human being to the rest of us, do the right thing, quit wasting good oxygen, and get the hell off the Earth. Your “heaven” and “salvation” await you. I’m sure you’ll be MUCH happier there.

          • Amos Moses

            and they had equal rights and it was not enough for them ………….

          • http://www.lautenelectronics.com/ Guy Lauten

            no, they were not being allowed to marry, so the court had to force the issue. If bigots like yourself had not continued a history of discrimination, and acceded to the law of the land, there would be no issue. It is YOU and your BIGOTS who made this an issue by perpetuating an unjust system that has been in place for over 200 years. And it is NEVER too late to right a wrong.

          • Amos Moses

            They were allowed to marry ……..so that is a lie ….. two men together is not a marriage …. nor are two women ….. so they had the exact same right as everyone else …… and you are the BIGOTS ………….. bigoted to the truth ………..

          • http://www.lautenelectronics.com/ Guy Lauten

            you have no idea what “bigot” really means, do you?

          • Amos Moses

            i understand that you only use it as an epithet because you have no real consistant argument and it is solely a pejorative to cover that lack …..

          • http://www.lautenelectronics.com/ Guy Lauten

            oh and by the way:
            They kicked the bigot judge out of his bench once again because he’s too thick and set in his old ways to get that times have changed. Too bad, so sad, you lose again. And again. And again… It must feel so great to be a martyr to your intense distaste. Enjoy the bitter tears.

          • Amos Moses

            so what ……………. do the right thing has consequences ….. and he is not a bigot just because you say so … it is just an epithet and ad hominem because you have nothing else you can say …………

          • Jeff Simons

            He’s a bigot because he fits the definition, ad hominem would only apply if he didn’t have any other evidence or if a separate point of his character was being attacked.

          • Amos Moses

            Baloney …. no proof and no truth … just ad hominem …………. “bigot” is all you have to make your point …. you are bigoted to the truth …….

          • Jeff Simons

            No, we’re not, lets examine the definition shall we? “a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.” Considering Moore risked (and essentially lost) his job being intolerant of SCOTUS’ ruling that fits the definition. BTW one more caveat to it, an ad hominem is attacking the person holding the debate, as you are not Judge Moore I don’t think it applies here either.

          • Amos Moses

            “”a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.” ”

            so that includes you …….. you are intolerant ….. and it applies if you are calling him a bigot ……. and by extension … you are calling me one …………

          • Jeff Simons

            No, I’m stating empirical facts, if facts contradict an opinion that is not intolerance, nor is intolerance of intolerance itself intolerance.

          • Amos Moses

            you have yet to present even one fact ….. all you have is opinion ……….. “nor is intolerance of intolerance itself intolerance.” …. WOW!!!!! …. do you read before you send ….. intolerance is not intolerance ……… yeah baby … thats a fact …… if you live in “1984” and you speak newspeak …… or maybe you live on “Animal Farm” …….. up is down, left is right, wrong is right, black is white …….. again ….. you have yet to present even ONE fact or even a factoid …… all you have is your opinion …… you have no truth in what you say ………….

          • Jeff Simons

            And now THAT is an ad hominem attack. I’ve stated nothing but demonstrable facts (hell, I’m paraphrasing the constitution) and your reply to them is to call me a liar. Congrats, you’ve now demonstrated the fallacy.

          • Amos Moses

            never said liar ….. just no facts ….. and then you want to use mind-control and language control …. more PC nonsense to control the debate ….. your newspeak is not going to work …… i did not attack you …. i attacked your nonsense …….. your silly ideas ……….

          • Jeff Simons

            You need not say liar to call someone a liar, and holding you to what you say is not “PC nonsense”. Now holding you to the english language and the logical rules of debate may not work on you, but it does very much serve to discredit you to the people who matter, the other people reading this discussion.

          • Amos Moses

            you are trying to control the debate by calling people bigot and what they say is bigoted ….. because you disagree with the opinion ….. and that makes you a bigot ….. BY YOUR OWN DEFINITION ….. “a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.” ….. stones and glass walls …… BINGO …………….

          • Jeff Simons

            No, I didn’t mention bigot until you tried to call someone else out on it, I’ve so far presented you with what the US Constitution says on this, corrected your improper acronyms, and pointed out where you’re wrong. Please do try to stay with me on this.

          • Amos Moses

            “No, I didn’t mention bigot until you tried to call someone else out on it”

            and then you stepped in and tried to defend its use ….. and then gave a definition …. and got caught in your own trap ………. BTW ….. the other persons comments have been deleted for TOS violations ……..

          • Jeff Simons

            Yes, I saw them before they were deleted and have read the TOS, they did not violate anything.

          • Amos Moses

            yeah … they did …. and the evidence is … they are gone ……….

          • Jeff Simons

            no, that’s evidence that someone removed them, as I didn’t get a screenshot though we’re at an impasse on that though.

          • Amos Moses

            nope …… the person is gone ….. unless he signs in under another name ……. he is gone because he was called on his violation ……

          • Liberal Elitist

            You seem confused. My spouse and I have been together for 37 years but we could not legally marry until last year after the U.S. Supreme Court struck down the remaining state bans on marriage equality.

          • Amos Moses

            your “spouse” and you are not married ….. if you are both men or both women ………. that is a lie you are telling yourself …….. marriage is one man and one woman and being homosexual did not preclude either of you from participation ………. your position is a lie …………..

          • Liberal Elitist

            You still seem confused. Before last year’s historic U.S. Supreme Court decision striking down as unconstitutional the remaining state bans on marriage equality, my spouse and I could not marry in our state.

          • Amos Moses

            and even if you have a “ceremony” today … you will not be married …… putting powdered sugar on a turd does not make it a jelly doughnut ……………. two men or two women is not a marriage ……

          • Jeff Simons

            I don’t know what the United States Sentencing Commission has to do with this case, SCOTUS made the ruling and is he highest court in the land.

          • Amos Moses

            so was the USSC right when it ruled on Dred Scott ….. or when it overturned it ……….. and why has that changed now …. as they could overrule it again …… your reliance on a temporary office holder for truth is a fatal flaw in your reasoning …………

          • Ambulance Chaser

            They didn’t overturn Dred Scott. The Civil Rights Act of 1866 did, and the Thirteenth and Fourteenth Amendments solidified it.

            Let me ask the question you were trying to ask: “Was the Supreme Court right when it permitted separate but equal in Plessy v. Ferguson, or when it overturned it in Brown v. Board of Education?

            A. Brown, but who cares? No one here is trying to argue what is right or wrong, only what is and is not legal. What’s “right” is irrelevant.

          • Amos Moses

            So at some point they ruled against it ….. unavoidable logic ….. they did ….

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Uh, no? The CRA and the Amendments rendered it irrelevant. Why would a court rule on it? Have you ever filed a lawsuit alleging that alcohol should be banned under the 18th Amendment?

          • Amos Moses

            the court has made rulings in contravention to its earlier ruling in Dred Scott …. courts reverse their rulings all the time ……

          • Jeff Simons

            By the Constitution at the time SCOTUS (seriously, use the right acronym, USSC wasn’t even a thing until 1984) was indeed correct. Once the 14th amendment was ratified it ceased to be a valid ruling. I’m not relying on a office holder, I’m relying on what the constitution says at the time and baring an amendment swiping it away, SCOTUS precedent. Welcome to how constitutional law works with a living constitution.

          • Liberal Elitist

            In 1967, after the U.S. Supreme Court struck down as unconstitutional the remaining state bans against interracial opposite-sex marriage, 72% of adult Americans opposed such marriages, and 48% of adult Americans favored criminal punishments for interracial opposite-sex couples who engaged in this behavior.

          • Amos Moses

            Loving v Virginia ….. yeah … so what ….. they have no delegated authority ……….

          • Liberal Elitist

            They’re called Supreme for a reason. In time, you’ll get used to the idea.

          • Amos Moses

            In time ….. you will regret your position….. i will not ….

          • Liberal Elitist

            Doubtful.

          • Amos Moses

            certain ……..

          • http://www.lautenelectronics.com/ Guy Lauten

            In time… and not that much longer… you and your relics of a past era will be dead and gone. I say “good riddance to bad garbage.”

          • Amos Moses

            and you will still be in the wrong ….. the truth does not change with the existence or absense of any individual person or group ….. it exists on its own ….. and you cannot change it by fiat proclamation or your desire for it to be different ………. homosexuality will always be wrong ….. they know it ….. and in fact you know it …..

          • http://www.lautenelectronics.com/ Guy Lauten

            YOUR truth. Not mine. And mine has just as much validity as yours. So welcome to America – a free country where ALL people get to live as they want – and go screw yourself.

          • Amos Moses

            there is no yours and my truth ….. so that is just deflection and a lie ……

          • Amos Moses

            being sincere in being wrong does not make your position right …….. lots of criminals think what they did was “sincere” ….. has NOTHING to do with the truth ……….

          • Amos Moses

            “you and your relics of a past era will be dead and gone. I say “good riddance to bad garbage.””

            BTW, that is a threat of violence and is a TOS violation …………………

          • http://www.lautenelectronics.com/ Guy Lauten

            Nope. Old, out of date, and in the way things get removed by natural processes. My statement is just a celebration of the natural order of things. Boy, you just get more and more wrong, don’t you?

          • Amos Moses

            what you said was a threat and a TOS violation …………

          • Amos Moses

            so the TOS violator was deleted …… bye bye ….

          • Amos Moses

            So you are the new Lebensborn …… sure ……… i already know that …… its just that ….. you cant “born” anything ….. so shortly after you destroy it all ….. you will have finished yourselves …… have fun …..

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    It’s SCOTUS that defiled US Constitution and the Word of God. Everyone is fearful of what Nazi Sodom could do. USA is not USA anymore. The Founding Fathers would have included Christian morality in the US Constitution if they knew what would become of Americans. They thought Americans would stay always Christian-moral without having such covenants and promises. Poor fathers.

    • Ambulance Chaser

      Who says SCOTUS defied the Constitution? You? Does your opinion override the Supreme Court’s?

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        Marriage is between one man and one woman. No human institution has rights to change the eternal decrees of the one true God. The Holy Bible overrides everything. Christianity created USA and the secularists are ruining the well-established nation. American courts are being bored for having nothing to fight for; that’s why they started oppressing the Christians. Horror from the American boredom( not freedom).

        • SFBruce

          We do not live in a Christian theocracy. We have a secular government which recognizes freedom of conscience to all, and that includes Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddists every other faith and those who follow no faith tradition at all.

        • Ambulance Chaser

          Okay, but nothing in that rambling, unfocused diatribe answered my question. Who says SCOTUS defied the Constitution? You? On what authority do you derive your right to issue an opinion on what is and is not Constitutional that overrides the Supreme Court?

        • Bob Johnson

          “No human institution has rights to change the eternal decrees…”

          If we are to take this approach then the government should get entirely out of the marriage business. No alimony, no child support, no Social Security survivors benefits, – all those 1500 state and federal laws (human institutions) currently in place.

          By-the-way, would you recognize a non-Christian, such as Hindu, marriage?

        • Jason Carrier

          “Now be it known, That I John Adams, President of the United States of America, having seen and considered the said Treaty do, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, accept, ratify, and confirm the same, and every clause and article thereof. And to the End that the said Treaty may be observed, and performed with good Faith on the part of the United States, I have ordered the premises to be made public; And I do hereby enjoin and require all persons bearing office civil or military within the United States, and all other citizens or inhabitants thereof, faithfully to observe and fulfill the said Treaty and every clause and article thereof.

          Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion”

    • http://www.slowlyboiledfrog.com/ David Cary Hart

      There is the little matter of Marbury v. Madison which makes the Supreme Court the final arbiter of the Constitution. More may disagree. Moore may not like a ruling. However Moore cannot defy a ruling.

      There is no mention of any god in the Constitution. In the original text, the only mention of religion is the preclusion of a religious test for office. We were never intended to be a Christian nation. We have Jews and Muslims and Hindus and Buddhists and non-believers.

  • http://www.slowlyboiledfrog.com/ David Cary Hart

    I have this up at the SlowlyBoiledFrog. There remains no doubt that Moore instructed probate judges not to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples after the Supreme Court banned state same-sex marriage bans six months earlier. Neither Moore nor Staver can explain that away. Moore basically signed his own confession.

  • Kevin Quillen

    will some one please show me where in the Constitution that it gives the Federal government any say in marriage. The tenth amendment should be followed. Anything not specifically spelled out to be a function of the Feds is left to the states and to the people. Without God man’s laws are opinions imposed by force.

    • Michael C

      By that rationale, you’re saying that the Supreme Court had no right to nullify interracial marriage bans in 1967.

      If the federal government has no say in marriage, individual states should be permitted to ban interracial marriage if they so choose.

      Do you really believe this?

      • Amos Moses

        Gee ….. if you follow the law …. you would almost have to … would you not ….. is that not what you advocate …. following the law ………. but that was not the issue in Loving ………. it was a tangential issue ….. and their is no federal constitutional basis for any ruling on marriage ………..

        • Michael C

          Gee ….. if you follow the law …. you would almost have to … would you not ….. is that not what you advocate …. following the law ………. but that was not the issue in Loving ………. it was a tangential issue ….. and their is no federal constitutional basis for any ruling on marriage ………..

          I’m sorry. I wish I could respond to your comment but I’m honestly not able to follow it. Perhaps it would be more clear if you were to format your response in complete sentences. The fragmented thoughts separated by strings of ellipses isn’t cutting it in the communication department.

          • Amos Moses

            you cannot follow it because your thoughts are futile and only want to endorse your own sins …..

    • Jason Carrier

      the 9th, and 14th Amendments to start. Then there are the 16 Supreme Court cases that state Marriage is a Fundamental Right

  • http://www.gmail.com/ David van Heerden

    One little memo caused confusion? Remarkable! Clearly legal matters considered to be on stable ground are not. Shoot the messenger, because he’s got a point!

    • Michael C

      If your boss sends you an email telling you to do something, what do you do?

      Yes, one little memo can cause confusion.

  • Liberal Elitist

    BREAKING NEWS: Rabidly anti-gay activist judge Roy Moore suspended without pay for the remainder of his term.

    Thank you, Liberty Counsel, for another victory … for us.

  • http://www.bibleversusconstitution.org/ Kingdom Ambassador

    Pray for Judge Moore that through this his eyes will be opened to the fact that the biblically seditious Constitution that he swore to uphold is at the root of His problems:

    “…The Bible stipulates, among other things, that judicial appointees must be men of truth who fear Yahweh and hate covetousness. (See Chapter 5 “Article 2: Executive Usurpation” for a list of additional Biblical qualifications.) The United States Constitution requires no Biblical qualifications whatsoever. Nowhere does the Constitution stipulate that judges must rule on behalf of Yahweh, rendering decisions based upon His commandments, statutes, and judgments as required in Exodus 18. That not even one constitutional framer contended for Yahweh,3 as did King Jehoshaphat, speaks volumes about the framers’ disregard for Him and His judicial system:

    ‘And he [King Jehoshaphat] set judges in the land throughout all the fenced cities of Judah, city by city, and said to the judges, Take heed what ye do: for ye judge not for man, but for YHWH,4 who is with you in the judgment…. And he charged them, saying, Thus shall ye do in the fear of YHWH, faithfully, and with a perfect heart.’ (2 Chronicles 19:5-9)….”

    For more, see online Chapter 6 “Article 3: Judicial Usurpation” of “Bible Law vs. the United States Constitution: The Christian Perspective.” Click on my picture, then our website. Go to our Online Books page, click on the top entry, and scroll down to Chapter 6.

    Then find out how much you REALLY know about the Constitution as compared to the Bible. Take our 10-question Constitution Survey in the right-hand sidebar and receive a complimentary copy of a book that EXAMINES the Constitution by the Bible.

  • http://www.bibleversusconstitution.org/ Kingdom Ambassador

    Pray for Judge Moore that through this his eyes will be opened to the fact that the biblically seditious Constitution that he swore to uphold is at the root of His problems:

    “…Although the First Amendment does not allow for establishing one religion over another, by eliminating Christianity as the federal government’s religion of choice (achieved by Article 6’s interdiction against Christian test oaths), Amendment 1 authorized equality for all non-Christian and even antichristian religions. When the Constitution failed to recognize Christian monotheism, it allowed Amendment 1 to fill the void by authorizing pagan polytheism.

    “Amendment 1 did exactly what the framers proclaimed it could not do: it prohibited the exercise of monotheistic Christianity (except within the confines of its church buildings) and established polytheism in its place. This explains the government’s double standard regarding Christian and non-Christian religions. For example, court participants entering the United States District Court of Appeals for the Middle District of Alabama must walk by a statue of Themis, the Greek goddess of justice. And yet, on November 18, 2002, this very court ruled that Judge Roy Moore’s Ten Commandments Monument violated the First Amendment’s Establishment Clause. Despite many Christians’ protests against this hypocrisy, it was in keeping with the inevitable repercussions of the First Amendment.

    “…Christians hang their religious hat on Amendment 1, as if some great moral principle is carved therein. They have gotten so caught up in the battle over the misuse of the Establishment Clause – the freedom from religion – that they have overlooked the ungodliness intrinsic in the Free Exercise Clause – the freedom of religion….”

    For more, see online Chapter 11 “Amendment 1: Government-Sanctioned Polytheism” of “Bible Law vs. the United States Constitution: The Christian Perspective.” Click on my picture, then our website. Go to our Online Books page, click on the top entry, and scroll down to Chapter 11.

    Then find out how much you REALLY know about the Constitution as compared to the Bible. Take our 10-question Constitution Survey in the right-hand sidebar and receive a complimentary copy of a book that EXAMINES the Constitution by the Bible.