Evangelicals Divided on Whether or Not to Turn From Trump Following Release of ‘Indefensible’ Audio

Photo Credit: Michael Vadon
Photo Credit: Michael Vadon

Prominent professing evangelical leaders are divided on whether or not Christians should turn from Trump and vote third party or write-in following the release of a 2005 video in which Trump bragged about allegedly sexually assaulting women and attempting to have sexual relations with a married woman.

James Dobson of Focus on the Family said in a statement on Tuesday that while he agreed the tape was terrible, it wasn’t enough to make him change his mind, citing the “cast the first stone” clause from the biblical account of the woman caught in adultery.

“First, I do not condone nor defend Donald Trump’s terrible comments made 11 years ago. They are indefensible and awful,” he said. “I’m sure there are other misdeeds in his past, although as Jesus said, ‘Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.'”

“I am, however, more concerned about America’s future than Donald Trump’s past,” Dobson said. “To my knowledge, Donald Trump has never abused women physically or had [sexual relations] the Oval Office with a vulnerable intern. Nor has he committed perjury by lying to Congress for many hours. Clinton, on the other hand, lost his license to practice law for that criminal act. Trump hasn’t been impeached by Congress for his lies.”

Robert Jeffress, who leads First Baptist Church of Dallas, made similar remarks, asserting that America is not electing a minister.

“It was lewd, obscene, indefensible—but not enough to make me want to vote for Hillary Clinton,” he told the Wall Street Journal. “I might not choose this man to be a Sunday school teacher at my church, but that’s not what this election is about.”

But Wayne Grudem, professor of Theology and Biblical Studies at Phoenix Seminary, withdrew his endorsement of Trump following the release of the video and after reviewing sexually-charged remarks made on the Howard Stern Show. He noted that he couldn’t vote for Clinton either and wasn’t sure what to do.

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“There is no morally good presidential candidate in this election. I previously called Donald Trump a ‘good candidate with flaws’ and a ‘flawed candidate,’ but I now regret that I did not more strongly condemn his moral character,” Grudem wrote for Town Hall on Sunday.

“Some Christian friends tell me they can’t vote for either candidate, because they think that voting for either one is compromising with evil. …. I respect that argument, and because of it I am not now sure who I am going to vote for,” he said. “But if we are to pray for good government, shouldn’t we also vote for good government when we have opportunity? Therefore I am deeply reluctant to simply walk away from the process in disgust, or vote for a write-in candidate in order to register a protest against both parties.”

Albert Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, opined that it has been embarrassing to observe Christians continuing to defend Trump as he believes it is harmful to their witness to the world.

“Far too many evangelicals have set themselves up for a humiliating embarrassment by serving as apologists for Donald Trump,” he told the Wall Street Journal. “The moral credibility of evangelical Christians is on the line, and it is of far greater value than any election.”

“In the course of just one generation, evangelicals have gone from thinking too little about about politics to thinking that an election is worth sacrificing our moral credibility. That is far too high a price to pay,” Mohler wrote. “There is still some time for some of those leaders to realize what is at stake. I can only hope.”


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  • Amos Moses

    Survey Finds Most American Christians Are Actually Heretics Americans talking about theology sound about as competent as country singers rapping

    • Amos Moses

      John MacArthur Series On Engaging Modern Culture Now Available On Audio Cassette
      October 12, 2016

  • Amos Moses

    “Far too many evangelicals have set themselves up for a humiliating embarrassment by serving as apologists for Donald Trump,” he told the Wall Street Journal. “The moral credibility of evangelical Christians is on the line, and it is of far greater value than any election.”
    “In the course of just one generation, evangelicals have gone from thinking too little about about politics to thinking that an election is worth sacrificing our moral credibility. That is far too high a price to pay,” Mohler wrote. “There is still some time for some of those leaders to realize what is at stake. I can only hope.”

    YYYYYUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUPP ………….

  • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

    So these so-called evangelicals think Donald Trump is irredeemable? Doesn’t sound like Christianity to me.

    • Amos Moses

      i do not think he is irredeemable …… just not yet redeemed ………. if God can redeem David Berkowitz …. He can redeem anyone ……… and satan will appear as an angel of light … i am very wary ………

      • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

        I think he can get there. It seems to me that God is calling him and humbling him before He gives him the Presidency, but we will see.

    • Deb Schultz

      Indeed ! Well said.

  • http://www.gmail.com/ David van Heerden

    Where is the SMOD when you need it?

  • james blue

    —“To my knowledge, Donald Trump has never abused women physically” —

    Apparently Mr Dobson lives in an information bubble with triple layer force field shields

    • dean29685

      troll

  • https://www.facebook.com/dailyjournalofnews/ GhostOwl

    I’d be very careful how we judge Trump… many Pharisees and Hypocrites nowadays….and God is watching everyone and knows our thoughts.

  • Deb Schultz

    No matter how “morally upstanding” these people think they sound, what they REALLY sound like they are is STUPID. For one thing, the fact that Mr. Trump is the candidate lies at the feet & doorstep of “the good ole’ boy GOP elitists”. For another thing, not voting or writing in is MUCH more dangerous than anything Mr.Trump has EVER said thus far. i would like to be able to scrutinize, in depth, the past words of ALL these “holier than thou” narcissistic, judgemental, hypocrites. And i would like them to show me one single person who God has used for His working that HAVEN’T sinned. Especially all the saints who walked the earth and were recruited, deliberately, during the days when Jesus was on this earth. HE used MANY MANY MANY true sinners and shattered vessels to do His work. And, lastly, they might do well to remember Deut. 32:35 (i’m thinking?) Vengeance is Mine. It is His task to judge Donald Trump not these self appointed “moral police”.

    • Becky

      You make it sound as if Trump will be doing things according to God’s word. He’s made it clear that he isn’t. Trump (and Hillary too, btw) is for everything that is against God (eg homosexuality, abortion). Btw, Christ used those that would say/do according to his word…nothing more and nothing less. They certainly didn’t say/do things that were meant to benefit a secular political system.

      • https://www.facebook.com/dailyjournalofnews/ GhostOwl

        Becky.. ur deceived by the lying mainstream media… get the blind fold off… youtube: Trump now is pro-life and will place Supreme Court judges that will repeal wade vs roe with Mike Pence… I’d be very careful how you judge God’s annointed. He humbled himself and repented to the world.

        • Johnny Monday

          If you believe any of that you’re a rube. Wake up.

        • Bill Scudder

          Trump will say anything to get your vote. So will Clinton.

      • Deb Schultz

        Hello … Mr. Trump IS AGAINST Planned Parenthood and abortion. Do you think by having a conservative Supreme Court, seeing to it that our freedom of religion/beliefs remain intact with no punishment for voicing them, safeguarding our country from Islam taking it over and for choosing a born-again Christian for a running mate (Mr. Pence) would not be what the Lord Jesus Christ would use Donald Trump to do ? Yes, that WOULD be Mr. Trump saying/doing (accordingly) for God’s word for His people … no more, no less, whatever. When Mr. Trump was ‘caught’ by the tapes, he did not lie, did not attempt to put the blame elsewhere … unlike Ms. Clinton. He accepted the responsibility and apologized … unlike Ms. Clinton (EVER). What stumps me is WHY, exactly, these GOP elites think Mr. Trump became the candidate ? Do they not understand that it HAD/HAS to be in God’s plan or it would not have happened ??? Do you understand that ?

        • Becky

          Hi Deb : ) Firstly, no need to say a thing about Hillary as I don’t agree with anything she represents. Secondly, Trump supports rape/incest abortions and endorses protecting the rights of homosexuals. He has stated this several times. Lastly…Pence…I like that he is 100% anti-abortion with no exceptions (unlike Trump/Hillary) and supported Indiana’s Religious Freedom Restoration Act. However, Pence is not a Christian…it doesn’t matter what he calls himself…he’s a Catholic…big difference.

          • Deb Schultz

            Hi … As for the rape/incest abortions, i don’t know so will go by what you just told me. He has promised, however to defund planned parenthood so we, as tax-payers, will not be paying for them. That’s a real good start, to me. May i ask who you are voting for ? i am sticking with Trump/Pence as they are, in my humble opinion, far better than Clinton/what’s his name ? Tim something or other ? Did you see any sense in what i said about it having to be in God’s plan that Trump is the candidate or he wouldn’t be ?

          • Becky

            I agree that Trump (and Hillary, too, btw) are where they are because it’s according to God’s plan. However, he’s definitely not God’s anointed, as some of Trump’s followers refer to him. Only the Kings of Israel were ever referred to as God’s anointed. Also, please recall Pharoah…he was placed there by God, however he was evil and defied God at every opportunity. There are many examples of this in scripture.

          • Deb Schultz

            Hi Becky … you are correct and i should have thought on some of those things. Although i have not, at least not yet, ever heard Trump refered to as God’s anointed. i have certainly never thought, nor said, that. i do know the story of Pharoah but i can’t equate Trump as doing evil and being defiant of God in his wishes for a healed nation. i do believe he has not truly repented and become born again but i believe he loves America and Americans. i also believe what he wants for our country is much closer to what God intended for us than Clinton’s plan. i believe God wants us … we the people … to go to the polls and vote for the person we believe will come the closest to His will as the leader of our country. i don’t know, Miss Becky, like SO MANY, i am confused by all of it. i also DO believe we are getting so close to the end of this world, life on this planet as it is now.

        • Bill Scudder

          Trump chose Pence to get your vote. God does not always get what he prefers. He gave Israel a King when He did not want them to have one so he gave them what they deserved. In Clinton and Trump maybe this was not Gods perfect will but we may be getting what we deserve .

          • Deb Schultz

            Absolutely agree it may be a case of getting what is deserved. But it is still, for whatever reason, somehow in God’s plan or it wouldn’t be happening. That is all i said.

  • ComeOnPeople!

    And so it , as it has been… people looking to a man to somehow turn around a country that has been corrupted, yet GOD gave the remedy, ” IF my people, which are called by my name, shall HUMBLE themselves, and PRAY, and SEEK my face, and TURN from their wicked ways; THEN will I hear from heaven, and will FORGIVE their sin, and will HEAL their land”

    • Bezukhov

      But I thought the primary concern of American Christians is to ensure that every elected office is held by Bible Thumping Republicans. ‘Cause Jesus won’t return until that happens.

      • ComeOnPeople!

        Um okay made no sense in reply to my post. And um NO.

        • Bezukhov

          Sorry. I wanted to reply to Becky.

  • Becky

    “James Dobson of Focus on the Family said in a statement on Tuesday that while he agreed the tape was terrible, it wasn’t enough to make him change his mind, citing the ‘cast the first stone’ clause from the biblical account of the woman caught in adultery.”

    Once again that quote is taken out of context…no one is going to stone Trump. Nevertheless, it’s not wise to dismiss the evil that has come out of his (and Hillary’s, too) heart. Furthermore, God’s word says that his people should make righteous judgments (John 7:24) and act upon them (James 5:20). Christ taught his disciples to rebuke and condemn evil and it’s no different today. Neither Trump or Hillary uphold God’s laws, in fact they defy them. Supporting Trump or Hillary, or anyone that openly defies God’s word, is siding against God Almighty.

    • dean29685

      You all seem to forget one important fact God is in control and for his reason and only his,
      secular rulers are put in control.

      • Becky

        I’m well aware of that. It certainly doesn’t mean that they’re goodly rulers. Secular rulers, whether chosen by the people or not, are in place to fulfill God’s plans.

    • B. Bunny

      Definitely out of context, as is the oft cited command not to judge. Christians must use discernment, and are required to do so when they cast their ballot. Nobody would be judging him if he were not asking for our vote. Shame on Dobson for distorting Biblical principles.

  • Bacchus

    Read the story of David and Bathsheba.

    Nothing is “indefensible.”

    • Grace Kim Kwon

      They are incomparably better than all moderners. They were not baby-killers or tyrannical Sodomites or silent watchers of the crimes.

    • B. Bunny

      You should read David’s repentance in Psalm 51 and compare it to Trump’s “I ate my little cracker and have my little wine” and “I am not sure I ever have” asked for forgiveness attitude. Do you really think Trump has repented, or is he just sorry he got caught? Does the culmination of his remarks during the campaign indicate a changed heart?

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    Trump just said the things all secular men think about women. The Democrats killing the human babies and selling their body parts is far worse crimes than insulting women. Women can dress up and behave properly and do not drink with strange men and retain safety; unborn children under the Democrats are truly defenseless.

    • james blue

      So women are groped and/or raped because they are not dressed properly and/or are drunk? They are to blame if they are raped or molested?

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        If they are scanty-dressed or drink with men or go to secluded places with men, yes, women are to be blamed for crimes as well as the rapists. It’s a common sense. Both Trump and Hillary reflect the nature of today’s America’s public. Non-christian America has no honor or meaning. USA needs Christianity to be good and transparent and justice-loving.

        • uninvitedguest

          How utterly ridiculous. It is not a woman’s fault that they are raped! It doesnt matter what they wear. It IS the rapists fault and their fault only. That statement removes any credibilty that you might have had

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are wrong. People do not walk around poor but armed neighborhood showing off cash in hands. It’s the same level of stupidity. The women who willfully sleep around since teenage years seem that they don’t mind being raped. Do they? If they do, they need to be more careful in their fashion and behaviour. It’s a common sense.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            WOW!! Insulting women again? Nice Christian woman you are, although starting to wonder if you even are a woman.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Yes, I’m a woman. You can’t expect anything good or decent from godless men. Women can be safe by proper behaviour and taking caution. Just that.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Wow! Not living here, but still claiming you know how people live here. You should stop reading the internet and go out into the world. But being a Christian homeschooler I’ll guess you live in your little safe Christian bubble. Have fun there.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            I went to public schools, too. When I was young, fortunately, the Western nations waren’t that immoral but largely very respectful and superior. We were all watching “The Little House on the Prairie” together. You grew up in a polluted world, Jolanda. There is a world lost forever to you. You never had the planet’s clean water. Pollution of the Planet Earth matches the secular West’s current mental illness. It is abhorrent to be enslaved by the Western Sodomites this century.

            Mankind must keep the honor of yesteryears’ normal Christian Westerners; that’s how Non-West should return the favor to the Western Civilization who brought us the Bibles, charity, universal literacy, medicine, and modern life. You try to look defend the Native Americans and others because you Western secularists wish that mankind would stay in illiteracy for-ever. Too late. You guys are a shame to your own parents.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Public schools is not the west.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Secular nations’ public schools are a servant to the West. Public schools were invented by the American Puritans, though. The West went wayward by losing Christianity.

          • Vince

            I love your attitude.

            “How DARE you think differently from ME! All women should think like ME! You can’t be real woman, or you would think the same thoughts I think!”

            The typical leftard – total lockstep conformist.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            So, Vince are you a sexist? Are you one of those men who pictures every beautifull woman naked. Cause it seems to me you agreeing with her that that every woman walking around”half naked” as she calls it, probably shorts and top very common when it’s very hot in the summer, asks to get raped?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Stop bullying. If women are dressed properly with modesty, it’s less likely men think about bad things.

          • uninvitedguest

            I think that ANY WOMAN would mind being raped. Your nonsensical rants are becoming less amusing and more frightening.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Be realistic. Because you guys are raised to be playboys by your filthy culture and have no female family members, you don’t care about women. It is dangerous for women to show skin to men or drink with them or go to isolated places with them. And a few women are truly up against destroying men’s lives intentionally because they slept around with any boys since teenage years. They are professional prostitutes. Anything goes where there is no chastity.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Wow!

          • Bob Johnson

            James Blue said that 13 hours ago.

          • uninvitedguest

            You need help

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            It’s true. Face the fact. You need to repent of your sin and ask God’s forgiveness to get saved. Read the Gospel of John.

          • uninvitedguest

            I prefer the Cat in the Hat by Dr Seuss

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            That’s for kids. Distasteful drawings. Stop shaming your Christian forefathers. All Westerners should read the Holy Bible to obtain the truth and salvation and human rights and freedom and justice like all others do. Because secular West doesn’t read the Holy Bible, they try to enslave mankind by homosexuality this century. Freedom is obtained by the Word of God, both now and then.

          • uninvitedguest

            Your bible is nothing more than fables. Im married with kids and gave a great career all without your holy book.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            I think many did.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You grew up in a Christendom and are repaying the good with evil to the Church. A bad descendant. Honor your father and your mother. Now doesn’t mean much. There is eternity ahead.

          • uninvitedguest

            You dont know me! Evil to the church? LOL!

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You’ve been fed and healed and educated by the Church. You and your families and ancestors at least for 1,000 years. Bad descendants to slander the Word of God. Shame on you!

          • uninvitedguest

            Shame on you, liar. The church has done absolutely nothing for me. Back to reality now

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            The Church raised America and you are a part of the recipients of all the good things. You just took her granted and has been ungrateful. Christianity has been the only conscience of America. You guys are illiterate savages like the rest without her.

          • uninvitedguest

            The only illiterate one here is you. You dont live here and know nothing about living in the states. Religion is the single most divisive thing in America. We would be much better off without it. Stick with what you know, otherwise you look very foolish.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Christian religion created the USA. Atheists kill babies or believers or both. You guys are naive because you were never dominated by evil foreign forces. Your problem is internal because you disrespect your own parents. I know USA; I read “Uncle Tom’s Cabin.” The way Western pervs try to enslave people of a clear conscience hasn’t changed a bit. You should read the Holy Bible, too, for America’s freedom.

          • uninvitedguest

            Your overt ignorance is overwhelming. This atheist has never killed anyone. Does mommy know you’re on the computer?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Time reveals the true nature. America was never attacked and you have no idea on raw human nature of atheists. I’m very old and am on my own. The Soviets believed in their own goodness, too. Atheists are futile. Russia bounced back to Christianity after massacring millions of Christians.

          • uninvitedguest

            Im not your son, babe. Atheism is not evil. It is simply the disbelief in ANY gods. Not just yours.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Atheism is evil. Read Psalm ch.14 and John ch.3. The world history which American non-believers never study is the proof all over the world. Americans impose homosexuality on others because they are new generations of atheists. Christian Americans promote truth and freedom.

          • uninvitedguest

            Nothing evil about atheism. Your own opinion and nothing more. Christians on this site promote discrimination and divisiveness. You included. You need help.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            God said that atheists are evil and human history proved it. You are the one who is trying to silence me here. Christian American fathers taught the world to battle back against bullies. Atheists have no fairness or logic.

          • uninvitedguest

            I’m not trying to silence anyone. Atheists arent evil as a whole. I dont care what your imaginary diety has to say. You’re the bully. Wanting a theocracy was not what the founding fathers invisioned for OUR nation.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            God created you and everyone else. Atheists are being evil by blaspheming and killing the human babies and forcing homosexuality and bullying the Christians into submission. USA is a Christian theocracy like all other European nations are: America’s Mayflower Compact and Declaration of Independence and national anthems declare that Americans submit only to God. Founding Fathers never imagined USA would become a Sodom and persecute Christians for living out the truth. USA forces Sodomy on the world because the nation became godless. USA needs Christianity for life and morality.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Uhm, you wished that the US and European nation would be a theocracy. Last time I checked my nation is still secular. There is a reason we have seperation of church and state, making sure crazy Christians like you can’t rule the world.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            The West was a Christendom before and accomplished much and abolished many human evils without external interferances, unlike all others. The only thing they had to do was to return to the Biblical teachings to do what is right. Godless secularism promotes blasphemy and conducts infanticide and forces homosexuality and enslaves mankind with forced falsehood. The West needs Christianity to be humane again. It’s Christian and free or Sodom, for the West and their servant nations; there is no middle ground. Democracy works properly only among the Christian people and their mimickers.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            The main religion in the west was Christianity, but the west was never a theocracy. We here in the west are very humane. It is the Christians who think not everyone should have the same rights as they do. We still have freedom of religion, hence we have so many different religions. But we have also freedom from religion, meaning Christians can’t force their religion on a public school where a lot of people from ‘different religions’ study. You and your ilk don’t like it? Too bad.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            The West was superior and humane and civilized only because of Bible-literate Christianity. Humanism developed out of Christian compassion but it turned into human-worships and the massacre of unborns over the course of time. When man is placed as the center instead of the one true Creator God, he really has no meaning to live or let others live. The West is losing freedom as it’s losing Christianity; that’s why they mock Christianity their only sane conscience and disrespect God and the parents because the people want to engage in immorality for-ever without condemnation of sin.

            In next some decades, many secular Westerners and their mimickers will be extinct from the collapse of intact family units. Many of them may commit suicide from meaninglessness by seeing only immoral descendants. The trouble is overwhelming, but the abysmal thing is the fact that today’s young people will abuse children. That’s the #1 concern for today’s Western-style secularism. They won’t leave children alone, other normal people’s children at that. Each amoral generation will be worse and more chaotic than the previous ones and triggar God’s wrath on earth, though decent people have rights to life. The Lord knows.

            Different religions and ideologies other than Judeo-Christian values have no concept of human rights or freedom or equality. The Westerners know that and they claim “different religions” just to diminish Christianity’s moral influence so that everyone could be as immoral as secular nudists are. Colored people actually have habits of not-opposing the white people. The Western authorities know that, too. It’s a quite nightmarish circus of Sodomic West and the obedient others. Without the Holy Bible, neither the West or the Non-West have any true dignity or freedom. No Bible = No freedom or decency.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Oh wow, you can predict the future now. Uhm, claiming different religions? It’s a fact.

            How is the west loosing freedom? People are still free to believe or not to believe.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            It’s in the Holy Bible. Read it. The Western culture forces people to pay for infanticide and to call homosexual depravity marriage and prohibits treating people by their birth genders and places men in women’s restrooms. It’s not freedom; it’s tyranny by falsehood. Hans Christian Andersen’s “The Naked King” is a European story. Everyone was forced to praise a well-fed rich perv. Truth was needed for liberty.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            You mean ‘the emperor new clorhes’. *facepalm* woman you really need help.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            It is “The Naked King” in my cultural sphere. I didn’t know the original title. Sorry. I had given you the author’s name and you got the correct book anyway. Read it and learn how people get tricked into an unthinkable falsehood collectively. Slavery by falsehood should be rejected by the people. The West has no rights to enslave mankind with sexual perversion. You guys need Christianity to be humane and moral. People have rights to strive after the truth and morality. No more slavery. More than enough atrocities have been done. The Americans, the defender of the freedom, are taking the role of villains this century. So sad.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Sodomic West won’t be able to subdue mankind. Slavery by racists was bad enough. Slavery by pervs is unacceptable. God will intervene and judge the world before the West makes a huge Sodom on Planet Earth. Civilizations get justice when the evil is ripe. (Genesis ch.15) The West and its mental servant nations are not exception.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            We where the first nation to have abortion law, the first to have euthanesia law, the first to have gay rights, the first to have SSM, we are still waiting for the giant fireball to consume us.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            And the first nation to kill healthy old people. Nothing to boast about. You are losing the land to foreigners. Wake up. Wear decent outfit in public places.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Uhm, one political party wants it to become a law, it isn’t one.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            That’s bad enough. How can anyone conceive such an evil idea? The West needs Christianity for life and life’s meaning. A lot of people desire to commit suicide in better-off nations because they are ungrateful to God.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Ever volunteered at a suicide helpline? If you did get back to me.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            I talked to people who contemplated suicide. It’s ingratitude to God and momental anger or despair. Prolonged bullying is found the hardest to be lived with among the youth. What problem did you find?

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            LGBT teens who wanted to commid suicide because their Christians parents threw them out. LGBT teens being bullied for being homosexual.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            LGBT teens want to commit suicide because nobody teaches them God’s standard and His Gospel properly and are made believe they have rights to sexual immorality. Clinging to falsehood creates despair. Liberalism’s education also trains them to belittle human life. They need to learn God’s decrees and callings for repentance and the Gospel of Jesus Christ for full life.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Maybe it’s hard for you to understand, but not everything is about your God. I know you whished it was, but allas.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            It is. People are tormented if they are taught falsehood as something right, especially young people. Present secular culture is toxic to human souls. “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans ch.6)

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Knew you wouldn”t understand.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            It’s deadly cultural defects of today’s West, Jolanda. The cannibals and pedophiles and incestists and slave owners struggled a lot to give up the barbarism. When sin is permissible, people struggle more than necessary. Every man needs God’s Truth to obtain life.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Uhm, the US was never attacked? And you claim I don’t know world history? How about Pearl Harbor, the Twin Towers?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            USA was never subdued by foreign forces and does not know what it means to be enslaved by evil men. It is unacceptable that the world has to obey to perv West this century praising their despicable nudism. It nullifies every contribution of the entire Western civilization and of everyone else. The entire thing looks like a huge joke; Americans are being so submissive to Sodomites. The drugging must be working very fine. You guys are being severely bored by having all the blood money. Give mankind a break from slavery.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            So reading Uncle Tom’s cabin makes you a expert on the USA? Wow, I think I need to read it again.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Yes, the book says a lot! The last slave owner truly resembles today’s perv Westerners who demand submission to abnormal evil. Read Fredererick Douglass, too.

          • Becky

            Yet, you, a heathen, are here on a Christian site Lol. There’s nothing you can offer any Christian…ever.

          • uninvitedguest

            Tell me that tge next time i see a christians child in the hospital. You are the only heathen here

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            I loved that book as a kid.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Never heard of consenting adults? If a woman sleeps around as you say and consents to having sex, it’s not rape. If a woman is forced by a man after clearly saying no, it is rape. See the difference here?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            If the women are showing the skin or drink with men or go to dark places or enclosed place with men, it will be taken as consent for men. Actions speak louder than words. Women should try the best to keep self safe if rape should be avoided. Secularism doesn’t care about anyone’s safety and wants a lot of women sleeping around and kill the unborns to make money. Secular women are victims of stupid unrealistic education, but stupidity is one’s own fault. And men become despair and hopeless as they have nothing to protect in this world. Such men run for violence. It’s a tragedy for both parties and for children. You should “honor your father and your mother.” ( Exodus ch.20)

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Like someone else said to you on this thread, you need help. Goodbye.

          • NCOriolesFan

            Right, never the woman’s fault for getting drunk, taking men home with them, having one night stands. Hey babe, takes two to tango.

            Say that again – I can’t hear you.

            Every person is responsible for HIS or HER actions.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            So, if a woman is raped it’s her fault?

        • james blue

          Wow.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Secular Western culture endangers women by improper education, although anything goes for non-virgins anyway. The West should not place men in women’s bathrooms.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            By improper education? Seriously? I know women who are better educated then men.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Secularism teaches women to be willful prostitutes and to destroy manhood among men by making them irresponsible playboys. Poor soldiers to die for a homeland full of unchaste women and drug addicts. Maybe that’s why many US soldiers commit suicide…

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            So every western woman is a prostitute? Wow, more insults.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Every woman who WILLFULLY sleeps outside of marriage is a prostitute. It’s a practical fact. Read my comment correctly. Stop bullying, Jolanda. I can believe you are a woman, but be truthful.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            So insulting my cousin now? Nice going. She is not married to her partner and they have one child. But in your eyes she is a prostitute because she is not married?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            They should get married right away. Why haven’t they?

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Wow and more insults.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Tell them to get married. Truth-telling is not an insult but the true love. Co-habitation is sin, but one man and one woman can make things right by marrying. “You shall not commit adultery. …Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.” ( Exodus ch. 20, Hebrews ch.13)

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            So truth telling is not insult? Okay!

            Truth and not insult. You are a crazy fundementalist Christian who is mentaly unstable and need help.

            Probebly will be flagged by you and deleted. Maybe gets me banned.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            I never flagged you, not in my memory. Say whatever you want about me. I used to use politically correct language before, but I shortly realized using it the truth can never be communicated with any secular Westerners. The Holy Bible is not politically correct, either, because it is true. The secular Westerners get really really horrified at any race-related languages although they have no trouble blaspheming God and butchering the human babies and going naked in the streets. Planet Earth is a strange world. I will continue pray that you will repent of your unbelief and trust in Jesus and get saved. Did you read “The Dog of Flanders”? I don’t think I was able to return to the section even if you replied. It is British literature although it takes place in your homeland. “Little Women” is an excellent American literature to understand USA as well. Read the originals, not altered versions.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Maybe that’s why many US soldiers commit suicide…

            You really don’t have a clue, do you?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Secular men are sad men; they have no real maidens for them like yesteryears. If women seek power and pleasures like men do, they will not stay faithful to the men who’d consume their lives for families. If men had no real mothers, they would not know how to cherish women. Pleasure-seekers are irresponsible and do not value children. And it becomes a meaningless world with just a bunch of deteriorating playboys and prostitutes who are for-ever teenagers in mind. And to have to risk life to preserve such a world… Sad. What’s the use of possessing everything when a man does not have proper descendants? Nothing. Man should live for the glory of God. Godless nations have no honor or meaning.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Yep!

    • Jolanda Tiellemans

      Wow, you can read minds? What am I thinking right now?

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        Jolanda, stop bullying and mocking. Be serious about life.

  • Nidalap

    Your choice is your own.
    Know this, however.
    If you change your vote or just stay home over this issue, you WILL be doing exactly what the Democrats had in mind when they orchestrated this little “October surprise”…

  • Becky

    Secular political systems will never be in favor of God or his people…it’s further being structured to act against God and persecute his people…Christ warned us. Only God Almighty through Christ our Lord can save us from all that is currently occurring and what will come (pestilence, plagues, famine, anti-Christ laws, etc). When Christ returns all secular political systems will not be retained…they will be destroyed by Him. Trust that God Almighty is in control and choose to be only on His side.

  • Duke of Dixieland

    No such thing as “indefensible.” Paul called himself the “chief of sinners.” God works with very rotten material at times.

    • Becky

      Yes, indeed, Paul said that about himself. However, he wasn’t running for a secular political office neither was he concerned about secular things. Paul’s position was that of an Apostle…he was busy spreading the gospel according to the Word of God. I do believe that God is using Trump and Hillary according to his plan, but it certainly doesn’t mean that Trump (and especially Hillary) are doing this to honor God. Their interests are purely secular and you can see that by what they’re wanting to accomplish (homosexual marriage, abortions, etc).

      • Bezukhov

        But I thought the primary concern of American Christians is to ensure that every elected office is held by Bible Thumping Republicans. ‘Cause Jesus won’t return until that happens.

  • Pat

    You need not be an apologist for Trump, but you really do need to vote for him. The alternative of Hillary Clinton is much, much worse for America.

  • NCOriolesFan

    They now blame the liberal media for taking their petition out of context with an update in Campus Reform – http://wwwDOTcampusreformDOTorg/?ID=8260

  • Dianne

    Woe to the REBELLIOUS children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add SIN to SIN:

    That walk to go down into Egypt, and have not asked at my mouth; to strengthen THEMSELVES in the strength of Pharaoh, and to trust in the shadow of Egypt!

    Therefore shall the strength of Pharaoh be YOUR SHAME and the trust in the shadow of EGYPT your CONFUSION. Isaiah 30:1-3

  • Karen

    We still have to decide who is better for this country. Both candidates have baggage, but we need to look beyond that and focus on the issues that effect our country. BTW, Bill Clinton was in office when his scandal broke and he remained in office.

  • Crusader777

    How could anyone who calls their self a Christian vote for HRC or the Democratic Party? Have you read the platform?
    Project Veritas and Wikileaks have provided enough proof of just how evil HRC and her cronies are to put them away for life. Two of them had to resign today amid the horrid scandals.
    You actually would vote for her just because DJT talked about a woman’s anatomy 11 years ago? The DNC has shown just how desperate and crooked they are on so many levels do you seriously think these Accusers of DJT are authentic?
    Jesus knew about false accusers as He went before Pilot and Caiaphas. I am sure He would vote Trump/Pence 2016 without hesitation.