Evidence of a Young Moon? Study Forces Scientists to Rethink Lunar Dating Techniques

moonCould the moon be younger than most realize? A new study shows that craters on the moon form quicker than previously thought, which means many features on the lunar surface are not as old as astronomers had predicted.

Astronomers at Arizona State University and Cornell University recently set out to measure the formation rate of craters on the moon. To do so, they compiled thousands of high-resolution “before and after” images of the moon’s surface captured by NASA’s Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter. The amount of time that elapsed between the before and after pictures varied, ranging from 176 to 1,241 days.

After collecting the images, the astronomers ran the photographs through computer software that identified any changes between the “before and after” images. The results showed that the moon’s surface as shown in the “after” images is spotted with more than 200 new craters that did not exist when the initial batch of photographs was captured.

“From this temporal dataset, we detected 222 new impact craters,” the astronomers wrote in a paper published by “Nature” on Thursday. The largest craters they identified were about 140 feet in diameter.

The scientists were surprised to find this many new impact craters on the moon’s surface because NASA’s Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter launched fairly recently, in 2009. That means that all 222 of the craters identified by the researchers must have formed in the past seven years, which is 33 percent more than current models had predicted.

“There are more fresh craters measuring at least 10 meters across than standard cratering calculations would suggest,” wrote “Nature” science journalist Alexandra Witze. “This could mean that some young lunar surfaces may be even younger than thought.”

Because crater-counting is one way to estimate the age of a planetary surface, astronomers say that they will need to revisit their dating estimates of the moon’s surface.

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“Planetary geologists will also need to rethink their understanding of the age of the lunar surface, which depends on counting craters and estimating how long the terrain has been pummeled by impacts,” Witze said.

Not only does this study invalidate the idea that craters only form over long eras, but the research suggests that these regular impacts could completely alter the surface of the moon within a timescale of thousands—not millions—of years.

“I’m excited by the fact that we can see the regolith evolve and churn—a process that was believed to take hundreds of thousands to millions of years to occur—in images acquired over the past several years,” one of the researchers told “Space.com.”

Citing various pieces of evidence, Christian scientists reason that the moon’s age is significantly younger than most evolutionary scientists estimate. Dr. Jason Lisle, an astrophysicist with the Institute for Creation Research, says the moon “moves about an inch and a half farther away from the earth every year” due to tidal interactions with the earth, which means it is almost certainly not billions of years old.

“Six thousand years ago, the moon would have been about 800 feet (250 m) closer to the earth (which is not much of a change considering the moon is nearly a quarter of a million miles, or 400,000 km, away),” Lisle writes in his book “Taking Back Astronomy.”

“So this ‘spiraling away’ of the moon is not a problem over the biblical time scale of 6,000 years, but if the earth and moon were over 4,000,000,000 years old (as big-bang supporters teach), then we would have big problems,” he says. “This is because the moon would have been so close that it would actually have been touching the earth less than 1.5 billion years ago. This suggests that the moon can’t possibly be as old as secular astronomers claim.”


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  • Grace Kim Kwon

    Yes! There are so many evidences that the universe is young. Atheists talk about billions of years only so that people would believe nothingness created something over time. Time is no magic and a very long time creates nothing. No such thing was observed and never will.
    God created the heavens and the earth. By Jesus and for Him. (Genesis ch.1, John ch.1, Colossians ch.1)

    • TwoRutRoad

      See my post. Do the math.

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        The heavenly bodies may be moving at different rate; the number billions or millions of years is void in any case. And if heavenly bodies are that close to each other, they could get crushed to each other long ago instead of moving away from each other. Old moon is not the case by probability.

        • disqus_SUijHfDO8w

          Reread the bible, it does not teach a young earth.

          • Kevin Quillen

            disqus; yes it does. Six days about 6,000 years ago. Research “soft tissue” in dinosaur bones.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            It does. Both the Holy Bible and scientific data point towards a young universe. There are still many mysteries to solve( scientists have no perfect model to explain the formation of the universe), but it is far more probable that God created a finished universe as recorded in Genesis ch.1.

        • TheKingOfRhye

          The leading theory on how the moon was formed is that it was by a collision between the very-early planet Earth and another large, planet-sized object. So, yes, in one way, the Earth and Moon were very close…..they were kind of the same thing at one point. It doesn’t violate any laws of physics or anything like that.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            The solar system is too well-calculated and perfectly-tuned for sustaining life on Planet Earth. And we know it’s not a coincidence since mankind has the Creator’s signatured Writing, the Holy Scripture, that says He made everything. The Americans are not appreciated by mankind for all their inventions because today’s Americans ignore the Creator God. Honest people acknowledge God. Educated people remember Christian Americans’ contributions. Atheists deny God because they want to continue their evil on earth. ( Psalms ch.14, John ch.3)

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    Universe is huge but Israel is located only on Planet Earth. God values Israel more than the laws of physics He established in the universe. ( Jeremiah ch.33) Jesus Christ, God Himself, was in Israel on Earth. Earth may be a tiny speck in the universe, but unequally valuable to God because of His people. We are living in God’s wonder land.
    Praise God for all His creation! Hallelujah!

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    The truth far more profound than the entire universe:

    “He(Jesus) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For
    by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on
    earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or
    principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for
    Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. And
    He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the
    firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.” (Colossians ch.1)

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    “Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling,
    and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy,
    To God our Savior, who alone is wise, be glory and majesty, dominion and power,
    both now and forever. Amen.” (Jude ch.1)

    • Jenny Ondioline

      What’s all this got to do with the moon being real?

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        The Creator God created both the moon and you. We praise Him for His creation world.

  • TwoRutRoad

    This article is wrong. Do the math. An inch and a half every year:

    1.5 inches x 4,000,000,000 years = 6,000,000,000 inches.
    6,000,000,000 inches / 12 = 500,000,000 feet.
    500,000,000 feet / 5280 = 94,696.969697 miles. She’s clear by 150,000 miles.

    That’s without considering gravitational changes over these distances.

    • Ann Kah

      Consider the source: how much accuracy did you expect?

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    The sun is shrinking at certain rate and the billions of years of its age is impossible and not even millions. Atheists do not have even one valid model for the formation of the universe because actually God created and designed all.

    • disqus_SUijHfDO8w

      The sun is not shrinking. While its losing mass, there is a battle between fusion and gravity that is ongoing. The fusion is trying to push everything out, while the gravity is trying to pull it in. As of the moment the sun’s diameter is fairly stable and is not shrinking at any alarming rate, especially the rate in which the YEC group is preaching.

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        losing mass = shrinking or spent out

        • TheKingOfRhye

          “losing mass = shrinking”

          Sorry, that’s just not true. Something can lose mass while remaining the same size, or in other words, not shrinking.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Not determined yet. Mankind knows only fractions.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Huh? It’s just physics, really…I mean, density.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            God designed and created a finished universe 6,000 years ago. That explains the best even as far as mankind’s present knowledge goes. Not everything develops into something. Somethings just appear.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Which has nothing to do with what I said at all.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Be honest. Scientists can’t even agree on the sun. The best explanation and model is the creation of a finished universe by the Creator God.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Uh, that still has nothing at all to do with my point.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            The sun is not billions of years old. Atheists want billions of years to give time some magical powers. No such thing was observed. Everything Anti-Bible is a sheer speculation. Reality opposes it and does not back it up.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Which has what exactly to do with mass and density again?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            It depends on the element. You’ve learned it.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Huh?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Mass and density’s relationship.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I still am not following you. Yeah, different kinds of matter has different densities..and that has what to with being “anti-Bible” now?

  • ComeOnPeople!

    To which I reply… the scripture says HE made the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night. The moon is simply that a light created by the CREATOR to shine in the night sky.

    • Tangent002

      The moon is not a ‘light’ at all. It reflects light from the sun.

      • TwoRutRoad

        it’s easy to see why the authors of the bible said it was a light. They did not know where the sun went at night, or that some of the stars they saw were planets in our own solar system (reflecting light) and some were actually entire galaxies with billions of their own stars.

        • ComeOnPeople!

          The author was the Spirit of GOD moving upon men to pen what HE had created. I think the CREATOR knows what HE made.

      • ComeOnPeople!

        So you were told. The other night you could look straight through the moon and see clouds behind it. If it were solid then that would not be possible. Funny how I looked up last night and the sun and the moon were both visible, one to the left and the other to my right until the sun disappeared . hmmmm Sorry the word of GOD says HE created the sun and the moon and that they are both lights. One to rule the day and the other to rule the night. If I believe what man says, which by the way is now being proven was a big fake, then I must discount the CREATOR. NOPE sorry HIS words are true and evil men distort HIS creation. Not to mention I tend to believe my eyes.

        • TheKingOfRhye

          You can’t see through the moon, that’s an impossibility. Seeing the moon and the sun at the same time is nothing unusual; it just comes down to how they’re lined up with respect to Earth.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            I have seen through the moon on many occasions . My eyes work quite well but Im sure it can be explained away just like the flat horizon seen by hundreds across oceans and lakes that by all logic should not be visible. They are all told it’s a mirage . Um ok.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I’ll ask this again, because you didn’t answer me before. If the moon is a light and not a solid object, explain what happens in a solar eclipse…..when the moon blocks out the sun’s light while giving no light of it’s own. And I’ve seen that with my own two eyes, by the way. (Through a welding mask of course…lol)

          • Bob Johnson

            And we can all see it again on August 21, 2017 – right across the middle of the USA.

            And during the total part you do not need dark glasses.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Yeah, I might even make a trip for that. The one I saw was an annular eclipse, not a total one.

          • Bob Johnson

            I’ll be heading for Wyoming, best chance for clear skies.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            I see and the explanation of such you obtained from who? Nasa maybe a 60 million dollar sucking corporation . How about they tern those cameras around so we can see the moon. Ask them to do so and for some odd reason they can’t do so and yet we have come 60 years forward since these grand feats . Start asking questions yourself or has the spaghetti monster eaten up parts of your brain and you can no longer us it to form your own opinions or do your own research.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            You tell me to ask questions, but you never answered mine. If the moon is a light and not a solid object, explain a solar eclipse.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Tell you what first you explain the spinning ball eclipse narrative and then I will try to explain a flat earth eclipse . I actually have a video made by a pilot who altered his course just to get an amazing video of a solar eclipse . That video is not only amazing but much more fits a flat earth then a spinning ball earth. So please explain first what you were taught by the text books and the media and then I will send you actual videos if you like and give you what very brilliant minds thought an eclipse was before the narrative changed.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I’m not talking about whether the earth is flat or round here, that’s not part of my question at the moment. What I’m talking about is a solar eclipse…when the moon goes between the Sun and the Earth, blocking out the Sun’s light. I ask you for the third time now, how would that be possible if the Moon was a light and not a solid object?

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Answer how this eclipse works and I will answer you.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I said that. The Moon goes between the Sun and the Earth, blocking the Sun’s light. Like I said before, I’ve personally seen such a thing happening.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            That is such a scientific answer ahaha You have not proven your stance and yet you believe I must prove mine. Funny how those who follow the status quo and only parrot what they have been told want those who refuse to do so to offer proof for their stance.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I explained what an eclipse is. It’s a pretty simple thing really, nothing too complicated about it. You said you would answer my question, yet you still refuse to do so. Actually, I can’t ask you to”prove your stance” regarding eclipses; I have no idea what your stance on them IS. If they’re not what I said, then what are they?

          • ComeOnPeople!

            You don’t know what they are yourself but are only parroting what media tells you.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I said exactly what eclipses are. I don’t think I can explain it any more clearly. There’s really not much to it. The moon gets in the way of the sun, from our point of view. It just so happens that while the sun is about 400 times farther from us than the moon is, the sun’s about 400 times the size, so they look the same size to us, and then you have total eclipses. As for seeing the moon and sun at the same time, like I said before that’s nothing unusual at all. Sometimes the moon is in the day sky, ( if it wasn’t, there would never be eclipses!) and thanks to the sun’s light reflecting off of it, it’s so bright it can be seen at times.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Watch this compiled video … Eclipses Above Flat Earth by Dorje Daka . I would need to spend hours to explain the subject of an eclipses . Just as spinning marble people have a theory of an eclipse so to do those who believe in a flat earth. Just as you are not a scientist and used information handed to you so to I am sending you to a video I believe helps to explain my view. Do I understand all there is to know in regard to how our universe works… no. I only know that a CREATOR created it all and gave us the account of such. Because the globe model did not fit the description given, I started to question the narrative taught to me in school. Biblically the flat earth model fits and the marble spinning around in space around the sun does not.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            See, when you said “Answer how this eclipse works and I will answer you” I thought you meant that would actually answer me, not direct me to some video. You’re accusing me of having information handed to me….but when I ask you for an explanation of how you see something, in your own words…..you send me to a video? I’ve got news for you, you’re having information handed to you just as much as, if not more than I am.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Which is what I said… “Just as you are not a scientist and used information handed to you so to I am sending you to a video I believe helps to explain my view.” … You went to the net and copied info to explain your position and I am sending you to a video to explain mine.

            There are people around the world who are testing the globe model using high tech cameras, pilot info, observations of the sun,moon and stars and water levels and sight perceptions. Much of technology never offered the average person the ability to see past their own field of vision until the techno age. Everyone got their info from the media not their own perception or from using technology to prove that info for themselves. Today people are using technology to verify what they see and also the things that don’t add up on a globe model. Have you heard of the private rocket sent up which is the most powerful of any privately funded rockets? That rocket had cameras on it. That footage could not disprove or prove either the globe model or the flat earth model, until someone noticed the moon in the sky on the footage. That person found out the time of the filming in Nevada and typed that info into the moon location web page. The moon if the world is a ball would have been not up in the Nevada sky at that time but in Australia in that position. There are many more people who are using science, observation and technology to disprove the spinning marble. I am neither a scientist nor a tech person and can only use observation and my constant love for truth. Therefore like yourself I rely on the info available . The difference is that I study all info not just the main stream info. When I looked at all the history, science and debates over the course of time to this present day… the flat earth model comes out on top as truth and the other as wishful thinking and propaganda to the masses.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Again you have had the spinning marble handed to you via school text books and media for years and yet you want me to sit down and explain all on a blog about a flat earth. There are those who have done much research and people of all walks of live doing personal research and the information is available. Me directing you to available info is not saying I have not done my homework, it is saying here go look at what is available and then start on your own journey of study.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            If the Earth is flat, how is that any given time, it’s day for half of the earth, and night for the other half? How is it that people in the Southern Hemisphere see an almost completely different set of constellations at night?

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Okay, I guess I was bored or something, because I actually watched that whole video. It didn’t offer any more of an alternative explanation of what eclipses are than you have! All it was, was 18 minutes of the guy giving different reasons why the usual explanation is not right…and by the way, I have to add, I was able to figure out what he was getting wrong almost right away.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I’ll ask you a few more questions, because I guess I just can’t give this a rest for some reason.

            If the Earth is flat, how it possible that any given time, half the planet is in day, and the other half is in night?

            How is it possible that I’ve never been even close to being south of the Equator, and there are well-documented constellations that I have never seen? (I definitely pay attention to things like that.)

            And, finally, why??? You, and most other folks who believe in a flat Earth, either imply or just come out and say, that there’s some sort of vast conspiracy designed to have the people think the planet is round. Why? What would the world leaders and scientists have to gain by that?

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Because on a flat earth the sun and moon revolve from horizontally above us within the firmament of the earth.

            Hmmmm I know of many who study the stars and see all the constellations from their place on earth.

            Because of the total take over of one of the theories without real prove. That’s not how science works. Science works on proof. Take a ball and get it wet and try to make water stay on it. Spin that ball and it’s even harder. That model cannot be proven . Yet take a flat dish with a border and fill it with water and you get what the whole earth demonstrates . The water always remains level . Tip that plate and you get flowing water, thus demonstrating different planes on a flat earth. Gravity is a theory and not proven. Gravity cannot explain a tiny bird or even a massive bird not being pulled down in flight. It cannot explain a kite flying threw the air with the slightest breeze. Or bubbles floating on a breezeless day. Or how about helium balloons set loose at a party.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            The first answer, I don’t even understand what exactly that means. The second answer, either you’re lying to me, or the people who told you that are lying to you.

            And….are you really trying to tell me gravity doesn’t exist? Wow. I’ll tell you what: go up to the roof of your house, step over the edge, and tell me what happens.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            I can explain jumping off a building simply as falling to the lowest point below me just as water always goes to the lowers point. Yet a ball if hit with a bat is not slung to the ground because force projects it outward until it looses momentum and then it falls. An Eagle does not fly it soars. It literally falls from the sky and then catches the air currents. Kites do the same, they use the wind to keep them from settling to the lowest point. Bubbles drift in the air and are not forced by anything to the ground , most times bopping before every coming down. The list is endless. Go out and test gravity and the spinning earth. They are impossible when grouped together. Think about throwing a ball up , yes it comes straight down… what happened to the earth spinning at over 1,000 miles and hour? How about the wind itself? It comes from all directions, Yes? How so with a spin of over 1,000 miles an hour? My hand out a car window going 50 mph only feels the wind against it in one direction and is not pulled downward and yet a spinning earth has winds coming from all directions and gravity holds everything down? Sorry but if I take a wet tennis ball which is your spinning earth model and spin it as fast as I can the water on that ball is going to fly off and most of that water will center around the middle. Now if I take a flat plate with a rim and put objects in it. fill the rest with water guess what that model is doable. The water does just what our eyes see it is level around the objects. Funny how gravity is holding us all down and yet gravity allows a tornado to sling us around like rag dolls and still our 1,000 mph wind from the spinning earth does nothing. The flat earth model fits what scripture says to a tee. It fits the earth, sun, moon, stars, water and the wind and it places us in the center of it all. Not a just another unimportant planet out of many spinning mindlessly in space but a CREATION of GOD , the apple of HIS eye. A world CREATED for HIS CREATION that provided everything we needed to survive. Sorry I’m not on just another planet, There are no aliens (but there are demons) and I was CREATED not evolved from pond scum or an animal.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “falling to the lowest point below me”

            Yeah, and do you know WHY that happens? You’re not gonna believe this….gravity!

            I’ve noticed that several times now, you’ve said things like “spinning pebble” or compared the Earth to something like a tennis ball. Think about that for a minute. What’s the difference from the Earth ( even some supposed “flat Earth”) and a pebble or a tennis ball? What makes one of those things not like the others? Why might that be not a valid comparison?

            Also, no one ever said gravity can never be counteracted by another force. I don’t know where you’re getting that idea from, that if anything can ever resist gravity, that means it doesn’t exist. I find that….baffling.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            I find it baffling that people take every word or picture put out by the media as truth and never question the narrative or do their own evaluations. I find it baffling that people must all believe and follow like sheep what is spun towards them or they are crazy. To me the crazy ones are those who cannot use reason or study for themselves and prove the narratives to be false or true. My spinning ball comments are the model that is in every text book. The earth toted as round & spinning well over a 1,000 MPH, which when put into model form just does not hold water. I am not alone and more and more people are starting to question the narrative handed to them. Believe what you wish but at least do an audit on your beliefs. Enough said on topic. Do your own research as I will continue to do mine.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Also, you don’t understand science, if you say something is a “theory and not proven.”

            And gravity actually explains why a helium balloon rises. Helium is lighter than air, so gravity pulls the air down with more force. If there were no gravity, the balloon would just float wherever…along with everything else not bolted down, including you and I.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Nope sorry not proven look it up. Birds are not pulled down. Bugs are not pulled down. The earth is not spinning because if it were a plane could not land on a run way, a ball thrown up into the sky would not come straight down but come down away from the tosser. A blimp was used to test the spinning earth theory in England it remained neutral for a hours and hours and they said it would end up in NY via the spinning earth’s and yet it remained right there in England, the earth did not move way from it. A hand stuck out a fast moving car is about taken off and yet you think the earth can be spinning far far greater and we do not feel it. I go maybe 10 miles an hour max on a merry go round and get dizzy and yet the earth is spinning over 1,000 miles an hour and we don’t know it? COME ONE! Science is based off of models and no one has ever been able to take a spinning ball dipped in water and duplicate what they claim. Yet you can duplicate a flat earth in model form.

            I just saw amazing footage of a personal high tech drone flying over some of the most beautiful places in America, Alaska and Canada and guess what? NO CURVE what so ever for as far as you can see. Saw the most powerful private rocket flight cam footage and no curve. Also saw footage of a person taking a camera and filming as they traveled across lake Erie and guess what the supposed mirage didn’t go away the buildings just got more and more clear the closer they got.

            I could go on and on of why I have changed my view about what is fed to us since birth but hey people can keep following the pied piper if they want to , they just shouldn’t expect everyone to join them. To much info out there and not only that … our own observations and eyes are refusing to believe something contrary to what we see. Stop listening to everyone tell you about your world and go out and do some of your own studies.

        • TwoRutRoad

          I’ve about had enough of you calling us evil. Up until now, I haven’t lowered myself to your level of communication. I’m being critical of your belief, but I haven’t called you names. That would be insensitive, cruel, and would show desperation.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Who is us?

          • Bob Johnson

            Well, two people up voted the comment. So three people – that should qualify for “us”.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I’m one of “us”

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Well to bad more of like minded groupies are not on this stupid chat so I could try to intimidate everyone and use the big US and WE. ahaha Naw they most likely are off doing their homework. Believe it or not history and science had many many more people who believe like myself then those who believe in a spinning marble. But hey your wonderful narrative will never let you know that.

            Funny how the USA and other countries locked down the North pole right after the space program. Hmmm WHY? Why not allow private explorers to come in and explore the North pole? Why make a treaty with every nation that forbids it? Would something there debunk their narrative ? And what of the missing footage on the nasa north pole feeds where the shadows on the snow and flags show do not support their claims so they cut out hours of time. Hmmm thought it was all sun light at the north pole for certain months. Ask them and they give you crazy answers like oops our cameras were having trouble. For 6 months!? REALLY! But hey in this wonderful age of technology and nasa’s 60 million dollar operation, I’m sure good camera’s are hard to come by.

          • Bob Johnson

            What do you mean by the North Pole doesn’t allow private explorers? Not only is there a lot of private research companies working up there, commercial airlines fly over the North Pole daily. And you don’t have to go to the North Pole to be in the land of the midnight sun. Anywhere north of Fairbanks will do. My niece works on the Alaska pipeline – all summer she never sees a sunset. By the way, they have plenty of good paying jobs, cooks, truck drivers, mechanics – so go check it out for yourself.

            If you where thinking of the South Pole, there are several tour companies running trips. Also currently both McMurdo and Amundsen-Scott Research Stations are hiring. Again, cooks, dishwashers, computer techs, – lots of non-research jobs.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            oops I meant south pole & fixed it. A flat earth model would show walls of ice around the earth and the north pole being in the center.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            There’s a regular flight from Sydney to Johannesburg that flies over Antarctica, and the planes even have windows.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            You have flown into Antarctica ?

          • ComeOnPeople!

            No one has ever gone completely across Antarctica . There are those who could do so but no one has ever done so.

          • Bob Johnson

            Check out wikiTravel, six companies offer tours to the South Pole. Yes it is a bit pricey, but then isn’t all knowledge. And as I stated earlier the South Pole (Amundsen-Scott) is hiring, so you could see the area and possibly join the 300 Club.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            You are only allowed into certain areas even with those expensive tours. No PRIVATE individual has even been allowed past a certain point since the treaty was made. And if those who have joined a CLUB have been allowed to explore , then show us documents and photos of each explored terrain . This is what explorers do they document the whole of a land mass. Oh or give us REAL photos from all those 25,000 satellites up in the sky of the whole of Antarctica .

          • Bob Johnson

            Adventure Network International offers three ski to the South Pole trips of 56, 50, and 34 days. These trips leave from Messner, Hercules Inlet, and Axel Helberg and have trips available in November. You can take all the pictures you want and their website has plenty of pictures from previous customers.

            P.S. The 300 Club is for people who have stood at the South Pole when the temperature is 100 degrees below zero and then run back to the hot tub. This means you have to work there over winter.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Still not a full exploration of Antarctica sorry.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Missing the point. No one is allowed past certain points in Antarctic. Via the Antartica treaty it is bordered off for scientific research.

        • TwoRutRoad

          If you could see clouds behind it, that would put the moon in the Earths atmosphere.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            and that would kinda mess things up, I think.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            According to the bible and historical records for centuries … the earth has a firmament above it with the stars, sun and moon placed within that firmament. GOD never calls them planets but lights. I am not the only person who believes the earth is not a sphere nor are there planets but only stars, sun and moon. That was the belief by brilliant minds for centuries and the depictions on the walls of such as built the pyramids.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Oh wait….you’re a “flat-earther”? Really? That’s just…like I said in response to someone else, I don’t know if I should laugh or cry right now.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Oh wait you believe in a spinning marble even when your eyes never see a curve. Even when you land in an air plane on a long straight run way without crashing. Even after studying surveying tools and how roads, canals and structures are still using implements which use straight not curved methods. Oh wait you have driven down I-90 in the dakotas which allow you to see for miles and never see any curvature and yet you still believe the narrative. Oh wait you are one of those who when people question because they see the Chicago skyline from Michigan parrot the media and tell them they are all seeing a mirage . I think the laugh is on society and people who never study anything but get all their info from unholywood and the devil-vision. Yup I cry when I think of all the zombies who are clued to the screen and just nod when told what is reality like puppets on a string.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            If the earth is flat, how is there even a horizon? Shouldn’t you be able to see the whole thing, then?

          • TwoRutRoad

            And I wonder what’s on the bottom side? Must be a bunch of tree roots sticking out.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I’m picturing a giant floating island, like on those old album covers by Roger Dean…Yes albums and whatnot…

          • TwoRutRoad

            I wonder if we could get a government grant to fund an expedition?

          • Bob Johnson

            I believe this is part of a Discworld novel.

          • TwoRutRoad

            Hmmm… I’m a fan of Ringworld, but haven’t read Discworld. Do you recommend it?

          • Bob Johnson

            Highly. Terry Pratchett is the author. “Good Omens” is also by Pratchett but is not part of the Discworld series.

          • TwoRutRoad

            I ordered book 1. The reviews look good! I can’t wait! Thanks for the tip!

          • Bob Johnson

            Terry Pratchett’s Discworld novels were written over many years. They generally get better and more complex as the series builds. There is absolutely no reason to read them in order.

          • wulf

            Disc world should be compulsory reading

          • ComeOnPeople!

            “Although the Sun is at all times above and parallel to the Earth’s surface, he appears to ascend the firmament from morning until noon, and to descend and sink below the horizon at evening. This arises from a simple and everywhere visible law of perspective. A flock of birds, when passing over a flat or marshy country, always appears to descend as it recedes; and if the flock is extensive, the first bird appears lower, or nearer to the horizon than the last. The farthest light in a row of lamps appears the lowest, although each one has the same altitude. Bearing these phenomena in mind, it will easily be seen how the Sun, although always parallel to the surface of the Earth, must appear to ascend when approaching, and descend after leaving the meridian or noon-day position.” -Dr. Samuel Rowbotham

            “This law of Perspective meets us on every hand; and cannot be gainsaid.

            If, in a straight line, we look at a frozen lake from a certain distance, we shall observe people who appear to be skating on their knees, but, if we approach sufficiently near, we shall see them performing graceful motions on their feet. Farther, if we look through a straight tunnel, we shall notice that the roof and the roadway below converge to a point of light at the end.

            It is the same law which makes the hills sink, to the horizon, as the observer recedes, which explains how the ship’s hull disappears in the offing. I would also remark that when the sea is undisturbed by waves, the hull can be restored to sight by the aid of a good telescope long after it has disappeared from the naked eye, thus proving that the ship had not gone down behind the watery hill of a convex globe, but is still sailing on the level of a Plane sea.” -David Wardlaw Scott

            Let any one try the experiment of looking at a light-house, church spire, monument, gas lamp, or other elevated object, from a distance of only a few yards, and notice the angle at which it is observed. On going farther away, the angle under which it is seen will diminish, and the object will appear lower and lower as the distance of the observer increases, until, at a certain point, the line of sight to the object, and the apparently uprising surface of the earth upon or over which it stands, will converge to the angle which constitutes the ‘vanishing point’ or the horizon; beyond which it will be invisible.” -Dr. Samuel Rowbotham

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Yeah you are right. I should at least be able to see the church tower from the next town with a binocular, cause it’s only a ten minute drive so pretty close. If the earth was flat.

          • TwoRutRoad

            Oh, goody! Flat earth discussion! It’s almost as fun as biblical nonsense! When do we get to talk about Paul Bunyan making the lakes in Minnesota? I’ve seen his actual frying pan, so you can’t tell me he’s not real! Now that I think of it…maybe HE’S god!

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Those who study out nothing and live in imposed boxes , will only eat what is fed to them because their logic is limited and their box contains them. Only those who question everything and try to find answers to those questions find answers and only those outside of boxes enjoy the freedom to eat what they choose & spit out whatever offers them no nourishment . Non belief is easy because it takes minutes to come to the conclusion but belief in something takes a lifetime of study. True science offers a theory and then studies to prove that theory but even once proven the true scientists know there is always more to know on any given subject. So enjoy your imposed box but I shall enjoy the freedom to test everything.

          • TwoRutRoad

            It’s nice to know that you question everything. Have you questioned these:
            Virgin birth?
            Coming back to life?
            Talking snakes and donkeys?
            Turning water to wine?
            The sun stopping in the sky?
            A god who was so unhappy with his own creation that he drowned an entire planet, animals and all? Was there no better solution.
            Etc., etc., etc……

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Yes I have questioned those things and studied them out. And? Do you wish for me to sit on a computer and to answer all your doubts on different topics? Sorry but I don’t have the time. I actually do this blog stuff just for kicks but my life is not consumed with it. I have a huge library and love to study and use the internet to access information that I have no access to . As for media entertainment, this is pretty much the only yippee I ascribe to once in a while. I feel no need to explain every stance I give on here, nor do I have to. Use your time and efforts to do your own research.

          • TwoRutRoad

            Ok, then. Please tell me where to find an accurate map of the flat earth so I can research more effectively.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Just as there are maps based upon mans theory of a spinning ball earth, there are maps out there on mans theory of a flat fixed earth. Again it’s not my intent to prove anything. I have studied the topic and stated what I concluded from those studies. Go do your own studies and make your own conclusions. My believe in a flat earth does not hinder your belief in a spinning marble. Believe as you wish based upon study of the subjects of which you choose . If you remain convinced after study that the earth is a spinning marble then so be it, remain true to your conclusions . I have studied and changed my view from the spinning marble to a flat earth. I could care less if I am called a flat earther, a tin foil hat wearer or an idiot for going against the main stream. Persons with greater minds then myself who made conclusions that went against the common ideals of their time were most often ridiculed . My conclusions do not need approval of the masses to be true. Neither do my conclusions change because of the opinions of others. Unlike the masses I am a free person who refuses the box in order that I might explore and test everything. I seldom believe what I see, hear or read without question. WHY? Because I can. ahahaha

          • TwoRutRoad

            My goodness. I asked a simple question and got a lecture. All I wanted was a little help on where to find an ACCURATE map, since there a many out there from which to choose.

            By the way, your usage of the word “then” is incorrect, but I’m not going to tell you why. Do you own studying and figure it out for yourself. To use you own words, I have studied the topic and stated what I concluded from those studies. Go do your own studies and make your own conclusions. WHY, because you can. ahahaha

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Oh no I made an error … therefore everything I say must be silly because I’m human and don’t know everything . Please do help me know my errors so I will stop all this nonsense and get back in line and be able to hear the flute again. NAW… I like having no puppet strings, it’s quite liberating! I’d rather be like I am now then THEN . Than is old english derived from then.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            He/she also follows Bretibart, that says it all. And he/she believes the devil gave us all the information. I think he/she is friends with Grace.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Stop bullying people online.

          • TwoRutRoad

            Who’s the bully, here? Stop bashing us over the head with your book!

          • TheKingOfRhye

            You mentioned airplanes…look at some flight paths some time. Especially ones for flights of a long distance, because then it is really apparent….they always look like curved lines, on a flat map. Why do you suppose that would be?

          • ComeOnPeople!

            In an airplane there is an instruments called an artificial horizon which is based upon the gyroscope. If you spin a gyroscope on a flat surface even if it tilts it will stay upright. In an airplane this instrument based upon the gyroscope if the earth has a curve should tilt backwards yet it never does. The pilots will tell you that this is because it is based upon electronics which compensate for this yet the manufacturers who created the Artificial Horizon for planes tell you that it is a completely mechanical devise . Therefore the action of the Artificial Horizon Gyroscope device used in planes proves that they are flying not around a curved surface but a flat plane.

          • TwoRutRoad

            Look up “great circle route” and you’ll see why planes don’t fly in straight lines as one would expect if the earth was flat.

        • TheKingOfRhye

          What about this: Earth-moon-earth communication. It’s a thing that amateur radio operators do. If you have a highly directional antenna, and enough power, you can literally bounce a radio signal off the moon.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            And who told you it was bouncing off the moon?

          • TheKingOfRhye

            The Flying Spaghetti Monster told me. Or wait, maybe it was Satan, I forget….

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Or maybe it was people hmmm

        • TwoRutRoad

          You really need to explain how there are clouds behind the moon. Either there are clouds in space or the moon is under the clouds in our atmosphere. We’re all waiting for your explanation….

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Who is ALL waiting? I saw clouds because the moon is simply a light placed within the firmament of the sky above you.

      • Bob Johnson

        A difficult one as it depends on the definition of light. Google “bounce light photography”

    • TwoRutRoad

      The moon is not a light.

      • Ex Tempore

        …logic states that the moon reflects light, not a giving off light!…this religious b.s. must STOP when questioning the age of the Universe!…..what is God and did Jesus exist?

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        It shines. It is a light. No one needs Earth’s light on the moon.

        • TwoRutRoad

          How is the light created? What’s the power source, and how does it manage to shine in phases such as a half moon or fingernail moon?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            How did a matter come into being? God did both. He has no beginning or end and He does what He wills. The light has not explained away by mankind yet. It is still mysterious. Jesus is the Light of the world. He said, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.”( John ch.8)

          • TwoRutRoad

            More babble. Never a real answer that can be discussed or argued. “Go did it! God did it!”

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            This is the core of the whole matter. Nothingness produces nothing. Productive nothingness is never been observed. Its probability is zero. God created the heavens and the earth – everything in the universe and beyond. Planet Earth contains the accurate records of it, the Holy Bible, just like the signature of an artist on a artwork and also the Maker’s Manual for users. And the evidences are unmistakable. The probability is 100%. Atheists just want filthy autonomy against the Creator God, continuing their evil. Read Colossians chapter 1 to find how everything came into being. The universe has a purpose of creation from the Creator God.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Do you have proof? Oh wait, you believe a book, so no real proof.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Read it. Stop bullying the colored people. No more slavery.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            So, no proof? Got it!

          • TwoRutRoad

            You are the slave. A slave to your god.

          • TwoRutRoad

            Why, then, did the author if this Makers Manual not give us anything useful, like “Honor your children” or “Wash thine hands to prevent sickness” or “cover your water supply to prevent mosquitoes, which carry malaria” or “Owning another person as a slave is against God’s law”?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            #1 – Ephesians ch.6 and Colossians ch. 3 have far wiser advice. “Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it.” (Proverbs ch.22) Just honoring them spoils them. #2 and #3 – Leviticus is full of commands regarding good sanitation. This is far more vital: “The blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.” (1 John ch.1)

            #4 – God knew Mankind cannot get rid of physical slavery until Jesus returns. The situation is unprecedentedly worse; Earth’s 99% is a slave to the 1% today, though the American Christians tried to free slaves in the 19th century. Mankind always comes back to slavery. Each individual must determine how to live right in both positions. The Book of James has plenty warnings against the 1%. Sin is slavery. Everyone has to read the Holy Bible. Jesus said, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” ( John ch. 8)

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            *rolls eyes**facepalm*

          • Jenny Ondioline

            No one’s talking about repentance right now Grace. We are talking about the moon. Which is real.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            God made the moon. You need repentance more than anything else in this world.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            I don’t. I’m doing just fine.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Oh,she says that to everyone.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Jolanda, stop bullying me. Read the Holy Bible if you have time to bully me.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            What is it you said? It’s telling truth, not bullying? Your words not mine. Again, can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

          • TwoRutRoad

            You are the bully here, Grace. You’re beating us over the head with your stupid book.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are only imagining. You are not doing fine at all. Stop promoting infanticide and immorality in the land. Reality is that you are a sinner who need God’s forgiveness and salvation. “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” (Romans ch.3, ch.6, Acts ch.16)

        • Jenny Ondioline

          Grace, there have been multiple moon landings. It’s not a light. It’s a place.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            The moon is a light that shines upon the Earth at night. It’s not up above there for mankind’s stepping upon all the time. You don’t land upon your lamp every single day. You use it to lit the room. Every creation has a purpose and a role.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            The moon itself doesn’t give light, it only reflects the light of the sun. If there hadn’t been any man on the moon, whe wouldn’t have known what we know right now, that there is life possible on the moon.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Do you have multiple accounts in this news site? Reflection or not, light is light. Man would not have called it the moon if it didn’t give light upon the earth. There is no life other than on Planet Earth.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Nope, too many work, loging and loging out all the time. Uhm, learned that at school. Oh wait Christian school probably didn’t teach that, right? They found water on the moon, hence life is possible on the moon.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            No, God did not create the moon for life. He created the earth for life to shrive. Water alone has no life apart from God’s creation in it.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Did I say that the water on the moon had life? Nope, no where did I claim that. I said there is water on the moon, so life is possible on the moon. But I knew you wouldn’t understand that, I’ll guess you never learned that in your Christian school.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            I went to public schools as well. People were not that hostile against Christianity at that time. Immorality made people hate Christianity. Life is not possible on the moon; if atheists found any, those are shrimps and water-bears they brought from the Earth, not originated from the moons.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Again, did I say there was life in the water? I said they found water on the moon so life is possible, no where did I stated that there was life? Nope, none, nada. Read the comment more carefully. That is what you’re saying all the time, right? So why don’t you do what you preach?

          • TwoRutRoad

            Times have changed. It used to be that if you expressed doubt, your family would disown you and you were beaten up. There was nowhere to turn for help. Now, we have great numbers and resources. People who are non-believers can find companions of the same thought. It’s time we fight back against the tyranny of the majority. Forget Jesus…the atheists are coming!

          • TwoRutRoad

            Jolanda doesn’t need multiple accounts. It just so happens that a LOT of people think you need to stop looking at the world through “God Glasses”.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            God is the Creator. You Western atheists are too simple. Read Psalms ch.14 and Romans ch.8 to know what you are.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            This is a discussion site, every person has a different opinion. Don’t like people not having the same opinion you do, too bad.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            But you guys come against a person as a group. Stop that.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Can’t take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Simple.

          • TwoRutRoad

            This is Christian News Network and you are outnumbered by atheists!

            Mmmmmmwwwwahahahahahaha! Give it up, Grace! Surrender now! The truth shall set you FREEEE!

          • Bob Johnson

            Not a very good night light as often it is shining while the sun is up and then it sets early in the evening. Also the moon is always waxing and waning, providing maximum light only a couple of days per month. If the moon’s purpose is a light source it is not a very good design.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are wrong. If the moon is always round and bright, the mankind would never be able to see the starry skies. When the moon is dim or absent, the stars lit the skies. Astounding beautiful. If you only lived in a city, you won’t understand what I say. The world is not a city, and electricity hasn’t been around for a long time. City-dwellers lost one of the most stunning thing in the world. Bob, read the Holy Bible again. Everything has a purpose.

          • Bob Johnson

            “City-dwellers lost one of the most stunning things in the world every night.”

            We agree on at least one thing. Oh and by the way, I own an 8-inch telescope.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Nope. It got to be the free sky view. It’s nice slave owners are rich.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            It’s nice slave owners are rich.

            Then I’m not a slave owner, cause I’m not rich.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are. You are living in a rich nation. Rich nations get things cheap by making poor nations’ residents work for nothing. Our injust planet. Honest people admit that self is a sinner and work for the liberation of mankind.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            ROFLMAO!!! A rich nation? You should really follow the main stream news and not believing everything you read on the internet. Damn, making poor nations residents work for nothing? Where can I find those, need someone to clean my house. Well let me say you this, this “rich nation” doesn’t give me a hand out. I’m working for a living, the only rich people here are the politicians who rob honest working people from their money.

          • Bob Johnson

            Of course if the Creator had put the moon in a geostationary orbit, we could have light all night long and still watch the stars. Also we would have stable oceans and a lot less storms. And remember He set this up in the first six days when He still thought he was building Eden.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You do not know what God said or thought. You haven’t read Genesis chapter 1 yet. God made the world with the perfect order.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            A simple science course focusing on the earth, moon and stars would serve you well.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Mankind only know the present stage accurately, not the past. The models are full of defects. Read Genesis ch.1, John ch.1, and Colossians ch.1. Atheists lack humility before the Creator God who made the sun, the moon, the stars, and Planet Earth.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            The bible says different and brilliant scientist believe different for decades.

      • ComeOnPeople!

        According to my eyes which looked straight through it last night and also saw the sun still in the sky at the same time…. yes both lights. The lesser to rule the night sky and the greater to rule the day. If you can see through it , it is not a solid.

        • GoldenSnow

          So were the moon landings faked?

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I’ll have to find it again one of these days, but there was a YouTube video I watched a few years ago, from some guy who was a long-time video editing expert. Basically the gist of it was, we simply didn’t have the video technology to fake a moon landing in 1969. Just think about this way, that was before we even had VHS or Beta…..lol

          • ComeOnPeople!

            I believe most of news and tv is just that… fiction. It’s scripted . Just because they show me a marble earth and a grey marble moon with pot holes, does not mean it’s real. I can create any reality you like via photo shop and video. Look up who had a hand in nasa.(Disney)
            Look at the pictures of the marble earth and the so called planets on nasa’s web page. You will see there are no real photos. All are painted images and if you ask them they will tell you they are paintings. Do your own research . Just because fantasy land devil vision tells the world something does not make it so. There are many who think they were faked and many who have taken the videos and debunked them. There are so many programs available today that can see straight through photo shopped images and green rooms. People can actually search things out for themselves now. Why? Because the web makes it possible for loads of information from all types of sources available . That aside … if I believe the earth is a sphere , which by the way was never believed by top scientist before nasa, not to mention never believed by the ancients who built the amazing pyramids … then I must discount the scriptures of how the Creator made the earth, moon, sun and stars. The bible account fits the scientists and ancients of the past. So I choose to listen to history, scripture and my own eyes.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            *facepalm**shakes head* Seriously. Are you one of those conspiracy theory people?

            And with top scientist you mean Samuel Rowbotham and other Christian scientists?

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Flat Earth Realm | The Cover Up video … nice

        • TwoRutRoad

          These are solid, but I can see through them:
          Ice, glass, plastic, diamond, rubies, quarts, silica.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Um the fake moon landing showed moon dust, mass not a crystal ball or a clear object. You cannot see through sand or dirt.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            ROFLMAO!!! Sorry, couldn’t help myself.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            oh oh oh hahahaha oh oh … I couldn’t help myself either. Flat Earth Realm | The Cover Up video ahahaha to funny

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            This is your proof? A video from a guy who believes in conspiracy theories like you do? Wow, yeah I believe this. NOT!

          • ComeOnPeople!

            This video has the main players telling you for themselves the truth about the moon landing. Kind of hard to fake real top officials admitting it was fake.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            None of them had the words fake and moonlanding in the same sentences. And the commenter saying what the officials supossedly would have said is not proof. And a edited video with scenes of movies? Serioudly? You call that proof?

          • ComeOnPeople!

            For a very long time people have said they can see the Chicago skyline and when a picture came out to prove it the weather station there broadcasted that it was a mirage. Funny how every time people use their eyes those who want us all to believe the big lie tell us we are blind… watch Rob Skiba proves the Chicago skyline (as seen from the other side) is NOT a mirage

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I’ve read about that before…..people ARE seeing Chicago from the other side of Lake Michigan AND it is a mirage. It doesn’t prove the earth is flat, no, not at all.

            I just found this on “ABC 57″‘s site, a South Bend, IN TV station’s website:

            BERRIEN COUNTY, Mich. –

            A picture of the Chicago skyline taken almost 60 miles away, is actually a mirage. Joshua Nowicki (@StartVisiting) snapped the pic Tuesday night from Grand Mere State Park in Stevensville. Under normal conditions, even when extremely clear, this should not be visible, due to the curvature of the earth. The Chicago skyline is physically below the horizon form that vantage point, but the image of the skyline can be seen above it.

            This is a form of Superior Mirage, superior in this meaning the mirage or image of the skyline is seen above where it’s actually located. The clear skies, and cool weather (aided even more by the cool lake water) creates an inversion. A layer of air near the surface that’s cooler than air higher in the atmosphere.This creates a bending or ducting effect where the light (image) instead of going in a normal straight line into space, curves back towards the surface of the earth.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            There have been people who after this was said about Joshuas photo, took it upon themselves to see if this was in fact a mirage. They got in a boat and started filming from 40 miles away. They saw what Joshua saw on a different day months later. To prove they were not in fact seeing a mirage they continued to approach Chicago in their boat the skyline remained in view at every distance and as they got closer and closer it just go more and more visible. A mirage is a naturally occurring optical phenomenon in which light rays are bent to produce a displaced image of distant objects or the sky. If you can see it and it remains in the same place and looks the same as the real deal at all different distances than it is not a mirage but your eyes see what is there.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            This is media telling you that what you see is not what you see. Many private individuals have seen the skyline on different days and not only there but all over the world seen what would be impossible on a spinning curved earth. People from all over are using their eyes and minds and concluding that we have always been and will continue to be on a flat plane… including scientists , pilots, surveyors, teachers and your every day average Joe. Oh and after the news said this was a mirage , people traveled across the lake to prove it was not. A mirage does not remain the same as you draw closer and become more visible as you do so.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            So, if the earth is flat, then why do we have time zones? Since cause the earth is flat, no reason for the earth to revolve around the sun, no time zones, right? Cause the sun would shine for everyone at the same time. Why is it that when we have summer, Australia has winter? Shouldn’t we all have the same season?

          • ComeOnPeople!

            No because the sun rotates around the circle of the earth in different positions causing the same effect. A film of the most powerful private rocket with cameras on board was set off in Nevada . On that film few noticed the moon but some did notice it in the morning sky. They put the time and the place into the data base to see where the moon was at that time. It was in that position according to round earth theory in Australia and would thus be impossible but on a flat earth model it would have been possible.

        • TheKingOfRhye

          You said you saw the clouds through the moon…how do you know you weren’t just seeing the moon through the clouds? Also, if the moon’s not solid, then explain a solar eclipse. It seems solid enough to block the sun’s light, all of it in the case of a total eclipse.

          • TwoRutRoad

            If she can see the clouds through the moon, that means the moon is in our atmosphere.

          • hamfish

            If the moon is in the atmosphere, it would probably be good news for anyone….

    • disqus_SUijHfDO8w

      The light and darkness were already here in genesis 1:3.

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        It is light as the day and darkness as the night. God made the systems and relations in our universe. (Jeremiah ch.33)

      • ComeOnPeople!

        Yes it was and then on the 4th day HE created lights in the sky. The creator light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night. The sun, moon and the stars placed in the sky were given also so that man could calculate times and seasons.

        • GoldenSnow

          So everything revolves around the earth?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Yes, Israel is the center of the universe, not USA. Stay useful to her.

          • GoldenSnow

            I’m just trying to get things straight, you are saying that the sun and all the planets orbit the earth and not that the earth is part of the solar system that everything orbits the sun? Also that Israel is the dead center of everything? I’m curious.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            The Word of God says God cares for Israel very much. The sun travels around the MIlky Way. It surely is running.

          • GoldenSnow

            Sorry, I must have misread. I thought you were saying that Israel was physically the center of the universe and that everything moved

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Please don’t apologize. Read Isaiah chapter 40. Universe is huge, but indeed the size does not matter to the Creator God.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            The bible says the earth is set in place and the moon, stars and sun are lights set in the firmament . I have seen a demonstration of a dome with a magnetic field and when a objects were placed above it, the objects circled around the edge of the dome. Study history, the ancients and hieroglyphics , scriptures , the book of enoch and what top scientists believed before nasa.

    • wulf

      Why then, dos the moon fade away every 28 days?

      • ComeOnPeople!

        Go look at flat earth maps and the understanding of that day . I cannot explain it all but I have seen enough documents, historical data, and present day individual observations that I have changed my view. Science for a flat earth were left behind when only the scientists who were toting a spinning ball were funded. Scientists need money to continue their studies. The Roman Catholic church who was the state church in England pushed for the globe model to be in every school long before any proof was given of this new found theory. Hitler said if you tell a lie loud enough and long enough people with believe it. The study of Phychology tells us that mankind has a tendency to believe any reality which is presented to him from birth whether it be true or not. He then remains in that presented reality as long as those who told him it is the only reality keep him from discovering any other. But should he ever venture outside that reality he will be called all manner of evil and shamed by all those who remain in the reality presented to them at a young age. Before the globe model many who were scientists explained why it was a faulty theory and not provable. Only after it was placed in every school and toted as fact did the view shift and Disney funded Nasa helped the view even further. Just as spinning marble believers have doubts of a flat earth based on science so to do flat earth believers have doubts of a spinning marble based on science.

        • Bob Johnson

          1492 oldest surviving globe (Erdapfel)
          1558 Church of England broke from the Roman Catholic Church
          1633 Galileo under house arrest for idea of spinning marble

          1870 state funded schools in England began

          1920’s first Walt Disney animation
          1958 NASA formed by act of Congress

        • TwoRutRoad

          The “authentic recreation” of Noah’s ark, at The Ark Encounter, has a round globe in Noah’s “library”.

          • ComeOnPeople!

            Well good for them , they follow the spinning ball theory .

  • http://www.gmail.com/ David van Heerden

    “invalidate” – that’s a strong word for an unassailable theory.

    • wulf

      They are discriminatin against my religion. The Asatru version of creation should alsobe taught in schools. We all know hat the Gods killed the Frost Giant Ymir an forme his corpse into the world

      • http://www.gmail.com/ David van Heerden

        Sure. Write a book, and sell it as the great answer to children’s education. Everyone will love it. Be sure to get a gud spel checkar.

  • TwoRutRoad

    What a dishonest, misleading, spinning out of control article! “Nature” was not claiming that the moon itself is young…only that the surface changes faster than originally thought. Cratering has nothing to do with the age of the moon.

    The writer here did not mention that they “observe a secondary cratering process that we estimate churns the top two centimetres of regolith on a timescale of 81,000 years…”

    How does that fit in with your young earth creationist “theory”?

    • Tangent002

      Funny how the Young-Earthers cling to the smallest bit of actual science as gospel, yet ignore vast amounts of science otherwise.

  • cadcoke5

    There is an inherent flaw in some of the logic. It makes the assumption that the rate of cratering is constant. It my have varied wildly in the past. But it does highlight an issue with any science regarding the past.

    While having accurate data is important, the most important thing is to have an accurate imagination. You have to imagine a story that ends with the data we have now. But, the inherent inaccuracy of the imagination is certainly going to be a challenge. We might assume conditions in the past, but the longer into the past we go, the more speculative it becomes.

    Of course, if you have a reliable witness to past events, that certainly trumps anyone theory. Anything else is speculation to one degree or another.

    God’s written word to us, has proven itself to be reliable. So, that trumps speculation. But, we don’t have every detail of creation. So, you have to be careful not to be over confident in speculation.

    • TwoRutRoad

      Geology is a much better witness to the past. It will never be influenced by what others tell it, and it will never intentionally deceive you. More importantly, it won’t tell you what it “believes”.

      • cadcoke5

        The idea of an earth that was millions of years old really became popular when Charles Lyell theorized that a gully is formed gradually as a river slowly erodes it. But, it assumed that erosion is mostly constant, and that layers must form in sequence. His theories became firmly established in secular geology. But, now even the secularists are starting to see that, at least some, of the geology we see was formed in a catastrophic way. I.e. the grand canyon being formed fairly quickly, in relatively soft sediment. For a great source on this from a Christian, see the works by Dr. Steve Austin, whose work at Mount Saint Hellen really helped document how features, which secularist’s have long asserted took millions of years, can form in minutes.

        Other areas of science have this problem. You have to imagine a theory that causes the world to behave in the way that your evidence shows it to be.

        Another great example, in which the evolutionary mindset set research back over a decade, is so-called “junk DNA”. The expectation of the secularist is that evolution would produce a very large percentage of random DNA. And when they didn’t see function in 90% of the DNA, the assumption was that this was a #1 proof of evolution. But, the idea that they might simply just not understand this DNA’s function was ruled out. This question was poised to Eugene Scott (a leading evolutionist) in 1998 by conservative talk show host Bob Enyart, and she simply rejected it. Now, in Nature 2012, pg 57-74, you can read that the head of the ENCODE project is acknowledging that he is expecting to find function in nearly 100% of the DNA has function.

        Any area of science
        where you can’t put your hands on the objects you want to test, is much
        harder to really test your ideas, and the greater the chances of an “error in your imagination”.

        A great historical example, is the solar-centric theory proposed by Copernicus. His theory was LESS accurate at predicting the orbits than Ptolemy’s system of crystal spheres. This was because he assumed the orbits were perfect circles. It was not until Kepler’s elliptical paths, and Newton’s universal gravity theories (both creationists, by the way), that the idea really gained traction and had evidence to support it.

        It is the over-confidence in their theories of the past, that really drove me to re-evaluate the evolutionist’s claims and lead me to learn about young-earth creationism.

        • disqus_SUijHfDO8w

          The Grand Canyon was not formed quickly, nor did it form in soft sediment, sorry, but that doesn’t work. Also I talked to biologists back in the 90’s who were evolutionists who clearly stated that junk DNA was something we didn’t understand yet. While some evolutionists died it was just junk, other evolutionary biologists disagreed vehemently, and there were predictions made by evolutionists that this junk DNA was not actually junk, but just misunderstood.

          • Kevin Quillen

            if the Grand Canyon was formed by a little water over a lot of time, then why are there not grand canyons everywhere? There is no Mississippi canyon, Missouri canyon, Nile canyon. Why not?

          • TwoRutRoad

            There are many canyons around the world. Just in the USA we have:

            Bad Rock Canyon, Montana, United States
            Big South Fork of the Cumberland River gorge, Kentucky and Tennessee
            Black Canyon of the Gunnison, Colorado, United States
            Breaks Canyon. Kentucky/Virginia, United States
            Canyon de Chelly, Arizona, United States
            Columbia River Gorge, Washington and Oregon, United States
            Flume Gorge, New Hampshire, United States
            Grand Canyon, Arizona, United States
            Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone, Wyoming, United States
            Hells Canyon, Idaho and Oregon, United States
            James River Gorge, Virginia, United States
            Kings Canyon National Park, California, United States
            Lehigh River Gorge, The Poconos, Northeastern Pennsylvania
            Letchworth State Park (Genesee River Gorge), New York, United States
            Linville Gorge Wilderness, North Carolina, United States
            Little River Canyon, Alabama, United States
            Logan Canyon, Utah, United States
            New River Gorge, West Virginia, United States
            Niagara Gorge, Canada/United States
            Nine Mile Canyon, Utah, United States
            Palo Duro Canyon, Texas, United States
            Pine Creek Gorge, Pennsylvania, United States
            Quechee Gorge, Vermont, United States
            Red River Gorge, Kentucky, United States
            Rio Grande Gorge, New Mexico, United States
            Ripogenus Gorge, Maine, United States
            Royal Gorge, Colorado, United States
            Tallulah Gorge, Georgia, United States
            Waimea Canyon, Hawaii, United States

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I feel left out. My state, Michigan, is totally canyonless. Oh well.

          • Bob Johnson

            Maybe it is time for a road trip, google “The Grand Canyon of Michigan”

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Well, okay, I should do that at some time then! I kinda don’t think about the UP at times, it’s almost like I consider it part of another state or something. I’m about as far from the UP as I can be, I’m in the southeasternmost part of MI, pretty much.

          • wulf

            Deprived child

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I’m not feeling too deprived now. My state’s college football team is really, and I mean really, looking good. So all is well…..and go Blue!

          • Tangent002

            No Mississippi river canyon? I beg to differ.

            Take a look at an elevation map of the U.S. and you will see a VAST canyon in the Central-Southern region. The ‘boot’ of Louisiana is formed mainly from sediments deposited by the Mississippi over millions of years.

          • TwoRutRoad

            I’ll bet a weeks pay he won’t check it out. When I looked up “Canyon of the world” I was amazed at what I found and learned. I had no idea there were so many just in the U.S. alone! To bad their only source of information is an old book.

          • disqus_SUijHfDO8w

            Colca Canyon in Peru, Copper Canyon Mexico, Echidna Canyon Australia, Fish River Canyon Namibia, Verdon Gorge France, Yarlung Tsangpo Tibet/China and many more as seen below. Not all rivers are the same age as some are much younger.

          • disqus_SUijHfDO8w

            Also as concerning the soft dinosaur tissue. Dinosaurs had a lot of iron in their blood. When this mixes with hemoglobin’s it can make a substance that acts like preservatives. While the tissue is soft, it is also mineralized and thus is not evidence for a young earth.

          • Ann Kah

            How much water, and which direction was it flowing? Most of the southern part of Mississippi River runs on flat land. Flat land means not such a strong downward slope, so the water can’t pick up so much speed. The result is a more gentle flow, meandering in loops, moving lots of fine mud but not throwing big boulders around. Rivers running down steep mountains are the opposite: they tend to fall straighter and faster and with more force. Look up the geologic term “mass wasting”.

          • cadcoke5

            While the fact that genetic researchers did eventually come around to acknolwedging purpose for this part of the DNA is a testimony to those who objected to the “junk” label the evolutionary mindset did set things back. Otherwise the name “junk” would not have been the name normally used for it.

        • TwoRutRoad

          Steve Austin works at the Institute for Creation Research.
          18 Creationist articles. 3 secular articles.
          If you spend a few minutes researching him, you soon see that he clearly tries to fit things into the bible, so he starts there, and works backwards, making the pieces fit. (Or so he thinks.) If ANY of his research showed that scientists were wrong, and the flood of Noah really happened, or that the earth was, indeed, very young, we would live in a different world. Why has this not happened? Cadcoke5, what have you learned about young-earth creationism that makes more sense than a natural, old-earth, and did you really examine the evidence on both sides?

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Steve Austin? At the Institute For Creation Research? What, does he want to “open up a can of whoop ass” on people who don’t believe in creationism? “Stomp a mudhole” in secularism?

            Sorry, couldn’t resist…

          • hamfish

            Does he still have his bionic legs and arm?

          • cadcoke5

            I grew up in secular school, and like most, accepted the naturalistic dogma. For many who went to church, the bible was simply regulated to being analogy, if it was God’s word at all. But, at some point I started to realize that science kept changing its answers, and I started to realize that scientific “fact” was often wrong. Then when I started to learn more from the creationist’s perceptive, the evolutionary/naturalistic version of science started to crumble very quickly.

            I do consider myself educated on both sides. Until last week’s broadcast, I had been a faithful listener to the atheistic Science Friday broadcast with Ira Flatow for many years. Well, until this past Friday, when I discontinued it after the broadcast where he was defending the use of aborted kids for experiments like transplanting their hearts into mice. (I am actually OK with using tissue from children who died, but the act of getting cozy with their executioner and even paying them, makes it morally bankrupt). I also read the web page Science Daily.

            It is more typically the educational institutions that adhere to an atheistic world view, who are against any evidence favoring a competing theory being taught.

            I think the most compelling thing for me was the rather extreme complexity of even very simple life forms, and the extreme odds against getting the correct molecules together to form life. Each kind of creature has a great deal of design, and that takes a designer.

            But, these kinds of discussions really need to go into detail with a specific subject. E.g. radiometric dating of rocks/fossils.

            You state that the world wold be very different if Noah’s flood were true, or the earth were very young. Yet, we have a lot of creatures buried in sediment from flood waters, to permit them to be fossilized. We also have evidence from things like Carbon 14 in diamonds and coal that that the radiometric dating methods just don’t work out to give us the answers we, or the secularists want. This type of dating has often proven itself inconsistent.

            I realize there might be evidence that supports either side of the argument. However, I also am more skeptical of the secular sources, because of things like the mitochondrial “Eve” or Y-Chromosome “Adam”. The secularists give ages more like 100,000 years ago, but don’t use the actually measured mutation rates of people. Rather, they assume we all evolved from monkeys, and figure the mutation rate based on that. Yet, if you use the actual mutation rate of man, you end up with dates that correspond VERY closely to the biblical account. This sort of insertion of the evolutionary mindset into the data, and the discarding of actual data seems to be common.

            What is, by many, considered to be the best evidence for evolution of animals, is the whale. They take a very incomplete fossil of Pakicetus , add an imaginary blow-hole and fluke that are not in the fossil. Then, they have egg on their face when they find a much more complete fossil that shows this was 100% a land animal with hooves and no blow-hole. Their imagination proved to be inaccurate again. though, Dr Gingerich (the discoverer of the original Pakicetus) says that the ear bone clearly shows this creature to be in the ancestry of the whale. I suppose you really can fool some people most of the time.

            The best evidence of evolution used to be horse evolution. But, then that got dropped by evolutionists. Now the whale version is in serious doubt. The”junk” DNA, was considered, by many, to be the best evidence. It is like the approx 100 vestigial organs that evolutionists touted as evidence a century ago. They simply inserted the evolutionary world view into the evidence, and ignored the possibility that their imagination was inaccurate.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “they assume we all evolved from monkeys”

            No. They don’t assume that. That just displays a misunderstanding of evolution on your part. We didn’t “evolve from monkeys”, we had a common ancestor. We’re all primates, after all. Actually, we’re just the smartest, least hairy breed of apes. 😛

          • hamfish

            You’ve not seen my back. I’m like an orang-utan

          • Ann Kah

            That’s what science IS, continually learning new things and changing the textbooks accordingly. That’s why we don’t repeat the work of Lyell or Darwin every year. We build upon every new thing that is discovered, making a structure that is far stronger and more sound than before. That’s why you didn’t have to invent the wheel all by yourself.

        • Ann Kah

          Lyell? LYELL? The man’s been dead for a century and a half. Geology has changed so completely during that time that the earliest findings are of historical interest only.

          “Now, even the secularists are starting to see…” etc…… Catastrophism is almost as old a theory. Sorry, but unless you can at least make it to the twentieth century in a science, it’s probably best not to try to explain it to anyone.

    • disqus_SUijHfDO8w

      The Bible does not say God “CREATED,” Bara” the two great lights on the fourth day it says he “MADE” asah” which means to make something out of preexisting material. The words are not interchangeable. Also, many of the early church fathers believed the days to be longer than twenty-four hours and many ancient Hebrews held to a type of gap/framework theory. So the old earth theory is not just a couple hundred years old. In fact, flood geology is only fifty years old and is thus the youngest or one of the youngest doctrines within the Christian faith.

    • wulf

      Of course, I forgot. the Bible is the only truth, You can believe that because the Bible says so and tha Bible is the only truth

      • Ann Kah

        “Beating a dead horse” here, I’m afraid.

  • Tangent002

    “Evidence of a Young Moon?”

    No, just evidence that more objects strike the moon surface than originally thought.

    • Grace Kim Kwon

      The measuring method has been wrong all along. That’s the point.

      • TwoRutRoad

        Science corrects itself whenever it can, and learns something. You, on the other hand, do not. You stick you fingers in your ears and NEVER provide any useful information or reasonable discussion. What do you think about the math I corrected? Am I right? It’s simple math and a simple question. I dare you to answer it directly.

        • Grace Kim Kwon

          You are wrong. Science changed its theories for hundreds of times, but the Holy Bible never changed anything because it is the truth. (Isaiah ch.40) Your math is meaningless because with that close range the Earth and moon could collide and today’s present model of reality does not appear anyway. The world consists not just of math but of also God’s physical laws and God’s special providence. You have to take everything into account to form a perfect believable model. You atheists need humility before your Creator God. You will produce futile sci-fictions against probability always until Jesus comes. Repent of your sinful unbelief before it’s too late. Your soul is much more precious than your math. ( John ch.3)

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “Science changed its theories for hundreds of times, but the Holy Bible never changed anything….”

            Yeah, and that’s the GOOD thing about science.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Today’s USA is AGAINST science in putting men in women’s washrooms. You guys must be some invading aliens to ruin the Earthlings; we don’t have the Earth Federal Defense System yet but the Holy Bible is enough to protect mankind against unscientific Western atheists. The West sought the truth only when it was Christisn. Secular West only believes in depraved immorality and mocks mankind by imposing mental illness upon the Earth. So self-destructive. Scientism = Anti-science

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            This is not the topic. The topic is about the moon, not bathrooms.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are wrong. We are talking about science in the fundamental level.

          • Bob Johnson

            How is science involved in the social customs of restroom usage. (My wife is keeping a list of the countries where she has seen men along roads , beside trees ,… you get the idea).

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            USA is not an illiterate poor oppressed nation and can afford decent restrooms throughout the land. Secular Western culture is against science by placing men in women’s restrooms just because the people are being bored. Poor nations’ poverty may look fun to you, but it is disgusting when rich men use women’s restroom where there are men’s restroom just next to it. You guys lost civility when you lost Christianity.

          • wulf

            You musrt be as bored as I am to kepo spouting this shit. And I’m reading it and worse answering you . I must be bored out of my skull

          • Ann Kah

            What “rich men” use a ladies room? Lady, you are crazier than I thought.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Secular Westerners and their mental slaves. They are seeking new warped amusement on the expense of women and children’s safety. Rich people usually seek sick entertainment because they are being bored. On a planet of billions of suffering humans at that.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            No, Grace, we’re all Earthlings, not aliens. A crazy idea, maybe, but let’s try to co-exist on this planet, huh?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            No, you guys are aliens who came to destroy the USA because the USA is the best nation on Planet Earth. If you want to co-exist, stop imposing your homosexuality upon mankind. The Earthlings suffered enough from the rich Western pervs. The Westerners retain normality only when they adhere Christianity. Don’t take Christianity away from the Westerners. They need it for life and sanity. Do something else or go somewhere else; the moon has a nice view. Repent your sins and read the Holy Bible to find salvation.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I don’t know whether I should laugh or cry after reading that right now.

          • Bob Johnson

            cry

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Why? A man should cry only when he is really sad.

          • Bob Johnson

            Because you can not accept people for who they are. You degrade anyone who disagrees with you – we are “aliens” and “slave owners” and “western pervs” and “mentally ill”. In your view only a small subset of those who believe in Jesus are Christians and everybody else is evil.

            Moments ago you denied that we can both enjoy the night sky without city lights, claiming I’m a rich slave owner because I have a 30 year old telescope. You are constantly making negative baseless assumptions.

            That is why I cry.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            “Aliens” – because you guys are so different from the Americans of even 30 years ago. “Slave owners” – because you try to mandate immorality. “Western pervs” – The West is the main section on earth to legalize destructive sexual custom – then everone has to so follow them. “Mentally ill” – because men are placed in women’s restrooms.

            The Holy Bible declares that every human is sinful and evil. You need to repent of your sins and trust in Jesus to be forgiven and get saved. I’m sorry for your telescope; I thought it was made in China. I’m surrounded by 30-year-old books except for the science field. You must man up and rescue women and children in the restrooms instead of being hurt. Most of Earthlings grow up in a far more harsh environment.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            *facepalm**sighs* I’m speechless. Really, you don’t get it, do you?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            What? You need Saviour Jesus for salvation, Jolanda. He is the only Way for salvation.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Yes, you really don’t get it.

          • TwoRutRoad

            We need salvation from the wrath of god. In other words, “Love me, or you’ll burn in hell.” This sounds like something an abusive spouse would say.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are wrong. Wrath of God is the justice. The Earthlings must admit self’s sinfulness first. Admitting one’s own sin is the first step. That’s honesty and the beginning for hope for something right. Nazi Germany singled out the Jews. USA singles out the unborn children and the Christians. God’s wrath will be a liberation for USA since the truth prevails. No inheritance for blasphemers and baby-killers and Sodomy-pushers and parent-slanderers. Read the Book of Isaiah and Revelation.

          • wulf

            I don;t think I;m sinful. If you mean I broke some of the “TenCommandments” then consider, your God gave those commandments to you not to me. He is your God not mine,So you keepthose commandments and piss off out my life I honour theOld Gods who do not tell me that seiving a pretty girl is a sin. So you goright ahead and keepthem , but keepthem for yourself don’t push them on me. Thank you

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            No, God’s judgment is for everyone. “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” (Romans 3:23) You must repent of your evil to get saved. Read Revelation chapter 20. Judgment includes you.

          • TwoRutRoad

            “Wrath of God…” Sounds monstrous.

            Why does God allow things to piss him off? All he’d have to do is give me a little flick with his finger and say, “Cut it out!”

            He made lousy rules, and doesn’t know how to play nice.

          • wulf

            Excuse me , Salvation fromwhat or who?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            From Sodomic West’s reign to the Christ’s kingdom. The West is just immoral if they have no Christianity. The West needs Christianity for life and morality.

          • wulf

            II think you are sick

          • wulf

            Your definition of morality?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Opposing the American Sodom’s slavery in the 21st century. No submission to the childless Western pervs. American fathers taught mankind not to submit to villains but to submit to God alone for freedom.

          • hamfish

            Or when he reads one of your comments.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You need to seek God’s truth for your salvation instead of bullying people. Read John ch.3.

          • wulf

            What has “Johnch 3″got to do with me?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            It is the Gospel of John chapter 3. It tells you how to get saved.

          • Ann Kah

            Why? I don’t care about how to be saved, I want to know why? I’m not expecting heaven and have no fear of hell. Apart from that stick and that carrot, what has christianity to offer a person who is perfectly happy without it?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Your happiness is a sin because it is built upon dead children.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Secular Americans lack the truth and patriotism of any kind. That’s the reality. Sad.

          • wulf

            Christianity destroyed Honour

          • wulf

            “Secular Americans lack the truth and patriotsm of any kind” and you clim that USAis the best nation on planet earth? Sir/Madam you are sick

          • wulf

            If the USA is the best nation on planrt earth we’de better hope here is a God. Because nothing else can help planet earth.

          • hamfish

            I can assure you the best nation on planet Earth is actually Scotland.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            No, most of the Western nations are into perversion and are childless. Every nation needs repentance.

          • Ann Kah

            True, so true.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Today’s USA is bad and is just another proof that the Holy Bible is right.

          • wulf

            This from some one whose people practically wiped out anentire nstion and stole their countryWhat happened to “Thou shalt not steal” “Thou shalt not kill”? Or did they not apply inthose days?. Or perhaps they only apply when it suits you

          • wulf

            Do you evr read this Holy Bible of yours? Or does it just lie in apromenent place toshow how holy you are?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            God punishes civilizations and nations when their evil is full by using water, fire, and foreign forces. (Genesis chapter 15) Read the Book of Isaiah. Maybe this time, it’s the USA and her dogs’ turns to get justice. For the commandments, read the entire Exodus chapter 20.

          • Ann Kah

            I think you don’t understand a LOT of things, and one of them is that “freedom” and “sanity” are redefined in your world to mean just the opposite of what they mean to sensible people. Another thing is that nobody “imposes homosexuality” any more than someone “imposes heterosexuality” upon you. You are what you are, and society is finally being humane enough to accept people the way they are. Isn’t that what christianity tries to teach people? It doesn’t say “Love thy neighbor, unless he is gay or black or an atheist or a registered republican”.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are wrong. Secular West imposes homosexuality and funds infanticide(abortion) to enslave mankind. The Christians are singled out instead of colored people this century. You understand nothing because you never belonged to any victimized group, being spoiled thoroughly by the gentle Church.

          • essmeier

            You are aware that there is no book called “the Bible,” right? That there are many different books called “the Bible,” and they’re all from different sources and have varying number of books within them?

            Which specific book are you calling “the Bible?” Why do you believe that particular book has any significance that the others do not?

          • wulf

            It is the truth. Says so in the bible, and the bible is the truth, it is because it says so in the bible, and the bibl is he truth ****

          • wulf

            Is this a new commandment? THOU SHALT NOT BELIEVE THE WORLS IS ROUND

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Read Exodus ch.20. The West is being unwise after losing Christianity. Honor your father and your mother.

          • Ann Kah

            Science changes because as we learn more, science is refined and polished all the time. That is a feature, not a bug. Something that is continually corrected to correspond to fact is more to be trusted than something that keeps all its original mistakes and refuses to face the truth.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            No, science changes only because atheists’ theories are all wrong. Truth does not change and is universal.

      • TwoRutRoad

        Your “astrophysicist” Dr. Jason Lisle is off by 66% in his statement. Where is HIS statement of correction? Nowhere.

  • Ex Tempore

    …Bill Maher (tv host and Cornell university grad), has a blog that claims Jesus Christ NEVER existed!………………but, the point being, is that he said, that Americans should STOP claiming that “God Junior” created the Universe!…satire or what?

  • hamfish

    Ha ha, Jason Lisle is no more an astrophysicist than my cat (pictured).