Wisconsin Police Department Removes ‘Before God’ From Officer Oath Following Atheist Group’s Complaint

west-allis-compressedWEST ALLIS, Wisc. — A police department in Wisconsin has agreed to remove the words “before God” from its code of ethics and officer oath following the receipt of a complaint from a prominent professing atheist organization.

“The West Allis Department Code of Ethics has now been modified and is taken verbatim from the Wisconsin Administrative Code,” West Allis Police Chief Patrick Mitchell wrote on Oct. 24 in response to a letter from the Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF).

As previously reported, FFRF recently sent a letter to Mitchell to advise that a “concerned local resident” had contacted them to point out wording in the police department’s code of ethics and oath.

“I will constantly strive to achieve these objectives and ideals, dedicating myself before God to my chosen profession … law enforcement,” it read.

FFRF asserted that citing God in the code and oath is unconstitutional because it could be considered a religious test for serving.

“Altering a mandatory oath to require West Allis law enforcement officers to dedicate themselves ‘before God’ is unconstitutional. There is no legitimate reason to add a religious phrase into a state-mandated secular oath,” its letter read.

“Article VI of the U.S. Constitution prohibits the government from requiring any kind of religious test for an ‘office or public trust,’ which includes the position of police officer,” FFRF contended. “Officers who do not believe in God should not be forced to choose between swearing to a religious oath against their conscience or outing themselves as nonbelievers by refusing to recite the oath as written.”

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The organization therefore asked that the police department remove the words “before God” from the oath. It noted that the Wisconsin Administrative Code has nearly identical language, but does not include “before God.”

Last Monday, Mitchell advised that God had been removed from the Code of Ethics, and subsequently also the officer oath, to reflect the wording in the Administrative Code.

“We’re pleased that the police department deemed it proper to modify its code of ethics and oath,” said FFRF Co-President Annie Laurie Gaylor in a statement on Monday announcing the development. “The use of religious language was unconstitutional and forced some cops to be dishonest.”

As previously reported, the Wisconsin Constitution, approved in 1848, begins with an acknowledgment of God.

“We, the people of Wisconsin, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure its blessings, form a more perfect government, insure domestic tranquility and promote the general welfare, do establish this Constitution,” it reads.

The Constitution also declares that the “right of every person to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of conscience shall never be infringed … nor shall any control of, or interference with, the rights of conscience be permitted, or any preference be given by law to any religious establishments or modes of worship.”

It does additionally state that “[n]o religious tests shall ever be required as a qualification for any office of public trust under the state, and no person shall be rendered incompetent to give evidence in any court of law or equity in
consequence of his opinions on the subject of religion.”

However, according to Bill Fortenberry of The Federalist Papers Project, “To understand the true purpose of the religious test clause, we must hearken back to the Corporation Act of 1661. This was the first of three Test Acts which were implemented in England and which remained in effect until 1828.”

“Under these acts, no one could hold office in England unless he swore an oath of fealty not to God, but rather to the doctrines of the Church of England. This was the kind of religious test which the founders prohibited,” he explained. “They had no objection to biblical qualifications. What they objected to was the requirement that all government officials be forced to swear allegiance to the codified doctrines of an established church.”


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  • Grace Kim Kwon

    If the phrase “before God” is taken away, oath has no meaning whatsoever. Anyone would lie in any way possible. Atheism kills unborn babies and believers. The Western version spreads sexual immorality and suicide.

    • jackson

      Atheism kills nothing. Atheists simply disbeliefe in gods. I think you are the one who spreads pure manure on these forums.

    • TwoRutRoad

      You are wrong. (I got that from you!) If you’re going to lie, you’ll lie, no matter what an oath says or who takes the oath. Those two little meaningless words have no magic power that acts like a truth serum.

    • jackson

      Atheism kills nothing. It is simply the disbelief in any gods

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        The atheists are the #1 killer. The West including America has no experience of atheism’s brutal rule, always cozily protected by the Protestants’ goodness, and that’s why the civilization is naive on atheism. In America, only the soldiers suffered in overseas under the atheists and the unborn children perished under the secularists. Time is changing though, as atheism is advancing suicide in secular nations.

        • jackson

          Honey, the protestants havent protected anyone but themselves. The military, police, and a citizen army protect this land. No christianity needed. Atheists are not all killer. There are just as many “christians” who kill. Atheists are lawyers, doctors, nurses, soldiers, police officers, etc. Atheist are no more evil than yourself. Read Dr Seuss

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            It’s the values of the Protestants that created America. The entire world knows that except for the American atheists. Americans are mere illiterate savages if they had no Christian Protestant religion. Please know yourself. You received every good thing from the Protestant Christianity, including literacy. Stop ignoring your fathers and mothers. Today’s secular Americans are rotten kids from a Christendom. No Christianity = No conscience in USA. Christians created and atheists destroy. A usual business everywhere.

          • jackson

            No christianity needed to be an American. You make yourself look foolish making statements like that. Its a shame that you wont educate yourself on America. Sad but true

          • Rob Cahill

            So why are American prisons filled with christians and not atheists??

          • mucopurulent

            I can actually hear the goalpost moving.

          • Kitsune Inari

            And before anybody tries to answer with “because there are more christians than atheists in the USA”, why are christians (and other religious people) over-represented in prison populations in the USA, whereas atheists are under-represented?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            The answer: Atheists do not live for anything. Christian America became full and corrupted itself into atheism.

          • Kitsune Inari

            That doesn’t explain why Christian people are more likely than atheist people to become criminals.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Atheists legalize infanticide and suicide and nudity and abnormal sexual chaos and religious persecutions. Even their “morality” is a crime against humanity. American atheists have some good only because of their Christian legacy. America has nothing good apart from Christianity. (Psalms ch.14, Romans ch.8)

          • Kitsune Inari

            Even if that were true, it still wouldn’t explain why Christian people are more likely than atheist people to become criminals.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Americans claimed to be Christian as if to say they are a civilized people. Christians created and raised America and even wayward children of America claim the ID. Atheists kill babies and believers all over the world. Christians rescue everyone throughout the world. Americans are naive because they were never ruled under atheism; the Protestants always provided the American people freedom. Christians create and atheists destroy; it’s a pattern on Planet Earth.

          • johndoe

            This nation is in no sense a christian nation……ever heard of the Treaty of Tripoli?? Atheists don’t go around killing babies….how absurd. Thankfully were not ruled by christianity either

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Most Americans were Christian and other kinds of Americans at least treated Christianity with respect. Today’s unbelieving Westerners scorn Christianity because the culture made them too selfish and immoral and childless. Atheists kill babies and believers in communist nations and atheists kill babies and force Sodomy in secular nations. You are a typical American who’s been spoiled by the gentle Church and does not know the real world outside. Read the Word of God and repent your sin to get saved. John chapter 3.

          • johndoe

            Yes I am a typical American. I work hard and have a wonderful family. No churches needed

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            No, you are not. You must stop oppressing your family; everyone should have religious freedom. You need Christian faith to get saved.

          • johndoe

            Im not oppressing my family. Who ate you to say who is American and who isnt? You dont even live in America and its painfully obvious from your posts. Everybody does have religious fredom in America. Read sme of our history as you look very foolish right now.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            True Americans do not come to a Christian news site and bully a colored Christian woman. You are not American.

          • johndoe

            Youre not being bullied . Dont post on open forums if you dont want anyone to reply. More American than you will ever be.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You should write independent comments instead of replying to me.

          • johndoe

            Whatever….
            .

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Most Non-christian Americans claim to be Christian; it’s like saying “I’m a civilized person.” Also in prisons, atheists convert into Christianity. Atheism is the most useless and meaningless ideology in serious situations. People rant atheism when their stomach is full.

          • My2Cents

            You are ridiculous in your nonsense. Morals do not come from religion, they come from recognizing that a cooperative society works better than a chaotic one. “Let your conscience be your guide” and “the golden rule” are both common sense for everyone with a conscience. No gods are needed to recognize that if we work together we’ll get further than working against one another. Your venom is weak and distasteful. And you are a liar, especially to yourself.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are wrong. Wholesome morality is only found in Christianity. All other religions and ideologies and philosophies result in the crimes against humanity by being followed faithfully. Christianity alone teaches vital truth and saves souls from the just damnation and rescues and protects everyone and bestows justice by being followed faithfully. America has no conscience apart from Christianity because Christianity is the only sane conscience of the Western civilization thus of the entire world.

            America is a child of Europe and received every good thing from the Christian Europe. Be thankful. Stop acting like you possess the world. Pre-christian is illiteracy and barbarism. Post-christian is worse; it is blasphemy, infanticide, immorality, and suicide. USA has a too short history and it is trying to repeat the folly of empires that went against God. Don’t. America is nothing apart from Christianity. Chritless America only spreads immorality instead of liberty. America needs Christianity to live.

          • My2Cents

            Again, you are ridiculous in your nonsense. And closed-minded. And narrow-minded. And arrogant. And silly. Morals were invented long before Christianity. I urge you to look at Confucius who lived thousands of years before Christianity existed as one example. I defy you to find a bad teaching among his words. Now, please, go peddle your ancient myths somewhere else. You are wasting your time trying to get me to believe in invisible magic creatures who live in the sky, especially those who kill their own children to heal a spiritual sickness for all of mankind. Nonsense, pure and simple. At least, it is to those of us who aren’t simple-minded.

          • My2Cents

            You mean the type of wholesome morality that instructs people on how to own slaves? Here’s a list of the passages for you to read for yourself:
            Exodus 21:1-4
            Deuteronomy 15:12-18
            Exodus 21:7
            Exodus 21:20-21
            Exodus 21:26-27
            Leviticus 25:44-46
            Leviticus 25:48-53
            Genesis 17:13
            Genesis 17:27
            Deuteronomy 21:10-14
            Deuteronomy 20:14
            Leviticus 19:20-22
            Deuteronomy 23:15-16
            Numbers 31:28-47
            Mark 14:66
            Exodus 21:8
            Leviticus 25:39
            Exodus 21:16
            Deuteronomy 24:7
            II Kings 4:1
            2 Samuel 9:10
            Exodus 20:10
            1 Corinthians 12:13
            Galatians 3:28
            Colossians 3:11

          • Hypersapien

            Was it the Protestants that also accepted slavery, the genocide of the native americans, and not allowing women to vote until the 20th century?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Slavery has been a normal practice of illiterate mankind’s business until the Protestant Christians formally abolished it all over the world. White Protestants alone insisted the education of every human being and equal rights of all men and women before God. No other had such concept of freedom or equality. All others enslaved foreigners or their own women and children, whatever and whoever are physically weaker. Native Americans committed genocides against white tribes as well. Wars killed all sides.

            The English tribe proved themselves to be mightiest among all tribes including other European tribes. They created a nationhood and everyone’s genocides ceased. Men everywhere always thought women are stupider. The English men alone changed their mind. The English liberated the world’s women from local illiterate men’s abuses. A summary of Planet Earth. Americans are the children of Europe and have a too short history as a nation and lack understanding in human nature. Not every Earthling has luxury of having Prostestant Christianity from the birth.

          • Hypersapien

            Please show me anywhere in the bible where it mentions one single word against slavery.

            Slavery is mentioned several times in the bible and not once is it treated as anything other than good and normal.

            The bible is emphatically PRO-slavery.

            Regardless of who started the abolitionist movement in America, they had to move AWAY from the bible to do it.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Mankind always kept slavery. Bibleless America’s 1% enslaves 99% and intends to continue the slavery. Sin is slavery. The Holy Bible alone brings liberty to mankind both now and then. Biblical Christians alone are free people. Mankind would not have had any freedom if there wasn’t the Holy Bible. (John ch.8)

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Read the Gospel of John. It is all about liberty and against slavery. Man cannot stay a slave or hold slaves after reading the Holy Bible; that’s what happened in Great Britain and USA. The Holy Bible knows that humanity keeps slavery like today’s 1% owning the 99%. The Holy Bible commands all to be free. ( John ch.8, 1 Corinthians 7:23) You are wrong. Americans knew no freedom apart from the Holy Bible; they were running away from the haters of the Holy Bible for freedom.

            Freedom was established to live out the Holy Bible. Abolitionists were Christian, both white and black. Western men do not protect women seeing no virgins among them, but it’s still wrong for men not to protect women. The Church always teaches mankind the truth and morality; Westerners know no morality apart from the Church. Today’s West tries to enslave mankind by homosexuality. The West needs Christianity for salvation and morality and civility.

          • Hypersapien

            John 8:1 says “Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.” That’s the whole passage.

            1 Cor 7:23 has vague language that might be construed as being opposed to slavery, as opposed to all the other passages in the bible that flat-out condone it, and even command people to take slaves.

            The point is that the main justification for keeping slaves in the modern world was, in fact, the bible.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            No, read the entire 8th chapter of John, not just verse 1. I think God knew that 99% of humanity would be enslaved by the top 1% in 2016 on Planet Earth. Slavery among mankind cannot be completely abolished until Lord Jesus returns. Mankind can still oppose the bored rich Western pervs since the Western Christian missionaries had given us the copies of the Holy Bible before the West became a Sodom. That was close. The Holy Bible is the only method on Earth to beat the childless Western pervs’ slavery. Nothing else works.

          • Craig Reynolds

            “Stop ignoring your fathers and mothers. ” Near as I can tell, my father was a theosophist. And at age 70, no one’s called me “rotten”. ‘cept you.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Well-fed Americans should stop attacking the slender pioneers of yesteryears.

        • jackson

          The protestants havent protected anyone. Atheists arent any or any better than christians. Nobody is advancing suicides. Do you have any proof of the nonsense you post?

        • Tim Freeman

          What historical events are you describing there?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Mainly the Soviets and Communist China. Americans do not know the outside world because they’ve been protected by the Protestant goodness always since the very start.

        • McKulty

          So, what’s the rate of violence and murder in atheist countries like Norway and Sweden?

          Was it “good protestants” who firebombed a black church in Mississippi two days ago?

          The soldiers overseas suffered at the hand of religious fundamentalists.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            1) Northern Europe is a utopia created by the Lutherans! Learn some history. Atheists created nothing on earth but just advanced pollution. The West is going down after losing Christianity their only conscience. You guys should wear something in public places. Atheists are destroying the Western Christendom by their own hands like the Soviets did.
            2) The liberals bomb churches to make it look like done by the conservatives. Too obvious.
            3) You are talking about pagans. Christian fundies always teach the truth and rescue life and do nothing else all over the world. You Americans are too spoiled by the gentle Church. Learn to respect those who are familiar.

      • Amos Moses

        Yeah ,,, all confirmed A-theists ……….

        Joseph Stalin – 10 and 20 million Soviets and German prisoners of war died under his regime, depending on how many famine victims you count, from Gulags, execution, and forced resettlement.

        Mao Zedong – killed unknown tens of millions of Chinese, most of them in public executions and violent clashes.

        Pol Pot – 2 million Cambodians, or as much as 20% of the population, died from execution, disease and starvation.

        • DJMC

          Hitler was a good Christian. Very faithful.

          • Amos Moses

            Nope ………. he was an occultist ………….. he was an adherent of H.P. Blavatsky and belonged to numerous occult groups and held there beliefs …………

          • DJMC

            Your wrong. Look it up.

          • Ken

            Looks like old Asemodeus got herself a new name.
            Same empty head though.

          • Amos Moses

            have many times ……….. look it up yourself ……….. Hitler was into the occult, mysticism, Thule Society, VRIL Society (child and pedophilic worship), Theosophy, New Age, and was against smoking and he was a vegan ……… cant get more anti-christain than that ……….

          • Hypersapien

            He may have mixed his religious beliefs with the occult, but he was still a Christian. His whole belief system was based on Christianity.

            Just because you consider them to be incompatible doesn’t mean he did.

          • Amos Moses

            Nope ……….. Sorry …….. there is no admixture to christianity ….. there is no dual allegiance …… you are ….. or …. YOU ARE NOT …… Christ does not allow for divided loyalties … that is IDOLATRY ……… you cannot be responsible for the death of millions and call yourself a christian and have it have any validity ….. pathetic response ………… FAIL ……..

          • Hypersapien

            According to your interpretation of Christianity, maybe.

            Guess what. You don’t get to interpret Christianity for everyone else in the world.

            And there is no incompatibility between Christianity and mass murder. Christians have been murdering people for two millennia with no signs of stopping.

          • Amos Moses

            “According to your interpretation of Christianity, maybe.”

            Nope ……….. according to Christ …………… FAIL …………..

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I think it might be fair to describe Hitler’s beliefs as “syncretism.” Meaning he combined different beliefs. He wasn’t a “true Christian” after all, maybe, but I don’t know if he was a “true” anything.

          • Kitsune Inari

            According to Christ you aren’t christian either. Christianity is a sect of Judaism, and you aren’t Jew, are you?

          • Amos Moses

            We are all grafted into that line …. we are all Re-Formed Jews ….. so yeah ………

          • Tangent002

            That’s a ‘no true Scotsman’ logical fallacy.

          • Amos Moses

            has no validity to this discussion ………….. do you go to McDonalds to buy a Whopper ……….

          • Tangent002

            Hitler wrote that he believed he was doing the Lord’s work. Every [email protected] had “Got Mit Uns” engraved on their belt buckle.

          • Amos Moses

            so the master of lies in history is believed by you on that score …………..

            ummm ……..ROTFL and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L …. ad infinitum ………..

    • fizbanic

      Unborn babies are actually called a fetus, a fetus is not life according to the bible as the first breath has not been breathed into it. Also Atheist just believe there is not God, not in the abortion business.

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        You are wrong. There is no such thing you say in the Holy Bible. Life starts at conception. Read Psalm 139 and Luke 1. You started out in your mother’s womb as a single cell, and erasing that off manually is murder.

        • fizbanic

          Genesis 2:7 Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

          I mean really if you are going to claim I am wrong you might want to double check your source first.

          Now if there is anything that comes afterwards well then that would be a contradiction, and apparently there are no contradictions in the bible.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            That’s only Adam and Eve, the first couple’s case and no one else. After Adam and Eve, God formed everyone in mother’s womb. Read also Genesis ch 4, Psalm ch.139, Jeremiah ch.1. You need to read the entire Bible text, not just one verse. Atheists have dishonest studies in everything.

          • fizbanic

            Actually it isn’t just me reading one verse but taking that verse and the bible and having a discussion with church leaders in my city.

            They all agree that life begins with the first breath as God did in the bible, as I pointed out. I talked to them honestly about life. I didn’t sully the discussion by bringing up the part about it being applied to abortion. Well except one, and there reaction was just like yours. Trying to explain it away, eventually I was asked to leave.

            Genesis 2:7 states when life begins, in Gods own words. Stop trying to move the goal posts, not nice.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            What happens at conception is still a mystery, but human life starts at conception in mother’s womb. Adam and Eve are different from the rest of humans in a way; the rest of humans have childhood, but Adam and Eve don’t. Children are humans. Unborn children are humans, too. You were asked to leave because your point has no point.

          • fizbanic

            “You were asked to leave because your point has no point.”

            You claim atheists are dishonest but looking up I can’t find anything from anyone (even you) asking me to leave. However if you want that to happen then stop replying, or you know you could ignore/block. If you’re going to continue to reply I have no choice but to if you are going to attempt to move goal posts.

            “but human life starts at conception in mother’s womb”

            If you keep saying it it still doesn’t make it true, nor does it change what the bible states. It is amazing you’d ignore the bible and attempt to correct Gods word. Again I’ll point out that you claim Atheists are dishonest.

            ” Adam and Eve are different from the rest of humans in a way; the rest of humans have childhood, but Adam and Eve don’t.”

            Yes your right they did skip being kids as it states in the bible however, they didn’t breath, just the same as a fetus doesn’t breath and that is why life begins with the first breath, as God stated.

          • Giraffe-Junk

            Profound…Thanks.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Children in womb breathe in different ways. They leap and dance because they are alive. (Luke ch.1) Every single cell breathes, too. You need to learn science. Unborn children are fully human; therefore abortion is murder.

          • fizbanic

            “Children in womb breathe in different ways.”

            Actually breathing is the intake of air into lungs. A fetus gets its oxygen from their mother through their umbilical cord.

            “They leap and dance because they are alive. ”

            They leap and dance, okay I’ll just leave that as that is all I need to point out.

            “”Every single cell breathes, too.”

            Cells don’t breath, oxygen is transported via the blood to all cells.

            “Unborn children are fully human; therefore abortion is murder.”

            You haven’t been correct on one point at all so your conclusion is also wrong. There are laws against murder and if abortion was as you say murder then they should be charged for it.

            As they are not charged it is not murder because a fetus is not a life.

            If you plan to come back and claim something else, can you at least do some research on it before hand. A simple google search gave me the ‘Correct’ answers to your points.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You would not have been alive today if someone squashed you when you were a fetus in womb. It is murder. You are a survived fetus who tries to destroy your fellow fetus elsewhere. Think logically.

          • fizbanic

            “You would not have been alive today if someone squashed you when you were a fetus in womb.”

            Well ya, that is a given. I can figure that one out.

            “It is murder.”

            And that is what you can’t understand. I’ve explained it already and not going to again. I will say that you continuing to call it murder doesn’t make it so.

            “You are a survived fetus who tries to destroy your fellow fetus elsewhere. ”

            Unless I was a twin I couldn’t have attempted that. Really what you are claiming makes no sense. As I see it, I as a fetus would need to leave my mother’s womb and go to another’s womb to kill a fetus?

            “Think logically.”

            After your last line I would have to wonder if you even bothered yourself.

            Okay logically, If I were to murder someone I would be charged and sentenced to jail time.

            As Doctor’s commit abortion and are not charged with murder nor sentenced to jail, logically I can come to the conclusion that it is not murder.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Being pro-abortion is helping out the murder. Nazis never charged doctors for experimenting on the live Jews and massacring them. The West has no ethics or morality apart from the Christian conscience. Legality is a trash apart from Christianity.

          • fizbanic

            “Nazis never charged doctors for experimenting on the live Jews and massacring them.”

            Well those Doctors were under orders from the German command at that time so if you are intelligent you can figure out why. Although after the war those that committed those atrocities or commanded it were hunted down and charged and either sentenced or executed.

            “Being pro-abortion is helping out the murder.”

            Ya you just don’t get it. No matter how many times you say it it doesn’t change it. If the bible doesn’t see a fetus as life then I don’t see why anyone else should.

            Before you stated I should use logic to look at it, when I did and pointed it out your response to that is:

            ” The West has no ethics or morality apart from the Christian conscience.”

            Seems that you have issues with logic, even when you are the one requesting it.

      • TheKingOfRhye

        You’re a little inaccurate there. Atheists lack a belief in a god, that’s not the same as believing there is no god. Some might say that’s a fine line, but I think it’s an important distinction.

        Also, I gotta wonder, is that name taken from Fizban, from Dragonlance? 😉 I love those books.

        • fizbanic

          No not at all. I don’t lack anything. I know there is no God, it is not a belief. Other Atheists may not state it like that so they might lack that belief.

          Yes good call on the name. I love those books as well.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Well, okay…that’s what you think, but I consider myself to be an agnostic atheist, meaning I don’t claim to know if there’s a god or not, but I don’t believe in one.

            I wanted to use a Dragonlance name in the chat rooms I used to go into years ago, but it seemed like they were always taken. Like there was always a Dalamar something….lol

    • Some Guy

      Who needs a court room when we can just have criminals take an oath and tell us if they are guilty?

    • Ben Lutgens

      You’re an idiot. None of those statements are true. Quit your bullshit.

    • McKulty

      20 veterans commit suicide every day. Was it atheists who sent them overseas? Was it atheists they went to fight?

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        Today’s America is like a man without soul as the nation lost Christianity. Man commits suicide when he has nothing worthy to live for. Today’s America is in a sad condition – not worthy for a man to risk his life for. Secular men are childless and live only for daily pleasure. Atheism is a despair but Christianity provides life. (Psalm ch.14, John ch.3, Romans ch.8) America needs to repent of blasphemy and immorality and infanticide and return to Christ to live again. There is no other hope for mankind.

    • EdmondWherever

      The oath has as much meaning as it always has. If a public official fails to uphold their duties in accordance with their oath, then they’ll be held just as responsible for their failure, no matter who they’ve sworn to. There’s nothing stopping anyone from lying, even if they swear to God. People do it all the time. What’s important is imposing an appropriate punishment when they’re caught. Wouldn’t you prefer an honest atheist who doesn’t fake swearing to a God they don’t believe in?

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        There is no such thing as honest atheists. Americans dream too much and they are naive because they never had reign of atheists. America lost honesty as America lost Christianity. Atheists are downright dishonest; they spend their entire energy to falsely deny God instead of seeking objective truth. Why should anyone quest to be honest when everyone is lying to make gains? Today’s Americans know it fully well. The foundation of honesty and transparency is in God who is holy and demands it and commanded it. Read Psalm ch.14 to realize the truth about mankind. Read also John ch.3 to save yourself. You must repent of your unbelief and blasphemy to get saved.

        • EdmondWherever

          There is no such thing as honest atheists.

          What an awful thing to say. I think that an atheist who doesn’t want to pledge an oath to a god they don’t believe in qualifies as honest. The alternative would be for them to swear to God, when they don’t even believe in him. Is that what you’d prefer?

          Americans dream too much and they are naive because they never had reign of atheists.

          You don’t know if that’s true. It’s long been political suicide for a person to reveal that they’re an atheist when running for office. To succeed as a candidate, an atheist would have to pose as a Christian, to satisfy Christians who would rather be pandered to than ignore a politician’s religion. We may very well have had atheist presidents you don’t even know about.

          America lost honesty as America lost Christianity.

          There are plenty of dishonest Christians. Every day I read about priests and pastors who are robbing the church coffers to buy themselves fancy houses and cars, breaking the laws about religious over-reach into government, and countless sexual scandals, too often with minors. Christianity is no guarantee of honesty or morality. In fact, it provides a convenient cover to deflect suspicion.

          Atheists are downright dishonest; they spend their entire energy to falsely deny God instead of seeking objective truth.

          If you already think that you’re right, and that anyone who disagrees with you is automatically wrong, then I don’t think that you’re seeking objective truth either. I just don’t find stories and claims about gods to be plausible or convincing. If you’ve got objective truths that you think will convince me, I’d like to hear them. But a book with talking animals and super-powered haircuts doesn’t do it.

          And just because you have a lot of conversations with atheists online, that doesn’t mean that they’re spending their entire energy on the subject. We do have lives, you know. But when people see constant molestations swept under the rug, or the government robbing its citizens of their civil rights in favor of religious dogma, that tends to make people passionate about correcting religiously-fueled injustice.

          Why should anyone quest to be honest when everyone is lying to make gains?

          Plenty of people are honest. Not everyone is lying to make gains. You paint with far too broad of a brush. Humans are much more nuanced than you give them credit.

          Today’s Americans know it fully well. The foundation of honesty and transparency is in God who is holy and demands it and commanded it.

          I think that the foundation of honesty is in the reward of trust that it earns. No gods are necessary for that.

          Read Psalm ch.14 to realize the truth about mankind.

          “The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.”

          This is just pure slander. There’s no truth about mankind in that. It’s just an attempt to smear anyone who doesn’t share your religion. There are countless atheist charities, and we don’t proselytize to, or demand piety from, those whom we help. If you think that people who don’t believe in God are “abominable” or do no good, then you just don’t get out enough.

          Read also John ch.3 to save yourself. You must repent of your unbelief and blasphemy to get saved.

          Saved from what, exactly? A God who already knew I would be an atheist before he created me? A God who built his own personal torture chamber, complete with a pre-written list of who would be going there? A God who punishes people for the “crime” of not finding magical stories convincing?

          None of this makes a lick of sense to me. It certainly doesn’t show love, as Christians so often claim. Punishing someone with eternal agony, for no greater offense than deciding to wait for evidence before forming beliefs, especially when it was already known before time began that they would, is not a moral application of justice. It would be a vicious act of cruelty.

          It’s going to take a lot more than some stranger on the internet telling me that I have to repent. I can’t beg forgiveness from something that I don’t even think is real. First you’d have to give me a reason to believe in God. But stories about virgin births and resurrections are not good enough, not when we live in a world full of various religions, various scriptures, and various magical claims about various gods. To me, humans seem very prone to creating fantastic stories to explain what they don’t understand. They also seem quite keen on spreading fear and condemnation to anyone who believes differently. It’s simply not convincing.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            It’s most likely utterly wasted on Grace, but that is an awesome post. Bravo, well said.

    • Craig Reynolds

      So – anyone who uses these words in an oath is somehow more honest and moral than a person who chooses not to? History does not bear out this belief.

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        America needs God. America’s hatred against Christianity and everything moral and noble is what is so abnormal. You guys lost common sense by being too well-fed and having too much time and too much power and being bored from having everything for the longest time. Wake up. USA’s strength will be used against itself; the Holy Bible warns about that.

  • Darlene

    Obviously a lot more Christians need to counter-complain. We’ve been entirely too genteel in the culture wars. Politicians respond to the squeakiest wheels.

    • TwoRutRoad

      Squeak all you want. You’ll just get swatted by the Constitution wielding lawyers.

      • Mr Cleats

        Effeminate males pretend to be tough on the web.
        Cowards.

        • TwoRutRoad

          The cornered kitten has his claws out, I see.

    • Ken Scaletta

      It’s called the Constitution, jackass. If you don’t like America, you are free to leave.

      • Amos Moses

        Back at ‘cha bro …………

        “………… NOR PROHIBIT THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF ………..”

        • Keith Tyler

          Exercise all you want. Don’t force me to. Your right to exercise does not extend to telling me what I have to do, not do, or believe. You know the phrase keep it in your pants? I say keep it in your church. Your desire to control and dominate others is more obscene to me than any private parts.

          • Amos Moses

            people VOLUNTEER to be officers of the law ………….. THERE IS NO FORCE ………….

          • Tangent002

            There can be no religious test for public office. What don’t you get about that?

          • Amos Moses

            not a religious test …… it is an oath and they do not have to VOLUNTEER to take it ….. i want to be a olympic swimming champ …. wear Speedos and be a swinsuit model ……. guess what …. aint happening just cause i want it ……………..

          • Tangent002

            If someone is a skilled and dedicated police officer, why should they have to swear an oath that includes belief in a deity?

          • Amos Moses

            why should they be required to take an oath at all ……….. even the PRESIDENT has to recite an oath that states …”SO HELP ME GOD” ………… but some pissant officer should be exempt ………… got it ………………

          • Tangent002

            We have yet to elect an atheist President.

          • Amos Moses

            ROTFL and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L and L ……….. YEAH RIGHT ……

          • Greg Page

            No, the President does NOT have to recite an oath that states “so help me God”:
            “Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:—”I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
            That is the *entire* text in the US Constitution of the Presidential oath. The fact that many (though not all) U.S. Presidents have *chosen* to add something (or to have it added by the Chief Justice of SCOTUS) does not change the Constitution.

          • Amos Moses

            So you are saying the oath of office does not include it ….. okay …. so what … the solution is simple ….. all anyone who has to take the oath is when they get to that part of the oath ….. SHUT THEIR MOUTH ………….. but we do not have the right to be offended by anothers religion ….. that is not an appropriate response in a free society …………… otherwise it is NOT free …….

          • TheKingOfRhye

            If we ever do have an atheist President, he or she would not be required to mention God in the oath of office. In that regard, it’s same for a President or a mayor of some tiny city in the middle of nowhere.

          • Amos Moses

            We have already had a number of A-theist presidents ………. and they said it anyway …….

          • TheKingOfRhye

            You intentionally miss the point, don’t you?

          • Amos Moses

            Nope …. trying to make the point that an A-theist who wants to destroy this country will do and say anything …… and they have …………

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Okay, I’ll try putting it in words you might actually understand.

            If we ever have a President who is openly an atheist, he or she would not be required to mention God in the oath. Same thing if it was a member of a different religion.

          • Amos Moses

            “If we ever have a President who is openly an atheist”

            Again …….. they would never admit it publicly ….. they would never get elected …. so they would lie about it …. as all politicians do lie ….. and then would say it anyway as part of the deception …………

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I don’t really disagree with that, but it’s still beside the point. No one’s required to mention God in an oath, or swear on the Bible, or things like that. (Example: Keith Ellison)

          • Rachelthemillenial

            Flagged.

          • JohnDoe11

            Did the same thing.

    • Kitsune Inari

      If you want public servants’ oahts to include religion, first you will need to reform the Constitution of the USA to repeal the Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment.
      The “before god” part has been removed from the oath because it was illegal. It was made illegal in December 15, 1791, so you can’t blame Obama and Clinton either.

      • Amos Moses

        “the Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment”

        “………… NOR PROHIBIT THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF ………..”

        • weave

          Is anyone being prohibited from adding “before God” in their oath IF THEY CHOOSE TO”? The point here is, not to mandate it for those who choose not to say it. It’s not a hard concept to understand.

          • Amos Moses

            Not a hard concept to understand that removing it puts each individual idea of right and wrong as the standard …… and that means NO STANDARD …………

          • weave

            I read their law enforcement code of ethics and removing “from God” doesn’t change the meaning of right and wrong as defined in that oath at all. There’s no individual interpretation. It’s an oath with standards spelled out in the oath.

          • Amos Moses

            “There’s no individual interpretation. ”

            Yeah ……… no ………… when you remove God it is ALL individual interpretation ………..

          • weave

            Well that’ just YOUR interpretation, isn’t it? 😂

          • Amos Moses

            Nope ………….. and that is JUST YOURS ……….. 😉

          • kftgr

            So a Hindu police officer has to abide by your Christian god’s standards? Or is it alright for him to abide by his gods’ standards?

          • Amos Moses

            “So a Hindu police officer has to abide by your Christian god’s standards? ”

            if i am a christian in a Hindu country ………. i have to abide by their laws ……….. is it your position that they DO NOT have to abide by the law here …………. and they can just make it up as they go …………… do you consider your position before posting ……..

          • Kitsune Inari

            You are a christian in a secular country, therefore you have to abide by its laws.

          • Amos Moses

            it is not a secular country ……….. that is no where in the constitution ………. cannot even find that word in the constitution ……….

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Let me ask you this then. If you were in this “Hindu country,” and were required to take an oath or swear for the whatever reason…..how would you feel about swearing to Vishnu?

          • Amos Moses

            i would not …. as a christian we are not to swear oaths to anyone or anything ….. Matthew 5 …….

            5:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God’s throne:
            5:35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
            5:36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
            5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

          • Rookheight

            As usual, the argument flies completely over Amos’s head…

          • TheKingOfRhye

            So then isn’t it all a moot point?

          • Amos Moses

            for me ……… not for this discussion ………… and the remedy is the same for all ….. if it offends you (or anyone) ………… JUST SHUT YOUR MOUTH ………………

        • benanov

          “The free exercise thereof” does not apply to the government *making you* swear an oath to god.

          That’s not “Free” exercise. Your argument is invalid.

          • Amos Moses

            They are not made to ……….. THEY ARE THERE VOLUNTARILY ……….. no one FORCES them to do that ………… YOUR argument is INVALID ……………

          • benanov

            The oath is a requirement of holding the position in the government (police officer). Not saying the oath (because it doesn’t match your religion) would, imaginably, keep that person from holding that position.

            Ergo it is a religious test, and a mandatory one at that. Your argument is invalid.

            P.S. learn to type.

          • Amos Moses

            all they have to do is SHUT THEIR MOUTH ………….

          • benanov

            And then they don’t get the job. Which would suit you, a Christianist, just fine.

          • Amos Moses

            hmmmmmm ….. so when a student is in school …. and wants to pray …. you expect the exact same thing …. what is good for the goose …………

          • benanov

            No, a student may pray on their own as long as it is not disruptive. A teacher may *not* lead them in prayer.

            You Christianists don’t understand the difference between a voluntary and mandatory act; you think it’s all mandatory when your god says it is and voluntary when it’s a human doing it.

        • Keith Tyler

          Forcing someone else to espouse your religion is not a free exercise. It’s the opposite of free to deny someone a job because they don’t proclaim faith.

          You don’t seem to understand that free exercise doesn’t mean “force others to exercise.” I don’t know how to explain it to you other than look up “free” in the dictionary.

          • Amos Moses

            AGAIN …………….. they are NOT FORCED …………… they VOLUNTEERED …………

          • Kitsune Inari

            If the Oath Or Affirmation they have to do forces them to swear allegiance to a deity (in this case the Canaanite god Jehova), you are violating the religious rights of those candidates who don’t worship that particular deity. In addition to the No Religious Test Clause, btw.

          • Amos Moses

            and all they have to do is SHUT THEIR MOUTHS during that part of the oath …………

          • Tangent002

            Not anymore.

          • Kitsune Inari

            Then why include that part of the oath in the first place?

          • meamsane

            It’s clear that many on this board don’t understand the actual objective and historical meaning of our Constitution. They are rather indoctrinated into a subjective meaning unattached to anything except their own personal preferences or the ridiculous notion that the SCOTUS’s opinions (at least since the 1960’s) are the “Law of the Land” and not the Constitution itself.

          • Amos Moses

            BINGO …….. things mean what i want them to mean …. not what they have meant for hundreds of years … and i am the arbiter of truth …… that is the mantra of the “ME” generation addicted to selfies and the contemplation of their navels ……….

        • Giraffe-Junk

          You’re a POE aren’t you?

          • Amos Moses

            Nope ….. Edgar Allan is though ………

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I wish that were the case, but I don’t think so.

    • fizbanic

      So what you are saying is more people need to ignore the rules and the constitution and by that say screw what the US was built on. Nice attitude.

      • Amos Moses

        “what the US was built on.”

        Justice David Josiah Brewer (143 U.S. 457-458, 465-471, 36 L ed 226): “This is a religious people. This is historically true. From the discovery of this continent to the present hour, there is a single voice making this affirmation. The commission to Christopher Columbus … (recited) that ‘it is hoped that by God’s assistance some of the continents and islands in the ocean will be discovered’ …

        “The first colonial grant made to Sir Walter Raleigh in 1584 … and the grant authorizing him to enact statutes for the government of the proposed colony provided ‘that they be not against the true Christian faith’ … The first charter of Virginia, granted by King James I in 1606 … commenced the grant in these words: ‘… in propagating of Christian Religion to such People as yet live in Darkness …’ Language of similar import may be found in the subsequent charters of that colony … in 1609 and 1611; and the same is true of the various charters granted to the other colonies. In language more or less emphatic is the establishment of the Christian religion declared to be one of the purposes of the grant.

        “The celebrated compact made by the Pilgrims in the Mayflower, 1620, recites: ‘Having undertaken for the Glory of God, and advancement of the Christian faith … a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia’ … The fundamental orders of Connecticut, under which a provisional government was instituted in 1638-1639, commence with this declaration: ‘… And well knowing where a people are gathered together the word of God requires that to maintain the peace and union … there should be an orderly and decent government established according to God … to maintain and preserve the liberty and purity of the gospel of our Lord Jesus which we now profess … of the said gospel is now practiced amongst us.’

        “In the charter of privileges granted by William Penn to the province of Pennsylvania, in 1701, it is recited: ‘… no people can be truly happy, though under the greatest enjoyment of civil liberties, if abridged of … their religious profession and worship …’

        “Coming nearer to the present time, the Declaration of Independence recognizes the presence of the Divine in human affairs in these words: ‘We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights. … appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions. … And for the support of this Declaration, with firm reliance on the Protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor’ … These declarations … reaffirm that this is a religious nation.”

        • fizbanic

          You missed the point the US was not built on religion.

          • Amos Moses

            You miss the point …………. IT WAS ……….. ALL of that led to the US being built and without it there would not be a US …………….

          • DJMC

            The basis was separation from church and state.

          • Amos Moses

            Nope ………….. not in the constitution ………….. but i will agree that government and the church do have different and separate domains of influence and they rarely share domains ……

          • Hypersapien

            It’s real simple. The government doesn’t get to endorse any position on religion. Each individual gets to practice or not practice religion as they see fit, so long as they aren’t harming anyone else in the process, and the government stays out of it.

            The police department is part of the government, and having god in their oath is an endorsement of religion.

            What part of this are you not getting?

            By the way, this is not just a nation of Christians. It’s a nation of Christians and Jews and Muslims and Buddhists and Hindus and atheists, and many others. Christians don’t get to have control over the law.

            Christians might be in the majority, but in America we have something called “protection from tyranny of the majority”. Simply put, the majority doesn’t get to decide what rights the minority has.

            The majority of Americans are also white. Do you think white people should be allowed to decide the rules for everyone else?

          • Amos Moses

            and the government is not …… the oath is VOLUNTARY and they do not have to take it and they DO NOT have to be an officer …………. “It’s real simple. ” ………. sure is …….

          • Tangent002

            Requiring a religious test for a public office is unconstitutional.

          • Amos Moses

            its not a religious test …. it is an oath …………..

          • Tangent002

            An oath that includes belief in a deity as an authority. Religious test.

          • Amos Moses

            and if they have no belief why should they be allowed to enforce the law …… but you know ….. all the A-theists want christians to sit quietly with mouths closed in every situation …. all these people have to do is SHUT THEIR MOUTHS during that part of the oath …………..

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Again, because you seem to Ave missed it the first time, it doesn’t have to be coerced to be unconstitutional.

          • Hypersapien

            It doesn’t matter if it’s voluntary or not. If the government is putting it forward, that’s an endorsement of religion.

          • Amos Moses

            Nope …………. they do not have to take the oath ……….. and they do not just get to be an officer because they want to …………. no right to be an officer ………..

          • Craig Reynolds

            “government and the church do have different and separate domains of influence and they rarely share domains…” and one of those domains is the making of laws for all the people of the United States to follow without trampling all over the rights of minority citizens – like Amos, who may be one, I assume from viewing his chosen avatar.

          • fizbanic

            No. I couldn’t miss the point. It is simple, is the US built on religion or not? NO. That is the only point.

            I do know that if you repeat a lie over and over it starts to honestly sound like it is true, but in a case of history you can try to lie over and over but it is not going to change a thing.

            If you have to spin the truth to fit your narrative then yours is far from being the truth.

          • Rookheight

            Spinning the truth to fit his narrative is all Amos does. He gets slapped around every time and then just starts fresh with the same awful arguments when the next story comes up. Not worth your time.

          • Amos Moses

            wet noodle slaps are all you have …. so no biggie …….

          • fizbanic

            I see that, but you know there are times where you need to troll the trolls just for kicks and giggles at times. Not hard just lightly.

          • Rookheight

            The sad thing is, he’s not trolling. He probably actually thinks he knows what he’s talking about.

          • Giraffe-Junk

            He’s just a POE, not really a Christian at all.

          • Amos Moses

            “It is simple, is the US built on religion or not? NO. ”

            this nation was built by people fleeing RELIGIOUS persecution …………….. so YES ………….

          • Giraffe-Junk

            Why does the first amendment go against the first commandment?

        • DJMC

          Nice cherry picking. Most of these aren’t from the founders or framers or the constitution though.. Below are quotes from the FOUNDING FATHERS that highlight why we are not based on a Christian nation.
          What the US was ACTUALLY Built on.

          “As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.” – (Treaty of Tripoli, 1797 – signed by President John Adams.)

          “No religious doctrine shall be established by law.”
          ~Founding Father Elbridge Gerry, Annals of Congress 1:729-731

          “The legislature of the United States shall pass no law on the subject of religion.”
          ~Founding Father Charles Pinckney, Constitutional Convention, 1787

          “If I could conceive that the general government might ever be so administered as to render the liberty of conscience insecure, I beg you will be persuaded, that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution.”
          ~Founding Father George Washington, letter to the United Baptist Chamber of Virginia, May 1789

          “As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.” – (Treaty of Tripoli, 1797 – signed by President John Adams.)

          “Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, then that of blindfolded fear.”
          ~Founding Father Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

          “The civil government functions with complete success by the total separation of the Church from the State.”
          ~Founding Father James Madison, 1819, Writings, 8:432, quoted from Gene Garman, “Essays In Addition to America’s Real Religion”

          And yes, there are many more…

          • Amos Moses

            ” (Treaty of Tripoli, 1797 – signed by President John Adams.)”

            The Treaty of Tripoli is not good evidence and is often misused.

            “that while the Founders themselves openly described America as a Christian nation (demonstrated in chapter 2 of Original Intent), they did include a constitutional prohibition against a federal establishment; religion was a matter left solely to the individual States. Therefore, if the article is read as a declaration that the federal government of the United States was not in any sense founded on the Christian religion, such a statement is not a repudiation of the fact that America was considered a Christian nation.”

            EVERY state constitution reconizes God ….. ALL 50 …………

          • Amos Moses

            “And yes, there are many more…”

            And all equally pointless ………. HISTORY demonstrates that this is a nation of CHRISTIANS and without them we would not be here ……. not a christian nation ….. a NATION OF CHRISTIANS ………….

          • DJMC

            It is not a Christian nation, and more importantly, it is shrinking in the number of god fearing Christian citizens. The number of practicing Christians falls every year as more people become better educated and realize that Bronze Age books and made up sky daddys are bullshit.

            Religion does more harm to society than anything else ever invented by man.

            FACT.

          • Amos Moses

            “It is not a Christian nation”

            Did i not just say that ……………. it is a nation of christians ………………

          • DJMC

            Yes and see my rebuttal. It’s also a nation of Jews, Muslims, Scientologists and atheists. So what is your point?

          • Amos Moses

            “It’s also a nation of Jews, Muslims, Scientologists and atheists.”

            Nope …….. there were none of those groups here founding this nation of any prominence ……. ESPECIALLY Scientologists ………. you are trolling on this one …………

          • kftgr

            Even if that was true, it doesn’t mean that they meant for it to stay a nation of only Christians. Otherwise these smart men would’ve specifically stated that as a requirement of citizenship, no?

          • Amos Moses

            it is NEVER WAS a christian nation ……….. it is A NATION OF CHRISTIANS ………… big difference …….. and i do not find them to be all that smart ……….. but if you are going to live in a nation that is predominately christian ….. that should be a thing to consider before arriving …………. No?

          • Amos Moses

            “Bronze Age books and made up sky daddys”

            Christianity Shaken To Its Core As Atheist Refers To God As ‘Magic Invisible Friend’

            ooooo ….. so scary ………

          • Amos Moses

            “Religion does more harm to society than anything else ever invented by man.
            FACT.”

            Is that a scientific, theological or personal opinion ……………

          • McKulty

            Scientific: the most religious countries have the most violence, while the least religious countries have the least violence.

          • Amos Moses

            Again …………

            Joseph Stalin – 10 and 20 million Soviets and German prisoners of war died under his regime, depending on how many famine victims you count, from Gulags, execution, and forced resettlement.

            Mao Zedong – killed unknown tens of millions of Chinese, most of them in public executions and violent clashes.

            Pol Pot – 2 million Cambodians, or as much as 20% of the population, died from execution, disease and starvation.

          • Giraffe-Junk

            What about Adolf Hitler and Santa Claus?

          • Amos Moses

            what about it …..

          • Giraffe-Junk

            I asked first.

          • Amos Moses

            i do not even know what the question means so without further explanation it is a meaningless question ………..

          • Kitsune Inari

            An observation.

          • Amos Moses

            a poor one ………. with no validity ………….

          • Kitsune Inari

            So objective facts don’t have validity now?

          • Amos Moses

            you have no objective fact … it was an “OBSERVATION” ……. per your answer ….

          • McKulty

            Throughout the history of this “christian” nation, your “CHRISTIANS” have given smallpox blankets to Indians, enslaved and lynched black people, marginalized minorities and anyone who doesn’t adhere to the same iron-age canon. You pass blue laws that honor the wrong Sabbath. Your Jesus spoke at length about adultery and usury and mistreatment, but you allow all that, instead teaching hate for brown people and left-handed people and out-of-wedlock babies and the five percent with gender identity issues born to EVERY population.

            Your CHRISTIAN people came to this country came to get AWAY from other CHRISTIAN people whose hatred and intolerance had consumed the European continent. You want to establish that very intolerance here, and your dream is to make us all believe as you do.

            The modern world is built on hard science, technology, engineering and math. I don’t want my doctor depending on voodoo. My government shouldn’t either. Neither should you but I’m content to leave you with your goatherder myths as long as you leave the rest of us alone.

          • Amos Moses

            blah, blah, woof, woof ………… there are alternatives for people to settle in …… they are free to come and go ……….. SO WHAT …………..

          • McKulty

            So, the Pilgrims were free settle away from the Catholics and Anglicans. The Cherokee were free to get out of the way of Andrew Jackson, and you are free to find a theocracy to settle in. The constitution guarantees as long as you’re in the US you can use condoms and you don’t have to eat fish on Friday.

          • Amos Moses

            again ………… as i have asked numerous people before ………… what is the name of the prominent A-theist that put a stop to it ……………. RIGHT …… they do not exist ……..

          • Kitsune Inari

            A stop to what?

          • CTKath

            McKulty, I think I love you! 😉

            I certainly loved Amos Moses’ comback, he has nothing! –

            blah, blah, woof, woof ………… there are alternatives for people to settle in …… they are free to come and go ……….. SO WHAT …………..

        • Keith Tyler

          So, by that rationale, we should go back to British rule by the head of the Church of England, and we would be one big happy Christian nation. Since you keep citing royal proclamations and commissions to defend the notion.

          • Amos Moses

            “Since you keep citing royal proclamations and commissions to defend the notion.”

            cited by a Supreme Court Justice in a SCOTUS case …….. and THAT IS THE HISTORY of this nation ……… thought you guys were all “SCOTUS said this” and “SCOTUS said that” ……… except when it comes around to bite you in the assets …………..

          • Patrick Nichols

            The key point here is that ONE justice said that, not the entire supreme court. There is a huge fucking difference from scotus making a decision or ruling, and one justices fucking opinion. You probably should have paid attention in high school. Assuming you weren’t home schooled.

          • Amos Moses

            flagged for language ……..

          • Patrick Nichols

            Surprise you have no ability to refute my point so you resort to complaining about being hurt by words. Nice cop out

          • Amos Moses

            cant refute a comment of foul language that no longer exists and keep it up and you will be gone also ………… like i said ….. was nice knowing you …. 😉 …

          • Amos Moses

            it was nice knowing you ….. 😉

        • Rookheight

          Sorry Amos, people still aren’t buying your distorted version of history. You have to catch people before the age of reason if you want to convince them. And your period key is still stuck.

          • Tangent002

            Amos is paid by the ellipses.

          • Amos Moses

            i do not expect them to know a history they have not been taught …… but it does not alter it …………………………………………………………………. ……………………………………………………………………………………………

    • Some Guy

      The reasonable solution is that, if you are Christian, you can voluntarily add “before God” to your oath. The oppressive solution is to force your religion on everybody else and make it a mandatory part of the oath. Which one is more compatible with the constitution? Perhaps you’d feel more at home in the middle-east?

      • Tim Freeman

        Where did you get that from? Matthew 5:34 says not to take oaths at all, and Matthew 6:5 says not to pray to be seen by others.

        • Rookheight

          But most Christians don’t care about those verses because it doesn’t suit their narrative. So just mandate a secular oath and if people want to insert their imaginary friend somewhere, so be it.

        • McKulty

          There’s a commandment that says “Remember the Sabbath” and they don’t do that either. Instead they make the stores close on the first day of the week.

        • Robert

          If the verses said that then Jesus would be guilty of those things.. but they do not say what you say they do. JESUS OATH TO PILOTTE ABOUT TELLING THE TRUTH ..AND JESUS PRAYING BEFORE thE APOSTLES. .our Father who art in heaven.. kretzmann bible commentary is on line.

          • Tim Freeman

            If we take Kretzmann’s commentary about Matthew 5:34 as primary instead of Matthew 5:34 itself, it still says we should not want mention of God in our civil oaths. “The Lord distinctly condemns the incessant, frivolous calling upon the Deity in all kinds of garbled forms.”

    • Nicholas J Dudas

      Yeah, you need to be more like Isis, which believes in a Theocracy! Great freakin idea…

    • Keith Tyler

      Yes, you should totally form a mob and convert us all to your religion by the sword. Worked for Pizarro and Cortez, after all.

    • RbtRgus

      Government endorsing a particular religion is unconstitutional.

    • tatoo

      Are you kidding me? Christians have never been genteel. They have been arrogant and obnoxious. I am 70. I was sent to the principal when I was 11 for not bowing my head and praying in school. That was way back when, and you Christians have gotten louder.

      • Bacchus

        You look 90.

  • Emmanuel

    Is there any Christians left in Wisconsin?

    • Some Guy

      Is our children learning?

      • Ambulance Chaser

        I know of at least one children who isn’t.

        • Gary Whiteman

          “one children”

          Yu bee from de publik skool i bett. Yu bee de one children whoo lerned goode.

          • Rookheight

            *woosh*

  • meamsane

    So why is FFRF not trying to expunge or complain about GOD being mentioned in the WIS. Constitution or the US Constitution?

    • Tim White

      Please show where a god is mentioned in the US Constitution.

      • Reason0verhate

        Same place it mentions gays, marriage, and abortion.

        Have fun looking for it.

        • Some Guy

          You can find rights for gay marriage and abortion in the first, fifth, and fourteenth amendments. Religious justifications for banning these are prohibited by the Establishment Clause. You can’t ban abortion because of the Due Process Clause and right to privacy. Same-sex marriage is allowed because of the Equal Protection Clause.

          The establishment of religion by government, however, is prohibited by the constitution. The intention of the founders is reiterated by the prohibition of religious tests for elected offices.

          • ShemSilber

            All of these “laws” that state or are contorted as if to state that same-sex marriage and prenatal murder are permissible and the rights of the individual are null and void when one comes to the Final Judgment, the White Throne Judgment mentioned in Revelation 20:11-15. By the time of that judgment, there will have been no such thing as the U.S. Constitution, and only the Torah the the Master Yahushua (Lord Jesus) delivered to Moses (1Corinthians 10:4; Hebrews 11:24-26) for our benefit, and not for a burden (1John 5:3).

            That is NOT religion, but a fact of life that we will have to deal with, sooner or later, and the sooner the better. May there be always more numbers added to those who ask the Master Yahushua to save us from ourselves, from the 2nd death, and FOR everlasting life, omein.

          • Chet

            May be allowed by govt but never allowed with God Almighty. And remember, it is Him with whom we all have to do one day, some sooner, some later,, but ultimately, all…

          • My2Cents

            If you have any evidence whatsoever that He exists, I’d like to see it. Belief, however is not evidence and therefore will not be accepted as such. Neither will anecdotes. And know that all evidence presented will be weighed and measured against all the empirical scientific data that explains in detail the numerous alternatives that may exist.

          • Chet

            Heaven and Earth and all things contained therein did not just happen by themselves and you appear smart enough to understand that. All life is in the hand of Him who ordained it, be it animal or human, as nothing came about in an of itself, nothing. God can be seen in a mountain’s majesty, a baby’s smile, a kind man or woman, the forest, oceans, glaciers, storm clouds, sunshine, and on the face of one who departs this life in peace. And such peace only comes via one who has been born again, or saved, and cleansed of all his unrighteousness, sins committed throughout his entire life. The precious blood of God’s only begotten Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, via His sacrificial death on Calvary’s Cross, not only paid the price of all men’s sins but as one repents and turns in faith to Christ and receives Him into one’s heart his life is wonderfully transformed. Ask most any man who was once a hopeless drunk or drug addict, an adulterer, a fornicator, a homosexual, a liar, a thief, a gambler, or who cursed God, or broke any of the number of sins as described in God’s Ten Commandments, and he’ll tell you what the Christ of Calvary has done in his life. A transformation that “religion” cannot accomplish. “Religion” cannot break sin’s bondage, restore a man and wife, unite unite enemies, reunite broken families, set captives free nor transform one’s life for the better. And “religion” cannot save one’s eternal soul, forgive no one’s sins, bring one inner peace with holy God, nor grant anyone an eternal home in Heaven. At death, one snaps-out into eternity to either be with the Christ, who, alone, provided entirely for one’s mercy, salvation and forgiveness for all one’s sins, or, one enters the madhouse of humanity. In the abode of the damned, one will spend eternity separated from God and His grace and mercy, one will be tormented in flames never extinguished, one will hear the blood curdling screams of paint and torment of fellow prisoners non stop, as one writhes in his own pain and misery. And as one contemplates events of his life therein, one will recall having been presented with ample opportunity to be forgiven and delivered from this awful place via Christ and His free offer of mercy, but, alas, you would not. Thus, Hell is become one’s indescribable domain throughout eternity, a concept of which man can hardly grasp, nonetheless, true. God loves all us sinners, despite whatever we’ve ever done. And no one is beyond the point of salvation and mercy as Jesus saves from the uttermost to the guttermost, and all those in between. But man must come God’s way, the only way… Christ Jesus said ” I am The Way, The Truth And The Life, no man comes unto the Father but by me” John 14:6, Holy Bible. Thanks for this opportunity and God bless you in your personal decision to trust Christ and enjoy your forgiveness in concert with a transformed blessed life and wonderful eternity with the Master of the Universe…

      • meamsane

        Article.VII.
        The Ratification of the Conventions of nine States, shall be
        sufficient for the Establishment of this Constitution
        between the States so ratifying the Same.

        Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the
        States present the Seventeenth Day of September
        IN THE YEAR OF OUR LORD one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of
        Americathe Twelfth In Witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed
        our Names,

        At the website archives dot gov, you will find a transcription of the text of the Document that is displayed at the National Archives Museum. You can also download a high resolution image of the document and also read article 7 of the Constitution.

        • Tim White

          That wasn’t in the Constitution as signed, but added later by a scriber. The Constitution itself has no mention of a god.

          • meamsane

            Then who scribed it?

          • Tim White

            The version that the convention voted on and signed ended with, “Done in Convention, by the unanimous consent of the States present the 17th of Sepr. & c.—In Witness whereof we have hereunto subscribed our names.”

            No one is actually sure who changed it, although it was a man by the name of Jacob Shallus who actually transcribed it.

            Some historians believe that it was changed during printing, as the form was in common use during that time.

          • meamsane

            So you and some historians don’t really know? Even if this is true, it does not de-legitimize that part of the text.

          • Tim White

            It’s not a question of delegitimizing it, but understanding that those who voted on and signed the Constitution did neither on that particular phrase.

            It simply wasn’t on the document, therefore no god was actually mentioned on the document that they approved.

          • RbtRgus

            The dating format used in that line has no impact on any law in our country. The constitution establishes a thoroughly secular govt.

          • meamsane

            “The constitution establishes a thoroughly secular govt.”

            Considering that religion played a big part in the founding, this statement is inaccurate. That’s not to say that the Constitution is a “Christian Document”, but that Christian ethics and morality played a big part in it’s establishment.

          • RbtRgus

            What, like advocating death to gay people and apostates and unruly children ??(Romans1)

          • meamsane

            What non-sense!!

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Why is it such a crazy idea that a religion can’t inspire a secular government? Or that religion and secularism aren’t compatible?

            “Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s”

    • jackson

      Think before you post. No mention of a god in the constitution.

      • Tangent002

        The document has the phrase “Year of our Lord”, but that’s about it. Interestingly, that phrase was NOT in the original document as approved by the founders and was likely added to later copies by the scrivener.

        • dakdakdakdak

          That’s a colloquialism. If you want us to be literal of our enforcement of the constitution, be careful what you wish for. Instead I’d rather just worry about when our rights are actually being violated.

      • Amos Moses

        EVERY state constitution DOES ………………….

        • Greg Page

          Perhaps…and via the Supremacy Clause, the US Constitution trumps them.
          Similarly, there are several state constitutions that say a nonbeliever cannot hold office or give court testimony, etc. Those provisions are without effect, because they contradict the US Constitution.

      • Amos Moses

        The DOI DOES …………..

    • What It Is

      ..

    • Tangent002

      The FFRF focuses on laws that have a material effect on people’s lives. The presence of ‘God’ in a state constitution doesn’t necessarily have a demonstrable impact.

      • meamsane

        Neither does an oath at a Wisconsin police dept!

        • Tangent002

          It affects the individual officers taking the oath.

          • meamsane

            Then tell me what prospective officer was complaining that he had to take an oath at this police dept as to get the FFRF involved?

          • RbtRgus

            Who is the complainant? The Ffrf cannot bring a case without a local complainant.

          • meamsane

            There is no “case”. They simply wrote a letter.

          • RbtRgus

            A lot of times that works. But they still need a local complainant. They only intervene when they have one.

          • Rookheight

            It doesn’t matter whether an officer complained. The oath was unconstitutional regardless, and the police chief did the right thing as soon as he was informed.

          • meamsane

            The supposed “unconstitutionality” of the oath is only assertion on your part and not fact.

          • Kitsune Inari

            Article VI clause 3: “but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States“.
            It could perhaps be argued that asking public officers to make a religious oath constitutes establishment of religion as well.

          • Amos Moses

            It could perhaps ……….. but it is not based on any reality ………

          • Kitsune Inari

            Neither are most of your comments here.
            Nor your obsession with ellipsis.

          • meamsane

            From Wikipedia:
            The first Congress explicitly prescribed the phrase “So help me God” in oaths under the Judiciary Act of 1789 for all U.S. judges and officers other than the President. It was prescribed even earlier under the various first state constitutions[30] as well as by the Second Continental Congress in 1776.[31][32] Although the phrase is mandatory in these oaths, the said Act also allows for the option that the phrase be omitted by the officer, in which case it would be called an affirmation instead of an oath: “Which words, so help me God, shall be omitted in all cases where an affirmation is admitted instead of an oath.”
            In early America a person taking an oath was someone who believed in God, and that taking that oath would bind the conscience of that person, for he believed that there would be a future punishment or reward.
            A person could also do an affirmation, which was less than oath but still acceptable, like they do in a court of law today if a person does not want to swear.
            The founding generation would certainly laugh at the kind of arguements used today to claim an oath would be a violation of the US Constitution!!

  • Kitsune Inari

    So let me get this straight, a Police Department has to stop violating the U.S. Constitution, and some people get angry over it?

    • Ambulance Chaser

      Basically.

  • fizbanic

    For people who feel the need to follow rules set out by someone Christians certainly feel that mans rules can be broken over and over. It is funny, you complain that atheists don’t have morals but endorse this type of behavior.

    • Amos Moses

      Nope …. first ……… Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men …………. when men are wrong …. and they frequently are ….. they are not to be obeyed ……… second ….. there is no “morality” in following the rules ……. Nuremberg pointed that out quite eloquently ….. and third …… A-theists know morality …… all men do ….. they just have no claim on where it came from ….. morality did not “evolve” and the only way A-theists can even use morality is to steal from others worldview ……….

      • fizbanic

        Don’t quote a book of lies. That BS doesn’t fly well and if that is your argument, you lost.

      • DJMC

        You do realize that the Bible was written by poor MEN.
        I love when people quote the Bible, it shows that they cannot think for themselves.

        • Amos Moses

          you realize you do not know what you are talking about ………. and i see you cannot refute it ……

          • Hypersapien

            The bible is nothing but a book of ancient mythology with no bearing on the real world. The “morality” it describes is disgusting, and its teachings do a disservice to all humankind.

            Nothing it says should be taken seriously.

          • Amos Moses

            again ………… is that a scientific, theological or personal opinion …………..

          • Kitsune Inari

            Again, that is just an observation of the world.

          • Amos Moses

            and a poor one ……..

          • Patrick Nichols

            This coming from the guy quoting ancient, mostly plagerized, work of fiction as fact.

          • Amos Moses

            Again …… is that a scientific, theological or personal opinion …………..

      • Hypersapien

        I can tell you exactly where my morality came from, and it wasn’t the bible.

        Empathy, compassion, and critical thinking. Two of those your bible says nothing about.

        We both agree that it is wrong to kill and steal. Can you tell me WHY it is wrong to kill and steal? Does your bible give a reason?

  • Stupid Atheist

    I’m certain the devout would be just as enthusiastic in their support of a policy wherein public servants were made to praise Allah in their respective oaths of office…

    • Kitsune Inari

      To be fair, strictly speaking both Christians and Jews worship Allah.

      • Stupid Atheist

        They do. And I’d invite YOU to take the lead on any ensuing “all the same God of Abraham” discussion that your observation might inspire.

        I’ve spun my wheels in that rut enough enough days this year, I think…

      • Craig Reynolds

        No, not really – can’t get around the triune doctrine of virtually all Christian sects. In Islam, god is one – in most Christianities, it’s three. In this matter, Islam is closer to Judaism – but for that little problem outside Medina about 1400 years ago.

  • DJMC

    Anything with “God” in it should go. Christians and Muslims= both want countries ruled by “God” funny how different that plays out for each group.

  • Timothy Riches

    Why add the word ‘professing’ in the first paragraph?

    • Tangent002

      Christian News doesn’t think atheists exist – they are all just people who are ‘rebelling against God’ but secretly believe in Him. It’s kinda like why they always put quote marks in every article about same-sex marriage, Pope Francis, or transgendered people. Example: “LifeWay Christian Stores Pulls Jen Hatmaker Books Over Her Support for Same-Sex ‘Marriage’”

      It’s passive-aggressive nonsense.

  • Not PC-Whipped

    Looks like the NAMBLA blogs must’ve posted links to this thread.
    So funny.

  • eassa

    West Allis Police Department has removed its protection, similar to the public schools kicking Jesus and the Father out.

    • Rookheight

      Let’s do a study and see if reality agrees.

      • eassa

        Rookheight, lets begin our study with the result of our nation pulling away from its Founding principles based on Yahweh’s Word.
        Let’s begin at….about 1958 and see the change taking place, however gradual and watch as our nation continues to meet with resistance to success in most areas. After these….60 or so years, the slippery slope is about at the drop off place, the cliff edge is upon us, very little slippery slope is left.

        • Kitsune Inari

          Founding principles based on Yahweh’s Word

          Literal transliteration of the words of the Founding Fathers: “The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.” Please do tell me exactly how that is “based on Yhwh’s word”.

          • eassa

            Kitsune, “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” John Adams
            I suggest that you begin actually reading what the Founders and Framers wrote, not what historians have written about what they wrote and believed. Most of the Signers of the Constitution were ministers and many of the phrases in the Founding documents were titles of their sermons.
            It is completely without foundation that our national foundation was separate and apart from Christianity. They were One & the Same.

          • Tim White

            There is little, to nothing, that can be pointed to that would show that our national foundation was Christianity.

            It simply isn’t true.

          • eassa

            Tim, let me ask you a question. Why did people from European nations come to this continent to begin with? Why did families uproot their lives, at very great risk, and sail across a dangerous ocean to this land?

          • Tim White

            Which people in particular are you referring to? Immigration from Europe covers a lot of ground, and numerous time periods.

          • Bob Johnson

            Jamestown, Virginia Colony, 1607, was the first permanent settlement and it was primarily an economic venture.

          • eassa

            Tim, I am very pressed for time but I will try and respond. If you honestly believe that “there is little or nothing that can be pointed to that would show that our national foundation was Christianity” you have not been acting with due-diligence. Or you are accepting what you have learned for teachers and historians who desperately want to erase our religious heritage.

            To show how central our national nearness to Christianity has been, I will quote two presidents who are not known for being religious men, one was a progressive Republican and the other a Democrat. But even at that, they clearly understand the foundation of our national prosperity and goodness.

            There is so much rich history that proves my point and if you are honest and intelligent, you can find these facts at the tip if your fingers.

            “The teachings of the Bible are so interwoven and entwined with our CIVIC and SOCIAL life that it would be impossible for us to figure what life would be if these teachings were removed.” Teddy Roosevelt

            “In the formation days of the Republic, the directing influence the Bible exercised upon the fathers of the Nation is conspicuously evident. We cannot read the history of our rise and development as a Nation without reckoning the place the Bible has occupied in shaping the advances of the Republic.” Franklin Roosevelt

            As Teddy Roosevelt’s wise forecast echos in our minds, that “if these teachings were removed”……”it would be impossible for us to figure what life”, civic and social would be like. Now our nation indeed knows what civic and social life is like without Christianity as its foundation. What good is still evident in our citizenry is leftover from our godly heritage. When these leftovers are eaten up, our nation will be living in dark days, a New Dark Ages so to speak.

            I grew up in the shadow of better days, and I was able to extend that protecting shadow for a time for my two sons, but childhood only lasts for such a short time. The shadow of better days of gone.

          • Tim White

            None of which actually demonstrates evidence that the foundation of this country was Christianity.

            In point of fact, as has been pointed out, a scant ten years after the Constitution was ratified, Congress unanimously passed a treaty that stated in no uncertain terms that our foundation was not Christianity. It should be noted that the Congress that did so was comprised of many of the same men who signed that same Constitution.

            I have no issue with acknowledging that Christianity has had a role in our history as a nation, but we were not founded on it, and it holds no special place in our laws or overall society.

          • eassa

            Tim, you are being willfully blind and your reading comprehension of the two quoted statements show you are not thinking.
            The reason that families came to this land from their homelands or nations they had fled to for a short time was due to persecution of believers. The Catholic church had been persecuting believers who would not submit to their ruling.
            This is just fact. You can deny…Deny…DENY!!! to your lil’ hearts content, but that will not change the reality of history. Our first elected officials met daily for prayer and worship in government buildings. They even had Sunday services in government buildings. You are willfully low on documentation.
            It was extremely important to our Founders and Framers that no denomination…Denomination… DENOMINATION!!! ever control the government. Is it possible for you to understand this??? Coming from nations where the government was controlled by the Catholic church or the Catholic church was equal in power to the governing power, and knowing the danger that brought about, our Founders were not willing that any branch of the Christian church take control. You need to know and understand history from their perspective in order to have the truth on your side.

          • Tim White

            Again I have to ask, WHICH people are you referring to? Not every immigrant was fleeing religious persecution, nor does the fact that some were doing so place Christianity in some exalted position.

            Christians have contributed greatly to this country, but their religion is not the basis of it, nor will it ever enjoy an undue influence on this nation.

          • eassa

            Tim, knowing very little about you, but by reading your posts, it is clear that you are dealing with bitterness against believers and the Christian faith. Before you can hope to understand, you will have to remove the root of bitterness, about which I have no way of knowing.
            I will pray that God will bring you help, even though you are full of resistance.
            He can do what no human can.

          • Tim White

            No, not bitter at all. Just someone who insists on what can actually be proven, not assumed or falsely claimed.

            I imagine it’s easier to think of me as bitter, or angry, but I’m honestly not, which is why I can discuss these types of issues without becoming angry, or assuming something negative about those I disagree with.

        • Craig Reynolds

          Kindly cite some specific landmarks on that slippery slope and detail the damage done.

        • Rookheight

          So you’re saying thing started to decline around 1958 and we should look for a correlation with our upholding of Founding and/or religious principles.

          In 1954, we added “Under God” to the Pledge and in 1957 we added “In God We Trust” to our paper currency. By your logic, this is just as likely to be the cause of any problems since then.

          In reality, troubles over the last 60 or so years have occurred in spite of, not because of, Americans’ flight from antiquated (and man-made) religious ideals.

  • benanov

    “Under these acts, no one could hold office in England unless he
    swore an oath of fealty not to God, but rather to the doctrines of the
    Church of England. This was the kind of religious test which the
    founders prohibited,” he explained. “They had no objection to biblical
    qualifications. What they objected to was the requirement that all
    government officials be forced to swear allegiance to the codified
    doctrines of an established church.”

    So, they’re saying sharia law is ok now? As long as it’s not based on an established mosque?

    • Reason0verhate

      Actually, Islam and Christianity are two entirely different religions.
      Sharia is a part of Islam, not Christianity.

      Use the online source called “Wikipedia.” You’ll learn all sorts of fun things.

      • Some Guy

        Sharia law was referenced alongside a mosque; that’s where Muslims worship. Christian dominionism has many parallels to Sharia law, but that fact seems to be lost on you.

        • HopScot

          Paranoid morons.
          “Christian dominionists” have never engaged in any acts of terror.
          You people have the minds of 4th graders who get your pseudo-history from comic books. You never read a book of history in your lives.

          • Patrick Nichols

            Yea you’re right, but what about Northern Ireland?

          • Some Guy

            Can’t we have an adult conversation without personal insults?

            Have you never read a history book that mentioned the Spanish Inquisition? If you want a contemporary example, look into the Lord’s Resistance Army. There are also preachers, today, calling for gays to be killed. They even tried to pass a “kill the gays” law in Uganda. Russia jails gays.

            It is important, for everybody, to not entangle government and religion. Extremists will rise to the top, and it will end up as a distorted remnant of the original belief. It probably won’t be your beliefs that are enforced.

          • Nidalap

            So is Russia entangling their government with religion? 🙂

          • HopScot

            Anyone stupid enough to believe the Spanish Inquisition still exists is too dumb to discuss history with.

            It’s 2016. There ain’t no Inquisition, you moron. Blaming American Christians in 2016 for what happened in Spain 5000 years ago is lunacy. So is blaming American Christians for what happens in Uganda and Russia.

            You really are demented.

          • benanov

            500. And ad hominem means you have no other arguments. Goodbye.

          • benanov

            No, apparently. Ad hominem is the last refuge for someone who repeats only talking points.

      • benanov

        Assuming no Poe, although your username and avatar gave me pause for a halfsecond.

        As an atheist, I draw no distinction between one false religion over another, but you’re apparently happy to special-case Christianity.

        This “sharia not based on an established mosque” is a simple religion substitution; Sharia is religious law with the prohibited acts and their punishments written as specified in the Quran. Hence the “mosque” comment.

        My point here is that by saying that “as long as the government does not favor one sect it is okay” does not actually fix the problem, as Sharia is specified in the base of the religion, not in each individual sect.

        • Reason0verhate

          Sharia is part of Islam, not Christianity.

          I’m sorry you’re too stupid to distinguish one religion from another. No Christian has ever, in 2000 years, advocated for sharia.

          You’re hopeless. Christians don’t fly planes into buildings – Muslims do. A 3yo could understand that difference, and yet you can’t.

  • EdmondWherever

    If Christians want God to know that they swear on his name, then he’ll know it. But I prefer to know that public officials are swearing an oath to the public. We’re the ones who will hold them accountable if they fail in their duties.

  • Keith Tyler

    “They had no objection to biblical qualifications.” Yeah, they did. That’s why they WROTE IT THAT WAY, you unAmerican apologist tool.

    • Reason0verhate

      How’s that diet going, Cellulite?

  • Pegasus

    Can we get some cleanup on this thread? I’ve never seen so much blatant vulgarity and misogyny. The hatred expressed her for women who have posted comments is not to be believed.

    • Chet

      Where so, Sir?

  • afisher

    Good work Mikey! Some seem to forget that the US is not a theocracy and no one should be told to swear to a false diety in order to perform a public service job.

    • Boo-hooray

      There is no such word as “diety.”
      You are illiterate.

  • Craig Reynolds

    “…hearken back to the Corporation Act of 1661. This was the first of three Test Acts which were implemented in England and which remained in effect until 1828.” And in 1828 what? So, we’ve got a 350-year-old law from England that was changed in some way almost 200 years ago and this applies to the 21st Century United State how? If an individual wants to believe (s)he’s swearing an oath to some god, that’s all well and good, but it’s not well and good to have a Government entity require a pledge to some metaphysical figure on whose outline and purpose and objectives no one has been able to agree throughout history.

  • Croquet_Player

    Smart move. They would have been sued, and lost. Employees cannot be required to swear oaths to deities.

    • She-Panther

      Look what crawled up from the sewer.

      • Croquet_Player

        You?

  • RbtRgus

    Fantastic news!!

  • american4godncountry

    This is sad

    • Kitsune Inari

      Why is it sad that human rights are respected?

      • Amos Moses

        ummmmm …. because they are not ………

        • Hypersapien

          What human rights are not being respected?

          Christians do not have the right to have the government endorse their religion.

          Everyone has the right to live in a society where the government doesn’t favor one religion over all others.

          You have absolutely no understanding of what “human rights” means.

          • Amos Moses

            And secularists do not have the right to stop the expression of religion ………… and all anyone who has to take the oath is when they get to that part of the oath ….. SHUT THEIR MOUTH ………….. but we do not have the right to be offended by anothers religion ….. that is not an appropriate response in a free society …………… otherwise it is NOT free …….

          • Josef Becker

            When you are at work, freedom of expression goes as far as your employer allows it. Considering the state is a secular institution based on the constitution it has no place favoring any “god” or allowing religious expression. With your free time you can do as you wish.

          • Amos Moses

            but there is no favor to any God ….. JUST GOD … and again ….. if they do not want to say it … all they have to do is SHUT THEIR MOUTHS ……….

          • ShemSilber

            The main reason that so-called atheists raise such a big stink over any mention of an Almighty Creator is because, DEEP DOWN, they have a fear that He really exists and that they will have to answer to Him, therefore they try to drown their fears in their own loud protests, as if that will work. What will they say when they are at the Judgment Seat, when the Master Yahushua (Lord Jesus) says to them that they, too, could have been saved from the 2nd death, had they but humbled themselves and turned from their sins before Him? What will they say?

            Blessed are all those who praise Yahuwah Almighty. As Psalm 50:23 says, “Anyone offering praise glorifies Me: and to him that orders his behavior in righteousness, to him will I show the Salvation of Elohim,” in the Name of the Master Yahushua our Redeemer, omein.

          • Kitsune Inari

            And you know what goes on in the mind of an atheist person exactly how?

          • ShemSilber

            For one thing, through the atheists heated opposition, he shows that he protests too much, and a logical conclusion to that is that he is protesting to cover doubts. If he really believed there is no Being to whom we have to answer, he would just laugh it off and go his way and not try to drag anyone else down to his level.

            Plainly and simply explained: I am also a human being with my sins and shortcomings, but to whom the Almighty Yahuwah, whom they deny, has given a little taste of His knowledge, understanding, and wisdom through His Word. His Word tells me that the human heart is deceitful above all things, per Jeremiah 17:9. Romans 8:7 says that we as humans are not subject to His instruction about how to live. Psalms 14 and 53 both tell us that the fool has said in his heart that there is no Higher Power to whom we must answer. So therefore I know that one who insists on being an atheist has his head full of foolishness.

            Psalm 111:10 tells us that a proper fear / respect of Yahuwah is the BEGINNING of wisdom. If we don’t have that, we have nothing, not a leg to stand on, and without that we will be at a loss for words when we come to the White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15).

            Blessed are all those who ask the Master Yahushua (Lord Jesus) to wise them up as to how to live their lives. He covers our sins with His blood of atonement, and through His resurrection from the dead, He assures us also of everlasting life. If we trust Him to save us from the 2nd death and to give us life, when He raises us from the dead, we will be like Him, having a body that will never suffer and die, as we do in this mortal state, per Psalm 17:15 and 1John 3:1-3.

            In this Great Tribulation that is coming, as the prophets were all inspired by the Master Yahushua tell us it is coming, there will be many who will give up their atheism and ask the Master Yahushua to save them from all the horrors going on around them. They will finally realize that it is indeed wiser to believe on Him rather than to die the 2nd death in the Lake of Fire. May it be so for whoever is stuck in that futile state of mind that is atheism, in the Name of the Master Yahushua our Redeemer, omein.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “If he really believed there is no Being to whom we have to answer”

            See, right there, you just prove you don’t understand atheism. Atheism isn’t “beleiving there is no being”……though it CAN be. I don’t ask you to agree with me, just that you understand me.

          • ShemSilber

            Language is the means by which we understand each other. The “a-” is a negative prefix to Greek words, like “theos” (“god”) and “gnosis” (“knowledge”), so that “atheist” means “one without a god” and “agnostic” means “one without knowledge.” What sense is there in pretending there is no First Cause, or that we have no knowledge of such a cause, for all the microcosm and the macrocosm that is around us? How could such order not have a Cause, any more than a manufactured commodity would have no manufacturer? Isn’t that the height of idiocy? What else is there to understand?

            Therefore I rejoice and sing, because I am assured that there is Almighty Yahuwah, the Ever-Living One who is, who was, and who will always exist, who forgives my infractions against His perfect order by covering and washing them clean by the blood sacrifice of His eternal Son, who saves me from myself and from these Dark Ages and promotes me from this present mortality to immortality in a perfect body like His Son’s (Psalm 17:15; 1John 3:1-3)!

            Praise Yahuwah therefore, in the Name of that Son, Adam’s Creator and never Adam’s descendant, who came in human FORM but not human, for He forbids human sacrifice. His Son gave Himself so that we could live eternally in His Presence, if we accept His offer–for He will not take away our freedom of choice!–of eternal citizenship in His perfect Kingdom, omein!

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “…so that “atheist” means “one without a god” and “agnostic” means “one without knowledge.””

            Sort of……theism is the belief in a god. Right? I do not have that belief, so I’m an atheist, yet at the same time, I claim no knowledge of whether there is a god or not. So, I’m also an agnostic. Combine those two things, and you have me…..an agnostic atheist. What I’m saying is, knowledge and belief aren’t the same thing, and they don’t necessarily go hand in hand. But, hey, consider me just an agnostic if you want, it wouldn’t offend me.

            And then you go right to the good old “first cause” argument. I’ll quote from one of my favorite websites, rationalwiki, on that one, because this sums up my feelings pretty well.

            “…even assuming that there is a first cause, the argument utterly fails to address how we can know its identity. The assertion that it must be the particular God that the arguer has in mind is a complete non sequitur. Why not the deist God? Why not some kind of impersonal, eternal cosmic force? Why not shape-shifting aliens from another dimension? Why not a God that sends Christians to hell and atheists to heaven? Or maybe the simplest of all, why not the Big Bang as the first cause? There is nothing in the argument that would allow one to determine any attributes of the first cause.”

          • ShemSilber

            The bottom line is that truth exists independent of what we believe, and it is available to those who are willing to look in the right place for it, namely, the Creator who formed us all in our mothers’ wombs. Of course, if one willingly ignores the source of knowledge, understanding and wisdom, that is between the Creator and the person. One way or another, you will have a confrontation that will show you the foolishness of such willing ignorance. That’s not between anyone except you and the Creator, our Master Yahushua, the one whom Christians call “Lord Jesus Christ,” but not the wimpy effeminate that many people picture. Your choice, for He will not take freedom of choice that He gave you in the first place from you, for He is not what is erroneously called an “Indian giver,” says the Master Yahushua, omein.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “The bottom line is that truth exists independent of what we believe”

            Yeah, okay, I’m not denying that, at all. I said, I call myself an agnostic atheist. The “agnostic” part of that means I make no claim as to what that truth is. As for the rest of that……um…..how to put it, exactly?

            God sounds pretty damn petty. It sounds like, from what I have read, (from my reading the Bible!) God would care more about if you worshiped him than what you actually did in your life. What you actually achieved, and how your life mattered to others, if you did good to them or not. If God exists, and is like that……sorry, but that’s not something I can worship.

          • ShemSilber

            When you know the truth about Almighty Yahuwah, you will understand that not only is He NOT “petty,” but He is generous beyond our ability to comprehend. First of all, He gave us this mortal life, forming us in our mothers’ wombs, as an opportunity to accept His offer of a perpetual citizenship in His Kingdom with a perfect body like the Master Yahushua has (Psalm 17:15; 1John 3:1-3).

            Those who please Yahuwah are those who worship Him in Spirit and in Truth, by their obedience to His loving instruction and not by mere lipservice.

            Neither our Father Yahuwah nor His Son ever HAD to create us or, since we are all sinners, ever HAD to sacrifice the Son to save us from the 2nd death in Gei-Hinnom, the Lake of Fire, but gave us this mortal life and the offer of everlasting life out of love for us. If and when you know and understand that, you will surrender your cynical attitude and rejoice with the rest of the redeemed of Yahuwah, in the Name of the Master Yahushua, who gave His blood to cover OUR sins and rose from the dead in order to assure believers of everlasting life, omein and omein.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Maybe I should look into becoming a fundamentalist Christian..apparently, it gives one the ability to read minds.

      • american4godncountry

        I will pray for you. Asking such a stupid question like that makes me weep for our nation. God forgive us.

  • Robert

    Oaths to the Lutheran confessions are a far far better oath to take any way. . As it is straight forward on who GOD is. And what he has done to save us by his perfect life and innocent death in our sinful place and his resurrection proving his promises to us whoare true ..
    .The police oath even atheist could take since their god is their own self ,what they think.

  • Nidalap

    “In brightest day, in blackest night, no evil shall escape my sight…”

    • Kitsune Inari

      Is that the Green Lantern motto?

      • Nidalap

        Oath. It’s the Green Lantern oath. (^_^)

  • http://cosmic.lifeform.org/ Thomas Lee Elifritz

    Your problem is that science and mathematics clearly indicates there is no god, unless you want to consider the existence of mathematical infinities to be ‘god’. There are observers, though, lots of them, including me, and I have judged god believers to be delusional, and their churches to not be deserving of their tax free status. Seriously, god is absolutely NOT required for life to begin on terrestrial planets across the observable universe. Science and mathematics is really clear
    on that.

    lifeform dot net slash archimedes slash Cosmic_Evolution dot pdf

    Not only are there observers, you are being recorded.

  • Chet

    What a pitiful act of departmental sissies, too afraid to take a stand in the face of liberal anti God anti Christ liberals. What has happened to the real Christians, remember the call to Stand Up, Stand Up for Jesus Ye Soldiers of the Cross… Now, modernist timid believers are afraid of their own shadow. Instead of telling the FFRF to go pack sand, the leadership prefers to buckle at the knees, drop and rollover…

  • TheKingOfRhye

    Maybe a crazy idea, but, hey, why don’t we just have people take an oath on whatever they believe in? Would any Christians here be all right with talking an oath to Vishnu, or Thor, or something?

  • Reason0verhate

    So in other words, even though we are NOT killing people,
    you still think the two religions are the same?
    Wanting people to go to heaven is – in your view – just as evil as killing them?

    You need high dosages of medication, and a padded cell.

    • benanov

      The religions aren’t the same, but they have a lot of things in common.

      A brief list:
      * They’re both wrong.
      * They both inspire their followers to enact religious law on non-followers.

      Heaven doesn’t exist. You need to lay off the ad hominem and get a real argument.