‘Pastor’ Caught in Adultery With Member’s Wife, Fleeing Naked Won’t Resign Since He’s ‘Already’ Forgiven

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. — The leader of a popular congregation in Florida is refusing to resign after being caught in bed with a member’s wife—fleeing naked—as he states that he has “already received” God’s forgiveness.

“What I want from God I’ve already received it and that’s His forgiveness,” O. Jermaine Simmons, pastor of Jacob Chapel Baptist Church in Tallahassee, told his congregation on Jan. 22, just days after the incident.

“What I am asking of our members is something I may or may not get, and that is your prayers. And I’m asking for your forgiveness,” he continued, receiving an “amen” from those gathered, as well as a standing ovation.

Simmons, who is married, said that he was sorry that his members had to try to defend him, and that acknowledged that sin cannot be defended. But he contended that he cannot step down from preaching because it will appear like his worthiness to serve as a pastor is based on his performance.

“I have to be clear that God is pushing us forward,” he stated. “If I stop preaching, if I stop doing what the Lord called me to do over this, it presupposes that I was qualified to do it in the first place. Does that make sense? If I quit, if I walk away over this it presupposes that I deserved to preach last Sunday when there was no sin.”

According to reports, the incident occurred on Jan. 17 with member Claynisha Stephens, 34, who attends Jacob Chapel with her husband Benjamin Stephens III. Stephens told police that she had been in a relationship with Simmons since October.

That day, Simmons went to Stephens’ house to “talk over starting a business, patents and trademarks, and providing less fortunate kids with clothes and shoes.” But during the get-together, the two went to Stephens’ daughter’s room to have sex.

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In the meantime, Stephens’ husband came home unexpectedly and found his pastor in bed with his wife. He grabbed a gun and yelled “I’m going to kill him,” according to reports.

Simmons fled the couple’s home naked, and Stephens called the police. Her husband took Simmons’ clothes and belongings and threatened to go to the church about the matter, as well as to expose the pastor on Facebook.

However, in negotiations with police, he agreed to arrange for the return of Simmons’ possessions and surrendered his gun to the NAACP.

While the congregation is largely supportive of Simmons’ refusal to resign, others find the situation deeply concerning.

“He made his sexual sin of adultery into a sermon. Yes, yes they say. … Get out of the pulpit, seek counseling, and be under church discipline. This is Scriptural reconciliation,” one commenter remarked. “If he remains in his position without any consequences, he will continue to [commit sin with] other men’s wives and it will spread throughout the church. He is only sorry he got caught. The show must go on.”

“He said if he stops preaching over this it presupposes that last Sunday he was okay to preach when there was no sin. What is he talking about? The man’s wife said they had been getting together … for months,” another noted. “It is the right thing to do to openly apologize if you truly meant it, but as far as preaching he needs to be sat down for a while. … He is fortunate that he didn’t lose his life that day.”

Simmons was just about to hold a signing of his new book “I Need a Man,” which “offers a fresh perspective on the issues of godly manhood and mentoring.”

1 Corinthians 9:27 reads, “But I subdue my body and I enslave it, lest I who have preached to others would be disqualified myself.”


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  • Amos Moses

    /SMH …………..

  • David Nitz

    Gotta get me a girlfriend since I’m already forgiven, too.

    • Ken Faivor

      A little leaven, leavens the whole lump.

  • nineleven

    This pastor should be immediately be put under discipline and removed
    from his authority as a leader. The church board and its elders, if it does not act is guilty
    of fostering and promoting more of the same kind of behaviour. They need to read Jesus’s letters to the churches in the beginning of the book of revelation. just another sign that the American church is compromised in sexual sin. The blame for the rise of sexual sin across the nation may be squarely placed upon the church and its leaders refusing to take a stand for righteousness and holiness instead of unbiblical cheap kind of man-centered grace.

    • Hector

      Amen! If you noitce he is the “Senior Pastor” and it seems like the problems plaguing the church today could be from this group. At my church we dont have a “senior pastor” we have a plurality of qualified elders and two primary voices with three others who go up at times.

    • Roy Hobs

      Paul summed it up speaking to Timothy — 1 Tim 4:3 “Itching Ears”.
      Although the Road is Narrow and Jesus asks us to “strive” to enter; the TRUTH is not difficult to see. 🙂

  • William of Glynn

    What is this new religion? I don’t recognize it.

    • http://www.remnantofgod.org/ John1429dotorg

      It’s called Churchianity or Preachertainment. A religion highly esteemed among men but is an abomination in the sight of God wherein you go to “church” to be entertained and amused.

  • Roy Hobs

    This is the poison of OSAS/Eternal Security. The Christian world essentially believes in “another Jesus”. 2 Cor 11:4

    • Joe Grace

      If you commit a sin prior to your death, and this sin of yours had not been forgiven, were will you spend eternity Roy?

      • Roy Hobs

        Let’s be specific. Let us use the sin of adultery. Paul says that “adulterers” will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. If a man or a woman is an adulterer prior to their death, they will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Adulterers will not spend eternity with the Father. It is my contention that the belief in Eternal Security leads a person into a false sense of security. I believe Eternal Security is the poison Jude refers to.

        • Joe Grace

          The beginning of the passage that you refer to,1Cor 6:9 speaks of the “unrighteous”, and lists 9 more sinful behaviors. Paul then says in the next verse, 1Cor 6:11 “And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God”.

          So what Paul is saying in this passage is, the “unrighteous” will not enter the Kingdom of God.

          A false sense of “insecurity” is the result of not knowing if your last sin, before passing, is forgiven.

          • Roy Hobs

            God forbid you – Joe Grace — were to commit adultery in the future. Hypothetical Question — if you commit adultery and do not ask for forgiveness and you happen to die of a heart attack, will you enter the Kingdom of Heaven? How many acts of adultery does it take to be considered an ‘adulterer’?

          • Ray Nix

            Roy you have to give them a lot of the Word brother, let them argue with many scriptures, then they can stand before God and answer for teaching heresy, that is a sin unto death just as adultery is one. I thought it very important that I post scriptures that prove one can lose their salvation if they get it, (I will post more later) the teaching that says you can’t is not of God, it is of the devil. Most who believe it are lukewarm believers and or hypocrites, and many have never been truly Born Again. I have seen that clearly in my 36 yrs of being born again. However please understand most people who think they got born again never did, because they never fully repented, which means to stop all known sin their life, which is what scripture commands us to do.

            Scriptures that clearly prove once one is Born Again spiritually he can die spiritually, or lose his salvation.

            The calvinist once born again always or as they say once saved always they put emphasis on these 2 scriptures.
            JN 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

            But this scriptue comes with this one first, JN 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: ( Note they follow me, so if they stop following the Lords commands, then they pluck themselves out of his hand or really he removes his hand, either one, but the scripture is void if they stop following)

            EPH 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
            They pluck that one out, it is speaking to those who believed and turned from their sins and the writer assumes they will continue in obedience.
            They twist that to assume that even if they willfully sin or fall they are still sealed, that is not in line with the rest of scripture, a seal can be broken, that is what a seal is all about, like the Lord says if you overcome and endure to the end I will not blot your name out of the book.

            REV 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
            REV 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
            (This is very clear that a person was Born Again and there name will be blotted out if they don’t endure to the end.)

            HEB 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

            HEB 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
            ( So if there is no sacrifice for sins for sinning wilfully then they have sin that is not under the blood, so they can’t go to heaven because there sin is not covered, that simple )
            HEB 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
            HEB 10:28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
            HEB 10:29 Of how much sorer ( more) punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? ( That means willfull sin will be punished with the vengeance of God)
            HEB 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

            HEB 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
            HEB 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

            MT 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
            MT 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

            MT 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

            Yashua (Jesus) talking to his disciples, are you a disciple, LK 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

            JN 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
            JN 15:2 Every branch in me ( for a branch to be in Christ, they have to be a believer, that is common sense) that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

            JN 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

            LK 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

            LK 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

            JN 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.

            REV 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
            REV 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

            REV 3:6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
            REV 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth

            HEB 6:4 For it is (impossible) for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
            HEB 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
            HEB 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. ( Please understand that a person has to experience all of the things above, and most believers have not experienced all of them, this is speaking of a true Born Again person) But this is Gods Word folks and you had best accept it or you are being delusional and will be considered a heretic.

            HEB 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

            JAS 5:19 Brethren, (notice he is talking to brothers or believers) if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
            JAS 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

            2PET 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
            2PET 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
            2PET 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
            LK 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

            MT 25:29 Parable of Talents (about Jesus giving to believers who serve him), For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
            MT 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant (notice they were a servant of Jesus) into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

            1COR 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
            1COR 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
            1COR 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
            1COR 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. ( This is very clear that Paul is saying he could still be a castaway or lose his salvation, very clear)

            1JN 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
            1JN 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
            1JN 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. ( If you don’t do, (do) the will of God we won’t live forever, that simple.

            2CHRON 15:1 And the Spirit of God came upon Azariah the son of Oded:
            2CHRON 15:2 And he went out to meet Asa, and said unto him, Hear ye me, Asa, and all Judah and Benjamin; The LORD is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you.

            REV 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. (This is very clear that a person was Born Again and there name will be blotted out if they don’t endure to the end.)

            REV 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. ( This is very clear that even if one is lukewarm they will be rejected by God, spew out means reject)

            There are more scriptures but those more than prove that if one is Born Again spiritually he can die spiritually and lose his soul. Don’t be delusional it is only to harm your soul and spirit and if you teach otherwise you are committing heresy which is a sin unto death just like adultery, etc. according to Galatians chpt. 5, GAL 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
            GAL 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
            GAL 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
            GAL 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. and 1 Corinth chpt. 6.

            Scriptures say they are sins unto death and sins not unto death the sins in Galatians chapter 5 are sins unto death. 1JN 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
            1JN 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself ( guards himself), and that wicked one toucheth him not. That simple.

            If you were to get angry and say a curse word, that wouldn’t be a sin unto death, but still a sin in my opinion, or a mistake some would say. If I break the speed limit technically that would be sin, but not a sin unto death.
            The teaching of once Born Again spiritually that you can’t die spiritually, are once saved always has doomed and will doom a lot of people to Hell because Satan deceives them and they let sin in. Jesus said many will come unto me and say Lord Lord, and he will say depart from me you workers of iniquity I never knew you. Jesus said it is a narrow and strait and difficult is the way and path and few find it.

            There is nothing narrow and strait and difficult about praying a prayer of believing and confessing it is very very easy and many have prayed it and been told they are now saved, yet they were deceived because they weren’t told they have to stop all known sin in their life and stop willfully sinning, that’s called repenting. So yes there will be many that the Lord will say depart from me.

            To teach once saved always and only by faith, (key word only) is teaching heresy, which is a sin unto death in Galatians 5, just like fornication or adultery, etc. So all of you better take this seriously, thanks.

            I have heard these false preachers twist Pauls writings (scripture) where he says this. ROM 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. They go and say even Paul sinned and still sinned, it is amazing how the quote some scriptures unrightly dividing them to fit their false teaching without going on with what Paul said to further explain himself. So let;s continue with Paul said and not just unrightly divide one comment or scripture.

            ROM 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
            ROM 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
            ROM 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
            ROM 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
            ROM 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

            Now this scripture is the key to the answer of Paul no longer living in sin and obeying sin.
            ROM 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.” So he goes on to say he no longer lives in sin to obey it but he has given his mind over to the Spirit to walk in the Spirit and not the flesh. He says

            Then Paul goes on to say something very very important which is this. ROM 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” That simply means folks if we obey the flesh and sin we will be condemned but if we walk in the Spirit and crucify the flesh we will not sin.

            He then says this, which is very important, yet the false preachers don’t get into all this they just unrightly divid scripture and use the one that says he did the things he didn’t want to do and sinned. that was what Paul use to do folks, as we read on we learn that he no longer lives that way, this is very clear. He also says if he did continue to obey sin he would die. ROM 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

            ROM 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

            ROM 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

            ROM 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

            ROM 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

            ROM 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

            ROM 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

            So folks the bottom line is if we live in the flesh and have a carnal mind we will sin and obey sin and we will die and go to hell, and be condemned. So we must do as Paul said and crucify the flesh and live and walk in the Spirit so we do not obey or live in sin, that simple folks, don’t be deceived by the many many false teachers and preachers out there. It is a narrow and strait path and few find it, but we can find it, if we are sold out and walk in the Spirit and not the flesh.

            So please do not twist Pauls teachings, or Yeshua- Jesus teachings, some of you twist Pauls teachings to with your spin and misinterpretations when Jesus said things that would totally contradict your beliefs so you avoid those and try and twist Pauls as if he knew better than Jesus himself, it is amazing. This is what Peter had to say about it. 2PET 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
            2PET 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

          • Ken Faivor

            1Cor 6:11 “And such WERE some of you:

            The key word there……WERE.

          • Joe Grace

            Correct, “were” is past tense. Keep reading the verse; then (present tense) they believed the gospel Paul preached, which is faith plus nothing. 1 Corinthians 15: 1-4.
            Tell me, is your obedience/performance/law keeping/self righteousness keeping you saved now?

            Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Galatians 3:3
            Do you believe that the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ is equal to your “works” that continue to save you?

          • Ken Faivor

            No, but if you have faith, you will have works. Otherwise what were you saved from? We were saved from sin that leads to death.

          • Roy Hobs

            As if desiring to please the Lord by obeying His commands is a bad thing.

          • Ray Nix

            What a pitiful argument and point Joe Grace. You need to study the Word sir, you have been deceived and you are twisting scriptures to fit your theology, answer to Yaweh for spinning all these scriptures sir. Heresy is a sin unto death as well, teaching something that is not true. You better take that real seriously sir. I thought it very important that I post scriptures that prove one can lose their salvation if they get it, (I will post more later) the teaching that says you can’t is not of God, it is of the devil. Most who believe it are lukewarm believers and or hypocrites, and many have never been truly Born Again. I have seen that clearly in my 36 yrs of being born again. However please understand most people who think they got born again never did, because they never fully repented, which means to stop all known sin their life, which is what scripture commands us to do.

            Scriptures that clearly prove once one is Born Again spiritually he can die spiritually, or lose his salvation.

            The calvinist once born again always or as they say once saved always they put emphasis on these 2 scriptures.
            JN 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

            But this scriptue comes with this one first, JN 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: ( Note they follow me, so if they stop following the Lords commands, then they pluck themselves out of his hand or really he removes his hand, either one, but the scripture is void if they stop following)

            EPH 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
            They pluck that one out, it is speaking to those who believed and turned from their sins and the writer assumes they will continue in obedience.
            They twist that to assume that even if they willfully sin or fall they are still sealed, that is not in line with the rest of scripture, a seal can be broken, that is what a seal is all about, like the Lord says if you overcome and endure to the end I will not blot your name out of the book.

            REV 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
            REV 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
            (This is very clear that a person was Born Again and there name will be blotted out if they don’t endure to the end.)

            HEB 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

            HEB 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
            ( So if there is no sacrifice for sins for sinning wilfully then they have sin that is not under the blood, so they can’t go to heaven because there sin is not covered, that simple )
            HEB 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
            HEB 10:28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
            HEB 10:29 Of how much sorer ( more) punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? ( That means willfull sin will be punished with the vengeance of God)
            HEB 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

            HEB 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
            HEB 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

            MT 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
            MT 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

            MT 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

            Yashua (Jesus) talking to his disciples, are you a disciple, LK 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

            JN 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
            JN 15:2 Every branch in me ( for a branch to be in Christ, they have to be a believer, that is common sense) that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

            JN 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

            LK 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

            LK 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

            JN 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.

            REV 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
            REV 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

            REV 3:6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
            REV 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth

            HEB 6:4 For it is (impossible) for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
            HEB 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
            HEB 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. ( Please understand that a person has to experience all of the things above, and most believers have not experienced all of them, this is speaking of a true Born Again person) But this is Gods Word folks and you had best accept it or you are being delusional and will be considered a heretic.

            HEB 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

            JAS 5:19 Brethren, (notice he is talking to brothers or believers) if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
            JAS 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

            2PET 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
            2PET 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
            2PET 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
            LK 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

            MT 25:29 Parable of Talents (about Jesus giving to believers who serve him), For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
            MT 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant (notice they were a servant of Jesus) into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

            1COR 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
            1COR 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
            1COR 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
            1COR 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. ( This is very clear that Paul is saying he could still be a castaway or lose his salvation, very clear)

            1JN 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
            1JN 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
            1JN 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. ( If you don’t do, (do) the will of God we won’t live forever, that simple.

            2CHRON 15:1 And the Spirit of God came upon Azariah the son of Oded:
            2CHRON 15:2 And he went out to meet Asa, and said unto him, Hear ye me, Asa, and all Judah and Benjamin; The LORD is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you.

            REV 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. (This is very clear that a person was Born Again and there name will be blotted out if they don’t endure to the end.)

            REV 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. ( This is very clear that even if one is lukewarm they will be rejected by God, spew out means reject)

            There are more scriptures but those more than prove that if one is Born Again spiritually he can die spiritually and lose his soul. Don’t be delusional it is only to harm your soul and spirit and if you teach otherwise you are committing heresy which is a sin unto death just like adultery, etc. according to Galatians chpt. 5, GAL 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
            GAL 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
            GAL 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
            GAL 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. and 1 Corinth chpt. 6.

            Scriptures say they are sins unto death and sins not unto death the sins in Galatians chapter 5 are sins unto death. 1JN 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
            1JN 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself ( guards himself), and that wicked one toucheth him not. That simple.

            If you were to get angry and say a curse word, that wouldn’t be a sin unto death, but still a sin in my opinion, or a mistake some would say. If I break the speed limit technically that would be sin, but not a sin unto death.
            The teaching of once Born Again spiritually that you can’t die spiritually, are once saved always has doomed and will doom a lot of people to Hell because Satan deceives them and they let sin in. Jesus said many will come unto me and say Lord Lord, and he will say depart from me you workers of iniquity I never knew you. Jesus said it is a narrow and strait and difficult is the way and path and few find it.

            There is nothing narrow and strait and difficult about praying a prayer of believing and confessing it is very very easy and many have prayed it and been told they are now saved, yet they were deceived because they weren’t told they have to stop all known sin in their life and stop willfully sinning, that’s called repenting. So yes there will be many that the Lord will say depart from me.

            To teach once saved always and only by faith, (key word only) is teaching heresy, which is a sin unto death in Galatians 5, just like fornication or adultery, etc. So all of you better take this seriously, thanks.

            I have heard these false preachers twist Pauls writings (scripture) where he says this. ROM 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. They go and say even Paul sinned and still sinned, it is amazing how the quote some scriptures unrightly dividing them to fit their false teaching without going on with what Paul said to further explain himself. So let;s continue with Paul said and not just unrightly divide one comment or scripture.

            ROM 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
            ROM 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
            ROM 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
            ROM 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
            ROM 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

            Now this scripture is the key to the answer of Paul no longer living in sin and obeying sin.
            ROM 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.” So he goes on to say he no longer lives in sin to obey it but he has given his mind over to the Spirit to walk in the Spirit and not the flesh. He says

            Then Paul goes on to say something very very important which is this. ROM 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” That simply means folks if we obey the flesh and sin we will be condemned but if we walk in the Spirit and crucify the flesh we will not sin.

            He then says this, which is very important, yet the false preachers don’t get into all this they just unrightly divid scripture and use the one that says he did the things he didn’t want to do and sinned. that was what Paul use to do folks, as we read on we learn that he no longer lives that way, this is very clear. He also says if he did continue to obey sin he would die. ROM 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

            ROM 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

            ROM 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

            ROM 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

            ROM 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

            ROM 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

            ROM 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

            So folks the bottom line is if we live in the flesh and have a carnal mind we will sin and obey sin and we will die and go to hell, and be condemned. So we must do as Paul said and crucify the flesh and live and walk in the Spirit so we do not obey or live in sin, that simple folks, don’t be deceived by the many many false teachers and preachers out there. It is a narrow and strait path and few find it, but we can find it, if we are sold out and walk in the Spirit and not the flesh.

            So please do not twist Pauls teachings, or Yeshua- Jesus teachings, some of you twist Pauls teachings to with your spin and misinterpretations when Jesus said things that would totally contradict your beliefs so you avoid those and try and twist Pauls as if he knew better than Jesus himself, it is amazing. This is what Peter had to say about it. 2PET 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
            2PET 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

          • Joe Grace

            So how does it feel to be sinless Ray?

          • Ray Nix

            It feels great to not walk in willful sin, that is what love will do for you. Let every on that nameth the name of Christ depart from sin. I use to love sin now I hate it. If you love me you will keep my commandments. He that says he loves God and keeps not his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him. You will find that in the book of 1st John. How does it feel for you to ignore the scriptures and speak against them?

          • Joe Grace

            Salvation is wholly by God’s grace, not partly by man’s
            works, for in Rom. 11:6 we read: “…if [it be] by grace, then is
            it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.”

            And in Rom. 4:4,5: “…to him that worketh is the reward not
            reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth
            on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for
            righteousness.” Thus salvation is “not of works” but
            “unto good works” (Eph. 2:8-10). Good works is the fruit, not
            the root.

            “All have sinned,” says Rom. 3:23 but, thank God, all may be
            “justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in
            Christ Jesus” (Rom. 3:24).

      • http://www.remnantofgod.org/ John1429dotorg

        The question is whether or not the pastor knew it was sin or not…assuming that he “knew” or he ripped this verse from his bible…

        1 Timothy 3:2, “A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;”

        …he committed iniquity, which is the definition of known sin. In this act the pastor did not judge righteously, and the slayer sought his life….

        Proverbs 21:15, “It is joy to the just to do judgment: but destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity.”

        Christ declares…

        Matthew 7:22-23, “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

        And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

        Notice the “many” in this passage calls Jesus “Lord”. Therefore context dictates that this “many” are professing Christians. Yet Jesus tells them to depart from Him?

        • Clae Brewer

          Understanding “Never knew” does not require a divinity degree. It’s clear to any level of comprehension(no pun intended) …THERE WAS NO RELATIONSHIP TO BEGIN WITH. Professing Christians don’t mean they had the guarantee of Holy Spirit indwelling. Professing means they did Christian stuff. 2 Timothy 3:5
          having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!

      • Ray Nix

        I thought it very important that I post scriptures that prove one can lose their salvation if they get it, (I will post more later) the teaching that says you can’t is not of God, it is of the devil. Most who believe it are lukewarm believers and or hypocrites, and many have never been truly Born Again. I have seen that clearly in my 36 yrs of being born again. However please understand most people who think they got born again never did, because they never fully repented, which means to stop all known sin their life, which is what scripture commands us to do.

        Scriptures that clearly prove once one is Born Again spiritually he can die spiritually, or lose his salvation.

        The calvinist once born again always or as they say once saved always they put emphasis on these 2 scriptures.
        JN 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

        But this scriptue comes with this one first, JN 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: ( Note they follow me, so if they stop following the Lords commands, then they pluck themselves out of his hand or really he removes his hand, either one, but the scripture is void if they stop following)

        EPH 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
        They pluck that one out, it is speaking to those who believed and turned from their sins and the writer assumes they will continue in obedience.
        They twist that to assume that even if they willfully sin or fall they are still sealed, that is not in line with the rest of scripture, a seal can be broken, that is what a seal is all about, like the Lord says if you overcome and endure to the end I will not blot your name out of the book.

        REV 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
        REV 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
        (This is very clear that a person was Born Again and there name will be blotted out if they don’t endure to the end.)

        HEB 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

        HEB 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
        ( So if there is no sacrifice for sins for sinning wilfully then they have sin that is not under the blood, so they can’t go to heaven because there sin is not covered, that simple )
        HEB 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
        HEB 10:28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
        HEB 10:29 Of how much sorer ( more) punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? ( That means willfull sin will be punished with the vengeance of God)
        HEB 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

        HEB 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
        HEB 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

        MT 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
        MT 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

        MT 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

        Yashua (Jesus) talking to his disciples, are you a disciple, LK 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

        JN 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
        JN 15:2 Every branch in me ( for a branch to be in Christ, they have to be a believer, that is common sense) that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

        JN 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

        LK 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

        LK 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

        JN 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.

        REV 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
        REV 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

        REV 3:6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
        REV 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth

        HEB 6:4 For it is (impossible) for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
        HEB 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
        HEB 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. ( Please understand that a person has to experience all of the things above, and most believers have not experienced all of them, this is speaking of a true Born Again person) But this is Gods Word folks and you had best accept it or you are being delusional and will be considered a heretic.

        HEB 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

        JAS 5:19 Brethren, (notice he is talking to brothers or believers) if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
        JAS 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

        2PET 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
        2PET 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
        2PET 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
        LK 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

        MT 25:29 Parable of Talents (about Jesus giving to believers who serve him), For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
        MT 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant (notice they were a servant of Jesus) into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

        1COR 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
        1COR 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
        1COR 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
        1COR 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. ( This is very clear that Paul is saying he could still be a castaway or lose his salvation, very clear)

        1JN 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
        1JN 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
        1JN 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. ( If you don’t do, (do) the will of God we won’t live forever, that simple.

        2CHRON 15:1 And the Spirit of God came upon Azariah the son of Oded:
        2CHRON 15:2 And he went out to meet Asa, and said unto him, Hear ye me, Asa, and all Judah and Benjamin; The LORD is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you.

        REV 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. (This is very clear that a person was Born Again and there name will be blotted out if they don’t endure to the end.)

        REV 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. ( This is very clear that even if one is lukewarm they will be rejected by God, spew out means reject)

        There are more scriptures but those more than prove that if one is Born Again spiritually he can die spiritually and lose his soul. Don’t be delusional it is only to harm your soul and spirit and if you teach otherwise you are committing heresy which is a sin unto death just like adultery, etc. according to Galatians chpt. 5, GAL 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
        GAL 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
        GAL 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
        GAL 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. and 1 Corinth chpt. 6.

        Scriptures say they are sins unto death and sins not unto death the sins in Galatians chapter 5 are sins unto death. 1JN 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
        1JN 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself ( guards himself), and that wicked one toucheth him not. That simple.

        If you were to get angry and say a curse word, that wouldn’t be a sin unto death, but still a sin in my opinion, or a mistake some would say. If I break the speed limit technically that would be sin, but not a sin unto death.
        The teaching of once Born Again spiritually that you can’t die spiritually, are once saved always has doomed and will doom a lot of people to Hell because Satan deceives them and they let sin in. Jesus said many will come unto me and say Lord Lord, and he will say depart from me you workers of iniquity I never knew you. Jesus said it is a narrow and strait and difficult is the way and path and few find it.

        There is nothing narrow and strait and difficult about praying a prayer of believing and confessing it is very very easy and many have prayed it and been told they are now saved, yet they were deceived because they weren’t told they have to stop all known sin in their life and stop willfully sinning, that’s called repenting. So yes there will be many that the Lord will say depart from me.

        To teach once saved always and only by faith, (key word only) is teaching heresy, which is a sin unto death in Galatians 5, just like fornication or adultery, etc. So all of you better take this seriously, thanks.

        I have heard these false preachers twist Pauls writings (scripture) where he says this. ROM 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. They go and say even Paul sinned and still sinned, it is amazing how the quote some scriptures unrightly dividing them to fit their false teaching without going on with what Paul said to further explain himself. So let;s continue with Paul said and not just unrightly divide one comment or scripture.

        ROM 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
        ROM 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
        ROM 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
        ROM 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
        ROM 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

        Now this scripture is the key to the answer of Paul no longer living in sin and obeying sin.
        ROM 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.” So he goes on to say he no longer lives in sin to obey it but he has given his mind over to the Spirit to walk in the Spirit and not the flesh. He says

        Then Paul goes on to say something very very important which is this. ROM 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” That simply means folks if we obey the flesh and sin we will be condemned but if we walk in the Spirit and crucify the flesh we will not sin.

        He then says this, which is very important, yet the false preachers don’t get into all this they just unrightly divid scripture and use the one that says he did the things he didn’t want to do and sinned. that was what Paul use to do folks, as we read on we learn that he no longer lives that way, this is very clear. He also says if he did continue to obey sin he would die. ROM 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

        ROM 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

        ROM 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

        ROM 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

        ROM 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

        ROM 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

        ROM 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

        So folks the bottom line is if we live in the flesh and have a carnal mind we will sin and obey sin and we will die and go to hell, and be condemned. So we must do as Paul said and crucify the flesh and live and walk in the Spirit so we do not obey or live in sin, that simple folks, don’t be deceived by the many many false teachers and preachers out there. It is a narrow and strait path and few find it, but we can find it, if we are sold out and walk in the Spirit and not the flesh.

        So please do not twist Pauls teachings, or Yeshua- Jesus teachings, some of you twist Pauls teachings to with your spin and misinterpretations when Jesus said things that would totally contradict your beliefs so you avoid those and try and twist Pauls as if he knew better than Jesus himself, it is amazing. This is what Peter had to say about it. 2PET 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
        2PET 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

    • http://www.remnantofgod.org/ John1429dotorg

      Once under grace, always under grace is the most dangerous teaching. Thus this “pastor” makes it clear to his deceived flock that it is impossible to lose your salvation. But things like this are to be expected when men choose to read their pastors rather than their own bibles…

      • Roy Hobs

        Amen John1429. Good to know there are others who are on the narrow road. Can get lonely at times.

      • Amos Moses

        what evidence do you have that:

        1. he was ever saved to begin with ….

        2. what about John “6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
        6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.”

        3. and John “6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
        6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
        6:39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
        6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

        • Ken Faivor

          Amos…..I think you’re getting soft on wilful sin.

          Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins,
          Heb 10:27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries.

          • Amos Moses

            no …. i just remember ……

            24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
            24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

            not giving this person a pass in any way ….. but i know several people who thought they were saved …. and they learned later they were not …….. and were posing …. but were eventually saved ……. and if this person is doing and saying what is being reported ….. i have to doubt he ever was saved …. no evidence of it ……. being in a pulpit does not mean a person was ever saved ……….

      • Clae Brewer

        John1429dotorg I guess by the same effort you walked into salvation is the same effort you sustain your salvation. Some people earn their grace and some take advantage of the FREE GIFT of GRACE, good luck with your effort in keeping it.

        • http://www.remnantofgod.org/ John1429dotorg

          Its sustained by OBEDIENCE to every word that “proceedeth out of the mouth of God”. This is why most men cannot see the wrong in what this pastor has done here, they have no vision of what is truth…

          Proverbs 29:18, “Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he.”

          As for this “pastor”…

          Malachi 2:7-9, “For the priest’s lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts.

          But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the Lord of hosts.

          Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.”

          Notice the Lord ties keeping His Law with knowledge…

          Hosea 4:6, “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. ”

          But the pastors today have been partial with His Ten Commandments or have outright taught the people that the Law of God has been abolished or changed. Thus the Word of the Lord (John 14:15) is proven by the act of this pastor…

          Isaiah 8:20, “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according
          to this word, it is because there is no light in them.”

          • Clae Brewer

            The pastor is dead wrong who is defending him? All the scripture you posted testifies against this pastor, BUT! You cannot lift a FINGER to require salvation, you know why? Because its a FREE GIFT given to you just like Love, Faith, Grace, Mercy did I mention Salvation? All Free GIFTS GIVEN based on a repentant heart turning away from sin and turning to Jesus and godly sorrow of the violator toward God. If this pastor ask for forgiveness(and we hope he does) and by what faith he has if any little faith at all God will restore him, maybe not as pastor, but this is the Merciful God we serve and continue to fail at understanding His heart.

            Romans 9:15 For He says to Moses, “I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION.”

          • http://www.remnantofgod.org/ John1429dotorg

            Read the article. His congregation (most, not all…probably the elders) are defending him. If he were to preach another sermon, I would suggest 1 John 1:9 should be the key verse, a genuine confession to those he sinned against and accept any church discipline that ensues, even if it requires him to take a back seat for awhile. Nothing wrong with self reflection, to commune with the heart and be still, to know again who IS God and what are His requirements. What an example that would be to his flock, to show that he is tempted as well like we all are, no matter what kind of BA or seminary attended or “doctor of divinity” degree held…he is still subject to temptation. Pride gets in the way of that oft time. I fear this “confession” is a confession of Achan, one made only when one is caught when all of the warning were give (the wife said this has been going on since October, he is at her house unchaperoned, etc.) But as for salvation, you are right. It is a free gift. As with any gift, we all have the option to receive it…or in the case of salvation, exchange it for eternal death.

      • Ken Faivor

        Hear Hear.

    • Amos Moses

      obvious conclusion ….. he was never saved to begin with ….. so NSAU …Never Saved And Unsaved ………. your conclusion is in error ….. once one has been truely drawn by the Father and given to the Son ….. He will not lose even one ………….

      • Roy Hobs

        Hi Amos…….please search out Malcolm Lavender. He has two books I would encourage you to read: “The Fallacy of the Sinning Christian” and “He Offered Himself: or Priestly Sacrificial Atonement.”
        HIs books are hard to find. He also has a New Testament and if you contact him through his website, I’m sure you could acquire those books. I have extra copies and I would be honored to send you them if you were willing to email me. Just reverse my name at gmail. Sincerely.

        • Roy Hobs

          Should add — google Malcolm Lavender and New Testament and you should find him.

      • Ray Nix

        Totally wrong Amos, argue with these scriptures, put your spin on them and then you will stand before God when you mislead people into thinkng they can’t lose their salvation. I thought it very important that I post scriptures that prove one can lose their salvation if they get it, (I will post more later) the teaching that says you can’t is not of God, it is of the devil. Most who believe it are lukewarm believers and or hypocrites, and many have never been truly Born Again. I have seen that clearly in my 36 yrs of being born again. However please understand most people who think they got born again never did, because they never fully repented, which means to stop all known sin their life, which is what scripture commands us to do.

        Scriptures that clearly prove once one is Born Again spiritually he can die spiritually, or lose his salvation.

        The calvinist once born again always or as they say once saved always they put emphasis on these 2 scriptures.
        JN 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

        But this scriptue comes with this one first, JN 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: ( Note they follow me, so if they stop following the Lords commands, then they pluck themselves out of his hand or really he removes his hand, either one, but the scripture is void if they stop following)

        EPH 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
        They pluck that one out, it is speaking to those who believed and turned from their sins and the writer assumes they will continue in obedience.
        They twist that to assume that even if they willfully sin or fall they are still sealed, that is not in line with the rest of scripture, a seal can be broken, that is what a seal is all about, like the Lord says if you overcome and endure to the end I will not blot your name out of the book.

        REV 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
        REV 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
        (This is very clear that a person was Born Again and there name will be blotted out if they don’t endure to the end.)

        HEB 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

        HEB 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
        ( So if there is no sacrifice for sins for sinning wilfully then they have sin that is not under the blood, so they can’t go to heaven because there sin is not covered, that simple )
        HEB 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
        HEB 10:28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
        HEB 10:29 Of how much sorer ( more) punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? ( That means willfull sin will be punished with the vengeance of God)
        HEB 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

        HEB 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
        HEB 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

        MT 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
        MT 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

        MT 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

        Yashua (Jesus) talking to his disciples, are you a disciple, LK 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

        JN 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
        JN 15:2 Every branch in me ( for a branch to be in Christ, they have to be a believer, that is common sense) that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

        JN 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

        LK 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

        LK 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

        JN 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.

        REV 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
        REV 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

        REV 3:6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
        REV 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth

        HEB 6:4 For it is (impossible) for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
        HEB 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
        HEB 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. ( Please understand that a person has to experience all of the things above, and most believers have not experienced all of them, this is speaking of a true Born Again person) But this is Gods Word folks and you had best accept it or you are being delusional and will be considered a heretic.

        HEB 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

        JAS 5:19 Brethren, (notice he is talking to brothers or believers) if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
        JAS 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

        2PET 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
        2PET 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
        2PET 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
        LK 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

        MT 25:29 Parable of Talents (about Jesus giving to believers who serve him), For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
        MT 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant (notice they were a servant of Jesus) into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

        1COR 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
        1COR 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
        1COR 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
        1COR 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. ( This is very clear that Paul is saying he could still be a castaway or lose his salvation, very clear)

        1JN 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
        1JN 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
        1JN 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. ( If you don’t do, (do) the will of God we won’t live forever, that simple.

        2CHRON 15:1 And the Spirit of God came upon Azariah the son of Oded:
        2CHRON 15:2 And he went out to meet Asa, and said unto him, Hear ye me, Asa, and all Judah and Benjamin; The LORD is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you.

        REV 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. (This is very clear that a person was Born Again and there name will be blotted out if they don’t endure to the end.)

        REV 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. ( This is very clear that even if one is lukewarm they will be rejected by God, spew out means reject)

        There are more scriptures but those more than prove that if one is Born Again spiritually he can die spiritually and lose his soul. Don’t be delusional it is only to harm your soul and spirit and if you teach otherwise you are committing heresy which is a sin unto death just like adultery, etc. according to Galatians chpt. 5, GAL 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
        GAL 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
        GAL 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
        GAL 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. and 1 Corinth chpt. 6.

        Scriptures say they are sins unto death and sins not unto death the sins in Galatians chapter 5 are sins unto death. 1JN 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
        1JN 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself ( guards himself), and that wicked one toucheth him not. That simple.

        If you were to get angry and say a curse word, that wouldn’t be a sin unto death, but still a sin in my opinion, or a mistake some would say. If I break the speed limit technically that would be sin, but not a sin unto death.
        The teaching of once Born Again spiritually that you can’t die spiritually, are once saved always has doomed and will doom a lot of people to Hell because Satan deceives them and they let sin in. Jesus said many will come unto me and say Lord Lord, and he will say depart from me you workers of iniquity I never knew you. Jesus said it is a narrow and strait and difficult is the way and path and few find it.

        There is nothing narrow and strait and difficult about praying a prayer of believing and confessing it is very very easy and many have prayed it and been told they are now saved, yet they were deceived because they weren’t told they have to stop all known sin in their life and stop willfully sinning, that’s called repenting. So yes there will be many that the Lord will say depart from me.

        To teach once saved always and only by faith, (key word only) is teaching heresy, which is a sin unto death in Galatians 5, just like fornication or adultery, etc. So all of you better take this seriously, thanks.

        I have heard these false preachers twist Pauls writings (scripture) where he says this. ROM 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. They go and say even Paul sinned and still sinned, it is amazing how the quote some scriptures unrightly dividing them to fit their false teaching without going on with what Paul said to further explain himself. So let;s continue with Paul said and not just unrightly divide one comment or scripture.

        ROM 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
        ROM 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
        ROM 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
        ROM 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
        ROM 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

        Now this scripture is the key to the answer of Paul no longer living in sin and obeying sin.
        ROM 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.” So he goes on to say he no longer lives in sin to obey it but he has given his mind over to the Spirit to walk in the Spirit and not the flesh. He says

        Then Paul goes on to say something very very important which is this. ROM 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” That simply means folks if we obey the flesh and sin we will be condemned but if we walk in the Spirit and crucify the flesh we will not sin.

        He then says this, which is very important, yet the false preachers don’t get into all this they just unrightly divid scripture and use the one that says he did the things he didn’t want to do and sinned. that was what Paul use to do folks, as we read on we learn that he no longer lives that way, this is very clear. He also says if he did continue to obey sin he would die. ROM 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

        ROM 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

        ROM 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

        ROM 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

        ROM 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

        ROM 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

        ROM 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

        So folks the bottom line is if we live in the flesh and have a carnal mind we will sin and obey sin and we will die and go to hell, and be condemned. So we must do as Paul said and crucify the flesh and live and walk in the Spirit so we do not obey or live in sin, that simple folks, don’t be deceived by the many many false teachers and preachers out there. It is a narrow and strait path and few find it, but we can find it, if we are sold out and walk in the Spirit and not the flesh.

        So please do not twist Pauls teachings, or Yeshua- Jesus teachings, some of you twist Pauls teachings to with your spin and misinterpretations when Jesus said things that would totally contradict your beliefs so you avoid those and try and twist Pauls as if he knew better than Jesus himself, it is amazing. This is what Peter had to say about it. 2PET 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
        2PET 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

        • Amos Moses

          i dont have to spin them …… no one can wrest a saved soul from Christ if the Father has given them to Christ ………. and the “spin” is yours ………. any other belief is arrogance of “free will” heresy ….. that our will is greater than Father/Son Holy Spirit …… and the only conclusion can be …. they were never saved to begin with in the first place ………. a person who lives a life of gross open sin is not saved and never was …………

          • Ray Nix

            You are truly deceived Amos and twisting the scriptures. When one disregards the many scriptures I quoted above to believe that a person cannot lose their salvation, they are a heretic, preaching heresy. He will even spew the lukewarm out of his mouth sir. He says if we don’t overcome and endure to the end he will blot our name out of the book sir, many scriptures that destroy your Calvinistic heresy.

          • Amos Moses

            “Note they follow me, so if they stop following the Lords commands, then they pluck themselves out of his hand or really he removes his hand, either one, but the scripture is void if they stop following”

            Nope …. they stopped following because they were not His sheep …. they could not accept His word ….. and although they may have fooled some into thinking they were saved ….. they did not fool Christ …. and when it came time for the rubber to hit the road …. their fooling of themselves ended ….. they did not “pluck” anything …. they were never “in” His hand …..

          • Ray Nix

            Keep on twisting the Word Amos, you will answer for it one day. When many scriptures destroy your belief then that proves the way you interpret the ones you use is wrong. Scripture doesn’t contradict itself, I clearly understand all the scriptures you use when put into the right context with all of the Word. Spin these, while you are spinning, and also the many others I gave you that you aren’t addressing. HEB 6:4 For it is (impossible) for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
            HEB 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
            HEB 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. ( Please understand that a person has to experience all of the things above, and most believers have not experienced all of them, this is speaking of a true Born Again person) But this is Gods Word folks and you had best accept it or you are being delusional and will be considered a heretic.

            HEB 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

            JAS 5:19 Brethren, (notice he is talking to brothers or believers) if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
            JAS 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

            2PET 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
            2PET 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
            2PET 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
            LK 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

            REV 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

          • Amos Moses

            again … there is no twisting …. except on your part ….. and it is Arminian twisting at that … “Scripture doesn’t contradict itself” …… absolutely ….. scripture is contradicting YOU …… so you have a problem ………… with scripture ……….

          • Amos Moses

            so again ……

            Show me even one sheep that “chose” it shepherd …….. just one ….. Christ did not mean that to be hyperbole …. we are sheep …. too stupid to even know not to do the wrong thing …
            *Sheep are among the dumbest of all creatures
            * Sheep respond to the shepherd’s voice.
            *Sheep are Directionless
            *Sheep are weak and need a shepherd/people are spiritually weak and need THE Shepherd.
            • Sheep become restless.
            *A Sheep is a Personal, a Prized and a Precious Possession
            *Sheep need plenty of water.
            *Sheep follow the voice of their own Shepherd (no other shepherd).
            *Sheep can not get up on their own.
            Sheep are incapable of deciding who their shepherd is …. the shepherd chooses the sheep …. not the other way around ………

          • Amos Moses

            and who has said

            1. “calvinism” is heresy …
            2. and why are you talking about calvinism when the discussion is SCRIPTURE and what it says …….
            3. “calvinism” is just a red herring ………..

            FAIL …………

        • Amos Moses

          “I have seen that clearly in my 36 yrs of being born again. ”

          your “feelings” and your “experience” is not relevant ………….

        • Amos Moses

          “JN 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me”

          Show me even one sheep that “chose” it shepherd …….. just one ….. Christ did not mean that to be hyperbole …. we are sheep …. too stupid to even know not to do the wrong thing …
          *Sheep are among the dumbest of all creatures
          * Sheep respond to the shepherd’s voice.
          *Sheep are Directionless
          *Sheep are weak and need a shepherd/people are spiritually weak and need THE Shepherd.
          • Sheep become restless.
          *A Sheep is a Personal, a Prized and a Precious Possession
          *Sheep need plenty of water.
          *Sheep follow the voice of their own Shepherd (no other shepherd).
          *Sheep can not get up on their own.

          Sheep are incapable of deciding who their shepherd is …. the shepherd chooses the sheep …. not the other way around ………

    • Clae Brewer

      No one believes in OSAS, that’s just a platform so OSNASers can imprison everyone with merited works. If this Pastor has godly sorrow some day God will forgive him. But right now his witness is ruined and he needs to be fired as pastor and mark my word God will correct him, just like He would chasten anyone one caught in sin and if God chastens you it’s because He loves you.

      • Roy Hobs

        “….imprison everyone with merited works….”

        Yes….just as Jesus did — “He who has My commandments and keeps them is he who loves Me….” John 14:21

        And Paul — “… in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power…” 2 Thess 1:8

        Paul and Jesus “imprisoning” us.

        • Clae Brewer

          Roy Actually you are propagating a standard to keep people in fear and in failure. There is no imprisonment in Jesus because where the Spirit of the Lord is the is freedom. No one (believer)person is going say” Cool i’m saved and are going to heaven now I get to sin all I want”. Like most believers who live under privileged you suggest that doing good gets one into heaven. And these are the ‘Lord Lords’ and the ‘ I never knew yous’ and their short falls for lip service and merited deeds.

          Ephesians 2:8
          For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

          This has nothing to do with OSAS but GRACE by FAITH is what saves us not or WORKS lest anyone say ” It’s because I haven’t sinned in a 3 years this should get me into heaven”.

          2 Corinthians 1:21-22 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, 22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

          Remember these two words which salvation stealers defy… ‘SEALED’ and ‘GUARANTEE’

          By the way Paul’s blood couldn’t save himself or even his converts,

          • Roy Hobs

            you are propagating a standard to keep people in fear and in failure.
            Umm………….No, that was the Lord and Savior’s words, not mine.

          • Clae Brewer

            The Devil can twist the word and say it’s in the bible and validate it by saying “God said it not me”

            Matthew 4:6 and *said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down; for it is written,
            ‘HE WILL COMMAND HIS ANGELS CONCERNING YOU’;
            and
            ‘ON their HANDS THEY WILL BEAR YOU UP,
            SO THAT YOU WILL NOT STRIKE YOUR FOOT AGAINST A STONE.’”

            His agenda is to sway people into his diabolical plan for his purpose and some Christians like Satan use the word to encapsulate their purpose, in this case yours is to steal hope and create confusion and brow beat folks into believing your testimony is THE TEMPLATE FOR ALL and is THE WAY everyone should reverence Him and you recklessly use scripture to dare folks to disagree. Just because you’re terrified of losing your salvation does not mean everyone should accompany you in your personal fears. Just my observance.

            Philippians 2:12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;

          • Roy Hobs

            All I did was quote the words of Jesus and Paul. Your view is very revealing. But not surprising.

          • Clae Brewer

            An exchange in dialog my friend it’s only healthy if we consider the admonishment in each others words.

          • Roy Hobs

            if we consider the admonishment in each others words.
            I pray you are sincere.

          • Ken Faivor

            “No one (believer)person is going say” Cool i’m saved and are going to heaven now I get to sin all I want”
            ………………………………………
            It seems that is exactly what this pastor is saying in his actions if not words.

      • Ken Faivor

        Jas_3:1 Be not many of you teachers, my brethren, knowing that we shall receive heavier judgment.

        • Clae Brewer

          Ken Faivor, what is the point your making, Sir? Try this one…

          Romans 14:4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

          • Ken Faivor

            That is for doctrinal differences, not outward imorality. This is for outward imorality.

            1Co 5:1 It is actually reported that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not even among the Gentiles, that one of you hath his father’s wife.
            1Co 5:2 And ye are puffed up, and did not rather mourn, that he that had done this deed might be taken away from among you.
            1Co 5:3 For I verily, being absent in body but present in spirit, have already as though I were present judged him that hath so wrought this thing,
            1Co 5:4 in the name of our Lord Jesus, ye being gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus,
            1Co 5:5 to deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
            1Co 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
            1Co 5:7 Purge out the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, even as ye are unleavened. For our passover also hath been sacrificed, even Christ:
            1Co 5:8 wherefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
            1Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in my epistle to have no company with fornicators;
            1Co 5:10 not at all meaning with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous and extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world:
            1Co 5:11 but as it is, I wrote unto you not to keep company, if any man that is named a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such a one no, not to eat.
            1Co 5:12 For what have I to do with judging them that are without? Do not ye judge them that are within?
            1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Put away the wicked man from among yourselves.

          • Clae Brewer

            All doctrine is profitable. I used that scripture to make a small point to support my claim. Not to expose anything or anyone. And that particular scripture blanket all cases of belief as God will allow ministers to fall, but in the same breath restore them, in His rich grace. 2 Timothy 3:16 NKJV
            All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

          • Ken Faivor

            I’m thinking that you thought my comment was directed at you……. It was not. My comment was directed at the pasture in the article.

          • Clae Brewer

            I do apologize, forgive me. sorry Bro.

          • Ken Faivor

            I should have made it more clear in the first place.

    • Ray Nix

      Amen Roy.

      • Roy Hobs

        Greetings Ray. Comforting knowing there are others who understand the Lord’s Atonement. If you haven’t already, get your hands on Malcolm Lavender’s books. This will only confirm and strengthen your convictions in a world of unbelief. If you want to ‘sharpen iron’ you can email me. Just turn my name around. It is a gmail account. Peace to you.

  • https://fb.me/amanda.wait Amanda Wait

    Actions have consequences. Church discipline needs to take place. This is not church discipline. Is the pastor above discipline? You need to step down mister. Yes you can be forgiven but that does not mean you can continue shepherding God’s sheep! Get to stepping!

  • http://www.remnantofgod.org/ John1429dotorg

    Proverbs 20:6, “Most men will proclaim every one his own goodness: but a faithful man who can find?”

  • ConCern

    Normally when a Man especially a Pastor is caught in these issues of sex, I often wonder if their wives were giving the sex? Was he satisfied sexually at home? I have my doubts, given the culture we are in today.
    Having said that, I think you should resign because he has brought public disgrace to the body of Christ and his Church.
    If he does not, then how can he administer discipline when the head Deacon start to screw his wife in the basement.? How can he administer discipline when the music minister is having sex with the worship leader on the organ, somewhere in the back.?
    It is in his best interest that he accept discipline for the future of his own Ministry and his marriage.

    • Ken Faivor

      The orgy church of the unholy……no pants required.

      • ConCern

        what about panties? are they required ?

  • Ray Smith

    Stepford women.

  • Ken Faivor

    It would seem to me that he should have his wife and his mistress’s husband up there when he gave what should have been his last sermon.

  • Danae D.

    Really? Sounds a little like people drinking kool-aid to me… This man cleverly hides his true heart, a heart that is genuinely not remorseful. The man is deceived, and a great manipulator… Deception is the blinded to the blinded. We are only as wise/ or just as deceived as the teachers we choose… Read and study your Bible… people… with God, His living Spirit, in the mix!

  • Ken Faivor

    I wonder, who here thinks this man repented of his sins?……….
    He got caught, and there is a big difference. If he didn’t get caught he would still be doing his wicked deeds today…….. Now he is afraid of losing his job. I’m sure he is very sorry that he didn’t get a cheap motel room.

    2Co_7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance unto salvation, a repentance which bringeth no regret: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

    • http://www.gmail.com/ David van Heerden

      I do: I think that whatever that phrase “repent of your sins” means, he thinks he did it: he supposes that by his works of “repentance” he earned himself everlasting salvation – and any notion of faith in Christ is by no means alone. I am, however, struggling to find that phrase “repent of your sins” in the Bible. I hear that “repent of your sins” is in the book of Mormon more than just a few times. Maybe I just have a particularly good Bible, but my Bible is full of explanations about how God repents – God repents more than anyone else does in my Bible (especially in Jonah). My Bible seems to indicate that salvation is by grace through faith, and not of works, so that no man can boast.

      • Ken Faivor

        Luk 24:46 and he said unto them, Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer, and rise again from the dead the third day;
        Luk 24:47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name unto all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

        • http://www.gmail.com/ David van Heerden

          It’s not there. You’re suggesting “(repentance and remission)(of sins)”, meaning “(repentance of sins) and (remission of sins)” rather than “(repentance) and (remission of sins)”. If you are into corrupting the word of God, you may like the ESV’s spin on this verse – they say “for the” instead of “and” – isn’t that what the natural man would have it say, “Do some works of righteousness, and be saved”?

          • Ken Faivor

            I’ll just call you zig-zag. Just accept the verse as is, skip the (((()))).
            The grace of God is what causes us to repent (turn from sin). It comes after we confess our sins to the Lord as we then lean on the Lord who has the power to hold us upright.

            1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

            It’s not His will that we continue to sin is it?

          • http://www.gmail.com/ David van Heerden

            Repent don’t mean “turn from sin”. If it does, then God is a sinner, since it is God that repents of evil – search the AV for verses that say “repent”, “evil”. You cannot make this word mean what you say. Neither is “propitiation” an exchange (ask a good dictionary): we are justified by faith apart from works.
            The inheritance I have is incorruptible, and undefiled, and fades not away, reserved in heaven for me, by the power of God. No sin is going to defile it, nor corrupt it, nor cause it to fade away, nor break the power of God and the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ. Get that straight, and then ask the question about how we are called to live: how we should feel about sin. First things first.

          • Ken Faivor

            Repentance means to change your mind.

            We think we convince people sometimes into knowing the Lord, accepting the Lord, accepting a doctrine, but, it really doesn’t work that way, does it? The Bible says God grants repentance. Proverbs 21:1 is a good scripture reference, among others.

            Proverbs 21:1 The king’s heart is in the hand of Jehovah as the watercourses: He turneth it whithersoever he will.

            God is the only one that the Bible gives credit for being sovereign; the devil has no sovereignty. God works all things after the council of His own will; He doesn’t council with us about what He wants to do – right? A man can receive nothing except it come from heaven, the Bible says. Proverbs 21:1 says the king’s heart is in the hand of the Lord as the watercourses or as the channels, He turneth it whithersoever He will. In other words, God can turn a person’s heart any way He wants to turn it; and He did that with us. We didn’t choose Him, Jesus said; He chose us. Blessed is the man that thou choosest and cause to approach unto thee. God causes us to approach Him. Before approaching Him, we really just wanted to go our own way and do our own thing, but the Lord by His mercy and grace gave us this gift to come. It’s such an awesome gift. For instance, the Gentiles didn’t come to God for thousands of years, right? Why did the Gentiles come to God after thousands of years? The Lord chose them. And what did God do when He did choose them?

            Acts 11:18 And when they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then to the Gentiles also hath God granted repentance unto life.

            It’s very important that we understand this; otherwise we’ll be trusting in our own works and see an awful lot of failure. There are several reasons for this. God generally just backs up and waits as long as we are doing our works, and when we give up and put our trust in Him, His power is there.

            Repentance has to be granted by God. Otherwise, people would just go their own way; because we are just what we are. It takes God from the outside to put something in us to cause us to be something that we are normally not. God’s grace, which is unmerited favor, grants repentance. When we find lack in ourselves, or lack in our ability, or lack in our will-power, or lack in anything, we can go to God and He will take care of it for us. David prayed many prayers asking for help, such as in Psalm 119. David counted on God to turn his heart in the direction he wanted it to go.

            Psalm 119:10 With my whole heart have I sought thee: Oh let me not wander from thy commandments.

            Psalm 119:17-18 Deal bountifully with thy servant, that I may live; So will I observe thy word. (18) Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.

            Psalm 119:25-29 My soul cleaveth unto the dust: Quicken thou me according to thy word. (26) I declared my ways, and thou answeredst me: Teach me thy statutes. (27) Make me to understand the way of thy precepts: So shall I meditate on thy wondrous works. (28) My soul melteth for heaviness: Strengthen thou me according unto thy word. (29) Remove from me the way of falsehood; and grant me thy law graciously.

            Psalm 119:31-37 I cleave unto thy testimonies: O Jehovah, put me not to shame. (32) I will run the way of thy commandments, when thou shalt enlarge my heart. (33) Teach me, O Jehovah, the way of thy statutes; And I shall keep it unto the end. (34) Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law; Yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart. (35) Make me to go in the path of thy commandments; For therein do I delight. (36) Incline my heart unto thy testimonies, And not to covetousness. (37) Turn away mine eyes from beholding vanity, and quicken me in thy ways.

            David had faith in the Lord; this included the power and the sovereignty of God to change his mind and his heart and put in him the will he needed.

            We’re told the Lord works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure. If our faith is towards the Lord to change us, instead of us picking up our own bootstraps, as the world says, we’ll have some victory. If not, we are going to fail consistently, because we have faith in ourselves. For example, Peter was sure he would not deny the Lord, but the Lord turned and told him, Before the cock crows you’re going to deny me three times. Peter was self-confident; he wasn’t God-confident. The Lord told him that Satan has desired to sift him as wheat, but the Lord prayed for him that his faith wouldn’t fail him. Peter wasn’t operating in faith, he was operating in self-confidence. You could see David’s faith in the Lord; he had faith in the Lord to draw him, keep him, deliver him from sin, and to put in him a will and desire that belonged there. His faith was in the Lord. David’s faith certainly wasn’t in himself. Peter’s faith was in himself and that’s why he fell; he needed to fall. He needed to be a failure so that he would learn that lesson. Look at 1 Chronicles 29 (this is a prayer of David too). It’s amazing how we usually look at people in the Old Testament as having less light than people in the New Testament, because we know that they lived under types and shadows and really didn’t know the revelation of those types/shadows that we do now. But David, as far as I can see, almost lived a New Testament life with the Lord, because he understood the sovereignty of God and depended upon God for his grace to be who he was. The following is a prayer of David concerning the offering of the temple (when they were taking up offerings to build the temple):

            1 Chronicles 29:10-14 Wherefore David blessed Jehovah before all the assembly; and David said, Blessed be thou, O Jehovah, the God of Israel our father, for ever and ever. (11) Thine, O Jehovah, is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heavens and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O Jehovah, and thou art exalted as head above all. (12) Both riches and honor come of thee, and thou rulest over all; and in thy hand is power and might; and in thy hand it is to make great, and to give strength unto all. (13) Now therefore, our God, we thank thee, and praise thy glorious name. (14) But who am I, and what is my people, that we should be able to offer so willingly after this sort? for all things come of thee, and of thine own have we given thee.

            Jesus said, All power in heaven and earth has been given unto me. If we need power, where do we have to get it? We don’t have any power. Jesus Himself said that He was nothing without the Father; He couldn’t do anything without the Father. This is certainly true about us. Our power comes from God by grace and in most cases it has to come because of our faith. We believe God has delivered us from sin through Jesus Christ; we believe God has delivered us from the curse through Jesus Christ; we believe these things. God gives us back to do what is right. We need to get our strength from the Father. Did you catch the “willingly” part of the 14th verse? He gave them this will. Anyplace we lack we can go to the Father and He will help us; He will give us grace to will His will.

            Jesus said he who the son sets free is free indeed. Do you know how He really sets us free? Do you know what freedom is? Freedom is the ability or lack of restraint from doing anything you want to do. However, when you’re walking in the lusts of your flesh you can’t do anything you want to do; you can’t get away with it and you don’t have the ability. You’re limited by nature; you’re limited by physical circumstances; you’re limited by gravity. You just can’t do anything you want to do. But in this process of the Lord working in you to will and to do of His good pleasure, He’s able to put His will in you. If you really want His will, He can put it in you. When God is done with this process (of putting His will in you), then you get to do what you want to do, because you want to do what He wants to do. And nobody stops God from doing what He wants to do – He works all things after the council of His own will. Daniel said nobody restrains His hand. You’re free because He who the Son sets free is free indeed. So if you really want to be free you have to ask God to put His will in you. And when you read the Word, you’ve got to repent, meaning change your mind. If your desire is according to this Word, you’re going to have your desires, and they will all be good desires.

          • http://www.gmail.com/ David van Heerden

            Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. We should convince people to change their mind by the word of God. Did you received the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? They that trust in a salvation preserved and finally obtained by works of the law of love, trust in themselves, and do not have the spirit at all. After the counsel of his own will God has chosen the foolishness of preaching by his Spirit to save them that believe: For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

          • Roy Hobs

            No sin is going to defile it

            “But we know that God does not hear sinners; but if any one be God-fearing and do his will, him he hears.”
            John 9:31

  • NCOriolesFan

    This ‘church ‘so messed up with the devil I don’t know where to start. BTW, good for the husband to get his gun and go after the ‘pastor’. The husband should never negotiated his 2nd Amendment right to defend himself against the fornicating and adultering ‘pastor.’

    • Emmanuel

      The church is lost and we need to wake up.

    • Amos Moses

      Evil men have crept in unawares ……..

      1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
      1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre’s sake.

  • Emmanuel

    This dude needs to sit in the pews and support the new pastor.

  • Mary Shinn

    I saw this link on another forum, Charisma News and after reading through comments, what bothered me, the professing Faith makes you do a work.

    This is simply to sell “Faith Alone”, hence…both are not true! Think about people, if Faith Alone makes you do a work, where is our free will, our cooperation? God wants our love to be true just like we do. Cooperation is always involved in the doing and the doing is our works. Jesus did NOT mean all works are bad, He meant false works, works for show, pharisee law type of works.

    “Faith Alone” is such a tough heresy to let go of because it is easier and other newer heresies
    have come out of Faith Alone. Here are four Gospel verses to show rotten Martin Luther’s Faith
    Alone is a lie. Do not be defensive, Sola Fide is not personally yours, instead reject it. Here are the four Gospel verses:

    Matthew 7:21

    Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord (faith), shall enter into the
    kingdom of heaven: but he that doth (works) the will of my Father who is in
    heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.

    James 2:24
    Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?

    2 Cor 5:19
    For we must all be manifested before the judgement seat of Christ, that every one may receive the proper things of the body, according as he hath done, whether it be good or evil.

    1 Cor 3:13
    For we must all be manifested before the judgement seat of Christ, that every one may receive the proper things of the body, according as he hath done, whether it be good or evil.

    Our Lord is gong to show everybody, non-Christians too in His “middle coming” in the moments of the divine “awakening” (see Revelation 6:15-17 on “that great day” of Rev 6:17). Its going to take Our Lord again and this time, He is going to help everyone on the earth see, it is Faith and Works with the help of God’s grace that saves you.

    One other, concerns grave sin. Its also called “mortal” sin. See 1 John 5:16, that is > the sin onto death < because if it goes unconfessed to God (after water Baptism), you can lose your soul! Proof of the end times, this dark time, many mortal sins are not even considered sin! Jesus Mercy. Adultery is a motal sin. Why Our Lord kept repeating and the Apostles to
    follow, repent, repent, repent! For Catholics, they must go to Confession (John 20:23).

    God bless you all,

    • Amos Moses

      “Think about people, if Faith Alone makes you do a work, where is our free will, our cooperation?”

      So synergism? …………. there is no free will required for salvation, faith, our cooperation, etc ……. free Grace is free ……. or it is not a free gift of God ….. we are His sheep ……. please show me even one sheep that chose his shepherd ….. there are none … you do not see sheep running over hill and over dale to find its shepherd …….. the Shepherd picks His sheep ….. there is no synergism ……. there is no “cooperation” ……….. He speaks and we follow …….. we are His possession ….

      • Mary Shinn

        Amos,
        No one disputes God’s “free grace” is a part of man’s justification. Its the lie of Martin Luther, his, not God’s…-Faith Alone-…saves you that is the heresy.

        Our Lord’s own words (Matt 7:21), you must DOeth the Will of the Father to enter Heaven not just saying Lord, Lord, the Faith part of Justification. The “doeth” is the works part.

        We are saved by Faith and Works with the help of God’s Grace. All three.

        Jesus meant the false works of the Law the Pharisees came up with that are no good NOT all works. Check these Gospel verses on the requirement of works too, to be saved:

        Matthew 7:21
        2 Corinthians 5:10
        James 2:24
        1 Corinthians 3:13
        and…
        Mathew 25: 34-36
        Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come,
        ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from
        the foundation of the world.
        [35] For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in:
        [36] Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me.

        GBY Amos,

        We are save

        • Amos Moses

          “Its the lie of Martin Luther, his, not God’s…-Faith Alone-…saves you that is the heresy.”

          where does faith come from …………..

          7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
          7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
          7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

          the “he” in Mat7:21 is Christ …….. it is His will that carries out the Fathers will ….. and as it says in 7:22 “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?” …. this is the plea of men saying look at what we have done with our free will to serve ………. and Christ says …. “I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” our works are nothing but filthy rags …… our works add nothing to our salvation …. our works come from our being saved ….. but they add nothing to our salvation ….. we do not do works FOR Christ and our salvation ….. we do them BECAUSE of what Christ has already done for us ………..

          • Mary Shinn

            Christ nor the Apostles ever taught “faith alone” saves you.

            Trying to help people see. Protestants have the hardest time letting go of the heresy “faith alone.” Maybe, cause its easy. Amos, you first replied about God’s grace and now, with the question “where does faith come from…..”

            Grace and faith come from God, that’s not the part of being saved that is at issue here. WORKS is. What we do. One of the verse I shared yesterday Matt 7:21, is the first verse you posted today:

            Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord (FAITH), shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but He that doeth (WORKS) the will of my Father which is in heaven.

            The “doing” is our works. Some preach “Faith” makes you do the work, that is a lie to sell “Faith alone.” Our co-operation is involved
            every time, our free will choice for God wants our love to be true.

            Amos: “our works are nothing but filthy rags …… our works add nothing to our salvation …. our works come from our being saved ….. but they add nothing to our salvation”

            Really, then what are we judged on at our death and the Final Judgement? 1 Cor 3:13 says ~ Every man’ s WORK shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man’ s WORK, of what sort it is.

            “….our works come from our being saved….”

            You write as though we are justified, judged for Heaven or Hell before death. No way. Where is that in the written Word? Since you accept another heresy, Bible Alone, which is only part of God’s revelation. Oh that rotten Martin Luther.

            Why not consider Luther’s Sola Fide is a lie too instead of staying with it? The word -do- is there present and past tense in Scripture. Jesus says “do the things” (John 15:14), “doeth the will of My Father” (Matt 7:21). Paul says “as he hath done” (2 Cor 5:10). Amen, these are our works.

            Again, Jesus states the Pharisee false works of the Law are worthless not all works!

            We are saved by faith and works with the help of God’s grace.

          • Mary Shinn

            Ha, See below, the comment by Amanda Wait. She begins with:

            “Actions have consequences.”

            Right!! Our freely chosen “actions” of our lives have consequences. These are our “works” people. Do not stay cemented in the horrible lie of “Faith Alone” saves you.

          • Amos Moses

            “”Actions have consequences.””

            is not scripture ………. now it may be true …. but it does not answer the question ……… WHERE does faith come from ………..

          • Joe Grace

            Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

            Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

            Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

            Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

            Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

            Paul corrects your error in the letter to the Galatians.

            The Pauline scriptures are not hard to understand, they are hard for most people to believe! The key is right division, dispensational bible study.

            2Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

            All the bible is for us, but not all the bible is to us or about us.

          • Mary Shinn

            Joe, you misinterpret “works” are not required to be saved believing Martin Luther’s “Faith Alone.” Lose this heresy, its not of God. Very simple, Jesus means never >sinful works< or false works for show, that includes the false works of the Law, the Pharisees came up with not ALL works. From the beginning, the Apostles hearing Our Lord, taught:

            We are saved by FAITH and WORKS with the help of God's GRACE.

            See, out of Our Lord's mouth. Also, stated in other Gospel verses:

            Matt 7:21

            Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord (faith), shall enter into the
            kingdom of heaven: but he that doth (works) the will of my Father who is in
            heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.

            Important too, Martin Luther's followers try to sell heretical
            Faith Alone, they preach Faith makes you do a work. No! Our cooperation is
            involved every time. God, just like us wants our love to be true
            brother. He gives us the gift of free will.

            More verses:
            Our Lord's life, look at all His good "works." He commands us, we must do the same or we will not be justified, go to Heaven. My friend, the DOing is our "works":

            Matt 25:34-36
            Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand:
            Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you
            from the foundation of the world.
            [35] For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in:

            [36] Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. GBY.

          • Amos Moses

            Christ did …. Paul did …. saving faith saves ……… but you did not answer the question ……

            WHERE does faith come from ………..

            But lets look at the other scriptures you quoted ….

            5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
            5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
            5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
            5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

            nothing in 1 Cor 5:10 about faith …. but 5:7 does ….. and it does not say anything about free will and faith ………

            James 2:24 …..
            2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
            2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
            2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
            2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
            2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
            2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
            2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
            2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

            this is not in dispute ….. but works comes out of faith and it does not answer the question ….. WHERE does faith come from ………..

            1 Corinthians 3:13
            3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
            3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
            3:13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.
            3:14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
            3:15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
            3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

            Nothing here about any connection between faith and works as part of salvation …. and does not answer the question ……… WHERE does faith come from ………..

          • Mary Shinn

            Amos,
            History shows Martin Luther, the man who hated Judaism and Catholicism came up with “Faith alone.” Why would you follow such a man and his false teaching? Well, Sola Fide is easier. Such a shame.

            I did too answer your question, where does Faith come from….

            Stick to the subject, Faith is NOT disputed as being required for our
            Justification. What is rejected by a big group of Christians is our WORKS are required too.

            In all those verses I posted in my last comment, they are obvious, we are judged on our WORKS. Sad, you don’t think you are accountable for your life and sins? I guess not, you speak as though you are already saved. This is a lie too.

            Amos: “5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ;
            that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to
            that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.nothing in 1 Cor 5:10 about faith …. ”

            Correction people, see 2 Cor 5:10.

            Dah my friend. Obvious, twice 2 Cor 5:10 says, “things done in his body” and “according as he hath done” (original words in Douay-Rheims Bible), We are judged at death on what we have done not just having Faith.

            Lying Martin Luther has done so much damage. You will have to wait
            until Our Lord shows you personally if still here I hope, meaning make it to God’s “awakening” of Revelation 6.

            See you dear Amos and God bless you,

          • Amos Moses

            fine … but the discussion is not about ML …… and if you have a problem with him then that is your business …….. what the discussion is about is scripture and salvation …… and once you are truely saved …. can you become unsaved ….. and if works did not save you the first time ….. why is it you think it somehow keeps you saved ……

          • Mary Shinn

            Thoughtful and great questions.

            Amos: …and ONCE you are truly saved… can you become unsaved…

            The problem is more heresy. Being justified is not a ONE time event. Our justification is life long. Some Christians have misinterpreted Scripture, they profess justification is a one time moment, boom, its done. OSAS. No!

            The Gospel has many verses showing Justification being ongoing, at present so a process and speak of being saved in the future tense. Accepting Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior in the moments of conversion is beautiful, that’s not the >insin<, we must with true contrition, confess our serious sins (called mortal sins) to God. This is part of the process of justification. Why? It fits, again, God cannot be where sins (Rev 21:27) is. God cannot return (His presence, His grace) to your soul until you repent and confess your sins to Him. And the same for Heaven as Rev 21:27 says, nothing unholy enters Heaven.

          • Amos Moses

            “Some Christians have misinterpreted Scripture, they profess justification is a one time moment, boom, its done. OSAS. ”

            i did not say OSAS …. and that is a misstatement of what Christ has done for us …….and yes justification is an ongoing process as is sanctification …… but God saves us only once …. and under the adoption we are under ….. it cannot be revoked ….. and this is what Paul was talking about in Romans 8 and likened Roman adoption law to our adoption in Christ ….. once adopted we are forever His …….. there is no revocation of that adoption …. Paul being an lawyer was very familiar with that process under Roman law and the Holy Spirit led Paul to make that comparison ….. once a person was adopted under Roman law, that person could not be disowned …. the adopter could disown his natural children, but the adoption was permanent ……….

            8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
            8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
            8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
            8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
            8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

          • Mary Shinn

            Amos: “i did not say OSAS …. and that is a misstatement of what Christ has
            done for us …….and yes justification is an ongoing process as is
            sanctification …… but God saves us only once …. and under the
            adoption we are under ….. it cannot be revoked” …..

            You are saying actually, two heresies! OSAS and “what Christ has done for us” meaning Jesus does it all. No my brother! Our Justification, being saved involves God and us.

            Even while, at the same time, you say:

            “and yes justification is an ongoing process as is sanctification.”

            “it (Salvation) cannot be revoked” It sure can be, who do you think is
            in Hell? Salvation is not guaranteed!

            8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall
            tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or
            peril, or sword?

            God shall always love us, its we who choose. Its not anything mentioned in verse 35. It is >unrepentant mortal< sin that will separate us from God. Mortal sin is "the sin onto death" (1 John 5:16), the loss of our soul if we do not confess it before we die.

          • Amos Moses

            “No way! Our Lord and the Apostles over and over call us to repent ”

            sure …. we are to continually have Christ in our minds …… that is not an issue ….. and we will sin ….. that is also not the issue ….. can our adoption into Christ as joint heirs be revoked …. no, it is permanent ……. and we should continue in repentance, and that means turning away from sin and coming into agreement with Christ …. life long ….

          • Mary Shinn

            Amos: “and we will sin ….. that is also not the issue ….. can our adoption
            into Christ as joint heirs be revoked …. no, it is permanent”

            SIN sure is the issue! When you sin mortally (-sin onto death- 1 John 5:16), you lose God’s presence in your soul, your fellowship with Him.

            Amos: ……. “and we should continue in repentance, and that means turning
            away from sin and coming into agreement with Christ …. life long” ….

            What?!!

            No offense, you just got finished saying “sin” is “not the issue.” If sin doesn’t matter why use the word “repentance?” Everyone has to do MORE, something specific, than “turning away from sin” BEFORE they can come “into agreement with Christ!”

            A basic tenet of Christianity, you have to REPENT from the heart, with true contrition CONFESS your sins to God. Catholics must go to Confession ( John 20:23).

          • Amos Moses

            “SIN sure is the issue! ”

            we will sin … even if saved …. that is not the issue …….. “you lose God’s presence in your soul, your fellowship with Him.” ….. no you do not ….. your conclusion can only be made if you accept that God does not know the future ….. that He is not omniscient ……. that He created the time but He does not know how things are going to turn out ………… that His will is not perfect and that he is impotent to perfectly save ………. repentance is as i defined it ….. coming into agreement with God ….. we are sheep ….. sheep are going to wander …. but they hear their Shepherds voice and return ….. and that will never change …….

          • Mary Shinn

            Amos in responding, please leave them be. Quote, paste my posts as they are, in full sentences. You can write, use “….” for grammar.

            Brother, yes its fact, God is *omniscient, all knowing, He* knows the past, present and future.

            God being “omniscient” does not NEGATE the gift of free will. As we do, God desires our love for Him to be true. We choose to cooperate or not, to act in His will, follow His good ways. Our actions, our doing is the “works” part of justification.

            The Calvinist heresy of God chooses a group, predestines them, there is nothing they do in their lives can take away their being saved is a lie. It says in the written Word these two, God desires >all< men to be saved (1 Tim 2:4) and if you do not die in a holy state (free of sin), you cannot enter Heaven (Rev 21:27).

            I share Scripture above because you are "Bible Alone" follower. Remember people, before the written Word came into being, Christians knew Christ's teachings by what the Apostles said, the oral Word (2 Thess 2:14) of God, also called Tradition. God's revelation includes the oral Word, the written Word and a few other means. You miss out believing
            the heresy of Bible Alone.

            Amos: "………. repentance is as i defined it ….. coming into agreement with God ….."

            Question, what are we repenting of? Our SINS.

          • Amos Moses

            “God being “omniscient” does not NEGATE the gift of free will.”

            if we are saved …. with a grace that saves perfectly ….. then the only will we have is to follow Christ ….. now we may wander ….. but we will always hear His voice as our Shepherd ….. it is permanent ….. it is indwelt …. it will never leave …… and the unsaved have no will to choose the things of God ……….. dead men have no will to choose anything ….. God controls salvation …. NOT us ….

            “God desires >all< men to be saved (1 Tim 2:4)"

            it does say that …. what it does not say …. is that all men WILL be saved ….. and in fact it says we ….. as His sheep ……. are PREDESTINED to be saved ……… and it is not revolkable ……. "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world" (before time was time we were chosen) …… "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself" …… "Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:" …… "being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will" (HIS will, NOT our will) ………….

            Ephesians
            1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
            1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
            1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
            1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
            1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
            1:8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
            1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
            1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
            1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
            1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
            1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
            1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
            1:15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
            1:16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
            1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
            1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
            1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
            1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
            1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
            1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
            1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

            it also says …. He will mercy whom He will mercy …. and harden whom He will harden …..

            Romans
            9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
            9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
            9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
            9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
            9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
            9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
            9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
            9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

            if God is meant to save all ….. then why not the Egyptians ….. who ended up under the Red Sea ….. or the Amorites …. or others …..

            God can save everyone ….. and there is no glory in that for God ….. or God can save none …. and there is no glory in that for God …… or god can save those HE desires to be saved …. and in that there is Glory ……….

          • Mary Shinn

            Amos: ….. now we may wander ….. but we will always hear His voice as our Shepherd ….. it is permanent ….. it is indwelt ….

            Amos, you keep saying “we may wander” but never use the word SIN. Is “wander” your term for sin? If not, this is the same old OSAS heresy
            and you follow with the false Calvinist Predestination.

            We lose God’s presence, His grace (after water Baptism), His fellowship, when we commit grave (1 John 5:16) sin. God greatest attribute is His mercy. We all must repent from heart and confess our sins to God (1 John 1:9). Only then, can He return, indwell us. Basic tenet of Christianity.

            1 John 1:9-10
            If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all iniquity.
            [10] If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

            Its a no go after fourteen or fifteen posts. Take care, pray brother. Remember, Our Lord is coming “soon” to show you, me, all souls, what I’ve been trying to share. Be open to Roman Catholicism.

            God bless you my dear brother in Christ,

          • Amos Moses

            “Romans 2:13-16:
            For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified… on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Jesus Christ.”

            Please …. quote it all …. or it loses its meaning ….

            2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified……. Note: there are no doers of the law
            2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
            2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
            2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

            the hearers of the law and the doers of the law are not saved …… we are not saved by the law ……….. and yes God does judge us by Christ …… but if we are in Christ then the Father sees not us and our sins …. But Christ who stands between Father and us as our covering for sin …. our sins were imputed to Christ and His righteousness was imputed to us …. so Father sees us as having faith in Christ and that faith is counted as righteousness ….

          • Mary Shinn

            Sorry, I should of typed Romans 2:13 and not 2:13-16. Verse 13 proves “works” are needed to be justified! It says >>>

            “but the DOERS (works) of the law who will be justified”… Right!

            To follow, verse 14 and 15, where do you get “the Father sees not us and our sins?” Or, …”our sins were imputed to Christ and His righteousness was imputed to us?!”

            Neither of those verses say that. Paul is talking about the Gentiles
            who have become Christian keeping the laws of God “written in their hearts” as we should in the New Covenant. Those Gentiles did not come from the Mosiac Law as the Jews did.

            Two other sentences actually tells me now where you are coming from.

            Amos: …… “but if we are in Christ then the Father sees not us and our sins …. But Christ who stands between (penal substitution heresy) the Father sees not us and our sins”…

            Similar, reminds me of a famous Martin Luther quote about our sins are covered, adorned instead:

            “I said before that our righteousness IS DUNG in the sight of God. Now if God chooses to adorn dung, he can do so.” (Luther’s Works, Vol. 34, page 184).

            There’s Martin Luther saying we are completely depraved. NO! God
            made us good and capable of sin, both. “Completely depraved” brings more lies (heresies).

            Our Lord never is a SUBSTITUTE in the Father’s eyes for our sins or does Our Lord IMPUTE His perfect righteousness and sacrifice onto us, reason some Christians preach there is no need to repent, your sins are covered by Christ.

            The truth, constantly repeated in Scripture. Every time we commit serious sin, we must repent, confess it to God.

            Amos, you gotta reject these two heresies, “imputed righteousness”
            and “penal substitution.” Blessings,

          • Amos Moses

            “God cannot be where sins (Rev 21:27) is. God cannot return (His presence, His grace) to your soul until you repent and confess your sins to Him.”

            Right ….. BUT Christ can and if we are in Christ ….. then His righteousness is imputed to us …. and he covers our sins ….. and not just once ….. but all our sins …. yes we need to be in continual prayer, keeping Christ in our minds ….. and repentance is accomplished by that …… being in continual prayer, keeping Christ in our minds ……

          • Mary Shinn

            “Imputed righteousness” and “Penal substitution” are heresy. They’re
            no where in Scripture. Some Christians with no God given authority,
            misinterpret one verse, “became sin” to try to prove “imputed righteousness.” “Became sin” is reference to God coming down, becoming INCARNATE to redeem mankind. Jesus does not take on our sins, we’re covered, saved.

            “Imputed righteousness” and “Penal substitution” come out of another lie of Luther, who said man is “completely depraved.” Hence, it has to be Jesus’, His perfect righteousness and perfect sacrifice on Calvary that is IMPUTED to you, a miserable sinner. Wrongo!

            Mankind, we have a fallen nature AND we are capable of good.

          • Amos Moses

            BTW, salvation and justification and sanctification are not all the samething …….. the terms are not interchangeable ……..

          • Mary Shinn

            True Amos, no disagreement, terms are not interchangeable.

            Redemption (redeemed) does not mean justification (justified).
            Only God could bring about the redemption of mankind. Our
            Lord redeemed mankind. He opened Heaven. We cooperate
            with God’s grace, believing in Him and following His ways to gain
            Heaven.

            The craziness of believing Jesus does it >all< is just flat out heresy.
            A couple of new heresies sell this, it is not true.

          • Amos Moses

            Dah my friend. Obvious, twice 2 Cor 5:10 says, “things done in his body” and “according as he hath done” (original words in Douay-Rheims Bible), We are judged at death on what we have done not just having Faith.

            my mistyping of 2 Cor 5 ….. excuse me ….. but again …… that we will all be judged for our works has nothing to do with salvation …… and this is describing the saved and the unsaved …… our sins are covered by Christ ….. no works are required to blot out sin after that …. and we do works because we have that grace ……… we do not do works for Christ ….. He does not need them to save us ….. we do good works for our neighbor ….. they need it …..

          • Amos Moses

            “History shows Martin Luther, the man who hated Judaism and Catholicism”

            btw …. just curious ….. pope francis honoring ML about 6 months ago in Sweden …… thoughts ……………

          • Amos Moses

            “Grace and faith come from God, that’s not the part of being saved that is at issue here. WORKS is. ”

            very good ….. so if both come from God ….. then nothing else is needed …… our works are not a requirement for salvation ….. both are a gift ….. a free gift …….. so the question now is ….. can your will be greater than Christ …… can you jump out of salvation …… can you over ride Christ and “jump” out of His hand ………

          • Amos Moses

            btw ….. if works are not a requirement BEFORE being saved ….. why do you think it is a requirement AFTER you were saved ….. our works still hold the exact same value to God before and after salvation …. ZERO ….. actually less than zero …… works do not play any part in faith or salvation ….. we do works to show our gratitude for Gods grace to save us when we did not deserve to be saved ………

    • Joe Grace

      Only saved individuals stand before the judgement seat of Christ. Lost people are judged at the great white throne. When you quote verses from the book James don’t forget to include who he is addressing;

      James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

      ..”the twelve tribes…” James is addressing Jewish believers, not the Church the body of Christ.

  • http://www.gmail.com/ David van Heerden

    It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his [neighbour]’s wife. And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

  • Ray Nix

    Wow, what a stupid bunch of people who do not insist this man resigns. Unbelievable stuff. The man says he won’t resign and that God wants him to stay on, he is hearing from the wrong God. His God must be Lucifer. Just think, he would still be doing it if he didn’t get caught. He had his chance now he needs to sit in the pew and let someone preach to him. I can only imagine he just preached feel good sermons or sermons on prosperity, instead of preaching the narrow and strait path the his Savior preached. Jesus said it is a narrow and strait way and few find it. It is shocking how people would want this man to continue as a leader, shows you just how little they know about a Holy God and all of His Word.

    • Amos Moses

      “Wow, what a stupid bunch of people who do not insist this man resigns.”

      1:4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.
      1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:
      1:6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.

      1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
      1:8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
      1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
      1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
      1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre’s sake.

      1:12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
      1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
      1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

      Disqualified ……………..

    • Amos Moses

      “Wow, what a stupid bunch of people who do not insist this man resigns.”

      3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
      3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
      3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
      3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
      3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
      3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
      3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
      3:9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
      3:10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
      3:11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
      3:12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
      3:13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
      3:14 These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly:
      3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

      He has disqualified himself ………

    • Amos Moses

      “Wow, what a stupid bunch of people who do not insist this man resigns.”

      1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
      1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
      1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
      1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
      1:8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

      Yeah …. WOW …. that any person of the Body of Christ thinks this man is still qualified …..

    • Amos Moses

      “Wow, what a stupid bunch of people who do not insist this man resigns.”

      5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
      5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
      5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
      5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

      and calling your brother Raca ….. where does that put you ……….. calling your fellows “stupid” ………….

      G3474
      μωρός
      mōros
      mo-ros’
      Probably form the base of G3466; dull or stupid (as if shut up), that is, heedless, (morally) blockhead, (apparently) absurd: – fool (-ish, X -ishness).

      G4469
      ῥακά
      rhaka
      rhak-ah’
      Of Chaldee origin (compare [H7386]); O empty one, that is, thou worthless (as a term of utter vilification): – Raca.

  • Amos Moses

    Amazing: If You Lay All 20 Million Copies Of ‘The Shack’ End-To-End Around The Equator, It’s Still Heresy
    February 8, 2017

  • Lukes_NaNa

    The problem began when the pastor went to meet his parishioner privately in her home. Meetings not involving church matters should be held in a public venue with a chaperone.

    • FHRITP

      The problem began when the parishioner chose not to let go of her belief in deities.

  • FHRITP

    People don’t become clergy because they have better moral compasses than the rest of us. Quite the contrary. People become clergy BECAUSE they have woefully flawed moral compasses and are desperate to prove otherwise.

  • https://disqus.com/home/channel/escapefromegypt/ Escape from Egypt

    This is another fruit of Hypergrace Theology, which holds that one cannot lose their salvation, regardless of what they do, for they never “earned” their salvation by doing any works, in the first place.