Republican Congressmen Urge Trump to Issue Executive Order Protecting Religious Liberty

WASHINGTON — Over 50 members of the U.S. House of Representatives have signed a letter urging President Trump to issue an executive order protecting the religious liberty rights of Americans nationwide.

“We write to express our encouragement and support for prompt executive action ensuring religious liberty protections for all Americans and look forward to working with you on complementary legislation,” the letter, signed by 51 Congressmen and women, reads.

As previously reported, in late January, the outlet The Nation claimed that it had obtained a copy of a draft executive order that allegedly protects faith-based entities “when providing social services, education, or healthcare; earning a living, seeking a job, or employing others; receiving government grants or contracts; or otherwise participating in the marketplace, the public square, or interfacing with federal, state or local governments.”

It also was stated to protect the tax-exempt status of any group that “believes, speaks, or acts (or declines to act) in accordance with the belief that marriage is or should be recognized as the union of one man and one woman, sexual relations are properly reserved for such a marriage, male and female and their equivalents refer to an individual’s immutable biological sex as objectively determined by anatomy, physiology, or genetics at or before birth, and that human life begins at conception and merits protection at all stages of life.”

The White House has not confirmed or denied the existence of the order.

On April 5, House members including Mark Meadows, R-NC; Barry Loudermilk, R-GA; Steve King, R-IA; Louie Gohmert, R-TX; Don Bacon, R-NE; Darrell Issa, R-CA; Doug Lamborn, R-CO; Trent Franks; R-AZ; Thomas Massie, R-KY, and Glenn Grothman, R-WI, signed a letter calling on Trump to sign the purported order. They outlined why they believe such executive protections are imperative.

“The draft executive order would undo the unworkable Health and Human Services (HHS) contraception mandate and also ensure that Americans are not coerced to buy abortion coverage under Obamacare exchange plans,” the correspondence reads.

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“Executive and legislative action is also needed to protect religious liberty in light of the Supreme Court’s recent redefinition of marriage,” it continues. “During oral arguments in Obergefell v. Hodges, then Solicitor General Donald Verrilli stated that the nonprofit status of religious colleges could be jeopardized should they live out their traditional beliefs on marriage.”

The Congressmen also express support for the Russell Amendment and the Free Speech Fairness Act, the latter of which would protect churches from IRS investigation if they incidentally refer to political candidates from the pulpit.

“Because religious liberty is of such importance and under such threat, we believe that the draft executive order should be signed without delay and that all the protections discussed in this letter should be enshrined permanently in our laws,” their letter states.

However, the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has threatened to file suit should Trump sign such an order. It specifically cites its opposition to any language that it believes would allow discrimination against homosexuals.

“For President Trump to stand any chance at following through on his campaign promise to be a ‘real friend’ to the LGBT community, he cannot follow fringe, anti-LGBT extremists down this ill-advised path of licensing discrimination under the guise of religious liberty,” Legislative Representative Ian Thompson wrote in a blog post on Tuesday.

“Freedom of religion is one of our most fundamental national values—and something the ACLU fights for every day. But it does not give anyone the right to impose their beliefs on others, to harm others, or to discriminate,” he said.

As previously reported, days after taking office, the Trump administration advised that it would keep intact Obama’s order, #13672, which amended a 1969 order by then-President Richard Nixon prohibiting federal contractors from discriminating based on “race, color, religion, sex, national origin, handicap and age,” as well as a 1998 order from then-President Bill Clinton adding “sexual orientation” to the list.

Obama added “gender identity” to Clinton’s “sexual orientation” language.

“President Trump continues to be respectful and supportive of LGBTQ rights, just as he was throughout the election,” the White House said in a statement. “The president is proud to have been the first ever GOP nominee to mention the LGBTQ community in his nomination acceptance speech, pledging then to protect the community from violence and oppression.”

“The executive order signed in 2014, which protects employees from anti-LGBTQ workplace discrimination while working for federal contractors, will remain intact at the direction of President Donald J. Trump,” it outlined.


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  • Basic

    It never ceases to amaze me that Christians can’t live and let live – they have to force their religion on everybody else.

    I assume you’re also for allowing Muslims to kill apostates as part of their “religious freedom” too? Or is it only your own religious values that should be imposed on others?

    Maybe one of these days, you’ll start respecting other people’s right to live without being impacted by your beliefs.

    Slim chance, going on evidence to date.

    • Sharon_at_home

      This isn’t asking for others to convert to their religion – it’s asking for respect to be given to Christians just like everyone else asks for.

      The majority of Christians do not push their religion on others.

      I’m sorry I have no idea if the order will be including other religions as it doesn’t say either way in the article.

      I look at you asking for respect but I find most people don’t respect our right to have our beliefs. Everyone seems to think like you do; like we are all the same.

      As a matter of fact, a large majority of Christians do not even try to spread the Gospel like we should because of people like you who don’t respect our rights.

      So you don’t want us to have the right to our religious beliefs, because you are basing all Christians the way they are in the media?

      I don’t understand why you come to a Christian comment board if you aren’t Christian. Usually non-believers just come to antagonize, so should I assume that you are the same as everyone else?

      Thinking all people of a group as large as the Christians in the USA are all the same is a little naive, don’t you think?

      • Jenny Ondioline

        The draft order seeks to create wholesale exemptions for people and
        organizations who claim religious or moral objections to same-sex
        marriage, premarital sex, abortion, and trans identity, and it seeks to
        curtail women’s access to contraception and abortion through the
        Affordable Care Act.

        That isn’t freedom. That is bullying.

        • Sharon_at_home

          I was answering the questions that Basic was asking – he did not refer to that specifically.

      • Basic

        “People like you who don’t respect our rights”…

        Let’s start there. It’s your right to believe as you see fit. It’s not your right to impose your beliefs on someone else.

        If you don’t want to marry a someone of the same sex or have an abortion because they’re against your religion, nobody is forcing you to do either. If you choose to pray / spend your time at church / etc nobody will stop you.

        That’s your religious freedom.

        You want to take it a step further “My religion says everyone should do X so you all have to do X even though it’s not your belief”.

        If I choose to have an abortion (anatomically challenging), why should Christian have any say about whether I can or not?

        If you’re going to say “This religion gets to push its morll principles and dogma on everyone” then you either have to say the same for all religions or admit hypocrisy.

        So tell me, are you a proponent of sharia law? How about arranged (read: forced) marriages?

        And I’m willing to bet, a lot of Muslims are making the argument “We don’t do Y like we should because of people like you who don’t respect our rights.”

        So tell me again how “people like me” are infringing on _your_ rights? Because I have a very long list of ways that religious believers have attempted to infringe on my rights.

        • Sharon_at_home

          No what I’m saying is that when you consider the number of Christians in the USA, there are actually a low number who go out and actively protest things like a LGBT event or the Government buildings – the type of place that aggressive Christians would be. I’m not sure about the list you mentioned. I looked at my post and didn’t see it in this post.
          The one list I did request was about how something happened when I’ve been told I couldn’t have had it happen to me, so it’s not proof of God. I asked for a list of reasonable explanations as to why I did not get rained on for about a year and a half. You can find my testimony about that in one of my posts. Sorry I’m not sure which one.
          I agree that a group of people should never be put into a box and said that they are all the same. It’s impossible. They might agree on some things, but it’s not likely they will agree about everything.
          “If you’re going to say “This religion gets to push its moral principles
          on everyone” then you either have to say the same for all religions or
          admit hypocrisy.”
          I don’t believe any faith has the right to push it’s anything on everyone.
          I don’t think Jesus would want us to do that because he wouldn’t and I try to walk as Jesus did.
          I do talk to others about other things but my faith is important to me. I don’t stay on Christian sites alone by any means. This is the only page that has comments that I’ve been interested in posting in.
          I have 3 boys and believe me I do get to discuss with them about the topics of society, but I’m not big on arguing. I’d rather agree to disagree if it gets too heated. But thank you for the advice. I do appreciate it.

          • Basic

            First up, let me say that while I may sound heated, it’s because I’m passionate about the topic and not intended as a personal attack. If it was received that way, I apologise.

            If you have no issue with gay people getting married (outside of Christianity) then I applaud your position but… Do you also support treating people who lobby government, pay politicians and make political broadcasts as tax-exempt entities because they say their religion demands it?

            Because that’s what this legislation does.

            Personally, I think using religion as a cover for bigotry is disgraceful, but I suppose that depends on your perspective on religion.

          • Sharon_at_home

            No I don’t agree with it necessarily but I know as far as my church, we’ve got less than 100 parishioners and some are not even able to pay tithes and often can’t manage even an offering. I think it should be worked out by size and the larger the church the less tax maybe. If there are a lot of people, they are more likely to be able to survive if there was a change to the tax situation. Small ones will likely perish.

            The thing is, churches are very important to the faithful. If you take it all away the churches will end up closing and either they will go without or they will have to go a long way to get to a church. A lot of Christians are older and IMO they need their religion to help them through to the end. I know you could say that they don’t need religion, but when you are a Christian you do need it. And it brings a lot more peace to people when they are dying.
            Bigotry. Yes I can’t disagree with you on that point because it’s true.
            I found the perfect way to say what I believe in another post.
            I don’t believe that Jesus wants us to punish people for their sins, but to help them overcome them. Mostly to help them. He wouldn’t have punished any of them for their sins. Today’s Christians are not only judging these people but are punishing them. The thing is, punishment is God’s responsibility, not ours.
            Simply said: Christians are supposed to help others and try to lead them to Jesus. We are supposed to discern (judge) whether or not a person is sinning, and if they are we are to try to help them. If they do not want the help, Jesus said to leave them in their sin. That doesn’t mean being cruel and demeaning, it means leave them alone.
            I honestly don’t see the Lord reflected in these crowds faces. IMO they are not doing God’s work the way Jesus told us to.
            I guess that other religions don’t necessarily believe in it the same way I do, but that is what I have learned from my Pastor.

          • Basic

            I can see that you’ve taken your position for well-considered and (as far as I’m any judge) altruistic reasons. People like you are rather rate on the internet, so please do stick around.

            [I should also say (in case you didn’t see the news) the text of the document changed significantly from the draft being discussed above and the point we’re debating was removed. I’ve only skimmed it, but it now seems to relate to endorsing politicians from the pulpit.]

            To finish our discussion…

            I appreciate your concerns, and to be frank you’ve given me a moment of pause. Let me explain…

            I vehemently oppose interference from [any] religion in my affairs, or those of society in general. Fundamentalism precludes critical thought and often comes with a “chosen people” ideology. All of which I consider harmful to society.

            The overwhelming majority of the time, those extremist ideas come from high profile right-wing politicians claiming Christian values. The endless stream of illogical, harmful legislation has given me a dim opinion of the religion as a whole.

            I’m not sure I’d fully stopped to consider moderates being caught in the crossfire, so thank you for that. Another perspective is always valuable and for what it’s worth, you have my apologies.

            Where things get awkward is that if people don’t oppose much of the religiously motivated legislation, we end up with Creationism being taught as science and children forced to pray.

            I have no idea how to find the middle ground on this issue. I don’t want anyone to be punished / worse off for their beliefs, I just don’t want to be subject to those beliefs myself.

            To me, it seems like wealth is the distorting factor here. Religion is an easy rallying cry for politicians and larger churches are able to sway politicians financially. The two combine to create a toxic mix.

          • Sharon_at_home

            I agree it’s hard to find the middle ground in this kind of thing.
            My faith is very important to me, and I find peace in it. Learning my Faith is obviously an ongoing learning experience for me.
            I’ve always been able to see both sides of a situation. It’s a Gift that I feel is from God because it has always been used to help people with confusion in their lives.
            I agree that wealth is likely a focus for this kind of document. It seems to be involved in everything. It’s a sad thing to look at churches and see greed so easily seen.
            I can’t go against the religious freedom, but I don’t agree with discrimination. I just feel Christians should be able to stand up for their faith, and not be sued for it. If it’s a case of discrimination, yes that’s wrong, and should be treated as such.
            It’s bothering me that these Christians, in view of the whole world, make waves about so many things, which makes people think we’re all mean people, and LGBT people are afraid of us.
            I don’t think Christians need to be as aggressive about their faiths, nor do I feel that making anyone feel like less of person because of something said by a Christian – well lets just say the way I view Jesus isn’t the same way they do as far as I can tell.
            It’s nice to be able to discuss things without getting stressed about them and I do appreciate and accept your apology. I’d love to help you with understanding Christians, but I think I’m in the minority considering my views. You can be sure I won’t tell you anything that I don’t believe, and if it’s my opinion I always put IMO. Have a Great Night/Day. 😀

          • Basic

            Thanks, you too. I’ve enjoyed the discussion and wish you all the best.

          • Sharon_at_home

            I’m always willing to discuss things as long as neither person gets aggressive and can come to some reasonable conclusions rather than argue about them. I’m not much for arguing myself.
            Any time you’d like to discuss anything tag me. And I will tag you if I’m in need too. You know if the posts don’t help me out first. 😀
            I wish you all the best too.

    • Jason Todd

      It never ceases to amaze me that Christians can’t live and let live – they have to force their religion on everybody else.

      What? What are you talking about?

      • Basic

        Really? Refusing to issue “that” marriage license is a specific instance but more broadly… Opposing gay marriage, women’s rights, teaching of science in school, abortion, etc, etc, etc…

        Nobody is telling Christians they have to have abortions or marry people of the same sex, yet for some reason, Christians seem to feel entitled to have a say in how everybody else lives their lives.

  • Trilemma

    Any executive order the President may issue cannot trump the Constitution.

    • Amos Moses

      then you should go and read some of them …… and find out how wrong that assumption is ……….

      According to this Executive Order the President, or those he designates, can conscript “persons of outstanding experience and ability without compensation,” in “peacetime and times of national emergency.” In a nutshell, that means that Barack Obama, and those he designates, can seize any resource, property, or person at any time for any reason, including forcing that person with labor without being paid.

      There is only ONE word for forced, “uncompensated employment.” That word is slavery.

      • Bob Johnson

        I do not believe that Obama as an ex-president has that power, or are you just cut and pasting?

        • Amos Moses

          EO survive the presidents leaving office ……….

      • Trilemma

        Please explain how this religious freedom executive order will allow Barack Obama to implement slavery.

        • Amos Moses

          this is Executive Order 13603, signed by Obama while he was in office …… you said “Any executive order the President may issue cannot trump the Constitution.” ……… but it has never made any difference ….

          • Trilemma

            EO 13603 does not trump the Constitution. It is the latest of a number of similar EO’s that started with EO 10182 signed by Harry S. Truman on November 21, 1950.

          • Amos Moses

            and so it is still there ….. and ready to be implemented ……… it stands ….. other EOs that have been implemented and stand to this day …………

            1933
            Roosevelt
            Franklin Roosevelt’s orders forbidding the hoarding of gold during the Depression and, during World War II, giving the military authority to confine Japanese and German Americans to guarded camps.

            1948
            Truman
            Truman’s 1948 order racially integrating the armed forces, and his 1952 order putting all steel mills under federal control.

            1957
            Eisenhower
            Eisenhower’s order desegregating public schools.

            1961
            Kennedy
            John F. Kennedy’s order requiring government contractors to “take affirmative action” to hire and treat employees without regard to “race, creed, color, or national origin.”

            1996
            Clinton
            Clinton’s multiple orders allowing preferential treatment in federal contracting based on race or ethnicity in 2000, and authorizing the government to take private land under the Antiquities Act of 1906 (including his 1996 designation of 1.7 million acres in Utah as a national monument).

            2001
            George W. Bush
            George W. Bush’s 2001 order restricting public access to the papers of former presidents, and his 2008 order directing federal agencies to ignore future budget earmarks that lawmakers don’t vote on and include in legislation that passes.

            FYI ….. none of them were ever struck down due to “constitutional concerns” …… and CLEARLY many of them are UNconstitutional ………….

          • Trilemma

            None of them were struck down for constitutional concerns because they are not unconstitutional.

          • Amos Moses

            so interment of the Japanese american citizen by EO was “legal” and not unconstitutional ………… ummmmmm ……….. WOW ………………

          • Trilemma

            The country was at war with Japan and Germany. Though morally questionable, it was still legal and Constitutional.

          • Amos Moses

            “Though morally questionable, it was still legal and Constitutional.”

            so denial of DUE PROCESS is “constitutional” ……… war or not …….. WOW …. WOW ….. WOW …… mass arrest is “constitutional” ……. WOW ……

          • Amos Moses

            the movie “Idiocracy” is now a documentary ………..

          • Trilemma

            Are you referring to the movie that came out back in 2006?

          • Trilemma

            Article 1, Section 9 of the US Constitution states, “The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.” This was the basis for EO 9066 which ordered Japanese Americans into internment camps during World War II regardless of citizenship. The constitutionality of this was challenged in Korematsu v. United States. In a 6–3 decision, the Court sided with the government.

          • Amos Moses

            mass arrest is not Habeus Corpus and denial of due process of law is not either …. they were deprived of all property without due process ………..

      • Ambulance Chaser

        Which executive orders would those be?

  • Malleus

    If the Hildebeest had won, religious liberty would’ve gone down the tubes. That woman hates orthodox Christianity with a passion. Trump is a flawed man, but he’s no ideologue like she is.

    • Jenny Ondioline

      She wouldn’t have allowed wholesale hatred towards LGBT people and women. That doesn’t sound hateful to me. It sounds like the opposite of hateful.

      • Malleus

        Gays and lesbians prey on children. If you behaved ethically, you would not be hated. Teaching people to accept those who prey on children is a bad thing. This is about the normalization of pedophilia, so stop playing innocent. We’re onto you.

        • Jason Todd

          Worse than that. The LGBTQW community have been continuously moving the goalposts, allowing for such things as public nudity and sex. No, their real, ultimate goal is a moral and sexual anarchy.

          We, the American people, are in a position to stop it. Will we make a stand, or sit on the sidelines and watch as they move to their next step, the rationalization and normalization of the sexual abuse of children.

          I promise you that is the next thing on their list.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            They have no goal except to fall in love like everyone else and to be left unmolested by religious prigs. There is no “goal” apart from trying to find happiness in this lifetime.

          • Sharon_at_home

            Can you not understand that all Christians do not do anything to anyone? This is a small majority who make a big deal out of gays and trans people.
            You should not make slurs about the millions of Christians that have done NOTHING to you or anyone else.
            Try showing the world that gays and trans. people aren’t anything but what you call normal and maybe the world would be more open to them, but demanding that everyone accept you is ridiculous. there are lots of things people don’t agree with others about but they don’t yell and scream and DEMAND things.
            Treat people the way you want to be treated. So you want us to treat you like you do us? You wouldn’t like that either.
            I don’t stand up for the Politics in this world, but I will stand up for my religious beliefs not matter what people are trying to put us down about. We have the right to believe in our faith. But every time Gays come on this board you seem to think you have all the rights and we have none.
            Don’t come on the board if you can’t be less nasty about how you post. There is no need for name calling from either side, but considering you just come here to antagonize, I guess that is not an issue either.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            You’re obviously new here.

          • Chris

            “Can you not understand that all Christians do not do anything to anyone?”

            I agree completely. I don’t think anyone should make sweeping statements about any group.

          • William of Glynn

            Lies and hate speech. The ultimate goal of the fringe element of the fundamentalist Christian Dominionist movement is to criminalize homosexuality and bring about Russian-style terrorism and abuses of the gay community.

          • Jason Todd

            The only liar around here is you. But then again, should we expect anything less from a sexual deviant?

          • mustangsallyann

            What a bunch of nonsense. If that were the case, why would we have let it go so far in the first place. Truth be told, Christians have tried to be patient and compassionate, hoping the LBGT community would find their place and acceptance. But the more the concessions, the more they’ve targeted our religious rights and have the need to force their preferences down our throats. Do they want to know the specifics of a straight couple’s private moments, absolutely not and I don’t blame them, I don’t want to watch either. Well that goes both ways. Respect is mutual and not just given to one small part of the population. Now that we’ve said enough, they just can’t handle that we’ll no longer bend over while our rights continue to be destroyed.

          • William of Glynn

            “Do they want to know the specifics of a straight couple’s private moments …”

            What specifics of gay couples’ private moments are you forced to endure?

          • mustangsallyann

            How about the disgusting display that went on in front of Pence’s home after the election. They proudly posed for pics and you can find them as easily as everyone else that saw it. That’s just one of many more examples.

          • William of Glynn

            I didn’t see it and am not familiar with it. Was it just a protest or did it involve some form of nudity or something as equally offensive?

          • mustangsallyann

            Indeed it was and yes it did. Google it and you can watch it all yourself.

          • Johndoe

            Heterosexuals have a much higher rate of sexual abuse of children mr wizard. I promise you!

        • Jenny Ondioline

          Gays and lesbians have no sexual interest in children, it’s pedophiles you are thinking of. Stop making them out to be the same thing, for one thing it’s dishonest, and for another you reveal yourself to be nothing resembling a Christian by saying it.

          • Malleus

            You are a liar, as usual.

            Gay couples who preyed on their own adopted children. You people have no morals at all.

            Run these names on Google. You won’t because you don’t want to acknowledge the truth.

            Frank Lombard Duke adopted son sex

            George Harasz Douglas Wirth adopted sons

            Peter Truong Mark Newton adopted son

            Ian Wathey Craig Faunch abuse children

            Carl Herold Charles Dunnavant son sex

            Cesar Gonzales-Mugaburu foster boys

            David Cannon John Scarfe son sex

            Christian Jessica Deanda Eraca Dawn Craig torture

            Rachel Stevens Kayla Jones son abuse

            Pauline Moreno Debra Lobel son

            Aric Babbitt Matthew Deyo

            Robert Owen Justin Jarvis Indiana 2017

          • Jenny Ondioline

            Even if that list was true (and I’m not saying it is – most of it is highly suspect), congratulations on identifying twelve people who are homosexual pedophiles. How about being honest now and giving us a list of the disproportionately huge list of heterosexual pedophiles?

          • Malleus

            You said gays are NOT pedophiles. I’m giving you the names of gays who ARE pedophiles.

            You scared to Google those names – chicken?

            You people are pathological liars.

            Gays DO prey on boys. You are a liar.

          • Jason Todd

            NAMBLA is all the proof you need. And the fact they refuse to acknowledge their existence or distance themselves from the still active organization validates it.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            NAMBLA is a joke. If it even exists anymore, it has the support of exactly nobody. Certainly not the LGBT community.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            Your statement is so dishonest I can’t believe it.

            Gays are NOT pedophiles. That’s true. Look up the definitions, they are completely different.

            What you’re doing is trying to find situations where a person can be both. And yeah, you’ll likely find a few, statistically speaking. Just like you’ll find a few of them wear blue socks. But you’ll find FAR, FAR more who are straight.

            If a person is gay it does not mean they are attracted to boys. Once again, you are confusing your terminology – and doing so on purpose.

          • Malleus

            OK, the Big Liar says “Gays are NOT pedophiles.”

            Proof that she is lying: Exhibit A. I’ll keep posting these, and she/ he will continue to post the lie “Gays are NOT pedophiles.”

            CBS News, Dec 28, 2016:

            SOUTH ST. PAUL, Minn. — Police documents allege a Minnesota elementary school teacher and his husband had sexual contact with eight underage boys over several years.
            South St. Paul police released the documents this week following a four-month investigation into teacher Aric Babbitt and his husband, Matthew Deyo. The couple was found dead in August in an apparent murder-suicide in Washington state.
            The deaths came shortly after a 16-year-old boy and his parents went to South St. Paul police to report an ongoing sexual relationship between the teen and the men.
            The 134-page investigative file obtained by the St. Paul Pioneer Press shows the case went beyond the teen’s allegations. According to the documents, seven other boys came forward after the 16-year-old’s allegations became public.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            How about if I post ten stories of a heterosexual pedophile story for every one you post of a gay one? Statistically I would still be able to bury your dishonesty and do so easily.

            But because you are still not getting, it, here is some wisdom right from the dictionary for you:

            Homosexual – a person who is sexually attracted to people of their own sex.
            Pedophile – a person who is sexually attracted to children.

            Notice that it says nothing in the definition that if you are one you MUST be the other. That’s your dishonesty in action.

          • Malleus

            Moving right along,
            Exhibit B in response to the lie “Gays are NOT pedophiles.”

            Evansville Courier & Press, Feb 16, 2017

            A man active in local politics and his husband face charges relating to an alleged sexual relationship with a teen boy.
            Justin “Alex” Jarvis, 43, and his husband Robert Owen, 38, were both arrested earlier this week after an investigation that the two men engaged in a relationship with a 16-year-old boy starting last year. The men are Newburgh residents. Jarvis is a former political director of the Vanderburgh County Democratic Party.
            According to a probable cause affidavit, the relationship was reported to the Warrick County Sheriff’s Office in October 2016 by the boy’s parent. Those documents indicate that investigators believe the relationship started while the boy was still 15.
            The boy reportedly told police that he met Jarvis through a dating app.. Though the boy said he lied about his age at first, he told police he did disclose his real age to Jarvis.
            In the case, Jarvis faces two counts of sexual misconduct with a minor, three counts of child exploitation and one count each of possession of child pornography and dissemination of matter harmful to minors, as well as three drug-related charges. When police executed a search warrant at the couple’s Newburgh home in October, investigators located suspected marijuana, a plastic baggie with suspected meth residue on it and glass pipe and another smoking device, according to the affidavit filed in the case. In addition, the boy reportedly told investigators that Jarvis had provided him with both marijuana and Adderall when they were together.
            The October search warrant was issued after investigators reportedly found sexually-explicit images on the teen’s phone that were allegedly exchanged between he and Jarvis, as well as text messages talking about narcotics.
            During the investigation, police found multiple videos of the boy engaged in sexual acts.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            You continue to fight against the dictionary, and are continuously dishonest.

            Susie is a girl.
            Susie likes cookies.
            Susie likes raisins.
            Therefore all girls like raisin cookies.

            That’s your logic, basically.

          • Malleus

            Moving right along, Exhibit C in response to the lie “Gays are NOT pedophiles.”

            Bradenton (Florida) Herald, Dec 13, 2016:
            “A Bradenton couple was charged with multiple counts of sexual misconduct involving special needs adults after an investigation began last month, according to the Manatee County Sheriff’s Office.
            “David Makynen, 30, was contracted with the state of Florida as a supported living coach in many group homes for the past 12 years, mostly in Manatee and Sarasota, according to the sheriff’s office.
            “According to the arrest warrant, Makynen’s boyfriend Jeremiah Damsgaard, 25, negotiated sex between Makynen and a 25-year-old with an intellectual disability, who has known Makynen since age 13. Damsgaard, who had no affiliation with the group homes, promised the victim gifts and money.
            “According to the warrant, when asked if a caregiver should be having sex with the person in his care, Makynen told detectives, ‘Probably not.’
            “Makynen was arrested Monday and charged with three counts of sexual battery on a total of three men with special needs between the ages of 25 and 50.
            “Damsgaard was also charged with one count of lewd and lascivious battery and four counts of lewd and lascivious molestation on a 14-year-old victim. Damsgaard told detectives he thought the victim was 12 or 13, according to the warrant.”

          • Jenny Ondioline

            Gays are not by definition pedophiles. Fact. You can play your semantics game all you like, your argument’s been effectively destroyed by several people now.

          • Malleus

            Exhibit D, in response to the lie “Gays are NOT pedophiles.

            Huffington Post, Dec 18, 2013:
            Two men in Alabama allegedly held a 9-year-old boy captive as their sexual prisoner for eight months, according to Huntsville prosecutors.
            Investigators say suspects Carl Herold and Charles Dunnavant lived together in Huntsville and that the victimized child Herold’s son, according to WZDX.
            Hundreds of pornographic images of children were allegedly discovered, authorities told the station. Some of the photos may include images of the boy who lived in the home, the Associated Press said.
            Herold is charged with two counts of sodomy, aggravated child abuse and three counts of sexual abuse of a child under 12, WHNT reported.
            Dunnavant is charged with sodomy, sexual torture, aggravated child abuse and transmitting or exposing someone to a sexually transmitted disease.
            Bond for both men is set at $1 million.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            Yawn.
            Hitler loved puppies.
            Ergo, everyone who loves puppies is a mass murderer.
            Try again.

          • Malleus

            Exhibit E, in response to the lie “Gays are NOT pedophiles.

            Telegraph (UK), March 28, 2013:
            My gay father’s sexual abuse was swept under the carpet, says victim
            A former Army cadet who was sexually abused from the age of nine by his adoptive father and his gay partner has claimed social workers would not have ignored his cries for help had his abusers been heterosexual.
            Social services insisted on returning Andy Cannon to live with the couple, even though staff at Wakefield council had received up to six allegations of physical and sexual abuse over a number of years.
            Mr Cannon, now 23, said he believed social workers would have removed him from his abusers had they not been gay.
            He said: “If my adoptive dad was in a heterosexual relationship then my complaints would have been listened to earlier.
            “It seems the council didn’t want to be seen as victimising gay people – they’d rather look ‘politically correct’ and let them get away with it to avoid any repercussions.”
            In an independent expert witness report commissioned by Mr Cannon’s legal team, Wakefield social services officials were accused of “folly and gross misjudgement” and of putting the victim at “significant risk” of harm after missing six opportunities to save Mr Cannon from his abusers.
            During his ordeal Mr Cannon was repeatedly plied with Ecstasy and cannabis before being molested by David Cannon and John Scarfe.
            His complaints to care workers were ignored and at one stage he was wrongly diagnosed as having mental disorders.
            Both men were eventually arrested and charged after Mr Cannon was readmitted to into council care following a domestic incident, at which point he managed to persuade a Forster carer he was being abused.
            Cannon, 54, and 31-year old Scarfe were each jailed for 30 months in 2006, for inciting sexual activity with a child.

          • Parodyx

            Um…are you seriously this much of a moron?
            Go ahead and find a handful of stories that manage to show acts of pedophilia by gay people. We can easily find hundreds more done by straight people. You prove NOTHING.

          • Malleus

            I’m posting DATA.

            If you believe any of these news stories are false, feel free to correct them.

            Gays molest boys. That’s just how it is. Sorry you object to truth. Decent people wish to know the truth.

          • Parodyx

            The stories you’re posting are probably true, but so what? A few homosexuals out of millions are pedophiles? What does that have to do with the 99.9% who AREN’T?

            You’re flat out lying by using stories like that because you’re saying ALL homosexuals are pedophiles.

          • Jason Todd

            Are you siding with Jenny by saying there are no homosexual pedophiles?

          • Parodyx

            Jenny didn’t say that. She said homosexuals aren’t pedophiles. In other words they are two different things. Malleus is playing a game where he finds a handful of gay pedophiles online and wants everyone to think that they represent all gay people. They don’t…they represent a fraction of a percentage. I can do the same thing, go online and find a handful of pedophile preachers and say “preachers are pedophiles”. I would be technically correct but misleading…as he is doing.

          • Jason Todd

            She said homosexuals aren’t pedophiles.

            Which is a lie, and a pretty blatant one, too. But one should hear this lie repeated more and more when the open push for rationalizing and normalizing pedophilia begins.

          • Parodyx

            They’re not. Do you possess a dictionary? Look up both words. They have completely different meanings.

          • Jason Todd

            A pedophile is anyone who has sexual contact with someone below the legal age of consent.

            And I am sick of the lies. Don’t you have any sense of decency?

            Blocked.

          • Parodyx

            Yeah, and what’s the definition of homosexual? Not the same, is it?

          • Chris

            “Malleus is playing a game where he finds a handful of gay pedophiles
            online and wants everyone to think that they represent all gay people.”

            And using the same logic I’ve posted a handful of Fundie Christians who’ve molested little girls so, by the same logic Malleus uses, all Fundie Christians molest little girls.

          • mustangsallyann

            What the heck is a fundie Christian?

          • Chris

            Fundie = Short for fundamentalist. I apply the term to those who are fanatical and intolerant in their beliefs. People who think it is so important to defend Christ and Christianity they don’t actually follow the teachings.

          • Chris

            The argument Malleus is making is known as guilt by association. The main point seems to be some people from group A do this therefore everyone from group A are to blame.

          • Raymond Luxury Yacht

            I’ll play your game, Sparky.

            Here’s another perfectly correct statement.

            Straight men molest boys. That’s just how it is. Sorry you object to truth. Decent people wish to know the truth.

          • Jason Todd

            Which means what?

          • Raymond Luxury Yacht

            It means that if he’s trying to claim that all homosexuals are child molesters he’s a liar big time, because most are straight, and by a huge margin.

          • Jason Todd

            Then explain NAMBLA, and why every pedophilia advocacy group in the world has homosexuals as their makeup and membership.

          • Malleus

            I’m not playing a game.

            I’m posting FACTS.

            Obviously I struck a nerve.

          • Raymond Luxury Yacht

            No, you’re lying. You are trying to say that all homosexuals prey on children. Go ahead and deny that’s what you’re saying.

          • Chris

            You’re posting hate and illogic. Obviously you’ve struck irritation.

          • Sharon_at_home

            I’m sorry. I’m a Christian but I don’t believe all Gays molest boys. Years before I joined my church I knew a handful of Gay men and none of them were pedophiles. You are using too broad of a brush to label all Gays as pedophiles.

          • Jason Todd

            Do you believe homosexuality is a sin, as defined by the Holy Bible?

          • Jenny Ondioline

            Yawn.
            Chinese people are asians.
            Japanese people are asians.
            Therefore all Chinese people are Japanese.
            Your logic…you’re welcome to it.

          • Malleus

            Exhibit F, in response to the lie “Gays are NOT pedophiles.”

            You’re just proving what a pathological liar you are.

            CNN, June 30, 2009:
            A Duke University official is accused of offering his 5-year-old adopted son for sex on the Internet, according to the FBI and court documents in the case.
            Frank M. Lombard, 42, was arrested last week at his home in Durham, North Carolina. During an Internet chat, Lombard allegedly offered the child to the person he was chatting with, who was a task force officer from Washington’s Metropolitan Police, the FBI said in a statement.
            The chat was initiated after a confidential source facing child pornography charges told authorities they had witnessed a man, allegedly Lombard, performing sex acts on a child over the Internet.
            During the chat, according to the complaint filed against Lombard, he told the officer that he had performed multiple sex acts on the boy and that the officer could do the same if he came to Durham.
            According to a transcript of the chat, reprinted in the complaint, Lombard allegedly told the officer that he had to hide the abuse from his partner and that he drugged the child with allergy medication.
            Lombard was arrested June 24, and two children at the home, including the 5-year-old, were removed from the home by the North Carolina Department of Social Services, the FBI said.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            Give it up already. It’s the lamest argument there is. Whatever number of gay pedophile stories you find, multiply it by 25 or more to get the number of straight pedophile ones. Yet nobody is making statements like “straight people prey on children”.

          • Malleus

            Exhibit G, in response to the lie, “Gays are NOT pedophiles.”

            Australian Broadcasting Corporation, Feb 7, 2013:

            LEIGH SALES, PRESENTER: It’s a case that defies belief and goes against every principle of parenthood.

            An Australian man and his partner purchased a baby boy in Russia in 2005, presenting themselves as a devoted pair of gay fathers.

            In reality, behind closed doors, they were sexually abusing the boy and allowing others to do the same from when he was less than two years old.

            On the weekend Australian citizen Mark Newton was sentenced in the US to 40 years in prison. His partner Peter Truong is awaiting his sentence.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            It’s cute how even after you’ve been repeatedly shown how your argument is a huge failure, you keep digging up more stories to try to make it fly.

            Lutherans are Christians.
            Catholics are Christians.
            Therefore all Lutherans are Catholics.
            Your logic – own it.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            “When the young man spoke, his voice was trembling. He began with a prayer asking God to embrace him, to empower him, to give him the strength to speak out. What followed will remain with me for the rest of my days on this earth. I heard how the father, a preacher, molested this young man and his brothers from little up.”

            Straight pedophile. findingahealingplace dot com.

          • Malleus

            Anonymous doesn’t count.

            I got REAL PEOPLE, with real criminal records. And all you got is anonymous.

            Facts are the friends of good people. Bad people hate facts.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            Not anonymous, the source was provided. Next.

          • Chris

            And I got real fundies that sexually abused real girls. All fundies molest little girls. Your logic. So the only thing to do is lock up all fundies. When are you going to report to the police Malleus? I’m just using your logic.

          • rubellapox2

            Lisa Biron, a New Hampshire christian attorney who provides pro bono legal work for the anti-LGBT Christian group, the Alliance Defense Fund, a coalition of Christian lawyers.. pimped out her fourteen year old daughter.. filmed the child having sex with two men and would often have sex with said child and other adults…

          • Chris

            You’re out of sequence but a counter to your G

            2008: Wayne Bent (aka: Michael Travesser) was the founder of Lord Our Righteousness Church, sometimes called Strong City.
            He was convicted of one count of criminal sexual contact of a minor
            and two counts of contributing to the delinquency of a minor in 2008.
            He was sentenced to 18 years with eight years suspended.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            “Members of disliked minority groups are often stereotyped as representing a danger to the majority’s most vulnerable members.
            For example, Jews in the Middle Ages were accused of murdering Christian babies in ritual sacrifices.
            Black men in the United States were often lynched after being falsely accused of raping White women.

            In a similar fashion, gay people have often been portrayed as a threat to children.

            In recent years, antigay activists have routinely asserted that gay
            people are child molesters.
            This argument was often made in debates about the Boy Scouts of
            America’s policy to exclude gay scouts and scoutmasters.
            More recently, in the wake of Rep. Mark Foley’s resignation from the US
            House of Representatives in 2006, antigay activists and their supporters
            seized on the scandal to revive this canard.

            Reflecting the results of these and other studies, as well as clinical
            experience, the mainstream view among researchers and professionals who
            work in the area of
            child sexual abuse is that homosexual and bisexual men do not pose any
            special threat to children.”

            US Davis, University of California

          • Malleus

            I’m still posting FACTS. Only fools and liars oppose FACTS.

            Exhibit H, in response to the lie, “Gays are NOT pedophiles.”

            Families apologize after more sex abuse details surface against dead Minnesota teacher, spouse
            By Forum News Service on Sep 1, 2016 at 1:45 a.m.

            WDAZ, Minnesota

            Aric Babbitt, 40, and Matthew Deyo, 36, knew they were under investigation for
            allegations of them having sexual contact with teen boys before they left Minnesota around Aug. 16, according to court documents released this week.

            Additional details contained in an application for a search warrant Wednesday show the extent of the couple’s alleged sexual contact with the boys — two of which were Babbitt’s former students at Lincoln Center Elementary.

            Babbitt had been a teacher at the elementary school since 2002 and had taught grades 1, 2, 5 and 6. He was supposed to teach fourth grade this school year, which starts Tuesday.

            He was put on paid leave by South St. Paul schools after the district learned of
            the allegations Aug. 17, Superintendent Dave Webb said.

            The sexual contact between the teen boys and Babbitt and Deyo happened at
            Minneapolis hotel rooms on two different weekends; at Babbitt’s cabin in
            Crow Wing County; and at the couple’s South St. Paul house.

            Further investigation and interviews revealed other underage boys had experienced similar sexual activity with the couple. In most cases, the boys told investigators, Babbitt and Deyo provided them with alcohol and marijuana.

            The allegations first came to light Aug. 14 when a 16-year-old boy and his parents went to South St. Paul police to report “an ongoing sexual relationship” with Babbitt and Deyo. The couple was friends with the boy’s parents, and Babbitt was the boy’s former
            elementary school teacher, volunteer work supervisor and mentor, according to court documents.

            One boy said the initial sexual contact with Babbitt and Deyo began shortly after he turned 16 in April, when he had unprotected sex with both men in a Minneapolis hotel room.

            “(The boy) said he did not want to do this, but felt unsure about how to say no,” a court document read.

            A few weeks later at Babbitt’s cabin, the same boy said, he was given hard liquor and became intoxicated. After passing out, he awoke on a cabin floor to Babbitt having sex with him, the document read.

            Babbitt and Deyo also rented a hotel room for three nights for the boy and a
            friend of his for the Twin Cities Pride Festival the last weekend of June. The boy told investigators Babbitt became angry when he refused to drink alcohol and have sex with him, the document read.

            Both teens said Babbitt and Deyo encouraged them to take nude or nearly nude
            photos and send them through an app that would erase the contact after a
            short period of time, the document read.

            One boy told investigators he had a “breakdown” and that he told his parents what was happening. He did not want to have sex with Babbitt and Deyo and felt
            pressured to do so, the document read.

            But a few months after he turned 16, in late 2013 or early 2014, Babbitt and Deyo invited him to their house. They gave him beer and marijuana, the document read. Later on, while Deyo was giving the boy a massage, he touched the boy’s private parts, while Babbitt watched.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            Nobody said they weren’t facts. But you know very well they are facts that don’t support your claim. You are claiming all homosexuals are pedophiles, and hand-picking a few of the rare instances where that is the case and ignoring the vast majority where they are not. That makes you the biggest liar of all.

          • Chris

            Counter example H

            2008: Tony Alamo: On SEP-20, FBI agents raided Tony Alamo Christian Ministries
            headquarters as part of a child pornography investigation. This
            investigation involved allegations of physical abuse, sexual abuse and
            allegations of polygamy and underage marriage. According to Terry
            Purvis, mayor of Fouke, Arkansas, his office has received complaints
            from former ministry members about allegations of child abuse, sexual
            abuse and polygamy since the ministry established itself in the area.
            Purvis had turned over information about the allegations to the FBI.
            In late 2009-JUL, Alamo (who had a previous conviction for tax evasion
            in the 1990s) was convicted on ten counts of transporting minors
            across state lines for sexual purposes, sexual assault and other
            crimes. In 2009-NOV, he was sentenced to the maximum punishment of 175
            years in prison.

          • Chris

            Counter Example F

            2008: Joe Barron: Joe Barron, one of the 40 ministers at Prestonwood Baptist Church,
            one of the largest churches in the United States with 26,000 members,
            was arrested on 2008-MAY-15 for solicitation of a minor after driving
            from the Dallas area to Bryan, Texas, in order to allegedly engage
            in sexual relations with what he thought to be a 13 year-old girl he
            had met online. The “girl” turned out to be an undercover law
            enforcement official.

          • Chris

            Counter Exhibit E

            2005: William Kamm – He was an Australian religious sect leader and self-styled Pope Peter II who was sentenced to prison in 2005-OCT for a string of sexual attacks on a 15-year-old girl. In August 2007 his sentence was increased after being found guilty for a series of sexual abuses against another teenage girl over a five year period.

          • Sharon_at_home

            If they are saying that “all Gays are pedophiles, aren’t you doing the same thing by saying that all Christians treat people badly?

          • Jenny Ondioline

            I never said that. You inferred it for some reason.

          • Chris

            Counter example C

            Sexual abuse within fundamentalist

            and other evangelical churches

            Rt. Rev. William Persell, Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Chicago: “We would be naïve and dishonest were we to say this is a Roman Catholic problem and has nothing to do with us because we have married and female priests in our church. Sin and abusive behavior know no ecclesial or other boundaries.” From his sermon on Good Friday, 2002.”

          • Chris

            Counter example B

            “State Rep. Justin Harris and his wife adopted a
            young girl through the state Department of Human Services. How did she,
            six months later, end up in the care of a man who sexually abused her?
            On April 4, 2014, a 38-year-old resident of Bella Vista named Eric
            Cameron Francis was arrested by the Arkansas State Police for the rape
            of a 6-year-old girl in what the police said was his temporary care.
            Sexual crimes against children always attract a certain horrified
            attention, but this particular case earned additional scrutiny because
            Francis had recently worked as head teacher at a Christian preschool in
            West Fork owned by state Rep. Justin Harris (R-West Fork) and his wife,
            Marsha.”

          • sandraleesmith46

            The fact that someone is married doesn’t prove heterosexuality; how he behaves does that; and if the victims are of the same sex, that goes to homosexuality, more than simply pedophilia. Some are opportunistic and abuse children of both sexes. But MOST have a sexual preference in the children they abuse.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            The simple fact is that there are far, far more straight people who abuse children then homosexuals, statistically speaking. And Malleus is trying to say that all LGBT people prey on children which is a vile, disgusting lie.

          • sandraleesmith46

            The “simple” fact is that you do prey on children; maybe not all physically, but there are other equally or even more destructive ways to do so. And you can’t NOT! You can only present your own dysfunctionality to them.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            You’re welcome to present your sources. I know homosexuals and all they’re interested in is living private quiet lives. They aren’t interested in children in the slightest. I don’t know why if you were a homosexual you’d be all fired up to talk to kids about it, it makes no sense.

          • sandraleesmith46

            I know homosexuals too; and that’s the only way they increase their numbers; hence their power; that’s why!

          • Jenny Ondioline

            You can’t seriously be saying that homosexuals “recruit”. They don’t recruit children and they don’t recruit adults. Because you CAN’T. Sexuality isn’t a choice you make, it’s the deal you are dealt. You can’t convince anyone to “turn into” a homosexual, because no one can change their orientation. This a basic science.

          • sandraleesmith46

            Wrong; homosexuality is a LEARNED behavioral disorder; it’s not natural in any sense of the term. Ergo, they have to recruit to increase their numbers.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            Their numbers have always been the same – always. You can’t change someone, and no one would be stupid enough to try. In the animal kingdom and otherwise. You’re born homosexual…you do not and cannot recruit. It doesn’t work that way. That’s a long-debunked myth, I’m amazed you still believe it. Use Google to see for yourself. Unless you think it’s part of some great conspiracy theory.

          • sandraleesmith46

            There is no “in the animal kingdom”; what y’all label as “homosexual” in the animal kingdom is no such thing at all and has nothing to do with intercourse except which of the males gets to mate with the females. You are not “born” homosexual; GOD created humans and He didn’t make them homosexual after first condemning it as an abomination; that’s simply NOT His way! The “myth” is that you were born that way.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            Well, a quick search on YouTube will show homosexuality occurs in the animal kingdom too. I don’t mean we are to act like other species – I only point it out to show that it occurs in nature. Did those animals made a decision to be gay?

          • sandraleesmith46

            No there isn’t homosexual behavior in the animal kingdom;there are dominance/submission rituals that do NOT involve intercourse, only.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            Really? Penguins?

          • Chris

            Not even close. A study of some male rams found that some rams preferred to mate with other male rams even when female rams were available and willing.

            This from Yale scientific magazine “Recent research has found that homosexual behavior in animals may be much more common than previously thought. Although Darwin’s theory of natural selection predicts an evolutionary disadvantage for animals that fail to pass along their traits through reproduction with the opposite sex, the validity of this part of his theory has been questioned with the discoveries of homosexual behavior in more than 10% of prevailing species throughout the world.”

          • sandraleesmith46

            Another bought and paid for study; conclusion reached then “facts” made up to fit the conclusion! Dominance/submission has been part of pack/herd behavior since God created animals!

          • Chris

            “Another bought and paid for study;…”

            That’s right, it’s all a conspiracy. In fact the zoologists who’ve been noticing homosexual behaviour for decades are in on the conspiracy too. As are ALL the scientists who’ve studied the discipline and didn’t write a correction or objection to their studies. In fact the whole scientific community MUST be in on it as well.

            Or you could be a conspiracy nut. Which do YOU think is more likely?

          • SCOTTY LMBOBOY

            You are totally ignorant if you really believe that nonsense!
            The reason you were born with private parts to begin with was for the sole purpose of REPRODUCTION! Hence the term, “REPRODUCTIVE ORGANS!” Geees you disturbed people will go to the extreme to recruit our youth want you!?

          • Jenny Ondioline

            No one recruits people to become gay because everyone (except you apparently) knows you can’t change your sexuality.

            And sex is also for pleasure, not just reproduction. Unless you want to tell celibate and the elderly that they are bad and evil and wicked and sinful too.

          • Chris

            And that’s why people shouldn’t have inoculations. Our arms don’t have the purpose of having needles stuck in them.

            For similar reasons we shouldn’t fly or travel by car. That’s not the purpose of our feet.

          • Chris

            “Wrong; homosexuality is a LEARNED behavioral disorder;…”

            Tell me how many years did you study for your degree in psychology or are you just a quack? The fact is every animal on the planet has a percentage who are homosexual.

          • sandraleesmith46

            No they do NOT! And it doesn’t take a degree in psychology to understand it. I STARTED from psychology/psychiatry for nurses and studied from there.

          • Chris

            I’ve already quoted from new scientist and yale science that every animal species have a segment who are homosexuals. But hey, if you don’t want to believe reality its no skin off my nose.

            Well it seemed that your idea of studying from there was reading right wing blogs and family associated websites. Try reading zoology textbooks next time, M’kay?

          • SCOTTY LMBOBOY

            That’s the lie you fags are telling our children to recruit them! It IS A FRIKN CHOICE! I personally know fags that have went straight and straights that went the un-natural NASTY-life shortening faggot route! So stop spewing your rhetoric!

          • Jenny Ondioline

            You CANNOT recruit into a sexual orientation! And nobody would ever try – what is the matter with you?

          • Jenny Ondioline

            Nobody that you knew that was gay went straight. That is impossible. They are most likely still gay and living a lie.

          • mustangsallyann

            Not so. I have had 2 girlfriend’s turn to other females after being tired of being abused by the men they’d had in their lives. They’d tell you themselves they never had one desire to be with another woman beforehand and fell into it in a moment of despair when meeting a very gentle and kind female. There are people that change sides for various reasons. It may be rarer, but it does happen.

          • Chris

            You do realize that relying on your own experience to form a conclusion is known as the hasty generalization fallacy.

            For example I have a friend who claims that every fundie Christian he’s met has been a liar. Thus he has concluded that all fundie Christians are liars. He’s met eight. Admittedly eight isn’t many but it’s four times more than your example.

          • mustangsallyann

            Why do you think I said it was more of a rarity? I responded to someone that said it never happens, that it’s impossible. I do see they’ve deleted most of their posts so I’ll assume you didn’t see them as well. That said, please remember all of those deleted posts said something that many responded to. You don’t have the full story so are unable to make an objective opinion with the limited info you have.

          • Chris

            “Why do you think I said it was more of a rarity?”

            After studying only a few cases the ONLY conclusion you could reach concerns those particular cases. You couldn’t even generalize and say it is rare.

            “I responded to someone
            that said it never happens, that it’s impossible. I do see they’ve
            deleted most of their posts so I’ll assume you didn’t see them as well.”

            Your assumption would be correct in this case.

            “That said, please remember all of those deleted posts said something
            that many responded to. You don’t have the full story so are unable to
            make an objective opinion with the limited info you have.”

            I don’t have to see their post to recognise flawed methodology.

          • Tangent002

            Attraction to kids in their late-teens is ephebophilia, not pedophilia. The age of consent in Minnesota is 16, regardless of the age mix, unless one participant is an “authority figure,” when the age of the younger party must be 18 or older.

          • Chris

            You mean you’re claiming SOME gays are pedophiles so they should all be blamed. Well Jim Bob Dugger was a heteroseuxual Christian fundie pedophile so everyone should blame all Christian fundies too.

          • sandraleesmith46

            I repeat: NAMBLA!

          • Jenny Ondioline

            Which doesn’t even exist anymore.

          • sandraleesmith46

            Yes it does!

          • Jenny Ondioline

            No one can verify that, and even if they do still exist, who do you think is supporting them? Give you a hint: Nobody.

          • sandraleesmith46

            Wow; that’s some set of blinkers you’re wearing! Must have excellent ear plugs as well that filter out everything you don’t want to know about.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            Is it that hard to answer a simple question? WHO supports NAMBLA?

          • sandraleesmith46

            Members, the homosexual lobbies on J street, and the ACLU.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            No. No homosexual group advocates NAMBLA, sorry, that is a lie.

          • sandraleesmith46

            Wrong again.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            All right, present your sources. You have none.

          • sandraleesmith46

            I did; you ignored them.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            You presented no homosexual organizations, you said the ACLU and even that I find dubious.

          • sandraleesmith46

            I also said their J Street lobbies. But you clearly know NOTHING about the ACLU if you “find that dubious”!

          • Jenny Ondioline

            You STILL have not named a homosexual-based group that backs NAMBLA.

          • Chris

            Please supply evidence that the ACLU support NAMBLA or apologize. I’m betting you’ll do neither.

          • sandraleesmith46

            They support ALL the “pervert” organizations.

          • Chris

            Yes I know you hate people and like to scream your hatred to the world but your hatred is NOT evidence of anything except the fact that you hate others.

          • sandraleesmith46

            I don’t hate people; I hate self and other destructive behaviors.

          • Chris

            Rubbish. You couldn’t care less for self-destructive behaviour. Stand around and abuse anyone who lights up a cigarette do you? That’s self destructive behaviour yet you seem indifferent to it. It’s only behaviour from certain individuals you don’t like that you get involved.

            Oh and calling people names like “pervert” IS a sign of hate, as is using stereotypes. Just accept the fact that you hate others and glory in it.

          • sandraleesmith46

            Just because I don’t go OFF TOPIC and cover EVERY sin out there, when the discussion is about 1 in particular, doesn’t mean I approve it or ignore it. Pervert is a description of behavior that is DIFFERENT from the norm in an unhealthy way.

          • Chris

            “Just because I don’t go OFF TOPIC and cover EVERY sin out there, when
            the discussion is about 1 in particular, doesn’t mean I approve it or
            ignore it.”

            So are you saying that you go up to members of your congregation who are smoking and speak to them like you do to homosexuals on this forum? Why do I find that unbelievable?

            “Pervert is a description of behavior that is DIFFERENT from
            the norm in an unhealthy way.”

            So fundie Christians are perverts since they are different to the norm and fundie Christianity encourages mental illness. Right?

          • Chris

            So when NAMBLA want to molest young girls that should be blamed on homosexuals too? Hey why not blame the comet which hit Jupiter on homosexuals?

          • sandraleesmith46

            NAMBLA: North American Man Boy Love Association; it’d have to be WOMEN to be homosexual then, fool!

          • Chris

            Another Christian who doesn’t think it’s actually important to actually behave in a Christian manner.

            Oh and by the way according to the Gospel you’re going to hell.

            “But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a
            cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his
            brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall
            say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.” Matt 5: 22

          • sandraleesmith46

            Out of context and WRONG; there IS cause; because YOUR behaviors are doing HARM!

          • Chris

            In context and right! There isn’t a cause and I’m NOT a homosexual just someone who stands up against bullies and who seeks the truth.

          • sandraleesmith46

            Those aren’t my brothers, so you’re out of context. And you wouldn’t be “standing” for perversion if you weren’t one.

          • Chris

            “Those aren’t my brothers, so you’re out of context.”

            Ah I see what you’re doing. YOU are ripping the verses out of context. Who was Jesus addressing these words too? NOT Christians. They didn’t exist at this point. He was addressing Jews. So unless your brothers are only Jews then it MUST include EVERYONE. And YOU are hellbound.

            “And you wouldn’t be “standing” for perversion if you weren’t one.”

            Then please explain the existence of my fiancee as well as my stubborn attraction to women.

          • sandraleesmith46

            Believers are my brothers; not everyone is in that category. Ergo; not everyone is my brother. Jesus was addressing BELIEVERS! And you twisting His Words to mean anything else is but another abomination.

          • Chris

            That’s right. Your views are an abomination. He was addressing Jews. Your interpretation, on the other hand is that Jesus is commanding you to be a hypocrite. Read the gospels sometime concerning how Jesus is supposed to feel about hypocrites.

          • sandraleesmith46

            Wrong again; Jewish believers in Jesus’ day, as NOW, are my brothers. There’s no hypocrisy, except in your sick reinterpretation of the straightforward Gospel! I have read them all, MANY times; and see NONE of what you put forth in any of them, let alone the collection thereof, because it’s NOT THERE!

          • sandraleesmith46

            NAMBLA!

          • sandraleesmith46

            Horse puckeys; if you had NO interest in children, you wouldn’t be insisting your sick behaviors be taught in schools as early as KINDERGARTEN!

          • Jenny Ondioline

            Yes you would, because why wouldn’t it be OK to go explain to children in schools that yes, homosexuals exist, and when you grow up, please treat them like human beings, and don’t use your religion to justify hating and killing them?

            I mean what exactly do you think they’re saying to kindergarteners – are they showing them hardcore pornography or something? Get real.

          • sandraleesmith46

            No child under the age of 18 years is emotionally ready to process that kind of information; it DAMAGES them introducing it earlier! Ergo you are engaging in mass child abuse!

          • Jenny Ondioline

            If a child is emotionally ready to process the information regarding straight couples, they can process information about homosexual couples. Why would one be ok but not the other? You don’t need to get into the sexual nitty gritty. Just tell them that with some people, they fall in love with the same gender. That it’s less common but still happens. I don’t think anyone’s head is going to explode.

          • sandraleesmith46

            They aren’t! They’re not ready for any of that before 18, beyond the basic biology of intercourse/reproduction, and that not until puberty.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            Tell that to the children who grow up living perfectly normal lives in the care of same-sex parents. And not just from kindergarten age, either, but a lot younger.

          • sandraleesmith46

            That is an homosexuals’ LIE: even the NIH has produced long terms studies that show children subjected to such “households” LAG in every category, behind even children raised in single parent/ mother only households, which is the next lowest on their scale.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            Well, I have read studies that show the exact opposite of what you say. Lots of them. Reliable ones.

          • SCOTTY LMBOBOY

            BS! Did you read the important one? That shows you will live a shoter life because of this CHOICE you made? Yep ! If you live nasty, you die sooner! End of story! You hated to hear that one didn’t ya fag?

          • Jenny Ondioline

            I’m not homosexual, and no, they don’t live shorter lives. You’re suggesting that people with HIV live shorter lives, and even THAT isn’t necessarily true anymore.

          • Chris

            “That shows you will live a shorter life because of this CHOICE you made?”

            Is this the same choice that some animals from every species on the planet make? How do you think that works? Do lizards wake up one day and think ‘I feel like being gay today?’

          • SCOTTY LMBOBOY

            Jenny Ondioline— HAHA! We are not talking about frikin “killing” faggots! We are simply saying that we have just as much of a right as an American to say we do NOT like it as you do to be a faggot!
            Keep that filthy way of life, (that by the by has been proven to shorten your life because it is un-clean,) in the frikin closet if you don’t want to hear NORMAL straight people saying it’s nasty and they don’t want their children anywhere near it! WOW!
            America has totally flipped it’s back to our Creator, and the blessings are over! You just wait and see! America’s success is over, due to so many allowing Lucifer to have his way!
            Why do you think America has always been blessed so much just as Israel was back in the era when the Israelites were doing God’s will?!
            Israel fell the moment they turned against Yhvh, just like you and so many others have done, especially since your pathetic excuse of a potus spent 8 yrs in the WH doing Lucifer’s will in America!
            You will see I am right and you are wrong, VERY soon!

          • Jenny Ondioline

            In the real world as we know it, homosexuals (I’m not using that filthy word you chose) are beaten up and killed, and I’d really like to know why it’s not OK to teach that to children. Regardless of what your religion says.

          • mustangsallyann

            It’s never okay to beat or kill anyone and obedient Christian’s know and adhere to it as it is what Jesus and God have taught. At the same time, the LBGT community has no right to demand our religious right’s be squashed either, just because we don’t want them dancing in the streets half naked and exposing our children to things we don’t even expose them to at home. And I agree, I wouldn’t use the nasty terms either.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            The LGBT community isn’t trying to squash your rights. You are trying to squash theirs.

          • mustangsallyann

            I’m pretty sure I’ve never been caught on anyone’s street exposing everyone to deviant behavior. In fact, I challenge you to post supporting evidence of any Christian group doing anything close to it. Although I detest their group, I don’t think even the crazies of Westboro Baptist have ever been involved in something like that.

          • Chris

            Why is homosexuality ‘deviant behaviour’?

            How do you define that term? Is it based upon bigotry, as I suspect it is?

          • mustangsallyann

            It has nothing to do with bigotry. If a man and a woman or group of hetero couple’s were in my front yard behaving as they did in front of Pence’s home, I’d call that deviant behavior. Likewise I don’t excuse gays that behave that way either. How about chalking it up to some morals, values and self respect. How about it’s our responsibility to protect all children from that loss of innocence. Or does that not matter to you, as I suspect is the case here.

          • Chris

            “It has nothing to do with bigotry.”

            Ok.

            “If a man and a woman or group of
            hetero couple’s were in my front yard behaving as they did in front of
            Pence’s home, I’d call that deviant behavior.”

            So you define ‘deviant’ as rowdy behaviour? Am I getting that right?

            “Likewise I don’t excuse
            gays that behave that way either.”

            Hey if anyone behaves in a rowdy fashion they should be called on it. I agree there. Not sure about defining it as ‘deviant’ though.

            “How about chalking it up to some
            morals, values and self respect.”

            And what principle of morality did you apply in this instance?

            “How about it’s our responsibility to
            protect all children from that loss of innocence.”

            The term ‘children’ is rather vague. I’m a teacher and taught sex-ed in an RE class. Yes it wasn’t my wacky idea, it was part of the curriculum. My point is lessons need to be age specific. We shouldn’t teach kids to be ashamed of their bodies nor should we dwell on them. As kids get older their questions and curiosity concerning sex needs to be addressed in an adult manner.

            “Or does that not
            matter to you, as I suspect is the case here.”

            Your suspicions would, in this case, be incorrect.

          • Chris

            “It’s never okay to beat or kill anyone and obedient Christian’s know and adhere to it as it is what Jesus and God have taught.”

            History begs to differ.

          • mustangsallyann

            First, you’re speaking of things that didn’t even happen in our lifetimes, if you’ve something current I’d love to hear it. Secondly, the Bible makes concessions for war, we’re talking of about individuals being singled out and targeted for being different. Those isolated incident’s are horrible but I wouldn’t call anyone involved in something like that a Christian and certainly not an obedient Christian. That’s just one of the problems. You have a handful of bad examples and lump everyone into it when truth be told, most Christians would never be involved in carp like that and would also be the first one’s to protect anyone being abused for any reason. Then we’d take them home, feed them and at times, even offer them shelter if they have none or provide them with funds for a hotel. At least that’s how we were taught and how we also raised our children.
            It’s amazing how you’ll defend a group that behead everyone different, right now in current times. That includes you, me and millions of other innocent people if they get the chance. Then you’ll treat Christians, of which most are very kind, loving and giving, like they’re the most horrible people in the world, over something from 1000s of years ago. SMH

          • Chris

            “First, you’re speaking of things that didn’t even happen in our
            lifetimes, if you’ve something current I’d love to hear it.”

            Your wish is my command:

            Date 2016
            An Indianapolis woman who beat her 7-year-old son with a coat hanger is
            citing Indiana’s religious freedom law as a defense against felony child
            abuse charges, saying her choice of discipline comes straight from her
            evangelical Christian beliefs.

            Date 2017
            Anti-gay pastor who cheered Orlando nightclub massacre found guilty of child molestation

            Date 2016
            Christian father ‘shot his son dead for being gay’ and ‘stabbed to death his wife’ at their LA home.

            Date 2015
            A woman in Phoenix is under arrest after telling police she shot and killed an atheist for not believing in God.

            How many more would you like?

            “Secondly, the Bible makes concessions for war, we’re talking of about individuals
            being singled out and targeted for being different.”

            That’s what I’ve provided. Also being ordered to kill women and children, who would be considered non-combatants, is not exactly the same as killing a combatant who is trying to kill you.

            “Those isolated incident’s are horrible but I wouldn’t call anyone involved in something
            like that a Christian and certainly not an obedient Christian.”

            Ah, the no true Scotsman again. Long time no see Scottie.

            “That’s just one of the problems. You have a handful of bad examples and lump
            everyone into it when truth be told, most Christians would never be involved in carp like that and would also be the first one’s to protect anyone being abused for any reason.”

            Why are you blaming carp? What have fish ever done to you? 🙂
            All joking aside I realise that there are many, many Christians who are appalled by the hate peddlers. But there are many others who push the same hatred. Just read the comments on this site.

            “Then we’d take them home, feed them and at times, even offer them shelter if they have none or provide them with funds for a hotel. At least that’s how we were taught and how we also raised our children.”

            I agree that’s the way it should go. Unfortunately there are a number of Christians, both here and elsewhere who are so determined to ‘defend’ Christianity that they don’t actually practice it. Yet they would loudly proclaim that they are Christians too.

            “It’s amazing how you’ll defend a group that behead everyone different, right now in the present.”

            When have I done that? My belief is that people should be judged as INDIVIDUALS, not merely because they are members of a group.

            “Then you’ll treat Christians, of which most are very kind, loving and giving, like they’re the most horrible people in the world, over something from 1000s of years ago.”

            Just because there are people who are violent doesn’t excuse Christians who are also violent. You argue that only a minority of Christians are violent. I would agree. So are a minority of Muslims. Like the violent Christians however they are the ones getting all the attention. Should all such violence be condemned? Absolutely. Unreservedly.

          • mustangsallyann

            Kindergartener’s aren’t even thinking of sex, hetero or gay. I’d be just as p.o.’d if they were teaching plain old sex ed. between hetero couple’s at that age and it’s the right of the parents to decide when that time is right. I’m no prude, when our son’s were of middle school age we taught them about using condoms, respecting partner’s, etc. and we had no teen pregnancies, std’s or anything else for being neglectful because of waiting too long to teach them. In fact, more teens exposed at the earliest ages have the worst problems with teen pregnancy. Please explain that one, if you can. The bottom line is children of that age don’t have the reasoning power to use that knowledge to make better decisions with it. It just makes them more curious about adult sexual behavior and encourages them to experiment with something they may not have done otherwise.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            You don’t need to explain the sexuality aspect to children, only to say that they love one another. Kids are not dumb. They comprehend these things.

          • mustangsallyann

            That would be great if that’s what was happening. We teach our children at home to show love and respect to everyone. But they’re actually teaching that parents are neglectful if they don’t take that 5 year old seriously if they request a sex change. My grand’s are now hearing this in school and very soon, if someone doesn’t get a grip, we’ll be home schooling instead.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            Gender reassignment surgery is never done on anyone that young. And even for people over 18 it is rare.

          • mustangsallyann

            I know that. It’s the beginning of encouragement for them to do so in the future and act like the opposite sex until that time arrives.

          • mustangsallyann

            BTW, why would you address this post, yet ignore the one about those that behaved horribly and criminally in front of Pence’s home?

          • Jenny Ondioline

            Because I never heard that story until now.

          • mustangsallyann

            That’s hard to believe, it was national news. I suppose you don’t have google either. It’s easy to ignore what one doesn’t want to acknowledge, although that same person is on top of anything supporting their agenda. A lie by omission is still a lie. I guess that should be the go to answer for all of us. ‘I didn’t hear about it.’

          • mustangsallyann

            I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt regarding pedophiles, just for argument’s sake. That said, how would you explain the demented behavior of those that gathered and protested in the front yard of Pence after the election? I viewed the pics of a self serving people that could’ve cared less about the local children that saw it right in their neighborhood. The rest were exposed when it hit the news and internet. The more deviant the behavior the better, while those that had a tiny bit of discretion pushed them to the front so everyone got a clear view of their nasty antic’s. I’d say the same thing if it were hetero couple’s acting in kind. Do you really defend that type of behavior? Adults are supposed to protect all children, regardless of any agenda they may have, period. If that’s what we all have to look forward to, then we have every right to be concerned, and the right to fight against it. If they’re willing to act like that in public, the next step is to indoctrinate our children. Before you deny that possibility you probably need to know another fact. Although they said it was a mistake, this year the DSM-5 (psych codes for diagnosis) listed incest as a personal lifestyle choice. It wasn’t an error and only became one once more people learned of it from those in the field that disagreed and were appalled by it. So just who needs our protections? Our children or the LGBT community? I know what my answer to that is and no amount of justifications will ever change my mind about it.

        • William of Glynn

          Lies and hate speech. A judge in my judicial circuit just sentenced a married heterosexual male to life in prison for molesting his niece.

          • sandraleesmith46

            Just because heteros also engage in pedophilia too doesn’t exempt homosexuals from their guilt in this; it’s a LEARNED behavior, so to propagate it, it has to be taught to children and the younger the better, in that instance!

          • Chris

            “it’s a LEARNED behavior…”

            Really? Is that why homosexuality is found in every animal species on the planet?

        • Johndoe

          What a joke! Did you recite that from your book of alt right talking points? Homosexuality has nothing to do with pedophilia any more than heterosexuality does. Nice fail

        • Candi Frank

          Where are you getting the conclusion that gays and lesbians prey on children? Let’s take a look at whatever statistics, studies, reports, etc, you have and compare them to the same information regarding priests. Don’t forget to include information on the organizations that have helped gays and lesbians cover up their pedophilia and allowed it to continue, resulting in thousands of cases. It’s priests that prey on children, not gays or lesbians, and it’s bigoted religious teachings that spread dangerous lies. It’s about time someone in Congress introduce legislation that ensures that children are protected from the church.

          • Jason Todd

            Priests had been molesting boys, but you act as if they are mutually exclusive from the LGBTQW community.

            Nice try.

          • Malleus

            Gays prey on children.

            How many news stories would you like to see before you stop repeating the lie that gays do not prey on children?

          • Tangent002

            If you begin with a premise, you are likely to find some examples in this world of 7+ billion people that fit your narrative.

            I can begin with, “Men with mustaches are prone to stealing lollipops from babies,” and I’ll likely find examples that fit the bill.

          • Malleus

            I’m not posting stereotypes.

            I’m posting news stories. These are real gay men who preyed on real boys.

            I can only think of one reason your sort objects to this.

          • Tangent002

            Who says I’m objecting? You are asserting that all gays prey on children, which is not the case, at least not any more so than heterosexuals do.

            In cases of fixated pedophilia, the perpetrators are unable to form healthy intimate relationships with adult peers of either gender, which is why such attraction is considered a distinct orientation and mental illness. Further, pedophiles tend to consider their victims as mere objects of sexual satisfaction rather than human beings. This lack of empathy is a strong indication of underlying sociopathy.

          • Chris

            And I’m posting real news stories of fundie males who prey on little girls. By YOUR logic all fundie males prey on little girls. When are you going to turn yourself in to the police?

          • Chris

            Fundies prey on children.

            How many news stories would you like to see before you stop repeating the lie that fundies do not prey on children?

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Yes, you’ve firmly established that some homosexuals molest children. Chris has proven that some heterosexuals, including those claiming to be devout Christians, molest children also.

            Is there some point to all this? Can we skip down to the bottom so I know what we’re all trying to accomplish here?

          • Michael Long

            Gay people do not prey on children

          • 0pus

            Sure they do.

          • Sharon_at_home

            Personally I don’t think Gays are necessarily pedophiles, but just like the heterosexuals – they can be.
            If you would just give the time for people who are set in their ways to accept you as you are. Your demands just make people want to push back at you.
            Priests are a different ball game. They aren’t “in the world” so they shouldn’t be used as (bad) examples. The Pope is trying to change it so Priests can be married so it will probably change the how and why the abuse was happening.

          • nebula

            Pedophilia exists in BOTH the gay and straight communities. That doesn’t mean that you can make broad comments saying that one group is exclusively at fault. It’s like saying that some people in a particular group have one thing in common, therefore everyone in that group share that thing. It just isn’t so! It is sick and demonic, and needs to be stopped! Arguing about generalities won’t do it!

      • sandraleesmith46

        It’s NOT “hateful” to decline to share in the deviancy of those who choose a deviant lifestyle; it’s simply choosing to follow Yhwh God’s way; and bears no animosity toward others. NO ONE has said YOU can’t live that way; only that he/she doesn’t wish to join in it with you! Even on a fringe.

        • Jenny Ondioline

          If you don’t want to engage in a homosexual lifestyle, don’t. But don’t tell the people they do that they’re deviants because they’re just your indoctrination speaking. Let people fall in love with whom they will.

          • sandraleesmith46

            Sorry, darlin’, but deviating from the norm, whether you look at faith or biology, is DEVIANCE! It’s foolish to pretend otherwise and delusional to believe it.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            Well then, you can teach children then, too. Just tell them that with some people, their religions insist on hatred and intolerance, and to call things they don’t understand “deviant”.

          • sandraleesmith46

            This is not simply about religion; it’s about Anatomy and Physiology, basic BIOLOGY as well, from which such persons are deviant!

          • Jenny Ondioline

            So then why you are willing to look at the biology but not the psychology? Who teaches you these things are “deviant” if not your religion, since no one else would come to that conclusion?

          • sandraleesmith46

            Oh, I look at the psychology, and the spirituality as well as the biology. WHY do you think the suicide rate is so high? It’s not dependent on how others react; it’s strictly internal. Psychiatry had come to that conclusion long before I began studying it, even in my mother’s text books as a kid; let alone my own, decades later than hers.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            Why do I think the suicide rate is so high? Oh, I don’t know, maybe high and mighty people spreading guilt and shame from the pulpits and elsewhere? People being made to hate themselves because of foolish parents siding with their stone age faiths?

          • sandraleesmith46

            Then you know NOTHING about suicide either. I’m done wasting time on you; you don’t want to learn only propagate your sickness!

          • Jenny Ondioline

            I am done talking to someone who believes in this day and age that homosexuals “recruit”!

      • SCOTTY LMBOBOY

        Jenny Ondioline—- LISTEN TO WHAT YOU JUST SAID!!! Are you an American, or just one of those that just came over here now claims they are?
        You just said, “WE SHOULD NOT BE “ALLOWED” to express how we feel about a group of people! — Do you not understand that as AMERICANs we have RIGHTS? WOW!

        • Jenny Ondioline

          I didn’t say that. I said hatred. Which doesn’t mean “feelings”. It means actions. Discrimination.

      • MikeS

        Your life seems to be lie and males sucking cocks is just wrong.

        • Jenny Ondioline

          Then don’t.

    • sandraleesmith46

      I hate to point this out to you, but it already HAS done!

    • Jorge Rivas

      All this debate below is pretty much moot. Hillary Clinton & her staff made various comments during the campaign disparaging LGBTQs and minorities. All they really wanted was their votes, legally or illegally, to advance their criminal globalist agenda. There was no caring involved. The “caring” was cheap emotionalism. Let’s call it what it is.

    • SCOTTY LMBOBOY

      The Hildebeast is “literally” a WITCH! Or if you prefer a “SATANIST!” An old girlfriend of hers testifies that she has seen her leaving a Satanist church.(if that’s what you call it?) and says she visits one every time she is in LA. NO KIDDIN!

      • Chris

        “The Hildebeast is “literally” a WITCH! Or if you prefer a “SATANIST!”

        A witch is NOT the same thing as a satanist. They are not synonyms.

  • William of Glynn

    Christians in the United States already enjoy a rich and robust “religious liberty.”

    • Jason Todd

      I believe you have spoken this lie before. It is still a lie.

      • William of Glynn

        The fringe element of the Christian Dominionist movement does not want “religious liberty.” It wants special rights.

        • Jason Todd

          Another lie. Got another one for us?

        • Sharon_at_home

          Every one wants special rights, not just religious people.
          It shouldn’t be special rights to not be persecuted every time we turn around either.
          It wouldn’t be necessary if religion wasn’t constantly put on by the people who want equality but don’t want religion to be equal.
          Again, not all Christians are the same – the ones that are loud are only a small number compared to the millions that are in the USA. Stop acting like all Christians are the same when they aren’t.

          • William of Glynn

            I completely agree with you that all Christians are not hateful bigots.

      • Johndoe

        Proof? You have no idea about religious persecution

      • Tangent002

        The only examples of “Christian persecution” in America you can provide is two bakers, one florist, and Starbucks holiday coffee cups.

        • rubellapox2

          Haaaa…..

          • 0pus

            HIV sister

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    Good! Man is not free if he cannot publicly declare that homosexuality and transgenderism is sin and reject serving or endorsing it in any form. Such Sodomic society hurts children the most by the prohibition of morality. Human rights and freedom are non-existent if Christian morality is not allowed to be lived out. The West lost freedom and even sanity by falsely equating the colored people and sexually depraved people to rant equality.

    All skin colors are God’s creation, but homosexuality and transgenderism are sins. Western whites must stop desiring to enslave mankind once and for all. Western whites must go back to the Holy Bible to be free and also give others freedom in their nations. Submission to the Sodomites is the worst kind of slavery that mankind ever faced. No submission to Western pervs. The Holy Bible alone grants freedom to all mankind, both then and now. The Westerners must stop being haughty against God; no man is smarter than the Holy Bible.

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom,
    And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.”
    (Proverbs chapter 9)

    • Karin Isbell

      Amen!

  • Malleus

    I posted several news stories of gay men – adults – who preyed on underage boys. These are actual stories of men who were charged with crimes and in many cases sent to prison.

    And I was told by several people I was posting “lies and hate speech.”

    Apparently in the Politically Correct world, “hate speech” means “anything we don’t wish to hear.”

    Very sad when people prefer lies to truth. Christians should always be on the side of truth. Satan is what Jesus called him – “the Father of lies.” The enemies of Christianity become furious when the truth is told.

    • Jenny Ondioline

      You are cherry picking stories to support a claim you made that all homosexuals prey on children, but you ignore all the data that shows straight men do it in far greater numbers. You fooled nobody. You did not answer a single charge of ignoring the data you do not want to admit exists. That is cowardly, deceitful and disgusting. The vast, vast majority of homosexuals have no interest in children.

    • Chris

      I posted several news stories of Fundie men – adults – who preyed on
      underage girls. These are actual stories of men who were charged with
      crimes and in many cases sent to prison.

      By your logic if some fundies do it then all fundies are to blame, so I repeat when are you going to report yourself to the police?

  • MASR53

    Proverbs 26:4 Don’t answer the foolish arguments of fools, or you will become as foolish as they are.

  • sandraleesmith46

    In order to be a “real friend” to that fringe group of deviants, Trump has to alienate and discriminate against the rest of society! HOW is that “right”? Sorry, but we also are protected under the Constitution and it’s TIME that protection gets upheld too!

    • William of Glynn

      Your constitutional protection has always been upheld.

      • sandraleesmith46

        NO, it has NOT been! In fact, it’s been violated right and left!

        • William of Glynn

          How so?

          • sandraleesmith46

            Freedom of expression is violated DAILY; in schools, in the public arena, in courts etc.

          • William of Glynn

            Freedom of what expression?

          • sandraleesmith46

            Faith, in our daily lives; that means adhering to Yhwh God’s laws when man’s come into conflict with them. Freedom of religion is not simply about being able to go to the church of your choice.

          • William of Glynn

            In what way have you been prevented from accomplishing this?

          • sandraleesmith46

            If you need me to list those, you are only paying attention to what you want to hear.

          • William of Glynn

            Yeah, pretty much what I suspected.

          • sandraleesmith46

            You’re no more or less than what I expect from any lib either.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            That’s because you believe your freedom of expression is “violated” when you’re told to stop oppressing others.

          • sandraleesmith46

            It is NOT “oppression” to decline to participate in your deviant and sinful behavior; it’s simply saying NO to your WANTS! Oppression/bullying is when you use the courts to DESTROY LIVES for that simply act of faith.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            And I’m sure that when it came time to give them the rights to same-sex marriage, you voted them down.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            And if you want to be believed, we need you to “list those.”

  • Ron Bedell

    The last tiome Donald Trump was going to do this his anti-American son-in-law and daughter, Jerod and Ivanka, urged him NOT to do this.

  • rvandegrift

    As far as the difference between Trump and hillary on the lgbt issue, he is not an activist on the issue as she is; and those of us with closely held religious beliefs had better put more pressure on our elected officials so 300 representatives and 60 senators finally act to clearly state legislatively that the first amendment means we have the right to our religious beliefs in public as well as in private, in our businesses as well as in our houses of worship. Without profound changes that solidly place us back on the track that our Founding Fathers died to enfranchise, it is only a matter of time before the left/liberals/Democrats/George Soros anarchists firmly and finally push their agenda onto all of us and we will no longer have a choice!

    • zeddicuskotor

      That’s word salad.

  • dudesomejust

    Well, 384 others didn’t sign it. Not to mention 100 senators. The LBGTQXYZ community, wherever they roam, can relax. This is merely symbolic.

  • tomnchrist

    Disclaimer: I voted for Trump.
    However, He is pro lbgt and so is Ivanka, So Congress will have to pass it’s own bill to protect Christian religious rights.

    • William of Glynn

      Maybe Trump is pro-LGBT and pro-Christian.

    • Lexical Cannibal

      LBGT person here! The man may not be explicitly anti-LBGT, but that’s about as far as I trust him to take it. We’re a diverse set of groups with varied beliefs and values etc etc, but I don’t think it’s unfair to say that the majority of LBGT people trust him to hold up his “friend to the gays” act about as well as he held up his promise to label China a currency manipulator. That is to say, it’s something he’ll say for as long as it’s beneficial to say it, and no longer. I’m abput 90% sure he’d sign an EO like this in a second if he thought he could get enough praise and attention for it.

      Literally, the dude held up a flag, said that same-sex marriage was settled law, and then stripped out a bunch of our employment protections like two weeks into his term. That doesn’t exactly scream “Donald J. Trump, Ally.”

  • leewacker

    This sounds like a backdoor method to approve Islam as a religion in this country! I SAY NO!

    • Jason Todd

      Islam is an ideology, not a religion.

      • Trilemma

        Muslims worship the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. That makes it a religion.

  • Like a moth to the flame, Christians are determined to promote religious freedom and, in so doing, are their own worst enemies.

    Religious Freedom and Christian Liberty are not the same thing. They are, in fact, hostile to each other. The former is born of the First Amendment. The latter is born of the First Commandment. In 1789, the First Commandment and Christian Liberty were formally sacrificed on the altar of the First Amendment and Religious Freedom. It’s the Klein’s Christian liberty that’s being attacked as a consequence of the First Amendment’s provision for an alleged religious freedom for all.

    It’s one thing to allow for individual freedom of conscience and private choice of gods, something impossible to legislate for or against. It’s another matter altogether for government to enable any and all religions to proliferate through the land and evangelize our posterity to false gods. This is what the First Amendment legitimizes. It is an unequivocal violation of the First Commandment and the polar opposite of the following First Commandment statute:

    “‘[Y]e shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves. For thou shall worship no other god: for Yahweh, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God: Lest thou … go a whoring after their gods….” (Exodus 34:13-15)

    It’s the First Amendment that the sodomites, lesbians, and atheists hang their hats on and that they’ve been able to utilize for their cause. It’s likewise the First Amendment that so many Christians hang their hat on as if there’s something intrinsically Christian about it when, in fact, it is entirely antithetical to the Bible. It’s thus suicide for Christians to appeal to the First Amendment in any fashion whatsoever.

    For more, see online Chapter 11 “Amendment 1: Government-Sanctioned Polytheism” of “Bible Law vs. the United States Constitution: The Christian Perspective.” Click on my name, then our website. Go to our Online Books page, click on the top entry, and scroll down to Chapter 11.

    Then find out how much you really know about the Constitution as compared to the Bible. Take our 10-question Constitution Survey in the right-hand sidebar and receive a complimentary copy of a book that examines the Constitution by the Bible.

  • Karin Isbell

    One of the most important aspects of preserving religious liberty will be the eradication of the Johnson edict which forbade free speech from the pulpit.

  • peanut butter

    If the ACLU was protecting religious freedom, it would have sided with the bakers, florists and photographers who were expressing their religious beliefs, as is protected by the first amendment. I thought they stated they were not going to take any more religion cases. Satanists… that is not a religion, it is pure evil.

  • WVF

    These members of Congress are cowards. Why should President Trump issue an executive order when all they have to do is get the votes to pass this legislation? Executive orders are weak. If we end up with another anti-American as President, all that President would have to do is issue a repeal of the order.

  • Jason Todd

    Mercy!