Minnesota City to Allow ‘Non-Theistic’ Satanic Temple to Place Monument in Veterans Park

BELLE PLAINE, Minn. — Officials in a Minnesota city have agreed to allow the Satanic Temple, which does not believe in a literal Satan, to erect a monument in its Veterans Park after the group applied for inclusion now that a “limited public forum” has been created in the park to allow the presence of a cross grave marker that upset atheists.

“It was discussed during our city council meeting when we authored the policy that groups that were unpopular or otherwise would put monuments in the park,” Belle Plaine City Administrator Michael Votca acknowledged to the Washington Post.

As previously reported, the situation began last year after the Belle Plaine Veterans Club placed a memorial in the park that featured a soldier kneeling before a cross tombstone, such as are seen in some military cemeteries. The display was erected next to an inscribed stone honoring local residents who had lost their lives in various wars, from the Indian War of 1862 to the Korean and Vietnam Wars.

The Wisconsin-based Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF) contended that the inclusion of the cross in the display promoted Christianity and failed to represent other religions or those who reject religion. It contended that even though the purpose of the display was not meant to be religious, the cross grave marker made it so, and asked that the symbol be removed since its placement on city property could be construed as government endorsement.

City council met over the matter in January, and members of the Belle Plaine Veterans Club reluctantly agreed to cut the cross off the display. But as the move greatly disturbed area residents, city council members voted in February to create a “limited public forum/free speech zone” in Veterans Park to solve the issue.

“[The limited public forum] ensures that there is no endorsement of religion by the city whatsoever because the memorials that will be put up represent the citizens that put them up,” Alliance Defending Freedom’s (ADF) Doug Wardlow explained.

The grave marker was then welded back onto the monument and returned to the park.

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However, seeing an opportunity, the Satanic Temple soon applied to have its monument placed in the park, and city officials said they had to allow it because of the forum status.

The display is described as a “black steel cube with embossed inverted pentagrams with inlaid gold on four sides. An inverted helmet rests on the top of the cube. A plaque on one side of the cube reads: ‘In honor of Belle Plaine veterans who fought to defend the United States and its Constitution.’”

“It’s certainly better to preserve the First Amendment than to preserve your notions of religious supremacy on public grounds. That’s certainly not what America was founded on and certainly not what our soldiers fought for,” Satanic Temple leader Doug Mesner, who goes by the name Lucien Greaves, told the Star Tribune.

As previously reported, the Satanic Temple launched a nationwide targeted effort last year to spawn “After School Satan” clubs in elementary schools that allow Child Evangelism Fellowship’s Good News clubs.

The organization likewise sought to place Satanic literature in schools in Delta County, Colorado in 2016 after it took issue with a Bible distribution by Gideon International. It attempted to do the same in Florida in 2014 when a Christian ministry made Bibles available to high school students on “Religious Freedom Day.”

The Satanic Temple similarly launched an effort to erect an homage to Satan on the grounds of the Oklahoma capitol building in 2013 after the ACLU filed a lawsuit challenging the presence of a Ten Commandments monument at the location.

According to its website, the “non-theistic” Satanic Temple does not believe in Satan at all, but only views the devil as a metaphor and a “symbol of the eternal rebel.” Some consider the group as essentially an atheist effort to make a point about religion.

“[W]e do not promote a belief in a personal Satan,” its FAQ section explains. “To embrace the name Satan is to embrace rational inquiry removed from supernaturalism and archaic tradition-based superstitions.”


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  • Amos Moses

    Minnesota used to such a wonderful place to live …… it has become a cess pool ………

    • Ambulance Chaser

      Why? Because you believe that parks should be open to monuments of only your religion?

      • Amos Moses

        straw man ………

        • Ambulance Chaser

          That’s not an answer. Nor is it a correct usage but I’ll let that one go.

          What do you believe to be wrong about this situation?

          • Amos Moses

            that minnesota has become a cess pool ………….

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Okay, and why is it a cesspool?

          • Amos Moses

            have you ever lived there ……………

    • Sisyphus

      Uptown Minneapolis is still quite nice, near Lake Calhoun. In fact, the level of gentrification near Hennipen Avenue and Lake Street has forced the “cess” to the Northeast.

      • Amos Moses

        used to live Uptown ….. i like the lakes …… but it is the state of the state that is the problem …..

        • Sisyphus

          You could run for office. More convenient to bemoan a problem though, I guess.

          • Amos Moses

            no longer live there ….. as i said …. it has become a cess pool …….. do miss Dulonos though ……

          • Sisyphus

            Yum, now I’m hungry. Probably have to agree, W Lake Street could be a bit sketchy. Back in the day, my friends with money lived near Loring Park or in the burbs. As a poor undergrad, not so fortunate.

          • Sisyphus

            Headed up to the Vermilion Gorge and Boundary Waters this weekend, I’ll be sure to report back any evidence of the cess pool.

          • Amos Moses

            Racist Note That Led to Protests, Cancelled Class at St. Olaf’s College Was ‘Fabricated’

            head south ……… head to Northfield ……

          • Sisyphus

            Misguided and trouble making students is an indictment of the entire state? Some interesting thinking you have there.

          • Amos Moses

            the sad part is …. St. Olaf is a christian college ……..

            St. Olaf College — A private liberal arts college of the Lutheran church ……….. very sad ….

          • Sisyphus

            True, but ELCA not the real Missouri Synod Lutheran…ha!

          • Amos Moses

            nor Wisconsin Synod ……….

          • Sisyphus

            Non of the treasonous heretical Lutherans are Calvinist enough.

          • Amos Moses

            dont even know what that means ……….

          • Sisyphus

            Martin Luther was considered treasonous by King Henry the 8th and heretical by Pope Leo X and John Calvin “fixed” protestantism.

    • John Buchanan

      Don’t speak about the whole state that way because of a little article you read about Belle Plaine . You don’t know what God is doing in the Twin Cities . You don’t know about the young people that are fasting, and praying for an outpouring of the Spirit upon Minneapolis. You don’t know about the thousands who gathered on Thursday night in front of the new Vikings stadium to worship and cry out to God for the souls of this city that I was a part of and saw people exalting Jesus as Lord and standing in the gap interceding for Minnesota

      • Amos Moses

        which just points out ….. that if that needed to be done ….. then something is wrong …….

        • John Buchanan

          no it just points out to the rest of us that Belle Plaine , which is one small farming town in which I used to live, had a group of satanic representation to erect a monument

          • Amos Moses

            hence it has become a cess pool ……………. and the problems of minnesota are FAR more reaching than that ……………

          • John Buchanan

            It’s only a cesspool to those who are self appointed judges or modern day Pharisees who do not perceive what the Holy Spirit is doing . Every article that you comment whether it is Charisma,
            Christian News Network or any other Christian publication is negative and critical . You sir are in need of a Pharisectomy

          • Amos Moses

            ok …. playing the Pharisees card …… you know …. if you are going to play it …… you should at least KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT ….. (link omitted)

            “Playing the Pharisee Card”

            I have been called a Pharisee more times than I can remember. It goes with the territory. I host a conservative Christian radio talk show. I publicly defend the teachings and practices of the historic Church. I also publicly point out false teaching and practices in the Church today. For these reasons alone, some believe that I deserve to be called a Pharisee.

            But I’m not alone. Today, the label “Pharisee” is applied to many Christians just like me—perhaps you’re one of them. We are Christians who cherish God’s Word, the Church’s historic Creeds, confessions and practices. …

            When we see the Church abandoning these things to follow the latest fads and entertainments, we lament. When we see the Gospel itself being left behind in the Church’s rush to mimic popular culture, we are grieved. And when we question the Church’s infatuation with the spirit of the age, we are labeled Pharisees.

            The “race card” is a political term of art made famour during the 1988 presidential race between George H. W. Bush and Michael Dukakis. In today’s presidential politics, we also have the “gender card.” The Race and Gender Cards aren’t designed to rise the legitimate issues surrounding race or gender. Instead, both the Race and Gender Cards are political tactics that exploit racial and gender divisions among voters, and appeal to the worst racial and gender sterotypes. In American politics, the Race and Gender Cards are played to discredit someone by implying that he is racist or sexist.

            Just as politicians and pundits play the Race Card or the Gender Card, many in the Church are playing the “Pharisee Card.”

            Just like the Race or Gender Cards, the Pharisee Card is not designed to raise a legitimate issue of doctrine or practice. Rather, the Pharisee Card is used to discredit someone by implying that he is narrow, rigid, and unloving—a Pharisee. Most often these days, the Pharisee Card is played to portray a fellow Christian as a “doctrinal purist,” resistant to change, and therefore, unconcerned for the lost.

          • John Buchanan

            You should know . Obviously you see yourself as one of God’s enforcers . You obviously were not forgiven much , so therefore you don’t love much . People that have been forgiven much can love much and understand amazing Grace. They sling mercy everywhere they go . They are thankful for salvation and know they did not deserve it . You see others through a magnifying glass yet see yourself through rose colored glasses . That’s religion not relationship .

          • Amos Moses

            my goodness you are BORING …… i have no power to enforce anything ……… you have your opinion …… but i see NO SCRIPTURE ……. and if ANYONE is the PHARISEE in this exchange ……. IT IS YOU ………….. see ya, would not want to be ya …….. FYI …. i have said nothing to you about anything as to religion …….. especially your religion …… it has nothing to do with the truth …….. i was speaking of the GENERAL condition of the state of minnesota …… i grew up there ….. there is NOTHING you could tell me about it that i do not already know ………….

          • John Buchanan

            No sir, your witness is boring . Your depiction of the Father is boring and that is misrepresentation . You are not self aware enough to realize that all those internet post you make is not painting Christianity in a positive light . Apostle Paul said that Christ followers were to be living epistles read of all men. Your arguments are always obstinate and abrasive

          • Amos Moses

            so which depiction are you referring to …… because honestly ….. i have no idea what you are talking about …. and i still see no scripture …….. just blather ………. all of my posts are wide open and available to be quote mined ………. have fun …. dont hurt yourself ……….

          • Amos Moses

            Racist Note That Led to Protests, Cancelled Class at St. Olaf’s College Was ‘Fabricated’

            again …… minnesota has become a cesspool ……… and the proof just keeps on coming ……… and i like Northfield …… they make good cereal there ……..

          • John Buchanan

            Last time I checked there was already a Creator of the universe who is quite capable of judging . Your judgement is not required . We are all so indebted to you for surveying the land and making us aware of the cesspools . People that actually spend time with God can believe the best about others , Love builds up while knowledge puffs up .

          • Amos Moses

            1 Cortinthians 6
            6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
            6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
            6:4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
            6:5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

          • John Buchanan

            more knowledge and no love . no kindness . no patience . no fruit . You win nobody to Jesus

          • Amos Moses

            true …. Christ does all that work ….. none of it is my own …… i did not even win myself to Him ….. i am completely and totally unworthy of His grace …. and yet ………… but you seem to lack any knowledge ….. if you do not know His word …. then HOW can you know Him …..

            1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
            1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
            1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
            1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
            1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

          • Amos Moses

            BTW …. neither have you …. that is all the work of Christ …… you do not get to steal His glory ….. He does not share that with anyone ………..

          • Amos Moses

            love as defined by what …. what definition are you using ….. lying to people is not loving ….. kindness is not lying to them ……. i show them all patience ……

          • Amos Moses

            There are six different kinds of “love” that from the Greek gets translated as “love” but in English that distinction is one that gets terribly lost and it is also terribly misused by those who want to shame the christian for somehow not expressing it to the satisfaction of the detractors so we need to ask, which love is being discussed?

            Eros, Philia, Ludus, Pragma, Philautia, or Agape?

          • Amos Moses

            “We who preach the gospel must not think of ourselves as public relations agents sent to establish good will between Christ and the world. We must not imagine ourselves commissioned to make Christ acceptable to big business, the press, the world of sports or modern education. We are not diplomats but prophets, and our message is not a compromise but an ultimatum.” ~ A.W. Tozer

          • Amos Moses

            “Tens of thousands, perhaps millions, have come into some kind of religious experience by accepting Christ, and they have not been saved.” ~ A.W. Tozer

          • Amos Moses

            Matthew 7 Read the WHOLE chapter

            Matthew 18:15

            John 7:24

            2 Timothy 3:16

            1 Corinthians 5 & 6

            1 Corinthians 2:15

            Proverbs 27:5, Proverbs 31:9

          • Amos Moses

            Were the Pharisees Concerned with Doctrinal Purity?

            The Pharisee Card is played against Christians who are concerned with doctrinal purity. When used this way, the Pharisee Card is intended to discredit the doctrinal purist and silence any further questions about false teaching. It works beautifully. Those dealing the Pharisee Card know that many Christians would rather suffer silently under false teaching than speak up and risk being labeled a Pharisee.

            The only problem is, Jesus never faulted the Pharisees for being doctrinal purists. He faulted them for being false teachers who abandoned the truth of God’s Word in favor of the erroneous word of man (Matthew 16:11–12; 15:1–9; Mark 7:6–13).

            Jesus called Christians who demanded doctrinal purity “disciples,” not “Pharisees.” “If you abide in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” (John 8:31–32) In fact, Christians who demand doctrinal purity are really following the example of Jesus, of Paul and the other Apostles (Matthew 7:15; see also Matthew 24:10–11; Mark 9:42; 2 Corinthians 15:5; 1 Thessalonians 5:21; 1 Timothy 4:16; 6:3–4; Titus 1:7–9; 2:1, 7–8; 1 John 4:1; 2 Peter 3:17).

          • Exactly.

            Jesus Christ didn’t rebuke the Pharisees for doctrinal purity.

            He rebuked them for…

            • Being hypocrites (Matthew 15:7) (Matthew 16:3) (Matthew 22:18) (Matthew 23:13-15,23,25,27-29) (Mark 7:6) (Mark 12:15) (Luke 11:44) (Luke 12:1)

            • Observing their man-made doctrines over God’s (Matthew 15:2-9) (Mark 7:1-13)

            • Performing their works in order to be justified before men (Matthew 23:5-7) (Luke 16:15)

            • Loving the praise of men more than the praise of God (John 12:43)

            etc.

          • Chris

            You’ve just described every fundie on this site.

          • Amos Moses

            6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
            6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
            6:4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
            6:5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

          • Sisyphus

            Many of the more vocal folks on this board prefer to paint their version of reality with a very broad brush. Thousands of places in Minnesota are inhabited by kind and wonderful people. I have spent time enjoying Minnesota in places from Worthington all the way to Duluth. If my wife didn’t hate the cold weather and the mosquitoes, we would move back in a heartbeat.

          • Amos Moses

            a group of satanists in a small town ….. but that is not a problem …… really ….. no nook or cranny untouched by satan …….. but everything is wonderful in disneyland ………… hmmmmmmmmm ……..

            see …. thats the problem with minnesota …… not just there mind you …. focus on the micro …… ignore the macro-problem …… sticking heads in the sand ……….. THAT is the problem …………

  • InTheChurch

    As long as the cross is still there, I’m good. That new monument would look great by the bathroom area.

    • balloonknot9

      Just throw a urinal cake on the top and we’re good.

  • Trilemma

    In other words, I’ll look at yours if you at mine.

    • Malleus

      That would require a microscope.

  • Dan Smith

    Remember, you all want freedom of religion and satanism is a recognized religion…

    • balloonknot9

      “Remember, you all want freedom of religion and satanism is a recognized religion…”

      Can you not even see how illogical their claim is that they are a religion. They constantly contradict themselves I don’t understand how people do not pick up on it. They claim that they do not worship a deity or any other force, here are their so called tenets:

      “The mission of The Satanic Temple is to encourage benevolence and
      empathy among all people, reject tyrannical authority, advocate
      practical common sense and justice, and be directed by the human
      conscience to undertake noble pursuits guided by the individual will.”

      Sounds pretty nice doesn’t it, benevolence, empathy, tyranny, common sense, justice, noble pursuits, but that is not what satanism is about now is it. In fact their whole identity is to co-opt Christianity in everything they do, even to the point of trying to lure people in with the same Christian principles all the while being anti-Christian. The black mass, is a perverted Catholic Mass, they even steal the Eucharist to desecrate it. The Cross, is perverted by displaying it upside down, they target Christian presence in society (like this article here), even Manger Scenes are a threat.

      They are nothing more than drug dealers telling their hapless victims how they have the best high, you’ll feel great, your life and the world will appear wonderful. But we all know how that ends up. They offer people nothing worthy, and those who get sucked in are lost looking for love and finding nothing but despair. The TST are nothing but a hate group masquerading, or should I say have a sugary coating by using Christian tenets, which ironically they hate.

      • TamLin

        You’re all over the map here, friend. First you tell us that the Satanic Temple’s tenets are “not what they’re about,” but on what authority do you pretend to know that? Then you start talking about “black masses” and stolen eucharists, a medieval superstition. You’re calling them a hate group, but the hateful hateful rhetoric I’m reading here is yours.

    • libertynottyranny

      & im sure you, the AAA, & the FFRF will sue Belle Plaine to remove this religious symbol from public grounds on the basis of separation & as an offense to non-satanists…No one is holding their breath.

      • Lexical Cannibal

        Not likely, so long as it remains an open forum. That’s kind of how it works; either all religions are allowed, or no religions are allowed. It’s when “one, but not the others” or even “some, but not the others” is the rule that, legally, it becomes a problem.

        • libertynottyranny

          Ya…right – apparently you aren’t very well read. Name one instance where the AAA or FFRF ever stated those grounds for a suit. You legalistic hypocrites (like ambulance chaser) are always pointing to “separation” & that is exactly what you’d be stating if this were a cross instead of a pentagram. But that’s okay, just keep making it up as you go – intellectual honesty is overrated…

          • Chris

            Another great example of Christian behaviour here. Tell me why do you think the defence of Christianity is so important if you never practice it?

          • libertynottyranny

            1. I was pointing out the double standard & that it is clear who & what y’all are at war w/
            2. If you know what righteous behavior is, why are you not practicing it?
            3. When you stand before Christ in the judgment, are you going to use me as your excuse for rejecting the truth (Christ) or are you going to point to the cross & beg for mercy?

            My apologies for offending you, but by your admission you clearly know enough of the Truth that you won’t be able to hide behind ignorance (or my boorish behavior). The good news friend is that there’s plenty of room in Christ’s kingdom for another sinner – so come on in while you still can. Shalom

          • Chris

            I’ll attempt to answer your questions.

            “1. If you know what righteous behavior is, why are you not practicing it?”

            In what way have I been unethical?

            “2. When you stand before Christ in the judgment, are you going to use me
            as your excuse for rejecting the truth (Christ) or are you going to point to the cross & beg for mercy?”

            Neither since I don’t believe in judgement day. Were such to eventuate I would ask by what right Christ is judging me?

            “My apologies for offending you. However by your admission you clearly know enough of the Truth that you won’t be able to hide behind ignorance (or my boorish behavior).”

            It is not merely a matter of boorish behaviour. It is a matter of being self-aware. If you think Christianity is so important then why don’t you practice it?

            “You know full well that it was Jesus Christ’s sacrifice, not my actions, that save. …”

            I didn’t suggest that your actions were capable of saving anyone, merely that you should walk the walk and NOT just talk the talk. Something I believe the Pharisees were portrayed as guilty of in the gospels.

            “Shalom”

            Peace

          • TheLastHonestLawyer

            OK, let’s take this slowly.

            When the only memorial in a public space had an explicit religious reference, there was a problem. Because that created san establishment of religion. The monument was, in effect, establishing Christianity as a government-endorsed faith.

            At that point, the city had three options:

            1. Modify the memorial. I recall seeing a proposal to remove the cross and replace it with the iconic boots, rifle and helmet used in field memorial services.

            2. Remove the memorial completely.

            3. Declare the area the memorial sits in a “limited public forum/free speech zone” and allow memorials from different groups.

            They chose the third option, and now The Satanic Temple is going to place a monument in Veterans Park.

            Which is a perfect solution. A public forum needs to be open to all, or it violates the Constitution. The city can reject submissions if they are grossly offensive (but they better be ready to fight that out in court) but most groups will simple want to acknowledge that it’s not just Christians who have served this nation and paid the last full measure of devotion.

  • balloonknot9

    “The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.” 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12

    • Colin Rafferty

      Different religions feel differently. That’s what Freedom of Religion is about. If the government is going to allow one religion to have a display, it has to allow all.

      • balloonknot9

        i think every religion draws the line at evil.

        • Colin Rafferty

          Absolutely. So where is the evil in this statue? Or in that particular church?

          Please note, as the article states, that church does not believe in the Satan, but views him as a metaphor for questioning.

          • balloonknot9

            Does the statue up lift and give hope, comfort, solace? Does it show love and reverence or instill honor of their sacrifice? It is a black cube, with an inverted star, with a so called upside down helmet which indicates what? There is no beauty, and I’m not talking about avant garde eye of the beholder, but it does nothing for those who died, those who visit their loved ones, nor does it inspire people to loving appreciate what others gave to this country.

          • Colin Rafferty

            I believe it does. It’s similar in style to the Vietnam Vets Memorial in DC. The upside down helmet indicates fallen soldiers. The inverted star is a religious symbol, like the cross. And it says “In honor of Belle Plaine veterans who fought to defend the United States and its Constitution.”, which is quite honorable.

            But you forgot to point out how it’s evil. It seemed like your first comment was saying that it was evil. If inferred wrong, I’m sorry. But if you think it is evil, what’s evil about it?

          • balloonknot9

            “In satanism this symbol is inverted upside down to represent the
            rebellion or subversion of man and is known as a the “sigil of
            baphomet”. It then has two points facing up, instead of one, which then
            also represents the goat demon, baphomet, azazel, satan.” But they do not believe in satanism, so why not have something else? Because it is a lie.

            This is nothing like the Vietnam memorial which was put in its own spot, unlike this which was put up in defiance of the Cross. So the mere fact that they are using these fallen soldiers as bait to get their thing put up should be seen as a red herring. In fact, that is the whole reason it is there and unlike the benevolence, empathy, and all the other lies, it is there for their self glorification.

            If I have to explain the evil of satanism, or TST, then read my original post and see that you are deceived. Or you can google the subject yourself and ask yourself if you feel enriched afterwards and can say, I’ve got to get me some of that. It’s getting late so I cannot respond again tonight. Peace.

          • Colin Rafferty

            I think I see your problem. You think that the Satanic Temple is lying when they say they don’t believe in Satan. With no proof. So because you think they are lying, and that they actually worship Satan, they are evil.

            Well, you are wrong. They do not worship Satan.

            And you don’t like the fact that they have their memorial in the same park as a Christian one. Well that’s not evil, that’s freedom. The same freedom that allows Christians to put up a Christian memorial allow other religions to put up their memorials.

            What would be evil is giving one religion precedence over another. But I guess that’s just you wanting special privileges for your religion.

          • Chet

            You do seriously err, Sir. There is absolutely no symbol anywhere that can even begin to establish or stand for what the Cross of the Lord Jesus Christ stands for or represents… Please do not be deceived as the Devil is masterful of his devices, and especially so in the last days where right is now wrong, and up is somehow now down.

          • Colin Rafferty

            Actually, different symbols mean different things to different people. Please don’t assume that everyone believes the same things you do, especially when you are literally talking about a different religion’s beliefs.

          • Chet

            I stand on the foundation of the Cross of the Lord Jesus Christ and make no apology nor excuse. “Neither is there salvation in any other, for there is none other name under Heaven given among men whereby we must be saved” Acts 4:12, Holy Bible. That wholly narrows things to the one and only road to mercy, grace and forgiveness for one’s sins and a home in Heaven upon snapping out into eternity. And that name is Jesus Christ, the Lord of Lords and King of Kings, period.

          • TamLin

            “Does the statue up lift and give hope, comfort, solace? Does it show love and reverence or instill honor of their sacrifice?”

            Does to me. You don’t agree? Well, art is in the eye of the beholder. Are you the appointed judge of what is and is not sufficiently pleasing imagery as to be permissible? That’s quite a mantle. Where’d you come by it?

          • Amos Moses

            him:”i think every religion draws the line at evil.”
            you:”Absolutely. So where is the evil in this statue? ”

            nope ……….. not even close ……….

          • Colin Rafferty

            Exactly. There is no evil there.

          • Amos Moses

            so when the religion of the Incas made human sacrifice on the tops of their pyramids …… cutting peoples hearts out of their bodies while they were still beating …….. not evil …….. did i get that correct ……….

          • Colin Rafferty

            No, that’s evil. But that has nothing to do with the Satanic Temple, so I’m not sure what your point is.

          • Amos Moses

            this was the order of the conversation …….

            him:”i think every religion draws the line at evil.”
            you:”Absolutely……..”

            so what you said as an “Absolutely” statement was not true ……….

          • Colin Rafferty

            Fine. Whatever.

          • TamLin

            Well I’ll hand it to you, you really stuck it to those ancient Incas.

          • TheLastHonestLawyer

            That was the Aztecs. Only off by about a thousand miles.

          • Amos Moses

            k …….

        • Amos Moses

          nope ……….

  • Ontos

    Let them have it, it serves as a good symbol of the futility of humanism

    • Amos Moses

      interesting that they chose a big black cube ….. ala the Kaaba …….. too funny ……..

      • getstryker

        Don’t forget the symbolism of the inverted helmet . . . the edges are a ‘roost for pigeons’
        . . . the bottom of the helmet filled with the symbolic ‘doctrine of demons’ – how apropos!

        • Amos Moses

          yep …. “but they do not worship satan” …. riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight ……….

  • Reason2012

    Satanism is an anti-Christian hate group. They take the evil part, anti-God, anti-Christ part of Christianity (satan) and pretend to lift that up. They can trivially be denied such a monument as they’re a hate group, not a religion that is worshiping any sort of god.

    • Colin Rafferty

      Actually, as the article mentions, they don’t believe in a literal Satan. They use Satan as a metaphor for questioning, as Lucifer questioned God. But as a metaphor, not in reality.

      Which of the particular parts of their beliefs do you think is hate? Aside from the part of them not being Christian, that is?

      • Reason2012

        Actually, as the article mentions, they don’t believe in a literal Satan.

        As I said, they don’t believe in a god and are worshiping nothing, so they’re not a religion that needs their own monument.

        They use Satan as a metaphor for questioning, as Lucifer questioned God. But as a metaphor, not in reality.

        You can use a ton of things for a “metaphor” for questioning. But they singled out Christianity, the most anti-God, anti-Christ evil entity in it, and pretend to lift him up, to want to build monuments to him, which makes them an anti-Christian hate group: mocking Christians by trying to lift up satan, while claiming they are not lifting up satan, that “oh, it’s just about questioning”.

        • Colin Rafferty

          They are not mocking Christianity. If you feel mocked, it’s not their fault.

          They choose Satan because they are American, and Lucifer is a well-know figure in the US, so it can resonate with people. Like it or not, he’s a secular figure as well, and his story is very well-known.

          Actually, which literary figure do you personally think would serve best as someone who is willing to question everything? I personally can’t think of a more effective character.

          And what you really seem to miss in all this, even though you say it, is that they don’t think that there is such a being as Satan. So they are cannot be lifting him up, because he does not exist (according to them).

          • Sisyphus

            Satan is a concept in Christianity, so it is understandable their position is they don’t believe, but as you said, Satanism is arguably an apropos representation of their position. Apparently they’ve succeeded in shaking up the god fearing farmers of Belle Plaine.

          • Amos Moses

            pretty much every culture the world over recognizes a serpent or snake god …… even those that have absolutely no connection to christianity or judaism …….

          • Sisyphus

            Exactly, pretty much every culture, the world over, has implemented some type of religion with some representation of evil. None of which is superior or more correct than another. The name Satan is, however, a Christian representation of that evil.

          • Amos Moses

            “Exactly, pretty much every culture, the world over, has implemented some type of religion with some representation of evil. ”

            it is all the same god ……… satan may change his name …. he cannot change his nature …… he is the same the world over ……… BUT not all religions are the same …… christianity makes unique claims …. all the rest do the samething ……. that is why one of them is true …… the rest are false …. satan, by whatever name he uses, controls all the rest ….. satan drives, Christ LEADS ……….

          • Sisyphus

            You are claiming the Christian concepts of good and evil to be definitive? Also not sure I get the anthropomorphization of abstract concepts as in Satan = He. Please explain.

          • Amos Moses

            no claim ….. historical record ….. satan goes by many names …… his evil is not always rejected ……. it is frequently embraced ……..

          • Sisyphus

            “historical record” = petitio principii

          • Amos Moses

            sure … whatever ……

        • TamLin

          “As I said, they don’t believe in a god and are worshiping nothing, so they’re not a religion that needs their own monument.”

          Belief and worship in a god is not a prerequisite to being a religion. Lots of legally recognized religions in the world have no god concept at all. Further, this limited public forum is for any group to erect a monument, not just religious ones, so even if you were right it wouldn’t matter.

          And the monument is not “their own,” it’s the veterans’. That’s the entire concept of a monument, I believe.

          “The Bible is where satan is written about, just like Jesus, and Moses and more.”

          Actually, the Talmud is where Satan and Moses are written. If ancient Christians can borrow a few names and characters from the holy writings of the Jewish people, it only seems fair that modern Satanists can borrow a name from yours. Turnabout and all that.

          Why not use a scientist, you say? Well, why stop at just one scientist instead of the patron of science, since “the man of science owes his heritage to what had for hundreds of years been relegated to Devildom?”

          After all, “Every fact of science was once damned. Every invention was considered impossible. Every discovery was a nervous shock to some orthodoxy. Every artistic innovation was denounced as fraud and folly. The entire web of culture and ‘progress,’ everything on earth that is man-made and not given to us by nature, is the concrete manifestation of some man’s refusal to bow to Authority.”

          In any case, since when must we answer to others for our spiritual gratification? If I demanded of the Catholic whey he’s not a Baptist and the Baptist why he’s not a Mormon and the Mormon why he’s not a Muslim, would they have to craft answers to please me? They never have so far. When you can get all of them to answer for that, then question me next, but not before.

          • Reason2012

            Belief and worship in a god is not a prerequisite to being a religion. Lots of legally recognized religions in the world have no god concept at all.

            Since you claim there are “lots”, cite 10 that are legally recognized here in America as being legally recognized as a religion and back up your claim, proving they worship no god and do not go to any church.

            this limited public forum is for any group to erect a monument, not just religious ones, so even if you were right it wouldn’t matter.

            They’re demanding it be put up on religious grounds.

            And the monument is not “their own,” it’s the veterans’. That’s the entire concept of a monument, I believe.

            Please prove the veterans want a satanic monument.

            Actually, the Talmud is where Satan and Moses are written.

            OT / NT – part of Christianity. So if they’re hatefully mocking Jews instead that makes it ok? They’re telling Jews that if they demand Jewish monuments be put up, instead of what they do point out: the cross (Christianity / Jesus), then satanic monuments will be put up? No, they point out Jesus / the cross / Christianity.

            If ancient Christians can borrow a few names and characters from the holy writings of the Jewish people

            Jesus pointed out that the Talmud / OT wrote about Him, and it does: the Messiah. Jews rejecting CHrist as that Messiah doesn’t mean He is not and that the Talmud is not about Christ / Christianity.

            Why stop at just one scientist or one pupil when we have the original patron of science, skepticism, education, and reason to represents that scientist and every other since the dawn of time to venerate instead?

            Please cite scientific advances that satan has supposedly made. He’s the father of lying, of rejecting God and Christ, not the father of science.

            After all, “Every fact of science was once damned.

            Please prove that every single fact of science was once damned. Every single one of them.

            And science has spent thousands of years trying to catch up to the scientific facts in the Bible, finally catching up in the 1890s. Easily searchable.

            In any case, since when must we answer to others for our spiritual gratification?

            It’s not about spiritual gratification. It’s about God creating us and creation around us, and judgment coming for our lifetime of breaking His laws countless times. False religions do not make God’s truth and less true. But atheists’ hate for God leaves them without excuse, as people that really do not believe something don’t waste a moment of their time on it -atheists waste hours on that obsession daily and go out of their way to also pretend to lift up satan. Their hate for God is evidence. Agnostics are the honest ones who actually do not believe (yet).

          • TamLin

            Wait, why ten? Did I even say there were that many? You think there’s not even one. Clearly you don’t know any Jains or Quaker Friends or Charvaka Hindus, or even any atheistic Jews. No legal standard of religion prescribes any particular set of beliefs onto the believers–indeed, imagine what a tizzy people would throw if the courts ever started trying to tell you which beliefs “count” or not.

            “They’re demanding it be put up on religious grounds.”

            So what? Even if you were right and a judge came down from on high and declared the Satanic Temple irreligious, the monument would go right into the same place anyway.

            “Please prove the veterans want a satanic monument.”

            I’ve spoken to Minnesotan veterans who are Satanic Temple members myself. Your horizons are apparently too narrow for such things, but lucky you’re not the arbiter on these matters.

            “OT / NT – part of Christianity. So if they’re hatefully mocking Jews instead that makes it ok?”

            I see nothing mocking in the Satanic Temple’s tenets or practices. Indeed, I’m impressed by their sincerity. In any case, your declaration that “The Bible is where Satan is written about” is factually incorrect–or more precisely, incomplete. Early Christians lifted the concept of Satan (and almost all of their holy texts) from previous generations of Jews, and now someone else has lifted Satan off of them. Such is life.

            “They’re telling Jews that if they demand Jewish monuments be put up, instead of what they do point out: the cross (Christianity / Jesus), then satanic monuments will be put up? No, they point out Jesus / the cross / Christianity.”

            If any Jewish group tried erecting a marker on public land the Satanic Temple would do the same. Of course, in practice it’s almost always America’s Christian population that tries to butt into such things. But whose fault is that?

            “Please cite scientific advances that satan has supposedly made. He’s the father of lying, of rejecting God and Christ, not the father of science.”

            Au contrair! The list of great scientific insights that have been credited to the devil by superstitious zealots is too long to even broach: heliocentric theory, anesthesia, the Big Bang, Darwin’s Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection, vaccination, Bruno’s cosmology, Servetus’ pulmonary dissertations, Artistotle’s physics–it’s all been condemned as heresy, blasphemy, the work of the devil.

            Even today people right here on this very site will tell you that the world is flat and Satan is tricking you if you believe otherwise. For all I know you’re one of them.

            “Please prove that every single fact of science was once damned. Every single one of them.”

            Clearly you’re not familiar with RA Wilson. Just as well.

            “And science has spent thousands of years trying to catch up to the scientific facts in the Bible, finally catching up in the 1890s. Easily searchable.”

            Name ten. Since you like that figure so much.

            “It’s not about spiritual gratification. It’s about God creating us and creation around us, and judgment coming for our lifetime of breaking His laws countless times.”

            Well, I don’t believe in god, simple as that. But you don’t have to explain to me why you do, because no one has to answer to me for their beliefs. And no Satanist has to answer to you for theirs.

      • Amos Moses

        “Actually, as the article mentions, they don’t believe in a literal Satan.”

        whats funny is that you think that matters ….. even if it is true ………..

        • Colin Rafferty

          In the context of calling the group evil, yes it does matter. Do you think they are evil, and if so, why?

          • Amos Moses

            gee ….. if they say they are “satanic” ….. whether they believe it or not ….. is reason enough …… there exists the idea of who that is and its characteristics …….. and this is what they have chosen to identify themselves ……….. people do not just decide on things willy nilly …. there is reason behind what they say and do ……….

          • Colin Rafferty

            Your definition of “satanic” and theirs are different. Because you have a different religion than they do.

            So you are basically saying that if they believed in your Satan, then they’d be evil. But they don’t, so they’re not.

          • Amos Moses

            no …….. this is not a difference of definition ………….. the definition is not what they believe it to be …… it is what it has been ……. they do not get to change it at their whim …….. and just because they do does not make it valid ……….. satan is evil with or without our belief in him …… satan does not care one wit if we believe in him or not ……. his goal is disbelief in the true God ….. one way or the other these people are mission accomplished …… stupidity does not protect anyone from the truth ……….

          • Colin Rafferty

            So the problem you have with them is that they misused the name “Satan”.

            I know it’s hard to believe, but I can tell you that 100% of people who are not Christian have a different definition than you do of “Satan”. To start, they don’t believe he exists.

            Just as I am certain that you have a different definition of “Vishnu” than the billion Hindus.

          • Amos Moses

            no ….. they have not “misused” it at all ……

            “but I can tell you that 100% of people who are not Christian have a different definition than you do of “Satan”.”

            so what ………. does not change the truth …… the entire world can all believe the same lie ….. BUT IT IS STILL A LIE ………….. and it only makes them all liars ………..

          • Colin Rafferty

            Please correct me if I am misunderstanding you. The lie you speak of is that they are rejecting the reality of Satan. That’s their lie?

            So really, the problem you have is that they don’t follow your religion. So is everyone evil who doesn’t follow your religion, or only those people who use your religious themes in a different way than your religion does?

          • TamLin

            “there exists the idea of who that is and its characteristics”

            An idea no Satanic Temple member subscribes to. No one in the Satanic Temple is interested in your definition of their beliefs, any more than you’d be vice versa.

          • Amos Moses

            and satanists do not lie ……….. WRONG ……. satanist but not really a satanist …… self-contradiction …….. lie ………

          • TamLin

            “Satanists lie.”

            Do they? What makes you think the Satanic Temple is lying about their goals and tenets? That’s a pretty serious charge, and I certainly don’t see anything here to substantiate it, and you’ve notably declined to corroborate the allegation.

            Religious bigotry is an ugly, ugly look. Seems like you really ought to grow up.

            “satanist but not really a satanist”

            Of course they’re “really Satanists,” that’s why they’re called that. You just don’t know what that word really means. There’s a lot you don’t know, from the looks of things. Your comments are rambling and incoherent, your use of English suggests only quasi-literacy, and you showcase your ignorance without a hint of shame or self-awareness every time you set hands to keyboards. It’s an embarrassing display.

          • Amos Moses

            we do not worship satan ….. we just work for him …… a difference with no difference ….. and it is a lie ……….. common sense is not a gift …. it is a curse …. because you have to deal with all the people who do not have it ………..

          • TamLin

            More baseless accusations. No one at the Satanic Temple “works for” Satan; Satan is a myth and no one can be in his employ.

            You say “it is a lie,” but you’ve offered no evidence for your libelous allegations. That makes you the liar here.

          • Amos Moses

            when they turn people away from the true God ….. that is the work of satan ……….

            “Satan is a myth and no one can be in his employ.”

            interesting statement ….. is that scientific, or is that theological ……. and how did you prove that …..

          • TamLin

            What’s that, is the liar asking me questions now?

            Sorry liar, no answers for you. You can’t be trusted to be honest about whatever you learn, so why bother?

          • Amos Moses

            then take a hike miss or mister liar …………. see ya ….. would not want to be ya …… dont let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya ………… and i notice you cannot answer ….. and even if you did ….. you would be evasive or just lie outright ….. as you already have ……….

          • electedbyHim

            John 15:18 “If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you.
            John 15:19 “If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.
            You are blessed my friend.

  • R.C. Gerber

    Satan doesn’t care if you acknowledge him as Satan or a laughing Hyena or nothing at all. His goal is to do, say and be anything that will keep you away from God and Jesus Christ.

    • R.C. Gerber

      That being said, I see that at least the birds will have a new bath tub.

  • Amos Moses

    Racist Note That Led to Protests, Cancelled Class at St. Olaf’s College Was ‘Fabricated’

    again …… minnesota has become a cesspool ………

  • Chet

    Shame on those folks who removed the cross out of fear and trepidation of some harmless Devil inspired group of nobody’s… It’s high time the church or body of Christ stand strong in the face of liberal anti God anti Christ forces. You’ve nothing to lose in daring to be a Daniel and should so stand and watch how the hand of the Lord moves in the matter. Stand Up, Stand Up For Jesus Ye Soldiers Of The Cross…