Appeals Court Unanimously Rules Wisconsin School District Must Allow Girl in Boys’ Restroom

MILWAUKEE, Wisc. — The Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals has unanimously ruled that a Wisconsin school district must allow a girl who identifies as a boy to use the boys’ restroom, concluding that the prohibition would likely cause “irreparable harm.”

“A transgender student’s presence in the restroom provides no more of a risk to other students’ privacy rights than the presence of an overly curious student of the same biological sex who decides to sneak glances at his or her classmates,” Judge Ann Claire Williams, nominated to the bench by then-President Bill Clinton, wrote on behalf of the three-judge, all-female panel.

“Further, if the school district’s concern is that a child will be in the bathroom with another child who does not look anatomically the same, then it would seem that separate bathrooms also would be appropriate for pre‐pubescent and post‐pubescent children who do not look alike anatomically,” she said. “But the school district has not drawn this line.”

Judge Diane Wood, also nominated by Bill Clinton, and Ilana Rovner, nominated to the bench by then-President George H.W. Bush, joined Williams in the decision.

As previously reported, Ashton Whitaker, 16, sued the Kenosha Unified School District No. 1 and Superintendent Sue Savaglio-Jarvis in July for being denied use of the boys’ restroom and for continuing to be referred to by her feminine name. Her attorneys contended the acts violate Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972 and the Equal Protection Clause of the U.S. Constitution.

Whitaker’s complaint, filed by the Transgender Law Center and Relman, Dane and Colfax PLLC, alleged that officials at Tremper High School told her that she must either use the girls’ restroom or a single occupancy restroom in the school office.

The following year, she surreptitiously began using the boys’ restroom, but was spotted by a teacher months later and again instructed to use the girls’ restroom or the lavatory in the office.

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Whitaker then sought to avoid using the restroom at all at school, but said that limiting her fluids caused medical issues. She continued, however, to use the boys’ restroom at school in defiance of the district policy.

In July, she filed suit against the district to gain entry into her preferred restroom, citing the suffrage of post-traumatic stress disorder from her gender dysphoria and the school’s requirements. U.S. District Judge Pamela Pepper, nominated to the bench by then-President Barack Obama, ruled in her favor.

“There’s no question that Ash has already suffered harm and has had physical repercussions from the policy, as well as emotional repercussions,” she wrote.

The district appealed, and on Wednesday, the Seventh Circuit affirmed the decision, contending that boys’ restrooms have stalls and that all Whitaker needs to do is close the door on her stall.

“Common sense tells us that the communal restroom is a place where individuals act in a discreet manner to protect their privacy and those who have true privacy concerns are able to utilize a stall,” the three female judges wrote. “Nothing in the record suggests that the bathrooms at Tremper High School are particularly susceptible to an intrusion upon an individual’s privacy.”

The court also opined that because no students had complained during the six months Whitaker had used the men’s restroom, no harms had been proven.

Reports note that as Whitaker is scheduled to graduate this week, the ruling will have little impact on her at this point. It might, however, significantly affect future cases both in the Seventh Circuit and across the country.

The Kenosha Unified School District says that it is disappointed in the decision. As previously reported, Whitaker had previously fought her school district for prohibiting her from running for prom king. Officials relented in the matter.


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  • Reason2012

    The Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals has unanimously ruled that a Wisconsin school district must allow a girl who identifies as a boy to use the boys’ restroom, concluding that the prohibition would likely cause “irreparable harm.”

    While not caring about the “irreparable harm” that everyone else’s kids and grandkids will go through being FORCED to go to the bathroom with someone of the opposite gender just because they’re playing make believe.
    Sue the school and have the judge removed: they sacrifice the well-being of everyone else to bow down to the perverse demands of a select few.

    • Ambulance Chaser

      Clearly, you so vehemently disagree with the Circuit Court of Appeals’ ruling that you think not only that the ruling should be overturned, but that the judges should be fired (a standard that quite literally is almost NEVER achieved for any reason).

      Let me ask you then: which portion of the ruling do you think the Circuit Court got wrong? That the court should assert pendent jurisdiction over the district court’s decision to deny its motion to dismiss or that the district court erred in granting Ash’s motion for preliminary injunction?

      • Oboehner

        Let me ask you then: will little miss nut-job be using the urinal? Would little miss nut-job be using the facilities exactly the same if she was in her own bathroom? Is she unable to poop in her own bathroom? Why does the wants of one nut-job trump those of all the others who wish to use the restroom based on their physical make-up (which is the reason for having two different bathrooms)?

        • Ambulance Chaser

          There’s no one named “Little Miss Nut-Job” in this story. Come back to me when you’re willing to have a civil, mature discussion.

          • Chris

            “There’s no one named “Little Miss Nut-Job” in this story.”

            You win the internets sir. Lol

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Well thank you very much. I’ll take that win today, but yesterday was yours 🙂

          • nojack

            You’re blinded by Satan!

          • rubellapox2

            No you are… not even aware how deep he or she has it’s hooks in you….

          • Oboehner

            You must accept that as I identify as blunt, so instead of skirting just answer the question as you and I both know, you know what I’m talking about.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            If you want to know about gender dysphoria, there’s a wealth of information available online. A good place to start is Lambda Legal’s FAQ on bathroom usage by transgender people.

          • Oboehner

            I had specific questions for you, afraid to answer?

          • Ambulance Chaser

            No, you don’t have “questions.” If you had questions you’d go looking for the answers from experts in the field. What you have are sneering accusations.

          • Oboehner

            You thought yourself expert enough to comment, but somehow simple common sense questions escape you now.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Maybe if you asked the questions without hateful, sneering contempt, I might.

          • Oboehner

            Excuses, excuses.

        • Nick Bush

          Why do you care about how a child uses the bathroom? Are you some sort of pedophile?

          • nojack

            It’s a matter of morality and decency which you obviously possess neither!

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Or maybe his definitions of morality and decency differ from yours.

          • Nick Bush

            Funny, I would think that not caring about genitals would be the more moral and decent thing to do.

          • Oboehner

            Are you saying the courts are pedophiles?

          • Oboehner

            I like how you people can’t answer simple questions, you just resort to stupidity.

          • rureadymatt24.39

            circular reasoning which in itself is full of fallacies (obvious failure)

          • Oboehner

            Red herring is also a fallacy.

        • Parodyx

          “Little miss nut-job”

          Feel the Christian love.

      • rureadymatt24.39

        your arguments are so flawed. Reason2012 is talking about the harm such a ruling will have harm. Your argument is to psychologically couch it, and minimize the real problems. Why? Why do you insist that that the majority of the public must bow to the minority’s who want gender “rights”? Such thinking goes into anarchy where there are no laws and where people live as they please. Should we review the destruction of Rome in history? Why did Rome get destroyed? Go study history because your thinking will end you up where Rome got destroyed (do you wish to repeat history?)

        • Ambulance Chaser

          I didn’t say any of that. You expressed an opinion about a matter of federal civil procedure and now I’m asking you to back it up. Which you seem unable to do.

        • rubellapox2

          Rome fell not too long after Christianity became the official religion under Constantine… think about that….

          • rureadymatt24.39

            Wow, your history lessons failed! Rome fell because of moral decay from within. Just as our country is repeating the same history of Rome. Our country is being destroyed by moral decay, which you promote.

          • rubellapox2

            Rome fell after Christianity became the official religion… not immediately and it was not the only cause, but that is historically correct….

  • bowie1

    I suppose the boys might want to use the stalls while she is present, instead of the urinals, if they feel embarrassed. I use them anyway in any public place just for the sake of privacy.

    • Peter Leh

      You think she is using the standup urinal?

      https://media.giphy. com/media/3owzWnrTXIh7j1Xz9K/giphy.gif

      • bowie1

        I think that would be pretty hard unless she took off her pants and stood real close and hope her aim is good.

        • Peter Leh

          yep… lol

          see the link?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            USA’s greatest tragedy – men fight for money but not to protect their own tribal girls.

          • Colin Rafferty

            The are protecting the girls by having this boy in the boys room.

          • rureadymatt24.39

            sarcasm? She doesn’t have the boy parts to be a threat. Let’s think basic anatomy problems with the absurd. However, she will get teased by those boys, and such teasing and upset by the boys will lead to the obvious. But, forgetting this girl’s mental problems-how is this an argument for imposing a LAW on the general public????

          • Colin Rafferty

            Yes, I was being a little sarcastic and teasing a little. But based on the truth. It would be inappropriate for him to use the girls’ bathroom, because he is a boy mentally. Just not physically.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            She should be educated to live as a girl – the only truth about her. Boys get humiliated because of her presence, one selfish girl. She should think about keeping other boys’ honor as boys.

          • Colin Rafferty

            I prefer to let people live as they are, rather than trying to “fix” them. And if other people are unhappy about what someone else is, that’s their problem.

            The other boys should treat him as the boy that he is, and not impose their own ignorant views on him.

            In general, my belief is that the majority should not be imposing its will on the minority, but should be accommodating to the minority.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            People are born-sinners and if they are left alone, they become destructive. Today’s Gay West is the mega proof. She is a girl and not a boy. Objective truth is what it counts, not majority or minority’s opinions or feelings. Current Western attitude creates slavery. Any and every installment of falsehood is villains’ usual tactics to establish slavery. Americans should know that.

          • rureadymatt24.39

            it is so sad that they are so bent on moral decay that they can’t see that God is about to judge America. The red moons are warnings for what is to come. Soon destruction will come. The Bible says that daughter of Babylon will be destroyed in one hour. Yet, no repentance? Oh, when those who are bent on such rebellion before God have to give account, there truly will be gnashing of teeth. Be warned, America! Prosperous times will soon come to an end. The Bible speaks of: famine, pestilence, earthquakes (yes, in America), economic collapse….oh, people, open your eyes because God will not continue to allow this behavior. Fast and pray to seek His face. He will answer a sincere heart. The time of grace is about to end.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Yes, we will pray, evangelize, and fight together to the end as we are commanded to do so. The Lord will conclude our world. It’s a great comfort to know His justice is on the way.

          • George O’Donnell

            It’s been 2000 years. Jesus told his followers he would return within a lifetime. It ain’t happening.

          • Pied Piper

            I just seen a red moon several days ago.

          • rureadymatt24.39

            you must be single and without children because no mentally sane dad would speak those words.

          • Colin Rafferty

            Wrong on all three counts. I raise my children to be true to themselves, rather than forcing them to conform to the way narrow-minded bigots want them to feel.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Did you miss the part where literally NO OTHER STUDENTS have a problem with this situation?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            No, she is a girl. You guys think it’s only amusing. Humiliated boys lose manliness in the future. You guys are ruining your own homeland. Having no morality means being suicidal.

        • rureadymatt24.39

          And, what woman have you ever seen do that? I guess not having the right equipment will be a problem.

        • rureadymatt24.39

          I tried that when I was young, tried to pee with the boys. Um, nope, it didn’t work. (he,he)

  • Trilemma

    Ashton will not be using the urinals but a stall. Ashton has the bigger privacy concern since some boys will intentionally expose themselves while others will try to peek through the cracks in the stall. I don’t think bathroom use is that big of a deal. Locker rooms and showers are a much bigger concern.

  • sammy13

    So if she/he has to do a number 1 I am assuming she/he will use a urinal? And save the toilets for good old number 2?

    • Michael C

      Do you often spend your time pondering how others use the bathroom? …and you think this trans kid is the sick one?

    • TheLastHonestLawyer

      I’m a born, cis-gendered man. Because I use a wheelchair, I use the stalls for everything. Until this young man completes transitioning he will lack the equipment to properly use a stand-up urinal.

      I have a question for you: a solider loses his genitalia in an IED explosion. He can no longer urinate standing up. Is he, in your eyes, male?

      • Ambulance Chaser

        That’s a great question. I may have to start using it 🙂

        • Amos Moses

          great red herring ………..

          • Parodyx

            Do you dare answer it?

          • TheLastHonestLawyer

            No, this is about gender identity. I wouldn’t expect you to have a decent anbswer, as I’ve given up on you have a thought reply to anything.

          • Amos Moses

            no it is not … it is about SIN ……………

          • TheLastHonestLawyer

            Which is a concept not recognized in our court system. In my old faith, you eating a pepperoni pizza would be a mortal insult to Allah. The Puritans outlawed celebrating Christmas down to fining people for daring sing.

            Do you consider either to be a sin?

            There are 613 laws given in the Old Testament. More in the New. If I asked you to wire me $20, would you send me $40? If you don’t, Jesus says you are a sinner.

            If you’re not going to ever answer a question, don’t bother answering. Oh, and for amusement, I’m counting all the extra periods you use in June. At the end of the month, I’m going to send $1 for each extra period to a charity of my choice.

          • Amos Moses

            “Which is a concept not recognized in our court system.”

            WE are not in court …… we are having a conversation …. on a christian site ….. about things that are of interest to christians …… on a christian forum ……. and SIN is always on the table ……….. maybe you need to check your head space and timing and figure out where you are ….. and what the topic is ……. and always is ………….. Christ …. and salvation ………

          • TheLastHonestLawyer

            The story is about a court case, so yes, we are having a conversation about that case.

            Excuse me, I am having a conversation. You are evading, hiding, and pretending that you have anything relevant to say.

            Oddly, you don’t get to set the terms of debate. When discussing the law, there are two lawyers (at least) posting here that you ignore. You are wrong. Learn to live with it.

            And please learn what an ellipsis is (. . . ) and when to use it. Your posts are painful to read, I get better from my grandson, and he’s two.

          • Amos Moses

            we are on a christian forum …. the topic is salvation and repentance and sin ……… which door do you choose ……..

          • Amos Moses

            “Oddly, you don’t get to set the terms of debate.”

            christianity is not up for debate ……….

            again ….. objection as to form noted ….. i do not care …………..

      • bowie1

        I would say he would be considered a eunuch.

  • Sven

    Always trying to be the California of the Midwest.

    The court needs to be horsewhipped. Ditto for the mom.

    • Ambulance Chaser

      OK, since Reason2012 didn’t answer me, I’ll ask you. What part of the Court’s ruling do you disagree with? The pendent jurisdiction over the district court’s denial of Defendant’s 12(b)(6) motion or that the district court erred in granting Appellee’s motion for a preliminary injunction?

      • rureadymatt24.39

        it should have been thrown out of court! Stop trying to intimidate with you poor reasoning.

        • Ambulance Chaser

          What’s my “poor reasoning?” I didn’t make an argument, I asked a question.

          • rureadymatt24.39

            really? For some reason you keep taking all arguments as if it were a personal attack. Why? A question mark in your “statement” means you are asking a question (basic English rules).

        • TheLastHonestLawyer

          OK, what is your legal argument in asking for a dismissal?

          • rureadymatt24.39

            This shouldn’t even be given ten seconds in the court. Imposing a LAW on the entire population because of a girl that has mental problems is to make the majority subject to the minority? If you really think this is reasonable, then something is seriously wrong with your reasoning.

          • TheLastHonestLawyer

            What law is being imposed? This young man is simply allowed to use the bathroom that matches the gender he identifies as, and is transitioning into.

            By the way, the entire point of the Bill of Rights is to protect the rights of the minority against the majority.

          • rureadymatt24.39

            and, the rights of the minority should be imposed on the majority? really? Do you know what happened in the history of Rome? What destroyed Rome?

          • TheLastHonestLawyer

            In the West? The Migration Age coupled with an over-reliance on imported grain.

            In the East? A long military decline starting with the Battle of Manzikert (1071) which was accelerated by the Latin Empire of the 13th century and the refusal of the Catholic west to aid Constantinople against the Ottoman Turks.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Half of this case is about a motion to dismiss. It was denied. If you disagree with that denial, tell us where the District Court erred.

    • TheLastHonestLawyer

      Show me where Jesus said “attack anyone who disagrees with you with great violence.”

      • Amos Moses

        well there were those two incidents at the temple where He knotted a cord and cleared out the money changers from His Fathers house …… who had turned into a den of iniquity …………..

        • TheLastHonestLawyer

          Which he did, and were confined to the temple grounds. Tell me when he told his followers to attack anyone they disagreed with.

          Because I can give you a small mountain of citations to where he said the exact opposite.

          Why is it so hard for all of you to actually do what Jesus taught?

          • Amos Moses

            you are talking about a physical attack or some other thing …… you seem to be mixing the topic to sow confusion ….. Christ attacked the Pharisees with rigor and honesty ………

            Matthew
            12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
            12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
            12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
            12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
            12:38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
            12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

            Matthew
            23:19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
            23:20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
            23:21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
            23:22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.
            23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
            23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
            23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
            23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
            23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness.
            23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
            23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
            23:30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
            23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
            23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
            23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
            23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
            23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
            23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
            23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chicken under her wings, and ye would not!
            23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
            23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

          • TheLastHonestLawyer

            I see you’ve fallen back to “block o’ Bible” in lieu of an argument. But let’s get back to what Sven wrote:

            “The court needs to be horsewhipped. Ditto for the mom.”

            Horsewhipping is a pretty barbaric assault that can kill. He didn’t say rigor and honesty, he called for a violent physical attack.. and you supported them saying you yourself would horsewhip them if you had a horse.

            I predict you’ll now do your usual thing and claim it was a joke.

            So I ask again, can you show me where Jesus said to violently assault those you disagree with using items that can kill. Chapter, and verse. Or admit that the calls for violence are not Christian.

          • Amos Moses

            actually …. it was Groucho Marx ….. yeah ….. i am that kind of Marxist …… again ….. i will be happy to buy you that sense of humor ……….. but the limit is $50 …………

            Why, I’d horse-whip you if I had a horse. Groucho Marx
            Read more at: brainyquote;com/quotes/quotes/g/grouchomar143372.html
            – change the ; to a .

    • Amos Moses

      i would horse whip them ….. if i had a horse ……….

      • rureadymatt24.39

        and God will do more than that, as the story of Sodom and Gomorrah is destruction by fire for such.

  • Nidalap

    Once we would have sought to help those afflicted with mental problems like these.
    Now, because this particular malady is linked with a sexual perversion, it is encouraged, to the detriment of those so afflicted…

    • Ambulance Chaser

      We are helping them. We help them by treating them as the gender they identify with.

      • Amos Moses

        and they still commit suicide at the same rate …. GOOD ONE …. big help ……..

        • Ambulance Chaser

          Cite, please.

          • Amos Moses

            google is your friend …..

          • Ambulance Chaser

            No, it’s YOUR friend. You make the claim, you provide the evidence. It’s not my responsibility to prove your claim for you.

          • Amos Moses

            i do not play the “you show me yours and i will show you mine” game ……… if you do not want to learn …. its on you …….. see ya ………..

        • Peter Leh

          Citation please?

          how many have been killed according to the Bible?

  • cadcoke5

    It is certainly time to dismantle the entire public school system as it is now. Both public school edu-crats, and judges, have mandated a lot of very bad things for the schools over the years.

    Rather, the U.S. should do the same as they do for college students. Provide vouchers for each student to go to any school their parents want. This will permit some, who otherwise wouldn’t have the money, to escape this madness.

    • Chris

      That way the poor kids can get an even more substandard of education while the rich kids get an even better one.

      Also a voucher program would constitute a breach of your establishment clause.

      • cadcoke5

        The establishment clause does not prevent a college student from using Pell grants to attend a religious college. If it did, then the government would be showing a preference for God-less education if not outright Atheism.

        There should not be any difference between using vouchers for secondary or primary education.

        • Chris

          There is no such thing as God-less education. There is secular education which allows the students to believe as they will but doesn’t try to influence said belief.

          • cadcoke5

            Yet, the schools are quite dogmatic about certain items. Any description of how everything came to be, must be faithful to omit God. This philosophy is included in other subjects, like history and psychology.

            To borrow a phrase from Issac Asimov, this is the “Practical Atheist” faith. This practical atheism demands that any alternative explanation for how things came to be are treated as heresy, and in many situations, a teacher that even mentions these alternative ideas (e.g. God) are thrown out as heretics.

            In regards to the subject of this article, the public school religion often demands that all teachers must submit to calling a male student female if he wants it that way. Students must submit to having the opposite gender in their lockers and showers. This is required because they mandate that they behave as though there is no God to dictate gender or morals.

          • Colin Rafferty

            Actually, public schools are agnostic about God, and will teach anything in science that has objective proof. For example, when they teach about how the Earth was formed, they say it is 4.5 billion years old because there is objective proof of it. They don’t give it an age of 6000 years because there is clear evidence that it is incorrect.

            On the other hand, they will discuss all manners of creation stories in history class, because it is very important to understand the religious beliefs behind various cultures. They just fail to teach them as facts, since each of them is so clearly disprovable.

            If there was objective proof that involved a god intervening in the universe, we’d teach it.

          • Chris

            “Yet, the schools are quite dogmatic about certain items. Any description of how everything came to be, must be faithful to omit God. This philosophy is included in other subjects, like history and psychology.”

            If you’re talking about evolution it has NOTHING to do with the origin of life. Abiogenesis deals with that. In both cases what you’re talking about is science. Isn’t science supposed to be taught in a science class?

            “To borrow a phrase from Issac Asimov, this is the “Practical Atheist” faith.”

            Really? So why are their scientists who are Christians and study this stuff? Shouldn’t they have lost their faith by now? The fact is science says NOTHING about the existence of God. Nothing at all.

            “This practical atheism demands that any alternative explanation for how things came to be are treated as heresy, and in many situations, a teacher that even mentions these alternative ideas (e.g. God) are thrown out as heretics.”

            Not even close. Science ‘demands’ that all alternate ideas be backed by evidence and use the scientific method. Most especially that any alternate hypothesis be falsifiable. What evidence would you accept as falsifying creationism?

            “In regards to the subject of this article, the public school religion often demands that
            all teachers must submit to calling a male student female if he wants it that way.”

            I am a teacher and I could care less if that was required of me. At the start of the school year we have to learn the names of all our students. It takes just as much effort to call a student ‘Jack’ as to call them Jacqueline’.

            “Students must submit to having the opposite gender in their lockers and showers.”

            Once again – so what?

            “This is required because they mandate that they behave as though there is no God to dictate gender or morals.”

            Garbage. This is done for the good of the student. Many of the teachers who are quite happy to treat students this way are also people of faith – Buddhists, Muslims, Christians, as well as Zoroastrians like me. We are NOT behaving as though there were no God.

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    Wonder how countries like Saudi Arabia would deal with this kind of mentally ill Americans in their restrooms… If she’d go to women’s restrooms in the foreign countries, she should do the same in the West. No double standard.

    • Croquet_Player

      Saudi Arabia still beheads people for “witchcraft”. Their definition of “witchcraft” is awfully loose, but often includes “people whose ideas we generally don’t like”. That might be you. Or me. So if you’re going to hold up Saudi Arabia as some sort of model of sensible justice, please be prepared to defend the idea of yourself or your friends being beheaded in a public square for ideas they hold.

      • Croquet_Player

        Just to make it a bit more clear to you, Saudi Arabia has recently legally declared that “all atheists are terrorists” and therefore due the death penalty. Now, I know you don’t like atheists, and you’re entitled to your opinion. But it might surprise you to know that sometimes under certain (legal, in some countries) circumstances a Muslim person who has converted to Christianity is also sometimes classed as an “atheist”. So while you might hate atheists all you like, you might find a Christian, whom you support, and an atheist whom you despise, sharing the same prison cell, and at risk of death from identical legal circumstances. I’m in favor of people having a right to believe (or not believe) whatever they like. I certainly don’t think people should be put to death for it. You might feel differently. I also don’t think it’s possible to read people’s minds and determine exactly what they think, or to what extent they actually believe it, or don’t. So please don’t bring up the “no true Christian” or “no true atheist” argument.

        • TheLastHonestLawyer

          Which makes me very happy that I performed the Hajj when I was 18. They’d kill me six ways from Sunday now.

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        Saudi Arabia kills Christians for being Christian, but USA is a close friend with such nations. If American liberals have no guts to push their filthy mental illness upon their close friends like Saudi Arabia, they should not do that to their own people, either; that’s my point.

    • yabruf

      That’s because western culture leads the world in depravity.

      • TheLastHonestLawyer

        We’re number one! We’re number one!

        I take it you’ve never seen Japanese anime or manga porn? You’d reconsider that position quickly after the first tentacle shows up.

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        Every nation is depraved and carries barbarisms; some overlap and some others are unique to the region. It’s sad that USA, the former greatest Christendom, became this depraved. Many mimick the West in everything. Western liberals are trying to control the whole mankind by corrupting them by enforcing sexual depravity. May God forbid such disaster.

    • Colin Rafferty

      You are exactly correct. There are so many people in this country that want to humiliate this boy and force him to use the girl’s room. Fortunately, he goes to a school that will not allow that kind of bullying.

      As for him going to foreign countries, I assume he wouldn’t go someplace that would demonize him.

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        She is a girl and not a boy. Some Westerners go for perversion on purpose because they are well-fed and being bored on a melting planet. Enough of atrocities by the bored well-fed West’s mental illness. Be normal by gaining Christian values. The West has no morality apart from Christianity.

        • Colin Rafferty

          You can choose to infer nefarious intent on the rest of the world. Or you can accept that science and society has come a long way since the middle ages.

          He is a boy because in his brain, he is a boy. His external genitalia doesn’t show it, but only ignorant people think that is the most important part of gender.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Society is wrong if it enforces falsehood. She is a girl. God made her a girl. That’s the objective truth.

          • Colin Rafferty

            You may have strong beliefs about this, but science says that you are wrong. Sorry.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Science says she is a girl and transgenderism is a mental defect. USA should take in every Earthling who says he feels like American. If feelings are endorsed, there is no ending to falsehoods and abuses by the mental illness. You guys are doing this only because the West is full and being bored. Secular West does not seek the objective truth like the Christian West did.

          • Colin Rafferty

            Erring on both counts. Science says he is a boy, and psychology does not say transgender is a mental defect.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Science says she is a girl. Reality says transgenderism is either a mental defect or a willful sin. Liberals’ psychology itself is a mental illness. Western whites are too well-fed and seeking warped rebellious sensations and that’s it. Scientists should analyze why this is happening to the Western whites though it’s spreading. West’s Sodomic inclination is a cultural or the era’s barbaric defects.

          • Colin Rafferty

            No, science says he is a boy’s mind in a female body. And if you don’t believe in psychology, that’s an interesting choice, but it’s the best understanding we have of how the mind works. Just as science in general is the best understanding we have of how the world as a whole works.

            You can choose to dislike the findings of science or psychology, but that doesn’t make them wrong. It just makes you unhappy with reality.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            One is a female if the body is female; that’s science. Psychology says Americans prefer perversions because they are well-fed and proud. Read Deuteronomy 32:15. You claim that this girl is a boy only to subdue the poplutaion with falsehood. No submission to mentally ill immoral America. Your nation needs Christianity for sanity.

          • Colin Rafferty

            Which psychological paper says that about Americans? I must have missed that.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Read the Scripture text I gave you. It reveals why America went wrong. The true accurate psychology. Americans must stop forcing their immoral values upon mankind. It’s so evil and destructive.

          • Colin Rafferty

            Ok, thanks. I didn’t realize you meant Biblical Psychology. That explains my misunderstanding. I was talking about science. Never mind.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Science agrees with the Holy Bible and says people are honest and healthy only when they live out the birth gender. Western Sodomites only have fake psychology that goes against reality. You must read Psalm 14 to understand the unbelievers in USA.

          • Colin Rafferty

            That’s an interesting claim you make. You seem to have the references for the Biblical Psychology, but failed to have a reference for the science. Because it’s not true! Science does not say that.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Science says that the birth gender cannot be altered. You’ve been brainwashed by your own false culture. Freedom is for living out the truth and not claiming falsehood. Americans must stop forcing their ways even if they control everything.

          • rureadymatt24.39

            pseudo science fails because it says she who thinks she is of a different gender is a different gender. Israel’s real science came out with evidence that the DNA does not change because one thinks so. Just as thinking you are a cat does not make you a cat. However, there seems to be people who think that. But, should we put litter box, by a Judge’s decision, in bathrooms for those people as well? Should we make a law that requires all businesses to put litter boxes in all bathrooms for those who think they are a cat?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Yes, something we knew all along. I think Western authorities are planning global mental slavery by installation of falsehood this century. Humans who bend God’s Word and compromise a clear conscience submit to any types of villains. Or the childless Western authorities may be planning to reduce the human populatiuon by increasing the number of mentally ill pervs among the nations. They are unwise because a world like Sodom only gets nuked.

            They are so self-destructive. Bending victims’ conscience is the usual tactics of the atheists in communist nations though the communists are not sexual pervs like the secular West is. It’s unprecedented horrible for a human to be bent by Sodomites. It’s been wrong for the Western whites to place the peoples of colors and sexually depraved together. They get horrified at the words of discrimination while blaspheming against Christianity all they want. It’s been wrong all along.

          • Dianne

            Grace, your polluted racist rhetoric against “white westerners ” is getting old and is a VERY POOR WITNESS FOR CHRIST. Shame, shame, shame on YOU!!! God is NOT PLEASED WITH YOUR EVIL WORDS AGAINST WESTERNERS OR WHITE PEOPLE. Your words are UNBIBLICAL. So STOP GRIEVING HIS HOLY SPIRIT WITH your NONSENSE. If it weren’t for WESTERNERS your nation of South Korea would be BRUTALLY swallowed up by the MANIACAL TYRANT Kim Jung On in a flash. If he were to have his way you would be JAILED or EXECUTED for believing in Jesus. Then I’m sure that you would “rue the day” that you continuously LAMBASTED the West. You need to HUMBLE yourself and REPENT for your racist and insensitive condemnation of whites and westerners or God will greatly HUMBLE you!!! Woe unto you if God has to humble you instead of you humbling yourself and change your EVIL accusations.

  • Croquet_Player

    ““A transgender student’s presence in the restroom provides no more of a
    risk to other students’ privacy rights than the presence of an overly
    curious student of the same biological sex who decides to sneak glances
    at his or her classmates,” Judge Ann Claire Williams, nominated to the
    bench by then-President Bill Clinton, wrote on behalf of the three-judge, all-female panel.”

    I find it odd that “all-female” judge panel was singled out. Why should that make any difference? Unless the editors are going to start pointing out “all-male” judge panels, which is usually the case, then what’s the point?

    Here’s the thing. You, me, and everyone else has been using bathrooms all along with transgender people. Like everyone else, they just use the bathroom like everyone else. We can all spot a real “creeper” in the bathroom, and it doesn’t matter what “gender” they are, or were. Frankly, my concerns lie with those weird people who put hidden cameras in bathrooms, gyms, or hotel rooms, in the hopes of filming people in private. Studies show they tend to be overwhelmingly straight males, but I’m not interested in banning straight males from buying tiny cameras on the internet. I am interested in helping employers and police do occasional sweeps of “private” areas, to locate hidden devices, and tracking down creeps who like to post their film on the internet.

  • yabruf

    I’m so sick of hearing about school districts bending over backwards for these sick freaks.
    Kick the perverts out of school instead of forcing the rest of society to suffer through their sick hangups.

    Leviticus 20:13 solves all of these problems.

    • Chris

      “I’m so sick of hearing about school districts bending over backwards for these sick freaks.”

      No fundies are involved in this situation.

  • Chris

    Or, put more accurately – they must allow a TS boy in the boy’s bathroom.

  • nojack

    Christian News Network is NOT Christian! You’re in line the the deceiver, Satan. I won’t be back to your web-rag the doesn’t allow the truth to be spoken. You’re facilitating the Devil himself. God knows the truth and you won’t reveal it! Shame on your deceptive and deceitful ways. May God have mercy on your souls!

    • Peter Leh

      move along

  • Peter Leh

    “Unanimous”

    Means: Repubs And Dems

  • rureadymatt24.39

    so they rejoice that boys are forced to allow girls in their bathrooms?? Since there is no common sense with this (the anatomy needs to be different for those urinals on the walls), there seems to be an unbelievable amount of attention getting techniques for parents to get their kids in the lime light (are parents getting paid for this attention-there must be a reason why parents would encourage their kids to such ridiculous levels like this)? Someone needs to investigate what is in it for these parents who seem to sell off their kids for these political or social propaganda.

    • Ambulance Chaser

      There are no girls in this story. Ash is a boy.

      • bowie1

        Ash with a vagina?

        • Ambulance Chaser

          Yes, he is a boy who was born with female genitalia.

          • rureadymatt24.39

            Don’t we identify gender with the physical components? Since when do we give special rights to those who mentally consider themselves different than their body parts? Rights which are imposed on the population. That poor girl will most likely get raped by using the men’s bathrooms. It is a matter of time for that to happen. Anyone who encourages this is guilty of child abuse.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            “Don’t we identify gender with the physical components?”

            If we do, we’re using an outdated method.

            “Since when do we give special rights to those who mentally consider themselves different than their body parts?”

            We don’t. Boys use the boys’ bathroom.The fact that a boy happens to have been born a girl is irrelevant.

            “That poor girl will most likely get raped by using the men’s bathrooms. It is a matter of time for that to happen.”

            I doubt it, since trans people have been using the boys’ bathrooms since time immemorial and there’s no rash of raping trans men in bathrooms. Probably because A) we don’t know and/or B) most men don’t simply rape everyone who makes them uncomfortable.

          • ppp777

            Your obviously a reprobate .

        • rureadymatt24.39

          notice that Ambulance Chaser can’t argue that this girl was born with BOTH female and male body parts (which might give a little validity to such insanity). So, she is mentally a boy with girl body parts. Really? So, anyone can choose whatever gender they want to be and everyone must comply with insane laws to force the majority to bow down to the minority. How does this effect sports when male trannies are in a boxing ring with women? This is a runaway train of moral decay (the spiritual condition is manifesting in the physical).

          • Ambulance Chaser

            That’s NOT how being trans works. There are plenty of resources online if you’re interested in learning (a shaky proposition, I’ll grant). The American Psychological Association has a pretty comprehensive, plain-language FAQ on it.

          • rureadymatt24.39

            coined phrases of “trans” does not give validity. No minority should be allowed to rule the majority. Again, study your history of Rome!!!

          • Ambulance Chaser

            “coined phrases of “trans” does not give validity.”

            No, the science behind it does. Again, read the science.

          • rureadymatt24.39

            Pseudo science is not real science.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Okay, well let’s see if you’re any better at science than you are at law. Where are the errors in these studies?

          • rureadymatt24.39

            I highly recommend that you study the difference between science and pseudo science.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            I know what the difference is. You, however, seem to think that the difference is based on whether you like the findings.

          • rureadymatt24.39

            your arguments are with pseudo science. Have you seen real science? How about the Israel findings of DNA not being changed by a girl who wants to be a boy? Nope, just because someone wants to change their gender doesn’t change the gender. I guess you will probably try to get the last word, as you seem to find it difficult to walk away from your lose, lose arguments.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            No one is arguing that DNA can be changed, only that gender dysphoria is biologically hardwired and has no cure other than to treat the patient as I haven’t transitioned.

          • rureadymatt24.39

            Israel’s real science is evidence that your psudo science fails.

      • rureadymatt24.39

        The article reads, “Wisconsin school district must allow a girl who identifies as a boy to use the boys’ restroom”.

        • Ambulance Chaser

          Yes, the article misgendered him because the author willfully misunderstands neurobiology.

          • rureadymatt24.39

            “neurobiology” means biology of the brain. So, you are arguing that because someone’s “brain” makes them think they are of a gender different than their body, they should be able to have special “rights” to impose on others (?) So, if I think I am a cat, am I cat? Perhaps, “neurobiology” as you have coined is actually a mental illness, which is a better fit for your argument.

          • DKELforAmerica

            Most of neurobiology studies are actually on the brains found in rats. It is too unethical to actually do the scientific longetitudinal studies on humans, especially infants and children. Something about scientists don’t know enough about the brain and can harm it.

          • rubellapox2

            Nope, they study the human brain.. they have many methods of looking at the human brain, even live ones, without being invasive…

          • Knowledge Transfer

            Well said!

          • Ambulance Chaser

            What I think, and what every major medical organization in the country thinks, is simply that the best treatment for transgender individuals is to treat them as the sex they identify as.

          • rubellapox2

            ” So, you are arguing that because someone’s “brain” makes them think they are of a gender different than their body, they should be able to have special “rights” to impose on others (?)”
            Impose what on others? Is a transgender person just existing an imposition on others? How? What a goofy posting…

          • DKELforAmerica

            Great point!

      • DKELforAmerica

        Sorry, biology disagrees. She is a girl who wants to destroy other boys’ lives.

        • Ambulance Chaser

          Biology absolutely does NOT disagree. Neurobiologists have identified many biological factors that causes gender dysphoria. I suggest you read Saraswat et al, “Evidence Supporting the Biologic Nature of Gender Identity” Endocr Pract. 2015;21(2):199-204.

          • DKELforAmerica

            Neurobiology is a very, very ‘new” field of science. Most of its documentation comes from studying the brain waves and components of rats. I will read that report but the field have thousands of studies ( from studying humans as well as animals) that kicks your delusion out of the field of science. Repeat with me now five times- I am not a rat. Studies on rats do not relate to me.

          • TheLastHonestLawyer

            As a stroke survivor, I can tell you that you are full of it.

          • DKELforAmerica

            As a stoke survivor, congratulations on your recovery.

            I can tell you that you can not read because we are not posting about strokes. And you need to take basic classes in the field, from quality professors, because I am posting common knowledge for anyone who went to a good grad school in the field.

          • TheLastHonestLawyer

            Stroke survivors tend to be invited to take part in many studies. One of the reasons we moved from the Central Valley to where we live now was the proximity to Stanford University and the Palo Alto VA facility, both places doing a lot of work on TBIs and changes to brain structures.

            One of my doctors is trans. She used to be a Marine. You’d never know by looking at her.

          • DKELforAmerica

            Not understanding your connection. But you did raise an interesting point about your doctor. If no one can tell your doctor is a “trans” as you call it, how would you know? And why should we care if your doctor is a “trans”, if you had an excellent doctor?

            Yes, the neuroscience field is slowly getting a lot of adult human subjects, but that does not negate my original position your brain is not the same as a rat.

          • TheLastHonestLawyer

            It came up in conversation when I noticed that the diplomas had a different name.

            I was pointing out that I personally know one trans person who looks like they were born in their assigned gender. But you’re right. No one should care about it. Accept people as they are and move on.

          • rubellapox2

            It is not.. stop making up facts…

          • Knowledge Transfer

            Yes – for those with degrees from the University of Moron and or the University of Nit-Wit with even more advanced degrees in moronics; malevolence and Marxism.

          • Pied Piper

            The bible says that they will be left to their devices. Or giving over to their devices. And you want these people to read Saraswat..

        • George O’Donnell

          How exactly does this destroy other boys lives?

          • rureadymatt24.39

            really?? Do you not understand the obvious? Oh, our country is in so much trouble!!!

          • George O’Donnell

            If it’s so obvious then surely you could explain to me the devastating consequences of multiple genders / sexes sharing a bathroom?

            Fun fact: Prior to the late 1800’s, There was no such thing as sex segregated bathrooms in America. Men and women both used the same restrooms.

          • DKELforAmerica

            You mean outhouses and the woods, not public bathrooms. And the sexes were more segregated then, than now.

          • George O’Donnell

            You didn’t answer my question. What are these devastating consequences that are going to happen if multiple genders share a bathroom?

          • DKELforAmerica

            That question requires both parties to have a fundamental understanding of how masculine boys are wired. Too lengthy for a post.

            However, society does not want or need to change our bathroom etiquette to fit the urges and desires of Obama and his followers.

          • George O’Donnell

            The original poster I responded to seemed to think the harm was obvious. Apparently now I need to have some kind of extensive knowledge of male psychology to explain why they can’t pee in the same vicinity of someone who has different looking genitals.

            Children are incredibly adaptable. The only people who care about this issue are adults. The children in question have no issues sharing their space if it makes the trans person more comfortable. Win win solution.

          • DKELforAmerica

            My post stated both parties have to have a basic fundamental understanding of how boys are wired- I did not post extensive.

            Boys masculinity is not adapting, but slowly evolving. The evolution is not healthy for the survival of our families, country, spiritually, and let the biologists talk about it – species.

            The answer is society says No. You want it different, create your own bathroom system and fund it. Three types and the child decide- that is true democracy and it is representive of our society. Make certain YOU pay for it, not the businesses or taxpayers.

          • George O’Donnell

            “My post stated both parties have to have a basic fundamental understanding of how boys are wired- I did not post extensive.”

            So first the required knowledge was too lengthy to even discuss basics …now the required knowledge is basic, not extensive.

            “The evolution is not healthy for the survival of our families, country, spiritually, and let the biologists talk about it – species.”

            HOW is it unhealthy? I have asked this multiple times now and multiple times you have just asserted that its bad without any actual supporting arguments or evidence. For the third time now, please explain WHY it is harmful for people to share a bathroom with trans people?

          • Pied Piper

            Do you believe eating too much sugar is bad for you?? Do you want him to explain that too or is it obvious. The bible says not to explain something that is obvious to the many of what is true. That you shame yourself doing so. Obvious your not wired that way.

          • George O’Donnell

            I don’t know how you expect to persuade people if you refuse to offer any explanation of your position. All I’ve heard so far is “We’re right, you’re wrong, and we’re not telling you why”.

          • DKELforAmerica

            Nope, you missed the main point about respecting and understanding masculinity. A concept you are truly missing.

          • George O’Donnell

            Real men don’t care who’s taking a piss next to them. Male Female or otherwise.

          • DKELforAmerica

            You still on that pissing contest. Obviously you haven’t entered the ‘Real Man’s Club.” Your feminine side is getting annoying.

          • DKELforAmerica

            You are still missing the point about developing, respecting, and understanding masculinity.

            However, to end your thread. Americans don’t want to change hundreds of years of social norms that worked. Also, it is not the job of some weak minded, liberal person sitting on a judicial bench, to create legislation to make society change.

            Remember when it was prophesized that Affirmative Action and “diversity” was going to erode America’s morals and standards? It can be easily argued that the decline is here.

          • George O’Donnell

            “You are still missing the point about developing, respecting, and understanding masculinity.”

            You’re still haven’t explained how exactly this bathroom issue is harmful to so called “masculinity”. Americans DO want to change the social norms because they AREN’T working. Who do you think is pushing for these changes? Americans!

            Have fun in your “Real Man’s Club.” Whatever that is.

          • DKELforAmerica

            The part you are missing is there is a difference between men and males, just like there is a huge difference between fathers who have sons and daughters to raise and the 1,607,527 baby daddies running around, dropping their seed.

          • George O’Donnell

            If you are implying I am one of these men “dropping their seed” everywhere you have grossly misjudged my character. I am a college educated young professional and have no children, nor will I until I am married and ready to start a family.

            Also, you have replied to this comment 3 times now. Would you care to address my more recent comments please?

          • TheLastHonestLawyer

            Can you explain it? The students don’t seem to care, and are rather supportive.

            Tell me, do you think allowing blacks to use the same facilities as whites is ruining our country? Because that’s what was preached in churches across the south 60 years ago.

          • DKELforAmerica

            Please, get off the color issues. If being transgender and/ questioning is to be valid argument, stand on its own merit like the women and Native Indian tribes did. Don’t hide behind separation of race. The LGBTQ resistance movement is based in society’s morals and religious beliefs. The treatment of blacks is based on America’s complex history bathed in slavery and slaves moving legally from status of property to citizens.

          • TheLastHonestLawyer

            No, it is a civil rights issue, and shows just how utterly wrong it is to use religion as a basis for legal rights. You think the Bible wasn’t used to justify slavery? In the 1840s, slave owners were calling abolitionists un-Christian and worse.

            You want to call being transgender a sin? Fine. You want to start the First Gospel Church of Clearly-Defined Gender Roles? Knock yourself out. One of the reasons I’m a card-carrying ACLU member is to defend your right to advocate for things I disagree with.

            My parents came here from Syria and Lebanon for an education, and stayed because this was a land without overbearing religious authorities and minority religions fighting in the streets. They saw what happens with their own eyes when religion replaces civil law.

          • DKELforAmerica

            “It’s a civil rights issue….”- your post.

            Just because you want it so, does not make it so. Just like there was a movement to make polygamy acceptable in America,in 1880s, LGBTQ is having their stance. United States ‘ laws were based on Christian principles as much as English Common Law and the Magna Carta. As Benjamin Franklin was quoted to have said “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people.”

            Yes, the Bible was used to justified slavery. For Arabs, slavery was justified in the Quran and in the Code of Hammurabi (1754BC). Slavery was acceptable form of social hierarchy for thousands of years in Your family’s homeland, Syria. Arabs introduced the slave social hierarchy system to Africans, who introduced it to the Christian Europeans. Slavery being morally wrong is a Western Christian belief and value based on one Christian sect having an epiphany. You can thank the Quakers for being in the kick start phase of slavery being morally wrong. Many Arab countrymen today still have not embraced the movement to just say NO to slavery.

            Slavery in America was a different time and mindset, but did you know it has creeped back into America society along the channels illegal immigrants are using. So if you are against slavery, the abolitionist movement can use you! Look at FBI’s website for more info and conferences.

            “You want to call transgender a sin” – That is your guilty conscious emoting instead of reading my words. Freud would love to get hold of you!

            I am glad your parents immigrated to America to enjoy the liberties my ancestors fought, bleed, argued, and laid down their life to build out of an harsh wilderness a City on the Hill for you to enjoy. But a good, solid American history class would give you a better perspective what the Founding Fathers and Mothers sacrificed to build.

          • TheLastHonestLawyer

            That quote was from John Adams.

            You know, i have no trouble with multiple marriages so long as everyone involved is a consenting adult. The suppression of the Mormon polygamous tradition is a glaring example of just how fragile our civil rights can be.

            Um, Arabs had nothing to do with the Code of Hammurabi. We were still in the far southern reaches of the Arabian Peninsula during Hammurabi’s reign, and wouldn’t move north for centuries. The Code itself wasn’t uncovered until 1901 CE.

            Slavery has been a near universal facet of human life because it works.

            No, not my guilty conscious, just me seeing how the rest of you lot are reacting to this young man in particular and transgendered folks in general. I have friends and family who are in various stages of transitioning, and while I don’t fully understand it, I see the positive effect it has had on their mental well being.

            Why do people assume that immigrants are ignorant? I helped my parents study for their citizenship exams. I would wager that I know more hard American history than you do. Oh, and if you want to trade quotes:

            “Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.” -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

            “Among the sayings and discourses imputed to him [Jesus] by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being.”
            -Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short, April 13, 1820

          • DKELforAmerica

            Your arrogance is rearing its head with your statement starting with “I have no trouble with . ..” . This is very common in immigrants who have not been acculturated in American values and history of what America is really about- it is not about you. America is about “us” and what our ancestors bleed and died for the future to enjoy and not throw away.

            If you do not know the significance of the Code of Hammurabi, I recommend direct your attention to this famous law code, originated from the First Dynasty of Babylon (1792-1750 BCE). According to the Ancient History Encyclopedia, modern day Syria is ground zero for the Code of Hammurabi – Great source to discover the history of this area. Don’t you just love learning new info when ego does not create a barrier?

            The Thomas Jefferson quote was interesting, but taken out of context. Your selected quote does not change the fact that America’s Constitution and legal and social mores, and values are rooted in Christian values. To understand the significance, you must start in England and why those brave colonists selected to brave the unknown and death to settle and build a “Shining Ciy on the Hill” in America. Quote from Puritan John Winthrop, inspired by Jesus Sermon on the Mount.

            You love quoting Jefferson, but if you study his life and writings, in context, you would find that he would not agree with you. What’s interesting is you are favoring a president who unwillingly engaged the first major battle with the Arabs (First Barbary Wars) and part of the mindset that the “gloomy despotism of the Muslims were spreading over much of the world and “had no place in American democracy.” Thomas Jefferson, John Jay, and John Adams were sent to attempt to resolve the first international attacks on American colonies by the Muslim Barbary States of North Africa and he had a lot to say about the two very different cultures. How is that for alittle history lesson. But, I have followed you off track of the original discussion.

            I will State my original statement. Do not equate or hide the LGBTQ movement behind the black Civil Rights Movement. LGBTQ needs to make their own stand. And get off the color issue.

          • TheLastHonestLawyer

            I was born in Fresno, California, in August 1958. I grew up an American kid who went to a different church and couldn’t eat some of the foods my friends ate. I played baseball, spent one year on the JV basketball team, and decided to serve in the United States army as an 11-B1P, Airborne Infantryman.

            Dude, trust me, immigrants understand America much better that you because you got it handed to you on a silver platter. My parents had to earn it. Every immigrant has to earn it. We get called names, mocked for our accents, aren’t trusted, and after 9/11 I had friends whispering behind my back because I am an Arab.

            Um, dude? The Bey of Benghazi was exacting tribute from American shipping. What exact possessions did you think the Bey’s dhows were rowing across the Atlantic to take from us?

            I will stay on the civil rights issue because it is the same fight whether it be race, religion, orientation, or gender.

            The LBGT community has made their own stand. And they won.

          • DKELforAmerica

            delusions of grandeur have now joined your arrogance.

            The world is not about you. Americans know the world is about “us.”

          • TheLastHonestLawyer

            I guess you cut Matthew 7:1 out of your Bible? You assumed that I was an immigrant. My parents immigrated, and in their own way helped build the modern Central Valley. I served the nation as part of the justice system, upholding the rights of those brought before the courts to face criminal charges. My son is right now on an aircraft carrier repairing the avionics of F-18 Super Hornets.

            Where are your children? What have you done for this nation? How many exams and background checks did you have to pass to earn your vote? Immigrants built this nation, whether we came of our own accord or were brought in chains.

            The world is not about us. The world is eight billion humans all seeking the same outcome, survival. You should spend some time sitting in a criminal court listening to the stories told. America is in no way immune from the poverty, oppression, and social injustice that drives crimes. Economic insecurity is what drives people to rob gas stations.

            You want to claim the world is about us? Fine, what material efforts are you making to end poverty? To ensure that every child gets an education and that everyone who wants a job gets one? I spent my life fighting for these things, as my father did before me.

            How dare you lecture me about being an American!

          • DKELforAmerica

            Americans know the world is about “Us.” Calling yourself an American is more than just immigrating here, enjoying American opportunities, and taking a test. It is more than just being born here. Being American is a philosophy, a pride and love of the land and culture and sacrifices of our ancestors. True Americans are not hyphenated, but just are. True Americans understand the meaning “I”m from Texas” or “where your People from?”

            Being American is in the heart, not head, not a test. Americans are about “US” and we are the People of the United States of America. We know what that means. Americans can feel what the Pledge of Allegiance means because of the historical significance and its in our psyche DNA.

            By the way, Americans know this country was NOT built from immigrants. Americans know the country was built from the blood, sweat, prayers to our Christian God and tears of colonists. For Americans, the world is about us. Why? Our ancestors braved starvation and death, we stood up to the world’s greatest military (Britain) of the day, prayed to God- who answered us, literally, and walked to the next adventure with the words of Sam Houston in our hearts and minds. Americans do not apologize for it either.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “Our Christian God”? Hmm…do you consider being a Christian part of the requirements to be a “True American”?

          • DKELforAmerica

            1776, the birth of America. In order to Pledge your allegiance and sign our documents, the Founders had to sign their name and State from with Christian group they belong.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            That would be unconstitutional now, you know.

          • DKELforAmerica

            That is why American People voted an “outsider” to the White House – they wanted to “drain the swamp.”

          • TheKingOfRhye

            You’re losing me a little bit there, I’m afraid. I’m talking about the “no religious test clause” of the Constitution. What does that have to do with either Trump or Obama? (If by “the swamp” you mean him)

            By the way, this is kinda going off on a tangent, but the people didn’t vote Trump in, the Electoral College did. Clinton won the popular vote. I’m not saying Trump is not legitimately the President, he absolutely is, by the system we have in place, I just think it’s an unfair system. Oh, and I’m not just saying that because I didn’t want Trump to win, I’ve thought that for quite a while.

          • DKELforAmerica

            The problem is you are looking for something to bite down to attack in my rhetoric. No can do, you are too concrete in your thinking. I am coloring beyond your lines of interpretation. I won’t engage with you, nor will I insult you.

            Now, I will go off the point and follow your thread….My statement said the American people voted for an “outsider” in the White House. Now, factcheck it: The Daily Wire reports 62,979,636 Americans voted for Donald Trump.

            62,979,636 Americans voted.

            ‘Drain the swamp’ statement is reference to your comment about the judges today would find the legal opinion of the early judges unconstitutional. This statement is saying Americans voted for Trump to get rid of liberal judges and restore judicial integrity.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “My statement said the American people voted for an “outsider” in the
            White House. Now, factcheck it: The Daily Wire reports 62,979,636
            Americans voted for Donald Trump.”

            That doesn’t change a single thing about the point I was making. The last sentence is true, but the first one, your initial statement, is false. The American people voted for Hillary Clinton. 65,844,610 of them, or over 2.8 million more votes than Trump ended up with. In

          • Pied Piper

            It helps. Jesus Christ is The Life, The Truth and The Way.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I don’t know, though, I think “true American” is one of those things, to me at least, like “true Christian”…I always wonder just what the person saying that means by it. I mean, I pay my taxes, I vote; does that mean I’m a “true American”, or I do have to follow a certain political and/or religious ideology to qualify?

            And of course, like “true Christian”, I’m just waiting for someone to use it as a “no true Scotsman” fallacy.

            As in:
            “No American would support X”
            “Well, I’m an American, and I do!”
            “No TRUE American would support X!”

          • Pied Piper

            Do you want America to stand. If so that is a true American. If everyone was like you would America stand or fall. Just like A True Christian. Do you believe on Jesus Christ. Or go through the bible picking and choosing what you think makes your life better and to hell with everyone else. If you had the liberal Christian views numbered I would have explained each of them why encouraged through liberal eyes they don’t work.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Well, then I guess I am a “true American” after all, then. because I certainly don’t want my country to fall, in fact, I don’t know anyone, conservative or liberal, Christian or otherwise, who lives here and wants that. I probably have some different ideas than you about what America should be, or how things should happen, but that doesn’t mean I’m trying to destroy America or something, believe it or not.

          • TheLastHonestLawyer

            The English colonists were immigrants. And immigrants built this nation. Cotton didn’t magically harvest itself. The Transcontinental Railroad didn’t descend from the heavens. Your house was probably built by immigrants.

            So, when did you ancestors get here, and from where?

          • TheKingOfRhye

            The Constitution is “rooted in Christian values”?? Which ones exactly?

          • DKELforAmerica

            History lesson 101. Start with the Puritans, Quakers, Protestant, and Catholic history and migration into America. Then go back into the history of England. Your answer is there.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            A straight answer is just too much to ask for sometimes, I guess.

          • DKELforAmerica

            It is if both parties are not grounded in the same historical and philosophical foundation. Your answer is an history lesson. I referred you to the research.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Telling me what particular values we’re talking about here isn’t a “history lesson.” Maybe it is if you’re trying to tell me why or how they came to be, but you didn’t say what they are in the first place.

          • DKELforAmerica

            Only if you were a scholar/ student of American history, the straight answer would be available.

          • DKELforAmerica

            How many different Christian values are there?

          • TheKingOfRhye

            You tell me; you’re the Christian in this conversation.

          • DKELforAmerica

            It is time you sprout your wisdom about the various Christian values. I read my posts again, it seems I gave an historical perspective to the conversation. It appears you are implying only Christians know how to read and study history.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            You were the one making the claim that the Constitution was based on Christian values. I asked you which ones in particular; I figured it would have been an easy enough question to answer. Do you actually have an answer, or do you plan to just keep dodging the question?

            I liked this list I found, actually: (Christian values as used in modern liberal politics)

            support for a culture of empathy and compassion

            protection of the environment as the product of a deep reverence for God’s creation

            the undesirability of war other than as a last resort, and a respect for diplomacy

            a living wage for all, seen as a mark of concern for the physical welfare of “the least among us

            a high, progressive income tax to promote greater income equality in keeping with Jesus’ words in support of the poor and against excessive riches

            promoting Render unto Caesar as an endorsement of secular governance separation of church and state and religious tolerance

            (Now, the last one, that’s a good answer to the question right there!)

          • Pied Piper

            So you believe that it is right for 5% of the people getting .90cents out of a dollar hand out .10cent out of every dollar to the 90% of the people. That is the way the welfare system works today. Just trying to make it clear of how you actually think.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            My goal there was really just to provide a list of “Christian values” that are contrary to what I’m guessing people here think they are. The same article had a list of Christian values as used in conservative politics, and that was a lot more like the ideas Christians here usually espouse. Honestly, I’m not 100% percent behind everything on that list myself, the tax thing being my main stumbling block. I guess I’m kind of a moderate on things like that, really.

          • Pied Piper

            Going to take time to do this. # 1 being support for a culture of empathy and compassion.
            1. As long as they spend someone else’s money and they get rich doing it.
            2. As long as they spend someone else’s money and they get rich doing it.
            3. Diplomacy with anti-Christ governments who are hell bent on greed and the total destruction of their people and own countries in some cases. Liberal policies, who cares if I can’t make a buck. Up to 100 million people displaced, murdered, raped and sold into slavery through the Obama administration. Even Obama said in a speech 75 million.
            4. A living wage. If I was clearing $50,000 from a business and had 3 employs making $10.00 a hour and after all the regulation and fees and permits and the other. If the government thought the living wage should be $15.00 a hour and passed that law. I would be making $18,800 while my employs were making $31,200. That kinda sounds like a government job the employs make more then the employer which is the American tax payer. They should be grateful I figured out a way to give them a job.
            5. Lets promote work requirements for food stamps and some welfare for the able bodied. Hey they could pay for more Medicaid and possibly chip in for the preexisting illnesses per state for their own citizens instead of having one state pay for the mismanagement of other states. Vote people in that support anti-trust laws and monopoly laws. Or get rid of crooked judges.
            6. You got me on that one. They never had a constitution for and by the people way back then. Jesus said if you don’t work you don’t eat. Protect the widow and the orphans. And the elderly and sick. Pretty simple stuff.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Did you read what I said before? I didn’t really post that list because I was trying to argue for every single point on it.

          • Pied Piper

            To Love Jesus Christ with all your heart, body and soul. If your not doing that then your not a Christian. Do you understand that?

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Yeah, I understand that, but what does any of it have to do with the Constitution of the United States? That’s what I was asking.

          • Pied Piper

            That is the answer to your question. If you know your bible you could pass the Bar Exam with exceptions of presedent of unjust cases that have been made for a certain political agenda or for money with would be the political agenda. Or just out of plain fear of consequences or just plain evil.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            That doesn’t answer my question at all.

          • rubellapox2

            LGBT movement is a civil rights movement, doesn’t have to hide behind any other group… many people of “color” are LGBT ….

          • DKELforAmerica

            LGBTQ should create its own civil rights movement. My point is stay away of connecting it to the black civil rights movement. Fredrick Douglass, one of the Civil Movement great leaders, in 1800s, even made it clear that the Women’s Movement should stand on its own. I agree with your point, the movement should not have to hide behind another group.

          • rubellapox2

            Should create? Lol, are you mad? It’s already happened/happening and has been very successful….

          • rureadymatt24.39

            Trying to TheLastHonestLawyer to understand the difference between ethics and race might be futile. Notice such arguments keep going to emotional craziness/madness? He isn’t using sound arguments but tries to confuse ethics and race as an argument-not even plausible! He should know better with “lawyer ” in his username (wouldn’t want that lawyer to represent me).

          • DKELforAmerica

            Good point.

          • Bob Johnson

            And in 50 years time their great-grandchildren will be telling us how it was good Christian people like Sharon-at-home that fought for LGBT rights

          • ppp777

            If the world lasts that long , remember what happened to Sodom .

          • Knowledge Transfer

            Black and white are genetic inheritances. Given that there is no such thing as a homosexual gene, surely there is no such thing as a gene for “trans”; “this”; “that”; “these”: or “those”. All there is are boys and girls who eventually become men and women…some of whom along the way are marred in to anti-sexual inversion and perversion based on abuse or severe hallucinogenic mental illness. Chromosomes determine sex. All men possess X&Y chromosomes; all women possess X&X chromosomes. Men determine the sex in children either boy and girl. There are now about 71 fictitious and fraudulent names for 0.5% of the general population which claim to be parts and pieces of the oxymoron called transgender at the coercive expense of 99,5%. If this asinine abstraction wasn’t so incredibly demented, it would be laughable. It’s hard to believe that such an advanced civilization would in any way make easy such craziness.

            Facts are stubborn things. Feelings are not necessarily based on facts. When feelings are not based on facts, such feelings do not exist. If transgenders “FELT” that 2+2 isn’t always 4, would such stupidity be forced on all teachers and students for a few strange agents? Wouldn’t it be vastly better and more sane to change the 0.5% into the

            What kind of a country would FORCE a non-existent hoax on 99.5% of the general population as in having a malignant in grown hair on the tip of a dog’s tail metastasize into waging the dog to death.

          • Joe2139

            Brilliant!

          • Becky

            A faulty comparison…civil rights issues to sexual immorality.

            God never said anywhere that being black (or any other colour) was/is a sin. People that hate another person because of their colour are doing it solely out of an unfounded hate.
            However, God commanded that all sexual immorality is a sin.

          • TheLastHonestLawyer

            Go read the Biblical justifications for slavery in the United States. Trust me, they found Bible quotes to support the idea that blacks are inferior.

          • Becky

            Firstly, there isn’t a single word in the Scriptures that say “blacks” are inferior to anyone. Secondly, anyone can contort scripture out of context.

            Slavery, per se, wasn’t condemned in the Scriptures, however injustices towards slaves/servants were a grave sin. In fact, specific laws were enacted in order to protect slaves/servants from any injustice (Lev. 25; Deut. 15). For example, they were to be paid, monetarily or with food/shelter, for their servitude. God even reminded the Israelites continually that they should do good to strangers (Lev 19:34) and servants, because they were once strangers and servants (Lev 25:55, Deut 24:14,15).

            God also said that a master and his servants should behave justly and godly towards one another (Matthew 18:23-34, 24:45-51). Job understood that quite well…“If I have denied justice to any of my servants, whether male or female, when they had a grievance against me, what will I do when God confronts me? What will I answer when called to account? Did not he who made me in the womb make them? Did not the same one form us both within our mothers?”(Job 31:13-15).

            Paul, like Job, understood Christ’s teachings, too, “Masters, provide your bondservants with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven.”(Col.4:1). He also condemned the sinful act of slave-dealing…kidnapping a man/woman and selling them into slavery (1 Tim. 1:10; Exo. 21:16).

          • TheLastHonestLawyer

            Genesis 9 has been used endlessly by white supremacists to justify racism. In it, Ham and all his descendants are cursed to be ruled by the descendants of his bothers.

          • Becky

            Firstly, “white supremacists” are imbeciles.

            Secondly, Ham wasn’t cursed…Canaan was cursed.

            Thirdly, the name of Cush (Ham’s son, Noah’s grandson, Nimrod’s father, Canaan’s brother) meant black, but he wasn’t cursed by God.

            Fourthly, the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Jebusites, the Ammonites, the Moabites, the Egyptians, and the Amorites were Noah’s children/descendants. For example, Ham was the father of the “cursed” Canaan (Gen9:25), Abraham (father of the nation of Israel/Jews) descended from Noah’s son Shem, Canaan’s uncle, so they were all related.

            Lastly (and because fifthly just sounds weird), Deut 7:1,3-4 clearly states why the Israelites were not to marry into those idolatrous nations, “When the Lord your God brings you into the land which you go to possess, and has cast out many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, SEVEN NATIONS GREATER AND MIGHTIER THAN YOU…Nor shall you make marriages with them. You shall not give your daughter to their son, nor take their daughter for your son. FOR THEY WILL TURN YOUR SONS AWAY FROM FOLLOWING ME, TO SERVE OTHER GODS; so the anger of the Lord will be aroused against you and destroy you suddenly.” (Emphasis added). Notice how God stated that those nations were “greater and mightier” than the Israelites? Did you read why the Israelites weren’t to marry them? The word of God tells us repeatedly why the Israelites were to stay away from foreign nations (eg: Exo 23:33, Deut20:16, Judges2:2-3, Psalm106:36-39, Ezra 9:14) and it had absolutely nothing to do with the colour of skin.

          • DKELforAmerica

            That answer requires both parties to have a fundamental understanding of how masculine boys are wired. Too lengthy for posting. There are great books out there that breaks down the social and emotional development of boys.

            Respect the masculine in our boys to men!

          • TheLastHonestLawyer

            So… give them special rights?

          • DKELforAmerica

            Call it keeping the status quo. Why try to fix a social system which isn’t broken?

          • TheLastHonestLawyer

            Because it is broken, as I’ve seen first hand.

          • DKELforAmerica

            Americans love America just they way we are. Change is good, but Americans believe you should go first.

          • Knowledge Transfer

            When you treat crazy the same as and equal to sane, why ever be sane?

      • Oboehner

        Unless there is something other than a vagina between HER legs, SHE is a FEMALE.

        • TheLastHonestLawyer

          Once he finishes transitioning, he will be male.

          Do a search on “Shawn Stinson bodybuilder” That person was born female. He is now a man, and a professional bodybuilder. If you met him on the street, would you be able to tell?

          • Oboehner

            Transitioning? If SHE isn’t male now, SHE never will be. There’s not enough hormones in the world to change HER FEMALE DNA. I find it fascinating how the so-called “experts” claim the woman who thinks she’s a cat is nuts, yet some other disturbed individual who think’s she’s a boy is perfectly ok. How does that work?

          • TheLastHonestLawyer

            No, she will be. Did you do the search I suggested? Yes or no.

          • rureadymatt24.39

            It is truly a run away train. I guess we from this go to pseudo science supporting the evil child abuse of pedophilia, beastology, and every other evil under the sun. TheLastHonestLawyer doesn’t seem to know that Rome destroyed itself. Everything they believe turns to anarchy, and everyone should do as they please, despite violating the majority rights. No one matters but them-very narcissistic generation. 🙁

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “Majority rights”? There is no such thing. If something is truly a right, it’s not limited to some “majority”. I noticed you said a few times elsewhere that the minority should not rule over the majority, or words to that effect. Fine, but neither should the majority rule over a minority. That’s “tyranny of the majority”, or “mob rule”.

          • Parodyx

            Because as human beings we possess masculine and feminine aspects. We don’t possess feline ones.

          • rureadymatt24.39

            An interesting study from Israel shows that no matter how much you try to change your gender via hormones or surgeries, the DNA stays the same. A woman is a woman and a man is a man. Check out the article.

        • Ambulance Chaser

          Not according to modern medicine, but then, I suppose you understand neurobiology better than neurobiologists, the same way you know law better than lawyers and judges, right?

          • Oboehner

            Unless there is something other than a vagina between HER legs, SHE is a FEMALE. Why is the woman who identifies as a cat nuts, but the girl who thinks she’s a boy isn’t?

          • Ambulance Chaser

            I’m not sure what you’re asking because “nuts” is not a medical diagnosis. So psychologically speaking, no one is “nuts.”

          • Oboehner

            Obtuse question skirt.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            I can’t answer a question whose premise isn’t true.

            If you’re asking why there isn’t a “species dysphoria” movement, and why we don’t indulge these people, then the answers are

            1) Probably because they’re much rarer than trans people, not as well organized, and much less understood scientifically.

            2) Same answer as #1, ergo we don’t have enough understanding of the condition to know how or even if we should.

          • Oboehner

            That all sounds discriminatory, however you spoke volumes with this: “not as well organized”. That’s the true nature of this, “science” is merely a label pasted on it, because who can argue when THAT trump card is played (no matter how bogus).

          • Ambulance Chaser

            I said there’s no movement because they’re not organized. I didn’t say the science was based on popular opinion.

            You took that completely out of context. Talking to you is like trying to argue with a Sovereign Citizen.

          • rureadymatt24.39

            go whine to your friends, and get off this website. Babies that whine need pacifiers, and I am not giving you one.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            I don’t know what I said that you think is a “whine,” but in any case, I have no intention of going anywhere.

          • rureadymatt24.39

            You b must be a ]app if Doors troll. You sure sound like one arguing such nonsense as hot air, no substance just useless rants.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Yes, how silly of me to think that quoting experts in the field we’re talking about would serve any useful purpose.

          • rureadymatt24.39

            Yep, you reveal yourself. I should have known by your comments that you were a paid troll. Your most recent comment revealed that. I would have thought paid trolls were more eloquent in speech and more reasonable in thought. Nope, just internet harrassers, bullies, paid verbal thugs going onto Christian websites and circles to try to cause trouble.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            I’m definitely not a “paid troll” or I’d be a lot richer. I’m just a guy who likes to debate.

            I’m not sure how “my last comment revealed that” I was a paid troll, unless I commented “I’m a paid troll.”

            Anyway, all of this is irrelevant, since I’m not the subject of discussion here.

          • rureadymatt24.39

            I don’t know which troll you are, but you are definitely a troll. You can’t argue with any common flow of thought, as you use a lot of couching, and misdirecting any “debates”, and mostly circular thinking, logical fails, fallicies. You would have given you an F in debate class in college. Your reasoning lacks terribly. . So, I doubt you are as you say, a “debater”, no way! A true debater knows how to follow logical sequences of statements (you fail at that). You are a troll coming on this website to try to stir up trouble, no doubt. The website should do a better job kicking off trolls like yourself.

            For those who don’t know what a troll is, there are many types of trolls with different agendas and support. Here is a list from the tea party (nicely organized, a bit gritty, but gets the point across). In the internet world, it is best to get educated in this disgusting behavior so you don’t fall prey to their circle reasoning which is never profitable. Don’t waste your time on them, block, and stay away.

            The Dumb Troll:
            The most common troll is the troll that is absolutely totally ignorant of the facts. If I did not know better, I would say that can’t even read, but they do post. He/she troll uses hate speech, quotes MSNBC talking points, has a limited vocabulary, poor writing skills, and generally when questioned about their comments, they cannot respond. These trolls will die a trolls death of always being ignorant of the truth. You can’t save the stupid.

            The Educated Troll:
            The second most common troll to show up on social media sites is the educated troll. This person is actually educated but is on the never-ending-government-dowel and is always trying to justify their lost cause and existences. For example: a teacher that is a member of the Union is always trying to defend their egregious pension fund increases and salary increases as deserving and justified more than educating your children. Sad to say, a two by four across the head will not help them. However, I am optimistic and there may be hope for these people. After Governor Walker was able to eliminate collective bargaining for the 64,000 teachers in the state, 41,000 of the teachers decided to not pay the once mandatory Union dues. A great victory for Governor Walker and those teachers. The sad part is that 24,000 Union Teacher are still voluntarily paying their Union dues for nothing. Absolutely nothing in return. These are lost souls that the devil has tricked and has consumed. These trolls are now listed as Dumb Trolls.

            The George Soros Trolls:
            These professionally paid trolls are the worst. Luckily there are not many of them and you can spot them very easily. They are full time trolls that lurk in the dark waiting for an opportunity to unload a plethora of tools at an unsuspecting conservative. They use cue and paste tools like a Japanese Jensu knife expert. Nobody types that fast. Not even Superman. So when you are being swamped with paragraphs of liberal socialist double-talk without even sending one 5 word response, chances are you are being hacked by a George Soros Troll. These are the trolls you need to booth off the site. Make them earn their silver pieces. Yet, these trolls are the easiest to piss off especially if you too are an expert at cutting and pasting. Like me.

          • rureadymatt24.39

            First, I speak to you, Ambulance Chaser, and my next comment is for the administration:

            Yes, you are troll, no doubt. You are not a guy that just debates because your debates fail. Your have circular reasoning, which in itself is full of fallacies. You are not a debators. Such debates would have failed in college because they do not at all follow any logical sequence. They are circular. However, you are not the only troll on here. I do see some others. I had heard about the trolls that invade Christian websites and groups. You have revealed your motive and agenda with your words.

            So, I wish to call on this website to make it troll free. Christian websites must be better monitored than this, or they are infiltrated by those who wish to create trouble. Without it being monitored, it is not a site that is good to visit. So, I charge those who are running this website to block those who are obvious trolls. If this website administrators are not familiar with trolls then, please read this article (over look the gritty to educate). I do think there is another group not identified on this list, the sociopaths that troll for the reason of bringing harm. But, there is also the group that tries to troll for trying to appease their conscience (they must get others to agree so they can feel better about their depraved state). So, adding those two groups to the list. So, administration, I recommend, using this information to better guard your website so that it is a safer environment for Christians.

            The Dumb Troll:
            The most common troll is the troll that is absolutely totally ignorant of the facts. If I did not know better, I would say that can’t even read, but they do post. He/she troll uses hate speech, quotes MSNBC talking points, has a limited vocabulary, poor writing skills, and generally when questioned about their comments, they cannot respond. These trolls will die a trolls death of always being ignorant of the truth. You can’t save the stupid.

            The Educated Troll:
            The second most common troll to show up on social media sites is the educated troll. This person is actually educated but is on the never-ending-government-dowel and is always trying to justify their lost cause and existences. For example: a teacher that is a member of the Union is always trying to defend their egregious pension fund increases and salary increases as deserving and justified more than educating your children. Sad to say, a two by four across the head will not help them. However, I am optimistic and there may be hope for these people. After Governor Walker was able to eliminate collective bargaining for the 64,000 teachers in the state, 41,000 of the teachers decided to not pay the once mandatory Union dues. A great victory for Governor Walker and those teachers. The sad part is that 24,000 Union Teacher are still voluntarily paying their Union dues for nothing. Absolutely nothing in return. These are lost souls that the devil has tricked and has consumed. These trolls are now listed as Dumb Trolls.

            The George Soros Trolls:
            These professionally paid trolls are the worst. Luckily there are not many of them and you can spot them very easily. They are full time trolls that lurk in the dark waiting for an opportunity to unload a plethora of tools at an unsuspecting conservative. They use cue and paste tools like a Japanese Jensu knife expert. Nobody types that fast. Not even Superman. So when you are being swamped with paragraphs of liberal socialist double-talk without even sending one 5 word response, chances are you are being hacked by a George Soros Troll. These are the trolls you need to booth off the site. Make them earn their silver pieces. Yet, these trolls are the easiest to piss off especially if you too are an expert at cutting and pasting. Like me.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            “Yes, you are troll, no doubt. You are not a guy that just debates because your debates fail. Your have circular reasoning, which in itself is full of fallacies. You are not a debators. Such debates would have failed in college because they do not at all follow any logical sequence. They are circular.”

            Actually, I was debate captain in high school, a national mock trial competitor in college, and I’m a practicing attorney now. The mere fact that you stomp your foot and say my arguments “fail” or are “circular” or “would fail in college” doesn’t make it true.

            You would have a much better time if you actually pointed the errors you believe you see.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            What I want to know is, who pays these “paid trolls” anyway? I could use a few extra bucks, you know….

          • Oboehner

            “science” funding is based on popular opinion, who wants to lose their funding and have to get a real job? Yes, they are organized.

      • DKELforAmerica

        Only in Ash’s mind. But I guess if you tell a lie often enough, it ceased to be a lie.

        • Bob Johnson

          Oddly enough it is only in that chemical and electrical soft matter we call Ash’s brain that counts in determining what is Ash’s gender. Many things, including DNA influence the outcome. However, stopping at DNA is like looking at a house blueprint and instantly determining the interior design is Danish modern.

      • Ted Skibinski

        No Ash Acts like a Boy . DNA tests will show She IS a GIRL !You are not Changing their Genetics Just Changing the Surface “Cover “.

        • Ambulance Chaser

          Okay, so explain how DNA determines gender.

    • Pied Piper

      It says in the last days that people will be doing anything for money. Just saying.

  • Bob Jones

    PULL — YOUR — CHILDREN — FROM — SCHOOL !!!! Make the sacrifice and home school them, or put them in a private school if you can afford it.

    • Peter Leh

      home school… yes.

      Dont think your kids are safe in private school…… I know of one that was hooked on meth by a deacon’s son… later was attempted to be trafficked.

      • Bob Jones

        Pretty sad isn’t it? Unfortunately it’s true though. We home schooled our boys and have no regrets. We miss the time spent with our boys, it was a blessing, but they are both doing very well now.

  • DKELforAmerica

    Ridiculous ruling. Resist! Take to Supreme Court or just say No!

    • Ambulance Chaser

      Since I have yet to receive an answer to this question after asking it twice, maybe the third time will be the charm:

      What part of the ruling is “ridiculous?” Do you believe that the Circuit Court should have exercised pendent jurisdiction over the District Court’s denial of Defendant’s dismissal motion or that the District Court did not err in granting Appellee’s motion for a preliminary injunction?

      • DKELforAmerica

        Cute fancy legalese. The ridiculous part starts with judicial over reach. The people sitting on the bench, wearing the dark robes of honor, have no right to make social policy from the bench. Justice Felix Frankfurter authored the Court’s opinion in the 1940 Minersville School District v Gobitis case, which was another radical movement’s legal power play to destroy one of America’s social institutions. US Supreme Court Justice Frankfuter authored the Court’s opinion which states “that is the duty, of the legislature, not the courts, to make changes in the legislature.” He further went on to state the courts are not the guardians of people’s liberties and welfare.

        • Ambulance Chaser

          “Cute fancy legalese. The ridiculous part starts with judicial over reach. The people sitting on the bench, wearing the dark robes of honor, have no right to make social policy from the bench.”

          I think the school district would disagree, because they’re the one to ask the court to hear the case.

          “Justice Felix Frankfurter authored the Court’s opinion in the 1940 Minersville School District v Gobitis case, which was another radical movement’s legal power play to destroy one of America’s social institutions.”

          Apparently that radical movement succeeded because Minersville was overruled three years later in West Virginia v. Barnette.

          “He further went on to state the courts are not the guardians of people’s liberties and welfare.”

          That’s some nice dicta. Irrelevant to the issue at hand.

          In fact, nothing you said is really relevant. Are you going to answer my question now?

          • DKELforAmerica

            Arrogance is always a barrier to civil discourse. Slap down your ego and then you will be able to clearly see I have answered your question- and without all that arrogance.

            And let the school districts disagree, they are controlled by the same “experts” who ripped phonetics from the academic disciplines and now millions of people can not master reading without emoting. You can always tell these readers because hey use their arrogance as a shield.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            You cited an old piece of dicta from an overruled case. Minersville is a Free Exercise Clause case and contains no ruling that’s on point to any issue in this case, but you didn’t quote the ruling from it anyway. And even if you had, it’s no longer good law.

            Basically, you’ve demonstrated no understanding of the issue at hand, which means you really have no basis for your opinion.

          • DKELforAmerica

            Arrogance preventing you from engaging in civil discussions again. You just can not think outside your box. Free your mind. You can’t always lead, sometimes you must follow someone else’ thread.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            I’m arrogant? You’re the one who thinks the Court’s ruling was “ridiculous” but can’t seem to explain why.

            I simply asked you what was ridiculous about it, and you have yet to give me any kind of relevant answer, including one that indicates that you’ve even bothered to read it. So yes, I tend to get a little snippy with people who want to play in the big leagues but aren’t remotely qualified to do so.

          • DKELforAmerica

            Arrogance is the barrier to progress, but the gateway to propaganda.

            Everyone does not think like you, but we still think. My answer is based from the world of philosophy (which guides law from an ethical and moral perspective). If you have not been trained to think in this area, it is easy to miss the point for concrete thinkers.

            Your answer is in the original post, presented from a viewpoint of one of our American framers of the same justice system liberals are working hard today to destroy its integrity.

            By the way Lenin would be proud of your tactics to discredit, since the techniques are so similar to his.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            That’s a lot of words to say “I don’t understand law but I want to have an opinion anyway.”

          • DKELforAmerica

            Interestingly, I work in the legal field. Again, your arrogance is acting as a barrier to civil discourse.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            If you work in the legal field, why can’t you simply answer the question? You believe this ruling is “ridiculous.” What is the ruling and why is it ridiculous?

          • TheLastHonestLawyer

            Maybe DKEL is the delivery guy for that one great Greek place that all the local law offices order lunch from?

          • Ambulance Chaser

            😀

  • ppp777

    Another nail in the coffin for America .

  • Dianne

    Christians please UNITE in prayer for our schools and for the souls of wicked doers to REPENT in Jesus name Amen!

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    I think Western authorities are
    planning global mental slavery by installation of falsehood this
    century. Humans who bend God’s Word and compromise a clear conscience
    submit to any types of villains. Or the childless Western authorities
    may be planning to manually reduce the human populatiuon by increasing the number
    of mentally ill pervs among the nations. They are unwise because a
    world like Sodom only gets nuked.

    They are so self-destructive.
    Bending victims’ conscience is the usual tactics of the atheists in
    communist nations though the communists are not sexual pervs like the
    secular West is. It’s unprecedented horrible for humans to be bent by
    the Western Sodomites. It’s been wrong for the Western whites to place the peoples
    of colors and sexually depraved together from the start. They get horrified at the
    words of discrimination while blaspheming against Christianity all they
    want. It’s been wrong all along.

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    People should have freedom to live out the truth – to treat this girl as a girl, not a boy. Installation of a falsehood is slavery by sin.