Oregon Becomes First State to Allow Residents to Be Neither Male or Female on Driver’s License

SALEM, Ore. — Oregon has become the first state to allow residents to identify as neither male or female on their driver’s license and identification card.

Beginning on July 1, residents can select an “X” for their gender instead of “M” or “F.” The new policy was unanimously agreed upon by the Oregon Transportation Commission.

According to Reuters, the concept was considered after Multnomah County Judge Amy Holmes Hehn last June granted a man’s request to identify on his driver’s license as “non-binary.”

As previously reported, Jamie Shupe (pictured) was born male, served in the military and married a woman. But in 2013, as he found himself struggling with his gender identity, Shupe decided to seek treatments that would make him look and feel feminine.

“I figured I was a transgender woman. My thinking was, well, I’m not a male,” Shupe told reporters. “I was in a deep, dark depression because I had boxed myself into this male identity that I couldn’t stand anymore.”

But after taking hormonal treatments and wearing women’s clothing, Shupe still wasn’t satisfied. It didn’t feel right trying to live as a female.

“Now, I’m suddenly telling my spouse I’m the same thing she is? It didn’t make sense to me,” Shupe told The Guardian. “No amount of hormones is going to make me look like a female.”

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He also had no intention of having a sex change operation. So, he decided to be neither.

“I was assigned male at birth due to biology. I’m stuck with that for life. My gender identity is definitely feminine. My gender identity has never been male, but I feel like I have to own up to my male biology,” Shupe told the Oregonian. “Being non-binary allows me to do that. I’m a mixture of both. I consider myself as a third sex.”

Following Holmes Hehn’s ruling in favor of Shupe, the Oregon Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) formed an advisory group about the matter, which included the transgender advocacy organization Basic Rights Oregon. It then penned a proposal and hosted two public hearings to obtain input from local residents.

The DMV said that because most feedback was positive, it decided to proceed with presenting the “X” option on driver’s licenses.

“It’s exciting to see Oregon’s Department of Motor Vehicles adopt this change. We know gender is a spectrum and some people don’t identify as male or female,” Basic Rights Oregon Co-Executive Director Nancy Haque said in a statement on Thursday. “Our lives are so gendered, which is why it’s important that driver licenses and other forms of IDs recognize people who are non-binary. Removing barriers for people is critical to helping all of us live healthy, productive lives.”

However, not everyone believes that the “third gender” concept is valid.

“As it was in the beginning, God created just male and female (from Adam’s rib!) Period! No other gender exists!” one commenter wrote.

“No matter what you say you are, you are what you were born as,” another remarked.

“So is the next step to leave birth certificates with a TBD until someone is old enough to express their feelings? Do we not care about definitive biology any more? Identification is nothing more than abstract thought?” a third asked.

Isaiah 45:9 reads, “Woe unto him that striveth with His Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the Earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, ‘What makest thou?’ or thy work, ‘He hath no hands?’”

Romans 9:20 also states, “Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, ‘Why hast thou made me thus?’”


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  • Amos Moses – He>i

    so anti-science ….. anti-biology …… anti-human ….. anti-common sense …….. post modern garbage of the idea …… i think i am therefore that is reality (having no connection to reality whatsoever) ….. and if i want to drive on the ceiling …. who are you to say i cant ………. /SMH …………..

    • Sisyphus

      Why does the gender identity of someone completely anonymous to you seem to bother you so much? Given the necessary physical parameters, I could drive on the ceiling.

      • Amos Moses – He>i

        lies of any sort bother me … WHY do they not bother you …… it debases society and culture and truth ….. and devalues all of those ……….

        • Sisyphus

          Lies? What about the guy in the pulpit on Sundays? His system of control is based on lies, however, the only thing I can control or change lies within myself.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            what about him …… he has no control …… “the only thing I can control or change lies within myself.” …….. and yet you do not ……….

          • Sisyphus

            He is promoting and perpetrating a system of control…i.e thought control. You know nothing of the circuitous path I take toward contentment. All changes and enlightenment come from within and don’t necessarily conform to your subjective reality.

      • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

        Why does the opinion of someone on the internet bother you so much?

        • Sisyphus

          I seem to have gotten the idea this forum is for rational discourse by those interested in dialectics…hmm, my bad I guess.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            it lost a little of that when you showed up ……….

          • Sisyphus

            So, the club is only open to those of like minds? How parochial of you, ha!

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            its open to you ….. but the thing is ….. you do not seem to be open to it ……..

          • Sisyphus

            I am totally open to anything you have to add, that doesn’t mean I will always agree. Reasonably challenging another’s ideas is how we become better…ala Socrates.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Indeed, which makes your question to Amos Moses all the more puzzling.

          • Sisyphus

            Seemed like a valid question. Perhaps file this under picking battles, but in the realm of “lies”; if gender identity or sexual orientation is, in fact, a lie it seems relatively benign. Additionally, I expected Amos to be the least likely, among the anti-lgbtq, cohort to be “butthurt” over a pointed question.

      • Oboehner

        I should move there, I want to be an umbrella!!

        • Sisyphus

          You would make a terrible umbrella, not pretty or flashy enough.

        • Bob Johnson

          You do not get the option to be anything. Oregon allow M, F, or X.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            University of Arizona Scholar Identifies as a Hippopotamus in …

            27 May 2017 … A visiting scholar at the University of Arizona claimed he identifies as a … a hippopotamus, his theoretical exercise of being transspecies, …

            what about this guys box …………

          • Bob Johnson

            Currently, Oregon does not list Kinds on their driver’s license. Sex is shown on the license and hippopotami come in three sexes M, F, and X.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            there are only two sexes …. X ….. and Y …….. anything outside of that is VANITY ……

          • Oboehner

            Discrimination!! Call the lawyers!! By the way what is X?

      • Robert

        Because I’m not a Calvinist that believes God made these people to punish in hell so who cares about them ? .I’m a Lutheran who believes God is patient with all people not wanting any one in hell.

    • Ambulance Chaser

      Since the proposition that there exists only two genders is so scientific, maybe you could show us some articles published in high-impact, peer-reviewed journals proving that?

      • Amos Moses – He>i

        not gonna play “show me yours and i will show you mine” …… gave that up in second grade …..

        • Enrico Yourfault

          Yes, heaven forbid you should show any of us that there’s a sound basis for anything you claim.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            scripture is what i claim …… what about your claim ……….

          • Enrico Yourfault

            If science proves itself, then I go with science.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            science is a METHODOLOGY and proves NOTHING ….. God and scripture are the truth ….. and that is the only measure of anything from science ……….. truth …….. so if it is contrary to truth ….. then it is GARBAGE ………..

          • Enrico Yourfault

            Science gives proof, something which faith does not do.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope …. bassackwards ………science is a methodology …….. it proves nothing of its own …… truth is known and is knowable without science, logic, philosophy or any other discipline …. faith is a gift of KNOWING the truth ……… science cannot even tell you what the truth is ……. truth is the map to science …… without it you are wandering in the dark without a map ……….. good luck ……..

          • Enrico Yourfault

            I will take proof over faith any day if the week, and would be a fool not to.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            University of Arizona Scholar Identifies as a Hippopotamus in Academic Journal

            27 May 2017 A visiting scholar at the University of Arizona claimed he identifies as a hippopotamus in a recently published article in an academic journal.
            Writing in the Journal of Theoretical Humanities, University of Arizona visiting scholar Florentin Félix Morin argued that his hippo alter-ego has allowed him to navigate the world free from the constraints that “govern human bodies.”

            This article explores the formation of a tranimal, hippopotamus alter-ego. Confronting transgender with transpecies, the author claims that his hippopotamus “identity” allowed him to (verbally) escape, all at once, several sets of categorization that govern human bodies (“gender,” “sexuality,” age). He starts with an account of how his metaphorical hippo-self is collectively produced and performed, distinguishing the subjective, the intersubjective and the social. The article then investigates the politics of equating transgender and transpecies, critically examining the question of the inclusion of “xenogenders” in the trans political movement.

            yeah, Mr. White …… YEAH, SCIENCE …….

          • Enrico Yourfault

            Did he have consensus from his peers?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            what difference does that make ….. consensus ….. or a “popular vote” …… does not determine the truth ………..

          • Enrico Yourfault

            Scientists don’t “vote”. It’s not a popularity contest. They compare facts and findings.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            right … and then they vote ….. maybe not in a ballot box ….. but that is all “peer review” is …… a popularity contest ….. and it has nothing to do with the truth ……….. mostly because there is no objectivity or consistency to it …… just “i liked that” ….. may as well just put the paper on a facebook page and check for “up votes” or whatever they do there ……….

          • Enrico Yourfault

            A peer review is not a popularity contest because it is not about popularity. It’s about the validity of a theory. And if the theory proves to be accurate it picks up consensus. That makes it the very EPITOME of objectivity and consistency, the two things you say it isn’t. I wonder how much you understand about science.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            yeah … NOOOOOOOO ……. not so much if at all …….

            My point is that peer review is impossible to define in operational terms (an operational definition is one whereby if 50 of us looked at the same process we could all agree most of the time whether or not it was peer review). Peer review is thus like poetry, love, or justice. But it is something to do with a grant application or a paper being scrutinized by a third party—who is neither the author nor the person making a judgement on whether a grant should be given or a paper published. But who is a peer? Somebody doing exactly the same kind of research (in which case he or she is probably a direct competitor)? Somebody in the same discipline? Somebody who is an expert on methodology? And what is review? Somebody saying `The paper looks all right to me’, which is sadly what peer review sometimes seems to be. Or somebody pouring all over the paper, asking for raw data, repeating analyses, checking all the references, and making detailed suggestions for improvement? Such a review is vanishingly rare.

          • Enrico Yourfault

            Where’d you cut and paste that from? Clearly you didn’t write it, it doesn’t have ten million periods all over it.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            clearly ….. but it is no less true ………. it was a review of peer review ….. and you can cut and paste it into google and find it ………….

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            J R Soc Med. 2006 Apr; 99(4): 178–182.
            Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine
            Peer review: a flawed process at the heart of science and journals

            further …………

            What is clear is that the forms of peer review are protean. Probably the systems of every journal and every grant giving body are different in at least some detail; and some systems are very different. There may even be some journals using the following classic system. The editor looks at the title of the paper and sends it to two friends whom the editor thinks know something about the subject. If both advise publication the editor sends it to the printers. If both advise against publication the editor rejects the paper. If the reviewers disagree the editor sends it to a third reviewer and does whatever he or she advises. This pastiche—which is not far from systems I have seen used—is little better than tossing a coin, because the level of agreement between reviewers on whether a paper should be published is little better than you’d expect by chance.

            That is why Robbie Fox, the great 20th century editor of the Lancet, who was no admirer of peer review, wondered whether anybody would notice if he were to swap the piles marked `publish’ and `reject’. He also joked that the Lancet had a system of throwing a pile of papers down the stairs and publishing those that reached the bottom. When I was editor of the BMJ I was challenged by two of the cleverest researchers in Britain to publish an issue of the journal comprised only of papers that had failed peer review and see if anybody noticed. I wrote back `How do you know I haven’t already done it?’

          • Bob Johnson

            You are confusing peer review and what an editor should be doing.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            yeah … no …..

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            then you do not go with God and Christ ….. and by your own admission ….. out of orthodoxy and NOT what you just claimed to be ……….

          • Enrico Yourfault

            You really need to learn the scripture about rendering unto Caesar.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            yeah …. i do not even know what you mean by that …. and i do not think you do either …… out of context and meaningless ………. maybe it was something you just read on a gum wrapper …………..

          • Enrico Yourfault

            Rendering into Caesar means leaving the things unrelated to God to the people in charge of them.

          • Enrico Yourfault

            You can go with Christ and not be willfully anti-science as you are.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            scripture is a sound basis …… there is nothing more sound ……….

          • Enrico Yourfault

            When a factual source comes along to prove scripture wrong, I go with that factual source. And I say that as a Christian.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            no …. you say that as a fleshly man and you call God a liar …………. as you just did ……… and guess what that DOES NOT make you ………

          • Enrico Yourfault

            When someone proves something right to my face, I don’t argue with what I cannot argue with.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            sure you do ……… and you just lied ………….

          • Enrico Yourfault

            Didn’t lie.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
            19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
            19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

          • Enrico Yourfault

            What an 8-year old child does in a dressing up situation does not person to marriage. Learn how to quote scripture in a relevant way.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            wow … boring …..

            Mat 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

            Mark 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

            Luke 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            gotta go watch My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic S07 …… toodles ………

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            oh …. BTW ….. you just called God and Christ a liar …. you do not care what scripture says ….. nor would you know if it was correct or not …… you seem confused ………..

          • Enrico Yourfault

            No I didn’t.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            yeah …. you did ………

          • Enrico Yourfault

            As this is completely irrelevant to scripture, your statement is a lie. Please present my own words in which I called Christ a liar.

        • Ambulance Chaser

          So you’re going to make a bold pronouncement then not back it up. Got it.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you do not accept any truth ……. and i made no “pronouncement” of any study of “high-impact, peer-reviewed journals proving that”… only scripture ….. so straw man ……

            you always seem to have difficulty remembering that is a CHRISTIAN discussion ….. and the TRUTH is at issue here …… and the TRUTH IS ….. “Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
            19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
            19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.”

            guess YE have not heard or you … as i said ….. do not accept that TRUTH ……… and you have NOTHING contrary to that being the truth that has ANY weight to it ……….. GOT IT ………..

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Scripture is not a substitute for science. I don’t care that this is a Christian website. That doesn’t absolve you from having to obey the same burdens of proof the rest of us have. Put up your proofs or admit that you have none.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope ….. scripture is the golden standard of truth of which science is MEASURED …… and a lot of “science” ……….. does not measure up …………….

          • getstryker

            Notice that Amos . . . ole AC says you’re starting to sound like some kind of “Dimwit/liberal/progressive/” –
            “make a bold pronouncement then not back it up” –
            Uh huh!

      • Amos Moses – He>i

        University of Arizona Scholar Identifies as a Hippopotamus in Academic Journal

        27 May 2017 A visiting scholar at the University of Arizona claimed he identifies as a hippopotamus in a recently published article in an academic journal.
        Writing in the Journal of Theoretical Humanities, University of Arizona visiting scholar Florentin Félix Morin argued that his hippo alter-ego has allowed him to navigate the world free from the constraints that “govern human bodies.”

        This article explores the formation of a tranimal, hippopotamus alter-ego. Confronting transgender with transpecies, the author claims that his hippopotamus “identity” allowed him to (verbally) escape, all at once, several sets of categorization that govern human bodies (“gender,” “sexuality,” age). He starts with an account of how his metaphorical hippo-self is collectively produced and performed, distinguishing the subjective, the intersubjective and the social. The article then investigates the politics of equating transgender and transpecies, critically examining the question of the inclusion of “xenogenders” in the trans political movement.

        i am gonna guess this was “peer-reviewed” ………………..

        • Ambulance Chaser

          I wish you’d stop going around quoting this at people. Even if we took the title literally, it wouldn’t prove anything about your claim that gender is binary and that that’s all there is to it.

          Bit let’s look at the piece itself. First, you aren’t quoting directly, you’re copying and pasting from a Breitbart article. I had to click through twice to get to the actual piece being referenced. Have you ever heard of citation? Without it, you’re just plagiarizing.

          Anyway, the article that Morin wrote isn’t science at all, and he doesn’t actually self-identify as a hippopotamus. It’s a philosophical think piece using “trans-speciesism” ironically to make a point about the politics and perception of being transgender (which, I think, Morin identifies as). It has nothing to do with the actual science behind it and isn’t a scientific article. You would know all this if you actually read it instead of plagiarizing Breitbart articles.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Yeah …. SCIENCE ………

      • getstryker

        Why don’t you just drop your panties and look between your legs? Well? Are you boy/girl/it?

        • Ambulance Chaser

          Trans people are not unaware of what genitalia they have. They say it’s the WRONG genitalia.

          • getstryker

            Yes, I got that part . . .

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Then why do you think that looking at their genitals is going to cure their gender dysphoria?

          • getstryker

            This is ridiculous . . . a bunch of folks ‘claiming’ they are NOT what their physical gender shows they are is nothing more or less that a ‘mental disorder’ . . . claiming to be a girl when your genitalia proves different is as stupid as standing in your home garage claiming to be a car. So now, idiot liberal state officials in Oregon have proven that they no longer recognize reality . . . by allowing the inclusion of a bogus classification of ‘genderlessness’ they have legitimized the claims of a bunch of very sick people. This will spread across the country for sure. Gee, why am I surely NOT surprised – whew!

          • Ambulance Chaser

            It’s a mental disorder? Then what would you recommend be done about it?

          • getstryker

            If claiming to be a gender that you physically can me shown that you are NOT is not a ‘mental disorder’ – what would you call it? Secondly, putting a
            ‘X’ on a piece of paper solves nothing – why don’t they do what liberals always do . . . pat ’em on the head, give ’em a coloring book and crayons and raise taxes so the State can create a program to make ’em all feel better! Gee, isn’t that the ‘liberal’ thing to do?

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Okay, so you can’t answer my question then. Thanks.

          • getstryker

            I did answer your question – do what liberals do – create some stupid ‘feel good’ program. NOW: ANSWER MINE: If ‘claiming’ to be a gender that you physically can me shown that you are NOT is not a ‘mental disorder’ – what would you call it?

          • Ambulance Chaser

            No, you didn’t. I asked you what treatment you prescribe. You didn’t prescribe any.

          • getstryker

            Imagine that . . . an attorney asking an individual who is totally unqualified to render ANY medical/psychological opinion to PRESCRIBE a ‘treatment’ – My, my!
            In general terms I did – I suggested that ‘liberals do what liberals do’ – create a BS ‘feel good’ program! – oh yeah, they already did that . . . putting an ‘X’ on paperwork should sooth the savage beast in the heart of every person that decide if they got ‘little boy parts or little girl parts’ – regardless what their sick screwed up minds may say!

          • Ambulance Chaser

            I’m sorry, what point, exactly, are you trying to make?

          • getstryker

            Answer my question: “If ‘claiming’ to be a gender that you physically can be shown that you are NOT is not a ‘mental disorder’ – what would you call it?

          • Ambulance Chaser

            The DSM-V does classify it as a type of diagnosis, under its own category. No longer under sexual disorders. I don’t believe the DSM uses the term “mental disorder” at all.

          • getstryker

            (DSM-V) Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM–5) –
            Of course . . . in my ‘layman’s opinion’: removing ‘politically correct’ conditions of sexual or mental disorder is the same thing they did with their correct classification years ago that ‘homosexuality’ was a mental or sexual disorder. Amazing how ‘politically correct’ the world becomes when those dependent of government funding of grants/institutions, etc., bow to the demands of political and social agendas! Gee, and I remember when ‘Doctors’ told you how good smoking was for you. Why sure, I still trust their every word! ;-(

          • Ambulance Chaser

            You don’t have to trust the mental health community’s opinions. You’re perfectly free to get a Ph.D, get hired at an eminent lab or university, and conduct your own research to disprove the current consensus.

          • getstryker

            Nope, not necessary! . . . me and the millions of others who make up their own minds have no obligation to join the ranks of ‘educated idiots’ in order to hold an opinion. Based on the silly actions of ‘elected/appointed officials’ –
            why would we want to waste the time or money if this is a sample of their so-called ‘higher education’?!

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Because you can’t prove your case and they can.

          • getstryker

            Gee, that’s interesting . . . I didn’t know that I had a ‘case’ to prove. In fact, what I do have is an ‘opinion’ and a ‘vote’ . . . I have the freedom to express the one and the duty to exercise the other – just as you do. In the end, I’ll decide for myself if ‘they’ have made their case or not!

          • Blake Paine

            The DSM is always strived to remove ‘diagnosis’ that are cultural affectations rather than actual pathologies. Lots of people feel they are feminine, why is it a ‘mental illness’ for one and not another? Same reason they removed the diagnosis of some people being sexually attracted to a gender was alright for some but not for others.

            Allowing people to chose to be other than male or female is actually a plus even for the theists here – giving them the option of not having to choose one or the other means they won’t necessarily feel compelled to shoehorn their way into a definition by drugs or reconstructive surgeries.

            Simply put this gives them the freedom to change their mind in the future.

          • getstryker

            My point is, ‘they’ can change their minds, claim to be ‘whatever’ and it still does not change the fact that physically – a male is a male and a female is a female. All else, either in the person’s mind themselves or the politically correct liberals that affirm this crap . . . it is a mental disorder – it is NOT reality. If the DSM does NOT reflect scientific truth . . . it’s nothing more that a PC comic book!

          • Blake Paine

            And if they don’t feel masculine or feminine that’s an issue if we – the people other than them – make it an issue. Maybe they will change their minds, maybe they won’t – but giving them the freedom to label themselves as ‘neither’ means they can take the time they need to decide for themselves.

          • getstryker

            The issue is not that someone wants to deny their physical gender . . . they can stand in a field and claim to be a ‘fencepost or a tree’ – who cares – that is NOT the real issue. It is the fact that when authorities in our own government, education and media defend, approve and promote these actions as ‘normal, healthy and natural to kids . . . we are on our way to creating a nightmare among our children down the road. From the early 1960’s ‘they claimed’ – ‘prayer in school is bad, remove it’ and that ‘if it feels good – do it’ to ‘hey wow man, see all the pretty colors’ to ‘it’s only a glob of tissue’, etc. . . the liberal PC agenda continues to rapidly promulgate their agenda to the cultural and moral destruction of our country. Despite all the total ‘BS’ justifications, America has become something quite different than the pre-1960’s culture. And NO – NOT better. Our morals as a country are vanishing, we are still killing babies by the millions, drugs everywhere, HIV/AIDS & STD’s abound. In conclusion, if somebody wants to ‘stick their junk up somebodies tailpipe’ – do it in your bedroom – fine, BUT – don’t come into schools across this country and tell our kids it’s OK. Million of dead & dying babies & gay folks prove that is wrong!

          • Blake Paine

            I guess I don’t see giving people options and choices as a ‘nightmare’, but then I don’t see the issues you see.

            Today the annual abortion rate in the US is lower than the rate of illegal abortions in the 1950’s and early 60’ and is in decline. Students can still pray in schools, they just can’t be indoctrinated to a particular religion by government employees. STD rates are down from 50 years ago (the good old days) and your concern about ‘tailpipes’ ignores that the majority of people so interested are heterosexual men and women.

            Don’t listen to fake news, things are much better than they were just 30 years ago and will continue to get better.

          • getstryker

            Of course abortion rates are down – an ongoing Christian backlash and de-funding/closing of Planned Parenthood facilities is the major cause. Yes, you can pray in school – – especially if you’re a Muslim – – an hour or two on Christian history and days and days of Islam, dress up as your favorite Muslim, memorize Muslim prayers, etc. And now HIV/AIDS & STD rates – you better check those numbers again.
            I’ve been around a long time – I grew up when much of this was happening . . . don’t tell me or anyone else that knows and understands what has happened over the last 60 years – it’s a lie that things are better now – that’s total BS – we’re done!

          • Blake Paine

            No, there is no indication that the reduced abortion rates is due to anti-abortion actions, more that there are now ways to terminate early pregnancies without an abortion and people are getting better at avoiding unwanted pregnancies in the first place. Yes of course Muslim students can pray in school just as Christian, Jewish and anyone else can. And HIV rates are minuscule compared with the size of the populations at risk and STD rates are way down from the 60s and 70’s in general.

            And Since I was in SF during 70’s I think we are probably close to the same age. And no, its not a lie, you can go online and check graphs showing the incidence of STDs online, things are not nearly as bad as they were decades ago.

            But you seem invested in this made up world of dire portents since you don’t bother to find out the facts and reject them when presented.

            So we are done, we’ll just trundle on to that more perfect union without you.

          • getstryker

            Say Good Bye

          • Blake Paine

            There is no indication that all males are masculine or that all females are feminine. That is the issue. We know that there are people who are insensitive to the two sex-associated hormones; people with Y chromosomes that develop as female and male, those without it that develop as male and female with all range of differences between the extremes. We know that during fetal development that we all start off with female configurations and at specific times male characteristics are added as an overlay on that, particularly neurologically. That a person with a male body could have a more feminized brain structure and the reverse for women is not unlikely at all.

            And these people who might not be like you have to be the ones to figure out how they are going to deal with it. Allowing them this little thing benefits them, and even theists since it allows them to have the ability to decide for themselves without being forced to pick between ‘one or the other’ so that maybe, someday, they will decide they fit in one of those two after all.

          • getstryker

            I’ll say it again . . . slowly, this time.
            It’s not the ‘individual’ here that is the issue . . . they can ‘be’ what they want to be: boy/girl/it.
            The issue is that those in authority who set policy in education, government and media, etc., have accommodated those that promote a liberal agenda and created policies that allow, eg: ‘boys in girls locker and showers’, etc., totally ignoring the voiced ‘psychological and moral’ cares of students themselves AND their parents who object to no avail. These policies have led to men who ‘one day feel like a women’ to invade dressing rooms/restrooms, showers, etc. The ‘transgender’ accommodation is rampant in PC corporations/businesses across the country – done without regard to the fears of ‘girls and women and parents.’
            I’ve about come to the end of this discussion . . . the whole thing is ridiculous, PC policy has everyone bending over and grabbing their ankles for a tiny percentage of the population.
            You and your ilk seem to like it that way . . . millions of us don’t!

          • Blake Paine

            The acknowledgement of ‘life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness’ is a liberal agenda. The government treating citizens liberally is its function, it is its reason for being. It is here to serve the citizens, not the other way around.

            I still don’t see how it matters if someone is able to do something you yourself might to choose to do. This is a free nation and as my father used to say we have a right to do ’10 stupid things before breakfast’.

          • getstryker

            Well buddy, based on your comments, you’ve got to 10 in a big hurry!
            BTW – The role of government is to ‘protect the RIGHTS of it’s citizens’ – those ‘Rights’ are spelled out in the Constitution. The Constitution is NOT a ‘liberal document’ nor is it a ‘living document’ subject to change at the whim of a bunch of black robed folks with a liberal political agenda. True, the Supreme Court has abused it’s purpose for many, many years and liberal political parties and politicians on both sides of the aisle have allowed it to continue unabated – until now! Thank God, there’s a new Sheriff in town and things are changing. The ‘sleepy old broad and some other liberal dinks’ will be gone and replaced with Justices that uphold the intent and letter of the law. The ‘Dimwits’ may oppose the changes but they are coming!

          • Blake Paine

            I guess I don’t understand what you are complaining about, the courts have done nothing but uphold the constitution. And the rights of the citizen are to be free of unconstitutional government intrusion. Freedom of association, rights to privacy both are not stated in the Constitution but implied by its recognized rights – are you saying you’d like a system where they didn’t exist?

          • getstryker

            Of course you don’t understand. We all know that had Hillary won, our Constitution and Bill of Rights would be no more. Congress, under Republican control, will eventually remove & replace liberal Federal judges. Old liberal SCOTUS Justices will retire and conservative Justices will be nominated. As far as specific Rights not being stated in the Constitution, they are specific or implied. I might suggest that you peruse the 1st and 4th Amendment (peacefully assemble and unreasonable searches/seizures)
            The ‘Courts’ have failed miserably in protecting the Rights of Citizens . . . abuse of civil asset forfeiture laws, Freedom of Speech/Religion abuses ignored, etc. It goes on and on. Where does ‘same-sex marriage’ find a Constitutional legal basis or the so-call Right to Abortion? NO – I’d like a system where the Constitutional Rule of Law is adhered to and the intent of the Founders upheld! As I said – New Sheriff in town!

          • Blake Paine

            “Where does ‘same-séx marriage’ find a Constitutional legal basis or the so-call Right to Abortion?”

            Marriage -Contract requirements of the Constitution Winslow, 14th amendment requirement of federally recognized civil contracts.
            Abortion – Right to privacy. If a person could be forced to have a baby they could be forced to give up a kidney.

            Again, if someone has tricked you into thinking those things will change I feel sorry for you.

          • getstryker

            Yeah, I was around when it all happened . . . it was BS then and it’s still BS now. “things are a chang’n . . . it’s past time!

          • Blake Paine

            What do you think is going to change? The court will start making unconstitutional decisions?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            BODY IMAGE DYSPHORIA ……… a MENTAL illness ….

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Okay, and…? Your point being?

  • Enrico Yourfault

    It is rare for me to agree with a story posted here, but I think the people trying to completely obliterate their genders are a little bit unreasonable and over the top. I AM confused about what makes this a “Christian” story, however.

    • InTheChurch

      We were created by God, in his image and with purpose. you think God is wrong? he thinks so

      • Enrico Yourfault

        No, as I said, I’m agreeing that it is silly to avoid gender completely.

        • Blake Paine

          This is America, we all have the right to be silly. Allowing people to choose not to be identified as male or female covers everyone now.

          Some gender-fluid people settle down as ‘cis’ as they get older, isn’t offering them an option beyond ‘one or the other’ actually better even for those hoping they will pick their birth gender eventually?

          • Enrico Yourfault

            I’m very tolerant and understanding when it comes to the LGBT crowd. But I know where I must draw my line now…there are two genders. Pick one. But don’t say you are neither.

          • Blake Paine

            Attend a class about non-binary people and how the feel and react. You’d find out there are many genders. Forcing them to pick ‘one of two’ is just boxing them into a corner that I sure wouldn’t want to be put in personally.

            They might eventually come around to putting themselves into one of those two boxes, but I can’t think of a reason why they have to do it for me right now.

          • Enrico Yourfault

            Throughout nature there are two genders. If you “feel” more like one than the other, that’s normal, we all have male and female elements. And I don’t mean to trivialize transgenderism – I think it’s a very real thing. But no, I don’t agree you can just pick the one you feel like today.

          • Blake Paine

            We are confusing sexes: male and female, with gender: masculine and feminine I think. There are many genders, tomboys and sissies being two stereotypes of genders that don’t match the sexual stereotypes for those sexes. And our culture very much pushes people to ‘match’ their sexes.

            Allowing these pretty rare people to pick neither allows them the breathing room to explore their feelings. Again, make them pick one or the other and that is just encouraging them to make the alterations necessary to fit the category they feel they belong in.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “We are confusing sexes: male and female, with gender: masculine and feminine I think.”

            NO … you are the one trying to SOW confusion ……….

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            NO …………

  • InTheChurch

    He (biology) made a great point, he is not satisfied. He is not satisfied as a man and is not as a woman. The DMV license will not do a thing to change that. Good luck.

  • Vince

    If your driver’s license says you’re a ferret,
    you still aren’t one.

    Reality is not negotiable.

  • Lynn Mitcham

    Wicked

  • MCrow

    I don’t get why having the option to just not say offends people so much. I usually give out as little information as I can to various institutions, and when the option of “prefer not to say” is there for race or sex, is usually the option I choose

    • Amos Moses – He>i

      “I don’t get why having the option to just not say offends people so much.”

      ok, so in a world where we rely on IDENTITY and an ACCURATE description to IDENTIFY persons who are wanted ….. where the precision of law and the desire of LAW ENFORCEMENT is to be accurate …… and that information should as much as possible ACCURATE AND CORRECT …… despite what the applicant wants ….. we should opt for INACCURACY ………….

      this is a GOVERNMENT document ……what you do in your private dealings are not the issue …….

      • MCrow

        And the GOVERNMENT has decided that gender is not a factor they need. They have a photo, height, weight, name, eye color, and age.

        Also, if you really cared about accurate identification, you’d allow the person to use the gender they are going to appear as. Just saying

        • Amos Moses – He>i

          and the government is wrong …………………..

          • MCrow

            Your opinion is noted, but as a government document, they are the ones who decide what information is needed for any given document. As an ID, I find it’s far more useful to have information that can be used to confirm an identity. Tell me, from a strictly utilitarian perspective, what is more useful: being forced to write down an identity which a person disagrees with, does not live as, and is not known by, or simply declining it and using other traits as identifying marks?

            I’m not a lawyer or law enforcement officer, but I will assume no information is better than misinformation

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “being forced to write down an identity which a person disagrees with, does not live as, and is not known by, or simply declining it and using other traits as identifying marks?
            I’m not a lawyer or law enforcement officer, but I will assume no information is better than misinformation”

            seems you have answered your own question ….. misinformation is useless …… and saying a person has no gender lacks any truth ….. biology is truth ……. their beliefs are not at issue …. the truth is ….. and not what they believe the truth is ………..

          • MCrow

            “Biology is truth” is an ironic statement from someone so disparaging of science.

            This isn’t a question about biology, but how a government has chosen to make an identity form. Nothing you have said invalidates my points.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            i do not disparage science ….. i disparage FALSE science ….. just because a scientist says something does not make it science …………

          • MCrow

            I should believe you instead? What work have you put in to learning science? Academic courses, study, lab work, research? I have two researchers in my family. Their hard work and dedication to their profession humbles me constantly.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            i have a 20+ year career in medicine ….. but that is not the point ……. science that does not measure up to the truth is GARBAGE …………..

          • MCrow

            You should rely on medicine more here then. Also, science is in constant search for the truth. It is exploring and trying to find how our world works. It isn’t always right, and it changes, but you would expect that to happen as we grow in knowledge. We know more now than we did years ago, and that is thanks to science

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            if your point is to make government more difficult then you are on the way to achieving your goal …… and if no truth in government is what you want ….. again …. goal achieved ..

          • MCrow

            Stiiiiiill have not invalidated my points. And you make assertions without an argument.

          • MCrow

            Let me go ahead and break this down again:
            I’ve said having the option of saying “decline” on a drivers license is better than forcing someone who is transgender to identify as the opposite to how they identify. I’ve said this is because they will present, may well be known as, and state they are their identified gender, and if forced to register as the opposite, may cause confusion, where “Decline to state” it simply ceases to be a factor and the ID can be made through other methods.

            No information is not disinformation. It literally cannot be. Misinformation requires there to be information to begin with. And no information is better than misinformation.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            okay ….. but it is still just you using bovine scatology to convince yourself of bovine scatology …..

          • MCrow

            In school, did you get a lot of marks saying “lack of supporting evidence?” You’re not making any claim beyond “you’re wrong because I said so.” No offense, but I hardly consider you a reliable source

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “and saying a person has no gender lacks any truth ….. biology is truth”

            Gender is not biological.

            Gender: “the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones)”. Sure, the words ‘gender’ and ‘sex’ are used interchangeably in some contexts, imprecisely I think, but not in this one. That’s why “transgender” and “transsexual” don’t mean quite the same thing, for instance.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “Gender is not biological.”

            HORSE HOCKEY …….. stand for something … or fall for anything ……….

  • Fort Rock Rat

    Romans 5:20Amplified Bible (AMP)

    20 But the Law came to increase and expand [the awareness of] the trespass [by defining and unmasking sin]. But where sin increased, [God’s remarkable, gracious gift of] grace [His unmerited favor] has surpassed it and increased all the more,

    As Deep Demonicly Driven Sin Overtakes Oregon From The Highest Levels Of Government To The Average Individual, A Heavenly Presence Is Showing Up As Well.
    Several Places In The Umpqua Valley Of South Western Oregon Are Experiencing The Presence Of God In A New & Powerful Way. This Move Of The Holy Spirit Is Surpassing Denominational Boundaries & Traditional Formats Of Church.
    As A Result Many Are Being Saved, Set Free Of Their Addictions & Healed Emotionally & Physically.
    Then They Are Spreading The Fire Further.
    There Also Seems To Be An Increasing Hunger For Truth As A Result Of The Onslaught Of Darkness.
    These Are Exciting Times We Are Experiencing Now, As It Is Being Said…
    That This Is The Onset Of A Major Move Of God!!!

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    Western Coast seems to be over. Everyone should have rights to treat everyone according to his or her birth gender alone, not this. Truth has a right to exist. Installation of falsehood is the form of slavery. Once people bend to government’s lies( transgender, etc.), they become slaves to a bad government. Truth is the only key for human rights and freedom. John 8. The Holy Bible for freedom, both then and now.

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    Liberals want the increase of mentally ill people among the population so that they could always take control. People should read the Holy Bible and break free from the West’s liberals. Installation of falsehood like this is a clear form of slavery. The communists used atheistic rants for subduing the mass. Gay West uses Sodomy and transgenderism to do the evil.

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    Christian Western Civilization has been uniquely superior among mankind only because it was principle-oriented instead of mere-power-oriented like pagans or feeling-oriented like women. But if the West lets the feeling subdue the principles, nothing comes out right. Rule of the falsehood always brings abuses and slavery.

    USA should stop this madness at once and submits to the Creator God as the nation was created for that purpose. Men should not let other men become feminized for the purpose of protecting real women and children. Feminized men do not protect anyone, not even self.

  • ElevenHerbs Andspices

    A dude in a dress!?

    • Vince

      It’s a dress than identifies as a bag of Sugar Babies.

  • Chet

    So, LEO’s can no longer notify dispatch to ‘hold me out with a such and such vehicle, occupied four times with number one males, number two males or whatever. Now, they have to exclaim, I think it’s possibly occupied with four X’s or perhaps space aliens, cant tell… Crazier by the day, America is getting…

  • Well now, there’s something else for fundamentalists to obsess and abscess over. Why don’t you folks just push harder for a Constitutional Convention and change the constitution to make the U.S. a theocracy?

  • FoJC

    The Delusion continues to grow. Without God, people are so confused they are falling for the most horrendous lies imaginable. We cannot be saved from Sin is we decide it doesn’t exist. The False Light continues to grow around the world. Be prepared for more pressure, both socially and economically, from people who have given themselves to the demons promoting these types of things.

    Come LORD Jesus, come!

  • Jay Edwards

    Way to go, Oregoony! “confusion and every evil work” (book of James)