‘God Is the Judge,’ Hillsong’s Carl Lentz Tells ‘The View’ When Asked Whether or Not Abortion Is Sin

Carl Lentz of Hillsong New York recently appeared on ABC’s “The View,” where he was asked whether or not abortion is considered a sin at his church. While the answer was unclear, Lentz said that “God is the judge” and that he would prefer to know a person’s name and beliefs before making a determination as to whether or not they have sinned.

“Hillsong is seen as this hip, progressive church that’s drawn huge millennial crowds, but it’s still evangelical,” co-host Sara Haines stated to Lentz during the Oct. 30 broadcast. “So, where do you stand on social issues that young people are particularly passionate about, like gay marriage [and] abortion? Like, how do you address those types of things?”

“I think our job is still to help people—not necessarily change how they think—but try to point them to what God has said, what we believe the Bible [has] to say,” Lentz replied. “We believe that God is good, that God loves everybody, that Jesus was here to set people free, and that’s still the good news of the gospel.”

He said that he tries to allow everyone who would like to hear the message to come to Hillsong because sometimes evangelicals and others shut out those who disagree on the issues.

Bringing Lentz back around to the question, co-host Joy Bahar then asked, “So, it’s not a sin in your church to have an abortion?”

“Um, that’s the kind of conversation we would have—finding out your story, where you’re from, what you believe,” Lentz replied.

“Work through it,” Haines interjected. “Like, talk about things.”

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“Yeah, I mean, God’s the judge,” Lentz answered. “People have to live with their own convictions, and I think if I have to tell you…”

His response drew applause from the audience.

“That’s such a broad question to me. I’m going higher,” Lentz said. “I want to sit with somebody and say, ‘What do you believe?'”

“So, it’s not an open-and-shut case with you,” Bahar observed.

“Some people would say it is,” Lentz replied. “I think, to me, I’m trying to teach people who Jesus is first [and] find out their story. Before I start picking and choosing what is sin in your life, I’d like to know your name.”

As previously reported, Lentz drew concern earlier this year after photos resurfaced of photos of the Hillsong hipster slamming shots with Justin Bieber at a bar in New Zealand. Bieber and Lentz also took a bike tour during the visit, singing along to the Ludacris profanity-laden song “Move [Expletive] (Get Out the Way).”

“I’ve been drankin’ and bustin’ too/And I been thinkin’ of bustin’ you/Upside ya [expletive] forehead/And if your friends jump in/’Oh girl,’ they’ll be mo’ dead,” the lyrics read. “Move [expletive]! Get out the way!”

While Lentz bobbed to the music and sang out the tune alongside Bieber, he substituted the recurring curse word in the chorus for “please,” while Bieber used the expletive.

Lentz likewise received criticism year after he praised Oprah Winfrey following an appearance on her “Super Soul Sunday” broadcast.

“What struck me most about her, was her ease and kindness,” he wrote. “She told me her key was ‘waking up each day and thanking Jesus for loving me and thanking Him for all he has done.’ That practice, in that order, is one to be copied.”

Photo credit: Instagram

After followers pointed out that Winfrey is involved in New Age and denies Jesus as being the only way to God, Lentz stated that he didn’t like followers using his page as their “own personal theology blog.”

“Wrecks my picture and becomes almost embarrassing,” he wrote.

He also raised eyebrows after his interview with Winfrey was aired as some worried about his response to Winfrey’s question as to whether or not only Christians can be in a relationship with God.

No,” Lentz replied. “I believe that when Jesus said that ‘I am the way, the truth, and the life’—the way I read that, Jesus said that He is the road marker, He is the map.”

“So, I think that God loves people so much that whether they accept or reject Him, He’s still gracious, and He’s still moving, and He’s still giving you massive red blinking lights, for chances to take a right turn where maybe you’d take a left,” he continued. “But I believe God loves people, and that’s what this whole gospel is based on—it’s love. You take the love out of it, we’ve got a moral book.”

Lentz later said that he could have worded his reply more clearly as he really meant that everyone can have a relationship with God, and that Jesus is the way.

As previously reported, Hillsong NYC is a popular 8,000-member congregation, which according to the Australian headquarters of Hillsong, is “a contemporary pentecostal church.” It meets each week at Hammerstein Ballroom in Manhattan and the Wellmont Theater in Montclair, New Jersey.


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  • Robin Egg

    Just another apostate church in the making. Scared to death to name sin. They will be “scared to death” if they don’t repent.

  • NCOriolesFan

    I loved the video of their Israel tour and concert. I think the best way to answer the abortion question simply; it is the murder of a developing baby human. One should not to know the mother to tell her that too.

  • Foreverministries Lluvias de G

    Seems like every one create a god of their own.
    They explain their god to people that make them feel good where they are. A demon poses in the bible after his encounter with Jesus got set free and place back in society. Jesus came to deliver us from sin . He is clear on sin! Why we are not… ? the reason is that when we call sin what it’s sin ( You name it) for sure people won’t like it. I believe if hillsong start talking about sin, attendance will drop. In this day and age people tremble and hate when some talks about sin. Yes, let’s keep on sharing the Love of God, remembering that Real Love (Gods) cover multitude of sins. I am a sinner save by grace.
    I came to receive God’s love and salvation after He showed my sins in my face, all I could it said was, I repent for all of my sins please forgive me. Until a person face it’s actual condition IN SIN and repent on it, a thru relationship with God can not be establish.
    I highly recommend David Wilkinson’s talks on how to be free from any kind of sin.

  • Paul Watchman Dawsi

    Luke 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

    • Eldrida Urika

      What did he say that was false? I did not see him say anything, I saw his tell you what he does as someone who speaks to him about their problems. First of all those meetings are totally private between him and the person. It is when he speaks to someone that he can guide them with the bible scriptures. These would be non-believers if they went to him with a problem. He said nothing wrong and he never went against the word of God because it is how he does the Lord’s Work.
      You are judging what you can’t see but Jesus can. His heart. Jesus knows if the intent was evil and he is the one to decide who is right and who is wrong and because we can’t see each others hearts, we have our own beam in our eyes to pull out and never sin to have the right to judge someone’s sin.

  • Jen

    Beating around the bush, don’t want to answer so he don’t offend… he don’t know what he’s talking about..apostate!!

    • MCrow

      Correct term is “heretic,” actually. Someone with views diverging from established doctrine. I’m an apostate in that I’ve openly left religion

    • Eldrida Urika

      I saw it as a reasonable answer because it is about the individual that helps us know what they need and how the best way to help them through in a biblical manner. Each person is an individual and so are their problems. Following Jesus doesn’t mean there is no need to make sure because the approach does not have a PAT answer. There is no scripture that covers everything in one short effective answer. By being reasonable enough to state that it depends on the individual case it shows that he is not going to treat every person who comes to him, like they are not people, but that they are people who and need God.
      Without addressing the whole situation it can’t be something we have a scripture to fit no matter what it is about. There is no “one scripture fits all” so any church leader knows that it will be much harder to reach someone who needs comfort and to come to Jesus.
      I would be sadly disappointed if he said that it was a pat answer no matter what the situation is, because it can’t be. They need to know the whole thing about Jesus not just about their sin and how it will be punished. He wants to provide them with more Jesus than he would have been able to in that position.
      He stuck to his beliefs and did not betray Jesus by anything he said.

  • Crystal Walker

    The love of money is the root of all evil, and apostasy is included in the word ‘evil.’

    • MCrow

      “Heretic,” not Apostate

      • Eldrida Urika

        Except he is not a heretic, he is just of a different faith and uses the bible to help guide those the Lord brings to him. Jesus did the same thing by showing the different ways he spoke to the multitudes because of their different lives from the last village, and he used that knowledge to help them understand about sin. He didn’t treat the masses as if they were all the same either.
        As my other posts have said, those posters seem to want to look at this man as a sinner when he is not.
        Why should he ruin the discussion by giving a blanket statement about the things the world has a problem with, when he can be truthful and state that it is based on an individual instead of the sin and that by dealing with the individual and not regarding them as someone who sinned before putting who the person is and where they are from and how they started to sin, and when do they sin, and help them with understanding what Jesus said and how it directs our lives. It is supposed to be a guide not a book of strict rules and that is why it is able to be used by each generation as the Lord told us it would be.
        So how exactly did this man tell a lie about our Lord’s Word? He wasn’t teaching so he was telling them what he himself would do, which he didn’t say would be against Jesus, as it sounds like he is probably is pro Jesus.
        I’m a Christian and I don’t look for sin that is not necessarily there. You don’t like evangelists so you make them all about directing people to themselves instead of God and that is in no way true. Not for all of them.
        Some are true men of God and never ask for fame or glory but only to be able to speak of their God and spread the Joy they feel. There is nothing wrong with that because they offer everything they say without price. And the price is up to you if you feel directed to pay it.
        If this was about one preacher or another, it would be about the race or where he came from. but you still sound like you would not like him for one reason or another. I’m guessing it is because you are not of a faith that views Jesus as love and not hate. It’s a different view but it is still consistent with the bible and what Jesus told us in the gospel.
        He is not a Heretic or a false prophet. He is a man of God who has been directed by God to approach the people who need it in his ministry. You have no right to judge what a person has been doing when they obey Jesus and you have no way of detecting it either when there is nothing he said that is in the scriptures about not telling the non-believers about their sin without the whole story of salvation, and it sounds like that is not what they wanted him to do on their show. Without explaining about Salvation by repentance, you should not get into the sin because you need to be a follower to know what sin is, and why we should try to avoid it, not just wagging a finger at them and telling them how bad a person is and how they will go to hell because they sin. Without understanding the Gospel altogether, it makes it hard for anyone to have the desire to follow Jesus, especially when the world beckons as it does.
        This man is just a preacher of a different faith and nothing is more demeaning to anyone to be thought a heretic when it is only a part of our belief that is being disputed.
        Everything I’ve heard including their songs are about the love of Jesus and that all come to him because of the things we have experienced about him. Our testimonies. They are what makes a person consider whether to have faith in something not seen. It’s not like everyone thinks the same way and will automatically choose of their own free will to follow Jesus. Talking about it helps them understand that it is a personal relationship with Jesus that will make them believe and want to stop sinning because of who Jesus is and what he offers as a ‘prize’. Heaven. As well as the benefits of having God in our lives while we live on this earth. All it takes is to open people’s eyes to who Jesus is and what he represents to them to help them choose to believe. We should all be able to find something in our lives that was made better by knowing God. He blesses his children every day in one way or another.
        Your judgement are the way you will be judged because you felt you knew better than a person who is a man of God by his position of respect.
        I’m sorry MCrow, This was where i stopped because of what they have been saying here. I don’t like it when only one Faith’s views are in the comments because there are other beliefs that still stick to the bible, without always making sin the biggest thing instead of the things that make following Jesus worth giving up our sin. I personally would rather be guided by a man of God who treats you like you are a person too. Even God recognized that we were going to fail because of our flesh, that is why we were given Grace. ummm Really I am sorry MCrow!
        Blessings to all!

        • MCrow

          Just correcting the term. Apostate means someone who has officially left the church, where heretic is someone who wants to stay in the church but disagrees with the orthodoxy. I, for example, am an apostate as I’ve renounced my old religion. Most consider Mormonism a heresy as it is still nominally Christian but disagrees with established orthodoxy

          • Eldrida Urika

            O sorry, I thought a heretic was someone who actually spoke against the church and it was usually that the heretic was following the scripture incorrectly. I guess my rememberer didn’t. Thanks for clearing that up for us. Blessings!

  • Ken Tidball

    Yeah, it’s a convenient out when we try not to offend someone and God forbid that we actually call killing babies a sin! Surely there are circumstances where murder is okay? Sure don’t want to offend Oprah or negatively affect your church attendance! Cant stomach these modern, appeal to the masses super churches!

  • He’s murky to say the least on murdering unborn children but speaks out on racism, sounds like he’s politician, not a pastor.

  • Amos Moses – He>i

    one of the signs a “pastor” is a false teacher ……. is to be on Oprah or “The View” ….. and have them agree with that “pastor” …………

    • ThroatwobblerMangrove

      No True Scotsman fallacy.

      A pastor appearing on Oprah or any other show does not diminish his Christianity in any sense.

      • Amos Moses – He>i

        yawn …………. zzzzzzzzzz ……………. boring ………. ” does not diminish his Christianity in any sense.” ……. i will give you that one ….. you cannot diminish anything from ZERO …… play acting does not make one a christian ……… 0+0=0 ……….

        • ThroatwobblerMangrove

          Making up your own rules, as always. Your opinion does not a rule make. Unless you’d like to tell me where it says that appearing on Oprah’s show means you are no longer a Christian. I’d love to read that, personally.

          • TheEditor2866

            Ephesians 5:11 (NKJV) And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. Did Mr Lentz expose Oprah or the sin of abortion for what it is? Muse on that!

          • ThroatwobblerMangrove

            Why would I? The issue is whether appearing on Oprah changes one’s status as a Christian. That is what Amos is claiming.

          • Rodney B Rich

            ThroatwobblerMangrove, that isn’t what Amos Moses said, the comment was appearing on said shows and having the hosts agree with you about such issues is the problem, The hosts would not agree with anything I had to say I am pretty sure! It isn’t appearing on the show itself.

          • ThroatwobblerMangrove

            Here are Amos’s exact words (complete with over the top ellipses): “one of the signs a “pastor” is a false teacher ……. is to be on Oprah
            or “The View” ….. and have them agree with that “pastor” …………”

            I would like you, or ANYONE, to tell me what bearing appearing on a television show has on the legitimacy of one’s religion.

          • Anna Doe

            Don’t bother with these people, can’t you see the parallels with the gospel? Jesus used to eat with tax collectors and sinners . To the Pharisees, he wasn’t worthy to be called a Rabbi because of that. That’s exactly similar to your valid rebuttal.

            The people on this thread exactly know who they are and where they’re gonna end up if they don’t change theirs hearts to truly be like the Messiah: at his left on judgment day. Just leave these bunch of whitewashed tombs debate among themselves! Given how they think, I have no doubt they’d have been the first to shout back: “No! Not this man. We want Barabbas!”

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            reading into it what you want to believe …… not reading what was said …….. typical ………..

          • ThroatwobblerMangrove

            It’s the No True Scotsman fallacy when you try telling other Christians they are false just because they don’t play by your rules. You seem to need to hear this over and over from people.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ignored ……….

          • ThroatwobblerMangrove

            Thanks once again for the confirmation. Shutting you down clearly means shutting you up.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ignored …….

          • ThroatwobblerMangrove

            It doesn’t matter. Not interested.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            figured ….. that is why you are ignored ………..

          • ThroatwobblerMangrove

            You’re only irritating the other people here by saying the same word over and over.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            and you …..

          • ThroatwobblerMangrove

            Why don’t you try ignoring it then.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ignored …………

          • ThroatwobblerMangrove

            Having fun?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ignored …

          • ThroatwobblerMangrove

            I can’t imagine the level of the mind that would consider what you’re doing to be fun.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            back at ‘cha sport …………

          • ThroatwobblerMangrove

            No not “back at me”, I don’t sit here mindlessly typing the word “ignored’ as you do.

          • Eldrida Urika

            Don’t feel offended Throatwobbler as he is only being “an Amos” which he does to anyone who disagrees with him, even the obvious Christians that have a separate belief. I’ve never seen anyone be able to get through to him, so I try to let others know so they won’t get caught in his ‘ignored’ threads. Sorry I was late for you. Be sure to post it if you find the way. Good luck and God blessings!

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you mindlessly come here … to a christian site ….. to NOT talk about christianity …… and foment argument …….. because i guess you have nothing better to do with your time ….. dont believe in God …… your problem …. not mine …… i do not care …. not our job to convince you of the truth ………….

          • ThroatwobblerMangrove

            Why is it your behavior is so completely inconsistent with any Christian I have ever encountered? I am allowed to come here to make observations like that.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            then you have never encountered a REAL christian ………. you are “allowed” to do whatever you please ….. “I am allowed to come here to make observations like that.” ….. YUP …. ME TOO ……

          • ThroatwobblerMangrove

            “Then you have never encountered a REAL Scotsman”

            It’s comical at this point how easily you fall into it over and over with your own words.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “It’s comical at this point how easily you fall into it over and over with your own words.”

            again ….. back at cha …… you keep falling for the same piece of cheese …… when what you are implying …. does not apply to christians ……….. and really ….. my comment APPLIED TO YOU …… reading and hearing what you want to read and hear …… not what was written ……… but i guess you really do not have much of a life to come here and do that ………. just a suggestion …… My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic Season 07 ….. you might try it ….. it is about as brain numbing as your continued comments …….

            God created man which is required for all cognitive reasoning, including all scientific inquiry and logic, making my position ipso facto prior in the ordo cognoscendi ….. that means it is better than yours ….. Christ is better ……….

          • ThroatwobblerMangrove

            As long as you keep making arrogant, ignorant and totally unchristian statements about who is a real Christian and who is not, you will be a slave to the No True Scotsman fallacy. Is isn’t your place. And no one will ever listen to you. They will just consider you a zombie-like fundamentalist. Now if you would be willing to admit that some Christians believe different things you do but are still Christians, then you’d show a single sign of humility and people wouldn’t be shaking their head at your narrow-mindedness.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ignored ………….. again …. My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic ……….

          • I have to say this because it’s so funny. It’s the same thing every time, to each one of us bible-believing Christians: tell us all that we’re the only Christian they’ve ever met like us, no one listens to us, question our relationship with God, and tell us we should change just one thing we believe (in a desperate attempt to get us to compromise God’s truth – does that remind you of anyone or anything…consider the garden of Eden when satan used the snake to get Eve to disobey God on just one thing), note brother that this is all done while the person simultaneously hangs on our every word, follows us, etc., completely oblivious to the fact that it’s the God we serve Who is living on the insides of us that draws them, not us in our flesh.

            You’re spot on us usual as you’re led by God, not man. It makes me lol when a nonbeliever assumes they’re the authority on God and Christianity…as if.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            they only have about 4-6 arrows in their quiver ….. and all that is pretty much something they have read or heard on some internet site, like it is some monumental revelation that only they have to bring to us ………. and after they have expended all their arrows ….. they are out of any response ….. and the repeat button gets pushed ….. and they seem to think we have not ever heard anything like what they have to say … and it is about the hundredth or more times we have heard it ….. it is the assumption that we have no intellectual capacity to examine what we believe and what we KNOW ….. and all we can do is pity them ….. their growth is stunted …….

          • ThroatwobblerMangrove

            Well tune in then if you’re such a fan.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ignored ………

          • ThroatwobblerMangrove

            You go watch your shows then.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ignored …….

          • TruthvLIes

            Why is it your behavior is so completely inconsistent with any Christian I have ever encountered?

            That statement is rather vacuous. Amos could say the same about you but neither have any validity.

            Other christians are not our yardstick and never will be. They can show the way in part but if we want the whole there is only one path and that is Jesus and the Word of God.

            And as we do not know what christians you have encountered, it is doubly irrelevant.

            When you can show what is being said is inconsistent with the Word of God, then you can command a platform. Not until then. If you do that, be careful not to indulge in opinion.

          • ThroatwobblerMangrove

            I’m not the one sitting here saying who is and who is not a Christian. I am realistic enough to know that with as many denominations of Christianity out there, there are bound to be variations in belief. That doesn’t mean one is a Christian and the other isn’t. That is what Amos is trying to float here. It’s disgusting.

          • TruthvLIes

            Despite your attempt at justification, your statement is still vacuous.

          • Silas Jennings

            That means nothing.

          • TruthvLIes

            What is “that.”

          • IzTheBiz

            Hey dude! If you don’t want to convince someone of the truth, then why be rude? Stop dominating discussions with arrogant comments.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            LOL ….. Comments 160 …. the junior expert …… the topic here is christianity ….. not me …. but that is all many who come here want to talk about ….. now including yourself ….. so … ARE YOU A CHRISTIAN ………..

          • ThroatwobblerMangrove

            I would never make a statement as ridiculous as that. I’m not going to judge the authenticity of people’s faith based on the TV shows they choose to appear on.

          • Eldrida Urika

            What works of darkness is he promoting? I’m a Christian but I’m afraid I find Hillsong’s attitude to be aligned with a lot of my beliefs about Jesus. I can’t see how speaking in public about the gospel and the Love that Jesus has for all of us can be of the darkness. There is no evil in what he said, it is not darkness without evil. (scriptures available)
            He said not a thing that goes against God, as a matter of a fact he referenced Jesus as the one that must decide if some people are sinning.
            He never said he would advise the people who were gay or pregnant to stay that way, not once. He said it would depend on what he was able to learn about that person what he would advise which means he would refer to the bible to help them understand God’s Word.
            Why do you think everyone is sinning about everything. All of us are supposed to learn what the person has in their lives before we can help them understand the gospel and how it would affect their lives personally. It’s about using the bible as our life manual to guide us through our lives. It has to be for the person themselves, not for anyone else. Otherwise you can’t show how wonderful Jesus has made your own life to encourage them to believe and without that there is a lot less chance that they will turn to Jesus.
            If it is in the bible it is the Truth.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope … Christs rules … in scripture ………… not an opinion ……

          • Carol

            Amen. The truth of the word of God will stand when this world is on fire! Murder is murder.

          • ThroatwobblerMangrove

            Tell me where Christ speak about Oprah. Or any other television personality.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ignored ………..

          • ThroatwobblerMangrove

            Thanks, that’s all the confirmation I need.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ignored …………

          • ThroatwobblerMangrove

            I don’t care.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            again ….. figured ….. that is why you are ignored ………..

          • ThroatwobblerMangrove

            No one cares that you can type the word “ignored” over and over.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ignored …………

          • ThroatwobblerMangrove

            Your “ignoreds” have zero consequence. It’s over. You couldn’t answer the question and so you ran away. Bravo.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            more fun this way …………

          • ThroatwobblerMangrove

            This is fun for you? really?

          • Benita Swart

            true

          • Maxwell Edison

            The New Testament of the Holy Bible makes up the rules.

            Atheists make up their own rules.

            You are quite confused.

          • ThroatwobblerMangrove

            No one’s talking about atheists. I’m not the confused one.

            We’re talking about your fellow Christians and what gives you the right to label them false when they follow the same Bible you do.

          • Maxwell Edison

            Christianity has one definition. ONE. And the Bible doesn’t say it’s okay to tolerate sin.

            If you have any problem with that, that’s what it is. Your problem.

            This conversation is over.

          • ThroatwobblerMangrove

            And those people who are a different denomination than you are still Christians Too bad.

          • Eldrida Urika

            That’s right! But they can be very different in their beliefs that they show in public especially. Some can be loud and some can be quiet. But if we follow the bible we should not dismiss them as Jesus told us not to in scripture. The fact that there are 7 churches in Revelations shows there will be more than one denomination that is of God and we as humans can’t discern which is right as well as Jesus can. We should never demean anything that is about Jesus but keep it to others of our personal faith. There are 7 churches that are the followers of Jesus but there are others too.
            Jesus told us that we should never stop another Christian from spreading the faith when the disciples came to him and told him about another traveler who was doing miracles too, but was not a follower of Jesus. Jesus told them to allow anyone who is following God to help care for others.
            We should treat everyone well according to the bible so treating each other with respect comes from that.
            Blessings!

          • IzTheBiz

            It’s nothing to do with denomination, its got everything to do with being in a position to call out sin for what it is! Abortion is murder. That is not a matter for debate and if a pastor can’t say it for what it is, he shouldn’t be in a position of authority. There is a big difference between judging someone and saying what they are doing is sinful. God judges the heart and we are commanded to discern good from evil. It’s a commandment, not a suggestion!

          • ThroatwobblerMangrove

            Actually the conversation I was having DOES have to do with denomination. Amos was calling out “false Christians”, a blanket term he uses for Christians who do not believe exactly as he does.

          • Kent Aya

            Those that twist the word of God are fake Christians. Just like the PST Carl is afraid to mention a sin.
            Go read the ten commandments in Exodus, you will what is sin and which Christian is fake.

          • Silas Jennings

            It isn’t twisting the word of God if two different Christian denominations have different interpretations and understandings. With that logic, most people are “fake” Christians and still no one can agree who the “real” ones are. It’s time people dropped the arrogance and realized that Christianity needs to have room for different interpretations.

          • Kent Aya

            The Bible is our standard, murder is murder no matter how u interpreted it, Sin is sin, idolatry is idolatry.
            You can only interpret to suite your purpose which may be different from Gods purpose.
            God hate sin and evil, unholiness and corruption, therefore, any act within these is against God’s standard.

          • Chet

            It’s not the appearing before anyone that discounts one’s position, it’s one’s denial of Holy Bible truth as recorded while yet maintaining ones self to be a “pastor”… God’s Word is the final authority, not any man…

      • Maxwell Edison

        No True Scotsman fallacy.

        Christianity has no open definition. Fallacy does not apply.

        • ThroatwobblerMangrove

          If Christianity has no open definition (which it does, by the way) then you have no basis for which to tell someone else that they are not a true Christian.

          Haven’t REALLY thought this through, have you?

          • Maxwell Edison

            You have no earthly idea what you are talking about do you?

          • ThroatwobblerMangrove

            Is the question too difficult for you?

      • quickchange

        True as far as appearing on that show or any dialog in a public or private forum, but his calling is to speak the truth “in season and out of season” at that forum. In this context you speak the truth of God’s word be it popular or not to the hearer. This “pastor” failed terribly and missed a great opportunity to “speak the truth in love”.

      • Maranatha2011

        It does when those heathen audiences applaud you. Then you know you have compromised the Gospel of Christ sufficiently to make them like you, you have gone over to the dark side. A lukewarm Gospel is no gospel at all.

        • ThroatwobblerMangrove

          No it doesn’t. You cannot make up arbitrary rules to suit you about who is and who isn’t a Christian. I don’t have to ask but I’m sure I can guess that you’re one of those people who wouldn’t consider Catholics to be Christians, like many others here. Over one billion people who were among the earliest Christians and you don’t consider them Christian at all. Well, the rest of the world does.

  • Zach Brown

    I’d like to know how many critics here excerise selfless love and evangelism on a day to day basis. It’s easy to sit back and criticize and through names at him. This mans not perfect, who is. But he’s bringing the name of Jesus to thousands in a hopeless lost generation that needs it. He needs your prayers, not critiques. Remember “For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”

    • Jeff Zahorsky

      Is this an example of your selfless love and lack of criticism towards those who have expressed concern? Is this your, “judgment” of others?

      • Zach Brown

        This is not my judgement, this is my insight. Because I know that God is the judge and not us. ‘Let he who is without sin cast the first stone’ I’m not one for sugar coating the gospel. But when Jesus was asked trap questions by the Pharisees, he asked them a question or redirected it to prove a point. Jesus never gave them the satisfaction of giving into to their manipulative questions. I believe that’s what Lentz was doing. He didn’t say ‘No’ which then I could see everyone going after him. He’s doing his best to represent the love of Christ on national tv. I was unsure of Lentz when he began but after much thought, prayer and listening, I believe he’s ok. We’ll see him in Heaven and can chat more about it then

        • Maxwell Edison

          No, Zach. The Bible doesn’t say we should tolerate sin. It does say, however, we are to call out sin when it’s committed. John the Baptist did it. Peter did it. Jesus did it.

          Are you going to say we should be even holier, better than Jesus?

          • Anna Doe

            You’re already are holier, better than Jesus #sarcasm

    • TheEditor2866

      No Zach, what this man is doing is called compromising the Gospel!

    • Amos Moses – He>i

      “he’s bringing the name of Jesus to thousands in a hopeless lost generation that needs it”

      nope …. he is bringing a FALSE Jesus of his own making …….. an idol … not the same guy i worship ………

  • Weak and pathetic answer

  • charles raniga

    Be a man Lentz…Jesus offended people and wasn’t bothered about it. Jesus ain’t a whimp like you but a warrior..

    • Dina Le

      True statement

  • Kevin Grady

    He’s obviously in it for the money.

  • TheEditor2866

    And folk wonder why America is in the state that it is in. I have one word for this apostate and his cohorts…REPENT!

  • TheEditor2866

    This man is a heretic! What does a person’s life story have to do with anything when it comes to the issue of sin?! Will my unfortunate circumstances excuse my sin? A resounding no! It is only by the mercy of God that these kinds of men who call themselves pastors have not been struck by a bolt of lightning!

  • John D Jhnydee

    Candy coating and will not call what God calls murder SIN !!!!! 6th commandment “Thou Shalt not MURDER….

  • Anna Doe

    TBH, the first thing that came to my mind was a straight YES about abortion being a sin. Indeed, I was thinking about people who are cavorting and decide to abort because the child is an inconvenience. However, in rape and incest situations, as a woman, I don’t want to be a hypocrite and profess that I’ll accept to let that baby grown inside me. I know myself.
    We, “regular” Christians, spared by some life’s ignominies tend to think that everything’s black or white, but put yourself in the shoes of a gang-raped woman who becomes pregnant out of this ordeal for 5 mn and dare tell me that you wouldn’t think about abortion. Men, you know squat about feeling a life growing inside you for 9 months so think hard before answering.

    • Leeannm

      Really? Let me respond since apparently you have to be a woman to comment on abortion(women don’t make babies by themselves and men should have a say in whether or not their child lives) The worst case scenario is where every “for abortion” argument goes. The act of killing someone innocent is sin. Accidental killings still have to be repented of, according to the Word of God. So telling someone that it is a sin is not judgment, it is mercy and hope that they can repent and be saved! No matter the circumstances, or what the sin is in our lives, there is a way back from it. That’s what Jesus does. He heals our minds and hearts so we can be saved and live a better life here and in heaven one day.

      • Amos Moses – He>i

        Amen ………..

      • Anna Doe

        Learn HOW TO READ and UNDERSTAND ARGUMENTS, you Pharisee! I wrote about situations where a woman is RAPED, worse than that GANG-RAPED! So why are you rambling about men’s rights, in this case rapists, to have a say in their child’s lives? Do you really think they would want the kid? What is wrong with you? Didn’t they teach you at school how to interpret things in light of the context, they’re presented?

        Instead of being a sanctimonious legalistic hypocrite, if you’re a woman, go have yourself raped by 10 or 12 men and come back here and tell me if you’d want to keep the child? Better yet, as your Western brain seems incapable to imagine such horrors, make some Google searches about 10 years old girls forced to bear their pregnancy to the term after being raped? Better yet, imagine that it’s your daughter, your niece because that’s how you’re, you friggin holier-than-thou American Christians: if it doesn’t happen to your own backyards, you have zero empathy. It’s easy to philosophy about things when you aren’t confronted with them.

        And go read your Bible, meditate how Peter swears he would never abandon Jesus and learn some humility!

      • Anna Doe

        Learn how to read and you can report me again: you’re nothing but a Pharisee, full of righteousness and wickedness, so quick to judge and lecture that you can’t even properly read a comment.

    • Leeannm

      Also, killing the child because of who the father is? That’s like you being sentenced to death because your father or mother committed a horrible crime. We would never allow it. Every man is judged by his own actions, not the actions of others. Children should be allowed to grow up and have a chance at life because they are innocent of the crime that was committed against their mothers.

      • Anna Doe

        Spoken like a person who has NEVER EVER been put in that situation! I don’t care about what YOU think, at least I’m honest with myself and acknowledge my weaknesses.
        You make me think of all the holier-than-thou Christian that I met sometimes, whose lives have been a stroll in a park and who swear like Peter that they would never renounce Jesus if faced with death. Then, you tell them that if this is hypothetical to them, it’s been the reality of many Christians who live in ISIS-controlled stated and guess what? They kept their mouths shut because they are very well aware that all they ‘re good at is to appear pious is to spout platitudes when they aren’t faced with the situation. Go read again what happened with Peter in the Grand Priest’s house and dare come back here and huff and puff about what’s right and wrong! You may also read Gal 6:1-5!

      • Anna Doe

        Pharisee, nothing but a Pharisee, that’s what you’re, a whitewashed tomb!

    • trish

      I appreciate your honesty.
      And I can’t imagine how awful that scenario would be. I pray I never am faced with something so awful! May our Father grant mercy and strength to anyone so violated. Abortion is definitely a sin. And sins can be forgiven. No bigger saint in my eyes than a woman who could trust God to go through that situation and carry the child to term. Could I? Impossible to answer in advance. Our Lord gives us grace and strength and power in our trials but not ahead of them. Blessings to you sister.

  • Trilemma

    In the article here, Mr. Lentz did not say abortion wasn’t a sin.

    The approach Mr. Lentz described for talking about abortion with someone contemplating abortion is the true Christian approach. You don’t start the conversation with, “Abortion is murder.”

    • Amos Moses – He>i

      Why not …. it is ………. and there is no way for the christian to soft sell that essential truth …… and to soft sell it is to call scripture a lie ………. murder is sin …. the taking of a life of a child is a sin …….

      • Trilemma

        Why not? Because it’s a conversation killer. A teaching opportunity is lost.

        • Amos Moses – He>i

          nope …. they either hear the word of God and Christ or they reject it …… it does not kill the conversation ….. it begins it …… if they had no interest in the topic …. they would not be there to start …………..

        • SFBruce

          If you truly believe that a person’s soul is in danger of eternal damnation, it seems to me that avoiding conversation killers should be a particularly high priority.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Christ is the one who decides …… it is not either of the persons decision to be saved or to save ….. it is Christs …… it has nothing to do with the presentation or the person delivering the message …… it is not in our control ……. it is in Christs control …..

    • Maxwell Edison

      Correct. The conversation begins and ends with “Abortion is murder.”

      • Trilemma

        That’s not a conversation; that’s a sermon. Mr. Lenz is choosing teaching over preaching.

        • Maxwell Edison

          It’s three words of undeniable fact.

          • Trilemma

            Put down your silver hammer Maxwell, I’m not defending abortion here. I’m saying there’s a better way to get people to listen to you than by hitting them on the head.

      • Bob Johnson

        One could, as many did in the 1960s, say, “The United Staes Army is murder.” It doesn’t, and didn’t, help the conversation.

        • Maxwell Edison

          That’s an opinion that holds no relevance.

  • Mart1963

    getting rid of the ones who test positive as they have turned their heads to
    mush from their drug use and are bring their warped policy into the public
    arena.

    Every time a crack is put into a good law it soon will be smashed into
    pieces till the laws gone totally, case in point, the abortion law. It started
    out that abortions were legalized only in cases of rape and if the unborn human
    was a danger to the mother’s life and now it has become a free for all
    escalating into a commercial business where the unborn are farmed out to be
    experimented on or used for body parts. There is no longer any humanity for the
    unborn, they are frozen and a couple may survive if they are wanted the rest
    discarded, they are chopped up, they are experimented on.

    News flash abortions were still going on before the laws were passed but now
    it has become a big taxable business where the ghouls in their search for
    immortality dissect the young.

    Marriage:

    2 people marry together and produce a
    child. No such thing as a gay marriage because nothing marries together. Now in
    the States they are calling their children it’s because they no longer have any
    idea what their children are.

    News flash no gay people will be hurt by not legalizing gay marriage which
    is no marriages as nothing marries together except their wishful thinking. They
    still have the same rights as married couples and still can lived together
    protected by the law. How long before bestiality and child marriages are
    legalized because they love each other and you might hurt their feelings if you
    don’t

    Legalizing Drugs:

    Mental health problems increase with drug use and the biggest users of drugs
    are the LGBT community. Canada’s gay laws were passed and followed by the
    legalization of drugs. Make all people stupid and the majority will be up for
    all sorts of perversion

    News flash people don’t need laws to smoke dope but they do need laws to sell
    them in a commercial business which the government can tax.

    Euthanasia:

    So called mercy killing which is target the old and later the young who will be
    pushed into killing themselves legally by the government till it gets to the
    point that they have no choice. More money for the government if they don’t
    have to support the useless.

    News flash people do not need laws to kill themselves but the government
    wants laws in place to kill off the useless eaters. See latest article on the
    prince claiming there are too many people in the world, his father also said
    there are too many people and his father also said there are too many people in
    the world. Georgia guide stones recommend killing off 6.5 Billion to keep the
    population at 500 million.

    Whose interest are served with removing these laws, certainly not yours,
    wake up stupid before you are too stoned to understand the threat to your own
    lives and loved ones. Hitler did the same type of cleansing and you support him
    who by the way was the head of government and on drugs.

  • felicityva

    Jesus never said “Let’s talk about who you are, what you believe, and why you sinned”. Jesus said “Your sins are forgiven. REPENT AND SIN NO MORE”.

  • ZappaSaid88

    “…what we believe the Bible [has] to say,” – because the (supposed) creator of the universe wrote a completely ambiguous book. LOL

  • The General

    No longer evangelicals, but the Church of Demas, “in love with this world.”

  • Jim Price

    What a wolf in sheep’s clothing he is, unfortunately his kind are becoming to common in large so-called Christian churches, there are true-believers and make-believers, it is obvious which one this worldly man is. It is best to learn from Church leaders who were called by God to do so rather then learn from those who call themselves into Church leadership.

  • Maxwell Edison

    After this and the knowledge of homosexuality within Hillsong, I can no longer listen to their music.

  • ttown

    sounds like he’s shooting for the 9,000 membership to his church. Skirting the question so as not to alienate his target audience; millenials. shameful responses for a Christian.

  • Denny

    There must be something about The View that addles evangelicals’ brains. That scapegrace author Rachel Evans still identified as an evangelical when she went on the view to promote her reprehensible book Year of Biblical Womanhood. Apparently she was so in awe of those five left-wing shrews that shortly after she claimed she was no longer evangelical and became an Episcopalian. I realize that I am not the target audience for The View, but I can’t imagine any intelligent woman watching it for more than 5 minutes. Why on earth would you want to be liked by those women? Have we reached the point that people think “Well, they’re on TV every day, so they must be important people”?

  • BuckeyePhysicist

    The Church is not a Waffle House. Stop waffling on abortion!

  • Robin Erwood Watson

    He knows, he is just afraid to say it to them. What a great “witness” for Jesus.

  • Robin Erwood Watson

    evading the questions……I guess he would say “I dont know if killing a man is murder. God is the Judge”. NO NERVE NO BOLDNESS, He is just tickling her ears.

  • thushjz

    Jesus met the woman at the well who had had 5 husbands…but he also spoke blunt truth to her…

  • Lizop

    He’s a false teacher, apostate and a people pleaser. Make no mistake about it, this guy just wants the crowds to like him. He tries to cleverly design his words for the interviewer but he isn’t fooling God!!

  • Lydia Church

    Uh, yeah, and God said it IS A SIN. See: 10 Commandments.

    Boy, this ‘let God be the judge’ stuff has really gone off a cliff!
    God told us that we ARE TO JUDGE!!! WITH RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT!
    See: BIBLE

  • Charles Morris Ferguson Jr.

    “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces” (Matthew 7:6).

  • Charles Morris Ferguson Jr.

    One thing I have to say when you tell the truth it shows you truly love! We are to be the iron that sharpens iron of our brothers and sisters… be the salt of the world but not so much that it ruins it.

  • What a better world this would be if all Christians would simply leave others to think, believe and run their own lives as they want (as long as it hurts no one) and just be content to believe that they are going to burn in everlasting hell courtesy of your loving god.

    • Are you saying that abortion hurts no one?

      • Religious laws hurt everyone except those who push them. We do not live in a theocracy. We live in a secular nation that is governed by a secular Constitution. No matter how much you claim that the abortion issue isn’t about religious certitude, it most definitely is. No one’s religion should be allowed to control the reproductive lives of all women and no doctrine should be allowed to be pushed on all citizens.

        Abortions should be between a woman and her doctor. We must not have a preacher standing in between them and certainly not the government.

        I am far more concerned about poverty and education in the U.S. Most conservatives seem not to care about poverty and, in general, want to abolish public schools and/or forbid sex education in public schools and forbid or severely restrict contraceptives for women. These are programs that place a high priority on responsibility and consequence. They REDUCE abortions.

        I understand that many (most?) Christians believe their god forbids contraceptives. Fine! So, don’t use them. But leave others to follow the dictates of their conscience, not some ancient writings designed to control women and turn them in to little more than baby factories (back then they needed as many male children as they could force women to manufacture in order to build strength for future wars.

        • It was a simple direct question in need of a response of the same but yet you feel the need to bloviate and bluster your way through it.

          FYI…..Abortion is not only condemned by us Christians. There are those of other faiths and no faith that stand against abortion also.

          So can you please give a direct answer to my direct question? If not just say so.

          • Such a question cannot be answered simply because there are many reasons for abortions at various stages of pregnancy. I know that many Christians don’t like full explanations and only want simple answers. Religion provides those simple answers. But if you cannot understand what I said and understand my full position, I’m very sorry it was too complex for you. It is not a yes or no question.

            That abortion is condemned by other religions as well as Christianity is not a defense. Again, in the U.S., we do not live in a theocracy. Why can’t you understand that? Constitutionally, my views on abortion are as valid as yours.

            But to your point, your question is far too broad. Harm is often a matter of opinion. Where there is pain involved, it becomes more problematic. I don’t like any abortion (even after a child is born and becomes an adult, even though many Christians like the death penalty). But a fetus is not a human being. It is a potential human being.

            A viable nervous system forms at the beginning of the third trimester. Personally, I do not believe there should be any abortion of continence after that point. If a serious problem develops where the life of the mother is in danger, then I would support the abortion.

            But I am not a medical doctor. I highly suspect that neither are you. I leave it up to doctors to know the dangers and I leave it up to the woman to decide ON HER OWN what she wants to do under the circumstances.

          • You know as well as I do that no one but Islam is pushing for a theocracy and you also know that the overwhelming number of abortions in this country have nothing to do with the mother’s safety and everything to do with the safety of the baby because for every abortion there is a murdered baby.

          • First, talking about banning/outlawing abortions in this nation IS talking about making religious laws. That is only the first step. Then there are those talking about taking fundamentalist Christianity into the public schools and science classes throughout the nation. Then there are those pushing for monuments of the Christian “Ten Commandments,” crosses and creches on public property. How about removing evolutionary biology from science classes and teaching Bible in public schools?

            It is disingenuous to say that “no one but Islam is pushing for a theocracy” just as it is deceptive to say that the anti-choice movement isn’t about religion (though you have not claimed that–many do).

            To terminate a pregnancy, particularly before the third trimester is not killing a baby. It is terminating a prospective baby.

            I know that you will not change your mind and you will not change mine. Fortunately, there are far more people in this country who are on the side of choice.

            You can rage against the secular system all you like and your politicians can continue to deceptively make laws to undermine a woman’s right to control her own reproductive life, but so far, I think the tide is against you.

          • It is a scientific biological fact that life begins at conception with mitosis and in this case it is a human life and to abort that life is to murder a yet to be fully developed human being, aka a baby.

          • I can certainly understand your anger and frustration. But for those who believe in an omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent god, you might want to check some stats. There are at least the same number of miscarriages as there are abortions. On top of that, Sudden Unexplained Infant Deaths reached ~6500 in 2015 (You can find the stats at the CDC site).

            Do you consider your god an abortionist and a post-birth baby killer? Why would your god want to kill post-birth babies?

            The fact is that Mother Nature is at work here. And regardless of how much you want to believe that a zygote is a human being, it is not.

          • Adam and Eve were given by God all of His creation and by their sin they gave it to Satan and he is the source of all the pain and death in this world. No matter how much you want to believe otherwise that is a baby in the womb from the point of conception and there is no logical or moral way to get around that fact no matter what others may say.

          • Well, it is certain that your belief is cloistered behind high and thick walls built of ancient doctrine and the most powerful cannonballs of Reason and science will not scratch it.

            Enjoy your life. I’m very happy that your beliefs do not prevail over science and reason across the nation.

          • Christianity fits very well with science and reason and I am sorry for you that your heart is so hardened that you cannot see that. I pray you come to a God given realization of the Truth before it is too late for you.

          • BuckeyePhysicist

            As a scientist I can’t see how one can deny the Creator.

          • Amen! Praise God!

          • Interesting that you claim to be a “scientist,” yet you hide your identity. Want to provide believable evidence of what you claim and have the integrity to say who you are?

          • BuckeyePhysicist

            Online? Oh no. Not a chance.

          • I didn’t think so. Thus your statements are as hollow sounds in the wind.

          • BuckeyePhysicist

            No way am I going to identify myself online. That’s dangerous.

          • I don’t know why you are afraid. I honor free speech and I stand behind all my comments. Yes, I’ve had personal threats of bodily harm, but my integrity and honesty is paramount in my life.

          • TruthvLIes

            Integrity and honesty is paramount? What is your next joke. All you have done is spout the lies of the pro-aborts. There is no integrity or honesty in any of that. Totally deceived and the only one who cannot see that is you. Apart from the fact you make up anything to avoid the truth and the only one who cannot see that is you.

          • Lies? Please state one of my lies. Please note that a lie is a statement made by a person who knows the statement is false. So, where have I lied?

          • TruthvLIes

            Lie number one. Life does not begin at conception.

            Lie number two. A baby is not a baby until it has a viable nervous system (whenever that is).

          • Please post my EXACT quote. Life indeed does begin at conception, but not a human life. Where have I said differently. That is not a lie. Do some homework on sites other than religious sites.

            You are so eager to call someone having a different opinion, a liar. For your information, an opinion cannot be a lie unless it is refuting established, objective fact. Please check your morals for error.

          • TruthvLIes

            Yes of course it could be a monkey or a rabbit or a mouse or a donkey and somehow miraculously it morphs into a human but we don’t know when.

            May I suggest that you do some homework on sites other than atheist sites. That way you will avoid the embarrassment of purporting that you know what you are talking about.

          • I didn’t think you could provide the EXACT quote. So, you made an inaccurate claim. That is not an opinion, which makes it a lie.

            Again, enjoy your life of self righteous, willful ignorance.

          • TruthvLIes

            Again, enjoy your life of self righteous, willful ignorance. Ditto.

            And you still haven’t answered my questions.

          • Well well, it appears that we have some agreement. So, please tell me how Christianity agrees with evolutionary biology?

          • I have not studied evolutionary biology. Please feel free to expound.

          • Evolutionary biology brings us evidence that all species (including humans) present today evolved over 100s of millions of years to what we see today. It is in keeping with, and partly driven (natural selection) by, geological evolution (plate tectonics).

            The objective evidence is voluminous.

            What convinced me is both the volume of evidence and the scientific method–the most reliable method by which to find the best answer to questions on the existence of natural phenomena. This is the bedrock of science.

            Through physics and the scientific method, we know that Earth is roughly 4.6 billion years old. Too, we know by physics that our sun is a second or third generation star. Our universe (and our galaxy), is far older than Earth.

            But I digress (I’m fascinated by stellar evolution as well). Basically, the fossil record has convinced scientists the world over that all animal species have evolved from less complex species.

          • So where did it all come from and/or begin?

          • Evolution is not about the very beginning, although interesting experiments have produced some fascinating results in the formation of DNA in protein shells. But I’ve not kept up with it, so I don’t know where the research is at this time.

            But I know where you are going with this and I know you are looking for simple answers, but simple answers are most insufficient. No matter where I go would go with the ultimate origin of evolution, you can answer; “well, where did that come from?” I used to respond to that with; “where did your god come from?” To which the most usual answer was; “Well, God has always existed.”

            So, rather than rewrite my full explanation as to why I am not only convinced by science that evolution is true, but by logic, I’m convinced that a god is not necessary for existence, I’ll give an excerpt from my novel. It is a response to an accusation from a preacher targeting a professor of evolutionary biology stating;
            —————————————————————

            “Professor,” he said, apparently giving up on the End Times argument, “you wrote that, ‘blind religious faith is irrational, but then, so seems existence itself.’ So, you’re saying that your faith in evolution is just as irrational as my faith in God?”

            To which the professor responds;

            “Firstly, I do not have faith in evolution. I believe evolution to be true because I accept the voluminous body of evidence obtained by objective research and corroborated independently by virtually every field of science. Most people of faith believe their religion is true because, when they were children, it is what they were taught.

            “Accepting evolution to be true requires an acceptance of the evidence for its truth. Faith requires only that a believer believes any particular proposition for any number of reasons, but objective evidence is not one of them.

            “Secondly, if you will recall the context from which you quoted, I’m saying that the most perplexing question of all is not, ‘Does God exist?’ but, ‘Why is there anything at all?’ I am musing about the origin of existence. It’s an unanswerable question, really, but it’s nonetheless fascinating to ponder, at least for me.

            “What I am saying is that, even as my mind reels in awe at existence itself—even as I am staggered by the breathtaking improbability of it all, I cannot conceive of a conscious, intelligent being at its foundation.

            “And, to assume that such an intelligent being—a god—is the cause of existence, is no answer at all, even if you do agree with the concept that this god caused Itself to come into existence. Whence did it come by all the knowledge it needed to create anything?

            “In my humble opinion, it is more reasonable to accept the possibility of the eternal existence of energy, manifesting in one form or another, or even to believe in energy as self-causing, than to suggest that a thinking mind, consisting of nothing, coming from nothing, popped out of nowhere, into nowhere, thought about it, then made it somewhere.

            “For there to be a thought, or even a popping into existence, logic would say there must first be motion, and that which is in motion would have to become organized. There must be a causal link from movement to organization before a thought can organize.

            “And, for there to be motion, of course, there must be something that moves, which would necessarily be something energetic. There is an energetic precondition, Reverend, for every thought and memory in your head.

            “So, to boil all this down to its base element, even though I believe both propositions—existence caused by a god, and existence caused by no god—are irrational, I think the existence of an eternal energy field is less so because we know the energy field exists. We are a part of it. We have the observable evidence of its existence.”
            ———————————————-

            Now, I would truly appreciate a rational debate from you and not just another attempt for a simple answer.

          • I am a simple man that believes and knows that God is real and that He alone is the author and creator of mankind and the universe we are in. I believe and know that His Word is Holy and True and that His only begotten son Jesus came to us with the expressed mission to redeem mankind from theirs sins by accepting the punishment that we deserved. I believe and know that He died, was buried and rose from the grave 3 days later just as He said He would and that He is alive to this day and coming back to settle accounts and take with Him back into Heaven those who are His just as He said He would. I know what you think about all of this and because of that I feel sorry for you and I know what you think of that also. Ii all boils down to faith and through that faith believing. I know my Savior is real, alive and I know His love for me.

          • And I feel sorry for you. There are so many logical problems with the Bible that I cannot suspend logic and facts in order to believe it.

            However, I think you unwittingly contradicted yourself. You said that you “believe and know . . ” And then you say it is a matter of “faith.” Epistemologically (with regard to the specific meanings of words), if you “know” something is true, then you don’t need to have “faith” that it’s true. Believing without objective knowledge is faith.

            So, I would suggest that you stick with faith and not claim to know that what is written in the Bible is true. And that’s fine.

            Of course, I cannot tell you what to think. You are free to think and believe anything you wish, just as I. I do love freedom of conscience and speech. I know you do as well.

          • Romans 1:16-17New King James Version (NKJV)

            The Just Live by Faith

            16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ,[a] for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”[b]

          • Then hold it close to your heart, especially Matthew 25:32-46. Try to accept universal empathy and benevolent reciprocity clearly stated in Luke 6:31: And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. (The golden rule).

          • TruthvLIes

            If I had a dollar for every time I heard or read an atheist say there are many logical problems with the bible I could afford to buy a new Porsche.

            Yet when I ask what they are the reply is usually zero, zilch.

          • TruthvLIes

            I wonder if hobbesianworld knows that he is talked about in the bible?

            it says that the natural man cannot discern the things of the Spirit and every post of his is an exercise in the natural trying to discern the supernatural.

            it ain’t going to happen so all his words are a waste of time because the fact is God is not impressed by them because all he is doing is saying look at moi.

          • They try very hard to explain the world and universe we are in without God in the equation and the irony is it is that very Creation that proves that God is real and it all came from Him.

          • TruthvLIes

            I don’t know about you Doug, but I don’t have enough faith to believe all the diversity and complexity of this world came about when “poof” the big bang suddenly happened and there it was.

            In other words, everything came from nothing in one big “poof.”

            So laughable. I bet our resident atheist is going to come up with some fanciful explanation to try and prove that is not how it happened. If he does, he is going to have to explain away the thousands of atheists who have said as infinitum that is how it all happened.

          • TruthvLIes

            From goo to you via the zoo. now that is what I call scientific.

          • But you favor the “Poof Hypothesis?” That’s what I call irrational.

          • TruthvLIes

            I don’t favour any theory especially one that involves poofters.

          • Creationism/Intelligent Design is not a theory, it is what I call the Poof Hypothesis.

            All Scientific theories were at one point hypotheses as well, but were subjected to the scientific method–a system that requires rigorous experimentation, validation of predictions of what the experiments will render, publication of the exact method of experimentation and an in-depth analysis of the results, duplication by independent scientists who design other experiments of their own as they try to invalidate the hypothesis. Only after years of this experimentation and the hypothesis cannot be proved to be wrong is it determined to be a valid scientific theory.

            There are many Christians who “compatiblize” the Genesis creation story with evolution, suggesting that the “days” were actually millions, if not billions of years. As for the specifics of human origins, they simply say that the process how God actually did it was not given, and science has found that process.

            There are, however, logical problems with that as well, which we can discuss if you wish.

          • TruthvLIes

            Ha ha. I do like evolutionary fairy stories. Christopher Hitchens said before he died that the earth is 13.2 billion years old so you are behind the eight ball on that one.

          • Rich

            Sir, how did everything come from nothing? When does life begin? What is the point of life if we are just here by random chance or seeded by an asteroid? Where do our morals come from? Because monkeys, dogs and zebras don’t have them, they have instincts.
            Why is there ample evidence for micro-evolution but NO evidence for macro-evolution?
            Anyway, if your scientific beliefs give you comfort, then you will rot and be eaten by worms when you die and that will be that.
            I believe in eternal life, given by Jesus Christ and if I am wrong then I will rot and be eaten by worms when I die and that will be that, but until I die, I live in hope and wonder and marvelous expectation of living in eternal glory with my Father in heaven.
            Who therefore has a greater hope in this life?
            I think I’ll pray for you. If anyone who calls themselves Christian on this site has hurt or offended you, then I am truly sorry for the hurt they may have caused you, but we are human with all its foibles as well as forgiven. Take care Sir.

          • TruthvLIes

            Rich, he wont answer your questions the same as he won’t answer mine because he can’t. He makes things up as he goes along to save face at saying things that have no evidence or credibility so he is left floundering in his faux scientific intelligence which he considers superior to what God says.

            So blind and so stupid.

          • Please forgive the lengthy reply, but your post cannot be answered briefly.

            How did everything come from nothing?”

            I’ll address this specifically in a moment. But that is, of course, the age old question, isn’t it? It begs the question; Whence did god(s) come? You can of course, say that it has, or they have, always existed, depending on the religion you were taught and nurtured to believe.

            You ask a barrage of questions indicative of someone who has never studied objective science. It would require writing several books to sufficiently explain the state of science today for those completely without objective knowledge, and the number of books already on the shelf is voluminous.

            Where you seriously interested–judging from your excellent articulation that you are educated, but not in science–you would have the personal integrity to actually avail yourself of those books. I’d suggest first, however, to google the “scientific method” to learn why it is the best method to discover the best answers to questions dealing with natural phenomena.

            So, no, science does not have the answer for everything and it most likely never will (which is a good thing). Nor does it address the moral constructs of society’s various religions. But when one argues against any scientific proposition, it is a matter of intellectual integrity that one must know something about that which he argues against.

            But the bottom line for religious fundamentalists/evangelicals is that no matter how much evidence science discovers through the rigorous scientific method, they are going to reject all the objective reasoning, all the physics, all the logic and independent verifications for what they were taught to belive from equally ignorant (non pejorative) parents and society since they were tots.

            Why is there ample evidence for micro-evolution but NO evidence for macro-evolution?

            You see no evidence because you don’t want to. You haven’t studied the matter from professional scientists in specific fields. Your questions prove it. But that’s normal for millions of good folks. It takes time and energy to study scientific ideas, hypotheses and theories. Most folks just have too much to do working to feed the family.

            All I can do is offer my opinion, which likely will be rejected anyway. So, rather than write it out again, I’ll give you an excerpt from my book:

            “Professor,” he said, apparently giving up on the End Times argument, “you wrote that, ‘blind religious faith is irrational, but then, so seems existence itself.’ So, you’re saying that your faith in evolution is just as irrational as my faith in God?”

            “No. Firstly, I do not have faith in evolution. I believe evolution to be true because I accept the voluminous body of evidence obtained by objective research and corroborated independently by virtually every field of science. Most people of faith believe their religion is true because, when they were children, it is what they were taught.

            “Accepting evolution to be true requires an acceptance of the evidence for its truth. Faith requires only that a believer believes any particular proposition for any number of reasons, but objective evidence is not one of them.

            “Secondly, if you will recall the context from which you quoted, I’m saying that the most perplexing question of all is not, ‘Does God exist?’ but, ‘Why is there anything at all?’ I am musing about the origin of existence. It’s an unanswerable question, really, but it’s nonetheless fascinating to ponder, at least for me.

            “What I am saying is that, even as my mind reels in awe at existence itself—even as I am staggered by the breathtaking improbability of it all, I cannot conceive of a conscious, intelligent being at its foundation.

            “And, to assume that such an intelligent being—a god—is the cause of existence, is no answer at all, even if you do agree with the concept that this god caused Itself to come into existence. Whence did it come by all the knowledge it needed to create anything?

            “In my humble opinion, it is more reasonable to accept the possibility of the eternal existence of energy, manifesting in one form or another, or even to believe in energy as self-causing, than to suggest that a thinking mind, consisting of nothing, coming from nothing, popped out of nowhere, into nowhere, thought about it, then made it somewhere.

            “For there to be a thought, or even a popping into existence, logic would say there must first be motion, and that which is in motion would have to become organized. There must be a causal link from movement to organization before a thought can organize.

            “And, for there to be motion, of course, there must be something that moves, which would necessarily be something energetic. There is an energetic precondition, Reverend, for every thought and memory in your head.

            “So, to boil all this down to its base element, even though I believe both propositions—existence caused by a god, and existence caused by no god—are irrational, I think the existence of an eternal energy field is less so because we know the energy field exists. We are a part of it. We have the observable evidence of its existence.”

            I hope that sufficiently lays out my opinion on the matter.

          • TruthvLIes

            We don’t want your opinion. We want evidence but all we get is your opinion for this and your opinion for that and your opinion for the other.

          • I see that you are speaking for everyone here. So, you want evidence of the origin of life and everything? All I can give you currently is electromagnetic radiation, a component of which is the cosmic microwave background.

            To date, theoretical physics has made advances in computer models that suggest the existence of the mulitverse. But I know that you don’t buy any of that. You don’t believe any science that tends to step on your theological toes.

            So I can, at least provide circumstantial evidence, as I mentioned in my previous post–that you, of course, rejected.

            So, please provide me your OBJECTIVE evidence of the origin of your god, or even of its existence (I don’t want your opinion even though I know it is all you have).

            The fact is that neither you nor I can give objective evidence to the origin of existence, and I’m quite sure you know that. Anyone with a molecule of education in science or logic would know that.

            Still, you prefer to believe ancient writings from the time of myth and fable when the earth was flat and the stars were the camp fires of the gods (or some such).

            I prefer to accept the voluminous evidence science has provided relative to stellar, solar system, geological and biological evolution. You want evidence of these? Get an education. Your library is close by and OBJECTIVE science sites are plenty online.

            I like honest people and honest, intellectual debate, no matter what my interlocutors believe. I don’t like to condescend. But I do become frustrated when I’m trying my best to reason with someone who simply refuses to demonstrate an intellect above that of an automaton–or a sponge.

          • TruthvLIes

            Here we go again……Circumstantial evidence.

            Circumstantial evidence will not hold up in a court of law. I know what I am talking about because I have taught law.

            Circumstantial evidence has to be backed up by concrete evidence or the case will be thrown out.

          • I see that you ignored my challenge. Not surprising.

          • TruthvLIes

            More pro-abort claptrap. You are in denial buddy, like anyone who is pro-abort.

            There is nothing religious about banning abortion. It is a life and death matter espoused by people from all walks of life, Christian or otherwise, but pro-aborts are in denial about this because it queers their pitch.

            There is no such thing as an anti-choice movement. You are talking about the pro-life movement which is quite different. Anyone who is anti choice focuses on the mother. The pro-life movement focuses on the baby’s right to live. You seem so ill informed.

            For your information EVERY ABORTION KILLS A BABY. That was said by Bernard Nathenson who was America’s foremost abortionist before he saw the light and converted to Christianity and gave up killing babies.

            So do tell me when does a prospective baby become a baby?

            The last few polls show that more people are against abortion than for it, especially amongst young people. So the evidence is that the tide is turning and is going for us.

          • As I replied to Doug, I can certainly understand your anger and frustration. But for those who believe in an omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent god, you might want to check some stats. There are at least the same number of miscarriages as there are abortions. On top of that, Sudden Unexplained Infant Deaths reached ~6500 in 2015 (You can find the stats at the CDC site).

            Do you consider your god an abortionist and a post-birth baby killer? Why would your god want to kill post-birth babies?

            The fact is that Mother Nature is at work here. And regardless of how much you want to believe that a zygote is a human being, it is not.

          • TruthvLIes

            More pro-aborts spin and distorted thinking.

            So do tell me when does a prospective baby become a baby?

            So how do you know more than abortionist Bernard Nathenson who aborted thousands of babies and who said “EVERY ABORTION KILLS A BABY.” Surely you are not saying he does not know what he is taking about?

            In your ignorance and your propensity to blame God for everything, even though you probably believe that he does not exist, it is not Mother Nature at work. It is Mother Nature that has been ruined by man’s sin that is at work.

            And regardless of how much you want to believe that a zygote is not a human being, it is until you can prove it is not which you can’t.

          • So do tell me when does a prospective baby become a baby?

            In my opinion, when it evolves a viable nervous system–about the beginning of the third trimester.

            So how do you know more than abortionist Bernard Nathenson

            I know that you don’t recognize that this is an argumentative fallacy (appeal to authority). His opinion on when a fetus becomes a baby is not an official scientific assessment. When a fetus becomes a baby is purely a matter of opinion. Your opinion is that a fertilized egg is a human baby (a human being). Mine is not and nor is it the view of many, if not most, biological scientists.

            But you are diverting from the real issue against which I am being confronted–the anti-choice movement is a religious issue.

            In your ignorance and your propensity to blame God for everything, even though you probably believe that he does not exist . . .”

            Now that comment was quite entertaining in it’s complete disregard for logic. You are quite correct that I do not believe in your god, but to say that I blame your god all the same is as ignorant and nonsensical as any statement could be. If a person does not believe that a thing exists, then how the heck can he blame it for anything? Really! A professor of critical thinking (informal logic) would give you a huge “F.” after then entire class ceased to laugh at you.

            And regardless of how much you want to believe that a zygote is not a human being, it is until you can prove it is not which you can’t.

            I’m waiting for your evidence of scientific consensus on the view that a zygote is a human being having all the appropriate rights of a human being and it is murder to about it.

          • TruthvLIes

            “In my opinion, when it evolves a viable nervous system–about the beginning of the third trimester.”

            So one day it is not a baby and the next day it is? So how do you know which day that is? And thank you for being honest it is your opinion, it is not fact.

            “So how do you know more than abortionist Bernard Nathenson”

            Your answer tells me very clearly that you do not know more that Bernard. That all you are doing is clutching at straws.

            For your interest, when you are butchering and pulling babies out of the womb every day, it does not take too much intelligence to work out what a baby is so his assessment is not an opinion. it is derived from fact the same as what the medical profession says. A scientific assessment is irrelevant as scientists don’t bring babies into the world or butcher them in the womb.

            As I am not involved in the anti-choice movement I cannot comment on its modus operandi.

            Saying that God does not exist and then blame him is total logic but as you do not seem to have much of that I don’t expect you to understand. So far all you have given us is your opinion which in most cases is not logical.

            And I am waiting for you to prove that a zygote is not a human being as you made the claim first and I am told by atheists you have to prove it if you raised it first.

          • It is interesting to me how quick fundamentalists Christians are to condemn others for what they believe are “sins,” but have no problem at all bearing false witness themselves (a cardinal sin).

            Of course most Americans are against abortions. But most Americans believe it should be up to the woman and no laws should restrict it.

            Google the following:

            Gallup poll 1576 abortion Gallup Historical Trends

          • TruthvLIes

            Typical pro-abort. When you can’t refute the truth, introduce a red herring and avoid the the truth because you can’t handle it.

            What’s new I say, what’s new.?

            Still waiting for answers to my questions. Your silence speaks volumes.

          • LOL! I figured that you would not respond to the gallop poll. You have your beliefs and they will trump (pun meant) facts every time.

            The last few polls show that more people are against abortion than for it, especially amongst young people.

            I gave you my OBJECTIVE source, now show me yours and stop obfuscating.

          • TruthvLIes

            Still waiting for answers to my questions.

          • So do tell me when does a prospective baby become a baby?

            Answered. Read what I said.

            What’s new I say, what’s new.?

            Same answer. a viable nervous system.

            No wonder you are still a fundamentalist, you have very poor reading comprehension and critical thinking skills.

          • TruthvLIes

            And you have medical evidence for this or is just your opinion.

            I will refrain from the sarcastic criticism that seems to be your forte as I don’t want to descend into the gutter like you seem to be an expert at.

          • Sir, no matter what I say, you will disagree. I am convinced that a fetus becomes a baby once it can live outside the womb, and, according to Johns Hopkins, “A fetus born at the end of 24 weeks may survive in a neonatal intensive care unit.” Again. Third trimester.

            Forget replying with more opposing opinions because it is useless. You believe that a zygote is a baby. I do not. It is a baby when it can survive outside the womb. Some doctors will disagree. Some agree.

            If you want to make a law based on your religious view, then let’s argue the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. If you want to make a moral case, then I would say that it is immoral to force a woman, at least in the first two trimesters, to keep a baby when it is a matter of her life or death or when the baby is dead or severely deformed. And those questions are purely up to her and her doctor.

          • TruthvLIes

            More obfuscation to avoid the answer.

            Last time you said it was a baby when it has a viable nervous system in operation. Now you say that it is a baby once it can live outside the womb.

            So when can it live outside the womb. Babies have been born at 22 weeks and have lived. Babies have been born at 24 weeks and have lived. Babies have been born at 26 weeks and lived. So that puts paid to John Hopkins views.

            So at what point can it live outside the womb in your opinion and I ask this advisedly because you have no medical facts to back you up?

            And I am still waiting for the medical evidence for a viable nervous system. So far you haven’t answered one single question I have asked and if you have it is your opinion, not backed by medical evidence which you seem to avoid assiduously.

          • Geez, Why don’t you get an education?

            Last time you said it was a baby when it has a viable nervous system in operation. Now you say that it is a baby once it can live outside the womb.

            If you can count, 24 weeks IS the beginning of the third trimester AND the point at which survival outside the womb becomes probable. You want easy answers and don’t want to take the time to research what scientists and doctors think.

            So enjoy your life of willful ignorance.

          • TruthvLIes

            Another one of those silly “why don’t you get an education” slur. FYI, I have got myself an education. One theological degree and three university degrees, so put that in your pipe and smoke it. How many university degrees do you have?

            Medical practice proves you wrong. Babies have been born at 22 weeks, put in an incubator and have grown up to be humans.

            According to your theory a baby born at 22 weeks is not a human so what do babies born at 22 weeks grown up to be. Monkeys or according to your theory what happens to a baby born at 22 weeks which is not a baby to make him a baby at 24 weeks two weeks after birth.

          • Yes, some have been born and survived at 22 weeks. Most die at 22 weeks. Most born at 24 weeks survive. I never said it was exact to the day or week. I said “about,” meaning approximately. With all your degrees, I would think you would understand that.

            But, since you seem to think that society should force women to carry a fetus to term, then after the baby is born, does society have any concern whatsoever of its quality of life? Should society care if it is starving? Should society care if it lives in a poverty stricken environment and is psychologically molded by the same?

            What if the baby is severely deformed or perhaps mongoloid due to incest. Does society have any obligation to help the mother raise the child?

            Or once a baby is born, no matter what the circumstances, society’s duty is done–sick or swim?

          • TruthvLIes

            More nonsensical pro-abort rationalisation and once again refusing to answer my questions to avoid the truth. Such a sick and ill informed commentator.

            You admit some have been born at 22 weeks and survived so what are they of they do not become babies until 24 weeks? Can’t or won’t answer because to do so would blow your theories out of the windows.

            Dear boy, you keep repeating 24 weeks so 24 weeks is 24 weeks, not 22.

            I have never, ever said any woman should carry a fetus to full term.

            All your what ifs are totally irrelevant as 98% of babies killed in the womb are normal healthy babies and are killed because they inconvenient to a selfish woman.
            Pregnancy Support Centre which is a part of a large number of them throughout the country, and it is obvious you haven’t, I am pleased to say we don’t allow cynics like you to foist your negative rantings on us. We will do what we do very well and that is to help women through thier pregnancy and help the get established once the baby is born. Something that the pro-aborts refuse to do.

        • TruthvLIes

          “Abortions should be between a woman and her doctor. We must not have a preacher standing in between them and certainly not the government.”

          I have heard this arguement so many times fro pro-aborts it is unbelievable that it is still being used as it has been shown to be total rubbish.

          it only goes to show how totally selfish adults are.

          When a woman invites a man to have sex with her, the outcome is divided between three people. The woman, her sex partner and the baby.

          Having been involved in a Pregnancy Support Centre, in most cases, the father of the baby he created is treated with total disdain. The mother gave him the right to impregnate her so he has as much right to have a say as she does.

          Many men are traumatised for years to come because their offspring was murdered in the womb against his wishes.

          In addition, if their sexual liaison has produced a baby, it has every right to live as it did not choose to be conceived. To conceive a baby and then say “I don’t want you so I am going to have you killed” is the height of cruelty and selfishness.

          The fact is the majority of babies killed in the womb are killed because of the mother’s selfishness because she refuses to take responsibility for her actions.

          Ad the fact is that only about 1% of mothers have legitimate reasons for having abortions. It was legalised for these reasons and like all matters of life and death, a slippery slope always follows.

          In my State, the government has made it law that a woman can have their baby murdered for any reason whatsoever at any time. Even babies born because of botched abortion are allowed to die in the trash can and no one bats an eyelid.

          • I have heard this arguement so many times from pro-aborts it is unbelievable that it is still being used as it has been shown to be total rubbish.

            Yes, I’m sure you have. It is called FREEDOM. Conservatives get their paints in a bunch over any perceived encroachments of what they believe to be their “rights,” believing that their ancient scriptures give them the authority to mold society according to their beliefs.

            I do wish you could simply hang on to those beliefs, but refrain from micromanaging the lives of others–by government intrusion.

            When a woman invites a man to have sex with her, the outcome is divided between three people. The woman, her sex partner and the baby.

            First, the FREEDOM to have sex with whomever one chooses is none of your business and nor is it mine. Nor is it the government’s business.

            Secondly, you seem to think that a woman is the seducer. That is a common theme for men who feel that men are supposed to be superior to women. That was, of course, a biblical thing and it is one of the many serious problems the Bible has taught. It is false.

            Many men are traumatised for years to come because their offspring was murdered in the womb against his wishes.

            Hmmm, as though the women don’t feel bad about having an abortion. It is a major decision for a woman and many women are traumatized by evangelicals telling them that it would be–or was–a great sin and hell fire is awaiting them.

            Every woman is different just as every man. We have, in this country, the freedom of choice. No one actually wants an abortion, but I am not one to tell women that if they decide to have one, it is wrong. If, however, a woman has entered the third trimester, I would council her that it would be much better if she gave birth and put the child up for adoption. But I would not be in favor of any law that requires a woman to give birth.

            I suppose that the main problem here is that you have a religious belief that a human life begins at conception. I do not. Science does not. The government must not according to the Constitution because it is a religious belief.

            Simply put, an aborted fetus is NOT a baby or person. Therefore, it is not murder.

          • TruthvLIes

            More pro-abort denial.

            Simply put, science says as does anyone with a brain in their head that life begins at conception. if it doesn’t there are many doctors lying through their teeth.

            In fact, life has always begun at conception until abortion was legalised and then the pro-aborts came out of the woodwork and made up all sorts of fallacious arguments to justify the killing of babies.

            “Paints in a bunch..” Please explain.

            I would suggest that what you call the freedom to kill a baby is in fact total bondage. Even animals do kill their babies in the womb so we are less than animals.

            Micromanaging the lives of others. What a ridiculous claim.

            I never said the so called freedom to have sex was my business. All I did was state a fact which you are in denial about but then that is typical pro-abort rhetoric.

            The evidence that women are traumatized by having an abortion has nothing at all to do with evangelicals which you would know if you had read Anne Lastman’s book where she records her interviews with 150 women who have had an abortion. But then pro-aborts are good at blaming everyone except those who are involved.

            If you are so adamantly pro-abort why would you tell a woman who is in the third trimester not to abort?

            It is not a religious belief that human life begins at conception. It is a scientific belief that can not be refuted.

            Simply put, EVERY ABORTION KILLS A BABY so it is murder.

  • Sandra Exner

    So sad. He compromises the word of God. The Bible says God is the same today, tomorrow and always. P

  • Ronnie Crawford

    He is a bit like Tetzel who sold indulgences to make money out of unscriptural views. These megachurches are number crunchers. What is the most profitable doctrine? What can I say that will give us greater margins and market share. Wolves they are in sheep’s clothing.

  • Chet

    Ladies, all you need do is wipe off the dust and crack open your own Holy Bible and note Exodus 20:13, of the Ten Commandments… Cut and dried, so elementary a child can understand it.

    • Anna Doe

      Stop being that elementary, then!

      • Chet

        How’s their comprehension level? How hard is it to receive “Thou shalt not kill” Exodus 20:13, Holy Bible? Doesn’t matter what I think or you think or what anybody else thinks, God Almighty has declared such in His Word and He is the final authority. “And as it is appointed unto men once to die; but after this the judgment” Hebrews 9:27…

  • Daanan Mahn

    What does this man and Jesus favorite earthly friend, John the Baptist, have in common? Nothing…

  • T. R. Post

    I visited Hillsong NYC a couple times in 2010 when they were getting started. Someone who wasn’t connected with them prophesied God was calling me to be a part of that church but it didn’t bear witness with my spirit. I appreciate Carl Lentz’ desire to reach out to the unchurched. Nevertheless, I prefer to see all pastors with a national platform to boldly speak the truth in love and not be afraid to proclaim the whole counsel of God.

  • Ramon Galarza

    “Imagine”……………………………….

  • Jinneseekvirjulle

    He is saying nothing wrong – in fact repeating a lot of truths from the word, BUT omitting one very important factor – REPENTANCE (which make confess your sin, and make a U-turn in the other direction). God’s word is all to clear on what is an abomination in His eyes – whether it be stealing, murdering, fornicating, adultery, have same sex – sex i.e.The sexual sins you are committing against your own body and against God’s best for you.

    But a lot of the mega church preachers and found amazing ways to TAP DANCE around these issues because they are too scared to offend people. Well – I’d rather offend people than God, truth be told. His judgement is not something I want to face!

    I will be, even as a daughter of God, still be held accountable for every action and every word, but I twisting the word of God, I pray is not one of them.

    Thank you Jesus, I am justified (just-if-I’d_never sinned) through your blood, death and resurrection.

    “Preach the Word”
    2 Timothy 4 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: 2 preach the word [as an official messenger]; be ready when the time is right and even when it is not [keep your sense of urgency, whether the opportunity seems favorable or unfavorable, whether convenient or inconvenient, whether welcome or unwelcome]; correct [those who err in doctrine or behavior], warn [those who sin], exhort and encourage [those who are growing toward spiritual maturity], with inexhaustible patience and [faithful] teaching. 3 For the time will come when people will not tolerate sound doctrine and accurate instruction [that challenges them with God’s truth]; but wanting to have their ears tickled [with something pleasing], they will accumulate for themselves [many] teachers [one after another, chosen] to satisfy their own lusts and to support the errors they hold, 4 and will turn their ears away from the truth and will wander off into myths and man-made fictions [and will accept the unacceptable]. 5 But as for you, be clear-headed in every situation [stay calm and cool and steady], endure every hardship [without flinching], do the work of an evangelist, fulfill [the duties of] your ministry.

    1 Timothy 1: 8-10
    8 Now we know [without any doubt] that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully and appropriately, 9 understanding the fact that law is not enacted for the righteous person [the one in right standing with God], but for lawless and rebellious people, for the ungodly and sinful, for the irreverent and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for sexually immoral persons, for homosexuals, for [a]kidnappers and slave traders, for liars, for perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.

  • Bishop James

    “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you.” (Jeremiah 1:5) “Thou shalt not kill.” (Exodus 20: 13) Not really difficult to understand.

  • Kelly Clemensen

    He is defiantly a false teacher!!! No doubt about that!!!

  • mr goody two shoes

    Yes God is the judge and he has already judged murder as wrong. By his commandments we know what is right or wrong.

  • Rich

    Why are the new age pastors of today so afraid to call sin, sin? Jeepers folks, ripping a live person out of a woman’s womb piece by piece? Turning a 9 month old baby so their feet stick put but not their head and slitting their throats? Stabbing sharp sissors into the brain of a newborn baby who survived the abortion attempt?
    What is the church called to do if not defend the lives of the helpless, not say stupid things like “I’d like to find out their story first”.
    Yes mr Lentz, God will judge, however he has place His church on the earth to be salt and light and to stand against the evils of this world.
    Give me straight preaching that calls sin, sin!!

  • Nathanial

    I was able to read all 170 of the comments currently posted and thank those who provided biblical viewpoints of this hotly debated topic. I would also like to thank Hobbes for his salient commentary, which I thought was very effective in portraying a logical secular viewpoint – albeit one that operates outside the objective morality governing Christian beliefs.

    In reading the back-and-forth discussions, I’m reminded that we are tasked as Christians to bring about God’s will through intercessory prayer whereas the task of conversion/conviction is left to the Holy Spirit. Inasmuch as we can aid the revelation of God’s truth to those who identify as believers, I support the notion of debating God’s decrees as “iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another” (Proverbs 27:17). However, trying to convince someone who has not been drawn by the Holy Spirit of spiritual truths is dangerously reminiscent of Matthew 7:6.

    I propose that a far better use of our time would be to focus on those who seek truth, but have been fed a false gospel by pastors/preachers/priests lacking in discernment. I note a few people in this very thread who espouse Christian values, but seemingly reject the notion that Christianity should be offensive or exclusive in a fallen world. If those people could get more information from Christians on the verses/passages that govern our beliefs, I’m hopeful that the Holy Spirit will guide them to a greater discernment.

    In reading the article, I see a pastor who has lost his way – or perhaps never knew The Way (pun intended). In the best-case scenario, Lentz is obscuring biblical truth by not addressing our sin nature on a public stage in an effort to win lukewarm believers. In the worst-case scenario, he is contradicting biblical truth simply to win mass appeal. My first piece of advice would be to contemplate on James 4:4 and a more pointed dispute concerning abortion would be to analyze the scripture verses that were effectively outlined on The Federalist article discussing Lentz’ appearance on The View – namely Job 3:16, Matthew 1:18, Luke 2:5, Genesis 25:22, Luke 1:36,57, and Jeremiah 19:4-5.

  • Leona Isamo

    He’s preaching what people what to hear, not what God want them to know. Another pastor misleading people fro Jesus!!

  • felshamboy

    He conveniently forgot “no one comes to the father except through me.”

  • AZtejas

    I have to assume this preacher has his own bible, or as our Catholic friends call it, their traditions. Traditions seem to override the Word of God (Bible) in most apostate religions.