Church of England Urges ‘Unconditional Affirmation of Trans People … Within the Church’

LONDON — The House of Bishops for the Church of England is urging its churches to affirm those who have gender dysphoria and says that “everyone’s Christian journey—like the journey to find one’s true identity—is unique.” The development has raised concern among evangelical groups, which state that the notion is an affront to the Creator and the gospel.

William Nye, the secretary for the House of Bishops, released a document this past week that provides an update on talks among Anglican leaders regarding the welcoming of “transgenders” into the assembly.

As previously reported, last July, the General Synod voted to approve a motion that “recognizing the need for transgender people to be welcomed and affirmed in their parish church, call[ed] on the House of Bishops to consider whether some nationally commended liturgical materials might be prepared to mark a person’s gender transition.”

Chris Newlands from Blackburn, Lancashire proposed the motion, stating, “I hope that we can make a powerful statement to say that we believe that trans people are cherished and loved by God, who created them, and is present through all the twists and turns of their lives.”

In 2015, Newlands told reporters that he concocted the idea after being approached by a girl who identifies as a boy, who wished to be baptized again under her male name.

“I said, ‘Once you’ve been baptized, you’re baptized,’” Newlands recalled to the Guardian at that time. “[But] he said, ‘But I was baptized as a girl, under a different name.’”

“I said, ‘Let me have a think about it.’ So we did, and then we created a service, which was an affirmation of baptismal vows where we could introduce him to God with his new name and his new identity,” he said.

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In this month’s guidance, the House of Bishops noted that a number of synod members agreed with Newlands, and pointed to the words of member Lucy Gorman, who asserted that the matter is ultimately about “having a church that is eager to make sure you feel safe and accepted.”

“The House of Bishops welcomes and encourages the unconditional affirmation of trans people, equally with all people, within the Church, the body of Christ, and rejoices in the diversity of that one body, into which all Christians have been baptized by one Spirit,” Nye wrote in all bold to emphasize the statement.

He also noted, in light of discussions as to whether a person’s “new identity” should be marked or recognized in any way in worship, that it had been decided by the House that individual ministers can use the existing Affirmation of Baptismal Faith, which it called “an ideal liturgical rite which trans people can use to mark this moment of personal renewal.”

“The Affirmation … gives priority to the original and authentic baptism of the individual, and the sacramental change it has effected, allowing someone who has undergone a serious and lasting change to re-dedicate their life and identity to Christ,” Nye stated.

“In inviting ministers to use this rite, the House wishes to point out that everyone’s Christian journey—like the journey to find one’s true identity—is unique and encourages ministers to treat these possible pastoral encounters accordingly,” he also asserted. “This approach, familiar to all who care for people during other major life events, takes into account each person’s unique experiences.”

Read the document in full here.

However, the release of the update from the synod drew concern from evangelical groups in the UK, including the organization Christian Concern, which opined that Nye’s words were an affront to the gospel.

“This is collusion with the blasphemous notion that someone can be ‘born in the wrong body.’ It is blasphemous because it claims that God gave a person ‘the wrong body,’ when the bodies of people suffering with gender dysphoria are usually perfectly healthy. Rather, it is their minds and souls that are the site of suffering and confusion,” it said in a statement.

“It is also collusion with hatred and resentment of the male or female body, something that goes directly against what God said when He created everything, namely that it was ‘very good’ (Genesis 1: 31),” the group also noted. “It is therefore an attack on the triune God as Creator of all things. The Christian faith makes no sense at all without the history of creation and fall.”

“Gender transition is actually a moment of personal rebellion against the way the person has been made by God. It is therefore a moment of personal rebellion against God. This should not be celebrated or marked by the church at all, let alone described as a ‘moment of personal renewal,'” it lamented.

Gavin Ashenden also wrote for Anglican Ink in July that the Church of England has presented a false Jesus to the world in matters of both homosexuality and transgenderism—which is especially dangerous and damning to those who are perishing.

“Where the real Jesus saves us from our sins and offers us renewal in the image and furthers the likeness of God, the fake Jesus offers to make us comfortable in our skins, cozy with our sexual appetites and untroubled by having the central areas of who we are off limits to the interference of God,” he outlined.

“This comes under the historic categories of both blasphemy and heresy,” Ashendon continued. “It interferes with peoples’ salvation. It replaces faith in the Living Christ with pseudo-therapy. It is an abandonment of the heart of the gospel; and this is done by people who when they use the words ‘Jesus, holy, love and acceptance,’ have twisted the words to mean very different things from what the Church has always intended.”

God’s law reads in Deuteronomy 22:5, “The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment, for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God.”


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  • Amos Moses – He>i

    ACCEPTANCE WITHOUT EXCEPTION …… they will tolerate nothing less than ……..

  • BravesFan

    Here’s a novel concept. How about the unconditional affirmation of God’s Holy Word?

    • Lydia Church

      Amen!
      Exactly!
      Far be it from these apostates though…the darkness of sin grows thicker and deeper by the minute!

  • MVP

    Even back in the 1940s, C. S. Lewis recognized that the C of E clergy tend to be less Christian than the laity. All their nonsense starts in their seminaries.

  • Reason2012

    Adults continue to permanently turn away from homosexuality/ transgenderism, even after decades of believing the lie they were “born that way”, proving it’s not genetic, but the product of indoctrination, confusion, mental instability and/or abuse.

    Homosexual and transgender behavior is most literally pointed out as a sin, and God has not changed on that regard. But if a person has those inclinations but does not act upon them, does not dwell in lust upon others, but is instead struggling against them to avoid them, then it’s not a sin. It’s just like sinful inclinations of any kind: it’s acting upon it when it becomes a sin.

    And this is what God says about sin and specifically the behavior of homosexuality:

    Romans 1:26-27 ”For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: (27) And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their_lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ”Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [men who willingly take on the part of a “woman” with another man], nor abusers of themselves with mankind [s odomites], (10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”

    1 Timothy 1:9-10 ”Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, (10) For_whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind [s odomites], for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”

    Jude 1:7 ”Even as_Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”

    Luke 17:29 ”[Jesus said] But the same day that Lot went out of_Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.”

    Matthew 19:4-6 ”And he [Jesus] answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, (5) And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? (6) Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.”

    Jesus made it quite clear God made us male and female so that a man will leave his father and mother (not two fathers, not three mothers and so on) and cleave onto his wife (not his husband and so on).

    The Word of God rebukes us all – even if we all try to say we don’t believe the Bible, the very Word of God will be our judge when we face Him. And God is a righteous judge and will judge us all – not turn a blind eye to our sin. Do not be deceived by the world: it’s God we will have to convince that His word was a lie, not men. What happened in Noah’s day when the entire world rejected God? Did God spare them because there were so many? No – they all perished except for Noah and his family!

    Proverbs 9:10 ”The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.”

    God spared not His chosen people – we are kidding ourselves if we think He will spare the United States of America if we choose to blatantly turn away from Him.

    Jeremiah 12:17 ”But if they will not obey, I will utterly pluck up and destroy that nation, saith the LORD.”

    Luke 17:28-30 “So also as it was in the days of Lot: they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; (29) but the day Lot went out of Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from the heaven and destroyed them all. (30) Even so it shall be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.”

    Romans 1:18-32 “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [suppress] the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

    For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

    Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

    For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

    And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, m urder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”

    The entire Bible points out men having_sex with men is an abomination. Likewise woman having_sex with women. It’s not just Paul that pointed it out.

    Genesis 19:4-13 “But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of S odom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them [men wanting to have_sex with men].

    And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing [he offers his daughters to be_raped to keep them from having_sex with another man – shows_rape is not the issue but male on male_sex]; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

    And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.

    And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place: For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.”

    These two messengers were sent to destroy that place before the event where they tried to_rape these messengers.

    Leviticus 18:22 “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”

    Leviticus 20:13 “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination …”

    Even cross-dressing is an abomination:

    Deuteronomy 22:5 “The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.”

    Deuteronomy 23:17 “There shall be no_whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a s odomite of the sons of Israel.”

    1 Kings 22:46 “And the remnant of the s odomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.”

    1 Kings 15:11-12 “And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, as did David his father. And he took away the s odomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.”

    2 Kings 23:7 “And he brake down the houses of the s odomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.”

    Ezekiel 16:49-50 “Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister S odom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.”

    And the “pride” parades about homosexuality are more of the same.

    Even Jesus points out marriage is a man and a woman.

    Matthew 19:4-5 “And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?”

    Not father and father. Not mother and mother. Not his husband.

    And only two people of opposite gender can become “one flesh”.

    Live forever, people – not temporarily only to be cast out for living for the things of this world.

    May God/Jesus Christ be glorified!

    • Enniscorthy

      “Adults continue to permanently turn away from homosexuality/
      transgenderism, even after decades of believing the lie they were “born
      that way”, proving it’s not genetic, but the product of indoctrination,
      confusion, mental instability and/or abuse.”

      No, they really don’t, because it’s not possible to turn from the sexuality you were born with, and when Exodus International, the biggest “ex-gay” organization of them all shut their doors and admitted fraud, it confirmed what psychologists have always known. Your sexuality is simply the hand you are dealt; you can convince people to live sexless lives, but that’s hardly “turning away” from homosexuality.

      Transgenderism likewise is real, and embodies a psychological component which its detractors prefer to ignore.

      • Amos Moses – He>i

        Right ….. because God and Christ are powerless against our sexuality …… ummmmm …….. NOPE ……..

        • Samwise

          Is god powerful against left handedness? Regardless of God’s power, left handed people remain left handed. God does not change brain wiring.

          Back in the days when schoolchildren were beaten for using their left hands, I’m sure thousands upon thousands prayed to become right handed. But they didn’t.

          No matter how much a person prays, the brain wiring that drives sexual orientation does not change. This was clearly demonstrated by Exodus International.

          The only question is how much hate and discrimination “loving” christians will target at people for being exactly how they were born.

          People used to mistreat handicapped people because birth defects were seen as punishment from god. Now we know that isn’t true and this belief is in fact a grievous insult against god.

          It is time to honor god by accepting people as they are, including the brain wiring that causes a person to be gay or trans.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “God does not change brain wiring.”

            “the RENEWING OF YOUR MIND…….”……. He most CERTAINLY does …….. NOTHING is beyond His power and sovereignty …….. left-handed people lose hands and become right-handed ……

            Romans
            12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
            12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

          • Samwise

            Amos said “…left-handed people lose hands and become right-handed”

            This is blatantly untrue.

            Do not speak of matters you know nothing about.

            My mom is right handed. She lost control of the right side of her body due to a major stroke 5 years ago. She cannot move her right arm at all. Using her left hand is a continuing, daily struggle, because she is still right handed. It would have been wonderful if the dexterity she had in her right hand jumped to the left, but it did not.

            I make no statement of what god is capable of. But just as the evidence shows that god does not cause amputated limbs to regrow, the evidence shows he does not cause brain wiring to change.

            Maybe the brains that god would renew are those that choose to hate.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            sure … and by GODS GRACE she is able to do it ….. sure it is difficult …… NO ONE said that Gods sovereign decree is easy for us ….. it frequently is not …… but that does not alter the fact ….. He is sovereign ……….. and HIS goal is for us to GROW in HOLINESS ….. and things do not grow WITHOUT STRUGGLE ……. it is not Gods job to make your life easier ….. it is for us to grow into the fullness He has planned ……. not OUR plan …. HIS plan ….

          • Samwise

            LOL. Make up your mind.

            First the off hand becomes the dominant hand if use of the dominant hand is lost. “left-handed people lose hands and become right-handed ……”

            Then use of the offhand remains a struggle. “it is not Gods job to make your life easier …..”

            Convenient. Doublespeak.

            Read that bit about removing the plank from your eye before worrying about the splinter in someone else’s. Then re-read the stuff about the renewing of the mind. And maybe the part about lying.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            God built the mind to be able to rewire itself ….. and the science shows this to be so …….. there is nothing opposition to what i said ….. but all the scripture you tried to quote is out of context and meaningless ………… there is no “double speak” ….. there is your confusion …….

          • Sujay Kentlyn

            Thank you for being the voice of reason and compassion. People like you have made it possible for me to return to church and experience the love and grace of Christ in entirely new ways.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            God is not Gumby that you get to mold and shape to your liking …… He is not Burger King where you get to have it your way ……. you either conform to God and His plan …… or He has another part of His plan for you ……

        • Michael C

          Right ….. because God and Christ are powerless against our sexuality …… ummmmm …….. NOPE ……..

          God may be able to turn gay people straight.

          …there’s just no evidence that He’s actually chosen to do so. There may people who claim to be “healed” of homosexuality but their definitions of the words healed and homosexuality are often different than we generally know them. Also, none of them have ever supplied any actual evidence of their claims, we’re supposed to rely entirely on their word.

          On the flip side, the majority of the pioneers of the “ex-gay” marketplace have recanted their original claims of change being possible.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            NOPE …. all kinds of evidence …… just not any that you want to accept …….

        • Enniscorthy

          Try asking God to change your eye color, it’s the same idea. Report back when you see progress.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            NO …. it is not …… big FAIL on your part …… DNA determines eye color AND sex …… NOT sexuality …. and certainly NOT who you decide to stick what in who’s where ……… just more lies …. more futile thinking ….. or really NOT thinking about what you are saying …… at all ………

          • I love you Amos. You SO never back down.

          • Enniscorthy

            Hm, yes. Even when he’s so utterly and completely wrong and confronted with fifteen kinds of proof.

          • When the man stands on the Word of God, no other proof matters. Your opinion of him & Christian beliefs doesn’t make him wrong, it just makes you an unbeliever. You keep pushing him to believe things we know doesn’t lie within the Word & because He still trusts in what he trusts in – Lord & Savior – it makes him wrong? Liberal logic: Fight for freedom of speech unless it’s against what liberals believe. Then, HOW DARE YOU???

          • Enniscorthy

            No Tammy, that’s not what’s going on. I’m dealing with a person who has the idea that the liberal left is trying to legalize pedophilia, someone who steadfastly refuses to accept proof when it’s presented to him, and someone who just says NOPE as a knee-jerk reaction to everything. It’s got nothing to do with his Christianity, although the brand he has chosen to embrace gets called into question occasionally because of some of its odd beliefs. But it’s cute that you’ve turned this into a “liberal” issue.

          • Enniscorthy

            You cannot change your sexuality, it’s fixed. There is settled science on this matter, why do you continue to resist it?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            thats is garbage … you are not a hostage of your “sexuality” ….. complete and utter nonsense ………. futile thinking …… horse hockey …… bull roar ………..

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            FYI …. it is false science ….. it is lies ….. it is not science …… there is not even one double blind study of looking at the DNA ONLY and determining a persons sexual proclivities …….. MALARKEY …………..

          • Enniscorthy

            Not false science, accepted science.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            sure ….. accepted but still FALSE ….. which does not alter its state as FALSE no matter who “accepts” it ….. still a lie …………..

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you cannot change your SEX ….. it is fixed …… FYI ….. the VERY DEFINITION of science is THAT IT IS NEVER “settled” …….. ummmmmm ….. DUH!!!!!!!!! ……………

            There …. FIXED THAT for you …. beyond that is just LIES ……….

          • Enniscorthy

            Changing your sex? Yes, that can be accomplished through surgery.
            Changing your attraction? Good luck.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            NOPE ….. surgery does not affect your DNA which determines WHAT YOU ARE ….. and so to hold a view that it can be is ANTI-science and FALSE science …..

          • Enniscorthy

            What does the surgery do then, and why do people elect to have it? I can’t believe I’m having this conversation.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            i cant believe you think DNA does not control a persons sex ….. and that FEELINGS somehow over-ride that and are unchangable (like people do not get divorced just because their FEELINGS change) ….. and that surgery can alter DNA ….. or that if what you say is true then HOW CAN PEDOPHILIA be wrong if they have no control over it and it cannot change ……

            Your premise utterly lacks logic, reason and SCIENCE ………

          • Enniscorthy

            Well, you basically just said that every person who marries does so out of feelings, so if I’m expecting you to suddenly develop human empathy, I think I will have a very long wait.

            Pedophilia is wrong because it’s an act of abuse on a non-consenting child. We don’t consider what the person who is attracted to a minor is experiencing because nobody is going to condone child abuse. Ever.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            today …. YUP ….. MOST DO ……. has not one thing to do with “empathy” …….. has to do with the TRUTH ……….. “Pedophilia is wrong because it’s an act of abuse ” ….. but ….. THEY WERE BORN THAT WAY …… illogical ….. inconsistant ….. antiSCIENCE ….. anti-YOUR OWN STATED POSITION ……….

          • Enniscorthy

            It doesn’t matter if they were born that way. Maybe they were. But we don’t care, because the other party is innocent and cannot consent. Did you not learn this in whatever church you go to? It’s pretty basic.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            SURE IT DOES ….. because YOU SAID SO ….. if they are trannies ….. then they were BORN THAT WAY according to you …… and if they are homosexual or lesbians ….. THEY WERE BORN THAT WAY according to you ….. and they CANNOT CHANGE according to you …… so the same STANDARD YOU APPLY ….. applies to PEDOPHILES ……….. and it is only YOUR OPINION it is abuse …… its pretty basic ………

          • Enniscorthy

            It saddens me greatly that you are advocating for the systemic sexual abuse of children. I thought you were a Christian. I will always fight to protect a child from a sexual abuser. A child’s rights far outweigh another person’s desire for sexual abuse.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            No, no, no, no, no …….. YOU have set a STANDARD that LOGICALLY includes PEDOPHILES …… YOUR STANDARD …… and i am trying to get you to see YOUR ERROR ………

          • Enniscorthy

            Well, I am sitting here saying that under no circumstance would I allow an adult to sexually abuse a child, and you’re screaming at me that yes I would. Clearly you don’t know what my standard is when you keep telling me the very opposite of what I’m stating. I don’t know why you elect to ignore that a child is not party to what the adult does to him or her and that it’s somehow okay just because we don’t want to be politically correct. In fact, NO ONE feels that way, so you’re not just misrepresenting me but practically everyone else out there. No one cares what a pedophile’s attractions are. A child must be protected. And no one argues that because it’s pretty clear and obvious.

            This is why we don’t compare homosexuality to pedophilia. If two grown adults are attracted, there’s no reason to tell them what they are doing is wrong. Not a single one. But pedophilia is an act of abuse on a child who cannot consent. I’m surprised you have to have this explained to you.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            well then YOU ARE A LIAR ….. and your position lacks SCIENCE, LOGIC, and REASON ….. and you have NOTHING to base your assertions on ….. WHATSOEVER …… except BIGOTRY ……….

          • Enniscorthy

            Calling names is against the rules of this channel. I’ve given you all the reason you could possibly ask for, and you just throw it all away to name-call.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            not calling you a name ……….. TELLING YOU WHAT YOU ARE …… as your entire position IS A LIE ….. and you are SPREADING THOSE LIES …… THAT makes you a liar ………..

          • Enniscorthy

            It’s not a lie, and you are ignoring all the reason I am presenting you with.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope ….. your position is a lie as your position is entirely inconsistent …… and you cannot justify your position as it is a self-CONTRADICTORY position ….. and THAT makes it a lie ……… and you a LIAR …………..

          • Enniscorthy

            Name calling is against the rules of this channel. Please learn to abide by rules.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            please stop lying on a CHRISTIAN forum and you wont be called a liar …………

          • Enniscorthy

            Please learn to accept when you are wrong, and it might stop you from your knee-jerk habit of calling people “liars” who care enough to tell you the truth.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope … please learn to accept that we do not tolerate lying here ………..

          • Enniscorthy

            Sounds to me like you don’t tolerate much of ANYTHING that shows you the error of your ways.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “Clearly you don’t know what my standard is when you keep telling me the very opposite of what I’m stating.”

            CLEARLY YOU do not understand YOUR OWN POSITION and just how ILLOGICAL it is …………..

            ” I don’t know why you elect to ignore that a child is not party to what the adult does to him”

            hmmmmm ….. ummmmm ….. Alfred Charles Kinsey …. a SCIENTIST …. who studied human SEXUALITY …. you know ….. FEELINGS as “science” ……. and he said it was not abuse and it was okey dokey ….. and it caused no harm ………..

          • Enniscorthy

            “CLEARLY YOU do not understand YOUR OWN POSITION and just how ILLOGICAL it is …………..”

            What is the matter with you? Of course I understand my own position, and I have articulated it here consistently and without a single contradiction.

            Kinsey never said pedophilia wasn’t abuse, you’re just being silly now. You seem to not know the difference between when Kinsey talks about attractions and when he talks about actual sexual abuse.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            no you have not thought through what the implications of what you are saying …… and i am pointing them out …… and you are unable to refute it ………..

          • Enniscorthy

            I have refuted it. Several times. My argument is that homosexuals are not pedophiles. One breaks the law and hurts a non-consenting party and the other doesn’t. But you keep ignoring that and telling me that my argument is about “born that way”, which is something I have never said in my life.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            noipe … denying is not refuting …. you are confused ………..

          • Enniscorthy

            I denied AND refuted, and gave a pretty lengthy explanation too. You are gonna have to let this one go, you lose.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            the loser is the one who believes your lie ……….

          • Enniscorthy

            There hasn’t been a lie, only what you are choosing to call a lie because you cannot properly articulate an effective argument.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            BTW …. your lies are being exposed ….. so i think not …..

          • Enniscorthy

            You have exposed nothing, you keep insisting my “STANDARD” is something I never said it was. You’re just burying your head in the sand.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you are just a BIGOT then ….. you are against them because YOU say it is wrong …… ON WHAT BASIS ……. THEY WERE BORN THAT WAY ……. /sarc off …………

          • Enniscorthy

            Calling names is against the rules here.
            But no, protecting children from sexual abuse is not bigotry. It’s simply what you do if you’re a decent human being.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            surgery offers them hope ….. FALSE hope ……….

          • Enniscorthy

            How do you know it’s false, when you aren’t them, and aren’t experiencing a crisis of gender?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            because it does not alter their suicide rate even one iota except to increase it ……… they still are most likely to off themselves ….. 40% or GREATER ……….

          • Enniscorthy

            Well, THAT came out of left field. What does the suicide rate hate to do with you being able to read their minds?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            do not have to “read minds” ……. all you have to do is READ THE STUDIES …… surgery DOES NOT FIX IT ……. so simple ….. so SCIENCE ………

          • Enniscorthy

            Surgery changes gender. That’s why they call it gender reassignment surgery, see?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            NOPE a pinadictomy does not make you a man …… it makes you a woman with a bad life CHOICE ………….

          • Enniscorthy

            Science and the law disagree with you, so it doesn’t matter.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope ….. the “science” and “law” is not correct and a lie also ………………… it is false science and a lie …… and just because a thing is “legal” does not make it correct ………… or any less of a lie when it is based on a lie …………

          • Enniscorthy

            And that’s why you would end up in jail and I wouldn’t. I know the law isn’t a lie, and you can’t seem to figure it out.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope …. you assert it is not a lie ….. there are all kinds of laws based on lies ….. and so the law is a lie ……….

          • Enniscorthy

            Then, as I told you before, your argument is not with me.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you are the one spreading the lies here ……..

          • Enniscorthy

            I’d love to hear even a single lie I’ve made.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “If you’re going to tell me yet again about how my standard includes “born that
            way”, then you’re wrong, and I’ve already told you that, because that isn’t my
            standard and it’s not my argument.,”

            Enniscorthy Reason2012 • 5 days ago
            “Adults continue to permanently turn away from homosexuality/
            transgenderism, even after decades of believing the lie they were “born
            that way”, proving it’s not genetic, but the product of indoctrination,
            confusion, mental instability and/or abuse.”

            No, they really don’t, because it’s not possible to turn from the sexuality you
            were born with,”
            ————————————————————-
            YOUR LIES EXPOSED …………. you said …. THEY ARE BORN THAT WAY …. BORN
            WITH IT ……..

          • Enniscorthy

            They are born with it. Or it forms in early life. The point is you can’t change it. But that wasn’t the argument I used with you. The argument I used with you is that a child cannot consent therefore pedophilia is an act of abuse against a child.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            so the interesting thing about that lie is ….. it CONDEMNS them to a life absent change ….. and we say IT IS CHANGEABLE ….. and you say we are wrong to tell them they CAN CHANGE …… and you DO NOT ALLOW FOR THEIR CHANGE …… and that condemns them to a hell in this life ….. and the next ………. and you are STILL A LIAR ……..

          • Enniscorthy

            Still, not one single solitary lie. Unless you mean your own lies. Because you cannot alter your sexuality, it’s not possible and has never been proven. I’ve got a lot of science on my side, what have you got? A pastor?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            your STATEMENTS are SELF-CONTRADICTORY and therefore LIES ……….. and you are a LIAR ……….. your documented statements are DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED to each other …….

            “If you’re going to tell me yet again about how my standard includes “born that way”, then you’re wrong”

            “BECAUSE IT’S NOT POSSIBLE TO TURN FROM THE SEXUALITY YOU WERE BORN WITH,” “YOUR SEXUALITY IS SIMPLY THE HAND YOU ARE DEALT;”

            “They are born with it. Or it forms in early life. The point is you can’t change it.”

            SELF-CONTRADICTORY …… LIES ………….. keep writing ….. because the best ammunition against you is the ammunition your own statements supply …… please …. keep writing ……..

          • Enniscorthy

            Blah, blah, blah. All the same garbage. I stand by all the statements, even if you try to conveniently choose them when it suits you.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            sure you do … and they are self-contradictory …… blah, blah, blah …………

          • Enniscorthy

            They aren’t, and I stand by every one of them.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            self-contradictory statements are lies ….. and you are a liar …….. i do not care if you stand by your lies …… not going to debate your lies with you ….

          • Enniscorthy

            There is nothing self-contradictory about stating that our sexuality is fixed and unchanging, and that consenting adults are not guilty of abuse. I would sure like to hear why you think so, but you’re in parrot mode right now, repeating every nonsensical thing you say over and over.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            there is when you say it is …… and then say that is not what you said ….. and that it is some other thing ….. and that is self-contradiction and a lie …… and EVEN IF IT IS NOT ……. to tell a person that they are incapable of change … whether they desire that change or not in their sexuality or any other part of their life ….. IS A LIE ……. and you are STILL A LIAR ……….. and saying that they are incapable of change whether they desire that change or not in their sexuality or any other part of their life is a HATEFUL thing to say to anybody …… and BIGOTED …………..

          • Enniscorthy

            I said those things, but at specific times. You are claiming I used one of them as my argument, and that’s where YOU are lying.When you tell me that people choose to be homosexual, I will tell you that our sexuality is fixed and innate and occurs throughout the animal kingdom; we do not choose it.
            When you then try to be dishonest and use that argument to tell me homosexuals and pedophiles are the same because of “born that way” and “innate”, then I will tell you that there is a difference between informed consent between adults and an act of sexual abuse against a child.

            You have two different tacks here, and each requires a different response. But what you are now doing is saying that I actually support pedophilia because it’s innate. You’re choosing the wrong argument for your ridiculous attack. And you have to know you’re seriously off base when you have the worst censor on the entire internet mindlessly thumbing you up with each comment you make.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            they are self contradictory arguments for the same thing ….. your words …. and ALL your words are open to be used against you ….. and you are a liar …

          • Enniscorthy

            They aren’t contradictory. Homosexuality is innate and unchangeable. Homosexuality is not comparable to pedophilia because one is a consensual act and the other is an act of abuse. What’s contradictory? I would LOVE to know. Maybe Checkmate can take a break from her censorship spree and answer for you.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “Homosexuality is innate and unchangeable. Homosexuality is not comparable to pedophilia because one is a consensual act and the other is an act of abuse.”

            ONLY IN YOUR OPINION ……

            saying that they are incapable of change whether they desire that change or not in their sexuality or any other part of their life is a HATEFUL thing to say to anybody …… and BIGOTED ………….. “YUP, do not even bother to try to change that part of your life, just give up on that nonsense, as you are not worthy of change in your thinking or your desires ….. just GIVE UP” ……. yup ….. really loving thing you are telling them ……….”Homosexuality is innate and unchangeable.” ….. SO JUST GIVE UP ……….. my, how “loving” of you ……….

          • Enniscorthy

            No, it isn’t my opinion. Did you miss the bit where Exodus shut itself down and apologized for being fraudulent? Is that my opinion?

            Saying your sexuality doesn’t change is hateful? If I say you can’t change your skin color, is that hateful too? Facts are facts. Your indoctrination, however, is not.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            NOPE ….. it IS just your opinion ………… and i could not care one wit about “Exodus shut itself down and apologized for being fraudulent” ….. has nothing to do with the LIES you are spreading about homosexuals and their being unable to change ………. that is HATEFUL BIGOTRY …………

          • Enniscorthy

            Of course you don’t care, because that would mean that you know you’re wrong. Exodus was the biggest “ex-gay” organization of them all. You cannot change you sexuality once it’s there. And abstinence isn’t changing your sexuality.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            again … trying to propagate the lies that homosexuals are incapable of change …. HATEFUL BIGOTRY ………….

          • Enniscorthy

            I love the homosexuals because I say let them live the lives they want. You want to force them into an unnatural, painful and ultimately useless “therapy” that they don’t need because they aren’t sick. I don’t think I’ll be taking any morality lessons from you, Dr. Nope.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “I love the homosexuals” …. and yet your statements are lies about them ….. and they are hateful bigotry …… and your statements belie what you are saying ……… “Dr. Nope” ….LOLOLOLOL ………… YUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUPPPPPP ………………………

          • Enniscorthy

            My statements about homosexuals come straight from the American Psychological Association, would you say they “lie” about homosexuals too? Yes, you probably would.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “My statements about homosexuals come straight from the American Psychological Association”

            sure ….. much of what they say ARE LIES …… and false science ….. and it is false science as it is not reproducible to any certain degree ……………… so FALSE SCIENCE ………

            again …. FYI …… FEELINGS are not science ………….. and FYI ….. the wonderful people at the APA said PEDOPHILIA was “sexual orientation” and NOT a disorder ….. so i guess you agree with that also ….. as i said IF you are consistant …………..

            Not All Pedophiles Have Mental Disorder, American Psychiatric …
            Nov 1, 2013 … In a move toward destigmatizing pedophilia, the American
            Psychiatric Association (APA) in its updated Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), distinguishes between pedophiles who desire sex with children , and those who act on those desires. The former group — those who want to …

            APA to correct manual: Pedophilia is not a ‘sexual orientation …
            Oct 31, 2013 … Pedophilia is not a “sexual orientation,” and erroneous use of that
            phrase will be corrected soon in its new manual on mental illnesses, the American Psychiatric Association said Thursday.

            APA: Classifying pedophilia as a ‘sexual orientation’ was an ‘error …
            Nov 4, 2013 … Social conservatives said calling pedophilia an “orientation” was a
            step towards normalizing pedophiliac behavior.

          • Enniscorthy

            Am I supposed to respond to this gish gallop? How about stating your sources so we can analyze how factual they are?

            If you don’t like what the American Psychological Association says, there are many others in total agreement with them. Most, in fact.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            well they do not like links here ….. but if you cut and paste or just google “apa pedophile sexual orientation” all kinds of links will come up …… please do not take my word for it …. i CERTAINLY do not take yours …………. and just because the ENTIRE WORLD accepts a LIE …… that does not make that lie the truth …… or did you not know that ………..

          • Enniscorthy

            I did what you suggested and found the exact result I expected. A single crackpot response is just that, a lone crackpot response. Do you really think it’s me who is the anti-science one in this discussion? You could not possibly be more opposed to real science.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            really ….. when i googled “apa pedophile sexual orientation” i found “About 10,200 results (0.65 seconds) ” …. so it appears you have lied YET AGAIN ………..

          • Enniscorthy

            I got that result too. The problem is most of them completely refute everything you’ve said. Did you take the time to read any of them?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            NOPE ….. they said it, they PRINTED IT …… and then they TURNED LIKE A SCALDED DOG …… and you STILL think they have any authority …… but if you are going to QUOTE THEM …… then it seems YOU ARE IN AGREEMENT WITH THEM ……. especially on PEDOPHILIA ….. OR ….. you do not know WHO AND WHAT you are talking about …… and it appears to be the later ………..

          • Enniscorthy

            Sorry, Dr. Nope. Wrong again.
            Quote mining is tiresome, and you don’t even care enough to quote your sources. That says a lot about you.
            You know full well my feelings about pedophilia. Are you still going to try to tell me that I believe they should be let loose to attack innocent children?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            so …. then ….. YOU DO NOT KNOW WHO AND WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT ……. that is the only alternative ………….. because the APA said it and was ……

            APA to correct manual: Pedophilia is not a ‘sexual orientation’

            >>>>>>>washington times com<<<<<<<<<
            By Cheryl Wetzstein – The Washington Times – Thursday, October 31, 2013
            Pedophilia is not a “sexual orientation,” and erroneous use of that phrase will be corrected soon in its new manual on mental illnesses, the American Psychiatric Association said Thursday.

            The APA’s statement came in response to media inquiries, including from The Washington Times, about an uproar on the Internet that the APA had designated pedophilia as a sexual orientation in its new Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, known as DSM-5 or DSM-V.

          • Enniscorthy

            So what are you talking about now? Where in your paragraph does it say that the APA says abusing children is OK? Take your time. You KNOW they didn’t say that, and it’s not there.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            said pedophilia is a “sexual orientation” just as homosexual and whatever else perversion is defined as “sexual orientation” …. their equation …. not mine …. and YOU quote them as “authority” ……….. YOUR AUTHORITY ….. oh … and “SCIENCE” …..

          • Enniscorthy

            What’s the issue? Do you know what “sexual orientation” means? I have absolutely no idea if pedophilia is a sexual orientation. Whether it is or isn’t is irrelevant though, I still wouldn’t allow a pedophile to do as he or she likes to a child.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            But you cite them as “experts” …… so YOUR “EXPERTS” said it is not only true ….. even though they RETRACTED IT …… but they said it was “SCIENCE”enough to want to make it part of the DSM-V …….. and you STILL cite them as “EXPERTS” ……….. EVEN more SELF CONTRADICTION …………..

          • Enniscorthy

            They are experts. Are you trying to say they deliberately lied?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            NOPE … they DELIBERATELY said it was a “sexual orientation” and were making it part of the DSM-V …… and then they had to retract it …… and YOU say they are the “EXPERTS” ……. AGAIN ……. so they said PEDOPHILIA is a “sexual orientation” ……. not my source problem ….. YOURS …………..

          • Enniscorthy

            It’s a frightening world you live in where you’re surrounded by conspiracy theories. As I said before it doesn’t matter who considers it a sexual orientation. Maybe it is. But we don’t CARE if it’s a sexual orientation, because we aren’t going to allow children to be abused. I don’t know what is so difficult about that for you to understand. I’ll say it again and again and again, NO ONE is angling to get child abuse legalized.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            okay … so now we have the “conspiracy theory” EPITHET …… and all you have is NAME CALLING ……. and what are you BTW …… an ACCIDENTAL THEORIST ……….. you are a JOKE …… “But we don’t CARE if it’s a sexual orientation, because we aren’t going to allow children to be abused.” … so you ARE a BIGOT …… as you have no basis to deny them their rights ………. “I’ll say it again and again and again, NO ONE is angling to get child abuse legalized.” ……….. Hillary Clinton is …………

          • Enniscorthy

            Yes I have a basis to deny them their rights, they don’t have the right to sexually abuse children, what more reason do I need to deny them? Why do you continually stand up for pedophiles?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            again …. just your opinion …….. that it is “abuse” ……. as from your further writings ….. you have no objective morality ……. just your opinion …. and then to bolster your opinion …. you cite the APA who has already made statements moving us toward it being ok and and certain states saying it is okay for minors to consent to medical procedures without parental consent …. specifically abortion ….. BTW …… HOW DID THEY GET PREGNANT in order to even get to the point of an ABORTION ………….

          • Enniscorthy

            Not my opinion, it’s the law. Children cannot consent by law. You are fond of saying everything’s my opinion, but I’m just giving you facts, Dr. Nope. My objective morality is based on empathy and the golden rule. You, on the other hand, need a deity to tell you that murder and rape and abuse are wrong. I’ll stick with mine.
            The APA never said it was OK. They said (originally) that it may be an orientation. All that means is they didn’t choose it. It doesn’t mean people are going to wantonly allow it.
            Kids fool around and make mistakes, that’s how they got pregnant. Who are you going to blame THAT one on? Atheists?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            AGAIN ….. self-contradiction ……….

            Enniscorthy Amos Moses – He>i • 3 hours ago
            I did what you suggested and found the exact result I expected. A single crackpot response is just that, a lone crackpot response. Do you really think it’s me who is the anti-science one in this discussion? You could not possibly be more opposed to real science.

            Amos Moses – He>i Enniscorthy • 2 hours ago
            really ….. when i googled “apa pedophile sexual orientation” i found “About 10,200 results (0.65 seconds) ” …. so it appears you have lied YET AGAIN ………..

            Enniscorthy Amos Moses – He>i • an hour ago
            I got that result too. The problem is most of them completely refute everything you’ve said. Did you take the time to read any of them?

            so first one “crackpot” response …… then “oh yeah, i found all those other (10,200 responses) ones too” …….. self-contradiction …… lies …. trying to make yourself look smarter than everyone else ….. but mostly just smarter than me ……. and you continually FAIL ……. because your LIES catch up to you ………….

          • Enniscorthy

            I never said that the single crackpot response was the ONLY one, it was a general statement not even pertaining to you. Once again, there is no self-contradiction, only your failure to comprehend what’s being said to you.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            right …. to make yourself look smart and everyone else look ….. well you know what you were trying to portray everyone else as ……

          • Enniscorthy

            No, because as you are told constantly on this forum, you do not possess the ability to read people’s minds. It was intended as a general statement – a single crackpot response to ANYTHING is not indicative of the majority of level-headed responses. And yet you seem to zero in on the crackpot ones and lay them at my feet going “See? Q.E.D.”

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            and as i said ….. YOU KNOW WHAT YOU WERE TRYING TO DO …… and to make yourself look smarter than every one else …………… which you aint ………..

          • Enniscorthy

            You are wrong, I have told you what I did and why.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you are wrong and cant admit the truth ………… that your “experts” ……. AINT …………

          • Enniscorthy

            Of course, when you want to understand the science behind sexuality, don’t ask a bunch of scientists, what would they know? No, talk instead to a fundamentalist Christian pastor who believes everything is a sin.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            FYI …. a bunch of “scientists” and the APA …… saying PEDOPHILIA is a “sexual orientation” …… is not science ….. is not sexuality ….. it is a sin …… and you still cant admit the truth that in 2013 that is exactly what your so called “experts” in “science” ….. SAID ………. no “conspiracy theory” because FYI …… IT AINT A THEORY …… THEY DID IT ………….

          • Enniscorthy

            WHO CARES if it’s an orientation? Seriously, who cares? All that means is that your body is drawn to it and can’t resist. How does that mean anyone’s going to just let them abuse kids? You never seem to say whom you’re worried about giving the abuse of children the green light. NOBODY is going to do that, ever. Nobody would be inhuman enough to allow it.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            well HOMOSEXUALITY is a “sexual orientation” according to the DSM-5 …… LESBIANISM is a “sexual orientation” according to the DSM-5 …… TRANSWHATEVERISM is a “sexual orientation” according to the DSM-5 ….. ACCORDING TO YOUR “expert” SOURCES ….. THEY CARE ….. and in 2013 YOUR EXPERTS wanted to say PEDOPHILIA was a “sexual orientation” according to the DSM-5 …… So you tell us WHY would you cite them as “experts” when THEY say such things ………… and then WHY ON EARTH we should believe anything you say as truth ……………..

          • Enniscorthy

            Because they study it, unlike your fundamentalist pastors who condemn things without ever taking the time to even try to understand them.

            If homosexuality, lesbianism and transgenderism are sexual orientations, which they are, great. If pedophilia turns out to be, well how interesting, but you seem to think that means “well, guess it’s going to be open season on all these little defenseless kids.” And no, it’s NOT going to be, not EVER because a child is innocent and cannot consent.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Scientists Replicated 100 Psychology Studies, and Fewer Than Half Got the Same Results
            The massive project shows that reproducibility problems plague even top scientific journals
            Smithsonian magazine
            Smithsonian com

          • Enniscorthy

            What was I saying earlier about a single garbage link? Are you attempting to discredit the whole of science with something like this? And why is listening to your pastor a better option?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            i see ….. the SMITHSONIAN Institution ….. is a “garbage” link ….. WOW ….. and you are not “anti-science” ….. WOW ….. WOW ….. NOPE ….. PSYCHOLOGY is NOT SCIENCE as it CANNOT be replicated as any RELIABLE means as proof of fact ………. or truth ….. or ANYTHING ELSE but GARBAGE ……

          • Enniscorthy

            My mistake in calling it garbage. It isn’t, you’re just not reading it correctly. Did you happen to spot this passage: “The eye-opening results don’t necessarily mean that those original findings were incorrect or that the scientific process is flawed. When one study finds an effect that a second study can’t replicate, there are several possible reasons, says co-author Cody Christopherson
            of Southern Oregon University. Study A’s result may be false, or Study B’s results may be false—or there may be some subtle differences in the way the two studies were conducted that impacted the results.
            “This project is not evidence that anything is broken. Rather, it’s
            an example of science doing what science does,” says Christopherson. “It’s impossible to be wrong in a final sense in science. You have to be temporarily wrong, perhaps many times, before you are ever right.”

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            January 31, 2018 (Public Discourse) – Disagreement with pro-LGBT policies quickly gets one branded as anti-science. As Jonah Goldberg points out, this is an example of ideology using the language of science to camouflage itself.

            It turns out that actual science isn’t much help to transgender advocacy. The American Psychiatric Association’s DSM V notes gender dysphoria desistence rates of 70 to 97 percent in “natal males” and 50 to 88 percent in “natal females.” The American Psychological Association’s APA Handbook on Sexuality and Psychology states that the vast majority of gender dysphoric boys and girls accept their birth/chromosomal sex by adolescence or adulthood. University of Toronto psychologist Dr. James Cantor cites three large scale and other smaller studies showing trans-identifying kids will outgrow it 60 to 90 percent of the time. A 2008 study affirmed that 80 to 95 percent of gender dysphoric pre-pubertal children will accept their biological sex by the end of adolescence.

            Put plainly, transgender identification is something that most often corrects itself. An overwhelming probability of desistance is not a scientific case for identity politics and mandatory compliance with its demands.

            Not Pro-Science—No Science
            In 2016, the US National Institutes of Health began recruiting for a $5.7 million study of transgender minors, the largest to date. It will be the first to follow medical effects of delaying puberty, and only the second to track its psychological effects as well. As the website for the UC San Francisco Center of Excellence for Transgender Health notes, “While clinically becoming increasingly common, the impact of GnRH analogues [the puberty blocking drugs] administered to transgender youth in early puberty and <12 years of age has not been published.” A September 2017 JAMA Clinical Guidelines Synopsison hormone treatment of gender dysphoria offered six major recommendations, three of which encouraged hormone administration (starting in adolescence) and surgery (post-hormone treatment), despite these three being supported by “low” or “very low” evidence.

            Clearly, issuing major therapeutic recommendations based on low to no evidence is inconsistent with good practice. Leading the charge to bury contradictory findings, the UK’s Bath Spa University recently refused to allow a researcher—who is himself a gay-identified psychotherapist and a member of the World Professional Association for Transgender Health—to investigatepeople regretting their gender reassignment surgery who detransitioned to their birth sex.

            YOU HAVE NO SCIENCE ….. you have LIES …………

          • Enniscorthy

            As I said before, your argument is with the lawmakers.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope ….. my argument is with your lies …..

          • Enniscorthy

            I’m not lying, you just can’t accept the truth I’m telling you. And I’ve got the law on my side.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you continue to spout the lies that their life choices are not choices …. and that they are unchangeable ….. and those who spout lies are LIARS ………..

          • Enniscorthy

            This is why people keep telling you that homosexuality is innate. It IS, and the reason people need to tell you that is so you can let go of the ridiculous idea that people choose to be gay. If they’re gay it’s because that is the hand they were dealt, and nothing can change it.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “Changing your attraction?”

            again …… not the issue ….. and BTW ….. God and Christ can do that ………

          • Enniscorthy

            Well, He never has.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            NOPE …. WRONG …… He does it all the time ….. He does not do it for everyone …… God is NOT INCLUSIVE …… He is EXCLUSIVE ……. and He picks the ones HE chooses …. NOT US …..

          • Enniscorthy

            He has NEVER done it. It does not occur.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            all kinds of proof by peoples testimony …… that belies your position ….. and again …. ANTISCIENCE ……. denial of the evidence ……… wow ………

          • Enniscorthy

            People can make whatever testimony they like, some of them probably believe they were “cured” of their homosexuality because someone convinced them to live a sexless life. That doesn’t change their sexuality, it snuffs it out.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            YUP ….. and so can you THAT THEY WERE BORN THAT WAY …..

          • Enniscorthy

            I never said they were born that way. I said that however it happens, once it’s in place it cannot change. And I have the science to back up my statement.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            so you are saying homosexuals are NOT BORN THAT WAY ….. that trannies are NOT BORN THAT WAY ….. REALLY …………..

          • Enniscorthy

            We don’t know if they were born that way or whether it forms in early life. What we do know is that once it’s in place it doesn’t change.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            okay …… so what is your explanation FOR ALL THOSE FOR WHOM IT DID CHANGE …… you position is bankrupt …… you have NO LOGICAL position …….. you have no answers ……….

          • Enniscorthy

            I have no explanation because I don’t believe they changed. I think they’re either lying, or they have come to believe that living a sexless life (even though they will continue to feel those attractions for the rest of their lives) means they have “changed”.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            i see ….. so all those testimonies are lies …. and they are liars …… and you just said as much ……and here is the implication of YOUR premise …… all homosexuals and lesbians and trannies are just victims ……. and they are unable to have a real change in their lives ….. and if they were PEDOPHILES ….. YOU would deny them the samethings you are arguing for in homosexuals and lesbians and trannies names …… AND ….. if they are PEDOPHILES …. they became as such in the exact same fashion you suggest homosexuals and lesbians and trannies did …… but you have no reason other than bigotry to deny PEDOPHILES the exact same “rights” as homosexuals and lesbians and trannies ………… and your position is completely INCONSISTENT ……………

          • Enniscorthy

            They aren’t necessarily lying. They likely have deluded themselves. Because they’re no longer in homosexual relationships, they’re chalking it up as a win for their church. The problem is, abstinence doesn’t change your natural attraction. All you’ve done is shut yourself off.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “They likely have deluded themselves. Because they’re no longer in homosexual relationships”

            i see ….. so they became confused by becoming NOT homosexual ….. and your lies and confusion continue ………. and you wonder why you are called a liar ………..

          • Enniscorthy

            You don’t become “not homosexual” by abstaining from sexual intercourse. But if you think you do, then congratulations, you’re no different than the people who think “ex-gay” therapy works. Try to get them to be honest about whether they are now magically attracted to the opposite sex. Spoiler alert: They aren’t.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            no one made that claim …. STRAWMAN arguement ……….. FAIL …………

          • Enniscorthy

            You still don’t know what a strawman is either, no surprise there. But yes, they do think they’ve beaten homosexuality by turning celibate. LOTS of them.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            i made no claim about them not having sex to syop being homosexual …. that is all you and your failed argumentation ……… STRAWMAN ….. burn baby burn that strawman ……

          • Enniscorthy

            You didn’t make that claim but THEY did. And you STILL don’t know what a strawman is, just amazing.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “Not false science, accepted science.”
            “Changing your attraction?”

            “attractions” are FEELINGS ….. FEELINGS are NOT SCIENCE ….. FEELINGS do CHANGE ……

            so ….. NOT SCIENCE …… accepted or NOT …………

          • Enniscorthy

            Attractions are more than feelings. They are far more powerful. If you could just shut it off as you are claiming there would be many sexless people on earth. And I don’t have to tell you there aren’t. Most of the people who do without do so against their desire.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            No they are not more than FEELINGS …… FAIL ….. are they “powerful FEELINGS” ….. sure ….. SO WHAT …………… still …. FEELINGS are not SCIENCE …………

          • Enniscorthy

            They aren’t feelings, if you’re going to dismiss every single married person’s relationship as a bunch of “feelings” you’re probably going to get an earful from them.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            for many of them ….. it is JUST FEELINGS ………. so what …………

          • Enniscorthy

            It’s not “just feelings”. You’ll never admit it, but the same deep bonds and ties and love that cause people to get married are FAR more than “just feelings”. People marry because they are in love.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope ….. sorry ….. FEELINGS are not science ………… never will be ….. and you cannot make a case based on FEELINGS ………..

          • Enniscorthy

            As long as you continue to diminish a person’s innate desire for love and companionship as “just feelings” I don’t think it’s possible to have a serious discussion with you on this topic, sorry. And yes, there is science behind attraction.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            SO …. if it is INNATE ….. then PEDOPHILIA is OKEY-DOKEY ……. RIGHT …………. “a person’s innate desire for love and companionship” …. that is the STANDARD you have just SET …… so WHY does that not apply to PEDOPHILES ………

          • Enniscorthy

            It it’s innate, no it’s NOT “okey-dokey”. Find me one single human being who thinks that way. You can’t. No one thinks it’s ok to abuse children sexually. That isn’t my standard, and you need to stop saying it is. There is a huge difference between homosexual activity between consenting adults and the sexual abuse of kids.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            but if homosexuals are BORN THAT WAY and it is INNATE ….. and TRANNIES are also BORN THAT WAY and it is INNATE …… then the same STANDARD YOU SET APPLIES to PEDOPHILES ……… or WHY NOT ……………

          • Enniscorthy

            This is too, too delicious for words. You accused me of a strawman recently without knowing what it really means. Now I’m going to tell you something: YOU are guilty of a strawman argument.

            You keep sitting here telling me that I’m a hypocrite to be OK with homsexuality but not pedophilia when both are innate. The reason that’s a strawman is THAT IS NOT WHAT I SAID, and certainly not what I ever meant either.

            If somebody’s actions, no matter how innate they are, cause a child to be physically and emotionally damaged because of an act of non-consensual abuse, they I will stand against them. That’s always been my “standard”, not the one you keep INSISTING is my standard and I never never once claimed. “Innate” is NOT my argument, it’s the one you keep TELLING me is my argument. And “born that way”, which again I never said and don’t even particularly believe.

            So the reason I’m OK with homosexuality but not pedophilia is because in one situation an innocent party is abused, and in the other, no one is abused. It is consensual. THAT is my argument, informed consent, not whether it’s INNATE.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            NOPE …. it is applying the STANDARD you have set for SEXUALITY …… and if it changes or not …… and how DARE YOU tell a PEDOPHILE he or she has to go through a “sexless life” ………… to not have sex with a person he or she loves ….. who do you think you are …… /sarc off ……. and there is a DIFFERENCE between a strawman argument and SARCASM to ridicule your position …………

          • Enniscorthy

            Here you are again, telling me the “standard I have set for sexuality.” If it’s my so-called “standard”, why don’t you tell me where or when I ever said it? Once again, reading what you’ve written here, it sounds very much like you’re putting the rights of a pedophile over the child they choose to abuse. Are you doing this to make fun of my position, because once again, that ISN’T my position. I say protect the child at all costs and have always said that. The pedophile’s attractions (not love, as you said) are irrelevant if a child gets hurt. Whether strawman or sarcasm (and you’ve used both), you are deliberately misrepresenting my standards, and my position and my beliefs.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope …. YOU are putting the rights of homosexuals and lesbians and trannies over pedophiles when they got the way they are by the exact same mechanism as you suggest homosexuals and lesbians and trannies did ……. otherwise how did the pedophile get to be as he is …………….. what is your logical explanation …………..

          • Enniscorthy

            I would probably get in trouble here if I cut and pasted the words “consenting adults” 500 times, so let’s just imagine that’s what I’ve done, and see if that sinks in. I know it isn’t going to with you, because it never does.

            When pedophilia is a crime of sexual abuse against a minor and homosexuality is informed consent, please tell me why you keep insisting it’s the “exact same mechanism”. What are you not getting here?

            The issue isn’t how the pedophile got to be as he is. I don’t care. If he hurts a child, he has to be stopped. End of story. Homosexuals don’t hurt anyone and have consented with their partners.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you have yet to prove that consent is a viable measure of anything …….. nor have you proved that children cannot consent ….. in Washington state children as young as 12 can obtain an abortion with no parental consent ….. SO …. apparently they CAN CONSENT …. and your premise is INVALID ……….

          • Enniscorthy

            What we are talking about is the eyes of the law. A line has to be drawn somewhere where a child is not responsible for being placed in a sexual situation and different countries draw that line in different places. The point is, they all draw the line. If you think it’s perfectly OK for a child of 11 to be involved in a sexual situation with an adult, then say so, otherwise I think I’ve proven that consent is a viable measure AND proven the reason that children cannot consent. Why are you comparing abortion age to sexual consent age? Apples and oranges again.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ” Find me one single human being who thinks that way.”

            ANY PEDOPHILE ……………. and it is JUST YOUR OPINION it is abuse ….. and YOU ARE A BIGOT …… or you are wrong ………….

          • Enniscorthy

            I’m talking about non-pedophiles, obviously. Find me a single one. You can’t. No one wants to see children abused. And no one’s fighting for that, apart from a few pedophiles no one takes seriously.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            and why does that matter even one iota ……. but i have given you Alfred Kinsey and there are others ………. “apart from a few pedophiles no one takes seriously” …. oh …. you mean like “apart from a few homosexuals no one takes seriously”

          • Enniscorthy

            Fine, tell me where Kinsey gave pedophiles the OK to hurt children. I defy you.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope …. he said sex DOES NOT harm children ………. he did not say it was ok to hurt them ….. adult child sex caused the child no harm ….. and if you want further information about that science …… then you should first quit spouting your lies and do your own research ……. as you think the “science” is on your side …..

            WASHINGTON – A new peer-reviewed scientific study concludes the gender of researchers conducting certain lab experiments could be seriously impacting the results, noting the outcome often cannot be replicated.

            Published this month by the journal Science Advances, the paper, by Colin D. Chapman, Christian Benedict and Helgi B. Schiöth of Uppsala University in Sweden, is called “Experimenter gender and replicability in science.”

            With the concept of gender neutrality popular in the West, the authors found that more studies, especially clinical trials, are being reported without any mention of the gender of the experimenters.

            “Consequently, significant biases caused by the experimenter’s gender may lead researchers to conclude that therapeutics or other interventions are either overtreating or undertreating a variety of conditions,” the research paper concludes. “Bearing this in mind, this policy paper emphasizes the importance of reporting and controlling for experimenter gender in future research.”

            The report concludes “a replication crisis spreading through the annals of scientific inquiry.”

            The authors points out that some research groups report that attempts to replicate published data in biomedical science fail more often than they succeed.

            “A recent paper revealed that of 100 articles published in high-ranking psychology journals in 2008, only one-third to one-half of original findings were successfully replicated.”

          • Enniscorthy

            Your cute-and-pasted article has nothing to do with your original premise which is that Kinsey says pedophilia is harmless. He didn’t say that, and you haven’t proven that he did.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            no …. it does not ….. but it is a REFUTATION of your ridiculous lying position ………………..

          • Enniscorthy

            It doesn’t do that either. Did you read it?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Romans 9:20 reads, “Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to Him that formed it, ‘Why hast thou made me thus?’”

          • Enniscorthy

            Uh, yeah…like I was saying, God can’t change your eye color either.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            again …. red herring false argumentation …………

          • Enniscorthy

            No. And if you think I’m lying, try being homosexual for a day. Then, try being left-handed for a day (assuming you are right-handed). Neither is possible.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Right ….. tell that to all the people who are AMBIDEXTEROUS ………. tell that to all the people God has brought OUT OF homosexuality and all other types of depravity and SIN ……… and He does it every day ………….

          • Enniscorthy

            Some people are ambidextrous, yes, and some people are bisexual. No choices for them.
            But I think even YOU know they are in the vast, vast minority. When you can only form a loving bond with someone of the same sex and it’s the only way you can be happy, it’s not sin, and any church that teaches such hate should be shunned.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope …… most can be ambidexterous by CHOICE …… and most ARE bisexual BY CHOICE ….. and it is ONLY CHOICE …… and it IS SIN ………….. or else PEDOPHILIA IS cool …….

          • Enniscorthy

            No, you cannot be ambidextrous by choice. I could spend the rest of my life trying to write legibly with my left hand and it will always fail. Bisexuality isn’t a choice either, although the choice of partner’s gender might be. Pedophilia is irrelevant, it’s an act of abuse on a non-consenting minor.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            YES YOU CAN ……….. practice makes it possible ….. you are a liar ……….. bisexuality IS A CHOICE …… may not be one you or i would make …… BUT IT IS CHOICE ……….. and PEDOPHILIA is NOT IRRELEVANT as the SAME STANDARD YOU APPLY to homsexuals and trannies …… APPLIES ……..

          • Enniscorthy

            No, you cannot be ambidextrous by choice. You are born with the ability or you aren’t, just like your sexuality. You should be getting your education on these subjects from a science book, not from a church.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            where is your SCIENTIFIC STUDY that says so ….. YOU DO NOT HAVE ONE …… so JUST YOUR OPINION …… people do it all the time …. you are a LIAR ……….

          • Enniscorthy

            Name calling is against the rules of this channel. I hope the moderators are taking note. I haven’t once called you a name.

            You cannot choose to be ambidextrous. You are born that way. I had a teacher who was when I was in high school. He didn’t practice it.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope …. calling you what you are because of your position ….. your SELF-CONTRADICTORY position makes you what you are …… and it is not name calling to call a liar ….. A LIAR …….

          • Enniscorthy

            You’ve been asked once before to tell me where I self-contradicted, now I’m asking you again. I pointed out your strawman to you, there isn’t much more I can do now. You keep screaming at me that my argument is about “born that way” and “innate”, something I never said, and you seem to magically ignore those two key little words CONSENTING ADULTS every single time. That’s on you…not me.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            i have pointed it out again and again AT LENGTH ………… learn to parse ……….

          • Enniscorthy

            If you’re going to tell me yet again about how my standard includes “born that way”, then you’re wrong, and I’ve already told you that, because that isn’t my standard and it’s not my argument. Pedophiles are not homosexuals, I don’t excuse the former but I do excuse the latter and you know precisely why.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            NOPE …. you stated your standard that they “became that way sometime after they were born” although you cannot prove what that mechanism is …… so NO SCIENCE ….. and if homosexuals and lesbians and tarns-whatevers became that way then SO DID PEDOPHILES …… that is what you said is the way it happens ………… and AGAIN ….. not one bit of SCIENCE to backup that ridiculous claim …… other than THEY CHOSE to do it ………… and your continued ridiculous claim that it is UNCHANGEABLE …. AGAIN …. with not one IOTA OF SCIENCE ……………. so they are just VICTIMS ……

            and that is all a lie ….. and you keep spouting those lies …… and those who spout lies are what again ………… oh yeah …… LIARS …………..

          • Enniscorthy

            No, I never said they “became that way after they were born”, even though that might be true. We don’t know if it forms in the womb or in the early stages. But that wasn’t my argument. My argument was, is, and always will be that consenting adults are not performing acts of abuse as would be the case with a pedophile.

            So you still don’t get it, or are refusing to, even though this is at least the fourth time I’m telling you. No wonder you keep calling me a liar, you are believing what you want to and not even listening to what I say. If you were, you’d at least mention consenting adults.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            everything a homosexual or lesbian does to themselves, their partners and society causes harm ……….. it causes their premature death in most cases from EVERY cause across the board …….

          • Enniscorthy

            Oh, what nonsense. Stop assuming every homosexual is a bed-hopping nihilist.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            they do not have to be as you describe to suffer the effects of being homosexual …………..

          • Enniscorthy

            Being homosexual does not put anyone at risk of anything. If they are in completely monogamous relationships nothing is going to magically show up and kill them.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            NO EVIDENCE …. Prove that fallacious assertion ………….. with SCIENCE ….. not just your opinion …………..

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Obituraries numbering 6516 from 16 US homosexual journals over 12 years were compared to a large sample of obituaries from regular newspapers. The obituaries from the regular newspapers were similar to US averages for longevity, the median age of death of married men was 75, 80% of them died old, 65 or older. For unmarried or divorced men the median age of death was 57 and 32% of them died old.

            Married women averaged age 79 at death, 85% died old, and unmarried and divorced women averaged age 71, and 60% of them died old.

            However, the median age of death for homosexuals was virtually the same nationwide, and overall, less than 2% survived to old age. If AIDS was the cause of death, the median age was 39 years old. For the 829 homosexuals who died of something else besides AIDS, the median age was 42 years of age, and 9% died old. Of 163 lesbians, the median age was 44 years of age, and 20% died old. 2.8% of homosexuals died violently and they were 116 times more apt to be murdered, 24 times more apt to commit suicide, and had a traffic accident death rate 18 times greater than comparably aged white males. 20% of lesbians died of murder, suicide, or accident, a rate 487 times greater than that of white females aged 25 to 44.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            If you really don’t understand the difference between pedophilia and homosexuality….that kind of scares me a little, to be honest. (since, apparently, consent means nothing to you)

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            the CAUSE was stated ….. and difference is not at issue …… try following the thread ……

          • TheKingOfRhye

            You’re saying that by Enniscorthy’s “standards”, or at least what you think they are, he should be approving of pedophilia. Right?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “If you’re going to tell me yet again about how my standard includes “born that way”, then you’re wrong, and I’ve already told you that, because that isn’t my standard and it’s not my argument.,”

            Enniscorthy Reason2012 • 5 days ago
            “Adults continue to permanently turn away from homosexuality/
            transgenderism, even after decades of believing the lie they were “born
            that way”, proving it’s not genetic, but the product of indoctrination,
            confusion, mental instability and/or abuse.”

            No, they really don’t, because it’s not possible to turn from the sexuality you were born with,”

            IF HE IS CONSISTANT ….. and he is not ….. and his position is SELF-CONTRADICTORY and a LIE ………….

          • TheKingOfRhye

            IF HE IS CONSISTANT ….. and he is not ….. and his position is SELF-CONTRADICTORY and a LIE ………….

            You should really work on making complete sentences, you know. I can barely understand what you’re saying.

            Whether Enniscorthy is consistent or not is beside my point. YOU are making the argument that one who is tolerant of homosexuality should also be tolerant of adults having sexual relations with minors, are you not? You disagree that there’s a difference between a consensual act between two adults and a non-consensual one between an adult and a minor?

            I think that’s a pretty reprehensible, abhorrent, vile point of view.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            if they are born that way ….. and you are consistent …… then you have no argument to treat them different and persecute them for things not in their control ………. except BIGOTRY ……… “I think that’s a pretty reprehensible, abhorrent, vile point of view.” …. and we agree …. so why do you not hold him accountable for his view that “they were born that way” just as homosexuals and lesbians and transwhatevers ….. “consent” is IRRELEVANT in that worldview as there are states (Washington for example) that allow 12 and 13 year-olds to consent to an abortion and numerous other MEDICAL procedures with no “consent” of parents whatsoever …………. yes … that is a “pretty reprehensible, abhorrent, vile point of view.” ….. and yet YOU HOLD IT ALSO ……………

          • TheKingOfRhye

            if they are born that way ….. and you are consistent …… then you
            have no argument to treat them different and persecute them for things
            not in their control

            If I or he had made the argument that ANY desire that you’re born with is okay to act upon BECAUSE you’re born with it or that it is innate, then you might have a point, but neither of us have.

            And YOU might think consent should be irrelevant to me, but it is not. “Irrelevant to that worldview”, huh? You don’t even know what my worldview IS. (though you sure seem to think you do)

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope ….. CONSENT IS IRRELEVANT when a 12-13 tear old can consent to just about anything ……… IRRELEVANT …….. “You don’t even know what my worldview IS. ” ….and you have argued here long enough for your views to be known ……. JUST as you have made it known right now on this topic ……… so stick that in your ear ………..

          • TheKingOfRhye

            CONSENT IS IRRELEVANT when a 12-13 year old can consent to just about anything ……… IRRELEVANT

            Okay then….answer me this question: Why is rape bad? (if you think it is bad, that is….I can’t too be around sure sometimes)

            you have plainly said you are an “agnostic atheist”

            Yeah, I know, you just seem to not have any understanding of what that actually means.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            YOU answer why rape is bad ….. as an “agnostic atheist” you have absolutely no basis to say it is good or bad or evil or vile wonderful or any other thing …… you have NO OBJECTIVE MORALITY to even one thing about it ……. except that YOUR PERSONAL OPINION is that you do not like it ……. and that is about it ………. only YOUR OPINION ….. no OBJECTIVE STANDARD ……

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Nuh-uh. I asked you the question. If you can’t answer a simple question, there’s no point in having this conversation.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            NOPE ….. you CANNOT EVEN GET to a charge of “rape” as you have no OBJECTIVE MORALITY to even come to a conclusion that a “rape” even EVER occurred ……….. PROVE that anything whatsoever is “rape” …… you claim “rape” ….. PROVE YOUR CLAIM …… but according to an “agnostic”view that probably is “unknowable” ….. and from an “atheistic” point of view it is just this bit of biological protoplasm doing something to ANOTHER bit of biological protoplasm and you do not like it ……… and it is JUST YOUR OPINION ………… “rape” requires a MORAL judgement ….. and YOU have ABANDONED that ……….

          • TheKingOfRhye

            So, yeah….you’re basically telling me you need your god to tell you that rape is wrong, which is pretty much where I thought you were gonna go.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            i am telling you YOUR ATHEISTIC worldview has no means of determining right or wrong or good or bad or rape or love or any other thing ……. you have no standard outside of yourself ….. it is all JUST YOUR OPINION ………..

          • Enniscorthy

            You’ve joined the ranks of the “noped”.

          • Spirit Plumber

            If you think that rape is a good thing, there’s counseling available, please make use of it.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            not sure what that comment has to do with this conversation ….. but whatever ……….

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “If I or he had made the argument that ANY desire that you’re born with is okay to act upon BECAUSE you’re born with it”

            BUT that is EXACTLY the outcome of that worldview ….. and it is “a pretty reprehensible, abhorrent, vile point of view.” ……….. and it is yours …………

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “Enniscorthy Amos Moses – He>i • an hour ago
            If you’re going to tell me yet again about how my standard includes “born that way”, then you’re wrong, and I’ve already told you that, because that isn’t my standard and it’s not my argument. ”

            Enniscorthy Reason2012 • 5 days ago
            “Adults continue to permanently turn away from homosexuality/
            transgenderism, even after decades of believing the lie they were “born
            that way”, proving it’s not genetic, but the product of indoctrination,
            confusion, mental instability and/or abuse.”

            No, they really don’t, because it’s not possible to turn from the sexuality you were born with,”

            YOUR LIES EXPOSED …………. you said …. THEY ARE BORN THAT WAY …. BORN WITH IT ……

          • Enniscorthy

            I went over every one of my statements. All are true. Your opinion disproves nothing.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            your STATEMENTS are SELF-CONTRADICTORY and therefore LIES ……….. and you are a LIAR ………..

          • Enniscorthy

            There is no contradiction. Everything lines up perfectly. The failure going on here is at your end, you simply fail to understand what’s being said to you.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            your STATEMENTS are SELF-CONTRADICTORY and therefore LIES ……….. and you are a LIAR ……….. your documented statements are DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED to each other …… they cannot both be true ….. and again … makes you a LIAR ………..

            >>>>>>>”If you’re going to tell me yet again ABOUT HOW MY STANDARD INCLUDES includes “born that way”, then you’re wrong”<<<<>>>”THEY WERE BORN WITH IT. <<<< Or it forms in early life. The point is you can't change it."

            SELF-CONTRADICTORY …… LIES ………….. keep writing ….. because the best ammunition against you is the ammunition your own statements supply …… please …. keep writing ……..

          • Enniscorthy

            They were born with it (or it formed in early life) – correct. More to the point, they’re unable to change, however they happened to develop it.

            But that wasn’t the argument I was making when you started bringing up pedophilia. That was an entirely different argument I gave you which was about consenting adults.

            None of those statement is a lie or contradictory because I happen to believe them both.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            >>>>>>>”If you’re going to tell me yet again ABOUT HOW MY STANDARD INCLUDES >>>>>>>> “born that way”, then you’re wrong”<<<<>>>”THEY WERE BORN WITH IT. <<<< Or it forms in early life. The point is you can't change it."

            SELF-CONTRADICTORY …… LIES ………….. keep writing ….. because the best ammunition against you is the ammunition your own statements supply …… please …. keep writing ……..

          • Enniscorthy

            You aren’t getting it, are you?
            I can state that they are born with it or it forms in early life, but that is NOT THE ARGUMENT I used with YOU. And furthermore, me saying that they’re born with it or it forming early in life were only stated because people like YOU are always saying people CHOOSE it.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “I can state that they are born with it or it forms in early life, but that is NOT THE ARGUMENT I used with YOU”

            you used it …. with me or not is not at issue …… you wrote it …. so it belongs to you ….. and it is self-contradictory and a lie ………. the issue is not me … the issue is YOUR self-contradiction …….. you are pretty much done here ……..

          • Enniscorthy

            So WHAT? So it means you have to pay attention to what’s being said to you rather than pulling out an argument from another discussion. It so happens I stand by all my statements, but when you start to tell me that my “worldview” and “standard” is such that “born that way” means I’m going to excuse pedophiles, then I’m going to tell you that you haven’t been paying attention at all. My official answer to your “born that way” and “innate” argument is “consenting adults”. Something you never seem to want to talk about.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            let me read you your rights …… you have the right to remain silent …… if you give up your right to remain silent ALL your words (especially the ones YOU entered here) are taken down and can be used AGAINST you ……. you forfeited your right to silence by entering comments on a PUBLIC and CHRISTIAN forum …… you are now wide open to all your comments being used against you …… and they prove you to be a LIAR …………. live with your mistakes ….. or retract your nonsense ….. or take a hike Mike ……

          • Enniscorthy

            Oh, baloney. You keep making it sound like I’ve got some reason to be ashamed of my words. I stand by every one.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you are a liar …. and that does not make you ashamed ….. that just about says it all ………

          • Enniscorthy

            It isn’t a lie to tell you things that you don’t want to hear.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            it is a lie when you keep making self contradictory statements …………..

          • Enniscorthy

            Which I haven’t made. I listed all my statements, and stand by them all. None contradict the other.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            AGAIN ….. let me read you your rights …… you have the right to remain silent …… if you give up your right to remain silent ALL your words (especially the ones YOU entered here) are taken down and can be used AGAINST you ……. you forfeited your right to silence by entering comments on a PUBLIC and CHRISTIAN forum …… you are now wide open to all your comments being used against you ……

          • Enniscorthy

            Nothing I have said should offend Christians, only prejudiced people. It isn’t a part of your faith to hate of minorities, that is simply the church you chose.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            lying offends christians ………. telling people they are incapable of change is a lie and offends christians …….. “It isn’t a part of your faith to hate on minorities” ……. red herring ….. and as i said …. YOU hate on them by telling them they are incapable of changing ….. and that is BIGOTED …….. and a lie ….. and you LIE TO THEM ……… and that is HATRED and BIGOTRY of the highest order ……. so step back and look at yourself ………..

          • Enniscorthy

            As I have demonstrated several times, I haven’t lied. Is this a fun game for you, insisting I have lied without being able to give a single example? I’ve backed up over and over every one of my statements WITH illustrations.

            I don’t hate homosexuals simply because they can’t change their orientation any more than I hate blue eyed people for not being able to change their eye color. I have no basis to hate either one. If a homosexual can be happy with another person like everyone else, then I fail to see a problem.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you tell lies you believe …. still makes you a liar ………… as you spread lies ………. your belief in the lies are not relevant to them being lies ……….. and again ….. telling people they are incapable of change is a lie and it is hateful bigotry ………….

          • Enniscorthy

            You think the broken record approach is going to “nope” me into submission or something? Look, you’re wrong, OK? I haven’t lied and I’m not the one peddling hate and snake oil

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            my being here having this conversation is not about your “submission” ….. it is about the truth and your denial of it and pointing it out ……. and your statements are hateful bigotry ….. and they are lies ….. lies you agree with …. but still lies all the same …………

          • Enniscorthy

            You simply call anything you disagree with a lie. I’ve seen you do this with other people. I’m tired of defending what I’ve said and presenting you with the evidence. If you’re going to keep knee-jerking the name calling and nopes then you’re not advancing this discussion at all.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “You simply call anything you disagree with a lie. ”

            NOPE ….. i call LIES LIES …… and the people who tell them LIARS ……….. “and presenting you with the evidence” … you have presented no evidence that i recall ….. just YOUR OPINION …… “knee-jerking the name calling and nopes then you’re not advancing this discussion at all” …. it is not “knee-jerking the name calling and nopes” …… it is calling lies what they are and i have no interest in helping you advance your lies that homosexuals are incapable of change …………….. that is hateful bigotry ………..

          • Enniscorthy

            Hateful bigotry is what you’re trying to peddle here, you’re basically stating that homosexuals have a sickness that only Jesus can cure. You don’t base this on anything factual, but your own opinions. You take any and all criticism as a threat and your knee-jerk reaction is to call people names. You don’t set a very good example for Christians. By the way, homosexuals can’t change orientation. Nobody can.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope … not trying to peddle anything here but the gospel …………. YOU came here ….. WE did not go seeking YOU …… you got your panties in a wad because you are caught telling lies …. you are telling hurtful and hateful lies about homosexuals and their inability to change …….. and you are the “knee-jerk” reaction …… scripture is not my opinion ….. it is the truth ….. or did you want to challenge that presumption ………………. ” By the way, homosexuals can’t change orientation. Nobody can.” ….. more of your hateful bigotry ……….

          • Enniscorthy

            You’re spinning in circles, Dr. Nope. You have literally nothing left to back you up but your own opinion. You have disproven no lies and your comparison of homosexuals to pedophiles alone shows your hostility to them. Move along now.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            your lies are proven to everyone but yourself ……. and i did not compare them …… i pointed out YOUR inconsistency and your hatred and bigotry towards them ……

          • Enniscorthy

            Sorry, Dr. Nope. You’ve had it explained over and over, referenced over and over, you can continue to stamp your feet and shake your head all you like but this is over now, and all your nopes can do nothing to change that.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            NOPE ….. LOLOLOLOL ………… thats all you guys can ever come up with when you cannot proceed with your lies and diatribe …… all you have are epithets and ” stamp your feet and shake your head all you like but this is over now” ….. WHAT A JOKE ………. i cannot even count the number of times i have read that exact same ridiculous statement ……. “but this is over now” ……… LOLOLOLOLOLOL ……….. SEE YA, WOULD NOT WANT TO BE YA …… although i am pretty sure i will …….. WACWOHP …………..

          • Enniscorthy

            “i cannot even count the number of times i have read that exact same ridiculous statement ……. “but this is over now”

            That’s because you seem to think that being tenacious and having the last word makes you right, but it doesn’t. And I can keep this up as long as you can. All I need to do is keep calling out you on the things that end up being matters of your own opinion, and pointing to the science on the matter. All your noping isn’t going to have the slightest effect.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            UK Labour Party suspends 2 members for saying transsexuals who were born male are not women

            Accetance without exception ….. no compromise in that ……

            In a Time of Universal Deceit — Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act

          • Enniscorthy

            Good and proper, if you can’t be respectful about a person’s gender especially when you’re in a government position, it’s time for you to say bye bye.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            sure … telling the truth should get you fired ……. NOPE …………..

          • Enniscorthy

            I have the right to be called by what I am legally called, and if you or anyone else can’t abide by that, it’s time to say bye bye.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            and i have the right to not FEED INTO your delusion of what you think you are …. or are not ………. bye ….. see ya …. would not wanna be ya …………

          • Enniscorthy

            Well, take it up with the government then, or face the consequences as your examples did. Your choice entirely.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            NOPE ….. i do not have to “take it up with the government ….. YOU are the one here spreading LIES …… i am taking it up with YOU ……….

          • Enniscorthy

            Yep, and you would go to jail and I wouldn’t.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            NOPE ….. i am talking about talking to YOU …………. here ……….. that is “taking up your lies with you” ……… but nice try at BSING ……..

          • Enniscorthy

            I follow the law and agree with it, you want the law to do as your religion demands.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you can agree with whatever you choose …… that does not make it truth ………..

          • Enniscorthy

            And just because it’s the religion you elect to follow doesn’t make it truth either.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope …. i did not “elect” or choose in any manner to follow religion ….. FAIL ………

          • Enniscorthy

            You chose a religion like everyone else on earth who has a religion.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope ………. your basic misunderstanding of who chooses christianity as you nothing of it …… CHRIST does all the choosing ….. i had no part in the choice …..

          • Enniscorthy

            No, the people who are Christians had a choice between every other religion out there or no religion at all. They chose.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “he people who are Christians had a choice between every other religion out there or no religion at all”

            sure ….. but those who became christians had no part in the choice ………

          • Enniscorthy

            I know very few Christians who would make such a claim.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            so what …………

          • TheKingOfRhye

            That’s actually true for a lot of people….in a way, but maybe not in the way you might think. Most people’s religion is what they grew up in and were raised with.

          • LynnRH

            I’d like to be the fly on the wall when you try to tell God that the day you die.
            I take that back…….no I wouldn’t. I really feel sorry for you because it won’t be a pretty picture.

          • Enniscorthy

            Your paranoid revenge fantasy, your rules, I suppose.

          • LynnRH

            I have no need to be paranoid about seeing Him face to face anymore. I use to have reasons to be. But i’m covered in the blood of Jesus Christ the Savior now. He sees me as sinless even though I am not. But because of His precious gift to me I will always strive to Honor His name by trying to live my life obeying His Word and witnessing to the lost. Just doin my job and the lost can take it or leave it.

          • Enniscorthy

            Your entire religion is based on the revenge you want against those who believe differently than you do. Not very Christian, either. “Just you wait, just you wait when you stand before God.” I can practically picture you standing on the sidelines cheering. I want nothing to do with your schadenfraude or savage glee.

          • LynnRH

            I definitely do not look forward to revenge for the lost. No matter what you want to think. But God will have the final word and you have had and I hope you continue to have many more chances to accept God as real and His Son Jesus Christ as your Savior before you die. If you don’t, oh well, you’ve have your chance(s). The words “when you stand before God” aren’t meant to be savage glee. Those are words meant to open your eyes. Even as a Christian I still get to hear those words because I know i’m going to stand before Almighty God too. Every one of us will; saved or not. But that presence before Him will feel so different depending on whether you are saved or not I can guarantee. Not a threat……just fair warning. 🙂

          • Enniscorthy

            Yes, God will have the last word, so why don’t you let God have the last word instead of feeling the need to deliver it yourself? Since neither of us knows what it will be?

          • LynnRH

            “So why don’t you let God have the last word instead of feeling the need to deliver it yourself?”

            If you read the bible you will notice God says what sin is. Also if you read the bible God says we that are saved (bc we accepted Jesus as Savior and LORD OF OUR LIFE and turned away from our sins) are to go out and spread His Good News. Sorry if it offends you but i’m just trying to do my job. It offends me when people want to be contrary to His Word, too.

          • Enniscorthy

            You are called to judge righteously, I get that, but not SELF-righteously which is what you or anyone else is doing when you presume to know and tell them that they’re going to hell. That kind of statement is really just saying follow MY belief system or suffer the consequences.

          • LynnRH

            God Himself tells you in the Bible it is His way or the Hellway. I’m just telling the Good News i’m told to speak by Him. Telling people God says His Son Jesus Christ is the one and only way to Heaven. If by the time you die you haven’t chosen Heaven (through Jesus) the other alternative is Hell. Where do you think I learned all this stuff????? It’s in the Bible. All i’m doing is following instructions.

            So let’s hear your version of the right way to tell people of The Good News. But remember people need to know what sin is in order to turn away from it as God says. And of course most people are going to want to know what will happen if they DON”T repent of those sins and accept Jesus as Savior and Lord of their life. Please, let us hear how it should be done.

      • TheSayer

        “No, they really don’t, because it’s not possible to turn from the sexuality you were born with”…
        So babies are born sexually aware, you advocating for pedophilia.

        • Samwise

          No. That is not how it works. This is just like handedness. A baby is born either left handed or right handed because this wiring is inate. This does not mean a newborn has any awareness of this.

          • TheSayer

            “human children, are sexual beings “…so that is how you view them.In contrast to what the Bible says in 1 Cor 7:36 (for age of consent being past youth ie late teens).Liberals have tried to sell that canard of born with it even Bill had it in his erroneous documentary Religulous, but they have dropped it since getting the legislation they wanted.No gay gene has ever been found and it is not there it’s a lifestyle you choose to learn.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            No gay gene has ever been found

            I’m 100% pro-LGBT rights, and, ya know what….I don’t care if they have found a “gay gene” or not or if they ever find one. I’ve never based any argument I made on “they’re born that way,” because, I don’t know if that’s true or not. Is it so unreasonable to suppose that one’s sexual orientation, if it’s not something you’re born with, is something that develops as you grow up, but still didn’t have a choice in?

            it’s a lifestyle you choose to learn.

            Being gay (or hetero, or bi) is not a lifestyle, it’s an orientation. People of any one sexual orientation have a wide range of lifestyles. If your complaint is against people who live promiscuous lifestyles, just keep in mind that that’s hardly limited to gay people.

          • LynnRH

            Lol that’s for sure! In this society we live in now ABSOLUTELY!!

          • TheKingOfRhye

            People complaining about the “promiscuous gay lifestyle” or whatever they call it never seem to be nearly as concerned about promiscuity among heterosexuals. That makes me suspect it’s not really the promiscuity that they have a problem with.

          • LynnRH

            Promiscuity whether it is by the homosexuals or by the heterosexuals is equal in sin. One is not any more sinful than the other. They are both counted as sexual sins. The problem is that the agenda the homosexuals are trying to smear in the rest of the worlds faces. Trying to somehow convince others that this is a normal lifestyle and should be accepted. It is no more accepted as normal and okay with God than adultery or fornication. So because it isn’t okay with God it is NOT okay with true born-again Christians because we WILL agree with His Word and not mankinds word.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            The problem is that the agenda the homosexuals are trying to smear in the rest of the worlds faces.

            What “agenda”? To be treated like and accorded the same rights as everyone else? Is that what you consider “smearing in your face”? I mean, you absolutely have the right to believe whatever the heck you want about homosexuals, call them sinners, tell everybody they’re going to hell, etc, etc…..fact is, though, the US Constitution gives them the same rights as everyone else. Equal protection under the law and all that. Just like Pres.Trump said himself in that letter to the Log Cabin Republicans that there was a story about here.

            (gotta check if Hell froze over, I agreed with something Trump said….lol)

            Also, just remember it’s not a case of homosexuals vs the “rest of world”, like some people seem to think.

          • Enniscorthy

            “The problem is that the agenda the homosexuals are trying to smear in the rest of the world faces”

            There is no agenda except to say they are what they are and cannot change, so stop calling them sinners and let them live their lives in peace.

          • LynnRH

            They are sinners because God says so. And i’m not causing them to not be able to live their lives in peace. All i’m doing it standing firm on God’s Word.

          • Enniscorthy

            Except that God is silent on the subject of homosexuality in the Bible.

          • LynnRH

            Bwahahaha! Better read it again.

          • Enniscorthy

            I have. It is common knowledge that Jesus was silent on the subject.

          • LynnRH

            You must have accidentally skipped over this part. That happens a lot these days.
            Leviticus 18:22 (KJV): “Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind it is an abomination.”

          • Enniscorthy

            And who do you think was the author of that quote?

          • LynnRH

            Who do you think it was?

          • Enniscorthy

            Well, I know it wasn’t Jesus speaking.

          • LynnRH

            Leviticus is thought by bible scholars to have been written by Moses. But really it doesn’t matter who had written it. All of the books of the Holy Bible was written by people God (who is also Jesus) inspired to write what He wanted us to know and live by. You have the right to believe or not. I along with many other true Christians choose to believe.

            Btw…..i’m just almost sure you would much more enjoy blogging on a website for unbelievers. You’d have much more in common with them after all. And I know you probably don’t want to be prayed for but you will be anyway. Like it or not.

          • Enniscorthy

            You can pray all you like, but you are praying for God to take your side and reject mine. That is not the point of prayer. The question was what Jesus had to say on the subject of homosexuality in the Bible. You can scour the Bible from top to bottom, but the answer will always be the same: nothing at all. That is a simple fact. And I would ask you how honest you are being when you take that simple fact and cloud it with romantic notions of all scripture being the word of God and getting around it in that manner.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            sure …. sick according to who …… if they were pedophiles “because this wiring is innate” as part of their sexuality …….. then WHO ARE YOU to say it is wrong ……. this is where your logic breaks down ………. and your thinking is futile …..

            IF “Humans, including human children, are sexual beings but that is not justification for abuse.” ….. THEN GUESS WHAT …… it is not an EXCUSE for anyone to act as they are born ….. and that INCLUDES homosexuality, beastiality, lesbianism, trans-whateverism, and any other BEHAVIOR you want to try to justify as “i was born this way and it cannot change” ……. your position is ENTIRELY inconsistent …..

          • Samwise

            It is wrong to harm people.

            Being born left handed is not justification for punching a child with your left hand.

            I have no idea what makes people attracted to children, but the action of harming children is wrong. OTOH, sex between consenting adults is their own business.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            says who …. who says it is wrong ….. on what basis ……

        • Enniscorthy

          When did I say babies were born sexually aware, or make any pro-pedophilia statement?
          Your sexuality, whether inborn or developed soon after birth, is not a matter of choice.

    • Samwise

      People permanently turn away from homosexuality?

      Like Josh Weed, a gay man who said he overcame his homosexual urges, married and fathered 4 children. Mr. Weed was held up by conservatives as an example in Oberfell.

      Oops.

      Mr. Weed announced this week that he and his wife are divorcing, because he is still gay.

      A left handed person can write with their right hand for a time, but it isn’t natural for them and the stress continues to build. It cannot be sustained.

  • Amos Moses – He>i

    CONSERVATIVES ARE SUPPRESSED FOR SIN OF EXPRESSING OPINIONS MILLIONS OF AMERICANS HOLD
    Social Marxism has turned Americans with different political opinions into enemies

  • Lydia Church

    That’s when it ceases to be ‘the church.’
    It turns into the golden calf festival of sexually immoral revelry and idol worship, in the ‘name’ of ‘church.’ Sad. As are all who do not see this fact.

  • A bishop’s boss is the Almighty, the Creator, the All-Powerful One, the One that is Perfect & knew no sin, right? So, in this acceptance of gender transition, aren’t they really saying, “Ooopppsss He did it again? God done went & messed up another one. He just keeps making umps in His manufacturing process so let me, a mere creation of His, help Him out a bit.”

  • Jack Olson

    “He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord.” (Deuteronomy 23:1)

    That doesn’t sound like God wants people to mutilate their bodies.

    • Michael C

      “No one of illegitimate birth shall enter the assembly of the LORD; none of his descendants, even to the tenth generation, shall enter the assembly of the LORD.” (Deuteronomy 23:2)

      That doesn’t sound like God wants people who have parents who made mistakes (or their ancestors).

      • Gene Schneider

        Those statutes prohibit eunuchs and bastards from entering the public meeting at the Tabernacle, not from entering the Jewish faith.

        • Michael C

          A broader context is required to understand the meaning of a single verse?

      • Gary Turner

        You made a semi-clever play on Jack Olson’s words. But no one is persuaded by jokes and witticisms. If it’s your contention that God WANTS us to pay charlatan doctors to chop off healthy sexual organs, please defend your position by Scripture or reason. Either one will do.

        • Michael C

          But no one is persuaded by jokes and witticisms.

          Bible verses are jokes?

          We have two verses that are literally side-by-side. If one means one thing, shouldn’t the second mean the same thing?

          • Gary Turner

            You changed the subject from WHAT God wants to WHOM God wants; and you didn’t explain what you mean by “wants.”

          • Michael C

            Sorry. So God doesn’t want people to allow their parents to conceive them out of wedlock. It’s a “what” and not a “whom” statement. Does that make any more sense than it did before?

  • Jack Olson

    “The belief that a woman can be trapped inside a man’s body is ludicrous and superstitious, with no basis in medical fact.”

    [from the article, PRINCETON PROF: TRNASGENDERISM NOT SCIENTIFIC, SUPERSTITIOUS BELIEF, (Breitbart, 16 May 2016)]

    • Dean Garrett

      If the Church of England bishops had an ounce of common sense, they would urge the transgendered to sue their doctors for medical malpractice.

  • Honesty Counts

    What these religuous heads forget is that God doesn’t change his word according to changing societal views on homosexuality.
    His word is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, and he has never approved of homosexuals.

    • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

      Amen.

    • Tonya Elise

      Shut up . YOU ARE A SINNER> You sin , Are you worthy of the Cross? HATE is not of God. SO tell us you sins. GREATER to lead people to the Cross than to turn people away.YOUR SINS are sins no different than anyone else. *** Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free,
      nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.***__
      I AM CREATED BY GOD > I am trans-gender and i am still a Christian.
      *** John 14:6King James Version (KJV)
      6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto
      the Father, but by me.
      *** Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free,
      nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.***__
      I AM CREATED BY GOD > I am trans-gender and i am still a Christian.
      Judge not lest ye be judged. The Trans-gender people have been around
      since before Jesus was on earth.
      **** John 3:16 i am saved. Your Judgement
      on my is a Sin. Let those without sin cast the first stone ! _
      **** Matthew 7:1-3King James Version (KJV) 7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
      2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged:
      and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
      3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye,
      but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
      **** Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things
      are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
      Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest:
      for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that
      judgest doest the same things.
      AS A CHRISTIAN IS IS OUR JOB TO BRING PEOPPLE TO THE CROSS AND JESUS and not turn people away. WE ALL SIN, EVEN So-called Christians SIN and YOU are no different !!!!

    • Bob Johnson

      What is His eternal Word on divorce? Can divorced people repent and continue to live with their new spouse?

      • LynnRH

        Any sin can be forgiven as long as there is true repentance (sincere regret and remore and then a turning away from). The only sin that can not be forgiven is the continued rejection of Jesus Christ our Savior. If you die still rejecting Him you will go to Hell. Heaven is sinless and God will not allow sin to enter. Otherwise what would we have? Another crappy world like we live in now.

        • Bob Johnson

          So I take it that Ronald Reagan, Newt Gingrich, and Donald Trump won’t be going to Heaven as none have turned away from their second and third wives.

          • LynnRH

            God never did want a married man and wife to divorce because marriage was meant to be a life-long commitment. We need to work at making our marriages work. But, as you probably know, there are times (such as abuse, abandonment, adultery, etc) that it just can’t be fixed. God does not expect a person to have to endure those evils mentioned above. And as far as those people you mentioned above…….their sins can be (if they aren’t already) forgiven by God as well as anyone else’s can be. All born-again Chrisitains have sins in their past. But we are covered now in the blood of Jesus Christ and that will keep us saved.

  • TheSayer

    All sinners should be welcome to church so that they repent, be saved and join the body of Christ in its sanctification.

    • Drake

      Uhmmm… No, sinners are supposed to repent, THEN join the church. The ‘church’ is a body of believers. Believers are supposed to go out into the world and testify to the truth, so that seekers can know the truth and be set free through repentance and baptism, thus becoming sanctified believers and part of the church.

  • Vince

    This has been said before, but it’s worth repeating: the more “inclusive” the left-wing churches become, the more they shrink. The numbers don’t lie.

    Calling itself “the Church of England” is a joke. Very few English attend. There are more devout Muslims in England than devout Church of England members.

    • Adam Valentine

      All churches are shrinking. People if faith are shrinking. The world is abandoning silly superstition at an alarming pace

      • Vince

        No, the FACT is that many conservative churches are growing.

        And evangelical Christianity is growing by leaps and bounds in Africa, Asia, and Latin America.

        Sorry to disappoint you. Your kind has been predicting the demise of Christianity for 2000 years. Hasn’t happened yet, never will. We’re built to last.

        Now go cry.

  • Tonya Elise

    GOD CREATED HERMAPHRODITES Trans-people are about the same. trans_people CAN BE CHRISTIANS So, Christians that HATE other Christians ARE NOT REALLY CHRISTIANS OR NOT NOT ACTING AS CHRISTIANS at all… *** Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free,
    nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.***__
    I AM CREATED BY GOD > I am trans-gender and i am still a Christian.
    *** John 14:6King James Version (KJV)
    6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto
    the Father, but by me.
    *** Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free,
    nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.***__
    I AM CREATED BY GOD > I am trans-gender and i am still a Christian.
    Judge not lest ye be judged. The Trans-gender people have been around
    since before Jesus was on earth.
    **** John 3:16 i am saved. Your Judgement
    on my is a Sin. Let those without sin cast the first stone ! _
    **** Matthew 7:1-3King James Version (KJV) 7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
    2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged:
    and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
    3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye,
    but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
    **** Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things
    are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
    Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest:
    for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that
    judgest doest the same things.
    AS A CHRISTIAN IS IS OUR JOB TO BRING PEOPPLE TO THE CROSS AND JESUS and not turn people away. WE ALL SIN, EVEN So-called Christians SIN and YOU are no different !!!!

    • Amos Moses – He>i

      but if they do not REPENT of their sins then there is no cross to bring them to ….. and all your scripture is quoted out of context …………… and meaningless …….

    • Amos Moses – He>i

      you do not get to hold on to your sins and Christ at the same time ……… so WRONG ….

      • LynnRH

        absolutely right Amos! For some reason many people think they can just pick and choose the parts of the Bible they like and ignore the ones they don’t like. And then think they are saved. Bologna! Being saved and repenting of the sins God says is a sin shows that you are “transformed”. You are letting God be God. You are acknowledging that You are not your own God anymore. Whatever He says is the way it will be………Not your way that is contrary to His!

    • LynnRH

      “Transpeople have been around before Jesus was on the earth.”
      I don’t think there is anyone who would dispute that. There has been all kinds of sin on this earth long before Jesus came to the earth. Why do you think He felt the NEED to come to earth for? Because of all the ugliness called sin. He came to show us the way to Heaven because if we didn’t accept His way to Heaven (Jesus’ blood sacrifice and repent from the sins He said were sins (including sexual sins) then we were/are headed straight to Hell.

  • Drake

    “Church of England” smacks of State Religion, not founded by God. They neglect at their peril that Jesus said, “For I say unto you, That
    except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes
    and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.” (Matt 5:20)