School Board Drops Hobby Lobby President’s Proposed Bible Course Following Complaint

Green Aitken Bible Credit Green CollectionMUSTANG, Okla. — An Oklahoma school board has dropped its plans to offer an elective Bible course proposed by the president of the popular craft chain Hobby Lobby following objection from a self-proclaimed atheist organization and a church-state separation group.

As previously reported, the Mustang School Board had agreed in April to move forward with the “Museum of the Bible” curriculum presented by Steve Green, the president of Hobby Lobby and overseer of the traveling Bible exhibit “Passages.” Green had introduced the course to the school board last fall, explaining to those present that he would like to offer an introductory course on “the Old and New Testament’s impact on society.”

He had been invited by Mustang School District Superintendent Sean McDaniel to speak about the proposed class for Mustang High School, and 170 students selected the course as their first choice for an elective when polled about the matter.

But the Madison, Wisconsin-based Freedom from Religion Foundation (FFRF) and the Washington, D.C.-based Americans United for Separation of Church and State (AUSCS) took issue with the course, stating that it was unconstitutional.

“The materials show a clear Christian bias, treat the Bible as historically accurate and true in all respects and make theological claims,” FFRF wrote to the district earlier this year.

It asserted that the course was “bias” because it cited God’s pleasant attributes, such as “faithful and good,” “gracious and compassionate,” “ever-present help in times of trouble” and “righteous judge,” but not those that the organization deemed unpleasant. FFRF also disliked a sentence in the curriculum that read, “[W]e can conclude that the Bible, especially when viewed alongside other historical information, is a reliable historical source.”

“Clearly, Hobby Lobby and the Greens are trying to convert children to their particular brand of Christianity,” said attorney Andrew Seidel. “There is nothing scholarly, fair or balanced about the curriculum.”

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Working alongside AUSCS and the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), FFRF then filed a freedom of information request to obtain documents that would show the level of the school board’s involvement in the curriculum. Following its second request, the groups received an email from McDaniel, outlining that the district had dropped its plans to offer the course.

“[T]he topic of a Bible course in the Mustang School District is no longer a discussion item nor is there a plan to provide such a course in the foreseeable future,” he wrote, according to reports. “All students who were pre-enrolled in the elective had their schedules changed to a Humanities course or they were afforded the opportunity to select another elective.”

The groups applauded the cancellation of the class in statements issued this week.

“Education officials in Mustang did the wise thing,” said Barry Lynn, an ordained minister and executive director of AUSCS. “Objective study about religion in public schools is permissible, but this curriculum was essentially an extended Sunday School lesson.”

But Green doesn’t seem to be phased by the development and is open to other districts across the country.

“We understand Mustang’s decision to withdraw the new, elective Bible course from consideration,” said course representative and editor Jerry Pattengale. “Museum of the Bible remains committed to providing an elective high school Bible curriculum and continues work on an innovative, high-tech course that will provide students and teachers with a scholarly overview of the Bible’s history, narrative and impact.”

As previously reported, Green is simultaneously working on opening a museum in Washington, D.C., which will also focus on the Bible and similar artifacts. Last October, the entrepreneur announced that he had obtained “the oldest Jewish prayer book ever found” and would add it to the D.C. collection. The Greens have over 40,000 pieces to their name, which they began collecting in 2009.

“We didn’t buy them because we’re collectors; we bought them because we wanted to tell the Bible story,” he told the Baptist Press. “The material we have to make a museum with trumps any museum that’s there [in D.C.]. Our story is the most incredible story to be told.”

Portions of the Dead Sea scrolls, a historic translation of the Psalms to Middle English, tracts from the reformer Martin Luther and a copy of John Wycliffe’s New Testament are all expected to be included.


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  • Jeffery Kinkead

    Our government controlled public schools are a terrible place for children to be.
    Public Schools Intolerant of Christians!: http://youtu.be/9zcdR-9MOWw

  • pastoredsmith

    Atheists are trying to silence Christians everywhere. They would much rather their own religion of atheism (“God neutral” zones) be enforced everywhere. I say, let’s make the atheists unhappy by bringing God back into schools! They can’t stop a real revival!

    • Ralph Spoilsport

      I say, let’s make the atheists unhappy by bringing God back into schools! They can’t stop a real revival!

      Go right ahead and try. Might be difficult, considering how few young people believe in gods.

      • pastoredsmith

        gods. Yes. Few people believe in false gods. In God? That’s another matter. The majority of people in the US believe in God, atheist.
        And, I plan to go ahead and seek God for real revival. Many people are joining in, claiming 2 Chronicles 7:14.
        Atheist, you lose. Again.

        • Ralph Spoilsport

          The majority of people in the US believe in God, atheist.

          So why do you need a “real revival”?

          Atheist, you lose. Again.

          Because YOUR side needs a “revival”?
          (Revive: regain life, consciousness, or strength.)

          I’d say the winning side isn’t the one that needs to regain life, consciousness, or strength.

          • pastoredsmith

            You again show your ignorance, atheist. You only wish to ridicule, mock and criticize that which you understand fully but wish to make everyone around you think you are ignorant of. You understand the terminology I use.
            As to the “winning side,” that is God’s side. You lose, atheist.
            I pray you accept Christ! You cannot win this debate nor any other as long as you deny God’s existence.

          • Ralph Spoilsport

            As to the “winning side,” that is God’s side. You lose, atheist.

            Yeah, that must be why Xians like yourself keep whining about how god is being pushed out of school.

          • pastoredsmith

            Whining? Atheists are master whiners. Lawsuits. Threatening letters to schools. Silencing school kids and teachers.

          • Ralph Spoilsport

            Lawsuits aren’t “whining”, they’re judicial review to see that the law is being followed. I see you don’t like obeying the law.

          • pastoredsmith

            What you “see” is never accurate. Always making it up as you go. You are the lawbreaker here. The First Amendment guarantees free speech. You are the one who picks and chooses which “laws” to abide by. The First Amendment still stands.
            As to your “whining,” your ilk whine all the time. Lawsuits are just your way of trying to force your selfishness and lawlessness on the rest of the country.
            You are slippery as an eel, atheist. Constantly changing things in your feeble effort to win an argument. It isn’t working, and makes you look really stupid.

          • Ralph Spoilsport

            You are the lawbreaker here.

            Ah, reduced to lying already.

            Filing lawsuits is quite legal, and, like I just said, it only triggers judicial review to make sure the law is being followed.

            You really don’t like obeying the law.

          • pastoredsmith

            Let’s get one thing straight, atheist. You are the liar here. You say there is no God. You know better. You are angry with Him and just want to hurt Him and others. That’s why the bullying. How can you be offended by someone you say you don’t believe in? Maybe you should sue God?
            Again, your babble makes no sense as usual.
            I really do pray you accept Christ. He is your only answer. There you can find the truth instead of lying about everything around you and trying to make your lame case.
            You’re losing again, atheist. You cannot win against the truth.

          • Ralph Spoilsport

            Let’s get one thing straight, atheist. You are the liar here.

            No, really, you’re lying. And whining.

            You say there is no God. You know better. You are angry with Him and just want to hurt Him and others.

            The usual Xian denial that atheists are really atheists. It drives you nuts to think that there really are people who don’t believe your pretend friend exists.

          • James Grimes

            Pastor Ed, you’re wasting your time with this guy. He hates God, all Christians, and especially you, for standing up for the faith.

          • pastoredsmith

            Yeah, I know. God haters and Christian haters can only see one thing….their hate. It is my prayer that other onlookers can gain some insight from the debate.

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/EyrtheFyre Regina Forbes

            All they do is tear down, they never build up!
            Case in point- last year a Colorado school had to stop giving charitable donations to children in need because atheists threatened to sue. Did the atheists replace the “objectionable” charity with a suggestion for another one? NO! So they came in un-invited and un-welcomed and tied a school’s hands so they can’t give anything to children in need! Some humanitarians they are!!
            article here: http://www.gopusa.com/news/2013/11/21/colorado-school-drops-christian-christmas-charity-on-threat-of-atheist-lawsuit/

          • James Grimes

            Well said, Regina. They are a useless group of human flesh.

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/EyrtheFyre Regina Forbes

            Thanks. I can’t help but pity them because I know when I hit rock bottom it was Christ who saved me from myself…but with God-haters it’s like they threw themselves into a deep dark pit and won’t take the step ladder being offered to them. Just heartbreaking. The worst though are the ones who try to keep others from climbing out of the pit. Like they can’t handle seeing anyone else happy and successful. It’s sociopathic!

          • James Grimes

            That’s OK though. We were warned by Our Lord that we would face opposition from those who would be judged at the Great White Throne.
            I have been active on this forum for awhile, but I can’t get past the fact that is I engage with the Atheists, I am only wasting my time. My dangerous, though, are the pseudo-Christians who condemn anyone who holds to a true faith. There are a number of these people here.
            Stand strong. The Lord has shown you what pleases Him. Have a blessed day.

  • Neiman

    America is committing moral and spiritual suicide. In the Northwest Ordinance, that document used to provide the guidelines for new states, Thomas Jefferson, no Christian he, said, “Religion, morality and knowledge being necessary to good government and
    the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall
    forever be encouraged.

    Jefferson and so many of the Founding Fathers knew that if this nation and liberty was to survive, we needed to teach religion in our public schools and they only advocated for the Christian religion as being indispensable to our security.

    Yet, our fall from God’s blessings and the beginning of our national suicide pact began with a single lie and that being Separation of Church and State. See, they believed we should not have a national Christian denomination, a State Church; but they never envisioned anything keeping the Christian faith from having a key role in all our affairs.

    The Freedom from Religion Foundation (FFRF), the Americans United for Separation of Church and State (AUSCS) and the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU); have conspired together to wage war against the Christian faith, they believe good morals have no place in our society. By many means they have even violated the first clause of the 1st Amendment, they have established a Nation/State Church, the religion of atheism; and, they have made the Christian faith into an enemy of the United States.

    All this being quite true, there is no way we will survive as a people, we are destroying America. We are less free, we enjoy no real liberty, we are all subjects of the State, it is no longer a country “of, by and for the people,” it is a nation of a dictatorship by a political ruling elite, all godless souls. Just look at Obamacare, o e of its chief architects said that the people were too stupid and that the ruling elite had to force them to do what the ruling elite thought was best for them.

    Lastly, while pastordsmith is right that we do need a great spiritual revival, a spiritual awakening, I regret to say I do not see that happening. As Revelations tell us, even as we are imploding and killing the American dream, even when God pours out His wrath, most of the world will curse God.

    • Katee Ripid

      And the atheists never bother that “There is no other god but Allah ” taught in school in the name of History never knowing that that is to confess that you don’t believe in God but Allah of the Muslims…

    • James Grimes

      Very well said. Thank you.

  • http://www.remnantofgod.org John1429dotorg

    And this is from the same state that erects a Satanic statue in the capital, has a Muslim man behead a woman at her workplace, has another man steamroll and urinate over a Ten Commandments monument…and this is a surprise?

    • Ralph Spoilsport

      And this is from the same state that erects a Satanic statue in the capital

      You’re a bit news-impaired; Satanists are suing to erect such a statue as equal treatment, since a 10 commandments monument was put up. The state can’t favor one religion.

      has a Muslim man behead a woman at her workplace

      And that’s illegal.

      has another man steamroll and urinate over a Ten Commandments monument.

      Also illegal.

      and this is a surprise?

      Not really. Teaching that the bible is true in a US public school is ALSO illegal.

      • http://www.remnantofgod.org John1429dotorg

        But teaching that a child he or she evolved from a monkey that in turn evolved from a primordal ooze is…O.K…

        I wonder sometimes…why isn’t man still evolving to this day? You would think man would have wings by now seeing its been some billions of years since evolution begin, heh?

        • Ralph Spoilsport

          But teaching that a child he or she evolved from a monkey that in turn evolved from a primordal ooze is…O.K…

          That isn’t teaching religion.

          I wonder sometimes…why isn’t man still evolving to this day?

          This is due to your ignorance of evolution.

          You would think man would have wings by now seeing its been some billions of years since evolution begin, heh?

          Again, this is due to your ignorance of evolution.

          • http://www.remnantofgod.org John1429dotorg

            Well please enlighten me…because it takes FAITH to believe in evolution…

            Educate me please… 🙂

          • Ralph Spoilsport

            because it takes FAITH to believe in evolution…

            No, it doesn’t.

            Educate me please… 🙂

            No, I’m not your tutor. If you’re too lazy to learn about a subject that has hundreds of thousands of pages free on the web, I’m not going to waste time with you. I WILL tell people when they’re babbling nonsense about evolution, though.

          • http://www.remnantofgod.org John1429dotorg

            Wow…talk about putting your foot in your own mouth…. 🙂

          • Ralph Spoilsport

            No, if you’re too lazy to educate yourself, I’m not going to do it for you. Seriously. You have no problem talking about evolution out of total ignorance, but you deliberately won’t learn about it. You’re like someone who thinks gravity is a religion asking what holds the moon up.

          • http://www.remnantofgod.org John1429dotorg

            I don’t have to learn it…I was taught it in school. So you are preaching to the choir. But the same rule can imply with you. I was taught evolution and I also opened a Bible, so I can look at both sides and judge accordingly.

          • Ralph Spoilsport

            I don’t have to learn it…I was taught it in school.

            You obviously didn’t understand it when you make idiotic statements like “You would think man would have wings by now seeing its been some billions of years since evolution begin, heh?”

            That shows you don’t understand evolution at all.

          • http://www.remnantofgod.org John1429dotorg

            Oh I did understand it…I understood clearly that it was nonsense and pure fiction. But I am sure you feel the same way about Creation…:-)

          • Ralph Spoilsport

            Oh I did understand it…I understood clearly that it was nonsense and pure fiction.

            No, you really didn’t. Evolution has been, and continues to be, observed. Speciation has been observed. You’re like someone denying the moon landing.

          • http://www.remnantofgod.org John1429dotorg

            🙂

  • Demopublicrat

    Whacking branches, teaching Christianity is the job of the churches. Government schools should be abolished, not changed.

    • pastoredsmith

      Agreed. Vouchers for private schools. Get the government and atheists out of education. They all screw it up.

      • Magister_militum_praesentalis

        Hypothetically speaking, if this were to happen, who would you have appointed to teach once the government and atheists are out of the picture?

        • pastoredsmith

          Vouchers would answer that question. Private schools would hire teachers. Those schools that twist and distort history or some other bad worldview is presented to students habitually will not be attended long term. We the people would have a voice in education at last.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            Okay, thank you. Who would define what it is to “twist and distort history,” and how would that be defined, exactly?

          • pastoredsmith

            May I suggest you research school textbook revisionists who remove historical events, change the historical accounts of such things as Columbus discovering America, Thomas Edison’s inventions, the influence of Christianity on early American development, etc. History is history. For better or worse. It should never be edited or distorted by those who wish to “remold” society in the manner it is being now.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            That I asked these questions of you does not mean that I have not researched textbooks and seen the things you describe. Will you please address my specific questions? Thanks.

          • pastoredsmith

            I believe I did respond to your specific questions. I do not plan to do an expose on history revisionism here.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            Who specifically would define what the abuses of history are and who (administratively speaking) would implement the voucher system that you mentioned?

          • pastoredsmith

            The answer to this and any other questions you might have as to “my plan” comes straight from the unaltered history books of the Obama Administration, specifically the former House leader, Nancy Pelosi, and I quote with adaptations: “You will have to pass the bill to know what’s in it.”

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            But you did not say who would be in charge of implementing the task of rooting out abuses of history from the textbook and finding suitable replacements.

          • pastoredsmith

            Would it make you happy if I laid out an entire plan? You consider yourself a soldier of sorts as indicated by your handle. Why don’t you answer the question?

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            I don’t understand why you are getting so defensive. The comments section is for discussion, after all.

  • jmichael39

    Again, I ask, when did the Constitution change? For the first 175+ years of this country’s history, the Establishment Clause was never interpreted to mean that God and the Bible should be kept out of our government and our government schools. Now, by some unknown force, the Constitution’s Establishment Clause means just the opposite. Someone tell me why. And do NOT bring up the idea of 14th Amendment’s incorporation of the Bill of Rights to the states and the fact that before that the states ran the school system and could inject God into it. Because the Establishment Clause didn’t force God out of any other area of the federal government…why does it somehow now do that?

    • what_would_ghengis_do

      Because people who don’t understand “separation of church and state” – a great many of them teachers or administrators in the public schools- appoint themselves to apply it and by their faulty interpretation violate the free exercise rights of students and others. The solution- to the extent that there is one- is to repeatedly sue the school districts until it is so expensive to have a self-appointed church-state “enforcer” that they either educate these people or require them to refer a perceived violation to someone who understands the law.

    • thoughtsfromflorida

      Such actions were not challenged until recently. That doesn’t mean that it was ever constitutional to do, it simply means that no one challenged it being done.

      • jmichael39

        While your comment is mostly true, I think there are some significant other aspects that require consideration.

        I would enjoy hearing your views on the following link:

        http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/current-events/what-freedom-of-religion

        • thoughtsfromflorida

          I found the piece interesting. The conclusions contain a lot of “ifs” to arrive at their reasoning.

          I think the other thing that must be taken into consideration is how the nation has changed regarding diversity of religious belief. Given the near blanket acceptance of Christianity at the time of the nation’s founding, it was easy to come to consensus as to the role religion would play. As the nation has grown more diverse, we see that different perspectives are coming into play.

          It’s relatively easy to embrace the concept of freedom of religion when everyone is on the same page regarding religion. It becomes more challenging as the population becomes more diverse.

          Regarding public schools, for the government to take money that is provided by all taxpayers, of all faiths as well as no faith, and then use that money to promote a single religion, I see as a violation of the government’s role. It is not the job of the government to promote a certain religion. It is the job of the government to ensure that laws are not passed which prohibit citizens from expressing their religious beliefs. It is also the job of the government to ensure that the way people express their religious beliefs does not violate the rights of other citizens.

          • jmichael39

            The problem is that one religion IS exclusively promoted by our schools….the religion of Secular Humanism. The religion that rejects any theistic view of any thing. That is as much a religion as any. Courts have said so. They even argue before the courts to BE treated as a religion. They even have their own versions of churches.

    • James Grimes

      It never changed. A group of disgruntled people have convinced liberal judicial appointees to twist the document to suit their evil desires.

  • Frank

    Only a fool says there is no God. There is only One God. For anyone in a Government position to be silent about Jesus, to be bullied away from living out loud faith in Jesus as revealed in the bible while exercising their government duties, being placed there by God, is to deny Jesus, to be lukewarm. A nation that walks away from God is doomed. Woe to those professing to be believers in Jesus but who deny Him by their actions of exercising their government decisions. Judgement starts in the House of God! Wake up church! Jesus is coming soon.

  • Margaret Keith Day

    I’m so sad to read this…my dad was from Oklahoma City & I still have relatives there!! Please God, help this city & stop the atheists from stopping Christianity!! We need you Lord more than ever now that we are in the end times!!!

    • Ralph Spoilsport

      Please God, help this city & stop the atheists from stopping Christianity!!

      How is Christianity stopped by a public school NOT using a course teaching that the bible is true?

      Is this same school stopping Judaism by NOT using a course teaching that the torah is true?

      Is this same school stopping Islam by NOT using a course teaching that the koran is true?

      Is this same school stopping Hinduism by NOT using a course teaching that the vedas are true?

  • James Grimes

    The Useless are afraid of anything Christianity. They will fight it tooth and nail. One thing they will not do, however, is to take on Islam. Pretty hypocritical, isn’t it?

    • pastoredsmith

      It’s very hypocritical, James. Atheists are cowards who hide behind lawsuits against school children and teachers. Forcing people to be gagged when it comes to Christ. Maybe those atheists who want our freedoms to be stripped should move to Iran. I hear they treat atheists differently than we do.

      • Ralph Spoilsport

        How do atheists “hide behind lawsuits”? Lawsuits trigger judicial review to make sure the law is being followed. I supposed you’d prefer illegal methods, then?

        • pastoredsmith

          You answer that. It is your ilk at FFRF that hides behind the lawsuits. You are the people suing school kids and teachers. These useless lawsuits are frivolous and bullying.
          Again, you babble nonsense, especially the accusation, as usual.

          • Ralph Spoilsport

            It is your ilk at FFRF that hides behind the lawsuits.

            Filing lawsuits isn’t “hiding”, it has actions reviews for legality. You don’t like public schools obeying the law, I guess.

            You are the people suing school kids and teachers.

            No, it’s generally the school administration, and sometimes individual teachers for violating students’ rights.

            These useless lawsuits are frivolous and bullying.

            Frivolous lawsuits don’t win. The FFRF has a long list of lawsuits they have won.

          • pastoredsmith

            “Filing lawsuits isn’t “hiding”, it has actions
            reviews for legality. You don’t like public schools obeying the law, I guess.”

            Says the atheist who has no reason to be moral or tell the truth. Says the atheist who makes up things as he goes along rather than accept absolute truth. Says the name caller who skirts real issues and creates smaller ones calling them “victories.” Get a life atheist. You sound really stupid.

            “No, it’s generally the school administration, and sometimes individual teachers for violating students’ rights.”

            Yes, you intimidate students and teachers. Do you really think that your frivolous lawsuits only attack schools? Have no effect on students? Silence nobody? Get your head out of the sand and join the human race.

            “Frivolous lawsuits don’t win. The FFRF has a long list of lawsuits they have won.”

            A short list. And, a long list of lawsuits they’ve lost. FFRF are bullies, as you are. You only wish to silence Christians. You are cowards. Attack Christian’s rights. Attack school kids. But, you won’t touch Muslims. You guys really should spend some time in Iran. I hear they treat atheists differently than here.

          • Ralph Spoilsport

            Says the atheist who has no reason to be moral or tell the truth.

            Ah, again you are reduced to fallacious ad hominems.

          • pastoredsmith

            Blah blah blah. The atheist with no morals makes it up as he goes because he has nothing of value to say. You can only repeat your rhetoric so many times before the world sees through his thinly veiled wall of lies.

          • Ralph Spoilsport

            The atheist with no morals makes it up as he goes because he has nothing of value to say.

            Ad hominem.

          • pastoredsmith

            Blah blah blah. The atheist with no morals makes it up as he goes because he has nothing of value to say. You can only repeat your rhetoric so many times before the world sees through his thinly veiled wall of lies.

          • Ralph Spoilsport

            You can only repeat your rhetoric

            Says the guy who just copied and pasted his previous response.

          • pastoredsmith

            It was important and you blew it off. Repeating is a standard way to make a point. Get some morals and we’ll talk.

          • Ralph Spoilsport

            It was important and you blew it off.

            No, ad hominems are fallacies. All fallacies are invalid.

          • pastoredsmith

            You are the fallacy here. Atheists are all fallacies and therefore invalid.
            You bore me with nothing more to say.
            Good day, atheist. I pray you find Christ while you can.

          • Ralph Spoilsport

            Atheists are all fallacies and therefore invalid.

            Now your ad hominems aren’t even coherent. Is your bloodsugar out of whack?

          • pastoredsmith

            You really don’t know the meaning of “Good day, atheist!” Do you?
            You bore me. I’m through with your babbling nonsense.

          • Ralph Spoilsport

            You really don’t know the meaning of “Good day, atheist!” Do you?

            Sure; you’re trying to limit my free speech.

  • [email protected]

    Dear Seperation of Church and State,

    Funny. The idea of separation of church and state was first proposed by America’s first Baptist minister- Roger Williams. The idea was that the state was seperated from the church and that the government had no right to lay their authority in it, not that the church couldn’t be active in the state. The fact that the corrupt Kings of England could exercise their power in the church disgusted Williams, so he moved to America and underwent persecution for his ideals and went to the sewer of New England- Rhode Island. The church does not run the government because trouble was sure to follow- look at the Catholics in the Middle Ages, the Great Schism and all the deep history of the Church. But while we don’t run the government we have a God given right to partake of it. The government has absolutely no authority over the church, man made institutions can’t and won’t stop the people of God. I’m 15 years old and it sometimes seems to me that I have a better understanding of this country and the accuracy of God’s Word than the other grown educated morons with a doctoral degree in God knows what.

    Sincerely,
    A Frustrated 15 Year Old Texas Boy.

    • Ralph Spoilsport

      What does any of what you’ve written have to do with a public school not using a course that teaches that the bible is true?

      • [email protected]

        “But the Madison, Wisconsin-based Freedom from Religion Foundation (FFRF) and the Washington, D.C.-based Americans United for Separation of Church and State (AUSCS) took issue with the course, stating that it was unconstitutional.

        “The materials show a clear Christian bias, treat the Bible as historically accurate and true in all respects and make theological claims,” FFRF wrote to the district earlier this year.
        It asserted that the course was “bias” because it cited God’s pleasant attributes, such as “faithful and good,” “gracious and compassionate,” “ever-present help in times of trouble” and “righteous judge,” but not those that the organization deemed unpleasant. FFRF also disliked a sentence in the curriculum that read, “[W]e can conclude that the Bible, especially when viewed alongside other historical information, is a reliable historical source.”

        It had to do with simply acknowledging this is not a matter of seperation of church and state. This school board has caved in to the demands of these nobodies. Rights don’t go to people who speak the loudest, they go to those obligated to them and the majority that voices its support.

        • Ralph Spoilsport

          It had to do with simply acknowledging this is not a matter of seperation of church and state.

          Yes, it is. A public school can’t teach that the bible is true.
          “The materials show a clear Christian bias, treat the Bible as historically accurate and true…”

          This school board has caved in to the demands of these nobodies.

          Go ahead and fund a losing lawsuit.

          • [email protected]

            In no way is allowing a course to teach religious ideals- and in this case Biblical ideals, allowing the church power to rule the state via the school. It simply is not a matter of seperation of church and state because of the ideal of separation of church and state is completely inapplicable in this instance because of its origin and definition. Those who wish to take the course know good and well what they sign up. I will actually take a Bible as Literature course next year at my public high school.

          • Ralph Spoilsport

            In no way is allowing a course to teach religious ideals- and in this case Biblical ideals, allowing the church power to rule the state via the school.

            Well, the school board disagrees, so you’re out of luck. You can try to convince a public school to throw away money defending a course that teaches the bible is true, but you’ll still lose in the end.

            I will actually take a Bible as Literature course next year at my public high school.

            Notice it isn’t a “bible is true” course. That’s why the Hobby Lobby-designed course was dropped.

          • [email protected]

            “Green had introduced the course to the school board last fall, explaining to those present that he would like to offer an introductory course on “the Old and New Testament’s impact on society.”

            This is a cultural and religion awareness class, much like the other religion classes taught in public schools in central Europe, Germany in particular has several religion classes offered in its public schools. Anyways, the class is not a “The Bible is true” class. This class was created to talk about it’s contribution to society. And by the way, the Bible is true and historically accurate. If not for the Bible we would have no idea of the destruction of Nineveh as recorded in Nahum, we would not know of the Egyptian rule of the Jewish people. We would have limited insight into the state of the early church and much much more. God didn’t make a movie or compose a song, but He wrote a book- and a perfect one!- so that we may know Him. But that maybe a little hard to believe if you don’t actually believe in Him, and I saw another commenter call you an atheist so I’ll assume my reasoning seems somewhat absurd to you.

          • Ralph Spoilsport

            This is a cultural and religion awareness class

            It pretends to be that, but I’ve seen some of it, and it tries to present biblical miracles as historical events. Public schools can’t do that.

          • [email protected]

            You’ve seen it?! Enlighten me. Sources? When do you see it taught? Where was it taught? Have you any bad personal experiences with religious and cultural awareness classes?

          • Ralph Spoilsport

            Sources?

            http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2014/04/25/the-first-7-problems-with-the-hobby-lobby-bible-curriculum/

            When do you see it taught? Where was it taught?

            Nowhere; the only public school system considering it dropped it. The above is from part of the proposed curriculum.

          • [email protected]

            “PART of the… curriculum”

            That’s key right there. I’ll make a conclusion when I read through it myself. I read the article, not a fan of Patheos, but while I don’t see a problem with the curriculum, I understand that some editing may be in place to meet criteria.

          • Ralph Spoilsport

            “PART of the… curriculum”

            Yes. A course that’s only a little bit unconstitutional is still unconstitutional.

            but while I don’t see a problem with the curriculum

            I do. “How do we know that the bible’s historical narratives are reliable?”

            It says Noah’s arc is “yet to be discovered”.

          • pastoredsmith

            We are funding challenges to your lawsuits, atheist. Very tired of being bullied by the likes of you and FFRF. And, we’re winning. Get used to it atheist.

          • Ralph Spoilsport

            We are funding challenges to your lawsuits, atheist. Very tired of being bullied by the likes of you and FFRF. And, we’re winning.

            Cites?

        • James Grimes

          School administrators, for the most part, are Liberal. It doesn’t take much for them to cave in.

  • carolyn

    What about the teaching of Muslim beliefs? And the prayer of the Muslum in the House, where is the seperation of church and State In that? This is not right and Godwill take care if it!

    • Ralph Spoilsport

      What about the teaching of Muslim beliefs?

      That’s also illegal in US public schools.

      And the prayer of the Muslum in the House, where is the seperation of church and State In that?

      What are you talking about? If you’re under the delusion that Obama is a Muslim, your whining still doesn’t make any sense, since the president can pray in the white house — it’s his residence. Why do you hate religious freedom?

      • pastoredsmith

        You really don’t understand “Freedom OF Religion,” do you, atheist? And, it is atheists who whine.
        Bullies, all of you.

        • Ralph Spoilsport

          You really don’t understand “Freedom OF Religion,” do you, atheist?

          I understand it much better than you. You want public schools to teach that the bible is true.

  • Mike Bingham

    The article stated that the bible course was an attempt to teach kids there kind of Christianity and implied that it not a fair and balanced point of view. Let me point out the schools and government point of view is no God at all especially not the God of the Bible and that is unfair not to teach people about the God of the Bible. Since the ACLU and FFRF both are sue happy the school did not want to challenge them in court. So I guess the Christians will start suing people just so we can be heard. This is something that Christians have been reluctant to do.

    • http://www.OpenAirSeattle.blogspot.com/ OpenAirSeattle

      I think more Christians in the schools should STAND UP and preach and teach the Bible in the school like this kid… http://q13fox.com/2014/11/19/high-school-student-ive-been-suspended-3-times-for-preaching-handing-out-bible-tracts/

      They have the Constitutional right if they would just be brave enough to actually preach that which they are convicted and accused of. That would stop the mouth f the lion.

      • http://www.OpenAirSeattle.blogspot.com/ OpenAirSeattle
      • Magister_militum_praesentalis

        Whose interpretation of the Bible should they preach and teach?

        • http://www.OpenAirSeattle.blogspot.com/ OpenAirSeattle

          How about the Gospel of the Kingdom! There is only one.

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            There are different interpretations of that, now, aren’t there?

          • http://www.OpenAirSeattle.blogspot.com/ OpenAirSeattle

            How about the Gospel of the Kingdom Jesus Christ preached?

        • http://www.OpenAirSeattle.blogspot.com/ OpenAirSeattle

          How about God’s?

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            Although yours is most likely a rhetorical question, I would then ask if God delivers the unmitigated, absolutely correct interpretation to you every time you read Scripture?

          • http://www.OpenAirSeattle.blogspot.com/ OpenAirSeattle

            I have a very firm grasp of the holy scriptures. I know the Gospel and I know who I am in Christ. Do you?

          • Magister_militum_praesentalis

            That does not answer my question.

    • Ralph Spoilsport

      Let me point out the schools and government point of view is no God at all especially not the God of the Bible

      What color is the sky in your world?

      • Mike Bingham

        That is my point exactly. Yet they are willing to let Allah in That is not fair at all. And that is why i suggest the Christians may have to start suing the school districts then maybe they think twice before saying no to us. The other thing that i recommend is that Christians pul there kids out of public school like yesterday, school will do quite a bit to keep from losing students.

        • Ralph Spoilsport

          That is my point exactly. Yet they are willing to let Allah in That is not fair at all.

          Well, since this course was dropped because it taught that the bible was true, you need to find a US public school that teaches that the koran is true. I don’t think you can.

          And that is why i suggest the Christians may have to start suing the school districts then maybe they think twice before saying no to us.

          You don’t know the US legal system at all. On what grounds would you possibly sue over a public school that decided against using a course? Who would have standing?

          The other thing that i recommend is that Christians pul there kids out of public school like yesterday, school will do quite a bit to keep from losing students.

          Go right ahead.

  • Marilyn

    Through whom is Barry Lynn ordained and what churches has he served?

  • James Grimes

    Christian brothers and sisters, please disregard the evil opinions of Atheists and pseudo – Christians on this site. Their opinions are meaningless. Thanks.

  • BarkingDawg

    Wow, I’m surprised. The school board listened to their lawyers for once.