Atheists from ‘Better News Club’ Launch Program to Counter Christian ‘Good News Club’

Youth Prayer pdCHURCHVILLE, N.Y. — In response to a Christian Good News Club held after school at an elementary school in New York, professing atheists from the “Better News Club” have launched a similar program to counter the gospel offering.

The Good News Club, affiliated with Child Evangelism Fellowship (CEF), is offered as an after school program at Fairbanks Elementary School in Churchville. Parents grant permission for their children to attend the club, which teaches lessons from the Bible using music, games and other activities.

“Our ministry is dedicated to helping children in 150 countries around the world to know God and learn from the Bible,” a permission slip from the organization reads.

However, when local atheists found out about the program, they decided to launch an after school group of their own for children. The Better News Club is now offering the program Young Skeptics to elementary school students, likewise with the permission of parents.

“The organization was created first as an alternative to the Good News Club, a Christian evangelical group who enters public schools to proselytize to children and, according to their own materials, declares them all sinners in need of salvation,” the website for the group outlines.

The Better News Club states that they see the Good News Club as “a form of psychological abuse, akin to telling small children they’re flawed or evil, and must subscribe to a dogma in order to avoid eternal punishment.”

“We felt it was harmful to children and we wanted to do something about it,” Kevin Davis of the Atheist Community of Rochester told the Democrat and Chronicle.

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According to the permission slip for the Young Skeptics, the program serves as “an educational club dedicated to helping our kids find answers themselves, through critical thinking and problem solving.” Organizers state that the club isn’t necessarily an atheist program, but rather one that generally teaches children from a secular standpoint to question and analyze out of their own human abilities.

As previously reported, a summer camp hosted by Child Evangelism Fellowship in Portland, Oregon likewise came under fire last summer for teaching children that each person is a sinner in need of the Savior. Those who opposed the group asserted that CEF does not present “Jesus loves you” mainstream Christianity, but is rather “hardcore evangelical fundamental.”

“Before the Portland public schools allow ‘The Good News Club’ to use school facilities or to promote their activities on campus it would seem appropriate to allow mental health professionals to further investigate the activities of this group,” wrote Chuck Currie of the United Church of Christ in a blog post about the matter.

But CEF said that it was not teaching anything outside of the basic and fundamental truths of the gospel—and that mankind must understand the bad news to know why the good news is so good.

“Listen, the message of the gospel, the teaching of the core Christian tenets of the Christian faith that have been taught for 2,000 years in the Bible is what we’re teaching,” CEF Vice President of Ministries Moises Esteves told local television station KOIN. “There’s nothing new here.”


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  • James Grimes

    The Useless are a pathetic group of human flesh. They see something good going on that is sponsored by Christians and then they want to get involved with their trash. Let no one be fooled by these losers: they are out to eliminate Christianity.

    • krewl

      My my…. How very christ-like of you.

    • Dan Courtney

      James – I think you’re a wonderful person that unfortunately has said some ugly things. I know the couple that runs the local GNC. They are a nice couple who even invited me over for pizza at their home last year. We didn’t agree on just about anything to do with the nature of reality, but we did agree that we can love and respect each other as human beings. Nobody wants to intentionally hurt children, but that’s exactly what’s happening in many of these GNC’s. If my group can help kids feel good about themselves and their ability to control their own future, then I’m doing a good thing…. even if the professionals are completely wrong about the psychological abuse dispensed by the GNC.

      • James Grimes

        Dan, I don’t buy into your message. That’s me. My concern is that when you see a Christian endeavor, you feel that you have to go against it. Leave it alone. Do “your thing” separately and don’t go after Christian clubs.

        • krewl

          It’s sad that you feel that teaching children to use their minds is an attack on Christianity. If your god is so all powerful, wouldn’t teaching them to think freely just lead them to “him” anyway?

          • James Grimes

            I’m not interested in your Atheist junk.

          • krewl

            You mean logic? That’s not “atheist junk.” It’s something that every species on the planet has, aside from a sect of human who have chosen to create their own reality.

          • James Grimes

            You offer nothing but junk. Please don’t bother me again.

          • krewl

            How does it feel to be an unenlightened plebeian? Screaming about your fears, with your eyes closed tightly and your fingers in your ears? I’d rather spend forever in hell that be an ignorant slave to a pretend god. Hail Satan.

          • William Austin Long

            You make a claim to logic and reason, But on what basis can you account for the existence of such things?

        • Dan Courtney

          James – I own a home just a block from four churches. But you won’t see me there telling people they’re wrong, because I respect their right to believe and worship what they want. Whether you believe it or not, I don’t have a problem with the fact that the GNC is a Christian club; what I have problem with is harming children. I suspect that’s something we can agree on.

          • James Grimes

            Please do not assume anything.

          • Dan Courtney

            You think it’s good to hurt children!? Unless you’re a psychopath, I don’t think you really mean that.

  • Gary

    Better News? Oh please. What is good news about your existence having no meaning, your life having no purpose, and when your short life is over, you cease to exist? Doesn’t sound good to me?

    • krewl

      How sad and pathetic your life must be if the only thing that gives it meaning is your archaic belief system and fear of a god that will set you on fire for eternity if you upset him.

      • Oboehner

        How sad that because you know the truth deep down inside you must continue to rail against it in a pathetic attempt to feel better.

        • krewl

          I do know the truth. I live a happy and free life that I am completely in control of. If you took the time to think for yourself, you would see that your life has no meaning, except to serve a man-made master and support an establishment of liars who rely on you for a paycheck. I don’t have to argue with you, or try to push the truth on you. You’ll see for yourself, the moment you die, when nothing happens at all. Your entire life has been a waste.

          • Fundisi

            If we die and you are right, we will never know we were wrong, will we? On the other hand, if you are wrong, instantly on your soul/spirit leaving your body at death, you will awake in utter darkness, al alone and screaming in torment. A high price to pay for your raging ego and self deification.

          • krewl

            Your all loving god would torment me in total darkness forever, just for not believing in him? That seems a bit hypocritical.

          • Fundisi

            The doctor says, “Krewl, you have a terrible cancer and will die unless you admit you have this cancer and take the treatment I prescribe.” If you refuse to admit you have cancer and refuse treatment and suffer and die, who is to blame? God says, “Krewl, you have a moral and spiritual cancer of sin, if you refuse to admit you have that moral/spiritual cancer and accept my prescription for your healing and to save your life, you will die.” If you refuse, who is to blame you that serving your own ego refuse or God Who offered you healing and eternal life?

            If you are convicted of murder and are sentenced to death and the Governor offers you a pardon, if you refuse that pardon and are executed, who is to blame for your death?

          • krewl

            Really? When has your god said this to me? I’ve never heard the voice of your god, only his slaves.

          • Gary

            God is just. His justice demands that he give you what you deserve. And He decides what you deserve. Your opinion about what you deserve does not matter.

          • Oboehner

            If are so happy then why must you constantly try and prove it? Why not leave those who are happy with what they believe alone. Like I said, how sad that because you know the truth deep down inside you must continue to rail against it to make yourself feel better.

          • Gary

            Your entire life has been the waste. And when it is over, you are going to be very surprised by what happens. Hint: you will not cease to exist.

          • John Mark IB

            Dear Gary, nice one straight up!! yeah isn’t it ironic though? that all men on the planet obviously do realize the fact that death does not cease life, that eternity is a fact just can’t see the other side with physical eyes!! but we do know why (that His law is written on all men’s hearts, so they are without excuse, but also that fact that eternity is as well, so we know that death is not natural, the law of sin and death we live under the fall and the curse it’s just plain death all over groaning for the release day! it is utterly painful, thus we cry at death of lost loved ones, and loved ones in general, why? because GOD has preprogrammed it into us our make up body mind spirit, or heart soul spirit) even the hindus and Buddhists and all the pagan religions even they believe in the eternal soul albeit in the wrong sense, gee I guess I’m a little behind here haha oh well hopefully you’ll get a good laugh at my late replies, may GOD bless you with love joy and peace always and in Jesus name amen!! have a blessed day and week, see http://faithsaves.net

          • Jason Means

            Um, so will yours? And I’m sorry you choose believe that. God’s message to me is not be angry you choose to believe, but rather prey for you guys regardless.

          • krewl

            Prey is exactly what Christians do. You spread lies to the less fortunate, justify slavery by brainwashing the weak, and sell people the possibility of salvation and a dream vacation at death. You’r beliefs are nothing more than a scratch off lottery ticket.

          • Jason Means

            I’m happy I’m cashing in a winner. To answer your question, the reason you haven’t heard God ask you is because you choose not to seek him and listen. but instead sought out the doctrine of an atheist who has convinced you that God doesn’t exist. In all ways you are treating God’s followers with the exact same disrespect that you believe we are treating you which is just as damning. The difference between us is that we choose ( through the teachings of God, Jesus, and the Bible) to have a forgiving, loving heart to those who choose to hurt. We don’t go looking for trouble, but instead pray for strength to endure through the troubling times and consent attacks for what we believe in. That’s why it is proven that Christians are the most persecuted people in history and why is was foretold in the bible. I am a child of God. I can claim that because I have suffered and made the wrong choices which led me down a very dark path, and God has led me to salvation. I sought him and talk to him and he has responded. I looked for answers and he has given them to me. I might not like and understand it, but I accept them and it has ultimately made my life better, If you don’t get that, I’m sorry and I pray that you will one day hear that knocking on your heart.

          • Chuck Cummings

            “I live a happy and free life that I am completely in control of. ”

            I can tell how happy and free you are by your posts. My question is when have you planned your death when “You’ll see for yourself, the moment you die, when nothing happens at all.” What an absurd statement!

      • Gary

        God’s existence explains where I came from, why I am here, and where I am going. You have nothing that explains any of that. All you have is questions you have no answer for. So, you have to resort to making things up in order to try to make life rational, and you still fail.

        • krewl

          You’re absolutely right. God’s existence would explain all that. However, there is nothing that indicates any existence of God.

          • Gary

            Rational people disagree with you.

          • krewl

            How so? I’m all ears. I’d love to see what evidence you have for an existence of god. What more do you have than a hunch and a list of things you are unable to explain?

          • Gary

            The universe is evidence of God’s existence. The universe did not create itself, and it did not come into existence without being caused (chance).

          • Jason Means

            As well as the bible which existed way before Newton and Hawking. Which, by the way, was written over the course of thousands of years by several different authors who didn’t even know each other and yet be so in sync with each other and the same overall theme over every book being ” Believe and follow me and be saved.” A book I read and believe in every day. One book that billions of people since the beginning of time, chose to believe in. That’s my proof.

          • freespeechfan

            That’s called circular logic. The bible proves god who proves the bible…The fact is you have no facts. Only faith. Good for you if that floats your boat, but do not pretend you have anything factual to stand on. You have only faith in one belief system out of thousands throughout history.

          • Vito Zabala Halasan

            i wondering why you always mentioned “God ” if there’s no God??? seems you are doubting and hesitating yourself. pushing all the christian that theres no God. Dont read the Bible or any religious reading book. Just observe science and living things..Why all this things has different formation or attitudes or any. Look at the Earth, why it tilts 23.5 and theres’ a moon..what purpose of this…ARE ALL THOSE RESULT OF BIG BANG?..or COINCEDENCES…ARE ALL ORIGINALLY FROM ONE BACTERIA?…I THINK ITS NOT…

          • TheBBP

            It looks like you are seeking to be totally honest. I pray that you find Him.

        • Jason Means

          Hence the phrases “THEORY of evaluation” and “The big bang THEORY” and “The OPINION of one physician in one interview”. Which, by the way, came thousands of years after the existence of God. Praise his holy name of Jesus!

        • Alli Hogan

          Amen, Gary!

        • John Mark IB

          Dear Gary, just simply cut to the chase and ask them ok so no GOD right? let them go ahead and explain how life comes form non life which is anti scienctific as proven per I believe it’s Pasteur? see here

          http://www.icr.org/fb/Pasteur/

          and also how about this one very simple cuts through the chase and straight to the point let them answer this if truth exists is there absolute truth and the simple answer is of course because there are certain immutable laws that have been set in motion that if one of them fails then it won’t work, we know this but they can’t answer it and will run from it!! keep up the great work don’t let them suck you in just to argue for arguments sake or to be spiteful and harass, hope you can use and enjoy these sites sorry to be over the top with tons at once

          http://thatsafacttv.com/

          hey if you use the icr search function you can get just about any help on any subject ok it’s pretty awesome and these guys are top notch Biblical !! type in the flowing and click enter
          absolute truth
          http://www.icr.org/scientific-knowledge

          http://www.icr.org/creation-physical

          or even better see the resources articles tons of treasures here !!! May GOD bless you with love joy and peace always in Jesus name amen

          also for your friends and to use for all people to spread the seeds of salvation great stuff here

          http://faithsaves.net

          http://www.pillarandground.org/home/?page_id=36

          http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com

          http://www.discoverthebible.org/

          see Exegeting The Bible CIA pts 1 – 4
          http://bbc-cromwell.org/sermons2014.shtml

          see Revelation and series on How to have a believer’s view in a fallen world

          http://bbc-cromwell.org/sundayschool2014.shtml

          http://bbc-cromwell.org/materials.shtml

          http://bbc-cromwell.org/articles.shtml

          ok sorry but in your spare reading time you’ll have lot’s haha one more if you’re really interested see the syllabi click on the individual syllabi and read the great solid deep theological “food” teachings

          http://bbc-cromwell.org/seminary_syllabi.shtml

          • freespeechfan

            We don’t have to prove the non-existence of god anymore than we have to prove the non-existence of unicorns. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The burden is on you, believers.

      • dawnrosanne

        Hey Krewl, how come if you hate our God and our archaic belief system so much are you reading articles on Christian News? Is it because you like to spew your anger and hatred and argue with Christians? Have you nothing better to do with your time? Get a life dude!

        • krewl

          Anger and hatred? How is teaching children, and protecting them from systematic brainwashing considered anger or hatred?

          • jmichael39

            Are you still here, Krewl? I thought you refused to show us just how smart you are by refusing to agree to debate me. What are you still doing here? You’re done on this site, little man. Put up or get lost.

          • Oboehner

            Better toss evolution from the schools then.

          • Homer for God

            No it’s teaching them to believe in something and that thier life has meaning

        • John Mark IB

          awesome just gotta love it!! ha ha (with no offense ok just trying to be Biblical!) when a believing godly woman let’s em have it with the truth!! you go girl haha and here’s some good stff to keep you sharp and maybe just pass on to all you can at least for the salvation pages etc., may GOD bless you and yours with love joy and peace always in Jesus name amen! let’s just pray for them and give them the bottom line ask them the simple question and this will cut to the less arguing/arguments chase and do it like our LORD did and would ask them “what will you do with Jesus?” or what will you do (as Pontius Pilate was asked) with The Man Christ Jesus? and what is truth does absolute truth exist absolutely? then wait and see what their answer is and we can try to help them to the True Light of Jesus!! amen! beware this guys just very negative and seems to enjoy just trying to get people’s goad or arguing just for argument’s sake see other comments by same, I prefer to just leave my views hope they read it and hope they get the truth but I commend you as well for your courage and defending the faith head on!! maybe I’m just a big chicken and afraid of the arguing?? after all my wife always wins anyways so !! ha ha !:):)

          but by all means give them the solid hope here in the few sites below, and enjoy ha ha! 🙂 you and Mary from this post or on here too in places rock I love it!! thanks be to GOD for the women her that do as good a job and actually better at fighting and standing for the truth amen sister!!

          salvation and free articles and college courses and free Bible study solid Biblical

          http://faithsaves.net

          salvation message very strong

          http://www.pillarandground.org/home/?page_id=36

          good stuff here for thought

          http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com

          http://faithsaves.net/bible-studies/
          http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Trivia-Questions/
          sermons from guys who study and know the original languages from Hebrew Greek Aramaic etc.,

          hey click on the syllabi and enjoy the great solid teaching from Dr. Strouse as well as his series on Revelation from 2014 and the series on how to have a believer’s view in a fallen world dealing with Ecclesiastes very good stuff

          http://bbc-cromwell.org/seminary_syllabi.shtml

          how to have a believer’s view in a fallen world here

          http://bbc-cromwell.org/sundayschool2014.shtml

          see Exegeting the bible CIA 4 parts here

          http://bbc-cromwell.org/sermons2014.shtml

          and great teaching fro lectures here

          http://bbc-cromwell.org/lectures.shtml

          enjoy sorry to overwhelm you with too much at once 🙂
          I hope you’ll pass them on and enjoy even if you don’t really agree but the very least the first 3 on salvation etc., send on

      • jmichael39

        You don’t even know the Bible’s message…no wonder why you’re so incapable of engaging in a debate about its content.

        • krewl

          I have read the bible. It’s a work of fiction. A self help book for the feeble minded. There is nothing to debate about its content.

          • jmichael39

            ZZZzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzz…you’re getting boring, krewl. Put up or shut up.

      • John_33

        Quite the opposite, krewl. Christianity teaches that we can be forgiven of all our sins and head towards a life of eternity with God in peace because of what Christ has done for us. That is indeed very good news.

      • http://www.remnantofgod.org/ John1429dotorg

        And that is the lie that you have been sold to those who preach God and a hateful tyrant that enjoys the screams of billions of souls in and eternal “punishing”

    • Alli Hogan

      I know, right? Atheists just create things like these clubs, just to attack us Christians. They are not even serious about being atheist. They have nothing to believe in. They are a laughable lot.

      • Anna

        Rude.

  • Fundisi

    These people are certainly enemies of the Cross and of Christ, They are out to destroy our children and this once great country and over the coming years they will increasingly, by the power of Satan in them take dominion over this world and once they gloat in all their victories over the Christian Church, suddenly great and horrific destruction will come upon them. All we Christians can do is pray for our children for God to protect them.

    • krewl

      Teaching children to use their own minds, to think for themselves, and to use logic and reason makes these people the enemy of the cross and of christ? Do you really think that this country is in the shape it is because the church is failing to strip children of free will and free thought? The only enemy of the cross is knowledge. The more it spreads, the fewer people will deny reality and become slaves to your pretend god.

      • Fundisi

        If that was their true goal, I have no problem with Christian children using their own minds and thinking for themselves, as the Christian faith is built upon facts and reason and God wants us to exercise free will. But, that is not the case, the only goal as you have betrayed yourself, is to dissuade children from believing in God and to turn them from the Christian faith, as you folk see Christ as the enemy of your building a socialist utopia in America.

        The country is in the sad shape we are in because atheists, practical atheists, which most liberals are, have turned their backs on Natures God, our Creator, who blessed us beyond any nation in history as long as we honored Him and now He has withdrawn His Divine hand of blessing and protection because we, as a nation, have rejected Him; and, no longer fearing God, the people have become moral degenerates, engaging in moral dissipation and we are imploding, heading for the ash heaps of history.

        • krewl

          There is no such thing as a “Christian child.” Children are a blank canvas. You can either brainwash them into your cult of fear and slavery, or nature their natural curiosity and moral compass. The notion that the only way for a child to grow up moral is to instill a fear of hell is absolutely absurd.

          • Gary

            Based on what? You have no proof for anything you say.

          • Guest

            Neither do you. 😉

          • Gary

            Actually, I do.

        • Tim Raynor

          There are no “facts” in the Bible, other than geographical locations. Scientifically shown it is impossible to walk on water, raise people from the dead, raise yourself from the dead, live in the belly of a fish, witness a talking snake, turn a walking staff into a snake, nor are there any magical trees that provide knowledge or immortality. No, all the Bible shows is magic tricks, fantasy and mythology.

          And I always love the “This country is going to hell” argument, as if nobody has been saying that for centuries. Unfortunately – or fortunate for us “critical thinkers” – that the far advancements in science and technology have made much of our lives better. We have been able to cure many diseases, vast advancements in communication, health, transportation and we all live much longer life spans than we did just 100yrs ago. So, no, you’re completely wrong about the shape we are in. Just saying. 😉

          • William Austin Long

            you seem to have made the assumption that there is such a thing as truth. In your worldview how can you account for the existence of such a thing?

          • Tim Raynor

            I’ve made no assumptions, and I am not talking about truth, I’m talking about facts. Big difference being facts require evidence. 😉

          • William Austin Long

            But to assume that there is such a thing as factual evidence, Is to assume the existence of truth. And your worldview makes it impossible to account for such a thing.

          • Tim Raynor

            There is such a thing as factual evidence and is used in all cases proving just about anything. Not an assumption whatsoever.

          • jmichael39

            Hey you got something right, Tim. Now let’s discuss the facts about the Resurrection Account and you tell me the evidence doesn’t prove the resurrection of Jesus.

            I’m giving you a break here, Tim, btw. Your asinine statement that there are no facts in the bible except perhaps geographical type of facts, is so easily refuted as to be unimportant. So I’m jumping to something we Christians consider factual that is a bit more pertinent than the geography of the Middle East. The resurrection of Jesus. Let’s do this, if you’re up to it.

          • Tim Raynor

            That would be a problem to discuss because there are no facts. The Bible is not a history book, nor is it proof of anything.

          • jmichael39

            LMAO…sure it is, Tim. Many of its books are historical in nature (recordings of events). If you can produce contradictory evidence to refute the historical accounts in the Bible, please do. Of course, you never do. You’re very good at insults and unsubstantiated accusations. But you never produce a shred of evidence to support your statements (I won’t even call them arguments since you’re not really arguing, but merely dispensing hatred for something you don’t agree with).

            But I’ll make this easy for you, Tim…you want to take a shot at the historical account of the resurrection of Jesus, let’s do it. I’ll even let you start if you want. Give it a go, Tim…or maybe it’s time you go away.

          • Faithwalker

            Tim the Bible is full of history, history of creation and man. It is a book filled with historical facts based upon archeology and geology findings.

          • Tim Raynor

            Umm, no, not a history book. But hey, have fun arguing that with a historian or college history professor. Best of luck. 😉

          • William Austin Long

            So I take it you were unable to answer me question then?

          • Faithwalker

            Man is finite, but God in infinite. Arguing with man is not even an option. I pray for all that has determined in his heart there is no God. My prayers are with you 🙂

          • Tim Raynor

            There was no resurrection. Prove it happened. You’re the one making the claim it happened, so burden of proof is on you. In fact, prove anyone can raise from the dead after a few days of time. Oh, and please don’t give me the several eye witnesses crap, because you’ll need to prove the eye witnesses, too. Good luck. 😉

          • jmichael39

            LMAO

            There ARE facts, you know. And I don’t have to make a single assumption. Historical evidence and experts in history of that region, that time and of the roots Christianity are almost unanimous concerning certain known facts about the Resurrection account. And I’m not talking about just people who accept Christ…but scholars like Bart Ehrman who rejects Christianity, accept certain undeniable facts.

            1) Jesus died by Roman cruxifixiion

            2) He was buried, most likely in a private tomb (the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea)

            3) Soon afterward, the disciples were discouraged, bereaved and despondent having lost hope.

            4) Jesus’ tomb was found empty very soon after his buriel.

            5) The disciples had experiences which they believed were actual appearance of the risen Jesus.

            6) Due to these experiences, the disciples’ lives were thoroughly transformed to the point of being willing to die for this belief.

            7) The Resurrection message was the center of preaching in the earliest church.

            8) This message was especially proclaimed in Jerusalem, where Jesus died and was buried shortly before.

            9) As a result of this preaching the church was born and grew.

            10) Sunday became the primary day of worship for these people

            11) James, who had been a skeptic, was converted to the faith when he believed he saw the resurrected Jesus.

            12) A few years later, Paul became a Christian believer due to an experience he believed was an appearance of the risen Jesus.

            These are broadly accepted facts among scholars in the field. You are free to attempt to refute any one of them. Notice, however, that nowhere did I imply that it is an accepted ‘fact’ that Jesus actually rose from the dead. These are merely accepted facts surrounding the Resurrection account. Your job is to either try to best hundreds of well qualified scholars and refute some or all of these facts, or to present a theory that best explains these facts…as many of them as possible.

            Give it a shot. Remember, ALL of Christianity rests in the Resurrection of Jesus. Paul, himself, said this in I Corinthians 15:14 “And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith.” and again in I Cor. 15:17 “And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.”

            You may THINK Christians are fools for believing in what you think is a fairytale…well here’s your chance to prove it.

          • Tim Raynor

            LMAO!! There are NO facts, never have been! There is literally no scientific evidence to ever back up your resurrection delusion. Literally nothing peer reviewed showing proof of anything in the science world of reality. Your resources are no more than charlatans of magic. Spare me your weak delusional carp you think is proof. You have nothing more than an opinion based on what you believe, which is utterly nonsense.

          • jmichael39

            First of Tim…learn to freakin’ read.
            Second, figure out how to actually present an argument.
            Third, get over your moronic belief that science holds a monopoly on truth and facts. IT DOESN’T. And literally NO ONE with a brain would ever suggest it does.
            Fourth, I presented 12 broadly accepted historical facts regarding the resurrection account. You are free to try to refute those facts with any evidence you think you might have access to that would substantially provide an alternative view on any one of those 12 facts.
            Fifth I expressed NO opinion about the 12 facts. I merely presented them to you, in the same way an attorney might present facts in a court of law. I challenged YOU to present a theory that would intelligently address those 12 facts. You don’t HAVE to present a theory. I’ll be happy to present the most common theories presented by both advocates and detractors of Christianity..and you can choose the one you like best. You decide.
            But I repeat. I have NOT presented my theory on anything.

          • jmichael39

            Is that REALLY your rebuttal, Tim? Seriously?

            First, these ARE facts. If you have evidence to dispute the accuracy of any of them…present your case. Actual evidence, Tim.

            Second, you do realize that science doesn’t hold a monopoly on truth and facts, right, Tim?

            While science has indeed delivered many great gifts to humankind, the hopes atheism has for scientism replacing religion are ill-founded. First, scientism is self-refuting. The statement “we should only believe what can be scientifically proven” cannot be scientifically proven (because it is a philosophical statement), and so based on its own criteria it should be rejected.

            Additionally, it ignores other much-respected and used methods for obtaining knowledge. For example, the legal/forensic/historical method of discovering truth is used every day and is very well-respected. The legal method does not ignore testimony or facts because they are not empirically reproducible or testable. By a process of elimination and corroboration, the legal method allows history and testimony to speak for itself until a verdict is reached beyond a reasonable doubt and the balance of probability is achieved.
            Third, you can make accusations against my “resources” all you want, but unless and until you wish to provide substantive evidence to discredit them, you’re the one who appears more like a charlatan…pretending to know something about history, contextual criticism, and so on.
            Fourth, I have presented no “proof” nor have I have attempted to in my argument. I have merely presented broadly accepted general facts surrounding the Resurrection account. If, again, you have any evidence to refute these facts, present them. Otherwise, this is going to be a very very short debate and you will not end up looking very good.
            Fifth, nor have I expressed an opinion on those 12 facts. I have merely presented them. You might want to take a step back from your blinding hatred, Tim and try to actually sound sane for a second. The 12 facts are there in front of you. Refute them as facts, if you can. Or present what you believe to be the most rational option that would account for those facts.
            BTW, Tim, I would highly recommend you seriously think about this before you respond. You’re already looking pretty irrational. Any further posts like that last one will only serve to make you appear even worse. This is the time to either present an intelligent post or to bow out gracefully.

          • jmichael39

            Tim…I’ve presented 12 broadly accepted facts about the resurrection account. If you wish to refute those facts, please provide evidence that contradicts them.

            Second, you do realize that there are other sources of ‘evidence’ and truth outside the realm of science, right? You do realize that science no monopoly on truth, right?

            Third, if you have evidence to prove that anything I’ve presented comes from “charlatans” feel free to present that evidence.
            Fourth, I have made no attempt yet to prove anything. I’ve presented 12 well known and broadly accepted facts surrounding the resurrection account. You’re free to refute them if you can. If not, present your theories of what exactly happened that could possibly explain as many of those facts as possible. But as of yet, I have made no attempt even present my theories or anything else.

            Fifth, I haven’t even presented an opinion, Tim. I’ve presented facts. Refute them as facts, present your theories to explain them or admit you have no clue.
            This is my third time posting this reply to your message from five days ago. I am nto sure why it never posts.

          • William Austin Long

            But can you account for the existence of Evidence?

          • jmichael39

            are we back to this again, Tim. What evidence is sufficient to prove something?

          • jmichael39

            what are you doing here again, Tim. I thought you refused to engage in a debate about the resurrection. Or did you change your mind and decide to man up and prove what a brilliant mind you have? You ready to debate the Resurrection of Jesus or would you like to just bow out again?

  • SteveN

    If they truly believed there was no God, why are they so obsessed?

    • krewl

      It’s not an obsession. They’re simply giving children the power to think for themselves and make their own decisions based on truth.

      • Fundisi

        See my comments to you below, that is simply NOT the truth.

      • SteveN

        Whose stopping them?

  • Dan Courtney

    As the founder of the Better News Club, it was the opinion of a mental health professional that made me realize that the Good News Club was indeed bad news for children. First, here’s a lesson straight from the GNC’s own materials:

    God’s Gift to You

    I’ve got something for you, (child’s name). You’ve earned this. Just like you can earn an allowance for doing chores, you have done something to earn what’s in this envelope. Do you know what you’ve done? (Let child respond.) You’ve done
    something we’ve all done – you’ve sinned. Who can tell me what sin is? (Let children share.) The Bible says “all have sinned” (Rom 3:23); that means everyone, including you. You have thought, said and done wrong things that break God’s laws. Let’s see what you have earned by sinning. (Have child open envelope and read slip of paper with word DEATH on it.) The Bible says, “The wages of sin is death” (Rom 6:23). You have earned death – separation from God forever in a terrible place of punishment. God is holy (perfect) and He never does anything wrong. God is just (fair) and He must punish sin. So like it or not, all of us have earned death.

    And here’s what a professional psychotherapist had to say about it:

    What you are describing here is a good example of how [specific] beliefs and values [can] directly lead to mental health problems, affecting self-esteem, self-confidence, coping skills, relationships, life style, personality and more.

    For a child to identify himself/herself with a sinful nature (that no matter what they do they will always be sinful to the point of deserving to die) is a very traumatic and
    alienating belief, since it tells the child that they are wrong and bad for being who they are; that they are deficient and bad to the point of deserving death as punishment. Such a belief is incompatible with mental health.

    The individual’s personality is literally shaped by core beliefs about self, others, the world and what is good and bad. When a person’s core self is identified as sinful / wrong / deserving death, and this belief system is programmed from a young age, it literally undermines and disables the person’s potential, nature, and their ability to see or feel good about themselves, and their ability to relate to other people. It is a belief that pushes people to live in guilt, shame and fear.

    The Young Skeptics is a critical thinking club (not an atheist club or an anti-GNC club) that respects, empowers and encourages children to exercise their ability to form beliefs based on reason and evidence. We feel that lifting a child’s potential is far better than undermining it.

    • Fundisi

      The Young Skeptics is atheist and dishonest of you to deny it.

      I have no problem with Christian children using their own minds and
      thinking for themselves, as the Christian faith is built upon facts and
      reason and God wants us to exercise free will. But, that is not the
      case, the only goal as you have betrayed yourself, is to dissuade
      children from believing in God and to turn them from the Christian
      faith, as you folk see Christ as the enemy of your building a socialist, godless utopia in America, like the former Soviet Union and the Peoples Republic of China.

      Just the opposite is true, while we must face the fact we are sinners and deserving of hell and the earlier the better, the Truth of the Gospel is complete forgiveness of those sins and the power to no longer sin with the end being eternal life with God, basking in His Love and Blessings forever.

      • krewl

        Your entire world is based on lies and fear. Thankfully, that world is shrinking every day.

        • Gary

          Opinions vary. You do understand that all you have opinions, don’t you?

          • krewl

            It’s your right to be wrong. You don’t have any facts that back up your claims though.

          • Gary

            But I’m not wrong. If your beliefs were true, you would not be here typing them because you would not exist. The universe would not exist if God had not made it. And life on earth would not exist if God had not created it.

      • Dan Courtney

        I’ve sat through and seen GNC programs, and not once did I see a child ask a question, much less be encouraged to do so. The message is clear, “obey or you’ll be tortured”. This is quite the opposite of encouraging children to think for themselves. If the Gospel is indeed the truth, then encouraging children to ask questions, use reason, and form opinions based on evidence would be the best path to get there.

        I think you might want to ask yourself if it is really ok to create life-long mental health issues in children.

    • krewl

      We should team up. I’m the founder of the Best News Club. We’re an organization aimed at getting children interest in STEM, helping their communities, and training them to be soldiers in Satan’s army.

      • Dan Courtney

        Sure… Satan, that lovable fellow with the red suit and reindeer… oh wait….

    • jeshua

      First of all, as a God fearing Christian myself I have to mention how well you know the word for someone who is so opposed to it, but then again the devil knows the Bible better than even us Christians. However, planting the seed of the plan of salvation is what yhe Good News club does. Children are not condemned for sin in Christianity because they do not know what it is yet. But yes, man, all men, fall short of the glory of God and one day they will be faced with the reality that sin separate man from God. And as a servant of Satan I do not expect you to care about what I’m saying but this comment is more for those confused by this dilemma. God bless you and I pray that you also awake from your ignorance and find the truth in your Creator AND yes, Savior.

      • Dan Courtney

        Jeshua – I think you should speak with the Good News Club folks, because they clearly don’t agree with your statement, “Children are not condemned for sin in Christianity because they do not know what it is yet.”

        In my original comment I quoted an actual GNC lesson, which says in part, “The Bible says “all have sinned” (Rom 3:23); that means everyone, including you.” This lesson is directed at children as young as 5 years old.

        If I was an agent of Satan then you would think that I would rejoice at the fact that children are being harmed by lessons like the one I quoted. No matter what you believe about God and salvation, we should be able to agree that harming children is wrong.

        • Jason Means

          Teaching children that when they die that they are snuffed out from existence, essentially telling them their life has no meaning at all, is just as harming. You might as well tell everyone to be lazy, self-centered people only caring for themselves and do nothing for anyone or society as a whole because it won’t matter anyway. Sorry, Dan, I choose to believe in something and that my life has meaning and will be rewarded for my belief, and I choose to install that belief in my children. I will also choose to teach my children to pray extra hard for you as well. God bless you Dan and Krewl.

    • Oboehner

      Of course teaching children they came from nothing and have no value is much better.

  • krewl

    This is fantastic. Teach children how to think, now what to think.

    • Oboehner

      How is that?

      • James Grimes

        He doesn’t know. He is an Atheist who is out for a troll.

        • Oboehner

          He wants to teach children what to think as long as he agrees with it.

          • krewl

            Teaching children to think on their own is not teaching them what to think. That is what religion is for. If your belief system is not meant to prey on the weak, the feeble minded, and the hopeless, why are you all so afraid of teaching children to think critically?

          • Oboehner

            I have taught my children to think critically, they know that your religion (evolutionism), which is taught in schools, is just that – a religion for the weak, the feeble minded, and the desperate.

          • krewl

            How horribly depressing that you have no only reproduced, but pushed your ignorant and illogical beliefs onto children. You are exactly what is wrong with this world. You ignore fact, and cling desperately to fiction, just to help you through the day. There is no difference between you and any other addict who cannot cope with reality.

          • Oboehner

            That’s a shame you’re horribly depressed, perhaps if you actually had some facts concerning your religion you would feel better. You ignore fact, and cling desperately to fiction, just to help you through the day. There is no difference between you and any other addict who cannot cope with reality.

    • jmichael39

      Silly man, you must have misread…its an atheists club, not a club for rationalists and intellectuals.

      • krewl

        That’s laughable. I challenge you to show me one intellectual Christian and I’ll show you two billion Christian slaves.

        • jmichael39

          I’m more than willing to dispose of your arrogance in any debate any time. You wanna take a challenge? The entirety of Christianity lay hanging by a single thread of doctrine…the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. If there is no Resurrection of Jesus, but Paul’s own words, all of Christianity falls apart and we are the most pitiable of people. You want to take the challenge to refute the Resurrection account of Jesus. You up to it?

          • krewl

            *Gasp!* Oh no, please don’t destroy my fragile world of fact with your unbreakable devotion to fiction.

          • jmichael39

            Ah, I’ll take that to mean you’re too chicken-____ to put yourself into a real debate.. Thank you for making that clear. I suggest you create a new account if you wish to continue your trolling here. You’ve been outed as the intellectual fraud that you are.

          • krewl

            And what is it that you have to debate? The bible is not a book of facts.

          • jmichael39

            Now THERE’S an intelligent argument.

            You wanna start there or shall we actually debate the facts. There ARE facts, you know. And I don’t have to make a single assumption. Historical evidence and experts in history of that region, that time and of the roots Christianity are almost unanimous concerning certain known facts about the Resurrection account. And I’m not talking about just people who accept Christ…but scholars like Bart Ehrman who rejects Christianity, accept certain undeniable facts.

            1) Jesus died by Roman cruxifixiion

            2) He was buried, most likely in a private tomb (the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea)

            3) Soon afterward, the disciples were discouraged, bereaved and despondent having lost hope.

            4) Jesus’ tomb was found empty very soon after his buriel.

            5) The disciples had experiences which they believed were actual appearance of the risen Jesus.

            6) Due to these experiences, the disciples’ lives were thoroughly transformed to the point of being willing to die for this belief.

            7) The Resurrection message was the center of preaching in the earliest church.

            8) This message was especially proclaimed in Jerusalem, where Jesus died and was buried shortly before.

            9) As a result of this preaching the church was born and grew.

            10) Sunday became the primary day of worship for these people

            11) James, who had been a skeptic, was converted to the faith when he believed he saw the resurrected Jesus.

            12) A few years later, Paul became a Christian believer due to an experience he believed was an appearance of the risen Jesus.

            These are broadly accepted facts among scholars in the field. You are free to attempt to refute any one of them. Notice, however, that nowhere did I imply that it is an accepted ‘fact’ that Jesus actually rose from the dead. These are merely accepted facts surrounding the Resurrection account. Your job is to either try to best hundreds of well qualified scholars and refute some or all of these facts, or to present a theory that best explains these facts…as many of them as possible.

            Give it a shot. Remember, ALL of Christianity rests in the Resurrection of Jesus. Paul, himself, said this in I Corinthians 15:14 “And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith.” and again in I Cor. 15:17 “And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.”

            You may THINK Christians are fools for believing in what you think is a fairytale…well here’s your chance to prove it.

          • krewl

            Yawn.. your proof is a bunch of anecdotal evidence from 2,000 years ago? I can find a whole class of eight year olds who have broadly accepted that at little Timmy’s birthday, a clown pulled a quarter right out of his ear. That doesn’t make it a fact. All that boils down to is A) Something happened B) People think they saw it C) they still talk about it.

            That hardly seems like an undeniable truth worth throwing your life away for.

          • jmichael39

            THAT’S argument? That its anecdotal? You need go back to K-Mart and get a refund on that brain your bought for Christmas. Its not working.

            You can call them whatever the heck you want. But unless you can provide substantive proof to refute them as FACTS, then you’re in trouble in this debate. Oh and btw, this Resurrection I’m talking about here happened 2000 years ago, so what EVIDENCE either of us provides has to come from that era or as close to that era as possible. So unless you’re planning on calling any historical account of the entire roman empire, and the greeks and Persians before them because those events occurred 2000+ years ago, you’d better come up with a better argument than that.
            Come on, krewl…seriously, if you’re going to come on to a Christian site and spew your hatred at least have the decency to show some semblance of intelligence. So far you’re looking more like the poster child for village idiots.

          • jmichael39

            So which one is it, Krewl?
            1) something happened….what happened? What could possibly have happened to account for all those things?
            2) people THINK they saw something…yeah that’s an option. It doesn’t account for all 12 facts, by far. But it IS an option to think that 500+ people experienced mass delusion over a 12 year period.
            3) or perhaps some other option.
            Make your choice, krewl…choose carefully…don’t want to look too foolish.

          • jmichael39

            I guess we can clearly see now that krewl is another in a long line of intellectual frauds…pseudo-rationalists who, when challenged to make argument against Christianity, ultimately have none…none but the vitriol and putrid anger they have against a faith that they don’t even understand, let alone have a clue how to refute. But what can anyone expect from another person who clings to a negative existential world view that can never be proven and is utterly self-refuting.

          • krewl

            And what exactly is it that you feel I don’t understand? Your “faith” as you call it, is nothing more than blind devotion to a cult whose leader died thousands of years ago. You’re angry and afraid, because your people are threatened by education. You have NOTHING but the stories that you were brainwashed with as a child, which were beaten into your parents as children, and their parents before them. Teaching children to think for themselves will lead to nothing but the extinction of your kind, and a better world for the human race.

          • jmichael39

            “And what exactly is it that you feel I don’t understand?” – you don’t understand anything. You don’t understand my faith. You don’t under that your world view requires more blind belief than anything I’ve ever believed. Because you can NEVER prove your worldview. And in fact, the very idea that you limit what you will accept as true to what your five senses can perceive and what your simple human mind can conceive, makes you one of the most close minded of all humans.

            “blind devotion to a cult whose leader died thousands of years ago.” – This is truly ironic. You’ve been given a gift…an opportunity to PROVE your belief that Jesus is still dead. And you can’t even put together the weakest of theories to explain the facts surrounding the account of His resurrection. Nor can you even make the effort to refute those facts. You’re honestly intellectually pathetic.

            As for calling him a “cult leader”…its obscene to think you would actually consider yourself to be intelligent and rational. There are hundreds of prophesies in the Old Testament relative to the coming Messiah. The statistical probability of any one person fulfilling even 50 of them is so improbable that should you find one person who did fulfill them that the ONLY logical conclusion one could come to is that that person MUST be the Messiah. But you not only cannot accept that, you refuse to even consider it. Why? Could it be because YOU’RE the one who is angry and afraid. I would be bet that’s the case.

            “You’re angry and afraid, because your people are threatened by education.” – LMAO…most of the western world’s great academic institutions were begun by Christian organizations. Harvard, Princeton, Duke and so on. And considering the fact that you seem to reject any reality beyond your five senses and what your puny mind can comprehend, I’d say YOU’RE the one who’s afraid of education.

            Stories I was brainwashed with as a child? Now your ignorance is becoming laughable. I gave my life to Jesus as an 18 year old college student, fool. I was never taught those ‘stories’. But I have thoroughly and intelligently investigated those stories and concluded them to be true. I’m especially speaking of the resurrection story. You’re free to come up with an alternative theory for the facts I’ve presented…or to refute the facts. Give it a shot. That’s what all this keeps coming back you…refute the presented broadly accepted facts or present a theory that explains them.

          • krewl

            An 18 year old college student? Interesting. So which was it, rehab, jail, or an embarrassing tendency to dabble in homosexual activities, which ultimately lead you to seek out the help of an imaginary friend to lead you through life’s little difficulties?

          • jmichael39

            Wow, dude. You really don’t know how to engage in a debate, do you? You really are as stupid as you appear and as much of an intellectual fraud as I accused you of being. Is this REALLY the best response you can come up with? Seriously? Feel free to try again. I’m sure you can come up with something a wee bit more intelligent next time.

          • freespeechfan

            We don’t have to prove your extraordinary claim of life after death is false, anymore than we have to prove the existence of unicorns is false. YOU have to prove your absurd claim. You cannot. Game over. Come back when you have scientific fact.

          • jmichael39

            The reality of negative existential claims…like “there is no god”…isn’t that they don’t HAVE to be proved. All claims, in any logical debate, HAVE to proved. Its just that any logical human being understands that negative claims CAN’T be proved…and thus avoid them in a logical debate. Why? Because they don’t prove/substantiate anything.

            In order for you prove there is no God you would have to provide evidence of every type, from every time period in history and from every location in the universe. Which clearly neither you nor anyone else can.

            But that’s the preface to this debate You want me to prove the existence of God. You want me to do all the work. Well, you’re not getting off that easy, dude. The first question I always ask from people like you is why? Why should anybody prove the existence of God to you? What are you gonna do with that proof?

            Once you get past your close mindedness and realize that science does, in fact, support much of what the Bible has said…and once you realize that science holds no monopoly on truth/facts/reality…you might just actually find yourself seeing the universe in an entirely new light.

            But let’s deal with one question at a time. Proving the existence of a Designer (without regard, at this point, as to the nature and character of this Designer)…is not that difficult a matter. It is a fundamentally accepted premise to suggest that where there is design, there is always a designer. That is where I would begin. Do you accept that premise? If not, why not? If so, we can proceed to the minor premises that proceed from that.

            Rather than drag this out with very elongated messages via this forum…allow me to proceed to the next step…assuming you DO accept that thesis. If you do not, then please ignore this part as it is irrelevant unless and until you accept the first premise.

            If it is an accepted premise that where there is design, there must be a designer, then I would ask what would be an accepted understanding of what represents the characteristics of ‘design’. I would like to begin this part of the discussion by adding a few basic characteristics that I believe are fundamental to what would represent ‘design’.

            1) Order… Order represents the concept of comprehension. If, for example, there is a fundamental mathematical or scientific equation that can be used to understand or predict some element of that event or object or whatever, then there is order to that event, object or whatever.

            2) Replicable… if something has order and is comprehendible then there is little reason why it cannot be replicated. So long as the materials are available and the actions necessary to replicate can be properly performed then there is design to that event or object. That does not necessarily mean we, as humans, can actually do it, but it is replicable.

            For example, a computer is obviously designed, has order and can easily be replicated by those with the right materials and knowledge to do it. Although I, personally, wouldn’t know how to do it, I know many people who can and have. And frankly, I know I have the intelligence to learn how to. That’s a simple thing.

            But let’s say we want to replicate human intelligence…artificially (meaning, non-organically). While some very smart people have a great deal of understanding about how to artificially mimic human intelligence (and our imaginations…think Matrix Trilogy…allow us to imagine being able to someday completely replicate the human mind), no one has, yet, figured out how to fully replicate the human mind and not just mimic it. With all the programming knowledge we have, the human mind’s complexity is still just a bit too far beyond our ability to replicate.

            The same can be said about every complex element of the universe.

            So, I’ve identified what I believe are two characteristics of Design. Would you care to refute them and/or add to that list?

  • jmichael39

    I’m glad they’re doing it. All religions should be allowed to proselytize. I’ll hold the good news of Jesus Christ and His resurrection against their “gospel” anytime.

  • dawnrosanne

    Praise the Lord! This is great publicity for Good News Clubs around the country. Parents should easily be able to see what is a fraud (the “better news club”–what a joke), and what is honest, good and Godly: the Good News Club. There is no greater message of love, hope and peace than salvation found in the love of Jesus, and the truth and wisdom found in scriptures.

  • John Mark IB

    haha ahhh yes the atheists will not rest until they in their own fictional minds and worlds have truly done what they thought that they did with Nietzsche and GOD is dead? really haha wow please explain how the laws of biogenesis which state that life cannot come from non life ??? but well they are really just showing how lonely and sad they are if they really don’t believe in GOD then why fight what they perceive to be a fictional being unless of course He is really who He says He is?? just sayin 🙂 GOD bless you dear atheist and if you will please consider this a heartfelt plea to read the following and consider the history of the nation of Israel and the history of the Jew and Biblical Archaeology which has yet to reject or deny one iota of The Word Of GOD The Bible, thanks and May well GOD bless you as you honestly seek truth of why you’re here where you came from and where you will be headed for eternity….please read the following and have a blessed day and week

    http://faithsaves.net/

    http://www.pillarandground.org/home/?page_id=36

    http://faithsaves.net/the-book-of-daniel-prophetic-proof-the-bible-is-the-word-of-god/

    http://www.discoverthebible.org/lesson1/lesson1.htm

    http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/

  • DJ Blake

    Telling children they aren’t perfect is abuse? I always thought that was being real and honest as opposed to allowing them to believe they are perfect before sending them into the world to fail anyways.

  • John Munro

    Atheists? Hypocrites and liars corporation Amazing they are funded by communists. None read anything about God just hate him because they are paid to do so.

  • upload

    Krewl’s statements here aren’t debate material but after hominem attacks with no substance. Don’t waste your time with him.

  • Faithwalker

    If children were taught more of the love of God there would be less school shootings and bullying.

  • Susan Moore

    Everyone is a sinner and this does not come from some Dogma. Due to Adam and Eve sinning, everyone is born into sin and everyone sins. We need to pray for forgiveness of our sins as Christ died on the cross forgiving our sins. No one can tell me they have never sinned. Children start bullying at a very young age and that is a sin!

  • http://www.remnantofgod.org/ John1429dotorg

    Why does the Christian debate with the atheist?

    Titus 3:9 “But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.”

  • John Mark IB

    wait sorry I missed it the first time should’ve caught it, but did anyone of us believers catch the blasphemous so called united unchurch of Christ? comments? wow talk about apostate and Christ haters antichrists indeed to say that the CEF needs to have their program inspected by the antiChrists secular Freudian psychobabble mental nut jobs experts?? haha why for preaching the truth to the little children that Jesus said suffer the little ones to come unto me and forbid them not? wow wee times are indeed very strange folks, and so sad with all the false apostates and so called Christian? denominations that name Christ in their titles, well, then my simple question is this why do you even bother trying to profess a name that you hate and shame why bother being a pathetic false Christian if you reject the very fundamental tenets and basics of the faith itself?? communists and secular humanists would love you since you espouse their views anyway?? unregenerates need help and here it is please before it’s too late and you spend eternity in the flames of eternal torment see
    http://faithsaves.net
    http://www.pillarandground.org/home/?page_id=36
    http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com

  • John Mark IB

    and to John1429 yes you’re correct I prefer not to debate because The LORD GOD Almighty doesn’t need us or our help and me to defend Him and His revealed Truth to mankind, it is the lost who but need to be led to the Savior and it is with this that I enter my comments only no debating it we know that already!! thanks and good verse!! GOD bless you with love joy and peace always in Jesus name amen!! see awesome doctrinal sites and pass them on for salvation seed planting thanks to you and thanks to the folks who run this site for letting me post truth and plant seeds and hopefully see lost souls saved to The LORD!!
    http://faithsaves.net

    http://www.pillarandground.org/home/?page_id=36

    http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com

    http://www.discoverthebible.org/

  • Bill_1950

    I can’t believe how afraid atheists are of a God who doesn’t exist.

    • John Mark IB

      hope you’re well my friend, awesome short to the point and good post, may GOD bless you with love joy and peace always in Jesus name amen!! your friend always not sure if this is someone I know or not but if you’re from the FL …….if it’s you then you’ll know me my old friend, if not sorry, and GOD bless!!

      oh and if this is who I believe it is nice to see you got the info. and hope you’re doing great, then you must’ve gotten my Christmas card, ok see also hope for all of them and pass it on to all your friends t at least have the chance to get the truth and I hope you’ll love the deep theological articles, some may be a shocker like info. on the so called sinners prayer history of etc., and asking Jesus in my heart and stuff, see here and let them know the good news the first few are salvation and stuff

      tons of articles from solid Biblical stand

      http://faithsaves.net

      http://www.pillarandground.org/home/?page_id=36

      http://faithsaves.net/the-book-of-daniel-prophetic-proof-the-bible-is-the-word-of-god/

      http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com

      and you’ll love this guy he’s teaching truth from the original correct texts languages and is very sound doctrinally and spripturally enjoy the sermons series on Revelation from 2014 and the Ecclesiastes multiple parts series how to have believer’s view in a fallen world,

      and last but not least his proper Biblical interpretation series 4 parts on Exegeting the Bible CIA pt1 from 11-05-2014
      http://bbc-cromwell.org/sermons2014.shtml

      and how to have a believer’s view in a fallen world below from
      2014,09,14 or Septmeber 14th

      http://bbc-cromwell.org/sundayschool2014.shtml

      sorry to over do it as always and or overwhelm you with to much at once, 🙂

      these guys can do a free Bible study which is very good from CA I’m doing it it’s super helpful and doctrinally sound you’ll love it,
      just the price of postage the guy is the son in law of of an OH friend of mine who used to go to the same church and is sending the studies out and correcting or helping out with any questions via email great guy,

      http://faithsaves.net/bible-studies/

      http://faithsaves.net/studies-of-bible-doctrine/

      http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/

      test your Bible knowledge in these free quizzes
      http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Trivia-Questions/

      http://discoverthebible.org/
      sure would be nice to know it’s you “Willy the duct man”!! here if you ever need me may you and yours have a blessed day and week

  • John Mark IB

    wait, I got it, here’s what really get’s them the atheists and satanist, so angry with, and mad at the horrible Christians!! I got it, you wanna know what makes them so mad at those Christians? yeah, you know those horrible murderous, baby killing, drug pushing, head chopping, lying, stealing, cheating, drunken, rapists, women body part mutilators, killers of those peaceful muslims that only want to worship in peace, those horrible Christians pushing their sharia law and still believe and practice black slavery in Africa, but no on will dare say a word against them for it? ha ha yeah those Christians are so horrible that the atheists are very angry indeed so angry they get their jollies coming into Christian sites and just trying their best to stir up the dung!! ha ha well for one here’s what’s got them all upset and their knickers all twisted up…..it’s the adorable little girl on top of this page, in the title article page, that’s actually praying to her Heavenly Father that’s got them so angry, after all she’s from that repulsive religion Christianity? that kills people in the name of their god allah? those horrible Christians, that did the 911 attacks?, the French newspaper attacks?, kills women and children in Nigeria, and the book haram?, yeah and we even post videos about our Christian religion of peace in the name of allah, showing our Christian beheadings, which is what the lame stream media has even named our wonderful beheaders after the beatles and even has the one Christian guy named John as in John Lennon but they call him jihadi John, yeah it’s no wonder the atheists are so angry at those despicable Christians, you know? it’s only right after all the evil they’ve done in the name of their false god allah ?? yeah those Christians, taking over the colleges, duke and USC/UCLA? and having their prayers blasted over the loudspeakers, early in the morning with that annoying call, to call all to their Christian faithful to morning holy prayers?? those wicked and bothersome Christians? tisk tisk what would the atheists and Satanist do without those Christians to complain about?
    yes folks it’s those darned Christians, and their violent attacks on us peaceful people, that have the atheists so upset, ha ha! really? the world is just so upside down, and loving it, that the atheists and Satanists are serving the same god of this world, as are the real enemies of true peace the muslims, who only want to forcefully kill, rape mutilate low up, and enslave us all, how blind can this world be??
    but they don’t have the big ones enough to attack and condemn and complain about the muslims, so it’s left to us “cry baby Christians” and “the deity they love to hate” as they say for us to cry and complain and say hey folks wake up look at what’s happening but what do they do? they cry and complain because we cry and complain, that a murderous, false religion of peace, is taking over, while they the atheists and satanist, do their utmost to go after the real religion of Peace, and The Prince of Peace Jesus !! hope you’ll understand my intent here to my fellow believer’s, boy oh boy! what a world in which we live, can you see it that times are short??
    so just what is it really? that the atheists and satanists and hater’s of Truth and Jesus Christ are so angry at anyways? I think it’s obvious………
    oh, and did I mention the adorable precious praying little girl that’s praying above as the other real reason the atheists are so angry at the hater Christians?? haha
    may GOD bless you all with love joy and peace thanks to the folks here at the christiannews.net for allowing this discourse and my posts have a blessed day and week
    here’s hope http://faithsaves.net
    http://www.pillarandground.org/homa/?page_id=36
    http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com

  • Daniel Broadway

    If your ‘god’ were real, you wouldn’t need religion or faith. I find it odd that someone can believe in something they’ve never actually seen or heard from, but have only read about. Religion and the belief in mythical beings is coming to an end, and It can’t come soon enough for me. It’s hard to live in a world where supposedly intelligent human beings still believe in god(s).

  • freespeechfan

    May the Better News Club grow and thrive and shine ever more light on the troglodytes pushing their hateful brand of religion on children.