Southern Baptist Leader Russell Moore: Alabama Judges Must Uphold ‘Gay Marriage’ Ruling or Resign

Moore credit Theology 147A prominent Southern Baptist leader who raised concerns last year after he advised that Christians should support the rights of other religions and also traveled to the Vatican for an interfaith conference on marriage is now stating that probate judges in Alabama should either follow the recent federal ruling in favor of “gay marriage” or resign.

Russell Moore, the president of the Southern Baptist Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, made the statement recently to the Baptist Press when asked about his prediction on which way the U.S. Supreme Court might rule on the issue of same-sex “marriage.” He opined that the court will likely legalize the practice, contradicting previous statements made in 2013 regarding the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA).

“The same court that ruled in 2013 that marriage should be a state, not a federal matter, is now imposing a federal definition of marriage on a state,” he stated. “The citizens of Alabama are rightly concerned about the non-action–action by the United States Supreme Court in refusing to stay same-sex marriages in the state until the court hands down its decision this June on the matter.”

But Moore said that until the high court rules on the matter, last month’s federal court ruling striking down Alabama’s Sanctity of Marriage Amendment must be followed.

“As citizens and as Christians, our response should be one of both conviction and of respect for the rule of law,” he remarked. “Our system of government does not allow a state to defy the law of the land.”

“In a Christian ethic, there is a time for civil disobedience in cases of unjust laws,” Moore continued. “That’s why, for instance, Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King Jr. went to jail. In the case of judges and state Supreme Court justices, though, civil disobedience, even when necessary, cannot happen in their roles as agents of the state.”

He then explained his belief that if one does not wish to follow the law, then they should resign from their position.

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“Religious freedom and conscience objections must be balanced with a state’s obligation to discharge the law. We shouldn’t have officials breaking the law, but civil servants don’t surrender their conscience simply by serving in government,” Moore said. “While these details are being worked out, in the absence of any conscience protections, a government employee faced with a decision of violating his conscience or upholding the law, would need to resign and protest against it as a citizen if he could not discharge the duties of his office required by law in good conscience.”

He said that the way to handle the matter is through advocacy and not resistance.

“Given the high bar required for civil disobedience, the way to address same-sex marriage in this circumstance is not by defying the rule of law, but by making our case before the legitimate authorities,” Moore stated. “If we lose, our responsibility is to advocate as citizens for our views, even if that project is (as in the case of the pro-life movement) a long-term project, while we work for our constitutional guarantees of freedom of conscience and religious liberty.”

As previously reported, Alabama Supreme Court Justice Roy Moore issued a letter last week to probate judges throughout the state, advising them that they are not required to issue “marriage” licenses to same-sex couples despite a recent federal court ruling striking down the state’s Sanctity of Marriage Amendment.

“Lower federal courts are without authority to impose their own interpretation of federal constitutional law upon the state courts,” he wrote. “Not only is the Mobile federal court acting without constitutional authority, but it is doing so in a manner inconsistent with the Eleventh Amendment to the United States Constitution.”

“Interference with the right of state courts to make independent judgments based on their own view of the U.S. Constitution is a violation of state sovereignty,” Moore said.

Matt Trewhella, pastor of Mercy Seat Christian Church in Milwaukee, Wisc. and author of the book “The Doctrine of the Lesser Magistrate,” agreed, telling Christian News Network that Moore’s actions were right and proper.

“What Judge Moore is saying is correct. The federal courts should not be the lone arbiters of what is constitutional or not, but state judges have the duty to rule on the constitutionality of law,” he said. “[The federal courts] have contradicted not only the law of God, but also the created order of God, and [Moore and Gov. Bentley] are not going to go along with the federal government’s rebellion against God, but rather do their duty as lesser magistrates and defy the tyranny that the federal courts are imposing upon the people in states across America while they’re trampling Constitutions across the country.”

Credit: Theology 14


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  • Frank

    Maybe Russel Moore should resign. Judge Moore might be a better fit to take Russel’s place. russel definately lost a lot of respect as any sort of leader.

    • Gary

      Russell Moore should be fired before he has the chance to resign. If I were a Southern Baptist, I would be advocating just that.

      • Frank

        No doubt.

      • thoughtsfromflorida

        You’d probably be advocating that he be killed.

        • Tod Thompson

          He said nothing of the sort. Stop instigating and putting words in people’s mouths. If you have a point, make it. Otherwise move along.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            While said with a bit of sarcasm, you apparently haven’t seen how many times Gary as called for the execution of those he does not agree with.

        • thushjz

          Thats a huge leap from “Russell Moore should be fired before he has a chance to resign”

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            While there was a bit of sarcasm in my post, it may be that you have not seen how frequently Gary has called for the execution of those he does not agree with.

    • Asunta1

      I agree. Roy Moore is far better suited in a position with a church than he is suited for his position on the Alabama Supreme Court. He should resign and get a job in the Church.

      • Mary Kilbride

        He is PERFECT right where he is, which is where he is needed.

        • Asunta1

          Surprisingly, I agree with you, to an extent. Since as an Alabama Judge he is required to follow the rulings of the Federal Courts, it is best that he stay there where he can be overruled repeatedly.

          • Fred Gottshalk

            Judge Moore is Alabama’s Supreme court. This is another overreach by the FED. Each state is sovereign. This type of FED overreach started the FIRST Civil war…………..

          • Asunta1

            No, each state is not sovereign. And there was a civil war over this and those sharing your view lost big time.

          • Texas Mimi

            Asunta1, you are wrong! I believe it’s the 14th Amendment that speaks about State’s Rights, where the Federal Government cannot interfere. The Civil War was over slavery, or had you forgotten????

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “I believe it’s the 14th Amendment that speaks about State’s Rights, ”

            Actually it’s the 10th.

            “where the Federal Government cannot interfere.”

            The 14th amendment makes it clear that the federal government can, indeed, interfere in the affairs of the states.

          • Asunta1

            Is everyone in Texas so uneducated? The 14 Amendment speaks about the rights of American Citizens and how their right to Due Process and Equal Protection of the law cannot be infringed by government. The civil war was over the right to states to maintain slavery.

          • conservativeandproud

            No, it is the Tenth Amendment, and the Ninth Amendment tells us: “The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.” Obama and his apostates know nothing of our Constitution, and we allow them to destroy faith wherever they want. Do you also need the First Amendment quoted? Do you even know what it says? Does it say there is a separation of church and state? Read it.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            ” Obama and his apostates know nothing of our Constitution, and we allow them to destroy faith wherever they want.”

            You might want to dial back the hyperbole and false persecution complex – it distracts from the credibility of your position.

          • Tod Thompson

            It sounds like you are advocating the “might makes right” philosophy. I wonder if you broadly apply this type of reasoning or just in this specific case?

          • magormissabib

            You speak of ”right” when defending the abomination of sodomy?

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            That you view something as an “abomination” is not a deciding factor when determining the rights of citizens. The US is not a Christian Theocracy.

          • conservativeandproud

            However, America was founded on Christian principles. If we do not stand up for them, we will soon live under Muslim principles. Get your wives ready for veils and to be beaten if we do not like what they do.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “However, America was founded on Christian principles.”

            Really? What principles would those be? That citizens are to have no god other than the Christian god, thus negating freedom of religion? That citizens are not allowed to say anything that takes the Christian’s god name in vain, thus negating freedom speech? The citizens are not allowed to create graven images, thus negating freedom of expression? That citizens are required to observe the Sabbath, just negating freedom of association and religion? That citizens are required to honor their mother and father, just negating freedom of assocation and freedom of thought? That citizens are not allowed to covet the possessions of others, just negating freedom of thought? Those Christian principles?

            Or were you referring to the Christian principles that women were not allowed to own property, vote, were required to obey their husbands, had few legal rights, and the support of segregation?

            ” we will soon live under Muslim principles.”

            Given the protections provided by the constitution, why do you believe that if we do not codify Christian beliefs into law, that the result will be that will be living under Muslim principles?

          • magormissabib

            stupid [email protected] read a book. The
            Bible was nothing short of the underlying fabric upon which
            American society was founded. Most
            people are surprised to learn,
            however, how large a role the Bible played in the formulation of the
            earliest laws of several of the American colonies. Indeed, it has
            rightly been concluded that “the ideal polity of early Puritan New
            England was thought to comprehend divine intentions as revealed in
            Mosaic law.”
            41
            The rule of law began, not with the rules of man but
            with the rules of God. One Puritan document directly states, “[T]he
            more any law smells of man, the
            more unprofitable,” and thus, it
            asserts, the only proper laws were in fact “divine ordinances, revealed
            in the pages of Holy Writ and administered according to deductions
            and rules gathered from the Word of God.”
            42

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “stupid [email protected] read a book.”

            Ahhhh…that’s nice. Did you learn to talk like that in Sunday School?

            The Puritans. A lovely bunch. Completely intolerant of the beliefs of others. Branded the foreheads of non-believers, and labeled left-handed people as being possessed by the devil. Ahhh…the good ‘ole days. No wonder they no longer exist as a sect of Christianity.

            The constitution is our governing document. The founders included NOTHING in it about religion, so obviously they did not ascribe to the Puritan’s views on governance….thank goodness.

          • magormissabib

            The government has the same ability to outlaw all perversions as they do murder and rape.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            Actually, no, the government does not. The government does not have the right to infringe upon the freedom and liberty of citizens unless it can prove that doing so is necessary to protect the rights of others or to protect the common good.

            You aren’t too familiar with the system of governance in the US are you? Do you not live in the US?

          • magormissabib

            The government has not only the right but the responsibility to protect the safety and welfare of the people and passing laws that promote and encourage sexual perversion aint it.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            How does allowing two citizens of the same gender to enter into civil marriage threaten the safety and welfare of the people?

          • magormissabib

            Nothing is more destructive to a nation than
            wholesale rejection of the plain standard of God.
            “The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the
            nations that forget God.”
            5
            Adam Clarke: “They will
            not live in his fear. There are both
            nations
            and
            individuals
            who, though they
            know
            God,
            forget
            him,
            that is, are
            unmindful
            of him, do not
            acknowledge
            him in their designs, ways, and works. These are all
            to be
            thrust down into hell”

          • magormissabib

            government has no greater responsibility than to
            protect the people from such grievous sin that the
            inevitable result will be
            the outpouring of the wrath
            of God on the land, being great mayhem, carnage and
            destruction. Nothing is better for the health, safety and welfare of the people than to obey God.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “government has no greater responsibility than to protect the people from such grievous sin”

            Not only is it not the job of government to base policy solely on religious beliefs, doing so is a violation of the governing documents of our nation.

            It’s unfortunate that you so despise our constitution and form of government. Perhaps you should consider moving to a country that operates as a Christian Theocracy.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            So you can’t actually cite how allowing two citizens of the same gender to enter into civil marriage threatens the safety and welfare of the people. Got it. I assumed that was the case, but I appreciate the confirmation.

            “Nothing is more destructive to a nation than wholesale rejection of the plain standard of God.”

            First, there has been no “wholesale rejection of the plain standard of God”. Marriage between a man and a woman has not been rejected. It is still happening every day. Second, just because you have chosen to believe that the Bible contains God’s standards does not mean that it does.

            I’ll ask again: How, SPECIFICALLY, does allowing two citizens of the same gender to enter into civil marriage threaten the safety and welfare of the people? How are citizens less safe? How is their welfare affected?

          • magormissabib

            never heard of Sodom???

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            The story of Sodom? The story where the city was destroyed by God because of a lack of hospitality to strangers but had nothing to do with same-gender civil marriage? Yes, I have heard of that. Why do you ask?

          • Tod Thompson

            You clearly misunderstood what I said. I was defending nothing. I simply stated that winning a war doesn’t make the side that prevailed correct. They may well be, but not necessarily so. The Turks (Islamists) committed genocide on the Armenians (Christians). It does not mean they were in the right (correct).

          • conservativeandproud

            What about what the Muslims did to Christians in Spain, and all over the Mediterranean Sea?

          • conservativeandproud

            It cannot be defended. The freedom of Jesus Christ gives us the right to choose for ourselves, however, our Savior determines the consequences for our choices.

          • Asunta1

            No, I am advocating for the Constitution. Read it some day. You will find it illuminating.

          • conservativeandproud

            Some people think they know everything, and have never even read their Constitution. Remember the saying: :”You can’t fix stupid.”

          • magormissabib

            ; courts act wrongfully
            when they override the vote of the people

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “courts act wrongfully when they override the vote of the people”

            So you believe that the residents of a state are free to vote to restrict the rights of citizens provided for under the federal constitution. Where did you come up with that idea?

          • Vic Christian

            there has never been a right for sodomy or for gay marriage. Please refer to the constitution.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            You seem to be under the mistaken impression that the Constitution contains an all-encompassing list of what citizens have the right to do. You are mistaken.

            “Please refer to the constitution.”

            Ok. The 14th amendment requires equal treatment under the law.

          • conservativeandproud

            And, despite what the liberal progressives say, these rights include Christians as well, since the first Amendment says: “Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, nor denying the free exercise thereof.” These are our natural rights, rights given us by God which no government has the right to deny.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            You may want to go back and review the constitution. It does not say “denying the free exercise thereof”. It says “prohibiting”.

            ” these rights include Christians as well”

            Of course they do. They include all citizens. Which “liberal progressives” have said that Christians are not covered by the 1st amendment?

          • conservativeandproud

            LOOK AT THE DEFINITION OF DENYING AND PROHIBITING, THEY ARE THE SAME, YOU ARE PLAYING WITH SEMANTICS. I HAVE MY CONSTITUTION HERE, AND I WILL QUOTE IT EXACTLY FOR YOU, EVEN THOUGH I KNOW YOU WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND IT ANYWAY.
            “FIRST AMENDMENT: “CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW RESPECTING AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF.”
            CONGRESS, MY FRIEND, AND THE TENTH AMENDMENT, IF WE GO BACK TO THE FEDERALIST PAPERS, AND OTHER DOCUMENTS OF OUR FOUNDERS, WE SEE THAT MOST RIGHTS WERE RESERVED TO THE STATES. WE HAVE PROSTITUTED OUR GOVERNMENT, TURNED FROM GOD, AND ARE SUFFERING THE CONSEQUENCES OF IT. I BELIEVE GOD HAD A HAND IN THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THIS NATION. I LOOK MORE THAN TO THE LIBERAL EDUCATIONAL ESTABLISHMENT, AND TO THE LGBT ORGANIZATIONS, OR THE PHILOSOPHIES OF MEN, FOR GUIDANCE ON THESE MATTERS. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO, THAT IS YOUR CHOICE AND YOU ARE WELCOME TO IT. YOU AND I WILL BOTH, INDIVIDUALLY, NO MATTER HOW MUCH WE PROTEST, REAP THE CONSEQUENCES OF OUR CHOICES.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “I HAVE MY CONSTITUTION HERE”

            Is it anywhere near your “Caps Lock” key?

            I’m glad you were able to provide an accurate quote of what the constitution says.

            “WE HAVE PROSTITUTED OUR GOVERNMENT”

            How so?

            “TURNED FROM GOD”

            Who has turned from God?

            “ARE SUFFERING THE CONSEQUENCES OF IT.”

            What consequences?

            “I BELIEVE GOD HAD A HAND IN THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THIS NATION.”

            I agree.

            “I LOOK MORE THAN TO THE LIBERAL EDUCATIONAL ESTABLISHMENT, AND TO THE LGBT ORGANIZATIONS, OR THE PHILOSOPHIES OF MEN, FOR GUIDANCE ON THESE MATTERS.”

            That is your choice.

            “YOU AND I WILL BOTH, INDIVIDUALLY, NO MATTER HOW MUCH WE PROTEST, REAP THE CONSEQUENCES OF OUR CHOICES.”

            Thank you, Captain Obvious. Everyone reaps the consequences of their actions every single day.

          • conservativeandproud

            “Those who will not hear, have no advantage over those who cannot hear.” Especially those who will not hear our Savior.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “Especially those who will not hear our Savior.”

            More accurately: …….who you have chosen to believe is your Savior.

          • Asunta1

            So, you would scrap the Constitution and Bill of Rights, then?

          • conservativeandproud

            Yes, is there not something that says: “Government derives its just powers from the consent of the governed?” I guess we have forgotten that, and Obama and virtually no Democrats ever consider this any longer. And, there is a dearth of Republicans also who stand behind us any longer.

          • Texas Mimi

            There are a lot of Federal Judges who need to be impeached as they’ve over-thrown states’ laws against same-sex marriage, which was approved by the citizens of the states. Alabama made the 37th state that has had it’s same-sex marriage ban over-thrown. This is the Fed interfering in State’s business, and it MUST stop! Everyone call/write/email your members of Congress about this, and keep the lines HOT! They need to know that we don’t agree with the over-reach of Federal Judges. I’ve let my Rep’s office know how I feel about it, and he is on the Judiciary Committee, and worked as a judge here in Texas before running for office.

          • magormissabib

            if the Supreme Court does overthrow all past precedent and
            conclude that a marriage license is a constitutional right– mark these words we tell you: that will only be the beginning.
            Because it is of little interest to the homosexual population in the abstract to have access to a marriage license. What they seek– indeed what they crave–
            is society telling them their sin is acceptable in the sight of God. It will be
            interesting to see how far the courts of this land are prepared to go in uprooting the entire
            form of government and its entire historical jurisprudence,and in plowing over others’ constitutional rights,to accommodate that unholy mission

          • PlatformOfTruth

            Magormissabib – so you made a very interesting comment – you claim that the homosexual population seeks …..i’m sorry CRAVE – is to society accept their sins? Well it seems Texas Mimi, you really have no fundamental education. Homosexuals would first have to consider it a “sin” to want to crave it. 99.99% of homosexuals do not consider it a sin to begin with, making your statement completely off and just dumb. Secondly since when does an “unholy mission” include the government? I know you probably have a misconstrued idea what government should be. However please understand, and just get it together, the church has no place in government, your bible and all its fairy tales have no place in any government law. Read up on how you been misguided, seek wisdom, don’t remain in that shallow pool of ignorance, come out if it.

          • conservativeandproud

            This is someone who is completely ignorant of truth, and making the arguments of Satan.

          • PlatformOfTruth

            Spoken like a truly aggressive violent Christian! What will I burn in hell? What else? Your truth comes from a book of lies, which is full of fallicies and contradictions. Man wrote it, and then re-wrote it aobut 8 times after that. Nothing in that book of lies should be anywhere near our government. The real Satan lies in you, and the hatred that you and our church spew out to people. Thats the real sin, your church and the goers that believe in the garbage that comes from the mouths of igonrant people like you.

          • magormissabib

            [email protected] eat feces

          • PlatformOfTruth

            Keep it up Christian, what else does your limited education tell you to say?

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            I didn’t know that….but you seem to be the voice of experience, so I’ll take your word for it.

          • magormissabib

            smart move.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            Thanks

          • Neutral

            If you don’t believe the Bible to be God’s Word – which He says it is – then that means Y O U think God is a liar…which is impossible.

            You are like many deceived people who believe in their own ‘idea’ of who and what God is like, made up out of your own version of “truth”.

            God’s Word says EXACTLY what He thinks about literally thousands of things – and what He thinks about homosexuality and those who actively participate in it is that it is detestable in His sight and it is an abomination. He does not equivocate or sway in the wind about what He says about it – or about any other sin that imperfect man participates in or commits.

            I pray that you will actually read His Word and pray for the Holy Spirit to convict you so that your eternal soul can be saved before you draw your last breath. And I mean that sincerely.

            The time is growing short and Christ will be returning for those who are watching for Him. The wrath and judgment that is coming is definitely not something you want to be guilty of receiving.

          • PlatformOfTruth

            “Neutral”, what are you neutral about? you are a bible thumper to the core.
            Well its a pity that you and the people of your religion believe everyone else is deceived but themselves. Well think of it this way, we equally think the other is 100% deceived, and on the same equal not pray that the other becomes enlightened, i just hope you one day see the bullshit from that book.
            When you say God’s word, you mean the junk that comes from that book of lies and contradiction? You mean the same one that has been re-written like 9 times throughout its existence. Well neutral I will take my chances and call that book full of bullshit. Keep your religion to yourself, and the idiots that follow you.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “which He says it is ”

            Actually, the authors of the Bible said it was God’s word.

            “God’s Word says EXACTLY what He thinks about literally thousands of things”

            More accurately: You have chosen to believe that God’s views are explained in the Bible. Your choosing to believe that does not make it definitely true. That’s why it’s called “faith” and not “fact”.

            “The time is growing short and Christ will be returning for those who are watching for Him.”

            Did you have a specific time-frame? I’d like to plan a nice brunch. Maybe some fresh bread…a little wine….it’ll be nice.

          • amanofgod

            Platform of truth?

            You said:
            “Your truth comes from a book of lies, which is full of fallicies and contradictions.Man wrote it, and then re-wrote it aobut 8 times after that. Nothing in that book of lies should be anywhere near our government.”

            Let me bullet that to respond:

            1. “Your truth comes from a book of lies”.

            Please provide real valid evidence, (court admissible grade) that the book is full of lies. Opinions do not count as evidence.

            Secondly, it was not authored as a book but as a library of 66 parchment scrolls and/or paparii, composed of 66 books, by about 40 different writers of various backgrounds, living throughout a period of about 1,600 years.

            So let us go back to your assertion, with a pair of corrections.:

            1. Your truth comes from a collection of books that are full of lies.

            How have you proven that of this collection of 31,102 verses, is lies. Or. Which verses specifically are lies?

            How do you know they are lies?

            By what methodology do you know what you claim is true?

            1b. Your truth comes from a book full of fallacies.

            Your second assertion has the same problem.. here let me help you with that:

            “Your truth comes from a collection of books that are full of fallacies.”

            Care to be specific about which bible books or sections of books, or even verses?

            Care to name any actual valid logical errors that God is capable of making?

            1c, Your truth comes from a book full of contradictions.

            “Your truth comes from a collection of books that are full of contradictions.”

            Care to be specific about which bible books or sections of books, or even verses?

            Now for your next assertion:

            “Man wrote it, and then re-wrote it aobut 8 times after that. Nothing in that book of lies should be anywhere near our government.”

            2. “Man wrote it”

            Oh? Shouldn’t you say pens wrote it?
            That would be more accurate seeing as men didn’t finger paint it.
            Oh but wait, you say the MEN used the pens to write it.
            Understand that God created everything in this enter universe. Once you wrap your head around that, you can realize a God who can do that, can use Men just like Men use pens.

            2b.

            “then re-wrote it aobut 8 times after that.”

            Here’s a correction for clarity:

            2b

            “Man has rewritten (do you mean edited?) it about 8 times after it was written the first time.”

            The historical facts disprove “the telephone game” theory:

            The Masortic text as faithfully copied by The two competing authorities, “ben Asher” and “ben Naphtali”, ended in the 1000s. They practically brought the Masoretic text of the old testament in the tenth century A.D. to a close.

            The Masortic text is widely used as the basis for translations of the Old Testament in Protestant Bibles, and in recent years (since 1943)

            the Dead Sea Scrolls (which were recovered in the 1940s) have shown the Masortic text to be nearly identical to some texts of the Old Testament Hebrew bible dating from 250 BC

            The Dead Sea Scrolls themselves included almost all of the Old Testament canon and they date from 250B.C. to 100A.D.

            So…. What does all of this tell us:

            That Humans who handed copied the old testament for 11 or 12 centuries ended up with about exactly what they started off with. Without being edited or modified into something else.

            Also, the copies of the Septuagint, which was a Greek version of the Old Testament written about 250 B.C., show the Masoretic text we have today has been nearly perfectly preserved.

            So

            1000 a.d. MT = 250 b.c. Greek Septuagint = 250 b.c. Dead Sea scrolls Means it was faithfully copied.

            And you are a moron.

          • PlatformOfTruth

            amanofgod, leave it to a Christian to become hostile and call someone a moron. So you ask me to provide evidence, I shall, unfortuantely you have a one sided mind, and what you have provided is easily discredited as you are a simple person with a typical Chritsian violent potential.

            So when i mention a book of lies, I imply contradiction. A contradiction (just in case you want to play with my words as you have done so above) is a direct opposition between things compared; inconsistency. SO to prove my point of contradiction AKA as lies I will give you 5 contradictions in the Bible, As if I were to give you every contradiction we would have a book 10 the size, and you would discredit it as you are of simple mind:

            1) Tempts?

            “And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham.” (GEN 22:1)

            “Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.” (JAS 1:13)

            2) The GENEALOGY OF JESUS?

            In two places in the New Testament the genealogy of Jesus son of Mary is mentioned. MAT 1:6-16 and LUK 3:23-31. Each gives the ancestors of Joseph the CLAIMED husband of Mary and Step father of Jesus. The first one starts from Abraham(verse 2) all the way down to Jesus. The second one from Jesus all the way back to Adam. The only common name to these two lists between David and Jesus is JOSEPH, How can this be true? and also How can Jesus have a genealogy when all Muslims and most Christians believe that Jesus had/has no father.

            3) Order of creation

            Here is the order in the first (Genesis 1), the Priestly tradition:

            Day 1: Sky, Earth, light
            Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky(!)
            Day 3: Plants
            Day 4: Sun, Moon, stars (as calendrical and navigational aids)
            Day 5: Sea monsters (whales), fish, birds, land animals, creepy-crawlies (reptiles, insects, etc.)
            Day 6: Humans (apparently both sexes at the same time)
            Day 7: Nothing (the Gods took the first day off anyone ever did)

            Note that there are “days,” “evenings,” and “mornings” before the Sun was created. Here, the Deity is referred to as “Elohim,” which is a plural, thus the literal translation, “the Gods.” In this tale, the Gods seem satisfied with what they have done, saying after each step that “it was good.”

            The second one (Genesis 2), the Yahwist tradition, goes:

            Earth and heavens (misty)
            Adam, the first man (on a desolate Earth)
            Plants
            Animals
            Eve, the first woman (from Adam’s rib)

            4) Where was Jesus three days after his baptism?

            MAR 1:12 And immediately the spirit driveth him into the wilderness.

            JOH 1:35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples;

            5) Judging

            1 Cor 2:15 “The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man’s judgment:” (NIV)

            1 Cor 4:5 “Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.”

            OK Now you made another statement about who and how the bible was written, lets shine some light on this cretinous idea you have:

            1) Jews and Christians widely believe that Moses wrote the first five books in the Bible. Beginning with some medieval rabbis, however, doubts about this claim have been raised. As an obvious starting point, Moses could not have written Deuteronomy 34:5–10, which speaks about his death. But this glaring inconsistency is just the beginning.

            The books contain anachronisms that Moses could not have written. Genesis 36, for example, lists Edomite kings who lived long after Moses died. The Philistines are mentioned in Genesis, yet they did not arrive in Canaan until 1200 B.C., after the time of Moses.

            Genesis 12:6 implies that the author was writing after the Canaanites had been driven out of the region, something that didn’t happen until the time of Moses’s successor Joshua. Similarly, a clue in Genesis 36:31 suggests that the text was written when Israel was already a monarchy. Genesis 24 mentions domesticated camels, but camels were not domesticated until much later. The caravan trade in Genesis 37:25 only flourished in the eighth and seventh centuries B.C.

            2) In the 19th century, scholars began to discover more inconsistencies and anomalies in the Bible, and its compositional history appeared more complex than anyone had previously thought. In 1886, the German historian Julius Wellhausen proposed that the Hexateuch (the Pentateuch plus Joshua) was a composite of four distinct documents by different authors. These documents were labeled J (Jahwist), E (Elohist), D (Deuteronomist), and P (Priestly), and each has its own theology and agenda.

            This theory explains overlapping or repetitive stories (“doublets”) such as the two accounts of Creation and the two accounts of the Flood—Genesis 7:17 describes a 40-day flood, while Genesis 8:3 describes one lasting 150 days. It is believed that later editors stitched together the multiple sources into one narrative, sometimes intertwining two versions of a single story and neglecting to iron out the seams, as can be seen in the Flood narrative.

            The J source calls God “Yahveh,” or “Jahveh” in German, hence the designation “J.” It pictures God in anthropomorphic terms, appearing to people like Abraham face-to-face. E calls the deity “Elohim,” who shows Himself indirectly, as in dreams. D is the source for Deuteronomy as well as the books of Joshua, Judges, Samuel, and Kings. It defines God as having no form that anyone can see at all. P is cultic in its character and is obsessed with genealogies and lists.

            More recently, the idea of four separate, complete, and coherent documents has come under question, but the composite character of the Pentateuch remains the commonly accepted view.

            3) Deuteronomy means “Second Law.” It is theorized that the book was produced during the time of King Josiah in the seventh century to promulgate new laws strengthening the priesthood and creating a more exclusive religion for Judah.

            The new set of laws reinterprets the old law given at Sinai in light of new political and social realities. Its language presupposes an audience living in established cities and towns with a central Temple. The legislation for a central sanctuary supersedes the earlier law in Exodus 20:24, suggesting that Deuteronomy was written long after Israel’s sojourn in the wilderness.

            In 1805, W.M.L. De Wette theorized that the “Book of the Law” discovered in the Temple in Josiah’s reign was in fact Deuteronomy. Proponents of this view think that the document was deliberately planted to be conveniently discovered. The commands in Deuteronomy are identical to the reforms implemented by Josiah, and so the book may have been written by royal propagandists to give divine sanction to the king’s actions.

            There is also evidence that Deuteronomy is a composite work, written in different time periods. The book found in the Temple was the main part. Individual passages, however, suggest that the Babylonian Exile of the sixth century B.C. had already happened. These passages may have been added at a later date.

            4) The four canonical gospels in the New Testament are anonymous. The names of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were not attached to them until the second century.

            Whoever the original evangelists were, they never claimed they were reporting actual events they themselves saw. The gospels function more like religious advertisements than biographies of Jesus in that they are theologically motivated. Each presents a particular interpretation of Jesus in which Jesus serves as a spokesperson for an evangelist’s theological position.

            In Matthew, the most Jewish of the Gospels, we hear Jesus proclaim the continuing validity of the Torah. In the gentile-oriented John, Jesus Himself breaks the Sabbath. Mark presents a Jesus who is in agony and distress before His death; the Johannine Jesus, by contrast, is calm and in total control.

            Some scholars have proposed that the Gospels were written as midrash, a Jewish interpretative technique that reworks old scriptural narratives into new forms—a “remake,” as Hollywood would style it. Thus, Jesus’s 40-day sojourn in the desert parallels Moses’s 40 years of exile in Midian. When Jesus comes out of the desert announcing the Kingdom of God, that was taken from Moses returning from exile and proclaiming Israel’s coming liberation from slavery. The call of the Twelve Disciples was inspired by Elijah’s call of Elisha. And so on it goes—the gospels were constructed from bits and pieces of old stories but with new cast members and a new stage.

            5) Matthew and Luke share common material not found in Mark. Scholars suspect they had a document, now lost, as their source for these sayings, which they call “Q” (from the German Quelle, or source). We can reconstruct Q by noting the commonalities between Matthew and Luke. Q must have included such biblical gems as the Beatitudes and the Lord’s Prayer.

            Verbal agreements between Matthew and Luke suggest the non-Markan material must have been taken from a written, not oral, source. Matthew and Luke could not have copied from each other because each has stories that contradict the other (e.g., the Birth Narrative and the Resurrection).

            Q is largely a collection of sayings, not a narrative. Matthew and Luke put the sayings in a narrative context, and they used different styles. For example, Matthew incorporated the Beatitudes into Jesus’s Sermon on the Mount, while Luke chose to break up the same sermon and scatter it throughout his story.

            The recovery of Q led researchers to a strange conclusion. Since Q does not contain any Passion story, whoever first wrote the document must have regarded Jesus as a teacher of wisdom and nothing more. Jesus’s death held no salvific significance for that writer.

            So amanofgod, you tell me you from your book of lies, what is truth?

            Lets move on to the Bible itself, you like to use the word “edit” to describe the re-writing of the bible, lets invalidate that.

            Many of the books of the New Testament were written by people who lied about their identity, claiming to be a famous apostle — Peter, Paul or James — knowing full well they were someone else. In modern parlance, that is a lie, and a book written by someone who lies about his identity is a forgery.

            Most modern scholars of the Bible shy away from these terms, and for understandable reasons, some having to do with their clientele. Teaching in Christian seminaries, or to largely Christian undergraduate populations, who wants to denigrate the cherished texts of Scripture by calling them forgeries built on lies? And so scholars use a different term for this phenomenon and call such books “pseudepigrapha.”

            You will find this antiseptic term throughout the writings of modern scholars of the Bible. It’s the term used in university classes on the New Testament, and in seminary courses, and in Ph.D. seminars. What the people who use the term do not tell you is that it literally means “writing that is inscribed with a lie.”

            And that’s what such writings are. Whoever wrote the New Testament book of 2 Peter claimed to be Peter. But scholars everywhere — except for our friends among the fundamentalists — will tell you that there is no way on God’s green earth that Peter wrote the book. Someone else wrote it claiming to be Peter. Scholars may also tell you that it was an acceptable practice in the ancient world for someone to write a book in the name of someone else. But that is where they are wrong. If you look at what ancient people actually said about the practice, you’ll see that they invariably called it lying and condemned it as a deceitful practice, even in Christian circles. 2 Peter was finally accepted into the New Testament because the church fathers, centuries later, were convinced that Peter wrote it. But he didn’t. Someone else did. And that someone else lied about his identity.

            The same is true of many of the letters allegedly written by Paul. Most scholars will tell you that whereas seven of the 13 letters that go under Paul’s name are his, the other six are not. Their authors merely claimed to be Paul. In the ancient world, books like that were labeled as pseudoi — lies.

            This may all seem like a bit of antiquarian curiosity, especially for people whose lives don’t depend on the Bible or even people of faith for whom biblical matters are a peripheral interest at best. But in fact, it matters sometimes. Whoever wrote the book of 1 Timothy claimed to be Paul. But he was lying about that — he was someone else living after Paul had died. In his book, the author of 1 Timothy used Paul’s name and authority to address a problem that he saw in the church. Women were speaking out, exercising authority and teaching men. That had to stop. The author told women to be silent and submissive, and reminded his readers about what happened the first time a woman was allowed to exercise authority over a man, in that little incident in the garden of Eden. No, the author argued, if women wanted to be saved, they were to have babies (1 Tim. 2:11-15).

            Largely on the basis of this passage, the apostle Paul has been branded, by more liberation minded people of recent generations, as one of history’s great misogynists. The problem, of course, is that Paul never said any such thing. And why does it matter? Because the passage is still used by church leaders today to oppress and silence women. Why are there no women priests in the Catholic Church? Why are women not allowed to preach in conservative evangelical churches? Why are there churches today that do not allow women even to speak? In no small measure it is because Paul allegedly taught that women had to be silent, submissive and pregnant. Except that the person who taught this was not Paul, but someone lying about his identity so that his readers would think he was Paul.

            It may be one of the greatest ironies of the Christian scriptures that some of them insist on truth, while telling a lie. For no author is truth more important than for the “Paul” of Ephesians. He refers to the gospel as “the word of truth” (1:13); he indicates that the “truth is in Jesus”; he tells his readers to “speak the truth” to their neighbors (4:24-25); and he instructs his readers to “fasten the belt of truth around your waist” (6:14). And yet he himself lied about who he was. He was not really Paul.

            It appears that some of the New Testament writers, such as the authors of 2 Peter, 1 Timothy and Ephesians, felt they were perfectly justified to lie in order to tell the truth. But we today can at least evaluate their claims and realize just how human, and fallible, they were. They were creatures of their time and place. And so too were their teachings, lies and all.
            As a book with divine qualities and perfection, why would it have been “edited” or truthfully re-written? You really don’t have a foundation to stand on, so sit down.
            I have successfully answered your inquiry, I have more, specially when it comes to the contradictions, as you can see that would make for a very long posting, and believe me the contradictions in that fairy tale book are very long, and extremely inconsistent. You forget in my earier postings, I grew up Christian, and to hear the nonsense that was preached with so many irrational teachings made me succumb to find the truth. As you should as well, and you will finally see that you too have been lied to. There needs to be a rally to stand up against you violent christians, you people are disgusting, and the amount of hate that fills your heart is unearthly, unhumanly and dirty.

          • magormissabib

            The fairy tale, [email protected], is that you can defy God and escape his wrath.

          • PlatformOfTruth

            There it is, thank you so much on proving my point – you Christians are violent and disgusting. I have not harmed, nor hated no one, I do not fear God nor his wrath, you on the other are a poor example of a human. Christians are nasty and violent, and it is proven time and time again.

          • magormissabib

            Dont you got a peephole at a public toilet to be at.?

          • PlatformOfTruth

            Another misconstrued idea by an ignorant and hateful human being. So I assume you are making a homosexual anecdote by that, however for 1 homosexual you know that does that “peephole” thing, i know 5 that are doctors/lawyers/politicians/CEO’s and you have the audacity to make a grimey remark like that. Spoken like a true grimey Christian.

          • magormissabib

            [email protected] eat poo

          • PlatformOfTruth

            Yea this is the limit of your intelligence

          • conservativeandproud

            Psalm 33:12: “Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord.” America is no longer blessed, as our God is no longer the Lord.

          • PlatformOfTruth

            The difference is not everyone thinks like you, and unfortunately many people actually want to see ALL these states come into this century. Just because you want to continue to be a backward thinking person, doesn’t mean the entire state agrees with you. Even your Texas, NO not everyone wants to jump on your side, NO not everyone is interested in your stupid religious points of views, and no NOT ALL OF US WANTS TO FOLLOW YOUR FAIRY BOOK BUILT OF LIES.

          • Jeff Varney

            No one wants to listen to your lies, Truth.

          • PlatformOfTruth

            “no one” wants the Church in our GOVERNMENT!!!!! I mean seriously no one.

          • Neutral

            Those who hate God want no part of Him – here or in the heaven they think they’re going to.

            Those who love Him and look forward to the brightness of His Coming actually cannot WAIT for His Perfect Government and Rule! All the more better if it were here right now, because then all the sin lovers and disgusting perversions would be in hell with the devil.

          • PlatformOfTruth

            “neutral” the only thing that needs to be in hell are the dirty violent Christians that believe the bullshit from that book, and prefer to be violent, than actual peace loving individuals. THe real sin is hate, and you are so full of it, you need to get praying neutral, you have showed your hate today, and now you need to get on your knees. Sorry to dissappoint you, I have never commited a crime nor hated anyone, I am simply speaking truths, and unfortuately the truth doesn’t argee with you trashy religion. Oh well, nothing you can do about it, but I will pray for you.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            There are plenty of people who want the Church in our government.

          • PlatformOfTruth

            I know, its a very unfortunate crowd. The great news is, there are a lot more people that do not want it in our government. That always puts a smile on my face

          • 1PierreMontagne1

            Islam will change all that

          • PlatformOfTruth

            How does islam have anything to do with anything? What are you taking about, please use rational reason

          • 1PierreMontagne1

            Since when has rational reason ever worked with irrational liberals?

          • PlatformOfTruth

            Oh that’s easy. Since we rationally decided that the church has no business in government. Let me ask, why do you use liberals as a negative ? Whenever you can rationally create reason, without using done book of fairy tales to describe a solution, that would be rational. Being liberal is probably the best thing to happen to this country, it allows clear thought process and takes you away from that Christian mob mentality.

          • le

            Without the church, you wouldn’t have government! lol I mean seriously.

          • PlatformOfTruth

            No seriously where did you get that? the church has no place in government. This is a country that seperates church and state! No religion has anything to do with government. Do a bit of research, look at the foundation of Democracy and fundamentals, religion has nothing to do with anything, LIKE SERIOUSLY

          • le

            Platform….Like SERIOUSLY…
            Question for you….
            who ESTABLISHED Government?
            There’s only one answer!

          • PlatformOfTruth

            Ok historically the Greeks invented democracy and no religion there, this country created our government extremely clear! Separation of church and state.

          • le

            No, please try again. The Greeks didn’t invent government. There’s a book that has 66 different books. 39 of them are considered old and 27 of them are considered new. It’s His Book.

          • conservativeandproud

            When the Savior returns, I would love to see you tell him this.

          • PlatformOfTruth

            You keep your bible thumping ideas to yourself. I was created by the same God that created you. So go preach that garbage to only the people that believe in that useless book.

          • Neutral

            Well, “platform”, you’re entitled to your (deceived) opinion. Good luck with that.

            I actually hope and pray that you discover the truth about God before you draw your last breath.

          • PlatformOfTruth

            Oh no no, I do have God in my heart, just not that book of lies. “Neutral”, I truly believe you and people who agree with you, the ones who are truly deceived. I hope and pray you wil one day realize all those lies you have been fed year after year. One day I pray you seek enlightenment from that wretched religion you belong to and see the truth about the bible and those lies.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “There are a lot of Federal Judges who need to be impeached as they’ve over-thrown states’ laws against same-sex marriage, which was approved by the citizens of the states.”

            Why would that be a reason to impeach the judges? Are you suggesting that citizens should NOT be allowed to challenge laws in court? Or that the judiciary should NOT be allowed to rule on laws that were put into place by a majority of those who voted on an issue?

            “Alabama made the 37th state that has had it’s same-sex marriage ban over-thrown.”

            Actually, it’s 34. Three states put same-gender marriage in effect through ballot measures.

            “This is the Fed interfering in State’s business, and it MUST stop!”

            Then you should seek repeal of the 14th amendment. It won’t stop until that amendment is repealed.

            “They need to know that we don’t agree with the over-reach of Federal Judges.”

            It is not “over-reach” for the federal judiciary to rule on the constitutionality of state laws. The ability of the federal judiciary to do so is based upon the 14th amendment.

            “I’ve let my Rep’s office know how I feel about it, and he is on the Judiciary Committee, and worked as a judge here in Texas before running for office.”

            No doubt he really enjoyed your legal analysis.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “There are a lot of Federal Judges who need to be impeached as they’ve over-thrown states’ laws against same-sex marriage, which was approved by the citizens of the states.”

            So you believe that if a member of the judiciary rules that a law that was put into place by majority vote is unconstitutional, then the judge should be impeached, correct?

            Therefore you do NOT believe that citizens should have the right to challenge laws in court and you do NOT believe that the judiciary should be empowered to rule on such challenges, correct?

            Further, you do NOT support our constitution and our constitutional republic form of government and would prefer that the US were a pure democracy where rights were not assured, but rather, can be granted or taken away at any time by a vote of the people, correct?

          • magormissabib

            Maybe the United States
            Supreme Court is going to ignore the structure of government this nation enjoys, and put a distinction between what belongs to the federal government vis-à-vis what belongs to the
            state government, and intrude into the domestic matters of the states; utterly contrary to the Constitution, ignoring “the appropriate respect [the Supreme Court owes] to States as sovereigns and to the people of those State who approved those laws,”

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            The state government does not have right to institute laws which violate the federal constitution. If you unclear on this matter, please see the 14th Amendment to the constitution.

          • conservativeandproud

            What the Federal Government had the right to do, according to our Constitution, was few, and the rest were reserved to the states. We have forgotten this principle. We are returning to the days of the Divine Right of Kings, i.e., The Divine Right of Government. Read Lex Rex, by Samuel Rutherford, which tells us why government is subservient to the people, instead of government being able to execute us for reading the wrong translation of the Bible. Watch Monumental, by Kirk Cameron. It is amazing. Many things I had not known. Look at Wallbuilders and David Barton. He has well-documented our Constitution what our Founders said, and how they told us we have a Republic, not a Democracy, if we can keep it. They actually told us a Democracy was evil. How many people even know this today?

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “We have forgotten this principle.”

            The 14th amendment is quite clear. The states, while enjoying great autonomy, are not allowed to enforce laws which violate protections provided by the Federal constitution. What part of that do you not understand?

            “Look at Wallbuilders and David Barton.”

            David Barton? Seriously? You mean the David Barton who was exposed for lying about what he put in his book? The one who was caught making things up and attributing them to Jefferson? That one who admitted he lied in his book? THAT David Barton?

            “They actually told us a Democracy was evil. How many people even know this today?”

            The lack of that knowledge seems quite common in many evangelicals, as they seem to believe that if a majority of voters approve something, that vote is final and there is no legal recourse and the judiciary should not be overturning “the will of the people”. Oddly, though, when it was the will of the people to add sexuality to anti-discrimination laws and a business owner is held accountable for breaking those laws, they run to the judiciary to attempt to get the “will of the people” overturned and feel completely justified in doing so.

            Hypocrites.

          • conservativeandproud

            See, there are some things we can agree on. A Republic is much different that a Democracy, as it protects the rights of the minority instead of just doing everything the majority wants. In a Democracy, if I got a bunch of people together and we voted, because we do not like the way you have your hair, because we are a majority, we voted to shave your head, so we will do so. That is why a Democracy is so evil. And, friend, do not assume I am an evangelical. I am not, but believe we have to work together where we can or we are not doing the Savior’s work. And, I do not believe that because we differ on politics that we should have hatred or ill will toward each other. We are still all children of God, and he loves everyone, even when we sin, though he does not appreciate the sin.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            I did not assume you were an evangelical. You are much too well spoken and rational for that.

            “believe we have to work together where we can or we are not doing the Savior’s work. And, I do not believe that because we differ on politics that we should have hatred or ill will toward each other. We are still all children of God, and he loves everyone, even when we sin, though he does not appreciate the sin.”

            Agreed.

          • magormissabib

            being a pervert is not a constitutional right. that is your fagorite misdirection to compare a conduct to an immutable characteristic.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “being a pervert is not a constitutional right.”

            You are mistaken. People have a right to be whatever they care to, as long as they do not infringe upon the rights of others or threaten the common good in doing so.

            You may find it helpful to gain a better understanding of the rights of citizens in the United States.

            “that is your fagorite misdirection to compare a conduct to an immutable characteristic.”

            Where have I done that and how is that distinction relevant?

          • magormissabib

            There is nothing in the constiitution that protects deviant sexual conduct. The government has the same right to out law perversion as they do rape and murder. homosexuality is not a condition of being, it is a conduct.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “There is nothing in the constiitution that protects deviant sexual conduct.”

            Sure there is. Freedom of association. It’s right there in the constitution.

            “The government has the same right to out law perversion as they do rape and murder.”

            Rape and murder infringe upon the personal rights of others. Homosexuality does not. So, no, the government does not have the same right to outlaw homosexuality as it does rape and murder.

            “homosexuality is not a condition of being, it is a conduct.”

            Then people who are sexually and emotionally attracted to people of the same gender, but don’t act on those attractions, are NOT homosexual, correct? And, in that same vein, people who are sexually and emotionally attracted to people of the opposite gender, but do not act on those attractions are NOT actually heterosexual, correct?

          • magormissabib

            the duty is to
            follow the standard of God.
            Not invent a multitude of
            sociological, pseudo-scientific, historical or any other
            theory or reasoning that leads to ignoring and dis-
            obeying the plain standard of God. The highest inter-
            est of government is to
            follow the standard of God;
            appeal to the people to
            follow the standard of God;
            and establish policies and laws that follow the stan-dard of God.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “the duty is to follow the standard of God. ”

            That is certainly not the duty of the government.

            “The highest inter-est of government is to
            follow the standard of God;
            appeal to the people to
            follow the standard of God;
            and establish policies and laws that follow the stan-dard of God.”

            What country do you live in? What you described is certainly not the interest of the government of the United States.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            You might want to check out the 14th amendment, Fred. Understanding it would be helpful to you.

          • conservativeandproud

            He is standing up for the faith, that is what we need. Remember President John Adams: “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “. . . Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind.” – John Adams

            “This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.” – John Adams

      • BearNJ

        Exactly right. Judge Moore embarrassed Chris Wallace on Fox news last week. Wallace had no answers other than the Supreme Court will say so and rushed to end the segment.

        • Asunta1

          Too bad Fox did not include someone who understands the law. With Wallace and Moore the number with a correct understanding of the law is zero.

          • BearNJ

            Moore was completely correct in his understanding. He took him to Constitutional school. Moore explained the law and about separation of powers which Wallace claimed was getting into the “weeds”. Wallace wanted Moore to submit to another judge’s opinion. Moore accurately stated it wasn’t the law. That opinion doesn’t override the Constitution or the state’s law. It’s simple.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “He took him to Constitutional school.”

            LOL

          • BearNJ

            .Moore did. Federal law is made by legislatures. A trial judge opinion on the Constitutionality of a Federal case is just an opinion. Federal law is not made by judges. This is separation of powers. Roy Moore understands its an opinion it doesn’t undo the state’s Constitution. The people are being denied due process as a judicial oligarchy violates the rights of the citizens to determine this issue in a civil society.

            I guess this is just over your head. It was obviously over Wallace’s head. That’s the problem with people today in they think the state can take away their unalienable rights. constitutionally they can’t-unless you let the tyrants do it.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “Federal law is not made by judges.”

            Correct. Nor did the judge make any law.

            “Roy Moore understands its an opinion it doesn’t undo the state’s Constitution.”

            It is a ruling, and, yes, the federal judiciary has the ability to rule that a state law is in violation of protections provided by the federal constitution.

            “The people are being denied due process”

            Since the state was represented in the case and allowed to present their argument, they were not denied due process.

            “violates the rights of the citizens to determine this issue in a civil society.”

            Citizens do not have the right to enforce laws which violate the protections provided by the federal constitution.

            “I guess this is just over your head.”

            Remind me not to get lottery numbers from you. Your guessing is pretty bad.

            “That’s the problem with people today in they think the state can take away their unalienable rights.”

            Agreed. A prime example of this is people who believe that they can take away the right of two citizens to access civil marriage based upon nothing more than the gender of the two people.

            “unless you let the tyrants do it.”

            Tyrants like Judge Moore.

          • BearNJ

            The people voted to define marriage. It’s always been a state issue. Your”civil rights” claim is baseless. The 14th amendment was written to give blacks equal protection. It had nothing to do with redefining marriage. The issue is the left once again finding liberal left wing judges to overrule the the people. That’s tyranny. Democrat AG’s refused to defend the rights of the voters in California and Virginia. Obama refused to defend DOMA which was and is the law. Again we lived in a representative republic not a judicial oligarchy

            Why do you insist on imposing your values on a nation? You Leftists only want free choice in the right to kill babies in the womb. On ever other issue you want the government to impose its will in a Representative Republic.

            Please stop lecturing us on toleraance. The Gay jihad are the intolerance one’s. The Gay Lobby seek validation for their lifetyle. It not about tolerance. That’s a word they hide behind. They demand their lifestyle is validated by the government and that we will be made to care. They will demand you bake their cakes, hold their ceremonies in your chapel, marry them, approve that they adopt and concieve children and propagandize children that their lifestyle is normal in
            government run schools.

            Personally I was fine with Civil unions but this is an attack on the 1st amendment and religious liberty. The Marxists hate American exceptionalism and hate the Judeo Christian values the country was founded on. They have taken over government, the courts, the schools, pop culture the put it in decline but they can’t get rid of it. The Left’s biggest enemy is the church. Marxists want the state to be the ultimate power and they are using this Rainbow jihad to silence the church from public expression. Religious liberty will be the casualty of this sellout. We’ve seen it already. It’s like Obamacare. If you like your plan you can keep your plan has been changed to that this doesn’t affect religious liberty. BS X 1000. We’ve seen it already because the nasty Left can’t control themselves in suing religious people for “civil rights” violations. That’s tyranny.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “The people voted to define marriage”

            Correct. The people are not, however, allowed to enforce a law that violates protections provided for under the constitution. The US is not a pure democracy. It is a constitutional republic.

            “Your”civil rights” claim is baseless.”

            The judiciary disagrees.

            “The 14th amendment was written to give blacks equal protection.”

            While the issue that precipitated the writing of the 14th amendment was race, the amendment is not restricted to issues of race. It applies to all situations regarding equal treatment under the law.

            “The issue is the left once again finding liberal left wing judges to overrule the the people.”

            When challenging cases in court, one doesn’t “find” judges. The cases are assigned randomly. There have been just as many “conservative” judges who have ruled on this matter as there have been “liberal” ones.

            “That’s tyranny”

            How is it “tyranny” for a member of the judiciary to rule on case before the court?

            “Democrat AG’s refused to defend the rights of the voters in California and Virginia.”

            The rights of voters were not before the court. Therefore, your statement is incorrect.

            “Why do you insist on imposing your values on a nation?”

            I don’t. Nor do I have any power to impose my values on any one else. People are free to hold to whatever values they care to. Why are those who oppose same-gender marriage based upon biblical teachings attempting to impose their values on all citizens?

            “Please stop lecturing us on toleraance.”

            I haven’t lectured anyone on tolerance.

            “They demand their lifestyle is validated by the government and that we will be made to care.”

            No such demand is being made, and you are free to care, or not care, about whatever you like. You cannot be “made” to care about something.

            “Personally I was fine with Civil unions”

            Ahhh….how nice of you to fine with a system that denied protections, rights, and benefits to some of your fellow citizens. What a sweetheart!

            “but this is an attack on the 1st amendment and religious liberty.”

            How is allowing same-gender marriage “an attack on the 1st amendment and religious liberty”?

            “the Judeo Christian values the country was founded on.”

            The country was not founded on Judeo Christian values. The Judeo Christian belief system does not support freedom of religious belief, freedom of speech, nor freedom of association. Nor does it support that idea of individual liberty and freedom to pursue happiness as the individual chooses.

            “using this Rainbow jihad to silence the church from public expression”

            Please spare me the hyperbole and false persecution complex. As is plainly evident, no church is being silenced from public expression.

            “the nasty Left can’t control themselves in suing religious people for “civil rights” violations. That’s tyranny.”

            So you believe holding people accountable to the law makes one “nasty” and is tyrannical? Please explain.

      • conservativeandproud

        Typical Christians who do not believe in standing up for their faith.

    • http://www.christianvideo4free.com/ Peter Stone

      Amen!!

  • TheBottomline4This

    Gay “marriage”.

  • Gary

    I disagree with Russell Moore. The government system is rigged. Christians will never get a fair hearing from the courts. The majority of federal judges are non Christians and in fact are hostile to God and to Christ. The only options the government is giving Christians is either submit to their rulings or disobey.

    • SFBruce

      You have another alternative: try and get people elected who agree with you.

      • Gary

        Been trying to do that for years. It does not work.

        • Layni Shepherd

          Thats called democracy, unless of course you are Tom Delay and gerrymander your districts to gain an unfair election system in your favor.

          • Mark Barker

            Both sides have done that for over 2 centuries.

          • Fred Gottshalk

            You mean like Corrine Brown, or Jackson of Illinois and many other dems?

        • thoughtsfromflorida

          And what does that tell you, Gary?

        • Fred Gottshalk

          Gary, it does work. JOIN A TEA PARTY OR OTHER LIKE MINDED GROUPS. Saying that it does not work, is a cop-out, meaning that you don’t want to put any effort into it.

          • PlatformOfTruth

            Your efforts are futile, the majority of the country sides with the Supreme court. THE REAL FIGHT IS REMOVING BACKWARD CONSERVATIVES LIKE YOU!

        • MGM46

          I think he spoke the truth when he said he would like to remove those from society that did not agree with him/her.

          • PlatformOfTruth

            That is his truth, now if our nation thought the same in this manner – bile thumperswould be removed a long time ago.

      • Mary Kilbride

        You can try, but get that done with the way things are today. Doesn’t and won’t happen. Especially, since the sheep go along with any garbage spewed to denigrate anybody that runs for office that has any differing viewpoint, or who is Christian and conservative. Not hopeless, just means we gotta fight harder.

        • PlatformOfTruth

          Its a new century, what fight harder willyou try? the majority of the Country is in agreeance with the Supreme Court, only bible thumpers are trying to thrust the bible in our government. Get over yourself, this is America, we vote here, and the real fight is to remove people like you from society, trying to take away other peoples basic human rights!!!

          • MGM46

            Is the majority always right? There are some people that believe the Bible – many others are chest thumpers and use themselves as an authority or in some cases thump themselves on the chest and go along with the crowd.

          • PlatformOfTruth

            Its funny you say that, the sentiment you describe is exactly how Christians are perceived. When they try to push their religion on people, and convince themselves that their way is the only right one. Christians in the south, in general are violent, aggressive, and downright nasty. Therefore, my vote goes to the other side, its much more pacific and thoughtful. There are more educated and highly inteligent people that have more enlightening subjects, then bible thumping and spreading lies.

          • MGM46

            Let see if your philosophy is biased or not> You say people push their religion on others – if a person states an opinion, do you consider that pushing – of so aren’t you pushing your agenda on others??

          • PlatformOfTruth

            Wait was that a well thought out question. Ok lets see you want me to say that my agenda is being pushed onto others by stating an opinion? Well in a general sense opinions are that, opinions and everyone is entitled to it, now are you stating that the bible is an opinion, of which I would agree and that would be for you and whoever wants to believe in the garbage that comes from it. Now My argument on here is leave your religion at home and at church, it has nothing to do with government. That by the way is the law, and this country is more than in agreeance with me on that thought. And that – is not pushing an opinion or agenda on people.

          • MGM46

            You might want to read my post again – don’t believe it says what you are stating – probably one of those perceptions on your part.

            Your bias is pretty evident, which means you cannot carry on a decent conversation.

            Do you really think the majority is always right – and think carefully before you answer that.

            I will give you the last word, and won’t respond, since you have a nasty attitude about some of the things I believe.

          • PlatformOfTruth

            Doesn’t matter what you believe or I do, Leave your bible at home, there is no place for that book of fairy tales in government.
            That is all – and have a pleasant day.

    • Asunta1

      The majority of Federal judges are, in fact, Christian. The other option you have is to leave.

      • Mary Waterton

        The majority of federal judges are NOT Christian. No more Christian than the Muslim in the White House.

        • Asunta1

          The federal jjudge in Alabama is a Christian. Most federal judges are Christian. Just not the perverted version you practice. They are true Christians, like your President.

          • Gary

            You are ignorant, at best. I hate to mention the worst.

          • http://victimsofgaybullying.wordpress.com/ JBenning

            Where in the hell did you get that idea? Better yet, how a hole did you have to dig find that crap? Asunta1 you are a muslim…..either that or you don’t have a brain.

          • dark477

            they’re christan they just don’t follow your twisted version.

          • Mary Kilbride

            What is the twisted version? Please enlighten me as to what that is. Give me some examples that are based on scripture.

          • Asunta1

            What idea? Most judges are Christian. Probably because most Americans are and they get picked from Americans. If not Christian, what do you suppose they are? Myself? I am something you clearly are not: a Christian.

          • Mark Barker

            76% of Americans identify as Christian. But calling yourself Mercedes and moving into the garage, does not make you a car.

          • Asunta1

            That is certainly true. There are plenty of Americans who follow the hateful version of christianity of folks like Huckabee and Moore. They may call themselves Christian but their actions and word suggest otherwise.

          • thushjz

            You mean like supporting the destruction of human life through abortion? like your version of Christianity? or maybe you would like the cross replaced with the Islamic moon and sickle, just to be “tolerant” and “coexistent”

          • Asunta1

            Where did I mention a single word about my views on abortion? Lying is not very Christian of you.

          • Mary Kilbride

            Do you know what a Christian is? It is one who follows the teachings of Christ. Who follows God’s Word. Our President has shown through his words and behavior, that he is not only not following the teachings of Christ, that he does not even know what is in the Bible as witnessed by his misquotes of things that are not even remotely there, and his twisting of and laughing at the things that are. A Christian does not poke fun of God’s Word.

          • Asunta1

            I suppose you think the Pope is not a Christian as well, right? And you cannot provide an example of the President misquoting the bible.

          • http://www.remnantofgod.org/ John1429dotorg

            She doesn’t have to think the pope is one…if you believe the pope is Christian did you have little understanding of the Christian God.

          • Asunta1

            “if you believe the pope is Christian did you have little understanding of the Christian God.” That makes no sense.

          • http://www.remnantofgod.org/ John1429dotorg

            Makes no sense to those who do not read a Bible…

          • Asunta1

            Your sentence makes no sense. What does “did you have little understanding of the Christian God” mean?

          • http://www.remnantofgod.org/ John1429dotorg

            That’s means one reads a Bible and examines the fruits of those who claim they are Christian by what is penned in the Scriptures…the same Scriptures that the popes in Rome HATE.

            (Rev.) Dr. Cahill declared that “he would rather the Catholic should read the worst books of immorality than the Protestant Bible-that forgery of God’s Word, that slander of Christ.” – (Roman Catholic Tablet, December 17, 1853, p. 804).

            “Do you allow your flock to read the Bible at all?” said a writer in the Contemporary Review to a friend of his, a parish priest. “No, sir, I do not; you forget that I am a physician, not a poisoner of souls.” -Contemporary Review April, 1894, p. 576.

            “The doctrines of the Catholic Church are entirely independent of Holy Scripture.” Familiar Explanation of Catholic Doctrine, Rev. M. Muller, p.151.

            The decree set forth in the year 1229 A.D. by the Council
            of Valencia… places Bible on The Index of Forbidden Books. The doctrine withholds “it is forbidden for laymen (common man) to read the Old and New Testaments. – We forbid them most severely to have the above books in the popular vernacular.” “The lords of the districts shall carefully seek out the heretics in dwellings, hovels, and forests, and even their underground retreats shall be entirely wiped out.” Council Tolosanum, Pope Gregory IX, Anno. Chr. 1229

            The church Council of Tarragona ruled that: “No one may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments in the Romance language, and if anyone possesses them he must turn them over to the local bishop within eight days after the promulgation of this decree, so they may be burned.” D. Lortsch, Histoire de la Bible en France, 1910, p.14.

            “Socialism, Communism, clandestine societies, Bible societies… pests of this sort must be destroyed by all means.” The encyclical Quanta Cura Issued by Pope Pius IX, December 6, 1866

            “The Bible does not pretend to be a formulary of belief, as in a
            creed or catechism. There is nowhere in the New Testament a clear, methodical statement of the teaching of Christ” -Question Box, p. 66

            “The very nature of the Bible ought to prove to any thinking man the impossibility of its being the one safe method to find out what the Savior taught.” Ibid., p. 67

            …It was well for Luther that he did not come into the world until a century after the immortal invention of Guttenberg. A hundred years earlier his idea of directing two hundred and fifty million men to read the Bible would have been received with shouts of laughter, and would inevitably have caused his removal from the pulpit of Wittenburg to a hospital for the insane.” -The Faith of Our Fathers, p. 69; see also The Faith of Millions, p. 152

            “Again it has ever been practically impossible for men, generally, to find out Christ from the Bible only.” -Question Box, p. 70

            “…The Bible nowhere implies that it is the only source of faith.” -Ibid., p. 77

            “The Scriptures indeed is a divine book but it is a dead letter, which has to be explained, and cannot exercise the action which the preacher can obtain.” -Our Priesthood, p.
            155

            “…A dead and speechless book.” -Question Box, p. 67

            “The simple fact is that the Bible, like all dead letters, calls for a living interpreter.” -The Faith of Millions, p. 155

            “The Bible was not intended to be a textbook of Christian religion.” -Catholic Facts, p. 50

            And this is just a handful of quotes that show the RCC’s open hatred for the Scriptures. So how I ask, can one be a Christian if he hates the very Bible authored by the Christian God.

          • Asunta1

            God, you are dense. You put the word “did” in there which made the sentence gibberish.

          • PlatformOfTruth

            Mary, and this is important because? Since when does the President or Government for that matter, need to follow that fairy tale book called the bible? A true Christian loves all, not limits, and takes basic human rights away, get yourself together enlighten yourself on the bullshit that comes out of that book. Its a pity how you and people like yourself are brainwashed.

          • thushjz

            lol

          • Vic Christian

            a true Christian is a follower of Jesus Christ – not, a church member or someone who claims to be a Christian yet goes against God’s Word.

          • Asunta1

            And most of the federal judges, including Granade, are, therefore, true christians.

        • thoughtsfromflorida

          What is your basis for that statement? Are you suggesting that they aren’t Christian because they rule in ways that support our constitution rather than ruling in ways which would be indicative of a Christian Theocracy?

          • Mary Kilbride

            They are clearly unconstitutional.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            What are clearly unconstitutional?

      • Gary

        Christians don’t support ssm.

        • Asunta1

          Most actually do, including those Gay Christians who are married.

          • Gary

            No one who is a real Christian supports ssm. And there is no such thing as a homosexual Christian.

          • Asunta1

            Since you clearly are not a real Christian, your opinion does not matter.

          • thushjz

            You wouldn’t know what a real Christian is if they spoke to you the words of Christ Himself from the bible…oh, wait

          • Asunta1

            I do and you are not one.

          • http://www.remnantofgod.org/ John1429dotorg

            Truth be told!

          • Mary Kilbride

            Therein you have just shown your complete lack of understanding of Christianity. You gotta go read your Bible, and really read it to understand. And, if you don’t believe the Bible, you don’t have any understanding of God and His law. I suggest you go spend some time with God, communicating with Him through His Word and prayer and don’t even take a glimpse of this messed up world.

          • Asunta1

            Your God may tell you that your hatred is OK, but mine does not. Mine warns me that the bible was written by men and is imbued with the ignorance and prejudices of the men who wrote it. Apparently, God gave me something he did not give you: the ability to reason. Folks like you only purport to follow those parts of the Bible that reinforce your hatred of others. You ignore the parts you don’t like. What you had better hope is that there is no hell cause, if there is, you will spend eternity there.

          • http://www.remnantofgod.org/ John1429dotorg

            So your “god” tell you that hell is eternal too? He enjoys the screams of billions riving in pain for all eternity? Are you sure this is the Creator God speaking or the god of this world filling your head with lies? How about some Scripture to support your claims?

          • thushjz

            Now flip that around and you’re talking about yourself…

          • PlatformOfTruth

            No he speaks the truth, you may feel different, but what he is saying is 100% accurate.

      • Mary Kilbride

        Oh yeah…they are Christian. That is just one example of the “garbage being thrown”.

        • Asunta1

          Good that you now understand that. There is one Judge who fails the test of being a good Christian. His name is Roy Moore.

      • http://www.remnantofgod.org/ John1429dotorg

        They are Catholic…thus they are not Christian.

        • Asunta1

          So, Catholics are not Christians. I guess Catholics would think you are not a Christian. But, then again, they are not generally bigots.

          • http://www.remnantofgod.org/ John1429dotorg

            I stand by my claim…paganism is abhorred by the Christian God, and Catholic doctrine is of pagan origin. The RCC even admits such in writing.

            “It is interesting to note how often our Church has availed herself of practices which were in common use among pagans…Thus it is true, in a certain sense, that some Catholic rites and ceremonies are a reproduction of those of pagan creeds….” (The Externals of the Catholic Church, Her Government, Ceremonies, Festivals, Sacramentals and Devotions, by John F. Sullivan, p 156, published by P.J. Kennedy, NY, 1942)

            “It has often been charged… that Catholicism is overlaid with many pagan incrustations. Catholicism is ready to accept that accusation – and even to make it her boast… the great god Pan is not really dead, he is baptized” -The Story of Catholicism p 37

            Cardinal Newman admits in his book that; the “The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; votive offerings on recovery from illness; holy water; asylums; holydays and seasons, use of calendars, processions, blessings on the fields; sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the East, images at a later date, perhaps the ecclesiastical chant, and the Kyrie Eleison [Note 17], are all of PAGAN ORGIN, and sanctified by their adoption into the Church. {374}” -An Essay on The Development of the Christian Doctrine John Henry “Cardinal Newman” p.359

            But since you judge by the “holiness” you see on TV, then you assume otherwise.

          • Asunta1

            I guess the Klan’s hatred of Catholics is alive and well.

          • http://www.remnantofgod.org/ John1429dotorg

            I gave you quotes from Rome itself and you name call right away. LOL!!!

          • Asunta1

            So, a city speaks? Go burn a cross.

          • PlatformOfTruth

            This guy John obviously is picking precisely what he wants to say – Christians ahve always found a way to claim how better they are, even amongst the various Christian religions. Its a complete joke. Just like that book of fairy tales they use to guide themselves with!

          • PlatformOfTruth

            HA, I love this

      • MGM46

        I would like to see some stats that the majority of Federal Judges are Christians – unless you are using that term as non – Muslim.

    • Peter Leh

      gary you have yet to get arrested… you must be following the rules quite well! 🙂

      • Gary

        There are several rules I do not follow. And some I very openly oppose. The government has either overlooked me, or they are busy elsewhere.

        • Peter Leh

          please write me as soon as your open resistance and rebellion triggers an arrest. Others are doing it. don’t let them down by being so passe’ and non- aggressive.

          😉

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            I would not worry too much about Gary, Peter: it seems to me that you might be in for a very “long-term” arrest, if you get my drift.

          • Peter Leh

            naw, gary is all bark.

          • Jeff Varney

            And from the looks/sounds/posts of things, Peter is all bite.

    • Layni Shepherd

      what a load of Rubbish, why would Christians get any hearing that is fair under any Federal Circuit or Supreme court. Why would any Religion get a fair hearing ? Our Constitution is clearly a non religious and ALL religious encompassing document, choosing not one over the other. Argue away how Christians get hard done by under the Constitution ? I am all eyes waiting for a reply.

      • Gary

        All laws are either moral or immoral. The rulings of the federal judges that support ssm are immoral. Those judges very likely understand that their rulings are immoral, and they will not consider arguments made by Christians to the contrary. There is nothing in the US Constitution that requires ssm to be legal, which means that the judges motive is outside the Constitution.

    • Asunta1

      You can always just leave the country.

    • Texas Mimi

      God tells us to disobey laws that are contrary to His laws.

  • Jim West

    The only way to avoid participating in an act which one finds morally and ethically unacceptable is to remove oneself from the position which necessitates that participation. On the other hand, once all those who have particular ethics are unavailable to serve in public life, the only one’s remaining will be those who have morals of a different sort. It’s Sophie’s Choice… and society is damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

  • dark477

    at least the Baptists have a leader with a good head on his shoulders.

  • Weary Warrior

    Amazing that the southern Baptists have selected this social justice hireling as their leader. They’ll follow him into apostasy if they don’t wake up.

  • John Mark IB

    so sad and deluded, this is why thank GOD, I bailed out long ago on the lost worldly deceived big money apostate southern Baptist , first Baptist church denomination, who give true Baptists a bad name!! they first compromised on His true Words Preserved for us in English and then it’s all downhill form there entertainment contemporary worship give them what they want not what they need ?? they need Jesus!! but oh well this is the false end times apostates churches of the emergent and contemplative anything goes, so nothing new here, and yes those of us in the faith know, you either stand for The LORD GOD Almighty & His Word and righteousness, or give in to condoning sin, and if we’re truly living the faith then it’s not about if, but when, we will have to make life changing decisions regarding where we will stand, some of us will lose everything, but not lose Jesus/Him, but lose jobs etc., depending on which sector we work in etc., like these judges who will lose their jobs for standing for the real law The Law of GOD and His Truth not man’s stupidities and foolishness, so sad, these so called Christians southern Baptists etc., and it’s always the biggest representatives of the faith that fail, and fall, give in to worldly seduction etc., same as liberty and fallwell, in this case the big name southern Baptists, going the ways of the world, same as the previous guy Richard land, who was capitulating to muslims and mosques etc.,they need hope, here’s the hope, pass it on or go the way of the world and give in, I will stand with Jesus/Him, and give them love and hope, and way of escape, from the hell that they surely will face for their rejection of Him and His truth!! have a blessed day and give them hope!!

    http://faithsaves.net
    http://faithsaves.net/truth-for-gay-friends/
    http://www.pillarandground.org/home/?page_id=36
    http://discoverthebible.org
    http://faithsaves.net/the-book-of-daniel-prophetic-proof-the-bible-is-the-word-of-god/
    http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com

    • http://www.remnantofgod.org/ John1429dotorg

      You do realize that that law of God also includes the 4th Commandment…the same one Baptists say is ok to break, or abolished on the Cross, or changed by Jesus? Food for thought 🙂 Can the pot call the kettle black? Baptist are in just as much apostasy because they pay homage to the popes of Rome by keeping his man made Sabbath holy.

      • John Mark IB

        ah yes, ok my Dear John, well since you asked for it really have not time, but now we’ll go back to the seventh day Adventists cult of law keepers, and followers of the false prophetess self proclaimed ellen g white, founded in the 1800’s with all the other false Christian religions Mormonism seventh day Adventism jehovas false witnesses etc., if your religion is founded on a false prophetess and or prophet then what should you do run! run! run! come out from her!!! ha ha 🙂 really man go ahead and beat yourself ith the man made cult of legalism just like the Pharisees and sadducees, religionists at best, hey look at us we’re special because we keep the Sabbath that the Jews still keep?? really?? please Christ didn’t say salvation was dependant upon me keeping all the law please show me where I have to keep the law ok?? you guys need serious help man, didn’t say that Christians had to become Jews now did it?? no and what day did they meet on?? the first day?? but let’s do the verbal semantics thing ok the seventh day Adventists love to play the works game!! gotta keep that Sabbath or man that’s it, totally destroying and ruining proper scriptural hermeneutics and interpretation, plus they like to hide who they are because they know people are weirded out by the false cult, and plus you reject GOD’S plain teachings on Hell and the soul so just like the jehovas false witnesses a cult man sorry but spade is a spade cult is a cult, and you’re terribly wrong to say that true Baptists have anything to do with the pope or rome itself since we never came out of rome as did most of the protestant religions did, so you’re wrong there too pal!! get your facts straight!! ok so salvation is whatever ellen g white says it is plus works right?? go ahead and keep the so called Sabbath, and think you’ve gained works salvation by doing so!!?? Christ is my Sabbath He is and has done it all, what I could not and can not, could not do, and most certainly you can not, and if you think you can indeed be justified by so called law keeping then you have nullified Christ and His blood shed sacrificial atonement and propitiation on the work of the cross, you need to leave the false cult of ellen g white and realize she was a messed up nut job and has no business being in authority over men and her teachings were just plain false!! it’s not that hard to find out even though they try to hide the truth from you and others, of course I will get nowhere with you now that you know and I know I’m onto you as a seventh day adventist and follower of ellen g white but here’s hope ad truth for you evne in our modern era of technology to expose the false teachings as such you will deny the truth, but my friend I pray for you and all others trapped inside to get born again and find the truth an hope before it’s too late and you realize that your soul is indeed alive eternally and Hell is indeed a fiery existence that is really hotter than hot!!

        the pot calling the kettle black ?? how In what way ?my denomination has never been a part of the false church of rome, and it is a historical fact! everyone knows this about the Baptists faith, never had anything to do with rome ever, show me anything to do with Baptists and rome you can’t and never ever will be able to period so, don’t even try to keep your dog in this fight, he’s lost already, the Baptist faith in historical fact,has been transmitted down the line faithfully and persecuted for the faith from the time of John The Baptist Christ and the Disciples etc., so nice try but no cigar!your faith on the other hand was founded in the 1800’s,by deluded people who claimed Christ came invisibly, and set dates even by a false Baptist named miller etc, same as Charles taze Russell believed in phrenology and stuff, so please you guys have to be able to see better than that??

        May GOD bless you with love joy and peace always in Jesus name amen!! Him and Him alone!!

        no one but Christ alone can save Him and Him alone and none other not ellen g white or any other!! if you’re serious about truth, and I hope you are, then you will seek it, and read the following, and not be afraid to find it, but I hope you will consider the very least that if ellen g white was indeed a false prophetess then what should you do?? same as the jehovas false witnesses the watchtower is a flase prophet organization so what should they do?? run!!

        Christ is my Sabbath rest and in Him can I truly find it and joy and peace!! thank you Jesus!! my Sabbath rest lies in Him!! not in anything I can ever do!!

        Romans 3:20
        King James Version of Romans 3:20.
        Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

        not really here to fight and argue but will definitely stand for the historic true Christian faith from Christ onward!! amen!!

        http://faithsaves.net/bible-truths-for-seventh-day-adventist-friends/

        http://faithsaves.net/seventh-day-adventism-and-saturday-sabbath-keeping

        http://www.biblebelievers.com/SDA/SDA1.html#1-a

        this one will show the apostate false Baptist who should’ve known better William miller as the original founder, sadly he was wrong!!

        http://www.apologeticsindex.org/3100-seventh-day-Adventism

        http://www.alwaysbeready.com/seventh-day-adventism

        http://www.mmoutreachinc.com/seventh_day_adventists/sda_index.html

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs_vZW__6eA

        • http://www.remnantofgod.org/ John1429dotorg

          James 1:26,”If any man among you seem to be religious, and –>>bridleth not his tongue<<–, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

          I believe Christ would have used this opportunity to teach and/or reason versus immediate name calling and talk of cult. I am not SDA, never have been and have no intentions on being one. They are in just as much apostasy as are the Baptists, and I know, because I was born and raised BAPTIST. I just gave you one point, Sunday Sabbath, that the Baptists have adopted from Rome. Shall I give you dozens more?

          Quick question…who was the FIRST Jew? Take your time…

          So let me guess…"once saved, always saved"? All I have to do is believe in Jesus Christ and I am good to go? Hmmm…let's see your Romans 3:20 argument. By the way, if you are going to post a verse claiming the Law of God to be null, void, and abolished, then why not post a verse from Peter? John? James? David? Solomon? Elijah? Abraham? Or better yet…post a verse from JESUS where He declares the Law "done away with".

          You claim it is a sin or a "curse" to keep the Law of God. I'll even add the other verse that you are likely to share next…

          Galatians 3:10, "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them."

          Romans 3:20, "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."

          Seeing how these verses seem to contradict themselves would be the first red flag most Christians would decide warrants further study. For example, in Galatians 3:10 it appears that the first half of the passage is saying those that keep the Law are cursed, yet the second half reveals the exact opposite. Looking at Romans 3:20 we see the same scenario as well. So, what's going on here?

          If you research this using a parallel Bible that shows word for word these passages in both English as well as Greek you will find something quite amazing. There is a word missing in BOTH those verses! the word "EK" is missing. The English translation of that word is "OUTSIDE." So, looking at those two verses again with that word placed where it belongs we see why the devil removed it…

          Galatians 3:10, "For as many as are OUTSIDE of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them."

          Romans 3:20, "Therefore by the deeds OUTSIDE of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."

          Truth is, if one does the "line upon line and precept upon precept" as Isaiah suggested in chapter 28 of his book we would see MANY verses prove both passages were missing a word. My favorite verse that validates all this is from Romans chapter 2…

          Romans 2:13, "For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."

          …doers that you call "works".

          As most Christians are aware, it is "Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:9) Truth is, we do not keep the Law to GET saved, we keep it because WE ARE saved. Works are merely a fruit of the Christian walk. It is what Jesus was talking about when He said in Matthew 7:20, "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." These works of obedience are nothing more than the Holy Spirit doing what He promised long ago. In Jeremiah 31:33 it was prophesied about the New Testament Christian church that, "…this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people."

          Back when the Gentiles were first hearing about Jesus Christ as Messiah, many of them started to keep the Law without ever being taught to do so. In Romans 2:14-15 it is written, "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another"

          Bottom line is this when it comes to the "work" of keeping the Law of God. In James 2:24-26 it is plainly written, "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

          If you still think Galatians 3:10 and Romans 3:20 are saying you cannot be justified by keeping the Law of God, then you need to rip out a LOT of verses that say otherwise.

          • John Mark IB

            not gonna waste my time fighting with you

            when in the past I have been nice to you,

            short memory lapse here I guess, you came across and attacked me, so I felt I needed to

            counter and so

            I defended myself and now you continue the attacks, ok, you can enjoy yourself and be the winner in your own Jewish mind if that makes you the better Jesus man?? as you seem to be wanting to negatively imply against me, that’s cool, no problem, you win ok good for you, time to move on here I get better treatment from certain of the atheists and so called agnostics crowds, but that’s cool,

            nice, uh huh ok, and you’re a perfected Torah observant Jew who criticizes me, for calling out what I see as cult like, and seventh day Adventist like, when you attack your hated Baptist upbringing? and extol the virtues of living a law based life and then are saved as a result of that?? and are saved on that basis right?? by being a proper Sabbath keeper?? wow really?? you started the negativity by attacking my faith when you A) know nothing about me except what I posted above on how I used to be a part of the southern Baptist group ok, and B) nice faith in The Word

            well then since you’re such a great biblical scholar and believer in GOD’S Preserved Words then you are now calling His Word corrupted by satan, I agree and disagree with some of your comments, maybe I took the initial attacks too hard but you were negative towards me, without cause!! you fired at me!! so then it’s onto your interpretation of His Word, which I again agree and disagree, yes if one is truly born again then they have a true change in their ways of living which equates to holy living by the empowerment of His Holy Spirit, and as such then He is The Living Torah in us and so if that’s what you mean then fine but Christians were not called to be Jews or were they? and as for your hatred and continued attacks on the Baptist faith you still have it all sadly wrong but this is understandable if you had a bad experience in life with your Baptist upbringing sorry about that but the Baptists have never and will never follow rome period so this is just terribly false and very much Adventist type verbal semantics at best, but I get your hatred of the Baptists loud and clear and maybe anything Christian at that seems like , and if you seem to think the oft abuse stupidity people use to justify sinful lost behavior once saved always saved ??? well His Word clearly says it’s His Salvation not mine or yours for that matter, maybe yours but not mine here’s why

            His Salvation His Word His Hands!!

            28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

            29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.

            Sorry ‘ll stick with GOD’S Preserved Words in English which you’ll be sure to come back and school me on mush to the liking of the MVO crowds multiple version only crowds who hate the KJV as you would seem to as well, since you’re now a completed law keeping saved by the law and works Jew and a Baptist hater to boot!!

            Gal 2:16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

            let me know when you can keep the law and be saved ok without The absolute One who Did and only One who Can Ever Has Kept it all totally and fully Christ himself ok!!??
            there is a thing such as rightly dividing the Word, but well gee, I guess you win, you got me good man!! apostate Independent Baptist that I am, oh boy, man am I ever lost, gee whiz o mighty one thanks ever so much for schooling me on Jewish Torah and the great mighty Sabbath keeper!! amen funny how you started out with all the negativity attacking me and my comments calling me out and then tried to tell me well you could’ve been more Christ like?? ok hey you take care now hope you find the truth here’s hope may you find it and then be born again and experience His salvation !!
            may the LORD GOD Almighty bless you and yours with love joy and peace always in Jesus name amen!!
            http://faithsaves.net
            see the part you said be more like teaching a truth would’ve sufficed that was the good part of what you said maybe you’re right in that regard so maybe take you’re own advice and try to be more Christ like maybe you’d be better off fighting the real enemies of the Cross rather than someone who cares about the lost but oh well have a blessed day and week. be well be safe! 🙂
            we’ll just agree that we disagree and if you feel good about yourself for thinking you’ve won a debate then that’s good for you too, 🙂 enjoy with grace and peace in Jesus name amen!!
            Shabbat shalom!! for this Friday, you see I too once tried to worship as a Jew it was pretty cool they were great folks, it was a Messianic thing so with all due respect Shabbat Shalom!! and Shalom Aleichem, no hard feelings from my side! 🙂 I tried to keep the law too and well let’s just say in my self perfection attempts it was a miserable failure without Christ to be The Torah for me, so it was like beating yourself over and over and getting nowhere no assurance at all!! never good enough !!! etc., so maybe you can identify from more of what I’ve been thru compared to your (what I perceive to be as) hatred of
            Baptists and Christians?? I hate only satan and his minions and those false religions etc., that take people to hell!! have a great day 🙂

          • http://www.remnantofgod.org/ John1429dotorg

            I do not know where you are going with this whole “me attacking you thing”. I simply told you that Baptists have embraced lots of Roman heresy. And its not me saying it…its your leaders: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xl9yM7mT0Wc&list=UUpITe256E0HOmw-KqWYWDhw

            I also don’t know where you are going with this “I am a Jew”. Do you even know what a Jew is? Or do you know what you have been taught? Jesus NEVER identified Himself as a Jew. In fact, He was ALWAYS at odds with Jewry. I have no interest in “Torah” or any of this Shabbot Shalom you are trying to pass on me. I simply believe the Law of God (The Ten Commandments) are ETERNALLY binding, and this truth is present in the ENTIRE Bible, even Paul whom the entire western world seems to take out of context as not to break their church “creed”. No man can keep them without Jesus. So if you claim I am trying to keep the Law to get saved…I can’t, so that would be a lie. You do not keep the Law to get saved, you keep the Law because you are saved. Being born in Israel has nothing to do with salvation neither is keeping the Commandments “legalistic” as ye claim. If anything SUNDAY is legalist…how many STORES are CLOSED on Sundays?

            But really brother its fine. I still love you as I love all. Now if want to reason and share some Scripture instead of links then I am game. 🙂

          • John Mark IB

            Dear John1429, hopefully we can resolve things on a positive and peaceful note as I’ve liked your comments in previous posts here in this site you have great wisdom so there’s another one for you ok 🙂

            ok no harm no foul, I’ll get to the torah or law issue in a second, you did give off a very much Adventist theology view in your keeping the Sabbath thing so, sorry if I get a bit heated at times I’m not a good debater, and so probably get somewhat flustered over what to say and or how to debate, and or give my point,, but I do Know what and Him in Whom I believe in The LORD Jesus Christ, even if I can’t save the World, it’s not me but Him who does thankfully, you did make a false accusation of me, I believe, or of my supposed leaders?? mistakenly I believe too, or maybe you meant it in another way, but your video actually shows what the Baptists historically have always believed, and that is that rome is the whore of the book of Revelation, and the pope was an antichrist, if not they at least thought he was the anti Christ albeit mistakenly, as the real last times satanic Anti Christ, will come after the rapture of the bride and during the final 7 years of Daniel 70weeks!! but please watch the neat little video because you actually said that my supposed leaders? of whom, (I have no idea how you really know so much about me other than I’ve told you) and you can read my profile as an Independent no affiliation with the false council of rome churches etc., or southern Baptists or fundamental groups etc.,) you say they follow the pope, my friend this is a silly and very gross error with all due respect, and not meaning to be disrespectful of you, but never has any true historical, at least old times, old school true Baptist ever followed rome or the pope, never , and you can’t show me one example, but even if you could, myself and all my true Baptist brethren know, and we believe we have the historical evidences on our side, and we have always been a true remnant of faithful believers who have been hunted down by the roman Jesuits and Dominicans and that establishment as have the Jews, the roman system has burned and killed tortured and destroyed us simply for wanting the Scriptures in our hands in our languages etc., this is historical fact and you do know this, and always to the contrary we believe that the roman false church has and it’s a historical fact that they have killed the Baptists in name of their roman leaders etc., so sam as the eraly believers the disciples etc., who were hunted and killed martyred for their faith in Christ same here, ok now you may be onto something because in Ezekiel the later chapters 44-48? somewhere lists the millennial temple which is ordained of GOD and will have the restored animal sacrifices so this is very interesting and the law itself is of course perfect GOD’S Law is perfect, still have no idea what religion or belief system you are or who or what you identify with that’s your secret but whatever you did come across wrong in your very hisrorically mistaken and inaccurate portrayal of historic Baptist faith, which is the only one to not have come from out of rome we never protested and never reformed from out of rome ever, unlike other groups Methodist, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, etc., Lutheran, we never did my friend so you got the wrong guy here ha ha, sorry, I get your point and it’s well made and you may very well be right on some things but I’m not required to become a type of Jew and keep the Sabbath like the Jews do, and Jesus was a Jew you might be anti Jew I really have no idea you’re not being open as to your denomination or religious affiliation etc. which would tell me what I need to know ?? I’ve been in confrontation and attacked by a black girl who I later figured out was a supposed black Hebrew Israelite faith radical who blasphemed my Jesus as a pagan name etc., so what are you or what is your affiliation etc. if you don’t mind?? you asked me who as the first Jew well the first Hebrew was called out as Abram or Abraham Hebrew or Ivri, the word Jew comes from Judah one of the tribes so one of his descendants if I’m not mistaken?? Jacob who was also called Israel, and fathered the 12 tribes of his name Israel, had a son whose name was Judah right which means Praised? or Yehudah? GOD be praised? but there was some very amazing stuff going on for poor Leah who GOD blessed as the one who Jacob really didn’t care as much for as for Rachel who was more beautiful to the eyes, right so what’s your point in all this??

            and or where are you trying to go with that line??, ok will leave off here, and with that,

            and you too be blessed may we both be about the real business of pleasing our LORD, who has told us to busy about doing His business, and giving the life changing message of eternal life

            anyways may the LORD GOD Almighty the LORD GOD of Israel bless you with love joy and peace always in Jesus name amen

            I need to be about the business of giving out the good news to all and usually do so with the following, you know me by now, I try to give them hope with the following

            http://faithsaves.net

            http://faithsaves.net/daniel-proof-bible/

            www.http://pillarandground.org/home/?page_id=36

            http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com

            http://discoverthebible.org

            http://www.baptist-books.com/category/TRA.html

    • Texas Mimi

      AMEN, John!

  • http://ireport.cnn.com/people/Siddique Aasi Tahir Siddique

    I agree in part to follow law and the resignation.

    • WorldGoneCrazy

      It’s a difficult position these Christians have been put in. Should they resign or should they disobey? Obviously, no true Christian could obey and issue gay “marriage” licenses. I can see why resigning might be a reasonable thing to do.

      • thoughtsfromflorida

        No Christian is forced to disobey. Each Christian is free to live their life according to their beliefs.

        • WorldGoneCrazy

          “No Christian is forced to disobey.”

          Not and keep their job. The “tolerant” ones will not allow them to hold their deeply held religious convictions and keep their job – that is all I was saying.

          “Each Christian is free to live their life according to their beliefs.” Until their beliefs come into conflict with the Gaystapo. Then, their lives must change to affirm the unaffirmable, under a Christian view, or to resign from the public square. Unlike the religious views of a-theists and pagans.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “Not and keep their job. The “tolerant” ones will not allow them to hold their deeply held religious convictions and keep their job – that is all I was saying.”

            That is hyperbole. Please cite one person who has lost their job for no other reason than they hold to certain religious beliefs.

            “Then, their lives must change to affirm the unaffirmable, under a Christian view, or to resign from the public square.”

            Again, hyperbole. Please cite on instance of that happening.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Are you insane, Sir? Have you been loving under a rock?

            Elane Photography, Sweet Cakes by Melissa, Masterpiece Cakeshop, Arlene’s Flowers, a Christian psychologist in Georgia, fertitlity doctors in California, Catholic Charities of Boston, etc. All of these folks were either fired or fined or had their businesses more or less shut down, not because they refused to serve gay people, but because they refused to participate, via time and talents, in the gay lifestyle. Even the original Gestapo knew what they were doing, why do you Gaystapo folks not just admit it – guilty feelings?!? Indeed, some do: they admit that stomping on religious freedoms is a virtue. Embrace you fascism, Thoughts! 🙂

            https://winteryknight.wordpress.com/2013/08/02/ryan-anderson-explains-how-gay-marriage-is-already-infringing-on-religious-liberty/

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “All of these folks were either fired or fined or had their businesses more or less shut down, not because they refused to serve gay people, but because they refused to participate, via time and talents, in the gay lifestyle.”

            That is not true. Businesses were fined because they broke the law. Do you believe that some people should be above the law?

            No action by any governmental body ordered a business to shut down. Businesses shut down because they no longer have a sufficient customer base to allow them to continue to operate.

            “Even the original Gestapo knew what they were doing”

            When you make references to Nazis, your arguments lose all credibility.

            “Embrace you fascism, Thoughts! :-)”

            What “fascism” are you referring to?

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “That is not true. Businesses were fined because they broke the law.”

            Just like the many courageous Christians who broke the law when it said that slavery was legal and they had to return runaway slaves to you plantation owners.

            “No action by any governmental body ordered a business to shut down. Businesses shut down because they no longer have a sufficient customer base to allow them to continue to operate.”

            Seriously, have you lost it?!? Are you the poster child for liberal fascism apologists?!? Here is more proof, since Google is above your pay grade: http://www.wnd.com/2015/02/judge-authorizes-personal-ruin-for-florist/

            “When you make references to Nazis, your arguments lose all credibility.”

            Except in your case, when it fits.

            “What “fascism” are you referring to?”

            Judicial tyranny, as in the above link and a simple Google search will provide you. You guys are remarkably like the monkey courts of the Nazis, but you just can’t see it. God bless you, Thoughts!

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “Just like the many courageous Christians who broke the law when it said that slavery was legal and they had to return runaway slaves to you plantation owners.”

            Similar only in that laws were broken. Other than that, not similar at all.

            “Here is more proof, since Google is above your pay grade: http://www.wnd.com/2015/02/jud…”

            So let’s examine that article and see what “proof” is there:

            The ruling states that the owner is liable. That is NOT a ruling stating that the owner must shut her business down. She is free to continue to operate her business if she is able to pay the fines/costs that have been awarded in the case, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER BUSINESS THAT LOSES A CASE IN COURT AND IS RESPONSIBLE FOR FINES/COSTS. She is not exempt from that process based solely upon her religious beliefs.

            Hopefully, as any smart business person knows, she has structured the company as an LLC and has liability insurance. If she did/does not, and thus the payment of this award results in her being financially harmed, then lesson learned. But, no, there was no ruling which stated that she was required to shut her business.

            As to the rest of the article:

            “A judge in Washington on Wednesday authorized the “personal ruin” of a florist”

            False. The judge did no such thing. There is nothing in the ruling which says: “I authorize the personal ruin….”

            “whose Christian faith prevented her”

            Her faith did not prevent her. She chose not to participate. If her “faith” prevented her from providing a cake for this wedding, then, of course, she must have inquired of all opposite gender couples seeking marriage if either of the couple had previously been divorced for reasons other than adultery, and then turned that business down. Or if a cake was ordered for an engagement party, surely she inquired if the couple were having sexual relations outside of marriage and then turned that business down. Or if a cake were ordered for a baby shower, surely she inquired as to whether the mother-to-be was married, and refused the order if not. Or she inquired as to the religious beliefs of every couple and if they were saying their vows to any god other than the Christian god, she turned that business away.

            Unless she was doing all those things, then it was not her faith that prevented her….it was her prejudice.

            “The message of these rulings is unmistakable: The government will bring about your personal and professional ruin if you don’t help celebrate same-sex marriage,”

            A flat out lie. No one is required to celebrate anything they don’t care to. In addition, no person is forced to own a business, and no business owner is forced to offer services which, if offered to gay people, would violate their religious beliefs. There are plenty of people who do not celebrate same-sex marriage who have not faced “personal and professional ruin”. Spare me the false persecution complex.

            “Laws that are supposed to prohibit discrimination might sound good, but the government has begun to use these laws to hurt people – to force them to conform and to silence and punish them if they don’t violate their religious beliefs on marriage.”

            Again with he hyperbole. No person is forced to open a business, therefore no one is “forced” to conform, no one has been silenced, and no one is required to violate their religious beliefs on marriage. If someone believes so strongly regarding same gender marriage then they would be wise to NOT OFFER THINGS THAT DEAL WITH WEDDINGS. DUH. There is no “I want to do what I want to do and if it violates the law I get to use my religious beliefs as an excuse” clause in the law.

            “and the government still protected the freedom to have those differences”

            The government does protect those rights.

            “Instead, the government is coming after me and everything I have just because I won’t live my life the way the state says I should.”

            Ridiculous and false. She is free to live her life as she cares to. What she is not free to do is to CHOOSE to open a business BEING FULLY AWARE OF THE LAWS REGARDING BUSINESS, then CHOOSE to offer a product that SHE KNOWS may be in conflict with her religious belief, and then whine about it when she is held accountable to a law she CHOSE to break.

            “I just want the freedom to live and work faithfully and according to what God says about marriage without fear of punishment.”

            Well then she may want to move to a country where the laws are based upon the Christian faith. She has great autonomy in many ways regarding how she operates her business. With that said, she KNEW what the laws were when she CHOSE to open a business and when she CHOSE to offer certain products. Now, despite that knowledge and those choices, she wants to be exempted from the law and apparently believes that Christians are above the law.

            “Robert Ingersoll sued Stutzman for “acting consistently with her faith,”

            An outright lie. She was sued for violating the law.

            ““A government that tells you what you can’t say is bad enough, but a government that tells you what you must say is terrifying,”

            Another lie. The government never did either of those things.

            ““The lesson from the court’s decisions is that you put your home, your family business, and your life savings at risk by daring to defy a government mandate that forces you to promote views you believe are wrong.”

            Another lie. No one is being forced to promote view they believe are wrong. A person is free to not open a business, and a person is free to not offer products that would place them in a position they do not care to be in. There is no “forcing”.

            ““The court somehow concluded that forcing Barronelle to create expression against her will does not violate her free speech and free exercise rights under the state and federal constitutions,”

            Another lie. Barronelle was not “forced” to create any expression.

            There is virtually not a single paragraph in that article that does not contain an exaggeration or out-and-out lie. I wonder how the author reconciles such actions with their supposed faith in Christianity?

            “Judicial tyranny”

            How is it “tyrannical” for a member of the judiciary to rule on case before the court? Is it only “tyrannical” when the ruling is one you disagree with?

            “You guys”

            I’m not a member of the judiciary.

            Thanks for the blessing – back at ya.

  • wayne

    Marriage belongs to the states; Marriage discrimination belongs to the 14th amendment.

    • Steve Follent

      Marriage belongs to God . God is allowed to discriminate on morral grounds

      • dark477

        marriage belongs to the people. they can’t discriminate.

      • Gary

        God allows Christians to discriminate too. We are commanded to oppose evil.

        • Ambulance Chaser

          Okay, there, Mr. Prophet: What does the Bible say about gay civil marriage?

          • Gary

            God does not allow ssm.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Where? Where does it say that? Specifically, where does Jesus talk about what civil marriage has to be?

      • thoughtsfromflorida

        Civil marriage does not belong to God. It is a man-made institution.

        • Gary

          God has the authority to define marriage and morality. Nothing you can do to change that.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            Man has the ability to define civil marriage. Nothing you can do to change that.

      • wayne

        A God who would discriminate against his creatures is a God not worth my time of day…

  • John Mark IB

    some areas have so called sensitivity training classes, to try to reprogram your thoughts about certain issues in govt. service etc., like if you have racial and so called homosexual preference or sexual orientation bias against them etc., and stuff they will force you to attend these classes, to try to “straighten you out” so to speak, no pun intended, but my issue is who gives mankind humans the right to think they can change your heart by these classes? or how do they know what’s inside your heart? and do they really think a guy’s gonna change his mind if he’s a hater of races or homosexuals etc.,?? they can’t change the heart from the outside in only GOD can change the heart, but they need Jesus period only He can give true change for their own good and betterment of all,

  • Delle Elsom

    Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. Acts 5:29

    • Martha Howard

      Amen

    • dark477

      then you shouldn’t be in any position the enforces the law.

    • PlatformOfTruth

      From which fairy tale is this from? ……yea don’t preach that, government wants no part of it

  • Herbert Stahl

    Russel Moore is a bisexual himself. If the judge is to rule against gay marriages. That would mean in order for him to get married to another gay guy! He would have to leave his flock and move outta Alabama!

    • Fundisi

      How do you know he is bisexual? I may have missed this news.

  • Herbert Stahl

    The southern church is a huge money machine. They love ce money. And it doesn’t matter if it comes from a gay couple. Money’s money. It doesn’t matter in what colour a change it comes in. Isn’t that right mister southern fucked preacher

  • Fundisi

    As James grimes has noted and I wholeheartedly agree, virtually all of the man-organized Christian Church today is thoroughly apostate, they are all part of the End Times false Church, they have spiritually prostituted themselves, as God calls them they are all spiritual whores, they will, in league with anti-Christ political leaders lead most of this world into hell. They have all sold their souls, “come out from among them Christians and be ye separate.”

    The true Church, the Body of Christ will be driven further and further underground, much like the Anabaptists in the old atheist Soviet Union, Bible believing Christians must be silenced, their faith criminalized, they must become outcasts, they must and will suffer persecution like never before in human history.

    Homosexuality, gay marriage and secular humanism, while mostly represented in America by liberalism, have together become a terrible moral/spiritual cancer on earth, they are metastasizing, becoming more virulent. As in ancient Rome and Greece, when sexual immorality was officially sanctioned, winked at, approved, their empires began to crumble, the last symptom just before their death was the rise of homosexuality, it is the sign a culture, a people that are in their death throes, it is a death sentence. We have brought it on ourselves, too few had the courage to say the Liberal American Government had no clothes, too few could resist all the handouts and most embraced the liberal dogma of no spiritual, no moral accountability. That is what happens when you kick God out of the public square, when God is said to be dead and when we die we just cease to exist (evolution), what is left to restrain man fom every evil under the Sun, no fear of God and it is eat, drink, fornicate and be gay, for tomorrow we just die.

    • thoughtsfromflorida

      “As in ancient Rome and Greece, when sexual immorality was officially sanctioned, winked at, approved, their empires began to crumble, the last symptom just before their death was the rise of homosexuality”

      You really need a better understanding of history, as yours is completely false. At the time of the fall of the Roman empire, Christianity was the official religion of the Roman Empire. Homosexuality was not sanctioned, “winked at”, nor approved. The significant event that occurred most closely to the fall of the Roman empire was making Christianity the official religion. With that said, it would be without merit to suggest that change was the cause of the fall of the empire. The empire fell because it became too large to effectively defend from its enemies.

      “That is what happens when you kick God out of the public square, when God is said to be dead and when we die we just cease to exist (evolution), what is left to restrain man from every evil under the Sun, no fear of God and it is eat, drink, fornicate and be gay, for tomorrow we just die.”

      To suggest that the only reason people choose to behave in a civil manner is because of a fear of spending eternity in hell, is simply without merit. That may be the reason you restrain your behavior, but it is certainly not true of all people.

      It’s unfortunate that you choose to be a productive member of society based solely upon fear of punishment.

  • Eli Hernandez

    Certainly until it is the Supreme Court that has ruled on the issue I think Judge Moore and Alabama Governor Bentley are on firm moral and legal ground in opposing the District Court’s Opinion on the grounds of the Tenth and Eleventh Amendment. If this was not a matter that was going to the Supreme Court I might be of different mind and agree with President Moore, but for now the Alabama Magistrate is standing firm.

    • Asunta1

      They are on no legal grounds whatsoever. And you got your amendments mixed up. Not that it matters since you have no understanding of either.

    • Ambulance Chaser

      Why does the Supreme Court have to rule? The fedreal circuit that covers Alabama already ruled.

  • tyler

    i’m surprised that christians spend so much time worrying about anything related to gay people. If you call yourselves followers of christ, then why not follow what he said on the topic:
    ABSOLUTELY NOTHING

    • Fundisi

      That is wrong! It was Christ, by His Spirit, talking to the Church in Romans One with a very strong condemnation of homosexuality.

      • tyler

        Quote please? There isn’t one

        • Fundisi

          Quote what?

          • tyler

            of jesus saying anything at all about homosexuality

          • Gary

            Can you quote what Jesus said about marriage?

          • tyler

            please answer my simple question I asked – where did Jesus ever say anything about, or against gays? the answer is never – but some of you on here make it your life’s work to oppose this issue. if there is a god, i think he’ll scold you by telling you that you were wasting your time on earth

          • Fundisi

            Romans One: “24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.”

            While the word homosexual is not used, homosexual conduct is clearly described and condemned.

            I Corinthians 6: “9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous2 will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,”

            I can give many more!

          • tyler

            none of those are quotes from Jesus

          • Fundisi

            Yes they are! Jesus is the living Word of God, every word in the Bible – EVERY WORD, was inspired by Him through His Spirit, they are the very words of Christ, by His Spirit, through His chosen vessels. These are the very words of Jesus.

          • tyler

            even the old testament with condoning slavery and genocide and stoning women and children? i thought you concentrated more on the new testament. those are things that are hard for me to wrap my head around.

          • Fundisi

            First, yes every word, Old and New Testament.

            It is too difficult to explain in any depth here, but the Laws of Moses were applicable to only the Jews, they were for our admonition, they were to show us God’s hatred of sin and the utter futility of trying to earn salvation by our works, all pointing to Christ and salvation as a gift of God’s Grace, wherein the Law was no longer need as our master, but that God wrote His Laws in our hearts and where mercy could reign.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            How convenient.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            More accurately – You have chosen to believe that Jesus is the living word of God. You are in position to state that as fact. That’s why it’s called “faith”.

          • Fundisi

            Well it is far better to have faith, than to take your path in denying Him and His Word.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            Actually, he did. Matthew 19:12. Jesus says that homosexuals are born as homosexuals. A little tidbit that some Christians find it very convenient to overlook or attempt to explain away.

    • Gary

      What did Jesus say about marriage? Did he say that a man could marry a man?

      • thoughtsfromflorida

        Did he say a man could not marry a man?

        • Gary

          Yes. Any marriage God approves of has both a husband and a wife, which is only possible if a man marries a woman.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            Quote from the bible where God specifically says that a man may not marry a man?

          • Gary

            God only has to say what he accepts as a marriage. He does not have to state that he rejects all of the alternatives that people might want.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            You said that he said it. Now you are saying he didn’t say it.

            How do you reconcile lying with your supposed faith in Christianity?

          • Gary

            God defined marriage as the union of a man and a woman as husband and wife. It is not necessary that he should have to then say he opposes any other arrangement as marriage.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “It is not necessary that he should have to then say he opposes any other arrangement as marriage.”

            You were the one who said that he specifically stated that a man could not marry a man, but then were unable to provide any such reference. In other words, you lied.

      • tyler

        he also never said that you should use computers, or drive cars.
        gasp!

      • tyler

        he also never said that you are allowed to eat bananas, have cats and dogs as pets, or watch TV

    • http://victimsofgaybullying.wordpress.com/ JBenning

      tyler is a queer using queer talking points all designed to silence anyone that is against their chosen perversion.

      • dark477

        piss off

        • Jeff Varney

          You first, Darky!

          • PlatformOfTruth

            “Perversion” where was tyler showing this? jbenning and Jeff, both of you are so misguided.

      • Taussig

        what a whiny baby! nobody is trying to silence you….christian persecution complex at best.

        • http://victimsofgaybullying.wordpress.com/ JBenning

          As I told someone else: You
          hate the truth being told don’t you? Everything you do is done to silence any
          and all opposition to your chosen perversion. You know it, I know it, everyone
          else knows it. Lying does not improve your chances.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            I’m curious, how do you reconcile your supposed faith in Christianity with your lying?

          • http://victimsofgaybullying.wordpress.com/ JBenning

            Not lying. You sure as hell are and you know it. You have no faith in anything but yourself. Not the brightest bulb in the ole shed but thanks for trying to be bright. It’s thoughtful.

          • tyler

            you lied by calling me a ‘queer’.

            That’s not really nice. I’m in fact straighter than the pole upon which your mom dances.

          • http://victimsofgaybullying.wordpress.com/ JBenning

            Poor poor baby. You’ve already proven my point a long time ago. Oh, by the way, my mother was a Godly woman. Yours? Must have been a pole dancer……since you liked to use it. Nice try and thanks again.

          • tyler

            Nobody would ever call your comments ‘Christian-ly’.

            Nice ‘I know you are but what am I’ response.

          • http://victimsofgaybullying.wordpress.com/ JBenning

            Damn tyler……..that made as much sense as a screen door hatch on submarine. If brains were gas, you don’t have enough to start the damn car let alone get the thing out of the garage. Best you stop while you are still ahead.

          • tyler

            that joke was funnier when my great grandfather told it 30 years ago.

          • tyler

            JBenning just admitted to me in private that he is queer. He cried a lot and said that he hopes to repent.

          • http://victimsofgaybullying.wordpress.com/ JBenning

            Sadly, here (tyler) is a little queer who just can’t get a handle on life. He has to resort to saying others are a queer to make himself feel important. tyler, I wouldn’t step that f’ing low. Being a queer is a death sentence hand signed with your own handwriting…something you and the rest of the buttwipes have yet to figure out. Truthfully, you are a sad example of the part of the human race that lives in the sewers because real life hurts too much. I have nothing to cry about but I have a feeling you do and quite simply you point fingers at others when you have been outed. Nice try meatball. Better luck next time. Oh, btw, queers and a lot in common with the uneducated blacks and muslims………….they all piss and whine when not given what they want. Still want to stay in the sewer of life little one? Well, your choice. You choose to be queer and live like a sewer rat. Getting out may be a biotch but it can be done. Thats up to you.

          • tyler

            haha. I’m not surprised by your comment. I just wanted to see your reaction if i called you exactly what you called me. Looks like I touched a nerve. I get it though – you can incorrectly call someone else queer, but not the other way around.
            You are the definition of a hypocrite.

            Have a great evening!

          • tyler

            Nothing but pure Christian love here.

          • tyler

            by-the-way Joseph, great hate-websites you’ve got there. They look like they were made 20 years ago by a 10 year old kid.

            I will show this to my friends once I stop laughing. You’re welcome for your site getting some traffic.

            I bet your God is pleased that you spend your days hating people.

            one of Joseph’s kind, Christian loving websites:
            victimsofgaybullying.wordpress.com

          • tyler

            check out this Christian love here in this comment.

          • tyler

            here it is folks, pure christian love

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            What am I lying about?

            “You have no faith in anything but yourself.”

            That is a lie. I have a very strong faith in God.

            “Not the brightest bulb in the ole shed”

            How so?

      • tyler

        Thanks for trying to blindly jump to conclusions, but I’m straight, married with 2 children, thank you very much.

        It sounds like you’re angry that there doesn’t exist a quote from Jesus about gays.

      • thoughtsfromflorida

        “all designed to silence anyone ”

        Oh, please, spare me the false persecution complex. No one is being silenced.

        • http://victimsofgaybullying.wordpress.com/ JBenning

          You hate the truth being told don’t you? Everything you do is done to silence any and all opposition to your chosen perversion. You know it, I know it, everyone else knows it. Lying does not improve your chances.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “You hate the truth being told don’t you? ”

            Quite the opposite. I strongly support the truth being told.

            “Everything you do is done to silence any and all opposition to your chosen perversion.”

            Well yesterday I mowed the lawn, emptied the dishwasher, made dinner, and watched TV. Please indicate how those activities that I did were done to “silence any and all opposition”.

            I have no desire to silence anyone. People are, and should be, free to expression their opposition to, or support of, whatever they care to.

            “Lying does not improve your chances.”

            What lies have I told?

            You may want to consider following your own advice, since you are quite prone to lying.

          • http://victimsofgaybullying.wordpress.com/ JBenning

            Oh wow! Sweeping the trash under rug will only leave a large hump in the rug. You are plainly too stupid to talk to. You know the truth about queerdom so again, lying about it does not and will not make you sound intelligent. Oh, and we are not talking about watching tv or mowing the lawn. Please try again. Queers don’t want any opposition to their chosen perversion and I have learned their supporters are not any better. Thanks for trying.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            So you can’t point to any lies I have told. Rather, that was simply another case of your lying and bearing false witness. Got it. Thanks for the confirmation.

            “Oh, and we are not talking about watching tv or mowing the lawn.”

            You said: “Everything you do is done to silence any and all opposition to your chosen perversion.” Watching TV and mowing the lawn are part of “everything”. So if you aren’t talking about those things, then your statement is yet another example of your lying.

            “You are plainly too stupid to talk to.”

            What are examples of things I have said that would lead you to make that statement?

            “Queers don’t want any opposition to their chosen perversion and I have learned their supporters are not any better.”

            As I clearly stated above, I have no desire to silence anyone. People are, and should be, free to expression their opposition to, or support of, whatever they care to. For you to continue to put forth a baseless accusation shows how seriously flawed your character is.

      • tyler

        Hey everybody, another Christian loving his neighbor and being kind.
        This has now denegrated to gradeschool name-calling.
        I hope you get rewarded for that in heaven.

      • tyler

        hey i saw that they flagged and removed your racist rant where you said blacks are lazy just like gays. good luck in life. i’m sure you’ll go very far.

        thanks for the christian love you’re showing.

  • gregkliebigsr

    IF YOU PROMOTE THE LIFE OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD JESUS; THEN I WILL SUPPORT YOU !

    IF YOU GO AGAINST THE LORD JESUS’ TEACHINGS AND HIS HOLY WORD , THE BIBLE THEN I WILL OPPOSE YOU IN EVERY WAY !

    EPHESIANS 5: 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather REPROVE [them].

    “Thou shalt NOT lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination!” says the LORD GOD.
    LEVITICUS18: 22. SO, LET ME MAKE IT PERFECTLY CLEAR , HOMOSEXUALITY IS AN ABOMINATION!!!

    ACTS 17: 30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

    31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

    JOHN 3: 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life;
    but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    • Peter Leh
    • Peter Leh

      http://www.alternet.org/belief/10-things-traditional-christians-got-terribly-wrong

      10) Marriage equality. The religious right is still
      fighting like it’s not obvious that they’re wrong on this one. The tide
      is shifting so fast it’s quickly becoming apparent that this issue, like
      segregation, is going to be one where they’ll be pretending they didn’t
      fight so hard for the side of wrong in a few decades. The majority of Americans now support same-sex marriage. Illinois is becoming the 15th state to authorize it.
      The momentum is in the direction of justice, and as gay rights
      proponents said from the beginning, Christian conservatives are, as with
      most things, on the wrong side of history.

    • Texas Mimi

      Thank you for speaking the truth of the Word of God. From some of the postings, it’s obvious that there are a lot of unbelievers here. I pray for their eyes to be opened before it’s too late, and that time is getting closer as so much prophecy Jesus spoke of the latter days is coming to pass. God bless you!

      • PlatformOfTruth

        Again, reaidng from a book of fairy tales. Keep your book out of this countries government.

  • gregkliebigsr

    JESUS CHRIST, CAME TO SAVE THE LOST!! JESUS CHRIST, BECAME THE SPOTLESS LAMB OF GOD AND TOOK YOUR SIN!! JESUS CHRIST , GAVE HIS LIFE SO YOU COULD LIVE ETERNALLY!

     

    Romans 10: 13. For WHOSOEVER shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be SAVED.

    JESUS CHRIST , DEFEATED SIN, satan, DEATH AND THE GRAVE!!!! THEN , ON THE THIRD DAY JESUS CHRIST, CAME UP OUT OF THE GRAVE BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY GHOST AND ASCENDED TO HEAVEN AND POURED HIS BLOOD OUT ON THE MERCY SEAT( ALTAR) OF JESUS CHRIST, BEFORE GOD THE FATHER,

    TO PAY, YOUR RANSOM!!

    ONLY THE LORD JESUS IS THE ONE WHO DEALT WITH HUMANITIE’S SINS; OF WHICH HOMOSEXUALITY IS ONE !
    THIS SINFUL ABOMINATION TOO CAN BE WASHED , CLEANSED AND FORGIVEN BY HIS PRECIOUS BLOOD !!

  • M Diaz

    matthew 5:40
    if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

    a christian fighting for their right to discriminate is a bad bad christian, according to the sermon on the mount…

    the level of arrogance is astonishing…they pray in public, when jesus said prayer should be done in the closet, they infringe on the rights of others when Jesus said to give to those that ask and to walk a mile with them…

    it’s no wonder more and more churches are closing their doors… 😀

    • Fundisi

      The atheist has the arrogance of thinking he understands God’s Word and should dictate what a Christian should or should not do, it would be amusing if not so pathetic.

      • M Diaz

        “he atheist has the arrogance of thinking he understands God’s Word”

        wow the level of stupid just hit a record low..are you capable of understanding the position of questioning assertions…?

        as the position i hold questions the assertion with the request for you to demonstrate how you came to that conclusion…and i am still waiting for that..you have no time to prove your assertion but you have plenty of time to write out hostile comments…pathetic

        “and should dictate what a Christian should or should not do”

        yea it’s embarrassing for christians to be told by non christians how christians should behave according to their buybull

        • Fundisi

          You are making assertions based on gross ignorance of God’s Word, you are not spiritually qualified to judge these matters.

          What you and I fear far too many Christians fail to understand is that these admonitions by the Lord were designed to demonstrate the utter impossibility of one by their willful acts to ever save themselves, rather they were designed to show the utter futility of being all that God calls us to be, by any self effort of any kind.

          Praying in a closet is also a false interpretation of what Jesus was teaching, as he and all His disciples prayed in public often. It is also false to assert any idea that walking two miles when asked to walk a single mile, was NEVER to walk with sinners in their sins, NEVER to walk with them in anything contrary to God’s Word.

          That is what I mean, you have not His Spirit and cannot ever hope to understand what the Spirit is saying to the Church. That is arrogance, thinking as an atheist you have any ability or right to speak to what or what not Christians should do or not do, it is like a man from earth trying to tell a man from some alien planet how they should think and act. You are an alien to the commonwealth of God and have no understanding at all of the things of God.

          • M Diaz

            “You are making assertions based on gross ignorance of God’s Word”

            well if your god actually existed, then it’s your gods fault for not meeting me where I’m at…and i remain unimpressed with your small, shortsighted, impotent god

            “you are not spiritually qualified to judge these matters.”

            well being that you continue to fail demonstrating spirituality is meaningful in anyway, i can judge you by the words i read in the bible, which betrays your weak faith and your arrogance…

            “you have not His Spirit and cannot ever hope to understand what the Spirit”

            you might as well be speaking in a chinese…that means absolutely nothing to me because you refuse to demonstrate HOW you came to the conclusion who and what god is sparky..

            all this would be avoided if you just demonstrated the method, but of course you are just happier spewing your vile hatred of me because i reject your paltry belief system

          • Fundisi

            i’m sorry, there is nothing I can do to help you. I have tried to tell you the truth, that is all I can do and pray no matter what it takes that God can humble you before Him to seek His salvation before it is too late.

          • M Diaz

            “i’m sorry, there is nothing I can do to help you. I have tried to tell you the truth, ”

            you are a deplorable liar…you said yo had no time to demonstrate for me HOW you came to the conclusion that the bible is the word of god, go and run away coward..

    • Gary

      As soon as you can prove, from the Bible, that homosexuality and ssm are moral, I will support them.

      • M Diaz

        the buybull has yet to be established to be meaningful in any capacity…
        although i would assume it’s meaningful to those who are bigoted haters

        • Gary

          Christians get their beliefs from the Bible. That is why we oppose homosexuals and ssm.

          • M Diaz

            thusly Christians belong to a hate group

          • Gary

            Whatever.

          • M Diaz

            no it’s actually horrible…this attitude of indifference to the horrific way christians are to treat non believers, according to the buybull, is absolutely sociopathic…shame on you

          • Gary

            You are treated much better by Christians than you deserve.

          • M Diaz

            ahem, it is the christians who have blood on their hands sparky

          • Gary

            I have no blood on my hands, and I’m a Christian. Which Christians are you talking about ?

          • M Diaz

            of course you do..

            you call yourself a christian a christian is to disregard those of the world (2 cor 5:16) because they are evil wicked and of the dark for not believing (2 cor 6:14)

            christians who are to shun homosexual and teach young minds they are to hate themselves for being who they are and end up committing suicide or are thrown out of their homes to live a life on the street abandoned

            i invite you to watch this video

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1df_i26wh-w

            it’s a perfect example of christian sociopathy…shame on you for being a part of this…

            “Which Christians are you talking about ?”
            there is only one label, and you willingly associate yourself with it…

          • Gary

            Beliefs and behavior have consequences. Why are you surprised that people want nothing to do with perverts?

          • M Diaz

            well first off you need to qualify a homosexual is a pervert..
            or are you talking about the perversion of hating someone who makes you uncomfortable and are therefore justified in your sociopathic remedy of dehumanizing them?

          • Gary

            Homosexuals are perverts. They have dehumanized themselves by engaging in perversion. I won’t accept what they do, which requires not accepting them.

          • M Diaz

            “Homosexuals are perverts”

            come on Gary, heterosexuals are perverts too, what is your point?

            “They have dehumanized themselves by engaging in perversion.”

            well heterosexuals do too, what is your point?

            “I won’t accept what they do, ”
            i’m not sure i understand this, is someone making you homosexual?

            “which requires not accepting them.”

            sure, if someone was turning you into something you don’t want to be i can totally agree with that, so is someone making you a homosexual?

      • Taussig

        nobody wants or needs your support.

        • Gary

          Then stop demanding it.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            Who is “demanding” your support?

          • Gary

            You are.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            I have made no such demand of you, Gary. That is a lie. You are free to support or not support whatever you care to.

            How do you reconcile lying with your professed believe in Christianity?

          • Gary

            You are the liar. There is no reason for you to be on this site advocating for homosexuality other than trying to gain support for it.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “You are the liar.”

            What lies have I told?

            “There is no reason for you to be on this site advocating for homosexuality other than trying to gain support for it.”

            Not true. I am on this site to point out when people lie and hypocritically apply principles, as a justification for harming their fellow citizens.

            Based upon your views and your willingness to support the murder of people simply because they disagree with you, I have absolutely no desire for your support.

          • Gary

            You are here to try to get people to support perverts. You might as well not lie about it.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            So you are not able to point to anything I have said that is a lie. Got it.

            In other words, you lied. How do you reconcile lying and bearing false witness with your supposed belief in Christianity?

          • Gary

            Come on. Everyone knows you are here to try to convince people to support homosexuality.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            Only I know why am I here, and I have explained the reasons why to you. Why do you continue to repeat things that are not true?

            How do you reconcile your lying and bearing false witness with your supposed belief in Christianity?

          • Gary

            If you were not here to defend and promote homosexuality, then you would not be here.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            You contine to lie about me. Why is that?

      • thoughtsfromflorida

        Your support is not necessary. You are free to support or not support whatever you care to. If you believe that you should only support laws that are consistent with the Bible, then you obviously do not support the American form of government. You might be happier living in a nation that is a Christian Theocracy.

        • Gary

          I just want the laws to be moral.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            Based on your views of morality?

            Using religious belief as a sole basis for our laws is contrary to our constitution. Therefore, you do not support the American form of government. Are anti-American. Are anti-freedom and liberty.

            Again, it appears that you would be happier living in a nation that is a Christian Theocracy. Unfortunately, none of those exist. The closest would probably be Uganda. You should give it a try. Much more to your liking regarding how laws are determined. 79 degrees for a high today and partly sunny – sounds nice. If you need a reference for a good moving company, please, please, please let me know.

          • Gary

            There is nothing in the American form of government that prohibits that the laws should be moral. You seem to only want laws that are immoral.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            What is considered moral and what is not depends on one’s belief system. Some laws will be consistent with your moral views. Others will not. There is no requirement, nor do you have the ability to ensure, that laws of our nation only reflect your views on what is moral and what is not.

            What laws do you believe I want that are “immoral”?

          • Gary

            You want legal ssm, which is immoral. Morality is defined by God, not by people.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “Morality is defined by God, not by people.”

            That is what you have chosen to believe. While I realize you may have a hard time accepting this, the reality is that things aren’t true just because you have decided to believe in them.

            Do you believe that, in a country where everyone is guaranteed the right to equal treatment under the law, liberty, freedom, and to pursue their happiness, that it is “moral” to deny them those things based solely upon your not agreeing with them?

          • Gary

            Why should you be free to do anything you want?

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            I never suggested that I do.

            I”ll ask again:

            Do you believe that, in a country where everyone is guaranteed the right to equal treatment under the law, liberty, freedom, and to pursue their happiness, that it is “moral” to deny them those things based solely upon your not agreeing with them?

          • Gary

            It is moral to deny people the right to do things that are immoral, if the government is looking to God to know what is moral.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “if the government is looking to God to know what is moral.”

            The government is not, so the actions you presented are immoral.

          • http://www.FascistDykeMotors.com/ Katy

            Taking the Lord’s name in vain is immoral. Not helping your fellow man when he needs you to is immoral. Lust is immoral.

            Do you propose making those things illegal?

          • Gary

            How would the government enforce a law against lust?

          • http://www.FascistDykeMotors.com/ Katy

            Was that answer to the question?

          • RMNCB

            American laws are written by people, not God.

          • Gary

            But the laws can still be moral.

    • Pererin

      So you think that God wants us to sin in order to fit in with the world? No the Bible does not teach this. We are also called to spread the gospel which is why we are so vocal in public.

      If the government announced that marriage was now a basic right between, man and animal or man and child, you would have no problem? Just move with the times?

      Or more close to home for an atheist, if the government announced that it was a basic right to have each religion’s beliefs in the science classroom, which would mean having the creation story of each and every religion in the science class and taught as fact, you would not have a problem?

      Of course you would, however if you were to then protest against that, you would be called a bigot and arrogant. Sound familiar?

      • M Diaz

        “So you think that God wants us to sin in order to fit in with the world? ”

        no the sermon on the mount says “if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.”

        i didn’t come up with this, i am quoting something Jesus said

        so either you are going to follow his directives or not…do you think faith is supposed to be easy? do you think faith is serve your biases your hate and anger towards others in light of the sermon on the mount…are you a convenient christian?

        “If the government announced that marriage was now a basic right between, man and animal or man and child, you would have no problem?”

        let me explain the idea of consent, do you know what that is?

        consent means to give permission to..a child nor an animal is in the position to give consent, so this just looks like a desperate non thinking retort

        ” if the government announced that it was a basic right to have each religion’s beliefs in the science classroom,”

        can’t happen, that is just another non sequitur..separation of church and state

        • Pererin

          Consent doesn’t come into it. Homosexuality was once illegal. So why would lack of consent hold back the government? Do you see the problem? Once laws are flipped, twisted and changed to however they want, we have big problems.
          Just look at the bakery who is being made to make a cake for a gay wedding ‘without their consent’ or go out of business.

          It’s a slippery slope!

          You seriously expect me to take verses from the bible out of context? Please read the whole book, you are revealing you ignorance and bias in posting verses out of context. Especially when they so obviously do not fit with the message given. You are coming across as being wilfully ingnorant just for the sake of winding up a few Christians. It’s not working.

          • M Diaz

            “Consent doesn’t come into it. ”

            of course consent has everything to do with your lame argument when mentioning children and animals

            “Homosexuality was once illegal.”

            just like owning a slave was once legal…

            “So why would lack of consent hold back the government?”

            because 2 consenting adults have the right to pursue happiness together

            “Do you see the problem?”

            no

          • M Diaz

            “You seriously expect me to take verses from the bible out of context?”
            ok, so offer the right context

  • Roodog

    If Russell Moore does not resign, Individual Baptists and Baptist Congregations will resign.
    I wonder if Moore is involved with the FEMA Clergy Response Teams?

  • Badkey

    Awesome! Not what I’d have expected!

  • Dave

    Romans 13:1-7; Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God’s wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

    Daniel 4:17….. the Most High rules the kingdom of men and gives it to whom he will….

    Proverbs 21:1 The king’s heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water
    He turneth it whithersoever he will.

    • Fundisi

      We are never to obey man’s laws if they cause us to violate the will of God. Peter asked should he obey God or man and he chose God.

      • WorldGoneCrazy

        Indeed, well-said. Don’t you just love it when cowards, Christian or not, quote Romans 13?!? I suppose they would be up to aborting babies, too, if the “authorities” ordered it.

        • Dave

          @ Fundisi & WorldGoneCrazy; Daniel 4:17….. the Most High rules the kingdom of men and gives it to whom he will….

          Proverbs 21:1 The king’s heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water He turneth it whithersoever he will.

          So, you are criticizing God’s way of doing things?

          Paul wrote Romans while under the most tyrannical ruler the world has known. He also died “breaking the law” for the Gospel. But this is not the case in your situation.

          I don’t see how you can stand for the Gospel when you try to wield the law to persecute your audience. Isn’t divorce and remarriage adultery according to God? Why not single these out too?

  • Jeff Tilley

    Hold on a second here …. forget the federal judges … Roy Moore gave the probate courts and judges all the guidance needed NOT to issue gay marriage licenses. Period. PERIOD ! End of discussion. Mr. Russell Moore has his size 10 foot in his mouth.

    • Badkey

      And yet… they’re issuing licenses. Ain’t it wonderful?

    • Lee Street

      The only mistake that I can see that Russell Moore made was to advocate not following Judge Roy Moore’s ruling when he said that the lower judges in Alabama didn’t have to marry a gay couple. Russell Moore is saying that we should or must follow what Jesus said about following the law to the latter. He is not advocating Gay marriage in anyway. He is advocating not fighting the Federal law to the States from a State position like a Judge. He is advocating resigning from one’s position and as a citizen fight the federal government’s decision to advocate gay marriage to the states. In order to understand what he meant the reader will have to read the whole story on what he said. What Russell Moore needs to do is see from what Position Judge Roy Moore gave his direction to the lower court judges from.“The only thing that went to the Supreme Court was the injunctive relief, and that’s very important. Because the injunctive relief in that case related only to the attorney general in our state, not to any probate court. Nobody has ruled on the marriage,” Moore said. “If they had ruled on the marriage, we wouldn’t need to be going to the United States Supreme Court in April with a decision on this issue that is actually debated among the various courts of appeals of our country. There is no law right now that overcomes the Alabama Constitution.” So with this said Judge Roy Moore in absolutely right in his directions to the lower court Judges.

      Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/02/roy-moore-supreme-court-gay-marriage-115213.html#ixzz3RsNzzRpZ

  • Brenda Golden

    You can’t lead people when you can’t follow God.

    • dark477

      the various atheist leaders across the world say different. you don’t need religion to be a good leader.

    • thoughtsfromflorida

      In what way is Moore not following God?

  • Peter Leh

    i am shocked at Mr Moore’s integrity….. and a SBC to boot.

    the SBC’s foundation and formation was to prohibit equal protection whose actions historically continued through reconstruction, forced labor, peonage, jim crow, segregation until finally apologizing in 1996.

    Bravo!

  • Roger Carr

    This is always true forever . Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

    • LostBoyPA

      Bronze age mysticism doesn’t apply in the 21st Century, Mr. Carr. Back then, it was a more feasible option. Today? Yeah, not so much.

      • Gary

        God is still alive. And He has not given up any of His authority.

        • LostBoyPA

          Well then, he can come down here and exert it himself. Otherwise, you’re stuck with the laws of this country.

          • thushjz

            He will, eventually…just keep on going like you’re going…

          • LostBoyPA

            You keep telling yourself that.

          • Jeff Varney

            He was talking about you as well as everyone else like you.

  • WorldGoneCrazy

    Sad to see Russell Moore not comprehend the severity of this situation in the Christian faith. Perhaps he should discuss it with his local Catholic theologian who knows better than he what the Sanctity of Marriage is about.

    https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/7-reasons-why-the-current-marriage-debate-is-nothing-like-the-debate-on-int

    • LostBoyPA

      The “severity of the situation,” as you like to put it, is simply the eroding influence Christianity has on society as a whole. The simple fact is, the church is mad because it doesn’t hold sway over peoples’ lives like it once did, and it’s grasping at straws in a vain attempt to hold on to what little power it has left.

      Please: Don’t confuse persecution for not getting your way.

      • thoughtsfromflorida

        It is a constant confusion for some.

  • LostBoyPA

    Sorry, kids. But your right to your faith doesn’t trump another human being’s basic rights. Here in America, we are governed by secular laws. This is a republic, not a theocracy. Either deal with it and adjust, or get left behind as a relic of a by-gone era. Those are your only choices now.

    • Fundisi

      When a nation passes laws against God, that nation cannot long stand. While you might rejoice now – your weeping will last an eternity when you face God and discover how evil this gay marriage thing is.

      • LostBoyPA

        Blah blah blah, rhetoric we’ve all heard in the past. And I have no intention of facing a being I simply don’t believe exists.

        The fact of the matter is this – all human beings should be treated equally. Your religion doesn’t give you a free pass to be a jerk to other people, simply because you cherry picked a verse from an outdated bronze age fable.

        Hey, here’s a thought: When was the last time you wore a cotton-polyester blend shirt?

        • Mr. Avatar

          “We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We’ve staked the future of all our political institutions upon our capacity…to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.” [1778 to the General Assembly of the State of Virginia] – James Madison

          • LostBoyPA

            “Religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people.” — Jesse Ventura

            “Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.” — Thomas Jefferson

        • Gary

          You don’t have a choice. You will face God.
          In marriage, all human beings are treated equally now. The marriage qualifications have always applied to everyone equally.

          • LostBoyPA

            Oh, but I DO have a choice. I won’t face anything when I’m gone, because I don’t believe anything else happens when I’m gone. I’m grown up enough to accept the hardline reality of the cycle of life – including death.

            But please, feel free to cite your sources and show your work with regards to your claim that I “will” face God. Degree of Difficulty: Your belief is an opinion, and doesn’t count as a valid source backing up your claim.

          • Gary

            What you believe does not determine what will happen.

          • tyler

            I could say that exact same thing to you, you know..

          • Gary

            That is true. God is going to do what He wants no matter what I believe.

        • Fundisi

          Most of your words are childish, baseless charges and not worth my time. As to cloth, I do not live under the law of Moses, but under grace.

          • LostBoyPA

            Please explain how equal rights is “childish.” And the very verse you use to proclaim the “evil” of marriage equality is, indeed, the law of Moses. You can’t cherry pick what you like and don’t like: You either follow it all, or follow none.

            Either way, the laws of Moses are not the laws of the United States.

          • Fundisi

            “Cherry picking” verses, being “jerks, :” etc. is childish.

            Under the New Testament, while the moral Laws of God remain in effect, the Laws of Moses are no longer applicable, we live under Grace and not the Law.

      • thoughtsfromflorida

        Do you have some examples of that?

    • Gary

      There is no right to ssm to be found in the US Constitution. And God granted no such right.

      • LostBoyPA

        This is a matter of equal rights under secular law. God’s law does not apply in legal matters in this country.

        • Gary

          You would need to prove there is a right to ssm.

          • LostBoyPA

            The Constitution forbids enacting laws that create a second class of citizen. Therefore, laws against granting the same legal protections to homosexual couples that heterosexual couples have are unconstitutional.

            The more you know.

          • Gary

            Homosexuals are under the same rules as heterosexuals. You want an exemption from the laws for homosexuals. There is no constitutional requirement to grant that exemption.

          • Badkey

            No sweetcheeks… in 37 states (soon to be 50), heterosexuals are under the same rules as homosexuals. If you choose not to actively take advantage of that, that’s up to you, but all citizens are still playing by the same riles.

            There is no constitutional requirement to ban that possibility, and as the courts show… lots of constitutional support for it.

          • Gary

            There is not a word in the US Constitution that requires ssm to be legal. The courts claim that they are ruling in accord with the Constitution is a lie. The motives of the judges who support ssm have nothing to do with the US Constitution.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “You want an exemption from the laws for homosexuals.”

            Nope. No exemption wanted. The laws restricting marriage are being struck down, therefore there is nothing to be exempted from.

    • Pererin

      So, if the government announced that marriage was now a basic right between, man and animal or man and child, you would have no problem? Just move with the times?

      • LostBoyPA

        There’s granting equal rights to people, and then there’s grasping at straws. Your argument is the latter. You’re making a ludicrous comparison to things any civilized society would never allow.

        • Pererin

          You don’t think so? I would argue it’s not far away. I believe New Jersey has legalised adult incest. It’s a slippery slope and unless nipped in the bud it will continue on to further depravity.
          Where do you get your moral standard by-the-way? Why are these situations ‘ludicrous’ in your moral code?

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “I believe New Jersey has legalised adult incest. ”

            Incest is legal in every state. It’s is simply a matter of degree of closeness.

            “Why are these situations ‘ludicrous’ in your moral code?”

            It’s not a question of moral code. It is a question of legal code. Animals are unable to enter into contracts and are not citizens, therefore to suggest that civil marriage will be expanded to include people and animals is simply a straw man argument.

            Regarding man and child – a lot would depend on your definition of “child”. In some states, a 14-year-old is legally allowed to marry. The age of consent during the first few centuries was considerable lower than it is today.

            To address your second straw man argument, a “child” is not able to enter into a legal contract, which is what civil marriage is.

    • Mr. Avatar

      At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, James Madison proposed the plan to divide the central government into three branches. He discovered this model of government from the Perfect Governor, as he read Isaiah 33:22;
      “For the LORD is our judge, [judicial] the LORD is our lawgiver, [legislative] the LORD is our king; [executive]He will save us.”

  • jcrosby35

    My thoughts are simple.
    You call yourself a minister of the gospel, (Good News) of God? You practice the Word of God. (The whole word of God)!
    If you have a problem with that then get out. That’s right, resign and follow your flesh or the world, you do not belong in the church of Christ.

    • thoughtsfromflorida

      “My thoughts are simple.”

      Agreed.

      “You practice the Word of God. (The whole word of God)!”

      In what way is Moore not practicing the word of the Christian god?

      • Gary

        He is calling for letting the wicked have their way.

        • thoughtsfromflorida

          No, he is calling for citizens to respect the system of government that is in place in the United States. He has said nothing in support of same-gender marriage. In fact, just the opposite.

          • Gary

            When the government makes bad laws, respecting those bad laws is the same thing as supporting them. This issue is not going to be won by following the rules laid down by your enemies.

          • thoughtsfromflorida

            “When the government makes bad laws, respecting those bad laws is the same thing as supporting them.”

            So then you support people believing in gods other than the Christian god, correct? Or do you believe our laws should not allow for freedom of relgion?

            So then you support people taking the Lord’s name in vain, correct? Or do you believe that our laws should not allow for freedom speech?

            So you support people not observing the Sabbath, correct? Or do you believe that our laws should not allow for people not observing the Sabbath?

  • Mr. Avatar

    The supreme court needs to revisit the 1st amendment and fix that
    separation stuff, as it only applies to the Government staying out of the church
    and no where do you see that word separation.

    • LostBoyPA

      The Church doesn’t get a free pass to do as it pleases, sorry. And did you even think before you posted this? If Government got out of the way of religion, then those mean, nasty, evil brown Mooslims would be able to do what they wanted, too.

      Think before you post.

  • thoughtsfromflorida

    Nice to see a voice of reason and legal prudence. He is absolutely correct.

  • Dave

    We condemn homosexuality and legislate against it but we turn a blind eye to Adultery. Churches, with their “singles” programs even encourage it when they match-up and marry divorced persons. If we try to justify this brand of adultery by using the “except clause” of Matthew 19:9, why then is the innocent woman and the man she marries said to commit adultery for marrying after her divorce from an adulterous husband?

    The Bible calls Homosexuality a sin, but even more-so – Adultery.

    • thoughtsfromflorida

      I guess that’s why Christians are all up in arms about allowing a person who was divorced for reasons other than adultery to be barred from getting married again.

      Oh, wait, they aren’t.

      • Fundisi

        Because it is an apostate church, a wholly wicked church, corrupted by liberalism.

    • Gary

      If I had the power to do something about the legality of adultery, I would. Right now, I’m trying to oppose homosexuality.

      • Badkey

        And you’re failing miserably.

        • Gary

          At least I’m trying to do what is right.

          • Badkey

            Not really… you’re posting on right-wing religious sites about following god’s word and executing christians… you’re not really doing a damm thing constructive that is making any kind of difference.

          • Gary

            That is your opinion.

          • Badkey

            Judging from how your being slaughtered in the culture war over marriage, I’d say that “my opinion” is pretty close to the mark!

          • Gary

            I am confident that any victories you have will be short lived.

          • tyler

            so your legacy many years from now will be: “Gary wrote some insensitive and rude comments against gays on some news articles in an attempt to stop homosexuality.”

    • Fundisi

      Please show us where God calls adultery a greater sin than that of homosexuality, i for one would be interested.

      There are many failings in the man-organized Church and the greatest is that they treat God’s Word so lightly, they fail to condemn sin and teach of the pains of hell, which failures together weakens people of faith. Please remember the adulterer may be convicted by the Lord of their sin, repent and find plenteous forgiveness, by His Grace. In repenting they agree with God it is a sin and by His Power within to cease committing adultery. But, the homosexual who does not repent, does not agree it is a sin and therefore does not seek forgiveness and healing, how can they find forgiveness? To be forgiven, mustn’t one acknowledge they committed some offense needing forgiveness?

      • Dave

        The Bible mentions Homosexuality and all of it’s related terms only a few times. The word for Adultery occurs 45 times, fornication occurs 44 times not to mention the other forms of the word. All recognized forms of the sins were punishable by death in the OT and stand on equal footing as sin in the NT. Only that Homosexuality is a sign that God is judging a people.

        • Fundisi

          It is correct that adultery is condemned as being a sin, as is fornication, idolatry and other sins, all of which deny a person practicing such sins eternal life with God. They are all abhorrent to God. God hates all sin: “When the Bible does speak of God hating,
          the object of God’s hatred is usually sin and wickedness. Among the
          things God hates are idolatry (Deuteronomy 12:31; 16:22) and those who do evil (Psalm 5:4-6; 11:5). Proverbs 6:16-19
          outlines seven things the Lord hates: pride, lying, murder, evil plots,
          those who love evil, false witness, and troublemakers. Notice that this
          passage does not include just things that God hates; it includes people as well.
          Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/does-God-hate.html#ixzz3RwF26KWU

          The only unforgivable sin is a sin against the Holy Spirit. There are three things worthy of note about the sin of homosexuality: (a) It is the only sin for which God destroyed whole cities and for which in Romans One, He expresses such particular hatred. (b) All sins, including homosexuality can be forgiven and the person practicing such a sin can be saved. (c) The adulterer or one guilty of other sins may be convicted by the Lord of their sin, repent and find
          plenteous forgiveness, by His Grace. In repenting they agree with God
          it is a sin and by His Power within to cease committing adultery. But,
          the homosexual who does not repent, that does not agree it is a sin and
          therefore does not seek forgiveness and healing, how can they find such
          forgiveness? To be forgiven, mustn’t one first have to acknowledge they committed the
          offense and are thus needing forgiveness and deliverance? Unfortunately, by saying it is not a sin nor having a desire to be delivered from that sin, it remains unforgiven and the person involved denied salvation.

          • Dave

            Fundisi, think of this way. I said Homosexuality is a sign of God’s judgement upon a people. This is according to Romans. And we see Sodom and Gomorrah as examples of this. But God said to Lot that he would not destroy the cities if he could find only ten righteous. (In Bible talk, the only righteous are those in Christ by faith in either Old or New Testament times).

            So it was more of a judgement on all including the Sodomites. The Sodomites were a sign of impending doom coming upon all.

          • Fundisi

            I agree with all you have said. I would add that God’s Judgment can begin by His withdrawing His Hand or protection on a nation, even with His children still here; while the Holy Spirit remains as long as His children are here. Yet, I believe that is why, what you said as Lot was removed from destruction and my own thoughts, in the Rapture. God will remove His children before His Judgments Fall in terrible power.

          • Dave

            Fundisi, well said, but I wouldn’t feel too let down if the Rapture doesn’t happen and we see some rough times. The pre-trib rapture theory is less than 200 years old and comes from highly questionable sources. Daniel speaks of the Antichrist (little horn) wearing out the saints of the Most High.

          • Fundisi

            It is not a theory, it is clearly taught in the Bible, I came to that conclusion by virtue of own many decades of study. Like a man said one time, I am all-millennial, whenever the Church is taken, it is all right with me, it will all work out for our good and God’s Glory.

            I would mention that people get confused over the elect, which is Israel and those saved during the Tribulation and the Body of Christ; and when they study eschatology, they cannot separate them in their minds. One major proof to me is that after Revelations Three, just after Jesus speaks directly to the churches, the Church is never mentioned again until the end when they return with Christ. Jesus said as in the days of Noah, when His people were rescued in the ark from the great floods, the world was eating, drinking, making merry in their hearts and Jesus rescued Noah and his family from God’s Judgment on the whole earth.. As you mentioned, we know that before Judgment, Lot and his family were removed before judgment fell. The Divine pattern is that before Divine Judgment, God removes His children from His Wrath against the world. When Jesus returns it is with His Body, the Church. There are so many passages that demand a pre-tribulation Rapture.

            I really do not care what others believe, I know that Jesus will not allow His Body to suffer the Wrath of God, that is Judgment and the Word tells us His children cannot come into Judgment. See, for me everything centers on Christ, Who He is, who we are in Him and neither Jesus the Head nor His Body will ever suffer the wrath of God. Don’t agree? Fine! I would not say it if I was not absolutely convinced it was biblical Truth.

  • James Staten

    Just a short response. Over fifty years ago my father raised me that you follow the law until it crosses the line to the obedience to the Lord. This is really not a debate?

  • Mary Kilbride

    So all Christians should just voluntarily give up their businesses to comply with a rotting government. And, you sir? Whose law will save you? There are times that you do not go along with Federal Law and that is precisely now, when the government is being run by an anti-Christian President. We should, in fact, stand against him, and stand for God’s Laws, which this country has upheld for many years before the community organizer that is not even proven to be a legal citizens, began running this country (into the hole). If you compare how this country has deteriorated, you will know that people need to rise up, and if you can’t rise up in the name of God and His Son, Jesus Christ, then you may as well continue on as you are, because you don’t speak for God’s Word as a Christian leader should.

  • LostBoyPA

    If you claim to be “Christian,” then you follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, correct? And what did Christ say about gay marriage?

    Nothing.

    So, if you’re truly Christian, you’ll drop the argument, because the central figure of your little cult had nothing to say on the subject. End of argumnet.

    • Gary

      What did Jesus say about marriage? Do you know?

      • tyler

        not a single thing. Nothing.

        • Fundisi

          Throughout Holy Writ He only defines marriage as between one man to one woman and that for a lifetime. There is not a single word that even remotely hints of His approval of marriage between people of the same gender, there is not a word that says He makes them one flesh before Him. As He condemns homosexuality, He could not then approve of gay marriage.

          • tyler

            there is also not a single word anywhere in the bible that condones eating ‘dippin-dots’, using condoms, wearing boxers or briefs, or using cell phones. Nothing..

          • Fundisi

            Except for sin, we now have liberty in Christ and the Law of Love causes His children to walk in such a way as to not harm others, which fulfills the moral laws of God.

        • Gary

          Incorrect. You are ignorant of the contents of the Bible.

      • Fundisi

        Gary these fellows do not know that Jesus is the Word of God, that every word was inspired by Jesus through the Holy Spirit and that when we read thus and thus in God’s Word, it is Jesus speaking. Since they refuses to accept that homosexuality is sexual immorality, when Jesus condemns sexual immorality, LostBoyPA and Tyler below, will never equate that with their sins.

    • Texas Mimi

      You are indeed lost. Jesus is God. Did you not ever read the Bible? Especially the New Testament? Did you ever hear God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit? When the disciples asked Jesus about God, He told them that they had seen HIm, therefore they had seen God.

      • Paul Hiett

        And this, folks, is why there are 42,000 denominations of Christianity….ya’ll can’t even agree on what to believe in.

    • thushjz

      And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE,5and said, ‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH ‘?…

  • GinnyLee

    Where does this “Russel” come from? He is either uninformed in law, unknowledgeable in Scripture, or he’s working for the ‘other side’ of Christianity.”

    “As citizens and as Christians, our response should be one of both conviction and of respect for the rule of law,” he remarked. “Our system of government does not allow a state to defy the law of the land.” Russel???

  • Fred Gottshalk

    Russel Moore, and the rest of the Baptists, should start standing up for the tenets of the Bible or resign. Maybe they should also re-instate Bill Clinton.

    • Paul Hiett

      Out of curiosity, why should everyone follow the rules of your religion?

  • http://textsincontext.wordpress.com Michael Snow

    “Our system of government does not allow a state to defy the law of the land.” Russel M. is jumping the gun. It is not the law of the land.

    • Paul Hiett

      But by June, after the USSC has ruled, it most likely will be. With only 13 states left, the outcome is but a foregone conclusion.

      • Gary

        What will happen if the SC votes against ssm?

        • dark477

          we’ll keep fighting

          • Gary

            So will we.

          • Paul Hiett

            Dream on if you think the USSC will vote against it. Do you really think they’re going to overturn the right to marry for gays in 37 states? I’ve got some beach front property in Arizona to sell ya…

  • Lizzy

    Russell Moore is a liberal plant in the SBC and so will reason as a liberal. He is an evil worker doing the work of Satan. Judge Moore is acting out of courage and conviction. He is upholding the Constitution, both of his state and federal. It is encouraging to see men who won’t just roll over and take the evil as Russell Moore counsels. He is very ecumenical and supportive of homosexual marriage. Here are a couple of exposes.

    https://holdingforthhisword.wordpress.com/2014/11/10/separation/

    https://holdingforthhisword.wordpress.com/2014/11/09/distraction/

  • Gary

    Wonder what the government will try to do to those millions of us who refuse to accept ssm as legal marriage, or as being legitimate in any way?

    • Paul Hiett

      And what do you think you’re going to do about it? Take up arms and kill the gays? Kill anyone who supports them? You’re nothing but full of harmless wind, and no amount of bellyaching is going to change what is happening. SSM will be legalized across the nation, and in a few years only the die hard bigots like you will remain, posting your hatred with fewer and fewer supporters until one day, not too long in the near future, you’ll fade away into oblivion, and with you your hate.

      • Gary

        Legalization will not translate into acceptance among Christians. And I think you are mistaken about what might happen in the future.

        • Paul Hiett

          You don’t have to accept it. In fact, you can lock yourself up in your home and scream at the walls about how “wrong” it is, and how God hates gays. But, you will have to live with it. Men will marry men, women will marry women, and nothing bad will happen to anyone.

          But you…you can wail on and on about how you don’t accept it, and guess what will happen? Nothing.

          Just like segregation, eventually this, too, shall become a thing of the past, and the rest of society will look down on those who chose the wrong side.

          • Gary

            No, I don’t think I will have to live with it. Just because the government calls something “marriage” does not mean it is.

          • Paul Hiett

            Well Gary, hate to burst your bubble, but if gays have a piece of paper that says that the United States of America recognizes their marriage, then you can scream ” no no no” til the cows come home, but they’ll still be legally married.

            Don’t like it? You can always leave this country…

          • Gary

            The piece of paper from the government does not mean I have to accept it. And I won’t.

  • Devon Dibley

    “Our system of government does not allow a state to defy the law of the land.”

    It’s called the Tenth Amendment, pal. And since marriage is no where mentioned in the US Constitution, the definition of a federal judge is not “the law of the land.”

    • dark477

      the 9th amendment. just because something isn’t mention specifically doesn’t mean it isn’t a right.

      • Devon Dibley

        Clearly the courts always held that marriage law was the purview. There is nothing in the Constitution that even hints at marriage being defined anyway you want it defines to be a guaranteed right that the state must acknowledge.

        The Ninth Amendment was meant to limit the federal government’s infringement on any rights that may not be specifically named. The Tenth followed to keep the federal government from assuming powers it was not given. By your interpretation, any marriage to anybody or anybodies would be a Constitutional right. It removes all restrictions and forces the states and the federal government to recognize anything anyone wants to call marriage.

        Finally, by putting marriage as a right, it must then always be guaranteed and recognized by the federal government in any form. Do I need to file paperwork to practice my religion? Or practice free speech?

        • dark477

          yes in some cases.

  • http://www.remnantofgod.org/ John1429dotorg

    “traveled to the Vatican”…I did not need to read any further…

  • thetallguy24

    Why are the actions of MLK and Rosa Parks acceptable over Justice Moore’s simply because they aren’t a public official? Since when does the title hold you define the
    correctness of ones morality? Either they are all right or they are all wrong. Russel Moore should resign.

    • Paul Hiett

      When you take a position of leadership in government, your religious beliefs need to take a back seat. Not everyone subscribes to the same belief system, and so this nation is founded upon a set of principles and ethics that benefit the entire country, and not just the followers of a single interpretation of a single religion. We need to strive for a system that benefits everyone, and not just a select few. Gay marriage IS a human rights issue, as much as Christians and Muslims would like to disagree. We’re 13 states away from marriage equality.

      • Gary

        You don’t give up your rights if you work for the government. At least that didn’t used to be true. ssm is NOT a right, and is NOT a humans rights issue.

        • Paul Hiett

          No one said that ones religions beliefs are rights. You do not have the right to stone someone for adultery…even though it’s in your Bible. You do not have the right to kill someone for working on the Sabbath, even though it’s in the Bible.

          Your religious “rights” end where our laws begin. I don’t expect you to understand this though.

          Hate to burst your bubble Gary, but SSM is a human rights issue, which is exactly why the USSC is going to rule on it. By all means, bury your head in the sand, but you and I both know which way they will rul.e

          • Gary

            There is no right to ssm. God never granted the right, and it is not supported by the US Constitution. Any “right” granted by the government can later be revoked by the government.

          • dark477

            No it can’t, not without a fight anyway.

          • Paul Hiett

            “God” has nothing to do with the laws of this nation. Sorry Gary, but not everyone agrees with your particular version of your particular religion.

          • Gary

            You can’t find a right to ssm in the Constitution either.

          • The Last Trump

            Hey Paul, what’s the name of that book again, that all politicians and judges who form legislation swear an oath over? Oh yeah, The Bible.
            Gee that’s strange, eh Paul? Doesn’t quite fit with the fictitious narrative that you would have the uneducated believe now does it.
            Move along troll. You’re just embarrassing yourself here.

          • dark477

            they don’t have to swear on a bible they can use anything or nothing and they swear to uphold the laws of America not god

          • Paul Hiett

            I guess you’re unfamiliar with the fact that Bibles are not required for swearing in anymore.

            Tell me again about my “fictitious narrative”….

      • thetallguy24

        And who defines what human rights are? Society? Nature? God? If its society that defines what human rights are, then society can just as easily take them away whenever it changes its mind. If society defines rights, then they are no longer rights, just privileges.

    • PlatformOfTruth

      Um no, he is actually heading in the right direction, finally someone in the south with a decent sized brain!!

  • Carlos Rios

    Russell Moore would’ve made for one heck of a colonist. He probably would’ve said something to the effect of “George Washington must resign and oppose King George as a private citizen”

  • Texas Mimi

    Russel Moore is totally wrong! He needs to dust off his Bible and read the scripture where we’re told that if a law is against God’s law, we’re supposed to obey God’s law. Just shows how many pastors are leading their congregations astray. So many wolves in sheeps’ clothing, standing in the pulpit! Judge Roy Moore is a hero, standing up for what is right.

  • Texas Mimi

    Hey Y’all, quit feeding the troll!!! Asunti1 is just trying to stir up dissension, as she doesn’t have a clue what she’s talking about, concerning that false religion, Roman Catholicism. Jesus said we would know fellow believers by their fruit, and her’s is rotten! I pray the Holy Spirit will speak truth to her, and she’ll come to the Lord Jesus Christ while there is still time.

    • http://www.remnantofgod.org/ John1429dotorg

      Its that simple…I am beginning to discern that he is a Catholic or molded in liberal ideology…pray for his veiled eyes to be opened.

  • magormissabib

    if the
    Supreme Court does overthrow all past precedent and
    conclude that a marriage license is a constitutional right–
    mark these words we tell you: that will only be the beginning.
    Because it is of little interest to the homosexual population in the abstract to have access to a marriage license. What they seek– indeed what they crave–
    is society telling them their sin is acceptable in the sight of God. It will be interesting to see how
    far the courts of this land are prepared to go in uprooting the entire form of government and its entire historical jurisprudence, and in plowing over others,constitutional rights, to accommodate that unholy mission.

    • Badkey

      No, your god doesn’t matter.

      • Gary

        Someday soon, you will change your opinion.

      • magormissabib

        telll me about it when youre on fire.

  • OldArkie

    Russell Moore we are to obey God, not man, and its past time for you to study your Bible learning the way of God before dishing out such information.

    Ac 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

    If your going to obey man, not God, them you need to step down and out of the ministry of God instead of spreading the message of old Satan.

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    In the United States of Sodom, what could the rule of law mean? US Constitution is not working anymore because it is being broken by the top people.

  • PlatformOfTruth

    Attention all you you so called “Christians”, is everyone forgetting we live in America and its 2015. Remember when we separated the Church for the State? Yes will it did happen, and remember which century we are in? great! Why the hell are you “Christians” resorting to violence? Do you not know your bible has nothing to do with the laws of this country. Keep that book of Fairy Tales at home, don’t bring that to any argument relating to Government. There is no rational thought to that book governing this nation, it won’t, it shouldn’t and based on millions – IT COULDN’T. Growing up as a Christian I was always taught of the love and compassion for my fellow human being, however the wicked, devilish uneducated garbage I keep reading and hearing from most of you so called Christians, is whats making me and more people like me see the truth about Religion and the Bible. When you uneducated people have a chance to stop writing so much garbage, and actually research the fallacies within the bible and its stories, then you will see the bullshit you have been fed. WAKE UP ALABAMA, EQUAL RIGHTS IS COMING, AND NOTHING YOU SMALL MINDED – BACKWARDS THINKING- UNEDUCATED- GARBAGE PEOPLE WILL DO TO STOP IT.

    • Gary

      Can you tell us Christians why we should support ssm?

    • William Rogan

      Remember , Platform … Jesus first said to LOVE THE LORD THY GOD with all of they heart soul and mind before completing the second part of loving our neighbor as ourselves.
      If you believe that going against God’s words and principles is loving Him , then you should be questioning your very foundation.

      • PlatformOfTruth

        William, My foundation is set in stone, I love God and believe me he is my only worship. I refuse to believe in that fairy tale book called the bible, completely flawed and contradicting. I respect and love all, however dirty disgusting violent nasty christians that come up with all these vial intrepretations of the bible are the real problem. You should question the foundations with those fellow christian of yours, those are the ones that are truly troubled. I am set in stone and that is that.

  • Jay Mark

    Everyone is entitled to his opinion.

  • jmstalk

    bull

  • http://therepublicanmother.blogspot.com republicanmother

    Russell Moore sits on the Religious Advisory Board of the Council of Foreign Relations, a group that is invitation only membership. Their goal is to have a one-world government, complete with a “coexist” type one world religion. He is one of their plants in yhe SBC. Marriage is an issue of the natural law that should never been made a government issue to begin with. He’s spotting the classic, “our hands are tied” routine just when some of these state judges get some grit in their craw. Shut up Russell, you globalist scum bankster boy.

    • Jacob Burke Jr.

      Didn’t know that about Russell Moore (knew his predecessor Richard Land was a CFR member); but learning this now I’m not surprised.

      • http://therepublicanmother.blogspot.com republicanmother

        You are correct, I went into a jag when I saw this and my mind auto completed with Richard Land. Regardless, Moore seems to be following an agenda opposed by a majority of Southern Baptists and Alabamans. I wish we had pastors who would name names like the Apostle Paul and call those like Moore and Land out. If our churches would tell people about transhumanism and the Lucis Trust, etc, I think many would come crying for Jesus to save them. If they won’t look at the Bible, then just look around and what the Enemy of humanity is openly planning to do! Our pastors are too busy repeating the same talking points than to acknowledge the perilous times were living. If more Christian people could put our modern world in context, the more sound and secure they’d be in their faith.

        Anyway, your comment made me realize I jumped the gun on the CFR association, but I still think the guy is a skunk.

  • Evangelina Vigilantee

    Yes, Russel Moore needs to resign. Or go back, reread his Bible, and repent.

  • Tony Robinson

    Russell not only does not understand biblical Christianity (I guess he would have had Daniel resign for not bowing to an idol), he does not understand our civil government. The judicial branch is supposed to be the weakest branch: it has no police force, it makes no laws (we have a legislative branch for that). There’s a reason why their rulings are deemed “opinions” and not law – at least that is the way is supposed to work. Besides, the federal judge in question only has jurisdiction in one part of the state and his depth of jurisdiction does have limits.

  • MGM46

    The SBC is a little weak on its stand on many issues – many others they have right.

  • conservativeandproud
  • Neutral

    Sounds like Russell Moore doesn’t obey the Bible. All Believers are instructed to obey their authority (government) U N L E S S doing so would go against what God’s Word says.

    Since the Bible teaches that man and woman only can be party to the Biblical teaching on marriage, then Russell Moore is actually saying that people should disobey God.

    Russell Moore needs to REPENT – and if he doesn’t see fit to do that, then he needs to step down.

  • D.M.S.

    Can the Alabama legislator pass a law that the judges of there State don’t have to perform civil ceremonies and leave it up to the Clergy to perform.

    • thoughtsfromflorida

      The judges are not required to perform civil ceremonies. Only to issue the licenses. They can decide on their own if they want to perform ceremonies. Of course, with that said, it would need to be an all or none proposition.

  • D M S

    In the state I live in many of my friends have been married by a Judge.

  • Gunner

    Russel is just another apostate.

  • NCOriolesFan

    He’ll soon join the unemployment line.

  • http://barrybostromattorney.com Barry

    Until the SCOTUS rules on the issue, states courts must follow the rulings of their state supreme courts regarding state laws. Alabama has a definition of marriage that has been upheld by the Alabama Supreme Court. As a matter of law and precedent, Russel Moore is incorrect.

  • theSnooze

    Russel Moore should be fired and then confess that he is not a follower of Jesus Christ.

  • 1PierreMontagne1

    The learned pastor needs to check out his Constitution and realize that Federal courts do not dictate to States in matters of State autonomy – one such aspect is marriage – it is not a federal matter.
    The biased Pastor needs to withdraw his remarks; or resign and take his fight for his biased arguments to a State Court of law.

  • William Rogan

    “But if not..”

    • 1PierreMontagne1

      Then Russel Moore needs to declare himself a leader in the COAFOG aka: the “Church Of A Form Of Godliness” 2 Tim 3.
      Wise in his own eyes and a fool according to proverbs.

  • Conservative seer

    I would rather listen to and obey Gods word rather than mans law , the apostles disobeyed the Jewish Pharisees order in order to obey the lord and preach the gospel .

  • le

    I wonder if the lower court instead said it was proper for pedophia to be legal, would suggest that those judges rule in the same way. I’m not, nor have I ever been a SBCer, and never will be. SBers…. you should leave in droves!

  • LeftleaningTx

    Well he just sealed his fate today by issuing order

    “The Alabama Supreme Court on Tuesday ordered probate judges in the state to stop issuing same-sex marriage licenses.”

    This is defying a federal judges orders.
    Get the popcorn.

    But I have to say i get a perverse pleasure watching these bigots squirm in indescrible pain and anguish

    • 1PierreMontagne1

      Since when do Federal Judges override State Supreme Courts?
      The Alabama SC is not defying a federal judges orders – they are simply putting that judge in his place in accordance with the Constitutions of both State and Federal governments.

      • LeftleaningTx

        Seriously are you that ignorant ?
        Seriously ?
        The Circuity Judges over rule state judges
        The Supreme Court of the United States is made up of federal judges who have the final say over EVERY OTHER JUDGE nationwide and at every level and overrule state judge.
        That IS they way it has ALWAYS been and i’m surprised that you are so ignorant of that fact.
        But then ignorant bigot are the norm in “not knowing”

        • 1PierreMontagne1

          It has nothing to do with ignorance nor bigotry.
          The Supreme Court of Alabama has made it’s statement now for any resolution it has to go to SCOTUS.
          If a Federal judge had such imaginary powers over states there would be no need of State Judiciary to enforce State law nor the State Constitution, and Federal Judges would be able to hear all State Law cases which would make State Courts unnecessary and would make State Constitutions irrelevant.
          So will it go to SCOTUS to decide weather State Constitutions are relevant?

          • LeftleaningTx

            This guy was kicked out once before for not follow orders and it will happen again.
            Obviously you don’t understand how the laws and judgements work
            Cases work thier way up the ladder of courts through the appeals process.
            First local, then all the way up to the state Supreme Court THEN the Circuit courts THEN the SCOTUS that IS the order and power structure.
            Federal judges can and will tell Alabama what to do. This judge is in violation as he was once before over that commandment thing. HE HAS BEEN OVER RULED
            The Federal Constitution trumps state constitution dodo.
            No again, all the Supreme Court has to do is hear as little or as much as they want to. They have already remanded cases back to the Curcuit decision which in and of itself tell you how they will rule IN JUNE.
            when they rule on it all states have to abide to PERIOD.
            The state constitution IS irrelevant once the Supreme Court overrules it.
            No again dodo, it will go to the SCOTUS so that they can rule on the Constitutionality of state gay marriage bans.
            They WILL most certainly find IN JUNE that state bans are a violation of our Constitutionally protected civil / equal rights and simultaneously strike down all the remaining state marriage bans on gay marriage and than that’s it, there are no appeals NOTHING that’s it PERIOD

          • LeftleaningTx

            And it has EVERYTHING to do with ignorance and bigotry.

            Ignorant, bigotry and religious rights have been depriving gay people of their Constitutionally protected civil / equal right and the SCOTUS is going to rule IN JUNE that the entire issues IS a civil / equal rights issue, basically saying that religious and bigoted beliefs are not as important and do not trump our protected rights giving religion a big push back.
            That what is happening as we speak and why it is so important because FINALLY bigotry will be overruled .

          • 1PierreMontagne1

            Shame on you.
            Bigotry will be overruled !?
            We are already seeing increasing amounts of bigotry by gays against non-gays and the gays that practice the bigotry are protected from prosecution. Wake up! Only gays have protected rights and gays can abuse anyone and are protected in law when doing so.
            FINALLY bigotry will be overruled?
            Gays arent finished yet, not until non-gays everywhere are intimidated and that means that bigotry will never end.

          • LeftleaningTx

            Shame on YOU
            What you now see is the ABUSERS (christian reich) having the gall to scream victim because you are not allowed to discriminate any longer.
            WAKE UP!!
            Gay people are just now after decades and decades of abuse by the religious reich finally get what all Americas should have which is their inalienable rights granted in the Constitution our civil and equal rights.
            Yes FINALLY the christian reich will be overruled by the Supreme Court of the United States of America in JUNE that the christian reich have been breaking the law all of these years by denying us our rights over your stone age cult worship beliefs.
            And you are right, we are not finished yet and we won’t be until we have ALL of our rights protected ie our housing rights, our employment right, our hate crime rights, yes all the same rights that you enjoy, yes we won’t stop until we have them ALL.

            Christians are DISGUSTING, they have bullied our and other minority for decades and now the time has finally come where you won’t be able to and to hear YOU scream intimidation is enough to make any normal non cult worshiper want to puke.
            And it’s not just gays, it’s ALL non cult worshipers that want to see you’ll pushed back behind cult wall to practice your stone age beliefs in private and out of the public square.
            So now it time to shut your mouth and let all Americans be treated equally. and this INCLUDES accommodation law where if you are open to the public then must serve ALL of the public and not granted some special right to discriminate because of your cult worship.

          • LeftleaningTx

            Shame on YOU
            What you now see is the ABUSERS (christian reich) having the gall to scream victim because you are not allowed to discriminate any longer.
            WAKE UP!!
            Gay people are just now after decades and decades of abuse by the religious reich finally get what all Americas should have which is their inalienable rights granted in the Constitution our civil and equal rights.
            Yes FINALLY the christian reich will be overruled by the Supreme Court of the United States of America in JUNE that the christian reich have been breaking the law all of these years by denying us our rights over your stone age cult worship beliefs.
            And you are right, we are not finished yet and we won’t be until we have ALL of our rights protected ie our housing rights, our employment right, our hate crime rights, yes all the same rights that you enjoy, yes we won’t stop until we have them ALL.

            Christians are DISGUSTING, they have bullied our and other minority for decades and now the time has finally come where you won’t be able to and to hear YOU scream intimidation is enough to make any normal non cult worshiper want to puke.
            And it’s not just gays, it’s ALL non cult worshipers that want to see you’ll pushed back behind cult wall to practice your stone age beliefs in private and out of the public square.
            So now it time to shut your mouth and let all Americans be treated equally. and this INCLUDES accommodation law where if you are open to the public then must serve ALL of the public and not granted some special right to discriminate because of your cult

          • LeftleaningTx

            Yes the BIGOTS will be overruled IN JUNE.

          • LeftleaningTx

            Your moderator won’t let me reply to you

          • LeftleaningTx

            Shame on YOU
            What you now see is the ABUSERS (christian reich) having the gall to scream victim because you are not allowed to discriminate any longer.
            WAKE UP!!
            Gay people are just now after decades and decades of abuse by the religious reich finally get what all Americas should have which is their inalienable rights granted in the Constitution our civil and equal rights.
            Yes FINALLY the christian reich will be overruled by the Supreme Court of the United States of America in JUNE that the christian reich have been breaking the law all of these years by denying us our rights over your stone age cult worship beliefs.
            And you are right, we are not finished yet and we won’t be until we have ALL of our rights protected ie our housing rights, our employment right, our hate crime rights, yes all the same rights that you enjoy, yes we won’t stop until we have them ALL.

            Christians are DISGUSTING, they have bullied our and other minority for decades and now the time has finally come where you won’t be able to and to hear YOU scream intimidation is enough to make any normal non cult worshiper want to puke.
            And it’s not just gays, it’s ALL non cult worshipers that want to see you’ll pushed back behind cult wall to practice your stone age beliefs in private and out of the public square.
            So now it time to shut your mouth and let all Americans be treated equally. and this INCLUDES accommodation law where if you are open to the public then must serve ALL of the public and not granted some special right to discriminate because of your cult

  • amanofgod

    Russell Moore, the president of the Southern Baptist Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission has no standing from a biblical mindset to lecture worldly leaders about politics that run counter to the expressed will of God as found in the scriptures. He would do well to be silent in this matter. No doubt we Americans love to use our freedom of speech to say everything on our mind, even when we should be slow to speak.

  • michael murphy

    A wolf in sheeps clothing, false brethren, snake in the grass, and a bad fig etc. Matthew 7:13-23.