Hillary Clinton: ‘Religious Beliefs … Have to Be Changed’ Toward Abortion

Clinton ssNEW YORK — Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton spoke favorably about abortion, the contraceptive mandate in Obamacare and homosexuality during a speech at Thursday’s “Women in the World” summit in New York, stating that religious beliefs need to be changed over the issues.

“Far too many women are denied access to reproductive health care and safe childbirth, and laws don’t count for much if they’re not enforced,” Clinton said. “Rights have to exist in practice—not just on paper.”

“Laws have to be backed up with resources and political will,” she continued. “And deep-seated cultural codes, religious beliefs and structural biases have to be changed.”

The former secretary of state also spoke against the popular craft chain Hobby Lobby’s fight against the abortion pill mandate in Obamacare, stating that she believed it was wrong for the company to “take away” the reproductive choices of employees.

“America moves ahead when all women are guaranteed the right to make their own health care choices, not when those choices are taken away by an employer like Hobby Lobby,” she asserted.

“There are those who offer themselves as leaders … who see nothing wrong with denying women equal pay, who offer themselves as leaders who would de-fund the country’s leading provider of family planning,” Clinton said, referring to Planned Parenthood, “and want to let health insurance companies once again charge women just because of our gender.”

The Democratic presidential candidate also asserted that women are being fired from their jobs because of their sexuality.

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“We move forward when gay and transgendered women are embraced as our colleagues and friends, not fired from their jobs because of who they love,” she stated.

“These are not just women’s fights. These have to be America’s fights and the world’s fights,” Clinton told those gathered. “There’s still much to be done in our own country, much more to be done around the world, but I’m confident and optimistic that if we get to work, we will get it done together.”

But some disagree with the former first lady’s assertions, stating that her words demonstrate a liberal, anti-Christian bias.

“In one sense, this shows just how extreme the pro-abortion caucus actually is,” wrote Ed Morrissey for HotAir. “As Hillary admits here—albeit unwittingly—the at-will destruction of the unborn goes against religious beliefs, long-held cultural values, and the structural ‘biases’ that exist to recognize the value of human life.”

“That’s what the ‘clump of cells’ fallacy has to overcome, and as Hillary and the left have discovered, it’s a tall order,” he continued. “And it’s not just abortion, but also same-sex marriage and forced participation in it, euthanasia dressed up as ‘right to die’ movements, and the rest.”

As previously reported, Tony Campolo, former adviser to then-president Bill Clinton, wrote an op-ed earlier this month calling for Christians to vote for Clinton as he asserted that she would reduce abortions in the nation.

“Hillary Clinton is one of the few candidates on the political stage who has a plan for cutting the abortion rate in America by at least 50 percent,” he claimed. “She is committed to addressing [economic] problems, and thus diminishing the urgency that drives so many oppressed women into having abortions. … As a pro-life Democrat, I am encouraged by the possibility that Hillary could be our next president.”


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  • Richard

    Hilary supports the right to kill unborn babies and sin. She obviously doesn’t have the truth in her.

  • Mary Waterton

    The important thing to notice is that democrats are openly discussing the use of Government FORCE to change fundamental Christian doctrines.

    • james

      They’re not changing christian doctrines. They’re creating laws to prevent homosexual discrimination.
      christianity is a means to bully. We don’t like those folks. We don’t support those folks. It was used to support Jim Crow laws and slavery.
      These laws are standing up against bullying.
      Christians then claim that they’re the ones being bullied.
      What a joke.

      • Doug Evans

        Nonsense. If it’s the Christians that are being bullies why are homosexual groups attacking the constitutional right to freedom of religion?

        • james

          It depends on interpretation. When does exercising religious beliefs stand in the way of human rights? Can’t muslims claim murder is for Jihad?
          Just think about it.

          • Doug Evans

            You’re equating having a disagreement over a wedding cake with Murder? You need help. Serious professional help.

          • james

            Absolutely not. I’m explaining the extent to which the right to religion interferes with human rights.

            Like it or not the woman refused to bake a cake on the basis on the customer’s homosexual marriage.
            This is discrimination. It interferes with the rights against discrimination against others for the reason of sexual orientation.

            the basis of her disagreement is religion. The basis of her action is religion.

            Why should religious folks be held to a separate standard than anyone else?

            The reason I used the jihadist example was to illustrate what happens when religion is utilized in our actions with disregard to the basic principles of human rights.
            Unfortunately, religion is a blinding force.

          • William Kirk

            The basis for her action is her right to refuse to act against her convictions and beliefs and her right to do business or to abstain from business as is a right!

          • james

            The basis of her action is her believe. If we support that and ignore human rights then wouldn’t other religious groups be allowed to do what they want? Religion cannot be a basis for discrimination.

      • Josey

        How is it bullying to stand by one’s faith? I don’t see Christians going out filing lawsuits against homosexuals or beating them up. If speaking out one’s faith is bullying then throw out the constitution of freedom of speech for everyone. If it quacks like a duck, walks like one then it is a duck. If homosexuals are so sure of who they are and love themselves for doing what they do, then why care what anyone thinks of them? Why go to such ridiculous lengths to prove they are ok?

        • John Langborne

          Well said Josey!

  • Endtime Survivalguide

    She uses euphemisms because the truth is hidden in the marketing….ie, reproductive health care and safe childbirth=ABORTION. When you see euphemisms and think-speak in someone’s discourse, lying and hiding the truth is occurring. WOMEN are not proud of killing their babies and Hillary knows it, giving them cover to hide it.

  • FoJC_Forever

    Abortion isn’t health care. Abortion is murder. The innocent blood cries for Justice and Judgement is coming.

    Hillary Clinton is not only a murderer, but as murders go, she’s an apt liar, extremely unethical, and is willing to destroy evidence that would reveal she is nothing more than a criminal.

    She is more like Hitler than any other POTUS candidate to date.

    • gods need not apply

      But it must be assumed that god agrees with abortion (and the bible actually gives instructions for one in Numbers 5:11-21). God orders the murder of unborn children in Numbers 31:17, Hosea 13:16, 2 Kings 15:16. So you are right. “The innocent blood cries for justice”

      I am not a supporter of Hillary Clinton, but I do agree with her that a company’s religious structuring should not take precedence over a woman’s right to choose to do with her body as she will. I agree with the idea that biblical condoned subjugation of genders, races, orientations no longer be tolerated.

      • FoJC_Forever

        Numbers 5:11-21 and 31:17 are not about abortion.

        Hosea 13:16 is not God ordering abortions, but foretelling destruction.

        Menahem, in 2 Kings 15:16, did what was evil in the sight of the LORD, including his “ripping open” the pregnant women.

        You must have thought you scored some find by discovering these Scriptures, but you neither understand them and are lying about the content and context.

        Christians, followers of Jesus Christ, Disciples of Christ, Disciples of Jesus, those who belong the the Sect of the Nazarene – all these terms and others refer to those of us who are in Covenant with God through His Word and Son, Jesus Christ – live and operate under this New Testament. Under the New Testament, new Covenant, those who practice homosexuality are practicing sin. Furthermore, the common consensus is becoming that God created and designed people to be homosexual, when Scripture clearly states He did not. The Holy Spirit also confirms this Truth.

        God is not ordering anyone to murder babies while they are growing in their mother’s wombs.

        It wasn’t the “subjugation of races (skin color)” which has been order by God under the Old Testament, the subjugation was bringing those who would not serve God in line and under those who will and do serve God. Under the NT, we live a different life as we follow Jesus, and it is not one of subjugating others to our leadership or will, nor executing God’s Justice upon the Wicked and Pagan living on the earth.

        God will execute Justice upon the Wicked and Pagan in His Way and Time, and it will be Righteous.

        Outlawing abortion, which it should be, is not subjugating people, but protecting the tenderest and most vulnerable human beings which exist. Neither you, nor Hillary Clinton, nor her supports, nor anyone else on this earth has the Right and Calling from God to murder these little ones.

      • WorldGoneCrazy

        “I do agree with her that a company’s religious structuring should not take precedence over a woman’s right to choose to do with her body as she will”

        But there is another body at stake – that of the preborn human being in the womb. You pro-aborts always seem to forget that. Furthermore, your argument holds for rape: I, as a male, should be able to do with my body as I will, according to your poor logic.

      • Doug Evans

        Dude – please stop. Quoting the bible out of context is worse than making up lies out of the thin air like that whole “biblical condoned subjugation of genders, races, orientations” guff. (Seriously – using Jewish Law to attack Christians? Why not just use Canadian law – it would be just as logical) And when a woman is pregnant itn’s just not “Her body” any more but the body of her son or daughter too. It’s about responsibility and acting like a grown up.

      • birds and cages

        Numbers 31:17 – “Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately.”

        Hosea 13:16 – “Samaria will be held guilty, For she has rebelled against her God. They will fall by the sword, Their little ones will be dashed in pieces, And their pregnant women will be ripped open.”

        2 Kings 15:16 – “At that time Menahem, starting out from Tirzah, attacked Tiphsah and everyone in the city and its vicinity, because they refused to open their gates. He sacked Tiphsah and ripped open all the pregnant women.”

        None of these verses are implying abortion. The quotes of “ripping open pregnant women” are punishments from God for women worshiping leaders of other nations (hence “For she has rebelled against her God”). An abortion is an act a women chooses willingly, which is different from a punishment. So I think you’re misunderstanding the verses you gave.

        Also, God gives his perspective on an unborn child several times:

        “Behold, children are a gift of the Lord, the fruit of the womb is a reward” (Ps. 127:3).

        “Know that the Lord Himself is God; it is He who has made us, and not we ourselves” (Ps. 100:3).

        “Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from
        the womb, “I, the Lord, am the maker of all things” (Is. 44:24).

        “Your hands fashioned and made me” (Job 10:8).

        So no, God does not approve of abortion.

    • james

      She is not like hitler. Abortion is not murder. Get over it. In the first trimester the fetus is like a kidney. Let people do what they want with their own bodies. Don’t impose your religious (Shariaesque laws) on our country.

      • FoJC_Forever

        Christianity is nothing like Islam. Islam is a pagan religion.

        As long as what people do with their own bodies is not murdering another human being, then fine, but freedom doesn’t allow people to harm whom they choose.

        All humans begin as a “fetus”. Humans do not grow from anything like a kidney. Your devaluing of human life come straight from Satan. Life is imparted from the father and mother at the time of conception. God put the power of procreation inside mankind and when a human body is conceived, it receives spirit, then a soul is formed. What is aborted (murdered) is a human being.

        She is more like Hitler than any other candidate we’ve had to date. In the heart of Hitler was murder, genocide, and he was appealing to many. There will never be anyone exactly like Hitler, but those who embrace murder as a legal and moral right are no better than him.

      • John Boyt

        James you are full of crap. The fetus has its own blood supply, therefore it is not part of the woman’s body. The woman already practiced her rights when she decided whether or not to have sexual intercourse, which she knows can lead to pregnancy. Now that she is pregnant, she must accept the responsibility of her decision. Abortion is murder unless the pregnancy is a threat to the woman. People that think like you are no different than those that carry out mass murder and then think nothing of it.

  • ProLife

    Whatever Hillary, whatever.

  • james

    The religious folk below scare the hell out of me.
    They make decisions not based on logic and facts but based on some book from thousands of years ago. They utilize the teachings of the son of a father who is also the son who is a ghost.
    Abortion is necessary. It gives options for people. Would you like to fill up our foster care system even more? Would you like unqualified people and impoverished folks to raise children they can’t really afford?
    Idiots.
    It’s a shame you believe god will help you. God doesn’t help all folks.
    That’s why there are so many suffering folks in the world.
    Look at Africa. They were just fucking fine before missionaries and fuckers preaching the word of god came in with their armies. They fucked the whole continent up “for god”

    • WorldGoneCrazy

      “Abortion is necessary.”

      I heard that about slavery and Jew gassing too. The “logic” of the pro-abort is truly reprehensible.

      • james

        You would have to explain. like always, religious folk give vague and unsupported lines of “logic” with no facts.

        • WorldGoneCrazy

          Your argument that “abortion is necessary” was used in the days of slavery to say that “slavery is necessary” to bring in the crop and for the textile mills, and that “gassing Jews is necessary” to purify the race. You argument can be used in support of any atrocity.

          • james

            You are absolutely right. Slavery was and still is the backbone of America and her economic prowess. Was it necessary? Absolutely not. It was immoral by anyone’s standard. Kidnapping, murder, rape, abuse etc. When has that ever been ok? It was argued by southern planters who sought to gain. They were, hello, “Christians” and thought God would justify their beliefs. The KKK formed to maintain racism and uphold white protestant christians. The bible even argues for slavery.

            Gassing of Jews was the rhetoric and actions of some crazy facists that had no fact or evidence to back them up. To compare us to them is insanity.

            I support abortion because a woman has the right to do what she wishes with her body. I support choice. I support freedom. I support abortion in the first trimester because the child is not alive.

            Why don’t abortion folk protect wildlife the same way?
            Hypocritical much?

          • William Kirk

            Is there a freedom you do not support or do you support all freedom. Not a sensible argument.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “It was immoral by anyone’s standard. ”

            False – slavery is not objectively immoral under a-theism. You are stealing from God in order to assert it. Thank you for acknowledging Him! Don’t blame me: take it up with your “pope” and “cardinals” who agree with me:

            “In a universe of blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won’t find any rhyme or reason in it, or any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference… DNA neither knows nor cares. DNA just is. And we dance to its music.” (Richard Dawkins, River Out of Eden: A Darwinian View of Life (1995))

            “Let me summarize my views on what modern evolutionary biology tells us loud and clear — and these are basically Darwin’s views. There are no gods, no purposes, and no goal-directed forces of any kind. There is no life after death. When I die, I am absolutely certain that I am going to be dead. That’s the end of me. There is no ultimate foundation for ethics, no ultimate meaning in life, and no free will for humans, either.” — a-theist William Provine

            “The position of the modern evolutionist is that humans have an awareness of morality because such an awareness of biological worth. Morality is a biological adaptation no less than are hands and feet and teeth. Considered as a rationally justifiable set of claims about an objective something, ethics is illusory. I appreciate when someone says, ‘Love thy neighbor as thyself,’ they think they are referring above and beyond themselves. Nevertheless, such reference is truly without foundation. Morality is just an aid to survival and reproduction, . . . and any deeper meaning is illusory.” (Michael Ruse, “Evolutionary Theory and Christian Ethics,” in The Darwinian Paradigm (London: Routledge, 1989), pp. 262-269).

          • james

            See, unlike Christians, I do not blindly follow sources of “authority”. I form my own opinions based on fact, logic, research, and reasoning. Slavery is immoral. Why? it caused massive physical and psychological harm for no good reason other than greed.

            I am not stealing from god. I am using a humanist point of view. Regarding Dawkins and all those other folk. I don’t look to them as sources as “absolute truth” and blind myself like Christians do with the bible. I look to them as references. I pick the best and most valid arguments and apply them.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “Slavery is immoral. Why? it caused massive physical and psychological harm for no good reason other than greed.”

            Not a good qualifier: it happens all the time in the animal kingdom. Besides, take it up with Dawkins and other a-theists, who know that you cannot make objective moral claims without stealing from God.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “I support abortion because a woman has the right to do what she wishes with her body.”

            It’s not HER body we are discussing here: it’s his or her body inside the womb. That was a Hail Mary by you. Besides, your argument extends to rape and murder – if we are not limited on what we can do with our own bodies. Pathetic!

            “I support choice.”

            Except for the baby. I support choice too: for chocolate, the car I drive, the schools I send my kids too, etc. Aren’t you anti-choice when it comes to rape, murder, burglary?!?

            “I support freedom.”

            You confuse “freedom” with “autonomy.”

            “Why don’t abortion folk protect wildlife the same way? Hypocritical much?”

            No, it is the pro-aborts who are hypocrites here. You guys support “save the baby whales,” but not “save the baby humans.” How sick is that?!?

            I can set you up for an appointment for post-abortion counseling at your nearest crisis pregnancy center. Just let me know the city and state you live in.

          • james

            A women should have the right to choose contraceptions, and anything related to sex with her own body.
            It doesn’t extend to rape and murder. That’s common sense stuff.

            Choice is part of our freedom. You can get into all the nitty gritty but thats that’s the gist of it. The fetus is not a baby. Get over it. It’s not living. It cannot function as a living organism.
            Absolutely incorrect. They are not babies yet. They are fetuses. Growing and developing into a living organism. Take any three month fetus out and it could never function. Life does not begin at conception.
            Further, Christians and fundamentalist Christians are the biggest hypocrites in existence.

            I could go on about how their hypocrisy but it would take too long and they’re too blinded to accept fact and logic.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “It doesn’t extend to rape and murder.”

            Why not? under a-theism there is nothing whatsoever wrong with rape and murder. Rape happens all the time in the animal kingdom. Murder? Ever see a lion take out a gazelle?

            “Life does not begin at conception.”

            You fail human biology 101:

            “Human development begins after the union of male and female gametes or germ cells during a process known as fertilization (conception). “Fertilization is a sequence of events that begins with the contact of a sperm (spermatozoon) with a secondary oocyte (ovum) and ends with the fusion of their pronuclei (the haploid nuclei of the sperm and ovum) and the mingling of their chromosomes to form a new cell. This fertilized ovum, known as a zygote, is a large diploid cell that is the beginning, or primordium, of a human being.”
            [Moore, Keith L. Essentials of Human Embryology. Toronto: B.C. Decker Inc, 1988, p.2]

            “The development of a human being begins with fertilization, a process by which two highly specialized cells, the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female, unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote.”
            [Langman, Jan. Medical Embryology. 3rd edition. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1975, p. 3]

            “The development of a human begins with fertilization, a process by which the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote.”
            [Sadler, T.W. Langman’s Medical Embryology. 7th edition. Baltimore: Williams & Wilkins 1995, p. 3]

            “Further, Christians and fundamentalist Christians are the biggest hypocrites in existence.”

            You are stealing from God to assert an objective moral claim. (Thank you for acknowledging Him!) There are no such things as objective moral claims and duties under your a-theism. Take it up with your “pope” Dawkins:

            “In a universe of blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won’t find any rhyme or reason in it, or any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference… DNA neither knows nor cares. DNA just is. And we dance to its music.” (Richard Dawkins, River Out of Eden: A Darwinian View of Life (1995))

          • FoJC_Forever

            Non-living things do not grow and develop. Life grows and develops, and the child is a child at the point of conception. This is when human life begins to grow and develop. Is a person a person when they are 2 seconds out of the womb, or are they a person when they can comprehend and intelligently interact with their environment?

            Human life begins at conception and abortion is murdering human life.

          • martin

            It’s not HER body

            ———————————–
            But it is her body used as life-support by the fetus and the fetus has no right to have its existence extended by the woman.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            What about the baby’s body? You spent a lot of words there just to say “I killing babies in the womb.” Two questions:

            1. Do human beings have intrinsic moral value? (Are humans valuable in and of themselves and not as a means to an end?)
            2. Is what is located in the woman’s womb, post-conception, a human being?

          • martin

            You are wrong believing that I love killing fetuses.I only believe in the idea of body autonomy .Regarding your first question…Body autonomy is the right to not have your body used as life-support by another person.So ,you have the right to disconnect someone from your body.You could reply that there is a difference between disconnecting a person and killing a person.Unfortunately,
            There are few methods of abortion that only let the fetus to die(and not violating the body autonomy of the fetus).I want to ask you:do you have a problem with chemical abortions or abortions by hyseroctomy?They only disconnect the fetus from the mother s body and then letting it to die.The body of the fetus is not distroyed in these cases.It is still intacted.Of courses,the fetus dies even if it is not killed because it is disconnect from the body of the woman.If your answer is negative,then you do not have a problem with the fact that the body of the fetus is

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            What about the bodily autonomy of the human being in the womb? Do you not recognize that there are two bodies here?!? That child is exactly where she is supposed to be. And answer my two questions – why are you afraid?

          • martin

            Would you have a problem with the abortion if there were a method that would only disconnect the fetus from the woman s body and then being let to die?In this case,abortion would not violate the body autonomy of the fetus ,but it would still result in its death.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Of course I would. Yes, it would in fact violate the bodily autonomy of the child in the womb by removing her from her life-necessary environment, just as if I smothered you with a pillow, it would remove you from your life-necessary oxygen-rich environment.

          • martin

            Your analogy is wrong ,because the person A does not use the body of person B as life-support.If it were a such situation,then person B would have the right to use lethal force to stop to provide life -support to person A(especially if person A would not have existed now ,if B had not begun to provide life support).

          • martin

            2.The body autonomy argument admits not only that the fetus is a human being,but also that the fetus is a person from its conception.However,the woman has no duty to extend the life of the person,by letting to use her body.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Oh yes, bodily autonomy:

            1. The child has a relationship to his mother. You are saying that a mother can intentionally kill her child merely because the child is dependent on the mother’s body in the womb.
            2. An unborn child is exactly where she belongs. You are removing her from her natural environment – that she depends on to survive – for your own convenience. By the same argument, I could remove you from your oxygen-rich environment by smothering you with a pillow. Or duct taping your face.
            3. Abortion is not unplugging a child from the womb. Check out some videos sometime. Even if you can unplug the child from the room, then I can unplug you from your oxygen-rich environment by smothering you.
            4. In believing in bodily autonomy, this would apply to a mother doing all sorts of dangerous things with her body while pregnant, even if she is not trying to abort. Like smoking, drinking, drugging. Would you actually argue that she has a “right” to do those things? Or are they irresponsible?
            5. Your argument requires you to support abortion even near full-term. That places you in a VERY immoral, and highly unpopular, position.
            6. Your argument actually applies to babies outside of the womb who are very dependent on their mother’s bodies – to protect, nourish, clean, and provide for them.
            7. Based on your autonomy argument, I should be able to rape as I please and a whole lot of other wickedness.
            8. The baby in the womb has rights for her body too. Your rights cannot trump her right to life.

          • martin

            1.The relationship does not matter.
            2.Are you the owner of the oxygen-rich environment?If yes ,then you have a right to remove me .I do not have a right to use your property in order to avoid death.
            3.Only moral absolutists believe that the difference between killing and unplugging always matters.It results anyway in its death.
            4.Body autonomy means that you finally have the right to deny the use of your body to another person,not necessary that you have a right to kill it or to harm it with drugs.Only if killing him is the only solution to disconnect from your body you have a right to use lethal force.
            5.Actually,I support late-term abortions .I do not care if my position is unpopular.And no,my position is very moral and consistent,because it respects the woman s right to control her body at anytime and for any reason.The fact that there are many people who are immoral or morally inconsistent is not my problem.
            6.The born children do not use the bodies of their parents directly and certainly not 24 hours.
            7.You really do not understand the concept of body autonomy.
            8.There is no right to live as a parasite in the body of another person.(I use the word “parasite” in a metaphoric sense,not in a biological sense).

            You presented all the arguments against body autonomy,except the most important the responsibility objection.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            1. The relationship most certainly DOES matter. What kind of monster says to her own child “My body – you can’t use it – go die?!?” If I were kidnapped and hooked up to a violinist who was my child, then I most certainly would stay connected for 9 months. We would talk and sing hymns and play games and laugh and read books to each other and listen to music and watch movies and praise God and LIVE! But most importantly, if I were kidnapped and hooked up to a violinist I had never met, I also would consider it my objective moral duty, as a Christian, to remain hooked up for 9 months. And, if the person was not a Christian, she either would be after 9 months or she would be insane and wish she had been hooked up to anyone else on the planet. 🙂

            Note that such an objective moral duty to remain hooked up to a total stranger cannot be grounded under a-theism (substitute “physically handicapped” for “mentally handicapped” in the following):

            “What are we to say about them [the mentally handicapped]? The natural conclusion, according to the doctrine we are considering [Darwinism], would be that their status is that of mere animals. And perhaps we should go on to conclude that
            they may be used as non-human animals are used – perhaps as laboratory subjects, or as food.” James Rachels “Created from Animals: The Moral Implications of Darwinism,” p 186.

            2. I concede the point. I do not own the oxygen. Very well done!

            3. I AM a moral absolutist, or, better, an objective moralist. That is one of many things that makes the Christian worldview superior to the a-theistic one. it is impossible to objectively condemn slavery, Jew gassing, and abortion under a-theism.

            4. Yes, that may be bodily autonomy, but it shows why such a view is objectively immoral. Under this view, the right to bodily autonomy could be asserted via positive action, not inaction, to kill another human being. In that sense, it is very different from being unwilling to donate a kidney or the like.

            5. That is sick. Have you ever seen a late term abortion? Like on the net? (google “late term abortion video”) Or read the description even? (see: http://www .priestsforlife .org/resources/photosassorted/ – just take out the spaces before the dots.) If you can do that and still support late term abortions, I really think you should stay at least 2000 feet away from children, give up your a-theism, and consider the evidence for the Resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth. frankly, you should do the last two things in my list anyway.

            6. That is irrelevant. They still use their bodies, so they are violating bodily autonomy according to your view. This is probably why Peter Singer and many other a-theists are in favor of abortion up to 2 years of age. I have a friend who said they should be allowed up to 18 years of age, because “children are the property of their parents.” Sick!

            7. I think you are conceding the point aren’t you? Rape is “my body, my choice.”

            8. Yes, you used the word “parasite” and then you had to back off of the term because you know it is a false term biologically. That is a win for our side too! Thank you!

            Martin, on this Mother’s Day, just remember one thing:
            Smile! Your Mom chose life! God bless!

          • martin

            You confuse “freedom” with “autonomy.”

            ——————————————————————
            Because freedom is autonomy.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “Autonomy: (philosophy)

            the doctrine that the individual human will is or ought to be governed only by its own principles and laws, See also categorical imperative.

            the state in which one’s actions are autonomous”

            “Personal (or individual) autonomy should also be distinguished from freedom, although again, there are many renderings of these concepts, and certainly some conceptions of positive freedom will be equivalent to what is often meant by autonomy (Berlin 1969, 131–34). Generally, one can distinguish autonomy from freedom in that the latter concerns the ability to act, without external or internal constraints and also (on some conceptions) with sufficient resources and power to make one’s desires effective (Berlin 1969, Crocker 1980, MacCallum 1967). Autonomy concerns the independence and authenticity of the desires (values, emotions, etc.) that move one to act in the first place.” Stanford University Encyclopedia of Philosophy

            So, when an individual murders another, he is exercising his autonomy outside of any external moral code. But, a person could be perfectly free, but not autonomous in a society with an external code, because the person can also be free to limit his or actions to remain within the moral code.

            In summary, when a person says they desire freedom, but use it as justification to murder, he is really talking about autonomy – his own subjective moral code.

          • KenS

            It is not only her body she is dong something to, there is another body inside her that she is killing. I am so tired of you idiots, using that moniker of it’s her body.

    • mark

      Amen! I think religion is fine as long as it stays in your own home or church, and nothing more

    • Tux

      “Abortion is necessary. It gives options for people. Would you like to fill up our foster care system even more? “. Kill them because they cost us money.

      “Would you like unqualified people and impoverished folks to raise children they can’t really afford?” No, if they really loved them and wanted what was best for them they could adopt the children out.

      “They make decisions not based on logic and facts but based on some book from thousands of years ago” – But the book you are referring to contains facts. And logic. So why not base decisions on it?

      Also – keep your profanity to yourself. Not appropriate for this website.

      • james

        Profanity is not inappropriate. It is one of the best ways to not only express emotion but to get your point across.

        It’s not murder. First trimester abortion is ok.
        The fetus is no more actively alive than a kidney.

        Again, allowing them to adopt the child out fills up the foster care system.
        I want every child to be loved by their parent and hopefully the parents are their birth parents.
        I want every child to be raised with good education and with food on their table. Not as an accident or unwanted.

        It contains little fact and little logic as a whole.
        Why would it be the ultimate truth if it had to be amended years later by some Jesus guy.
        Why would it have to be interpreted in thousands of way if it was the truth? Look at the various sects of Christianity! They all claim they are the proper way to jesus and salvation. Not to mention other religions.
        Furthermore, would you trust a document with 10 wrong statements filled in by the occasional single truth?
        ABSOLUTELY NOT!

        • WorldGoneCrazy

          “The fetus is no more actively alive than a kidney.”

          False. You fail Human Biology 101. The zygote, embryo, and fetus are all alive and unique human individuals from the moment of conception. I thought that it was we religious folk who didn’t know science and logic?!? 🙂

          “I want every child to be loved by their parent and hopefully the parents are their birth parents. I want every child to be raised with good education and with food on their table. Not as an accident or unwanted.”

          So do we: you forget the adoption option. The solution to love and education and food is not to kill an innocent defenseless human being in the womb. That is not love and it is not what educated and moral people should be pushing.

          • james

            I’m so sorry but you are quite wrong.
            They are not alive from the moment of conception.
            Being alive requires all parts of the body to work together as a single unit.
            In the first trimester this is simply not true. Until a fetus feels pain, abortion should be legal.

            Absolutely incorrect. You seem to be too trusting in humanity.
            Look. Being in the foster care system is not a great place to be.
            Abuses and psychological damage can occur and do occur quite frequently. look at the ghettos and other impoverished areas. How much improvement in quality of life would there be if not so many children were exposed to gangs, drugs and violence?
            Look it sounds really cynical and it is. But, life is cynical.
            It requires very critical and controversial thinking to further society.

            Look if christians dont want abortion, I have a solution. Adopt every single baby that would have been aborted. Simple as that.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “They are not alive from the moment of conception. Being alive requires all parts of the body to work together as a single unit. ”

            That’s a new one! Based on that definition of life, then there are a LOT of disabled people who are not alive in your world. Furthermore, even the sperm and egg are alive prior to conception, although at that point, they do not represent a unique human individual. Nice try hiding behind an arbitrary qualifier so that you can rationalize killing human beings in the womb.

            “Human development begins after the union of male and female gametes or germ cells during a process known as fertilization (conception).
            “Fertilization is a sequence of events that begins with the contact of a sperm (spermatozoon) with a secondary oocyte (ovum) and ends with the fusion of their pronuclei (the haploid nuclei of the sperm and ovum) and the mingling of their chromosomes to form a new cell. This fertilized ovum, known as a zygote, is a large diploid cell that is the beginning, or primordium, of a human being.”
            [Moore, Keith L. Essentials of Human Embryology. Toronto: B.C. Decker Inc, 1988, p.2

            “Until a fetus feels pain, abortion should be legal.”

            Wow – you just justified murder for anyone who is under anesthesia! Yours is the rant of someone trapped in the morally bankrupt “religion” of survival of the fittest a-theism, with a lot of baby sacrifice on the side.

            “Being in the foster care system is not a great place to be. ”

            Once again, you have ignored the adoption option! Is your thirst for baby’s blood so extreme that it has affected your ability to think logically?!?

            “Look if christians dont want abortion, I have a solution. Adopt every single baby that would have been aborted.”

            We do adopt babies AND there are enough adoptive parents to take in each child who is aborted. What a false dichotomy! Anything to justify killing the innocents! “Look, if you Jew lovers don’t like Jew gassing, you have to adopt every single Jew or you can’t condemn Jew gassing.” “If you slave lovers don’t like us owning black people, you have to adopt every single slave or you cannot condemn slavery.”

            How many abortions have you had that your moral compass is so broken?

          • james

            According to a 2010 review by Britain’s Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, “most neuroscientists believe that the cortex is necessary for pain perception.” The cortex does not become functional until at least the 26th week of a fetus’ development, long after most abortions are performed. This finding was endorsed in 2012 by the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, [1]which stated that that there is “no legitimate scientific information that supports the statement that a fetus experiences pain.” [142] A 2005 University of California at San Francisco study said fetuses probably can’t feel pain until the 29th or 30th week of gestation. [166] Abortions that late into a pregnancy are extremely rare and are often restricted by state laws. [164] According to Stuart W. G. Derbyshire, PhD, Senior Lecturer at the University of Birmingham (England), “…fetuses cannot be held to experience pain. Not only has the biological development not yet occurred to support pain experience, but the environment after birth, so necessary to the development of pain experience, is also yet to occur.” [10] The “flinching” and other reactions seen in fetuses when they detect pain stimuli are mere reflexes, not an indication that the fetus is perceiving or “feeling” anything. [135] [145]

            Straight copy paste.

            By the way, that textbook you pulled that out of is touching on some gray area. Scientists are still trying to define when life begins and the debate rages on. So the argument is equally valid at this point for both sides. Sorry, no absolute truth here.

            do you understand how many babies are not adopted?
            What kind of a difficult life do you want them to live?

            It’s not murder. No matter how you put it. It is not murder. Justifying murder is impossible.
            But again, this isn’t murder.
            Thus, I propose the solution once again. Go ahead and adopt all the babies. As for me, I have had no abortions. I’m more responsible than that.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “”most neuroscientists believe that the cortex is necessary for pain perception.””

            We do not care about pain perception, unless you are going to make an argument for murdering people under anesthesia.

            “By the way, that textbook you pulled that out of is touching on some gray area. Scientists are still trying to define when life begins and the debate rages on.”

            Please leave the 60’s behind – the fact that life begins at conception is now well-established. Welcome to the 21st century!

            “As for me, I have had no abortions. I’m more responsible than that.”

            What is irresponsible about abortions?!? If abortion is a “right,” it should be exercised as much as possible. Your statement PROVES that you know that abortion murders a human being. Thank you for outting yourself!

  • Jwilliams

    ““America moves ahead when all women are guaranteed the right to make their own health care choices, not when those choices are taken away by an employer like Hobby Lobby,” she asserted.”

  • Dream Theater Moment of Reason

    “And deep-seated cultural codes, religious beliefs”. No Hillary, The Democratic presidential candidate also asserted that women are being fired from their jobs because of their sexuality. Where Hillary?. Hillary, so your in support of the morning after pill, No Hillary. Would I vote for you after saying such things? No Hillary

  • Glenn Rogers

    A Christian will welcome persecution, ya’ll ready?

  • mark

    And yet the kids arriving here from central america escaping drug and gang violence are getting deported from the same anti-abortion nuts.

  • robertzaccour

    She obviously doesn’t care about unborn children’s rights. Since when does the “inconvenience” of a baby justify killing them?

  • robertzaccour

    Abortion is NOT healthcare.

  • 441019

    I met a young Hispanic woman once who was having an abortion simply because she already had one child and she didn’t want a second one. She was not a single woman–she had a devoted husband. Many times women have an abortion because they think it’s just not the “right time” to have a child. And many times a woman or teenage girl is pressured by her boyfriend, parents, or friends into having an abortion. So it is not always a desperate situation and it is not always the woman’s choice.

    My parents were very poor, yet they raised nine children.

    Abortion has a lot to do with our culture, which encourages sexual relations outside of marriage, which doesn’t place enough value on human life and on personal responsibility and accountability, which separates intercourse from procreation, and which doesn’t place enough value on marriage.

  • http://www.moveupmarketinggroup.com Linda Tannen

    Abortion is murder. It’s actually God’s decision to take a life and not ours. But abortion makes it easy to kill sweet innocent beings. Psalm 127:3 explains that children are a blessing. That means all children are. And all mothers should respect that. Killing off babies is just as bad perhaps worse than killing adults.. it is all a sin.. thank goodness for Christ.

    • oregon_man

      Abortion is not murder. It is a stain and failure of human civilization, a blight as we fail to take away the reasons people get abortions. Thank God our Constitution separates church and states such that those who claim to speak for God may never rule over this land. It is a fetus, not a baby despite all your wishful thinking.

      • KenS

        fetus: (used chiefly of viviparous mammals) the young of an animal in the womb or egg, especially in the later stages of development when the body structures are in the recognizable form of its kind, in humans after the end of the second month of gestation.

        young of an animal = those who have youth; young persons collectively:
        the educated young of today; a game for young and old.
        10.
        young offspring:
        a mother hen protecting her young.

        There you have it from the dictionary: fetus is the offspring (young) of an animal in the womb, i.e. baby

        Thank you for helping to prove our point.

  • Regina Forbes

    “Far too many women are denied access to reproductive health care and
    safe childbirth, and laws don’t count for much if they’re not enforced,”
    I would like to know to which specific incidents to which Clinton is implying or referring to. Aside from major complications, childbirth has always been safe here in the US. No amount of people marching in front of a building will change that. And as far as women being denied access to safe childbirth, there are no blockades in front of hospitals denying pregnant women access so that they may give birth to their child.

    “America moves ahead when all women are guaranteed the right to make
    their own health care choices, not when those choices are taken away by
    an employer like Hobby Lobby,”
    Clinton is implying that Hobby Lobby is somehow preventing women from making their own healthcare decisions. No company ever has that ability to have access to a person’s medical records- that would go against HIPAA laws. No company can force a woman not to make certain health decisions if she
    so chooses. The issue is the insurance they provide may not cover it- However, “Obamacare” is available as an alternative and so is Planned Parenthood- to cover that “gap”.

  • gregkliebigsr

    IT AIN’T GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION HILLARY !
    IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH WHAT GOD SAYS ! !
    A MESSAGE, FROM, THE GOD OF ALL CREATION, TO THOSE ABORTIONISTS AND THOSE WHO UPHOLD ABORTION !!
    GOD SAYS,” THOU SHALT NOT KILL!” Deuteronomy 5:17. Let me be as clear as possible, YOU SHALL DO NO MURDER!
    Proverbs 6: 16. These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: 17. A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed INNOCENT BLOOD ! YAHWEH HAS SPOKEN: HIS WORDS!

    The sin of abortion is a forgivable sin, BUT, a person must confess and repent of their sin to the LORD JESUS; I John 1:8-9
    —————————–
    THE MEANING OF LIFE!
    The GOD of all creation made me!
    The GOD who made me LOVES me!!
    The GOD who made me and loves me wants to
    LIVE IN ME AND THROUGH ME!!!
    John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
    Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me !!!

    This is what YESHUA HAS SAID ON THE MATTER!! AMEN!
    ABORTION ROBS GOD OF NEW HUMANS TO LOVE AND FELLOWSHIP WITH AND DWELL IN! THAT, IS WHY YAHWEH (GOD) HATES ABORTION!

    WHAT GOD SAYS, NOT WHAT HUMANITY SAYS !!

    • oregon_man

      No God wrote the bible. It was written by men. They might claim to speak for God but once again a claim of a “man”. The bible has been embellished, edited, modified down through generations. Neither God nor the bible say “there shall be no abortion”. You’re all hot and hysterical looking at radical anti-abortion propaganda. Cool off and relax, get a grip on yourself.

  • Josey

    Who does she think she is dictating that a Christian’s belief that murder of innocents is wrong is a biased thought and needs to change? Is she above God? NO, she isn’t but she definitely has sold her soul for political gain by declaring such things and she’ll stand before Almighty God soon enough and be dragged to a devil’s hell for the things she has said, promoted and done unless she repents but I believe there are some who sell themselves for power and their hearts are reprobate and no repentance is found for them. King Ahabs wife queen Jezebel is a perfect example of what happens to those who defy God, she wasn’t even buried because the wild dogs ate her so that nothing of her was found to be buried. Hillary should be afraid and truly repent soon if there is repentance granted to her.

  • Josey

    Psalm 139:13 For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb.

  • Peter Leh

    religious beliefs don’t change. education make all the difference and drives religious interpretations.

  • Craig Ewoldt

    Hillary makes three mistakes. Hobby Lobby does nothing to keep their employees from getting an abortion. They just won’t pay for it. It is a repeated lie that if someone won’t pay for an abortion, they are keeping a woman from getting one. If Hillary wants every woman to have money for an abortion, why doesn’t she start a voluntary fund so those who support abortion can give to it, rather than forcing everyone to pay?
    Secondly, Hillary can use the government to try and force people to change their beliefs. Beliefs cannot be changed by force. Third, she still has the science to deal with. She will also have to get rid of Dr. Seuss who tells children that a person is a person no matter how small.

  • Kachina

    Hillary’s statement defines who she is and SHE IS NOT OF GOD! We must keep this woman out of our White House!