Satanic Temple Members Who Sought to Pray on Football Field Met With ‘Jesus’ Chants

Bremerton-compressedBREMERTON, Wash. — Members of the Satanic Temple of Seattle were met with chants of “Jesus” by students and others after they were spotted last night outside of a football game where they had sought to pray on field.

The move was in response to the controversy over Bremerton High School Coach Joe Kennedy, who prayed at the 50-yard line last Friday despite instructions from the school district that he could not allow students to join him in his personal prayers.

According to reports, several students had asked members of the Satanic Temple, who are actually believed to be atheists and agnostics, to attend Thursday’s game. The group had asked the district for permission to pray on field in order to make a point about Kennedy’s prayers, but backed off after it was announced that the coach had been placed on leave until he agrees to discontinue his practice of praying on field at the conclusion of games.

The Bremerton Patriot reports that over a dozen black-robed Satanic Temple members—and one donning horns on her head—appeared outside the fence during the game, generating mixed reaction from attendees. Some climbed the fence and began chanting the name of Jesus. One student called out, “May I take a moment of your time to speak about Jesus Christ?”

When a reporter asked if Temple members were going to take the field, chapter head Lilith Starr replied with a laugh, “No, sorry. We’re pacifists.”

Coach Kennedy attended the game, but remained in the stands. He prayed with couple Randy and Sharlene Davis, who were present as a show of support.

“I support what the coach is doing,” Randy Davis told the Bremerton Patriot. “This country was founded on religious freedom … I support his right to worship as he chooses.”

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As previously reported, on Wednesday night, the Bremerton School District released a four-page letter outlining that Kennedy had been placed on paid leave over his ongoing prayer practice.

“Kennedy’s conduct poses a genuine risk that the district will be liable for violating the federal and state constitutional rights of students or others,” it stated. “For this reason, Kennedy will not be allowed to further violate the district’s directives.”

The letter said that Kennedy will not be allowed to serve as coach until he agrees to stop praying on the field. The district had presented Kennedy with the option of praying inside of the stadium in a place where none would see him, but he declined.

“[L]ike I should be ashamed of my faith and like I should have to hide it,” Kennedy told Fox and Friends on Friday.

The Liberty Institute, which is providing free legal representation for the coach, believes that Kennedy’s religious rights are being violated.

“No reasonable observer could conclude that a football coach who waits until the game is over and the players have left the field and then walks to mid-field to say a short, private, personal prayer is speaking on behalf of the state,” the group wrote in a letter to the district.

“Quite the opposite, Coach Kennedy is engaged in private religious expression upon which the state may not infringe,” it said. “In fact, any attempt by Bremerton School District to ban or prohibit Coach Kennedy—or any private citizen—from praying violates the First Amendment.”

While the Bremerton School District placed Kennedy on leave out of concern that it could be leveled with a lawsuit if the prayers continued, the Liberty Institute says that it is considering filing a suit against the district for restricting Kennedy’s religious expression.

“The school district violated federal law by denying Coach Kennedy’s request for religious accommodation. Their violation of the law cannot go unanswered,” said Senior Counsel Mike Berry. “We are committed to protecting Coach Kennedy’s right to religious freedom.”


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  • Guest

    Hmmm, the school district gave the coach many options for religious accommodation he has refused them all. He wants to parade before the public in a venue not open to the public, using his position as a government employee to put on a show for the crowd. Jesus chastised the Pharisee for this, He would the coach too.

    • ZyklonSlick

      What were the Accomidations or are you just talking out of your ass like a good little Apostate

      • Guest

        If you had bothered to read the letters the district has sent him you’d know. But a conversation would just tempt your wicked tongue (James 3) and I don’t want to lead you further into sin.

        May God have mercy on your soul for your trespasses.

        • Guest

          You are one of the sickest trolls here. You and your Seattle group harassed Baronnelle Stutzman, the Christian florist, and bragged about it, then you have the gall to pretend you’re a Christian. You’re not very good at it.

          • Guest

            Hmmm, other than there is no record of anyone harassing Ms. Stutzman, not in her interviews, comments, or any trace on line, or in the local papers that publish pretty much everything about her case when something actually does happen. Bye bye

          • Guest

            Actually, the site where you bragged about it was sent to a Charisma moderator and you were banned.

          • Guest

            And now your talking has revealed the truth. That is a common stalker deceit – use the same handle as someone you are setting up on a other site and say outrageous things.

            Thank you for confirming the banning was because someone lied about me. It makes the moderators there seem a bit less arbitrary.

          • Guest

            No one lied about you. The moderators were tracking you themselves. Your public posts are easily traced.

          • Guest

            Hmmm, other than there is no record of anyone harassing Ms. Stutzman, not in her interviews, comments, or any trace on line, or in the local papers that publish pretty much everything about her case when something actually does happen. Bye bye

          • Guest

            You’re lying again. You bragged about you and your gay activist friends targeting her shop and how you were going to request flowers for gay “weddings” so that she’d get fined more.

          • Guest

            Your made up stories are becoming more free form and easily disproven.

            For anyone reading actually interested in the facts, Arlene’s Flowers has not offered wedding floral services for sale at all since this the start of this. Any request for a product the store doesn’t even sell are pointless, the business can’t be ‘fined’ for not selling something they don’t offer to sell to anyone.

            I know that, anyone who follows the case knows that and your status is now known to all.

          • Guest

            No, she hasn’t, because it was publicly posted you guys were going to harass her. The internet’s a wonderful thing!

          • Guest

            Hahahaha! Right, She has’t offered wedding floral services since May 2013. Again, you stand revealed, you can’t even keep your stories believable.

            You’re even more busted.

          • Guest

            That must upset you and your gaystapo friends in Seattle. You had plans to harass her but she outsmarted you all. 🙂

          • Guest

            Yes, and when were your posts made about planning to harass her?

    • Kelly Samuelson

      It says in the post he waited until the game was over and all the players had left the field. Usually most people in the stands are gone by that time too. It’s not like he’s going in the middle of the game and asking everyone to remain seated while he prays.

      • Guest

        It says that’s what he says, though the pictures show him out there with many students in uniform. How badly he is bending the truth I don’t know but the pictures don’t back up his story. And if he has access to that field as part of his job he can’t be leading prayers on it or even give the appearance he is. Again, the school district offered him several places and ways he could pray before, during and after the game – he’s too proud to do that. He wants to be the center of attention at the center of the field that he only has access to because of his government job.

        Again, totally unconstitutional in Washington state. I was always amazed at these stories of public high school football teams having chaplains that crop up from places like Florida and the like – that is very much illegal in the state of Washington and has been since its inception.

        • Joe Blow

          You have to go back to the constitution which the First Amendment says (regarding religion)

          “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;”

          How is praying on the field BY HIMSELF establishing religion by the government. Many folks are so sucked by the media that they are completely clueless about what the constitution really says.

          • Guest

            And you have to go back to understanding that that means. He is completely free to follow his faith, and he is completely free to have another job. The one he decided to have has a government employee has restrictions on what he can do on the job or because of that job regarding giving the appearance of a government endorsement of religion. The federal and even more strictly the state constitutions don’t allow the government to take sides on religion.

            Is he in a place that only his job allows him to be, in front of an audience? Then he is violating the Washington constitution. He is fully free to practice it but not on the job as a government representative in a public forum.

            So many folks seem to think that the first6 amendment is some kind of golden ticket to do anything they want but as a government representative it isn’t, it limits what they can do while performing that task.

          • Joe Blow

            The “establishment” clause was set up so that the government would not implement or favor on religion over another. How is this coach, PRAYING BY HIMSELF, “establishing” religion. Any reasonable person would simply say no. I think you’re confused with the media-speak, or have anti-religion bias.

            And remember that the US Constitution (including First Amendment) is the highest law of the land. It trumps the Washington state constitution.

          • Guest

            Sorry, you are wrong both federally and most certainly according to the constitution of the state of Washington. Again, we had to amend that constitution just so there could be a legislative chaplain, and that is the only person in the entire government authorized to be on the public salary and engage in such activity.

            And the US Constitution says that teachers can not lead a class in prayer, silent or otherwise, or even give the appearance of such. Just as the teachers must do such things in private out of student view so must football coaching teachers. Established precedence, old news, that you don’t know it shows you came pretty much unarmed into this discussion.

          • Joe Blow

            Where is the Constitution does it say “teachers can not lead a class in prayer …” It all goes back to the First Amendment. Again, how is praying on the 50 yard line “establishing” religion by the government. This is not a political speech; its a prayer to God and God alone. You can listen in but you’re not the intended audience — sorry.

          • Guest

            So if you want to change legal precedence go talk to the SCOTUS – until you do this is how it works because all the wiggling and snakiness was tried there too – sorry out loud, silent, pseudo-“private” all are proscribed by government officials in the commission of their duties until you change that.

            Obviously you wish this wasn’t the way it worked but until your wishes come true the coach needs to operate in other than your wishing world.

          • Joe Blow

            Prayer proscribed by the government? Don’t have have a National Day of Prayer? Don’t we have a prayer of invocation at many city council meetings. Don’t we have military chaplains in the army? Don’t we have prayer in our Legislatures? In fact, prayer in the U.S.A. is part of the very fabric of our society.

          • Guest

            And since I know you are bright enough to know the difference between people voluntarily being associated with this people and someone doing it before an audience not there for that purpose I have come to the conclusion you are just trolling me. Washington state doesn’t allow any government official other than the legislative chaplain to do this and that took an amendment of the state constitution for that single exception.

            Again, he will have completely religious freedom in the private sector – I wish him well there.

          • Joe Blow

            Trolling you? As much as you are to me 🙂

            Look I know I not going to change your mind, but I would like people to know that this issue is not cut and dry. The easy path is simply to bow down to the vocal minority, the Satanist, the atheist, etc and simply move on. But where would our country be if Martin Luther King was just a good “boy”, kept his mouth shut, did what he was told. This country is about freedoms, which are guaranteed by our Constitution. If we don’t stand up for these freedoms, we allow the vocal minority to trample on our rights, and ultimately we all lose.

          • Guest

            And if there were only a right to take advantage of a government job to pray center field where others with out that employment privilege can’t be in front of an audience not there for that you’d might have a point. There isn’t though. The coach will do better in a private sector job, I’m sure a private religious school will hire him in a heart beat.

          • Joe Blow

            How will this coach taking advantage of the government? You lost me there. Is he somehow getting more money, benefits? And his “audience” of his prayers … is God. Not you.

          • Guest

            Can someone off the street walk to the center of the field at that time and engage in prayer? If not then the coach is taking advantage of his position for the spotlight. All hubris and pride, not piety.

          • Joe Blow

            The “right” is the free exercise of religion — See First Amendment. It applies to ALL people, including government officials. Certainly the coach could take a job in the private sector ….. or not. You could too.

          • Guest

            ‘Free exercise’ doesn’t mean you can do anything you want when ever you want. The coach was offered accommodation and refused it. All his choice. As Scalia put it “there is a right to religious freedom not a particular job”.

          • Joe Blow

            Free exercise means one can practice their faith within the bounds of the Constitution. It is highly disputable that praying alone, privately, not in a classroom, after the game, is a violation of the “establishment” clause of the First Amendment. The coach is fully within his rights to challenge the prohibition against his prayers which by the way is again part of the First Amendment – ” to petition the Government for a redress of grievances” It’s part of the American way to challenge laws, prohibitions, etc, which are wrong.

          • Guest

            Rather obviously the field is the classroom for a field sports team and is proscribed both nationally and doubly so in Washington state where no government employee like a teacher is allowed to do on the job advocacy of any religious view, period.

            go to the teachers who pray website. They are the ones trying to maximize it in the school environment but even they know that this is not allowed.

          • Joe Blow

            Rather not obvious. What instruction is given AFTER the game is over. No person can reasonably assume that a football field is a “classroom” after the game is over. You have it all wrong about the coach is “advocating” is religious views. This simply is not true. He goes out there BY HIMSELF. He didn’t ask anyone to join him. Again, how does one “establish” his religion going out to the 50 yard line ALONE. This whole notion of the violation of the Establishment Clause simply makes no sense. And the brave folks should rise up and oppose this blatant curtailing of religious liberties.

          • Josey

            They are blind who don’t get it. They need a history lesson too, go back to George Washington and our founding fathers who gathered in New York City when our government was founded, Washington swore on a Bible and made statements regarding having a nation founded under God and there are statements from Benjamin Franklin, james madison, but they probably don’t teach that in schools anymore. Research it you’ll find it to be true.

    • Joe Blow

      There is something called “free exercise of religion”. Check of the First Amendment. And this is exactly what the coach has been doing since 2008 in a public event.

      Jesus chastised the Pharisees for making a public “show” of their prayers to make themselves look holy. Do you actually think the coach is making a public spectacle of himself. He goes out by himself, and not “standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others” (Matt 6:5). I think you’re sadly misguided in your understanding of the bible and of the U.S. Constitution.

      • Guest

        And to paraphrase justice Scalia ‘he has a right to freedom of conscience, he doesn’t have a right to a particular job’.

        Yes, he insists on doing in in a place he only has access to because of his government job and does it obviously and in view of hundreds of people. That is just like the Pharisee.

        I think it is you that doesn’t understand the Bible or the U.S. Constitution.

        • Joe Blow

          The Pharisees prayed in public to make themselves look good. Jesus describes them as this “25 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.” (Matt 23:24-26). Do you think the coach wants to make a name of himself? He’s been quietly do this for 7 years. Somebody with an anti-religion agenda brought this whole mess to the fore front. Really this whole thing been a NON-ISSUE for 7 years!

          • Guest

            And someone so puffed up they have to do it there against the laws of the state is just trying to make himself look good. Hubris and pride is what this coach is exhibiting, not piety.

          • Joe Blow

            You’re losing it. Do you really think this coach puffing himself up to make himself look good? It’s all about Faith, which he has in fact been doing for 7 years

          • Guest

            If it was about faith he would have taken one of the accommodations the district offered. This is about being on the 50 yard line, not about faith – he’s made that very clear.

          • Joe Blow

            His faith is not about the district office nor kissing up to them. Faith is all about a relationship with God. Prayer is a form of that. For someone without faith, this is very hard to understand, unfortunately ….

          • Guest

            Actually for a Christian it is about love, period. That he refused an accommodation that will allow him to practice his faith between him and God because it didn’t involve the 50 yard line with an audience makes it very easy to understand.

          • Joe Blow

            To refuse an “accommodation” is not a refusal to love. Take the apostles John and Peter, they were told by the officials to stop preaching about Jesus. Did they? No! They continued to do so for the remainder of their lives.

          • Josey

            not to mention Daniel, meshach, abednego, and shadrach and many others throughout the Bible. Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever.

          • Guest

            As can this coach – just not as a government representative on the job. Again, as Scalia said about government officials and religion “They have a right to religion freedom, not a right to any particular job.”. He can do the job as required someone else will.

          • Kelly Samuelson

            I love it when non-Christians think they can tell Christians how they are supposed to live as a Christian.

          • Guest

            I love it when people pretending to be Christian support non-Christian acts like this. I’m a practicing Lutheran, shoot my husband is a Lutheran pastor. That this coach could obey the law and still practice his faith is a no-brainer for any Christian to understand, they know it would be his obligation take the win-win situation.

          • Kelly Samuelson

            They are trying to tell him where he is allowed to practice his faith, which is not ok. He could go to his own house and pray, sure. He wants to pray in public and publicly thank God, why is that wrong? He’s not trying to get publicity from it, no one even knew about it until this Satanic cult brought light to it. That fact that you oppose him which would make you in support of the Satanic cult, makes me question your standing with God. But I’m not gonna judge, that’s between you and Him.

          • Guest

            Actually it is ok to tell a government official that, they can’t handle it there are other jobs. And he could pray in public, just not while still acting this capacity.

            Even the local rightwing talk jocks are against him, and say they understand what the Satanists are saying – if he can engage in ‘private prayer’ center field so can everyone else. Which is why Washington state doesn’t allow any government representative to do that. Religious freedom requires hands off by the government, and if you can’t restrain yourself then don’t take a government job.

          • Tom in Raleigh

            The Satanic group (whether you agree with them or not) were simply there to excercise their right to prayer…if Kennedy was praying on the 50 yd line they were going to do the same to represent students and teacher who invited them.

            Kennedy was rightfully suspended so they simply showed up to support their hosts.

          • Kelly Samuelson

            And please, show me in the bible where it says, ‘go hide your faith if it makes other uncomfortable to witness it’. Show me that passage and I’ll apologize and shut up

          • John_33

            Hi Kelly, Guest (aka: @charismaguest02) is a troll who has been banned multiple times on a different Christian website. They are really an LGBT activist and not a Christian.

          • http://biblewordstudy.org Adam in Christ

            I can personally attest to this, as well. On the website John_33 mentioned, ‘Guest’ has been banned multiple times (over 10) due to repeated attempts to bypass his ban, by using some kind of IP address changer.

            He is an activist, and a slick twister of words.

          • Guest

            Oh my dear stalker, my accounts have been banned more times than you have counted, but I refuse to desert you to the false information often posted there. if they want an echo chamber they can switch to a different messaging system, as long as they use an open one I will confront falsehoods when they are presented.

            And yes I am an activist just like the apostles were and I refuse to knock the dust off my shoes and desert the people there to the mercy of those that would deceive them.

            If they would just state the truth, I’d have nothing to correct – maybe someday they will learn their lesson God willing.

          • Guest

            yes, isn’t this how it goes – every thing I say is factual. And your questioning my faith is both against this boards policies but against God’s. I am a Lutheran, my husband is a Lutheran pastor. I do correct inaccuracies when they are presented and if you have read that other web site one of the founders is obsessed with gays and tells many many false things about them which I do correct and will continue to correct.

          • Joe Blow

            Ah the truth comes out. Why are you banned in so many forurms. Hostile, insulting intent? If you’re a Christian, why are you so dead set against the coach’s free exercise of religion on the 50 yard line? Purity of the Constitution? Hogwash. A Christian would support his/her fellow believers when they are unduly persecuted by the State. Let’s face it, the “establishment” clause violation is weak in the case. Opposing it is for the benefit for all believers.

          • Guest

            So many? One? I’m banned because they want their forum to be an echo chamber where they can say whatever they want no matter what they say.

            It’s an odd place where SAD is considered witchcraft and So I only reply when untruths of a factual nature are said, not arguing their particular doctrines and only honestly reply when asked about mine.

            Why am I against the coach breaking the law is what I’m hearing you say and the reply is I was born and raised in Washington state and such public displays at schools have been forbidden my entire life. The government should be ‘hands off’ and public school is a government institution.

            I strongly advise this man to take the accommodation offered by the district, even in less restrictive states this is a one way ticket to unemployment. Insisting to pray in a particular place like the front of the classroom or the 50 yard line isn’t piety, its pride. Renounce it and teach the children by example not showy displays.

          • Guest

            Banned in what forums, one? I’m a Christian that thinks obey the law is a good thing. If he can’t do his job as the law requires he can quit just as Matthew quit being a tax collector.

            Like it or not he has no right to do what he is doing by decades of rulings and the Washington state constitution since 1889.

          • John_33

            You are on ChristianNewsNetwork, not on Charisma. I have every right to warn others when a wolf in sheep’s clothing comes on the board to go after the flock. Consider yourself outed.

          • http://biblewordstudy.org Adam in Christ

            Amen.

            And ‘Guest’ is, most certainly, a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

          • Guest

            Yes the stalker is throwing stones. Typical.

          • Guest

            outed about what? telling the truth? providing facts rather than opinion and emotion?

            I am proudly outed, consider you the are outed to as one who likes to attack the person rather than what they say.

          • John_33

            You are outed in that you are pretending to be a ‘devout’ Christian when you are really an LGBT activist who trolls Christian boards. You can’t get away from this one. 🙂

          • Guest

            So you are accusing me of not being a Christian? And here in a thread that has nothing to do with gay issues and I have never brought up? The moderators will see this for what it is – bye bye.

          • http://biblewordstudy.org Adam in Christ

            Homosexuality is condemned in the Bible (along with adultery, fornication, incest, etc.), and the only form of marriage that God ordained is that between one man and one woman.

            Marriage Covenant with Scriptural Affirmations

            [Closely observe how all mentions of marriage are between one man and one woman, only]

            (verses highlighted in bold)

            Genesis 2:23-25
            …(23)And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. (24)Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

            (25)And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed….

            ***

            Matthew 19:4-6
            …(4)And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, (5)And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

            (6)Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder…

            ***

            Mark 10:6-9
            …(6)But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. (7)For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; (8)And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.

            (9)What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder…

            ***

            1 Corinthians 6:15-17
            …(15)Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. (16)What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

            (17)But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit…

            ***

            I Corinthians 7:1-4
            …(1)Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. (2)Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

            (3)Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. (4)The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife…

            ***

            Ephesians 5:30-33
            …(30)For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. (31)For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. (32)This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

            (33)Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband

            ***

          • Guest

            Talk about off topic – this thread has nothing to do with your favorite obsession. Is that really all you think about Adam?

          • Guest

            ah, so you have to resort to straw man arguments now. That’s not the issue. These are the rules, he has been given lawful and constitutional instruction by his government superiors with offers of accommodation and he has refused to comply and accommodation.

            Again, there is no way he is going to be able to do this and keep his job with a complete reversal of several SCOTUS rulings about such classroom activities. Its his choice whether he wants to keep his job or not, he gets to keep his faith regardless.

          • Mark Barker

            OK, everyone, she said she is a Lutheran. I think that should suffice to explain how off track her view is. Or was that Episcopalian? Hmm…..Whatever. Both fairly liberal.

          • Guest

            Since Jesus was a liberal I take your unintended compliment as such.

          • freedomringsforall

            Your statement:
            “Jesus was a liberal”
            Exactly what statement from Jesus do you get that from?
            Praise God!
            Long Live The Republic!

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            I think “Purple” Guest is a little strange to think Jesus is a Liberal.

          • freedomringsforall

            Amen
            and when asked a direct question about what law was violated or what text in the Bible supports Jesus being a liberal she has no clue.
            She is very long on baloney and very short on any sense of reality.
            Praise God!
            Long Live the Republic!

          • Guest

            He’s a gay activist atheist who trolls Christian boards. He’s been banned from most of them, including Charisma recently.

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            I Pray he gets banned here too. Him and the other one that I think has something to do with Him/Her.

          • Joe Blow

            What’s a practicing Lutheran? I don’t recall Lutheran being the Bible. You would have more weight to your voice if you said you are practicing “Christian”. Trump says he’s a Presbyterian — means nothing.

          • Guest

            And nitpicking because I said what sect I belong to just feels like yore being contrary for the sake of being contrary. Lots of non-practicing Lutherans by upbringing but not current church goers here in the Pacific Northwest, differentiating me from them, nothing more.

          • Guest

            You’re not a Christian. In fact, you’ve called yourself a witch on some of your previous posts under the name “Oshtur”.

          • Guest

            Actually I have never done that but then you have already been caught in your own lies here.

          • Guest

            Yes you did, and the links were posted on Charisma, which is why you got banned the first time.

          • Guest

            You’re not a Christian and you don’t have a husband. Nice try though, Purple Drank.

          • Guest

            You do realize that ad hominem was one you used under a different trolling identity, the one playing the role of a concern troll.

            Busted.

          • Guest

            I only have one account, Purple Drank, but nice try. 🙂

          • Guest

            And the terminal smiley face that other identity used. Again, busted.

          • Guest

            You have serious issues. But just for you – :):):)

          • Kelly Samuelson

            He made it clear that he’s not going to hide his faith. I don’t think he should have to, either. Why should he have to go hide in the corner of a locker room to pray? For seven years no one brought it up as issue and now all of a sudden it is? Why?

          • Guest

            That he was doing something illegal doesn’t excuse it, the error is thinking he had a right to do it on the 50 yard line in the first place. And since when is praying in private hiding someone’s faith? These ridiculous hyperboles is what leads to the losses in these cases before the courts – they make the judge’s eyes roll.

          • Kelly Samuelson

            You know, out of all the comments on here, you seem to be the only one with an issue about this. Why is that? This seems like a non-issue at this point and you just don’t want to admit that maybe it shouldn’t be the issue it’s turned into.

          • Guest

            If its a non-issue then the coach will obey the law, right? It shouldn’t be an issue – the district offered accommodation – the coach refused it. The issue is now his and his alone.

          • Kelly Samuelson

            For it being his issue alone, you’re certainly putting your two cents in

          • Guest

            And you too. Maybe you should deal with that log before you concern yourself about my speck?

          • Joe Blow

            This was a non-issue for 7 years. And the issue is not his alone. He standing up for many in this country who are in similar situations. This “non-issue” will not go away anytime soon.

          • Guest

            Oh so it isn’t a non-issue after all? Corrrect the other comments then, that was their assertion.

          • Joe Blow

            This is issue now because someone in vocal minority wants to make this an issue. Prior to the game, you, I and just about anyone else really didn’t know or care. Now, someone prays in the name of Jesus and all of sudden, the whole is going to collapse – the very foundations of country will shaken off its foundations. This coach has been praying out in the open for 7 years! No one spoke up till now. Are there some activist Satanist, atheist out there make a huge stink out of the issue. It’s really appalling that these folks can hijack to very things we cherish – freedom of religion, in the name the Constitution.

          • Guest

            Purple Guest is a gay activist extremist from Seattle who trolls Christian boards. He’s been banned repeatedly from Charisma.

          • Kandy

            I believe what you have said about Purple Guest is true. There is someone else he has taken a liken too. The strange thing is this other person claims to be Christian although he likes to abuse other Christian through Bible Scriptures.Now I they may be the same person.They both seem to be causing trouble on a Christian site.

          • freedomringsforall

            What law is it “against”?
            Please state the exact law.
            Praise God!
            Long Live the Republic

          • Guest

            Read the thread, the SCOTUS rulings and the quotes from the Washington state constitution are there.

          • freedomringsforall

            I do not see the exact laws that you say were broken posted here.
            Please guide me to exactly where they are posted (like under what id or something) if they are.
            You could just copy and paste them for me that takes no effort because although you claim they are posted here I do not see them.
            Otherwise please state exactly what laws you claim were broken.
            Praise God!
            Long Live the Republic!

          • Guest

            No posting them again would be spamming, there is a nice lists of SCOTUS rulings and the Washington state constitution in the discussion with John_33 and if you look you will find them. This is about sharing information and discussing the situation rationally. No need to convince you, the facts speak for themselves.

            Do your research maybe even go to teacherswhopray dot org and see what these prayer advocates have to say on the issue and come back with any questions you might have.

          • freedomringsforall

            Thank you for finally admitting that you have no clue what the exact law is that the coach broke.
            Praise God!
            Long Live The Republic!

        • freedomringsforall

          You are essentially lying and misquoting justice Scalia by taking, totally out of context, a generalized comment by Scalia in the Obergefell v. Hodges case regarding gay marriage and inferring that he had said it regarding this situation.
          Scalia was referring to the constitutional fact that their is no provision in the Constitution for a “right” to a job.
          And he also said that there wasn’t even a thin veneer of law backing up the majority decision in that case.
          He was not referring to this situation in any way shape or form nor any of the principle arguments involved in this situation.
          And Justice Scalia’s comment certainly has nothing to do with your inaccurate thoughts about Jesus’ chastising the Pharisees.
          Again Jesus did that for their 2 faced showing outwardly of pious behavior to the public while actually being a den of thieves and murderers and defiling his fathers temple.
          Not for public evangelism which Jesus did for the 3 years of his ministry and “commissioned” he disciples and followers to do.
          I hope this is helpful.
          Praise God!
          Long Live the Republic!

          • Guest

            And since Scalia said this in regards to government employees who felt they couldn’t comply with the legal requirements of their job long before Obergefell it just shows you don’t know what you are talking about but have no compunction about talking about what you don’t know anyway.

            Say “Lord! Lord!” all you want, we know that doesn’t get anyone anywhere.

          • freedomringsforall

            Thank you for your admission that you took his statement out of context and that it was not in reference what so ever to this situation.
            Praise God!
            Long Live the Republic!

          • Guest

            Actually since this man is a government employee who doesn’t think the rules apply to him it is 100% Applicable to this situation. Either he does his job as required by law or he should resign though in this case he’ll probably just be fired.

          • freedomringsforall

            As I previously stated:

            Thank you for your admission that you took Scalia’s statement out of context and that it was not in reference what so ever to this situation.

            Praise God!
            Long Live the Republic!

          • Guest

            Ha! When did I say it was in reference to this specific situation? Most statements of moral and legal obligations aren’t. Or are you saying that the justice would have a different opinion about this same kind of situation as he was commenting on – a government official who, due to conscience, could not perform their job the way the law requires.

            Thank you for admitting that talking with you is a waste of time.

          • freedomringsforall

            As I stated:

            Thank you for your admission that you took his statement out of context and that it was not in reference what so ever to this situation.

            Praise God!
            Long Live the Republic!

          • Guest

            Haha!

    • freedomringsforall

      With this statement I am not agreeing with or disagreeing with the coach because I do not feel I know enough about the situation to do either.

      With this statement I am though doing something I basically never do and that is to correct an inferred Biblical reference per your statement.

      Jesus enthusiastically encouraged public evangelism.

      That is basically what his “story” is all about and the 3 years of his ministry.

      That is basically all he did in those 3 years.

      He encouraged his disciples to do that unto the world upon his death.

      He admonished or chastised the Pharisees basically for being 2 faced and not really of the commitment that they publically displayed.
      That they acted all pious and holier than though to the public while being inwardly filthy and a den of thieves.
      Putting on holy and pious charades to the public while actually being thieves and murderers and defiling his fathers temple.
      So, your comparison is not very good.
      At least I can say this much that I haven’t seen any indication that the coach is a thief, or a murderer for a defiler of Jesus’ fathers temple.
      Any you are 180 degrees wrong inferring that somehow Jesus wasn’t down with public evangelism.
      I can’t ever perceive doing public evangelism it certainly isn’t for me but I do know that that is almost all Jesus did in his 3 years ministry and that is what he told others to do and that is what he “commissioned” his disciples to do.
      That was exactly what the “commission” of the disciples was; is to go unto the world and publically evangelize Christ’s father’s word.
      I hope that this was helpful.
      Praise God!
      Long Live the Republic!

      • Guest

        Public evangelism that gets you fired isn’t from your job isn’t very foresightful.

        After findinthe the teacherswhopray dot org web site I am quite sure what this coach is doing is counter productive from even an evangelical stand point.

        He will lose his job and access to the very kids he’d like to reach.

        • freedomringsforall

          Your reply:

          “Public evangelism that gets you fired from your job isn’t very foresightful.”

          Has nothing to do with what you said in your previous post and what I replied to.

          This is what you said:

          “Hmmm, the school district gave the coach many options for religious accommodation he has refused them all. He wants to parade before the public in a venue not open to the public, using his position as a government employee to put on a show for the crowd. Jesus chastised the Pharisee for this, He would the coach too.”

          and this is what I said in reply:

          “With this statement I am not agreeing with or disagreeing with the coach because I do not feel I know enough about the situation to do either.

          With this statement I am though doing something I basically never do and that is to correct an inferred Biblical reference per your statement.

          Jesus enthusiastically encouraged public evangelism.

          That is basically what his “story” is all about and the 3 years of his ministry.

          That is basically all he did in those 3 years.

          He encouraged his disciples to do that unto the world upon his death.

          He admonished or chastised the Pharisees basically for being 2 faced and not really of the commitment that they publically displayed.

          That they acted all pious and holier than thou to the public while being inwardly filthy and a den of thieves.

          Putting on holy and pious charades to the public while actually being thieves and murderers and defiling his fathers temple.
          So, your comparison is not very good.

          At least I can say this much that I haven’t seen any indication that the coach is a thief, or a murderer for a defiler of Jesus’ fathers temple.

          And you are 180 degrees wrong inferring that somehow Jesus wasn’t down with public evangelism.

          I can’t ever perceive doing public evangelism it certainly isn’t for me but I do know that that is almost all Jesus did in his 3 years ministry and that is what he told others to do and that is what he “commissioned” his disciples to do.

          That was exactly what the “commission” of the disciples was; is to go unto the world and publically evangelize Christ’s father’s word.

          I hope that this was helpful.

          Praise God!
          Long Live the Republic!”

  • FoJC_Forever

    This reminds me of what people will do to keep others from communicating Truth to a world which is quickly plummeting into Darkness. This anti-religious group wants to make a big deal out of one man “praying” at a football game. Others will hack computers and record people in private to use it to harass and mock those with whom they disagree. Religious people claiming to be Christians are often just as guilty of personal infringement of religious liberty they so quickly complain about when done to them. This double standard is what opens the door for the Devil to work his will in a community and society.

    Follow Jesus, find Truth.

    • Guest

      No its about a government official leading a prayer while on duty. The only government employee in the state allowed to do that is the legislative chaplain and the state constitution had to be amended to allow even that.

      If the students prayed and he joined in it wouldn’t have been an issue but his ego is too puffed up for that.

      • Kelly Samuelson

        Read the post!!! He wasn’t asking anyone to join in! It was a personal prayer between he and God. If any students chose to join him, it was just that, their choice.

        • Guest

          Read something other than the propaganda his lawyers and advocates put out – lies are their bread and butter, and maybe learn a bit about the laws in the state of Washington. He, while he is doing is job, can’t do that as a public display. Again, if he joined the students he might have had a leg to stand on, but again, he doesn’t take that route because he wants to be the center of attention.

          I mean according to the lies of his lawyers, the players are already in the locker room – which is it?

          • Yvonne Celeste Lee

            You assume he was lying? Anti-God agenda much?

          • Guest

            Reading comprehension would be a good skill to practice – I didn’t say he said it at all. And what does what humans say have to do with God or being against Him? I’m always against liars, aren’t you?

          • Guest

            No, I but I know that he is on the field with the students, not when they are off the field so someone is saying things that aren’t true.

            And God is very much against false witness like that.

          • Joe Blow

            This coach has been doing since 2008! Propaganda? Get real! He’s been open and honest about praying on the field for years. It’s the Satanist that have a real agenda and were out there this past Thurs.

          • Guest

            And he has been told to stop while representing the government, refused, and was put on administrative leave as a result. His choice. Maybe a job in the private sector will be more to his liking.

          • Joe Blow

            He’s not represent the government, nor anyone else. He’s not a public official. ….. He’s a football coach.

          • Guest

            You can say that as many times as you want – its just as untrue the last as it was the first. Primary school Football coaches are state government representatives as per state law and precedence, and restricted in the place of their religious expression as per the federal SCOTUS rulings decades old.

            He doesn’t want those restrictions he can give up his government job.

          • Joe Blow

            And even a government official doesn’t give up their right to free exercise of their faith which in fact he was doing privately on the field. He didn’t coerce his team (nor the opposing team) to pray. They simply joined in. And they did again while he was in the stands.

            And you have failed to argue how he violated the “establishment clause”.

          • Guest

            Ha! Doing it on the 50 yard like with students and crowd still present is no more ‘private’ than a teacher doing it at the front of a class room.

            And no one has to show coercion or how it violates the ‘establishment clause’, the SCOTUS has already done long ago. Again, he can’t pray without making an illegal show of it, best he move on to a private sector job.

          • Joe Blow

            You don’t get it. The football field, after the game, is not a classroom. He didn’t call his players to join him, not anyone … just a private prayer which by the way is PROTECTED under the Constitution.

          • Guest

            The football field, while students and observers are still present, is still a classroom just as one is even after the class bell has rung. You are the one that doesn’t get it.

          • Joe Blow

            Is your definition of a “classroom” a place where students are present? Then how about a bus with school kids, in the stands, the school lunch room? Really, the main point is how does praying on the 50 yard line, “establish” religion by the government?

      • Joe Blow

        Since when is a football coach a government official? And did he is actually “lead” prayer or was this just on his own volition?

        • Guest

          Since he gets a pay check from a government entity, the public school system.

          Leading a prayer in front of a classroom, even if silent, is proscribed for a government employee like a teacher, ditto a football coach.

          Again, you don’t seem to understand the constitutions, federal or state, or the legal precedence that motivates the school district to curtail this activity.

          They have offered him religious accommodation and he has refused it. The next step will be termination by his own choices.

          • Kelly Samuelson

            I guarantee that if it was any other religion we would not be seeing this kind of publicity or pushback. God is being so removed from society and we are being more and more restricted on public displays of our faith. It really is sad. People wonder why this country is turning so awful? We’ve turned our back on God as a nation, and he is removing his hand of protection from us.

          • Guest

            I guarantee you you are gossiping, would be the same if the coach was a wiccan, a druid or a buddhist.

            And there is no restriction on public displays of faith by someone who isn’t a government representative like this. If that field was open to the public private citizen; students, audience, or even passerbys could go do as they wanted as long as all were able to. But as long as its on a restricted government area the government representatives can’t take undue advantage of that for their own agendas.

          • Joe Blow

            You under the assumption that the district is within it’s constitution duty to put prohibit his private prayers on the football field. This is not a class room. I doubt anyone can even hear what he’s saying in the stands He questions this prohibitions. I would too, To say praying out on the football field out of earshot of everyone is equivalent to a classroom is .. ludicrous.

          • Guest

            No, only to someone trying to ignore the legal precedence governing this. A teacher praying silently at the front of the room or a moment of silence can’t be heard too – its still against constitution and law.

            You can wiggle all you want, this case is a done deal. The sealer of course is the people representing him – have they ever actually prevailed in any of these lawsuits?

          • Joe Blow

            The late Yogi Berra once said – “it ain’t over till it over”. Just because you say it over … means nothing.

      • Josey

        aha, that is funny, government official, he’s a football coach.

        • Guest

          And a government employee as all teachers are. Sorry that you can’t understand that but that is especially the way it works in Washington state.

      • John_33

        Last time I checked, the president can pray on duty and he or she is a government official. Nowhere does the Constitution say that the religious get stripped of their religious rights once they are officials. In fact, the founding fathers included a protection in the Constitution so a religious sect could partake in the government without shedding their religious beliefs. To be blunt, you have no clue what you are talking about.

        • Guest

          And of course this isn’t about ‘stripping’ the coach of his religious rights – he was offered accommodation and he refused it. He doesn’t want just religious rights, he wants to engage in prayer at the middle of his ‘classroom’ while class is present in front of an audience not there to join in a religious observance.

          He is the one with all the conditions that shouldn’t be required by a Christian in any church I know. What church is that where they are mandated to make a public spectacle of their prayers?

          • John_33

            If he wants to pray, then he should be allowed to do so. As simple as that.

          • Guest

            And he can, out of view of the students or an audience observing him in his role of a government employee. Or get another job. Simple as that.

          • John_33

            Or he can pray just like the president can in front of millions.

          • Guest

            No he can’t. There is a website for teachers who pray. org and they spell out the requirements and reasons for them. In big letters at the from they start out with the basics:

            Teachers who wish to pray or engage in other group religious activities must do so outside of the presence of students.

            Not the front of their classroom or the 50 yard line.

          • John_33

            He has just as much right to pray as the president does. The courts have been deeply mistaken on this one.

          • Guest

            Yes yes in the alternate reality inside your head it would be different but here in this one the rulings stand with no indication they are going to change any time soon.

          • John_33

            Or in other words, you admit there’s a blatant contradiction. 🙂

          • Guest

            between what you wish the world was like and the way it really is, yeah – there is absolutely no correlation. 😇

          • John_33

            Now you’re just going off on a tangent, which I can’t say I’m surprised.

          • Guest

            Ha! I reply to your admitting there is a cintradictikn between your wish world and the real one isn’t a tangent, it’s just realizing your talking about how you wish things were and not discussing the one that’s real.

            Again, I hope the coach gets a job in the private sector he likes.

          • John_33

            I have no clue what you are talking about. The question here is whether a coach can pray at all. I already noted how the president is a government official and he can do so in front of millions. You then decided to go off on some tangent…

          • Guest

            The president and a school teacher are in very different jobs, I didn’t think you were seriously bringing it up. What has been before the SCOTUS is teachers and schools which I assumed you were familiar with.

            You aren’t?

            Here are a few SCOTUS rulings:

            McCollum v. Board of Education Dist. 71, 333 U.S. 203 (1948)
            Court finds religious instruction in public schools a violation of the establishment clause and therefore unconstitutional.
            Engel v. Vitale, 82 S. Ct. 1261 (1962)
            Any kind of prayer, composed by public school districts, even nondenominational prayer, is unconstitutional government sponsorship of religion.
            Abington School District v. Schempp, 374 U.S. 203 (1963)
            Court finds Bible reading over school intercom unconstitutional and Murray v. Curlett, 374 U.S. 203 (1963) – Court finds forcing a child to participate in Bible reading and prayer unconstitutional.
            Epperson v. Arkansas, 89 S. Ct. 266 (1968)
            State statue banning teaching of evolution is unconstitutional. A state cannot alter any element in a course of study in order to promote a religious point of view. A state’s attempt to hide behind a nonreligious motivation will not be given credence unless that state can show a secular reason as the foundation for its actions.
            Stone v. Graham, 449 U.S. 39 (1980)
            Court finds posting of the Ten Commandments in schools unconstitutional.
            Wallace v. Jaffree, 105 S. Ct. 2479 (1985)
            State’s moment of silence at public school statute is unconstitutional where legislative record reveals that motivation for statute was the encouragement of prayer. Court majority silent on whether “pure” moment of silence scheme, with no bias in favor of prayer or any other mental process, would be constitutional.
            Allegheny County v. ACLU, 492 U.S. 573 (1989)
            Court finds that a nativity scene displayed inside a government building violates the Establishment Clause.
            Lee v. Weisman, 112 S. Ct. 2649 (1992)
            Unconstitutional for a school district to provide any clergy to perform nondenominational prayer at elementary or secondary school graduation. It involves government sponsorship of worship. Court majority was particularly concerned about psychological coercion to which children, as opposed to adults, would be subjected, by having prayers that may violate their beliefs recited at their graduation ceremonies.

            Any way the Washington state constitution makes it even clearer:

            No public money (i.e. the coach’s salary) or property shall be appropriated for or applied to any religious worship, (i.e. religious prayer in a school setting shared with students) exercise or instruction, or the support of any religious establishment…:

            All schools maintained or supported wholly or in part by the public funds shall be forever free from sectarian control or influence.

            Again, this is a forgone conclusion. The teacher can pray but not with or before the students will working, and any time they are with students on school property they are considered working.

            again, read the prayer advocacy site teachers who pray dot org and they will make it clear that what this teacher is doing is not allowed even if they wish it were.

          • John_33

            Which is more influential? A president or a coach? I think I’ll go with president, and he can pray in front of millions of students and influence them. Fascinating. The only forgone conclusion here is that the courts are deeply mistaken. The founding fathers specifically made a provision for a religious sect to run and obtain public positions without giving up their religious beliefs. This is no different as the coach – who is not asking for anyone to pray with him – is simply praying alone in public. It’s his right to pray in public. Being a government official does not take that away.

          • Guest

            Same excuses used in various court cases about classroom prayer by teachers, moments of silence, etc. Sorry, to allowed by the federal constitution and most certainly not allowed under the Washington constitution.

            That you think this isn’t the way it should be is obvious but even more obvious is that is the way it is.

          • John_33

            Then explain why a president can do so. 🙂

          • Guest

            They aren’t a teacher.

            from the teachers who pray dot org website:

            Just as in other government workplaces, the school may control a teacher’s speech in front of students (who are the “customers” or “clients” of the government’s education business). Courts have determined that Establishment Clause considerations generally trump a teacher’s free speech and free exercise rights when the two conflict. Since the teacher is an agent of the government while on school property, anything the teacher says concerning religion can be attributed to the government and can become an unconstitutional establishment of religion.

          • John_33

            So? What makes a president different than a coach when it comes to religion?

          • Guest

            We aren’t ‘customers’ or ‘clients’ of the government’s education business. If the President was before a class of students he would be held to the same standard theoretically.

            Do you have an example of him engaging in a prayer in the role of a teacher?

          • John_33

            That’s absolutely untrue. We have presidents praying publicly while on duty reaching millions through radio and television in exactly the same fashion that you claim this coach cannot do. Again, why can a president do so? You have never answered this yet.

          • Guest

            We know the teachers can’t because of cases before the Supreme Court. File one against the president so the issue can be evaluated.

            The president ‘can’ do so because no one has yet told them they can’t, not true of educator or school settings and doesn’t matter in Washington state, the constitution underlines the SCOTUS rulings.

          • John_33

            Nice try, but the truth is that presidents can because there’s nothing illegal about government officials praying in public (as you claimed earlier). People know that if the courts ever tried to limit the powers of the executive branch that it would be overt religious persecution and a constitutional crisis. Now apply it to the coach who is also a government official. There’s nothing wrong with him praying by himself in public. The real reason why the courts don’t want teachers leading prayer in front of students is because they don’t want teachers trying to force students to convert when they should be learning. That’s not what’s happening here. The coach simply wishes to pray by himself. As such, he should be allowed to just as the president has full rights to do so.

          • Guest

            There is in a school setting as is the topic of discussion and the point of many court rulings.

            Interesting argument but considering the proscription on him praying before students on school property he probably needs to find another ‘public’ venue, as the teachers who pray dot org site advises. They make it clear that a teacher can be fired for praying at school with students present and advises that they will have no legal recourse.

            Again, I hope the coach likes his new private sector job.

          • John_33

            Except we already established that a president has not crossed any lines if he prays in front of students. Presidents hold a lot more influence and can sway students far more easily than coaches, so your point is moot, which is not surprising since you are here just to troll. 🙂

          • Guest

            No we haven’t, we have established the line for the president hasn’t been tested, nothing more.

            Again, file a suit, take it to the Supreme Court, let me know how it goes. Since all you have are red herrings about the president and ignore the court rulings I understand why you put the smiley after the word troll, its self referential.

          • John_33

            Presidents have already prayed publicly and undoubtedly in front of students with the advent of television, social media, and radio. To argue that the president is not reaching students when he prays in public is honestly laughable. Can coaches pray on television while on duty? 🙂

            Why don’t you file against the president? I’d love to see that one.

          • Guest

            I don’t care, I can’t even recall seeing a president pray while in school, or seen a president while in school for that matter. I have nothing to file a suit about. You are the one obsessed with the president, have at it.

          • Guest

            Hey, it’s Oshtur who was accused of being a witch (and who denied it) on Charisma magazine. How many times have you been banned there now? Eleven?

          • Guest

            Oh, my account has been banned dozens of times, many more than my stalker documents. That Charisma is an apostate site with no fruits of the Spirit is a given, I’m there because light has to be shined on their corruption of Christ’s messages and when they outright lie about the facts.

            As long as I state the truth, and all that their only way to deal with it is ad hominems, lies and pointless acts of account deletion (I can create a new one in less that 2 minutes) its all badges of honor and faith from my point of view.

            And since you hang out there you are probably part of that mindset too which allows me to understand your use of term ‘witch’. I mean the editor there pushing her book about the witches among us gave all the symptoms of Seasonal Affective Disorder as ‘sure signs of witchcraft’. With a superstitious crowd like laps up stuff like that, their opinions about me are total reinforcement – if they think I’m wrong that just means I’m on God’s path.

          • Guest

            You don’t state the truth. You were exposed as one of the gay activist guys from Seattle who harassed Baronnelle Stutzman, the Christian florist. You were also exposed as bringing other posters to bolster your atheist claims, all the while pretending to be a Christian. In fact, I’ll bet you were those same posters under an alt and perhaps even a proxy since you boast about using those on Charisma. Hope they wise up to you here and ban you, too.

          • Guest

            So all you have are baseless accusations that I know you know are untrue?

            You stand revealed. Point of facts:

            I have never met or directly communicated with Baronnelle Stutzman nor do I know of a single instance of her being harrassed by any gay activists and I know much about the case since it is here in Washington.

            I have never brought any posters in to bolster ‘atheist’ claims, I don’t even know what that means.

            And I actually go out of my way to make sure that my accounts on Charisma make it very clear I am the same person. Yes, I did use different names because the blocking of an account blocks the name too but then I found out the name ‘Guest’ can’t be blocked. So now all my sequentially used accounts have the same name and I upload the identical icon. No one other than a stalker would even know I’m using a different account.

            And yes, I know from how you always try to make the discussion about me rather than what I say that you would really would like to ban me from everywhere because you can’t deal with the issues, you have to attack the person talking.

            I’m the one on the high road here, and I’m sure the moderators here will see that too.

          • Guest

            You’re lying again. The moderators have banned you on Charisma at least a dozen times, and you keep coming back under proxies and new names because the mods realize you are a gay activist troll. You have been caught lying repeatedly, and falsely accusing Christian posters. I hope you find something better to do with your time, not-a-witch Oshtur.

          • Guest

            And calling me a liar will get you banned from here. From the moment I figured out how to present a consistent handle in spite of their prejudice I have.

          • Guest

            You are called a liar because Charisma caught you lying. That’s why you were banned at least – what? a dozen times? Yet you come back with your gaystapo extremism. That’s called trolling.

          • Guest

            Hmmm all you have is baseless accusations and ad hominems, just like at Charisma. That is an example of the environment there – I talk on subject, about the entry in question, dealing in facts and open to honest discussion and they make accusations, spread baseless gossip and toss out useless derogatory terms that mean nothing other than you can’t discuss other than emotionally. Being unable to discuss the issues, talk on subject, or engage in ad hominems, that’s what’s called trolling.

          • Guest

            Oshtur, if the mod asks, he/she can just contact Charisma mods who banned you for YOUR actions, not because of what anyone said about you.

          • Guest

            The mods that post falsehoods every day about someone? Particularly amusing is the one that thinks Seasonal Affective Disorder symptoms are signs of Witchcraft. Yeah, great references.

            The actions they don’t like is someone speaking the Truth and defending it. As I said they want their comment section to be a den they can spread all their gossip and falsehoods without contradiction.

            Just not going to happen.

          • Guest

            Wow – just another one of your lies and false accusations. You have yet to speak the truth on any of your posts. You’re just here to troll.

          • Guest

            Please – they can go look it up themselves. And since the moderators know I have posted extensive references to actual legal cases and the Washington state constitution your usual routine will have no power here.

            And point of fact you have yet to post an on topic comment yet – again you don’t know what a troll is.

          • Guest

            Of course they can look it up. They can also contact Charisma mods to see how you trolled the boards, constantly reporting Christian posts, and posting all sorts of extremist homosexual propaganda. I hope you find peace in life. Living this way has to be rough,

          • Guest

            Again, you don’t know what the term means obviously since that is what you are doing at this board. And what difference is it if I report abusive posts when they don’t do anything about them anyway? And ‘Extremist homosexual propaganda’ What does that even mean? The majority of extremist propaganda about homosexuals posted is by Mike one of the main reasons I post.

            I have plenty of peace, spreading the Truth is restful. Look at this thread, the more you talk the more you prove I’m right and you aren’t. Keep talking, the Truth will win out in the end.

          • Guest

            Michael C is not an extremist. He’s a reasonable, respectable man who makes intelligent posts. His opinion is not the norm on Charisma, but he’s polite and articulate, which is why he’s never been banned, and you have been banned over a dozen times.

          • Guest

            I don’t think Michael C is an extremist either, never mentioned him.

          • Guest

            Yes you did. Edit as much as you want. You said it.

          • Guest

            odd you can call me a troll and your note isn’t deleted but when I point out you are the one trolling with the red herring of the president, mine is.

            I wonder why that is?

          • Guest

            No we haven’t, we have established the line for the president hasn’t been tested, nothing more.

            Again, file a suit, take it to the Supreme Court, let me know how it goes.

          • Cosmic Mastermind

            The President can pray as an individual, but he cannot represent the Government or the American People when he does so. And neither can any other public servant or official- schoolteachers and football coaches included.

          • John_33

            Then why have so many prayed in their State of the Union address or swearing in ceremony? Hmm, that’s about as presidential as one can get when they pray.

          • Tom in Raleigh

            Out of curiosity, can you provide some recent examples of the POTUS leading prayers?

          • John_33

            Sure. The first one with George Washington is disputed, so I jumped to page 5 where there are verified prayers:

            www (dot) beliefnet (dot) com/Faiths/Faith-Tools/Meditation/2005/01/Prayers-Of-The-Presidents.aspx?p=5

          • Tom in Raleigh

            Thanks. Interesting.

          • Cosmic Mastermind

            Which he should not do. In fact, that’s something I might bring up as a topic with atheist YouTubers. He can pray as an individual, but he should not be using the word “we” in the context of speaking for the nation.

            And you might want to consider that Barrack Obama was born Muslim, and for a man who is known to have preferences rather than policies, I don’t find it so far fetched that he might still be a non-practicing Muslim. So when Obama prays in the name of the American People, and you join in, you may be inadvertently praying to Allah, not Jehovah.

          • John_33

            Wrong. He can most certainly use “we” as much as he wants and is fully in his right to do so. What are you going to do if he prays? Advocate for fines and jail sentences? 🙂

            And considering I’m not even an American, I don’t have to worry about prayers with President Obama. 🙂

        • Cosmic Mastermind

          POTUS is always on duty, so there is no reasonable way he can refrain from being a Christian (or possibly Muslim.. still not 100% sure about Obama) 24 hours a day. But legally, he cannot introduce his religious beliefs into his public duties, which most Presidents do, and most President break the law by doing so.

          • Josey

            If you think the president isn’t introducing his beliefs into politics you are foolish, he has his belief system and is following it, he is good at being deceptive about it but a lot of ppl are finally waking up to his agenda.

          • John_33

            Sorry but you have no clue what you are talking about. What “law” did the president break by introducing religious beliefs? They broke no such laws since they don’t exist.

          • Cosmic Mastermind

            The 1st Amendment – Separation of Church and State.

          • John_33

            Yeah, and founding fathers who wrote Constitution made a provision for Quakers to run for President without violating their religious beliefs. If you really knew what the 1st Amendment was about, then you wouldn’t try to use it in this context.

      • Tom in Raleigh

        Actually, if the students prayed, he couldn’t legally join in, or even stand with them and now his head.

        The students, however, could pray as loudly as they might want

        • Guest

          Yes I stand corrected. the site teachers who pray dot org covered that and they are an advocacy group for having as much legal prayer related to schools as possible.

          This coach is in the wrong no matter how long he got away with it. As with the photography studio in New Mexico I fear the Liberty group is going to convince him they can win when all they are really setting him up for is to be a martyr for their cause and fundraising.

          • Tom in Raleigh

            It’s pretty simple. Teachers can pray, silently, without making a show of it all day long and nobody can stop them.

            It’s a shame that this coach is going to lose his job because he feels he must pray on the 50 yard line with students around. One can only assume that he wants to lose his job.

          • Guest

            Of course they can, this is about making a song and dance about it for public display and Jesus made it clear that is not what He expected or respected. That the coach has been offered accommodation and refused it really tells the story.

          • Tom in Raleigh

            I never argue intent in the bible. It has been my experience that it intends different things depending on the reader and is open to interpretation.

            Best to simply follow the law.

    • Cosmic Mastermind

      When religious people talk about “Truth” with a capital “T” what they invariably mean is a belief that suffers from internal inconsistency in it’s logic and has no supporting evidence.

      “Truth” is not truth, it is only your personal belief.

  • Kelly Samuelson

    (Sarcasm) I love how religious freedom is ok as long as it doesn’t involve Christ

    • Cosmic Mastermind

      You should try being an atheist for a day, then you would realize how much privilege you have as a Christian.

      • Kelly Samuelson

        You should try being a Christian for a day and see how difficult it is to stand against everything this world teaches. I don’t call it privilege, because that’s not what it is. It’s Gods grace.

        • Cosmic Mastermind

          What do Christians stand against that non-religious people don’t? Contraception? Equal rights? I can’t think of one single good thing that Christians fight against that non-religious people do not.

          • Guest

            Christians don’t stand against equal rights. Christians were instrumental in overturning plenty of injustices. Aren’t you the guy who supported incest in a previous post? Might want to rethink that, Cosmic.

          • Cosmic Mastermind

            Sure they do. Right-wing conservative Christians in America want to make an exception to the 1st Amendment to overturn secular Government and make America an officially Christian nation where Bible stories are taught as fact in public schools and “non-Christians” are second-class citizens. It was not Christians who pushed for the end of slavery in America, in fact Christian preachers all over America considered it blasphemous, it took atheists like Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln to do that. Why does the Catholic Church still not recognize women as priests? There has certainly never been a female Pope. Christians want to see the Cross on every public building but no symbols of any other faith or belief, they want special tax exemptions for churches, pastors and preachers and religious organizations – The Boy Scouts of America receives substantial financial aid in the form of of free accommodation and venues provided mainly by the Armed Forces – taypayer money funding a Christian organization that discriminates against gays and atheists.

            And I do not “support” incest, I just recognize that there is a lot of bad science being promoted for dogmatic reasons.

          • Guest

            I don’t know any of born again Christians who want to overturn the 1 Amendment. You sure do say some funny stuff.

          • Cosmic Mastermind

            First Amendment: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..”

            Millions of Christians in America want the American Government to promote and sponsor Christianity and grant Christians special privileges.
            That is absolutely against the 1st Amendment.

          • Joe Blow

            Ah no, many of the founding fathers of this country were Christians, and in fact wrote in the First Amendment to protect the very freedoms which they didn’t have in Europa.

            The First Amendment is about the free exercise for religion and protection form the government interfering in the Church (establishment clause). What you’re saying is completely nonsensical. You have is all wrong.

          • Guest

            No they do not. They just want to be able to practice their religion without harrassment, something the US has allowed since its inception up until recent years. The First Amendment means that the government stays out of religion, not that it forbids or regulates it. The very thing the founding fathers wished to avoid is happening now.

          • America the Great

            Not true. We do not want secularists to tell our government to prohibit the free exercise of religion. The FFRF agenda is to do exactly that. All you have to do is to is realize I have the right to the free exercise of my religious beliefs, and you do not have the right to infringe on them.

          • Ruthe Tate

            You say funny..I say really STUPID stuff

          • Guest

            Ignore him – he tries to make the discussion about you rather than the topics at had and will bring in any side issue he can to try and distract you.

          • Guest

            You are lying – again. I am discussing the First Amendment, not any other poster. You need to stop trolling Christian sites and find something more constructive to do with your time.

          • Guest

            “Aren’t you the guy who supported incest in a previous post? Might want to rethink that, Cosmic”

            condemned by your own words.

          • Guest

            Yes, he brought up incest, and my reply was very much on topic. I didn’t pull that out of the air. Slow night for the wiccans, huh, Oshtur?

          • Guest

            Do you really think they aren’t going to figure out you are gaming the flagging system? And brining up another thread is ‘on topic’? Your baseless and random personal attacks will be noted by the moderators (you do realize they can see both what was said and who flagged it, right?)

          • America the Great

            That is simply not true. Our founding fathers, scientists, physicians, allowed freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. LOL, Jefferson and Lincoln were not Atheists. Here is what they had to say.

            Isaac Newton English physicist and mathematician (Dec 25, 1642 – Mar 20, 1727) “We account the Scriptures of God to be the most sublime philosophy. I find more sure marks of authenticity in the Bible than in any profane history whatever.” –

            John Quncy Adams Sixth President of the United States (Jul 11, 1767 – Feb 23, 1848) “So great is my veneration for the Bible that the earlier my children begin to read it, the more confident will be my hopes that they will prove useful citizens to their country and respectable members of society.” –

            Blaise Pascal French mathematician, physicist, inventor, and writer (Jun 19, 1623 – Aug 19, 1662) “Jesus Christ is a God whom we approach without pride and before whom we humble ourselves without despair.” –

            Albert Einstein

            Physicist and agnostic (Mar 14, 1879 – Apr 18, 1955)

            “As a child I received instruction both in the Bible and in the Talmud. I am a Jew, but I am enthralled by the luminous figure of the Nazarene….No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life.”

            Fyodor Dostoyevsky

            Russian novelist, writer, essayist and philosopher. (Nov 11, 1821 – Feb 9, 1881)

            “Even those who have renounced Christianity and attack it, in their inmost being still follow the Christian ideal, for hitherto neither their subtlety nor the ardour of their hearts has been able to create a higher ideal of man and of virtue than the ideal given by Christ of old.”

            Ralph Waldo Emerson

            American essayist, lecturer, and poet (May 25, 1803 – Apr 27, 1882)

            “The unique impression of Jesus upon mankind – whose name is not so much written as ploughed into the history of this world – is proof of the subtle virtue of this infusion”

            “Jesus belonged to the true race of prophets. He saw with open eyes the mystery of the soul. One man was true to what is in you and me.”

            “Thus is [Jesus], as I think, the only soul in history who has appreciated the worth of man.”

            H.G. Wells

            English Novelist, teacher, historian, journalist (Sep 21, 1866 – Aug 13, 1946)

            “I am an historian, I am not a believer, but I must confess as a historian that this penniless preacher from Nazareth is irrevocably the very center of history. Jesus Christ is easily the most dominant figure in all history.”

            Napoleon Bonaparte French military and political leader (Aug 15, 1769 – May 5, 1821)

            “Well, then, I will tell you. Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and I myself have founded great empires ; but upon what did these creations of our genius depend? Upon force. Jesus alone founded His empire upon love, and to this very day millions would die for Him I think I understand something of human nature ; and I tell you, all these were men, and I am a man : none else is like Him ; Jesus Christ was more than man. . . I have inspired multitudes with such an enthusiastic devotion that they would have died for me, . . but to do this it was necessary that I should be visibly present with the electric influence of my looks, of my words, of my voice. When I saw men and spoke to them, I lighted up the flame of self-devotion in their hearts. . . . Christ alone has succeeded in so raising the mind of man towards the Unseen, that it becomes insensible to the barriers of time and space. Across a chasm of eighteen hundred years, Jesus Christ makes a demand which is beyond all others difficult to satisfy; He asks for that which a philosopher may often seek in vain at the hands of his friends, or a father of his children, or a bride of her spouse, or a man of his brother. He asks for the human heart ; He will have it entirely to Himself. He demands it unconditionally ; and forthwith His demand is granted. Wonderful ! In defiance of time and space, the soul of man, with all its powers and faculties, becomes an annexation to the empire of Christ. All who sincerely believe in Him, experience that remarkable supernatural love towards Him. This phenomenon is unaccountable ; it is altogether beyond the scope of man s creative powers. Time, the great destroyer, is powerless to extinguish this sacred flame ; time can neither exhaust its strength nor put a limit to its range. This is it which strikes me most ; I have often thought of it. This it is which proves to me quite convincingly the Divinity of Jesus Christ.” –

            Thomas Jefferson Third President of the United States of America (April 13, 1743 – July 4, 1826) “I hold the precepts of Jesus as delivered by Himself, to be the most pure, benevolent and sublime which have ever been preached to man…” “God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever.” “The Christian religion is the best religion that has ever been given to man.” – Jefferson Memorial –

            John Adams Second President of the United States of America (Oct 30, 1735 – Jul 4, 1826) “It is no slight testimonial, both to the merit and worth of Christianity, that in all ages since its promulgation the great mass of those who have risen to eminence by their profound wisdom and integrity have recognized and reverenced Jesus of Nazareth as the Son of the living God.” “The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were … the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.” “As the safety and prosperity of nations ultimately and essentially depend on the protection and the blessing of Almighty God, and the national acknowledgment of this truth is not only an indispensable duty which the people owe to Him.” –

            Samuel Adams American statesman and Founding Father. (Sep 27, 1722 – Oct 2, 1803) “The name of the Lord (says the Scripture) is a strong tower; thither the righteous flee and are safe (Proverbs 18:10). Let us secure His favor and He will lead us through the journey of this life and at length receive us to a better.” “I [rely] upon the merits of Jesus Christ for a pardon of all my sins.” “We have this day [Fourth of July] restored the Sovereign to whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in Heaven, and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His Kingdom come.” –

            George Washington First President of the United States of America (Feb 22, 1732 – Dec 14, 1799) “It is impossible to reason without arriving at a Supreme Being. Religion is as necessary to reason, as reason is to religion. The one cannot exist without the other. A reasoning being would lose his reason, in attempting to account for the great phenomena of nature, had he not a Supreme Being to refer to.” “Oh, eternal and everlasting God, direct my thoughts, words and work. Wash away my sins in the immaculate blood of the Lamb and purge my heart by Thy Holy Spirit. Daily, frame me more and more in the likeness of Thy son, Jesus Christ, that living in Thy fear, and dying in Thy favor, I may in thy appointed time obtain the resurrection of the justified unto eternal life. Bless, O Lord, the whole race of mankind and let the world be filled with the knowledge of Thee and Thy son, Jesus Christ.” –

            Mahatma Ghandi Leadership of Indian independence movement (Oct 2, 1869 – Jan 30, 1948) “Jesus; a man who was completely innocent, offered himself as a sacrifice for the good of others, including his enemies, and became the ransom of the world. It was a perfect act.” –

            Francis Bacon English philosopher, statesman, scientist, and author. (Jan 22, 1561 – Apr 9, 1626) “There are two books laid before us to study, to prevent our falling into error; first, the volume of the Scriptures, which reveal the will of God; then the volume of the Creatures, which express His power. Let no man … think or maintain that a man can search too far or be too well studied in the book of God’s word, or in the book of God’s works; divinity or philosophy; but rather let men endeavor an endless progress or proficience in both.” –

          • LadyFreeBird<In God I Trust

            I know some Atheist who are Pro-Life. They fight with the Christians trying to save the Unborn Human lives. Si it is not only Christians.
            I know some Atheist who do not suupoty SSM. It is not only Christians.

        • acontraryview

          Would you give me some examples how difficult it is to “stand against everything this world teaches”?

      • Joe Blow

        How persecuted are you for being an atheist?

        • Cosmic Mastermind

          I didn’t use the word “persecute” but atheists are discriminated against. In some States, atheists are still – illegally – barred from holding public office. I could cite a hundred other examples.

      • Rhayven Coats

        Atheists are not getting their heads chopped off in other countries…..or jailed like Christians are.

        In a sense…Western Christians and atheists in said western locations are both privileged when compared to their Muslim and Eastern Christian counterparts….

        • Cosmic Mastermind

          Well.. atheists do get executed (and worse) in Islamic Countries, and they are considered the lowest of the low, even beneath Jews and Christians; “peoples of the book” are permitted to live so long as they pay the jizya tax (an extortion racket) but atheists don’t even have that option in Islam; Islam decrees death for heretics and apostates. So, as far as Islamic Countries go, you’re probably safer as a Christian than an Atheist.

      • Jeff Tilley

        Another atheist “victim” … they’ve been whining about their victim status for years. Just wait until their “favored” religion, Islam takes over. They will be begging to peel back the years to when this country was a tolerant “Christian” nation.

        • Kandy

          “Cosmic Mastermind” Loves to play the game of telling Christians to spend a day being an Atheist.I once told him to spend a day walking as a Christian around Atheist. When Islam takes over maybe he will realize Christians were not his enemies.

          • Cosmic Mastermind

            I’m not sure being the lesser of two evils makes you the good guys.

        • Cosmic Mastermind

          Why would you think I favor Islam over Christianity? I don’t, far from it, I consider Islam to be a savage and backward death-cult.

          I’m not a victim, I live in the UK, so I have it easy, but being an atheist or agnostic in America is still even today considered abnormal.

          • Joe Blow

            Why do even care about this issue? It does even apply to you.

          • Cosmic Mastermind

            Because I care about what happens to people in other Countries, especially English-speaking Western Countries that have close relations with Europe and the UK. It matters, and as someone once said “when America sneezes, the World catches a cold” – what happens in the United States can affect other Countries.

  • Josey

    God is victorious over satan all the time, let the atheists or satanic whatever come, it will be like when Moses whom God used to deliver His ppl from a satanic king when his staff that turned into a snake and devoured Pharoah’s magicians snakes. You are either on the side of God and Christ Jesus who is God or the loser the devils no matter what you call yourself. No child of God need worry about these who follow satan, the Name of Jesus is above every Name under Heaven! Glory to His Name 4ever!

    • Kandy

      One day all these Atheist/Satanist Groups will face Christ whom they tried to kick out of everything. Sometimes it looks as though they are winning the battle. But.In the end it is Christ who wins the battle.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/CgntvDssdnt CgntvDssdnt

    its really simple folks.

    if Christians get to do this, so should these guys.

    But if the Christians were prevented from doing this, these guys should also be prevented.

  • Rebecca

    The satanic and praying…lol

  • Mike Ayangaor

    Sorry for you, America, a religion that would stop the whole game will soon be praying and stopping people from the games. You guys are blind. You can’t stop prayers. Prayers must be done either to the Most High God in the name of Jesus or to other gods. Nebuchadnezzar didn’t completely stop prayers in his time, he only stopped prayers to others gods except the one he created.

  • http://www.remnantofgod.org/ John1429dotorg

    Sound familiar? It should. It echoes the same dried out politically motivated “good morals” play
    acting of days gone by when homosexual laws were suggested to local officials and then the Supremely evil Court. How well did that work out? Homosexual marriage is now legal. Plus, we also need to keep in mind that the Supremely evil Court is Roman Catholic by majority (6 to 3) and the 3 that are not Catholic are Jews that hate Christ as a prerequisite to their faith. That being said, is it possible a Vatican controlled Supremely evil Court would ever sanction prayers to Satan in government offices? I think yes. After all, the Vatican is no stranger to devil worship. They were recently caught red handed (literally) worshiping Satan inside Vatican walls.

  • Nidalap

    What? You mean a group of the attendees didn’t spontaneously join in with them? Funny how that works out! (^_^)

  • Josey

    I will pray as I am lead to by the Holy Spirit of God and where He wants me to pray and as I decide, I don’t care what anyone says, my confidence isn’t in man but in God. I stand with this coach to pray on the 50 yd line, he isn’t hurting anyone and is blessing the ppl. Why are ppl so afraid of a coach praying on the field or anywhere for that matter. It is satan that is afraid of ppl who believe in and trust in Christ Jesus and satan is afraid of the Name of Jesus, the Name that is above every other Name given under Heaven, there is power in the Name of Jesus, He is God!

  • Reason2012

    It’s not a “religion” to take parts of Christianity (satan in this case) for the intent of mocking it – it’s a hate group being used to silence Christians. A claim to want to “pray” to satan is a complete farce.

  • acontraryview

    Isn’t it great that we live in a country with free speech?

  • America the Great

    “The school district violated federal law by denying Coach Kennedy’s request for religious accommodation. Their violation of the law cannot go unanswered,” said Senior Counsel Mike Berry. “We are committed to protecting Coach Kennedy’s right to religious freedom.”

    This is the answer to every personal scenario on Public property. There must be religious accommodation or withdrawing that freedom is against the law. We have the RIGHT to express our religious beliefs because of our religious freedoms.

    If the Atheist wants to pray to Satan at a football game, expect what you get. Satanism isn’t considered a religion, it does not get tax exemption rights, and if these Atheists want to disrupt our freedom of religion, Christians are certainly going to stand up for our rights on a Football field, or any other designated area. You certainly don’t see the FFRF sending letters to the National Football League when players and coaches pray after a game, and if that is the case, it is not right to not allow this coach to pray in private on the Football field period.