Oklahoma Senator Introduces Bill to Criminalize Abortion as First-Degree Murder

Photo Credit: Oriol Martinez
Photo Credit: Oriol Martinez

OKLAHOMA CITY, Okla. — In a move that is unprecedented nationwide, an Oklahoma Senator has introduced a bill that would criminalize abortion as first-degree murder.

Sen. Joe Silk, R-Broken Bow, recently introduced S.B. 1118 which adds killing an unborn child to existing murder statutes.

“No person shall perform or induce or attempt to perform or induce an abortion after conception,” it reads. “A person commits murder in the first degree when that person performs an abortion as defined by Section 1-745.5 of Title 63 of the Oklahoma Statutes.”

The bill defines abortion as “the use or prescription of any instrument, medicine, drug or any other substance or device to intentionally kill an unborn human being” and provides the unborn with protection from the moment of conception.

The bill is stated to come as the result of a petition signed by over 30,000 Oklahoma residents, calling for lawmakers to immediately present legislation that would result in a complete end to abortion in the state.

“[W]e hereby respectfully demand that our state government stop protecting the murder of children by abortion within its jurisdiction and establish justice for all pre-born human beings in our state,” the petition reads in part. “We demand that our legislators stop passing laws to regulate abortion and instead outlaw all abortion as murder. ”

“We demand that these changes be made now—not five, ten or fifteen years down the road,” it continues. “In short, we the people of the state of Oklahoma demand the total and immediate abolition of human abortion as the legal, constitutional and moral duty of our elected and appointed officials.”

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The petition had been circulated by the Abolitionist Society of Norman and hundreds of supporters across the country who traveled to Oklahoma to help obtain signatures.

“This bill aims to protect all children from destruction in Oklahoma, and bring Oklahoma law into compliance with the United States Constitution,” the group said in a press release. “This bill unabashedly defies the Supreme Court’s perversion and denunciation of the constitutional right to life, and seeks to establish justice for those being deprived of life without due process of law.”

A similar bill was also recently presented by Sen. Nathan Dahm, R-Broken Arrow, that would revoke the medical license of any physician who performs an abortion.

“Any physician participating in the performance of an abortion shall be prohibited from obtaining or renewing a license to practice medicine in this state,” S.B. 1552 reads. “No person shall perform or induce an abortion upon a pregnant woman. Any person violating this section shall be guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not less than one year nor more than three years in the state penitentiary.”

Both bills are scheduled for a hearing on Tuesday before the Oklahoma Senate.

Hodge
Hodge

As previously reported, nearly 60 million children have been murdered in the womb since the 1973 U.S. Supreme Court decision of Roe v. Wade. Abortion was likewise the subject of several legal battles in early America as many lawmakers, lawyers and doctors adamantly fought against it.

In an introductory lecture to his course on obstetrics in 1854, Philadelphia obstetrician Hugh Lennox Hodge stated that an abortionist is a “charlatan, who sustains his existence by the price of blood.” He explained that if a woman were to come to a medical doctor in pursuit of an abortion, “he must, as it were, grasp the conscience of his weak and erring patient and let her know in language not to be misunderstood that she is responsible to her Creator for the life of the being within her.”

“We blush, while we record the fact that in this country, in our cities and towns, in this city, where literature, science, morality and Christianity are supposed to have so much influence; where all the domestic and social virtues are reported as being in full and delightful exercise; even here, individuals, male and female, exist, who are continually imbruing their hands and consciences in the blood of unborn infants,” Hodge said.

“So low, gentleman, is the moral sense of community on this subject,” he continued. “So ignorant are even the greater number of individuals, that even mothers in many instances shrink not at the commission of this crime, but will voluntarily destroy their own progeny, in violation of every natural sentiment, and in opposition to the laws of God and man.”

Editor’s Note: Those wishing to encourage the Oklahoma Senate to abolish abortion may contact the state senators here.

Abortion is Murder from I’ll Be Honest on Vimeo.

 


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  • Cady555

    A non viable fetus is not a person.

    • jael2

      Did you watch the video?

      • Cady555

        No. And I do not intend to.

        I have no use for emotional manipulation and lies.

        And I do not get moral guidance from hypocrites who claim to be “pro life” but would let women die of a miscarriage. Or who claim to be pro life but refuse to demand sex ed and access to long term contraception which are proven to reduce abortion. Or who claim to be pro life but refuse to feed, clothe, educate and provide health care for the children they insist be born.

        But every time Christians can choose between actually reducing abortion and shaming sexually active women, they choose shaming. Every time.

        If goody goody christians ever act pro life rather than just talking pro life, maybe I’ll listen. I’m not holding my breath.

        • Sharon

          so you choose to willfully remain ignorant and spew lies and democratic talking points! How about you take a look at what you think is ok to do to another human being. it is a person . The Bible tells us that God knows each one of us before we were ever knit in the womb!! THAT MEANS each of us is a person.. start to finish!

          • Cady555

            You believe the bible condemns abortion. I don’t. You believe a collection of cells without functioning organs has a soul. I don’t. Your religious beliefs do not trump mine.

            I believe women have value. I believe her physical, financial and emotional health matter more than a collection of cells that may become a person. And nothing written by people who did not know squat about cellular biology will change my mind.

            So, you make choices for your own life and keep your bible out of other people’s business.

          • Becky

            “…keep your bible out of other people’s business.”

            And, yet you’re here…on a Christian site.

          • Cady555

            Yes. It is important for all of us to listen to voices we disagree with.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Haha – good one, Becky! Way to point out the rank hypocrisy of the pro-abort!

          • jael2

            Hi Cady,
            Did you watch the video “of the collection of cells?” Scroll back up the page.

          • Cady555

            No. I get scientific and medical information from reliable sources. I’m not interested in lies and emotional manipulation. It comes in handy to be able to tell the difference.

        • yael58

          Cady555, I am a Christian and I must agree with everything you’ve just said. I too, am sick and tired of the hypocrisy. I am also tired and disgusted with the mentality of “the boys are allowed to go out and play, but in the end the girls must pay”.
          Thankfully, there are Christians now who provide real and practical help to women in crisis pregnancies–and they don’t engage in blaming and shaming.
          That said, I think abortion is the most damning commentary of just how miserably our society has failed its women and its children. And yes, even its men.

          • Cady555

            Thanks. There is so much we could have in common if those claiming to be pro life really were.

            But when those claiming that abortion kills a human life refuse to advocate for sex ed and access to long term contraception, it beconrs clear this is about control over women’s sexuality and has zip to do with human life.

        • Virginia Torres

          First of NO WOMAN HAS EVER DIED FROM MISCARRIAGES!!!!!! Really come back when you get real facts! Abortion is MURDER! Why are you allowed to live but an innocent baby in the womb has no degree of worth? You people are of no worth if you do not have any value of life!

          • Bob Johnson

            You may wish to look up the death of Savita Halappanavar of Ireland in 2012.

          • Cady555

            Women do die from miscarriage, usually when a christian hospital refuses to provide adequate medical care to the mother. The fetus, even in an ectopic pregnancy, that cannot survive is given preference. If a woman dies with the fetus so be it. All caps ignorance does not change reality.

          • liekasambodi

            Not true. Miscarriage carries the very real risk of bleeding to death. It’s just like giving birth, you bleed, and sometimes it doesn’t stop, and you die. Please come back when you have a source.

          • Mickey

            How ignorant and arrogant.

        • Virginia Torres

          Another thing there are more clinics opening up that will help the mother get a job, give her food and shelter as well as everything she needs so there is NO excuse to KILL A HUMAN BEING!

          • Cady555

            Have you paid any attention whatsoever to what Republican politicians have done just in the last few years? One destroyed the education system in Kansas. Another poisoned an entire town in Michigan. There are school districts in Mississippi with more students than desks. Funds for food stamps are being cut.

            There are more services? Sorry, dearie, that is a lie.

        • Max

          Funny, you’re fine with the “emotional manipulation and lies” from the pro-abortion side. Doesn’t sound like you have a conscience.

          • Cady555

            I have enough morals to care about people alive on this planet. I have enough morals not to consider forced birth as a penalty for a sexually active female.

        • Brad F

          Sad not to have a heart.

          • Cady555

            Yes. Lacking in heart is epitomized by the pro birth crowd who insist that children be born, then vlifify their mothers for being sexually active; who insist that those without the financial resources be forced to give birth then would deny that family maternity leave and any form of financial assistance.

            Yes, i have way too much compassion and empathy, way too much heart, to join those who scream “pro life.”

      • Carcosa

        you mean the fake one?

    • Daniel Kuecker

      Please define “non viable.” a non viable fetus would abort itself, so there is not need of an abortion

      • gogo0

        “abort itself”?
        if a fetus is a thinking person, then that sounds like suicide.
        isn’t suicide a sin?

        • Daniel Kuecker

          I am sorry, I did not realize I was speaking over your head. I will re-word it for you. The mother’s body will naturally abort it if is non viable.

          • gogo0

            a natural abortion… that’s when god’s plan is for the fetus to be aborted? ah, so god aborted the baby! thanks, I get it now

          • Daniel Kuecker

            If there is a physical issue where the baby cannot survive, yeah, it gets aborted. The difference is God does it, not man crushing a “fetus” skull after ripping the arms and legs off.

          • Godless Heathen

            What God?

          • Godless Heathen

            Which God?

          • gogo0

            all of them except the FSM

    • Virginia Torres

      Are you really that stupid? My baby at 4 weeks gestation had her brain, heart and nervous system…more than what I can say about you and you were permitted to live. You people are nonviable!

      • 5_ever

        So, you’re a proponent of only the lives of the unborn.

      • gogo0

        your position, hypocritical as it is, is nonviable

      • Anne Green

        And your baby was the size of a sesame seed. You would be very hard pressed to identify it as human.

        • 0pus35

          People with compassion don’t think like you do.

      • Mickey

        We’re sorry you were permitted to live much less procreate.

    • calduncan

      By your warped morality, it would be OK to kill a person who is in a coma.

      • Cady555

        Is the person in the coma attached with a tube to another person, requiring that other person to provide nutrients and sustenance?

  • John Robenault

    Praise God!

  • Joe Saxon

    This is hilarious. Such a law probably won’t be passed, but even if it did, it would not pass constitutional muster. Joseph Silk must be inhaling fracking fluids. But, he reputation in the Oklahoma Senate precedes him.

    • Jason Storms

      Joe, Roe v Wade is a gross perversion of the Constitution. There is no “right to kill your offspring in the womb” found anywhere in the text, explicit or implicit, nor anywhere documented in the intentions of the drafters and ratifiers of the document. In fact quite the opposite.
      Courts cannot make law, we have been allowing them to do so for far too long. Joe Silk, BTW, is a very intelligent and courageous man, a rare and much needed politcial statesmen

      • Ambulance Chaser

        The fact that you don’t like a SCOTUS rulings does not mean it doesn’t exist. Your interpretation of the Constitution does not supersede the Supreme Court’s.

      • gogo0

        however in this case, he is another slimy politician wasting state resources on unconstitutional efforts he know will fail to do anything except spin his anti-abortionist voters into a frenzy

      • Joe Saxon

        There is no right to work, either, in the Constitution.

        Abortion was decided by the SCOTUS, which is mentioned in the Constitution,

    • Cady555

      Nope. He is just doing this to round up voters for the next election and cut advertising costs. This is just pandering on the taxpayer’s dime.

  • Joe Saxon

    Also, SB 1552 conflicts with existing law requiring anyone performing an abortion in Oklahoma to be a licensed physician. Do all these nutcases in Oklahoma have to do is look like morons?

  • acontraryview

    “The bill is stated to come as the result of a petition signed by over 30,000 Oklahoma residents…In short, we the people of the state of Oklahoma”

    Wow. There’s only 30,000 people left in Oklahoma? Well i can’t say as I’m surprised.

    • Joe Saxon

      T. Russell Hunter and his AHA ilk are idiots.

  • WorldGoneCrazy

    Excellent work, Oklahoma!

    • Joe Saxon

      ONE fracking fluid inhaling Senator!

    • Carcosa

      why? it;s just dog and pony show to placate idiots like you,

    • http://www.bing.com/ Martin Smit

      Pass it every 3 months in every state until it sticks. Lawmakers must protect the weak from the strong, and the innocent from the guilty.

      • Godless Heathen

        Waste of time money. Need to start weeding these evangelicals out of government. They are just wasting time and money. I will fight at every turn to keep religion out of my government.

        • Cady555

          They use their taxpayer paid position to advertise for reelection. They know the law won’t pass. But they get lots of free advertising as they pander to voters.

          Isn’t that unethical?

          • Godless Heathen

            I would argue emphatically yes.

        • http://hosannahighertech.co.tz/blog Stefano D. Mtangoo

          Killing babies with taxpayers money is not waste. Be thankful to God that your mother wasn’t “Pro-choice”

          • James Yakura

            She was. And she chose.

          • [email protected]

            My mother was pro-choice… as are many women with AND without children. Deal with it.

          • Stu

            You should thank the supreme court for giving women the choice and bettering society. When women are forced to carry unwanted children to birth it hurts us all when those kids grow up to be violent criminals.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            How could they have unwanted children if they had wanted sex?

          • Stu

            You answered your own foolish question. Children and sex are two different words because they are two different things. Enough said.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            You are lost. Isn’t the point of this entire subject abortion? Isn’t abortion the killing of a child? Doesn’t sex make babies? Abortion is the ruthless cowardly killing of someone who can’t escape or fight back. You will eventually learn to pick on those who can fight back! Then we will see how much you like what you stand for. Pick on somebody your own size or bigger.

          • Stu

            So does that mean you are now admitting there is such a thing as wanting sex but not wanting a child?

          • no more mr. nice guy

            Grouping and Grasping yet again. You might want to remove the lube from your hands when you grab on to the bar.

          • Stu

            Does that mean you are now admitting there is such a thing as wanting sex but not wanting a child? I’m not going to let the issue go until you address your foolish words first.

            It’s no wonder why your side loses in court time and time again. Your pathetic distraction tactics just dont work.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            Does this mean that you now admit that your lying is sacred?

          • aliceblue

            No, abortion is not the killing of a child.
            Sex can make babies but does not have to.
            Abortion is the ending of a pregnancy.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            Pregnant with what?

          • Mickey

            Don’t worry. These same people have no problem executing them.

          • pelao

            God is not real.

          • Weed should be legal you fool

            savage

          • SK

            prove that god is real.

          • Weed should be legal you fool

            Because a 2000 yr old book about magic people said so, so it must be real.

          • SK

            sounds about right !

          • Weed should be legal you fool

            And i was using “savage” in a humorous way, do you not know memes?
            For example: “Yo Jim just roasted Bob saying he’s a fuckboy”
            “Damn Jim’s a savage”

          • pelao

            LOL. When humans were nothing more than primitive animals, they created gods to explain everything they couldn’t understand. And that was pretty much everything. In modern times we know gods are just made up and we don’t need them to explain stuff anymore. In conclusion, God is for savages not evolved and educated human beings.

          • Monique Lynn

            Because the moment a pro choice woman gets pregnant she will chose to terminate?

          • Jim Jones

            > Killing babies with taxpayers money is not waste.

            No, it’s completely illegal because of the Hyde amendment. That’s why it never happens.

          • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

            there you go with the ‘babies’ dodge again.

            It’s not a baby, and you’re a Liar for Jebus™

      • gizmo23

        So execute women that have abortions or use birth control?

        • no more mr. nice guy

          There is no such thing as an accidental pregnancy. If someone wants to avoid pregnancy, avoid having recreational sex especially since artificial contraception doesn’t work as intended then relying on baby butchering which has been the real purpose all along. We don’t need birth control. What we need is sex control because sex makes babies as it is supposed to do. When we are paying with live ammo [bringing new life into the world], we shouldn’t be using orgasms as the primary purpose. Even animals have mating seasons.

          • Jon

            “Even animals have mating seasons” only the lower animals; all of the hominidae including humans have sex for pleasure.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            Lets sterilize all babies so that pleasure can reign supreme.

          • Jon

            or just teach accurate sex education

          • no more mr. nice guy

            No! Sex education doesn’t work on purpose. If it worked there would be no such thing as abortion. Contraception is purposely flawed thus creating abortion. The only sure way to avoid unwanted pregnancy is to keep from having wanted sex or keeping wanted sex for someone with whom bringing new life into the world is seen as a wonder not as an abscessed tooth or a malignant tumor.We have laws to protect pit bulls; delta smelt; prairie chickens from abortion but not babies. It’s not all about women. Women don’t become pregnant by themselves.

          • YourAtheistFriend

            Your saviors mother did lol.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            Immaculate isn’t dirty you heathen.

          • aliceblue

            Bases on your first 3 sentences I think you’d be doing the world a favor if you permanently abstained from sex.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            What ever happened to self-control?

          • Mickey

            Already has.

          • gizmo23

            So what I believe is true. It it’s about abortion it is about controlling peoples lives and sex lives

          • no more mr. nice guy

            You deceive yourself because there is no such thing as a stork.

          • Jim Jones

            There’s also no such thing as a compassionate conservative!

          • no more mr. nice guy

            Generalizations aren’t valid. Actually, they are bigoted. Your bigotry is stifling.

          • YourAtheistFriend

            So if generalizations aren’t valid, you can’t generalize all abortions as murder. Your argument has lost all credibility. If generalizations aren’t valid, then you can’t generalize all sex as procreation.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            Wow! Twisting and convolution yet again. Sir Walter Scott had janus-faced situation chaos lovers and spreaders of deceit like you in mind when he said: “Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive”.

          • Kateye70

            All sex is recreational.

            If it isn’t, you’re doing it wrong.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            All sex is procreational. Otherwise, humanity would exterminate itself into extinction. Here is a good idea…since sex is recreational and since pregnancy is dangerous for women, why don’t we abort ALL babies so we don’t discriminate against any woman?

          • Stu

            False. Plenty of people have recreational sex and the species still grows. Your grip on reality is loosening.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            Not when pro-choice really is a cunning cover for pro-death. Baby killing etc is to normal sex what anorexia is to normal diets.

          • Stu

            That was a massive failure on your part. You were unable to stay on topic and address the fact that recreational sex and the proliferation of the species are compatible.

            Would you like to cede that point and continuing discussing other matters?

          • no more mr. nice guy

            Baby killing is to normal sex what anorexia is to a normal diet. Why eat just for taste and then regurgitate when the primary purpose of food is nutrition? Remember Karen Carpenter? This comparison is clearly on point. The proof is your failure to see it!

          • Stu

            Again you’ve failed. Not all eating is done for nutrition and not all chewing is for eating. Not all sex is for procreation.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            There you go again picking fly chit out of the pepper. Your desperation is invigorating. You would contest that under certain circumstances 2+2 isn’t always 4 to undermine the fact that it is whenever parsing suited you. You are a lover of situational chaos.

          • Stu

            Wow project much? Obviously people have used that 2 + 2 statement on you in the past and you are just trying to get ahead of it here.

            It doesn’t work when you say it though since you are the one denying facts.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            You are feckless and factless.

          • YourAtheistFriend

            Why can’t you use facts instead of metaphors? Clearly sex is for whatever the consenting party wants it to be. Read a book called idiocracy, but you wouldn’t like all the facts in it I suppose.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            “Clearly sex is for whatever the consenting party wants it to be”.
            Wow! So two consenting heathens can have sex with the premeditated purpose of securing a pregnancy; butcher the baby inside its Mother’s womb; take the butchered body parts and sell the body parts for use in cosmetics. That’s cannibalism.

          • YourAtheistFriend

            Lol well that would be illegal. If they feel like neither would be good parents and don’t want to bring a child into a world with a bunch of religitards they can have a legal abortion. The fetuses can go to research to heal people, something your imaginary friend is incapable of.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            Eating our young is not only cowardice, its cannibalism far exceeding the horrors of the Nazi’s.

          • YourAtheistFriend

            You lack logic and comprehension.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            You lack both which is why you blame shift it to others. I described just one heathen example of you quotation – an irrefutable example – and you cite it as lacking in logic and comprehension.

          • Dude1244

            Is there something in your past you would like to talk about?

          • no more mr. nice guy

            Is there something in your future you would like to talk about?

          • Stu

            You’re an idiot. Being raped is an accidental pregnancy for the rapee.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            Rape is premeditated against someone’s will. How is it that idiotic people who have wanted sex knowing full well that sex makes babies and then claim they don’t want the natural product of having sex? How does wanted sex comport with unwanted pregnancy when only sex can cause pregnancy?

            If a woman went to bed at 10:00 PM without being pregnant and awakened 9 hours later a full 9 months pregnant with her water breaking ,all without any sexual intercourse with a man, that would be an accidental pregnancy. Then you would blame it on the “stork”.

          • Stu

            I see you failed to address the situation of the victim which is what I specifically mentioned. Instead you tried to distract with irrelevant motives of the abuser.

            Your little scenario doesn’t help your case. A woman could go to sleep and then wake up pregnant if she were drugged and raped. If I drive my car today and someone out there decides to hit my car, I was involved in a car accident regardless of the other person’s motives.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            I addressed it impeccably. You rely on picking the fly chit out of the pepper to assuage your fear.

          • Stu

            Is the sky brown in your world too?

          • no more mr. nice guy

            Sky?

          • Stu

            “Rape is premeditated against someone’s will”

            So is that your way of admitting there is such a thing as accidental pregnancy?

          • no more mr. nice guy

            Your confused. I already explained.

          • Stu

            No, you didn’t. All you’ve done is make asinine statements with no bearing on reality.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            Why do you protest so much? No one wants to force you to believe in God. Why do you insist on nonsensical protestations? Disbelieve all you want but stop trying to force you disbelief on others.

          • Mickey

            “Free will must always be tempered by Fear of the Lord.” Stop trying to force YOUR belief on others.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            I’m not trying to force it. I’m just explaining one can’t authentically exist without the other except of course for the insolent.

          • Mickey

            “must” is inclusive and intolerant and your world view.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            Preeminence demands exclusiveness. Inclusiveness demands malevolence.

          • Jebhel

            That’s not an explanation. It’s a dogma solely based on your belief. Therefore only relevant to you, not others.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            So what!

          • Jebhel

            You presented nothing of value. You probably also believe that a pregnancy resulting from rape or incest is “a gift from god”.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            You are the product of butchered baby parts fit together by a blind man.
            As I have already stated, most rapists don’t ejaculate because rape isn’t crime about sex it’s a hate crime just as killing babies is a hate crime. Pregnancy can’t happen without an ejaculation. When the animals who commit rape do ejaculate it is often moot because some women are too young to become pregnant; some women are too old to become pregnant; and many are on artificial contraception. Of the women who do become pregnant 50% keep the baby or give the baby up for adoption rather than kill it. Rapist have high rates of repeat. Thanks to women haters they are released and rape again.

            So eve when rape causes pregnancy 50% of the raped women see the baby as a gift from God. Did your mother protect you from harm when she was pregnant? Since you are here, she must a have. Why then do you refuse to protect others as you yourself were protected? Is there a cowardice gene?

          • Jebhel

            You can state all you want…that still doesn’t make it true. Your resorting to ad hominems completes the picture you present here…an ignorant zealot who wants to control others. And of course you don’t have a source for your lies.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            Do your homework and stop denying and defying well known facts.

          • Jebhel

            you made the assertion, prove it…and please, not with a bible!

          • no more mr. nice guy

            It’s not an assertion. Do your homework.

          • Habidaccus

            “How is it that idiotic people who have wanted sex knowing full well that sex makes babies and then claim they don’t want the natural product of having sex?”

            -Not all sexual acts result in pregnancy, even without man made contraceptives.

            -Because we’re sentient beings with reasoning ability and free will?

          • no more mr. nice guy

            There is a huge difference between the natural and the unnatural when man makes unnatural decisions and then twists them in an effort to give them credibility which is totally voided by the convolution. It’s called situational chaos.

            Free will isn’t free. It bears a cost. Free will must always be tempered by Fear of the Lord.

          • Jebhel

            You can “fear the lord” all you want. I don’t see the need to “fear” the product of your imagination. And you don’t get to dictate your convoluted idea of having sex only to “make babies” on those who don’t share your childlike dependence on some imagined authority. The religious are obsessed with other people’s sex life and body parts, especially women’s. That’s perverse.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            Will you feel the same way when you are inserted into a wood chipper as a salute to suction grinder abortions? Surely, a massacre is good enough for babies who can’t fight back or escape and, who are completely innocent, such a wonderful act should also be good for the barbaric butchers who champion it for others. Even Godless, soulless; life-hating heathens and selfish and self consumed perverts like you can see the irrefutable precedents you have set!

          • Jim Jones

            How do women avoid rape or incest?

          • no more mr. nice guy

            Most women who are raped etc are either too young or too old to become pregnant or they are taking artificial contraception. Furthermore, since rape is not mainly a crime of passion or sex but rather a cowardly form of rage against women, many rapist’s don’t ejaculate when if they penetrate.Of the women who do become pregnant, 50% keep the child realizing that the inhumane actions of a pathetic pervert should be justified or erased with the butchering of an innocent baby. The mother wasn’t a rapist. Moreover, rapes are exceptions not norms. Rapes are at low levels. You people always try to find an exception to justify your evil norms.
            There numerous adults who have come forward to thank their mothers for choosing life in concert with having been rape. If I understand correctly, Colin Kapernick [quarterback for the San Francisco 49’ers] is one such life.

            Most importantly any animal pretending to be a man who is found without any doubt to have raped a girl or a women should have the weapon he used to accomplish the rape removed from his body as a consequence.
            It’s like gun control. Keep the weapons away from them. Rapists have extremely high rates of repeat offenses.

          • Jim Jones

            Is it OK to make up nonsense like this? What happened to “Do not bear false witness”?

          • no more mr. nice guy

            Facts are stubborn things. Factual Witness isn’t false witness. You are the false witness and your intellectual insolvency; academic anemia and historic deprivation are intoxication and vindicating.

          • Jebhel

            “Most women who are raped etc are either too young or too old to become pregnant or they are taking artificial contraception.” What’s your source for this utter nonsense? Or the preposterous claim that men don’t ejaculate when raping a woman?

          • no more mr. nice guy

            Check it out air head. It’s common knowledge to those who can read and write. Do your own homework. Your ineptness and ignorance mixed with you penchant for bewildering perversion endangers the general welfare.

          • Jebhel

            LOL Common knowledge! Sounds like you have nothing but personal experience?

          • Mr. G.

            You’ll have to excuse no more – he’s running for Congress in a GOP primary.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            How do you avoid it oh one who looks for exception to justify evil norms.

          • Jim Jones

            When Christians were shoving millions of Jews in gas chambers what did they do?

          • no more mr. nice guy

            The Jews learned how to fight back. Today, no one gives them any crap. They learned that you can never play nice or coexist with evil. By the by Christians were not spared in the holocaust. Moreover, Christians who account for 70 to 80 percent of the population have kept you from harm in all wars wars ever fought especially against the Nazi’s. Scum drenched atheists hid or fled.

          • Mickey

            Nobody gives the Jews any crap? Do you not watch the news? They coexist with enemies every day. Xtians are not 70-80% of the pop mainly due to intolerant judgmental orgasm hating people like you.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            If they weren’t feared, they wouldn’t be coexisting given the entrenched animus against them.

          • Mickey

            Your original comment said they can’t coexist. You flipped.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            Typical misstating what others didn’t say. I said: “Today, no one gives them any crap. They learned that you can never play nice or coexist with evil”. That coalesces with; “If they weren’t feared, they wouldn’t be coexisting given the entrenched animus against them.”

            Thus, the Jews can only coexist when their enemies who are trying to annihilate them fear the Jews because of Jewish might. The Jews don’t play nice when it comes to those whose maniacal presence means them extinction.

          • Jebhel

            “Scum drenched atheists”? Your self-made pedestal shows cracks. Being “Christian” does not mean “moral”. History has some pesky facts about that delusion.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            How many Christian died to protect your pathetic reason for being?
            Compared to vermin like you and throughout all of history Christians are lily white. When the public finally turns on you, the first group that evil punks and perverts like you will runs to for protection are Christians.
            Clowns like you don’t have any rules. that way you don’t have to be criticized for breaking you rules. Yet you expect those who have rules to keep such rules…kind of like forcing others into hatchet fights knowing that the others won’t use hatchets because hatchets kill.

            Of course, history shows us what eventually happens when procrastination causes pandemonium.

          • Jebhel

            I see you’re frothing at the mouth. LOL! It’s such Christian “Love” coming through your various insults. Hate like yours eats up your fake pedestal.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            Such ingratitude!

          • Habidaccus

            Of course there is. Not all people are preoccupied with procreation.

            We’ve been providing abstinence only education for years, and it simply doesn’t work. But to be honest I really am having trouble understanding what you’re saying.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            It’s called the primacy of purpose. Many things have more than one purpose. All things have a primary purpose. The primary purpose of sex is procreation. Sex feels good so that we will do it. But orgasms aren’t the primary purpose of sex. If sex hurt, humanity would eventually cease to exist. We slander the primary purpose in favor of a secondary purpose when we kill the product of a sexual union.

          • Jebhel

            What makes you think you are in a position to lecture others on your brand of extremism about human sex life and its “purpose”?

          • no more mr. nice guy

            Invading the womb with murderous baby butchering utensils that dismember; decapitate; disembowel and suction grind a defenseless baby and/or poisons a potions that scald or starve the baby all the while wreaking havoc on the women’s body [ELLA etc] is what EXTREME looks like.

          • Mickey

            Abstinence worked well with its queen, Bristol Palin.

          • Mickey

            Bet you haven’t had an orgasm in years.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            So the purpose of sex is orgasms. Wonderful! Let’s sterilize all babies so that the can have fun and frolic [consequence free upon birth] leveraging the concept of circumcision.

          • Mickey

            Sure is 99.9% of the time. Get over it.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            You are building a case for forced abortion and for post birth abortion not for innocent babies but for those who recklessly adulterate life itself.

          • Mickey

            Nope. Just telling it like it is. You’re the extremist.

          • no more mr. nice guy

            Yep!

        • Jim Jones

          This site is a waste of time. Whoever runs it, they are not Christians. I suspect it’s a GOP front.

        • D.M.S.

          It Won’t matter after the Lord Christ Jesus return.

      • Joe Saxon

        It isn’t gonna becomes law in Oklahoma.

      • Stu

        Throw a rock in the air every 3 months until it floats. It’s the same principal you are using.

        • http://www.bing.com/ Martin Smit

          There’s a full bench of corrupt judges floating up there in the air in glass houses. That rock is not going to beat the air. Lazy politicians folding their hands is what keeps the bloodshed machine alive.

        • Jebhel

          It’s called “government” by republican men.

      • Jim Jones

        How will you protect the fetuses of the rich?

        When Rick Santorum’s wife had her fetus medically killed and extracted to prevent further pre-natal development and eventual birth, it wasn’t an abortion.

        An abortion is when a fetus is medically killed and extracted to prevent further pre-natal development and eventual birth.

        (Of course it’s different when you fly to Switzerland for a “special operation” – as rich women did for decades before Roe v Wade).

        • no more mr. nice guy

          Equality!

      • aliceblue

        It cannot “stick” because any laws passes would violate federal law and be struck down. Oklahoma can’t even fund its schools and you want them to waste money on defective legislation?

    • Becky

      Amen, WGC!!

      • gizmo23

        He is evil to the core. Execute women for using birth control.

        • WorldGoneCrazy

          Poor, Giz, are you still feeling guilty over your involvement in abortion? Are you going to have a meltdown on CNN just like you did on Live Action News? Shall I provide the screenshots? 🙂

      • WorldGoneCrazy

        Right back atya, Becky! Nice work out here. I see where the baby sacrificers have flooded this page, and Gizmo has really gone off of his meds. I’m certain that there is an abortion in his past, and he is doing everything to try to justify it – in his mind only.

        • Maria Gomes

          Reading comments like yours reaffirms my conviction that abortion must remain legal – as you provide some of the most compelling evidence in support of such a procedure.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Did you know that slaveowners were also highly committed to keeping slavery legal? 🙂

          • Maria Gomes

            Yes, using the same arguments from superstition that you use to enslave today’s women. Thanks for recognizing the parallel.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “It’s legal, I have the right to choose, it should be allowed for economic reasons, they aren’t persons, it’s better for them too, mind your own business, who are you to force your religion on me?” Is this a 21st century Democrat defender of the “right” to abort or a 19th century Democrat defender of the “right” to own black people? Answer: Both.

          • Maria Gomes

            Spoken like a true mullah! Now, you go and show those women who’s boss. Make sure they’re covered head to toe and walking 10 feet behind you. After all, it’s what Jeebus would’ve wanted.

          • Bob Johnson

            Ten feet in front of you – landmines.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            I see you made no reply to the proof of similarity of arguments between owning black people and abortion. Both are human rights abuses of the highest order.

            If you think about it, Maria, a woman must first think she owns her preborn child (in a property sense) before she can kill him or her. (Or, sign off on the killing.) In fact, I had a man in favor of abortion admit this when he said:

            “Children are the property of their parents, who have a right to abort them up to the age of 18.” That is a direct and serious quote. He admitted that it was 100% serious. I complimented him on his intellectual honesty – he understands full well the consequences for being in favor of abortion.

          • Mickey

            And I’m sure you are against the death penalty, right? Pro life all the way?

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            As a matter of fact, I am Pro-Life: womb to tomb, so yes, I am against the death penalty, even for terrorists.

            But, the REALLY strange place to be is AGAINST the death penalty for convicted cop killers but FOR the death penalty for 3000 innocent human beings in the womb each day in America. That is downright sick. It’s crazy. And, it’s liberal. 🙂

          • Mickey

            And legal.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Yep, liberals have a long history of making human rights abuses legal and fighting tooth and nail to keep them legal. (see, e.g., slavery and abortion)

          • Mickey

            And repubs have a long history of promoting racists.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “Having for most of my life believed that our acceptance of equality–racial, class, gender–was the result of the overthrow of past superstitions and prejudice by reason, I was perplexed: why had the fight against slavery, and the concern for aboriginal peoples, been so overwhelmingly the province of religious? … Hume, Voltaire, and Kant saw the African–the non-European, generally–as beyond the category of human to which the European belonged; race concerned them (particularly Kant) only to the extent that it could show the superiority of the European. It was not the philosophies of Paris or Edinburgh or East Prussia who fought slavery, but the evangelical Christians and Quakers who drew their inspiration not from philosophy but from ‘superstitious religion’. It was from the Evangelical Revival that the loudest claims for what we now call racial equality came.” — non-Christian historian Robert Kenny

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “I want atheism to be true and am made uneasy by the fact that some of the most intelligent and well-informed people I know are religious believers. It isn’t just that I don’t believe in God and, naturally, hope that I’m right in my belief. It’s that I hope there is no God! I don’t want there to be a God; I don’t want the universe to be like that. My guess is that this cosmic authority problem is not a rare condition and that it is responsible for much of the scientism and reductionism of our time.” — Professor Thomas Nagel, NYU

          • Stu

            Hmm so you don’t know what atheism is. I’m not surprised. Who ties your shoelaces for you?

          • zenlike

            Professor Thomas Nagel is an imbecile, pure and simple. HEe is projecting his own wishful thinking fantasies on others.

          • Stu

            So you are likening anti-abortionists to former slave owners. Very nice.

        • Becky

          Nice work to you, my friend!

          You’re right about the baby sacrificers. They’re a wretched lot.

          • SK

            if i jizz and the millions of non developed babies go down the drain, will that make me a baby sacrificer ?

          • YourAtheistFriend

            Hehe sinner 😉

          • Mickey

            YES! NO CONDOMS!

    • gizmo23

      So you would execute women that use birth control. What a sick pervert

      • WorldGoneCrazy

        “birth control” = “killing babies in the womb” to Gizmo. Poor, Giz, are you still feeling guilty over your involvement in abortion?

      • no more mr. nice guy

        When you were residing naturally in your mother’s womb, were you protected from harm? Since you were, why do you refuse the same protection to others who come after you?

        • gizmo23

          I don’t. I’m pro life

          • no more mr. nice guy

            No you are not. You are pro death.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            If you are pro-life, Giz, then why do you argue against pro-lifers all of the time and advocate for the Abortion Party (formerly the Slavery Party)?!?

          • SK

            pro birth does not equate to pro life.

      • Mickey

        And men. No condoms allowed.

    • Stu

      Hmm you think a massive waste of time and resources is excellent work? You’re an idiot.

    • ParkerDW

      Some simple facts: A zygote/small fetus does not have a consciousness, does not know it is alive, cannot feel pain or any sensations whatsoever, and yet people want to qualify this as a full, complete human life? Farm animals are more alive than a zygote or small fetus, and yet we murder them without restraint for food.

      I do not see abortion during early pregnancy as a moral issue. It should be legal and it should be accessible. All these people claiming to know what God wants are being arrogant. God does not care about a small fetus with no consciousness, but he certainly would care about how we are destroying this beautiful planet’s ecosystems with our selfishness and opulence. You want to focus on a serious issue? How about the fact that we are leaving behind a planet that will not be livable within the next 100 years. Think about how horribly and undeniably immoral that is.

      • WorldGoneCrazy

        “A zygote/small fetus does not have a consciousness, does not know it is alive, cannot feel pain or any sensations whatsoever, and yet people want to qualify this as a full, complete human life?”

        Arguments against size, level of development, and degree of dependency of the human inside of the womb apply equally to the human outside of the womb. You seem to be advocating for killing 1 year olds, 2 year old, 5 year olds, teenagers, etc – all because they are not a “full, complete human life.”

        How… arbitrary… of you.

        “Farm animals are more alive than a zygote or small fetus”

        Comparing preborn babies with farm animals. Nice set of morals. I guess you do not know that farm animals do not have human DNA.

        “yet we murder them without restraint”

        I like your intellectual honesty here: you used the word “murder” and are admittedly advocating for same.

        “I do not see abortion during early pregnancy as a moral issue.”

        It doesn’t matter how you see it – it matters how it is. Most people in the mid-1850’s did not “see” slavery as a moral issue either, and they were about as science-phobic as you are.

        “All these people claiming to know what God”

        Why is it that it is always pro-abort atheists who start talking about religion in the abortion debate?!? Is abortion a religion to you?!? If so, please come over to Live Action News and debate a bunch of pro-life atheists and agnostics.

        “God does not care about a small fetus with no consciousness”

        Prove it! Did you not know that “fetus” is just Latin for “little one?” Jesus seems to talk about the little ones quite a bit – the least of these, the most vulnerable. But, what I find most interesting is that you say that others cannot talk about what God wants, and then you go and make a definitive claim like He “does not care about a small fetus.” Hypocrite much?

        “You want to focus on a serious issue?”

        Already am. If abortion is not a serious issue, why are you spending all of this time talking about it? 🙂

        • SK

          what is the TLDR on this ?

          • ParkerDW

            TLDR: WorldGoneCrazy thinks he’s right because he believes he’s right, and argues against me by making assumptions and logical fallacies..

        • ParkerDW

          Alright, here we go!

          “Arguments against size, level of development, and degree of dependency of the human inside of the womb apply equally to the human outside of the womb. You seem to be advocating for killing 1 year olds, 2 year old, 5 year olds, teenagers, etc – all because they are not a “full, complete human life.”

          -1yo, 2yo, 5yo, etc can feel, have a consciousness, and know they are alive. This argument of yours is empty and nonsensical.

          “Comparing preborn babies with farm animals. Nice set of morals. I guess you do not know that farm animals do not have human DNA.”

          -I’m not talking about DNA, I’m talking about what constitutes life. Animals have a consciousness, can feel and think, unlike a zygote and small fetus. Again, your argument is empty.

          “”yet we murder them without restraint”
          I like your intellectual honesty here: you used the word “murder” and are admittedly advocating for same.”

          – I’m not calling abortion murder, YOU ARE. I’m saying we actually murder animals without restraint, but we do not call that murder. And yet ending something that is less alive than an animal is “murder”. If you don’t understand this simple logic, I can’t help you.

          “Why is it that it is always pro-abort atheists who start talking about religion in the abortion debate?!? Is abortion a religion to you?!? If so, please come over to Live Action News and debate a bunch of pro-life atheists and agnostics.”

          – Did you even read the article?? “In the opposition of God” is written right there.

          “God does not care about a small fetus with no consciousness PROVE IT”

          -Yes, this is just my opinion. But unlike you people, I’m trying to turn my opinion into the law of the land, I’m trying to expand human freedoms so that everyone can choose what they believe.

          “If abortion is not a serious issue, why are you spending all of this time talking about it? :-)”

          -Because anti-choice people like yourself are making it into an issue. It is not an issue for me because it is about individual choice. Environmental degradation affects us all and is one of the greatest threats to the stability of our society.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “I clearly stated how a zygote and small fetus are different and do not constitute a real living being. ”

            You are denying basic biology that shows that human life begins at human conception. To deny that a human zygote, embryo, or fetus is a living being is merely to deny science. You are welcome to hold to your religious superstitions, but please do not force your myths on the rest of us – and especially not on 3000 preborn humans each day in America alone.

            “I’m not talking about human DNA, I’m talking about what constitutes life. ”

            What constitutes human life is what biologists say, not what you say in order to feel better about yourself. And biology is clear: human life begins at human conception. Here are 41 peer-reviewed examples of that (just take the spaces out):

            http://www .lifenews .com/2015/01/08/41-quotes-from-medical-textbooks-prove-human-life-begins-at-conception/

            “it’s murder because they are actually alive”

            Again, the ZEF (zygote, embryo, and fetus) are “actually alive.” You are free to deny embryology, biology, and medicine, but please do not force your superstitions on the rest of us.

            “Yes, this is just my opinion. But unlike you people, I’m not trying to turn my opinion into the law of the land”

            All laws legislate someone’s morality – the question is “whose?” If you don’t think that Roe v Wade was nothing more than subjective opinion, please go back and re-read it. Even liberals like RBG think it was atrocious reasoning – and she is FOR abortion.

            “I’m trying to expand human freedoms so that everyone can choose what they believe.”

            That criteria would include rape, murder, pedophilia, burglary, etc. “Expanding human freedoms” is often the start of a good holocaust. We have laws protecting the most vulnerable for a reason.

            “Because anti-choice people like yourself are making it into an issue.”

            “anti-choice.” smh. So, are you pro-choice about rape, murder, pedophilia, burglary, and slavery?

            “my conclusion is that it is immoral to impose your beliefs onto others when it is not harming something.”

            Ending an innocent life IS harming something – a human being, boy or girl – a possible cancer scientist or president or Heisman trophy winner or great writer, or just a good friend.

            “Because no pain is felt and no consciousness is ended, abortion is not murder.”

            You are for killing sleeping people and / or people who have been drugged up?

            “I doubt your read all that”

            No way – I read every word, and very much appreciate it. I reply long too – goes back to my academic days. 🙂

        • Becky

          I love everything you’ve said…it’s right and good! You’re awesome, WGC!

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Right back atya, Becky! It’s so hard to believe that there are people whose hearts are so hardened that they cannot see how hypocritical is to be given the opportunity to survive the womb and then turn around and deny it each and every day to 3000 innocents in America alone.

            We have had 3 baby saves in the last two weeks, and today I saw the abortionist and I told her that God had saved 3 babies from her recently, and that those babies were alive right now but would have been dead if she had gotten ahold of them. That set her off!

            All she cares about is her new rugs or chandeliers she could have bought off of the blood of those 3 precious babies. So, she called the police on us, and the police basically told her that she was nuts. (She is.) She tried to get us on stepping over a marked line and I laughed and told her deathscorts that we would use THEIR video to prove that we did not. I kept saying “Just produce the video – why won’t you do it? We will use YOUR video.” The police were laughing their heads off – they know that the only time pro-aborts lie is when they open their mouths. 🙂

            Anyway, that is my rant. But, it’s really sick to see some of the comments on this page from pro-aborts. The educational system sure is dumbed down these days. Keep up the great work, Becky – it feels like the days of Noah! God bless!

          • Becky

            Anyone that can defend abortion is definitely not a person that can ever be trusted about anything. They’re evil to the core and they’re getting worse, as I’m sure you know.

            Keep up the good fight, WGC!! Your heart is beautiful. God bless you, too.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            God bless you, too, Becky! I praise God for your good fight in all of this! And, it will be great when we get to meet someday in Heaven!

            “Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father.” — Matthew 13:43

          • Becky

            Amen!!!!

          • zenlike

            My definition of evil is forced birthers like you who would force a 12 year old to carry their own father’s baby to term.

          • Mickey

            Yeah buddy, build that ark. All the rest of us should drown, including children and pregnant women. Just like the first time.

          • Jebhel

            Ah, so you’re one of those who shame women trying to get an abortion! Tell us, did any of you “saviors” adopt these “saved” fetuses?

        • Mickey

          “It matter how it is”. How it is is legal.

    • Weed should be legal you fool

      I like your sarcasm!

  • Kingdom Ambassador

    Praise God! But let’s not overlook that this wouldn’t be necessary had the 18th-century founders established government and society on Yahweh’s unchanging moral (including Exodus 21:22-23) to begin with.

    For more on how Yahweh’s moral law applies today, see free online book “Law and Kingdom: Their Relevance Under the New Covenant.”

    Then, find out how much you REALLY know about the Constitution as compared to the Bible. Take our 10-question Constitution Survey in the right-hand sidebar and receive a complimentary copy of a book that EXAMINES the Constitution by the Bible.

    • Grundune

      Weiland, aka Kingdom Ambassador (of the lower kingdom), is advertising for his campaign to abolish the U.S. Constitution. Strange business for a preacher, abolishing the foundation document of our representative republic. The same document responsible for giving generations of Americans liberty and the freedom to worship God according to the dictates of their consciences.

      • gogo0

        I like this part:

        “But let’s not overlook that this wouldn’t be necessary had the 18th-century founders established government and society on Yahweh’s unchanging moral (including Exodus 21:22-23) to begin with.”
        hopefully he is able to use his credentials as a preacher to further inform people that America was not built on christianity

    • Jim Jones

      > “Yahweh’s unchanging moral [????]”

      Please, quote Yahweh, Numbers 5: 11-31

  • jael2

    Actually, this bill doesn’t go far enough. Instead of an abortionist receiving a paltry sentence of 1-3 years in the penitentiary, he/she should receive the same sentence as one who has murdered a born child. In Oklahoma, first degree murderers receive the following sentences: Death Penalty, Life without Parole, or Life with parole eligibility after 38 years.

    • Jason Storms

      SB 1118 – Would make abortion homicide and give the same penalty as the states homicide statutes

      • jael2

        Jason,
        Thank you for the clarification. I would give full support then.

    • Godless Heathen

      Your momma should have aborted you.

      • Sam Chapman

        It’s not too late for a 40th trimester abortion, is it?

  • Georgie Franklin

    Stupid . Stay the hell out of my vagina!

    • Daniel Kuecker

      Trust me, I will

    • Michael Samuel Miller Jr

      It’s not just YOU, genius. It’s about the innocent life inside you. So sorry that you don’t seem to value ALL human life, but you don’t get to call the shots on that one. It’s not JUST your body…it’s about the OTHER human body, too. And you don’t get to ignore that just because you don’t want to have to endure 9 months of the NATURAL way of LIFE. … But a heartless woman like you probably won’t have any trouble keeping anyone out of your vagina. No one would want to go there anyway.

      • G_Kaven

        Take care of existing children before forcing women to make more. Empty out all the orhanages. Take care of homless children. Solve the problem we have instead of making more!!!

      • SuperTech86

        “It’s not JUST your body”

        Actually it is.

        • Daniel Kuecker

          Actually it belongs to Jesus Christ as he purchased it on the cross.

          • Godless Heathen

            He needs to show me a receipt. I don’t take your word for it.

          • DominoPancakes

            Hahahahahahaha, no, really, pull the other one.

            Xtians are so eager to defend the baby in the womb, but don’t give two shits about it once it’s born.

            I guess you all just want more children so that your priests have some fresh abuse victims right? By maintaining your proclamation that you’re a christian you’re indirectly endorsing child abuse. What other organisation after being caught committing the evil of christianity, could possibly have so many ‘reasonable’ people trying to defend it. How many god botherers have truly reflected upon the revelations of the past decade, and asked themselves questions such as “What kind of an organisation would perpetrate such crimes against humanity?”, “Would an organisation with the power to commit such crimes lie to their followers in order to acquire and maintain that power?”, “Do I truly wish to believe and affiliate myself with such an organisation?”

            If you cannot counter these arguments with anything other than “God/bible/jebus said so” or the good old “No true Scotsman/Christian would ever…” then I must assume that you simply don’t want babies aborted, because you’d much sooner rape them.

          • Mickey

            Catholics disapprove of birth control as well and/or sex between unmarried people.

          • Maria Gomes

            You do know that Jesus never really existed, right? His ‘story’ was just like all of the other ones regarding death and resurrection.

            Please try not to be so superstitious – the world will be a better place when you do.

          • Robert Basamania-Eeten

            Unless there is a bill of sale, a receipt, and an agreement that is easily provable, Jesus Christ has no claim to any woman’s body what so ever.

      • Joe Saxon

        It’s not your call.

      • Rock Cervantes

        LOL

      • Cady555

        A collection of cells without functioning organs is not a person.

        • origwwotp

          oh, I didn’t know organs were endowed during birth. learn something new and stupid everyday reading troll comments.

      • gizmo23

        Conservatives care nothing for life

        • WorldGoneCrazy

          Says the Democrat supporting killing 3000 innocent pre-born babies.

          • Stephanie

            At least we “Democrats” still care about them once they are born. You people cry about innocent lives being ended then you demand that people “get off their asses and off of Welfare and food stamps.” How can you be pro-life yet care nothing about a child once it is born? you don’t care if they go hungry, you don’t care if they are homeless, you don’t care if their parents have enough money to pay the bills because once that child is born, it is no longer an innocent human it is a drain on the system to you and the woman who gave birth “got herself into that situation and she should have to be the only one responsible for that life.” Careful there WGC, your hypocrisy is showing.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Actually, your rant is 100% false. Welfare, food stamps, poverty rates (especially amongst minorities), income inequality, and homelessness has increased under Obama, while the labor participation rate has dipped to Jimmy Carter levels. So, it would appear that liberal economic policies are harmful to the “least amongst us.”

            Furthermore, it has been scientifically proven that conservative religious devote more of their time, treasure, and talent to charitable causes, including secular ones, than liberal secularists:

            http://winteryknight .com/2014/10/14/statistics-on-whether-atheists-are-more-moral-than-religious-people/

            Excerpt:

            “The differences in charity between secular and religious people are dramatic. Religious people are 25 percentage points more likely than secularists to donate money (91 percent to 66 percent) and 23 points more likely to volunteer time (67 percent to 44 percent). And, consistent with the findings of other writers, these data show that practicing a religion is more important than the actual religion itself in predicting charitable behavior. For example, among those who attend worship services regularly, 92 percent of Protestants give charitably, compared with 91 percent of Catholics, 91 percent of Jews, and 89 percent from other religions.”

            Why is this?

            “Substituting political belief for personal sacrifice shows a lack of tangible personal responsibility toward others in need and represents a deeply troubling relationship between ideology and personal action on the political left.” — Arthur C. Brooks

            But, what is particularly disturbing about your thesis is that it promotes a “kill them so that they do not become poor” philosophy. Well, such a view would apply outside of the womb too, would it not?!? Why do Democrats hate the offspring of poor people so much, and why have they enslaved generations of blacks to the welfare plantation? I think this shows a latent racist component to the Democrat Party, which was, after all, the Slavery Party before it became the Abortion Party.

          • Jim Jones

            You are confusing Jimmy Carter with G W Bush,

            They’re easy to tell apart. Jimmy Carter is the one out there trying to help the homeless. G W Bush is the one painting pictures of his feet.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            The exceptions prove the rule I cited. Poor people did objectively far better under Bush than under Carter.

            Nice try. Thanks for playing.

          • Jim Jones

            The middle class was destroyed under Bush. People lost their homes and wound up living in tents under power pylons.

          • Mickey

            Or if they have health insurance. Then ask about the death penalty.

          • http://www.rotten.com/ BloodRedHeadOnFire

            You can’t kill what isn’t born.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            What?!? Did you flunk biology? Of course the human in the womb is alive. Ever seen an ultrasound?!? Please, come out of the Dark Ages.

          • Private Joker

            Did you flunk biology? You don’t even know terms like zygote, embryo, and fetus.

      • Mickey

        Another stupid man. Once you grow a uterus, get back to us.

    • G_Kaven

      They don’t know how to do that

    • Virginia Torres

      Wow, how about you tell that to the one ripping and tearing a poor baby out of your body. Seriously how about you learn some self control! Why should a baby die because of your bad choices?

      • Carcosa

        I don’t see any babies, just fetuses.

        • Daniel Kuecker

          Define fetus.

          • Carcosa

            why?

          • Cady555

            This is basic scientific knowledge. Look it up yourself before telling other people what to do.

      • Stu

        By definition you are wrong, it isn’t a baby.

  • Denise Perez

    You know, I do hope this bill goes the distance so to speak. Maybe it will change how people think, both men and women. Planned Parenthood’s “mission statement” in the seventies was to ” educate”. I accompanied two different women; in the eighties, a cold reception and she was practically thrown out with birth control pills, no “education”. Twice in the nineties, the same treatment and ” education” to the other woman. How hard is it to say to a woman, look if you do not want to take any pharma, because of the eminence side effects, you must learn to exercise self control. The likelihood of getting pregnant is at the very end of your cycle. You must keep a calendar. Fourteen days later, you will be very fertile again. Keep a three day window. In other words, if you are at the end and only spotting, that is day one. Do not have sex for another two days. At the half of the twenty one day cycle, keep three days before and three days afterward for a total of six days with no sex. This only works for women whose cycles are like clockwork, consistent and true. A child is brought into this world by mutual agreement: not to trick a man into a “committed relationship” or gain some financial advantage and certainly not for some ridiculous ignorant notion that “my love will change him” — yes we have all heard women say and do this stupidity and it must stop. In terms of rape, the likelihood of getting pregnant is wholly dependent on the woman’s emotional state. If she is “relaxed” ( inaccurate definition, it should be “resigned”) the likelihood of pregnancy is high if of course, the barbaric Act falls on those fertile cycles. Regardless, the punishment for “rape” of a child or adult must be upgraded so to speak. If I had my way, it would warrant the death penalty since the victims are never the same again and in some cases, kill themselves. The whole purpose of the law is to make the victim whole, clearly this has been overlooked conveniently? In short a female has to learn the difference between being a “girl” – reckless and careless and a “woman” – cautious and forthright… Peace…..

    • Godless Heathen

      Keep preying on the less fortunate. That is the definition of your religion.

    • 5_ever

      Proper sex education would have taught you that a fertility calendar is one of the least reliable birth control methods. People like you spreading misinformation are the exact reason why Planned Parenthood is a necessity.

      • gogo0

        republicans claim that illegal immigrant welfare babies are used to prop up the democrat electorate, I think they are guilty of using evangelical mothers ignorant basic sex education to prop up their own

        • Jim Jones

          That’s why they’ll never outright ban abortion. The backlash would wipe them out faster than Friedrich Drump’s grandson.

      • Denise Perez

        No actually, I consider surgical procedures to be the most effective means of birth control. But this method clearly is absolute and not one I encourage to the immature. It is enough that we openly teach our young to look before they leap so to speak. Wouldn’t you agree?

        • 5_ever

          There’s a massive difference between spreading misinformation and teaching young people to independently learn things. I assure you that you are advocating the prior.

    • gogo0

      or they could just wear a condom. why use complicated, imprecise, and ineffective methods when a simple device that PP gives out for free provides 99% protection?

    • bunnychi75

      Uh, yeah, if you truly believe that the calendar method is a reliable method of birth control, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you! Even when I was a kid, that, and the ‘pull-out’ method were not sound means of birth control!

      • Cady555

        What do you call people with rhythm? Parents.

      • Denise Perez

        No actually, I consider the surgical procedure to be the best means of birth control. But this method clearly is absolute and not one I encourage to the immature. It is enough to speak openly of teaching our young to essentially look before they leap so to speak. Wouldn’t you agree?

        • bunnychi75

          Hm, yes, it is very effective. But you are right, it is absolute, and usually recommended for women who’ve had at least a couple of kids; from my understanding, it’s done right after birth, especially a C-Section, while she’s still open. Vasectomies are effective, as well, but the man has to be willing to do it. Plus, between the couple, his would be the less evasive. In fact, it’s considered an outpatient procedure. They’re commended for men who’ve had at least one child.

          I know a friend who managed to get one done, and has never had children. He just thought he wouldn’t be a good parent, and he wanted to take ‘slip ups’ out of the equation. It took a lot of searching to find a doctor willing to give him the procedure while being childless, and he did it. Needless to say, I was shocked. But, that was his body, his choice.

          As far as teaching our young openly, that can help in some ways, as long as the child’s peers haven’t gotten to them yet. I was lucky to have parents who were straight-forward with me on the birds and bees. As far as some parents today…I really can’t say if they’re sticking their own heads in the sand, or they’re just too embarrassed to even discuss the topic with their own kids. I say, if you don’t do, someone else will, and they’ll lead them wrong.

    • yael58

      And males must learn to keep their flies zipped and their pants up.

    • Jim Jones

      > Planned Parenthood’s “mission statement” in the seventies was to “educate”.

      Margaret Sanger used her writings and speeches primarily to promote her way of thinking. She was prosecuted for her book Family Limitation under the Comstock Act in 1914. She was afraid of what would happen, so she fled to Britain until she knew it was safe to return to the US.Sanger’s efforts contributed to several judicial cases that helped legalize contraception in the United States.

      In 1916, Sanger opened the first birth control clinic in the United States, which led to her arrest for distributing information on contraception.

      Her subsequent trial and appeal generated controversy. Sanger felt that in order for women to have a more equal footing in society and to lead healthier lives, they needed to be able to determine when to bear children. She also wanted to prevent unsafe abortions, so-called back-alley abortions, which were common at the time because abortions were usually illegal.

      She believed that while abortion was sometimes justified it should generally be avoided, and she considered contraception the only practical way to avoid the use of abortions.

      In 1921, Sanger founded the American Birth Control League, which later became the Planned Parenthood Federation of America.

      Planned Parenthood prevents more abortions than any other group in the USA.

      Christian ‘Evangelicals’ cause and have more abortions than any other group in the USA.

      • Denise Perez

        Sanger proposed mere “bandages”much like the current healthcare industry provides complete healing, ” practice “. It means nothing without understanding and you are afraid. Afraid that toying with a woman’s heart will come to an end and keeping her stupid to not know her own mind and heart is a way of objectification. In terms of religion, I consider organized religion by it definition: it is compilations by “men” to curry favor with God. To which I now add “and with other men,” in light of Islam’s recent “scientific” finding that women are likened to a beast – a camel to say the least. Your post confirms my position to teach the young to “look before they leap” in any and all endeavors. Think, not just “feel”, ask questions don’t make assumptions……

  • G_Kaven

    How do all you nice Christian ladies and gentlemen plan on taking care of all the POST BIRTH fetuses that are walking around now and the increased number of them if this crap is passed??

    • Bob Johnson

      “Are there no prisons? And the workhouses. Are there still in operation?” Ebenezer Scrooge

      • G_Kaven

        Never fight a land war in Asia -Sun Tazo

    • Virginia Torres

      Wow, are you really that blind…more than enough Christian families have adopted unwanted babies, the question here isn’t about us Christians not having heart, but what about you? You are soooooooo quick to suggest that a baby should die because you don’t want the responsibility…I don’t see any of you pro-aborts out there trying to help those girls find reasonable help! You say throw away the baby and all your problems will be solved, yet you demons fail to remind those girls the pain that comes from abortion…MENTAL, PHYSICAL and EMOTIONAL pain. Abortion has cause 10,000 + deaths in the last year and more in suicide.

      • Stephanie_Bell

        Mental, physical and emotional pain…really? I had nothing but relief with my abortions.

        • gogo0

          prepare yourself, surely there are some dedicated pro-lifers preparing to inform you that your feelings are wrong

        • jael2

          Dear Stephanie,
          If you felt nothing but relief, then God has turned you over to a reprobate mind. The Bible clearly states that murderers will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.

          • Sam Chapman

            Me too Me too! Turn me over to a reprobate mind. I deny the wholly spirit and stuff. /eyeroll

          • DominoPancakes

            hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

          • Jim Jones

            The bible states that killing a baby isn’t murder. Yahweh encourages it for non Jews.

            Psalm 137:8

            8 O daughter of Babylon, you devastated one, How blessed will be the one who repays you with the recompense with which you have repaid us.

            9 How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones against the rock.

            It says it isn’t even slightly wrong for Jews until 40 days after birth.

            You want to go by that standard?

          • Anne Green

            Jael2, the Bible says no such thing about murderers. And you are not to judge Stephanie or her heart. Mind your own sinfulness.

        • plains-rabbit

          Anyone with a conscience would feel guilt.

          • Stephanie_Bell

            C’est la vie

      • Godless Heathen

        Horseshit. Back up your claims.

      • G_Kaven

        Oh? So there are no more children to be adopted? You’ve all done enough so now you get to dictate morality and lifelong actions to all. How grand of you. Banning abortion will not end abortion, it will however end safe abortion. If you truly believe in the sanctity of life, how about the young women that will die by the thousands that are forced to terminate their pregnancies on their own if you get your way.

        • Cady555

          Their lives don’t matter. They’ve already been born. Only unborn life matters.

          Look at the evidence. Look at the platform of the political party they vote for.

      • gizmo23

        So why are there kids in foster homes?
        Pro lifers don’t give a hoot about anything but power to control other people

      • Georgie Franklin

        Making up your own facts as you go along…

      • DominoPancakes

        As opposed to the mental, physical, and emotional pain the mother might feel by carrying a foetus to term, then having it adopted by a child rape endorsing ‘good christian family’.

      • DontPanic

        MORE than enough? LOL Try again. No where near enough if that’s going to be your solution.

        >I don’t see any of you pro-aborts out there trying to help those girls find reasonable help!

        You have to be kidding. Most “pro-aborts” are 100% behind expanded healthcare of poor, single-parent households. Expanded safety nets for these children and families for feeding, clothing, and educating the most vulnerable of our citizens BECAUSE there isn’t enough private help available. Most “pro-aborts” identify unplanned pregnancy as one of the leading causes of poverty and actively work towards stemming the tide rather than pushing for failed policies like abstinence-only education and praying that people just wont have sex. _Especially_ teens and poor people. Just look at teen pregnancy rates from these areas.

      • Jim Jones

        > more than enough Christian families have adopted unwanted babies

        “More than 250,000 children in the U.S. enter the foster care system every year. … Today there are 108,000 children in foster care waiting to be adopted.”

        About 70 million people in the US attend church regularly. If one Christian in 650 adopted a child there would be none waiting. That’s less than 1 in 100 Christian families.

      • Private Joker

        You do a good job of pulling statistics out of your ass. You never cite your sources.

    • Cady555

      They plan to shame single mothers, cut funding for education, cut food stamps, just like they always have.

  • Skydog1

    I pray that this is the beginning of the end to this holocaust.

    • Carcosa

      roe v wade is still in effect, if you oppose abortion then don’t have one and say out of other people choices

      • Dr_Grabowski

        And if Dred Scott v. Sandford was still in effect, would you say “if you oppose slaveowning don’t buy one and stay out of other people’s choices?”

        • Carcosa

          and your point?

          • Dr_Grabowski

            My point is that sometimes “other peoples’ choices” are not private matters, sometimes there are real victims. If my neighbor wants to kill his grandmother for money, this is a public matter, because she is a human being who has a right to life. In an abortion, a living, breathing human being is deliberately killed, this is not a case of someone illegally growing hemp in their own back yard

          • Carcosa

            a fetus is nothing, it’s not a person and it’s not a victim and what women choose to do with it is not your concern

          • Dr_Grabowski

            If you are post-abortive yourself, I have nothing but sympathy for you. You were lied to, by the abortionist(s) of course, but also by almost our entire secular society, civilization, lied to about who we are, where we came from, what the nature of the Good is, who and what we should live for.
            But as long as you are putting up statements, arguments, propositions, I do think I have some duty to faithfully represent the pro-life position(s) on these, as I understand them.
            So ~
            If a fetus is “nothing” then it should not be difficult for you to construct one.
            All you need is a human brain with measurable brainwaves, a beating heart, a couple lungs, some arms and legs, miles and miles of capillaries and intestines, and little inconsequential items like a working liver, stomach, pancreas, along with eyes, nose, etc etc
            To say of any human being that it is not a person, well, that’s been tried, in fact your statement could have been used almost verbatim in Germany in the 1930s with the substitution of the word “Jew” for “fetus”
            ALL innocent human beings have a right to not be deliberately killed. So it’s entirely appropriate that laws reflect this, and governments so act to secure this and other rights

          • Carcosa

            a fetus can be constructed in a petri dish, it is nothing

          • Dr_Grabowski

            Perhaps you are unaware of the astonishing complexity of DNA, of even one living, functioning cell, of a growing embryo……

            “…Following gastrulation, the ectoderm gives rise to epithelial and neural tissue, and the gastrula is now referred to as the neurula. The neural plate that has formed as a thickened plate from the ectoderm, continues to broaden and its ends start to fold upwards as neural folds. Neurulation refers to this folding process whereby the neural plate is transformed into the neural tube, and this takes place during the fourth week. They fold, along a shallow neural groove which has formed as a dividing median line in the neural plate. This deepens as the folds continue to gain height when they will meet and close together. The cells that migrate through the most cranial part of the primitive line form the paraxial mesoderm, which will give rise to the somitomeres that in the process of somitogenesis will differentiate into somites that will form the sclerotome, the syndetome, the myotome and the dermatome to form cartilage and bone, tendons, dermis (skin), and muscle. The intermediate mesoderm gives rise to the urogenital tract and consists of cells that migrate from the middle region of the primitive line. Other cells migrate through the caudal part of the primitive line and form the lateral mesoderm, and those cells migrating by the most caudal part contribute to the extraembryonic mesoderm…”

          • Carcosa

            blah blah blah. a fetus can be constructed in a petri dish, it is nothing

          • Dr_Grabowski

            What? You can do this? Are you going to pour a jar of amino acids over some sawdust and orange juice, apply an electrical charge, what?

          • Carcosa

            you;re free to look it up yourself since this dump doesn’t allow links

          • Dr_Grabowski

            Are you perhaps referring to in vitro fertilization, fusing an already existing sperm and ovum in a lab?
            Such things are done, but that is not constructing a fetus, and neither the sperm nor ovum are “nothing”, and neither is the new and distinct living, growing human being so conceived a “nothing” any more than you are

          • Carcosa

            no I’m referring to embryos and fetuses grown in petri dishes

          • Dr_Grabowski

            These are not grown from “nothing” but from a sperm and an egg

          • Anne Green

            I would have a hard time saying a zygote is a human being. Zygotes can be frozen for ten years or longer and then “thawed” for implanting into a woman later. How does that make it human?

          • Dr_Grabowski

            Hey, there!

            There is no need to “make it human” because the beings in question are in fact already human.

            So your sentence can be reworded thusly:

            “Human beings at certain stages of development can be frozen for ten years or longer and then “thawed” for implanting into a woman later.”

            And indeed, frozen embryos are offered for adoption.

            But these are not cats or hamsters at the embryonic stage, these are humans. From one website:

            “Just as each snowflake is frozen, unique and a gift from heaven, so are each of our Snowflake Babies. We hope to help each donated embryo grow, develop and live a full life…Over 450 babies have been born to their adoptive parents through successful Snowflakes placements…There are now well over 600,000 embryos in frozen storage in the United States. Will you choose to donate? Will you choose to adopt?”

          • Carcosa

            was that word salad suppsoe to mean something? and no a fetus does not have rights, only the born have rights

        • Carcosa

          what gives you the right interfere with the reproductive choices of others?

          • Dr_Grabowski

            I’d say that neither I nor the Chinese government have some right to prevent people from reproducing. But I believe that innocent human beings have a right to life. More precisely, a right to not be deliberately killed by other human beings

          • Carcosa

            a fetus has no rights, only the born have rights

        • zenlike

          Because a slave was a full-grown human being. Just like those women you would force to carry to term their rapist’s babies.

          • Dr_Grabowski

            So in your view, human beings do not have a right to life simply because of who they are, human beings, they grow into this, and only attain the right to life once they are full grown, say at age 18 or so? I wish we could make rape go away, but killing an innocent baby will not accomplish this

          • zenlike

            A fetus is not a baby. And no a fetus’ rights do not trump the right of a full grown woman.

          • Dr_Grabowski

            You might want to Google up some fetal pictures by Lennart Nilsson before you decide that a fetus is not a baby. A fetus is a human being at a certain stage of development. When she is born, will you honor her right to life? Because premature infants are born–and–survive–at the same numbers of weeks gestation that abortion clinics regularly advertise for. So nurture and murder overlap in terms of fetal development.
            And a full-grown woman has no right to have an innocent human being killed

          • zenlike

            After she is born? Yes. Pretty clear line, isn’t it? And no, a fetus is still not a baby, you fail at even basic biology. I am beginning to become suspicious of your self-user ‘dr’ title.

          • Dr_Grabowski

            No, if you’ll stand up for the right to life of a born infant who is but 25 weeks old, but tell me it’s perfectly OK to shred another who’s 39 weeks old but still in the womb, then yours is an entirely arbitrary line as far as determining WHO the fetus ultimately in essence IS, what kind of Being they are, what rights they are to be accorded.

            fetus (n.) late 14c., “the young while in the womb or egg” (tending to mean vaguely the embryo in the later stage of development), from Latin fetus (often, incorrectly, foetus) “the bearing or hatching of young, a bringing forth,” from Latin base *fe- “to generate, bear,” also “to suck, suckle” (see fecund).

            fe·tus ˈfēdəs/

            noun: fetus; plural noun: fetuses; noun: foetus; plural noun: foetuses

            an unborn offspring of a mammal, in particular an unborn human baby more than eight weeks after conception.

            synonyms:embryo, unborn baby/child

            “an ultrasonic photo of the fetus”

            Origin

            late Middle English: from Latin, ‘pregnancy, childbirth, offspring.’

          • zenlike

            Ah dictionary definitons. How impressive. Please stop using the title of ‘dr’, since you clearly don’t know anything about science.

          • Dr_Grabowski

            If you don’t like the dictionary definitions, and want to draw a line in the sand such that you will always refer a 25-week-old born human being as a ‘baby’ and a 39-week-old one still in the womb as a ‘fetus’ that is fine. But then of course the difference in terms refers solely to their differing respective locations, not to any difference in who they are, human beings.

          • Dr_Grabowski

            If you do not like the dictionary definitions and want to draw a line in the sand such that you will always refer to a born 25-week-old human being as a baby and a 39-week-old human being still in the womb as a fetus that is fine. But their differing respective locations does not mean they are different in who they are in essence, human beings.

          • zenlike

            Even in bachelor degrees your paper will get thrown out if you use dictionary definitons. My guess is you are either lying about being a dr, or have a fake degree like theology.

          • Dr_Grabowski

            You’re allowing yourself to be blinded to the reality of what abortion is and does by terms that refer only to the current location of a human being, instead of who or what they are in essence. You can call me a fetus, call me a taco if you like so long as you do not threaten my life

          • zenlike

            Well, I don’t believe in that “essense” because I am not a religious drone like you. You are misrepresenting yourself by using the ‘dr’ moniker. I can call that blatant dishonesty, but I expect nothing more from forced birthers like you.

          • Dr_Grabowski

            You could perhaps lighten up just a bit, there is a whole long colorful tradition of noms de plume, not least here on the internet.
            And I do think you believe in the ‘essence’ I speak of. The ‘fetus’ immediately before birth, the ‘baby’ during and afterward–these are not different entities, they are identical, the same, the same in terms of who and what they are.
            And your moralizing betrays the fact that you too are, in fact a ‘religious drone’ or at least hold metaphysical beliefs, at least insofar as you base your views on things that cannot be measured with the tools of science, like right and wrong, which depend for their existence on a theistic, or at least Deistic framework for their existence.
            (Otherwise, what could be “wrong” with “dishonesty”, blatant or otherwise, how could “dishonesty” be “bad”, what could that even mean in the secularists’ meaningless universe of random swirling particles?

          • zenlike

            Ah the whole “there is no morality without god” bullshit. You are an idiot as well as a dishonest douche.

          • Dr_Grabowski

            You seem to be implying here that it’s wrong to be dishonest. In fact I agree, because I believe “wrong” has a meaning, it corresponds to something real, to the possibility of a real right.
            But what, on the basis of atheism could the idea of a true moral wrong or right correspond to, what does it get traction on?
            For example, one Pakistani sent their daughter to school. Another Pakistani shot her in the head to prevent this.
            We can thus observe two human preferences lived out in the real world. But if these preferences are not on the same plane as one man preferring pistachio ice cream and another butter pecan, we must be able to provide some basis, some reason or reason why this is so.
            What are atheism’s reasons?
            I’m NOT saying that atheist individuals don’t or can’t morally outperform believers, or people who say they are; indeed, many atheists seem to live moral lives, as measured by Judeo-Christian standards. I’m only saying that atheism itself contains no such moral standards, nor can it; there is nothing in a morally silent universe to measure individual, group, societal, national or international moral performance against.
            And on the basis of strict secularism, we also find no basis for human rights. Since they are metaphysical rather than physical, cannot be seen or measured, (How much do they weigh? What color are they?) in a consistently atheist framework, logically belief in human rights must be just as superstitious as belief in the “sky-god”.
            The American Founders could believe in real human rights, could believe these were “unalienable” (that is, they can be violated, but never revoked) because they were not mere verbal or legal grants from other humans but were real things “endowed by their Creator”.

          • zenlike

            Same bullshit, more verbosely spewed forth by someone who has no grasp of ethics. Yawn.

          • Dr_Grabowski

            My theses may in fact be feces; however you’ve yet to make that case.

          • zenlike

            You have no thesis, only assertions. The assertion that there is a god. The assertion that you need this god to have moral underpinnings. The assertion that having this god with a certain morality implies the outcome you describe.

          • Dr_Grabowski

            Again, it’s not that I’m saying that personal belief in a god or gods is necessarily needed to attain some level of personal morality (the Judeo-Christian belief is that people are made in the Image of God and so bear His stamp upon their souls, have conscience, etc, and sometimes the benefit of living in cultures influenced by Judeo-Christian ideas and ideals, or other helpful ethical influences), nor am I saying that there are not people who seem outwardly highly religious who commit grave wrongs, indeed this category, along with some specific examples are already condemned in the Bible.

            What I’m saying (do you doubt it?) is that if we’re not merely talking about social mores, that is the customs, the socially approved and disapproved behaviors that vary from culture to culture, but rather actual morality, a real right and wrong over and above any and all particular individuals, cultures, nations, etc, the idea of morality presupposes a standard or standards.

            And yes, here I’m asserting that such a standard can be found nowhere in an atheist understanding. If you think it can, or obviously can, please tell me where to look?

            I already looked in the Sam Harris book, The Moral Landscape. But the core philosophical weakness of this work is that Harris can’t satisfactorily tell us how, why or in what sense it can be said to be wrong to “riot, burn embassies, and seek to kill peaceful people, over cartoons” on the basis of his atheism.

            Harris opens his book by giving us two examples of contemporary humanity. One is a successful professional, with friends, family and travel. The other, as I recall, is being chased for her life through some hot oppressive jungle. Laying out the foundations of his system, giving us his definitions, Sam wants us merely to accept that it’s better to be the person in the first situation, which no serious theist is going to question, all things being equal.

            Got it. It seems, though, that he is using “better” to mean “better off”.

            To nail down “better” better, another scenario could be outlined, accepting the same examples Harris offers, what if we, for reasons of our own, deliberately take person A and drop them off in a Boko Haram encampment, thus instantly giving them the life and lifestyle of person B.

            Would that be a wrong thing to do ?

            What would, what could wrong mean without a cosmic standard of rightness to compare it to ?

    • Godless Heathen

      I hope that you grow a brain and pull your head out of your ass.

    • Joe Saxon

      I pray that God will keep abortion legal another 43 years.

      • jael2

        Just like Dred Scott, eh?
        Abortion is just a “convenience” for those who want to live wickedly. The sexual revolution of the 1960’s has resulted in the genocide of over 60 million little boys and girls. The whole mantra “my body, my choice” is nothing more than a license to sin. And with sin comes consequences. The death of innocent children, and the spiritual death of those who murder them. It’s a lose, lose, proposition.

        • zenlike

          Sin is an imaginary construct from your religion. Luckily, we don’t live in a theocracy where you can force your religion on others.

    • WorldGoneCrazy

      Amen, Skydog!

  • SuperTech86

    The regressives so want the 1700’s back.

  • Godless Heathen

    Waste of time and money. He should already know. Bible Thumpers want to turn US into a theocracy. I will fight you at every turn.

    • G_Kaven

      Yes!!

    • Rock Cervantes

      It’s not about Christianity. It’s about commonsense, but darkened minds are incapable of understanding anything that has anything to do with commonsense. It’s so simple. Even a small child can understand, that yanking a baby and puncturing the back of the head, with a suction to drain out the brain, before completely yanking out the dead baby from a womb, is wrong and sickening.

      • Godless Heathen

        No babies have been killed from an abortion. They are aborting fetuses. Terminology and context are important if you want to talk to people with an IQ that holds the bar of epistemology a little higher than an antiquated book of fairy tales. Darkened minds my ass. Go pop an anatomy book and see what that says about “darkend minds, souls” or other mythological body parts.You might want to see a doctor about your anal cranial inversion issue. Thanks. Oh never mind. Just keep praying space daddy will pull your head out of your anus.

        • origwwotp

          you are playing semantics with a human life? sick obviously, you’ve never been pregnant, otherwise known as making a BABY. not only is your ‘fetus’ a human life, but it is also responsive, therefore, alive and conscious. after birth, they respond just as they did in the womb. There is no magic ’embodiment’ of soul or spirit or intelligence in the birthing process, and since there are hundreds who were born at 24 weeks and living a fine life, your ‘fetus’ is a viable human being long before 9 months are up. do you drown unwanted puppies, too?

          • chronicintel

            I witnessed the birth of my child by my strong and courageous wife. She was fortunate to suffer relatively minor vaginal tearing that healed after two weeks.

            I could not imagine forcing a 10 to 12 year old rape victim to go through with childbirth which would likely cause more more physical damage and throw her life into turmoil that would last for decades.

            The people that introduce and support this bill think nothing of the mother, the process of birth, and life of the baby after its born. This is all just for show and pandering to the religious right who are detached from reality and have no sense empathy or rational morals.

          • jael2

            Suppose a young girl is raped and becomes pregnant? ( which accounts for less than 2% of pregnancies). Does an invasive traumatic “procedure” un-rape her? And why does organizations like Planned Parenthood protect the rapists, to commit the crimes over and over again? ( cash flow!)
            No, the most loving thing, is to first protect the girl from the rapist, and prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law, help her through the pregnancy, and provide the innocent baby a loving Christian home.
            One crime doesn’t justify another.

          • Mickey

            So it IS about Christianity. Thanks for clearing that up.

          • DominoPancakes

            Theist origwwwotp to the rescue: I have the power to point out how evil godless heathen is by ‘…playing semantics’ then in the next sentence (which I forgot to capitalise because I’m sooo smart) I can then infer a link between alive and conscious without any qualifying statements, or evidence (presumably mushrooms and yeast are copnscious because they’re alive???). I am granted this supreme ability to ignore my own bullshit and not practice what I preach because I believe in scary places after death as reported in a 2000 year old book of children’s fables, as revealed to sinful humanity by the magical sky fairy.

            Isn’t it odd that the only group claiming we have a problem with sin is the exact same group claiming they can remove it. Perhaps research the history of Listerine mouthwash for a comparable scenario.

          • origwwotp

            what mushrooms did you eat? you make absolutely no sense. lack of capitalization is my way of expressing my utter boredom with the keyboard. really, press one and then another to capitalize. so I’m lazy until I’m forced by the utter silliness of seeing the pronoun I in lower case. case in point, I’m against the government having anything to do with social issues such as this one. this one is between a woman and her partner, if she so chooses. I feel that the morning after pill should be OTC, covered by insurance, and available as commonly as a condom, making the surgical abortion extremely rare, and should be available and safe for the mother. so don’t you feel silly over getting all frothy at the mouth?

      • DominoPancakes

        Christians support and defend child rapists… Is that inaccurate?

        Well I’m sorry, I thought we were just throwing about unqualified, generalised, sensationalist terms and using whichever nomenclature makes our opponent sound most evil.

        How pathetic and typical of American bible belt theists.

      • Jim Jones

        An extremely rare procedure, used AFAIK exclusively when the fetus died from natural causes.

        If you want to watch something worse, watch an operation where a man’s genitals are reconstructed to make him female.

        You’ll run away holding yours and screaming like a little girl.

  • WorldGoneCrazy

    “It’s legal, I have the right to choose, it should be allowed for economic reasons, they aren’t persons, it’s better for them too, who are you to force your religion on me?” Is this a 21st century Democrat defender of the “right” to abort or a 19th century Democrat defender of the “right” to own black people? Answer: Both.

  • WorldGoneCrazy

    I wonder what it would take – with all of the information out there – videos and pictures and descriptions by abortionists, testimony, etc – for a pro-abort to convert to pro-life at this point? Basic science and logic did it for me, long before the internet became public and while I was still an atheist. But, with all of the visuals, with the womb with a view (ultrasound), a person has to be really beyond a moral monster to remain on the side of abortion “rights.” Either that, or he must be willfully ignorant and unbelievably selfish to place his sex without consequences ahead of the life of an innocent human being with intrinsic moral value.

    • jael2

      World Gone Crazy,
      The hardcore pro-abortion advocates believe babies are a clump of cells until these “cells’ come through the birth canal, then mysteriously they morph into a baby.
      Unless the Lord saves them they remain blinded.

      • WorldGoneCrazy

        Haha – yes! I think that is what is referred to as the Magic Vagina Theory. Who knew that pro-aborts were such raving supernaturalists?!? And THEY accuse US of being superstitious! 🙂

        You are right about being blinded. There, but for the Grace of God, go I.

    • Kateye70

      Or, they can be just as “moral” as you profess yourself to be, and come to a different conclusion.

      Basic science taught me that “logic” is not always the best rule to apply to difficult life choices. It also taught me not to be a judgmental asshole.

      • WorldGoneCrazy

        “and come to a different conclusion.”

        Some people were for owning black people, some people were against it. I guess they “came to a different conclusion,” based on your “logic?”

        “difficult life choices”

        = “killing an innocent human being”

        “It also taught me not to be a judgmental asshole.”

        Isn’t THAT a judgment? Self-refuting hypocrite, much?

  • WorldGoneCrazy

    The argument against abortion is a moral and scientific one:

    1. Human beings have intrinsic moral value. (basic morality)

    2. What is located in the human womb, post-conception, is a human being. (settled science)

    3. Therefore, abortion kills a human being with intrinsic moral value – one who is guilty of no crime.

    The only difference between a human being in the womb and one outside of it is size, level of development, environment, and degree of dependency. And each one of those factors, if used to argue for abortion, could be also used as a reason for killing a child OUTSIDE of the womb. In abortion clinics all across America today, nearly 3000 human beings with intrinsic moral value – guilty of no crime but their mere existence – are being led to their deaths, and gruesome ones at that. Can’t we all come together and bring our laws up to date with 21st century science and basic human compassion?

    • Cady555

      “2. What is located in the human womb, post-conception, is a human being. (settled science)”

      No this is not settled.

      “The only difference between a human being in the womb and one outside of it is size, level of development, environment, and degree of dependency.”

      • aliceblue

        Hey, be careful. If this is Cruz’s sock account, he could answer yes to all 3 of your questions.

      • no more mr. nice guy

        So why not kill anyone at anytime with that anything goes logic. It wouldn’t be hard to justify via: abortion; euthanasia; infanticide; geriatricide; assisted suicide etc. so long as such things don’t include you. You would have made a good Nazi who saw the Jews as less than human.

        • Cady555

          Fail on several points.

          Defining human life as beginning at moment of conception is what is dangerous. It turns a conscious human being with family, friends and responsibilities into a uterus with feet. It is what allows callous christians to allow a woman to die during miscarriage.

          And unlike anti-abortionists who don wigs and slip into abortion clinics, telling themselves they really need an abortion unlike those other women, I only have one set of standards. If I had not been born I would not exist. It would make no difference if I didn’t exist because my parents never met, or because that exact sperny didn’t arrive first, or because my mother couldn’t care fir

          • Dr_Grabowski

            Virtually all pro-lifers allow abortion to save the life of the mother, although many add that if possible some attempt be made to save the life of the baby also.
            Do you think that laws designed to secure the right to life of born humans are also arbitrary rules?

          • Cady555

            No, medical textbooks do not say human life begins at conception. It isn’t a person yet. There is no such thing as a soul.

            In theory, lip service is payed to protecting the mother’s health. In practice, women often die in catholic hospitals that refuse to provide proper medical care during a miscarriage. One case in Ireland received the most press. The miscarriage took 5 days, at the end of which the woman died. Prompt and proper medical care would have saved her life. This also happens in the US.

            We all agree that a child that is born, breathing and can survive apart from the mother is a person. We may reach that conclusion by different paths, but that’s okay. There is no need to debate it.

            Your moral opinions say that a fetus that cannot survive apart from the mother is a person and the mother must sacrifice her autonomy to care for that fetus.

            My moral opinions say that the needs of the woman – a living, breathing person – trump the needs of a non viable fetus and she has no obligation to sacrifice her health or wellbeing for a person that does not yet exist.

            It is okay that we disagree. It is not okay that you attempt to force your moral opinions on others through force of law.

          • Dr_Grabowski

            A human life distinct from that of her parents, with its own DNA, blood type, etc certainly does begin at conception. That is what conception is.
            Whether human beings are granted the legal title of “person” is an ideological/political decision, not a scientific or medical one.

            Sadly we do not all agree that a born child able to breathe and survive outside the womb is a person deserving of legal protection. The current President of the United States, as a U.S. Senator, voted four times against a law to protect newly born infants who’d just survived an attempted abortion. A famous, or rather infamous “ethicist” at Princeton is actually paid to teach that parents should have six months to decide whether or not to kill their own offspring.

            Indeed, individuals, groups and governments have historically yanked the “person” status away from born children, from adults who were of the “wrong” race, tribe, religion, etc. So that you happen decline to honor our yet-to-be-born brothers and sisters as persons doesn’t establish that they are not properly to be regarded as such.

            And the ensoulment question is irrelevant. Sam’s disbelief in the existence of souls does not give him a right to take the life of Sally, whether she has a soul or not..

            Not only premature infants, but healthy, normal born children will die without proper care. Therefore they have no right to that care, no right to continue living?

            I would add that securing the right to life of adults, your right and mine, depends upon forcing moral opinions on others through the force of law

          • Carcosa

            you aren’t pro-life you are anti-choice

          • Dr_Grabowski

            Right, as I was just saying to Cady, my right to life, her right to life, depends on the law being anti-choice: those who would choose to kill others are not allowed to do so. The laws against maiming and killing are therefore pro-life

          • Carcosa

            you aren’t pro-life you are anti-choice

      • Matthew Davis

        Degree of dependency? Pretty sure a baby is 100% dependent all the way until they can have solid food. That’s what they call a conservative estimate. In reality, people are wholly dependent until they stop voting Democrat.

        • Cady555

          “Degree of dependency” was a quote. The phrase was used by WGC. Hence the quote marks.

          • Matthew Davis

            Doesn’t change the idea that “degree of dependency” can’t really describe the difference between unborn and newborn children.

    • Jim Jones

      What will you do when humans build zygote spinners?

      • aliceblue

        A carnival ride for zygotes?

    • zenlike

      And yet you give not a single piece of evidence of 1, 2 or 3.

  • zee

    It stands a better chance if it reads “from the moment the heart is formed…” Science can prove that there is life when there is a heartbeat; but the belief that life begins at conception is a spiritual belief. It would be nice if they accept that, but I don’t think they will, so the bill should seek to outlaw abortion once the heart is formed; because a person’s heart beating is proof they are alive and if you intentionally stop their heart from beating so that person is no longer alive –that is murder.

    • Cady555

      The “heart beat” is just tissue with an electric current. There is nothing that looks like a heart at that point.

    • James Yakura

      Nice to know that you’re a vegetarian. After all, you don’t want to kill anything with a heartbeat, right?

      • zee

        James Yakura: Firstly, comparing babies to meat is just weird and creepy. Secondly, since you inquired, I do happen to be a vegetarian.

    • Anne Green

      Actually, science has created beating hearts from 3D printing. I wouldn’t quite call them a human, nor alive.

      • Jim Jones

        They’ve also been able to print DNA.

    • ParkerDW

      Even when the heart first starts beating, it is debatable if that even qualifies as life yet. There is no consciousness, ability to survive on its own, or any ability to feel pain or emotion.
      I’d say it’s far less alive than most farm animals, and we murder them without restraint. I have a hard time seeing abortions during early pregnancy as a moral issue.

  • Erica D. Scott

    Ladies and Gentlemen, if God felt that Abortion is murder please explain this passage in the bible for the book of Numbers Chapter 5 vs. 11- 31. God gives you instructions on how to abort a fetus from a woman, if she is thought to be cheating on her husband.

    11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah[a] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.

    16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

    “‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”

    23 “‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial[c] offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.

    29 “‘This, then, is the law of jealousy when a woman goes astray and makes herself impure while married to her husband, 30 or when feelings of jealousy come over a man because he suspects his wife. The priest is to have her stand before the Lord and is to apply this entire law to her. 31 The husband will be innocent of any wrongdoing, but the woman will bear the consequences of her sin.’”

    • http://www.bing.com/ Martin Smit

      Hey Erica, you seem to believe this passage is about abortion, rather than adultery and infertility but you haven’t taken the trouble to explain why this is. If you are really seeking an explanation of the text, you can find a number of competent Bible commentaries on line (e.g. Matthew Henry, Numbers 5).

      • Cady555

        This passage, giving instructions for inducing abortion, is the only mention of abortion in the bible.

        The bible never prohibits abortion.

        • http://www.bing.com/ Martin Smit

          So you say Moses offers the recipe Dust + water = abortion, but that’s not what the text says: it speaks for itself. If you want to speak against it, you need to be a little more clear.

    • Becky

      First, “thigh rot” does not mean “womb miscarry”, at all. Compare that word used in other verses. At the very least, look it up in a hebrew concordance. Second, the jealous husband didn’t say a word about a pregnant wife. He’s suspicious of his wife committing adultery and not that she’s pregnant by another man.

      • Cady555

        “21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell.”

        Yes, the passage is about causing a pregnant woman to miscarry.

        • origwwotp

          Beside the point. Christians follow Jesus, not the old testament. It is only contained as a historical reference. A common misbelief, though, since a lot of ‘churches’ ignore this fact. Sure gives the unbelievers plenty of fodder to mock.

          • Anne Green

            And as Christians, we are commanded to love one another. And to judge not, lest ye be judged. Less condemnation and more compassion. Take the time to find out why women have abortions and then help them find a better way to go. Whether that be education, mentoring, school sports, birth control, better opportunities. But condemning of the women to prison? Really? Only if you’re going to send the fathers, too. And then you’re going to need a VERY big prison and a FAT pocketbook to pay for that.

          • origwwotp

            hhmm my neutrality isn’t very overt, but, I was just pointing out a fact. my stance on abortion is: a government has no business in this private decision, if they are that powerful, I’m against it. In this day and age, the morning after pill is more likely than surgery abortions. Should be covered by insurance, OTC, and available everywhere, just like viagra and condoms.

          • Mickey

            So this applies to Jews.

      • Guest

        actually it did, and the Talmud, the rabbi’s discussions about the Torah even gives more explicit instructions on how to do a proper late term abortion, with the caveat that once a breath has been drawn all such efforts must stop. That we mistranslate the body euphemisms of ancient times in sometimes silly ways doesn’t change their meaning at the time.

        The Judeo-Christian understanding is that, just like Adam and Eve, personhood comes with the ‘breath’. That was the understanding before the resurrection, and even the early Catholic church talked about the development of the ‘soul’ and when it was too late to terminate a pregnancy.

        God knew us before we were conceived, He knows which fetus aren’t going to make it to the breath. No ensouled beings are killed via miscarriages or abortions.

        The issue is right to privacy. It doesn’t matter if your Uncle George needs a transfusion of your blood to survive or not – you don’t have to give it if you don’t want to. Same with use of the womb.

        Is it sad when such a decision is made, either one? Yes. Should we all be doing all we can to make sure that all conceived children are wanted children? Yes. Should we even make it as easy as possible for a woman to carry the child to term and put it up for adoption? Yes.

        But require to carry a child she doesn’t want to carry? No. And whatever sin might come from that, it isn’t murder.

  • Iva Barnett

    I agree with this bill, however, I do not see it going the distance. We live in a self-absorbed and self-serving society. The number one motive to why individuals in the world’s systems is “because I want to” and “I should be allowed to”. Right and wrong and a conscious doesn’t carry much weight or hardly exist anymore in the generalized public. Only person preferences matter. Which is seriously disturbing! But the truth can’t be ignored. This subject is close to my heart. I have lost 4 babies to miscarriages and one still born. My best friend aborted two children during same time frame. And what was worse, it was a botched abortion and she had to get a full hysterectomy bc of it at 19 yrs old. I’m healed, however, she never did. She died from a heroin overdose two years ago. Her last crying session to me was she never healed from aborting. I have many friends you have and only one found it to be comforting. Personally, it is murder. Murder is the worse way too…..all for the sake of running away from responsibility. Pro choice isn’t about women’s rights. It’s about hanging onto escape goats and false securities. And I know about the “rape” babies. But only 2% are results of that. Beside, I know two women who have actually kept and raised their “rape” babies. They never hesitated. Abortion shouldn’t be taken so lightly and bc it has and we are a desensitized society over it. Yes, it should be a law, with real consequences to it. If you truly cared about women’s rights…..then how about caring if they chose right or chose easy?

    • Cady555

      And so,.given this, you would create an environment that ensures all abortions are unsafe back alley abortions. Abortions performed by medical professionals have close to no complications.

      • Josey

        Am so tired of hearing the “back alley abortion” excuse to continue to murder babies.

        • Cady555

          I’m tired of hearing self righteous Christians call non viable fetuses “babies” as an excuse to interfere in the personal medical decisions of others.

          The fact that someone is callous about the consequences this interference only makes that person heartless, hypocritical and clearly uninterested in valuing human life.

          • StanW

            You should not use medical terms when you are clearly ignorant of their meaning.

        • Kateye70

          Interestingly enough, the demographic with the highest per capita abortion rate are evangelical Christians, for whom “the only moral abortion” is their abortion. And because they’re victims of abstinence-only contraception education, they’re an at-risk demographic.

          Back alley abortions are not a joke. Nor are they a meme. They are the reality of outlawing a medical procedure.

          If you don’t want to have an abortion, for *whatever* reason, don’t have one. It’s as simple as that.

        • Maria Gomes

          Don’t tell me, let me guess – you’re one of those practitioners of Bronze Age superstitions. Come on, let’s hear a little of the ol’ speaking in tongues. It’s a real show stopper when combined with face paint and a chicken bone through the nose. Hooooweeee!! Thank you Jeebus!

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “Having for most of my life believed that our acceptance of equality–racial, class, gender–was the result of the overthrow of past superstitions and prejudice by reason, I was perplexed: why had the fight against slavery, and the concern for aboriginal peoples, been so overwhelmingly the province of religious? … Hume, Voltaire, and Kant saw the African–the non-European, generally–as beyond the category of human to which the European belonged; race concerned them (particularly Kant) only to the extent that it could show the superiority of the European. It was not the philosophies of Paris or Edinburgh or East Prussia who fought slavery, but the evangelical Christians and Quakers who drew their inspiration not from philosophy but from ‘superstitious religion’. It was from the Evangelical Revival that the loudest claims for what we now call racial equality came.” — non-Christian historian Robert Kenny

            You’re welcome. 🙂

          • Maria Gomes

            If you don’t believe in slavery then stop trying to enslave women.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Silly, Maria: telling women not to kill their babies is no more slavery than telling men not to rape women is slavery. If you don’t like laws against killing innocents, go join ISIS. In fact, Planned Murder in Da Hood is better at killing innocents than ISIS is, by far.

          • Maria Gomes

            You have no right to force a woman to keep something growing in her body that she doesn’t want.

            Fortunately, I live in Europe so I don’t have to worry about someone forcing me to continue a pregnancy.

            But I do feel sorry for those poor undereducated woman trapped in your misogynistic country.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “something?!?”

            My, how the selfish European women do like to de-humanize preborn babies. Not surprising.

          • Maria Gomes

            Actually, it’s just that we don’t allow men to treat us as chattel. America on the other hand is a more primitive society due to it’s religiosity – which itself stems from poor educational standards.

          • Jim Jones

            “Republican presidential candidate Carly Fiorina, a staunch opponent of abortion, made at least $83,000 serving on the board of directors of Merck & Co. at a time when the pharmaceutical company was producing vaccines using fetal stem cell lines derived from aborted fetuses, according to corporate documents reviewed by Al Jazeera America. The program “Inside Story” with Ray Suarez also obtained documents indicating that during Fiorina’s tenure on the board, anti-abortion groups had asked Merck to stop producing such vaccines, and that the company had refused…

            The Fiorina campaign did not respond to Al Jazeera’s requests for comment. Merck confirmed Fiorina’s tenure on the board, but said it does not retain the relevant compensation records from that time.”

        • WorldGoneCrazy

          So true, Josey: 90% of pre-Roe abortions were done in doctor’s offices, and the back alley statistics were made up by the abortionist Bernard Nathanson who later admitted it and converted to pro-life.

      • jael2

        Google: Jennifer Morbelli.

        • Jim Jones

          Google: Savita Halappanavar

  • liekasambodi

    Wow, you people really are insane.

  • FreedomFund2016

    the only time I ever want to be in OK is from 30000 feet above it.

  • Bodhisattva Wade

    Life does indeed begin when egg and sperm combine, of this there is no debate. However, this is not the issue at hand. What we are discussing is bodily autonomy; do you have the right to your own body? The answer to this is that abortion is a civil right. No entity, be it governmental or religious, should have control over your body. Until a fetus is born, it is entirely a part of the mother. The mother has the final say as to whether to give birth to the child. The fetus may be unhealthy, disfigured, or stillborn. The fetus may be healthy, but a result of sexual assault. The fetus may be healthy, but the mother has no want or means to care for it. It is an indisputable fact that since abortion was made legal by the supreme court, the rate of violent crime has plummeted. Everyone that supports this proposed law is ignorant. They are willing to support an unwanted infant only until it leaves the womb. After that, these same people have wiped their hands of any responsibility. Abortion is, and will always remain a civil right, not matter how much these religious fanatics are opposed. Those of us who are rightly established in morality and intelligence should remain intolerant to those who wish to impose their beliefs onto others.

  • James120756 .

    You people are nuttier than a fruitcake. No wonder religion is dying in the US. Your hypocritical nature is obvious to anyone with half a brain.

  • Maria Gomes

    Fortunately, I give up my US citizenship some time ago. However, I do feel sorry for the poor women who live there whose control over their reproductive health is continually jeopardized.

    • Reason0verhate

      Yeah, America is such a horrible place that there are NO women immigrating here. People are leaving the US in droves. In 5 years or less, no one will be left.

      • Maria Gomes

        Exactly. I wanted to beat the rush. If I had it to do all over again I would have made my exodus to Europe much, much sooner.

      • Anne Green

        The only women I see on the news coming here are the ones who are fleeing the tyranny of a fanatical religious regime who wishes to condemn her to a life of servitude with very little control over her future. Only to find more of the same. Sad.

        • Diaris

          Women should definitely be allowed to kill their children. Anything that inconveniences a woman should be killed. Women should have sex with all the men they want, then call that “having control over their own bodies.”

          • Anne Green

            If the child cannot live outside the woman’s womb, it is within her control to have the child or not. Period. Whether it is legal or not. You cannot control that. You can only determine whether it’s safe and legal.

          • Mickey

            Women should have sex with all the men or women they want. I’m sure you do as well. The number might be different for different people, but that’s not your call.

        • Rachelthemillenial

          You claim to be Christian?

          • Anne Green

            You claim to be human? Who are you to judge me?

          • 0pus35

            You seem OK with judging anyone who thinks differently from you.

            What’s that called? Oh yeah – hypocrisy.

  • Bill LaRue

    I live in Oklahoma, with the amount of meth addicted pregnancies, molestation and rape related pregnancy this would be catastrophic to the state. Also if the illiterate religious nut jobs in this state actually read their bibles instead of just thumping them they would see that the biblical god has no problem with abortion. Hebrew priest actually had abortion rights and don’t consider a child to be a living thing until it draws it’s first breath which is when the “spirit” moves into the body. This is what your god claims I’m just relaying the message look it up for yourself. If you think you know better than god maybe you need to switch religions.

  • samsplace5022

    By the same token, so is cutting your nails.

  • Dude1244

    This is the first and last time on this site, lots of targets of opportunity, but just not enough time. God luck on the crazy train.

    • Max

      Bye.

  • jjgrndisland

    One side favors life,
    one side favors death.

    Who would believe so many people could favor death? Morally and spiritually, this nation has sunk even lower than Nazi Germany.

    • WorldGoneCrazy

      Much lower.

    • Jim Jones

      In Nazi Germany, the penalties for abortion were increased again. In 1943, providing an abortion to an “Aryan” woman became a capital offense.

      • no more mr. nice guy

        Abortion was termed a CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY at Nuremberg.

        • Vicki Pelton Koenen

          But killing millions of already born Jews was ok…

          • no more mr. nice guy

            You misstated what was never said. We have already killed more babies in the USA since 1973 than all lives lost throughout the world during the entirety of WWII. Why was it that the American judiciary who led and governed at Nuremberg where Nazis were hung for the CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY called abortion.Then ONLY 26 years later [1973] the same American judiciary called the Supreme-less court ignored the Nuremberg precedent and determined the exact same CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY a right???

    • ParkerDW

      One side favors facist laws and unscientific ideas of what constitutes “life”.

      The other side says let people make their own choices and expand human freedoms.

      I can’t believe how you think wanting to impose your beliefs onto everyone is somehow not like Nazy Germany, and how expanding freedom for people to make their own choices is somehow immoral.

      I’d like to point out that a zygote/small fetus does not have a consciousness, does not feel or think, does not know it is alive and cannot continue to grow on its own outside the womb. It does not, by definition, constitute something that is alive. On the other hand, we slaughters billions of farm animals every year for food, and they are most certainly more alive than a zygote/small fetus.

      And then you claim to be morally superior? No, it’s called being ignorant and morally arrogant.

    • UnderTheHedgeWeGo

      Life began some three billion years ago, since then “life” is a cycle, it doesn’t “begin”. Both sperm and ovum are individual living entities every bit as “alive” as a zygote but you don’t come undone every month when a woman menstruates.

      • Anne Green

        I would also add that scientists have now used 3D technology to create a beating heart. The heart beats but it is neither “alive” as its own, independent organism nor is it a “human being”, therefore it has no rights.

        • Make a stand

          Do you work for an abortion clinic?

          • Anne Green

            No, why, does my opinion matter more now, somehow?

          • calduncan

            Doesn’t matter at all.

    • 0pus35

      One side lacks human hearts. Just read the responses to your post. Zero sympathy in these people, icewater in their veins.

      • aliceblue

        That would be the previable fetus, not only doen it not have a fully functioning heart but is also sans lungs and a brain.

      • http://politicscity.com giant slor

        Let’s see you acknowledge WHY women seek to have abortions and then propose some solutions that would encourage them to either go through with the pregnancy or prevent it in the first place. Show that you have the ability to understand these women’s situations.

        Then I’ll believe you people somehow have the high-ground on sympathy.

        • Make a stand

          Women have the capacity to create life when they have intercourse with a man. That fact is now being taught in sex ed classes at varying levels across the USA. Women who have sex with a man need to take responsibility for their actions. If they don’t want children but want to have sex tie their tube and problem fixed. Lives saved.

          • Robert Basamania-Eeten

            Problem is, Doctors wont perform such surgeries on women until “after they give birth”. You also seem to resolve the responsibility of the man, when you say “women need to take responsibility for their actions”.

            It also does not address the massive attack on birth control, contraception, and other ways to prevent pregnancies that the Right is doing.

            Also you have yet to address why women are expected to have less autonomy over their bodies then a corpse has…

          • Make a stand

            Wow, it’s a comment on a blog not a 30 page article going into detail and a thorough analysis of everything involved. And where are you getting the issue of women being treated as mindless “corpses”?

          • Robert Basamania-Eeten

            I said, why do you want women to have less autonomy over their body than a corpse has, not “women being treated like mindless corpses”. Also IT was the choice of my mother, I have no right, nor DOES ANYONE to tell any woman what they should and should not sacrifice.

          • Mickey

            MEN have the capacity to create life when they have intercourse with a WOMAN. MEN who have sex with a WOMAN need to take responsibility for their action. If they don’t want children but want to have sex get vasectomies and problem fixes. Lives prevented.

    • Mickey

      You’re talking about the death penalty right?

    • Joe Saxon

      Why do you lie?

  • LauraKY

    You do realize this is unconstitutional right?

    • Anne Green

      They don’t care. And not one person has shared their plan to hold the fathers of these children “responsible”, NOT ONE. It’s too easy to throw stones at the women, most of whom are in their 20’s, are women of color, and already have one child at home, statistically. It’s far easier to condemn them and show themselves to be pious.

      • jael2

        Simple plan, and it has worked for centuries:
        Remain pure and don’t engage in sexual activity until marriage.
        If women want to feel “empowered”, then they first must respect themselves and their bodies.
        If they want to continue to sleep around, then they will have nothing but heartache. ( not to mention a myriad of diseases)
        If a guy won’t wait, and neither will you, then both parties are irresponsible.

        • Cady555

          Many people who get abortions are married and have other children. They simply know that they do not have the financial or emotional resources to care for a child. But that doesn’t fit the “shame sexually active women” narrative.

          • Frank

            They they shouldn’t get pregnant.

          • Anne Green

            Accidents happen. But if you truly don’t want people who don’t have the resources to have a child, fund birth control.

          • Frank

            Yes and mature responsible adults take responsibility for their choices and not kill them off.

            Condoms are free almost everywhere.

        • Anne Green

          Purity and waiting works wonders, just ask Bristol Palin. Vilifying women for being sexual beings (married or not) serves no one. Education and compassion for others, married or not, poor or not, works wonders. Again, I ask: and how will you punish the fathers of these unborn children? Call them irresponsible? Yeah, that ought to do it.

        • zenlike

          Ah an actual honest forced birther who admits it is about slut-shaming those dirty, dirty women.

  • Dio Jones

    To not speak and act is to speak and act…

    Always be a light that is .shininginthedark.

    • WorldGoneCrazy

      Amen!

      “Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.” ― Dietrich Bonhoeffer

  • [email protected]

    Exodus 21:22 And if men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart, and yet no harm follow, he shall be surely fined, according as the woman’s husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

    A FINE.

  • Anne Green

    Not one person has shared their plan to hold the fathers of these children “responsible”, NOT ONE. It’s too easy to throw stones at the women, most of whom are in their 20’s, are women of color, and already have one child at home, statistically. It’s far easier to condemn them and show themselves to be good Christians.

    • Frank

      Fathers should be held responsible and also have an equal say in what happens to their unborn child.

  • Stu

    It always amazes me how idiots that have obviously never read the constitution and have no clue what it entails then try and use it as a rallying cry. This bill will never become law since it is unconstitutional. A better use of time would be to charge these politicians with treason.

  • SK

    suck dick oklahoma.

  • pelao

    The entire anti-abortion movement is based on religion. The idea that God does not approve of it and therefore is wrong.Taking away rights from women is fine since the Bible has plenty of passages where women are second class citizens and even a man’s property. Same with homosexuality. It is all about god. Interestingly war seems to be OK with this god. The problem is that humans have come up with thousands of gods throughout history and as we all know all of them have turned out to be just made up fantasies. The god of the Bible is just like the others: a fantasy, not real. Laws need to be passed based on facts and reality not on myths created to control people.

    • Anne Green

      I believe in God, but I don’t believe we should treat women as second-class citizens or deny women (or men) birth control or access to medical care, including the ability to terminate a pregnancy. And I especially don’t believe locking women up because they’ve had an abortion unless you’re going to lock up the fathers, too (good luck with that). Most “Christians” on this site pick and choose biblical references at their convenience and like to vilify others because it’s easy and it makes them feel pious. It takes WAY more guts to discover who has abortions (it’s not teen pregnancies, so much folks!), why they have them, and how to make a meaningful, positive change to prevent them. It takes compassion. And these people are fresh out.

      • pelao

        Why do you believe in God? there is no evidence of any god being real. Eventually all those gods are used to justify one form of oppression or another. If you believe in the god of the bible then by necessity you have to also believe in all the atrocities that he advocates for. And under that god women are second class citizens and the property of men. If you don’t then the bible is not the word of god and then the whole thing just falls apart. Just something to think about for all good people like you who for some reason or another still believe in God.

  • Monique Lynn

    From a strictly legal standpoint how can this possibly constitutional? Roe V Wade deemed abortion access a fundamental right of the Constitution by way of right to privacy via due process in the 14th amendment. This would appear to be in violation of that.

  • Plinda Joblonski

    Marriage of same sex couples is wrong because for thousands of years marriage has been one man and one woman…..

    For all time, a person became a person when they were born… we record their date, time and place of birth… we give them a name.

    Why is it ok to change when a person becomes a person, but not the definition of marriage?

    • Monique Lynn

      Best strawman argument I’ve seen in awhile. Well played. . . .

  • Max

    Some of these posts are bizarre. Obviously abortion would definitely fit the definition of “impose your will on others.” I guess people who have no morals also lose the ability for clear thought.

    • Anne Green

      Either add something to the discussion or go away. Insults do nothing to convince anyone of anything, except of your own ignorance.

      • Max

        ..

      • Max

        You don’t run this site, so buzz off.

    • Mickey

      And many, like the Senator, are men who need to STFU

  • ParkerDW

    Some simple facts: A zygote/small fetus does not have a consciousness, does not know it is alive, cannot feel pain or any sensations whatsoever, and yet people want to qualify this as a full, complete human life? Farm animals are more alive than a zygote or small fetus, and yet we murder them without restraint for food.
    I do not see abortion during early pregnancy as a moral issue. It should be legal and it should be accessible. All these people claiming to know what God wants are being arrogant. God does not care about a small fetus with no consciousness, but he certainly would care about how we are destroying this beautiful planet’s ecosystems with our selfishness and opulence. You want to focus on a serious issue? How about the fact that we are leaving behind a planet that will not be livable within the next 100 years. Think about how horribly and undeniably immoral that is.

    All of you so called Christians who are militantly trying to make early abortions illegal are by far the most immoral people I have met. So much cognitive dissonance, and constantly trying to shove unscientific and highly opinionated beliefs down everyone’s throats. Stop it. Expand freedoms, stop trying to reduce them.

    • Anne Green

      And for all our sakes, help in other ways. You can keep your beliefs and help others, too. But locking up women for choosing to terminate a pregnancy is archaic. What’s next, bring back stoning for adultery? That, too, was in the Old Testament. But we don’t do that anymore, either.

      • Jim Jones

        Ironically, none of these ‘warriors’ read Numbers 5:11-31. Because that’s the word of their god.

  • Jim Jones

    Until and unless these states pass legislation ensuring that every pregnant woman, without exception, will be provided with full prenatal maternity care, will have a hospital bill of zero and will get at least 2 years of follow up medical care for each child, they should be told to go screw themselves since they are utterly hypocritical. Many other, much smaller, countries do this and more. That’s because they actually care about their nations’ children, they don’t just lie about it to punish women.

    • ParkerDW

      Absolutely. All this talk about protecting “the innocent” while promoting wars across the world. If they are concerned over wasted human potential, they should be militantly advocating for more accessible university-level educations for everyone.

      And then how the “God wants this” and “God wants that” arguments are being thrown around in defence of anti-choice stances… I mean, it can’t get MORE arrogant than this.

    • SK

      What the … thinking good about children. What are you, some monster?

      😛

  • Bob

    Yay so now the poor women can have more kids and we can pay more in welfare than a one time abortion!

    • Jim Jones

      Welfare is dirt cheap. 20 years in prison for shoplifting will run about $1 million. That would cover a 1st rate 4 year college degree while living in a fancy hotel.

  • WonderWoman

    One more thing to make Oklahoma look ridiculous! How about all of those people fork out their own $$$ for the next 18 years to help pay for unwanted children… Bet they won’t help at all and then complain when a woman gets on welfare to help feed the kids!

  • gunboat

    America. The Middle East of the west. Making sure they put woman’s rights back in the stone age. First you start controlling their Uterus’s, then you start to cover their heads and when they still dare to show independent thought you can cover them from head to toe in cloth. American.. land of the free, well unless your a woman.
    bunch of stone age backward thinking fucktards.

  • UnderTheHedgeWeGo

    Right wing Christians behave as if life begins at conception and ends at birth.

  • Lee

    This is ridiculous. A women has a right to choose when she starts a family. If you don’t support abortion, don’t get one if you become pregnant. But to not make it available doesn’t mean it won’t happen. It will still happen but women will die bc they can’t access it safely. You have no right to tell a woman what to do with her body.

    • Max

      What she does with her body is her own business. Dismembering the body of her unborn child, which has its own brain, heart, and DNA, is another matter altogether. Pro-lifers have no wish to control women’s bodies, we want to stop them from butchering the bodies of their own children, that’s why we’re called “pro-life.”

      • Jalapeno

        That might work if the fetus didn’t actually need continual access to her body.

        • DanH

          When something is inconvenient, kill it.
          Nazi morality.

          • Jalapeno

            Not quite.

          • Carcosa

            a fetus is a part of a woman’s body and a wmans has the right to do whatever she wished with her own body.

  • Gunnar Thalweg

    It’s about time.

  • elisabeth

    Ok , well if it passes does it mean every woman in oklahoma who has had an abortion in the past will be convicted of murder? because last time i looked there is no statute of limitations on murder.

  • YourAtheistFriend

    Brb my pro choice wife is having a baby.

    • Brad F

      A baby what?

      • YourAtheistFriend

        Healthy baby boy. We shall raise him to respect the aspect of freedom. He shall have an open mind and be free of religious ties unless he chooses it himself.

    • Cady555

      Congrats

  • Elizabeth

    Another unconstitutional law that the state of Oklahoma will try to pass, using the taxpayers’ money to force religious beliefs on its citizens. This will be overruled by the courts without a doubt. Abortion is legal in the United States of American, and women have the right to have one whether Oklahoma likes it or not. Remember the ten commandments fiasco?

  • Sam Blass

    Great, over a billion in the hole next year and we’re going to spend money defending a law that has zero chance of standing up to a Constitutional challenge.

    • Cady555

      Your tax dollars at work. Of course it has little chance of passing. And if it does, it will cost Oklahoma taxpayers hundreds of thousands.

      You know that this is merely a ploy to secure votes in the next election, right? They just using government money rather than campaign funds. You also know that the wasteful pandering will continue as long as voters continue to reward this behavior.

      You choose.

  • Antodav

    Until Roe vs. Wade is overturned there is absolutely no way that a law like this will be able to stand up to a legal challenge. It would get struck down almost immediately after being passed. Some people just don’t understand how our judicial system works, I guess. Without a conservative majority on the Supreme Court there is simply no way to keep anti-abortion laws on the books anywhere.

    • Carcosa

      there is no until, you will never get Roe v Wade overturned.

  • Frank

    Meanwhile another several thousand innocent, vulnerable unborn children will be killed today for reasons of convenience and comfort.

  • sam atk

    Damn evil anti choice republican bastards have no other job than to attack abortion. They don’t focus in economy immigration or reducing unwanted pregnancies

  • Vicki Pelton Koenen

    Well if they do that, then they should add a bill to help children after they are born. A bill to raise wages enough that parents can afford to raise the children they have after they have defunded planned parenthood so people can’t get birth control cheap enough. A bill to aid families with dependant or disabled children that are born because of an unplanned pregnancy. But they won’t.

  • Peter Malleau

    Every one has an opinion. It is our right not to have an abortion or where does it end. Do it don’t do it’s your life.