Prominent Baptist Minister Says ‘Gay Marriage’ Is ‘Law of Land,’ Christians Need to Move on to Abortion

jeffress-compressedDALLAS, Texas — Like President-elect Donald Trump, a prominent Baptist minister in Texas who backed Trump’s campaign efforts says that despite his opposition, same-sex “marriage” is “settled law,” and Christians should move on to another issue, such as abortion.

Robert Jeffress, who leads First Baptist Church in Dallas, spoke last week with Good Morning Texas, which noted that Jeffress’ longstanding fight against the issue is now “water under the bridge.”

“This is not going to be re-litigated by the Supreme Court. That is the law of the land. I wish it were different, but it’s not different,” he said emphatically.

Jeffress outlined that he told Christians and others not to urge Trump to make the sanctity of marriage a part of his campaign.

“And actually I had to argue against some hard-right Catholics and evangelicals who wanted Mr. Trump to make that a campaign issue,'” he explained. “I said, ‘Guys, forget it. It’s over.'”

“We need to go on to other things, like protecting the unborn,” Jeffress said.

As previously reported, last month, Trump told CBS’ “60 Minutes” that he believes the issue of same-sex “marriage” has been “settled” by the U.S. Supreme Court and that he is “fine with that.”

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“Do you support marriage equality?” interviewer Leslie Stahl inquired.

“It’s irrelevant because it was already settled,” Trump replied. “It’s law. It was settled in the Supreme Court. I mean, it’s done.”

“So even if you appoint a judge that—,” Stahl interjected, alluding to the possibility of overturning Obergefell.

“It’s done,” Trump stated. “These cases have gone to the Supreme Court. They’ve been settled. And I’m fine with that.”

While Trump believes that same-sex nuptials are settled with the U.S. Supreme Court, he is conversely open to appointing justices that would overturn Roe v. Wade.

“[I]f it (Roe v. Wade) ever were overturned, it would go back to the states,” he said.

“Yeah, but then some women won’t be able to get an abortion?” Stahl asked.

“No, it’ll go back to the states,” Trump replied.

He said that if abortion then becomes illegal in one state, that “they’ll perhaps have to go to another state.”

“And that’s okay?” Stahl asked.

“Well, we’ll see what happens,” Trump stated. “It’s got a long way to go, just so you understand. That has a long, long way to go.”

During last week’s interview with Good Morning Texas, Jeffress was also questioned about past statements decrying Roman Catholicism, but said, “Look, I believe there are going to be millions of Catholics in heaven because they have trusted in Christ as their savior.”

He did, however, advise in regard to Islam that Christ said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

“Any false religion ultimately is a deception of Satan to try to keep people from the only way to Heaven, which is by faith in Jesus Christ,” Jeffress stated.


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  • OzarkMom

    Mr. Jeffress said, “same-sex ‘marriage’ is ‘settled law,’ and Christians should move on to another issue, such as abortion.” The last time I checked, apparently abortion was “settled law,” too, so what makes that different, Mr. Jeffress? We, as Christ followers, need to stand up and say that just because something has been made the law of the land, that doesn’t necessarily make it morally right and we need to fight for the morally right thing!

    • http://www.facebook.com/chuck.anziulewicz Chuck Anziulewicz

      Your ideas about “morality” aside, can you come up with any purely Constitutional justification for denying law-abiding, taxpaying Gay couples the same legal benefits and opportunities that Straight couples have always taken for granted? I didn’t think so. And anyway, I thought getting married was better than just shacking up together.

      • Amos Moses

        not one of them was ever denied marriage ……. and the benefits that go with it …… what they asked for and got was a separate designation …. and special rights ….. for a thing that is not a marriage …. but a lie …… and now they want the rest of the world to swallow the brown sandwich of their lie ……

        • johndoe

          Your lie is anothers legal marriage. Funny that….

          • Amos Moses

            a lie is still a lie…. funny that …..

          • johndoe

            Opinions vary

          • Amos Moses

            Yours dont…..

        • Liberal Elitist

          Prior to the U.S. Supreme Court’s historic decision in Obergefell last year, gay couples could not legally marry and have it recognized nationwide.

          • Oboehner

            It’s really a shame the U.S. Supreme Court cannot legislate.

          • Liberal Elitist

            You mean like when the U.S. Supreme Court in 1967 struck down as unconstitutional the remaining state bans against interracial opposite-sex marriage?

          • Amos Moses

            equating race and sodomy and depravity …………. not very smart ………. and intolerant and insulting …………..

          • Liberal Elitist

            Certain states had bans on behavior, not race.

          • Oboehner

            I mean like the U.S. Supreme Court cannot legislate.

          • Liberal Elitist

            Ah, so you don’t like their decision from 1967 either.

          • Oboehner

            I mean like the U.S. Supreme Court cannot legislate.

          • Amos Moses

            because it is not a marriage…. it is a lie ….

          • Liberal Elitist

            Nope, it’s just marriage.

          • Amos Moses

            a law cannot turn a lie into truth …….. so no ………..

          • Liberal Elitist

            No, but it can right a wrong, as happened with Obergefell.

          • Amos Moses

            there was no “wrong” ………… there was a lie that some wanted turned into truth ….. it is still a lie …………

          • Liberal Elitist

            Nope, just marriage equality.

          • Amos Moses

            nope…….. no such thing as a marriage between the SS persons ………. still a lie ………..

          • Liberal Elitist

            There is such a thing because there is such a thing. You’re hopelessly in denial.

          • Liberal Elitist

            Nope, just marriage equality.

          • Kevin Quillen

            Dred Scott decision was law too. wrong but still law. hint…hint.

          • Kevin Quillen

            killing babies is legal too. wrong but legal. hint….hint.

        • OhSoGood

          All citizens can now marry someone of the same sex? How, then, is it “special”?

          It doesn’t affect you at all. Why are you always so angry?

          • Amos Moses

            it is not marriage…. it is a lie ….

          • OhSoGood

            Aw, legal denial is so cute!

            But… it changes nothing.

          • Amos Moses

            laws are frequently wrong ….. as it is now…

          • OhSoGood

            Still no details on harm from gay marriage? Why Amos, I’m starting to believe you can’t list any.

          • Amos Moses

            to start with ….. it is a lie …. to base anything on a lie is destructive …… the degree of health problems that then translate to the rest of society are well known ….. homosexuals tend to die 30-40 years sooner than the rest of the population ….. this attitude that it is haelthy and normal corrupts children who will then die sooner ……….. and lawlessness ….. all you have to do is look at the election we are in the middle of and the angst of the people who cannot now deal with the truth of the defeat …. and they are all on the side of the losers who want homomarriage …..

          • OhSoGood

            Marriage doesn’t cause the health problems, being irresponsible does. The die early debunked myth? Oh, Amos… that’s pathetic (and still has nothing to do with marriage). It’s perfectly suited in law.

            So you don’t like gay people. Got it. But you can’t show any harmful effects of gay marriage making you a liar.

            Isn’t lying a sin?

          • Amos Moses

            “Marriage doesn’t cause the health problems,”

            right ….. and what homosexuals do is not marriage ….. and they will still have the same health issues ……. and so it is still a LIE …………. and they will die earlier due to it ….. lies do not change because you do not believe it to be a lie ……

          • Amos Moses

            “Marriage doesn’t cause the health problems, being irresponsible does.”

            what homosexuals do is not a marriage …… and it is still a lie ….. most homosexuals do not live past 65 …… the VAST majority ….. well over 95% ……. and it is their irresponsible behavior ……………. a lie is still a lie and a law does not change that one iota ………..

          • OhSoGood

            Ah, there’s that legal denial again! Oh, it’s SO cute!

            Your adherence to debunked lifespan studies is just funny.

            Still waiting on how gay marriage is harmful. If you can’t do it, just say so. There’s no shame in not being as smart as you claim to be.

          • Amos Moses

            so when it was “legal” to hold slaves …. you are ok with that …… and when it was “legal” to shoot Jews in the street ….. you are ok with that ….. because “legal” is the standard ……..

          • OhSoGood

            Oh, Amos… are you honestly, with a straight face, claiming that gay marriage is as harmful as slavery or shooting people? Oh, you poor dear… I am so sorry this is such a difficult concept for you.

          • Palsgraf’s Scale

            Sources, please. Preferably governmental or taken directly from scientific sources that have correlated homosexual tendencies with mortality.

          • Amos Moses

            i do not to need provide you any sources ….. not really interested in what you would prefer ….. government or science is not a source of morality ……… only immorality ……

          • Palsgraf’s Scale

            I said mortality. Not morality. There is, in fact, a difference. You made the claim that homosexual couples suffer shorter health by 30-40 years. Substantiate that claim with scientific data, since that is a conclusion clearly based in medical science.

          • Amos Moses

            dang glasses ….. i have posted it several times ….. but here is something i have not posted for a while ….

            Below are some homosexuality statistics which reveal the nature of homosexuality:

            A 1997 CDC report found that among homosexuals who had unprotected anal intercourse and multiple sexual partners, 68 percent were entirely unaware of the HIV status of their partners.

            The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention stated the following regarding syphilis in the United States: “While surveillance data are not available by risk behavior, a separate CDC analysis suggests that approximately 64 percent of all adult P&S syphilis cases in 2004 were among men who have sex with men, up from an estimated 5 percent in 1999….”

            The CDC reported the following regarding the United States and homosexuality: “CDC conducted sentinel surveillance in 28 cities and found the proportion of cases resistant to fluoroquinolone antibiotics (a first-line treatment for gonorrhea) increased from 4.1 percent in 2003 to 6.8 percent in 2004. Resistance is especially worrisome in men who have sex with men, where it was eight times higher than among heterosexuals (23.8 percent vs. 2.9 percent).”

            In 2006, The Medical Journal of Australia stated the following: “High rates of intestinal parasitism are found in MSM [men who have sex with men] throughout the world.”

            According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) both Hepatitis A and Hepatitis B disproportionately affects men who have sex with men (MSM).

            Lymphogranuloma venereum is a sexually transmitted disease that mainly infects the lymphatics.[16] According to the recent medical literature, there have been recent outbreaks of lymphogranuloma venereum in Europe and North America and the outbreaks have been limited to the homosexual community.

            In June of 2004, the journal Nursing Clinics of North America reported: “One of the more pressing issues for gay men is anal carcinoma. Several recent studies have indicated the rate of anal dysplasia to be increasing in men with and without HIV. Ninety percent of men with HIV have the Human Papiloma Virus (HPV), while 65% of men without HIV have HPV. HPV type 16 is the most troublesome for developing cancer and is found in a significant portion of gay men.” (see also: Homosexuality and anal cancer).[

            In 2007 the Los Angeles Times reported the frequency of methamphetamine use is twenty times greater among homosexuals than in the general population.

            The recent medical literature states the homosexual men and lesbians in the United States have significantly higher rates of cigarette smoking than heterosexuals.

            A June 2004 , Canadian Community Health Survey of 83,000 people reported the following:

            “The results indicate that, for some health-related measures, there are important differences between the heterosexual population and the gay, lesbian and bisexual population.
            Among individuals aged 18 to 59, for example, 21.8% of homosexuals and bisexuals reported that they had an unmet health care need in 2003, nearly twice the proportion of heterosexuals (12.7%). Homosexuals and bisexuals are more likely than heterosexuals to find life stressful.

            In addition, 31.4% of homosexuals and bisexuals reported that they were physically active in 2003, compared with 25.4% of heterosexuals.

            and more recently ………

            Men who have sex with men (MSM) represented 90% of all syphilis cases in 2015, with a 232% increase in diagnosis over the last five years, said the report. More than half of the MSM diagnosed with syphilis in 2015 were also infected with HIV, and over half additionally tested positive for a separate STI. Rates in heterosexuals remain stable but are higher than ideal.
            It’s 2016. Safe sex campaigns and targeted prevention efforts are in place. Sexual health care is free and accessible to both high and low risk groups. So what is going on?
            The basic science can’t be sugar coated. More condomless sex leads to higher rates of syphilis, (and gonorrhoea, chlamydia, HIV … the list goes on). Untreated syphilis means the disease continues to be passed on and leads to potentially horrifying long-term medical complications. Action is needed now to address the reasons behind these patterns, particularly in MSM, the group most affected.
            In MSM, higher numbers of partners is a key reason behind the heavily inflated rates, compounded by the use of apps such as Grindr, venue based and group sex. The reported increased use of Chemsex (recreational drugs used during sex) is also of concern, lowering sexual inhibitions and making the likelihood of using a condom less likely.
            Another worrying phenomenon is “sero-sorting” – when men choose partners who have the same HIV status, in theory negating the need to use a condom. However, this puts both partners at high risk of contracting a plethora of STIs.
            So what to do? A wag of the finger and a warning to wear condoms is insufficient. While individuals do need to take responsibility for their personal health, adequate support and infrastructure is essential to achieve better sexual health in the UK and turn around these rising figures.
            —————————————————————————————————————–
            The main outcome measures of interest were age-specific patterns of death, life expectancy and life expectancy lost due to HIV/AIDS at exact age 20 years, and the probability of living from age 20 to 65 years. RESULTS: Estimates of the mid-period gay and bisexual population ranged from 5406 to 16,219 for the three scenarios, and total deaths in these men from 953 to 1703. Age-specific mortality was significantly higher for gay and bisexual men than all men aged 30-44. Life expectancy at age 20 for gay and bisexual men ranged from 34.0 years to 46.3 years for the 3% and 9% scenarios respectively. These were all lower than the 54.3 year life expectancy at age 20 for all men. The probability of living from age 20 to 65 years for gay and bisexual men ranged from 32% for the 3% scenario, to 59% for the 9% scenario. These figures were considerably lower than for all men where the probability of living from 20 to 65 was 78%. CONCLUSION: In a major Canadian centre, life expectancy at age 20 years for gay and bisexual men is 8 to 20 years less than for all men. If the same pattern of mortality were to continue, we estimate that nearly half of gay and bisexual men currently aged 20 years will not reach their 65th birthday. Under even the most liberal assumptions, gay and bisexual men in this urban centre are now experiencing a life expectancy similar to that experienced by all men in Canada in the year 1871.
            Oxford Journals Medicine & Health International Journal of Epidemiology Volume 26, Issue 3 Pp. 657-661.

            If you need more i have it ……………

          • ter ber

            The anus lacks the natural lubrication the vagina has. Penetration can tear the tissue inside the anus, allowing bacteria and viruses to enter the bloodstream. This can result in the spread of sexually transmitted infections including HIV. Studies have suggested that anal exposure to HIV poses 30 times more risk for the receptive partner than vaginal exposure. Exposure to the human papillomavirus (HPV) may also lead to the development of anal warts and anal cancer. Using lubricants can help some, but doesn’t completely prevent tearing.
            The tissue inside the anus is not as well protected as the skin outside the anus. Our external tissue has layers of dead cells that serve as a protective barrier against infection. The tissue inside the anus does not have this natural protection, which leaves it vulnerable to tearing and the spread of infection.
            The anus was designed to hold in feces. The anus is surrounded with a ring-like muscle, called the anal sphincter, which tightens after we defecate. When the muscle is tight, anal penetration can be painful and difficult. Repetitive anal sex may lead to weakening of the anal sphincter, making it difficult to hold in feces until you can get to the toilet. However, Kegel exercises to strengthen the sphincter may help prevent this problem or correct it.
            The anus is full of bacteria. Even if both partners do not have a sexually-transmitted infection or disease, bacteria normally in the anus can potentially infect the giving partner. Practicing vaginal sex after anal sex
            can also lead to vaginal and urinary tract infections. WEB MD

          • OhSoGood

            Stop. ~30% of the straight people in this nation do the same thing, and that is FAR higher numbers than gay men. So stop. I did not ask about sex. Stop. I guess since lesbians don’t do that, their marriages must be wonderful. So stop. Just bloody stop.

            I did not ask about the possible risks of anal sex. I asked what harm came from gay marriage.

            Stop with your obsession with buttsex. If you can’t demonstrate harm from gay marriage, then say so, but this obsession you have with who’s playing with buttsex (most of whom are STRAIGHT) is just scary.

            Now, “ter ber”… what harm comes from gay marriage?

          • ter ber

            “Just bloody STOP?” My my, I must have really poked the bear with the dangers of anal sex.
            The demons do not care with whom you are lusting over…multiple partners, same sex, children, animals, shoes….just so you are in Rebellion to Our Creator.

          • OhSoGood

            I am not asking about anal sex. I have never asked about anal sex. But that is all you people want to talk about.

            What is the harm brought by gay marriage? THAT is what I’m asking.

            The fact that you have to talk about anal sex instead of answering that question tells me you’ll never get the issue before SCOTUS again.

          • Palsgraf’s Scale

            I, for one, intend to die a rebel at a ripe old age.

          • Trilemma

            So lesbian marriages are okay then. Not all gay marriages indulge in this type of sex so they must be okay too then.

          • ter ber

            NOT ok with the Creator of us and the universe.
            Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

            26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

            27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

            28 And even as they did not like to retain
            God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

          • Trilemma

            None of those verses condemns same sex marriage. They don’t even mention same sex marriage. In fact, same sex marriage is never mentioned in the entire Bible.

          • SammySeattle

            Not one of those passages has any bearing on the laws of the United States of America.

          • ter ber

            Satan’s rebellion makes our rebellion so much easier doesn’t it?

          • Palsgraf’s Scale

            All mitigatable with proper lubrication and protection. This is no different than heterosexual couples that engage in anal sex.

        • james blue

          What special rights in regards to marriage do gay couples have that we do not?

          • Amos Moses

            The right to call a thing that is not marriage marriage….. it is a lie ….

          • james blue

            And you don’t have that right because? You have the right to call marriage anything you want. You can call anything whatever you want to call it. You can call a car a banana if you want, you have that right.

          • Amos Moses

            You can say a lie is the truth …. But it aint….

          • james blue

            But gay marriage is an actual thing. You may not like it, but it exists, it’s real and not a “lie”.

            It’s not a “special right” you don’t have

          • Amos Moses

            homomarriage is a lie ….. no amount of powdered sugar will turn it into a doughnut…..

          • Amos Moses

            gay marriage is an actual thing ….. an actual lie of a thing …………

          • Amos Moses

            a lie is still a lie ……….

        • Benji

          Obergefell v. Hodges did not confer special rights to gay couples, it extended the SAME rights to gay couples that heterosexual couples enjoy. This is not a “separate designation”. So let me get this straight– you don’t read much, are poorly educated and assert things that have no basis in fact… Yep, sounds like a fundamentalist!

          • Amos Moses

            “Obergefell v. Hodges did not confer special rights to gay couples”

            Yes it did ….. it gave the right to redefine that english language to mean a thing it is not ….. and it is still a lie ………….

            so let me get this straight ………… all you have is ad hominem attack …..

          • Benji

            No. Point of fact. You have great difficulty coming to terms with data in a single post, let alone a constitutional argument from a Supreme Court case.

            Once again, no special or separate rights were given to gay couples by the Court. You are free to argue your point about homosexuality being a sin however you wish, but you can’t bluff your way thru a make believe legal narrative. Accept the factual correction and move on.

          • Amos Moses

            you are on a christian forum …… the topic is not constitutionality …… it is morality and christianity ……… so you are the one with head space and timing issues and an unawarness of your surroundings …… want to come here and argue … fine ….. but you will not make much headway with your points if you cannot understand where you are ……. want a SCOTUS case ………. how about Dred Scott ……………….

          • Benji

            Sir or Ma’m, your argument was completely fallacious and rather easily disproved with facts surrounding the case. Now you’re just throwing a temper tantrum.

          • Amos Moses

            you do not make me angry ….. you make me pity you …… and you have no answer to Dred Scott …………

          • Benji

            Stay on topic

          • Amos Moses

            Topic was “it was legal” and that is the topic you chose ………….. Dred Scott …………..

          • Benji

            No. The point was you stated that gay couples were given a “separate designation” and “special rights”, when the exact opposite is the truth. They are given the same rights that you have as a closeted gay man with agoraphobia.

          • Amos Moses

            Excuse me …. i have several conversations going and they cross over on occasion ……..

            No … “They are given the same rights that you have as a closeted gay man with agoraphobia.” …. they had the exact same rights as everyone else prior to OvH ……… no more …. no less ….. and what they argued for was a right to redefine what was already defined ….. marriage …….. whether you recognize it or not ……….. so homomarriage is not marriage ……… it is a lie ….. and a special right ….

          • OhSoGood

            We now have the same rights, Amos… why, you and Rufus can get married now and don’t have to hide behind Mrs. Waters’ bushes anymore.

            The definition of marriage hasn’t changed… only those that can take part in the contract.

            If it were special, only some people could take part, but it’s open to everybody… even you, dear little Amos.

          • Amos Moses

            No ….. you have a special right ………. you HAD the exact same rights as everyone else …… and if you choose to believe the lie that it was otherwise …… then that is your business …. but you now want to force the rest of society to accept your lie …… and it does not make a difference who you trample in the process ……..

          • OhSoGood

            Amos, stop being silly. If everyone in the nation can do it, how is it special?

            Who’s been trampled? Can’t tell me that either, can ya?

            You ain’t been forced to do anything, Amos… and maybe that’s the problem. All these gay folks getting some, and nobody’s willing to play with Amos. So sad.

          • Amos Moses

            there is no homomarriage …. it is a lie ….. two of the SS is not a marriage ….. “All these gay folks getting some” ……… and that about sums up the lie ………. that is all it is about ….

          • OhSoGood

            Still no evidence of harm. Oh little Amos, you both disappoint and thrill. Disappoint because you show no harm from gay marriage, thrill because you obviously cannot help change things.

            You poor little boy…

          • Amos Moses

            all kinds of evidence ….. you just refuse to acknowledge it ……….. not my problem ……….

          • Amos Moses

            Men who have sex with men (MSM) represented 90% of all syphilis cases in 2015, with a 232% increase in diagnosis over the last five years, said the report. More than half of the MSM diagnosed with syphilis in 2015 were also infected with HIV, and over half additionally tested positive for a separate STI. Rates in heterosexuals remain stable but are higher than ideal.

            Government cuts are brewing a sexual health crisis
            Verity Sullivan
            Read more
            It’s 2016. Safe sex campaigns and targeted prevention efforts are in place. Sexual health care is free and accessible to both high and low risk groups. So what is going on?

            The basic science can’t be sugar coated. More condomless sex leads to higher rates of syphilis, (and gonorrhoea, chlamydia, HIV … the list goes on). Untreated syphilis means the disease continues to be passed on and leads to potentially horrifying long-term medical complications. Action is needed now to address the reasons behind these patterns, particularly in MSM, the group most affected.

            In MSM, higher numbers of partners is a key reason behind the heavily inflated rates, compounded by the use of apps such as Grindr, venue based and group sex. The reported increased use of Chemsex (recreational drugs used during sex) is also of concern, lowering sexual inhibitions and making the likelihood of using a condom less likely.

            Another worrying phenomenon is “sero-sorting” – when men choose partners who have the same HIV status, in theory negating the need to use a condom. However, this puts both partners at high risk of contracting a plethora of STIs.

            So what to do? A wag of the finger and a warning to wear condoms is insufficient. While individuals do need to take responsibility for their personal health, adequate support and infrastructure is essential to achieve better sexual health in the UK and turn around these rising figures.

          • OhSoGood

            Oh, poor dear. I haven’t asked you about MSM statistics. I know those. I’m free of all of them.

            You harp on gay marriage and the harm it brings . Tell me what harm you see in that. So far, you’ve failed.

            Poor dear…

          • Amos Moses

            homomarriage does not change those stats ….. and it seduces children into thinking it is normal ….. when it aint …. it is a lie …. and building on a lie is destructive ……. in ways we can somewhat predict and in ways we cannot ………. and as i pointed out ….. HRC losing and the destructive reaction to DJTs election and the lawless reactions we are seeing are direct examples of what it is doing ……….. you do not accept that ….. i do not care if you do or not …. nothing i say to you will change your ideas …… until it does ……… deary …….

          • OhSoGood

            Yet you offer no concrete evidence. You have none.

            Show us what harm has fallen in the decade since MA passed gay marriage. Show us!

          • Amos Moses

            you deny any evidence given to you ……. what would be the point ….. you are more interested … more vested in your lie than the truth …..

          • OhSoGood

            You offer no evidence… just vague generalizations and opinion backed by nothing.

          • Amos Moses

            “You offer no evidence”

            AGAIN ….. and it is EVIDENCE you choose to dismiss ………..

            Men who have sex with men (MSM) represented 90% of all syphilis cases in 2015, with a 232% increase in diagnosis over the last five years, said the report. More than half of the MSM diagnosed with syphilis in 2015 were also infected with HIV, and over half additionally tested positive for a separate STI. Rates in heterosexuals remain stable but are higher than ideal.
            It’s 2016. Safe sex campaigns and targeted prevention efforts are in place. Sexual health care is free and accessible to both high and low risk groups. So what is going on?
            The basic science can’t be sugar coated. More condomless sex leads to higher rates of syphilis, (and gonorrhoea, chlamydia, HIV … the list goes on). Untreated syphilis means the disease continues to be passed on and leads to potentially horrifying long-term medical complications. Action is needed now to address the reasons behind these patterns, particularly in MSM, the group most affected.
            In MSM, higher numbers of partners is a key reason behind the heavily inflated rates, compounded by the use of apps such as Grindr, venue based and group sex. The reported increased use of Chemsex (recreational drugs used during sex) is also of concern, lowering sexual inhibitions and making the likelihood of using a condom less likely.
            Another worrying phenomenon is “sero-sorting” – when men choose partners who have the same HIV status, in theory negating the need to use a condom. However, this puts both partners at high risk of contracting a plethora of STIs.
            So what to do? A wag of the finger and a warning to wear condoms is insufficient. While individuals do need to take responsibility for their personal health, adequate support and infrastructure is essential to achieve better sexual health in the UK and turn around these rising figures.
            —————————————————————————————————————–
            The main outcome measures of interest were age-specific patterns of death, life expectancy and life expectancy lost due to HIV/AIDS at exact age 20 years, and the probability of living from age 20 to 65 years. RESULTS: Estimates of the mid-period gay and bisexual population ranged from 5406 to 16,219 for the three scenarios, and total deaths in these men from 953 to 1703. Age-specific mortality was significantly higher for gay and bisexual men than all men aged 30-44. Life expectancy at age 20 for gay and bisexual men ranged from 34.0 years to 46.3 years for the 3% and 9% scenarios respectively. These were all lower than the 54.3 year life expectancy at age 20 for all men. The probability of living from age 20 to 65 years for gay and bisexual men ranged from 32% for the 3% scenario, to 59% for the 9% scenario. These figures were considerably lower than for all men where the probability of living from 20 to 65 was 78%. CONCLUSION: In a major Canadian centre, life expectancy at age 20 years for gay and bisexual men is 8 to 20 years less than for all men. If the same pattern of mortality were to continue, we estimate that nearly half of gay and bisexual men currently aged 20 years will not reach their 65th birthday. Under even the most liberal assumptions, gay and bisexual men in this urban centre are now experiencing a life expectancy similar to that experienced by all men in Canada in the year 1871.
            Oxford Journals Medicine & Health International Journal of Epidemiology Volume 26, Issue 3 Pp. 657-661.

          • OhSoGood

            That has nothing to do with gay marriage.

            Again, you’re only offering up reasons you don’t like gay people. It demonstrates harm that goes hand in hand with living irresponsibly, but it says absolutely nothing about gay marriage.

            You don’t like gay people… got it. Folks who live irresponsibly generally suffer ill effects… got it.

            But that is not marriage. What I’m asking you about is marriage, not the physical acts of homosexuality.

            Can you or can you not demonstrate any harm from allowing to people of the same sex to get married?

          • Amos Moses

            studies are not my personal opinion ….. but your assertion of “you’re only offering up reasons you don’t like gay people” is yours ………….

          • OhSoGood

            Your studies are not related to gay people being married in any way.

            It’s a diversion tactic because you can’t show harm from gay people getting married.

          • Amos Moses

            gay unions have been legal in England a lot longer than here ….. and it has not changed a thing …… denial is not a river in Egypt …………

          • OhSoGood

            Who said it would change anything?

            I’m asking what harm it does.

          • Amos Moses

            harm …….. is incest ok …….. can a brother or sister or a father and a daughter marry …….. why or why not ………..

          • Amos Moses

            harm ……… shutting down free speech ………. because we cant have people speaking out against homomarriage and anything else that “triggers” us …….. and labeling anyone who disagrees with our own thoughts as “beegits, intolerant, etc” ………..

            like ……..

            Disability
            “Coworkers at another institution frequently tried to ‘diagnose’ people behind their back, and repeatedly described people with specific disabilities (that I share) as scary, dangerous, awkward, creepy, weird, ect.”
            “Don’t call yourself that,” where that refers to me calling myself disabled.
            “She’s so bipolar.” Disabilities are not insults.
            “You have so much to be thankful for, you have no reason to be depressed.”
            “You just need a positive mental attitude!” being told to people with mental illness or other disabilities.
            A disabled person being told “You’re so inspirational” for doing an everyday task.
            A non-disabled classmate viewing the R-word as just another swear word and including it in a poem.
            Going to other campus social justice or diversity events, and them not being accessible [for disabled people].
            Having to take a longer, less obvious route to get into buildings on campus.
            micro3

            Religion
            “All Jews are rich.” I’m working to pay myself through college.
            “Jew are just white people”… explain these communities who have existed for centuries.
            There are many holidays to be observant of, and I may have to miss class. Please respect my religion.
            When someone finds out that I’m Jewish and then asks if I was born that way.
            LGBTQ
            “I don’t understand why you can’t just be happy with your body.”
            “Since you’re transitioning, does that make you [insert sexuality here]?”
            “What’s your real name/gender?”—One’s identity and/or gender are what they say it is.
            “Why can’t boys just dress like boys and girls just dress like girls?”
            “Why can’t you just be gay?”—Gender identity and sexuality are not the same.
            But gender is socially constructed, you don’t need to physically transition”—accept, don’t invalidate trans people’s experiences and wants for their body.
            People correcting others for not using certain terms to describe me (e.g. “No, that’s a dudette”)—let trans people describe their own identities.
            Race and Ethnicity
            “When you underestimate my mental capacity based on my proficiency speaking English.”
            Arriving at a house party and hearing, “Party’s over, too many n*ggers here, time to leave.”
            Being asked if “there were pinatas” at my friend’s party.
            Being asked to present the black perspective in a predominantly white class.
            Being called an “angry black woman” when speaking in a stern voice or standing up for yourself.
            Being in a room full of fellow academics and being told that you speak “very intelligently.”
            Being the only person questioned at a party after the DJ’s IPod goes missing.
            Being told that I am “so well spoken…for a Latino.”
            Being told that I am a “Spicy Latina,” anytime that I give my opinion.
            Jogging down the street and hearing “Run N*gger Run,” shouted from cars passing by.
            Professors making condescending remarks about your undergrad because it was an HBCU.
            Treating my hair as your own private petting zoo.
            Virginia Tech students asking me what I plan to do with my degree “back home.”
            When fellow Hokies tell me, “I thought all of YOU PEOPLE were good at basketball.”
            When I tell someone about my origins and they reply with “Wait, you’re all not Mexican!”
            When meeting someone for the first time, and the first thing they ask is if “English is my second language.”
            When my white professors say “n*gger” thoughtlessly in class.
            When people tell you you’re only at Virginia Tech because of affirmative action.
            When school official state that, “people like you should stay home and not waste taxpayers dollars…despite scoring in the 90th percentile in nationwide exams.”
            When white people claim to be “blacker than you” for knowing the words to a rap song.
            When you tell people where you’re from and they automatically assume you’re from the “bad part” of that area.
            When you think it’s humorous to ask me, “how do you say taco in Spanish.”

            crybullies, snowflakes and whiners about things they are offended about …………. sorry ….. in a free society ….. you have no right to NOT be offended ………… GROW UP …………

          • OhSoGood

            Again… you’re lashing out at gay people (and this time, a whole bunch of others), but you say nothing about gay marriage.

            I don’t care if you offend me. I just consider the source. Now, instead of whining about gay people, can you identify any harm that comes directly from two gay people getting married?

          • Amos Moses

            homosexuals are lashing out at free speech ………. or can you not parse the story ………

          • OhSoGood

            Still nothing to do with marriage.
            #CantDoIt

          • Amos Moses

            it is a direct result of homomarriage and shutting down free speech to enforce the idea …… well…. the lie …….. cant have anyone dispute the lie …….

          • OhSoGood

            It is completely unrelated to gay marriage in any way. You have made no connection between the two.

            I’ll give you a chance (that I’ve no doubt you’ll fail). Demonstrate how it is a direct result of gay marriage.

          • Amos Moses

            denial …….. FAIL …………..

          • OhSoGood

            Show the connection.

            What am I in denial of? If you can answer that, maybe you can show correlation.

          • Amos Moses

            denial ……. fail ………….

          • OhSoGood

            Thank you sweetie!

          • Amos Moses

            still in denial …… you are about destruction of society ………. fail ……….

          • OhSoGood

            I’m in denial about nothing… not one thing you’ve posted discusses gay marriage, only gay people and things about them you don’t like.

            That’s OK… you insure your own future losses. That’s awesome!

          • OhSoGood

            How will gay marriage lead to the “destruction of society”?

            Can you cite one example, or will it be more “gays are icky”?

          • Amos Moses

            “gays are icky”

            never said that …….

          • Amos Moses

            Incest Embraced by Liberals as “Sexual Diversity” – “Nothing Wrong With It” Say SJWs

            on the utube machine …. direct result …. direct harm ……….

            youtube;com/watch?v=mx457T7iWMA – Replace the ; with a .

          • OhSoGood

            Still nothing about gay marriage.

            I finally see now… you can’t do it.

          • Amos Moses

            you cannot see it because you are willfully blind to the effects of homomarriage ….. denial is your problem …. not mine ………

          • OhSoGood

            You have shown no effects from gay marriage.

          • Amos Moses

            no …….. you are blind to them ……..

          • OhSoGood

            No, you have shown none. All you talk about is gay sex… nothing about marriage.

          • Amos Moses

            if you are blind to them … how would you know ……… and that is all homomarriage is about ………. not about marriage ….. because it is not a marriage …………. so denial and ………… FAIL ……..

          • OhSoGood

            ROFLOL! Yeah… sex and marriage are the same.

            Oh, little Amos… you disappoint so bad. Here I thought you were smart, but it turns out you’re just another every day bigot.

            You poor little thing…

          • Amos Moses

            nope …… it is not a marriage …. it is a homomarriage …. not the samething …..

          • OhSoGood

            Ah, such legal denial is so cute!

          • Amos Moses

            has nothing to do with the law …. has nothing to do with “legal” ….. has to do with the truth ……

          • OhSoGood

            Ah, back to mythology. You please me… you will change nothing.

          • Amos Moses

            so again ….. is that a scientific, theological, or personal opinion …………

          • Amos Moses

            denial ………. but right …. not marriage …. HOMOMARRIAGE ……….

          • OhSoGood

            It never mentions gay marriage and you show no correlation.

            I like you, Little Amos… you are a valued ally. With you against us, we’re gonna do just fine.

          • Amos Moses

            denial ……. fail ………….. self destruction is not a good strategy …. ultimate fail ……..

          • OhSoGood

            Nothing to do with marriage.

            All I’ve asked you about is gay marriage… not your opinion of gay people.

          • Amos Moses

            not an opinion …. the direct results of homomarriage ……….

          • OhSoGood

            How? You draw no correlation between what you’re whining about and gay marriage.

            Not in any way.

          • Amos Moses

            denial …………. fail …………

          • Amos Moses

            FYI ….. this is what people at Virginia Tech said ….. and want it as POLICY ………. that is DIRECT harm from homomarriage and the idea that it is okey-doke ……….

          • OhSoGood

            No demonstration of harm from gay marriage

            #AmosFail

          • Amos Moses

            denial …………….

          • OhSoGood

            How? It never once mentions marriage in any way.

          • Amos Moses

            denial ……. fail ……….. .

          • Amos Moses

            Incest Embraced As Normal by Liberals – Sexual Diversity Welcomed by LGBT Community

            Woman who was given up for adoption reveals she’s having a sexual relationship with her real dad – after she tracked him down as an adult and they fell in love
            An adoptee took to Reddit to reveal how she fell in love with her father
            The woman met her biological father as an adult and ‘hit it off immediately’
            She hopes her story will educate people about Genetic Sexual Attraction

            —- Dailymail

          • OhSoGood

            Nothing to do with marriage.

            #CantDoIt

          • Amos Moses

            denial ………..

          • http://www.biblewordstudy.org Adam in Christ

            “Educate” seems to be a prideful kind of buzz word being used.

          • Amos Moses

            denial ………… fail ……….. embrace of depravity …………. fail ……………

          • http://www.biblewordstudy.org Adam in Christ

            Amos it’s me, lol.

            How’ve you been?

          • Amos Moses

            Just having fun with the stiff necked pagans …. you….

          • http://www.biblewordstudy.org Adam in Christ

            I am thankful that we have such an awesome God; who keeps me lifted up, as I diligently seek Him.

            Brother, I am convinced that we are going to be headed into significantly dark times soon. Like when Joseph was in Egypt just prior to the 7 years of famine, I’m doing my best to prepare for what’s coming, as the Lord guides me.

            I just feel that it would be right to extend this warning to you, also.

            Anyhow, hope the Lord is blessing you and keeping you.

          • Amos Moses

            did you see the news about the Dow hitting 20000 …… a lot of people are happy …… but in the great depression ….. same thing happened ……. very high highs ….. then bust …. get ready for the Nebuchadnezzar rollercoaster ride ………. bless you brother ………

          • Amos Moses

            BTW, check this out …….

            Incest Embraced by Liberals as “Sexual Diversity” – “Nothing Wrong With It” Say SJWs
            on the utube machine …. direct result …. direct harm ……….
            youtube;com/watch?v=mx457T7iWMA – Replace the ; with a .

            WOW ……… cant be called a beegot …. that would be terrible ……..

          • Amos Moses

            them getting syphilis at a 200% plus rate is not harm ….. married or not …….. WOW ………. but you say i hate them ……… again ………. WOW ……..

          • OhSoGood

            Nothing to do with gay marriage.

            No harm shown from gay marriage.

            #YouKnowYouCant

          • Amos Moses

            denial ………………

          • OhSoGood

            #StillCantDoIt

            It never mentions marriage.

          • Amos Moses

            denial ……. fail ………..

          • Trilemma

            So, no harm with lesbian marriage. No harm with gay marriage if the men abstain from a particular type of sex.

          • Amos Moses

            Disgruntled Democrats Want A Constitutional Convention To Leave The Union
            Claim They Are Three States Away

            Lawlessness ………… but please ………. do it …… look at my eyes ….. DO IT …………

          • OhSoGood

            Couldn’t care less. I don’t vote democrat.

          • Amos Moses

            it is lawlessness that you have encouraged ….. has nothing to do with your vote of a candidate ….. it was your vote, by your actions, of lawlessness ………….

          • OhSoGood

            Perfectly lawful.

          • Benji

            Okey doke.

          • Amos Moses

            NYTimes – Pedophilia: A Disorder, Not a Crime

            So when SCOTUS says this is now true …… you are ok with that ….. because it will be legal …..

          • Benji

            You are a magnet for error and conspiracy. You also are changing the subject. SCOTUS did not confer special rights to same-sex marriages.

          • Amos Moses

            The main outcome measures of interest were age-specific patterns of death, life expectancy and life expectancy lost due to HIV/AIDS at exact age 20 years, and the probability of living from age 20 to 65 years. RESULTS: Estimates of the mid-period gay and bisexual population ranged from 5406 to 16,219 for the three scenarios, and total deaths in these men from 953 to 1703. Age-specific mortality was significantly higher for gay and bisexual men than all men aged 30-44. Life expectancy at age 20 for gay and bisexual men ranged from 34.0 years to 46.3 years for the 3% and 9% scenarios respectively. These were all lower than the 54.3 year life expectancy at age 20 for all men. The probability of living from age 20 to 65 years for gay and bisexual men ranged from 32% for the 3% scenario, to 59% for the 9% scenario. These figures were considerably lower than for all men where the probability of living from 20 to 65 was 78%. CONCLUSION: In a major Canadian centre, life expectancy at age 20 years for gay and bisexual men is 8 to 20 years less than for all men. If the same pattern of mortality were to continue, we estimate that nearly half of gay and bisexual men currently aged 20 years will not reach their 65th birthday. Under even the most liberal assumptions, gay and bisexual men in this urban centre are now experiencing a life expectancy similar to that experienced by all men in Canada in the year 1871.

            Oxford Journals Medicine & Health International Journal of Epidemiology Volume 26, Issue 3 Pp. 657-661.

          • Amos Moses

            Men who have sex with men (MSM) represented 90% of all syphilis cases in 2015, with a 232% increase in diagnosis over the last five years, said the report. More than half of the MSM diagnosed with syphilis in 2015 were also infected with HIV, and over half additionally tested positive for a separate STI. Rates in heterosexuals remain stable but are higher than ideal.

            It’s 2016. Safe sex campaigns and targeted prevention efforts are in place. Sexual health care is free and accessible to both high and low risk groups. So what is going on?

            The basic science can’t be sugar coated. More condomless sex leads to higher rates of syphilis, (and gonorrhoea, chlamydia, HIV … the list goes on). Untreated syphilis means the disease continues to be passed on and leads to potentially horrifying long-term medical complications. Action is needed now to address the reasons behind these patterns, particularly in MSM, the group most affected.

            In MSM, higher numbers of partners is a key reason behind the heavily inflated rates, compounded by the use of apps such as Grindr, venue based and group sex. The reported increased use of Chemsex (recreational drugs used during sex) is also of concern, lowering sexual inhibitions and making the likelihood of using a condom less likely.

            Another worrying phenomenon is “sero-sorting” – when men choose partners who have the same HIV status, in theory negating the need to use a condom. However, this puts both partners at high risk of contracting a plethora of STIs.

            So what to do? A wag of the finger and a warning to wear condoms is insufficient. While individuals do need to take responsibility for their personal health, adequate support and infrastructure is essential to achieve better sexual health in the UK and turn around these rising figures.

          • SammySeattle

            Each and every human on the face of the earth has the right to redefine language, it has been going on for thousands of years.

          • Amos Moses

            no … they do not ……… that is just babble and leads to babble …. and no effective communication …….. and that is a lie ……….

          • SammySeattle

            Reality does not support your assertions.

          • Amos Moses

            Sure …. guess it depends on how you redefine “reality” ……….. ooopppsss … HUGE gaping maw of a HOLE in that theory ………….. DUH! ………

          • SammySeattle

            The reality is that language is constantly evolving. Your use of the phrase, “Duh” demonstrates this. One hundred years ago that phrase was unknown.

          • Amos Moses

            only if you keep redefining reality ….. oh shoot …. there it is again ………

          • SammySeattle

            So, language is static? Is that your “reality”?

          • Amos Moses

            language is not dynamic or it has no meaning ….. and you become untethered and all that is left is babble ….. and then people just babble on (Babylon) ………..

          • SammySeattle

            Language is certainly dynamic. Only someone who has no knowledge of history or the human condition would think that it is static.

          • Amos Moses

            the definitions are static ….. you can invent new words and give it a meaning ….. but established words have a fixed meaning ….. we do not say the word “up” and expect people to think “down” ….. if you do then all we have is confusion and no communication …… unless that is your goal …. to not be understood ……. or to feign not understanding others ….. it turns language into a lie …….

          • SammySeattle

            Etymologists completely disagree with your agenda driven assessment. You might want to examine the definition of “lie” and realize that you practice that behavior with regularity.

          • Amos Moses

            the “agenda driven assessment” is yours and your post modern clap-trap of “things are what i say they are, not what anyone else says” …….. the lie is saying words do not have any consistent meaning ….. like a 5yo playing checkers and when he is losing proceeds to make up new rules …….. loser childish behavior ……….. and your initials to your avatar are a newspeak give away ….. SS ….. really ……………

          • SammySeattle

            “Things are what I say they are”. Oh, the irony in that statement. That is your wheelhouse.

          • Amos Moses

            you came to a christian site to spread your propaganda ….. not the other way round ….. we do not seek your propaganda ….. you steered your wheelhouse here ……….

      • Kaz

        Who are you trying to kid? The last word to describe homosexuals is “law-abiding.” Our local news is an endless parade of gay men who get caught trying to hook up with little boys online, or having sex in a restroom or public park.

        Drop the propaganda, and stop pretending gays are respectable citizens. Every lawyer and judge and cop in the US knows that most gay men have criminal records.

        • Liberal Elitist

          I deal with child molestation cases in my five-county judicial circuit. One county in particular is home to a large naval submarine base. This particular county accounts for the majority of child molestation cases in the whole circuit. EVERY SINGLE child molestation case that I have come across in this county in 2016 has involved a heterosexual male molesting a female child.

        • james blue

          There are endless parades of “straight men” getting caught trying to hook up with little girls online. Does that mean we cannot call heterosexuals “law abiding”?

          Do you have any stats about most gay men having criminal records?

      • Rev McGinnis

        a purely Constitutional argument…
        First, the US Constitution does not grant anyone a right to marry. Period.
        For argument’s sake, let’s say that the US Constitution does grant every person in the United States a right to marry.
        However, that Constitutional right is limited – it only grants a person a right to marry persons from a select few groups. No one has the right to marry a child. No one has the right to marry their father or mother, their brother or sister, or their child. No one has the right to marry someone who is already married. No one has the right to marry a tree, a car, or an “idea”. No one has a right to marry a person of the same sex as themselves.
        Everyone has the right to marry, but who you can marry is limited – that right only extends to a certain portion of the population. My rights to marry are limited, and so are everyone else’s rights.
        Now, I guess you’ll want some other kind of argument…

        • james blue

          Do states have the constitutional right to ban Christian marriage?

          Do the states have the constitutional right to ban heterosexual marriage?

        • SammySeattle

          The Constitution does not limit the right of any citizen to marry. It only guarantees recognition of those marriages by our government. Gay people have been marrying forever, it has only been during the past two years that we have guaranteed our right to have the government recognize those marriages.

      • Nedd Kareiva

        Yeah, I can. Being homo is a choice. It’s not innate. You can choose with whom you copulate. You have no choice in what gender you were born with or your skin color or race. The ruling was a sham because it incorrectly assumed homosexuality was immutable and unchangeable. The fact people have walked away from it is testament to that. The gay lobby can blow its collective stack all it wants upon hearing that but the facts do not lie. People do leave this unhealthy, unnatural lifestyle. Even the lefty sites Yahoo & Reuters have had stories of how homosexuals and lesbians are in poorer health and smoke and drink more than non-homos and non-lesbos.

        That aside, Justices Kagan & Ginsburg should have recused themselves from hearing the marriage case since they had “married” two men in their own private capacities. Since they didn’t, the ruling was a legal sham and since Congress did not write any laws in favor of same sex marriage, this decision must be revisited, no matter what Jeffries or Trump (whom I voted for) say; that is if our Constitution truly matters and not what some leftists want to force it to believe it says.

        • SammySeattle

          Religion is a choice, it is not immutable and unchangeable, yet there are a plethora of rights associated with that chosen designation.

          And, btw, gay people are born gay, I didn’t choose my orientation any more than I chose my skin color.

          • DrewTwoFish

            What I find astounding is why straight people care SO much whether or not gay people get married.

          • Nedd Kareiva

            If gays are born that way, then how do you explain that many like Stephen Bennett (someone I know and consider a friend) have walked away from it (in his case after sleeping with over 100 men and miraculously not contracting AIDS)? Perhaps you should call his Connecticut offices, it might do you some good.

          • SammySeattle

            If gays aren’t born that way, then how do explain the millions who haven’t for religious reasons ignored who they are. We are born gay, only religion interferes with gay peoples’ orientation. Maybe you should ask Michael Bussee, Gary Cooper, John Paulk and Peterson Toscano, all former stars in the “ex-gay” con, and see what they have to say. It might do you some good.

      • Benji

        Bingo. Last I checked, marriage was a conservative value.

    • OhSoGood

      How has gay marriage affected you in any way?

      • Oboehner

        Ruined a perfectly good cupcake business.

        • Liberal Elitist

          No, the owner of the business did that, unfortunately.

          • Oboehner

            No, I think it was the deviants who targeted the business.

          • Liberal Elitist

            If you don’t want to be a “target,” then don’t offer wedding services.

          • Kevin Quillen

            if you don’t want to be a target, don’t parade you queerness in public.

          • Liberal Elitist

            Nothing wrong with “queerness,” in public or private. You’ll get used to it.

        • OhSoGood

          Really? That’s all you have?

          • Oboehner

            Had.

      • Amos Moses

        it is destroying society ……… it is endangering children …….. it is encouraging lawlessness ……… as it is lawlessness ………….

        • OhSoGood

          How?

          All you’re offering is vague statements. Details please.

        • Bezukhov

          Lawlessness? Cause homosexuality is a sin, that sort of lawlessness?

    • Kevin Quillen

      well said sister, keep up the good fight.

  • Amos Moses

    “And actually I had to argue against some hard-right Catholics and evangelicals who wanted Mr. Trump to make that a campaign issue,’” he explained. “I said, ‘Guys, forget it. It’s over.’”

    Would seem you are “over” ….. pastor ….. sorry …. hirling Jeffress ………….

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    When the law of the land is evil, Christians should not obey it, no matter what is at stake. Rule of the law is meaningless apart from Christianity, and it causes only human rights abuses. The English people worship the rule of the law too much and the Americans worship the US Constitution too much as if those are the Word of God itself, although the rule of the law of whatever standard and constitutions are altogether a trash if they oppose the Holy Bible. Both of them are based on the Holy Bible anyway.

    I understand the white people’s loathing of discrimination of any kind, because they feel guilty about discriminating the colored people before and are systematically taught racism as the utmost evil instead of promiscuity/nudism and drinking parties, but if they make world’s people endorse homosexuality, it’s the worst kind of mental slavery. Why do they do that? I wish white ministers will stop endorsing homosexuality. Gay weddings are as evil as Satanic rituals and the white ministers’ this kind of attitude only increaes Christian persecutions.

    Are there so many gay people in the West? Please preach repentance to the end. Are the gay supporters too powerful? Please lose everything and go to jail rather than doing this, and let the entire world see how serious the Christian faith is. What is the use of retaining power and money when the demonic pervs are getting their hands on the children? If people start demanding pedophilia and animal abuses and incest and polygamy and cannibalism and foot-binding and widow-killing, will the same ministers still claim “law of the land”? Don’t treat everything as a culture. Barbarism should be corrected by the Church. Jesus commanded His followers to evangelize and teach everyone.

    • johndoe

      Funny but only two of your ten commandments are part of our laws……

      • OhSoGood

        It knows.

    • OhSoGood

      Cry me a river. We are not the theocracy you want us to be, nor will we be. Stay where you ‘re at. America doesn’t need you.

  • BravesFan

    It is profoundly disappointing to see Baptists capitulating.

    • Grace Kim Kwon

      Yes. Almost unbelievable. Sad. The Baptists used to get martyred for a form of baptism. Their descendants would bow to homosexuality? This must be the End era, truly.

    • OhSoGood

      In detail, what would you have them do? How do you propose getting the case back before SCOTUS? What harm can you show?

      • BravesFan

        Christian and Catholic schools and colleges have been sued for maintaining a Biblical view of marriage and homosexuality. They are losing the right to dismiss people involved in un-Biblical relationships such as homosexual marriage. Never mind bakers, florists, photographers, all forced to comply with celebrating homosexual unions. Christian colleges are under fire as well. It’s a mere matter of time before pastors and churches get persecuted. They’ve already tried it in Iowa (I believe). I would have Baptists standing strong on the word of God.

        • Matt Twofourtwonine

          It will lead to Martydom at some point. Case in point from the Bible

          9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.

          10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

          11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

          12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

          13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

          • BravesFan

            John 16: “I have told you these things to keep you from stumbling. 2 They will ban you from the synagogues. In fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering service to God. 3 They will do these things because they haven’t known the Father or Me.

        • OhSoGood

          Can I dismiss a catholic because I disagree with their views on religion and family?

          No one has been asked to celebrate anything.

          You really should read the court transcripts.

          Can I dismiss someone because I disagree with their religious views?

          • BravesFan

            No, you should really read the transcripts. There were many issues brought up that the “justices” admitted would be tricky to solve, yet they still rammed it through.

            Why don’t you tell the Kleins or Mrs. Stutzman that they’re not forced to celebrate anything? They’ll be amazed to hear that they lost their livelihoods only in their imaginations. The “couples” in question could easily have gone down the street, but they instead chose to destroy good people’s lives.

            Are you trying to run a business in accordance with your particular religious views? Do you not think that a Christian college should be able to require that its employees maintain a Biblically sound lifestyle?

          • OhSoGood

            Good grief. No one made them celebrate anything.

            The same protections apply to them, they shouldn’t expect others to not be protected in the same way.

            Answer my question. Can I fire a catholic because I disagree with their vireos on religion and family?

  • Larry W. Jones

    Jeffries was a jerk when he preached his whole Sunday sermon demonizing the late Princess Diana, and he’s still a stupid jerk. I can’t imagine why anyone pays any attention to him.

    • Grace Kim Kwon

      He is not. No j-word, please.

    • Grady Noland

      Arrogant! Pride comes before a fall.

  • Davy Buck

    Abortion is (sadly) also the law of the land.

  • meamsane

    I don’t recall Congress making a SSM law, do you?

    • OhSoGood

      Marriage law already exists. It is the same for straight and gay couples. All that happ3ened were bans against same sex couples were found unconstitutional. That is not making law. Man… get an education.

      • meamsane

        It is not the same. The SC created a “constitutional right” I.E. Homosexual “marriage” where none existed before. They had to defy natural law and reality in order to “equate” marriage with homosexuality. Man….come back to rationality!

        • Liberal Elitist

          Depends on your point of view, as well as interpretation of biblical scripture. Likewise, the U.S. Supreme Court in 1967 struck down as unconstitutional the remaining state bans against interracial opposite-sex marriage and, in so doing, created a “constitutional right,” i.e., interracial opposite-sex marriage in states where it had not existed and was deemed illegal before. In those particular states, before that ruling, any black male could marry any black female, and any white male could marry any white female.

          • meamsane

            Even in Interpretation of Scripture as well as the Constitution there are rules. Not all Interpretations are valid.

            First of all, regardless of color, Interracial marriage was still according to nature, unlike same-sex sexual unions. Moses married an Ethiopian woman. So the bible has no problem with Interracial marriage.

            Secondly, though I personally disagree with the notion of laws banning Interracial marriage, the states had that right and the SC had no jurisdiction in the matter whatsoever. The states did not give the federal government jurisdiction over marriage. It’s nowhere in the Constitution.
            Eventually, those bans would have been lifted anyway by the states that had them, in the same way that at the founding, some states had Established religious denominations but eventually, by the early 1830’s, they disestablished them on their own. Even Thomas Jefferson knew, after he had received a letter from the Danbury Baptists, a minority religious group in Conn. which had an established religion could not interfere with the states on that issue.

        • OhSoGood

          No, the right existed, barriers to some citizens were removed. The laws around marriage are unchanged.

          • meamsane

            You just don’t want to admit the fact that the self-evident reality and all evidence, historical, anthropalogical, biological, anitomical, etc, etc in all of human history points to marriage as a unique relationship between a husband and wife (male-female). There is no evidence that same-sex “marriage” has somehow been overlooked in all of human history.
            It was magically created by an Irrational coven of 5 Judges on the SC.

          • OhSoGood

            Marriage is a civil contract. Now more inclusive to the detriment of none.

          • meamsane

            Marriage I.E. Man-Woman. But enjoy your delusion.

          • OhSoGood

            Show me that in law, sweetie.

          • meamsane

            You didn’t specify what law you were asking about so, I suggest reading Romans ch. 1 in the NT. Also genesis ch 1-3 OT. An observable fact that men and women were made for each of specifically, not two men or 2 women. It is called natural law. That which is natural according to nature, or the nature of things.

          • OhSoGood

            That’s religion, not law.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            What’s “unique” about it? What can married couples do that unmarried couples can’t?

          • Amos Moses

            if you believe that then you need to change your avatar ……. you are a CINO ……

          • OhSoGood

            I’m no christian in any way… never claimed to be.

            Now tell me… since it’s obvious that you can’t point out how gay marriage is harmful, can you please list for me all the ways that marriage between a man and woman has changed?

            Come on Amos… you have to have something to offer! Just look at how much you complain! Surely you can back up your complaints! You can do it!

          • Amos Moses

            then you should change your avatar ………… and i already did ………..

          • OhSoGood

            No, you gave me all the reasons why you don’t like gay people. That’s not the same thing.

            Or are you really so simple minded you believe it is?

            PS: Have you looked at my avatar closely? I don’t think you have… you’re disappointing me, Amos. Here you act all smart and stuff, but I’m not so sure you are.

          • Amos Moses

            i did not give you any reason for my not liking homosexuals ……………. not what i wrote …. just your misreading …………

          • OhSoGood

            Amos dear, what you wrote never mentioned marriage. So far you have not pointed out a single negative consequence of gay marriage. I’m left seeing that you can’t list any, and for someone who screams and wails against gay marriage all the time, that’s funny… sad and pathetic, but funny.

          • Sharon_at_home

            The way you put Amos Moses down and are so rude is a reason why no one wants to discuss anything serious with you. Just because someone views things differently does not mean they are less intelligent than you, and this behavior shows that you, in essence, are more ignorant than he is. He doesn’t even reply to your insults for the Lord’s sake, give it up and discuss the topic(s) without the rudeness and maybe someone will take you more seriously.

          • OhSoGood

            I don’t put him down! I’m simply asking him to demonstrate what he says about gay marriage.

            When it comes to putting down, being rude, he is a king… few people denigrate gay folks the way he does and has for a very long time. He gets the respect he offers others. Why should he deserve anything more?

            He doesn’t back anything he says about gay marriage… because he can’t.

            When he stops with the insults, he’ll be received with more respect. Til then, no one has a reason to.

  • Liberal Elitist

    A rare display of insight and common sense on the part of Mr. Jeffress.

    • Amos Moses

      and it needs to be RARER ……..

      • Liberal Elitist

        Nope, we need to celebrate Jeffress’ rare moment of reality.

        • Amos Moses

          Nope …. he has lost touch with reality……

  • susan

    you cant stop a man sleeping with another man or a woman to a woman..but the unborn the inocient babies maybe we can stop the butchering ..let God deal with what we cant stop, its been with us since the begging of the holy bible

    • Amos Moses

      why …. both seem to be “settled law” according to hireling Jeffress ……….. and we should just accept it ………..

    • Grace Kim Kwon

      Right, no one can stop the land from committing Sodomy, but the Western culture demands homosexual sins to be called marriage and children to be taught to do the perversion. That’s the problem and Christians must keep fighting back. It’s a mental slavery by abnormal decadence of De-christianized well-fed West. Enough of mental illness.

  • Psychdude1

    The pastor is correct – it is the law per the edict of the Supreme Court. Legal means legal and that’s it. I agree that there is little Christians can do about it in terms of changing the law. Moving on does not mean “acceptance” or “celebrating” the behavior. Individual Christians must decide how we will respond to this court-imposed law just like we have learned to respond to abortion.

    • Matt Twofourtwonine

      We can push for an amendment to the constitution defining marriage as to match that a man should leave his father and mother and cleave unto his wife. Until that amendment is added there is little that Christians can do about it, I beg to differ with you but it is called Civil Disobedience. I am willing to be imprisoned for this conviction in my life. I will not bend to this, I will not compromise. This is not a standard that can be moved back and forth, this is a conviction, unmovable Prov 22:28 Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set.

      • Ambulance Chaser

        Exactly what do you intend to do to be civilly disobedient?

    • Grady Noland

      How strong is his belief in God that he can deem all of this “settled”?

      • Amos Moses

        Hey, if homomarriage is “settled” law ….. then abortion ….. which was “legalized” 40 years ago …… is 40 TIMES AS SETTLED ………. and hireling Jeffress point has no meaning …. as he has left the faith and is now a worldly hireling ………… and no more ….

        • Liberal Elitist

          A true Christian would concentrate on abortion, not attacking marriage equality.

          • BravesFan

            I’m not sure you’re really qualified to say who is and is not a “true Christian.”

          • Liberal Elitist

            Since each and every individual who identifies as Christian thinks he/she is a true Christian, it understandably takes someone from the outside looking in to determine true from false.

          • Amos Moses

            both lead to the destruction of society … and what would you know about chritianity…. hireling Jeffress has shown he has none….

          • meamsane

            Marriage “equality” is a fiction. Homosexual “marriage” is not equal.

  • tjb323

    I understand that the Gay Marriage issue and the abortion issue are touchy subjects both.
    However, I only have two words: Free Will
    We are free to sin, others are free to sin. I think we should all stop worrying about what others do and worry more about what we can change. Like just being the good neighboors that Jesus tells us to be. Change our communities by helping out others in them regardless of their faith or sins. If we spent more energy, time and money doing this there would be less issues to begin with. Stop lobbying to change laws that are the free will of the sinners and just focus on Laws that protect those who want to use their free will to practice following Jesus and his ways. Laws that protect the churches and Christians and allows them to practice their faith with out hinderence and reprise. We need to try to stop controlling everyone and focus on controling ourselves. The level of sin and lack of following the true word of God just in some of our own churches is enough to keep Christians busy for years. Love your neighboor as your self and love God with all your heart. Learn his will and follow his ways. That should be our only focus. God Bless all of you and may you always be a Blessing to others.

    • Amos Moses

      “We don’t have to respect their choices, just treat them with the respect that Jesus expects us too.”

      Treating them with respect includes NOT LYING TO THEM about the choices they have made with this supposed “free will” ………… and FYI, we as believers are NOT free to sin ……..

      • BravesFan

        Jesus called out sin and told people to go and SIN NO MORE. So Jesus expects us to do as He did. Jesus never slapped people on the back and said, “It’s all good man, just love, you do you.”

      • tjb323

        You are correct we should not lye to them. Treating someone with respect (ex: with politeness) is not the same as respecting their choices.

        And you are wrong, we as believers are free to sin. Jesus wants us to follow his ways, be more like him and not sin, to choose his ways over the devils. However, any believer at any time can choose to turn from Christ and sin. There are just consequenses for do so. Even true believers will sin sometimes, we are not perfect. Hence Jesus taking our punishment for us and dying for our sins. Take care and God bless.

        • Amos Moses

          ” However, any believer at any time can choose to turn from Christ and sin. ”

          Nope ……….. sorry ………. choosing to openly and egregiously sin is a sign of a non-regenerate person ….. you do not get to get up in the morning and say “i will just murder someone today” and then say you are saved ….. and then go to church on sunday, repent and then start all over on monday ………. no, when He chose us, we do not choose Him, all of our sins past, present and future were forgiven ……. but outward defiance of His way is a sign we were not saved to begin with and never were …….

      • Ambulance Chaser

        Once you’ve said your piece,why can’t you then drop the subject? What do you think harping on it further is going to do?

        • Amos Moses

          dont you have an ambulance to chase …..

    • Sharon_at_home

      I agree! That was an Awesome post! I’ve wanted to say the same thing so many times on these forums. God didn’t say Love some of your neighbors, and not others. He expects us to love everyone. Period. That’s why we need to allow others to sin; even expect others to sin really. When I see a sin, I think to myself that it is something that God will deal with. If I had to do some of the things that the LGBT’s wanted then I’d do them and ask for God’s forgiveness. He promised forgiveness to any believer who asks for it. It’s not a compromise to your beliefs because you are still asking for forgiveness as your belief tells you to if you believe that you sinned. Forgiveness is the key to getting along as far as I can see. That and loving everyone the same, with God being the top of your list. God bless!

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    Christian ministers shouldn’t talk safe like politicians… Sad.

    • ShemSilber

      Omein! Those ministers who want to add parishoners by practicing the condoning of those practices that the Scriptures forbid will find out that their talk was not so “safe,” after all. Praises be to Almighty Yahuwah that He rescued me from becoming one of them, in Yahushua’s (Jesus’) Name, omein.

  • Becky

    Rubbish sir, you need to get on. SSM might be the law of the land and if that’s what homosexuals want to do it’s between them and Almighty God. However, that’s not the issue really…the impact upon Christians (most especially business owners & government employees) has been brutal. It’s been explicitly demonstrated that the Christian religious rights indeed are limited and they’ve become second class citizens. Repeatedly, their religious rights have been overruled by homosexual rights…yeah…that’s what it should be called…homosexual rights. And, unless homosexuality (eg ssm) is being endorsed by every entity (eg fixer upper tv show, Barronelle Stutzman florist, Kim Davis court clerk, etc, etc, etc), they will militantly come after you and utterly destroy you, your family, your livelihood and they’ll see to it that you’re condemned as a “hateful”, “homophobic”, “bigot” amongst society. This isn’t about Christians not being able to “move on to another issue”…this is about Christians losing their religious rights. Thus far, that’s the choice Christians have been given…give up your religious rights amicably or suffer the consequences.

    • Liberal Elitist

      It would seem that those “Christians” who favor this sort of discrimination can be counted on the fingers of one hand, while the majority of “Christians” have no problem with treating gay couples and straight couples equally.

      • Becky

        The only discrimination on this issue is the discrimination of having religious beliefs according to the Holy Bible…the word of God. I can tell you that there are well over 30 cases of Christian business owners that have been sued and sacked/or lost their business/livelihood for simply exercising their religious beliefs.

        • Liberal Elitist

          Discriminatory behavior towards gay couples is not an exercise of religious beliefs. It’s just discriminatory behavior.

          • Amos Moses

            Discrimination is avoiding stupid acts and the consequences ……….

          • Liberal Elitist

            Then, relocate your “Christian” business to a state that condones discriminatory behavior.

          • Amos Moses

            i will discriminate right where i am ………..

          • Liberal Elitist

            I think not.

      • Steven

        while the majority of “Christians” have no problem with treating…
        That’s why we read in scripture things like: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom –Or– Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

        the majority of “Christians”
        After the whole Obama’s a Christian fiasco, I think we need to take a step back and determine what “Christian” means. Heck! I’d even heard of people arguing that Hitler was a Christian.

        Christianity is not progressive in nature. No matter what the so called Christian thinks, it all goes back to Jesus Christ and His Apostles.

        • Liberal Elitist

          Hitler was a Christian. Not a good one, but a Christian nonetheless.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            You obviously have NO idea what a Christian is.

          • Amos Moses

            No …. he was an occultist ………….

          • Liberal Elitist

            Yes, I do believe he was Catholic.

          • Amos Moses

            i do believe he pretended to be to usurp the church ….. but he was an occultist …. a follower of HP Blavatsky and you cannot be both ………… and he was much closer to your position on issues than christianity ……..

          • Liberal Elitist

            Hitler’s views would more closely reflect your and other Christian militants’ views.

          • Amos Moses

            Nope …. as he was not christian and sought to destroy the church and those of the church opposed him …………. so not even close ….. that BTW is your position …………

          • Amos Moses

            i will give you that he was Jesuit trained and influenced ….. but the Jesuits are not christians …… despite their name ………..

    • james blue

      Do you think employers should be compelled by law to make accommodations for our faith?

      Do you think it should be legal for a non Christian to refuse goods, services, employment or housing to Christians if they disagree with our faith?

      I’m not asking what the law “IS” — I’m asking what YOU what you think it “SHOULD BE”

    • Ambulance Chaser

      All of which has nothing to do with whether same sex marriage is legal or not.

  • TheBBP

    Law of the land is one thing, whether or not it is a sin is another. Dr Jeffress would do well to clarify his stance. There are lots of things that are legal that are still sinful. This world’s laws do not make any of it right in the eyes of the Lord. We are to obey the law as commanded, however we are also to hold true to the Word. Just because it’s legal does not mean that we must condone it or give up our religious liberties over it.

    • james blue

      I have lost exactly zero liberties, religious or otherwise, because of gay marriage. What liberties have you lost?

      • Amos Moses

        None are more blinded than those who choose not to see ……………… none are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free …….. none are more hopelessly enslavers than those who push others into the enslavement of depravity …… you think you have lost nothing ….. but the neighbors you are enslaving by your support have lost everything ………….. and you could not care less ….. it would seem …………..

        • OhSoGood

          Still waiting for you to show me how gay marriage has harmed anyone, Amos… you sure are a disappointment. You act like you know what you’re talking about, and then BOOM… you fall flat and can’t demonstrate anything.

          How sad.

          • Amos Moses

            and can cut and paste it for you again in case you cant find it ……

          • OhSoGood

            You never did… just reasons why you don’t like homosexuals.

            You’re a good show off, but you’re really not that smart.

            Here’s the meaningless non-answer you gave:

            “it is destroying society ……… it is endangering children …….. it is encouraging lawlessness ……… as it is lawlessness ………….”

            So sad, Amos. And here I thought you made it to at least the 8th grade.

          • Amos Moses

            “You never did… just reasons why you don’t like homosexuals.”

            Nope ….. just reason you do not want to accept ……….. but AGAIN …………

            to start with ….. it is a lie …. to base anything on a lie is destructive …… the degree of health problems that then translate to the rest of society are well known ….. homosexuals tend to die 30-40 years sooner than the rest of the population ….. this attitude that it is healthy and normal corrupts children who will then die sooner ……….. and lawlessness ….. all you have to do is look at the election we are in the middle of and the angst of the people who cannot now deal with the truth of the defeat …. and they are all on the side of the losers who want homomarriage …..

            so no hate of anything accept from you ….. who does not want to accept the truth ….. the truth is abhorent to you ……..

          • OhSoGood

            I haven’t asked you for any reasons, little Amos. I asked you for specific examples of how gay marriage is harmful. If all of what you say were “truth” I, or someone I know, would have suffered from it. Interesting that no one has. You know what? I don’t think you thought of any of that on your own anyway… I think you have to regurgitate what you pick up from other anti-gay folks because you just don’t get out enough… have never lived a rich enough life to know if it’s true or not. Yeah, that sounds about right. After all, I asked you to tell me not about homosexuality, but harm from gay marriage. You haven’t done so. Why

            Because you can’t do it. Even in this, all you give is your opinion. Nothing that can be reproduced or verified. It has nothing to do with marriage, just homosexuality. I’m not asking you your opinion on homosexuality, little Amos… I never have. You share that with everyone who will listen. We know how obsessed with gay sex you are.

            How is gay marriage harmful. The gay folks aren’t going away because dear little Amos doesn’t like them. So harping on it doesn’t say anything about marriage. Tell me how gay marriage is harmful.

            Or… maybe you’re just not smart enough to see the difference between the two? Yup… I’m certainly starting to believe it.

      • TheBBP

        I have seen brothers and sisters in Christ lose their businesses for declining to take part in Gay Weddings while it is OK for a fashion designer to outright publicly declare to design anything for Trump’s wife simply because she’s his wife and somehow that is OK.

        • Liberal Elitist

          The fashion designer never would have brought it up if a very small number of so-called “Christian” business owners hadn’t decided to make a spectacle of themselves in the hopes of garnering their 15 minutes of fame.

          • TheBBP

            Regardless of how you want to spin it, she said it and the media didn’t take to the airwaves to proclaim how she is a hateful bigot.

            The thing is, she has every right to deny business to Melania Trump if she does not agree with that family’s politics. On that same token, a baker or a florist should be able to deny to service a wedding that conflicts with their beliefs.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Yes, because “being Melania Trump” is not a protected class. Sexual orientation is.

        • Ambulance Chaser

          That has nothing to do with whether same sex marriages are legal.

        • james blue

          That’s not because of gay marriage, that’s because of big government anti discrimination and public accommodation laws, the same big government laws that make it illegal to refuse to bake a wedding cake for a Christian wedding.

    • Royce E. Van Blaricome

      You’d do well not to take the bait from James as I did with the same question. It’ll only be an exercise in futility and you’ll wind up realizing you should’ve exercised Matt. 7:6.

  • Guest254

    Ministers of the Gospel of Jesus are not supposed to have opinions, just stick to what God’s Word says.

    • Royce E. Van Blaricome

      I would add that goes with ALL followers of Christ who are Image Bearers and Ambassadors. We should only be repeating what the Lord has said on matters of a spiritual-nature.

  • Woody

    What happened to him? Did George Soros throw a few thousand (or million) at his church?

    • james blue

      Nothing happened to him. He is a republican partisan political animal above all and he will support the republican candidate view.

      There are very few true principled “value voters” out there and this election shone a light on which ones are and which ones are not.

  • Steven

    Christians should move on to another issue…

    No!!!
    Christians should stay with the message of salvation.

    2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

    I don’t know of anyplace in the Bible where it says we should move on to a different topic. The message is always the same.

    The world is going to follow the pied piper (Satan) to destruction. Our responsibility is to be the voice of reason; even though it’s rejected.

    • Royce E. Van Blaricome

      Jeffress has made it abundantly clear that he’s not near as interested in the message of Salvation, or even what God has to say in general, as he is in keeping political power with the GOP and even more his support of Trump. He’s got skin in the game now. BIG time. And if Trump turns out to be an embarrassment, he knows all those words

    • Amos Moses

      it says we should shake the dust from our heels as a testament against those …… those as in hireling Jeffress ……………

      • Roy Hobs

        Amen.

    • Roy Hobs

      “Christians should stay with the message of salvation….”
      Exactly right! And ‘marriage’ is part of our Salvation. We did ourselves a huge disservice when we agreed to any form of “Essentials” theory/teaching. All of the Word of God is Essential!
      The teaching of the “Essentials” is opium for the masses i.e., the broad road.

    • OhSoGood

      What will you do Steven?

      How do you foresee getting this back before SCOTUS? What harm can you demonstrate that will put this back before them? If you can’t demonstrate harm, you’ve no chance of putting it back before the justices… “I don’t like it” or “I believe it is in violation of ‘nature’s god’s’ laws” won’t work.

      How will you do it?

      • Steven

        I don’t understand your questions in regards to what I posted. My statements are not a reflection of solving the downward spiral of society and the government. Just to continue being a voice of reason in an irrational world.

        • OhSoGood

          When Jeffress stated that you should move on you said “No!”, which is an indication that you’d continue the fight. I asked what you would do.

          Apparently… nothing.

          • Steven

            Hmm…I see where you are coming from. That gives me something to think about. Thanks for the clarity.

          • Amos Moses

            Why fight what will self-destruct ………………

          • OhSoGood

            If you honestly believed that, you wouldn’t be squawking incessantly about it.

          • Amos Moses

            you came here to talk about it but you want the opposition to shut up ……… interesting way to get your way ….. i should stop talking unless i agree with you ………….

          • OhSoGood

            I wanted to talk about the evidence you have that gay marriage is harmful… but you have yet to offer anything but generalizations and opinion, backed by nothing.

          • Amos Moses

            i have given several examples and you dismiss them …. you dismiss the evidence ….. so your statement “I wanted to talk about the evidence you have that gay marriage is harmful.” is a lie ………… and you are a liar ….. you want approval of depravity …… but if you want me to repost them i will …………

          • OhSoGood

            You have given vague generalizations like “it’s lawlessness”… or “it’s harmful to children”… both of which are meaningless without any evidence to back them. You offer no evidence because you have no evidence.

            No one in the US can demonstrate any harm from gay marriage.

          • Amos Moses

            “No one in the US can demonstrate any harm from gay marriage”

            not if you ignore the evidence ……….

          • OhSoGood

            You offer nothing about marriage, only the physical acts of irresponsible people.

            Are those two things really the same in your mind?

            Really? Are you so incapable of thought that sex and marriage are equal to your mind?

          • Amos Moses

            “You offer nothing about marriage, only the physical acts of irresponsible people.”

            homomarriage is just another irresponsible act ….. and just as i said …. you dismiss the evidence …..

          • OhSoGood

            What you put forward has nothing to do with marriage. It affects people regardless of marital status.

            Why can’t you show any harmful effects of gay marriage? Why do you have to devolve back to the acts of individuals for harm? I don’t dismiss the evidence, it’s horrible that so many are so irresponsible, but it is not the result of gay marriage.

            You’re obviously not very bright if you can’t see the difference between the two. Personally, I believe you can see the difference, but know you can’t demonstrate any harm from two gay people getting married, so you just keep harping on gay sex.

            Very shallow minded.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            If someone’s argument against gay marriage is “gay sex is bad”…..that’s not even an argument. Do they think that if there’s no gay marriage, there will be no gay people and no gay sex?

    • David

      The message of the bible is clear, homosexuality and same sex marriage is not an issue. Read matthew 22:40 and try to understand its true meaning.

      • Steven

        I’m sorry, but you are dangerously wrong in your conjecture. I’m not sure how or where you obtain the notion that Matthew 22:40 abrogates sexual sin, or any sin for that matter, which is clearly marked throughout the Bible. However, in all humbleness, I’d be interested in a synopsis of how you came to this conclusion.

        What has been normalized in this world doesn’t change God’s position. Remember! Jesus didn’t come into the world to destroy the law, but to fulfill it. Everyone will be judged. Sorry, but your understanding of what is acceptable has a destructive outcome.

    • Grace Kim Kwon

      Yes, the message of repentance of sins including homosexuality and the faith in Jesus Christ.

  • TheBBP

    I’d also seek to give Dr Jeffress the benefit of a doubt before rushing to judge. We know VERY well from this recent election cycle how the media has absolutely no qualms about stretching the truth to frame whatever narrative that they want.

    Go to youtube and look up “Robert Jeffress vs Neil Cazares-Thomas”. It is just one example of Dr Jeffress’ stances on the subject. There are plenty more to find.

    • Amos Moses

      Discernment is not knowing right from wrong …… it is knowing right from almost right ….. Spurgeon ….. Jeffress is only almost right …………..

  • Rosemary Martin

    When I was little sodomy was against the law, now it is a right? We need to band together to get the homosexual and transgender agenda out of our public schools. I do believe along with Islam and the gay pride insanity our schools are in deep trouble. Also Common core has to go. All liberal evil trying to take the souls of our children. The gay adults will be judged by God but we have to save the children from their agenda.

    • Roy Hobs

      I respect your passion/mission, but the Public Schools are beyond repair. Cultural Marxist training centers.
      If Christians would pull out their children in favor of home schooling, public education would be more of a joke than they are now and the whole system would collapse. Schools would look like prisons. They almost already do. Christians need to “come out from among them”

      • Amos Moses

        Cultural Marxist = Dogmatic Secularism ……………..

    • OhSoGood

      “When some folks were little we had slaves, and now their freedom is a right?!”

      Too funny!

  • sammy13

    We can respect the law, and follow the law but we do not need to endorse and support the behavior protected by the law. Sort of rendering unto Caesar but not endorsing the man.

    • OhSoGood

      Nobody’s asking for your support or endorsement.

      • Amos Moses

        then WHY are you here if not to seek approval ………. another LIE …………

  • Mark Collins

    Before the SCOTUS decided Sodomite Unions were acceptable and normal against the will of the people, SCOTUS had to decide that laws against Sodomy were unconstitutional. Unfortunately, those Sodomy laws were created by the same men who wrote the US Constitution. We have put way to much power in the Supreme Court and those chickens will come home to roost on the left. They won’t like it when it does.

    The laws of Nature and of Nature’s GOD cannot be defied by Man’s law. Any law crafted by humans that goes against God’s law delegitimizes the government that crafted it.

    • Amos Moses

      Two words ……….. Ray Buckley …………..

    • OhSoGood

      Your god, your idea of nature’s god, is not required for marriage, and is not US or state law.

      Your god doesn’t set the rules for the US of A.

      • Amos Moses

        sure He does ……. and He allows the unrighteous to be destructive of themselves …….. and that is all homomarriage is ……… personal destruction ………

        • OhSoGood

          Uh huh… and Sasquatch mows my lawn.

      • Mark Collins

        Then your god does?

  • Royce E. Van Blaricome

    I bet Blacks are awful glad that Jeffress didn’t have the exposure he does now back when it was “settled Law” that they weren’t People or when they couldn’t interracially marry!! What an idiotic statement!!

    More over, why move on to Abortion? My goodness, has that not been “settled Law of the Land” a whole lot longer!!

    All Jeffress is doing is revealing his heart every time he opens his mouth. He sure ain’t being an image bearer or ambassador of Christ!!

  • buckrod73

    It is settled law alright; God said it is wrong and He is the lawgiver. Man can call it “settled law,” but actually we have reached an impasse. God’s law vs man’s law. Chose wisely!

    • OhSoGood

      But… your god don’t matter in civil marriage.

      • ShemSilber

        Almighty Yahuwah and His Son, the Master Yahushua, whom Christians call “Lord Jesus,” have dominion EVERYWHERE, even if you go to the moon or Neptune or Alderbaron. Deal with it, either now or in the day of your visitation by the Master Yahushua, in the Name of the Master Yahushua, who formed us all in our mothers’ wombs, omein.

        • OhSoGood

          Yes, I know the religious view… fact is, it has no bearing on the legal processes in the US of A.

          It is nothing more than your choice.

          • ShemSilber

            So your choice is to live in rebellion and refusal to accept the free salvation and the makeover by the Master Yahushua in order to live a truly productive eternity, and thus land yourself in line with Azazel, following him into Gei-Hinnom to die the second death. That’s a sad choice, my friend, and that IS NOT RELIGION but facts of life. The Master Yahushua GAVE you freedom of choice, and He will not take it away from you. That is His word to you, not mine. Your choice.

          • OhSoGood

            Okee dokee.

            Now, how are you going to stop gay marriage?

          • ShemSilber

            I won’t, but the Master Yahushua will. Soon these darkest of all Dark Ages will be ended and the Age to Come will be here, with the Master Yahushua ruling the earth from Jerusalem, ISRAEL (Isaiah 2:1-4; Micah 4:1-4). The kingdoms of this world will have become the Kingdom of Yahuwah and of His Messiah (Revelation 11:15), and His Torah will be the law of the land, and we will have peace and productivity worldwide as a result of His reign. HalleluYAH and omein!

          • OhSoGood

            Sure he will… uh huh… sure…

          • Amos Moses

            No need to stop a fail enterprise ….. it fails on its own ………

          • OhSoGood

            Then why harp on about it constantly?

          • Amos Moses

            you are the one here doing the harping …… quit playing your sad song in a christian forum and it will not bother you ………..

          • OhSoGood

            No, I’m the one asking you to explain your harping with solid examples of harm that has been caused by gay marriage. So far, you’re unable to do so.

          • CSN

            You’re in the wrong forum…go back to your Gay Rights Forum and speak from there.

          • ShemSilber

            We are living in a temporary age, giving us time to decide if we will live in the permanent Kingdom that is coming. There will be no perversion of the Master Yahushua’s Torah in that world.

            Nobody has to believe the truth in order for it to exist, and no lie is the truth regardless of who believes it. You will find out in your day of visitation just HOW the Master Yahushua will cause all evil to burn in Gei-Hinnom, including whoever refuses to accept the Master’s gift of everlasting life. That is what is meant by the terms “second death” in Revelation 2:11; 20:6, 14 and 21:8. Anyone who will perpetuate evil will join the devil in Gei-Hinnom, the Lake of Fire made for the devil and the rest of the demons (Matthew 25:41) and become ashes, never to rise again.

            How much better to choose life in the Master Yahushua rather than cling to evil and die with it? YOUR CHOICE, for the Master will not take away the freedom of choice that He gave you. That is HIS word to you, not mine, omein.

          • David

            When do you stop doing evil? Don’t you know that bearing false witness made it to the famous ten?

            Read up on Matthew 22:40 and try to understand its true meaning and its implications for the issue at hand.

          • ShemSilber

            Matthew 22:35-40 gives us the two main commandments,which are the foundation for learning and keeping the whole Torah. First is to love Yahuwah our Creator with all our heart, mind, and being, and the second is to love neighbor as self. If you are learning and doing those two, you will keep the rest of it, including to reject and repent from all sexual perversion, which means recognizing that the Master Yahushua made us male and female for a reason, and forbids homosexuality because it flies in the face of His order to Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply. That is a true witness, and we violate that principle to our own peril. 1Corinthians 6:9-11 says, “…and such WERE some of you, but you are WASHED…” So Paul taught some to leave their homosexuality and effeminacy, to “straighten up and fly right,” and they were thereby corrected from their error and have been given everlasting life through the Master Yahushua, omein.

          • David

            Sorry my friend, your infusing the meaning of scripture with your own prejudice. Don’t you know you are not supposed to add anything to God’s word?
            What you believe to be sexual perversion is something made up by Thomas Acquinas around 1300 (+/- 100 years).
            Even the copyright holders of the OT (Judaism) believe that sex and pleasure should come together and you should satisfy your partner and provide pleasure. Quite the opposite of the prude Thomas Acquinas infused Christianity.
            What is sexually wrong or good is defined by the two commandments Love God and Love your Neighbour. Adultery is wrong, as you wrong your partner. Sex within an Idolatrous context is wrong as it violates the Love God command.
            If God made us male and female for a reason, why are more baby boys born than baby girls? And that is something of every time, every geography and every culture (it is not a statistical aberration because of for example the Chinese one child policy).
            God told us that it is not good for a man to be alone (Genisis 2), and therefore created a suitable partner for all. For most of them it is a woman, for a few that suitable partner is a man. (or the other way around for Lesbians).
            When it comes to Paul’s effeminacy, etc. you might want to know that those words had a total different meaning in those days. You can’t apply current day meaning of words to the context of two thousand years ago. Effeminate at that point of time referred to man that where to much interested in woman.
            1 Corinthian 6 has nothing to say about homosexuality.

          • David

            I prefer Isaiah 56, where he shares with us that God will create a monument in heaven for homosexuals greater than having children…

          • ShemSilber

            OY! If that’s not twisting the Scriptures to one’s own destruction, which Simon Peter warns us against (2Peter 3:14-16), I don’t know what is. That chapter in NO WAY give any justification for sexual perversion. Shame on the twit who put you up to this, namely, the devil himself, the chief pervert of all creation, soon to be banished to the pit where he belongs by the Master Yahushua for his rebellion against his Creator, omein.

          • David

            Sexual perversion is only your opinion and bias.

            I mentioned before that Isaiah 56 refers to Eunuchs. It doesn’t exclude any category of Eunuchs. We also know from historical evidence (and matthew 19) that there are three types of Eunuchs, of which one refers to what we call homosexuals today.

            It is you that Simon Peter is warning against.

          • ShemSilber

            As I have already said to a later post by you, tell that to the Master Yahushua who formed us all in our mothers’ wombs. You will see what His response is before He sends you to join your master Azazel, the devil, in the fires of Gei-Hinnom that were made for him and his fellow demons. Better to humble yourself before Him now and to accept His makeover of your life, so that you quit prostituting yourself before Azazel, the father of lies, murder and destruction, in Yahushua’s Name, omein.

          • David

            A lot of words, but no substantiation of anything. Try again, try harder…

          • buckrod73

            I don’t think you understand. God has set choices before us as individuals and nations. We can chose blessing or cursing; He has given us that thru free will. However; we as Christians will point out the truth of Scripture, and the public square can then decide, kinda like Sodom and Gomorrah decided, or not.

          • OhSoGood

            Your deity gave me nothing.

          • Amos Moses

            he gave you life, breath, air to breath, water and food, a job, a family, ……. would take too long to list it all …… and He did it knowing you would be ungrateful ……………… and spit in His face ………..

          • OhSoGood

            Come on Amos! Surely you can detail the harm from gay marriage! Or is it all just bluster? Yeah, that’s probably it… nothing to show but wailing and gnashing of teeth.

          • johndoe

            Nobody on these forums can detail any harm due to gay marriage.

          • Amos Moses

            it is plain for you to see if you do not reject truth ……… and you do reject it ………

          • OhSoGood

            You’ve shown no truth. But that’s OK… it’s not your fault.

          • ShemSilber

            You have the Master’s permission to remain in denial of the truth, but you will know in the end that you believed a lie for which you proved yourself willing to die rather than to accept the free gift of salvation from the Master. What a pity, says the Master Yahushua to you, for He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that we should all turn from our evils and live. He gave you your mortal existence, and it is your choice whether to accept a second birth to everlasting life or to die the second death, which is the end of existence for whoever goes there. Then they will no longer be on their “high horse,” but gone. In the Name of the Master Yahushua, omein.

          • OhSoGood

            I need no permission from any deity.

            I’m very familiar with the unproven myths of christianity… meaningless all.

          • ShemSilber

            You are right that Christianity is full of unproven myths, for sure. But is OhSoGood his/her/its own deity? You will find out otherwise when you cannot save yourself from certain circumstances, and I feel for you when you do, just as the Master Yahushua has no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that we all turn from our rebellion against Him and accept His gift of everlasting life, omein.

          • David

            Love is the fulfilment of the law…. Being it between man and wife, between man and man, or between wife and wife

          • ShemSilber

            The reason love is the fulfillment of the Torah (Instruction, rather than Law) is that love is living according to the Torah. From Genesis to Revelation, the Master Yahushua equates love with the KEEPING of the Torah, not the flaunting of it. You don’t believe it now, but you will come to know it, says Yahuwah Almighty, in Yahushua’s Name, omein.

          • David

            The Torah does not say that homosexual love is excluded. That is your invention.

            Homosexuality is not forbidden in the Torah. Temple prostitution and fertility rituals are. I refer to Lev 18, 22.

          • ShemSilber

            Once the watchman has spoken, and I’m sure others have given you the Master Yahushua’s (Lord Jesus’) warnings in the same vein as He has warned you through me, then it is up to you to heed or to ignore the warnings that you have heard. Sneer and scoff at the warning, and your blood is on your own head (Ezekiel chapters 3 and 17). Your choice, in the Name of the Master Yahushua, omein.

          • David

            Warning against what? following God’s word?

          • Palsgraf’s Scale

            I’ll take that risk. If I do suffer the eternal consequences for my belief, I’ll happily take it. I’d rather be punished for something I truly believed in than fake it for the reward. There is no integrity in that approach.

          • ShemSilber

            Yahuwah is everybody’s Creator. Whether one is Jewish, Islamic, Christian, or whatever description, He formed us in our mothers’ wombs to give us this mortal life. It’s up to us if we will accept His offer of everlasting life, living in true peace and productivity forever, through the Master Yahushua (Lord Jesus). You and all others will have ample opportunity to accept or reject the offer, in Yahushua’s Name, omein.

          • Chance Meagre

            No, his choice is to take the Christian approach, recognize the source of a government’s authority and abide by that government’s rules. Yours is to hold yourself in defiance from that authority and then insist everyone else join you. Get a clue.

          • Amos Moses

            History seems lost on you ………. the legal system came from christian roots in this country ………. your denial to the contrary ………..

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Whether that’s true or not is irrelevant. We followed case law and statutes, and we don’t ignore modern jurisprudence in favor of our best guess as to what the law might have been 200 years ago.

          • ShemSilber

            Ah, but we DO ignore Almighty Yahuwah, who gave us life and to whom both we and our governments have to answer for how we used this life in the White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15), and whether we had a love of the truth that is revealed to those who have a heart to look for it and dig out its treasures.

            Over 50 years ago, when I was talking to a Taiwanese foreign student, I said to him, “When you say ‘lawyer,’ I can’t tell if you’re saying ‘lawyer’ or ‘liar,’ and he rejoined with, “So what’s the difference?” Accurate words, nu?

          • Ambulance Chaser

            No, not accurate. In fact, none of what you said is accurate, including how you insult my profession so casually and ignorantly.

            As for the rest of it, what point, exactly, are you trying to make?

          • ShemSilber

            You will see what the point is, eventually, when you no longer have the blinders on. The Master Yahushua (Lord Jesus) will give you eyes to see and ears to hear, and may it be that you use them accordingly, to His honor and glory, and never mind me, for I am nothing, the same as you, omein.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            That’s nice. Completely irrelevant though.

          • ShemSilber

            Sez you. We all have many “facts of life” (not “religion,” which is full of lies mixed with a small sprinkle of truth) that are quite relevant to our lives, and I hope you change your mind about getting ready for your day of visitation. Isaiah 45:23 applies, in Yahushua’s Name, omein.

          • Amos Moses

            “We follow case law and statutes”

            which is the method for “what the law might have been 200 years ago.” …………

          • Ambulance Chaser

            No. There is no requirement that courts rule in the manner they believe the founders would have.

          • Amos Moses

            Nope ……… there is not ….. and the evidence is that they have said they do NOT have to only rely on the constitution ….. did you need the direct quotes …………..

          • OhSoGood

            No deity needed in US law… all mythologies are equal.

          • Amos Moses

            so is that a scientific, theological or personal opinion ……………

          • OhSoGood

            Legal.

          • David

            Can you explain how many of the ten commandments made it into law?

          • Amos Moses

            Red Herring ………. but pretty much all of the last 5 ……..

          • TheKingOfRhye

            The last 5? I don’t think so. Three, at best, are in our present laws. (and are things that are also illegal pretty much everywhere, including non-Christian societies.) #10 is “thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s etc, etc”…..I don’t think we’ve ever had any laws against coveting anything. I don’t know how that would be even possible.

          • Amos Moses

            Coveting leads to stealing, robbery, and numerous other crimes ……….. desire for things we do not have nor deserve and then seeking to fulfill that desire ………

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Is there, or has there ever been a law against coveting? No. It would be impossible to enforce. If you’re going to say that that commandment covers “stealing, robbery, and numerous other crimes,”…..well, that’s covered by #8. And stealing is forbidden by every culture in history, pretty much.

            You said the last 5….I’ll give you #6 and #8, and #9 but only in a court of law. #5….OK, honor your parents….good idea, sure, but is it a law? #7, adultery…..less than half the states still have laws against it, and those are rarely enforced. For example, adultery is still illegal in Massachusetts, but the last conviction for it was in 1983.

          • Amos Moses

            Actually they all begin with the violation of the first five …. even the first one ….. placing ones desires before God ….. it leads to everything that the other 9 talk about ….. as a matter of being taken to court for the last five ….. parents are held responsible for the acts of their children ….. adultery used to be …. maybe not so much any more ……. but an article from womansday last year …… “23 Jun 2015 … Believe it or not, it’s illegal to cheat in many states. In fact, some adultery laws call for jail time and hefty fines for cheating.” ……. and it is still rounds for divorce ……..

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Yeah, what I was saying, there are laws on the books in those states, (21 of them, I think it was) but they’re rarely, if it all, enforced.

          • David

            So why not the first five? As these have to do with God.

          • Amos Moses

            as i said in another post ….. the violation of the first one leads to all of the others being violated ………….. there have been laws in various states about idolatry and blasphemy …..

          • David

            But not in the constitution…

          • Palsgraf’s Scale

            That doesn’t make the christian influence something to promulgate. Modern democracy came from an inherently unequal system, that doesn’t mean we should go back to denying those who don’t own land the right to vote.

          • Amos Moses

            “that doesn’t mean we should go back to denying those who don’t own land the right to vote.”

            yeah, it probably does …… look at the mess we have now …………

          • Palsgraf’s Scale

            Ah, ok. So you hate democracy and freedom. Gotchya.

          • Amos Moses

            first …. since we are talking about history and freedom …… the US ….. (you must have gone to a public school) …….. is NOT a democracy …… it is a republic ….. and if you do not know the difference you should go look it up ……….. Got it ………..

          • Palsgraf’s Scale

            I didn’t claim it the US was a democracy, just that you hate democracy. The U.S. is a republic that is founded on democratic ideals. A democratic republic. Democracy is a fundamental part of a democratic republic, because it defines the fundamental process by which the representatives are selected.

            You must have gone to a parochial school. You argue meaningless quibbles instead of the call of the question.

          • Amos Moses

            we do not live in a democracy ….. so not relevant ………

          • Palsgraf’s Scale

            Our system is inherently rooted in democratic choice of representatives. Denying the influence of democracy in a democratic republic is to deny half the point of a democratic republic. Its part and parcel with the basic tenant of our governance.

            You’re fine with having representatives, but you hate the part where we democratically elect them. You hate people having a choice in their government.

          • Amos Moses

            Nope ….. we live in a representative republic …….. again …. if you do not understand the difference ….. look it up ……….. it is not a democracy ………….

          • Palsgraf’s Scale

            Oxford Dictionary
            When
            the complete authority and power is derived by citizens and the
            government is run by elected officials, then the form of government is
            called as A democratic republic government.

            Cambridge Dictionary
            A type of government which had combined elements of democracy and republican government systems.

            Merriam-Webster Dictionary
            A political system in which citizens have power but it is run by elected representatives.

            All of which describe the US system.

            Ignoring the role of democracy in the US system is idiotic. The Roman Empire functioned as an autocratic republic. Democracy under the Roman system was not present.

            Democracy is present in the Democratic Republic system, regardless of how you slice it. And you hate it. You would prefer to disenfranchise the people and leave the power in the hands of a few autocrats based on your comments that the electorate should go back to unequal representation.

          • Amos Moses

            a democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what is for dinner …………. a republic is a well armed sheep contesting the vote ………. a democracy is 50.1% telling the other 49.9% what to do …………. maybe you live in a democracy ….. but the people of the US live in a republic …..

          • Palsgraf’s Scale

            A republic has nothing to do with firearms ownership. There are republics throughout the world and history with strict civilian weapons restrictions. That first quote is nonsensical, and I think you threw it out because you didn’t know any others.

            What you’re describing is a direct democracy. You’re right. We don’t live in one of those. We live in a democratic republic. Where democracy is foundational in how we select our representatives.

            I’m starting to think you aren’t even an American.

        • David

          and formed some of us as homosexual, born so from mothers womb… Matthew 19, 11&12

          • ShemSilber

            You make Almighty Yahuwah and His Son, the Master Yahushua as giving out falsehood, for homosexuality is condemned in the Scriptures as worthy of death in Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13, and 1Corinthians 6:9-11 says it will keep one out of the Kingdom. The Master did not make anyone a pervert in one act and then in another condemn them to death.

            The “eunuch” of which the Master spoke is one who remains unmarried, not engaging in sexual activity, but is totally occupied with doing the work of the Gospel.

            Shame on such twisting of the Word so that one can go against the Torah, as if there were no consequences. The Master gives us a choice because we CAN make the choice NOT to be homosexual or any other perversion of His creation, omein.

          • David

            Sorry sweetheart, but you are factually wrong, many times.

            Both Leviticus 18 & 22 speak of sexual acts within the context of idolatry, which violates the Love God command. Why else would both Lev 18 & 22 refer to Molech worshipping? Temple prostitution (male and female) and other fertility rites are sinful. Outside of that context it is perfectly fine, unless it amounts to adultery, as that is a violation of the love your neighbour command. Even the most vocal anti-gay bible scholar will admit this.

            And 1 Corinthians 6 has nothing to do with homosexuality either, although some later translations have made it into that. It only proves the bias of the translator. We still don’t know what the original words used in 1 Corinthians 6 mean.

          • ShemSilber

            It is not I whom you have to set straight, for the Master Yahushua has been in the process of doing that for the last 70+ years, especially the last 10 or so.

            You will have to present your comments to the Master Yahushua who gave these instructions. I am sure that He will have a proper appreciation for your correction. One of two things I suggest for you:

            (1) Turn away from your corruption of the Torah that the Master Yahushua gave Moses for our benefit and not for a burden (1Corinthians 10:4; Hebrews 11:24-26; 1John 5:3, or

            (2) prepare yourself for some intense heat that will soon reduce you to ashes under the feet of those whom the Master has made righteous (Malachi 4:1-3), for the Word says that the wages of sin is death, not everlasting life in hell-fire (Romans 6:23), but while the window is open, that free gift of everlasting life is open to one and all who turn from their evil and to the Master for His makeover of our character (Ezekiel chapters 18 & 33).

            Blessed be the Name of our Master Yahushua, who is zealous to save every sinner who turns to Him so that He can show us how to “straighten UP and fly RIGHT,” omein and omein!

          • David

            Please show me where Jesus tells us that homosexuals is a sin? or where the Torah says that homosexuality is a sin? Because it doesn’t.

            Love God and Love your Neighbour. There is nothing more to it. The rest is invented by humans. And that is what Jesus referred to.

          • ShemSilber

            Hogwash. See the response the Master gave me for your next comment.

          • David

            The response was not applicable…

          • ShemSilber

            Never mind me, I am a nothing and a nobody, just as you are, without the Master Yahushua. Present your arguments to Him when you appear before the White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15), and then you will find out just how applicable the words are that He gave me for you. Your choice, for He will not remove your freedom of choice, per Deuteronomy 30:19-20, omein.

          • David

            I am not afraid to face my saviour. Because I know I will be judged righteously. And Jesus himself told us what that means:
            Because no bad fruit can come from a good tree, and no good fruit can come from a bad tree.
            If a homosexual relationship brings good to the couple, brings good to the direct environment of that coupe, and brings good to society, the relationship itself can not be wrong.

            However, if somebody teaches a message that is cold and hurtful for the group of people addressed by that message, and that message doesn’t bring any good, you can safely assume that the message and its messenger itself is wrong and sinful.

            So now go and sin no more…

          • ShemSilber

            The whole LGBTQ-whatever propaganda, along with prenatal murder, is a product NOT either of human rights nor approved by Yahuwah Almighty, but they are and always have been the product of the sick imagination of Azazel, the devil, the same one who uses the alias Allah, as the false god of Islam, to destroy mankind. They fly in the face of the commandment from the Master Yahushua Himself to Adam and Eve after He created them, (Genesis 1:28; John 1:1-18; 8:56-58; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:1-2): “And Elohim blessed them, and Elohim said to them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth…”

            I don’t write this because I expect you to believe it, but because you will remember it in the day of your visitation, when the Master Yahushua has taken the blinders off your eyes and has shown you that you have chosen a forbidden way of life, to your shame and to the shame of the parents by whom you were born. We all need to heed the Master’s directive, “Go and sin no more,” and leaving homosexuality or any other sexual perversion is included in stopping the sin that you insist is right.

            REMEMBER that in the day of your visitation, when you meet the Master Yahushua face-to-face, and I pray you will have repented and learned from Him, by then, to “STRAIGHTEN UP and fly RIGHT,” in the Name of the Master Yahushua our Redeemer who will clean all who are willing to be cleansed from all our sins and give them everlasting life in peace and true productivity on a renewed earth and in the renewed heavens, for it is in His Name that this is written, omein.

          • David

            If you read Genesis 2:18 you will read that God believes it is not good for a man to be alone. As we already know form Matthew 19:11&12 that a gay man (born so from mothers womb) should not marry a woman, it is pretty obvious that a gay man should be with another gay man, as that is his suitable “helper”.
            And even if every man would want to marry a woman, there wouldn’t be enough women available because in every culture, in every country and of all times, there are more male babies being born that female. Almost exactly the same percentage as homosexuals of the total population. Coincidence?

          • ShemSilber

            Go your way then, until the Master Yahushua Himself tells you what I have told you. He will lift the blinders off your eyes for you, for I am only His witness, but He will change your mind for you to His truth, omein.

          • David

            I don’t need you to tell me what Jesus is telling me. He told us directly that there are only two commandments: Love God and Love your Neighbour. That is the foundation of all other laws. Foundation as it gives meaning to all other laws and commandments. From these two follow the ten commandments. No ask yourself, why is there not an eleventh regarding homosexuality?
            Because homosexuality in itself doesn’t violate these two commandments. Only when it interferes with your love of God (Idolatry), it becomes a sin (or if you harm someone it violates the love your neighbour commandment). Homosexuality in itself is perfectly fine with God. As he tells you in Isaiah 56, or gives you the examples in his holy book of same sex relationships. Nowhere judgement to be found.

          • ShemSilber

            And I don’t need you to tell me that you are ignoring the Master Yahushua’s warning about false christs and false apostles (Matthew 24:24; 2Corinthians 11:13; 1John 4:1), servants of the devil, who is interested only in luring as many as he can into Gei-Hinnom that was made for him and his fellow demons. They are teaching rebellion against the Torah, which is hate toward Yahuwah and hate toward your neighbor, as well as toward your own self. If that’s your choice, you have my sincere pity. Deuteronomy 30:19-20 applies, in the Name of the Master Yahushua, omein.

          • David

            So basically you are warning me that Jesus has warned be against the likes of you….

          • ShemSilber

            Basically, you are telling me that you are enjoying your ride to hell in that nice little hand-basket that Azazel has provided you, and you want nothing to do with the Master Yahushua, who died to save you from your sins. YOUR CHOICE, your choice, says the Master Yahushua, omein.

          • David

            Jesus gave us in Matthew 23 exactly his thoughts about you and your ilk:

            23 Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:

            2 The Pharisees and the teachers of the Law are experts in the Law of Moses. 3 So obey everything they teach you, but don’t do as they do. After all, they say one thing and do something else.

            4 They pile heavy burdens on people’s shoulders and won’t lift a finger to help. 5 Everything they do is just to show off in front of others. They even make a big show of wearing Scripture verses on their foreheads and arms, and they wear big tassels[a] for everyone to see. 6 They love the best seats at banquets and the front seats in the meeting places. 7 And when they are in the market, they like to have people greet them as their teachers.

            8 But none of you should be called a teacher. You have only one teacher, and all of you are like brothers and sisters. 9 Don’t call anyone on earth your father. All of you have the same Father in heaven. 10 None of you should be called the leader. The Messiah is your only leader. 11 Whoever is the greatest should be the servant of the others. 12 If you put yourself above others, you will be put down. But if you humble yourself, you will be honored.

            13-14 You Pharisees and teachers of the Law of Moses are in for trouble! You’re nothing but show-offs. You lock people out of the kingdom of heaven. You won’t go in yourselves, and you keep others from going in.[b]

          • ShemSilber

            I don’t answer you for your sake, but there are others who will believe your lies from the pit of Gei-Hinnom. You have your warning, and it’s time for you to lay off kicking against the instructions of the Master Yahushua that you keep twisting into a compound pretzel with no resemblance to truth. Give your arguments at the White Throne Judgment to the Master Yahushua directly, and you will find out how far they get you. You will find out what Isaiah 5:18-25 means, to wit: “18 Woe to them that draw iniquity with cords of falsehood, and sin as it were with wagon ropes: 19 That say, Let Him hurry, and hasten His work, that we may see it: and let the counsel of the Holy-One of
            Yisrael draw near and come, that we may know it! 20 Woe to them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! 21 Woe to them that are wise in their own eyes, and clever in their own sight! 22 Woe to them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength who mix strong drink: 23 Who justify the wicked for a bribe, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him! 24 Therefore as the fire devours the stubble, and the flame consumes the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the Torah of Yahuwah of hosts, and despised the word of the Kadosh-One of Yisrael. 25 Therefore is the anger of Yahuwah lit against His people, and He has stretched forth His hand against them, and has smitten them: and the hills did tremble, and their corpses were torn in the midst of the streets. For all this His anger has not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.”

            This is the plain word of Yahuwah Almighty to any who flaunt their sin as if it WERE His Torah, in Yahushua’s Name, omein!

    • David

      factually wrong.
      God didn’t say it is wrong. This is what God tells you (Matthew 22:40):

      There are ONLY two commandments: Love God and Love your neighbour. All other laws and prophets follow from these two.

      Homosexuality in itself doesn’t violate any of these two commandments, hence can not be a sin.

      Homosexuality in an idolatrous setting does violate these two commandments, just as any sex or other practice within that setting (Lev 18, 20, Romans 1, etc.).

    • David

    • DrewTwoFish

      Maybe God will change his mind like he did about foreskins. I’m never sure if it’s that God didn’t like foreskins or he loved them so much he wanted them back.

  • Coach

    He praised his church more than he praised God, the “controversial” things he said were Biblical, sadly, by softening on the LGBT issue, he implied that practicing homosexuals could be Christians, making him a roadblock to Biblical Christianity. Sadly, many worship patriotism and sprinkle some Christianity in there.

    I grew up southern Baptist and only in recent years discovered how unbiblical the invitation system was. I recall God dealing with sin in my life through His Word and my first thought was, maybe I need to rededicate, but I search scripture in vain, seeking grounds to do so.

    Matthew 15:8 ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
    And honor Me with their lips,
    But their heart is far from Me.
    9 And in vain they worship Me,
    Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

    • Amos Moses

      Been there, done that …… not as a Baptist ….. but many think they are being christians and are not ….. He chooses us … we do not choose Him …….

      • Coach

        Amen brother, the reality of Him choosing us has completely changed my view of ministry, as cultural relevance saves nobody, only makes lost people comfortable on their way to hell.

    • David

      Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men. And that is exactly what you are doing.

      Explain to me the true meaning of Matthew 22:40. There are only two commandments: Love God & Love your Neighbour. Upon these two rest all other laws and prophets. All other laws and commandments get their meaning trough these two.

      Homosexuality in itself doesn’t violate the Love God or Love your Neighbour command. Only within the context of Idolatry or Adultery it becomes a sin, as the first violates the Love God commandment, and the second the Love your Neighbour commandment. And that is the exact context of Lev 18&20, as well as Romans 1.

      Bearing false witness made it to the famous ten.

      So now go and sin no more…

  • http://www.CatherineCrabill.com CatherineCrabill

    BLASPHEMY! HIS CONGREGATION SHOULD FIRE HIM! The “Law of the Land” will never trump THE LAW OF GOD!

    • OhSoGood

      Your god is meaningless in marriage or US law.

      Nothing but an option you seem to have chosen for yourself.

      • Amos Moses

        nope …….. God is meaningless in homomarriage ………. and therefore the homomarriage is meaningless and a lie …..

        • OhSoGood

          No god needed for any marriage. Simple fact.

          • Amos Moses

            Simple fact ……. He is involved in all of them ……… just not those who reject Him ………

          • OhSoGood

            It is unnecessary… no religious trappings or deities are necessary for marriage in the US of A.

        • David

          Tell that to David & Jonathan, who made a covenant before God…

          • Amos Moses

            nope …. they were not homomarried or anything else ….. there is a big difference between that and a healthy and respectful love between men ….. it has nothing to do with homosexuality ….. and if that had gone on they would have been severely dealt with …..

          • David

            Not at all, because homosexuality has never been a sin in the bible. That is a human construct based on out of context literal reading of scripture.

          • Amos Moses

            wrong again …………it is a God/Christ construct ………

          • David

            Than it must be a God/Christ construct in your mind, because there is no scriptural evidence to support your claim.

          • Amos Moses

            what claim …..

          • David

            Your claim that it is a God/Christ construct.
            It is not, and you will not be able to produce any scriptural evidence that it is.

          • Amos Moses

            the bible is God/Christs word …. and can be backed up …. and if you reject that ….. then there is nothing left for discussion …. as you reject scripture … but then want to pontificate as to what it says …

          • David

            I don’t reject scripture at all. But there is nothing in it that supports your claim.

          • Amos Moses

            Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
            Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

          • Amos Moses

            that was not a marriage ………. and there is no scriptural support for this idea ………..

          • David

            Factually wrong. There is actually a lot of scriptural evidence to prove my point.

            The first time the bible discusses anything like a marriage it is not called a marriage. It is described in Genesis 2:

            18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
            24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

            As introduction I want to make the point that there are more boys than girls being born. That is of all times, all cultures and all parts of the world. AS it is not good that a man should be alone, and not every man can have a wife, It is clearly God’s intention that some man should have another man as a “suitable help”. And we already know from Matthew 19:11&12 that a woman can never be a suitable help for a gay man (born eunuch) anyway.

            The first texts of the bible don’t use the word marriage. They use the phrase: Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother.

            1 Samuel 18 and further.

            We have lots of verses in 1 Samuel 18 that talk about Jonathan loving David more than himself, that Jonathan is in love with David, etc. etc. But there is much more clarification what that relationship really entails:

            1 samuel 18.

            1 As soon as he had finished speaking to Saul, the soul of Jonathan was knit to the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul. 2 And Saul took him that day and would not let him return to his father’s house. 3 Then Jonathan made a covenant with David, because he loved him as his own soul. 4 And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was on him and gave it to David, and his armor, and even his sword and his bow and his belt.

            The 2nd verse is of particular relevance as it uses the same language as most references within the bible to a marriage. Read Genesis and read Matthew. They all use the words “And for this a man shall leave the house of his father”

            To have this verse preceding the 3rd verse regarding the covenant, it makes it very clear what kind of covenant this is.

            And there is more:

            20 And Michal Saul’s daughter loved David: and they told Saul, and the thing pleased him.

            21 And Saul said, I will give him her, that she may be a snare to him, and that the hand of the Philistines may be against him. Wherefore Saul said to David, Thou shalt this day be my son in law in the twain.

            Here Saul again recognized the covenant between David and Jonathan in the same line as a marriage, as it makes David Saul’s son in law twice.

            30 Then Saul’s anger was kindled against Jonathan, and he said unto him, Thou son of the perverse rebellious woman, do not I know that thou hast chosen the son of Jesse to thine own confusion, and unto the confusion of thy mother’s nakedness?

            What could be more clear? Saul here calls Jonathan a shameful pervert (‘âvâh). Depending on where the English translations place the comma (ancient Hebrew didn’t use them), before or after the words perverse and woman, he may even be calling his son a perverse woman, in other words, a homosexual, directly. Different versions handle it variously. But regardless, Saul here accuses Jonathan directly: “Don’t lie to me, I know about you and David, you’re a couple of sexual perverts who shame both me and your mother!

            After this emotional event, Jonathan and David met secretly in the woods. The biblical record of their rendezvous at 20:41 is charged with love and sexual passion as they intimately kiss and embrace.

            “And as soon as the lad was gone, David arose out of a place toward the south, and fell on his face to the ground, and bowed himself three times: and they kissed one another, and wept one with another, until David exceeded.”

            “…until David exceeded.” What does this mean? The Hebrew word used here is Gadal and is an interesting word to use. It literally means “to grow, become great or important, promote, make powerful, praise, magnify, do great things.” Now, this was one of the low points in David’s life. His mentor, King Saul, was seeking his death, Jonathan had just come into the woods where he was hiding to tell David he needed to flee for his life. As in English, the context in which a word is used can alter its meaning. In this case, David obviously didn’t remain hidden in the woods until becoming the great leader he eventually became. The only other possible meaning for this phrase is they enbraced and kissed until David had “grown” or become erect, until he, and obviously Jonathan, became “great” or “swollen” and had made physical love. This is the only concievable meaning.

            After this touching scene, David fled from Saul’s wrath, kissing his lover good-bye.

            At 23:16-18 Jonathan again meets David in the woods and the two re-swear their undying love and devotion:

            16 And Jonathan Saul’s son arose, and went to David into the wood, and strengthened his hand in God.

            17 And he said unto him, Fear not: for the hand of Saul my father shall not find thee; and thou shalt be king over Israel, and I shall be next unto thee; and that also Saul my father knoweth.

            18 And they two made a covenant before the LORD: and David abode in the wood, and Jonathan went to his house.

            If this was a heterosexual couple there would be no doubt about how the episode should be understood: David was again living in the forest. Jonathan went to him, encouraged him in God and the two men made a “covenant” to one another before God. What was this covenant? The text clearly tells us with yet another unmistakable confirmation about their marriage: “thou shalt be king over Israel, and I shall be next unto thee.” In other words, You David will be the king and I will be, so to speak, your queen.

            You recall how I interpreted Saul’s accusation that Jonathan and David were “sexual perverts who shame both me and your mother!” Here Jonathan confirms this understanding. Not only does he promise loyalty to David, to be his “queen,” he also says, “I shall be next unto thee; and that also Saul my father knoweth.” Saul knows what? It is obvious!

            II Samuel 1:26 tells us that after Saul and Jonathan’s death, David remembered his lover fondly and lamented: “I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan; very pleasant hast thou been unto me. Thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women.

            As we all know there was not such a thing of platonic love between a man and a woman of that time. Therefore, the only love David can be referring to in the above is the physical love.

          • Amos Moses

            covenants can and are marriages ….. but not all covenants are marriages …….. so fail …. Volvos are cars …. but not all cars are Volvos ……… and your misuse of scripture wasted on me …. i am not going to help you condemn you to hell by arguing about it ……. as an example …. say on Game of Thrones ….. when Ned was made “hand of the king” …. there was a covenant ….. and there was a love between the two men ….. but it was not a marriage ….. it was an agreement and a very strong friendship …… and that was Jonathans role ….

          • David

            Sorry, but you are contradiction yourself. In the first sentence you say that covenants are marriages….

            The Genesis 2 terminology for a marriage is a covenant for which the man leaves the house from his father. And that is exactly what David is doing when he enters into his covenant with Jonathan. And I agree he didn’t have a volvo at his disposal.

            The fact that you equal the wisdom of scripture to game of thrones says enough …. Speaking about misuse of scripture!

          • Amos Moses

            Nope … i said “covenants can and are marriages ….. but not all covenants are marriages ” … just as all volvos are cars but not all cars are Volvos …….Fail …….

          • David

            You silly man. Of course I understood what you meant. Leaves the second part of my post unchallenged…

          • Amos Moses

            “The Genesis 2 terminology for a marriage is a covenant for which the man leaves the house from his father. And that is exactly what David is doing when he enters into his covenant with Jonathan.”

            No … he became a very close and trusted adviser to David …. as a “hand of the king” ….. but there was no marriage of the sort you suggest …

            lets understand …. David was a very sinful man ….. he committed murder and adultery ….. among other sins ….. but the argument you are trying to make is that homosexuality is NOT a sin when it clearly is ….. and it is a forgivable sin with repentance …. but it is a sin in any regard …. and there is no biblical evidence David committed that sin ….

            in fact pretty much everyone in Christs family were terrible, terrible sinners …… and most everyone, the major persons, we read about in scripture, were Christs family history ………. and the weakness of your argument is that you want to believe it was not a sin because that is what you want to convince others ….. so that you will be okay with it … and you know deep down in places you do not want to acknowledge … you know that it is sin and that it is wrong …….

            if you made the argument that it was a sin, David committed it and was forgiven would be a stronger argument …… but to say it is not sin … is wrong …. and is the sin of blasphemy ….. saying God/Christ said things he clearly never said ……….

          • David

            My version is supported by scripture. Your version is supported by ….. Games of thrones….

            You state that homosexuality is clearly a sin. I invite you to back it up. Because it is not.

            Lets see what even your great friend Gagnon says about the subject:

            On Leviticus, Gagnon writes: “I do not doubt that the circles out of which Leviticus 18:22 was produced had in view homosexual cult prostitution, at least partly. Homosexual cult prostitution appears to have been the primary form in which homosexual intercourse was practiced in Israel” [The Bible and Homosexual Practice: Texts and Hermeneutics (Nashville: Abingdon, 2001), 130].

            Read up on Matthew 22:40. Love God and Love your neighbour. These two commandments are the foundation and give meaning to all other laws and commandments.

            Homosexuality doesn’t violate these two commandments, unless it is practices within the context of Idolatry. Therefore Homosexuality is not a sin.

          • Amos Moses

            No …. your version is your version ………. and is not scripture …. as it is your version …….

            Deuteronomy 4:2, Deuteronomy 12:32, Proverbs 30:6, Galatians 1:8-9, Revelation 22 18-21

          • David

            I thought your guidance came from Games of thrones….

            I don’t need to add a single word to scripture, nor do I need to remove a single word to come to the only truthful conclusion: Homosexuality has never been a sin.

          • Amos Moses

            apparently you do not understand analogy ……

            Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
            Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

          • Amos Moses

            FYI ……… when you bring your idea of what scripture says to scripture ….. then that IS adding to scripture ….. we do not bring our meaning to scripture …. we take our meaning from it ….. it is called exegesis ….. and you have none …………

          • David

            Please provide evidence where I have added anything to scripture what is not in scripture itself already?

          • Amos Moses

            you have brought your preconceived notion of homosexuality is NOT sin ….. and then tried to justify it from scripture …… your addition to scripture is that idea ….. that is eisegesis …. actually it is narcissistic eisegesis or narcigesis …… it is like saying “this is the result I want” and then trying to fit what you find to a conclusion that already exists ….. and then twist the text to fit the result wanted …….. that is not how scripture works …… and it is painfully obvious what is being done ……… and the scriptural evidence of this error is the scripture i have given you Gal 1:8-9 ……….

            Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
            Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

  • Trilemma

    Granted, there’s no such thing as settled law, Mr. Jeffress has the right idea concerning gay marriage. Christians need to accept the fact that gay marriage is here to stay. Nowhere in the New Testament did Christians ever try to change laws to align them with their morality. Nowhere did the Christians in the NT try to get the government to enact laws to impose Christian morality on non-Christians.

  • Roy Hobs

    One thing I know for sure……..despite the victory by the Cultural Marxists, a woman and a woman, or a man and a man can NEVER be “One Flesh”.
    Sexual Intercourse is the marriage of two flesh into one. This…..they can never redefine. A piece of paper means jack squat.

    • OhSoGood

      No need to be. Not a single requirement for it in any law. People are wed all the time for money, property, family, and sex is never a requirement.

      Neat, huh?

      • Roy Hobs

        I have no idea ‘your point’. “No need to be….” what?

        • OhSoGood

          No need to be what your religion refers to as “one flesh”… that’d be the procreative act, which isn’t required for marriage.

          • Roy Hobs

            Right……………..A paper marriage. A piece of paper is all they got.

          • OhSoGood

            That’s all that is needed, darlin’.

          • Liberal Elitist

            Try getting a paperless divorce.

    • Ambulance Chaser

      Same sex couples are not asking for, not interested in, and do not need, your Biblical approval of their marriages.

      • Roy Hobs

        Really? I thought they did. They sure seem like they do.

        • Ambulance Chaser

          Based on what?

          • Roy Hobs

            They hound us daily.

          • Worf

            Actually, the christains are the ones doing the hounding. Demanding that their silly story book outweighs human rights and the law. You can believe in and follow your bible, but you can’t expect others to do the same.

          • Amos Moses

            actually ……… it is the homosexuals coming here to try to convice or ridicule us ….. we did not go anywhere to seek their approval …. they all came here …

          • Worf

            Nobody said you were seeking their approval. You demean them, criticize them, and frequently say terrible things about them. Then on top of that, you expect them to live by rules set forth by your book of ancient fairy tales.

          • Amos Moses

            they are seeking our approval of their depravity and that is why they are here ……… very simple …… if they did not care they would be elsewhere ………

          • Amos Moses

            “Then on top of that, you expect them to live by rules set forth by your book of ancient fairy tales.”

            So is that a scientific, theological or personal opinion …………..

          • Roy Hobs

            You won’t find “Roy Hobs” at the Huffington Post! Visit religionnews and get ready to THROW UP. 9 out of 10 commenters are anti-Christ. On a Religious site no less!!!

          • Roy Hobs

            hypocrisy

      • Amos Moses

        And yet they go way out of their way to get it ….. and when they do not …… they use a cudgel …….

        • Ambulance Chaser

          No, they want the law to recognize their marriage. They don’t care about individuals.

          • Amos Moses

            if they ever get one then it will be recognized ….. but two of the SS is not a marriage and again ….. it still comes down to the desire for everyones approval ….. which you stated they do not care about and is a lie ………….. “They don’t care about individuals.” …. just another lie …………

          • Ambulance Chaser

            You’re not saying anything of substance. You’re just stomping your foot and insisting reality is a certain way despite all evidence to the contrary.

          • Amos Moses

            there is no reality to SS persons and marriage …….. it is an oxymoron …… they can call it whatever lie they choose ….. does not make it the truth ………. and i do not have to “stomp my foot” for that to be understood ……… the evidence to the contrary is that it is a marriage ………….. it aint ……….

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Yes, the evidence is “it ain’t” Sure. That’s convincing.

            The point that you seem to be unable to grasp is that if the law says something exists, then for the purposes of law, it does. It is not dependent on whether Amos Moses gives his approval first. Your opinions do not supersede the Supreme Court’s.

          • Amos Moses

            “law says something exists, then for the purposes of law, it does.”

            so when the “law” said it was okey-doke to kill jews because they were ….. well ….. jews ….. cool ……… and Germany said that was the “law” ………..

            and when slavery was the law ….. cool ………. because for the “purpose of the law” …… it was cool ……….. and you know what ……. SCOTUS AFFIRMED IT ……. NUMEROUS TIMES …… your arguement HOLDS NO WATER ….. because just because it is the law ….. has not one thing to do with the truth ………………..

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Yes. That’s what I’m trying to tell you. Even if it’s abhorrent, it’s still law.

          • Amos Moses

            again ….. holds no water …. has nothing to do with the truth ……….

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Are you saying that slavery wasn’t law in this country? Are you saying that laws being bad is the same thing as them not existing?

          • Amos Moses

            homomarriage is not a marriage ….. no matter who says it ….. including SCOTUS ………..

          • Ambulance Chaser

            How about you answer my question? Do you believe that bad laws are the same thing as laws that don’t exist?

          • Amos Moses

            All laws that are a violation of Gods laws are null and void from inception …….. and any “authority” who passes or endorses such laws …… is also null and void ………… now they may still “exist” …. but they have no force of law ….. only the force of the state ……. and that is tyranny ……

          • Ambulance Chaser

            That makes no sense. You can’t have a null and void law that’s still enforceable but it’s tyranny. That entire paragraph contradicts itself.

          • Amos Moses

            nope ….. men use law for purposes unintended by law …….. it is a wrongful use ….. when it contradicts Gods law then it can be ignored …… but men with guns do not like that ….

          • Amos Moses

            Incest Embraced by Liberals as “Sexual Diversity” – “Nothing Wrong With It” Say SJWs

            on the utube machine …. direct result …. direct harm ………. of homomarriage …..

            youtube;com/watch?v=mx457T7iWMA – Replace the ; with a .

            WOW ……… cant be called a beegot …. that would be terrible ……..

          • Ambulance Chaser

            So you’re not going to answer. Got it.

  • ShemSilber

    It matter NOT what any human says about “gay” marriage (that will end only in misery), it is contrary to Scriptural principle, which calls it abomination and confusion and worthy of death (Leviticus 18:22; 20:23). The Apostle Paul says that effeminacy and homosexuality will keep one out of the Kingdom of Yahuwah, per 1Corinthians 6:9-11, and he says, “…and such WERE some of you, but you were WASHED…” They were sodomites whom Paul showed the salvation that can be found only in the Master Yahushua (Lord Jesus), and they repented of that and turned to the Master, asking Him for His makeover in their lives. So there is NO SUCH THING in Yahuwah’s eyes as same-sex marriage, and refusal to repent of it is a de facto refusal to accept the salvation available only through the Master Yahushua.

    Two programs, LGBT and prenatal murder of babies, are not at all about human rights, but are promoted by globalists for the purpose of population control and reduction. First they started out with encouraging abstinence, then they gradually went into stronger steps of birth control through condoms and pills, and when that didn’t work, they began working their way up the abortion ladder. They went from abortion in special instances to abortion in any and every instance of pregnancy. Likewise, they kept upping the perversion of the sexes, until now they claim that a person can even change the sex they were born with, whereas that is utterly impossible. Even if they were ABLE to change the sex of a person and make one a viable opposite of how they were born (which is impossible and therefore nonexistent), whatever they did was by malingering and in defiance of the Creator’s assignment of gender at conception.

    Speaking of the “law of the land,” it was the law of the land in Sodom and Gomorrah that they robbed strangers and left them bound in the street to starve to death before their eyes, while they were celebrating and robbing them and making them suffer until they died. Would this preacher then have said in those circumstances that, since it was the law of the land, we ought therefore to DO it, to join with them in this inhumane and cruel behavior? I would certainly hope NOT.

    The time is short until the Master comes to rule from Jerusalem, ISRAEL (Isaiah 2:1-4; Micah 4:1-4), and all these evil so-called laws of the land will be off the books and burnt in the flames of Gei-Hinnom, the Lake of Fire made for Azazel, the devil, a.k.a. Allah the no-god of Islam and the rest of the demons. All evil will be burnt to ashes in those fires, and we will then have permanent and perpetual peace on earth in the Presence of the Master Yahushua, omein and omein!

    • OhSoGood

      No “scripture” is required for marriage.

      • ShemSilber

        Scriptures as given from Yahuwah through men such as Moses and the other prophets, including His 12 apostles and other writers, are an indispensable GUIDE to proper living. We operate contrary to His revelation to our peril, especially if we reject His offer of everlasting life through the Master Yahushua (Lord Jesus). Both we and the personnel of the civil government are answerable to the Master Yahushua. You can believe that or not, but you will know it before long.

        If we reject the Master Yahushua and His Torah, He will reject us and we will die the second death, whereas He is zealous to give everlasting LIFE to those who submit to Him. YOUR CHOICE.

    • David

      Get a less biased translation of the holy bible, or read it in its original koine Greek. Your choice is only evidence of your own prejudice.

  • Douglas Belardi

    sorry trump toady jeffless, using your logic “aborton” is even more settled law
    obviously popular the acclaim of men trumps your Biblical principles

  • Rick

    Marriage is a union of man and woman in holy matrimony. The concept itself was ordained by God. The corruption of this union designed to reflect a a greater spiritual example of Christ and His church has been shown to be a cheap replica by the world. The world will take anything Holy and attempt to pollute it, that is a people ruled by sin and darkness.
    We…the Church uphold righteousness and continue to represent Christ to this world until the time of the gentiles is fulfilled.
    Even so, come quickly Lord Jesus.

    • OhSoGood

      Legally, you are wrong on marriage. You may, however, be right on “holy matrimony”.

      Your god is not required for marriage. Nor is your religion.

    • David

      And Jesus himself gave us the exceptions for marriage (Matthew 19:11&12), while the bible is full of same sex civil unions and love stories. I refer to David & Jonathan, Daniel and his king, Jesus and his beloved disciple, Ruth & Naomi, the Roman soldier and his toy boy, etc.

  • Trilemma

    Yahweh’s law is not perfect, right, true, and righteous altogether. Yahweh’s law never mentions same sex marriage.

  • OhSoGood

    And no one has yet to be harmed by two members of the same sex getting married.

    All the doomsday prophets screaming about it were wrong.

  • stackedaktor

    Look, nobody really cares. The world has kept on spinning and NO ONE has been harmed by this.

    President-Elect Trump is right! Time to move on . . .

  • libertynottyranny

    What a fraud. So marriage is off limits because it’s “settled law”, but we should go after abortion?

    Mr Jeffress: FYI abortion was also “settled” by the same “court” – & therefore using your illogical reasoning should also be off limits.

    Where does the church find these leaders? Where’s her discernment gone?

    • stackedaktor

      “The church needs to reject this man as a leader.”

      #1. There isn’t just one church or denomination in America. This statement makes no sense.

      #2. He will be the President whether you like it or not. Remember, “render Caesar”?

      Yeah, well, render Trump!

  • David

    David himself has proven that there is nothing wrong or sinful with homosexuality. He even had his own civil union with Jonathan. And guess what, all included in the good old OT.

    • TobyJMoore

      You apparently don’t know much about covenants. A covenant is basically a contractual agreement between two parties. A marriage is one type of covenant between a man and a woman, the conditions of which are agreed upon by vows or oaths and then finally consummated by sexual intercourse. In the Bible Yahweh made covenants with individuals and groups, and covenants were even made between men. The Bible gives account of David and Jonathan covenanting together, but it’s a stretch to even suggest that it was romantic or sexual in nature. We’re not told that it was. Mention is made of David’s wife, Michal, the daughter of Saul, but we never read of “Jonathan, the husband of David.”

      • David

        Interesting to know that almost 50% of modern day Christian couples use the vows of Ruth to Naomi to seal the marriage covenant…
        A marriage is a covenant, a civil union is a covenant too. From Genesis 2 we know how early OT described a marriage (the word marriage is not used yet). “For this reason a man shall leave the house of his father and mother”.
        Now read in Samuel the verse just before the establishment of the covenant between David & Jonathan. Here it is stated that for this reason David left the house of his father and mother. This clearly indicates what kind of covenant we are talking about here.

        And there is more:

        20 And Michal Saul’s daughter loved David: and they told Saul, and the thing pleased him.

        21 And Saul said, I will give him her, that she may be a snare to him, and that the hand of the Philistines may be against him. Wherefore Saul said to David, Thou shalt this day be my son in law in the twain.

        Here Saul again recognized the covenant between David and Jonathan in the same line as a marriage, as it makes David Saul’s son in law twice.

        30 Then Saul’s anger was kindled against Jonathan, and he said unto him, Thou son of the perverse rebellious woman, do not I know that thou hast chosen the son of Jesse to thine own confusion, and unto the confusion of thy mother’s nakedness?

        What could be more clear? Saul here calls Jonathan a shameful pervert (‘âvâh). Depending on where the English translations place the comma (ancient Hebrew didn’t use them), before or after the words perverse and woman, he may even be calling his son a perverse woman, in other words, a homosexual, directly. Different versions handle it variously. But regardless, Saul here accuses Jonathan directly: “Don’t lie to me, I know about you and David, you’re a couple of sexual perverts who shame both me and your mother!

        After this emotional event, Jonathan and David met secretly in the woods. The biblical record of their rendezvous at 20:41 is charged with love and sexual passion as they intimately kiss and embrace.

        “And as soon as the lad was gone, David arose out of a place toward the south, and fell on his face to the ground, and bowed himself three times: and they kissed one another, and wept one with another, until David exceeded.”

        “…until David exceeded.” What does this mean? The Hebrew word used here is Gadal and is an interesting word to use. It literally means “to grow, become great or important, promote, make powerful, praise, magnify, do great things.” Now, this was one of the low points in David’s life. His mentor, King Saul, was seeking his death, Jonathan had just come into the woods where he was hiding to tell David he needed to flee for his life. As in English, the context in which a word is used can alter its meaning. In this case, David obviously didn’t remain hidden in the woods until becoming the great leader he eventually became. The only other possible meaning for this phrase is they enbraced and kissed until David had “grown” or become erect, until he, and obviously Jonathan, became “great” or “swollen” and had made physical love. This is the only concievable meaning.

        After this touching scene, David fled from Saul’s wrath, kissing his lover good-bye.

        Etc.

        • TobyJMoore

          //Interesting to know that almost 50% of modern day Christian couples use the vows of Ruth to Naomi to seal the marriage covenant…//

          You find it interesting that some Christian couples use words from a biblical covenant in their marriage covenant? I’m not sure how this is relevant to the discussion, unless you’re suggesting that Ruth & Naomi were lovers. Ruth was Naomi’s daughter-in-law, and you know that.

          //Here it is stated that for this reason David left the house of his father and mother. This clearly indicates what kind of covenant we are talking about here.//

          No, it says Saul would not let him return to his father’s house. Then, Jonathan and David covenanted together. Also, Genesis 2:24 – “Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his WIFE…”

          //Here Saul again recognized the covenant between David and Jonathan in the same line as a marriage, as it makes David Saul’s son in law twice.//

          Saul was jealous of David and wanted him dead. To accomplish this he promised a wife for David if he would fight for him, hoping that the Philistines would kill him in battle. He tried once to betroth David to his daughter Merab (1 Sam. 18:17-19), but she was given instead to Adriel. Notice David’s response to the initial proposal: “Who am I… that I should be son-in-law to the king?” If he was already his son-in-law by way of marriage to Jonathan, then this question wouldn’t make any sense.

          Saul tried again with his daughter Michal (1 Sam. 18:20-29). This was the second time he tried to make him his son-in-law. You’re reading something into the text when you try to make verse 21 say that he would become his son-in-law a second time. Again David ponders in verse 23 why Saul should want a “poor man of no reputation” for a son-in-law. If David and Jonathan were married at this time, then perhaps everyone was suffering from collective amnesia, because nobody bothered to remind him of his first marriage. Or maybe he wasn’t married in the first place. That sounds more likely. In 1 Sam. 18:25, 26 Saul requires a dowry of 100 Philistine foreskins from David, and it says that when David heard this it pleased him to be the king’s son-in-law. It seems more likely and makes more sense if David had not yet married into the family.

          //he may even be calling his son a perverse woman, in other words, a homosexual, directly. Different versions handle it variously. But regardless, Saul here accuses Jonathan directly: “Don’t lie to me, I know about you and David, you’re a couple of sexual perverts who shame both me and your mother!//

          Again, you read way too much into the text. Why would Saul only now be upset that David and Jonathan are homosexuals if they were already married and if Saul had already tried to make David his son-in-law twice, as you argued before? Saul was actually upset that Jonathan had established a close-knit friendship with David that threatened the king’s sovereignty, since David was the king’s enemy, and since Jonathan was, of course, the son of the king.

          //After this emotional event, Jonathan and David met secretly in the woods. The biblical record of their rendezvous at 20:41 is charged with love and sexual passion as they intimately kiss and embrace.//

          If you wanted to find homosexual love in this passage, I’m sure it wasn’t hard for you to do so.

          //The Hebrew word used here is Gadal and is an interesting word to use. It literally means “to grow, become great or important, promote, make powerful, praise, magnify, do great things.”… The only other possible meaning for this phrase is they enbraced and kissed until David had “grown” or become erect, until he, and obviously Jonathan, became “great” or “swollen” and had made physical love. This is the only concievable meaning.//

          To be sure, gadal has several meanings. And you found the only instance in the entire OT that means “to get an erection”. Hmm. It could also mean what most available translations indicate, which is that David exceeded or surpassed Jonathan in his anguished weeping. After all, Yahweh was supposed to be with David and it was his life that was being sought. The text does say that they kissed, but then that same word (nashaq) is used throughout the OT. And if we imply that sex always comes after kissing, then you have all kinds of sexual relationships between parents and their children, siblings, and people of the same sex. That obviously is not what the intended meaning here. We are not told that “David entered Jonathan” or vice versa.

          You have a perverse way of interpreting the Bible and I want to urge you repent. Stop trying to force your homosexual agenda onto the Scriptures. Stop trying to knowingly deceive others with these lies. “Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.” (Isaiah 5:20)

    • J J

      You’re delusional.

      • David

        That is your opinion, but not substantiated by any scripture. Mine is…

  • Todd Miller

    I don’t get it. He says ssm marriage is settled law and to move onto abortion. I’m pretty sure in the early 70’s the SCOTUS ruled on abortion, so wouldn’t that be settled law also. He’s kind of lacking in logical consistency with his statements. Secondly when did Christians put the law of land above God and his commands. God’s commands always come first for a Christian and should never be subservient to man’s law. I’m pretty sure that’s how it works.

  • Robert

    Lutherans are free to disreguard what their pastors or synod seminar professors or synod presidents say if they have no convincing bible passaged to back up what they say. Has this Baptist pastor given any convincing scripture to back up what he says.If not I would not pay any attention to what he says
    Opinions are like belly buttons every one has one Its only Gods word that goes forever

    • David

      I can give you some backup.

      Isaiah 56 tells us that God will create a monument in heaven greater than having children, for homosexuals amongst others.

      Matthew 22:40 tells you that there are only two commandments, Love God and Love your Neighbour and that all other laws are getting their meaning trough these two commandments. Homosexuality in itself doesn’t violate these two commandments (unless it occurs within an idolatrous context) and is therefore not a sin.

      Or read Matthew 19:11&12, where Jesus even confirms that homosexuals are born so from mothers womb (I invite you to cross reference with the talmud and roman law of that time).

      Or the many examples in the bible of same sex relationships. I refer to David & Jonathan, Ruth & Naomi, Daniel and his king, Jesus and his beloved disciple and the Roman soldier and his toy boy.

      Just to name a few examples… The bible is one of the most pro homosexual books ever written…

  • OhSoGood

    For those who think there’s still a legal fight left here, I have a question.

    On what grounds do you see SCOTUS taking up the gay marriage case again? What harm is being caused that would be sufficient for them to revisit the case?

    • SammySeattle

      Those in power know that they have no path toward overturning Obergefell, but they also know that their followers are immune to reason. So, they’ll continue to stir up emotions to drive more $$ into their pockets.

      • OhSoGood

        Yup!

  • NCOriolesFan

    Since CONGRESS is the ONLY lawmaking authority in the U.S, when did it pass a law legalizing SSM? Just like with abortion, SCOTUS is coercing the USA to its’ definition of law – thinking out of the blue.

  • Robert Radford

    Jeffress like the other spiritual adviser’s Trump has surrounded himself with will continue to give him bad advice because they have their own agendas. If Trump offered Jeffress a position on his cabinet tomorrow he would most likely take it. They do not speak with the wisdom of God because if God condemns things as evil then it will be forever and ever. To say its now the law of the land so forget it and move on does not come from the throne of heaven but from a man speaking from his own heart which is desperately wicked and deceitful above all things. Jeremiah 17:9

  • CSN

    Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed just the same, Pastor Jeffress. God doesn’t look at the “Law of the Land”, but at the “Law” he wrote in the “Ten Commandments”.

    Abortion is also the “Law of the Land” Pastor Jeffress, and you state we are to oppose that Law, but somehow Gay Marriage should be tolerated, and so how does this correlate with Holy Scripture? It doesn’t. It just goes to show that people who don’t oppose evil, will be judged the same as those who promote evil. Those are the words written in Scripture.

  • John O

    simple choice; choose Jesus as Master or
    choose 501 government as your master Hebrews 10:26 (NASB)
    26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,