U.S. Supreme Court Asked to Hear Appeal Over Ban on Helping Youth Struggling With Homosexuality

WASHINGTON — A religious rights organization has petitioned the U.S. Supreme Court to hear an appeal regarding California’s ban on “conversion therapy” and counseling youth to resist romantic desires toward the same sex.

“SB 1172 directly violates the fundamental constitutional right to privacy in that it prohibits minors from defining their own existence. The law prevents minors from accessing mental health services and spiritual mentoring that would assist them in diminishing same-sex attraction in accordance with self-defined religious, moral, cultural, and philosophical beliefs,” the Writ of Certiorari recently filed by the Pacific Justice Institute (PJI) reads.

As previously reported, in 2012, as the ban was being contemplated in the legislature, Gov. Jerry Brown remarked that he hoped reparative therapy would be forever heaved into “the dustbin of quackery.” The bill’s author, Democratic Sen. Ted Lieu of Torrance, claimed that counseling and therapy aimed at helping youth turn from the homosexual lifestyle is the equivalent of “psychological child abuse.”

The legislation prohibited any type of  “conversion therapy,” “sexual orientation therapy,” “reparative therapy” or “sexual orientation change efforts,” by licensed therapists and counselors, but did not apply to those who “provide acceptance, support, and understanding of clients or the facilitation of clients’ coping, social support, and identity exploration and development, including sexual orientation-neutral interventions to prevent or address unlawful conduct or unsafe sexual practices; and do not seek to change sexual orientation.”

It pointed to statements from the American School Counselor Association, the American Counseling Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics and others.

“No one should stand idly by while children are being psychologically abused, and anyone who forces a child to try to change their sexual orientation must understand this is unacceptable,” Lieu wrote in a written statement.

Soon after the bill became law, PJI and the Florida-based Liberty Counsel filed suit in hopes of obtaining an injunction against its enforcement. A psychiatrist, a licensed therapist who also oversees a church counseling ministry, and a resident who struggles with same-sex attraction and has been helped by the therapy were all represented in the suit.

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“School counselors in private religious schools will only be allowed to give counseling that affirms same-sex attraction,” lamented PJI President Brad Dacus. “Youth in the early stages of puberty, when it is normal for them to be curious, often have fears that they may be homosexual. These youth are going to be subjected to tremendous victimization [via the affirmation that is] mandated through every counselor in the state of California.”

As the legal battle continues five years later, PJI has now appealed its case to the U.S. Supreme Court, presenting questions such as, “May a state bar ministers from inculcating or encouraging certain religious values in youth, when those ministers are also licensed by the state as mental health providers?”

“Are minors’ rights to privacy, autonomy, and self-definition violated by a State’s determination that they may only seek to reduce same-sex attraction on their own or with the assistance of unlicensed individuals, and they may not seek professional help to do so?” the legal challenge also asks the court to determine.

Plaintiff Donald Welch, who serves at Skyline Wesleyan Church in LaMesa, says that the law now subjects him to potential discipline by the California Board of Behavioral Sciences if he counsels youth in accordance with the Scriptures.

“In his pastoral role, Dr. Welch is prohibited from encouraging, enabling or validating sexual beliefs or behaviors contrary to the teachings of the Church. Dr. Welch’s clientele includes minors who identify as gay, lesbian, bisexual, heterosexual and questioning youth,” the lawsuit notes, pointing to conflict between his job as a church counselor and the law.

PJI says that if the court accepts the case, it could be one of the most significant of 2017.

“If the Supreme Court grants our petition for Certiorari, this will be the most important freedom of religion case for this year and will impact the rights of counseling ministries across the country, potentially for generations to come,” Dacus said in a statement.


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  • Croquet_Player

    Every reputable psychiatric organization worldwide says so-called “conversion therapy” does not work and is often harmful. In the meantime, these snake-oil peddlers are still trying to shamefully grub money from families. It’s disgusting, and should be against the law.

    • Amos Moses

      ok …. so if a woman “chooses” a certain procedure …. for her own reasons …. it should be allowed because you agree with it …. no matter how “barbaric” and “money grubbing” it is …. because you agree with it ….. but one that basically involves talk and prayer and a person choosing to do it …. should be outlawed because you disagree with it …..because you characterize it as “snake-oil peddlers are still trying to shamefully grub money from families”

      WOW …………………. and of course the strawman argument that should be asked …… do you have a problem with free choice …………….. and who are you or the government to intervene in a private choice ………..

      • Ambulance Chaser

        No, because the overwhelming majority of scientific evidence agrees with it.

    • johndoe

      The snake oil paddlers are those who provide conversion therapy.

    • Royce E. Van Blaricome

      “Every reputable psychiatric organization worldwide says…”

      The same old regurgitated pabulum from the spiritually-dead Left and LGBTQABCXYZ and their supporters.

      If you all were at the very least intellectually honest you’d stop saying that because you oughtta at least know those “reputable” folks you point to where calling you folks perverts about a half century ago, mentally-ill about 20yrs ago, and scratching their heads as to what to say about 10yrs ago!

      So much for “reputable”.

      But hey, thank you for showing your true colors and why Christians need to be on every school board, every city council, every level of local, state, and federal government because left up to folks like you we’d all be breaking the law and no doubt interned in a camp somewhere to await extermination.

      Take heed Christian!! Don’t just dismiss these lunatic comments as nothing but blather. If they get their way it’ll happen!!

      • Ambulance Chaser

        “If you all were at the very least intellectually honest you’d stop saying that because you oughtta at least know those “reputable” folks you point to where calling you folks perverts about a half century ago, mentally-ill about 20yrs ago, and scratching their heads as to what to say about 10yrs ago!”

        So you’re saying they make progress?

        • Royce E. Van Blaricome

          Boy howdy! Does everything have to be broken down to a Kindergarten level for you?

          Pretty sure you know that’s not what i’m saying but, no, it’s likely obvious to most, and especially those Born Again who have the Holy Spirit of God, to see I’m saying that you people are not intellectually honest. That you go with whatever fits your fancy and shifts as the wind blows.

          That you have NOTHING solid to refer to as an unchangeable Truth. Know anchor. Just a boat drifting along in the wind.

          Any old dead fish can go downstream with all the other fish.

      • Croquet_Player

        Ignore medical science all you like. See how well that goes for you.

        • Royce E. Van Blaricome

          Psychiatry is not a medical science. Nice attempt at distraction and diversion though. A typical Satanic ploy that is routinely played but almost always fails with me.

          I just happened to notice something and wanted to take this opportunity to say thank you for admitting that “conversion therapy” is not harmful. I should also say, however, that your claim that “very reputable psychiatric organization worldwide” is another example of Liberal bloviating. Should anyone come back and refute that the come back then is it’s not “reputable”. Dr. McHugh is a perfect example of that!!

          Ya know, since you brought the subject of Psychiatry up again, I’m curious. What do you do with all the documented cases in the Bible of Jesus and His disciples casting out demons? Or, since you brought up medical science, the healing miracles He performed.

          I don’t recall ever seeing or hearing anything in any Psychiatric or Psychological papers about demonic influence or possession. Or Medical papers either for that matter.

          Or are you just another fool who discounts the Word of God as a fairy tale book?

          • Croquet_Player

            “Psychiatry is not a medical science.” There it is, folks.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            No, here ya have it folks:

            From the Dictionary

            Psychiatry – the study and treatment of MENTAL illness, EMOTIONAL disturbance, and ABNORMAL BEHAVIOR.

            Medical – relating to the science of MEDICINE, or to the treatment of illness and injuries.

            Science – the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

            BAM! Ouch! That had to hurt.

            Btw, it didn’t escape my attention that you refuse to acknowledge your distraction, deception, and outright refusal to answer my questions.

            So yup, there ya have it folks!

          • rubellapox2

            Lol, wow… you have to go to medical school to become a psychiatrist, four to five years…research, observation and testing are their tools…you really should know what you’re talking about before you post such drivel…

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Wow! You’re give the Dictionary definition and you still prefer Denial.

            A wise man once said it is better to keep your mouth shut and not show your ignorance than open it and remove all doubt. You should work on your wisdom a bit.

            Now, go Google and see what the results say about whether Psychiatry is “Medical Science”!

            You really should know what you’re talking about before you post such drivel.

          • rubellapox2

            A lie in the name of god is still a lie….

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            How would you know? For one, I thought you said there is no God? And two, how can a Liar that rejects the Truth even know what a Lie is?

          • rubellapox2

            I never claimed there was no god, just pointed out to you that I’m not a part of your vile cult and don’t believe in your version of god…see you’re lying again, seeing and hearing what you want to see/hear…

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Oh, so your blasphemy is only about “my God”?! Ah, I got it. Goes back to the “ain’t worth jack if ya don’t see it my way” line. Makes sense.

            So, tell us. Who or what is this god you believe in? Or will you be intellectually honest and admit that your god is yourself and the idol you’ve created in your own image according to your own will and ways?

          • rubellapox2

            Sigh…. girl, what my religion is or not is none of your business… isn’t it enough to know how wrong you are?

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            First, I’m not a girl. I’m a man. Second, I’m sorry to see you’re embarrassed about your god. But it is understandable.

            You claim I’m wrong but you’re too embarrassed and fearful to state what you base that on and where your beliefs come from.

            Thank you. I appreciate you revealing that too.

            Now, from here on out I think all you’re gonna get from me is the Word of God. I’ll start with this one…

            18 For the wrath of God IS REVEALED from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which IS KNOWN about God IS EVIDENT within them; for God MADE IT EVIDENT to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been CLEARLY SEEN, being understood through what has been made, so that they are WITHOUT EXCUSE 21 For even though they KNEW God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools (Rom. 1:18-22)

          • rubellapox2

            Haaa, my god is everywhere and loves his children… he doesn’t make them gay and then turn around and punish them for it…

            Matthew 7:1-5 “1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.”

            Isaiah 65:5 “Who say, ‘Keep to yourself, do not come near me, For I am holier than you!’ These are smoke in My nostrils, A fire that burns all the day.”

            Luke 18:11 “The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.”

            Luke 11:39 “But the Lord said to him, “Now you Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and of the platter; but inside of you, you are full of robbery and wickedness.”

            Isaiah 29:13 ”
            Then the Lord said, “Because this people draw near with their words And honor Me with their lip service, But they remove their hearts far from Me, And their reverence for Me consists of tradition learned by rote,”

            Matthew 6:5 “And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites [are]: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.”

            Jeremiah 7:4
            “Do not trust in deceptive words, saying, ‘This is the temple of the LORD, the temple of the LORD, the temple of the LORD.'”

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            When the spiritually dead try to read the Book of Life it’s like a blind man trying to read a road map before hopping in the car to drive. You have to get a heart transplant before you can have eyes to see.

            “The unbeliever does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. And he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1st Cor. 2:14)

            God does love His children. Too bad you’re not one.

            “And you are dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you walk according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them you live in the lusts of your flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and are by nature children of wrath” (Eph. 2:1-4)

            Once again you do your father, Satan’s, bidding and twist Scripture just like he did.

            “Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”
            (John 7:24)

            That’s a Present Imperative which means it’s a continual COMMAND!! John 7:24 is the COMMAND TO judge. Matt. 7:1-5 is the instruction as to HOW to judge. I don’t know why I wasted that pearl on you but, oh well, maybe you’ll do something with it.

            God doesn’t make anyone Homosexual. Btw, is it so hard for you to call something for what it is? Can you not speak the truth at all? C’mon, say it with me “Homosexual”.

            “So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” (Gen 1:27-28)

            Let’s see homosexuals do that! LOL

            Then the LORD God said, “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him.” (Gen 2:18)

            Homosexuals don’t FIT together.

            “Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.” (Gen 2:24)

            Homosexuals don’t work there either!

            Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to shine more light on your lies.

          • rubellapox2

            Homosexual, queer, fags, whatever word you feel like using to denigrate a whole group of people is fine… it’s your business and you’ll have to answer for it later, not me… I personally don’t say homosexual because it sounds clinical… no shame on my part..and yes I am a child of god, you again don’t speak for god nor do you know my or anyone’s relationship with god, nor is it any of your business…gay people do have and are raising children, our reproductive organs still work, so wrong again…and yes, we do fit together just fine… that’s just your bias and prejudice talking and not facts…

          • Theo

            So much self-loathing in there.
            Men who act like women always hate themselves.
            You sad old things.

          • rubellapox2

            Haaa, a know nothing armchair psychologist … how cute is that…

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            The first two yes. Not the third. That’s a pejorative and inexcusable. If you find the self-defining terms denigrating that should tell you something right there.

            No, you are not a child of God. Maybe “god” like you say but not God.

            And actually I do speak for God. As does all His children who are Ambassadors of Christ. But thanks for publicly proving my case and that you are NOT a child of God but rather of Satan.

            And actually it is my business because God says so and as Ambassadors of God we know that. But thanks for publicly proving my case and that you are NOT a child of God but rather Satan.

            As for your “.gay people do have and are raising children, our reproductive organs still work, so wrong again” – all I can say is LOL and thanks for publicly showing the definition of spiritually-dead and blind.

            And no, Homosexuals do not “fit” together. But thanks for publicly identifying yourself as an abomination and most definitely NOT a child of God (1st Cor. 6:9-10 & Rev. 21:8) but rather a son of Satan.

            Always appreciated when the spiritually-dead apostaste Posers reveal themselves.

          • rubellapox2

            Hahaha, I don’t know it’s pretty straight forward… or do you need some special decryption ring to read the Bible now?

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            No, I have the Holy Spirit. And you’re right, the Bible is pretty straight forward. So let me give it to you straight again since you obviously missed it the first time.

            When the spiritually dead try to read the Book of Life it’s like a blind man trying to read a road map before hopping in the car to drive. You have to get a heart transplant before you can have eyes to see.

            “The unbeliever does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. And he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1st Cor. 2:14)

          • Croquet_Player

            Wow. You defined three words in a row. Using a dictionary. Big day for you, huh? But you failed to describe how psychiatry isn’t medical science.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            No, I didn’t fail at it at all. You’re failure to comprehend isn’t my failure to define.

          • Croquet_Player

            “There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always
            been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread
            winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the
            false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as
            your knowledge.’” ― Isaac Asimov

            Pulling words out of a dictionary (there is no “the” dictionary) does not support your argument. Psychiatry is a medical discipline, practiced by doctors and scientists. You’re welcome to pretend that’s not true all you like, but you won’t be taken seriously by anyone who knows better.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            My guess is you’ve misunderstood and mischaracterized the Light of the World. But you can take it to the bank and bet the farm that the Light always has been here and always will be.

            The only thing that will disappear is the Darkness and the sin that goes with it.

            You’re welcome to pretend the dictionary (Yes Virginia, there IS a “the” dictionary wne one understands what a participle is) isn’t true all you like but you won’t be taken seriously by anyone who knows better.

            And for the record, it’s obvious you don’t know better. I’m not the least bit concerned about what the spiritually-dead think “knows better” means.

            As I said previously, you’re failure to comprehend isn’t my failure to define. A simple Google search will reveal that just what I said is true.

          • Croquet_Player

            A simple trip to any medical school will show you’re completely, and utterly wrong.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Ah, I see. So if I go to McDonald’s every Sunday, read their menu everyday, and call myself a Hamburger then that means I am one.

            Got it. Thanks!! LOL

            I appreciate you publicly displaying your reasoning abilities for all to see.

          • Croquet_Player

            The pleasure was all mine. And thank you, for displaying your character, such as it is.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            You’re welcome.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Do you realize that those definitions actually say that psychiatry IS medical science?

            Medical – relating to the science of medicine, or to the treatment of ILLNESS and injuries.

            Psychiatry – the study and treatment of mental ILLNESS….

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Well, I have to admit, you actually make a good point there. The definition really comes out more with the “illness”, as you emphasized, than with “medical”.

            That said, there is still a lot of debate within Psychiatry and among Psychiatrists as to whether Psychiatry is actual a “medical science” or whether it is a specialized profession in and of itself.

            I would submit, as with all Science, the problem lies not in the actual “science” itself, but rather with those who create the “science” in order to support their hypothesis. Or, in other words, they start with the result and then work to fit the pieces together to form the result.

            More importantly is when the result that is started with originates from one who has rules out the Truths of God from the start. From there all that is left is Proverbs. 14:12.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            It’s just my unqualified layman’s opinion, but I think it’s all medical. I’ve struggled with alcoholism myself, I think that’s a disease just as much as the flu or something.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            And that proves my point. Alcoholism is n more a “disease” than Gluttony is. But Man tries to come up in his own wisdom and make ever sin under the sun a “disease”.

            And therein lies the falsehood of Psychiatry and Psychology. They’re both “Man-based”.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I’d almost buy it, that “gluttony” is a disease. Actually, I think that is recognized as a disorder, isn’t it,?

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            I honestly don’t know if Gluttony is a recognized “disorder” or labeled as a “disease” or not but it surely wouldn’t surprise me if it were. Which proves the exact point I made.

            That’s a pretty common practice for Man to do in his attempt to explain away SIN.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I don’t know, maybe disease isn’t quite the right word, but I think *gluttony”, or overeating, is comparable to alcoholism. Most people aren’t addicted to food, but, it seems, some are. A lot of people are just fine with having a drink or two now and then…..but not me.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            I agree. Gluttony is comparable to Alcoholism although I would give room to the fact that Alcoholism at least has a chemical substance aspect to it that “may” be somewhat addicting. Though from what I know about it and having had some experience in dealing with a chronic alcoholic who actually was sober for almost a year and decided one day to just up and take off in order to go back and live on the streets as a drunk, I don’t put near the weight on the “substance addiction” as I do the Sin aspect.

            I understand exactly what you’re saying. I can have a drink or two now and then with no problems at all. But there are things that I have to steer completely clear of and not go anywhere near them.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “May be somewhat addicting”? No, more like, it IS addicting among certain people. Your example of the person you knew just illustrates that. He never stopped being an alcoholic, he just got sober for a while, then relapsed. If he had never touched a drink again in his life, he’d still be an alcoholic.

            What are the things you have to steer clear of?

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            There’s no evidence of that. And just to be clear, when I say “addicting”, I’m talking about actual physical addiction due to a chemical substance demand by the body. I’m NOT taking about a psychological desire.

            And btw, the person was a she. The “never stopped being an alcoholic” is just more man-made wisdom that leads to death. (Prov. 14:12)

            As for my vices, I figured you’d ask that.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            It’s a known fact, alcohol can be both physically and psychologically addicting. If you don’t believe that, just look at people that go through withdrawals. (The “DTs” are one form of that…back when I worked at a hospital, I noticed they kept a case of beer in the pharmacy department. I later figured out that that was what it was for, if someone came in with that, they’d give them one)

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            No, actually it’s NOT a “known fact” that alcohol is “psychologically addicting”. That’s more of the constantly regurgitated Liberal gruel that folks are forever spewing and more man-made wisdom. Simple intelligence would show that is something that can’t be proven. At least God forbid anyone ever tries! Hate to be the guinea pig for that experiment!!

            The “DTs” are for the physical/chemical/substance addiction. Just as I said.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Okay….I guess I misunderstood you, I thought you were objecting more to it being called physically addicting. The definition of psychological addiction is a perceived need to use something. Do you really doubt there are people that have that for alcohol or drugs? Or even all sorts of other things….like, say, gambling.

            I still do kinda wonder what you meant by things you have to steer clear of. You brought that up, but didn’t elaborate any further.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Nope, didn’t object to it being called physically addicting at all. Specifically stated such earlier and may have been the one to initially say such.

            Your definition of “psychological addition” proves my point. Mans wisdom. And the oh so common lie today that Perception is Reality. Which takes us back to the context of this article. The perception by many is that Gender is fluid and whatever one perceives it to be – however one happens to FEEL at any given moment – is Reality. Well, it’s not.

            So yes, I really doubt there is anyone who has a psychological “addiction”. What they have is a Misperception.

            That’s right, I didn’t.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I read something a little while ago that I thought was a good point. In a way, psychological addiction IS physical addiction. After all, the brain IS part of the body.

            Takes us back to the context of the article? No, it really doesn’t. You’re talking about gender. The article was about homosexuals. Different topic entirely. Anyway, you’re basically saying psychological addiction is just a way people feel? I’m not really disputing that at all. Just try telling someone who is psychologically addicted to something, whatever it may be, that it doesn’t feel real to them.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Yes, it really does. Ever heard of the word “effeminate”? The non-existent but so-called Transgender is really nothing more than a Homosexual.

            But that aside, I frankly don’t care how “addicted” someone FEELS as far as that being the REALITY of an addiction. And therein lies the problem. Liberals want FEELINGS to dictate Reality. Don’t work that way.

            Beyond that, I’m not buying into your game. Doesn’t work with me. Your assumption that “psychological addiction” is real doesn’t make it some just because you claim it to be in a definitive manner. No matter how many times you do it. No matter how long you do it. And no matter how loudly you do it.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Yeah, I know what effeminate means. I’m just saying, though, that I have personally known homosexual men who could not be described as effeminate in any way. And saying that trans people are homosexuals just doesn’t make sense, given that one can be trans and attracted to either gender.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            I understand what you’re saying and will just say there’s a whole lot more deception, delusion, an denial that goes into that to just take what one sees at face value.

            As for the “trans people”, they don’t actually exist so what doesn’t make sense is saying “one can be trans and attracted to either gender”.

            As I’ve said many times, “thinking”, “feeling”, and “claiming” doesn’t change a Lie to the Truth nor Fantasy to Reality. But I understand you folks wanna keep trying to do so.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I think the main problem here is we don’t think gender means the same thing. I mean, gender is something different from sex. Someone can be biologically male and be of the female gender. Or at least that’s what I think, as I’m sure you’d disagree.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Actually it goes deeper than that. Not only do we not believe “gender” means the same thing, we don’t even believe Truth & Reality mean the same thing.

            “Gender” has historically ALWAYS been defined as “biological sexual identity”. All one usually had to do was look between their legs and the issue was settled. It’s only since the donning of Homosexuality, Bi-Sexuality, and other perversions that Reality has taken a back seat to Feelings and Perceptions.

            Moreover, “science” has made this even more verifiable but the artificial social construct of people believing a lie over the observable natural AND scientific evidence and therefore reality overrides the obvious and verifiable. Which, when one thinks about it is laughable on its face because it is the very same deluded folks who are so quick to cry “But Science says…!!” when trying to deny the existence of the Creator who “made them male and female”!!

            So, since there is NO scientific or factual basis for their claims they resort to the Liberal game of making it all about emotions. Feelings take precedence over reality and in large part because everyone wants to be accepted and loved. But then Acceptance and Love is turned on it’s head by accepting, approving, endorsing, and supporting Deception, Delusion, Denial, Depravity, and outright Lies that wind up harming the very people they think they’re loving!!

            They no longer allow themselves or even allow others to see the actual verifiable natural and physical evidence right before their eyes and instead partake in the Deception, Delusion, Denial, Depravity, and outright Lies themselves.

            Thus the abnormal becomes the norm. The Truth becomes a Lie and the Lie becomes the Truth. Depravity is celebrated and Righteousness is condemned. Good becomes evil and Evil becomes good. Just as God has said.

            Then, once enough people become deluded as well the entire language begins to change and words take on new meanings. Then the more people buy into that the more people will buy into it and so the perpetual state grows exponentially. (Which btw is one of my real pet peeves with the Church! When Christian starting buying into “sleeping with” instead of Fornication, “gay” instead of the self-condemning & openly revealing Homosexual, and talking as if the non-existent exists such as in Transgender, they are NOT being who they are called to be as Salt and Light.)

            And THAT is EXACTLY what has happened with the word “Gender”. There is NO difference between “Gender” and “Biological Sex”. They words are interchangeable. And btw, when looking for the definition of a word it’s always best to go back and look at the etymology of the word and how it was used in it’s earliest forms. That’s a basic rule of Exegesis 101.

            So yes, I’d disagree with the falsehood you put forth.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            And I’ll even add that I’ve personally known lesbians both “butch” and “femme”. I do find it kinda interesting how people who protest against homosexuality usually don’t have anything to say about lesbians.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            I have the same thing to say about all sexual immorality regardless of what it is.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            At least you’re not a hypocrite, I guess. Wasn’t it you that I responded to when you listed a bunch of sexual “philias”? I still wonder how you can consider some of those things wrong or sinful or something. If something is between two people and doesn’t involve anyone who doesn’t wish to be……what’s wrong about that?

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Yup, that was me. And my answer is still the same.

            Oh, and thanks for the compliment. I try to never be.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I have to add one thing. Have you seen my avatar? That little flag? That’s the BSDM flag. So, uh, think of that what you may.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Well, thanks for educating me on that – I guess. Had NO idea there was a “flag” for such a thing. As to what I think about that, I’ll just say you wouldn’t be the first to not understand the beauty of Sex when it is done within the boundaries {I’m sure you are familiar with what that means 🙂 } that God intended and probably the spiritual meaning contained within as well.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I’m an atheist. I don’t care about the boundaries set by a being I don’t believe in. What exactly about BDSM is it that is outside of them, though?

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            I’m a Christian. I don’t care about explaining boundaries set by Almighty God to someone who doesn’t believe in Him because it would be a mute point.

  • Lexical Cannibal

    Setting aside whether I think it’s right to attempt to change a person’s orientation against their will, the fact is that despite what proponents say and no matter how many testimonials they provide, the data simply does not back up the claims. The large majority of those who go into these programs do not leave with the tools to prevent homosexual behavior in a psychologically healthy way, if they acquired sufficient tools at all. This aside, we’ve got ample data showing that, regardless of whether or not they were “cured,” clear psychological damage is present in nearly all people taking part in the program, where it was not before.

    So what do we call a course of treatment that almost never works but nearly always hurts? If we’re being professional, we call it medically unnecessary, but in most other contexts we just call it “abuse.”

    So no, the courts should not rule in favor of abuse, no matter what anyone’s religion says.

    • Royce E. Van Blaricome

      What do we call it? We call it a made up bag of lies that is typical of those who make such claims and have no truth to back it up.

      We call it leaning on one’s own wisdom and ways instead of The One who knows more than all mankind combined.

      We call it Death because it is Sin (Rom. 6:23)

      We call it behavior that leads to eternal torment in the Lake of Fire with all the other unrepentant sinners.

      And that’s just for starters.

  • Croquet Player

    If someone wants to change, it is no one else’s business. The homosexuals seem to fear that some of them are going to tell the truth about this sickening, unhealthy lifestyle. They’re in the gutter, they don’t want someone climbing out of that gutter.

    • This style 10/6

      The only reason a homosexual might be “in the gutter” is because of extreme bigotry from people like you. They should be able to live a normal life without this constant attack from people who take their morality from a 3000 year old text

      • Amos Moses

        but they do not live a “normal life” ….. they live a homosexual life …. and by definition …. not normal ……….

        • This style 10/6

          I and many other heterosexual folk define it as normal. Our definition has as much weight as yours.

          • Croquet Player

            Pedophiles do the same.

            You regard having AIDS as normal. The rest of us don’t.

          • johndoe

            Where did he say that?

          • rubellapox2

            Anyone can get aids, most of the people infected are heterosexuals.. it does not discriminate… people who are promiscuous and careless are the ones who get it, straight or gay… and why can’t you get your own handle? Why make believe you’re someone else? Lies in the name of god are still lies…

          • Amos Moses

            and you and many heterosexual folks are wrong ………..

          • johndoe

            More opinion

          • Amos Moses

            oh …. and it has nothing to do with my “opinion” …………. nor yours …..

          • johndoe

            It has everything to do with your opinion….

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Uh, NO! It doesn’t. Words matter. Words have meaning. No matter how much Liberals try to change them. Why do you think there is such profuse use of the word “Gay”? Of course HOMOsexuals do NOT want that word used because it is self-condemning.

            That aside, your comment is just flat ludicrous. It truly is idiotic. I can call myself a hamburger. Doesn’t make me one. I can go to McDonald’s every single day, memorize their menu, sing their commercials, and call myself a Big Mac but I’ll NEVER be one.

            So NO, your definition doesn’t even come close to carrying as much weight as the Truth. No lie ever will.

          • This style 10/6

            The fact is that LGBTQ folk are citizens and entitled to equal treatm,ent in all areas of society.

            For your information language changes, the meanings of words change with common usage. A perfect example is “gay” as you have noted.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Thank you for showing everyone that you support every perversion under the sun and that the Gov’t should not discriminate against Andromimetophilia, Anthropophagolagnia, Autoandrophilia, Autogynephilia, Autonepiophilia, Autopedophilia, Autoplushophilia, Chronophilia, Coprophilia, Ephebophilia, Exhibitionists, Gerontophilia, Gynandromorphophilia, Gynemimetophilia, Hebephilia, Infantophilia, Necrophilia, Pederasty, Pedophilia, Peodeiktophilia, Pedovestism, Piquerism, Raptophilia, Scoptophilia, Stigmatophilia, Toucherism, Transvestophilia, Troilism, Urolagnia, Urophagia, Zoophilia, and a whole bunch more!

            No doubt Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy, Gary Ridgeway, and a host of others wish you had been in control of the Gov’t while they were around.

            For your information language doesn’t change, the meanings of words don’t change, people just choose to ignore the meaning and accept what they want to accept. “Gay” is a perfect example.

          • This style 10/6

            Here is a bit of 14th century English:

            Whan that Aprill, with his shoures soote
            The droghte of March hath perced to the roote
            And bathed every veyne in swich licour,
            Of which vertu engendred is the flour;
            5 Whan Zephirus eek with his sweete breeth
            Inspired hath in every holt and heeth
            The tendre croppes, and the yonge sonne
            Hath in the Ram his halfe cours yronne,
            And smale foweles maken melodye,
            10 That slepen al the nyght with open eye-
            (So priketh hem Nature in hir corages);
            Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages

            I don’t know those people you list.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Nice try but no cigar. And I’m not surprised. Though I am a bit surprised you don’t know any of those folks. Get out much?

          • TwoRutRoad

            If you know those people, you need to change who you hang out with. I’m glad to say that I don’t know them either. Comprehend much?

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            If you don’t know them, how do you know I need to change who I hang out with? Oops, blew that one didn’t you!

            Comprehend much?

          • TwoRutRoad

            I know OF them. I don’t know them.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            “Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools speak because they have to say something” – Plato

          • This style 10/6

            I thought we were discussing how language changes and I demonstrated that it does. You reply with an inane remark about cigars!

            Why would I know those people?

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            No, the discussion was on why you support every sexual perversion under the sun and therefore it would lead one to thinking you would know them. That, and unless one had been living in a cave for the last 50yrs they’d likely know who they are.

          • This style 10/6

            You laid that language doesn’t change; I demonstrated that it does. For some reason my example was deleted.

            As for sexual perversion, if truly consenting people of any sex decide to indulge in various sexual practices that is their business. It doesn’t affect you in any way.

            That you order your life according to the tenets of a 2000 plus year old text is your concern and nobody objects to this so long as you don’t expect everyone to do the same.

            Your final sentence doesn’t seem to make sense.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Nice attempt at deception and distraction again. I doubt anybody’s buying it. I’m not.

            It’s obvious to the most casual observer thand English isn’t Spanish and Spanish isn’t French. You KNOW what I was talking about and this is the meaning of the words. Nice try though. Always appreciate when Satan’s minion show themselves for who they are and practice their feckless warfare.

            Prove it doesn’t affect me in any way. You made the claim. Not prove it. I’ll bet the farm that God hasn’t seen feet to share His Omniscience with YOU!! LOL

            2,000 year old text? Or 3,000 year old text? Which is it? Having a little trouble there I see. Once you figure that out maybe you’ll actually see that there are PLENTY of folks who object to my ordering my life according to it.

            And, for the record, it’s not “tenets” that I order my life under it is the Word of God. It is the absolute Truth from the Ultimate Authority.

            And again, sorry plain English doesn’t make sense to you. Perhaps a class would help.

          • This style 10/6

            Yes, the meaning of words. Words do sometimes change their meaning over time and “gay” is a good example. No point in denying it because it happens.

            Why would I bother to prove that same sex marriage doesn’t affect you? It doesn’t affect me or anyone I know so I assume it affects no one except those who can now marry.

            The NT is about 2000 years old and the OT goes back to maybe 3000 years, i thought that would be obvious. I doubt that many would object to you ordering your own life by it but they would object to you trying to make them do the same, by criminalising homosexuality for example.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Well, for one because you made the accusation. The fact that it doesn’t affect you is irrelevant. The fact that you THINK it doesn’t affect me or anyone else you know only goes to your continued susceptibility to your faux omniscience and unfortunately god-complex which has deluded you into thinking that you are somehow omniscient.

            As for you “assuming”, well, there’s a very old colloquialism that addresses that so I won’t.

            Criminalizing Homosexuality has nothing to do with making others order their life to the Bible. It has to do with what’s best for Society. Just like SSM. They both are harmful to Society.

            And don’t ask me “Why?” because I’m not going there. If you have to ask you wouldn’t understand if I told you,

          • This style 10/6

            The usual reply; I am not going to give reasons, facts, evidence because you wouldn’t understand. In other words you have nothing, no evidence that same sex marriage harms society.

            On the other hand I can point to Canada where 11 years of SSM has not caused any harm. It comes at the top of the table of responsible government, low crime rates, good education, welcome to immigrants and any other criterion you like.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Sorry to hear that you hear that on a usual basis. Perhaps you should do something about that. Either you’re trolling the wrong sites or, better yet, you should surrender as a slave to Jesus Christ and beg Him to save you so that you can become a new creation to serve and glorify Him. Then you’ll be able to understand and you won’t be hearing that so often.

            So no, not in your other words. Nothing wrong with my English there at all. I meant exactly what I said. You wouldn’t understand if I told you.

            When the spiritually dead try to read the Book of Life it’s like a blind man trying to read a road map before hopping in the car to drive. You have to get a heart transplant before you can have eyes to see.

            “The unbeliever does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. And he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1st Cor. 2:14)

            Point to Canada all you like. I’ll point to The One who is Omniscient, Omnipresent, Omnipotent, and Immutable. Always has been. Always will.

            You’d be wise to consider His truths over Canada’s supposed statistics.

          • This style 10/6

            Man creates the gods that reflect himself, always has, always will.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            The Unbeliever and natural man creates the gods that reflect himself, always has, always will.

            There, fixed it for ya!

            For the Christian the absolute opposite is true. But, again, I don’t expect you to understand that. You have to die to yourself first.

          • Jason Todd

            Non sequitur

          • Lexical Cannibal

            Goodness me, I noticed you commented a word salad on something I said, but you’ve been on a right little tear, haven’t you? Well, no matter, I really only came to address this bit:

            For your information language doesn’t change, the meanings of words don’t change, people just choose to ignore the meaning and accept what they want to accept.

            I was going to write a humorous paragraph about how anyone who even kind of studied linguistics knows that to be demonstrably false, but instead, I decided to just do you a solid. See, if you really believe that, then it’s important you know that you’re actually speaking English incorrectly. If language never changes, then you need to be speaking a dialect of Anglo-Saxon, c.1100 at the absolute latest, to be considered even passingly correct in your English.

            Be þæt geþéode þon cierrede ond geþéode nú cierreþ cwæd.

          • This style 10/6

            I posted the first dozen lines of The Canterbury Tales to demonstrate language change. It was deleted.

          • TwoRutRoad

            I saw that. Pretty odd.

          • james lucas

            For what reason would anyone delete the Canterbury tales? What was wrong with them?

          • This style 10/6

            Beats me. It is a wonderful poem, worth studying middle English.

          • Lexical Cannibal

            Yeah, they tend not to like comments that contain more than a sentence or two of a language besides contemporary standard English. I, too, have had this problem with this and similar places.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            If you understood simple English, you wouldn’t have wasted your time with all that malarkey.

            Let me make it easy for you. “Sleeping with” means to SLEEP with someone”. Fornication means to have sex outside of marriage. Satan and his minions don’t want to use the word Fornication because it’s not as easy to swallow.

            “Cheating” means to act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, Adultery means to have sex with someone other than your wife or husband.

            “Marriage” means the union between a Man and a Woman.

            “Man” means a person born a male., (Or it may refer to the whole human race.)

            “Woman” means a person born a female.

            “Sex” means either of the two main categories (male and female) into which humans and many other living things are divided on the basis of their reproductive functions.

            “Gay” means to be lighthearted and carefree. HOMOSEXUAL means to be one who engages in perverted sexual behavior with someone of the same sex. It is self-condemning because it is unnatural and against God’s created order.

            People like you who soften and deceive by attempting to redefine the language does not change the fact that the true meaning does not change. TRUTH never changes no matter how many people buy into the lie.

            Poison is still poison no matter how many folks swallow it.

          • Lexical Cannibal

            No, see, you’re doing it again. If you want to really tell it like it is with linguistic purity, you really ought to speak proper English, not these dirty French corruptions. Here, let me help.

            “Ætslæpan” means to sleep WITH someone. As in beside them. Cifesdóm means to have sex with someone outside of marriage.

            “Blencende” means to decieve or act dishonestly while “æwbryce” means to break one’s wedding vows, usually through cifesdóm.

            “Gaderscipe” means a union between a man and a woman.

            “Were” refers to a person who was bore male, but you don’t normally say “mann” until you’re using it collectively. Those dirty Frenchmen again.

            “Wíf” means a person who was born female.

            “Gesceap” can refer to either of the main categories in which humans fall by default, though it can also include one’s dispensation, fate, or condition more generally.

            “Gál” describes something happy, light, wanton, or licentious. I’m not sure what this “HOMOSEXUAL” word is though; proper pure, unchanged English doesn’t really have that as a categorical concept. In lieu of a correct English word, I have to once again blame the French.

            If any of these words seem unfamiliar to you, then watch out! The French Satanists may have already gotten to you!

            Or perhaps language really does change and you just can’t concede the point.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Or perhaps you’re just deluded and exercising your deception again. As I said below to the other spiritually-dead troll who comes here to steal, kill, and destroy… everybody knows that English is not Spanish and Spanish is not English and that what was being discussed is the meaning of words.

            Nice try though. My words stand as truth,.

          • Lexical Cannibal

            Spanish? Who’s speaking Spanish? I mean, I can if that’s what you want, but I’m right here with you talking about the static, unchanging meaning of static, unchanging English words. You’re using the wrong words, though! Look it up, if you’re not satisfied; pure, Anglo-Saxon English is well over a thousand years old and it’s so different from this demonic garbage we speak now. Seriously, people laud Shakespeare like he was some master of the English language but that man couldn’t tell you the difference between a gar and a scip. What’s more, he did the devil’s work by making up new words all the time! he even changed the meaning of some existing ones, the fiend!

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Isn’t there a song about the incoherent ramblings of a fool?

          • Lexical Cannibal

            Haha, okay dude, that’s normally the sign that someone’s run out of meaningful things to say, so I’m going to break character for a bit, okay?

            See, it’s been pretty fun yanking your chain over this, partly because you made it just so darn yankable by selecting an objective, verifiable falsehood as your hill to die on. Part of the fun, though, comes from the fact that I’m not actually totally sure you understand what I’ve been doing this whole conversation because it doesn’t seem like you actually take much time to consider what’s being said before you throw some other zany thing out there for me to bounce off of. That’s all well and good—and highly amusing–but in the interest of everybody learning something, let’s pull back a bit and talk, person to person.

            So a while ago you said that language doesn’t change. You said a bunch of other stuff, too, but I was never about that; I was only interested in that one statement: language doesn’t change. It struck me because, well, it does change. A lot. One of the hats that I wear in my life is that of a linguist and I can tell you that language changes at varying, though somewhat stable and predictable rates every single day. A good wikipedia page to look up right now would be the one on “Semantic Shift” which describes how words change slowly in meaning over time, often for really banal reasons like misspellings, different pronunciations, or even just plain old misunderstandings.

            To demonstrate the extreme effect this has over time, I referenced what English looked like more than a thousand years ago. It was completely different. You can’t read it. You can’t understand it. It’s not English as you know it, but it’s still English. It went from it’s weird but regular phonology and its somewhat byzantine grammar to how we know it today, as I’m typing it to you right now. That sentence in my now-deleted-because-the-mods-couldn’t-read-it comment? That was Old English, also known as Anglo-Saxon. So called because it didn’t just develop from nothing; it evolved from a combination of the languages of the continental Angles and Saxons, who settled Britain. That fun little glossary I did? Also Old English; you can look up every single word. Bosworth-Toller’s a pretty good online dictionary for that, by the way. A hundred years ago, if someone was being “figurative” it meant they were saying something that really happened, but if they were being “literal” then what they’re saying didn’t really happen, they were saying it for effect. You may recognize this as the exact opposite of how we use those words, today.

            What’s critical here though is that through all these changes–cierredan, in Old English–there wasn’t ever anyone going “And this is the new way English will work, now. So says the English King.” It was a series of natural changes arrived at by convention. Not only does language change, but it changes largely on its own and, historically, attempts to stop it have been met with…poor results.

            Look, you and I for sure disagree a bunch. Like, probably about almost everything. That’s fine, I can’t realistically change that and I don’t really care to. But I’ll consider myself a good deed done if I can get you to understand the irony of communicating that language doesn’t change in a language that has changed a great deal, in a very well-documented way, over what is actually a pretty short amount of time, as languages go.

            Language changes, dude. It changes and the words you have typed to me to tell me that it doesn’t are the very proof that it has.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Haha, “okay dude”, that’s normally the sign that someone’s run out of meaningful things to say and then proceeds with a bunch of gobbledygook word salad without any dressing on it. Anytime one starts off with “dude” and then pretends to be some sort of professor, you can pretty much roll your eyes and go “Next!”

            So I hope you enjoyed wasting your time and it’s too bad you actually expected me to read all that.

            A wise man once said it is better to keep your mouth shut and not show your ignorance than open it and remove all doubt. You should work on your wisdom a bit.

          • Lexical Cannibal

            That’s the thing though; my time doesn’t feel wasted at all. I had a blast helping you make yourself look silly! You’re all salty, throwing around insults and personal attacks; but have you noticed that between the two of us, you’re the only one?

            But hey, look, I pulled back the curtain and showed you the trick in good faith. If you want to ignore my technically expert opinion, then that’s cool, it’s not like I’ve got any formal education on the relevant subjects (plot twist, I totally do). How you choose to react to stated facts is your own problem, and I genuinely hope it doesn’t cause you too many problems in life. I still encourage you to go look those things up because they’re interesting and informative, if nothing else and while you’re at it, check out the wiki page on “cognitive biases.” I feel like you’d probably learn a lot from there, too.

            Royce, you’ve been a reliable source of rhetorical impairment, factual inaccuracies, and ironic self-contradiction. Good talk. I feel like we’re done here.

            Remember: Semantic Shift, Old English, and Cognitive Bias.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Of course you did. That’s what Satan’s minions do. I’m glad for that too. For two reasons. First, you continue to reveal who you are and completely discredit yourself. Secondly, you give me a blessing every time you insult me.

            “but have you noticed that between the two of us, you’re the only one?” That would be what Jesus calls a Giant Sequoia Tree sticking outta your eye socket. Take a chainsaw to that bad boy and you might just see what your preceding sentence said.

            You didn’t pull anything back or show anything but you just keep right on telling yourself that if it puffs your panties.

            “I feel like you’d probably learn…”

            Once again you prove two things. First, once again you don’t understand English. One doesn’t “feel” that. One “thinks” or “believes” that. And second, “Professing to be wise, they became fools.” (Rom. 1:22)

            Thanks for addressing me by name. At least I don’t have to hide behind some moniker. Regardless of how appropriate and applicable it is.

            “you’ve been a reliable source of rhetorical impairment, factual inaccuracies, and ironic self-contradiction”

            Thanks for the blessing. And showing the Giant Sequoia Tree again. And Hypocrisy.

            “I feel like we’re done here.”

            Ooops! Wrong again!! That’s not a “feeling”. Besides, we we’re done here a long time ago.

            So, remember:

            “Professing to be wise, they became fools.” (Rom. 1:22)

            and

            “There is a way which seems right to a man,
            But its end is the way of death.” (Prov. 14:12)

          • TwoRutRoad

            Sure…turn to any page in your hymnal.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Are you calling God a fool?

          • TwoRutRoad

            I don’t believe God is real, so it wouldn’t make sense if I called him a fool. The fools are the victims of the mass delusion called religion, where billions of people can believe what only a lunatic would believe by himself.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Oh, you know he’s real. You’ve just chosen to believe in denying Him more than surrendering as a slave to Christ.

            Thank you for the characterization though of God’s children. It’s no surprise. But what may be a surprise to you is to know that every time you hurl one of your little fiery darts that Satan gives ya, you are giving us a special blessing.

            Satan knows that but he don’t care. He just likes to hurl fiery darts and he gets his minions, like you, to do his bidding without even knowing it.

            Much appreciated!

          • TwoRutRoad

            No, I don’t know he’s real. (I wonder if God gave you a demerit on your “special blessing” scorecard for not using a capital H?)

            Why anyone would surrender as a slave to anyone boggles the mind.

            Satan isn’t real, either, and it seems to me that calling me a minion is just as much a fiery dart as anything I’ve said to you.

            I’d like to thank you, and others like you, for pushing bibles in school and religion in government. You’re helping groups like FFRF and others to show religion for the divisive and dangerous thing that it is. People like me, who used to sit quietly and let the religious people have their delusions, are no longer willing to have crossed shoved down our throats. Your numbers are dwindling and ours are increasing. Reason is prevailing, and we owe it all to you. Much appreciated!

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Yes, you do know. For God has said so:

            18 For the wrath of God IS REVEALED from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which IS KNOWN about God IS EVIDENT within them; for God MADE IT EVIDENT to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been CLEARLY SEEN, being understood through what has been made, so that they are WITHOUT EXCUSE 21 For even though they KNEW God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools (Rom. 1:18-22)

            And thank you for pointing out my mistake. It should’ve been capitalized!! I doubt God has given me a demerit for that but if He has it would be well-deserved.

            Why would anyone surrender to Christ as a slave? Actually it doesn’t boggle the mind at all. It makes perfect sense. The better question is why would anyone not!! I’d explain it to you but I must be obedient and not cast anymore pearls you way as it’s obvious you’d rather stay disobedient, stiffnecked, and rebellious. IF the day ever comes again where God draws you to Christ and you’re willing to soften your heart, I have NO doubt that will become abundantly crystal clear.

            Oh, Satan is very real which is why it would appear that telling the truth about you is taken as a fiery dart.

            “And you are dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you walk according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them you live in the lusts of your flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and are by nature children of wrath” (Eph. 2:1-4)

            The “prince of power of the air” being referred to there is Satan. You’re either a child of God or a child of Satan. One or the other. Believe it or not. Your unbelief doesn’t change the Truth.

            You’re quite welcome. And I’d like to thank you and your ilk for pushing to keep Bibles out of schools and religion out of Government. You’re helping others see that they MUST make a choice and get off the fence. That they are either for God or against Him. One or the other. And that there is NO fellowship between Light and Darkness. Good and Evil. Truth and Lie.

            Just like the lie about “used to sit quietly”.

            Of course our numbers are dwindling and yours are increasing! Duh!! But it has NOTHING to do with “reason prevailing”. It has EVERYTHING to do with just what Christ said.

            “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.” (Mat 7:13-14)

            So Reason is far from prevailing and you owe it all to just what God has said. You follow the lusts of your flesh, cling to your sin instead of the Savior, love the darkness and your sin more than the Truth and the Light, glorify yourselves as your own god instead of God, follow the course of this world instead of the Kingdom, and the prince of this world instead of the Prince of Peace. It never has been a Numbers Game. It’s always been a spiritual war. And ya know what? WE’VE ALREADY WON THE WAR!!! LOL Jesus is the Victor. The victory has already been won and Death has been defeated. The only thing left to settle is who will choose Life and who will choose Death. For Jesus said:

            “The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come so that they may have life, and may have it abundantly.” (John 10:10)

            So, THANK YOU for giving me another opportunity to shine the light of truth onto your darkness and lies!! MUCH APPRECIATED!!

            Now come on back with some more lies so I can hit ya with some more truth. Come on back to this CHRISTIAN page so I can give ya another little dose of Truth. There’s plenty more of that where it came from – God’s Word which is Truth!!

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “Thank you for showing everyone that you support every perversion under
            the sun and that the Gov’t should not discriminate against”

            I actually looked up most of those just now. About half of them, I don’t see why the gov’t SHOULD “discriminate against” them, as long as its kept between consenting adults. Most of the rest are things that involve breaches of consent in one way or another.

            I mean, seriously, are you really trying to tell me people who engage in “autoplushophilia” (which turns out to be exactly what I thought it sounded like…”furries” basically) are comparable to people like Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer??

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Wait a second, why do you place such restrictions on people? Why limit one’s pleasure to “consenting adults”? Who are YOU to tell someone else what they can’t do if that makes them happy?

            Moreover, what does consent have to do with anything? Why should that matter? Where do you get off telling anyone else that they can’t do something without the consent of another?

            Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying. Not comparable in the sense of gravity or seriousness, just as Fornication is not comparable to Adultery or Adultery comparable to an actual Homosexual act, or SSA comparable to an actual Homosexual act. But yes, they are comparable in that ALL sexual immorality will result in the Lake of Fire when one has not surrendered as a slave to the Lord Jesus Christ and accepted Him and His payment for their sin debt.

            Jesus said, “but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” (Matt. 5:28)

            So the message is clear. BOTH are sins that WILL send someone to Hell and wind up in eternal torment in the Lake of Fire. However, just as there are differing and various rewards for those who are saved, obey Christ, and do the works for His Kingdom, there are differing and various “rewards” (punishments) for those who are not saved, disobey Christ, and do the works of the kingdom of Satan.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “Who are YOU to tell someone else what they can’t do if that makes them happy?”

            Someone with a sense of morality, a sense of right and wrong, which despite what I’m guessing you think, people don’t need a belief in a god to have.

            “Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying.”

            No, it’s not really what you’re saying, actually. Unless I completely am reading that wrong, you’re saying that you – or I would suppose it would be better to say God? – thinks these things are wrong, but not as bad as say, mass murder. Differing and various rewards/punishments, as you said. (tangent – does that mean there are different degrees of being “saved”?)

            But anyway, I still can’t figure out why half of those things you mentioned should be “sins” in any way. I kind of understand (but don’t agree, of course!) why the ones about trans people – which makes up like 5 of them, interestingly – are there, but take the one I mentioned for instance. “Autoplushophilia” I’m no “furry” myself, but I fail to see what would be sinful or wrong about it. So some people get their kicks from dressing up like cartoony anthropomorphic animals….so what? (btw, a quick Google search reveals there are at least several “Christian furry” sites…I knew it. lol) Or, there were a few of those things on the list that basically meant someone has a thing for old people. What is wrong about that, exactly? Is it a sin to have a relationship with someone older?

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            And where did you get that “sense of morality” and “sense of right and wrong”?

            No, I don’t think people need a belief in a god to have a “sense of morality” or “right and wrong”. I know they can have one. But it will either come from a belief in God, a god, or themselves. Which means when it’s “a god” it’s really, in fact, themselves and of their own making. I believe you and I have discussed that before and you lost that argument.

            “No, it’s not really what you’re saying, actually.”

            Oh, that’s helpful, productive, contributes immensely to the conversation. Care to tell me what else I’m not really saying or mean?

            So yes, you are completely reading it wrong. Try again.

            No, there are not different degrees of being saved. Just as there are not different degrees of being lost. One is either spiritually-dead or spiritually-alive. One is either “in Christ” or not. It’s really not that difficult of a concept but I understand why you don’t get it. So I’ll just say the “rewards” one obtains is not related to their condition. I think I was really pretty clear with what i said previously.

            “I still can’t figure out why half of those things you mentioned should be “sins” in any way ”

            I understand. I fully get that. I think I’ve mentioned this to you before but, in case not:

            “But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1st Cor. 2:14)

            When you surrender as a slave to the Lord Jesus Christ and He makes you a New Creation, that and a whole LOT more things will be seen and understood.

            Until then you will have your own “morality” that you created in your imagine according to your will and ways and therefore remain in the dark.

          • Jason Todd

            A person who thinks they should be identified and defined by their sexual behavior are mentally and emotionally disturbed.

            As such, this is what they are entitled to:

            1) A mental health professional.

            2) A mental health facility.

          • TwoRutRoad

            “A person who thinks they should be identified and defined by their sexual behavior are mentally and emotionally disturbed.”

            But isn’t that what YOU do? You identify yourself and others in this way. Does this make you mentally and emotionally disturbed?

          • Ambulance Chaser

            And what would you like the mental health facility to do?

          • This style 10/6

            All Americans are entitled to equal treatment under the law. Something to do with the Constitution.

          • RWH

            Yup. And that is what the Soviet Union did to people who said that they believed in God. The sword cuts many ways. Get a group of strongmen in power, and they get the right to determine who is mentally unstable.

            There are way too many people who would like to “stick it” to others but don’t realize that they can be the victims. Anyone remember Hamon from the Book of Esther?

            Before the Russian Revolution of 1917, people were required to go to church on Sundays by law. Moscow was the city of 1500 churches. In a short ten years, only three were left, and those who attended were often swept off in the middle of the night to mental institutions or worse.

          • Jason Todd

            Red herring. Try again.

          • james lucas

            I suppose this means that the biological male should use the men’s room, and the same issue with the biological female using the women’s room? Is that what you meant?

          • Jason Todd

            Yes.

      • Croquet Player

        Oh, is that right? If you’re an alcoholic who beats up your “partner,” it’s MY fault?

        Prove it.

        What a bunch of infantile losers. Whatever is wrong in gays’ lives, you scapegoat the Christians.

        You’re not adults. Adults take responsibility for their lives. Children blame others.

        • Ambulance Chaser

          Are you someone who created a sock puppet account pretending to be Croquet Player? If so, why?

      • Royce E. Van Blaricome

        I’d rather take my morality from a 3000 year old text that has been proven time after time after time for years upon years to be accurate, inerrant, and infallible.

        Now, just what and where do you take your morality from? Hmmmm?

        Would it be the APA who just 20-30yrs ago called Homosexuality a mental disorder? And not long before that a deviant behavior? Hmmmm?

        Oh, please do tell us all where you get your morality from and what Omniscient, Immutable, Infallible, and Inerrant source that is.

        I’ll wait…

        • This style 10/6

          “I’d rather take my morality from a 3000 year old text that has been proven time after time after time for years upon years to be accurate, inerrant, and infallible.”

          This kind of morality you mean:
          “Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. 18″But all the girls who have not known man intimately, spare for yourselves…” Numbers 31:17

          As for accurate and inerrant how about a six day creation, a global flood, a guy who spent three days in a fish and Joshua’s long day. Not a single one of these is true and I can go on.

          Morality comes from agreement among society and changes with time and place. In some parts of the world it is moral to kill gay men but here they have the same rights as all other citizens including that of marriage. The only problem they have is from gay hating bigots.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            When the spiritually dead try to read the Book of Life it’s like a blind man trying to read a road map before hopping in the car to drive. You have to get a heart transplant before you can have eyes to see.

            “The unbeliever does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. And he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1st Cor. 2:14)

            And no, every single one of those ARE TRUE. You can go on denying the truth until the cows come home if you life but it will NEVER change the truth.

            And one day you will find that out.

            But hey, thanks for telling us all that you think it’s perfect “moral” to kill homosexuals as long as that society says so!

          • This style 10/6

            Your reading comprehension is poor as demonstrated in your final paragraph.

            If you are so deluded as to accept the Hebrew creation myth, one of thousands, as reality there is little use talking to you.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            That the best ya got? If you’re so deluded as to not accept God’s inerrant, infallible Word, there is little use talking to you.

          • This style 10/6

            Censorship, the first action of the demagogue.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Nothing to do with censorship. Try a dictionary. Even a spiritually-dead person should be able to understand that.

            As for Demagoguery, well, that’s all the Left and Liberals really even have. Again, try a dictionary.

          • Jason Todd

            You seem to be confused. You are giving posters the power of moderators. Neither Royce nor myself are moderators. If we were, I can assure you we wouldn’t be talking to you.

          • TwoRutRoad

            So, what is the moral lesson the bible is teaching us with what he pointed out: “But all the girls who have not known man intimately, spare for yourselves…”

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            When the spiritually dead try to read the Book of Life it’s like a blind man trying to read a road map before hopping in the car to drive. You have to get a heart transplant before you can have eyes to see.

            “The unbeliever does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. And he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1st Cor. 2:14)

            Now, when you’d really and truly like to know the answer to that question and surrender as a slave to the Lord Jesus Christ so that you can pick up your cross, follow Him, serve Him, and live to glorify Him the rest of your days, I’d be happy to cast those pearls of wisdom and I have NO doubt the Holy Spirit would illuminate your mind to many other pearls.

            As well as the sins your committing with each of your posts, quoting Scripture just like Satan did, and the additional punishments you’re heaping upon yourself for all Eternity.

          • TwoRutRoad

            That’s not an answer to the question. Please answer the question directly, without all the preaching and judgement.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            I did answer the question directly. That you don’t see it as such is your problem. Not mine. That you don’t like the answer and consider it to be preaching and judgmental is, again, your problem – not mine.

          • Jason Todd

            Wow! An irrelevant verse taken out of context! You win the internet!

          • TwoRutRoad

            So what IS the correct context for keeping the virgins for yourself?

          • This style 10/6

            In context it still means, Take those little girls and rape them.

          • Jason Todd

            Someone disagrees. Your comment was deleted.

          • This style 10/6

            Deleting bible verses now! What next?

          • james lucas

            That is being done in some of the new versions of the Bible, esp the NIV, New International Version, and in the Catholic version that is supplied to Catholic hospitals that is written in basically the same “image” as is the NIV. One basic difference, it still has the disputed books of the Apocrypha.

      • Jason Todd

        So you think morality is a matter of personal choice?

        • TwoRutRoad

          When it comes to things like stoning a person for their sins, I would say that most people (Christians included) make a personal choice NOT to follow the bible.

          • Jason Todd

            I wasn’t asking you. Blocked.

          • This style 10/6

            A great honour; you have been blocked by Jason Todd!

          • TwoRutRoad

            I’m the 4th one in three weeks. Pretty soon he’ll be all alone here.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            OK, so you, me, who else?

          • TwoRutRoad

            One was Chris, and I can’t remember the other. Now I can’t see Jason Todd’s profile.

          • TwoRutRoad

            MarkSeBree was another.

          • Amos Moses

            actually …. we do not stone them … and neither do you … BECAUSE we follow the bible ……….

          • ShemSilber

            On the other hand, the Master Yahushua (Lord Jesus) is far more merciful than many Christians think, for they believe that the wages of sin is eternal life in hell-fire, whereas Romans 6:23 says it is death, and Malachi 4:1-3 says the wicked will be ashes under the feet of the righteous, that is, those who chose to accept the Master’s offer to wash away their sins with His blood of atonement that He gave for us so that we don’t have to die the second death for our own sins. He descended from the heavens to do the work of redemption because He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that we turn from our sins and be overcomers of our human nature, accept His makeover of our character.

            He gave His blood so that we don’t HAVE to be stoned, because He loves His creation and came to save us! He came not to condemn us, but to save us, per John 3:17, right after John 3:16, which tells us we don’t have to perish,that is, go out of existence altogether, but He will save those who put trust on Him. John 6:37 says He won’t turn any away who listen when the Father calls us and go to Him for salvation.

            Believers have changed from being servants of the devil to being the Master’s servants, and they are learning to do things His way. It isn’t easy, and many times He picks us up so we can go again, but it surely will prove to be worth the effort, in the Name of the Master Yahushua, omein.

        • This style 10/6

          Morality is fungible. Once it was considered moral to hang a man for engaging in sex with another man; now they can marry.

          • Jason Todd

            And who makes the decision that this is the case?

          • This style 10/6

            I have just demonstrated that morality changes with time. Ignore it if you like, makes no difference to me.

          • Jason Todd

            You have dodged my question with Barbra Streisand. I am going to ask you one more time: Do you think morality is a matter of personal choice?

            Yes or no?

          • This style 10/6

            First it was cigars and now Barbara Streisand. You don’t seem to be able to stick to a subject which is the nature of morality.

            Morality is decided by common consent which is why we now have same sex marriage and access to abortion. Obviously these things are not based on the bible.

            I see you dodged my demonstration of changing language by having the post deleted, the action of someone who has no answer.

          • Jason Todd

            First it was cigars and now Barbara Streisand.

            Intellectual dishonesty. You know exactly what I meant.

            Morality is decided by common consent which is why we now have same sex marriage and access to abortion. Obviously these things are not based on the bible.

            We have same sex marriage and abortion because of nine people in black robes. “Common consent” had nothing to do with it.

            Further, even as you refuse to answer my question, you nevertheless suggest morality is something changeable. In other words, subjective. It is this way of thinking that brings you people marching naked in pride parades. It also gives you people who kill police officers because in their mind it is the moral thing to do.

            I see you dodged my demonstration of changing language by having the post deleted

            You are mistaken. I take no credit for the deletion of that post.

          • This style 10/6

            The US is not the only country in the world to have same sex marriage and abortion and in most of these countries it was through legislation. In Ireland, once more Catholic than the Pope, a referendum was required to change the constitution. Same sex marriage won in spite of strong opposition from the church.

          • Jason Todd

            Red herring.

      • ShemSilber

        The Scriptures, however old they are, are just as valid today as they ever were. They are still a guide by which to live this mortal life that we have now, and to immortality if we choose to put our trust in the Master Yahushua (Lord Jesus), who is able to help us out of all sin, including homosexuality.

        The homosexual, by his insistence on refusing to repent of what Almighty Yahuwah calls abomination, restricts him- or herself to this mortal existence with a terrible end. These will not be granted everlasting life apart from turning to the Master Yahushua to be washed clean of their sins and given His makeover. Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 still apply today, which tell us homosexuality in abomination in the eyes of our Creator, as does 1Corinthians 6:9-11, where Paul wrote, “…and such WERE some of you, but you are WASHED…”

        In other words, Paul showed some homosexuals in his ministry that they had to repent of their sexual perversion, which they did by the power of the Master Yahushua, and He enabled them to do it. He does not condemn anyone for anything that is not controllable, and He can help anyone overcome sins, to love His Torah and learn to follow it. We won’t do it perfectly as He did, but He counsels us to be overcomers, which means striving against sin, even though sometimes we might slip and fall into it. While we are making the effort, He helps us to be the overcomers that He wants us to BE.

        And when we have finished the race, still being faithful to Him and His counsel, He will welcome His overcomers with open arms into His Father’s Kingdom, omein.

        • This style 10/6

          Yashua, Yeshua and now a new one (to me) Yahushua. Why can’t you guys stick to Jesus.

          Homosexuality is not a perversion, Jesus was a man who died (if he lived at all), the lake of fire is a myth. Too much reliance on the bible stories, and that is what they are, has been the cause of injustice to Jews, gays, old women, pregnant women, other Christians not toeing the current party line and who knows what else.

          Try to shuck off these old shibboleths, treat all your fellows equally and decently. You will feel a great sense of freedom, not having that fiery lake to fall into.

          • ShemSilber

            At the very least, homosexuality is a dead-end practice, because it will not nor can it produce life. It is a perversion indeed, for the Creator made us to reproduce and told us, “Be fruitful and multiply.”

            Do you really care what we call the Redeemer? Or do you care that He died to pay the penalty of all of our transgressions of His Torah and that He rose up from the dead to assure us of everlasting life? He lives to give everlasting life to whomever will choose life through Him!

            If you don’t want to believe the Scriptures, that’s your choice. You will KNOW, just as the prophet Isaiah wrote for us at Isaiah 45:23, that our Abba Yahuwah has sworn by Himself that every knee will bow and every tongue will swear that He is the Almighty One who engineered all this creation and sent His Son to bring it into existence, you included. Then you will KNOW and then, may it not be too late and while He still may be found, you will care. That’s up to you. The Master Yahushua made you with freedom of choice, and if you choose to disbelieve Him, He will not take that choice away from you, but allow you to choose death instead, though He has NO PLEASURE in the death of the wicked, but that we–everyone who will!–turn to Him to be cleansed of our sins, and He will make us fit for everlasting life. That is precisely WHY He, Yahuwah’s only-begotten Son, came from the heavens, to pay our debt for us so that we don’t have to die the second death for our own sin.

            Your choice, and if you choose death instead of everlasting life, nobody is forcing you to do otherwise. YOU have to make the choice whether to ditch the perversion.

            As I’ve said before, our Messiah Yahushua is coming again–always too soon for scoffers, but never too soon for those who are looking up for Him to come and zealously expecting Him to arrive so as to give us our new bodies that will never die. Those who refuse will remain mortal, will die in Gei-Hinnom, the Lake of Fire that was made for the devil and his fellow demons. Neither that nor everlasting life is a myth.

            This is not to cause you to convert, because I can’t do that. I’m only a witness. This is for you to remember in the day of your visitation. If you have time then left to choose life, then it’s still up to you, in the Name of our Master Yahushua, omein…

      • Croquet_Player

        Please note, that creep isn’t me. They are impersonating me. I have an underscore between “Croquet” and “Player” in my name. I have reported them to Disqus.

        • This style 10/6

          I thought something was odd.

          • Croquet_Player

            It’s both creepy and pathetic.

    • Ambulance Chaser

      No, but it is the government’s business if people are promising that they can change you, but the truth is they can only harm you.

      • Royce E. Van Blaricome

        There is NO “harm” in trying to free someone from their sin.

        For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Rom 6:23)

        • rubellapox2

          You can not change someone’s sexual orientation…you can call it sin all you want, but still doesn’t change the fact that it’s innate … those pray away the gay therapies don’t work and are fraudulent…

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            You’re absolutely correct. No one can change anyone’s sexual orientation because there is NO such thing. Can’t change what doesn’t exist. “Sexual Orientation” is a figment of your imagination and it’s a red herring the LGBTQABCXYZ Community came up with as an excuse to rationalize and justify their sin.

            But thank you for once again showing the evidence that what I said is true with your “the fact” regurgitated gruel. It is NOT a “fact”. There’s NO evidence of ANY kind to even suggest it is and, in FACT, there is plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest it does not exist.

            So I think we can all take your “those pray away the gay therapies don’t work and are fraudulent” for what it is. Empty rhetoric from one in Denial who chooses to cling to his/her sin rather than the Savior.

            And btw, the FACT is, prayer does work. I’ve already submitted the personal testimonies for several that prove it.

            Now here’s a little something for your viewing pleasure that also says your facts are not and what the truth is…

            18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is KNOWN about God is EVIDENT within them; for God made it EVIDENT to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being UNDERSTOOD through what has been made, so that they are WITHOUT excuse. 21 For even though they KNEW God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools (Rom. 1:18-22)

          • rubellapox2

            Haaaa, 9 to 10 million gays in this country alone say otherwise… anecdotal evidence suggest? Lol.. no reality and facts show that yes, gay people do exist and are your neighbors, co-workers, and fellow Americans..furthermore 2 or 3 persons who claim they are no longer gay and testified to that “fact” means jack…means nothing…

            Alan chambers formerly the head of exodus, an “ex gay” org, says “I would say the majority, meaning 99.9 percent of them, have not experienced a change in their orientation or have gotten to a place where they could say that they could never be tempted, or are not tempted in some way or experience some level of same-sex attraction,” Alan Chambers..

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Oh really? That’s amazing that you personally know and have spoken with so many sexual perverts. I’m sure that I and others will take that “factual” statement with the same grain and salt and credibility as your other statements.

            Now, why is it that you use the deceptive term “gay”? Why don’t you use the accurate and truth term “Homosexual” since that’s what it actually is? Is it because it’s self-condemning and everybody then knows how unnatural and abominable it actually is?

            Moreover, your faux omniscience and self-deluded god-complex has failed you again. The FACT is I actually do not have any neighbors or co-workers that are Homosexual or participate/practice any other perversion as far as I know. So, golly wally, you fail again.

            “furthermore 2 or 3 persons who claim they are no longer gay and testified to that “fact” means jack…means nothing…”

            Thank you for once again putting the Acceptance, Love, and Tolerance of the Left, the sexually immoral, and the spiritually-dead on display for all to see!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            THAT is SO VERY MUCH appreciated!!!!!! Once again another Liberal Lost Leftwing Loonie touts their mantra of it’s their way or no way. Ohhhhhh, the love, acceptance, and tolerance just oozes from them! LOL

            Since you wanna quote Alan Chambers and FORMER head of Exodus, Int’l why don’t you go to the FOUNDER Joe Dallas and ask him what he has to say???? Oh, wait, you’ve already told us why.

            They don’t see things as you do, don’t agree with you and your godhood, and therefore don’t mean jack.

            Got it!! THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            Rather than quoting an OPINION (“I would say”) that is nothing more than claptrap, why don’t you actually go to the SOURCE??!! Why don’t you actually talk to those who WERE Homosexuals and are now happily married heterosexuals?????????

            Wait, no need to answer that and repeat yourself. You’ve already told us. Their PERSONAL TESTIMONY of their CHANGED LIFE don’t mean jack.

            And that’s because if it did YOU would have to come into the light and face your sin.

            “This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.” (Jn. 3:19-20)

            But one day you WILL come before The One who WILL shine His light on your sin. Right before He hurls you into the Lake of Fire where you will spend ALL Eternity in torment for your sin, rebellion, and rejection of Him.

          • rubellapox2

            George rekers co founder of the family research council, a rabidly anti gay org, caught with male prostitute…
            Michael bussee and Gary cooper co founders of exodus international, an ex gay org, left their wives and married each other…
            And please don’t start me on all the preachers/priest caught indulging in gay sex after preaching fire and brimstone against it from the pulpit….
            Sin is the hypocrisy you and your fellow believers are exhibiting when you throw stones at people you know nothing about.. sin is the hypocrisy your preachers show when they preach one thing but do another….shame… shame… shame…

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            “George rekers co founder of the family research council, a rabidly anti gay org, caught with male prostitute… ”

            Fiery dart from one of Satan’s minions? Why what a surprise! Too bad you’re not as up to speed on how Satan works as you are at doing his bidding.

            As for the rest, here’s the thing – NONE of that has anything to do with your rejecting God and refusing to surrender as a slave to Jesus Christ as Lord. NONE of it!!

            In fact, it might just be that God will exercise poetic justice and have all those and you handcuffed together for all Eternity where you share your torment together.

            Chew on that one for awhile.

            And just to be clear, yes, those who preach one thing and do another are sinning and they will be judged accordingly. Just like you who do the same exact thing.

    • Croquet_Player

      Stop impersonating me. I’m reporting you, again.

    • Croquet_Player

      PLEASE NOTE: This is a creep who is impersonating me. My name has an underscore between “Croquet” and “Player”. They have been reported to Disqus.

  • Michael C

    “Ex-gay counselling” is still 100% legal in California. The prohibition only pertains to professionals who are licensed with the state to practice medicine.

    Parents remain free to continue to force this type of religion-based counselling on their minor children in all of California.

    • Croquet Player

      Oh, dear me. We just can’t let parents make decisions for their own children! How horrible! The state must micromanage people’s lives. Otherwise the poor little gays might get their panties in a wad.

      • Michael C

        Oh, dear me. We just can’t let parents make decisions for their own children! How horrible! The state must micromanage people’s lives. Otherwise the poor little gays might get their panties in a wad.

        Croquet Player imitation account, Perhaps you didn’t actually read my comment. I very clearly stated that parents remain free to force their gay children into this type of religious counselling anywhere in California. The state doesn’t prevent parents from making these horrible decisions.

      • Ambulance Chaser

        Would that include sexually molesting them? Raising them to believe that they’re worthless? If not, why not?

    • Royce E. Van Blaricome

      Another slight of hand trick by Michael C. I see you’re up to the same old stuff. Do you ever get tired of employing the same old tactics from Satan?

      Unfortunately for you the Truth will always prevail. NOT your half-truths which are whole lies. This Law prevents any parent from taking their children to a mental-health professional who adheres to Biblical truths!!

      The article fortunately contains a sublink where anyone can go read what the actual law says.

      I appreciate that because one of the first things it shows is that the State of California is in open rebellion against God and has called God a Liar with their:

      “(a) Being lesbian, gay, or bisexual is not a disease, disorder, illness, deficiency, or shortcoming.”

      Uh, WRONG! God says it is! Much more than a disease it is a sin that leads to Death! Not only physical death but Eternal Death in the torment of the Lake of Fire forever.

      The ineffectual claim by those who have nothing to stand on is always to say “experts say” or “the leading institutions…” It’s empty rhetoric.

      All of those organizations are made up of men who can change their minds on a whim. Some of which labeled you a deviant and mentally ill not all that long ago. God and His Word have never changed. There is a way that seems right unto a man and it leads to death. Prov. 14:12 You and all those who support your immoral deviant lifestyle will wake up one day to that fact.

      Thank you for openly showing the utter ignorance of your “leading institutions”!! Anyone with a functioning brain should know that two people of the same sex could NEVER provide what a heterosexual couple could. There are intrinsic differences between a Man and a Woman/Father and Mother, and NOTHING an so-called “expert” says is ever going to change that.

      Just like Romans 1 says the Truth is CLEARLY known because God has made in PLAINLY KNOWN to them. All one has to do is watch a little child fall down and skin their knee. Who do they run to????? Of course, it’s Mommy!! It’s not rocket science. Duh!!

      • SFBruce

        “All of those organizations are made up of men who can change their minds on a whim.”

        In science, this is called progress. Science doesn’t claim to have all the answers. Rather, it offers theories based on the evidence available at the time, but research continues. New data will either confirm, refine or completely refute existing theories. If you want to reject science because you think scientists “change their minds on a whim,” be my guest. Personally, I’m grateful scientists figured out that surgeries go a lot better when things are sterilized, to name one scientific advance that made an enormous difference.

        • Royce E. Van Blaricome

          Thank you! I appreciate you defining what Science calls “progress”. Finally one admits to just how bogus so-called Science is when it really is nothing more than a means to be accepted by the popular and majority.

          True Science however is no such thing.

          Another satanic/demonic slide of the hand attempting to distract and deceive. True Science leads to falsifiable practicing such as demonstrating that germs harm and sterilization prevents germs.

          Social Engineers and PROGRESSIVE Ideology under the guise of Science is when organizations like the APA and others rewrite their manuals in order to conform with social norms. Has nothing to do with real Science.

          That is evidenced by Dr. Paul R. McHugh’s Transgender Study and published paper. McHugh wrote from a scientific perspective and look at the response from all the sodomites, other sexually immoral, spiritually-dead PROGRESSIVES!!

          • rubellapox2

            Dr mchugh has never done a study nor published a peer reviewed paper on the subject of transgender studies.. he’s written articles for the New York Times and some catholic publications where he gives his opinions on the subject, but by no means an expert… his “opinions” fly against every current up to date science, studies and the consensus of his peers who actually work in the field….funny how you find science ok, when you think it makes your point…To bad you picked junk science to make your point….

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Thank you for proving my point. We both know that had his results been favorable to y’alls POV, he’d still be a reputable expert as evidenced your REALLY OLD regurgitated “his “opinions” fly against every current up to date science, studies and the consensus of his peers who actually work in the field.”

            Funny how you find science ok, when you think it makes your point…To bad you picked junk science to make your point. If you put 100 pigs in a room and 99 of them all say they’re not pigs and smell like roses, well, they’re still pigs. Numbers don’t change reality or Truth.

            For anyone else who may see Pox’s (aptly named) lies, Google “Dr. Michael Brown” and read/watch what he said before his/her regurgitated pablum even began to be spewed. He predicted exactly what they’d do and he/she proves it. He also completely destroys their “by no means an expert”.

            It’s not Dr. McHugh that is discredited but they and their arguments. But, though it’s all they have and it doesn’t hold water in a bucket, it’s all they got. Lies and empty rhetoric.

          • rubellapox2

            Transgender studies are not his expertise, sorry to bring up facts… he never wrote a peer review paper on it, sorry to bring up facts…he is a psychiatrist, not taking that away from him, but he’s not an expert on transgender, sorry to bring up facts…
            Also pigs don’t talk or make claims about things which they don’t know…

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Oh yeah, I’m sure we’ll take that on your authority! LOL Especially after you’ve just told us all that it doesn’t matter what anybody says because if they don’t agree with you it “doesn’t mean jack”.

            You’re not bringing up any FACTS! The FACT is the STUDY speaks for itself.

            And I’m NOT sorry for bringing up the TRUTH.

          • rubellapox2

            What study? Post a study done by Paul mchugh on transgender… go ahead, I’ll wait…..
            Truth? You wouldn’t recognize truth if it smacked you upside the head.. you’re so deep into that nonsense you preach, you wouldn’t recognize truth….

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Don’t wait on me. Just Google “Paul McHugh Study”. You’ll find numerous sites who reference it, including the Advocate, and you’ll find the actual Report itself as well.

            LOL. That’s funny!! A spiritually-dead child of wrath and child of Satan who’s the Father of Lies telling a Christian and Ambassador of the Lord Jesus Christ that they wouldn’t recognize the truth. LOLOLOLOL

            THANKS!! I needed that!! Great way to end my night. A good ol’ belly busting LOL.

          • rubellapox2

            Still waiting for that study…..

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Well, whattaya waiting for. Don’t know how to Google either? Sheesh!

          • rubellapox2

            Why look for something which does not exist? Right?

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Thank you for proving once again that you prefer Denial over Truth. One day that’ll all come to a screeching halt. But, I understand, living in fear of finding out the Truth is a tough thing. I get it. Too bad you don’t.

            You should give it a try. Just go read the Truth for a change. I’ll pray that God illuminates your mind to see it.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            And btw, I can’t post a link on this site so please Google “The Absolute BEST Take Down of Transgender Argument on the Entire Internet” and watch Ben Shapiro completely destroy the idea that there is any validity to Transgenderism.

            I don’t approve of much of what Shapiro says and does as he has too often been crass and uncouth but he’s superb in this video.

            It’s only 10min long. Watch the expression on the faces. Watch how he handles the questions in such a way as to totally baffle the Questioner and leave them speechless without an argument AND all the while using simple, rational, logical, reasonable examples.

            This proves that ya don’t have to have an “expertise” according to your approval to understand that Transgenderism doesn’t exist and is another lie from the Social Engineering crowd who want to turn America into Sodom and Gomorrah.

            All ya need is a God-given conscience and a little common sense.

          • rubellapox2

            You and Ben know nothing about transgender people…that was your proof, how old are you? The folk on the video are stunned because of the ridiculous comparison Ben was trying to make….the point he made was lame… like comparing apples with avocados….

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Don’t you ever get tired of playing God and embarrassing yourself with your faux omniscience? Still living in your delusion that you can somehow read folks minds? LOL

            Is that really best you can do? Just continue to exercise Denial? Really? Please tell me that’s not all ya got?

            There is no such thing as Transgender. It’s a made up fantasy by the spiritually-dead who want to cling to their perversion and sin.

          • rubellapox2

            “Don’t you ever get tired of playing God and embarrassing yourself with your faux omniscience? Still living in your delusion that you can somehow read folks minds? LOL”
            I’m not the one claiming to knows god’s mind and will… that would be you…does he text you or call? Spiritually dead? Lol, better than not being human and having no empathy for your fellow man… you can keep your god, sounds like a psychopath and a bit of a sociopath…

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            No, you’re the one under the delusion that you actually possess the attributes of God!

            No, God doesn’t text me or call. Doesn’t need to. He actually indwells me and He’s given me His Word along with the Holy Spirit.

            Yes, spiritually-dead. Laugh now. You won’t on the day you stand before Christ and you won’t ever laugh again after that either. The eternal torment with gnashing of teeth and gnawing of tongue will forever prevent you from even smiling. Let alone laughing.

            I would think someone of your nature would know what a psychopath and sociopath is but obviously you don’t have anymore clue about that than you do about anything else you’ve said thus far.

          • rubellapox2

            Haaa, scrolled up through all my comments and no where did I claim I had any god like attributes.. but, lying is part and parcel of the religious, I’m used to it…and as for burning in a lake of fire or committing blasphemy, I am not a member of your cult, nor did I ever make a covenant or promises to it… lying in the name of god is still a lie, and will probably earn you the fiery lake of,which you speak….tsk tsk…

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Golly gee, I’m really sorry. I had no idea you couldn’t even tell what you were writing and still can’t even when you go looking for it. Wow! Truly the spiritually-dead are blind.

            Let me see if I can help. Look up the word Omniscience. Then go back and read your comments again. See if you can identify how many times you exercised your faux omniscience. See if you can identify how many times you claimed to be able to read other peoples minds.

            And golly gee, hate to break it to you but lying, while it may be part and parcel of your religion, it’s not Christianity. It’s a sin.

            I don’t know what “cult” you speak of but your faux omniscience just failed you again. I’m not a member of any cult. I’m a Christian. That means I’m a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ. A child of God. Blessed & Highly Favored. Co-heir with Jesus Christ. An Ambassador of the Lord Jesus Christ.

            And it doesn’t matter what you think you are. The TRUTH is that you are an enemy of God and destined to that Lake of Fire if you do not confess, repent, and surrender as a slave to the Lord Jesus Christ.

          • rubellapox2

            “what you’ve just done is commit Blasphemy. That’ll earn ya some special rewards from God for the Lake of Fire too”
            Ooooohh, I’m quaking in my boots..

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Well, you should be.

            “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom,
            And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.” (Prov. 9:10)

            Beyond that, you should’ve read the policy for this site and shown the due respect deserved that is expected of anyone with any sense of decency and decorum.

            One doesn’t have to be Born Again to know how to behave decently and have manners.

            We Christians don’t have to wonder what the Atheists, LGBTQABCXYZs, and other God-haters would say to a Christian who came to one of their sites just to “confront lies and stop privilege” or “give you guys an opposing viewpoint”! No, in truth they are here because they are doing their father’s bidding. Eph. 2:1-4.

            Fact is the trolls don’t even have the common decency to know that you don’t go into somebody’s home and start ragging on them about how they live!!

            But I reckon that’s what I get for thinking that even atheists and the spiritually-dead sexual deviants might’ve learned some manners. Oh, they’ll come back with “this is a public site” but that doesn’t get around the fact they are intentionally trolling a CHRISTIAN page. NO getting around that.

            I’d love to hear from all the Homofascist, Atheist, God-hating trolls, how much time do you spend trolling muslim sites and harassing them? Or is your hatred focused solely on the One True God and His true children?

            Now, here’s a little more light to shine on your darkness:

            “Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.” (Rom. 1:24)

            Lots more light to come…

          • rubellapox2

            “Fact is the trolls don’t even have the common decency to know that you don’t go into somebody’s home and start ragging on them about how they live!!”
            Yet you’ve posted 20 comments telling gay people they don’t exist and shouldn’t be living the way they do… don’t you see the hypocrisy in your statement?

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            No, that’s a lie. I never said anything about “gay people”. Nor did I say that Homosexuals don’t exist. I said there’s no such thing as Transgender. And yes, I did say they shouldn’t be living the way they do because it’s harmful to themselves and others.

            Living in delusion and denial is not a good thing. Whether it be mental illness, and identity disorder, demonic influence or possession, or just living out the lust of the Flesh, they should seek help and most of all they should surrender their lives to Jesus Christ who is the Great Healer and can make them a New Creation in Him.

            No hypocrisy there at all. Just Truth.

            “For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

            For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.” (Romans 1:25-27)

          • rubellapox2

            “You’re absolutely correct. No one can change anyone’s sexual orientation because there is NO such thing. Can’t change what doesn’t exist. “Sexual Orientation” is a figment of your imagination and it’s a red herring the LGBTQABCXYZ Community came up with as an excuse to rationalize and justify their sin.”
            Lies in the name of god are still lies….

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Having a little problem tracking? You’re starting to repeat yourself. You already said that. And I’ve addressed and answer it.

            Here’s some more light for ya. It’s where you’re headed if you haven’t already arrived and don’t confess, repent, and surrender to Christ.

            “And just as they did not see fit [fn]to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,” (Rom. 1:28)

            Now I have some things to do but I can come back and shine more light on your lies if you wish. Just post more of them and I’ll be happy to do so.

          • rubellapox2

            Nope, just quoting you word for word liar… you claimed you never said gay people don’t exist…. those were your words…..

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Golly Wally, I’m sorry you have such a problem with the English Language. Here, let me see if I can help. Now slow down and read this VERY carefully again:

            “No one can change anyone’s sexual orientation because there is NO such thing. Can’t change what doesn’t exist. “Sexual Orientation” is a figment of your imagination and it’s a red herring the LGBTQABCXYZ Community came up with as an excuse to rationalize and justify their sin.”

            There is NO claim in that whatsoever that Homosexuals do not exist. The claim and the fact is that “SEXUAL ORIENTATION” does NOT exist!! Capiche? There is a difference between SSA and SSO and even more so a difference between SSA and ACTING on the SSA.

            SMH.

            So, as you’ve repeatedly shown thus far, it is YOU who is the Liar.

            “You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.” (John 8:44)

            Thanks for giving me the opportunity to clear that up and to shine more light on your lies.

          • rubellapox2

            Oh please, semantics…Either way you state it, you’re wrong… sexual orientations do exist.. homosexuals, bi sexual, heterosexuals, asexuals do exist..you can be a lifelong virgin, never have sex and still be gay, still be bi sexual… sorry, that there is the truth… your light is weak….

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            LOL. Denial. Again. Too bad that’s all you have. That and the lie. No, you’re wrong. Sexual Orientations do NOT exist. Yes, the sexually immoral homosexuals, bisexuals, etc. do exist but that does NOT equate to a orientation!!

            For example, I’m a natural, healthy, heterosexual man who has been celibate now for over 6yrs.

            And thank you for admitting that one does NOT have to act on their SSA. Once again, a desire or attraction is NOT an “orientation”. I’m glad you finally see that now.

            Oh, and you’re wrong about my Light too. My Light is STRONG. Your darkness is what’s weak as the Light ALWAYS penetrates the darkness. You’re just too much in love with your darkness to turn to the Light.

          • rubellapox2

            sex·u·al o·ri·en·ta·tion
            noun
            a person’s sexual identity in relation to the gender to which they are attracted; the fact of being heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual.
            You claim there’s no such thing, but then go on to crow about your heterosexuality… which is it? Does it exist or not? Willfull ignorance is not light.. denial of facts and reality are not light….

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Where’d ya pull that out of? The LGBTQABCXYZ Manual of Debauchery and Deviant Behavior?

            “So God created man in his own image,
            in the image of God he created him;
            male and female he created them”

            God’s Word. Genesis 1:26. Final Authority. Case closed.

            Everything else is just your own made up fantasy to create your own reality in order to cling to your sin and live according to the lusts of your Flesh.

            Sexual Orientation – No such thing! Here, I’ll help ya. Just shorten it to SIN. Takes a whole lot less time and is just as accurate.

            “Does it exist or not? Willfull ignorance is not light.. denial of facts and reality are not light….”

            You got that right! Now go and try to live it out!!

          • rubellapox2

            It’s called a dictionary son… use it one once in a while, you’ll learn something….

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            I do. All the time. Go back to Webster’s 1828 Dictionary or even one 50yrs ago – you won’t find any such thing. A dictionary is full of all kinds of definitions for things that don’t exist. And today’s dictionary often reflect Society instead of the timeless truths of God. Use it once in a while, you’ll learn something…

          • rubellapox2

            “Go back to Webster’s 1828 Dictionary or even one 50yrs ago – you won’t find any such thing…”
            so what?.. computers, flat screen tv’s, Iphones, solar power, PlayStations were not mentioned in Webster’s 1828 dictionary either.. does that mean they don’t exist?

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            So what? Now why isn’t that surprising. So, since you put your faith in the Dictionary written by Men, then you are willing to admit and confess that if they write a dictionary tomorrow that says it’s a fantasy created by the Sexual Deviants in an attempt to justify and rationalize their perversion and sin then you WILL agree with it and leave your sin????? If you are going to use the Dictionary as your Authority you MUST say that’s the case.

            Tell ya what, why don’t ya just go back to the beginning and take what the final Ultimate Authority says?

            ALL sexual immorality is a choice and when it comes to the perversion of Gender Dysphoria, Jesus said it best: ““Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE”.

            NOTE: “Have you not read” – THAT refers to the very Word of God”

            “that He who created” – THAT refers to God. The Creator. When one wants to know the make, model, & purpose of a creation it’s best to go to the Creator for details and instructions.

            “from the beginning” – THAT refers to the “beginning”. If you’re confused about what that means, try your Dictionary.

            “made them” – See “who created” above.

            “male and female” – THAT refers to the Creation. It’s specific and it’s definitive. No in-between, no confusion, no exceptions.

            Jesus said, “‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’?”

            Note: Jesus was not confused, God is not confused, and the true Children of God are not confused by who a Father is, who a Mother is, who a Man is, who a Woman is, or what Marriage is!

            When any God-hating self-proclaimed god of their own universe says “The truth is….”; whenever the sexually immoral that reject God’s truth say, “The truth is…”; whenever the spiritually-dead who’ve rejected God’s truth say, “The truth is…”; you can pretty much bet the farm that what follows is NOT the Truth.

            Btw, I noticed you changed your avatar and took off the wig. Was that for shock value? Trying to bring a bit more attention to yourself? Thanks for doing so! I appreciate you publicly revealing the root of your problem so vividly.

            Now, if you would only see it, confess it, and repent.

            Time to shine some more light…

            “And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.” (Rom. 1:28-32)

          • rubellapox2

            Daaaaaammmm, calm down.. all that for nothing… first off you brought up the dictionary in your lame attempt to back up your claim that sexual orientations don’t exist…they do.. I pointed out your error… so say thank you….

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            I’m calm. Have NO idea what you’re talking about. Don’t you have ANY manners? Gotta show your heart with your profanity too?

            Not a lame “attempt” at all. I know the truth hurts but it is what it is. There is NO such thing as sexual orientation. So just accept it and say thank you.

          • rubellapox2

            Well, ok Royce, this is as far as we go… did not mean to be rude, thank you for your convo…hope some day you realize that gay people are just people, not the monsters you seem to think we are…god bless…

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Well, ok whatever-your-real-name-is, I never meant to be rude either. Only bring truth and light. Thank you for the opportunity to do so.

            I do realize that Homosexuals and the other sexually immoral are just people. I NEVER said anything about them being “monsters” or thinking them such. That’s what you folks always resort to. Putting words in our mouth and characterizing us in ways that are not true.

            Homosexuals and the other sexually immoral are just like every other spiritually-dead person. Totally depraved humans walking around seeking to fulfill the lusts of their flesh and glorify themselves.

            “And you are dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you walk according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them you live in the lusts of your flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and are by nature children of wrath” (Eph. 2:1-4)

            There is NONE good, no not one (Rom. 3:10-12)

            Hopefully some day before you die you’ll realize that, surrender as a slave to the Lord Jesus Christ and get saved. Then you’ll realize it was us Believers who were the ones trying to help you all this time and not those who try to appease you and approve your your sins and drag you into the Lake of Fire with them.

      • Michael C

        If you actually pay attention to what I’m saying, Royce E. Van Blaricome, I think you’ll probably agree with me.

        Science and medicine have been wholly unsuccessful at “curing” homosexuality. There’s zero medical or scientific evidence that anyone has ever changed from homosexual to heterosexual through any type of treatment, therapy, or torture.

        This leaves the possibility for sexual orientation change to the supernatural. If it is actually possible to become heterosexual, it can only happen through God. This kind of change cannot happen any other way without Him.

        Now, recognizing this, it becomes obvious that “healing” homosexuality is not something that all the doctors in the world would be capable of accomplishing. It requires God. God and the bible are the only true therapy that can “cure” homosexuality.

        The government does not regulate religious therapy. The government does not license religious counselors. What these men and women do (as long as they’re not violating the rights of others) is, frankly, none of the governments business.

        The government can only regulate worldly fields like science and medicine. If the worldly fields of science and medicine see no benefit (and very possible real harm) in attempting to “change” gay people, the it makes sense that the government would prohibit licensed medical professionals from attempting to use science and medicine for that purpose. I mean, we’ve already determined that science and medicine have proven themselves ineffectual in this arena.

        Why would it matter if licensed medical professionals were prohibited from utilizing ineffectual treatments when the one true treatment is 100% legal?

        Bottom line, the pursuit of “curing” gay people is not medicine, it’s religion.

        • Royce E. Van Blaricome

          No, I doubt very much that we’re gonna agree on much of anything. You are a deceiver who follows your Flesh, the course of this World, and your father Satan. (Eph. 2:1-4)

          You deal in deception and half truths just like “Science and medicine have been wholly unsuccessful at “curing” homosexuality. There’s zero medical or scientific evidence that anyone has ever changed from homosexual to heterosexual through any type of treatment, therapy, or torture.”

          In that lie is the assumption that Homosexuality is somehow an innate trait. It is not. In that is the denial that Homosexuality is a BEHAVIOR that one CHOOSES.

          The same goes with your “This leaves the possibility for sexual orientation change to the supernatural.”

          NO, what it leads to is the fallacy that “sexual orientation” is anything at all.

          Nice try though.

          Your “If it is actually possible to become heterosexual, it can only happen through God. This kind of change cannot happen any other way without Him” is nothing more than your opinion. It’s a readily apparent attempt to try and bring in the supernatural in order to deceive. Sorry. Didn’t work.

          “Now, recognizing this, it becomes obvious.,..” And there’s the proof. Just another way of saying, “Did God really say…”

          “The government does not regulate religious therapy. The government does not license religious counselors.” That’s another lie. I know for a fact it does.

          “Bottom line, the pursuit of “curing” gay people is not medicine, it’s religion.”

          That’s your bottom line but it is NOT “the” bottom line. There’s a lot more I could add to reveal the lies in your suppositions there but I must run to a meeting.

    • Theo

      If you don’t want ex-gay counseling, then don’t get it.
      What other people do is not your business.

  • Darren H

    You can change your gender,
    but you can’t change your orientation?

    Who says?

    • Ambulance Chaser

      No. You can’t change your orientation OR your gender. If you’re born a female, you’ll be a female, you’ll be a female for your entire life.

      It’s just that some females were born with male genitalia.

      • Royce E. Van Blaricome

        Another lie from the AC. I suggest you talk to Rosaria Butterfield, Sam Allberry, Christopher Yuan, Matt Moore, Jackie Hill-Perry, Joe Dallas – just for starters!

        Additionally, there is no difference between one’s sex and one’s gender. It’s is only a fairly recent phenomenon that the LGBTQABCXYZ Community has drummed up as a way to try and rationalize and justify there perversion and sin.

        And no, there are NO females born with male genitalia. Another figment of your imagination.,

        • Ambulance Chaser

          Any evidence to support any of those assertions?

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Absolutely! Thanks for asking.

            I’d love to provide links to all of those. Unfortunately, CNN doesn’t allow that. So just Google them. Here are some titles for the videos. Enjoy your time watching them! Maybe you’ll actually learn something..

            How Does the Gospel Equip Christians Who Struggle With Same-Sex Attraction? | Jackie Hill-Perry

            The Etiology of Homosexuality. (Homosexuality – Nature or Nuture?) Christopher Yuan

            Secret Thoughts Of An Unlikely Convert | Rosaria Butterfield and Russell Moore

            Rosaria Butterfield: Homosexuality and the Christian Faith – All this is good but I love the part that starts at the 26min mark. Where Rosaria says she wanted to show her on her terms why Homosexuality is a sin. She wanted understanding before obedience because she wanted to be the judge. Andy Stanley would also do well to listen to this and to pay close attention to when she says, “The Bible killed me. If the Bible is true I was dead!”

            Is God Anti-Gay? Answering Tough Questions About Same-Sex Marriage | Sam Allberry

            Is It Okay To Be Gay? A Candid Conversation on Christians and Same-Sex Attraction – A panel discussion with Russell Moore, Jackie Hill-Perry, Sam Allberry, Rosiara Butterfield, & Christopher Yuan

            Oh yeah, almost forgot. One more piece of evidence for you. Wrt to the ” there are NO females born with male genitalia. Another figment of your imagination”, here’s your evidence…. wait for it…. wait for it…. drum roll please…..

            IT’S CALLED A MIRROR!!

          • Ambulance Chaser

            So, nothing, aside from personal testimonials, aka, no evidence whatsoever. Got it.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Yup. Just like in a court of law. We’ve been down that road before too.,

            Thanks for completely discrediting yourself once again and showing that you prefer to stay in your Denial and cling to your Delusion.

            Oh, and only one little problem with your Denial though. That personal testimony that you so easily wish to dismiss is followed up by a CHANGED LIFE!!!!

            In every single one of those cases.

            Which is a WHOLE LOT MORE EVIDENCE than ANYTHING you’ve ever put out. Oh, and the mirror, THAT is FIRSTHAND EYE WITNESS TESTIMONY which is reliable in any court of law.

            BAM!! KABOOM!! Better go back to school and get a real law degree.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Actually, first-hand testimony is considered the lowest, least reliable form of testimony.

            I’m not the one in denial and delusion. You’re the one trying to present YouTube videos and article in Christian magazines as biological evidence. Come back to me when you have a peer-reviewed scientific journal article.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Wrong again. Bet sharpen up those legal skills.

            I’ve provided evidence and you’ve refused to even look at it!! THAT is denial.

            Come back to me after you’ve watched them and bring something that refutes the evidence provided.

            I’ll wait…

          • Ambulance Chaser

            No, you haven’t. You’ve provided personal testimony.

            “They’re lying to the world and/or to themselves.” There, I refuted it. Now you’re going to tell me I have no way to prove that, which is exactly the POINT. We have no way to prove or disprove what they’re saying. The statements are unfalsifiable, and thus, worthless.

            If you hooked one of these people up to an MRI and measured their hypothalamus before gay conversion therapy, and then after, and the size of the hypothalamus matched a control-group gay brain before, and then a control-group straight brain after, and if this procedure were documented in a respected neurological or medical journal, you might have something.

            Stories are nothing.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Thank you for showing all you got and that you think that’s refuting evidence.

            Much appreciated!! The statements are NOT unfalsifiable. Denial and rejection of a truth does not change the facts or the truth.

            Like I said, it’s good enough in a court of law. Sorry, you lose.

            But thanks again! Your denial is NOTHING!

          • Ambulance Chaser

            You keep saying things as if your bald-faced, unsupported assertions were true.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            You keep saying things as if your bald-faced, unsupported assertions were true.

          • Michael C

            I’m only familiar with a couple names on that list but Matt Moore and Sam Allberry are both very honest about the fact that they were never “cured” of homosexuality. Not even God made them straight.

          • Oboehner

            God made then straight, they went gay.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Obviously you’ve not read or listened to much of either. Neither of them would remotely refer to Homosexuality in such a way.

            Nice try. Perhaps you should actually “familiarize” yourself with them and what they have to say.

          • Michael C

            “99.99% of the time any attraction I feel sexually or emotionally is toward men. So, I am a Christian, I believe in Christ, I follow the biblical Christ, I still am attracted towards men, though, like, He has not healed me of that.” – Matt Moore, ep. 133 BC TV podcast.

            “I don’t identify myself as ‘gay’. My concern in doing so would be that it would suggest that my identity is in my sexuality – whether I’m acting on that sexuality or not. It is a tricky issue, because words like ‘gay’ mean slightly different things to different people. But I find ‘same-sex attracted’ to be a more accurate descriptor for me.” – Sam Allberry in an interview with Preston Sprinkle, explaining that he has not been “cured” of homosexuality.

            Neither of these men have magically “changed” their sexual attractions.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            There’s no “magic” to it. No “magic” involved. Rather it’s a supernatural work of God. It’s called being “Born Again”. It’s called being made New Creation.

            Which one must first surrender to Christ as a slave. You should try it sometime.

            And btw, for anyone else who happens to be following this or see it, don’t take this lying deceivers word for anything regarding Matt Moore, Sam Allberry, or any of those others I posted.

            Go to the video and watch it for yourselves. See what they have to say themselves. Something that Michael C obviously refuses to do – lest he come to the light. (Jn. 3:19-20)

          • Oboehner

            Instead of asking for evidence, produce some of your own.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            His assertion, his burden.

          • Oboehner

            So your statement on sexual orientation doesn’t count?

          • Ambulance Chaser

            What on Earth are you talking about?

          • Oboehner

            Either you’re attempting a dodge or you have no clue as to what you’re posting, either way…

    • Royce E. Van Blaricome

      Just another example of Prov. 14;12 at work.

  • Ambulance Chaser

    One of the legal scholars from this site should inform Brad Dacus and the Pacific Justice Institute that the Constitutional Right to Privacy was invented by case law in Griswold v. Connecticut, and therefore doesn’t exist.

    Although I do relish the irony in the PJI citing case law created by a ruling that they would have vehemently opposed had they existed at the time.

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    Children need education by Christian morality. People do evil when they get educated that it’s okay to have lust over anyone in existence or appetite over fellow human beings. The Western civilization needs Judeo-Christian values to stay civilized.

    • https://jimmy-console.bandcamp.com/ Jimmy Console

      not really, there’s Christian billionaires destroying the planet as we speak, so obviously their morals make no difference to their greed

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        Planet Earth cannot be spared anyway because mankind kill unborn children. Repent of your sin and get ready for the Judgment Day for your soul before it’s too late. John 3, Romans 8, jude 1, and Revelation 20-22.

        • TwoRutRoad

          Since the date of my birth there have been 62 Judgement Days that have come and gone. That’s more than 1 a year. What’s your predicted date for the next one?

      • Royce E. Van Blaricome

        Are you omniscient? What Billionaires do you speak of who are Christian?

        Secondly, so what if they are? Have you not read Genesis 1:26? Are you an Earth Worshipper? Do you worship the Creation instead of the Creator?

        • https://jimmy-console.bandcamp.com/ Jimmy Console

          Most of the so called Christian billionaires are in Trump’s cabinet. No I don’t believe in a creator but respecting the Earth, and Human Beings is a good start.

    • rubellapox2

      Not my children, don’t want them to be nasty liars… keep your crap to yourself…

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    Scholars should honestly publish the racial and GNP and age proportion of those who claim homosexuality and transgenderism and tackle the problems properly. Mankind should never be made submit to the warped secular Western culture, no matter how rich and powerful and controlling the West is. Everyone should have rights to normality and morality along with human rights and freedom. No morality = No happiness. Mankind shouldn’t be made bow to the destructive depraved sexual immorality only a few decades after being liberated from the racism’s atrocities from the West. The Westerners are not good if they do not adhere to Christianity. Mankind need Christianity for human rights and freedom.

  • http://www.gmail.com/ David van Heerden

    Surprisingly, this ill-considered worldly ban on changing the religion of sodomites is supported by scripture: Romans 1 says that the reason people get into “same sex attraction” and unseemly and inconvenient behavior is that they have counted God’s truth as unrighteousness, they have not given God glory nor thanks, despite what he showed them, and they have been GIVEN OVER to their reprobate mind in God’s wrath. Evolution is being taught in schools as reason to reject God, and many do, and follow the path to wrath. They have rejected the truth, and God has rejected them. “But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,” If God has already revealed his wrath against them, then how will they obtain salvation? Can they even be brought to faith?

    • TwoRutRoad

      “Can they even be brought to faith?”
      Not the way you’re going about it. You try to scare them straight, but all you do is scare them off.

      • Royce E. Van Blaricome

        Once again you’ve shown your ignorance of Scripture and basic Salvific Theology.

        Can’t scare somebody off who’s already off. And NOTHING any man does can EVER overpower the Holy Spirit.

        • TwoRutRoad

          “Can’t scare somebody off who’s already off.”
          Well, you can certainly push them further away. After all, you can catch more flies with honey, than you can with vinegar.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Uh, NO. WRONG again. We’ve been down this road before. And I see you didn’t take any of my counsel seriously. Rather you’ve clung to your bad and FALSE Theology.

            Get it straight!! A spiritually-dead person is spiritually DEAD!!! Got it??

            And thanks for adding your cute little colloquialism. I’m glad you showed everyone exactly what God meant when He wrote Prov. 3:5-7 and Prov. 14:12

          • TwoRutRoad

            You’re only proving my point with more vinegar.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Thanks for proving the Word of God true.

          • TwoRutRoad

            That would make me the first person in the history of the world to prove it. Woo-hoo! I’m gonna be famous! And RICH!

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            You’re not even close.

          • RWH

            No, you’re just proving that God lied when He said that he loved the world and whosoever will may come. You have a vicious version of Calvinist theology which says that God has predestined some for hell and they can’t do anything about it. God’s Word never returns void. The problem is the same as it was in Jesus’ day. Self-appointed pharisees insert themselves between Christ and mankind. Along with Satan, they scream that God doesn’t love them nor want them because they’re just too unlovable. Step away from the situation. Let God do His work, and let people come to him. He does not need his so-called cheerleaders to discourage people or to set up arbitrary rules based on an idiosyncratic reading of Scripture..

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            LOL. Do you realize how ridiculous of a statement that is? Like I could prove God to be a Liar? LOL

            Moreover, your faux omniscient and lousy self-imposed god-complex has failed you most miserably. I’m about as far from a Calvinist as one could get!! LOL

            You folks truly are funny at times. Thanks for the LOL. I needed that. Enjoyed it!

            For the record, I’m not a Supralapsian, not an Infralapsarian, not even a Calvinist. So you sir are a Liar. Now run along and look up Rev. 21:8

            Thanks for showing your faulty theology so clearly. God has spoken and I’ll rely on His Word instead of your lies. Romans 3 and John 6:44 expose your lies. Thank you very much!

            Now that you’ve proven to be in the Flesh and very likely a Poser AND so arrogant as to speak for God falsely, what else do you have to say?

            Before you answer that, I’ll leave you with this:

            A wise man once said it is better to keep your mouth shut and not show your ignorance than open it and remove all doubt. You should work on your wisdom a bit.

            “Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools speak because they have to say something” – Plato

          • Amos Moses

            you can catch even more with manure ….. and they are flocking to you ……… lord of the flies ………

      • http://www.gmail.com/ David van Heerden

        I’m not trying to scare anyone straight – I’m happy enough to simply scare them off. They know the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death.

        • TwoRutRoad

          Nice. Keep it up. You’ll scare off all kinds of people with that crap. Completely heartless, cruel and sickening.

          • http://www.gmail.com/ David van Heerden

            Glad to help. Just keep walking by buddy. Nothing to see here.

  • Royce E. Van Blaricome

    I said probably close to a decade or so ago that this was coming. It is nothing other than an attempt to snuff out the light of truth. When the Government which primarily falls under:

    And you are dead in your trespasses and sins,in which you walk according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them you live in the lusts of your flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and are by nature children of wrath” (Eph. 2:1-4)

    can pass laws that prevent a parent from exercising their God-given duty and Constitutional right to train up a child in the way they shall go, Satan begins to win the battles in ever increasing numbers. We are already seeing this on college campuses and even all the way down to Kindergarten with some of the forced curriculums.

    Moreover, when we get to that stage, which it appears some of America is already in, we are just one step away from the Government coming in to a Christian’s home, taking their children away, and handing them over to the Sodomites and other sexually perverse.

    And they will do it all in the name of what’s best for the child’s welfare.

    • Michael C

      can pass laws that prevent a parent from exercising their God-given duty and Constitutional right to train up a child in the way they shall go

      It appears you’re mistaken. This hasn’t happened. Parents remain free to raise their children to believe whatever they want. They remain free to seek out counselling to attempt to force their gay children to “change” to straight. The only difference now is that the counselor is not allowed to call this kind of treatment ‘professional medicine’ because it’s not. It’s religious counselling.

      • Oboehner

        Gay is a learned behavior and can be unlearned, denial doesn’t change anything.

        • This style 10/6

          No, it isn’t and you saying so doesn’t make it so.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Yes, it is and you saying it’s not so doesn’t make it so.

          • DrewTwoFish

            Well, that’s an impressive argument.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Thank you. Just as impressive as the one I replied to, huh!

          • DrewTwoFish

            No, because he’s right. Saying the earth is flat ad infinitum doesn’t make it so. Unfortunately, false information can be believed and can cause harm.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Nom because he’s wrong. Just as you are. But thanks for proving me right by my saying my “argument” was just as impressive as his because he’s the one calling the earth flat.

            The fact you can’t see he’s wrong isn’t surprising. That was readily apparent by your original comment. Hypocrisy always brings the error into clearer focus.

            Ya know, if y’all would drop the hypocrisy and just try to be a little more intellectually honest and reject the double-standards, ya all might just have a tad bit more credibility.

          • DrewTwoFish

            Intellectually honest? Give me a break. God hasn’t seen fit to grow new limbs for amputees, restore burn victims, etc. Nor has he seen fit to change sexual orientation. Can people adapt to challenges and change their behaviour? Yes, sometimes. But attraction and action are not one in the same.

            Xians might have more credibility if they accepted these realities instead of twisting reality so that it fits with their particular interpretation of the Bible.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Yes, intellectually honest. Give you a break? Why? How do you know that God hasn’t seen fit to grow new limbs for amputees, restore burn victims, etc.? And you most certainly have NO clue as to whether God has seen fit to change sexual orientation. I can say that because there is no such thing as “sexual orientation”. That is a man-made term created in order to justify one’s sin and rebellion. That’s all it is.

            As for people “adapting”, you’ve completely missed the reality of what happens when one is Born Again. When one surrenders as a slave to Jesus Christ, begs for forgiveness, and begs to be saved from the penalty of their sins so they can serve their Lord & Master Jesus Christ, they go from being spiritually-dead to ALIVE!

            Jesus said He came so that you might have Life and have it abundantly!!

            And thank you for making the case for Christians against Homosexuality and SSM with your “But attraction and action are not one in the same.” You’re absolutely correct there! Just because one has a sinful desire and is attracted to doing something that is wrong doesn’t mean they have to act on it. I appreciate your honesty there.

            Atheists might have more credibility if they accepted these realities instead of twisting reality so that it fits with their particular whims at whatever moment in time they happen to be in according to their own self-written bible.

            Christians have reality because Reality in found in Truth and Truth is found in the Bible – God’s inerrant, infallible, timeless Word. As for the “particular interpretation”, that dog don’t hunt.

            “But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation for the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost” (2nd Peter 1:20-21)

            Nice try though.

          • DrewTwoFish

            Throwing scripture at me doesn’t make water wet or east west. I can’t carry on a conversation with someone who plugs their fingers in their ears and covers their eyes. Bye now!

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Water is already wet and east will never be west so not sure what that’s supposed to meet.

            As for who’s plugging their ears with their fingers and covering their eyes, I think everyone can see clearly who that is now!

            Thank you for showing God’s Word true again.

            “So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth;
            It will not return to Me empty,
            Without accomplishing what I desire,
            And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it.” (Isa. 55:11)

            “This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.” (Jn. 3:19-20)

            Bye.

          • DrewTwoFish

            Whoops..”water dry…”
            …………………………………….

            As for the rest, ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Thanks for proving the above two Scriptures truth again.

          • DrewTwoFish

            Yawn**

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Thanks for proving the above Scriptures truth again.

          • DrewTwoFish

            “Wow. Repeating myself is just like having a cohesive argument and providing evidence. Yay!”

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            Bingo. You’ve yet to do so. Except you keep proving God Word’s true. So come on back and I’ll give some more!

            Here’s what you’d be saying if you were a Believer and had wisdom:

            “Your word I have treasured in my heart,
            That I may not sin against You.” Psa. 119:11

          • DrewTwoFish

            No, you misunderstanf me. Inmean real world evidence.

          • Royce E. Van Blaricome

            No, I didn’t misunderstand you. I can even understand what you just wrote!

            I gave you real evidence. Your so-called “real world evidence” is worthless.

            For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. (1Cor 1:21)

            For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God. For it is written, “He is THE ONE WHO CATCHES THE WISE IN THEIR CRAFTINESS” (1Cor 3:19)

            Thanks for allowing me to shine more Light.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            His schtick is to sarcastically and disingenuously “thank” people as a way of insulting them and of announcing how clever he is. He repeatedly says nothing but acts incredibly pleased with himself about it.

          • DrewTwoFish

            Nailed it. Another winsome online Cindie.

          • Oboehner

            Yes it is and you denying that fact doesn’t make it not so.

        • rubellapox2

          Really? Where did you study gay? What university or college teaches it?

          • Oboehner

            It’s all around and plain to see.

      • Royce E. Van Blaricome

        :It appears you’re mistaken.,” John 7:24.

        “This hasn’t happened.” Yes it has. “Parents remain free to raise their children to believe whatever they want.” That’s just a completely idiotic and foolish statement on its face. No other comment is necessary. The same with your other foolishness.

  • PilgrimGirl

    Even if the ban is abolished, even if this so-called therapy is made lawful, it doesn’t amount to a hill of beans!! The problem is in the heart – the nature – the mind and the will. “Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may you also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.” We need a new mind, a new will – a new nature! – but we can’t work it. Only the triune God, revealed in His Word, can do that. Unfortunately, He isn’t being preached from the vast majority of pulpits in America. A weak, helpless, beggar god who loves everybody, who wants to do but can’t bring his will to pass, is being preached. No wonder we think so little of God and so much of ourselves.