Superintendent Apologizes After Student Prayer Group Halted by Principal

AMELIA, Va. (WWBT-TV)  Parents are outraged after a situation involving a group of students praying at school on Thursday.

Amelia County Public Schools says it was all a “misunderstanding and miscommunication.” Superintendent Dr. Jack McKinley acknowledges to NBC12 that the four-year principal of the school stopped a group prayer that students began in the hallway, in between classes.

“Moving forward together” – that’s the message on the marquee at Amelia County High School, just one day after a group of eight or nine students were threatened with suspension for praying during passing period.

“There’s been a lot of hatred and aggression in our schools,” said Matthew Dunn. He organized the prayer.

Continue reading this story >>

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  • Robin Egg

    Outstanding young men! That principal is delusional and pathetic. No wonder they were praying for the hatred and aggression in their school. It’s coming from the top on down. God bless you parents for raising fine kids.

    • Lark.62

      The principal made a mistake and corrected it.

  • Tony Demarcus, Ph.D., D.D.

    This is the kind of situation that needs to get more attention from Christians. I often preach at high schools, and if only I wasn’t on the West Coast, I would’ve considered to preach at that school, and to that principal! It is most important that we do not let this slide, and I call on any Christian (Bible believing, KJVO) to preach there and demand that this unnamed principal join these young men in prayer and repent for his persecution of Christians.

    • Michael C

      …and demand that this unnamed principal join these young men in prayer and repent for his persecution of Christians.

      What? This is a disturbing comment. Like, government-enforced-sharia disturbing.

      I’m all for these students exercising their rights but you’re taking this full tilt to impede other people’s freedoms. Well done, dominionist person.

      • Tony Demarcus, Ph.D., D.D.

        You would deny that milquetoast principal the possibility of Salvation?

        • MCrow

          You do realize this is the logic of Islamic theocracies and Sharia law?

          • Tony Demarcus, Ph.D., D.D.

            MCrow:

            The issue with sharia law is not so much in the details–though there are too many of these to be ignored–as the spirit behind them, duh! Sharia comes from the fraud, terrorist, and child molester Moohamad (pigs be upon him), and it is against the Christian Bible. Who cares what logic they use when the foundation of this logic is of satan?! It is high time that we started a real Christian Crusade against the Moohamadans to get their primitive creed out of this country once and for all!

          • MCrow

            Ah, a dominionist. I’ll just go ahead and back out as logic isn’t going to work on you

          • Eldrida Urika

            Yup that there’s Christian love showing! NOT.

        • Lark.62

          We do not live in a theocracy. We are governed by laws.

          The law that governs religious activity in schools is the Equal Access Act, written by Christians and signed by Ronald Reagan. Google it.

          You have a right to believe whatever you want. I have a right to send my children to public school without some religious nut proselytizing to them behind my back. My children, who have thought through their beliefs, have a right to attend school without being coerced into praying to someone else’s god.

          • TruthvLIes

            You really have got your knickers in a twist over this idea of proselytising haven’t you.

            Say your kid strikes up a conversation with another kid and in the course of the conversation he says I believe that because I am a christian, is he proselytising?

          • Lark.62

            Of course kids have the right to discuss their own beliefs. Your kid can talk about why he’s can Christian. My kid can talk about why he’s an atheist. Your kid can bring a bible. My kid can bring God: The Most Unpleasant Character in All of Fiction (which he does). Your kid can form a Bible Study club. My kid

          • TruthvLIes

            So when is it proselytising and when is it not proselytising?

            If my kid says to your kid in conversation “you should give your life to Jesus because he has promised abundant life. Atheism can’t give you that.”

            Is that proselytism?

          • Lark.62

            The school cannot allow outside adults to come into the school to spread a religious message – for or against.

            Students can talk about their beliefs with each other as long as all parties are okay with it and it doesn’t become bullying.

            A student can talk about the life changing benefits of basket weaving and try to convince others. But when someone else says ”Enough. I don’t want to listen to more talk on basket weaving” the other student should respect that.

            Change the labels. If an atheist were talking constantly about atheism and your kid didn’t want to hear about it, what should the rules be?

        • Lark.62

          What school were you at when that happened?

    • Lark.62

      Given the letters after your name, it appears you are not a high school student.

      One might also assume you would be able to understand laws governing religious activity in public school.

      You do not have the right to use the government authority that assembled other people’s kids in one location as an aid to your proselytizing. These students have a right to pray in public school. You do not. And every other student has the right to attend school without being proselytized by you.

      • Tony Demarcus, Ph.D., D.D.

        Lark, what the heck do you mean, the Christian has no right to minister to children at high schools!
        These schools are public property and the Christian has every right to stand in front of the school, on public sidewalk, with appropriate banners, with a megaphone, dressed nicely and properly to preach the Bible to these young people. Whether their parents like it or not! And it’s not so difficult to do either, so long as the preacher is well trained in this kind of ministry. Nice car, nice clothes, a big Christian Bible so that they can see that all we preach comes directly from our KJV. It makes it especially easy when we get various satanists (the group which includes everyone who’s not a real Bible-believing Christian, Matt 12:30) come out with their phoney excuses are made to look the fools that they are by the preacher.
        That’s why real Christian churches keep growing, while false churches are declining by the day!

        • ThroatwobblerMangrove

          Which ones are the false ones, and which are the “real” ones? You ARE familiar with the No True Scotsman fallacy I assume?

          Let me go out on a limb here and guess that you’re suggesting the ultra-conservative churches are the “real” ones and those that have the nerve to treat gay people like real human beings and welcome them are the “false” ones.

          • Tony Demarcus, Ph.D., D.D.

            ThroatwobblerMangrove:

            First of all what kind of moniker is that? Are you another homofag that thinks promoting your disgusting agenda on a Christian web site will yield recruits to your cult? NOT! But you may motivate more real Christians to come to your shame parades and preach against your perversion, in the name of Jesus!

            Relative to your question about the so-called “No True Scotsman” fallacy, why are you trying to make a fool of yourself? If you opened a book of logic even a percent of times the Christian opens and reads the KJB, and read what’s contained within you would know that this pagan falacy only applies where a definition of the group member is not available. Therefore, you need to wipe the pasta off your face, and open the Bible pronto! There you will find what defines Christians, as opposed to pagans.

            Since we know for a Biblical fact the behaviors and actions of Christians, and since the Bible commands us to judge all and to separate from from false “in-the-name-only” “Christians”, we can know who is a false Christian by judging them Biblically. It’s very simple math, really–the true Christians believes the Bible and follows it ALL!

          • ThroatwobblerMangrove

            Regarding my moniker, it’s no more strange than yours, Dr. Dominionist. Yes, I’m sure there are lots of Ph.D.’s out there who want a Christian version of Sharia law. So you are dishonest right out of the gate.

            Also, just letting you know that epithets like “homofag” will get you and YOUR cult kicked off this board pretty quick. Ignore me at your peril…I’ve seen it happen many times. Take a cue from the other fundamentalists here and try to couch your hate in a more subtle choice of language.

            No True Scotsman isn’t a “pagan” fallacy, it’s a logical one. Has it escaped you that ALL Christians use the Bible? Bit of a problem for you then, isn’t it, when none of you can agree about anything and you’re all using the same holy book. I mean how seriously are we supposed to take you when you don’t even consider Catholics (the ORIGINAL Christians) to be Christians at all? You must have changed the rules over the years or something but I’m guessing most of your True Christians™ didn’t get the memo.

          • Tony Demarcus, Ph.D., D.D.

            Wobbler:

            Has it escaped you that only the true Christians use and FOLLOW the CHRISTIAN Bible? And guess what, there is something called the “fundamentals of faith” in Christianity. You know where it is found? In our KJB! Therefore, any Christian that studies the Word of our Savior, knows what it says and follows it to the letter–in it’s full historical and grammatical context! It only logically follows that we can identify those that do not as not being real Christians, and there can be no disagreement about it because the Christian Bible says it all in plain and simple English!

            A word of advise here: Jesus gave you a brain, try using it!

          • ThroatwobblerMangrove

            I’ve heard it all before, Tone. You’re the superior Christian because you believe in the Bible. And not just any Bible, but the KJV (and do a bit of research sometime on what a “homo***” King James was…)

            Let’s not even get started on what a piss poor translation it is.
            I’ve got your number, Doc. You’re a Christian supremacist, not a Christian.

          • Tony Demarcus, Ph.D., D.D.

            Wobbler:

            Why do you insist on making a fool out of yourself? If you heard it all before–presumptively the fact that claims of KJs’ faggotry were a Cathlic slur that emerged years after his passing–you are only exposing yourself for the nincompoop that you are by making it obvious that you learned nothing!

            Relative to the things that you’ve “heard”, have you heard the fact that there is only one type of REAL Christian–the one that believes (and therefore follows) ALL of the Christian Bible? And all the others, are false, a.k.a. cultural “Christians” on the way to hell? Maybe if you accepted the true Jesus of the Christian Bible, you would’ve had the wherewithal to understand this very simple Biblical fact!

          • ThroatwobblerMangrove

            This is what we’re dealing with here, Doctor Dominionist. You at some point in your life embraced Christianity. That’s fine. Somewhere along the way though, you had some idiot, or maybe several idiots, tell you that in order to be a good Christian meant that you had to be a homophobic, misogynist, xenophobic hatemonger. Worse, that it wasn’t enough for you to be all those things, but to tell the rest of us that that’s what we need to be too if we want to be members in good standing in your afterlife club. As if I’d want to spend an eternity, never mind two minutes, with anyone who honestly feels that way.

            No no, Doc. It doesn’t work that way. Why don’t you take your platitudes back to your little elite club of true Scotsmen, sorry, I mean Christians, and let the rest of us decide for ourselves who and what to like and hate?

          • Eldrida Urika

            Actually Jesus told us not to act like the way he is implying that Christians believe.We are to love all people and be kind and compassionate toward anyone who has needs we can fill.
            We are not supposed to be hateful in any way as hate is evil which is darkness and love is good and light. We are supposed to explain that sin is a way to hurt others, and that by avoiding sin, it will bring more love into the world.
            I find it amazing when Christians claim to follow Jesus then show hatred for another person. It is SO much against everything that Jesus stood for. It is not a Fruit of the Spirit so they cannot be following all of Jesus’ Word or they would behave properly and with love towards all people.

          • Eldrida Urika

            How can you be rude to other people and still claim to be a Christian?

          • Trilemma

            Fortunately, you don’t have to follow the 613 commands in the Old Testament of the Christian bible.

          • Eldrida Urika

            Those laws were never intended for the gentiles just for the Jews, Trilemma. They didn’t want to give the gentiles the burdens that they lived with in the laws, and said that we only have to do Jesus’ commandments and the things he taught us, not learn the laws. And yes I am very thankful for that grace of Jesus that had him decide that.
            Blessings!

          • Trilemma

            Yes, you’re quite right as Acts 15 points out. But many Christians still persist in foisting parts of the Old Testament Law on Christians today.

          • Eldrida Urika

            Yes and some Christians do not go by the Gospel at all apparently. So take heart there are many Christians that believe as I do and we follow Jesus so we are not putting pressure on non-believers the way some Christians do.
            I think they find it more aggressive than the way Jesus wants us to behave, because Jesus does not want us to push our belief, just to tell them, and let them choose. If they choose not to believe, Jesus told us to leave them alone. So I don’t have a clue why they seem to trouble anyone about their sin, as it is their own and their brethren that they should be keeping their eyes on when it comes to sin. Not the sins of people who do not believe.
            The OT is actually intended to support what the NT says in most cases, but the NT makes some things clearer than the OT did for us to be better able to follow them.
            I’ll always be here for a Christian view that is about Following Jesus, and nothing of my own decisions about his commands. I only do what he tells us to do and feel anything else is going on the wide path, instead of the narrow one. Not following his commands is a sin in itself. Since they are about love and not about sin, it shows that with enough love, sin will be much less because we don’t want to hurt people we love, and sin hurts someone in some way. You sound more like a Christian than some of the others do sometimes. IMHO
            Blessings!

          • Eldrida Urika

            No you’re wrong. the fundamentalists believe they are guaranteed salvation by the grace that is given to us to be forgiven for sins repented. They know very little about the gospel and for the most part, they do not understand it, or they choose to ignore it.
            They do not follow Jesus’ word because they don’t understand why God said what they believe as free salvation, when Jesus told us to do his commands which are things for our salvation. So no the Christian faith is based on the bible not someone’s stand that they believe this: They are guaranteed salvation based on Grace alone and that they do not have to behave properly like Jesus told us to, and in a document made by a mere human is being held as true without acknowledging that God is the only one to decide things and if he told us that just believing and receiving his grace for forgiveness of sin he would not have had to go through all the lessons that Jesus taught us to do.
            Having a document that tells a religion that they should never listen to anyone trying to tell them that they must do anything to be saved, is blasphemous as it goes against God’s Word. God didn’t put anything in the bible that had no meaning or that was not a lesson or instruction for us. If you think that listening to a man made document is more about God’s Word than the bible, that makes you wrong too, God’s Word is the ONLY Truth and twisting it will not allow for salvation. Just fact.

          • Tony Demarcus, Ph.D., D.D.

            Eldrida:
            Why are you trying to follow Wobbler (who is allegedly a sodomite, and is hated by Jesus as per Ps. 5:5 and Romans 1) in making a fool of yourself? The true Christian fundamentalist follows every letter of Jesus’ Word, in historical and grammatical context, BECAUSE he believes it and been Saved! Therefore, it only follows logically and Biblically that anyone that doesn’t follow Jesus in spirit and in deed is not Saved.

            Read the Christian Bible and get Saved or you will end up in Hell!

          • Eldrida Urika

            I have just discovered that you aren’t a true Christian at all by your rudeness. You are disgusting and should not try to sully the rest of Christianity with the way you behave. You don’t even understand what a true Christian is because you ignore Jesus’ words.

          • Tony Demarcus, Ph.D., D.D.

            Eldrida:

            What a fool you are! The Christian follows Jesus in talking to rebellious pagans/heathens/satanist in Jesus-like manner, and being disparaging and “rude” to them as He was in John 8:44! Your foolishness only makes you a laughing stock in this Christian symposium. You’re not someone to try to abash the Christian or Christian education in such a vacuous manner. Maybe you should start with your Bible study by finding yourself a true Christian — that’d be fundamentalist (look it up so that you may know what it means!) Bible-believing — Christian children’s forum, where a youth pastor can give you proper instruction in Christian Bible.

            Run off now, this is the Thanksgiving (Ps. 69:30) weekend, and the Christian got lots of work to with the with the Riverside Bus Stop Ministries, where we preach to runaways and harlots to bring the Elect from amongst them to the Lord.

        • Eldrida Urika

          You think people are impressed with Bling Bling (cars and clothes) then you are wrong. People are attracted to Christians who do not preach Hatred about anything to do with God. God is about Love of people and it is sin that destroys that love in people like you.
          I believe in telling the truth of God’s Word, but I do not believe that God told us to make it like we are better than anyone else in the world because he told us to be humble.
          Your belief that Christians deserve to control everything is not what Jesus preached. He told us that we should accept that some people will not follow him and to leave them alone after telling them about salvation.
          You can tell me all you want that people who believe that God wants us to get along with love and compassion for others, but it doesn’t matter because I am a child of God and I have been baptized with the Holy Spirit and I have no fear of being mistaken in my beliefs because people who have the wrong beliefs will not have the Holy Spirit indwelling in them. So I disagree with your attitude, as a Christians you are not showing the Fruits of the Spirit. That is how I know a true Christian when I see them.
          Love Joy Peace Long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness or temperance. But you claim to be an authority on God’s Word without displaying the Fruit Jesus told us to know another Christian by? I beg to differ but Jesus was not hateful towards any person and only told us not to sin to encourage the Love in the world. Sinning is the thing that HURTS others and by not sinning there is more love than hate.
          It’s the evangelists that have fancy cars and expensive clothes that create a false image of God and what he wants for the Christians who are faithful.
          Those people are greedy which is a sin as well. You sound like you are right along with those men, by the way you write in your posts.

    • ThroatwobblerMangrove

      “…and demand that this unnamed principal join these young men in prayer and repent for his persecution of Christians.”

      I think even the harshest and most unreasonable lawmakers in the land would laugh at the thought of this. Thought policing? No thanks.

  • TruthvLIes

    Judging by all the stories written about situations like this it is obvious that the atheists have put the fear of their god into non believers running the schools.

    Oh No! students praying! I see a law suit coming from the godless self centred atheists. Can’t afford that. Stop them at once.

    It seems that backbone had deserted school leadership and they get their exercise jumping to conclusions.

    • Croquet_Player

      “I see a law suit coming from the godless self centred atheists.” You’d be mistaken to expect a lawsuit, from anyone. Students may pray at school, alone or in groups, as long as they’re not disrupting classes. The administration made an error, they apologized for the misunderstanding, and no student was disciplined. Problem solved.

      • TruthvLIes

        I have on record several schools that caved into to the atheists because they could not afford a law suit.

        • Lark.62

          The schools “caved” when they listened to their lawyers and accepted that their conduct in those cases was illegal.

          Allowing non disruptive, student initiated prayer is legal. And in fact required by law. If meeting space is provided to other groups, the school must provide meeting space to students who want to pray. Of course, this means muslims and hindus can also engage in student initiated prayer. No first amendment rights group would object as long as all students are treated equally.

          Allowing an outside adult into the school to proselytize is illegal. Period. Government employees cannot promote religion or non religion. The government cannot give special treatment to one religious view. School attendance is required by law and employees cannot allow students gathered by government authority to be subjected to religious proselytization.

          • TruthvLIes

            As I said but which you seem unable to comprehend, I have on record several schools that caved into the atheists because they could not afford a lawsuit.

          • Lark.62

            Agreeing to follow the law is not “caving.”

            Give me some examples – I am willing to bet the situations involved adults illegally promoting religion or giving preference to one religion rather than legal student initiated personal religious activity.

          • TruthvLIes

            I do not give evidence to atheists because without fail all they do is rubbish it. I have got better things to do with my time.

            The atheists never gave the school the opportunity to follow the law. They threatened a lawsuit if something was not done to replace christianity with atheism.

            And in many cases the law as open to interpretation.

          • Lark.62

            A lot of individuals, even school administrators, are confused about what is legal. And a lot of people intentionally or unintentionally spread incorrect information, which muddies the waters even more.

            But the law itself is clear and consistently applied by the courts.

            The atheists never gave the school the opportunity to follow the law.

            Say what!? They send a letter to give the school the opportunity to follow the law but somehow that doesn’t count as giving the school the opportunity to follow the law. Wow.

          • TruthvLIes

            The law is not consistently applied by the courts. I was reading a magazine and one court in one state said no and another court in another state said yes.

          • Bob Johnson

            Why would they cave in? If the school wins the case, then the atheists will have to pay the school’s court costs. The only reason the school would cave is if they knew they were acting against the law.

          • TruthvLIes

            The news item did not give all the details of the case and the reasons for this that and the other. It said the school caved in to save itself the cost of a law suit. if you want to know why just ask them, instead of irrelevant speculation.

        • Croquet_Player

          First of all, you incorrectly assume that everyone who cares about the constitutional rights of students not to be proselytized to in class are atheists. The recently retired Rev. Barry W. Lynn was the executive director of Americans United
          for Separation of Church and State since 1992. He is an ordained
          minister in the United Church of Christ. Not an atheist. Plenty of religious people care about the issue. Secondly, the schools weren’t “caving” to anyone. It was pointed out, by their own lawyers, that they were violating the law and would certainly lose a lawsuit, no matter how much money they could raise in their own defense. So it’s not a matter of being impoverished.

          I’m always perplexed by people who fail to recognize that this law protects them too. Sure, you might be fine with your local school coach’s approach to religion now. But what if they hire a different coach, whose religious views differ significantly from yours and your family’s? Do you want your children being invited to pray with that school instructor? I would imagine not. And of course you may teach your children your own religious views, and send them to whatever out-of-school religious classes you wish, secure in the knowledge that they are not being instructed differently at their public school.

          • TimothyJ

            You make an excellent statement against multiculturalism.

          • Croquet_Player

            Yes, the Catholics and the Baptists have never really seen eye-to-eye. Who would you like to throw out of the country?

          • TruthvLIes

            Since when has the Baptists and Catholics been a race?

          • Croquet_Player

            Since when has culture been a race?

          • TruthvLIes

            I never said it was.

          • Croquet_Player

            Great!

          • TruthvLIes

            I don’t assume anything. All I have done is state what was said in the news item, which was that the school caved in because it said it could not afford to defend a lawsuit brought by atheists.

            I did not write the news item.

          • Croquet_Player

            The “news item” does not state any suit was brought by “atheists”. Nor did it state that there was any lawsuit at all. Because there was no lawsuit, nor even any threat of a lawsuit, brought by anyone, atheist or not. You did not simply restate what was described in the “news item”. The “news item” conflicts 100% with what you said. Your very name is “TruthvLies”. You’re doing an appalling job of living up to it.

          • TruthvLIes

            I can see that you are grammatically challenged.

            Can you tell me where I quoted the lawsuit I was referring to?

            How do you know there was no threat of a lawsuit if you don’t even know which one I was referring to?

            How do you know that the news item conflicts with me 100% if you have never seen it?

            If you don’t believe in the supernatural, where did you get your ESP from?

          • Croquet_Player

            We are discussing the article above. Kindly produce evidence for any and all lawsuits brought. You can’t, because there are none. You are a liar.

          • TruthvLIes

            I am not discussing the article above and you were discussing the cases I mentioned.

            Delusions of grandeur which you obviously have, may give you the boldness to tell others what they have to do but I don’t cast pearls before swine so up yours.

          • Croquet_Player

            Insults. The refuge of those with no argument.

    • Lark.62

      No.

      There is a law that applies to christians and non christians that protects the religious rights of all students. But there is a lot of misinformation out there and people get confused.

      Student initiated prayer – like here – is completely legal as long as it doesn’t interfere with lesson time or the operation of the school. A few students praying in the hallway is fine. 100 students praying in the hallway might block traffic and so need to move to an empty classroom. But student prayer is legal.

      Adult initiated religious activity is not legal. Coaches cannot direct players to pray to his deity. Teachers cannot encourage students to attend a religious club. Principals cannot permit outsiders to come to the school and preach to students.

      As an atheist, I will defend the right of religious students to pray in student led groups that do not interfere with school operation or other students.

      As an atheist, I will defend the right of all students to attend school and participate in all activities free of coercion to participate in religious activity.

      Will you protect the rights of non religious students with the same vigor as you protect the right to pray?

      • TruthvLIes

        If teachers cannot encourage students to attend a religious club, it is inhibiting his freedom of religion, especially if the student asks his advice on the matter.

        • Lark.62

          If teachers cannot encourage students to attend a religious an atheist club, it is inhibiting his freedom of religion, especially if the student asks his advice on the matter.

          Do you feel the same if the teacher is encouraging atheism, paganism, or islam?

          One set of rules, applied equally.

          • TruthvLIes

            Except you have forgotten one thing. Atheism denies it is a religion even though they have 35 churches in the USA.

          • Lark.62

            Atheism is protected by the first amendment.

          • TruthvLIes

            At last an atheist is admitting to the truth. I will have to tell all those atheists who lie and say it is not a religion.

          • Lark.62

            Atheism is not a religion. However, the courts have ruled that “freedom of religion” includes the freedom to not have a religion. Thus atheism is protected.

            To me, atheism is just a conclusion that there is no evidence to support belief in the supernatural. That’s about all atheists have in common, and some wouldn’t even agree with my definition.

          • TruthvLIes

            The atheists in the USA made an application for religious tax exemption for their 35 churches. That makes them a religion

            Apart from the fact that Satan is the father of lies and the father of atheism is Satan so to know what the truth is all I have to do is take the opposite view to what atheists say.

      • TruthvLIes

        Why do you keep on saying the same thing over and over and over again? Are you a troll?

  • MCrow

    And see, this is the kind of prayer in school that is allowed. The principal shouldn’t have interfered, and it’s good that this was clarified as a misunderstanding.

  • Lydia Church

    They have the right to pray at school and anywhere!
    Schools in general have become hate groups against Christians.

    • Lark.62

      Yes.

      I am an atheist and I agree that christian students have the right to pray at school, without school employees discouraging the activity.

      I trust you would likewise defend the right of other students to not say christian prayers at school, with no school employee encouraging the activity.

  • Lark.62

    Why the outrage? This is a complicated area and principals make mistakes all the time. Trust me, atheists know how often principals, teachers, coaches, band leaders etc. violate religious rights.

    Outrage is only warranted when the denial of rights was intentional and/or goes uncorrected. That was not the case here.

    Students have the right to pray in school, as long as they, not adults, are leading and orchestrating it. The student’s prayer here, as long as they did not disrupt lesson time or the ability of other students to get to class, was legal. I will defend your kid’s right to pray in school.

    Will you defend my kids’ right to be free of coercion from school employees to pray to a deity they do not believe in?

    • TruthvLIes

      It was intentional alright. He only repented because he was caught with his trousers down meaning he was confronted by parents who knew their rights better than he did.

      This sort of thing goes on all over America in its schools thanks to the atheists, who are jealous of kids having faith on God because they can’t even though they know he exists.

      There have been so many cases that I would think that intelligent educators would know that it is a lost cause to oppose student initiated prayer.

      • Lark.62

        It was caught and fixed.

        This is all atheists ask for when school officials violate the religious rights of non Christians. Train your staff and move on.

        • TruthvLIes

          Don’t be so ridiculous. If that was the case, they would not threaten schools and principals with lawsuits which often is the case.

          • Lark.62

            They send a letter. They describe the issue and include citations to the law and court decisions. If the school fixes it like this principal did, it’s over.

            Lawsuits only happen when the school digs in its heels and refuses to correct the issue. When a school refuses and a group like the FFRF does sue, they usually seek a whopping $1 in damages. But by law, the school is on the hook for legal fees.

            Many schools, after being informed by their lawyers that the case law is 100% against them, will lie and announce that they are only making the change because of those evil atheists. They tell parents they would totally, for sure win if this went to court. This helps to appease religious parents. Of course, this is also called lying. But it doesn’t matter how the school spins it as long as they follow the law.

      • This style 10/6

        Anyone who “knows” that god exists can’t be an atheist, by definition.

        There is a belief among some theists that atheists are “rebelling against god”. No they are not. They see no evidence for a god. It’s as simple as that.

  • Lark.62

    Equal Access Act of 1984
    U.S. Code › Title 20 › Chapter 52 › Subchapter VIII › § 4071

    (a) Restriction of limited open forum on basis of religious, political, philosophical, or other speech content prohibited
    It shall be unlawful for any public secondary school which receives Federal financial assistance and which has a limited open forum to deny equal access or a fair opportunity to, or discriminate against, any students who wish to conduct a meeting within that limited open forum on the basis of the religious, political, philosophical, or other content of the speech at such meetings.

    (b) “Limited open forum” defined
    A public secondary school has a limited open forum whenever such school grants an offering to or opportunity for one or more noncurriculum related student groups to meet on school premises during noninstructional time.

    (c) Fair opportunity criteria
    Schools shall be deemed to offer a fair opportunity to students who wish to conduct a meeting within its limited open forum if such school uniformly provides that—
    (1) the meeting is voluntary and student-initiated;
    (2) there is no sponsorship of the meeting by the school, the government, or its agents or employees;

    (3) employees or agents of the school or government are present at religious meetings only in a nonparticipatory capacity;
    (4) the meeting does not materially and substantially interfere with the orderly conduct of educational activities within the school; and
    (5) nonschool persons may not direct, conduct, control, or regularly attend activities of student groups.

    (d) Construction of subchapter with respect to certain rights
    Nothing in this subchapter shall be construed to authorize the United States or any State or political subdivision thereof—
    (1) to influence the form or content of any prayer or other religious activity;
    (2) to require any person to participate in prayer or other religious activity;
    (3) to expend public funds beyond the incidental cost of providing the space for student-initiated meetings;
    (4) to compel any school agent or employee to attend a school meeting if the content of the speech at the meeting is contrary to the beliefs of the agent or employee;
    (5) to sanction meetings that are otherwise unlawful;
    (6) to limit the rights of groups of students which are not of a specified numerical size; or
    (7) to abridge the constitutional rights of any person

  • My question is, Who the heck is a respected Matthew Dunn? If he is a student, then there’s nothing wrong with organizing a prayer, but if he is a school official (teacher or administrator), it was illegal.

    Religion in public schools is a very confusing issue, manly because most people do not understand the Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment. Because their are many religions and denominations to each religion, no government agent (school official included) may organize a religious service or prayer event in public school.

    Having said that, I have to wonder how the parents and students who supported the prayer session would feel if one or more Muslim students were to cast down prayer rugs in the hall between classes and pray to Allah. Would they be attacked? Who knows. It’s best to leave religion out of public schools altogether.

    • TruthvLIes

      And what evidence do you have that it is best to leave religion out of public schools.
      The evidence I have is that it was the worst decision ever made to exclude religion as you are saying a third part of person’s personality is not allowed in schools.

      • That is your opinion.

        What evidence do I have? HISTORY and LOGIC!

        HISTORY: Since recorded history there have been 100s of millions of people killed because of religion. Ever heard of an auto-da-fé?

        Even now in various parts of the world people are killing each other over religious beliefs. Northern Ireland was a recent example as well, as protestants and Catholics killed each other over differences in the SAME religion. Every time one religion dominates the government and is allowed to make laws based on its particular beliefs, there is oppression and religious strife.

        LOGIC: The vast majority of people of every religion were taught to believe that religion from childhood. Had you been born to a Muslim family in a Muslim society, you would now be a Muslim with all the religious certitude that Islam is the one, true religion just as fervently as you are certain of Christianity now.

        Our founders recognized that truth. They wanted each person to have the personal freedom to follow the dictates of their conscience in matters of religion.

        You believe in freedom? You believe that parents have the right to raise their children according to their own beliefs? You want the government to dictate prayers and inculcate other people’s children with one particular brand of Christianity–regardless if many of those children are Jewish or Muslim or Hindu?

        Google and read “A Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom, 18 June 1779” at FOUNDERS ONLINE. It’s a bill written by Jefferson. It is the document from which and for the same purpose the Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment to the Constitution was crafted. It is a short read and for anyone who is capable of reason, it should make sense.

        Fundamentalists become apoplectic every time they sense the government is interfering with their “religious rights.” However, they have no problem whatsoever in using the government as a blunt instrument with which to bludgeon the rest of society into bowing to their particular brand of their particular religion.

        • TruthvLIes

          But truth is not your strong point. Millions more have been killed by atheism that were ever killed by religion.

          And today, more people are being killed by ONE religion, not religion. It is known as Islam and most of the people killed by them are muslim, not other people.

          Try doing some homework before opening your mouth and putting your foot in it.

          I was not taught my faith from childhood as my family were irreligious and the evidence is that Muslims are converting to christianity in their thousands.

          • You are the consequential fundamentalist–ignorant of history, science and the structure of logical debate. This is getting nowhere because you are not interested in a civil debate were facts are relevant. I’m sorry that I’ll have to block you as you are a waste of my time.

          • TruthvLIes

            And you are the laughable atheist who can’t handle the truth so you have to obfuscate, spin and avoid.