34,000 Black, Latino Churches Cut Ties with Presbyterian Church USA Over ‘Gay Marriage’ Stance

PC Banner Credit Drama QueenWASHINGTON — The National Black Church Initiative (NBCI), a coalition of approximately 34,000 churches spanning various denominations and representing an estimated 15.7 million African Americans and Latinos, has “broken fellowship” with the Presbyterian Church USA (PCUSA) after a majority vote was reached among the denomination’s regional presbyteries to redefine marriage.

As previously reported, last June, the General Assembly of PCUSA, headquarted in Louisville, Kentucky, voted 76-24 to allow licensed ministers to officiate same-sex ceremonies. Delegates within the denomination also approved a proposal to change language in the PCUSA Book of Order to redefine marriage from being a union between “a man and woman” to rather only “two persons.”

But the change was not to become official until its 172 regional presbyteries across the country voted on the matter. Earlier this month, PCUSA reached its majority vote in order to ratify the amended language, generating both applause and sadness from various groups and entities across the nation.

“Finally, the church in its constitutional documents fully recognizes that the love of gays and lesbian couples is worth celebrating in the faith community,” Brian Ellison, executive director of the Covenant Network of Presbyterians, told the New York Times.

“In terms of the PCUSA’s witness to the world, this vote demonstrates a complete accommodation to the prevailing winds of our culture,” Carmen Fowler LaBerge, president of the Presbyterian Lay Committee, said in a statement. “Any prophetic voice that the denomination may have once had to speak truth and call people to repentance is now lost. All she can do now is echo the voices of the world for she has abandoned the clarion call to bear faithful witness to the God who has clearly spoken on this matter.”

Now, the Washington, D.C.-based National Black Church Initiative has announced that it is cutting ties with the organization over its stance, thus marking the end of a partnership of tens of thousands of black and Latino Americans with PCUSA. Those that belong to the initiative are not necessarily Presbyterians as the group represents over a dozen denominations.

“NBCI and its membership base are simply standing on the word of God within the mind of Christ,” President Anthony Evans said, according to Charisma News. “We urge our brothers and sisters of the PCUSA to repent and be restored to fellowship.”

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“PCUSA’s manipulation represents a universal sin against the entire church and its members,” he continued. “With this action, PCUSA can no longer base its teachings on 2,000 years of Christian Scripture and tradition, and call itself a Christian entity in the body of Christ. It has forsaken its right by this single wrong act.”

Evans then pointed to Scripture as prophesying that false teachings will arise, but should be rejected.

“[The] Apostle Paul warns us about this when he declared in Galatians 1:8 that there are those who will preach another gospel: ‘For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. … For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light,'” he quoted.

“No church has the right to change the Word of God. By voting to redefine marriage PCUSA automatically forfeits Christ’s saving grace. There is always redemption in the body of Christ through confession of faith and adhering to Holy Scripture,” Evans continued. “In this case, PCUSA deliberately voted to change the Word of God and the interpretation of holy marriage between one man and one woman. This is why we must break fellowship with them and urge the entire Christendom to do so as well.”

Photo: Drama Queen/Wikipedia

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  • thoughtsfromflorida

    I couldn’t find one PCUSA church on their website. Apparently this doesn’t mark “a separation of tens of thousands of black and Latino Americans from PCUSA”.

  • RWH

    In a way, it doesn’t matter what Para church organizations like this one have to say. People think of themselves as belonging to a particular church, not a denomination, and they usually don’t think very far from the four walls of their own particular church. Even within a specific denomination, it is hard to get cooperation between individual churches. One church may be inclusive, and another may not. Yet, they agree to disagree because people don’t think beyond their own church.

    • prettydarnmad

      I think all should be allowed to worship at any Christian church. Hate the sin not the sinner. But we cannot abandon what is righteous and good and become godless. We have a God and he has a message. We must adhere to the bible and the teachings of Christ.

  • Lisa Jolley White

    I used to go to a presbyterian church they allowe everyone to worship even Baptzed a lesbian couple and their baby, I am not against gays and everyone needs Christ I’m unsure about gay marriage I don’t know if God would bless them but I am also not here to judge only God can

    • prettydarnmad

      We are not judging, but if you follow scripture. Man is not to lay with man as he lay with woman as it is an abomination. We should not shun them or be hateful. But we cannot condone their lifestyle. God Bless.

      • Deina

        Do you “condone the lifestyle” of people who wear mixed cloth?
        Do you “condone the lifestyle” of people who eat pork?
        Do you “condone the lifestyle” of people who eat shellfish?
        Do you “condone the lifestyle” of people who remarry after divorce?
        Do you “condone the lifestyle” of people who don’t have their children stoned for being disobedient?
        Do you “condone the lifestyle” of people who don’t force their daughter to marry her rapist?
        Do you “condone the lifestyle” of widows who refuse to marry their late husband’s brother?
        Do you “condone the lifestyle” of people who are so prideful that they think they’re better than others?

        Unless you’re condemning those “sinners” just as voraciously, you’re a hypocrite.

        And we all know what Jesus thinks of hypocrites.

        • TexazEric

          Obviously you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. First of all Do you even understand the difference between Ceremonial Law and Moral Law? Do you even understand that the New Testament condemns Homosexual behavior unambiguously? Do you know anything about the person posting? How dare you call them a hypocrite and judge them. You are obviously ignorant about the nature and things of God. So sometimes it is better to be silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

          • Deina

            “So sometimes it is better to be silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.”

            Apparently that would have been your wisest choice. Too bad you didn’t take Mr. Lincoln’s advice.

        • Norma Ross

          Your judge is Jesus as He is mine. There are all kinds of verses in the New Testament that speak against the gay and lesbian life style. The Bible is true and as Jesus said” Let the one without sin be first to throw the first stone” . All have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God, so none of us can throw stones. Jesus will forgive you, but know that the lesbian lifestyle is wrong.

        • Bob Burt

          I would say to all who want to argue with Deina, “don’t cast your pearls before swine”

          • Deina

            In other words, “if you can’t debate intelligently, then just throw insults.”

            Your ad hominem attack tells us what we need to know about you.

  • Anita Johnston

    Good for this group. They are trying to stay true to both the Old and New Testament teachings.

    • RWH

      Do we know anything about this group? How do we know what they teach, let alone staying true to anything?

  • Norma Ross

    God has already judged the gay lesbian behavior by destroying Sodom and Gamorrah. Not sure of the spelling, but God told His servant Lot to leave that place and don’t even look back. God put everything in order when He created a man and a woman to be his helpmate. God is the final judge and that is why I prefer to be on God’s side. He destroyed the living on earth by flood the first time. Next time it is going to be by fire. Only He is God, and only His Word counts, the Bible!

    • Deina

      Ezekiel 16:49
      Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.

      Strange, I don’t see homosexuality listed there. I also anxiously await your enlightenment as to where the OT condemns lesbians.

      • TheBBP

        The OT CLEARLY speaks about homosexuality. You want to go by “Well Ezekiel never mentions women!” because you want to cherry-pick verses to support your argument.

        The problem with that avenue is your incredible lack of context and understanding. In this case I would like to direct you to the First Chapter and 26th and 27th verses of the Book of Romans.

        “26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.”

        There is ALWAYS context to be taken into consideration, if not before or after cherry-picked verse, it will be elsewhere in the Bible.

        • Deina

          Nice try at sidestepping the question. What is it with you people? Is your god so weak that you can’t debate honestly?

          I didn’t say a word about Romans or anything else in your “new” testament, especially anything by Paul the Usurper, who teaches so much crap that’s in direct contradiction with what Jesus said.

          Now, what do you have that refutes Ezekiel?

          And where in the OT (in case that’s too hard for you to understand, then anywhere in the Old Testament) does it condemn lesbians?

          Eagerly awaiting your next try at escape & evasion.

          • PoJoe

            Typical , even when faced with the truth ( which can be found) the LGBT community just can’t seem to admit that they are wrong. So , they finger pick what they want expecting that it be honored . No matter what you say now or think , judgement day is coming and you will not be saved , ( according to St. James )

          • Deina

            How refreshing!

            One post out of three that contains something more than just childish insults!

            I see you’ve graduated all the way up to personal opinion! Congratulations!

            In order to admit that we are wrong, first we have to be wrong, and thus far no one has been able to prove that the case.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            God has proved man/woman to be wrong. A lot of the time. <

          • John Ceglarski

            True PoJoe but please pray the Rosary for them as the blessed mother and Christ requested we do. We have all screwed up at one time or another. He hung on the cross for your sins as well as mine and Deina’s. She just doesn’t realize how terrible hell is. Pray for the conversion of souls as the blessed mother asked.

          • Daniel Allen

            Paul the usurper?

          • Deina

            That’s what I wrote.

          • Daniel Allen


          • Eponymous1

            “For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.…”


          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            When you face God as we all will . Christian and nonChriatian . You can ask Him why he did not use the word Lesbian in the old test. You can talk to Him about your Hatred of the Christians as well. You can tell Him how you felt he was so weak in your eyes. God has all the answers we do not have. <

          • Deina

            Where did I ever say that I thought He was “weak”? Where did I say I “hate christians”, or anyone else, for that matter?

            Let me guess – reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit.

            At least you admit you don’t have all the answers, instead of blathering on & digging your hole deeper with every post.

            I respect that.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            View your post .You act as if you do . When you meet the Lord face to face maybe He will let you and I talk then . <

          • Deina

            Here are a few sites that you may find helpful. Of course, you’re welcome to look up your own, too.

            7 Literacy Strategies That Work: Improve Reading Comprehension Today

            Adult Literacy: Better Reading Comprehension, How to Speed-Read, and Some Life-Changing Literature to Improve Your Life

            3 Ways to Improve Your Reading Comprehension – wikiHow

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            No thank you . I don’t have to be perfect like you are . God loves me as I am But thank you for your KINDNESS . 🙂

          • Deina

            Just like you, I’m far from perfect! Though we apparently differ in that I don’t like to turn down opportunities to improve myself.

            Strangely, I think you’re the only person I haven’t slept with who has ever called me “perfect.” Or have we? Odd way to put it, “slept with”, isn’t it? If you’re who I think you are, neither of us did! Hehehe!!!

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            EWWWW HEHEHEHEHE !! Thanks for making me laugh.

      • Norma Ross

        Read Genesis 19:1-29. It describes how evil Sodom and Gomorrah was. God destroyed it with fire and told Abraham to leave with his wife and two daughters before He destroyed the cities.

        • Deina

          How does that refute Ezekiel?

          OOPS! You must have overlooked responding about the condemnation of gay women.

          If God were condemning homosexuality, why would He forbid it for men but not women?

          • PoJoe

            Deina , you are only showing the world that you are very ignorant and with every notion that you spell ….prove it !

          • Deina

            Another drive-by slur attack.

            Is that the only arrow in your quiver?

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            New test. does include women .

        • n4cerinc

          Was LOT not evil for offering his daughters to be raped?

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            No he wasn’t even though most thought he was . But they did not want them anyway.

          • Deina

            So you wouldn’t have a problem sending your daughters out under the same circumstances? How did he know they “didn’t want them” before he offered? Was he merely bluffing?

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            It was him not me .I was not born yet .We are talking old test. Even though I am a Grandma I am not that old . HA HA 🙂
            The Bible says he offered his daughters to the men and they rejected the ((((((((FEMALES)))))))))) . They wanted the ((((MALE)))) Angels . You can twist it all you want . I choose not to.

      • Jamal L. West

        ^ That verse does boy prove anything Deina. Your picking for straws. Correctly handle the word or truth. God is holy. Jesus is holy. Your talking about lesbian’s or whatever, come on now bro. Any man that lays with a man or a woman with a woman is not ok. Marriage is a covenant with God, therefore man can not change the definition of marriage. The Presbyterian Church ought to be ashamed of themselves and they are doing this stuff in the name of Jesus. Smh

        Deina, ignorance isn’t bliss. Trying to pick out certain verses from the Bible to fit your argument is foolish and asisnine. God tells us exactly why he destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. That Ezekiel verse is important, read verse 50 “…and they did detestable things. Therefore I did away with them.” Don’t take scripture to make it fit because you will always fail.
        Lean not on your own understanding and read the word for yourself and ask God yo help you believe and understand.

        • Deina

          Can’t do it, can you.

          That’s because it’s not there.

          Thank you for playing!

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

            When you face God you will see the game you played did not make you the winner . If it is the Will of God for you to be delivered and to be Saved . May the Will of God for you be done here as His Will is done in Heaven . May the Holy Spirit open your eyes,ears,understanding and your heart to His Truth. In Jesus Name. <

        • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead

          Amen !

      • Alan Robert Springfield

        They are listed in the NT where we go for today’s living:

        1 Corinthians 6:9 ESV / 9 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful

        Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,

        • Deina

          Then your “rules” don’t apply to Muslims, Jews, or anyone else who doesn’t heed Paul the Usurper.

          Thank you for playing, but wrong.


          • Alan Robert Springfield

            I don’t know what U are talking about for sure but I do know that all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God Romans 3:23….If we say we have no sin then we deceive ourselves 1 John 1:8 Sin is the nature we were both born with and I say it will be some time before it is recognized by many folks including Diena! It couldn’t be possible for God to forbid a man to be with a man and not women also…it is a no-brainer it is sexual sin (of which I have been guilty as in adultery and fornication both. Homosexuality refers to both man and women period! But your sin of any kind is enough to condemn you to Hell! I would not focus on this one issue to your own peril! I do hope God has chosen you. You , however, cannot save yourself. Only god can and has saved since before the foundation of the world! John 6:44 ‘No one can even come to Me unless the Father draws him/her! (notice the masculine form of gender is usually used to refer to all sinners! Thanks for the reply!

          • Deina

            Of course you know what I’m talking about! There are many faiths & religions who don’t look at the NT as the word of God. Why should they be bound by your version of Scripture?

            Rabbi Gershon Winkler has written (in the Bible Review, June 2001) (after he thoroughly debunks Leviticus & Deuteronomy):

            Also, lesbianism, according to Jewish law, was never prohibited; Maimonides, who personally abhorred such behavior, ruled that; it is neither a biblical nor a rabbinic prohibition. (Perush L’Mishnayot on Sanhedrin 54a.)

            Elsewhere on the same page he reports:

            In the 3rd century CE, the Babylonian Talmud records that Rabbi Huna (the miracle working rain making-sacred circle drawing rabbi) tried to get the Sanhedrin to legislate against female homosexuals (lesbians) being able to marry a High Priest, a Cohen, but his colleagues ruled against him (BT Yebamot 76a). The Sanhedrin said that it was not permissible to prohibit what the Torah permits.

            It logically follows that if the Torah was referring to homosexuality in general, as a sexual preference or as an sexual orientation, why would it just address only the MALE homosexual activity and not also the female homosexual activity?

            If you truly believe that The Bible is The Word of God, I think you would do well to go by what it actually says, instead of simply believing what you want it to say!

          • Alan Robert Springfield

            All I cand I did. The Bible as I said to no avail here uses the masculine term with almost all verses….so?????// All the Best!

          • John_33

            Actually, the OT does condemn female homosexuality. Gen 2:23-24 defines marriage as between men and women only (Jesus upholds this as the definition for marriage in Matthew 19:3-6), and fornication is forbidden throughout the Bible — Old and New Testaments. There is no Biblically-sanctioned way for lesbians to have relations with other women since they couldn’t get married and therefore it would only count as fornication. Of course, we also have Romans 1:26-27 which is extremely clear and is confirmed as scripture by Peter in 2 Peter 3:16. Paul’s witness is also confirmed by Jesus in Acts 23:11, so to condemn Paul is to condemn Peter and Jesus too. Once you toss out certain portions of scripture, you toss them all out since you are taking away from the Word of God.

          • Deina

            I’m not a Biblical scholar, nor do I claim to be. But when it comes to the Old Testament & the Torah, or Pentateuch, I trust none but those Jewish Rabbis who have spent the whole of their lives studying it.

            I’ve already shown a small part of what they determined nearly 2,000 years ago in a previous post, which is that “lesbianism, according to Jewish law, was never prohibited.” I recommend that you study Rabbi Gershon Steinberg-Caudill’s thesis at http://home.earthlink.net/~ecorebbe/id18.html. There is a link where you can contact him directly with your questions. Perhaps you’re right! Maybe the Sanhedrin completely forgot about Genesis when they made that determination on at least two separate occasions in the 3rd & 12th centuries CE.

          • John_33

            There’s only one person whose views matter when it comes to Old Testament Law — Jesus Christ Himself. He knew the Law inside and out. He not only wholeheartedly endorsed the Law, but He lived it as the perfect man, so if this is a matter of legal expertise or moral or Biblical authority, then we ought to turn to Him on this matter.

            First, Jesus identified marriage as between men and women only in Matthew 19:4-6 and He did so by quoting Genesis. By doing so, Jesus is the one who made the connection and effectively said that it always was this way “from the beginning” ~ Mark 10:6-9.

            Second, Jesus also condemned all relations outside of marriage in Matthew 15:19 as sin, but He didn’t stop there. He also warned that if a man looked on a woman to lust after her in his heart, then he was guilty of adultery (Matthew 5:28). Lust is lust. If it’s sin for a man to lust after a woman in his heart, then it’s also sin for a woman to lust after another woman in her heart.

            Therefore, lesbians cannot lust, have relations outside of marriage, or get married to another woman without sinning in God’s eyes since all of these things were condemned by Jesus. They need to be transformed and set free, and that only comes from the power of God.

          • StarkStealthArmor

            Although what you state has merit, then you would have to conclude that the scholars isolated men as an abomination, and women were not included. So, according to the scholars a l is ok but a g man is not? How deceiving is that considering that Sodom and Gomorrah both men and women were destroyed. It’s a convenient statement you have made, however taking into account that God asked to find one righteous person, and Lot could not find one, the cities were destroyed. Thereby and inference can be made that it wasn’t only the men, but also women.


          • Norma Ross

            So well said Alan! I stopped talking to Deina because I saw that she wasn’t’ accepting the truths of the Bible. You seem to have shut her up. Thanks!!!

          • Alan Robert Springfield

            Thank you, but so many like her have bought the lie by Satan and the only hope is for god to open Her eyes! They are on a treadmill and cannot see it!

          • PoJoe

            Why are you arguing the facts when you are so blatantly wrong . In order to be saved you must have a relationship with the lord and accept him as your savior ! With that said , go ahead and argue , your total lack of any intelligence will not save you.

          • Deina

            No one has proven me wrong yet, and I see that you aren’t even going to try.

            Apparently insults & ad hominem are the only things you have going for you.

            You have my sympathy!

      • Jan van Niekerk

        Oh dear Deina, you missed the following verse, Ezekiel 16:50: “They were haughty and did an abomination before me. So I removed them, when I saw it.” But what abomination was that? If only the destruction of Sodom and her sister cities was described in the Bible we would be able to resolve the question.

        • Deina

          Sorry, but apparently you haven’t gotten down to where I addressed that yesterday:

          Ezekiel 16:49-50, New American Standard Bible (NASB)
          [49] Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not [a]help the poor and needy. [50] Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me. Therefore I removed them [b]when I saw it.

          a. Ezekiel 16:49 Lit grasp the hand of
          b. Ezekiel 16:50 Many ancient mss and versions read as you have seen

          Still no mention of homosexuality.

          God destroyed them because they did not “love thy neighbor as thyself.”

          • Jan van Niekerk

            No, you’re not sorry. You’re haughty and unrepentant. This passage holds out hope of restoration to the haughty and unrepentant daughters of Sodom, but you haven’t seen it.

      • jjhot254 .

        yes, pride, in thinking we can do whatever we want just because it feels right,

        • Deina

          God destroyed them because they did not “love thy neighbor as thyself.”

      • Genesis 19:5, “They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”

        • Deina

          Ah! Another scholar!

          So you think that we have a contradiction between Genesis & Ezekiel, eh?

          So which one applies to us today?

          Christians claim that the Old Testament no longer applies, which is why they get to go around eating cheeseburgers, & catfish, & bacon & such, cutting their hair, not wearing beards, growing more than one crop in a field & a thousand other laws listed in the OT.

          Jews claim that the New Testament is irrelevant, yet it was well over a millennia after it was written before they punished anyone for ceremonial idolatry as specified in Leviticus 18:22, and I haven’t heard any reports of such punishment lately.

          And, of course, anyone who is neither Christian nor Jewish have their own set of religious rules to follow, which may, or may not, consider same sex relations as a transgression.

          Fortunately for us, since our Constitution set the US up as a secular democratic republic, we don’t have to worry about what religious laws apply to what religious group. Our government need only concern itself with civil rights & laws, and (so long as they don’t violate said civil rights/laws) let the various religious factions take care of themselves.

          I guess what it boils down to is, if you think that your holy book considers breaking wind while facing east to be a sin, then you shouldn’t break wind while facing east. If your beliefs say it’s a sin to eat peanut butter with liverwurst, then you shouldn’t eat peanut butter & liverwurst sandwiches. If your holy book says you shouldn’t wear tattoos, then you shouldn’t wear tattoos.

          But don’t try to make the law say that those who do not follow your religious tenets have to obey them, as well. That is a direct violation of the First Amendment.

    • OldArkie

      Your correct, but many do as that which in right in his own eyes.

    • Those fairy tales must be very reassuring when everyone in your insular reading circle reads the same ones.

    • MisterPine

      What a blatantly hateful and horrible thing to say. Your moralizing is disgusting, all this destruction – is your blood lust really so strong? They should call this entire forum “Christians Behaving Badly”.

      • Faithwalker

        When you are talking about moralizing, we as Christians follow Biblical precepts and tenets. We as Christians are not moralizing but are making moral sense. Speaking of morals, morals based on God’s truths from the beginning of time for the betterment of civilization through the centuries. Societies were built from a foundation of morals, called the Ten Commandments. Thou shalt not kill, commit adultery, lie, steal and cheat etc. However, man laws and tenets change every couple of generations; and may not be structured toward the betterment of its people.

    • n4cerinc

      I thought GOD destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because LOT offered up his virgin daughters to be raped. Or was that a noble act?

  • FoJC_Forever

    People and organizations who don’t know God, nor have been baptized by Jesus Christ with the Holy Spirit, continue to call themselves the Church just as Scripture has warned.

  • Faithwalker

    The wheat is being separated from the tares. I pray PCUSA repent before its too late.

    • John Ceglarski

      Its already too late. The blood of 50 Million aborted babys is calling out for vengeance not to mention the abominations of sodomites and other disobedience.

  • thoughtsfromflorida

    I couldn’t find one PCUSA church in the organization’s list. It seems that the statement “thus marking the end of a partnership of tens of thousands of black and Latino Americans with PCUSA. ” may be a bit of an exaggeration.

    No doubt that if any of these “tens of thousands of black and Latino Americans” wanted to have a partnership with the PCUSA, they would be welcomed at the churches.

  • GrantLV

    Let’s track how many people leave the NBCI churches over the next 5 years. Because of this, and because people are leaving churches in droves these days. Who’s with me?

  • uzza

    Another split, and we go from 34,000 different sects of christianity to 34,001. Yawn.

  • TheBBP

    God bless these men and women standing in The Word.

  • Reason2012

    … after a majority vote was reached among the denomination’s regional presbyteries to redefine marriage.

    How is it they possibly thought marriage was THEIRS to define or redefine and not God’s? That they think most people would follow them off the anti-God cliff on that one shows how wrong they were.

    There’s such a thing as “same – gender marriage”.

    And the issue is does the state have the right to re-define religious institutions and pass laws to establish this new religious institution, which would in effect be passing laws to establish a new state religion (violation of the establishment clause of the First Amendment), which in turn would criminalize Christian belief about marriage (another violation of the First Amendment) – you are fined up to $150,000 if you do not violate YOUR Christian beliefs and use your business to support sinful acts.

    And on both counts, states do not have any right to do any such thing – we’re protected from such judicial religious tyranny by the Constitution of the United States of America.

    Not to mention that every single man already has the same right as every other man: to marry one woman. And every single woman already has the same right as every single woman: to marry one man. So the claim anyone’s being denied “equal rights” is false.

    Marriage was defined by God at the beginning. Jesus pointed out that marriage is between one man and one woman:

    Matthew 19:4-6 “And he [Jesus] answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, (5) And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? (6) Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.”

    Jesus even points out that for the cause of making them male and female, this is why male will leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife.

    Mark 10:5-7 “And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. (6) But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. (7) For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;”

    Jesus said God made them male and female – not male and male – not female and female.

    Jesus said man shall leave father and mother, not father and father, not mother and mother.

    Jesus said man shall cleave to his wife, not to his husband, not to her wife.

    Not to mention Jesus is God, so the entire Word of God is the Words of Christ. As Jesus is The Word.

    John 1:1-3 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (2) The same was in the beginning with God. (3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.”

    John 1:14 “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”

    The Lord rebukes us for our attempts to destroy what He defined as one man and one woman.

    As if that’s not enough,

    (1) Marriage is a religious institution that has existed since the beginning of time – government never defined it and our government cannot start re-defining it now.

    (2) The government is violating the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America by REDEFINING religious institutions then passing laws to establish this new state religion where anyone who does not adhere to this new state religion by violating their own religious beliefs is condemned as a criminal: sued and fined up to $150,000 dollars.

    (3) Marriage is for the possibility of procreation for the continuance of society. A same-gender marriage is, by design, never capable of such a thing.

    (4) Any pro-creation should be within a marriage – same-gender ‘marriages’ are forced to go outside the ‘marriage” 100% of the time by design.

    (5) Kids have the right to be raised by their biological mother and father – same-gender marriages legally deny them this right 100% of the time, by design.

    (6) Kids have the right to be raised by a mother and a father, not forced into setups that are dysfunctional 100% of the time: two or more fathers and no mother, or two or more mothers and no father. Same-gender marriages legally deny kids this right 100% of the time, by design.

    (7) Every single person alive has one biological mother and one biological father. Nature alone re-iterates what marriage is – that this is what a family is.

    (8) A black man who has no problem baking cakes for white people cannot be forced to bake cakes for the ACT of a “whites are supreme” meeting and so on. LIkewise a Christian who has no problem baking cakes for those who currently profess homosexuality cannot be forced to bake a cake for the ACT of a same-gender wedding.

  • sammy13

    Considering what is happening in Indiana, these 34,000 churches could be guilty of discrimination regardless of what the Bible says. Wait till Angie’s List gets this news.

  • KatieE

    Redefine marriage in a church?? You can’t change the bible!!

  • robyn Hefferan

    Our churches are falling by the number. It used to be that even anti Christians would respect a strong stand on Christian values, instead of trying to water it down to stay popular, now, we haven’t even the courage of our convictions, peer pressure has won out. Sad for all of us sinners.

  • tesmith47

    silly “colored” folks, dont they remember when “god” “said” that white folks should not marry black folks???
    same difference!!!

    • Faithwalker

      That is a very ignorant statement.

  • Paul Hiett

    How sad that in a world where ones religious affiliation is nothing more than a geographical accident, people still think it gives them the right to not only judge others, but try and dictate how they live as well.

  • Trevor Thomas

    As Screwtape cautioned Wormwood, just as warfare with bullets and bombs renders one of the best weapons of Satan (“contented worldliness”) useless, the mounting moral conflicts in America are pushing many of us out of a contented and willful ignorance and complacence and into a place that the enemy of all mankind really doesn’t want us to go: a place where we are forced to confront the social, political, and spiritual consequences of our beliefs and behaviors; a place where we also must examine why we believe what we believe—and, determine if what we believe is really the truth.

    This is why I say….let’s have it out. (See: http://www.trevorgrantthomas.com/2014/08/america-i-wish-she-were-hot-or-cold.html)

    • Paul Hiett

      What harm is done to you if you simply live and let live? Since we know for a fact that SSM does nothing to anyone else, why is it so important to you that they are not allowed to marry?

      • Trevor Thomas

        A great question and one that should be sincerely and seriously asked more often. The “live and let live” approach to homosexuality was tried (though admittedly by the force of our courts) when homosexual acts were decriminalized. Of course, as we now see, that was not enough for those who wish to destroy any notion of Judeo-Christian ethic. If SSM gains the full legal protection of U.S. law, there will most certainly be things “done.” For example, all public schools and anything else deemed in the public domain will be forced to treat homosexuality as normal/healthy/acceptable behavior. Of course this is FAR from the truth. See: “The Dangers of Homosexuality” http://www.trevorgrantthomas.com/p/dangers-of-homosexuality.html

        • Paul Hiett

          Yes, Trevor, people will have to treat homosexuals as equals.

          Imagine the outrage!!!

  • Deedee Keith

    God made woman for man.. he made woman from man, they are the only ones who can procreate, Leviticus 20:13 If a man has sexual relations with a man as he does with a woman, both of them has done what is detestable. They are to be put to death. Their blood will be on their own heads. Why would God make a rule for man and not for the woman. It is an abomination to him, and they will not see the kingdom of heaven, Revelation 21:88 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.Deuteronomy 22:5 – The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so [are] abomination unto the LORD thy God.Romans 1:26-27 – For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature. Proverbs 17:15 – He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both [are] abomination to the LORD.

    9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

    10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

    11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.Leviticus 18:23 – Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it [is] confusion. The word of GOD is eternal and no matter how man or woman try to justify their sin means nothing…Homosexuality, fornication, adultery is a sin. if your a lesbian isn’t that considered homosexuality? Hmmm I think so..

  • PoJoe

    Good for them ,there may still be some hope left in the world.

  • n4cerinc

    Now if these churches would turn their attention to the millions of adulterous affairs posing as marriages (remarriage of divorcees), they will truly be standing on the Word. Come on people, put away that man or that woman like they did in Ezra. Adultery if a man marries a divorced woman. She is tied to her first husband till he dies. Sanctity of marriage should not only be aimed at homosexuals.

  • Lynne

    …prayer for the Church as the sheep separate from apostasy; remembering the LORD’s words: “18”If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. 19″If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you. 20″Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A slave is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also.…”-John 15:18-20.

  • Truthhurts24

    Romans 3:4 Let God be true and every man a liar