‘We’ve Lost Our Way Morally’: Mike Huckabee Announces Run for President of United States

HuckabeeHOPE, Ark. — Former Baptist preacher and Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee announced his candidacy for president of the United States on Tuesday, calling for a major overhaul in Washington and the defense of moral values.

Huckabee spoke before a crowd in Hope, Ark., the place where he was raised, and used the location to often repeat his motto of taking America “from hope to higher ground.” He began by talking about his upbringing, and how he remembers being brought up in the ways of the Lord.

“We prayed at the start of each day [in school], and we prayed again before lunch,” Huckabee recalled. “And I learned that this exceptional country could only be explained by the providence of almighty God.”

Huckabee, who now joins Republican candidates Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, Marco Rubio, Ben Carson and Carly Fiorina in the race for the presidency, said that he does not like what he sees in Washington, including Barack Obama’s condemnation of Christians while he seeks agreements with Muslim nations like Iran that “chant ‘Death to America.'”

“When I hear the current president say he wants Christians to get off their high horse so we can make nice with radical jihadists, I wonder if he could watch a western from the fifties and be able to figure out who the good guys and bad guys are,” he quipped.

Huckabee lamented the moral degradation of America as well, including the issues of abortion and same-sex “marriage.

“We’ve lost our way morally,” he said. “We’ve witnessed the slaughter of over 55 million babies in the name of choice, and we are now threatening our religious liberty by criminalizing Christianity and demanding that we abandon biblical principals of natural marriage.”

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“Many of our politicians have surrendered to the false god of judicial supremacy, which would allow black-robed and unelected judges the power to make law as well as enforce it,” Huckabee continued, “upending the equality of our three branches of government as well as the separation of powers so central to the Constitution.”

He declared that the nation’s courts are not the final authority on moral matters.

“My friends, the Supreme Court is not the Supreme Being and they cannot overturn the laws of nature or of nature’s God,” Huckabee proclaimed, receiving applause.

The former television talk show host who also ran for president in 2008, additionally spoke to those gathered about his desire to balance the budget, pass the fair tax, tackle border control and immigration, abolish the federal Department of Education and upend the IRS, which he referred to as the “biggest bully in America.”

But he added that despite current problems, “[a]s Americans, we ought to get down on our knees every night and thank God that we still live in a country that people are trying to break into rather than one they’re trying to break out of.”

“So, I ask you to join with me today, not just so I can be president, but so we can preserve this great republic, and so someday your children and grandchildren can still go from hope to higher ground,” Huckabee said.

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  • Croco Dile

    “We prayed at the start of each day [in school], and we prayed again before lunch,” Huckabee recalled……

    The act of prayer seems a little odd for people with belief in a god who is supposed to be impassible, omniscient and omnibenevolent. Clearly an omniscient god would already be aware of your problems and know what you want. Ultimately, your request may be regarded by God as either good or evil. If it is good, then why would God not have granted your wishes already? If it is evil, then why would God ever grant your request?

    “Now, you come along, and pray for something. Well suppose the thing you want isn’t in God’s Divine Plan? What do you want Him to do? Change His plan? Just for you? Doesn’t it seem a little arrogant? It’s a Divine Plan. What’s the use of being God if every run-down schmuck with a two-dollar prayerbook can come along and fuck up Your Plan?”— George Carlin

  • Paul Hiett

    He stands no chance. He won’t have the minority vote, the women’s vote, the LGBT vote, and only part of the Christian vote. Someone should tell the Republican party that their ideology is outdated and fading into obscurity. I think we’re looking at another “first” in the White House…Clinton.

    • Machiavellian

      Bernie Sanders!

    • LeftCoast

      You are right Paul, the reps are outdated and he has no chance. what is the alternative? raise our taxes, unemployment and socialism. The Dems want to turn us into Venezuela. I guess socialism is ok as long as we all get what we want.

      • weasel1886

        Some socialism would be great.

        • LeftCoast

          please explain? It’s like taxes, temporary or limited, it ends up being permit and increasing. So when and where is socialism good?

          • weasel1886

            Utilities, healthcare, some banking, transportation.

      • Paul Hiett

        I’d love to see a flat tax enabled, personally, and cut the tax breaks for rich. Cannabis needs to be legalized across the board, and gay marriage legalized. They also need to reform the health care for the middle class, and start pouring money back into our country rather than wasting it on the military actions around the world.

        • LeftCoast

          I love the flat tax idea. Everyone should be taxed the same and the rich get no breaks. But, aren’t we striving to be rich? I have to add, we need to put money back into schools. Not the teachers or Admin but to the students like vocational skills, computers and more money for school loans or grants. Term limits on congress and also they work for free. No extra perks and benefits. My brother is a vet, we need to give them more.
          We have some great ideas here but what candidate is going to stick his or her neck out to make changes, NONE. Obama promised change but we got nothing.

          • Paul Hiett

            Oh yes, schools..the truth is, our country has enough money to feed and home everyone, and provide everyone with a college education. But, we’re too concerned about things that don’t concern us and sink money into those.

          • LeftCoast

            Amen, LOL, preach brother!!!!!
            We can do so much with our taxes but our leaders don’t care as long as their agenda, donors and parties are being pleased. We need a real American Pres to go to DC and rip that place to shreds. But we can start in our home states, counties and city.

  • FoJC_Forever

    America lost it’s way morally a very long time ago. Evil grows like cancer, and those who are lost in Sin eat it up like dogs eating their vomit. It is unfortunate that so many choose the Wide Path to Destruction, but it is as Jesus (the) Christ revealed to us so many centuries ago. The Time is short, and those of us who know and love Jesus (the) Christ need to continue to do His Will and fulfill our Callings.

    What’s unfortunate about politics and the culture in the USA is that the majority of people involved and living in it want Evil and Darkness. They simply act like Lucifer, inventing their own truth and looking to anyone and anything else for meaning and fulfillment. The country’s destiny is not our destiny, for we are the blood bought, born-again Believers in God’s power of Salvation through Jesus (the) Christ.

    • Paul Hiett

      There are borders north and south you can walk through easily, if you don’t like it here anymore. The truth is, the republican party’s ideology is outdated and no longer has a place in the world we live in. When you have a group of people that refuse to allow medical help to our veterans because they’re too ignorant about a small plant, you’ve got a group of people that are actually hindering us, rather than wanting to help.

      All the republican party wants to do, and Huckabee is a great example, is turn this country into a theocracy. Unless they’re willing to understand the real issues in society, they, and their ideology, will soon be a thing of the past.

      • WorldGoneCrazy

        “The truth is, the republican party’s ideology is outdated and no longer has a place in the world we live in.”

        You sound very “tolerant.”

        • Paul Hiett

          Would you care to refute what I said?

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            No refutation necessary. You have shown yourself for what you are, Paul. God bless!

        • This was never about truth. Only more lies.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Amen, Watchman! And thank you SO much for being a watchman! It is a thankless job for sure. (Ezekiel 33) God bless!

      • FoJC_Forever

        You’re incorrect. The Republican Party has no more desire to turn America into a Theocracy than do the Democrats. You are obviously misinformed about the nature of our current two party system. Two sides of the same coin, which simply gets flipped on a regular basis.

        • Paul Hiett

          I don’t see the democrats using religion to fight gay marriage. I don’t see the democrats using religion to justify firing people for using birth control. I don’t see democrats preaching about god in this country and how gay marriage is the cause of our problems. Sorry, but all I see republicans doing is preaching about god, and demanding we ALL turn to Christianity. Yes, most certainly they want a theocracy.

          • The only ones getting fired are Biblical Christians who refuse to tell deviants what their itching ears wish to hear.

            You are a proven liar and a wicked fool besides. Only fools listen to liars like you. You are a son of the devil, the father of lies and we are at the end. You’re toast.

        • And under both sides advances relentlessly and methodically toward the “jewish” vision of hell on earth: the New World Order global police state.

      • You are right Paul, and many of us who study the Bible and know our history see that this will lead to persecution. That’s why Separation of Church and State is so important.

        • How do you argue that when the IRS 501c3 compliance rules dictate that corrupt and fraudulent Church is glued at the hip to the dictates of the almighty State?

          Separation of Church and State is a total fraud and con job.

      • Part of the old Hegelian dialectic, eh? The issue never was about meaningless political party labels regarding two branches of a totally corrupt and deceptive one-party system, both arms of which are bought and paid for by the same 4,000 “jews” who comprise the membership of the CFR, our shadow government which controls everything.

        The issue is about truth v. lies. Huckabee is just another former pastor, political and talk show radio host who lies. He is no less or more guilty than Hilda the Beast of lies and deceit.

        We are at the end. In roughly 18 months Yahushua (Jesus) returns to gather the elect in fulfillment of the prophecy of Matthew 24:30-31 and shortly thereafter, all hell breaks loose on the wicked of this world who remain. American electoral politicks is a charade, a sham, illusory theater, a fraud and a monumental con job to deceive the naive and the gullible. Perhaps you are one of them. Good for you. Just don’t expect anyone of any truth or wisdom to heed another thing you say.

    • weasel1886

      We live in the most moral times in history. Tell when there was a better more moral time ?

      • Brenda Cressey


        • Paul Hiett

          Can you think of a time when we were more moral than now?

          • Brenda Cressey

            I can, yes, but that also depends on the moral code so to speak.

          • Paul Hiett


          • WorldGoneCrazy

            An a-theist talks about morality – what a laugh! You are not allowed to do so, Paul, as per your “pope” and “cardinals:”

            “In a universe of blind physical forces and genetic replication,
            some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won’t find any rhyme or reason in it, or any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference… DNA neither knows nor cares. DNA just is. And we dance to its music.” (Richard Dawkins, River Out of
            Eden: A Darwinian View of Life (1995))

            “Let me summarize my views on what modern evolutionary biology tells us loud and clear — and these are basically Darwin’s views. There are no gods, no purposes, and no goal-directed forces of any kind. There is no life after death. When I die, I am absolutely certain that I am going to be dead. That’s
            the end of me. There is no ultimate foundation for ethics, no ultimate meaning in life, and no free will for humans, either.”
            A-theist William Provine

            “The position of the modern evolutionist is that humans have an
            awareness of morality because such an awareness of biological worth. Morality is a biological adaptation no less than are hands and feet and teeth. Considered as a rationally justifiable set of claims about an objective something, ethics is illusory. I appreciate when someone says, ‘Love thy neighbor as thyself,’ they think they are referring above and beyond themselves. Nevertheless, such reference is truly without foundation. Morality
            is just an aid to survival and reproduction, . . . and any deeper meaning is illusory.” (Michael Ruse, “Evolutionary Theory and Christian Ethics,” in The Darwinian Paradigm (London: Routledge, 1989), pp. 262-269).

            Paul, if you think that slavery comes even close to the slaughter (supported by 97% of a-theists, I might add) of 57 million innocent defenseless human beings in the womb, you are one sick puppy jacked up on glue. Regardless, you have no business even speaking about morality: as an a-theist, you have no grounds for objective moral values and duties. So, when you speak of objective morality, you are stealing from God – thank you for acknowledging Him!

          • Paul Hiett

            Ken Hovind, whom you folks love, said that if there was no god, there would be no prison to hold him, that he would do whatever he wants.

            The difference between that kind of Christian morality and mine, is that that I don’t need a book to tell me what is right and what is wrong. It’s ok if you do though. Some people aren’t strong enough to do the right thing without being told.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Paul, we have been through this before: you are confusing moral ontology and moral epistemology. Please study up! The fact that an a-theist, like you, can sometimes behave morally is because your Creator God has written His law on your (now fallen and fallible) heart. That is just Romans 2:15 in a nutshell.

            The problem that you face, and other a-theists like you, is NOT that you can sometimes behave morally, but that you have absolutely no objective grounds for doing so, under a-theism! That’s right: when you behave objectively morally or assert objective moral values and duties, you are literally acknowledging God’s existence. (Thank you for doing so!) And, THAT is what Dawkins, Provine, and Ruse are saying in the quotes above. Accordingly, you are an inferior a-theist when you assert objective moral claims:

            “[To] all my Atheist friends.
            Let us stop sugar coating it. I know, it’s hard to come out and be blunt with the friendly Theists who frequent sites like this. However in your efforts to “play nice” and “be civil” you actually do them a great disservice. We are Atheists. We believe that the Universe is a great uncaused, random accident. All life in the Universe past and future are the results of random chance acting on itself. While we acknowledge concepts like morality, politeness, civility seem to exist, we know they do not. Our highly evolved brains imagine that these things have a cause or a use, and they have in the past, they’ve allowed life to continue on this planet for a short blip of time. But make no mistake: all our dreams, loves, opinions, and desires are figments of our primordial imagination. They are fleeting electrical signals that fire across our synapses for a moment in
            time. They served some purpose in the past. They got us here. That’s it. All human achievement and plans for the future are the result of some ancient, evolved brain and accompanying chemical reactions that once served a survival purpose. Ex: I’ll marry and nurture children because my genes demand
            reproduction, I’ll create because creativity served a survival advantage to my ancient ape ancestors, I’ll build cities and laws because this allowed my ape grandfather time and peace to reproduce and protect his genes. My only directive is to obey my genes. Eat, sleep, reproduce, die. That is our bible.

            We deride the Theists for having created myths and holy books. We imagine ourselves superior. But we too imagine there are reasons to obey laws, be polite, protect the weak etc.
            Rubbish. We are nurturing a new religion, one where we imagine that such conventions have any basis in reality. Have they allowed life to exist? Absolutely. But who cares? Outside of my greedy little gene’s need to reproduce, there is nothing in my world that stops me from killing you and reproducing with your wife. Only the fear that I might be incarcerated and thus
            be deprived of the opportunity to do the same with the next guy’s wife stops me. Some of my Atheist friends have fooled themselves into acting like the general population. They live in suburban homes, drive Toyota Camrys, attend school plays. But underneath they know the truth. They are a bag of DNA whose only purpose is to make more of themselves. So be nice if you want. Be involved, have polite conversations, be a model citizen. Just be aware that while technically an Atheist, you are an inferior one. You’re just a little bit less evolved, that’s all. When you are ready to join me, let me know, I’ll be
            reproducing with your wife.

            I know it’s not PC to speak so bluntly about the ramifications of our beliefs, but in our discussions with Theists we sometimes tip toe around what we really know to be factual. Maybe it’s time we Atheists were a little more truthful and let the chips fall where they may. At least that’s what my genes are telling me
            to say.” — unknown a-theist

        • weasel1886

          Yes really. Tell me when the golden age of morals was. Was it when we held slaves or practiced genocide on natives. How about when we were practicing eugenics on people with learning disabilities ?

          • Brenda Cressey

            Oh maybe back when kids knew who their daddy was because mommy was married to him. Back when parents raised their own kids and worked to support their families instead of collecting welfare checks or disability checks when they are perfectly capable of working. Back when people didn’t rob pharmacies to support their drug habits and didn’t rob banks in record numbers to support said drug habits. Back when people werent rioting in the streets in America because the police, people we should be able to trust with our lives, are killing innocent people. Back when people lived simple lives. They grew up, got their education, got married, had kids, raised them, enjoyed their grandkids, then they died. Back when people didn’t walk into our childrens schools and kill innocent children and their teachers. Back when teachers didn’t molest their students. Back when kids couldn’t buy illegal drugs at school. The world we are living in now is nothing like when I was growing up. It’s not like it was when my parents and grandparents were growing up. I could go on and on but I wont, I have carpal tunnel ;).

          • weasel1886

            Back when women had few rights, blacks drank at separate drinking fountains, back when there were labor riots, back in 1960 when the murder rate was higher than today, back in the 20’s and 30’s when prostitution was legal in many parts of the USA, back during prohibition when gangsters ruled cities, back when children were forced to quit school to work in factories, back when polio was a major fear, back when molested kids didn’t dare speak up, back when innocent black men could be arrested when little white girl game up pregnant and claimed rape, back when if someone thought you were a “sissy” you would get beat up and nothing was done I could go on and on but I wont, I have carpal tunnel ;).
            The idea that somehow everything was great in the USA in the old days is false.
            BTW fewer banks are robbed today than every before and crime has gone down the last 20 years

          • Brenda Cressey

            Yes, back when women could violently murder their own children, so long as they did it before the child was born. This country isn’t any less racist today then it was when slavery was legal. If the crime rate is going down then how is the prison population growing larger? I don’t know where you got your statistics from but the murder rate is substantially higher today than it was in the 1960’s. The overall crime rate may have gone down in the last couple of decades but it’s still much higher then it was 50-100 years ago.
            Also, what does polio have to do with morals? Is a child not speaking out against abuse immoral?

          • weasel1886

            FBI stats. We have laws to protect the civil rights of blacks and it isn’t legal to whip and beat people that you could own, and yes I child living in fear is immoral.
            There was abortion in past times. Why were laws passed against it?

          • Brenda Cressey

            You do realize that abortion was legalized as a means to eradicate the “African American” population in the United States, right? Statistics prove that abortion rates are highest amongst black women between the ages of 17 and 23. Black genocide legalized. Civil rights my ass.

          • Paul Hiett

            If you read what he wrote, which is exactly what I would have responded with (alas, it was later here), can you really say those were times where the US was more “moral” than now?

          • Brenda Cressey

            ummm…yes i can…..but i guess that also depends on how you define morals…..

          • Paul Hiett

            So a period of time when we were allowed to keep blacks and whites separated, and women as second class citizens…that was a more “moral” time? How about when we committed genocide against native Americans? What about slavery?

            How exactly are you defining your morality here?

          • Brenda Cressey

            If slavery is the only act of immorality you can think of during that time period then yes that was a much more moral time.

          • Paul Hiett

            Did you miss where I mentioned genocide and how women were treated? Do we need to discuss child labor as well? How about how we treated anyone who wasn’t white?

          • Brenda Cressey

            How is any of that immoral when it was all legal?

          • Paul Hiett

            Are you really equating “legal” to “moral”? So in your mind, owning slaves was not immoral because it was legal? Killing off the native Americans wasn’t immoral because it was legal?

          • Yes, I can. I am God’s true prophet in these final days of the end times and God has revealed that this time (the great tribuatlion foretold in Daniel 12 and Matthew 24 for thousands of years) is more immoral than at any other time in all of world history at Matthew 24:21-22. You can’t see it and never will because you number among the non-elect whom God plans to soon destroy and condemn to eternal torment in the burning lake of fire and brimstone. It is much deserved. In the meantime, it is easy to see that God has sent strong delusion upon you.

            YHWH has spoken. He says you’re toast.

          • Harry

            You are the one with the strong delusion. Only fools believe the sun rotates around the earth. Only fools believe we are in the middle of the tribulation. Isn’t that right Dave?

          • Remember, you cannot reason with wicked liars. You’re right.

            But we are at the end. We are living through the days of the great tribulation right now. It ends on October 2, 2016. Sometime during the 45 days which follow, Christ returns to gather the elect in fulfillment of the prophecy of Matthew 24:30-31. After that window of time closes, He returns to slay the wicked and weasel1886 will be among them.

          • You’re a son of the devil, the father of lies and all liars. You end is coming soon, demon. But then again, you knew that already, didn’t you?

          • weasel1886

            Lions, and tigers and demons oh my!
            So how are bringing about my end? Shoot me?

          • “Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.” Romans 12:19

            “The fear of the LORD (YHWH) is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.” Proverbs 1:7

            “The LORD (YHWH) hath made all things for himself; yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.” Proverbs 16:4

            This has nothing to do with me. It has everything to do with YHWH and Yahushua. Your fairy tales cannot save you from His wrath and fury. You’re toast starting in roughly 18 months. You can count on that with 100% certainty, wicked fool.

            YHWH has spoken.

          • weasel1886

            Cool I can’t wait !!!

          • Tell it to YHWH. He’s not amused.

          • You must be a psychopath demon-possessed “jew.” Nobody can be as evil as you prove yourself tom be and not be a an impostor posing as a Jew besides.

          • weasel1886

            Come get me Adolph

          • Not your time just yet pathological liar and psychopath impostor posing as a Jew boy.

            When it comes in about 18 months, it won’t be at my hands, but by Yahushua (Jesus) treading the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God upon you, in fulfillment of the prophecy of Revelation 19:15. I’m merely His messenger.

            Scoffers and mockers are merely revealing their deficient characters as wicked fools. Boast about it all you like. Your days are sharply numbered.

            YHWH has spoken. You’re toast.

          • weasel1886

            Your disgusting Mr. Nazi

          • Thus saith the wicked “jew” boy who demonizes anyone who fails to lick his boots as the jack-booted thug and fraud that all “jews” (impostors posing as Jews) are and always have been.

            “We Jews do not like to admit it, but our God is Lucifer… We are his chosen people…” — Harold Rosenthal from “The Hidden Tyranny” (1976)

            Looks like someone let the cat out of the bag a bit prematurely!!

            For the record, the holohoax is a colossal fraud. Deal with it.

          • weasel1886

            The banana holds the secret code to the dark soul places. Don’t tell the workman fish about the crevasse of the almighty you know what

          • Yes Virginia, the world truly has gone mad. Here’s a perfect example of just that. It’s a sure fire sign of the end.

          • weasel1886

            Wait I hear a voice.

          • Oh you hear a legion of voices: all of them demonic.

          • weasel1886

            Thanks Adolph for setting me straight

          • Yeah, you pathological liars and demon-possessed psychopath “jews” demonized Adolf Hitler just as you demonize white males, Arab Muslims and Russians today. It’s your M.O. It gives you away. You’re not half as clever as you think you are.

          • weasel1886

            Cleaver enough to get you to keep posting your filth and murder thoughts.

          • You ain’t half as clever as you think you are psycho. Murder? That’s not my bag: that’s the bag of you mass murdering impostors posing as Jews of today. Filth? What would you demon-possessed pathological liars and psychos know about filth? You DEFINE that term!!

      • FoJC_Forever

        Your first statement is incorrect. We don’t live in the most moral times of history.

        • Paul Hiett

          When would that be then?

        • weasel1886

          I disagree

          • amostpolitedebate

            Nono you don’t understand man. They’re not talking about petty things like helping the poor, racial equality, or treating your fellow man with kindness and respect. They’re talking about things like the totally unfair way Christians are now expected to share society with people of other religions/cultures, how much skin is shown on the TV or the way that boys are allowed to kiss other boys now.

            You know, IMPORTANT things.

          • weasel1886

            I understand. If your wealthy God loves loves you, if you are poor your just a piece of trash that is going to hell.

      • Gregory Alan of Johnson

        1620, with the Mayflower Compact.

        • weasel1886

          Yeah that might be better

      • You’ve seriously GOT to be kidding, blind or a pathological liar! Which is it?

        We live in the last days of the great tribulation: the most immoral time ion all of world history. This is why Yahushua (Christ) returns in late 2016 to gather the elect and then returns to slay the wicked just as end times Bible prophecy has predicted for thousands of years would happen.

        When was a more moral time? 1600s – 1800s in America.

        • weasel1886

          My tinfoil stock just went up

          • That sad old tread-worn tripe? Ain’t workin’ now demon!

            Here’s why:

            “Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid that shall not be known.” Matthew 10:26

            Think you can thwart the sovereign will of almighty YHWH? Think again. It’s effectively over. You’re toast and you know it.

          • weasel1886

            Can i pocess your soul? I think i will

          • Can’t spel real good, can you demon? All demons are bone ass stupid. You can’t touch me, Demon. I leave no legal grounds for you to infest or afflict me. You’re toast in 18 months.

          • weasel1886

            You can butter me anytime you like. Then you can eat me

          • I suggest you bend over and kiss your sorry pus-filled ass good-bye. It’s over. You’re toast.

          • weasel1886

            Nice taught from a Christian I so like getting into your head

          • You can’t even come close to getting into my head, wicked fool. You’re totally insane and so filled with demons they seep out of your every bodily orifice.

          • weasel1886

            Have aome I don’t need them all

    • Croco Dile

      “We prayed at the start of each day [in school], and we prayed again before lunch,” Huckabee recalled……

      The act of prayer seems a little odd for people with belief in a god who is supposed to be impassible, omniscient and omnibenevolent. Clearly an omniscient god would already be aware of your problems and know what you want. Ultimately, your request may be regarded by God as either good or evil. If it is good, then why would God not have granted your wishes already? If it is evil, then why would God ever grant your request?

      “Now, you come along, and pray for something. Well suppose the thing you want isn’t in God’s Divine Plan? What do you want Him to do? Change His plan? Just for you? Doesn’t it seem a little arrogant? It’s a Divine Plan. What’s the use of being God if every run-down schmuck with a two-dollar prayerbook can come along and f*ck up Your Plan?”— George Carlin

      • John_33

        In reply to your comment, yes, God is omniscient and knows everything we need, but He also wants us to pray, seek, and ask Him things, not because He won’t know what to do if we don’t tell Him, but because He wants to deal with us personally. When we pray for something good, God gives it to His children because He’s faithful and because it teaches the believer about God’s character through the experience. He’s not some magic butler that gives us everything while we ignore Him. He wants us to know Him.

        • Paul Hiett

          Which is fine for you, but what about those of us who choose a different belief in our lives? In America, do we not have the right to do that, and to live under law that does not discriminate based on which religious belief we choose?

          • John_33

            I wasn’t discussing American law.

          • Paul Hiett

            Ah, so you want a theocracy. Gotcha.

          • John_33

            I don’t know how you got that from my reply. Croco Dile asked why God would ever want prayer, and I responded to that. We weren’t talking about law.

          • Paul Hiett

            You are absolutely correct, and I offer my sincere apologies. I completely misread what you wrote.

          • John_33

            Apology accepted. No worries.

          • wandakate

            It’s either your own way (the way of selfish) or it’s GOD’s way. Yes, we have a choice, but what we choose determines our eternity.

        • Croco Dile

          A god (or “deity”) is a being with supernatural powers.
          What you are describing is purely human.
          I thought Christians reject a god being human.

          Christian theology has traditionally defined God (Yahweh) to be the omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent lone creator of the entire universe. This is not compatible with what you wrote.

          • John_33

            He is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent, yet He wants to teach us more about Him by having us deal with Him on a personal level. The two are not incompatible.

          • Croco Dile

            In the case of the Christian god, we are asked to explain the existence of a vast, complex, incomprehensible universe by inventing an even more vast, complex, incomprehensible being, which also happens to be intelligent enough to “plan” the entire history of the universe and still micromanage the details enough to answer prayers, account for who will go to heaven and hell, and deal with minutiae like how people deal with seemingly arbitrary rules about sex.

          • John_33

            It’s not hard to accept this explanation. The universe and everything in it bears witness of God. It logically follows that the God who created the universe would be the same One who ordered it. As you said yourself, if the universe is so vast, complex, and incomprehensible, then the Being who made it must be even more vast, complex, and incomprehensive. He is powerful enough to plan every detail since He created it. This is especially true for the God of the Bible since it says that He even created time. That’s why answering prayers and determining who is righteous or wicked is not a struggle for Him. Since He is wise enough to make something as vast and complex as the universe, we know that His commandments must reflect that same wisdom, even if they may appear arbitrary. After all, if God’s creation – the universe – appears incomprehensible to us even though it is made with such precision in wisdom, then the rest of God’s ways, including His commandments, must be the same way.

            That’s why we need God to teach us. We are too small and insignificant to find what we ought to do. We will never find out what God wants of us unless He comes down to show us the way. The Bible says that God is so great that He needs to humble Himself to look at what is occurring in heaven. If God is so great that He must humble Himself to look at heaven, how much must He humble Himself to look at what goes on in the earth? A lot more, yet He still does it. In fact, not only did He humble Himself to look at what goes on in earth, but He humbled Himself enough to become a man and die a cruel death by His creation and chose to bear our sins to take our punishment in our place. The same God who made this universe also took on death, shame, and destruction, and He did it for us. That is a God of power and love, and it’s only an omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent God who could do that.

          • Croco Dile

            Treated purely as an explanatory device, introducing a god into the universe raises far more questions than it answers. It brings up the obvious question of who created God. Science tends to reason from the complex to the simple, finding explanations of natural phenomena by breaking them down into basic rules. Of all the things we know of in the universe, intelligence in particular is one of the most complex and mysterious phenomena observed. To suppose that we could “explain” the universe by introducing a universe-spanning intelligence is completely backwards from the way science normally operates.

            All this would be strictly academic nitpicking if there were any positive evidence for the existence of a god. Yet when pressed for evidence, apologists are notoriously vague. Rather than pointing to specific reasons why anyone should believe in such an improbable being, they point to the Bible as a historically accurate text, which is not; they bring up philosophical vagaries such as the first cause argument and the argument from design, and they threaten hell by means of Pascal’s wager.
            No test is ever proposed to demonstrate or falsify the existence of God.

          • John_33

            I understand this is a copy-paste from other websites, but I will answer it anyways. It’s not contradictory to point to God as the source for all things. For example, let’s take the argument in the first paragraph about science and apply it to something that we both know. We are both replying to each other through computers. If we followed the argument and tried to explain the scientific method behind our computers using only our computers, then we would analyze the chips and motherboard and break the components down to simpler forms until we discovered silicon, metal, electricity, and their respective reactions.

            While this would tell us a lot about our computers, it would not locate the human being who assembled the parts since that being is outside of the computer. The computer bears evidence that a human built it – it bears his or her intelligence since it required computational skills, mechanical know-how, and complex engineering to put it all together. We know that the source of the computer is more complex than the computer itself. It’s the same way with God but on a much greater scale. We can break down the universe until we reach atoms and quarks and other things, but just like the computer, it won’t be enough to actually discover the Author since He is outside of the universe. Much like how the computer bears evidence that a human made it, the universe bears evidence that God made it. The universe bears God’s intelligence since it required wisdom, power, and love to put to together.

            There is a lot of evidence for God. All you need to do is look for it. As mentioned already, Creation bears evidence of Him. You are even evidence of Him since you are made in His image. A good example of that is our conscience. Even though many cultures have very different morals and ethics, every human being has a conscience that tells us to avoid certain universal principles. Why do we have it? Because God put it there so we would know right from wrong. If there was no God, then there would be no reason to have it since it inhibits us from doing certain things.

            That’s why certain ideologies that denied God, such as Communism, taught that you could not trust your conscience. They said that the conscience was subjected to lies that were enforced by political and religious leaders. According to them, disobeying your conscience was the only way to achieve the revolution that would lead to paradise on earth. Of course, this had disastrous results as millions tragically died. The truth is that God made us to live a certain way to fulfill His will. To achieve this, He gave us a conscience so we would know right from wrong. This is part of what it means to be created in His image. He then gave us the Bible to learn more about Him so we would know the truth in more detail.

            God gave us enough evidence for us to seek and find Him. He wants us to follow Him and choose Him above all else since He is good and our Creator. The Bible says that we are fearfully and wonderfully made, and it’s true. We are God’s special creation that He made so we would be able to know Him personally.

          • Paul Hiett

            All things considered, can’t we apply that same explanation to the existence of any deity?

          • John_33

            You are somewhat correct, but not entirely. Many deities aren’t known for love or wisdom. Also, many aren’t credited with creating the universe, so these don’t apply. But as you pointed out, this explanation applies to the existence of a deity who is the Creator, but which deity does it show? And how would we know? This is where God needs to bridge the gap for us. There is absolutely no way that we can find the right God on our own. How could we? You can’t find God by doing some great work or by climbing some mountain and meriting His favor.

            The only way that we can find God is if He personally reveals Himself to us, and He has done this in various ways. He’s given us His Word and even His life, yet there’s more. God promised that He will reveal Himself to those who search for Him with their whole hearts. When they do, then He reveals Himself.

          • Jim H

            “The only way that we can find God is if He personally reveals Himself to us, and He has done this in various ways.”

            The problem is that everyone thinks the way he revealed himself to them is the right, and usually the only or, at the very least, the final and best way.

            For Jews, it was Moses and Talmud. For Muslims it was Mohammed and the Koran. For Christians it was Jesus and the New Testament. For Mormons it was Joseph Smith and whatever he called the book he wrote from the gold tablets the angel Maroni gave him.

            If we just look at Christianity: According to the Dictionary of Christianity in America [Protestant] (Downers Grove, IL: Intervarsity Press, 1990):

            “As of 1980 David B. Barrett identified 20,800 Christian denominations worldwide.
            That means, since the reformation ended strictly Catholic orthodox belief, Christians have found over 20.000 things to disagree about what God has supposedly personally revealed about himself through his word and whatever else.

          • John_33

            You’re looking at it from the wrong perspective. What happens when you turn on a light? It dispels the darkness and enables you to clearly see. That’s what truth does to ignorance. It dispels it and enables us to distinguish fact from fiction. When God reveals Himself and gives us the truth, the light comes on and we see what is true and what is false. We aren’t looking for denominations or for people who believe that their religion is true. We are looking for God Almighty Himself. God is able to pierce through our misconceptions and ignorance to reach us. What God wants us to do is to repent and believe on Him. He’s faithful and will guide everyone who wants Him. Even the feeblest attempts to come to Him He will not put down. There’s no reason not to look for Him. He won’t cast out any who come to Him.

          • Jim H

            “You’re looking at it from the wrong perspective.”
            I would say the same about you and would add that your reply does not address anything I said..

          • That’s because you are spiritually blind and always will be. You were created by God as one of His vessels of dishonor fitted unto destruction and wrath. You’re headed for hell. Just deal with it. Why do you care that a few others are not damned as you clearly are?

          • Jim H

            You must be omniscient to know that means you are either mentally ill and suffering from a messianic complex or intentionally blaspheming.

            You need to read Luke 18:9-14, which starts with:

            And He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt:

          • You really need to cease reading other people’s mail. The Bible was not written to the likes of you. It was written for the elect, those of us of the truth, chosen by God since before the world began whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life, who would one day, at a time and manner of God’s choosing and initiative, put His Holy Spirit in us, orchestrate events so that we would hear the full gospel preached (first the bad news of man’s total depravity and heading to hell at birth, and then the good news that God came to earth to pay the price we deserved to pay so that His righteousness might be imputed to us if we submit our lives and our wills to Him), we believe and become His born again adopted sons and daughters of the living Christ.

            It’s rude to read other people’s mail that you will never be able to comprehend anyway. That hardly takes omniscience. Merely spiritual discernment. I have it. You don’t. Deal with it.

            The wicked and the foolish deserve to be treated with nothing but contempt by the righteous:

            “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness; but rather prove (expose and rebuke) them.” Ephesians 5:11

            So what’s the beef?

          • Jim H

            Actually, I appreciate the fact that you have dropped any charade of being a loving Christian who cares about the souls of other peoples. There is a part of me that still wants to believe that, despite my disagreements with them, Christians are kind people who really do mean well. It is refreshing that you just openly present yourself as self righteous, judgmental and presumptuous. I would probably enjoy your book. I’ve been reading end time since Hal Lindsey started predicting the rapture and end-times back in the 1970.

            In The Late, Great Planet Earth, Lindsey predicted that the Soviet Union would play the role of antagonist during the End Times. The Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, forcing him to change his End Times antagonist to radical Islam.

            In 1980, Lindsey published The 1980s: Countdown to Armageddon, making the prediction that a pre-tribulational rapture would take place in 1981, seven years before Israel’s 40th anniversary as a reestablished nation, because the founding of Israel set off a “prophetic clock” which committed Jesus to wrap things up within a “generation” (i.e. 40 years).
            When Jesus didn’t return in 1981 or 1988, he said that a
            generation could be 70 years, so Jesus should return before 2018.

            In Facing Millennial Midnight: The Y2K Crisis Confronting America and the World, Lindsey predicted widespread confusion and panic over the Y2K crisis, seven years before the 40th anniversary of the capture of Jerusalem by the Israelis, which was the event which really started the prophetic clock ticking all along.
            Of course, Y2K was a bust, and 2007 passed without Armageddon happening, so we’re back to the 70 year generation idea. So maybe 2018, but 2037 for sure.

            I would read your book, because I haven’t had a good laugh over this stuff, since the Left Behind series. However, if I bought your book you would profit from it, so I think I’ll pass.

          • Telling wicked fools what their itching ears wish to hear, (namely lies) is not love in the least. That is merely hatred for the long-term best interests of one’s fellow man. Doing such a wicked and vile thing is a total fraud and many engage in it and will soon perish for it.

            As for the rest, Tim LaHaye and Hal Lindsey are profligate liars, sons of the devil and globalists who serve the devil. Yahushua promised us that there would be many false prophets in the last days and their have been. That should surprise none. What few grasp, is that YHWH sends His true prophets right before the end every time before He pours His full wrath and fury out upon the wicked. This happened right before the Flood in Noah, right before the northern kingdom of Israel was sacked and destroyed by the Assyrians in 722 B.C., right before the southern kingdom of Judah was sacked and destroyed by the Babylonians in 586 B.C. and each time it was preceded by the wickedness of man. Now is the fourth and final time. History is repeating itself and you think you are exempt from God’s eternal wrath upon the wicked and the foolish? Think again. Those who fail to study history are doomed to repeat it.

            Scoff all you like. You merely fulfill end times Bible prophecy of 2 Peter 3:3-4 when you do.

          • Jim H

            You just told me that wicked fools do not warrant charm and civility: merely exposure and rebuke, followed by having nothing further to do with you. But your huge ego and messianic complex can’t resist any opportunity to preach and draw more attention to your sad self.

          • Who’s the one who is DESPERATE here to deny the obvious and objective truth?

            I have no interest in the limelight. That’s why I use my descriptive moniker instead. I must decrease so that Yahushua might increase. Because after all, I am proclaiming the coming day of the LORD in late 2016!! Now THAT’s worth celebrating! May He receive all the glory!

            You just resent the objective truths I teach. Bummer for you. If you want them to stop, you won’t reply. But you really cannot help yourself, can you, demon? Your arrogance and your misplaced pride demands that you keep on revealing what a wicked fool you inhabit. We all get it. it’s really quite obvious.

            This is what the end looks like. Yes Virginia, the world truly has gone mad. God planned it this way.

          • retona4

            “I have no interest in the limelight. That’s why I use my descriptive moniker instead.”

            Because if you used your real name- David Curtis- the cops would’ve arrested you by now.

          • retona4

            “Because after all, I am proclaiming the coming day of the LORD in late
            2016!! Now THAT’s worth celebrating! May He receive all the glory!”

            Spitting on Matthew 24:36, David Curtis?

          • SpiderWatch

            So do you want a call on the 18th of November next year, or would you rather wait until Thanksgiving?

          • Jim H

            You probably use your descriptive moniker, because you don’t want the nice men in the pretty white coats to figure out here you are.

            Your arrogance and your misplaced pride demands that you keep calling me names and threatening me with Hell after you said you were done with me.
            You just can’t stop replying and, though it is not really normally a behavior I would approve of, it is just so much fun egging you on to continue your ridiculous hateful rant. So its hard far me to stop replying. I can almost visualize you at your computer so wound up your head is about to explode, angrily typing away.
            The only thing obvious is that you are an angry nut job posing as a follower of Jesus.


          • You’re desperate, troll. Truly desperate. I’m using you as a teaching tool and you don’t even know it. It’s really quite funny.

          • Jim H

            I admit that a very small part of the world has gone mad, because I’m talking to it.

          • Yes Virginia, the lunatics are running the insane asylum. It’s not just your imagination.

          • Jim H

            I don’t know that they are running the asylum, but they obviously are writing books and running blogs.

          • No, you’re not intelligent or honest enough to do such intellectually challenging things. Desperate to be sure. Intelligent or honest enough? Definitely not.

          • Jim H

            It funny how easy it is to lead the elect to resorting to inane sophomoric insults, while they declare how superior the are.

          • How ironic! The wicked always accuse their enemies of the crimes they are most guilty of.

            Superior? God says so. So it must be true. Let’s wait and see, shall we chum?

          • Jim H

            We’ll see whether it is God who says so or just an ego-maniac with a messianic complex would-be prophet.
            So, if nothing happens after your end time date in 2016 will you give a refund to people who bought your stupid book, or will just keep writing them and with the date moved back, as most in the apocalypse business do so they can make more money off the ignorant?
            Is that why you never use your own name? So no one can track you down?

          • The truth is not about ME. I must decrease so that God and Jesus might increase. Truth is like that. You’d never understand. You only seek to shoot the messenger and ignore the messages of the objective truth you don’t want to hear and try to suppress and silence any way you can. Pretty stupid. That’s what all wicked fools are.

          • Jim H

            Why must you do anything? According to your own stupid theology it is all a done deal and the script will just play out. Makes the job of messenger pretty useless. You can’t save anyone.

            According to you I’m “wicked” by design. I have no choice in the matter. I’m just playing the role God decided to give me. Aren’t I simply doing his will? If that makes anyone wicked wouldn’t it be God who wrote the script?

          • Why do you even care? You claim God doesn’t exist. Why not go off and sin like hell and play Russian Roulette with your eternity? That would at least be consistent and show some integrity in how you live your life in reckless rebellion against and at enmity with God.

            Yes, of course God wrote the script you’re acting out; just as He wrote mine and everyone else’s who has ever lived. This isn’t “my” theology. This is what God’s flawless and inspired words teach the wise, the elect that applies to all of mankind for the past 6,000 years. I’m merely His faithful messenger, remember? I don’t make the rules. I just teach and explain them accurately and faithfully.

            No one saves anyone. Only God does that and only for His elect at a time and in a manner of His choosing and at His initiative, not ours.

            Ezekiel 3:17-21 and 33:1-11 dictate the script YHWH has assigned to me. I didn’t choose it and frankly, I wish He had delegated that to someone else far more worthy than I am. I don’t want it. But that’s just the point: life is not about what I want. Life is about what YHWH wills, to which I willingly and lovingly submit, just as my Lord Yahushua modeled for me with His example for me and the rest of the elect to follow.

            Your response to my obedience to my script from YHWH is quite predictable and of no surprise at all. You fail to heed it and in the doing of same, perish in your sins and unbelief, just as God prophesied you would, in His Bible. See? God never lies, changes or fails. History is repeating itself. Those who fail to study history, are doomed to repeat it.

            How is this fair to you? You know the rules as well as I do. The wages of sin is death and we are all born depraved wicked sinners heading to hell and separated from a right relationship with God at birth. So eternal damnation in hell is perfectly fair and applies to everyone. Who are you to object if God chooses to offer a few of us a pardon we don’t deserve? It appears to me that you suffer from unbridled envy and that’s about it. Why are you so hell-bent on raining on other people’s parades? You’re getting precisely what you deserve. So what’s the beef?

          • Jim H

            The fact that you fail to see the cruelty and injustice of the God you serve just shows how incorrigible you are.
            There is nothing about you worthy of envy. At best you deserve pity. You are a very sad case.

            You could be the poster boy for atheism, because people like you have caused many good people to give up on your coldhearted God who hates his own children. If there is an afterlife, I wouldn’t want to be you when you find out you were wrong and are held answerable for all souls you drove away.

          • Your perspective is the thing that is warped, not God’s divine character.

            It all starts with that which is objectively true. The world has no clue what the objective truth is; it is intentionally deceived and therefore insane. No one can make informed decisions in the face of endless uncertainty, doubt and treachery. Yet that’s how our world actually operates by God’s intentional design.

            Most of the world intentionally chooses the path of least resistance and destroys themselves in the end because they embrace hideous lies that mislead them into making very bad choices which harm themselves and the relationships they have with others, while enjoying no relationship with their creator God. That’s very sad from my perspective who knows differently.

            I was trained to diagnose complex business strategy decisions and lead teams to transform sick companies into healthy ones and I was very good at it for a number of decades. My success was predicated on my having the objective facts that no one else bothered to go looking for. Instead, they lied and shot from the hip and made changes that seldom got the desired results. I found this very foolish and easy to correct for.

            So when I got exposed for the first time to the wisdom of the Bible I hated what its was showing me. It was showing me that I was clueless and a fool and that other men had figured out life that I had not. It was a new experience for me. I was always at the top of any class of mine. Now I was at the bottom and I hated it. So I resolved to figure out what those men wiser than me had figured out. That was 15 years ago. I have discovered that everything I once thought was true were hideous lies. I got very angry about the fact that other people had betrayed me so hideously. It hurt. A lot. Tom make things even worse, no one wanted to hear what I had been led to discover. That baffled me. Why would anyone in their right mind NOT want to know the truth? It seemed so obvious to me why it was so important. Eventually, I figured out that those around me were quite sick. They were mentally ill and quite insane.

            The life of a godly man is not easy. I don’t seek your or anyone else’s envy. Envy is a useless emotion and quite destructive. But righteousness in an unrighteous world is not at all popular or pleasant. It is fraught with opposition and misplaced anger and hatred directed at you. It tests your character and your convictions. Jesus told us that the world would hate us because of His name. He is right. It does. That;’s part of God’s perfect plan.

            You falsely conclude that people like me have caused many good people to give up on God. Believe what you like, but there is no truth to that. 1) God is not cold-hearted, 2) No one is good: not one. We all are as rotten as hell and deserve the hell that is coming to most of us, 3) none of us start out as God’s children. We are all His creation, but NOT His children. Only Christ is His only begotten son. And only those of us born again in God’s Holy Spirit, which He play a in us at a time and in a manner of His choosing become His adopted sons and daughters. To claim otherwise is to distort the facts once again.

            God left His elect a roadmap that reveals Himself to us and reveals the objective truth in the entirety of the Bible, which is a supernatural book, only intelligible to those who are born again in His Holy Spirit. That is THE standard of all objective TRUTH. I refer to it constantly for that very reason. it reveals how life and the world really work. Anything which conflicts with or contradicts the Bible in any way therefore HAS to be a lie according to the logical law of contradiction. I am trained in rigorous scholarship and logic. It’s very simple: you study the standard and evaluate everything against that standard to determine what is the truth and what are lies. The Bible exposes almost everything in our world today to be lies.

            There is an afterlife for all of us. I know this because God’s Word says so. I am not wrong. I am one of the very few who are of the truth and I teach that which is right and objectively TRUE. I cannot drive any souls away even if I wanted to. God is fully in charge of all such things. I fulfill my calling from God and HE is responsible for all the results. That’s what the Bible teaches the wise. All I have to do is diligently seek to know God as He is and speak and teach the truth in sacrificial love for my fellow man, which is all I do. Most will reject what I have to teach and they will perish in their sins. That’s out of my control. This is God’s perfect plan; not mine.

          • Brenda Cressey

            If there is an afterlife I wouldn’t want to be YOU when you find out you were wrong. Us born-again believers have nothing to lose if we’re wrong. Read the Bible and get right with God you never know when your time is up.

          • Jim H

            You best be careful about your presumptions about your own salvation and mine. Presumption is born of pride, not humility.. The first sin in the universe was pride and the first being to sin was Lucifer.
            You also presume I don’t read or know the Bible. I have read it from cover to cover. I have read many parts many times.

            Proverbs 16:18: Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.

            Proverbs 11:2: When pride comes, then comes shame: but with the lowly is wisdom.

            Proverbs 18:12: Before destruction the heart of man is haughty, and before honor is humility.
            You might want to think about what Jesus said about it:

            Matthew 7:21-23: “Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’

          • Brenda Cressey

            I apologize for the presumption of your salvation. Only God himself knows that. Those who believe that God sent his only begotten son to die on the cross for our sins, and believe he rose from the dead three days later, and ask God for forgiveness of our sins, WILL be saved.

          • SpiderWatch

            This one approves.

          • Brenda Cressey

            Actually the early church fathers taught about the rapture and tribulation. Writings go back as early as 130 AD


            Irenaeus (130 A.D. – 202 AD) was a bishop of the church in Lyons, France. He was an eyewitness to the Apostle John (who wrote the Book of Revelation) and a disciple of Polycarp, the first of the Apostle John’s disciples. Irenaeus is most-known for his five-volume treatise, Against Heresies in which he exposed the false religions and cults of his day along with advice for how to share the Gospel with those were a part of them.

            In his writings on Bible prophecy, he acknowledged the phrase “a time, times and dividing of times” in Daniel 7 to signify the 3 ½ year reign of the Antichrist as ruler of the world before the Second Coming of Christ. He also believed in a literal Millennial reign of Christ on earth following the Second Coming and the resurrection of the just.

            On the subject of the Rapture, in Against Heresies 5.29, he wrote:

            “Those nations however, who did not of themselves raise up their eyes unto heaven, nor returned thanks to their Maker, nor wished to behold the light of truth, but who were like blind mice concealed in the depths of ignorance, the word justly reckons “as waste water from a sink, and as the turning-weight of a balance — in fact, as nothing;”(1) so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold. And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.”(2) For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.”

            Irenaeus in this passage describes the church leaving the sinful world just before unprecedented disasters. Note his use of the term “caught up” which is Rapture terminology as that is the meaning of harpazo, the term for “caught up” in the King James Bible describing the Rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4. He then quotes Matthew 24:21 where The Lord Jesus Christ says: “For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” And it is during this time that those who convert to Christianity during the final years will receive the incorruptible crown mentioned by the Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 9:25. In Irenaeus’ belief, the Rapture took place prior to the end times Great Tribulation.

            Shepard 150 AD

            The writer, after escaping a huge terrifying beast with four colors on its head (white, red, black and gold), met a virgin in his vision. “like a bride going forth from a bride-chamber, all in white…I recognized from the former visions that it was the church.” The virgin explained that she escaped destruction from the beast (the Great Tribulation) because of God’s special deliverance. “Thou hast escaped a great tribulation because thou hast believed and at the sight of such a huge beast hast not doubted. Go therefore and declare to the elect of the Lord His mighty deeds and say to them that this beast is a type of the great tribulation which is to come. If ye therefore prepare yourselves and with your whole heart turn to the Lord in repentance, then shall ye be able to escape it, if your heart is pure and blameless.” After explaining to him that “the golden color stands for you who have escaped from this world,” the virgin concluded her messages with, “Now ye know the symbol of the great tribulation to come. But if ye are willing, it shall be nothing.”

            Victorinus 240AD

            Commentary on the Apocalypse 6.14 – “‘And the heaven withdrew as a scroll that is rolled up.’ For the heaven to be rolled away, that is, that the Church shall be taken away. “And the mountain and the islands were moved from their places.” Mountains and islands removed from their places intimate that in the last persecution all men departed from their places; that is, that the good will be removed, seeking to avoid the persecution.”

            Commentary on the Apocalypse 15.1 – “And I saw another great and wonderful sign, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is completed the indignation of God.’ For the wrath of God always strikes the obstinate people with seven plagues, that is, perfectly, as it is said in Leviticus; and these shall be in the last time, when the church shall have gone out of the midst.”

            Cyprian 250 AD

            Epistle 55 – The Antichrist is coming, but above him comes Christ also. The enemy goeth about and rageth, but immediately the Lord follows to avenge our suffering and our wounds. The adversary is enraged and threatens, but there is One who can deliver us from his hands.” It is significant that he did not write about enduring the persecution of the Antichrist. Rather Cyprian promised that Christ “is One who can deliver us from his hands.”

            Cyprian speaking of the imminency of the rapture, he wrote, “Who would not crave to be changed and transformed into the likeness of Christ and to arrive more quickly to the dignity of heavenly glory.” After telling his readers that the coming resurrection was the hope of the Christian, he points out that the rapture should motivate us as we see the last days approaching. Cyprian says that “we who see that terrible things have begun, and know that still more terrible things are imminent, may regard it as the greatest advantage to depart from it as quickly as possible.” Referring to his hope of the approaching rapture, he encouraged his readers as follows: “Do you not give God thanks, do you not congratulate yourself, that by an early departure you are taken away, and delivered from the shipwrecks and disasters that are imminent?” Cyprian concludes his comments on the translation of the saints with these words: “Let us greet the day which assigns each of us to his own home, which snatches us hence, and sets us free from the snares of the world, and restores us to paradise and the kingdom.” (Treatises of Cyprian – 21 to 26?)

            Ephraim the Syrian 373 AD

            On The Last Times 2 – …because all saints and the elect of the Lord are gathered together before the Tribulation which is about to come and be taken to the Lord..

          • Jim H

            I believe my comments on the Rapture were more related to Watchman being one more of a long list of “prophets” who thought they could determine when such things would happen, not the idea of it.
            They must have Matthew 24:36: “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.”, or they know better than Jesus.
            I think my comments were more intended to address his belief in predestination (actually double predestination) and what appeared to me to be his arrogance and lack of concern about those who were predestined, through no fault of their own, to be left behind.

          • Brenda Cressey

            I think I have to agree on watchman being arrogant. He also wont be last on the list of “prophets”. Anyone who sets a date and/or time for the rapture to occur is a liar.

          • Jim H

            That was the point I was trying to make. I read Hal Lindsey’s Late Great Planet Earth thirty to forty years ago and got interested in the subject. I found out people have been predicting the end pretty much since Christianity began. I think many of the earliest Christians expected it to happen in their lifetime.
            Incidentally, I have stopped arguing with Watchman for reasons that I explained in my final posts to him.

          • SpiderWatch

            Again with the mail analogy. It’s hard not to read “other people’s mail” when you can literally view the entire thing in hundreds of various translations across basically any language on the internet or just go buy it a bookseller.

            So yeah, unless you want to go all medieval Catholic on the world, you are just going to have to accept that non-believers are going to read your precious book.

          • John_33

            I addressed what you said, but I don’t think that you understood it. You are looking at all of these religions and denominations and see billions of people who all think that they have the truth. Obviously they cannot all be correct, so which one is true, and how can we possibly know the truth with so many competing religions and denominations? The answer is that this is not an issue. We are not called to sift through every religion. We are called to look for God. If we were left to ourselves, then there would be no way that we could find the truth, but with God directing us, it’s guaranteed that we will receive the truth. Don’t worry about what others think they know. Look for God alone and do what He says.

          • Jim H

            Your comments appear to indicate that you have a transcendent truth from God himself. If so, why are you so vague and obscure in your comments?
            The word “God” means different things to different people. Deists and Pantheists mean something quite different by God than an Abrahamic theist would.
            The Old Testament refers to God as both Elohim and Yahweh and Elohim and Yahweh act quite differently. They seem to be very different from the God Jesus called “Abba”, so much so the Gnostics said they were. Allah doesn’t seem to be the same as any of them.
            It is obvious to me that people have, in fact, been looking for God for a long, long time and keep coming up with different answers.

          • John_33

            People worship other gods in ignorance. Others don’t want to believe the truth because they find sin more attractive than doing the right thing. The Bible says that we have all turned aside and gone our own way, and it’s quite apparent when we look at the world. Jesus said that very few would find the narrow path while the rest will continue to go their own way because they have rejected the truth.

          • Jim H

            I have always wondered about the idea that salvation, whether in the OT or NT was through Jesus’ sacrifice and there was no other way to heaven before that happened, how does one explain:

            The Bible says that “Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven” (2 Kings 2:11), “Enoch was translated that he should not see death” (Hebrews 11:5), and “God took him” (Genesis 5:24), and Moses appeared in the transfiguration with Jesus (Matthew 17:3). How do you reconcile these scriptures that show these three were in heaven before Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross?

          • John_33

            Because Jesus paid for the sins of everyone in the past, present, and future, including for the Old Testament saints when He died on the cross. God applied the sacrifice to their lives even though it had not occurred physically on earth yet. By faith, the Old Testament saints knew that God would provide a way for them to be made clean and forgiven. God blessed that faith that demonstrated that they had received salvation through Jesus’ sacrifice. There’s so much more on this subject in the Old and New Testament. The path to salvation has always been the same since the beginning. If there was a way that anyone could have gone to heaven outside of Jesus’ sacrifice, then He never would have needed to come.

          • Jim H

            That is a very interesting answer. Could you elaborate on a couple of points? All the Old Testament saints knew that God would provide a way for them to be made clean and forgiven and went to heaven before the redemptive act had taken place, right? Doesn’t that means that Jesus could not have freely chosen to go to his death? He had no choice because God must have predetermined it would happen and acted accordingly with the saints.

            Also, if just believing God would provide a way to heaven, why did Jesus, as you pointed out, say that very few would find the narrow path while the rest will continue to go their own way because they have rejected the truth? That seems to conflict with your other comment.
            I look forward to your reply.

          • John_33

            Of course Jesus had a choice. He made that choice before the world was even created. Even though the Trinity is complex, God is still one God. What God wants, Jesus, being His Son, also wants as well. Each Member of the Trinity is united and is present in securing our salvation.

            As for the second point, believing in God provides the way to heaven, but there’s more to it. The devils believe that God is real, and they even tremble, but that doesn’t save them. God requires us to be born again. This is explained in John 1:12-13 where it says, “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” This is where God literally gives us new, spiritual life and a new heart so we will be willing to obey God. The sacrifice is applied to our lives, and we are adopted by God and become one of His children. This is the mark of a believer. Real faith will produce real obedience to God.

          • All you reveal is that every last form of organized religion is, and always has been, demonic. Truth is not determined by the perceiver, but by the one who reveals truth to His elect, while leaving the rest for humanity totally deceived and in the dark. You may not like this answer, but it is the objective truth.

          • Jim H

            Please provide what factual basis you have for that statement, it does not sound at all objective to me.
            Saying it doesn’t make it so.

          • The truth is of no interest to the likes of you. I supply all the evidence anyone of the truth with any integrity will ever need in my book, Making Sense Out of a World Gone Mad: A Roadmap for God’s Elect Living in the Final Days of the End Times. I dare you to read it. I dare you.

            “There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.” Proverbs 14:12

            “Trust in the LORD (YHWH) with all thine heart, and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct they paths.” Proverbs 3:5-6

            “The fear of the LORD (YHWH) is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.” Proverbs 1:7

            You’ve just defied all three of these pieces of wisdom; thus proving you nothing more than a wicked fool.

          • Jim H

            You need some new material, your act is getting stale and many people have presented it much better than you and made a lot of money. Of course they had a bit of charm and civility.

          • The simple truth is not for your entertainment.

            Wicked fools do not warrant charm and civility: merely exposure and rebuke, followed by having nothing further to do with you.

            Many people have lied and distorted the truth and made a lot of money at it. Tim LaHaye and Hal Lindsey come to mind. I am not here to make a lot of money. I am here to do YHWH’s will. And then the end will come.

          • Jim H

            “The simple truth is not for your entertainment.”

            That is good, I certainly wasn’t entertained by you.

            “Wicked fools do not warrant charm and civility: merely exposure and rebuke, followed by having nothing further to do with you.”

            Fine! Quit commenting, I won’t miss you at all.

            “I am here to do YHWH’s will.”

            No you are here to satisfy your own inflated ego.

          • Your cowardly lies will do nothing to save you in the end.

            And just for your inflated ego’s sake, I really am not writing for your benefit. You’re a lost cause. I’m writing for the benefit of the elect to reach and demonstrate to them how to demolish the lies of wicked fools like you who are perishing and don’t even know it.

            YHWH has spoken. You’re toast.

          • Jim H

            Jim H has spoken. You are an rambling presumptuous pseudo- pious idiot.

          • You lie and have no truth in you. As such you are a son of the devil, the father of lies. Anyone listening to you is a wicked fool and will soon be destroyed for it. Your words are without substance and mean nothing.

          • Jim H

            Actually my dad was a simple hard working guy. Never saw a horn or a tail and he was also pretty honest. I loved him a lot. Something a pompous heartless *ss-hat like you likely wouldn’t likely understand.

            You keep listening to me, you wicked fool! That means you will soon be destroyed and I will have done a great to thinking truth seeking people everywhere.

            My words do have both substance and meaning, I realize they are multi-syllable, some of them with as many as FOUR syllables (OMG) and may pose a comprehension problem for you, but I would be happy to explain them.

          • I don’t listen to you. I expose and shred your every mocking and scoffing claim in public for the edification of the elect. You have no clue how I have totally shamed and disgraced you repeatedly. It would be amusing if you weren’t so pathetic.

            You wouldn’t know love or truth if it kicked you in the ass. You’re strongly delusional and soon will be toast for all eternity. Dwell on that one Oh blind one.

          • Jim H

            “You have no clue how I have totally shamed and disgraced you repeatedly.”

            You have no clue—period.

          • Coming from a mentally deranged fool, all the rest of us will give the all the credit it is due: totally worthless.

          • Jim H

            You said I was unworthy of attention days ago, yet you continue to play my game designed to show anyone reading how nasty crude and unworthy of attention, or even curiosity, you are. I have accomplished that and further exchanges with you are a waste of my time. We have sunk lower and lower in your replies, and it ceases to be amusing to antagonize you, and although it takes little effort because everything seems to do that. you are, quite frankly, simply are becoming boring.
            Rather than continue, since you keep telling me I’m toast, I’ll get some jelly from the fridge and tell you to–EAT ME!

          • Go play with yourself you hate-filled scumbag.

          • Jim H

            The is the second time you brought up masturbation and projected your obsession with it on me. You repeatedly tell me how God intentionally made me and most other people to send us to the flames, how there is nothing we can do about it and then you gloat about it. How am I the hate-filled scumbag? You are too deranged to even realize how moronically hypocritical you are. Maybe you suffer from the Dunning-Kruger Effect, because you are merely too stupid to realize how stupid that is.

          • Jim H

            The is the second time you brought up masturbation and projected your obsession with it on me. You repeatedly tell me how God intentionally made me and most other people to send us to the flames and gloat about it. And you call me a hate-filled scumbag. You are too stupid and deranged to even realize how moronically hypocritical you are. You are just a joke.

          • You are a bitter, angry, mean-spirited old man who hates God because God created you as one of His vessels of dishonor to do evil and to be destroyed in the end. Just admit it. Instead, you choose to steal the truth from others by trolling on blog threads like this one in order to promote your moronic and foolish lies. That is hate-filled beyond words and truly despicable. It’s time to own up to your crap.

            No one’s gloating about your predicament from which there is no escape. But no one is affirming you in it either. Truth is like that. But you’d never know that, would you?

          • Jim H

            I am getting bored with you and will likely stop replying to your nonsense. However, If you could actually manage a response where you don’t just repeat your predestination, post tribulation, etc. script. I would like to ask you a question.

            If I decided you were right and bought into your twisted theology, then I would believe that the loving God I hear so me people was a figment of their imagination. The real God only loves those few people he has arbitrarily picked, those who you call the elect. The vast majority of us are solely created to do evil and to eventually burn in Hell. You call us vessels of dishonor.

            You are quite pleased with this arrangement and love to boast to all of us vessels of dishonor about how hopeless and inescapable our situation is.

            If I believed all your nonsense, how would I not be entitled to be quite bitter? In your scenario the elect have done nothing to deserve to be saved and vessels of dishonor did nothing to be damned.

            Your God is capricious and arbitrary. He is an immoral monster unworthy of love or devotion. If anyone deserves to burn it is the followers of such horrible being. His “prophet” deserves the hottest seat.

            I could say all those things without risking anything because I have absolutely nothing to lose and every right to be bitter.
            Here’s a parting thought:

            Matthew 7:21-23Revised Standard Version (RSV)

            Concerning Self-Deception

            21 “Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’

          • I welcome your getting bored and ceasing to reply to what you characterize as “my nonsense.”

            The objective, absolute, universal truth of God’s Word, the Bible, has NOTHING to do with me. I merely believe all of it and obey all all of it to the best of my ability through the power of God’s Holy Spirit working in me. You secretly know this, or you would have already gone away long ago.

            Yes, the lies you hear most people telling about God being pure love and nothing else are pure frauds. To be sure, God is love, but He is equally holy, righteous, just, all-knowing, all-wise, all-seeing, and totally intolerant of all sin. This is where the liars of “God is love and that’s all you gotta know” false religion deceive many and they will pay dearly for it in the end, God’s Word promises us. I am not responsible for the frauds of all forms of organized religion, all of which are, and always have been, demonic liars.

            Now as to your question. You start with the false premise that no man deserves eternal torment in hell. Sadly, you are 100% in error. The objective Biblical truth is that we ALL are born depraved, wicked sinners, separated from a right relationship with God and bound for hell when we die. The Bible teaches this absolute, universal, objective truth in no uncertain terms, but only those of the truth with any integrity will embrace it as the unpleasant truth and very bad news that it is. In short, all mankind is born to lose.

            The wages of sin is death: both temporally and for all eternity thereafter.

            Then God chose to offer a few of us a pardon we did not deserve. God came to earth, testified to the truth in a world which abhors all truth, and then bore the sins of all of the elect for all time upon his shoulders and paid the price (death) we deserved to pay, so that if we submit and surrender our lives and our wills fully to Him in all things, His righteousness might be imputed to us in a legal exchange transaction and be reconciled into a right relationship with God the Father as born again adopted sons or daughters of in Christ Jesus.

            Again, i am merely YHWH’s true messenger. I don’t make the rules. He does. i just relay His messages accurately and faithfully. And the world hates me for it. Because Jesus predicted that all the world would hate His disciples for His name. Surely you can identify with this, because you hate me without justifiable reason. i fully understand it. it’s not pleasant; but I understand it has to be this way.

            So do you have any reason to be angry? Not really. Only with yourself. yet you cannot help yourself any more than I can. I cannot tell a lie. You cannot tell the truth. God made both of us the ways He did for His good pleasure and ultimate glory, not ours. It humbles me. It angers you. I fully get it. If i were in your shoes, I’d be angry, bitter and resentful too. But that in no way gives you any right to abuse the good and the righteous for the free gift and blessings God in His mercy and grace chose to bestow upon us.

            If you ever really were to read my book, you would learn that my life story has been a hideous one with tremendous suffering, cruelty, injustice and abuse that I never deserved. God allows tremendous suffering to occur to some of us of His elect to refine and test and grow our faith in Him and our characters and wisdom. It is very painful. But I am now grateful for it. I would not understand what I now do without those awful trials. i would suffer them again, if it was the only path to true wisdom and knowledge, which it is. I dare say you would not. I bet you would prefer to avoid pain and pursue pleasure as most of the world does. I know that I have no choice. I know that what God wills will happen to me as He wills it and I can either fight it or submit to it. I tried the fighting. I lost. So I’ve learned. Now I submit and things between God and me go much more smoothly today because I have been suitably chastened. I know this to be as sign of His genuine love for and delight in me. All fathers discipline the sons they love. Sometimes I wish God didn’t love me quite so much as He does and as He has proven to me time and time again by bringing me trials an suffering. But as Jesus suffered, so must I.

            I doubt this will be of much help to you, nor will it bring much comfort. but it is the objective truth, whether I want it to be or not. And sometimes I don’t. But I’m not God and I’ve come to terms with that.

          • Jim H

            I am sorry that your life story has been a hideous one with tremendous suffering, cruelty, injustice and abuse that I never deserved.
            That doubtless has much to do with your acceptance of God behaving in ways I find horrific. Doubtless, such a life leaves deep scars and leads to a certain callousness and seeing what I deem as injustices as merely a fact of life.
            I replied to a different comment of yours prior to this, that I felt pity for you because you are truly a sad case. I didn’t realize how “prophetic” would turn out to be.

          • I’m not seeking sympathy or anyone’s pity. I just revealed to you what I did to explain that God is not some indulgent fairy in the sky who enables sin and doesn’t care. That’s what the wicked world wishes to believe, but it just ain’t so and no amount of wishing otherwise is going to change that. Man exists for God’s pleasure; not the other way around.

            The injustices, lies, betrayals and abuses I have been subjected to have refined my character to become more like God’s. I hate sin and lies and I hate being betrayed. It is cruel and it hurts. I feel deep compassion for the many innocent victims of true injustice of all forms. I want an end to it. Thankfully, I now know that that is not a pipe dream. That is a hope God has placed in my heart that He promises to fulfill very soon.

            He has humbled me beyond words to use me as His faithful messenger in the meantime. I am very grateful. Because I know what I deserve that He has chosen to spare me from, through no merit of my own. That doesn’t make me angry and bitter. It makes me love Him and willing to submit my entire life and will to serve Him and His perfect will because I know I can trust Him and He has the power to deliver me from anything. That gives me the freedom to be me and to speak the truth in sacrificial love to my fellow man while almost all the world is in bondage to sin and lies. I am blessed and I know it.

            The simple fact is that life is not fair and often quite hard. Life is a testing ground for the next. It has its joys and its beauties to be sure, but looking at life head-on as it truly is reveals that life is designed to mature and grow some of us by subjecting us to trials, struggles and sometimes intense suffering. If you had studied the lives of the OT prophets as I have, you would know that they too endured hideous trials not unlike mine. It’s what grew them into godly men, fully submitted to God in all things and prepared them for their challenging calls to speak truth into a world that has no interest in the truth. This is not easy or pleasant. It is very hard. But in the end, those who fail to heed my prophetic words of wisdom will perish and have no excuses that they did not know. They knew and rejected God anyway. None of this happens by accident. it is all planned and orchestrated by God perfectly to bring about His perfect plan for the elect. It’s not so perfect for the non-elect. But then again, my life has not been so perfect in this life either.

            Life never was about our comfort. Those who are comfortable never learn, grow or become wise. I have learned and grown much and become wise in the thoughts ands ways of God from my trials in a world that is foolish, quite ignorant and intensely selfish and cruel. It’s not meant to last. God’s Word tells us this. I believe Him. You do not. One of us is dead wrong. Hint: it’s not me. God never lies, changes or fails.

          • Jim H

            “I’m not seeking sympathy or anyone’s pity.”

            You have mine non-the-less. It has become hard for me to get angry at you for the things you say.
            You say that: “The injustices, lies, betrayals and abuses I have been subjected to have refined my character to become more like God’s.”
            I see the reverse, you have made yourself a God who makes sense to a view of the world shaped by the cruelty and unfairness you have experienced.

          • You just don’t get it Jim. God is all-powerful, all-knowing, all-seeing, infinite, brilliant, wise, just, holy, loving and trustworthy who control all things behind the scenes. I neither claim to be God nor do I want to be.

            These terms that define god’s true nature (not your ugly caricature of them) only make sense for the elect. For the non-elect, none of it will ever make any sense. God predicts this at Daniel 12:10. I fully get it that you don’t accept the Bible as what it claims to be. Yet it has proven itself to be just that repeatedly to me in my life and down through the ages to millions of others like me. Nothing else is trustworthy and true. All else are hideous lies I want no part of. They only destroy people and relationships. In the end, that’s all that really matters in life. The rest is largely meaningless distractions of very little lasting importance.

            All of life is unfair and much of it is quite cruel. But this is not all there is. That gives me hope. You are much to be pitied. You have no hope. Your only the hope is that I am in error. Sadly for you, I am not. God says so. His word can be trusted. Very few other else’s can. I am one of the rare few and only because I am wholly submitted and surrendered to God’s will in everything.

          • God only chooses to reveal Himself to His elect, whom He chose since before the world began. It has always been about HIM and never about US.

          • It is impossible to prove the non-existence of something. But you just keep on trying.

            You’re at enmity with God because that is how God created you. Those of us of the truth, God’s elect, fully grasp this. You never will.

            The beauty and intricacy of God’s creations prove His existence. The truth of God’s existence is written on all men’s hearts. You are without excuse. Soon you will bear the full consequences for your foolishness. You are not half as smart as you believe yourself to be. Stiff-necked to be sure; smart? Not in the least.

          • Croco Dile

            You “fully grasp” what ?
            There are NO Christians who can agree even on their OWN doctrine. So how can anyone of you claim to grasp anything ??!!

            And by the way, I was not created by any god. My mother gave birth to me.
            And your mother to you !

          • You prove my prior point. Truth is unintelligible to non-elect wicked fools like you.

            The reason few Christians can agree on anything is because 99% of them are self-deceived or knowing frauds just as you are. All forms of organized religion are, and always have been, demonic. it hardly takes a rocket scientist to figure this out. Just a love for the truth with genuine integrity. I have it. You don’t.

            And by the way, if God had not willed for your parents to conceive you in your mother’s womb, you wouldn’t exist. YHWH is the first cause of all things. No exceptions.

            You just aren’t half as clever as you seem to think you are.

          • Croco Dile

            Who cares how the name of this jewish god is pronounced.
            It’s fraud anyway….

          • You’ve yet to prove one damn thing. Lies just don’t cut it anymore, junior. it’s over. You lost. Truth matters. You’ll see soon enough, croc-o-$hit.

          • Croco Dile

            Don’t worry for me, watchman 🙂
            Enjoy your delusion 🙂

          • Thus saith the strongly deluded wicked fool.

            Are you catching this folks? Do you see how totally depraved our culture has become? These are all compelling signs and evidence that we are at the end of God’s prophetic Biblical timeline.

          • Croco Dile

            Right, as was said hundreds of times before….. by others.
            In each generation delusional people did claim the same thing.
            The only purpose of those idiotic claims is to frighten the gullible into submission.
            Your religion is FRAUD.

          • LadyFreeBird<God'sNotDead


          • Joe Soap

            There you go again. “God wants” How do you know?

        • Joe Soap

          Who made you Gods mouthpiece? How do you know what God wants anymore than anyone else does?

          • wandakate

            SIMPLE…He told us in His word, the Holy Bible it is the word of GOD. It’s our instruction book, the past, present and future instruction book with His commands that were forever.

        • wandakate

          What he desires is a “relationship” with His own people, the ones who believe in Him, love and trust Him, and hopefully are obedient to Him. We are His children and He is the FATHER, and b/c we are family, we communicate with Him on a daily basis…That’s pleasing to Him.

      • FoJC_Forever

        God created mankind for fellowship, not to have beings He could rule over, though He certainly does Rule. Our instruction to pray is one of continuing conversation with our Creator and Savior. Like any healthy relationship, communication is central. Prayer is the act of communing with God. Only those who know and love Jesus (the) Christ have access to an active relationship with God, simply because only through Jesus is Sin forgiven and fellowship restored.

        If we ask God something which is against His Will, we will not receive said thing from Him. If we persist, after knowing it is not according to His Word and Will (which we can know by always being led by and submitted the Holy Spirit), there is a chance a demon will seek to grant our request in order to deceive us and lead us away from God. Christians must remain vigilant, because our Enemy is always looking for a way to knock us down and lead us astray. So, the continued prayer, communication with God, keeps us abreast as to what God’s Will is concerning what He wants for us.

        Yes, God already knows all things. He knows the Beginning to the End. This is something incomprehensible to us, simply because we lack the faculties to understand eternal (no beginning or end) intelligence. Even so, God’s goal is, literally, to reconstruct us so that we may abide directly with Him forever, in the New Heavens and Earth. His foreknowledge of all things doesn’t inhibit His ability to interact with us. We are but children to Him, compared to Him, and must be taught how and who we are intended to be for Eternity. This teaching and training includes us interacting (prayer, communication) with Him.

        • Paul Hiett

          For Christians, that’s great. But time and time again no one seems to be able to explain to me why, in the US, those who have chosen a different set of beliefs must adhere to your rules. Why should we accept a Christian set of rules when you won’t accept others?

          • MisterPine

            “Why should we accept your atheist rules” knee-jerk response in 5…4…3…2…

          • Paul Hiett

            The funny thing, we don’t care what other people do in the privacy of their homes, or their churches. Why Christians are so worried about what other people are doing in their homes is beyond me.

          • MisterPine

            Just arrogance. Christianity so often brings with it a heightened sense of superiority in terms of its morals and rules. We should follow them because they figure we ALL need to live by them.

          • No you don’t need to live by them and you won’t. Anyone of the truth knows this. Go ahead and sin like hell and enjoy the eternal consequences thereof. We all know what they are. Knock yourself out trying to disprove God. It’s a fool’s errand… so it appears you’re well-equipped for the job.

          • MisterPine

            I’m not interested in disproving God. I have no idea if there is a god or not and I never will. And neither will you. As for sin, that’s your ridiculous concept, not mine. If you want to enslave yourself to ridiculous man-made constructs like that, knock yourself out. But the second you try to use your faith to hate and oppress others, THAT is when I will get in your face, I hope we are clear on that.

          • Harry

            Don’t bother yourself with responses to WOW. He is a certifiable nut and believes the sun rotates around the earth. Anyone who disagrees with him is “the non elect” and is destined for hell.

          • MisterPine

            Thanks for the advice. I said pretty much all I have to say to him anyway. I know very well what people like him are all about.

          • The truth of the existence of YHWH is all around you, fool. The notion that you got here by some form of cosmic accident is ludicrous and flies in the face of the intricacies and beauty of nature. No, you are without excuse, for the truth of God is written on all men’s hearts.

            The second you try to use your faith in the father of lies, the devil, to hate and oppress the rest of mankind in order to deceive and mislead them to harm themselves and stay on the road to hell you are on is the day that I will get in YOUR face. That day is NOW. I hope we are clear on that, you goddamned despicable liar and psychopath.

          • MisterPine

            I’m not interested in your boogeyman Satan or your fundie zealot BS, OK? Take it to the street corners with your megaphone and leave me out of it.

          • Nobody invited you to the party in the first place. Get lost wicked fool.

            It’s over. You lost. Deal with it. There is no place to hide from the fierce and terrible wrath of an angry and just God who is poised to destroy you and all like you who so richly deserve what is soon coming to you.

            YHWH has spoken.

          • MisterPine

            It’s cute watching you talk on behalf of your monstrous, jealous and insane God. You want so much to be Him, and you’re not. What a loving Christian you are – all the words in your message tell the story better than anything else. “Fierce,” “terrible,” “wrath,” “angry,” “destroy” – who do you think you’re kidding? This is one big paranoid revenge fantasy to you, it has NOTHING to do with God.

          • How desperate you wicked fools are to deny the obvious truth! You merely prove the Bible to be everything it claims to be: the flawless, infallible and inspired words of YHWH to His elect.

            You endlessly distort the simple truth. I have no desire to be like God. I am merely His faithful and fully submitted messenger performing His sovereign will. You are one of His vessels of dishonor fitted unto wrath and destruction (the non-elect, a spiritual goat). You fail to grasp this, but you are doing His sovereign will too by being deceitful, wicked and foolish for a season and then He plans to destroy you.

            God’s love letter to His elect is very clear that He creates two classes of people: 1) the elect who are of the truth and sacrificially love their fellow man enough to risk telling him that he is heading to hell unless he confesses and repents of his many sins and submits his life fully to Jesus in all things, and 2) the non-elect who are of the lie and have no genuine love in their hearts for anyone; they are inherently selfish and hate God with an unbridled passion because God created you that way. This truth is written on all men’s hearts, so you are without excuse.

            God’s word is crystal clear:

            “And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword (meaning the Word of God of the Bible), that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.” Revelation 19:15

            “The LORD (YHWH) hath made all things for himself; yes, even the wicked for the day of evil.” Proverbs 16:4

            “The integrity of the upright shall guide them; but the perverseness of transgressors shall destroy them.” Proverbs 11:3

            “For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, either indeed can be.”
            Romans 8:6-7

            None of this is any news to you or to anyone else for that matter. Love is not telling evil and wicked fools what their itching ears want to hear. Genuine love is telling those with the capacity to hear the truth that they are heading to hell and separated from a right relationship with God as we all start out that way.

            You can’t hear any of this. In fact, you are not my primary audience in this post. God’s elect are. For only they can benefit from this wisdom and objective truth. The rest of you lying and wicked fools will perish in your sins as God predestined you to perish. You claim you are fully in control of your life choices? Prove me wrong and choose God rather than death. I dare you. You can’t do it. God created you wicked to destroy you to bring ultimate glory to Him in the end. That end is now just around the corner.

            To know God is to love Him. To love Him is to OBEY Him in all things (John 14:15). You’re trapped in your own disobedience to God. There is no place to run and nowhere to hide. Your sins have found you out. It’s time to take responsibility for your OWN actions and stop blaming God for what you have brought upon yourself through your stiff-necked rebellion against a holy, just, all-powerful, all-knowing, all-seeing and loving God who abhors the wicked. You knew God’s rules. Yet you rebelliously defied them. Soon it will be time to pay the piper for that. it’s perfectly fair, just and right. So what’s your beef?

            YHWH has spoken.

          • If you wish to engage in sodomy in private knock yourself out. But you lie. When demon-possessed sodomites seek to normalize what is sick, perverted, unhealthy, dangerous behavior, you’ve stepped way over the line of healthy societal boundaries and are seeking to corrupt, defile and degrade what was once a moral society. This is your real agenda and we all know it. The goal is to destroy Christianity and the TRUTH.

            Ain’t gonna happen. Deal with it.

          • FoJC_Forever

            They’re not “our rules”. Only through Jesus (the) Christ can you be saved from your Sin. You are subject to God, just like every other human being, and rejecting His Salvation leaves you in your Sin, for which you will be, and already are, Judged by God. The offer is freedom from that which binds you to Eternal Damnation. This offer comes only through Jesus (the) Christ.

            Call upon Jesus, and He will save you from your Sin.

          • Paul Hiett

            Well yes, they are your rules. You made the choice to follow Christianity. Ergo, those are the rules you have chosen to follow. I, and many, many others, have chosen different paths (and not just atheism). Since religion is just a choice, why should those who have simply made a different choice in their religious beliefs be subject to the rules of your choice?

          • FoJC_Forever

            You’re missing the point, troll, as always. Here’s some more food for you. You want attention, simply because you’re lonely and lost. I pity you.

            You are subject to the God you reject. You will be Judged, as you already are, as one in Sin. If you leave your body and appear before God without having received Salvation through Jesus (the) Christ, then you will be cast into the place you are seeking.

          • Paul Hiett

            I find it hilariously ironic that you call me an adolescent the other day, and you the adult, when you start off a response with an insult. I doubt you’ll see your own hypocrisy.

            Regardless, what you just claimed is nothing more than your opinion based solely on your choice to follow the rules of Christianity. I see no valid reason that your opinion should trump mine, or that of anyone else. Mind you, that goes both ways as well.

          • The reason you cannot see is because God created you spiritually blind so you would never see the obvious truth right in front of you. You are totally brain-washed and lacking in any critical reasoning skills. No one can reason with you; you are unteachable; as all wicked fools are.

          • It has nothing to do with CHOICE. You are free to choose to be stupid. It has everything to do with that which has been proven repeatedly to be objective truth and thus wise.

            “Fear of the LORD (YHWH) is the beginning of knowledge; but fools despise wisdom and instruction.” Proverbs 1:7

            Anyone foolish enough to rely on their own intuition and judgment of that which is true in a world ruled by endless lies and deliberate deception will end up destroying themselves. That much is 100% certain. But knock yourself out proving wisdom wrong.

          • Only if you are of the elect, as evidenced by the Holy Spirit living in you which God placed there at a time and in a manner of His choosing and initiative and not ours, can anyone genuinely do such a thing. For the heart of carnal men is at enmity with God.

          • FoJC_Forever

            We hear the Word of God concerning Salvation through Jesus (the) Christ, we receive the Word of God concerning Salvation through Jesus (the) Christ, then we are saved from our Sin. This process has a beginning and is a daily process, until Christ is perfectly formed in us (the day our carnal body dies).

          • Be very careful. No where do you mention the work of the Holy Spirit or believing God and Jesus or the reality that this process only happens with the elect.

            We are NOT saved by receiving the Word. We are saved through faith (trust) in God and Yahushua alone.

            YHWH has spoken.

          • FoJC_Forever

            Yes, we are. Jesus (the) Christ is the Word of God. If you receive the Word, then you receive Jesus. You can’t receive the Word unless you hear it, and Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

          • What you fail to teach is that true faith is evidenced by a love for the truth and a sacrificial love for the long-term best interests of your fellow man over you own immediate wants and comforts. You manifest neither of those revealing traits. Thus, you are merely a self-deceived liar heading for hell.

            The standard for being saved is revealed in Romans 10:9 which you play fast and loose with:

            “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus (Yahushua), and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”

            To confess openly that Jesus is Lord means that you submit your entire life and will to Jesus as Lord over your entire life. Those who are of the truth hear His voice, He told Pilate in John 18:37. You teach half-truths here which have the same effect as lies. Thus you are in no way fully submitted to Yahushua in all things. You’re a fraud and a liar. To believe in your heart means far more than intellectual assent. It means that you live your entire life with integrity based on that belief. You clearly don’t do that. You play fast and loose with the truth to deceive yourself and others. There is no love in that.

            Of course, you knew all this already, didn’t you demon? This wasn’t for your benefit. This was for the benefit of those of the let who might read your false teachings and mistakenly place their trust in it and be deceived by it.

            YHWH has spoken yet again. He says you’re toast.

          • FoJC_Forever

            You do not speak for God.

          • Actually I do. You’re dead wrong yet again.

          • FoJC_Forever

            People like you love the “elect” classification, because it makes you feel like you’re in a special club all to yourselves. I’m aware of the Scriptures that cover the subject of the elect, and what you are propagating is not a correct understanding of it.

          • You are deceived and thus of the non-elect, as Matthew 24:24 clearly reveals. You don’t know what you’re talking about; or perhaps you do, but your agenda is to deceive others into believing that puny man can thwart the sovereign will of almighty God. Such a notion ifs totally preposterous, quite ludicrous and totally contradicts the full teachings of the Word of God, the Bible. As such, it is a doctrine of devils that saves no one, but deceives many – the non-elect who God designed to be deceived.

            Romans 9:21-23, Ephesians 1:4-5 and 2:1-11 are crystal clear that God predestines all mankind to become either vessels of honor fitted to His grace and mercy (the elect) or vessels of dishonor fitted unto His destruction and wrath (the non-elect). Play fast and loose with the truth of all of God’s Word all you like and perish in your fraud and lies. That is your predestined destiny. You’ll see soon enough.

            YHWH has spoken. He tells me to tell you that you’re toast.

          • FoJC_Forever

            You are a fraud. Just another religious troll stalking Christians online.

          • Thus says the stinking lying fraud and son of the father of lies, the devil.

            Those who are evil, this one being a prime example, accuse their enemies of the very crimes they are most guilty of. It usually is a pretty effective ploy to throw the hounds off the scent. But not this time. Because now we have a mere 509 days to go until the great tribulation is over and so the truth is finally emerging out into the open at last.

            Don’t take my word for it. Read the Bible in its entirety and prove me wrong. For those of the truth, the elect, you may find my book, Making Sense Out of a World Gone Mad: A Roadmap for God’s Elect Living in the Final Days of the End Times, I teach what is really going on, what’s coming soon and why and offer suggestions on how the elect ought to living during the remaining 509 days head of us in the great tribulation foretold in Daniel 12 and Matthew 24 for thousands of years.

            Let the wise understand. This wicked fool never will. Daniel 12:10 tells us this. God never lies, changes or fails.

          • FoJC_Forever

            You’re promoting your book, how typical of the false ones. Do you have a name, or did you legally change it to “Watchman on the Wall”?

          • Your totally desperate and once again DEAD WRONG.

            I am indeed informing others of the availability of my book which God has inspired. It makes no sense to go to such effort to bless the elect and not inform them of its availability. Unless of course, you’re the devil and seeking to suppress and silence the truth and keep all human beings on the road to hell we are all born into… Perhaps that’s your desire; it’s not God’s and it’s not mine.

            You are intellectually lazy, quite dishonest and lacking in all intellectual rigor. I have NEVER predicted a day or an hour of Christ’s second coming. Nor will I ever do so. I reveal the meaning of end times prophecies which now reveal when the great tribulation will end: October 2, 2016. anyone of the truth can read my book and understand how the Bible now reveals this date to those of us of the truth (the elect). You’re but another scoffer fulfilling the prophecy of 2 Peter 3:3-4 & 7 right before the end. And I have thus proven that I am everything I claim to be: God’s true prophet and watchman on the wall in these final days of the end times. Live with it. it’s the objective, absolute, undeniable truth, as much as you wish it were otherwise.

            You don’t know Jesus because you are not of the truth. You are of the lie, and thus a son of the father of lies, the devil. it’s over Demon. You lost. Deal with it.

            You’re a total fraud suffering from the strong delusion God Himself has sent upon you in fulfillment of the prophecy of 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 with hair-splitting accuracy.

            Is it getting a bit toasty where you are at yet? It will be getting that way in roughly 18 months. Not much longer until the real fireworks begin now!! How cool is THAT?!?

          • FoJC_Forever

            Oh, I see. You’re being used by the Devil to be an extremest so as to skew the Word of God for the unwitting. Fortunately, those who are seeking Truth will pass you by on their way to Jesus.

          • The deceitful blind bat claims he sees. Does anyone believe him? Does anyone care? No one does.

          • FoJC_Forever

            Your judgement is meaningless and does not come for the Holy Spirit. You blaspheme and present yourself as something you are not. You are doing what you are accusing.

            Judgement is coming.

          • Judgment is indeed coming: upon you and the rest of the lying, filthy scum just like you who have misled and deceived so many for so long.

            No one is interested in your demonic outbursts any longer. You’re desperate. You wouldn’t have a clue what the Holy Spirit’s influence looked like if it kicked you in the ass. You “jewish” scribes and Pharisees accused Yahushua of blasphemy, so it is no surprise that you are now accusing His true prophet of the very same things. He predicted this 2,000 years ago and now His words are being fulfilled yet again. Imagine that.

          • FoJC_Forever

            You aren’t a prophet.

          • Actually I am everything I claim to be. You’re dead wrong once again.

            YHWH has spoken.

          • FoJC_Forever

            You aren’t YHWH. You are the only one “speaking” here.

          • I speak on YHWH’s behalf, as all true prophets have done though the centuries. If you knew YHWH, Yahushua and the Bible as I do, you would know that.

            Instead, you’re merely a poseur and a con man who secretly serves the father of lies, the devil. Your sins have found you out.

          • FoJC_Forever

            No matter how many times to try the “prophetic judgement” on me, it means nothing. You have no power over me, no authority in God by the power of His Holy Spirit.

            You are the one posing as a prophet in order to sell your book and feel important.

          • Tell it to YHWH. No one cares what you think. Your entire life is a fraud. All the evidence for it is right here for all the world to see.

          • FoJC_Forever

            I speak to the LORD daily, and He disagrees with you.

          • That “lord” you speak to is a demon spirit. Nice try.

            Of course all demon spirits disagree with me: they are of the lie and YHWH, Yahushua and all the elect, of whom I am one and you are not, are of the truth. I’ve already shredded you multiple times in public as the proven liar that you are. You sure you want to come back for yet another beating? I’m more than up to it. I dare you!

          • FoJC_Forever

            You are adept at projecting fear and intimidation, for certain. It’s no wonder you’re working in consort with unbelievers and others who are antichrist.

            Your provocation is proof that you’re nothing more than an online spiritual bully trying to use fear to sell your book. You have, what, 18 months to sell as many as you can? Then you’ll disappear into the crowd to enjoy your cash. If Amazon is smart, they’ll review your online activity and discontinue the sale of your book on their web site. You are a dangerous person who is using religion to profit.

            No “beating” has taken place. It’s all in your head.

          • I am not in it for the money or the limelight Oh Wicked One.

            There are very few alive on the planet today who number among the true elect. God has sent me to blow the trumpet and sound the alarm of the coming calamity upon the wicked, to teach what’s coming and explain why and to urge the very few who still can (the elect) to confess and repent of their many sins while there is still time remaining to do so. 506 days from today, that time will be over forever.

            My intended audience for my book is therefore quite small. I’m not expecting to make a great deal of money off of its sales. But when the hammer of God falls upon YOU, the wicked, all will be without excuse.

            My you’re desperate to try to discredit the objective truths of God’s Word that I teach!! It’s proof that we are in the final days of the great tribulation and that it’s almost over. Praise YHWH for that!

          • FoJC_Forever

            You just want to be special, in your own little club. You have your wish. You are in your own little club.

            You are an aberration. You are a crazed person seeking to be recognized as a prophet by a small group of people who have become desperate and dissatisfied with the LORD and His Word.

          • You have no idea what I want. You’re desperate and grasping at straws that aren’t there.

            I’m not seeking anyone’s approval or affirmation other than that of YHWH, the God of the Bible, who you endlessly malign and distort to suit your own demonic agenda of deceit and fraud. The fact that you engage in such deceit as a false teacher means that you are already accursed, as Galatians 1:7-8 clearly teaches the elect: those who are of the truth.

            You’ll see in precisely 18 months. I guarantee it.

          • FoJC_Forever

            You are just mad because I didn’t submit to your “correction” when you first responded to a comment I made. Rather, I rebuked you. Your type, wanna-be prophets and leaders, get angry when people won’t submit to your ‘correction’. You aren’t any different from the ones who hated Jesus and wanted to kill Him.

            Your judgements are meaningless and simply make you feel superior in your own mind.

            Judgement is coming.

          • How totally dead wrong you are Oh fraudulent one!

            Only fools fail to heed the correction of those of true wisdom, the objective truth and of God’s Word in its entirety. You have no clue what rebuke is. Lying and claiming falsehoods are not rebuke. They are deflections of the truth and nothing more. Those ploys and con jobs are just about exhausted forever.

            I don’t give a rip whether you heed my correction or not. God determines all outcomes. YOU are the one like the scribes and Pharisees who wish to play fast and loose with the truth and draw attention to yourselves. Of course you will accuse the righteous and the upright of the very crimes you are most guilty of. That is the way of all those who are pure evil.

            My judgments of are of God. You dismiss them as meaningless now. Tell it to YHWH in 18 months.

            Judgment is indeed coming. 18 months from now you will see that there is no place to run and no place to hide from the coming wrath and fury of an angry, holy, just and truthful YHWH directed at your fraud and endless deceit. Justice is coming too. And you’re guilty as sin.

          • FoJC_Forever

            You’re simply a raging madman who thinks he’s special. You correct, preach, and wrote a book, then don’t say you care if someone pays any attention to it. You are contradicting your own self-proclaimed purpose, but that’s no surprise.

            Your continued use of the Hebrew word for LORD merely shows you think it sets you apart unto God, but it does not. you’re “set apart”, but it’s merely in your own self-exalting, false reality.

          • Pretty desperate and strongly delusional, false teaching wicked fool.

            Just for the record, Adonai is the Hebrew word for “Lord.” YHWH is God’s real NAME; not a title of divinity. Not that the objective truth is of any interest to the likes of you. You just can’t get anything right can you turd-ball?

            And this has nothing to do with exalting myself. I use the moniker “watchman on the wall,” because I must increase so that YHWH and Yahushua might increase. Such a notion is totally foreign to wicked fools like you.

            Get lost. I’m done with you.

          • FoJC_Forever

            You don’t know God’s “real name”. Those of use who know and love Jesus (the) Christ will know it when the Work of Salvation is completed in us and we stand in His Presence forever. The names listed in the Scriptures are for our learning of His nature and relationship with us, mankind, as well as all of Creation.

            I truly hope “done with you” means you won’t be replying to my comments anymore. That would be wonderful.

          • Bob

            You have to have equity therefore INTEGRITY in your reasonings to find the answer, and your self importance gets in the way from finding the truth which you claim you eek but do not. You’re just a LIAR, even to thyself perhaps but non the less a double minded fool.

            INSTEAD, why not UNDERSTAND why Christianity CAN NOT accept any substiitutes – doubt you will, but there lies the answer.

          • Because all others beliefs conflict with and contradict the objective truth. That makes them lies. Why anyone would knowingly and willingly condone lies reveals the power of the spirit realm to deceive the majority of humans. You’re one of the many who are deceived.

            Yes, Virginia, the world truly has gone insane and the lunatics are running the insane asylum.

        • Croco Dile

          Jews will disagree with you.
          Many will even laugh at you.

          Of all the things we know of in the universe, intelligence in particular is one of the most complex and mysterious phenomena observed. To suppose that we could “explain” the universe by introducing a universe-spanning intelligence is completely backwards from the way science normally operates.

          • FoJC_Forever

            But, I agree with God, so I’m in the center of Truth. However, not all Jews will disagree with me, and the laughter of Unbelievers is really inconsequential.

            Science isn’t Truth. God isn’t “introduced” into the universe to explain it, He created it.

          • Paul Hiett

            “But, I agree with God…”

            Let me correct you on that. ” But, I agree with my opinion…”

          • FoJC_Forever

            You have to be right to correct me, but you’re wrong, and I’m already right, because I agree with God.

          • Paul Hiett

            Until you, or anyone,can prove the existence of your choice of a deity…it’ll always just be your opinion.

          • You have yet to prove that he’s wrong. He’s not. You are. And that’s a fact.

          • Your opinion that is grounded in something other than the truth is of no consequence to anyone but yourself. You’re living in your own private world of illusion: your strongly deluded mind. it’s known as insanity: disconnected from and in denial of objective reality.

          • Harry

            Weren’t you in fact admitted to a psych ward, went through electro shock therapy and referred to yourself as the devil?

          • Been reading my book, have you Harry? Keep reading. I can’t wait until you get to Chapter 11 in which I expose the fraud of all forms of organized religion, especially the demonic fraud of the Calvary Chapel movement of which you are an integral part. It will drive you and your numerous demons totally insane.

            It’s over. You lost. Deal with it.

          • retona4

            Send me a link to your copy, I need a new humor book.

          • Croco Dile

            You “agree with god” ??!!

            How so ?

            Are you calling him by phone or does he call you for a chat ?

          • Mockery is the sure-fire sign of a wicked fool. Thanks, but we already deduced that from your prior posts. Proof was not necessary.

          • All “jews” are pathological liars and demon-possessed psychopaths who serve the father of lies, the devil. Their views mean nothing to the wise.

            As for your false god of science, the evidence in our world points to most scientists being totally corrupted and co-opted by the world and the “jews,” who are desperate to destroy all of humanity and flip off YHWH in the process. Just a little honest research on your part would reveal the fraud of science when it comes to Copernican heliocentrism, Darwinian macro-evolution, sending man to the moon and the farce of global warming… or is it climate change today? The hard evidence reveals that you have placed your trust in a total fraud. But never let objective truth get in the way of your fables and fantasies…

          • Croco Dile

            If all jews are pathological liars and psychopaths (an interesting diagnosis) then why are you worshiping the Jewish god YAHWEH ?

          • The “jewish” god is Lucifer, a.k.a. Satan:

            “We Jews do not like to admit it, but our God is Lucifer… We are his chosen people…” — Harold Rosenthal from “The Hidden Tyranny” (1976)

            Those posing as Jews today are total impostors. Here’s what Jesus had to reveal about them:

            “…those who claim to be Jews, and are not, are the synagogue of Satan.” Revelation 2:9 and 3:9

            In other words, the “jews” of today are the Antichrist of these final days of the end times who are guilty of perpetrating the false flag attack of 9/11 upon America, aided by traitors t the highest levels of the “jewish’-owned media and federal government.

            The one true God’s name is Yahuwah (YHWH). Yahweh is a fraudulent pronunciation of His true Hebrew name.

            You’re not as clever as you seem to think you are. You are way out of your league with me.

          • FoJC_Forever

            Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 isn’t talking about all Jewish people. It is referring to a particular sect of that day. You’re misapplying parts the Book of Revelation to an entire race of people, some of which embrace and follow Jesus (the) Christ.

            You are a fraud and certainly no “watchman”. Your use of Hebrew is only to impress those unfamiliar with it. There is no special consideration given by the Holy Spirit to those who use Hebrew words. All you do is twist the Scriptures for your self gratification and to mislead people into a false sense of spirituality.

          • Hog wash! >95% of the 14 million impostors posing as Jews alive on the planet today are Turko-Mongolian Khazars whose ancestors CONVERTED from pagan phallic worship (something the “jews” still seem obsessed with) to Talmudic Judaism of the Pharisees in 740 A.D. for reasons of political expediency.

            These same liars and frauds claim to be the true descendants of the 12 Hebrew tribes, Israelites, Judahites and Semites. As CONVERTS they cannot possibly be any of those things!! Anyone arguing otherwise is a dishonest liar and son of the father of lies, the devil. Is this what you are claiming? Inquiring minds want to know.

            A “jew” is someone who secretly follows the hideous and vile teachings of the demonic Babylonian Talmud taught by demon-possessed rabbis. Their claim to follow the teachings of the Old Testament are yet another hideous LIE. While most “jews” hail from a common ancestry, they are NOT a race! They are demonic and Satanic cult of death and anyone claiming to be both a “jew” and a follower of Christ is a lying, deceitful fraud. No man of the truth with any integrity would serve both the devil and Christ at the same time.

            “We Jews do not like to admit it, but our God is Lucifer… We are his chosen people…” — Harold Rosenthal from “The Hidden Tyranny” (1976)

            Connecting the dots here, it hardly takes a rocket scientist to deduce that the “jews” of today are the Antichrist of these end times who perpetrated the false flag attack of 9/11 upon America and the attack on the USS Liberty in 1967, both of which were covered up and silenced by traitors at the highest levels of our “jewish”-owned media and federal government in the service of Satan himself.

            As for who is the fraud here, I have just shredding you in public for your deceitful fraud. You have taken on the mark of the beast by shielding the antichrist “jews” from scrutiny they so richly deserve. You are a proven liar and thus a wicked fool. Anyone heeding your words will be destroyed.

            I have no interest in impressing anyone. I am here as God’s true messenger to teach the ugly truth to a world which abhors the truth, as do you. You are the one twisting Scriptures for your own demonic purposes, and for that you will soon be destroyed.

            YHWH has spoken and He seethes in rage and fury at you personally for your deceit.

            Let the wise understand. This wicked fool never will. Daniel 12:10 tells us this. God never lies, changes or fails.

            Beware of false teachers who are wolves posing as sheep!! They are EVERYWHERE!

          • FoJC_Forever

            Yes, false teachers are abundant, and you’re one of them.

          • Not a chance in the world! You have been proven the liar. That makes you a son of Satan, the father of lies and all liars.

            It’s time to stop being the coward and shooting the messenger and start dealing with the hard facts, chum. You make YHWH want to puke. He detests you, as He does all the wicked and the vile.

          • FoJC_Forever

            You’re a troll, and your words decry a heart devoid of God’s Word. You simply spew high-minded, condescending, hate-filled accusations which have no foundation in Truth.

          • Empty vapid words from a despicable liar… Who gives a damn what you say or think? You’re always dead wrong!

            That’s because…

            “A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself.” Proverbs 18:2

            “The heart of man is deceitful and desperately wicked; who can know it?” Jeremiah 17:9

            Your heart is rotten to its core. There is no sign of the Spirit of truth in you in the least: nor any genuine sacrificial love. You are a fraud from top to bottom. Your life is a pathetic waste. Soon God will destroy you for your despicable acts of deceit that lead others astray.

          • Brenda Cressey

            It was because of the Jewish leaders that Jesus was crucified. The jewish people do not believe that God sent his only begotten son(Jesus) to die for our sins, hence the crucifixion. This belief is necessary in order to obtain salvation.

          • Croco Dile

            Jesus is a fictitious character invented by corrupt priests for the benefit of the Roman Empire.
            All you write is 1950 years old fairy tale.

          • Brenda Cressey

            prove it

          • Croco Dile

            This was proven by scholars long time ago. You just need to read a few books. Here are the best :

            Old Testament :

            Critically Examined
            John William COLENSO
            Bishop of Natal – London 1862

            New Testament :

            IS IT GOD’S WORD ?
            by Joseph Wheless New York 1926

            A Documented Record of the Foundations of the Christian Religion
            by Joseph Wheless 1930

            About the Jesus fairy tale :

            1230 A.D (1904 translation.)

            Caesar’s Messiah
            The Roman conspiracy to invent Jesus
            by Joseph Atwill

            All of these books you will find as a free PDF on the Internet.

            Of course there are many websites on this subject, and I gave you a few links to look at, but this website is holding it back…. Later you may get them, but I know you won’t like it !

          • Brenda Cressey

            All I can say is…..HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!
            Sorry buddy that doesn’t prove anything.

          • Croco Dile

            The Bible itself is proof that it’s all a gigantic lie, Brenda.

            Joseph Wheless in his book “IS IT GOD’S WORD ?” :

            Like Saul of Tarsus before he changed his name – but not his nature – the maker of the ensuing search of the Scriptures, born down in the Bible Belt, was bred “after the straightest sect of our religion,” a Southern Methodist. Nurtured by earnestly Christian parents, I was heir to their faith and joint heir to salvation with them. Through youth and into maturer years, like Paul, “so worshipped I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets” of ancient Jewry, with the heavy increment for faith of the Wesleyan brand of Protestant Christianity superimposed.

            Being so born and taught, so I naturally believed. For religious belief is all but exclusively a matter of birth and early teaching, of environment. A man takes and holds, though often most indifferently, the religion, or brand of belief, of his fathers, of his family. Born a pagan, a Jew, a Buddhist, a Mohammedan, a Mormon, that he remains, except one time in many thousands, through life; though, if taken in infancy, he will as naturally fall heir to and believe the most contrary faith: witness the famous Janizaries, captive Christian children trained in the Moslem faith, and Islam’s most fanatic soldiers. If born into a Christian family, Catholic or Protestant, or of one of the many sects of either, he usually remains, at least nominally, Catholic or Protestant, as he was born and taught. Children believe anything they are taught; Santa Claus, fairies, goblins, ghosts, and witches are as real, as veritably true, to a child as Jesus the Christ to a cleric – often much more so. It is a maxim of the Master of the Christian faith: “Except ye … become as little children, ye cannot enter the kingdom of heaven: … for of such is the kingdom” (Matt. xviii. 3; xix, 14). Hence the reason of the churchly maxim: Disce primum quod credendum est – “Learn first of all what is to be believed.”
            From my earliest years the Methodist Sunday school and Church were as a sort of home extension of religious atmosphere and teaching; my earliest initiation was into the “infant class” of that institution of sacred learning. There my infantile mind was fed and fired with the venerable verities of our first parents and the seductive wiles of the talking snake of Eden, of Balaam’s loquacious jackass, the anthropophagous whale of Jonah, the heroic adventures of David with Goliath and with Bathsheba, of noble Daniel, unscathed in the lions’ den and in the fiery furnace, of Peter’s walking on the water, and the devils sent into the pigs, with many other like articles of holy faith necessary to salvation.
            Fascinated with these ancient gems of inspiration, and deeply imbued with the sense of Christian duty to “seek first the kingdom of God,” whereupon everything else needful would be added liberally, daily I grew in biblical wisdom as I grew in stature and in strength. And, too, I took my religion seriously, and seriously strove to live as a Christian should, comforted by the saving Methodist doctrine of the divine right of backsliding; if sometimes I fell, I fell upon my knees, got up, and pursued resolutely my pilgrimage through this vale of tears. My Bible was my constant companion, guide, and friend.
            From a sense of Christian duty, as well as for its practical aid in linguistic studies, I read the Bible often, and in several modern languages, and picked a little at the ancient ones. Later, when writing this book, I learned sufficient Hebrew for the understanding and honest rendition of the sacred texts. In such frequent readings of the Bible, and in more languages than one, I could not but be struck with important differences of meaning given in different versions to the same verse or text; memory, too, would go back to the same story told quite differently in other of the sacred texts; I would search out the parallel passage and find it at right angles or criss-cross with the one before me. Such adventures roused dangerous trains of thought, which I devoutly sought to conjure out of mind………

            Read this book with your Bible at hand. You don’t need to read anything else to understand. Just for fun and for a good laugh, Brenda.

          • Brenda Cressey

            I’m all set. I will stick with God’s Word thank you.

          • Croco Dile

            Yes, most people are just too weak to break the programming.
            No surprise to me.

          • On what basis do you say this and how can you prove that? I believe every word from the Bible as truth and it is my guiding light. Christ is the only way you can find that will lead you to the world that is beyond death. Death in this world is inevitable, but surely you will not die and will want to find your creator and if you are with Christ you will find your creator.

          • Croco Dile

            Reading the Bible won’t get you anything closer to the truth.

            I already gave titels of some good books to Brenda.
            Read, if you want to understand.
            Brenda is refusing to learn what reality is. What about you ?

        • You’re doing a good job of explaining the truth. However, you’re directing it to an individual who displays no genuine interest in the truth. He is of the non-elect. Your gifts would be better invested in evangelizing and edifying the elect: those who exhibit truthful and loving characters to begin with. If a person is revealing he is closed to the truth, no amount of persuasion, evidence, simple logic and trustworthy authority will make any difference.

          • FoJC_Forever

            When I respond to someone, I’m also writing so others will read and know the Truth.

          • I understand. I often pursue the same strategy, but I try to save the full explanation for those who exhibit a sincere interest in the Truth. They’re more likely to find it there.

    • amostpolitedebate

      We don’t make up our own morality. We just reject yours because you’d ask us to do real and lasting harm to our friends and family members for no reason other than they fell in love with another consenting adult you don’t approve of.

      Also we think your deep-seated fear of sex in general is super weird.

      • FoJC_Forever

        Homosexuality has been declared a sin by God. I have never asked anyone to do “real and lasting harm” to those who are filled with lust for another of the same gender. It’s never been about my, nor any other persons, approval, but the issue of homosexual “marriage” has already been settled by God as being against His Will.

        I don’t have a fear of sex. Your statement is just more inferential nonsense by those who embrace immorality.

        • amostpolitedebate

          No again I don’t embrace immorality. I simply reject *your* particular version of it. Please don’t be hyperbolic.

          That aside, how can you say that denying two people in love official recognition (as well as all the legal protections and rights that provides) is anything but cruel? Not to mention the fact I find the “traditional marriage” argument… questionable. It’s always felt like an excuse by Christians to keep the state from recognizing homosexuals as real people deserving of equality and respect. I get the feeling that if the fight weren’t about “traditional marriage” it would instead be about “traditional workplaces” or something.

          • FoJC_Forever

            It’s not “my version” of morality, it’s God’s Word, and His “version” of morality is the only true morality.

          • amostpolitedebate

            First off, I cant help but notice that you didn’t dispute my point about “traditional marriage” just being an empty excuse to keep gay people from being treated equally in the eyes of society.

            Second, which “one true” version of God are you talking about. There’s the Catholic one, the Protestant one, the Mormon one, the Amish one. And for that matter which “one true” holy book are we reading from? There’s so many “one true” Christian faiths out there to choose from I get a bit confused sometimes.

  • uzza

    I wonder if Huckabee could watch a western from the fifties and be able to figure out who the good guys and bad guys are”. On one side you have people fighting to preserve their ancestral homeland against foreign invaders who want them to convert or die, and …ermmm. . . the other side . . .

    • Jean Adams

      The good guys wore light hats and the bad guys black ones.

      • uzza

        or, the good guys wore white skins . . .

  • I like Mike Huckabee. He’s a decent, honest Christian man. He would be a “substantially above-average” President. He’s a champion of conservative values and morals… but that alone is not enough to be an excellent President. I don’t think he understands the true nature of the economic problems in our nation, or how to fix them. I think he would end up just following a typical “Republican” approach to the economy, rather than following a revolutionary Libertarian approach to radically act and turn things around (like Ron Paul wanted to do). Also… if you have ever watched his Mike Huckabee Television Show… well… he is just not very “Presidential”. He’s “folksy”. He’s “Uncle Mike”… that nice old guy that lives down the road from you, that you like to talk to at the Sunday afternoon picnic. He would probably be the best President we’ve had since Ronald Reagan (who had a similar style and character to Huckabee)… but I think we need MORE than that… we need someone bolder and more serious about radical economic policy changes at this point in time.

    • Paul Hiett

      I think one of the big issues with Republicans are A) their approach to tax breaks for the rich, and B) their propensity to keep cannabis illegal to continue support for big pharm and the prison industry.

      Sadly, both Dems and Repubs are just full of the rich cats who really don’t care what happens to the bulk of America, the middle class.

  • Bobby Mae

    I love when evangelicals put all their hope in Huckabee when there’s no way he’ll win. Makes our job a lot easier. ^_^

    • Paul Hiett

      At this point, barring some cataclysmic meltdown, I think Hillary wins this easily.

  • Richard

    Mike Huckabee is correct. The moral decline is obvious. He would be a good President.

    Humans can accept Christ and live godly. Or, they can reject him and live whichever way they choose. God is allowing those free will choices until Christ returns. Then all things will be set right.

    The sad part is that when Christ returns, it will be too late for those who reject him. The consequences of rejecting him and the consequences of sin come into force.

    Christians need to persevere until Christ returns. After that, it will be paradise beyond our wildest expectations. This earthly walk is as bad as it will ever be during our entire existence.

    On the other hand, non believers should live it up as much as they can now. After Christ returns, their destiny is separation from all things good…the opposite of paradise. For them, this earthy walk is as good as it will ever get.

    Choose wisely.

  • UmustBKiddinMe

    Oh great. After he gets elected as President of our Constitutional Republic, he can turn it into a Christian Theocracy and pass laws telling everyone what morals they will have and what morals they will live by.

    What could be more American than that?????

    • WorldGoneCrazy

      “After he gets elected as President of our Constitutional Republic, he can turn it into a Christian Theocracy and pass laws telling everyone what morals they will have and what morals they will live by.”

      Are you saying it would not be moral for him to do so? Isn’t that self-refuting?

      • UmustBKiddinMe

        I think it is immoral to impose religious beliefs on others.

        It what way would that be “self-refuting”?

        • WorldGoneCrazy

          Because you are imposing you view of morality on us. You are doing what you believe is immoral.

          • UmustBKiddinMe

            How so? Are you not free to hold to whatever moral views you care to? Are you not free to make choices to live your life according to your beliefs about morality?

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            I am less free right now than you would be if Huckabee were elected president. Were you not free to hold your worldview (a-theism) under W?

          • UmustBKiddinMe

            So you aren’t able to state how I am imposing my view of morality on you. Got it. Thanks.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            So you aren’t able to state how Huckabee will “turn it into a Christian Theocracy and pass laws telling everyone what morals they will have and what morals they will live by.” Got it. Thanks.

            And here are 300 ways in which you are imposing your “morality” on others (just take the space out):

            http://barbwire .com/2014/07/07/300-examples-read-understand-meant-term-homofascism/

          • Jim H

            I think the odds of Huckabee getting elected are slim, and even if he did, he would need to change the constitution if he wanted to turn the country into a Christian theocracy.

            I don’t see how, in this country, anyone can actually impose their morality on anyone. As I have said elsewhere, morality is personal. If I don’t believe in homosexuality, no one can (legally) force me to have sex with another guy.

            I do not get homosexuality, bi-sexuality, trans-gender or any of that stuff. In fact, it all turns me off (except for maybe two really gorgeous lesbians–my bad), but I don’t think its any of my business.

            As far as the spiritual consequences, if there are any, they are between them, their consciences and their God.

            I don’t think the government should be in the business of marriage anyway. The legal implications of what we currently call marriage can be easily accommodated without the religious implications of marriage.
            If people want to get “married”, they should find a priest, minister, or preacher who is willing to “sacrementalise” the union.
            The Catholic Church has recognized the difference between the sacrament of marriage and merely a legal marriage.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “he would need to change the constitution if he wanted to turn the country into a Christian theocracy.”

            Or, he could just ignore the Constitution, like the current POTUS. 🙂

            “I don’t see how, in this country, anyone can actually impose their morality on anyone.”

            False. Morality is legislated each and every day in this country – even in the tax codes. The question is WHOSE morality gets legislated.

            “As I have said elsewhere, morality is personal.”

            Well, that is an excellent argument for rape, murder, slavery, etc. If I PERSONALLY believe it is OK to own black people, I guess it is OK in such a view, right?

            “As far as the spiritual consequences, if there are any, they are between them, their consciences and their God.”

            But, if there are, and we have decent evidence for it, then would it not be unloving to warn others about them? If you saw a person about to walk off of a cliff, would you really not get involved in the situation?

            “I don’t think the government should be in the business of marriage anyway.”

            It’s an interesting point, and it might be valid, especially given the current overreach of the government. But, I think that one interest that the government might have in the institution of marriage is to encourage the continuity of a stable society in which children and women are protected and men are (somewhat) tamed. In theory (and in practice before no-fault divorce), the government’s interest in marriage paid off nicely, especially given how much less government had to do – welfare, crime, social spending, etc. None of these benefits accrue from gay “marriage.”

          • Jim H

            Morality is not legislated each and every day in this country. Morality, in the sense I used it is personal. Individuals have moral values. When enough individuals have the same values, you could refer them as collective. The collective moral values of the majority (in theory) are embedded in, and imposed by, what gets legislated.

            However, that does not mean morality is legislated. The fact that something is legal doesn’t make it (by definition) moral, anymore than the fact that something is illegal (by definition) makes it immoral. It just means the majority at the times the law was passed felt it was.

            I don’t see that as an excellent argument for rape, murder, slavery, etc. If you think it is OK to own black people, that is a person moral value, that at one time was also a collective moral value, which is why we had laws which supported slavery. Fortunately, enough individuals “evolved” morally to recognize that was wrong to eventually cause that to be a collective moral value and the laws changed.

            I’m surprised that you say my argument is an excellent argument for rape, murder, slavery. Aren’t you the one who argued the morality of such activities when they were committed by the Israelites?

          • UmustBKiddinMe

            “So you aren’t able to state how Huckabee will “turn it into a Christian Theocracy and pass laws telling everyone what morals they will have and what morals they will live by.”

            You didn’t ask me that question.

            “And here are 300 ways in which you are imposing your “morality” on others (just take the space out):”

            In none of those examples was anyone required to changed their views on what is moral and what is not. So, no, those are not examples of morality being imposed upon others.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            UmustBKiddinMe, UmustBKiddinMe! (I always wanted to do that. :-))

            So, what you are saying is that you do NOT want SCOTUS to impose your morality (wrt the re-definition of marriage) on me and other Christians, is that correct? And, you were also against them doing so in 1973 in Roe, right?

            “In none of those examples was anyone required to changed their views on what is moral and what is not.”

            So, by that way of thinking, the Nazis did NOT impose their view of morality on the Jews, because the Jews were not required to change their views on what is moral and what is not? (And they did not – all the way to the gas chambers.) Your definition of “imposing morality” is a negative tautology – it can never be achieved! By your very own argument, if Huckabee is elected and does turn the nation into a Christian theocracy, he would NOT be imposing his morality on you, because you are free to retain your views on what is moral!

            Thank you! You just proved that your position IS self-refuting! You complain about a possibility that cannot exist under your own definition! That is where absurdism leads you.

          • UmustBKiddinMe

            “So, what you are saying is that you do NOT want SCOTUS to impose your morality”

            I have no desire to impose my morality on anyone. And I certainly don’t have the ability to do so through the SCOTUS. Nor does allowing two citizens of the same gender to enter into civil marriage require anyone to change their views on what is moral and what is not, nor did the ruling in Roe v Wade require anyone to change their views on what is moral and what is not, as evidenced by the ongoing debate regarding abortion.

            “So, by that way of thinking, the Nazis did NOT impose their view of morality on the Jews, because the Jews were not required to change their views on what is moral and what is not?”

            Godwin’s Law. Yes, they were imposing their morality on Jews, because they were arresting them and killing them. To the best of my knowledge, the legalization of same-gender marriage will not be put into place by sending people to the gas chamber. Am I mistaken?

            “if Huckabee is elected and does turn the nation into a Christian theocracy, he would NOT be imposing his morality on you, because you are free to retain your views on what is moral!”

            If, in doing so, he restricted my freedoms based upon his views of what is moral and what is not, then, yes, he would be imposing his morality on me.

            You fail to see the fundamental difference. ALLOWING something does require that people who don’t agree with it to engage in it. For instance, divorce. Divorce being legal doesn’t mean that anyone has to believe it is moral. NOT ALLOWING something, on the other hand, does impose on others as it limits their freedom based upon the moral views of those who put the law in place.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “Godwin’s Law.”

            WorldGoneCrazy’s Law: the first one to invoke Godwin’s Law has lost the intellectual debate. 🙂

            “Yes, they were imposing their morality on Jews, because they were arresting them and killing them.”

            That does not impose their morality on them – according to your definition, the Jews were perfectly free to not change their views on what was moral and what was not. And they didn’t change their views – all the way to the gas chambers.

            “To the best of my knowledge, the legalization of same-gender marriage will not be put into place by sending people to the gas chamber. Am I mistaken?”

            Canada leads the way:

            “In Canada, it is considered discriminatory to say that marriage is between a man and a woman or that every child should know and be raised by his or her biological married parents. It is not just politically incorrect in Canada to say so; you can be saddled with tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees, fined, and forced to take sensitivity training.

            Anyone who is offended by something you have said or written can make a complaint to the Human Rights Commissions and Tribunals. In Canada, these organizations police speech, penalizing citizens for any expression deemed in opposition to particular sexual behaviors or protected groups identified under “sexual orientation.” It takes only one complaint against a person to be brought before the tribunal, costing the defendant tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees. The commissions have the power to enter private residences and remove all items pertinent to their investigations, checking for hate speech.

            The plaintiff making the complaint has his legal fees completely paid for by the government. Not so the defendant. Even if the defendant is found innocent, he cannot recover his legal costs. If he is found guilty, he must pay fines to the person(s) who brought forth the complaint.

            If your beliefs, values, and political opinions are different from the state’s, you risk losing your professional license, job, or business, and even your children. Look no further than the Lev Tahor Sect, an Orthodox Jewish sect. Many members, who had been involved in a bitter custody battle with child protection services, began leaving Chatham, Ontario, for Guatemala in March 2014, to escape prosecution for their religious faith, which conflicted with the Province’s guidelines for religious education. Of the two hundred sect members, only half a dozen families remain in Chatham… An example of legally curtailed speech regarding homosexuality in Canada involves the case of Bill Whatcott, who was arrested for hate speech in April 2014 after distributing pamphlets that were critical of homosexuality.”

            We have already seen this begin in Amerika with the Gaystapo. Here are 300 examples (just take the spaces out before the dots): http://barbwire .com/2014/07/07/300-examples-read-understand-meant-term-homofascism/

            If that is not imposing one’s morality on others, I do not know what is. But, according to your definition “In none of those examples was anyone required to changed their views on what is moral and what is not,” nothing would qualify, since even a crucified person is not required to change his views. (And obviously didn’t if he went through with the crucifixion.)

            It’s really quite a deranged worldview you have when the only form of bullying you could possibly accept is holding the traditional view of marriage.

          • Basset_Hound

            I heard they can’t even play the Dire Straits song Money for Nothing in Canada.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Haha – good one, Basset_Hound!

          • Basset_Hound

            Long story, but I got a 2013 Elantra for Moms Day.

          • Griffonn

            Grats! Sounds like you scored some loot! Happy Mother’s Day.

          • Basset_Hound

            C’mon guys. It’s just a Hyundai. One grade above their Econo-Box.

          • Griffonn

            Yeah but it’s LOOOOOOOT!

          • Basset_Hound

            The loot would have come in when someone would try to rip up the Odyssey steering column to find the electrical glitch. My husband, who was a mechanic in the Army said it would be difficult at best, and probably impossible.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            Dang – Happy Mother’s Day! Can I come live in your guest quarters?!? 🙂

          • UmustBKiddinMe

            “That does not impose their morality on them”

            While the Jews were not forced to change their views on what is moral and what is not, arresting and slaughtering them does impose upon them. Or do you believe they went willingly?

            The Canadian Constitution does not provide the same protections as the American Constitution. Apples and oranges.

            You have posted that link before. It is no more valid this time than it was the last time.

            I think people should be free to hold to whatever view they care to regarding marriage. It is not bullying to hold to a particular view of marriage.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “If, in doing so, he restricted my freedoms based upon his views of what is moral and what is not, then, yes, he would be imposing his morality on me.”

            Do you not see that the HRC’s have imposed their morality on Baronnelle Stutzman by restricting her freedom to decline to participate in gay “weddings”? Really?!?

          • UmustBKiddinMe

            There has not been the right to turn away any customer a business owner chooses based solely upon religious belief since the passage of the Civil Rights Act. If you believe that the Civil Rights Act is bad law, you are certainly free to work to get it overturned.

            Since Ms. Stutzman is not forced to open a business and is not forced to offer certain products, morality cannot be imposed upon her.

          • Jim H

            Are you saying that arguing that it if it is immoral to impose beliefs on others constitutes imposing a belief on them therefore is itself immoral?

            I think you like to play word games, and like to develop smoke and mirrors “logical” arguments, rather than actually discuss things in an honest meaningful way.

            If we look at morality as a personal belief system, you have a right to have your own and I have a right to have my own.

            I think UmustBKiddinMe is just saying that it is wrong to try to violate those individual rights.

            Rather, we should respect your rights to your personal beliefs, as long as you keep them personal and, in return, respect, and don’t violate, anyone else’s.

            As Jefferson put it, if “it neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg” it doesn’t matter to me and shouldn’t matter to you either.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            False, Jim. I am saying that you and UmustBKiddinMe desire SCOTUS to impose YOUR morality (wrt a re-definition of “marriage”) on me just as much as I desire them not to. And, as the Gaystapo has proven, they will resort to death threats, intimidation, vandalism, and anything else they can think of to support it. Because such a morally bankrupt worldview uses the ends to justify the means, just as we have seen on the issue of abortion.

            As for my “smoke and mirror logical arguments,” the fact that you are ignorant of sophomore-level propositional logic does not make a strong case for the “rationality” of your feelings-based arguments.

          • Jim H

            I don’t support the government defining marriage. I would like to see it get out of the “marriage” business altogether and only endorse a legal civil union where two people merge their assets, have (or adopt) children together, etc. When those unions fail, just as marriages do, there will be legal standards to follow regarding division of assets, custody and care of children etc.

            Since people see marriage as a moral issue and there morality is based on their religious views, the government should be neutral on such issues. Marriage shouldn’t be legal matter, but a spiritual one. If a church decides it is proper to “marry” two people it is that church’s business not the government’s.

            “Because such a morally bankrupt worldview uses the ends to justify the means, just as we have seen on the issue of abortion.”

            Actually women who share your worldview, and identify as Christians, have the vast majority of abortions. Doesn’t indicate your world view has much of an effect on reducing abortions even among your own ranks.

            “As for my “smoke and mirror logical arguments,” the fact that you are ignorant of sophomore-level propositional logic does not make a strong case for the “rationality” of your feelings-based arguments.”

            How is the following not a feeling based argument:

            “the Gaystapo has proven, they will resort to death threats, intimidation, vandalism, and anything else they can think of to support it. Because such a morally bankrupt worldview uses the ends to justify the means, just as we have seen on the issue of abortion.”
            Sounds like the kettle calling the pot black.

            The fact that I think a line of argument is intentionally obscure doesn’t mean I don’t understand it. It means I think you use in to intentionally skirt simple practical, or straight forward question.

            I’m a fan of Occam and his razor, you apparently are not.

          • Joe Soap

            I live in the UK. We have same sex marriage and guess what we also have opposite sex marriage. The world hasn’t ended. Nobodies morals have changed one way or the other. I doubt if anyone even bats an eye at same sex marriage.

            Worry about your own life and leave others to live theirs. You’ll find it’s a lot less stressful.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            “Worry about your own life and leave others to live theirs.”

            Self-refuting. If you get a say, so do I. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. There must be a British expression for this. 🙂

            Here are 300 reasons that the gay “marriage” movement is NOT about “live and let live” but more KKK than MLK (just take the space out before the dot):

            http://barbwire .com/2014/07/07/300-examples-read-understand-meant-term-homofascism/

          • Jim H

            You really do like to use “self refuting”.

            But I don’t see how that applies to:

            “Worry about your own life and leave others to live theirs.”

            A number of kinds of statements have been described as “self-refuting:”. It appears you are saying the first clause refutes the second, and vice versa.

            I don’t see where it says anyone gets a say in your personal life.

            I would paraphrase it as: You should be able to live your life anyway you want as long as it harms no one else and I should be able to live my life anyway I want as long as I harm no one else.

            I don’t think the first clause in any way refutes the second.

            I will point out my interpretation to Joe Soap to see if my paraphrase accurately represented what he said.

            Either way, I would appreciate your comments on what I said.

            I think the British expression that might apply is: “Bugger off”.
            I’m joking of course.

          • Jim H

            I took the liberty to reply to WorldGoneCrazy about the self refuting nature of comment.

            I hope I characterized what you intended correctly.

        • Laurence Charles Ringo

          Take a deep breath and dial it back,”UmustBKiddinMe”.Two things here:(1),The United States Constitution is still the document that protects our rights,and it’s HIGHLY unlikely ANY president will be allowed to undermine it,as long as the United States exists. (2),along similar lines,you and those of your ilk should lift your heads up from your keyboards,get out of the online world into the world that STILL exists(i.e.,the REAL WORLD),and realize that all Christians don’t march in lock-step to whatever would-be political”messiah”that presents him/herself to us.Understand this:the language that Huckabee and those of his ilk uses has practically guaranteed that they will NEVER be elected President of the United States,and frankly,I for one certainly hope not.When the “Rev.”Pat Robertson ran for the Office of the Presidency some years,his campaign went nowhere.Ask yourself why? I believe that the American voters are smart enough NOT to elect an overly religious President,so cool your jets,UmustBKiddinMe;all will be well.—PEACE IN CHRIST,from a Thinking Christian.

  • MisterPine

    I find this man’s morals to be repugnant. He speaks as though he is only concerned with likeminded Christians, and has complete disregard for anyone who isn’t.

  • amostpolitedebate

    Large monied interests have completely bought the political process making any positive change all but impossible. Naturally in response to this Mike Hickabee decides that where America really went wrong is abortion and gay marriage.

    It wasn’t our constant worship of money, crippling income inequality, the destruction of most campaign finance laws, the constant efforts to screw workers by undermining their pay and shipping their jobs overseas, institutionalized racism, or the way the financial industry has made itself above the law.

    No the REAL core of what’s wrong with America is abortion and boys kissing each other.

    Think about that.

  • Yes, and America will continue to lose her way morally if Huckabee is elected President. Because in becoming President he (like all the rest) will have to swear to uphold the Biblically seditious Constitution that’s responsible for America today teetering on the precipice of moral depravity and destruction.

    “…3. Every problem America faces today can be traced back to the fact that the framers failed to expressly establish a government upon Yahweh’s immutable morality as codified in His commandments, statutes, and judgments. (Would infanticide and sodomy be tolerated, let alone financed by the government, if Yahweh’s perfect law and altogether righteous judgments were the law of the land? Would Islam be a looming threat to our peace and security if the First Amendment had been replaced with the First Commandment? Would Americans be in nearly as much debt if usury had been outlawed as a form of theft? Would crime be as rampant if “cruel and unusual punishment” had not been outlawed and criminals were instead punished with Yahweh’s altogether righteous judgments? Would we be on the fiscal cliff if we were taxed with a flat increase tax rather than a graduated income tax?)….”

    For more, see our Featured Blog Article “5 Reasons the Constitution is Our
    Cutting-Edge Issue.” Click on my name, then our website. This article will be found at the top of our home page.

    Then find out how much you REALLY know about the Constitution as compared to the Bible. Take our 10-question Constitution Survey in the right-hand sidebar and
    receive a complimentary copy of a book that EXAMINES the Constitution by the Bible.

    • UmustBKiddinMe

      So you would prefer a Christian Theocracy to our current Constitutional Republic, correct?

      • When one understands that idolatry is not so much about statues as it is statutes, it becomes apparent that all governments are theocratic, serving either the true God or some false god, demonstrated by what laws they keep and consider the supreme law of the land.

        “…There is no escaping theocracy. A government’s laws reflect its morality, and the source of that morality (or, more often than not, immorality) is its god. It is never a question of theocracy or no theocracy, but whose theocracy. The American people, by way of their elected officials, are the source of the Constitutional Republic’s laws. Therefore, the Constitutional Republic’s god is WE THE PEOPLE.

        “People recoil at the idea of a theocracy’s morality being forced upon them, but because all governments are theocracies, someone’s morality is always being enforced. This is an inevitability of government. The question is which god, theocracy, laws, and morality will we choose to live under?…”

        For more, see online Chapter 3 “The Preamble: WE THE PEOPLE vs. YAHWEH” of “Bible Law vs. the United States Constitution: The Christian Perspective.” Click on my name, then our website. Go to our Online Books page, click on the top entry, and scroll down to Chapter 3.

        • UmustBKiddinMe

          I’ll ask again, and perhaps you’ll answer this time: So you would prefer a Christian Theocracy to our current Constitutional Republic, correct?

          “Therefore, the Constitutional Republic’s god is WE THE PEOPLE.”

          So you believe that in giving the power of legislation to the people and their elected representatives, we now worship the people as our god, is that correct?

          “The question is which god, theocracy, laws, and morality will we choose to live under?…””

          if you live in the US, you have chosen to live under our Constitution. If you don’t like that, you are free to move, or to work to have our constitution changed so that it is based on Bible. Let me know how that goes.

          A Theocracy is: “a system of government in which priests rule in the name of God or a god.” While you are certainly free to attempt to twist that into being equivalent to our form of government, it is not true.

  • Gregory Alan of Johnson

    According to Matthew 4:8-10 and John 18:33-37, nobody claiming Yeshua as Savior/Lord should be involved with secular authority. If Yeshua didn’t contract, neither should we.

  • Joe Soap

    Another presidential election and another bunch of GOP rightwing crackpots spouting christian claptrap are lining up to make fools of themselves.

    What makes it worse is that they are all total liars. They spout this extremist rubbish to garner the votes of the base yet the moment one of them finally gets the candidacy they suddenly become moderate. They know perfectly well that this rubbish won’t fly in the actual election. They could try being honest for a change but they have become so used to lying honesty is probably beyond them.

  • BarkingDawg

    So now the Huckster is claiming that his shilling phony medical cures for diabetes proves that he is qualified to be president.

    What a con-job.

  • Of course we’ve lost our way morally. Any idiot ought to be able to see this. After all, we are already 60% of the way through the 1,290 day great tribulation that ends on October 2, 2016. Read Matthew 24:29-31, followed by Revelation 19:7-9 for what comes next during the 45 days thereafter.

    All pastors, politicians and radio talk show hosts are liars, actors and frauds. Mike Huckabee is (or has been) all three. So I guess we have a three-fer in Huckabee.

    Votes don’t matter. They never have. They are never counted. It’s all part of an elaborate hoax, theater, and charade designed to deceive the naive and gullible American people into believing that America’s political processes and system have any integrity to them. They have NONE. Human beings are very easy to deceive.

    The American Presidential campaign theater is especially designed to deceive Americans into taking our eye off the ball of what’s really going on. In late 2016, right about the time that the general election fraud is taking place, the four celestial events foretold in Matthew 24:29 will be occurring and right after that, Yahushua will come in the clouds to gather the elect, first the dead, and then the living few, to be with Him forever. The global elites will declare someone (probably Hilda the Beast) the winner of the fraudulent Presidential election making a parody of the entire corrupt and wicked fraud. It won’t matter. By then, the wrath of God will be upon the wicked of this world and every alleged Presidential contender, Mike Huckabee included, will be among them.

    Yes Virginia, the world truly has gone mad. That’s been God’s plan all along.