T.D. Jakes Comes Out for ‘Gay Rights’ and ‘LGBT Churches,’ Says Position is ‘Evolving’

JakesMegachurch leader and author T.D. Jakes says that homosexuals should attend congregations that affirm their lifestyle and that politics do not need to reflect biblical ethics, adding that his position on homosexuality is both “evolved and evolving.”

During an interview with the Huffington Post on Monday, Jakes was asked by a viewer if he believes that homosexuals and the black church can co-exist.

“Absolutely… I think it is going to be diverse from church to church. Every church has a different opinion on the issue and every gay person is different,” he replied. “And I think that to speak that the church—the black church, the white church or any kind of church you wanna call it—are all the same, is totally not true.”

Jakes said that he thinks homosexuals should find congregations that affirm their lifestyle.

“LGBT’s of different types and sorts have to find a place of worship that reflects what your views are and what you believe like anyone else,” he outlined.

“The church should have the right to have its own convictions and values; if you don’t like those convictions and values [and] you totally disagree with it, don’t try to change my house, move into your own … and find somebody who gets what you get about faith,” Jakes added.

He said that the issue of homosexuality is “complex.”

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“Paul spends a lot of time wrestling back and forth, trying to understand should a woman wear a head covering, should you cut your hair,” Jakes stated. “I mean, they grappled back then and we’re grappling now because we’re humans and we are flawed and we’re not God.”

“Once you understand you’re not God, you leave yourself an ‘out’ clause to grow,” he said.

When asked if his position on homosexuality has “evolved,” Jakes agreed that it has.

“Evolved and evolving,” he replied. “I think that where I am is to better understand we, the church, bought into the myth that this is a Christian nation.”

Earlier this year, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that states must legalize same-sex “marriage,” igniting a battle between the Church and State over the issue. In his comments on Monday, Jakes advocated for the separation of Church and State, which would allow for “all types of people” to have whatever rights they desire despite biblical prohibitions. He said that politics don’t need to be based on Christianity.

“[O]nce you get past [thinking America is a Christian nation] … Once you begin to understand that democracy—that a republic actually—is designed to be an overarching system to protect our unique nuances, then we no longer look for public policy to reflect biblical ethics,” Jakes explained.

“If we can divide—or what you would call separation of Church and State—then we can dwell together more effectively because atheists, agnostics, Jews, all types of people, Muslims, pay into the government. The government then cannot reflect one particular view over another just because we’re the dominant group of religious people in [this] country because those numbers are changing every day,” he asserted. “We need a neutralized government that protects our right to disagree with one another and agree with one another.”

Jakes had visited the Huffington Post to discuss his new book on “destiny.” The interview focused on motivational subject matter in following one’s dreams and passions as opposed to the eternal destiny of the soul.


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  • ChaplainPeter

    You shall know them by their fruit. This is not the fruit ( character ) of the HOLY SPIRIT.

  • BarkingDawg

    “These are not the fruits you are looking for. You can go about your business, move along.”

  • Sounds like yet another Laodicea-esque televangelist who’s more invested in selling his latest book series than he is in preaching the Word of God.

    • Ruthe Tate

      Amen

    • Bill Charlton

      I believe (if he is being accurately quoted) that he is obviously guilty of apostasy by rejecting the authority of God’s Word in identifying homosexuality as the horrible sin that it is, but what is your basis for accusing him of greed?

      • GeneralDrake

        Apostasy? Really? Interesting that some people were literally preaching the gospel out of wrong motives and even as an attempt to do evil toward Paul yet he rejoiced that the gospel was still being preached and their case. He didn’t call them apostates he was thankful for the good work that they were still doing. TD Jakes is an awesome man of God and a wise man I’m not sure what he’s really trying to say or accomplish here. I respect his right to have an opinion different than mine. I think he’s trying to take a more realistic approach to the problem but I did not see him say homosexuality is not sin. Everyone seems to think their own opinion is so darn important.

        • Marty Haas

          When a preacher begins to call good evil and evil good, he is no longer preaching the gospel. Paul didn’t rejoice at those who were preaching a “perverted gospel” as he called it (Galatians 1). The gospel is the good news that God wants to forgive us our sins based upon the sacrifice of Christ in our place. But He’s not offering us a get-out-of-hell-free card. He’s offering to restore us to His family and kingdom. That requires repentance, and TD Jakes is now saying that there’s nothing here to repent of. Jesus died to pay the price for the sin of homosexual behavior. To now proclaim that it is not a sin is to disrespect the sacrifice of Christ.

          • jorgelm123

            Amen!

          • Antoinette Brass

            Absolutely right. It’s a mockery of the shed blood. How dare he?
            This man is followed by millions. This is nothing less than a betrayal to most of tthose following and a slap in the face of God.
            He should tread lightly. Very lightly.

          • Char Fox

            Many people being led astray by these types of teachings are those who WANT to be led astray. They want Christ on their terms, with their sin intact. They love preachers who tell them their sins are ok so they can continue fooling themselves into believing Christ never told us to repent.

          • Jerry James

            Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

            Note: the Prophet said in
            1 Kings 18:21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. The white House most Answer this question

        • jorgelm123

          Oh please…

        • 0Dash96

          Jakes is an “awesome man of God?” No. He’s as false as they come and pray those who have been led astray would recognize that.

        • Monica Mullins

          No he’s not. As long as he condones sin he is not a man of God. He is someone who tells people what they want to hear to keep the money rolling in. I had great respect for this man till I found out the truth. He doesn’t believe in the trinity. He believes there is more ways than one to heaven and that it’s alright to be gay. I believe the words of the Bible to be the truth. I believe in the holy spirit, Jesus, and God. There is only one way to heaven and that is thru the son who sets at the right hand of the father. Who died on the cross and was resurrected in 3 days. The bible says man shall not lay with man as a woman. And woman shall not lie with woman. The B bible says it is an abomination and shall not enter the kingdom of heaven.

          • Tom Cook

            The term “people with itching ears” comes to mind.

        • Hedgedweller

          If they are quoting Jakes, word for word, in the first paragraph, I recall him saying that homosexuals should attend congregations that affirm (support or encourage) their lifestyle. So you cant say he recognize homosexuality and at the same time, say we should encourage their lifestyle of sin, without becoming abandoning the principles of Christ, to go and sin no more. That would be what Paul calls, an apostate.

        • Paul gidon

          GeneralDrake re read the article he definitely didn’t say homosexuality was a sin which it clearly is. And we are to supposed to call out sin.Our body is not ours it’s Gods. Just like our opinion doesn’t matter. It’s how the Creator says we should live is what counts

          • John Anthony Schultz

            Is “Homosexual Orientation” a worse sin than say, “Pedophilia”, or “Hetero-Adultery”, or “Theft”, or “Murder”?
            I just need a straight “YES”, or “NO”, please. …….
            And before you try & use the usual cliched dismissal, I will go on record as identifying as a 1,000% Hetero-Cis-Male. ….
            Ok, now, YES, or NO? ……
            ROAMNS 3:10. ROAMNS 3:23

        • Калоян Караджунов

          Yeah, I agree with you and I think some people are taking things not right, he may have delusions about gays but this is not apostacy, it is not grave sin, though it is not right to say church should change for gays, but the Kingdom should be preached to gays and then when they convert, they can come to church.Church is a place for gays as far as the church intends to help them find Jesus, apart from that, nothing else.

          • Char Fox

            That is not what Jakes is saying at all. He didn’t say preach the Kingdom to gays, he said gays should be able to attend a “church” that believes in homosexuality. His Words are black and white.

            And yes, abandoning a religious or political belief or principle (such as questioning your former belief of what Scripture states and allowing it to “evolve” to be politically correct) is the exact definition of apostasy.

            From the article:
            In his comments on Monday, Jakes advocated for the separation of Church and State, which would allow for “all types of people” to have whatever rights they desire despite biblical prohibitions. He said that politics don’t need to be based on Christianity.
            “[O]nce you get past [thinking America is a Christian nation] … Once you begin to understand that democracy—that a republic actually—is designed to be an overarching system to protect our unique nuances, then we no longer look for public policy to reflect biblical ethics,” Jakes explained.

            Which passage of Scripture does this mirror?

            1 Samuel 8
            6 But when they said, “Give us a king to lead us,” this displeased Samuel; so he prayed to the Lord. 7 And the Lord told him: “Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. 8 As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are doing to you. 9 Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will claim as his rights.”….

            There you have it Jakes. Separation of church and state (which is found nowhere in our countries governing laws BTW), or separation of God as our King?

        • Char Fox

          He said “The church should have the right to have its own convictions and values”….not that they should believe Scripture.

          He said “that the issue of homosexuality is “complex.””….not that it is a sin.

          I have no idea where you came to your conclusion. “He didn’t call them apostates he was thankful for the good work that they were still doing.”

          If we’re going to lean on the words of Paul, then, by all means, let’s lean on them.

          Lean on exactly what Paul thought of unnatural sex (homosexuality):

          Romans 1
          18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles. 24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

          Lean on exactly what Paul thought of sexual immorality in the church:

          1 Corinthians 5
          5 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife. 2 And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this? 3 For my part, even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. As one who is present with you in this way, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this. 4 So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. 6 Your boasting is not good. Don’t you know that a little yeast leavens the whole batch of dough? 7 Get rid of the old yeast, so that you may be a new unleavened batch—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8 Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old bread leavened with malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing to you that YOU MUST NOT ASSOCIATE WITH ANYONE WHO CLAIMS TO BE A BROTHER OR SISTER BUT IS SEXUALLY IMMORAL or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people. 12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “EXPEL THE WICKED PERSON FROM AMONG YOU.”

          Paul didn’t say send them to another church. And He most definitely referred to them as being apostate.

          a·pos·tate
          əˈpäˌstāt,əˈpästət
          adjective
          1. abandoning a religious or political belief or principle.

          In your example, Paul was thankful that the Gospel was preached, but He also didn’t pull punches in pointing out the sin…”The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely…”

      • Iamionis

        When we as christian’s get in our mind that all sin is horrible, and know that God say’s, in this instance I see Jesus kneeling down writing in the dirt saying he has no sin cast the 1st stone, if we didn’t spend so much time trying to uncover one another’s faults, and use the gift of LOVE that God has giving to each one trying to win lost souls over, we would be a more effective body of believers…If you know your word you will never see a time when JESUS pointed out a person sins he covered them, and when he was angry about the money changer he was upset about the situation and not the people as individuals…Put on the mind of Christ for goodness sake, God forbid we know you what your sin is you “Perfect People” we have to better SAINTS.

        • Watchman on the Wall

          I do know my word and you are wrong. Sin must be confronted when in the body of Christ. It must be done in love and due order. What you are doing here is allowing sin to grow by shaming anyone who recognizes it. That allows the cancer of sin to grow and rot the body from within.

          And just so you know, in the very example you gave, Christ wrote the sins down for everyone there to see. They weren’t hidden they were uncovered. Sin, hidden, grows and festers. Sin, exposed to the light, withers and dies.

          • Jason Combs

            No I believe she is right. You said you know your word but there is nothing in the bible that says He wrote their sins, so how can you just make something up and say its in the bible. We are transformed through the Holy Spirit not through someone telling us its wrong.

          • Paul gidon

            Jason combs it doesn’t matter what you believe. It’s all about what the Creator wants… Repentance not acceptance

          • Jacob Battle

            AMEN!!

          • Steven Webb

            More importantly. He wiped the sins out, with one swoop of His hand in the sand, because He looked in the heart, and knew the truth. He is the Word, He is the truth. The Holy Spirit allows us to glimpse Life from the perspective of grace, faith, and truth. As Christians we sometimes forget, everything is new, we have the Holy Ghost now to lead us in truth, so the law must be seen through different eyes, depth, character, the heart. Otherwise we fail to see the law has not changed. It is love God, and live each other. We are under grace now, the law of God is of the Spirit of LIFE in Christ, not the old letter that brought about death. Christ has fulfilled the law, and now advocates for us, denouncing the accuser’s anticks and constant litigation, because we who are in Christ love, live, and move in freedom, and Amazing Grace.

          • Gerson Roche Santiago

            And then he told her to go on and don’t sin anymore! Not go to a congregation that lives in sin!

          • Jane Doe

            Amen!

          • phishing4men

            Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. YOUR QUOTE:. It is to love God, and love each other. I agree with by there, but.If men love God and men love other men they do not show it by sucking each others body parts or sticking their members up each others rears. An unrepentant practicing sodomite like any of us who practice sin will not go unpunished. Can a sodomite ask God to bless their abominable love making? Can a drunk ask God to bless the next drink, can an obese person ask God to bless the next candy bar, can a liar ask God to bless the next lie he is about to tell.

          • Jacob Battle

            RIGHT ON BROTHER!!!

          • Kim Mitchener Miller

            It’s between them and God, not me. Who is the church has no sin?

          • Char Fox

            Its between me and God as to whether I cause any of His to stumble by telling them it’s ok to sin.

          • Char Fox

            You are only under grace, “if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you.”

            1 John 5:12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

            Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means!

            Mark 8:34 Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.”

            Salvation is a free gift, but salvation isn’t given to everyone, only to those who truly believe. I can say I believe my car will get me from point a to point b. But if I fail to put gas in, do I REALLY believe it? I can say I believe Christ has saved me, but if I spit in His face by continuing to do what I claim I’m sorry for, do I truly believe He died for my sins? I can say I love others, but if I know they’re not entering through the narrow gate and refuse to warn them, do I truly love them?

            If I turn out to be wrong in this (and I’m taking it all from scripture), I’d have at least stated what my heart says is right. If I didn’t, I’d be guilty of hating you by telling you it’s ok to sin because Jesus died for all our sins. Because that is NOT what Scripture tells me and hell isn’t a place I’d wish on my worst enemy.

            When I hear Jesus said love one another and Jesus said judge not, I always cringe. Because it’s typically used in response against everything else He said.

            Here’s what it looks like to me, I’m not judging another to say “Jesus said…” it is what it is. He said not to. Will we, yes. But if He said no, why would we justify doing it claiming grace? It’s that justification of it that bothers me. I’m judging the sin. Godly repentance leads to Godly sorrow. When i do something I know God doesn’t approve of, I “feel it”! It makes me feel sorrow. If I get to where I feel comfortable with it, I better be scared. So I’m not judging the person but the sin…even within myself.

            And if I claim to love others but refuse to warn them of danger, is that really love? If you know a friend is going to make a terrible mistake, even if they think they’re doing the right thing and think you should be supportive, does love refuse to warn them or support them falling flat on their face?

            So when you think Jesus said love one another and Jesus said judge not, consider what it is to love and judge.

          • Daud

            are you suggesting that we should do anything we want to do, because that’s how it sounds, if i am doing something i would like it to be brought to my attention

          • Jacob Battle

            Jesus put shepherds over the Church instruct the body of believers, The Bible instructs up to warn our brothers, and sisters, of their sins. We must remember the three words of importance, which are, Exhort, Edify, and rebuke. Paul said he had to rebuke some of them sharply, that their soul would be saved.

          • Joann Pittman-Stephens

            That is the way of the world cleaning up someone else’s backyard instead of ur own if we take the time to work on self instead of working on others while thinking that u r perfect them u might be able to state facts but none of us r perfect n e
            We never will be as we sin sometimes n don’t even know it but who am I ii never judge as I don’t want to be judged but as like anything everybody has an opinion I am a Muslim woman who knows who I am I agree with td Jake’s however I hope we don’t start separating churches

          • Leroy Mincey

            A muslim or anyone else at that matter, who is not a Born Again christian is incapable of comprehending what is righteous before the Savior of the Word. Of course you will agree with T.D. Jakes. He embraces the doctrine of inclusion.

        • McRay66

          You seem to forget that after he for gave them he told him to go and sin no more

          • FreeYourMind2

            They always leave that part out.

          • FreeYourMind2

            They always leave that part out. Now they say “Sin is no more”. That’s what they “evolved” to. They are smarter than Jesus and God, I suppose.

          • Gbolo Buddy Emmanuel

            It’s true. True repentance is going and sining no more

        • ontheroadwitheric

          lamionis – I think you have a perverted view of Christianity, picking and choosing the scriptures that amplify your mal-understanding. Jesus wins over hearts and minds, not people. If “used” properly, we are only God’s vessels, not the message.

          After the words about planks in all eyes, Jesus said, “Go, and sin no more.” He didn’t “cover” sins, he exposed them. I’m curious why you choose to give individuals a pass for their own sin, instead blaming it on sin instead of the deliberate acts of the person.

          I think Jesus detested dishonesty and lack of integrity. You disrespect that when you, one one hand (rightly) say, “if we didn’t spend so much time trying to uncover one another’s faults, and use the gift of LOVE that God has giving to each one trying to win lost souls over, we would be a more effective body of believers,” and then in the last paragraph contradict yourself when you say, “God forbid we know you what your sin is you ‘Perfect People’.”

          Isn’t hubris (pride) a sin?

          Also, you might want to review some grammar basics such as capitalization and apostrophe use. In your first sentence, “christian’s” [sic] should be “Christians”; capitalized and plural, not possessive. “Say’s” should be “says”. Geesh.

          • MoeY

            Thanks. You just pointed out my pet peeve.

          • Char Fox

            Hmmmm

            When I read your statement “He didn’t “cover” sins, he exposed them” 1 Peter 4:8 came to mind. “Love covers over a multitude of sins”.

            Of course this isn’t the intent of 1 Peter 4:8, but just a different thought on the statement that it seems as if the “love” card is always pulled out whenever sin is mentioned, like trying to cover up/hide our sins. Yet Scripture says to confess our sins.

        • Monica Mullins

          We didn’t uncover it . He posted it in full view. It is a sin. Be how small or big.

        • Cristy Hunter Ashworth

          That is not what Jesus wrote in the sand the Bible never stated what was written. He (Jesus) spoke those word to the pharisees.

        • Awand

          I agree with you, but may I also add my opinion. I agree that we MUST love one another. We can take nothing but love with us when we depart this life…however, there is also Scripture 2nd Corinthians 6:17 which tells us to come out from them. We are to be separate and touch nothing unclean. Romans 1 tells us how strongly God is against homosexuality. Often man wants to change the Scriptures to satisfy themselves rather than satisfying God. God loves the sinner, but hates the sin. Homosexuality is sin, a dirty filthy trick from Satan that has so many minds twisted and corrupted. We are to love those who practice this horrible sinful act, but we are also to separate ourselves from their sin and I believe that same separation should also be for those who claim to be “preachers”, but steer people away from God’s Word.

          • Gerson Roche Santiago

            AMEN 2 THAT!

          • Antoinette Brass

            Where does it say God loves the sinner but hates the sin.
            Psalm 8: 17 I love those that love me….do sinners love God? If course not!
            What about Psams 7:11
            God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.
            People should stop saying God lovers sinners. He loved the world so much at one time that He gave His all. His only begotten Son.
            What more could he give anf to a people who hated Him (Rom 5)..
            Now His son had lived and died upon a tree that we would live having our sins atoned by the bloof of The Christ. Now he’s offering that atonement as a free gift for all who will accept it.
            The free gift that cost us nothing but cost Him everything. What more can a man do but lay down His life for a friend. However, we were nit God’s friend! We were actually God -haters and yet He gave His son knowing we couldn’t care less. What manner of God is this Jesus? A king that would be a sacrifice for me?
            A king that would willingly, knowingly walk to Golgotha in my place.
            Yet, today we still have people that refuse to accept that precious life sustaining gift.

        • Paul gidon

          Iamionis. When Jesus healed someone He would say “go and sin no more” not “go and keep sinning”
          Read Gods word it’s clear on how we should treat sin. Don’t make Christianity what you want it to be. God gave you life respect that by acknowledging marriage is between man and woman

        • Stephen Troy Boan

          Its not that at all. Everyone sins, but not everyone wants too redefine what God calls a sin as normal and acceptable. The issue is not with anyone walking out their beliefs, but false teaching that God wants people to be homosexual is not anywhere in his Word. The church has every right to reach out in love, but many in the homosexual community do not want love from Christians without acceptance of homosexuality as God’s desire for their lives Lying,stealing,fornication,adultery,and many more are sins but Pastors should always to encourage believers to repent, turn from sin, and strive to live Holy lives.; not simply follow their desires or seek a church that will tell them what they want to hear..

          • Leroy Mincey

            Amen!

        • Daud

          stop misquoting its people like you why young people don’t believe in the Bible, yes Jesus said let he without sin cast the first stone, you however conveniently forget to mention he turned to the women who the crowd was threatening to stone to death, telling her that her sins were forgiven and that she was to sin no more, sin no more sin no more, what that con artist and Jesus were saying are completely diffident

        • Jr Smith

          Jesus also said, Go and SIN NO MORE.

          • Tammy Taylor Maxwell

            Disappointed in Mr Jakes. He was one of my favorite ministers. But I see he has sold out. Money will get you ever time.

        • Hayden71

          Of course Jesus pointed out sin, and to say otherwise is incorrect. He did this in many passages but to be specific, look at John 4 & Matthew 23.

          He told her, “Go, call your husband and come back.” “I have no husband,” she replied. Jesus said to her, “You are right when you say you have no husband. The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true.” – John 4:16-18

        • Sarah Dispenza

          Showing love to someone does not change God’s word on the subject. That is a rationalization that will lead astray.

          • 4True

            Destroying the church to accommodate their desires does not show love either. Certainly it shows no love, fear, or honor to God.

        • Gerson Roche Santiago

          Really, not the people? I wonder if u have read Luke 19:45 or Matthew 21:12. I wonder what ” driven out” means?

        • Trent

          Who is this that darkeneth counsel with words without knowledge? Job 38:2

          Christ most certainly did point out sin. Your knowledge of Christ is frightening at best.

          Jesus Christ was not big on soft-spoken, “let me listen carefully and make sure I understand you,” give-and-take dialogue; but He was a great preacher. He scalded the Pharisees because they perverted the way of truth and corrupted the gospel of grace, calling them hypocrites, blind guides, fools and blind, serpents, generation of vipers. And that was just one sermon! Even when he visited in the homes of the Pharisees He didn’t try to be socially acceptable or avoid offending their self-esteem. He spoke the truth in love at all times and therefore offended them coming and going! They were so angry that they plotted his murder.

        • Tlove

          Putting on a “Mind of christ” Requires one to ignore factual truths. And the truth of the matter in this situations is. “This man and many like him who spread the word of god to the masses, Do not follow the teachings of the word, So calling it for what it is isn’t wrong in fact those who are speaking up about this should be commended” Never allow ur “Beliefs” to allow you to stop thinking “Critically”

        • Brian Daniel Hof

          the difference between general sin and homosexual sin, is people know they need to REPENT of sin, but when you dont see homosexuality as a sin then you dont think you need to repent of it and think God is in favor of your lifestyle. so this is not just about sin, its about unrepentant sin

        • Beeta

          THAT IS A GREAT JOB OF WHITE WASHING SIN BUT IT DOES NOT FLY.. SIN AGAINST GOD IS JUST THAT AND YOU WILL NOT SEE GOD OR INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD. HE CALLS OUT SIN AND NO MAN ON EARTH CAN GLOSS IT OVER BY ACCUSING PEOPLE OF JUDGING OTHERS .. IT IS A TRICK OF THE DEVIL TO MAKE PEOPLE THINK THAT GOD DOES NOT SAY SIN SEPARATES YOU FROM GOD. READ YOUR BIBLE AND DON’T LISTEN TO THE WATERED DOWN GOSPEL THAT WILL SEND MAN TO HELL.THEY SEEK YOUR MONEY AND DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOUR SOUL IN ETERNITY..

        • phishing4men

          Psalm 7:11God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.

        • Joann Pittman-Stephens

          Ameen to that

        • Lance Holt

          He told dat woman after she was forgiven to go and sin no more and anothet after healing one man to sin no more, unless something worse come upon him (John 8:11; John 5:14 My opinion is nothing if it contradict God,

        • Char Fox

          An effective body of believers is one that effectively teaches the Bible and what it says. If they don’t, they’re not believers.

        • Char Fox

          Jesus said:

          Matthew 15:19
          For out of the heart come evil thoughts–murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.

          Mark 7:20-23
          He went on: “What comes out of a man is what makes him unclean. For from within, out of men’s hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and make a man unclean.

          Matthew 19:4-5
          Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’?

          Matthew 15:19-20
          For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.”

          John 5:46-47 (supporting teaching of Moses)
          “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote of Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

        • Char Fox

          Why does the majority stop at Jesus said love one another and ignore everything else He said?

          Matthew 18:15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

          Matthew 18:6 
          BUT WHOEVER CAUSES ONE of these little ones who believe in me TO SIN, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

          John 14:15 
          “IF YOU LOVE ME, you will keep my commandments.

          John 8:11
          …“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

          John 15: 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

          Why is it people immediately think you’re haters? Loving others means not wanting them to be led straight into hell. People equate love with acceptance. Everyone wants to feel accepted. But are we after His acceptance or mans?

          Jesus certainly said love one another, but that’s not ALL He said. We can’t choose to stop there and ignore the rest or we’re not listening to Him but choosing only what we want to hear.

          • Iamionis

            You correct I was taught as a child of God to make sure I read what is before and after a verse, what I choose to doe as an individual is when one over with Love and allow the Holy ghost to lead in which direction to administer reproof, and correction because they would have by now trust the Jesus in me and know that with that Love they will begin to hate the sin in their life and have a transformable mind.

          • Char Fox

            Nothing wrong with that, it’s what we’re supposed to do. But loving people and telling them the Bible doesn’t call homosexuality sun and accepts it as ok once you repent, are two different things entirely. TD Jakes knows better. And leading people to believe this isn’t love, it’s more like pure hatred, because he’s leading them to hell rather than wanting to keep them out of it.

      • PurposeInLife

        Agreed “Liked”. Greed in selling his latest book. See my later comment.

      • Monica Mullins

        His so called ministry brings in a lot of money.

        • 4True

          Jakes is an awful human being. He almost single-handedly offered the black church to Obama. He had to know what Obama believed and had done in the past. The dead full-term babies in Illinois – His loyalty to his Muslim relative in Kenya who was violent against Christians there. That his half brother supported (still does) Al Bashir’s genocide of millions in South Sudan (mostly Christian), He got incensed when Franklin Graham questioned Obama’s Christianity. Jakes and Obama – 2 of a kind.

      • John Anthony Schultz

        Is “Homosexual Orientation” a worse sin than say, “Pedophilia”, or “Hetero-Adultery”, or “Theft”, or “Murder”? I juist need a straight “YES”, or “NO”, please. …….
        And before you try & use the usual cliched dismissal, I will go on record as identifying as a 1,000% Hetero-Cis-Male. ….
        Ok, now, YES, or NO? ……
        ROAMNS 3:10. ROAMNS 3:23

        • Cherie Denk

          In the eyes of God a sin is a sin. Sin is not quantified as big and little or small sin greater sin. James 2:10-13 New International Version (NIV)

          For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,”[a] also said, “You shall not murder.”[b] If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker. Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

          Read Matthew 5 Jesus words
          21 “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[b][c] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’[d] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.

          27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[e] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

        • David N Lea Bryant

          The answer is NO! Sin is sin John 🙂

        • Michael Caruthers

          “No”, and “Yes”. “No”, in that the wages of sin is death – and that would mean ALL sin. “Yes”, in that the particulars of a homosexual choice is representative of a particular state that the individual is in. Romans chapter 1 is very specific on this issue, and clearly points out that individuals who practice such have been given over to a reprobate mind. Think on that, let that sink in: a reprobate mind.

          Does it say in Scripture that a thief has been given over to a reprobate mind? Or a liar? Or any of the other Ten Commandments? No, it doesn’t. Can a person with a reprobate mind be a thief, a liar, etc.? Sure, but that in itself DOES NOT indicate a reprobate mind.

          Scripture then goes on to define those with a reprobate mind, and those signs will be: “…..God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.” Romans 1:28b-32

          That is the definition, but what is the cause? Scripture clearly states the cause as: “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;” Romans 1:18-28

          So, “No”, sin is sin and the wages of ALL sin is death. “Yes”, in that as it states in Romans 1:18, “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;” we are not talking about people who sin and repent. We are talking about people who DO NOT repent (turn from their ways) – BUT instead take pleasure and joy in doing such while upholding their ways AS RIGHTEOUS, which they clearly are not.

        • 4True

          No but these other lifestyles (sins) are not steamrolling over the church trying to force it serve their particular sin. Only homosexuality. They are attacking us on every side, and more love isn;t the answer. Sometimes you fight evil. or you effectively serve it. .

        • Char Fox

          Sin is sin is sin. But what’s your point? Because sin is sin does it mean we “evolve” into acceptance of it? If a pedophile or adulterer, do we allow them to serve the church and say it’s ok, God loves you anyway brother?

          Here’s what Scripture says:

          Matthew 18:15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

          We need to be treating more and more like pagans, not telling them Jesus loves them. He does, but He also said go and sin no more. If you can’t repent and turn from pedophilia, adultery, homosexuality, fornication, theft, lying, etc. etc., you don’t even need to waste time going to church. Repentance is a change of heart. If you still want to behave like this, then you haven’t repented and you’re only in it for a social club.

          The church today is like yesterday’s synagogues. You go and search the Scriptures but are still blind. Everyone grabs Jesus’ message of love, dismissing His message of repentance and fruitfulness. They WANT to enter His kingdom on their terms not His. What did He say to become a disciple? Take up your cross and follow me. He didn’t say keep living the same life. So if the latter is our choice, we’re NOT His disciples.

          Many say they believe but true belief will have works that follow, true belief comes with true repentance and Godly sorrow, true belief is a matter of the heart not the tongue. If you’re not REALLY sorry for doing those things God hates, how can you say you have repented?

          A church can tell their congregation to attend a church that believes what they do, but that is saying it’s ok to attend a church that doesn’t believe in the Bible. Big big lie.

          Clearly we’re not to turn away those in need, no matter how sinfully they live. Clearly we’re to tell the Gospel of Christ’s resurrection and message of salvation. And that’s His message…to turn to Him, believe in Him, repent and follow Him. If we don’t tell it as stated in Scripture, we may as well be hating that person because we’re sending them to hell.

          I know I’m not stating the popular view of today’s church, but Jesus never set out to win a popularity contest. He in fact said He’d be hated. He said many will say Lord Lord, but His answer will be clearly “I never knew you”.

          Think this is so against Jesus’ message? Isn’t it all in Scripture? So which parts of Scripture are we allowed to throw out?

          2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness…

          Let’s call those with this unpopular view haters, homophobes, religious nuts if you will, but regardless of whether you believe the 66 books of the Protestant, 73 Catholic, 81 Ethiopian, or the entire apocrypha, ALL of them say to repent.

          Many say these are the last days. But we will not know the hour. But what will we know?

          2 Timothy 3:1 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH SUCH PEOPLE.

          Kinda sounds like T.D. Jake’s type of world. “The church should have the right to have its own convictions and values…” If you really read what he’s saying, he’s speaking complete heresy. He’s wanting Christianity to conform to politics rather than Christ. I’ve heard good statements about him but never listened to him, and I’m extremely thankful I didn’t.

          Matthew 18:6 
          BUT WHOEVER CAUSES ONE of these little ones who believe in me TO SIN, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

          1 Peter 2:1-25 
          So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander. Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation— IF INDEED you have tasted that the Lord is good. 

          Matthew 7:15-20 
          “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

          John 14:15 
          “IF YOU LOVE ME, you will keep my commandments.

          Of that last, what would be the opposite? If you don’t love Me, follow T.D. Jakes and do what you believe is right. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. And that unpopular service would include telling people that they are being led straight into hell. 🙁

          I’ll step down off my soap box, bash me if you must, but please do one thing if nothing else, read the Scriptures above. Even just those quotes of Christ alone. And examine whether you truly repented or are just following blind guides. Now’s the time to do this examination because tomorrow’s not guaranteed.

      • L34

        selling the Gospel,turning the church into a business

      • Beeta

        IF YOU CANNOT SEE HIS GREED LIKE SO MANY OTHER TELE-EVANGELIST YOU ARE TOTALLY BLIND. HOW MANY HOMES, PLANES , LIMOS, DIAMONDS DOES A PERSON NEED? THAT MONEY WAS GIVEN TO GOD NOT TO HIM BUT HE TAKES IT AND BUILDS HIS CASTLES EVERYWHERE.. HE SURE WANT HAVE ONE IN HEAVEN..

        • HeLives

          TD & Creflo D are shining examples of fulfilling their own fruits, for themselves.
          WOE unto ALL ‘teachers’ who do so.
          I used to like him, but would turn him off when he ‘YELLED’ & got all haughty & crazy on stage. I don’t get into anyone who SCREAMS God at you. If you don’t have a mic & have hundreds + people to reach, SCREAM then!
          He had some good teachings when he just ‘spoke’ w/o the SCREAMING & pacing back ‘n forth wiping his head every 10 seconds.

          This is extremely disappointing to know. I was unaware of his ‘pro gay’ stance. This will just turn me from him, entirely now, as he has fallen ‘prey’ as God said so many, ‘even the elect’, would, in these End of End days.
          Rick Warren is another w/so many followers, that went off the rails. To get a ‘Chrislam’ bible together, mixing Muslim & Christian beliefs & removing Jesus as the Son of God, 900x!!! OH MY!

          Another SCREAMING example, of how we are to follow CHRIST & Christ ALONE.
          The days are Noah are upon us. Many will be ‘left behind’ that expected to be Raptured. Hopefully then, they’ll get right w/God & help win souls for Jesus during the horrors of the Tribulation.
          We need to keep in prayer for all the lost & misguided.
          And be Looking UP. Our Redemption is nigh.

        • Калоян Караджунов

          lol, you need 2 or 3 witnesses of him stealing money to accuse him of greed, or atleast some nasty deed.

      • Jane Doe

        He is interested in selling “feel good” theology and books. I’d say that gives the appearance of being interested in money over the infallible Word of God.

      • Jacob Battle

        He is worthy over ten million dollars, lives in a 3 to 4 million dollar home, and he has the movement of Oprah. This man is a representative of Satan. He don’t believe the Bible is true, just look at his fruits.

    • Samuel F Waddell

      It does. There seems to be many these days!

    • 51franco

      And what exactly is “the word of God?”

      • FreeYourMind2

        Read it and find out.

    • PurposeInLife

      “liked”

    • Marie Word

      I agree

    • Beeta

      THEY DO ANYTHING FOR MONEY.. BETTER ENJOY IT IN THIS LIFE FOR THEY WILL NOT BE SO HAPPY IN THE NEXT LIFE ..

  • Rebecca

    What a compromising fool he is. A Charlatan. A false teacher. It’s good to know God will deal with Mr. Jakes in His own time.

    • Sondra Cherry

      Tickling of the ears..end times prophecy being fulfilled more and more every day. Knowing the word of God warns us of people like TD. It’s still disheartening to see this happen.

    • jorgelm123

      I totally agree!

    • John Anthony Schultz

      Is “Homosexual Orientation” a worse sin than say, “Pedophilia”, or “Hetero-Adultery”, or “Theft”, or “Murder”?
      I just need a straight “YES”, or “NO”, please. …….
      And before you try & use the usual cliched dismissal, I will go on record as identifying as a 1,000% Hetero-Cis-Male. ….
      Ok, now, YES, or NO? ……
      ROAMNS 3:10. …. ROAMNS 3:23

      • Char Fox

        You can’t just point out 2 verses of an entire 66 books. Why don’t you read the whole book? Better yet, just read the rest of that one chapter….

        Romans 3:31
        Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

        Whether it’s worse has nothing at all to do with this article. The article is about accepting that particular sin as ok with God.

  • Pam Parizo

    Paul did not grapple over homosexuality. I think he stated it fairly clear in Romans chapter 1. We should have love for the sinner but that doesn’t mean accommodating their lifestyle.

  • Alien Attack

    So, basically people should develop their own theology, culture, and values based on their sinful desires and then themselves into a group with the label ‘church’? Got it.

    • DJ Salinger

      Uh yep. How else do you explain Catholicism, Baptism, Protestant, Dutch Reform, Lutheran, or any of the other 41,000 denominations out there—and that’s JUST for Christianity alone.

      There aren’t many essential doctrines that define what it means to be a Christian. So, how about you let this man be his type of Christian. You be yours. And let things be as they are.

      • Louise

        Or better yet, why don’t we let God’s word be the final authority on everything.

        • DJ Salinger

          That too. Either way, we’re certainly not going to get anywhere by arguing about gay people and who or what church accepts them. Let people be people. I don’t think they’re living in sin…but that’s me. I’m also not sitting here judging others like I’m some sort of self-righteous king of the universe.

          • Les Mcc

            That’s right…and let those adulterers and pedophiles alone too…why, they’re just “being themselves”..why should we judge them?!

          • DJ Salinger

            Oh cool, you brought the slippery slope argument into this. For a second there, I was worried nobody would do that. Lumping adulterers and paedophiles into the same category is a bit extreme, don’t you think?

          • Bishop Asuquo

            Your opinion, obviously, counts then. If you don’t judge the behavior of homosexuals as sin cos you ain’t qualified to, why call his statement being extreme when he said we should let pedophiles and adulterers be themselves. You judged him as being extreme consequently. I know we can’t help it. It just kicks in. Why do you think pedophiles and adulterers are living in sin? Besides, you are not “some self-righteous king”. You can’t possibly judge them as sinful.

          • DJ Salinger

            My opinion doesn’t count anymore than anyone else’s. I’m just not idiotic or self-righteous enough to think that I can judge others for doing what they do.

            Paedophiles and adulterers are completely different situations. Adultery is a violation of a person’s trust and marriage vows. Not against the law. It’s a moral issue. Paedophilia is not.

            Paedophilia is against the law. It also causes victims and damages families. It causes biological harm, especially if incest-based.

            Homosexuality does nothing of the sort to anyone involved and causes no societal or biological harm.

            So, no. I’m not judging anyone. I’m also not quick to lump all these things into the same category and treat them as if they are equals.

          • Kaleb Marshall

            Paedophilia is against whose law? And upon what is that law based, shifting, changing man, or eternal, unchangeable God?

          • DJ Salinger

            Uh … paedophilia is against every law on the books. In every state and on the national level. So it’s against OUR laws. Secular laws. Human laws. Which EVERYONE follows. Nobody is exempt from following national and state secular laws. People are exempt, however, from following religious laws—especially if they don’t prescribe to said religion. Let me guess … you’re a theocrat?

            Do what you want to do with your religious laws and doctrines—but they don’t belong in the public sphere of law and policy. Not everyone follows your God’s religious law and doctrine. If you want to discuss the merits of secular law and the legal ramifications of it, let’s do that. Using secular terms.

            If you wish to discuss the merits of religious law and the moral ramifications of it, let’s do that. Using religious terms. The two are mutually exclusive and should not be mixed together.

            It’s the only way to give a solid foundation on which a discussion can build. Using secular laws, developed by man.

          • Kaleb Marshall

            How can a “solid foundation” be provided when man’s views cannot remain consistent? You and I might agree that pedophilia is wrong… but a pedophile wouldn’t. 100 years ago, pretty much everybody agreed homosexuality is wrong… now it’s *maybe* 50/50 in the Western world.

            If consensus is how you build law, then what is wrong with slavery? What is wrong with putting someone down, based on their skin color?

          • DJ Salinger

            100 years ago, pretty much everybody agreed homosexuality is wrong? They did? Where’s your source for such a claim?

            If you do a bit of research, you’ll find that homosexuality has been present in humans since before Biblical times. As has people who are trans and other forms of gender/sexual fluidity.

            A paedophile may believe they aren’t doing anything wrong, but their actions cause harm towards others. There’s the difference. Mainly, those (young children) who cannot protect themselves against adult behavior are the ones harmed.

            There is ZERO empirical proof that homosexuality causes harm towards others. Both from a biological, societal and legal perspective. From your religious perspective? Sure. Ok. But again, your religious perspective doesn’t define someone’s life for them.

            Nice job on the slippery slope argument here in talking about slavery. Using that is ridiculous and is not a valid comparison. Owning another human being causes harm to someone. Homosexuals do not cause harm to other people at all … especially not in the same way as slavery or paedophilia does.

            I don’t know how I can make it simpler than that.

          • Kaleb Marshall

            “100 years ago, pretty much everybody agreed homosexuality is wrong? They did? Where’s your source for such a claim?”

            A), it’s common knowledge, B) check Wikipedia. Why were the Stonewall riots a notable event? Because homosexuality was (in 1969) a forbidden thing, as it had been all throughout the 20th century.

            Citing an example of ancient Greeks or Romans is no answer to a claim about 1916. However, it does allow me to try to bring this discussion back to its original place. Homosexuality was known in Biblical times, yes, and God’s word on it was clear and consistent: no. This is why TD Jakes’ situation is so sad. He’s saying the Bible is fuzzy, when on this issue, it’s very clear.

            Why is causing another person harm wrong? Why is it evil? Is it wrong to harm a person (by jailing them) if they have committed an egregious enough wrong (pedophilia)? If so, why?

            I think you may be a little eager to see a slippery slope argument in everything. Go back and read again: my argument was that man’s opinions change on what deeds are wrong. That’s not a slippery slope, it’s documented fact and history.

          • DJ Salinger

            Ok, so TD Jakes is wrong for interpreting the Bible to think one thing vs another. So it’s okay when Kings of England order the Bible to be reinterpreted and reworked according to their ways but one pastor can’t say “meh. the Bible’s kind of fuzzy on homosexuality.”??? Seems to make a ton of sense to me.

            I consider myself a moral relativist, so just so you know—that’s my angle here. Causing harm to another human creates a different feeling within a person. If a person doesn’t feel remorse for said harm, they have a chemical imbalance and should be dealt with appropriately.

            Laws come out of societal and social norms for the general good of all involved. I would hardly consider “jailing” a person as “harming” them. It’s an attempt to reform them so they can be members of society again. At least, that was the intent (I personally believe).

            If I had my way, every punishment would fit the crime. You rape? You get castrated. You kill? You get killed. You’re a paedophile? You get a lobotomy.

            Man’s opinions change. Yes. They have for centuries and they will continue to for centuries to come. You say the Bible does not change. Except for the literal thousands of times where it has. :-/

          • Kaleb Marshall

            “You say the Bible does not change. Except for the literal thousands of times where it has. :-/”

            Now I’m going to have to be the one to ask you to cite your sources. And by the way, I don’t care about changes within a translation– I want to see verifiable changes in the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek sources. (God never promised to make any and all translations pure.)

            It’s very obvious you’re a moral relativist. But I have to ask, relative to what? I don’t know of a single thing that is purely “relative”. The term itself infers another thing, a fixed point, by which navigation is possible.

            Also, how can we look at a different time and say “They shouldn’t have had slavery, it’s bad”, if our own judgments are fickle as the wind? It seemed OK to them; who are we to say it was wrong?

            How is hurting somebody bad? Why is it bad? I’m sorry, but “creating a different feeling” is a completely unsatisfactory answer. Why is it evil to create a bad feeling?

            I can answer these questions. It’s wrong to hurt somebody because an omnipotent, omniscient, loving, and holy being, known as God, said so. This God laid out the Golden Rule as law because it is an aspect of his nature. Bad feelings are an *effect*, not the source, of evil.

            And last, no, it’s not OK to try to rework the Bible to make it say something it doesn’t. If I “translate” Don Quixote so that Quixote chased after actual giants, rather than windmills, I’m ruining the story, aren’t I? And it’s much worse if we’re talking about what God has dictated, rather than a fictional story of man.

          • Clay

            See now, you have these things wrong, the Bible was not interpreted it was translated, there is a big difference. It has more original texts than any other writing known to man. It historic accuracy to mans evolution and history is undisputable.

          • writebrain

            Not to mention the literal thousands of Gods that have come before this current God.

          • Clay

            During the time of the Roman Empire, The Babylonian Empire, they were thought to indestructible. That they would rule forever. Egypt was a world power. But there were 3 things that these empires did that are distinct in each ones downfall and they are !.) A turning away from God’s Word, 2.) Political Corruptness. 3.) Sexual Immorality. These were the down fall to any nation and a reproach on any people.

          • DJ Salinger

            No. You’re wrong. Your first point is VERY wrong. Read a friggin history book. Here’s why you’re wrong on the turning away from God’s word:

            In case you forgot or are misremembering things: The ROMANS WERE NOT CHRISTIANS until it became the state religion in 380. Christianity ended centuries of persecution, sure, but the rise of another religion contributed to the fall of Rome. It shifted the current belief, that Roman emperors were divine and shifted the glory of the state to a sole deity (you call him God).

            Sexual immorality played ZERO role in the fall of Rome. The only thing you got correct there was the political corruptness. Here are a few other things that ACTUALLY contributed to Rome’s fall:

            1. The Germanic Tribe Invasions – Starting in the 300s and finally falling in 476, the barbaric tribes hit Rome with forces unseen before. Rome got comfortable. Let their guard down and had major issues defending the city from these barbarians.

            2. Economic troubles and slave labor – Oppressive taxation widened the gap between rich and poor. Given that the Romans weren’t conquering Europe as well as they used to, slave labor dried up. No conquered countries? No slaves. No labor.

            3. They also overextended their military efforts and all of their efforts to logistically control their lands failed miserably.

            4. Political Corruption (so … you got one thing right).

            5. The reliance on foreign mercenaries: The ranks of the legions filled with Germanic tribes and other barbarians. While these Germanic soldiers were good fighters, they also had little or no loyalty to the Empire, and their power-hungry officers often turned against their Roman employers. In fact, many of the barbarians who sacked the city of Rome and brought down the Western Empire had earned their military stripes while serving in the Roman legions.

            Next time you try to step up and prove something, open a history book.

          • Char Fox

            And we know history is as infallible as the men who wrote it by the Bible with eyewitness accounts is flawed. Mmm hmm

          • DJ Salinger

            Uh … say what now? History is as infallible as the men who wrote it? Ok …? I guess we should believe what the Bible says instead? You know, that book that has been literally translated, recommissioned and re-written like thousands of times?

            Yeah, I bet there was nothing lost in translation with the Bible. (*side eye*)

          • Char Fox

            If you’re basing your argument on Biblical historical documents, then it covers ALL historical documents. You don’t get to pick and choose. So according to you this makes our history as untrue as the Scripture you claim is untrue, that is translated from documents that have been found and dated via science.

          • DJ Salinger

            Oh don’t mistake. I didn’t say the scripture was untrue. I said that you can’t trust a work of text that was literally commissioned to be REWRITTEN by a king of England to be more anglo-centric.

            There are multiple interpretations and versions of the Bible. There are not multiple interpretations and versions of how Rome fell or other historical events. The Bible is not, nor will ever be, a history book. Please don’t treat it like one.

          • Char Fox

            The Bible certainly is a history book. Many of the events are historically and archeologically proven. The Bible has been cross examined with documentation of events that line up with the time, with manuscripts dated to BC.
            These manuscripts were written before any king of England, and they exist today. Newly discovered manuscripts are cross examined with the Bible. The Dead Sea Scrolls BC translation from Hebrew to Greek have been cross examined with the Bible. The numerous manuscripts have been cross checked. Most of the New Testament manuscripts discovered were dated and concluded to have been written within 70 years of Christ’s death.

            Even some non-Christians agree on the reliability of the translations. So you can say it’s not history all you want, but the fact remains that it has been so meticulously cross referenced and examined to be more accurately assessed than other ancient writings by Plato and Aristotle, because they are better preserved and more numerous.

            The first thing non-Christians will do is attack the validity of the Bible, when they’ve never even viewed the evidence.

          • DJ Salinger

            *eye roll* — please explain to me then how a book that is apparently so “historically accurate” can be recommissioned to be re-written hundreds of times and be re-interpreted thousands of times?

            Not only that, nobody in the world speaks Aramaic anymore — so how can you possibly justify the legitimacy of the original text that has been translated over and over and over again?

            I’ve seen the evidence. I know the Bible references historical events. That doesn’t make it a history book especially when the writings INTERPRET said events. It’s one thing to catalogue the events in a historical context, it’s another to offer allegories, myths, and editorial thoughts on it. That’s what the Bible has done.

            It takes historical events and puts a Christian spin on them. That’s not history. Sorry.

          • Char Fox

            I’m not gonna debate tit for tat history of the Bible. Believe as you will. My motto is always…if I’m wrong, I’ve suffered no harm. If you’re wrong, Lord help you.

            But to answer your questions, the Bible is written in many different forms, while yet maintaining the same text. People have different ways of saying things. To many, the thees and thous of King James are confusing at best. But translations take place all the time, from ancient language to modern code encryption. And while there may be small nuances, it doesn’t change the overall meaning.

            As to events, Bible passages referencing certain events help to create a time reference of it’s writing. And some of those writings speak of wars in the timeframe they’re in, that didn’t happen til hundreds of years later…prophecy.

            But no matter how much evidence, some people are going to refute it while also refusing to study it for themselves. So there’s my evidence and you can take it or not. But it’s my final say on it. I won’t budge on what I know. You’re free to not budge on what you think. 😁

          • Char Fox

            Homosexuals themselves are the source. As there would have been no need to come out of the closet unless they were in the closet because of social stigma.

            You said they don’t cause harm, “especially not in the same way as slavery or paedophilia does”. I guess that’s subjecting your values on what pedophilia or slavery are. We’re all slaves to something. And it used to be common to marry young and still is common to marry very young in some places. You’re trying to argue against God’s moral compass by using your own moral compass.

          • DJ Salinger

            I’m not arguing against God’s moral compass. I’m perfectly fine with his moral compass. I’m arguing against people USING God’s moral compass as a weapon against others’ choices with which they disagree. That’s a problem. I’ve overly-articulated myself to death on this. I’m not going to tell you or explain it to you again.

            Simply put, your God’s moral code doesn’t dictate how OTHERS (other than those who follow your God) live their lives. Why is that difficult to comprehend?

          • Rob T

            Are you really claiming you have no god secular argument against pedophilia or slavery? That if your Bible didn’t say they were wrong, you’d have no problem with them? I have to doubt that.

          • Kaleb Marshall

            Why should I provide a defense of a false belief? Secularism cannot adequately deal with the problem of evil, so no, it cannot explain why pedophilia or slavery are wrong.

          • frybaby

            I think you guys need to back off, go to your own corner and keep this down Thank You

          • Kaleb Marshall

            I think if you look at the discussion, you’ll see it had already basically died off.

          • frybaby

            LOL Hi Kaleb I Noticed later lol I had no sleep

          • frybaby

            LOL Kaleb. I feel so silly now lol Thank you for pointing that out. I’m sitting here LOL.

          • Clay

            Just where do you think these laws that we have come from!! Do you study history and not just history but American history What do you think was the foundation to the Laws of this Land and where they came from??

          • DJ Salinger

            Well … since most of the Founding Fathers in America weren’t Christians — (they were escaping religious persecution and most of them were Deists) … I don’t know where they came from. They were brilliant men—possibly influenced by religious text but also influenced by what they experienced in England and the religious persecution they faced.

            Guess what though? The Constitution says your religion doesn’t get to dictate what other people do. And that’s my point the whole time on here. Now … can you answer me WHY your religion gets to tell people what they can do in the privacy of their own bedrooms and who they can or can’t have sex with?

            WHY? Just answer me that. WHY does YOUR religion get a say?

          • Clay

            WRONG!!!!!

          • DJ Salinger

            Man … you have so much proof in that statement.

          • Char Fox

            Pedophilia is against the law in MOST countries, but not all. So who gave us the moral authority to decide what age makes it pedophilia?

          • Hal Taylor

            Homosexuality does harm! Who do you think brought aids into the country? Brother if you have to wash your hands after going to the bathroom because of germs in a restaurant then I sure hope you realize God didn’t intend a man to put his penis in a pile of poop and rub it inside and out! Yes it causes trust issues, yes it causes biological harm and the lifestyle at large is a very risqué and filthy lifestyle that affects the nature of society. Homosexuality was also against the law but democrats and progressives want to change what the world was and gain power through the anarchy! and most Americans are simply asleep in the light about it or they have their head up their_____! I guess both of them!

          • DJ Salinger

            You’re silly. Who brought AIDS to this country? Well, my sources say that it was likely a shared needle shipment from Haiti and not a single person, but ok. That’s a tired argument anyway. “Put his penis in a pile of poop” – wow. Aren’t you one for the potent analogies and experiences? Are you drawing from personal knowledge on this or something?

            You lose all credibility when you refer to homosexual behavior that way. You sound like a friggin child on the playground in 4th grade.

            It does not cause biological harm. It does not cause physical harm. It does not cause societal harm. Show me empirical and scientific data from legitimate sources.

            Homosexuality was not “against the law.” Sodomy was. But not homosexuality. You make it sound as though simply being a homosexual could get you arrested and thrown in jail. And so what? What’s it to you? Do you clamor on about someone committing any other crimes? Probably not.

            Let people do what they want to do and let them achieve their own form of personal liberty as long as you’re not impacting the rights of another or stopping another from achieving said liberty. What’s wrong with you, “brother?”

          • Hal Taylor

            I did because it is truly relevant in this discussion. I used to counsel young men at Grady Hospital in Atlanta who suffered with aids and their families. Don’t tell me that homosexuality does no harm. Sit and deal with the shattered families dealing with the anger and resentment that is found in the death of their loved one. The money that has been diverted to cure this disease with more than 39 million adults and children infected worldwide could have been used for other problems. This has caused problems in individual countries as well as world wide. HIV is one of the most devastating threats to human health. As a result of HIV’s ability to reproduce itself so readily in the blood now, where it creates slightly different strains with each reproductive cycle, a cure has eluded researchers since the epidemic was announced in 1981 by a Republican administration and further funded not by 8 years of the Clinton administration but two years after their leaving Washington another Republican gave money for the first time to Africa to begin an international fight against this. I disagree with homosexuality but to say it does no harm is intellectually dishonest or complete naïve!

            Yes it has been accepted for 40years that Gaetan Dugas a French-Canadian flight attendant brought it is the Americas. Yes needles and drug abusers from Haiti also contributed as well but it is still true today that by far in America those contracting the aids virus get it through homosexual activity or through sex with someone who has practiced anal sex.
            Yes the analogy of a fecal covered penis is not ridiculous. It is just like you guys on the left not admitting to the barbaric practice of partial birth abortion even after having it available to see on the web. You have no guts to watch the truth of something because you will have to admit to that truth or to your course indifference. I am sure by your words you would believe in evolution over creationism. If that is the case then your arguments fall short again. Men were created to fit into a woman and reproduce. It is a perfect fit and plan whether it be natural or super natural, but you want everyone to be so open minded but factless in their ideas. Look at all the evidence get off your sofa and get into the game. Admit the truth to yourself first then you will be able to do so to others as well! Good luck!

          • DJ Salinger

            I’m still not sure why you just spent 10 sentences discussing AIDS with me. I don’t care. It’s not relevant to the topic at hand.

            The topic at hand is: Your Bible and your religion doesn’t get to decide what is morally righteous or lawful for people in this country—especially when it involves something that is private and personal. How would you like it if I went around and told you that youwere going to hell because you went to church every Sunday and practice prayer in the privacy of your own home?

            Honestly. Answer it.It’s not rhetorical.

            Don’t lump me in with “you guys on the left.” I’m a Libertarian and a moral relativist. I think individual liberties [protected by the Constitution] should be of the utmost consideration, that we should limit the scope of the government when it comes to social welfare programs and you should let people do what they want to do as long as that action doesn’t infringe upon another person’s personal liberty to achieve the same. Why is that so difficultfor you to understand?

            Nice job dodging the question about showing me empirical and scientific data that proves homosexuality causes harm to people in the same way that paedophilia or incestous relationships do. I implore you to do some research. I also have no clue as to why you brought abortion to this discussion. It holds no bearing on what we were talking about and is a feeble attempt to detract from the crux of our conversation here.

            And yeah, I believe in evolution. But I also believe in a Deity higher than me who had some ideas in mind when the universe came into existence. There are some beautiful things in the way our DNA and the rest of our world is structured, that it’s impossible to not see the hand of a Deity in the mix of that. The world and our universe are very, very, very very old. We have been here (as homo sapiens) for a fraction of that time, and even that has been over 200,000 years. Evolution is a slow burn and there’s proof of it all around us. There is zero scientific proof to show anything but that.

            Now, all the other stuff? I couldn’t care less. Religion is a fool’s game and one that I don’t like playing. It’s divisive, exclusive and has been used throughout history to marginalize and oppress people—all in the name of “God.”

            It’s not your business to tell me what to do. So don’t tell me to “get off my sofa and get into the game.” I’m in the game and I’m very well educated and have plenty of thoughts about a lot of things if you want to discuss them.

          • astimemarcheson

            If someone believed I am going to hell for any reason I would allow them the right to their opinion, not seek take away their right to free speech. As a Christian, I hear nasty things said about Christianity and Christians every day. There is no human right “not to be offended”

          • DJ Salinger

            You don’t understand what “free speech” means. Also, oh boo hoo. Poor Christian in the majority. Your plight is so tough.

          • astimemarcheson

            LOl I am not one complaining about what others have to say, that would be you.
            . you said…”How would you like it if I went around and told you that you were going to hell because you went to church every Sunday and practice prayer in the privacy of your own home?”

          • DJ Salinger

            I’m not complaining about what others have to say. I’m complaining … rather countering the argument that someone’s religion can be used to justify mistreating another person for something of which they are not in control. Example here: their sexual orientation.

            And yes, I did say those words … as a retort to something the person said. Context matters you know.

          • astimemarcheson

            In the Christian faith, the sin is the activity not the “orientation”. A person who has sinful desires is called to overcome temptation and not fall into sin.

          • DJ Salinger

            In the Christian faith. There’s your kicker. It’s not your job to go around doling out opinions on people’s personal behaviors and livelihoods. You have zero obligation to anyone but yourself and your God to live your life how you so choose.

            Again, “in the Christian faith.” Great. Good for the Christian faith. Not everyone follows that though.

          • astimemarcheson

            This IS a discussion about a
            CHRISTIAN PASTOR and his position on homosexuality! So I think this is the place to express my opinions, which I have the same right to do as anyone else.

          • Char Fox

            Thank you for confirming our right to go around doling out opinions on people’s personal behaviors and livelihoods. As You said, we have zero obligation to anyone but ourself and God.

            And our obligation to God is to both love God by being pleasing to Him, and to love others enough that we should at least try and rescue them from hell wherever possible. So you essentially answered the question you’ve been asking.

          • Char Fox

            Then can you educate me as to why any God would create a species specifically designed for procreation and find nothing wrong with overriding that design and using their bodies in a way they felt was more appropriate than the Creators?

            Keep telling myself I’m gonna stop, but I just don’t get some of this new age philosophy.

          • astimemarcheson

            Never mind the “harm” caused by anal sex, I guess you have not heard of the increase in throat cancer due to the HPV virus being spread by oral sex…

          • DJ Salinger

            People can do what they want. Who are you to say otherwise? And what “harm” by anal sex? You do realize that hetero couples have anal sex and oral sex just like homosexual couples do, right? You act as though those two acts are exclusively linked to homosexuality.

            They aren’t.

          • astimemarcheson

            I never said they could not . I am saying it is harmful to practice anal and oral sex, and yes it is harmful for homosexuals and heterosexuals. STIs are more easily transmitted by anal sex, such as HIV, and gonorrhea, According to the CDC STI’s are on the increase mostly among gay men. Then there is physical harm to the anal area by years of such activity resulting in fecal incontinence. To suggest that such abnormal practices are safe is ludicrous. There are reams of information available about the dangers of anal sex, educate yourself.

          • DJ Salinger

            But … I didn’t say anal sex wasn’t harmful. You somehow gleaned “this guy supports anal sex and therefore needs to know how harmful it is even though it’s not relevant to the conversation at all” from my exchange with the person above. That’s on you. You brought that to the discussion. Not me.

            Anal sex is harmful. Sure. For both heterosexual and homosexual couples. However, someone being homosexual is not harming anyone. Which was my original point. I said homosexuality causes no harm to anyone. Which is true.

            Again, you’re making the connection (mostly in your own mind it seems) that homosexuality automatically equals anal sex and therefore, since anal sex is harmful, homosexuality must be as well.

            Quite the leap.

          • ciyelceo1

            i’ve decided not to get involved in this.
            I’m going with what the word says about homosexuality, and i’ve decided love the sinner and hate the sin.
            Good evening.

          • DJ Salinger

            Love the sinner and hate the sin doesn’t work though. But ok. Good for you.

          • ciyelceo1

            ….its been working for me….¯_(ツ)_/¯

          • Char Fox

            Hmmm Christians have no right to dictate what sin is to others but non Christians have the right to tell us whether or not we’re allowed to believe our Bible which tells us to hate sin. Is this part of the intelligent reasoning you mentioned elsewhere?

            Pardon me. But I’ve had a migraine for 3 days now and I needed a good chuckle.

          • DJ Salinger

            It’s like you didn’t even bother to read my comment — or rather, if you did read it, you didn’t bother to comprehend it and think critically about it.

            I’m not saying “non-Christians” have the right to dictate how Christians live or how to believe in the Bible. They absolutely do not have the right to dictate how you should live. However, there’s a tremendous difference between using your fantasy book as a weapon against others who sin and me sitting there watching you yield said weapon. I have an obligation to speak up for those who are being marginalized by Bible-weilding crazy folks.

            It’s called being a decent human.

          • Char Fox

            I understood you just fine, but I also understand your argument isn’t valid. First, I posted a response a bit ago with numerous links to gays suing religious organizations for not conforming to what they want churches to do and believe.

            Secondly is this article itself regarding a church pastor who wants to cater to the gay agenda and throw out the Bible. That disqualifies him as a Biblical leader and makes him a false prophet.

            So again, Christians have no right to dictate what sin is to others but non Christians have the right to tell us whether or not we’re allowed to believe our Bible. And they’ve been fighting tooth and nail to force the church to stop following the Bible, which is what the Christian church is based on.

            Therefore the same people you’re saying Christians are targeting apparently DO have the right to dictate how Christians should live. And if we don’t do what they want, they sue us out of business.

          • Dianne James

            I will do the same…make no more comments on the matter. Love and pray for the sinner.

          • Tree87

            The bible says do not dress like the opposite sex and do not lay down with the same sex! DJ, sounds like you are kicking that liberal Harvard trash. Homosexuality is a sin unto death in the bible and is the same in OT/NT, no excuses for willful sin and transgressing God’s laws.

          • DJ Salinger

            Uh … so when did the Bible get to dictate what people who don’t follow the Bible do with their lives? I guess I missed that part.

            FYI: Your religious text doesn’t determine how everyone should be living their lives, who they are sleeping next to, how they dress.

            “Transgressing God’s laws?” Get out of here with that. God’s laws only effect those who follow his doctrine. You don’t have the right to push that onto other people. Get it?

          • Tree87

            If you are an ATHEIST you should not even be here making any argument. You don’t believe in the spook god. You have said in your heart there is no God…

          • DJ Salinger

            Where did I say I was an Atheist? … You need to re-read my comment.

          • Clay

            No God’s Law is for God’s universe which this is. Whether you accept it or not is not the issue. It does not change its relevance. You see the God that you deny, also gave you the free will to deny him. But rest assured, “God is not mocked, for in due season you will reap what you sow. Just because you do not follow it has nothing to do with whether it is relevant or not.

          • DJ Salinger

            This isn’t God’s universe. It doesn’t have an owner and we are just a mere grain of sand in the desert of our universe. We are a mere MILLISECOND in the time of the universe and are lucky to even be here.

            And relevant to whom, exactly? Only His followers, right? Or those who believe. I’ll ask this again since NOBODY on this website seems to be able to answer it:

            Why is it YOUR place to tell other people who they can and can’t sleep with in the privacy of their own bedrooms? Why do you care? What does it matter to you?

          • Wayne Verret

            DJ – This is God’s universe. Colossians 1:15 He (Jesus) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. DJ – you must know that God does not discriminate against the homosexual : Paul speaks this in 1 Corinthians 6: 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. DJ – Notice here that Paul says that some of the Believers in the Corinthian Church were changed: 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. DJ – So while the entire list of people above were in sin, it is possible and quite honestly imperative that one changes his thinking and position on sin. I hope this helps DJ. God’s word challenges all of us on the earth, all the time. Blessings to you.

          • DJ Salinger

            Dude … ok. Fair enough from your standpoint … BUT—Please … PLEASE answer me this: Why is it your religion that gets to be the way of the world? Why is it Christianity that gets to dictate how I should live my life? You don’t have ANY say in what I do or how I live my life. Leave well enough alone and mind your own damn business.

            Nobody … and I mean NOBODY has answered that question for me. Why is it your responsibility to tell me how to live my life according to your standards?

          • Wayne Verret

            DJ – Sorry, Christian scripture does not order me to convince you. I can’t do that. All I am required to do is to share what the Bible says. If you don’t get it, not my problem. The Apostles asked Jesus why He spoke to many followers in parables. His answer was that “understanding” was give to some and not to others (Mathew 13:11-17) In fact, scripture says that none of us do good nor seek after God on our own. (Romans 3:10-11) And that we have all sinned (me too) and fall short of His standard (Romans 3:23) And for sinning we earn spiritual death – according to Christian scripture (Romans 6:23) As spiritually dead men, we can do nothing – according to Christian scripture. To become spiritually alive again, God the Father must first draw us near to Him, (John 6:44) since we can’t do that ourselves. He then must make us alive from spiritual death (Eph 2:1) and cause us to believe (John 6:29) since we will not on our own have faith (Romans 3:10-11). He then leads us to having changed thinking (Romans 2:4) since we will always be tempted to do wrong. The best news of all is that He who began all these good works in us, with be faithful to keep us until the end. (Philippians 1:6). The Father is very busy in Romans Chapter 9 making us either vessels unto honor or unto dishonor. DJ – let us get back to the article. Since TD Jakes is a “Christian” minister, he has to live by the “Christian” standard and the Bible. So, in the previous paragraph, my argument against TD’s statements, is that he is violating the Word of God (that he claims to follow) in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11. I am out DJ – good luck sir!

          • Mzs Pebbles

            Wayne I agree, why cast your peals to swines….we are in a world of lawlessness and everybody wants to do his and her own thing nobody wants to be accountable anymore and we are living prophecy where Good is considered bad and bad is considered good. We can only Pray for the lost for God said in his word that if he did not shorten the time that even the very elect would be fooled and we are seeing his people become fooled by this presents worlds way of doing things…..crazy nevertheless my brethen appreciate your words of wisdom…lets continue to pray for the lost.

          • Wayne Verret

            CALLING GOOD EVIL AND EVIL GOOD

            The only possessions we have and will last are kept above where
            neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break
            through nor steal (Mt 6:20). I agree with you that in this world we all
            naturally won’t do any good not seek after God (Rm 3:10-11). This is of course “spiritual” good. As for as “good” being called “bad” and “bad” “good”, consider the story of Joseph (Gen 37-50). We see his brothers doing an evil (bad) thing by selling Joseph into slavery and then lied about it to their father Jacob. (this is the nature of fallen man) You know the story. Later when his brothers come to Egypt because of the famine, Joseph eventually reveals himself to them. (the Lord
            kept Joseph’s integrity through the whole thing) Then they all move to Egypt. When their father Jacob dies, Joseph’s brothers are afraid that Joseph will now take revenge. The brothers seek mercy from Joseph. But Joseph says (Gen 50:19-21) “19…..“Do not be afraid, for am I in the place of God? 20 But as for you, you meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, in order to bring it about as it is this day, to save many people alive. 21 Now therefore, do not be afraid; I will provide for you and your little ones.” And he comforted them and spoke kindly to them. (what you meant for evil (bad) God meant it for good) In contrast, consider what Jesus said in Mathew 7:21-23 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’. WOW!! Prophesying, casting out demons, doing many wonders in His name – lawlessness??? What appears to be good is rejected by Christ, and considered bad! So, now whenever I see anything that appears to be
            good or bad, not only do I have to call it good or bad, but now have to ask the Lord if He is in it or not. I cannot lean on my own understanding as the scripture says in Proverbs 3:5, but must trust in the Lord with all my heart. The only reason the elect are not deceived is because we belong to Christ and are no longer our own (1 Cor 6:19). We have been bought with a price (1 Cor 6:20). That which Christ possesses will not be lost, but will be raised up at the last day (John 6:39). If there are some that are being fooled, then I would
            submit that they are not the possession of Christ. Whenever I hear someone, with my natural ears, cursing and blaspheming the name of God, I see someone, with my spiritual eyes, crying out for the need of God in their lives. Can the Lord use TD Jakes? He can do things in ways that we don’t understand (Isa 55:8). And finally, let’s pray for each other and the saved too! Remember, we can quote all the verses in the Bible from Genesis through Revelation. But if we have
            not the love of Christ in us first, it’s for nothing (1 Cor 13:1-3).

          • Tom Cook

            Actually, Jacob died after they got to Egypt.

          • Hairpants

            By telling someone to “leave well enough alone and mind your own damn business” you are dictating to to others how they should run there lives as well. Why should anybody obey you? What if I don’t want to mind my own business? This is the lifestyle that I have chosen . Don’t be a hypocrite.

          • Char Fox

            This might sound like a question but the answer to your question is this:

            When growing up, why is it your parents got to dictate how you should live your life? You didn’t have ANY say in what you did or how you lived your life.

            I can name two reasons at least.

            A) They loved you and wanted what was best for you.
            B) They wanted to instill their moral values in you.

            How many hate their parents who loved them for wanting them to follow their example?

          • Char Fox

            Sorry, there’s also another side to your question. You said “Why is it your responsibility to tell me how to live my life according to your standards?”

            Should anyone be allowed to tell you where you can or can’t stand? Just like your question above, you perhaps think no. They aren’t responsible for telling you how to live or where to stand.

            Now let’s say you’re standing in front of a moving bus and don’t see it coming. Now should anyone be allowed to tell you where you can or can’t stand? Should they tell you that you should move? Doesn’t it become a moral responsibility to inform you you’re about to be run over if you don’t move?

            Now, “Why is it your responsibility to tell me how to live my life according to your standards?” Since Christians believe that a sinner shall not see the Kingdom of God and God will cast those into hell, wouldn’t it therefore, in the eyes of God, be their responsibility to tell you you’re about to be hit by a bus if you don’t change where you stand? That’s why.

          • TruGalt

            What a complete fool you are.

          • DJ Salinger

            At least I don’t believe in fairy tales.

          • jorgelm123

            You will when you kneel before His throne one day!!

          • DJ Salinger

            Ok buddy. whatever you say.

          • blake kersey

            Why are you even here then? “At least I don’t believe in fairytales” lol talk about an idiotic statement.

          • Ayabonga Nkohliso

            Brother. Allow me to object. Your opening sentence is so ignorant and ‘narcissist’ to an extent. Forgive me for being 7 months late. But I found offence in that oblivion of your flawed understanding. I mean not to insult you, but please forgive me; who do you think you are, literally? Where do you come from? SO you assume everything is as it is spontaneously? It just happened? Think again, brother. You may not follow God or Jesus, but that will not change the fact that He is God. That will not the fact that His Son, Jesus Christ, my Lord and Saviour is King. Do not be misled, brother.

          • DJ Salinger

            That’s all well and good for you, sir. Or brother. Or friend. Or person. However, you don’t have the right to tell me what to believe no more than I do to you.

            I don’t have to believe what you believe. You don’t have to believe what I believe.

            And by my opening sentence, I assume you’re talking about how I referenced the 41,000 denominations that exist in this world? What’s narcissistic about facts? I’m not lying about them. There are literally 41,000 denominations of Christianity alone — so I fail to see how my sentence was “ignorant.”

            You can think I’m being misled, and I can think you’re following a sky fairy … but at the end of the day, my time on earth is my time on earth. You are under no obligation to tell me that I’m doing wrong or that I’m not worshiping the right way. As a matter of fact, talk about ignorant and narcissistic … thinking that YOU can tell me what to do or how to believe is just that. Narcissism.

          • Hairpants

            By telling somebody they don’t have the right to…(fill in the blank) is telling them what to believe. Can’t you see the contradiction in your statement?

          • DJ Salinger

            No contradiction. I’m not telling anyone what to believe. I’m telling them that they don’t have the right to use their religion as a weapon against others. There are literally laws against it. So …. I’m not wrong.

          • Char Fox

            There’ve been laws that were changed because they were later judged wrong, so being a law doesn’t declare it’s not wrong.

          • Char Fox

            You’re right, you don’t have to believe, and no one can make you believe. But if a Christian fails to share the Gospel and tell you that there is a hell for unbelievers, he is answerable to God for his own action or inaction on judgment day. This is why a Christian speaks of sin. They know what God says about hell and they don’t want anyone to spend eternity there, they know what Jesus says about preaching the Gospel and want to please Him, they know that a believer led astray needs to be aware of a wrong path they’re taking or they’re just as guilty by sitting idly by and saying nothing.

            These are reasons why they have not a right, but an “obligation” to tell you of their belief.

            If you truly believe they’re following a sky fairy and fear their eternity is at stake, wouldn’t you want to warn them? Or would you not care what happened to them?

            At first I thought I was speaking to a believer who was as misguided as Jakes is. When I realized that wasn’t the case, I explained several reasons why a Christian frowns on sin.

            At this point I’m only going to make one final statement then try saying nothing further because I think I’ve covered all I can.

            If you’re comfortable in your belief, then this won’t sway you and indeed nothing will. But if there’s any chance otherwise…

            Romans 1: 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse….

            People either believe in God or they don’t. If you don’t, how do you believe the earth was created? Big boom? A massive explosion of nothingness from nothingness that created a lot of something? A random explosion that created not only a planet, but one capable of sustaining life, gravitationally positioned between a sun and moon with gravitational pull to keep us grounded, water and vegetation to sustain that life, but then actually created not just that life but many forms of it, including intelligence?

            If you don’t go in for the big bang theory but believe in a creator of some type, which creator would you accept above the longest known creator? If Christianity is mass hysteria, how has it lasted over 2,000 years, with BC Scripture foretelling of a coming savior long before that? How is it that so many OT prophesies of particular wars and events came to pass long after they were written? How is it Christ’s prophesies of Himself being so hated are true? How is it several eyewitness accounts of Christ were recorded (albeit from their own recollection and vantage point) but having themselves witnessed it?

            All questions anyone professing unbelief should not be afraid to examine. If they find the questions ludicrous then no, nothing one could say would sway them, so nothing more needs said. But I at least know why I believe and why, even though told some wouldn’t believe, I still find it incredulous that they don’t. But I’m going to further focus on the article and beliefs like that of Jakes’ that are worming their way into the church. Good luck to you.

          • Tom Cook

            If God created the world, (which he did) than it is his. Your rejection of him and his authority, does not affect his authority, it only affects your fate.

          • bouncy

            Lovely well said

          • Ayabonga Nkohliso

            Beautiful, Clay. Just like the people who deny the existence of Jesus Christ. Just because they do not acknowledge Him, or they do not believe in Him, does not mean He is not Alive. It simply means they are stubborn and ignorant.

          • goldknight1

            shhhhh….stop using logic.

          • blake kersey

            When did he start?

          • Tom Cook

            When those “other people” push and force their “perversions” onto other people, (often forcibly), it is time to step in and stop it. That is not neccessarily a “right”, but rather an obligation., protecting those weaker than themselves.

          • Char Fox

            I’m sorry but I fail to understand why you care about what Christians think of people who don’t follow the Bible in relation to a man claiming to do so while teaching heresy? Isn’t that what the whole discussion is about? A professed Christian saying you can be gay and still be ok with the church?

            From the way you initially presented yourself, you seemed to be a believer. But from your last statement it’s crystal clear you aren’t, so I hope others will waste no more time trying to show you the error in your thinking. Its like the wolf in sheep’s clothing. Why did you not state up front you weren’t a believer? And if you ask why I say you aren’t. I don’t. You did.

            “Your” (for emphasis – yours, not mine) “religious text doesn’t determine how everyone should be living their lives”

          • Char Fox

            Umm isn’t this discussion about people who do, or SAY they do, follow the Bible? That’s why the Bible gets to dictate on this topic about Jake’s beliefs. If you say you’re a Christian but not following Christ’s words, then you’re a liar and the truth is not in you.

          • John Anthony Schultz

            Is “Homosexual Orientation” a worse sin than say, “Pedophilia”, or “Hetero-Adultery”, or “Theft”, or “Murder”?
            I just need a straight “YES”, or “NO”, please. ………
            And before you try & use the usual cliched dismissal, I will go on record as identifying as a 1,000% Hetero-Cis-Male. ….
            Ok, now, YES, or NO? ……
            ROAMNS 3:10. …. ROAMNS 3:23

          • Dianne James

            Isn’t this what gay men do? so..if sodomy was against the law…..what’s the difference? Sodomy is generally anal or oral sex between people or sexual activity between a person and a non-human animal (bestiality), but may also include any non-procreative sexual activity. Originally the term sodomy, which is derived from the story of Sodom and Gomorrah in chapters 18 and 19 of the Book of Genesis in the Bible, was commonly restricted to anal sex.

          • DJ Salinger

            Gay men only engage in sodomy??? Yes. That must be it. And heterosexual couples only engage in penis-to-vagina sex—in the missionary position. Get out of here with that nonsense.

            Sodomy may have been against the law but so what? Why does it matter to you? Nobody’s forcing you to have sodomy with another person? Why are you SO concerned with what people do with their private parts?

          • Dianne James

            God wants His children to care about others and make moral judgements….actually, the Bible commands Christians to do this. The old testament tells us to warn those that practice wicked things to turn from their evil ways

          • writebrain

            Christians really hate the butt sex. 😱

          • Tom Cook

            However, homosexuals are very often predatory, not passive. Just allowing them to do whatever they want is irresponsible.

          • Char Fox

            This is exactly why several here keep saying to people “read your Bible.” 🙁 People attend church once a week at best and think they know Scripture but it takes more than Sunday.

            You said: “Homosexuality was not “against the law.” Sodomy was.”

            While we’re no longer under the law, but under grace IF we repented, repentance is turning from sin. So if we’re still believing it’s ok to sin, then we’re not repentant.

            God gave the law. And what does Scripture say about it?

            Romans 1:27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. 

            That’s not sodomy. It’s perfectly clear cut homosexuality.

            What’s wrong with him is he’s doing what Scripture tells him to do:

            Galatians 6:1 Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently.

          • Char Fox

            Are you referring to man made laws or what Jesus called sin?

          • John Anthony Schultz

            Is “Homosexual Orientation” a worse sin than say, “Pedophilia”, or “Hetero-Adultery”, or “Theft”, or “Murder”?
            I just need a straight “YES”, or “NO”, please. ……….
            And before you try & use the usual cliched dismissal, I will go on record as identifying as a 1,000% Hetero-Cis-Male. ….
            Ok, now, YES, or NO? ……
            ROAMNS 3:10. …. ROAMNS 3:23

          • Char Fox

            “Homosexuality does harm! Who do you think brought aids into the country? ”

            Romans 1:27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

            The part not understood by those who truly don’t understand God is that ALL sin hurts Him. So it does indeed hurt someone, it’s just someone they sadly don’t revere.

          • Glenn Ward

            Not in the Muslim arena. Their

            Prophet

            was a pedophiliac

          • DJ Salinger

            Since religion does not equal law, your analogy makes zero sense. Paedophilia is against the law regardless of your religious preference.

          • FedUp

            Although adultery is a misdemeanor in most of the states with laws against it, some — including Michigan and Wisconsin — categorize the offense as a felony. Punishments vary widely by state. In Maryland, the penalty is a paltry $10 fine. But in Massachusetts, an adulterer could face up to three years in jail.Apr 17, 2014

          • DJ Salinger

            Uh … cool story. What’s your point?

          • Tom Cook

            Hmmm, homosexuality does no harm to anyone? Obviously you know nothing about the topic, or you would not make such an uninformed statement. It leaves a permanent scar on the victim, if they are still alive.

          • Curt Diggs

            Matthew 19:4… 1 Corinthians 5:12-13. Why… you’d THINK Jesus was talking to YOU and ME! Does God’s Word, “evolve”? I speak this to YOUR Shame (1 Corinthians 15:34).

          • Tom Cook

            “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”. Yes even you.

          • Watchman on the Wall

            It wasn’t to God. Check your scriptures.

          • Extreme? How so?

          • Char Fox

            Did God distinguish a difference?

          • MoeY

            It is closer than we realize. There are some groups that want pedophilia protected. Transgender restrooms are another sign of the end times, in my opinion. Look up, our redemption draweth nigh.

          • Char Fox

            “There are some groups that want pedophilia protected.”

            Yup. But those for it will swear you’re wrong.

          • Glenn Ward

            My sins I commit are no less or greater than the ones done by the LGBT or any sexual deviant people. I just don’t want everyone to ACCEPT or CELEBRATE my sins!

          • DJ Salinger

            It’s not your place to determine that those people are sinning though. You have absolutely ZERO say over what is a sin for those people. Your religion is not the religion of all and therefore not one that everyone needs to be following. We are not a theocracy.

          • Clay

            I am not saying what I say, I am telling you what God says. Will you deny that scripture states that homosexuality is an abomination before GOD???

          • DJ Salinger

            I won’t deny it … but again why does your Christian religion get to say what’s right or wrong for people? That’s the question I keep asking on here that NOBODY seems to want to answer.

            We are not a theocracy. All are not required to follow a certain religion endorsed by the government. So … I still fail to see how it’s YOUR place to tell others that they are living in sin. Worry about yourself.

          • sherry1053

            If you are living in sin…you better get right with God…or get saved first..then get right with God! We are all sinners saved by grace…if we live in sin…we are going to hell

          • AaTaRee

            If you don’t think a LGBT Christian is living in sin, consider reading Romans 1.

          • DJ Salinger

            If you think your religion gets to dictate how other people in the United States live their lives, you need to consult a history and government book.

          • Iamionis

            Amen!

          • Watchman on the Wall

            That’s an ineffective argument when you view it in light of the scriptures. We are to judge rightly peoples fruits. We are to bring believers under correction for sins within the body. The scriptures bear this out and even give us the process to do this. Too many people hiding behind the “judge not” quote without understanding its context. This live and let live attitude is what has opened the door to so much world getting into the body of Christ. It is almost impossible, now, to tell the difference between the world and the body of Christ in America. Why would any sinner want to be a part of a body that is just as riddled with sin as the world they are in.

          • DJ Salinger

            Nope. That’s not your “right” to do that. You don’t get to force your religious will onto another living person. Sorry. That’s not how it works.

          • Kelly Corbin

            It doesn’t matter what you think…it only matters what God thinks and what the Bible says…and I love it when people use the scripture about judging, they only use it to silence people from telling the truth! And the truth is that sin is to be called what it is and if a brother is sinning then he needs to be called into accountability…if he refuses to listen then he will be judged by God..

          • Tom Cook

            “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”. So yes they are living in sin, just as you are. It should not be hidden.

          • Char Fox

            God’s the King. He already cast judgment. If you chose not to believe that, I can only feel sorry for you. He judged homosexuality a sin. If we’re willing to take Him at at His Word and believe He sent Christ to die for our sins, then we will know it’s a sin and show true repentance of it.

            If we don’t believe this, you’re right, why even care what a church accepts. Especially if we’re talking a church building rather than the Church of Christ…THE church, God’s people? Because the former can be just a building of lost souls. The latter are those that believe and do care, about the real church.

      • bamaclt

        Maybe you should read Acts and Romans.

        • DJ Salinger

          Maybe you shouldn’t use your religious text to tell others what to do or how to live their lives.

          • bamaclt

            Your quarrel is with science, not religion. More specifically, XX and XY. Only when the two mate do we further the species. XX + XY = children. XX + XX and XY + XY = stalemate. If you want to live in a feelings first bubble, driven by emotion and fantasy, so be it. My religious beliefs do not agree, but my God also tells me to love my neighbors and enemies. So, have a blessed day.

          • DJ Salinger

            I think you totally misunderstand what I’m saying here. I don’t quarrel with science. You’re building up a nice straw man for yourself there though by mentioning the XX and XY nature of procreation—which I never said ANYTHING about.

      • Kaleb

        I wanted to say. I have no right to tell you how to live. I probably agree with you in the fact that people should be able to live how they desire as long as it brings no harm to others. Christians can be masters at thinking that they have it all down perfectly. We argue amongst ourselves and whoever doesn’t agree and affirm my position and beliefs is an idiot. I have been guilty of this in the past. Now I just have a passion to share Jesus. I believe that I get to share his love and kindness and that his spirit convicts us on sin and righteousness.

        In other words I don’t have to be right anymore. The Bible says paraphrase, if you love the Lord with all of your heart, soul, and mind and love others that you will be following the law.

        To me that is great news. My job as a Christian is simple then. Of course if I have a concern about a fellow believers actions I will express that to him. But that doesn’t mean that I have it down perfectly. We should support each other in our growth.

        It seems to me unless I am mistaken that you want to believe but hate what you see and hear from Christians. I say , judge Christianity from Jesus’s actions he is the standard. I personally apologize for actions of the church and say that we should focus more on representing Christ.
        I hope you find my note helpful.

      • Kelly Corbin

        The BIBLE defines how a Christian is to live….you don’t need any “essential doctrines”…Homosexuality is an abomination in God’s sight! Case Closed!

      • MDK66

        Just to clarify, denominationalism did not begin until after Protestantism began. They will always splinter into more and more denominations because even with 40,000 denominations, people will disagree on this point or that. Prior to the 16th century, there were the Eastern Orthodox churches and the Catholic Church. Prior to the great schism of the Eastern churches from the Catholic Church, there was only the Catholic Church. Jesus founded only one Church, not many, on Peter and the apostles. The oldest written record we have of it being called Catholic comes from a student of the apostle John, Saint Ignatius of Antioch. History shows the Catholic Church to be the one, true Church.

      • Tom Cook

        That would be fine, if he was not “leading people” astray.

      • Char Fox

        There’s ONE essential doctrine to be a Christian. REPENT. Repent is to turn away from sin, and homosexuality is a clearly defined sin throughout Scripture.

      • Char Fox

        Denominations that follow the Bible all believe Jesus said to repent and that sin isn’t ok. Denominations form over whether baptism is required, speaking in tongues, head coverings, women teaching, dress codes, raising hands, music preferences, foot washing, etc.

        If they don’t repent however, they aren’t a Christian denomination, as Christian is to follow Christ.

  • MinisterKarl

    ALL the churches will be led by satan, it is foretold in scripture…. the church is spiritually the most dangerous places on earth. Trust your bible alone. Judgement has started in the churches, the ‘holy place’ spoken of. In matthew 24 GOD tells you they will preach of a counterfeit jesus,, in each and every church, to test believers. Trust GODs word the holy bible and stop worshipping the churches and their leaders…td jakes is no different… God says No church is spared by satan rule! The true church of God is invisible, it is the body of believers, the ones saved by Jesus Christ, Amen read more and join in fellowship at godsaveme2 com

  • Dude

    False prophet glutenous piece of trash right here folks

    • DJ Salinger

      How very tolerant and Christ-like of you to say that.

      • Dude

        Let’s see what Jesus Christ has to say on the matter ..

        Matthew 7:15-20

        15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

        • DJ Salinger

          Hmm … let’s see what Jesus Christ has to say on the matter …

          Matthew 7:1-5elpful Not Helpful

          “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.

          James 4:11-12

          Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

          • Dude

            I’m glad that you are reading The Bible ..It’s too bad you don’t understand It .

            Romans 16:17 — 17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

            John 7:24 — 24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

            1 Corinthians 6:2-3 — 1 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
            3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

            You see , I actually know what I’m talking about .. I didn’t have to run to google to find These Verses like you did ..

          • Bill Charlton

            Brother, you did provide valuable scriptural insight, but I would encourage a spirit of meekness and humility. If the Creator of the Universe could humble Himself before those He created, then certainly we could do the same before one another.

          • Dude

            You’re right . I need to work on that .pray for me

          • DJ Salinger

            Awww. Someone’s going to tough talk the Bible to me. Get real, dude.

            I actually know what I’m talking about, too. And bigotry and judgement is still bigotry and judgement regardless of what religion you assign it to.

          • Dude

            I’m marking false prophet heretics . I wont stop

          • beachcombert

            You can find individual verses of Scripture to support any type of hate and discrimination that you like. But if you read the Gospel as a whole (not just Paul’s very limited interpretation of it), you find Jesus telling the Pharisees and the rest of us to get over our self-righteousness and leave the judging to God. Pay attention to context. The Scriptures were written centuries before humans had any clear understanding of orientation, which exists on a spectrum — not simply gay, straight or bi. Very few of us are 100 percent gay or 100 percent straight. Ponder that and think about why God created us that way. Many of the once-powerful ex-gay ministries have now confessed that were mistaken and they injured people. Bishop Jakes seems to be “evolving” in the same direction. I pray more people repent of the hatred that they try to disguise as following God’s will. We have the Two Greatest Commandments and if we can focus on those, it won’t upset us if Adam and Steve fall in love, just as Jonathan and David loved each other.

          • Lee Miller

            While I believe love the sinner, hate the sin, You can not say some are half gay, some are all gay. We all were born into sin, saying that god made us this way( homosexual) is wrong! Its sin! Trying to cover it up will not work. Now the problem here is people trying to tell you, you are a sinner. That is not up to us. That is between you and God! Our place is to love all men, teach the word of God. Then let you decide should You go to heaven or hell! End of story, no evolution.

          • Bill Charlton

            Yes, these are good points that must be considered, but when a teacher of God’s Word begins teaching that something is okay that is very clearly sin, then we are to follow the Apostle’s instructions to Timothy to “…rebuke… with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth…” (2 Timothy 4).

            BUT, as a warning to others, when a leader in the Church does begin denying the authority of God’s Word (even in just one area), it is a such serious matter as many people’s eternal live’s are at stake, so simply arrogantly casting condemnation upon them might make YOU feel superior, but it’s only aiding the enemy. How about humbly rebuking with spiritual correction and praying for him on a regular basis (I’ve just added him to my regular list)? He has a LOT of people in his audience, so you may be helping to save a LOT more people!

  • DJ Salinger

    One look at this comment section and it’s quite clear not a single person on here is following the prescribed guidelines above.

    “engage in reasonable discussion about matters affecting our nation and our world” Oh yeah. Full of reasonable discussion.

    “Laodicea-esque televangelist who’s more invested in selling his latest book series”
    “What a compromising fool he is. A Charlatan. A false teacher.”
    “False prophet glutenous piece of trash right here folks”

    • AckbarSays

      It is perfectly reasonable to call a charlatan a charlatan.

    • Peter Coburn

      That’s because the “prescribed guidelines” above are heretical for Christians, let me spell it out for you DJ, homosexuality is “an abomination” (sin) to God. (his own words, not merely an opinion) TD Jakes or any other mortal man has NO RIGHT to defy the immortal immutable almighty GOD of the universe. There’s a Biblical precedent set by the Lord Jesus Christ, he was always under the authority of the Father, you must be under authority to have the authority of Heaven. TD Jakes just relinquished all authority (if he ever had any) to speak for God by choosing another master to be his LORD. He chose public opinion to be his LORD, not Jesus Christ.

  • AckbarSays

    TD Jakes, you ARE the weakest link. Goodbye!

  • storie

    If he really said all that, in that context, then I’m afraid I can’t listen to him anymore. That is scary.

  • Penal prince

    Luv Jakes but can’t agree with that position. Evolving or not.

  • Apostle Sam Martin

    This nation was not created for the Christian values or views but Christianity was brought here. It was not in perfection that Christianity came other wise people would have fought for there to never to have had slavery, that’s not Christian. This nation have become a place of freedom and everyone has their right to exist but with respect of their neighbors regardless what they may be. To the church; Bro. Thomas is right, let them worship where they might be comfortable. It might not be my house or his but somewhere there is a preacher that has lived that lifestyle, & he will not pass judgement on them & treat them fairly bc he understands the fight they face. What a nation does is not what a church or God does. I do differ with the notion, of what the church is. The church is & should be a portal of the Kingdom of God where His citizens come to learn & gain that we might support one another h learn of the mercies of our Father from the leadership & elders entrusted to teach those that desire to be of his way & be acceptable citizens of His Kingdom even as we live in this realm. Our Father who art in heaven does not live here on this earth yet he does live in us that have proclaimed his son as Lord and him a Jehovah as Father their father. Politically, I agree with Bro. Thomas, that we should not elect officials based on religious values, because I doubt that we would have elected our fore-fathers to office had it been based on religion. I respect my neighbor that is Muslim or Catholic or whatever even the separatists that dislike me because I’m black. I’m not a bad person because I’m black & if one was drowning I would save him that he in his twisted & from my view demented perspectives would be enlighten that his upbringing & teachings have been significantly flawed. Maybe he will se the Jesus in me & change his tormenting ways bUT he is as worth life as long as he isn’t trying 2 take one. Yes the world is changing but in this change good can come. Even though I myself am not gay by sexuality I am happy to meet those that are & I don’t hate them nor do I preach wagging a bible to make them turn from there ways, I try to do that with my life. I hope to be a living example of Christ that they will want & convert from what they have converted to. None of use have lived a perfect life & noneof us are without being fairly stoned but if we walk right & talk right &life what we walk & talk then maybe someone will follow you out of where they are or have been. Gays do things that are distasteful to me but so do some of my Black people, Asians, Whites & Latin fellow citizens. No of use are perfect, from the front of the church to the back. None are without a past, neither is Christianity, neither am I nor are you. We all that were not Jews disn’t hAve a chance at everlastinglife, until, Jesus died for us ALL. We were to be slaughtered because, we did have an advocate. So, the path of hope we have we a killer of us, considered heathens, unholy & unrighteousness & unworthy. So go figure. I don’t agree with Bro. Jakes because of who he is but because he is right about the things that he is right on. Jehovah is not about to take him down, just because some of you don’t agree with him. If you stop supporting him a thousand will replace you because he speaks truth & life to the lifeless & hope to those without hope & helps those that feel helpless. He ministers to them that need what he believes. As his views change with greater wisdom so will the hearts of those that esteem his teaching. He is a great man from awesome struggles of his own. Don’t judge him judge yourself & maybe some day they will interview you with something worth hearing. You are some body now, but what does your some body do for somebody looking for hope. If your cursing him your cursing yourself; because you didn’t make him nor did you put him where he is. I hope there is something to be learned from all this harsh talk about a man that hope greater for you than you do for yourself…

    • Sjou Marten

      Sonny Marten to Sam Martin
      You are incorrect, this Nation was founded as a Christian Nation, laws were enacted, Courts showed in countless cases this is what the First Amendment was about, which was that no one religion would rule America like in England at the time, or sort of ruled. The United States Suprement Court in 1963 in case of School District of Abington Township v. Schempp states Secularism is unconstitutional prefering those who do not believe over those who do believe…it is the duty of government to deter nonbelief religions….facilities of government cannot offend religious principles. Additionally, the constitutions of the first 13 states wrote you had to be Christian to be in office….this is all based upon the ideal that morality keeps a government prosperous and free…..

      • Bob Johnson

        This is the first time I have heard this interpretation of Abington School District v Schempp, could you please provide sources for this view of the case?

      • TheKingOfRhye

        “Abington Township v. Schempp states Secularism is unconstitutional’

        No, it doesn’t. It states that public-school-sponsored Bible readings are unconstitutional.

        “the constitutions of the first 13 states wrote you had to be Christian to be in office”

        The “No Religious Test Clause” of the US Constitution, along with the incorporation of the 1st Amendment, means those are unconstitutional.

  • mjdubb0811

    “The church should have the right to have its own convictions and values; if you don’t like those convictions and values [and] you totally disagree with it, don’t try to change my house, move into your own … and find somebody who gets what you get about faith.” Based on that statement It’s like he’s saying go find a church that believes and affirms your gay life style because you won’t find it at the Potters House.

  • Min Terrance Powell

    If those are the things that Jakes said, then he actually spoke what God has said in the word. The world will do what it wants even if it against His wishes. I agree that Homosexuals should go to where their lifestyle is accepted. BECAUSE THE ONE TRUE LIVING GOD ISN’T THE ONE!!!1

  • He said, “The church should have the right to have its own convictions and values…” Hmm, I’m thinking the church should align itself with the Word, or consider changing the name to – I May or May Not Have a Problem, If I Do I’m ok With it Anonymous. Where Fluffer Nutter is served on Sundays.

  • Roxy Wade

    He has been a FALSE teacher for a long time!!! NOTHING has changed!!! Godless false teaching!!!

  • Sandra Greer Phillips

    Gays ought to be able to attend churches where they are not treated like pariahs. They should be able to deal with their sins on their own in the confines of the church like anyone else. They should not feel unworthy to hear the word of God nor should the word of God be altered to accommodate them.

    • Les Mcc

      why don’t we just say “sinners ought to be able to attend churches where they are not treated like pariahs”!? because that’s what we all are. maybe the difference is that some of us are sorry for our sin-not running around flaunting it and celebrating it. If the church starts doing that…God help us.

  • chiboy773

    An people still listen to this fool. Folks worship their pastor and not the bible

  • Nick25

    We are in The Great Falling Away. There is not ONE place in the bible that even hints homosexuality is acceptable. God does not “evolve.” His truths are everlasting and universal. TD will have a lot to answer for at his death- he’ll be responsible for many, many souls ending up in hell.

    This is terrible.

    • DJ Salinger

      God doesn’t evolve. Except for the thousands of times where the Bible was reinterpreted and re-written by mankind. But yeah, definitely has never evolved.

      • Nick25

        God does not change- The Bible is the inerrant word of God. That’s a fact.

        • matthew

          That’s an interpretation of a belief.

          • Nick25

            It’s a fact.

          • matthew

            Thanks for clarifying

          • Nick25

            No problem- it’s my job 🙂

      • Amos Moses

        Dramatically, when the Bible manuscripts are compared to other ancient writings, they stand alone as the best-preserved literary works of all antiquity. Remarkably, there are thousands of existing Old Testament manuscripts and fragments copied throughout the Middle East, Mediterranean and European regions that agree phenomenally with each other. In addition, these texts substantially agree with the Septuagint version of the Old Testament, which was translated from Hebrew to Greek some time during the 3rd century BC. The Dead Sea Scrolls, discovered in Israel in the 1940’s and 50’s, also provide astounding evidence for the reliability of the ancient transmission of the Jewish Scriptures (Old Testament) in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd centuries BC.

        The manuscript evidence for the “New Testament” is also dramatic, with nearly 25,000 ancient manuscripts discovered and archived so far, at least 5,600 of which are copies and fragments in the original Greek. 4 Some manuscript texts date to the early second and third centuries, with the time between the original autographs and our earliest existing fragment being a remarkably short 40-60 years.

        Interestingly, this manuscript evidence far surpasses the manuscript reliability of other ancient writings that we trust as authentic every day. Look at these comparisons: Julius Caesar’s The Gallic Wars (10 manuscripts remain, with the earliest one dating to 1,000 years after the original autograph); Pliny the Younger’s Natural History (7 manuscripts; 750 years elapsed); Thucydides’ History (8 manuscripts; 1,300 years elapsed); Herodotus’ History (8 manuscripts; 1,350 years elapsed); Plato (7 manuscripts; 1,300 years); and Tacitus’ Annals (20 manuscripts; 1,000 years).

      • writebrain

        These people want to tell me that the true and living, all seeing and all powerful God Of The Universe, who created stars, the Earth, etc., draws a line in the sand on butt sex? Hahahahahahahahaha!

  • mariner

    He is the epitamy of 2 tim 4:1-4 a false teacher tickling the ears of those that can’t endure sound doctrine. There will be a speacial place in hell for this man.

  • Joan Rogers

    We Born Again Believers abiding in Christ are the Church/Bride of Christ. God is Holy and He warns not to add to His Word or take away from His Word.
    If a Pastor has his own set of beliefs and values apart from God’s Word..He does not know God or His Word. Is not led of Holy Spirit.
    I agree that all sinners go to church, but to learn the truth of the Word of God and to receive Christ as Lord,
    Repenting and confessing to God , being forgiven by God, To Repent Luke13:3 is to turn away from sin to God Once God forgives you, you do not go back and commit the sin again.
    Let me say this…Christ is coming for a pure and spotless Bride not a whore.
    No sin abides in Christ. We saints of God abide in Christ (2 masters God and the devil 1John3:6-10)
    This is Apostasy, rejecting the authority of the Word of God. Putting oneself above God and His Word.
    We are in the last days…You either are with God or against God. Either you are Hot or Cold, the Hot is with Our Lord, the cold are going to hell. the lukewarm…they believe but do not obey the Word of God and God will spew them out. beware…tickling the ears of lost sinners , you grieve Holy Spirit.
    The Church is not about color, Race. It is spiritual. What gospel is he teachubg? Seer JoanR

  • Ron Townson

    Just another ignorant nygar showing his stupidity. Kinda ugly too!

    • DJ Salinger

      Just another so-called Christian showing their tolerance. Speaking of ugly, someone should smack the doctor who delivered you.

  • tolive

    The Word of God is clear, it doesn’t progress or evolve. When you hear those two words you pretty much know where an indevidual is going.

    • DJ Salinger

      The word of God doesn’t evolve. Except for the thousands of times where the Bible was reinterpreted, commissioned, and rewritten. You’re right. No progression or evolution at all.

  • The Bible is the final standard and no Bishop even Jakes can change God’s word. SIN is sin and nobody is exempt. The wages of sin is death and every soul that sins will die. It is a pity that this generation does not believe in the power of the gospel in transforming our lives. When you come to Christ you are Born Again. You become a new creature in Christ. You are expected to bear the fruit of the Holy Spirit. One of this is self-control. You are dead to sin and sin is no longer a master over you. Sodomy has been declared a sin just like many other sins in the Bible.

  • Samuel F Waddell

    His house. I thought that the TRUE CHURCH, all who are born-again were CHRIST’S and not the local pastor’s? The BIBLE Is plain on homosexuality. We cannot add too or take from there is no EVOLUTION with CHRIST. HE is the same yesterday, today and forever Hebrews 13:8. By the way Hebrews 13:4 states that God will judge fornicator and adulterer and that only marriage between a man and woman qualifies people to have sex, in God’s sight.

    • Amos Moses

      What are we to expect from a modalist who does not believe in the trinity?

  • Roxy Wade

    Romans 1:26-32 (SEE 1:18-32 FOR FULL CONTEXT)

    26 For this reason God gave them up to vile [VILE] passions. For even their women exchanged the natural [NATURAL] use for what is against [AGAINST] nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural [NATURAL] use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful [SHAMEFUL], and receiving in themselves the penalty [PENALTY] of their error [ERROR] which was due.

    28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased [DEBASED] mind, to do those things which are not [NOT] fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness [UNRIGHTEOUSNESS], sexual immorality [SEXUAL IMMORALITY], wickedness [WICKEDNESS], covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness [EVIL-MINDEDNESS]; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God [HATERS OF GOD], violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil [EVIL] things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing [KNOWING] the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are [ARE] deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve [BUT ALSO APPROVE] of those who practice them.

  • Samuel F Waddell

    The True Church can only have THE CONVICTIONS OF GOD’S WORD. JESUS is the head of the church not TD Jakes. It is not his house but CHRIST’S. This may be the problem maybe it is his house and not CHRIST’S? Will famous mega-church preachers cause many to stray from God and avoid true salvation or will they FOLLOW JESUS and PREACH HIS WORD, seeing PEOPLE SAVED AND TRANSFORMED? It seems, at this point, that many are doing the former rather than the latter! All people should be invited to hear GOD’S WORD but they should truly hear GOD’S WORD and not have their ears tickled by false teaching. JESUS never considered those who refuse to REPENT as being saved. It is plain in Scripture Luke 13:1-5 Unless you repent you will all likewise perish. This is true for me, for Jakes and for all. IT IS THE WORD OF THE LORD!

  • matthew

    Correct me if this is an incorrect position but the way I am interpreting the Christian faith is this:

    If you don’t believe what I believe, then screw you! You’re a horrible person who should just shut up! I’m right because GOD JUDGES ALL.

    Gays are the worst thing that I can possible think of! I want to make their life on earth as horrific as possible because they’re going to go to hell to suffer for eternity!

    The Bible is flawless. My excuses for not following it are valid! Your excuses for not following it are meaningless and you will suffer for eternity!

    Love thy neighbor and the good works that the book of James talks about is only for select people. God made it the most important commandment because he wants me to be nice to people when I actually practice Christianity: occasionally on Sunday before the NFL begins, and on the occasional religious holiday.

    Man. I hope I’m wrong.

    • Nick25

      Let me correct you.

      God created everything. Man fell because of pride. God rectified everything by sending a Savior. All we have to do is accept that free gift, if we don’t we die in our sins. It’s really quite simple. If you accept it your saved, if you reject it your not saved. Why is that so difficult?

      We were created to glorify God, our creator— everything else is nothing.

      • matthew

        I’ve always thought the salvation piece had a charming ring to it, it’s the people who tell me I need it that turns me off. Why do I want to go to an eternity with people who are so preachy all the time?

        • Nick25

          You were high in bible school, weren’t you lol. I’m not going to tell you what you need- you know what you need.

          And an eternity with preachy people? Your view is warped, but even if it’s not it a HELL of a lot better than the alternative (pun intended 🙂 ).

  • frybaby

    Im so very disappointed in Jakes

  • sherry1053

    Yea..his son is queer..and on his way to hell
    This so called man of God is Evil.

  • Say what?

    Seen this coming a mile away,glad I never followed him.

  • Rick

    1 Peter 1:14-16 As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance, 15but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; 16because it is written, “YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY.”
    There is a great falling away from the faith that Jesus founded 2000 years ago, the obedience that Abraham displayed over 4100 years ago and the purity that Noah showed over 5100 years before.
    The people of God must come out from among them. Be separate, not associate with such or even talk about these lifestyles that defile God’s order for creation.

  • Adrienne

    Ugh…….he’s off my Christmas list.

  • TaKisha R Hudson

    His words were completely taken out of context.

    “My comment on HuffPo TV drifted into issues of the Supreme Court ruling and changing the world through public policy verses personal witness. Further, I have come to respect that I can’t force my beliefs on others by controlling public policy for taxpayers and other U.S. citizens.

    Jesus never sought to change the world through public policy but rather through personal transformation. All people didn’t embrace Him either. That’s what I said and what I meant … Nothing more and nothing less.

    Just because a so-called Christian publication chooses to misconstrue my words using lazy journalistic tactics to further their own agenda and draw attention to their site does not make their statements an accurate depiction of what I said or meant.

    Investigate.

    Do not take everything you read online or hear repeated as truth. When asked about the “black church” and its role in ministering to gay people, I briefly mentioned (we were running out of time) the word “evolved and evolving” regarding my approach over the 39 years of my ministry to gay people who choose to come to our services.

    I simply meant that my method is evolving—not my message. I was shocked to read that this was manipulated in a subsequent article to say I endorsed same-sex marriage! My position on the subject has been steadfast and rooted in Scripture.

    For the record, I do not endorse same-sex marriage, but I respect the rights that this country affords those that disagree with me.”

  • Brian Ssempebwa

    Before any one points a finger at the man OF God, find out, what is sin? Just thinking of doing any sin you have sinned.

  • Dio Jones

    The apostasy and falling away is happening before our eyes…

    Always be a light that is shininginthedark.

  • bamaclt

    Matthew 7:15. It will only get worse from here.

  • Bishop Sam Wherry

    T D JAKES HERE: Like the majority of the Great Chosen of the Almighty God who gone into Service and Mission of God in the Old Testament and today in the New Testament relinquish from retaining God in their knowledge and take position with The World (Society) defying Revelation 22: 18 I testify and warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book [its predictions, consolations, and admonitions]: if anyone adds [anything] to them, God will add to him the plagues (afflictions, calamities) which are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from or distorts the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away [from that one] his share from the tree of life and from the holy city (new Jerusalem), which are written in this book.

    Here it is clearly is in contradiction to Genesis 2: 20b but for Adam there was not found a helper [that was] suitable (a companion) for him. 21 So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam; and while he slept, He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. 22 And the rib which the Lord God had taken from the man He made (fashioned, formed) into a woman, and He brought her and presented her to the man. 23 Then Adam said,

    “This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man.”

    24 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and shall be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh. 25 And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed or embarrassed.

    God through Jesus Christ here gives validity to choosing the secular over his Statue/Ordinance for Man/Woman: Romans 1 Unbelief and Its Consequences

    18 For [God does not overlook sin and] the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who in their wickedness suppress and stifle the truth, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them [in their inner consciousness], for God made it evident to them. 20 For ever since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through His workmanship [all His creation, the wonderful things that He has made], so that they [who fail to believe and trust in Him] are without excuse and without defense. 21 For even though [d]they knew God [as the Creator], they did not [e]honor Him as God or give thanks [for His wondrous creation]. On the contrary, they became worthless in their thinking [godless, with pointless reasonings, and silly speculations], and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory and majesty and excellence of the immortal God for [f]an image [worthless idols] in the shape of mortal man and birds and four-footed animals and reptiles.

    24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their own hearts to [sexual] impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them [abandoning them to the degrading power of sin], 25 because [by choice] they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

    26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading and vile passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural [a function contrary to nature], 27 and in the same way also the men turned away from the natural function of the woman and were consumed with their desire toward one another, men with men committing shameful acts and in return receiving in their own bodies the inevitable and appropriate penalty for their wrongdoing.

    28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God or consider Him worth knowing [as their Creator], God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do things which are improper and repulsive, 29 until they were filled (permeated, saturated) with every kind of unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice and mean-spiritedness. They are gossips [spreading rumors], 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors [of new forms] of evil, disobedient and disrespectful to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful [without pity]. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree and His judgment, that those who do such things deserve death, yet they not only do them, but they even [enthusiastically] approve and tolerate others who practice them.

    Again; Revelation 22: 18 I testify and warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book [its predictions, consolations, and admonitions]: if anyone adds [anything] to them, God will add to him the plagues (afflictions, calamities) which are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from or distorts the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away [from that one] his share from the tree of life and from the holy city (new Jerusalem), which are written in this book.

    I stand firmly as one of the Called/Chosen of Elomin (God) under the Reign and Lordship of Jesus Christ immovable and steadfast as all or commissioned in Isiah 6: Isaiah’s Commission

    8 Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, “Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?” Then I said, “Here am I. Send me!” 9 And He said, “Go, and tell this people:‘Keep on listening, but do not understand;

    Keep on looking, but do not comprehend.’

    10 “Make the heart of this people insensitive, Their ears dull, And their eyes dim, Otherwise they might see with their eyes, Hear with their ears, Understand with their hearts, And return and be healed.”

    THAT IS THE MESSAGE NOT INCLUSION. THE MESSAGE RETURN AND BE HEALED TO GENESIS 2: 18-25 LGBT (BE HEALED) AND 1 JOHN 1: 8 If we say we have no sin [refusing to admit that we are sinners], we delude ourselves and the truth is not in us. [His word does not live in our hearts.] 9 If we [freely] admit that we have sinned and confess our sins, He is faithful and just [true to His own nature and promises], and will forgive our sins and cleanse us continually from all unrighteousness [our wrongdoing, everything not in conformity with His will and purpose].

    10 If we say that we have not sinned [refusing to admit acts of sin], we make Him [out to be] a liar [by contradicting Him] and His word is not in us. SO IT BE!

  • Janice Mack

    Righteousness, not religion, exalteth a nation but sin is a reproach to any people.

  • Dick Size

    I’m sure he doesn’t have a horse in this race :/

  • JD Beavers

    The subject is not complicated and is pretty straight forward. The answer is actually quite simple but it is people that refuse to want to hear the truth that cry it is complicated. The answer does not need to evolve due to cultural views. Cultural views has nothing to do with the truth but everything to do with people wanting to try to split hairs with sin. Like it or not the Bible is clear on this subject. As far as going to churches that support that life style it is no different than anyone else pulling out of any church and going somewhere else that will say what they want to hear. That benefits no one for then there is no need to change and the conscience is ignored and seared and the Holy Spirit grieved because the Word of God no longer holds precedence or authority over the issue. I’m afraid that is the sad state of affairs the American church has found itself to be in. There are some true believers out there but they are often marginalized, criticized and ridiculed for the Biblical stance in which they take. It is popular now to stand against and question biblical authority on any moral issue. That is why we need those with a voice to take a stand for righteousness, holiness, and truth. Other wise we will become as stated in 2 Timothy 4:2-4 (KJV)

    2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

    3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

    4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

    And that is a sad state of affairs for any church to find itself in for then it may find it is no longer effective as a soul winner and becomes no different than any other social group simply trying to provide a social service or agenda. It may provide a good works mentality and deeds but as a soul winner it comes up far too short of that purpose and goal. It is so sad many can not find true peace while this argument continues. There are those who love to stir up divisions in the body of Christ (the church) and try to muddy the Spiritual waters and keep the church focused on the issue in order to divide and cause chaos. I will say that it is highly unlikely you will change anyones view on this issue here. Most are closed to hear or listen, but I challenge you to listen not to me but the Word as the final authority for in the end that is what you will be judged by. Do I hate gays? No. Am I homophobic? No, no more than I’m a drunk-a-phobe, adultr-a-phobe, or sin-a-phobe for all need salvation and Jesus in their hearts for the bible says in Acts 4:12-13

    12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

    13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marveled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.
    We just need some people to get in touch with Jesus. God will take care of the rest.

  • KellyKAFIR

    Absolute heresy! These so called pastors will stand in God’s judgment and even moreso for leading people astray from the word of God. They would be better off to tie a millstone around their neck and throw themselves into the sea…. Well the Bible does say only a remnant will remain.

  • TruGalt

    Narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Homosexuals should come to church and repent from sin.

  • USMC71

    Mr Jakes, does not matter what we puny humans think about what the Lord has commanded. Our is to do – DUTY – and not straining God’s clear principles and precepts through the grid of popular culture. You are forsaking your first love, sir, and embracing the bosom of a foreigner.

  • Bill

    I always thought he was a double talking con man, now I know it

  • Gerardo Jerry Grado

    So…either huff post lied or Christian news lied. In none of this is the bishop saying homosexuality is acceptable

  • Owen Nlekwuwa

    There is nothing complex about the homosexual issue. The word of God is clear and straight on it. The complexity is introduced by people of God who want to be “politically correct,” whatever that means, and will not take a stand with God.

  • David J Hawke

    In the church you find people that gossip, over-eat, cuss, commit adultery, do not walk by faith (whatsoever is not of faith is sin Rom 14;23), live in fear, (first sin listed in Rev) and we smile and shake hands with them. The Bible identifies all of those things as sin. Some don’t pay their taxes , some speak about their Pastor behind his back, and some treat their wives badly. Why can they come to church and someone seeking God but struggling with their sexuality may not? Isn’t church the non judgemental place where people get a chance to see Jesus and receive forgiveness and healing?

  • Edwingts Mompremier

    Throughout times, God has always been looking for men who were not afraid to call sin, sin. Yes He loves the sinner but He hates the sin. All He wants is for the sinner to repent. We are all sinners and fall short. Once someone starts compromising with what God says is sin, then you’re of the devil, period. That’s basically the same thing that he has done to Eve when he told her that she will not die when God clearly told them they will. There is nothing complex regarding homosexuality for it is a sin before God.

  • ladybug

    Read your history. Homosexuality is a sign of the last stages of a decaying society such as the fall of Rome.

  • Olatunji Mwamba

    I wonder what Bible T.D. Snakes, oops, I means Jakes is reading from? I guess he’s never read Genesis 19:1-29, Leviticus 18:22-24, Leviticus 20:13, Romans 1:27 & 32, 1st Corinthians 6:9, 1st John 3:4, and Matthew 5:17-20?

  • Sad that this “evolving” does not include following the Word of God. I hope this gentleman realizes what it means to sell one’s soul the Devil, but hey — if he of all people does not know that, he deserves the “reward” he will eventually receive for his duplicity.

    Very sad.

  • Renee Solis

    He is a false teacher, and he calls the bldg that he preaches in “his house,” that in itself is blasphemy, it is “Gods house”

    • disqus_QU1sbeklvG

      Jakes issued a statement on Facebook, which is reprinted below in its entirety…

      “My comment on HuffPo TV drifted into issues of the Supreme Court ruling and changing the world through public policy verses personal witness. Further, I have come to respect that I can’t force my beliefs on others by controlling public policy for taxpayers and other U.S. citizens.

      Jesus never sought to change the world through public policy but rather through personal transformation. All people didn’t embrace Him either. That’s what I said and what I meant … Nothing more and nothing less.

      Just because a so-called Christian publication chooses to misconstrue my words using lazy journalistic tactics to further their own agenda and draw attention to their site does not make their statements an accurate depiction of what I said or meant.

      Investigate.

      Do not take everything you read online or hear repeated as truth. When asked about the “black church” and its role in ministering to gay people, I briefly mentioned (we were running out of time) the word “evolved and evolving” regarding my approach over the 39 years of my ministry to gay people who choose to come to our services.

      I simply meant that my method is evolving—not my message. I was shocked to read that this was manipulated in a subsequent article to say I endorsed same-sex marriage! My position on the subject has been steadfast and rooted in Scripture.

      For the record, I do not endorse same-sex marriage, but I respect the rights that this country affords those that disagree with me.”

  • FedUp

    Repost of Jakes statement on this article

    Late last night, Jakes issued a statement on Facebook, which is reprinted below in its entirety.

    My comment on HuffPo TV drifted into issues of the Supreme Court ruling and changing the world through public policy verses personal witness. Further, I have come to respect that I can’t force my beliefs on others by controlling public policy for taxpayers and other U.S. citizens.

    Jesus never sought to change the world through public policy but rather through personal transformation. All people didn’t embrace Him either. That’s what I said and what I meant … Nothing more and nothing less.

    Just because a so-called Christian publication chooses to misconstrue my words using lazy journalistic tactics to further their own agenda and draw attention to their site does not make their statements an accurate depiction of what I said or meant.

    Investigate.

    Do not take everything you read online or hear repeated as truth. When asked about the “black church” and its role in ministering to gay people, I briefly mentioned (we were running out of time) the word “evolved and evolving” regarding my approach over the 39 years of my ministry to gay people who choose to come to our services.

    I simply meant that my method is evolving—not my message. I was shocked to read that this was manipulated in a subsequent article to say I endorsed same-sex marriage! My position on the subject has been steadfast and rooted in Scripture.

    For the record, I do not endorse same-sex marriage, but I respect the rights that this country affords those that disagree with me.

    Michael Brown, though, still wants Jakes to offer more clarification. What’s your take? Are you relieved? Does Jakes need to be clearer or is it now crystal to you where he stands?

  • Michael Falsia

    Here is a man sitting in the lap of Antichrist! Do we need any further proof that this man is a false prophet. When you can do an interview with the enemy of truth and righteousness and have it go smoothly with no virulent resistance you know your Christianity is not worth anything and the Holy Spirit is non existent. This only confirms what anyone with any discernment already knew about TD Jakes!

    • disqus_QU1sbeklvG

      Jakes issued a statement on Facebook, which is reprinted below in its entirety….

      “My comment on HuffPo TV drifted into issues of the Supreme Court ruling and changing the world through public policy verses personal witness. Further, I have come to respect that I can’t force my beliefs on others by controlling public policy for taxpayers and other U.S. citizens.

      Jesus never sought to change the world through public policy but rather through personal transformation. All people didn’t embrace Him either. That’s what I said and what I meant … Nothing more and nothing less.

      Just because a so-called Christian publication chooses to misconstrue my words using lazy journalistic tactics to further their own agenda and draw attention to their site does not make their statements an accurate depiction of what I said or meant.

      Investigate.

      Do not take everything you read online or hear repeated as truth. When asked about the “black church” and its role in ministering to gay people, I briefly mentioned (we were running out of time) the word “evolved and evolving” regarding my approach over the 39 years of my ministry to gay people who choose to come to our services.

      I simply meant that my method is evolving—not my message. I was shocked to read that this was manipulated in a subsequent article to say I endorsed same-sex marriage! My position on the subject has been steadfast and rooted in Scripture.

      For the record, I do not endorse same-sex marriage, but I respect the rights that this country affords those that disagree with me.”

  • Jay Nation

    Jesus is love and accepts us all as we are. We are like filthy rags in his sight — no matter how good we do. It’s refreshing to hear a Bishop remind us all that the church should be called the house of prayer for all people, regardless of the blemishes or challenges that we face. Too often, non Christian are turned away from our God because we are judgmental and refuse to acknowledge that we too sin just like those who we choose to refer to as sinners. I’ve learned that I have to run to the same fountain of grace as my next brother or sister that might be gay, homosexual, lesbian, confused, transgendered or other.

  • Eric Lee

    Bishop said his position is evolving. God’s position isn’t! There is no salvation in man! You will know the tree by the fruit it produces. Be careful Bishop when your views are in conflict with the Word.

    • disqus_QU1sbeklvG

      Jakes issued a statement on Facebook, which is reprinted below in its entirety..

      “My comment on HuffPo TV drifted into issues of the Supreme Court ruling and changing the world through public policy verses personal witness. Further, I have come to respect that I can’t force my beliefs on others by controlling public policy for taxpayers and other U.S. citizens.

      Jesus never sought to change the world through public policy but rather through personal transformation. All people didn’t embrace Him either. That’s what I said and what I meant … Nothing more and nothing less.

      Just because a so-called Christian publication chooses to misconstrue my words using lazy journalistic tactics to further their own agenda and draw attention to their site does not make their statements an accurate depiction of what I said or meant.

      Investigate.

      Do not take everything you read online or hear repeated as truth. When asked about the “black church” and its role in ministering to gay people, I briefly mentioned (we were running out of time) the word “evolved and evolving” regarding my approach over the 39 years of my ministry to gay people who choose to come to our services.

      I simply meant that my method is evolving—not my message. I was shocked to read that this was manipulated in a subsequent article to say I endorsed same-sex marriage! My position on the subject has been steadfast and rooted in Scripture.

      For the record, I do not endorse same-sex marriage, but I respect the rights that this country affords those that disagree with me.”

  • Watchman on the Wall

    I have lost ALL respect for the man. He has sold he soul to the god of this world. I pray that he comes to his senses before its too late.

    • disqus_QU1sbeklvG

      Jakes issued a statement on Facebook, which is reprinted below in its entirety.

      “My comment on HuffPo TV drifted into issues of the Supreme Court ruling and changing the world through public policy verses personal witness. Further, I have come to respect that I can’t force my beliefs on others by controlling public policy for taxpayers and other U.S. citizens.

      Jesus never sought to change the world through public policy but rather through personal transformation. All people didn’t embrace Him either. That’s what I said and what I meant … Nothing more and nothing less.

      Just because a so-called Christian publication chooses to misconstrue my words using lazy journalistic tactics to further their own agenda and draw attention to their site does not make their statements an accurate depiction of what I said or meant.

      Investigate.

      Do not take everything you read online or hear repeated as truth. When asked about the “black church” and its role in ministering to gay people, I briefly mentioned (we were running out of time) the word “evolved and evolving” regarding my approach over the 39 years of my ministry to gay people who choose to come to our services.

      I simply meant that my method is evolving—not my message. I was shocked to read that this was manipulated in a subsequent article to say I endorsed same-sex marriage! My position on the subject has been steadfast and rooted in Scripture.

      For the record, I do not endorse same-sex marriage, but I respect the rights that this country affords those that disagree with me.”

  • Christian Patriot

    We were never a Christian nation in the truist sense, rather we have been a nation of predominately Christian people, with a system of laws loosley based in biblical and natural laws.
    To be a Christian nation, we would have to be a theocracy, not a republic. And there was never any clause calling for a separation of church & state.
    But, TD is out in sodom’s left field with his “evolving” stance on matters of moralityand sin.

  • disqus_QU1sbeklvG

    Jakes issued a statement on Facebook, which is reprinted below in its entirety.

    My comment on HuffPo TV drifted into issues of the Supreme Court ruling and changing the world through public policy verses personal witness. Further, I have come to respect that I can’t force my beliefs on others by controlling public policy for taxpayers and other U.S. citizens.

    Jesus never sought to change the world through public policy but rather through personal transformation. All people didn’t embrace Him either. That’s what I said and what I meant … Nothing more and nothing less.

    Just because a so-called Christian publication chooses to misconstrue my words using lazy journalistic tactics to further their own agenda and draw attention to their site does not make their statements an accurate depiction of what I said or meant.

    Investigate.

    Do not take everything you read online or hear repeated as truth. When asked about the “black church” and its role in ministering to gay people, I briefly mentioned (we were running out of time) the word “evolved and evolving” regarding my approach over the 39 years of my ministry to gay people who choose to come to our services.

    I simply meant that my method is evolving—not my message. I was shocked to read that this was manipulated in a subsequent article to say I endorsed same-sex marriage! My position on the subject has been steadfast and rooted in Scripture.

    For the record, I do not endorse same-sex marriage, but I respect the rights that this country affords those that disagree with me.

  • Snowman8wa

    “These days it’s not just that the line between right and wrong has been made unclear. Today Christians are being asked by our culture to erase the lines and move the fences, and if that were not bad enough, we are being asked to join in the celebration cry by those who have thrown off the restraints religion had imposed upon them. It is not just that they ask we accept, but they now demand of us to celebrate it too.” [Ravi Zacharias]

    “Beware of bartering the Word of God for a more suitable conception of your own.” Disciples Indeed, 386 R
    “Our danger is to water down God’s word to suit ourselves. God never fits His word to suit me; He fits me to suit His word.” Not Knowing Whither, 901 R

    Nuff said…….

    Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis

  • El gato

    Jakes is yet another self-important phony hypocrite! The Bible makes it perfectly clear that homosexuality is an abomination, and those who practice it have no place in the Kingdom. These “mega churches” attract people with a world view rather than a Godly view. They will all follow their false teachers into hell and then the lake of fire!

  • NCOriolesFan

    Christians should always welcome gays to their churches. The BEST place for all sinners is the church.

  • Elder Jimmy Biggs

    In the last days lawlessness will abound and the love of many will wax cold…. But you who endure till the end the same will be saved…..
    9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortionist will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 New King James Version (NKJV) And please don’t give me that Jesus didn’t say this or that illiteracy. Take all of the Bible or none of the Bible as God’s Holy Word. Thank You.

  • Joan Rogers

    God’s Word is final, a will be judged by the Word of God.
    1Cor.6:9,10 thorough
    Lev.20:13 Rom.1:25, 26,27,28
    You Never ever go against God. Never compromise the Holy Word of.God

  • Shadreck Machie Fungai Macheme

    The Word of God is supreme in everything. When a man who preaches the gospel leaves the Word and joins the world view, then it’s time to recognize the fruit. If the fruit is bad, so is the man. Shameful how double standards seem to affect what we call the great leaders of the Church. T. D. Jakes has betrayed the Word he swore to preach. He has bought the lie and as such cannot teach the Word. We Christians follow the Word. We do not debate on it and neither do we have an opinion. What God says is what is supreme. Times can change but the Word doesn’t. We do not change the Word to suit the times, we change the times to suit the Word. These are the false prophets of our times. We shall know them by their fruit!

  • Roxy Wade

    An absolute WOLF!!! BEWARE!!!

  • FreeYourMind2

    What the Word of God says is more important than what any man or woman says. PERIOD.

  • FreeYourMind2

    Jesus said “Go, and SIN NO MORE to the woman caught in adultery. He didn’t say, “It’s OK because we are all sinners” or ” Nobody can tell you who to love”, etc etc. he didn’t say “Well Maybe I am evolving on this, who am I to judge?”

  • Monica Mullins

    This man is a charleton. He does not believe in the trinity. Like ophra he believes that there is more than one way to heaven. And it’s alright to be gay. There is only one way. And that is thru the son. He is going to Hell and no I’m not judging him he’s judged himself. Money preacher. Spreading the lies so now the gays will send to him.

  • Monica Mullins

    No he’s not. As long as he condones sin he is not a man of God. He is someone who tells people what they want to hear to keep the money rolling in. I had great respect for this man till I found out the truth. He doesn’t believe in the trinity. He believes there is more ways than one to heaven and that it’s alright to be gay. I believe the words of the Bible to be the truth. I believe in the holy spirit, Jesus, and God. There is only one way to heaven and that is thru the son who sets at the right hand of the father. Who died on the cross and was resurrected in 3 days. The bible says man shall not lay with man as a woman. And woman shall not lie with woman. The B bible says it is an abomination and shall not enter the kingdom of heaven. He calls evil good and good evil.

  • Mommy Says

    I’d been hearing that there’s a lot of “down low” behavior in some black churches, just as in some white churches. IOW, male preachers secretly having same sex with other males in their congregations. I am NOT saying Jakes is party to that, but it grieves me to read the above article. While I hope it’s not true (it’s from an interview with the HuffPost, which is legendarily manipulative), if it is true, then this indicates a major departure from Biblical truth. No sin needs to be “affirmed;” it needs to be repented of and stopped. I also saw that Jakes considers the idea that America is a Christian nation is a “myth.” America was founded by Christians and our whole system is based on Judeo-Christian values. Overall, it sounds like Jakes might have strayed in a way that’s very destructive to the church and to America, and that’s alarming.

  • Sarah Pierson

    How do they get around the whole Bible says it’s a sin issue?!?!

  • Rich Rochester

    Wow. “When we leave the pages of Scripture, we enter into the wastelands of our own objectivity.” – Clark Pinnock God and His Word………….do………..not………….change.

  • pastoredsmith

    So, TD Jakes, how has your position on homosexuality “evolved” beyond the Word of God? Did you tear those pages from the Scriptures and “evolve” to the point you ignore God’s directive about marriage? What gives you the right to remove God’s teachings? Struggles? Yes, we all have them. Redefine what sin is and is not? Not your privy, sir. I pray you reconsider and can the “evolution.” Get back to the Word of God.

  • Donovan Stokes

    No one is equipped to point fingers unless we truly know what you do behind closed doors when no one is watching or listening. God is pleased I believe when we treat others the way we want to be treated.

  • Kathleen Lewis

    Evangelib

  • Susan g

    Weak and pathetic

  • JimCos

    Sweet!
    So it’s OK to just ignore huge slices of the Bible and carry on with
    our hedonism? WOOT-WOOT!! Where can I find a church that doesn’t
    consider STEALING a sin and won’t preach against it? I want a church
    that OK’s drunkenness and espouses no marital boundaries either! Yeah,
    stay on this path. It’ll happen.
    (“evolving”. Another word for “caving to Satan”)

  • Madcat151

    He revealed himself to be a servant of Satan. All you had to say in the header.

  • Hedgedweller

    Is not this a quote “Homosexuals should attend congregations that affirm (support or encourage) their lifestyle. How Jakes can support the lifestyle of homosexuality and say we should encourage their sin, without abandoning the founding principles of Christ is total blindness. Why should we stop there? Should we say the same thing to the bank robber, the pedofile, the serial killer, the liar and thief, the hater and adulterer, or maybe remember our great shepherd said, “Go and sin no more”. Wouldn’t be what Paul calls, an apostate? Of course it is! I love to hear Jakes, a great orator,,,, but now that no longer matters. Many man of God has veer way off course in their latter ministry.and he has followed suite.

  • Paul Lambert

    Perfect example of people not following Man but follow God instead. Man will always let you down. TD supported Obama is his 2008 election.

  • lightperson

    “…have to find a place of worship that reflects what your views are and what you believe like anyone else,” I think you would be better served if you found a “place of worship” that reflects God’s view of things.

  • Nrec Lleshaj

    YES.

    1 Corinthians 5:12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?

    1 Corinthians 15:33 Do not be misled: “Bad company corrupts good character.”

    Ezekiel 18:21“But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. 22None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live. 23Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?

    24“But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.

    25“Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Hear, you Israelites: Is my way unjust? Is it not your ways that are unjust?

    Hebrews 10:38

    38 but my righteous one shall live by faith,
    and if he shrinks back,
    my soul has no pleasure in him.”

  • April Fellers

    I’ve said for years that he had no business aligning himself with Christ. What he is doing is extremely reckless. He is abandoning the gospel all together, and I noticed that when he became BFF’s with Oprah and Obama he lost his moral compass. Sad that he got his money off unsuspecting Christians that couldn’t see through his garbage. I knew he was false from the get go. Thank you God for opening my eyes to him a long time ago and for saving me from contributing to his bank account in any way. You CANT stand on the Bible and the word of God and believe for one second that the church and homosexuality is evolving together. Shame on this man. I pray God get a hold of this man quick before he can attempt to create a movement. I also pray that God humble him quickly. Doesn’t he realize that he can’t preach homosexuality from the original copy of the Bible?!?! He is a false profit, he needs to evolve right on out of the church spotlight and go wherever it is the political correctness lives, there isn’t a place for it in the church. Ever!!!!

  • These are, indeed, perilous times (2 Timothy 3:1-7). Why are these times so perilous? It’s because the people described in this passage are supposed CHRISTIAN LEADERS.

  • Eleanor Grey

    This guy sold out along ago for money and fame. At this point, he’s nothing more than Oprah’s lapdog.

  • Deborah G. Brenwald

    so sorry to here that Pastor Jakes have gotten confused.

  • Isabel1956

    You are giving Christians a bad name. No true Christian will ever approve gay marriage. Just because we are to love even our enemies does not mean we have to love the sin.

  • Isabel1956

    Not everyone who says “Lord, Lord” will enter the kingdom of Heaven. You better get back on the right track before it’s too late.

  • Isabel1956

    I am not to judge (leave that to God). I pray God will deal with him and he will get back on the right track.

  • rushmoon

    I certainly don’t know what Bible he is reading but mine says different. Hmmm, I believe I’ll stick to what God says about it.. He’s just another false teacher Jesus indeed said it would be this way in the end time.

  • Dre

    The first word that came to mind, Apostacy. no lie

  • Warren Webb

    TD Jakes, you wicked, low life, rebellious piece of Satanic dog crap!! We knew you hated God before, but this is more evidence that you serve the synagogue of Satan and not the Most High.

    God never said homosexuality was ok, and his word never changes. Homosexuality is an abomination unto God and you won’t find God supporting it in ANY WAY!!

    You show me where God supports homosexuality!! I dare you…

    YOU LOW LIFE, 12 SANDWICH EATIN, KFC CHICKEN & BISCUIT, STANK, BLOATED, HELLBOUND SCUMBAG!! You’re gonna get many people sent to the lake of fire and brimstone!!!

    All who supports this greedy dog will follow his lead right into the PITS OF HELL!!

  • Nina

    WTF?????? What bible is he reading or teaching from????? Homosexuality is an abomination to God!!!!!! When I saw on the OWN network that he had a talk, I said to myself: Self, he’s a goner, no turning back. I started to lose respect for what I thought was a man of God, but he’s no different. He needs to personally address me and prove to me that homosexuality is not a sin in the eyes of God. You see, it’s not Jake’s eyes that matter, but the eyes of God because in the end, God will win!!!!!!! To me he belongs to the world, don’t matter what anyone else says.

  • stever777

    I am concerned that many who are posting here are confusing the ministry of the Messiah, prior to the institution of the New Covenant, with what happens after we are born again. The new creation is a saint not a sinner. We are holy and blameless before God in love. Eph. 1:4. The new creation is not dysfunctional or sexually confused or LGBT or any other variation of God’s best. Sadly, most believers don’t understand the great exchange that the gospel affords to us. We are all born sinners in need of God’s forgiveness and the freedom from fear, guilt and shame the good news offers to all who place their faith in Messiah. This is the radical truth of God’s Word. Prayerfully study Roman’s chapters 6, 7 & 8. May God open the eyes of your understanding, Eph. 1:18-21.

  • Michael Pat

    I am not surprised. How else would He get His own show on tv?

  • Eulene Garland

    Are you kidding me ? This is an abomination to God , he does not change ! This man will send his souls to hell and his own also !

  • John Anthony Schultz

    Is “Homosexual Orientation” a worse sin than say, “Pedophilia”, or “Hetero-Adultery”, or “Theft”, or “Murder”?
    I just need a straight “YES”, or “NO”, please. ………
    And before you try & use the usual cliched dismissal, I will go on record as identifying as a 1,000% Hetero-Cis-Male. ….
    Ok, now, YES, or NO? ……
    ROAMNS 3:10. …. ROAMNS 3:23

  • Terry Wimes

    WOW: THE LORD IS SOON TO COME

  • Blackgirl Harris

    Its shameful that we as Christians, cannot express our opinion without being attacked in the media or news. Especially with the preachers of our churches. Overall, we are not the judge of the gay community no more than the crack addict. God’s plan is for us to magnify Christ to the maximum & for us to live our lives Christlike & Christminded. Those that follow Him, where is it in the Bible that we nail them to the cross with our opinions. Love God with heart, soul, & mind, Love your neighbor as yourself. Seek God’s kingdom. We have enough learning of His ways to be worried about God’s business. He can handle it,, without us throwing stones. See that’s a sin too. So easy to point fingers when two pointing back at you. The essence of God is what we should be concerned with & obtaining it within ourselves. Rather gay, straight, liar, thief, dishonest, etc, we all have an account of our sins that we will face on judgement day. No man is without sin. It’s our own volitions that cause us to stumble or walk according to God’s mandates & principles. But, to attack another, SMH! One word: Persecutors

  • Ed Garcia

    I’ll just say heaven is not for everyone

  • George Franklin

    With all that is going on in the world…ALL the hatred…ALL the murders…ALL of the political crap…And we are still focused on who sleeps with who?

  • Laughinginyourface

    Love is our job, not rejection and hate and fear. I like what TD is saying. He is saying that we all need to gravitate to where our way of life is celebrated. I do not believe that the blessing is on the church that tolerates sin, however I am with the house that loves the sinner and allows grace to be the instructor that leads men to repentance verses the heavy hand of the law. Homosexuality is not an identity that defines the nature of Christ in man. It is a reprobate life. However, the Lord loves them reprobates and is offering them life abundantly… how about you? TD nails the truth when he reminds us that this nation is not built around church values but around the republic for which it stands… One nation under God indivisible with LIBERTY and JUSTICE FOR ALL!
    Once you get past [thinking America is a Christian nation] … Once you begin to understand that democracy—that a republic actually—is designed to be an overarching system to protect our unique nuances, then we no longer look for public policy to reflect biblical ethics,” Jakes explained.

  • Steve Smith

    Jake’s is now AntiChrist. Did Paul wrestle with the issue of homosexuality in Romans 1, not at all? Jake’s is no longer a minister of Christ but of Satan with his evolution.

  • Frank Gilbert

    Just don’t know what to say. Only that we will all answer to God. No matter what our calling in life has been.

  • Barb Thiessen

    It is good when the wolves shed their “fake sheep’s’ clothing” and clearly reveal to any discerning Bible-believing Christian who they REALLY are….WOLVES! When someone comes out publicly to declare that what God SAYS in His Word is changeable and “evolving” then we know that he is not a “brother in Christ”…and the truth is NOT in him….and basically T.D. Jakes is calling God a liar!

  • Michael Caruthers

    “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;” 2 Timiothy 4:3

    So, T.D. Jakes is the poster boy for directing people to find and follow false teachers and doctrines? I certainly don’t want to be in his shoes when he stands before the Lord.

  • Robert Mark Norris

    Wow! A mega church preacher embracing the world….how novel. Bringing them into the church is scriptural lyrics sound but endorsing their sins is anti-christ. Can’t split that hair. Can only love them and allow the Holy Spirit to convict them to repent. However, homosexuality is no worse than adultery or lying or murder. Sin is sin and we should remove our tree from our eye before we try to remove the speck from their eye. Endorsing homosexuality is like Endorsing adultery! Pray for T. D. Jakes. I hear the penalty for watchmen on the wall is more severe than the sheep they mislead.

  • Jason Strand

    It’s too bad another well known preacher has bought into the lie that homosexuality is o.k. with God. The Bible says that God never changes. He hasn’t changed His mind on this issue. God condemns homosexuality in the old and new testaments. 1 Corinthians 6:9 cannot be more clear on this issue. The Bible says that in the last days there will be false teachers who tickle itching ears. I believe we are living in the last days.

  • Sarah Dispenza

    The Bible says in the last days there shall be a great falling away and also says many shall be deceived. If T.D. Jakes can’t remember what the bible says about certain issues, then his “evolving” is turning him into a false prophet. I am so sad to hear this proclamation from him.

  • Trent

    TD Jakes is a heretic and cowardly compromiser that should be avoided in obedience to Romans 16:17-18. The following verse comes to mind “Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?” Job 38:2

    TD’s job is to “Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;” 2 Timothy 4:2-3.

    TD fulfills the latter part of 2 Tim 4:3.

  • Gwamma

    Dear Brother Jake…..we can NOT differ in opinions on what God calls sin.

  • Scott

    God’s word doesn’t evolve TD. Good luck standing before Jesus on judgement day on that one. Jesus was very harsh on the hypocrite religious elite. He was very forgiving however on the repentant sinner who turned from their sin.

  • Gerson Roche Santiago

    Another one bites the dust! My God, do we have to pray for our nation!!

  • Tlove

    Its really hard to take any of you serious when a man speaks agains’t the very book you judge and condemn from. It clearly states in these verses that this is wrong.

    Leviticus 18:22: ” Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.” 3. Leviticus 20:13: “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”

    Galatians 1:8-9 ESV

    “But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed”

    Yet conveniently you all make NO mention of this. So “Who is it that ur worshiping (Man or God)”

  • Marcel Hardy

    Wow Lord help us, This a very hard thing to see this why i ask Him to help. God is love not condemnation He wants us to see and accept His Grace which came through Jesus The Christ. Romans 5: 19-21 (For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous. Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.) So now through Him if we believe that he is the Son of God, we are freed from sin, does this mean that because of grace that it gives us a pass to sin?( Romans 6:1-8 ​ What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
    For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him) Paul said God forbid No! Grace makes us not want to sin against God it enables us not to. But God through His holy spirit brings about this change of mind about our sin, (REPENTANCE) but how will we come to this truth and breaking of satan’s strong hold in our lives without hearing the Word of God divided correctly from the spirit through hearing, reading and the teaching of Gods word. (Then Jeremiah spoke to all the officials and all the people, saying, “The Lord sent me to prophesy against this house and this city all the words you have heard. Now therefore mend your ways and your deeds, and obey the voice of the Lord your God, and the Lord will relent of the disaster that he has pronounced against you).( Matt.4: 16-17 the people dwelling in darkness
    have seen a great light,
    and for those dwelling in the region and shadow of death,
    on them a light has dawned.”
    From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”)(Romans 10:14-17How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.) So you see, yes all of us are sick and no one on this earth is to judge, God is love and his grace is a gift there nothing we can do to prepare to receive it He takes us as we are and He brings about the change Thank God that He is not like man. He knows our hearts so yes All people have from Gods love the chance be saved. Amen So come hear the Word of the Loving almighty God and through the blood of Christ may we All step into Freedom and See who We really are because of the finished work of Christ Jesus the Lord. Amen.

  • Marcel Hardy

    Jakes said that he thinks homosexuals should find congregations that affirm their lifestyle. NOT GOD AT ALL …… JESUS CAME SO WE CAN BE FREE

  • timotheus1

    He’s right about one thing. America is not a Christian nation. If it was gays wouldn’t be the only ones who would have certain rights questioned.

  • Col Carter

    Has his position on every other sin in the Bible also evolved? In addition, Paul didn’t struggle with right and wrong. Paul’s writings are simply the words Jesus told him to write…no struggles or wrestling with right and wrong. This is not the first time Jakes has been confused about the Word of God.

  • Beeta

    SOUNDS LIKE ANOTHER COMPROMISING SO CALLED MINISTER IN THE PULPIT. GOD WILL HOLD THE HOMO RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR SIN AND JAKES FOR TEACHING A FALSE TEACHING AND CAUSING THESE PEOPLE TO GO TO HELL. WOULD NOT WANT TO BE IN EITHER OF THEIR SHOES IN ETERNITY..

    2. Leviticus 18:22: ” Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.” 3. Leviticus 20:13: “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.” THERE ARE MANY SCRIPTURES IN THE BIBLE THAT SAYS HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN AND THEY SHALL NOT SEE GOD OR INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD. JAKES IS TREADING ON DANGEROUS GROUND AND WILL BE LIKEWISE CAST INTO THE SAME LAKE OF FIRE. GOD SAID IT IS SIN . IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT MAN SAYS. GOD IS THE ULTIMATE AUTHORITY..

  • Tim Stewart

    The church doesn’t have the right to its own convictions or values. God has given his Word . That and other things he said are proof that he is a false prophet.

    • Tim Stewart

      And Paul didn’t go back and forth trying to figure out his position. Read the Word.

  • lsmith

    It is the Holy Spirit. our Comforter, that convicts, renew, and also makes us new creatures. Attacks cause the wrong re-action. The Bible says go out into the highway and hedges and compel them to come. Our “your smoking, cursing, fornication, lying and (extreme devotion to our jobs ex. of idolatry)(Rev 21:8), is hinders most. It is not our responsibility to judge. Our only responsibility is to allow the Holy Ghost to direct and lead us and help lead others to all truth. For those of us that have given our lives to God it is an everyday battle that can only be won with MUCH prayer, fasting, and Word on a daily basis. God gives us wisdom to avoid conflict and beat the devil at his own game. As long as the devil can keep the church in conflict on who should and should not sit on the front row, come to sit and hear the Word of God, and point fingers, the lost will never find their way to Christ and the church will do and is doing exactly what was forewarned in Rev chapters 2 and 3. If you would think back I guarantee you did not whole-heartly give your life to Christ because of your parents, siblings, pastor, or friends but it was from the inside out. We can’t jump down their throat(we are not the mediator 1 Peter 2:5) not what your called to do, but if anyone in sin has came/coming to your church or to you it is not by accident. We are here to 1) plant a seed by telling who God is, how He loves us, forgives us, and what kind of mess He brought you out of (your personal testimony) 2)water them by allowing them to hear God’s Word in God’s house without feeling like they are convicted of a crime (just remember how you felt when you were so deep in sin and some of you still are) and 3) God and only Him gives the increase (renewed mind) 1 Co 3:6. We all have a choice. Does God want one to perish, absolutely not (1 Peter2:4; 2 Peter 3:9) and neither do I but just like can’t stop you all from going back forth about if Jakes has sold out or not, if something is wrong or not, not to be negative and mean in your commets, to agree or not, I can not get angry (sin) Ephesians 4:26.

  • Jane Doe

    Jakes is part of the problem with the Church as a whole–why people are so spiritually weak. I suppose the issue with his son is why he has “evolved and is evolving”. He also calls himself “non-partisan”, but the “myth of Christianity” comment? It is clear that he has set himself against God. I pray for the members of his congregation to do just what he said–find a church which affirms their (Christian) beliefs…

  • Roman

    Wow great preacher but definitley an end times proof if falling away from the truth. He never mentioned homisexuality is a sin and abomination. Good luck with your book because it’s not blessed.

  • Brenda Carpenter

    I think many of you are missing his main point…which is that America is not a Christian nation – we are not a theocracy – we are a nation in which you can choose to be a Christian, an Atheist, a Satanist, a Buddhist, a Muslim….etc. Each religion has its own set of rules and beliefs and a person should be free to choose whatever religion they want and practice those beliefs accordingly. Our government is not our church…it is not the body of Christ…it is just government.

    • Char Fox

      I don’t agree with that being his point.

      No America is not a Christian nation…anymore. But there was another time people wanted a ruler other than God and God had Samuel give them just what they wanted. Jake’s is making this exact same demand now.

      “We need a neutralized government that protects our right to disagree with one another and agree with one another.”

      But views on homosexuality does not “evolve”…if you’re following Scripture.

  • FRESH

    I think the Bishop don’t know how to answer on this topic so I won’t be quick to judge. One can only give what you have. Anyone who still sees himself/herself as part of Christianity tells me that they are still busy with religion which has nothing to do with the Kingdom of God even though they might look and sound the same and even use the same book. See people always ask, what did Jesus say about same sex relationships and theologians with degrees cannot answer because God blinded their eyes from the truth. Jesus The KING of the Kingdom of God was very clear on this topic. Speaking of a similar judgment as was in the days of Sodom (Luke 17:28-37) He said it will happen again. He said that night there shall be two men in one bed and two woman grinding how intelligent do you have to be to figure this out ? Yet Christianity portrays this as the rapture. Verse 37 speaks of a dead body this speaks of judgment not flying away.

  • Christopher Thompson

    the gospel is being watered down and diluted, to appeal to the flesh. christians are very divided over this issue.

    Amos 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed? 1 Kings 18:21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.

  • Christopher Thompson

    1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 1 Corinthians 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 1 Corinthians 11:18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.

  • BrotherRog

    Praise God. Progress does indeed happen. Stiff necks and hardened hearts can soften and melt.

    Someday all churches and all pastors will fully welcome and celebrate all of God’s people just as God made them.

    Rev. Roger Wolsey
    Author, kissing fish: christianity for people who don’t like christianity

  • Elsie Tuell

    Sad so many fellow this false teacher.

  • JDSKULL

    That’s right Rev Jakes just a little nibble of the apple won’t matter. GOD will never know.

  • Andy Selby

    When are all religious people going to figure out that the entire point of theological systems is control through guilt and shame? When are they going to realize that their myopic and petty view of life could not possibly be a reflection of a deity responsible for creating the entire universe? If you truly believe that life is supposed to be the squeaky clean, prudish version created by modern America, then you know absolutely nothing about the diversity of life just on this planet. You know nothing about the entirety of human history, how we’ve gotten here under our own suffering and trying to make it better. There’s no love in religion. It’s all conditional and false.

  • phishing4men

    ” Every church has a different opinion on the issue” You do realize Mr. T D Jerks that there is only one opinion that is right the others are all wrong like yours is wrong. The only right opinion is the one that agrees with scripture., You deny the trinity so you could be headed for hell,,,,get ready get ready get ready.

  • Jacob Battle

    I feel sorry for this hypocrite, and liar. He has add to the word of Jesus, and he has also, taken away from it. But when they knew Jehovah, they glorified him not as Jehovah, but, became vain in their imagination, and their (foolish hearts) were darken. Professing themselves to be wise, but became fools. Enjoy your wealth, because that will be your heaven on earth, and if you don’t repent, and ask your followers to forgive you, along with asking Jesus to forgive you. And save you, the lake of fire, will be your eternal home.

  • Obinine Nnabugwu

    Jesus said go and sin no more!!! So no matter how we much we love and show love if we don’t detest sin and let them know it is sin in God’s standard’s because that’s part of showing love, helping sinners to repent, we are not doing the right thing as a Christian!

  • Trevor Stevieg West

    Well I’m not at all surprised that “TD Snakes” find it so easy to want to contradict the Word of God. Fire Bunn a Snake ! 💥💥💥💥💣💣💣💣💥💥💥💥🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍🐍💣💣💣💣💥💥💥💥

  • Bobby

    another of the lying charlatans heretic so called preachers!

  • Reason2012

    Adults continue to permanently turn away from homosexuality, even after decades of believing the lie they were “born that way”, proving it’s not genetic, but the product of indoctrination, confusion, mental instability and/or abuse.

    Homosexual behavior is most literally pointed out as a sin, and God has not changed on that regard. But if a person has those inclinations but does not act upon them, does not dwell in lust upon others, but is instead struggling against them to avoid them, then it’s not a sin. It’s just like sinful inclinations of any kind: it’s acting upon it when it becomes a sin.

    And this is what God says about sin and specifically the behavior of homosexuality:

    Romans 1:26-27 ”For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: (27) And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their_lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ”Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [men who willingly take on the part of a “woman” with another man], nor abusers of themselves with mankind [s odomites], (10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”

    1 Timothy 1:9-10 ”Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, (10) For_whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind [s odomites], for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”

    Jude 1:7 ”Even as_Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”

    Luke 17:29 ”[Jesus said] But the same day that Lot went out of_Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.”

    Matthew 19:4-6 ”And he [Jesus] answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, (5) And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? (6) Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.”

    Jesus made it quite clear God made us male and female so that a man will leave his father and mother (not two fathers, not three mothers and so on) and cleave onto his wife (not his husband and so on).

    The Word of God rebukes us all – even if we all try to say we don’t believe the Bible, the very Word of God will be our judge when we face Him. And God is a righteous judge and will judge us all – not turn a blind eye to our sin. Do not be deceived by the world: it’s God we will have to convince that His word was a lie, not men. What happened in Noah’s day when the entire world rejected God? Did God spare them because there were so many? No – they all perished except for Noah and his family!

    Proverbs 9:10 ”The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.”

    God spared not His chosen people – we are kidding ourselves if we think He will spare the United States of America if we choose to blatantly turn away from Him.

    Jeremiah 12:17 ”But if they will not obey, I will utterly pluck up and destroy that nation, saith the LORD.”

    Luke 17:28-30 “So also as it was in the days of Lot: they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; (29) but the day Lot went out of Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from the heaven and destroyed them all. (30) Even so it shall be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.”

    Romans 1:18-32 “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [suppress] the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

    For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

    Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

    For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

    And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, m urder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”

    The entire Bible points out men having_sex with men is an abomination. Likewise woman having_sex with women. It’s not just Paul that pointed it out.

    Genesis 19:4-13 “But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of S odom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them [men wanting to have_sex with men].

    And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing [he offers his daughters to be_raped to keep them from having_sex with another man – shows_rape is not the issue but male on male_sex]; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

    And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.

    And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place: For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.”

    These two messengers were sent to destroy that place before the event where they tried to_rape these messengers.

    Leviticus 18:22 “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”

    Leviticus 20:13 “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination …”

    Even cross-dressing is an abomination:

    Deuteronomy 22:5 “The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.”

    Deuteronomy 23:17 “There shall be no_whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a s odomite of the sons of Israel.”

    1 Kings 22:46 “And the remnant of the s odomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.”

    1 Kings 15:11-12 “And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, as did David his father. And he took away the s odomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.”

    2 Kings 23:7 “And he brake down the houses of the s odomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.”

    Ezekiel 16:49-50 “Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister S odom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.”

    And the “pride” parades about homosexuality are more of the same.

    Matthew 19:4-5 “And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?”

    Not father and father. Not mother and mother. Not his husband.

    And only two people of opposite gender can become “one flesh”.

    Live forever, people – not temporarily only to be cast out for living for the things of this world.

    May God/Jesus Christ be glorified!

  • Herb Planter

    meh who needs god -td jakes

    /smh

  • Ben-jy Bamburg

    I think the issue is that the church is partial to sin. It’s OK if you struggle with lying or lusting, and deal with it daily, but it’s not ok to engage in a homosexual lifestyle daily. We turn a blind eye to gossipers in the prayer circle that have no interest in repenting, but condemn the LGBT community. “With the same measure you judge others, you will be judged.” Don’t tolerate sin. Don’t focus on sin. Focus on the solution to sin and you will become holy. Encourage everyone to be holy.
    Stop with the “I’m not perfect, just forgiven” mantra and start realizing you are a new creation with a new nature led by the Spirit and not the flesh. If you can’t overcome your own sin nature don’t claim they can with theirs.

    • Char Fox

      We shouldn’t be blind to gossip. I know I’ve had to pray at times over what I say, or have had to ask God’s help with my mouth.

      To me, the issue is saying God doesn’t care if you live this way because He made you this way. If we gossip and say Jesus doesn’t care if we gossip, it’s just as much a lie as saying He doesn’t care if we’re homosexual. He DOES care, and so should we. When we come to a place where we’re comfortable in our sin, we’ve come to the wrong place. Too many people use the grace card to freely sin without remorse. If we’re not remorseful about our sin, why even bother to repent?

      It’s ok that we all fall short…we always will in this life. It’s NOT ok however to be ok with it, to have no Godly sorrow over our sin, to not even want to turn away from it. Don’t mean you might not slip, but that’s not the suggestion here. Jakes is suggesting that homosexuals choose a church that believes it’s ok to practice homosexuality and still say you’ve accepted Christ. And it’s a blatantly false teaching.

  • Sola Awolaja

    Glorious Rapture: Scary Or Blessed Hope? Ideally, we may think that all Christians are eager for the imminent glorious Rapture. Although many professing Christians would most likely not admit it. However, there are some cold or lukewarm Christians/Pastors who are not eager for the imminent glorious Rapture. Some lukewarm Pastors and lukewarm Christians did not want Lord Jesus Christ to return in their life time while some want Him to delay His coming for the next 50 years or more inspite of numerous Rapture alert warnings every year from Lord Jesus Christ. They are behaving like lukewarm Laodiceans (Revelation 3: 14-22).

    Some lukewarm Christians/Pastors are worldly and pleasure loving. They are scared of imminent glorious Rapture because they assume that the return of Lord Jesus Christ in the air on imminent glorious Rapture day will affect their earthly programs and daily activities. They are so much in love with the world. They want to enjoy continuously and actualize all their earthly aspirations until grand old age. According to Apostle Paul, “while we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord.” (2 Corinthians 5:6). If we are too materialistic, not keen about soul winning, if our heart and homes are not in Heaven, we will not be very eager for the imminent glorious Rapture. If you are a true born again Christian, you have nothing to fear presently. We are still in the grace period, not the Great Tribulation period. Glorious Rapture has not taken place yet. Mark of the Beast (RFID chip/human barcode: 666) will only be enforced worldwide during the Great Tribulation period by Antichrist after the imminent glorious Rapture (Revelation 13:16-18).

    People must be ready always for imminent glorious Rapture. Indeed, people worldwide must be perpetually prepared for the imminent glorious Rapture. Rapture is an unpopular topic in lukewarm churches today and so many lukewarm Christians/Pastors and unbelievers care less about it because it is not as enticing and motivating as prosperity, breakthrough, new things, favors, blessing and earthly success. However, glorious Rapture is a daily expectation and thought of the wise Christians while prosperity and earthly blessings are the only major focus for the lukewarm Christians/Pastors and unbelievers. Prosperity and earthly blessings are essential but we must also be Heavenly minded and always ready for the glorious Rapture which is an imminent prophetic event (1 Thessalonians 4:15-18; 1 Corinthians 15:51-53).

    Apart from thinking, waiting, preparing or expecting prosperity, miracle or anything else, we must also be ready always for the imminent glorious Rapture. The reason is because only those who earnestly, eagerly wait and prepare for His (Lord Jesus Christ) appearance more than anything else will eventually become raptured, just like the Biblical 5 wise virgins (Rapture-ready born again Christians). The 5 foolish virgins (lukewarm Christians/Pastors) were left behind due to their lukewarm, spiritual attitude. Read Matthew 25 for the full parable of the 10 virgins who were awaiting the coming of the “bride-groom” (Lord Jesus Christ).

    Indeed, time is running out. Presently worldwide, there are numerous warning signs of imminent glorious Rapture and urgent warning messages from Lord Jesus Christ. It is true we can’t know the day or hour of imminent glorious Rapture. However, we must be ready always for the imminent glorious Rapture. We must not be afraid or become Rapture-phobic. We must never give up our glorious Rapture blessed hope. Our glorious Rapture blessed hope is an imminent reality by God’s grace. We will become Raptured on imminent glorious Rapture day by God’s grace. Many lost souls are perishing daily in eternal burning Hell fire. As active soul winners, we must continuously populate the Heavenly kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ with numerous souls. As an active soul winner for our Lord Jesus Christ, your eternal Heavenly rewards and Heavenly treasures are awaiting you in Heaven. We will get our glorious crowns at the Heavenly Judgment Seat of Christ (Romans 14:10-12; 2 Corinthians 5:10) and live in our Heavenly glorious mansions forever by God’s grace. Amen.

  • Mike Lewis

    Sounds like an evolving money grab

  • Christopher Hanscom

    I am not perfect and No Christian can claim that they are. However, to compare women wearing a head cover to Homosexual guidelines in the Bible as being able to Evolve is nothing but Satan’s work in our Nation.

    The Bible tells women to be Modest in their dress, so yes if you want to include a head cover then feel free. The Bible however is still clear about Homosexuality in the Christian life. THIS HAS NOT CHANGED whether using Old or New Testament references.

    Our Society is evolving but GOD IS NOT. It is not up to us to make God Change as has already been noted below, it is up to us to change to meet God’s requirements. If you are only listening and not studying yourself then you are being lead astray.

    You cannot not call yourself a Christian and be a homosexual. Remember the meaning of the word Christian- To Be Christ Like, this should be the goal of every Christian, to be like him, not make him like us.

    Yes God is love that is why Christ was sent to us, but he is also just and we each will pay the price for our Daily sin. Just Keep in mind just because we have the right to go to God every day and repent of our Sins, it doesn’t include repeating that sin over and over. Proper repentance includes a turning from the sin.

    • Char Fox

      There’s always those who know just enough Scripture to use it as a weapon against Christianity. But they fail to read in context or actually learn anything from it.

      They read verses 5 and 6 that a woman should cover her head…not that God or Jesus ever commanded this. But they won’t start at the top…

      2 I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the ***traditions*** just as I passed them on to you.

      It used to be a Pentecostal tradition not to wear jewelry or makeup, or go swimming with the opposite sex.

      What did Jesus say about tradition?

      Matthew 15:3 He answered them, “And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?

      Matthew 15:6 He need not honor his father.’ So for the sake of your tradition you have made void the word of God.

      Yet the OT is full of Scripture about sexual immorality, the very reason God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. And Jesus’s own words were:

      “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness.”

      It’s like the “don’t judge” phrase often used…incorrectly of course. But they only want it as a weapon, not to learn.

  • Lori Greenhill Sharpe

    The Word says that in the last days, even the Elect will be deceived. You claim to have Jesus a team the center of all you do, and be wrapped up following the ways of the World. God says He is not a man, that HE should lie. He also said that He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. His standard doesn’t change, we do. If you look like the world, YOU are the one who has changed.
    I would be ashamed to say I am a Man of God, yet lie and lead your congregants astray, simply because you want to fit in with the world. How can you be, Mr Jakes, when you have spent millions on a building and it’s lavish furnishings, built in one of the most poverty stricken areas of Dallas, while people are digging in the trash for food? 1Corinthians 5:9-13
    The things you compare in your comments are like apples and hammers. Wearing a head scarf was a ceremonial rule established to denote the Jews being a Holy people, and was not a moral law. Homosexuality is an abomination that goes against God’s moral law. Totally different category. Ceremonial laws were created to establish the Jews as His people, and were to remind them of how important it was to keep themselves from assimilating the pagan and sinful culture of the people the would be among. Moral laws were destructive in nature and lead to spiritual and physical death. Do not mistake God’s patience and long suffering as acceptance of LGBT culture. Wrong is wrong no matter which church you choose to hide your sin in.
    To be fair, homosexuality is not the only abomination listed in the Bible. 1Timothy 1:10. Romans 1:18-32. (Likewise, one must not fall into the trap of identifying someone by their sin. A homosexual should be seen as a person who commits homosexuality. A sinner is not the sin that person commits. God loves them just as much as He does anyone else, as He is no respecter of persons. He doesn’t love you anymore than He does them.)

  • disqus_mo8ewPYVck

    Attention Christians:

    If you no longer agree with what your church or Pastor says, just change churches.

    Really?

    There is a Bible out now that has perforated pages!! That’s right, just tear out the parts you don’t like.

    If you can say we are not in the end times; you need to re-assess what you truly believe.

    • Char Fox

      >>>There is a Bible out now that has perforated pages!!

      ROFL!!!!

  • Jill Sawyer

    Im sorry to disagree with you TD for this country was INDEED based on Judeo-Christian values…our forefathers DID go to church, they read the bible AND they worshipped together….in FACT the senate building in DC was indeed used as a church AND one of our forefather presidents was a preacher AND held the services in the senate building….AND they also opened every congressional session with a prayer….

  • Max Ervin sr

    simple answer is what does the bible say!!! I haven’t heard a man who preaches or teaches speak the truth of the scriptures yet!!!

  • zanmirrob .

    Get away from these fake christian leaders. They are self serving politically correct sycophants. They will take you to hell in a handbasket.
    The Canadian government are despotic anti-libertarian pigs. Since when has disagreeance been a hate crime? Do they have religious discrimination laws? Then if you don’t agree with a particular religion you are guilty of hate crimes. Why would anyone in their right mind vote for these lowlife snakes?