Obama Issues Proclamation for Religious Freedom Day

Bible-cross-pdWASHINGTON — As Saturday marked the 23rd annual Religious Freedom Day, Barack Obama released a statement recognizing the religious rights of Americans, while some Christian leaders expressed concern over the Obama administration’s infringements upon religious rights.

Religious Freedom Day, first proclaimed nationally in 1993, is based on the enactment of the 1786 Virginia Statute on Religious Freedom. The law was drafted by Thomas Jefferson and became an influence in the crafting of the First Amendment.

The Virginia Statute declared in part that “to compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical.”

“Since our country’s founding, religious freedom has been heralded as one of our most cherished ideals,” Obama said in his proclamation.

“The right to practice religion freely has brought immigrants from all over the world to our shores, often in the face of great adversity, so they could live their lives in accordance with the dictates of their consciences,” he continued. “Some of America’s earliest settlers, the Pilgrims, arrived at our shores in search of a more tolerant society, free from religious persecution.”

Obama said that the White House has been working to protect the freedoms of Americans of all religions, and vowed to continue to do so.

“[M]y Administration is working to preserve religious liberty and enforce civil rights laws that protect religious freedom—including laws that protect employees from religious discrimination and require reasonable accommodation of religious practices on the job,” he stated.

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“We will also continue to protect students from discrimination and harassment that is based on their faith, and we will continue to enforce hate crime laws, including those perpetrated based on a person’s actual or perceived religion,” Obama continued. “This work is crucial, particularly given the recent spike in reports of threats and violence against houses of worship, children, and adults simply because of their religious affiliation.”

But some pointed out the irony of Obama’s proclamation in light of his administration’s actions in recent years. Ken Ham of Answers in Genesis said that Saturday could have instead been dubbed “Religious Erosion Day.”

“Sadly, Christians are increasingly being punished for standing on God’s word and living according to our beliefs based on the Bible. We’re seeing this happen over and over again—usually in regard to gay ‘marriage’ and the sanctity of life,” he wrote in a blog post. “Christians are being forced to affirm gay ‘marriages,’ and Christian organizations and companies are being told they better provide abortion services and medical insurance that includes abortive contraceptives and even abortion—or else!”

“In a recent address Obama even said that gay ‘marriage’ trumps religious freedom!” Ham stated. “He doesn’t really support religious freedom for everyone—he supports his own definition of freedom, one that increasingly excludes Bible-believing Christians from these protections and imposes an anti-God religion on the culture.”

But he exhorted Christians to be thankful for the liberties that we still have and to not neglect to obey Christ’s command to be salt and light in our nation.

“As Christians, we need to be bold in standing on God’s word, refusing to compromise with our increasingly secular culture. We need to be salt and light, spreading the message of the good news of the gospel to this world—this is what will change hearts and minds for now and eternity,” Ham declared. “We are free from the burden of our sin and death (Romans 6:22) because of what Jesus did for us on the cross. And that is true freedom that can never be taken away by any government or legislature!”

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  • madgrandma

    I love Ken Ham… He is every so correct here. And, NO Mr. Obama, Gay “rights” do NOT “trump” religious rights… One is old and ‘settled law’ from GOD and one is new and ‘obamified’ law… It will not stand the test of time.

    • Josey


    • acontraryview

      So then if a person holds a sincerely held religious belief that the races should not mix, they should be able to impose that belief on others, correct?

  • Marjorie Owensby

    The article on foods at Chinese Walmarts is really about hic sensationalism. It will only make sense to the uneducated and bigoted. Wake up America. Embrace the diversity.

  • “To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical.”

    Climate change.
    Gay marriage.

    Your tax dollars at work.

    • George Forleo

      well said

    • gizmo23

      Oil company subsides
      Chemical weapons
      Tax breaks for the wealthy
      Defense contractors

      • afchief

        What’s your point?

        • gizmo23

          We all pay for things we don’t like

          • afchief

            None of those are sinful. Everything 0lawless does is a lie, lawless, anti-american or anti-christian. EVERYTHING!!!

          • Josey

            so true!

          • gizmo23

            So you would be for sending him to prison because you don’t like him

          • afchief

            I could list numerous Constitution violations by this man. Do I need to list them for you? Because I will!!!

          • gizmo23

            Go ahead and waste your time

          • afchief

            25 Violations of Law By President Obama and His Administration

            Obama Administration uses IRS to target conservative, Christian and pro-Israel organizations, donors, and citizens.

            In an unprecedented attack on the First Amendment, the Obama Justice Department ordered criminal investigations of FOX News reporters for doing their jobs during the 2012 election year.

            President Obama, throughout his Presidency, has refused to enforce long-established U.S. immigration laws. For example . . .

            More than 300,000 captured illegal aliens had been processed and were awaiting deportation. But, incredibly, Obama stopped these deportations and ordered the U.S. border patrol to release many of these illegal aliens in violation of law and without explanation.

            Congress rejected Obama’s so called DREAM ACT – which would have granted permanent residency to many illegal aliens. So Obama enacted his own version of the DREAM ACT by Executive Order, thus directly defying Congress. According to Obama’s Executive Order, illegal aliens can stay in America if they are under the age of 30, have been in America for at least five years, are enrolled in school or have graduated from high school, and have committed no felonies.

            Obama has refused to build a double-barrier security fence along the U.S.-Mexican border in direct violation of the 2006 Secure Fence Act. This law requires that “at least two layers of reinforced fencing” be built along America’s 650-mile border with Mexico. So far, just 40 miles of this fence have been built – most of it during the Bush Administration.

            Obama’s unconstitutional assault on your Second Amendment Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

            President Obama issued, in one day, 21 separate Executive Orders that attack and undermine your Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms.

            Especially egregious is President Obama’s Executive Orders amending the ObamaCare law to allow doctors and hospitals to investigate which patients own a gun. This outrageous Executive Order could allow the federal government to track and monitor law-abiding gun owners simply because they sought medical care.

            Obama’s assault on Christians and religious freedom.

            Obama’s Health and Human Services Department has, on its own (without Congressional approval), issued a mandate that all health insurance plans must include coverage for abortion-inducing drugs. As a result, pro-life employers and taxpayers are now effectively required by law to pay for abortions.

            This mandate is an unconstitutional attack on the protections for freedom of religion and freedom of conscience in the First Amendment and the 1993 Religious Freedom Restoration Act. This mandate also directly violates the ObamaCare law enacted by Congress, which prohibits any and all taxpayer funds from being used to pay for abortions.

            Obama forced ObamaCare on an unwilling public through bribery and lying about its cost.

            Obama managed to secure passage of ObamaCare by one vote in the Senate by bribing senators. He bribed Senator Ben Nelson of Nebraska with the notorious “Cornhusker Kickback.” He bribed Senator Mary Landrieu with the infamous $300 million “Louisiana Purchase.”

            In addition, Obama knowingly and blatantly lied to America and to Congress about how much ObamaCare would really cost. The cost of ObamaCare to the American people over the next 10 years will not be less than $1 TRILLION, as Obama promised in his nationally televised speech to the nation. Instead, the real cost of ObamaCare to the Federal Treasury is $2.4 TRILLION, according to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office.

            But the true cost of ObamaCare is more like $10 TRILLION when you factor in the cost to the states, the cost to individual Americans who are now required to purchase Obama-approved health plans (the “Individual Mandate”), the cost of exploding health insurance premiums, the $716 billion ObamaCare steals from Medicare, and the increased cost to businesses of complying with ObamaCare mandates.

            Operation Fast & Furious.

            “Operation Fast & Furious” was the Obama Administration’s gun-running scheme that put thousands of American-made semi-automatic weapons in the hands of Mexican drug cartels and resulted in the death of at least one U.S. Border Patrol Agent, Brian Terry. Obama’s Attorney General Eric Holder lied to Congress and the public, claiming he didn’t know about his Justice Department’s Fast & Furious operation.

            Congress has now held Holder in contempt for defying congressional subpoenas and refusing to turn over thousands of Justice Department documents on Fast & Furious. President Obama asserted Executive Privilege to try to protect Holder. But for Executive Privilege to apply, Obama would have had to have known about Fast & Furious, making the President as culpable as Holder.

            Investigators suspect that Fast & Furious was an effort by the Obama Administration to discredit lawful gun ownership in America by purposefully creating gun crimes, thus inducing public outcry for gun control. When it put thousands of semi-automatic weapons in the hands of Mexican drug cartels, the Obama Justice Department knew these guns would be used to commit crimes, perhaps even kill some Americans. Then Obama could say: “See how dangerous these guns are. We must ban them.”

            “Federal Communications Commission (FCC): Regulated the Internet despite a court order from the Circuit Court of Appeals for Washington, D.C. stating that the FCC does not have the power to regulate the Internet.” (SOURCE: Report from Nine State Attorneys General)

            “Environmental Protection Agency (EPA): Imposed Cross-State Air Pollution Rules on the state of Texas at the last minute and without an opportunity for Texas to respond to the proposed regulation. EPA overreach was based on a dubious claim that air pollution from Texas affected a single air-quality monitor in Granite City, Illinois more than 500 miles and three states away from Texas.” (SOURCE: Report from Nine State Attorneys General)

            “Department of Justice (DOJ): Rejected state voter ID statutes that are similar to those already approved by the Supreme Court of the United States. DOJ ignored section 8 of the Voting Rights Act which calls for protections against voter fraud, and used section 5 to administratively block measures to protect the integrity of elections passed by state legislatures.” (SOURCE: Report from Nine State Attorneys General)

            “DOJ: In violation of 10th Amendment, sued to prevent Arizona from using reasonable measures to discourage illegal immigration within its borders. Arizona has a large number of illegal immigrants, compared to other states, and needs to be able to act to reduce the number.” (SOURCE: Report from Nine State Attorneys General)

            “DOJ: Went to court to stop enforcement of Alabama’s immigration reform laws, which require collection of the immigration status of public school students, require businesses to use E-Verify, and prohibit illegal immigrants from receiving public benefits.” (SOURCE: Report from Nine State Attorneys General)

            “White House: Made “recess appointments” to the National Labor Relations Board and Consumer Financial Protection Bureau when Congress was NOT in recess. The Obama Administration has ignored the ruling by the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals that the appointments are unconstitutional.” (SOURCE: Report from Nine State Attorneys General)

            “Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC): Interfered with a Michigan church’s selection of its own ministers by trying to force the church to reinstate a minister who was discharged for her disagreement with the religious doctrine of the church.” (SOURCE: Report from Nine State Attorneys General)

            “Department of Energy (DOE): In 2009, the Obama Administration arbitrarily broke federal law, violated various contracts, and derailed the most studied energy project in American history at Yucca Mountain by denying it a license, thus costing the American people more than $31 billion.” (SOURCE: Report from Nine State Attorneys General)

            Department of the Interior (DOI): Forced Glendale, a family-oriented town in Arizona, to become another Las Vegas against its will by granting “reservation status” to a 54-acre plot in the town, where the Tohono O’odham Indian Nation plans to build a resort and casino.” (SOURCE: Report from Nine State Attorneys General)

            Without Congressional approval, Obama gutted the work requirement for welfare recipients passed by Congress and signed into law by President Bill Clinton.

            In the bailout of General Motors and Chrysler, Obama illegally shortchanged bond holders in favor of Labor Unions, despite U.S. bankruptcy laws that specify that bond holders be first in line to be paid back.

            Eager to use the killing of Osama bin Laden for political gain, Obama exposed the identity and method of operation of the Navy SEALs team that conducted the operation in Pakistan, thus exposing its members to a lifetime of risk because they have been targeted for assassination by Islamists. A short time after Obama exposed the Navy SEALs’ method of operation, 22 SEALs were shot down and killed in Afghanistan. It is a violation of law for the President or any American to reveal classified military secrets.

            President Obama established an extra-constitutional top secret “kill list” of people (including Americans) who can be summarily killed on sight – presumably by drones — without due process. Once on Obama’s kill list, an American citizen can be targeted and executed on the opinion of a single government bureaucrat. That’s not how our legal system is supposed to work.

            Obama Administration officials twisted the arms of defense contractors to not issue layoff notices in October of 2012 so as to avoid causing bad news for Obama right before the election — even though federal law (the “WARN Act”) requires such notices. ; Not only is this a violation of the WARN Act, it’s also an unlawful use of federal officials for campaign purposes.

            President Obama intervened militarily in Libya in 2011 without the Congressional approval required by the War Powers Act.

            Obama knowingly lied to Congress and the American people about the killing of U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans in Benghazi, Libya. The President and his representatives repeatedly said an anti-Islamic video sparked a spontaneous uprising in Libya that resulted in the killings even though Obama knew that the attack was a well-planned military-style assault by al Qaeda on the anniversary of September 11.

            Michelle Obama’s family trip to Africa in June of 2011, including a private safari at a South African game reserve, cost American taxpayers $424,000 for air travel alone. Mrs. Obama brought along both her makeup artist and hairstylist, as well as her mother, a niece and nephew, and her daughters, who were listed as “senior staff members.”

          • gizmo23

            I am not even going to read this

          • afchief

            Because the truth is the enemy of liberals.

          • afchief

            A List of Obama’s Constitutional Violations

            “I was a constitutional law professor, which means unlike the current president I actually respect the Constitution.” Barrack Hussein Obama. Obama took the Presidential Oath, swearing to “.. preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States” but has:

             Used Executive Action in direct opposition to the law, and unilaterally changes the law for at least five million illegal aliens; Article 1 Section 1, ALL Legislative power held by Congress; “he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed,” Article II Section 3; Article I Section 8

             In direct violation of ACA Law ( Section 36B ) ordered subsidies be paid under Federal Exchange. Article. I. Section. 1; Article II, Section 3.

             *Entered Treaty Agreement with Iran without Advice & Consent of the Senate. No agreement (including one with the UN) is valid without 2/3 Senate approval. Article II Section 2.

             Operation Choke Point program – Direct infringement on 2nd Amendment.

             Violated statute on “Material Support of Terrorism” by returning top terrorists back to terrorist organizations. Article II Section 3; Dereliction of Duty Article II Section 4

             Violated Appropriations Act (DOD Section 8111) – GAO report; Article II Section 3

             Ignored law that requires Congress be notified prior to any detainees being moved from Guantanamo. “he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed,” Article II Section 3

             Using EPA to “legislate” over States, Congress, and Federal Court; Article II Section 3; Article I Section 8; Direct violation of Presidential Oath.

             Appointed 24+ Federal agency czars without advice and consent of the Senate; Violation of Article II Section 2

             Used Executive Privilege in regards to Fast & Furious gun running scandal. When Government misconduct is the concern Executive privilege is negated.

             23 Executive Orders on gun control – infringement of the 2nd Amendment

             Exposed identity and methods of operation of a Navy SEALs team – Illegal for a President to reveal classified military secrets. Article II Section 3

             2 Executive actions mandating private health information on patients be turned over to NICS – Violation of HIPPA law.

             Executive Order bypassing Congress on immigration – Article 1 Section 1, ALL Legislative power held by Congress; Article II Section 3; Article I Section 8

             Unilaterally issued new exemptions to immigration restrictions law that bars certain asylum-seekers and refugees who provided “limited material support” to t

            errorists. – Article 1 Section 1; Article I Section 8 Congress shall have the Power..to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization.

             Issued directive instructing ICE to NOT enforce immigration laws in certain cases. Article 1 Section 1, ALL Legislative power held by Congress; “he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed,” Article II Section 3; Article I Section 8

             Release of convicted illegal aliens ordered in direct opposition to law-Article II Section 3

             Expanded executive action for amnesty to illegal immigrant relatives of DREAM Act beneficiaries. Article 1 Section 1, ALL Legislative power held by Congress; “he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed,” Article II Section 3; Article I Section 8

             Executive action directing DHS that almost all immigration offenses were unenforceable absent a separate criminal conviction. Article 1 Section 1, ALL Legislative power held by Congress; “he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed,” Article II Section 3; Article I Section 8

             Ignoring Law (2006 Secure Fence Act) “he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed,” Article II Section 3

             Used DOJ to ignore section 8 of the Voting Rights Act. ” he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed,” Article II Section 3

             Used DOJ to prevent Arizona and Alabama from enforcing immigration laws. – 10th Amendment

             Information memorandum telling states that they can waive the work requirement for welfare recipients, thereby altering the 1996 welfare reform law. – Article 1 Section 1, ALL Legislative power held by Congress.

             Used NLRB to dictate to a business where they can do business. (Boeing Dreamliner Plant). No Constitutional authority to do so.

             NDAA – Section 1021. Due process Rights negated. Violation of 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th Amendments.

             Executive Order 13603 NDRP – Government can seize anything

             Executive Order 13524 – Gives INTERPOL jurisdiction on American soil beyond law enforcement agencies, including the FBI.

             Executive Order 13636 Infrastructure Cybersecurity – Bypassing Congress Article 1 Section 1, ALL Legislative power held by Congress

             Attempt to tax political contributions – 1st Amendment

             DOMA Law – Obama directed DOJ to ignore the Constitution and separation of powers and not enforce the law. ” he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed,” Article II Section 3

             Dodd-Frank – Due process and separation of powers. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau writing and interpreting law. Article. I. Section. 1

             Drone strikes on American Citizens – 5th Amendment Due process Rights negated

             Bypassed Congress and gave EPA power to advance Cap-n-Trade

             Attempt for Graphic tobacco warnings (under appeal) – 1st Amendment

             Four Exec. appointments – Senate was NOT in recess (Court has ruled unconstitutional yet the appointees still remain)

             Obama took Chairmanship of UN Security Council – Violation of Section 9.

             ACA (Obamacare) mandate – SCOTUS rewrote legislation and made it a tax because there is no Constitutional authority for Congress to force Americans to engage in commerce. SCOTUS has no authority to Legislate or lay taxes. Article I Section 1 & 8.

             Contraceptive, abortifacients mandate violation of First Ammendment

             Healthcare waivers – No president has dispensing powers

             Refuses to acknowledge state’s 10th Amendment rights to nullify Obamacare

             Going after states (AZ lawsuit) for upholding Federal law (immigration) -10th Amendment.

             Chrysler Bailout -TARP – violated creditors rights and bankruptcy law, as well as Takings and Due Process Clauses – 5th Amendment (G.W. Bush also illegally used TARP funds for bailouts)

             The Independent Payment Advisory Board (appointees by the president). Any decisions by IPAB will instantly become law starting in 2014 – Separation of Powers, Article 1 Section 1.

             Congress did not approve Obama’s war in Libya. Article I, Section 8, First illegal war U.S. has engaged in. Impeachable under Article II, Section 4; War Powers Act – Article II Section 3.

             Obama falsely claims UN can usurp Congressional war powers.

             Obama has acted outside the constitutional power given him – this in itself is unconstitutional.

             Bribery of Senator Ben Nelson and Senator Mary Landrey. (Cornhusker Kickback and Louisiana Purchase) Article II, Section 4.

             With the approval of Obama, the NSA and the FBI are tapping directly into the servers of 9 internet companies to gain access to emails, video/audio, photos, documents, etc. This program is code named PRISM. NSA also collecting data on all phone calls in U.S. – Violation of 4th Amendment.

             Directed signing of U.N. Firearms treaty – 2nd Amendment.

             The Senate/Obama immigration bill (approved by both) raises revenue – Section 7. All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives

             Obama altered law – (A president has no authority to alter law) Delayed upholding the Employer Mandate Law (ACA) until 2015 – Individual Mandate will be enforced. A President does not have that authority – Article. I. Section. 1. All legislative Powersherein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States; The president “shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed” -Article II, Section 3; Equal Protection Clause -14th Amendment.

             Obama altered law – ACA Medicare cuts delayed until 2015. Article. I. Section. 1; Article II, Section 3.

             Obama altered law – Enforcement of eligibility requirements for ACA delayed until 2015. Article. I. Section. 1; Article II, Section 3.

             Obama wavered ACA Income Verification Article. I. Section. 1; Article II, Section 3.

             Obama altered law – Delayed ACA caps on out of pocket expenses until 2015. (when implemented premiums will skyrocket) Article. I. Section. 1; Article II, Section 3.

             Obama ignored judicial order to fulfill legal obligation regarding Yucca Mountain waste. Article II, Section 3

             Waived Federal provision that prevents U.S. From arming terrorist groups – Article I. Section 1; Impeachable under Article III, Section 3.

             Directed State Department HS to ignore law barring entry to U.S. those giving political or charitable aid to known terrorist groups. Article. I. Section. 1; Article II, Section 3.

             Obama shelves part of the ACA Law for Insurers, extending the life of non-qualifying (according to ACA) plans until Jan. 1, 2015. Article. I. Section. 1; Article II, Section 3. Violation of the Take Care Clause, Separation of Powers.

             Obama waved ACA individual mandate for those that lost their insurance. Article. I. Section. 1; Article II, Section 3. Violation of the Take Care Clause, Separation of Powers.

             Obama alters ACA law and exempts companies employing between 50-100 full-time workers from business mandate until 2016. Article. I. Section. 1; Article II, Section 3.

             In total, Obama has unilaterally altered ACA 24 times. Article. I. Section. 1; Article II, Section 3. Violation of the Take Care Clause, Separation of Powers.

          • D.M.S.

            I did, and enjoyed reading every bit of truth.

          • D.M.S.

            Thanks, I enjoyed reading it.

    • Josey

      at waste!

    • acontraryview

      It refers to religious opinions and beliefs. None of the items you mentioned are religious opinions.

  • gizmo23

    Gay marriage has not hurt a single religious person nor taken away anyone’s rights

    • Nidalap

      It’s been used as a useful foil to attack bakers, county clerks, and farmers who let folks marry on their land. You know this, it’s just that you’re okay with it. Just Christians after all. Just like the Jews of 1930’s Germany, they deserve it, right?

      • gizmo23

        Even Christians must follow laws. Can’t follow them, don’t go into business or take a job that violates your beliefs

        • Greg Franklin

          Ok if I am the owner of my own company and I go with God law over àny any matter you saying I shouldn’t feed my family because the the public has Authority over my master! That dog don’t hunt.

          • gizmo23

            I’m saying no one is stopping you from following Gods law, but if it goes against man’s law you have a choice to make. Make it and live with the consequences. If you can’t move your business to an area where there is no law against sexual discrimmination or convince enough people in your area to chance the law

        • Nidalap

          Yes, yes. The Jews I mentioned suddenly found themselves afoul of laws they hadn’t been guilty of before too. But, you know, the Third Reich WAS rolling on in. Guess they were just “on the wrong side of history”, hmm?

          • Josey

            yep, guess the tyranny they experienced was just par for the course as gizmo claims, wait till the shoe is on the other foot, soon very soon bet you gizmo has a different reaction then…but of course it will be too late and no one will be listening to him/her.

          • Valri

            If your church has a hate on for homosexuals and spit on their requests that you treat them like human beings and give them equal rights, NOBODY is telling you that you can’t belong to such a church. In fact I’m sure you do. The issue is that your church’s rules extend only as far as the walls of the church themselves. You aren’t lawmakers and if you own a business open to the public, it isn’t your church anymore. It’s a public business, where the law is the law, and if you discriminate against homosexuals, you will pay the price. That’s irrespective of your religion. If you were Muslim and did the same thing you’d pay, too. So I really fail to see how this is a matter of the poor misunderstood Christians being treated unfairly.

          • Josey

            Funny how we don’t see news reports of Muslims discriminating and we won’t hear of those cases because Muslims accused of discrimination or criticism would insist it is a hate crime and get away with it. You show me one case where a mosque accepts professing sodomites into their mosques, there aren’t any such cases for they preach against it among other things such as segregating the men from the women, treating women as dogs. BTW, churches are not turning away sodomites, adulterers, etc. but they would be going against God’s word if these who claim they are still actively participating in depraved acts and sin are allowed into positions of authority in the church. Jesus welcomes all sinners for we have all fallen short of His glory and He offers deliverance and freedom from our sins through the sacrifice of His becoming a sin substitute for us, He bore our transgressions but we have to come and repent of the old lifestyle and accept the new by being born again. Even new baby Christians are not put into positions of authority for they need to be established in the word of God, tested and tried, they have to learn to crawl before they walk so to speak. So, it is not discrimination for the leaders of churches to appoint who they will into whatever position they see fit as they follow God’s word in these matters. The same goes for a business, I don’t worry about paying a price while I am obeying God above man, He is greater than all! The truth be known it is people like you who are going to pay a huge consequence when God rises up in judgement against all ungodliness and those who promote it will find the greater condemnation. Woe unto you who calls evil good and good evil!

          • Valri

            Wow Josey. Your hatred just shines through in your words. “Professing sodomites” eh? Can’t just say homosexual? I know that’s what you MEAN to say, but I hope you realize that “sodomite” describes an act which straight people also engage in, right? But I’m sure you meant it in the most derogatory and hateful way possible, so don’t worry, your meaning was understood.

            You’re expecting homosexuals to show up at your church saying sorry for all the nasty sex which straight people are allowed to have but they aren’t. To beg forgiveness for having no attraction whatsoever to the opposite sex. To say, God, sorry for falling in love, what a terrible thing we’ve done and we promise never to do it again and we’ll live loveless and sexless lives because that’s what you want.

            Give your head a shake, Josey. Your religion is vile and repugnant and has nothing to do with obeying God and everything to do with judging and condemning people you don’t like. I’m not even going to get started on your racist anti-Muslim comments.

          • Josey

            Hey, calling it as God Almighty calls it, SODOMY.

          • Valri

            Call it whatever you like, it isn’t something you can pin solely on gay people since many straight people do it too.

          • D.M.S.

            And the heterosexuals will suffer in the ‘ Lake of Fire ‘ right along with the lgbt. That perform this Sinful act.

          • Valri

            What a loving Christian attitude!
            No, somehow I suspect this is more of your paranoid revenge fantasy. I picture you on the sidelines munching popcorn giving God the rah rah rah as he throws all the people you hate into the fire.

          • D.M.S.

            I’m sure eventually Christian churches will be forced to comply with the lgbt or glaad, accept us or else suffer the consequences.

          • gizmo23

            Murdering people is a far cry from having someone sell something or renting a public space. Comparing the 2 is sick

          • D.M.S.

            No, it’s the same.

          • Valri

            People fought for same sex marriage rights, as a human rights issue. This resulted in changes to the law.

            Were the German people fighting to have Jews executed?

            Is this REALLY the analogy you want to use?

          • D.M.S.

            In away I should thank you for helping with our human demise.
            2 Peter 3:11-12.

          • Valri

            Listen to yourself.

            If your religion wants to see us demised, we need to protect ourselves from people like you.

          • D.M.S.

            No, you don’t understand its liberalism that’s going to get everyone killed. Liberals believe in negotiation, they will bend over backwards for negotiations. Fanatical ISIS and their brethren don’t negotiate. Liberals don’t understand that mentality. Liberals are striving for a utopian society, something that they will NEVER recieve. Christians want a Christian society. Which is exactly what we will recieve very soon, when our Lord Yeshua returns.
            Praise the Lord!

          • Valri

            I like people who negotiate. They are attempting to bridge a gap that will never BE gapped as long as people continue to be rigid and unreasonable. The only time you do NOT negotiate is when people like ISIS are killing innocent human beings, then you step in and intervene.

            It’s so interesting what you say, one second you’re saying liberalism is bad because it’s going to get everyone killed because they are willing to negotiate, then right after that you say fanatics like ISIS don’t negotiate. So you’re saying it’s better to be like ISIS? What???

            As a matter of fact, fundamentalist religion, whether it’s Islam OR Christianity, is the problem because you guys are so convinced that you’re acting on God’s direct orders that you don’t listen to the voice of reason telling you to stop your hatred. And that just gets reinforced when people like you sound like you’re demanding nothing less than a Christian theocracy. People like you are dangerous.

          • D.M.S.

            All I’m saying is that we need to know who our enemies are and make sure that our enemies know that, we know how they are. That we are willing to negotiate, but don’t play us for fools. Because we will not tolerate it, and they have to believe that we won’t tolerate that behavior.

          • Bob Johnson

            Okay, but negotiating means compromise and you do not seem willing to compromise on any issue. Your position seems to be my way or you will go to hell.

            Yes, maybe those will folks will go to hell. (Maybe you and I will go to hell, for I do not know God’s will.)

            Determine for yourself, how will you negotiate? How will you integrate into a society that does not share all of your views? How do you make peace with those who hold different views?

          • D.M.S.

            I’m going to negotiate my Christian faith to others. If they don’t accept it, I move on to the next negotiation of faith in our Lord to others. I don’t have much to do with those of differing veiws. Scripture states that we Christians are to have fellowship with other Christian we help each other in our prayers for one another. There are many Christians that I have gotten to know online, and I pray for all of them to succeed in there Christian endeavors. In answer to your last question. I don’t!

      • acontraryview

        “It’s been used as a useful foil to attack bakers, county clerks, and farmers who let folks marry on their land.”

        That has to do with anti-discrimination laws, not marriage laws. They are distinct and separate.

        • Nidalap

          Mary, Mary, QUITE contrary! 🙂

          • Josey


          • acontraryview

            I don’t understand your comment. Are you saying that marriage laws and anti-discrimination laws are NOT distinct and separate?

      • Valri

        So they aren’t really interested in getting married at all, they are only doing it to “attack” specifically CHRISTIAN bakers, county clerks and farmers? You actually believe THAT is their motivation, and marriage is not?

      • Ambulance Chaser

        States legalizing gay marriage is not states enacting public accommodation anti-discrimination laws.

        We can have a discussion about either, but you can’t conflate the two.

    • afchief

      0liar is no Christian. He is evil! Pure evil!!!

      • Valri

        He is a Christian. There is a whole world of conspiracy theories out there saying he’s not. But he is.

        • afchief

          1. Acts of hostility toward people of Biblical faith:

          December 2009-Present – The annual White House Christmas cards, rather than focusing on Christmas or faith, instead highlight things such as the family dogs. And the White House Christmas tree ornaments include figures such as Mao Tse-Tung and a drag queen. [1]

          June 2013 – The Obama Department of Justice defunds a Young Marines chapter in Louisiana because their oath mentioned God, and another youth program because it permits a voluntary student-led prayer. [2]

          February 2013 – The Obama Administration announces that the rights of religious conscience for individuals will not be protected under the Affordable Care Act. [3]

          January 2013 – Pastor Louie Giglio is pressured to remove himself from praying at the inauguration after it is discovered he once preached a sermon supporting the Biblical definition of marriage.[4]

          February 2012 – The Obama administration forgives student loans in exchange for public service, but announces it will no longer forgive student loans if the public service is related to religion. [5]

          January 2012 – The Obama administration argues that the First Amendment provides no protection for churches and synagogues in hiring their pastors and rabbis. [6]

          December 2011 – The Obama administration denigrates other countries’ religious beliefs as an obstacle to radical homosexual rights. [7]

          November 2011 – President Obama opposes inclusion of President Franklin Roosevelt’s famous D-Day Prayer in the WWII Memorial. [8]

          November 2011 – Unlike previous presidents, Obama studiously avoids any religious references in his Thanksgiving speech. [9]

          August 2011 – The Obama administration releases its new health care rules that override religious conscience protections for medical workers in the areas of abortion and contraception. [10]

          April 2011 – For the first time in American history, Obama urges passage of a non-discrimination law that does not contain hiring protections for religious groups, forcing religious organizations to hire according to federal mandates without regard to the dictates of their own faith, thus eliminating conscience protection in hiring. [11]

          February 2011 – Although he filled posts in the State Department, for more than two years Obama did not fill the post of religious freedom ambassador, an official that works against religious persecution across the world; he filled it only after heavy pressure from the public and from Congress. [12]

          January 2011 – After a federal law was passed to transfer a WWI Memorial in the Mojave Desert to private ownership, the U. S. Supreme Court ruled that the cross in the memorial could continue to stand, but the Obama administration refused to allow the land to be transferred as required by law, and refused to allow the cross to be re-erected as ordered by the Court. [13]

          November 2010 – Obama misquotes the National Motto, saying it is “E pluribus unum” rather than “In God We Trust” as established by federal law. [14]

          October 19, 2010 – Obama begins deliberately omitting the phrase about “the Creator” when quoting the Declaration of Independence – an omission he has made on no less than seven occasions. [15]

          May 2009 – Obama declines to host services for the National Prayer Day (a day established by federal law) at the White House. [16]

          April 2009 – When speaking at Georgetown University, Obama orders that a monogram symbolizing Jesus’ name be covered when he is making his speech. [17]

          April 2009 – In a deliberate act of disrespect, Obama nominated three pro-abortion ambassadors to the Vatican; of course, the pro-life Vatican rejected all three. [18]

          February 2009 – Obama announces plans to revoke conscience protection for health workers who refuse to participate in medical activities that go against their beliefs, and fully implements the plan in February 2011. [19]

          April 2008 – Obama speaks disrespectfully of Christians, saying they “cling to guns or religion” and have an “antipathy to people who aren’t like them.” [20]

          2. Acts of hostility from the Obama-led military toward people of Biblical faith:

          March 2015 – A decorated Navy chaplain was prohibited from fulfilling his duty of comforting the family (or any member of the unit) after the loss of a sailor because it was feared that he would say something about faith and God. He was even banned from the base on the day of the sailor’s memorial service. [21]

          March 2015 – A highly decorated Navy SEAL chaplain was relieved of duty for providing counseling that contained religious views on things such as faith, marriage, and sexuality.​ [22]

          June 2014 – Official U. S. government personnel, both civilian and military, in Bahrain (a small Arabic nation near Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and Iran) must wear clothing that facilitates the religious observance of the Islamic holy month of Ramadan.​ [23]

          March 2014 – ​Maxell Air Force Base suddenly bans Gideons from handing out Bibles to willing recruits, a practice that had been occurring for years previously. [24]

          December 2013 – A naval facility required that two nativity scenes — scenes depicting the event that caused Christmas to be declared a national federal holiday — be removed from the base dining hall and be confined to the base chapel, thus disallowing the open public acknowledgment of this national federal holiday. [25]

          December 2013 – An Air Force base that allowed various public displays ordered the removal of one simply because it contained religious content. [26]

          October 2013 – A counter-intelligence briefing at Fort Hood tells soldiers that evangelical Christians are a threat to Americans and that for a soldier to donate to such a group “was punishable under military regulations.” [27]

          October 2013 – Catholic priests hired to serve as military chaplains are prohibited from performing Mass services at base chapels during the government financial shutdown. When they offered to freely do Mass for soldiers, without regard to whether or not the chaplains were receiving pay, they are still denied permission to do so. [28]

          October 2013 – The Air Force Academy, in response to a complaint from Mikey Weinstein’s Military Religious Freedom Foundation, makes “so help me God” optional in cadets’ honor oath. [29]

          August 2013 – A Department of Defense military training manual teaches soldiers that people who talk about “individual liberties, states’ rights, and how to make the world a better place” are “extremists.” It also lists the Founding Fathers — those “colonists who sought to free themselves from British rule” — as examples of those involved in “extremist ideologies and movements.” [30]

          August 2013 – A Senior Master Sergeant was removed from his position and reassigned because he told his openly lesbian squadron commander that she should not punish a staff sergeant who expressed his views in favor of traditional marriage. [31]

          August 2013 – The military does not provide heterosexual couples specific paid leave to travel to a state just for the purpose of being married, but it did extend these benefits to homosexual couples who want to marry, thus giving them preferential treatment not available to heterosexuals. [32]

          August 2013 – The Air Force, in the midst of having launched a series of attacks against those expressing traditional religious or moral views, invited a drag queen group to perform at a base. [33]

          July 2013 – When an Air Force sergeant with years of military service questioned a same-sex marriage ceremony performed at the Air Force Academy’s chapel, he received a letter of reprimand telling him that if he disagreed, he needed to get out of the military. His current six-year reenlistment was then reduced to only one-year, with the notification that he “be prepared to retire at the end of this year.” [34]

          July 2013 – An Air Force chaplain who posted a website article on the importance of faith and the origin of the phrase “There are no atheists in foxholes” was officially ordered to remove his post because some were offended by the use of that famous World War II phrase. [35]

          June 2013 – The U. S. Air Force, in consultation with the Pentagon, removed an inspirational painting that for years has been hanging at Mountain Home Air Force Base because its title was “Blessed Are The Peacemakers” — a phrase from Matthew 5:9 in the Bible. [36]

          June 2013 – The Obama administration “strongly objects” to a Defense Authorization amendment to protect the constitutionally-guaranteed religious rights of soldiers and chaplains, claiming that it would have an “adverse effect on good order, discipline, morale, and mission accomplishment.” [37]

          June 2013 – At a joint base in New Jersey, a video was made, based on a Super Bowl commercial, to honor First Sergeants. It stated: “On the eighth day, God looked down on His creation and said, ‘I need someone who will take care of the Airmen.’ So God created a First Sergeant.” Because the video mentioned the word “God,” the Air Force required that it be taken down. [38]

          June 2013 – An Army Master Sergeant is reprimanded, threatened with judicial action, and given a bad efficiency report, being told he was “no longer a team player,” because he voiced his support of traditional marriage at his own promotion party. [39]

          May 2013 – The Pentagon announces that “Air Force members are free to express their personal religious beliefs as long as it does not make others uncomfortable. “Proselytizing (inducing someone to convert to one’s faith) goes over that line,” [40] affirming if a sharing of faith makes someone feel uncomfortable that it could be a court-marital offense [41] — the military equivalent of a civil felony.

          May 2013 – An Air Force officer was actually made to remove a personal Bible from his own desk because it “might” appear that he was condoning the particular religion to which he belonged. [42]

          April 2013 – Officials briefing U.S. Army soldiers placed “Evangelical Christianity” and “Catholicism” in a list that also included Al-Qaeda, Muslim Brotherhood, and Hamas as examples of “religious extremism.” [43]

          April 2013 – The U.S. Army directs troops to scratch off and paint over tiny Scripture verse references that for decades had been forged into weapon scopes. [44]

          April 2013 – The Air Force creates a “religious tolerance” policy but consults only a militant atheist group to do so — a group whose leader has described military personnel who are religious as ‘spiritual rapists’ and ‘human monsters’ [45] and who also says that soldiers who proselytize are guilty of treason and sedition and should be punished to hold back a “tidal wave of fundamentalists.” [46]

          January 2013 – President Obama announced his opposition to a provision in the 2013 National Defense Authorization Act protecting the rights of conscience for military chaplains. [47]

          June 2012 – Bibles for the American military have been printed in every conflict since the American Revolution, but the Obama Administration revokes the long-standing U. S. policy of allowing military service emblems to be placed on those military Bibles. [48]

          May 2012 – The Obama administration opposed legislation to protect the rights of conscience for military chaplains who do not wish to perform same-sex marriages in violation of their strongly-held religious beliefs. [49]

          April 2012 – A checklist for Air Force Inns will no longer include ensuring that a Bible is available in rooms for those who want to use them. [50]

          February 2012 – The U. S. Military Academy at West Point disinvites three star Army general and decorated war hero Lieutenant General William G. (“Jerry”) Boykin (retired) from speaking at an event because he is an outspoken Christian. [51]

          February 2012 – The Air Force removes “God” from the patch of Rapid Capabilities Office (the word on the patch was in Latin: Dei). [52]

          February 2012 – The Army ordered Catholic chaplains not to read a letter to parishioners that their archbishop asked them to read. [53]

          November 2011 – The Air Force Academy rescinds support for Operation Christmas Child, a program to send holiday gifts to impoverished children across the world, because the program is run by a Christian charity. [54]

          November 2011 – President Obama opposes inclusion of President Franklin Roosevelt’s famous D-Day Prayer in the WWII Memorial. [55]

          November 2011 – Even while restricting and disapprobating Christian religious expressions, the Air Force Academy pays $80,000 to add a Stonehenge-like worship center for pagans, druids, witches and Wiccans at the Air Force Academy. [56]

          September 2011 – Air Force Chief of Staff prohibits commanders from notifying airmen of programs and services available to them from chaplains. [57]

          September 2011 – The Army issues guidelines for Walter Reed Medical Center stipulating that “No religious items (i.e. Bibles, reading materials and/or facts) are allowed to be given away or used during a visit.” [58]

          August 2011 – The Air Force stops teaching the Just War theory to officers in California because the course is taught by chaplains and is based on a philosophy introduced by St. Augustine in the third century AD – a theory long taught by civilized nations across the world (except now, America). [59]

          June 2011 – The Department of Veterans Affairs forbids references to God and Jesus during burial ceremonies at Houston National Cemetery. [60]

          January 2010 – Because of “concerns” raised by the Department of Defense, tiny Bible verse references that had appeared for decades on scopes and gunsights were removed. [61]

          3. Acts of hostility toward Biblical values:

          March 2014 – The Obama administration seeks funding for every type of sex-education — except that which reflects traditional moral values. [62]

          August 2013 – Non-profit charitable hospitals, especially faith-based ones, will face large fines or lose their tax-exempt status if they don’t comply with new strangling paperwork requirements related to giving free treatment to poor clients who do not have Obamacare insurance coverage. [63] Ironically, the first hospital in America was founded as a charitable institution in 1751 by Benjamin Franklin, and its logo was the Good Samaritan, with Luke 10:35 inscribed below him: “Take care of him, and I will repay thee,” being designed specifically to offer free medical care to the poor. [64] Benjamin Franklin’s hospital would likely be fined unless he placed more resources and funds into paperwork rather than helping the poor under the new faith-hostile policy of the Obama administration.

          August 2013 – USAID, a federal government agency, shut down a conference in South Korea the night before it was scheduled to take place because some of the presentations were not pro-abortion but instead presented information on abortion complications, including the problems of “preterm births, mental health issues, and maternal mortality” among women giving birth who had previous abortions. [65]

          June 2013 – The Obama Administration finalizes requirements that under the Obamacare insurance program, employers must make available abortion-causing drugs, regardless of the religious conscience objections of many employers and even despite the directive of several federal courts to protect the religious conscience of employers. [66]

          April 2013 – The United States Agency for Internal Development (USAID), an official foreign policy agency of the U.S. government, begins a program to train homosexual activists in various countries around the world to overturn traditional marriage and anti-sodomy laws, targeting first those countries with strong Catholic influences, including Ecuador, Honduras, and Guatemala. [67]

          December 2012 – Despite having campaigned to recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital, President Obama once again suspends the provisions of the Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995 which requires the United States to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and to move the American Embassy there. [68]

          July 2012 – The Pentagon, for the first time, allows service members to wear their uniforms while marching in a parade – specifically, a gay pride parade in San Diego. [69]

          October 2011 – The Obama administration eliminates federal grants to the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops for their extensive programs that aid victims of human trafficking because the Catholic Church is anti-abortion. [70]

          September 2011 – The Pentagon directs that military chaplains may perform same-sex marriages at military facilities in violation of the federal Defense of Marriage Act. [71]

          July 2011 – Obama allows homosexuals to serve openly in the military, reversing a policy originally instituted by George Washington in March 1778. [72]

          March 2011 – The Obama administration refuses to investigate videos showing Planned Parenthood helping alleged sex traffickers get abortions for victimized underage girls. [73]

          February 2011 – Obama directs the Justice Department to stop defending the federal Defense of Marriage Act. [74]

          September 2010 – The Obama administration tells researchers to ignore a judge’s decision striking down federal funding for embryonic stem cell research. [75]

          August 2010 – The Obama administration Cuts funding for 176 abstinence education programs. [76]

          July 2010 – The Obama administration uses federal funds in violation of federal law to get Kenya to change its constitution to include abortion. [77]

          September 16, 2009 – The Obama administration appoints as EEOC Commissioner Chai Feldblum, who asserts that society should “not tolerate” any “private beliefs,” including religious beliefs, if they may negatively affect homosexual “equality.” [78]

          July 2009 – The Obama administration illegally extends federal benefits to same-sex partners of Foreign Service and Executive Branch employees, in direction violation of the federal Defense of Marriage Act. [79]

          May 2009 – The White House budget eliminates all funding for abstinence-only education and replaces it with “comprehensive” sexual education, repeatedly proven to increase teen pregnancies and abortions. [80] He continues the deletion in subsequent budgets. [81]

          May 2009 – Obama officials assemble a terrorism dictionary calling pro-life advocates violent and charging that they use racism in their “criminal” activities. [82]

          March 2009 – The Obama administration shut out pro-life groups from attending a White House-sponsored health care summit. [83]

          March 2009 – Obama orders taxpayer funding of embryonic stem cell research. [84]

          March 2009 – Obama gave $50 million for the UNFPA, the UN population agency that promotes abortion and works closely with Chinese population control officials who use forced abortions and involuntary sterilizations. [85]

          January 2009 – Obama lifts restrictions on U.S. government funding for groups that provide abortion services or counseling abroad, forcing taxpayers to fund pro-abortion groups that either promote or perform abortions in other nations. [86]

          January 2009 – President Obama’s nominee for deputy secretary of state asserts that American taxpayers are required to pay for abortions and that limits on abortion funding are unconstitutional. [87]

          4. Acts of preferentialism for Islam:

          February 2012 – The Obama administration makes effulgent apologies for Korans being burned by the U. S. military, [88] but when Bibles were burned by the military, numerous reasons were offered why it was the right thing to do. [89]

          October 2011 – Obama’s Muslim advisers block Middle Eastern Christians’ access to the White House. [90]

          August 2010 – Obama speaks with great praise of Islam and condescendingly of Christianity. [91]

          August 2010 – Obama went to great lengths to speak out on multiple occasions on behalf of building an Islamic mosque at Ground Zero, while at the same time he was silent about a Christian church being denied permission to rebuild at that location. [92]

          April 2010 – Christian leader Franklin Graham is disinvited from the Pentagon’s National Day of Prayer Event because of complaints from the Muslim community. [93]

          April 2010 – The Obama administration requires rewriting of government documents and a change in administration vocabulary to remove terms that are deemed offensive to Muslims, including jihad, jihadists, terrorists, radical Islamic, etc. [94]

          May 2009 – While Obama does not host any National Day of Prayer event at the White House, he does host White House Iftar dinners in honor of Ramadan. [95]

          2010 – While every White House traditionally issues hundreds of official proclamations and statements on numerous occasions, this White House avoids traditional Biblical holidays and events but regularly recognizes major Muslim holidays, as evidenced by its 2010 statements on Ramadan, Eid-ul-Fitr, Hajj, and Eid-ul-Adha. [96]

          • Valri

            Yeah, you posted a link to this earlier. It was a crock then, and it still is. I can cut and paste material from radical hate websites too.

            Obama’s a Christian.

          • Bob Johnson

            So when we get another fundamentalists president in the White House, the same thing will happen. These problems occurred under fundamentalist preacher President Carter, Bush (both)…

            The problem is that the president has little control over, nor can he micro-mange civil suits during his time in office. And he is a very public figure, his staff is not going to go out of their way to insult other groups.

          • Valri

            Really, I knew Carter was Christian but I think he must have relaxed that over time because he’s hardly one now at all. Or at least very liberal (which I mean in the best sense of the word).

          • Bob Johnson

            Yes, he is currently a deacon at Maranatha Baptist Church. In 2000 he severed his membership with Southern Baptist Convention. Also check out his connection with Habitat for Humanity.

          • afchief

            LOL! And I’m the pope!!!

          • Bob Johnson

            I thought you said Catholics weren’t real christians.

          • afchief

            That was sarcasm!

            Why Jesus would not vote for Barack Obama

            In February 2004, U.S. Senate candidate Barack Obama’s wife, Michelle, sent a fund-raising letter with the “alarming news” that “right-wing politicians” had passed a law stopping doctors from stabbing half-born babies in the neck with scissors, suctioning out their brains and crushing their skulls.

            Michelle called partial-birth abortion “a legitimate medical procedure,” and wouldn’t supporters please pay $150 to attend a luncheon for her husband, who would fight against “cynical ploy[s]” to stop it?

            But that’s not why Obama’s opponent Alan Keyes said Jesus Christ wouldn’t vote for him.

            Obama recalled Keyes’ statement in a recent USA Today opinion piece but omitted his reasoning. I know his reasoning, because I was there. As a nurse at an Illinois hospital in 1999, I discovered babies were being aborted alive and shelved to die in soiled utility rooms. I discovered infanticide. Legislation was presented on the federal level and in various states called the Born Alive Infants Protection Act. It stated all live-born babies were guaranteed the same constitutional right to equal protection, whether or not they were wanted. BAIPA sailed through the U.S. Senate by unanimous vote. Even Sens. Clinton, Kennedy and Kerry agreed a mother’s right to “choose” stopped at her baby’s delivery. The bill also passed overwhelmingly in the House. NARAL went neutral on it. Abortion enthusiasts publicly agreed that fighting BAIPA would appear extreme. President Bush signed BAIPA into law in 2002.

            But in Illinois, the state version of BAIPA repeatedly failed, thanks in large part to then-state Sen. Barack Obama. It only passed in 2005, after Obama left. I testified in 2001 and 2002 before a committee of which Obama was a member. Obama articulately worried that legislation protecting live aborted babies might infringe on women’s rights or abortionists’ rights. Obama’s clinical discourse, his lack of mercy, shocked me. I was naive back then. Obama voted against the measure, twice. It ultimately failed. In 2003, as chairman of the next Senate committee to which BAIPA was sent, Obama stopped it from even getting a hearing, shelving it to die much like babies were still being shelved to die in Illinois hospitals and abortion clinics.

            (As chair of that same committee, Obama once abruptly ended a hearing early, right before Scott and Janet Willis, the parents of six children killed as a result of Illinois’ drivers licenses for bribes scandal, were to testify in favor of Choose Life license plate legislation. I was there for that one, too. The Willises had traveled three hours. Reporters filled the room. Obama stalled. He later killed the bill when no one was around.) So, the reason Keyes said Jesus Christ wouldn’t vote for Barack Obama was because of Obama’s fanatical support of abortion to the point of condoning infanticide. I have framed on my wall a Chicago Sun-Times cartoon published during the campaign. Obama is holding a sign with “LIVE BIRTH ABORTION” on it. God is reaching down from heaven to a baby in front of Obama, and the baby is reaching up to God. Obama is yelling at God, “You keep out of this!”

            In his USA Today opinion piece, Obama admitted being “nagged” by the Jesus-wouldn’t-vote-for-him statement, but only because he wished he’d given a different comeback. Obama insinuated opposition to abortion is based only on religion, lecturing pro-lifers like me to “explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faiths, including those with no faith at all.” I don’t recall mentioning religion when I testified against live-birth abortion. I only recall describing a live aborted baby I held in a hospital soiled utility room until he died, and a live aborted baby who was accidentally thrown into the trash. Neither do I recall religion being brought into the partial-birth abortion ban debate. I recall comparisons made to U.S. laws ensuring animals being killed are treated humanely. I recall testimony that late-term babies feel excruciating pain while being aborted. Obama stated pro-life proposals must be “amenable to reason.” OK, Sen. Obama, let’s reason. Explain why you support abortion for whatever rationale, at whatever gestation, by whatever means. Explain why you support infanticide, if banning it might interfere with abortion. Then, since you brought it up, explain how, despite all that, you think Jesus should vote for you, either now or in the hereafter, particularly given His statement, “It would be better to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around the neck than to face the punishment in store for harming one of these little ones.”

          • Bob Johnson

            Don’t worry we won’t be voting for Barrack Obama. His two terms are nearly over. I’m sure whoever wins come November you will declare “pure evil” by summer 2017.

          • afchief

            Just the Hildabeast and Sanders.

            This article shows HOW evil Obamadinajad IS!!!!

        • D.M.S.

          NO person who is for partial birth abortion is a Christian. Actually NO person that’s for abortion is a Christian.
          And this president is in favor of both procedures.
          Which means he is NOT a Christian.

          • Valri

            That is called the No True Scotsman fallacy.
            I can see what a Christian is by looking the word up in the dictionary, thank you very much. One who follows and heeds the teachings of Jesus Christ. It says nothing about abortion.

          • D.M.S.

            Maybe you’ve read it.
            It’s one of the 10 commandments.
            Thou shalt not kill.

          • Valri

            Even if that’s true, where does it say that people who break the 10 commandments cannot be Christians?

          • D.M.S.

            You’re the one who brought up that our president is a Christian and I brought it to your attention that if a person, any person including our president is for abortion, they are not a Christian.
            Now you’re trying to change the subject.

          • Valri

            No, I’m telling you that your statement is wrong. The word “abortion” does not figure at all in the definition of the word Christian. We have murderers who are Christians, rapists who are Christians, why would we not also have Christians who’ve had abortions? Isn’t your whole faith about forgiveness anyway?

          • D.M.S.

            Anyone can call themselves a Christian. But as long as a person who calls themselves a Christian, keeps sinning against God everyday, they are not a Christian. Yes we are to forgive all, for we have been forgiven.
            But we Christians have to be careful of getting to close to the world. I state this piece of scripture all the time, I doubt that you’ll read it,
            1 John 2:15-17.

          • Valri

            That’s right, anyone can call themselves a Christian. The problem is that not everyone defines sin the same way you do. I am a little more reasonable than you are and would concede that there are “strict Christians” and “liberal Christians” but it’s not my place to tell someone that they’re not a Christian just because they happen to think that it’s not a sin to be gay or whatever. And you would. And that’s what makes me glad not to be like you.

          • D.M.S.

            Being in an lgbt relationships, will always be a Sin. Btw, there’s no such person as a liberal Christian, they don’t exist.

          • Valri

            No True Scotsman fallacy again. Because YOU don’t like liberals, you get to decide they are not Christians. Sorry but the decision does not fall to you, and there is nothing in the Christian definition to exclude them.

            What this really is, in fact, is hate.

          • Bob Johnson

            Oh go ahead and google “Liberal Christian”. The movement started in the 1700s and has several million people in it today. How do you think that in a country where 83% of the population identify as Christian a Democrat can get elected?

          • D.M.S.


          • D.M.S.

            You’re welcome to lie to yourself all you want. But some day you will have to stand before our Lord Yeshua just like everyone else. I hope you repent before that happens. Take Care.

          • Valri

            Did all the other Christians get the memo that you are the one calling the shots from now on, and all adherents must be doing things your way?

          • D.M.S.

            All the Sins of this world are quoted many times in the Christian Bible. It’s your choice to live by them or not.

          • Valri

            And I’m sure you can think up a million other ones NOT mentioned in the Bible. I don’t need the Bible to tell me murdering other people is wrong, that’s common sense. But your book justifies slavery and genocide so it’s a little bit hard to get behind sometimes.

          • D.M.S.

            I believe the Christian Bible 100% and I have no problem getting behind it.

          • D.M.S.

            Can you even fathom what a true Christian is? It isn’t what our media or liberal society says it is. Do you know what the unforgivable Sin is?

          • Valri

            I know what a Christian is. I was one for many years and I also possess a dictionary which is very handy for looking up the definitions of things.

            I also know what a True Christian™ is. It’s an excellent example of the No True Scotsman fallacy which allows you to decide who is and who isn’t a Christian based on whether you like or agree with their behavior.

            Some of you people don’t even consider CATHOLICS to be Christians, that’s the level of the ridiculousness I’m seeing here. I mean, come on.

          • D.M.S.

            Well then enlighten me!
            What is a Christian?
            Of course you have the scripture to back up your beliefs, correct?

          • Valri

            You don’t need a Bible to define what a Christian is, a dictionary will do just fine. Any definition you like will suffice.

          • D.M.S.

            Play your games with someone else. I have brought to your attention many times in these conversations, what our Lord Yahweh considers to be Sins. It’s your choice to ignore or follow our Lord
            Yeshua. Goodbye!

          • Valri

            Do what you like. Just don’t pretend it’s not hate.

          • D.M.S.

            I see that you do what you like, also.

          • Valri

            Yes, based on what I believe is morally right in turn based on what common sense has taught me, and with no fear whatsoever of eternal hellfire.

          • D.M.S.

            I Fear Yahweh. And I know that He loves me.

          • Bob Johnson

            This is pretty much the definition of an abusive relationship. Family counceling may help.

          • D.M.S.

            Really, I had fear towards my Dad and I new he loved me.
            When I became an adult, the fear was replaced by respect and he still loved me.

          • Bob Johnson

            Sorry to hear you grew up in fear. Domestic abuse is often generational. No one should have to grow up in fear, for the sake of your children get professional advice.

          • D.M.S.

            My Dad disciplined me everytime I was bad, and I still love him to this day. My Mom also disciplined me too, and I still love her. Maybe you’re the one that needs to seek professional help. I’m doing fine.

          • D.M.S.

            You will have to face our Lord God for your Sins. Just as much as I will have to do the same.

          • Valri

            I don’t believe such nonsense. If there is a God he is not going to be an unreasonable hateful jerk.

          • D.M.S.

            Thank you, for finally showing your true colors. Goodbye.

          • Valri

            GOODBYE, already!

    • D.M.S.

      God states that it’s a Sin. Christians are not to accept anyone’s Sins. Including adulterers, fornicators, sexual immorality, murderers, etc.
      Romans. 1:22-32.

      • gizmo23

        How about greedy, gluttonous people, angry people? How about atheists, isn’t that a sin? I haven’t heard of a baker turning away a divorced people

        • D.M.S.

          How many divorced people that you know of, announce that they are divorced? 20+ years ago I was an atheist. If people
          ( Christians ) hadn’t been praying for me I wouldn’t have become Christian. I’m a sinner. But I’m also a Christian. But I do everything I can not to Sin, we are not to Sin, as much as we can.

          • gizmo23

            I no plenty of people that have had divorce parties

          • D.M.S.

            Then go ask everyone of them, if they went to a Christian business to set up their divorce party. I would guess That 1 in 20 are Christian. I doubt that it’s that high of a number.

          • gizmo23

            I don’t think most people care when they pick a business

          • D.M.S.

            You just want to play games. Goodbye.

          • gizmo23

            Yeah this conversative doesn’t make sense

      • Valri

        Who gets to define “sexual immorality”?

        It isn’t one of the Ten Commandments either so it can’t have been THAT high on God’s list of priorities.

        • D.M.S.

          The Bible. ALL sexual relations outside of the covenant of one woman married to one man only, is sexual immorality.

          • Valri

            Really, even if they are celibate?
            Why wasn’t it in the Ten Commandments, do you think? Coveting is. Why are more Christians not concerned with the coveting that goes on in this world, and focusing instead on something more minor?

          • Bob Johnson

            So Abraham wasn’t moral.

          • D.M.S.

            I don’t know how much reading of Christian scripture that you have read but everyone in the Christian Bible is a sinner except our Lord Jesus Christ.

          • Bob Johnson

            I thought cursing was a sin and Jesus cursed the fig tree. He was also involved in a conspiracy to steal a colt. I do read scripture.

          • D.M.S.

            You’re more than welcome to take that up with Him on judgement day.

          • D.M.S.

            They probably deserved it!

          • D.M.S.

            What is the fig tree?

          • Bob Johnson

            The story of Jesus cursing the fig tree is told in both Mark and Matthew. While “cursing the fig tree” is the normal way this story is described, I’m certain you will be able to redefine cursing, and use Christian Apologetics to explain why the two stories differ in details.

          • D.M.S.

            Let me know when you figure out what the fig tree is?

          • Bob Johnson

            Since most people here take the Bible literally rather than FIGuratively, the answer would be Ficus carica.

          • D.M.S.

            I’ll never be most people…

    • D.M.S.

      It will when Christians are forced to accept their Sin.

  • WorldGoneCrazy

    A list, with citations, of Obama’s attacks on religious freedoms and / or general hostility toward Christianity:

    http://www .adfmedia .org/files/ObamaReligiousFreedomAttacks .pdf

    • Nidalap

      Now, now! You know attacks on Christianity don’t count as persecution in today’s society! They must deserve it. You follow after Truth, you take the logical reaction from the World…

      • WorldGoneCrazy

        Yes, I recite Matthew 5:10-12 every day on the sidewalk to the Obama Abortion worshippers. They are happy to “bless” me. 🙂

        • Chrissy Vee

          Dig, 🙂

        • Valri

          “Obama Abortion worshippers”.

          That’s quoteworthy.

        • D.M.S.


      • gizmo23

        Christians following the law is not persecution

        • D.M.S.

          If our U.S. laws go against Gods laws, they are.

          • gizmo23

            So no other faiths allowed, no more Sunday football.

          • D.M.S.

            It’s rather obvious that you don’t read the Christian Bible.

          • gizmo23

            Why do you say that?

          • D.M.S.

            By your answers!

          • Valri

            What other Bible is there?

          • Bob Johnson

            Aside from the Protestant version and Catholic version, the Eastern Orthodox have a few different changes to the Bible.

            Another way to answer the question is which translation since most of us do not read Greek. Personally, I am trying to save up to buy the Anchor Bible – so far I have been reading it at the library.

          • Valri

            If I’m correct, D.M.S. is going to say the Catholic bible, the original one with 7 extra books, is false.

          • D.M.S.

            There’s one called the queen jane bible. There’s nothing Christian about it.

          • Valri

            I looked it up online. As I suspected it is a parody/mockery of the Bible and not serious.

          • D.M.S.

            But there are those who follow its teachings.

          • D.M.S.

            Because observing the Sabbath is in the New Testament.

          • gizmo23

            So the ten commandants don’t count?

          • D.M.S.

            The other 9 are in the New Testament. But you should know that as often as you read Christian scripture.

  • Josey

    In Obama’s mind religious freedom is for everyone but a Christian.

    • Valri

      Obama is a practicing Christian. Look up “Barack Obama religion conspiracy theories” on Wikipedia.

  • acontraryview

    ““Sadly, Christians are increasingly being punished for standing on God’s word and living according to our beliefs based on the Bible.”

    No, they are being punished for violating the law.

    ““Christians are being forced to affirm gay ‘marriages”

    No, they are not. People are free to affirm or not affirm whatever they care to. No one is being forced to affirm gay marriage.

    “one that increasingly excludes Bible-believing Christians from these protections”

    Christians have the same protections as everyone else.

    “And that is true freedom that can never be taken away by any government or legislature!”

    Then what is he worried about?

    • Josey

      As long as they give up their jobs and businesses, right? Christianity is lived 24/7, not just in private as sodomites would prefer, but it doesn’t work that way. I live as a Christian but I am not forcing others to submit to my belief even though I will boldly speak out what the word of God says about sin but the choice is still there for one to receive it or not, that is not what is going on with the “gay agenda” as you put it but none the less it’s still called sodomy in God’s word. I am not holding a knife to your throat demanding you accept my belief in Christ but sodomites want every Christian out of public jobs and businesses they began with the grace of God. You have the choice not to come to my business just as I choose where I go but sodomites choose to sue everyone who doesn’t agree with them or serve them, they boo hoo intolerance but I am not boo hooing intolerance if you do not accept my faith and I am not suing you for your intolerance either for I know that God will judge on that day and I am so at peace with allowing Him His vengeance and judgment for sin that is not repented of through Christ. My job is to live my faith as pleasing to God and I’ll leave the weightier matters to Him but I will continue to put Him first daily and trust in Him. One day the persecutions you throw at the children of God for obeying Him will come upon you in horrific ways if you do not repent, His grace is extended to you for at least today for you might not have a tomorrow like you think. John 15:20 Jesus said to those who follow and obey Him these words, vs20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
      So, I am not worried or afraid, Praise the Name of Jesus whose Name is above every Name given under Heaven and Earth and to which every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess that He is LORD!

      • acontraryview

        “As long as they give up their jobs and businesses, right? ”

        Nope. They are not required to give up either their jobs or their businesses.

        “not just in private as sodomites would prefer”

        What makes you believe that sodomites (which, by the way, refers to a substantial number of heterosexuals) would prefer that religious belief is only expressed in private? I certainly don’t prefer that.

        “that is not what is going on with the “gay agenda” as you put it”

        I don’t use the term “gay agenda”.

        “but none the less it’s still called sodomy in God’s word.”

        It is referred to as sodomy in the book you have chosen to believe contains God’s word. As is any sexual act other than penile/vaginal intercourse.

        “sodomites want every Christian out of public jobs and businesses”

        That is complete hyperbole, not to mention impossible given the percent of people in the US who identify as Christian. Do you want government officials picking and choosing, based upon their religious beliefs, who they will perform the duties they took an oath to perform? Do you want a Hindu clerk to refuse to issue a business license to a Christian who wants to open a steak restaurant? Do you want a Jewish clerk to refuse to issue a business license to a Christian who wants to open a deli that serves pork? Do you want a Christian clerk who believes that the races should not mix to refuse to issue a marriage license to an interracial couple?

        Do you believe that business should not be required to operate according to the law?

        “but sodomites choose to sue everyone who doesn’t agree with them or serve them,”

        Again, hyperbole. You can’t sue someone for disagreeing with you. You can, however, sue someone for failing to operate within the law. Do you feel businesses should NOT be required to operate according to the law?

        “and I am not suing you for your intolerance”

        Intolerance is not illegal, so you would have no basis for a lawsuit.

        “One day the persecutions you throw at the children of God for obeying Him”

        I am not persecuting anyone.

        “Praise the Name of Jesus whose Name is above every Name given under Heaven and Earth and to which every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess that He is LORD!”

        You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

        • Josey

          The proof is in the pudding, it’s not Christians suing sodomites for not baking cakes with scriptures on it, or Christians suing for refusal of services, it is Christians having to defend their constitutional right to not be a partaker of their sins and not offending their conscience before God. It is Christians’s that are being forced out of jobs and losing businesses because of their religious right to esteem God higher than a supreme justice opinion. I as a Christian would support Christian businesses in the first place in which I have every right to do so. But all of these things were prophesied by Christ 2 thousand years ago so it’s no surprise to me the persecution coming against children of God for we are not of this world and no friend to it, that is why the world hates us but Soon we will be going home to the our Heavenly home, glory to God. [woe unto those who call evil good and good evil, that woe is upon your head and unless God graciously opens your eyes and you repent you will stand before His throne one day and my words will come back to your remembrance. Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

          • acontraryview

            “it’s not Christians suing sodomites for not baking cakes with scriptures on it”

            There would be no basis for such a lawsuit as a bakery is not required to put specific messages on a cake.

            “or Christians suing for refusal of services”

            Are you aware of any such cases?

            “it is Christians having to defend their constitutional right to not be a partaker of their sins”

            No one’s right to not partake is being infringed. If a baker doesn’t want to make wedding cakes for same-gender marriages, then the baker is free to not offer wedding cakes as one of the products the bakery sells.

            “and not offending their conscience before God.”

            Please cite where the Constitution provides the protection of not being offended.

            “It is Christians’s that are being forced out of jobs and losing businesses because of their religious right to esteem God higher than a supreme justice opinion.”

            The Constitution does not provide the right to utilize religious beliefs as a basis for breaking the law.

            “so it’s no surprise to me the persecution coming against children of God”

            Oh, please, spare me the hyperbole. What “persecution” “against the children of God”? The laws apply to all people of all religions, not just Christians.

  • acontraryview

    It’s always fascinating to hear people go on and on about how our Constitution protects religious belief, but then in the same breath suggest that their religious beliefs should be a basis for restricting the rights of others under that same Constitution.

    • Mark Barker

      And liberals use a distorted view of the Constitution to support their right to do whatever they want no matter how offensive it may be to the community at large. It’s OK, we will all be judged one day.

      • acontraryview

        “And liberals use a distorted view of the Constitution”

        For example?

        “It’s OK, we will all be judged one day.”

        I’m glad you are OK with it.

    • D.M.S.

      I’m looking forward to the day that the ‘ constipation ‘ is gone 🙂

      • acontraryview

        For some, I doubt it ever will be.

        • D.M.S.

          The world doesn’t think so.
          1 John 2:15-17.

      • TheKingOfRhye

        Aren’t you supposed to take Immodium or something for that?

        • D.M.S.

          :-). Just for future reference the constitution and constipation are the same thing .
          Have a nice day.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            You’re looking forward to the day the Constitution is gone? Really?

          • D.M.S.

            YES I AM.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            And you foresee that happening sometime in the near future? And what would you have it replaced by?

          • Valri

            I can answer that. A Christian theocracy is what he wants. Some people here are more straightforward about saying it than others.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            That was my guess as well.

          • Bob Johnson

            So, instead of having a constitution which has lasted us well over 200 years with only 27 amendments, we will get a church which has had more schisms than anyone can count. The tricky part will be where do we start? Catholic, Mennonite, …

            Oops, I should change “schisms” to “reformations”

          • D.M.S.

            Well considering that you’re an agnostic atheist
            ( your words ) and this is the Christian News Network and I’m a Christian. I figure you’re smart enough to figure that out on your own.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Huh? What is that supposed to mean? OK, you want the constitution gone, replaced by, I’m guessing, a Christian theocracy. That is in no way an opinion representative of most Christians in this country, certainly not of any I know personally, or even most of those that I talk to around here. So how I would be able to draw that conclusion just from the fact that you are a Christian posting on the Christian News Network? And what would my beliefs have to do with that, for that matter?

          • D.M.S.

            Well I was wrong. No I don’t want what you or your friends call a Christian theocracy. I want what all true Christians want, Jesus Christ to rule the world, should suffice. And very soon, too.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Ah, okay, I wasn’t thinking of that. Fair enough, I suppose. I guess the next question is, do you think that’s happening soon?

          • D.M.S.

            At the rate of the murders, strife and debauchery that’s happening in the world. I give it no more than 50 years, I doubt that it will be that long.

        • Valri

          I don’t know when you arrived here but please don’t ever leave!

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Aw, thanks 😉

  • The Guest

    Says the pot to the kettle. Hypocrite

    “Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. ***Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight. Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and champions at mixing drinks, who acquit the guilty for a bribe, but deny justice to the innocent.***” Isaiah 5:20-23

    “He also shall be my salvation: for an hypocrite shall not come before Him.” Job 13:16

    “For the congregation of hypocrites shall be desolate, and fire shall consume the tabernacles of bribery.” Job 15:34

  • Chrissy Vee

    I see the antichrists here are still oblivious to the present and future oppression and persecution of Christianity in America and around the world. Is it really ignorant bliss? Or do they just have nothing better to do but follow us around and mock and debate us? Either way, they are only showing their lack of vision and knowledge, unaware they are actually contributing to this injustice they so vehemently deny is happening.

    • WorldGoneCrazy

      Anti-Christians lack self-awareness, Chrissy. That’s just how they roll. I was one once, and the quickest way to cure a blind man is through Jesus.

      • Josey

        Amen and praise God world! God bless you brother, God uses you in such a way that has taught me about atheism and how they think, I still don’t know a lot about that subject but have learned a lot from you and one day soon I believe I’ll get to meet you, what a wonderful day of rejoicing that will be when we all get to meet and share the testimonies of how God brought us to Christ. Glory to God!!!

        • WorldGoneCrazy

          Right back atya, Josey – I totally LOVE your posts – keep up the great work, you are awesome!

        • Chrissy Vee


        • D.M.S.

          I hope you keep up your good work in Christ, too. He sends us out as lambs amongst the wolves.

          • Josey

            I would appreciate your prayers.

          • D.M.S.

            No problem.

          • Josey

            thank you!

          • Chrissy Vee

            You got it! 🙂

      • Valri

        That’s a very interesting thing to say, “Anti-Christians lack self awareness.” Do you have anything to back it up, or are you just talking out your rear end again?

    • D.M.S.

      Try going over to the ” Friendly Atheist ” there’s nothing Friendly about them. I made one Christian remark and I was answering questions from 25+ people in 5 days. And that’s just one atheist news cite or blog.

      • Chrissy Vee


      • I can attest to this. I sent a response to D.M.S. one day at the “friendly” atheist and shortly got replies from two unique posters in that community.

        …oddly enough, neither were friendly.

        No sir, I did not have a friendly experience over at the “friendly” atheist.

        • Josey

          Not a bit surprised for those who claim there is no God are fools as the Bible says and since they claim they believe in no God, they assume there is no accountability for them and think they can say anything they want and live as they will but won’t they be shocked on the day they bow before Him and scream as they are taken away to the pit unless they accept God grace and forgiveness given through Christ alone and accept His love that He shows them today and accept the mercy He alone can give and receive His salvation that He alone offers their souls before it’s too late for them. Nothing is impossible with God, He saves murderers, atheists, sodomites, etc. Blessed are they who hunger for righteousness for they shall be filled. I hope He shows them the error of their ways just as He saved Saul who God renamed Paul, just as He saved me and many others. Today is the day of salvation if you will hear His voice. Tomorrow isn’t promised to anyone and today you could take your last breath and be before him in the next instance, the choice is before you, I pray you consider eternity and make the right choice!

          • Amen.

            Once one passes from this side of the grave to the other side of the grave, all bets are off.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Occasionally-friendly-atheist here….lol

            “Not a bit surprised for those who claim there is no God are fools as the Bible says and since they claim they believe in no God”…..

            It’s not my intention to try to disprove the existence of any god here, but I’d just like to point out that ‘claiming there is no God’ and ‘believing in no God’ are different things. One can (as I do) not believe in a god, but also not claim to know for sure there is not one.

          • Josey

            Atheists have a position that either affirms the nonexistence of gods or rejects theism. When defined more broadly, atheism is the absence of belief in deities, alternatively called nontheism. Although atheists are commonly assumed to be irreligious, some religions, such as Buddhism, have been characterized as atheistic because of their lack of belief in a personal god.

            And a agnostic claim either that it is not possible to have absolute or certain knowledge of God or gods; or, alternatively, that while individual certainty may be possible, they personally have no knowledge of a supreme being.

            With that definition of both I’d say you are an agnostic not atheist.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Yeah, you just about summed it up right there, except I’d say I’m an ‘agnostic atheist’ really.

    • Valri

      Mocking and debating you? What if we simply disagree with you?

    • D.M.S.

      Maybe we should start by not replying. Let them babble their foolishness and not answer. But remember once we start Satans minions will try to provoke us into replying and they will get very nasty when they do.

      • Chrissy Vee

        Right there with ya.

  • Elie Challita

    I find it highly amusing that Christians in the US consider themselves oppressed because they can’t force their beliefs onto everybody else.
    I grew up in a Christian minority in Lebanon. We were targeted for extermination during the civil war. Other Christian groups around the world have faced actual threat of death or forced conversion.
    But God forbid that good, US Christians be forced to play by the same rules that everyone else abides by in their country.

  • Bertha Warren

    Mind is terrible thing to waste.