Four-Year-Old Booted From Preschool After Mother Objects to Lessons on Homosexuality, Gender

Worm-compressedAURORA, Co. — A four-year-old girl in Colorado has been booted from preschool after her mother expressed concern over diversity teaching in the classroom that included books on homosexuality and gender identity.

R.B. Sinclair told the Denver Post this week that her daughter’s preschool teacher at Montview Community Preschool and Kindergarten had been reading books to the children on same-sex “couples” and about worms questioning their gender.

She said that her daughter came home one day and expressed concern that her father would no longer like girls.

Sinclair approached officials and requested that her daughter be able to opt out of the teaching, but was told that it was part of the diversity curriculum and that opting out wasn’t an option as the lessons were interspersed throughout the day.

Sinclair says her daughter is already exposed to diversity as the family is bi-racial and has been raised in both Muslim and western culture.

“I think at this age they don’t know what bias is. They could have kids from Mars and they would still play with each other,” Sinclair said. “It’s not that she isn’t exposed to diversity, because it is the world we live in. But how are they having these conversations?”

According to reports, the preschool sent a letter home to parents defending the books and also published a newsletter article that suggests ways parents can teach their children about diversity, including in regard to homosexuality.

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“Dad, why do those kids have two moms?” the article reads in providing sample book text, to which the father replies, “Some families have a mom and a dad like you have, and some have two dads or two moms. Some kids have one parent, a mom or a dad. Families come together in many different ways for many different reasons that I don’t even know.”

But Sinclair said that two days after meeting with the principal to express her concerns, she was presented with a letter that said that her child is not a “good fit” for the school and that the letter represented her final day as a student.

“Biases start as kids get older and start to see differences as negative. At a young age, kids are exploring all different kinds of things,” Kim Bloemen, director of early childhood education for the Boulder Valley School District, told the Denver Post. “It’s about just providing them with all these experiences.”

All preschool teachers in the district have been trained to teach children about diversity.

As previously reported, last year, a lesbian public school teacher in Canada outlined at an educator’s conference how she convinces young children to accept homosexuality.

“I started in Kindergarten. What a great place to start,” Pam Strong stated at the Accepting Schools Act Conference in Toronto.

Strong said began by reading the book “King and King” to the Kindergarten class, a publication about a prince who passes up all the princesses his mother presents as potential mates and instead “marries” the brother of a princess.

She told the story of one incident when she got to the part of the book where the two men have a “wedding” ceremony, a student began to object.

“They can’t do that!” the Kindergartner proclaimed. “They can’t get married. They’re two boys.”

Strong then replied, “Oh, yeah. Yeah, they can. It’s right here on page 12.”

When the student remarked that the book was just a story, she then began to tell the class that she herself is a homosexual.

“And I said, ‘It happens in real life too. I am married to a woman. I am gay. And I am in love with my wife,” Strong told the Kindergarteners.

“And off I go to the next classroom,” she explained.

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  • Grace Kim Kwon

    The Western culture must stop pushing immorality upon the children. It’s been insane. Children need Christian education for morality and normality.

    • Guest

      And in ‘western culture’ everyone has a right to be a sinner in your eyes, praise God. That whole ‘freedom of religion’ thing.

      This mother wanted a private school to change their entire curriculum to suit her needs. As a customer she has a civil right to buy the curriculum the business does sell but no right to make them sell something they don’t, i.e. an alternate curriculum.

      Why not enroll their child in a school more in keeping with their needs? Or home school?

      • No. You do not have the right to be a sinner. The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. God’s commands are law: you must repent. This is not a matter of your discretion. If God has graciously overlooked your sin so far, this does not mean that it is your right to refuse to repent and to continue in sin.

        • Guest

          Actually people have had the right to be actual sinners since the garden of eden, that’s what free will is, the right to choose.

          Again, fortunately everyone has as right to not share your beliefs or your version of Christianity in ‘western culture’. God’s commandments are clear – love and forgive, all we must do flows from that. Yes, there are many calling themselves Christian who ignore those commandments but again, everyone has a right to be a ‘sinner’ in their eyes.

          • Ginger

            We will all find out at the seventh trump, the Lord’s Day is the second advent when ALL flesh are changed to spirit bodies: the good, the bad, the indifferent, even the animals (Isaiah 11 is an analogy of the safety of the earth when He arrives). There will be a great separation when Christ foot steps down on the mount of Olives. No one needs to tell us it has happened that is why He tells us again and again “let no man deceive you by any means”.

          • Guest

            And that’s why we don’t pay much attention to people who say false things about God and Scripture. I’m ready for judgment, are you?

          • Ginger

            I am, we all go to judgment many will be wailing and gnashing their teeth in lamentation, some will be lining up for rewards. 2 Corinthians 5:6-8 “Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord” KJV or Companion Bible. I can ask do you know the responsibility before us that will be our task?

          • Guest

            Our task is to love God, others and ourselves and to treat others as we would ourselves be treated, including forgiving them their trespasses against us, and to repent all failings in accomplishing this mission for from these things all our obligations flow.

          • Ginger

            That is part, but we need our whole suit of armor to face the spiritual battle not only the day-to-day. I’ve studied the Bible for years using the tools our Father has provided to understand and read Genesis to Revelation using the Strong’s Concordance, Smith’s Bible Dictionary, J.P.Green’s Interlinear and “Idiom in the Bible Explained by George Lamsa. “Anti” has changed meaning over the centuries it is Greek #473 meaning “instead of” he will be the one standing in the holy place claiming to be God that any not prepared will be taken in by his flood of lies,

            Ephesians 6:10 KJV “Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of His might.” To “be strong in the Lord” means to be sure in your mind of the Lord. Our strength in the Lord comes from the things we can do in the authority of Jesus Christ’s name. God’s might is where all our power comes from. God cares, and gives those who call on His name the strength needed to see us through any difficulty. Ephesians
            6:11 KJV “Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to
            stand against the wiles of the devil.” Now is the time that we had better be preparing ourselves to know what is going to transpire, and what we must have to use against Satan, and all his forces. We must know him and all his names; the Antichrist, the serpent, the king of Tyre (Tyre means rock he is not our Rock), the devil, and all of his other names, which alerts us to the actions that he will use against us. The “wiles of the devil” refers to the lies, tricks, and deceitfulness he and his offspring may use to bring down Christians. The “whole armour” is all the protection necessary to stand against those lies and deception. Your entire body has to be protected against Satan, or he will out-wit you, and you will not stand. Ephesians 6:12 KJV “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” This battle we are going to fight is not against people you see and hear, but it is against hidden and deceitful spiritual powers. Satan is the prince of darkness,
            and spiritually he controls the minds and actions of not only rulers of this earth, but all evil spirits in the heavenlies. These are the angelic beings in a fallen state. Are you prepared mentally to do battle with them? This battle is not with guns and swords, but with words and doctrines; with concepts and ideas, and these are the fiery darts that Satan will conduct his warfare against you with. Ephesians 6:13 KJV
            “Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.” We will stand against Satan, and all his forces, and that evil day is just before the Lord’s return. On that day we had better be prepared to stand and face Satan, with our full armor on. Ephesians 6:14 KJV “Stand therefore, having you loins girt about with truth, and having on the
            breastplate of righteousness;” Your “girt” is your belt, the thing that holds up your pants. Our spiritual belt is the truth of God’s word; all of it. Like the belt, it also holds you together and keeps you from flying off in any direction. If you know what to expect you will not stray off into Satan’s camp in ignorance. Our “breastplate of righteousness” is our justification, or authority for everything we say or do. That is also the Word of God. That truth will only protect you, when you allow the wisdom of God to direct your thinking. Without that truth in your mind, you are spiritually naked, and defenseless in any spiritual battle. Ephesians 6:15 KJV “And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;” This is the kind of shoes that we all must have on. The only true peace is that which comes from Jesus Christ. The “gospel of peace” is the “good news of God’s full plan”, which includes all the Word of God. You feet are used to get you where you are going, while your shoes protect your feet in the journey. So we had better have our gospel shoes on while we move in these final days. This gives us protection in our knowing exactly were to walk, and what to expect. There are no secrets for these days, as to how Satan’s forces will
            move; for it is all written in God’s Word.
            Ephesians 6:16 KJV “Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.” Paul is telling us that this is the most important armor, “above all”. When we put on our “shield of faith” we can quench [or snuff out] all of Satan’s fiery darts. There is absolutely nothing Satan can send against you mentally, if you are filled with the seal of the living God. Our “shield” is our faith, or the certain knowledge that we know that when Satan comes against us, we will automatically be given the moves we are to take to shield ourselves from him. Whatever comes our way will be snuffed out in God’s protection.
            Ephesians 6:17 KJV “And take the helmet of salvation, and
            the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:” The “sword of the spirit” is the Word of God. Revelation 1:16 KJV tells us that His sword is a two edged sword that destroys all of Satan’s lies and deceptions. It is the Word of God, from the mouth of God, and written for is in the Bible. Ephesians 6:18 KJV “Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints,” Ephesians 6:19 KJV “And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly,
            to make known the mystery of the gospel.”
            You can tell from events around us we are in the final generation. May God bless your endeavors as you continue to study our Father’s Word.

          • Guest

            And the devil is seen in those that don’t love, don’t forgive, and don’t repent their missed opportunities for doing so. Sin is violation of these commandments. Many people calling themselves Christian today are absent the Spirit and don’t serve the master they claim to.

            One reason why those who spend so much time falsely judging in the name of God have no power over me, my armor serves me well.

          • disqus_O2BUmbLecp

            1JOHN.3: = 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning.
            For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy
            the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

            The Imperative of Love

            10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest:
            Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.
            ……. n not “nor is he who does not love every Tom, Dik n Harry, esp his enemies.”
            IOW, Christians r to love their brothers n sisters in Christ = love their neighbors as themselves. Only the foolish sons of the devil(= eg false Christians) love every Tom, Dik n Harry, n their enemies.

          • Guest

            Exactly, all those who willfully do not love and forgive are not of God, I’ve said that from the beginning. Again, that’s why those who spew hate have no power over those with the Spirit.

          • disqus_O2BUmbLecp

            Problem is, u love every Tom, Dik n Harry, eg unrepentant homosexuals n other LGBTQs, who r sons of the devil n who came to kill, steal or destroy.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            I think the problem is your grammar.

          • disqus_O2BUmbLecp

            EPH.6:17 = …and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;….

          • Guest

            Yes, the Word of God cuts through all deceits, that’s why those without it have no power in this world over the faithful.

          • disqus_O2BUmbLecp

            U r not following the WORD of God when u love every Tom, Dik n Harry, every unrepentant homosexual n other LGBTQ, murderer, adulterer, rapist, thief, perjurer/liar/cheater/ /fraudster, Muslim terrorist, etc bc these r sons of the devil who came to kill, steal n destroy, ie they obey their father the devil = commit sins/evil-deeds/law-breaking.(eg JOHN.8:44)

        • gizmo23

          So we should have laws against divorce, saving accounts, charging interest, women speaking in church, etc.

          • Ginger

            One needs to go to the original languages our Bible was translated from 1 Corinthians 14:35 KJV it is “chatter” men nor women should not chatter when true teaching of God’s Word is going on. There are many times in the Bible where women were doing the teaching in the churches. One notable woman was Priscilla in the NT. So open your eyes to the real truth. Our Father will not force any one to love Him. He returns with a rod of iron. What does that mean? Disciple.

        • SFBruce

          You don’t have the right to tell the rest of the world what’s sin and what isn’t. The rest of us also have consciences and the right to come to our own understanding regarding the existence and nature of God, as well as those actions that bring us closer to fulfilling our purpose in life as we struggle to understand that purpose.

          • I have no right to tell you about sin? You believe in free will, but not in free speech! You should not try to fulfill your purpose if it is to demonstrate how a willful heart paves the way to destruction. Seek a better purpose in life.

          • SFBruce

            I have freedom of speech as well, and when you use that freedom to self righteously pontificate about the most personal matters as though you have a monopoly on the truth, I will challenge that. If you’re so convinced that homosexuality is wrong, don’t engage in it, and even if you feel compelled to warn others about what you perceive to be it’s destructiveness, you might want to reconsider the way you frame your argument. So far, you’re preaching to a choir which is shrinking in numbers.

        • Paige Turner

          Thats all great.

          However not everyone believes in God, or indeed your God and we don’t live in a theocracy.

        • Jolanda Tiellemans

          Haven’t heard anything from your God. Me think you hear voices in your head. And they call the homosexuals mentally ill, go figure.

      • Mike Sharp

        Why not go to a baker that shares their belief, I am really tired of these double standards

        • Guest

          Hmmm, the bakery does offer wedding cakes just as this school does its curriculum. If the customer does want to buy what the bakery/school offers, they can’t be refused because of a civil rights category.

          Regarding the bakery the customer does want what’s offered but is refusing the customer, in this preschool’s case the customer doesn’t want what the business offers. No double standard at all.

          • Mike Sharp

            No the bakery did not offer gay wedding cakes, the school refused service because the parent expressed concern, the parent did not force the school to change it. Nor did the parent seek out the school so that they could sue them.

          • Guest

            There is no such thing as a gay wedding cakes, just wedding cakes – if some moron tried to tell me they didn’t sell gay wedding cakes I’d just reply and say “Great, I’ll take a straight wedding cake then”.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans


          • acontraryview

            How does a gay wedding cake, in and of itself, differ from a straight wedding cake?

          • Sharon_at_home

            They have the names of the 2 being ‘married’ on them, I expect. That’s the only way I can see it being obvious.

          • acontraryview

            Well since none of the cases got so far as to specify what names, if any, would be on the cake, that would not be the case.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            It’s for a marriage of two dudes…OOPS! I guess then it doesn’t, other than who it’s for. Which is illegal.

          • acontraryview


          • GyMack

            The icing is adulterated on gay wedding cakes. eeeewww

          • acontraryview


        • gui1hermegano

          Because the sleazy scumbags TARGET the business.

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        Public schools are for everyone. It is wrong for the government to only allow atheism and sexual depravity in public schools against the will of the people. Government should pay for all schools.

        • John N

          ‘The West has no morality apart from Christiannity’

          You keep on saying that without ever giving the slightest evidence of it being true. And it might come as a surprise to you, but here in the West we stopped keeping slaves, killing inobedient children, suppressing women and performing genocides and infanticides, like the bible describes, some time ago.

        • Guest

          ‘The West’ your stereotyping is a sin unto itself so please get off your unrighteous judgement. That you have no understanding of American law and principles has been obvious for some time. You don’t want to live ‘in the West’ don’t – and I won’t in a place where people eat pets, ok?

      • Susan

        and why not just let the mother opt her child out of that one curriculum? This is one class…not all the classes. She just wanted to opt her child out of that class.

        • Guest

          it’s not a seperate class as the article states. Be like saying “leave my child out of all racial equality curriculum”, ya can’t do it because that’s part of routine education, not a curriculum.

    • Paige Turner

      We don’t live in a theocracy hence why the bible isn’t the law.

      • dave_aka_lambsev

        Law and authority proceed from God. All men and women intuitively know this even though so very many repress the knowledge (of God) denying outwardly that He exists. What has man done law and authority? He and she have presumed their own sovereignty, established their own authority and rewritten law to accomplish their God denying purposes. This cannot be blamed on God. But how of human presumption is blamed on God! That the world’s history is from near the beginning rife with lawlessness, with evil, with transgression is something that proceeds from human beings. The question “Why is there evil in the world?” is only answered “Because men and women do evil.”

        • Paige Turner

          That doesn’t deal with the fact that we don’t live in a theocracy.
          We have separation of church and state as well as freedom of and freedom from religion.

          Not everyone shares your world view.

        • Paige Turner

          Uuuhm No.

          This is why there is a constitution and separation of church and state. Not everyone shares your view about God and religion and not everyone is a Christian in fact, you are not the majority in the world.

          By all means have your opinion and views however you do not get to impose them on others. Thats the law.

          We do not live in a theocracy nor will we.

    • John N

      The bible is a book. Written 2000 years ago. By people having only a basic understanding of how the world is functioning. It contains lots of factual errors like the earth being flat and in the center of the solar system.

      Any college kid is smarter than that.

      • Jason Tirre

        John you know little about the bible. You err because you don’t know it is the very Word of God inspired by God and revealed to man. And God sent His own Son to reveal the truth and authenticity to the Divine Scriptures. The scriptures speak of the earth being round in the book of Isaiah and in the book of job it states Elohim hangs the earth on nothing. Please stop misquoting the bible and deceiving people because what you said John is not true. Elohim Word stands firm in the heavens and will for eternity.

        • John N

          Please see the bible chapters I quoted here below.

          And indeed I don’t know don’t know the bible is the very Word of God inspired by God and revealed to man – and neither do you.

          To know that, you first would have to show your god exists. And right after, you would have to explain why an all-knowing god inspired a book filled with errors and contradictions, containing the level of knowledge to be expected from a first century human being.

          • dave_aka_lambsev

            John, How is it that we are even able to live? Everything we know we learn, but from whom, from whom have you learned the things you assert as true? All things proceed from God being made by Him. All men and women intuitively know this even though so very many repress the knowing (of God) and are denying outwardly that He exists. What has mankind done the things he and she are able to touch? Having presumed their own sovereignty, established their own authority and rewritten law to accomplish their God denying purposes they have made a mess of things. This cannot be blamed on God. But how often the disastrous results of human presumption are blamed on God! The world’s history is from near the beginning until now rife with lawlessness, with evil, with transgression. This mess is something that proceeds from human beings. The question “Why is there evil?” is answered much in part: “Because men and women do evil.”

          • John N

            We are able to live because we happened to be in one of the scarce places in the universe that allowed life to develop and evolve for some time – say a few billion years. And we evolved in such a way as to use our environment to its maximum. If you rather speak in parabels, we are the puddle that thinks this hole is perfectly created for us.

            We learn the stuff we know from interactions with other humans: our parents, our teachers, or friends and relatives, colleagues, … or from what other humans wrote down about their knowledge. If needed, we test them to see if they are true.

            I even have learned something from the bible, since I was raised as a christian.

            All men an woman intuitively know your specific god made all things? In that case, there would only be one religion worshipping one god. There are and have been thousands of religions and thousands of different gods, so this is clearly wrong. Children are born without the knowledge of gods.They have to be taught, or indoctrinated, into believing in gods. Which is easy at young ages, as christians surely know.

            Humans have made a mess of your creation? Possibly. Certainly we did not need an immaterial, all-powerfull all-knowing creator to do that.

            Although according to all life quality indices today more people than ever lead a good life, so it seems to be getting better.

            ‘Lawlessness’ has never occured; even ISIS uses laws. ‘Transgression’ is a biblical concept that is clearly contradicted by reality – see above. I don’t understand why christians keep on repeating that old canard – is it because they are still waiting for the second coming? Two thousand years, and still waiting?

            The same for ‘evil’ – evil does not exist outside your bible. People mostly do good things, but sometimes people do bad things, and a lot of people do bad things because they think their god requires it – like discriminating other people. But evil itself is not an entity. So your question is without sense.

          • Scooter

            “evil does not exist outside your bible.” Seriously?
            Do you lock your door at night? Why?

          • John N

            Because burglars might try to break in my house.

            Why do you lock your door at night? Because ‘evil’ is lurking in the dark?

          • Scooter

            Well, I think we both see that evil exists and is explained by a transcendent God who is the absolute standard of morality and which allows us to agree on what evil is.

          • John N

            Evil explained by a transcendent God ?

            Since when have we found evidence of a ‘transcendent God’?

            How can you explain a imaginary thing like ‘evil’ by using an even
            more imaginary thing as a ‘transcendent God’?

            And this imaginary thing is your ‘absolute standard’ of morality? Wow.

            I guess this absolute standard of morality is the reason we keep slaves, silence our women, punish our inobedient children by stoning them, rape our enemies’ wifes and daughters, and perform human sacrifices to celebrate victories.

            No, I do not see how evil exists and can explained in such a way.

          • Susan

            Actually today John, renowed scientist have proven that God is real and the events of the Bible are proving to be real as they discover more and more the truth of the Bible. In fact…you should ask yourself how so much of the Bible has been Proven. There are no errors, and in fact, go study the Hebrew or Greek and you will find no contradictions either. Go find a book by Lee Strobel called “A Case for Faith.” He was out to prove there was not a God. He was an atheist. The more he tried to prove there was not God…the more he proved there was. He is not the only man who tried to prove there is not a God…and each one…in seeking the truth, found out there is. Yes, God exists…I have seen miracles, and so much more. I pray that you seek the truth…and find the truth. There is only one truth and his name is Jesus. Seek him and you will find him.

          • John N

            So top scientists have proven that your god is real? Can’t wait to read their peer reviewed articles in accepted scientific journals.

            Until then, your god has for science the same status as invisible purple unicorns.

            By the way, if you had any expertise of science, you would have known that scientist never ‘prove’ anything. They gather evidence.

            Of course the bible contains verifiable and correct information. Every holy book does. Does that mean they are all true? More telling is that the bible contains factual errors and internal contradictions by the dozens. You cannot trust the book.

            Lee Strobel was a journalist. I thought we were discussing scientists here. You’ll have to do better than that.

            Listen, if you want to make a case for a scientist ‘proving’ god exists, please do. If the evidence is valid, I will change my mind.

            Miracles are evidence for god? Well, only if every other explanation has been investigated and dismissed. Never seen that happen.

            Oh, please stop unsollicited praying for other people. The only one feeling better about that is you.

        • Chuck Wallace

          The christian testament gets the 12 tribes of Israel wrong! (Rev 7.5-8) leaving out the tribe of Dan and listing both Joseph AND his son Manasseh as separate tribes!Matthew 27:9

          It also gets the tabernacle furnishings wrong, incorrectly placing the altar of incense inside the Holy of Holies with the Ark of the Covenant! (Heb 9.3-5)

          It has jesus attributing a verse of Zechariah to Jeremiah! (Matt 27.9)

          There are about 78 critical errors in the christian testament that are damaging to christianity’s claims. All of these have been extensively studied and written about in the scholarly literature for the last 300 years. The bible is NOT the word of God it is the garbled and redacted words of humans.

          • Jason Tirre

            The Lord has made the wisdom of the wise foolishness. He reveals the truth to babes but supposed learned men as you think you are the Lord days this, where is the scholar of this age??. Professing to be wise he has made himself a fool. There is no error regarding the tribes. The tribe of Dan forfeited their inheritance for reasons you should look up about the seed. Their is no mistake about the articles in the Holy of Holies. Let me make this clear. Christ is the Holy of Holies and those by faith has the Lord Jesus made to enter into the very Presence of the Father. Lastly Jeremiah and Zechariah both prophised of the same subject of context. The potters field of context which was bought with the money that judas used to Betray the Lord. These prophets are used interchangeably because one prophesied about the field the other about the silver pieces that betrayed the Lord. They spoke by the Holy Spirit and you miss the facts that Christ fulfilled those prophecies filling prophetic history that no mere man could do for this is the ordination of prophecy by The Lord Himself. How about the 66 books in the Old Testament that have been fulfilled PERFECTLY BY RHE MESSIAH OF GOD??!!. I stand unmoved and laugh at your so called studies what u see is a desperate man full of error whose agenda is to spuriously proclaim to study to stay in unbelief. You will always be blind unless you come to the Lord humbly as a child until then if God grants you proud and stubborn heart repentance and saving faith; God will let you be blind and remain hardened to your own destruction because you willfully look for errors hoping to find one to give you a justification to hold onto your miserable and wretched empty life and you will lose that and eternal life because yuh know not God. How about looking for the explanations and then make your choice, gnat strainer before you go spreading lies and slander my Heavenly Father. Let God Elohim be true and every man a liar.

          • Chuck Wallace

            You know NOTHING about me! So your pronouncements about me are the ravings of a lunatic fundamentalist ignoramus! You are one (uneducated) fundy standing against 10’s of thousands of published scholars in the field who hold these views!! The bible HAS documented multitudinous errors!! They’re not ‘lies and slander’, it’s an honest inquiry into the literary condition of the texts against the documented historical backdrop of those times. That’s what they’ve demonstrated for the last 300 years in French, Dutch, Italian, German, Swiss, Spanish, Hebrew, and English books and journals since F.C. Bauer and the Tubingen University ‘school’ in the 1700’s! This is modern historical criticism and it is the majority methodology practiced at all modern universities AND seminaries in Europe and America. (except for a handful of fundamentalist ones) Bart Ehrman does a good job of summarizing a lot of these viewpoints in his books.

            The so-called ‘fulfilled prophecies’ are problematic because of alterations done to some of the Hebrew texts to bring them in line with christian dogma! In some cases the Septuagint (LXX) was used as the source and it was NEVER accepted as authoritative by Rabbis and Hebrew scholars. Only the Hebrew text has ever been accepted as authoritative. For example in Psalm 2 the wording does NOT say ‘kiss the son’ because it’s entirely written originally in Hebrew. The word ‘bar’ means ‘son’ in Aramaic. In Hebrew it means ‘purity’. The same thing with almah, (Is 7.14) it is NOT the Hebrew word for ‘virgin’ it simply means ‘ young woman’. ‘Betulah’ is the Hebrew word for ‘virgin’. The cases (of Is 7.14) of the verbs were also mistranslated into English future when they were originally written in Hebrew present tense. Again christian translators relied on the Septuagint for the translations of some of these words. The Septuagint is notorious for the inconsistent quality of it’s translation from book to book – the Prophets are known to be extremely shoddily translated into the Greek. The same thing goes for Psalm 22. The Hebrew (Ps22.16) is ‘ka ari’ literally ‘like a lion’ it does not mean ‘pierced’! ‘Like a lion surrounding my hands and feet’. David is constantly using these allusions to wildlife in the psalms, dogs, bulls, camels, lions etc. to make his point about confronting his enemies. I am fascinated by the study of these ancient texts and their transmissional history. I just have to be honest that they are in no way ‘inerrant’.

          • Jason Tirre

            I don’t know you but I know the Words of my Savior the Lord Jesus Christ: and my wisdom is of Him for He is my wisdom. A lunatic???. Lol I’ve never been more sound than when I came to Him and was changed forever. Your arguments which are vain and fade into the nothingness that is of you when I gaze on the Savior. You do not have Gods Spirit living in you that why your so- called studies are as dead as you are. The Old Testament was translated from the Hebrew and Aramaic. The New Testament from the Greek period. So how are the prophets shoddily translated. Psalm 22. The lion did pierce the hands of my Savior; through sinners such as myself. What of the other precise and exact prophecies in that psalm alone fulfilled???. When David prophised and said my God my God why has Thou forsaken me??? How about when it is also written in that palm that they cast lord for His garments???…. There are many prophecies in that psalm alone fulfilled. I don’t have to know you, I can tell your character by his you speak. Also this smart guy, their ate millions of children if God; a lot smarter than you and me. I’ve known many far brethren with near genius IQ’s that all full of faith and the Spirit of the Living God and have the life from the Lord to back it up, what makes you foolish is you take the words of these so called scholars and believe the lying minority. Yet there are many who claim to belong to the Lord, His choicest servants are few. Psalm 2, what is the context saying??. Though the heathen rage as you do chuck. That matters little to God, go ahead and rage in vain, His King is on His Holy hill in mount Zion in the heavens at His right hand. If you don’t kiss the Son, submit to Him, believe in Him and obey Him you will perish. The sad but yet glorious truth, a happy truth it is for me actually, is that a little child can read that psalm and know what it means and you look for ways to reason yourself out of faith and oppose your own self. I can care less about the scholars because God has confounded the wisdom of this world maybe you should read about that in 1 Corinthians. God has taken the foolish things of the world to confound the wise. He has given me the wisdom of a scholar and I know this because everything you bring up I’ve heard before and He immediately gives me His truth to show me how blind you are.the lion did pierce my savior and do you know who that is??. It is the one you are if and serve.

          • Alicia Clark

            The passage in question is found at Matthew 27:9-10, where the Gospel writer commented on the money given to Judas Iscariot for the betrayal of Jesus. The verses read: “Then
            was fulfilled what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying, “And
            they took the thirty pieces of silver, the value of Him who was priced …
            and gave them for the potter’s field.’” The source of the prophecy concerning the 30 pieces of silver is Zechariah, not Jeremiah (Zechariah 11:12-13).

            It appears that Jeremiah, rather than Isaiah, was sometimes placed first in the collection of books called “the Prophets” (Matthew 22:40). Hence, when Matthew here spoke of “Jeremiah,” he was referring to an entire section of Scripture called by the name of its first book. This section of Scripture included Zechariah.

            In a similar way, Jesus designated as “Psalms” several Bible books also known as the Writings. Thus, when he said that all things written about him “in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms” had to be fulfilled, he was referring to the prophecies contained in the entire Hebrew Scriptures (Luke 24:44).

          • Chuck Wallace

            That’s a common, but false claim. The error stands. And all of the ‘prophecies’ have been mangled by deliberate mistranslation.

      • Sharon_at_home

        I guess you have not read the bible. There is no where in the bible that states the world is flat, nor that it is in the center of the solar system. Some of the references you may interpret as saying this are actually talking about other things altogether. Please read the bible over again and try asking people what certain passages are referring to. It will make your understanding of what the scriptures are saying much clearer.
        Any ‘errors’ in the bible have been shown to be interpreted incorrectly. you should look into the things you feel are confusing, or not saying what you think they should so you can see what others view them as before concluding that they are wrong.

        • John N

          I did not read the bible? How do you think I became an atheist?

          It is rather funny that religious people seem not to be able to read their own holy book, but need someone else to explain it for them. After all, if your god is really all-knowing and all-powerfull, he should at least have been able to dictate a text in a way everybody could read it – and according to reality.

          So dou you really want me to quote from your sacred book to show you are wrong? Really?

          Read Isaiah 40.22 – and don’t tell me a circle is a sphere. If you want more, please ask.

          Then check 1 Chronicles 16:30 and Job 37:18, and tell me how an unmovable earth surrounded by a solid sky is compliant with the universe as we know it.

          • Sharon_at_home

            Having someone explain something is like a teacher explaining biology. Just because you don’t agree with the teachers explanation doesn’t mean it’s not right. If you want to be an atheist, you are more than welcome to remain that way. But you shouldn’t criticize something that you haven’t – so to speak – gone to school to learn about. you are welcome to your beliefs, and I am welcome to mine.

            I actually said you needed to read the bible over again and suggested you ask someone about the passages you have questions about. A teacher of the bible would be best. Just as you shouldn’t go to a math teacher about history, you need to go to the one that has studied the subject to get explanations to help you understand

          • John N

            No, it is not.

            Biology is a science, explaining the real world of living organisms. It is complex matter, certainly at the detailed level. We need teachers to teach young people how life works,

            The bible is a book ment to explain gods and the world to common people of the first century, and to teach them how to behave. If it is not understandable for the layman, then it is useless. If it needs a ‘teacher of the bible’ to explain away the factual errors, internal contradictions, silly stories and lousy moral lessons, there is something very wrong with your holy book.

            So no thanks, I do not need a ‘teacher of the bible’ to explain me fiction. I prefer a real teacher explaining me how reality works.

          • Sharon_at_home

            Your beliefs will not change my own.
            Jesus said to wipe the dirt off from any city that will not hear them, and walk away. I’m doing that about this conversation. You won’t listen, so I’m giving up wasting my time explaining things to you. You have the right to disagree with me, just as i have the right to disagree with you. God bless!

          • John N

            I would listen if you would have something to say.

            If you just going to tell me I do not understand the bible because I do not understand the bible, while it is clear you do not know yourself what it says, his conversation has indeed no sense.

            By the way, atheism is not a belief. It is a lack of belief in gods. Please try to get the essentials right.

          • lizk

            ask God and He said He will answer. The Word of God has all the answers to lifes questions.

          • John N

            Thanks, but no. I already read your bible. I found the answers not really convincing. Probably I have to believe – switch of my brain – before I understand, and thatis not something I’m prepared to do.

          • lizk

            Jesus does not force anyone so you are entitled to what you believe but as for me I hope you come to know Jesus before probation is closed. I chose to believe God and His Word.

          • John N

            Good for you.

            No try to do that without discriminating other people. It would not only benefit you, but also christianity in general.

            Oh, and leave behind the unwanted preaching.It is soooooo boring.

          • lizk

            Even Jesus go and teach all nations read the whole verse.

          • lizk

            I am not discriminating other people for all has the freedom to believe and accept what Jesus did for them, we can all choose!! as to who we believe God or man.

          • John N

            Right. And if they chose wrong in your eyes, like when being homosexual, what happens?

            Don’t answer. You’ll be glad to discriminate them.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            You haven’t explained anything. He raised some questions which, instead of answering, you dismissed.

          • dadodeaf

            Sharon, thanks for trying to illuminate John, but being what is called a troll, he has (for now) chosen to live in dark places. Pray he come to see the light, but until then he will simply be wasting your valuable time.

          • lizk

            no it dosn’t. I would rather believe what God say then man for they cannot prove anything. They did not make the world or anything in the world but God has.

          • Becky

            Rubbish. Only someone that has never read the entire Holy Bible would believe it teaches that the earth is flat.

            The term circle in Isaiah 40:22 means circuit or compass and God Almighty sits above it, “‘Thus says the Lord: “Heaven is My throne and earth is My footstool.’” (Isa 66:1).

            Proverbs 8:27 clearly calls the earth, “compass” (circle, circuit, vault of the heavens).

            Job 26:10 says, “He drew a circular horizon on the face of the waters, at the boundary of light and darkness.” Not only did Job understand that the earth was round, he also understood that God Almighty “…stretches out the north over empty space; He hangs the earth on nothing” (Vs. 7)…like the sun and moon.

            1 Chronicles 16:30 is referring to the stability of the earth that God Almighty created…it is established. “He has made the earth by His power, He has established the world by His wisdom, and has stretched out the heavens at His discretion.” Jeremiah 10:12.

          • John N

            The term circle (chug) means just that – a circle. A compass is used to draw circles, and a circuit is a circle. No matter how much you try to explain this away, your bible simply says god is looking down on the circle of the earth – not the sphere.

            Job clearly understood the earth is round, like a circle. Only in that view the horizon is equal to the boundary of light and darkness – because it defines the end of the earth.

            And both Job and Samuel are saying very clearly that the earth rest on pillars – there goes another scientific fact.

            1 Chronicles: ‘… that the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved …’. Seems pretty unmovable to me. Which is no wonder , if it was supported on pillars and vaulted by the heavens. The ancient jews had a for us very strange concept of the earth and the universe, but it fairly well matched their observations.

            But an all-knowing god dictating the bible for us to learn, should have known better…

          • Scooter

            John, its important when reading the Bible as any other written document that figures of speech are recognized as used in everyday language, and we should interpret them as such. When we interpret Scripture, we strive to find the author’s intended meaning. Just as we use figurative language today, so also the writers of Scripture often used figures of speech, especially in passages written using poetic language like your examples above. This sort of poetic imagery (pillars, foundations, etc.) is commonly used in Scripture to describe how God upholds the world.

            We know that the earth does not literally have foundations and a cornerstone like a building; instead, God uses this figurative language to create a mental picture for Job (in your example). In the same way, animals do not talk and laugh, yet God also tells Job that the horse “laughs at fear” and “when the trumpet sounds, he says ‘Aha!’” (Job 39:22, 25, ESV).

          • John N

            So you do agree the bible has been written by human autors, using figures of speech, poetic language, analogies, hyperboles, … like humans would do. And it was written using the knowledge available to them, based on imperfect observations of the motions of the sun and the planets.

            Then why do you still think a god has anything to do with it? If there was an all-powerfull god, he would have known how to communicate to us – then and today – without using those deceiving figures of speech. And if there was an all-knowing god, he wouldn’t have made those mistakes we recognize today as those that would have been made by first century people. So, no reason to accept any gods involved. Which is exactly the same as for all other human-written holy books, by the way.

          • lizk

            read 2 Timothy 3:16,17 All Scripture is given by inspiration o God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness that the man of God may be complete, thoroughtly equipped for ever good work.
            Also His prophecies are true and He gives evidences to all who see them but I find scientist (not all for) they don’t want to believe.

          • Becky

            So, Job clearly understood that the earth was suspended on nothing, but believed the earth was a “flat” circle?? Lol! What ignorance on your part, heathen. Never did Job say that the circle was flat. In fact, there’s nothing within the scriptures that teach that the earth was flat. If it did, why not use the term “flat” to describe circle…it’s not like they didn’t understand what flat meant (lol). Well-known, ancient philosophers, poets and scientists understood, wrote and taught that the earth was “round”…“spherical”, and they disclosed that they gained that understanding from God’s word. As for the “pillars”, in those instances, it’s a figure of speech. Much like, “…the windows of heaven…” (Malachi 3:10).

          • John N

            Becky, now you are trying to defend the bible with arguments from the outside world. Naughty.

            A circle is flat. Flat does not discribe a circle. No discussion about that. The ancient jews did know spheres, still they uses the word ‘chug’, circle, to describe the earth. And they believed it was supported by pillars, and vaulted by the heavens on which his throne was set. They actually believed there were ‘windows of heaven’ in this vault, and ‘fountains of the earth’ to deliver the water necessary for the global flood, remember? In fact, they probably copied this concept from the Babylonians.

            Of course ancient philosophers and scientists already knew a long time ago. The ancient Greeks already suspected the earth being a sphere in 6bc, and Aristotle was able to support it by observations around 3 bc. And by the way, they did not need your holy book to tell them that, only observations of the real world.

            Sorry Becky, your not going to be able to wighle your way out if this. The bible had it wrong all the time.

            And the funny thing is that, in the end, the Greeks were wrong as well. In the 18th century we discoveredthe earth is not a sphere but a flattened ellipsoid. The Babylonians, the Jews or the Greeks had no way of knowing this, but your creator would have, of course.

          • Becky

            I’m not defending the bible with outside sources, heathen. I said those men understood the earth was round/spherical and attributed their findings to the teachings of the bible.

            Those men weren’t attempting to disprove a flat earth biblical teaching, as there’s no evidence of that, and God’s people didn’t dispute their writings/teachings about a round/spherical earth, because they were according to God’s word.

            There’s nothing within the bible that says the earth was flat…even a child would understand that. There’s no evidence that God’s people believed/taught that the earth was flat based on the teachings of the bible.

            Considering that you don’t believe in God Almighty, I’m not surprised at all that you believe the bible teaches that the earth is flat. The bible calls you a fool.

          • John N

            I showed you the evidence, bible thumper, and you don’t even want to look at it! It is right there in your bible!

            Now I do understand you don’t like it, because it means you have to accept your bible is errant, but that is a bad reason to deny it. Your bible is wrong in describing the form and the position of the earth. And that is not the only thing it is wrong about – it has the scientific level of the people of the first century or earlier. Just your thinking that in 2000 years we did not learn anything new, that would be foolish.

          • lizk

            God said there is nothing new under heaven that wasn’t done before. But what the unbelievers say they do not want to know God because then they are accountable to God. Jesus is coming soon because you are proving the prophecies correct, because you choose not to believe.

          • John N

            Ok, just preaching. Not at my door.

          • lizk

            If you really want to know God seek Him and you will find Him, read Matthew 7:7,8,11. also it’s not about religious people it’s about knowing Jesus what He has done for you. God also said the lost will not see the truth. He gave all of us freedom to choose to know Him and to do good to others. He gives us all freedoms and does not force people and we all have to answer to God but people do not want to know that and it’s not our righteousness it’s putting on Jesus righteousness.and following Him.

          • John N

            Do you actually have point here or are you just preaching?

          • lizk

            whatever you think. I don’t think you want to hear anything except lies.

          • John N

            So do you have to say anything but lies?

        • GyMack

          Sharon – ignore this LeftWinger. Nothing matters to delusional people like him.

      • dave_aka_lambsev

        God was once approached by a scientist who said, “Listen God, we’ve decided we don’t need you anymore. These days we can clone people, transplant organs and do all sorts of things that used to be considered miraculous.”

        God replied, “Don’t need me huh? How about we put your theory to the test. Why don’t we have a competition to see who can make a human being, say, a male human being.”

        The scientist agrees, so God declares they should do it like he did in the good old days when he created Adam.

        “Fine” says the scientist as he bends down to scoop up a handful of dirt.”

        “Whoa!” says God, shaking his head in disapproval. “Not so fast. You get your own dirt.”

        • John N

          Funny story. Did you invent it yourself?

          In reality, of course, scientists eager to approach your god have been looking for him behind every natural phenomenon attributed to him, like lighting and thunder, the movement of the sun and the planets, the seasons, life, diseases, ….

          They never found him.

          Now how would you explain that?

          • Alicia Clark

            I don’t go to doctors who are non-believers. I prefer ones who will pray with me, and ask God for His guidance

          • Susan

            They have found him….those who truly seek him. Some of the top scientist are finding and admitting in this last year that there is a God.

          • John N

            Ok. Show me the evidence!

          • Susan

            John, I am not going to debate with you. I do know one true fact. People do not get into so much discussion over what they believe is false. I do not believe in many things and I never debate with people who do. So…I do believe since you have made so many comments that somewhere inside of you that you have doubt about your thinking there is no God. Or you would not be trying to argue the point so fiercely. You cannot stop me from praying that you will be given the truth. I will be praying. I also…will NOT be debating with you on any comments you make. It is not for me to show you the truth, only God can do that…and he does show the truth to those who diligently seek him. Not just read the Bible, not just both and again it comes with diligently seeking him.

          • John N

            If you do not want a debate, then why did you enter into the discussion?

            Or did you just want to preach? Earn some brownie points?

            So I understand you have no evidence to back up your claim that scientists found your god. Therefore it can be dismissed. No thanks.

          • Susan

            John, I will not debate. There is no debate. Preach..certainly not. Brownie points…I love your sense of humor. John, I know I cannot change your mind, that is why I do not debate. I told you I can pray for you, and I have been. Only God can help you see the truth, no human can, if you do not want to seek the truth. I told you how to find God. And I no longer PROVE about the scientist because I have found that I can do all the work, but a person who does not want the truth will stay blind. Only a person who seeks it for their self because their heart wants to know the truth, will find it. Jesus says if YOU seek him, ….he in no way says others are to seek him for you. Thus, is my comment, no debate. Truly, you are seeking John, if you weren’t, you would just have ignored all of this instead of commenting. I smile…cause there is something in you stirred up….or you would not be trying to argue about something you say you have no belief in. Have a great day John, I honestly mean that…..because I think you are on a search.

          • John N

            Indeed. I was on a search for the reason why normally rational people suddenly loose all critical thinking when there god or their holy book is involved. As an example here, a religious person claimed no one is smarter than the bible.

            Instead I get preaching and prayers.

            Nice illustration of what I already thought, but not much of a help

          • Susan

            John, it is through faith. Every person has faith in someone or something. How did I happen to become a follower of Jesus? It took years. As a child I was molested, in my early 20s I was raped. I was homeless for awhile. In fact..I hated man, I hated life and I wanted to die. Plain, simple…just be gone from this hell on earth. One night I cried out and simple yelled at God if he were real..I needed to know, cause I had my doubts that if there was a God he would allow those things that happened to happen to me. And WORSE was the fact that if Jesus was real, how could he offer my molester, my rapist forgiveness and salvation if they asked for forgiveness and repented. Really? How could a loving God do such a thing? Well, I started to pray, more like just talking…and I was given a Bible to read. I went through such emotion I cannot tell you all I felt. It did not happen over night like it does for some, nor did it take only a week, month or even a year. But in time something IN me started to change. There was a peace that I cannot even put into words that took over me. The more I read the word, the more I prayed, the closer I got to Jesus. No shrink could heal what happened to me, no person could help. . but through time, Jesus did. I know his voice. I feel his presence. I was told one time that you can believe in the wind, you cannot see it, you see what it does, but you don’t see it. I understood that was like Jesus. No, I do not see him, but I see what he does, I feel him. I know he was with me. I know I was a sinner and I asked forgiveness of my sins and accepted him to be my savior. It took more years to realize that is a HUGE LOVE. HUGE! What was even bigger was the fact that I realized how much he loves us because he could love those two men that abused me and he could forgive them IF they would ask. Now, if it were just me, I would NEVER have forgiven them…it had to be something greater, it had to be someone that could love in a much bigger way than I could ever imagine. Since than, he has shown me so much about forgiveness, love, he reveals himself to me in so many different ways. The only reason he does is because I chose to seek him…seek him in a desperate way. He more than gave my life back to me, he has blessed me in ways I could never have even imagined. Are people smarter than the Bible? Not sure about that but I can tell you not one person is smarter than our heavenly Father. I know I may not understand everything now…but I do know that when I die an earthly death, I will understand all then. I have seen God heal people. A friend of mine used to have a leg 4 inches shorter than the other. It grew out right before our eyes. Even her doctor cannot explain that one. I could give you more testimony of what I have personally seen. Not just things people have said, but actually seen it myself. So yes, I know there is a God, I know his only begotten son died so that I may have eternal life with him. It is way more than human thinking…because God is way more than any man can even fathom. Now, I know you can still be a doubter…that is OK. But I do know one thing John, I am going to be praying for you, you would not be here if you were not searching…so I just encourage you to keep seeking, if you honestly want to know, he is just waiting for you to ask him.

          • John N

            Susan, if you do not want to discus the topic, then stop posting. I do not need preaching nor prayers. Thanks.

          • Susan

            John, I did want to argue. Nothing in the above was was sharing a true life, mine. So…since I can only believe at this point, you want to argue, I will pass on that. I have shown you how to find truth…what is the saying? I think the saying is, you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. Well, I have shared with you, and all you want to do is argue. I will still discuss with others here. Ones that want truth and not a fight. So this truly is my last comment to you. I cannot open your eyes, your heart or ears. Since you cannot even tell what a discussion is. In fact…please, don’t even bother in making a comment back. I am going to block it from my email.

          • John N

            No, you did not want to discuss. You did not want to answer my questions. Instead you made unsupported claims, and dodged my request for evidence. And when I pointed you to that, you started preaching.

            This is a reaction I’m not used to. I sure hope it is not typical for religious people.

          • Lupe

            We don’t have to explain it.
            You explain:
            How the thunder and lighting “just happened”.
            How the earth has a PERFECT tilt and it’s it’s a PERFECT distance from the sun. One inch either way and we burn or freeze.
            You atheists can’t explain life. You have a THEORY but no proof.
            You can’t explain diseases. You want to put man’s explanations on them but after a little research they all fall through.
            We don’t have to EXPLAIN God. We believe we have a relationship with Him through Jesus the Christ.
            Why is it that you atheists ALWAYS demand proof that God exists.
            Can you prove He doesn’t exist? I don’t mean your tiresome arguments above I mean solid, scientific(your argument), proven evidence that He doesn’t exist.
            In the end it won’t matter to us. We believe we (disciples of
            Jesus) will be in heaven with Him when we die.
            You believe you will simply cease to exist.
            If we’re wrong. No harm done.
            If we’re correct (The Bible says we are)…

          • John N

            Lupe, where did you find this list of nonsense?

            The earth has a perfect tilt? Perfect for what? What would have happened if the tilt was slightly different?

            The distance between the earth and the sun yearly varies with 5 million kilometers. Why do you think an inch would make any difference? By the way, in a few billion years the sun will surely burn the earth. Oeps. Small mistake of the creator?

            Biologists can not yet explain the origins if life. Can you?

            Diseases unexplained? Probably you missed the last hundred years of medical science, because most diseases have been explained and can be cured. But you probably never visit a physician?

            And I’m afraid you missed something else. No scientist is trying to prove your god does not exist. That would be a silly exercise. If you want us to accept your god , it is up to you to prove he exists, not the other way around. Good luck to you.

            And to end with Pascal’s wager. I like Pascal’s wager. What if I’m wrong? Could happen, not very probable, will need a lot of argumenting from my side.

            But what if you are wrong and it is not Jahweh, but Baal, Odin, Zeus or one of the 4000 other gods humans think exist is waiting to judge you? Baal is really pissed of by his rival Jahweh, you know.

            What? These gods are not real? Thanks for proving my point.

          • Lupe

            I wasn’t speaking of scientists, I was speaking of atheists.
            True scientists lean toward a creator. I know, I know in your world that isn’t true.
            As to the other gods. They’ve been there since creation.
            If you’d read the Bible you’d see that. That’s why the second commandment says there will be no other gods before me.
            I can explain the origins of life: “In the beginning God created…”
            Note I said EXPLAIN.

            You missed it, I think. Pascal’s wager is laid out there for people to accept or reject not to argue. If you wish to dismiss it so be it.
            No one is going to try to change your mind.
            We, Christians, will give you the good news in the same way. Accept or reject. It’s up to you. If you don’t we are instructed to “…wipe the dust off our feet…” and keep on walking.
            Again, if we’re wrong, nothing lost. Don’t care about those other gods. They don’t have anything to offer. Jesus offers eternal salvation.
            Only one that does.
            The others offer nothing.

          • John N

            You didn’t answer any of my questions, so I assume you agree this list was nonsense.

            True scientists lean toward a creator? Wishfull thinking. True scientists, whatever their religion, do not let that religion interfere with their scientific work. True scientists let the evidence lead to the conclusion, not the other way around.

            You seem to have a strange understanding of the verb ‘to explain’. ‘In the beginning God created…’ does not explain anything, it is merely a claim. An explanation would contain at least the when, where, how, and probably why.

            >’Jesus offers eternal salvation. Only one that does’
            So that is it, isn’t it? You are only in it for the money. Eternal salvation, just for you. Never mind the people you’ve offended and discriminated here on earth, hiding behind your holy book. It is all about you.

          • Lupe

            Round and round we go where it stops, nobody knows.

          • John N

            Short for: I have no rational arguments left, therefore nonsense will do.

      • Lupe

        Um, no. The Bible does not teach the earth is flat. It does not teach the earth is the center of the solar system. You surely are getting your information from loony sources.
        I recommend you read it before you criticize it.
        You forget that MOST of the theories we have today came from those “people having only a basic understanding…”. Except for the THEORY of evolution.
        The OT, was written approximately 4000 to 5000 years ago. There is more documentation proving the Bible than there is proving the assassination of Lincoln.
        I could go on for pages and pages but I think you get the idea.

        • John N

          Oh no, there we go again. Please read my comments on this page and tell me were I’m wrong. And please, no’figure of speech’- excuse. It only shows your bible can not be trusted in explaining the world.

          I got my information from loony sources? You could say that. The King James Version of your holy book is some loony source.

          Most or current scientific theories come from the ancient jews? I did not know that. You mean like the atomic theory, the germ theory of disease, the theory of quantum mechanics? Can you be more specific?

          I do not need documentation proving the bible. We know it exists and we pretty well know how it came to be. So I got no idea where you are heading. Or are you meaning to say your god did it? No that would be something. ..

    • Jolanda Tiellemans

      Children need Christian education for morality and normality.

      So you mean pushing it on the children? Got it

    • Jolanda Tiellemans

      Which nations? You mean the Muslim countries, yes they do. Western countries, don’t know about any mega evils here.

    • Philip John

      This is not simply immorality, but perversion to pervert for the quick spiritual kill. The time is short for the devil and there is a great need to push perversion into humans without any rationale, even to small children. All govts, religious, institutions, academics, medicals, psycho-logics, socio-logics, etc;, should all bow before this great demonic agenda unanimously.

  • gui1hermegano

    If “love is love,” then incest and pedophilia and bestiality are all just fine. Poor Jerry Sandusky, languishing in prison, is a victim of this bigoted, uptight society. They show release him and pay him reparations. Love is never wrong.

    • Guest

      Please, grade school debate can deal with a false choice like that.

      Does everyone think some people can have love interests that are men? Yes. women? Yes.
      Do we allow anyone to have love interests that are very close relatives? No. Preadolescent children? No. Other species? No.

      See the difference – allowing everyone to do the same thing others can already do is not equivalent to letting anyone do something that no one is allowed to do.

    • Paige Turner

      Children and Animals cannot consent. That is the difference here.

      Consenting adults are not breaking the law.

    • Peter Leh

      “If “love is love,” then incest and pedophilia and bestiality are all just fine.”

      If Ignorance is Ignorance would that person know he is being corrected?

      Ignorance is not a christian virtue.

  • robertzaccour

    How about we leave the parenting to the parents? School students don’t need to be learning about Adam and Steve.

    • SSGT_Randolph

      And leave the teaching to the teachers.

      • robertzaccour

        Teaching children is a big part of being a parent.

  • Reason2012

    Indoctrination at its finest. They prove that homosexuality is not an orientation, but an unnatural perversion brought about by indoctrination, confusion, mental instability and/or abuse.

    Google homosexual kindergarten and be flooded with growing list of cases of them going after everyone else’s kids and grandkids, exposing them to images and ideas of homosexuality and gender confusion.

    • Paige Turner

      Nothing in your post is true. You cannot influence someones sexuality and this has been proven.

      Homosexuals dont recruit. Christians however………

      • Slidellman4life

        Nothing in your post is true.

        Falsehood #1.

        You cannot influence someones sexuality and this has been proven.

        Which is why they are not teaching it in kindergarten.


        Homosexuals dont recruit.

        “I and a lot of other people want to indoctrinate, recruit, teach, and expose children to queer sexuality AND THERE’S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.”

        Villarreal, D. (2011, May 12). Can We Please Just Start Admitting That We Do Actually Want To Indoctrinate Kids? Retrieved April 07, 2016, from http://www. queerty. com /can-we-please-just-start-admitting-that-we-do-actually-want-to-indoctrinate-kids-20110512

        • Paige Turner

          Have you read the queerty article and understood the context? Here is the relevant passage.

          “How about this? How about we accept that we want kids to think better about queers and then create ads—with tons of verifiable supporting evidence—that just plainly state that denying marriage equality ruins people’s lives? That would at least be honest and a heck of a lot more compelling then this fearful mincing we’re doing to the tune and delight of our foes.”

          Its an article about acceptance and tolerance. Why am I surprised that you don’t understand that? Some children are already gay. They deserve to feel accepted. You cannot change that.

          As for influencing someones sexuality – You have offered no proof that this can be done.

          Was your sexuality influenced? Do you have such low sales resistance?

          • Slidellman4life

            Here is the relevant passage.

            Nice try at spin and deception. It almost worked–nope, just kidding. FAIL.

          • Paige Turner

            I dont see how it is a fail. It is clearly an article about equality not recruitment in the context that you want it to be. Its very simple and straight forward.

            You have grossly misrepresented the article and I have quoted it and cited the reference. That certainly got you riled up so my guess is that you didn’t read it or understand the context until I have politely pointed it out to you.

            Perhaps seeing the article as a propaganda piece for recruitment is more about your projection and judgement than anything else. No spin was required.

            You also fail to address how people’s sexuality is influenced.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Then, perhaps, you could enlighten us as to where the error is? Instead of sneering unhelpfully.

          • Slidellman4life

            Excuse me, but why do you still have posting privileges?

            I would think any post making implied favor of the sexual abuse of children on even the most rabidly left websites would be grounds for an immediate ban.

            But you do it on a Christian website, and it is allowed to stand?

            This bothers me, and not a little bit.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            “Excuse me, but why do you still have posting privileges?”

            I dunno. I don’t make the rules around here.

            “I would think any post making implied favor of the sexual abuse of children on even the most rabidly left websites would be grounds for an immediate ban.

            But you do it on a Christian website, and it is allowed to stand?”

            That would be pretty egregious. If you see it happen anywhere, let me know.

  • Reason2012

    Adults continue to permanently turn away from homosexuality, even after decades of believing the lie they were “born that way”, proving it’s not genetic, but the product of indoctrination, confusion, mental instability and/or abuse.

    Homosexual behavior is most literally pointed out as a sin, and God has not changed on that regard. But if a person has those inclinations but does not act upon them, does not dwell in lust upon others, but is instead struggling against them to avoid them, then it’s not a sin. It’s just like sinful inclinations of any kind: it’s acting upon it when it becomes a sin.

    And this is what God says about sin and specifically the behavior of homosexuality:

    Romans 1:26-27 ”For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: (27) And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their_lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ”Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [men who willingly take on the part of a “woman” with another man], nor abusers of themselves with mankind [s odomites], (10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”

    1 Timothy 1:9-10 ”Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, (10) For_whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind [s odomites], for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”

    Jude 1:7 ”Even as_Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”

    Luke 17:29 ”[Jesus said] But the same day that Lot went out of_Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.”

    Matthew 19:4-6 ”And he [Jesus] answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, (5) And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? (6) Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.”

    Jesus made it quite clear God made us male and female so that a man will leave his father and mother (not two fathers, not three mothers and so on) and cleave onto his wife (not his husband and so on).

    The Word of God rebukes us all – even if we all try to say we don’t believe the Bible, the very Word of God will be our judge when we face Him. And God is a righteous judge and will judge us all – not turn a blind eye to our sin. Do not be deceived by the world: it’s God we will have to convince that His word was a lie, not men. What happened in Noah’s day when the entire world rejected God? Did God spare them because there were so many? No – they all perished except for Noah and his family!

    Proverbs 9:10 ”The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.”

    God spared not His chosen people – we are kidding ourselves if we think He will spare the United States of America if we choose to blatantly turn away from Him.

    Jeremiah 12:17 ”But if they will not obey, I will utterly pluck up and destroy that nation, saith the LORD.”

    Luke 17:28-30 “So also as it was in the days of Lot: they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; (29) but the day Lot went out of Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from the heaven and destroyed them all. (30) Even so it shall be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.”

    Romans 1:18-32 “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [suppress] the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

    For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

    Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

    For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

    And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, m urder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”

    The entire Bible points out men having_sex with men is an abomination. Likewise woman having_sex with women. It’s not just Paul that pointed it out.

    Genesis 19:4-13 “But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of S odom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them [men wanting to have_sex with men].

    And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing [he offers his daughters to be_raped to keep them from having_sex with another man – shows_rape is not the issue but male on male_sex]; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

    And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.

    And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place: For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.”

    These two messengers were sent to destroy that place before the event where they tried to_rape these messengers.

    Leviticus 18:22 “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”

    Leviticus 20:13 “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination …”

    Even cross-dressing is an abomination:

    Deuteronomy 22:5 “The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.”

    Deuteronomy 23:17 “There shall be no_whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a s odomite of the sons of Israel.”

    1 Kings 22:46 “And the remnant of the s odomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.”

    1 Kings 15:11-12 “And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, as did David his father. And he took away the s odomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.”

    2 Kings 23:7 “And he brake down the houses of the s odomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.”

    Ezekiel 16:49-50 “Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister S odom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.”

    And the “pride” parades about homosexuality are more of the same.

    Matthew 19:4-5 “And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?”

    Not father and father. Not mother and mother. Not his husband.

    And only two people of opposite gender can become “one flesh”.

    Live forever, people – not temporarily only to be cast out for living for the things of this world.

    May God/Jesus Christ be glorified!

    • Paige Turner

      This is your standard cut and paste every time there is an article about gay people. Its disgraceful that you continue to peddle this snake oil.

      I have asked you many times to show me all of these people that you refer to and you cant even give one example.

      There is no such thing as ex gay.

      • Ambulance Chaser

        “This is your standard cut and paste every time there is an article about gay people. Its disgraceful that you continue to peddle this snake oil.”

        Not to mention, tiresome.

        • Paige Turner

          Its not very original. Same old same old.

  • Peter Leh

    Seem a bit premature for 4 year olds, no?

    • hytre64

      They want to brain-wash them young.

  • Scott Davenport

    That Pam Strong is one evil pervert, lying to kids telling them she’s happy. Homo’s are anything but gay..that’s a lie they tell themselves everyday to hide the fact they’re so screwed up….they really make you wanna throw ’em off the planet…..

    • Paige Turner

      Hate speech and death threats! Shame on you Flagged.

      • Scott Davenport

        wow…are you that paranoid in real life???… 🙂

        • Paige Turner

          No, just on to you and your hate speech.

  • Michael D Coxie

    why not just offer a solution where if you choose for your child not to participate don’t sign for permission for the child to participate in the discussion

    • Ambulance Chaser

      There is no “discussion” to opt out of. It’s part of the entire curriculum.

      • Michael D Coxie

        at least it used to be that way for us growing up

      • Michael D Coxie

        and again therein lies the problem of forcing one person’s belief down everyone else throats

        • Ambulance Chaser

          Well, if the child’s parents don’t like it, they’re free to leave. And they did.

          • Michael D Coxie

            there’s the lie regarding tolerance.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Well, what would be a “tolerant” response? Change the entire curriculum to satisfy this one family?

          • Michael D Coxie

            as I stated they can and used to have an opt out for those who wish not to participate instead of forcing it down someone else’s throat.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            So, should Christian schools have an opt-out of having teachers mention Christianity if some students find it hateful, silly, or in some way distasteful?

          • Michael D Coxie

            yes they should when or if you go to church or to ANY gathering does anyone lock you into a room and hold you there at gunpoint and tell you that you cant leave? just curious. I’ve never seen any church gathering or for that matter any gathering like that.

  • Truthhurts24

    Western society is on the brink of total destruction from Christ because of these offences against the minds of innocent children and many other abominations which are promoted as normal.

    • John N

      Is it? That is horrible.

      Now what kind of deity would destroy a whole civilization, including believers, innocent children, and people who never even heared of him, because some of his creations ‘offended him’? That would be utterly cruel and totally morally corrupt behaviour. And it would mean he would make the same mistake again, so not very smart either.

      I suggest you take this up with your god. After all, you are the one loving and worshipping this vindictive deity. And he is supposed to listen to you, doesn’t he?

      • Truthhurts24

        He is going to destroy this wicked society whether you want to believe or not because of the wicked. Christ will provide and take care of his people but not those who continue to corrupt this world with their evil. Do not try to make God look like a tyrant with your ignorance of his word I can tell your lost just by reading your post. God ways are higher than mans ways so what seems illogical to man is perfect in his sight.

        • John N

          So your god will destroy the whole world because he did a lousy job with creation – again – and we are not allowed to call him a tyrant?

          Now how would you call such a deity who is clearly not competent in creating humans, and therefore punishes those humans?

          • Truthhurts24

            Call him what you want but remember your fate will be determined by your own tongue Proverbs 18:21. I pray that you will come out of your ignorance of Christ and find salvation. Christ has done nothing to corrupt humans he gave us all the free gift of eternal life and free will to decide where we will want to spend eternity either in hell or heaven so do not accuse him for the chaos in this world. Blame sinful man who loves the ways of darkness for all the problems in society.

  • acontraryview

    From their website:

    “Montview Community Preschool and Kindergarten embraces diversity and inclusion as essential to a balanced education. We seek to create an environment that challenges children to open their hearts and minds to each other—to understand and celebrate their similarities and differences. We encourage children to find common ground, respect, and appreciation for the rich diversity among individuals. We strive to reflect the larger world within our school community through admissions, curriculum, and best practices.”

    If Ms. Sinclair is not in agreement with that stated goal, then she is free to place her child in a different school.

    • hytre64

      Apparently their “appreciation for rich diversity among individuals” does not include Born-Again, Bible-Believing Christians.

      Yes, she is free to take her business elsewhere and should find a school that doesn’t discriminate against Born-Again Believers.

      • SFBruce

        They didn’t dismiss the child because her mother is a born again, Bible-believeing Christian, she was dismissed because that was the only way the school could honor the mother’s request to opt out of the school’s commitment to diversity. The girl’s mother has every right to her religious beliefs, but she doesn’t have a right to impose those beliefs on the entire school.

        • hytre64

          She wasn’t trying to impose it on the entire school, just letting her daughter opt out of a section. I guess that the schools commitment to diversity does not extend to those with differing beliefs.

          • SFBruce

            I don’t think you completely misunderstand my comment, as well as the school’s commitment to diversity. There’s not a “diversity period” at some specified time of the day; rather, the school is committed to the idea that diversity should be embraced all the time. It would have been impossible to honor the mother’s request without changing their whole approach.

      • Ambulance Chaser

        I don’t have any evidence that anything in the curriculum contains Christian bashing.

        • hytre64

          No, just hanging out the sign, “Christians not welcome here.”

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Again, I see no evidence of that.

          • hytre64

            The evidence was them asking her to leave.

      • acontraryview

        Just because they are not allowing the beliefs of one mother to dictate the curriculum of the school does not amount to not having an “appreciation for rich diversity among individuals”. Are you aware that they do NOT discuss that people have different religious beliefs?

        “that doesn’t discriminate against Born-Again Believers.”

        In what way does this curriculum “discriminate against Born-Again Believers”?

        • hytre64

          Perhaps we are not reading the same article. She was asking to exempt only *her* daughter from a certain part of their curriculum, not asking the school to change the curriculum for the entire school. By their teaching and by their actions they are, in effect teaching the beliefs that *all* lifestyles, sexual preferences, etc are equal and that any opinion to the contrary should not be acceptable.

          Personally, if that girl were my child, I would have pulled her from that pre-school rather than just requesting an exemption from that part of their curriculum. A little leaven leavens the whole lump.

          • acontraryview

            So you aren’t aware that they do not discuss that people have different religious beliefs. Got it. Thanks.

            So you are not able to explain how this curriculum discriminates against “Born-Again Believers”. Got it. Thanks

            I stand corrected on my comment that she wanted the school to change the curriculum.

            “that any opinion to the contrary should not be acceptable.”

            No, the materials teach that there is diversity among individuals and that diversity is not a reason to disrespect or bully others. Apparently the mother doesn’t want her child learning that.

            “Personally, if that girl were my child, I would have pulled her from that pre-school ”

            Why? What part of what they are teaching would you not want your child to learn?

          • hytre64

            What some people don’t realize is that “diversity and respect” by liberals means respect for diversity *except* for a diversity of opinion. They will not respect someone who has a “diverse” opinion that homosexual conduct is ungodly.

  • Jason Tirre

    I hate homosexuality as so does my Father in heaven. It is of most sins vile in the sight of God!. In Romans chapter one it is on the lowest rung of sins to fall into. It is of the vilest and most unclean of sins. Even the body and the way God made it to function and reproduce according to His will is a witness against the perversion and strangeness of this most odious of sins. The sad thing is that these filthy ones don’t even feel shame anymore but are not content until they confuse and pervert others into falling into the same uncleaness as they are in. I pray that these ones would be cut to heart and that Gods Holy Spirit would not give up on them and that they would feel their need to repent and look to God to be forgiven and healed. God loves them no less and I know it grieves our Father to see them in such bondage. I pray they stop opposing themselves and trust the Lord to save them. The Lord does not wish for them to perish and I wish that not on them either but their wicked agenda must stop. The Lord will not spare those who seek to willingly destroy, pervert and confuse innocent children. I don’t care what anyone says. Call me what you want, homosexuality is SIN and it will never be acceptable to The MOST HIGH GOD and His Son Yahusha our Messiah and to His children either.

    • John N

      If you really hate it that much, you should stop doing it.

    • Ambulance Chaser

      OK, well, you don’t have to be gay then. No one is stopping you from being completely, utterly, heterosexual.

      • Jason Tirre

        Lol, sorry man. I am utterly heterosexual. Never have been gay and never will be, but I tell you what if I was caught in that sin and its not to be their identity and be consumed by it that’s all they do or say, I would be ashamed and cry out to the Lord to save, deliver, and heal me. I wouldn’t be trying to manipulate and confuse and oppress children with this shameful way. Trust chaser I’m far from that by Gods grace in Christ Jesus. Ask my wife

        • John N

          And how would your lord react if you told him you utterly hate part of his creation, including yourself, for a reason you or they cannot change?

          I think the same way as any rational human being. He would be disgusted by such irrational hate.

          You know there are psychological reasons for such deep hate of other people. Mostly it is a matter of denial.

          • Jason Tirre

            I have much to say but I won’t. My words won’t help you. I give you the words of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto eternal life. John 12:25.

          • John N

            So if I understand you well, you utterly hate a group of people, homosexuals, and do not mind discriminating and oppressing them.

            And your justification is that your bible promissed you eternal life if you do so.

            I think I got it.

          • Jason Tirre

            Slander me John but it is foolish to slander Elohim and his word. How did you come up with that conclusion. Read it again. Wow how darkened is your understanding?. Did u say I hate homosexuals and how do you know I oppress them? Do you know me. I am faithful to God and I side with Him against sin and myself and when I don’t He deals with me. I hate the garment defiled by the flesh but not the one who wears it. What religion do you speak of? There is no comparison to fellowship and relationship to the Living God and and religion. Religion is what you had and that’s why you don’t believe.unless you humble yourself as a little child you will not be able to enter the kingdom of God

          • John N

            >’I hate homosexuality …’
            ‘It is of the vilest and most unclean of sins…’
            ‘… these filthy ones don’t even feel shame anymore but are not content until they confuse and pervert others into falling into the same uncleaness as they are in…’
            ‘ … I pray they stop opposing themselves …’
            ‘…I wish that not on them either but their wicked agenda must stop…’

            Do you need any more? I think this clearly shows you consider homosexuals as second (or even third-) class humans, and you don’t mind oppressing them.

            And hiding behind your bible with its promise of eternal life and behind your so-called ‘personal relation to god’ – newspeak for religious bigotry -, only makes it worse. I do not care what your imaginary god supposedly said – if you can not think for yourself and conclude that you are showing a very ugly behaviour, you are beyond help.

          • Jason Tirre

            Go to bed John. The only one imagining anything is you. Athiests are the typical smartest dumb guys in the world.

          • John N

            Wow, I did not see that coming. That must be the most convincing argument for defending vicious behaviour I ever saw.

            I’ m stunned. Having a personal relationship with an imaginary deity surely enlightend you.

          • Jason Tirre

            The wicked always accuse The Lords children of doing wrong but it is God who justifies. God is real and awakened me to His reality. There is much substance and undeniable proof in walking by faith in my Lord. For when you believe you will SEE. You are as a vapor and one day you will be just an like an imagination and to the righteous it will be as if you never existed, unless you repent you will perish John.

          • John N

            Right, I forgot believing in gods gives you a free ride to hate and discriminate other people and to interfere with their lifes, like not allowing them to marry. I do not understand how you can rationaly justify this, but of course I’m not a believer. For me, you are just an ugly person.

            One day I will die and perish and not long after that it will be like I never existed. The same thing will happen to you, by the way.

            The big difference between us is that I can live with that knowledge, while you need to hide in fantasy of eternal life. Well, apart from the fact that I do not need to hate other people to have a good life.

          • Jason Tirre

            eternal life is knowing the Father who is our God and His Son. This is eternal life, otherwise I wouldn’t want to live forever. I will see my Lord Jesus’ face as will you. Again you oppose yourself and you have made yourself unworthy of eternal life because you life in the fantasy of your own existence. You are hardly real to me. All you athiests sound the same. Athiests at the root word means “against God”, you fight so hard against the One you don’t know, it’s because you know He exists just as you know you do. Psalm 53 describes you well”The fool has said in his heart there is no God”, when you translate it from the original it says “The fool has said in his heart no God. You see the difference?. You are saying no to Him not that He doesn’t exist. How about the many athiests who were converted, who humbled themselves and repented and found the Lord their God??. Better explained He found them for He Is not far from any man. There are scientists and many other intelligent people much smarter than you and I who have believed in the Lord and know Him. It is not a matter of intellect. It is a moral and spiritual issue. You are dead in your sins and I know you are miserable because when we don’t have Gods love that is all we can really know. Fleeting happiness which is shallow, cisterns that run dry, hopelessness upon hopelessness, far from that ever being so with the child of God. So how do I hate homosexuals???. Did I say that ??? Or do you in your envious desperation conjure and delude what I said to vainly try to gain some advantage. Why would I tolerate and or comprise and condone that which God hates and kills the ones He loves. I don’t hate homosexuals. I hate their sin and their actions. Do you know difference or do you unwisely couple the two huge different actions together???. The wages of sin is death and our Lord says that the souls that sin will die. How can I say I love them if what is destroying them and seperating them farther and farther from God is ok. The word of God says that if I do not tell them if their inequity that their blood is on my own hands. You see love does not spare or withhold truth from the one who is danger just to spare Their feelings. The Lord days cry aloud and spare not. I would want someone to care for enough to tell me the truth. John you hate them because you don’t care enough to tell anyone anything, either way you have no life or authority in you to say or do anything, you love yourself, your lie and your complaceny and apathy to do anything about your own fading condition. We live and more and have our being in our Father and God, not a breath enters your lungs without His sustaining and He promises those who seek HIM with their WHOLE HEART shall find Him and that through His Only Begotten Son: my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. That you won’t do because you prefer your own misery. Pretty sad.

          • John N

            Another load of nonsense I see. Sorry, I stopped reading at the fifth sentence or so.

            >’Athiests at the root word means “against God”, you fight so hard against the One you don’t know, it’s because you know He exists just as you know you do.’

            Atheism means lacking belief in gods. Any gods, not just yours. You’re largely an atheist too, because you probably do not belief in Zeus, Odin, Baal or Ganesha. I just do not belief in one god more than you do.

            It is from the root a- (without) -theos (gods), so without gods, not against gods.

            Atheists do not ‘know’ there are no gods. Some may, they are called agnosts. They certainly don’t know there are gods, that’s simply your fantasy.

            So please get the facts right before starting a discussion. It would be too easy a win for me.

          • Jason Tirre

            You don’t know what you are. Athiest do know there is GOD but you glorify Him not as God. Look it up scholar athiest means against God not that there is no God. You think you won. You sound pretty foolish to me. Again I can hate the garment stained by sin but not the one who wears it. So out of love I point them to the one who though can make their garments clean as He did for me. Again a child can know the difference.

          • John N

            Repeating your argument doesn’t make it any better. Until you’re resdy to publish your own dictionnary, the definition of atheism is not up to you to decide.

            Oh yes, the old christian ‘Love the sinner, detest the sin’-nonsense. Our sexuality is part of our identity. You can not just love part of it and hate the rest. Just admit that you hate people that are different from you, that would be more honest.

            And out ouf love, you want to dicriminate other people? Nice. But nobody wants or deserves that kind of love. Stop doing it.

          • Jason Tirre

            Yes it does because you hear what you want to hear. When you go back to the earliest translations from the Hebrew in that psalm 53 that’s what it means and also do a deeper etymology study not just the bias infidel one that you one sidely choose to see. Since when is sexuality part of your identity? Just because you say that, by what authority, lawless and GOD less one. Of course athiest choose the basest parts of human natures because they can’t see past the selves. Until you do an unbiased study mister know it all stay in the cage of your sinful mind that you prefer. You don’t know enough of the word of God the bobld to say much I haven’t heard before. You bore me. Now I have a life to live for my Lord and others I suggest you live your life as well. I will pray for you you stop worshipping yourself and you mind.

          • John N

            >’When you go back to the earliest translations from the Hebrew in that psalm 53 …’
            You get our definitions of a 16th century concept from a book written in the 1st century? Wow! What else do you get from that book – the definition of nuclear fusion? Computers? Space travel? The theory of evolution? No wonder you seem ignorant about modern life.

            Please remain living in the worldview of the 1st century. We won’t miss you.

          • Jason Tirre

            John I know all about this modern life and man is not so modern and advanced as you think. Nothing is new under the sun. I’m pretty sure I went to better high school than you did which was private and learned about all this bullcrap of modern man that you bought into. Learned about these lies as freshman Evolution a theory with no empirical evidence that is a fable even Darwin saw the holes in the theory he so desperately tried to prove which contradict the higher natural laws of thermal dynamic. You’ve never seen a man evolve and if you are that evolving man I’m not impressed.Fine you believe that bullcrap that you came from an ape, maybe you did. I believe God, and I’m from Him thanks to be the Father for my Lord Jesus. I’ve lived a full life and thank the Lord I will live unto Him and die unto Him daily. What and who do you have.???. A disqus forum that your lonely and empty life cleaves too. You called this ‘modern’ era advancement. God calls it apostasy and departure. I’m not going to respond to you anymore sad man so keep talking to yourself on this thread. May the Living God and God the Son Adonai Yahushua have mercy on your darkened soul before you leave this life. You also forgot about the Dead Sea scrolls which are much older and very accurate but I’m sure you have all the answers John.

          • John N

            You went to high school and learned about the theory of evolution and ‘the higher natural laws of thermal dynamic’?


            So you will not have a problem to explain to us what these ‘higher natural laws of thermal dynamic’ actually say? And why they would contradict evolution?

            And they told you we come from an ape? Are you really sure? Because the only schools I know of that do that, are bible schools. Real schools teach us that we are apes – we belong to the same family as gorilla’s and chimps.

            And of course man has evolved. Didn’t you visit any museum during your higher education? Did you not see the remains of our ancestors? Didn’t you notice the changes? How strange. Maybe you did not learn as much as you could have? That would be a pitty.

          • Jason Tirre

            I have much to say but I won’t John. The Words of my Lord and Messiah Yahushua are much better. He that loveth his life shall lose it; but he that hateth his life in this world shall keep unto eternal life. John 12:25. I’m glad that God has found me worthy to despise my sinful life in this this world and time. God is mercifully dealing with me because I believe and know His Son. It is a privilege to give up myself for Him as he teaches me. Something you know not of because you chose to oppose yourself. Not all the atheistic johns in the world can move me from my Elohims righteousness for I’m in his hands and all that concerns me He will perfect even out of choas and darkness. All God wants is that we trust Him. Let that seek into your ears, if you don’t deny yourself and hate your life in this world you will lose all you have and are, and trust me we have and are nothing without him. The bible will be a closed book to you as long as you have that same old wicked and sinful heart until then your life is a parable of what will go devastatingly wrong with those who willfully oppose their Elohim and Creator.

  • Harry Oh!

    We’re slowly but surely being programmed and judging some of the comments here, it’s working in a powerful way. When Liberals approve of something (no matter how ludicrous) they want EVERYONE to be forced to approve it too. When they dis-approve something (like Christianity) they want EVERYONE to hate it. 20 years ago this psychotic teacher would have been jailed for child abuse (and rightly so), it defies comprehension how effective the radial liberal agenda has been in bending the minds of the hapless wonders who buy into this insanity.

  • GyMack

    Sodomites are delusional people who need to seek psychiatric and medicinal help.

    • John N

      Christians are delusional people who need to seek psychiatric and medicinal help.

      Now that was easy, wasn’t it?

      Any more of those ‘rational ‘ arguments?

      It would be more honest of you to just admit you want to discriminate them because they are different.

      • GyMack

        Aagghhh Dippy – it is the other way around regarding discrimination. But you already knew that.
        Just say no to drugs, it does effect your thought process.

        • John N

          You mean homosexuals are actively discriminating christians?

          Any example of that?

          Some people consider religion to be the worst drug available. I’m tending to say they are right. No other drug has this long time negative effect on the perception of reality.

          • GyMack

            You are an example of how homoz discriminate against normal people.
            Religion has no bearing on a person who chooses a perverse sexual lifestyle.

          • John N

            More claims, no evidence, switching to mind reading, not doing that very well either. Well, what could I expect?

          • GyMack

            It is understandable that you ignore facts because they don’t match yours.
            That’s because you are delusional at best or mentally challenged at worst.
            It does not matter what the subject matter is, if it does not fit into your belief(s), then you discard it.
            What normal people want is for people like you to leave their children alone and to stop trying to indoctrinate them into believing sexual perversion is the norm.
            We will always agree on disagreeing on this subject matter.
            Get help and one day you can be a contributing member of our society.

          • GyMack

            Now see, your statement is worthy of a cut and paste as it describes my comments to your arguments.
            BTW stop complaining to the PC Police that my post offends you – it shows your tolerance level.
            I suppose you can go WhinnyBitch and get my responses deleted, which is the norm for people like you.
            If you are offended – move on.

          • John N

            Wel, it seems you are the one offended by people you don’t know doing things in private which is none of your business.

            They offend you so much you even call them sick.

            So take your own advise and move on.

          • GyMack

            LOL Clown you continue to prove you are delusional.
            If having sex with animals and preying on children is your fortes – have at it, but don’t try to lecture people on what is normal or not, because of your delusions.
            It is a proven fact that people who believe they are something that they can never be, are known to be delusional.

          • John N

            You are not only a lousy mindreader, you are also ignorant on human sexuality, I see.

            Homosexuality is simply atteaction between people of the same sex. No children or animals involved. If you want to muddle the water, I’ll be glad to join. Do I need to remember you who has been very good on preying on children for years and years, and getting away with it because they were respected religious people?

            I do understand what ‘delusional’ means. People who believe things that are known to be fictional, like angels, gods, heaven and hell, are called delusional. Since homosexuality is known to exist, your definition does not cover them.

          • GyMack

            Now see, if you had of received counseling as a kid, you might have had a normal and healthy sex life.
            Again, religion has nothing to do with sexual perversions.
            No one religiously prays to be a pervert, that is a conscious, albeit delusional act.
            Meds, Counselling and support from family and friends leads to recovery.

          • John N

            No thanks, my sex life is fine, I do no need sex counseling from a christian – I value my life too much.

            Religion has nothing to do with sexual perversions? Then why are religious people so upset with other people’s sex life and why do they want to control it? That’s really perverse, you know.

            And why would I want to recover? From what?

            Oh, I see – your mind reading abilities have fooled you again, and are telling you I’m a homosexual, don’t they?

            No problem. Meds, counselling and support from family and friends will lead to recovery.

          • GyMack

            Don’t pout WhinnyBitch, I know it is hard for you to grasp common sense.
            Being a LGBTQRSTUV person is not a religious setback, because it is a state of mind.

            By encouraging a TG that (s)he is normal is just as bad as the belief itself.
            You keep alluding to teachings of a church, or bible, or Mad Magazine as hate against delusional people. That opinion has nothing to do with facts.

            You can have sex with a dog and call it puppy love, but you won’t convince anyone, other than someone who is into Beastiality, that it is normal sex.

            There would not even be arguments about the LGBTQ Movement had it not been for delusional people, such as yourself, who want to indoctrinate others into your lifestyles.

            I don’t give a shit what you want to do in your bedroom, just don’t try to indoctrinate the children into believing it is normal.

          • John N

            You are not longer talking sense here – just insults and irrational ranting.

            The only people trying to indoctrinate children are religious people. They try to fool children into believing imaginary concepts like gods, heaven and hell, and eternal life, at a very young age because they know that children are easy to indoctrinate, and once that is done they will not easily leave behind those imaginary ideas.

            If you think teaching children that diversity and equality are good things, you surely have been indoctrinated well.

          • GyMack

            Every time you open your soup cooler, you prove to the world, that you are delusional.
            You must of put your parents through hell by acting feminine. I bet you still believe that you were BornGay.
            Diversity and equality are terms used by delusional people who want to smooth over their sexual perversions.
            you attack people whom you think are Christian because they know that you live a “sinful” lifestyle and they don’t buy into your lies that Sexual perversion is normal.
            Having sex with a dead person and having sex with another man are two examples of perversions. That person who has sex with a dead person wants us to believe that that is normal, also. Hhhmmmmnnn, sounds like you preaching to the choir.
            You hate people who have opposing views. The average person does not care what you do behind closed doors. They do object to the indoctrination of children. When there is a SSM situation with children involved, think of how confused and hurt they feel. Who teaches morality to those kids?
            Just because something is legal in the eyes of the law, it does not mean it is morally right.
            Don’t be that hater, dude.

          • John N

            More christian love and compassion. I mean more insults and hate talk.

            You still do not understand I’m not homosexual, do you? Stop making a fool of yourself. If you want to know, just ask.

            The difference between homosexuality and sex with children, animals or dead people is consent. Children, animals and dead people do not consent. You analogies are silly.

            Who says I hate people who have opposing views? I love to make fun of people who are unable to think for themselves, but depend on a book to define what’s right or wrong for them. I agree, that is not nice of me. But it is so easy!

            Indeed, the average person does not care what you do behind closed doors. Except for christians, who think their god would destroy our civilization because of what we do behind our bedroom door.

            As for the indoctrination of children, that is surely a christian speciality. And you still did not explain why teaching children about equality and diversity is ‘indoctrination’. Indoctrination is pushing your religious worldview on other people. Teaching them reality is not indoctrination.

            >’When there is a SSM situation with children involved, think of how confused and hurt they feel.’
            Why would they be confused and hurt? Because they are being cared for by two loving people?

            >’Who teaches morality to those kids?’

            Well, certainly not a religious bigot using the biblical god as their standard. After all, we don’t want our children to think that keeping slaves, silencing women, killing inobedient children, raping the wifes of your enemies and performing human sacrifice is morally acceptable, do we?

          • GyMack

            So you are a BigotedHomosexual after all. Who would of thought that
            As for the indoctrination of our children, all you have to do is look at the required reading and writing assignments.
            Your last paragraph discusses IslamicValues, which are not American Values.
            The damage caused by HomoActivists resemble acts of juvenile delinquency – tagging bldg’s, making false bias complaints, etc..
            Your visible hatred towards normal people is pretty much standard practice. Your obviously biased views, do nothing to promote your lifestyle.
            Good luck in the future and try to not be a hater, it makes you look like crap.

          • John N

            So you still do not understand it. What the heck

            What about the reading assignment? (writing assignement? In preschool? Did you actually read the article are are you just supposing?) Why don’t you just answer my question? How is teaching children about equality and diversity equel to ‘indoctrination’?

            >’Your last paragraph discusses IslamicValues, which are not American Values.’
            My last paragraphs are about your bible. Do you want me to teach you about your own holy book? Did you actually read that one?

            >’The damage caused by HomoActivists resemble acts of juvenile delinquency – tagging bldg’s, making false bias complaints, etc..’
            What damage is done by HomoActivist? Why were they not sued, if they broke the law?

            >’Your visible hatred towards normal people is pretty much standard practice. ‘

            You where the one starting this conversation with telling us you hate normal people and want to oppress them, remember? I did not forgot. It is here for everyone to read.

            >’Your obviously biased views, do nothing to promote your lifestyle’

            How do you know what my lifestyle is? You don’t even understand I’m not a homosexual – you just assume I am.

            To conclude, you have reading problems – or lie about what you read -, you are a lousy mind reader assuming things you would like to see, you have limited knowledge about what your holy book says. And that’s the least of your bad points. Hating and opposing people because they are different, that must be your most ugly attribute. Therefore, no good luck to you.

          • GyMack

            Your version of equality and diversity is delusional.
            Those law enforcement agencies that turn their heads and do nothing, are part of the problem.
            I don’t hate normal people and those who oppose my views, that is what the LGBTQRSTUV Community does.
            Your gonna have to drop out of school soon, because CommonCore has messed you up.
            Move out of your mom’s basement and try to become independent.
            Don’t forget to seek psychiatric assistance and use the medications you need and are prescribed.
            I don’t hate the LGBT Community – I disagree with their indoctrination of our children, but that doesn’t rise to hatred or biases against them.
            When a person chooses to dress up as the opposite sex and parade around the cities, it gives rise to others who try to analyze what message you are trying to send.
            In the past and probably will continue in the future, I have helped many people who come from different backgrounds with lots of different opinions. As long as you don’t try to “educate” other children or myself, about your lifestyle, we will get along fine. Just by acting normal, no one gives a crap if you are into activities that are perverse to others, they will accept you as a person.
            No advertising means that the majority of people you run into see you as normal. If you walk like a duck and quack like a duck, you’re a duck.

          • GyMack

            WhinnyBitch is what you sound like in your rants. Your responses to my statements is indicative of your delusions.
            Stop your hate, no one cares.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            They do think about that a lot, don’t they, gay sex? Makes you wonder.

          • John N

            Don’t wonder. If asked, they absolutely deny being gay, because that would make them sinners. And we do know christians never sin ….

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            If having sex with animals and preying on children is your fortes

            You people think about sex a lot.

          • GyMack

            Not my fortes, Jolanda, it is John’s.
            Be safe out there, there’s a lot of delusional people out there.

          • Jolanda Tiellemans

            Well I feel safe, not so many delusional Christians in my little town.

          • GyMack

            LOL that is a myth that liberals try to pass on to anyone who will listen to them.
            It is a fact that liberals who control cities, counties, states and the country itself, are failures. I don’t blame the church for their failure to do a good job. They hate the Constitution and do everything they can to circumvent it.
            Stay safe young lady.

  • Becky

    Public schools are not a place for Christians anymore…if they ever were really.

  • dave_aka_lambsev

    Hope they get a tuition refund…

  • Warrior

    Christians should take your children out of public schools and give them a proper education from a private school or home school. Oh, and God says cast not your pearls before the swine. ( people who will not listen to truth ) dust off your feet and move on to someone with reason in their head. Some people should be banned from commenting here. This is a Christian site so trouble makers should not have a voice here, They should go to the devil`s site and comment and there are plenty of them.

  • peanut butter

    If it’s not Biblical principles being taught, with this Country being founded on the precepts of the Bible, I sure don’t want my Grandchildren to be taught that way. I guess if this had been taught 50 years ago, I would still know that two men or two women can not make a child together. “Go forth and replenish the Earth”. If you can’t do that, you are NOT doing what you were created for as a man or a woman in the first place.

  • Gary

    These people fail to understand the difference between an effeminate man and prescribing to immoral homosexual perversion and sodomy. There is nothing wrong about being an effeminate man until you start practicing homosexual acts, there in lies the sin and perversion of what God has created.

  • Gary

    Smart parents will remove their children from public schools and home school them if they want to raise undamaged children who do fall victim to perverse teachings of the immoral.

  • Gary

    Our churches need to open schools for Christians so they can be taught morals, truth and integrity. Wold is truly turned to darkness and satan influence is strong as the end of times nears. Protect your children that they may be saved.

  • Gena B

    I think parents are going to have to decide to either go along with what the schools teach or send their kids to private schools, Christian or home school. It’s not really such a bad idea to keep kids out of public schools. If anyone is influencing the young minds then it should most definitely be in line with what the parents believe and how they want to raise their kids. Kids are like sponges and if the majority of the world is walking down the broad path, does not mean you have to let your kids blindly fall with them.

  • lizk

    I believe what they are teaching is to confuse the children as to what they are. God created us He made man and woman. All this is happening because of sin and the devil loves to confuse people.

  • TheBottomline4This

    This is wrong. It is not the schools place to teach this stuff. Stick to the academic subjects and leave the rest to the parents.