Christians Warn Upcoming ‘Shack’ Movie Depicting God as Woman Could ‘Far Outweigh’ Harm of Novel

Christian leaders who have issued warnings about William P. Young’s bestselling novel “The Shack,” which portrays God as a woman and espouses universalistic beliefs, state that if the scheduled national film release is faithful to the text of the book, its distribution could “far outweigh” the harm already done to souls through the printed page.

“If the film is a faithful portrayal of the events and the theology of the book, then every Christian should be gravely alarmed at the further advance of beliefs that smear the evangelical understanding of the truth of the Bible,” James B. DeYoung, author of “Burning Down the Shack: How the ‘Christian’ Bestseller is Deceiving Millions” and an acquaintance of Young, told Christian News Network.

As previously reported, “The Shack,” released in 2007, is stated to have sold approximately 20 million copies and has been translated into 39 languages. In 2013, Lionsgate Entertainment obtained the rights to turn the book into a film, which is now scheduled to be released in March 2017 and is currently being promoted nationwide.

“The Shack” tells the story of a man named Mackenzie “Mack” Phillips who faces a crisis while on a family vacation as his youngest daughter Missy is abducted and presumably killed in an abandoned shack. Years later, the grieving father receives a note from “Papa,” who tells Phillips that it has “been a while” and to meet up at the shack the following weekend.

Reluctantly, Phillips returns to the site, where he meets the Godhead, portrayed as what Young calls a “large beaming African American woman (page 82),” a young Asian woman named Sarayu, and a carpenter named Jesus. Together, they seek to help Phillips deal with his faltering faith and to learn to forgive.

The film features Octavia Spencer as “Papa,” who is asked blatantly by Phillips, played by Sam Worthington, “Where were you when I needed you?” Sumire Matsubara plays the Holy Spirit, portrayed in the book as Sarayu.

Schimmel

“Young’s pretentious caricature of God as a heavy set, cushy, non-judgmental, African American woman called ‘Papa’ (who resembles the New Agey Oprah Winfrey far more than the one true God revealed through the Lord Jesus Christ—Hebrews 1:1-3), and his depiction of the Holy Spirit as a frail Asian woman with the Hindu name, Sarayu, lends itself to a dangerous and false image of God and idolatry,” Joe Schimmel, pastor of Blessed Hope Chapel in Simi Valley, California and host of the documentary “Hollywood’s War on God,” told Christian News Network.

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Schimmel preached a message at his church entitled “The Shack and the Seduction of the Church,” which he is currently making available as a doctrinal warning to Christians, as well as a list of 13 theological heresies in the novel as outlined by Dr. Michael Youssef.

DeYoung

DeYoung says that he knew Young well prior to the book’s release, and personally witnessed Young’s slide into universalism—a belief that everyone will eventually go to Heaven, and that any punishment will only be temporal.

“In 2004, [Young] prepared and released a 103-page document for our M3 Forum in which he rejected his ‘evangelical paradigm’ and embraced universal reconciliation (UR),” he explained. “He has never renounced the particulars of universal reconciliation, [and] he refuses to say that other world religions are in error in their assessment of Jesus as the unique Son of God.”

Schimmel noted that Young has made similar statements in public interviews, denying that God will pour out his wrath on unrepentant sinners, as well as the fact that Christ took God’s wrath as the substitutionary atonement for the wicked.

“Tragically, these heresies are reflected in the aberrant fictional theology presented in The Shack. These are not mere trivial matters but strike at the very heart of God’s character and the gospel that saves our eternal souls,” he said.

Schimmel warned that such depictions, much like the children of Israel who forged a golden calf, create a god in man’s image.

“Jesus warned of a time, after His ascension, that some of His servants would conclude that He was delaying His coming and would also live wicked lives (Luke 12:45). Sadly, as we await our Lord’s return from heaven, many are guilty of fashioning images of God that they find more accommodating to their desires and chosen lifestyles and calling these gods ‘Yahweh,'” he said.

Young encouraged Christians to ask themselves key questions about the film’s content.

“My word to the viewers of the movie ‘The Shack’ is this: If they confess to be Christians, they should pay close attention to the statements made by the actors and ask themselves: Does this theology agree with the Bible and Christian doctrine? Or, is it more in line with the old distortions of the truth that Christians have identified as heresy as early as the Council of Constantinople in 533?” he said. “Contrary to UR, 2,000 years of Church history cannot be wrong.”

Editor’s Note: The concerns of those interviewed for this report have nothing to do with the actress’ race. Any comments making the matter into a racial issue will be deleted.


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  • Trilemma

    Hopefully this movie will get Christians to seriously question the doctrine of eternal conscious torment in a fiery Hell and see it as one of the destructive heresies that Peter said would sneak into Christianity.

    Hopefully, the portrayal of the Trinity in the movie will get Christians to question that doctrine as well.

    • CrossHugger

      That will only prove how strong a Christian one is. If you do not believe that the Bible is the word of God, you are not a Christian. I will go out on a limb and say by virtue of your wish list, that you are not. You can not add to it nor delete the parts you do not like.

      • Trilemma

        Christians who strive to believe what the Bible actually says will reject both the doctrine of Hell and the doctrine of the Trinity. Both of these doctrines were imposed on the Bible from pagan beliefs through mistranslation and misinterpretation.

        • Amos Moses

          Christ spoke of Hell and what you call “doctrine of eternal conscious torment in a fiery Hell” probably more than most things …….. so FAIL on that score ….. deary ……. would you like the list ………..

          • Trilemma

            Jesus talked about a valley on the south side of Jerusalem. Jesus talked about punishment after death but never said the punishment would last forever. He used a word that means pertaining to an age such as eonian or millennial when referring to the duration of the punishment.

          • Amos Moses

            “Jesus talked about punishment after death but never said the punishment would last forever.”

            First, Where Christ is there is no time ….. it is outside of time ….. so it is eternal as we understand time ….. so wrong on that score ………….

          • Trilemma

            Where in the Bible does it say that where Christ is there is no time or that Christ is outside of time?

          • Amos Moses

            Christ is eternal as is the triune Godhead ….. eternal means absent from time …… or as scripture puts “everlasting to everlasting” …..

            Deuteronomy 33:27 The eternal God is your dwelling place,
            and underneath are the everlasting arms. And he thrust out the enemy before you and said, Destroy.

            Isaiah 40:28 Have you not known? Have you not heard?
            The Lord is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth.
            He does not faint or grow weary; his understanding is unsearchable.

            The word eternal means “everlasting, having no beginning and no end.” Psalm 90:2 tells us about God’s eternality: “Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God.” Since humans measure everything in time, it is very hard for us to conceive of something that had no beginning, but has always been, and will continue forever. However, the Bible does not try to prove God’s existence or His eternality, but simply begins with the statement “In the beginning God…” (Genesis 1:1), indicating that at the beginning of recorded time, God was already in existence. From duration stretching backward without limit to duration stretching forward without limit, from eternal ages to eternal ages, God was and is forever.

            we are not where God/Christ is ….. we are in time ….. He is not …. we cannot be where he is and not be eternal with Him ……

            14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
            14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

          • Trilemma

            Same verses from 1902 Rotherham’s Emphasized Bible which is a literal translation without theological biases.

            Deuteronomy 33:27: Above, is the God of aforetime, And, beneath, are the Arms of the ages,—So he driveth before thee the foe, And doth say—Destroy!

            Isaiah 40:28: Hast thou not known, Hast thou not heard, That, The God of age-past time—Yahweh, The Creator of the ends of the earth, Fainteth not, neither groweth weary—There is no, searching of his understanding:

            Psalm 90:2: Before, the mountains, were born, Or thou hadst brought forth the earth and the world, Even, from age to age, thou, [wast] GOD.

            Revelation 14:11: And, the smoke of their torment, unto ages of ages, ascendeth; And they have no rest day or night, who do homage unto the beast and his image, or if anyone receiveth the mark of his name.

            The translation you’re using is biased to support a particular theological belief.

            Even something that is eternal can still exist in time. The universe may be eternal yet we exist in it in time. Where does the Bible actually come out and say God exists outside of time?

          • Amos Moses

            “Even something that is eternal can still exist in time. ”

            Christ stepped out of eternity to become a man of flesh and to dwell among us ….. so partially true …. but not the whole truth …..

            “The translation you’re using is biased to support a particular theological belief.”

            i do not use a translation ….. i rely on the original Greek and Hebrew ……..

          • Trilemma

            Where in the Bible does it say Christ stepped out of eternity?

            You quoted from the ESV. If you rely on the original Greek and Hebrew then you would know that the ESV mistranslated those verses.

          • Amos Moses

            i can give you the Greek or Hebrew ….. but my guess is you do not read either ….. so i gave it in English …. dont be obtuse …………

          • Trilemma

            Why did you choose the ESV?

          • Amos Moses

            i prefer the KJV or the Geneva …. but it matters not for this purpose ………..

          • TheBottomline4This

            It’s usually best to stick with the KJV. Most others have issues that many don’t notice. The KJV is the most reliable.

          • Trilemma

            But the translation version does matter. In one version, a word might be translated “eternal” and in another version the exact same word might be translated “eonian.” That makes a big difference in the meaning of the verse where that word is used.

          • Rob Cahill

            There is no first hand account of anything Christ said or did, We don’t even know if he ever existed!!

          • Amos Moses

            is that a scientific, theological or personal opinion ………

          • Rob Cahill

            That’s common knowledge

          • Amos Moses

            ok so i heard personal opinion ………… thnx ……….

          • Amos Moses

            there are ancient historical pagan texts that mention the person of Christ ……… so fail ………

    • TheBottomline4This

      Says the non believer who comes to a Christian site thinking they have THE answers. lol

      • saganhill

        As opposed to a religious nut site that claims to know all the answers?

        • Jason Todd

          LOLOLOLOLOL!!!

    • Max

      You sure do like to tell Christians what to do.
      Why don’t you mind your own business?

    • Amos Moses

      if we did … then we would not be christians as the trinity is a central tenet of christianity ………….. and nothing was “snuck in” …….. just more of your garbage to trash what you clearly do not understand ……

      • Trilemma

        Nothing in the Bible indicates a person must believe God is triune in order to be a Christian. Some Christians such as Jehovah’s Witnesses and Christadelphians do not believe God is triune. The Bible never refers to God as three in one or in any other way that would indicate triunity. The early Christians in the Apostles Creed didn’t profess God being triune.

        • Amos Moses

          to believe differently is to believe in another god ….. if you do not believe in who God is ….. then it is a different god …… and not God or Christ …. it is antichrist ………. this is called Christology ……….. the study of who Christ is …. and it is in 1 John …………

          1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

          1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

          2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

          • Trilemma

            People can believe different things about the same thing. Some people believe President Obama is a good president. Some believe he is a bad president. Different beliefs but the same president. In the same way, Christians can have different beliefs about the same God. Some believe God is triune and some don’t. But it’s still the same God.

            A Christian can believe that Jesus is the Christ and that the Christ has come in the flesh without believing the Christ is a triune God. None of those verses require belief in triunity.

          • Amos Moses

            “People can believe different things about the same thing. ”

            they can believe whatever they please …… does not make what they believe in the samething …. and scripture says so ….. if it is Not God …… then it is not Christ and is antichrist ….. i can believe you are a horse ….. does not make it so … nor is it accurate …. nor is it you …… it is something else ……….. “But it’s still the same God.” ….. NO …. it is not ……

          • Trilemma

            Believing God is triune does not make it so unless you can provide a verse in the Bible that definitively establishes God as triune.

          • Amos Moses

            28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
            28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them ***** in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: ******
            28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

          • Trilemma

            Matthew 28:19 is a disputed verse and is considered by many to be an interpolation. It originally said baptizing them in the name of Jesus Christ.

            However, simply listed those three together doesn’t make them triune. It would make just as much sense if the three listed were completely separate beings. So this verse does not definitively establish God as triune.

          • Amos Moses

            yeah … no it is not …. the Great Commission is not in dispute ….. except by you …. you are thinking of Mark … fail …. try again ……… we worship one God in three persons as revealed in scripture ….. “And God” ….. “LET US MAKE MAN” …… PLURAL ….. more than one …. from the beginning …..

            Gen 1:26 And God(H430) said,(H559) Let us make (H6213) man (H120) in our image

          • Trilemma

            I didn’t mean to say the Great Commission was in dispute. What’s in dispute is the baptizing part. Instead of baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, many scholars think it was originally baptizing them in the name of Jesus. And saying to baptize in the name of the Father and the son and the Holy Spirit still doesn’t make them a triune God.

            When God said, “Let us,” it simply means He was talking to someone else. It doesn’t make the us a triune God.

          • Amos Moses

            what they “think” does not matter ……….. what was written DOES ……. and what was written is ………. baptizing(G907) them(G846) in(G1519) the(G3588) name(G3686) of the(G3588) Father,(G3962) and(G2532) of the(G3588) Son,(G5207) and(G2532) of the(G3588) Holy(G40) Ghost:(G4151) ….. or …. in Greek …… βαπτίζω αὐτός εἰς ὁ πατήρ, καί ὁ υἱός, καί ὁ ἅγιος πνεῦμα ….. and it is not in dispute …………..

            “When God said, “Let us,” it simply means He was talking to someone else. It doesn’t make the us a triune God.”

            Wrong ….. “Gen 1:1 In the beginning God” …. the word translated “God” is the Hebrew word “elohim” …… when a word in Hebrew ends in an “-im”, it denotes a PLURAL …… like adding an “s” in English …………. God singular, BUT PLURAL in nature …… “but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; ”

            ĕlôhı̂ym
            el-o-heem’
            Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: – angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.

          • Trilemma

            What was originally written does matter. And that’s what the dispute is about. What was originally written. There are plenty of web pages that address this dispute.

            If there was a group that did things in the name of Mom, apple pie, and the girl next door, that would not mean that Mom, apple pie, and the girl next door were some sort of triune woman. In the same way, doing something in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit does not mean that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are some sort of triune being. That’s not how using “name” in this manner works.

            Just because Elohim is a plural noun doesn’t mean plurality is indicated. Making the noun plural is a Hebrew way to intensify the noun. It doesn’t mean there’s a plurality in God’s nature. Making it plural is a short hand way of saying God of gods.

          • Amos Moses

            ” And that’s what the dispute is about. What was originally written.”

            nope …. we have 25.000 ancient texts of the NT ….. it is not in dispute ….. except by unbelievers ……..

            ” Mom, apple pie, and the girl next door, that would not mean that Mom, apple pie, and the girl next door were some sort of triune woman. ”

            strawman …… nope ……

            “Just because Elohim is a plural noun doesn’t mean plurality is indicated.”

            Yes it does …… and that is what was written and is not in dispute …..

    • maam2u

      so, you want to get christians to doubt and reject important parts of the Bible. i see. What’s new, some nonbeliever is trying to pull people away from God, His Word, and from Christ. And you want people to disregard all God’s warnings, so they won’t avoid danger.

      • Trilemma

        No, I do not want to get Christians to doubt and reject important parts of the Bible. I want Christians to see what the Bible actually says and not what they’ve been taught they’re supposed to see. I want them to reject the things they’ve been taught that are wrong.

    • Jason Todd

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

    • Radix

      Oh, is that how Christianity is finally exterminated?
      We see this movie, then instantly we throw aside the beliefs that Christians have held for 2000 years?

      Hate to bust your little fantasy of the extinction of Christianity but NOT GONNA HAPPEN, so you better ask Santa for something more feasible.

      We’ve been around for 2000 years, we’re an anvil that has worn out lots of hammers. A gaggle of homosexuals is not going to destroy us.

      • Trilemma

        No, that’s not how Christianity is finally exterminated. That’s how it’s made better. Christianity has been around for 2000 years but its doctrines have not. The doctrine of the Trinity wasn’t finalized until the end of the fourth century. For a time, the Godhead was just the Father and the Son, a binity, based on the Roman god Janus who the Romans believed was the beginning and the end. Later, the Holy Spirit was added to the Godhead to complete the Trinity.

        • Radix

          You are ignorant, like all atheists.

          The doctrine of hell was not a later addition, it’s straight from the mouth of Jesus himself. You atheists never have even opened a Bible in your sad little lives.

          Fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul; but rather fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28
          [The Greek word translated “hell” here is not Hades, but Gehenna, place of torment.]

          You serpents, you generation of vipers, how can you escape the damnation of hell? Matthew 23:33
          [The Greek word translated “hell” here is not Hades, but Gehenna, place of torment.]

          Cast the unprofitable servant into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 25:30

          He that shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.
          Mark 3:29

          He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; but he who believes not shall be damned. Mark 16:16

          If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off; it is better for you to go through life maimed than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched; where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:43-44
          [The Greek word translated “hell” here is not Hades, but Gehenna, place of torment.]

          Enter in at the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many there are who go in that way. Matthew 7:13

          Depart from me, all you workers of evil. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you shall see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. And they shall come from the east and the west and the north and the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. And, behold, some which are last shall be first, and there are first which shall be last. Luke 13:27-30

          The Kingdom of Heaven is like a fishing net that is thrown into the water and gathers fish of every kind. When the net is full, they drag it up onto the shore, sit down, sort the good fish into crates, and throw the bad ones away. That is the way it will be at the end of the world. The angels will come and separate the wicked people from the godly, throwing the wicked into the fire. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 13:47-50
          “Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.” John 3:18

          “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.” John 3:36

          “For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind.” John 9:39

          “Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out.” John 12:31

          “There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day.” John 12:48

          “I, the Son of Man, will come in the glory of my Father with his angels and will judge all people according to their deeds.” Matthew 16:27

          “You must give an account on judgment day of every idle word you speak. The words you say now reflect your fate then; either you will be justified by them or you will be condemned.” Matthew 12:35-36

          • Trilemma

            Gehenna is the name of a valley on the south side of Jerusalem and should not be translated Hell but simply left as Gehenna. The dominant belief was Universalism for hundreds of years until Rome took over control of Christianity with the conversion of Emperor Constantine. That’s when the doctrine of Hell began to displace Universalism and Gehenna began to be interpreted as a place of eternal punishment.

          • Radix

            Jesus was not a universalist. That’s why Christians are not universalists.

            The Bible can be accessed online. When your porn sites are down and you’re really bored, you ought take a crack at that New Testament and see just how ignorant you are.

          • Trilemma

            In John 12:32 NIV, Jesus said, “And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” Not just some people but all people. Sounds universal me. And, yes, there are many Christians who are Universalists.

        • Radix

          You are ignorant liar and a fool.
          The Christian creed known as the Old Roman Symbol existed in AD 200, possibly earlier. It plainly refers to Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, as well as to the virgin birth of Jesus. In fact, the Trinity is very clearly referred to in Matthew 28. Obviously you have never read a Bible in your life.

          Your atheist blogs are full of misinformation. You appear to take pleasure in spouting lies.

          • Trilemma

            The Athanasian Creed, written 400 years after Christ, clearly asserts that God exists as one God in three persons. However the Old Roman Symbol and the Apostles Creed do not make that assertion. They simply list the three and assert faith in each separately. Simply mentioning the three does not make them a triune God. Same thing applies in Matthew 28. Simply mentioning the three in the same verse does not make them a triune God. In Matthew 17:1, Peter, James and John are mentioned in the same verse but that doesn’t make them a triune apostle. So the belief that God is triune didn’t happen until hundreds years after Christ died.

  • TheLastHonestLawyer

    It’s amusing how Christians will state that their God is all-powerful with one breath and then immediately limit him with the next.

    Why could God show up as an African woman? Or an Irish Setter if he wanted to? The Bible has him showing up as a burning bush, after all.

    Either God is unlimited in his powers and can manifest anyway he likes or it’s a myth straitjacketed by yr preconceptions. Go to a Coptic Church in Egypt and their images of Jesus look Egyptian. African churchs portray him as black, and I’ve personally seen what Japanese Jesus looks like.

    • Amos Moses

      “The Bible has him showing up as a burning bush, after all.”

      No, it does not …….. just more Hollywood garbage ….. actually it was Christ Moses saw there ……

      3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
      3:3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.

      • saganhill

        Jeeeze, using fiction to claim a god is real. The bible is nothing but a claim in its stories.

        • maam2u

          and you weren’t there, and can’t prove your denial. It’s merely your own stupidity and lack of experience telling you not to believe something, because it hasn’t happened in front of your face. That’s totally subjective, you are not basing your denial on fact AT ALL..

      • TheLastHonestLawyer

        Nowhere does any translation of Exodus identify the voice as that of Jesus. You are making things up. But it’s interesting that you stopped with Exodus 3:2, because the very next lines are:

        3:4
        And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.

        3:5
        And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.

        3:6
        Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

        Even Jesus admitted it was God hanging out in the flaming shrub (which would be an epic pub name) in Mark 12:26 “And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?”

        Please show me the Biblical reference for the voice being Christ. Identify which of the source documents for Exodus 3 you are using.

        • Amos Moses

          Jesus is God and declared it so when He said ….

          John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I Am.

    • Passion Rutledge Cheek

      Very well said. And it is equally amazing also how the idea that a God who is all-loving and universal somehow contradicts the Bible. Does it contradict the Bible or does it contradict some interpreted beliefs held by groups within an organized religion?

      • TheLastHonestLawyer

        Well, if you actually read the Bible you’ll see the God made it clear who he hates in general in Proverbs 6. Also, in Leviticus 20:23, we find this rage post from God:

        “And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.”

        Then there’s the fact that God hates one single guy, Esau. Hates him so much that it gets mentioned twice in the Bible. Of course, when you realized that Esau was the legendary father of the Eddomites, a rival nation that the Israelites battled, the story makes sense. Same way that the only legacy of Sodom, the two boys born out of drunken incest after the ctiy’s destruction, also just happened to be the founders of tribes that were enemies. It’s almost as if the authors of these stories were coming up with religious justification for hating them!

        • Passion Rutledge Cheek

          Yes but the bible is passed down interpretation of verbal histories. Verbal histories are themselves interpretations. Making it hard to know if God actually hated Esau. Or if he even said the things that are directly quoted to him. Or if he meant them the way man took them. The God in the old testament doesn’t even really resemble the God in the new testament. But then again, I assure you that if someone asked me to write down what happened in 1776 today, I would have an idea but could not do it justice.

          • TheLastHonestLawyer

            Yup. The Old Testament is badly-remember oral histories. political propaganda, and reinterpreted Babylonian myths.

          • Michael Todd

            The Bible is self-attesting and self-authenticating. It is self-attesting in that it claims no higher authority than itself since it (rightly) claims to be the word of God. And here’s the crux: it is not just any god but the true God which necessarily authenticates the Bible as His word. In other words the existence of the God of the Bible is necessary.
            If God is not all-good then morality is is subjective and merely at the discretion of whoever is in power. If God is not all-powerful then He would be subject to laws outside of Himself. Not only would morality be fluid but the laws of logic would be in a state of flux. (Related to that is if only the natural world existed then all of our thoughts, memories and actions would be deterministically produced by the properties inherent in matter and energy.) If God were capricious or changing then all of the above could apply.
            Thus you can see the foolishness of false belief systems such as materialism, evolution (gene expression being the driving force behind rapists and murderers as well as bakers and social workers), lesser gods, capricious gods, etc.
            If God did not preserve His word then we would have no basis to know that the outside world truly corresponded with our thoughts.

          • TheLastHonestLawyer

            OK, prove God exists. Have you ever read the Koran? I have. It says that it is God’s final word on things, and points to itself to confirm that. How about the Vedas? The Eddas? The Book of Mormon? Pretty much every holy text claims to be divinely inspired along with being self-attesting and self-authenticating.

            “If God did not preserve His word then we would have no basis to know
            that the outside world truly corresponded with our thoughts.”

            Bollocks. We have senses. We can see, hear, touch, taste, and smell the world. We can measure it. We can saw “That is a fire. Fire, I know from experience, will burn my hand if I stick in there.” Are you saying that you can’t think? If you and I were standing in front of a bonfire, would you stick your hand in?

          • Michael Todd

            The religions you have mentioned contain such things as a capricious deity, lesser gods, or illusions. That is why I said that the God of the Bible is necessary for logic and morality. As to the proof that God exists I quote Romans 1:18-20
            “The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.”
            Sensory perception cannot be the basis for knowledge since it requires such things as concepts and memory. For example, in a materialistic worldview thought is necessarily reduced to the movement of atoms and ions. There could be no higher “you” since you are but matter. In such a worldview it should not only be possible (theoretically) to use advanced physics to calculate the exact trajectory of ocean waves but also what a person is thinking or will think in the future (remember: atoms, ions, electricity, etc.).

          • TheLastHonestLawyer

            A capricious deity? You mean like one who sends bears to kill a load of children for being jerks? How about one who makes a bet with the embodiment of evil about torturing a devout follower? The Bible is filled with times God was cruel and capricious.

            Quoting the Bible to prove the Bible is circular reasoning.

            There is no “higher” me. I simply am. I suffered a stroke a few years back that affected my memory and personality. If there’s some sort of “higher me,” how could physical damage to my brain change my memories? How could alcohol change how people act?

            The problem with your last thought is that brains are far more complex than ocean patterns. Right now I’m replying to you, thinking about the RV show my wife and I are heading out to in a little bit, and trying to remember what drive-thrus are on Mission Blvd. But my patterns might change if a song shows up on the radio that triggers memories. Or a car might hit a power pole and knock out our power, which would change things. Or I might meet and old friend at the show, which would change the patters completely.

          • Michael Todd

            Capriciousness has nothing to do with God meeting out judgment against wickedness. Capriciousness would be an inconsistent change of behavior or thought.
            Is God cruel for bringing judgment? Who set the standards for right and wrong? Rebellion against God is cosmic treason and worthy of eternal death. Yet, He offers us a way to avoid that by putting faith in Jesus Christ.
            I have seen quite a few people affected by strokes and am sorry that it happened to you. But you cannot equate the brain and with the mind. The brain is the vehicle for the mind but the mind will continue after death and be reunited with the body (including the brain I would imagine) at the Resurrection.

          • TheLastHonestLawyer

            OK, what did Job do that was wicked? Here’s how the story starts:

            Job 1:6-12
            Now there was a day when the
            sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan
            came also among them.And the LORD said unto
            Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From
            going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.And the LORD said unto
            Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like
            him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and
            escheweth evil?Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all
            that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his
            substance is increased in the land. But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will
            curse thee to thy face.
            And the LORD said unto
            Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power;
            only upon himself put
            not forth thine hand. So
            Satan went forth from the
            presence of the LORD.

            God, on a whim, tortures Job. Because Satan told him to do it.

            This is your Bible, remember, your claimed God. Capricious doesn’t even begin to describe it.

            Show me any scientific evidence that the mind survives the death of the brain. And then explain why if the brain and mind are separate, physical changes to the brain can change people’s personalities, memories, and even their language skills.

          • tommyboy

            Please explain to me how a creature like a butterfly can survive mid-stage between caterpillar and butterfly under the laws of evolution. Evolution states that organisms go through mutations and changes, carrying on only that which is beneficial for survival. ALL processes had to be there from the beginning for a caterpillar to even survive into it’s next stage of life. Did you know that the body cells of the larva break down and migrate to different positions within the pupal envelope and there develop into entirely new organs, e.g. wings, antennae? How could it go from eating leaves and crawling in the grass to sucking nectar and fluttering in the air via evolutionary stages?? Such things as metamorphosis and symbiosis prove the existence of a Creator.

          • jnail7

            “Sensory perception cannot be the basis for knowledge since it requires such things as concepts and memory.”

            Please, do tell, what can be the basis for knowledge without sensory perception, concepts, or memory?

          • Michael Todd

            Hi Passion,
            Those are common and oft repeated misconceptions which surreptitiously start with an anti-supernatural bias. It assumes that the Almighty either cannot or would not preserve His word for the generations.
            Remember too that the Old Testament sometimes emphasizes the righteous God’s displeasure with sin but yet points to the future grace typified by the sacrificial system and realized in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. The New Testament emphasizes grace but not at the expense of God’s holy demands as it it clearly presents the options of having Jesus Christ pay for our sins or paying for them ourselves in hell for eternity. So the righteous God’s grace and wrath are both clearly presented in both Testaments.

  • larry

    Hollywood’s doesn’t have a War on God. Reality has a war on God. Grow up kids.

    • Amos Moses

      God created the reality you are now trashing ………… so back at ‘cha ………..

      • saganhill

        You have no proof of a god that created anything. Nada.

        • maam2u

          you’re the one who is devoid of proofs, who is ignorant and inexperienced in spiritual things, thus have no clue what youa re talking about. But only a true idiot would deny things they are not even familiar with nor aware of. Denying existence of something you cannot discern, but millions of others can, makes you spiritually retarded, blind and deaf, it doesn’t make us the deficient ones.

      • zenlike

        Zero evidence for this.

        • Amos Moses

          and zero for what you have said ……..

          • zenlike

            So there is evidence then? OK, show it.

          • Amos Moses

            if you open your eyes … it is all around you ….. including YOU …….. do not have to show what is obvious …………..

          • zenlike

            So you don’t have in fact any evidence. Got it.

          • Amos Moses

            everything you see is evidence ……. we both have the exact same evidence ….. you deny part of the evidence ………. Got it ……….

          • zenlike

            So much evidence, apparently, and yet you are not able to point to any single piece of it. Pathetic.

          • Amos Moses

            i point to you and i do it again now …. you are the evidence …. everything you eye sees is the evidence ……… what is so difficult to understand …………

          • zenlike

            Evidence. It doesn’t mean what you think it means.

            You do realise every single adherent of every single faith has just as much “evidence” for their religion being the correct one, right?

          • Amos Moses

            nope …….. evidence does not mean what you want it to mean ….. we both have the exact same evidence ………..

          • zenlike

            Yawn. I have millions of carefully researched papers, documenting physical evidence, for my worlview. What do you have? Non sequiturs and projection.

          • Amos Moses

            we all have the same evidence ……….. what we all do not have is the same worldview and your worldview alters your view of the evidence ….. it is not a matter of evidence …. it is the interpretation of the evidence …….. evidence is not an issue ….. it is worldview and its bias …… YAWN ………..

          • Adam Steed

            Your God is no more real than Zeus, Bastet, or Hera.

          • Amos Moses

            is that a scientific, theological or personal opinion ……………..

          • Adam Steed

            All 3. I spent 32 years of my life as a black man in the Christian Church, and 2 years as a Muslim 5%’ter. I am now an Atheist. I still to this day read many religious texts. Not just Christianity, but Pagan, and other religions. Just because you think YOU chose the right god means nothing. Others think they have also. Problem with religion, outside of being a mental disorder I suffered from for decades. Is that it’s VERY regional. You’re mostly like Christian or catholic, simply because of WHERE you were born, and how you were raised. IE brainwashed at an early age. Your god no more exists than any others.

          • Amos Moses

            ok … so you are not a used to was ….. you are a never were ….. so lets start with the scientific …… do you have perfect knowledge of every thing ….ever ….. complete perfect knowledge …………..

          • Adam Steed

            Just so you know, you’re not good at debating.
            You also gave poor grammatical talent. You’re not using the ellipse properly.

          • Amos Moses

            so ad hominem ….. anything productive to add or just that ………

          • parquet

            Your whole post is a very silly lie.

          • Adam Steed

            Sure it is. You also suck at debating, since you provide no evidence of well, anything. I still wish you a good day, simply because i’m a decent human being, and not an Internet troll.
            Good day sir/ma’am.

          • tommyboy

            Why do you still read religious texts then? Why bother? Unless you’re still searching but don’t want to admit it…
            Atheist now, huh? You went from one religion to another. You believe in evolution? Explain metamorphosis and how an organism can survive within the boundaries of evolution.

          • Adam Steed

            I don’t believe in Evolution. Because evolution exists. Modern Medicine is wholly based upon evolutionary paths.
            You don’t want an explanation. You want an argument. There’s this thing called the Google. Use it to find a website called Scientific American, read their articles on evolution. It’ll enlighten you.

            Humans grow, change, and adapt. I grew up away from Christianity, change to Islam, because humans change their minds and beliefs. The reason you’re probably a Christian is 99% being born some place where Christianity is predominant. Period. I adapted to a new way of thinking, that didn’t involve deities.

            Why do I still read religious texts? I read more than the bible. Did you know that there are over 5000+ deities currently being worshiped? What if YOU chose the wrong one? Lol.
            As far as reading goes. it’s easier to combat a Christians ignorance of their religion by using their holy book against them. Since most don’t actually read their bibles. Did you know most people think Lilith is from Supernatural the TV show? These same people call themselves Christian, yet don’t even know their own belief system.
            That’s why I read them still.

          • Shang Tsung

            Dude how many W’s are you going to take on this one thread??

          • Amos Moses

            many people interpret the evidence incorrectly ….. as you do now ………..

          • zenlike

            If the so-called “evidence” is up to so much interpretation that it can be interpreted to “prove” contradictory things, then it is not “evidence”.

            As stated before, you have no clue what “evidence” means.

          • Amos Moses

            nope …… the evidence is not changeable ….. the interpretation is open to the bias of the viewer and yours are in error ….

          • zenlike

            Then show me how my interpretation is “in error”. And how the interpretation of all the other religions are “in error”.

          • Amos Moses

            your interpretation excludes God …. so you are in error ………. God is part of the evidence and you ignore the evidence ………. so your conclusions and observations are in error ……..

          • zenlike

            And so the muslim says: “your interpretation excludes Allah…. so you are in error ………. Allah is part of the evidence and you ignore the evidence ………. so your conclusions and observations are in error ……..”

            And so the hindu says: “your interpretation excludes Vishnu…. so you are in error ………. Vishnu is part of the evidence and you ignore the evidence ………. so your conclusions and observations are in error ……..”

          • Amos Moses

            perhaps ……… but we are not talking about false gods …… and in any event ….. you exclude God and are in error ………

          • zenlike

            But as I asked before: how do you determine those are “false gods” and yours is right?

          • Amos Moses

            false gods have not proclaimed themselves as God ….. false gods know they are not God …. the God of Christianity and Israel makes unique declarations that other gods know they cannot make and have never made …… not one of them has ever died for anyone …..

          • zenlike

            Where has your god done this, and how do you know those other gods haven’t done that?

          • Amos Moses

            because none of them have said so …..

          • zenlike

            Citation needed that they didn’t say it and your god did.

          • Amos Moses

            no ……… cite one other than Christ who has ………

          • zenlike

            Christ has? Evidence please.

          • Amos Moses

            you do not accept scripture ….. so why ………..

          • zenlike

            Ah, so circular reasoning it is then.

          • Amos Moses

            i have given you no scripture as you do not accept scripture ……..

          • zenlike

            I do not accept circular reasoning. As should everyone who has even a little bit of knowledge about logic.

          • Amos Moses

            i have given you no circular reasoning …… you are just making up reasons to not answer questions …… miss galore ……….

          • zenlike

            I don’t expect you to see the circular reasoning in using the book of a religion to prove that the religion is correct.

          • Amos Moses

            you have no evidence it does not …………. you are just here bloviating because you cannot prove your point ……..

          • zenlike

            And you cannot prove yours, as we have already well established.

          • Amos Moses

            i am not here to prove anything …… you are here to …. what was that again ……… well whatever it is …. you came here seeking us ….. we did not come looking for you to prove anything ….. and BTW ….. it is up to Christ to prove it to you ….. not me or any christian …..

          • zenlike

            Then he is not doing a stellar job. What a surprise.

          • Amos Moses

            He is not your bell hop ….. He is not yours to command ….. and it will be His choosing as to if and when it shall come to you ………

          • zenlike

            So he isn’t interested in saving everyone?

          • Amos Moses

            never was …………never said He was ……….. anywhere in scripture ……….

          • zenlike

            Doesn’t really sound like a good person to me.

          • Amos Moses

            ok …… so if a person you know comes over to your house and spits in your face …… and you invite him to dinner ….. and he continues to spit in your face …… and the face of your family ….. and your children …… you want to be nice to that person …… is that what you do ……….. really ……

          • zenlike

            I am spiting in someones face? Your delusions are growing by the minute.

          • Amos Moses

            i asked a question and you have no answer ……….. again ……… you said “Doesn’t really sound like a good person to me” …… so if a person you know comes over to your house and spits in your face …… and you invite him to dinner ….. and he continues to spit in your face …… and the face of your family ….. and your children …… you want to be nice to that person …… is that what you do ……….. really ……

          • zenlike

            Ehm no, I don’t do that. And I already see where you are going with this, and no, I am not “spitting in jesus face”. Since I cannot do that to an imaginary person.

          • Amos Moses

            More crickets ….. got no answers …. just ad hominem and epithet ….

          • zenlike

            You don’t know what ad hominem means do you?

          • Amos Moses

            so still no answers …. just more epithet and ad hominem ……

          • zenlike

            So that is a firm no.

          • Amos Moses

            yes … it is a firm no that you have no answers ………..

          • zenlike

            The question was “You don’t know what ad hominem means do you? ”

            Do try to keep up.

          • Amos Moses

            nope ….. the question you cannot answer is ….. so if a person you know comes over to your house and spits in your face …… and you invite him to dinner ….. and he continues to spit in your face …… and the face of your family ….. and your children …… you want to be nice to that person …… is that what you do ……….. really ……

        • Matthew Roy

          Every early population on Earth truly believed that they were visited by a God. That they were too primitive to understand the interaction and therefore have consistent stories does not mean that there is zero evidence. Inconsistent eyewitness testimony is used to prove the truth in court, it doesn’t stop being evidence just because it’s old.

          On the other hand you’re trying to use the lack of consistent evidence to prove the equally irrational view that there is no creator. What makes a universe without a first cause more likely than one with a first cause? The other side at least has poor eyewitness testimony, you don’t even have that much.

          None of this makes either side right, nor any of the different flavors of creationism more likely than any other, but a claim of zero evidence is idiocy.

          • zenlike

            Except that there really is “zero evidence” fpr the claim made to which a replied. So no, not idiocy at all.

          • Matthew Roy

            The claim was that God created your reality. The evidence for that claim is the testimony of individuals who claimed to interact with God. You are free to argue that this constitutes poor evidence, I’ll likely agree with you. That does not mean that no evidence exists. Since I was already fairly clear on this point, you either lack the capacity to distinguish the nuances involved in that analysis or you have nothing better to do than troll a two month old thread, even though you are aware you are choosing to appear to be an idiot, in either case the act is idiotic.

          • zenlike

            Wait. You were the one trolling a two month old thread and answering a two month comment of mine. OK, I am done.

          • Matthew Roy

            To troll: to antagonize (others) online by deliberately posting inflammatory, irrelevant, or offensive comments or other disruptive content.

            In this context you could have been trolling by knowingly making the inaccurate claim of zero evidence on a site where it was likely to create an emotional response that did not resort to reason. Thus it would have met the definition of trolling.

            Correcting the record is not irrelevant, it could be considered offensive if I had not chosen to stick to the facts, but trolling trolls is both fun and may actually get you to think before you make an idiotic statement. In context it is at least morally neutral, if it isn’t positive, whereas trolling those trying to have a decent conversation is definitely morally negative.

            If on the other hand you truly lack the mental ability to understand that you are incorrect, then you have a point that calling your post idiotic was needlessly offensive. But I would recommend that you avoid further online arguments, as they will be likely to go as badly for you, if not worse.

          • zenlike

            So you retract your claim I was trolling a two month old post then?

          • Matthew Roy

            Oh sure.

    • tommyboy

      And you are here trashing what you don’t believe in because…?
      Slow day at work, eh?

  • Mark0H

    It’s amazing that Christians would waste their time on fiction like this when they would derive more benefit from reading the Bible. Granted, some parts of the Bible are hard to understand, but the four Gospels are not hard at all. Why do people get all caught up in trash like The Shack or those silly Left Behind novels? Christians appear to be just as trendy and shallow as unbelievers.

    I give the author of this junk novel credit: he knows that anything to do with race will get Americans’ attention, so make God a black woman, then stand back and watch the money role in. He should find the Last Judgment to be highly educational.

    • I do agree that this author did have monitory gain in mind. And yes, we understand that reading the Bible does nothing for racist tendencies. My question is if Morgan Freeman, a Black man, could play God in a series of movies and race not be an issue, then why does a Black woman stoke racial disharmony in those who are racist? Race is my discourse of study and your comment intrigued me.

      • libertynottyranny

        “And yes, we understand that reading the Bible does nothing for racist tendencies…”

        Ah, isn’t ignorance wonderful? It gives you the latitude to make ridiculous statements, as though you were oh so “smart”. It’s all “bliss” until the moment you are faced w/ Truth & your foolish error. Implying you understand the Bible (which, to make such statements, you clearly do not) & swiping at the character of the Word of God as you pass by is the height of hypocrisy.

        Studying a “field” that will perpetuate divisions, what an awesome contribution! Why don’t you instead study something truly useful to humanity, like medicine? But I get it, studying “race” allows you to practice your own racist & bigoted notions w/o being held accountable b/c you can put a stamp of “education” on your statements of nonsense.

        • Thomas_Adam_Lewis

          Oh the irony. The comment laments the ignorance of the post above while not even comprehending what was being said: “Studying a “field” [race] that will perpetuate divisions, what an awesome contribution!”

          Yeah, just like criminology perpetuates crime and studying pathology perpetuates disease. *headdesk*

          • libertynottyranny

            So sorry Thomas Adam Lewis – I’m not smart like you. I guess I misread the post by Habari Gani America. Must be a 3 names thing (or my lack thereof). I would have sworn “ze” (I think that’s the correct pronoun these days, but if not I’ve got TAL to enlighten me) was stating

            “And yes, we understand that reading the Bible does nothing for racist tendencies”

            which I took to mean that either reading the Word of God does nothing to stem “racism”, or, worse, actually promotes such tendencies. (However it is a very heady statement HBA made – the likes of which has rarely been seen in English prose – & only an intellect as well developed as yours is truly capable of parsing it). & note the use of that all important “we” – the coup de grass to end all debate…”And yes, WE know”… such art! Who can argue? It’s right up there w/ “all the experts…” or “the debate/science is settled…”

            Now you (is that the proper address? – I think it’s gender ambiguous isn’t it?) proceed to equate “racial studies” to criminology & pathology. So, you’re saying that “racial studies” is the study of the cause, correction/prevention, & “cure” of “racism”? (I’m slow on the take, so work w/ me).

            So wow, like a criminologist, the raceolgist goes into enforcement? I think I get it! The raceoligist (call it “racial enforcement officer”) will determine when someone is being “racist” (maybe it’s a thought, or a spoken word, or incorrect use of a pronoun, or even a post like Mark0H’s above), treat them w/ “correction detention”, then, ultimately, “cure” them (which, like many “diseases”, the treatment could result in the death of the patient if they “don’t see the light”, but hey, “we tried”). Well color me (in a non-racist way :-)) corrected! Thanks TAL! I didn’t t realize what an altruistic endeavor “racist studies” is. Heinrich Himmler would be immensely proud & envious at the same time!

            A few questions for you smart guy (whoops, sorry, I didn’t mean to inject gender – could you help me out w/ the gender neutral pronoun to use there?):

            1. what is a race? Define it (Is it skin color? Is it DNA? Is it blood type? Something else? What?)
            2. What is “racism”?
            3. if you can define what a “race” is, are you a “racist”?
            4. If it’s no different than a disease, how come we haven’t figured it out yet? By your reckoning, we should have had millions if not billions of years to figure it out by now.
            5. if it is just like a disease, why are we punishing those “afflicted” (loss of job, ostracized, publicly humiliated, etc) rather than coddling them & giving them therapy & a pill or sending them to meetings?
            6. Or are you saying it’s a crime & those that hide hate in their heart for people not like themselves need to be punished?
            7. do you hold the same standard for those that hate others, not b/c of skin color, but because they are not of the same mind as themselves?

          • Thomas_Adam_Lewis

            Your sarcastic pretentiousness failed as an attempt to mitigate the damage your previous post did to your credibility. Further, it is premised on deriding “political correctness” but like nearly all who use this term or employ the idea, you fail to recognize that “political correctness” is relative to whatever “group” one belongs to. It is “politically correct” among “Christians” or “conservatives” to deride what they consider to be “liberal.” So what you have done is not advance any meaningful argument; you’ve simply flown a flag of your identity.

            As such, you’ve more than likely merely posed your questions as rhetorical, not seeking actual answers. However, I will answer in the case that you are actually sincere.

            1. Race has no scientific meaning. There is more genetic variation within a “race” than there is between “races.” It is a human perceptual category.

            2. Racism is the stereotyping of individuals based on what one considers to be the universal characteristics of the racial category. Furthermore it is often hand in hand with strengthening the identity of the “in-group” versus the “out-group.”

            3. “if you can define what a “race” is, are you a “racist?”” Such a silly question–one that makes me think this was an exercise in rhetoric rather than inquiry. If one can define crime, does that make one a criminal?

            4. “If it’s no different than a disease, how come we haven’t made any advancement on it yet? By your reckoning, we should have had millions if not billions of years to figure something out by now.

            Firstly, I don’y have any idea what the reference to millions or billions of years is. The only thing I can figure is that you are a young earth creationist and think the earth was created a couple thousand years after the Sumerians invented beer and hence sloppily reason that if 6,000 year timeline is not followed, the converse is millions (or billions) of years of human history? Otherwise I can’t make heads or tails of that comment. Racism is not a “disease” but it is a negative aspect of human psychology like stupidity and ignorance. If one agrees that racism is bad just like ignorance and stupidity, then steps taken to lessen these in human populations as a whole are also a good thing.

            5. “if it is just like a disease, why are we punishing those “afflicted” (loss of job, ostracized, publicly humiliated, etc) rather than coddling them & giving them therapy & a pill or sending them to meetings?”

            It is only very loosely analogical to “disease” only in the sense that ignorance and stupidity could also be considered diseases. And just like where the actions of ignorance and stupidity are punished such as negligence, the actions brought about by racism are punished such as with employment discrimination. The state of being stupid, ignorant, or racist is not illegal but acting on those in certain ways and in certain contexts will get you punished.

            6. “Or are you saying it’s a crime & those that hide hate in their heart for people not like themselves need to be punished?”

            No one is proposing “thought crimes.” Your attempt ar reductio ad absurdum is silly. We already have anti-discrimination laws. The Supreme Court already views any government action that considers race as a factor with “strict scrutiny.” The only modern-era case that has survived the “strict scrutiny” test is Korematsu v. United States where the Court upheld the orders to place Japanese Americans in interment camps during WW2 and is widely regarded now as wrongly decided.

            7. “do you hold the same standard for those that hate others, not b/c of skin color, but because they are not of the same mindset as themselves?”

            The same psychological factors that lead to racism can operate on other factors such as political or religious beliefs. As such, if “hate” is practiced under these auspices and produce the same effects as comparable to racism then yes, it should be subject to the same type of standards. However, I strongly suspect that you asked this question in an effort to try to equate disagreement or criticism with “hate.” Like Ken Ham who cries all the time that his ideas are “discriminated” against by those “intolerant” scientists. But right there is the crucial distinction–ideas are not people and not afforded any special protection. Under Ham’s definition of “intolerance” that fails to distinguish between people and ideas, teachers who mark answers wrong on tests are “intolerant.”

    • Rob Cahill

      Yeah it’s not like there isn’t enough fiction in the bible already.. No need for more.

      • libertynottyranny

        Well, at least you don’t pretend to be giving some sort of “educated” answer.

    • TheKingOfRhye

      Why can’t a Christian just “waste their time on fiction like this” while taking it as just that – fiction? One doesn’t have to believe that fiction is true to enjoy it. I’m an atheist, and generally a skeptic besides, but I can still enjoy fiction full of gods, monsters, alien abductions, mythical creatures, and all that sort of thing.

  • jscotttheory

    I know of several first hand examples of people saved from addiction through 12 step programs, and although not sanctioned by the programs, this book was one of the keys to opening the door to a relationship with God and subsequently living by the principles of Jesus.

    • Amos Moses

      and what “principles” would those be ………….

      • jscotttheory

        Check your Users Guide AKA Bible

        • saganhill

          I don’t believe a magic book is considered a “guide”.

          • jscotttheory

            Nothing magic about the Bible, but it is a relevant guide for living. Are you trying to be provacative or just ignorant? Your atheism is not impressive, only intellectually lazy.

          • Oboehner

            Trollin’ trollin’ trollin’…

        • Amos Moses

          no ….. i know what they are …. i want to know what YOU think they are ….. or do you not know …. you brought it up …………

          • jscotttheory

            Why would you care what I think they are, did someone appoint you my overseer? In fact I would be absolutely fine if I never interacted with you again.

    • TheBottomline4This

      lol

      • jscotttheory

        After more than 20 years of alcohol and drug abuse, then finding a way, albeit unconventional, to discover God then develop a relationship with God and Jesus Christ, we are laughing out loud. File this one under God can work in strange ways. However, I do get the impression you’re just trying to be a smart ass.

        • TheBottomline4This

          I’m only lol-ing about The Shack portion of your comment smartass.

    • Oboehner

      Which god?

      • jscotttheory

        Are you a polytheist? In my world there is only one true God, spoken of in His book the Bible.

        • Oboehner

          Right, there is only one true God.

          • jscotttheory

            However, I’m pretty sure my perception of God is quite different from yours.

          • TheBottomline4This

            What is your perception of God? Do tell.

          • jscotttheory

            Pretty sure you wouldn’t understand, nor am I interested in discussing it with you.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Don’t explain it. You probably know it’s ridiculous to begin with.

          • NCOriolesFan

            Therein is the problem with Christianity. Every Christian thinks they are right.

          • Oboehner

            Biblical God, you?

  • Jimcima

    Wait, evangelical Christians are racist a$$holes? LOL, who knew?

    It may surprise you to learn that “fat black women” can be Christians too.

    Unbelievable.

    • Amos Moses

      Sure they can …. but they are not God nor is God a fat black woman …………

  • saganhill

    This movie is fiction, just like the bible. Talk about shallow. Religious nuts need to come to reality.

    • Jason Todd

      I’ll be laughing hysterically when you stand before the God you don’t believe in, begging for mercy after mocking Him all this time.

  • tatoo

    Why do Christians bitch and moan about everything? Must be built into their DNA. Leave people alone.

    • Patriot

      Just like you.

    • TheBottomline4This

      You come here to bitch and moan about us bitching and moaning. LOL

    • Amos Moses

      take your own advice ……….

    • NCOriolesFan

      I usually moan in the bathroom.

  • Ta-er al-Asfer

    Some good old fachioned racism to end the year on. Lovely.

    • NCOriolesFan

      So critiquing is racism like disagreeing has become hatred. Lovely.

      • jscotttheory

        How is the race or the girth of the actor relevant to the critique? As in “fat black woman”.

        • NCOriolesFan

          Actually no one knows the skin color of Jesus. That has been made up via Hollywood and white perception like the black perception of a black Jesus.

        • NCOriolesFan

          Ok Christian News, if you don’t want links posted, say so and don’t censor a comment relevant to the discussion.

          jscotttheory – actually no one knows the skin color of Jesus. It has been made up by white Hollywood. African-Americans portray him as black too. However, since Jesus was born in the Middle East – Bethlehem, it is assumed he may look Middle Eastern.

          Anyhow, do a search on skin color of Jesus. Since this website doesn’t like posted links do a search of Jesus’ skin color. They’ll be lots of links on the topic.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Well, to be fair I think the commenting guidelines say no links. A lot of sites don’t want them.

          • NCOriolesFan

            I didn’t see any guidelines from CN on the subject. But some websites associated with Disqus allow posting of links.

          • Amos Moses

            you have to be a bit more clever here ………. try a ; to replace the .

          • NCOriolesFan

            Ok, thanks.
            There is a way to get around the rule on one Disqus website.

          • jscotttheory

            Agreed, the writer of this original article criticizing the actor in the film, described the actor playing God as a “fat black woman”, my question is how is that relevant to critiquing the film. To your point, if Jesus were on a flight today, he’d probably get bumped for looking like a “terrorist”. If Jesus is the son of God, does the color of his skin really matter?

          • NCOriolesFan

            I guess that’s the way Hollywood portrays the actress so I assume the author is just copying the character.

      • Ta-er al-Asfer

        Nobody cares about your opinion.

        • Amos Moses

          Nobody cares about your opinion.

          • Ta-er al-Asfer

            Thanks, babe.

          • Amos Moses

            back at cha ………..

        • NCOriolesFan

          Ok, thank you for your reply.

    • johndoe

      Hillary lost the election.
      Sorry you are too immature to accept it, but that’s life.

      • Ta-er al-Asfer

        If you think that progressives are going to disappear because of an election, you’re too stupid to accept it.

        That’s life.

  • NCOriolesFan

    I haven’t bought it nor even knew about it till now.

  • Nyah Janae Granger

    You people are hilarious! You’re all up in arms over a movie, but you have dedicated your lives to that same fiction. God is the universe, that is were we came from. Jesus is pure fiction, made up by the Catholic Church. The same church that sanctioned slavery, and his the molestations of several kids! If there was a GOD as you proclaim, he should be mighty pissed off with the behavior of Christians, but then again, the bible is full of contradiction.

    • Amos Moses

      “God is the universe, “”Jesus is pure fiction,””The same church that sanctioned slavery, “”the bible is full of contradiction.”

      Nope …….. fail ………… actually …. EPIC Fail …………

      • zenlike

        Even the bible sanctioned slavery.

        • Amos Moses

          no … it did not …….. there is not one record of the Hebrews or Jews taking slaves …… and to be caught with a man for the purpose of turning him into a slave was death …… men sold themselves into slavery to pay their debts ….. his sale price was paid to his debtors not to the seller ….. and he was freed by law after a certain period of time …… there was no penalty for escape and there were sanctuary cities that former slaves could not be captured from and returned to their owners ……..

          • zenlike

            Actual morally good people would condemn the ownerships of other humans (= slavery) as always wrong.

          • Amos Moses

            do you condemn the exact same system used today ……… i bet not …. and as i said ….. there is not one record of the Hebrews or Jews taking slaves ….

            In Exodus 21:16, it is against the law to kidnap a man and making him a slave or to even be found with him is punishable by death.
            21:16 And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.

            and BTW …. where does your “morality” come from ………….

          • zenlike

            Yes. You lose that bet.

            Also: “In contrast to the Covenant Code and Deuteronomy, which contain no explicit description of manumission for slaves of non-Israelite origin,
            the Holiness Code states that non-Israelite slaves shall serve forever.
            Even the master’s death did not free such slaves – they were to be
            treated as inheritable property.”

            What an immoral book and religion you have there.

          • Amos Moses

            so modern slavery known as “welfare” …. you oppose it …. good to know ……..

          • zenlike

            Welfare = ownership of people? No? Then it is not slavery. Get an education, idiot.

          • Amos Moses

            Levitical slavery was the welfare of its day …………..

          • zenlike

            levitical slavery = ownership of people
            wellfare = no ownership of peole

            seriously, even someone as dumb as you should be able to spot the difference

          • Amos Moses

            nope ….. error ………. ownership of people was taking responsibility for their welfare as there was no government that would do that ….. and that is what the welfare state does today ….. numerous families stay on welfare for generations …. how is it different ……..

          • zenlike

            Well, you think ownership of people is not bad. I think it is. Guess who the moral person here is?

          • Amos Moses

            i think people should not be on welfare but certain persons need to be cared for ….. and it is kindness to take care of them and at the sametime demand they work for their keep ….. how is that wrong ………

          • zenlike

            Is it also “kindless” if they stay the property for life of someone else? Your moral views are abhorrent.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Interesting. You don’t support Abortions do you Zen?

          • zenlike

            I do support it, because i believe the every person should own their body. No one else has any say.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Except the baby.
            Your morals are deplorable.

          • zenlike

            A fetus is not a baby. You obviously belief a woman doesn’t own her own body. You are the deplorable here.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Your morals are deplorable.

          • zenlike

            Right back at you, slaver.

          • Amos Moses

            Levitical Law And slavery

            Anyone who used the bible to justify slavery in America only showed their ignorance of the bible and levitical slavery.

            Slaves had protections. Biblical slavery is not the same as modern slavery. Exodus 21 spells out how a slave must be kept and cared for during his servitude.

            If a person was sold into slavery, the money went to THE SLAVE to settle the slaves debts.

            Slaves were not allowed to work on the sabbath.

            Slaves were to be released every six years. At the end of six years, the master was required to give the slave enough funds to establish a new life.

            If after six years they wanted to stay they had to be released every 50 years during the jubilee.

            If the slave wanted to stay they were required to appear before he a priest and declare they wanted to remain a slave and have a nail driven through their ear. There was no compulsion. They had to publicly declare it.

            Slavery was an option for those in debt or in poverty.

            If the slave ran away it was against the law to return a slave to the master. There were sanctuary cities established.

          • zenlike

            “Slaves had protections”. They were still slaves. Woops, your “good book” loses. I’ll stick with my better morals, thank you very much.

          • Amos Moses

            they were welfare recipients ………..

          • zenlike

            They were owner by others, for life. Abhorrent immoral behaviour.

          • Amos Moses

            according to who and on what basis ….. who says ….

          • Amos Moses

            more crickets ………………..

          • zenlike

            Every actual moral people would say this. You are apparently not one of them.

          • Amos Moses

            and that does not answer the question ….. or can you not answer the question ……

          • TheBottomline4This

            Looks like a moderator has removed your reply I was going to comment to, so I’ll put it here.
            My comments weren’t addressing slaves. You claim each person has a right to their own body, but yet the baby has no say in the killing of their life, their body. What a hypocritical brainwashed twit you are.
            Just an fyi for ya Zenny..be careful in your further comments on here, you’re coming closer to being blocked.

          • Amos Moses

            Crickets …………….

          • zenlike

            Crickets indeed. Your moraliy where it is justified to own another human being is horrendous.

          • Amos Moses

            and you are morally superior based on what exactly ……..

          • zenlike

            Based on the fact that owning people is morally abhorrent behaviour.

          • Amos Moses

            and if it comes down to your survival over the other person ….. is it ever ok for you to dominate them through slavery to support you … assuming you are capable of doing so …. why or why not …. and if everyone else says it is ok …. why or why not ………..

          • zenlike

            Well, we already know that you are ok with it.

          • Amos Moses

            no … we do not … you assume ….. and i was asking you … and still just crickets for an answer ……. your “morals” are at issue ….

          • zenlike

            If you are not ok with that, why the apologetics? Do try to keep up.

          • Amos Moses

            i make no apologies ….. which is not the same as apologetics ……. the bible is full of examples of what NOT to do …… why is that so difficult to understand …….

          • zenlike

            The bible (and you) make it clear owning somebody for the rest of their life isn’t bad. YOu just need to follow some rules when doing so. Case closed.

          • Amos Moses

            they sold themselves into servitude …… to pay their debts …… own a credit card ….. did the samething and millions do it everyday …… and not peep one from you ………. debt is slavery ……

          • zenlike

            Your apologetics for lifelong slavery is disgusting me. Bye now.

          • Amos Moses

            there was no life long slavery unless they appeared in public …. before a priest … and declared they chose to do so ….. so you cant win or answer the questions put to you …. so you run away …….. boohoo ….. see ya ….. dont let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya …………

          • zenlike

            Or unless the slaves were non-israelite. Do you even know your own holy book?

          • Amos Moses

            nope …………. those in that condition had had their family members killed in war …….. and you do not know what you are talking about ….. it would be far more cruel to leave them not slaves and on their own in the desert ……. i guess that is your solution ……….

          • zenlike

            Nope? Weird. It is actually in your “moral”‘ bible.

            Is it still moral to enslave for life non-israelites?

          • Amos Moses

            there are many example in the bible ….. some of them are examples of what to do …… some are examples of what not to do … and your opposition to it is antisemtism ……… where does that put your morals ……….

          • zenlike

            So, is lifelong slavery for non-israelites still moral?

          • Amos Moses

            we are all in lifelong slavery …… what is your point ….. if you have debt you are a slave ….. the debtor is the slave of the creditor ……….. whom do you owe …… and whom owns you ….. just because you are not in chains does not mean you are not a slave ….

          • Amos Moses

            and again ….. you have no problem with slavery today ….. debt is slavery ….. every person black, white or any other color who has debt is a slave ….. including you …… not one peep ….. so i am at a loss as to your issue ……..

          • zenlike

            Your issue seems to be that you have no concept of what slavery or debt is.

          • Amos Moses

            more than you i suspect …………

          • zenlike

            Your next comment proves the opposite.

          • Amos Moses

            because you say so …….. nope ……….

          • zenlike

            MAybe ask someone to define debt and slavery to you. Preferably someone sane.

          • Amos Moses

            so that would leave you off the list ………….

          • zenlike

            Start with a dictionary.

          • Amos Moses

            debt is slavery …….. the dictionary does not provide that ….. experience and the truth does ………….

            Debt bondage, also known as debt slavery or bonded labor, is a person’s pledge of labor or services as security for the repayment for a debt or other obligation. The services required to repay the debt may be undefined, and the services’ duration may be undefined. Debt bondage can be passed on from generation to generation ……

            … if you own a debt you are a slave ………… have a mortgage ….. you are a slave to the creditor ….. BTW ….. the root of the word mortgage is the same word as morgue …… a mortgage is a death pact ………….

            The word “mortgage” comes from the French “mort-gage”, literally death-pledge. The French peasants were working until they died for the privilege of owning a house. Same Game! Same People! Different Time! WTH!!!
            Historically, when the oldest son of a nobleman needed large sums of money which his father refused to give him, he often turned to borrowing.
            In arranging the loan, he would gage or “pledge” to repay the debt when his father died (at which time the son expected to receive his inheritance).

          • zenlike

            Yep, having to pay a part of your wage to someone each month for a limited time, or having your entire life controlled by another human being, including every single aspect of it, until the day you die, are exactly the same things.

            You know, if you are a deluded idiot.

          • Amos Moses

            So miss galore …… it is still slavery ……. and if you do not pay it …… you can lose the bit financed and more …… and that does affect every aspect of your life …… until you die ….. but that is not the only thing we are slaves to ….. until we die …. and it is delusion to not recognize it ….. it is a lie we have been told by the powers of this world …… that it is not slavery ….. and yet it is ………. and as i said ….. just because you are not in chains …. and whipped …. and abused physically …… does not mean you are not a slave …..

            “None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. ”
            ~ Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

          • zenlike

            So, if you had the choice between paying a debt, or lifelong slavery, which one would you choose?

          • Amos Moses

            debt is a lifelong condition …….. and it is slavery ………… and so it is lifelong slavery …… and there is only one way out of the debt ………… but you reject that truth …………….

          • zenlike

            “debt is a lifelong condition”

            My current debt is paid of in 15 years time. Hardly lifelong.

          • Amos Moses

            ok … so you are not a used to was ….. you are a never were ….. so lets start with the scientific …… do you have perfect knowledge of every thing ….ever ….. complete perfect knowledge …………..

          • zenlike

            Weird. Your comment has nothing to do with my rebuttal of your lie. Keep dodging.

          • Amos Moses

            no …. this is the question you have refused to answer and you are the one dancing away from it ……….. so again ……… do you have perfect knowledge of everything ……….. ever …..

          • zenlike

            Nobody has “perfect knowledge”. It is a nonsensical concept.

          • Amos Moses

            good ….. then we agree …… so the only scientific way for you to prove your declaration that god does not exist is to possess that perfect knowledge ….. and you admit you do not …… so you do not know it ….. it is not a fact ….. you have no evidence …… and absence of evidence is not evidence of absence ….. you have no scientific proof of it …… or do you have a “peer reviewed rigorously researched and published paper” that proves it …..

          • zenlike

            Same can be applied to allah, vishnu, the tooth fairy, leprechauns, fairies, unicorns?… yawn.

          • Amos Moses

            again …. absence of evidence is not evidence of absence ……. only evidence you have not looked in the right place …….

          • zenlike

            Of which you got none.

            I think I am done, since you still provided not one single bit of evidence.

          • Amos Moses

            you are the one looking to prove something ……. it is not up to me to prove anything to you …….

          • zenlike

            And a total copout is is then.

          • Amos Moses

            you reject the truth …… what am i to tell you ….. you do not want the truth ….. you want your belly ………….

          • zenlike

            I reject evidenceless bullshit.

          • Amos Moses

            so you reject the idea that God does not exist as there is no evidence of that …….

          • zenlike

            so you reject the idea that allah does not exist as there is no evidence of that …….so you reject the idea that the tooth fairy does not exist as there is no evidence of that …….so you reject the idea that leprechauns do not exist as there is no evidence of that …….

          • Amos Moses

            i know there is an entity calling himself allah …….. so what ……….

          • Amos Moses

            again ….. not up to me to provide you with any proof of anything …… just scripture …. which you reject anyway ………. miss galore ……..

          • zenlike

            Scripture is not proof, just like the qur’an is not proof of allah, and the spiderman comics are not proof for spiderman.

          • Amos Moses

            scripture is not proof to you ……… so i do not give it to you ….. you reject truth ….. so if you did not want the truth ….. then why are you here ….. do you really think you can move anyone away from the truth they already possess …… or is it you just want to call names …. miss galore ………

          • zenlike

            You might want to look up “truth”in the dictionary.

          • Amos Moses

            you reject the truth ………….

          • zenlike

            Again, I reject your baseless assertions which you provide with zero evidence. Bye now, this is entirely pointless. And that is the truth.

          • Kyler Phoenix

            No, myth isn’t proof of itself.

          • Amos Moses

            again, that it is a myth, is that a scientific, theological or personal opinion …………

          • Kyler Phoenix

            It is a fact. Do you know what myth is? Did you finish high school?

          • Amos Moses

            Fact based on what …. exactly …..

          • Kyler Phoenix

            Based on reality. What are you confused by?

          • Amos Moses

            so reality establishes a fact …… and the fact establishes your reality …… sounds familiar …….

          • Kyler Phoenix

            It sounds like more drivel from you.

          • Amos Moses

            just regurgitating yours ……..

          • Amos Moses

            Just more crickets again ……….

          • Kyler Phoenix

            Why reply with drivel?

          • Amos Moses

            but you did and then you ran away ….. but now you are back and responding …… so contradiction seems to be your forte …. and no real answers …..

          • Kyler Phoenix

            I ran away. You suffer from a lack of education and delusions of grandeur. Contradiction? Do tell….

          • Amos Moses

            i am not going to talk to you and i am talking to you to tell you i am to not going to talk to you to tell you i am not going to talk to you ….. etc …… and i am delusional ……. kind of like that little circle that appears when my computer cant compute ……..

          • Kyler Phoenix

            More proof of your lack of education and instability.

          • Amos Moses

            that would be you here on a christian forum as if you had anything of substance to say about matters christian ………

          • Kyler Phoenix

            I know more about it than you.

          • Amos Moses

            you still have not told us where your “morals” come from and who says they are “moral” …..

          • zenlike

            Morals come from people, from evidence, from reasoning, from empathy for your fellow man. All things you clearly lack.

          • Amos Moses

            ok …. so if the “people” “reason” that it is ok to kill people on the street for food because of a food shortage ….. what does that do to your “morals” ……… and all you have to do is look at Valenzuela to understand that this is not out of the realm of “reason” ………… where are your “morals” then …………. when your belly is empty and your children have not eaten for three days …………

          • zenlike

            OK, so you don’t know what morals are.

          • Amos Moses

            i have asked for the source of your morals ….. and you said everyone else determines your morals ….. so i asked ….. if everyone else says killing for food and survival is determined by everyone else as both hunky and dorey ….. where are you morals then ……

            and you have no answer ….. question is to you ….. and the question is not if i understand morals ….. but what your understanding of your morals is ……. so ……………

          • zenlike

            Thanks for misrepresenting what I said. It clearly shows YOUR moral character.

          • Amos Moses

            and again crickets …….. you said …….. “Morals come from people, from evidence, from reasoning, from empathy for your fellow man.” ….. and i asked ….. “so if the “people” “reason” that it is ok to kill people on the street for food because of a food shortage ….. what does that do to your “morals”” …………. and you have no answer …… again ….. if everyone else says killing for food and survival is determined by everyone else as both hunky and dorey ….. where are you morals then ……

          • zenlike

            You have obviously no idea what ethics and morals are.

          • Amos Moses

            ethics and morals are two completely different things ….. and if you do not understand that ….. then it is you who have an issue ….. not christians …… a thing can be ethical ….. and completely immoral ………… one has little to do with the other …. and AGAIN …. no answer to the question ……. you do a wonderful two step ….. keep dancing …… crickets …..

          • zenlike

            OK, so you do not know what those things are.

  • Acadia

    I’ve been looking for a photo of God, if anyone has one, by all means please can you share?

    And I have to ask , God isn’t universal?

    • TheBottomline4This

      I’ve been looking for a photo of air, if anyone has one, by all means please can you share?

      • jscotttheory

        It’s that blue stuff over your head.

        • TheBottomline4This

          It’s right in front of your face, but you can’t see it, but it’s still there, whether you believe it is or not
          According to a Science page…”Actually the atmosphere, which we call the air, has no color.”

          • Trilemma

            When I was a kid growing up in Los Angeles, the color of the air was brown.

          • TheBottomline4This

            lol

      • NCOriolesFan

        I’ve seen trucks with air tanks on them, will that help.

        • TheBottomline4This

          The tank is not a picture of the air. Look in front of you, that’s air. Share a picture of it.

          • NCOriolesFan

            I was being facetious. Look up John 3.8 instead.

      • Acadia

        That’s pretty simple actually to produce. Here you go.

        http://images.wisegeek.Com/can-of-hairspray-against-black.jpg

        My reference rather was to the alarm a black female portraying god raised in some. I didn’t know we had a photo of God.

        • NCOriolesFan

          Hmm, you got the link included. Ah I see what you did.

          Canned air, gotcha.

    • jscotttheory

      Some folks insist on anthropomorphizing their deities. As in “Him”, or they crap themselves when a black female is used to portray God. Sign of a small limited mind.

      • TheBottomline4This

        You humor yourself. You don’t believe, yet you waste your time coming to a site where people do. Given you’re more than likely an Atheist, your opinion is irrelevant here.

        • jscotttheory

          Because I don’t anthropomorphize God, I’m an atheist….interesting leap in logic. If my opinion is irrelevant, then piss off and don’t respond to my comments.

          • TheBottomline4This

            I’m not going to “piss off” and I’ll respond to you at my choosing. Your views are not welcomed here if they cross a certain line. Once that happens, you’ll be removed.

          • zenlike

            So you want a safe space where none of your beliefs are challenged. Got it.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Of course each of us can be challenged. there comes a point when those who reject truth are a waste of time to deal with. I haven’t interacted with you much Zen, so time will tell if you’re one of them.

      • parquet

        Flagged.
        You need to move on.

        • jscotttheory

          Too insecure to have anyone challenge your world view?

          • Pam Beurman

            Of course they are!

          • TheBottomline4This

            Just as you are Pammy.

  • Amos Moses

    Dear Gloria,

    Highlights, the nationally recognized magazine for kids, has decided to include same-sex families in their magazines. Babies and preschoolers will soon be introduced to homosexuality in the Highlights line of magazines. Sadly, children’s publications are no longer off limits, even those designed specifically for toddlers and elementary age children.

    Highlights had stated previously that they believe parents should decide when to bring up the topic of homosexuality. But after backlash from the LGBT community, Highlights committed to including same-sex families in future publications.

    Highlights’ Christine Cully said, “When we do show families in the magazines, we make it a point to include diversity. We strive to be diverse in every way…In the future, we will depict same-sex families in our magazines in a manner consistent to the way all diverse families are depicted.”

    Many parents and grandparents buy subscriptions to these magazines as gifts, especially at this time of year. They should be warned of the upcoming change of content in these kid’s magazines. It is not Highlights’ job to introduce so-called “social issues” to children. That is a parent’s role.

    Tim Wildmon, President
    American Family Association

    PEDOPHILIA ……………………..

    • NCOriolesFan

      And Gays wonder why they’re the REAL haters.

    • Jenny Ondioline

      Why did you say “pedophilia”?

      • Amos Moses

        it is the sexualization of children and that is pedophilia ………

        • zenlike

          How are children sexualised?

      • zenlike

        It is on his mind.

    • DoctorDJ

      Ignoramus maximus.

  • Pamela Beurman

    Wow, threatened much? You have yet to prove that God even exists but, here you are, having a meltdown about someone’s fictional representation of he or she.

    Perhaps it’s time to grow up.

    • TheBottomline4This

      Share positive proof God doesn’t exist.

      • Pam Beurman

        Onus probandi! He who makes the claim is also responsible for providing proof.

        Go ahead, I’ll wait.

        • TheBottomline4This

          I didn’t make the claim, you did “Pamela”/”Pam”.

          • Pam Beurman

            Really? Show me where!

          • TheBottomline4This

            “You have yet to prove that God even exists”

          • Pam Beurman

            Well, have you? If so, please show documented, peer reviewed and scientifically backed evidence.

            Btw, the Bible doesn’t meet that criteria.

          • TheBottomline4This

            No, I don’t feel so insecure in knowing the truth that I have to meet your need for some kind of “proof” that we both know won’t change your views. Truth trumps the lies you believe.

            Why do you need proof? You don’t believe anyway. There are a lot of things I don’t believe. I don’t need proof for something I know isn’t true. Why are you bothered by something you don’t believe to begin with?
            If you are so certain of what you don’t believe as to come to a Christian site to ask for proof of God when you say God doesn’t’ exist, what is the point of you doing that?
            Why even come to a Christian site? I don’t go to Atheists sites to contend with them and ask them there to prove God doesn’t exist.

          • Pam Beurman

            Translation: I can’t back up anything.

            Somehow, I’m not surprised.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Your ignorance is your bliss.

          • Pam Beurman

            Sweetie, you’re the one who believes in imaginary beings, not me.

          • parquet

            Do have any hobbies besides hating?

          • Pam Beurman

            Asking for proof is hating? The real world must terrify you, huh?

          • parquet

            You must hate Christians because you are single and lonely.
            That’s very sad. How does hating us make your life any better? When you finish spewing your hate, you’re still alone sad. Hate is a very poor substitute for love.

          • Pam Beurman

            Sorry sweetie, large happy family!

            I really feel sorry for you, imaginary friends, false assumptions and this truly sick need to feel persecuted.

          • parquet

            Every post proves you are NOT happy at all.

            You should get a pet if you can’t find a man. A pet is better than nothing at all.
            Hate will age you prematurely.

          • Pam Beurman

            What a sad creature you are.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Your ignorance is your bliss.

          • zenlike

            Since you have zero evidence for your claims, you are the ignorant one here.

          • TheBottomline4This

            You have zero evidence God doesn’t exist.

          • zenlike

            You have zero evidence the tooth fairy doesn’t exist.
            You have zero evidence allah doesn’t exist.
            You have zero evidence vishnu doesn’t exist.
            You have zero evidence thor doesn’t exist.

          • TheBottomline4This

            You have zero evidence that God doesn’t exist. Zero.

          • zenlike

            So, according to your “logic”, the tooth fair, allah, vishnu, thor,… all exist.

            Because you are enable to provide evidence for their non existence.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            What does that prove? Nothing.

            I have zero evidence that a small teapot in orbit between Earth and Mars does not exist.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Share proof there is no God. The claim was made…”You have yet to prove that God even exists”. Prove it.

          • Pam Beurman

            Btw, I don’t need proof because I don’t feel the need to believe in an invisible deity in order to give my life meaning or to blame things on.

        • Radix

          Create lots of sock puppets, that way you can upvote yourself lots of times.

      • DoctorDJ

        It’s impossible to prove the nonexistence of a fictional being.
        You first: Prove that your god exists….

        Keep Thor in Thursday!!!!!

        • TheBottomline4This

          No, I don’t feel so insecure in knowing the truth that I have to meet your need for some kind of “proof” that we both know won’t change your views. Truth trumps the lies you believe.

          Why do you need proof? You don’t believe anyway. There are a lot of things I don’t believe. I don’t need proof for something I know isn’t true.
          If you are so certain of what you don’t believe as to come to a Christian site to ask for proof of God when you say God doesn’t’ exist, what is the point of you doing that?
          Why even come to a Christian site? I don’t go to Atheists sites to contend with them and ask them there to prove God doesn’t exist.

          • Pam Beurman

            Translation: can’t prove anything.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Translation, you can’t prove anything.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Pam doesn’t have to. She’s not the one making the claim.

          • TheBottomline4This

            “Pamela” and “Pam” have the same last name. Same person, different accounts. So yes, “Pamela” or “Pam” needs to share proof of her claim.

          • DoctorDJ

            “You don’t believe anyway.”
            I believe you are deluded.

            “Why even come to a Christian site?”
            To cause xtians to think, for a change. Try it, if you can.

          • TheBottomline4This

            You don’t have any thoughts beyond yourself. You are wrong in your thinking. You can be here, just don’t cross certain lines or you will be removed.

    • mike holt

      I understand you now. You have no where to go when you die. No God… walk outside and look around or better yet explain the making of an eye or ear in the evolution theory

  • sanford943

    its distribution could “far outweigh” the harm already done to souls through the printed page.
    Oh no, it’s harming souls! Whatever the hell a soul is. Won’t someone think of the spirits and the chakras and all that kind of stuff that is being “harmed” in some unspecified way by a movie?

    “If the film is a faithful portrayal of the events and the theology of the book, then every Christian should be gravely alarmed at the further advance of beliefs that smear the evangelical understanding of the truth of the Bible,” James B. DeYoung

    Apparently the Christian right has decided that “smear” means “offering a different perspective.” OMG, we’re being “smeared”! How ever shall we cope?

    Sarayu, lends itself to a dangerous and false image of God and idolatry,” Joe Schimmel, pastor of Blessed Hope Chapel in Simi Valley, California and host of the documentary “Hollywood’s War on God,” told Christian News Network.
    Yes, a false image of God as a fat black woman when everyone knows damn well that God is a white dude (and seriously, if being omnipotent doesn’t make him privileged, nothing will)

  • DoctorDJ

    Jesus is coming tomorrow, and boy is she pissed.

  • Francis Zine

    “Schimmel warned that such depictions, much like the children of Israel who forged a golden calf, create a god in man’s image.”

    I wish! I really wish that ‘man’ *was* loving, expansive, generous and forgiving. Unfortunately ‘man’ creates God in the image of vengefulness, exclusion, and punitiveness.

    • TheBottomline4This

      Elaborate on this “I wish! I really wish that ‘man’ *was* loving, expansive, generous and forgiving. Unfortunately ‘man’ creates God in the image of vengefulness, exclusion, and punitiveness.”

      • Francis Zine

        Hi, thanks for engaging.

        I’m on a journey of learning to read the Bible in a way that sees the non-violence of God as a central emerging theme brought to full fruition in the life, teaching and death of Jesus. As such, here’s one of the most frequent objections I run into:

        “You’re just ignoring what the Bible says and inventing a soft, warm, cuddly God that suits your fancy and then projecting that God onto the text of the Bible.”

        This is nonsense, and here’s why.

        How many times down the centuries have Christians indulged in excessive peace-making, non-violence and mercy and then projected that peaceful image onto God as justification for their peace-filled worldview? Hmmm…?

        Conversely, how many times have Christians down the centuries indulged in excessive aggression, violence and vengeance and then projected that onto God as justification for their violent ways?

        As human beings, we are not at much risk of spontaneously being too nice, kind, loving, compassionate and non-violent. Left unchecked, however, we are *very* likely to spontaneously be unpleasant, unkind, unloving, merciless and violent.

        So when you see someone insisting that violence is part of God’s nature, ask yourself how likely it is that they are projecting their own violent human tendencies onto God, just as some of the biblical writers did.

        And when you see someone trying to read the Bible discerningly so as to discover the all-forgiving, enemy-loving, non-violent God, consider the possibility that they have actually dared to come to terms with their own violence and to see that God, by contrast, is absolutely non-violent.

        • TheKingOfRhye

          Non-violence of God? In some parts of the Bible, God seems pretty violent to me. I mean, look at the flood story….he supposedly wiped out the world’s human population except for one family, and all the animals except two of each, right?

          • Francis Zine

            Yeah, there’s *loads* of violence – a lot of it mandated, commanded and organised by the God character. In a nutshell my hermeneutic approach is that God is like Jesus. What do we know about Jesus? That he preached non-violent enemy love. In Jesus we have the revelation that when God became incarnate in the world he was the crucified and not the crucifier. He was the forgiving victim of *our* violence. For conservatively minded Christians there’s lots to unpick and challenge in that very short summary and I’m happy to engage further if people want to. Reading your previous comments TheKingOfRhye I notice that you identify as an atheist. What do you think of the hermeneutical approach I’ve outlined?

          • TheKingOfRhye

            It still seems self-contradictory to me. You said yourself, there is a lot of violence “mandated, commanded, and organized” by God. Actually, in the story I mentioned, God didn’t mandate or command the violence (the flood), he just flat-out did it himself. Okay, I guess you can say that when Jesus came around, things changed, but you still can’t forget what happened in the Old Testament, can you?

          • Francis Zine

            In my developing view the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) is a human document that fallibly and errantly communicates the story of a people who sustain themselves in existence against the odds when they are perennially threatened by subsumption by powerful pagan empires. The people do this by recording in remarkable narratives, poems and prophetic writings their relational intimacy with a transcendent that is unimaginably powerful but not identified with the power of pagan empire. In the Exodus narrative Yahweh (the god of the Hebrews) frees the people from empire captivity and humiliates Pharaoh and his priests through displays of sheer power. Exodus is a narrative that initiates the possibility of a community forming itself around a transcendent that is not violent empire. It is just a start because the way divinity is figured in this narrative is different in degree to Pharaoh (immeasurably more powerful) but not necessarily in kind (displaying characteristics of violence and vengefulness). Nevertheless the naming of a counter-power to violent empire is a ‘revolution’ in the ancient world.

            A very large part of the pathos of the subsequent history of the people formed by this story is that violent empire continues to thrive in one shape or another – Assyrian, Babylonian, Greek, Roman etc. The cry is ‘How Long, O Lord, How Long?’ When will God act again decisively in history like He did at the Exodus and deal a decisive victory against the dehumanising idolatry of pagan empire?

            The centuries go by and God doesn’t do this. God doesn’t do it because he can’t and never could. The violent God of that initiating myth never existed. A century of research by archaeologists and Egyptologists has found zero evidence for a ‘real’ Exodus. How then can a victory be won against pagan empire so that the revolution can come to a culmination?

            Tune in next time!

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Are you saying you don’t believe the Old Testament is literal truth?

          • Francis Zine

            I’m saying that I think it’s ‘true myth’. It resonates with me. It speaks to my condition. Would you care to share something of the narrative that you live from? Please understand that I’m adopting a posture of listening and not critique. I’m genuinely interested as a fellow human being <3

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Some people here would most likely say you’re “not a true Christian” or something like that. (not that I care who is or not, really…lol)

            The narrative that I live from? I don’t think I live from any narrative. I’m an atheist (though once a Christian)…..

          • tommyboy

            Watch the documentary, Patterns of Evidence:Exodus.

          • tommyboy

            Mankind was violent…so God destroyed them in the Flood before they destroyed everything around them. Think about it. If God only saved eight people, then the rest of the humans living at that time must have been pretty wicked. When God told Abraham that if He found ten righteous people in Sodom, He would not destroy it. He couldn’t even find ten! He found one, Lot. That should tell you about the depravity of us sinners. After the Flood, most of that other “violence” you talk about was central to the nation of Israel and those around them. When you recognize you are a sinner and how bad you really are, it’s not hard to understand God’s acts of judgments in the Old Testament.
            Also, keep in mind that the world was different back then. We don’t know how populated the world was at the time of the Flood.

        • TheBottomline4This

          I read “I’m on a journey of learning to read the Bible in a way that sees the non-violence of God as a central emerging theme” then I stopped. That part made me pause. What denomination are you?

          • Francis Zine

            Well it’s a bit nosy (!) but I’m Methodist (UK). Why the interest?

          • TheBottomline4This

            Nosy? I didn’t ask for your weight. One shouldn’t be bothered to share what denomination they are. I’m non-denominational and have no problem saying so. Have a nice day!!

          • Francis Zine

            I’m just gently teasing. I hope you’re having a nice day too. Best wishes, Francis.

          • TheBottomline4This

            Sometimes it’s hard to tell in print if someone is teasing or not 🙂

  • Nidalap

    As the world descends into chaos, it will seek to replace Bible-believing Christianity with a more…sin-friendly version…

    • TheBottomline4This

      Unbelievers and some believers make a god of their own choosing. One that fits their desires and wants and sins.

  • Darren H

    I read the book and didn’t find it particularly bad, nor particularly inspiring. The woman’s race is hardly the issue, as we can safely assume that Jesus Christ was probably darker-skinned than the typical white American. God as woman is a real problem, theologically. It’s true that God is a spirit, not a physical being, so he is not a “man,” but if we accept the Bible as the foundation of Christianity, we have to accept that God revealed himself to us as He intended, and that we are to regard Him as Father, as Jesus obviously did.

    • libertynottyranny

      Respectfully disagree. God is spirit, but He is not only spirit. HE is also “love” (agape/charity) & a “consuming fire” – but “He” (as He refers to Himself throughout scripture) is not exclusively those things.

      Most importantly, Jesus is God & is sitting on the throne of God in heaven at His Father’s right hand. So, it is safe to say that the Son is a Man & at the same time He is God.

      The Bible reveals God as three distinct personalities (Father, Son, & Holy Spirit) as perfectly united in purpose as One God, united to carry out the will of the Father (heard in the Son’s own words “nevertheless, not My will but Thy will be done…”).

      Deuteronomy 6:4 conveys this when it demands:
      “Hear Oh Israel, the LORD (YVWH) your God (Elohim – a 1st person plural of 3 – meaning Gods) is One YHWH (LORD)”

      It’s not the grand & overt lies that are the problem. It’s the subtle ones – that is the tact of the enemy.

      So, calling God (of the Bible) a “she” is a problem, it contradicts scripture & is simply a lie. That isn’t to demean women, on the contrary – no religion elevates the status of women as does Christ. But it serves no holy purpose to mischaracterize God – no matter how well intended.

    • libertynottyranny

      Respectfully disagree. God is spirit, but He is not only spirit. HE is also “love” (agape/charity) & a “consuming fire” – but “He” (as He refers to Himself throughout scripture) is not exclusively those things.

      Most importantly, Jesus is God & is sitting on the throne of God in heaven at His Father’s right hand. So, it is safe to say that the Son is Man & at the same time He is God. He is not only “spirit” – His command to His disciples to handle Him, following His resurrection, in the upper room should be enough to dispel that notion.

      The Bible reveals God as three distinct personalities (Father, Son, & Holy Spirit), perfectly united in purpose as One God. United to carry out the will of the Father (heard in the Son’s own words “…nevertheless not My will but Thy will be done…”). Deuteronomy 6:4 conveys this when it demands:

      
”Hear Oh Israel, the LORD (YVWH) your God (Elohim – a 1st person plural of 3 – meaning Gods) is One YHWH (LORD)”

      • Adam Steed

        If God is a God, can’t God be whatever the hell it wants to be?

        • libertynottyranny

          If we are talking about God, Who is God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob, then He is Who & Whatever He says He is (including that “He changes not”). & He says Who He is, & He is not an “it” or a “she” – not b/c I say so but b/c His Word says so.

          If we are talking about your god (that which you give yourself over to in mind, body, & spirit), then it could be an it, she, or a tree, & looking for your god in hell may be very appropriate – indeed.

    • Shang Tsung

      You fail to take into consideration that the bible was written by white men. And more specifically white men in a time only white men were worthy of holding power. And the thing that people in power want to do most is keep power. If the bible is the most important book ever written it would make sense to make all the powerful characters in it male right??

  • Croquet_Player

    Don’t like a movie premise? Don’t go see it. Problem solved. I am not a fan of horror movies, so I don’t watch them. I feel no need to ban them or criticize them, and it’s perfectly fine with me if other people enjoy them. It has no effect on me whatsoever.

    • TheBottomline4This

      No need to ban, but we can critique it if we want.

      • Croquet_Player

        Sure you can. Which will create more interest in the film.

        • TheBottomline4This

          Films get attention whether good or bad. It’s all part of it.

          • Croquet_Player

            A lot of filmmakers would love to have a controversial fuss made over their film. Lots more press/publicity, and all for free.

          • TheBottomline4This

            That won’t make them get my money 🙂 Are you going to it?

          • Croquet_Player

            No, the film doesn’t interest me. But publicity increases audiences, and controversy draws in the curious.

  • Malcom Warner

    This movie is offensive, disgusting drivel. Why can’t these radical anti-Christian left wing heretics accept the obvious truth that God is a white man?

    • TheBottomline4This

      The part I disagree with is “a white”.
      Scripture reference for that?

      • Malcom Warner

        Ugh, are you one of those liberal college hippie types? The references are too numerous to even count. Wow, Obummer has managed to corrupt even Christiannews, apparently.

        • TheBottomline4This

          Mally, I agreed with the rest of what you said. Not sure why you didn’t provide Bible references for me. I haven’t found in my Bible readings any verses that say God is white. Guess you don’t have anything to back up your claim God is white.
          fyi…I’m a non-denominational Christian and politically I’m Independent. What denomination are you?

  • AnT

    White people are continually hypocrites. The first man and woman was Black. Jesus was Black. Paul was Black. White people only showed up in the Bible in the new testament as prophecied in Daniel 2. Daniel 2:43 says without the seed of man. I believe they are demons and not human. Yet they have dominated the Bible message and gospel by violence and force. They have lied on God since they came out of Europe. They have made their white movies of Biblical stories (our Black history) and say it doesn’t matter. They have never wanted to depict the truth of the Bible becuz of their white supremacy, now they suddenly want to pretend they care about the correct depiction in the Bible. Sit all the way down white people. It was never your Bible or God or people in the first place but you have lied to the world. White people have made millions hate God and not even want to know our righteous God through their perverted and hateful ways. Now they talk about depiction of God. White people are demonic and has made this earth a living hell for all those who are not white and some that are white as well. They know no God and God do not know them. They have lead the whole world and influence the whole world through deception. They are the deceiver of the earth, seeds of Satan who is the father of lies. This is what they had lead and influnced the world too in their own righteness. They are now complaining about the erroneous ways in which they them self has lead the whole earth. Know this, that even this book and movie is due to white people lies about God.

    • Codfish Ball

      “First man and woman was black.”

      Um, it’s “were.” Not “was.” Some verbs are “singular.” Other verbs are “plural.”

      Those darn public schools…

  • Oboehner

    Race in not the issue here, it is dogma.

    • Thomas_Adam_Lewis

      What’s the dogma? I’m curious.

      • Oboehner

        Read the article.

  • AnT

    White people are continually hypocrites. The first man and woman was Black. Jesus was Black. Paul was Black. White people only show up in the Bible in the New Testament as prophesied in Daniel 2. Daniel 2:43 says without the seed of man. I believe white people are demons and not human. Yet they have dominated the Bible message and gospel by violence and force. They lie on God since they came out of Europe. Make white movies of Biblical stories (our Black history) & say it doesn’t matter. They have never wanted to depict the truth of the Bible becuz of their white supremacy. Now they suddenly want to pretend they CARE about the correct depiction in the Bible. Sit all the way down white people. It was never your Bible or God or people in the first place but you have lied to the world. White people has made millions hate God and not even want to know our righteous God through their perverted and hateful ways. Now they talk about depiction of God. White people has made this earth a living hell for none white & some that are white too. They know no God and God do not know them. They have lead the whole world and influence the whole world by deception. They are the deceivers of the earth, the seeds of Satan who is the father of lies. This is what they have lead & influenced the world too in their own righteness but now white people are complaining about the erroneous ways in which they them self has lead & influenced the whole earth. Know this, that even this book and movie is due to white people lies about God.

  • DoctorDJ

    And I see all negative comments are bravely removed from this post. Very Christian (and typical).

  • Thomas_Adam_Lewis

    It’s hilarious that the “Christian” editors here can’t even take critical comments. LOL They line delete anything that isn’t the party line.

  • joseps

    There is no way to even prove the existence of God, nobody has ever done it, yet here you are arguing what he/she/it looks like. A child who has an imaginary friend can describe what their “friend” looks like because their “friend” is a figment of their imagination. A religion like Christianity, for the most part a patriarchal Western one, will no doubt portray their God as a white man. But like the child’s imaginary friend God, he/she/it or whatever, does not really exist beyond that child’s brain.

  • Adam Steed

    Well Gods don’t exist so there’s that…So she can do or play whatever role fits.
    Also If God is a God, can’t God be whatever the hell it wants to be?

  • Robert

    True God from true God our Jesus was not a woman And he always refers to his Father in masculine terms also.
    Those out side the church are not realy the threat those inside the church can be
    The wolves we should be more worried about are not Hollywood types or even wrong thinking scientist and public school teachers it’s Christians specifically Pastors and seminary profesdors who stand as judges over scripture rather. Than taking Gods word seriously even when it’s not logical or reasonable to do so
    They do take Gods word at face value as God intended . They would rather explain away the miracles Jesus virgin birth his rising bodly from the dead and the bible verses that to their reason. Seem contrary to other bible verses. Than just believing them all as that little infant child did that Jesus lifted up to his disciples to model their faith in Jesus after.

  • Robert

    According to reason we want to be masters over our Lord God and teach him what fits and does not fit.And if it does not fit then friend throw the doctrine out. So for example it makes no sense to sprinkle the children with water of baptism .Throw the doctrine out’
    ! In this way we will construct a right faith…According to reason we are intelligent in these matters as a cow. And if intelligence counted for any thing I could propably construct a religion better than You. But here we are not in a tavern. We are in a christian church.Where we must believe not what reason thinks is right or what pleased you or me.but what scripture tells us. Martin Luther

  • NCOriolesFan

    This book is blasphemous on the same level “The Last Temptation of Christ” was.

  • JCLincoln

    Well, that’s another movie that’s not getting any of my money. This is how we shut them down. we starve them to death.

  • Marie Brantley

    Why are we Christians so uptight! I believe in God the father, the son and the Holy Spirit. And nothing can turn me away from Him. But, I have no problem listening to a person’s testimony of how they perceived God. I just pray that they learn the truth and their experience will eventually lead them to truth. For me, before I met Christ I was in to astrology and Buddhism. Whether you believe it or not those roads led me to Christ, because I was seeking the truth. I think the rigidity of many pompous Christians, turn many, many people away from Christ. Just preach Christ his love, and all of his glory, and that is what is going to bring people to him, not jumping on all the heretics out there. God is love!! I believe the Word of the Lord is stronger than any heresy!

  • gladys whipple hurtis

    I was offended by the book. I felt dirty reading it. Friends said I wasn’t being open minded, but it just did not inspire me in the slightest. Then I read about the author, a drug addict who had been molested twice while his parents left him at a boarding school type environment. At first I thought he was angry with the Catholic Church. Then I realized it was some other church as both of his parents were missionaries … married Christian missionaries. I finished the book, but was totally turned off by its’ message. The bottom line, in my opinion, was it might have been written while the author was “high, or tripping” … and he could possibly have benefited from some therapy.

  • Rob Nero

    Wow. Way to judge the shell, rather than the actions thereof. Bravo. Once again you’ve completely perpetuated the notion of hypocrisy. I’d bet you’d probably be unkind to strangers if they didn’t appear or look they way you have “fixed” in your mind. And @Nidalap:disqus They aren’t replacing anything, it is telling a story of this person/characters experience. They aren’t rewriting the gospel. You must not have had a personal experience that was personal for you, that may be not common for others, but God knew this was the way to reach you, speak to you and that may not be they way for everyone else, but it was for you, because unconditional love is just that.