Atheists Seek Removal of Pennsylvania Bench That Features ‘God’ Quote From State Founder

OIL CITY, Pa. — An atheist group in New Jersey is seeking the removal of a bench at a Pennsylvania park that is meant to honor veterans due to an inscription of a quote attributed to the state’s founder that mentions God.

American Atheists (AA) recently sent a letter to the mayor of Oil City to request that the Justus Park bench, which was donated in 2003 by a local branch of the Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW), be removed out of its belief that its inscribed text violates the U.S. Constitution.

“Men who aren’t governed by God, will be governed by tyrants,” the bench reads, paraphrasing a quote that is often attributed to Pennsylvania founder William Penn, a Quaker who wrote a number of theological books and who once stood trial for “causing a tumult” in preaching in the streets.

AA contends that the quote violates the Establishment Clause of the U.S. Constitution, which instructs that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.” The group also says the text is disrespectful to non-Christians.

“[T]he Tyrants Bench contains an overtly religious message which endorses one particular religious viewpoint: Christianity. The statement that ‘Men who aren’t governed by God will be governed by tyrants’ not only has absolutely nothing to do with honoring our service members, but is derisive toward the all non-Christian American service members who have served and died for this country,” its letter asserted.

It offered to provide a secular bench in exchange for the current display.

“If Oil City agrees to remove the Tyrants Bench, American Atheists is willing to donate a new bench to replace the Tyrants Bench that would be the same as the second bench in the VFW Memorial, except it would have a message that honors all of the brave men and women who have fought for the United States,” AA wrote.

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There is reportedly already a second bench at the memorial site, which only uses general language about the military. Other secular monuments also surround the vicinity of the bench.

Last month, city council members agreed to replace the bench, but some residents have been fighting to keep it in place. The site savethebench.org has raised over $17,000 in pledges to show Mayor William Moon that financial resources will be available if the matter needs to go to court.

“The quote by William Penn, appearing on the Tyrants Bench, honors Pennsylvania’s founding father, as well as the men and women who gave their lives to protect the rights of all U.S. citizens,” the site reads. “The Tyrants Bench is an expression of gratitude to those whom it honors, and no one has ever been forced to look at or use the bench.”

The religious liberties group Liberty Counsel has also offered to provide legal services pro bono to the city if it wishes.

“The VFW memorial, complete with the Tyrants Bench, is completely constitutional and does not violate the Establishment Clause in any way,” said Founder and Chairman Mat Staver. “The American Atheists are blatantly incorrect and acting out of complete ignorance. This William Penn quote is part of a tribute to the veterans and founders of America. I strongly urge the City Council of Oil City to maintain the bench in place.”

Liberty Counsel also wrote in its letter to Moon that passersby would not find the bench to constitute government speech because of its inscription “Erected 2003 by Oil City VFW Post 464.” It contended that God does not need to be scrubbed from public monuments in order for them to be constitutional.

“Moreover, within the immediate proximity to the veterans memorial are bronze sculptures depicting children playing by the river; an Oil City ‘derrick,’ a 9/11 memorial, and a sign discussing the historic origins of the park,” it additionally noted. “Thus, the overall effect of a single quotation attributed to William Penn, as one portion of a VFW memorial in context, in a park, surrounded by numerous other secular symbols, does not ‘advance religion’ as claimed by American Atheists.”


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  • Oboehner

    Tyrants are ok though.

    • libertynottyranny

      LOL.

      Didn’t realize that congress was mandating the establishment of “park benches w/ religious inscriptions”. Next thing you know they may insist that we all bend a knee to said park bench. So fortunate to have groups like AA fighting such oppression.

      Well at least the atheists got the right God, even though it isn’t explicitly stated in the inscription, when they claim it could be offensive to “non-Christians”. Never a doubt which God they are at war with. As you point out, tyrants & the spirit behind them (as well as any other ‘god’) are just fine by them.

      • Ambulance Chaser

        There does not have to be a mandate or an act of Congress for there to be an Establishment Clause violation.

        • Jason Todd

          There is no Establishment Clause violation. Congress didn’t create Christianity.

          The truth is, you, like these anti-Christian bigots, only wish to see Christian speech silenced.

          No.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Excuse me, but don’t presume to tell me what I want. I don’t tell you what you want.

            And I didn’t say whether there was or wasn’t an Establishment Clause violation, so I don’t know who you think you’re responding to.

          • Amos Moses

            yeah, tyrants tell everyone to shut up about their rights …… equally ………

          • Ambulance Chaser

            I have no idea what you’re talking about.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            The fact that they didn’t create Christianity doesn’t mean anything. The Establishment Clause applies to all religions.

    • Kaz

      Well, sure, if they’re atheist tyrants.

      You know, the biggies – Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, Tito,…. Real sweethearts, overflowing with compassion.

  • Amos Moses

    Crybullies want to bully ………….. boohoo …. pity me, pity me, pity me ………………

    • Oboehner

      Interesting how much effort they put into such activities when they claim simple disbelief.

      • Mr Cleats

        Ever met a happy atheist?
        No, and you never will.

        • johndoe

          Really? LOL! This atheist has a wonderful life with wife and daughters. I have a fantastic job as does my wife. I live on 8acres with our horses. What’s not to get happy about? There are extremes to everything and these atheists are in that camp. One doesn’t need to believe in supernatural dieties to be happy. LMAO!

          • John Buchanan

            Have you considered your spiritual bankruptcy sir ? Really, who is forgiving your sins and answering your prayers ? Telling us about your 8 acres, great jobs and wonderful life is indicative of somebody trying to mask their real pain through materialism. I understand because I used to be that guy . You will never know the peace that passes all understanding and joy unspeakable until you know your Creator. There will always be a longing in your heart that stuff cannot fill . You may not believe in God but He believes in you and loves you .

          • johndoe

            I have no pain. I’m not materialistic. I no longer believe in prayer or sin. The only longing in my heart is for my daughters to be healthy and happy in life as well as my wife.

          • John Buchanan

            Sir, you offered up the info about the fantastic job you have and that’s okay because it’s easy to hide behind a title and derive one’s worth and value from a paycheck . The question is what do you do when all the props are pulled out from under you ? I submit to you that there were people who began 2016 holding six figured positions that they enjoyed as well , and certainly never saw them coming to an end …..but they did
            There were people who saw themselves as happily married at this time last year and certainly didn’t see the divorce papers coming ….but they did . There were people who saw themselves as healthy and one day their child fell ill . I don’t wish any hardship upon you but I can say that I have done enough living and after trials and tragedies, I am qualified to speak on these matters . Maybe you believe all is well and you wish to be the captain of your own ship and because the seas appear calm in this season of life, you choose not to acknowledge or have a relationship with God and that’s okay because He gives everyone free will to choose whether to have a relationship or not . The day is coming when you will hit your knees and cry out to God for help . I pray for you that comes sooner than later .

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Or maybe some people don’t believe in a god because they don’t find any reason to believe in one, not because everything is okay in their life. I’ve gone through some pretty hard times in my life at various times, yet I still remain as much of an atheist as I ever was.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Is what you seem to be suggesting even a good thing? That people only turn to God when they are going through hard times? Shouldn’t someone believe in God because they find a logical reason to do so, they find that it just makes sense, no matter what their situation in life is, good or bad?

          • John Buchanan

            I am glad that you would take the time to consider . I believe that turning to have a relationship with the Father is good no matter how one must come . I know Him to be good no matter what , even though always isn’t. He has made Himself real and known in my life . He has always done me good . I said what I did twofold, one that oftentimes it has been my observation in life that when times are well and a man is prospering and advancing in his career , that he sees no need for God amidst his success. Secondly, trying to navigate the storms of life without His help , is unimaginable to me . Again, the sun is glistening perfectly across the waters in your life in this season and things seem surreal but my experience tells me the storms of life will come . A great man was once traveling a couple of centuries back when slave trade was commonplace and he was carry a supply of these men , when the high seas roared and he saw the waves as daunting beyond his greatest fears . In that moment he penned a song called Amazing Grace . Maybe you have heard of it . That is the origin . My point being is that man came to the end of himself that day . He cried out to God and the rest is history . I believe Amazing Grace is more than a song , it’s a way of life . You cannot with Amazing Grace by logic . So if you are trying to prove the claims of Christ by logic , you will be greatly challenged . I cannot prove the wind exist but I can show you the leaves on the trees blowing. It takes faith to believe in that which is unseen , yet that is what He requires. Atheist struggle to get their heads around that , but God requires your heart . The Bible describes God as one who opposes the proud or arrogant, those who feel they don’t need Him. However, it says He gives grace to the humble or a better way of saying He reveals Himself to those who seek Him . He says draw near to me and I will draw near to you . If I have provoked any thought between you and God today, it was time well spent. I know He loves you and He is desirous of a real relationship with you .

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Okay, maybe I said that wrong earlier, I should have said “faith” instead of “logic” perhaps. I don’t know, it seems to me that going through difficult times, or even seeing someone else going through them, could just as easily cause someone to doubt or lose faith or however you could put it.

            You said atheists “struggle to get their heads around” faith? Yeah I suppose I do. That’s why Iam an atheist, after all. Not because I have had a good life or a bad life or because I “want an excuse to sin” or “hate God” or whatever other silly reason people think must be the case. (Not saying you said that, but I hear it a lot…)

          • 0pus

            No such word as “dieties.”

          • You seem to need to trawl Christian web sites to be happy. How very sad.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            Not seeing much Christian love here, honestly.

          • Why would you find Christian love when you hate Christ? You should come here to find Christian hate!
            Do not I hate them, O Lord, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            I don’t hate Christ. What I hate is the hateful things people try to project on Him, such as you saying with a straight face that homosexuals should be killed.

          • And I quote: Even
            as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving
            themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set
            forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
            You would think from reading the old testament that the fire was merely earthly. The NEW testament of our Lord Jesus Christ tells us that this vengeance is eternal fire.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            Jesus Christ wouldn’t kill people for being homosexuals. You would, and you try to project that onto Jesus.

          • It seems that the first time you understand about the wrath of God is when you are the receiving end. Dearly
            beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for
            it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
            I rather wonder what you are being repaid for that you are so intent on receiving his vengeance.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            I also know that Jesus ate with lepers and prostitutes. He didn’t kill them.

          • Hold that thought. He’ll get to you. I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            Well, if you want to kill people in the name of your religion, you’re not like any Christian I have ever met, so maybe you’re doing it all wrong.

          • You really don’t get out much.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            Probably a good thing if by “people who get out” you mean people who want to kill in the name of their religion.

          • You wouldn’t want your keyboard to cool down while you are out risking your life to get exposed to all those dangerous people that believe the Bible.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            The vast majority of Christians who don’t want to kill people I have no issue with. What does that suggest to you about they way you are choosing to follow it?

          • It is you that has the issue. You just said that. The judgment of God is that your favored people are worthy of death: but you hate that anyone should agree with his judgment.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            It isn’t your place to speak on the judgment of God because you are not God. And maybe leave the killing to God as well.

          • Maybe God has spoken on this matter. I’ll repeat his words rather than accept yours, thank you.

          • Quark Spark

            Well whenever you feel like enacting God’s wrath upon this non-believer, you step right up to the plate and take your swing. I guarantee you that if you threaten my life, you might meet him sooner than I will. You will definitely find out if he exists or not.

      • Liberal Elitist

        The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

        • The General

          Oh, wonderful, the virtuous SJWs are looking after us.
          Get over yourselves.

        • Oboehner

          Good thing, I was feeling oppressed by that bench, however some religious group (AA) telling me what it is I wish to see is perfectly fine.

          • Jenny Ondioline

            What “religion” are they?

      • Amos Moses

        a lot of effort to stop a thing they say is non-existent ……….. or even that they “do not know” ….. like there is a difference ……….

        • JustThink

          Surely you understand that there is a huge difference between those two things. You don’t “know” any more about the existence of your god than atheists do. That’s why you have what is called “faith”. Don’t confuse wanting something to be true with actually knowing it to be true.

          • Amos Moses

            surely there is not ………. denial is denial ………..i know for a certainty that God exists …… what faith requires is that we believe what He says about salvation …..

          • JustThink

            Faith requires that you believe he or any number of gods that people believed in before and after yours was invented actually existed. If your god’s existence was a knowable thing, we’d all be believers.

            And, yes, surely there is a difference. I have faith that you can understand that. Let me know if you need examples and explanations.

          • Amos Moses

            “Faith requires that you believe he or any number of gods that people believed in before and after yours was invented actually existed.”

            is that a scientific, theological or personal opinion ………….

          • JustThink

            How about a nice definition of faith from Merriam and Webster:
            2
            a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion
            b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust

          • Amos Moses

            how about one from scripture …… there is ALL proof for Gods existence …… you lie to yourself to deny His existence …… this is a christian forum …… not the “Merriam and Webster” forum ………………….

          • JustThink

            Ok, you reject dictionaries in favor of scripture. And that’s why we can’t have an adult dialogue about this subject. You deny the existence of thousands of other gods just because you happen not to have been raised in a different culture. But that fact is likely lost on you.

          • Amos Moses

            no …. dictionaries are often good …… but especially of recent vintage ….. they are proving useless ……. and the discussion here is christianity …… you came here ….. did you not know this …. or just miss it …. “you deny the existence of thousands of other gods just because you happen not to have been raised in a different culture.” ……. there are many false gods ….. i do not deny them … i recognize them as false …………. and that fact is lost on you ……

          • JustThink

            Hard to decipher the meaning of your last post with all the extra periods inserted. Are you saying recent dictionaries are useless or often good? I hope it’s the latter, because they contain the most up-to-date and relevant information about words, etymologically speaking. Kind of like science textbooks replacing bibles when one wants to learn where humans came from. Recent is better.
            Yes, I realize this is a Christian website. I also realize the subject matter pertains to atheism, so I think I’m more than qualified to comment here.
            Out of curiosity, do you think you would have discovered the same god had you been born in India? It’s not a trick question, I promise.

          • Amos Moses

            dictionaries are good ………… but the post-modern person thinks they can change the meaning of things to suit them ….. there is no meaningful communication with that ….. etymology means nothing any longer ……….. and we are on a christian forum ……. the topic is christianity ………. not dictionaries ………

          • JustThink

            Please stop with the extraneous periods. Those, coupled with your avoidance of answering clearly-phrased questions, are making it hard to have a conversation.
            Which post modern changed the meaning of what in particular? Can you be specific to help me in my understanding?
            And the topic was atheists.

        • Oboehner

          Makes one wonder when they are going to go on a crusade to stop santa – unless they are just a bunch of whiney hypocrites who actually DO believe in God and are just trying to forget.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            It never ceases to amaze me, but a lot of people actually believe that.

        • TheKingOfRhye

          It’s not the thing that we don’t believe in that we are trying to stop.

          • Amos Moses

            if it does not exist ….. then it does no harm ……… all you have to do is to continue to believe it is not there ……. till it smacks you in the face …………

          • TheKingOfRhye

            You really still don’t get it?

            It ain’t a non-existent god we’re fighting against. It’s some of the things the most-definitely-existing followers of that (or any other!) god do in his name. I thought that was pretty obvious.

            By the way, this isn’t the sort of thing that I get all riled up about myself. A reference to God on a park bench? I’d agree that it shouldn’t be there, but it doesn’t get my knickers in a bunch, so to speak. Maybe that’s just because I’m so used to that sort of thing from my past.

          • Amos Moses

            oh i got it …… you are afraid of what christianity and God represents …… even though you say it does not exist or you “do not know” …… when you certainly do know ………

          • TheKingOfRhye

            No, you don’t get it. Not if you think I am afraid of Christianity, or what a god who I don’t believe in represents. You don’t know what you’re talking about.

            What is it, exactly, that Christianity represents that you think I am so afraid of?

          • Amos Moses

            law and your being held accountable to it ………..

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Wrong again.

          • Amos Moses

            nope ………

          • Amos Moses

            Culture In Which All Truth Is Relative Suddenly Concerned About Fake News and Supposed “Fake” Gods …..

          • TheKingOfRhye

            And when have I ever said “all truth is relative”??

    • JustThink

      And Christians want to bully in real life. Just ask any non-christians or homosexuals in this country. Atheists want to take away an offensive bench. Christians want to take away the rights and freedoms of those that are different from them.

      • Amos Moses

        baloney ………. telling you the truth about what is, is not bullying ………… you would not have any of those “freedoms” WITHOUT christianity ……

        • JustThink

          Exactly which freedoms wouldn’t I have without Christianity?

          • Amos Moses

            look at those societies that are hostile to christianity and the answer is clear ………. only those the state deems that we should ……. which amounts to none ……..

          • JustThink

            So you aren’t going to tell me exactly which freedoms I wouldn’t have in this country without Christianity? Ok.

          • Amos Moses

            did i just not say ………… let me spell it for you again ……. you will have N-O-N-E ……… did you get it that time ………. N-O-N-E , N-O-N-E , N-O-N-E , N-O-N-E , N-O-N-E ….. Got it ………

          • JustThink

            Can you name a couple?

  • Roy Hobs

    The spirit of Anti-Christ is hard at work.

    • jscotttheory

      Nah, I delegated this task to my minions

      • Roy Hobs

        It is a ‘telling’ phenomena for sure………………there are more anti-Christs on this site than Christians. And it is a Christian site.
        As I always say — The Spirit of Anti-Christ is a Parasite. They hate Him but can’t live without His. Who is the ultimate parasite? For ears to hear.

        • jscotttheory

          I understand that Christians get upset if someone crashes their little circle jerk of mediocrity, but I just pop in to raise the level of cacophony from time to time. Don’t worry though, it has become tedious.

  • Martha Bartha

    God Damn It!

  • Mr Cleats

    Troubled and troublesome people, atheists.

    Instead of doing works of charity, they just make nuisances of themselves. Clearly they have zero love for their fellow man. Churches send people on mission trips to Haiti, while the atheists run around whining about crosses. The religion of the cross has established thousands of schools, hospitals, and charities throughout the world, so why is the cross so offensive? I’m not ashamed of being a Christian, we’ve done awesome things in the past 2000 years.

    • johndoe

      Too funny! I’ve gone to Haiti with my colleagues from our hospital for 5yrs now. You’re not the only people who do charity work. LOL!

    • Croquet_Player

      I’m sorry, the fact that you are unaware that atheists do charity work doesn’t mean they aren’t doing it. I am personally familiar with atheists who have raised money for Doctors without Borders, “Adpot-a-Highway”, post-tornado relief in Oklahoma, and various food banks for the homeless. The cross is not offensive per se. It just shouldn’t be on public property. You are entirely welcome to erect all the crosses and religious monuments you like on private property, and no one will mind at all.

      • JustThink

        Two Christmases ago, my atheist wife and I bought a mountain bike and donated it to a 15 year old orphan whom we will never meet. And the experience of doing it brought me to tears in the store. And I never shared that story with most of my friends and family because getting credit for it was not my reason for doing it. But then again, I’m just an atheist who is dead inside.

        • JustNTyme

          No, you’re like all atheists, a pathological liar.

          “15 year old old orphan”. Yeah, right. You jerks are shameless.

          • JustThink

            I won’t generalize all Christians by saying you are just like them. I hope you are not. Why the f— would I lie about donating a bike to an orphan? Which part can’t you wrap your brain around? Your idea of atheists is wrong? A 15 year old can’t be an orphan?

          • Palsgraf’s Scale

            All things atheists say are lies. Even things once true, once said by atheists, become lies. Right?

  • eruaran

    Tyrants… #irony

  • John Buchanan

    Still historical in nature . I say fight them.

    • johndoe

      Agreed

  • Tangent002

    I doubt this suit will be successful. The courts have ruled in the past that ‘God’ is non-specific to a particular religion and has thus lost most of it’s religious connotation. This is why ‘In God We Trust’ on our currency has been deemed Constitutional.

    If the bench had read, “Men who aren’t governed by Jesus…” then there would be a legitimate case.

  • Mark Moore

    I guess he never heard of Torquemada, the great Christian genocides of the Indians. The great enslavement by the Christians of the South Americans, the slave trade blessed by the anglican and Catholic Church.

    Just off hand that is a miserable quote that is essentially a lie.

    • JustThink

      Christians aren’t looking for truths about the history of their religions. Try not to destroy that warm blanket of denial and bigotry that keeps them warm at night

      • Roy Hobs

        And your version of ‘history’ is spotless, accurate and holy.
        “The Victors Write the History”
        Therefore it is incumbent upon every man to research history from a variety of researchers/sources; so that any upright honest man can come as close to the truth as possible. Have you done that? Are you an honest broker? Of course you will try to convince me you are. Based on your comment you are not.

        • JustThink

          My version of history is not holy. I try my hardest to find the real truth about everything. When there is no evidence for what I believe, I change my beliefs. Or I freely admit that I just do not know. I don’t know why that is hard for others to admit. But my version of history is never going to include as its sources any magical books of unknown origin. That isn’t what I consider evidence. This article is about a quote on a bench which many non-Christians would likely find offensive. And that includes veterans who shouldn’t be made to feel that their service to their country was somehow inferior to the next guy because he didn’t believe in fairy tales. Please try not to take offense by atheists wanting to honor veterans equally.

    • Roy Hobs

      Here we go again…………….WHITE GUILT on full display.
      Another Tim Wise disciple.

  • john doe

    OK, the Jefferson Memorial in DC is on FEDERAL land and is considerably larger than a park bench, and is seen by millions of visitors annually.

    Here’s some of the Jefferson quotes inscribed in huge letters on the memorial:

    God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever.

    Almighty God hath created the mind free.

    I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.

    In all, the memorial has 5 uses of the word “God.”

    Also, “Creator” and “holy Author of our religion.”

    So, atheists, you just better get started, because that Jefferson Memorial is just about to establish a theocracy any minute now.

    Are you scared?

    • Amos Moses

      Alright …… they best be breaking out the jackhammers ………….

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    The statement is so true!! Secular USA is a real unbelievable tragedy in human history. The world was shocked that the Germans, of all the peoples on the planet, would follow a demon like Hitler last century. Today’s Germans say, “We were crazy for that 10 years,” but they still refuse to honor God and can’t even educate the foreigners and kids to behave within the land this century. It’s a worse shock that the Americans, among all the peoples on earth, could choose to hurt global children by installing blasphemy and homosexuality systematically. What will become of USA unless it repents? USA makes the entire Earthlings humble; if Americans cannot withstand the mental illness from the unconditional inclination to homosexuality, no nation or tribe can possibly. Israel has God’s covenant, and USA’s only hope is its intact Christian population in the land.

    • Roy Hobs

      Anyone with an opinion of ww2 should be required to watch — “The Greatest Story Never Told”.

      • Amos Moses

        So looking on the utube machine …….. i see several of different lengths …… up to 6 hours …… if it is available to you ….. “Hunting Hitler” on the History Channel currently season 2 with both seasons available streaming …… shows that AH escaped Germany to South America ………. was planning for a fourth Reich until his death there …… following the evidence and with full US FBI and CIA knowledge …..

        • Roy Hobs

          Hi Amos…
          You want Dennis Wise’s documentary: “Adolf Hitler, The Greatest Story Never Told.”
          I also highly recommend everyone read Mein Kampf.
          Richard Tedor has a good book — Hitler’s Revolution.
          Another must read — “The Myth of German Villainy, by Benton L. Bradberry”

        • Roy Hobs

          Amos,
          You can go straight to the source — thegreateststorynevertold dot tv

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        High school textbooks and talking with the survivors are sufficient.

        • Roy Hobs

          Well, there you have it folks. Thanks for reinforcing my point.

      • antifasciste

        Holocaust denial, and the Leuchter Report have been scientifically debunked. Time to crawl out of your cave and smell the coffee in the real world.

        • Roy Hobs

          Rolling on floor laughing.

    • JustThink

      “I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord..” -Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf).

      Installing homosexuality systematically? Where do you get all you misinformation and crazy conspiracy theories?

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        Hitler was a Darwinian racist and was defeated by the Christian Americans. Today’s USA is behaving like Nazi Germany in educating children to be immoral( Nazi Youth movement) in public schools and in forcing immorality upon the nations. White men are powerful and they always need Christian virtues to be humane to everyone. Just a fact from world history and current goings.

        • JustThink

          Again, you’re choosing to live in a bubble of misinformation. Please actually study history before posting. To deny that many of Hitler’s beliefs about the Jewish people came from Christianity is to just pretend that he didn’t write those books or give those speeches. Unlike the bible’s questionable origin, we have absolute proof those were his words.
          And you, with all of your unfounded bigotry, can thank Alan Turing for helping defeat the Germans. He was the homosexual responsible for breaking the German Enigma encryption machine and saving the lives of an estimated 14 million people. He later killed himself because of people like you. You need history lessons. Step outside of your bubble/bible and educate yourself. Otherwise, you risk indoctrinating your children with the same misinformation. And that’s bad for all of us.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are wrong. Nations and tribes disliked the Jews because the Jews don’t confirm into the main tribes while being always better-off. Their keeping of the Sabbath and the diet must be real superb to human brain. The Christendom treated them the best among all mankind especially the Christian USA. The Jews flourished in white men’s Christendom alone; elsewhere they are nameless in comparison. Germany was liberated and fed by the Christian USA and her Christian allies last century. Most white men claimed to be Christian until about 40 years ago.

            Something kept going wrong horribly since the 70’s in the Western nations. I think the Western nations became too well-fed and bored from having everything for decades and decades and got the mental illness of nudism and homosexual inclination by the turn of the 21st century. Otherwise, no human would teach the children to be so immoral. And the children are not even their own at that! Homosexual people commit suicide because living out such abnormal immorality is too much to honest human souls. Man needs Christianity to get saved and be civilized.

          • JustThink

            And… my head just exploded from reading what you wrote and realizing that you actually believe it. I’m still wondering where you get this stuff from. It certainly isn’t based in reality.
            By the way, there are still plenty of white men who “claim” to be Christians because history has been unkind to those who don’t (see Crusades. also, see the many laws on the books in America that say atheists cannot hold public office).
            And Alan Turing committed suicide following the chemical castration he underwent for his “crime” of being a homosexual. He would have likely been just fine had he been left alone by the government he worked so hard for.
            Fun fact, homosexuality exists in nearly every animal species that has been observed by man. But I guess those animals were given free will, so it’s not god’s fault (or some silly rationale that you might come up with to explain why that’s the case (unless you just outright stick your head in the sand and pretend it’s not true)).

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            If you are not American or don’t love America, don’t talk about America as if you know it. Unlike today’s shameless secular Americans, mankind had decency to be ashamed of sins. Today’s USA is a brand-new species in that they take pride in destructive shameful things. Men are not animals and should not behave like animals. Be civilized like your Christian forefathers were. You guys are too immoral to understand even your own ancestors. Sad.

          • JustThink

            I am an American. I am also an animal like you (a living organism that feeds on organic matter, typically having specialized sense organs and nervous system and able to respond rapidly to stimuli. – Merrian-Webster dictionary).
            I live in a nation founded by these gentlemen:

            ‘The government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.’ – President John Adams (Treaty of Tripoli).

            ‘…it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. … Reason and free enquiry are the only effectual agents against error’ – Thomas Jefferson

            Somehow, looking out for ALL people is what you consider an “immoral” act? Pathetic.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            No, you had false education. Humans are not animals but God’s image-bearers. Same creatures but totally different. Genesis 1. America’s anthems and independence document and the original constitution docements ask God to bless and protect the people and declare submission to Him alone and that America was created to spread the noble Christianity just as Canada and Australia were.

          • JustThink

            I have an ongoing education. I didn’t stop with the bible.
            Oh, right, God’s image. Like the children born with disorders such as Tetra-amelia. Born with no limbs. I guess God has many images.

            “America was created to spread the noble Christianity just as Canada and Australia were.”

            Is that a direct quote from the constitution or declaration of independence? I can’t find that part in my copies.

          • Studentenviro

            Sorry to burst your bubble but Australia was originally a British penal colony.

          • Lisa

            are you a born-again, Bible believing Christian? Do you believe in a literal Hell, that homosexuality is a sin and that it is a choice? Do you believe Christianity is the only way to heaven? That would explain every.single.word. you post.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Yes, I am and I believe all the things you mentioned. I also believe in literal Heaven, too. I’m talking to the Post-christian USA.

    • JustThink

      And the fact that you are responsible for teaching children scares the crap out of sane people.

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        Everyone needs Christian education. Americans were good only when they were Christian.

        • JustThink

          I think you’re living in a fantasy land with that statement. Can you point to a year in which America was all Christian and a great nation because of it?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            All years since the landing of the English Puritans; but something started going wrong in the 1970’s. America has nothing worthy apart from Christianity. Just some illiteracy, like all other tribes on earth. You must not attack your own good parents and good educators.

          • JustThink

            The only good educators you will find on this Christian News site are the non believers who stop by and feel compelled to point out the fallacies in your arguments. Occasionally, you will find the worthwhile Christian who, while misguided in their beliefs, came away with the teachings that Jesus (magical or not) tried to spread. You know, the good parts like the golden rule and love thy neighbor type stuff.
            And illiteracy is why the bible is full of magic and misinformation. Because nobody wrote anything down that supposedly happened until hundreds of years had passed. Good luck maintaining the details with that kind of system.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are wrong. God is holy. America’s real problem is its hatred against Christianity. You guys hate Christianity because you want to continue conducting the infanticide and immorality. That’s sin and nothing of love. Love tells the truth. Read Psalm 14, John 3, and 1 Corinthians 13.

          • JustThink

            You don’t see me trying to get you to read my favorite works of fiction, so you probably shouldn’t do the same to me.

            I’m not a fan of Christianity because, as it has been proven by you time and time again, it is a divisive ideology. You can either believe in these books that were written thousands of years ago by people who were not there for the actual events they attempted to document, or you can burn in hell for eternity. Nice things to teach a child who doesn’t know any better. But it certainly has kept the sham going for a good long while.

          • antifasciste

            Yikes, I’ve been teaching at a University for 30 years, and a Christian. Please don’t tell my bosses I’m not a “good educator”.

          • JustThink

            As long as what you are teaching is fact-based, then you are probably a fine teacher. I didn’t mean to imply that Christians can’t be good educators. It was the “education” passed around on this particular site that I was generalizing. It doesn’t seem to be fact-based education, but any information shared by an outsider attempting to enlighten appears to be unwelcomed. So many people here bashing atheists, and no one would dare take the time to get to know one. In fact, some of the generalizations I’ve heard Christians spout about atheists/atheism describes no atheist I’ve ever encountered. It’s just propaganda.

          • antifasciste

            I get that, one of the problems of discussion forums is tone and intent can be lost. I perceived “painting with a broad brush” so I just added a little snark. I also know atheist/agnostics that are caring, compassionate and moral. I prefer to get my “spiritual food” from the teachings of Jesus, but I may be too broad minded to suit some of the active posters here.

          • JustThink

            Broad minded is a good thing. Hate and intolerance from people of faith AND people of no faith just doesn’t make sense. I don’t happen to believe in an afterlife, so I’d prefer to see peace, love, and compassion during my lifetime. My parents are Catholic. My friends are a mix of Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, agnostics, and atheists. I respect people’s beliefs up until the point that they infringe upon the liberties of others. I think keeping government and religion separate should be seen as a middle ground so that citizens of this country are not made to feel like they don’t belong. And I try to just live by the golden rule as my moral compass. It’s simple, yet it would be incredibly effective if it were universally followed. Thanks for the amiable dialogue.

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    Christian USA was the finest, the most noble nation on earth which many Earthlings respected and adored and desired to become like; today’s secular USA is known as a perv destroyer which so many Earthlings despise, though Americans keep making sacrifice for the world. So sad. USA needs God for the truth, honor, meaning, righteousness, and for intact children. Americans must not yield to atheists; it’s losing the nationhood itself. America is America because the nation honors God. Godless USA is meaningless and cannot do good, either.

    • Quark Spark

      Might I remind you that USA is mostly run by Christians. Secular lawmakers can’t even get a running vote. This country is RUN by Christians and it is falling apart at the seams. Most politicians are Christians and they are some of the most corrupt vile human beings on the face of the planet.

      Christianity is what is killing this country. I think it is time religion takes a seat and secular values come into light. At secular values don’t include killing people or condoning slavery.

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        You are wrong because of the liberalism’s indoctrination by falsehood. Secularists slaughter the unborn children and push sexual depravity upon mankind without exception. Christians rescue people and liberate everyone everywhere for all time. Americans don’t know the outside world, always being protected by the finest Christian churches. The Western civilization including America has nothing good apart from Christianity as man is nothing apart from his conscience. You secular Americans must stop attacking the truth – Christianity – and your own parents.

  • bowie1

    Ironic it also mentioned being governed by tyrants which the opponents seem to fit the description well.

    • Garden of Love

      That’s why they don’t like the quote.

  • Chosm

    AA is a joke. Pursuing worthless ventures. FInding fault where there is none. Pity them.

  • JustThink

    Since Penn was a devout Christian, maybe they ought to go whole hog and rename the state.

    You can’t be too careful. Everyone knows that one word on a park bench can establish theocracy instantly.
    * gulp *

  • Ginger

    Why did some one from out of state-New Jersey come up with the complaint? New Jersey is a lot of sxxx. This country was founded by Christians. The American Revolution was a biblical revolution, not a Freemasonry revolution, which France did lot of terrible deaths. Look at the history.

  • What a bunch of tyrants these atheists are!

    • Quark Spark

      Tell me more about how Christianity spread through the world.

      If memory serves me correctly, and it does, Christianity was forced on the world at the tip of the sword with the threat of death attached to the hilt.

      You wanna talk about tyranny? Look up the history of Christianity and tell me that isn’t it.

      Atheists simply want to be treated equally and our children to be taught with reason, logic and empathy.

  • TheBBP

    1. God being mentioned on a bench is not in any way government making law to establish Christianity as the state religion. A government official acknowledging God is not law being passed onto the people.

    2. You do not have the right to not be offended.

  • john L

    If the VFW changed the wording to “Creator” instead of God they could put it back. I just viewed Tucker Carlson 5/5/2017 show and the woman that had this removed just said on Tucker that Creator doesn’t refer to God LoL

  • THIS IS NONSENSE BULLSHIT IF THEY DONT LIKE IT SUCK IT UP BUTTER CUP AND MOVE ON MY DAD IS A VIETNAM VET AND HE WOULD BE PISSED AS A HORNET WHEN HE READS THIS ILL WORSHIP MY GOD ANYWERE I WANT IF U DONT LIKE IT THEN GET THE HELL OUT OF MY COUNTRY SCUMBAGS