Judge Rules Illinois Law Banning Help for Homosexual Youth Doesn’t Apply to Pastors

CHICAGO — A federal judge appointed to the bench by then-President Bill Clinton has ruled that an Illinois law banning mental health providers from providing help for homosexual youth to overcome temptation does not apply to pastors.

In August 2015, Gov. Bruce Rauner signed into law the “Youth Mental Health Protection Act,” which makes it illegal for any “marriage and family therapist” or “professional counselor” to provide “sexual orientation change efforts” to youth under the age of 18.

“Being lesbian, gay, or bisexual is not a disease, disorder, illness, deficiency, or shortcoming,” the Act reads in part. “Under no circumstances shall a mental health provider engage in sexual orientation change efforts with a person under the age of 18.”

It also bans therapists and counselors involved in a “trade or commerce” from engaging in “any deception, fraud … in offering conversion therapy services in a manner that represents homosexuality as a mental disease, disorder or illness.”

As a result, five clergy members who provide counseling as a part of their pastoral roles, filed suit out of concern that the law could be applied to their work as they do teach that homosexual behavior, like all sin, is a human “disorder”—an outflowing of man’s nature, born unregenerate.

“We want to make sure that young people in particular have access to pastoral and biblical-based counsel if they want it, and that pastors are able to provide Bible-based counseling without any fear of legal repercussions,” plaintiff Steven Stultz told reporters.

“The Apostle Paul writes to those who had overcome many sins, including homosexuality, stating, ‘Such were some of you, but you were changed through God’s healing.’ I have personally witnessed many people change their sexual orientation through counseling and know it is possible,” he said. “The government is interfering into someone’s private decisions.”

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The ministers did not seek to change the law, but only to ensure that church leaders are exempt from the ban.

On Thursday, Judge Ronald Guzman dismissed the case, stating that the pastors’ “fears of prosecution are too remote to support standing.” He ruled that the work of clergy—although it involves counseling youth struggling with attraction to the same sex—cannot be considered a “trade or commerce.”

“The Act’s only penalties apply to mental health professionals or to those who deceptively advertise conversion therapy for commercial purpose. Plaintiffs fit neither mold,” he wrote. “Plaintiffs’ private, free religious counseling services are even further removed from commerce than, say, law and medicine.”

Even though the case was dismissed as being non-justiciable, the law firm Mauck & Baker, LLC, which had represented the counseling clergy in court, expressed satisfaction with the outcome.

“Freedom of speech is at the heart of this case; the unrestrained freedom for pastors to counsel people, and for people to obtain that counsel so they can make fully informed, wise decisions,” said attorney John Mauck in a statement. “The democrats in Springfield aimed to restrict reparative therapy even at the pastoral level because in 2016 they defeated an amendment to give pastors an explicit exemption from the act.”

The “ruling means men and women, girls and boys with unwanted same-sex attraction can receive reparative therapy help from pastors even though the law prevents them from obtaining it from licensed counselors,” he noted.


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  • Grace Kim Kwon

    A good American! Secular world that only upholds the rule of the laws is a totally weird world and is bent on becoming evil because they endorse sinners’ sinful wayward warped desires. Laws must be checked by the Holy Bible whether they are right or wrong. All children have rights to innocence and morality and the Biblical instrustions.

    • RWH

      Sorry, Grace. We don’t have a state church in the United States. Secondly, all church councilors I see in fundamentalist churches make it very clear that they are not certified by the professional organizations. As long as they’re honest in their advertisements, they can say anything that they want. Those who maintain professional certification must adhere to a particular code of conduct, and the so-called reparative therapy has been proven to be harmful, so much that courts have agreed.

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        West’s decadence hurts mankind especially its own children. USA is being lawless by prohibiting people teaching the liberating Biblical truth. Western hedonism and Christianity are incompatible.

        • RWH

          More unsupported generalizations. You’re just upset because we don’t see things the way that you do. We don’t want a state church. In every country where governments have had an established religion, the church has become a persecutor. Take Russia, for example. Prior to the 1917 revolution, church attendance on Sunday was required by law, districts were divided into parishes, and attendance was taken at church. As a result, those that didn’t belong to the state church were persecuted. All this didn’t stop the Bolshevik Revolution–which the Church blamed on the Jews.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            The Church has been the Western civilization’s only sane conscience. Churchless West is a perv. Maybe you guys should start the church attendance as everyone’s mandatory again to protect children.

          • johndoe

            The church is optional and not needed for a conscience or to lead a good life.

          • Amos Moses

            wow ….. you should get a comedy act together ………. comments like that on a christian forum can only be comedy ……….

          • johndoe

            Opinions vary

          • RWH

            Gosh. I hate to see what type of dictatorship would come about if people like you got control over things.

          • Jim Tully

            Christian Taliban.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Non-christian Americans bully everyone to support their mentally ill immorality. Mankind need the Holy Bible to beat the slave owners both then and now.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            The West is controlled by Sodomites today. You guys need the Church to stay sane. Other cultures without the Church are merely barbaric, but Christless Western culture is deadly Sodomic. All real parents teach their children normal morality except for secular Westerners and their mental slaves. You guys always needed the Church’s control to stay civilized.

          • RWH

            The Church’s control has always led to a type of dictatorship where people who disagree or dissent are persecuted harshly. A few years ago, a Baptist pastor in my county tried to get a youth center run by two women closed down because he thought that they were a bad influence. The women sued the man for slander and won. The pastor suddenly feels called of God to seek another church, leaving the present church in ruins through the bad publicity. However, Grace wants a society where this type of abusive person can run amuck, unopposed.

            Also, if the West is controlled by so-called Sodomites today, I would love to see some concrete proof. There are still several states where gays have no protection from discrimination. Yet, again, Grace sees conspiracies behind every rock. It’s so easy to talk the talk if one needs no proof. However, it’s harder to walk the walk by giving us some clear evidence that we can check out for ourselves.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Secular courts force homosexuality upon the people. Churches should step up for rescue and freedom, as usual.

          • Jerry Reiter

            No court has ever required anyone to have homosexual sex.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            They require people to serve gay weddings against God’s truth and a clear conscience. Ex-christian Western culture is a human rights abuser.

          • RWH

            Sorry, Grace. We don’t want churches legislating their creeds and doctrines on the population at large. I know of no court that is requiring anything on people. Courts, can, of course, require people to act civilly. It can, and it will, force a corporation to treat all people equally. If it sells a product to one person, it must sell the same product to another individual regardless of race, creed, sex, and a number of other classifications.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            White people should stop putting the colored people and sexually sinful people in the same category. It’s racism.

          • RWH

            Well, Grace. I hope that you don’t think that any of us will lose any sleep over your binary thinking. People from all groups come in all shapes and sizes. You can’t pigeonhole any of them. If you want to think gay=promiscuous}automatic sinner, that is your problem. All you can do is scream curses and condemnation from your lofty perch far, far away where you have no clue as to the reality of what goes on with the rank and file within the United States.

            But you go on with your concept of an ideal society where a dictatorial government and an intrusive church reign over us all. We may not be a perfect society, but we are one which lives in relative harmony. We have never had the problems that “Christian” Europe has had with its state churches–with extremist parties vying to take over. We have never had Nazi Germany, The Spanish Civil War, Communist revolutions, or anything closely similar. We may not agree, but we all reject these totalitarian ideas of yours in the name of a “Christian civilization.” And if you think that none of this makes sense, get yourself deprogrammed so that you can learn to think for yourself.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            The Western civilization was superior only because it had Christianity and the copies of the Holy Bible in the readable form for commoners – the quest after God’s Truth and all objective truths and God’s blessings upon the Chritendom. You guys would have been just another futile case of illiterate savages on Planet Earth if the Church did not educate you.

          • RWH

            You have the nerve to call us illiterate savages, and then you get all huffy and insulted that we are picking on you because we respond that you make no sense whatsoever. All you have done is to give us canned psychobabble. How do you know that people aren’t questing after God’s truth? And what makes you think that your particular spin on the truth is your idiosyncratic truth? We quest after the truth, but unfortunately for you, it is not your truth. To us, all you are is a lot of hot air with no light nor warmth.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You guys are not illiterate savages only because Biblical Christianity protected you. You guys come to one individual by a bunch and bully him or her; that’s something American fathers would never do. Leave people alone. Write independent comments.

          • RWH

            What a bunch of baloney. The majority of Christendom in the United States is not what you would consider “Biblical Christianity.” Concerning bullying, having the government come after you because you break the law is not bullying except in your mind.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are a universalist and do not know about the Christians in the USA. There are close to 100 million Christians in USA, although those with sound doctrines are lower. Some Western Christians are confused because they apply racial equality upon sexual sins, although skin colors have nothing to do with such sins. I wish white Americans would stop feeling sorry about yesteryears’ racism incidents but start feeling sorry over today’s sin of forcing their destructive Sodomic culture upon the world. Today, Americans are the least racist people on earth. The problem is being caused by American Sodomites right now.

          • Balerion

            You can read “The Handmaid’s Tale” to get a rough idea.

          • RWH

            Balerion. I read the book and saw the movie. The movie does not do justice to the book. I taught a course once on dystopian literature. 1984, Brave New World, and the Time Machine were some of the other works. Ray Bradbury’s The Martian Chronicles and Fahrenheit 451 also can fit into this category, but the ends of each give a glimmer of hope.

          • Chet

            All churches just like all people are not Christian merely due to their profession. The so-called “church” you cite would be equivalent to either today’s First Church Of What’s Happening Now or the First Confused Church Of Mother Earth Worshipping Nut Cases, which, btw, is the sole state sanctioned church of modern liberal government…

      • cadcoke5

        It is a church that demands that these professionals be put out of business, and these youth should not have any professional to turn to for help. Of course, it is a Godless church, whose views are being promoted. (note that atheism is considered a religion by the Supreme Court)

        It is the modern re-definition of the establishment clause, that allows this Orwellian double-speak.

        • RWH

          I’m not aware of any church or church group that is demanding this. If you have someone in mind, please state it here so that we may check it out. All of the churches (Evangelical/Fundamentalist) churches that I know of that provide counseling make it clear that this is a pastoral ministry and that their people are not credentialed by any recognized group.

          • cadcoke5

            Sorry if I was not clear enough. I am referring to Godless groups that promote these sorts of laws, though they would adamantly object to being referred to as a church.

      • Chet

        Let God be true and every man a liar, church state or no. God Almighty has the last word, always… “So then, every one of us shall give account of himself to God” Romans 14:12, Holy Bible…

    • johndoe

      Your holy book has nothing to do with our laws. 2000 year old book of fables. Nothing more.

      • bowie1

        In this case it is private pastoral counselling outside of the purvue of the secular law which has been ruled as permissible.

      • Amos Moses

        funny that you think so ………..LOL ………

        • johndoe

          Funny that you think so…LOL….

      • Amos Moses

        and you have no evidence to back it up ……..

        • johndoe

          Ooooo, neither do you

          • Amos Moses

            i do not say it is a fable ….. i say it is the truth ….. your claim is against the truth …… the truth does not need to be proved with evidence ……… it is self evident ……

          • johndoe

            Nope. Not going to take your word for it. The truth is not self evident.

          • Amos Moses

            and that is why your claim fails ……… you have no truth ….. not even any you have made up on your own ……….. and it is not my word you need to be concerned about ……….

          • johndoe

            Not concerned about anything

          • Amos Moses

            then you are in the wrong place ………

          • johndoe

            Nope

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        All mankind always need the Holy Bible for the truth and life. Pre-christian is barbaric and Post-christian is a Sodom. Israel is one exception.

        • johndoe

          Not at all

    • SFBruce

      Because freedom of conscience is guaranteed by the Constitution, any law based solely on the Bible would be unconstitutional. Freedom for only those who believe as you do isn’t freedom at all; it’s religious tyranny. Even if you were able to get past that huge philosophical barrier, there’s a practical one. I think it’s fair to say that you hold very, very conservative religious views, ones which many, if not a majority, of mainstream Christians would reject. And even among those who believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God, there’s widespread disagreement over the exact meaning of that inerrant word. Who gets to decide whose interpretation we’ll use?

      • RWH

        When I took a doctrine class at a Bible College years ago back in the early 1970s, the professor stated that there were four distinct interpretations of the meaning and process of the atonement at the cross. I can’t remember these now, but they all seemed to conflict with each other. He pointed out that even among the gospel songs that we sing, there are conflicting views. One, I believe, had some very shaky grounds in Scripture. I was told that the Royal Romans Road didn’t come about as a strategy for witnessing until the Finny revivals of the late 19th century. The four spiritual laws, which I wonder is even used today, was held in dispute by a lot of conservative theologians.

        • Grace Kim Kwon

          Liberals are chaff, not the grain.

          • RWH

            And you are a mindless robot who keeps on repeating the same canned speech over and over. A conversation with a Barbie doll is more stimulating.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Then leave people alone in peace. Stop bullying.

          • RWH

            And exactly who are you to tell me or anyone else to shut up? I take it that you should feel free to peddle all sorts of cockeyed ideas with impunity. Sorry. You state absurd stuff, and you will get called out on it.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You should stop imagining stuff. Write independent comments.

          • RWH

            More psychobabble. Typical behavior of a person belonging to a cult.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Fundamental Presbyterians are Bible-believing Christians. Neither the Western mainliners who endorse homosexuality or the universalists are Christian. Anything goes for them. The Holy Bible teaches holiness.

          • RWH

            Well, in the list of denominations in the United States, there is no church body called Fundamental Presbyterian. There are about five main competing groups among the Presbyterians. I don’t think that you know anything about the state of religion in America except for broad, unproven generalizations. Again, lots of hot air; no substance.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Ok, Independent Presbyterian.

          • RWH

            Grace, you’re shooting from the hip, and it ain’t working. There is no group called Independent Presbyterian.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Stop using dirty words. Keep some manners if you are old. There is such a denomination. You are universalist and do not know the Christian denominations. Besides, it’s not American denomination. Denominations differ according to nations even under the same names.

          • Balerion

            Then you stop trying to rewrite the laws of this country to conform to your outdated beliefs.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Biblical teaching is forever right for all mankind. USA became a perv by having a full-stomach and boredom all the time. God’s blessings have been wasted in the Western Christendom this century. Bad descendants. This time, Americans will enslave the Christians instead of black people. No thanks to rich perv Americans’ slavery. Never again. You guys always need Christianity to be humane and civilized with literacy.

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        Non-biblical West forces the world to uphold infanticide and sexual immorality. Truth and life is found only in the Holy Bible both then and now.

    • CrissCross

      Your Bible presents one of many many thousands of morality codes.
      Your Bible cannot be adopted as the sole source of morality guidance. To do so would be an act of establishing an official religion, which is specifically barred in and by the 1st amendment.
      Worse is the fact that the community known as “the Christians” have consistently proven incapable of agreeing on what exactly the Bible means. The entire Christian religion has splintered into around 42,000 separate denominations, each having broken away from some other denomination over differences of opinion on the interpretation of scripture and the implementation of doctrine.
      Each denomination adopts its own interpretation of scriptures, and implements its own doctrine.
      No two doctrines are a perfect match.
      Each doctrine results in a morality code unique to that specific denomination.
      Yes there are common aspects across multiple denominations, but each morality code presented, differs in its own way.

      Just on the subject of homosexuality, there are denominations which continue to insist that the government should be executing homosexuals, there are denominations that acknowledge & affirm the relationships of homosexuals & officiate over their marriages, and between those two positions there is every possible combination and permutation of alternative “moral” approaches towards homosexuality.

      So which interpretation of biblical morality would you have imposed on everyone?
      Which Christian morality code would you annoint superior to all others?

      And who the hell are you to make that decision, oh arrogant hound of hell?
      Perhaps you feel that all 42,000 denominations should engage in a fight to the death, with the lone surviving denomination at the end bestowed (by you) with authority to impose its own distinct morality code on all of humanity?

      The morality of others is not your concern.
      Back to your kennel, demon beast!

    • FHRITP

      Grace, are you aware that you are a fair weather Christian? All Christians are. You cherry pick the Biblical tenets you happen to agree with, and ignore the rest, or conveniently label them metaphorical. Is your moral compass so broken that without your religion to guide you, you’d have trouble determining right from wrong?

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        Modern Westerners prove that the ENTIRE Holy Bible has been completely right all along. Christian Westerners are good and moral and respectable and proper. Non-christian Westerners are immoral and support infanticide and blaspheme or cuss all the time. The differences are too clear. If you guys are what you claim to be, you’d never have blasphemed against Christianity or force the abnormal destructive immorality upon mankind. Immoral secular Western culture proved what it means to live without the Holy Bible.

        • FHRITP

          You dodged my question. Please answer it.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You have no rights to demand any answers from anyone here, coming by a fake name. Mankind has no wholesome morality apart from Christianity. All Non-christian systems have serious defects and abuses in following them faithfully. Christian American fathers taught mankind to play fair. Read the Holy Bible to find all the answers to life’s questions. Read the Gospel of John. Repent of your sin to get saved.

          • FHRITP

            And now you put words in my mouth. I did not “demand” anything. I asked. Again, I ask you to stop dodging my questions and answer them.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            I did. Read my comments. Western culture is a mere Sodom when it doesn’t have the Judeo-Christian values.

          • FHRITP

            No, you answered some other question. My question is, “Without your religion to guide you, would you have trouble determining right from wrong?”

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Yes, totally. Without the Holy Bible, no one can know that idol-worship is wrong. Idol-worship is believing in lies and killing human children and conducting all kinds of sexual immorality.

  • Michex

    Many adult “homosexuals” seek to change their homosexual behavior.

    So obviously there are homosexuals who think that homosexual behavior is not something desirable.

    The same with minors who have homosexual behavior.

    They may have become confused because they were molested and told “you are a homosexual” and the molested youngster began acting out homosexually.

    The law is wrong because something does not have to be a disease or infirmity to get therapy.

    People get marriage counselling, for example, to change things, but problems in a marriage are diseases or infirmities.

    The LGBTQ movement wants as many messed up kids engaging in homosexual acts as possible so that, first, they can prey on them, and second, so that when they become adults, they will vote for pro-homosexual issues.

    • Michael C

      The same with minors who have homosexual behavior and want to change

      I think you’re misunderstanding this issue. The vast majority of teens who are forced into this type of counselling do not engage in any sort of “behavior.”

      This type of counselling is not focused on changing a person’s behavior, it’s actually an attempt to alter a person’s sexual orientation.

      Religious and even professional counselling focusing on an individual’s potentially harmful behaviors remains 100% legal.

      These youngsters may have become confused because they were molested and told “you are a homosexual”, and the molested youngster began acting out homosexually.

      If a child is the victim of a crime, they should absolutely seek counselling and if confusion about their sexual orientation is a part of that counselling, that remains 100% legal.

      • Michex

        It’s not up to you or anyone to decide any of this.

        I can refute what you say, but the bottom line fact is that we don’t make counselling of any type illegal in this country.

        If an adult wants counselling, he can get it, and it’s not up to the government or you or I to tell him he can’t. Same with a minor – his or her parents decide.

        The entire issue is a case of the LGBTQ movement forcing its views on other and requiring “proof” that no other type of counselling has to provide.

        Thousands of homosexuals have gone through this sort of counselling and say they have made progress towards their goals. Others have not. That it where it stands.

        Leave adults and parents to make their own decision.

        • Michael C

          I can refute what you say, but the bottom line fact is that we don’t make counselling of any type illegal in this country.

          Um… Yeah, no. The state has the obligation to regulate medicine. There’s this whole licensing procedure that medical professionals must go through in order to practice medicine. Perhaps you’ve heard of this. The government relies heavily on professional medical associations to create these standards for medical practice. None of these large bodies of professionals see any upsides to “reparative therapy” and they all support the professional bans. You don’t really think that doctors can just do whatever they or their patients want, do you?

          If an adult wants counselling, he can get it, and it’s not up to the government or you or I to tell him he can’t. Same with a minor – his or her parents decide.

          In this case, adults and minors remain free to seek out this type of “counseling.” Religious counselors are free to offer this type of “counseling.” It’s just not called medicine because it isn’t medicine. Parents remain free to force this type of abuse on their gay children all they want.

          As for the efficacy of “reparative therapy,” there is zero medical or scientific evidence that any person has ever had any success in changing their sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual through any type of medical, therapeutic, or supernatural process. The only support for these types of “treatments” are anecdotal.

          …and, unfortunately, as we’ve seen over and over and over in the “ex-gay” world, people lie.

          • Michex

            Psychology is not medicine. No comparison to physical medicine.
            There is practically zero evidence for most psychological therapies.
            Counseling simply does not work that way.
            It is mostly talking and behavioral techniques.
            It’s a mish mash. It can be old-style or new age.
            We don’t ban various types of counseling in this country except for outright torture or sexual molestation.
            The LGBTQ effort is against all tradition and is ANTI-CHOICE.

          • Michael C

            Psychology is not medicine.

            If you don’t think this type of “treatment” is actually medicine, then a) we’re in agreement, and b) “reparative counselors” shouldn’t need to be licensed from the state in order to therape these children.

            If you don’t think “reparative therapy” is medicine, why do you care if licensed medical professionals are prohibited from calling it medicine?

          • Jenny Ondioline

            Psychology is not medicine???
            Of course it is!

          • Jason Todd

            I cannot believe anyone allowed you to say this baldfaced, atrocious lie unchallenged.

            The fact of the matter is that thousands of homosexuals have left the lifestyle. How they did it isn’t relevant. You calling all of these people liars is.

            Where is your proof? Provide it. And don’t think ignoring my pointed questions will help you. Reality is fixing to crash your party.

        • Michael C

          To add, the majority of “counselors” who offer this type of “treatment” have gone through it themselves. They are often men who claim to be “ex-gay” success stories. I would never feel comfortable leaving a child alone with a man who has chosen to live his life repressing his sexual self. The priest sex-scandals and people like Rev. Ryan J. Muehlhauser would make me incredibly leery of these types of men.

      • Jason Todd

        I’m sorry, Michael, but if a minor child is for any reason uncomfortable with the homosexual lifestyle and wants out, any mental health professional that refuses to help them in any way is in fact showing a callous disregard for the child’s mental and emotional well-being and should be relieved of their license to practice.

        Because let’s be honest: It’s all about the agenda, not the needs of a child.

        • Michael C

          if a minor child is for any reason uncomfortable with the homosexual lifestyle and wants out,…

          The “homosexual lifestyle?” The guys I know who were forced into this form of torture as teens didn’t even know a single other gay person, let alone were they engaged in any sort of “lifestyle.” Teens and preteens don’t have a “lifestyle.” They’re kids.

          You seem to be completely refusing to see the fact that this type of “therapy” isn’t about behavior. It’s not about abstaining from any sort of activities. It’s not about “lifestyles.”

          You really need to take the time to better understand this topic.

          • Jason Todd

            Did I stammer?

            Homosexuality is a behavior. Anyone who says different is ignorant or a liar.

            You compromise your credibility coming in here spewing that long ago discredited garbage.

        • FHRITP

          Why are you sorry?

  • InTheChurch

    Can a pastor give advise or counsel if the minor comes to the church looking for help? Are pastors restricted in their own church?

    • RWH

      Pastors can council anyone that they want to council. I know of non-Catholics who have gone to confession to relieve their conscience, knowing full well that the priest cannot disclose anything to the authorities no matter how terrible the act. Even the courts have ruled that the government cannot violate the sanctity of confession. The US Justice System has tried to eavesdrop on prisoners who talk to Protestant clergy and has been slapped down as well.

      • InTheChurch

        So then we have a problem with this law. Unless, I am reading this wrong.

        • RWH

          I’m not sure what you’re worrying about. Churches have the right to determine who is clergy, and a counselor would be considered as clergy. Courts have determined that the government cannot pry into what takes place as part of a church ministry. A counselor can say just about anything with impunity.

          • InTheChurch

            I know that. What I am saying is, this article is restricting clergy in talk to kids about what is a sin. When what setting is my question. In church, they can. But in what setting can’t they.

          • Michael C

            You are misunderstanding the information provided in this article. The government cannot tell churches what they can or cannot preach. Clergy are free to preach their beliefs in whatever setting they so choose. Religious counselors (clergy) are free to try to talk gay kids out of being gay in or out of the church.

            The state prohibition on reparative therapy applies to professionals, not clergy.

          • InTheChurch

            Got it, I reread it again

          • RWH

            This holds whether a session happens inside a church or outside of it. Clergy (and church workers as long as they are licensed/ordained). When I worked with Corrections when I was in Kansas years ago, I learned about court cases where prison authorities tried to wiretap rooms where clergy would meet with convicts. The courts slapped these authorities down, and taped material had to be destroyed and records expunged. The state doesn’t like to get into internal church matters.

  • NCOriolesFan

    Well Illinois is Obamaland so what would one expect from there.

  • tatoo

    Now clergy are free to guilt youth out and make them feel so miserable that they commit suicide.

    • Marshall P

      Aren’t you pro-choice? Don’t you believe every person should have control over his or her own body? If so, then you need to mind your own business. If someone chooses to end his own life, that is their choice. You have to respect other people’s choices.

  • Chet

    Very big of the judge to allow God’s Word to go forth as He intended it to do so…