IRS Investigators Raid Texas Office of Prosperity Preacher Benny Hinn

GRAPEVINE, Texas — Federal investigators raided the Texas office of prosperity preacher Benny Hinn after obtaining a warrant on Wednesday.

U.S. Postal Service inspectors and IRS criminal investigators were seen carrying boxes out of the Grapevine facility throughout the day.

“It looked like a big raid: people everywhere, police people everywhere out there, and just rushing in,” John Ebert, who works next door, also told local television station NBC Dallas-Fort Worth.

Special Agent Michael Moseley with IRS Criminal Investigations told WFAA that a tax evasion investigation was underway.

“Today, we are here on official business, we are conducting a search warrant on the premises, basically that’s all I can tell you today,” he said. “We are primarily investigating Title 26, which is tax evasion and general fraud against the government.”

Hinn’s representatives would not comment on the matter. Hinn is currently in France.

The popular televangelist and faith healer has been the subject of investigation on two other occasions. In 2007, a Senate Finance Committee examined the finances of several wealthy televangelists, including Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar, Paula White, Joyce Meyer, Eddie Long and Hinn.

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Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, specifically cast doubt on their possession of personal planes and opulent homes, but there was no declaration of wrongdoing when the investigation concluded in 2011.

Hinn, known for his “This Is Your Day” broadcast on TBN, as well as his popular healing crusades, was also investigated by the IRS in 2005.

According to the Dallas News, Hinn told reporters in 2009 that his salary exceeded $500,000, but declined to give an exact figure.

Ole Anthony, president of the nonprofit Trinity Foundation, which investigates religious fraud, told WFAA that he has tracked Hinn’s organization for two decades.

“There is more fraud in the name of God—not just in America, but in the world—than any other kind of fraud,” he lamented.

Hinn has offices in both California and Texas.

“The early Church was married to poverty, prisons and persecutions. Today, the Church is married to prosperity, personality and popularity,” the late preacher Leonard Ravenhill once stated.


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  • Amos Moses

    well this is interesting …. “Cruz: Seize money from drug lords to fund border wall” …. and now we have the IRK ….. sorry ….. IRS ….. going after Hinn … not my favorite person in the christian world …. but that is a lot of money to the IRS to balance the budget ….. is this a pattern? ……….. terrific quote from Ravenhill BTW …. Thanx for that …..

  • InTheChurch

    There are plenty of good pastors that have careers and great jobs. Not all pastors are stealing and lying.

    • Dj Ruccy

      Religion is a lie and a scam.

      • Mom of some

        Sometimes perhaps, but as Believers in the Power of God, we also believe in miracles and not putting Jesus in a box. He can do little where there is no Faith, because He is a gentleman.

        • Dj Ruccy

          Not to be rude but their is no god.

          • pz2b

            You can’t prove that and when you say i can’t prove there is a God I will say….. If you place all the parts to a watch on a table how long will it take for them to put them selves together. Oh, and where did the parts come from in the first place. The complexity of creation screams that there is someone greater than creation itself. Go for it…. put the watch parts on the table and wait!

          • InTheChurch

            Can I steal your analogy? great post

          • pz2b

            Of course!

          • Bezukhov

            Now prove that it was your version of this God responsible for that “watch” on the table.

          • pz2b

            I am not claiming anything about “my version of God”. I am asking a simple question using a watch as an example. Let me put it another way. Did some one or something greater than your computer create it or did it create itself? Your car….. create itself? Your house or apartment…..create itself? I have lived next to a vacant house for 7 years and then one day construction work began. I don’t believe you believe that a house could chose to create itself on that lot. Something more intelligent than the hose or the lot had to make a decisions to ‘create” a house on that lot. And then going back to the each analogy….where id the parts for the house come from?

          • Kevin

            You are talking to some people that do not believe in reality and for them your words are wasted. However, there are some , many that truly do believe in God they just have a scewed picture of Him and therefore are struggling to accept such a version. With some of the false theories in Christianity borrowed from paganism can you blame some for being confused. Two examples are the immortal soul supposedly given at conception and #2 the idea that the lost burn in a raging fire for endless ages. Add to that Calvinistic teachings that God predestines people to burn in hell for endless ages and who can blame people for struggling with a God that operates that way. John 3:16 is very clear that only those who believe in God have everlasting life. For those who insist that a person is conceived with an immortal soul please provide even one text that says that.

          • pz2b

            Why?

          • Kevin

            Because people who say they follow, teach and believe the Bible ought to be able to do show from the Bible what is truth and not just give person opinions or parrot what they hear others say. There are so many false theories.

          • Netizen_James

            Unless you’re using science to figure out the ‘big bang’, where are you getting the notion that there was ever ‘nothing’ for reality to have been created in? Could it not be the case that ‘reality’ has always existed, and didn’t need to be ‘created’? There is no ‘creation’, because ‘creation’ implies a ‘creator’. There is only reality. And it’s looking like our little expanding bubble of spacetime might not be the only one.

            Were you not aware of ‘Quantum fluctuation’ where subatomic particles are ‘popping’ in and out of existence ALL THE TIME? No magical sky-gods necessary.

          • Amos Moses

            all that only happens WITH God ….. not the absence of God ………

          • Kevin

            ” There is no reality” is exactly the mindless garb that atheism teaches. Walk in front of a moving truck and get flattened. While anyone with a mind understands this, insanity whispers in the ears of some.. ” he is not really flattened it just looks that way… or that may not really be a truck and he may not really be a person.” With that kind of thinking is it any wonder the world is in the trouble that it is in ?

          • Quantum fluctuations do not deal with the impossibility of infinite regresses of causes. If you want to believe that they do,have at it, but science itself depends on logical possibilities, not absurdities. An eternal universe is an absurdity. Good physicists have known this for at least a century. It’s the absurdity of an infinite universe, which led to theories like big bang cosmology. Quantum theory does not in any way negate that, and the multiverse is an unprovable assertion.

          • Dj Ruccy

            So you’re claiming that some deity came from NOWHERE created everything for no reason?
            So where did your god come from, who or what created it?

            Checkmate.

          • pz2b

            I can’t PROVE anything about God’s existence and you can’t “PROVE” He doesn’t exist. However, you didn’t speak at all to what I said about the complexity of the creation around you. Where did the intricate details of creation originate. The distance of the earth to the sun… to far away we freeze, too close we burn up as just one example. The human brain….. far more complex than any computer. So much in creation indicates that something/someone greater than creation itself had to have the idea. I don’t expect you to say anything beyond your “checkmate” statement so maybe at your intelligence level you have proved your point…… at least in your case, you might have evolved from nothing…. but even then, I doubt it!

          • Kevin

            Like wise, how did a universe come from absolutely nothing ? Where is the end of space and how can you explain no beginning and no end of time ? There are unexplainables either way you look at it. I choose to believe that an intelligent God created such a complex universe while you believe pond scum appeared out of no where as elements that appeared out of nowhere were tossed together randomly and brought forth what we have today. Nowhere does mass confusion come together on its own and create infinitely intricate order and design. Try that some day with a jar of a hundred tiny separate components of a clock. Shake the jar as long as you are able and see if you can create a moving working clock. Watch a wind go through a junk yard and wait for an army fighter plane to come together and fly away. It takes infinitely more faith with no evidence to believe in the theory of atheism than that of creation by a Creator. Believe as you choose but do not expect any thinking person to buy into that nonscense.

          • Strawman.

            Your argument appears more appropriately applied to materialism. It goes more like this:

            So you’re claiming that physical nature came from nowhereï, and for no reason, created everything?

            Theists, first off, do not claim that God “came out of nowhere,” but materialists DO claim that nature came into being for no purpose whatsoever. That’s the essential argument of Darwinian evolution, and it’s based in a religious assumotion; that a God would not have created nature as it is.

            Theists argue that God is the necessary uncaused cause to everything that exists, and further, that He has communicated to us, through our conscience, as well as through His written word; otherwise there is no basis for law and morality.

            Nature itself cannot and does not tell us what is good. We can only derive from nature what is, not what we ought to do. Nature is the “is” from which we cannot derive an “ought.”

            The only source of ought is a divine lawgiver. So the purpose for creation is the good.

            It’s a materialist existence without a moral lawgiver, that renders life meaningless and purposeless.

          • Amos Moses

            so is that a scientific or theological statement …………

          • Albert Bricker Jr

            Prove It! You made the statement now give us the proof of your statement.

          • Bobby

            you will find out just how real Christ is when you draw your last breath

          • Kevin

            That’s not when he will find that out. He will find that out at the second coming.

          • Bobby

            sorry Kevin but to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. He will face the great white throne judgement. The church the body of Christ faces the judgement seat of Christ where our debt is paid. He will go immediately to hell, then the lake of fire after that judgement unless he accepts the “finished” cross work.

          • Kevin

            So you believe that even the wicked have eternal life ? That is not what John 3:16 says. Please provide even one verse that says that we have an immortal soul. Eze. 18:20, Rev. 16:3, state such. Eccl. 9:5-6 For the living know that they shall die but the dead KNOW NOT ANYTHING neither have they anymore a reward, neither have a part in anything that is done under the sun.” Your belief in an immortal soul opens the door for witchcraft, sorcery and a supposed communication with the dead. In Gen. 2:7 Man BECOMES as soul. He is not given one but BECOMES one. The difference is significant. Why do you suppose that death is referred to as sleep if a person simply shed his earthly body like a snake sheds his skin and goes on living for eternity. When Jesus comes again that is when we are made immortal. See I Cor. 15:52 ” In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye at the last trump ( See I Thess. 4:16 for the trump of God) for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed, For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and THIS MORTAL SHALL HAVE PUT ON IMMORTALITIY, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
            To be absent from the body is the state the dead are in in their sleep like death. They are present in the Lord in that the next conscious moment they have is when Jesus comes again and they are raised and given immortality. Death is called a sleep for a reason. When people are in a deep sleep there are no thoughts. Eze. 18:4 ” The soul that sinneth, it SHALL DIE.” KJV The soul dies , Bobby. Rev. 16:3 “…every living SOUL DIED in the sea.” Matt. 10:28 both body and soul are destroyed in hell. The soul is not immortal.” The dead PRAISE NOT THE LORD, neither any that go down into silence.” Psalms 117:15 KJV. Surely if the dead are in heaven before the resurrection at the second coming they would be praising God. They praise not God because they are dead in the grave until Jesus comes again. This is why the second coming is so vitally important. To misunderstand one text and use that in an attempt to counter a whole host of texts that say the opposite (only a few of which I have listed) is not consistent Bible study. Most children realize when they grow up that the Easter bunny and Santa clauss was just a made up story. Strangely enough most of those same people continue to believe that when grandma dies she does immediately to heaven where she watches over her family her on earth. That is just as much false as is the Easter bunny and a whole lot more dangerous. This paves the way for sorcery.

          • Kevin

            So a person goes to hell and then the lake of fire and then is judged ? REALLY ? How can one go to hell without being judged first? and you say I AM confused . lol

          • Bobby

            the unfortunate part for many is we as Christians TRY to reason with them. We are not called to be successful, we are called to be faithful and preach the gospel if they listen and go further great that is the hope. If not we move on. I have and many I see in these posts continue to banter with people.

            1 Corinthians 2:14

            But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit
            of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them,
            because they are spiritually discerned.

          • Bobby

            when your heart stops, unfortunately you will see the horror of your misconception!

          • getstryker

            You be sure to let ‘Him’ know that when you meet Him someday soon!

          • Dj Ruccy

            Omagerd im so scared. Lololol.
            How are you so sure that the judeo Christian god is real vs other gods like Krishna, Zeus, Buddha etc.

          • getstryker

            You’re NOT actually interested in the answer and no amount of you claiming you are will elicit the usual back and forth response of ‘meaningless babble’ that you will attribute to the REAL explanation.

            You know what the ‘truth’ is and yet, you will simply ignore it now as you have done for a very long time. You feign ignorance and pose your childish questions.

            I don’t call you a fool – – I merely point out that the Almighty God of the Bible that you ignore does!

            He also had a comment about ‘pearls and swine’ – Matthew 7:6

            Remember this there ‘bright boy’:

            If I am right, you will live with the consequences of your rebellion.

            Despite your ‘bravado and your constant mocking’ of Christians, the reality is that ‘IF’ there is NO God,’ we’ will have lost nothing and will end up as ‘worm bait’ – just like you and everyone else no matter what any of us may have believed . . . however, if ‘we’ are right, then millions of other ‘true believers’ will spend eternity in Heaven. We have something to look forward to . . . what do you have? If you’re wrong – you and all your ilk will lose everything – there are no ‘parties’ in Hell . . . but hey – it’s all your choice! Live or die with it . . . 😉

          • Kevin

            Not to be rude but there ( correct spelling) most certainly is a God. ( correctly capitalized) There are plenty of gods that are false. One of them is the idol of personal opinion.

          • God is the necessary first cause of everything that began to exist. The only alternative is an absurd infinite regress of physical causes, and the current cosmology shows a beginning, bot endless causes. So essentially God must exist for anything to exist.

          • Kevin

            sure is

        • Amos Moses

          sorry ….. there is not one person in all of the bible that was saved of himself …… no doubt Christ is a gentleman …… but when it comes to salvation …… He does not need, heed or require our permission …… it is only the Fathers desire that brings us to the gift of faith and to Christ …… here is the thing …..lets say tomorrow the Rapture takes place ….. not saying it will …… just a suppose … do you think Christ is going to come to each person and say “hey, if you got the time, i will take you to heaven now, but if you are really busy i can come by at another time” ……… no ….. it will be a violent taking ….. we are His sheep and His sheepfold and our cooperation in the matter is not a matter of “being a gentleman” …..

      • InTheChurch

        You are correct, man made religion is a lie. But, Jesus is not. God is not and the Holy Spirit is not.

        • Netizen_James

          Jesus was a rebel rabbi executed by the Roman Occupiers for fomenting rebellion and for trashing the temple courtyard and disrupting commerce. Saul/Paul created the ‘Christ’ myth and the religion surrounding it. There is no evidence of a ‘holy’ spirit, or any other kind of ‘spirit’ as an actual independent entity. There’s ‘team spirit’ and ‘the spirit of giving’ and ‘a spirited debate’. But there is no evidence for any non-corporeal intelligent beings capable of communicating with human beings.

          • InTheChurch

            Jesus was not a rabbi, he did not go to “school” or to “seminary” like say a pharisee of his time or like Saul/Paul. He was called a Rabbi but he was not officially one. His mom was from the tribe that rabbis came from. But, Jesus was a carpenter. He was a rebel to the religious. And his message was above the head of the religious. They did not understand Christ. he was on a bigger level.
            Do you know who Richard Dawkins is? He has admitted that historians have proven that Jesus existed. If Richard does not argue the point, then anyone else should not either. Jesus lived and still lives.
            As for the Spirit, you don’t feel or know the Spirit because you don’t want to address your spiritual being or you spirituality. Even non christian gurus admit that there is a spirit inside of you. So when you address your spirituality then you will be able to be face to face with God, Jesus and God’s Holy Spirit. When this happens, He will answer all your questions, he will talk to you, you will feel his presence and he will enlighten you to the truth. Again, the option is yours.
            But, you ridicule those that have spirituality and have communicated with God. You are like the pharisees of Jesus’ time, not on the same level and only wishing you were on a high level.
            Have a great weekend.

          • Bobby

            you are in for a HORRIBLE surprise when your heart stops!

          • Amos Moses

            ummmmm ……… no ………. sorry ….. bunch of garbage there …………

    • Bezukhov

      Benny Hinn does not steal and lie. He works miracles. Google Benny Hinn Miraculously Removes Lump From Woman’s Purse

      • InTheChurch

        I know Benny Hinn and I know he is used by God. But, if this is true, then he is lying. He needs to be honest about his money.

        • Bezukhov

          That was a bit of satire from the Babylon Bee.

          • getstryker

            Yes, The Babylon Bee is Your Trusted Source For Christian News Satire.

        • Bobby

          He is a liar, a thief, and has robbed people for years! He will stand before Christ for using his name for filthy lucres sake!

          • InTheChurch

            he will have to stand before a judge if he broke a law.

          • Bobby

            and that judge will say away from me i never knew you

          • InTheChurch

            yes, that will happen but the one with a black robe will say, go to jail for x amount of time.

        • Not only has Hinn apparently been cheating people out of money, much of his teaching is not supported by scripture.

          Now I know there are a lot of people who say that the Lord uses him, and that may be true, or it may not.

          What I find as the evidence that the Lord uses him, is based solely on the assertion that the Lord heals people through him; and because of this, Hinn justifies his extravagant lifestyle.

          Well first off, I don’t find in scripture that alleged healing is the mark of a person used of God. It could be part of it, but alleged healing alone is not, and for good reason. Everything I’ve read on the matter suggests that the mark of a Christian is the fruit of the Spirit, not healing alone.

          Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, and self control. These are the fruit mentioned by Paul in Galatians 5.

          Jesus himself said that we must bear fruit, and he further stated that people coming to him alleging to have performed miracles, Will not necessarily enter the kingdom. And why? Because claims of performing miracles can as easily be works of deception, which come from the evil one.

          I think there is enough testimony regarding Hinn’s alleged healings, combined with his lavish lifestyle, to indicate that he is a fraud; in it for money, rather than out of obedience to God; and we ought to heed God’s word above anything he claims.

          Now consider this: scripture tells us that the ruling authorities at appointed by God for our good. Now that doesn’t imply that law enforcement doesn’t ever make a mistake, or can’t be corrupted; but when there’s been such a massive investigation into Hinn and others, and when members of Congress are involved, that indicates to me that the complaunts against these people are serious, credible,, widespread, and from multiple jurisdictions.

          • InTheChurch

            1 Corinthians 12 gives us a list of Spiritual Gifts that we all have. Some use them and some don’t. One of the gifts is the gift of healing. Make no mistake, God is healing and not the person. We use these gifts to help the church and the Fruits are also seen in us too. So God has given us fruits and gift of the Spirit.
            Benny needs to face these allegations no matter what. He is a man and a sinner, we all are. We decide if we will break laws or not. If Benny broke the law, he needs to answer for it. he also needs to face God if he sinned in breaking these laws.

          • Kevin

            God does not use false prophets to heal but Satan uses them to pull off counterfeit manifestations. Ye will know them, by their fruit. The theology and show boating that Hinn does is shallow and fake.

          • Bobby

            those gifts were only EVER for proof of the messengers and stopped once the church was established and WE do not nor ever will have them.

          • InTheChurch

            If you want to limit the holy spirit, be my guest, I will not. Those gifts are vital today like they were then.

          • Bobby

            Jesus is NOT in the healing business today and neither is Benny!

          • No, healing isn’t a business, it’s a ministry, and Jesus definitely heals. I have doubts that Benny Hinn does.

          • Bobby

            what a dunce it was a PHRASE!!!! it WAS what Jesus did, the 12 did and Paul for a short period. and NO Jesus is NOT healing today that was a SIGN and WONDER and MIRACLE used back then If you would simply STUDY your Bible correctly you would see that!

          • You mean like a figure of speech? Wow man, I had no idea (Sarc off). I do read my bible, and I fail to see where it is written that Jesus would stop healing and doing other miracles after a certain time period. Maybe you could enlighten me?

          • Kevin

            more name calling ? you need some help. B Ward is right. You really do not have much faith in Jesus do you ?

        • Kevin

          He is used of God to sift the church and to allow Satan to possess those who are seeking such a shallow and artificial experience.

          • InTheChurch

            I would not say anything against the Holy Spirit. What the Holy Spirit does is not shallow and artificial. The person might be but the HS.

          • Kevin

            I have said nothing against the Holy Spirit. However there is a counterfeit hs that Hinn knows very well. I speak against the counterfeit.

          • InTheChurch

            I will go with that.

          • Bobby

            charlatan Benny work with a spirit alright just not the holy spirit!

          • Bobby

            I wont keep bantering with you Kevin religious people as yourself that MIX doctrine taking old testament(law) and mixing it with grace are profoundly determined to stay in wrong doctrine. Good luck to ya and BTW last comment to you your soul DOES live forever in heaven, on earth if you are in the “kingdom” law program, or in the lake of fire if you rejected the finished cross work. read your Bible correctly!! don’t bother with a response I’m done with the tit for tat

          • Kevin

            You misunderstand the law. The 10 commandments are OT, NT and forever. Jesus did not die to give one a license to kill, steal, commit adultery or observe the pagan day of the sun rather than the 7th day Sabbath. If we are not religious people we are not Christians. Please share a verse that says the soul is immortal ? I do read my Bible correctly. Grace is not a license for sin and the Bible clearly says that the soul dies. Verses Eze. 18:20, Rev. 16:3. One day you will see this correctly. The lost do not experience eternal life. Read John 3:16 carefully. The wicked are destroyed in hell. They are not wrapped in asbestos. The fallacy of an eternally burning hell fire is a slander to the character of God and has led more people to the insane asylm than any other false doctrine. The Catholics invented purgatory to try to soften that blow. If people would just read the Bible for themselves without all their preconceived ideas. The cross provided Justification. Then we decide if we are going to allow grace to sanctify us or live on sinning. Jude 24 says that God is able to keep us from falling. Jesus said in John 14:15 “If ye love me keep my commandments. Do you love Jesus? Jesus created all things. That would include the 10 commandments. See John 1:1-3, 14. We will never experience heaven if we persist in disobedience.

          • Kevin

            no, Bobby it is you that are picking and choosing. You pretty much accept all of the 10 commandments accept the 4th. You accept “thou shalt not steal,” “thou shalt not commit adultery”, “Thou shalt not kill”. All is fine until “Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.” You do not know what the soul is. You think the soul and spirit are the same thing. The Bible says that soul that sins dies and that we all have sinned. Eze. 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, IT SHALL. Revelation 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead [man]; and every living SOUL DIED in the sea. Please provide chapter and verse that says that the soul is immortal. No opinions please just chapter and verse.

      • Amos Moses

        yep …. that was a good one …… all that pre-cancerous paper tainted by satan ….. LOL! …………

        • getstryker

          The Babylon Bee is Your Trusted Source For Christian News Satire.

      • Albert Bricker Jr

        A preacher friend of mine tells of the time He took his mother to see Benny Hinn for healing. They where on the front row of those who had come for healing. When the time came the lights went down. People came from the back and set up a new front row. The guy with a cast on his arm sitting in front of my friend was the usher that had seated them. The guy went up on the stage took off his cast after Benny done his thing and claimed he was heal.

        • Kevin

          Do not think that all healings are a man made hoax. One lady went through the healing line to prove that Hinn was a fraud. Guess what happened ? She dropped like a wet noodle like everyone else; they caught her on a pallet and the next person moved forward. There is often a supernatural power at work in these healing sessions however it is from down under.

      • Rayme Durham-Torain

        🤣😂😅🤣

      • Kevin

        Hinn ( supposedly a protestant) said that the greatest day of his life was the day he met the pope. That is pathetic. The greatest day of my life was the day I came to know and accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior.

    • Trilemma

      Any pastor that teaches his congregation that they are commanded to tithe to their church is stealing and lying.

      • Albert Bricker Jr

        Explain. I haven’t heard this before.

        • Trilemma

          The commands concerning the tithe along with hundreds of other commands in the Old Testament do not apply to Christians. The tithe was only agricultural products and was never money. Nobody gave a tenth of their income. Only Levites could receive the tithe. Pastors have changed the definition of the tithe for their own financial benefit.

          • Archangel Michael721

            Good to know you have read the bible 👍 Keep in mind that there were also widows, orphans of the brothers who were murder for preaching the gospel, and the Levites had to care for them which was a commandment to them by the Lord, Read my brothers read, The bible should be the only book we should read if you really want to find the Lord 👍

          • Amos Moses

            Gotta give you that one too ………….

          • Kevin

            balony– the tithe was money, livestock, produce, etc.. People that do not believe in tithing make money their idol and do not trust God to take care of them when they support the work of God with a tenth or more. Not saying that anyone ought to tithe to Hinn, Copeland and these other quacks.

          • Bobby

            tithing puts you under a curse!! READ YOUR BIBLE!

          • Kevin

            Boy are you confused. I do read my Bible. You have an issue with the law. Jesus said in John 14:15 if you love me keep my commandments. The commandments are laws and you think they are curses ? Do you think traffic laws are curses too. Where would God’s people be without laws to govern them ?

          • Kevin

            Show me chapter and verse where it says that tithing puts one under a curse.

          • Trilemma

            Leviticus 27:30, 32 define the tithe as a tenth of the harvest and a tenth of the livestock. There is no mention of money, income or anything else. In Numbers 18:24, God gave the tithe to the Levites only and never changed who gets the tithe.

          • Kevin

            The tithe was/is to be a tenth of your increase. If you get paid with chickens you give 1 chicken out of every 10. If you get paid with wheat you give 1 bushel out of every 10. If you get paid with money you give 1 dollar out of every 10. This is not complicated. Then there is offerings on top of that. The Israelites often gave last least 25% of their income to support the work. What most people give today to the work of the Lord is less than they spend on junk food each week. It is shameful.

          • Trilemma

            Please quote a Bible verse where someone was commanded to give 10% of their personal income. As defined in Leviticus 27:30-32, the tithe was a tenth of the harvest and a tenth of the live stock. Neither of these is income or increase. They are capital assets known as commodities. There is no income unless these commodities can be sold for a profit. If a farmer produces a harvest at a cost more than he can sell it for, then he loses money and has no income. But he still has to deliver a tenth to the Levites even though he had no income and no increase.

          • Kevin

            Deut.
            14:23 And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
            14:24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; [or] if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
            14:25 Then shalt thou turn [it] into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose: 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
            14:27 And the Levite that [is] within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee.
            14:28 At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay [it] up within thy gates: ”

            They were to tithe off the INCREASE whether it be oil, or seed, or grain or livestock. Often these things were to be sold for money and the money was to be then given.

          • Trilemma

            These verses are addressed to the Levites only and not to all the other Israelites. When the Levites collected the tithe, they would store it in their cities and eat it in their homes except for three items. All of the corn and all the wine and all the oil they received had to be taken to the temple and eaten by the Levites there. These three things were what the Levites serving at the temple ate while they served their term there as noted in Nehemiah 13:10-12. These three items are the whole tithes that Malachi 3:10 refer to. If the distance was too far for the Levites to transport these three things, they could sell them for money and take the money to Jerusalem and buy food to store at the temple. The Levites received no money from Israelites, only agricultural items.

          • Kevin

            Notice in the following that Jesus said that they ought to have tithed but they by the same token ignored the weightier matters. Matthew ” 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier [matters] of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

            “… THESE YE OUGHT TO HAVE DONE..”

          • Trilemma

            Notice the scribes and Pharisees are giving a tenth of the harvest from their herb garden. They were not giving 10% of their income nor were they giving money.

          • Kevin

            That was a source of income and often material goods equated with money. It seems that you are trying to evade giving income for tithe. Harvest and income are synonymous. They are all blessings bestowed upon us by God and we are to give the first fruits to support the mission/ministry.

          • Kevin

            Yikes ! Are you saying that the 10 commandments do not apply to Christians as well? Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not covet they neighbors house , wife, etc,. The Lord leads me to give 10% tithe ( or more) as well as offerings.

          • Bobby

            well said!

      • InTheChurch

        So what is the proper and biblical way?

        • Trilemma

          Give as God leads you to give.

        • Kevin

          Mal. chapter 4 says that 10% is the minimum but how few people really trust God with their finances.

          • InTheChurch

            Kevin, that was my point and I agree with you. The Bible tells us specifically how to tithe. We follow or not, it’s up to us.

        • Well if we’re going to be legalistic like the pharisies, 10%, or firstfruits will do. If we’re going to be scriptural, the poor widow is our example. It’s not measured in percentages, but in the condition of our heart towards God. The widow gave all she had to live on. I think God wants more from us than 10%. He wants a lifetime commitment to sacrificial giving. So the tithe was a taste of things to come. Jesus gave his life for us. What is that worth to us?

          • InTheChurch

            exactly, great post. I tell my jr high kids that working in the church, witnessing and inviting kids to church is like tithing. They need to give 10% of their time. 10 % of less Nintendo and internet and 10% of God’s work.

          • Well, yeah, I’m reading both the tithers and the non-tithers here, and in some ways they are both right. We ought to give at least 10%, and rather than that being a law, it is a minimum standard.

            But I appreciate those who say that Christians are not under the law of the tithe. True enough, but that doesn’t mean we’re off the hook. A life under grace is a life of sacrificial giving. We don’t earn salvation, but salvation leads to moral living in love and truth. You do well to teach that to your kids. I wish I had learned that a long time ago.

          • InTheChurch

            thank you and I agree with you. And let me take it further, those that don’t tithe, how do they pay for the electricity, insurance, water and gas bill for the church?

          • Bobby

            God loves a cheerful give give as you purpose in your heart. IF we find someone teaching SOUND doctrine RIGHTLY DIVIDED then sure we should support them but NOT as a standard of any Biblical law.

      • Bobby

        that is a fact!! No Levite priests around today!

      • Amos Moses

        well i gotta give you that one …..

      • Kevin

        Mal. 4 says that we are to tithe. Where would the church and mission be without funds to further the work ?

        • Bobby

          that’s LAW Kevin for Levite priests know any today?? you cannot mix law/prophecy with this dispensation grace/mystery Paul’s ONLY mention of this is give as you purpose in your heart God loves a cheerful giver no commandment to do so unless you like the law, then do you OWN anything? Jesus commanded sell all you own oops Ananias and Sapphira missed that part and got struck dead! thru grace by faith are we saved NO religious laws or hoops!

          • Kevin

            Yes like David I love the law of God. It is a transcript of His character. Psalms 119:96 “I have seen an end of all perfection: [but] thy commandment [is] exceeding broad.
            119:97 O HOW I LOVE THY LAW IT [is] my meditation all the day.
            119:98 Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies: for they [are] ever with me.
            119:99 I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies [are] my meditation.
            119:100 I understand more than the ancients, because I keep thy precepts.
            119:101 I have refrained my feet from every evil way, that I might keep thy word.

        • Trilemma

          Malachi 3 was written to Leviites. It commands the tithe be taken to the temple in Jerusalem. Is that where you take your tithe?

      • Bobby

        AMEN!!

      • Kevin

        Have you read the wonderful blessings that God pours those who trust Him and are faithful in tithing ?

    • Bobby

      most are either by being a charlatan or by being in wrong doctrine for today (tithing)

  • Amos Moses

    Benny Hinn Attempts Jedi Mind Trick On IRS Agents Investigating His Ministry

  • Georgia Landers

    they’ve been trying to find something against him for over 20 years, haven’t been able to yet, this time is not different…another attempt to take down the Church.

  • Judgment begins in the house of the Lord.

    I would not be surprised to see more of this in the near future.

  • Monorail Mayberry

    Benny Hinn is a false prophet.

    • Amos Moses

      here is some good news ….. his nephew has come to true faith in Christ ….. Costi Hinn was brought to true faith and salvation through his wife …… just this past year …… and he has renounced his affiliation with BHs ministry …….

      • Coach

        Justin Peters did an 8 part interview with Costi, amazing what God has done in his life.

        • Amos Moses

          yes … it was very good ………..

    • Bobby

      pretty much all you have to do is watch him and his Barnum and Bailey act for a few minutes and realize he’s a huckster! ala Marjoe Gortner, Amy Simple McPherson, Kathryn Kuhlman, Oral Roberts, Ken Hagin, Copeland, Creflo, Osteen, Rick Warren (pretty much the entire TBN crowd), Paula White, Kat Kerr, Todd Bentley, and the hits just keep on coming!!

  • Victoria Evans

    A new film will be showing the truth of this. Benny Hinn wants to stop you from seeing this. You can check it out at go fund me dot com slash canaan land

  • Charles

    ‘Nother Trump supporter, if and that’s a big IF he were a true christian, he would be speaking out against Orange man’s policies re: taking away meals on wheels for senior citizens, taking away benefits for the underprivleged. Even the Pope speaks out against him (Trump) and his policies. Why aren’t the so called Evangelicals who supported him speaking out against his policies? Hypocrites.

    • Coach

      Every pope who’s ever died is now in hell, along with the multitudes who followed their false gospel. Trump, Obama, and Bush are on their way to hell, though all 3 profess Christianity, none of them follow His Word.

      Only by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, as revealed in scripture can anyone escape the wrath to come.

      • Charles

        You’re next in line when you get there don’t forget to say hi to them

        • Coach

          I agree, I’m just as deserving of hell as they are, but God in His mercy redeemed me from the curse of the fall. There will be no communication in hell, only an eternal reminder of one’s sin and conscious fiery burning that never ceases.

          Charles, Jesus Christ is the only hope for anyone to escape God’s wrath. I don’t speak of hell to make some flippant statement, it’s a real place. You may put your shoes on in the morning, but a mortician may take them off tonight, are you ready to meet your Maker?

          • Charles

            Well don’t be to surprised when he says, “Matthew 7:21-23 Last verse 23″ I never knew you, Away from me , you evildoers”

          • Coach

            Charles, apart from the grace of God and the mercy shown toward me through the shed blood of Jesus Christ, that’s what I’d hear, but because of Christ, I live to hear Matthew 25:34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

            Charles, you need to repent and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ, you seem more determined to win an argument than to communicate truth. A true disciple of Christ doesn’t flippantly curse another believer to hell, but I’m convinced that you don’t profess Christianity, but rather attempt to use the Bible against God’s people. The “judge not” camp.

            You are puffed up with pride, which will destroy your soul unless you repent and believe on Christ, not Charles.

            1 John 3:13 Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. 15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

          • Coach

            Only 2 types of people condemn believers to hell, false converts and scoffers, who seek to misapply the Word against believers. Both of them will be condemned at the judgement if they don’t repent and believe the gospel. Which one are you?

          • Charles

            So read the first verse of Matthew 7: 21 “Not everyone who says to me, Lord Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven

          • Coach

            I’m very familiar with Matthew 7, as it points out that faith alone in Christ saves, people will naturally place confidence in their works, especially what they deem as ” serving the Lord”, how many pastors will be in hell, workers of iniquity, who believe they can have their favorite sin and Christ too.

            The way that leads to life is narrow as the Word of God declares “the just shall live by faith” as stated in Jude, that faith is handed down by God.
            Jude 3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.

            Again, you stated I was next in line to go to hell and to say hi to those who’ve perished, showing yourself to be a mocker.

            Charles, this is not a joke, you need to repent and put your faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. Jesus Christ will judge the world in righteousness and all who’s names are not written in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire for an eternity, Satan has you deceived so much that you think you can misapply God’s Word against His elect.

      • Laurence Charles Ringo

        Hey,”Coach”…I thought our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ was/will be the Judge of who will or won’t be in Hell? When did Almighty God hire YOU?

        • Coach

          Yes, He is the final judge, as many who may appear to be saved are actually lost. As it says in scripture “the Lord knows them that are His”
          As for being hired, God saved me and put me to work in His vineyMatthew 20:1 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard.

          Understand the popes are people who rule over the apostate Roman Pseudo-church, making all who have died in that false system, citizens of the lake of fire. As for the 3 presidents mentioned, I simply discern the fruit of their lives, as Jesus said, you will know them by their fruits. Bush believes in universal salvation and believes all paths lead to heaven. Obama has clearly attacked every aspect of Christianity, proving, he serves a false christ, and Trump believes in a Christ-less Christianity, even claimed becoming president would save his soul.

          Now if anyone come to faith in the true Christ of scripture, they will be saved, but there salvation will be evident. Those who practice sin are not born of God’s Spirit.

          1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

        • Bobby

          don’t be ignorant Ringo read scripture he didn’t profess to be “hired” by Christ

          • Laurence Charles Ringo

            What the what are you talking about, Bobby?? Clarify…

      • Kevin

        no one is in hell…yet. Read Revelation chapter 20 especially verses 5-10

        • Coach

          Kevin, I see the parable of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16.
          Luke 16:23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

          This wouldn’t make sense if there was no one in torment yet, it would seem to contradict.

          Revelation 20:5-10 points to the millennial kingdom. Kevin, if nobody’s in hell, then where are they?

          I also see where the rich man was in hades, and have heard it suggested that hades is the holding place until the judgement.
          John 5:28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

          Semper Reformanda

          • Kevin

            Hades is indeed the holding place for the dead until Jesus comes and resurrects them. The definition for “hades” in the original language is ” the grave.” The hour that the dead here the voice of God and are raised is when Jesus comes the second time. I Thess 4:16-18. Jesus did not use the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus to create doctrine on the timing of hell anymore than He was teaching about those in hell and those in heaven communicating with each other or that the righteous would dip their fingers in water and cool the tongues of the wicked. Amazingly some people insist that this is not a parable.

        • Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
          By your reckoning hell exists only during the millenium. That doesn’t seem right.

      • Bobby

        nice job coach TRUTH

  • Coach

    In the midst of these children of Satan, I thank God that He saw fit to save Costi Hinn, nephew of Benny, who now condemns such wickedness and walks with Jesus Christ.

    Please avoid Benny Hinn, Creflo Dollar, Carl Lentz, any female pastrix, Bill Johnson, etc. For the sake of your eternal soul, read what the Bible says and listen to those who love and follow Christ no matter the cost, in obedience o His Word.

    Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

    • Netizen_James

      Your misogyny is not serving Jesus.
      There are plenty of Godly female preachers of The Word, who have brought many worshipers into The Body. You dismiss and decry them simply because they’re female? That’s nonsense.

      • Coach

        First off, it’s a violation of God’s Word for a female to be a pastor. That’s the role for a godly man to fulfill. For a woman to dismiss God’s Word because she unbiblically qualifies herself to be a pastor shows a spirit of pride.

        1 Timothy 2:11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.

        2nd: I said to avoid the people listed and female pastors, as in listening to and following them, based on scripture, not a hatred for women. I suggest you retract accusing a believer of misogyny and judge with righteous judgement.

        3rd: God Himself brings people into the kingdom.

        John 6:39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

        Please reconsider your previous response in light of scripture.

        • Amos Moses

          good one ………

      • Amos Moses

        Christ, Paul, Timothy, Titus, and Peter ….. did not think that nor preach that …………

      • Kevin

        Jesus set the pattern in both Old and New Testaments. The males were priests in the OT and pastors/elders in the NT. Feminism has corrupted society.

      • You wrote, “There are plenty of Godly female preachers of The Word, who have brought many worshipers into The Body”. The way you phrase that makes this particular Biblical example come to mind: “Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.” (Not the correct body, in case you missed it.)

  • Andy Ramos

    unlike so many, we do not[ peddle] the word of GOD for[ profit] on the contrary, in CHRIST we speak before GOD with sincerity, as those sent from GOD…[2 COR 2:17 AMEN!!!

  • The IRS envies Hinn because while they must apply force to receive money, Mr Hinn receives money merely by transforming himself into one of the apostles of Christ.

    • Wow! and you can say with a streight face that he is as an apostle of Christ? Really? Have you ever read the Gospels?

      Did Jesus say:

      Matthew 6:19 ¶Lay up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

      Matthew 6:20 But do not lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and you can’t buy stuff.

      But did he say:

      Matthew 19:23 ¶Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

      Matthew 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

      Matthew 27:57 ¶When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus’ disciple:

      Mark 10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

      And did he not say:

      Matthew 16:24 ¶Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

      Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

      • So there you go: you don’t really know your Bible:
        2 Corinthians 11:13-15
        For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
        And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
        Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

        • Wow again! A fundamentalist who denies even what the Bible says when it conflicts with his personal views. Interesting. Exactly which verse I posted was a lie?

          I didn’t claim to be an apostle. Exactly which verse in my post makes your response even relevant to what I wrote?

          • Dave correctly pointed out that Hinn is one of those false apostles. What’s your beef with that?

          • His statement was ambiguous. It could have meant he was happy that Hinn was making the IRS envious, which is the way I took it.

            His response to me was to simply quote another verse without any analysis as to how it relates to the core problem of a lack of education. And, by “education,” I mean theological and objective education.

          • Well I understood what he meant right away. Sarcasm with reference to actual scripture.

          • Well, good. But, of course, you’ve been nurtured to think only one way in matters of theology, which is why you understood the meaning right away.

          • Truly, if I was thinking only one way, as in literally, I wouldn’t have perceived that it was sarcasm.

            Now please stop bearing false witness against people you don’ t know.

          • Truly, if I was thinking only one way, as in literally, I wouldn’t have perceived that it was sarcasm.

            Sir, it is you who is grounded strictly in Christian theology, not me. In order to believe the Bible is the word of a benevolent god, then you have to blind yourself to contradictions, logical fallacies, and irrational stories. I doubt that you would be capable of objective thought about the Bible.

            But, LOL! “bearing false witness.” Let me ask you as a matter of curiosity. Did you vote for Trump? I see by the stats that most fundamentalists went for Trump, which would make them among the greatest hypocrites in the U.S. He breaks that cardinal sin every day. He’s as bad as the prosperity preachers, and continues to gather wealth by profiteering from the Oval Office.

          • Bobby

            you have no clue of anything regarding the Bible. You’re too smart for your own good.

          • you have no clue of anything regarding the Bible. You’re too smart for your own good.

            I see that you falsely assume too much about me. As I’m mentioned before, I was raised to be a christian fundamentalist. Even up through high school I was taking Bible classes (yes, they had those in my high school, but no mention whatsoever of other religions or biological evolution even in biology class.).

            That was the nurturing I had and it is why I was so ignorant about science and the real world until some time after I graduated. So, I’m happy to engage you in a fruitless debate about biblical knowledge if you like, but I’m more interested in critical thinking (logical fallacies in particular). And, by the way, I studied the origin and evolution of Christianity as well.).

            Specifically, I would like to know how you reconcile concepts like; a god that is omniscient, but often becomes angry, jealous, and changes its mind, and the fact that there appears to be huge contradictions between the NT and the OT,

            For example, the apparent contradiction between John 3:16 and the acts of Yahweh et al, in the OT (re: ordering genocide in Canaan and killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people throughout the OT).

          • Bobby

            good reply!

          • Bobby

            brother you can argue with the religious, and pharisee type minded people. Hobbiesian would rather be right and astute than read the Bible correctly.
            Most so called intellectual scholars and contextual critics take a world view point with an OPEN MIND, rather than make God’s word(s) in the Bible the FINAL authority!

          • Bobby

            you’re ridiculous

          • My goodness! What a knock down logical argument. That one floored me!

            Do you have any more such profound in-depth analyses?

          • You failed to understand that I was pointing out that Mr Hinn is a false apostle in the terms used in scripture. Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures?
            Much as you missed my point, I should admit that in exchange I didn’t read your full response (it was cut), neither did I notice your misquote of Matthew 6:19 and 20. Maybe next time 🙂

          • As I said to B Ward, the statement was highly ambiguous. He pointed out which meaning you meant.

            Quoting my reply to Ward:

            His statement was ambiguous. It could have meant he was happy that Hinn was making the IRS envious, which is the way I took it.

            His response to me was to simply quote another verse without any analysis as to how it relates to the core problem of a lack of education. And, by “education,” I mean theological and objective education.

          • There is no ambiguity if you know the scripture.

          • Yes, for those who are fundamentalists and think that way all the time. But to read with critical analysis and an open mind, one can see not only ambiguity but often, in scripture, serious, logical contradictions.

          • Bobby

            the Bible is to be taken and read, 1) literally, 2) comparing spiritual with spiritual(scripture with scripture) 3) DISPENSATIONALLY

          • Bobby

            no it’s just wrong doctrine for this side of the cross!

          • Interesting.

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    Preachers should not be trapped by women or money or alcohol. All Christian men, for that matter.

  • judy w

    SHAKE THE HOUSE! May God reveal all truth and bring justice and judgment to those who use the gospel for gain.

  • Archangel Michael721

    1 down thousands to go, these so call preachers are nothing but thiefs, the word, the gospel was not meant for business, which all these thief do, hope they repent and straighten their ways now that there is time, and the followers should read the bible more, they will discover the truth

  • peanut butter

    These preachers don’t even teach the gospel of Jesus Christ. Prosperity preachers are out for one thing: their prosperity.

  • “There is more fraud in the name of God—not just in America, but in the world—than any other kind of fraud,”

    How can you tell your favorite preacher is a fraud? Three ways: He is wealthy and practices his con-trade under the label: Prosperity preaching; His “healings” take place only in the big tent (does not venture into the children’s hospitals and wards to “heal” them); He lives in opulence–personal jets, yachts, huge homes (often several).

    If a so-called faith healer were to walk through hospitals, healing all the children of their maladies—I mean curing all diseases, causing children with severed limbs to grow new ones, and reshaping deformed bodies, then I would not only believe, but I would strive to be that healer’s greatest advocate and follower.

    But, of course, those who claim to be the instrument through which a god heals, only perform in the big-tent or mega church where, through deception, they can pick the paltry pockets of pious pigeons.

    They are frauds, con-men/women who con the rent money out of the lonely, the poor, the sick, and the ignorant, cheating them out of what little they might have in order to enrich themselves.

    • Johndoe

      Why do you care? The people they con are CHRISTIANS, and you detest Christians. You should be really happy that Christians are being cheated.

      You don’t fool anyone. You couldn’t care less about these people’s money.

      • Obviously you haven’t followed my responses. I made the point quite clear that I think most Christians are very good people. It is the fundamentalists who are being led by, and bled from, their theological noses.

        My core values I spell out at thebenevolentthou dot com. I believe that organized religion is the greatest deterrent to world peace and brotherhood, bolstering our natural impulse to xenophobia. It then feeds on that xenophobia. It’s a “symbiotic” system.

        While most religions and ancient sages tell us to do unto others as we would have them do unto us (i.e., have universal empathy and all inclusive benevolent reciprocity), most of these same organizations then erect strong walls of exclusive dogma that block the ONLY path to brotherhood–The Golden Rule.

        It is unfortunate that so many people (even many non believers), while agreeing with the tenet, ignore it in favor of fear and protection in tribalization.

        As for scam artists scamming money from the poor, sick and pious, I have nothing but disdain. Unlike many (most?) conservatives, I do not believe that the condition of the vast majority of the poor is because they want to be poor and sponge off the taxpayer.

        Human beings are products of their genetic heritage and environmental influences. Both genetics and environmental influences make the person.

        Genetically, many of us are born with abilities to flourish in society and many are not. Many receive poor nurturing in their childhood and many receive good nurturing. But these are preconditions.

        Nurturing and environment determine which preconditions will manifest. Poverty and/or poor nurturing has psychological effects on children. A poorly nurtured child in a poverty setting will often pass it on to his children, especially if he is among the working poor and therefore lacks the opportunities (mainly financial) to acquire the education necessary to advance economically. Or, perhaps he doesn’t have the mental capacity or the money to purchase a higher education.

        And, it works both ways, of course. If a child grows up in a home where greed and opulence are the main values, then it is most likely he will be taking advantage of others and will be completely indifferent (or disdainful) of people in poverty–most often shrugging them off as lazy or “stupid.”

        • Kevin

          You talk a lot of opinion and philosophy and scant little actual Bible.

          • I’ve read and researched much of the Bible. I was raised to be a de facto fundamentalist. If you are truly curious, you can read my personal evolution at Maxfurr dot com/rationalwriter-blog.html.

          • I had a quick read, and here’s your error: “Having been raised a Bible believing, saved-by-perseverance Methodist”. You cannot be saved by works. Ephesians 2:8-9
            For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
            Not of works, lest any man should boast.
            Skirting faith and attempting to save yourself is the broad way that leads to destruction. On that broad way you have no need for Christ. You can only enter the strait gate by faith.

          • Kevin

            Faith without works is dead James 2:20

          • There is no lack of works in the above profession. There is a lack of faith

            Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

          • Kevin

            James does not have a lack of faith and we cannot pick and choose with God’s Word. Saving faith is ALWAYS accompanied by works or else it is not true faith. James 2:19 is gospel and counters the cheap grace counterfeit faith that is prevelant in the churches today. Romans 4:5 must be taken in context with other verses. Romans 4:5 is talking about Justification is like true faith, ….if it is not accompanied by sanctification ( works) it is not really justification at all but presumption. Romans 4:5 says ” now unto him that beleiveth on him”. True “belief” like true faith and true justification ALWAYS leads to true actions. Abraham exercised his faith by being willing to offer up his son. James and Paul are not arguing here. They are not contradicting each other. James is countering the counterfeit cheap grace “belief.” James 2:19-20 says that the devils believe and tremble. Paul in Romans is countering the error of righteousness by works. Each is opposing opposite pitfalls. This is the beauty of Scripture. It covers all the bases.

          • You like taking verses in context? Great! James opens with salvation by grace through faith:
            James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
            Of his own will: grace; the word of truth: preaching and faith. It’s a good and perfect gift. There is no uncertainty: no variableness, not a shadow of turning. That’s eternal security before any works.
            The distinctions of faith you are searching for (saving, vs non-saving, vs half-saving) do not exist in scripture. You did not learn them there. The only vain faith is if Chist is not raised.
            That all said, and as captivated as I am by this flight into faith vs works, you are completely missing the point of my post. The profession I am identifying being full of works is the Methodism of “HobbesianWorld”. If you MUST do works to be saved (truly saved, in your terms), then you are contemplating an exchange, or a deposit and payments scheme, and not a gift. It’s a very odd insinuation to make against God about his salvation.

          • Kevin

            I think you are reading past me and not listening. We are NOT saved by works but there is NO faith without works. James says that faith without works is dead. I do not understand why we need to argue on such a simple and clear topic. What do you think James meant when he said that “faith without works is dead.” ? That is as clear as it gets. Faith does not negate works it is given evidence by works. Works are a good thing if they are motivated by love. You agree with this don’t you ?

            John and Charles Wesley were two of the greatest reformers of the reformation. They brought forth holy living through a sanctified life. That was grace through faith at work.

          • You say there is no faith without works BUT James says that such faith is dead. It’s not a thing that does not exist: it is a DEAD thing.

          • You cannot add to God’s word. You are speaking in the words which man’s wisdom teaches. God speaks of faith and grace almost always without any qualifier. Where there are qualifiers, they are: manifold grace; the true grace; for faith: common faith, holy faith. You cannot speak in terms like “saving faith”, “true faith”, “cheap
            grace” , “true actions” and “true justification” and speak with
            authority.
            Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

          • I had a quick read, and here’s your error: “Having been raised a Bible believing, saved-by-perseverance Methodist”. You cannot be saved by works. Ephesians 2:8-9

            “Wherefore, that we are justified by faith, only, is a most wholesome doctrine and very full of comfort” – The Book of Discipline of the United Methodist Church, 1972 Edition, p. 55.

            In other words, my friend, Methodists are saved-by-perseverance–by faith and faith alone.

            To be more clear, perseverance is not defined as “works.” It is holding steadfastly to the faith.

            It is irrelevant what other denominations believe, this is what I was taught to believe. So, what is your next argument?

          • To “persevere” is to maintain a course of action, to work. To “persevere in faith” is to transform faith from faith into a work. This is a logical error. Most don’t notice, and it never bothers them, and they are gladly saved by faith. For some it is the seed of doubt, and the opportunity for deceitful unbelief by which a man believes that his own work will save him, rather than that the Jesus is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him.

          • Interesting interpretation. It could be the case, however, that a person strongly believes in your god, but simply never harms anyone. That, too, is persevering in the life one has chosen.

            This reminds me. Exactly what happens to mentally ill when they die? When the books of the OT were written (and even after the books of the NT were written) it was believed by the Church that mental illness was actually demonic possession. Some people still believe it.

            Was the Bible and the Church wrong about that or do those poor folks just get tossed into hell at death?

          • Rather than that nebulous term “mentally ill”, which covers everyone from people with insomnia, axe murderers via complete jerks to innocent folks with broken minds, let’s go for a hard practical example: Alzheimers: when you lose your mind by reason of this degenerative disease, are you yet saved by the faith that you had before you lost your senses? Yes. You are, because you did not save yourself by faith: God saves by grace, through faith – by the blood of Christ.

          • Actually insomnia is not always due to a mental illness and nor is it, in itself, a mental illness. But, of course, you know exactly what I mean, didn’t you? Nor was I presenting examples of people with healthy minds and then developed a mental illness.

            But since you may be having trouble understanding the argument, suppose a person has a mental disorder (is that better) from childhood–such as having been repeatedly abused over years–and is effected to the point of abusing others. Such a person would be virtually unable to understand reason or religious inculcation. He dies. What then?

            Also, a person born with no ability to understand right from wrong. No faith and “no works.” He dies. What then?

            Suppose a mentally healthy person goes all his life doing good and being kind, adhering to the Golden Rule, but is a buddhist or even an atheist. He did virtually nothing but good “works,” but simply did not believe in the divinity of Jesus. Is that a crime punishable by eternal torture?

          • 1. Mental disorder due to abuse, an abuser himself: I have almost no hope for this person: hell.
            2. Never understanding right and wrong: if he could not break law, he could not sin and be condemned for it – he can be okay: heaven
            3. Atheist moralist: his good works cannot save him from his very few sins: hell.

            1. Not understanding: Daniel 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
            2. No law breaking: Romans 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
            3. False religion: Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

          • 1. Mental disorder due to abuse, an abuser himself: I have almost no hope for this person: hell.
            2. Never understanding right and wrong: if he could not break law, he could not sin and be condemned for it – he can be okay: heaven
            3. Atheist moralist: his good works cannot save him from his very few sins: hell.

            1. So, it is your view that a child in a very abusive family, going through a mental hell and suffers mental damage to the extent that he is virtually programmed to prey on other children; after he dies your “loving” god would torture him for all eternity?

            And you don’t see an ethical problem with this–that he would be punished with Hell for something he could not help?

            2. If one does not know right from wrong, then it is inevitable that he would do wrong in his life, and probably more than good because, according to your god, indulging in pleasures of the flesh–for pleasure’s sake–is a sin. So it is a given that he would do that which is pleasurable to him, especially mastu*bation, which is pleasurable to the extreme (I’m not sure this site would tolerate the word fully spelled out). How could he avoid it if he didn’t know it was wrong?

            So, it appears that he will be dumped into eternal torture as well.

            3. Needs elaboration.

            Well, this has been most interesting. I certainly appreciate your honesty in presenting the depth of your belief and disregard of science (neurology and psychology in particular).

            Lastly, if homosexuality is wrong and punishable by eternal Hell, then what should we do with–and what will ultimately happen to–intersexuals whose gender has been surgically selected just after birth, but it turns out that the wrong selection was made? Or perhaps because they were born intersexual, they were already doomed to Hell?

          • And little by little you inch towards your actual topic of interest: sex and abuse. If a person prefers perverted sex, then there is one way that he got like this. Not innocently, but deliberately. It’s not a mystery.
            Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
            They did not choose inconvenient ways: they chose to reject God. They’re not going to hell for being abusive perverts. They are being perverts because they are going to hell.

          • And little by little you inch towards your actual topic of interest: sex and abuse. If a person prefers perverted sex, then there is one way that he got like this. Not innocently, but deliberately.

            I’m giving you examples of the worse sort of crime, mental abuse (which most often is product of sex abuse. It is astonishing that anyone would dismiss this as being the fault of the victim. I’m guessing that you, as many conservatives do, consider that anyone who is poor, it’s because they want to be.

            To “prove” your point, you point to the Bible. I’m sorry that you haven’t had any formal training in critical thinking, because you would be able to see the logical fallacy of your arguments.

            A child does not choose which family he will be born into nor can he choose parents who will give him proper nurturing. And

            We may as well hang it up. It reminds my of a quote from the character, House; “If you could reason with a fundamentalist, there would be no fundamentalists.”

            It’s been a very fascinating excursion into the vault of you mind. Thank you.

          • Abuse leads to death, and you find it unfair.
            Ecclesiastes 7:26 And I find more bitter than death the woman, whose heart is snares and nets, and her hands as bands: whoso pleaseth God shall escape from her; but the sinner shall be taken by her.

            For me too, it has been illuminating trying to reason with a fundamentalist. (I’m also amused that you want me to be qualified by the priests of your religion.)

          • Bobby

            you’ll NEVER persuade a guy like this he is a contextual critic, philosopher and has only man centered beliefs rather than God’s word as the final authority.

        • Bobby

          all your man centered viewpoints are ridiculous. God had the bible written and preserved to be understood clearly without all your outside influences.
          This isn’t about a so called golden rule, nor about nurturing or genetic heritage etc You spew hogwash plain and simple! A 5 year old can understand the bible by just READING and allowing it to say what it says and mean what it means staying in context , reading literally, comprising spiritual with spiritual and staying in the correct DISPENSATION. Stop TRYING to be so philosophical and intelligent. Salvation is simple buddie. Grace through faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ!

          • A 5 year old can understand the bible by just READING . . .

            Now that would be a challenge indeed. Most 5 year olds can’t even read and those who can do not fluently fluently.

            God had the bible written and preserved to be understood clearly without all your outside influences.

            Curious that he had to use ghost writers to write many stories over many centuries and then have the King James commission read them and decide which stories to include, the culmination of which is your “Bible.” Oh, and they tortured and killed anyone who dared to believe otherwise.

            But I have a question of logic for you, prefaced by a logical argument:

            Since the vast majority of believers in ANY religion believe theirs because it was what they’d been taught from tot-hood to believe by their parents and further nurtured by a society that generally believed as their parents, then it follows that, most often, what one believes to be the theological truth is a function of happenstance of birth rather than a function of objective truth.

            Had you and I happened to have been born in Saudi Arabia to a Wahhabi family, we would have been taught to believe that radically strict religion of Islam. Hence, we would believe that Christianity is Haram (forbidden and false), and that Christians are infidels (often referred to as Atheists).

            This is the logic that I realized independently of any such teachings after having been proselytizing by Mormons–the indisputable that most often one’s religion is what one was taught to believe.

            Do you disagree with this? Why or why not?

            Keep in mind, of course, that those born to radical Islam would certainly disagree with this logic because they “KNOW” that what they were taught to believe is the Truth–just as you and I were taught about Christianity.

    • Kevin

      Isa. 8:20 is how you know. Miracles can be counterfeited and faked but if he speaks not according to God’s Word there is NO light in him.

      • Sorry, but that verse does not address the issue at all. One can read that verse until they are blue in the face but still not know that their “prosperity” preacher is the fraud that he is.

        These poor people are desperate for a better life. They don’t know that these preachers are charlatans, and that vague verse will not convince them otherwise.

        • Kevin

          It sure does address the issue. If we know our Bibles like we should we can easily identify false preachers but how many know their Bibles ? Isa. 8:20 says that if preachers do not preach according to the Bible there is no light in them. How can you say that is not relevant. Hinn and a host of others preach falsehood.

          • I recently had a short debate with one person on this blog who had responded to my posting several verses from the Gospels that completely contradict the messages of the prosperity preachers.

            He told me that I don’t know MY Bible.

            “You see, the actual problem is that even many who claim to know it, deny verbatim verses that are contrary to what they want to belive. They don’t want to know the facts.

  • Amos Moses

    Panicked Kenneth Copeland Orders 15 Industrial Shredders From Amazon
    April 28, 2017

    • Bobby

      that’s hilarious! Nice job at satire 🙂

  • Amos Moses

    1Tim 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

    1Tim 3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

    Titus 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

    Titus 1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre’s sake.

    1Pet 5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;

  • Kevin

    Lawlessless is wicknedness. If we begrudge God a tenth of his 100% ( He owns it all) to carry on the spreading of the gospel money is our idol.

    • Bobby

      LAW Kevin that’s LAW we are NOT under the law man you need to study geez louise!

      • Kevin

        You are confused about what laws we are not under and which ones we are under. Not to be under any law is lawlessness. Imagine a society without any laws. France tried that experiment. It lasted 10 years. It was called the reign of terror.. the French Revolution. They said they need no laws and each did what was right in his own eyes. They burned their Bibles and if a man wanted his neighbors wife he simply killed her husband and took her. You see without the law ” Thou shalt not kill” and “thou shalt not commit adultery” the reign or terror is the result. BTW did you know that ” geeze” is a form of using the Lord’s name in vain. it comes from the name “Jesus” just like frickin comes from _______.” Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God is vain.” I know that you do not know where “geeze ” comes from so it is a sin of ignorance. Please study more. Rev. 14:11-12 talk about two groups of people at the end of time. Verse 11 speaks of those who receive the mark of the beast. Notice verse 12 and then tell me that we are not to keep the commandments/law. ” Here is the patience of the saints; here are THEY THAT KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS and have he faith of Jesus.”

        • Bobby

          you are simply a complete moron. unbelievable!

          • Kevin

            It is ALWAYS the last resort to call names when a person does not know the Bible and cannot defend their position. Lawlessness is wickedness.

          • Bobby

            I call ’em as I see ’em you’re right Kevin you DON’T know the Bible ( just enough to be dangerous to yourself and others)
            .and obviously are completely happy in wrong doctrine and are headed for a BAD surprise to say the least. Let God be true and every man a liar. God’s word is the ONLY truth Kevin and if YOU would get a clue and “rightly divide” as Paul instructs in 2 Timothy 2:15 you may have a chance and you must have a screw loose because never said it was ok to sin… you are most likely hopeless due to your lack of critical thinking and desire to stay in wrong doctrine. Do me a favor don’t respond back just read your Bible CORRECTLY!!

          • Kevin

            You call them all right ( names) but you do not see clearly. You do not pay tithe and you think it is a curse to obey God and keep His 10 commandments. Then you call people names because you do not know your Bible and cannot defend your liberal doctrines. That is as unChristian as it gets. Jesus said “If ye love me keep My commandments. You say, that puts one under a curse. No wonder there are so many atheists out there when even professed Christians talk like atheists. The atheist does not obey God because of unbelief and you talk the same way.

      • Kevin

        Proverbs 29:18 Where [there is] no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy [is] he.

  • Bobby

    that’s a perfect word of faith response! Freely you have received …. hmm