Texas House Advances Bill Allowing Foster, Adoption Agencies to Operate According to Faith

AUSTIN, Texas — The Texas House of Representatives has advanced a bill that provides protections to foster care and adoption agencies operating in accordance with their faith.

House Bill 3859 was approved 94-51 on Tuesday amid opposition from Democrats who asserted that the move was discriminatory against homosexuals, “transgenders” and those of other religions.

“A governmental entity or any person that contracts with this state or operates under governmental authority to refer or place children for child welfare services may not discriminate or take any adverse action against a child welfare services provider on the basis, wholly or partly, that the provider has declined or will decline to provide, facilitate, or refer a person for child welfare services that conflict with, or under circumstances that conflict with, the provider ’s sincerely held religious beliefs,” the bill reads in part.

It also provides protections for agencies who intend to enroll children in religious educational institutions, as well as those who decline to provide referrals for abortion or contraceptives.

“This provides a reasonable accommodation to those who are helping solve our foster care crisis,” bill author Rep. James Frank, R-Wichita Falls told the Statesman. “This bill will make more foster care homes available.”

Democrats had proposed amendments to the legislation to prohibit organizations from making decisions based on the prospective family’s religion, “sexual orientation” or “gender identity,” but those proposals were rejected.

“HB 3859, while well-intentioned, blurs the goals of the legislature,” said Rep. Jessica Farrar, D-Houston. “Rather than addressing the findings laid before us by the bluntly accurate court case, we’re now taking the consideration of the providers over the best interests of the child.”

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However, Frank noted that most adoptions are through Child Protective Services, which would not be affected by the law. He said that the language only applies to religious organizations involved in foster care and adoption in order to protect them from punishment for operating in accordance with their faith.

“This is really to give quick, clear certainty to providers so they can take care of children instead of fighting lawsuits,” Frank explained. “We want to make reasonable accommodations so everyone can participate in the system. Everyone is welcome, but you don’t have to think alike to participate.”

“My guess is if you have an LGBT agency they’re going to pick an LGBT family, and if you have a Baptist agency they may be more likely to pick a Baptist family,” he also noted. “They’re free to do that and should be free to do that.”

Faith-based adoption agencies in the state include Christian Homes & Family Services, Generations Adoptions, Buckner International, ChristianWorks for Children, and Arrow Child & Family Ministries.


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  • InTheChurch

    Before all you LGBT supporters get angry, look up ICWA, Indian Child Welfare Act. Native children are placed in native homes first and then in Tribe approved non native homes. The Courts can not stop a tribe from removing their children. A native child can not be placed in any home without the tribe and the federal native agency being aware. I saw a native child be pulled from his foster mom after 5 years with her, since birth. The foster mom had no say, the judge sat there quietly and the tribe attorney walked in and took the 5 year old. He was on a plane and flown back to his reservation.
    What I am saying, this is not new. I understand it’s different but placing children in homes that meet their needs; race, religion, skin color or preferences.

    • Colin Rafferty

      The Indian Nations have different rules than regular States.

      • LeftCoast

        I know that, that is why I acknowledged it. I use to work for CPS. I know the law. But, I was making the comparison that kids are placed in homes based on race, skin color and beliefs.

        • Colin Rafferty

          Oh, I see. I misunderstood your point.

          The issue here isn’t that they’re now being allowed to place children based on the religious beliefs of the adoption agency, not the foster parents. For example, if a child has already been raised Catholic, you ought to put that child with another Catholic family.

          However, if it’s a baby, then any religion would be fine. But this law now allows a Catholic agency to refuse to place babies with any non-Catholic, just because the agency is Catholic.

          That’s the illegal discrimination part.

          • LeftCoast

            One thing that they did not mention, the bio mom or dad can make the request. Using your example, mom can request a catholic home for her new born. Will it be granted? maybe. But, they can look.
            I understand where the discrimination is at.

        • Michael C

          I’m confused, are you “InTheChurch?”

          • LeftCoast

            Yes I am. I did not log out of Christian News.

          • Michael C

            Oh okay, I didn’t want to respond to the wrong person.

            I was making the comparison that kids are placed in homes based on race, skin color and beliefs.

            This isn’t accurate. At all.

            Foster and adoptive parents are not denied on the basis of their race, skin color, and beliefs. If ever they are, it is wrong.

            You brought up the issue of children of Native decent. That’s a terribly complicated and exceptional situation. There are many exceptions in U.S. law when it comes to Native peoples.

            The standard for children of Native descent bears no relation or similarity to the subject of this bill. It is a red herring.

        • sandraleesmith46

          The primary focus, even more than race, religion, etc, should be on whether the prospective home can meet all the child’s needs developmentally; can it RAISE an healthy child, physically, mentally, and spiritually? If not, that’s not the place for that child.

          • LeftCoast

            beautifully said

          • sandraleesmith46

            Thank-you.

          • LeftCoast

            have a great weekend and Happy Mothers Day from the left coast

          • sandraleesmith46

            Thank-you from a neighbor in AZ. You do so as well.

          • Parodyx

            Not particularly well said. Why all the hatred?

          • LeftCoast

            please explain the hatred

          • Colin Rafferty

            Absolutely! Which is why this bill is horrible, because it allows people to use their religion as an excuse to illegally discriminate. For example, Buckner International only fosters to Christians.

          • sandraleesmith46

            No; it allows them to see what’s best for the CHILD: not the adults’ wants.

          • Colin Rafferty

            Foster agencies were always allowed to do what’s best for the child. They were also not allowed to illegally discriminate. With this bill, they are.

            Specifically, if a child is already Christian, it is not illegal discrimination to only place the child in a Christian home, because that would actually be what’s best for the child. Just as the best place for a Muslim child is in a Muslim home.

            However, this bill also allows Buckner International to refuse to place children anywhere but in Christian homes. While they are able to do this as a private agency, they can’t take State funds, because then the State is illegally discriminating.

            Which is why if the bill is passed, the law will be overturned, because it is unconstitutional on its face.

          • sandraleesmith46

            NONSENSE: get over your fear mongering.

          • Colin Rafferty

            It’s facts. I’m sorry that they make you uncomfortable, but that’s the truth. Calling something nonsense is a meaningless assertion, unless you actually point to something false in what I said.

            It’s fearsome because it’s true.

  • Michael C

    It sounds like this proposed legislation would allow state-funded foster and adoption agencies to refuse to to place children in homes on the basis of the provider’s sincerely held religious beliefs.

    Would this mean that a Catholic adoption agency that gets funding from the state can refuse to place children with Jewish parents?

    …so the Texas taxpayers are paying a Catholic agency to discriminate against a Jewish couple?

    • Colin Rafferty

      Well it would certainly be in the best interest of any child to only be placed in a home of my own religion, so of course they can discriminate.

      🙁

      • Sharon_at_home

        I can’t imagine them not considering all angles for the child; that’s the important thing in the whole issue. Are people really that cruel to people and children?

        • sandraleesmith46

          As a matter of fact, in recent years the decisions have been being made on the basis of politics and the wants of the “adults” not the best interests of the child.

          • Sharon_at_home

            That’s backwards! The need of the child is far more important than anything else.

          • sandraleesmith46

            I know; that’s my point.

          • Colin Rafferty

            Exactly! And this law allows the religious preferences of the foster agencies to be placed ahead of the child.

          • Sharon_at_home

            Well, I don’t agree with that! Not unless they put children with carefully chosen parents to match the child’s needs.

            Is it something all adoption agency are doing to let the baby’s mother choose who will adopt the baby and I see regularly things on them meeting the parents and being involved with their babies lives. If it’s typical, it would be up to the mother what religion they want them to be adopted by.

            But that wouldn’t be the same for the orphans unless they grew up with a religion.
            How would the adoption agencies be first set up? Do they divide up the orphans and continue to let the mother choose?

            I need more information than I have to say whether I agree or disagree. There are good parts I can see as a part of these adoptions, but there are also bad parts. It really depends on how the questions above are answered.

          • Colin Rafferty

            I know, I don’t think the adoption agencies should be doing this, either. Yet this law allows them to.

            This law says that adoption agencies that are paid for by the State are allowed to discriminate in ways that it is illegal for the State to discriminate. That’s what’s wrong.

    • Jason Todd

      Would this mean that a Catholic adoption agency that gets funding from the state can refuse to place children with Jewish parents?

      Do you have an example of this actually happening?

      Actually, this was done so if a Christian wishes to screen out LGBTQW households for foster families because the Bible says homosexuality is wrong, they can do so without governmental interference. Putting a child’s welfare over politics is always a good thing.

      • Michael C

        Actually, this was done so if a Christian wishes to screen out LGBTQW households…

        The legislation doesn’t specifically say anything about same-sex couples.

        I understand that it would allow state funded foster and adoption agencies to discriminate against gay people and people of other faiths or even denominations.

  • james blue

    Will this allow non religious agencies to refuse to put children in Christian homes?

    • Lexical Cannibal

      Brb, gonna go open a pagan adoption center that maintains a religious objection to adopting out to people of Abrahamic faiths.

      It’s not that we hate them, we just believe that the lifestyle they’ve chosen is harmful to children. /s

  • Colin Rafferty

    Well, it’s clearly unconstitutional. Just as the government can’t discriminate based on religion, and it also can’t subcontract out work to people who discriminate. So any agency that gets paid by the State is constitutionally bound to be non-discriminatory.

    And it’s the 14th Amendment that enforces equal protection on the State.

    • Johndoe

      It will definitely be opposed in the courts.

    • Robert

      We’re your parents queer if not why do you want there’s
      to be. The 14 th amendment can’t think you can think try doing it some of the time.

      • Michael C

        We’re your parents queer if not why do you want there’s
        to be. The 14 th amendment can’t think you can think try doing it some of the time.

        [Were] your parents queer[?] [I]f not[,] why do you want [theirs] to be[?]

        I’d try to help with that second sentence but… um… I just can’t.

        Were your parents Jewish? If not, why would you want theirs to be?

    • https://www.facebook.com/doug.bristow3 Doug Bristow

      Your equal protection is covered in the verbiage of the bill. This bill is non discriminatory in that it provides equal services to both faith based and secular agencies of adoption.

      The ones fighting against it are only doing so to advance their antichrist LGBT agenda.

      • Colin Rafferty

        See my response to your top level comment.

      • Chris

        The ones fighting for it are only doing so to advance their antichrist fundie agenda.

    • sandraleesmith46

      No; that’s not what the 14th Amendment SAYS: it’s what judicial activists/bench legislators claim it says.

      • Colin Rafferty

        The First Amendment says that the federal government is restricted from establishing a religion. The Fourteenth Amendment says that the federal government’s restrictions also apply to the States. So the State cannot establish a religion.

        Which means that it can’t also subcontract out the establishment of religion.

        The law is pretty clear, and has been for hundreds of years.

  • Peter Leh

    Passed the House… wait for the senate.

    Lots of things pass the house without going into law.

  • https://www.facebook.com/doug.bristow3 Doug Bristow

    This bill is non discriminatory in that it provides equal services to both faith based and secular agencies of adoption.

    The ones fighting against it are only doing so to advance their antichrist LGBT agenda.

    • Colin Rafferty

      Separate but equal was ruled unconstitutional decades ago.

      The simple issue is that the State cannot discriminate based on religious beliefs. It also cannot subcontract out its discrimination. So any agency that is paid by the State may not discriminate.

      • sandraleesmith46

        That would then, have to include YOUR religion, so no more special protections and privileges for y’all!

        • Colin Rafferty

          Well, yes. That’s the point of equal protection. So is there a particular religion that you think I am, and if so, what special protections or privileges do you think I have?

          • sandraleesmith46

            Yes, as a matter of fact, I do see that; and that you choose to NOT see the hypocritical special protections thereof, so no point in wasting further time with you.

          • Colin Rafferty

            You forgot to tell me what my special protections are. Seriously, how can I know what you are talking about if you don’t tell me?

          • Chris

            I think the idea is that being any religion except fundie Christian is getting a special protection. After all you’re being allowed to exist aren’t you? Only fundie Christians have a RIGHT to exist. All others exist on sufferance. Yeah, it doesn’t make sense to me either but that’s my best guess at translation.

          • Sharon_at_home

            The way she acts it is like she’s a white person that believes she should have privilege but no one else. She thinks she’s “Special” :d

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    Homosexual people should not have access to children. Children need moral adults around to grow properly. Contact with abnormal immorality is a child-abuse. The Western culture is insane to hand children over to pervs knowingly in an era where women are not chaste and men sleep with anything. May God bring justice upon every Sodom on earth. Jude 1.

    • Parodyx

      That’s a disgusting thing to say. There is no need to “protect” children from homosexuals. You make it sound like homosexuality is something that can be “spread”.

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        Homosexuality is a sin and a disgusting abnormal depravity. Leviticus 18-20, Romans 1, I Corinthians 6, Jude 1. Engaging adults cannot be stopped except to be educated by the Christians to stop sinning, but children need protection from knowledge of such depravity. Morality and innocence are children’s rights.

        • Parodyx

          It is none of those things Grace, and shame on you for being so willfully misinformed.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Men should be ashamed of sin and never boast of it. Western culture is insane to force mankind to support the abnormal depravity this century. The West is always a slave owner as long as it opposes the Holy Bible. This time, Western children are the victims. Read the Holy Bible and regain sanity.

          • Parodyx

            No one is boasting. You have been told many times that homosexuality is not a sin. I don’t know why this is so hard for you to understand.

          • sandraleesmith46

            Really???? WHAT then, do you call those insane pornographic parades y’all engage in?

          • Parodyx

            I don’t engage in them. And they represent only a certain percentage of their community.

          • sandraleesmith46

            DO you stand out and CONDEMN them? I doubt it; so you condone them.

          • Parodyx

            No, I leave them alone. Why is that so hard for you to do?

          • sandraleesmith46

            Because it’s allowing EVIL to flourish; and that’s evil in and of itself.

          • Parodyx

            You seem like a very angry person. I will leave you alone.

          • Colin Rafferty

            You should stand out and condemn sandraleesmith46, else you are condoning her.

          • Parodyx

            Well played 🙂

          • sandraleesmith46

            YOU BET I’m angry, about what destruction you and your ilk have wrought on MY homeland that my ancestors and I have served with love for over 240 years.

          • Parodyx

            I didn’t do anything to you. Chances are I don’t even live in the same country you do. I just believe there is no reason to hate someone based on how they were born. And no I’m not gay.

          • Sharon_at_home

            Not all of the parades are “pornographic parades”, and if you don’t like them, why even find out about them. Stay away from them and let them celebrate life without your criticism. Tell people you’d rather not hear about them if they start telling you about them.

            You have the right to be offended, but not the right to be offensive.

            Are you just here to make people feel bad about themselves?

            I try to encourage them and talk about Jesus’ love, I don’t presume to know everything about every Homosexual like you seem to. I also don’t think of them ONLY by the way they have sex. They live their lives in the same way you do, except the sex. Can you imagine if everyone went the other way and condemn straight people for their sex?

            If you think homosexuality is wrong, that’s your right, but being rude to people should have been something your mother taught you was not acceptable behaviour.

          • sandraleesmith46

            Well, maybe you were fortunate enough to not have been dragged up with the “lessons” like I was; 2 of my cousins and 1 of my siblings succumbed to them! They NEED to “feel bad” about those behaviors; enabling them helps NO ONE and they will NEVER repent unless they DO feel “bad” about it, just like every other sin! This is a LEARNED behavioral disorder, not something innate and Yhwh God condemned it millenia ago; do you seriously believe He would then follow that condemnation by creating even 1 person who was incapable of living other that in that sin? If you DO, then the “Jesus” you’re following isn’t Biblical either. It’s NOT His nature. They LEARN those behaviors just like people learn lying, stealing, murder, or drug abuse; also sins. Enabling unhealthy behavior, and not confronting it, helps NO ONE!

          • Sharon_at_home

            Did God create us as sinless people? Why should we treat their sin as any worse than any one else? God said all sins were equal.

            I have never gone to one of their parades but I’ve heard a lot of different things from the people I talk to. I cannot condone the sin, so I won’t attend a parade about it either.

            I’m sorry you were dragged to the parades by someone who just wanted to show you how bad sinning is. I doubt they cared as much about the gays, as much as they wanted you to feel bad about your sins.

            I do not believe it is a learned behaviour and the Lord never stated that in His Word. A learned behaviour means they experienced things that made the behaviour desirable. Not every gay has had an experience that could be something that would “teach the behaviour” so it cannot be a learned behaviour. How do you explain the ones who are gay who realized it on their own and did not know anyone else who was gay?

            You are wrong about how I follow Jesus. It’s a different view about the same scripture which is why many religions left one and became their own church just because of the different ways of interpreting God’s Word.

            I won’t discuss my method with you anymore because I have explained it and you have a different view on Jesus’ desire for us.
            I stand by the way I live and the way I approach teaching people about Salvation and Jesus’ love for all. My light shines because of my love of Jesus and his way of living.

          • sandraleesmith46

            Let me ask you this: does the God you know create that which He has already condemned as an abomination? If He does not, then NO person can possibly be “born” an homosexual because He condemned that, millenia ago, as just that, and would NOT subsequently create a person who could behave in no other way. I wasn’t talking about the parades as the “lessons”; they didn’t allow such obscenity when I was being dragged up. And the lessons are not always all that obvious to the casual observer; the ones that snagged my sibling wouldn’t even have been recognized by most for what they taught.

          • Sharon_at_home

            Now you’ve made me curious. “the ones that snagged my sibling would have been recognized by most for what they taught.”
            So Sandralee, you believe that homosexuality is a learned behaviour because of something that probably allowed your sibling to admit to what she feels inside to herself (it isn’t an easy thing to allow yourself to be someone that society – and family disagree with from what I understand.)
            Can you explain what “the ones” that “snagged your siblings” that are obviously very discreet prods I’m assuming?
            I didn’t feel exactly the same way Sandralee, but I did not feel comfortable with gays because it made me think of the way they have sex and I knew nothing else about them really. I feel sex is a private issue and shouldn’t be something people talk about openly, especially in public.
            When I was posting on this board, I found a couple of people who aren’t homosexuals themselves, but are more about wanting justice and equality for everyone including them. I thought they were gay until they said they weren’t, and what their purpose was to be on the board at all – so they were defending homosexuals because they have a different understanding of them.
            Because I don’t like sex on display I asked them what else the movement could focus on instead of the sex – which is what makes the believers of the bible want to save them from sin. So along in the discussions, they both told me that the LGBT are people just like you and I except they love someone of the same gender; otherwise they go about life Just like you and I.
            The thing that made me look at the people differently was when they told me (and I’ve seen other posts about it too) that even though it is not what is considered normal in society, they LOVED each other.
            So I thought about them with that as the focus instead of their sex which should be private, right?
            When I think about all the things in the bible, the Scripture that God is Love.
            1 John 4:7 ” 7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. ”
            If they love they are born of God. The LGBT Love each other, just like we love our husbands and friends and family.
            Why did God allow them to exist AT ALL if he found them abhorrent? He is omnipotent and can create and destroy anything – even making it appear to us as another reason for the destruction of a group of people.
            So God put them here as they are, or they wouldn’t have been, and they love so He did put them here himself.
            That means they are here for the same reason as we are. To not sin and be told about Salvation and Jesus’ love so they don’t want to sin.
            The other thing is that we are supposed to love everyone regardless of the sins they commit because they could turn to Jesus at some point in their lives and because Jesus told us to “Treat people the way you want to be treated.” I feel that the way you approach it is aggressive considering those things. God was aggressive in a time that people did not care about sinning. It needed to be aggressive then to make it known everywhere too but also because Jesus had the power to make them listen.
            Today their world is different. God never changes, but it doesn’t mean we can’t change our way of dealing with people who sin. Does it? It still about the sin, but it isn’t being as aggressive about it. People today don’t like aggressive people telling them they are bad people for sinning. How is being aggressive going to bring people to Jesus? Do you really believe that talking to gays like you do, is going to turn them to Jesus? Would you give up your husband to turn to Jesus – who is someone might not even believe in if they have never heard the gospel in the first place. If the bible said you were not allowed to marry woman to man anymore – it doesn’t and wouldn’t I know – put yourself in that place. Would you turn to someone you have just been told about by others and walk away from the love you both had. I know that God said the things he said in the bible about these things, what I’m trying to do is get you to see what God feels about homosexuals – they are people who sin, not a sin in themselves – as well as see that their love is just as real as ours because God is Love and He created them as people that He knew would sin (God knows everything before it happens) as everyone is a sinner, He would know what sin we will be doing.
            Pointing out a sin is impossible if they didn’t tell you what sin they commit. When people go to a church, the church doesn’t instantly want them to confess what sins they have done. They teach them about the bible Including how we can sin and what to do about it.
            For all you know someone you respect at work is an LGBT who hasn’t come out; knows you are a Christian and doesn’t want to hear it. You cannot always tell that people are LGBT. Because they live just like we do.
            You can’t always be sure someone is a Christian just because they are good people either.
            So look at the LGBT with understanding (ask God) and the same love you would get a person who sinned by smoking to stop for Jesus. It’s not JUST the sin we are supposed to look at.
            Sandralee, I’m just trying to help so there can be more of a discussion with them, than just a hate rant about their sins. I do not say ever that you shouldn’t try to bring them to Jesus so they will stop the sin that God said was a sin. I just think God wouldn’t put so much hate into it, and wouldn’t want us too either.

          • sandraleesmith46

            You FAILED, In all your preachy diatribe, to answer my question, so all I will give you is that I was THERE and SAW, you weren’t; nothing was “enabled”; it was TAUGHT! Even my sibling knows and acknowledges it!

          • Sharon_at_home

            Ok so what was the thing that you saw and that taught your sibling I’m guessing, to be gay? I am really honestly interested in how it happened because I’ve never been told about it before. There is always one more story to hear about things.
            If I know about something, and think it is a valid concern, I will talk to others about it so maybe I can get some more information about it for you too. I’m not saying it won’t be a valid concern, I just will not say before I know it, whether I think it is. That would be, for me, dishonest because I don’t know the story. But I’m all for telling people about a valid concern so they are aware of it too and can avoid things like it.
            Sandralee, in a lot of my posts I just really want you to try to look at the other side. It is important to know your enemies they say, but it makes them just sinners, not with it being such a big deal. Yes they sin by the way they have sex, which means if they had not mentioned it, you should never have known it was even happening – for that matter when the LGBT came out to demand equal rights a lot more came out to be able to be involved with it, but who would not likely have come out in any other situation.
            We all sin Sandralee. No sin is greater than another sin Sandralee. We can know people and love people and never even become aware of their sins.
            Somebody obviously was able to get your sibling at the very least to question herself and I’m sure other people would want to know how to prevent it from happening to anyone they know.
            God bless you and your sibling Sandralee, with peace and contentment. I pray in Jesus’ name. Amen.

          • sandraleesmith46

            No, that was the 2 cousins, 1 of each; my sibling is a tranny, and I saw the process and events that led to that thinking. It’s not a single factor but a lot of little things that won’t make sense to you because you didn’t see how they wove together to teach that lesson; and there isn’t room in this forum to list or explain them all. It has to do with the familial structure throughout the extended family and where things were focused, as well as abuses that were occurring in the formative years, again, not all of which would connect directly in a logical manner, unless you could observe the whole effect. I didn’t understand it all, ’til I began seriously studying psychiatry and psychology for nurses, and could put the memories into their proper context.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            It is a sin. God said so. Nudist Western pervs should not decide anything for mankind. Only those who married once and raised their own biological children properly should be allowed to vote in your culture.

          • Parodyx

            There is no such thing as “nudist Western pervs” and it is getting a little tiresome that you call people horrible names in every single post you make.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            It’s reality. The West needs Christianity for purity and morality.

          • Sharon_at_home

            It’s reality that you have to say awful and ugly things about people you don’t know? Grace, Christ said to love the sinners. That the person without sin should cast the first stone! Do you really think that you are without sin? Jesus said No one is without sin. Not a one.
            Should we find out your sins and call you names and ugly things because of it? No. so treat people the way you want to be treated. If you could just stop being so judgemental in your posts. You can say these things without making it sound like you put everyone in the same boat. That’s why I said you should make it Some people… Everyone is unique, just like everybody else. You can’t say things like “The West” because it is too big of a place to say anything about the people. There are people in the West just like you and I that are nothing like the posts you make.
            Are you the same as everyone you know? do you all think exactly the same way? Should people say “people of the East” need to change ‘this’.
            Please think about it. Or you just end up being ignored on the comment board. You could make some good points if you just changed the way you make it sound like everyone is the same. You know I am just trying to help you. God bless!

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Sharon, Western liberals are trying to destroy global children by prohibiting morality on Planet Earth. Please wake up before freedom is gone. This is not time to concern if we are nice enough.

          • Sharon_at_home

            Parodyx has said he tried to believe in a religion and didn’t find a ‘fit’ for himself.
            I don’t believe there is a big conspiracy to make people immoral. Even if it were true, there are enough people in the nation to object and stop it. Especially Christians. People here are able to say that they disagree with the Government. I don’t believe that all non-believers are immoral either. I wasn’t when I wasn’t a Christian. Each individual decides how they want to live, and morals are whether the individual agrees with society too.
            More people live by their morals without thinking about it, than people who decide to live without the morals society believes.
            You limit yourself when you believe things that say anything that groups people together like “Western Liberals” because not all Western Liberals believe in it. Does everyone in your life agree with everything you do?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            That’s because Parodyx prefer immorality over a religion. There are features in groups. I don’t need your agreement in expressing my observations here.

          • Sharon_at_home

            If someone tried to understand a religion and couldn’t (for all you know, nobody tried to help him understand.) and gave up.
            Well, I went to at least 2 other churches to try to find a ‘fit’. One overwhelmed me and thought that a visit meant a conversion. The other totally ignored me and no one said a word to me, although many people met my gaze.
            God brought me to the church I am in. I can see the different steps he took to bring me to it in my life. It was a perfect ‘fit’ for me.
            So why exactly are you putting Paradyx down as a lost cause. Many will be brought to Jesus in the end times. How can you decide who God will enable?

            If there can be no discussion then what is the purpose of you commenting on a board at all. Most people welcome a discussion unless they can’t handle people disagreeing with them.
            I’ve not given any agreement or disagreement to your post, and most of my posts are trying to help you communicate with the other posters better, including explaining that your views are smearing a whole nation of people by saying “the West” when you say things that might be a small portion of the people in the “West”. If you don’t want help so your comments would actually make a difference to another poster, I’ll be happy to stop posting suggestions, but I will always stand behind the way God told us how to treat each other and that God would not want us to demean the person because of the sin.
            I believe it was Chet on this board that said it was true, Jesus, or Paul – never showed hate when they were talking to sinners.
            So why would you? Jesus was aggressive to them, but he was not demeaning and the things you say are very demeaning and not just to the people you are aiming your darts at.
            When you say the West is perverted you are saying that about ALL PEOPLE who live in the West. That’s not even close to the truth, by any measure. That’s why I suggested you change how you say things. By saying it like that you are insulting every single American – or even a Canadian like myself. I am in no way perverted but you say I am… and my Pastor and all the members of my church… and all my friends in my life… and a lot of Christians that are offended by you saying ALL of the West is perverted.
            Now do you get more understanding of why I try to help you say the things you want to say without using such broad terms that include people who are in no way perverted. It’s insulting. And it’s very intolerant. I never told you this way because I didn’t want to hurt your feelings in any way, but tried to explain without being blunt rather than helpful. Kindly is a better way to say it perhaps. But I think you are looking at my suggestions and disagreeing with what I said, and continuing to insult a large amount of people who in no way deserve it.
            So is it that you don’t want my suggestions because you don’t think they apply to you, or do you still want discussions about each our views? We’re both Christian and should be able to discuss God without arguing even if we don’t think the other one has got valid arguments? You are right, I am wrong -every time – unless I agree with your view about why God does things? Or when the meanings of things said in the bible could be differently viewed and so we have different views on a passage and you don’t seem to even give someone else – even a Christian – the respect to think about what they say and instead remain focused on being right because you believe the way you understand it is Right. You make me want to give up on you Grace! Just like you think giving up on Paradyx is the right thing to do because he failed your test by not believing in God one the one time he said that he didn’t find the right fit – therefore he tried and that should be admired. I wonder if I should try to help a person who won’t at least listen to what I see the Word as. Yes there are sins pointed out in the bible as abominations, but no where does it say to treat anyone as anything less that you would yourself.
            Another thing, just a thought, How do you know I wasn’t directed here to express myself the way God wants me to. I have scriptures to back up what I say, but it’s all in the Gospel. Why are your scriptures the right ones, and my scriptures are not, even though mine are in the Gospel which includes how Jesus wanted us to live with each other.

          • Sharon_at_home

            It depends on how you interpret the bible on the subject. Some groups have revised the bible to show it as something other than sin.
            I believe in what God said in His Word, but I look at the whole issue, not just what the bible says about it. Plus, I believe God wanted us to tell the sinner their sin, tell them about Jesus’ love, and let them decide themselves how they want to go. If they aren’t interested in Jesus’ love, then we are supposed to ‘wipe their dust off’ and leave them. If God wants them, they will be approached by someone who will be able to lead them to Jesus, otherwise He knows they will never change.
            Some will fixate on the sin and others won’t. You need to accept that as they need to accept that people sin. If someone is very resistant to what you say, I suggest you accept they have an attitude that you won’t be able to change, and walk away from the arguments. Why waste your time when you could be telling someone else the same things and they will change their views.
            I know it made a difference asking questions so I could see more fully the problems that LGBT face. People really have to look into more than homosexuals sexual habits. It’s about the whole person, not just that.

          • sandraleesmith46

            No it’s not misinformation; you’re the one spreading that.

          • Parodyx

            Everything I say is verified, settled science.

          • sandraleesmith46

            No; it’s not verified, or settled, and it’s most assuredly NOT science!

          • Parodyx

            Well, I can give you a zillion websites that will disagree with you.

          • sandraleesmith46

            Popularity never equates with “right” ; popular opinion can be VERY wrong, and often is.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Yes, defeat the Nazism and Nazi education!

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            The Holy Bible alone is right. Western perversion and its young mental slaves are wrong.

          • Parodyx

            There are no slaves and there is no such thing as Western perversion.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            The Western culture tries to subdue mankind with Sodomy as they subdued the white people to treat the colored people equally last century. It’s nothing short of a mental slavery by sexual immorality this century. A totally-wrong application of something good. You always need the Holy Bible to be right and humane.

          • Parodyx

            I live in the west and no one tries to tyrannize me with sodomy.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You grew up in the culture and do not notice anything. You need Christianity for salvation and godly life.

          • Parodyx

            I had it. It was wrong for me so I discarded it. These days I just try to be kind to people instead.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Your kindness is nothing because you support the abortion-murder. The sin of unbelief is worse than disrespecting your own parents. You are a mere creature and should acknowledge your sin, repent it, and ask God for forgiveness because you’ve sinned against the Creator God.
            “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. …The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans chapters 3-6)

          • Parodyx

            I don’t support abortion OR murder. How dare you.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            But you support Sodomy. It’s just as destructive and sinful. Romans 1. You must repent your sin to be saved.

          • Parodyx

            I don’t support sodomy. I simply don’t get involved with consensual relationships are none of my business. If people are in love then that is lovely.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            See you support immorality. Consent also brings suicide and drug abuse and is no standard for anything. Destructive lust is not love.

          • Sharon_at_home

            sometimes Grace you go too far with your way of making it sound like people are all the same if they are not believers. Stop saying that other people are all wrong with their beliefs. Yes tell them about the sin, but teach them how to overcome it in Jesus, and not act like they are convicted and punished on earth. God will judge everyone and He will know who is a sinner and who isn’t by their hearts. Everyone has the ability to change to come to Jesus but you are implying that they are never going to be able to do it. God’s got the control, leave the judgment and punishment with Him for the ones that deserve it.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You misunderstood me. The Anti-christians here are similar, actually the same. Paradyx support depravity. I give them Bible references to read. If they are serious, they will read.

          • Sharon_at_home

            The way you ‘voice’ your opinions and scripture is without encouragement to listen, let alone read anything you suggest. Change the way you say things and it will make a huge difference to how you are received. Show your love of God by treating people with love, not hate. Shine your light for Jesus! Don’t let yourself feel so hateful towards others, Grace. It shows in your posts that you hate these people not that you want to encourage them to give up their sin. You have to do more than tell them they are awful sinners and give them scriptures, and don’t believe everyone is the same, and don’t say it even if you think it. Give them encouragement and give them scriptures. Help them understand the scriptures, don’t tell them they are awful people. People don’t want to hear how awful they are in the first place. State the sin if you want to. then go into the scriptures. But don’t be using name calling as part of God’s Word. Jesus would not want you to.
            Tell them your belief and why you believe it. And don’t make it sound like you think just ripping into them is the way you encourage them to stop sinning. Be more compassionate about the subject of sin. Nobody wants to sin, but we all do anyway. One sin is equal to all other sin, so why do you sound like their sin is worse than any you have done?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Sharon, we just spoiled them by being nice for-ever and ever. We need to repent of having appeased the Sodomites and placing God the second, really. Christian niceness does not work.

          • Parodyx

            Allowing people who are not harming anyone or anything to live their lives in peace does not make me a supporter of immorality.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are wrong. West’s inclination to Sodomy hurts mankind greatly because the West is powerful and their present logic leads to total abolishment of morality. Freedom is lost in the very moment when people are not allowed to express that homosexuality/transgenderism is sin.

          • Sharon_at_home

            Stop being so judgemental about people who you don’t know. You don’t know how anyone here feels without them commenting about it. No one has ever said they support abortion and murder. A lot of people don’t approve of abortion, and a lot of people do approve of abortion. You can’t decide anything without knowing the person. Especially by the area they live in.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Sharon, I know he or she supports abortion. He or she is a non-believer; pro-life non-believers never counter Christians in a Christian news site. Let’s be logical and observant.

          • Sharon_at_home

            He isn’t countering Christians about abortion, he is asking for Christians to be more tolerant of people who are different than you. Is that really wrong?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Yes, it is wrong. He demands people to endorse homosexual depravity. That diminishes the truth and freedom’s right to exist in the West.

          • Sharon_at_home

            No Parodyx is not demanding anything. Nor have I ever seen him demand anything. He just wants us to look at homosexuals without condemning them and for us to understand their feelings.
            Grace, God said He is Love. Shouldn’t you love everyone regardless of their sin first and foremost? Telling people about Jesus should not be put in a hateful way! Talking about their sin with anything more than it being that they can overcome their sin by coming to Jesus is wrong. Talk about sin as something people can overcome with Jesus’ love, not with condemnation in your words. It’s not our place to condemn, it’s our place to show them love.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Sharon, they are not poor illiterate pagans. They attack the Christians with the full knowledge, bashing their own white Christian ancestors all the time. God is love, and He is also holy. I don’t think we should spoil them with nice words. They need God’s truth and life’s facts straight forward. Tell Parodyx the Word of God yourself, too. I know what you are saying.

          • Sharon_at_home

            OMG Grace what a topic to generalize about! Very few people in the USA are poor illiterate pagans. Everyone is given an education and the poor are not necessarily pagans.
            You have to research the USA deeper than you have, I think.
            You think by telling them about the pertinent scriptures is spoiling them!? How do you figure that?
            They attack Christians because Christians (like you) attack them. If we all treated them well, they wouldn’t have to feel like they have to attack to be safe.
            How would you like to feel unsafe because a group of people are always yelling you telling you that you are an awful person and that you will go to Hell, just because you think differently from them. Would you feel like they are people who are good people who only care about you? Put yourself in the same place and think about how you would feel in the exact same situation.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Sharon, you should stop being judgmental against me. West’s current Sodomic inclination prohibits sexual purity, and it must be countered by all normal and moral humans. Take up your responsibility; it’s the West doing mega-evil again, out of having a full stomach and boredom and inclination to nudism and Sodomy. How WOULD you feel if you’ve been discriminated as a colored all your life and next moment discriminated for opposing the society’s mentally-ill sexual depravity? This is not even funny. Wake up.

          • Sharon_at_home

            You are so patient Parodyx! It’s so nice to see!

      • sandraleesmith46

        You’re wrong, there IS such a need; and the NIH has the statistics to show it. Children are NOT sufficiently mature to properly process such information before their late teens; and it does them mental and spiritual harm to be exposed to it before that stage of development. Children dragged up in such “homes” lag behind their peers on ALL levels developmentally, even behind children brought up in single parent/mother households. It IS abuse to place children under 18 in situations where they’re exposed to information beyond their maturity levels to process. And homosexuality is something that can be/does spread! It’s a learned behavior.

        • Parodyx

          Are homosexuals just supposed to pretend they’re not homosexuals? That’s a good idea in your mind??

          • sandraleesmith46

            No; they should get THERAPY and get over it; preferably by converting and repenting their sin; but if you want to keep living that unhealthy lifestyle fine, your choice, just leave KIDS out of it!

          • Parodyx

            If you think therapists make people un-gay, I have to wonder what century you are living in.
            Therapists help people live with their sexuality, not reject it.

          • sandraleesmith46

            That’s because therapists are NO LONGER allowed to offer actual HEALING for them; instead they’ve become ENABLERS!

          • Parodyx

            For heaven’s sake, they’re trained medical professionals. They know what they’re doing.

          • sandraleesmith46

            They are HOGTIED by liberal lawmakers and NOT allowed to practice their profession properly. It’s been going on for more than 5 decades.

          • Parodyx

            What absolute nonsense!

          • Sharon_at_home

            I think you just hate homosexuals, lady. You have not tried in any way to understand about them, and have made up your mind without considering anything but how you hate them because they sin.
            Are you without sin in your life?
            I find that accepting THE PERSON they are, instead of the sexual habits, I am able to love them like Jesus wanted us to. Pointing out their sin is something he did with love and compassion, not anger and hatred.
            I suggest you do some research on the homosexuals, not on what you hate about them. I have found that homosexuals feel the same love that any straight people have for each other. God is Love. How can you hate someone who shows love in any way.
            I agree that in the bible it shows that their sexual habits are a sin, but you still aren’t to hate the people who sin, but just the sin. Try to convert them, but leave the final judgement to God. He can see their hearts – we can’t. As Jesus said, those without sin, cast the first stone. Can you say you are sinless? No you can’t because we all sin.
            How can you say that everyone from one group are the same anyway? They aren’t all the same so therefore they won’t ALL abuse the children they adopt any more than straight people do. Should children be left unadopted because SOME of them MIGHT abuse them?
            As to the way they live being traumatic for them, I call B.S. on that. Children are in no way hurt by being exposed to homosexuals unless someone else makes them recognize the difference in a way that is harmful. Children accept their lives as they are and don’t make judgements about people. In today’s society, there are too many variables to the family lifestyle, they won’t feel odd in school.
            Would having parents who are nudists, and are always nude in the house, be as bad in your eyes, even if they were straight?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            I think you are not Christian.

          • Sharon_at_home

            Well you are wrong. Read the Gospel again Grace.
            I live like Jesus wants us to. I try not to sin, and I ask forgiveness for the sins. I do not show hate towards anyone. And I try to stick to what Jesus said. Including about how we must forgive each other or the Lord will not forgive us.
            And I have always lived by the Golden Rule – which is also from the bible – treat people the way you want to be treated.
            Just because we have different views about what Jesus wanted us to do is not a reason to insult my Christianity. You could ask me about why I feel this way or that way. But don’t condemn me because you don’t understand how I look at things.

            I think, in every post I make, I have made it apparent that I am a Christian with a different opinion about what Jesus wanted for us. He is all about love and caring. It is about love that makes us tell others about their sin and about Jesus. It shouldn’t be done with hateful sounding words. How can you say you love sinners when you are so condemning about their sin? If you don’t love them, how is that any less than a sin? You won’t forgive them for the sin you feel they have done.

            I am a Christian. My love of God/Jesus is enough to be sure of that. I try to help unbelievers understand what the scriptures say, rather than just saying it is a sin. If they don’t understand God’s Word, how can you expect them to even consider looking for Jesus’ love? Besides, you and the others make their sin VERY known so I don’t feel a need to reinstate it. They know they are considered sinners, why should I beat them up for it. I’m a sinner too.
            Don’t question others Christianity because you don’t agree with their positions unless you ask pertinent questions to be able to discern it.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            I see. I thought you are too supportive of homosexuality reading a bit of your letter to Sandra.

          • Sharon_at_home

            I am supportive of their right to love each other. I am not supportive about their sex life because it is in the bible and I think I make that clear when I reply to homosexuals.
            I used to think of homosexuals as people who have sex in a way that is against God, because I focused on their sex life. These are people that are exactly the same as you and I except their sex life.
            Now I see that homosexuals love each other as Jesus told us to. I will talk to them about the sin and explain it from the biblical view, but I can no longer think of them focused on the sex.

            Because of that love, I think it should be left to God to give judgement about each person by looking into their hearts. God is love. Why would God want us to hate someone who has love in their lives. He would want us to help them, encourage them to give up their sin, but not hate them.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            God is also holy and does not accept unrepentant sinners. Homosexuality is not love but abnormal lust. You’d support pedophilia, incest, and animal-rapes in the future by saying exactly the same thing. Read Leviticus 18-20, Romans 1, I Corinthians 6, and Jude 1. No matter how smooth-mouthed the Western humanists are, the holders of the Holy Bible cannot be deceived. Western whites need to ban the Holy Bible and Christianity altogether if they desire to establish their sick destopia on earth. God forbid.

          • sandraleesmith46

            Have YOU ever actually seen what that lifestyle actually does to a soul, a mind, or a body? I have. It’s UGLY; and YES, I do hate what they do to themselves and to those around them often as well, because of it. That doesn’t mean I hate them; in fact, I care enough to tell them the TRUTH about where that lifestyle will lead them: DO YOU? I think not!

          • Sharon_at_home

            No don’t use the line that you tell them because you care – you don’t show any love or caring in anything you say.
            Maybe the experience you had was horrible to you, but it doesn’t mean every single gay is as bad.
            It is the way you tell them you care by shouting and pointing out more than just the sin, you want to broadcast everything you’ve ever heard about the sin, not show compassion and encouragement to repent for their sins.
            Hate the sin, but God wants us to love each other. How is talking about someone’s sex life that you don’t approve of, by making them sound more awful because of how you look at it.
            Look around and see that people should be treated like people first and told about their sin, second.
            And yes I have met some gay men and they were perfectly normal in every way I was and since I didn’t insist on knowing what their sex life was, we got along great. They were friends of my half uncle – half aunt who was a bisexual. None of them acted badly, and they were actually nicer than a lot of people I’ve met.
            So confine the discussions to just teach people about Jesus, and not about our personal feelings about the subject. Telling us of your personal revulsion really does nothing but demean people. I’m not as interested in your personal opinion, as I am interested in what God wants us to behave like, and about teaching God’s Word about Jesus’ love and Salvation. ?That is our duty in Christ to spread the gospel regardless of our personal opinion.

          • sandraleesmith46

            WRONG! If I didn’t care, I’d say nothing and just let them go straight to hell, do not pass go, etc. Because their own choices and behaviors are sending them there. Obviously you don’t comprehend the concept of “tough love”, or anything about how to “triage”, and make tough calls.

          • Sharon_at_home

            I don’t agree with Tough Love in any way. It is not showing love to me, it is usually a show down between people who cannot bring themselves to compromise in some way to work out what the problem is. If you brought your children up by showing them respect, they would show you respect. Otherwise they will show their dis-respect and as a result because you won’t show weakness, this is called Tough love.
            There is no love in kicking people out of a house especially if it results in living on the street. That is not responsible love of a parent to a child. Family is too important to be putting up barriers so no talking can be accomplished. A parent is supposed to teach their children by example not by being a hypocrite and if you are not showing them what you are doing you can expect to see the same behaviour coming back to you and not the way you taught them either.
            I love my children fiercely Sandralee. I am a mother bear to my children and I will never ever abandon any of them for any reason. I live to provide love and an anchor to my children and I can’t do that by kicking them out. It makes no sense.
            Take the time to discuss the differences and try to see their side to everything if there is a disagreement. You have to remember that the kids these days think in a different way than we do and have outside influences that make them question what they have been taught, and those have to be addressed. It’s not like a discussion is going to be finished in one sitting either. I find that people who insist they are right about things are not allowing themselves to see what the other people are saying. So they remain insistent that they are right and all attempts of being reconciled is gone. So the child gets kicked out in essence for being the person you watched grow into this position and did nothing until it was a bigger issue. If it had been approached when the child first starts to turn to a direction you are concerned about, with respect and compassion then, again, there would not be an issue worthy of the removal of Love and respect. At the bare minimum, you give the child notice that they have to be out and give them time to accumulate what they need for living on their own. An apartment, rent, and hopefully a budget to start off with. Leaving your home for the first time is hard enough on both the child and the parents, why would I want to make it so it is a permanent loss of a relationship that is one of the most important in my life.

          • sandraleesmith46

            I see, so you just ignore the Pauline letters entirely, and make up your own rules as you go along. Satan did that too…

          • Sharon_at_home

            Stop associating me with Satan or I will remind you that we are both Christians and if I could be Satan so could you be.
            I made up my mind about Tough love before I became Christian so I really did not care what the bible said at the time. I told you what I felt the parents could do instead of letting it get to the point of needing to use supposed tough love. I’d have to read the parts you refer to with my view of tough love in mind. Thank you for the suggestion.
            I might have something to say about it after I’ve read it from that point of view.
            I do not make up my own rules, and live by those that are in the bible, but since I was not Christian at the time I made up my mind, I didn’t even think about what God would think, let alone someone else in the bible. For that matter I didn’t even know anyone in the bible for whom they were. I just knew a few names other than God and Jesus, but not else.
            Can you give me scriptures that showed Satan made up his own rules as he went along? I don’t think I understood that exactly. The only places I can remember Satan being was in Eden; with Job; and with Jesus on the mountain top. Was there another place that shows more of him than these three ‘books’? I’d be interested to know so I can read them as obviously I’ve missed them. I’m afraid you must know more about Satan than I do, but I rely Only on the scriptures when I discuss them because my religion says that – if it is not in the bible, it is not the Truth. Too many religions allow for others opinions and quotes to sound like they are in the bible when they are not. We stick only to the bible (KJV)
            So keep showing me what I’m missing in the bible and I’ll keep looking them up. I may not always agree with how you look at it, but I am always interested in a good calm discussion.
            I appreciated that you didn’t yell at me this time very much. I am willing to discuss things but I don’t like when people try to force me to agree with them by yelling at me, because that’s what it felt like when you typed in all caps. I’m glad you have stopped sounding and hopefully maybe stopped being angry so we can talk if you want to.
            God bless Sandralee!

        • Michael C

          … the NIH has the statistics to show it.

          Citation?

          Here’s what I get when I query the NIH;

          We conclude that there is a clear consensus in the social science literature indicating that American children living within same-sex parent households fare just, as well as those children residing within different-sex parent households over a wide array of well-being measures: academic performance, cognitive development, social development, psychological health, early sexual activity, and substance abuse.

          • sandraleesmith46

            Then they’ve politically edited their site; because that’s NOT what they published on their public pages JUST LAST YEAR!

          • Michael C

            mmm hmm

      • yabruf

        Uh homosexuals increase their ranks by abusing children clueless one. They injury a child like they were injured thinking its “love”.

        Remember homosexuals are recruited not created.

        • Parodyx

          They increase their ranks when more homosexuals are born. That’s the
          only possible way they can “increase their ranks”. And no, you’re
          wrong, they aren’t interested in children. That’s pedophiles you’re
          thinking of. If you have a dictionary handy, you can check that for
          yourself.

          If you knew anything at all about your subject, you’d know you can’t “recruit” someone to change sexuality because sexuality can’t be changed. I’d love to hear how one of those conversations sounded, it must be completely ridiculous. You’ve bought into the hate speak.

    • yabruf

      I wholeheartedly agree! Keep the pedophiles away from the innocent.

  • sandraleesmith46

    WHATEVER happened to the “welfare of the CHILD” coming first? In recent years it’s been strictly the WANTS of the “adults” without regard for the long term effects on the children. NO adult can pass along to a child what he/she doesn’t know him-/herself! Even the GOV’T, via NIH, has established that children forced into same sex or “gender fluid” situations LAG developmentally in all areas behind those raised even in single parent/mother households; single parent/father seem to fare a bit better. Children NEED a mother and a father, they don’t need the drama, and they don’t need the unhealthy teaching; they need sound, healthy values. It’s time to go back to doing what’s best for the child and for those adult-children to grow up and realize they’re HURTING the children by demanding their wants be met first.

  • Malleus

    Considering how many gay men prey on the boys they adopt, it should be illegal for them to ever adopt a child.

    • Sharon_at_home

      There are only a few of the thousands that have “preyed on the boys they adopt” and not every homosexual that has adopted children have abused them.
      What about the straight people who abuse their children? Do you think straight people should be banned from adopting children too?
      Your reasoning is not sensible because of the fact that straight people abuse children – the same way – but are still allowed to adopt more children.

      • Parodyx

        Thank God for Christians like you. Seriously. These fundamentalists could learn a thing or two from you.

        • Sharon_at_home

          Thank you Parodyx I appreciate the compliment.
          I’ve not been a Christian all my life like a lot of people of Faith are. It has made a difference in my viewpoints. I still like to live like Jesus, but I don’t see my Jesus as being hateful and rude.

          I will stand up for someone who is being vilified for the way they live. Everyone should be able to choose. And even if I feel it’s not a good way, they are human beings and should be treated properly.

          I Suggest you recommend Fundies read the Gospel again; Jesus is not like the way these people act. He made his feeling known about the sin, but he never made the people feel demeaned by their sin because we are all sinners. He made it look like it should be only be telling them of their sin and getting them to look at Jesus’ love, not beating them up for being a sinner. Jesus was kind and loving. Why would he want us to be any different? God bless!

          • yabruf

            You need to pick up your Bible and actually read it because from what it sounds like you don’t even know who Jesus is.
            Jesus used the destruction of Sodom as a warning to us multiple times in the new testament.

            Jesus condemned and convicted people of their sin all the time and everywhere he went!

            So tell me in John 2:15 where Jesus drove the money changers out of the temple with a whip like they were dogs and dumped their tables do you think he was being “rude” or “hateful” then?……Lol

            In Leviticus 20:13 God issue’s the death penalty for the sodomite. He doesn’t have them adopting innocent children! Oh but wait that’s a little too rude for you though huh?

            I suppose the Pslams written by David describing him hating those who hate God, is a little to much for you as well huh?:
            Psa 139:21 Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?

            You need to actually read the Bible and stop being so naive. If you are going to claim to be a Christian and follow Christ shouldn’t your thoughts and actions actually reflect his word, or I’m I being too rude?…….:)

          • Sharon_at_home

            OMG you judge me?
            I’ve been thoroughly taught about Jesus. We focus on the good things about Jesus not the things that people do that are sins. We do not dwell on sinners going to Hell, we focus on the good things Jesus offers and lets each person decide about the sins we are taught, and what they need to repent for, rather than how much God hates what they are doing, we look at how much he loves each of us, regardless of our sin.
            You don’t know me at all, and you obviously have not read my posts to others. You have no right to say whether I am a good Christian or not. BTW I read the bible as much as I can. I have read through it, but still have to look up scriptures that I know, but not perfectly. I believe everyone should refer to the scripture when they are telling people they are sinners.
            1st John 4:7 says “Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.” John was talking to people who he taught Jesus to. in the bible that said that the things Jesus said called out the sinners so to speak, but I see no sign of the disciples being anything but loving and considerate of the people they were teaching.
            Homosexuals love each other so doesn’t that mean they are of God? It is not about loving God – it’s about sex. We must condemn the sin but not the sinner because everyone is a possible convert even people who sin big sins.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You should stop using the word “OMG.” It’s swearing and a blasphemy.

          • Sharon_at_home

            “Oh My Goodness” is blasphemy? Just because you look at it and see OMG and that it includes the Lord’s name, doesn’t mean that is how I put it (actually I try to remember to put Goodness to make it clear, but I guess I was jut astonished that you were judging me.
            I try to take things and put them into more reasonable wording.
            I’ve often wondered about this phrase because I have heard Christians use it in every day occurrences that happen. I believed they said “Oh My God” as a statement about them believing in God more than it being against God.
            How is it blasphemy and swearing to say Oh My God? I don’t use it myself because I prefer goodness, but I don’t know why you view it that way. Help me understand it please?

          • Sharon_at_home

            I’ve read the bible thoroughly thank you! And since I model my life by how Jesus lived and wanted us to live, I believe I know Jesus fairly well. I have had a while to go through the Gospel and actually HEAR what Jesus wants us to live, and how to treat others.
            Jesus did a lot of things because of the times He was in. He had to make some of his points in order to shake the people up because a lot of them didn’t care about sinning and didn’t understand what were sins either. If he didn’t already have their respect and awe, and he didn’t use His power to make them listen to them, I think they’d probably have stoned him. That was how they dealt with people who insulted them I believe.

            No you aren’t being too rude, as you seemed to use your words reasonably rather than like you were striking out at me. I don’t usually call someone rude unless they are saying things that are insulting to people I care about, or myself.

            I think YOU have missed how Jesus talked to the multitudes about their lives, about sin, about what God intended His people to behave like. did you miss that He said to love everyone? Or how about the commandment Jesus made ‘treat people the way you want to be treated?’
            Did you miss it when Jesus said to let our light shine so people will see it and Glorify God?
            Do you really think I don’t know my bible? I may not know all of the scripture well, but I sure do know what Jesus said in the gospels and it was not said in hatred. I love Jesus so much I want to be just like Him in all my ways. Since He is all about love, I’m not finding it burdensome.
            I said this to someone else too. Do you believe that God wants us all to have the same approach to sinning and sinners? There are many people with many different needs when it comes to life. You can’t always speak like Jesus did to the worst sinners to all people and get your words to be meaningful to them. I’ll try to give you an example… you shouldn’t approach someone in a grocery store and tell them that they are sinners and you are destined for Hell because of it. Regular people are not going to be happy to be called a sinner going to hell. Most people don’t do “big” sins but the sins that are not obvious unless you are aware of how God sees it.
            So therefore if you are talking about LGBT, there are more ways to try to help them convert, than just calling them sinners and condemning them for their sins, I don’t punish people for their sins. That is not my responsibility, it’s God. What I do is help them understand what their sin is, and what God says about it, but I don’t stress out about it. Each person has to make their own decisions about God and about sin. I can’t force people to listen to me/believe in God/ or to be baptized. All we can do is tell them and pray for them, and hope that they will choose Jesus.
            I’m sorry if that doesn’t fit into your agenda, but it does mine. God has us all do things for him and He enables each one of us to be able to do the tasks He gives us.
            Why can’t the way God wants me to do my duty is by adjusting how to help people come to Jesus in a way that they need it told?
            I kind of resent you inferring that I am not a good Christian. I don’t say your way is wrong and you are a bad Christian for the way you behave. (although I might have at one time to be honest) God has a purpose for each of us and we can’t know what it is until He reveals it to us. I believe God enabled me to see the other side to situations.
            God bless!

        • yabruf

          Why would you assume she is a Christian?

          • Parodyx

            Because she understands the same things Christ did – compassion, kindness, tolerance.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Christ is holy and truth-telling, too.

      • Malleus

        I never said they all prey on children. But so many of them do, and we’re talking about the health and safety of children. It’s simply not worth the risk to put them in harm’s way. Pit bulls are responsible for one third of the dog bites in the US – does that mean all pit bulls are dangerous? No, but obviously it would be very foolish for someone with kids in the home to bring in a pit bull as a pet, and put their kids’ lives in danger. We’ve reached a point in our culture where people are afraid to speak up about the very real dangers that homosexuals pose to children. The fear of being called “bigots” and “homophobes” has turned many parents into cowards. It’s very sad.

        • yabruf

          Ok I will say it then. All sodomites are pedophiles.

          It’s not if they have abused a child, it’s when will they abuse a child.

          Why would you put an innocent child in a home with a person God describes as :

          “Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.” – Romans 1:29-32