Ontario Passes Bill Empowering Government to Seize Children From ‘Abusive’ Caregivers Who Disallow Gender Transitions

ONTARIO — Concerns are mounting over a recently passed bill in Canada that has been interpreted as empowering the government to seize children from homes where their parents or caregivers “abusively” refuse to allow the child to “transition” into the opposite sex.

Ontario’s Bill 89, also known as “The Supporting Children, Youth and Families Act of 2017,” instructs the government that when the “best interests” of a child are to be taken into consideration, “the child’s race, ancestry, place of origin, color, ethnic origin, citizenship, family diversity, disability, creed, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity and gender expression” are to be among the factors given thought.

“I would consider that a form of abuse, when a child identifies one way and a caregiver is saying, ‘No, you need to do this differently,'” Minister of Child and Family Services Michael Coteau, who introduced the bill, told QP Briefing in February. “If it’s abuse, and if it’s within the definition, a child can be removed from that environment and placed into protection where the abuse stops.”

After the bill passed last week 63-23, he repeated his sentiments, noting that he is not saying children can be removed from the home simply because of parental disagreement, but only when the matter rises to the point of being considered abuse.

“[Y]ou can’t remove a kid because the parent disagrees with the fact that a child is gay. What you can do is remove a child if that child is being abused because of that,” Coteau told the outlet. “Abuse is abuse.”

“It’s the same way I would not allow a black child to be abused because they were black, or a Catholic child to be abused because they’re Catholic,” he stated.

The bill has therefore raised concern among pro-family groups who are expressing worriment over how the new law might be interpreted, and what might be considered abuse by the government.

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“With this law, parents are being coerced to help their children embrace their sexual confusion, instead of helping them to accept who they really are, as evidenced by their bodily reality,” Jack Fonseca, senior political strategist for the Campaign Life Coalition, told reporters.

Dr. Jordan Peterson, a psychology professor at the University of Toronto, likewise opined that he doesn’t believe that going along with one’s gender confusion is in the best interest of children.

“I don’t think that children’s best interests are being put forward by policies such as this. It’s a mistake, and we’re going to pay for it in a big way,” he said in April. “You’re not helping kids by radically confusing them about the identities that they might adopt. Not in my estimation. I don’t think that’s freedom. I think it’s confusion.”

Fonseca expressed frustration over the lack of outrage from people of faith.

“The lack of spiritual leadership is killing us. Every single time that liberals, either federally or provincially, roll out the LGBT juggernaut to take away our rights, or to demonize us as bigots, we hear nothing but silence from the Church,” he lamented. “This has to stop.”


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  • Judy Zwyghuizen

    Where do these young children get this from in the first place??? they auto-matically except their born gender it take a sick adult to be telling them other option’s out their!

    • https://smultronstalletoutsidethecamp.wordpress.com Smultronstället

      Media and education. They start early. This is why homeschooling will soon be forbidden everywhere like it already is in many European countries. Western “Conservatives” will applaud because they can always sell it as fighting against Islamic “extremism.”

      • Ambulance Chaser

        What is your evidence that children develop the idea to become trans from the media?

      • Becky

        So true. In the US, the homosexual activist groups that infiltrated the public school system have kindergartners going through the “saturation period”, so in a few short years these children will look upon homosexuality…all sexual immorality…as utterly normal and good. These groups have made children their #1 target in order to help them change the world into the days of Sodom. Homeschooled children are certainly on their radar and I pray that these parents realise what is coming and take steps to protect themselves now.

  • Judy Zwyghuizen

    How mush do we have to accept from these corrupt Bi-sexual’s teaching our children this crap??/ how can they allow these people to get into these children’s head’s confusing them !

    • Amos Moses

      agree but …. language ……….

  • Colin Rafferty

    Here’s the money quote from this article: ‘when the “best interests” of a child are to be taken into consideration, “the child’s race, ancestry, place of origin, color, ethnic origin, citizenship, family diversity, disability, creed, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity and gender expression” are to be among the factors given thought.’

    What’s wrong with this? How is using this information to help place a child in foster care wrong? Or getting other social services?

    If an orphan is Christian, should he be placed in a Muslim home that will convert him? Probably not. Or if a child is gay, should he be placed in a home that will deny his sexual orientation? No.

    What is wrong with accepting children for who they are, and putting their best interests forward?

    • Amos Moses

      “sexual orientation, gender identity and gender expression””What is wrong with accepting children for who they are, and putting their best interests forward?”

      a child will tell you it is in their best interest to eat candy all day long …… what could possibly go wrong …..

      here is what could go wrong ……. a child ….. HAS NO IDEA what is in their best interest …. ESPECIALLY “sexual orientation, gender identity and gender expression” ………….

      • Parodyx

        And you do, Amos? I know your feelings towards LGBT people. You would basically feeding them poison – frankly they would be better off with candy.

        • Amos Moses

          no …. you do not know my feelings …… i would have them saved and in Christ Jesus and alive and well and healed and off the path to self-destruction …..

          A man identifies as a female hippopotamus and the scientific magazine that supports him

          on the utube machine …….

          • Parodyx

            You aren’t medically or psychologically qualified to know what is best for a child who is realizing for the first time that they are homosexual, or possibly transgendered.

          • Amos Moses

            mostly …. because it is NOT and has not one thing to do with anything ” medically or psychologically” ……… has to do with the spirit and with SIN …………

          • Parodyx

            Yes, and by all means keep using Nair as a hair tonic, too…

          • Amos Moses

            straw man ……….. flame on ……….

          • Parodyx

            Look up “straw man”, you clearly don’t know what it means.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            But he uses it constantly.

          • Amos Moses

            you clearly cant hold a discussion without bringing one up ……… nothing was said about “nair” ……

          • Parodyx

            If you keep looking to supernatural answers about matters that can already be answered by science, you are using the wrong tool for the job, just as someone who uses Nair who thinks it’s going to grow hair on him.

          • Amos Moses

            nope ….. the bible had the answers LOOOOOOONG before “science” pretended to know ……. oh …. and ….. Adam West, TV’s ‘Batman,’ Dies at 88 ……… 🙁

          • Parodyx

            The Bible says nothing about homosexuality, except for a few passages which some have INTERPRETED to mean homosexuality (see, even YOU can’t escape interpretation). And that was 2000 years ago, our scientific methods are vastly improved since then.

          • Amos Moses

            bible say PLENTY about it ………. FAIL ………… when the bible says men acting with men as a woman “men with men” …… not much room for guessing ……….. or the same for women …… FAIL ………..

            1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
            1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

          • Parodyx

            There are MANY people who will tell you those verses refer to male prostitution.

          • Amos Moses

            and there are many people who ……. 1. do not know what they are talking about ………….. 2. think that makes a difference ……. 3. even if it does say that, and it does not, it makes no difference ……….. they are bringing their idolatry to the text ….. which coincidentally ….. IS ABOUT homosexual and fleshly IDOLATRY ….

          • Parodyx

            Why would a just and loving God create people with unchangeable sexual attractions to the same gender only just to punish them for it?

          • Amos Moses

            “unchangeable sexual attractions”

            in order for Him to be just ….. there must be injustice for Him to be just ….. for Him to be loving ….. there are needs for Him to hate certain things ….. you do not get love without hate …… you do not get justice without injustice …… and it is NOT unchangeable ….. that is a lie …….. they choose their sins ….. God does not force them to choose ….. they follow the evil intents of their hearts which are desperately wicked at all times ……….

          • TheKingOfRhye

            A strawman argument is “an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent’s real argument.” Unless Parodyx was actually claiming that you literally attempt to use Nair as a hair tonic, that was an analogy, not a strawman.

          • Amos Moses

            yeah ….. EXACTLY what he did ………..

          • TheKingOfRhye

            No, he didn’t, he even explained the analogy (which I thought was pretty obviously an analogy) in his next reply to you.

          • Amos Moses

            wrong ….. his explanation was garbage ………. it was just a straw man trying to say christians reject science ….. and that is all it was …….. garbage ……..

          • TheKingOfRhye

            He didn’t say that Christians reject science. He might have been suggesting that YOU reject science, but that’s different.

          • Amos Moses

            well this is a christian forum …… so it makes no difference …… and there is no real science to support his conclusions ………..

          • TheKingOfRhye

            How does this being a Christian forum mean there is no difference between accusing you of something and accusing all Christians of the same thing? Are you saying you speak for all Christians? I’d bet I’d find at least some Christians here who wouldn’t want that.

          • Amos Moses

            it is plainly obvious ….. i have no fear of true science …… i have never said anything else ….. i have a 20 year career in a science field …… it was a slam against christians …… so please save your crocodile tears ………. oh, and ….. Adam West, TV’s ‘Batman,’ Dies at 88 ………

          • TheKingOfRhye

            It is “plainly obvious” how there is no difference between accusing you and accusing all Christians? It’s not “plainly obvious” to me, that’s why I asked you the question, I thought you might explain it.

            And Quahog, RI will never be the same.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Then why does medical science keep finding explanations for it?

          • Amos Moses

            false science is not science ….. the “science” you site is devoid of God …. and so invalid …… and we have been over this before ……..

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Okay, why is it false? (Other than the fact that it comes to conclusions you don’t like)

          • Amos Moses

            it comes to conclusions devoid of truth and devoid of God …. my “feelings” or my “likes” has nothing to do with it ………….

          • Ambulance Chaser

            I don’t care whether the conclusions are “devoid of God,” and neither does the scientific establishment.

            As for truth, how do you know?

          • Amos Moses

            ummmm ….. if you are in the truth ….. HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW ………. false science means nothing ……. you may follow whatever idol you want ……. lies do not become the truth because a “scientist” says it is ………… and again ….. just because a “scientist” says something …… DOES NOT MAKE IT SCIENCE ……………

          • Ambulance Chaser

            No, if that scientist performs experiments and assembles evidence it DOES make it science, and it DOES make it very likely to be true.

            So, what’s incorrect about these experiments or their conclusions?

          • Amos Moses

            if that “scientist” removes God from his observations …… it is garbage …….. and it is NOT science ……… science is not truth ….. it is a methodology ….. it might reveal the truth …… but not if the “scientist” is not in the truth …… God is the truth ….. not “science” ………

          • Amos Moses

            truth is the measure of science …… not the other way around ………..

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Are you saying all science that is “devoid of God” is invalid? What if an atheist and a Christian arrive at the same scientific conclusions, then? Are their conclusions simultaneously valid and invalid? (sounds kind of Schrodinger’s-cat-ish…)

          • Amos Moses

            “Are you saying all science that is “devoid of God” is invalid?”

            ummmmmmm ……. YUP ……………. an a-theist might STUMBLE into the truth …… might …… but any independent conclusions are invalid ……….

          • TheKingOfRhye

            There are way too many atheists/non-believers who have made huge contributions to science and technology than would be just the result of “stumbling into the truth”.

          • Amos Moses

            and there are even more christians who have confirmed some of their work …….. and that which has not is garbage ………… and BTW ….. without christians ….. and God …. you would have no reliable science …… because He created a stable universe for that to take place …

          • Sharon_at_home

            So how do Christian Scientists work out? In your statement, Christian and Science is not something that should be done together, as one is a sin, which would be the science part.
            Christian Scientists are just as Christian as we are, and they chose to become Scientists. In your way of looking at it, wouldn’t it be God that directed them to be the best that they can be as Christians?
            How do you look at that career?

          • Bob Johnson

            Actually, Christian Scientists are a religious group which in many ways reject science. The founding basic premise is that all sickness can be cured with prayer alone. Christian Science is based on the philosophy that reality is purely spiritual and that the material world is an illusion.

          • Sharon_at_home

            well I didn’t really mean those specifically. I actually meant people who are Christians and are scientists too. I should have been clearer when I posted it.
            Thanks Bob I appreciate you pointing out my error.
            Keep smiling!

          • Amos Moses

            “So how do Christian Scientists work out?”

            are you talking about Mary Baker Eddy and that Christian Science set of beliefs ….. or something else ………….

            my statement is that science is ONLY done correctly when God is part of the result …… to remove God is to void it as science ……. because it removes from the evidence of Gods hand and denies God as part of the creation ……….

            christians have absolutely nothing to fear from science ……. but what many are want to call “science” ….. isnt ……………

          • Sharon_at_home

            If a scientist was Christian was what I was looking for.
            Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.: Albert Einstein.
            I expect there are some people who are looking for God with a scientific examination. Either way, We know that God created everything, but others don’t necessarily believe in it and really TBH you are wasting your time commenting on this kind of topic. There is never discussion about it, and you have to remember that what we believe is not what the world believes and we are supposed to be different than the World. It isn’t necessary to fight about every thing people disagree about. Try picking your battles so you might actually get someone to listen to what you are saying. Science vs Religion is not a battle that either side can win, decide just because it takes faith to believe that God created the Earth. They will not be able to see what a believer sees, they are not able to, unless they convert and believe. Just leave it alone. Go on to a subject that you might be able to show someone about Jesus, because you will never win this argument.
            Besides, this really is not about science vs religion, it’s about taking children away from someone.
            Blessings Amos

          • Amos Moses

            well i did not bring up the topic ….. it has shifted …. and i do not totally disagree with you ….. but science is their idol ….. it needs to be knocked down and put in its proper perspective …..

          • Sharon_at_home

            I don’t think that God is as concerned about how the non-believers behave, because it will be to their sorrow when it’s time. He does however care if we keep spreading the gospel to everyone. Even people you believe are not worthy, try anyways without the disgust of the person getting in the way. Jesus wants everyone. That is our main duty as disciples of the living God.
            You should try it sometime.

          • Sharon_at_home

            I thought you believed God was in total control of everything that happens in the world?
            Shouldn’t you have the confidence in God to know that everything is happening for a reason and will come out the way he wants it to?

            You have to learn to pick your battles so you have a better chance of victory Amos. Or all it will be is a fight with no winners at all. Choose the things you have backing on in the bible, but don’t expect the others to just accept it. Try to explain it in the way they can understand it, otherwise there is no need to even comment. If you can’t be like Christ with other people, do his work in another way. It does not show Christianity in a good light if people think we are just bull-headed. You have to have good arguments for other people because they don’t necessarily know what you do know, and we have to teach others about the gospel. Talk to people in your Church or community that need your help with the scriptures. Don’t put yourself in a position of judging other people’s sins, because it is not supposed to interfere with our good behaviour and it obvious that you have a hard time telling people about their sin and trying to lead them to Salvation because of your belief that sins are to be Told Bluntly and Hatefully like the person is all about their sin, instead of remembering that we are all sinners that must repent. If you do the work using the gift God gave you to know the scriptures and understand your church Doctrine and the knowledge you have to share with others. You must know He doesn’t want ALL of us doing the same job He knows we need people to help us with our understanding of the scriptures so they can keep them within the religion too. Since you know things you can pass on to others learning what you can help them with. It would strengthen your faith even more than it already is, and it will help someone else to learn to love the bible as much as you do.
            I think it would make you a much happier man to share your knowledge to others who need it, instead of using it to bicker with others on a comment board. Honestly. I have only good intentions when I say this. I do not mean it for any other reason than to encourage you to use your gift of the bible and your church doctrine to teach others. Many of your posts get lost in the name calling and casting of stones, so they won’t really help anyone even the silent people on the boards. And if they are not in your religion, they won’t think the behavior is Christ like.
            I do hope you will consider it.
            I ask that God bless you with the knowledge and understanding that you will need to make a life changing move for Christ, and the strength and the faith to get you all the way through it. In Jesus’ name I pray, Amen.

          • Amos Moses

            it is all under His control ….. God can act actively or passively ….. and it still comes out the way He planned it …..

            “I think it would make you a much happier man to share your knowledge to others who need it, instead of using it to bicker with others on a comment board. ”

            that is part of His active plan and intervention …… and i am “happy” ….. whatever that means ………… i have the blessed assurance of my destination ….. and those people you seem to think i “bicker with” …… were put in my path for a reason ………….

          • Amos Moses

            BTW …. i notice a number of them have “disappeared” along with their comments …………

          • Amos Moses

            Eddy’s Science and Health reinterprets key Christian concepts, including the Trinity, divinity of Jesus, atonement and resurrection; from the 1883 edition she included a glossary that redefined the Christian vocabulary, and added with a Key to the Scriptures to the title. At the core of Eddy’s theology is the view that the spiritual world is the only reality and is entirely good, and that the material world, with its evil, sickness and death, is an illusion. Eddy saw humanity as an “idea of Mind” that is “perfect, eternal, unlimited, and reflects the divine,” according to Bryan Wilson; what she called “mortal man” is simply humanity’s distorted view of itself. Despite her view of the non-existence of evil, an important element of Christian Science theology is that evil thought, in the form of malicious animal magnetism, can cause harm, even if the harm is only apparent.

            Eddy viewed God not as a person, but as “All-in-all.” Although she often described God as if discussing personhood—she used the term “Father–Mother God” (as did Ann Lee, the founder of Shakerism), and in the third edition of Science and Health referred to God as “she”—God is mostly represented in Christian Science by the synonyms “Mind, Spirit, Soul, Principle, Life, Truth, Love.” The Holy Ghost is Christian Science, and heaven and hell are states of mind.

            so outside of orthodoxy and outside of christianity ……. so not christian ……..

          • Sharon_at_home

            It sounded for a minute there that you were endorsing this Eddy’s Science. I should have known better.
            Thanks Amos for your input.

          • getstryker

            Ah yes, ye ole ‘Tranimal’ . . . whew!

      • Colin Rafferty

        It’s a good thing that candy and treats were not on that list.

        • Oboehner

          Good thing you didn’t address the content of Amos’ post either, you would have looked foolish.

        • Amos Moses

          its a bad thing that “sexual orientation, gender identity and gender expression” ….. and that is the point ………….

          • Colin Rafferty

            You are right, in this day and age, it is in someone’s best interest to be straight. And this law is trying to set it right.

            A child is gay, or not. And if a child is gay, it is in their best interest to be put into a home that does not abuse them for this preference.

          • Amos Moses

            ummmm …. CHILDREN ….. do NOT HAVE a sexual preference ………. and it is mentally ill adults and proto-pedophiles who are imposing it on them ……….

          • Colin Rafferty

            Sure they do. Children are not neuters. They have attractions and crushes and feelings and ways of thinking.

            I agree that we should not be imposing a particular sexual preference on people. Let them feel how they feel, and treat them with respect. Which is the point of this law — don’t allow abuse of children because of who they are.

          • Amos Moses

            again …….. children …. all children …. regardless of age ….. and adults ….. regardless of age ….. have an “orientation” to SIN ….. and nothing else ………….

          • Colin Rafferty

            That’s a terrible thing to say about people. Please speak for yourself, and don’t pin your guilty feelings on others.

          • Amos Moses

            GOD has spoken for you ….. to all of us ….. you take it up with Him …………

          • Colin Rafferty

            Don’t blame your god for your hateful words. If you want to say “God said, all children are sinners”, that’s fine. But if instead you’re just saying “all children are sinners”, that’s on you.

          • Amos Moses

            no, no, no ….. YOUR issue is not with me ….. YOUR issue is with God …… and God said …… every man (and all men begin as children) are sinners …….. PERIOD ……. you stand condemned just as everyone else ………..

          • Colin Rafferty

            I don’t care what you think your god said. I care what you say. You are saying ‘all men have a “orientation” to SIN’. You blame your god for your beliefs, but that’s just cowardice. Take responsibility for your statements and your beliefs. If all you’re going to do is make horrible statements about people, and then blame someone else for your statements, that’s taking the coward’s way out.

            You say ‘all men have a “orientation” to SIN’. Don’t blame someone else for your beliefs.

          • Amos Moses

            “I don’t care what you think your god said”

            OBVIOUSLY ….. and i do not have to think it ….. i can read it …………..

            “You blame your god for your beliefs”

            no … YOU blame God for what He has said …… and you reject it ….. as you reject God ……

          • Colin Rafferty

            Oh, I’m sorry. I guess you don’t actually think all children are sinners. You were just quoting someone, and don’t believe it yourself. It’s all the ellipses in your writing that threw me. Sorry I misunderstood.

            Because I don’t think all children are inherently sinners, either.

          • Amos Moses

            “I guess you don’t actually think all children are sinners.”

            let me fix that for you ………. “Oh, I’m sorry. I guess you —- actually think all children are sinners.”

          • Sharon_at_home

            I don’t think blame is the right word, Colin.
            If we believe in following our God, it is a belief that we should live the way He says.
            God does tell us that it is in ‘mans’ nature to sin. The crux of the matter is what the sins are to god, and what the non-religious people think are sins.
            So it not exactly the belief that makes us feel some things are sin, it is just as likely just the opinion the person has themselves and the fact that they don’t consider the people to be able to ever change. I am trying to understand about the fact that people believe this dysphoria can be a fact, and I look at it from my religious view that they are still people who could learn about salvation and choose to repent. So in my view, It is a sin to me because of my religion, but I can’t foresee the future, only God can, so I am to treat them as any other person, and love them as God commanded me to.
            If someone is brought up from birth in a religious household, they will believe that the sins against God are sins themselves. It’s like their religion is the only thing they know so they will always defend what it says. Especially in older people. I’ve seen it at my church, and it’s only because I was not born into a religious house that I am aware of it.
            Does that make any sense to you. Basically his own opinion is the same as his faith’s opinion. There is no other opinion in his eyes.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Oh, wait a minute….you’re going with that old argument that NO ONE has any sexual orientation, aren’t you? I honestly don’t see how anyone can think that, at least judging by my own personal experience. I mean, I don’t know about you, but I knew what my orientation was pretty early on. In other words, it was one gender and not the other whom I had grade-school crushes on and all that.

          • Amos Moses

            your “experience” is not at issue …… your “feelings” are not at issue …… it is not an “orientation” issue other than it is a SIN issue …… and all men have a “orientation” to SIN ….. and nothing else …………..

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “and all men have a “orientation” to SIN”

            Hmm…just a question, how does that work with what you were telling me not too long ago, about how some people are predestined to be saved, and the others are predestined to be damned, or however you want to put it? God creates even his ‘elect’ with a ‘orientation to sin’, is that what you’re saying? Then what makes them different from anybody else?

          • Sharon_at_home

            TBH there is not ‘difference’ between Christians whether they are what Amos calls the Elect or just “Christians”. They still have to stop sinning to be able to get Salvation. They are different because we are told that we are chosen by God for our Trust and belief in Him so we are called to stand out in the world to let people see us and give God the Glory because we represent God, and if people are influenced by the people that show the light of God. Amos is a different kind of Christian than others are that are not of his faith. It takes all kinds to make the world go ’round.
            Keep smiling!

          • TheKingOfRhye

            ” Amos is a different kind of Christian than others are that are not of his faith.”

            Yeah, that’s pretty obvious just by comparing him to most of the Christians I know personally, if nothing else.

          • Parodyx

            But the difference is that Amos is a TRUE Scotsman. I mean, Christian.

          • Sharon_at_home

            LOLOLOL So good! Thanks for the laugh and the smile as I leave for church. That was so awesome! Blessings!

          • Parodyx

            Well, he is guilty of the No True Scotsman Fallacy so often and doesn’t think it applies to Christians. So every time he delivers such a perfect example of it, I feel the need to point it out.

          • Sharon_at_home

            I agree but it is because of his religion itself, not Christianity. The way he views himself is how he has been taught, rather than being encouraged to read the bible and use it for the tools of our lives, and to be able to work out our own salvation. The way his church tells them to behave towards people of other faith even contradicts what Jesus told us. They try to give me scriptures to substantiate their views, but they don’t allow the scriptures I give them that show Jesus in the light he wants us to be showing. They think of him like he was all God, not part human with human-like views about the life of the people, so they don’t understand that he was kind and loving, but think of him speaking harshly even to the multitudes. To the Christians you know Jesus is Love and acts with that love, to their church they seem to look at Jesus as a very harsh speaking man.At least that is what I finally was able to understand after a lot of back and forth with Amos – taking more patience than I had, so I had to take a break before I went back. But I finally understand why some Christians, like Amos, are so hateful and demeaning. It’s totally dependent on the religion and it’s because of what and how they were taught. They honestly believe that they are supposed to act badly to sinners. They say it is about the love that wants them to repent and receive salvation but they don’t seem to separate the love and the hate of the sin.
            Thanks for your reply! I do appreciate the Christians, and their friends, who are not like Amos to point it out that they do not agree with him and his brethren of faith. It is becoming natural for people to think of those Christians instead of the rest of us and we need to stop that.
            We need to show our lights brighter than they speak their hate. People will never listen to the rest of us, if we don’t start standing out and proving that Christians are not like they are.

          • TheKingOfRhye


            It is becoming natural for people to think of those Christians instead of the rest of us and we need to stop that.”

            I grew up in a family of Christians, and for that matter a lot of my friends and acquaintances and people I respect are Christians as well, and most of them are a lot more like you than Amos, so I know that.

          • Sharon_at_home

            I appreciate your telling me that. I’m glad that I show what we are supposed to be like.
            It’s good to know it’s better away from this board too. I don’t have a lot of people who are religious except those of my church. Most of the people around me are not Christians that press on for their salvation. The believe in “God” but not the one in the bible necessarily, just “a” God. Nothing firm about their belief, kind of people. I don’t “hang” with them, but they are people around where I live so it’s about showing them than talking about it because they are not concerned about Salvation so much as the next drink. It’s sad and I hate to see it, but that is the group I see most as I am going out or into my apartment building.
            Thanks again, King, Take care of yourself and Keep smiling!

          • Jason Todd

            Jesus isn’t a hippie, Sharon.

          • Sharon_at_home

            Really? wow I guess I’m confused. LOL (just a little sarcasm)
            Jason can you really read my posts and not see that I know the bible pretty well? Just because our religions do not believe the same thing about the gospel does not mean we have to be demeaning about each others religions to each other.
            I don’t believe Jesus is anything like a hippie, Jason. You just don’t seem to want to read the scriptures that show that Jesus was more about love and telling the people what is good behaviour and what are sins. His compassion and the way he spoke to the multitudes was not in a harsh way. You can determine that by the way it was said.
            His final commandment told us to love each other. Why would you not realize that he was more about love than about punishment and anger about the people who sin when he felt they had to be taught about sin in the first place?
            The only places that Jesus got angry were when there were prophecies to fulfill. The Scribes and the Pharisees were hypocrites that were not teaching the laws correctly to the students. They corrupted what they told them, as well as lived in a way that did not show how the students should behave. He was angry because the Word of God was not being taught the way it was supposed to be. He’ll be angry if any of us try to teach the bible incorrectly, but he won’t punish anyone until Judgement day for it. At that point, however, he was able to show his anger towards them corrupting his word. It also made it clear that the Word is not to be changed.
            You really should ask God for understanding and go over the gospel again with on open mind to the love he was showing the world how much he loved us, not only with his actions, but with the commandment and by his being crucified. God gave his only begotten son to be sacrificed so we could be reconciled with God and not have so many laws to follow.
            You also have to understand that Love covers all the sins. If we love each other, we will not want to hurt each other by sinning against them. If the whole world believed in the same thing, there would not be wars or any conflicts like that. Because when we love someone, we try to find a way to stop ourselves from hurting them. That has always been what God wanted in evidence of the multiple times he told them of his love, the times he wanted the people to love him back. He created us and it is his desire as a creator to expect the people to be grateful for the life he created for us. He shows his love when he helped the ones that were grateful, win battles, defeat foes. The victories were dependent on the power of God. He gave them the victories because he loved them and they loved him back, against the people who were not grateful for the life he has given them, and don’t worship their creator, but instead worshiped false Gods that could do nothing for them to give them what they needed to survive.
            It also says in the bible, that God IS Love. Why would you think of a harsh love instead of a compassionate God’s love after reading the Gospel?
            I hope that gives you something to think about Jason and hopefully that will make you read over the gospel to see whether Jesus was more often loving and compassionate, than the few times of anger that he was foreseen doing.
            Blessings!

          • Sharon_at_home

            I should have thought to mention this too: The whole hippie generation was about Jesus. They wanted the peace and love that Jesus called for too. That’s why the men grew their hair long, and wore tunics like the ones that Jesus would have world. There were many young men in that decade that looked like the image of Jesus that is well known around the world.
            The only thing I can honestly say did not come from Jesus is about the “free love movement” – God did not agree with fornication or lust at situations that they wanted to be “free” Obviously. But the Peace and Love part of that generation had it’s origins from Jesus in the bible. At least they were around my neighbourhood.

          • Amos Moses

            God chooses whom He chooses ……. and He mercies whom He will mercy ….. it is His choice ….. we are all sinners ….. so all He chooses from are sinners ….. how He decides that ….. i can only guess ……but all men have a wicked and deceitful heart that they follow …… until God/Christ intervenes ……….. and He does all the choosing ………. men will never choose Him ….. they are not capable of that choice ….. it is a spiritual choice …. and all men are spiritually dead and unable to choose God ….. again …. until God intervenes ……

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Prove it.

          • Amos Moses

            children …. all children …. regardless of age ….. and adults ….. regardless of age ….. have an “orientation” to SIN ….. and nothing else ………….

          • Sharon_at_home

            Ambulance Chaser I won’t say they don’t have a sexual orientation at a young age, but from my own experience, children go through stages and some of them do go through a process that could lead them to wanting to be different than their biological body. (that is the definition of dysphoria, correct?) I’d like to know what age this is considered to be a definite decision for a child? When does it start to be considered abuse to treat your child as the sex you know them as?
            If I didn’t make that clear, let me know and I’ll try again!
            Blessings A.C. Have a Great day!

          • Ambulance Chaser

            I think it depends on when the child’s therapist is reasonably satisfied that it’s not changing. I don’t honestly know though. I would recommend you review the literature from GLAAD, PFLAG, or the HRC.

          • Sharon_at_home

            Thank you AC. You always give me answers that show your honesty. I’m much happier to be told you don’t know and where to find it out for myself. Thanks for being here for me! Blessings!

    • https://smultronstalletoutsidethecamp.wordpress.com Smultronstället

      You want the government to take boys out of Christian families and cut off their penises; you are a monster.

      • Colin Rafferty

        Yes, if that were the case, I certainly would be a monster.

        • Oboehner

          You don’t care, after all children are just “skin tags” as you so eloquently put it.

          • Colin Rafferty

            Aren’t you embarrassed to intentionally misinterpret my clear statements? Don’t you feel even a little bit unclean?

            A blastocyst is less than a skin tag. That’s my statement.

          • Parodyx

            And all homosexuals are just “perverts” as you put it.

    • Sharon_at_home

      Colin, this article included parents that are not supportive of their own child’s sexual orientation. It isn’t just about foster care givers.
      It also does not go into what they consider as abusive to a child about this.
      That is what bothers me about this. To some people just telling the child that they were born ‘male’ when they “want” to be female is considered abuse. Abuse should be determined before hand so the workers can not use their own definitions of abuse instead of what the government says it is. Too many times we hear about cases of children being removed because of the workers personal beliefs, instead of a reasonable, widely held view on what the subject was about. They should not be able to remove a child from their parents for wanting their child to be the sex they were born as. I also object how the family services just takes the children away from their parents and then it is worked out . The children should be left in the home with people going over things with the parents until there is understanding so the “abuse” ends, and the family is together.
      The other thing is, what about religious parents with a child who wants to be the other sex? Do they lose their children because their religion is against this? Also they do not mention other children in the house, do they take them away too? (they do this in other abusive situations that involve just one child)
      Where does it stop when it is a situation like that? It shouldn’t be against the law to remove a child in this situation in keeping with the religious beliefs of the household? You don’t believe that it should not matter about the religious beliefs do you? – that’s taking away our right to be religious and to teach our own children the beliefs we have.

      • Bob Johnson

        Abuse is legally defined as, “Any recent act or failure to act on the part of a parent or caretaker which results in death, serious physical or emotional harm, sexual abuse or exploitation”; or. “An act or failure to act which presents an imminent risk of serious harm.” Police officers can not simply redefine the law as they wish.

        This is why removing the child from this environment is often mandated – for the safety of the child. If the parents and child are working on a problem and they disagree with their church’s official position this is not abuse.

        To remove a child or children requires a police officer to first put the child into protective custody for a maximum of 72 hours. After that requires a court order signed by a judge. Rule of law.

        Are there abuses of this system? Yes, the system is designed to provide safety first for the child and any other children that may require a safe place. These same laws also apply to elder abuse.

        • Sharon_at_home

          Thank you Colin, I knew you could help me understand better.
          I guess it’s my life experiences again that have taught me that in Ontario at least, The Family Services are known as “a law unto itself”; even to lawyers that try to help someone with what they are accusing them of.
          I know this because I stood up for a young lady who was pregnant. She was over 18 but I can’t remember her age right now.
          She had had experiences with Family Services only because her mother was mentally ill and someone reported something she did to Family Services. I have no idea what it was for, but the girl was given back – likely after the 72 hr thing here. When they found out she was pregnant they made her move into a home for young pregnant women that was for the purpose of teaching the women how to take care of their babies, in every way. Even cooking for themselves was in the “course”. The Family Services decided that she wouldn’t be capable of being a good mother so they were going to take the baby away at birth.
          So I stuck my nose in because it was being forced on the girl, she did not want to give up the baby. Besides that, I knew the girl well enough to be able to know she could manage especially with the course they were supposed to give her while she was at the home.
          I felt that they were wrong and were persecuting her for how she acted when she was much much younger in maturity than she behaved when I was around.
          So I told her to fight it. I looked at it like this, If the girl was going to be forced to give up her baby, in the future if she ever looked into her biological mother to know why she was given up, the child would know from the fight in court that the mother loved that baby and did not want to give her up. That can make a world of a difference to an adopted child when they find out why their mother gave them up. I think that is important when someone is forced to do something like this, they have the chance to argue it, even if it is a waste of time in truth, because it will make a difference later in the life of the child.
          I had another experience with F.S. with a girl we took in after her father died. That is when I was told by a lawyer that Family Services were a law unto themselves. When I look in the news and see children dying because they didn’t bother with them, or because they knew there was abuse and did not get the child out of the situation and as a result the child died. I’ve seen it so often since I have had to deal with them, it breaks my heart that these people have so much authority and abuse it so much without a hint of concern for the main person: the child.
          That is why I wanted to know if there is a problem with dysphoria and religion in a household if they would take the child for being taught about their family religion when they try to work through the problem with God helping.
          I see so much in the States where such awful things happen, and I haven’t had to know about much here in Ontario, because it wasn’t exposed to the public until the media got wind of it and we’ve always been behind in the different stages of violence that have been happening in the States, so when we start seeing something in the news that is was something that used to happen in the States, we could see how much it would affect our lives now that we had to live it too.
          It took some seriously good investigative journalism to break that wall about letting the public know when Family Services screwed up instead of hiding it. They are still reportedly trying to keep out of the news when something happens, but they are not able to hide as well now.
          I have no problem with taking a child out of a foster home where there is abuse, but I think Parents should be a different approach as long as it is not likely to end up with a dead child. Physical abuse is different than mental or emotional abuse as they are harder to see, and harder to deal with on both sides of the issue.
          Thanks again Colin, always like to know you will help me understand. There are a number of people I know will help me but I think all of you are good people and are becoming good friends, as much as a comment board can give you. I appreciate that you all accept that I am very faithful to my God but still know that I won’t fight with you, but listen to what you have to say so I can understand. God helps us with knowledge and understanding when we ask for it. So when I need it I am usually led to asking here. The lord is here with me leading me in what I do here, so I’m glad you recognize that there are Christians that don’t want to fight but only tell you the gospel to try to lead you to Jesus and your salvation. Personally, I’d rather smile than fight.

  • https://smultronstalletoutsidethecamp.wordpress.com Smultronstället

    If you had predicted this only a couple of years ago, you would have been a called a conspiracy theorist using the slippery slope fallacy.

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    At last, humanism’s dystopia. The English worships the rule of the law too much. It’s altogether meaningless and only harmful if the laws are evil. Canada needs Judeo-Christian values even for a common sense. Western nations have no morality apart from Christianity. Children should be taught to live out the birth gender, the only truth. Western whites should stop trying to control mankind by homosexuality and transgenderism. People should have freedom to categorize homosexuality and transgenderism as sins as those are. Freedom is for living out the truth, not falsehood or depravity.

  • Reason2012

    Is it abuse if the parents won’t let the kid live out other delusional fantasies as well, like “i’m a different race” or “I’m a dog”? Get active, folks: the perversion activists are in high gear, using kids to promote their sick agendas.

    • Ambulance Chaser

      And the answer is “we don’t know” because these questions haven’t been sufficiently explored by neurobiologists such that we have definitive answers on the subject. But they’re also irrelevant to the topic at hand.

      • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

        In other words, you’ve got no proof.

        • Ambulance Chaser

          For species dysphoria, no, but then, that’s not the topic of discussion here.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You have no proof for any of it.

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    Has Canada obtained a permission to do this kind of things from its Muslim masters? Western liberals should be nice to the Christians as they are nice to the Muslims.

    • Ambulance Chaser

      No, Islam doesn’t respect the rights of LGBT people any more than you do.

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        Canada is very obedient to Islam. Western liberals attack and bully only the Christians.

        • Colin Rafferty

          Maybe the issue is that you are mistaken. Maybe the confusion is that you misunderstand Canadian politics, and they aren’t actually submissive to Islam.

          It’s a possibility. Or of course, maybe you can explain how they are both submissive to Islam and support homosexual depravity at the same time. It’s a puzzlement.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Liberal Canada prohibits any negative opinions on Islam as well. Western liberals protect paganisms, atheism, and immorality, while bashing their own noble slender hard-working Christian ancestors and the current Christian population. Western liberals are villains because they single out and bully and persecute only the Christians.

            Western Sodomites have no discernment or even logic whatsoever because they lost Christianity. The Muslim population will cure the Western culture’s mentally-ill nudism. In that sense alone, it’s a win-win. Kids in secular nations need to know there are some non-nudist humans living on earth.

          • Colin Rafferty

            When did you start talking about nudists?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            This century. I get news from my Christian friends. Why can’t you get civilized like the Amish and dress up like some civilized people?

    • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

      In Canada, Islam is trumping homosexuality. They are allowing all kinds of abuse against the homosexual community in the name of Islam.

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        Liberals are not smart. We should pray they’ll lose power in the soonest time for everyone’s sake. I saw the Canadian whites, the descendants of the creators of Canada, not cherishing God or Christianity and fearing on offending the minorities all the time. They should appease God and not men. If the British colonies lose the Judeo-Christian values, nothing strong or meaningful stays there including North America.

        • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

          I agree with you but for who created Canada. Our First Nations people deserve a lot of credit for Canada, which is a Native name meaning “community”.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Canada celebrates the first tribes more than enough. Western whites should celebrate their own ancestors, the early white Christian settlers, to be good and be fair. White Christian tribes are the ones the whole world learned from and mimic after, not the first Mongoloid tribes. Many nations have those first tribes. It’s only the former British colony-nations who ignore the real creators of their nations. If the Western whites respect the yesteryears’ white Christian settlers, respect and fairness will return to the world.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            We would not have a country without the First Nations people who helped settlers survive. We owe them our gratitude. Perhaps you have not heard about the residential school problem in Canada, but when Christian PM Stephen Harper was in power, he apologized to First Nations people for it, and began making restitution. There is a revival of sorts breaking out among First Nations people that is quite wonderful, and it’s begun spreading across Canada. I hope it will spread across the world.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            But it’s the white Christian settlers who brought universal literacy and human rights and freedom and fairness to all nations. Or the rest of the world would have stayed as illiterate slaves to the local lords for-ever, including the first tribes in Canada. Literacy was necessary for the life-saving Bible-reading and everyone’s human rights and autonomy. That should be remembered more.

            The residential school problem is nothing comparing to what the pagans did against each other. North Americans do not know mankind’s real barbarisms and abuses, growing up with the civilized Protestant Christianity. Let Japan apologize to Asia first before Canada apologizes about how well they treated the Japanese in their cozy camps during the WW2.

            No one imitates the first tribes; everyone imitates the white people of the Christian era. Today’s Western people do not know the true worth of their long-held Christian religion; they should acknowledge their white Christian ancestors more. That’ll erase mush errors and disrespects and immorality in today’s world.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            It’s a myth that First Nations people were unlearned savages. They have contributed much to the west. In fact, the west would not be here without them. Many First Nations people and Christians automatically forged a friendship that Satan and his worldly followers fought against, and continue to fight against today.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            All humans are savages including the moderners. They massacre the unborns if not the neighboring tribes or new comers. The Church was not flawless, but only the Bible-following Christians conduct the civilized teaching among mankind. Every tribe has been barbaric one way or another and needed to get fixed by the Church. Every tribe contributed to mankind’s advancement, but not wholesomely. Barbarism is a heinous thing. Westerners from the former Christendom have no clue.

            Fight is inevitable among different tribes; power struggles exist where men exist. Western whites and their followers have forgotten the plain facts men simply fight; they must acknowledge the superiority and the unequal contributions of the Christian whites of yesteryears. The first trbes in North America must acknowledge their barbarism and illiteracy’s woes and not just European men’s abuses, to be fair and realistic.

            People lose land and the fruits of their hand to foreigners everywhere on earth all the time, not just them. I think God punished the pagans for the ongoing barbarism against women and children and weaker members of the tribes. Humans are savage evil everywhere. Humanist Westerners dream about humanity falsely because they always had the civilized Christianity with them.

            As long as the first tribes blame the white people, they cannot expect a better future. Admit the defeat and try to excel. It’s possible to master over the main population by excelling like the Jews do in many nations. One should wonder if the liberals are teaching the peoples of colors to maintain the losers’ mentality( white people did bad things, etc.) in order to keep them as losers so that they could keep control of the population.

            They use alcohol, too, but it’s the tribes’ unwillingness to work hard at the end. Christians and Jews don’t get tricked by the Western liberals. In any case, liberal whites’ education and entertainment has been bad to humanity. Mankind need Christian education

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Not every First Nation person was a barbarian. There were some who readily heard the Gospel and became Christians. Have you ever read any of David Brainerd’s writings? Or the history of the Cherokee nation? It’s quite inspiring.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Every tribe and culture has been barbaric before conversion to Christianity. North American whites don’t know much about raw mankind, having the civilized Christianity since the beginning. They always only complain about some lack of voting rights. Mankind’s problem of barbarism was nothing of such level.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Guest, I was thinking. Isn’t the liberals’ false history education a part of the reasons Western men no longer willing to protect the homeland with their women and children in it? I mean, their unwillingness to protect the homeland seems far more problematic than the foreign elements’ desire to destroy the Western nations. It’s a kind of disease of rich secular nations.

          • Bob Johnson

            Actually, down here in the lower 48 States part of North America, it was probably when young men realized that carpet bombing poor Southeast Asian countries was not really a requirement for the defense of our women and children. Locally, the homeland is doing OK, the supermarket is filling up with 4th of July BBQ supplies.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Americans should stay humble before the Lord God always. Every Sodom is destined to be nuked. Stop being bored. America’s own weapon will be used against herself if she does not repent. Read II Peter, Jude, and Revelation. You only have time for repentance. You have no life apart from God.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            I agree with your assertion that false history and false education is a real problem in the west, and that westerners ought to be happy and thankful for the positive parts of their history. That said, much wrong has been done to some First Nations people. Billy Graham said that, if they ever are able to forgive, a sleeping giant will awake and revival will break out.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Yes, amen. The situation is far more seious. The Western liberals are trying to enslave mankind by giving them the for-ever losers’ mentality by teaching everyone that only the white Christians did bad things in the past. Their non-sense is not funny anymore. They fueled hatred on Planet Earth everywhere by their abusively false education, endangering the whites and non-whites alike.

            Well-fed Sodomic baby-killing species slandering the slender intelligent hard-working pioneer astronauts. Imagine that. Today, the childless liberals try to establish pedophilia on earth by pushing homosexual depravity, and all sane humans must do something to stop the evil. It’s not just religious freedom at stake, but also the truth and morality’s rights to exist on earth. Don’t accept any of liberals’ opinions. They’ve been always wrong.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            There is currently a revival of sorts starting in Canada with First Nations people. There are plenty of godly First Nations people who are hard working, good Christians. I do agree with you about the danger of history being rewritten (for example, the liberal’s war on Thanksgiving and Christmas). Good talking to you as always, Grace.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Thank you. Very good! It’s a fact that the white Christians brought into the entire world the Holy Bible, universal literacy, charity, medicine, Christianity’s classic music and classic literature, human rights, freedom, equality, and lawfulness. They were not flawless but they deserve much gratitude from everyone on earth even including the earlier tribes in American continents.

            They have been actually fortunate to encounter the Protestant English and not others. Imagine what Nazi Germans, Soviet Russians, imperial Japanese, fascist Italians, or communist Chinese would do to them if they were the first contact. A real nightmere. The English were the least bad tribe on earth.

            I really dislike it when the Western whites bash their own Christian ancestors and forefathers because today is the worst era for mankind. I feel like saying, “Bash your own wicked generation instead of your superior normal Christian ancestors.” I feel more racism from the Westerners today because they link the people of colors with West’s mentally ill depraved. Liberals made everything worse for everyone.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Christianity isn’t a race or a color though. It was originally spread by Jewish believers who went into the world and turned it upside down. What a glorious day it will be in heaven when those from every nation will be praising Him!

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Amen. Yes, but Europe became a Christendom first. The Lord alone knows His own and the real thing. We are only talking about the visible phenomenon.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Guest, I really believe all Canadians should celebrate the British Christian founders (conservative white Christian males) of the nation and properly read the founding documents and all verses of the national anthem. It’s been grossly unfair, even a crime, against the white Christian creators of Canada for the last 3-4 decades. Canada has been a utopia on earth mainly because of the Christian English’s contributions. No other tribe was that wise or orderly or compotent. We all know that.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Canada was founded by Christians seeking religious freedom, much like the US was. It was also founded by the French and by Native Canadians who wanted to build a community. That’s why we have 2 official languages (French and English). Our national anthem was first written in French and, to some extent, it is a hymn.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Yes, exactly. The French men in Canada were not as well-controlled as the English men, were they? The French caused terrors in the 60’s or 70’s for more rights. In any case, both nations were created to spread the Christian religion which they actually accomplished much. We must not be bullied into bowing before Sodomy by the same nations. It’s crazy and disgraceful. Let us follow God and fulfill our founding fathers’ vision.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Our original French settlers were wonderful people who worked alongside the natives to build a nation for Christians to flee to. It’s a shame what Canada has become or is becoming, but it was a good nation at one time. It still may be. I pray for revival daily.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Yes, let us. Canada needs repentance. Did the French men father the Metis properly? I wondered if the French men married the native women or just ran away after having intimacy.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Some marriages were traditional while others were “marriage à la façon du pays” which means “marriage according to the custom of the country”. Mischif language (or Metis-French) has some wonderful Christian hymns and songs.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Good. If they were married and the women were not abandoned, I’d be happy, too. Yes, good Christian stuff.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Yes, I realized that secular Westerners are trying to erase off Christianity from the Western civilization’s history as they tried to erase off the Creator God in the natural science’s field. Both attempts are dishonest, malicious, and altogether disrespectful.

  • Ambulance Chaser

    Considering that the overwhelming scientific consensus is that 1) a person’s gender identity and sexual orientation are inborn and cannot be changed, and that 2) it’s harmful to try and do so, I don’t see anything wrong with this legislation.

    • Reason2012

      Feel free to cite proof of that “overwhelming scientific consensus”. Activists never do – they instead can only show a paper or two written by a few homosexual activists.

      • Ambulance Chaser

        I’ve done so, many times. If you absolutely need to see it again, start with this:

        Swaab, D., & Garcia-Falgueras, A. (2008). A sex difference in the hypothalamic uncincate nucleus: Relationship to gender identity. Brain, 131, 3132-3146.

        Zucker, K. (2006). Commentary on Langer and Martin’s (2004) “How dresses can make you mentally ill: Examining gender identity disorder in children.” Child and Adolescent Social Work Journal, 23, 533-555.

        • Reason2012

          I didn’t ask you to cite two papers written by homosexual activists. Again, cite the proof of “overwhelming scientific consensus”. You never do.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Do you have any actual criticisms of the papers or just ad hominems?

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Dude, do you have any “overwhelming scientific evidence” or are you just going to keep posting those 2 sorry puff pieces over and over again?

          • Ambulance Chaser

            I don’t believe I’ve ever posted those two pieces, but they’re far from “puff pieces,” they’re publications in scientific journals.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            a.) They are puff opinion pieces,

            b.) They have been discredited. It’s 2017. Try to keep up.

            c.) Publications in scientific journals get retracted all the time. Have a look at retractionwatchDOTcom.

        • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

          Those haven’t held up in the scientific community. 🙂 There is no scientific proof that any of this is genetic or a biological condition.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Things don’t become true just because you stomp your foot and say they are.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            No kidding, which is why you need to have some scientific data, which you’ve yet to produce.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            I’ve produced plenty. If you have some objection to the articles I posted, let’s hear it.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You posted 2 old puff pieces. Again.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Okay, so you have no response or rebuttal. Got it.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Dude, the onus is on you. You made a claim you could not prove. Own it.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            No, I made a claim, then cited sources to prove it. You refused to read those sources, insulted them, dismissed them, and then acted as if you had won something.

            If you don’t like my sources, feel free to read through them and tell me what the problem is. Otherwise, I will have to conclude that you have no argument.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            No you didn’t. You made a claim and then posted two disproven, old puff pieces.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            What do you mean “disproven?” When were they “disproven?” Where? By whom?

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            By other scientists. I gave you the retracted site already.

          • Bob Johnson

            The first article AC referenced has no information on either the article or either of the two authors. And did you read the article on Zucker at RetractionWatch, it is praise for how he handled a citation for a different paper that was retracted.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            That doesn’t negate the fact that both those puff opinion pieces contain no science and were discounted.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Yes, and I used it to find that neither of these articles are mentioned on it. Swaab’s name appears nowhere on the site at all. Zucker seems to have run into some trouble with some other study he wrote in some other journal, on some other topic.

            Now, are you going to tell me what the problem is with my articles or not?

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Yes. They were discounted. They are old. There has been new science since then.

          • Bob Johnson

            citation please.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            The Johns Hopkins study.

          • Bob Johnson

            Ahh, the popular piece written for the general public in The New Atlantis, a journal that prides itself in being not peer reviewed. Therefore, retraction will never need be an issue. Indeed a main focus of that paper is to present and knock down the very straw man presented here, “is gender identity fixed at birth.” Their article has also been panned for the glaring omission of recent work in the field. So as a popular article we will see how well it stands the test of time.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Okay, so let’s see some. Don’t keep sending me to do your research for you.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            See my other post.

        • Bob Johnson

          Bailey, et al. (2016). “Sexual Orientation, Controversy, and Science”
          An interesting paper to add to your list. I am only about halfway through reading it.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Meh, I’m sure it’s also “discredited junk science,” because reasons. Oh, I’m not going to tell you what they are, I’m just going to insult you every time you ask 🙂

          • Bob Johnson

            Finished it. It is a very good meta paper with literally hundreds of references covering the “junk” science. Next time someone asks for references I’d be tempered to cut and paste the whole Reference section.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Do it 🙂 But sadly, don’t expect anyone to do anything more than dismiss it without reading it.

  • Nidalap

    Hitler stated May 1, 1937: “The youth of today is ever the people of tomorrow. For this reason we have set before ourselves the task of inoculating our youth with the spirit of this community of the people at a very early age, at an age when human beings are still unperverted and therefore unspoiled. … This Reich stands, and it is building itself up for the future, upon its youth. And this new Reich will give its youth to no one, but will itself take youth and give to youth its own education and its own upbringing.”

    • Colin Rafferty

      Which is exactly why this law exists. To stop people from inoculating our youth with what the adults want them to be. This is about letting the children be who they are, and not allowing them to be in abusive situations.

      • Nidalap

        Uh-huh. Just more of the old “Your children belong to all of us!” mentality that would-be despots have used throughout history to try to mold the next generation to their own liking…

        • Colin Rafferty

          What is this, opposite day? How does stopping children from being indoctrinated by their abusers mean that we’re indoctrinating them?

          • Nidalap

            Opposite day indeed…
            ‘Oh yeah? Well, WE’RE not the abusers, YOU are! And, and WE’RE not indoctrinating them, YOU are!!!’

          • Colin Rafferty

            Ok, what about the law is indoctrinating children?

          • Nidalap

            Oh, other than threatening to yank children from any home where government-approved indoctrination isn’t carried out? Nothing much, I suppose…

          • Colin Rafferty

            That is not in the law at all. Children can be removed because of caregivers abusing them based on various characteristics, including race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation.

          • Nidalap

            Amusing that you’ll, on the one hand, claim that children aren’t capable of consent in sexual matters but, on the other hand, that they are perfectly capable of an ‘orientation’ concerning it…

          • Colin Rafferty

            Amusing that you can see the difference between having desires and capacity for making decisions based on those desires. Here’s a simple (straight) example:

            Your 13 year old daughter is straight, and has a strong desire to sleep with the 25 year old male truck driver who lives next door. You probably have no doubt that she actually has these desires, and is straight. But you are also sure that she is not mature enough to make the decision to act on those desires.

          • Nidalap

            Until someone passes a law that says it’s a special ‘orientation’ and she’ll be taken away if I don’t encourage her in it?

          • Colin Rafferty

            Actually the law protects her as well, because it doesn’t say “gay”, it says “sexual orientation”. She can be removed if you did abuse her because she was straight. Just as a Christian child will not be placed in a Jewish household unless they promise not to try to convert him.

          • Nidalap

            Stuff and nonsense. “Sexual orientation” means any perversity, else there would be no reason to list it in the first place…

          • Colin Rafferty

            The reason to list it is because it ought to be protected. Do you think that a straight child should be placed in a home that would try to convert them to be gay? This law stops that. Without “sexual orientation”, that child would not be directly protected.

            Of course, it also stops gay children from being abused as well. Too bad about that.

          • Amos Moses

            not sure who that was …. but he or she has evaporated ……

  • Reason2012

    The unsaved world continues to prove the Bible is God’s Word, as they continue to teach the exact opposite of what God has commanded us.

  • Reason2012

    Notice the lie of homosexual/transgender activists who use contradictory claims to push their agendas:

    Homosexuality: genetics trump feelings: If a person feels it that they really are not homosexual and want counseling, that’s too bad, because in spite of how you feel you can’t change genetic facts, like in this case the genetic fact you’re supposedly homosexual. Genetics trumps your feelings.

    Transgenderism: feelings trump genetics. If you feel it that you do not want to be a boy anymore, that’s fine – ignore genetic facts, like the genetic fact you’re male, and mutilate your body to get in line with the REAL truth: how you feel. Feelings suddenly trump genetics instead.

    Behold the lies of the perversion activists – one says genetics trump what you feel, the others say what you feel trump genetics. Call them out on how they show they’re lying to promote this anti-moral, anti-Christian agenda, treating as criminals anyone who does not pledge their undying support for it.

    Pass this information on to anyone that’s in a position to rebuke these lies and get this twisted perversion out of our schools and protect our children

    • TheKingOfRhye

      “Homosexuality: genetics trump feelings:”

      Now that’s a strawman argument, or at the very least, a generalization. If someone, of their own free will, “feels it that they really are not homosexual and want counseling”, I really don’t have much of a problem with that. I doubt the effectiveness of such things as “conversion therapy” that I’ve heard about, but if someone is an adult, and truly wants to change that, wants it of their own free will, and not due to any external pressure or desire to fit in, or something like that….good luck to them, I guess.

      “Transgenderism: feelings trump genetics.”

      What if being transgender is itself genetic?

      • Reason2012

        “feels it that they really are not homosexual and want counseling”, I really don’t have much of a problem with that. I doubt the effectiveness of such things as “conversion therapy” that I’ve heard about,

        And yet activists shut that down claiming being homosexual is genetic and your feelings do not matter. You even express “doubt” – but why “doubt” if they person says they FEEL that way?

        What if being transgender is itself genetic?

        You’re missing the point. IF it was genetic, then the way you know this supposed truth is by their “feelings”. Yet when it comes to homosexuality, they claim that a person who FEELS they do not want to be homosexual anymore is suddenly NOT an accurate way to know what the genetic truth is, as if the genetic truth suddenly has nothing to do with feelings.

        It just shows how it’s all deceptive propaganda, and they refute their own claims depending on which of the two they’re trying to push.

        • TheKingOfRhye

          The first scenario you were talking about earlier is a total misrepresentation of reality, at least the way you first put it. If someone, as you said, “feels they are not really homosexual”, what do they even need counseling for? What would be stopping them from not being homosexual, in that case? But I notice you put it differently here….”
          a person who FEELS they do not want to be homosexual anymore.” Now that’s more like it. There’s a big difference right there, “feels they are not” vs “do not want to be”. From everything I’ve ever heard about people in “conversion therapy”, it’s people who have homosexual feelings, and acknowledge that, but feel like they shouldn’t act on them, and/or want to get rid of them. I think people shouldn’t do that, but if they do truly want to, I wouldn’t be the one “shutting that down”.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            There has never been any scientific proof that homosexuality is genetic.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            So? I didn’t say that.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            There is absolutely no scientific proof that homosexuality is genetic. None.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Again, I wasn’t talking about it being genetic. And I don’t think it matters if it is or not.

          • Amos Moses

            “And I don’t think it matters if it is or not.”

            again …. accidentally stumbled into the truth and the christian position ….. it does not matter ……… it is all SIN …………… its source is not relevant …………..

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I assure you, my position is not that “it is all sin.” I’m trying to say that I don’t think it matters if sexual orientation is genetic or not, because
            it’s not something people choose. I’m still confused as to why “Guest” felt he had to state to me, twice, that there’s no proof that it is genetic, when I don’t make that claim, and I have never based any argument I have made on that.

          • Amos Moses

            “I’m trying to say that I don’t think it matters if sexual orientation is genetic or not, because ”

            and as i said …. we are in agreement …… accidentally stumbled into the truth and the christian position ….. it does not matter ……… it is all SIN …………… its source is not relevant …………..

            “because it’s not something people choose”

            it does not matter if they choose it or not …… they do ….. but even if they do not ….. it does not matter ……… it is irrelevant ………….

            “I’m still confused as to why “Guest” felt he had to state to me, twice, that there’s no proof that it is genetic, when I don’t make that claim”

            well ….. if it is not chosen ….. what is left ………….. and why is that not a claim ……… your claim ……….

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Let’s just say we agree on something, but for different reasons.

            “well ….. if it is not chosen ….. what is left”

            Things that happen during a person’s early development, perhaps.

            “and why is that not a claim ……… your claim ……….”

            What are you talking about? Why is WHAT not a claim? I didn’t say anything was “not a claim”, I said Guest was implying I was making a claim that I was not.

          • Amos Moses

            “What are you talking about? Why is WHAT not a claim?”

            you said …..

            “I’m still confused as to why “Guest” felt he had to state to me, twice, that there’s no proof that it is genetic, when I don’t make that claim, and I have never based any argument I have made on that.”

            so i asked ….

            well ….. if it is not chosen ….. what is left ………….. and why is that not a claim ……… your claim ……….

            “Things that happen during a person’s early development, perhaps.”

            ok …. so pedophilia …….. drugs ….. bitten by a radioactive spider ….. what ………… but as you said ….

            it does not matter if they choose it or not …… they do ….. but even if they do not ….. it does not matter ……… it is irrelevant …………. it is SIN ……….

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Okay, the claim you said I made is that sexual orientation is not chosen, is that it? Yes, I do claim that. I did not, however make the claim that it is genetic. Things can be not genetic, but still not a choice. To quote from wikipedia (yeah, I know it’s wikipedia, but the line has citations from 2 studies), “scientists hypothesize that a combination of genetic, hormonal, and social factors determine sexual orientation.” So, that’s “what is left.” Got it now?

  • Jason Todd

    And there are people defending this. Why am I not suprised?

    • Colin Rafferty

      Well yes, it’s a pretty obviously good thing. If you disagreed with anyone that is defending this, maybe you should actually point out where our arguments are incorrect.

      I’ll give you a head start:

      I assert that if a child is gay, it is a good idea to not place that child with a foster family that will abuse the child for his sexual orientation. That’s what the law is stopping.

      Or if a child is Chrisitan, that child will not be placed with an Fundamentalist Muslim family that will pressure him to convert.

      Now you have to explain why you think these are bad things. Go ahead.

  • Helena Handbasket

    Some very warped adults are putting their own crazy notions into kids’ heads. That’s child abuse.

    • Colin Rafferty

      Exactly! That’s why we need this law. To stop these adults from putting their crazy notions into kid’s heads.

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    What a Nazi atrocity by Sodomy. Something went wrong with the English this century. Canada needs Christianity to obtain sanity.

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    All humans are savages including the moderners. They massacre the unborns if
    not the neighboring tribes or new comers. The Church was not flawless,
    but only the Bible-following Christians conduct the civilized teaching
    among mankind. Every tribe has been barbaric one way or another and
    needed to get fixed by the Church.

    Every tribe contributed to mankind’s advancement, but not wholesomely. Barbarism is a heinous thing. Westerners from the former Christendom have no clue. Fight is
    inevitable among different tribes; power struggles exist where men
    exist. Western whites and their followers have forgotten the plain facts
    that men simply fight; they must acknowledge the superiority and the
    unequal contributions of the Christian whites of yesteryears.

    The first trbes in North America must acknowledge their barbarism and
    illiteracy’s woes and not just European men’s abuses, to be fair and
    realistic. People lose land and the fruits of their hand to foreigners
    everywhere on earth all the time, not just them. First tribes should
    learn the world history, not just North America and South America’s.

    I think God punished the pagans for the ongoing barbarism against women and children and weaker members of the tribes by bringing the Europeans in. Humans are savage evil everywhere. Wars are part of God’s wrath upon mankind. It’s in the Holy Bible.
    People reveal themselves over time. Humanist Westerners dream about
    humanity falsely because they always had the civilized Christianity with
    them.

    As long as the first tribes blame the white people, they
    cannot expect a better future. Admit the defeat and try to excel. It’s
    possible to master over the main population by excelling like the Jews
    do in many nations. One should wonder if the liberals are teaching the
    peoples of colors to make them maintain the loser’s mentality( Just
    white people did bad things, etc.) in order to keep them as losers
    always so that they could keep control of the population.

    They use alcohol to control, too, but ultimately it’s the given tribes’ unwillingness to
    work harder that is truly a problem. Christians and Jews don’t get tricked by
    the Western liberals. In any case, liberal whites’ education and
    entertainment has been bad to humanity. Mankind need Christian education
    to be proper and happy.