University Student Sues Over Failing Grade Allegedly Tied to Complaint About Lesbianism, Profanity in Reading List

Photo Credit: Royal Broil/Wikipedia

STEVENS POINT, Wisc. — A 59-year-old university student has sued her teacher at the University of Wisconsin-Stevens Point for giving her a failing grade, as she believes the F is tied to her complaint about the themes of homosexuality, sex and swearing found in class reading assignments.

Donna Kikkert said that when she enrolled in the advanced creative writing poetry course at the university in 2014, she wanted to study classic poets. However, she became disappointed when Professor Patricia Dyjak rather selected material that contained contained profanity and references to sex.

“For the reading material in this course, Ms. Dyjak chose five poetry textbooks … which focused on lesbians, illicit sexual relationships, incest and frequent swearing,” her lawsuit states.

“A rational person would surmise these textbook choices to be myopically degrading and insulting to the intelligence of university students, who would have greatly benefited from a balanced study of poets, including Frost, London, Dickinson, Poe and others,” it reads.

Kikkert also became uncomfortable when, during one class, the discussion turned to tattoos and Dyjak allegedly lifted her shirt to show students the tattoo on the back of her shoulder, which exposed her breasts to the class.

She states that she wrote to Dyjak to express concern about her poetry selections, and suggested that she consider adding “one or two” of the classics into the selected material.

Dyjak responded that members of the University of Wisconsin community need to have tolerance toward one another, and that when she chose the poems, she purposefully selected material “that would appeal to … my LGBT students.”

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“From Ms. Dyjak’s response, a rational person would surmise that she has swung the pendulum far to the side of LGBT students, and in so doing, has chosen to totally discount the importance and the validity of the mainstream student population,” Kikkert wrote in her legal challenge.

She outlined that her grades in other classes have been mostly A’s and a few B’s, resulting in a 3.8 average, and while she completed all assignments for the poetry class, Dyjak gave her an F. Kikkert believes that it is retaliation for reporting the professor to the chair of the university English Department.

Kikkert is asking that the court find that Dyjak acted in malice, and that she either be suspended a year without pay or terminated altogether. She is also seeking an adjustment of her grade from F to A.

Assistant Attorney General Katherine Spitz, who is representing Dyjak, has argued in court that the case should be dismissed because there is no legal standard requiring teachers to select certain material for their class.

“Kikkert’s complaint fails because it does not provide any legal authority or other basis (and the defendant’s counsel is aware of none) upon which this court could require Dyjak to teach the work of certain poets in a college course … or to provide any particular student with the grade that student believes she deserves, rather than the one she earned,” she wrote.

Kikkert, who is considering an appeal after an initial dismissal of the case, is studying for a Bachelor of Arts Degree at the University of University-Stevens Point.


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  • Grace Kim Kwon

    This is just a tip of an iceburg. Only God knows what the liberals are really doing against the Christian population nation-wide. American Christians must never submit to atheists or Sodomites but fight to the end for the sake of God’s holy name and innocent humans, or mankind will lose dignity and fairness and freedom. The Puritans lost their beloved homeland but their suffering and toiling was not vain. Thank God for His victory and the impending Judgment Day.

    • Worf

      “Atheists barred Christians from getting education and positions in the communist nations.”

      Did you know that christians did the same thing to jews in the US until well after WWII?

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        The Jews flourished in the Western Christendom( including USA) the most. Elsewhere, they’ve been just silenced. USA protected the Jews better than any other tribes, and that’s why the nation was blessed. USA also helped Israel stay independent. Jews should be forever grateful to Christian Americans.

        • Worf

          You totally ignored my statement:

          American christians discriminated rampantly against jews until the mid 1960s. Conservative universities refused jews higher education, and business refused jobs.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Everyone was discriminated against by someone else including the white European males. Stop whining. You only need to work hard and excel in everything in order to subdue the main population like the Jews are doing.

          • Worf

            Stop whining? I literally made a direct counterpoint to your own statement, so you are, by your own call, whining.

            You are ignorant and delusional. You have no idea how the jewish people achieved their success. Nor do you understand jewish secularism and their distrust of the right wing and christians.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Christian Americans never forced the Jews to read porn and give Fs for refusals. Yes, the Jews are in crucial positions in American society. The Jews succeeded because American Christians have been altogether nicest to them. Secular Jews paid Americans good with evil, but they will repent and believe in their Messiah Jesus later. You should repent of your sin, too.

          • Worf

            I think you need to study more into the long term historical relationship between the christians and jews.

            There is a reason many of the jewish people do not trust christian conservatives.

            Throughout history, only christians have matched muslims in their rabid antisemitism. Until the 60s (and even long after that), it was considered normal for christians to distrust and discriminate against jewish people.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Christians treated the Jews the best. The Jews got all the excellent lifestyles solely in the Christendom. Elsewhere, it was from-primitive-to-primitive. They should be thankful to the American Christians. American Christians made a world where one can be successful only by working hard. Unprecedented fair society on Planet Earth. Educated Jews know that.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            Ummmm…nobody forces anyone to read porn…

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            Ummmm… professors are in authority over students and can use that authority incorrectly, as in this case.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            That’s a matter of opinion.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            No, objectively, America is wrong to push immorality upon mankind. People have rights to morality.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            But whether what you’re talking about is actually immorality is a matter of opinion.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            The Holy Bible decreed human morality, and it matches human clear conscience and science. Western pervs should not decide anything for mankind. You guys were normal only when you were Christian.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            Why do you keep saying “you guys”? Who are you attacking here, and why? I’m not attacking anyone, I’m just trying to understand you which is very hard. I do know it is possible to not be Christian and still be a moral human being.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            “You guys” means “you unbelieving Western men.” Non-christians are not moral, unless they thoroughly mimic Christians. They are either barbaric( Pre-christian) or warped (Post-christian) on their own, and they always produce massive number of innocent victims. There hasn’t been any exception.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            I don’t know what to say to you other than I disagree. Completely. I know people of all faiths and people of no faith and they are not the monsters you describe.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Everyone is a sinner. Christianity alone provides the wholesome, civilized morality, not just salvation.

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            Nonsense. Colleges have guidelines for good reason.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            I meant that yours is an opinion, I wasn’t talking about the teacher.

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            Facts are not opinion.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            Present some then.

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            See my posts.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            This news. Secularism is an addiction to porns. The Jews were fortunate to be ordered around by the Christian Americans. Mankind is not that fortunate this century. How stupid it is to be ordered around by the Sodomic Americans after all the battles for the God-given human dignity and freedom! You Americans should abolish the stupid comedies right away. They are not even funny.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            I’m sorry but I didn’t understand very much of that. Secularism is an addiction to porn? What are Sodomic Americans?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Americans who support Sodomy. They are modern Sodomites.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            What do you mean by “support” sodomy? I don’t support it and I don’t fight against it either. I mostly don’t care about it. Those who practice it don’t usually announce it to others.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Then you are one of them. Western whites confuse the skin colors and sexual depravity and conduct racism and immorality’s tyranny this century.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            Why do you assume I am Western, white, racist, and sexually depraved? You don’t know me. And even if I’m not Christian I am STILL not necessarily Western, white, racist or sexually depraved. You are making a lot of assumptions.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Your photo. And the daily news.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            My photo is a picture of Lawrence Welk, the old bandleader, which my user name is a joke based upon.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            OK. You talk like immoral secular man. That’s why. Westerners are racist this century because they put the peoples of colors and the sexually depraved together and rant equality. Homosexuals should be listed with incests and pedophiles and not with the peoples of darker skin.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            It’s probably best that I not talk to you further. We have completely different ideas and understandings and I don’t like bullies or people who judge me without knowing me.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You look and sound like a secular Westernized man. A young one, probably. Respect your parents, okay?

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    America has no honesty or the sense of fairness apart from Christianity. Christians alone try to benefit everyone unconditionally and with fairness.

    • Good Grief

      Christianity is nothing but a choice… thank all the gods of Greece and Rome more and more people are refusing to follow it.

      • Clyde Crow Jr.

        AMERICA was built upon Christianity and it should not be change don’t like leave the country,we shouldn’t have to change our values,because of a select few who want to sin in the eyes of the LORD

        • Good Grief

          It’s a simple choice, like all religions.

          It was never ruled by the Bible, but it has changed for the better. Simple fat: it isn’t what you want it to be.

          • Amos Moses

            nope ….. God/Christ chooses whom He will choose …. it has nothing to do with our choice ……….. we would never choose Him otherwise …….

          • Good Grief

            So says the myth.

          • Amos Moses

            is that a scientific or theological statement ………… and what evidence do you offer ………

          • Good Grief

            None needed. It fits the definition and you offer no evidence to back your blind faith.

            Do you need the word defined for you?

          • Amos Moses

            truth is either accepted or rejected …. you reject it ….. so what ………. truth is a measure of any evidence ….. you have none …… science or otherwise …… truth is independent of science or any other methodology ………..

          • Good Grief

            You have faith, not truth. Truth doesn’t have to be looked for or wanted.

            Fire burns. That is truth.

            Find truth in my man-written book if you want it is faith, not truth.

            It fits the definition of mythology, though.

          • Amos Moses

            “You have faith, not truth.”

            nope ….. i have faith BECAUSE of truth ……… you have it bassackwards ………….

          • Good Grief

            No truth you can prove. Just mindless blind faith.

          • Amos Moses

            truth is either accepted or rejected …… and the blind faith is all yours …..

          • Good Grief

            Nope. Fire burns. Tat is verifiably true.

          • Amos Moses

            sure …… but truth comes before verification ….. and i do not need the fire to know that …….

          • Good Grief

            You cannot verify, you only have faith.

            And you cannot verify.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Western atheists only attack Christianity. Western atheists’ evil is the mega-proof that Christianity alone is true and right in the entire universe.

          • Good Grief

            Okee dokee!

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Read the Holy Bible and become human again.

          • Good Grief

            I have, along with a bunch of other myths.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            No, you have not. Not-remembering is same as not-having-read-at-all.

          • Good Grief

            Okee ember!
            I never said I didn’t remember, little liar.

            I just don’t care about in the least. It’s all mythology.

          • Good Grief

            Your holy book is not physically verifible.

          • Amos Moses

            everything in it is verifiable ………. but you reject the evidence ….. you are in fact blind to the evidence by your own unrighteousness …………..

          • Good Grief

            You have no evidence to reject.

            Fire burns. One cannot deny that. That is truth.

            Truth needn’t be wanted.

        • Grace Kim Kwon

          Yes, Judeo-Christian ideals alone create the most superb nations.

        • Chris

          Except it wasn’t built on Christianity. The vast majority of early settlers never set foot inside a church.

      • Dan Taylor

        YOU – are an idiot!!!

        • Good Grief

          Why? It’s just a choice.

          I’m happy it’s on the way out.

      • Amos Moses

        “Christianity is nothing but a choice”

        yep … and it is ALL GODS choice …… not ours ……….

        • Good Grief

          Nope. One can choose to be christian and get all the special rights granted to the choice to follow religion.

          • Amos Moses

            nope ….. decisional christianity is a false christianity ….. FAIL ….. nothing in scripture to support it ………..

          • Good Grief

            Okee dole!

            No true Scotsman doesn’t remove the associated special rights.

          • Amos Moses

            noope ….. no true scriptures for it ………. FAIL ………….

          • Good Grief

            Okee dokee!

            Magic books… so funny…

          • Amos Moses

            again …. no evidence of such a thing ….. where is your evidence for that positive assertion …..

          • Good Grief

            You make it for me with your claims of blind faith.

          • Amos Moses

            you are the one asserting a blind faith when you say it is either myth or magic ………. mostly because you present no evidence ……….

          • Good Grief

            You are the one asserting truth that cannot be proven.

            Blind faith in the unprovable.

          • Amos Moses

            noope …. i am saying truth is independent of any verification …….. it is either accepted or rejected …… you reject it it seems …… truth is the measure of all claims ….. it is not a claim ……. and again ……. you are the one with blind faith ………..

          • Good Grief

            Ha ha ha… okee dokee!

            Your faith cannot be verified.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Western Sodom is the mega-proof that the Ex-christian condition is a mental illness.

          • Good Grief

            You’re funny.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You should respect your parents. Read Exodus 20. The West is nothing apart from Christianity. You only have useless ancient Greek porn stories as your original. The ancient Greeks even acknowledged the truthfulness and the incomparable superiority of Christianity and got converted. You guys are too well-fed and bored and disrespectful and that’s why you attack Christianity.

          • Good Grief

            Very funny. My parents agreed with me.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            That’s because you are a teenager.

          • Good Grief

            Older tha you, little liar.

          • Colin Rafferty

            The ancient greeks did no such thing. The people who created the “ancient Greek porn stories” were long dead before JC was born. I’ve heard of deathbed conversions, but never post-mortem ones.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Learn why Greece became a Christendom. Europe converted to Christianity because Christianity is superior. Americans are regressing today because of Sodomy and the transgender mental illness. I feel sorry for your normal forefathers. What descendants to have. Stop being bored. Enough of too much food.

          • Colin Rafferty

            I am neither bored, nor have too much food.

            As for my forefathers, all the one who are alive are very happy with the choices I have made in my life.

          • Worf

            Christianity was spread through Europe by violently forced conversion. During the Saxon wars, starting in 772 Charlemagne invaded the Saxons and threatened them with death if they didn’t convert to christianity.

            “If any one of the race of the Saxons hereafter concealed among them shall have wished to hide himself unbaptized, and shall have scorned to come to baptism and shall have wished to remain a pagan, let him be punished by death.”
            – Charlemagne on the religious nature of the Saxon Wars

            Never learn world history in a church. They are not objective. They will lie to you and leave out the unflattering details to protect their image and paint their past in a better (but false) light.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are wrong. People became Christian willingly and got martyred for the conversion because Christianity is true and good. Today’s Westerners hate Christianity because they are immoral. Immoral people hate Christianity.

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        Those are immoral idols. You need to repent of your sin to get saved. Read John 3. The West became immoral by rejecting the Christianity.

        • Good Grief

          Those are no different than your god.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are wrong. The God of the Holy Bible is holy and almighty. The Western civilization was superior only because it knew the one true glorious God. Your civilization is turning into a mentally ill junk because it rejected the one true God this century. Western whites used to be respected the most, before you were born, when they were still openly racist because racists are better than mentally ill pervs. Wake up and repent. Stop being addicted to drugs.

          • Parodyx

            Stop being addicted to DRUGS?

            WHAT?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            English kids are getting drugs because they don’t trust in God. It’s tragic altogether.

          • Parodyx

            What is it with you Christians and the rather odd conclusions you draw? Homosexuals don’t form couples to rebel against God. People don’t decide to take drugs to rebel against God. A woman doesn’t decide to get an abortion to rebel against God.

            In all these things, and many many more, I think God is quite far down the “actual reasons” list.

          • Colin Rafferty

            I’m only on this site to rebel against God.

            Just kidding.

          • Parodyx

            You’re gonna burn in hell so hard.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Every sin is a rebellion against the Creator God. You are a creature and you mst repent of sins because the offense has been done against the Creator God and not just against the fellow creatures.

          • Parodyx

            The problem with you Grace is that you make everything out to be about God, sin, rebellion, judging, etc. when you are about the only person who thinks in those terms. I meet someone, I like them, I eventually fall in love – nothing I have done in those examples has anything to do with God.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You must seek the truth and not mock. Christians are the only ones who love you, pray for you, and truly care for you. God’s truth alone is life-saving vital to you. You are not a confused pagan I don’t need instroductions. You do know Jesus is the Truth and still reject Him. Return to Him in repentance. Cherish your soul. Seek what is true and good instead of mocking God’s people. Read the Word of God.

          • Parodyx

            Most of what you say is quite mockable. It certainly bears no resemblance to any Christianity I have ever seen. The Christians I know preach love and respect and kindness and tolerance. All you do is scream hate and anger about western sodomites and so forth. I cannot imagine anyone believing as you do. It sounds more like fear and coercion you are going for and not a loving faith.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            I’m very nice to misled pagans, but you guys are spoiled rotten kids of a Christendom. You guys need to be scolded. Christians have been too nice to you and it’s a mistake. Now mankind faces bullying from the former Christian species for not-accepting Sodomy! Unacceptable. I don’t want to be persecuted by the Western whites or their mental servants for refusing Sodomy in the land. Get scolded and wake up. Telling the truth is the form of true love.

          • Parodyx

            I don’t need lessons from you about Christianity. If I want to learn about it, I’ll talk to someone who isn’t obsessed with western sodomites and pagan westerners and everything else you say that makes absolutely no sense. Seriously Grace, sell it to someone else. I’m not buying.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Canada’s United Church is no Christian. You need Biblical Christians and Biblical churches who tell you the whole truth. Read this news. It’s about Western Sodomites oppressing the moral people. Face the reality and don’t deny it.

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    American Dream is over as the liberals trap the nation’s Christians everywhere. Unconditional fairness has been the exclusive gift of Judeo-Christian values. Pagans and secularists have no virtue of fairness.

  • Sisyphus

    The student would, most likely, have seen a syllabus on the first day of class and could have gone directly to the Registrar’s office and dropped the class. Suing a University for not violating a professor’s academic freedom makes absolutely no sense.

    • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

      Why? You don’t always know what’s in a textbook until you start studying the course.

      • Sisyphus

        A poetry course probably doesn’t use a “textbook”, but reading a table of contents takes less than 5 minutes. The course could have been dropped after the first day. Most Universities still give tuition refunds several weeks into the semester.

        • Ambulance Chaser

          It’s extremely flimsy. I read the complaint; she doesn’t even mention a cause of action that the college is supposed to be liable under!

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            If true, perhaps she doesn’t have a good lawyer. She does have a good case though.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Oh yeah? For what?

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            Discrimination.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            What kind of discrimination? Under what theory? What code? What statute?

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            You’re not much of a lawyer if you don’t know.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            It’s not my job to do your work for you.

            You say she has a good case for discrimination. Now support it.

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            You don’t know about religious discrimination? Again, not much of a lawyer.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            I didn’t say that. I actually know the subject quite extensively. But I’m not going to do your job for you.

            Now are you going to answer the question or not?

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            Already did. The student was treated with prejudice because the professor was angry she complained.

          • RWH

            She apparently tried to use that excuse within the various levels of the University appeals process, and she lost. They would have had all of the documentation, and she didn’t prove her case. All we can do is to speculate, but if she lost every round of appeals and also lost in court, I believe that we’re pretty accurate in our assessment of what is really going on.

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            You didn’t read the court documents.

          • RWH

            I read the court documents. She lost because she doesn’t have a legal theory to show that someone did something wrong.

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            For someone who read court documents, you know very little about the case.

          • RWH

            She lost because she doesn’t have a legal theory that she can use. She exhausted the entire appeals process at the University. What is not to understand? She wants the court to change her grade from an F to an A. She wants the teacher fired. She wants free representation. She’s not getting any of these. The University apparently proved that it has a process, and the process was followed. End of story. She lost! She needs to move on, and you need to get over this.

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            She lost because the case wasn’t presented well. She’ll win on an appeal if she gets better legal counsel.

          • RWH

            I doubt it. A good lawyer will tell her that she has no case.

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            You are not a lawyer. You have prejudice because you are gay and you are a prof.

          • RWH

            She has no case. The court documents say so loud and clear. On what legal theory is she going to use? If you’re going to throw that “you’re prejudiced” canard around, you had better have some substance to prove it.

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            She needs a better lawyer.

          • RWH

            A “better” lawyer will tell her that she has no case. She’s free to spend her money on lawyers, but all they will do is to take her money and then go on to lose the case. Since lawyers get paid only if they win the case, an honest one will not take the case. She has already been to court once. All she can do is to appeal that case to a higher court.

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            She’ll win the appeal.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Well if that’s your argument, then she DOESN’T have a case, because “prejudice” is not a cause of action.

            If you mean it’s a 14th Amendment violation, well, no, because “people who complain” are not given much deference as compared to “people who don’t complain” and there’s no law requiring professors to give anybody the same grade as anybody else.

            If you mean it’s retaliation, there’s no law I’m aware of providing for a retaliation lawsuit by students against professors.

            So unless you have something more specific than “prejudice” you haven’t established a cause of action.

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            Pull the other finger.

        • Colin Rafferty

          Actually, the complaint mentions five textbooks and the authors. She absolutely knew the poetry from day one (or even day minus one if she went planned a little).

          I almost feel like the complainant is a poe.

        • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

          Of course poetry classes use textbooks. When part of academia, a collection of verse IS deemed a textbook.

          The student probably didn’t know who these authors were or what the content of their work was. The student also probably hoped the class would improve and that there would be some redeemable work involved. There wasn’t. The student has every right to sue.

          • Worf

            From the article:

            “Assistant Attorney General Katherine Spitz, who is representing Dyjak, has argued in court that the case should be dismissed because there is no legal standard requiring teachers to select certain material for their class.

            “Kikkert’s complaint fails because it does not provide any legal authority or other basis (and the defendant’s counsel is aware of none) upon which this court could require Dyjak to teach the work of certain poets in a college course … or to provide any particular student with the grade that student believes she deserves, rather than the one she earned,” she wrote.”

            She might have the right to sue, as do we all, but she has no legal grounds to sue on.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            That doesn’t address the fact that the student was failed for her religion.

          • Worf

            She was not failed for her religion. She was failed for not doing the work that was required to pass the class. Her personal religious beliefs do not allow her to demand a good grade after failing the class.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            The course did not match its description. The prof intentionally steered the course towards her pet propaganda. I see this happen all the time. It needs to be stopped.

          • Worf

            Would you feel the same if the professor had “steered the course” toward agendas that matched your own?

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            My only “agenda” at university was to learn.

          • Worf

            Then find a school that matches your ideals. Everybody has opinions. You are no more right than anybody else. The school is not required to make accommodations for an individual’s personal dogmas.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You’re missing the point. A school shouldn’t have an “ideal” other than to teach students. Facts are agenda-free.

          • Worf

            You are missing the point. A professor is allowed to have their own opinions, and they are allowed to push them (within rules and laws). College is not agenda free, and many lean liberal. Do you honestly think conservative colleges/professors don’t push agendas?

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Opinions and propaganda are two different things. Opinions are not supposed to be pushed over facts.

          • Worf

            There is no legal basis for preventing a professor from pushing their opinions so long as they don’t violate any laws. Even if you call it propaganda.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Dude, propaganda and opinion are 2 different things. A poetry class that only pushes a lesbian agenda is not an opinion, it’s propaganda.

          • RWH

            This apparently was a writing class. The student would have been graded on poetry that she wrote and submitted. Apparently, she would rather argue against the assignments than produce quality work. If the student turned in assignments that she wanted to write other than follow the instructions and write the poems according to the parameters of the assignment, she deserved to fail. Professors often give a lot of latitude in a student’s selection of topics to write about. That she failed indicates that there was/is something going on that she’s not sharing with us. That she wants the professor fired shows how vindictive she is.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            She was discriminated against for her religion. Would discrimination be okay with you if the student was discriminated against for sexual orientation or ethnicity, or is it only okay if it happens to Christians?

          • RWH

            That’s what she would like us to believe. However, the people who were parties to the appeals process at the University saw through this as the justification of hack work on the basis of religion. Most universities have an intricate appeals process where she could have appealed her case at higher levels. My guess is that this lady needs to grow up. She wasn’t at all persuasive, and the court saw through this as well. That she wants an F turned into an A, the teacher fired, and a free court-appointed lawyer says it all. To me, she’s an overgrown brat.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Dude, that’s your opinion. You weren’t there. It’s clear that the course had little to do with poetry, much to do with a pro-homosexual agenda, and that a student who was a Christian was failed for her religion.

          • RWH

            Out of the five authors mentioned, only two are gay. The one talked about the loss he felt when his partner died of AIDS. The other talked about growing up in a home with parents who acted just like you. They were repulsive, judgmental people who rejected their daughter. The other three authors are straight. All won a number of prestigious awards and are recognized as outstanding poets. That is, everyone but people like the parents of the “lesbian.”

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            The authors needn’t be gay in order for the professor to have pushed a lesbian agenda. None of those poets are stellar. The students did not learn poetry form , they did not learn about famous poets, they did not learn about the history of poetry. Instead they had propaganda shoved down their throats.

          • RWH

            Did you bother to look up any of the poets and the various prizes and awards they received for their work. All have been recognized for their craft. That is, most people except people like you who claim that they know stuff but all they know is stale formulas.

            If you’re going to make assertions about the propagandistic elements within the course, provide us with evidence. Just saying something doesn’t make it true. Apparently, you cannot come up with any documentation such as her course syllabus compared with the official one on record. You cannot come across with any concrete ideas of which poems the class read. You have no idea as to what assignments and how the lady failed to meet the goals of those assignments. In short, you go to court, and you will get your clock cleaned. But apparently, that will not stop you from making unwarranted and misleading generalizations. And why is it that there is no record of anyone else dissatisfied with the course? If it were so bad as you say, where are the others.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            The student is an all A and B student in every course but this one. She was punished by the prof for being a Christian. This prof has no idea what poetry is nor how to teach it.

          • RWH

            Your arguments are getting more and more desperate. You can’t compare an advanced poetry-writing class with freshman math or world history. What evidence do you have that she didn’t select a bunch of puff courses in the past, and now she got into one that actually made her think?

            She went through the appeals process. Two legitimate areas of complaint are that the professor miscalculated the grade or the professor treated an individual differently than everyone else. In other words, the professor was biased against the students. The student apparently exhausted the appeals process, which would have been multi-layered, and the student failed to make her case. The court document states that she wanted an F changed to an A. That is not going to happen. The student wanted the teacher suspended without pay or fired. In other words, she was out for blood. The student doesn’t want to hire a lawyer for a civil case but would rather have someone else foot the bill. Courts provide lawyers for criminal cases where an individual is charged with a crime and can’t afford legal help. She’s out to get a teacher and to hurt her bad, and she wants to do it for free. It’s her case, but we’re supposed to pay for it.

            She can appeal all she wants. The courts aren’t going to take a case because she was unhappy with a previous decision. She has to have solid grounds, and her claim of bias was rejected. It was rejected by those people who knew the field, knew what was taught in the course, and had access to her work. That’s a lot more facts than you or I have.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            News sites are closing down comments because the majority of posters (including non-Christians) support the student.

            This isn’t the first case like this. It won’t be the last. Students are rising up and standing up against indoctrination. In the US, it doesn’t take much to be a prof, and it is not as respected a position as it is in the UK and Canada. There it takes real credentials.

            This prof should be fired and replaced by an actual academic. Let’s hope it happens soon.

          • RWH

            You must be reading a lot of biased news sites. That is not what I have seen. Again, all I am seeing is hot air and a hurricane of unsupported generalizations. And exactly where is this mob of students that are rising up against indoctrination? All I see are news sites with whiny people who are wringing their hands and are claiming that the sky is falling in.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You must not know how to use a search engine.

          • RWH

            I read through plenty of stuff. This story has been picked up by a number of Christian sites. I’m interested in unbiased ones. The Christian sites tend to have lots of comments from hateful people who want to see the teacher fired without just cause. These are the types who think that kangaroo courts are legitimate. If you didn’t see what I saw, it is apparent that you were very selective in what you saw and weren’t interested in sites that weren’t “Christian.”

            Again, you have a losing case, and your answers are getting more and more desperate.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            It’s all over LGBQT sites, as well as the general MSM.

            This professor is unqualified and will eventually be exposed. She is not well liked, nor is she a good professor.

          • RWH

            Well, guess what. It’s been two years since the student had the class, and the professor is still there. If she were so unqualified, she would have never made it through the tenure process. Schools routinely wash people out who can’t make the grade.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Lots of unqualified profs are still employed in the US. The system is a joke.

          • RWH

            Again, lots of wind but no substance. If you’re going to make an assertion, provide the proof to back that assertion. Anyone can say anything if they don’t need to back their biases with concrete facts.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You probably can’t pass a first year Canadian course in whatever filed you’re in, despite having a doctorate.

          • RWH

            Yet another pathetic argument that clearly violates the rules of this forum.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            It’s a fact that most Americans, including Ph.D. students, cannot pass first year Canadian university courses. That’s why a Canadian can get just about any job in the US that he/she wants – Canadian standards are higher and US employers know that.

          • RWH

            Considering that you have a rough time distinguishing between fact and opinion, I’m going to file this comment in the garbage where it belongs. First of all, why would someone with an earned doctorate be taking freshmen-level courses? Secondly, you’re giving me unsupported generalizations. If they were the least bit true, there would be articles published on this.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            The irony in your post is rich! 🙂 In order to qualify for certain degrees in certain countries, one must fulfil certain requirements. For example, American students, even at a doctorate level, cannot pass most Canadian introductory level math courses, or grammar courses, or science courses.

          • RWH

            Unless you have a copy of the teacher’s syllabus and a copy of the official course syllabus that would be located in the Registrar’s Office, you have no proof for your accusation.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Read the article.

          • RWH

            The article does not supply a copy of the teacher’s syllabus, nor does it include the official copy on file in the Registrar’s Office. All we have is her word, and it doesn’t sound very reliable to me. Inasmuch as she went through the appeals process at the University, a process that has many steps, I’m not too far off in my assessment that this lady has no case other than she didn’t like the course content and the assignments and would rather argue than do the work.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            The course’s title does not suggest it’s a lesbian lit course.

          • RWH

            I’m not interested in your biased opinions. I’m interested in facts. Show me her course syllabus and then show me the official syllabus that should be on file with the Registrar. Each of the regional accrediting agencies require that syllabi contain course objectives and outcomes. If those in her syllabus match the official ones on file, she is teaching the course as intended. Academic freedom stipulates that she has the right to choose the course materials and to teach the class as she sees fit as long as the course outcomes are met. If you bothered to look up each of the poets she mentioned in her suit, only two are gay–one male and one female. Both talk about loss. The remainder are hetrosexually married. They also talk about things that are personally agonizing. The one who has filed the lawsuit apparently thinks like you. You follow the rules and go by the numbers and voila, you have a poem. Her trouble is that the course instructor didn’t want Hallmark greeting cards. Courts don’t get involved with lawsuits like this one, especially when the University can prove that it has a multi-leveled grievance policy for students and that the policy was followed. A typical university will have a departmental grade appeal committee plus a university-wide one. That she took a year to file her suit means that she exhausted all of the appeals within the University. However, this lady is vengeful. She wants the court to change her grade from an F to an A, the teacher fired, and we, the taxpayers to supply her with a free lawyer. Her bad is that she hasn’t proved her case. Do a google search, and there are other articles about this. Nobody except for people on lists like this one see this as having anything to do with religion. They see her as a spoiled child who wants her way. If her aim were to make Evangelical Christians look whiny spoiled brats when they don’t get their way, she was a smashing success.

            On the downside, this lady has proved herself to be poisonous. She may graduate from that university, but nobody is going to want to hire a toxic person like her. If this lady does anything that will cause harm to the professor, such as taking things like this public, the school will have an easy time processing her expulsion. Professors have been known to receive death threats because of articles like this one.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You haven’t given any facts. All you’ve done is shown that you know little (if anything) about poetry, and that you are merely defending the prof because you’re happy that a Christian faced further persecution from another hapless prof.

          • RWH

            I have given you plenty of facts. I explained how the grievance process works in universities, and I told you the rules for building course syllabi. Unfortunately, you’re blinded because you have this idea that anyone who wants to expand you mind equals persecution. The lady is a crybaby, period, and you are no better.

            She went through the process and she lost. The court threw her case out because she had no case. The court would have looked at the documents that the University provided–which would have stipulated all the steps that she went through and their decisions and reasons behind those decisions. She lost, and all she can do now is to bloody the reputation of the professor. And to people who would rather run their lives through their emotions rather than solid facts will believe her. There are other sources where you can read about this plus the decision of the court. Apparently, everyone else can see through what is going on except for those Christians who wallow in their own persecution complexes.

            She’s a vindictive woman, and she’s out to make a name for herself. I certainly would not hire her if I owned a local business. This lady is trouble.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Those aren’t facts. Those are your opinions. You didn’t even know which lawyer was representing whom. 🙂 You didn’t know how poetry is written, nor did you know various types of poetry. You also had to “look up” who these poets are, that’s how “famous” they are and how “knowledgeable” you are about poetry. 🙂

          • RWH

            It’s a lot more than you have done. You seem to believe that you can judge a person’s work without even bothering to find out who they are and what they have written.

            If you’re so smart and so qualified, how is it that you don’t see the need to do some research of your own and to look up the facts? At least I bothered to look up their work and their reputation and to see what others have to say about them.

            All of this points to the fact that you are a hack who probably writes stuff that is amateurish. There are a lot of folks out there who know how to talk the talk but who can’t walk the walk. And I know where you fit.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            There you go making assumptions again and wildly hurling insults because you don’t have facts on your side.

            This “professor” is not well published herself. Her CV, which his supposed to name her most impressive credentials, lists a paltry few publications in embarrassingly bad “journals”. The class was titled “Advanced Creative Writing Poetry”, not “Lesbian and Incest Poetry”. There are no tests or quizzes, so how are the students graded? The professor often cancels class allegedly. She wears tank tops to class allegedly. She talks about her sex life allegedly. I mean, come on, is this a poetry class or a self-aggrandizement hour for a failed poet who can’t do so teaches?

            The student was failed for asking for more variety in subject matter. You think that’s cause for a failing grade? She did the work. She showed up to class. For those reasons alone she should not have gotten a failing grade, even if her work was sub-standard. She should have, at the least, minimally passed. This is an A and B student. There’s no way she suddenly did F work in this snowflake’s class.

            I hope this student appeals.

          • RWH

            The student went through the entire appeals process at the university. That is why she waited a year to file a court case. The case was dismissed. She has reached the end of the line, and she failed to make a case. All she has are accusations with no clear substance. By the way, you don’t get a passing grade for merely “doing the work.” The work must have been pretty crappy, or the student decided to write alternative assignments. The student apparently tried to reinvent the course on her own terms, and she shot herself in the foot.

            She was an A or B student? So what. I know plenty of students who excel in one area and then fall flat in another. Just because someone gets an A in World History, it doesn’t mean that she’ll get an A in Organic Chemistry. Even someone like you should know that.

            How many times must I explain to you that only two of the poets are gay. There was only one “lesbian.” If there were no tests or quizzes, she apparently was not held responsible for the content of the class readings. She was held accountable for a portfolio that she was to produce. She complains that the teacher would give a check, a check plus, and a check minus. In other words, the teacher was grading works in progress. It’s interesting that this lady never reported her grades. Apparently, she received check minuses, and rather than try to improve her work, she dug her heals in. I have had students who felt a sense of entitlement because they’re “smart,” and I’m supposed to factor that in rather than the quality of their work. They rarely succeed, and very often they make themselves disliked by the rest of the class.

            And why is it that she has no apparent support from any other class members? None of her documents are offering testimony from other members of the class.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            The professor admitted, in court, that she taught an LGBQT agenda, which did not match the course description.

            She failed a student who showed up to every class and who did every assignment. There are not tests or quizzes to mark, so what did she base her grade on?

            The professor is derelict and should be replaced, and that has nothing to do with her LGBQT agenda.

          • RWH

            You cannot prove that the “agenda” didn’t match the course description. There are various checks and balances within a university, and there are some very strict parameters. The student was graded solely on a portfolio, and the portfolio was to include poetry. That alone says that the content of the course fit the description. The teacher had the right to pick whatever theme that she wanted, but it is apparent that other things were included and was not solely about an LGBQT agenda. Again, if you bothered to explore the various authors, you would see that three were straight and married. Therefore, only part of the course had something to do with those “evil gays.” Apparently, you have no sympathy for someone whose partner died of AIDS.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Of course we can. The professor’s course description was a general one. If she wanted to teach an LGBQT course, she could have asked for one. She misrepresented the course to spread her indoctrination.

          • RWH

            How many times do I have to tell you that only two of the authors are gay. The rest are straight and would have dealt with other themes regarding loss. Your arguments are getting more and more pathetic.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You don’t have to “tell” me anything since you are the one unfamiliar with the case. 🙂 The professor admitted she taught the class with an LGBQT theme.

          • RWH

            She included themes that would be of interest to her LGBQT students, but she incorporated straight writers. The entire course wasn’t about the gays. The grade for the course was based on the portfolio that the students were to put together. It wasn’t based on the students’ assessment of the readings. She apparently didn’t meet the requirements. Years ago, someone I know ran into the same problem in graduate school. She wanted to write her dissertation defending a discredited theory. The committee told her that this was a no-go. She went ahead and wrote the thing, and the committee wouldn’t pass her. She hunted around for lawyers, and each told her that she didn’t have a case. She finally found one, and after he charged her a ton of money, he took the case to court and lost. She was out both the money and the degree.

            She lost her case. She doesn’t have a legitimate legal theory that she can use in court. Courts don’t take cases just because someone is dissatisfied with the outcome. You have to produce solid evidence that will stand up. She had none. All she can do now is whine and bludgeon the character of the teacher, who was exonerated at all levels of the process.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            What LGBQT students? How many were there? What about including material that interested her Muslim, Buddhist, Christian, Taoist students?

          • RWH

            All I’m seeing from you is a lot of hot air. The commonality between the poets was a sense of loss an the grief that accompanies it. That theme should appeal to all groups. That she included gays in the mix really disturbs you, doesn’t it? Your only problem is that the gays are not going to crawl off to die somewhere just because you don’t like them and wish that they would disappear..

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            The class’s theme wasn’t “grief and loss”. The class’s theme was poetry. The teacher is clueless. So is anyone defending her.

          • RWH

            The student went through the appeals process and lost every step along the way. Even the court said that she didn’t have a case. We all can’t be pathetic and losers. You have no idea as to what went on in the class. It was clear, however, that she was graded on a portfolio of work, and that work missed the mark–so far that she didn’t even pass the class. If there was anything redeeming in her work, she would have at least scraped by.

            If I had a dollar for every student who attributed a poor grade to “the professor didn’t like me,” I’d be a millionaire. You’re beating a dead horse. She field grievances. She went to court. She lost every step along the way. She reached the end of the line, and all she can do is to cry in public forums like this and get sympathy from the uninformed and those who hate gays.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You are making all sorts of assumptions about this student. Poor form for a prof. Did you persecute all your Christian students? And by the way, this student does NOT profess to be a Christian. She just wanted to be graded fairly by a professor who had a grudge.

          • RWH

            Apparently, you don’t know the difference between an assumption and a fact. Fact: She appealed at the University, at its various stages and lost. Fact: She filed a lawsuit, and the court threw it out because she doesn’t have a legal theory that she can use. Fact: She wanted the professor fired; she wanted her grade changed from an F to an A; she wanted the court to provide her with free legal services. She got none of these. This is all documented. Should I assume that reading comprehension is an issue with you?

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            The “professor” should be fired. A student who shows up every day and does all the work should at least receive a D, not an F. The prof showed extreme prejudice.

          • RWH

            One doesn’t pass a course by merely showing up and occupying a space. One doesn’t pass a course by simply submitting a sheet of paper. One has to prove that she meets the standards and objectives set for the course. Apparently, she did not do that.

            I worked at jobs where workers came in with a heightened sense of privilege, and when they lost their jobs after the 30-day review period, not a one would admit that their shoddy work was the cause for their dismissal. It’s always the “system” out to get them. Some of these types never do wake up.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Students who show up and who do the required work must receive at least a passing grade. You are a retired prof. You should know that.

          • RWH

            Maybe that rule exists in diploma mills, but it doesn’t exist in legitimate universities. If you think that this is the rule, I shudder to think of what crappy schools you attended. One does not get a passing grade for occupying a space. One gets a passing grade based on work product. By the way, I am not retired.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Students who show up and do the work have to get a passing grade. That’s how it works at any university or college with any credibility. Regarding your retirement, I assumed anyone close to 70 would be retired.

          • RWH

            Not in any school that I am aware of. Again, your confusion between unsupported generalizations and establish fact leaves anything you say questionable.

            Bottom line: You have no argument. You just have insults and unsupported generalizations. Give things a rest.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You cannot tell me that you are a professor and don’t know how the system works? You’ve proven why the US education system is not respected.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            She wasn’t though.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Indeed she was. There are too many “profs” who are merely propaganda pushers and not academics who teach anything worthwhile.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            It wasn’t propaganda.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            What do you call it when all the poetry has one theme and the poets sub-standard?

          • Lorne Zwelk

            Opinion.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Opinion isn’t supposed to be taught. Facts are. Thanks for proving my case for me. 🙂

          • Lorne Zwelk

            I meant that yours was the opinion. Not the teacher’s.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            The teacher only has opinion. She certainly didn’t operate under the reality of facts.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            She has the right to develop the curriculum of her choosing.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            No she doesn’t, not when she falsely advertises it. That’s what propagandists do.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            Is it propaganda merely because you don’t like it?

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            It’s propaganda when it’s using the guise of poetry to push an agenda.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            There is no agenda.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            The agenda is obvious.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            Why don’t you explain it then.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Why don’t you read my previous posts?

          • Lorne Zwelk

            Those were your opinions.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Facts aren’t opinions.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            Now we are going in circles. If you have actual FACTS to present about why you think this is an “obvious” agenda, it’s going to take more than your opinions to make it so.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You’re the one going in circles and being intentionally combative and obtuse. The facts have been presented. The student needs better legal representation. She has a case.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            I believe we were discussing the teacher’s “obvious agenda”. I asked you to explain it because it didn’t seem obvious to me. You told me to read your old posts. I did, and all I saw were a bunch of your opinions. I would like you to explain to me what the agenda is, and why you think it is obvious, and please do not refer me to things you’ve already said, because I have read them all and the answer is not to be found.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You seem confused about what an opinion and what a fact is. The course description promised one thing, while what the teacher actually taught was quite another. That’s the crux of the matter.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            I read through the story. She taught the poems she desired to teach. She didn’t teach classic poetry, she taught contemporary poetry. She has that right. She did not misrepresent herself or her course. What you are stating is an opinion. Had you been enrolled in the class yourself I would have advised to to find another if you did not like the material chosen.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            The name of the course was “Advanced Creative Writing Poetry”. It did not specify whether or not there would be a modern or classic poetry theme, and it certainly did not stipulate an LGBTQ theme.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            It didn’t have to.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Sure it does. Course descriptions should match the actual course.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            And it did. The complainant was the one who was demanding what was not being offered. And in her lawsuit she demanded that the failing grade be turned into an A. Not a fair request no matter how you want to slice it.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            It did not. Not only that, the prof chose lackluster poets, much like herself. There are so many poets out there to choose from. She just probably doesn’t know any of them.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            It was a modern poetry course, not a classic poetry course. In modern parlance there is going to be modern language including some profane stuff. But either way you’re still just offering opinions.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            The title does not state that it was a modern poetry course. That said, there are plenty of modern poets to choose from who are quite excellent. The prof failed to choose them.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            Your opinion only. And the case was dismissed. The whole story is a damp squib. Move along, folks, nothing to see here.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            It’s going to be appealed and opinion has nothing to do with it. The course has an outline and its implementation did not match that outline. The professor should be fired.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            She will lose her appeal. She has no case. And she was honest about her course outline which was called “Advanced Creative Writing Poetry”.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            “Advanced Creative Writing Poetry” does not suggest LBGQT poetry nor does it suggest modern poetry. The professor is a hack. This isn’t the first time she’s been criticized.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            Why would “Advanced Creative Writing Poetry” exclude LGBT material? There is nothing inherent in the title to suggest it.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Why would it focus solely on LGBQT poetry? There is nothing inherent in the title to suggest it.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            Who said “solely”? Besides you?
            And so you admit yourself you have no leg to stand on. This is exactly why the case got thrown out. That, and the woman demanding she had her grade changed to an “A”.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            The court records. You should read them. The student should have prevailed.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            You have access to the court records? Link please.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Daily Mail.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            That’s not a link.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            That’s because you can’t link here.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            I found the Daily Mail story. There is no link to the court documents. It would have been interesting to read though since it never made it to court, it was thrown out.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You must have missed the thumbnail that you could have clicked. The student sued because, according to the UWSP Handbook, the instructor needed to provide a written statement on how the final grade would be established and she didn’t. The assignments completed did not have letter grades, only check marks with +’s and -‘s. The student completed all the assignments and, as a result, should have passed. The professor admitted she taught the course with bias.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            Nothing you posted shows up anywhere online, not a bit of it. There are no thumbnails to click on the Daily Mail story. The professor did not admit any such thing because she is not able to speak about the incident: “Dyjak declined to comment for this article through the state Attorney
            General’s office, which represented her in court because the university
            is a function of the state.” Speaking on her behalf is Assistant Attorney General Katherine Spitz, who was the one who asked that the case be dismissed, which it was. In terms of an appeal it only indicates that it’s being considered. There is no reference to the UWSP Handbook online relating to this news story.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Sorry, but you are wrong. The quote already appears on this page, and was made by others as well as myself. The professor has admitted bias. The school is at fault for allowing it.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            The professor, as has been pointed out to you, has been forced to remain silent on the matter, so no, she did not admit bias. And none of the dozen or so articles online I located make any mention of it. You could easily provide a link, many people do here by omitting the period and writing “dot” in its place, etc. This would prove conclusively you are not lying.

            I have only just noticed that you’re having all the same things pointed out to you by no less than three other people here, and you appear to be giving them all the same dodges. I think I sense someone is playing games here.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You must have missed the direct quote where the professor admitted bias.

            You’re just unhappy that you have been proven wrong.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            Me and the other people here who have handed your butt to you? Show where the quote is, or admit you’ve lied.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            How many times do you want it repeated? Did you not read the article?

            Dyjak chose poetry “that would appeal to … my LGBT students.”

          • Lorne Zwelk

            Yeah, and? RGB has already told you that there was a balance of LGBT and straight material. Nothing she did is wrong.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            RGB misrepresented the facts. The professor admitted the work was LGBQT material.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            Nobody cares. That is the professir’s right. You can’t sue for that.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Students care. That’s why this isn’t over.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            You are the only one keeping it alive.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            The student groups who are reporting on this are keeping it alive. They have every right to.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            Yeah, that isn’t going on.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            How do you know? You weren’t familiar with any of the particulars of the case.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            No, I know the case very well. I am not the one lying about it. Tell me again about the magical thumbnail I should click on the Daily Mail story.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            It’s not my problem you can’t find it. The entire 10 pages also appear in the Stevens Point Journal.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            Here’s the headline from the Stevens Point Journal: “UWSP student asks court to force poetry professor to give her an A”. Is THAT the place you want me to look? Are you sure? Doesn’t sound like it’s something that lends any credence to your side of this story. The “10 pages” you refer to is merely the text of the lawsuit.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            The 10 pages are the legal documents – you know, the ones you claim don’t exist.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            Yes. The text of the lawsuit. Which adds nothing to your claim.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Sure it does. You also claimed it did not exist and there it is! You finally found it! Be sure to check out the comments too, on that article and others. Most side with the student.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            The simple text of the lawsuit is not what I consider court documents.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You must be confused. Those are actual court documents.

          • Lorne Zwelk

            Did you read them? What do you think they are? How do you think they help the plaintiff?

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Of course I read them. I seem to be the only one here who has. 🙂

          • Sisyphus

            A right to sue, sure, but not a right to prevail. Students also have the right to attend a university more in tune with their sensibilities. If one finds words and ideas so offensive, perhaps a secular school is not the appropriate place to continue one’s education. I urge all my students that are offended by controversial speech and ideas to find a different class.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            She should prevail. She was failed for her religion.

      • Colin Rafferty

        So because she failed to read the contents page of the textbook or the syllabus, this is somehow the teacher’s fault.

  • Good Grief

    Go to a religious college… problem solved.

    • Grace Kim Kwon

      That makes America one big unfair country. If Sodomites commit crimes against the Christians, they do that to everyone else including each other.

      • Good Grief

        What crime?

        • Grace Kim Kwon

          Treating Christians unfairly.

          • Worf

            “Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.”

            ― Ralph Waldo Emerson

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Americans bully the Christians. It’s a fact. Read this types of news. Germany bullied Europeans by racism 80 years ago. USA does that by Sodomy while controlling everything on earth. USA’s atrocities are going to be worse if Christians don’t stop her.

          • Worf

            “Germany bullied Europeans by racism 80 years ago.”

            Please, for your own sake, learn some history from somewhere other than church.

            Germany was strictly a christian nation 80 years ago. Hitler, while not christian himself, frequently used christian rhetoric to turn the German people against the jews. It was CHRISTIANS that gave up their jewish neighbors to the nazis to be arrested and murdered.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            No, the Germans blasphemed and accepted blasphemous theology and humanism and Darwinism in the start of last century. That’s why they became villains. Countless Christians died protecting the Jews. The Western whites have been powerful because of the Judeo-Christian values, and the Germans got falsely puffed up and committed atrocities last century. The English are doing it for the love of Sodomy this century. It’s ridiculous that mankind should be oppressed by the English for refusing to accept Sodomy.

          • Good Grief

            How?

  • Colin Rafferty

    This special snowflake was triggered, and is suing because, after learning exactly what the course was actually about, she got upset that it wasn’t the course she would have preferred. And then, rather than changing to a different class (very typical in the first week of school), stuck around in order to continue to be horrified at the course she chose to take.

    Having said, that, there may be a case for the failing grade being retaliation, but there is nothing in the story to back that up other than her bare assertion.

    • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

      The professor, who couldn’t bear to hear a dissenting opinion, was the snowflake.

      • Colin Rafferty

        The professor had a syllabus, and taught to the syllabus. Students don’t go into class and tell the professor to change the syllabus. And when they do, should expect to be shot down.

      • Parodyx

        Is it your opinion her curriculum should only be approved by extreme right wing evangelicals?

      • Worf

        The student, who thought her delicate sensibilities entitled her to special treatment, was the snowflake.

        Not liking the content of a class she VOLUNTARILY signed up for does not give her the right to fail the class and demand a free A.

        Anybody who has been to college will tell you, students don’t always agree with their professors. But the professor is the one leading the class, and as long as they doesn’t violate any rules, they can teach it how they want.

        • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

          The student was failed for her religion. The professor is a snowflake who pushed her agenda rather than teach the subject at hand.

          • Worf

            The professor is perfectly allowed to push her agenda as long as she doesn’t break any university rules or laws. The entitled student tried to push HER agenda rather than just finish the class she signed up for.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            No she is not, and that is why this sort of thing needs to be exposed and shut down.

          • Worf

            Show me the documented rules/laws against what this professor did.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            So you’re pro-propaganda?

          • Worf

            I am pro-free speech. The teacher is allowed to have an agenda, and the student has to either put up with it, leave, or fail. The student is also free to push her agenda legally in situations where she is the one making the choices.

            But you are deflecting so i will say it again:

            Show me the documented rules/laws against what this professor did.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            That’s false. What you’re advocating is propaganda, not free speech. Propaganda has no place in an institute of learning.

          • Worf

            Propaganda is legal and protected by free speech.
            Again:
            Show me the documented rules/laws against what this professor did.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            No it isn’t, not when it comes to class.

          • Worf

            This has been fun and all, but you continually refuse to address the main point in regard to the article.
            Until you can provide a relevant and meaningful response to this statement, my point is made and I have no reason to debate it further:

            >>> Show me the documented rules/laws against what this professor did. <<<

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            The main point is that the professor did not teach a poetry class, but taught a thinly veiled lesbian class disguised as a poetry class. She failed a student for being too smart to buy into the agenda.

          • Worf

            Show me the documented rules/laws against what this professor did.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Dude, do you bother to read my posts or are you just going to keep babbling the same question? The professor was supposed to teach a poetry class. She did not. Instead she taught a lesbian class. The rules are that you’re supposed to teach on the advertised subject. She did not. She should be fired.

          • Worf

            I do read your posts. You have yet to show ANYTHING other than your opinions that the professor did anything wrong. She gets to choose how she teaches her class, and the students can either do the expected work, drop the class, or fail.

            There are no legal grounds for a lawsuit or firing, and you saying, “The rules are that you’re supposed to teach on the advertised subject.” is a totally unsupported claim.

            If you think there are grounds, show me documentation of the laws or rules. The courts have no interest in personal opinions on the matter.

            “She should be fired.”

            Not if she didn’t break any rules.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            She taught a class about one topic while being paid to teach about another. That’s fraud. She should be fired.

          • Worf

            Cite the legal precedent that shows she can be fired for what she did. You have yet to support this claim with anything other than opinions.

            They studied poetry in a poetry class. The subject of the poems is not relevant.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            They studied lesbianism. The fact that a few “poems” made it through is meaningless.

          • Worf

            You still have yet to show the teacher can be legally fired.

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            Failing a student for her religion is grounds for firing.

          • Chris

            The student didn’t alleged any such thing. The article says “Kikkert believes that it [her failed grade] is retaliation for reporting the professor to the chair of the university English Department.”

            No mention of religion at all.

          • PilgrimGirl

            What religion is that?

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            Any religion, any prejudice. Discrimination is wrong.

          • PilgrimGirl

            You said that “failing a student for her religion…” The student’s religion, if any, was never mentioned. In fact, religion has nothing at all to do with this story. Stop making things up. Your lack of credibility is showing. Again.

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            Why are you so argumentative and hostile?

          • PilgrimGirl

            People who love truth have no problem with me.

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            Irony is your forte only you don’t realize it.

          • PilgrimGirl

            People are never happy when someone calls them out on a lie. Perhaps they shouldn’t lie. Problem solved.

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            What in the world are you talking about?

          • PilgrimGirl

            Your “failing a student because of her religion” – the latest comment you’ve pulled out of thin air.

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            Uh, no. The teacher and student exchanged emails. The professor made assumptions. You really should read up on the subject before falsely accusing others. You won’t look so foolish then.

          • PilgrimGirl

            Cite your source. Specifically.

          • PilgrimGirl

            There you go again… Sad, really.

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            Why are you following me around making comments after your original ones have been deleted?

          • PilgrimGirl

            Haha! You’re funny 🙂

  • Nidalap

    “Be indoctrinated or fail.” appears to be the message of the day…

    • Colin Rafferty

      More like, if you don’t actually like the syllabus of a class, you shouldn’t sign up for it.

      Though if he did fail her as some kind of retaliation, and not because of the quality of her work, that would be wrong. But the article just makes the assertion without any supporting evidence, unlike the evidence of the various triggering poems.

    • Sisyphus

      Here’s a thought, don’t take the elective class, or go to a religious university.

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        That’s unfair to Christians in the USA.

        • Nick Bush

          And giving Christians special treatment is unfair to non-Christians in the USA.

  • PilgrimGirl

    Why did the student, who failed the course in the Spring 2015 semester, wait until late December 2016 to file her lawsuit? A year and a half seems like a long delay. Also, if she enrolled in the class because she wanted to study classic poets (Frost, London, Dickinson, Poe, etc. as she said), why didn’t she drop the course when she realized the textbooks for the course were written by 21st century poets (Mark Doty, Marie Howe, Sharon Olds, Terrance Hayes, and Sammy Greenspan)? In my experience, textbooks are always identified before or at the beginning of a college course. Strange story. Very strange.

    • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

      Why should she have to drop the class? Just because poets are modern doesn’t mean they have to be obscene.

      • PilgrimGirl

        “Donna Kikkert said that when she enrolled in the advanced creative writing poetry course at the university in 2014, she wanted to study classic poets.” It turns out the class wasn’t about classic poets, it wasn’t what she wanted. Why wouldn’t she drop it?

        • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

          Because she had every right to expect that a class about poetry would involve some real poets.

        • Chris

          Good point. It’s a simple matter to transfer from one class to another.

      • Colin Rafferty

        So a class is scheduled, with a roomful of students signed up, and on the first day, one student finds out she was wrong about the syllabus.

        And your solution to this problem is for the professor to change the entire class for this one student. That’s pretty stupid.

      • Worf

        She doesn’t have to drop the class. But if she wants to pass she does have to abide by the professor’s class structure, just like any college.

        If a non-christian took a class on christian history, then proceeded to complain about the written content the they were given, it would be perfectly reasonable to fail that student.

        Obscenity is subjective. Just because you find something icky doesn’t mean everybody else does.

        • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

          The reason why we have scholastic standards is because some things are just not subjective. This professor overstepped her bounds and needs to be called out.

          • Worf

            “Advanced Creative Writing” is a subjective course. The professor is allowed to choose the subject matter of the class. If the student didn’t like the content of the course, she was free to drop it. Students do NOT get to dictate what the content of the class is.

            By demanding she not be failed because she found the content unpleasant, the student was the one overstepping. Her personal attitudes toward the course no not give her the right to demand special treatment.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            That’s nonsense. Professors are not without biases, and if they are abusing Christian students, they need to be called out on it. I have a friend who took a Hebrew course. He is fluent in Hebrew. The non-Hebrew speaking prof (yes, really) tried to fail him because he caught her making error after error and because he caught her putting anti-Semitic nonsense into the course. Professors do this kind of thing all the time and need to be called out on it.

          • Worf

            “…abusing Christian students”

            She had to read things she didn’t like for a college class. Oh the horror. Oh the humanity.
            Welcome to reality.

            Professors are allowed to have bias. You might not like it. They might be bad teachers as a result. It still does not change the fact that the students do not get to determine the content of the class. Everybody has had bad professors. But we just bit the bullet and did the work we were assigned.

            The student in this article has an over-inflated sense of her own opinions. What is filth to her was perfectly acceptable to the rest of the class, and she was the ONLY one demanding special treatment.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            It goes beyond not liking something. The teacher used bad poetry to push an agenda, not to promote poetry.

          • Worf

            Imagine a liberal went to a conservative college and failed a Literature class because the professor chose christian books and the student objected to the content.
            Do you think that student should sue to get a passing grade? Should any student that doesn’t like their class content get to sue to pass?

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            That doesn’t fly. This isn’t a liberal/conservative thing. Either a professor is going to teach poetry, or is going to push a sick agenda. Can’t do both. This prof is ineffective and should be let go.

          • Worf

            “push a sick agenda”

            This is pure opinion. Clearly the rest of the class was fine with the content. The special snowflake does not get special treatment because she finds lesbians icky.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            It’s not opinion. The prof didn’t even choose good poets. There are plenty of great poets living today. She didn’t choose them because they wouldn’t push her agenda.

          • Worf

            “Good poets” is a subjective topic, and therefore an opinion. What is bad to you might be good to another and the other way around. As the professor, it is up to her what poetry is part of the class.
            The student was free to read about her favorite poets on her own time.
            The professor is free to choose to include them in the course or not as she pleases.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Oh come on. Good isn’t subjective. Either work is quality or it is not.

          • Worf

            sub·jec·tive
            adjective
            1. Based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.

            Quality of poetry is about as subjective as something can get.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            No it isn’t. Poetry has certain criteria that shows whether it’s good or not.

          • Worf

            That is entirely false. The quality of ANY form of entertainment is totally subjective, and even more so with something as broad and varied as poetry.

            It is certainly true that there is poetry that is objectively good regardless of opinion. But the quality of the vast vast vast majority or poetry is 100% subjective/opinion/personal. What is good to you might be bad to me. What is good to me might be bad to you.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Dude, that’s false. There are many kinds of poetry and rules to all of them.

          • Worf

            ” There are many kinds of poetry and rules to all of them.”
            Poetry has no hard and fast rules. That’s the whole point. It is a free art form. Can be anything from rigidly structured literalism to abstract chaotic nonsense.
            And yes, there are many kinds of poetry. A staggering variety. Too many to have “rules” for. And this professor chose the kinds she wanted. If she considers them good, neither your opinions nor the opinions of her students matter.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You are quite incorrect. There are rules to sonnets, limericks, haiku, tanka, narrative, etc. etc.

          • Worf

            You are partly correct. Those kinds of poems do have set rules. But there is no rule saying poets have to write poems that conform to standard formats, nor is there a rule that a poem has to follow those forms to be good.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            I’m not partly correct. Those are the rules. There are no if’s and’s or but’s about it. If you make everything poetry, then nothing is poetry. Poetry becomes obsolete. Surely you are not arguing that that is how to “teach” poetry?

          • Worf

            Someone can “teach” poetry in any way they want. It is an open art form.
            My father and sister both study poetry extensively. A lifelong exposure to it has left me perfectly aware that, while a lot of poetry follows the rules you seem obsessed with, much of it is in a poet’s personal style and does not conform to any standards.

            Letting individuals decide what they consider poetry or not does not make it obsolete, just as chaotic abstract art does not make painting as a whole obsolete.

            What YOU consider poetry has no bearing on what someone else can consider poetry.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            It is not an open art form. There are rules and guidelines as I’ve detailed.

            Now you want to ramble off into another unrelated topic (art) which is just a red herring on your part.

            The subject was advertised as poetry. Poetry was not taught. Lesbianism was. The prof should be fired.

          • Worf

            Poetry was taught. You just don’t like the topic. Just because it is about lesbians does not mean it isn’t poetry. There are plenty of poems/poets i find disgusting, but my opinion has no bearing on it being poetry.

            Also, poetry is a form of art, and has always been considered such. It is becoming clear to me that you have a middle school level understanding of poetry at best. You know some terms and definitions, but fundamentally don’t understand the point behind it.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Dude, throwing in some poorly formed verse is not the same as teaching poetry. The class was a lesbian class thinly disguised as a “poetry” class. You clearly are clueless about poetry, among other things.

          • Worf

            “You clearly are clueless about poetry, among other things.”

            Sorry if I don’t take advice on reading/writing/poetry from someone who uses “Dude” at the start of half their comments.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Then you clearly must not support the professor who used poetry in her class that also contained the word “Dude”. You make this so easy – Dude.

          • Worf

            I don’t object to the word dude, nor would i say a poem isn’t a poem for using it. If a professor wants to teach a poetry class that exclusively reads poems that use the word “dude”, they should go for it.
            It just comes off as sophomoric and condescending.

            And even if I thought it was some evil ‘dude agenda’, I would still do that class as expected because I would be a student, and my goal would be to pass the class regardless of content. I went to college to get a degree. Not to obsess over my dogmatic professors, and I had plenty.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            It was advertised as a poetry class. Instead, it was a lesbian class. Good on at least one student for standing up to the prof instead of conforming like a dumb sheep.

          • RWH

            There are no hard nor fast rules to any of those types. However, the professor would know the difference between hack work and work of good quality, Apparently, the student didn’t live up to the standard. My guess is that the student needed some lessons in tact and diplomacy. It’s interesting that she is the only one complaining about bias. I reviewed what was on the internet, and she has no supporters among the rest of the class.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Yes there are. You clearly are ignorant on the topic of poetry. There are line lengths, rhyming schemes for some, breath counts for others, line lengths, etc. etc.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Ever heard of “free verse”?

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Indeed I have. Free verse is not without its own form, because it a.) does not rhyme, b.) is not a haiku, c.) is not a tanka, d.) is not a sonnet, e.) does not end in couplets, f.) must be distinguishable from prose, g.) must contain rhythm and nuance, and h.) must highlight the cadence of speech.

            Any other questions?

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Yeah, I got one question…

            Do you really think how well something follows the rules of its form is the measure of the merit of an artistic work?

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Depends on the form. For example, a sonnet is not a sonnet without first following the form.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Sure, but if it doesn’t “follow the form”, does that make it a bad poem?

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Sure, because part of form is having cadence and poetic language. Otherwise it’s just bad prose written funny.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “Poetic language”? Isn’t that subjective as to just what that means?

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            No.

          • RWH

            Apparently, your idea of poetry is somehow following some mechanical formula. That makes for terrible stuff. Writing poetry isn’t like building something with an erector set or learning how to color within the lines, being very careful to color the spots labeled as 3 as green and those labeled as 2 in purple. In short, I don’t think that you know much about poetry.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Form and matter do not equate mechanics. You are arguing about a topic you know nothing about, and you’re carefully evading the fact that the professor did not teach the subject she was hired to teach, but rather used the class as her own propaganda-fueled rant fest.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Yeah, and you know what those criteria are? If people like it.

            I don’t claim to be an expert on poetry, but I do know music, and people don’t judge a song on how it adheres to the conventions of song structure or if the harmony or melody follows accepted notions of musical theory. (or if they do, they shouldn’t! Ha)

          • Ambulance Chaser

            “Good isn’t subjective”? It’s practically the definition of subjective!

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            The fact that you think such a thing merely proves that you don’t know much about poetry or the arts. 🙂

          • RWH

            I looked up all of the poets she mentioned. Each won several prestigious prizes for their work and are recognized by the literary community as good writers. They may not be good poets in your opinion, but you’re not a literary person, so apparently, your uninformed opinion apparently doesn’t count.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            They are not considered stellar poets in the poetry community. You do not know me nor my work, so you cannot judge what my credentials are. 🙂

          • RWH

            I don’t need to know your work. It can’t be that good with your limited sense of intellectual curiosity. Rather than look these poets up, what others say about them, their various prizes and awards, and even bothering to read some of their writings, you have already decided that they are not stellar. So, I can either believe your uninformed opinions, or I can look up their accomplishments. They have an established track record and have taught at some prestigious universities. All you have is unsupported generalizations and lots of hot air.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            What prizes? Do you think a course about poetry should contain one theme only? Of course not! The prof was derelict, a propagandist. She would fit in fine in Nazi Germany. Fire her!

          • RWH

            From what I could see about the poets, they have one thing in common in that they talk about loss. That is a legitimate theme. One talked about the loss of a partner. Whether it’s from AIDS or cancer, it’s still a universal theme. Only two of the authors are gay. It’s significant that one talked about the loss of family due to so-called Christian parents who were down on everything and who literally disowned her when they discovered she was gay. The other three are straight and married.

            We have no evidence that the professor was derelict or a propagandist other than your uninformed opinion. Since you can’t be bothered to look up anything about the poets, whom I am sure are unfamiliar to you as well, it stands to reason that you don’t know one iota of what actually went on in the class.

            That you can pass judgment without looking up the facts from a multitude of sources and checking for bias, I can only assume that this is the way you live your life, and whatever work you claim to have written will reflect this lack of intellectual curiosity. I’m not interested in the opinions of people who pass judgement without looking at as many facts as possible.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            The professor admits she intentionally chose LGBQT themes. So much for her ability to choose curriculum that matches the course title. Fire her.

          • RWH

            The course title was neutral. It allows the professor to select any theme as long as the objectives of the course are made. Your problem is that you hate gays and would like to see them disappear. If you looked at the commonality of all of the poets, they talked about loss. That, apparently, is another topic that you don’t feel belongs in a university.

            For the umteenth time, only two of the poets are gay. The rest are straight. You also don’t know if she didn’t bring in additional authors. The fact remains that all of the readings were contemporary and the authors were responding to tragic things that we all have in common. The course was not about imitating past forms nor was it about writing mechanical forms from historical models.

            You don’t have a case. Talk all you want, but this lady lost her appeal at the various levels within the University, and the court threw her case out because she had no legitimate case. You can cry and moan all you want. You lost!

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            That’s incorrect. Clearly, you’ve never taught at college level. The professor’s course outline did not match the subject matter. She pushed an agenda rather than teaching about poetry, a topic the prof knew sorely little about.

            The student may have lost the case – for now – but that doesn’t mean she will lose an appeal, nor does it mean the professor was right. This isn’t the last you’ll hear about this “professor” who is not well liked. You’ll see.

          • RWH

            She went through the entire process and lost. And I do know what is going on. I’m an assistant chair of an academic department, and I know the rules, and I certainly know what accrediting boards demand within course syllabi. She went through the various stages an didn’t prevail. Courts are not going to get involved in academic decisions if the university can show that it has a comprehensive grievance process and that process was followed. No judge is going to sit there and grade papers for courses he knows nothing about.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            She should appeal. She could easily win.

          • RWH

            She went through various stages of appeal, and she lost. You’re desperate to win a lost case. It’s over. The court threw her case out. She can appeal to a higher court, but they are not going to take her case on the sole platform that she didn’t like the previous decision.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You’re a US retired prof, right? You obviously are very sensitive about the issue at hand because you know that it reflects poorly upon the system that gives you any credibility. US colleges and universities are horrible. They are churning out snowflakes and non-thinkers. This student did not regurgitate what the professor shoved down everyone’s throats. This student should be applauded.

          • RWH

            Your argument is so pathetic that it almost doesn’t warrant a response. My school and others like it produce high quality people that get good jobs. I don’t know what value of education you have had, but if you think that unsupported generalizations produce solid evidence, whatever schools you went to have failed you mightily.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You teach business writing. That’s hardly poetry. 🙂

          • RWH

            One does not have to teach anything to see the merits of this case. What is so tragic is that your arguments are getting sillier and more pathetic. She doesn’t have a case that will hold up in court. Courts are interested if the University did not give the student a fair shake in the appeals process. Apparently, they were able to prove that she was treated fairly. End of story. Judges cannot tell a University to fire someone.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You keep repeating yourself. You seem to be taking this awfully personally. Do you fail students if you don’t like their religion? Ethnicity? Skin color?

          • RWH

            I’m repeating myself because you have difficulties processing factual information. At this point, you’re just resorting to insults, behavior which isn’t Christian and is specifically prohibited on this discussion board. Enjoy your venom while it lasts; most likely this stream will disappear. Over a hundred posts have disappeared already on this thread.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You keep repeating yourself because you think that if a lie is repeated often enough, it will be believed. Truth will prevail.

          • RWH

            Truth has prevailed. The student lost her case. Move on!

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Truth will prevail. The propagandist professor will be exposed.

          • Worf

            “This isn’t a liberal/conservative thing.”

            But it is though. This is a case of social conservatism clashing with social liberalism. Both people involved have their own “agenda” that lines up with their social leanings.

            Answer the question: Should any student be able to fail a class they don’t agree with, and then sue the professor to get a passing grade?

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            An education shouldn’t have an agenda.

    • RWH

      Schools have a lengthy appeals process. In most universities, the student would be required to speak to the professor first. If she got no satisfaction, she could go to the Department Chair. The case would be sent to the grade appeals committee of the department. There might be another step or two, but the case would finally be decided by the President of the University. Apparently, she didn’t have a case, and the fact that she wanted the professor suspended or fired hints that this is much more than a grade appeal. The viciousness of the request would been noted all the way up the ladder.

      • Chris

        I tend to agree. I’ve met some students who had a problem with the grade given. All they usually appealed for was reconsideration of the grade.

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    Pagans are power-oriented and mess up things for the mass. America must stay truth-oriented to conduct fairness, transparency, and justice. Education’s purpose itself is finding out the truth and be good. America must stop being submissive to homosexuality. Christianity is true and good, but homosexuality is destructive sinful. The West needs Christianity to be honest and good.

  • Honesty Counts

    This Professor sought to indoctrinate her students and did not seek to provide a fair and balanced curriculum for her class, and then when she was called on it she used her position to be malicious and retalitory to this student.
    This is not education, this is indoctrination!

    • Grace Kim Kwon

      Yes, Sodomites are malicious. They do not choose methods to oppress the Christians.

    • PilgrimGirl

      Indoctrination on a college campus?? Really??? THAT’s never happened before!! ROFL!!

      • Chris

        Being exposed to other viewpoints is NOT indoctrination. Additionally students do NOT get to decide what they will and will not read out of assigned work. The reading list is mentioned in the course description. If the student had any problems with it that was the time to sign up for another course.

        • PilgrimGirl

          I agree that being exposed to other viewpoints is not indoctrination. In this case, though, as the student describes her experience, there was more than exposure to another viewpoint going on: there was a consistent theme and subject matter to the poetry selected by the prof. This scenario at hand fits the definition of indoctrination stating, “the act of indoctrinating, or teaching or inculcating a doctrine, principle, or ideology, especially one with a specific point of view”. That said – totally agree that students don’t get to choose the course material. If they don’t like it, they either need to “suffer through it” or drop the course.

          • Chris

            “I agree that being exposed to other viewpoints is not indoctrination.”

            Thank you. Being exposed to alternate viewpoints is what a university does best.

            “In this case, though, as the student describes her experience, there
            was more than exposure to another viewpoint going on: there was a
            consistent theme and subject matter to the poetry selected by the prof. ”

            Yes. It was poems whose theme was loss. Two of the authors of these poems were homosexual and the rest were straight. All expressed loss of one sort or another.

            “This scenario at hand fits the definition of indoctrination stating,
            “the act of indoctrinating, or teaching or inculcating a doctrine,
            principle, or ideology, especially one with a specific point of view”. ”

            But they weren’t. There was no consistent view in the poems. As I said the only consistency was one of loss.

            “That said – totally agree that students don’t get to choose the course material. If they don’t like it, they either need to “suffer through it” or drop the course.”

            I could not agree more. If the student really found the poems selected so offensive to her sensibilities then she should have transferred to another class. Or, as you so rightly pointed out, just do the work.

          • PilgrimGirl

            “It was poems whose theme was loss. Two of the authors of these poems were homosexual and the rest were straight. All expressed loss of one sort or another.” and “the only consistency was one of loss”. Where did you get that information?

          • Chris

            My bad. I should have explained. Several posters lower down the thread post about having done further research into the case from other news sources as well as the university and researching the poets who were chosen for the class. Apparently all of them have received praise for their work and have received awards in some cases.

          • PilgrimGirl

            Thanks, Chris! I’ll take a peek and try to find what you read. I’m also curious as to who posted the additional research. I’ve crossed paths with a few posters lately who post “facts” that have no substantiation whatsoever. Master magicians, one might say… 🙂

          • Chris

            well it’s a simple matter to do research concerning the uni. Most post course requirements on their website. Then go from there to research the poets named. That’s pretty simple.

          • PilgrimGirl

            While I agree that research can be done, the course description is quite vague and researching the poets would not result in knowing what poems the professor had selected for her course material. My comment that, “there was a consistent theme and subject matter to the poetry selected by the prof” was based on the information in this article which stated, “[Professor] Dyjak responded that members of the University of Wisconsin community need to have tolerance toward one another, and that when she chose the poems, she purposefully selected material “that would appeal to … my LGBT students.” The professor herself openly admitted that she biased her course material toward a specific group.

          • Chris

            Yes I read that too. But if only two of the poems chosen were by homosexuals her remak that “she purposefully selected material “that would appeal to … my LGBT students.” would still qualify. After all not all the poems have to be by homosexuals for that statement to be true. Additionally, as I stated, the main theme of the poems seemed to be about loss. One of them was by someone who had lost a lover to AIDS. The other featured loss in other areas of life and other ways.

            If you need help to research these poems for yourself I’m sure the poster who gave out the details would oblige with info on where the details were found, etc.

          • PilgrimGirl

            I’m sorry, Chris, you can’t take the word of another commenter that “the main theme of the poems seemed to be about loss” and state it as fact. Twice. RWH has no idea which poems by these poets were part of that class nor the consensus of the overall body of material. He drew inferences based on his limited research of the poets themselves. The best we have to go on are the words of the professor who said she selected material to appeal to her LGBT students. Thus, I can see how she would be teaching or inculcating with a specific point of view in mind.

          • Chris

            Two points.
            1) I’ve already admitted where I got my info. Unless you have spoken to RWH it is you who can’t make statements as fact.
            2) Professors can push a particular viewpoint. I certainly had professors who did. But poetry is hardly a good medium for propaganda.

          • PilgrimGirl

            *sigh*…

          • Chris

            “facepalm” Hey this is fun.

          • PilgrimGirl

            Good one!

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            He copied it from a business writing prof who made it up. Research it yourself.

          • RWH

            Two corrections: First:The “Business Writing” prof teaches a lot more than professional writing. Second: I looked things up as one is supposed to do. I didn’t sit back and libel others.

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            You surmised, and you don’t have the experience to do so. The professor has bad reviews from others, not just this student.

          • RWH

            I can surmise plenty of stuff. The student didn’t like her grade. She complained and went through the appeals process at the university. Grade appeals committees within the English Department and the University-Wide heard her case, and they didn’t buy her arguments. They didn’t buy the “lesbian” excuse. They didn’t buy the hack writer excuse if she used it. They didn’t buy the persecution excuse. She lost. She apparently waited until the appeals were over to take her case to the court. They didn’t buy her excuses either because she could not prove that any policies or laws were broken. She not only wants a grade changed from an F to an A, which is not ever going to happen. Judges don’t grade poetry papers. She wanted the teacher fired. That isn’t going to happen. She wants free legal help. In other words, she wants to “get” the teacher and have someone else pay the bills. That isn’t going to happen. Accrediting agencies look at due process issues such as this one, so Stephens Point University would have had all of the steps I have mentioned plus more.

            By the way, sites like Ratemyprofessor have zero credibility. Either you or I could write a rating on that professor without ever setting foot on that campus. Often students can’t remember the name of the professor, and I have had colleagues receive ratings on courses that they never ever taught. If you’re going to go by student ratings, each university has a system in place, and if the school is a state university, they are public records as are course syllabi and all that.

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            False. The teacher’s marking system was a checkmark per assignment. If the student did every assignment, they were supposed to receive an A. The student in question had a checkmark next to every assignment yet received an F. The student who sued is not the only one to have a problem with this professor. The professor should be fired.

          • RWH

            No, the instructor gave out check plus and check minus as well. The instructor used this system for works in progress. The product that was graded was a portfolio at the end of the course. The plus an minus thing was a sign of progress, not a final grade. This is the way a lot of creative writing classes are graded. In short, these checks were stops along the way. Significantly, the student never said if her work was a check, a check plus, or a check minus. All we have is her word, and I don’t think that her word can be trusted.

            The bottom line is that she was graded on her final portfolio of written work. She was not graded on the assigned poetry readings Neither you or I know exactly what went on in class, but since the system that the instructor used allowed students to improve their work and resubmit, my guess is that this student preferred to fight the teacher rather than improve her work. I have had a few of this type throughout the years. They never win. When they complain, they will be asked why they didn’t follow the advice the instructor gave. Then the student’s real attitude surfaces.

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            You’re making a lot of false assumptions here. You are incorrect in those assumptions.

          • RWH

            Say anything you want. I know how the system works, and by the fact that this student lost all her appeals and has no legitimate legal theory in order to file a lawsuit, I stand by may assessment. All you have is unsubstantiated accusations based on some sort of bias that blinds you to the facts.

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            The university itself doesn’t dispute what I’ve outlined.

          • RWH

            She didn’t win her appeal. How much clearer and factual do you need things? After she went through the process, her grade stood. The court threw the case out. She lost! Case closed. Say what you want. Those are the facts.

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            The part about the student receiving all check marks and that being the professor’s grading system hasn’t been disputed. Again, you might want to read details about the actual case before making these comments. Justice wasn’t served this time, but hopefully the student will appeal.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Appeal? Why? So that an appellate court can tell her again that a complaint that doesn’t state a cause of action is properly dismissed?

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            There you go assuming again. This is not the first time this professor has had complaints lodged against her. It probably won’t be the last.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Irrelevant. An appellate court is not concerned with what happened to this professor in the past.

            The complaint was dismissed because it failed to state a cause of action. Ordinarily, that means that the facts as stated don’t establish the elements of the offenses as charged, or the stated facts admit to some affirmative defense being present.

            In this case, the complaint LITERALLY DOES NOT STATE A CAUSE OF ACTION. As in, the section where causes of action are supposed to be pled just isn’t there. There’s NOTHING pled. What kind of argument do you think she can make on appeal that would overcome that deficiency?

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            You keep veering off on other topics and jumping into other people’s conversations with red herrings. This is not the first, nor probably the last, time you will see a complaint against this professor.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Okay, so when you said you hope the student appeals, and I asked you why you thought she had some hope of winning on appeal, you think that’s irrelevant?

          • RWH

            That bit about checkmarks has very much been disputed. The student took that lame assertion to the Department Chair, and that excuse was rejected. She then took it up the ladder, and again, it was rejected. The lady is going to court because she didn’t prevail at the University. She’s now trying to get the court to force the University to give her an A and to fire the teacher. The court rejected that. Why can’t you see that. It is so very obvious. Nobody gets an A for simply doing the work and turning in the assignments. The assignments must be A quality to receive an A. The final grade was determined by the portfolio, not a bunch of checkmarks. That was made very plain in the documents that the lady filed with the court, and the court responded that she doesn’t deserve an A because she thinks that she should get an A.
            I read all the details. The documents specifically state that the professor gave plusses and minuses to those check marks.
            The student was under the impression that all she had to do is submit work, and no matter what the quality of that work, she deserves an A. She also wanted the teacher fired and free legal representation. It’s all in the documents, both the one she filed and the court response. The case is over. Unless she can come up with a sound reason that a law was broken or a policy was not followed, she has no case. The court was very specific in stating that there is no apparatus for forcing a teacher to teach certain works. In other words, courts don’t get involved in curricular decisions. The document also states that grades are determined by the quality of the work, not what the student thinks she deserves. It’s all there in black and white.

            You’re getting more and more desperate. Argue all you want, but the case is over unless she can find a valid legal reason. On the web is the paperwork that the student submitted in December and the response that the court gave later. She lost. There is no sound legal procedure for forcing a teacher to alter curriculum to suit the student’s whim. The University is the only one who can hire and fire. Courts don’t make personnel decisions.

            Other cases like this one have been taken to the courts, and courts have thrown these cases out. Now, you can argue all you want. This is the way things worked for her, and this is the way things will work for others.
            Apparently, there is no getting through to you. The court decision should make it perfectly obvious that everyone rejected her assertion that a check mark qualified as A work.

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            Your information is false as outlined in court documents.

          • RWH

            If the information is so false, show me the proof. I looked at the document filed by the woman in December, and I looked at the formal court response to that document. So, I challenge you to put your money where your mouth is–or admit that you prefer to libel people rather than doing your own fact checking

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            The documents appear online. Anyone can check them to verify that what I’ve said is true.

          • RWH

            This is not an appropriate answer. I have read the court documents, and what I have is accurate. Show me where I am wrong. Otherwise, let everyone see that you are not truthful and cannot be trusted. Let them see that that you are bearing false witness in “the name of Christ.”

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            You were already given the information needed to find the 10 page court documents. Why are you calling me names and falsely accusing me for showing you proof?

          • RWH

            You have two choices. One: Either show me from the documents with concrete proof that shows that I am wrong. In other words, you need to provide exact quotes from the document that contradict what I have said. Two: Apologize for bearing false witness. Those are your two choices. If you state again that I should look at the documents, I will (and everyone else should) consider this an admission that you are a liar and cannot be trusted.

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            Come now. Why be here if you don’t want honest discussion? The court documents are available online (10 pages) and I’ve been copying information from them. You would know that if you actually looked at them instead of making up stories about the syllabus and textbooks.

          • RWH

            Unfortunately, you have lived up to my every expectation of you. You have copied nothing. Inasmuch as you cannot provide solid documentation through quotations from the court documents and other information on the web that I am wrong on things, this is an admission that you are a liar and are not to be trusted.

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            I’ve already cited court documents and shown you how to find them. Look them up. You are falsely calling me a liar because you were called out on fabricating the course description and school’s grading system.

          • Rev Donald Spitz

            because that’s what sodomite democrats do

    • Bob Johnson

      College courses are not about “fair and balanced.” When I had a course about Karl Marx no mention of Fredrick Hayek was made. Does Condoleezza Rice teach a balanced class at Stanford? Did Henry Kissinger teach balanced classes at Georgetown University? You don’t take classes for balance, instead to explore the thinking of different minds

      • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

        Diversity needn’t mean unfair and unbalanced. I have to say that, for the most part, I got a fair and balanced education and I’m thankful for it. It wasn’t perfect, but it was still excellent.

  • Honesty Counts

    Where is the equality and tolerance when it comes to Christian students in the classroom?
    I’ll tell you, nowhere!
    Christians need to pound on the doors of Congress until liberal indoctrination and intolerance is removed from all schools and colleges. Take away their State and Federal funding until they can be impartial.

    • Grace Kim Kwon

      USA needs to make Christian schools free. Liberals produce innocent victims and make co-existance impossible.

      • Worf

        Unfortunately for you (and fortunately for the tax payers), the constitution says government money can not go to funding religious schools.

        Everson v. Board of Education (1947), the U.S. Supreme Court decided the following.
        “The establishment of religion clause means at least this: Neither a state nor the federal government may set up a church. Neither can pass laws that aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion… . >>> Neither a state or the federal government may, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. <<< In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect ‘a wall of separation between church and state.’”

        • Grace Kim Kwon

          America does only evils if the nation is not Christian. Man cannot be separated from his conscience. A man separated from his conscience only does evil.

          • Johndoe

            Nonsense

          • Nick Bush

            You don’t have to be Christian to have a conscience.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            All other kinds of conscience have defects. Serious defects. Non-christians do not cherish human life.

          • Nick Bush

            And you apparently don’t cherish non-Christian life.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Christians are the only humans who truly cherish every life by doctrines and teachings. You Americans don’t know the real world on Planet Earth, the outside world of the Christendom’s civilized safety, because you always had Christianity since the start. Liberals massacre the unborn children in wombs.

    • Colin Rafferty

      The equality and tolerance was shown when the students looked at the syllabus. In the complaint, she says the teacher “chose five poetry textbooks … which focuses on lesbians, illicit sexual relationships, incest and frequent swearing”.

      Any student who was offended by this should not be taking the course, and if they had accidentally signed up, would know immediately this was not the right course for them, given the reading material.

    • PilgrimGirl

      That isn’t our mission.

    • VETCON

      Christians need to make a serious attempt at taking back school boards, local PTA’s, and City council’s.

      • Ambulance Chaser

        What does that have to do with this story?

        • VETCON

          Everything.

          • Colin Rafferty

            This is a college. What local PTA is going to be able to do anything about it?

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Or a city council, or a school board…

          • Parodyx

            These are good posts to cite whenever Amos or one of his ilk asks why we are “trolling a Christian board”. The WTF factor is just too high not to ask questions.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Haha 🙂

          • VETCON

            The problem starts at primary schools in case you haven’t noticed. You are aware of the filth that’s being taught in our elementary, junior high, and high schools, are you not?

          • Colin Rafferty

            Ok, so this does have nothing to do with the article.

          • VETCON

            Apparently in your world it has nothing to do with it.

          • Colin Rafferty

            This article is about a student suing a university because she took a class she didn’t like. It’s not about the choice of courses that pre-college schools teach.

            Though now that I think about it more, is the issue that you don’t think these kinds of courses should be taught in college at all? Is that what bugs you?

          • VETCON

            It has everything to do with the course material. 30 years ago college students did not have to worry about being offended by such filfth. There was a time in this country where College was a place of Higher Learning not to promote filth and degenerate lifestyles.

          • Colin Rafferty

            Thanks for clearing that up. You don’t think anyone should be allowed to learn that material. Not just that people shouldn’t accidentally be exposed to it, but the courses shouldn’t exist in the first place, because people should never be reading those books. In College.

            Should students be allowed to read these kinds of books on their own instead? Would that be okay with you? Or should we just burn all the books like this?

          • RWH

            I don’t know what schools you attended, but colleges and universities in the late 60s and early 70s were very politicized with the Vietnam War going on. There were lots of demonstrations and sit-ins, and the war was the topic in many classes. Remember Kent State in the spring of 1970?

          • VETCON

            I remember Kent State very well. I also remember how liberals started injecting studies that really had nothing to do with higher learning. I also remember Gloria Steinman and her ilk and what they did to undermine the traditional family.

          • Chris

            Since you are such an expert on what should and should not constitute a degree how many do you hold?

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            And look how that turned out.

          • Sisyphus

            The school in question is a state of Wisconsin university, so your claim makes 0 sense.

      • Worf

        McCollum v. Board of Education (1948) – Supreme Court of the United States:

        “… To hold that a state cannot, consistently with the First and Fourteenth Amendments, utilize its public school system to aid any or all religious faiths or sects in the dissemination of their doctrines and ideals does not … manifest a governmental hostility to religion or religious teachings. … For the First Amendment rests upon the premise that both religion and government can best work to achieve their lofty aims if each is left free from the other within its respective sphere.”

        You have your private religious schools to teach christian dogma. Private schools, as part of the government, are constitutionally required to remain religiously neutral.

        • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

          You clearly have no idea of the history of Harvard, Princeton, Yale, etc.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            I don’t see how anything Worf posted indicates how much he knows about the history of Harvard, Princeton, or Yale.

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            You also don’t understand why the history of those institutes of learning are significant.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            No, I don’t. I might even go so far as to say it’s not relevant.

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            Perhaps because you’ve jumped into a conversation and failed to follow it.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            The conversation is about what public schools are constitutionally permitted to teach. You responded by bringing up the history of private colleges, two subjects, history and private schools, which have nothing to do with this discussion.

          • http://bigleaguepolitics.com/ ScorchedEarth

            I spoke about the history of specific schools, a topic that is very relevant to today’s topic. Just about every university and college began as a Christian institution. That’s an historical fact.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Yes they did. So what?

  • VETCON

    About 12 years ago when I started my master’s program, the course facilitator had chosen a book in business that made numerous references to discrimination based on sexual orientation. When I inquired as to the choice of the book and was there some type of agenda being driven during this course all I got was the sound of crickets. I never imagined that 12 years later we would be living in a country that has more or less codified same-sex marriage.

    We are living in some very sad precarious times.

    • Michael C

      You had to take a business course that discussed common business practices and laws applicable to businesses?

      You should’ve sued the school. The nerve they had.

  • https://smultronstalletoutsidethecamp.wordpress.com Smultronstället

    Tcha, that’s modern educayshun for you. Even grammar and math books are full of that filth now; they even teach grammar and math with examples about two sodomites calculating the prize for their “wedding”, or how you have to use the past perfect progressive to describe how long they had been living together before they “married” etc.

    • Grace Kim Kwon

      So sad. That’s the act of norminalization of evil in Sodom.

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    America needs free Christian education. Liberals make co-existence with morality impossible.

  • Oboehner

    Shocker, it was at this same institution that a homosexual male professor was busted secretly filming young boys changing in the YMCA locker room.

    • Lorne Zwelk

      That man was not a homosexual.

      • Oboehner

        So if a male gets off on other males, he’s not a homosexual? How does that work?

        • Enrico Yourfault

          Your mistake is comparing adult attractions to attractions to children. If you’re attracted to the same sex with adults, it doesn’t mean that if you’re a pedophile you likewise gravitate to males. This is why the bulk of men who molest boys are married straight men, often with children.

    • Malleus

      There is a reason so many of them become teachers. The mainstream media will never run a story on the hundreds of pedophile teachers, but the stories of their arrests still make the local news. It happens all the time, but at the national level they prefer to ignore it.

  • Robert

    GO to a Christian college that does not allow sodomites or their agendas.

    • Chris

      Who would people have an agenda about anal sex? You do realse that’s what sodomy means, right? It can apply to heterosexual couples as well as homosexual ones. I think you’re going to have to find another term to insult people with.

  • Robert

    This is what you should expect when you choose non Christian colleges to go to. Most denominations have their own christian colleges . Such as immanuel lutheran grade school high school college and seminary in eau Claire Wisconsin on Grover rd .or Wisconsin Lutheran College . In Milwaukee.. your own denomination should have some also.

    • Chris

      The student was attending a university NOT a high school.

  • Rev Donald Spitz

    I pray the Lord gives Donna Kikkert victory over this sexual deviant ‘teacher’.

  • Dianne

    This lawsuit is valid and NO TEACHER should expose her body parts like breast or use profanity. This is a malicious and vindictive teacher. She should be removed since her obvious decision to fail the student was based on her personal bias towards the student. This is discrimination gone wild in this University. This is truly a time to pray without ceasing! Arise Christian soldier and Pray like never before against the wiles of the devil. Ephesians 6:10-18