Atheist Activist Group Takes Issue With Alabama Police Department’s Mix of God With Government

Photo Credit: Wetumpka Police Department/Facebook

WETUMPKA, Ala. — A prominent professing atheist group recently sent a letter to officials with a city in Alabama to assert that its police department’s mixture of God with government is unlawful.

The Wisconsin-based Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF) wrote to the City of Wetumpka on June 7 after learning that its police department hosts a summer community program at its facility that includes daily devotionals, and offers a monthly dinner with area churches known as “People Extending Christian Kindness.” The dinner is mentioned on the department’s Facebook page, which includes text thanking God or citing Scripture.

Some officers also host Bible studies with children on the streets.

FFRF contended in its correspondence that the police department is not being neutral toward religion by hosting the events and writing about them on Facebook, and that its involvement in Christian activities makes non-Christian residents feel like “outsiders.”

“The police department’s proselytizing and the endorsement of this proselytizing through the official Facebook pages of the city and the department violate the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment by favoring a specific religion over others,” the group wrote.

“[C]itizens should not be made to feel excluded or like political outsiders because the local government they support with their taxes oversteps its power by proselytizing and promoting religious events through official government channels,” it stated.

FFRF asked that all such events be discontinued and that any Facebook posts of a religious nature be deleted.

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“We ask that all events sponsored by the city or the department discontinue including devotionals or other religious elements, and that the department cease official participation in religious events like the “People Extending Christian Kindness” dinners,” the organization wrote.

Wetumpka Police Chief Danny Billingsley declined to comment when contacted by the Wetumpka Herald about the matter.

As previously reported, in a recent dissenting opinion in a New Mexico Ten Commandments case, 10th Circuit Court of Appeals Judges Paul Kelly, Jr. and Chief Judge Timothy Tymkovich noted that the Establishment Clause is being interpreted incorrectly and not in “the historical understanding of an ‘establishment of religion,’ and thus with what the First Amendment actually prohibits.”

They explained that “[e]stablishment was … the norm in the American Colonies. Exclusive Anglican establishments reigned in the southern states, whereas localized Puritan establishments were the norm in New England, except in Rhode Island.”

This began in Europe, “the continent of origin for most American colonists,” Kelly outlined. “[E]ach country had long established its own state church—a generalized version of cuius regio, eius religio—over which each government exercised varying degrees of control. Germany and Scandinavia had official Lutheran establishments; Holland, a Reformed state church; France, the Gallican Catholic Church; Ireland, the Church of Ireland; Scotland, the Church of Scotland; and so on.”

Therefore, the Establishment Clause of the U.S. Constitution regarding “respecting an establishment” only referred to showing favoritism to one state establishment over another, and solely applied to the federal government.

“From the words of the text, though, two conclusions are relatively clear: first, the provision originally limited the federal government and not the states, many of which continued to support established churches; and second, the limitation respected only an actual ‘establishment of religion,’” the federal judges outlined.


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  • Grace Kim Kwon

    US police should not bow to Western atheists’ monoploy in the society. Man should not be controlled by atheism because atheism belittles human life. Atheists should not order around people including the government bodies. It’s the atheists who are unreasonable; they are like kids who claim they have come to exist without their parents. Police officers need Christianity to value and protect everyone’s life. Christianity is the only religion on earth to value everyone’s life equally.

    • Dan R Francis

      “WAAAH! I’m SPECIAL because of my fairy tale!”
      No, Cupcake. You’re not. You have to follow the real law of the land like everyone else.
      Don’t like? Get the fuck out.

      • Jason Todd

        1) You need to watch your language.

        2) The real law of the land allows freedom of religion and freedom of speech. If you actually read the Constitution you’d know this.

    • The Former Christian

      You could move to Saudi Arabia if you hate religious freedom so much.

      • Malleus

        Flagged. That kind of abuse is uncalled for. Take your hate somewhere else, fella.

        • bfw314159

          So you’re OK with Grace Kim Kwon writing “atheism belittles human life” and “the evil of atheism”, and that isn’t hate?

          • Ambulance Chaser

            And pretty much everything Jason Todd posts…

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You guys should stop bullying the Christians in a Christian website. Why do you guys always only bully the Christians in the land? Leave American Christians alone.

          • zampogna

            Bullying is always wrong, Grace. Even when it comes from Christians.

          • Grace Kwon

            Christians don’t bully anyone in America. Atheists and secularists and the liberals and the LGBT & their supporters bully the Christians in the USA today.

          • zampogna

            Christians bully plenty, especially homosexuals and atheists.

          • Grace Kwon

            You are wrong. Christians teach the homosexuals and atheists God’s truth only in order to save them. Americans hate Christians because American culture has become too immoral. Immoral people hate the Christians and take the truth wrongly. Morality should be added to human rights in order to protect mankind from the West’s tyrannical decadence.

          • zampogna

            Homosexuals and atheists have the right to make up their own minds about what is true, and that includes disagreeing with Christians who give them offensive and dubious information.

          • Grace Kwon

            Homosexuals and atheists demand their harmful falsehood on everyone while corrupting children to the core. They need to hear the Christians’ life-saving condemnations to the end. Romans 1. Some may repent and get saved. Freedom is for proclamation of God’s truth, not appeasing the Western pervs or perv atheists.

          • zampogna

            Christians corrupt children to the core with hateful beliefs.

          • Grace Kwon

            No, Judeo-Christian beliefs alone are pure and true and moral and build up children. The only perfectly good religion on earth. Western culture hates Christianity this century because the West got too immoral from having everything for the longest time and being bored. Rich bored people almost always seek warped decadence. Truth does not change. It is a shame for any human being to submit to perv Western culture because it corrupts children.

          • zampogna

            You speak in very broad and strange generalizations. I know no “pervs” at all, have no problem with Western Culture (at least as broadly as you have defined it) and see no evidence of children being corrupted.

          • Grace Kwon

            The news in this site are even the evidences. The West needs Judeo-Christian values because they have no other morality. There is no salvation apart from Christianity anyway.

          • MamaBearly

            I appreciate your viewpoint, because I agree that a lot of Christians do have a sinful approach to a lot of things. That being said, I believe you should have said Some Christians, as not all Christians corrupt children.
            Christianity is supposed to be about God, but also about love. If a Christian corrupts children with hateful beliefs, they are not being a true Christian.
            I do find a lot of ‘christians’ do not follow Jesus who told us to love everyone and to treat everyone well. Even sinners are supposed to be treated well as far as Christ is concerned. They need to be told about their sin, and about salvation and repentance, but the hate is supposed to be about the sin, not the person who sins. Unfortunately, too many can not understand that concept and are hateful to others, who they believe are sinners.
            If a Christian teaches the gospel to the children, there are no hateful beliefs. The Gospel is about loving each other and not sinning against each other.
            My church teaches love, not “hateful beliefs” so not all Christians do what you said.
            Blessings!

          • zampogna

            I did of course mean SOME Christians. Very sorry.

          • MamaBearly

            That’s OK, I understand completely. I just like to stand up for the Christians that are NOT like that.
            Blessings!

          • Grace Kwon

            You need to repent of your sin to get saved from the consequences of your sin. Read Psalm 14. Romans 1. John 3.

          • zampogna

            I happen to not believe you.

          • Grace Kwon

            Truth-telling is the form of true love. Homosexual depravity is disgusting to most humans, not just to Christians. Christians alone protect everyone. Others abuse each other at their will without any principles. Atheism kills and it needs to be stopped.

          • zampogna

            No, it is only disgusting to fundamentalist Christians. Everyone must stay vigilant sharing their hate.

          • Grace Kwon

            If it is disgusting to fundamental Christians, it is disgusting to every moral person. Leviticus ch. 18-20. The West should stop trying to enslave mankind with homosexuality. Enough of atrocities by the nudist rich perv West. Westerners should have a sense of shame about their culture’s abnormal depravity. Western culture needs a fix by the Christian Church as all others did.

          • zampogna

            No one is enslaving mankind with homosexuality. Those who are homosexual will always BE homosexual – are you suggesting exterminating them? They cannot change. NO ONE can.

            As for nudism and abnormal depravity, I’m sure I have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.

          • Grace Kwon

            The homosexuals need the Word of God so that they will repent of their homosexuality and obtain a new life. God can change them if they repent. John 10. The West’s homosexual culture spreads depravity. It needs to get fixed by the Christian Church or they oppress mankind with the forced immorali culture.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            It’s not hate but facts. I don’t hate atheists. I forgive them and pray for them because I’m Christian. Telling the truth is a form of love.

          • bfw314159

            No, it’s hate.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Atheists hate the Christians. Americans must stop oppressing the Christians in the land; Christians are the only good people in America. You guys have been spoiled by the unconditional utmost niceness of Christians. I can tell because I’m a foreigner to the beloved USA.

          • bfw314159

            Atheists hate the Christians.

            You ought to stop lying about atheists.

            Americans must stop oppressing the Christians in the land

            Like what? Specific examples, please.

            Christians are the only good people in America.

            Wrong.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Americans are ignorant of atheists’ regime. American atheists are actually hedonists. American atheists blaspheme to make Christians suffer and prohibit the public view of the Cross and the Bible verses, like in this news. Leave the police officers alone in doing good. Christians created and nurtured and raised America. Today’s USA is being bad to Christians like a bad playboy son.

          • bfw314159

            Keep lying about atheists and whining.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Naive Americans need truths regarding atheism. Atheists kill and destroy. You need repentance for salvation. Psalm 14 and John 10.

          • bfw314159

            Atheists kill and destroy.

            Only some, just like some Christians kill and destroy. But you just lie about atheists — and who’s the father of lies again?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are wrong. Atrheism PURPOSES to kill and destroy. The main purpose of atheism is to kill and destroy. Their abuse is not a mistake but their very essense itself. Psalm 14. John 10. Judeo-Christian teaching alone attempts to rescue everyone and anyone. A pure form of all other religions and ideologies are deadly to Non-members and to children including the unborns.

            The power-balance prevents any particular ideology to take control, but that’s not good enough. Mankind needs Christiasnity for salvation, morality, human rights, freedom, and civility. Ex-christian West is another tyranny that forces Sodomy. Americans should be able to see that reality now.

          • bfw314159

            Atrheism PURPOSES to kill and destroy.

            Nope, you’re just lying about atheists. Again.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Americans have been protected by Protestant Christianity from the start to the end they know nothing about atheism’s reign. Immigrate to North Korea as you wish.

          • bfw314159

            Sorry, I’ll stick with other countries that have or had atheist leaders, like Australia, the UK, or France.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            They have been better-off only because of their Christian legacy. Godless secular nations will go extinct from childlessness, and the land will be inherited by the foreigners. People in the future will talk about how the West got gone by the insane homosexual depravity.

          • bfw314159

            Sorry, you can’t walk back what you already said. Atheist-led democracies are doing just fine.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            No, West’s atheistic secularists enslave mankind with homosexuality and transgenderism. They are the perv slave-owners – new imperialists by depravity. No Bible = No freedom.

          • bfw314159

            You also can’t win by redefining words.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            It is reality. Secular West is trying to control mankind by infanticide and homosexual immorality and transgender falsehood. It’s familiar tactics of atheists. Americans never experienced.

          • bfw314159

            It is reality.

            No, you ridiculously tried to redefine what “enslave” means.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Nazi Germany enslaved Europe with hatred against the Jews. The English Sodom enslaves mankind with homosexuality and transgenderism. Facts. Only fools and cowards and greedy merchants submit to them. It’s ridiculous to submit to this century’s Western pervs who purpose to destroy global children by prohibition of morality. History will record today’s UK and USA and all its slave nations as greedy mental patients. Bible-literacy for sanity and freedom. Western Sodom will have to ban the Holy Bible to further their evil agenda. May God forbid such evil.

          • bfw314159

            Nazi Germany enslaved Europe with hatred against the Jews.

            That has nothing to do with the SBC being created to defend slavery. Red herring fail.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are wrong. The whites got horrified at what Nazi Germans did to the fellow humans by the name of racism. It helped the whites to start equality in the world. Christian whites always felt bad about slavery. They should get horrified at the white authority pushing Sodomy everywhere this century and do something about it. The victims are children instead of the Jews this century because current Western Sodomy spreads pedophilia.

          • bfw314159

            You are wrong.

            No, really, your red herring attempt failed. It has nothing to do with the SBC supporting slavery.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            But in fact SBC freed slaves everywhere on Earth. You just hate the Baptists wrongly. SBC is better than USA today anyway; today’s USA is trying to enslave mankind with homosexuality. Cotton picking is a noble labor comparing to letting kids indoctrinated by the Western pervs.

          • bfw314159

            Again, you’re dishonestly trying to redefine “slavery” and defending the SBC for defending slavery.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Because I know SBC personally. They are the greatest people on Earth. They set up hospitals and schools and orphanages and freed slaves in Asia. Elsewhere, too. You don’t know them. SBC must have made even their slaves happy. Free education and good food and good music, all of which are inconceivable in the native land. Christian education is the key for true freedom for mankind.

          • bfw314159

            Because I know SBC personally.

            I doubt many members of the SBC today support slavery, but when the SBC was founded in 1845 they did. Once again, your dishonesty is showing.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            In that era, slavery was natural to most humans on earth. It’s Bible-reading white Christians and those who were educated by them that complained against slavery and freed slaves. You single out SBC because you hate the Christians. In fact, the descendants of slaves love SBC. It’s stupid of mankind to submit to West’s pansexual pervs today after all the good accomplishments of American Christians.

          • bfw314159

            White Christians weren’t the only ones against slavery. Plenty of slaves and ex-slaves were.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Illiterate men were powerless. Illiteracy is inability. White Christians taught the slaves how to read and write, and the slaves were able to break free. Peoples of colors didn’t even know about human rights whether the masters were white men or their own men. If you see any nations of colored peoples using Latin alphabets for their mother languages, those are the nations which white Christians created letters for their languages, not just schools and hospitals and orphanages.

          • bfw314159

            Look up Trump’s good friend Frederick Douglass, who has done an amazing job and is being recognized more and more.

          • Grace Kwon

            Ya, a black Christian former-slave freed by the white Christians’ education. I’m going to read Booker T. Washington this summer. People of colors willfully converted to Christianity because the English Christians were superb good, and the Gospel message is incomparably vital and good and true.

          • bfw314159

            Ya, a black Christian former-slave freed by the white Christians’ education.

            Now you’re making up false “facts” about Douglass:
            When Douglass was about twelve, Hugh Auld’s wife Sophia started teaching him the alphabet. Douglass described her as a kind and tender-hearted woman, who treated him “as she supposed one human being ought to treat another”.[19] Hugh Auld disapproved of the tuition, feeling that literacy would encourage slaves to desire freedom; Douglass later referred to this as the “first decidedly antislavery lecture” he had ever heard.[20] Under her husband’s influence, Sophia came to believe that education and slavery were incompatible and one day snatched a newspaper away from Douglass.[21] In his autobiography, Douglass related how he learned to read from white children in the neighborhood, and by observing the writings of the men with whom he worked.[22]

            Douglass continued, secretly, to teach himself how to read and write. He later often said, “knowledge is the pathway from slavery to freedom.”[23] As Douglass began to read newspapers, pamphlets, political materials, and books of every description, this new realm of thought led him to question and condemn the institution of slavery.

          • Grace Kwon

            Frederick Douglass read the Holy Bible and realized everyman was born-free by the Creator God. White Christians have helped him throughout his life. If it was not in the Western Christendom, he would have been just erased off in the pagan darkness leaving no name. Christian whites understood what he claimed and did what is right.

          • bfw314159

            So, no comment on your lies?

          • Grace Kwon

            What went wrong with you Americans this century? Why do you attack Christianity, the ONLY good thing in your entire civilization? Fear God. Honor your father and your mother. Proverbs 1. Exodus 20. You Americans know nothing about atheists’ brutality because you never suffered anything, being protected by the nicest Christian churches all the time everyhere since the very beginning. Stop repaying the good with evil. The land belongs to God. Americans have nothing apart from God.

        • zampogna

          Comment’s still there. That was a big fail for you, wasn’t it?

      • Jason Todd

        Okay. Full stop. “Religious freedom?”

        What religious freedom is there if practicing is absolutely restricted? You want it confined to our homes (“Keep your fairytales in your homes.” Your words.).

        And it’s funny you have previously mentioned Russia. From 1917 to 1990, their government both openly hated and promoted the torture and killing of its own citizens simply for believing in God.

        Let’s get one thing straight: Your bigoted anti-Christian vision of the United States of America does not in any way, shape or form match the ideals of the men who created this country and fought to keep it.

        No, it’s not us you should move. It’s you. I hear China and Cuba are still in line with your hateful, evil principles. Pick one.

        • Grace Kim Kwon

          So true. America has been one happy, prosperous state because it was under the dominion of the excellent Protestant Christianity. Elsewhere, people suffered brutal injustices because of lack of Christianity. No Christianity = No human rights or freedom.

        • TheKingOfRhye

          “What religious freedom is there if practicing is absolutely restricted?”

          It’s not “absolutely restricted”. What is restricted (and should be, in my opinion) is when someone acting in a government capacity appears to endorse one religion over others, or over no religion. You talk about people wanting “it confined to our homes”, but it’s not. (and I wouldn’t go that far myself) Like I said to someone else a little while ago, I almost couldn’t spit without it hitting a Christian church in my neck of the woods. (not that I go around trying to spit on churches…lol) You referred to communist atheist states, now THAT’s what “absolutely restricted” means. Trust me, I’m no more in favor of that than you are. There’s a BIG difference between a secular state and an atheist one.

          “Your bigoted anti-Christian vision of the United States of America does
          not in any way, shape or form match the ideals of the men who created
          this country and fought to keep it.”

          Oh, now you’re just making this TOO easy…

          “I am for freedom of religion, & against all maneuvres to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect over another.” – Thomas Jefferson

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        Christianity alone grants human rights and freedom to all. All other religions and ideologies oppress humanity with falsehood. Western secularism forces Sodomy upon mankind. Western pervs are trying to bend mankind with homosexual depravity this century. No submission to Western pervs.

      • Bezukhov

        By people with guns on their hips, no less.

  • Status Cymbals

    Oh dear dear, are the Fanatical Foes of Religious Freedom swooning again? Get out the smelling salts.

    Underneath their furrowed old maid brows are a bunch of Inquisitors who wish they could do something much more serious than just sue.

    • bfw314159

      Underneath their furrowed old maid brows are a bunch of Inquisitors who wish they could do something much more serious than just sue.

      If only you belonged to a religion that said lying about other people was wrong…

      • Oboehner

        EVERYONE has religious beliefs.

        • bfw314159

          Did you have a point?

          • Oboehner

            Yes, here it is: EVERYONE has religious beliefs. Especially religiously zealous atheists.

          • bfw314159

            What’s that got to do with Status Cymbals lying about atheists?

          • Chris Clayton

            That is like saying everyone is a sports fan, including those that have absolutely no interest in sports.

          • Oboehner

            Not in the same ballpark – so to speak. Everyone has a belief as to the origins of everything around them (which has a direct affect on their lives, sports do not).

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “Everyone has a belief as to the origins of everything around them”

            What about agnostics, people who think such things either aren’t and/or cannot be known? How is that a belief, much less a religion?

          • Oboehner

            Everyone.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            What about agnostics?

            (If you’re just going to repeat yourself, I guess I’ll do the same.)

          • Oboehner

            They have a belief as to how they got here, or do they just float around being ignorant watching SpongeBob?

          • TheKingOfRhye

            What do you think that belief is? You do know what “agnostic” means, right? I thought I’d explained this a few times before, but I guess I have to one more time….I’m an agnostic AND an atheist. I don’t believe in any gods, but I don’t pretend to have all the answers as to the origins of everything. I mean, yeah, I can say the Big Bang happened, but that still leaves one with the question of what caused that, if anything did. I’m just fine with leaving that question unanswered, because I don’t think it’s something that I CAN know. I wouldn’t consider that “floating around being ignorant.” (and I don’t watch SpongeBob either)

          • Oboehner

            Agnostics BELIEVE that the existence of God is unknown/unknowable.

            “I can say the Big Bang happened” There is that religious belief I was talking about.

          • MarkSebree

            However, that is not a religious belief. That is a scientific theory in the field of cosmology. It is currently the best explanation which fits the known data. When a better theory is developed which explains the data better, including data which has been discovered since it was proposed, then the Big Bang Theory will be dropped and the new theory will be used instead for modeling and predictions of the direction in which new data is likely to be found.

            There is nothing supernatural about it, and there is nothing that is asked to be taken on “faith”. It does not fit the definition of a “religion” in any way, shape, or form.

          • Oboehner

            Based on assumption with any “evidence” shoved through an evolutionism filter. Evolutionism is a religious belief, there is NO proof.

          • MarkSebree

            There is no “evolution filter”, and there is no assumption in place except in your imagination. There is, however, literally mountains of evidence to support evolution, both micro-evolution and macro-evolution.

            We are not talking about what they call “evolution” in shows like Poke-mon or Digimon. That is not evolution, that is metamorphosis, not to mention that the shows are fiction. Evolution moves at generational speeds, and it takes many generations for speciation to occur.

            You have not shown where or why evolution is supposedly a “religious belief”. It does not fit any definition that I know of in any reputable dictionary.

            And I noticed that you changed which field of science you are talking about. You cannot even keep your argument using the same examples, just as you cannot support your claims.

          • Oboehner

            “There is, however, literally mountains of evidence to support evolution” There is evidence that could point to any number of things including Creation. Saying it only supports evolutionism (which has no proof) is shoving it all through the filter of religious belief in evolutionism.
            Micro “evolution” – simple adaptation, nothing more. Macro evolution – religious belief, nothing more.
            “Religion: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith” Merriam/Webster, but I suppose that’s not a “reputable dictionary”.

            “And I noticed that you changed which field of science you are talking about” Pick one, none has ANY proof for evolutionism.

            “just as you cannot support your claims.” Back atcha.

          • zampogna

            “Religion: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith”

            Which atheism isn’t. It’s not held to with ardor or faith, it’s a lack of belief due to a lack of evidence. Like most things in life we don’t believe in. Your dictionary isn’t helping you, it’s hurting your position.

          • Oboehner

            Sure, and all deist religion simply have a lack of belief there isn’t a god due to lack of evidence.

          • zampogna

            You’ve got a lack followed by an isn’t followed by another lack. That is some convoluted logic gymnastics you have going on there. Some might even say “weaselling”.

          • Oboehner

            Back atcha.

          • zampogna

            No, I don’t think so. I’m not trying to buffalo anybody with three triple negatives. That’s all on you.

          • Oboehner

            You’re just trying to buffalo someone that people who just have neutral beliefs somehow have an activist group. BS by any other name…

          • zampogna

            I don’t believe in unicorns, but I don’t have an activist group for THAT, either. People don’t start religions based on things they don’t believe.

          • Oboehner

            “I don’t believe in unicorns, but I don’t have an activist group for THAT” Exactly, there are NO activist groups fighting the placement of unicorn paraphernalia in public places, thanks for making my point.

          • zampogna

            Twist away, little man.
            When you spot some unicorn paraphernalia, you be sure to let Fox News know, now. In the meantime atheists and people of faith alike will continue to keep public property free of religious structures.

          • Oboehner

            Twist away? LOL, nice try. Atheism is a religion just like any other, you even inadvertently admitted as much.

          • zampogna

            So now “activist” means “religion”?

          • Oboehner

            Activism is not a sign of neutrality, but of a firmly held belief system – a religious belief system in this case.

          • zampogna

            No, it really isn’t, and you’re going to lose this battle over and over as you have been until you embrace reality and quit fighting it.

          • Oboehner

            Your living in denial is not any indication of a loss on my part.

          • zampogna

            Denial? Are these religious monuments sticking around, or being pulled? You DO realize you are not winning these battles, right?

          • Oboehner

            Shows the hypocrisy of one religion claiming rights over another, nothing more.

          • zampogna

            Atheism is a religion just like baldness is a hair color.

          • Oboehner

            Baldness is a scalp condition like atheism is a religion.

          • zampogna

            Yes, bald men suffer from male pattern scalp condition. One of your analogies is bound not to fall on its face if you keep trying.

          • Oboehner

            The hair color analogy is blocking the fall as it face-planted the moment it hit cyberspace.

          • zampogna

            Atheism is the absence of religion. I know what you’re attempting, to turn all rational and scientific beliefs into matters of faith. And they aren’t. And even if they were, they at least attempt to make attempts to understand by studying and not just saying Goddidit. As you are clearly doing but lack the honesty to admit.

          • Oboehner

            Yeah right, the “we really don’t care one way or the other” activist group, LOL

            I know what you’re attempting, to turn matters of faith into scientific beliefs . And they aren’t. At least attempt to understand by studying and not just saying anexplodingdotdidit. As you are clearly doing but lack the honesty to admit.

          • zampogna

            These ARE scientific beliefs, and you’re trying to level the playing field by putting them on the same level as your ancient holy book. They couldn’t be more different. Your holy book gets absolutely no scrutiny whatsoever and just demands you believe it. That’s you. Science tests and re-tests and examines and studies over and over. That’s my group. And I’m proud to be part of it.

          • Oboehner

            My “Holy Book” is an admitted matter of faith, it is not taught at taxpayer expense in government schools. Science can “test and re-test” all they want, if the belief and the flawed system they use never changes… You can be proud of whatever you like, that doesn’t make it science, or even one bit true – you have only blind faith.

          • zampogna

            Your problem is that when it DOES test something successfully and you don’t like the results, you shoot the messenger.

          • Oboehner

            Shoot the messenger? No, just the BS.

          • zampogna

            If you are shown concrete evidence of something and continue to disbelieve it because Jesus, there’s not much that can be done for you.

          • Oboehner

            What I believe or don’t is irrelevant, only a tool used by those who have zero substance and wish to misdirect. Nice dodge with the copout twist though.

          • zampogna

            What am I supposedly dodging? Isn’t it you doing that? Trying to make those who accept science look like followers of blind faith?

          • Oboehner

            They do just fine all by themselves with question dodges, bringing up other topics, appeal to authority BS, ad hominem attacks, etc.

          • zampogna

            You can call consultation of facts “appeal to authority” all you want, and in fact it seems like you are determined to do so. Guess what? You are in a fraction of the smallest minority there is, no one cares, and no one’s going to listen to you. You have two options – accept facts, or continue to live with your head in the sand. I know PERFECTLY well which option you’re going to choose.

          • Oboehner

            Too bad you haven’t consulted any “facts”. None to accept, nothing and more nothing is all that’s left to accept other than appeal to authority.
            You have your blind religious faith, so you can “accept” whatever you choose to believe, don’t waste my time blathering on about facts you cannot produce.

          • zampogna

            Your issue isn’t with me. It’s with universities, school boards, scientists, museums, and oh hell, let’s just say anyone with a pulse.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “Yeah right, the “we really don’t care one way or the other” activist group, LOL”

            That would be apatheism, not atheism. If you’re going to talk about atheism, at least know what it is.

          • Oboehner

            Congratulations, you actually almost hit on something, that would be apatheism, not atheism. If you’re going to talk about atheism, at least know what it is – a religious belief.

            God is a religious tenet, therefore a belief regarding that is a RELIGIOUS one. There are other religious aspects, as well.

            The “we really don’t care one way or the other” activist group is a joke.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            If God is a religious tenet, then how is a lack of belief in any god (which is all atheism is. It’s literally what atheism MEANS. Theism is believing in a god. The prefix “a-” means without. Without belief.) a religious one?

            By what you’re saying, a child who hasn’t even heard of the concept of a god yet has a religion.

          • Oboehner

            There we go again with the “we really don’t care one way or the other” activist group.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            What are the “other religious aspects” of atheism, by the way? (this oughta be good…)

          • Oboehner

            Try the zeal with which they fight to remove something they simply don’t believe in – or whatever…

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Congratulations, you actually almost hit on something there but you probably didn’t realize it. You had to “correct” Zampogna’s analogy, because baldness is clearly not a hair color, it’s a “scalp condition”. Bingo. Atheism isn’t a religion…..BUT it’s a “belief condition”, I guess you could call it. The description of one’s lack of belief in a god.

          • Oboehner

            My analogy stands, baldness is a scalp condition and atheism is a religious belief. Denying that fact only makes one look continually more foolish.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Well, you don’t even understand atheism in the first place, so I guess I should expect you to understand what that analogy was faulty.

          • zampogna

            He is determined to make anything he doesn’t understand a “religion” to level the playing field, because religion, blind faith, appeals to authority and all the other phrases he constantly parrots are all that he has. It’s a very deceptive Christian who attacks his opponent while remaining completely silent about his own beliefs.

          • Oboehner

            Apparently the so-called atheists don’t understand atheism.

            “what that analogy was faulty” – is faulty.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “Agnostics BELIEVE that the existence of God is unknown/unknowable.”

            Then, how is that, in any way, a “belief as to how they got here”? At the very least, you’re stretching the definition of the word “religious”, if, as it seems you’re saying, ANY sort of belief is a religious one.

          • Oboehner

            Show me one person who doesn’t have some belief or another about how they got here.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            If someone doesn’t know, or thinks they can’t know, then HOW is that a religious belief?

            Also, believing the Big Bang theory is not a religious belief, it’s not even a belief on how the universe began, like a lot of people think it is.

            “A common misconception is that the big bang provides a theory of cosmic origins. It doesn’t. The big bang is a theory … that delineates cosmic evolution from a split second after whatever happened to bring the universe into existence, but it says nothing at all about time zero itself. And since, according to the big bang theory, the bang is what is
            supposed to have happened at the beginning, the big bang leaves out the bang. It tells us nothing about what banged, why it banged, how it
            banged, or, frankly, whether it really banged at all.” – Brian Green, The Fabric Of The Universe

          • Oboehner

            It is a belief they can’t know, still a belief held to with ardor and faith.

            “like a lot of people think it is.” Correction, a lot of people BELIEVE it is.

            “…after whatever happened to bring the universe into existence” A religious belief, “It tells us nothing about what banged, why it banged, how it banged, or, frankly, whether it really banged at all.”

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “”like a lot of people think it is.” Correction, a lot of people BELIEVE it is”

            OK, fine, they BELIEVE, incorrectly, that the Big Bang describes the origin of the universe. Are you now trying to tell me that just knowing what the Big Bang Theory actually means, whether you believe it or not, is a “religious belief”? That’s really stretching it now.

          • Oboehner

            You’re narrowing it down too far, whether you believe the “big bang” or not, you still have some kind of belief as to what happened that falls into: “a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith”.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            No, you were “narrowing it down too far” when you “corrected” me about the popular misconception of the Big Bang theory being a “belief”. But anyway…

            “a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith”

            OK, that is about the loosest definition of religion possible. Take out the word “faith” and I might even agree that everyone has something that would fit that description. (depending on how you define “faith”, of course, but that’s probably a whole other discussion in itself) That is closer to what I would call a philosophy, which, yes, everyone has to have, otherwise you’re just randomly acting on the whim of the moment, I suppose. And that can come from religious beliefs, or otherwise.

            I thank you for that choice of words, though, because I remember you were claiming atheism to be a religion not too long ago. The problem with that is, atheism doesn’t really fit those criteria. Is it a cause? It can be, I guess, but then again so can just about ANYTHING. Is it a principle? Again, about anything can be a principle. One thing atheism is assuredly NOT, though, is a “system of beliefs.” It’s a position – call it a belief if you insist – on ONE issue: the existence of a god. That’s it. Atheists have a diverging variety of views on other issues, and they don’t all follow from not believing in a god.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            No, you were “narrowing it down too far” by “correcting” me that the popular misconception of the Big Bang theory is a “belief”, but anyway…

            “a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith”

            Is that really your definition of “religion”? It’s about the broadest one possible, for one thing. It would be more accurate to call that a philosophy, (perhaps if you take out the word “faith”) and then I’d even agree with you that everyone has one of those. You claimed earlier that “atheism is most assuredly a religion”, I think that was the way you put it. The problem is, atheism doesn’t even fit those criteria. Is it a cause? It can be, I guess, but then can’t anything be a cause? Same with a “principle” as well. Atheism certainly is not a “system of beliefs”, though, because it’s just describes a position on ONE issue – one’s belief in a god. That’s it. Atheists have widely diverging views on other issues that don’t follow from their lack of belief in a god.

          • Oboehner

            “Is that really your definition of ‘religion’?” No, Merriam/Webster.

            Since the atheist cannot prove there is or isn’t a god, it is simply a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith. They believe there is no god.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Do you even read what I’m saying? It’s not a “system of beliefs”, it’s a lack of belief in ONE THING. How is that a “system”? If atheism IS a “system of beliefs”, then what other beliefs do you think are incorporated into it? And there’s a difference between lacking belief and believing there is no god. I know I’ve explained that one to you before, maybe that’s just an exercise in futility on my part…

          • Oboehner

            Sure, and Christians have a lack of belief there is no God.
            The belief there is no god influences the daily lives of atheists, based on their religious belief, whether they can see it or not.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Again, it’s not a “belief there is no god”. I thought I’ve pretty clear on that. And “influencing the daily lives of atheists”? Why don’t you let the actual atheists say what influences their lives and how much?

          • Oboehner

            Again it is most definitely a belief there is no God, otherwise they would just be neutral on the subject and not “taking issue”.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I don’t see how that follows. Whether one believes in a god or believes there is no god and/or is completely agnostic is a separate issue from if one believes in separation of church of state. I always quote Thomas Jefferson on that issue, for example. He had unconventional beliefs, perhaps, but definitely did believe in a god.

          • Oboehner

            Separation of church and state is a myth, the Constitution merely states “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion … .”
            Quote away, it changes nothing. Like I said, simple disbelief would be a neutral viewpoint.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “Separation of church and state is a myth, the Constitution merely states
            “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion …
            .””

            We can debate that forever, but that’s not even my point. I was talking about if one believes there SHOULD BE separation of church and state, regardless of whether the Constitution says it or not, and how that is separate from whether one is an agnostic and/or atheist or whatever. Yes, disbelief could be thought of as a “neutral viewpoint” – on the existence of a god. One’s viewpoint of church vs. state is a different thing.

            I was talking about quoting Jefferson because he definitely did believe in separation of church and state, and believed that it was in the Constitution, at that.

            “I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American
            people which declared that their legislature should “make no law
            respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise
            thereof,” thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.”

            Oh, and even better, James Madison. You know, the guy that wrote the Constitution…

            “Among the features peculiar to the Political system of the United States, is the perfect equality of rights which it secures to every religious Sect”

          • Oboehner

            “We can debate that forever” There is NO debate.
            “one believes there SHOULD BE separation of church and state”
            What one believes is irrelevant to the rest of us.

            If one truly was neutral on the belief in God, there would be NO activism, they simply wouldn’t care – period.

            You need context, ever hear of the Church of England? It is the state (governmental) church of England. What Jefferson was talking about was keeping the government out of the church to avoid that situation, not the other way around. Hence the establishment clause.

            Madison’s opinion (not law) pertains to “every religious Sect” so you must be admitting that atheism is a religious belief.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “What one believes is irrelevant to the rest of us.”

            You’re the one saying if someone believes this, then they believe that, and constantly telling others what they believe, so it seems like it’s relevant to you, at least.

            “If one truly was neutral on the belief in God, there would be NO activism, they simply wouldn’t care – period.”

            You can keep saying that, but it doesn’t make it any more right. Why can’t someone be “neutral on the belief in God” and still take issue with things like in this story? Tell me that, at least.

            If you have a wall (as in a “wall of separation”) between two things, it keeps both away from the other. I’m guessing Jefferson was a smart enough man to know that when he made that statement.. Oh…it’s maybe neither here nor there, but the weird thing about England, with their ‘state church’ and all, is that they are actually a MORE non-religious country th

          • Oboehner

            Why don’t you explain then how why any sane person who claims to be neutral would be fighting as hard as these religious zealots are.
            If you have an opinion, it most likely is yours alone unless you can make believers out of others. Still irrelevant to those who do not hold that opinion – like the whole separation of church and state thing.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “Why don’t you explain then how why any sane person who claims to be
            neutral would be fighting as hard as these religious zealots are.”

            Because, you’re talking about beliefs on TWO DIFFERENT things. Belief or lack of belief in a god, and one’s position. Also, I don’t think “neutral” is quite the right word, either. At least I wouldn’t describe my views as “neutral”. I don’t claim to know there is no god, because I don’t think anyone can know one way or the other. So, I am not agnostic in the sense that am I undecided, or neutral, or uncommitted or whatever, I am agnostic in the sense that I don’t believe it is known.

            Also, I’ve personally known some people that definitely believed in a god, but just didn’t trust organized religion in general, and were pretty supportive of separation of church and state.

          • Oboehner

            A belief there IS NO GOD, followed by an attempt to invoke some mythological “separation of church and state” to eliminate the existence of any sign of those who believe there is a God.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            So, now you’re just not going to respond to what I actually said at all, but just repeat your assertions without anything whatsoever to back them up? Also, I don’t know what you’re talking about with eliminating any sign of believers. That isn’t something I have any desire to see happen, and at any rate, it won’t happen any time soon. After all, the US population is over 70% Christians, last time I looked it up. And like I’ve said before, to someone else, just in the particular area where I live, I almost couldn’t throw a rock without it landing on a church of some sort. So, I wouldn’t say we’re lacking in “signs of those who believe there is a God.”

            Seriously, though, if you’re not even going to address a single thing I say, I don’t see what the point is in having this conversation. If it’s even a conversation any more. It’s becoming more like talking to a brick wall.

          • Oboehner

            Atheists believe there is no God (religion), this story backs it up, separation of church and state is a myth, any other questions?

          • TheKingOfRhye

            No questions, just answers. No, all atheists don’t beleive that, and no, the story doesn’t back it up, because you’re talking about two different things. Remember, the are some THEISTS who believe in separation of church and state….that pretty much makes your argument invalid right there. And if separation of church and state is a myth, then I guess for one thing, you’re saying you know the Constitution better than men like Jefferson and Madison…interesting. Also, remember, separation of church of state works BOTH ways. So if it’s a myth, the government gets to do things like tell churches they have to perform same-sex marriages and such. If you’re okay with that, though….

          • Oboehner

            People can believe all they want, doesn’t make it any more real. And if you think separation of church and state does exist, then I guess for one thing, you’re saying you know the Constitution better than men like Jefferson and Madison…interesting.

            I believe the wording is :”Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;” There goes your “works BOTH ways” fallacy.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “No, Merriam/Webster.”

            The one you gave is 1 out of the 4 definitions of “religion” given. I’d go with #2 myself: “a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices”. Note that that doesn’t say anything about believing in a deity or not. You can have a religion without a god, but not believing in a god is not a religion in itself.

          • Oboehner

            It is a definition of religion, many words have more than one definition – one isn’t any less important than another.
            A belief there is no god is a religious belief. If it were as simple as mere non-belief, this story would have never happened, the “issue” taken was a direct result of their religious belief.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            One isn’t any less important that another!?? That’s utterly ridiculous. Yes, words can have more than one definition, but they are not ALL equally significant all the time. There is a little thing called context, you know. A word doesn’t always mean the same thing, it often depends on how it is being used, and what the person using it is talking about.

            It reminds me of something that comes up sometimes in this very forum, for one example….the people that object to evolution by saying something like “it’s just a theory, it’s not proven, blah blah blah”. The problem with that is, they’re not understanding what “theory” means in a scientific context. There, it means “an explanation of some aspect of the natural world that can, in accordance with the scientific method, be repeatedly tested, using a predefined protocol of observations and experiments.” They’re still using it in the sense of “an unproven assumption”, which in science would be termed a hypothesis or perhaps a conjecture. Now, if you’re going to tell me that both of those definitions are equally important ALL the time, that’s just wrong.

          • Oboehner

            The problem is “science” is tacking the term theory to their religious belief. There is no proof of evolution.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            For one thing, scientific theories aren’t really spoken of as “proven” anyway. There is very strong evidence to support the theory of evolution, though. But that’s not even the point I was trying to make, I was just illustrating that words often have more than one meaning, and which one is meant can be seen by the context. So, no, not all meanings for one word are equally significant at all times.

          • Oboehner

            If your faith is strong, there is “evidence” for evolution, otherwise it’s a joke.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Beside the point here.

          • Oboehner

            Nice copout.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Also, you’re contradicting yourself right there. You said “the atheist cannot prove there is or isn’t a god”. I completely agree with that. I don’t claim to KNOW that there is no god. I do believe that is something I can neither prove nor disprove, so therefore, I am agnostic. I haven’t seen any evidence that convinces me that any particular religion’s god or gods exists, so, therefore I am also an atheist. I don’t “believe there is no god”, I lack belief in any god or gods. If you still can’t see the distinction there, I don’t know what more I can do, because I can’t explain it any better. I think I’ve said this before, it’s like the thing about “Russel’s teapot”: I can neither prove nor disprove that there is a small teapot orbiting the Sun somewhere between Earth and Mars. I don’t have any evidence to convince me that there is one, though, so I lack belief in it.

          • Oboehner

            “I do believe that…” Atheists have faith there is no god, a religious belief. This story is proof of their belief there is no god, otherwise they would just be neutral on the subject. Evidence? Look around you.

  • Jason Todd

    Here they are again. Let’s see if the Police Chief has a spine.

    • Ambulance Chaser

      You mean to waste his department’s money defending a futile legal position? Let’s hope not.

    • Grace Kim Kwon

      Hope so. Police officers should have religious freedom in USA. What is the use of protecting a nation that submits only to the evil of atheism, risking life? It only ruins children and brings despair. USA must differenciate the Good( Christianity) and the evil( atheism, Satanism, etc.).

      • bfw314159

        Police officers do have religious freedom in the USA, but that does NOT include promoting their religion on government vehicles or while on duty.

        • Grace Kim Kwon

          Christianity means safety and police officers should feel free to do Christian works anywhere in any form. All other religions or ideologies harm one group or another.

          • bfw314159

            Christianity means safety and police officers should feel free to do Christian works anywhere in any form.

            Well, we operate under the laws of the US, not Christianity.

            All other religions or ideologies harm one group or another.

            I agree, though I would also add Christianity.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Christianity birthed America’s lawfulness. Westerners including Americans are illiterate barbarians like the rest if they had no Christianity. Today’s Westerners are doing evil to Christianity because they are well-fed and bored and immoral. You guys need Christianity to be good and civilized again. You must repent your sin to get saved. Read the Gospel of John to find your Saviour.

          • bfw314159

            The constitution requires that the government stay out of religion.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Foundinmg Fathers never knew that Americans would become such oppressive gays to the point of mental illness. And too many drug-addicts. Human rights even need a new definition and add Christian morality to it so that mankind would not be bullied by American pervs this century.

          • bfw314159

            None of that has anything to do with the fact that the government needs to stay out of religion.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are wrong. West’s atheistic government bodies promote blasphemy, push and fund infanticide, and force people to accept Sodomy. The West needs Christianity to do good and what is right. Man(state) and conscience(Christianity) cannot be separated for the right thing to go on. It was a fantasy that ended in the 1970’s.

          • bfw314159

            West’s atheistic government bodies promote blasphemy

            The US government can’t define “blasphemy” because that’s the realm of religion, and would violate the first amendment.

            push and fund infanticide

            Nope.

            and force people to accept Sodomy.

            No, but public accommodations must accommodate the public. By the way, the majority of US adults have engaged in sodomy.

            The West needs Christianity to do good and what is right.

            Nope.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Public needs Christianity; that’s why USA was created. All the English colonies are that way. Amoral public hurts children. Westerners need Christianity to do good, or they force Sodomy to normal mankind.

          • bfw314159

            Sodomy IS normal in the US, since more than 50% of the public has had oral sex.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            USA is free to go down, but it should not drag other poor nations. No more slavery. USA needs the Holy Bible for the truth, freedom, decency, civility, and justice.

          • bfw314159

            No more slavery.

            We got rid of that a while back. Seems some Christians were fighting pretty hard to keep it (e.g. the Southern Baptist Convention was created specifically to defend slavery).

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            The Baptists are good people. The world willingly followed them because they are superb and excellent in every way. Western Sodomites are evil and corrupt mankind with depravity. There is a Heaven-and-earth difference between the Baptist Christian Americans and secular Americans. You Americans always need the Baptists-kind of Christianity to be good.

          • bfw314159

            The Baptists are good people.

            So supporting slavery was good?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            No, slavery is a average practice of all mankind. Only the Christian British and Christian Americans abolished it without foreign interference in the entire world. Bible-reading individuals do not stay as slaves. Literacy beats the slave owners. White American missionaries brought literacy into the entire world.

          • bfw314159

            No, slavery is a average practice of all mankind.

            And the Southern Baptist Convention was created expressly to support slavery. Plenty of Christians were on both sides of the slavery question; you don’t get to offset slave-supporters by subtracting abolitionists.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            No, Southern Baptists were good to everyone. They educated everyone and brought freedom to everyone. Illiteracy makes men slaves to another. Christians free people by God’s truth, medicine, literacy, and lawfulness. You don’t know anything about the Planet Earth because you grew up in an American bubble.

          • bfw314159

            No, Southern Baptists were good to everyone.

            Wrong — they started to defend slavery.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are wrong. They educated slaves and liberated them; that’s why many peoples of colors are Baptist today.

          • bfw314159

            You are wrong. They educated slaves and liberated them

            No, they argued for keeping slavery against abolitionists. They ADMIT that.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            But they ended up freeing the maximum nubmer of slaves on earth by educating the slaves. Abolitionists were Christian, too. America has NOTHING apart from the Christians.

          • bfw314159

            But the Baptists ended up freeing the maximum nubmer of slaves on earth by educating the slaves in the finest way.

            Got a cite for that?

            And that does NOT make up for supporting slavery for decades.

            Nor does it excuse your deliberate lie of “You are wrong” when I pointed out the SBC was started to defend slavery.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Read the Baptist history written by the Presbyterian scholars. ( Then-Presbyterians in America were not Sodomites like today) Everyone supported slavery on Planet Earth back then. Only the white American Christians and white British Christians started making fuss about it.

            SBC started to preach the Gospel and properly nurture the Church with the Word of God; they are one of the the best American groups today. Many colored follow them willingly and joyfully because SBC are noble. Racists, if any, are incomparably better than sexual perv nudists anyway. Be more practical.

          • bfw314159

            Everyone supported slavery on Planet Earth back then.

            Completely wrong again. France abolished slavery within its borders in 1315. You’re just making up crap now.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            France had colonies. Colored peoples in colonies were practically slaves to white men. It does not matter if the slavery was official or not. It’s okay. In the Non-West, men were enslaving women and the minorities. The English Baptists abolished slavey by giving everyone literacy on earth. Literacy beats all kinds of slave-owners.

          • bfw314159

            Not true.

            True.

            France had colonies

            Which is why I wrote “within its borders”

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Every tribe on Earth including the French had slavery or has been conducting slavery. Only the Christian English were honest enough to abolish it everywhere. Elsewhere, they lie about the system and keep slaves, still today.

          • bfw314159

            Australian Aboriginal societies didn’t have slavery. Maybe you should write about subjects you know.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Aboriginal societies enslaved women and children; women and children are men’s possessions except among the English. If the Aboriginal societies were so great, why didn’t the European tribes mimic them and adopt their culture and custom?

          • bfw314159

            Again, you attempt to dishonestly redefine “slavery”.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            No, you secular liberal young boys know nothing about slavery because you’ve been always treated utmost nicely by SBC. SBC is the liberator of the slaves in the world.

          • bfw314159

            Just keep demonstrating your dishonesty.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            SBC Americans even don’t know how much America’s SBC liberated mankind. Americans are humble and tend to forget the brutality of the world’s barbarism. That’s why they keep apologizing and giving you misinformation. Facts are facts. SBC liberated the slaves in the world by their good education. Your hatred against SBC is blinding you regarding the facts on Planet Earth.

          • bfw314159

            Facts ARE facts, and the SBC was created to defend slavery. They didn’t get around to apologizing for it until 150 years later in 1995.

          • Grace Kwon

            No, SBC was created to save humanity and liberate everyone from the darkness of slavery sins. Christians are the only species who do good and apologize for any shortcoming. When secular West apologizes, they just introduce another slavery all the while.

          • bfw314159

            No, SBC was created to save humanity

            You’d better tell the SBC they’re wrong about themselves, then:
            “WHEREAS, Many of our Southern Baptist forbears defended the right to own slaves, and either participated in, supported, or acquiesced in the particularly inhumane nature of American slavery; “

          • Grace Kwon

            SBC treated the slaves the best. That’s why many black people are willfully SBC today. Many other colored people are SBC, too.

          • bfw314159

            SBC treated the slaves the best.

            Cite?
            And that still doesn’t justify them defending slavery when they were created.

          • MarkSebree

            What subjects would those be?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Look up the Baptists’ mission map where they set up hospitals and schools and freed slaves. Almost every nation on earth. They did not support slavery but freed slaves. Literacy brings freedom. SBC started for preaching the Gospel. Baptists live for it. You Americans are being too spoiled by the nicest the most gentle Baptists. Stop repaying the good with evil.

          • bfw314159

            Look up the Baptists’ mission map where they set up hospitals and schools and freed slaves.

            Look up their founding documents where they defend slavery.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            It wasn’t their main purpose of founding, and the Baptists liberated most humans by providing them the finest education. SBC are the heroes of liberation on earth. In yesteryears they were confident to treat all their servants fair and well even if they kept slaves for a time, like George Washington did.

          • bfw314159

            It wasn’t their main purpose of founding

            Yes it was — that’s why it’s the SOUTHERN Baptist Convention. They split with northern Baptists over slavery.
            Maybe you ought to stop trying to defend slavery as “good”.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            No, it was because of theology. The Southerners are more Biblical than the Northerners. You should stop trying to attack good and helpful people such as SBC. Humans always conduct real abusive slavery when they go against Christianity. Christians are good masters and employers.

          • bfw314159

            No, it was because of theology.

            So now you agree that your religion says slavery is OK?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            No, the Southerners wanted to be more Biblical in many ways. Slavery of black people was their one blindspot. In talking of labor, we are all slaves to 1% today. Slavery as emplyees is not okay, but it happens. Slavery by evil must be abolished. Capitalism’s slavery is yet to be put down. Maybe not possible until King Jesus returns.

          • bfw314159

            And once again, you dishonestly try to redefine “slavery”. I can choose to change jobs, to open my own business, to retire; my employers can’t beat me. Slaves don’t have choices.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            But you are always only a slave to the 1%, no matter where you go or what you do on Planet Earth. Pretty much fixed. Slavery takes different shapes. You can never beat down those 1% and be free. Besides, those 1% should not be beaten down without judicial reasons anyway. In fact, you’ve been submissive and support infanticide and Sodomy as they wish, although not every slave -master is the same for now.

            God knows the fallen humanity’s economy system, that’s why He gave us the commandments He did, protecting both the elites and the commoners Jesus Christ alone can give you salvation and freedom. Read the Holy Bible. Read John 8 to understand freedom and Luke 16 to understand mankind’s economy. You will discover what you possess.

          • bfw314159

            Keep dishonestly trying to redefine slavery; I’ll keep calling you out.

          • Grace Kwon

            SBC freed mankind. Few others cared about global slaves’ welfare. Facts don’t change. Secular Westerners don’t care. They think the victimhood by barbarism is simply a bad luck on Planet Earth. A pagan mentality, that is. Jesus Christ frees slaves for-ever by His truth.

          • bfw314159

            SBC freed mankind.

            SBC supported slavery and the confederacy.

          • Grace Kwon

            Many people were that way at that time. SBC freed slaves more than anyone on earth. SBC are the greatest people in America and in the world. In fact, the largest unified moral Americans today.

          • bfw314159

            SBC freed slaves more than anyone on earth.

            Cite?
            And that still doesn’t justify them defending slavery when they were created.

          • Grace Kwon

            But if your logic is right, everyone is evil because everyone approves slavery and lives on it. Today’s better-off nations live by exploiting the Chinese slaves knowingly. Both the slave-users and slaves do not know slavery is wrong, until SBC gives them the Holy Bible. Current USA and all its servant nations live by slavery knowingly. For example, they rape children in Thailand, wrecking the Thai population.

            Everyone is a slavery-approver and a sinner who needs repentance and salvation on earth. Read Romans 3. SBC is one of the largest institutions who made fuss about this Earth’s slavery condition and worked day and night to free slaves. Their mission records and history are the proof. See the bigger world. Rich secular nations’ moderners are the biggest slave-users in the world’s history.

          • bfw314159

            But if your logic is right, everyone is evil because everyone approves slavery and lives on it.

            Uh, no. You fail logic.

          • Grace Kwon

            Bash all Americans of all time and all Earthlings of all time because everyone supported slavery one way or another. Atheists only attack the Christians because they expect Christians to be perfect, but Christians do not expect any good from the atheists. We just hope they will not commit abortion or suicide. You are attacking the only entity that ended slavery by attacking the SBC. Today’s America is establishing a real slavery by forcing immorality upon the nations.

          • bfw314159

            Bash all Americans of all time and all Earthlings of all time because everyone supported slavery one way or another.

            Now you’re just whining to try and avoid admitting that the SBC was created to preserve slavery. Hey, everyone’s equally guilty, so the fact that the SBC fought to keep slavery doesn’t matter, right?

            You have no morals.

          • Grace Kwon

            You hate the SBC because SBC alone freed slaves. True slaves today are the ones who support the West’s abnormal sexual depravity. All those who oppose the Sodomic Western imperialism today are free people. The Westerners including Americans need the Holy Bible for the truth and freedom and morality.

          • bfw314159

            You hate the SBC because SBC alone freed slaves.

            Now you’re just lying. The 13th amendment freed them.

            True slaves today are the ones who support the West’s abnormal sexual depravity.

            And once again you dishonestly try to redefine “slavery”. You should stop thinking about sex so much.

          • Grace Kwon

            Americans are slaves as long as they defend infanticide and homosexual depravity. Blasphemy, infanticide, homosexuality, and transgenderism are the America’s top 4 problems and the slavery, although Western Europe and Canada are worse.

          • Bezukhov

            Yeah, do Christian works while armed to the teeth. Who would dare to say “I’m not interested”?

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            If people are not interested, they don’t have to come. American police officers should be free to promote the Good, namely Christianity. That makes the society safer. Amoral secularism despises life.

          • Bezukhov

            How would you feel if a non Christian cop came up to you to and tried to convert you to his
            s faith? Remember, he’s armed.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            What faith? Others don’t convert but force, especially the Western Sodomites. No forcing. Christianity alone values human life. I’d say I’m Christian to anyone, though the atheists and Muslims and Eastern religious people endanger the non-members. That covers most of mankind. You naive Americans should learn the doctrines of each and every religion and ideology instead of attacking the only unconditionally safe and good people on earth, the Christians.

  • Shane Egan

    Christians here are so hypocritical – if this were a town’s police force endorsing Islam or the local church of Satan you would be up in arms about it. When it comes to your own religion you have a ‘We are special and should be treated better’ mentality – precisely what the founding fathers of the U.S wanted to avoid after seeing the religious strife between sects in Europe. In precedent setting cases the supreme court has ruled actions such as the police are undertaking as illegal.

    Rename the practice to ‘Police Kindness Week’ or whatever and encourage generosity, friendship and community spirit and the FFRF would have no trouble with it at all.

    As far as Christianity ‘valuing everyone’s life’ – they do so long as you agree with their religious views as clearly evidenced by your post. When someone does not agree with your views you insult them and attempt to belittle their status in society always overlooking the atrocities that Christian groups have carried out, and continue to carry out, in the name of their god. Even now devout Christian groups are killing ‘heretics’ and ‘witches’.

    • Dan R Francis

      Shhh! Christians are afraid of facts.
      Sarcasm aside, well said.

    • Reason2012

      Don’t have to worry about it because islamists and satanists have no desire to put their lives on the line to protect those who are not islam or satanists, but only to express their hate for Christians.

      • MarkSebree

        You do realize that there are Muslims, Atheists, Agnostics, Shaman, Wiccans, Hindus, Buddhists, and Satanists in the US Military, right? That would be an example of them “putting their lives on the line” to protect hateful Christians like you.

        They do so because they value this country, and they value their religious freedom that keeps people like you from forcing your beliefs onto them using the government or through discrimination.

        US Navy veteran (Desert Shield/Desert Storm), ’91-’97, Agnostic

        • Reason2012

          Talking about police, not those who join military in peace time, or get drafted (forced) in war time. Yes, you want to force your beliefs on everyone else in the name of standing up against forcing beliefs on everyone else. it’s why they seek to even force police to censor their Christian beliefs in the name of standing up against censorship of people’s beliefs.

          • MarkSebree

            Actually, that was wartime, and I volunteered.

            No, I do not want to force my beliefs onto you. You can believe any silly thing that you wish. However, you do not have the right to impose your beliefs onto everyone else.

            You do not know what I want. And you do not understand the law or religious freedom or religious equality. Note even all police are Christians. And the police are a government agency. That means that they are bound by the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment as expanded by the 14th Amendment while they are on duty and in uniform. That includes their government vehicles. They are prohibited from endorsing or disparaging any religious beliefs while they can be seen as representing the government. Off duty and out of uniform, they can worship however they want. That is not censorship. That is preventing censorship and respecting the rights of the minority, as well as keeping those who wield governmental power from abusing that power.

    • Jeff Tilley

      “When someone does not agree with your views you insult them and attempt to belittle their status in society always overlooking the atrocities that Christian groups have carried out .. ”

      I’ve never known any Christians like the ones referenced here. Why smear something or some one you don’t understand or respect? Just because you can?

  • Guzzman

    The Wetumpka Police Department, being an arm of government, is subject to the Establishment Clause’s prohibition of governmental endorsement of religion. The Supreme Court has made clear that “the touchstone of the Establishment Clause is ‘the principle that the First Amendment mandates government neutrality between religion and religion, and between religion and nonreligion.'” [McCreary County v. ACLU], 545 U.S. 844, 860 (2005).

    So any government act that violates religious neutrality — such as, oh, I don’t know, sponsoring programs that include Christian daily devotionals, hosting monthly dinners with local churches called “People Extending Christian Kindness”, and having police officers host bible studies for kids while on duty and in uniform, and then bragging about all of this on social media that is laced with bible verses — sure seems to me like an unconstitutional governmental endorsement of religion.

  • Reason2012

    When atheists want to put their lives on the line to protect others, they can put “we came from fish” on their police cars if they wish. Meanwhile more and more schools are indoctrinating kids with islam and these “atheist” groups do not care, showing they’re really pro-islam plants posing as atheists.

    • Dan R Francis

      No, Sweetie. You’re not above the law.

      • Reason2012

        Where’s the law that says Christianity is illegal and must be censored except where pro-islam activists give their consent?

        • Jason Todd

          Dan is a vile God-hating troll. Have you noticed his language? Flag him and make him go away.

    • Grace Kim Kwon

      Western non-believers hate only the Christianity because they are immoral. Pagans ignorantly hate Christianity. When the Westerners or young people hate Christianity, the reason is their love of immorality. Revelation 22.

      • Shane Egan

        I don’t hate Christianity or any other religion per se – but when believers like you want to make secular governments into theocracies I do have a problem.

        Tell me, what parts of the Old Testament would you like enshrined in law? Just the ten commandments – thereby mandating Christianity? How about the killing of witches? Or the stoning to death of people who work on the sabbath?

        Or are you going to go against the words of Jesus and reject some of the law? Are you a ‘real’ Christian or some weak-willed unfaithful ‘pretend’ Christian? Do you follow ALL the Bible or just the bits you like?

        How about keeping slaves for life and being able to beat them to death? Or committing genocide except for the virgin girls? Are you just as bad as any Taliban or ISIL member except you worship a different version of the same god?

        • Reason2012

          The OT ceremonial laws were just for the Jewish people, and we are now under the covenant of grace, while still expected to obey the Ten Commandments.

          And why be dishonest? The Bible condemned slavery that you’re implying as a capital crime.The slavery in the Bible was not forced (except in cases of a criminal, yet how is that different than going to jail). People were not bond servants because of their nationality or the color of their skin. In Bible times, slavery was a matter of social status. People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or provide for their families. Or even criminals became slaves to repay their debts. Sometimes doctors, lawyers, and even politicians were “slaves” of someone else (a.k.a., you owed a debt). Some people actually chose to be slaves so as to have all their needs provided for by their masters.

          In addition, both the Old and New Testaments condemn the practice of “man-stealing” which is what happened in Africa in the 19th century..

          “And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.”
          Exodus 21.16

          That alone proves the slavery of kidnapping others you are referring to CANNOT be what the Bible is condoning as that is condemned by death.

          Similarly, in the New Testament, slave-traders are listed among those who are “ungodly and sinful” and are in the same category as those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers, adulterers and perverts, and liars and perjurers.

          “But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
          1 Timothy 1.8

          It’s complete false that the Bible “condones” slavery the way we experienced it in the past few centuries.

          If we try to use this false claim as an excuse to reject God, we’ll realize what a critical blunder that was when we face Him. Please read up more on it to counter the false claims you’ve been fed.

          Notice “atheist” activists like you say nothing about islam while they continue to slaughter Americans and Christians daily and continue to be taught in our schools, which makes it look like the real truth is you’re not an atheist, but a pro-islam anti-Christian activist posing as an atheist.

          • Sharon_at_home

            The Ten commandments are covered by the 2 new commandments Jesus gave to us. There is another scripture that makes it clearer, and I will give that to you when I locate it again.

            29And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30And
            thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy
            soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

            The Tribal chiefs sold the men in Africa to be slaves for trinkets in case you didn’t know. At the beginning anyway, no one was stolen to be a slave, they were sold by their chief.

            You have no right to DECIDE what kind of person Shane is. You don’t know him at all.

            Why do you supposed Christians think you are allowed to decide what is going to happen, what a person “really” thinks. You have no authority to make decisions without facts. Only God can do predict what will happen to each of us.

            You should try using the IMO since most of your comments seem to be written in that way, and you should be more careful of how you treat anyone. After all, it could be an angel and if you talk to them like you talk to others here, that angel will tell the Lord that you do not know him.

            Besides, If other people were banned because of writing nice posts, then you can be banned for being insulting to other posters.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “You have no right to DECIDE what kind of person Shane is. ”

            neither do you and you are judging him …………

          • Sharon_at_home

            Gee I read over my post and did not see any judgement except when I refuted yours.
            I don’t judge as quickly as you do, so I can discern both sides and all information I can find for myself. I know a lot also by my own personal experience, whether it is while I wasn’t a Christian or was. I don’t huddle down and not see people or know people in my 60 years, oh no. not at all. I just stayed dormant and wait until the Lord called me

            give me a break and recognize that i have experience you don’t have and that information directs you to what you should do about this. Leave it to God. there is not way for you to influence anything about the situation. You seem to feel quite highly of yourself and feel quite sure that everyone else (almost) is much lower than you.
            I think you should look at this verse, and reconsider your level again.
            Matthew 23: 12

            And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            sure you did ….. your suggestion is that he is a good guy …… and your error is that christians are not allowed to judge ……. and they are …….

          • Sharon_at_home

            GO AWAY AMOS. You think you are right, but you aren’t because the bible says you aren’t . too bad. GO AWAY.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you think you are right ……….. but you are not ………. and you are far more out of orthodoxy than i ………….. what you do about it is up to you …………

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Be nice to Amos. He is right. Don’t tell any Christians to go away. You should leave your apostate unification social club and go to a real church.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “Leave it to God.”

            Not what we are called to do ………. sorry …….. it does not work that way ……….

            “I don’t judge as quickly as you do”

            do you know how bank tellers can spot a counterfeit bill ….. they all train to do it the same way …. they count money …. hour after hour …. day after day ….. and at some point their trainers slip in counterfeit bills …… and then see who can catch them …… and after a very short time ….. they can spot them instantly …… and christians are the same way …… you meet and greet as many as you can ….. and after a while you can spot a phony a mile away …… and it does take long ……..

            “Matthew 23: 12
            And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.”

            out of context and meaningless ….. a sign of a phony christian who knows not of that which they speak ………..

          • Sharon_at_home

            I find it offensive when you call me names that are not true. I could go through the system and get you sued for lying on a public forum about the person I am. You’d have to prove it in court that you did not lie, and that won’t be possible when you have told me repeatedly that you think I am not of the Love of God, but from our enemy and that I am evil
            I think it is you that is evil because a man of god would turn and walk away not be bitter and rude to anyone else. You don’t like my view, leave me along and I’ll leave you along with yours. Stop harassing me or you will be reported.
            I don’t use childish names to describe you. I just keep telling the truth and you don’t want to hear the truth.
            It’s up to you to stop these replies because I’m not going to lie down and give up, just because you think I’m wrong. I think you are wrong and that you have a corrupt view of the bible and Jesus and you Need Jesus to show you the way. God has always been about love. And not the love that disciplines, the love that is given unconditionally.
            Go Away Amos.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            i have never called you a name …… saying you are wrong or that you bring idolatry to the text is not calling you a name ……… and you are the one who keeps responding to me …… i do not stalk you ……. i do not follow all your posts …… but you keep saying things in error …. this is a public christain forum …… and when you are outside orthodoxy you can expect to be told about it ………… but please hang around …… it is the only way you are going to come back inside ………..

          • Reason2012

            The Ten commandments are covered by the 2 new commandments Jesus gave to us.

            Hello. They’re not new: love God with all your heart, mind, soul, strength – and no less great to love your neighbor as yourself.

            The Tribal chiefs sold the men in Africa to be slaves for trinkets in case you didn’t know. At the beginning anyway, no one was stolen to be a slave, they were sold by their chief.

            They can be sold by their chief all they want – Jewish people were put to death if they were found to have in their possession those forced to be slaves. They were not even to buy / sell bond servants with gentiles (non-Jewish).

            You have no right to DECIDE what kind of person Shane is. You don’t know him at all.

            What’s to “decide” if someone always attacks Christianity, they’re admitting they’re anti-Christian and hence yes, others can call them out on this specific fact. No “decision” necessary.

            And when they claim to be against all religions, but you ask them to show their posts against islam and they never do, then again it’s clear they’re not really against every religion as the only one they ever post against is Christianity – nothing to “decide”.

            You have no authority to make decisions without facts. Only God can do predict what will happen to each of us.

            You conflate “deciding” what a person is currently doing with “predicting” what they’ll be doing the rest of their lives. I did no such thing. I know many professing atheists who have come to Christ. I was only talking about the behavior currently engaged by said individual.

            You should try using the IMO since most of your comments seem to be written in that way,

            It’s not “IMO” that he’s attacking Christianity. It’s a fact he attacked Christianity. You’re not being honest. And where are his posts attacking islam? Whenever asked, they never can show any, making it clear Christianity is the only believe such “atheist” activists attack. This exposes them as anti-Christian at the least, and seemingly pro-islam since they never address it being taught in our schools and them slaughtering others daily in its name to instead express grief about a false claim the Bible in the past condoned force slavery.

            So you give a pass to others hatefully attacking Christianity, but then when others point out they’re anti-Christian, you call that “insulting” and is actually not honest.

            Take care.

          • Sharon_at_home

            Ok I will apologize to you for the misunderstanding of my post. Until I read your post I have not seen him post at all. Perhaps the posts have been deleted. I based it on a one time post, not knowing what you know of the background. If you had not explained why you were attacking him, then it would have appeared wrong.

            But I do apologize when I am wrong. You have shown me why I was wrong, and I do not find any reason to disagree with you.

            God bless you, and thank you for helping me to understand. I always appreciate it when I am explained about things rather than the person not helping me understand it.

        • Grace Kim Kwon

          Western atheists hate just Christians. They have no guts to go after other monotheists such as Jews and Muslims but they bully Christians in every way. Westerners leave the Eastern religions alone because Eastern religions do not condemn Western immorality, making selves one’s own filthy gods. USA was a theocracy; its founding document says so.

          The Old Testament Bible is the basis of lawfulness of the West therefore the entire world. Witches were killed because they killed children. Today they control the society because the liberals give them unlimited power. The one who worked on Sabbath was a national traitor who put the entire nation in danger. Read the Bible passage correctly. Today, national traitors get executions in most nations.

          I am a real born-again Christian, saved by God’s grace through putting faith in Jesus Christ. Ephesians 2. Jesus gave sinners more time for repentance in the NT era, but the Old Testament standard has not changed at all. Matthew 5.

          Mankind always kept slaves everywhere for all time. Christian missionaries abolished slavery everywhere. Pre-planned murderers were executed, unlike today’s injust society such as Sweden. Certain tribes had to be annihilated because their evil was irreversibly exessive; Leviticus 19-20.

          Virgins receive mercy because they assimilate into the given society( Israel in this case) by marriage and having children. Married women and boys usually take vengeance and destroy the hosting society. Americans don’t know the real world on Planet Earth, always being well-fed and spoiled by the Protestant Christian civility.

          Muslims don’t know what God wants of mankind because they don’t read His Word, the Holy Bible, as they should. Americans are bad today because they force Sodomy upon mankind. The West is being sad because it acts like a huge Sodom on earth. Today’s Ex-christian West needs to repent of its sins just as any other evil civilizations should. God decides how He would punish bad civilizations and evil nations. Sometimes He chooses to eliminate them altogether; it is up to Him because He is holy and just. Isaiah 40.

          • The Former Christian

            Get over yourself.

          • Jason Todd

            Atheists in America talk a lot about Christianity because that’s the primary religion that tries to take over our government.

            The only “religion” that’s trying to take over anything is Islam.

            I used to be a fundamentalist Christian

            Liar.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Christianity created the USA and the Christian religion is the only good thing about the Western Civilization. The West including America does mega-evil when it opposes Christianity. There is no such thing as a former Christian. You never believed. I John chapter 2.

        • Amos Moses – He>i

          “Or are you going to go against the words of Jesus and reject some of the law? Are you a ‘real’ Christian or some weak-willed unfaithful ‘pretend’ Christian? ”

          Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

          so if mans government fails to be a terror to the criminal, and instead becomes a haven to the criminal ……. then we have no duty to obey …. Romans 13 ….. and if you want to object to that …… then you are free to surrender to the Queen of England and end your rebellion ……… because this country would not exist if all christians simply obeyed mens laws …..

          take a hike Mike …………..

    • Goojee Too

      We do put our lives on the line, knowing full well this is the only one we’ve got. And yes we all came from simple bacteria long before there were any fish. For that reason we understand life is preciously brief and must therefore be seafeguarded. There is more courage and self sacrifice in a single strand of an atheist’s hair than a legion of your fake religious heads.

      • Reason2012

        If you’re a police officer, then put “we came from bacteria” on your car.

        By the way: why bother if you came from bacteria?

        Why bother if human life is no better than the life of a rat?

        Why bother if survival of the fittest is the great truth of all life, which is supposed to include humanity, another branch of life that’s not supposed to be any more valuable than any other life? That behavior alone proves you know survival of the fittest only applies to animals, that there’s a higher morality governing human beings. Your conscience betrays your claims – you’ve made it a life goal to hold human life of more value. If you really believed all life was equal, you would have worked to save animal lives as much as human life.

        And consider: In the name of “we came from bacteria” or “I don’t REALLY believe in God”, over 60 MILLION sons/daughters have been slaughtered by their own parents in the past few decades alone. No, getting away from God shows how evil and cowardly and wicked we all are (myself included).

        If you are a police officer, than I salute you. As you know, justice catches up with everyone, and it will catch up with us all when we face God for a lifetime of breaking His laws and refusing to be forgiven for it.

        Most churches are false churches, and most of them won’t even preach God’s truth. Jesus warned more about_hell than he spoke about heaven.

        “[Jesus said] And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.”
        Luke 12:4-5

        Please think again.

        • bfw314159

          By the way: why bother if you came from bacteria?

          Why does that make a difference?

          Why bother if human life is no better than the life of a rat?

          You are making an assumption that I doubt Goojee Too holds.

    • Cady555

      Lots of solders and first responders are Atheists.

      We don’t want to see any statements about religion on public property.

      Show me one public school teaching that Islam is correct. You can’t.

      If it’s completely fine for school social studies classes to discuss all the various religions. “This religion exists. Its followers generally believe X and celebrate these holidays.” It is not fine for a school to declare one religion correct or lead graduates in the prayers of one religion at graduation, although Christians do that all the time.

      • Reason2012

        If an atheist is a police officer, then he’s free to put “we came from fish and our lives are no better than that of rats” on his car. But what’s funny is, why defend human life as if it’s more valuable? If an atheist is a police officer, his behavior contradicts his supposed core belief: that human life is no more valuable than any other life.

        Are you claiming no schools are teaching kids about islam and how to get saved according to islam?

        Or are you claiming that they can teach this salvation message as long as they never say “this is correct”?

        If the latter, you have no problems with schools teaching salvation through the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, with the Bible teaching that Christ is God with us, the only begotten Son of God, and we are to believe on Him to be saved? (as long as they don’t say “this is correct”)?

        • bfw314159

          If an atheist is a police officer, then he’s free to put “we came from fish and our lives are no better than that of rats” on his car.

          Got any proof of that? I don’t believe you.

          But what’s funny is, why defend human life as if it’s more valuable?

          Oh dear — you have no intrinsic moral code, eh? You need a god to tell you what’s moral so badly that you can’t conceive of someone else having morals that don’t involve gods.

          Are you claiming no schools are teaching kids about islam and how to get saved according to islam?

          They aren’t teaching that Islam is the one true religion — I notice you didn’t include that.

          Or are you claiming that they can teach this salvation message as long as they never say “this is correct”?

          They can teach about religions, yes.

          If the latter, you have no problems with schools teaching salvation through the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, with the Bible teaching that Christ is God with us, the only begotten Son of God, and we are to believe on Him to be saved? (as long as they don’t say “this is correct”)?

          They can, if they don’t teach it as true. However, the phrasing you chose IS teaching that it’s true.

          Notice what you yourself wrote:
          “how to get saved according to islam”
          vs.
          “teaching salvation through the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ,”

          A parallel phrasing would be “how to get saved according to Christianity”

          • Reason2012

            Got any proof of that? I don’t believe you.

            Got any proof he can’t? I don’t believe you.

            Oh dear — you have no intrinsic moral code, eh? You need a god to tell you what’s moral so badly that you can’t conceive of someone else having morals that don’t involve gods.

            If you believe in fish to mankind evolution, that’s to believe human beings are no more valuable than rats or any other life form.

            They aren’t teaching that Islam is the one true religion — I notice you didn’t include that.

            They can teach about religions, yes.

            No, they can’t. Schools are routinely threatened by ACLU and FFRF whenever God is in any way mentioned in a school (poster, Bible on desk, mentioning God to a student if the student brings it up and so much more)

            They can, if they don’t teach it as true. However, the phrasing you chose IS teaching that it’s true.

            Same as their teaching about islam and how they believe you are saved as well. They’re both cases of teaching what that religion says about being “saved”.

            They don’t say “how to get saved according to islam”.

            But FFRF and ACLU and many atheists would disagree with you about even being allowed to teach “how to get saved according to Christianity”.

          • bfw314159

            Got any proof he can’t? I don’t believe you.

            Police officers don’t own the police cars they use. Can you put stickers on other people’s cars? On city vehicles? No.

            If you believe in fish to mankind evolution, that’s to believe human beings are no more valuable than rats or any other life form.

            Here you’re simply wrong and pretending to read minds.

            They can teach about religions, yes.

            No, they can’t. Schools are routinely threatened by ACLU and FFRF whenever God is in any way mentioned in a school

            This is a quote from the ACLU website from “JOINT STATEMENT OF CURRENT LAW ON RELIGION IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS” which is over 20 years old:
            Teaching About Religion

            5. Students may be taught about religion, but public schools may not teach religion. As the U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly said, “[i]t might well be said that one’s education is not complete without a study of comparative religion, or the history of religion and its relationship to the advancement of civilization.” It would be difficult to teach art, music, literature and most social studies without considering religious influences.

            The history of religion, comparative religion, the Bible (or other scripture)-as-literature (either as a separate course or within some other existing course), are all permissible public school subjects. It is both permissible and desirable to teach objectively about the role of religion in the history of the United States and other countries. One can teach that the Pilgrims came to this country with a particular religious vision, that Catholics and others have been subject to persecution or that many of those participating in the abolitionist, women’s suffrage and civil rights movements had religious motivations.

            The ACLU is one of the signatories of the above joint statement.

            The FFRF website has a 1995 President Clinton memorandum that states:
            Teaching about religion: Public schools may not provide religious instruction, but they may teach about religion, including the Bible or other scripture: the history of religion, comparative religion, the Bible (or other scripture)-as-literature, and the role of religion in the history of the United States and other countries all are permissible public school subjects. Similarly, it is permissible to consider religious influences on art, music, literature, and social studies. Although public schools may teach about religious holidays, including their religious aspects, and may celebrate the secular aspects of holidays, schools may not observe holidays as religious events or promote such observance by students.

            Also, from FFRF:
            “These assignments are not part of a study of comparative religion or the history of religion, but rather provide lessons in Christianity,” FFRF Legal Fellow Ryan Jayne wrote in early March.

            Thus distinguishing between the legal “study of comparative religion or the history of religion” versus the illegal “lessons in Christianity”.

          • Reason2012

            Police officers don’t own the police cars they use.

            The department does. When atheists are putting their life on the line to defend human life as more important than the life of animals, they can put “we are just fish” on their cars. But since they rarely do (to be honest I have yet to find a case where a police officer ever says it), it’s not an issue. Sorry you hate Christians putting their life on the line to protect the lives of everyone, including atheists.

            Here you’re simply wrong and pretending to read minds.

            They believe human beings are just another animal in the evolutionary chain, “proving” human beings are not special. Read up on what it is you believe in.

            5. Students may be taught about religion, but public schools may not teach religion.

            Please cite where in the Constitution we do not have freedom of religion except where atheists give their permission.

            The history of religion, comparative religion, the Bible (or other scripture)-as-literature (either as a separate course or within some other existing course), are all permissible public school subjects.

            Yes, they are. But FFRF and ACLU threaten to sue when such classes about the bible are offered. Google atheists complain bible history class.

            I didn’t ask you to tell us what ACLU or FFRF claims Please show a school teaching a Bible history class that the FFRF or ACLU knows about and approves.

            You won’t find one.

            But you’ll find many where islam is taught and the list is growing.

            Facts betray their claims.

          • bfw314159

            The department does.

            So, your earlier statement was wrong.

            When atheists are putting their life on the line to defend human life as more important than the life of animals, they can put “we are just fish” on their cars.

            No, they can’t. You’re making up false “facts” again.

            But since they rarely do (to be honest I have yet to find a case where a police officer ever says it), it’s not an issue.

            Wow, you can’t find any examples of your made-up facts.

            They believe human beings are just another animal in the evolutionary chain, “proving” human beings are not special.

            This doesn’t mean all atheists have to consider a human life the same as an animal. I eat meat. You’re just making up lies about atheists.

            But FFRF and ACLU threaten to sue when such classes about the bible are offered.

            When they’re used to proselytize, yes. Like the FFRF complained about Professor Daoud Nassimi and how he taught about Islam.

            Google atheists complain bible history class.

            Let’s see:
            an after-school bible club lead by teachers.
            Google for “FFRF, parent sue to end 75 years of bible classes in Mercer County, W.Va.” on the FFRF website and you’ll find this:
            FFRF’s legal complaint lists examples of the proselytizing curriculum. Lesson 2 promotes creationism by claiming humans and dinosaurs co-existed.

            Public schools can’t have teachers teaching that.

            Please show a school teaching a Bible history class that the FFRF or ACLU knows about and approves.

            I don’t know of any, but you haven’t shown one that they’ve objected to that isn’t proselytizing.

            But you’ll find many where islam is taught and the list is growing.

            Where? Really, NAME A SCHOOL.

  • Dan R Francis

    Well, Kids. Since some of you apparently aren’t intelligent enough to understand some things, let me spell it out for you.

    YOUR FAIRY TALE IS NOT THE LAW OF THIS LAND.
    The CONSTITUTION is the law of this land.
    And, no. You’re NOT special. You’re NOT above the law.

    Grow the fuck up or leave for a theocracy.

    • Jason Todd

      Flagged for profanity.

    • Amos Moses – He>i

      TOS violation ………..

  • Reason2012

    “Atheists” think it’s fine that islam gets promoted in our public schools more and more while pretending to be atheists against religion, which shows they’re really pro-islam, anti-Christian activists.

    • Goojee Too

      That’s simply not true and you know it. Atheists are non-believers of all walks of life who simply reject all gods including allah.

      • Robert

        That’s not true atheists believe in the God of self and worship at that alter. Until some a few realize how useless the God of self can be in really tough times.

        • Goojee Too

          were this true, could you blame them? your God’s useless at all times.

          • Sharon_at_home

            nope. not to us. You just do not see him in your life because you don’t believe. We see him in ours, because we know he is real and it’s that’s simple. We wish you could open your eyes and ears, but it isn’t up to us, it’s up to you.
            Yeah, my God has done plenty in my life that I could never call him useless.

      • Reason2012

        I didn’t say all atheists. I said atheist activists. Most are pro-islam activists pretending to be atheists. How can you tell? Because these atheist activists can’t show where they are speaking out against islam being taught to all kids in schools with even greater frequency as the years go by.

        Speaking of which, for example, please cite your posts in articles that are making it clear islam is being taught in public schools.

        • bfw314159

          Which schools? What are the names of some of these schools?

        • TheKingOfRhye

          “I didn’t say all atheists. I said atheist activists.”

          No you didn’t, you said “atheists”, in quotes.

    • Grace Kim Kwon

      Western athesits hate only the Christianity. They’d have no idea if the police vehicles carry the words of other religions.

      • Etranger

        Western atheists don’t even ‘hate’ Christianity. Requesting that it not be part of the police department has nothing to do with hate. Spreading lies about atheists…now that gets into the realm of hate (not to mention sin according to Christian theology).

        • Grace Kim Kwon

          Read Psalm 14. Atheists are evil. It’s a fact and not hate. Westerners have no idea about atheists’ brutal reign because the West never suffered. The world did. Christians created the USA with Christian ideals that American police should remember and honor the Christians more than they honor US military. Creators are greater than the defenders.

          • Etranger

            Your babbling doesn’t help your case at all. A coherent, fact-based comment could potentially help you. Although it seems you little grasp of atheism and the history of the USA.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Atheists only kill and destroy. Americans are naive; they never suffered any tyranny. Read Psalm 14 and John 10 and study the world history, not just US history.

          • Etranger

            More banking. But slightly more coherent.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You must repent of your evil unbelief to be saved.

    • The Former Christian

      Lies. Islam and Christianity are two sides of the same coin. We want NEITHER taught in any government funded school. Keep your fairytales in your homes. The truth is that people like you are no different from the Islamists you claim to hate! Not only do you want the government brainwashing American kids with your Bronze-Age fairytale, but you want the rest of us to have to live by its rules. Why don’t you just move to Russia if you’re opposed to democracy?

      • Sven

        Lonely single women, eh?

        • Robert

          The only reason your not facing east to Mecca and allowed to talk like you do is there is a lot of christians here . if we were gone you would be beat
          Like a ornary old ugly work mule. And if you sassed them you would get beat down some or just killed.

          • bfw314159

            You fail spelling and logic.

      • Jason Todd

        Islam and Christianity are two sides of the same coin. We want NEITHER taught in any government funded school.

        Prove it, then.

        The truth is that people like you are no different from the Islamists you claim to hate!

        Proof you have no idea what you are talking about, and you were never a Christian.

        Why don’t you just move to Russia if you’re opposed to democracy?

        Why not move to Syria, where it is alleged some 250 Christian children were kneaded and baked?

        Let the rest of us Americans live in freedom

        What is freedom to you?

        • bfw314159

          Prove it, then.

          How about listing some of those public schools where you claim Islam is “being openly taught”. That would be a good start.

          • Nedd Kareiva

            San Diego is one, has recently been in the news, look it up.

          • bfw314159

            That’s not the name of a public school. YOU look it up.

          • Reason2012

            They don’t want to “look it up” – they’re pro-islam activists pretending to be atheists and make it clear they’re pro-islam by how they go out of their way to lie and deceive to defend_islam being taught in more and more schools.

          • bfw314159

            They don’t want to “look it up”

            Because we don’t know what specific schools you and others are referring to. I keep asking you for specific schools, yet nobody ever comes up with any.

          • Etranger

            Being for religious accommodation for all religions as opposed to just being in favor of one religion (Christianity) is seen as being ‘pro-islam’ on this site. Fascinating lack of critical thinking skills here.

          • Reason2012

            And yet google public school islam and read all about the cases untouched by the supposed “ahteist” activists. Feel free to cite your posts on such articles showing your outrage that islam is currently being taught in many schools and the list is growing. Atheist activists never do – they go into defend islam mode: pretending it’s not happening and can never show any such posts.

          • Etranger

            I already referenced two cases ffrf fought.

          • Etranger

            There was no Islamic indoctrination. Atheists don’t get up in arms over religious accommodations.

      • Reason2012

        Islam and Christianity are two sides of the same coin.

        False – they reject Christ and Christ points out if any reject Him as the only begotten Son of God, they are still dead in their tressspasses and sins.

        We want NEITHER taught in any government funded school.

        That sounds nice. Now cite posts from you on articles where it’s shown islam is being taught in schools and the FFRF is doing nothing. Whenever I ask, “atheist” activists never can show a single such post.

        The truth is that people like you are no different from the Islamists you claim to hate!

        False. In 13 countries run by islam: those into homosexuality are_killed almost daily, many by being dropped off buildings. Please show a Christian whose laws are based on God’s law and not shariah law where those into homosexuality are_killed almost daily and dropped off buildings.

        But you prove my point: you claim to be atheist, but you defend islam and attack Christianity as supposedly being the same.

        Not only do you want the government brainwashing American kids with your Bronze-Age morality, but you want the rest of us to have to live by its rules too.

        Why is not_killing so difficult? 60 MILLION sons/daughters slaughtered by their own parents in the past few decades alone in the name of “I don’t REALLY believe in God” or “we came from bacteria anyway – I see no difference”. You seem to not mind American kids brainwashed with the “Modern-Age” lie of “we’re no better than rats”. Utter hypocrisy on every front.

        Why don’t you just move to Russia if you’re opposed to democracy?

        Censoring Christianity, indoctrinating all kids that they’re no better than rats, and supporting_islam that slaughters lgbt is not “democracy”.

        It’s too bad that it would “make life awful” for anti-Christian people to not slaughter their own children to avoid inconvenience. They even want everyone else to pay for it. So yes, Christians have the right to stand up to this hateful indoctrination and genocide.

    • Tangent002

      In my son’s Human Geography class, they had a field trip to a mosque. They also visited a cathedral and a synagogue.

      • Etranger

        Yeah, most schools, if they do a religious segment in class, treat all religions similarly and study them objectively. As it should be.

      • Reason2012

        FFRF threatens on any such trip to a Christian church -feel free to cite online proving this trip actually took place. But thank you for admitting they are taken to mosques.

        • bfw314159

          FFRF threatens on any such trip to a Christian church -feel free to cite online proving this trip actually took place.

          Feel free to cite online proving that the FFRF threatens on any such trip to a Christian church.

          • Reason2012

            You’re claiming the FFRF never sends threatening letters to schools for a teacher having a bible verse in room, a poster on a wall, or mentioning God, let alone taking a trip to a Christian church? is that what you’re claiming? Out of curiosity, what is it you think FFRF does if they supposedly do not do this?

          • bfw314159

            You’re claiming the FFRF never sends threatening letters to schools for a teacher having a bible verse in room, a poster on a wall, or mentioning God,

            Oh, sure they do. Teachers can’t push their religion on other people’s children, that violates the religious rights of the students and their parents.

            let alone taking a trip to a Christian church?

            That depends — is it part of, say, a comparative religious class as Tangent002 described, where they visited a mosque, cathedral and a synagogue? Or is it going to a Christian church to sing Christian songs?

            is that what you’re claiming?

            I asked YOU to cite an FFRF complaint over such an educational field trip to a church. Got one?

          • Reason2012

            Oh, sure they do. Teachers can’t push their religion on other people’s children, that violates the religious rights of the students and their parents.

            Precisely my point. When it’s Christians doi8ng any of these things, FFRF and ACLU threaten to take them to court as it’s “pushing their religion”. When islamists do it, nothing is done.

            Personally, I don’t think they should be taking a trip to any church. But Christians are threatened for having a Bible out, mentioning Christ, or even talking about God when someone asks them. But meanwhile islam is in the curriculum, they take trips to mosques, and FFRF and ACLU does nothing, proving they’re really pro-islam, anti-Christian.

            I asked YOU to cite an FFRF complaint over such an educational field trip to a church. Got one?

            Actually I don’t know of any schools trying to take kids to Christians churches – nor do I think they should – you got one that a school takes them to a Christian church? You got one where it was attempted and FFRF did nothing? Of course not.

            Meanwhile they are taken to mosque, have even been asked to dress up in muslim clothes, and FFRF and ACLU does nothing.

            But thank you for showing everyone else how you defend the indoctrination via islam by calling it “education”, yet when Christians do far less it’s “pushing their religion”.

          • bfw314159

            When it’s Christians doi8ng any of these things, FFRF and ACLU threaten to take them to court as it’s “pushing their religion”. When islamists do it, nothing is done.

            Wrong again. See e.g. the FFRF objecting to Professor Daoud Nassimi’s “Introduction to Islam” class, or their “Why doesn’t FFRF ever go after Muslims?” FAQ.

            It’s just that it’s almost always Christians who try this (since there are about 85 times as many Christians as Muslims, and most school administrators are Christians).

            But meanwhile islam is in the curriculum, they take trips to mosques, and FFRF and ACLU does nothing, proving they’re really pro-islam, anti-Christian.

            You haven’t given any cites. You’re just making up false “facts”.

            Actually I don’t know of any schools trying to take kids to Christians churches

            So you have nothing to support your earlier claim.

            Meanwhile they are taken to mosque, have even been asked to dress up in muslim clothes, and FFRF and ACLU does nothing.

            Again, YOU need to come up with ACTUAL EXAMPLES.

            But thank you for showing everyone else how you defend the indoctrination via islam by calling it “education”, yet when Christians do far less it’s “pushing their religion”.

            Nope, your made-up examples weren’t the same, you were comparing apples & oranges.

        • Tangent002

          I signed the field trip form. However, I neglected to make a copy for the sake of future Disqus conversations.

          • Reason2012

            So in other words it’s a complete secret that only your son’s class is aware of and no other class has ever gone on such a trip in that school that anyone else in the world can verify, ever. Ok, thank you.

    • Etranger

      There is definitely no evidence that atheist are fine with Islam getting promoted in schools. Atheists want no religion in schools. Which makes sense and should be supported by religious people as well. Religious people should want their children to learn what they believe at their church. Otherwise, no telling what the school might teach.

      • Jason Todd

        Google is your friend.

        • bfw314159

          Yes, it is, but I can only find atheists who stop unconstitutional acts, or point out some acts that are perfectly legal. Do you have an actual example?

        • Etranger

          Yes it is indeed!

          • Jason Todd

            No, idiot. Islam is being openly taught and accommodated in public schools. With not so much as a peep from the FFRF or anyone else.

          • bfw314159

            What schools? What are the names of some of these schools?

            The only one I know of was Tarek ibn Ziyad Academy, which was sued by the MN ACLU, lost, and went bankrupt.

          • Etranger

            What do you mean by “openly taught”? As part of history and religious studies classes? Good. Right along with Christianity and such.

          • Jason Todd

            What do you mean by “openly taught”?

            Don’t play games with me. You know exactly what I mean.

          • Etranger

            I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. you’re wrong then

          • Jason Todd

            You are a liar, applying a double standard in favor of Islam.

          • Etranger

            You make no sense. Prove it with some examples. But to save you time, you won’t find any. The Fffr would never support teaching of any religious beliefs aimed at conversion. No public school is doing that. You do understand the difference between learning about religions and proselytizing right? Oh maybe you don’t since you are a fundamentalist Christian.

          • Jason Todd

            “Lawsuit: Public school forced my child to convert to Islam,” Fox News, Jan. 29, 2016

            “Moms Raise Concerns About Teaching of Islam at NJ Middle School,” Fox News, Feb. 20, 2017

            “HIGH SCHOOL ‘MUSLIM PRAYER ROOM’ CHALLENGED,” WorldNetDaily, March 21, 2017

            “Saratoga County high school setting aside classrooms for Muslim prayer,” cbs6albany, May 24, 2017

            Now that you have been proven wrong at least and a liar the most, maybe you’ll admit it or just shut up.

          • Etranger

            You do need to read better sources. But yes, I am familiar with all those cases. The prayer cases are funny because Christians claim they are not allowed to pray in school all the time even though they are (just can’t be teacher led) and now they want to deny someone else the right to pray!

            The teaching islam cases are sad because, again, the students were learning about Islam and the parents weren’t smart enough to distinguish between learning (you know, educating oneself) and indoctrination/proselytizing. They were upset because they kids had to learn the five pillars of Islam. That would be like me being upset that my student had to learn the beatitudes. I would look like just as much an idiot as these parents do. Will be interesting to see the outcome of the cases.

          • Jason Todd

            And if we were talking about Christianity, you and the FFRF would be all over it. You know it, I know it. Drop the double standard and admit you are just another bigot.

          • Etranger

            Not at all. In fact, there have been legitimate complaints about how Islam has been taught in certain school districts that were egregious abuses of freedom of religion. Guess who fought against it? The FFRF! (Yes, atheists…) The FFRF also objected to Muslim prayer rooms at the University of Iowa because there was already a multi-denominational chapel on campus. So, you initial argument about atheists fails. There is no double standard. You are clearly ‘just another bigot’. (Not only anti-muslim but anti-atheist!).

          • Jason Todd

            1) There is a double standard. Your attempt at some kind of upmanship or moral high ground doesn’t change that.

            2) This is not about me. Period.

          • Etranger

            Well there can’t be a double standard if atheists raise a stink for both religions when they cross the line.

          • Jason Todd

            There is a double standard. You need to stop telling lies just to make atheist commies look good.

          • Etranger

            Where is the double standard? I have shown you there is not. Just google ffrf and Islam.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Oh, well, never mind then. We certainly can’t overcome such a well-constructed argument.

          • Etranger

            Remember….google is your friend 🙂

          • bfw314159

            And if we were talking about Christianity, you and the FFRF would be all over it.

            There’s no public school in the US that teaches about Islam that doesn’t also teach about Christianity.

      • Reason2012

        Sure there is. Google public school islam, read all about the outrage that kids are taught islam and even taken to mosques and read the complete absence of atheists doing or saying anything about it.

        • Etranger

          No the ffrf has filed suit against the schools who have sought to make students follow the religion. Learning about Islam? No problem. Visiting a mosque. No problem either.

          • Reason2012

            Thank you for proving how “atheists” will defend islam being taught in school, but not the exact same things being taught about Christianity in schools. Their behavior is identical to pro-islam, anti-Christian activists. Total coincidence I’m sure.

          • Etranger

            You didn’t really read my comment too well. The ffrf is called an atheist group by many. It does not defend Islam being taught in school if it is not in a comparative religion setting. No atheist would defend proselytizing by any religion in schools.

    • TheKingOfRhye

      You love nothing more than to set up strawmen, don’t you?

  • Chris Clayton

    About 25% of Americans, and 30% of those under 30, now cite “None of the Above” when asked their religion. The growing “nones” support keeping government neutral with regard to religion.

    This means no prayer in school (Supreme Court, 1962, Engel v. Vitale). No posting of the Ten Commandments in classrooms (Supreme Court, 1980, Stone v. Graham, when the court ruled 5-2 that the Ten Commandments “had no secular legislative purpose” and were “plainly religious in nature.”

    It is time to follow these rulings and leave church business to the churches and let those without religion to live in a secular world when it come so official government business.

    • Denny

      You fcked any little boys today, fairy?

    • bfw314159

      I agree, though you need to write “no government-sanctioned prayer in school”. Students can pray.

      • Chris Clayton

        Good point.

        I would recommend studying, but I am sure that some students turn to prayer in hopes of getting a passing grade. In that case, it is critical that prayer is not orchestrated by the teacher. “Johnny will now lead the class in prayer” is just as unconstitutional as having the teacher lead the prayer.

        • Ambulance Chaser

          Yep. Santa Fe ISD v. Doe.

    • Jason Todd

      About 25% of Americans, and 30% of those under 30, now cite “None of the Above” when asked their religion. The growing “nones” support keeping government neutral with regard to religion.

      Source.

      This means no prayer in school (Supreme Court, 1962, Engel v. Vitale). No posting of the Ten Commandments in classrooms (Supreme Court, 1980, Stone v. Graham, when the court ruled 5-2 that the Ten Commandments “had no secular legislative purpose” and were “plainly religious in nature.”

      False. First Amendment protects religious speech, even in the classroom. Read it.

      • Cady555

        Yes. Students have a first amendment right to pray (or not pray), to select religious material (or not) for personal reading, and to form and join clubs reflecting their religious beliefs (or lack thereof).

        This means school employees cannot lead prayers or cause prayers to be led. School employees cannot favor one religious view or disfavor another.

        Every student gets to attend their every event at their own high school without being led in prayer to someone else’s god. Every student gets to attend their own graduation without being told that they must adopt someone else’s religion to be a productive member of society.

        Why is it so hard for Christians to treat others as they would want to be treated?

        • Jason Todd

          This means school employees cannot lead prayers or cause prayers to be led.

          Wait. School employees cannot do that because students have options? What kind of logic is that?

          Every student gets to attend their every event at their own high school without being led in prayer to someone else’s god. Every student gets to attend their own graduation without being told that they must adopt someone else’s religion to be a productive member of society.

          And what about what you want? Someone might be offended because someone mentions God or Jesus Christ, therefore no one should be able to?

          Aren’t you forcing your will onto everyone else, making you a hypocrite?

          As you already admitted, the First Amendment gives people options. You don’t want to pray? Then don’t. And leave those who do alone.

          • bfw314159

            School employees cannot do that because students have options?

            No, it’s because school employees are government employees and would be violating the establishment clause. I have this odd idea that parents get to decide what kind of religious upbringing their own children receive, NOT some random school official. Who would want that?

            Aren’t you forcing your will onto everyone else, making you a hypocrite?

            No, that’s called making graduation open to everyone. Read Lee v. Weisman.

            By the way, do you have the names of any of those public schools that teach Islam yet?

          • Cady555

            I notice you did not respond to my statement School employees cannot favor one religious view or disfavor another.

            This is the whole point.

            When I was a Southern Baptist, I was taught that prayers to saints were idolatry and a sin against God.

            Imagine if the principal of a school.led prayers to the Virgin Mary over the intercom every morning. This would violate the freedom of religion of every Southern Baptist student by causing them to participate in prayer. (Prayer is talking to god in your head. Listening to a prayer is praying.)

            Catholic students can talk to saints in their head all day long. But school employees cannot lead prayers or allow school loud spakers to be used to make everybody pray.

            Christians take it for granted b that they will not have to listen to someone else’s prayers at school functions. Why cant you see that everyone else wants tbe same respect?

          • Jason Todd

            This is the whole point.

            No, this is your whole point:

            Your freedom of religion stops where the next guy’s freedom begins.

            Apparently your definition of “freedom of religion” differs greatly with how the US Constitution defines it.

            China, Cuba, heck, even North Korea. Go there, stay there. Or get used to the fact this is not a communist country and keep your mouth shut.

          • Cady555

            No. My understanding of Freedom of Religion is entirely how the US Constitution defines it, as evidenced by numerous Supreme Court rulings.

            Did you bother to read anything i wrote? Students have religious rights. These rights are protected by ensuring nobody – nobody – uses government authority to influence the religious belief or practice of someone else.

            Religious freedom is broad, but does not include “I get to make other people pray to my preferred deity.”

            The government cannot favor one reigion over another or religion over non religion.

            Nobody can use government authority to cause other people to take part in religious exercise. School officials cannot lead students in prayer. This protects your religious freedom and mine.

          • Jason Todd

            The First Amendment guarantees free speech and freedom of religion.

            Men in black robes said the exact opposite is true.

            Godless organizations such as the FFRF have abused these unconstitutional rulings in their pursuit to remove God from society.

            I have said you don’t believe in freedom of religion. You haven’t denied it. And what other conclusion could one draw from what you have already said?

            You get blocked now. Bye-bye.

  • Nedd Kareiva

    Regardless of one’s opinion, doesn’t it strike you odd (particularly if you’re an average individual that doesn’t go about being offended by every itty bitty thing you see) that an atheist group in Madison, WI, is bothered by an Alabama rural police dept’s off-duty business? Who can seriously argue that FFRF’s goal is to sanitize America from anything remotely Judeo-Christian?

    In this case, according to this article and the FFRF, these troublemakers don’t even have a plaintiff they are legally contracting with. Perhaps they can’t find any Alabamans who are offended by this city’s activities, despite its claims in its letter that they have Alabamans among their 29,000 members. But regardless, the case should be dismissed out of hand since FFRF cannot prove any tangible proof of harm, let alone that no plaintiff is willing to represent the God hating legal team.

    Good grief, time these birds be countersued and put out of existence!

    And for all the God & Christianity haters posting, what do you care what goes on in Wetumpka, AL? I daresay none of you ever heard of this town until this piece appeared.

    • bfw314159

      Who can seriously argue that FFRF’s goal is to sanitize America from anything remotely Judeo-Christian?

      The FFRF is in favor of having the government follow the first amendment’s prohibition against establishment of religion.

      But regardless, the case should be dismissed out of hand since FFRF cannot prove any tangible proof of harm

      Government violating the first amendment is sufficient.

      Good grief, time these birds be countersued and put out of existence!

      You can’t just sue the FFRF because you don’t like them, you need a legal reason. What are your grounds for a lawsuit?

      • Oboehner

        So which religion did they establish? And why is the atheist religion so special?

        “You can’t just sue the FFRF because you don’t like them, you need a legal reason. What are your grounds for a lawsuit?”

        “Government violating the first amendment is sufficient.” Establishing atheism.

        • bfw314159

          So which religion did they establish?

          The first amendment bars “establishment of religion”, not just “establishment of A religion”.

          And why is the atheist religion so special?

          Atheism isn’t a religion, and removing establishment violations doesn’t promote atheism.

          Establishing atheism.

          They aren’t, and since the FFRF is a private group, they can’t be in violation of establishment — only the government can be.

          • Oboehner

            So Congress made a law establishing religion in Alabama?
            Atheism is most assuredly a religion, and yes it is an attempt to replace one religion for another.

          • bfw314159

            So Congress made a law establishing religion in Alabama?

            No.

            Atheism is most assuredly a religion

            No, it isn’t, just as theism isn’t a religion.

            and yes it is an attempt to replace one religion for another.

            Removing an unconstitutional establishment of religion is required and makes it neutral.

          • Oboehner

            If no religion was established, then why is the FFRC (or whatever) so butt-hurt?

          • bfw314159

            The first amendment covers more than that.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            He’s playing dumb to set you up so that he can tell you that hundreds of years of Supreme Court precedent are irrelevant to the current interpretation of the First Amendment.

          • Oboehner

            Speaking of playing dumb, still whining about your wasted time studying unconstitutional court legislation I see. Too bad with all of your wasted time studying, you can’t come up with any legal right for the judicial to legislate. Maybe you could come up with an easy one, what representation did I have in Roe v. Wade that it would have ANYTHING to do with me?

          • Ambulance Chaser

            “Wasted time?” You may not agree with how we practice law, but it’s how we practice law. That I assure you.

          • Oboehner

            So if all the lawyers jumped off a cliff, you would be following right behind too.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Okay then. Put your money where your mouth is. Next time you need a lawyer, make sure s/he doesn’t use case law. For anything.

          • Oboehner

            One must fight fire with fire no matter how wrong it is.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Well then tell your lawyer that on YOUR case, he’s not allowed to cite any case law.

          • Oboehner

            I’m more likely to be a juror, and will find against case “law”.

          • Oboehner

            So?

          • bfw314159

            So your question isn’t relevant.

          • Oboehner

            “The first amendment covers more than that.” is irrelevant.

          • bfw314159

            Wrong, that’s why it applies here.

          • Oboehner

            If you say so, or whatever…

          • bfw314159

            No, it’s the courts that say so.

          • Oboehner

            Doesn’t pertain to me I wasn’t represented in any such court case.

          • bfw314159

            You don’t understand how the US judicial system works, do you?

          • Oboehner

            Why don’t you demonstrate how a single court case pertains to me if I was not represented in it.

          • bfw314159

            So NO supreme court decisions pertain to you? You can, say, own a public accommodation and discriminate on the basis of race because you weren’t a party to Heart of Atlanta Motel Inc. v. United States?

          • Ambulance Chaser

            I wonder how the Supreme Court denialists deal with that one. In Heart of Atlanta, the motel sued the government arguing that the Civil Rights Act was unconstitutional. The Supreme Court said it wasn’t.

            So…now what happens? I mean, obviously, here on Earth, the government just goes on enforcing the CRA.

            In whatever dimension the denialists live in, well, someone help me out here because I didn’t go to the Oboehner school of law. What happens when the Supreme Court DOESN’T overturn a law, but you’re still really, really sure it’s unconstitutional? I mean, in this case, the Appellants WANTED the Supreme Court to overturn the law, but they didn’t. What happens now??

          • Oboehner

            Can you say only Congress can make law? You still haven’t demonstrated how a court case in which I had no representation in pertains to me.

          • bfw314159

            Can you say only Congress can make law?

            No, state government make laws too.

            You still haven’t demonstrated how a court case in which I had no representation in pertains to me.

            Not to you, no.

          • Oboehner

            “No, state government make laws too.” In that state.

          • bfw314159

            Well duh.

          • Oboehner

            Ah, yeah..

          • Ambulance Chaser

            Correct, and willfully.

      • Chet

        They can surely ignore them and keep on keeping on honoring the Lord and blessing the public…

        • Ambulance Chaser

          You can “honor the Lord” all you want. The government can’t. And if it tries, it will quickly find out the consequences.

          • Chet

            “Consequences”, what were they back when this nation was founded upon Judeo/Christian ethics? “And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in Hell” Matthew 10:28, Holy Bible. Now, that’s some real “consequences”…

    • TheKingOfRhye

      “Who can seriously argue that FFRF’s goal is to sanitize America from anything remotely Judeo-Christian?”

      Good question. I wouldn’t argue that that is their goal myself.

      • Bob Johnson

        sanitize American government and public accommodation businesses – the rest of America, that is most of America, is free to pursue Judeo-Christian theology.

        • Ambulance Chaser

          Not even sanitize businesses. You can put up all the Jesus posters and crosses you want in your store. As long as you’re not keeping out any protected classes, you’re good.

  • Bezukhov

    People with guns spreading their faith? The optics is all wrong. Who would dare to say “No!” to their blandishments?

  • MEP1101

    These belligerent, aggressors are also not “Atheists” as they claim, because Atheism is just non-belief or doubt in the existence of God, and there is no passion in non belief or doubt. What then drives their fiery activism in opposition to people believing in God, even murdering them where the government is Atheist ( Communist )? The two main sources behind passion and zeal are Love and Hate, and it is obvious which one of these feeds the fire of these anti-God zealots ! They are God Haters as the Bible describes them in Romans 1:30. They are also part of the End Times Jewish, Anti-Christ waging war against the Jewish Christ, Jesus. And so we see history coming full circle, with the End times Anti-Christ having the same identity as the Anti-Christ that had Jesus murdered and persecuted his followers. What a marvelous confirmation that the Bible is THE BOOK OF TRUTH !

  • Chet

    Police Chief, toss the FFRF’s memo in the trash and continue on as you’ve been doing. If they caterwaul, tell em to take it up with God Almighty whom they deny exists… Whatever the case, do not tremble in the face of adversity only to drop and roll over. No Sir, don’t do it. Trust God and let Him handle the matter and be blessed in your own heart fro doing the right thing… Stand Up, Stand Up For Jesus Ye Soldiers Of The Cross…

    • MarkSebree

      Where upon the FFRF files a lawsuit against the police chief, the police department, and possibly the city. The police department loses the case, and has to pay the FFRF’s legal fees.

      The FFRF has the law on their side, and the police department is supposed to be upholding the law. The right thing to do is to remove the religious references from government equipment and locations. The police are supposed to be protecting all citizens, not just evangelical, dominionistic christians that want to impose their beliefs onto everyone.

      • Chet

        Aw hogwash! Let them file suit while the PD trusts God to work things out to His glory and honor. He is a miracle working God who’s always right on time. The PD is indeed upholding the law as is and serving, and protecting all their citizens, that is the Christians as well as the the haters of God and His Christ with their caterwauling, bellyaching and crying the blues over nothing. They don’t believe God even exists, thus no need to whine over nothing, no…

        • MarkSebree

          And the police department will lose since US law and judicial precedence trumps any individuals religious beliefs. And if it is ignoring the US Constitution, then it is indeed ignoring the law since the US Constitution is the supreme law in the USA. And such a blatant endorsement of religion and disregard for the law reasonably calls into question their impartiality when dealing with people who are not of their religion.

          The people calling the police department to task do not “hate” your deity. They love the USA and the US Constitution, and expect the government to actually follow its own laws. That is not “nothing”.

          • Chet

            You have no idea who wins and who loses. God rules in the affairs of men according to His good will and purpose, to include those who believe not. When Daniel was tossed into the lion’s den it was thought to be all over but God had other plans for Daniel who came out whole even as his accusers were subsequently tossed in the same pit and devoured prior to their hitting its very bottom. There is no conflict in this case with America’s Constitution. Stop trying to create something out of nothing. And Christianity is no mere “religion” rather, it’s all about one’s relationship with the Almighty via His only begotten Son, the Lord Jesus Christ of Calvary. Stop needless worrying about being influenced by the Lord whom you see as non existent and you’ll be a happier man…