Atheist Activist Group Takes Issue With Alabama Police Department’s Mix of God With Government

Photo Credit: Wetumpka Police Department/Facebook

WETUMPKA, Ala. — A prominent professing atheist group recently sent a letter to officials with a city in Alabama to assert that its police department’s mixture of God with government is unlawful.

The Wisconsin-based Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF) wrote to the City of Wetumpka on June 7 after learning that its police department hosts a summer community program at its facility that includes daily devotionals, and offers a monthly dinner with area churches known as “People Extending Christian Kindness.” The dinner is mentioned on the department’s Facebook page, which includes text thanking God or citing Scripture.

Some officers also host Bible studies with children on the streets.

FFRF contended in its correspondence that the police department is not being neutral toward religion by hosting the events and writing about them on Facebook, and that its involvement in Christian activities makes non-Christian residents feel like “outsiders.”

“The police department’s proselytizing and the endorsement of this proselytizing through the official Facebook pages of the city and the department violate the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment by favoring a specific religion over others,” the group wrote.

“[C]itizens should not be made to feel excluded or like political outsiders because the local government they support with their taxes oversteps its power by proselytizing and promoting religious events through official government channels,” it stated.

FFRF asked that all such events be discontinued and that any Facebook posts of a religious nature be deleted.

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“We ask that all events sponsored by the city or the department discontinue including devotionals or other religious elements, and that the department cease official participation in religious events like the “People Extending Christian Kindness” dinners,” the organization wrote.

Wetumpka Police Chief Danny Billingsley declined to comment when contacted by the Wetumpka Herald about the matter.

As previously reported, in a recent dissenting opinion in a New Mexico Ten Commandments case, 10th Circuit Court of Appeals Judges Paul Kelly, Jr. and Chief Judge Timothy Tymkovich noted that the Establishment Clause is being interpreted incorrectly and not in “the historical understanding of an ‘establishment of religion,’ and thus with what the First Amendment actually prohibits.”

They explained that “[e]stablishment was … the norm in the American Colonies. Exclusive Anglican establishments reigned in the southern states, whereas localized Puritan establishments were the norm in New England, except in Rhode Island.”

This began in Europe, “the continent of origin for most American colonists,” Kelly outlined. “[E]ach country had long established its own state church—a generalized version of cuius regio, eius religio—over which each government exercised varying degrees of control. Germany and Scandinavia had official Lutheran establishments; Holland, a Reformed state church; France, the Gallican Catholic Church; Ireland, the Church of Ireland; Scotland, the Church of Scotland; and so on.”

Therefore, the Establishment Clause of the U.S. Constitution regarding “respecting an establishment” only referred to showing favoritism to one state establishment over another, and solely applied to the federal government.

“From the words of the text, though, two conclusions are relatively clear: first, the provision originally limited the federal government and not the states, many of which continued to support established churches; and second, the limitation respected only an actual ‘establishment of religion,’” the federal judges outlined.


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  • Grace Kim Kwon

    US police should not bow to Western atheists’ monoploy in the society. Man should not be controlled by atheism because atheism belittles human life. Atheists should not order around people including the government bodies. It’s the atheists who are unreasonable; they are like kids who claim they have come to exist without their parents. Police officers need Christianity to value and protect everyone’s life. Christianity is the only religion on earth to value everyone’s life equally.

    • Dan R Francis

      “WAAAH! I’m SPECIAL because of my fairy tale!”
      No, Cupcake. You’re not. You have to follow the real law of the land like everyone else.
      Don’t like? Get the fuck out.

      • Jason Todd

        1) You need to watch your language.

        2) The real law of the land allows freedom of religion and freedom of speech. If you actually read the Constitution you’d know this.

    • The Former Christian

      You could move to Saudi Arabia if you hate religious freedom so much.

      • Malleus

        Flagged. That kind of abuse is uncalled for. Take your hate somewhere else, fella.

        • bfw314159

          So you’re OK with Grace Kim Kwon writing “atheism belittles human life” and “the evil of atheism”, and that isn’t hate?

          • Ambulance Chaser

            And pretty much everything Jason Todd posts…

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            It’s not hate but facts. I don’t hate atheists. I forgive them and pray for them because I’m Christian. Telling the truth is a form of love.

          • bfw314159

            No, it’s hate.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Atheists hate the Christians. Americans must stop oppressing the Christians in the land; Christians are the only good people in America. You guys have been spoiled by the unconditional utmost niceness of Christians. I can tell because I’m a foreigner to the beloved USA.

          • bfw314159

            Atheists hate the Christians.

            You ought to stop lying about atheists.

            Americans must stop oppressing the Christians in the land

            Like what? Specific examples, please.

            Christians are the only good people in America.

            Wrong.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Americans are ignorant of atheists’ regime. American atheists are actually hedonists. American atheists blaspheme to make Christians suffer and prohibit the public view of the Cross and the Bible verses, like in this news. Leave the police officers alone in doing good. Christians created and nurtured and raised America. Today’s USA is being bad to Christians like a bad playboy son.

          • bfw314159

            Keep lying about atheists and whining.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Naive Americans need truths regarding atheism. Atheists kill and destroy. You need repentance for salvation. Psalm 14 and John 10.

          • bfw314159

            Atheists kill and destroy.

            Only some, just like some Christians kill and destroy. But you just lie about atheists — and who’s the father of lies again?

      • Jason Todd

        Okay. Full stop. “Religious freedom?”

        What religious freedom is there if practicing is absolutely restricted? You want it confined to our homes (“Keep your fairytales in your homes.” Your words.).

        And it’s funny you have previously mentioned Russia. From 1917 to 1990, their government both openly hated and promoted the torture and killing of its own citizens simply for believing in God.

        Let’s get one thing straight: Your bigoted anti-Christian vision of the United States of America does not in any way, shape or form match the ideals of the men who created this country and fought to keep it.

        No, it’s not us you should move. It’s you. I hear China and Cuba are still in line with your hateful, evil principles. Pick one.

        • Grace Kim Kwon

          So true. America has been one happy, prosperous state because it was under the dominion of the excellent Protestant Christianity. Elsewhere, people suffered brutal injustices because of lack of Christianity. No Christianity = No human rights or freedom.

      • Grace Kim Kwon

        Christianity alone grants human rights and freedom to all. All other religions and ideologies oppress humanity with falsehood. Western secularism forces Sodomy upon mankind. Western pervs are trying to bend mankind with homosexual depravity this century. No submission to Western pervs.

      • Bezukhov

        By people with guns on their hips, no less.

  • Status Cymbals

    Oh dear dear, are the Fanatical Foes of Religious Freedom swooning again? Get out the smelling salts.

    Underneath their furrowed old maid brows are a bunch of Inquisitors who wish they could do something much more serious than just sue.

    • bfw314159

      Underneath their furrowed old maid brows are a bunch of Inquisitors who wish they could do something much more serious than just sue.

      If only you belonged to a religion that said lying about other people was wrong…

      • Oboehner

        EVERYONE has religious beliefs.

        • bfw314159

          Did you have a point?

          • Oboehner

            Yes, here it is: EVERYONE has religious beliefs. Especially religiously zealous atheists.

          • bfw314159

            What’s that got to do with Status Cymbals lying about atheists?

          • Chris Clayton

            That is like saying everyone is a sports fan, including those that have absolutely no interest in sports.

  • Jason Todd

    Here they are again. Let’s see if the Police Chief has a spine.

    • Ambulance Chaser

      You mean to waste his department’s money defending a futile legal position? Let’s hope not.

    • Grace Kim Kwon

      Hope so. Police officers should have religious freedom in USA. What is the use of protecting a nation that submits only to the evil of atheism, risking life? It only ruins children and brings despair. USA must differenciate the Good( Christianity) and the evil( atheism, Satanism, etc.).

      • bfw314159

        Police officers do have religious freedom in the USA, but that does NOT include promoting their religion on government vehicles or while on duty.

        • Grace Kim Kwon

          Christianity means safety and police officers should feel free to do Christian works anywhere in any form. All other religions or ideologies harm one group or another.

          • bfw314159

            Christianity means safety and police officers should feel free to do Christian works anywhere in any form.

            Well, we operate under the laws of the US, not Christianity.

            All other religions or ideologies harm one group or another.

            I agree, though I would also add Christianity.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Christianity birthed America’s lawfulness. Westerners including Americans are illiterate barbarians like the rest if they had no Christianity. Today’s Westerners are doing evil to Christianity because they are well-fed and bored and immoral. You guys need Christianity to be good and civilized again. You must repent your sin to get saved. Read the Gospel of John to find your Saviour.

          • bfw314159

            The constitution requires that the government stay out of religion.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Foundinmg Fathers never knew that Americans would become such oppressive gays to the point of mental illness. And too many drug-addicts. Human rights even need a new definition and add Christian morality to it so that mankind would not be bullied by American pervs this century.

          • bfw314159

            None of that has anything to do with the fact that the government needs to stay out of religion.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You are wrong. West’s atheistic government bodies promote blasphemy, push and fund infanticide, and force people to accept Sodomy. The West needs Christianity to do good and what is right. Man(state) and conscience(Christianity) cannot be separated for the right thing to go on. It was a fantasy that ended in the 1970’s.

          • bfw314159

            West’s atheistic government bodies promote blasphemy

            The US government can’t define “blasphemy” because that’s the realm of religion, and would violate the first amendment.

            push and fund infanticide

            Nope.

            and force people to accept Sodomy.

            No, but public accommodations must accommodate the public. By the way, the majority of US adults have engaged in sodomy.

            The West needs Christianity to do good and what is right.

            Nope.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Public needs Christianity; that’s why USA was created. All the English colonies are that way. Amoral public hurts children. Westerners need Christianity to do good, or they force Sodomy to normal mankind.

          • bfw314159

            Sodomy IS normal in the US, since more than 50% of the public has had oral sex.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            USA is free to go down, but it should not drag other poor nations. No more slavery. USA needs the Holy Bible for the truth, freedom, decency, civility, and justice.

          • bfw314159

            No more slavery.

            We got rid of that a while back. Seems some Christians were fighting pretty hard to keep it (e.g. the Southern Baptist Convention was created specifically to defend slavery).

          • Bezukhov

            Yeah, do Christian works while armed to the teeth. Who would dare to say “I’m not interested”?

  • Shane Egan

    Christians here are so hypocritical – if this were a town’s police force endorsing Islam or the local church of Satan you would be up in arms about it. When it comes to your own religion you have a ‘We are special and should be treated better’ mentality – precisely what the founding fathers of the U.S wanted to avoid after seeing the religious strife between sects in Europe. In precedent setting cases the supreme court has ruled actions such as the police are undertaking as illegal.

    Rename the practice to ‘Police Kindness Week’ or whatever and encourage generosity, friendship and community spirit and the FFRF would have no trouble with it at all.

    As far as Christianity ‘valuing everyone’s life’ – they do so long as you agree with their religious views as clearly evidenced by your post. When someone does not agree with your views you insult them and attempt to belittle their status in society always overlooking the atrocities that Christian groups have carried out, and continue to carry out, in the name of their god. Even now devout Christian groups are killing ‘heretics’ and ‘witches’.

    • Dan R Francis

      Shhh! Christians are afraid of facts.
      Sarcasm aside, well said.

    • Reason2012

      Don’t have to worry about it because islamists and satanists have no desire to put their lives on the line to protect those who are not islam or satanists, but only to express their hate for Christians.

      • MarkSebree

        You do realize that there are Muslims, Atheists, Agnostics, Shaman, Wiccans, Hindus, Buddhists, and Satanists in the US Military, right? That would be an example of them “putting their lives on the line” to protect hateful Christians like you.

        They do so because they value this country, and they value their religious freedom that keeps people like you from forcing your beliefs onto them using the government or through discrimination.

        US Navy veteran (Desert Shield/Desert Storm), ’91-’97, Agnostic

        • Reason2012

          Talking about police, not those who join military in peace time, or get drafted (forced) in war time. Yes, you want to force your beliefs on everyone else in the name of standing up against forcing beliefs on everyone else. it’s why they seek to even force police to censor their Christian beliefs in the name of standing up against censorship of people’s beliefs.

          • MarkSebree

            Actually, that was wartime, and I volunteered.

            No, I do not want to force my beliefs onto you. You can believe any silly thing that you wish. However, you do not have the right to impose your beliefs onto everyone else.

            You do not know what I want. And you do not understand the law or religious freedom or religious equality. Note even all police are Christians. And the police are a government agency. That means that they are bound by the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment as expanded by the 14th Amendment while they are on duty and in uniform. That includes their government vehicles. They are prohibited from endorsing or disparaging any religious beliefs while they can be seen as representing the government. Off duty and out of uniform, they can worship however they want. That is not censorship. That is preventing censorship and respecting the rights of the minority, as well as keeping those who wield governmental power from abusing that power.

    • Jeff Tilley

      “When someone does not agree with your views you insult them and attempt to belittle their status in society always overlooking the atrocities that Christian groups have carried out .. ”

      I’ve never known any Christians like the ones referenced here. Why smear something or some one you don’t understand or respect? Just because you can?

  • Guzzman

    The Wetumpka Police Department, being an arm of government, is subject to the Establishment Clause’s prohibition of governmental endorsement of religion. The Supreme Court has made clear that “the touchstone of the Establishment Clause is ‘the principle that the First Amendment mandates government neutrality between religion and religion, and between religion and nonreligion.'” [McCreary County v. ACLU], 545 U.S. 844, 860 (2005).

    So any government act that violates religious neutrality — such as, oh, I don’t know, sponsoring programs that include Christian daily devotionals, hosting monthly dinners with local churches called “People Extending Christian Kindness”, and having police officers host bible studies for kids while on duty and in uniform, and then bragging about all of this on social media that is laced with bible verses — sure seems to me like an unconstitutional governmental endorsement of religion.

  • Reason2012

    When atheists want to put their lives on the line to protect others, they can put “we came from fish” on their police cars if they wish. Meanwhile more and more schools are indoctrinating kids with islam and these “atheist” groups do not care, showing they’re really pro-islam plants posing as atheists.

    • Dan R Francis

      No, Sweetie. You’re not above the law.

      • Reason2012

        Where’s the law that says Christianity is illegal and must be censored except where pro-islam activists give their consent?

        • Jason Todd

          Dan is a vile God-hating troll. Have you noticed his language? Flag him and make him go away.

    • Grace Kim Kwon

      Western non-believers hate only the Christianity because they are immoral. Pagans ignorantly hate Christianity. When the Westerners or young people hate Christianity, the reason is their love of immorality. Revelation 22.

      • Shane Egan

        I don’t hate Christianity or any other religion per se – but when believers like you want to make secular governments into theocracies I do have a problem.

        Tell me, what parts of the Old Testament would you like enshrined in law? Just the ten commandments – thereby mandating Christianity? How about the killing of witches? Or the stoning to death of people who work on the sabbath?

        Or are you going to go against the words of Jesus and reject some of the law? Are you a ‘real’ Christian or some weak-willed unfaithful ‘pretend’ Christian? Do you follow ALL the Bible or just the bits you like?

        How about keeping slaves for life and being able to beat them to death? Or committing genocide except for the virgin girls? Are you just as bad as any Taliban or ISIL member except you worship a different version of the same god?

        • Reason2012

          The OT ceremonial laws were just for the Jewish people, and we are now under the covenant of grace, while still expected to obey the Ten Commandments.

          And why be dishonest? The Bible condemned slavery that you’re implying as a capital crime.The slavery in the Bible was not forced (except in cases of a criminal, yet how is that different than going to jail). People were not bond servants because of their nationality or the color of their skin. In Bible times, slavery was a matter of social status. People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or provide for their families. Or even criminals became slaves to repay their debts. Sometimes doctors, lawyers, and even politicians were “slaves” of someone else (a.k.a., you owed a debt). Some people actually chose to be slaves so as to have all their needs provided for by their masters.

          In addition, both the Old and New Testaments condemn the practice of “man-stealing” which is what happened in Africa in the 19th century..

          “And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.”
          Exodus 21.16

          That alone proves the slavery of kidnapping others you are referring to CANNOT be what the Bible is condoning as that is condemned by death.

          Similarly, in the New Testament, slave-traders are listed among those who are “ungodly and sinful” and are in the same category as those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers, adulterers and perverts, and liars and perjurers.

          “But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
          1 Timothy 1.8

          It’s complete false that the Bible “condones” slavery the way we experienced it in the past few centuries.

          If we try to use this false claim as an excuse to reject God, we’ll realize what a critical blunder that was when we face Him. Please read up more on it to counter the false claims you’ve been fed.

          Notice “atheist” activists like you say nothing about islam while they continue to slaughter Americans and Christians daily and continue to be taught in our schools, which makes it look like the real truth is you’re not an atheist, but a pro-islam anti-Christian activist posing as an atheist.

          • Sharon_at_home

            The Ten commandments are covered by the 2 new commandments Jesus gave to us. There is another scripture that makes it clearer, and I will give that to you when I locate it again.

            29And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30And
            thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy
            soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

            The Tribal chiefs sold the men in Africa to be slaves for trinkets in case you didn’t know. At the beginning anyway, no one was stolen to be a slave, they were sold by their chief.

            You have no right to DECIDE what kind of person Shane is. You don’t know him at all.

            Why do you supposed Christians think you are allowed to decide what is going to happen, what a person “really” thinks. You have no authority to make decisions without facts. Only God can do predict what will happen to each of us.

            You should try using the IMO since most of your comments seem to be written in that way, and you should be more careful of how you treat anyone. After all, it could be an angel and if you talk to them like you talk to others here, that angel will tell the Lord that you do not know him.

            Besides, If other people were banned because of writing nice posts, then you can be banned for being insulting to other posters.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “You have no right to DECIDE what kind of person Shane is. ”

            neither do you and you are judging him …………

          • Sharon_at_home

            Gee I read over my post and did not see any judgement except when I refuted yours.
            I don’t judge as quickly as you do, so I can discern both sides and all information I can find for myself. I know a lot also by my own personal experience, whether it is while I wasn’t a Christian or was. I don’t huddle down and not see people or know people in my 60 years, oh no. not at all. I just stayed dormant and wait until the Lord called me

            give me a break and recognize that i have experience you don’t have and that information directs you to what you should do about this. Leave it to God. there is not way for you to influence anything about the situation. You seem to feel quite highly of yourself and feel quite sure that everyone else (almost) is much lower than you.
            I think you should look at this verse, and reconsider your level again.
            Matthew 23: 12

            And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            sure you did ….. your suggestion is that he is a good guy …… and your error is that christians are not allowed to judge ……. and they are …….

          • Sharon_at_home

            GO AWAY AMOS. You think you are right, but you aren’t because the bible says you aren’t . too bad. GO AWAY.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you think you are right ……….. but you are not ………. and you are far more out of orthodoxy than i ………….. what you do about it is up to you …………

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Be nice to Amos. He is right. Don’t tell any Christians to go away. You should leave your apostate unification social club and go to a real church.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “Leave it to God.”

            Not what we are called to do ………. sorry …….. it does not work that way ……….

            “I don’t judge as quickly as you do”

            do you know how bank tellers can spot a counterfeit bill ….. they all train to do it the same way …. they count money …. hour after hour …. day after day ….. and at some point their trainers slip in counterfeit bills …… and then see who can catch them …… and after a very short time ….. they can spot them instantly …… and christians are the same way …… you meet and greet as many as you can ….. and after a while you can spot a phony a mile away …… and it does take long ……..

            “Matthew 23: 12
            And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.”

            out of context and meaningless ….. a sign of a phony christian who knows not of that which they speak ………..

          • Sharon_at_home

            I find it offensive when you call me names that are not true. I could go through the system and get you sued for lying on a public forum about the person I am. You’d have to prove it in court that you did not lie, and that won’t be possible when you have told me repeatedly that you think I am not of the Love of God, but from our enemy and that I am evil
            I think it is you that is evil because a man of god would turn and walk away not be bitter and rude to anyone else. You don’t like my view, leave me along and I’ll leave you along with yours. Stop harassing me or you will be reported.
            I don’t use childish names to describe you. I just keep telling the truth and you don’t want to hear the truth.
            It’s up to you to stop these replies because I’m not going to lie down and give up, just because you think I’m wrong. I think you are wrong and that you have a corrupt view of the bible and Jesus and you Need Jesus to show you the way. God has always been about love. And not the love that disciplines, the love that is given unconditionally.
            Go Away Amos.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            i have never called you a name …… saying you are wrong or that you bring idolatry to the text is not calling you a name ……… and you are the one who keeps responding to me …… i do not stalk you ……. i do not follow all your posts …… but you keep saying things in error …. this is a public christain forum …… and when you are outside orthodoxy you can expect to be told about it ………… but please hang around …… it is the only way you are going to come back inside ………..

          • Reason2012

            The Ten commandments are covered by the 2 new commandments Jesus gave to us.

            Hello. They’re not new: love God with all your heart, mind, soul, strength – and no less great to love your neighbor as yourself.

            The Tribal chiefs sold the men in Africa to be slaves for trinkets in case you didn’t know. At the beginning anyway, no one was stolen to be a slave, they were sold by their chief.

            They can be sold by their chief all they want – Jewish people were put to death if they were found to have in their possession those forced to be slaves. They were not even to buy / sell bond servants with gentiles (non-Jewish).

            You have no right to DECIDE what kind of person Shane is. You don’t know him at all.

            What’s to “decide” if someone always attacks Christianity, they’re admitting they’re anti-Christian and hence yes, others can call them out on this specific fact. No “decision” necessary.

            And when they claim to be against all religions, but you ask them to show their posts against islam and they never do, then again it’s clear they’re not really against every religion as the only one they ever post against is Christianity – nothing to “decide”.

            You have no authority to make decisions without facts. Only God can do predict what will happen to each of us.

            You conflate “deciding” what a person is currently doing with “predicting” what they’ll be doing the rest of their lives. I did no such thing. I know many professing atheists who have come to Christ. I was only talking about the behavior currently engaged by said individual.

            You should try using the IMO since most of your comments seem to be written in that way,

            It’s not “IMO” that he’s attacking Christianity. It’s a fact he attacked Christianity. You’re not being honest. And where are his posts attacking islam? Whenever asked, they never can show any, making it clear Christianity is the only believe such “atheist” activists attack. This exposes them as anti-Christian at the least, and seemingly pro-islam since they never address it being taught in our schools and them slaughtering others daily in its name to instead express grief about a false claim the Bible in the past condoned force slavery.

            So you give a pass to others hatefully attacking Christianity, but then when others point out they’re anti-Christian, you call that “insulting” and is actually not honest.

            Take care.

        • Grace Kim Kwon

          Western atheists hate just Christians. They have no guts to go after other monotheists such as Jews and Muslims but they bully Christians in every way. Westerners leave the Eastern religions alone because Eastern religions do not condemn Western immorality, making selves one’s own filthy gods. USA was a theocracy; its founding document says so.

          The Old Testament Bible is the basis of lawfulness of the West therefore the entire world. Witches were killed because they killed children. Today they control the society because the liberals give them unlimited power. The one who worked on Sabbath was a national traitor who put the entire nation in danger. Read the Bible passage correctly. Today, national traitors get executions in most nations.

          I am a real born-again Christian, saved by God’s grace through putting faith in Jesus Christ. Ephesians 2. Jesus gave sinners more time for repentance in the NT era, but the Old Testament standard has not changed at all. Matthew 5.

          Mankind always kept slaves everywhere for all time. Christian missionaries abolished slavery everywhere. Pre-planned murderers were executed, unlike today’s injust society such as Sweden. Certain tribes had to be annihilated because their evil was irreversibly exessive; Leviticus 19-20.

          Virgins receive mercy because they assimilate into the given society( Israel in this case) by marriage and having children. Married women and boys usually take vengeance and destroy the hosting society. Americans don’t know the real world on Planet Earth, always being well-fed and spoiled by the Protestant Christian civility.

          Muslims don’t know what God wants of mankind because they don’t read His Word, the Holy Bible, as they should. Americans are bad today because they force Sodomy upon mankind. The West is being sad because it acts like a huge Sodom on earth. Today’s Ex-christian West needs to repent of its sins just as any other evil civilizations should. God decides how He would punish bad civilizations and evil nations. Sometimes He chooses to eliminate them altogether; it is up to Him because He is holy and just. Isaiah 40.

          • The Former Christian

            Get over yourself.

          • Jason Todd

            Atheists in America talk a lot about Christianity because that’s the primary religion that tries to take over our government.

            The only “religion” that’s trying to take over anything is Islam.

            I used to be a fundamentalist Christian

            Liar.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Christianity created the USA and the Christian religion is the only good thing about the Western Civilization. The West including America does mega-evil when it opposes Christianity. There is no such thing as a former Christian. You never believed. I John chapter 2.

        • Amos Moses – He>i

          “Or are you going to go against the words of Jesus and reject some of the law? Are you a ‘real’ Christian or some weak-willed unfaithful ‘pretend’ Christian? ”

          Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

          so if mans government fails to be a terror to the criminal, and instead becomes a haven to the criminal ……. then we have no duty to obey …. Romans 13 ….. and if you want to object to that …… then you are free to surrender to the Queen of England and end your rebellion ……… because this country would not exist if all christians simply obeyed mens laws …..

          take a hike Mike …………..

    • Goojee Too

      We do put our lives on the line, knowing full well this is the only one we’ve got. And yes we all came from simple bacteria long before there were any fish. For that reason we understand life is preciously brief and must therefore be seafeguarded. There is more courage and self sacrifice in a single strand of an atheist’s hair than a legion of your fake religious heads.

      • Reason2012

        If you’re a police officer, then put “we came from bacteria” on your car.

        By the way: why bother if you came from bacteria?

        Why bother if human life is no better than the life of a rat?

        Why bother if survival of the fittest is the great truth of all life, which is supposed to include humanity, another branch of life that’s not supposed to be any more valuable than any other life? That behavior alone proves you know survival of the fittest only applies to animals, that there’s a higher morality governing human beings. Your conscience betrays your claims – you’ve made it a life goal to hold human life of more value. If you really believed all life was equal, you would have worked to save animal lives as much as human life.

        And consider: In the name of “we came from bacteria” or “I don’t REALLY believe in God”, over 60 MILLION sons/daughters have been slaughtered by their own parents in the past few decades alone. No, getting away from God shows how evil and cowardly and wicked we all are (myself included).

        If you are a police officer, than I salute you. As you know, justice catches up with everyone, and it will catch up with us all when we face God for a lifetime of breaking His laws and refusing to be forgiven for it.

        Most churches are false churches, and most of them won’t even preach God’s truth. Jesus warned more about_hell than he spoke about heaven.

        “[Jesus said] And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.”
        Luke 12:4-5

        Please think again.

        • bfw314159

          By the way: why bother if you came from bacteria?

          Why does that make a difference?

          Why bother if human life is no better than the life of a rat?

          You are making an assumption that I doubt Goojee Too holds.

    • Cady555

      Lots of solders and first responders are Atheists.

      We don’t want to see any statements about religion on public property.

      Show me one public school teaching that Islam is correct. You can’t.

      If it’s completely fine for school social studies classes to discuss all the various religions. “This religion exists. Its followers generally believe X and celebrate these holidays.” It is not fine for a school to declare one religion correct or lead graduates in the prayers of one religion at graduation, although Christians do that all the time.

      • Reason2012

        If an atheist is a police officer, then he’s free to put “we came from fish and our lives are no better than that of rats” on his car. But what’s funny is, why defend human life as if it’s more valuable? If an atheist is a police officer, his behavior contradicts his supposed core belief: that human life is no more valuable than any other life.

        Are you claiming no schools are teaching kids about islam and how to get saved according to islam?

        Or are you claiming that they can teach this salvation message as long as they never say “this is correct”?

        If the latter, you have no problems with schools teaching salvation through the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, with the Bible teaching that Christ is God with us, the only begotten Son of God, and we are to believe on Him to be saved? (as long as they don’t say “this is correct”)?

        • bfw314159

          If an atheist is a police officer, then he’s free to put “we came from fish and our lives are no better than that of rats” on his car.

          Got any proof of that? I don’t believe you.

          But what’s funny is, why defend human life as if it’s more valuable?

          Oh dear — you have no intrinsic moral code, eh? You need a god to tell you what’s moral so badly that you can’t conceive of someone else having morals that don’t involve gods.

          Are you claiming no schools are teaching kids about islam and how to get saved according to islam?

          They aren’t teaching that Islam is the one true religion — I notice you didn’t include that.

          Or are you claiming that they can teach this salvation message as long as they never say “this is correct”?

          They can teach about religions, yes.

          If the latter, you have no problems with schools teaching salvation through the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, with the Bible teaching that Christ is God with us, the only begotten Son of God, and we are to believe on Him to be saved? (as long as they don’t say “this is correct”)?

          They can, if they don’t teach it as true. However, the phrasing you chose IS teaching that it’s true.

          Notice what you yourself wrote:
          “how to get saved according to islam”
          vs.
          “teaching salvation through the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ,”

          A parallel phrasing would be “how to get saved according to Christianity”

          • Reason2012

            Got any proof of that? I don’t believe you.

            Got any proof he can’t? I don’t believe you.

            Oh dear — you have no intrinsic moral code, eh? You need a god to tell you what’s moral so badly that you can’t conceive of someone else having morals that don’t involve gods.

            If you believe in fish to mankind evolution, that’s to believe human beings are no more valuable than rats or any other life form.

            They aren’t teaching that Islam is the one true religion — I notice you didn’t include that.

            They can teach about religions, yes.

            No, they can’t. Schools are routinely threatened by ACLU and FFRF whenever God is in any way mentioned in a school (poster, Bible on desk, mentioning God to a student if the student brings it up and so much more)

            They can, if they don’t teach it as true. However, the phrasing you chose IS teaching that it’s true.

            Same as their teaching about islam and how they believe you are saved as well. They’re both cases of teaching what that religion says about being “saved”.

            They don’t say “how to get saved according to islam”.

            But FFRF and ACLU and many atheists would disagree with you about even being allowed to teach “how to get saved according to Christianity”.

          • bfw314159

            Got any proof he can’t? I don’t believe you.

            Police officers don’t own the police cars they use. Can you put stickers on other people’s cars? On city vehicles? No.

            If you believe in fish to mankind evolution, that’s to believe human beings are no more valuable than rats or any other life form.

            Here you’re simply wrong and pretending to read minds.

            They can teach about religions, yes.

            No, they can’t. Schools are routinely threatened by ACLU and FFRF whenever God is in any way mentioned in a school

            This is a quote from the ACLU website from “JOINT STATEMENT OF CURRENT LAW ON RELIGION IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS” which is over 20 years old:
            Teaching About Religion

            5. Students may be taught about religion, but public schools may not teach religion. As the U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly said, “[i]t might well be said that one’s education is not complete without a study of comparative religion, or the history of religion and its relationship to the advancement of civilization.” It would be difficult to teach art, music, literature and most social studies without considering religious influences.

            The history of religion, comparative religion, the Bible (or other scripture)-as-literature (either as a separate course or within some other existing course), are all permissible public school subjects. It is both permissible and desirable to teach objectively about the role of religion in the history of the United States and other countries. One can teach that the Pilgrims came to this country with a particular religious vision, that Catholics and others have been subject to persecution or that many of those participating in the abolitionist, women’s suffrage and civil rights movements had religious motivations.

            The ACLU is one of the signatories of the above joint statement.

            The FFRF website has a 1995 President Clinton memorandum that states:
            Teaching about religion: Public schools may not provide religious instruction, but they may teach about religion, including the Bible or other scripture: the history of religion, comparative religion, the Bible (or other scripture)-as-literature, and the role of religion in the history of the United States and other countries all are permissible public school subjects. Similarly, it is permissible to consider religious influences on art, music, literature, and social studies. Although public schools may teach about religious holidays, including their religious aspects, and may celebrate the secular aspects of holidays, schools may not observe holidays as religious events or promote such observance by students.

            Also, from FFRF:
            “These assignments are not part of a study of comparative religion or the history of religion, but rather provide lessons in Christianity,” FFRF Legal Fellow Ryan Jayne wrote in early March.

            Thus distinguishing between the legal “study of comparative religion or the history of religion” versus the illegal “lessons in Christianity”.

          • Reason2012

            Police officers don’t own the police cars they use.

            The department does. When atheists are putting their life on the line to defend human life as more important than the life of animals, they can put “we are just fish” on their cars. But since they rarely do (to be honest I have yet to find a case where a police officer ever says it), it’s not an issue. Sorry you hate Christians putting their life on the line to protect the lives of everyone, including atheists.

            Here you’re simply wrong and pretending to read minds.

            They believe human beings are just another animal in the evolutionary chain, “proving” human beings are not special. Read up on what it is you believe in.

            5. Students may be taught about religion, but public schools may not teach religion.

            Please cite where in the Constitution we do not have freedom of religion except where atheists give their permission.

            The history of religion, comparative religion, the Bible (or other scripture)-as-literature (either as a separate course or within some other existing course), are all permissible public school subjects.

            Yes, they are. But FFRF and ACLU threaten to sue when such classes about the bible are offered. Google atheists complain bible history class.

            I didn’t ask you to tell us what ACLU or FFRF claims Please show a school teaching a Bible history class that the FFRF or ACLU knows about and approves.

            You won’t find one.

            But you’ll find many where islam is taught and the list is growing.

            Facts betray their claims.

  • Dan R Francis

    Well, Kids. Since some of you apparently aren’t intelligent enough to understand some things, let me spell it out for you.

    YOUR FAIRY TALE IS NOT THE LAW OF THIS LAND.
    The CONSTITUTION is the law of this land.
    And, no. You’re NOT special. You’re NOT above the law.

    Grow the fuck up or leave for a theocracy.

    • Jason Todd

      Flagged for profanity.

    • Amos Moses – He>i

      TOS violation ………..

  • Reason2012

    “Atheists” think it’s fine that islam gets promoted in our public schools more and more while pretending to be atheists against religion, which shows they’re really pro-islam, anti-Christian activists.

    • Goojee Too

      That’s simply not true and you know it. Atheists are non-believers of all walks of life who simply reject all gods including allah.

      • Robert

        That’s not true atheists believe in the God of self and worship at that alter. Until some a few realize how useless the God of self can be in really tough times.

        • Goojee Too

          were this true, could you blame them? your God’s useless at all times.

      • Reason2012

        I didn’t say all atheists. I said atheist activists. Most are pro-islam activists pretending to be atheists. How can you tell? Because these atheist activists can’t show where they are speaking out against islam being taught to all kids in schools with even greater frequency as the years go by.

        Speaking of which, for example, please cite your posts in articles that are making it clear islam is being taught in public schools.

    • Grace Kim Kwon

      Western athesits hate only the Christianity. They’d have no idea if the police vehicles carry the words of other religions.

      • Etranger

        Western atheists don’t even ‘hate’ Christianity. Requesting that it not be part of the police department has nothing to do with hate. Spreading lies about atheists…now that gets into the realm of hate (not to mention sin according to Christian theology).

        • Grace Kim Kwon

          Read Psalm 14. Atheists are evil. It’s a fact and not hate. Westerners have no idea about atheists’ brutal reign because the West never suffered. The world did. Christians created the USA with Christian ideals that American police should remember and honor the Christians more than they honor US military. Creators are greater than the defenders.

          • Etranger

            Your babbling doesn’t help your case at all. A coherent, fact-based comment could potentially help you. Although it seems you little grasp of atheism and the history of the USA.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            Atheists only kill and destroy. Americans are naive; they never suffered any tyranny. Read Psalm 14 and John 10 and study the world history, not just US history.

          • Etranger

            More banking. But slightly more coherent.

          • Grace Kim Kwon

            You must repent of your evil unbelief to be saved.

    • The Former Christian

      Lies. Islam and Christianity are two sides of the same coin. We want NEITHER taught in any government funded school. Keep your fairytales in your homes. The truth is that people like you are no different from the Islamists you claim to hate! Not only do you want the government brainwashing American kids with your Bronze-Age fairytale, but you want the rest of us to have to live by its rules. Why don’t you just move to Russia if you’re opposed to democracy?

      • Sven

        Lonely single women, eh?

        • Robert

          The only reason your not facing east to Mecca and allowed to talk like you do is there is a lot of christians here . if we were gone you would be beat
          Like a ornary old ugly work mule. And if you sassed them you would get beat down some or just killed.

          • bfw314159

            You fail spelling and logic.

      • Jason Todd

        Islam and Christianity are two sides of the same coin. We want NEITHER taught in any government funded school.

        Prove it, then.

        The truth is that people like you are no different from the Islamists you claim to hate!

        Proof you have no idea what you are talking about, and you were never a Christian.

        Why don’t you just move to Russia if you’re opposed to democracy?

        Why not move to Syria, where it is alleged some 250 Christian children were kneaded and baked?

        Let the rest of us Americans live in freedom

        What is freedom to you?

        • bfw314159

          Prove it, then.

          How about listing some of those public schools where you claim Islam is “being openly taught”. That would be a good start.

          • Nedd Kareiva

            San Diego is one, has recently been in the news, look it up.

          • bfw314159

            That’s not the name of a public school. YOU look it up.

          • Reason2012

            They don’t want to “look it up” – they’re pro-islam activists pretending to be atheists and make it clear they’re pro-islam by how they go out of their way to lie and deceive to defend_islam being taught in more and more schools.

      • Reason2012

        Islam and Christianity are two sides of the same coin.

        False – they reject Christ and Christ points out if any reject Him as the only begotten Son of God, they are still dead in their tressspasses and sins.

        We want NEITHER taught in any government funded school.

        That sounds nice. Now cite posts from you on articles where it’s shown islam is being taught in schools and the FFRF is doing nothing. Whenever I ask, “atheist” activists never can show a single such post.

        The truth is that people like you are no different from the Islamists you claim to hate!

        False. In 13 countries run by islam: those into homosexuality are_killed almost daily, many by being dropped off buildings. Please show a Christian whose laws are based on God’s law and not shariah law where those into homosexuality are_killed almost daily and dropped off buildings.

        But you prove my point: you claim to be atheist, but you defend islam and attack Christianity as supposedly being the same.

        Not only do you want the government brainwashing American kids with your Bronze-Age morality, but you want the rest of us to have to live by its rules too.

        Why is not_killing so difficult? 60 MILLION sons/daughters slaughtered by their own parents in the past few decades alone in the name of “I don’t REALLY believe in God” or “we came from bacteria anyway – I see no difference”. You seem to not mind American kids brainwashed with the “Modern-Age” lie of “we’re no better than rats”. Utter hypocrisy on every front.

        Why don’t you just move to Russia if you’re opposed to democracy?

        Censoring Christianity, indoctrinating all kids that they’re no better than rats, and supporting_islam that slaughters lgbt is not “democracy”.

        It’s too bad that it would “make life awful” for anti-Christian people to not slaughter their own children to avoid inconvenience. They even want everyone else to pay for it. So yes, Christians have the right to stand up to this hateful indoctrination and genocide.

    • Tangent002

      In my son’s Human Geography class, they had a field trip to a mosque. They also visited a cathedral and a synagogue.

      • Etranger

        Yeah, most schools, if they do a religious segment in class, treat all religions similarly and study them objectively. As it should be.

      • Reason2012

        FFRF threatens on any such trip to a Christian church -feel free to cite online proving this trip actually took place. But thank you for admitting they are taken to mosques.

        • bfw314159

          FFRF threatens on any such trip to a Christian church -feel free to cite online proving this trip actually took place.

          Feel free to cite online proving that the FFRF threatens on any such trip to a Christian church.

          • Reason2012

            You’re claiming the FFRF never sends threatening letters to schools for a teacher having a bible verse in room, a poster on a wall, or mentioning God, let alone taking a trip to a Christian church? is that what you’re claiming? Out of curiosity, what is it you think FFRF does if they supposedly do not do this?

          • bfw314159

            You’re claiming the FFRF never sends threatening letters to schools for a teacher having a bible verse in room, a poster on a wall, or mentioning God,

            Oh, sure they do. Teachers can’t push their religion on other people’s children, that violates the religious rights of the students and their parents.

            let alone taking a trip to a Christian church?

            That depends — is it part of, say, a comparative religious class as Tangent002 described, where they visited a mosque, cathedral and a synagogue? Or is it going to a Christian church to sing Christian songs?

            is that what you’re claiming?

            I asked YOU to cite an FFRF complaint over such an educational field trip to a church. Got one?

          • Reason2012

            Oh, sure they do. Teachers can’t push their religion on other people’s children, that violates the religious rights of the students and their parents.

            Precisely my point. When it’s Christians doi8ng any of these things, FFRF and ACLU threaten to take them to court as it’s “pushing their religion”. When islamists do it, nothing is done.

            Personally, I don’t think they should be taking a trip to any church. But Christians are threatened for having a Bible out, mentioning Christ, or even talking about God when someone asks them. But meanwhile islam is in the curriculum, they take trips to mosques, and FFRF and ACLU does nothing, proving they’re really pro-islam, anti-Christian.

            I asked YOU to cite an FFRF complaint over such an educational field trip to a church. Got one?

            Actually I don’t know of any schools trying to take kids to Christians churches – nor do I think they should – you got one that a school takes them to a Christian church? You got one where it was attempted and FFRF did nothing? Of course not.

            Meanwhile they are taken to mosque, have even been asked to dress up in muslim clothes, and FFRF and ACLU does nothing.

            But thank you for showing everyone else how you defend the indoctrination via islam by calling it “education”, yet when Christians do far less it’s “pushing their religion”.

        • Tangent002

          I signed the field trip form. However, I neglected to make a copy for the sake of future Disqus conversations.

          • Reason2012

            So in other words it’s a complete secret that only your son’s class is aware of and no other class has ever gone on such a trip in that school that anyone else in the world can verify, ever. Ok, thank you.

    • Etranger

      There is definitely no evidence that atheist are fine with Islam getting promoted in schools. Atheists want no religion in schools. Which makes sense and should be supported by religious people as well. Religious people should want their children to learn what they believe at their church. Otherwise, no telling what the school might teach.

      • Jason Todd

        Google is your friend.

        • bfw314159

          Yes, it is, but I can only find atheists who stop unconstitutional acts, or point out some acts that are perfectly legal. Do you have an actual example?

        • Etranger

          Yes it is indeed!

          • Jason Todd

            No, idiot. Islam is being openly taught and accommodated in public schools. With not so much as a peep from the FFRF or anyone else.

          • bfw314159

            What schools? What are the names of some of these schools?

            The only one I know of was Tarek ibn Ziyad Academy, which was sued by the MN ACLU, lost, and went bankrupt.

          • Etranger

            What do you mean by “openly taught”? As part of history and religious studies classes? Good. Right along with Christianity and such.

          • Jason Todd

            What do you mean by “openly taught”?

            Don’t play games with me. You know exactly what I mean.

          • Etranger

            I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. you’re wrong then

          • Jason Todd

            You are a liar, applying a double standard in favor of Islam.

          • Etranger

            You make no sense. Prove it with some examples. But to save you time, you won’t find any. The Fffr would never support teaching of any religious beliefs aimed at conversion. No public school is doing that. You do understand the difference between learning about religions and proselytizing right? Oh maybe you don’t since you are a fundamentalist Christian.

          • Jason Todd

            “Lawsuit: Public school forced my child to convert to Islam,” Fox News, Jan. 29, 2016

            “Moms Raise Concerns About Teaching of Islam at NJ Middle School,” Fox News, Feb. 20, 2017

            “HIGH SCHOOL ‘MUSLIM PRAYER ROOM’ CHALLENGED,” WorldNetDaily, March 21, 2017

            “Saratoga County high school setting aside classrooms for Muslim prayer,” cbs6albany, May 24, 2017

            Now that you have been proven wrong at least and a liar the most, maybe you’ll admit it or just shut up.

          • Etranger

            You do need to read better sources. But yes, I am familiar with all those cases. The prayer cases are funny because Christians claim they are not allowed to pray in school all the time even though they are (just can’t be teacher led) and now they want to deny someone else the right to pray!

            The teaching islam cases are sad because, again, the students were learning about Islam and the parents weren’t smart enough to distinguish between learning (you know, educating oneself) and indoctrination/proselytizing. They were upset because they kids had to learn the five pillars of Islam. That would be like me being upset that my student had to learn the beatitudes. I would look like just as much an idiot as these parents do. Will be interesting to see the outcome of the cases.

          • Jason Todd

            And if we were talking about Christianity, you and the FFRF would be all over it. You know it, I know it. Drop the double standard and admit you are just another bigot.

          • Etranger

            Not at all. In fact, there have been legitimate complaints about how Islam has been taught in certain school districts that were egregious abuses of freedom of religion. Guess who fought against it? The FFRF! (Yes, atheists…) The FFRF also objected to Muslim prayer rooms at the University of Iowa because there was already a multi-denominational chapel on campus. So, you initial argument about atheists fails. There is no double standard. You are clearly ‘just another bigot’. (Not only anti-muslim but anti-atheist!).

          • Jason Todd

            1) There is a double standard. Your attempt at some kind of upmanship or moral high ground doesn’t change that.

            2) This is not about me. Period.

          • Etranger

            Well there can’t be a double standard if atheists raise a stink for both religions when they cross the line.

          • Etranger

            Remember….google is your friend 🙂

          • bfw314159

            And if we were talking about Christianity, you and the FFRF would be all over it.

            There’s no public school in the US that teaches about Islam that doesn’t also teach about Christianity.

      • Reason2012

        Sure there is. Google public school islam, read all about the outrage that kids are taught islam and even taken to mosques and read the complete absence of atheists doing or saying anything about it.

        • Etranger

          No the ffrf has filed suit against the schools who have sought to make students follow the religion. Learning about Islam? No problem. Visiting a mosque. No problem either.

          • Reason2012

            Thank you for proving how “atheists” will defend islam being taught in school, but not the exact same things being taught about Christianity in schools. Their behavior is identical to pro-islam, anti-Christian activists. Total coincidence I’m sure.

  • Chris Clayton

    About 25% of Americans, and 30% of those under 30, now cite “None of the Above” when asked their religion. The growing “nones” support keeping government neutral with regard to religion.

    This means no prayer in school (Supreme Court, 1962, Engel v. Vitale). No posting of the Ten Commandments in classrooms (Supreme Court, 1980, Stone v. Graham, when the court ruled 5-2 that the Ten Commandments “had no secular legislative purpose” and were “plainly religious in nature.”

    It is time to follow these rulings and leave church business to the churches and let those without religion to live in a secular world when it come so official government business.

    • Denny

      You fcked any little boys today, fairy?

    • bfw314159

      I agree, though you need to write “no government-sanctioned prayer in school”. Students can pray.

      • Chris Clayton

        Good point.

        I would recommend studying, but I am sure that some students turn to prayer in hopes of getting a passing grade. In that case, it is critical that prayer is not orchestrated by the teacher. “Johnny will now lead the class in prayer” is just as unconstitutional as having the teacher lead the prayer.

        • Ambulance Chaser

          Yep. Santa Fe ISD v. Doe.

    • Jason Todd

      About 25% of Americans, and 30% of those under 30, now cite “None of the Above” when asked their religion. The growing “nones” support keeping government neutral with regard to religion.

      Source.

      This means no prayer in school (Supreme Court, 1962, Engel v. Vitale). No posting of the Ten Commandments in classrooms (Supreme Court, 1980, Stone v. Graham, when the court ruled 5-2 that the Ten Commandments “had no secular legislative purpose” and were “plainly religious in nature.”

      False. First Amendment protects religious speech, even in the classroom. Read it.

      • Cady555

        Yes. Students have a first amendment right to pray (or not pray), to select religious material (or not) for personal reading, and to form and join clubs reflecting their religious beliefs (or lack thereof).

        This means school employees cannot lead prayers or cause prayers to be led. School employees cannot favor one religious view or disfavor another.

        Every student gets to attend their every event at their own high school without being led in prayer to someone else’s god. Every student gets to attend their own graduation without being told that they must adopt someone else’s religion to be a productive member of society.

        Why is it so hard for Christians to treat others as they would want to be treated?

        • Jason Todd

          This means school employees cannot lead prayers or cause prayers to be led.

          Wait. School employees cannot do that because students have options? What kind of logic is that?

          Every student gets to attend their every event at their own high school without being led in prayer to someone else’s god. Every student gets to attend their own graduation without being told that they must adopt someone else’s religion to be a productive member of society.

          And what about what you want? Someone might be offended because someone mentions God or Jesus Christ, therefore no one should be able to?

          Aren’t you forcing your will onto everyone else, making you a hypocrite?

          As you already admitted, the First Amendment gives people options. You don’t want to pray? Then don’t. And leave those who do alone.

          • bfw314159

            School employees cannot do that because students have options?

            No, it’s because school employees are government employees and would be violating the establishment clause. I have this odd idea that parents get to decide what kind of religious upbringing their own children receive, NOT some random school official. Who would want that?

            Aren’t you forcing your will onto everyone else, making you a hypocrite?

            No, that’s called making graduation open to everyone. Read Lee v. Weisman.

            By the way, do you have the names of any of those public schools that teach Islam yet?

          • Cady555

            I notice you did not respond to my statement School employees cannot favor one religious view or disfavor another.

            This is the whole point.

            When I was a Southern Baptist, I was taught that prayers to saints were idolatry and a sin against God.

            Imagine if the principal of a school.led prayers to the Virgin Mary over the intercom every morning. This would violate the freedom of religion of every Southern Baptist student by causing them to participate in prayer. (Prayer is talking to god in your head. Listening to a prayer is praying.)

            Catholic students can talk to saints in their head all day long. But school employees cannot lead prayers or allow school loud spakers to be used to make everybody pray.

            Christians take it for granted b that they will not have to listen to someone else’s prayers at school functions. Why cant you see that everyone else wants tbe same respect?

          • Jason Todd

            This is the whole point.

            No, this is your whole point:

            Your freedom of religion stops where the next guy’s freedom begins.

            Apparently your definition of “freedom of religion” differs greatly with how the US Constitution defines it.

            China, Cuba, heck, even North Korea. Go there, stay there. Or get used to the fact this is not a communist country and keep your mouth shut.

          • Cady555

            No. My understanding of Freedom of Religion is entirely how the US Constitution defines it, as evidenced by numerous Supreme Court rulings.

            Did you bother to read anything i wrote? Students have religious rights. These rights are protected by ensuring nobody – nobody – uses government authority to influence the religious belief or practice of someone else.

            Religious freedom is broad, but does not include “I get to make other people pray to my preferred deity.”

            The government cannot favor one reigion over another or religion over non religion.

            Nobody can use government authority to cause other people to take part in religious exercise. School officials cannot lead students in prayer. This protects your religious freedom and mine.

          • Jason Todd

            The First Amendment guarantees free speech and freedom of religion.

            Men in black robes said the exact opposite is true.

            Godless organizations such as the FFRF have abused these unconstitutional rulings in their pursuit to remove God from society.

            I have said you don’t believe in freedom of religion. You haven’t denied it. And what other conclusion could one draw from what you have already said?

            You get blocked now. Bye-bye.

  • Nedd Kareiva

    Regardless of one’s opinion, doesn’t it strike you odd (particularly if you’re an average individual that doesn’t go about being offended by every itty bitty thing you see) that an atheist group in Madison, WI, is bothered by an Alabama rural police dept’s off-duty business? Who can seriously argue that FFRF’s goal is to sanitize America from anything remotely Judeo-Christian?

    In this case, according to this article and the FFRF, these troublemakers don’t even have a plaintiff they are legally contracting with. Perhaps they can’t find any Alabamans who are offended by this city’s activities, despite its claims in its letter that they have Alabamans among their 29,000 members. But regardless, the case should be dismissed out of hand since FFRF cannot prove any tangible proof of harm, let alone that no plaintiff is willing to represent the God hating legal team.

    Good grief, time these birds be countersued and put out of existence!

    And for all the God & Christianity haters posting, what do you care what goes on in Wetumpka, AL? I daresay none of you ever heard of this town until this piece appeared.

    • bfw314159

      Who can seriously argue that FFRF’s goal is to sanitize America from anything remotely Judeo-Christian?

      The FFRF is in favor of having the government follow the first amendment’s prohibition against establishment of religion.

      But regardless, the case should be dismissed out of hand since FFRF cannot prove any tangible proof of harm

      Government violating the first amendment is sufficient.

      Good grief, time these birds be countersued and put out of existence!

      You can’t just sue the FFRF because you don’t like them, you need a legal reason. What are your grounds for a lawsuit?

      • Oboehner

        So which religion did they establish? And why is the atheist religion so special?

        “You can’t just sue the FFRF because you don’t like them, you need a legal reason. What are your grounds for a lawsuit?”

        “Government violating the first amendment is sufficient.” Establishing atheism.

        • bfw314159

          So which religion did they establish?

          The first amendment bars “establishment of religion”, not just “establishment of A religion”.

          And why is the atheist religion so special?

          Atheism isn’t a religion, and removing establishment violations doesn’t promote atheism.

          Establishing atheism.

          They aren’t, and since the FFRF is a private group, they can’t be in violation of establishment — only the government can be.

          • Oboehner

            So Congress made a law establishing religion in Alabama?
            Atheism is most assuredly a religion, and yes it is an attempt to replace one religion for another.

          • bfw314159

            So Congress made a law establishing religion in Alabama?

            No.

            Atheism is most assuredly a religion

            No, it isn’t, just as theism isn’t a religion.

            and yes it is an attempt to replace one religion for another.

            Removing an unconstitutional establishment of religion is required and makes it neutral.

  • Bezukhov

    People with guns spreading their faith? The optics is all wrong. Who would dare to say “No!” to their blandishments?