Southern Baptist-Owned LifeWay Stores Won’t Pull ‘Message Bible’ After Author’s ‘Gay Marriage’ Retraction

Photo Credit: Clappstar

LifeWay Christian Stores, which is owned by the Southern Baptist Convention, says that it will not pull the “Message Bible” or any of Eugene Peterson’s other writings now that the author has retracted his initial statements about same-sex “marriage.”

“Based upon Eugene Peterson’s retraction, we will continue to sell his resources,” Carol Pipes, the director of corporate communications for LifeWay Christian Resources, told Christian News Network in a statement.

The company had said last week that if Peterson indeeds supports homosexual “marriage,” as he seemingly indicated in his recent interview with Religion News Service, it would pull his products.

“LifeWay only carries resources in our stores by authors who hold to the biblical view of marriage,” it advised. “We are attempting to confirm with Eugene Peterson or his representatives that his recent interview on same-sex marriage accurately reflects his views. If he confirms he does not hold to a biblical view of marriage, LifeWay will no longer sell any resources by him, including The Message.”

LifeWay had pulled Jen Hatmaker’s books after she came out in support of same-sex nuptials last year.

As previously reported, on Wednesday, Religion News Service released an article entitled “Eugene Peterson on Changing His Mind About Same-Sex Issues and Marriage.”

“I wouldn’t have said this 20 years ago, but now I know a lot of people who are gay and lesbian and they seem to have as good a spiritual life as I do. I think that kind of debate about lesbians and gays might be over,” he told reporter Jonathan Merritt.

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Peterson, who led Christ Our King Presbyterian Church in Maryland for nearly 30 years before his retirement in 1991, explained that he never made “a big deal” about homosexuality in his congregation, and that he was pleased at how his members never questioned the allowance of an openly homosexual man to serve as music director.

The man had applied for the position as the former worship leader left her post at the same time Peterson retired.

“When he found out about the opening, he showed up in church one day and stood up and said, ‘I’d like to apply for the job of music director here, and I’m gay,’” Peterson recalled. “We didn’t have any gay people in the whole congregation. Well, some of them weren’t openly gay. But I was so pleased with the congregation. Nobody made any questions about it. And he was a really good musician.”

He said that he thinks that the Church is in a “transition for the best” on the issue, and doesn’t see it as a matter of right and wrong.

“People who disapprove of it, they’ll probably just go to another church,” Peterson stated. “So we’re in a transition and I think it’s a transition for the best, for the good. I don’t think it’s something that you can parade, but it’s not a right or wrong thing as far as I’m concerned.”

When asked if he would be willing to officiate a same-sex ceremony for “Christians of good faith” if he were pastoring today, Peterson replied in the affirmative.

However, the following day after the interview was published, Peterson, 84, walked back his answer, remarking that he had been put on the spot with a hypothetical question.

“To clarify, I affirm a biblical view of marriage: one man to one woman. I affirm a biblical view of everything,” he said in a statement. “I’ve never performed a same-sex wedding. I’ve never been asked and, frankly, I hope I never am asked.”

“This reporter, however, asked a hypothetical question: if I were pastoring today and if a gay couple were Christians of good faith and if they asked me to perform their wedding ceremony—if, if, if. Pastors don’t have the luxury of indulging in hypotheticals,” Peterson explained. “And to be honest, no is not a word I typically use.”

He acknowledged that he did respond yes (that he would officiate a same-sex ceremony) during the interview, but said he only did so “in the moment” and felt the need to retract his answer upon praying about the matter.

“When put on the spot by this particular interviewer, I said yes in the moment. But on further reflection and prayer, I would like to retract that,” Peterson said. “That’s not something I would do out of respect to the congregation, the larger church body, and the historic biblical Christian view and teaching on marriage. That said, I would still love such a couple as their pastor. They’d be welcome at my table, along with everybody else.”

The former author and speaker also softened his remark that homosexuals “seem to have as good a spiritual life as I do.”

“When I told this reporter that there are gay and lesbian people who ‘seem to have as good a spiritual life as I do,’ I meant it. But then again, the goodness of a spiritual life is functionally irrelevant in the grand scheme of things,” Peterson stated.

“We are saved by faith through grace that operates independent of our resolve or our good behavior. It operates by the hand of a loving God who desires for us to live in grace and truth and who does not tire of turning us toward both grace and truth,” he said.

Peterson outlined that there have been homosexuals in the various venues where he has served and noted that his “responsibility to them was the work of a pastor—to visit them, to care for their souls, to pray for them, to preach the Scriptures for them.”

He said that he regretted the problems caused by the matter, pointing again to the question being hypothetical.

“I regret the confusion and bombast that this interview has fostered,” Peterson stated. “It has never been my intention to participate in the kind of lightless heat that such abstract, hypothetical comments and conversations generate.”

As previously reported, Peterson’s “Message Bible” does not specifically mention homosexuality, but instead reads as its paraphrase for 1 Corinthians 6:9, “Unjust people who don’t care about God will not be joining in His kingdom. Those who use and abuse each other, use and abuse sex, use and abuse the earth and everything in it, don’t qualify as citizens in God’s kingdom.”


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  • cadcoke5

    So, before he retracted the statement, he said that it is OK to bless homosexual unions. This is a clearly defined topic in scripture. If he has a hard time figuring it out, his ability to discern scripture is very much in question.
    I understand Lifeway wanting to to directly to the person, before pulling his work from their shelves. But the 3rd party quotes show a very poor discernment of scripture. If true, his work certainly should be pulled from any store that wants to sell the scriptures.

    • BravesFan

      Lifeway still carries Jesus Calling, so their discernment is questionable too. 🙁

      • cadcoke5

        I just looked up some commentary on “Jesus Calling”, and do see some valid reasons to reject it. But, that book has the sort of issues that take a more in-depth reading of the book to really identify the problems. Whereas Mr. Peterson’s statement about affirming gay marriage is a pretty easy thing to evaluate. His quick turn-around is good, but warrants futher investigation. On the other hand, a quick gloss over of the book would not necessarily identify significant problems. So, I can give Lifeways a pass on this one.

        Perhaps you know the book well enough, that a letter from you to Lifeway may be in order.

        • YCNAN

          HIS QUICK TURN AROUND DOES NOT WARRANT ONE MORE SECOND. WHEN EVIL BECOMES GOOD, WE HAVE A PROBLEM AND THIS WOLF HAS DECEIVED MANY OVER THE YEARS AND HAS FINALLY REVEALED WHO HE IS AND THEN REVERSED IT WHEN LIFEWAY MOVED TO LOWER HIS BANK ACCOUNT. AWAKE, O SLEEPER!

      • trish

        Excellent point!!!

  • BuckeyePhysicist

    Why would someone want a paraphrase of the Bible instead of the real thing?

    • Sisyphus

      There are >50 “versions” of the Bible written in the English language, which is “the real thing”?

      • http://HisPlaceDanville.com Stephen Anderson

        The KJV has been the standard English bible for 400 years and is still the best. It remains the most faithful to the original Greek text.

        • Sisyphus

          And you know this how? Do you read Greek? What about the parts written in Hebrew or Aramaic? Didn’t the King’s appointed scholars also translate the Apocrypha?

          • Oboehner

            The Apocrypha? That is not part of the Bible.

          • Sisyphus

            The scholars of the early 17th century employed by King James I included the 14 books of the Apocrypha( Latin Vulgate) in their translated works . Perhaps, further evidence the modern Christian Bible is subjective in nature possessing limited connection to objective reality.

          • trish

            The Dead Sea Scrolls show a stunning level of accuracy for today’s translations, over the millennia. You sir, are in over your head on this thread.

          • Sisyphus

            According to whom?

          • Oboehner

            Catholic scholars in an attempt to justify praying for the dead. It is an interesting historical piece, nothing more.

            Modern “translations” possess limited connection to objective reality, having to change a sizable percentage of the text to gain copyright.

          • Horst Grzbshky

            What’s it like to be such an asshole?

          • Sisyphus

            Are you suggesting, copyright and intellectual property laws are at the root of modifying the word of God? AKA the work of Satan? Interesting take.

          • Oboehner

            I believe the 11th commandment is: Thou shalt not feed the trolls.
            Bye.

          • Sisyphus

            Au Revoir

          • zampogna

            There are seven entire books which were ripped out by heretics.

          • Oboehner

            Added by heretics.

          • zampogna

            They were included from the beginning and separated by Martin Luther and removed completely by fanatics. Basic history 101.

          • Oboehner

            Basic revisionist catholic history.

          • zampogna

            …right. Which is why MARTIN LUTHER separated the books. Or is he a revisionist too?

          • Oboehner

            The Apocrypha was NOT included in the Hebrew scriptures (which is now referred to as the Old Testament) that Christ himself used and quoted. It was added later by the RCC in an attempt to justify their unbiblical teachings. It was rejected by the Jews. It is never quoted in the New Testament at all as scripture. It is not on any early canonical lists. It was also regarded as uninspired by prominent leaders of the early church.

          • zampogna

            Nope, it was right there from the beginning at the Council of Nicea.

          • Oboehner

            Nope, Council of Nicea was catholic.

          • zampogna

            I’ll give you a chance to change that rather bizarre answer before proceeding.

          • Oboehner

            Now you want me to revise history?

          • zampogna

            You’re pretty good at doing that on your own already. Catholic hate is in bad taste by the way.

          • Oboehner

            The First Council of Nicaea was a council of Catholic bishops convened in the Bithynian city of Nicaea by the Roman Emperor Constantine I
            in AD 325.
            Catholic pity isn’t, pity that they are deceived.

          • zampogna

            (Shrug) it is universally accepted history, and by almost all faiths (excluding the science denying and revisionist history ones). Like yours.

          • Oboehner

            Science denying, LOL nice copout especially for those who have nothing but empty “science” claims. “by almost all faiths” Speaking of empty claims…

          • zampogna

            What are you arguing with me for? If you’re going to fight accepted science, you should be walking around outside with sandwich boards on, or writing letters to the government.

          • Oboehner

            Popular opinion does not a fact make.

          • zampogna

            Couldn’t agree more.

          • Oboehner

            Apparently not, since you like to cite it.

          • zampogna

            Yet another who cannot tell the difference between consulting facts and appealing to authority. eg: Bible.

          • Oboehner

            Facts? What facts? You never give any.

          • zampogna

            Evolution is a fact. The existence of a 4.6 billion year old earth is a fact. Fossils, dinosaurs, and the skeletons of prehistoric men are facts. If you disagree, you are a science denier.

          • Oboehner

            You post is BS – fact. If you disagree you are a religious zealot and a science liar.

            The existence of a 4.6 billion year old earth is a religious belief, no one was there and dating methods are a sad joke based on assumption, speculation and plain old religious belief.
            Fossils are merely dead things, dinosaurs existed (the Bible speaks of them), no proof for your religion there. Skeletons of “prehistoric” man, imagination and fraud.
            NO science to deny here, just blind faith.

          • zampogna

            You have no facts. You have a holy book and blind faith, and that’s all you’ve got. You put zero value in science, in data, in proof, in tests. The joke here is yourself, Mr. 6000 year old earth.

          • GregorHodge

            You know, smug and stupid is a lethal combination. When someone is as desperately wrong as you are, digging in your heels like a child looks really pathetic. You have nothing to sneer about because you’re a total idiot.

          • Oboehner

            ZZZzzzzz….

            Translation: “I have nothing so I’ll just wallow in my religious belief and keep repeating – ‘someone is as desperately wrong as you are, digging in your heels like a child looks really pathetic. You have nothing to sneer about because you’re a total idiot’ while I throw a tantrum”.

          • Robert

            The kJV has more of Martin Luther’s translation work than people think. by way of the famous fellow who was murdered and work stolen to produce the kJV. The KJV is not Just a faithful Bible it has a very intriguing story about how it came about.

          • Sisyphus

            The Luther Bible was translated into German and published in 1534, 70 years before James I commissioned his version. Luther’s translation also included the Apocrypha, and Luther added words that are not found in the Greek. (E.g. Romans 3:28 “alone” or the German”allien”) Further evidence what you read today is a subjective account of original sources.

          • Robert

            Luther’s translated the bible into German he added the word the German language required so it would say what the biblical language said. But in German. Actually it was not the word Alone. Project Wittenberg has what Luther said to those in then roman church about their ignorance on translating into another language .
            It was Luther that separated the apocrypha from the pages of the bible . though he still left it in the same binding he clearly noted it was not
            scriptures because in the bible itself Jesus and the profits and apostles never even mentioned the apocrypha let alone calling it scripture. Now about king James version. I said they stole Tyndale translation work he was murdered long before . Luther’s English connection is still in print if you want to know how his translation work is also there. Tyndale had Luther’s permission. but kng James men didn’t have Tyndale his permission.

          • Sisyphus

            Luther….the original heretic

          • Sisyphus

            Luther’s work is still a translation therefore subjective. He simply spawned Catholic lite, (Lutheranism)

          • Robert

            Luther returned the church to the true teachings of the bible from which they had drifted through the centuries. That were saved by Gods grace through faith in Jesus his merits alone. What exactly is this grace of God its purest form?? Jesus!

          • Sisyphus

            Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist…the list continues ad nauseum. All of it, thought control for those in power to perpetuate their oppression.

          • Robert

            Christian newsnet

        • Robert

          Its very faithful to the original languages. So its a great one to use. ALSO check out the. Evangelical Heritage Version . published by N P H . n e t

      • trish

        Peterson himself doesn’t pretend it’s a translation! He calls it a paraphrase, which it certainly is not. A paraphrase doesn’t change the meaning of the original. The Message is a hot mess.

        • Sisyphus

          All translations contain some level of paraphrasing as languages do not correlate exactly with one another.

    • trish

      As a “paraphrase” it’s an epic fail! What he actually did is subtract and add to concepts in the Bible. Put another way, Eugene re-wrote the Bible. It’s heresy.

  • FoJC

    He made a clear statement supporting the growing heresy that homosexuality is okay with God, and pretty much a non-issue with Christians he “pastored”. Then makes a lukewarm retraction, avoiding some of the things he actually said about it. Somehow, those claiming to be Christian can’t see the obvious financial politics involved here, because they practice them too.

    Follow Jesus, find Wisdom.

    • BravesFan

      SBC is headed in the wrong direction.

    • Coach

      Amen, anyone who puts “may the god of green hope fill you with hope” in a so-called translation, proves whom he worships and it’s not God.

    • LRBJR

      I fully agree.. it is all about money.. He is a Heretic!! Next he will be coming out…wait and see..

    • YCNAN

      PETERSON IS A WOLF IN SHEEP’S CLOTHING WHO SPOKE WHAT HE BELIEVES ABOUT SAME SEX MARRIAGE BUT WHEN THE BOOM WAS LOWERED HE PANICKED ABOUT HIS INCOME BEING EFFECTED. FOLLOW THE MONEY.

      • FoJC

        OKAY!

  • michael louwe

    [“He acknowledged that he did respond yes (that he would officiate a
    same-sex ceremony) during the interview, but said he only did so “in the
    moment” and felt the need to retract his answer upon praying about the
    matter.

    “When put on the spot by this particular interviewer, I said yes in
    the moment. But on further reflection and prayer, I would like to
    retract that,” Peterson said. “That’s not something I would do out of
    respect to the congregation, the larger church body, and the historic
    biblical Christian view and teaching on marriage. That said, I would
    still love such a couple as their pastor. They’d be welcome at my table,
    along with everybody else.”

    Peterson outlined that there have been homosexuals in the various venues
    where he has served and noted that his “responsibility to them was the
    work of a pastor—to visit them, to care for their souls, to pray for
    them, to preach the Scriptures for them.””]
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _

    1COR.5: = Immorality Must Be Judged

    9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous,
    or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But
    now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

    12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”[d]

    • cadcoke5

      It looks like Mr. Peterson has rejected God’s word, and in particular, the commands you quoted above. He had the responsibility as a pastor to lead the homosexual individuals to repentance, or to initiate church discipline and put them out of the congregation.

      And on the specific topic of Peterson’s “The Message” bible, just on the basis of his modification to 1 Corinthians 6:9, I think it should be excluded, regardless of what Mr. Peterson says now. I hope Lifeway will see this for what it is and get rid of that book.

  • michael louwe

    [“As previously reported, Peterson’s “Message Bible” does not specifically mention homosexuality, but instead reads as its paraphrase for 1 Corinthians 6:9, “Unjust people who don’t care about God will not be joining in His kingdom. Those who use and abuse each other, use and abuse sex, use and abuse the earth and everything in it, don’t qualify as citizens in God’s kingdom.””]
    .
    A watered down “Message Bible” which condones and abets sinners/evildoers/law-breakers in Churches, as mentioned in …….
    MATTHEW.7: = I Never Knew You
    21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your
    name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

  • OldBut YoungMoney

    If they don’t pull his crap, I will make sure that NOTHING again is ever bought from LifeWay, which apparently only cares about money. He’s a fraud. We need to get MORE strict on this issue not less if we are to ever turn things around. If LifeWay doesn’t drop the hammer on this guy, I will drop the hammer on LifeWay.

    • Calypso

      13 If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

      7 [Love] always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

      8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

      13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

      …unless someone hints that gays should be treated as people, then crucify ’em.

      • OldBut YoungMoney

        The fact that you even speak like that and distort scripture to push a perversion is truly telling. God said it’s worthy of the death penalty. Surprise surprise, I believe that too. Am I now evil because I believe what God believes: that pushing perversion is wrong, should be dealt with severely, and that perversions like that are worthy of death?

        • Sisyphus

          Perversion punishable by death, so it sounds like your not a fan of grace and/or forgiveness. Nice to know you advocate death for anyone who does not believe the way you do.

          • OldBut YoungMoney

            What do you mean anyone who does not believe what I do? I thought we were talking about sodomites. Furthermore, those weren’t my words! Those were the apostle Paul’s words! You just showed yourself to HATE God’s word. The apostle Paul said, and I quote, Romans 1:32, “Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.” Where do you think I got this from?

          • Calypso

            You take pleasure in hate and self righteousness. Read what your book days about that.

          • OldBut YoungMoney

            I sure do, now go away.

          • Calypso

            You might want to read your book.

          • OldBut YoungMoney

            You might want to read it, not me. It says that sodomite acts are worthy of death. Me quoting that is not sinful. To say that someone quoting the Bible is sinful is so stupid it’s not even really worthy addressing because that’s just sheer stupidity.

        • Calypso

          Read through the comments here. They ooze with self righteousness, hate and contempt. And oh goody goody, a threat of eternal damnation to boot.

          It’s your book of fairy tales, not mine. Ignore every positive message in it all you want. Use your book to justify self righteousness, hate and contempt if that fills your heart with glee.

          I just like being reminded what a relief it is to be free of “christian” “love.”

          • OldBut YoungMoney

            LOL self righteousness… you sound self righteous if any. A threat? You mean a fact? If I tell you don’t touch the stove it’s hot and you tell me stop threatening me you bigot, then you’re not that bright, which is exactly the case here. Why are you here? To push perversion? Go away.

          • Calypso

            Show me evidence of a hot stove first. But there is no evidence, because no one has ever seen it. Show me one piece of evidence that hell exists outside of the sadistic dreams of those who claim to speak for their deity who cannot be seen, heard or touched. P.S. “I talked to someone who talked to someone who talked to someone who said he talked to god” is not evidence.

            Read your book. The lord you claim to follow said to treat people with love and kindness. Are you sure he approves of you misusing his words?

          • OldBut YoungMoney

            You said it was a threat. Now you’re just saying show me proof. I’m not trying to prove anything to you, a person who pushes perversion. Just go away. People who spread filth are not welcome here. It’s you who should read. It says they are worthy of death. I’m just quoting it and I saying I support what the apostle himself said. It says that we are to have NO PART with sexual deviants, ZERO. It says that if someone comes to us trying to peddle a doctrine not in the Bible, we are to shut the door in their face, not eat with them, and to not even bid them Godspeed. That’s ALL in the book you keep acting like you know something about but you don’t. Me saying no one should sell this crook’s merchandise is perfectly in tune with scripture.

      • YCNAN

        TWISTING SCRIPTURE AND TAKING IT OUT OF CONTEXT TO CONDONE SIN IS SIN. GOD WILL HOLD YOU ACCOUNTABLE

    • Sisyphus

      I suspect you are overestimating your power regarding Lifeway’s business.

    • YCNAN

      SAME HERE. YEARS AGO I READ ABOUT THIS WOLF AND WAS PUZZLED ABOUT ALL HIS POPULARITY OVER THE YEARS. HE PROBABLY THOUGHT NOTHING HE COULD SAY WOULD DAMPEN HIS POPULARITY – PRIDE GOETH BEFORE A FALL.. NOTHING IS HIDDEN (EVENTUALLY)

  • http://HisPlaceDanville.com Stephen Anderson

    The Message “Bible” is garbage. It should never have been put on the shelves.

  • Reason2012

    Beware these hundreds of English “translations” which really came from the perverted Greek texts to begin with.
    And note what God says about His Word:

    “I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.”
    Psalms 138:2

    “The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.”
    Psalms 12:6-7

    God / Jesus knew it would happen that satan would try to confuse and obfuscate God’s Word so people would be decevied into thinking God didn’t or couldn’t preserve it, and made it quite clear and simple how to figure it out when we’re hearing God’s Word and when we’re not (perverted translations):

    “And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned? Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.”
    John 7:15-18

    So regardless of the claims made by others of texts, translations methods, how hard it supposedly is to understand, discovery of more texts, older means better, ignoring formal and verbal equivalency and instead going for dynamic equivalency and more, Jesus makes it clear born again believers in God will know His Word: You do this by hearing it – i.e., comparing English versions to each other.

    So believing God would preserve His Word, and comparing them, it’s clear the KJV comes out on top with ease as being God’s preserved Word.

    Here are but a few examples out of thousands, for just a few of the other “translations”: KJV, NIV, NASB, NWT:

    Mt 18:11
    KJV “For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.”
    NIV OMITTED
    NASB footnote casts doubt
    NWT OMITTED

    Other versions do not like that Jesus was coming to save that which was lost.
    So which claim is God’s Word? Both claims can’t be God’s Word.

    Mt 19:17
    KJV “Why callest thou me good?”
    NIV “Why do you ask me about what is good?”
    NASB “Why are you asking me about what is good?”
    NWT “Why do you ask me about what is good?”

    These other versions do not like it that Jesus was called good (and Jesus then reminds them that only God is good – very telling way of pointing out again that He is God). Other versions leave it out.
    So which claim is God’s Word? Both claims can’t be God’s Word.

    Mt 25:13
    KJV “Ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.”
    NIV “You do not know the day or the hour.”
    NASB “You do not know the day nor the hour.”
    NWT “You know neither the day nor the hour,”

    These other versions doesn’t like reminding us that it’s Christ that will return.
    So which claim is God’s Word? Both claims can’t be God’s Word.

    Lk 4:4
    KJV “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.”
    NIV “Man does not live on bread alone.”
    NASB “Man shall not live on bread alone.”
    NWT “Man must not live by bread alone.”

    These other versions are not keen on believers living by every Word of God.
    So which claim is God’s Word? Both claims can’t be God’s Word.

    Jn 6:47
    KJV “He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.”
    NIV “He who believes has everlasting life.”
    NASB “He who believes has eternal life.”
    NWT “He that believes has everlasting life.”

    These Bibles do not want others to know Christ said we believe ON HIM to have everlasting life – no wonder so many think that they believe in God instead means they have everlasting life, leaving the fact that the truth is actually that we must believe ON Christ. Another huge perversion.

    So which claim is God’s Word? Both claims can’t be God’s Word.

    It would be deception here to claim all those Bibles are just fine. Either the KJV is God’s Word, or the NIV/NASB/NWT are God’s Word. They can’t BOTH be. And others claiming “you’re following KJV only-ism” wouldn’t change the fact that clearly the KJV is God’s Word here, not NIV, NASB or NWT instead, and certainly not ALL of them!

    There are MANY huge changes or outright ommissions, easy to spot if you check. So all the talk of Apocrypha and alternate editings and more to try defending NIV or NASB or NWT or other obvious English perversions of God’s Word falls utterly flat. And so it goes with the others. One can easily check all other Bible versions comparing verses for these numerous errors and outright perversions, attacks on the deity of Christ and on salvation being the most critical, and the choice becomes clear.

    Why would any born again believer in God read a Bible that has such blatant attacks on the deity of Christ and salvation, let alone that could have such blatant peversions who knows where?!

    There are some that teach God did not preserve His Word. They do so when they pretend:
    – none can be completely trusted as being most accurate and
    – God’s Word has been scattered beyond His control into the wind in the English language and hence we must read them all and each person must decide for themselves what English translation to follow for each verse.

    This is just engendering confusion and obfuscation – the whole point of hundreds of English “translations” in recent history: to inject confusion and obfuscate God’s truth, attacking the deity of Christ and the doctrine of salvation by Christ / grace. Then pretend only a few have the ability to let us know what God’s truth is by all their studying and research, and born again believers will have to take their word for it. Anyone who pretends, given just a sampling of verses above, that the NIV, NASB or NWT are also God’s Word, claiming all their “studying” and so on, is just deceiving instead.

    Those who are saved should have the desire to have the most accurate version of God’s Word in their language, and most certainly avoid the most blatant anti-Christ perverted Bibles, which in English a couple of which that are hugely popular ones that I exposed above. The idea that God’s Word has been scattered into the English wind and we can’t know anymore what His Word hence we must read all these different Bibles and each person decide for themsleves does not come from God.

    • FoJC

      Jesus Christ is the Word of God. All power in Heaven and Earth have been given to Him.

      • Reason2012

        Correct. There’s also God’s written Word that He said every word is pure, that God shall keep them and that God shall preserve them.

        • FoJC

          The references to the Word of God in the Scripture are concerning Jesus.

          • Reason2012

            Yes, Jesus is referenced as the Word of God, but there are also references in the Word of God of how God promises to preserve the very written Word of God itself – the written doctrine we call the Bible – as cited in my original post.

          • FoJC

            You have no idea what you’re talking about, even as those who did not know the Word of God when He walked among them. You are very good and posting long, seemingly thorough pieces on here and other places, but you argue for your religious beliefs, not the Truth.

            Follow Jesus, find Truth.

          • Reason2012

            You have no idea what you’re talking about, even as those who did not know the Word of God when He walked among them.

            So now judging me as not saved like those who were not saved when Jesus walked among them? Why is it you cannot address a single thing I said, where I quoted Scripture that backs up what I’ve said and refutes what you’ve said, but instead ignore it all and just start implying I’m still on my way to_hell? That’s heartbreaking.

            “Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.”
            Matthew 7:1-2

            Using your logic that “the Word of God” means Jesus every single time it’s written, that the Bible never references God’s written Word / Scripture, then Psalms 12:6 is supposedly talking about Jesus also.

            “The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.”
            Psalms 12:6-7

            Yet that makes NO sense. God’s Word / Scripture in Pslams 12:6 says The words (plural) of the LORD are pure WORDS. That doesn’t mean the “Jesuses” of the LORD are pure WORDS or pure “Jesuses”.

            It says God shall preserved these words (them – plural) from this generation forward. It doesn’t say thou shalt preserve Jesus or Jesuses from this day forward.

            it says His words were purified seven times – Jesus never needed to be purified.

            It says God shall keep and preserve them – His written Words – Jesus is not the one that needs to be kept and preserved.

            here are more cases where the Bible instead references God’s written Word.

            “If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;”
            John 10:35

            “While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.”
            John 17:12

            “So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper [in the thing] whereto I sent it.”
            Isaiah 55:11

            “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”
            Matthew 24:35

            “My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings. Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart. For they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh.”
            Proverbs 4:20-22

            Please think again about claiming God does not address His written Word as well in the Bible, let alone before judging others as still on their way to_hell just because you cannot refute Scripture that goes against the beliefs you insist on hanging on to.

            Follow Jesus, find Truth.

            “And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?”
            Luke 6:46

          • FoJC

            Are you an advanced chat bot? Your response style is very mechanical and even predictable. Maybe you just blindly copy/paste things for the thrill of arguing with people. Both scenarios fit your style.

            I just know there are people on the internet who have figured out that I don’t debate Scripture with Scripture. Jesus doesn’t argue with Himself, why would the Holy Spirit want those who follow Him to do essentially the same thing?

            Follow Jesus, find Wisdom.

          • Reason2012

            In this case it’s not debating Scripture with Scripture. It’s Scripture debating your claim that is false: that the phrase “word of God” always means Jesus every time, when I cited many verses (and there are dozens more) where the Word of God means His written Word instead.

            So while Jesus is also called the Word of God, the Scripture also points to His written Word with that phrase in some places as well.

            God wants us to search the Scriptures, to see if things people claim are actually true. In this case, what you claimed was not true.

            Take care.

          • FoJC

            “The Word of the LORD came unto me saying…”

            Then they wrote it down. It’s not the written words, but the Word of God which proceeds from the heart of God. Jesus Christ is that Word. It is from this Word that we receive Faith to be saved. Jesus is alive, not an inanimate book.

            Follow Jesus, find Truth.

          • Reason2012

            We’re not talking about the phrase “Word of the LORD”. The disussion is what you said about the phrase “Word of God”

            The references to the Word of God in the Scripture are concerning Jesus.

            I cited many verses (and there are almost 50 of them) that have “Word of God” in it., and many of them are referring to God’s written word, that was already written.

            “Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.”
            Proverbs 30:5

            “And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.”
            Luke 4:4

            “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.”
            Luke 8:11

            “And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.”
            Acts 4:31

            “Which was with the deputy of the country, Sergius Paulus, a prudent man; who called for Barnabas and Saul, and desired to hear the word of God.”
            Acts 13:7

            “So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed.”
            Acts 19:20

            “What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?”
            1 Corinthians 14:36

            “But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.”
            2 Corinthians 4:2

            “Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;”
            Colossians 1:25

            The phrase “word of God“, while it was used to describe Christ, is also used many times to describe God’s written Word as well, even AFTER it was written down.

            It in no way takes away from God calling Jesus the Word of God as well, but it does show how important His written Word, the Scriptures is as well. Over the ages many have tried to minimize not only Jesus, but God’s written Word as well – I would beware their attempts to do so.

          • FoJC

            Sad. You don’t even understand what you claim is the Word of God. The Scriptures have already testified that Jesus is the Word of God. Which is the same as the “Word of the LORD”. You won’t understand it by nitpicking over subjective word meanings, but by opening your ears-to-hear, so you can hear the voice of God and understand His meaning of the Scriptures, rather than your own.

            Follow Jesus, find Truth.

          • Reason2012

            So here’s what you’re claiming God’s Word says:

            “Every Jesus is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.”
            Proverbs 30:5

            No, every word of God is pure …

            “And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every Jesus.”
            Luke 4:4

            There’s only one Jesus, so mankind shall not live by every Jesus, but by every written word of God.

            “Now the parable is this: The seed is the Jesus.”
            Luke 8:11

            We sew God’s word to others, which of course His word speaks about Jesus, we don’t literally sew Jesus.

            “And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the Jesus with boldness.”
            Acts 4:31

            They spoke a great deal about God and His Word, they didn’t speak “the Jesus”. And “the” was a Greek word in the Scriptures as well.

            “Which was with the deputy of the country, Sergius Paulus, a prudent man; who called for Barnabas and Saul, and desired to hear the Jesus.”
            Acts 13:7

            Now that Jesus was ascended to heaven, Sergius wanted to hear the word of God – again “the” being an actual Greek word as well.

            “So mightily grew the Jesus and prevailed.”
            Acts 19:20

            “What? came the Jesus out from you? or came it unto you only?”
            1 Corinthians 14:36

            “But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the Jesus deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.”
            2 Corinthians 4:2

            No, people handle God’s Word deceitfully. They don’t handle Jesus Himself.

            “Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the Jesus;”
            Colossians 1:25

            Basic reading shows in those verses and many others it makes no sense to pretend it’s talking about Jesus instead of the written word of God.

          • FoJC

            You just don’t understand. I pray you come into the knowledge of who the Word of God is and the true meanings of Scripture.

            Jesus is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword…

            Follow Jesus, find Truth.

          • Reason2012

            So you teach the deception that, for example,
            “And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every Jesus”
            Luke 4:4

            Every Jesus? How many Jesus’ are there?

            No, Jesus said man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

            To try to pretend every single instance of “word of God” in Scriptures means Jesus and not sometimes God’s written word is just flat out deception, friend. And some use that deception to undermine God’s written Word, claiming God never spoke of it or of preserving it.
            Please think again.

          • FoJC

            Don’t sit cooped in a library reading about Jesus, when He’s sitting outside on a bench, waiting for you. He will introduce Himself.

            Is the best way to learn about your parents by reading a book, or by spending time with them?

            Is the best way to form and foster a functional, growing marriage to read about your spouse or to spend time with him or her – talking to each other?

            Yes, God gave us the Scriptures. The Holy Spirit empowered and informed some people to write enough down so we could use it to form doctrines, be encouraged, and remind ourselves daily about the wonderful works of God.

            But, the Word of God came to earth and was made into the likeness of sinful flesh. He did what He was sent to do, then was received back to the Father (His Word never returns to Him void). Afterwards, He sent the Holy Spirit to be with us and in us, to baptized us, so that we could walk with Him, live with Him, and be transformed into the human beings God intended us to be from the Beginning.

            Jesus Christ, the Word of God made into the likeness of sinful flesh, is alive. He is not a book and doesn’t live in a book.

            Follow Jesus, find Truth.

          • Reason2012

            What you say about what God / Jesus did is true, but it doesn’t change the fact that you ignore that in the Scriptures God also points to His written Word as the “word of God” as well.

            Why are you so determined to pretend God was not also at times referring to His written Word, the Scriptures?

            So again you believe the deception that, for example,
            “And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every Jesus”
            Luke 4:4

            Every Jesus? How many Jesus’ are there?

            No, Jesus said man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God, teaching us that we are to read God’s Word daily just like we eat food daily, teaching us elsewhere that God promised to preserve His written Word.

            For any of us to deny that is deception.

          • FoJC

            Okay, now you’re just being silly. I didn’t say to replace the word Jesus where the Word of God is written. You’re intentionally making a farce, and apparently just for argument’s sake. If you want to be OCD silly, adding tongue-in-cheek humor to conversation just to see what response you get, then we don’t have anything to discuss.

          • Reason2012

            I didn’t say to replace the word Jesus where the Word of God is written.

            Let me quote what you said.

            The references to the Word of God in the Scripture are concerning Jesus.

            So you’re claiming every time the Bible references the “word of God”, that it’s talking about Jesus.

            So again you believe the deception that, for example,
            “And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God”
            Luke 4:4

            So according to that verse, we’re to live by every Jesus?
            Or by every word that God spoke that is written in Scripture?

            Can’t have it both ways.
            It He was talking about Jesus there, he wouldn’t have said EVERY word of God.

            No sure why you are against God also referring to God’s Word in Scriptures, why you’re against God referring to His Words that He spoke as the word of God, especially when He said every word is pure, as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

            I can tell you that those who hate the thought that God preserved His Word so they can deceive others into thinking God didn’t preserve His Word, will also not like that God mentions His written Word and promised to preserve every word.

            God promised to preserve His spoken then written Word. To do so He needs to call that the word of God also, the words of the LORD.

            “The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.”
            Psalms 12:6-7

            We are commanded to keep them. Would “them” be multiple Jesus’s, or His Words?

            God does call Jesus the living Word, who was with Him in the beginning, who by Him all things were made.

            But He also calls Scripture His Word, and He promised to preserve it.

            Not sure where the difficulty is – but for other people who seek to deceive that God did not preserve His Word, for them it’s clear at least what their motivation is. I do not sense that motivation in you, but what other motivation would lead born again believers in God to claim God does not call His written Word the word of God also?

            The written word is NOT the word of God?

            If it is, what’s wrong in also calling it such like God clearly did?

          • FoJC

            You are wrong. You want to be wrong. If you want to practice your dead, powerless, vain, self-fulfilling religion, that’s your choice.

            (I’m not answering your questions. Jesus told me to “let them alone”, when encountered by those who just berate with their words.

            I choose Jesus. I choose the Word of God.

            Follow Jesus, find Salvation.

          • Reason2012

            You are wrong. You want to be wrong. If you want to practice your dead, powerless, vain, self-fulfilling religion, that’s your choice.

            So your fruit is to

            – deny that the Bible is the written word of God,
            – deny that God references His written Word in the Bible also as the word of God,
            – deny also that God promised to preserve it.

            So be it. Catholics do the same thing.

            Your ad hominem and pretense at being a mind reader is more of your fruit.

            “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?”
            Matthew 7:15-16

            Meanwhile others will trust God that
            – the Bible is the written word of God,
            – God not only calls Jesus the living Word, but calls His written word the word of God, that we are to live by that also and not just by bread alone,
            – all the words of His written Word are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times, that God shall keep them, that God shall preserve them from this generation for ever.
            – God promised to preserve it

            In the end it’s God we’ll have to convince.

          • FoJC

            The more you write, the more you come across like a religious predator. You’re very good at twisting words and ideas, while appearing to honor the Scriptures. You hammer people, over and over, almost like you have no other intention but to “win”. In reality, you never win, you just beat your victims down.

            I think you feel threatened, even to the point of maliciousness, if someone comes along that might look like they can draw people away from thinking you are the “one” who knows the Bible and should be listened to and honored, then you attack. It’s a pack mentality, rather than one born of the ‘mind of Christ’.

            You, as well as others, have this mindset that people have to answer your questions. You do realize that I owe you nothing, no homage, no accountability, nothing. I don’t have to answer one question, reply to one comment you make in any response to comments I post. Yet, you, and other high minded people like you, act as though you own these comment boards, and others have ‘play by your rules’. We don’t. No one has to post comments and responses by your rules.

            Sadly, you’ve made many assumptions from my non-responses, then responding within the context of your assumptions, and making additional points based on your assumptions. This is the way of the blind religious person who doesn’t hear from the LORD, but bullies others with their religiosity. Well, bully away, it doesn’t remove me from the Kingdom of God, nor my Father’s hand, nor removes the Word of God from my heart.

            The Covenant that those of us who follow Jesus have with God now is not based on text, but the Word of God “written” in our hearts. The Holy Spirit, sent by the Word of God, “writes” God’s Word in our inner being. Fake Christians, on the other hand, tote around their Bibles, slamming others over the head with it (mainly metaphorically, but sometimes literally). People need Truth and the power of the Holy Spirit, not yet another religion claiming to represent God, but crafted by the corrupt minds of those who reject the Spirit of God.

            Follow Jesus, find Truth.

          • Reason2012

            More non-stop ad hominem. You claim to be against bashing others over the head while being the only one doing it with your non-stop ad hominem.

            You do realize that I owe you nothing, no homage, no accountability, nothing.

            No, never said you owe me homage or accountability – why lie? I’m just rebuking the false claims you brought public to begin with. You want to bring publicly false claims about God, but then do not like it when anyone else refutes your claim lest you get upset and stream ad hominem at them?

            And you did factually claim that God never called His written word the “word of God” (when He did),

            The references to the Word of God in the Scripture are concerning Jesus.

            You then false claiming

            you’ve made many assumptions from my non-responses

            No assumption necessary – you flat out said it. Why lie even more?

            By claiming it’s a fact that “word of God” or even the “words of the LORD” never means God’s written word (the Bible – the Scriptures -that even Jesus points to never being broken) this in turn means you must throw out the verses in God’s written Word that God promises to preserve His written word, since you falsely claim the phrase “word of God” and even the “words of the LORD” refers only to Jesus every single time.

            So God promised to preserve His written Word, yet you deny that claim because you falsely claim that’s talking about Jesus instead:

            “The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.”
            Psalms 12:6-7

            Nothing to assume there. And you do not deny it either. So you think God never said He would preserve His written Words forever.

            Any born again child of God would readily admit God promised to preserve His written word, the Scriptures that we now call the Bible.

            In fact, you even say more of the opposite

            the Word of God “written” in our hearts. The Holy Spirit, sent by the Word of God, “writes” God’s Word in our inner being. Fake Christians, on the other hand, tote around their Bibles, slamming others over the head with it

            So this in response to talking about the Scriptures, in effect implying the whole of Scriptures is in our hearts, not the Bible.

            God writes His truth in our hearts, His law in our hearts so we know we’re doing wrong – but He didn’t write all 66 books of the Bible in our hearts.

            The Covenant that those of us who follow Jesus have with God now is not based on text, but the Word of God “written” in our hearts.

            And there you are dismissing the Scriptures “not based on text” – the written word of God. That’s deception, plain and simple. You clearly dismiss the Bible. it’s God you’ll have to convince that we are to just throw out the Scriptures.

            By the way, it’s preaching the gospel (the Scriptures) that God saves people through by His grace. He commands us to preach the gospel, and to grow by reading His word daily.

            … [Jesus said] and the scripture cannot be broken;”
            John 10:35

            “These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”
            Acts 17:11

            “And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.”
            Luke 4:4

            You instead teach the Scriptures are not needed and that we are not to bother reading it at all since all we need to know is in our hearts.

            Follow Jesus find Truth

            “And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?”
            Luke 6:46

          • FoJC

            “And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?”

            You have to hear Jesus to do what He says. This is the problem with most people who claim to be Christian. They just follow someone’s prescribed doctrine, and that on which they voted. It always bothers the fake Christians when those of us who hear His Voice come along.

            Attack, attack, just as those who didn’t believe attacked Jesus when He walked the earth.

            Follow Jesus, find Truth.

          • YCNAN

            SOME MORE VITRIOL – IS JESUS SMILING?

          • YCNAN

            AND YOU’RE NOT BERATING WITH YOUR WORDS? THE BIBLE TELLS US TO SPEAK THE TRUTH IN LOVE. CHECK IN WITH THE REPENTANCE DEPARTMENT ASAP

          • FoJC

            Ah, the incessant “shouter”, aka CAPS user. Do you play other roles in the mock debate?

          • FoJC

            Oh, and quit trying to make yourself look like me. You are a copy cat, and deceiver.

          • YCNAN

            GOD IS THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN JUDGE BECAUSE HE ALONE CAN SEE INTO THE HEARTS OF PEOPLE AND THEREFORE IN TERMS OF SALVATION WE SHOULD NOT JUDGE.
            HOWEVER, WE ARE INSTRUCTED TO DISCERN BETWEEN THE WOLVES AND THE TRUE BELIEVERS BY THEIR ACTIONS AND THIS WE ARE TO DO DAILY.

          • Reason2012

            Correct, which is why we are to rebuke false teachings, like FoJC claiming God never calls His written word the word of God or hence implying God never promised to preserve His written Word.

  • Oboehner

    The “message” more aptly named simply “the mess”.

    • trish

      Lol. Couldn’t have said it better myself!!

  • Dan Smith

    This book is an ABOMINATION… he only retracted because of the money he was going to lose…

    WAKE UP CHURCH BEFORE YOU GET DECEIVED EVEN MORE…

    • YCNAN

      CASE CLOSED

  • rsheat

    Matthew 7:15– Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Another wolf devouring sheep from the hireling (SBC).

    • Calypso

      LOL. Too funny.

      Did you bother read the rest of that passage?

      Did you notice the part about not judging others and worrying about your own 2x4s rather than someone else’s splinter?

      Did you notice that point where your Jesus said treating other people like you would like to be treated is the entirety of the law? That’s it. No dietary rules, no sex rules, no church services, just kindness.

      Did you see how true followers are known by good fruit (love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control if I recall).

      Tell me, are hate and contempt and self righteousness “good fruit” or “bad fruit”, do ya think?

      All you are doing is proving your book and your savior are powerless to make anyone the kind of person this Jesus wants his followers to be.

      • YCNAN

        THE SIN OF HOMOSEXUALITY IS NO “SPLINTER”, IT’S A LOG

  • FoJC

    Matthew 21:12-13, John 2:13-17.

    Follow Jesus, find Wisdom.

  • Steve03

    Jeremiah 8:8 was written long before Peterson.