Atheist Group Calls Bible a ‘Violent, Racist Book’ in Scolding Gov. for Lamenting Bible’s Removal From Schools

FRANKFORT, Ky. — A prominent professing atheist organization characterized the Bible as a “violent, racist book” in scolding the governor of Kentucky over his recent remarks lamenting the ramifications of removing the Bible from public schools.

Gov. Matt Bevin appeared on the Tom Roten Morning Show on Aug. 15, where he discussed the public unrest in Charlottesville, Virginia, as well as a recent bill he signed dubbed as the “Bible Literacy Bill.”

“When you go back a couple of hundred years, in most instances the only textbooks that were in our public schools were the Bible,” he said. “And so to that end to pretend, again, to scrub history and pretend that that wasn’t reality, I think is a dangerous precedent.”

“And it’s interesting, the more we’ve removed any sense of spiritual obligation or moral higher authority or absolute right and wrong, the more we’ve removed things that are biblically taught from society, the more we’ve seen the kind of mayhem that we were just discussing,” Bevin stated.

However, the Wisconsin-based Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF) soon fired off a letter to Bevin to take issue with his words, which they characterized as being “inflammatory.” It asserted that the Bible is rather a “violent, racist book” that was used to justify slavery in American history.

“The Bible is a violent, racist book that has inspired violent, racist organizations,” wrote Co-Presidents Dan Barker and Annie Laurie Gaylor. “Ironically, the Bible that you want to unconstitutionally interject in public schools encourages violence and racism. Inculcating more American children in the ways of the Bible would not have prevented Charlottesville.”

The two opined that God’s selection of the Jews as His chosen people can cause feelings of supremacy. Citing Scriptural examples of the battles that the people of Israel fought against heathen nations on the way to the promised land—which they referred to as God ordering genocide—FRF said that telling believers that they are “part of the chosen few” can lead to racism.

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“The Bible is rife with such harmful supremacist teachings: ‘The Lord your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on earth to be His people, His treasured possession,’ Deut. 7:6,” Barker and Gaylor stated.

They also contended that the KKK professes to be Christian, and that Adolph Hitler was Roman Catholic.

“If you want less violence, less religion is a good place to start. Your inflammatory comments were short on facts, history, and reality, much less a reverence for the First Amendment and its Establishment Clause,” FFRF wrote. “Please do not misuse your public office to promote your personal religion.”

The atheistic Church-State separation group had previously denounced Bevin for calling for local churches to organize prayer walks in Louisville to help curb violence in the city.

“You don’t need permission from me how to do it. You know, you walk to a corner, pray for the people, talk to people along the way,” he told a group of pastors in June. “No songs, no singing, no bullhorn, no tee shirts, no chanting. Be pleasant, talk to the people, that’s it.”

Bevin, a Southern Baptist, has likewise urged the Body of Christ to open their homes to foster children and those needing forever families. Bevin himself is an adoptive father.

“Three hundred and fifty—plus or minus—young people are right now fully able to and desirous of being adopted. There’s more than 6,000 churches in Kentucky. There should not be any child in Kentucky able to be adopted, ready to adopted, wanting to be adopted, who does not have a home,” he declared at the “Summit to Save Our Children,” becoming visibly grieved.

1 John 4:20-21 reads, “If a man say, ‘I love God,’ and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? And this commandment have we from Him: that he who loveth God love his brother also.”

1 John 3:14-15 also reads, “We know that we have passed from death unto life because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.”

1 Corinthians 13 likewise instructs Christians that without love toward their fellow man, “I am nothing,” and then defines love in detail.

“Charity (love) suffereth long, and is kind, charity envieth not, charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil, rejoiceth not in iniquity but rejoiceth in the truth, beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things [and] endureth all things.”


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  • Amos Moses – He>i

    2 Corinthians
    3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
    3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
    3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
    3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
    3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

    • Why don’t you just c & p the entire bible and be done with it. Jezus.

      • Amos Moses – He>i

        because that would be wrong and proof texting it would be OUT OF CONTEXT ………

  • Trilemma

    The Old Testament is pretty violent and racist and immoral. Christians should remove the Old Testament from their Bibles and stick with the New Testament only.

    • Amos Moses – He>i

      so you want to cut Christ up into pieces and discard Him ….. not a wise idea ………

      John
      5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
      5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
      5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
      5:39 >>>>> Search the scriptures (the OT here); for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me (Christ). <<<<<<<
      5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
      5:41 I receive not honour from men.
      5:42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.

      • Trilemma

        It’s ink on paper. It’s not a person.

        • Amos Moses – He>i

          John
          1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
          1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
          1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
          1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
          1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

          God is His word, His Word is God ……….

          • Trilemma

            You’re saying the Bible is His Word. Let’s see what that looks like.

            John
            1:1 In the beginning was the Bible, and the Bible was with God, and the Bible was God.
            1:2 The Bible was in the beginning with God.
            1:3 All things were made by the Bible; and without the Bible was not anything made that was made.
            1:4 In the Bible was life; and the life was the light of men.

            I don’t think so. You’re conflating the Word, a person, with the Bible, a book. The Bible is not the Word. The Bible was not nailed to the cross.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope … you poor restatement of Gods word proves nothing ………… God has said who and what He is … He spoke ALL of creation into existence WITH HIS WORD ………. His word is contained in the scriptures and He has promised to protect His word through all time …. and it still stands to this day …………

          • This style 10/6

            That the bible says that this is so does mean that it is so. Any objective reading of the bible shows it to be the work of men, and prejudiced men at that, not some supernatural being.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            do you know what God says to the unregenerate rebellious sinner …….

          • This style 10/6

            Oh give over do! This kind of thing has no effect on me. Try some rational argument for a change.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you do not ……… BTW …. he says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING …………

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            2 Peter
            1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
            1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
            1:18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
            1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
            1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
            1:21 >>>>>>> For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. <<<<<<

            they writers SAY DIFFERENT ………

          • This style 10/6

            Of course they did! What else would you expect? Do you believe everything you see in print?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            i certainly do not believe anything you say here ……….

          • This style 10/6

            The non belief is mutual.

          • p78

            Yes it does

          • p78

            God bless you Amos. Trying to explain the word and work of God to hateful people takes real patience!

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            thnx … 😉 ……..

          • Cady555

            For the record, Amos is pretty much the least convincing person here. He says the same thing over and over, never addresses serious comments, and regurgitates chunks of bible verses.

            I prefer Christians who can vary on a conversation. Those I will actually listen to.

          • JasonBeckman

            Hateful people like yourself?

          • p78

            Lol.

          • p78

            Hey if you can’t take it don’t dish it !

          • Trilemma

            First you said His Word is the scriptures. Now you say His Word is contained in the scriptures. Which is it?

          • Paladin Roy

            The Bible is God’s word He had spoken to man and commanded the words be written down (He still speaks to His Children to this day).

            An easy see to see “the trinity” is … The Word is God’s Voice. His Spirit is Holy, and of course we have God (the Father of all). These three are one. … We say the Bible is God’s Word as well because it was Inspired of God Himself.

            You write a book, and it would still be your word as well as if you spoke in an audible voice. … Those who read your book would say “you” said this or that, and it would be true.. The same is with the Scripture. …

            2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
            17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

          • Trilemma

            How can you tell which parts of the Bible are God inspired scripture and which are not?

    • InTheChurch

      Do you know why the OT is violent? Try reading the chapter before and after the horrible incidents to understand why.

      • There is no excuse for violence. There is certainly no excuse for an all powerful and supposedly benevolent god doing or advocating violence, as the Christian god does so frequently in the Old Testament.

        • Amos Moses – He>i

          so tell us …. on what basis do you make such claims …. tell us your “truth” and how you arrived at it ……. and you do not get to use the bible or any of its tenets …………

        • mr goody two shoes

          God is teaching us that sin deserves death and that animal sacrifices for sin . have to be repeated over and over and they still don’t take away sin. In simple words he is getting people ready for he himself setting aside his Godly crown AMD coming down to live and die in our sinful stead.

          • Yes, and if we humans were all stupid enough to believe that nonsense, we’d still be treating diseases using exorcism.

        • InTheChurch

          Those are only one verse, did you read the verses before and after to understand why?

    • The New Testament is not much better…

      Matthew 10:28 (fear God or be destroyed in Hell); 13:42, 13:50 (nonconformists will be thrown into a furnace); 25:41 (cursed to burn in eternal fire); 25:46 (eternal punishment); Mark 9:43 (disbelievers will burn in unquenchable fire).

      Even as punishment for those who do evil, this is over the top (infinite punishment for finite crimes), but Jesus also promises it for the “crime” – the thoughtcrime – of unbelief. It’s all very Orwellian.

      “Love me back, or I’ll set you on fire forever” is NOT a message of love. It’s a message of jealousy and vindictiveness (and it shows quite nicely that Jesus and his father are one and the same person). It’s only “better” than the message of the Old Testament because the Bible doesn’t actually show Jesus throwing souls into the lake of fire. Jesus doesn’t get his hands dirty: he gets his angels to do that. In the New Testament, Jesus acts like a careful Mafia Don: he maintains plausible deniability so that he can still claim to be a loving savior. His attitude is “People send themselves to Hell – I’d love to save them, but my hands are tied.”

      But he’s God. Supposedly he created the entire universe with a word. He can save anyone if he just says the word. But he doesn’t. The Christian message is, “That’s a lovely soul you have there: it would be a shame if anything were to happen to it.” This is not a religion of love. It’s a protection racket.

      The only reason we still tolerate this religion is that deep down we all know that it’s not real.

      • Paladin Roy

        And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. ..Matthew 10:28 … Jesus only has the Power to cast both body and soul into hell. ….

        • Yes – he’s a monster.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “Yes – he’s a monster.”

            but wait …. you said He does not exist …. and yet you seem to spend a lot of time trying to convince people that he does not ….. but then you make this “factual” statement about Him ….. contradiction after contradiction ………

      • Amos Moses – He>i

        out of context passages prove nothing …. interesting how the scriptures make ABSOLUTELY no attempt to cover up the TRUTH of scriptures …. and you think it proves anything to SHOW THAT IT DOES JUST THAT ….. PROVING that it is THE TRUTH …………..

      • Trilemma

        Based on the depiction of God in the Old Testament, it’s easy to believe it’s in God’s character to send people to eternal conscious torment in a fiery Hell. However, the New Testament actually teaches universal reconciliation.

        Don’t be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna. – Matthew 10:28 WEB

        Gehenna is not Hell. It is a valley next to Jerusalem where garbage and dead bodies of criminals were burned in unquenchable fire. Jesus was saying not to fear the religious leaders who could not kill people but the Romans who could. Matthew 13:42 & 13:50 are talking about a period of unpleasant purification. There’s no indication it’s eternal here.

        Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers; – Matthew 25:41 YLT

        The word translated eternal in Matthew 25:41, 46 actually means age during or eonian. Both verses are referring to a period of time for purification resulting in reconciliation. In Mark 9:43, Jesus is again talking about Gehenna and not Hell. He was telling them if they find his teachings offensive and they ignore them that they could end up in Gehenna’s fires. Which is what happened in 70 CE.

    • Paladin Roy

      The Word is the Word. God has never changed from the old testament to the new. And the old testament is NOT immoral.

      • Trilemma

        In the Old Testament, God condones chattel slavery. Moral? In the Old Testament, God condones the kidnap and rape of women. Moral? In the Old Testament, God commands a woman to marry her rapist. Moral?

    • mr goody two shoes

      Its Only racist and bigoted for those that do not have a clue on what God is teaching and also do not know the simplest
      difference’s between law and gospel.. Your like the fellow in math class who says how can two two’s become 4. To him they can’t .. If he does not want to be instructed but just wants to fight.

      • Trilemma

        What is God teaching by giving preferential treatment toward one race over all the others and giving that one race permission to kill and enslave any of the others?

    • YikesAndAway

      So do you believe that removing the text will actually make the history go away? Like it never happened? The OT is not racist or immoral and those who seem to enjoy throwing those terms around are usually the ones who don’t understand the terms to begin with and are just regurgitating what someone told them.

      • It’s “not racist or immoral” for a god to drown every living thing in a global flood? It’s not racist or immoral for the same god to demand that the Israelites kill every living thing in the land of Canaan?

        If you think that’s not immoral, then what, in your view, makes the Nazi Holocaust immoral?

        • YikesAndAway

          God can NEVER be immoral it is His alone to decide what is best. All goodness comes from Him and we do not nor cannot know the ways of God.

          The actions of Man are rife with evil, the Holocaust was evil Man destroying God’s chosen people. God did not create the Holocaust, and since He gave us free will to chose our actions and beliefs we have seen the evil that Man does. Does God commit abortions on the life He ordained into existence? Does God ordain the sexual perversions raging in this world, that is Man’s doing. Your false sense of logic and self righteousness is because while your profess God is the problem, it is hate like yours that is damaging this world.

          For someone who enjoys spewing nonsense against God, you fail to see the destruction and violence Man commits daily, and your hate is misplaced.

          • Trilemma

            If God can never be immoral then the Bible gives a false testimony against God since it records God condoning immoral behavior.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            God uses sin sinlessly …… what we meant for evil ….. God uses for good …. God is sovereign …..God is in control of curbing sin …. God can and does curb sin …. because He is sovereign ……….. and not just a little bit sovereign …. TOTALLY sovereign ……….. God allows the unregenerate man to act at times without restraint from God …. man is still responsible for his acts ….

          • Trilemma

            “When you go out to war against your enemies, and the LORD your God gives them into your hand and you take them captive, and you see among the captives a beautiful woman, and you desire to take her to be your wife, and you bring her home to your house, she shall shave her head and pare her nails. And she shall take off the clothes in which she was captured and shall remain in your house and lament her father and her mother a full month. After that you may go in to her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife. – Deuteronomy 21:10-13

            Here, God just gave the Israelite men permission to kidnap women, to force these women to be wives against their will, and to have sex with these women against their will. This is God condoning immoral behavior and not just allowing it.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “God just gave the Israelite men permission to kidnap women,”

            women were chattel in those cultures that were conquered ….. they were in the desert …. so your solution would be to cast them and their children to the elements of that desert …. they would have no job, no money, no skills, no way to obtain any of the necessities of LIFE …… instead what God setup was a method for those people to be cared for as there was no government to give them welfare …. or housing …. or any other thing for their survival ……… and you consider this heinous? …. really ……..

          • Trilemma

            That’s the best solution God could come up with? Tell men they can sin against women if they’ll just feed them?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            marriage is not a sin …… they could marry them …. they were to take care of the defeated enemies families ….. and the only alternative was to sentence them to slow starvation and death in the desert ……. what is your solution ……….

          • Trilemma

            Forcing a woman to marry and live with a man and have his children is called enslavement. Like what happened to Jaycee Dugard.

            God could have commanded the men to treat those women as widows like Ruth. Ruth was not forced to marry Boaz. What about the unattractive women? What happened to them?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            and the culture they were released from was putting children to death for being children …. abortion POST birth …. and the women were treated AS SLAVES already ….. they were CHATTEL …… and AGAIN ….. WHAT IS YOUR solution ………..

          • Trilemma

            Solution: God could have commanded the men to treat those women as widows like Ruth.

            Why is God telling His people they can be just as immoral as the cultures around them?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            well how about this …. to teach stubborn recalcitrant unregenerate rebellious sinners ….. that slavery enslaves not just the slave but the MASTER of the slave …. and that when you break things …. you buy them …. and that your actions have CONSEQUENCES …. not pretend “oh, i am sorry” consequences …. real life altering for the rest of your life consequences and you have to live with them ……….. and take care of …. for the rest of their lives and yours …….. because telling them it is wrong …. is not the same thing as SHOWING them how it is wrong …….. by making them LIVE with just how wrong it is ………

          • Trilemma

            ”…. real life altering for the rest of your life consequences and you have to live with them ……….. and take care of …. for the rest of their lives and yours ……..

            No, not for the rest of their lives. They could opt out at any time. No long term commitment.

            But if you no longer delight in her, you shall let her go where she wants. But you shall not sell her for money, nor shall you treat her as a slave, since you have humiliated her. – Deuteronomy 21:14 ESV

        • Amos Moses – He>i

          “It’s “not racist or immoral” for a god to drown every living thing in a global flood? ”

          not if every living thing is “racist or immoral” ………..

      • Trilemma

        Obviously, removing the text will not make history go away. However, much of the so called history in the Old Testament didn’t actually happen such as a six day creation about 6400 years ago. For the most part, the Old Testament is a history of the Hebrews written for Hebrews by Hebrews and contains fables, legends as well as actual history for the purpose of preserving their cultural identity.

    • Eric L

      Nope, Christians have always regarded that as a heresy. One of the earliest heretics was Marcion, who claimed the god Yahweh of the Old Testament was a different god from Jesus’ god, and that Christians should not read the New Testament. He died circa 160 and has always been regarded as a heretic. People who think the Old Testament shows a God of wrath while the New Testament shows a God of love have clearly never read either Old or New, because in both testaments God is shown as both just and loving. Jesus talked as much about divine judgment as he did about love. Marcion did not even accept the Gospels as they were written but had to edit out the parts he found offensive. That by itself counted as justification for his being excommunicated.

      Heretics have always been much more anti-semitic than Christians. From Marcion on, there were people trying to “purge” Christianity of its Jewish connections. The orthodox Christians would never accept this.

      • Trilemma

        I’m not saying there are two Gods like Marcion. I’m saying what the ancient Hebrews wrote about God is wrong and gives a wrong picture of God. Christians have to use a lot of ridiculous apologetics to try and make God as described in the Old Testament look like God as presented in the New Testament.

        Heretics have always been more anti-Semitic than Christians? I can’t think of a Christian more anti-Semitic than Martin Luther. Was he a heretic?

  • InTheChurch

    It’s amazing how many people don’t know the Bible.

    • LeftRight

      Yeah some people want to live their lives without bowing to what is nothing more than an ancient scam intended to control and fleece the stupid. And you’ve bought it…with cash no doubt! LOL sucker

      • Amos Moses – He>i

        “Yeah some people want to live their lives without bowing to what is nothing”

        and you bow EVERYDAY to things you think are real ….. so you just lied ……….

        • LeftRight

          No I don’t

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            right …. so you just run stop lights and commit other crimes because you do not bow ….. liar …….. all those rules are really just nothing but words on a page somewhere ………. but you bow nonetheless …………..

      • InTheChurch

        The future will reveal much. Good luck.

      • Jerome Horwitz

        And here you are, proving InTheChurch’s point.

        Sucker.

  • Amos Moses – He>i

    1 Corinthians
    2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
    2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
    2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
    2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
    2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

    3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
    3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
    3:20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
    3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
    3:22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
    3:23 And ye are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s.

  • mr goody two shoes

    If you look at reading the bible as a obligation or the christian faith as a Obligation .You might as well be a atheist.

    • Amos Moses – He>i

      ummmmm ….. BAM ….. and …… BAM … again …………

  • I think they might have a point:

    “This is what the Lord Almighty says… ‘Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Samuel 15:3)

    “Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us – he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.” (Psalm 137:9)

    “So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go.(Judges 19:25)

    “And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord, and said, ‘If you will give the Ammonites into my hand, then whoever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return victorious from the Ammonites, shall be the Lord’s, to be offered up by me as a burnt-offering.’ Then Jephthah came to his home at Mizpah; and there was his daughter coming out to meet him with timbrels and with dancing. She was his only child; he had no son or daughter except her. When he saw her, he tore his clothes, and said, ‘Alas, my daughter! You have brought me very low; you have become the cause of great trouble to me. For I have opened my mouth to the Lord, and I cannot take back my vow.’” (Judges 11:30-1, 34-5)

    ‘Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt-offering on one of the mountains that I shall show you.’ (Genesis 22:2)

  • DC Panorama

    Why do not the atheists say the same thing about the Koran? … Are they shitting in fear?

    • We do say the same thing about the Koran, and if Muslims made up more than 1% of American theists, we might need to say it more than we do. But there’s not much point in FFRF going after Muslim politicians who go against the US Constitution when so few of them are peddling their religion at taxpayer expense or going on talk shows to advocate for Islam.

    • Amos Moses – He>i

      because the Koran does not contain the truth of scripture ….. and the point is to trash the truth …. because they cannot listen to it without it hurting their ears ……….

      • Amy

        Both the Bible and Koran are equally not valid.

        • Amos Moses – He>i

          so please explain how you arrived at that THEOLOGICAL statement ………..

          • Amy

            There is no evidence that either book is factually true; so they can be rejected. We do not accept claims until after they have been demonstrated.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            again … a definitive positive statement of negative knowledge ………. you are the one making the claim …………. absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence ……….. now by your OWN STANDARD ………. ” We do not accept claims until after they have been demonstrated” ….. HOW do you plan to demonstrate YOUR claim ……….. where are your data runs and how did you perform this experiment to determine your results ….. what were the controls you had in place …… what data did you throw out and on what basis ….. where is your PEER REVIEWED STUDY ….. and who read that study and approved its publication and where can it be found ……………

          • Amy

            Absence of evidence is evidence of absence. If you have nothing to show then there is nothing to believe.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “Absence of evidence is evidence of absence.”

            just because you do not see something does not prove it does not exist ….. ONLY that you have not seen it or you are not looking in the right place or THAT YOU HAVE EVEN LOOKED AT ALL …………. so AGAIN i ask ….. by your OWN STANDARD ………. ” We do not accept claims until after they have been demonstrated” ….. HOW do you plan to demonstrate YOUR claim ……….. where are your data runs and how did you perform this experiment to determine your results ….. what were the controls you had in place …… what data did you throw out and on what basis ….. where is your PEER REVIEWED STUDY ….. and who read that study and approved its publication and where can it be found …………… this is HOW SCIENCE works …. well …. in todays world anyway ….. WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE …..

            BTW …. this is a CHRISTIAN forum ….. and the A PRIORI here, the PRESUPPOSITION is …… that God exists ……. it does not have to be proven as it is OBVIOUS ….. just like i do not have to prove to an INFANT that gravity works ………. the INFANT does not need a scientific explanation of that truth …. that he would not understand in any event ………. HE KNOWS what the truth is ….. and SO DO YOU …. but you deny it ………

          • Amy

            If you have no evidence then there is no reason to believe a concept.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            so you have stopped any inquiry based on ….. WHAT exactly …… that you have not looked from beginning ……… and we should believe this faulty methodology based on YOUR say so ………… WHY …………….

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            so we can dismiss your claim …. thnx …………

          • Amy

            My entire claim is that you have no evidence for a deity.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            no … YOUR claim is that He does not exist …. the PRESUPPOSITION, the A PRIORI here is that He does ….. and it is SELF EVIDENT ……… that you do not accept the EVIDENCE is not my problem … it is yours …….. truth is either accepted or rejected …. you reject it ….. SO WHAT …………..

          • Amy

            Your deity has a gender now? We do not believe in something until there is evidence for the concept.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            God ALWAYS had a gender ………. “We do not believe in something until there is evidence for the concept.” … so again …. we may dismiss your CLAIM He does not exist ….. THNX ….

          • Amy

            Since when did a deity have genitals?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            since ever ………. “So God created man in his own image” ………

          • Amy

            Provide evidence for your claim.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            again ….. the A PRIORI, the PRESUPPOSITION is that God exists ………. the truth is either accepted of rejected ….. and YOU have NO PLAUSIBLE alternate explanation ………. so after eliminating the impossible …. whatever remains ….. however unbelievable …. must be the truth ……….

          • Amy

            Why would we assume a concept that have no evidence?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            the evidence is ALL OF CREATION ……… but you reject the evidence ………

          • Amy

            Most of life is not created; only the objects we build.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “Most of life is not created”

            when and under what conditions did the inanimate become animate ………..

          • Amy

            The only created objects we are aware of are inanimate. Even a child forming is a chemical reaction. A watch is a tool made by a someone who wants to use the value of time.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            does not answer the question ….. how and when did the inanimate become animate ….. where is your evidence …………

          • Amy

            This happened about three point five billion years ago. Carbon is the most violate element on the periodic table so it is not surprising the chemical reaction started there.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            but NO EVIDENCE …….. and only SPECULATION …….

          • Amy

            That is the farthest back that we have fossil records of single celled organisms.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you have no fossil evidence of your assertion ……… you have speculation ……. only ……

          • Amy

            We have fossils that old; now you are denying biology. Your question should be how did life form? Which is what science is working on!

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            WHERE do you have any fossil evidence of YOUR assertions ……. again …. HOW did the INANIMATE become ANIMATE …………

          • Beamer

            working on. Science has been working on that for centuries, and it has been questioned since time began. And look at that, they still have not found what they have been working on.
            But they found evidence that there was one cell organisms at one point in time. Wow. there are STILL one cell organisms.
            Just because there were one cell organisms then proves nothing because they still exist. All that record is able to be is that there was at that point in time, it does not prove it did not exist before that. Besides, God didn’t use the one cell splitting process. He made man and woman without that but put it into our beings to be able to reproduce and populate the world. It worked too.
            You really sound like you feel you are better than believers in God and that is sad, because even Jesus felt we were all equal and that we should all love each other.
            “You” can keep searching for all the answers you want, but unless God chooses to open your eyes to things, you won’t understand. We all have things that happen in our lives that we do not understand why they happened, and we are supposed to find out those reasons when we are in heaven. I don’t know if they find that out in hell though.
            It is sad because it sounds like you will die never knowing (while you were alive) that there is a God who loves you. When your dead, it will be too late.

          • Beamer

            So you have no heart no compassion no love because all you are is an inanimate object.
            At least God’s creation know how to be kind and treat people with compassion and love. you sound like your creation was less wonderful than ours was.

          • Beamer

            You are crazy lady. Creation is about the living things on the earth, not about objects; and besides, did we build rocks or oceans?

          • Beamer

            Did you ever wonder if there was a God that created the first cell? did you ever even try to understand that concept of something that you don’t believe, or do you just believe because others tell you what their truth is?
            Where is your evidence that the big bang happened in truth not in theory?

          • Amy

            Well we know biologically women came first. Does that not make your deity a woman?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            and we know this how ……… right …. we do not ………… actually …. what we know is that BOTH are REQUIRED …. SO …. BY LOGIC …. they were created at the SAME TIME ………. i think that was in a BIOLOGY book i read once …. you remember BIOLOGY …. RIGHT ……… we were just talking about it ………….

          • Amy

            We know women came first because of how a-sexual reproduction branched into multicellular. You have nipples because women formed before men.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            again …. NO EVIDENCE ….. when did women LOSE this ability and WHY …… do you have any FOSSIL evidence of this ………. NOPE ………. so just made up garbage ……. no science …

          • Amy

            They lost this ability because mixing genes while creating a fresh body rids the new child of any parasites the mother harbored. Plants do the very same thing just over longer distances!

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            so WHERE is the evidence …….. there IS NONE ….. all you are doing is speculating WITHOUT EVIDENCE ….. and you are violating your own standard ….. if there is no evidence we can dismiss your claim ………. THNX ………….

          • Jerome Horwitz

            HAHAHAHAHA

          • Amy

            I agree; biological facts are funny!

          • Jerome Horwitz

            If females came first, how were they able to reproduce?

            Logic fail.

            Bye bye.

          • Amy

            They were asexual. Sexual reproduction was a mutation; eventuality you had species that could do both. Finally you had a stage were some species preferred sexual reproduction over asexual thus gave up the ability.

          • Beamer

            Only when they stretch the truth like an elastic band. Then those facts are funny!

          • Beamer

            You know the answer to which came first the chicken or the egg? Wow you must be rich!! People have been asking that for centuries!!
            Just because a woman carries the babies, does not mean she came first. After all that is ignoring the male involvement in having the child in the first place.

          • Bob Johnson

            The egg came first, by millions of years.

          • Beamer

            But where did it come from…. when did it hatch? And where did the rooster come from to fertilize the egg?
            Gee, even “knowing” that the egg came first still leaves a lot of questions doesn’t it?
            If it was millions of years… how would we know when we haven’t been back that far with ‘science’.

          • Jerome Horwitz

            But we don’t need to prove anything to you. Death will answer your questions. If you are right, you have nothing to worry about, and I lived a good life. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

            But if you are wrong….

          • Bob Johnson

            Pascal’s wager – if there is no God, then when you are dead nothing happens – everybody loses. If there is a God, then believers go to Heaven and non-believers go to Hell. Therefore, the only rational position is to believe in God.

            This assumes there is only two choices my God or no god, but what if when we die it turns out to be Odin or Kali?

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Also, Pascal’s Wager assumes that God would (if he exists) reward insincere “belief”. I mean, if you believe in God just because you think it gives you better odds, is that really believing?

          • Bob Johnson

            “If you’ve done six impossible things this morning, why not round it off with breakfast at Milliways, the Restaurant at the End of the Universe?”

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.

          • Beamer

            No, God will know if it is an insincere belief. He’s able to work that out.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Yeah, that just kinda goes with what I was saying, then.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            If your God would damn to me to an eternity in Hell for not believing in him, regardless of how good of a person I was or what I did in my life….then, in my opinion, that is not a God worthy of worshipping.

          • Jerome Horwitz

            If your God would damn to me to an eternity in Hell for not believing in him

            Wrong. You do it to yourself:

            “The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9 KJV)”

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            and YOU NEVER WILL … until God intervenes in your life …. if and when He decides it is time …. so what is the point of discussing with you His existence …. because EVEN IF it was proven to you …. as you just said “that is not a God worthy of worshipping” ….. so we have nothing to prove to you ………

          • JasonBeckman

            Pascal’s Wager. Pathetic.

          • Amy

            If I am wrong then we will have to spend our time fighting to subdue and defeat Yahweh. Luckily there is about as much evidence for that concept as the Lord of the Rings.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “BTW …. this is a CHRISTIAN forum ….. and the A PRIORI
            here, the PRESUPPOSITION is …… that God exists ……. it does not
            have to be proven as it is OBVIOUS”

            Horsehockey. The fact that this is a Christian forum just means, if anything, that most of the people here believe in one particular god. It doesn’t change anything about the truth or lack thereof or provability (if that is even a word) of that “presupposition”. Would you go on an atheist forum and say you have to prove God exists there, but not here?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            the presupposition and the A PRIORI is ALL the evidence points to Gods existence …. and nothing else needs to be proven …. that you deny the existence of God is YOUR problem … that your perception due to YOUR worldview colors and alters that evidence to YOUR liking ….. is STILL YOUR problem …… not ours …. and FYI …. this is NOT an A-theist forum …. and … YOU CAME HERE ……….

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “the presupposition and the A PRIORI is ALL the evidence points to Gods existence”

            No. IF that is true, it’s NOT a presupposition or an ‘a priori’. The definition of a priori: “relating to or denoting reasoning or knowledge that proceeds from theoretical deduction rather than from observation or experience”. If, as you say, “ALL the evidence points to Gods existence”, then that IS NOT an “a priori”.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            yes it is presupposition as we are not going to argue His existence …. if you choose to …. then your can talk to yourself about it ….. A Priori – adjective – existing in the mind prior to and independent of experience, as a faculty or character trait …. that is the definition used here ………

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “we are not going to argue His existence …. if you choose to …. then your can talk to yourself about it”

            Well, I’m not really here to do that, either. Notice, I wasn’t doing that. I do find it odd that you’re not willing to argue for something you believe in, but whatever….

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            i argue for what i believe in everyday ….. just not going to try to prove to you the truth that you will deny no matter what is said …. you have all the evidence ….. and you have been told that until God decides to intervene in your life …. what you have said ….. “I will not worship such a God” ….. is not going to change ….. and you are not going to change …. it is not in my power nor is it my position to give you verbal nuggies to make you believe …. God will do that IF AND WHEN He decides ……. my job is to PRESENT the truth ….. not force you to follow what you resist ……….

          • Beamer

            Why do you need proof? Why can’t you accept our belief as it is, and you hold on to your disbelief.
            I know there are ‘Christians’ who do not live in a Christian-like manner and who treat others very badly too..
            But not all Christians are like that – TBH I think the ones that are like that are in the minority – Most Christians believe in Jesus’ commandment to love each other. Unfortunately, we feel that we should not be spectacles, because we are supposed to be humble. So we don’t stand up (when we should) to prove that the others are not following the Gospel. We live our Christian lives being good people, helping others, caring about the weak and helpless. It’s just not a big thing for us because it is part of who we are, of our identity in Christ. The Christians who make a spectacle of themselves are not reflecting who Jesus is at all.
            So some of us can get along with atheists as long as we can both be respectful of each others beliefs, can’t we?

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “Why can’t you accept our belief as it is, and you hold on to your disbelief.”

            Hey, I’m quite happy to do that. Just tell that to people like Amos who I was responding to, he’s the one that has a problem with that, not me.

          • Beamer

            I have told him. He isn’t following the gospel at all. He needs to learn about the bible, that’s all, He must be a new convert. Some people go into religion because they are led to it by another person and just accepts everything verbatim without questioning or reading the bible themselves to learn for themselves.
            I don’t understand why some Christians are like they are, and I wish they would read the bible And understand it better so they can follow the gospel and without constantly focusing on the sin of others so much and have more love for everyone like Jesus wants us to have. TBH I feel sorry for them. I would never have turned to a God like they think their God is like. Hateful. Wanting to punish everyone all the time. I would not turn to him with my needs if I had a God like that. I’d be terrified that if I sin he’d punish me. Jesus was nothing like the God they worship. He wants people to love each other so they won’t sin against each other, but they have no understanding of the concept that love means you don’t want to hurt the one you love and won’t sin against them. If everyone loved each other ….
            I will continue to remind Amos that he needs to read the bible again, and especially the gospel. Hopefully he has a teacher that will help him with his understanding better than he has now.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “He must be a new convert”

            LOL! Try telling him that and see what kind of reaction it gets!

            Anyway, just to tell you a little bit about myself, I’m an atheist, but my parents (along with a lot of other family members, and other people I like in general) are Christians. Just mentioning that cus some people think something along the lines of “oh, he’s an atheist, he hates Christians!” Uh…..no.

            Or is that kind of a “strawman” I’m putting up there? Yeah, maybe a little bit.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ROTFLMdonkeyO ………………….

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Is that supposed to make some kind of sense? If so, please tell me how, because I don’t get it.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “Just tell that to people like Amos who I was responding to, he’s the one that has a problem with that, not me.”

            what a cry baby …. i cant believe you even made such a statement …. as if you were not capable of doing it yourself …. and for some reason you think Sharon at Home/Mama Barely/Beamer is going to make your case for you ….. and all you anti-theist guys want to come here and whine about “you cant say they are not christians” and “No True Scotsman, huh?” and other such blithering nonsense ….. but then want to send someone else to do your bidding … as if that was going to solve your dilemma …. and your dilemma is …. YOU HAVE NO TRUTH …. and you cant beat the truth WITH A LIE ….. which is all any of you ever bring in the first place …………..

            “If so, please tell me how, because I don’t get it.”

            YEAH …. i do not GET IT EITHER ………..

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Ok, for one thing right away, I didn’t even know Beamer was Sharon. If you saw the earlier conversation we had, I kinda had a beef with her. at the least, I would have not put what I said in the way I did if I had known it was her.

            and then…….”all you anti-theist guys”? You know Sharon is a Christian, right? Also, we’re not all anti-theists. I certainly know Sharon is not. I’m not, either. You do know what anti-theism means, right? it’s opposition to theism. I am not opposed to that. In the words of Thomas Jefferson, “it neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            was not referring to Sharon as “all you anti-theist guys” ….. but you know who they are ……..

          • TheKingOfRhye

            No, I don’t know who they are.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            hmmmmm …. you up vote their articles ….. or they up vote you …. but you do not know who they are …. okay … sure …. have it your way ……

          • brucewang

            Incidentally, “No True Scotsman” is a real fallacy. It occurs when people like you try to claim to be the only true members of a group (in this case, Christianity) because you claim a superior understanding.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ignored …………

          • brucewang

            “Ignored,” he said, as he clicked the REPLY button and typed in his answer, thereby completely doing the opposite of “ignoring”.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ignored …………

          • brucewang

            But NOT ignored! At all! Amazing.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ignored ………

          • brucewang

            And you DIDN’T ignore it! Yet AGAIN!

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ignored …………. AGAIN ………….

          • brucewang

            You haven’t ignored me ONCE. Not even ONCE.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ignored … YET AGAIN ………..

          • brucewang

            Why don’t you ignore me once, and we’ll see how that goes?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ignored one more time …………

          • brucewang

            That’s a lie.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ignoring the Batmang …………

          • brucewang

            Really? When did you do that?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            brucewang is batmang ……..

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            so all homosexuals are pedophiles …. ok ….

          • brucewang

            That’s not an example of No True Scotsman, but more like saying all apples are oranges. So, completely wrong. As usual.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            sure it is …. and it applies more to you than to christians ….. you have no basis to exclude …. SCRIPTURE does ……….

          • brucewang

            No, Amos, because your stubborn refusal to look at a dictionary fails you once again. The words “homosexual’ and “pedophile” are entirely different in their definitions. As you well know. But please, give us the scripture that tells us they mean the same thing.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope … scripture defines what and who is a christian … not the dictionary …… and many homosexuals admit they were molested as children and molest as adults … so “No True Homosexual” … is that what you are saying …………..

          • brucewang

            Scripture says the same thing the dictionary does. That it’s a person who follows the teachings of Jesus Christ. Some homosexuals might “admit” that, but most don’t. And the majority, including those who were molested, still never touch children. You’re lying, and guilty of a baseless hateful statement.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            so … “No True Homosexual” ….. ok ……….

            FYI …. mere intellectual ascent to a few bible verses and saying you “follow Christ” and spending your ENTIRE LIFE in a church does not make you a christian ……… saying the “Sinners Prayer” does not make a person a christian ……… satan acknowledges Christ …… and knows scripture backwards and forwards … and satan knows Christ …….. does not make satan saved …. and it does NOT make satan a christian ….. FAIL …………………………

          • brucewang

            What do you mean “no true homosexual”? The issue isn’t whether the person is a true homosexual, the issue is that you keep saying a homosexual is the same thing as a pedophile. Your lies are getting rather desperate now.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            oh sorry …. “No True Scotsman” (Homosexual) is a pedophile …….. thats what you are saying ……….

          • brucewang

            You’re apparently trying to make your own inability to understand the No True Scotsman fallacy relevant to a separate discussion we are having where you insist that a pedophile is the same thing as a homosexual. No True Scotsman in where you claim to be a true Christian when other Christians here who disagree with you are deemed false Christians. You are wrong about both things but appear to completely misunderstand NTS.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope … you are bringing up a fallacious NTS argument that has nothing to do with christianity ….. and when it is applied to homosexuals ….. you try to make the same argument against NTS …… but christianity has a basis for it … and you do not ……….

          • brucewang

            Your “nopes” are getting so automatic now I wonder half the time if you read what anyone says to you. The NTS fallacy applies COMPLETELY to Christians who try to demean other Christians. You can’t call another Christian false just because you have a different understanding of scripture.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            NOPE ………oh wait …. sorry ….. NOPES …. christians decide who is a christian and who is not … BY SCRIPTURE ….. not a PAGAN like yourself ………. NTS does not apply ….. well, it applies to you and to homosexuals being pedophiles …..

          • brucewang

            No they don’t Amos. Just like cats don’t decide who gets to be cats. No True Scotsman doesn’t mean homosexuals are pedophiles. No True Scotsman means one person in a group doesn’t get to decide who are considered “true” members of that group. Completely unrelated…as you well know.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you are not a christian … you do not nor can you articulate from scripture what a christian is …. you have no basis to make that judgement …. and YES …. one person DOES get to decide who is and who is not ….. and that person is Christ … and He has revealed in SCRIPTURE what that is …………

          • brucewang

            I used to be a Christian. When I saw the kinds of people like yourself proclaiming hate as love I left it. And yes I was a True Scotsman, I mean Christian.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            no you never were ……. fail ………..

          • brucewang

            THAT
            is the NO TRUE SCOTSMAN fallacy. Right there.

            It happens when people try to claim who and who is not a Christian. You said Christians were exempt from it? No. They aren’t. You just committed the fallacy.

            You FAIL.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope …. that is your admission you never were ………..

            1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

          • brucewang

            I was a Christian. You don’t know me. You are in no position to state. You have not been given the authority to say who is or isn’t a Christian.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope … you are a “never was” ………….. and i am in every position and authority granted by the scriptures to judge it ……… and you are an admitted pagan …. and in no position to judge …….

          • brucewang

            You know nothing about people you have not met. And you are proving yourself to be the worst abuser of the No True Scotsman fallacy I have ever seen in my life. You know ZERO.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            i know what you have told me and every one here who has read what you said … you reveal yourself in your own pride …. you are a NEVER WAS …………

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “It is only in proportion as the Christian manifests the fruit of a genuine conversion that he is entitled to regard himself and be regarded by others as one of the called and elect of God. It is just in proportion as we add to our faith the other Christian graces that we have solid ground on which to rest in the assurance we belong to the family of Christ. It is not those who are governed by self-will, but “as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God” (Rom. 8:14).” – A. W. Pink

            “Thousands are deceived into supposing that they have “accepted Christ” as their “personal Savior”, who have not first received Him as their LORD.” – A. W. Pink

            “The nature of Christ’s salvation is woefully misrepresented by the present-day evangelist. He announces a Savior from Hell rather than a Savior from sin. And that is why so many are fatally deceived, for there are multitudes who wish to escape the Lake of fire who have no desire to be delivered from their carnality and worldliness.” – A. W. Pink

          • brucewang

            A. W. Pink is wrong. That was easy.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope … you are wrong ……. even easier ….

          • brucewang

            Negative, sir. If you have to rely on the online ranting of bigots you have no case.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            so we can dismiss you then …. thnx …. ignored ………….

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “just because you do not see something does not prove it does not exist”

            That is absolutely right. But, if you don’t see something, or have some sort of evidence that something exists, should you believe that it exists?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            all the evidence points to the existence of God ……. just because i have never seen Him does not negate the evidence that points to Him ……. or His existence ….

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Well, okay, you believe there is evidence for the existence of God. Fine. I disagree, as should be obvious by now. What you’re saying sounds like I should believe in God (your particular version of God at that) because I can’t prove he DOES NOT exist. Well, there’s about a million things I can’t disprove, so should I believe in all of those?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you do not believe God because you cannot HEAR God because He has not intervened in your life ………. proof of His existence means nothing to you and you do not accept it …. and you never will …. until God intervenes ….. so what would be the point of showing you things you already deny …. so you can deny them yet once again ………… the evidence is abundant …. you deny any evidence presented ….

          • TheKingOfRhye

            So, you’re essentially saying it’s God’s fault I’m an atheist?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope … we ALL begin as A-theists ……… we ALL begin in the same place ….. you bear ultimate responsibility for what you are, what you believe or do not believe and your acts ….. you have FULL “FREE WILL” to act ….. including choosing God ……. but you will only act ACCORDING to your nature ….. until GOD INTERVENES …. God will act to change peoples nature as He sees fit according to His desires …. and He will refuse to act and let you fulfill YOUR DESIRES … but YOU remain accountable …….

          • Suzan Houchen

            The Bible has tons of evidence proving it true…..you need to stop playing video games and start doing your research before you proclaim lies when museums and archeological digs have proven the BIBLE true. You’re just a kid who is bored and has nothing left to do but good off online. Go back to your video game little girl. You are too little to be playing with adults who actually know what they are talking about.

          • Amy

            Petty insults should be above you! As I child I was taught the Torah and later I read the New Testament. What about either of those two books prove that Yahweh exists in the real world?

          • Jerome Horwitz

            Archeology proves you wrong. Thanks for playing.

          • Jerome Horwitz

            Archaeology proves you a liar.

          • Amy

            There is no archaeology evidence for any of the bible tales.

          • Jerome Horwitz

            Yes, there is. Google it.

          • Amy

            There is not; why not google some apologetic evidence instead of flailing.

          • Beamer

            maybe because you will learn something new? Try it, you might be surprised by what you find!

          • Beamer

            Try googling the archeological findings that show the bible contains facts. They even have proof of some of the people’s names that were mentioned in the bible. You should do some research on what you claim and not just listen to others who might be leading you on an incorrect path.

    • Erm… we do say the same thing about the Koran. And if the site’s moderators hadn’t removed my earlier post, you would have all the evidence you needed to show that you’re mistaken. Apparently, Christian News is afraid of facts.

      • p78

        The truth is pal you can’t handle the truth and because of your cowardice you want to remove the truth from the public. The racism that you claim is in the bible is a contrivance that you use as justification for your despicable cowardly actions. The destruction of other nations and civilisations was due to those nations practising evil like child sacrifice but hey I guess your ok with that. Had those nations been left to flourish and their practises continued you probably wouldn’t be hear.

        • LOL! A Christian telling me I can’t handle the truth. That’s rich! I mean, your whole belief system exists because you people can’t deal with the fact that when you die, consciousness ends forever and you rot.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            boy are you in for a surprise …….

          • Amy

            You can not really understand surprises after your brain dies.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            again …. boy are you in for a surprise …….

          • Amy

            Once again; you can not prove this and it defies everything we know about biology.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            which is exactly the point ……… biology can not delve to the point we are talking about …. and you have no evidence that “everything we know about biology” is all there is …. now if you choose to stop there … fine …. but you cannot make any definitive statement about what happens based on negative knowledge ….. and the knowledge that is available you do not accept …… and the knowledge we do have … says …. “boy are you in for a surprise” …….

          • Amy

            Just because we never stop learning about biology does not mean your brain can function after the tissue wares away.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            and WHERE is the EVIDENCE of that …………. and what evidence do you have that your mind is tied to the tissue ….. or even the brain …. are you making the claim that YOU, as a person, is ONLY the electro-chemical processes contain in that tissue inside your head …. and on what basis do you make such a claim ………..

          • Amy

            Literally all of the evidence we have on the brain is that it is connected to the physical tissue.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            no, no, no, no, no ……….. YOUR MIND is not your brain …. unless you have some PROOF and a study that PROVES that …….. if it is then all you are is just electro-chemical processes and you have no rights whatsoever as all you are is a flesh test tube and can be disposed of at will ….. SO …. WHAT evidence do you have that YOUR MIND is tied to the tissue …………..

          • Amy

            Your mind is a process going on in the brain; just like healing is a process of your skin. Once again literally all the evidence we have is that this a physical connection.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            so you have no rights ….. you have no basis for saying anything whatsoever is right or wrong or good or bad or really anything else ……….. there is no racism or genocide or abortion or anything you can really call knowledge …… you are just a pool of electro-chemical processes ……… and can be eliminated without consequence ………. at will …. and if you are …. we should not give it a thought ………… and if we just add the right chemical to your brain ….. then we will all see as you do …. as that is all it boils down to ….

            do i understand that correctly ……….

          • This style 10/6

            We have rights, we establish a moral and ethical order, we are tribal. That we die and rot does not mean that we can’t build decent societies.

            It really does not take belief in the supernatural to have a decent society, look at the Scandinavian countries for example.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope …. if it is as this person said ….. you are just a POOL of electro-chemical reactions …. and electro-chemical reactions …. HAVE NO RIGHTS ………..

          • Bob Johnson

            Rights are a human construct. We can assign Rights anywhere we wish even to animals, plants, rocks, or oceans.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            and you have no basis to differentiate any of those things …. if you are a chemical pool …..

          • Beamer

            Christians are the same make up chemically that any other human is.
            You are truly unreal!!

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            guess you have trouble following the thread … try again ………..

          • This style 10/6

            It is as Amy says and I have the right to my life, the peaceful enjoyment of my property, the right to remain silent, to habeus corpus, trial by my peers, etc, etc. No god is needed for any of these.

            How is it that I can lead a peaceful and prosperous existence without a belief in any god? All these rights are embodied in our (Canada) parliamentary system and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

            We also have the right to the free practice of any religion which takes our fancy.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope … if you are a pool of electro-chemical processes …. you have no basis to claim any rights ………. no right to say anything is right or wrong … it is just a chemical pool doing its chemical pool thing ….. no right to say anything is good or bad … it is just a chemical pool doing its chemical pool thing ….. no right to say anything is free or not … it is just a chemical pool doing its chemical pool thing ….. no right to say anything is anything … it is just a chemical pool doing its chemical pool thing …. you have given up any claim to anything …. because all you are is a chemical pool ………. it is your lot in life …. not sure what happens when any chlorine gets in there ………

          • This style 10/6

            You are just being ridiculous.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            i did not come up with this RIDICULOUS theory of a electro-chemical pool … Amy did ….

          • This style 10/6

            You certainly refuse to face the facts. Like life as a whole the human brain works by electrical and chemical reactions. This is not a theory, Amy is stating an obvious fact.

            How do you think the human body works?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            the MIND is not the BRAIN ….. there is no connection between the TISSUE and its processes ….. and the THOUGHTS it produces ………. nope ………..

          • This style 10/6

            You do know that brain activity can be measured, don’t you. Where do you think thoughts, commands that keep you breathing, make you want a coffee or write a sonnet, come from?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            it is called the autonomic system of the brain …. it requires pretty much NO THOUGHT ….. sonnets …. not the same activity ………. that is not the brain ….. that is the mind … the mind controls the brain … and research shows the mind can ALTER the chemistry by THOUGHT ALONE …….. the mind controls the brain …. not the other way around …….

          • This style 10/6

            What is the process of thought? There must be some mechanism putting it into action.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            much of what we do from moment to moment …. like breathing or seeing or such things …. it happens automatically ….. we do not sit and think “well, time to take a breath again” …. and when we are asleep …. all of those things continue …. its a sort of autopilot …. so thought but not an active process that we have to continually initiate ….. your heart beats automatically in much the same fashion …. the heart muscle for periods of time does not need the brain to even function …. it will beat on its own without input ….it has a type of muscle (cardiac muscle) that will automatically fire the nerves and beat …. it wont last forever on its own but it is a built in sort of “failsafe” mechanism …. the mind is separate from the tissue …. even those who are trying to unite consciousness with machine recognize this …. they are not going to “upload” your consciousness with a brain transplant ………. there is a mechanism that puts the mind into action …. but you are not going to like the answer ……….

          • This style 10/6

            there is a mechanism that puts the mind into action …. but you are not going to like the answer ……….
            The answer is—-the BRAIN.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope … the answer is God ………

          • This style 10/6

            Dream on!

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            like is said …. told you you would not like it …….

          • Bob Johnson

            So, adding more chemicals, such as LSD, will not effect the THOUGHTS that are produced?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            it alters the inputs to the brain … and thus alters perception …. but the mind and the brain are not one in the same ……….

          • Bob Johnson

            So are you saying that since there is no connection between the MIND and BRAIN and that perception is altered by inputs of chemicals but thoughts are not effected? This would mean that perceptions are not thoughts. Please explain.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            no … i did not say there was no connection …. the mind is connected to the bladder also …. but the mind is in control of both ….. and chemicals can alter perception …. like having “beer goggles” ….. but the mind is still in control …. although it may have temporary difficulty maintaining that control ….. guns shots can have the same effect ………..

          • Beamer

            Where is the mind in the body?
            Where is the brain in the body?
            Get an education sheesh….

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            how long have you been in the medical field ………..

          • Beamer

            Why? do you think you know more about the medical field than the general public because you believe in God?
            And why would you believe an opinion (of Man) without any proof at all.
            I don’t need a medical degree to know what is proven to be true and what is an opinion / theory.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ignored ………..

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            your mind is not “brain gas” …………..

            “Dualism is the concept that our mind is more than just our brain. This concept entails that our mind has a non-material, spiritual dimension that includes consciousness and possibly an eternal attribute. One way to understand this concept is to consider our self as a container including our physical body and physical brain along with a separate non-physical mind, spirit, or soul. The mind, spirit, or soul is considered the conscious part that manifests itself through the brain in a similar way that picture waves and sound waves manifest themselves through a television set. The picture and sound waves are also non-material just like the mind, spirit, or soul.

            The alternative concept is materialism. Materialism holds that everything in our universe is made from physical materials including the human mind or brain and that spiritual attributes do not exist in the universe. This concept holds that our mind and brain are one and the same.

            If dualism is not true, the mind is limited to the physical brain. Assuming this scenario, what kind of a mind would we expect? We certainly would not expect to have consciousness strictly from materials. Perhaps we could expect to see a mechanical mind similar to a computer that is run by a program. We would not expect things like consciousness, sensations, thoughts, emotions, desires, beliefs, and free choice. Such a mind would behave in a deterministic way based upon the laws of matter. Many scientists and philosophers are now concluding that the laws of chemistry and physics cannot explain the experience of consciousness in human beings.

            We would not expect people with such a mind to be responsible for their behavior because everything they do is determined by the attributes of matter. We all know that is absurd. Also, we could not trust our minds since they are just a random collection of materials not produced by an intelligent mind.” ~ Devraj Wodeyar

          • Beamer

            Do you believe everything you read. This person is crazy to think that the mind and the brain are two different entities and that they work separately (at least that is what I am reading from this)
            Obviously he does not understand the Omnipotence of God because God put everything together in a way that this man does not grasp. He sounds like a scientist that wants to prove a concept that he cannot prove.
            This is what this man believes, it is an opinion not fact.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ignored ……….

          • Jerome Horwitz

            If that’s how you wish to live your life, that’s fine.

          • This style 10/6

            I would imagine it would suit most people. I don’t suppose you want to become a member of a biker gang.

          • Lydia Church

            The physical dies. The spiritual goes on. There is a spirit world. Believe it now, or find out later. Bye!

          • Amy

            Please define what the word “spiritual” means.

          • ShemSilber2

            Shalom, Brother Amos. It’s good to see you again.
            We can talk to these scoffers until we’re blue in the face, but with their eyes and ears all plugged with lies, it’s hard for them to hear or see anything right.
            Ask Noah and his grandfather Methusaleh. They warned the people about their violence and abominable practices for 120 years, but who listened. Then when the waters began to rise, they cried out to be let into the Ark, but the Master Yahusha (Lord Jesus) had already closed the door. (He was there from before the beginning, per John 1:1-18; Colossians 1:13-17; Hebrews 3:1-3.)
            Even atheists and evolutionists are included in the declaration by our Father Yahuwah in Isaiah 45:23, that Paul repeats in Romans 14:11 and Philippians 2:5-11, that EVERY knee will bow and EVERY tongue confess to the Master Yahusha, and maybe some of them will even come to do so willingly.
            HalleluYAH and amein!

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            good to hear from you also ……….

          • Suzan Houchen

            There are many recorded events of people who have died and been brought back who have seen an afterlife. Proof is out there but you have to get your head out of the sand.

          • Amy

            Many people have what they call ‘near death experiences’ but there is no reason to think a dying brain is going to more functional then a non-dying one.

          • Suzan Houchen

            get your head out of the sand. We have people DOCUMENTED who died and were brought back who saw relatives they did not know existed in other families. Perry Stone had a lady who told him she saw his daughter in Heaven. Nobody knew Perry’s wife had a miscarriage but the child was seen in Heaven and it was the same sex she lost.
            I had 12 inches of colon cancer and after prayer when I went in for surgery it had vanished. I had been healed. I have another friend who needed a heart transplant but God gave her a new heart. Another friend who had a brain tumor and after prayer when she went for surgery it just fell out in the doctors hand. DOCUMENT CASE AFTER CASE exist.
            I have no idea why you are so angry with God, but he is very real, and eternity in Heaven or Hell is very real. There is enough proof a God granted miracles out there to bury you with. GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE.

          • Amy

            We have many documented cases of people claiming near death experiences with almost none of them being coherent between each other. Multiple different afterlife’s surprisingly all with their majority based religion of that specific country.

            Not sure which deity you think I am angry at but my job as an anti-preacher is to make a more skeptic based community. Just be kind to others because it is the right thing to do!

          • Suzan Houchen

            You are talking in circles and when proof is out there you ignore it. Whatever the reason you are so angry, you are in grave error. Archeology has proven every story in the bible true, including the flood and the parting of the red sea. The more the world tries to disprove God and God’s word, the more they end up proving it true.
            Even athiest who has denied Christ have cried out at the time of their death. Christians have died with joy and peace as they went home, antichrists died in agony screaming it was too late for them.
            You need to do your homework kiddo. You are way out in left field without a way back.

          • Amy

            You are talking about people with damaged brains seeing the exact same stories of meeting relatives like is acceptable in western cultures; where as in eastern culture they have near death experiences about other lives.

            Never understood the ‘hating God’ concept because that would be silly! Hate is like drinking a poison but expecting the other person to die. We do not need a carrot/stick method to be good to other human beings!

          • Suzan Houchen

            go back to your sandbox and play–you can’t read, you can’t study and you cannot have an intelligent discussion. But most children can’t until they are 10 or 12. Best wishes little girl.

          • p78

            Ahhy you speak on Satan’s behalf. Hope you enjoy that cos you’ll be spending a long time wth him

          • This style 10/6

            What evidence do you have for this?

          • Amy

            Guess having a carrot like heaven does not work unless you have a stick like hell.

          • p78

            Hey Amy how you reconcile the 1st law of thermodynamics. ? Information cannot be created or destroyed it moves from one state to another. Your experiences are information. What’s the next state?

          • Amy

            First of all that is the second law law of thermodynamics. We are not a closed system; we have energy being poured unto the Earth from the Sun.

          • p78

            Tut tut the 1st law talks about energy/information changing from one state to another. The 2nd law talks about entropy in a closed system. I specifically referred to the 1st law.

          • p78

            I’m asking you what happens to your memories your thoughts your experiences the very things experiences that make you you. The information stored as electrical energy in your brain.

          • Amy

            It dissipates into the Universe. That is like asking where does the energy of an ants brain go!

          • p78

            Ok Quantum physicists publish a paper on evidence of the soul and your contribution is it dissipates into the universe. You clearly don’t understand the concept of information and I haven’t got time to teach you!
            Regardless and despite my lack f patience with you and your atheist mates you need to turn to Christ and repent sooner rather than later. Time is running out.

          • Amy

            There has never been a peer reviewed paper on souls including those in the field of quantum mechanics. Christianity is a literal cult; there is no such man who could resurrect himself from the dead.

          • p78

            Ok bye

          • Beamer

            So how do we have memories of what happened when we were children when we are really old? In your belief, wouldn’t those memories be dissipated into the Universe and therefore forgotten? Yet people have those memories all the time. How do you explain that if memories go away?

          • Beamer

            wrong! That’s not the energy they are talking about. Nice try though.

          • Bob Johnson

            But that is the type of energy that is described by the zero, first, second, and third laws of thermodynamics, measured in joules, BTU, etc.

            Do you have a different definition of energy? How is it measured?

          • TheKingOfRhye

            You know, I hear people saying that sort of thing a lot, and it never makes sense to me. New information can’t be created? Says who? I mean, you said right there, your experiences are information. OK, fine. But isn’t new information created every time I, or you, or any other person has a new experience?

          • JasonBeckman

            As if you would know.

          • Jerome Horwitz

            Coming from someone whose brain died when they stopped believing in a Creator…

          • TheKingOfRhye

            C’mon now….that’s nothing but ad hominem.

          • Jerome Horwitz

            Need a tissue?

          • JasonBeckman

            Fuck off Matthew T. Mason.

          • Amy

            Why would you believe in a creator?

          • Jerome Horwitz

            Because the idea that everything came from nothing is so bloody ridiculous a rational person would laugh anyone who said that out of the room.

          • Amy

            I have no idea what a ‘nothing’ is so if you could provide an example.

          • Beamer

            No need to be rude. Be a better person and treat her better than she treats you.

          • Lydia Church

            No, what is rich is an atheist telling Christians that they can’t handle the truth, because we know the truth and you are the one hiding from it. And no, your consciousness does not end, it is heaven or hell forever. But your body will rot. And no, it’s actually not based on that foundation, but again, that is truth that is unknown to you.

      • Suzan Houchen

        Tell us how you really feel about the Koran. Are you afraid to say that it is fictitious and that Muhammad who wrote it is a liar and a false prophet. Come on–say it. Don’t hold back. How afraid are you of Muslims that you can’t say it?

      • Jerome Horwitz

        No you don’t.

      • Jerome Horwitz

        No, they didn’t. I would be able to see if something has been deleted.

    • Cady555

      Mr. Bevin, the elected governor, did not propose semester-long Koran classes in public schools, nor did he use government resources or authority to promote the Koran.

      If government officials promote other religions, church/state separation groups will oppose those actions. But right now, it is almost entirely christians who cannot respect the constitution or the religious freedoms of those outside their own religion.

      • Jerome Horwitz

        Mr. Bevin, the elected governor, did not propose semester-long Koran classes in public schools, nor did he use government resources or authority to promote the Koran.

        But there are Islamic prayer rooms, for which the FFRF has said absolutely nothing.

        • Cady555

          Kids are allowed to pray in schools outside of instructional time as long as adults do not lead or participate. Schools also make space available for after school bible studies and religious clubs. This is legal. The FFRF doess not object to legal religious exercise.

          Read the Equal Access Act (a law written by Christians and signed by Reagan). Wikipedia includes complete text if the law. It lays out protections and guidelines for student religious activity and applies to all students, including christians, muslims and atheists.

    • Ginger

      We do not see them saying anything wrong about the Talmud, now there is a violent hateful series of books. Hitler practiced the occult was known to have a book about the occult next to his bed. His adoptive parents were Catholic. IF Hitler was Catholic, he only used that title only for political reasons.

      Ezekiel 18:4 “Behold, all souls are Mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is Mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. [KJV]

      People get confused the inner soul/spirit is not the flesh.

      Ecclesiastes 12:6-7 KJV “or the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. Then shall the
      dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.”
      This happens immediately upon death of this flesh body-the spirit is released without illness, disability, or impaired mental capacity. Ecclesiastes 12:14 KJV “for God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good or whether it be evil.”
      Isaiah KJV 66:18 “for I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see My glory.” [cannot con god, every knee will bow at Christ return, many to their shame] no I am not special I am
      loved by the almighty Father.

  • Not surprisingly, my earlier post which contained a number of Bible quotes were removed. Interesting how Christian News Network censors people who cite violent Biblical passages. Apparently even the Bible must be silenced when it contradicts what the author of the article says.

    • Amos Moses – He>i

      out of context passages prove nothing …. interesting how the scriptures make ABSOLUTELY no attempt to cover up the TRUTH of scriptures …. and you think it proves anything to SHOW THAT IT DOES JUST THAT ….. PROVING that it is THE TRUTH ………

  • mr goody two shoes

    Of course they do we Lutherans would not expect Atheist to love the bible there dead in their sins. Dead men can’t jump up and say we decided to believe and now love the bible. Only God can make dead men alive again .Only he can make the unwilling willing to believe.

  • Garden of Love

    By those standards, get rid of Shakespeare, Homer, Sophocles, …

    Guess who the book burners in the 21st century are? It’s not the Christians.

    • You’re right – the Christians prefer to burn people. But they can’t these days because the governments of Christian countries are secular and tend to look down on Christian mobs burning people at the stake.

      • Amos Moses – He>i

        so trying to justify book burning as somehow morally superior ………. WOW ……..

      • Suzan Houchen

        Do your homework. It is Christians who are being burned at the stake. NOW CURRENTLY they are being murdered in the most brutal ways.

      • p78

        More rubbish

    • This style 10/6

      Shakespeare et al are not used by cults to try setting their own arbitrary rules for society.

      Added to which they are a lot better written and a darn sight more interesting.

      • Beamer

        Actually it is really only intended for believers, not everyone. History had a lot of Christianity in it and obviously it had it’s effects on the society that formed at the beginning of the ‘New World’ and it certainly can’t be expected to be removed with one fell swoop considering the scope that it was used. It will take time, and no one can change that fact.
        The bible is for believers not nonbelievers. It is a guide to how to live our lives as Christians, but not everyone understands the lessons, and do not behave in a Christ-like manner.
        Nothing that is as widely spread as the Christian view in the USA will be able to be changed overnight, so there really is not much sense in complaining about it anymore since it is being removed at the rate it can be.
        I am a Christian and I am in no way evil, and a cult makes it sound like I am, just for my beliefs.

        There are good people and bad people and mediocre people of every kind so you should not generalize about anyone really. That’s how racism is created, by generalizing about a people, instead of pointing out that ‘some’ are like ‘this’.

        Christians are no different in that way. There are ‘bad’ Christians – meaning they do not actually follow what the bible says but like to call themselves Christians anyway – and ‘mediocre’ Christians who really just go to Church on Sundays and give a little effort to not sin and a little more for prayer and repentance. But there are Christians who are very good people who follow what Jesus taught us very closely, and none of it is about hurting other people at all.
        You have been exposed to the bad Christians if you think we are all evil because of our beliefs.
        there are many more Christians that are not about making “arbitrary rules for society”.
        Besides the rules Christians (are supposed to) follow are not arbitrary at all, unless you are not a believer. There is no randomness to them when you believe.
        Not that it will make any difference when the nation is insisting on taking God out of everything, right down to the fact that people did live their lives for the good of others because of him. All people seem to look at is the negative things about everything these days. History was awful and traumatic, I know! Lets make it so it never happened. Lets just say that every person in history did nothing to create the nation the way it is. History could not teach us how they were wrong to treat people that way so we will just write it out of existence and pretend it never happened.
        Taking it out of history will accomplish nothing except to take the lessons it taught us away too. It is how history is USED not how it existed that matters. If you just take everything at face value, it would be better to remove it and the people (the statues) that made it happen. but history is kept with the intention of letting later generations know what they did so they won’t (or will) repeat it.
        So give it some time and you won’t have anyone telling you any rules and you can sin as much as you want to. Heck go ahead and sin now. Maybe you can pull down some of those awful rules like “treat others the way you want to be treated” – which every child has to learn or be considered an outsider to their peers. Or how about Honour thy Mother and thy Father… there’s a bad rule.
        And the worst rule of all – Love each other as thyself. that’s really bad to teach people to do.
        You should consider the fact that all those ‘rules’ you make sound like they are against everything you stand for, are not all bad. And actually, what rules that Christians are supposed to follow that is a ‘bad’ rule in your view?
        When the rules were “set” they were what everyone wanted. Now they aren’t and now they are being removed. you should be rejoicing not continuing to complain. you have essentially won!
        If you don’t want to believe, that is your right, but it is our right that we can believe too. Leave us to our belief and stop complaining when you don’t believe. Our belief has nothing to do with you. Your unbelief has nothing to do with us. Our ancestors set up what you are complaining about – it’s a good bet that your own ancestors were involved in it too. So complain to them not us. It is not within our power to remove what exists as if it were not there with one action. It took years to create and it will take years to recreate. Find something else to complain about – this is just a waste of time.

  • MCrow

    Well, the violence and racism is somewhat to be expected from a holy text originally about one race being the chosen people of the one true God who ordered them to kill women and children. The Koran, Bagavad Gita, and other religions have similar refrains.

    I don’t have an issue with the Bible being taught for purpose of academic study. Many allusions come from the Bible. Similar to why I have students read about Greek, Roman, and Norwegian mythos: they’re important in shaping a lot of modern literary works. I do take issue with it being used in public schools for purpose of religious conversion

    • Amos Moses – He>i

      “a holy text originally about one race being the chosen people”

      misstatement of fact ….. the chosen people has nothing to do with race ……….. FAIL …………

      • MCrow

        The Hebrews were, in fact, a race. The descendants of Abraham were referee to as a race in various instances and permitted atrocious acts because “God ordered it.” Even in the New Testament, Jesus spoke to mainly Jewish people, and there was debate among early Christians if gentiles were to be allowed in. You can plug your ears all you want, but the chosen people (TM) are very much a race in the Hebrew Scripture

        • Amos Moses – He>i

          right …. but the ELECT are not of one race ….. and if you READ the scriptures … when the Hebrews left Egypt …. a FEW Egyptians left with them …. as they were part of THE ELECT and it had NOTHING to do with race ………………

          • MCrow

            The expansion of salvation to include all races is where the Bible stops focusing on the Jewish people. That said, “some of my best friends are Egyptian” is a somewhat poor justification as after that they are not mentioned

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            they most certainly were mentioned …… as part of Israel … and their “race” is not mentioned ….. as it was and is …. irrelevant …………

          • MCrow

            The fact that the Israelites held familial ties as paramount would suggest that the race is far from irrelevant.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            the only race, the only BLOOD God has ever recognized …. is HUMAN blood ….. and i gave you the passage ….. it said a MIXED MULTITUDE …. many people of that day intermarried …. those that God intervened in and brought them to recognize God as God …. went through a common baptism and became one people …. you know …. that whole MELTING POT thingy ….. thats where it came from …….

          • MCrow

            “An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever”

            “Now it came to pass, when they had heard the law, that they separated from Israel all the mixed multitude.”

            “In those days also saw I Jews that had married wives of Ashdod, of Ammon, and of Moab: And their children spake half in the speech of Ashdod, and could not speak in the Jews’ language, but according to the language of each people. And I contended with them, and cursed them, and smote certain of them, and plucked off their hair, and made them swear by God, saying, Ye shall not give your daughters unto their sons, nor take their daughters unto your sons, or for yourselves.”

            Galatians 3:28 is a lovely bit of show for the family of humanity ideology, and in that, I agree, it’s a good one, but that doesn’t mean racist ideology isn’t found in the Bible.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            the separation is for Gods called out people ….. His ELECT ….. His set apart chosen people …. has nothing to do with race ….. what you are quoting has to do with their people marrying OUTSIDE of the ELECT …. it was not a race thing ….. it had more to do with false gods of those intermarried with ….. not race ……….

          • MCrow

            Right…which is why the passages divided things along racial lines. Because it had nothing to do with race.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope …. groups of people in that time were used to all worshiping the same god or gods …. their worship was not christian or Jewsih worship as we understand it today ….. it was more of a group activity and based on what worked for them ….. they were “household” gods ….. people did not GO to worship ….. there was nothing to GO to to worship ….. they had idlos in each home and the god or gods were more for good luck of the household ….. and Israel was the ONLY one worshiping the God of scripture …….

          • MCrow

            That…actually proves my point. These were different households, i.e. tribes. They were wiped out because they were different.

            Look, let me put this a different way: colonization of Africa was often justified using the exact same excuses you’re using now. “They’re heathens! We need to convert them!” Are you going to argue that the exploitation of native tribes is exclusively because they were not Christian?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            they were not all wiped out because they were “different” …. and you are making blanket statements that are not correct …….. and you Africa parallel is equally flawed ………. if they were all “wiped out” …. then why are they all still here ……… FAIL ……….

          • MCrow

            Then why were the Israelites destroying them? You say because they didn’t know the Hebrew god. How could they? They were destroyed, down to women and children, because they were in the way of the Israelites. Manifest destiny at it’s absolute worst

            That isn’t what I said. I said the same excuses you used were used to justify colonization of Africa. I never said they were wiped out, though many cultures throughout the continent were, as were many Native American cultures.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            they were warned by God to stop what they were doing …. and that was killing their children ….. among other things ……… so they were all going to die anyway ………

          • MCrow

            So…the very logical response to “they’re killing some of thier children!” is to kill ALL of their children…

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            they were going to die in any event … and the ones that did survive would have been a later threat ….. and ACTUALLY ….. that was true ….. as it is in scripture because that is what happened ……….. a surviving child grew up hating the Israelites and raised an army against them ….. and they lost again ………….

          • MCrow

            We all die, but killing children for the sins of their fathers is wrong

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            They are all Gods creation and He can do as He pleases …. we all live or die at His desire ….. so ….. NO … you are wrong …………

          • MCrow

            So slaughtering innocent children is a-ok by Yahweh, eh? Well, glad I left that behind

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            there are no innocence ………. there are none good … no not even one ……….. sorry … God is sovereign and God does as He pleases …. and even though you pretend you have left Him behind ….. He is still in control of you and where He wants you to go …………

          • MCrow

            This is an honest question: why oppose abortion, then? They’re not innocent, and nowhere in the Bible does it say not to do so. In fact, there’s a verse that suggests doing so.

        • Amos Moses – He>i

          Exodus
          12:37 And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children.
          12:38 And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.

          here … where it says “mixed multitude” ………….. the word in Hebrew is:

          H6154
          עֶרֶב עֵרֶב
          ‛êreb ‛ereb
          ay’-reb, eh’-reb
          The second form used in 1Ki_10:15 with the article prefixed); from H6148; the web (or transverse threads of cloth); also a mixture, (or mongrel race): – Arabia, mingled people, mixed (multitude), woof.

          NOTE ….. “also a mixture, (or mongrel race): – Arabia, mingled people, mixed (multitude)” …. so NOT a “pure” Hebrew people ….. but numerous of different RACES ……….

  • Yep!The bible tells the good the bad and the ugly of it characters from adam to Jesus and the acts of the apostles .. unlike auto biographies today that polish the history of the person and conveniently leave out the ugly parts ..the Bible talks about the rocky road of the linage of even its favorite characters that ultimately culminated in the death and Resurrection of Jesus (the Lamb Of God) that produced the salvation for those that accept what he did for them on the cross (A free choice ..not forced )

    • Amos Moses – He>i

      Amen Brother ……..

  • awareoftruth

    God doesn’t see race. He sees nations.

  • Reason2012

    They rage over the Bible being supposedly violent, while in our days islam IS violent, slaughters people daily, and they rush to DEFEND islam. It just proves these type of people are pro-islam enemies of Christianity and enemies of America pretending to be atheists.

    And let’s look at what the quran claims:

    I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them – (8:39)

    Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book [Christians and Jews] had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors. (3:110)

    Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (9:29)

    Surely the vilest of animals in Allah’s sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe. (8:55)

    O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves? (4:144)

    O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk. (5:51)

    They indeed have disbelieved who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary (5:17)

    For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies (4:101)

    O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty. (9:123)

    The Jews call Ezra a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! (9:30)

    Listen not to the unbelievers, but strive (Jihad) against them with the utmost strenuousness. (25:52)

    Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of Allah and your enemies and others besides, whom ye may not know (8:60)

    Strive hard (Jihad) against the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is_Hell,- an evil refuge indeed. (66:9, See also 9:73)

    …He whom Allah sendeth astray, for him there is no guide. For them is a penalty in the life of this world, but harder, truly, is the penalty of the Hereafter… (13:33-34)

    Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace… (9:14)

    And fight them until there is no more ftna (unbelief, worshipping others beside Allah), and religion is all for Allah… (8:39)

    We shall punish them gradually from directions they perceive not. (68:44)

    Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): “I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.” This because they contended against Allah and His Messenger: If any contend against Allah and His Messenger, Allah is strict in punishment. (8:12-13)

    O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there be of you twenty steadfast they shall overcome two hundred, and if there be of you a hundred (steadfast) they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they (the disbelievers) are a folk without intelligence (8:65)

    Not equal are those of the believers who sit at home… and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and lives” (4:95)

    • The Bible is violent too – not just supposedly, but actually. The only difference is that Christians don’t really believe in its god, whereas Muslims do. That’s why Muslim states are often religious while Christian states are not, and it’s why Muslim states kill people for disobeying religious laws while in Christian states, that’s left up to individual Christians. There are a few Christians who still truly believe – they’re the ones we read about in news stories after they’ve killed someone based on what the Bible teaches.

      • Amos Moses – He>i

        men are violent and racist …. and the bible RECORDS it …. it is no more “racist and violent” than Tom Sawyer ………. because it RECORDS those things ………….. and it says that the UNVARNISHED TRUTH is recorded there ……….. SO WHAT ……..

      • Reason2012

        No, the Bible records the justice God imposed on nations for their wickedness, including even the nation of Israel. The quoran instead commands individuals to slaughter others in the name of allah, and they do so even today.

        The Bible teaches those who follow Christ to love even your enemies – that vengeance is God’s. So we obey God. Those who follow islam have as their leader a pedophile who commanded them to slaughter unbelievers and Christians, so they do even today.

        The Bible has almost two thousands prophecies that have come true after being written down – the quoran has none.

        The Bible has a great many scientific facts that scientifists could not figure out until as late as the 1890’s – the quoran has none.

        You can_kill people in the name of allah and the victims’ countrymen will help you build mosques in their own country where you did it – hand out a tract about Christ and it’s met with the utmost of hate.

        The grave of muhammad has his bones – the grave of Christ is empty.

        Using the “fact” that islamists will_kill you only proves what a satanic cult of hate it is. The fact that Christians will love their enemies and love each other is proof they believe God, as that’s unnatural to the unsaved world.

        Jesus even points out that those who hate others are as guilty of murder in the heart, so your claim the Bible “teaches” to_kill others is a lie you’ve been told.

        • This style 10/6

          The “prophecies” in tbe bible are either written after the event or the narrative is framed to “fulfill” OT “prophecies”.

          I don’t know where you find these “scientific facts”, which science couldn’t figure out till the 1890s. An example or three would be helpful.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Isaiah 53 ………. so your claim it was written AFTER Christ died …. yeah …. absolutely no evidence of that …. quite the contrary …………..

            FYI …. there ore over 300 prophecies (actually over 350) in the OT that were fulfilled by Christs birth, death and resurrection ……… just 10 of those fulfilled by ONE person in history has the probability of 1 times 10 to the power of 18 ….. that is already in the QUADRILLIONS to 1 probability …. and there are over 300 ….. “either written after the event or the narrative is framed to “fulfill” OT “prophecies”.” …. yeah ….. HORSE HOCKEY ……..

          • This style 10/6

            You misunderstand me. The NT narrative is crafted to “fulfill” Isaiah 53. In fact Isaiah 53 is related to events at the time, centuries before Jesus.

            All these so-called prophecies are like this or are written after the event.

            I note that you don’t come up with any “scientific facts”.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope ….. Isaiah 53 has nothing to do with the events of the time …….. it is completely prophetic …. prophecy is not about science so of course not ………. prophecy is not even a prediction ….. it is an event that … to God has already occurred …. so it is a sure thing ….. and it is for the believer …. the evidence of the truth of scripture …….. the event was told that would happen …. and then hundreds of years later it happened …. and the NT scriptures are written by eyewitnesses to the events when they occurred in time …. they did not all get together and concoct a story ……. no evidence of that …….

          • This style 10/6

            In fact the gospels and Acts were not written by eye witnesses. Mark, the earliest of the gospels, is dated to 66-70 CE. Matthew and Luke borrow heavily from Mark. They didn’t get together but did borrow from the earlier work.

            The gospels are anonymous and the names were attached in the second century.

            This is basic biblical scholarship, not mine, I just read others.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            all of the gospels were written by eyewitnesses ….. Luke was not an disciple but was an apostle and did interviews after the events of those who were eyewitnesses like Mary the mother of Christ and others …. and he also wrote Acts ….

            “The gospels are anonymous and the names were attached in the second century.”

            sorry … the written evidence does not support that assertion ….. but if it makes you feel better ………….

          • This style 10/6

            You should read some books on biblical scholarship.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            i am well informed as to the ACTUAL history of the text …. and the false scholarship of people like Bart Error-man and others ………… FYI …. if you see them on the History or Discovery channels …. you can pretty much can be assured they do not know what they are talking about ….

          • This style 10/6

            That you believe them to be eye witness accounts shows that you disagree with the preponderance of scholarship. However we will never agree on this.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope … the “preponderance of scholarship” disagrees with scripture and God and His word …. so i am familiar with them …. and hold them of no account ……….

      • Jerome Horwitz

        The Bible depicts violence, but does not suggest people should engage in it. The Koran does, and has been practiced as such.

        Good day.

        • Wesley Willis

          You haven’t read your bible, have you? Do you skip the bad parts or simply disregard them as metaphor?

          • Jerome Horwitz

            I read it everyday, actually.

          • Wesley Willis

            Do you skip the bad parts or simply disregard them as metaphor?

          • Beamer

            The New Testament changed how those bad things were dealt with, because it is talking about the love of each other, and it has no violence in the gospel at all… the Closest you can get to violence in the New Testament is when Jesus fulfilled prophecies… other than that Jesus did not condone violence at all.
            History of the world shows violence at all times around the world.
            Why should the OT hide the history of the people of the bible, just because someone does not believe in it?
            It makes no difference whether there was violence in the OT because that is the history that led up to the New Covenant. It is no different than the history of the Civil War led up to the United States of America.
            People really should just give up on trying to push the violence of the bible. it is it’s history. The New Testament has no violence in it. No wars, no big tribulations except about the end.
            I don’t have to skip the violence, because I am aware of it being there to help us understand the New Testament better. Try reading the New Testament and get a better picture of what Jesus has taught to us about how to behave, and what qualities make up a Christian.

      • Beamer

        excuse me?

        The only difference is that Christians don’t really believe in its god, whereas Muslims do.

        How presumptuous of you to think you know the minds of all the Christians in the whole time of the earth’s existence.

        I know a lot of Christians who believe that our God is a reality. Lots and lots.

        Did you notice some of the Koran verses mimicked verses from the bible. quite a bit of it has similar stories because they are an Abrahamic religion as well.

        You know who we hear of even more than Christians who murder? Christians who are wanting to make a spectacle of themselves (which would embarrass Jesus IMO)
        But you have no authority to decide whether we believe in our God or whether we don’t. You have the right to your opinion but it should be noted as just an opinion and nothing to do with facts.
        The bible is violent. When has this world ever not had a lot of violence in it – all over it?
        Most of our history books are about violence. Does that mean it is a lie too? And that most people don’t believe in the history of their countries?
        BTW it’s not just Christians that kill and it’s not always about the bible when it is. People have mental episodes whether they are religious or not and it has nothing to do with their belief if they do something evil.
        How can you possibly even think you know every Christian in the world, let alone know what they believe or not. You must really think of yourself as your own god. No one else can know people’s thoughts like a god. Unfortunately there is but one God and you are not him.

  • Amy

    Atheists pointed out that the bible is violent and racist. We already knew this so why is it news?

    • Amos Moses – He>i

      men are violent and racist …. and the bible RECORDS it …. it is no more “racist and violent” than Tom Sawyer ………. because it RECORDS those things ………….. and it says that the UNVARNISHED TRUTH is recorded there ………..

      • Trilemma

        Wait, you just equated the Bible to a work of fiction. 🙂

        • Amos Moses – He>i

          nope …. fail …….. just because something records events not to our liking does not make the record into what we do not like …………….. the bible is a record of events …. and it is not white-washed or covered up or made pleasant for our consumption …. it is the unvarnished truth of what men do outside of Gods intervention and what happens when God intervenes …..

          • Wesley Willis

            1) how do you know the bible is a record of events?
            2) if you’ve ever read your bible you’d know what god tortured and murdered millions of people (it would be billions if you include the people that suffered after the bible was “published”). are you justifying god killing so many innocent people? personally, i think that’s immoral.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope …. wrong …. fail …. “how do you know the bible is a record of events?” …. how do you know it is not …… we know because other things in scripture that men COULD NOT know have been shown to be true ……….

            “know what god tortured and murdered millions of people” ……. Nope ….. we are His creation and we are created beings SUBJECT to His Grace and mercy …. at His behest …….. He is SOVEREIGN ….. and you do not like that idea ……

            “personally, i think that’s immoral.” …. of course you do ….. you are unregenerate ….. SO WHAT …………….

          • Wesley Willis

            “…. how do you know it is not ….”

            that’s not how this/anything

            “… we know because other things in scripture that men COULD NOT know have been shown to be true …..”

            such as?

            “we are His creation and we are created beings SUBJECT to His Grace and mercy …. at His behest …….. He is SOVEREIGN ….. and you do not like that idea ……”

            1) how do you know that what you say is actually true? (no blind assertions)
            2) your god created sin, then “gracefully” and “mercifully” kills people for being sinful.
            2a) why do you think this is actually real?
            2b) why do you worship a thing that would send so many people to hell for ETERNITY for doing virtually nothing wrong?

            “… you are unregenerate ….”

            i don’t think you know what that means. i believe things AFTER observing the evidence. you do the exact opposite – you WANT god to be true and then try to find things that vaguely support it while ignoring the piles of evidence against it.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “that’s not how this/anything” ……….. ??????? ….. HUH? …….. “how do you know that what you say is actually true?” ….. back at cha ……..

            “your god created sin” … nope … wrong …….. “why do you think this is actually real?” …. again ….. back at cha ………………… “why do you worship a thing that would send so many people to hell for ETERNITY for doing virtually nothing wrong?” … He does not, they send themselves ………….

            “i believe things AFTER observing the evidence. ”

            a lie and no you do not …….. the evidence is abundant and you dismiss the evidence ….. and the reason is …. you are UNREGENERATE ………….

          • Wesley Willis

            for a troll, you are pretty illogical.

            “… we know because other things in scripture that men COULD NOT know have been shown to be true …..”

            such as?

            your god created sin (assuming you believe in some form of one of the thousands of interpretations of the biblical god). your god supposedly knows everything, yet put a tree in the garden next to a guy and a rib-girl. your god knew sin would be created.

            “… the evidence is abundant and you dismiss the evidence ….. and the reason is …. you are UNREGENERATE ………….”

            until you demonstrate that you know what “evidence” “abundant” “dismiss” “reason” and “unregenerate” means, we have nothing more to discuss.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “for a troll, you are pretty illogical.”

            i am here everyday ….. my comments are not hidden like YOURS are …. you have been here all of TEN MINUTES ….. on a CHRISTIAN forum when you CLEARLY are not a christian …. you have made all of 100 or so comments under this avatar ….. but I AM the troll … and “illogical” ……. i get it …. you are a joke …………

            well lets do this …. when you ever actually get around to reading scripture ….. and have a question …. let me know ……….

            “until you demonstrate that you know what “evidence” “abundant” “dismiss” “reason” and “unregenerate” means, we have nothing more to discuss.”

            BACK AT CHA SPORT ………

          • Wesley Willis

            “”how do you know that what you say is actually true?” ….. back at cha ……..”

            i’m asking you questions. the only statement of fact i made was about your god creating the conditions for/allowing sin to occur. for the sake of argument, let’s pretend that is completely wrong – “how do you know that what you say is actually true?” you made a lot of assertions.

            “. when you ever actually get around to reading scripture ….. and have a question …. let me know ……”

            done. now, how did you determine that god is real based on what the book says? how do you determine which parts are “literally true” and “poetry”/”metaphor?” do you agree that owning other people as property (slavery) is wrong?

            “”until you demonstrate that you know what “evidence” “abundant” “dismiss” “reason” and “unregenerate” means, we have nothing more to discuss.” BACK AT CHA SPORT ………”

            lets just narrow it down to one: evidence. what do you think that means? then, how do you get from an observation(s) to “my god exists?”

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            everything in existence is evidence ….. we all have the EXACT SAME evidence …… and it ALL points to the existence of God …….. and the only alternative to creation …. is accident theory ….. and if all you are is an accident …. how did you get here …… you have no proximal cause of equal or greater inertia to cause an “accident” WITHOUT GOD ….. that is the first law motion and conservation of energy …… so until you can answer what the proximal cause of all this is ….. WITHOUT stealing from the christian worldview ……. then you really have no answers …. and you do not anyway ……….. so TELL US ….. what is the PROXIMAL CAUSE of all THIS ……… and if your answer is it always existed ….. where is YOUR proof WITHOUT stealing from a christian worldview ……. and then WHAT set it all into motion ….. what equal or greater force DID THAT ………….

          • Wesley Willis

            That’s so full of logical fallacies I’m not even going to bother responding. All those assertions and no evidence. I’m afraid we are done here – ain’t nobody got time for that. (my questions still stand)

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            so it appears you are the one WITHOUT evidence …….. Bye ….. see ya, would not want to be ya ……

          • Wesley Willis

            I cannot explain it. However, neither can you. And if you say “god did it” then I will say something like “unicorns did it” (and I define unicorns as “creators of the universe”). Both of our assertions are equally valid (or invalid). EDIT: valid isn’t the right word. More like “there’s equally as much evidence for your claim about your god as there is for my claim about unicorns”)

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “nd if you say “god did it” then I will say something like “unicorns did it” (and I define unicorns as “creators of the universe”)”

            and i will say unicorns do not have the power to do it …….. and it is not my job to convince you of the truth ….. the truth is either accepted or rejected … you reject it …. okay …. SO WHAT ………….

          • Wesley Willis

            “and i will say unicorns do not have the power to do it .”

            but i defined them as having the power to do it. just as you are defining your god having the power to do it. we both have the same amount of evidence for our claims.

            “. and it is not my job to convince you of the truth ….. the truth is either accepted or rejected … you reject it …”

            your definition of “truth” seems to be “what i believe to be true.” this definition is problematic – they guy that thinks a different god (or unicorn) is real is equally (or more) confident that his god is true than you are of yours. so how do we determine which is actually true since they both cant be. i think the definition of “truth” is “that which is actually true, regardless of whether you like it or not”

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            the truth is the truth no matter what you believe … the truth is unchangeable … there is no “your truth” and “my truth” …. there are no competing versions of the truth …. there is truth and there is lie ……… there is no “gray area” ………..

          • Wesley Willis

            i 100% agree with what you said there.

            but guy A says god X is real. guy B says god Y is real. how do you determine which one (if any) is the real one?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            your false assumption is that it is our decision …….. it is not …. it is Gods decision to have you come to that knowledge …….. or not ….. God decides who gets saved and who does not …. not men …. not even for ourselves …… belief in God … comes from God ……. it is His gift ….. and He bestows that gift on whom He wills it to be bestowed upon ….

          • Wesley Willis

            “your false assumption is that it is our decision …”

            i agree that truth isn’t a decision, but you seemed to decide that your god 1) exists and 2) is the right one. again, guy B makes the same confident claim that a different god exists – you both can’t be right. how do we determine which one (if any) is the real one?

            “.. it is Gods decision to have you come to that knowledge ..”

            so god gives evidence of his existence to some and not to others? that doesnt seem fair, especially if the end result is eternal damnation. why would he send somebody to hell when god himself chose not to present evidence to said individual? doesnt seem fair.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Gods existence is not a “claim” …… here it is the presupposition ….. in other words ….. before any other discussion takes place, before one word is spoken ….. we accept that God exists …… that is the starting point …. and we are not going to entertain the idea that He does not ……… and if “guy B” makes a claim about his different god is god ….. then i want to know his or her name ….. and how does that god manifest themselves ……. so not going to deal with anything until that question is answered …….

            the True God of creation has revealed himself ….. and He has revealed Himself in the written form of the scriptures …. and the scriptures are the standard to measure all that by ….God is His word and His word is God ……… and that God reveals himself to each individual at the time He determines that person is to have that knowledge …… and many will never receive that knowledge ….. and they are not my problem ………… God does all the choosing …… men choose gods of their own making ….. so some questions would need to be answered to determine just which god “guy B” is talking about ……..

          • Wesley Willis

            “presupposition ..”

            im afraid this discussion is over. its impossible to have a conversation with somebody that claims to presuppose they are correct about everything. im afraid thats just not how the world operates.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            it is not how your world operates ….. but this is a christian site ….. AND YOU CAME HERE ….. we did not seek you out … YOU SOUGHT US ………… so WHY are you here …….. because you think you are smarter than us …. or you think you are smarter than God ………….

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            truth is either accepted or rejected …. you reject truth …. SO WHAT …. WHO CARES ……….

          • Wesley Willis

            sure, one can choose to reject or accept what is true, but i reject your definition of truth here. and no, i do not reject truth (my definition of it).

            again, if you are going to presuppose this supposed truth, there really is no more progress for this convo.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “but i reject your definition of truth here. and no, i do not reject truth (my definition of it)”

            OK …. wait a minute …. now just a few hours ago …. i said …. “there is no “your truth” and “my truth”” .. and …. “there are no competing versions of the truth” ……

            and then YOU said …….. “i 100% agree with what you said there.” ….

            so to sum up …… “there is no “your truth” and “my truth”” .. “there are no competing versions of the truth” …. “i 100% agree with what you said there.” … BUT NOW its …. “but i reject your definition of truth here. and no, i do not reject truth (my definition of it)” …. so which is it …. and why are you now saying there IS a your truth and my truth …….

            so you are either LYING then or NOW …… which is it ….. and as i said …. YOU REJECT TRUTH ….. so what …. who cares ………… and YOU CAME HERE …. YOU SOUGHT US OUT ….. we did not go looking for you ………….

          • Wesley Willis

            I did agree, but the difference is your definition of truth is different than mine. When you used truth in a different sentence later, I disagreed. Pretty simple.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            no, no, no, no, no …….. the DEFINITION of truth DOES NOT CHANGE …. TRUTH DOES NOT CHANGE according to the individual ………… and YOU AGREED ….. and now you stand as a liar ………… PRETTY SIMPLE ………….

          • Wesley Willis

            Yes, the definition of the word truth does not change, but YOUR DEFINITION OF TRUTH IS DIFFERENT THAN MINE. You are asserting what truth is (“god exists”, for example), which I reject. Truth cannot be asserted – what’s true is true. to be rational is to not accept something as true until it is demonstrated. Pretty simple.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            no … lie … there is only one truth and there is only one DEFINITION of TRUTH ….. there is no your definition of truth and my definition of truth …. you are now lying again …. there is only one definition of truth and any other is lie ………. ” You are asserting what truth is (“god exists”, for example)” IS NOT a definition of truth …. it is truth you reject …. it is not my truth or your truth …. you are making truth subjective and all that is … is a lie …. and you are a liar …………..

          • Wesley Willis

            “no … lie ..”

            im starting to think you dont know what “lie” means. what do you think it means?

            “there is only one truth and there is only one DEFINITION of TRUTH ….. there is no your definition of truth and my definition of truth ..”

            once again, i agree with this statement. the question is: how do you determine what is true and what isnt?

            “.. you are now lying again …”

            this is more evidence that you dont know what “lie” means. what do you think it means?

            “.. there is only one definition of truth and any other is lie ….”

            i think its more accurate to say “true” and “untrue” (and no, “untrue =/= “lie”).

            “You are asserting what truth is (“god exists”, for example)” IS NOT a definition of truth …”

            i agree thats not the definition, but you are asserting that god = true/truth. so can i call my blue shirt god? its true my shirt is blue. how did you determine that god = truth? (if you go with the presupposition route again, im afraid we are done)(and if you continue to accuse me of being a liar again, im afraid we are done)

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            i already know you do not know what the truth is .. and you have already pretty much said you do not ….. so your “proclamations” of the truth are hollow ……… and your proclamations of what a lie is are equally invalid …………

          • Wesley Willis

            all i want to know is HOW you know what the truth is and what methods you used to determine that. (if you say “presupposition” we are actually done because will will be unable to resolve anything at that point)

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            it is not “MY METHOD” ….. it is Gods ……. God reveals all truth …. He reveals it on an individual basis …. He takes the unregenerate sinner and He regenerates them …. He gives them His irresistible Grace and that draws them to Him and then to Christ and the truth is revealed in this manner and in an ongoing process …. and i get it that it is foolishness to you … it was foolishness to me for a long time …. been where you are … done that … got the t-shirt ….. and so there is no convincing you of the truth UNLESS AND UNTIL God intervenes in your life ….. so beyond that there is nothing to debate about who God is or His existence …. now there are numerous other things we can discuss ….. but i get the idea that is not part of your agenda ……… your agenda is that you want to prove your mental superiority by disproving God ….. Good Luck with that …. people have been trying it for THOUSANDS of years ….. you will fair no better …. God exists …………

      • Amy

        As long as you claim the old testament the bible was always be tribal warfare based.

        • Amos Moses – He>i

          Nope … the OT is ALL ABOUT Christ …………………..

          • Amy

            The Jews feel differently.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope … not all Jews …. there are Messianic Jews who accept Christ …. and scripture explains why there are those Jews who do not accept that ……….

          • Amy

            The vast majority of non-Christians disagree.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            and WHY do i care ………

  • Suzan Houchen

    Why would they want a book they don’t believe it removed? According to athiest, the Bible is fictitious. There are many “fiction” books in school libraries, are schools to remove them all? Do they object to all books that they don’t believe in?
    Somebody needs to shut these people down with since they don’t believe it is real, their lawsuits are dismissed.

  • Nedd Kareiva

    I have to laugh at these two unhinged Wisconsin buffoons who spend their miserable lives (trust me, they are miserable) worrying that someone in some government or public entity somewhere in the United States might invoke the divine in some manner or capacity. Perhaps their self-worth is at stake, considering they’re having to worry about what an out of state governor believes might help in his state’s largest city.

    Annie & Dannie boy are bothered by Gov. Bevin’s “inflammatory” comments & cite Charlottesville as an instance of how his comments will cause physical violence. I guess they prefer him to be silent, AKA, restrict him from exercising his 1st Amendment rights. Funny but I don’t see an exemption for public officials in terms of one’s right to speak, the same way I still can’t find that pesky “separation of church & state” clause. Try a little harder, Annie & Dannie.

    At least one good thing I can say about the ACLU (contrasted to the haters at FFRF): they defend inflammatory speech & they actively did so in Charlottesville. Their credo for incendiary speech is for more incendiary (or non, as the case may be) speech. The FFRF essentially wants to shut the Kentucky governor’s mouth. They could learn a thing or two from the ACLU. Perhaps they should. Granted, the ACLU might have an issue with any actions that occur as a result of Gov. Bevins’ talking points. But unlike the FFRF, at least the ACLU won’t seek to shut his voice.

    • Vaughn D

      Can you imagine what a train wreck their marriage is? I mean, “We hate the same people” does make for a certain amount of bonding, but only up to a point. Then it dawns on them, “I’m married to someone whose entire identify is tied up in hating people who have never done her any harm.” Lots of broken dishes in that household.

      I agree about the ACLU: they’re low, but not nearly as low as the FFRF reptiles.

    • Jerome Horwitz

      You know what? Maybe Governor Bevin should be the first to file a lawsuit against the FFRF. We now have proof their actions are little more than harassment based on anti-Christian hatred.

      • JasonBeckman

        No one hates Christians. But a lot of people hate bigoted assholes like you.

  • Lydia Church

    These atheists are the violent racists. The Bible is 100% justice and truth and mercy and love. And not everyone who claims to be a Christian is truly a Christian. I can call myself a car, but it does not make me a car. It is the Bible and the Christian faith that has made the world a better place, when it comes to taming the savages, civilizing the heathen, saving the sinners, giving hope to the hopeless, second chances in life, seeking the lost, freeing the slaves, giving to the poor through endless charities, and the list goes on! But these atheists are ignorant of true history. Putting more of the Bible in culture is a good thing and will benefit society, but stupid people don’t know that. They are blinded by their hate and want to push their ways on everyone else. On another note, we will not keep our religion to ourselves, we will share it all over. That is our God given right as well as our Constitutional right. We will do it no matter who doesn’t like it.

    • This style 10/6

      You can shout your religion from the housetops but we don’t have to listen. We will, however, do everything we can to stop you introducing it into schools, public institutions and laws.

      • Amos Moses – He>i

        its not that you do not listen …. it is that you cannot hear ………

      • Jerome Horwitz

        You will do nothing. You live in Canada.

        • This style 10/6

          We have these problems in Canada too. Not to the extent that you have in the US but eternal vigilance is required.

          • Jerome Horwitz

            If you like communism.

          • This style 10/6

            I’m sorry but you have lost me. Communism? How did that get into the discussion?

          • Jerome Horwitz

            You want a godless society. That’s Marxist. But you already knew that.

          • This style 10/6

            Rubbish!

          • Jerome Horwitz

            Is it?

          • This style 10/6

            Yes.

          • Jerome Horwitz

            Why don’t I believe you?

          • This style 10/6

            I don’t know why I am bothering to tangle with you as you don’t seem to have much to say. You equate a secular society with a godless society which is not the case. The US is a secular society but it is hardly godless.

            The main reason, it seems to me, for keeping religion out of government is that of accommodating the different religions and sects within those religions. What is it to be; Catholic or Protestant, Sunni or Shia, Buddhist or Hindu? You must see the problem.

          • Wesley Willis

            Lack of independent, rational thought?

          • TheKingOfRhye

            There’s a difference between a secular society and a “godless” one.

          • Jerome Horwitz

            HAHAHAHAHA

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            secular means WITHOUT GOD ……… Godless means …. oh my …. NOPE …

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “Secularism must be the most misunderstood and mangled ism in the
            American political lexicon. Commentators on the right and the left
            routinely equate it with Stalinism, Nazism and Socialism, among other
            dreaded isms. In the United States, of late, another false equation has
            emerged. That would be the groundless association of secularism with
            atheism. The religious right has profitably promulgated this
            misconception at least since the 1970s.” –
            Jacques Berlinerblau, Director of the Program for Jewish Civilization at Georgetown University

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “secular” means WITHOUT GOD ………. “of or relating to worldly things or to things that are not regarded as religious, spiritual, or sacred; temporal:”

      • Beamer

        As long as you do not remove the moral lessons and the manners and allow them to have their own religions in the schools I really don’t mind if you don’t want to listen. Our God gave us all free will to be able to make choices for ourselves.
        What you should be telling the Christians that do not act with love is that they should read their bible again and look out for that second commandment, it’s a doozy! Love each other…. that would really be a better rebuttal. If they don’t act with love, they are going against Jesus’ word. Fight them with their own beliefs.
        That’s what I do when I get annoyed at their superior attitude.
        Jesus told us that to be good Christians we should behave with love, compassion, and with the hopes that because of how we (are supposed to) act others will be drawn to Jesus. Obviously treating others badly is against Jesus’ commandment.
        And try to remember please that there are many Christians that are not anything like the posters here. Many, Thanks be to my God.
        Please try not to paint us with one brush!
        I’d like that, thanks!

        • This style 10/6

          The 2nd commandment says, “Make no graven image or I’ll punish the children for the wrong doing of their fathers”.

          Yahweh never had a problem with treating people badly.

          • Bob Johnson

            and the grand-children and the great grande-children.

          • Beamer

            No, that isn’t the second commandment anymore. There are only two Commandments that Jesus left us with. The others are covered by the two commandments. The first commandment is to love God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind and with all your strength; and the second commandment is simply this: Love each other as thyself.
            The Golden Rule is also in the NT and treating others the way you want to be treated is certainly not a bad rule.
            There was a lot of violence in the O.T. which was to lead up to when Jesus came to earth. But when Jesus came to earth, he showed us to love each other, not to hurt anyone for any reason. He even told us not to fight back – if someone slaps you on your cheek, turn the other cheek. He wants peace not war.
            Jesus changed a lot when he was here. In the end, his message was about love.

          • This style 10/6

            Ayone can co all that without Jesus. (Except the loving god bit).

          • Nick Halflinger

            Which presents a philosophical / theological dilemma. Does the scientific medical work to cure childhood leukemia conflict with God’s plan to punish the children for their father’s transgressions?

          • This style 10/6

            I’ll have to ponder that one! Must put Yahweh in a real bind.

    • Wesley Willis

      I don’t think you know what the following words mean: “racist” “justice” “truth” “mercy” “love” “christian” “god” (I could go on). Defining those terms would be the first step. Next, would be to prove it rather than simply assert it.

    • Beamer

      Did you know most atheists were once religious and started to question things and researched religions all over the world before making a decision about not following Jesus.
      I am a Christian but I don’t begrudge what others believe because it is not up to us to PUSH our beliefs on people but rather we should be teaching our beliefs to as many as we can spread the gospel to. Acting like nonbelievers are below Christians is not how Jesus told us to look upon them. All men are equal whether sinners or not in God’s eyes.
      If you follow Jesus and are truly a Christian, why do you focus on sin instead of the love that we are supposed to have for each other? There is no need to call people names and there is no need to be so condescending either.
      Telling people about the gospel does not mean acting like the nonbelievers are how did you put it “savages, heathen and sinners” because we are all sinners and that makes us the other two too.
      I don’t understand how a Christian can act like a self righteous bully when we are supposed to act like Jesus and he was never so presumptuous to even act like the God he was. You are not following what Christ taught us by behaving and talking like that about others especially who you have no knowledge of.
      If you don’t start following the lessons that Jesus gave to us to help us be the best Christians there can be, then you will be the one that is crying Lord Lord! not I.
      I rebuke you as a sister for thinking evil thoughts about other people – non believers. you think you are so superior to them you are Proud of that when you are supposed to be humble at all times.
      Perhaps you should read the gospel again and remind yourself about how a Christian is supposed to behave.

  • Lydia Church

    Oh, and I find it interesting that although the atheists are claiming to be against ‘all religion,’ it is only the Christian organizations that they always target. You never see them complaining about a mosque or anything else like that.

    • Jerome Horwitz

      This and their actions against a family who had a memorial in the form of a cross to remember a loved one simply because an FFRF member did not like it should absolutely eradicate any doubt these people are bigots.

      • Wesley Willis

        I don’t think you know what “bigot” means. You sure love using it though.

      • Cady555

        The memorial was not on their land. The memorial was not in a cemetery. None of us get to take over public property for our personal messages.

        • Beamer

          So what if it is not on their land. Where is your compassion for the people? The children who lost someone? They would eventually not need the memorial when they were passed their grieving, so why does it need to be removed before when it hurt NO ONE. seeing a memorial on the side of the road is always about death. If someone can’t cope with the grief that someone else is living, they can just go ….
          And all those personal messages wow I bet it took a whole foot of grass to put it on. it wasn’t on the road for goodness sakes. If you don’t like it Don’t look damn it. what is wrong with people today. Is there no love that would give another person the ability to grieve.?
          Anyone who looks at a cross and doesn’t see the grief is disgusting. who cares if they believe in God or not, someone who meant something died there. Can you not allow people their faith even when it is about the person who died?
          You are disgusting to even suggest that about public property. What about the 9/11 memorials that were placed there after the event and before they could make permanent memorials? A lot of them were about the Christians that died in the buildings.
          People put memorials up on public property constantly but if a family wants to put a memorial up where someone they dearly loved died, it is against the rules. No. it’s done all the time, this time some whiner saw it and decided to ignore what it symbolized to the family. They couldn’t keep their noses out of someone else’s business and had to complain about a small little cross in a memorial at the side of the road that most people probably drove by without noticing unless they cared about the person who died there.
          So you don’t grieve when people die, and never put a memorial up unless it’s only for your own eyes? Some people like to include others when they put memorials up…did you ever even consider how other feel before you decided it was not worth letting it stay for a short while? give me a break. If you were the one who needed something like that you would not act like you have the right to destroy someone else’s need to grieve.
          Try putting yourself in other people’s places and feel what they feel before you so callously throw out our personal messages.
          Do you complain about all memorials all over the highways too? No you can’t, so you come here to complain about one that helped a family through their grief.

    • Wesley Willis

      That’s because you didn’t bother to look.

  • Jerome Horwitz

    And once again, we have incontrovertible proof of something we already knew: The Freedom From Religion Foundation are anti-Christian bigots.

    As are everyone who defends them or attacks the Bible with lies.

    • Wesley Willis

      I don’t think you know what any of those words mean. If you don’t understand your oppositions point of view and then proceed to summarize it incorrectly, well.. that says something about you.

  • michael louwe

    Atheist communism is even worse, eg China’s 1966 Cultural Revolution, Khmer Rouge’s Killing Fields, USSR’s Stalin’s purges, North Korea, Cuba’s repression, etc.

    Maybe the atheists and FRF should immigrate from Christian-based USA to their beloved communist countries.

    P S – WW1 and WW2 were just greedy Western powers fighting over the spoils of colonialism – nothing to do with the Christian religion, which is mostly for the poor and meek/weak. In fact, God was cursing/punishing the Western powers for their greed and bullying of weaker Third World nations.

    • Jerome Horwitz

      Atheist communism is even worse

      That’s what these atheists are: Communists.

      • JasonBeckman

        Stupidest thing you’ve said yet, I think.

      • Cady555

        Thou shalt not bear false witness.

  • michael louwe

    The Bible is only violent and racist against unrepentant sinners/evildoers/law-breakers. Such people will have no part in the kingdom of God/heaven.

    1CORINTHIANS.6:9-11 = 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
    11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

    • michael louwe

      From history, in the ancient theocratic Jewish nation of Judah/Israel, atheists, idolaters, blasphemers, sorcerers/witches, homosexuals, adulterers, murderers and other unrepentant serious sinners/evildoers/law-breakers were put to death.

      The Jews and Jewish nation were commanded by God(= Moses Law) to be separate so as not to be corrupted by the evil/satanic customs, tradition and culture of the neighbour nations.(2COR.6:14)

  • PastorRon Aldridge

    To say that the Bible is racist is not only insane but, ignores the plain facts. John 3:16 states that “God so loved the “world” that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER would believe in Him might be saved”! Not part of the world, not “some” who believed; ALL! If the so-called atheists (there really is no such person; quoting Paul “Even nature itself teaches you there is a God”) would read ALL the Bible they would see that Jesus was the greatest unifier in the world; He made no distinction between the Jew and the Samaritan; He led Paul to write that there is “no difference between the Greek and Jew”; we’re all equal in His sight. God loves “everyone” equally, even the atheists who He will love all the way to the fires of hell, unless he repents and accepts God’s forgiveness for his sins; 1 Corinthians 6: 9-11 !

    • Wesley Willis

      you havent read your bible, have you? or do just ignore the parts that disagree with you and chalk it up to metaphor?

  • ShemSilber2

    Kudos to Governor Matt Bevin for expressing dismay at the removal of Bibles from the public schools. That has been under attack for at least 50 years. Longer ago than that, I learned from teachers who opened the day with prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance, and a couple of them even taught us life-lessons from the Bible. And that was in the Chicago Public Schools, of all places! But…

    When I read that so-called atheists were objecting to Bibles being in the public schools, my thought was, “Oh, that PAR for the course!” They do not realize the truth of the statement made both in Psalms 14 and 53, that the FOOL has said in his heart that there is no Creator, no Elohim. Also in Psalm 111:10 is the declaration that the BEGINNING of wisdom is in the proper awe and respect of Almighty Yahuwah. They don’t have an inkling of that beginning, and therefore they are standing up to their earlobes in QUICKSAND.

    Actually, an atheist does have religion, and the atheist himself or some stupid idea is the god of that religion, as if it were possible that accident or whatever is the author and completer of the great heavens and the earth and all life. Their suppositions about how the universe either came into being or has just always been here are just wild speculation and diversion away from the TRUTH that we have a Creator, the Master Yahusha (Lord Jesus), as the Christian at least ought to know He is, per John 1:1-18; Colossians 1:13-17; Hebrews 1:1-3. Of course, the atheist would deny this with his dying breath, much to his immediate dismay when he found himself in Sheol, where that certain rich man went and was quite uncomfortable (Luke 16:19-31), contemplating the coming White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15).

    Blessed are all those who come to know that the Master Yahusha gave the Torah to Moses for our benefit and joy, and not for a burden, as we were taught in Sunday school. The additions to and subtractions from the Torah by MEN is what oppressed the people, as the Master says, per Matthew 23.

    Even as Zechariah 14 says, the Master will set foot on the Mount of Olives and split it open so that living waters flow east and west to purify earth’s waters, and the Master Himself will set His throne in Jerusalem, ISRAEL and administer PEACE ON EARTH, and there will be no more atheists or other heathens, such as Islam or believers in other false messiahs or false prophets, for they shall all become the Master Yahusha’s FOOTSTOOL (Psalm 110), and we will have peace on earth for all the endless ages, amein and amein!

    • Cady555

      Kids can bring bibles to school. Kids can read the bible or other religious literature during free time on psr with any other book.

      School employees cannot promote their own religious beliefs or influence students to reject the religious instruction they get at home. This ia a good thing.

      Do you think protestant parents would be happy if catholic teachers in public schools taught their kids to pray to the Virgin Mary? The law protects your kids too.

      • ShemSilber2

        When I was in the lower grades in the Chicago Public School system, we had teachers who would open class with prayer, the Pledge, and reading from the Bible. Now children are censured for carrying a Bible to class, for witnessing to the other children, and even for wearing symbols of religion, unless of course it’s pagan religion, like for Islam or for the wiccans, both devil-worshipping religions.

        Speaking for me, I’m overjoyed because the Master Yahusha (Lord Jesus) rescued me from the churches and is teaching me truth instead. HalleluYAH and amein!

        • Cady555

          Yes. And people figured out it is wrong for public school teachers and other people paid by taxpayers to use their positions to promote their personal religious beliefs. They figured put it is wrong for teachers to violate the religious freedom of students.

          This is why christians wrote and passed the Equal Access Act which protects the religious freedom of all children, even those with religious beliefs different from their teachers.

          Kids can wear religious symbols. Kids can discuss religion during free time (but cannot pressure or bully). Kids can bring bibles to school.

          Teachers cannot tell children which god, if any, they should pray to. This is in order to protect the student’s religious freedom.

          • ShemSilber2

            There are two things that I am glad for:
            (1) is that the Master Yahusha (Lord Jesus) freed me FROM religion, because all religion is permeated with the devil’s lies, and
            (2) that He will soon end these Dark Ages and free all mankind from religion. You don’t even have to believe it to make it true, and disbelieving it won’t make it a lie. There is a new age coming: the seventh and final millennium of Yahuwah’s plan for mankind that precedes the entry of believers into eternity, in which all who elect to have the Messiah Yahusha as their Redeemer will be changed from mortal to immortal and will have peace on earth for all the endless ages. Then all these conflicting religions will become a MOOT (which means DEAD) point, because they will all be swept clean off the face of the earth.

            The Master Yahusha formed every last one of us in the womb, no matter what “religion” we are or aren’t, and He will see to it that everyone has ample opportunity to choose everlasting life in Him rather than to die the second death in Gei-Hinnom, the lake of fire that He made for the devil and his fellow demons. He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked (that’s US), but He forces nobody to choose life, because He will not violate the free-will that He gave us.

            HalleluYAH for everyone who chooses LIFE, only available through the Master Yahusha, amein.

          • Cady555

            I’m glad you found a religious belief that works for you. You have every right to hold those beliefs.

            But every child in every public school also has the right to their religious beliefs. Schools do not have the right to make your kids pray to Allah or Krishna. Likewise, schools do not have the right to tell my kids to pray to Jehovah or follow Jesus. No matter how much your religion means to you.

          • ShemSilber2

            Religion is hooey, to say the least. I gave up on it because it is so riddled with the devil’s lies that it’s hard to find any truth in it.

            Actually, parents have a responsibility to teach their children, per Deuteronomy 6:4-9, and the schools should not even be involved, but that’s the sick society that we have.

            What a travesty it is that in American public schools, there is lefty strong pressure to keep Yahuwah our Creator out of the curriculum, yet it is permitted to teach the children the 5 pillars of Islam. OY gevalt, already!

            When the Master Yahusha comes, the one Christians call “Lord Jesus Christ” but have miniscule understanding of, He will set His throne in Jerusalem, ISRAEL (not Philistia or Canaan) and administer peace on earth through the instructions of Yahuwah of armies, and there will be no more heathen no-gods even heard of any more. These Dark Ages are coming to and END, and a New Age is coming, whether one believes it or not.

            All religion will be gone gone gone gone GONE, and the Kingdom of United Israel, under the Master Yahusha, will be the final and eternal world-ruling Kingdom, regardless of who believes it or not.

            HalleluYAH and amein!

          • Cady555

            You have a right to your beliefs. My kids may learn about your beliefs when they learn about muslim, buddhist and hindu beliefs. You may not teach your beliefs to my children as facts or put up prayers to your deity for them to read.

          • ShemSilber2

            The Master Yahusha (Lord Jesus) has always been the one to save us from our sins, ever since He created Adam from the dust of the earth. You don’t have to believe that to MAKE it true, for truth exists independently of anyone’s belief.

            Your children, just like you, will have to make their own decision whether to choose life through the only Door, the Master Yahusha (John 10; Acts 4:12), the one who gave us this mortality for the purpose of offering us the opportunity of going from this mortality to everlasting life in Yahuwah’s Kingdom, and my prayers are indeed for them and for anyone else to go through that only Door, rather than to take the default, which is to pay for our own sins by the second death in Gei-Hinnom, the lake of fire that the Master Yahusha made for the devil and his fellow demons (Matthew 25:41), where those evil spirits are soon to be consigned because of their rebellion against the Creator Yahusha, who made them perfect, but they got the bighead and sinned by pride in their beauty.

            We get to choose between eternal life through the Master paying our debt for sin by His blood of atonement, or paying our own price in the second death, from which there is no resurrection, but nobody can force anyone to choose life or death. We each have the free will to make that choice.

            Blessed are all those who choose life in the Master Yahusha, who has no pleasure in the death of the wicked (that’s US), but choose life in Him, amein.

          • Waykent

            Adam never existed. Lying is a sin. Repent.

          • Beamer

            How on earth can you prove that about Adam? I don’t recall seeing anything in the media about Adam not existing. Can you give me a link to that discovery? I’d like to read the peer reviews.
            Lying is only a sin when you know it’s a lie and do it intentionally. Mistakes are different than intentionally doing something evil to someone else.

          • Waykent

            Evolution proves it

          • Beamer

            So first you have to believe in Evolution!
            Personally, I don’t believe they could prove or disprove something like that. They can say they can theorize the position but there can be no proof about it. Even evolution has not been Proven without a doubt, because there is no way to know what started everything; again it is a theory.
            You are welcome to believe whatever you want, and I am able to have my own beliefs. They may not agree, but it’s still our rights. We can get along even when our beliefs don’t match.
            You see, whether there was one thing or another really doesn’t matter in our lives, because we live regardless of the fact. Wanting to know is a personal thing too, because not everyone cares and are just glad they have a life to live. Discussing something that we have different viewpoints can be done as long as there is respect on both sides.
            I’m afraid I don’t agree with your ‘evolution’ theory. It misses too much about how the whole world is connected and how so many things rely on other things to survive at all.
            Evolution is not a believable thing to someone who believes in God being the creator. It just does not work together at all.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Hello again. I just saw this and felt I had to jump in and address a few things you said. Like so…..

            “because there is no way to know what started everything”

            Evolution doesn’t deal with “what started everything”. It’s just not about that. It describes how life got to where it is now from its starting point.

            “again it is a theory. ”

            Now, that is a very common misconception people have when we’re talking about evolution. In scientific terms, “theory” does not mean what you and I would take it to mean in everyday speech, as in something along the lines of a “guess” or a “hypothesis”. A scientific theory is (to copy from Wikipedia) ” a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. Such fact-supported theories are not “guesses” but reliable accounts of the real world.”

            So, we have things like theories of relativity, or theories of gravity. That does not mean that relativity or gravity are unproven things. We know they exist.

          • Beamer

            I appreciate the lesson King, but my belief in God tells me that it may be provable, but it still does not mean that God did not create the things that scientists are looking at. He created man and wrote about it, it doesn’t mean he did not do other things too, that were not necessary to the story of God and about the story of Salvation.
            The creation of people was supposed to be in one area at the beginning. Anything that happened in another place could still be God.
            But that’s ok, I’m staying faithful to my God.
            And if you and others want to believe in evolution, be my guest. It does not affect me, really, so it doesn’t bother me that others believe differently to me. It’s just not what I believe. (I know we can get along whether we disagree or not)
            Thanks again! I will remember about theories now! Blessings!

          • Bob Johnson

            “And if you and others want to believe in evolution, be my guest. It does not affect me,”

            Well it does affect you. You benefit immensely from all the research in diabetes, cancer, agricultural improvements…

            Nobody ever thanks those tiny NOD mice, yet they have done so much for mankind.

          • Beamer

            I will stick with my God, Thank you!

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Fair enough, I guess. Thanks for at least listening to what I was saying.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Just to add another thing to that…..there are quite a lot of Christians who believe in the idea of “theistic evolution”, or in other words, the idea that evolution happened just as scientists described it. but it was set in to motion by God. That’s the official position of the Catholic Church, in fact.

            here’s a quote that might be food for thought:

            “…God is not a demiurge or a magician, but the creator who gives being to all things. …The Big Bang, which nowadays is posited as the origin of
            the world, does not contradict the divine act of creating, but rather
            requires it. The evolution of nature does not contrast with the notion
            of creation, as evolution presupposes the creation of beings that
            evolve.”

            – Pope Francis

          • Waykent

            You are a Jew for Jesus. Ergo, you are lying.

          • Mark

            JayMak Waykent
            2 days ago
            Hi Waykent, I have noticed in the mod panel that you are abusing the flag option. It is not for censoring other CP’s you disagree with. That is a Disqus Terms of Use violation. If you continue this abuse, you will be banned. Lol

          • Waykent

            Is Jaymak a moderator here?

          • Mark

            Yes. Don’t you have some beef to go whine about to the mods as you yourself break the TOS?

            Lol

          • Mark

            Beotch slapped !

            What’s your response?

            “Fine”.

            Lol

          • Waykent

            How so?

  • 2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)
    16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: