Satanic Temple Wants Followers to Force Christian Bakers to Make a Cake to ‘Honor Satan’

SALEM, Mass. — The Massachusetts-based Satanic Temple, out of its dissatisfaction with Christian-owned bakeries that decline to make cakes celebrating same-sex “weddings,” is now asking its followers to force bakers to make a cake for Satan.

The group says that it came up with the idea in light of the Masterpiece Cakeshop case soon to be considered by the U.S. Supreme Court.

“[B]ecause sexual orientation is not a protected class under the Civil Rights Act of 1964, (whereas race and religion are), there is a good chance that the right to discriminate against gay couples will be affirmed as a constitutional liberty,” it wrote.

Out of the Satanic Temple’s fears that the court will likely rule in favor of the cakeshop, it has asked that those “who feel alienated or oppressed by the privileged status that religion holds over sexual orientation” contact religious bakers and order a cake to “honor Satan.”

It asserts that the bakeries will not be able to say no since religion is considered a federally-protected class.

“Because religion is a protected class, a baker may refuse service to LGBTQ people, but they may not refuse service based upon someone’s religion. If they aren’t willing to make a cake for same-sex unions, let’s have them make a cake to honor Satan instead,” spokesperson Doug Messner, who goes by the name Lucien Greaves, said in a statement on Thursday.

However, as previously reported, while the Satanic Temple contends that it is a religious group, it also notes on its website that it is “non-theistic” and does not believe in Satan or the supernatural at all, but only views the devil as a metaphor and a “symbol of the eternal rebel.”

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“[W]e do not promote a belief in a personal Satan,” its FAQ section explains. “To embrace the name Satan is to embrace rational inquiry removed from supernaturalism and archaic tradition-based superstitions.”

Some, therefore, consider the group as essentially an atheist effort to make a point about religion.

The Satanic Temple acknowledged to the Daily Caller this week that it is particularly upset that Christian bakers have declined to create baked goods for same-sex ceremonies because many members of the devilish group identify as homosexual.

“A lot of our membership is also homosexual as well, and I feel like there’s obvious reasons for that,” Messner said. “You know, we’re very into that kind of thing. There’s no issue of tolerance with us. And a lot of people who have grown up gay feel very alienated from traditional religion. So we have a very high population of LGBTQ community also as membership of the Satanic Temple.”

As previously reported, in 2015, during the unveiling of its Baphomet statue in Detroit, attendees shouted “Hail Satan” as two shirtless men pulled off the cloth that covered the figure and then embraced and kissed each other in front of the statue.

The group wrote in Thursday’s press release that if the U.S. Supreme Court rules in favor of religious bakeries, the Satanic Temple will host a party for Satan in “honor” of every unsuccessful attempt to order a same-sex “wedding” cake from a Christian baker.

“If you can’t get a cake for your same-sex union, we’ll host a party in your honor at The Satanic Temple headquarters in Salem and order a cake that praises Satan from your offending discriminatory ‘religious liberty’ enthusiast,” Greaves said.

Photo Credit: Billy Alexander

According to the Scriptures, one of the signs of the last days is that mockers and scoffers will arise, living in accordance with their own fleshly lusts.

“But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ: How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts,” verse 17 reads. “These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.”

The Matthew Henry Commentary on this passage describes such persons as “sensual men separate from Christ and His Church, [who] join themselves to the devil, the world and the flesh by ungodly and sinful practices.”

“We must watch over one another faithfully, yet prudently reprove each other, and set a good example to all about us. This must be done with compassion, making a difference between the weak and the willful. Some we must treat with tenderness. Others save with fear; urging the terrors of the Lord,” he continues. “All endeavors must be joined with decided abhorrence of crimes, and care [must] be taken to avoid whatever led to, or was connected with fellowship with them—in works of darkness—keeping far from what is or appears to be evil.”

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  • Cady555

    It really would be easier if bakers would just make cakes for all clients, just like they make cakes for the weddings of divorcees, gluttons, shellfish eaters and toy poodles.

    • bowie1

      It’s not who but what they are being forced to make. The above aforementioned satanists sound just plain mean spirited. Would “I don’t know how to do your style” be a good reason not to take on a job? That’s how it is with my drawing skills.

      • Cady555

        “I don’t serve your kind.” is mean spirited.

        A cake for a wedding looks just like a cake for a wedding. It’s usually white, usually fancy and has little if any writing on it.

        The product is pretty much the same as the product he makes every day for any customer.

        The baker simply wants to make sure the customer is treated like a second class citizen.

        Now the Satanic cake IS different, but protected by anti discrimination laws.

        • bowie1

          What about a cake with racist messages?

          • Cady555

            As long as the policy applies to all hateful messages, there is no problem. The point is equal treatment. The baker can refuse all hateful messages.

            But when a pretty cake for one couple looks just like a pretty cake for any other couple, it is the customer he doesn’t like, not the cake.

          • Croquet_Player

            I have attended dozens and dozens of weddings. Gay, straight, young and old, first-timers and widows/ers, and I have never once seen a wedding cake with ANY writing on it, (except for one, which had the couple’s first initials intertwined. Very pretty, and while it’s “writing” it can’t be considered a full sentence.) Every cake has been absolutely beautiful, from the strictly traditional lovely white confections, to cakes incorporating color, real flowers, silver or gold, etc., etc. I am absolutely mystified by people who seriously think gay people want slogans or vulgar imagery on wedding cakes. Where is this nonsense coming from? And of course if anyone wants a vulgar image or slogan on a cake, the bakers may refuse, and they are entirely withing their rights to do so. Please stop suggesting this is in any way a reasonable comparison. Just stop it.

          • bowie1

            I think it’s mostly about the appearance of endorsement.

      • Michael C

        A bakery would not be required to decorate a cake for a gay customer with words or imagery that they wouldn’t also be willing to provide for a straight customer.

        Neither would a bakery be required to decorate a cake with images of pentagrams or honoring satan.

        • Andrew Culberson

          A gay wedding cake looks no different than a hetro one. It’s not words or imagery that Christians bakers are refusing to add, it’s the couple they are refusing to sale it to, and the ceremony for which the cake would be consumed that the bakers are rejecting. From what they have claimed, it’s out of Religious Principles to not want to bake and sale a cake for a gay wedding. Those same principles I would assume, also apply for them not wanting to bake a cake for a Satanic person, to be consumed in a Satanic ceremony…but Religious Freedom goes both ways.

          I do think this sort of protest that these Satanist are preforming will be an interesting social experiment. I think a lot of bakers that they will target, it will not have the intended result. I strongly believe that many of these bakers do not want to sale their cakes to same-sex couple out of their own personal prejudiced. Holding up a religious book is just something for them to use to justify that prejudiced. – Indeed, many of these bakers who do not want to provide a cake to a queer person, will probably not take too much issue in providing a cake for a Satanic person, as long as that Satanist is heterosexual.

          In cases like that, I would suggest that the Satanist who buy cakes from those establishment, be sure to post many picture of the cake at your ceremony on social media. Advertise where you got the cake from, thank them for it on their store website, tag them on facebook, give them 5 star reviews on Yelp, and comment that they are the perfect shop for all local Satanist to go to for all the ceremonial cake needs.

          • felicityva

            “Indeed, many of these bakers who do not want to provide a cake to a queer person, will probably not take too much issue in providing a cake for a Satanic person, as long as that Satanist is heterosexual.”

            You are wrong.

          • Michael C

            I believe this notion is based on the fact that a representative of Sweet Cakes in Oregon (who had previously refused service to a gay couple) told a reporter for the Willamette Week that they would be willing to decorate a cake with a green pentagram for a coven’s solstice party.

    • Bill

      Tell that to a Muslim or Orthodox Jewish baker

      • Cady555

        The same rules apply to Muslim bakers and Jewish bakers and every other baker. Anti-discrimination laws apply to all businesses.

        They can choose their product, but they need to sell their product to whoever wants to buy it.

        “I don’t put bacon in my products” is perfectly fine.

        “I won’t sell my product to you because you eat bacon” is not.

        • Bill

          Like the Muslim cab drivers in Minnesota who refuse to take blind passengers with service dogs?

          • Michael C

            Like the Muslim cab drivers in Minnesota who refuse to take blind passengers with service dogs?

            I was under the impression that a cab driver’s taxi license would be suspended for up to two years if they refused customers with service dogs or carrying alcohol.

            What are you talking about?

  • Robin Egg

    These are targeted attempts against Christan owned businesses who will take a stand for their beliefs. They are not interested in having a wedding cake baked. This is harassment against Christians.

    • Andrew Culberson

      This could be the first time in history that a group has harassed another group, by giving them money. A lot of money at that. A bakery that specialize in wedding cakes are pricey. It’s not like buying a $20 cake from Walmart.

      Maybe the bakers could just donate the Satanic money they get to the church?

      While they are at it, they could also just bake the cake for a gay couple, and instead of keeping the money for their own personal profit, donate it to the church.

    • Croquet_Player

      Nope. It only seems like that to you because apparently it’s only some bakers who refuse service to gay couples, and claim “Christianity” as the reason why. There are many thousands of Christian-owned bakeries which provide wedding cakes to the general public, and no one is suggesting they’re doing anything wrong. (Except of course for those who claim they’re not “real Christians”, but that’s a discussion for zealots, and no one else cares.)

  • Michael C

    It appears that Doug Messner and the Satanic Temple are just as confused about how civil rights laws work as the folks at Liberty Counsel and ADF. The Satanic Temple is really doing a disservice to educating people about how non-discrimination laws work. Messner is wrong about several things here.

    Firstly, The Supreme Court will not be basing their decision in the Masterpiece Cakes case on the federal Civil Rights Act of 1964. That law has nothing to do with the case. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 is completely irrelevant.

    The Supreme Court will actually be deciding if the application of a Colorado state law violates the rights of individuals as defined by the US Constitution. If the Supreme Court rules that the state law is in violation of the Constitution, this will mean that around the country, business will be permitted to discriminate against people not just on the basis of their sexual orientation, but also their race and religion.

    Second, Messner’s comparison is fallacious. While businesses in some places can’t refuse their regularly offered products and services to gay customers, this is different than requesting a product decorated in such a way that the business owner wouldn’t be willing to offer it to anyone. For example… A gay customer requests a wedding cake no different than what the baker would sell to other customers: the baker cannot refuse. A “satanist” requests pentagrams and drawings of goats on a cake: the baker can refuse.

    Don’t worry, Christians. This guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

    • MichaelGC

      If the Supreme Court rules that the state law is in violation of the Constitution, this will mean that around the country, business will be permitted to discriminate against people not just on the basis of their sexual orientation, but also their race and religion.

      Let’s face it, SSM, unlike marriage which is organic and actually has a role in human society, is a recent judicial concoction, an elusive right obligingly found in the Constitution after 150 years. Some of us are just not buying it.

      The majority in Obergefell recognized that “many who deem same-sex marriage to be wrong reach that conclusion based on decent and honorable religious or philosophical premises,” emphasizing therefore that “neither they nor their beliefs are disparaged here.”

      We will find out next June whether they actually meant those words, or if they were just a ruse to get to the next phase of cramming SSM down our throats harder and deeper than before.

      • Michael C

        I don’t know why you quoted my comment without addressing a single thing I said in it. Actually, why did you reply to me at all? Your comment is a stand-alone comment. It has absolutely nothing to do with a single thing I said. Did you just want me to respond to you?

        …and you’re also misunderstanding how civil rights laws work.

        Whether or not the marriages of gay couples are legally recognized by the state or federal government has nothing to do with whether or not businesses are permitted to refuse service on the basis of a customer’s sexual orientation. These are two totally separate sets of laws.

        To illustrate this, Masterpiece Cake Shop refused a gay couple service in 2012. At that time, the marriages of gay couples weren’t recognized by either the state of Colorado or the federal government. The discrimination was illegal nonetheless.

        All of your complaints about Obergefell have nothing to do with the situation and whether or not gay people can legally get married will bear zero weight in the Supreme Court’s decision.

    • james blue

      While you well know my feelings on big government anti discrimination and public accommodation laws, I do agree with what you wrote on the technicality of the law as it. That said the roots of the idea as a strategy is interesting to me, even if the plan to execute it is lacking and I disagree with their end goal.

    • Chet

      Christians have no need to worry about such as all are on the winning side, the blood bought side of the redeemed of God made altogether possible by the Lord Jesus Christ of Calvary. It’s those who think they can have their cake and eat it too who are in serious error and who, one day, will meet their own dreadful earthly end only to then snap-out into an unfathomable eternity in Hell. God has altogether decreed what constitutes SIN and abomination, and, unlike sinful man, God never changes his purpose and position…

    • Croquet_Player

      Messner hasn’t gone into the details of what constitutes a “Satanic” cake. The photo on this article has some boilerplate “Satanic” imagery on it. But of course he will be requesting an ordinary wedding cake, just like they make for everyone else. Except it’s made for openly stated Satanists. “Hello, we’re Satanists, and we’d like this cake, shown right here in your catalogue. You refused to make it for a gay couple, but we’d like you to make it for us, and we will give it to the gay couple. Hail Satan.” As an added bonus, of course if the bakery is willing to put other religious imagery on cakes for customers, and has been shown to do so in the past, then they cannot refuse to do so for him. Cross, circle, star, triangle, whatever. Easter lamb? Satanic goat. Fair’s fair.

      • Michael C

        As long as the cake is no different in any way than any other cake the bakery regularly sells, I highly doubt any baker would object to the sale. That’s where the hypocrisy lies. And if that’s the point of this stunt, it’s purpose and intent will be lost on it’s target.

        Also, I really don’t believe that if a bakery sometimes puts some specific religious imagery on cakes, they would be required to be willing to put any and all “religious” imagery on cakes. Just because a baker has printed bible verses on cakes before wouldn’t require them to any bible verse on a cake. It also wouldn’t require them to put any passage from any other religious book on a cake. If it did, I’d be with everyone else barking about “compelled speech.”

        • Cady555

          It is a violation of federal law to discriminate on the basis of religion.

          • Michael C

            Federal law would not apply in this situation. A custom cake shop would not be considered a “public accommodation” by federal law. This would be a matter for state law.

            As I understand them, civil rights laws cannot compel speech. A business wouldn’t be permitted to refuse a regularly offered product or service on the basis of a customer’s religion but I don’t believe that would mean that the business would be required to give the customer whatever custom design or wording that they wanted. Azucar Bakery in Colorado turned away a customer who wanted a cake with religiously motivated anti-gay slogans printed on it. It was found that they were not in violation of state civil rights laws. The same was true for Cut the Cake in Florida.

  • YoikesAndAway

    These jokers are located in my neck of the woods. They are nothing but destroyers and I hope the bakeries in Salem of which I personally know a few, have the fortitude to tell these jokers where to go. Salem is not the evil town people like to think it is and has many, many churches and everyday people. TST, like the ignorants they are believe Salem is some kind of beacon when in actuality it is nothing of the sorts.

    • chronicintel

      I’m pretty sure TST chose Salem as their HQ because of the Salem Witch Trials and the similarity it shares with the Satanic Panic of the 80’s and 90’s, from which the idea of TST was first conceived.

      The SWTs were the precursor of the SP, and in both instances, peoples lives were ruined because of moral panics based on evidence that shouldn’t hold up in court (appeals to supernatural or psuedoscience, ie repressed memories).

      These moral panics were fueled by evangelicals and the religious, so the TST hopes abolish or reduce the effects of supernaturalism and its role in ruining peoples’ lives.

  • Jen

    Ohhh please come quickly Lord Jesus!!

    • Socialismo

      Yes Jesus. Throw your magical space cruiser into hyperdrive.

      • Jen

        Hmm.. ok… 2 Peter 3:3-4. That’s all I gotta say, read it!

        • DrFinster

          LOL. Scoff! Scoff! I’m not convinced. The “faithful” spin that stuff to suite their desires.

          • Jen

            That’s ok, you can say whatever or think whatever….to each his own.

  • FR

    strongly recommend christian bakers take two approaches in dealing with this nonsense.
    1) as many plastic surgeons do when dealing with a patient or case they don’t want to take but don’t feel comfortable refusing, the price is extraordinary and must be paid up front according to crazy (non-refundable) and rather biased terms that favor the seller
    2) make the cake, but it may contain an error and repeatedly remade “in good faith” … it can go on ad nauseum

    • Michael C

      It sounds like you’re saying that bakers should be jerks to customers that they’re not legally permitted to deny service to. This would be like Woolworth’s lunch counter burning the eggs of a black customer just to spite them. This doesn’t seem Christ-like to me.

      I think a better route would be to provide gay customers with the same goods and services that your business willingly provides to straight customers. Treat them with the same respect and provide them with the same quality of product and service.

      While you are providing your gay customers with the same high quality products and services that your straight customers enjoy, you can make your personal religious views on homosexuality and marriage known to them. Don’t deny them services. Let them know that you’re happy to treat them no differently than straight customers but let them know your views on homosexuality and marriage.

      Or… hang a sign in your window that says “We serve gay customers because we’re required to by law.”

      • Quince

        There are a lot of people, especially young people, who will avoid businesses that discriminate.

        “We don’t serve n***ers” may have been good for business 60 years ago.

        “We don’t serve gays” is very bad for business now. This is especially true of a wedding related business where so many clients are in their 20s.

        • Michael C

          I agree. These businesses generally don’t want to post a sign for everyone to see because they’re afraid of how it will affect their income.

    • Quince

      Is that what Jesus would do?

    • Croquet_Player

      There are a number of problems with your argument. First of all, a plastic surgeon may refuse any patient who requests something the surgeon feels is beyond their capabilities to perform successfully. Or, if they feel they might be able to do it, but it’s unusual and they’ve never attempted it before, they may request payment in full up front and a waiver of responsibility if the attempt fails. But they cannot refuse surgeries they routinely perform for everyone else, or request unusual financial and legal arrangements for ordinary procedures. Bakers may do the same thing. If I request an eight-tier wedding cake that is ten feet tall, a baker may say, I’m sorry, we’ve never done that, we don’t know how to do it, and we simply can’t do it for you, or anyone. (Or they can say, “Well, we’ll give it a shot, but you have to pay up front, and you have to sign this waiver in case it fails.”)

      This should go without saying, but you cannot deliberately include an “error” in a product in “good faith”. And it’s really quite appalling that you would suggest this blatantly dishonest and downright creepy act as a strategy to avoid serving the general public.

  • Bill

    They are not targeting Muslim or Orthodox Jewish businesses to cater to them. Clearly they are conspiring to violate the civil rights of Christians, therefore the Christians should counter sue them

    • MichaelGC

      They same people who argue that a Christian baker should just shut up and use his skills to design and decorate a custom wedding cake for a same sex couple getting gay-married have no problem whatsoever with a Muslim baker telling the same couple to get out of his shop and not come back.

      You are correct, this is specific to Christians only. In fact, one of the petty tyrants who comprise the Colorado Human Rights Commission said that Jack Phillips, owner of Masterpiece Cakeshop, was as bad as those who gave us the Holocaust. That’s the kind of creeps we have in positions of power over others these days.

      • Croquet_Player

        I must ask, where are all these Muslim and Jewish-owned bakeries which keep refusing gay people cakes? Seriously, where? And please don’t suggest I look at the Youtube video where a right-wing troll went into a Muslim-owned bakery, claimed to be gay, and requested a cake with…how do I put this delicately…”male reproductive organs” on it. They quite rightly refused, legally, as may any baker. He was not asking for the ordinary wedding cakes they sell to the general public. When Muslim or Jewish-owned bakeries refuse a customer who just wants a wedding cake, indistinguishable from the wedding cakes they already sell, then you’ll have a point.

        • vicnicholls

          Please do an internet search for a Seatlle coffee shop owner who is gay and how he treated Christians who came to his store. I find it interesting that when the situation is reversed and Christians go to order something that is not obviously against the owners’ beliefs, they are treated in the manner they were. PS This is not a Youtube video either.

    • Croquet_Player

      They’re not “targeting” anyone based on their religion. They’re targeting any business owner, of any religion, or not, who refuses a customer based on the customer’s orientation.

      • vicnicholls

        As I posted above, when the situation is reversed, they do target Christians.

  • michael louwe

    Seems, the LGBTQs and Satanic Temple are of the same feather(ROMANS.1:18-32), ie both organizations trying to get the vote-pandering liberal Blue State governments to persecute/prosecute Christian bakers, wedding planners, photographers, pizzaria, etc.

    • chronicintel

      LGBTQs do make up a significant portion of Satanic Temple (TST) membership, about 50%, last I heard. The main reason for this is they feel alienated from the mainstream religions that have anti-LGBTQ messages, primarily the ones that make up the Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam), and Christianity in particular in the United States, but still seek the culture of community, identity, and acceptance that religion offers people.

      Many people in the LGBTQ community see the hate and persecution they’ve suffered from those that are heavily religious as reasons to leave religion all together, and some stopped believing in God when they questioned why a “loving” God would design them this way, yet condone such hatred and animosity towards them (Leviticus 20:13, your passage from Romans, and parts of the Qu’ran). The ones that joined TST see it as a way of fighting back.

  • felicityva

    “There’s no issue of tolerance with us.” Really? You aren’t tolerant of Christians.

    • Croquet_Player

      Really? Who was trying to legislate against Christians being able to marry, serve in the military, or keep their job or apartment? Absolutely no one. Tragically, there are places in the world where Christians are genuinely persecuted. (Interestingly enough, most of those same places persecute atheists too.) But it is not “intolerant” to expect a business to serve the general public fairly and equally. If you have any reason why you don’t wish to serve the general public, you are welcome to have those views. But don’t try to open a business and pick and chose your customers based on unconstitutional reasons.

      • vicnicholls

        How about the coffee shop owner I mentioned? Are you condemning them also?

  • Today’s atheists, Satanists, Muslims, etc. have all been enabled and emboldened by the First Commandment violating First Amendment.

    Like a moth to a flame, Christians are intent on employing the genesis of their problems as the solution. In this instance, the First Commandment violating First Amendment.

    Religious Freedom and Christian Liberty are not the same thing. They are, in fact, hostile to each other. The former is born of the First Amendment. The latter is born of the First Commandment. In 1789, the First Commandment and Christian Liberty were formally sacrificed on the altar of the First Amendment and Religious Freedom. It’s the Klein’s Christian liberty that’s being attacked as a consequence of the First Amendment’s provision for an alleged religious freedom for all.

    It’s one thing to allow for individual freedom of conscience and private choice of gods, something impossible to legislate for or against. It’s another matter altogether for government to enable any and all religions to proliferate through the land and evangelize our posterity to false gods. This is what the First Amendment legitimizes. It is an unequivocal violation of the First Commandment and the polar opposite of the following First Commandment statute:

    ‘[Y]e shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves. For thou shall worship no other god: for Yahweh, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God: Lest thou … go a whoring after their gods….’ (Exodus 34:13-15)….”

    It’s the First Amendment that the sodomites, lesbians, and atheists hang their hats on and that they’ve been able to utilize for their cause. It’s likewise the First Amendment that so many Christians hang their hat on as if there’s something intrinsically Christian about it when, in fact, it is entirely antithetical to the Bible. It’s thus suicide for Christians to appeal to the First Amendment in any fashion whatsoever.

    For more, see online Chapter 11 “Amendment 1: Government-Sanctioned Polytheism” of “Bible Law vs. the United States Constitution: The Christian Perspective.” Click on my name, then our website. Go to our Online Books page, click on the top entry, and scroll down to Chapter 11.

    Then find out how much you really know about the Constitution as compared to the Bible. Take our 10-question Constitution Survey in the right-hand sidebar and receive a complimentary copy of a book that examines the Constitution by the Bible.

    • chronicintel

      On point, I wholeheartedly agree with you: the Bible and Constitution are incompatible in terms of the laws written in both. The Constitution is a secular document, and promotes religious freedom to worship any god(s) or not worship at all (counter to the commandments to obey only Yahweh), and freedom of speech (counter to commandments against blasphemy).

      Now the point where we disagree: the Constitution as the basis for law and governance is superior, in every way, towards having a better society than the Bible. What you are advocating for, for the Bible to supplant the Constitution in governing the laws of the land, is no different, in principle, than Islamic Shariah law. The Constitution is designed to be changed (or amended), to reflect the times and values of the country as it shifts from one era to another. The Founding Fathers had the foresight to realize that the country would likely be different in 100, 200, 300, or 400 years, and the rights and laws should reflect the will of the people through reasoned politics and debate.

      Compare all of this to the Bible. The Bible doesn’t change. The Bible makes many pronouncements and leaves very little room to modify them outright.

      The Qu’ran is very similar in that is unchanging and treated as the last ultimate word and authority. This is why countries that base their laws and governance on it resemble something out of the 7th century. This is why no major scientific or societal advancement comes out of those countries. This is why slavery is still practiced, women are treated as inferior, heretics /apostates/non-believers are killed/suppressed/jailed, suspected witches are killed, and homosexuals are tossed off of buildings and stoned to death if they survive the fall.

      What you’re suggesting is to take us even further back, 700 to 800 years earlier than the Qu’ran, to Biblical times, when slavery was practiced, women were treated as inferior, heretics /apostates/non-believers are killed/suppressed/jailed, suspected witches are killed, and homosexuals were just stoned to death (tall buildings weren’t as common back then). These practices were condoned by the Bible.

      Even if you were to go with the New Testament as the sole authority, you are still left with something that provides very little, and arguably counter-productive in some cases, in the way of how to run a functioning society, beyond a few moral pronouncements on how to treat some people. There’s also no clear explanation of rights or basis of law, as there are some who would interpret that the laws of the Hebrew scripture were never outright abolished, and others who would interpret that people are under a new law (or covenant), with guidelines that are not clearly laid out.

      To sum it up, we live in a society where we are exposed to many different cultures and beliefs, thanks to immigration and the internet. The world is a lot larger and diverse than anyone in biblical times could ever imagine. Civilizations and societies change, and if we are to function and cooperate with each other to survive, the way we govern must also change. Relying on an unchanging dogma presents significant problems when that dogma is challenged.

      • Thanks for helping to make my point and for demonstrating the inspiration and veracity of the Bible, particularly 1 Corinthians 2:12-14.

        • chronicintel

          Not everyone would claim to be touched by the “Holy Spirit”, nor would they have any justification for treating the Bible as any type of authority.

          You may have to live, live next to, or work with these people.

          How would you treat these people?

  • Lydia Church

    No one can force us to bake any cakes for the devil. Period. Christians will simply REFUSE to do it. That is the end of it. When it comes to ‘the law,’ people can go around in circles forever about interpretations and applications and so on. What we clearly see as protected by the constitution, we already see cases of Christians being persecuted for our faith in ways folks in the US never thought would happen, these lawmakers and judges don’t ‘get it.’ So we can’t hang too much on the protections offered. Yes, they guarantee our protection and it is a great tool to use, but that does not mean others will always uphold them for our protection. At the end of the day, all we need to know is what we need to do and not do according to the Law of God. We cannot deny Jesus, even when faced with persecution and death. We must obey God above man. Matthew 10; 32-33 and Acts 5; 29. The early Christians did not have Constitutions to rely on. They did not cower because they were being persecuted. They did not amount to mere ‘fair weather followers’ of Jesus and when the going got tough, they caved. NO! They bravely went to the lions to their martyrdom death in the strength of the Lord, rather than deny their faith. THAT is what American Christians need more of today!

  • Chet

    Ya’ll should believe in the Devil as you see him in the mirror each morning. He’s in you and you likely are unaware, yet, there may be some fully cognizant of such… Instead of useful idiots, the useful fools…

  • BuckeyePhysicist

    Make the cake out of devil’s food and burn it to a crisp. They’ll feel at home.

    • Croquet_Player

      I just have to point something out here. I love to cook and I owned a catering company for years. I consider making food for someone, a relative, a friend, or a client, a solemn duty. This person who is going to eat your food is trusting you – at the most basic level – that you do not intend to poison them. I use the greatest care and knowledge I have to ensure that never, ever happens. Perishable foods are stored carefully. Utensils and surfaces are immaculately clean. Hands are washed. After all that, the creative side comes in. Can we get the best, freshest ingredients we can, to make something – simple as it may be – to the best of our abilities, into something appealing and delicious? The very idea of deliberately wasting valuable food, and the time and energy involved to do it, to “burn it to a crisp” in order to disappoint a paying client is simply beyond me. It is a sick and disgusting suggestion. It in inhumane, wasteful, and downright abhorrent. People in this world right now are starving to death. Other people are scraping by with bad food and little of it. How dare you, even as a joke, suggest that ruining good food is a solution to anything.

  • Croquet_Player

    I think it’s very difficult for some people to imagine if the shoe was on the other foot. You go into your local bakery, which has a great reputation for lovely cakes. You want to order a wedding cake. The bakers learn you’re having your ceremony at a local church, and the reception in the adjacent church garden. “Oh, I see. So, you’re having a RELIGIOUS ceremony. What KIND of ceremony?” “Yes, we’re a devout Christian couple, our minister is going to marry us, just like he married my sister, my uncle…” “Oh, I SEE. WELL. I’m afraid we don’t serve…Christians, or whatever you call yourselves. There’s another bakery across town which serves your type. You should go there. Good day to you.” Can you imagine how that would feel? There’s a very good reason why this kind of garbage is illegal.

    • vicnicholls

      I’d be glad I wasn’t giving my money to someone who didn’t believe like me. I just found out a place that I went to was one of those ‘if you vote for X, you should be shot’. I didn’t vote for any of the choices they liked and didn’t like, but didn’t want to patronize a business like that. So I said hey, on this basis I want to return the products, please let others know of your beliefs so that those of us who don’t want any political part of the process, can patronize others. They gave me a refund but refused to tell others of who they want to serve and don’t want to serve. That right there says I’d rather move on and so would others.

  • Cady555

    The bakers make cakes for lots of different people. I’ve never heard of bakers refusing to make a cake for a glutton, even if the glutton hasn’t repented. Some bakers even make cakes for people who claim their dogs are getting married, which is weird.

    Doesn’t the bible clearly require kindness?

  • Reg-Thoris Sappie

    Behold the Lamb of God who TOOK away the Law Breaking and satan worshiping of the WHOLE WORLD..that includes the Butcher, the Baker and the Candlestick maker and YOU the Christian News reader..Jesus already saved everybody and God Loves everybody..and we are to Judge no Wine before its Time..cuz God Loves everybody whose “Breath” is in their Atoms from Adam Onward..ALL were Saved at the Cross..they just don’t know it…thats our Job to tell them “God Loves them” because of of what Jesus did for them (Y)

    Its 9 0’clock 10 9 2017 HalleluYah

    We were ALL “eternal rebels” till God sent Jesus to rescue us from ourselves ..we like this guy Doug Messner..worshipped ourselves..we ALL got to give them ALL ….the Good News that “God Loves Them and FORGAVE them from the Cross” with an Everlasting <3 for them as Individuals He Created in His Image. .. and they are ALREADY Saved..and THEY just don’t know it yet (Y)

    It's Gods desire that NONE should PERISH…and thank God NONE do..including Hitler and the worst Mass Murder who just shot up Sin City ..once the demon possession is removed they are like the new born baby they once were before the demons came in…read about the Demonic from Gadara,,,set FREE…whom the Son sets FREE is FREE indeed.. Free from Rebellion and Law Breaking (Y)

    If they stay IN Rebellion while alive..they will miss miss the Awesome relationship with a Loving God NOW..but when they stand face to Face with Jesus…they will weep and Mourn for the one whom they pierced with their Rebellion..and Jesus WILL forgive them (Y) …all demons/tares will have been removed from them as they enter Heaven as NO CORRUPTION can enter IN…Thank You Jesus …and thanks Mike Popovich & M. Larry Perrino   Teachers of Gods "Good News" <

    • Reg-Thoris Sappie

      And the Answer is Jesus…Dear Mr Christian Cake Baker…just bake the cake..with the message “God Loves you Both but not your actions” most likely they will refuse the Cake…Problem have a Right to “Free Speach” 🙁

  • From my understanding in this case, I though the Owner has also Declined to Make cakes for Explicit Writing, Halloween,satanic images, Adult images, and gays before he was sued?