Two Men Who Identify as Women Elected to Government Offices as Days Grow Darker

Two men who identify as women were elected by voters on Tuesday, one running for city council in Minnesota and another seeking to serve in Virginia’s House of Delegates.

Andrea Jenkins, whose birth name has not been cited in reports, was elected to the Minneapolis City Council with 73 percent of the vote. Jenkins began presenting as a female 26 years ago at age 30, and has been working as the senior policy aide for Councilmember Elizabeth Glidden for the past 12 years.

He also is active as a poet and a transgender activist, working with the Transgender Oral History Project (TOHP) at the University of Minnesota.

Jenkins announced his candidacy for the 8th Ward seat last year after Glidden decided not to run for reelection.

“I am prepared and ready to bring positive change toward a more equitable Minneapolis,” he said in a statement. “I look forward to working with the residents of the 8th Ward, and beyond, in creating the policies and programs necessary to bring sustainable improvement for everyone in our economy, housing, and services.”

On Tuesday night, Jenkins stated that with his win the days of transgender people being “marginalized” are over, as “[w]e don’t just want a seat at the table, we want to set the table.”

“Transgender people have been here forever, and black transgender people have been here forever,” he told the Washington Post. “I’m really proud to have achieved that status, and I look forward to more trans people joining me in elected office, and all other kinds of leadership roles in our society.”

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In Virginia, Democratic candidate Daniel “Danica” Roem was elected to the House of Delegates 54-45 over incumbent Republican Bob Marshall. Roem works as a journalist and is also a heavy metal rocker with the band Cab Ride Home, which describes itself as “drunken thrash metal” on its website.

“[O]ur songs are about drinking and our shows are about raging,” the band description reads.

“Just because I sing in a heavy metal band while spinning my head in circles and getting paid to do it, why can’t I run for government?” Roem told the outlet Noisey in June. “Why would I have to change who I am in order to run for government? I’ve already had to go through transformative change.”

Marshall, who served for 13 terms, stood against the affirmation of homosexuality and gender confusion in office, and refused to refer to Roem as a woman during the election.

As previously reported, Marshall had proposed a bill last year that would have required the use of restrooms and locker rooms at government-run facilities, including public schools, to align with one’s birth gender. However, in January, his “Physical Privacy Act” was dispensed with no voice vote and no debate, which Marshall called “disgusting.”

Marshall

Marshall also filed a bill this year to counteract an executive order signed by Gov. Terry McAuliffe that requires the Commonwealth to only enter into government contracts with businesses and organizations that have anti-discrimination policies in place protecting homosexual and transgenders. Some believed that the order effectively banned Christian entities and faith-based charities from working with the state since they would not enact such policies due to the need to hire in accordance with their mission statement and values.

“Make no mistake: Neither Governor McAuliffe nor the LGBTQ advocates who want to destroy the livelihood of photographers, caterers, bakers, florists, musicians and others who refuse to ‘celebrate’ same-sex ‘marriage’ will be satisfied with merely symbolic victories,” Marshall opined.

Peter LaBarbera, executive director of Americans for Truth About Homosexuality, expressed disappointment that voters chose Roem over Marshall, writing, “I’m devastated to learn of the loss in the Virginia delegate race of pro-family hero Bob Marshall to a man who is pretending to be a woman, ‘Danica’ Roem. Bob is one of the most principled and effective state legislators in the nation, and of course there was egregious media bias in covering the race.”

“[O]ut-of-state liberals sunk in tens of thousands of dollars to help the ‘transgender’ Roem because, well, liberals just can’t seem to celebrate gender confusion enough,” he said.

Isaiah 45:9 reads, “Woe unto him that striveth with His Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the Earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, ‘What makest thou?’ or thy work, ‘He hath no hands?’”

Romans 9:20 also states, “Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, ‘Why hast thou made me thus?’”


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  • Gender is not fluid. Gender is between your legs. Boys have a penis and girls have a vagina. The small percentage of people born with both a penis and a vagina are hermaphrodites. This is not my opinion. – The Truth Fairy

    • DrIndica

      Regardless if their genitals match how they “feel inside”, what policy positions do they represent? Are they only representing a very small and specialized constituency or do they match John Stuart Mill’s model and represent the greater good for all of society? The US is still a republic.

      • Maxwell Edison

        Seems to me the very idea a man believes himself to be female, a dog, an alien or a hole in the wall makes them unfit mentally to serve in a public office of any kind.

        But as we are apparently running with open arms into insanity instead of from it…..

        • DrIndica

          As in #45? Mentally unfit.

          • Maxwell Edison

            Get stuffed, troll.

      • Lark.62

        Ms. Roem was elected because she cared about transportation and local issues. She won because she is willing to represent all the people. Marshall only cared about fighting culture wars and hate. The people are tired of it and are moving on.

        • DrIndica

          It seems the appropriate person won that election then.

        • Etranger

          Exactly. It is refreshing to see voters actually thinking when they vote!

        • mr goody two shoes

          Who’s people Satan’s ?

      • mr goody two shoes

        The greater good for all society is to follow the Bible .I don’t think there headed that way .

        • DrIndica

          They’re ?

    • Silas Jennings

      Any reason you are completely ignoring the entire mental component?

      • MCrow

        Or that gender is socially constructed

        • Nathan Zalman

          Or that the genetic component of gender is very complex, and the physical component is not binary either, and that refusing to use the term “she” for someone who, for whatever reason, chooses to present as female, and that this refusal implies that you think that you speak from a higher plane that is as profoundly disrespectful as it is unscientific which entitles you to nullify the hopes and aspirations of complete strangers, and pass judgement on them?

          • Ron

            Nope. Science dictates that, if a person is clearly genetically and biologically male or female (exceptions are rare), then it doesn’t matter what their mind thinks. They simply are what genetics and biology dictate that they are. There’s your science. But if you prefer to enslave yourself to pseudo-science and psycho-babble, by all means, continue making a fool of yourself in public. Be my guest. It’s rather entertaining to watch. Just don’t expect me, or other clear-thinking, science-minded individuals to buy into your delusion.

          • Nathan Zalman

            Sorry, Ron. You’re talking nonsense. You are using a favorite rhetorical technique of those who think that they can win arguments with ridicule and by accusing your interlocutor of what you, yourself, are guilty — all without demonstrating the least knowledge of the subject. Also I see that you are one of the chief trolls here. Your parents must be very proud.

          • Ron

            Pffffft. My fart just made more sense than you did. Besides, it’s leftists such as yourself who use tactics from Rules for Radicals, such as accusing your opponent of that of which you are guilty. Think I don’t know about Saul Alinsky? You’re out-ranked and out-smarted.

            You are dismissed, anti-science troll.

        • Ron

          Gender is NOT socially constructed. There are genuine differences between males and females, physically, biologically, genetically, and mentally. One cannot “become” the other, no matter how hard they try. Because science.

          • MCrow

            You can argue sex is biological. Gender, however, is not. Societies have different expectations for gender.

          • Ron

            Unfortunately, you have been miseducated. Up until this recent gender insanity, “sex” and “gender” have been interchangeable terms. I refuse to accept re-definitions of words which have had the same meanings since their inception. Nor should you. Don’t buy into the lies and pseudo-science of the popular culture. Thinking something is true does not make it true. Sex = gender. Period. Everything else exists only in the mind, and therefore has no bearing on reality.

          • MCrow

            I have not. Oxford literally notes that gender typically refers to social concepts rather than biological ones. It’s ok, though. People on this website seem to ignore dictionaries

        • Amos Moses – He>i

          Hogwash ……..

          • MCrow

            Gender absolutely is a social construct. You can argue sex is not, but gender like “women should be silent and hold their place” absolutely is a social construct, not innate in biology.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            more bloviation and lie ………

          • MCrow

            Oxford dictionary. Look it up

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            yeah … i know what bloviation means ……..

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            sad appeal to “authority” ……

          • MCrow

            Ok, let’s cross reference. Oxford, Merrim Webster, Cambridge English dictionary…all agree. It’s not an appeal to authority, it’s just an appeal to what the word means.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            hmmmm …. and all those books ….. in agreement with a lie …… MAKES THEM ALL LIARS ….. as are you …. that is why you accept them …….. and i do not ………

          • MCrow

            I’m sorry you disagree with the reality of the English language. Words and definitions do shift over time, so maybe someday you will be right, but right now, you are not. Still, given how little you seem to care about any definitions outside of your own, I am not surprised. And given that you have set yourself upon the judgment seat, it’s not surprising to me that anyone who disagrees with your definition of truth must be a liar in your eyes. Pride goeth.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope ….. i agree with the LIES they are telling …. and i disagree with the LIES you believe …… and your appeal to that authority is REJECTED ….. it is in ERROR ………..

          • MCrow

            I disagree with you, Amos. But then, you think you’re god, so I’m not surprised you think your opinion is fact.

          • Silas Jennings

            So Oxford, Merriam-Webster and Cambridge are all lying? Is that what you’re saying? is that REALLY what you’re saying?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            they printed the lie ….. and you believe the lie ….. so what is the difference ……. as an unregenerate person …. you could do no less ……

          • Silas Jennings

            They aren’t lies, they are sources based entirely in facts. Anyone who calls out the dictionary is not interested in the truth.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            anyone who cannot distinguish a lie from truth in the dictionary is unregenerate ……..

          • Silas Jennings

            The dictionary is factual from cover to cover. You don’t get to choose your own definitions for things.

          • Silas Jennings

            You’re of course very correct but I wouldn’t use the word appeal at all…I would say consult since you’re using an authoritative source.

      • Ron

        Because the entire mental component has nothing to do with subjective truth. Truth is not something we make up in our minds. It exists out side of, and independently of, our thoughts.

        • Silas Jennings

          Are you a mental health professional or scientist qualified to make such a statement?

          • Ron

            No. I’m a person who understands the difference between truth and belief. Truth is objective, solid, unchanging. Truth remains true, regardless of what a person believes. If a “mental health professional” disagrees with this simple fact, then he or she has no business being in the mental health profession because he or she has become divorced from reality.

            What’s going on in someone’s mind has nothing to do with truth. The job of the mental health profession is to help people to cope with reality, not to try to change reality (a futile undertaking) to align with the patient’s delusions.

          • Silas Jennings

            Well, if you have no science or medical background, how are you qualified to give a scientific or medical diagnosis about something you have not studied? What is the “simple fact” people shouldn’t be in the medical field for believing – that truth is true? No one would argue with that, but you haven’t got truth. What you have is an opinion. Nothing more.

          • Eldrida Urika

            Most people who are not transgender or know a transgender very closely, do not have more than an opinion to offer ,whether it is a Christian or not. Christians can be more tolerant than others and you should not be demeaning someone for their opinion as you use your own opinion to voice what you believe is the truth too.
            Everyone has the right to not understand transgenderism without any knowledge to help that understanding. Many people have never met or at least recognized someone who is gay. It isn’t always made to be a visible choice, and many gays didn’t come out for years.
            I have never met a transgender person to my knowledge in my life. And I ain’t no spring chicken! Suddenly they appear and we’re all mind boggled to even consider what they are telling us they “feel” like, and that in itself makes it hard to understand: not knowing anyone.
            It is rare for me to go out of my area as it is not anywhere else I have to go. And my area is a very large amount of immigrants who would likely chase a transgender out of the area. I am also a Christian who prefers to ‘hang’ with others of the same belief, and transgenders don’t usually come in to a church, so I have no way of ever meeting someone who could help me understand. I can read, but it is better to talk face to face with someone who you can actually ask the uncomfortable questions to be able to fully understand. If anyone asks a number of questions to people of a cause, it is often viewed as a bid to oppose, when it is actually a request to know the answer, to help us understand better what we don’t.
            By not showing tolerance for the people who do not understand, as opposed to those who do not have the tolerance for others they should have as followers of Jesus. Tolerance helps to speak about your view and why you view it, not to take the person to task for not seeing it in the same light. How will anyone ever understand something that “feels” like we are in a science fiction world? Or if it “feels” bad, what is the difference between you “feeling” like you are another gender and how we “feel” about it because we have nothing to compare it to to help us understand it in any way.
            If Transgenders want to be treated properly they should remember to treat others properly too. It is our behavior as Christians that is to show our goodness. It is your behavior that will create a resistance or an acceptance to your issues. If you react angrily towards anyone who sounds like they don’t agree, they will think all transgenders are angry with no tolerance. If you try to find a way for others to understand this strange thing (to us) it will open up the world you live in much more clearly than just demanding we believe what you “feel”. Did I say that clearly enough? All people want justification when someone insists that they must believe in their “feelings” because we obviously do not understand those feelings. The onus is on you to show us what kind of people you are and if we can accept you because you haven’t been making demands, but trying to show that you can be a part of society without feeling the need to be strong influences in the community to the point of trying to put children into a confusion about their gender. The majority of children believe they are the gender they were born as and should not be pushed at an early age to consider what they are. It is just a matter of confusion for young children. The ones that are transgender will now know they can talk to someone about it, so they don’t need to be encouraged to consider if they are the wrong gender as they can let people know.Telling children that it exists is one thing. Trying to create a volatile situation to prove your point is leaning on the premise that if you can confuse them they will agree and be convinced they are the other gender because of the way it is told to them. Do not involve children in anything Except the knowledge that people are different and we must tolerate differences which is necessary in the first place, but we don’t go around teaching that the children might be thinking they are really Muslim instead of Hindu so they should consider it. Trying to become something they might not be is as bad for the child is who is questioning it for themselves. We don’t teach our children like that. We don’t make them believe that they are farmers when we teach them about pioneer days, we limit it to a day of pioneer times but we don’t try to make them feel like they are actually from a farm.
            When children are involved it creates a far bigger issue out of what you are telling us is the truth. Start with society in general and find a way to explain it that makes people actually understand and feel the compassion and empathy that you need them to feel to accept you.
            If you go for the children -so to speak – there will be walls built against you to protect them. No one is as formidable as parents when it comes to protecting their children from unknown possible dangers.
            Even the people who are forced to remove their children so they are not taught that these things are “normal” rather than different. I think you need to wait for the parents to accept this before you will get the children to anyways because it will happen just like racism did and it will be talked about by the people who cannot understand it, and oppose it, and their children will learn that it is ‘wrong’ and believe it because their parents believe it. You have to get the adults on your side to have the best influence on the children and the only thing that young children need to know is to show tolerance towards other people who are different than they are. Whether it is skin, religion, where they live, what they wear, if it is different, it needs to be taught to be tolerated as long as it does no harm. There is no great need for them to be taught more than that the transgenders exist and are to be tolerated just like gays are, and immigrants, and Christians and non Christians. Tolerance should be a two way street not just one.
            I really feel strongly that it is the way you are insisting we accept this new concept without giving us time to learn and accept it as much as we can. Christians will never agree with this, but we can tolerate that others do agree with it. You should be helping everyone understand and not reacting to the lack of knowledge which can stop the discrimination when it is understood.
            I hope I can make a difference as one of the many Christians who are tolerant but do not want to be involved in the “sinners” life just like we don’t want to have someone we don’t like around us as people, not just as a Christian.
            I’m sorry. I’ll stop now, i just realized this is too long. Please accept my apologies but I try to squeeze it all into one post sometimes and it ends up like this one. I guess it is good that I am not someone who just reflects my own views and not a more open minded look at the issues.
            Blessings!

          • Silas Jennings

            I am not demeaning anyone based on their faith. I am, however, demeaning them if their religion causes them to be willfully anti-science.

          • Eldrida Urika

            So do you follow the top scientists of the country and believe what they decide is right about what happened to create the world? And evolution where the blob in the swamp came out and grew to be a small ape then grew bigger and bigger and finally became a man. But only some because some apes stayed the same right. Then the apes/people started to make whoopee and look at the world of people today. Apes on the other hand didn’t breed anything like the humans do in numbers of course.
            Is that what you believe in? What the top scientists tell you?

          • Silas Jennings

            That is a faulty understanding of evolution. We had a common ancestor. You are sounding like the people who say “if we came from apes, why are there still apes” and trust me, you do not want to be in that group, because they are the most ridiculed of all.

            To answer your question, yes, we have the fossil record and we have things like radiometric and carbon dating methods which are far more reliable methods of determining the age of the earth than counting the genealogies in Genesis.

          • Eldrida Urika

            I apologize I was being facetious, and I am sorry for that. I should not mock another’s beliefs. I guess I was in a weird mood when I wrote it, I usually delete that kind of post.

            I’d appreciate it if you would look at something

            As I know they will remove an actual place, I am changing it so you can work it out.

            It is a report about some scientific findings that I thought you might like to see. I checked out the people mentioned and many of them are Nobel Prize winners, and includes quotes by Stephen Hawking too. I think it is a fascinating report regardless of what the scientists found, but it’s even greater because of the discovery.

            That popular site with digital film. dotcom slash watch questionmark
            v equal sign Er9D00DXQQs

            Since you rely on Science, I thought you would want to see this.

          • Eldrida Urika

            To be honest for the evolutionist that say we come from apes is one of the biggest problems with the theory to anyone who looks at it, is if we developed from apes, why do apes still exist but do not evolve into humans as our ‘predecessors’ did. That is totally unlikely to have happened if we came from the apes ourselves. Even if all of them didn’t turn into humans, I would think that the odd one would still evolve into a human just by the same coincidence. The odds are more for it than against that happening in that belief.
            Otherwise, it makes no sense and supports our belief that God made male and female just like His Word in the bible states. That’s how I’ve thought since I was little and heard that man came from apes. I wasn’t Christian to have another belief to compare it to either. It makes no logical sense, nor is it reasonable to accept for some of us.
            So just why don’t the apes become human not even the 1 in a trillion that would be expected to go beyond the others and become a human too. Your proof are skeletons and human skulls and if God made us similar, it doesn’t mean one came the other, it means they have similar skeletons/skulls to ours. Pigs have similar enough hearts to use in transplants, does that mean we also come from pigs? Why does one animals similarities get to be accepted as the reason but another’s isn’t – and that is not just the pig that has attributes that humans have too.
            We all breathe the same way. we all eat and digest the same way. Our vision is similar to our pets, and can need corrective lens too. So with all the different similarities, why does just one qualify to be our predecessor? Wouldn’t it be more reasonable to believe that we are a combination of all the animals than that only one qualifies as our origin.
            I’m sorry if this is not what you expected but I’ve had a long time to think about this without the Christian perspective too. These are the questions I need answered before I could even come close to evolution being something that actually answered the question of where humans came from when I believe in God and believe that he does not lie. He is too beyond us than to need to lie. He can do anything why would he even bother to lie? We can’t even come close to imagining what he is capable of knowing or doing. It’s beyond our abilities to think like God, so we can’t be confident in anything but the Word in the Bible, because if you believe in God, you are aware of his power without needing to question the things he does because of being God.
            That’s why we cannot imagine that we come from apes.

          • Nick Halflinger

            “Pigs have similar enough hearts to use in transplants, does that mean we also come from pigs?”

            Yes

          • Eldrida Urika

            To me it was how God wanted it, so it was.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            You’re demonstrating several classic misconceptions about evolution right there. For one thing, we didn’t “come from apes”, we STILL ARE apes. Great apes, aka hominids. We have a common ancestor with the other hominids, which have a common ancestor with other primates, and so on. Back to the first forms of life. So, no, we didn’t evolve from any species that is still existing.

          • ppp777

            You truth you have nothing , your dating methods are totally unreliable , they are circular reasoning and inconsistent , we have a clear record in the bible about the age of the earth which relates to reality , and the apes are here as they have always been , as humans have always been and nothing has changed or will ever , apart from in your head .

          • Silas Jennings

            No, counting genealogies in the Old Testament is not how you discern the age of the earth.

          • ppp777

            It is the only logical way it is recorded history , nothing [ and I mean nothing ] goes back further then that , the rest is in your head and is not based on reality .

          • Silas Jennings

            And you’ve already been told that “because my ancient holy book says so” is not proof. I will go with the people who can actually accurately measure such things, thanks.

          • Eldrida Urika

            Why do we have to agree with you? It is your opinion and we don’t agree. it isn’t anything about a willfullness to be anti-science, it’s called faith in God and His Word. It isn’t OUR opinion that you are disagreeing with necessarily, it is our faith that God would not tell us in His Word that something is one thing when it is actually another. God does not lie, and we have faith in him. By demeaning our faith in God, it is based in our faith.
            Surely you accept that people are all allowed their own opinion, regardless of the reason, don’t you? It’s not blind trust because we already trust that he is real and that he will fulfill all the promises he made in the bible for us.
            You don’t trust that God would not say one thing and mean another. If he wanted us to accept the people’s ideas about creation he would not have written it in the bible.
            The other thing I found when I was doing a quick research was that less than half of one percent of Americans are estimated to be transgender.
            They can’t find any definite proof that there is a biological (gene) that produces the transgender and have not been able to do more than brain scans that show similarities but nothing really conclusive.
            It’s ridiculous that they insist they be accepted as “normal” when we didn’t even know they existed until within the last decade, and there are so few that it is possible we will never meet one in our lives, but we have to go against our personal beliefs and think they are normal. No it’s unreasonable to expect everyone to accept their word for it and just believe what they say is true. People want proof of God, and we who believe in God know he does not make mistakes in our biological make up so anything that is different to what God said it is, it caused by an outside entity, and is not of God. Besides we don’t even know what kind of people they are. It’s all well and good to tell us they are ‘fine’ but people like to see if that is true and often will not adjust their view without that knowledge. The gays took 3 decades to show their supporters that they are good people and do not harm others before there was enough support to put through their stand on equal rights. These people are not going to just ride in on the gays victory because the majority of people do not know what they are like or what to expect like they do gays. If someone wants people to accept transgenders they will have to have the public get used to them first. No one should be forced to accept something that is not proven to be true, and by forcing us, if there is Ever a problem with anyone who says they are transgender but aren’t really, People will get the impression that transgender is not such a great idea after all. There are already articles of them in the public washrooms being rude with kids around. and I’m trying to be discreet about it. How can we just accept anything that is so foreign to us? So totally unknown that it is still rocking people’s minds with the idea.
            Seriously, 2 people in one body? That to me is a case of schizophrenia. At least the ones that think they are just in the wrong body is still about one person/one body. The other sounds kind of strange and unimaginable.
            The thing is that as a Christian I believe is that we are not supposed to hassle others about their beliefs other than telling the story of salvation. so whether we believe that it is true or real doesn’t matter when it comes to how they are treated. Jesus would not approve of doing intentional harm to another person, especially not for their sin. So really there is no reason to insist we believe their plight, because it is not our job to punish people for their sin unless it is a law in the land. We have to leave judgement and punishment to our Lord as he will know if they deserve it better than we can. He can see their hearts. Transgender people will just have to accept that we believe it is a sin, just like the gays have to accept it too. Same with anyone who sins and does not repent but knows the consequences according to God’s Word, they will be judged and punished if God determines they had bad motivations behind their actions.
            Christians do not have authority to do anything more than tell them about Salvation, other than that, we are to be good caring and compassionate people who stand out because our behavior.
            You want proof of things that we don’t. So your inference that we are not able to believe what science is trying to prove is because of our faith, not because we are too stubborn to believe. After all we are not too stubborn to believe in a God that we only have our personal experiences to feel that God is in our lives, and that makes him real.
            Opinion is just one person who might have a different view than another person. It doesn’t mean one has to prove the other side is wrong, it just means we disagree on that opinion.

          • Silas Jennings

            That’s the whole point, it ISN’T my opinion. I wouldn’t be sticking so strongly to it if it was. It is established, settled science that nobody argues EXCEPT people with religions that refuse to accept it.

          • Eldrida Urika

            you are trying to tell me that science has proven transgender is real. Sorry I just googled it to see whether it was explained and every attempt at explaining were theories not confirmed documentation. It’s not proven. Give me a link to a reputable site that shows the documentation and studies that show that Transgender is a real “feeling”.
            Nope sorry, I looked it up so I would understand what it is about and the “experts” can ‘t find any proof of it at all and only have theories about them.

          • Silas Jennings

            You could start here, it’s as good a place as any, with the American Psychological Association’s definitions page:

            204.14.132.173/pi/lgbt/resources/sexuality-definitions(dot)pdf

          • Eldrida Urika

            One thing I’ve never understood is that I love many people (really I try to love all) but the ones I know that I love, I realize that no matter how strong that love is, it is still for a friend or what ever the connection may be. I don’t understand why these people can not seem to understand this fact of life. We can love others without wanting to get into bed with them, right? So why do they let the attraction go beyond being attracted to the person, not the gender of the person? Attraction does not mean it has to be a sexual reason and if it is thought about there are times that once the people are more settled in a friendship relationship the strong attraction is about that, not the other.
            Are Transgender people the kind to not be able to feel attractive to other people, so they look to someone who will give them the comfort they can’t find in other relationships, rather than because of a physical attraction that leads to sex?
            To me that is just life that you are close to someone and it is a strong attraction or emotion than for others but it doesn’t have to develop any further if you know it isn’t about that if it settles into a friendship without the sex.
            I have had many male friends that started off either trying to be more, or were more at one time and ended up as my close friends. That’s why I can’t understand it. I have to resist it so to speak as a Heterosexual too. So it’s not something I can understand easily in others, because I have nothing to relate it to. I have downloaded the PDF but don’t have time to read it before church.

          • ppp777

            Those are statements not evidence , your easy fooled

          • Silas Jennings

            Incorrect. It is evidence. You just elect to disbelieve it.

          • mcgyver99

            Um…science has been proving the Bible correct for decades as well as archeologists. To say a believer rejects science really is absurd…

          • Silas Jennings

            “Science has been proving the Bible correct for decades”

            Source please? We know Noah’s flood was impossible, that snakes cannot talk and let’s not get started about Jonah…

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            back at cha ….. Source please? …….

          • Silas Jennings

            You shouldn’t need one unless you possess the answer about how those two penguins walked all the way from Antarctica, but this is a good starting place:

            https://rationalwiki(dot)org/wiki/Global_flood

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            penguins can SWIM …. next …….. and FYI ….. there were more than 2 ……

          • Silas Jennings

            I see. And the kangaroos hopped?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            kangaroos can also swim …… need the video? …… and you are making assumptions NOT based in science and on YOUR desire to believe what you want to believe ………. FAIL …………

          • Silas Jennings

            The video of two kangaroos taking a little transcontinental swim? Yes please. And penguins too if you don’t mind.

            Do take your time. I think you’re going to be a while.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            AGAIN …. you are making ASSUMPTIONS not based on any facts …. just what you want to believe …. you have no evidence it was a “transcontinental swim” ….. and penguins spend MONTHS at sea except for when they lay eggs and hatch ….. so “long swims” …. EASY …..

          • Silas Jennings

            WHAT?
            Where did the Ark supposedly launch from?
            What CONTINENT do penguins and kangaroos live on? (Hint: Separate continents for this question)
            YOU are the one saying it was a transcontinental swim! I’M saying that’s impossible and ridiculous!

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            your assumption is that the continents are where they are NOW ….. and you have not shown that … NOR have you shown that swimming would be the only route there ………. FAIL ……….

          • Silas Jennings

            You fail at life, sir. That is positively the stupidest thing I’ve ever read from another human being. This discussion cannot continue because I am unable to take you seriously.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you cannot prove your assertions ….. tail between legs …… scalded dog running away ….. maybe you should investigate CONTINENTAL DRIFT ………….

          • Silas Jennings

            Yeah, you really told me a thing or two, you intellectual marvel. Bye now.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            good ….. you are leaving …… see ya …. would not want to be ya ……..

          • Silas Jennings

            Of course you wouldn’t, I inhabit a place where I do all my own thinking and don’t let an ancient book do it for me.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            it would seem you have not thought about it at all and are relying on “rationalwiki” to think for you …… so i do not believe you …………

          • Silas Jennings

            You asked for a source showing the Ark couldn’t have happened. I gave you the best one that I could find. Suck it up.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Antarctica Was Once Covered in Forests. We Just Found One That Fossilized.
            The ancient trees were able to withstand alternating months of pure sunlight and darkness, before falling in history’s greatest mass extinction.

            hmmm …. science seems to DISAGREE with your fallacious assertions ………

          • Silas Jennings

            Oh, actually, NO IT DOESN’T. At all. You should try presenting some.
            Make an effort, you know? Rather than just trying to dig up science-y sounding things from the internet that you think support your argument when they really don’t.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            DAILY NEWS 12 June 2014
            Massive ‘ocean’ discovered towards Earth’s core

            bible gets it right again ……. the “Fountains of the Great Deep” ……..
            Genesis 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

            “(Hint: Separate continents for this question)”

            so pangia is what then ………… science got it wrong according to you ….. interesting ……. SCRIPTURE got it right ………….

            Continents were once one large land mass ….. today that is the idea of “pan-gia” ……. and it is in Genesis ………
            1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
            1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

            and continental drift …….

            7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

          • Silas Jennings

            And do you know how many MILLIONS of years ago Pangea was?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope ….. actually no evidence for that ….. time does not fix everything you want to believe ….. it actually destroys it ……….

          • Silas Jennings

            I see you’re as good at math as you are at deductive reasoning.

            Wikipedia indicates that Pangea assembled from earlier continental units approximately 335 million years ago, and it began to break apart about 175 million years ago.

            Noah’s apparent flood was between 6 and 10 thousand years ago, if the young earth creationists like yourself are to be believed.

            Do you have any idea how huge the discrepancy between 6 thousand and 335 million is?

            Tell me again how this destroys what I believe.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Are you ……………

          • Silas Jennings

            I know how to listen to the people with the right credentials.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            oh … i see …. so you somehow know they are right because ….. they have the “right” piece of paper …………. IYNSHO ………….. so you really have no idea …… you have no PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE WHATSOEVER …..you just accept as BLIND FAITH …… the EXACT same charge you are trying to lay on others ……. i see …… tell me again just how “smart” you are to do that …………

          • Eldrida Urika

            You have no knowledge about law but you often insist that the law you cite is right.
            Our faith is to believe without seeing, and that can be described as blind faith, so I would not used that description if you don’t want to point that out.
            We walk by faith, and not by sight. < no sight used = blind.
            It is our faith that makes us believe and remain as believers of Jesus. It isn't what we see as much as it is what we read in the bible and what we hear in our churches and bible studies.
            Jesus pointed out that some teachers of Christianity will be changing his word and that we need to constantly be searching the scriptures to confirm everything purported to be from The Word actually IS from the Word and that it is the correct meaning of that scripture. Like the scribes and the Pharisee were teaching one way and behaving another (hypocritical) but they were teaching the laws incorrectly too. Just as the money lenders were wrong to make God's House into anything else, let alone something evil, is considered to bring the wrath of God on those who do use churches for evil doings. It is a house to be with God not a place to be with the devil.
            What God wants from us is to have blind faith in him and he will open your eyes to let you see what you have had the faith about. That is why you must believe before you will be saved. That's why Jesus told us that people are going to wax cold and lose their faith in Jesus. If our faith is not strong enough, we will not be able to get through the tribulations.
            Because we have blind faith to bring us to believing in Jesus, our faith should be strong enough to withhold against the corruption of man.
            The people who can never see Jesus' hand in their lives are not going to have enough faith in him to help them through life. Jesus shows himself to people who believe in their heart that they can trust and have faith in him and the promises he made.
            When someone asks a Christian why they believe and they shrug and say because the bible says it's true, they do not have the belief that will get them through. Our faith is based on more than our feelings that come from understanding the bible. It comes because of the things we see in our lives or experience in our lives that we can believe God had a hand in providing it for us. That is why so many non-believers say we have blind faith – they can't see God in anything so they think we believe without having proof.
            So Blind Faith is an actual way of saying that we had faith before we had proof.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “It is our faith that makes us believe and remain as believers of Jesus”

            explain to us the ORIGIN of that faith ……. from where does that faith come from ….. does it come from within us or outside of us ……. you write a lot …… but it seems you do not have a good grasp on what you are writing about ….. so lets start right there …………

            explain to us the ORIGIN of that faith ……. from where does that faith come from …..

          • Eldrida Urika

            It comes from the belief that he is real and able. I believe I said that in my post. Faith is always from the inside but you are confusing the issue. My post was about believing without seeing not about where faith comes from.
            People ‘get’ faith from a number of sources, about any number of things and it does not have to be about our Lord Jesus. It can be faith that the pilot knows how to fly, it’s the faith that someone specific is going to come through with a desperate need. Faith is not just about religion Amos.
            And since I explained it in my post, I expect you just didn’t read – past the first “mistake” in your opinion. I think you just like to oppose anyone who does not agree with you. Read my post.
            I’m not going to explain it again when I have. Oh and I know where you are trying to direct the conversation, but I was do not believe as you do that God “makes” us choose to follow him like you do Amos.
            Our faith is by our choice to have. God is not trying to control us Amos. He’s trying to be our God so he can do things for us to give us a better life. Sin is to be avoided so we can all get along.
            God didn’t predestine people to be saved or not saved, he predestined them to do something and that is all. No one is getting a free entrance to Eternity – which is shown when Jesus told us the story about the ones who thought they were saved because they did this and this, but he pointed out that they didn’t do this or that, and so they will not be going to heaven. That story specifically points out that we have to behave in a specific way and do our best to obey the instructions that Jesus gave to us in the NT. He was very clear that he expects us to obey every command he had given, and some of those commands were about how we were to behave.
            But I know you don’t believe that, so this is for those of you who have a different view than Amos does, I guess!

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ” Faith is always from the inside but you are confusing the issue.”

            nope …. faith is not manufactured in the body, mind or spirit of the person ….. and it is not confusing the matter ….. it is the CRUX of the matter ….. as to whether you are proceeding from a biblical basis ….. and you are not ……….

          • Eldrida Urika

            Yes I am because it states that everyone has a chance to be saved and those who believe in Jesus will be saved. He doesn’t “make” us believe, its of our own choice whether to believe or not. God doesn’t Make us do anything, he wants to help in our lives not be a control freak. He wants us to choose to follow him. He wants us to choose to try stop sinning. He obviously does not make us, as we still sin.

            You are the one that does not go by the gospel Amos, I do. Your suggestion that God Makes us believe is just not true according to the scriptures. I’m quite willing to prove my side, are you willing to try to prove yours?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “Yes I am because it states that everyone has a chance to be saved”

            the Elect will be saved ….. Christ did not die for sinners in rebellion …… God chooses who will and who will not be saved ……. He died for the many ….. but He did not die for all ……

            ” its of our own choice whether””He obviously does not make us, as we still sin.”

            nope …. it is God and Christs choice and has nothing to do with us ……… God is in control of everything in His creation INCLUDING sin ……. your “choice” does not outweigh Gods decree ……. you are outside orthodoxy …………

          • Eldrida Urika

            Actually Christ did die for everyone as shown in John 3:16 so right there you are wrong.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope ….. does not say that …….. ” that whosoever believeth in him” means …. NOT EVERYONE WILL and in JOHN 17 …. “I pray NOT FOR THE WORLD, BUT FOR THEM WHICH THOU HAST GIVEN ME; for they are thine.”

            17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
            17:6 I HAVE MANIFESTED THY NAME UNTO THE MEN WHICH THOU GAVEST ME out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
            17:7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
            17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
            17:9 I pray for them: I pray NOT FOR THE WORLD, BUT FOR THEM WHICH THOU HAST GIVEN ME; for they are thine.
            17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
            17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
            17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “Lord, I was born with a glorious free-will; I was born with power by which I can turn to you of myself. I have improved my grace. If everybody had done the same with their grace that I have–then they might all have been saved. Lord, I know You do not make us willing, if we are not willing ourselves. You give grace to everybody; some do not improve it, but I do. There are many who will go to Hell as much bought with the blood of Christ as I was; they had as much of the Holy Spirit given to them; they had as good a chance, and were as much blessed as I am. It was not Your grace that made us to differ; I know it did a great deal–still I turned the point! I made use of what was given to me, and others did not–that is the difference between me and them.”

            idolatry ……………

            Luke
            18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
            18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
            18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
            18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
            18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

            WHICH ONE ARE YOU …………..

          • Eldrida Urika

            I myself am a publican who knows that he is a sinner and asks forgiveness for those sins.
            A HUMBLE person who does not act higher than her place that has been told to us by Jesus is to be below the people who need our help and not arrogant about our faith.

            You on the other hand seem to think you are at the level of a pharisee, and think you know it all and unfortunately you don’t. Sorry. You have got to read the Gospel or you will not see all the important scriptures that you don’t seem to know about when I talk about them. It’s not my fault that you will not read the gospel for understanding Amos. It’s only your own. Jesus told us to check the scriptures OURSELVES to see if what ANYONE says about God’s Word is true. Even TEACHERS of the bible should have each of the students verify what they are taught. It’s in the scriptures of the Gospel Amos, check it out!

            I feel bad for you Amos. You are one of the ones that will be turned away at the gate because you are not following Jesus commands about how we are to behave as Christians, and he even told us that we can tell each other by the Fruits of the Spirit and you don’t show very many of those fruits here on this board. That’s Galatians 5:22-23.

            Amos you do not shine a light that will bring others to Jesus plain and simple and it is stated in the scriptures that he wants us to be that light, specifically. By showing our goodness to others.

            I haven’t ever seen a sign of your goodness, your love, your joy, your peace, that you know how to longsuffer, nope not your gentleness, meekness, or temperance. The only Fruit that you show to others here is your faith. And it’s based on an error in the first place.
            I do feel bad for you thinking you will be saved without those fruits apparent in your life. Lordy Lordy is what you need to read and recognize that you need to change your attitude and begin to actually follow what Jesus told us in the Gospel. All of Jesus’ commands are to be followed, and no one is excepted from those commandments, not even the “Elect”. So if you think you are saved without following ALL of Jesus’ commandments, you will be sorry. I wish you would’ve believed my cousin but I am telling you the same thing. Change how you believe or you will not have salvation and there is scripture that states that we can lose our salvation. So listen and read the gospel and open your eyes to what Jesus told us to be like and to do.

            22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

            23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope …. you are the pharisee ……. rest ignored ….. bye Sharon at Home ……

          • Eldrida Urika

            You are not listening at all, are you? That’s the name my cousin used here, and I am a different person from a totally different nation.
            No I am not a pharisee, because every thing I say can be proven in the scriptures and I stick to the scriptures very closely because I follow Jesus and that’s what Jesus told us to do. I teach exactly what Jesus teaches in the bible – and I have no power to change those things, as they are God’s Word, and The Truth.
            You on the other hand tell us that those of the “elect” which is a word that describes the members of ANY church, that the elect have nothing to do to be saved other than worship and praise Jesus and repent for sins and well, according to the scriptures that is not the Truth. He very clearly tells us that we should behave as a reflection of Jesus himself and gave us all the tools to know what that way of behaving was and how to follow it.
            I’m sorry if you do not know the Gospel scripture Amos, but don’t go labeling me as a teacher of invalid lessons about the bible, because I will gladly start using the scriptures for you since you can’t seem to locate them for yourself in the NT.
            One of the biggest things that we must do is show the Fruit of the Spirit, for it is by our Fruits we are known as Christians. I believe I have just given these to you in a post but I’ll give the scriptures for you here so you check the context of them too.
            Galatians 5 particularly verses 22 + 23. That’s just one of the ways that Jesus told us to be like. I guess I will have to start giving you a different verse with a lesson in it so you can read them for yourself and check the context.
            I think you should not be rude to me just because you had a problem with my cousin. She asked me to come here and post because she was banned. So give your head a shake and stop believing the stupid idea that I am my cousin. We are much the same and we do talk a lot but we come from different areas and I tend to have different concerns than she does about the US while she has concerns more to do with Canada. That alone makes us very different people except that we believe the same things. We spent a lot of time together when we were young and we went to church together when we were older. There are many people who have the same beliefs I do, so I didn’t even have to mention that Sharon is my cousin, did I? Honesty is always the best policy, but some people tend to make one’s honesty into a problem instead of it being a good thing.
            Amos, if you read this far, good for you!

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “You are not listening at all, are you?”

            i do not listen to ARMINIANISM as it is ERROR and a MAN CENTERED GOSPEL ……… it is REJECTED …. IGNORED …………

          • Eldrida Urika

            So scripture is not what you base your Faith on?
            People who teach the bible corrupted, do not have the scriptures that I do that prove what the Lord says in the scriptures, or direct people to love everyone – you can’t see what is in front of your eyes Amos. I am a person of God and only God. You can’t imagine I could be right because you don’t want me to shake your faith in your belief. That’s fine, but what if I’m right and you are wrong? All I ask is that you read the scriptures for yourself so you can make the decision with God’s help. Surely he helps someone as faithful as you are to understand the scriptures while you read them, even if it has two meanings within it? So ask God and check it out for yourself. It is your choice. Maybe it is even God’s choice. We won’t find out until Judgement day will we. If you want me to pick the scriptures I cite, so we can talk about them – the more power to you!

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Then Hell must be the monument to God and Christs failure to save everybody …. is that correct? ….. is this what you REALLY believe …… are you so bold in your embrace of YOUR FREE WILL that you will BOLDLY proclaim Gods failure to save ……… REALLY …. God and Christ are failures ………….

          • Eldrida Urika

            You still don’t know how to read do you? see that word? Chance to be saved. It is not definite that anyone will be saved, Amos. I would never state anything that shows God as a failure or a liar. What you are doing is ignoring the Gospel in a few places actually.
            2 Peter 3
            9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance.
            or how about one of the most famous scriptures that Christians love!!
            John 3:13 – 16.
            13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
            14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
            15 That WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
            16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
            17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that THE WORLD through him MIGHT BE SAVED.

            Why don’t you just admit you do not know the scriptures? How can you possibly not know about John 3:16 – that is why Christ died not for select people only. You have got to be smarter than that Amos. Christ didn’t go through what he did for one group of people he went for all people. He stated that HIMSELF. Learn the scriptures in the gospel Amos, you show no sign of knowing any of them.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            MAMA BARELY …. erm ….. BEAMER …… erm ….. SHARON AT HOME ………. so you snuck back in …. and you are trying to snuck attack people ….. oh you old sly dog you ……….

          • Eldrida Urika

            You really need to find a way to allow yourself to know when you are wrong.
            Amos, I am not my cousin and in some ways, I could take offense at being compared to my cousin. For one thing I am much calmer than she is. Another thing, I’m the better looking one and am actually more versed in knowing the scriptures. We just think along the same lines because we spent the time discussing those things. Don’t you have people who are similar in a lot of ways to you, like a cousin or a sibling? I know a few and know Of a lot more. People who are in the same environment when it is a part of their lives that will remain in their lives, help them both have the same attitudes and views. We were like sisters when we were young and spent our time together constantly until I had to go back home in the States. We’re like two peas in a pod according to some and like 2 of the musketeers (the third moved away too). So get your head wrapped around the fact that I am not my cousin. She’s a Canadian, I am an American. She is 5 years older than I am. She has a father in the ministry and an Uncle too. I have only extended family in the ministry.
            She went to grade 12 and I have some college degrees. We aren’t the same people.
            So stop avoiding the points I am making by directing us towards that silly thing and lets discuss our beliefs and the scriptures that make us believe the way we do, since it is obviously a distinct set of scriptures you feel say that you are among the ONLY people to be saved, while it is also a distinct set of scriptures that I can provide that prove that Jesus told us to BE a certain kind of person as part of getting ready for Heaven. He doesn’t want people who are angry, or unreasonable in heaven, that causes conflict and there will be none of that in heaven. So if we don’t try to rid ourselves of our anger it can go against our chance of Salvation. If we do not love everyone and show that love in the way you care and have compassion for others in need, you will not be accepted into heaven. I’m sure you know the scriptures about it, when they call Lord Lord and Jesus dismisses them as not worthy of heaven due to their behavior. It is so clear that that is why those men were told to leave. Do you believe that you do not have to do those things either. You do know those 2 incidents that Jesus mentioned – the walking naked in the streets and the hunger were not literally what they did not do, they are metaphors for the behavior of helping others and being loving to them when you care for them. You can’t not do the things the Lord Jesus commanded us to follow. I’ll put it this way, If you do not follow his commands, you do not love him. (scripture available) If you think you are an Elect and have to do nothing to obtain Salvation then you will be the Elect that is turned away at the gate, Amos. I’m not trying to be cruel or nasty I am telling you the truth according to scriptures. Please if you have read this far, can you please consider what I am saying and ask for scripture if you want to. My cousin was seriously concerned about you because she wanted to help you with your salvation the way sisters and brothers of faith are supposed to (scripture available) and show you to the narrow path, but you resisted it. I will not be frustrated like she was, but I do wish you would remember that Jesus told us to confirm others convictions about scriptures to test and see if they match the scriptures to be sure to know them well and be able to use them as tools in our lives. We have to be able to support our beliefs with scriptures to anyone who challenges us. (scriptures available)
            If you are still firm in your belief when we have both tried to show you differently then it is your choice not to accept someone who is also a person of very strong faith in our Lord Jesus is saying then that is what your free will is allowing you to do. You will have no choice but to accept the responsibility of that choice when it comes to Judgement Day. So I leave you with that to think about.
            I don’t understand why my cousin was so frustrated with you. You are obviously a typically stubborn male and those resist anything that says they need to change in any way. Growing up with men has taught me a lot about some of the random things that many men do that is like another man’s choices too. LOL
            I won’t be frustrated because I will only be offering you scriptures if you are interested in any discussion at all. If you can’t accept scriptures that you can confirm for yourself to verify the context of those scriptures, then it is that God has made you blind to those scriptures and you should pray for greater wisdom and understanding of them before you read them. He has always come through for me when I pray like that. It is true with any scripture when you pray to Him.
            So, once you admit I am not my cousin’s keeper, let me know if you want to discuss rather than accuse, please? That’s one way my cousin and I are alike, we both love to discuss things especially scriptures. Any time is a good time to exchange views.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “cousin” …. is that what it is now ….. is that the new term for sock puppet …… “We just think along the same lines” …….. so you are “both” ARMINIANS …. you preach ARMINIANISM …… a MAN CENTERED GOSPEL …… an UNBIBLICAL GOSPEL ……. and you expect that you and your COUSIN are going to be taken seriously by me ……….

            REJECTED …….

          • Eldrida Urika

            Fine then, don’t reply to my posts. It’s that simple See you in the funny papers Amos!
            By the way, can anyone help me know what a sock puppet is? I think of sock puppets and the things we used to make out of the odd socks from the dryer to entertain little kids.

            I know what he is refering to, but I don’t know what Arminianism is, so I don’t think I am preaching it. Man Centered Gospel – maybe I’m not totally sure of what that means considering I follow Jesus not man, and Jesus is the center of my world. I have mentioned that a few times.
            Unbiblical Gospel.. first of all how would you know if it is right or not? You don’t know the Gospel and you don’t live with it in your life. The fact of the matter is that every single bitty thing I have ever posted is in the scriptures and is very clear about what it says. Which leads me to conclude that you are not doing the commands of Jesus.
            I am becoming a reflection of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, which you don’t even understand or accept, because it is said in the Gospel. You would know what I am talking about if you really did know the gospel and Jesus’ commands, but you don’t.
            So no you can’t ruin my reputation on this site and if you keep calling me those things I will complain about them as they are against the rules.

            If anyone can help me with sock puppet and what Arminianism has to do with the bible and myself. I can’t disagree without knowing that. lol!

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ” I think of sock puppets and the things we used to make out of the odd socks from the dryer to entertain little kids.”

            A sockpuppet is an online identity used for purposes of deception. The term, a reference to the manipulation of a simple hand puppet made from a sock, originally referred to a false identity assumed by a member of an Internet community who spoke to, or about, themselves while pretending to be another person

          • Eldrida Urika

            spoke to themselves? hahahaha what a riot that people would do that!!!
            well, I am only me, myself and I. No sock puppets here. I could never do that because of the way I believe that Jesus would not approve of deception like that. Those in Christ should never be ashamed of who we are.
            That IS what you were calling ME, right? A sock puppet?
            yeah, that’s funny too under the circumstance that you must know that I am an extremely honest person. The Lord told us to confess our sins to each other, but in this case I have no sin to confess about that is online. I do not sin when I am only period. Lying on the internet is the dumbest thing that people do. It almost always back fires at some point and you have to pick up the pieces and start again. No puppets here. Praise the Lord!

          • Eldrida Urika

            I apologize, I forgot to tell you that I honestly appreciate that it was you who helped me to understand those terms I was not familiar with.
            I like to learn new things especially new ways of understanding God’s Word, because it always opens my eyes to more in the bible that is to help me with my own life.
            And I do appreciate your help and explanation. Thank you

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “I know what he is refering to, but I don’t know what Arminianism is”

            Arminianism is based on theological ideas of the Dutch Reformed theologian Jacobus Arminius (1560–1609) and his historic supporters known as Remonstrants. His teachings held to the five solae of the Reformation, but they were distinct from particular teachings of Martin Luther, Huldrych Zwingli, John Calvin, and other Protestant Reformers. Jacobus Arminius (Jakob Harmenszoon) was a student of Theodore Beza (Calvin’s successor) at the Theological University of Geneva. Arminianism is known to some as a soteriological diversification of Protestant Calvinist Christianity.[1] However, to others, Arminianism is a reclamation of early Church theological consensus.[2]

            Dutch Arminianism was originally articulated in the Remonstrance (1610), a theological statement signed by 45 ministers and submitted to the States General of the Netherlands. The Synod of Dort (1618–19) was called by the States General to consider the Five Articles of Remonstrance. These articles asserted that

            Salvation (and condemnation on the day of judgment) was conditioned by the graciously-enabled faith (or unbelief) of man;

            The Atonement is qualitatively adequate for all men, “yet that no one actually enjoys [experiences] this forgiveness of sins, except the believer …” and thus is limited to only those who trust in Christ;

            “That man has not saving grace of himself, nor of the energy of his free will,” and unaided by the Holy Spirit, no person is able to respond to God’s will;

            The (Christian) grace “of God is the beginning, continuance, and accomplishment of any good,” yet man may resist the Holy Spirit; and

            Believers are able to resist sin through grace, and Christ will keep them from falling; but whether they are beyond the possibility of ultimately forsaking God or “becoming devoid of grace … must be more particularly determined from the Scriptures.”

            christianity …. IS NOT ABOUT YOU …..

          • Eldrida Urika

            I don’t recall ever saying it was about me. Jesus is my Lord and Savior and it is ALL about him, not about us. He is the one with power and we have none unless the Lord God gives us some.
            Once again you choose to cherry pick my replies because you don’t read the whole post.
            I have not talked about a large number of things that you are trying to say is in my belief. Some are the same, but I don’t know about that guy, but our belief is strictly from the bible and there is no other source. Not even the church doctrine can over-ride what I do in Jesus’ name for his cause. He is all I want and all I need. But it is the love he has for me, and that I have for him that makes me want to obey him. You cannot refute anything I say when I refer everything to scriptures with confidence to tell you ALL to read the gospel and obey all of Jesus’ commands including about our behavior and how he wants it to reflect his own behavior and be a beam of light.

            So, Now I find the scriptures for those things, and prove what I have said about those things. other than the parts that are my personal belief that Jesus is the ONLY thing and it’s all about him. I’ve got this copied to make sure I get them all. I’ll use a new reply when I have gathered them all. I don’t want to disappoint you when I said I would start posting the scriptures to help you understand what Jesus said that is where I have my beliefs from. Only God’s Word is the Truth. If it is not in God’s Word, it is not the Truth. I will be back with the scriptures at some point this week. I have a lot on my plate this week so it might have to be at the end of the week. I Shall Return!!!

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            when our theology is centered around our “free will” …….. it is about us …….. and not about Christ ……. the only one with free will is God ….. He is the only free agent ….. we have a creaturely will ….. and it does not override Gods will ………..

          • Eldrida Urika

            no it is not centered around Man, It is God who gave us free will himself. He is the one who wants us to choose HIM and he wants it to be by our choice to follow him. He obviously can’t be controlling people Amos.
            2 Questions for you Amos.
            If God wanted to control our will and make us do only his will without it being our free will to choose, why did he bother when he could just smite the ones he knew were never going to follow him and just have the ones who he has control of? He’s God so he can do anything – He is omnipotent and there is no one who is like him.
            The other question is Since free will is talked about in the scriptures that you haven’t picked up on apparently, how do you explain why he gave it to us if he would just ignore our free will. He would have not given us free will to choose to follow him Amos. He wouldn’t have to control us because we desire to be with Jesus not because he is making anyone to worship him.
            So 1. why did he bother
            and 2. why did he give us free will in the first place?
            I add, why do the scriptures state that the Lord gave us free will to choose him specifically since the scripture is very straight forward about free will and why he gave it to us which was to choose to follow Jesus – to choose to believe.
            He wants all to come to repentance and be saved:

            1 Timothy 2:
            3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
            4 Who will have ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
            5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
            6 Who GAVE HIMSELF A RANSOM FOR ALL, to be testified in due time.

            John 3:
            14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
            15 THAT WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
            16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER
            BELIEVETH IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH, BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.
            17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the WORLD
            THROUGH HIM MIGHT BE SAVED.

            You see, the scriptures say it, and this is only twp of them. He wants to SAVE THE WORLD not just a few select people Amos, he wants every single person to come to him. As those scriptures state, “to have everlasting life” ,whosoever means who ever, like those that do choose to follow him.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “God who gave us free will himself.”

            nothing in scripture about free will ………. so wrong and a lie ……. we are His CREATURES as we are His CREATION ….. He did not create us as His equal …… if He did then WE would be Gods also ….. WE ARE NOT ……….. free will is IDOLATRY ………….

          • Eldrida Urika

            Tell me something Amos How can we sin if we have no free will?
            How can we TRY NOT to sin, without our free will making that choice?
            When Apostle Paul wrote to the Romans he said this:
            Romans 7:14-21
            14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
            15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
            16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
            17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
            18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will
            is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
            19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
            20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
            21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

            If an Apostle had trouble resisting sin and confessed to committing the sin even KNOWING it was wrong, how was he able to not go with God and commit the sin anyway. If he did not have free will, Amos, How could he CHOOSE to sin INSTEAD of doing GOOD.
            It is with our free will we choose to follow our flesh instead of God’s Word and why we have to repent and ask for forgiveness. We even choose whether to repent or believe that the sin did not matter and not be washed of the sin.

            Amos, we have the free will to choose to follow Jesus, and we have the free will to choose not to continue to sin because we are following Jesus, and to try not to, but the fact that we have to TRY not to, shows our free will right there.
            Since it is everyone who must try not to sin and to recognize their sins in order to repent and not continue to sin, He has given us free will to do that or not.
            Amos, the people in the church who go home not changed, and do not touch their bibles and skip church to stay home and watch baseball, and think nothing about their sins, they consider themselves to be Christian just like you and I do, but they won’t have salvation. They don’t really follow Christ and by choosing to believe that their actions are OK with God, they don’t recognize that it will affect their salvation.

            Those are the kind of Elect that won’t make it either. You must follow the Lord’s commandments and that attitude is not of God.

            Our free will also affects whether we are saved because we can choose to not follow Jesus completely and it is said that one sin is the same as the other and committing sin for one thing is just like committing many sins when it comes to the consequences of our actions. So even disobeying one of Jesus’ commands is a sin that could make your journey all in vain.

            1 Corinthians 15:1-2
            “Moreover, brethren I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand by which also you are saved if you hold fast that word which I preached to you – unless you believed in vain”

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            we have a FALLEN Creaturely will ….. we do not have a Godly will and we as unsaved and unregenerate people are at ENMITY to God …. our essential nature is to sin ….. and even though we have the “choice” before us to choose God and His ways …. we never will …. we are not capable …. and scripture says so specifically ……… we cannot know them …. they are foolishness to us …. we are DEAD to them, dead in trespasses and sins ….. and unless and until GOD changes that essential nature …. even though the “choice” is there ….. we will not do so …….. we will NEVER do so …….. GOD is the essential ingredient …. NOT man and his “free will” …. as that “free will” does not exist …. not for man …

            1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

            Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

            Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

            Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

            Jas 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

            this is the issue …. you are making category errors …. you want to equate our will to Gods will ….. we do not have the will God has …. they are NOT the same ….. and scripture makes that plain …………..

          • Eldrida Urika

            NO I am not making errors I put more scriptures in another reply to show our choice by free will.
            I have not tried to equate our will with God’s. God is far too high for any human to that.

            What I have done is shown you GODS WILL for us to WANT us to follow him without using his power to make us choose.

            YOUR scripture proves what I say about having to DO what Jesus commanded us to beyond the 2 commandments about Love and to Treat people the way we want to be treated. It’s all his commandments that we need to do, not just picking out some to follow and ignore the other commands. Jesus never spoke in the bible without there being a message in his words for us to follow.

            Jas 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

            Do the Lord’s commands
            This says you can lose your salvation unless you stick to the Lord’s commands
            1 Corinthians 15:1-2
            “Moreover, brethren I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you,
            which also you received and in which you stand by which also you are saved IF
            YOU HOLD FAST that word which I preached to you – unless you believed in vain”

            Do my Commands
            Philippians 4:8 + 9
            8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
            9 Those things, which YE HAVE BOTH LEARNED, AND RECEIVED, AND HEARD, AND SEEN IN ME, DO: and the God of peace shall be with you.

            Luke 6 46-49
            46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and DO NOT THE THINGS WHICH I SAY?
            47 WHOSOEVER COMETH TO ME, AND HEARETH MY SAYINGS, AND DOETH THEM, I will shew you to whom he is like:
            48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
            49 But he that heareth, and DOETH NOT, is like a man that without a foundation built
            an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and
            immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

            John 14:15
            15 If ye love me, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.

            John 14:21, 23-24
            21 He that hath my commandments, and KEEPETH THEM, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
            23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, HE WILL KEEP MY WORDS: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
            24 He that loveth me NOT KEEPETH NOT MY SAYINGS: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me.

            Not doing his will is how the Elect can lose their Salvation.
            Matthew 25:
            35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty,
            and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
            36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
            37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
            38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
            39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
            40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
            41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
            42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
            43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
            44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
            45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
            Next Post for more

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            CATEGORY ERRORS …. that is not scriptural error …… that is YOUR ERROR ………… and you have YET to provide any scriptural evidence that we have “FREE WILL” …….. we do not have autonomous free will …… only God has autonomous free will …. we are CREATURES ….. and have a CREATURELY will …..

          • Eldrida Urika

            That is because you do not understand that free will is the ability to choose and when God told to “choose Life” with God or “Choose Death” for not choosing to follow him.
            Obviously Adam and Eve had the ability to go against God’s Word and eat from the tree he told them strictly not to eat from. That took free will to be able to decide to go against God’s Word. In other words, they chose to sin .
            Apostle Paul wrote letters to teach various lessons with the letters, and one part was about how hard it was for him (an apostle – closest thing to Jesus at the time) to avoid sin and do good when sinning is so much more like what we WANT to do, and he taught that it was not an easy thing to be able to do but with the Lord, you can do anything.
            If you want him to help him to stop you from sinning, you have to ask in Jesus’ name.
            Otherwise it is you choosing to go against Jesus. He doesn’t offer it up front, he gives us trials to learn the lessons he wants us to learn. He wants our love to be freely given so it can’t be from his power.
            Stating that Salvation is for the world not just the Jews, and that Jesus DIED for everyone’s sin, whether they believed at that time or it was centuries later, he died for every single persons sin with NO exceptions. There are not “special” people who get first dibs at heaven, there are people who are the most faithful of all the people, those will be sent to heaven. By doing every command that Jesus gave to us to do and be like. Otherwise you can expect to lose your salvation like those men at the Gate that Jesus told them to – well technically, Jesus told them to Go to Hell, which is where the punishment for sinning ie. not doing Jesus’ commands willingly for the good of the people and to bring everyone to salvation because he died for everyone and he did not say there are exceptions about that.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            A category mistake, or category error, or categorical mistake, or mistake of category, is a semantic or ontological error in which things belonging to a particular category are presented as if they belong to a different category,[1] or, alternatively, a property is ascribed to a thing that could not possibly have that property. An example is the metaphor “time crawled”, which if taken literally is not just false but a category mistake. To show that a category mistake has been committed one must typically show that once the phenomenon in question is properly understood, it becomes clear that the claim being made about it could not possibly be true.

          • Eldrida Urika

            You are not able to understand the bible properly because of the way your religion views that bible.

            There are many, many scriptures that have more than one way to view what it says.

            When you need the understanding of scriptures to help in my life he leads me to them in the bible and gives me the understanding that he wants me to see. Others might see it from a different angle and use it in a different part of their lives too. Scriptures hold clear messages and subtle messages that some people do not see at all. I guess that means you were not given complete understanding by the God you follow.
            I follow Jesus and I know the scriptures very well, Amos, and I do not make mistakes about how I understand it because the Holy Spirit is the one that gives me that understanding. It is of spiritual blessings, not of flesh.
            When you have had the second baptism – as an adult because you must understand what it means to be a follower of Christ and have mature abilities to make decisions about committing your life to Him – once you understand what the second baptism through the Lord gives us. The Holy Spirit that we have received by being baptized as a baby is silly because baptism is about the person being renewed and having past sins forgiven by repenting. A baby can’t do that.
            It takes a lot of faith, and diligently following all scriptures, and becoming closer and closer in a relationship with Jesus before you receive the second baptism because it takes a solid belief that is tested over and over again in trials before you are baptized with the Holy Spirit of Fire and Wind. – it is a spiritual baptism, not a man who does the first baptism of water which is the baptism of repentance.
            The second baptism is the Holy Spirit indwelling in us. It comes into our body and becomes a spiritual part of us . I expect you to disagree with this part but it is The Truth. See the Holy Spirit indwelling in us is different than the Holy Spirit of repentance. It is a spirit of God that is inside of those of us who have the Holy Spirit.

            It goes beyond just helping us try to resist temptation and to help us recognize our sin when we look for it, and to help us repent. That is the Water baptism of repentance.

            When the spirit is in you, it is not like it was before the baptism because the spirit has more control than your flesh did, and can speak to us to help us remember anything that you have learned in the bible. Scriptures that is. I’ve seen the difference and it is a visible difference whether you have the spirit or do not have it. If someone knows you they will find it will enhance our good traits and help us maintain our health better. It helps us to speak to God with Jesus as our mediator as we are in a much closer relationship than most Saints.
            Unfortunately for you, you don’t believe in the second baptism and don’t understand the difference or the way Jesus told us to bless the children not to baptize them, and he nor John ever baptized young people from the descriptions they were all grown men who were baptized in the river by John, then the Disciples. Jesus never baptized anyone himself but watched others to ensure they learned how to do it properly.

            The second baptism was delayed until after Jesus ascended to Heaven as it was a part of Jesus’ spirit that is ‘the comforter’ which is the Holy Spirit. So since Jesus is God, it is a part of His spirit. You did realize that the comforter could not come until after Jesus’ death and resurrection because it was a part of His spirit that would be used as the result of the second baptism.
            It is mainly about the belief that it is possible to happen – a very strong belief in it.

            But that belief gets stronger by reaching out to the Lord and trying to emulate him so it will give God the Glory. The more you understand scriptures properly, the closer you get to God. The closer you get to God, the more your belief will be stronger.

            The Holy Spirit works in you to change you to who God created you to be, and your Faith and devotion to Jesus grows until it is what your life is now. The desire to sin is worked through with the Holy Spirit’s strength to help us avoid the temptation when we need it.
            From experience I can tell you that it can be felt when the Holy Spirit is touching you. For one thing there is always a cool wind around when the Spirit is nearby. I have felt it go past me and touch others, because of the coolness. The Fire is the incredible change that you have to go through to be given the gift that the Lord has chosen for you.
            The Number one thing about it is that you must be following Jesus’ commands as closely as possible. That is a sign of faith, Amos.

            Not that I expect you to read this far, but what the hey! (or is that hay??)
            I hope I helped others to understand even if I do not ever reach you Amos.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            your Arminianism is REJECTED …. and AGAIN ….. you are trying to apply to man what ONLY applies to God ….. and that is your CATEGORY ERROR …… we are done Sharon ……..

          • Eldrida Urika

            Excuse me but what category other than “Paul’s Letters” do the Corinthians or even the Romans fit. All of the letters were to help teach the people they were addressed to, to be the Christians, but the bible is teaching everyone not just the people they were addressed to. Everything in the bible is for our edification. All of us.
            ed·i·fi·ca·tion
            noun: edification – the instruction or improvement of a person morally or intellectually.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            your Arminianism is REJECTED …. and AGAIN ….. you are trying to apply to man what ONLY applies to God ….. and that is your CATEGORY ERROR …… we are done Sharon ……..

          • Eldrida Urika

            You are a riot! You try so hard to make me believe you when everything I have been taught and everything I have learned on my own has told me that you are totally wrong about the scriptures that you profess to ‘understand’ so well. You know that esthetics of the bible but you have not gotten deeply into the scriptures that are important at all.
            Especially when you don’t understand what the gospel says at all, if you have ever read it at all.

          • Eldrida Urika

            Free will
            Galatians 5:16-17
            16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
            17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so THAT YOU ARE NOT TO DO WHATEVER YOU WANT. (choosing to sin)

            So tell me why did Apostle Paul state that he kept sinning in ways that he knew better but did anyways?

            Romans 7:13-
            13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
            14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
            15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
            16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
            17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
            18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
            19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
            20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
            21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
            22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
            23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
            24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
            25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself
            serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Galatians was addressed to A CHURCH …. and the ASSUMPTION is that their natures were ALREADY CHANGED …… and that is NOT FREE WILL …. that is GOD changing their nature ….. NOT OF THEIR FREE WILL ………… but by GODS will ………. FAIL ….. try again ……….

            “So tell me why did Apostle Paul state that he kept sinning in ways that he knew better but did anyways?”

            because Paul, and we, are still in a FALLEN state …… and we are still subject to the fleshly desires of this world ……… and our perfection or SANCTIFICATION is ongoing ….. and will not be completed until our death and resurrection ….. and even though …. that IS NOT free will …….. it is CHOICE ….. but it is not “free will” ………. nor does it say “free will” ….. it is still CREATURELY WILL ……… as we are STILL GODS CREATURES and His creation ……… and you keep making the SAME CATEGORY ERRORS ……..

          • Eldrida Urika

            You don’t understand that everything in the bible is for the Saints to understand and use?
            If there is anything that is said in any of the letters that are in the NT about the church it is for us too!
            So Galatians was addressed to a church. What about it.
            Corinthians was addressed to a people.
            The Gospel of Matthew Mark Luke and John are for us to learn from them.
            You know what. You don’t understand enough of the bible to have a reasonable discussion with. You misunderstand too many scriptures with no recognition of error when it is proven to you.
            God is not controlling us Amos. No matter how much you resist the idea you are not being controlled by god in everything you do and just like Apostle Paul we are flesh.
            Why do you think Apostle Paul wasn’t able to avoid sinning when he was wanting to not sin? If god had changed his ability to be able to NOT sin, then he would not have even talked about how hard it can be for us to avoid some sin at the beginning of our journey.
            Amos, try to think about how I can show you scriptures and they show what I am saying, and stop trying to tell me what you think they mean because you are getting them all wrong.
            God doesn’t want to control our thoughts or our choices he wants us to love him so much that we desire to stop sinning FOR him.
            I hate to tell you this Amos… having a Choice IS free will. Free will is being allowed the choice to decide if we want to do one thing, or another.
            The only one that could not sin is Jesus. The rest of us sin almost daily whether we realize it or not. That’s why we have to repent and try not to sin again. Because we have the choice to keep trying to stop, or to continue in sin against God’s Word.
            According to the bible even the faithful can wax cold and not accept God’s provisions.

            Free Will = Choice.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “So Galatians was addressed to a church. What about it.”

            i already TOLD you …….. you CONTINUE to make CATEGORY ERRORS ………..

          • Eldrida Urika

            No you misunderstand the bible Amos. There are no scriptures that are for some and not for all of us. All of the NT is about the disciples or Apostles teaching us the lessons they learned from Jesus. That’s what it is FOR.
            Tell me, if God controls us so we resist sin, umm, why did they bother bringing Jesus to earth to die for our sins. He can just control us to not sin, can’t he, since for you, it has nothing about free Will to make that choice, whether it is in agreement to God’s Word, or not to follow Him. I posted a lot of scriptures to prove what I have said Amos. Do you not even read those after the “first mistake” that’s rather rude, especially when you know it was carefully put together to encourage you to see it differently than you do.
            Category Errors are able to have scriptures that affect other categories Amos.
            Give it up. I am going by God’s Word which every single thing in the bible is for US to use in our lives. Even the things in the OT that are about what God wanted the people to do as a show of Love for Himself.
            There is nothing that a Category would make NOT a lesson for All Saints to know, and use in their own lives. That’s why the bible is able to be used as a guide for every generation Amos. Oh and by the way, The bible is written to teach the Saints but it is necessary for unbelievers to know it too, so it is for All – just as it is that Jesus wants all to come to repentance and came to save THE WORLD. The scriptures that say that very thing are below.
            John 3:14 to 17
            14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
            15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
            16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
            17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the
            WORLD THROUGH HIM MIGHT BE SAVED.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            your Arminianism is REJECTED …. and AGAIN ….. you are trying to apply to man what ONLY applies to God ….. and that is your CATEGORY ERROR …… we are done Sharon …….. God is in control of all things INCLUDING sin …..

          • Eldrida Urika

            And I told you Romans and 1Corinthians are Categorized as Paul’s Letters. They are both letters and just because you refuse to believe that every thing in the bible is for everyone to learn the lessons in it. That is why Paul wrote the letters and why GOD included them in the bible. After all you must believe that The Lord created the Bible with his power over the writers to say what GOD wanted them to say. So what purpose would having a letter to a church in the bible without it being for the people who are reading the bible.
            I looked at the categories of the bible for you, and I found that it was under Paul’s Letters so I did not make any Category errors.

          • Eldrida Urika

            I know this is a bit long, but I would appreciate it if you read past my first mistake. I wrote a note to you in the bottom paragraph.
            We are not supposed to assume anything that isn’t in the scriptures. If we are supposed to know something God makes it very clear in the scripture. He does not leave things for us to figure out when he is commanding us to do things. He clearly tells us about how he wants his Church members to be like. He does not make us “like” Christians, we choose to follow the commands Jesus gave.
            Put it this way, Amos, If God wanted us to NOT do Jesus’ commands, why would he bother to tell us in the first place?
            IF there is absolutely NOTHING for us to do to earn our salvation even though scriptures are saying something else (a bit of a shaky bridge) for you.
            It also shows that you have not been taught about the scriptures being for all generations because it is a guide to all Christians who follow Jesus, but only the most faithful who do all the commands will get there. I gave you the scriptures, that show that we can lose our salvation. The lesson about the men who cry Lord Lord is told with an EXTREMELY CLEAR MEANING, telling us that even people who think they will have salvation will have a few things in our life books, that tells God the motivation of our actions is also part of being a Christian. God can see our thoughts and our actions at all times. We need to repent for thinking bad thoughts about other people just like we do for gossiping. He is with us always and he knows every little detail about our lives so nothing can be hidden from him, including the times when you pass by someone in need of help, without helping even though you were able to help them. Like not clothing, or feeding Jesus in the scripture.
            You haven’t learned how to read the scriptures, all you’ve been taught is a history lesson if you were not told it is for every generation to follow; to use as a guide to our lives.
            HOW can you know so much and yet so little. SMH
            Being able to read the scriptures does not make you a Christian without understanding what Jesus says in the words in red, or what the disciples and Apostles taught everyone who reads the bible those lessons. It’s not just for the people the letter was to. All of us need those lessons to know how to handle some situations without giving in to sin when they are presented to us in life.
            Your education for the bible seems to be lacking understanding the Gospel which is the most important part about Salvation. It’s almost like you’ve never read it yourself ever. Do you not realize how important the NT is? You can’t pick and choose what to obey and what not to IF you want Salvation, you have to show you are willing to obey his commands and DO them, not just talk about his commands. He said we had to DO his commandments too.

            >>>>>>>>THIS IS FOR YOU AMOS<<<<<<<<
            I wish you would stop this only to the first mistake thing. What about what you perceive as an error in the rest of the post? Don't you want to point those out to me too? There could be tons of them in every post and you have missed correcting me over and over because you don't read all of my post. I try to explain my points and you are missing the majority of them without reading them. That's rude and disrespectful to me Amos. Not proper behavior and especially not to a sister in Faith. You should show me respect because you prefer to be spoken to with it, or because I treat you with respect.
            So please stop ignoring the majority of my posts and maybe you will find something accurate for a change. I've never tried to demean you at all. I say that your way is wrong to recognize your mistake of not adhering to Jesus' commands. I keep telling you that you can lose your salvation and proving it with very clear scriptures about the matter.
            Personally I do not want to be doing all things faithfully and find out I missed something so I am careful to be aware of people around me and treat everyone the way Jesus told us to so it is not me calling to the Lord, and being sent away.
            I do not intend to lose the Lord's offer of Salvation by not being what he – who is the corner stone of our church – the person who he created me to be by ignoring his commands. If you want to take that chance having been told about it and not do it, Jesus told us the problem about not doing his commands.
            SIGH How can you not look and take that chance Amos. How can you ignore the way the scriptures tell us to DO HIS COMMANDS and think that you can skip any of what he tell us as a command. Anything he tells us to be like, to be doing, to be loving…
            If you don't treat people the way you want to be treated, but instead treat them badly, that is a sin because you disobeyed God's Word by being a person who ignores the true meanings of Jesus' commands.
            God loves us SO much that he sent his only begotten son to die for our sins, and before his son died on that cross, Jesus taught us through the lessons to through out the New Testament. He went through all about sin and recognizing it. and how to treat our brethren and how to treat the people you need to help even when they are sinners so they can see our behavior as outstanding, so we can give all the glory to God.
            It's all about Jesus but it is for us as a guide from Jesus, so if we don't have the choice whether to sin or not, then no Christian would ever sin and we both know that is not true, but those people tell others they are Christian just like you would.
            Read the bible for yourself and ask God for understanding and He has promised he will give us that when we ask for it in Jesus' name. He never fails in his promises Amos.
            So read the new testament with new understanding provided by the Holy Spirit for your benefit. To bring you closer to Jesus which is what every Christian wants a closer relationship with Jesus. Reading the complete bible is important to help with understanding, but it is the New Testament that tells us how to become Christ-like and give God the Glory for our choice to obey him.
            You probably stopped reading before now.. sadly.

          • Eldrida Urika

            I am addressing Free will in this reply. It has scriptures from both the OT and the NT and it shows 2 things. One is that we have the free will to choose whether to believe in him, and that Jesus himself said that those who choose not to believe will not be Judged (on earth)
            He treats the unbeliever as he does the believer and he will SAVE them
            This is about those who do not CHOOSE to follow the Lord.

            Isaiah 55:6-7
            6 Seek the LORD while he may be found; call on him while he is near.
            7 Let the wicked forsake their ways and the unrighteous their thoughts. Let them turn to the LORD, and HE WILL HAVE MERCY ON THEM, AND TO OUR GOD, FOR HE WILL FREELY PARDON.

            Jesus told us that HE will not JUDGE anyone who does not believe.

            John 12
            44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.
            45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.
            46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
            47 And if any man hear my words, AND BELIEVE NOT, I JUDGE HIM NOT: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

            Free will to choose to believe (Live) or not to believe (death)

            Deuteronomy 30:19-20
            19 This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now CHOOSE LIFE, so that you and your children may live

            Free will can make us do what we want to do instead of what God wants us to do

            Galatians 5:16-17
            16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
            17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so THAT YOU ARE NOT TO DO WHATEVER YOU WANT.

            So you see, Amoshere are scriptures that discuss our “free will” even though they don’t use that PHRASE .

            More replies with scriptures coming!

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            the term “free will” does not exist in scripture ….. CHOICE is NOT free will ….. it is CHOICE ….. and your desire to make it so is IDOLATRY ……….

          • Eldrida Urika

            The term means this:
            Free will is the ability to CHOOSES between different possible courses of action unimpeded.
            That word chooses is another form of choice and it IS free will.

            Amos, IT MEANS THE SAME THING!! Free will Means Having a choice.

            I can’t believe you think that free will is anything but making our choice to do right or do wrong. No free will Is not in the bible but neither is homosexuals and you always say that is a sin therefore it is from the bible.

            Free will and Choice are Synonyms? You do know what a synonym is don’t you?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “Free will is the ability to CHOOSES between different possible courses of action unimpeded.”

            GOD IMPEDES YOU ………… and that definition is MANS DEFINITION …… and NOT BIBLICAL …..

            your Arminianism is REJECTED …. and AGAIN ….. you are trying to apply to man what ONLY applies to God ….. and that is your CATEGORY ERROR …… we are done Sharon ……..

          • Eldrida Urika

            Stop calling me something I AM NOT.

            You are being rude to me again. You have lost my respect and anything you say is questionable now because of it. A Christian does not act rude nor demean by calling others names like children.
            Goodbye I will not answer you again unless you can show more respect for me than you have. Don’t bother replying to my posts because you will not be able to teach anything valid in my opinion. You do not know the bible scriptures well enough to claim you have salvation. You have to know ALL of the scriptures to be able to be obedient to all Jesus’ commands.

            If you want to take a chance on being punished instead of rejoicing with the Saints, go right ahead but know that you have been told and so now it is in your hands whether to read the scriptures to confirm or negate my scriptures. Because I have the understanding of the scriptures you do not seem to know at all.

            So see you!

          • Eldrida Urika

            God impedes all Saints to not sin.
            Show me the scriptures so I can read up to your first mistake too.
            I do not believe there is scriptures that are not for everyone to be edified with.

            I have shown you over and over again that scriptures say something different than you say and I go strictly by the scriptures so I can’t be confused about what it is intended to say. You can’t even get to show understanding in the scriptures if you seriously think you have NOTHING to do for salvation and If you say you are a sinner, you are a liar.

            So are you saying God can make us not sin but still allows it even after he has used impediments to stop you? So you are saying God failed. If he was going to stop us from sinning then he didn’t do a good job as we still sin. You are telling me that God failed at stopping his people from sinning.
            Well, right there, it proves you have no clue about the scriptures again.

            No clues and no respect is not a good way to discuss things like rational mature adults, I start to wonder if you are a youngster hiding behind that picture of a poor black man from back in the day.

            Too bad you don’t choose to follow everything that Jesus says instead of ignoring it and taking your salvation and trying in vain. SO MANY SCRIPTURES THAT YOU ARE IGNORING.
            See ya!

          • Eldrida Urika

            Another thing. DO NOT CALL ME BY MY COUSINS NAME!!
            I let it pass for a few times when people do this and tell them not to, but if they insist on calling me by her name, I start getting annoyed. I AM NOT MY COUSINS KEEPER and there are a lot of people who believe the same things both of us do, so stop trying to make it out like there can only be one person who talks about their belief being different than ours. We also learned together so we think in the same way.
            My name is Eldrida and I would like you to remember that, please.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            sure … whatever SHARON ………… (sock puppet) ……….

          • Eldrida Urika

            Another show of no respect. You have no clue how to act like a Christian Amos. If you are not a true brother then I don’t have to show you the respect of replying to you.
            I’ll still watch what you post and counter it though. This is a Christian site, and it is not for just your faith, Amos. So, see you!

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Arminianism REJECTED ……..

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Isaiah

            10:7 Howbeit he meaneth not so, neither doth his heart think so; but it is in his heart to destroy and cut off nations not a few.
            10:8 For he saith, Are not my princes altogether kings?
            10:9 Is not Calno as Carchemish? is not Hamath as Arpad? is not Samaria as Damascus?
            10:10 As my hand hath found the kingdoms of the idols, and whose graven images did excel them of Jerusalem and of Samaria;
            10:11 Shall I not, as I have done unto Samaria and her idols, so do to Jerusalem and her idols?
            10:12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord hath performed his whole work upon mount Zion and on Jerusalem, I will punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his high looks.
            10:13 For he saith, By the strength of my hand I have done it, and by my wisdom; for I am prudent: and I have removed the bounds of the people, and have robbed their treasures, and I have put down the inhabitants like a valiant man:
            10:14 And my hand hath found as a nest the riches of the people: and as one gathereth eggs that are left, have I gathered all the earth; and there was none that moved the wing, or opened the mouth, or peeped.
            10:15 Shall the axe boast itself against him that heweth therewith? or shall the saw magnify itself against him that shaketh it? as if the rod should shake itself against them that lift it up, or as if the staff should lift up itself, as if it were no wood.
            10:16 Therefore shall the Lord, the Lord of hosts, send among his fat ones leanness; and under his glory he shall kindle a burning like the burning of a fire.
            10:17 And the light of Israel shall be for a fire, and his Holy One for a flame: and it shall burn and devour his thorns and his briers in one day;
            10:18 And shall consume the glory of his forest, and of his fruitful field, both soul and body: and they shall be as when a standard-bearer fainteth.
            10:19 And the rest of the trees of his forest shall be few, that a child may write them.
            10:20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.
            10:21 The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.
            10:22 For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.
            10:23 For the Lord GOD of hosts shall make a consumption, even determined, in the midst of all the land.
            10:24 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD of hosts, O my people that dwellest in Zion, be not afraid of the Assyrian: he shall smite thee with a rod, and shall lift up his staff against thee, after the manner of Egypt.
            10:25 For yet a very little while, and the indignation shall cease, and mine anger in their destruction.
            10:26 And the LORD of hosts shall stir up a scourge for him according to the slaughter of Midian at the rock of Oreb: and as his rod was upon the sea, so shall he lift it up after the manner of Egypt.
            10:27 And it shall come to pass in that day, that his burden shall be taken away from off thy shoulder, and his yoke from off thy neck, and the yoke shall be destroyed because of the anointing.
            10:28 He is come to Aiath, he is passed to Migron; at Michmash he hath laid up his carriages:
            10:29 They are gone over the passage: they have taken up their lodging at Geba; Ramah is afraid; Gibeah of Saul is fled.
            10:30 Lift up thy voice, O daughter of Gallim: cause it to be heard unto Laish, O poor Anathoth.
            10:31 Madmenah is removed; the inhabitants of Gebim gather themselves to flee.
            10:32 As yet shall he remain at Nob that day: he shall shake his hand against the mount of the daughter of Zion, the hill of Jerusalem.
            10:33 Behold, the Lord, the LORD of hosts, shall lop the bough with terror: and the high ones of stature shall be hewn down, and the haughty shall be humbled.
            10:34 And he shall cut down the thickets of the forest with iron, and Lebanon shall fall by a mighty one.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Choice IS NOT “free will” …..

          • Eldrida Urika

            Have fun when you are being judged Amos. I have nothing else to say to you.

          • Eldrida Urika

            You are ignorant of the bible in a lot of ways Amos. But still you won’t confirm what I say is in the scriptures. Do you not know that it is a command to read the bible until we are familiar with all scriptures? I know you won’t admit to Jesus telling us in the bible that he is/was here to save everyone and not just a few select people, and since John 3:16 is a major scripture in the NT you really should learn that it states that he is coming to save everyone. So are you calling Jesus a LIAR Amos? He can’t lie, so you must be wrong that he is a liar. So therefore Amos, it is your belief that is wrong. Jesus would never lie and he’d not say that specifically if he did not mean it. Anything and Everything that Jesus Said and Did was to teach us Amos. If you were not shown this, then you are missing a big part of the gospel and should really read it and confirm what you have been told about Jesus; His commands: His life teaching the people what is needed for salvation, before he died for everyone – I gave you a scripture that was boldly said that Jesus died to save THE WORLD, Amos. You keep ignoring both my cousins and mine and you do not check the scriptures, it is your failure to do it. If you are strong in your faith in your belief, looking at the scriptures I give you should not bother you as you should be confident in what and why you believe with scriptures to support such a belief. Without reading and getting familiar with the Gospel is imperative to everyone’s salvation. I think you were led astray by someone who taught you about the bible and the Lord Jesus Christ our Savior. It happens! God will lead you to the right path when he gives us guidance but you are being like the two men on a roof surrounded by flood waters, and a man in a rowboat came by and offered them a ride to get to higher ground. Well the men were very faithful and told the man that they knew the Lord would save them. Later on a helicopter came to take out the last of the people still in the flood zone and told him to come with them to be safe from the flood waters. The men told them that they had been praying and they are positive that their Lord would save them, so off the helicopter went leaving them behind and of course the two men drown and went to heaven. When they were presented to the Lord, they asked why he did not save them. (can you see this one coming?)
            The Good and Just Lord looked confused and said, I sent you a boat and then a helicopter, that should have been enough.
            We can’t look only to what we want when we pray to the Lord, but look for his goodness and blessings all around us or you will not see the Lord moving in your life.
            If our prayer is selfish, he will not allow it to be done. If our request is not something that will be good for us (he knows what is in our futures) and another thing he might do is say Ok, but only in HIS Timing which is different than ours. It means there is likely another test of your faith, or just that it needed to be in your plan at the right time for another thing to happen that needs to begin at that time. We cannot know the Lord’s plans and we must be grateful for everything he does for us, even the things we are not aware of.
            If any of this is not familiar read the scriptures yourself. I gave you many scriptures about the things you insist the scriptures do not say and you make a wild shot like it isn’t in the right category which is wrong! The 2 scriptures were both under the category of Paul’s Letters. So it was a prevarication to distract me from something else I am guessing. Probably the fact that you have not addressed the post that cited many scriptures that reflected that my understanding which was in opposition to yours but it was a valid fact that the scriptures say it and that there is no other explanation to why it would say what it does say, without your belief intact. I guess it’s hard to reply to a post that proves you are ignoring God’s Word, and for the selfish reason of wanting to be in a better place than everyone else as a person who is high up the world top people to God. He will see your selfishness at wanting to ride it high on your belief and will see the things like your demeaning or being rude to others; your belief that you have any right to tell anyone they are condemned and will not be saved. God decides that from a lot of factors that we are not privy to, so no you do not have any more authority that to point out our belief that something is a sin, and the complete salvation offer from Jesus. OH, wait, do you know what the offer of salvation is about at all?
            You know, I know, you won’t answer that because you are rude and disrespectful to me again which is not any piece of the Fruit of the Spirit so you have been identified as a non Christian. We can tell another Christian by their fruit, which you have never told me whether you understand the Fruits and I’ve given you plenty of references to Galatians 5:22 – 23.
            Hopefully something I said reached a few of the readers since I doubt that it will ever reach to Amos that he is being directed by God to change his faith and he’s ignoring both the boat and the helicopter, and will be judged on Judgement Day on his lack of faithfulness of believing that it could be true, simply because he will not check the scriptures I give him to confirm either what I say is true or not.
            Always check the scriptures to confirm what they say no matter who teaches you anything from the bible to see what is around those scriptures (context) so you can choose which things to believe and which to decide about your self in case it does not fit in your own beliefs. It is told to us to always check them because of the scribes and Pharisees saying one thing and living differently than how they told the students to. Jesus recommended (commanded) we always check even if it is our regular leader they can make mistakes or they can not see the same thing as you do when you read the same scriptures. It’s important because that is one of the ways that God blesses us by helping our understanding of the scriptures. Ask God to help you with understanding always before you read the bible, he’s never failed to help me.
            Blessings all you who read to the end!!

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Arminianism REJECTED …..

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Classical Arminianism[edit]
            Classical Arminianism is the theological system that was presented by Jacobus Arminius and maintained by some of the Remonstrants;[15] its influence serves as the foundation for all Arminian systems. A list of beliefs is given below:

            Depravity is total: Arminius states “In this [fallen] state, the free will of man towards the true good is not only wounded, infirm, bent, and weakened; but it is also imprisoned, destroyed, and lost. And its powers are not only debilitated and useless unless they be assisted by grace, but it has no powers whatever except such as are excited by Divine grace.”
            Atonement is intended for all: Jesus’s death was for all people, Jesus draws all people to himself, and all people have opportunity for salvation through faith.
            Jesus’s death satisfies God’s justice: The penalty for the sins of the elect is paid in full through Jesus’s work on the cross. Thus Christ’s atonement is intended for all, but requires faith to be effected. Arminius states that “Justification, when used for the act of a Judge, is either purely the imputation of righteousness through mercy… or that man is justified before God… according to the rigor of justice without any forgiveness.”
            Stephen Ashby clarifies: “Arminius allowed for only two possible ways in which the sinner might be justified: (1) by our absolute and perfect adherence to the law, or (2) purely by God’s imputation of Christ’s righteousness.”
            Grace is resistible: God takes initiative in the salvation process and his grace comes to all people. This grace (often called prevenient or pre-regenerating grace) acts on all people to convince them of the Gospel, draw them strongly towards salvation, and enable the possibility of sincere faith. Picirilli states that “indeed this grace is so close to regeneration that it inevitably leads to regeneration unless finally resisted.” The offer of salvation through grace does not act irresistibly in a purely cause-effect, deterministic method but rather in an influence-and-response fashion that can be both freely accepted and freely denied.
            Man has a freed will to respond or resist: Free will is granted and limited by God’s sovereignty, but God’s sovereignty allows all men the choice to accept the Gospel of Jesus through faith, simultaneously allowing all men to resist.
            Election is conditional: Arminius defined election as “the decree of God by which, of Himself, from eternity, He decreed to justify in Christ, believers, and to accept them unto eternal life.”[22] God alone determines who will be saved and his determination is that all who believe Jesus through faith will be justified. According to Arminius, “God regards no one in Christ unless they are engrafted in him by faith.”
            God predestines the elect to a glorious future: Predestination is not the predetermination of who will believe, but rather the predetermination of the believer’s future inheritance. The elect are therefore predestined to sonship through adoption, glorification, and eternal life.
            Christ’s righteousness is imputed to the believer: Justification is sola fide (by faith alone). When individuals repent and believe in Christ (saving faith), they are regenerated and brought into union with Christ, whereby the death and righteousness of Christ are imputed to them for their justification before God.
            Eternal security is also conditional: All believers have full assurance of salvation with the condition that they remain in Christ. Salvation is conditioned on faith, therefore perseverance is also conditioned. Apostasy (turning from Christ) is only committed through a deliberate, willful rejection of Jesus and renunciation of saving faith. Such apostasy is irremediable.

          • Dr_Gonzzzo

            Apparently your god is a huge failure since so many are doomed for eternal torture for not being as insanely brainwashed as you.,
            Tell me Christian… Do you know anything about the world outside of what you think you know about your so called savior?
            Are you under impression that your salvation comes from an outside entity based on whether you worshipped him enough and condemned transgender people with as much passion?
            So for the sake of argument.. Where exactly did your Jesus condemn transgender people and condone your attitudes towards them?
            As a secular question.. Where does the constitution enable -Christians to impose fake Christian dogmas to deny transgender people equal protection under the law?
            Where does the constitution allow you to deny them the right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope …. my God saves everyone whom HE CHOOSES perfectly …… EVERYTIME ….. and the rest are not His concern ……… FAIL ……………..

          • Dr_Gonzzzo

            Sorry.,
            But Christianity is an external dogma imposed on kids since childhood. Molding their brains to believe that fairy tales are real, and act holier than thou when bullying other kids…,
            Christianity is a disgusting, immoral, violent cult incapable of coexisting with others where you think you are entitled to violently force your sick beliefs on others while you enslave them, rape them and murder them.
            I am afraid, sir, that your Christianity is a false dogma based on control: Fear, hate, greed, tribalism, division, violence and suppression.
            Your Christianity has all the worst elements this 3rd dimension has to offer..
            1900 years of blood soaked history speaks it’s loud evidence for this claim.
            Give a Christian fundie political power and he will do his best to make the lives of everyone who do not bow down to his dictate a living hell.
            Your brand of Christianity is as far from what your messiah preached as we can possibly come…

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            more ignorant comments from ‘dem internets “doctor” ……….. you have no idea what you are commenting on ….. IGNORED ………….

          • Silas Jennings

            No because I understand that people properly educated in the field of science will have the correct credentials and do not believe a magic holy book from 2000 years ago is a better source. THAT is what blind faith is.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            again …. so BLIND FAITH in what someone else has SAID ….. not if it is the truth ….. and no personal knowledge of either …… ok ………..

          • Silas Jennings

            OK so clearly you don’t know what blind faith is. Blind faith isn’t when you put your trust in accepted science. It’s when you put your trust in ancient religions and other things that tell you to believe in them when thy have no proof behind them. Unless you want to tell me that trusting gravity is blind faith too.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            clearly you DO have blind faith and yet are so blind to it you cannot recognize your own ……… thnx ….. see ya …………

          • Silas Jennings

            Are you going to tell all the airline passengers in the world they rely on blind faith too because they don’t have the knowledge of how to fly the plane themselves, but only put blind faith in their pilot? See how stupid it sounds now? You are the kind of person who would allow their child to die of a disease rather than allow a vaccine that would save them from it.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “Are you going to tell all the airline passengers in the world they rely on blind faith too because they don’t have the knowledge of how to fly the plane themselves, but only put blind faith in their pilot?”

            YUP ………….

            “You are the kind of person who would allow their child to die of a disease rather than allow a vaccine that would save them from it.”

            has nothing to do with our decision ….. it is Gods decision ……….

          • Silas Jennings

            “YUP”

            Well then, there is a word for what you are but it’s not allowed to be used in discussions here. Because that is not blind faith. The “blind “aspect is missing when you put your trust in a pilot or a medical professional or a hair stylist or dentist. All those people in all those professions have learned the skills so we don’t have to. That doesn’t make us blind.

            Blind faith relates entirely to religion.

            “It is Gods decision”

            No it isn’t. Faith healing parents kill their children, and I can give you many examples of it where the parents have gone to jail.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ignored ………..

          • Silas Jennings

            Not surprised.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ignored ……….

          • Alec Pinder

            You know, you should really shut your yap with these “ignored” comments. No one cares that you’re ignoring them (and when you post the idiotic comment, you’re just showing how you HAVEN’T ignored it).

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            IGNORED ………….

          • Alec Pinder

            FUCK YOU

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            TOS Violation ………… WAS nice not knowing you ……………

          • Eldrida Urika

            Does that mean you would Amos? Let a child die when it could be saved? God is in control of everything but we have to recognize it when we are given help for our worst problems. God does not always just use his power to heal or anything else. He often sends someone else to intervene with a message from God. Look how many times a doctor who just happened to find out about a person who would die without the surgery and arrives just in time to do it and they are saved because God brought them to the right place at the right time.
            If God didn’t create the vaccine through the people to benefit the human race, then wouldn’t that make it evil and therefore kill or make ill everyone who has it? God is good and he takes care of us, and that includes with our healing. Yes he can and does to healing himself, but more often it is in the way of someone else, and by refusing the doctors that God sent to answer your prayers for healing. you are saying that you don’t trust that God will answer you when you ask for healing. You must trust that God will provide a way and that he does it, in many ways that you have to recognize in your life. Otherwise you are killing a child in God’s eyes from not taking care of that child and therefore allowing it to die. God gave us doctors to help us and whether it is in the bible or not, God has all control and nothing is done without his approval. If he did not want you to give the child the necessary medicine then it would not be available for them. If you gave the child the medicine that would heal it and then it died, that’s God’s decision, but anyone who has read the bible that anyone who hurts one of the children will be sent downstairs for it. That would make it a very hard decision if you are considering that God is omnipotent and he does things that are way above our ability to understand what he is doing and for what purposes. We can’t second guess God and decide that a vaccination is wrong when it has already proven that God sent it by all the GOOD it has already done. They do too much good to be from an evil source.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            just more of your arminian thought … God has decreed the end from the beginning ……. NOTHING and we do alters His plan …. there is no “plan B” because SHARON got a bee in her bonnet to do something outside His plan …….sorry ….. arminianism is a FAILED outlook on who God is ….. and HOW God operates …. it is UNSCRIPTURAL ………….

          • Eldrida Urika

            You don’t believe in God like he wants us to. Not following Jesus’ commands will make a difference to whether we are saved according to JESUS. Not my words. Jesus’ Words. It may be all set, but it is also set for those of the Elite who do not follow the commands and will not be saved too. So you see if you don’t do his commands, it is because you don’t choose to so it will be seen as wilful disobedience.
            JESUS told us “If you love me, keep my commandments” John 14:15 He also said : John 14:21
            “He that hath my commandments, and KEEPETH them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.”

            You see I didn’t even know what it was until I googled it.
            The problem with your ACCUSATION is that I am not of that religion – or belief – in any way, as it is not Jacobus Arminius who brought me to Jesus and I am totally unfamiliar with anything besides a quick search and scan of the article to find out what you are accusing me of since you obviously feel that it is an INSULT to call me that.
            INSULTS are against the rules of this board. So is targeting harassment which is your constant INSULTING in your posts about something YOU KNOW IS NOT TRUE, so you are trying to hurt my reputation by accusing me of a lie.

            Those things are BOTH grounds to be banned Amos.
            I suggest you read the rules over because you are constantly breaking them. I’m not putting up with it anymore. Every time you try to put my belief into a LIE you are harrassing me and trying to make others not believe me about my faith.

            I guess if I was not a Christian, as it has happened so continually, I would start telling you the same thing with AN ACCUSING way, but I am not going to go against MY GOD’s commands, and let myself do that. It’s against God’s commandments to say anything against anyone who is helping others turn to Jesus. I can find that scripture for you if you want. I know it would be hard for you to find because it is in the Gospel and you don’t appear to know that very well.

            Let me know if you read this far if you want the scripture to support that Jesus told his disciples that when they complained about someone they met that was preaching and performing miracles.

            He told them that it was ok, and not to stop others from turning people to God. It’s right there in scriptures Amos.

            Last time. Amos DO NOT HARASS ME, DO NOT IMPLY I AM NOT FOLLOWING THE BIBLE. OR I WILL ASK THEM TO BAN YOU. AND FOLLOW IT UP THE LINE IF THEY DO NOT. YOU TREAT EVERYONE BADLY (except those of your own faith) AND THAT IS AGAINST THE RULES. So please, call my bluff, so I can help get you off this board and let everyone relax without your constant harassment of other’s beliefs.
            There are 7 churches at the end Amos. 7 – that points out perfectly that there will be 7 Christian Churches which means a possible 7 different ways of understanding Jesus’ Words. YOURS IS NOT THE ONLY WAY to believe and your ARROGANCE is against his commands too. We are supposed to be HUMBLE NOT Believe we are better than others. Good bye Amos. If that is your real name. You bug me about my cousin, but you are probably not giving your real name or you would not be so insistent against all that I have said to tell you I AM NOT my cousin.
            Good bye

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you must not be hearing your own words as they apply to YOU ………… all you are spouting is more ARMINIANISM ….. and it is REJECTED as UNSCRIPTURAL …………… and you are now adding LAW to GRACE ….. REJECTED …………..

          • Eldrida Urika

            You do know there are many Christian faiths, right?
            Every single thing I have ever posted has been exactly what i told you it was, it is not UNSCRIPTURAL when it is in the bible, or when it is part of a persons faith THAT IS NOT THAT THING YOU KEEP TELLING ME.
            I’d appreciate it if other Christians could back me up this one time so Amos will see I am not the only one who follows Jesus’ commandments like I do. As well as the ones that believe that God is LOVE and the way Amos feels that God has so much hate and does not believe that Jesus died for the whole world’s sin not just a set number of people.
            Jesus told us that someday every knee will bend and every tongue shall confess he is Lord, and I will not believe that MY Jesus decided that all those people will be condemned before the foundation of the world. He wants the WHOLE WORLD to be saved.
            He came to save the sinners, and that according to the scripture he died to save the whole world with the world believing in Jesus and his salvation.

            It is not any other religion than Pentecostal, and I will stand up for Jesus and the Gospel no matter who tries to corrupt it. Including you Amos. I know what the bible says and God hates sin, not people who sin. Scriptures say that people will be turning to Jesus before the end of days. If you wanted to know my religion, why didn’t you ask instead of calling me rude names as accusations? You could have asked, I have no problem standing up for our belief either.
            As I said stop trying to ruin my reputation here. If you don’t like my belief, stop saying things that make me reply to your posts. Simple. I know you know how to do that Amos.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “You do know there are many Christian faiths, right?”

            nope …. there is only one church …….. Christ is the leader of that church ….. its members are spread among all faiths ….. DOCTRINE from scripture is what defines it ….. your doctrine is false and unscriptural as you do not read it with Christ at the center ….. you put YOURSELF and other men at the center ……… is Pope Frankie one of those you hold out as of those “many christian faiths” ………….

            Pope Francis has abolished hell, purgatory, heaven: papal confidant

            By Sandro Magister

            October 27, 2017 — In the important newspaper “la Repubblica” of which he is the founder, Eugenio Scalfari, an undisputed authority of Italian secular thought, last October 9 returned to speaking in the following terms about what he sees as a “revolution” of this pontificate, in comments by Francis that are derived from his frequents conversations with him:

            “Pope Francis has abolished the places where souls were supposed to go after death: hell, purgatory, heaven. The idea he holds is that souls dominated by evil and unrepentant cease to exist, while those that have been redeemed from evil will be taken up into beatitude, contemplating God.”

            Observing immediately afterward:

            “The universal judgment that is in the tradition of the Church therefore becomes devoid of meaning. It remains a simple pretext that has given rise to splendid paintings in the history of art. Nothing other than this.”

            It is seriously doubtful that Pope Francis really wants to get rid of the “last things” in the terms described by Scalfari.

            There is in his preaching, however, something that tends toward a practical overshadowing of the final judgment and of the opposite destinies of blessed and damned.

            On Wednesday, October 11, at the general audience in Saint Peter’s Square, Francis said that such a judgment is not to be feared, because “at the end of our history there is the merciful Jesus,” and therefore “everything will be saved. Everything.”

            In the text distributed to the journalists accredited to the Holy See, this last word, “everything,” was emphasized in boldface.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Do you REALLY hold this out ……..

            At another general audience a few months ago, on Wednesday, August 23, Francis gave for the end of history an image that is entirely and only comforting: that of “an immense tent, where God will welcome all mankind so as to dwell with them definitively.”

            An image that is not his own but is taken from chapter 21 of Revelation, but from which Francis was careful not to cite the following words of Jesus:

            “The victor will inherit these gifts, and I shall be his God, and he will be my son. But as for cowards, the unfaithful, the depraved, murderers, the unchaste, sorcerers, idol-worshipers, and deceivers of every sort, their lot is in the burning pool of fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

            And again, in commenting during the Angelus of Sunday, October 15 on the parable of the wedding banquet (Matthew 22: 1-14) that was read at all the Masses on that day, Francis carefully avoided citing the most unsettling parts.

            Both that in which “the king became indignant, sent his troops, had those murderers killed and their city burned.”

            And that in which, having seen “one man who was not wearing the wedding garment,” the king ordered his servants: “Bind him hand and foot and throw him out into the darkness; there shall be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth.”

            On the previous Sunday, October 8, another parable, that of the murderous vine dressers (Matthew 21:33-43), had undergone the same selective treatment.

            In commenting on the parable during the Angelus, the pope left out what the owner of the vineyard does to those farmers who killed the servants and finally the son: “He will put those wretches to a miserable death.” Much less did he cite the concluding words of Jesus, referring to himself as the “cornerstone”: “He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; but when it falls on any one, it will crush him.”

            Instead, Pope Francis insisted on defending God from the accusation of being vindictive, almost as if wanting to mitigate the excesses of “justice” detected in the parable:

            “It is here that the great news of Christianity is found: a God who, in spite of being disappointed by our mistakes and our sins, does not go back on his word, does not stop, and above all does not avenge himself! Brothers and sisters, God does not avenge himself! God loves, he does not avenge himself, he waits for us to forgive us, to embrace us.”

            In the homily for the feast of Pentecost, last June 4, Francis argued, as he often does, against “those who judge.” And in citing the words of the risen Jesus to the apostles and implicitly to their successors in the Church (John 20:22-23), he intentionally cut them off halfway through:

            “Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive, they will be forgiven.”

            Omitting the following:

            “Those you do not forgive, they will not be forgiven.”

            And the fact that the truncation was deliberate is proven by its repititon. Because Francis had made the exact same deletion of the words of Jesus on the previous April 23, at the Regina Coeli of the first Sunday after Easter.

            Last May 12 as well, while visiting Fatima, Francis showed that he wanted to set Jesus free from his reputation as an inflexible judge at the end of time. And to do this he warned against the following false image of Mary:

            “A Mary of our own making: one who restrains the arm of a vengeful God; one sweeter than Jesus the ruthless judge.”

            It must be added that the liberty with which Pope Francis cuts and stitches up the words of Sacred Scripture does not concern only the universal judgment. Deafening, for example, is the silence in which he has always shrouded Jesus’ condemnation of adultery (Matthew 19:2-11 and parallel passages).

            In a surprising coincidence, this condemnation was contained in the Gospel passage that was read in all the churches of the world precisely on the Sunday of the beginning of the second session of the synod of bishops on the family, October 4, 2015. But neither in the homily nor at the Angelus on that day did Pope Francis make the slightest reference to it.

            Nor did he make any reference to it at the Angelus of Sunday February 12, 2017, when that condemnation was once again read in all the churches.

            Not only that. The words of Jesus against adultery also do not appear in the two hundred pages of the post-synodal exhortation “Amoris Laetitia.”

            Just as no appearance is made in it by the terrible words of condemnation of homosexuality written by the apostle Paul in the first chapter of the Letter to the Romans.

            A first chapter that was also read – another coincidence – at the weekday Masses of the second week of the synod of 2015. To tell the truth, those words are not included in the missal. But in any case, neither the pope nor anyone else ever cited them while discussions were being held at the synod about changing the paradigms of judgment on homosexuality:

            “Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper. They are filled with every form of wickedness, evil, greed, and malice; full of envy, murder, rivalry, treachery, and spite. They are gossips and scandalmongers and they hate God. They are insolent, haughty, boastful, ingenious in their wickedness, and rebellious toward their parents. They are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know the just decree of God that all who practice such things deserve death, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them” (Romani 1, 26-32).

            Moreover, at times Pope Francis even takes the liberty of rewriting the words of Sacred Scripture as he sees fit.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Modern “Christians” A Far Greater Threat To The Gospel Of Jesus Than Radical Islam Is, Says Noted Theologian

            What’s the biggest threat to Christianity? According to some theologians, it appears to come from inside Christendom itself. Speaking during a Tuesday night panel discussion about the Reformation that was hosted by Ligonier Ministries, at least one theologian cited the Christian church “in this century” as the faith’s biggest impediment. “That’s a greater threat than Islam. Christendom. A far greater threat to Christianity than Islam is,” Sinclair Ferguson, a teaching fellow with Ligonier Ministries and a professor at Reformed Theological Seminary, said. “Islam can never destroy the gospel, but Christendom can easily destroy the gospel and is destroying the gospel.” And he wasn’t done there, according to The Christian Post. “The Church is the greatest threat to real Christianity in the world,” he said. “God help us.”

            better check your DOCTRINE …………

          • Eldrida Urika

            I disagree with this because I have strong enough FAITH to withstand anything that comes to me. I won’t give up on God and I know he won’t give up on me. what do I have to fear when I have the Lord on my side?
            The only people who have to fear Islam are the ones who do not have faith that God will take care of them.
            They can try to take God’s Word away but anyone who is Christian knows that God’s Word will remain forever, so why should we fear Islam taking over. Jesus will take care of the ones that try to remove Christianity, and we need to trust Him to do that and not fear. He told us what to expect and he promised he would come for us. Some of us will die I expect, and some will give in and convert and lose their salvation of God. But those that remain faithful will be the ones that Jesus will save.
            You and your post is not a concern to anyone who trusts and is faithful to God. If you are worried about this, then you need to strengthen your faith and trust in God. That is what we have to hang onto.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “I disagree with this because ”

            because you are the danger inside the church ….. or you pretend to be inside the church …….

          • Eldrida Urika

            why would I need to listen to a debate about something I already know because it is IN the scriptures Amos? I’ve never met anyone so determined to say they take the scriptures so literally, but look to others to understand them instead of asking God for understanding. You do not go to God to find out what God wanted you to be when he created you. God had plans for you and you are ignoring them and not trying to make a closer relationship by knowing his word YOURSELF and being able to support our beliefs. We can’t listen to others as much as we do God. Men are not omnipotent and can’t give each other understanding of our God’s desires beyond what is IN the scriptures without having that relationship with God.
            You just believe differently but you can’t seem to give me scriptures to support your view and I have given the scriptures that support my view.
            Can you not support your belief that we need to do nothing to receive salvation except believe and we can act whatever way we want to, and that we have no fear of losing that salvation.
            That is what you believe isn’t it Amos?
            That’s what you told my cousin when she asked you: I read along while you two were posting back and forth so I do remember some of it just not all. So Do I remember correctly Amos? Is that what you believe? If it is, please show me any scriptures that support that belief. I may not listen to videos but I’m always willing to hear scripture interpretation and enjoy discussing it.

            That is not how my church believes so I would be interested in seeing your scripture so I can speak to others about the view.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            gee …. maybe because you DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING ……. and your reluctance to LISTEN is evidence that you not only do not listen to others who have heard from the Holy Spirit ….. and most likely YOU HAVE NOT EITHER …….. and you rely on your own understanding ….. and just MAYBE ….. this is the HOLY SPIRIT telling you you to LISTEN to Him …………… but if your “faith is so strong” …. that you do not have any fear of deception in the church …… then again ….. it is further evidence that that statement is A LIE ….. and you are a LIAR …………..

          • Eldrida Urika

            When did i ever say that I know everything. Amos . You are the one. Who insists I am wrong, while I just point out the scripture information and tell you to confirm it so you can see it for yourself.
            I have told you that I a very strong faith, and you criticize me anyway. I have never questioned your faith , I have only tried to discuss the differences of our Faith’s. Every time I tell you about my belief and identify the scripture ,you get all upset because you don’t know the scriptures and that troubles you.
            You need to learn to live by the Fruits of the Spirit and live with them in you life.
            Amos, you show none of the Fruits except Faith.
            You miss the others when you are here. I can not see any Fruits of the Spirit that you exhibit. “Love, Joy, Peace, Long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, meekness, or temperance. Those attributes are how every Christian; so we will know each other by seeing those things in others .
            I’ve never accused you of not being Christian because I can see your faith in you belief is strong. All I do is offer you more of the scriptures for you to edify yourself. By refusing to look at the scriptures you are are rejecting God’s Word. It’s like you are afraid to understand something that might make you question you own beliefs, when scriptures should make you confirm your beliefs, and give support to your beliefs. You need to learn ALL scripture not just some.
            Your criticism of my not looking at videos on YouTube was unnecessary as I did my research a while back on reputable sites to be able to read rather than listen. I don’t trust the words of men unless the align with the Word of God. That site has a lot of bogus videos and prefer the Bible to all other sources. I know that I will never know all of the Bible but I am told in the scriptures to read it often to learn it’s lessons.
            Amos. By acting as if you hate me – a sister of faith – according to 1John I:14-15 you are a murderer. I am now going to suggest that you look at that scriptures so you know why it says you are a murderer according to what John taught.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            if you are not going to listen to other people who have heard from the Holy Spirit ….. then the question demands to be asked ….. why should we believe YOU are hearing from the Holy Spirit when you do not want to listen to the Holy Spirit through them …… here is a clue …… WE DO NOT …………..

          • Eldrida Urika

            “heard” the Holy Spirit?
            I don’t hear the Holy Spirit,it doesn’t need me to do anything and has guided me to do what He wants me to do.
            I speak to Jesus often and I also read the scriptures.
            YOU do not have a clue about having the Holy Spirit dwelling within us, or you would not have said that they have heard the Spirit but that the spirit within them had told them.
            Do you seriously think that you can rely on a youtube video for truth when any random person can say anything they want on that channel and use any names they want to use as credentials. Speaking of the Holy Spirit like that is not normal nor for those who have the Spirit indwelling to speak out in public either.
            Amos, you do not know what I have done to open my eyes to things about Jesus. You have no idea what I’ve read, what I’ve been taught, You don’t even have the right to say that My teacher was bad but yours is the only one with the truth?
            You do not know most of the gospel scriptures. You can’t support your belief with scriptures. The way you go against Jesus’ commands makes me question your beliefs in the first place. You do not show any attitudes of a Christian except you like to demean and humiliate people who are sinners that you can find out exactly what their sins are. That you enjoy except that is against Jesus’ words too. So why exactly should I, or anyone else for that matter, believe that your belief is a Christian one at all. At least my posts are about Jesus’ Word while yours are about objecting to my beliefs.
            We are supposed to be able to support our beliefs to others – like unbelievers – and be able to win against them.
            But, you know, that takes knowing the scriptures and a faith based on the scriptures. So I guess you do not believe in your belief enough to give scriptures to show us why you have the belief you have.
            So what are the scriptures that support your belief Amos? Your belief that all you have to do to be saved is just believe, repent, pray , worship and praise. I’m not missing anything am I?

            I’d appreciate knowing your scriptures. you might have given them to my cousin, but I don’t recall the scriptures you used.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “I don’t hear the Holy Spirit”

            that explains everything ………. you do not listen ……….. “My Sheep HEAR MY VOICE” …. the Holy Spirit is CHRISTS and the FATHERS Spirit …… and you do not hear it …… and you want us to take you seriously ……. NOPE ………….

          • Eldrida Urika

            Show scriptures to support that we all only ‘hear’ the Holy Spirit? Because it can touch people in different ways which you would know from scriptures.
            Ok so does hearing God say my name two times mean I heard the Holy Spirit.

            Being led to do the various things I have done for The Holy Spirit did not require hearing it as it guided me without words, by feelings that it gives the ones that have it, that is too hard to explain to someone who does not feel it themselves. Ask anyone who truly has the Holy Spirit and they will tell you the same thing. It feels like nothing that I had felt before, or since other than the Holy Spirit itself.

            Instead of listening to strangers who tell you their opinions and a possible story to go with it is just wrong Amos.

            If anyone wants to understand what the Holy Spirit does when it indwells within us, we can only explain some of it in our earthly words, so no one can truly explain the relationship we have with God once we are baptized with the second baptism of Air and Fire.
            I’m going to go to a different reply to let you focus on the words that are in it.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            i have just given you the scriptures of the Comforter (Holy Spirit) ……

          • Eldrida Urika

            One of them.

          • Eldrida Urika

            Amos,
            Do you know the scriptures about the Good Samaritan? What lesson is taught in that scripture Amos?

            When Jesus tells us to “Keep my commands”, what commands do you believe he is talking about for us to do?

            Do you accept that our Salvation can be lost as it says in the scriptures?

            The Scriptures about the men who did not show compassion or concern about the needy in the streets where Jesus ends up telling them to go to face their punishments. Why did the Bible tell the story about that unless it was an example of the way we could lose our salvation. It proved that we are able to lose our salvation just by the story of the event after the end days. Those men thought

            So tell me how you believe in these things directly from the bible? There is nothing in my post to attack. and no reason to demean me when questions are how we learn.
            So please answer those things and lets have a nice discussion instead of you throwing rocks at me.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            is the Holy Spirit a person OR NOT ……….. do you deny the TRINITY ….. that God is three persons ………….

          • Eldrida Urika

            A spirit is not a person any more than God is a person. All 3 of the God’s head are spirits now.

            Have you ever noticed how you still have not given any scriptures that prove your belief about not having to do anything to be guaranteed Salvation.

            You keep asking me questions as if trying to find the dirt on me and you won’t be able to because I am a Christian and God’s child and nothing will ever change that. It is not possible to make me not believe in a God that has proven himself to me on more than one occasions. If you have not seen proof of his existence in your life, then you do not believe strongly enough.

            I’ve had enough of your prevarication about your faith when I have been quite open and honest with you about my own. I’d like some scriptures please?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            okay … SO DENIAL of the TRINITY and DENIAL of the HOLY SPIRIT ………. GOT IT ….. in fact a DENIAL OF GOD as a PERSON ……….. we are SOOOOO DONE ……….

          • Eldrida Urika

            EXCUSE Me?Denial? What are you talking about? Do you not understand that when Jesus died he was a spirit not a human? He was a human while he was on earth but he became a spirit when he died or he would not have been able to conquer death. A HUMAN cannot be human after it dies, it is a spirit.
            YOU are not a Christian at all. You have not answered any questions about your faith with scriptures or even words to explain it. You can’t support your supposed belief with scriptures, you are a hypocrite just like the scribes and the Pharisee. I can support my belief in every way in the scriptures. You obviously can’t because I have asked you repeatedly to show me scriptures to prove that we do not need to do
            anything to be saved beyond accepting Jesus. Until you do that, I have no reason to defend myself against a Heretic like you.

          • Eldrida Urika

            I asked you a question and you totally ignored it again. I answered this on the last post. Answer my questions or I won’t answer to a hypocrite. No answers mean you do not know, and you try to distract from it by talking about something totally different from my question. You already asked this exact question 3 times. I will not waste my time answering it 3 times because you can’t support your own beliefs.
            you try to tell others I am teaching a fraudulent view of Christ and you can’t even support your own belief. You are the heretic not I. You can’t even support your belief to another Christian so why should I believe that your teaching others isn’t to lead them astray from the scriptures.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            when i ask a direct question i expect a direct answer ….. i do not need a diatribe or a novel to be written ….. which is another reason why much of your screed is IGNORED ……….

          • Eldrida Urika

            Poor baby is it too difficult for you to read that many words all at once? Give me a break Amos, you just use your free will to choose to ignore it, and for no other reason than it might make you question your belief by proving it in scripture as wrong.
            It’s ok, there are others who do read it and they learn about the Truth in the Bible as written instead of the way you believe without support of it being the Truth.
            You are not a Christian as you cannot support your belief. You show none of the Fruits of the Spirits except faith which seems to be based on only a small amount of scripture while ignoring all the lessons in the NT that we are supposed to learn to be Christians the way Jesus wants us to be.
            You teach a mortal man’s doctrine instead the Word of God, without scriptures to support anything you say with accuracy. You do not show the signs that identify you as a Christian as the only thing you show is faith in man’s doctrine, and show nothing in your behavior is even remotely like a Christian. So how is it that I who stick to the bible scriptures who is a heretic when it is you who is leading others astray not I. It is by not using the scriptures alone that belies that you are leading people astray. Plus using scriptures that are not about the specified topics is also proof that you are not a Christian. You show no knowledge of the Gospel which is the one thing we are supposed to know from Matthew to Revelation. We are supposed to know every scripture in the Bible to be able to refer to it at any time. I am new enough that I can remember what the scriptures say, but I often have to find the Book Chapter and verse that is aligned with God’s Word before I use that scripture in any way.
            You need the new teacher that you keep insisting I get, because you are not being taught the Whole Word of God properly. My teacher is very thorough and teaches ONLY the Word of God. I have no need for a new teacher as mine is a man ordained by God himself. I don’t know who your leader is, but they are not a man of God if they don’t know how to apply biblical scriptures to our lives today. They are not a man of God is they say to ignore something that Jesus himself told us to do. If they do not encourage you to read the bible from cover to cover and learn the scriptures and be able to refer to them at anytime. They are not a man of God.
            So you go ahead and call ME a heretic and all the other nasty things you say to make people think I am not talking the bible itself but of my own words, when I do.
            It won’t bother me, as I will just continue to list all the ways you do not show that you are an actual Christian, which makes YOU the heretic, not myself. Oh and I do not need to use childish names when I tell you that you need to look further in the scriptures and realize the limitations that your faith has made for you so that you will not be hearing the Word of God completely, but just the parts that a human being has decided is the right part, and never the twain shall meet beyond that belief and the way the bible tells us.
            I could be just as childish as you are and INSIST that you are wrong and you are evil and a Liar, but it is not necessary because I have God’s Word to back up what I say, and you do not.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ignored ………..

          • Eldrida Urika

            then why is it when I ask a direct question you ignore my question instead of giving me a direct answer? does that only go for you or do you allow others to ask you questions ONLY. Because I do not get answers at all for any of my direct questions. You just can’t produce the scriptures I ask for because they do not exist. So you attack me to bring the attention on to me, instead of admitting there are no such scriptures. That is a direct admission that you are not able to defend your own religion.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you are so far outside of orthodoxy there just is no point to any further conversation ……….. you are a ball of confusion ….. if you have one question at a time i will attempt to answer it ……. but i am not going to try to filter through your screed to find it …………

          • Eldrida Urika

            I did ask you a direct question I haven’t seen an answer to it yet. The whole post was just that question so you could not complain of all the rest of my post. Look for it and answer it.

          • Eldrida Urika

            Just because I have a different religion than yours does not make “it far outside orthodoxy”.
            Anyone who uses scripture and can support what they say is God’s Word is not a ball of confusion to anyone else but you.
            Do you ever wonder why your friends do nothing to support your words even when you can’t?
            Without scriptures anything is not about God’s Word. If you can’t understand that, again, it is because you are not a Christian.
            I don’t rudely tell you that I don’t believe in your belief, but I do tell you that you need to learn the gospel to understand the TRUTH or you are not truly trying to be what God created you to be..
            You sit there and try to say my belief supported completely by scriptures IN CONTEXT are not true, but won’t give any proof that stands up to scrutiny as to why it is wrong, and you don’t give me scriptures to prove me wrong either.
            Your assumption that the Fruit of the Spirits was written to the Galatians and it is ONLY for the Galatians of that time was ridiculous. The whole bible is for us to use not just a few parts. Every word in the Gospel is written for all followers of Christ. INCLUDING the letters that were written.
            I think you must have missed a lot of lessons that Christ taught us and his apostles because you have no knowledge of them. Another fail for a Christian.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “Just because I have a different religion than yours does not make “it far outside orthodoxy”. ”

            yes it does ………..

          • Eldrida Urika

            Amos why do you think there are 7 churches mentioned in Revelation? Do you think the other 6 are just dummy churches for show?
            I don’t even say that kind of thing to you. I tell you you need to read the gospel, I don’t demean you about how I believe is right and how you believe is wrong, all I do is ask you to look at the gospel and see what it says about doing Christ’s commands.
            I guess I could rebuke you as a Devil’s tool working to corrupt the Word of God.
            Or just keep telling you all sorts of nasty things about you and your religion, but I am a Christian and Christians do not behave like you have. Your fruit is of an evil tree, not a good tree. Because you are not supposed to put a stumbling block in front of any believer who preaches the Gospel.

            Keep proving that you are not a Christian Amos. Keep showing that your fruit is not from a good tree. Because that is all you are doing by being so utterly rude to me and how I believe. According to Jesus we are not supposed to stop someone who is teaching the bible to others.
            Luke 9
            49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
            50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

            You keep proving to me that you are not knowledgeable about the Gospel.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ONE QUESTION …. we just went over this ……….. IGNORED …………..

          • Eldrida Urika

            With Pride he says that HIS Belief is Better than mine and says that mine is so wrong it is REALLY bad.
            Humbly I say in reply: Jesus told us that there would be people who spread the word who are not of God’s Children, but if they were for us, to leave them alone to do God’s Work. I do God’s Work and spread the Gospel, do you

            I use the scriptures to point out how this belief is not repeated in the NT and is actually said in a different way so that tells me that I am doing God’s Work. I never vary from what the Bible says is God’s Word. I explain it as simply as possible to help others who may not know the scriptures that say the positive things instead of the negative.
            I keep telling you that your belief is missing many of the scriptures in the Gospel that are necessary to do to be a Christian. You won’t look to confirm what I say so you are either a fraud Christian, or you just do not know the scriptures well enough to support it with God’s Word.
            Stop saying I am wrong and just say you disagree and do not want to discuss it. I can’t be wrong when I use the scriptures that state what I am saying. I’ve given you scriptures that are proof of what I say and you don’t bother with them.
            You are not acting like a Christian at all. No love. No Joy. No peace. no gentleness or goodness from your behavior alone.
            How can you say you are a Christian without loving the Lord enough to do his commands?
            ‘If you love me, you will do my commandments”
            So since you do not believe that obeying his commandments is necessary contrary to what Jesus said himself, But you still expect to be saved without doing what his commands say. SMH
            You can’t be saved if you refuse to obey Jesus’ commands. Period. No extra chances on the day of Judgement and no excuse that will satisfy Jesus about your disobedience. You have no excuse because you are listening to someone without confirming that it aligns with All of God’s Word. No excuse for being plainly told to look at the scriptures and refusing to take the chance that either my cousin or I might be right.
            You continually try to tell the people on this board that i am evil, or that I am a liar, and that I use scriptures incorrectly (I don’t) but I say nothing about you other than you need to read the gospel so you will have your eyes opened by them.
            I do not focus on your misunderstandings without giving you the Truth in the scriptures that are God’s Word.
            Would you like to invite the other posters to say which of us behaves like the bible says a Christian should act, or are you afraid that others will not see you as the Christian you say you are.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            False teachers are ignored ……….

          • Eldrida Urika

            Gee, I guess that’s another thing. It is only the Word that can either prove or disprove what is said about the Word of God. I can support how I believe with scriptures. I have disproved what your scripture says by confusing what it means with other scriptures of the same issue. I have given you multiple scriptures to prove God’s Word and you start coming back with Youtube videos? You do know that watching that is addictive and you will find yourself spending more and more time watching and listening to what the World thinks instead of what God’s Word says about this world. I’d like to have another supporting scripture to your belief as just one is not a justified belief. To support your belief you must have other scriptures that you know and believe in, don’t you?
            I can support every thing about my belief on several scriptures each, but you get upset when I point out that there is more to the scriptures than meet the eyes.

            Don’t get upset and blabber Amos speak out about your faith in Jesus and How others are to believe if you honestly in your heart believe that it is the way God wants us to view the words in His Bible, then you should be able to provide more than one scripture about it.

          • Eldrida Urika

            You do realize that if you disobey God’s Word
            willfully you are showing Jesus that you do not love him by not keeping
            his commandments – that is a reason to lose that salvation you think is
            not able to be lost. You have to accept it Amos or it is your choice to
            ignore Jesus’ Words? which is death not life.

            Rudeness; not a Christian attitude.
            Does not know the scriptures of the Gospel; not a Christian attitude
            Does
            not know of, or reflect any of the Fruits of the Spirit which is how a
            Christian is to be recognized by other Christians; not a Christian
            attitude
            Trying to say that one belief is the right one and the other is wrong? NOT a Christian attitude.
            Being arrogant and acting like you are a better person because you are saved; PRIDE A SIN

            1 Corinthians 13:13

            And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
            You do not show charity towards anyone except your brethren of the same faith.
            Your pride alone is so blatant it stands out from anything you say about your belief as if you have some inside news that no one else has who has read the Bible?
            Humble yourself in the sight of the Lord and stop thinking of yourself so high and mighty. You do not have any authority that gives you the right to criticize my ministry, and there is no where that tells you that the way I minister is against God’s Word because all I do is use the scriptures and show others because you won’t bother with the proof that my belief aligns with the Word of the Lord. You should not just accept one scripture as ‘this’ without reading the other scriptures about the same topic and decide the other scriptures are wrong.
            you are going directly against God’s Word by each and every post you have posted within this discussion. You demean my scriptures. You demean my belief. And you honestly believe that even though you act in direct disobedience to what Jesus told us, that you will still be saved as if you never sinned by acting like this towards me. You show so little respect why don’t you spit me out of your mouth like you do God’s Word.
            When you cannot support your belief against the scriptures you bring up another issue or divert from answering in any way that means you do not have to answer the point I made. You don’t know the scriptures well enough to be able to make the stand you need to for others to believe in what your belief is.
            You are not a Christian according to the Bible and how it describes what a Christian should appear in behavior and how we are showing charity always no matter how we feel about another person. You need to reboot and find the Truth again for yourself Amos.
            I don’t ever see you speaking of the Gospel as the basis for your belief and it is supposed to be all of the NT that is to makes us all we were created to be.
            You must change how you are looking at the scriptures before the end. If not at least look at them and understand that Jesus spoke things that were commands and wants us to obey. He said it over and over to love him is to do his commandments.
            Amos, it is our choice to follow Jesus and it our choice whether we have a close relationship or one that is based on only a few things without the fervor needed to truly have a closer relationship with God. A desire to fully obey what Jesus commanded us and actually aligning your life as closely as possible to be a reflection of the man that walked the earth so long ago and by His Sacrifice we are saved: for he wants to save the whole world.
            Anyone who does not do his commandments is not going to be saved Amos. THINK ABOUT IT.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            do you realize you are a FALSE TEACHER ………….. if i were you i would concentrate on that ……….

          • Eldrida Urika

            Stop calling me that. you are going against the rules of the board by being like that towards me.

          • Eldrida Urika

            I will no longer provide help with understanding for you as you reject it. The scriptures I give you will support what I need to say so it will be up to you to have understanding of those scriptures since you won’t accept the understanding I get from them.

            If you want to reply, do it in scriptures as I do not listen to you, I listen to God’s Word. You do not show yourself as a Christian so I need the word of God not a non-Christian to show me the things you think are in the Bible.

            Scriptures are for teaching ALL of us lessons not just the Elect.

            2Timothy 3
            16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
            17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

            About the way you treat me a sister in faith? the scriptures say that is not the way to treat someone who is a Believer in Christ or Brethren.

            1 Peter 2:17
            17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

            Romans 12:10
            10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you provide error … PLEASE keep it to yourself and quit deceiving people …………

          • Eldrida Urika

            Did you really just read that one part of a statement and base your whole comment on those 6 words without continuing to find out more about why I don’t hear it the way others do. And how others have the Holy Spirit and do not experience the same thing because it is an individual experience for each of us, not the same for everyone.
            The spirit is what we speak through to have direct access to the Father without Jesus as our mediator. We are speaking to God through His own spirit and it will help us to understand what God says to us. It murmurs to God when we can’t find the words ourselves.
            This scripture is about what the Spirit tells us as individuals about God’s Word. He does not carry his own message but that of the father’s words. When it says ‘speaks’ it is not necessarily audible to anyone but our own minds, almost like a thought of our own if we did not feel the spirit all the time.
            People who have the spirit don’t usually try to convince the world that they have it either.
            Some people in our church have it, but I can’t tell you each person who has it or doesn’t unless there is a reason to acknowledge it to others once it has been received.
            I’d find it hard to believe in the first place without evidence that is irrefutable that the person has the Holy Spirit at all, and He would also have to speak in an obvious way or it is a fraud as well.
            You make me laugh every time you accuse me of not being a Christian because there is not one poster here that can say that I do not act like a Christian, or that I don’t make sure my words are not harmful or untrue. Or that the scriptures I give do align with God’s Word. You and your friends with the same religion are the only ones that would down vote me about anything.
            The only reason you down vote is because it hides your friends and your names.
            And when your votes consist of one Lady Checkmate and no one else it reflects a few truths about you too.

          • Eldrida Urika

            I hate to tell you this Amos it did not use the word hear at all in that scriptures. The Holy Spirit doesn’t speak to us like we speak to each other. It is more of a guide than a voice, just as your scriptures show. We do not hear the spirit like we hear each others voices.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ignored …………. honestly …. we have nothing else to say to each other …..

          • Eldrida Urika

            ONLY Because you can’t support your belief. That’s all I ask is for you to show me scriptures that prove your belief. That’s all. Where are the scriptures Amos and why should I believe in what you believe in (or anyone who is reading our posts) without those scriptures?
            You are afraid that I will be able to show you that what you have been taught is false, so now you are going to say that we have nothing to say.

          • Eldrida Urika

            Direct question: what scriptures support your belief that our salvation is guaranteed, and we need do absolutely nothing in order for us to be saved.
            You said you answer direct questions. Show me you did not lie.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “what scriptures support your belief that our salvation is guaranteed, and we need do absolutely nothing in order for us to be saved”

            The Elect, all of those saved are the Elect, saved BY GRACE, alone, by no other thing but GRACE, are Predestined to be saved, before the foundation of the world, and He will in no wise, WILL NOT EVER, cast them out ………….

            Ephesians
            1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him BEFORE the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
            1:5 Having Predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
            1:6 To the praise of the glory of HIS GRACE, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

            2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by GRACE ye are saved;)
            2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
            2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
            2:8 For by GRACE are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
            2:9 NOT of works, LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST.

            ……. “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in NO WISE cast out.” “NEITHER shall ANY MAN pluck them out of my hand.” ” and NO MAN is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.” ….. and that includes the ones saved …… NO MAN ……

            John
            10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
            10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
            10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
            10:30 I and my Father are one.
            6:31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
            6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
            6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
            6:34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
            6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
            6:36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
            6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
            6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

          • Eldrida Urika

            Here are the scriptures that tell us that we are able to lose our salvation..

            It is made clear that all are able to lose their salvation. If Peter the Apostle can say he can lose his Salvation then anyone is able to lose it. (scripture is below)

            1 Corinthians 15:1-2
            1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
            2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

            2 Peter 2:20-22
            20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
            21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

            Even Peter was concerned about losing his Salvation
            1 Corinthians 9:27
            27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have
            preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

            Hebrews 6
            4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
            5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
            6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            scripture does not contradict itself ….. if God the Father and the Son say they they will not throw them out nor can any man be plucked out ….. then what you are saying is making God a liar ….. really ….. that is where you want to go …… that is the MISUSE of scripture you want to go with ………. CALLING GOD A LIAR …………..

            WHAT DOES IT SAY right there in the BEGINNING of the passage in Hebrews YOU JUST QUOTED ……

            “For it is IMPOSSIBLE for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost ……….”

            wake up ….. IT IS NOT POSSIBLE ….. and ….. YOU JUST READ IT AND TOLD ME ….. and GOD CONFIRMS IT IS THE PASSAGES I JUST GAVE YOU ………….

            but you are not outside of orthodoxy …… WOW ………………

            and it even say “””””IF”””””” THEY FALL AWAY ….. “””””IF””””” THEY ARE IN GOD AND CHRISTS HAND ….. IF THEY ARE TRULY SAVED …… IT IS NOT POSSIBLE ……. and the only way for that to happen ….. IS IF THEY WERE NEVER SAVED TO BEGIN WITH …………..

            but you want to CONTRADICT what the scriptures have laid out ………… scripture DOES NOT CONTRADICT ITSELF ……………. GOD DOES NOT CONTRADICT HIMSELF …………

          • Eldrida Urika

            Why does Peter fear losing HIS Salvation if there is no way to lose it?

            1 Corinthians 9:27
            27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have
            preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Peter did not fear losing His salvation ….. he believed in ELECTION ….. and PREDESTINATION …… and if he ever was going to lose it …. it would have been when he DENIED CHRIST at His trial …… THREE TIMES OVER TWO HOURS ……….

            Luke 22
            “And Peter remembered the saying of the Lord, how he had said to him, “Before the rooster crows today, you will deny me three times.” And he went out and wept bitterly.”

            BUT GUESS WHAT …… He is in heaven ……….. and YOU ARE A FALSE TEACHER ….. and BTW ……. CORINTHIANS WAS WRITTEN BY ……….. PAUL …….. NOT Peter ……..

          • Eldrida Urika

            Guess what? I have already showed you that he feared he would make a mistake and had been believing in vain for not doing God’s Will. It was after the crucifixion and after the part about the rooster crowing.
            Funny it is you who is denying the Lord’s Word is Truth by the fact that you will not even look at further examples of God’s Will as proof. You do not show you trust Jesus by attacking me like you do. It did not say he was going to lose it, it said he did not want to believe in vain because he did not do the things Jesus commanded us to do.

            Oh EXCUSE ME! I made an honest mistake about who wrote something boo hoo. You obviously knew that I made a mistake, so it did not affect your ability to read it.

            It appears that it is you who is denying God’s Word as it is written and you try to say that everything that is in the gospel was worthless because you do not have to do any of it and Jesus will be ok with the direct disobedience of his commands and let you go to heaven.
            Sorry. He said those who do not his commands do not love him and do not live in the light.
            That includes every single believer Amos Not just a cherry picking of what you believe are the Elect, and giving them salvation without becoming the person that will go to heaven first as a spirit. If you are not doing God’s will, you are calling God a liar when he tells us that if we love him, we will do his commands. So YOU are teaching the wrong thing to others here.
            You have said that God’s Word lies to everyone when it says Jesus told us to do his commands.
            You have not even confirmed what God’s Word said in the first place by not reading and knowing what is in the NT.

            MY LIFE IS ALL ABOUT JESUS. There is nothing in my life that does not have a connection to my Lord and Savior. I try to exhibit all the ways that Jesus showed us to, and I harm no one by word or deed. I believe that he is God’s Son who came to earth to soothe God’s Wrath, and to allow himself to be cruelly crucified and die for our sins to be given the grace to be forgiven without the need of any other sacrifice required for the grace for sins repented for.
            I could never deny God when he has shown me his presence in my life over and over again.
            So NOPE, not me, I do not deny Christ. I magnify his name and worship and praise him continually. I do not have worries or any other trial than those that are to help me learn a lesson. I am aware that all trials are to teach us something and I know that if we learn that lesson it will end the trial. I also know that the escape that God provides in every trial for us to stop the trial is to pray to God for help as the burden is too heavy. God will change how you learn the lesson, but you still have to learn it.
            I have given my life to the Lord, and I cannot deny the Gospel either. Jesus commanded us to spread the Gospel and that is what I do. And your attacking my reputation is not going to change that fact. Jesus is my guide to everything in my life that happens. How can I be afraid of your persecution Amos, when I have God on my side? I have to fear no man as God is my protector and the one who provides for me (and everyone who believes) and I have no need for the world as I am truly not a part of this world but only a part of Jesus.
            It’s too bad you don’t realize that you are a tool for satan by denying God’s Word to the world by telling us that we do not have to follow Jesus’ commands to be saved. It is a lie of the Devil, not me. I didn’t tell you to go against God’s Word or to deny that he gave us commands and told us specifically to DO those commands. I tried to encourage you to look in the scriptures to find the real truth for yourself. But without accepting Jesus’ commands, you must realize it is not acceptable to disobey the Word of God, right? And because you have had the truth pointed out to you if you choose not to look into them and read what God said all through the Gospel to find those commands, you are not considered a believer in Jesus as without his commands followed you lie about what Jesus told us all in the scriptures.
            Now all I ask you to do is to read the gospel and look for those commands from Jesus and tell yourself it is necessary to believe in doing the commands from God. If you choose not to obey, you are choosing not to believe in God’s Word and you are calling Jesus a liar.
            I laugh when you try and tell others that I am a liar. My ability to address questions from someone who does not understand something has always been commented on by others. If you cannot see the gift, God knows and is using me as someone who is spreading the gospel and who is never offended by anything in the Word of God, but has often been offended in the world that is not my home. I believed Christians were better than others at being good and kind to everyone, until I met you Amos. Until I realized that you really are not a Christian just by the fruits you do not show, and the lack of knowledge of the scriptures is also a sign of a tool of the devil to confuse others so their salvation is lost just as your will be if you ignore the warnings that are in the Gospel scriptures. So just because you will not listen up to this point, you will keep disobeying God’s Word, and you are at the verge of losing your salvation for calling Jesus a liar about his commands. You are saying it is not necessary to do anything for our salvation, but Jesus is telling us to obey his commands in contrast to your belief. As it is well spoken in the scriptures that we are to do his commands and you choose not to. Jesus said you will lose that salvation because you disobeyed his command.
            We can’t pick and choose what commands to follow and what commands to ignore. We have to try to keep ALL of them, with prayer and Thanksgiving to the Lord in every way.
            Disobeying a God and King’s direct order is pretty well considered to end in death every time.
            Think about this Amos. Give yourself a chance to save yourself.

          • Eldrida Urika

            You are wrong and I have had it flagged as inappropriate for your accusations that are unfounded in truth as I do use the scriptures to prove anything I say, but you are not able to.
            I’m not kidding around here Amos. I want this treatment to stop or I will go to the trouble of going to discuss to question why you have not been banned for going against the board rules.
            Believe what you want to believe Amos. It is not of my concern any longer as I have been very thorough in telling you about the scriptures that tell us to obey or lose our salvation.

            I’ll believe and PREACH how I believe whether you try to lie and say I am not following God’s Word by proving that i can support each thing with scriptures that you fail to provide for proof of your belief, or even proof that I am wrong. Not once have to been able to show the scriptures that tell you that my whole belief is based on a lie while i use God’s Word in all things without putting personal opinion over what the scriptures say. I am pretty sure that they will believe someone who shows they are Christian rather than someone who acts like a child with his attacks. I know that the majority of Christians would agree that your behavior is not the way a Christian should behave, and that because you cannot give more than one scripture that prove your belief against the 3 I gave that proves you wrong. You can’t support your belief so why would someone else agree that it is the right belief.

            Another FAIL Amos. those fails of yours are piling up.

          • Eldrida Urika

            Guess what he was telling the others to be careful because if we are not careful we can miss a sin that we had to repent for and never acknowledged.
            Lets just look at the lesson he is teaching with the words he uses. It is important that you acknowledge that the lesson that was taught was about the chance of losing your salvation.
            Not once did I try to say that Peter lost his salvation. Do not put words that are obviously not my own in your post as if I had said them. I know that Peter is in heaven but it was because he followed the commands of the Lord very closely so he couldn’t lose his Salvation, just as we all need to regularly look to see if there are sins not being repented for.
            Those are your words not mine about whether he was saved because I never even implied that he had lost it.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Peter did not fear losing His salvation ….. he believed in ELECTION ….. and PREDESTINATION …… and if he ever was going to lose it …. it would have been when he DENIED CHRIST at His trial …… THREE TIMES OVER TWO HOURS ……….
            Luke 22
            “And Peter remembered the saying of the Lord, how he had said to him, “Before the rooster crows today, you will deny me three times.” And he went out and wept bitterly.”
            BUT GUESS WHAT …… He is in heaven ……….. and YOU ARE A FALSE TEACHER ….. and BTW ……. CORINTHIANS WAS WRITTEN BY ……….. PAUL …….. NOT Peter ……..

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            your misuse of that passage has not one thing to do with losing salvation …… it does not even mention salvation ….. you are now in the area of lying about scripture …………. that will not end well for you ……….

          • Eldrida Urika

            I don’t understand how you can miss something in scriptures spelled out
            to us like “DO MY COMMANDS” and ignore them as if they are optional.
            How can you ignore God’s Word Amos? How do you justify disobeying God’s Word because you are not innocent of the fact that there are more than one scripture that states it. So you are the one that has to justify NOT doing God’s Will.
            I can easily point out why I do do God’s Will, but according to scripture there is no excuse to willfully deny God’s Word if you are a believer. You are expected to know the scriptures that give you God’s Will which is all of the Bible. We need to obey Jesus’ commands to be able to receive Salvation and there is nothing you can say or show that will say anything else in God’s Word. It is impossible for God to lie and he never told us to ignore his commands or that they were optional. You are the one who is ignorant of the Word of God not I. You keep denying what I say without any Word of God to back your denial up with any real connection to the issue we are discussing at the time.

            So Adieu and good bye as I am not going to have anything to do with someone who is not teaching the Word of God the way it was intended to be understood. I will only flag your posts when they are inappropriate regardless of who you are being rude to as It is against the rules and eventually you will be banned.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            1 Peter
            1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
            1:2 “”””Elect””””” according to the “””””foreknowledge of God the Father”””””, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
            1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
            1:4 “”””””To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away”””””, “””””reserved in heaven for you”””””,
            1:5 “”””””Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation””””” ready to be revealed in the last time.

            Peter BELIEVED in the ELECTION and PREDESTINATION ….. and that it would NEVER FADE …. and could NOT BE LOST ………….. and look at the words He is using ….. ELECT ….. FOREKNOWLEDGE OF GOD …….. THAT FADETH NOT ………. WHO ARE KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION …………..

            you are a FALSE TEACHER ……………

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            2 Peter
            1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
            1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
            1:3 “”””””According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness,”””””” “””””through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:””””””
            1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
            1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
            1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
            1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
            1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
            1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
            1:10 “””””Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and ELECTION sure”””””: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
            1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

            AGAIN …. ELECTION ….. and HE HAS CALLED US TO GLORY …..

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            God does not sit in heaven with a flower …… plucking out the petals ….. and saying …… “I like her, I do not like her, I like her, I do not like her, I like her, I do not like her, I like her, I do not like her, I like her, I do not like her, I like her, I do not like her, I like her, I do not like her, ……..” and when you die ….. if he is on like or not like …. that is your fate ….. because with what you are saying ….. that is how it must work ….. and that is FALSE TEACHING …… and so are you …………..

          • LadyInChrist♥BlessedBeTheLord

            Be careful with “Eldrida Urika”.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ¯_(ツ)_/¯ ………..

          • I meant to tell you the same thing LadyinChrist just told you (it’s a setup), but didn’t (I think I got busy doing something else). God bless.

          • I thought the same thing a couple of days ago. I meant to send it to brother Amos, but didn’t. Thank you for doing so.

          • LadyInChrist♥BlessedBeTheLord

            Your welcome. I’ve been praying for him today. And I will continue to pray for him.

          • hiernonymous

            “A Christian would not try to hurt other Christians”

            Why do you put it like that? Wouldn’t a true Christian want to avoid hurting anyone else, Christian or not?

          • LadyInChrist♥BlessedBeTheLord

            As Christians we should not try to hurt or harm other Christians. It is not God’s plan for Christians. You do agree don’t you?
            Unless you not a Christian than you will not agree with me.

          • hiernonymous

            Christians should not try to hurt or harm anyone, Christian or not. Your wording invites the interpretation that the duty to avoid harming others is limited to other Christians, and that non-Christians are fair game.

            I don’t think that’s what you meant, so I am asking for clarification rather than putting words in your mouth. Would you not agree that Jesus enjoined mankind to “love your neighbor,” not just to “love your Christian neighbor?”

          • LadyInChrist♥BlessedBeTheLord

            Are you his sock puppet by any chance?
            You have no Idea why I said. For some reason I don’t trust you so I am blocking you.
            But I do wish you a blessed thanks giving.

          • hiernonymous

            “Are you his sock puppet by any chance?”

            My posting history is available for your inspection. It’s a pretty silly question.

            “You have no Idea why I said what I said.”

            That’s why I asked, instead of assuming.

            “For some reason I don’t trust you so I am blocking you.”

            That seems the Christian thing to do.

            “But I do wish you a blessed thanks giving.”

            That seems a bit insincere, coming on the heels of a declaration of mistrust. I wasn’t rude to you; why the hostility?

          • Eldrida Urika

            Your loss not mine. I will be saved because I follow all of Our Lord Jesus and do not ignore a single command he gave us.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            it is mine … nothing to be lost …. as adoption into Gods family is permanent and He will not go back on His word of adoption ….. see …. God ….. IS NOT A LIAR ….. and the New Covenant ….. is PERMANENT ……..

          • Eldrida Urika

            The two men that expected to be saved that did not do Jesus’ command to help the need and give them what they need to live without being needy again, they lost their salvation. How will you show that Salvation is guaranteed when Jesus Himself pointed out that not everyone who expects to be saved will be, and showed us why with that example.
            How will you account for that conflict in the scriptures?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope …. they never had it to begin with and your reading is FALSE ………….

            “Jesus Himself pointed out that not everyone who expects to be saved will be”

            wait …. what happened to John 3:16 ……. “3:16 For God so loved THE WORLD, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life” ………what happened to 2 Peter 3:9 ….. “3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance” …….. so you want it that way but then you want it another way ……..

            this is why you are a false teacher ……… God is not a schizophrenic …… God does not contradict Himself …. AS YOU DO AND CANNOT SEEM TO STOP CONTRADICTING YOURSELF ………… and the worst part is …. you are doing violence to the text …. OUT OF CONTEXT …. and all you can do is PROOF TEXT ….. and that makes for NO TEXT that makes any sense …….

          • Eldrida Urika

            Do you not understand that there are different ways to look at the scriptures and that other religions view them differently? This is obviously not the way you believe but you have to realize that one religion is not the “right” one they are still from the Bible and that means it is what Jesus meant when he said there are 7 Churches in Revelation.
            I am not a false teacher Amos I am just in a different religion and we believe that the scriptures are saying that, please do not tell people that I am a false teacher as that is a lie. You know it isn’t true so it is a lie for you to say it. It is also against the rules of this board to be disrespectful to other posters.
            You still have not told me what those scriptures say in your beliefs since you tell me that the scriptures that Jesus states more than once “Do my commandments” do not mean what I believe then what DO you read those scriptures are saying to you? What is Jesus saying?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you are right …. there is GODS way ….. and the REST ARE IN ERROR ……….

          • Eldrida Urika

            Did you really say that God made a mistake when he talked about the seven Churches? Wow!! Amos! Why would you say something like that? God does NOT make mistakes!! Wow!! I can’t believe you said that. SMH

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope ….. YOUR MISUSE of GODS WORD ….. is YOUR PROBLEM ….. i said GOD DOES NOT CONTRADICT HIMSELF ….. and you CONTINUALLY contradict scripture as you are a FALSE TEACHER ………..

          • Eldrida Urika

            Prove that it is an error then. Tell me what Jesus meant when he told us ALL to Do His Commands. How do YOU explain the numerous times Jesus said those words? What was Jesus talking about in this scripture? You can’t explain them can you?
            That is because you don’t know the scriptures and so you have no idea why He said that.
            PROVE that I am the false teacher Amos by explaining what those scriptures mean.
            Otherwise it is proof that you are the False Teacher.
            Not just to me but to the whole board.
            Go ahead and prove me wrong!

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you are blind to any proof that has already been given to you ….. i have already shown 4-5 times that your readings are OUT OF CONTEXT and that you DO VIOLENCE TO THE TEXT ….

            and your ARMINIANISM is REJECTED …………………

          • Eldrida Urika

            Another lie? You have not given me any explanation of the scriptures that you say are Contradictions. If they do not mean exactly what they say then what did Jesus mean when He told us to do His Commands?
            You haven’t answered that yet, you just insist that the scriptures are wrong with no reason to believe you.
            Just keep telling me lies and avoid answering the question. I’ll be asking until you prove to me about the scriptures being false commandments because they are not really meant to be followed after all.

          • Eldrida Urika

            You are not able to that’s all. So it is you who is the false teacher because you can’t back up your beliefs, and I can.
            I’ve been asking for your explanation about what the scriptures mean if I am wrong!

          • Eldrida Urika

            Then yours is just as wrong because it uses the Bible and so do the other churches AND come to think of it, you are saying that ALL of HIS churches are in error if they do not believe the way you do?

            And you call me a False Teacher? You misunderstand scriptures, Ignore Jesus’ commandments , do not display the characteristics of a Christian, get upset and display rudeness instead of supporting your beliefs, calmly and confidently as Christians are to stand up for our faith against all adversity, without faltering . So you have more to learn about the Gospel, to give you more understanding of the scriptures.
            Otherwise you will not be recognized by other Christians as a Christian. You cannot ignore everything Jesus said, can you?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you are WAY WAY WAY outside of orthodoxy …. you are a FALSE TEACHER ………..

          • Eldrida Urika

            I never said anything like that. What I have told you is Jesus gave us commands to do and you really think a God will like the fact that you ignored his commands that he told us specifically to do and still be rewarded for directly disobeying Jesus’ commands?
            Think about it Amos. God tells us to do anything and we must obey even if we do not want to. But you think he was just speaking to hear his own voice? I’m sure you are intelligent enough to figure this out.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            that is the precise outcome of scripture if what you say is true …. that you can jump in and out of salvation ….. which scripture says is impossible ….. so it all depends on when your candle burns out as to whether or not you are saved ….. and God is sitting there waiting on you …. IMPOTENT to do anything about you …. because YOUR WILL is greater than HIS WILL ….. and if that is true ….. then you may as well be an a-theist ….. and i can change my screen name to I>he ……….

            nope …. you teach a false gospel …. you teach falsely ….. you do violence to the text ….. and just like Kenneth Copeland ….. you are “spiritually dangerous” ……. and not in the good way ……

          • Eldrida Urika

            You are going against the rules every time you call me that and you should have been banned before now from the amount of flags I have put about your posts.
            Please stop lying about me. Just because we have different beliefs it does not make me a false teacher as I refer to scriptures too.
            You are not showing brotherly love for a sister when you do that. You do believe that Jesus told us to love our brethren?
            Calm down and tell me how /why you believe differently.
            Stop being angry and rude and tell me just how I am not accurate about those scripture correct it by telling me what you believe those scriptures Do say!

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            sure … whatever ………..

          • Eldrida Urika

            Oh right! You know the Moderator so you don’t expect you can be banned at all. Rules are rules and I will keep reporting your posts and I expect they have a limit of flagged posts before it will be necessary to ban you for the sheer number of posts you are rude to me.
            I’m starting to think you are a child by your childish outbursts.and seemingly temper tantrums. If you don’t think I was telling the truth about you displaying the Fruit of the Spirit accept my rebuke and make the changes you need to make. Don’t get mad at me for telling you.
            Galatians 4:16
            Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
            I meant that literally.
            We are supposed to tell each other when we see a brother going against the Word of God. That’s what I did. It’s up to you to with your free will whether you will try to reflect the Fruit in your life. Totally your choice.
            I don’t understand why you don’t follow all of the things that are in the Gospel. It was written to teach us everything that Jesus taught. Why do you ignore it?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            i know nobody …… i expect to be banned at any time … and i find it interesting that you are so unsure of yourself that you feel you need to get another person banned …… and that you PUBLICLY ADMIT your actions …. because you are so unsure of yourself ……

          • Eldrida Urika

            I am not unsure of myself because I can prove each and every point I have ever said about the scriptures and just because YOU can’t explain the scriptures that YOU say is a contradiction. The ball is in your hands and it’s your turn to prove to every one exactly what those scriptures mean if they are not ordering us to DO HIS COMMANDS then what ARE they saying?
            If you can’t explain it, it will be you who is a False Teacher. I look forward to seeing your explanation, it should be edifying for us all.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “I am not unsure of myself because I can prove each”

            your actions and statements BELIE that ….. trying to get someone banned is a sign of YOUR WEAKNESS and that you are a FALSE TEACHER ……….

          • Eldrida Urika

            You mean like your actions and statements Believe the fact that you are a Christian?
            My belief is not only my church that has those same beliefs, so that proves that my teaching is true for others, just not anyone who is in your religion.
            I will keep reporting your behavior to the Mod. so you had better be banned or I will make the complaints about this to Disqus itself. I have made a complaint before and had the problem dealt with .
            So when you are banned will you come back as the sock puppy like you accuse me of being? I will be able to tell it is you by your behavior anyways.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “My belief is not only my church that has those same beliefs, so that proves that my teaching”

            no it does not …. just because a church believes something does not make it correct … SCRIPTURE is the measure …. not “your church” ………. FAIL …………..

            “I will keep reporting your behavior to the Mod. so you had better be banned or I will make the complaints about this to Disqus itself. ”

            i see …. so not just threatening me ….. but also the Mod and the website as a whole …..

            TOS VIOLATION ……. TOS VIOLATION ……. TOS VIOLATION ……. TOS VIOLATION ……. TOS VIOLATION ……. TOS VIOLATION ……. TOS VIOLATION …….

            was nice knowing you ……….

          • Eldrida Urika

            You have been harassing me for days now I am annoyed that you are still here targeting me with lies and rudeness while I did not demeaning you faith until you went too far! I’m tired of your behavior and I want to have a real discussion with an Adult now. You should not be here as I think you have to be out of school age to post. Tsk another lie. SMH
            Off you go, and don’t forget to do your homework!

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you are the one who keeps responding to me ….. no one is harassing you ……. take your marbles and go home if it is such a burden ………..

          • Eldrida Urika

            You have been harassing and it doesn’t matter if I answer your post because I do not hard you about anything by being rude .
            I am not harassing you as I have better manners and did not try to ruin your reputation as you have mine. The thing is Amos my behavior does not show any signs of harassment like yours do.
            If I get banned it will prove you are friends of the MOD. Especially if you are not banned.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            now you are just boring me …… and you just responded again … AFTER claiming/ALLEGING “harassment” ….. and your actions BELIE what your claim is ……

            SMH ……

          • Eldrida Urika

            Try reading ALL of my post and maybe it will open your eyes. Yo still can’t read a whole post? Too difficult to do?
            I suggest you start reading ALL of the posts, ALL of the Time.
            You miss so much when you don’t read them. I say SO much more below the first part and often give a Mistake at the beginning so you won’t read them but everyone else can.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ignored ………. ARMINIAMISM is ignored ………..

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            those who threaten the Mod and the website is ignored ………..

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
            8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
            8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
            8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
            8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

          • Eldrida Urika

            This is a comment board we generally try to answer posts. The fact that you keep lying about me is what makes me post again. Stop lying and avoiding the question.
            If the scriptures that say that Jesus told us Do My Commandments does not mean what it says, what does it mean? You are allowed to ask a friend, but I will be asking for this information and since you use it to say I am a false teacher you need to prove it to all of us. Everyone is following this discussion and waiting for you to answer what those scriptures mean.
            You are acting more and more like the enemy works to get people to fall. Which means not only that you are at work with the enemy but that you are a false teacher.
            Better answer my question Amos. Or everyone here will know without a doubt which of us is a false teacher. And who is being used by the enemy.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ignored ………………

          • Eldrida Urika

            RUDE Poster Above!

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ignored …………

          • Eldrida Urika

            RUDE Poster warning! Do not engage in discussion. Lies then avoids the question! WARNING

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ignored ……………

          • Eldrida Urika

            You can’t explain the scriptures so you are trying to end the conversation! LMBO! You are SO obvious when you try to not answer a question. You start saying Ignored instead of trying to explain. How can you say your beliefs are right and everyone else’s is wrong and that I am a false teacher when I can support my belief?
            Explain the scriptures so you can prove that you are able to

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            1:4 According as HE HATH CHOSEN US in him BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
            1:5 Having PREDESTINATED us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, ACCORDING TO THE GOOD PLEASURE OF HIS WILL, (not our will)
            1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
            1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
            1:8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
            1:9 Having made known unto us THE MYSTERY OF HIS WILL, (not our will) according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
            1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
            1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being PREDESTINATED according to THE PURPOSE OF HIM (not us) who worketh all things after the counsel of HIS OWN WILL: (not our will)
            1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

            Yup … that sword cuts very very deep ….. and you have no scripture to counter it …..

          • Eldrida Urika

            No not that. I asked what the scriptures that say Jesus told us to do his Commands mean if they are conflicting with scripture then you must know what they are actually saying. That’s what I want you to explain. Read all of my post I

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            1:4 According as HE HATH CHOSEN US in him BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
            1:5 Having PREDESTINATED us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, ACCORDING TO THE GOOD PLEASURE OF HIS WILL, (not our will)
            1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
            1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
            1:8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
            1:9 Having made known unto us THE MYSTERY OF HIS WILL, (not our will) according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
            1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
            1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being PREDESTINATED according to THE PURPOSE OF HIM (not us) who worketh all things after the counsel of HIS OWN WILL: (not our will)
            1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

            His will …. NOT our will ……… God is in control of salvation …. NOT us ….

          • Eldrida Urika

            Just to let you know I put a challenge in this post for ALL to see!
            Why shouldn’t I admit that you are harassing me which people can see untill they flag the posts.
            You are the only one who treats me badly and I have great discussion with the other Christians here, without the childish name calling.
            You just don’t get it do you?
            People can see by my behavior is of a Christian, but yours shows nothing that states you are a Christian. you are rude, you demeaning others, Lie about people you don’t even know, and you cannot back up anything that proves that the scriptures are not Contradictions to tell us what they ARE.
            You need to stop making others lose their salvation because you believe differently does not make my religion wrong. Jesus won’t be happy if you midirect people to a false teacher who tells us Jesus made a mistake, and those scriptures don’t mean what they say. Just because you don’t know the scriptures it doesn’t mean you should encourage others to ignore Jesus” commands! If you choose yourself to ignore them, that’s your choice but lying about the Gospel is wrong and it is how the enemy works to stop people from getting their salvation.
            So either you explain what they mean or it is proof you are trying to get others to make a mistake . Which is it?

          • Eldrida Urika

            I never said that because scripture tells us that when we turn away from Jesus it is with the knowledge of the consequences. Do you believe that if we fail and turn back to our fleshy past behavior then realize we made a mistake and repent he will forgive because he repented .
            But someone who turns away and does not repent, Elect or not that person will not be saved!
            If they are not righteous they will. Not. Go to heaven. That is spelled out in the scriptures.
            It is not my fault that you don’t know the scriptures Amos
            I have shown you scriptures after scripture that are so clear, a child could understand what they say, but you insist I am. Teaching false beliefs and that yours is the only one that is right amongst all the churches. No evidence of that either.
            You are telling everyone here that yours is the only one?
            You are showing yourself to be as unrighteous as the scribes and the Pharisee.
            You teach others that they do not have to follow Jesus’ commands when everyone knows you must obey the Lord Jesus Christ, so you are giving them a false twisted belief that will lose their Salvation if they listen to you!
            That makes YOU the false teacher, not me!
            So it is you that is teaching the scriptures incorrectly and cannot explain when you are shown your error.
            If all you have is to call me names, GROW UP and prove yourself as a Christian that can defend his beliefs, instead of trying to ruin my reputation, why don’t you improve your own?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ” Do you believe that if we fail and turn back to our fleshy past ”

            the only ones who do that …. WERE NEVER TRULY SAVED ….. and …. those who are TRULY SAVED …. scripture says it is IMPOSSIBLE ………… and YOU QUOTED THAT SCRIPTURE …. in Hebrews ….. and yet you do not comprehend its meaning …. and thus you are a FALSE TEACHER …………..

            “Elect or not that person will not be saved!”

            the ELECT are ALL SAVED PERSONS ….. they are not a special class of saved persons …. and again …. you demonstrate that you do not know what you are talking about … and that you are a FALSE TEACHER …………..

          • Eldrida Urika

            Half of the Elect will fail by ignoring their Bible all week and I doing their own will instead of God”s Will, if you think all of the Elect is saved those who do not the will of God are sinners whether they believe or not.
            Otherwise every single person will be saved.
            Sorry for being a messenger but if you are ignoring God”s will, then you are sinning and unless you repent you have lost your Salvation – Go ahead and try to prove that wrong!

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            1:4 According as HE HATH CHOSEN US in him BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
            1:5 Having PREDESTINATED us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, ACCORDING TO THE GOOD PLEASURE OF HIS WILL, (not our will)
            1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
            1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
            1:8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
            1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
            1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
            1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being PREDESTINATED according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
            1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

          • Eldrida Urika

            You can’t believe that someone who ignored God’s will can be saved with out going to Judgement to explain why you are So naive.
            Jesus wants us to be the kind of people who will obey him at all times not people who ignore them. He taught us how to behave so we will finish the race before the people who don’t do His will.
            He wants people who show the love he told us to have as Christians. He doesn’t want rude, or hateful acting people. They will not fit in to what He wants to have in heaven.
            Jesus never said anything that wasn’t a lesson in some way. You don’t seem to understand that.
            I guess the ones that choose not to do His will do not believe enough to obey. So why don’t you do his Commands Amos? Don’t you have enough belief to?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            1:4 According as HE HATH CHOSEN US in him BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
            1:5 Having PREDESTINATED us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, ACCORDING TO THE GOOD PLEASURE OF HIS WILL, (not our will)
            1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
            1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
            1:8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
            1:9 Having made known unto us THE MYSTERY OF HIS WILL, (not our will) according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
            1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
            1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being PREDESTINATED according to THE PURPOSE OF HIM (not us) who worketh all things after the counsel of HIS OWN WILL: (not our will)
            1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

            HIS WILL …. not our will …….. so simple ……….

          • Eldrida Urika

            1:7 In Whom … The forgiveness of sin. That’s all his grace provides. Forgiveness for sin repented.
            Predestination is about how the Lord is going to use us for his purposes, not that he picked some and decided that everyone else is going to be punished! Our God loves all of us, sinners too. He is righteous and Just. He would not condemn people before the foundation of the world. It would not be a Just decision and our God cannot be unjust!
            So you are misunderstanding the scriptures by forgetting who God is! He never makes unjust decision and you are awful for implying God would do that.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            1:4 According as HE HATH CHOSEN US in him BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
            1:5 Having PREDESTINATED us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, ACCORDING TO THE GOOD PLEASURE OF HIS WILL, (not our will)
            1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
            1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
            1:8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
            1:9 Having made known unto us THE MYSTERY OF HIS WILL, (not our will) according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
            1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
            1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being PREDESTINATED according to THE PURPOSE OF HIM (not us) who worketh all things after the counsel of HIS OWN WILL: (not our will)
            1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

            PREDESTINED …. saved BEFORE all of creation was created ….. BEFORE anyone ever sinned as they were not yet created …. GOD KNEW …. God is omniscient ….. God has ALL FOREKNOWLEDGE …… HE would not save a person and then reject them because (fill in the blank) ….. God does not renege on His promises ………..

          • Eldrida Urika

            Can you please explain the scriptures that say Jesus said that we do his Commands, not any other scripture just those that says that specifically about his Commands. You keep showing me different ones than I am asking about.
            You keep telling me about your beliefs when I want you to explain those scriptures and what they mean since you tell me the scriptures are conflicting so tell me what they are about. Please!

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            we are under grace … we are not under the law ….. just as good works grow out of our grace from being saved …… we are more inline with Gods thoughts to keep His law ….. we will never keep it perfectly ….. we are not capable of keeping it …… not even for an hour …. all sins fall under grace ….. PAST, PRESENT, and FUTURE …… they do not cause us to lose anything ….. when the Father looks at us … He sees His son, Christ Jesus, as we have His perfect covering and have His sinless nature imputed to us ……. because He took all that sin at the Cross …… and paid all the penalty ….. PAST, PRESENT, and FUTURE ….. and the judgement we come under as saved persons is not the judgement of the Father for unbelievers …… but under the judgement of Christ, He is our judge, and He is our advocate before the Father ……….

            does that make it clear for you …………

          • Eldrida Urika

            But he’s the one that said it! You are arguing with Jesus not me. It is in his scripture and I didn’t put it there. So tell us what those scriptures mean, Amos. Just those scriptures not other ones. if you feel they are not saying what I said they are, tell me what they Do mean.
            Explain why it is not Contradictions that Jesus said that? He’s God, he can tell us to do anything for Him. So if he is not telling us to do his Commands what IS he saying? That’s what I have been asking.

          • Nick Halflinger

            You have cut and pasted this exact same quote six times in the last three hours. This doesn’t seem to be making you argument appear well thought out or even replying coherently the other posts.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “1 Corinthians 15:1-2
            1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
            2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.”
            15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
            15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
            15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
            15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
            15:7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
            15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
            15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

            NOTHING THERE ABOUT LOSING YOUR SALVATION ……………….. in fact it CONFIRMS our belief is NOT IN VAIN ….. and nothing else …………. you are OUT OF CONTEXT and you are MISUSING the scripture …………

          • Eldrida Urika

            It was in reference to the second verse which again says that If you do not keep IN your MEMORY what he has taught us, then you will have believed in vain. It is telling us to follow the scriptures and remember what you have been commanded by Jesus, because if you do not his commands, your belief will not save you.

            2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
            So it is about losing our salvation because that is what it means by “believed in vain”. Do you not understand it that way?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            FALSE TEACHING …. ARMINIANISM ………..

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
            2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
            2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
            “2 Peter 2:20-22
            20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
            21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.”
            2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
            2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
            2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

            you are OUT OF CONTEXT and you are MISUSING the scripture ………… the people being spoken of here WERE NEVER SAVED TO BEGIN WITH …… Wells WITHOUT water …. the WATER CHRIST OFFERS …..clouds “to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.” ….. these people were NEVER TRULY SAVED ….. OUT OF CONTEXT …………

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            1 Corinthians 9:27
            9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
            9:23 And this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
            9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
            9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
            9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
            9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have PREACHED to others, I myself should be a castaway.

            this is talking about BECOMING A FALSE PREACHER ….. ” lest that by any means, when I have PREACHED to others, I myself should be a castaway” ….. you are again OUT OF CONTEXT ….. this passage is about PREACHING THE TRUE GOSPEL …… which you seem incapable of doing …………….

          • Eldrida Urika

            No one who claims to be a Christian should deny what the scripture say, over what they have been taught. If they are shown that there are conflicting scriptures you must find out for yourself why there seems to be a conflict because we know God’s Word must be able to find out and let ourselves make any adjustments to this new information as God’s Word is what we believe in when it comes to those particular scriptures.

          • Eldrida Urika

            I’m positive that I have never in my life said that I know everything. I have read plenty of “evidence” of other beliefs and I have talked to others of your belief too. I don’t need the opinions of experts when I can hear it from the people of faith and be able to make a decision for myself which is closer to what Jesus told us.

            I am offended by your accusations and I am only going to say this…

            I prove my ‘fear’ of deception in the church and that is why I always refer back to the scriptures after being told the Word by someone else other than a person who I trust. I look for the scriptures and then I can see whether they are a liar or not.
            I have never used the scriptures out of context unless someone is defensive about not being able to understand it the way I do. I expect your resistance to learn new bible scripture is done for the sole purpose of not letting go of the way you have been taught. I was taught to search the scriptures more than listen to men, and they are the Word of God and they are the only thing that matters. Men giving an opinion is just that – a man’s opinion.

            By my words being in alignment to Gods with scriptural support, you have no fear I am trying to convert anyone to my religion, for one thing I rarely mention my own religion, and because my lessons are based on the same lessons Jesus gave us in the bibles so they can only be edifying in the same way.

            I know that the Holy Spirit is in way more than just one person but your behavior contradicts the possibility you have had the second baptism.

            People change when they receive the Holy Spirit Amos. It is a visible change to people who know them. A teenager who has received the Holy Spirit stopped doing anything after school until she got her homework done; who takes care of her younger siblings offering to do it without a problem and is loving and kind to them, when there used to be resistance to any association with them, with homework, with helping out at all. But when she received the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues, the change was outstanding and very visible with her behavior.

            God wants us all to have the Holy Spirit but it comes from a stronger belief than in Jesus being the savior. Anyone who tells you they have received the Holy Spirit without any sign of change at all, is not being correct in their beliefs because it will change them, unless they have been confirmed to speak another tongue with witnesses.

            If you choose not to follow Jesus’ commands knowing they are there and choose not to look at scriptures that is what you call your free will Amos. I can’t force you; No one can force you to believe or not believe but yourself and that included what your choice to believe out of all the ways others believe. It makes absolutely NO DIFFERENCE to me whether you take my words to heart, and read the scriptures for yourself. If you or anyone who believes differently that how I teach the word of God I will be happy to discuss it, but you don’t know how to discuss with out your childishness or maleness showing when you call me names and try to hurt my reputation. You see, the problem with you saying those things is that I behave properly and I do not accuse you of doing more than ignoring my posts, and not checking my scriptures.
            so please stop maliciously accusing me of things that you have no proof of. I am not lying about anything. I do NOT lie about anything EVER to ANYONE. So get that straight and leave me about those things.Stop showing hate for me when I do not treat you with hate.
            1John 3:14-15
            14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
            15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            so you do not feel a need to listen to the Holy Spirit and what He has revealed to others ….. not surprised …… so you are just mouthing a profession of christianity ….. and really do not want to be challenged in your error …. fine …. live in ERROR …………

            Luke 9:5 And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.

            (dust shaken) ………..

          • Eldrida Urika

            The Holy Spirit is about your personal relationship with God, so I have no need to hear what others offer without true knowledge that they have the Spirit. Many claim to have it but do not show the Fruits of the Spirit in their behavior or lives. People with the Holy Spirit will not be rude to others. They will not act arrogantly because of their gift. They do not flaunt the fact that they have the Holy Spirit but use it’s power only when it guides us to our destiny.

            The Holy Spirit indwelling within us has more power than just the Holy Spirit of repentance (water baptism)

            It isn’t just about helping us to stop, it’s about being given gifts that are spoken of in 1 Corinthians chapter 12. It also give the various people in the body of Christ that hold positions. You might want to read it to know what position list will you be interested in?
            I believe that the Holy Spirit will tell me if there is anything I need to know without going to listen to bogus stories about someone else twisting of the scriptures about something I do know from experience. That would be stupid to not trust the Holy Spirit to want to tell me anything and show me someone else teaching my the lesson is not likely when it will teach you the lesson.

            You really should know more about a person before you call them names and try to belittle their personal reputations in public.
            I have never attacked anyone on the comment board ever.
            I have tried to keep as close to the rules as possible

            I have been polite even to the rudest of posters
            I never shout but only used the CAPS when emphasizing a point as you told my cousin you do.

            I have never tried to insist that my belief is the only one and often tell people to look for the scriptures to confirm whether what I say is true or not.
            I’ve even offered a challenge to the posters here to prove that Jesus told us to rebuke sinners who do not know the gospel, because the scripture actually says to rebuke our brethren, and that we are not to bother non-believers except to tell them the story of salvation. We are not supposed to harass them. Or call them names. Or humiliate others. EVER

            Our brethren know the consequences and believe that they will happen, so if they are back sliding we as their family have to do what we can to keep him reaching for God, not sinning.

            So you have no right except that of a petulant child to try to make it out like I am the one who is wrong and a liar and try to bully me to stop preaching the gospel. Sorry, I was told people will try to stop others from hearing the gospel before and nothing you say will stop me. The way you post needs to be helped for understanding and usually it is help to understand how it was missing some things from scriptures. Otherwise I SMH at your posts and go to the next poster.
            Amos I encourage you to look over yourself and the way you live and behave and recognize the things that are not of Jesus and that those things are sin you must overcome, and repent for.

            I know you are unlikely to read this far, but I can’t get through with short replies still so at least others can read what I am trying to say to Amos.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            is the Holy Spirit a person OR NOT ……….. do you deny the TRINITY ….. that God is three persons ………….

          • Eldrida Urika

            The “trinity” is made of God the Father, Jesus HIS SON, and the HOLY SPIRIT.
            But! when Jesus died he was no longer a person. human. he was a spirit.
            Not just that but all 3 are actually OF GOD, and there is no longer a human in those 3 because Jesus died and became a spirit.
            You deny that you must follow Christ’s commands to have salvation and that is WRONG. So you should stop giving so much false information to the others. You can’t even prove your own belief. If that isn’t because YOU have been led astray I guess it is because you want to lead others away from the true Gospel.
            Stop calling me names and start proving your belief. I do not lie but it is looking like you don’t lie about your belief because you just spout off words or change the conversation. You can’t even answer my questions but you can see I answer every one of yours. You may not agree with my answer but at least I give one. You don’t seem capable of defending your belief at all.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Christ is in heaven IN His GLORIFIED BODY ….. as we will be ………

          • Eldrida Urika

            I do not agree for a good reason. Human bodies cannot go to heaven. Our bodies remain here when we go to heaven. Plus, his body was not able to conquer death, it is our spirit that remains after death.
            Show me the scriptures that say that his human body will be in heaven. There is no such scripture, so show me where in the bible you THINK that is what the scriptures say.
            Don’t try to distract from the question. Answer it. or I will call you a heretic for adding to the word of God. Scriptures and not some nonsense that a human has put together. Only God’s Word itself will be accepted if you want to prove this is true.
            Bodies rot and return to the earth just as it is said
            Ecclesiastes 12
            7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
            Human bodies cannot be lifted up to heaven. It is only as a spirit that we can go to heaven. No human bodies will be there, not even our Lord Jesus’ Christ mortal body. His spirit will be there but not one person who dies is a body anymore, they are a spirit. Jesus Christ died. It was his spirit that was seen after the resurrection, not his mortal body.

            Looking forward to hearing your scriptures to prove me wrong.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            does not make one wit of difference if you AGREE or NOT ………. that is where He is …… and when He returns ….. it will also be in bodily form ……. and the apostles saw Him rise to heaven in that form ………… so your agreement is not required ………..

          • Eldrida Urika

            PROVE IT TO ME IN SCRIPTURES or all you say is just nonsense. You forget that I base everything on scriptures not on man’s word. Prove it for everyone here to see your proof of that

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            here is the thing ….. you MISUSE of scripture proves nothing outside of your own mind …… and you do not desire to listen to others who have heard from the Holy Spirit …. your reluctance to do that … or your INABILITY to do that makes it fruitless …………..

          • Eldrida Urika

            I have never misused scriptures and you would have to prove that too.
            You don’t even use scriptures so you have no understanding of the scriptures I use.
            And still you won’t even try to prove it. You are unable to support your religious beliefs with scriptures, that’s ok, lots of people have a hard time especially when they do not know the Word of God very well.
            You lied when you said you answer direct questions. You won’t. you flat out refuse. The only conclusion from that is that you are not ABLE to.
            It isn’t because you think I will misunderstand it; it is either because you can’t prove your belief in scriptures at all, or you don’t care if others learn to believe because of your proof it is a correct belief.
            I think this has just made my own beliefs more significant than yours just because you can’t support it at all with the bible.

            and you do not desire to listen to others who
            have heard from the Holy Spirit …. your reluctance to do that … or
            your INABILITY to do that makes it fruitless …………..

            Why should I listen to others about the Holy Spirit when I am guided by it myself. The Holy Spirit is given to individuals and is to guide us each different in different ways depending on the person’s needs. It’s not something you can describe or something that tells us to shout to the world that we have it. Anyone who goes on a disreputable site like YouTube to say anything worthwhile is useless on the basis of where they show their video. Most churches have their own sites now, why is it on a site like youtube if it is a valid video. Why hasn’t it been picked up by other churches as a worthwhile video to watch. I pretty much need someone who follows God’s Word to tell me that something on YouTube is worthwhile, and not someone who is not able to recognize heresy when you hear it.
            And again, you show no support for your own belief to anyone who is reading our posts.

          • Eldrida Urika

            So you think you should not try? That’s giving up and Jesus would not like that. He wants all to come to him to be saved. If we do not edify each other how can we grow in God’s Word?
            Besides what difference is it to you if I don’t agree. You still need to be able to support your belief for anyone who asks about it and you can’t . You refuse. You do not help others by giving them the reason for believing your way. You don’t know the gospel and you do not use the scriptures from the gospel to edify others about it. How do you expect to convert non-believers if you don’t tell them about your belief in him? because without that, they will choose another church every time.
            It is your inability to explain it, and not want to help others to believe. It’s not just you and I that read these posts you know.

          • Eldrida Urika

            by the way. because you did not prove it in scriptures, I now believe it is not there and that you are a liar saying nonsense instead of the Word of God. Without proof your belief is bogus. bupkiss NOTHING. it is just words of a man.
            if you were a christian and understood God’s Word you would be giving me the proof because Jesus told us to be prepared to defend our beliefs.
            You just keep showing me ways to convince me that you are not a Christian at all.
            No fruits. Bad behavior. Even telling me a way to believe but not backing it up with scriptures.
            You didn’t even know that the second baptism existed before my cousin told you. Then you asked if Jesus was burned by it. lol Jesus was gone or the Holy Spirit (the comforter) could not exist.
            Until you can use scriptures to prove everything you say like i am able to, I do not consider you a Christian. You do not show the signs that we are supposed to be easily identified by.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            SHARON at home ….. BEAMER ….. WHATEVER you are calling yourself today ….. (sock puppet) ….. you have been preaching this same garbage for all of your identities …… when are you going to buy a clue …… get a different teacher ……. and do not try to blame the Holy Spirit for your clanging symbols ….. you are not listening to Him ….

            Debate: Predestination or Free Will? (White vs Sungenis)
            youtube;com/watch?v=LNuChQUsIMU

            change the ; to a .

          • Eldrida Urika

            I am not preaching the wrong things that is exactly why I am telling you to stop or I will continue to flag your comments as harassing and aimed at ruining my reputation. Get it through your thick skull that YOURS IS NOT THE ONLY RELIGION. 7 churches will be judged and that means 7 different understandings OF THE BIBLE NOT JUST YOURS.

            Besides the fact that you have NEVER given me scriptures to prove your belief that only some people will be saved as predestined people OR that Jesus died for only his followers when the Scriptures states that Jesus said it was for everyone IN THE WORLD. Not just the believers.. As a matter of a fact that is a reason why Jesus came to earth before his death was to turn MORE people to God/Jesus. He died for our sins and that alone is the belief that will bring you closer to God.
            You are also a twit for thinking because I have the same belief as my cousin does as we are of the same religion so OF COURSE we talk about the same things in the bible.
            You on the other hand believe in a man made document that tells you what to believe rather than telling you to read the scriptures yourself to know if it was true or if you are being led astray as the Jews were by the scribes and Pharisee. That would make you a hypocrite by not following the gospel. Just saying!
            I NEVER watch any youtube videos about religion because there are too many out of reasonable understanding of the bible there. If you think that watching video’s is going to help your faith , you’re wrong. It’s knowing God’s Word that helps your growth in the lord and to edify us all. You don’t know the lord very well, if you cannot support your own belief with in context scriptures. I CAN give supporting scriptures for OUR belief, can you? Go ahead give me SCRIPTURES not that man made document that arrogantly tells you that you are prime people that will be the ONLY ones saved and that you have NOTHING to do to be saved. It’s so totally against what the Gospel says, it is not a biblical view. Notice that I have not insulted you about your religion, just stated that you should look at the beam in your own eye, before you tell someone else that they are wrong. You have no clue what the bible says and just rely on a humans rules about it instead of following the Lord’s Commandments.
            I have told you over and over that I am trying to get you to realize your mistakes but you won’t even look at the scriptures. Your error, not mine.
            Be careful how you talk about the Holy Spirit. YOU may not be led by the Holy Spirit but others INCLUDING both my cousin and I have had the second baptism which you weren’t even aware of, so you should be careful considering blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the ONLY unforgivable sin. People who blasphemy the Holy Spirit will not have a life book and you will not be even a soul or spirit by the time God gets through with you. Again, that is scripture that you probably are not aware of in the Gospel.
            Good bye Amos. You are not going to keep getting away with breaking the rules considering all the people who did go by the rules that were banned, your behaviour is far worse than any of theirs.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            flag away … i do not care ….. has nothing to do with me ….. you preach ARMINIANISM ….. a false christian gospel centered on mans “free will” …. nothing for me to ruin ….. you are ruining it …… SHARON at Home … Beamer …. Mama Barely …..

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            The Romans Nine Debate
            James White vs Leighton Flowers
            youtube;com/watch?v=_wuDloSP-VU
            change the ; to a .

            Debate: Predestination or Free Will? (White vs Sungenis)
            youtube;com/watch?v=LNuChQUsIMU
            change the ; to a .

          • Eldrida Urika

            I keep telling you Amos that I go strictly by the bible and do not use outside sources unless my church gives them to me. I look, but I will look to see how it differs from ours, not to change my belief and especially not to believing in a hateful God. Jesus is Love in the NT just as God IS love in the OT. ALL love Amos, not just pick and choose but every kind of love.
            I can’t discuss the bible from video’s, so If you can support your belief in the scriptures ALONE then show me those.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “I go strictly by the bible and do not use outside sources”

            i see …. first ….. the link is not just for you but for others who DO listen to OTHERS who have read the scriptures and LISTENED to the Holy Spirit …… and your man-centered theology and narcissism stops you …. it is for others who are reading your missives and are mislead so that THEY may hear the truth of scriptures in a BALANCED presentation …… and your man-centered theology and narcissism stops you …… SECOND ……. it is also evidence of just how LITTLE you DO listen to the Holy Spirit as you seem to think He only speaks truly to you and no other and no one else is worth listening to or they are precluded from hearing from the Holy Spirit …… and your man-centered theology and narcissism stops you ………….

          • Alec Pinder

            That isn’t what blind faith means, idiot.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            YUP … it absolutely is ….. no independent verification ….. just faith in what was said or written and BLINDLY at that ……….. OH ….. and TOS violation ………..

          • Dr_Gonzzzo

            So who do you listen to?
            Scientists and the transgender people themselves…Or do you listen to some random commenter on the internet who throws out mental illness as if they are professionals in the field?
            Do you listen to an Atheist describe Christianity, or do you listen to a theologian?
            Why do you prefer blind “faith” just because you subjectively believe that your messiah shares your anti-trans agenda rather than transgender people and scientists who work with this all day long?
            What makes fundies like you qualified to make assessment over something and people you know jack shit about and have no interest in learning more about?
            Why should we listen to close minded people who takes non-existent bible verses to condemn something that makes you behave more juvenile than Beavis&Butthead?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “Scientists and the transgender people themselves” …. error is error …. we do not allow the mentally ill to diagnose themselves so their assessment is not reliable nor the “scientists” who listen to them …… just because a “scientist” says something does not make it science ………. “What makes fundies like you qualified to make assessment ” – Back at cha … What makes you qualified to make an assessment ……….. “Why should we listen to close minded people” …. you should be asking yourself the same questions ….. your mind seems PARTICULARLY CLOSED ……… if what is said here is so bothersome to you ….. then why are you here ….. my mind is open ….. just not so much that my BRAIN falls out of my skull …………………

          • Dr_Gonzzzo

            We do not allow confused Christians to diagnose people who are perfectly fine except for their gender identity.
            You insist on dehumanising them and pathologist them.. And still claim that Jesus is your best buddy who sits on your shoulder and cheers for your savage attitude. You shit on others and think you are entitled to be treated as an equal. The way you address others makes me wonder if you are a masochist who likes it when others shit all over you.
            And have no remedy or cure for their “mental illness” except for fake bible prejudices.
            Tell the transgender VETERANS that only bigot fundies like you and not their doctors have the right to diagnose them and dictate how to live their lives. Tell transgender soldiers that it’s immoral to let them serve and more immoral to live their lives as they see fit.
            Tell the transgender people that you know more about their lives and what goes in inside of them then themselves.
            You do that, and I will get in your face and tell you how perverted you fundie child molesters are.

            You falsely claim they are mentally ill, and invoke your your cult which is full of retards as authority over others..
            Whatever you claim is neither science nor Jesus morals.. But a mixed stew of incoherent rants about how you are so superior to everybody else that you have the mandate to deny transgender VETERANS with medals civil rights and the rights to make decisions for themselves.
            You, sir, are en extremist and a mentally ill zealot who should have your internet privileges taken away from you since you choose to waste time to spew uneducated, indoctrinated garbage to deflect from your own internalized issues.
            Sort your own mental issues out before attempting to be Dr. Phil…
            But by all means. Keep living with the delusion that you deserve an ounce of respect or acknowledgment all the time you spew out hate language against people who are far more sane than you and anyone in your sectarian cult family will ever be..
            I can only imagine if you ever became a parent to a kid who turned out to be transgender. I can only imagine what hell you will put your own flesh and blood through because of his/her “mental illness”…I can imagine how you will drive your own child to suicide because of your tyrannical need to bully others into misery to make yourself feel better.
            You are a sad, sad, little hateful, and ignorant person.
            I will prey for your enlightenment and that also you one day will become a good person without prejudice, hate and false dogmas.
            Besides… In USA… Your preciious religious dogmas and bigotry is of complete irrelevance.
            As far as transgender rights goes, your say is meaningless. Your opinion matters as much as used toilet paper.
            In other words, you are wasting yours and everybody else’s time with your horse crap.’
            The only thing you are doing is embarrassing yourself and make your entire cult look ridiculously pathetic and hypocritical.
            You worship wealth, money hoarders, guns, militarism, “patriotism”, nationalism (on stolen land where Christians went on a genocidal killing spree to enrichen yourselves) and have a problem with transgender people living their lives…
            In other words,….Christian boy… You have major issues in your life which you project on others. Your focus is so out of line that you have completely lost direction in all your self righteous delusions as a wannabe Freud.
            Seek help!
            Not an exorcist but a psychiatrist who can sort out the mess in your head.’

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “people who are perfectly fine except for their gender identity.”

            says who …. and on what basis ….. if a severely underweight person who had bulimia/anorexia and wanted to go on a highly restrictive diet ….. that would be cool ….. and who are YOU to say otherwise ….. ON WHAT BASIS ……. letting people self diagnose and treat is not science ….. it is not medicine …… it is INSANITY ……….

          • Dr_Gonzzzo

            Project much?

            They are perfectly fine. It’s you that has a defect…

            They are fine as long as they are being left alone from predators and perverted bullies who pretend you are Christians like you.
            The transgender VETERANS seem to be in far better mental balaance than some loonie internet commenter who claims to represent baby Jesus.
            When you say they are mentally ill you name no source.
            So according to whose standards are transgender people mentally ill, and who gave you that authority to give diagnosis?
            Transgender people experience gender dysphoria as well as bullying and discrimination from retarded Christian trolls like you who have not evolved mentally since 5th grade.
            They go to a DOCTOR. They get diagnosed.. And they get treatment, -which is HRT,
            What you scream out like a petulant child is “insanity”… But off no cure.
            Which means you have nothing productive to contribute with unless you consider spewing out false Christianity and expose yourself for being the hateful individual you are.
            You don’t believe in peer reviewed studies or transgender people themselves.
            You think they are lying perverts who must submit to your “treatment”.,
            The thing is, that you don’t give any solution or cure.
            The only thing you do is what every RWer who are dishonest at your core is to throw out garbage, hoping for a pat on the back for your insanity.
            People know who they are. I suppose you think you know who you are. Transgender people know who they are.
            You are in no position to label them after your sick head.
            Seek help and get sedated! You are clearly posing a threat to your surrounding with your fanatical hatred for transgender people.
            I think fundies need a forced conversion therapy from the mental insanity of Christianity that has infested your brains. And to be denied to participate until you have passed a civics test.
            We do not want a bunch of armed bible wackos threatening LGBT people with your violent religion of hate.
            How about that?
            Problem solved!

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Ignored as irrelevant and argumentative ….. which is your only reason for being here ……. you have no real reasoned arguement and just want to bloviate your invective …..

            “They are fine as long as they are being left alone from predators and perverted bullies who pretend you are Christians like you.” ….. “Project much?”

            you should answer your own question …………

    • TheKingOfRhye

      Sex is between your legs. Gender is between your ears.

  • Amos Moses – He>i

    Mn has become such a cesspool ……….

    • Lark.62

      Then maybe we need access to universal health care. Because the god you worship cares about all people, even immigrants.

      • Amos Moses – He>i

        sure … but the answer to health care is not to steal from others ……… that is theft …… and antithetical to christianity ………

        • Lark.62

          Yes. Just like Jesus (never!) said. “Don’t care about the poor cuz thats yucky socialism. Ewwww.”

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            He does care about the poor …. THATS why He does not want them STOLEN FROM to finance your idea of what is right ………….

      • Amos Moses – He>i

        Socialized health care system COLLAPSES in Venezuela… no more hospital beds, no matter how sick you are

        ahhh, yes …. PANACEA ……….. socialism and communism work just wonderfully ….. until you run out of OTHER peoples money …………..

      • Amos Moses – He>i

        BROKE: Single-payer British health system may begin rationing surgeries even if it kills people due to a lack of funding

        yeah …. thats what we need ….. thats the ticket …………

  • Reason2012

    We ready to get back to God yet? To accept His offer to forgive and forget by what Christ did for us, the only begotten Son of God? Read the gospels again with sincere desire to know what Jesus did and said while He was here!

    The unsaved world continues to provide amazing proof that God is real and His judgment is real, and judgment is coming for every one of us for our lifetime of breaking God’s laws (sin) and refusing His offer to forgive and forget: He’s calling us to have a change of mind about sin, to instead have a change of mind to turn away from it, back towards God, and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as the Only begotten Son of God.

    Most churches do not even preach on how Jesus warned more about_hell than He spoke of heaven:

    “And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that_kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath_killed hath power to cast into_hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.”
    Luke 12:4-5

  • Nidalap

    And so the inmates are put in charge of the asylum.
    Only the sane will be called crazy now…

    • Amos Moses – He>i

      i am not going insane …. i am going sane in an insane world ………..

      • zabazoom

        take yer meds

      • Silas Jennings

        How sane did you expect it to be after you elected Trump?

        • Maxwell Edison

          What’s your point?

          • Silas Jennings

            If you want sanity in the world, stop electing the insane.

          • Maxwell Edison

            We did. It’s why we have Trump as President, and not a socialist felon like Hillary. You know, the one you screamed over last year and again yesterday?

          • Silas Jennings

            Why do you assume someone who distrusts Trump is automatically a fan of Hillary? Given the choice over the fat loud incompetent clown who has a 33% approval rating, however, I think it’s clear she would have been far less destructive and obnoxious.

          • Maxwell Edison

            You answered the question for me. Thank you.

          • Silas Jennings

            You’re welcome. Incidentally, “well at least it’s not Hillary” was a cop out answer the first time, and it still is.

          • Maxwell Edison

            Incidentally, that’s a non-sequitur.

          • Silas Jennings

            Consider it a change of subject.

          • Maxwell Edison

            No.

          • Silas Jennings

            Then you really have nothing, right? Your hero Trump gets taken to task and all you have is a diversionary tactic. “Look! Hillary!”

          • Eldrida Urika

            I think it is because she was the only other choice that people assume that if you don’t like Trump then Hilary would be President now. Makes sense when you think about it.

          • Silas Jennings

            I think I would have preferred a small can of pressed lunch meat over Trump.

          • Eldrida Urika

            SPAM!! nah that’s not good for you hahaha Maybe go to a deli and get some Good meat to choose over Trump instead!
            Some do not like Trump and others want the same things he wants, to be safe, to have the same rights as anyone else. He’s made a lot of money on his instincts I expect so he will honestly try to make the best deals for the country. He wants America to be what it used to be which is a leading nation of the world, and he feels it cant be that without giving the American public the ability to be able to benefit from the focus on the American way of life. He doesn’t want to harm anyone, he wants to lessen the immigration so the people of the country will be able to find jobs and not be on welfare because they have no way of getting a job. He’s focused on the US because he feels the US is most important and is trying to give the people in the States a chance to overcome the influx of people who will eventually take some of the jobs on the market.
            The idea of immigrants bringing better economics is only true when everyone has a chance to work, not just them. Plus it takes years for them to start making a difference to the areas because of the time spent adjusting and getting themselves prepared for working and living in a totally different environment. It’s when there are jobs created for them that they start having an effect on the economy other than being helped to settle, and that provides us all with jobs but not until the economy is adjusted to include everyone.
            I think he has the right Ideas to help everyone as much as helping immigrants by limiting how many can come so the situation does not turn dire for the American Public.
            Can you really blame him about the terrorist countries? He wants to protect US from those things and even though there are some already in the country, and citizens that do terrorist evil themselves.
            I would think people would appreciate that he wants to protect them. What other reason could be more reasonable why Trump would do that? If anything I would think it would make people feel safer from what is happening everywhere else in the world.
            I can’t say he’s the best selection, but at least he is focused on the best for the US. Hilary has been exposed as a traitor being involved with the Arabians herself. From what I’ve read she was preparing to sell off a lot of America to the Arabs. I know there were some questionable things they are investigating and it sounds like she might be charged for some of it, if she doesn’t pay herself out of trouble. (Rich people do that)

            But that is all my own opinion. I was not in the country when we voted and was not in a position to know enough to vote. Some things in life take precedence when you are dealing with other people’s situations. so I have only been reading about everything since after the inauguration really.

          • Dr_Gonzzzo

            Trump has a habit of harming people. And he seems to get off of it.
            His first executive order harmed the REAL owners of the land .- the Standing Rock Sioux tribe.
            His first military order harmed more than 30 civilians, more than a dozen kids, the killer pilot and a 70 million dollar plane.
            Drone strikes and drone kills has massively increased under Trumpf.
            He has been giving 100 billion USD in weapons to ISIS that made it – the Saudis so they can continue to kill Yemenis in Allah’s name.
            His tax plan will raise taxes and hurt the middle class while it lowers the taxes for the rich,.
            Who has to pay for that? Poor people! Trump is in a position to dismantle Social Security and sign over that whole lot to his Wall Street cronies.
            He thinks that transgender people are not fit to serve in the army when he was dodging the draft due to an alleged ijnury.
            He wants to violate the Iran treaty to get an excuse to play Rambo president.
            He still has the so called “Patriot” Act there. Gitmo is still open. Killer cops still get away with murder. Private prisons are being filled with people who shouldn’t be there.
            He claims to be Christian, yet treats refugees and poor people worse than animals.
            Not to mention the fact that he has been impeachable since day 1.. He has the same kinds of conflicts of interests as Hillary had.
            And they both have committed massive election fraud to get elected. Hillary used the same tactics against Bernie’s voters as republicans have used against minorities since Jim Crow. He spends more time on the gold course than doing actual work. Remember when he trashed the half black guy with an Arabic middle name for the times he spent on the golf course? Not to mention that both he and his mail order bride has milked the tax payers in a record number on their private luxuries. Trump’s Mar-A-Lago has become Trump’s personal money machine as long as he spends time there.
            Trump is not making America “great again”..As if it ever were “great”…
            He is making America STUPID again..
            Drowned in debt and oil spills as the fume of “clean coal” fills the lungs of our kids being forced to drink inflammable water..
            As a European… If any RWer is claiming that Drumpf represents American values and the minds of every American…I say…. Seek help!
            You are making the immigrant nation funded on ethnic cleansing and slavery look like a freakshow on a bad acid trip!

          • Eldrida Urika

            As to Trump. Everyone has an opinion and people very rarely agree about anything to do with Trump.
            I was taught the old lessons about what is proper to discuss and those three things were sex, religion and politics. I am on a Christian board so that allows me to discuss my religion. The world has so much different views about the word “sex” it is impossible to avoid the subject.
            But Politics I can’t discuss as all I have is my own opinion, and considering how rude you are to people here, I do not want to know what you are telling me because you do not give me (or anyone else here) the respect they deserve and so what you say is probably rude and demeaning to him just as you are to others.
            I firmly believe that we want to be treated the way we want to be treated and the way you are going from one post to the other to attack everyone is not how I want to be treated. So I will treat you with respect, although that is questionable at this point, because I feel deserving of others respect especially when you did not confirm that I agree with anything you said or not. I have been referred to as a Reasonable Christian, and I have also been told I am a Christian who walks the walk, and talks the talk, which is a reference to being as much like Jesus as I possibly can and stick to the scriptures even if other people do not. I am not a judge of others, as I sin as well.
            The issues of gays and transgenders has been discussed here on this board and you are welcome to find my posts about those things.
            So before you fire all guns next time, how about checking out your target and doing some research before attacking in the first place.
            Unless your attitude changes I do not want to have any discussions with you. I am an elderly woman and I have had a life where I have earned the respect I am shown and I treat everyone else with respect and I treat them with respect, otherwise I do not continue any discussions at all.
            By the way, I didn’t grow up religious so you can forget that I don’t know more than the bible about the world. I’d lived a good portion of my life without the aid of the Bible and Jesus (knowingly), and have a wide understanding of a lot of the ways of the world. I am able to understand both the Christian and the Non Christian views so it helps when I am teaching some non Christians about Salvation too.
            Now, I hope you understand that you jumped and had your pants get caught by the barbed wire, with your pants at your ankles. Try not to do that anymore, OK?
            Blessings!

          • Dr_Gonzzzo

            I give you Christians all the due respect you give others…
            When this Christian forum is fuming with anti-LGBT rhetorics masqueraded as Christians, they get what is coming to them.
            When your fellow Christians calls LGBT veterans perverts and mentally ill people not capable of serving their country or making decisions regarding their own lives…
            Do you expect that normal people with a normal sense of justice and fairness will sit back and let Christian fundies do hate speech in the name of your false religion`?
            That’s right” Your entitre ideology is a man made cult for social control and coercion of Jews to convert to Christianity!
            If you think that is being rude.. I guess telling the TRUTH is an ugly thing in the ears of people who do not want to hear it.
            Telling the truth is not being rude.
            Telling the truth is being fair.
            Telling you the truth about the cult and the fraud that acts as your president and the culture that has brainwashed you since childhood is showing the highest form of regard..
            And to be fair and a bit arrogant,.. neither you or anyone of your fellow Christians have a single thing to teach me about Jesus. The only thing you have taught me is the sickening arrogance of thin skinned fake Christians who think you have a single thing with your savior..
            The only thing you have taught me is how painfully little anyone of you have with your messiah and how thin skinned most of you are. No qualms about giving other people dirt, and yet demands respect in return. Not that I displaued any disrepsect to you by being direct about the the biggest fraud in USA ever since a bunch of white slave owners wanted to be free in 1776 and commit genocide.
            Wanna walk the walk? Then turn the other cheek and let gays marry and leave transgender people alone!
            Wanna be treated with respect and that you have any idea what you are on about
            Start quoting Matthew 19:2 to defend gays and transgender people’s right to exist and thrive in the stolen land called USA!

          • Eldrida Urika

            No you do not. You have not shown me a tittle of respect in your attacks on Christianity – not once. I told you I was not the typical Christian and my beliefs are different as well as my behavior towards all those thing that I disagree with that other religions feel is the right way to behave.
            AS I have said, if you can discuss MY Religion WITH me instead of insisting you know me and what My Personal beliefs are. You obviously do not know me or what my view is at all. So stop acting like all Christians are the same when they ARE NOT.
            You have no clue what I think and behave like towards ANYONE so get off your high horse and get with it.
            I did actually defend the gays right to have Equal Rights when they were taking their stand. So there you go stop thinking that I MUST believe the way YOU THINK I believe because you do not speak like you know what I think or how My religion believes or anything that is worth anything.
            OH you are one of those who blame everything that has ever happened in history all on Christians because you hate them so much.
            These things are YOUR PREJUDICES so you are saying to be as I say not as I am.
            If you want respect I suggest you show it or you wont have it.
            Why should I treat you with respect when you show me none?
            Instead I’d rather just walk calmly away and Thank the LORD my God that I can choose not to talk to the HATERS of this world. I am now walking away from your disgusting negative attitude that has nothing to do with respect in ANY way.

          • Dr_Gonzzzo

            Where have I attacked Jesus?
            where have I attacked his views on gays?
            Where have I hated on his Sermon on the Mount?
            What is it about your sky god to admire and worship? Why does your god deserve blind faith and willing slaves to do his bidding without free will?

            And what is so Christ like about you?

            When American Christianity is worshipping consumerism and bashing gays than feeding the poor and sheltering the homeless, healing the sick… You know you are a fundie.
            When one Christian defends another Christian by claiming that his hatred for LGBT people is condoned by Jesus, you know you are a fundie… ‘or at least a fundie apologist.
            When you state that only Christians are spiritual, you know you are a fundie.
            When you spend more time pretending to be a victim when critized and having your beliefs challenged, and cries about it rather than actually standing up for what you believe in and what you think Jesus stood for, you know you are a fundie with no core values.,
            When you support bombing countries with brown, non-Christian kids, but refuse to give safe haven to the surviving kids….you know you are a fundie.
            When you spend more time making excuses and accuses people for being haters than explaining why you either support your tax payer funded war crimes or fail to stand up against it as a Jesus follower.
            When you support tax cuts for the extremely rich and zero tax on megachurches and think that food-stamps and healthcare is an evil socialist handout to the undeserving poor, you know you are an American fundie.
            When you attack other relligions for being flawed, false or evil, you might be an American fundie.
            when you care more about the pointed criticism of your fellow fundies and the flaws of your own dogmas and think you are personally slandered, you might be an American fundie. A thin skinned ne.
            When you voted for an orange man baby who has pandered to the prejudices and sensitivities of televangelists rather than voting for the -Liberal Jewish guy who travelled around talking about helping the poor, feeding the hungry, healing the sick, give the homeless shelter, ending wars and treating everybody equally because you play team Red vs. Team B, you know you are an American fundie.
            When you cannot let your argument and alleged “deeply held religious faith” hold their own on their own merit, I do not think that your so called faith goes very deep. In, fact, I am convinced that most of you in here are so insecure in your own beliefs that you need a safe space where those fragile belief systems won’t be challenged.

            As far as your fellow fundies goes…they seem to use every quote in the book NOT relevant to gay or transgender people whatsoever to avoid dealing with the one verse that kills their argument…

            Matthew 19:11-12

          • Eldrida Urika

            Considering what I told you about myself – which shows plainly that I am not a Christian that agrees with anything that harms ANYONE. Those things you are aiming at Christians are not for me just because I am NOT the same as some of the Christians here. You are challenging someone who is just going to tell you That MY JESUS would not APPROVE of a lot of the things I see others do, but it is NOT my place to tell them off about it. I do try to discuss it but as you say they are not ones that can support their beliefs with scriptures and won’t even confirm what I say so Yes, they do have problems with their faith if they can’t make a good stand on why they have the belief. The thing is I do have very strong faith and no one can change that. Not your complaints about OTHERS or anything else. You obviously do not read replies or you would know that what I said about these things and would not have said this to me.
            So Lay off of me and go find one of the Fundies to annoy instead. They are the ones you are talking about, not me.

          • Dr_Gonzzzo

            He did invite her to his wedding.
            Used to be golf partner with his fellow sexual predator Bill…

          • Dr_Gonzzzo

            Don’t know about you Christians… But I cheered for the liberal Jew who travelled around speaking of helping the poor, healing the sick, ending wars and treating everybody equally…
            Who did you support? The orange wet dream of every fraud who call themselves televangelists?
            P.S.Calling someone who eats from the same Wall Street and oil trough as the Orange Messiah a socialist does not make one look very smart, nor educated..,.

          • Ron

            Too late. Obama already served two terms.

          • Silas Jennings

            He was a kind man and a true statesman.

          • Dr_Gonzzzo

            How was he a true statesman? How has Obama made USA and the world a better place?
            Gitmo still open?
            War on drugs still going on?
            Has gun violence ended?
            Has USA withdrawn from the 200 army bases you have around the world?
            ‘Does everybody have healthcare?
            Decent wages been reinstated?
            College become affordable?
            Has money been taken out of politics?
            Did he give republicans 98% of all they want, and gave nothing to his progressive base – the ones Hillary thought she was owed loyalty from?

          • Silas Jennings

            He could address a crowd without turning into a shrieking, raging maniac.
            He didn’t take to Twitter to have his meltdowns. He didn’t use Twitter at all in fact.
            He was liked by other world leaders.
            He didn’t bring us to the brink of nuclear war with loose-lipped insults.
            I’d like to know how Trump is going to make any of the things you mentioned better. He’s only making it worse. As if Trump’s going to give everyone healthcare!

          • Dr_Gonzzzo

            Continued Bush jr.s drone wars.. Expanded the war in the Me by destroying Libya and Syria under false pretenses.
            Prosecuted and tortured whistle-blowers who tried to use the chain of command..
            Continued Bush Jr’s tax policy for the rich.
            Lack of will to push for universal healthcare and served you a rotten republican plan promoted by ‘Nixon and cooked together by the Heritage Foundation…

            What Trump is doing is basically the same as his predecessors abroad… But with the temperament of a petulant child with Tourette’s….
            The good things Barry O did was the Iran deal…. And eventually “evolved” into acknowledging that also LGBT had citizens rights for their tax dollars.
            What Obama did is basically the same as his republican peers. He just did it with a smile and an ounce of charm and the perception of having human emotions.

          • Silas Jennings

            Even if any of this was true, and I’m not saying it is, it’s a drop in
            the bucket compared to what Trump gets away with in a week. This is the gambit I notice over and over…it’s always a diversion of the “pay no attention to the man behind the curtain” variety.

          • Dr_Gonzzzo

            Whataboutism is not what I call a valid argument.
            So what was false about any of my statements?
            Any of them untrue?
            If so, which ones?

          • Silas Jennings

            To be honest it all sounds like ultra right-wing conspiracy nonsense.

          • ppp777

            At true reprobate , like you .

        • Amos Moses – He>i

          hint …. i did not elect him …… so …. fail ………

      • Eldrida Urika

        If you are going sane, that means you are already INsane. so you don’t have to go there, you are already there!

      • Silas Jennings

        No, you think penguins and kangaroos swam to Noah’s Ark. Nothing sane about that whatsoever.

        • Amos Moses – He>i

          you have no evidence to support that they did not …… nor any evidence that is where they started out there …………..

          • Silas Jennings

            A boat with the dimensions required couldn’t even float, it would break apart from the stress. But we never got to have that part of the conversation since you lost me at the hopping/swimming to the Ark from Antarctica and Australia part.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            again …. already proven that it is EXACTLY the dimension that would be required to be stable ……. FAIL …………

          • Silas Jennings

            BS sonny. There is no proof.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            live in darkness then …. you have yet to provide ANY evidence ….

          • Silas Jennings

            You were the one called on to provide it after you insisted the proof was there. And then you failed to provide it.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            modern ships are built to almost the EXACT dimensions …. the design used is SCIENTIFICALLY sound …. your assertion is not ……….

          • Silas Jennings

            You clearly didn’t read the RationalWiki article then. Or did, and chose to believe they were lying to you.

          • ppp777

            You mean you don’t want proof .

          • Silas Jennings

            Of course I want proof, but “my 2000 year old holy book says” is not proof.

          • Silas Jennings

            And once again you FAIL to provide even a SHRED of evidence, you WANKER.

          • Eldrida Urika

            Telegraph co uk
            Title: Noahs Ark would have floated even-with-70000-animals
            There you go Scientific PROOF

            Google it

          • Silas Jennings
          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you are the one here making claims without evidence ……. you came here spoiling for a fight …… you want proof ….. start by providing some for your unfounded assertions ……

          • Silas Jennings

            I didn’t come here spoiling for a fight. I wasn’t even talking to you. You started talking to ME.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            sure …. whatever you need to tell yourself …… you made the statements ….. you FAILED to back them up…..

          • Silas Jennings

            I failed at nothing.

          • ppp777

            They were pre flood times , the earth was very different then .

        • Eldrida Urika

          Nope. God brought them to Noah and they had no problem with transportation.
          You actually do not have proof of what you say considering it is not said in the bible that the animals made it to the Ark without God’s power being the way. He’s the one that wanted to preserve the animals, not humans. He’s omnipotent and can do anything to create the right things to happen.
          You see it is your disbelief that will always prevent you from seeing the Truth of God’s Word. So I don’t think you will ever understand OR believe that the Lord exists no matter how many times He might try to show you.
          Not much of a discussion from your disbelief and unnecessary mocking of our beliefs. There is no reason to mock another person unless you are intending to hurt them. That’s what my belief is.
          So if you have beliefs that you would prefer that others not mock, whether here or somewhere else, you should consider treating people the way you want to be treated. That isn’t just a bible verse it is how people are able to get along.
          I have a belief, and you have your belief, or disbelief, and we don’t agree, but it isn’t necessary to mock others, it isn’t like mocking is a reasonable thing to do if you want to influence someone either.
          All mocking is intended to do is hurt. nothing else. It won’t convince anyone that you are right, it won’t make a difference to anyone who is faithful, so why mock instead of seriously discuss?
          Even most Atheists that come here try to talk with us rather than just be ignorant.
          I would like to read the posts with out someone needing to be mean to someone else – especially since it is the majority of the people on this site you are mocking.
          Apparently you are not here to discuss, you are here to hassle Christians about their beliefs just because you don’t have the same beliefs. Is that how you get kicks? Out of making your beliefs arrogantly “better” than our own by mocking ours. All that does is show you are the kind of person who is a bully without the intelligence to use your words to encourage a different view (yours) if you want people to listen to you Bullies tend to act like they are big and strong and think they are above other people, when they really are not at all. The lack of the ability to orate you disbelief and way you mock is a sign of not knowing the words to express yourself properly.
          I suspect however that you are able to articulate your belief quite well, and are not reflecting that by mocking other people. If you recognize what I am trying to say in this post, without reacting before you read all of it, you will be able to show others why you believe the way you do (don’t?) and let them try to tell you their belief and show you why they believe it and maybe you will both come to some understanding about each belief that will widen your (and their) view to learn that we should all respect that we have others opinions, or beliefs, but it is not something that has to be a problem. It does not have to mean others need to mock people for having a different view any more than anyone should mock the transgenders or gays because it a show of intolerance and discrimination. You mocking our belief is no different than others mocking their belief that they are gay or transgender and they had to make a law against those being mocked so people can be arrested for mocking them in public now.
          I actually expect because of your approach that you will likely be banned as your behavior is much worse than most that have been banned before.
          Christians generally -not all – do not appreciate being mocked on a site they come to to opine about the way the world is going, any more than a person on any comment board appreciates people who mock their comments. So as far as I am concerned, I’ve said my peace with you and you can take it or leave what i said, but it won’t make a difference to how people will not listen to you because of how you treat them, not because of ignorance, but because of our faith in things you don’t understand to be able to have faith in.
          You are the one in this case who is very wrong in your actions and our defense of our belief is not going to change because you mock us. IT JUST WON”T. Think it over.

          • Silas Jennings

            I am only mocking what is physically impossible. Many Christians, if not most, still find value in those passages in the Bible because they are read as allegorical and not literal.

          • Eldrida Urika

            Well, please don’t mock us. It sounded like you were mocking our belief in the Ark not the physically impossible. Thank you for clearing that up for us.
            In the way I have been taught to understand the bible, there are some things that are metaphorical, and things that ARE to be taken more literally.
            We don’t believe in Evolution providing us with the animal world, plus the fact that we believe our Lord cannot lie, it makes it part of our faith to believe that God can do all things and often showed his power to change things to better ways to benefit the people who he created.
            And as you mocked, the image of penguins and kangaroos swimming – let alone the poor giraffe! – was pretty far fetched for someone who believes in our God. God would not need to resort to anything more than putting them from one place to another, almost like the transporter in Star Trek, so they could go into the Ark – by God’s guidance – and be saved from the floods. All the other animals were said to be destroyed in the flood so he was ensuring that they would remain on the earth, instead of ‘remaking’ them. The fact that they all got along during the trip is because of the glory of our God having the power to make them. It certainly was not Noah.
            Check out the link I gave you before I saw this and you will see science show the proof that the Ark would have floated just as they say it would have. Most people who do not believe, require solid proof by scientific means, so it is a science article. Please consider what it says.
            I appreciate that it can be frustrating here when we have opposing beliefs, and I have dealt with the ones who are the most frustrating too. I also appreciate the more reasonable approach you have shown me. Thank you. I hope the way I explained it will at least help you to see we are not unreasonable about our beliefs because we do have something we believe that makes what seems to be unlikely to be able to be done, possible by Our God.
            It’s not delusion, it is belief. It’s just that some people do not have that particular belief, but a different one instead.
            A child think that if their favorite color is blue, will think either everyone’s must be, or that mommy’s and/or daddy’s will be. (sometimes must be) We by human nature are the same and when we have a belief, especially one that has improved our own lives, we want to share the belief so it will be of a benefit to others. That goes for any personal discovery about a personal belief, of any kind that helps you, and that you share so it will help others. That’s all the Christians want to do is spread the GoodNews.
            Again, Thank you for your reply.

          • ppp777

            What way would the bible have to put it to make you think it was literal .

          • Silas Jennings

            It couldn’t. Snakes and donkeys cannot talk. You cannot survive in the belly of a whale, and Noah’s flood is a physical impossibility. The stories are allegorical.

  • zabazoom

    once again the prehistoric fairy tale defenders are lost

    • Maxwell Edison

      Troll. Flagged.

  • Croquet_Player

    “…as Days Grow Darker” What does axial tilt have to do with it? And why the northern hemisphere bias? In the southern hemisphere, days are growing lighter, at the same rate, for the same reason – axial tilt. You literally have to ignore half the planet to come up with this absurd headline.

    • Maxwell Edison

      Moral and spiritual.

      • Croquet_Player

        When a perceived moral and spiritual failure can have an effect on the axial tilt of the planet, do please let me know.

        • Maxwell Edison

          Really?

        • Eldrida Urika

          I just thought of a question for you. What DO you consider to be what is moral or spiritual and from what source of information? I know Aesop’s Fables show morals but I am pretty sure they go along with the same idea as the bible does.
          I believe we get morals and principles of how to behave from the people we admire the people who taught us our life lessons too.
          I know my parents came from religious parents but did not follow a particular religion when I was growing up. I am aware more now that some of the way I was taught were Christian beliefs. Our parents didn’t say they were Christian and there is no reason why we would have questioned where they learned what they taught me, other than their parents. When I was a child, I was not fully aware that my grandparents were religious, but only that my grandpa read out of a really big book when he visited with us. I learned that my upbringing and morals came from the bible in the first place when I became a believer and learned the bible. And being older when I did begin to have faith in Our Lord Jesus, means I can still see both sides of believers and non believers without a problem. It helps when I am dealing with someone who is not a believer usually because I can understand that view. I like to help others understand what our faith is actually about whenever I can and to spread the gospel as far as I can with hopes that people hear the whole thing, and not just bits and pieces from someone else. I believe that there are people who, when they understand the gospel and the intentions behind it, they are more likely to understand and agree (believe) with it, if they are helped to understand. Without that help it just gets confusing for people.
          I’m just curious about it because you called it a ‘perceived’ moral etc. But I’d appreciate knowing something when I have a question. Thanks in advance!

          • Croquet_Player

            This is an entirely reasonable question, asked very politely, and I hope you’ll forgive me that I can’t answer it right now because I’m swamped with household matters, but maybe tomorrow I can sit down and give it all the attention and thought it very rightly deserves. I just didn’t want you to think I’m ignoring you, I hope you understand, and I’m very sorry for the delay.

          • Eldrida Urika

            Croquet Player, are you sure you aren’t a Christian, as you do show the Fruits of them. (Just in case – that’s a compliment) You are very kind to let me know. I usually can’t expect it when I can’t get on so I can’t always answer until I can get back online. But I appreciate that you offered an explanation before I could wonder.
            TBH I am used to people not replying at all, or a while after I posted. Some people hate it when I hit them with logic and reason along with scriptures.
            I look forward to seeing your post when I get home from church or when ever you are able, it is not a problem. Your life is much more important than a comment board reply.
            Blessings and Thank you!

          • Croquet_Player

            “What DO you consider to be what is moral or spiritual and from what source of information…”

            First, let’s separate “moral” from “spiritual”. I find the word “spiritual” to be very ambiguous. You ask a hundred people what it means, you’ll get a hundred different answers. I’m sure you have your own idea when you use the word, but I don’t know what it is. So I can’t really address it.

            As far as “morality” goes, I prefer to think of matters in terms of ethics. I live in a society which could be represented by expanding concentric circles, me, my family and friends, coworkers, acquaintances, neighbors, everyone who lives in my city, my country, and the rest of the planet. These people all matter to me to varying degrees. I care about their welfare, and mine. I have compassion and empathy. (Some people don’t, they’re called psychopaths.) I also have reason, which enables me to evaluate different situations. (For example, I’m not going to hold a five year old to the same standard I would hold an adult.) I would like to live in a society that operates as fairly as possible, and provides opportunities for people to thrive. This benefits me, and benefits the people I care about (and who care about me too). So a “me-first” approach is out, (and frankly, quite distasteful to me personally). I use the best information I have available to make judgements on how I should behave, and how others should behave in order to accomplish that. It’s pretty simple.

            I think most religious texts are an early approach to getting people to lead ethical lives and form functioning societies which operate fairly for members. Unfortunately they don’t get updated as new, better information becomes available, and that’s a problem. Another problem is different people’s interpretation of the texts, which vary so widely. And finally, I don’t find the evidence presented for deities, or the “supernatural” to be credible, so that doesn’t work for me as a reason to do, or not do, something. So I do not rely on religious texts as a basis for my thinking. Equipped with reason and evidence, I try to do the best I can.

          • Eldrida Urika

            I wrote the reply once and lost it before I could post it. sigh
            Oddly enough CP you have the outlook that all Christians should have.

            We are supposed to behave in proper manners and not stand out because of bad behavior but for the goodness we display.

            The bible is for all generations for use in our lives.

            It is written with help for all sorts of problems with the world IF you have been taught to use it as a guide.

            Jesus gave the multitudes his lessons by talking about the things that were familiar with them, but not the same way he would tell a different area because those things would not help the next place to understand his lessons. He showed us that we need to reach to people in different ways that appeal to their comfort zone, because that is what it is for Faithful Christians. We have a comfort zone too, set in place by our belief in the lessons in the bible about our lives. When we deal with people who we see as sinning a sin we know will be extremely hard for them to overcome, with the Faithful, it makes me feel like I want to let them know there is another way, but I do not believe in harassing anyone about the way they live, with sin or not, because Jesus told us to make sure they know the offer of salvation properly, and leave them alone to make the decision themselves. By knowing the offer, even if they do not decide to try to change, right then, many people do during the harder times if they know about it properly.

            Jesus did not tell us to PUSH our beliefs on others; he said to tell them and let them choose for themselves.

            He wants all to come to him willing, and he does not want people to come for any other reason.
            So you see, I believe the same way you do, for the same reasons, but for me it is my belief in Jesus that shows me to live like that.
            You have the same way of looking at things as I do, as a Christian, except you don’t think of sin as something that harms others the way we do. That’s fine, but you should understand that even though I do look at sin differently, that I have different reasons for wanting to help those people overcome their sin.
            I have no objection to everyone having equal rights regardless of their perceived sin by Christians. How everyone should have what they need to be able to live like everyone else. Even God still takes care of sinners who do not believe. He can’t deny himself. (that’s said in scriptures LOL!) If he still loves the sinners, then we must too, but not like some say they do. It is not showing love to shame someone in public like they did to Jesus. He was shamed so we would not have to be.

            CP he wants us to be outstandingly good people who help others to see the goodness of who we follow. We are never to show bad behavior toward anyone Ever.

            So the view of Christianity that you seem to express is missing some understanding because of the Christians you know about, I expect. The rest of us work humbly and don’t want to glory for ourselves. We give all glory to God, and stand out by our good behavior. The ones that show bad behavior are not following Jesus as closely as they should.
            I have to go but I will try to remember to come back to finish my reply for more of your post. Blessings!

          • Croquet_Player

            “So the view of Christianity that you seem to express is missing some
            understanding because of the Christians you know about, I expect.” Just to be clear, I didn’t take any position on Christianity in particular. You asked me to explain my view of where “morals and spirituality”originate, and I did my best to answer, speaking only for myself. Please don’t assume that I’m not religious because I might know some bad religious people. I know plenty of good religious people too. I simply don’t find deity claims credible, which is a different matter entirely, and in no way limited to Christianity.

          • Eldrida Urika

            sorry I was trying to finish it too quickly before I went out that day. I guess I didn’t spend the time to make sure I understood the way your wrote it. I apologize for that.
            Ok I will try not to assume what I don’t understand. please correct it if I make that error again.

            I think it was the way you sounded like you are not impressed with religion that made me feel you were not currently a Christian. A former Christian can have different views from other’s beliefs, right, so I was trying to give you another view of it I guess.

            Ok you still have a lot of Christian aspects to the way you believe about morals and Ethics which probably came from your roots in religion that were not obvious to me, and I was talking about those in particular. The spiritual side was what I wanted to come back to post about.

            First, let’s separate “moral” from “spiritual”. I find the word “spiritual” to be very ambiguous. You ask a hundred people what it means, you’ll get a hundred different answers. I’m sure you have your own idea when you use the word, but I don’t know what it is. So I can’t really address it.

            I didn’t know there could be another understanding of spiritual if you are discussing the Spirit of the Lord.
            I guess it is like understanding what a soul is, as a Soul is spirit too. So spiritualism to me is how our soul spirit affected by the Spirit of the Lord. It’s about a feeling beyond what is the normal feelings of being made of flesh and blood. It isn’t a ‘body’ per se, it is what people think of as Ghosts, to give the best image of it. But the spirit is not necessarily ever seen, and actually most do not even feel the spirit.
            To me I guess because I do feel I have had proof of God’s existence, I feel that it is his spirit that helps me see what God has done in my life that I would not see if I did not believe in God’s spirit. It opens my eyes in ways that I would not have imagined possible to the things around me and in my life.
            It helps me keep calm in troubled situations, it helps me see the way to change something sometimes, and the way things Have been changed and how it will make a difference to my life.

            I guess understanding spirituality is from believing in God with such Faith and Trust that it goes beyond what I know without God in my life like it used to be. I lived without God for the majority of my life, but I’ve come to know him well and his Word well, and it helps me to go through my life without as much stress and I can handle being where people are so beyond the Christian view so I do not behave badly or try to avoid them as I want them to know the things I know about God and have their lives improve like I have.

            If there is belief, and faith in your heart about God, he will show you that he is real, but you have to look for those things in your life or they will be missed for lack of believing they are showing in your life. A lot of people think things are coincidence rather than the Lords involvement but there are some that have No other explanation but God. I no longer think things are coincidents because I know that God can has made a difference in my life and the things that might look to be coincidences are not to me.
            I hope I directed this one better for you. If not please tell me and I’ll ask more questions so I understand better than I do this round. OK! Blessings!

          • Croquet_Player

            “So spiritualism to me is how our soul spirit affected by the Spirit of the Lord.” O.k, well, as I said, I don’t find evidence for deities to be credible, so it would follow that I wouldn’t attribute anything to a “soul spirit” or “Spirit of the Lord, which, as you describe them, appear to be religious beliefs of yours.

            “If there is belief, and faith in your heart about God, he will show you
            that he is real…” That seems like a bit of a quandary. I’m afraid I am unable to generate belief first, in the hope or expectation of evidence later. “…but you have to look for those things in your life or
            they will be missed for lack of believing they are showing in your life.” Again, this strikes me as putting the cart before the horse. I would first need to have credible evidence that something exists, and that it could potentially have an effect on my life, before I could reasonably attribute any effects on my life to it.

            I hope you understand that I realize you are a person of faith, and your faith is important and meaningful to you. And while the reasons you give for your beliefs are sufficient for you, and I certainly think you are being truthful to me about them, they are not sufficient for me.

          • Eldrida Urika

            See that is why you can’t believe. You need evidence that you can see and we base it on learning about God in the bible and believing, trusting and having faith is from what we read and believe.
            It is exactly why God doesn’t stand up and shout “HERE I AM!!” He wants us to believe he is real before we can see evidence that he is. He wants us to allow ourselves to trust him because of the way he dealt with the people and then how Jesus came and helped us to learn what a Christian was to follow to be the best people we can be. (if only all Christians would follow it!)

            I do understand you are not fighting as you have only shown respect to me about our differences. I appreciate the fact that you were willing to let me “preach” with hopes of giving you more understanding.
            Maybe some day you will have the proof you need, and you will understand it better.
            I pray regularly for someone to read my posts and that they will help people better understand, if not help them to believe. But I am not expecting everyone to have that happen, by any means, I’d just be happy with a few being able to turn to Jesus and feel like I do about the Lord.
            Thank so much for the discussion. I’d love to discuss more, if you have anything you want to. We pretty much agree on the morals/ethics and only have the difference of belief in God at this point. I’m always happy to consider people like you as a friend, because of our discussion. Blessings to you and yours always.

          • Croquet_Player

            I hope you realize you’re not the first person who has tried to get me to believe in the Christian faith. I’ve read the bible, I attended religious schools, and I’ve had plenty of education and indoctrination on the topic. So I don’t think it’s a matter of “not understanding”. I understand the claims and justifications perfectly well. It’s just that I don’t find the claims credible. But thank you for being so polite as you explain your faith to me, that’s very kind of you. And I wish you and yours the very best.

          • Eldrida Urika

            I wasn’t sure of your background but I started having suspicions by the way you said a few things.
            I have no problem with anyone’s beliefs, and am always appreciative of good discussion. I am sorry I was involved with trying to explain it and did not realize.
            It’s too bad that you have not seen the signs of god in your life, but it is only for believers and that counts you out I’m guessing. I believe that everyone has the free will to choose so I will not go on about that.
            I didn’t really try to get you to believe in the Christian faith so much as tell you about my own belief so if anything is different to yours, you can consider it. That’s all I ever do, as if it is not you I am teaching, it will be the ones that read the explanation as silent posters.
            Blessings, and I am sure we’ll meet again.

    • ZappaSaid88

      Good one!

    • Karlov

      Look up “allegory.” Hopefully, then you’ll understand.

      • Croquet_Player

        I get it. Look up “sloppy journalism”.

        • Eldrida Urika

          I’ll try to explain…
          It’s a Christian view of the world becoming more sinful than ever.
          Darkness is a term used to mean Evil, with Light being Goodness.
          So by saying it like that, they are saying that by putting sinful people in office, it is like making darkness more prominent than the light.
          Hope that clarifies it for you! Blessings!

          • Croquet_Player

            No kidding.

          • Eldrida Urika

            You may have understood before I explained it, but others might not have.

      • WM1

        Clearly…not likely.

    • Amos Moses – He>i

      must have your head on an “axial tilt” ………. “You literally have to ignore half the planet” …. You literally have to ignore literature ……..

      • Tonya Elise

        You are Literally a MORON. The is Science North gets darker and the south get lighter . That is what most intelligent call how the Seasons cal about (Winter and summer).

        • Amos Moses – He>i

          “You are Literally a MORON.”

          sure …….. whatever ….

          “The is Science North gets darker and the south get lighter . That is what most intelligent call how the Seasons cal about (Winter and summer).”

          sure …. whatever ………

  • Lark.62

    For decades, republicans have used culture wars to drum up votes. Fear of immigrants. Contempt for the poor. Discrimination against gay people and trans people. And all the while they flaunted their self proclaimed moral superiority.

    Lies can only be maintained for so long. The wholehearted support evangelicals give to the corrupt, russia loving, pussy grabber in chief make every claim of moral superiority a lie. As people realize that some of their family, friends, neighbors and co-workers are gay or trans, and that these people are just like everyone else, the sky is falling fear mongering is exposed as a lie. As people see the depths evangelicals will go to to deny health insurance to the poor, their black hearts are exposed.

    The good people of Virginia had a clear choice between a man who bragged that he is “Virginia’s Chief Homophobe” and a woman who cares about transportation and other matters of substance. They realized her personal life simply does not matter. Fear mongering is a waste of time. What matters is doing the job and representing all constituents.

    Sooner or later, dinosaurs go extinct.

    • 1luisa

      I am a woman. Daniel “Danica” Roem is not. This is misogyny at its end result. A man can compete in athletic games against me, join clubs for women, compete with me for jobs, and run against me as a woman for office.. The glass ceiling just got lower and harder to break when a man can be a woman cause he says so. Woman have tried really hard to break away from men and hold their own only to be pushed aside by men saying they are women and being treated as such. This is Patriatchy and Misogyny 21st Century style.

      • Lark.62

        If you live near Route 28 in Manassas Virginia, you would care that Ms. Roem plans to work to solve the traffic problems on that road. You would also know that Del. Marshall has been too absorbed with bathroom bills and vaginal probe bills to worry about traffic or schools.

        Ms. Roem won because she cares about what the people in her district care about. And the voters showed they simply don’t care about her private life, or her privates.

        You are not harmed by the fact that Ms. Roem exists. It’s time to grow up and move on.

        • 1luisa

          A man says he is a woman and I whom am a woman must shut up and move on. I am not harmed. I need to know my place. I am just a silly immature woman who needs to move on because a MAN says I had better accept it and deal with it. Mr. Roem is a Ms. cause he in his male dominance says he is. Ladies are gonna lose. We always do when a man bullies us. They are physically stronger and can take us down. I had better accept Daniel Roem as Danica cause he says he is. Nice. Ladies our day is over.

          • Maxwell Edison

            Yep. If I ever decided I wanted to be a woman named Maxine, I immediately and automatically have more rights than you. I don’t care about your safety or security; my want to be comfortable supercedes that. And if you complain, that only means there’s something wrong with you.

          • 1luisa

            Bingo! Us ladies were wrong. Feminism is just as bad as misogyny and got us back to square one, but far worse. Ladies this is the end result. We were wrong. We were wrong.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            misled i think is more accurate ……….

          • Lark.62

            Your claim that trans women are somehow privileged is bizarre.

            Trans women are victims of physical assault at rates far exceeding any other demographic. In nearly every city and every state, trans people can legally be denied housing, denied employment, fired from jobs, and refused service in places of business for simply being trans. No one can deny you any of those things for being a woman, or for being a christian. Everywhere in the country, you are protected by federal law against discrimination based on sex and discrimination based on religion. With very few exceptions, there is no legal prohibition on discriminating against trans people. Trans people are unemployed and homeless at far higher rates than the general population, because it is completely legal to refuse to sell or rent a home to trans people, and it is completely legal to refuse to hire trans people. Homelessness and unemployment.

            And we are all supposed to feel sorry for poor little you? Really?

            This is not about male dominance. That claim is nonsense. Ms. Roem is just a person who was elected because voters thought she would do a good job. You are not harmed because another person is successful and competent.

            I am a woman. I have thought about this. I have no problem with live and let live. I can accept Danica and treat her with respect. I have no problem with the fact that I will likely use the same restroom as a trans woman. I am not harmed because other people exist.

            As more people meet trans people, they realize that they are just people. The viciousness and callousness of evangelical christians toward trans people is becoming more and more obvious. This meanness is out of sync with the claim that christian are loving, and this is causing more and more people to question the claims of christianity. The trend of people leaving christianity is on people like you.

          • 1luisa

            Hi Lark. Mr. Edison made the comment about being privileged as a Transvestite. As far as Christianity, no one naturally seeks God. We are born sinners hating God. We need to be born again. That is the issue. The real issue at hand. Paul was plain in Corinthians that drunkards, slanderers, homosexuals, etc will not inherit the kingdom and such were some of you. To be a Christian means to turn from your sin, embrace Christ, and follow him. Mr. Roem doesn’t like who he is so he is pretending to be something he is not. He is a man made in the image of God. The Imago Dei. He is fearfully and wonderfully made. He is a beautiful and handsome man. May he find peace and joy in who is .

          • Lark.62

            You made the “glass ceiling” comment.

            Have you ever sought information about trans people, what they experience or the potential physical causes?

            People used to think lots of birth defects were punishment of god. We now know that’s silly.

            Think about how you know you’re female. It is who you are – your sense of self is in your mind not in the mirror.

            The brain develops when chemicals are released in utero. The genitals develop at a different time when different chemicals are released. Every educated person knows that things can go haywire during embryonic development.

            We are still learning about embryonic development, but we know gender is determined by the brain. Some people are born with brain wiring that does not align with genitals. Those people are normal, moral people who are transgender.

            There is no reason to discriminate against trans people or to treat those people with contempt. There is no reason to blame people for chemical reactions that happened in the womb.

            Mocking people with cerebral palsy is rude. Playing pranks on blind people is rude. And misgendering trans people is rude. Being kind is how adults behave.

          • 1luisa

            Gen 1:27, Matt 19:4, Rom 1:18-32 are clear and just an example. God made man male and female and we are made in His image. I can’t be something I am not just cause I say so. Rachel Dolezal is not black no matter what she says. Learning mannerisms, social norms, mimicking hair styles, etc. doesn’t make her black. She identified as black. Everyone said she wasn’t black and vilified her. Bruce Jenner puts on a dress and gets implants so now he is a woman and a hero. You know the truth yet won’t accept it. You are suppressing it. I have good news. God does change people so that they can see the truth and embrace it in Christ. You can have a new start. God loves sinners and I am a despicable one washed in His blood. By His grace I can face reality no matter how difficult or unpleasant. He loves me and wants my eternal good. Yours too. I was blind, but now see. Because He lives I can face another day just as I am. How He made me. A black woman from the ghetto. A black woman from the ghetto who is a sinner. May we be found together in glory worshipping The Lamb for all eternity. Have a great day and weekend.

          • Lark.62

            Chimeras exist. They have two sets of DNA and can have both XX and XY DNA.

            People with XXY DNA exist.

            Women who are totally female yet have XY DNA exist. Likewise men with XX DNA exist.

            Intersex people with both male and female genitalia exist.

            The premise that God makes everyone either 100% male or 100% female is clearly false. So clearly those verses cannot mean what you think they mean. The world is not as simplistic as your interpretation of those verses. This is fact.

            The brains of men and women are different from each other. Brains are physical and subject to physical variation. It is possible for a person to have brain chemistry out of sync with genitalia.

            There is no physical difference between black people and white people. There is no such thing as “black” brain chemistry. The Rachel Dolezal situation is totally unrelated to trans people.

      • Silas Jennings

        So what is a hermaphrodite then? A birth defect? Shall we write “birth defect” in the space on their birth certificate where it asks their gender?

  • ZappaSaid88

    You lost, get over it.

  • Two Men Who Identify as Women Elected to Government…
    Yep! Sounds about right. Not right as in something good and moral; but right as in the depravity and perversion that inevitably takes over and ultimately destroys a society. This transformation kicked off back in the 60s; we’ere just, now, seeing the changes happen in overdrive. It won’t be long now.

    • Amos Moses – He>i

      yep … the darkness continues to descend on ‘Merica ……….

  • mr goody two shoes

    Well it makes one appreciate Muslims more. They cut your head off any men who act like women.. .

  • mr goody two shoes

    Muslims teach the law with their swords so much better than christian people teach it by mouth when it comes to this stuff.Men acting like women.

  • Panda

    Can you people not see that immorality as a whole is destroying this country? And no I’m not just harping on sexual immorality either. Although it is the one being forced down everybody’s throats. And for you people that want to say “oh another trumptard, I didn’t vote trump nor do I condone the man himself. I do support many of his policies though that are far more American friendly than past administrations. But seriously, can someone tell me how electing someone who is a man , that pretends to be a woman is considered winning? This same man has been pushing for VA grade schools to adopt gender confusion studies telling tiny children they can choose their gender. Surely there isn’t a majority in VA that want their children confused like that. These are some of the policies that will be pushed by people that see things as he does. It’s never been about live and let live, to them it is believe as he does or you have no place in society. And before people say I’m full of hate, save it, I attempt to love all as my savior Jesus commands. But I would really love some actual feedback on how this is seen as a good choice, or considered winning?

    • This style 10/6

      You say you are not harping on sexual immorality and the proceed to harp on about sexual immorality.

      • Eldrida Urika

        He wasn’t harping about it, he was stating the Christian view. You have to read his comment with that in mind and it won’t seem like harping but like a Christian person asking about why the world thinks this is ok? Christians are confused why anyone would be like the people say they are. It makes no sense to those of us that believe God made male and female to join in marriage and be each others companions for life. It’s a way to believe and that’s not something that must be criticized as we all have beliefs or opinions about things that do not necessarily even match our friends or family. Some Christians – I believe it is the majority – are more tolerant than others too.
        He was also asking for understanding about it. I should think someone who opposes how we view these things, would appreciate that someone who is not being rude but just stating what he sees, and asking how someone could think that it was good. Asking isn’t a bad thing as it helps with understanding which is most necessary for tolerance of something people see differently.
        For the Christians that do try to show tolerance towards others, you should try to have tolerance for theirs; and honestly, there are others like myself that would not show intolerance for another person just because of their sins.
        Some people expect it to be Christians who will know how he views the beliefs that will be reading their posts, not someone who takes offense at how it is written. I’ve done the same to people who post against my faith; taken offense at something that was worded badly, and had to apologize for it when it was clear that I was wrong. It’s easy to do.
        So whether you agree or not, you have to expect to read posts here from Christians directed at other Christians for help with understanding. Just as a non-believer might as another non-believer help with understanding.
        I am not trying to be critical, just offering some information I have no idea if you are aware of (the tolerant Christians) and letting you know some posts are done for reasons that are between two of an agreed belief, and your view is not really necessary because they are looking for that one answer to their question from someone who believes. So it’s kind of like a wasted post. Better to go to a post not limited to a question, and speak out your belief in situations that more warrant a reply if you want discussion. Just offering a different way of viewing things. Blessings!

        • This style 10/6

          You: just because of their sins

          You must realise that there are many who reject this idea of sin.Homosexuality is not a sin, neither is same sex marriage. Conservative Christians are being left behind as society moves on to embrace all faiths and ways of living.

          • Eldrida Urika

            Look, once again that is a belief – one that says it is a sin, and one that does not.
            I think you are putting the numbers of Christians who are ’embracing all faiths and ways of living’ are in much less numbers than those who are living to follow Jesus. We can’t “embrace” anything that our Lord Jesus has said not to and explained to us why. If we give in to the world and it’s confusion and corruption (our opinion) we lose our hope of eternal life so it isn’t as bad as you imply. Christians don’t accept things for a reason, and cannot ignore those reasons just because someone else does not agree with them or they are going against the Christian faith.

            There seem to be many interpretations of those specific scriptures that confuse the real point the Lord was making. People who do not want the scriptures to say it is a sin, have found a way to dismiss that possibility in the way the bible went through the whole story as they want to see it that way.
            Those of us who have a different interpretation believe this, and you won’t necessarily realize they are around: We believe that it is for us to Love everyone – without exception as Jesus told us to do. We are to show love, compassion and empathy for people who are suffering for any reason, and help them to know that we have guidance to help us through those rougher times. It is always up to that person whether they choose to believe or not to. And it is up to them whether to take the chances that the consequences are real, hence the disbelief in all things that they want to do without it being with God’s guidance. If it is stated in the scriptures as “this” and you decide to do “that” in direct disobedience to His Word, it is something you are aware of is wrong and feeling you know better than God what is right or wrong.

            One belief is not supposed to “top” another belief, they are supposed to be able to work for different people in different ways.
            And when you really consider beliefs, it is an opinion that what they see as a belief is true. Opinions should be able to be tolerated as we all want the right to say them.
            Lets say in your opinion apples are better for our health than oranges, but I say that my opinion is that oranges are better not apples. It’s opinion and unless you let it, it doesn’t have to matter. People should just ignore the opinions they don’t agree with. Or they need to try to explain it in a way that others can understand it. Telling us that it is what someone “feels” that makes them transgender makes it sound something like schizophrenia with more than one personality to us – and that is us being more than just Christians. The concept is totally foreign to anyone who has had no one that is transgender (that they know of) to help them understand these ‘feelings’. We have had schizophrenia explained to us and are kind of able to at least understand the concept, but transgenderism is totally out of our expected reality and it has to be introduced without expectation of immediate acceptance or you are being unreasonable. You can’t expect everyone to agree, it’s just not a realistic way of thinking when you are offering something new to a large number of people all at once, and it’s unfair to force us to adjust any faster than we will.
            When I said that about sin, it is the way I believe and that sin is something that hurts someone else. Is that a wrong attitude towards things that can hurt someone else? It ends up being an opinion on whether it can hurt someone or not. Our view of sin is when we go against the way our Lord told us he meant for our lives to be like when he created us. Would it be better to say it is Wrong, or a sin, that can changed.
            Without believing in him being our creator, you have no reason to believe that the same things about any of our beliefs. You are not understanding that the whole point of the word sin is to help us avoid hurting ourselves or others by our actions.
            My belief is that it isn’t the sin we are supposed to be talking about without the whole salvation plan with it. We are supposed to love every one and to treat each other the way we want to be treated, so anyone who is mean or cruel in their dealings with anyone who is a sinner in their eyes is going against the commandments of Jesus.
            Unfortunately that makes them feel that they are supposed to rebuke the ones that do not believe, or the ones that do not know, about their sins.
            Jesus never rebuked the sinners for their sins. The bible shows that he didn’t do more than tell them to stop sinning.
            He did however tell us to rebuke each other when we start to sin because we understand the consequences and need support to overcome some sin.
            My thoughts of what sin is and why it is bad, is just different than yours because you don’t see that it is bad, or you just see things that are good for some and ignore the pain it can cause to others. We try to see what harm is being done too. Between our belief in God and our belief that our God is unable to be unjust about sin, it makes us have the opinion that homosexuality is a sin. When it comes to the marriage it is about believing that God made us male and female and those are the genders that he made to be the ones to fill the nations with their descendants and populate the world. He would not have created them without that purpose in mind so he would not have created the people who have not the male and female in the marriage. Again, opinion.
            I guess I’ve been taught that it should not matter what others opinions are if you are confident in your own. If you want to change their opinions it takes discussion, not insistence. I can support why I follow Jesus, so I can make a stand for that belief, but that is what anyone should be able to do with their own beliefs. The thing is it is you that has to live with everything you choose, just as it is ours. Wanting to help someone with how they feel is a better life, is not wrong unless it’s done without compassion and empathy for the other person.
            You don’t get mad and make a woman who stays in an abusive relationship feel more ashamed. You treat her with compassion and show that you can understand why she doesn’t leave but that if she doesn’t it will end up worse for her, or she will not listen to what you say. Anger has a way of making our ears blocked to what is being said.

          • Steve Sitzes

            You just proved that you have went totally against Romans 12:1 when you that you are with the group that follows society’s move to embrace all faiths and ways of living. Christians are not to be conformed to society and it’s beliefs. Also, do you realize that other faiths believe that homosexuality is a sin?

          • This style 10/6

            I don’t care what you or other faiths think; homosexuality is a normal part of the human condition. Sin, on the other hand, is just something in your head

          • Steve Sitzes

            I’m sorry, I mistakenly assumed you were a Christian.

          • Eldrida Urika

            Sin is doing something that will harm either other people, or yourself in some way.
            Is that a bad view to want to stop doing, because Jesus taught us to avoid sin because it can end badly. If we love everyone the way Jesus commanded us to, we won’t want to hurt anyone and we don’t sin to hurt anyone. We try to be good to ALL other people in my faith.
            See the thing is Jesus told us to rebuke our brethren and some Christians use that to rebuke people who do not necessarily understand what sin is or how it can affect our lives and the other people who are involved.
            In my Christian view we do not rebuke sinners because I am a sinner and how can I rebuke someone because of their sins, when I am no better than they are? Unbelievers are supposed to be spoken to with Love, compassion and empathy because we’ve all come to the same point (except those who have grown up in a faith) and it helped to know the people of the faith cared about me and encouraged me when I had problems.
            I only believe in rebuking the Saints not the ones that do not believe. I tell them if I have the chance, but I do not do more than talk normally to anyone and I avoid any hurtful speech as best I can. Sometimes I slip or I don’t know that what I say is cruel until someone tells me and helps me understand it, so I won’t make the same mistake.
            So it really depends on one’s religion that they follow on how they treat others.
            Blessings!

          • George Spain

            Live your sodomites life style but stop attempting to get others to approve of it Stop forcing your lifestyle upon those that want no part in it.. Keep it to yourself. It’s a private issue anyway.
            Prayers for you 10-6. I don’t know you but our creator does and loves you.

          • This style 10/6

            Dear me. I am heterosexual and have been married for many years.

            The acceptance of LGBTQ folk as regular citizens doesn’t mean you have to join them.

          • ppp777

            You have done by definition .

          • This style 10/6

            Sigh! Another homophobe.

          • ppp777

            More left wing rhetoric .

          • ppp777

            They are in truth reprobates , like you .

          • This style 10/6

            There is no getting through to you people who are nursing a little, black ball of hatred in your being.

          • ppp777

            People like you will burn in hell for eternity , then you will what hatred really is .

          • Dr_Gonzzzo

            Jesus never said anything in the Romans.
            You are invoking false preachers to hide behind your irrational hatred and bigotry. You sir, are no Jesus disciple. -You are a follower of false gods and false teachings which preaches hate and division. Not love, compassion and empathy. Three traits NO fundie has ever displayed, The only thing fundies knows are to use violence against transgender people and anyone not as hateful and brainwashed as you are. You start practicing compassion, empathy and non-judgmental attitudes towards vulnerable people, you get that in return. You throw out turds against people you do not think deserves to be treated with dignity and respect, you get that turd right back in your face when least expected.

          • Cal

            Dr. Gonzzzo is certainly a moniker for you. U are absolutely ridiculous!
            Transgender is a man made bullshit identity. A selfish playtoy for the mentally ill and weak minded. Gays are the same. Gay men are the most immature people I’ve met. Its mental sickness. Science has proven this. Research and read. And numb nuts like YOU choose to come across as intellectuals and side with them making normal people out to be bad. Yes I say NORMAL. Transgenders and gays don’t want to be left alone. No. They want SPECIAL treatment. And THAT is the problem. Transgenders and Gays need to deserve and earn respect. Be out on the front lines in the military in a real war taking gunfire might be a good start. But of course that is absurd in your mind. You cannot see the damage caused by allowing these misfits to demand special rights because of your bent liberal views. You are a wrong minded problem in the world. You and others like you cause havoc and stir up hate and unfairness. You actually believe these people are normal and this is not the case.

          • Dr_Gonzzzo

            Funny how religiously delusional rednecks calling others mentally ill. That is Hilarious. When you put other people down.. You expect flowers, roses and a kiss on the cheek?
            When you take a piss at our LGBTQ people, you take a piss at both science, your baby Jesus and ME!,
            so when you do so, the only kiss you and your fellow fundies who hates Jesus is a literary Glaswegian one.
            So what is your personal interest in the issue?
            What FETISH has made you obsess about how others live their lives?
            Are you a COMMIE who needs a Big State to make sure everybody conform after your standard?
            You talk about science, but fail to show any papers to back up your ill merited accusations ans disgusting pathologizing of people you know jack shit about!
            I will tell you one thing though. Transgender people are not going anywhere. They will continue to live their lives as they see fit no matter how much it drives you insane. They exist regardless of your will or not.
            Their existence does not ask for your permission. In this case, your opinion means as much as your junk science and junk religion.
            In fact, you have absolutely no say in the matter of their existence. Nor have you any say in the fact that many of them are far more sane than most fundies whose comments ‘i have read.
            k science has been discarded a half a decade agol.
            So unless you can dig up objective science to back up your bias against transgender people, by all means. If not.. Keep quiet about it.
            But keep calling ME an asshole if that makes you feel better and convinces you that it makes you a better person and that your arguments will win me over.
            Do you often call people you want to win over to your lost cause assholes?
            If you do, I presume you will never be a good diplomat for your country, your religion, your junk science or your precious Jebus who preached about treating everybody equally.
            Why don’t you take your filthy fundie fake Christian mouth and confront every transgender person you meet and tell them how to cure themselves since you obviously have figured out what is “wrong” with them?
            Just a friendly piece of advice;
            If you fundies want to avoid a thunder storm over your heads, I suggest you stop planting the smelly fart of false ideologies and lies.
            You plant a fart, you will reap a shitstorm.

          • Cal

            I told YOU to research and read. I have. Go do it. Simple web search. Type something like science proves gays mentally ill. Now…you write incoherent. What the hell does Gaelic Goric Scotts (Glaswegian) have to do with anything! I’m not a redneck. I am an asskicker. And if you think Trans people are normal acceptable then you may be one. When these misfits come into schools and demand special treatment while my children are there then they deserve at the very least vocal opposition. Miscreants. Ugly hearts is what they are. You read history…read what happens when normalcy and complacent people had enough. That is the powder keg about to explode with this and other issues. Like Wall Street continuing to reap havoc at our expense. Like corporatocracy bending rules and reaping profits while breaking laws. Taking advantage of the silent majority can only burst in civil upheaval at some point. There are far too many more important things than you going on.
            Stop posting. You are a fool.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “You must realise that there are many who reject this idea of sin”

            and rejecting REALITY does not ALTER REALITY ….. and since you have blocked me … no response …..

          • Chet

            All mankind can reject the “idea of sin” till their last breath. Yet, God’s Word remains true “For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God” Romans 3:23, Holy Bible. Men having sex with men is abomination and God has decried it so, period. And marriage, instituted by the creator of all flesh, is the bond of male and female, period. What man says is immaterial as God Almighty is the One with whom we all have to do, sooner or later. “So then, every one of us shall give account of himself to God” Romans 14:12. Society is indeed moving on and accepting of all kinds of faiths in all kinds of objects and is doing so to its own detriment and downfall. “I am The Way, The Truth and The Life: no man cometh unto the Father but by Me” John 14:6. So says the great I AM, the Holy One of Israel, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ of Calvary. Don’t be deceived…

          • This style 10/6

            You people always believe that quoting a 2000 year old text proves a point; it doesn’t unless you can show that the text has extraordinary authority.

            Same sex marriage and sex are legal. They may be a sin in your eyes and that is your business.

          • Chet

            What is and isn’t sin in my eyes means nothing to anyone beyond myself. I’m not the authority nor judge, and neither are you. God Almighty is judge of all the earth. For sure, man has declared man-devised marriage to be legal. However, God says no such thing and he will never recognize such.

            As one draws his last breath and snaps-out into eternity he will then know just who has the final say in the affairs of men. For the saved man, his troubles are all over. All his sins are forgiven, washed away in the precious blood of the Lord Jesus Christ of Calvary never to be remembered again and eternal bliss is his domain.

            For the lost, those that reject God’s love and mercy and grace as offered to all men without measure via Christ and Christ alone, well, his troubles are just beginning and will never end. Such one will open his eyes in the eternal domain of the damned, the madhouse of humanity, the place, Hell. This is the place of extreme sorrow, excruciating pain and misery where blood curdling screams, weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth abound without end… And the burning flames are never extinguished. I’ll gladly stake my eternity on God’s Word with Christ and believe all He has so written. How about yourself, how certain and prepared are you? And what is your basis of assurance?

          • Cal

            And YOU and people like you are wrong minded. Dimwitted. Uninformed. Liberal mindset have literally caused ruin in this country and now indeed others.
            You “live in the now” morally bankrupt others and have surely caused problems so deep you cannot even fathom them nor do you care to remotely consider any of it. Just click your remote…click you phone..just click your way through life..selfishly spewing absurdity as being normal and acceptable.
            I say people like you should be forced to pass intelligence test in order to keep a drivers license and to receive any welfare benefits or social security.. Be forced to serve on the front lines in war should there be one and part of these test need to be on history. Because gays and trans and all the other absurdities have no respect for history and all that this country holds dear. And that really is at the core of why normal people will never accept you misfits.

          • This style 10/6

            You again, with another rant! People like me! You have no idea what king of person I am but I will lift the curtain a little. I am not American so have no idea whether the US is ruined or not. I would venture to predict that four years of Trump might well ruin the poorer folk.

            I don’t need welfare, I have served in an army and know a fair amount about history. In short I am a normal middle class person.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “You have no idea what king of person I am”

            Hey, I thought I was the “King person” around here. 😉

          • ppp777

            Being legal does not make it right , seems you cannot think straight .

          • This style 10/6

            I think very straight; there is nothing wrong with same sex sex as long as it is between consenting adults. male or female.

            Same sax marriage follows as a normal consequence of more liberal views among the general population.

            Not all of us are ruled by the Bible or any holy text.

          • ppp777

            You are anything but liberal , you are facists thrusting your perversion down other people throats , consent between two reprobates is anything but right , you are hell bent in destroying society and future generations , but be assured , you will burn for eternity for it ,and good riddance to you .

          • This style 10/6

            Why are you suddenly replying to comments I made a week ago. Each one full of hatred for anyone who does not believe as you do.

            You seem to get it off with image of atheists burning in hell. Bully for you but your medieval ideas are not representative of today’s society which is steadily becoming more liberal and accepting of alternate life styles, even in the Trump infested US.

            There is nothing that you can do about this except nurse your hatred to your bosom where it will consume you. Why don’t you relax?

          • Cal

            Atta boy

          • Cal

            Yes homosexuality is a SIN. It is so ridiculous to see you misfits get away with posting such absurdity. Please do something productive today and everyday…look for a job. Just look. Try. But being here posting ridiculous things speaks poorly for your kind.

          • This style 10/6

            You may call it a sin but that does not make it illegal. Society is increasingly accepting of different sexuality and of the fact that sexuality is not necessarily fixed. For most of us it is, I for instance am heterosexual and always will be, but we accept the fact that others are different. Those gays and lesbians we know are responsible citizens and members of the community.

            Your warped point of view is moulded by a 2000 plus year old text. Fair enough, that is your life and no problem unless you try to make it affect other’s lives.

          • ppp777

            Its called [ the new world order ] , it is satans kingdom , and you have embraced it well , welcome to hell sonny jim

          • This style 10/6

            I happen to live in a country which is far more liberal than the US.

          • ppp777

            More demonic you mean , and its by Americas influence that you are that way , the U S are the worlds masters , never forget that fact .

          • TheKingOfRhye

            That’s really not saying all that much, honestly….

        • Dr_Gonzzzo

          Is the Christian view more about being judgemental towards eunuchs (transgender people) than greed, capitalism, land theft, and denying poor people healthcare?
          What did Jesus say about rich people compared to gays? What did he say about people who claimed to be his followers yet passed judgement on others,..like your claims that your Christianity’s most hated sins are being transgender? Where did Jesus state that transgender people are condemned for eternity of torture in Hell after a lifetime of persecution by Christians while Jerry Falwell and every other anti-gay pastor belongs side by side with Baby Jebus on Heaven? What gave you fundies that hilarious delusion?

        • Lark.62

          People used to think that being left handed was a choice, and that it was a sin. School children were punished and even beaten for writing with their left hand.

          Being left handed was a sin. And they had bible verses to back it up.
          And some people still believe this. About two years ago, a public school teacher in Oklahoma told a kindergartner that being left handed was of the devil.

          Now educated people know that being left handed is just a normal human variation with no moral implications. Writing with one’s left hand is not rebellion. Or sin. Or defiance against god. It is just how that person’s brain is wired.

          And a person is left handed from birth, even though they don’t figure out how to use their hands for a while. A left handed person is not just left handed when then write. It is who they are. They are left handed in their sleep. They are left handed even if their left hand is amputated. Scientists do not yet fully understand what causes a person to be left handed rather than right handed. But this need for more knowledge is no excuse for punishing a child for writing with their left hand.

          It is becoming clear that being gay is also just a product of brain wiring. It just is. It is not immoral or rebellious or a choice. It is just a matter of the brain being wired a certain way. A person is gay even when they are far too young to understand sex. They are gay when they sleep. They are gay if they are celibate or grow to old to have any interest in sex. There is much we don’t understand. But we know enough to know that no one should be mistreated or discriminated against because they are gay.

      • Dr_Gonzzzo

        Christians are obsessed about sex. Sexuality.. Sexual organs..Especially other peoples sex lives and body organs. It’s almost pathological how obsessed Christians are about sex.
        Goes back to when monks could study abnormal sex organs on their torture victims as they forced some false confession.

        • This style 10/6

          Just think of all those depictions of hell by Hieronymous Bosch et al; medieval porn.

          • Dr_Gonzzzo

            Heh…
            From a time when the entire existence revolved around the Church….And paintings were two dimensional..
            Mix Hieronymus Bosch with Dante Alighieri and you have hard core medieval porn.
            I sometimes wonder if Dante only wrote his Inferno just to show how ridiculous this whole idea of Hell really was…
            Unsaved people who did good deeds did not go to Heaven.. But landed in Limbo…
            People who have committed suicide landed on worse places than that.
            Same thing with Purgatory..
            But the real hard porn is for sinners who were driven by greed, anger, all the 7 deadly sins…
            All really nasty sins our Christian friends violate on a regular basis in their faux outrage against the “sin” of homosexuality and “transgenderism”..
            Read a Christian propaganda outlet, we never find articles about social injustice.. Wall Street greed.. war crimes.. How poor people exist because rich people are too busy robbing their natural resources..
            You never read any Sermon on the Mount style articles.
            The only things we can read about is how gays and transgender people are suppressing every Christian’s divine mandate to punish these “sinners”… Or how abortion is murder and Christians being persecuted in countries they want to invade.

            Looks like I have landed in a Christian snake-pit… And it was Fundies Says the Darndest Things that lead me here…And a wonderful opportunity to remind our Christian friends how deluded and wrong they are about everything.

          • ppp777

            The reality of hell is a lot worse .

          • This style 10/6

            I always suspected that some Christians got their jollies by imagining naked bodies burning in hell, being prodded with red hot forks.

            Now my suspicion is proven correct.

          • Eldrida Urika

            Why naked? They will be Spirits not human bodies. Those depictions were from old paintings . Even Jesus had to die to be able to go to hell and conquer death. Human bodies rot but our spirit can last forever.
            It says we will appear as the angels, and the non- color white is also mentioned as the angelic robes (if I remember correctly) so do you think that the people being punished will look like angels like the fallen angels/ satan with black as their robes? Lol!

    • Eldrida Urika

      I understand what you are saying. It’s hardest when we are following Jesus and wanting to love everyone the way we are supposed to, but when someone throws in a curve ball like they do when there is no allowance not just for a disagreeing opinion, but especially no allowance for our Faith. They get their way, and our way it pushed aside instead of considered just as worthy as the way they believe. Force is not how Christians view the world because we know we have free will, Bless His Name, and we have no tolerance for force, even while we are trying to be tolerant of the things that are in ‘their’ world.
      Part of the problem is how some Christians behave without the love for everyone and only thinking of how people sin so they can bully them about them to try to bring them to Jesus. Those are the Christians that the media shows when it is Christians who are making their intolerance for others shown. It’s one thing to want to tell them that there is a sin and here the story of salvation to help you understand why sin is wrong. But these Christians don’t do it with the love that Jesus told us to use to spread the Gospel. They believe that Jesus told them to, but the bible tells us to only rebuke the people who already know the consequences of sin, our brethren. Otherwise he wants us to tell unbelievers the gospel with the love we have in our hearts for Jesus and his plan. We are the ones that are supposed to be outstanding in our goodness to let others see us and see our reflection of Jesus. Yelling or rebuking and shaming people who do not necessarily know about salvation is making them resist it because of the approach they are using, and human nature.
      It’s not winning in our view because of our belief that people are not transgender or gay, and we are wary of people who go against the Word of God.
      It’s winning for them because they think it will make the world accept them and that everyone will go by what they insist they are.
      Our world is heading to the times when Jesus told us to be still and watch because the world is going to corrupt more and more before he comes. Jesus told us to go out even more to spread the gospel to bring all to be saved at this time. We can’t stop the world from it’s path, but we can keep our faith in the Lord and trust Him to take care of us while we wait for him. Our faith must be very strong to get through these times too.
      We need to ask to find out something when we do not understand or we might think that it is something else altogether. You don’t have to be hateful to have a question and you should not have to explain that. We all have the right to our opinions regardless of whether these people insist we change it or not. But when someone who is not something we are used to in any way, as they appeared practically out of nowhere when the gays won their equal rights stand riding in on the wind of 3 decades of work the gays have gone through and expects the world to jump for joy and not resist the idea that they insist we believe what they say, without even giving us the ability to adjust to their existence.
      The Fruit of the Spirit will help us through but it won’t help us understand the way the world is changing. The only way we can do that is to ask, and be careful who you ask and how you ask so you are not being misunderstood about your motives.
      Most people are reasonable when you treat them the way we want to be treated. It’s hard to be hateful towards someone who is able to ignore the hatred and still be reasonable. I hope this helps somewhat? If I missed a point, you are welcome to ask it again. Blessings!

      • Lark.62

        Your right to an opinion ends where the next person’s right to make their own decisions begin.

        I was a christian for over 3 decades, and I now have lots of opinions about Christianity. I have opinions about teaching Christianity to children.

        But I will not interfere with your ability to marry another christian. I will not interfere in your right to attend church and bring your children. I will not interfere in your purchase of vacation bible school supplies from a local store.

        You have a right to believe whatever you want about gays. You do no have a right to interfere in their relationships or their decisions.

        • Eldrida Urika

          I agree. Jesus did not tell us to interfere in non believers lives. He told us only to teach them about Salvation by repentance and to leave it to them to choose.
          Other than abetting in a sin, there is no reason not to help people with any component of their lives as you are not abetting a sin by doing that. To abet a sin is to actively be involved in it, not just to provide an item(s) for it. That’s what Christians are supposed to do to show we stand out from the rest of the world.
          Whether we agree or not, we should still treat everyone with love and caring and that includes everyone, with no exceptions made by Jesus.
          As a matter of a fact, Jesus told us not to treat anyone badly when he gave the lesson that some who think they have salvation will find out that they do not because they did not do as Jesus told us to when it came to others needs.
          Jesus wants us to love everyone as he loves us. Totally and completely in my opinion, as I believe that is how God loves us.
          Denying things that are for their lives is wrong. It’s like denying equal rights to anyone would not be something Jesus would agree with.
          First there is the scriptures about a town/ village where they gave all their money to the disciples and they split it amongst the whole place so all would be starting from that point to be equal in life so people will be more understanding with each other too.
          When one group is above another in any way it creates discomfort to not have control, but when you all have the same thing, it takes the control away and gives it to everyone instead of to the one group. That is what Jesus taught in that lesson.
          My cousin taught me how to make some people understand that Jesus did not agree with denying equal rights. The thing my cousin taught me was like a quiz. This is what she would say to people who agreed with denying equal rights to anyone.
          Would Jesus deny anyone food and water and heat for their sins?
          Would Jesus deny medicine or help in anyway because of someone’s sins?
          Would Jesus deny a non-believer the things he gives to us, even for sins?
          No Jesus gives his love to all of us freely and does not rely on a person’s sin to condemn him on earth, but shows them the same considerations he shows believers until Judgement Day. He tells us that they must know about Salvation Completely in order to understand what is offered, as well as what sin is and why we should try to stop, as a way to repent. If a person chooses to not follow Jesus, it’s up to them. He told us that he does not want anyone to come to him unless they choose to believe in him and later it was who believed in His only Begotten Son who we were to believe in.
          He would not deny anyone anything that is about the needs in our lives. Denying anything that does not directly involve the sin is against God’s Word.
          If you drive a get a way car for some bank robbers it is abetting in the sin.
          If you sell someone something for a wedding, it is not abetting a sin, since the major sin that marriage results from is the sin more so than the fact that they are marrying each other. If they did not have the first sin they would not get married. It’s kind of like saying it’s a two for one sin.
          Being married to the same gender is not the sin, it is the fact that they are sleeping together the way they do. When people do not believe that what they do are sins, they are not going to care if something else they do is considered a sin either.
          As we are supposed to be best behaved to show Christians Christ-like behavior, and hurting someone for our beliefs when it is not their belief is wrong. Tell them why it is wrong to you, fine, with compassion and empathy because we all sin in one way or another. But don’t act without considering how we would feel if the circumstances were reversed. Treat people the way we want to be treated is also to try to understand why we treat each other differently rather than be upset with each other. If we ask why, and they help us to realize something we had not realized before, that is the very best thing for anyone to recognize. Even if it is not going to change how we feel it provides us with empathy and a better chance at working things out together.
          I have been married for a number of decades though, and have been involved in a church only for one of those so discussing views with others is something I view as a good thing. My church leader once told us to believe what you want to believe from the religion, and believe what you read for yourself so you can decide what exactly you can believe and what you question (and look into further for more understanding)
          What faith were you in and did you leave because of the way they wanted you to treat other people? Many people are leaving for that reason. Either because they don’t want people to be treated equal, or they do, whichever it is someone disagrees and will leave if the situation is pushed upon them. I give the example of accepting gays into established churches as if you welcome them, the members who don’t agree are more likely to leave than if you are preached to be tolerant of differences.
          I have been learning about some of the different ways to believe that other religions have, and TBH I doubt I would have been able to stay in that environment. I am in a Pentecostal church with a leader that is more down to earth in the way he teaches. He leads us to worship and praise and to love God but he speaks about the things in the bible and how to apply them to our lives now. Part of our Joy in the Lord is because of our worshiping and praising by singing gospel songs. It lifts our spirits and makes it a place of rejoicing rather than a place to sit and listen. Our speakers speak as short as 30 min. sometimes and over an hour at other times depending on what they are teaching and how it can best be understood by the members who are there.
          Are you interested in a discussion about the reasons you left the church? I’d love to understand it. Blessings!
          BTW by saying what you said you are inferring that you are no longer a Christian? or is it just the church you do not like the methods of how they teach? One can be a Christian and not believe in what the churches around them teach and continue to be a Christian on their own.

          • Lark.62

            Thanks for the polite and thoughtful reply.

            I think we have a lot in common. You said

            and hurting someone for our beliefs when it is not their belief is wrong.

            Yes. This.

            Kindness doesn’t cost anything. And kindness and courtesy does not indicate agreement.

            The only point where I disagree is where you said “Tell them why it is wrong to you, fine…” I think it is safe to assume that every gay person in America knows what evangelical christians think of gays and gay marriage. There is no reason to say it. They know.

            The bible says “to everything there is a season and a time for every purpose under heaven.” There is a right time for everything. When a person is minding their own business or when they are preparing for a celebration, that is not the right time to tell them what christians think of gays and gay marriage. That is not the right time to say “we don’t serve your kind.” Now, if they are voluntarily participating in an online discussion with christians about gays or trans issues or whatever, that would be a completely reasonable time to state what you think about those issues, and why.

            For another example, I personally do not think that young children are capable of making a decision about religion, and I do not think it is right to teach children they deserve to go to hell. I actually feel pretty strongly about this. Do you know what I would say if a coworker said their five year old will be baptized on Sunday or their 7 year will be taking their first communion? “Congratulations.” That’s it. I would smile and say congratulations. I might add that I am happy for them, or that I hope the weather is nice, or that I hope they get some great pictures. Because raining on someone’s parade is rude. Responding politely does not mean I agree. It just means I am an adult.

            One thing that gets me is misgendering trans people. This is very hurtful to trans people. It is like a slap in the face. It doesn’t cost anything to refer to a transwoman as “her” and use her current name. This does not mean a person agrees, or even understands. It just means they can be polite.

            Thanks again. I am all for treating other people kindly, regardless of whether I agree with them.

          • Eldrida Urika

            Kindness doesn’t cost anything. And kindness and courtesy does not indicate agreement.

            I don’t think it indicates anything but proper behavior. I’m old, I think like that because of how I grew up and was taught how to behave properly etc. I have been alive long enough to have had a lot of diverse experiences that have helped me help others. I wasn’t religious until I was over 40 so it hasn’t been that long, although I have retained a lot of what I have learned in those years.

            The only point where I disagree is where you said “Tell them why it is wrong to you, fine…” I think it is safe to assume that every gay person in America knows what evangelical christians think of gays and gay marriage. There is no reason to say it. They know

            I would not talk to them without permission to, with anyone. Jesus told us to let those who do not choose to listen alone. I put anything that I can’t personally figure out, in God’s hands. He’s never failed me yet.

            Well, I believe that many of them do not know the Truth about it at all. They hear the bits and pieces of the Bible – usually some of the worst – about sin which makes them deaf as that is what humans do – but they are not told the whole story of salvation so they can understand the whole thing. Some do understand it, but do you think
            they will be from a church that follows Jesus closely or by someone who yells and screams at people and try to shame them in public.

            Jesus is not like that and he does not want us to be like that either. He wants our behavior to stand out because we reflect the goodness of Jesus and he gave us commands that were about the love and how to get along with others. Treating others in any way other than with love, compassion and empathy is just wrong, no matter what the reason. Talking is a much better way to understand each other than one side making the other feel crappy (or not!)

            I love that song. Turn, Turn, Turn by the Byrd’s

            The bible says “to everything there is a season and a time for every purpose under heaven.” There is a right time for everything. When a person is minding their own business or when they are preparing for a celebration, that is not the right time to tell them what christians think of gays and gay marriage. That is not the right time to say “we don’t serve your kind.” Now, if they are voluntarily participating in an online discussion with christians
            about gays or trans issues or whatever, that would be a completely reasonable time to state what you think about those issues, and why.<

            I can’t argue with what you say here at all. I totally agree with it all. There is a time and a place that is conductive to discussing Salvation. I agree that no one should be denied service because of their sins. As I believe, Jesus would not do that himself. He didn’t even condemn people, just told them not to sin anymore. He made it clear that it is not our place to condemn or punish others for their sins, and that it should be left to Judgement Day – the right time I guess – to discuss your life and he’s the one who convicts sinners of eternity in hell if it is warranted.

            For another example, I personally do not think that young children are capable of making a decision about religion, and I do not think it is right to teach children they deserve to go to hell. I actually feel pretty strongly about this. Do you know what I would say if a coworker said their five year old will be baptized on Sunday or their 7 year will be taking their first communion? “Congratulations.” That’s it. I would smile and say congratulations. I might add that I am happy for them, or that I hope the weather is nice, or that I hope they get some great pictures. Because raining on someone’s parade
            is rude.

            Responding politely does not mean I agree. It just means I am an adult.

            I say that about behaving like an adult all the time. I’ve had adults basically plug their ears with their fingers and sing la-la-la so they
            can’t hear me when I am trying to get through to them. SO Juvenile!

            You see that is dependent on what religion it is – in my own church our look is more about love than sin, so what they teach the children never mentions hell. Any explanation of hell is done by the parents at home without it being threatening by turning it around by telling them about the eternal fire and helping them to understand how to
            avoid it, rather than being aggressive about the punishment. My Pastor has done 1 (one) sermon in the past decade about hell, and it was more about not giving up.

            Our children are taught about Jesus’ love and taught the stories at each level, there are 3 children’s and 1 adult Bible class (es) before our service. The children classes are for different age ranges and taught at their levels. So the lessons are at a level that allows them to understand what the teacher is explaining about. When I was a very young child, I went to Sunday School when we were not
            camping and all I remember was that I got to color while the teacher told us a story about what we were coloring.

            We don’t believe that we should judge anyone as we are all sinners and do not have the right to make it sound like someone else’s sin is greater than our own.

            If anyone threatens their children with Hell I have no knowledge of it, and it must be done at home as I think others would disagree with it. I am aware from my husband that the Catholic Church he went to use to spend the last half hour telling everyone they were going to hell for their sins and if they did not ‘change’ they would end up in hell. I think that is disgusting to tell anyone because it is negative and I prefer to think positively. As I said, I would teach about love and tolerance, not hate of sin that seems to fall into hate for the person
            too.

            I too agree with tolerance of differences and that they have their own choices to make and we have ours. I’ve just been taught to make sure sinners actually know the gospel, and I am finding some
            gays/trans only know the words they have been demeaned about and not the whole story.

            One thing that gets me is misgendering trans people. This is very hurtful to trans people. It is like a slap in the face. It doesn’t cost anything to refer to a transwoman as “her” and use her current name. This does not mean a person agrees, or even understands. It just means they can be polite.

            Thanks again. I am all for treating other people kindly, regardless of whether I agree with them.

            I agree if it is obvious, but I’ve seen some who are not obvious which gender they want to be called. It’s embarrassing for anyone who is trying to be proper and makes a mistake. I know I am almost terrified to meet a person who says there are 2 people in their bodies. I’m afraid I’ll make a mistake and they will yell at me. They are taking a professor to court for not wanting to use those pronouns.

            No I don’t exactly think it is the one gender to the other that is hard to understand it is like I said another time, telling us they are two people well, it sounds like what we know as schizophrenia and that makes it
            something we are wary about.

            It’s the ‘order’ as I have never heard of these particular people asking, but only demanding, that we MUST call people zee and zay (sorry can’t remember the right spelling I guess)

            Those are the ones that people have a problem with the most
            I think. I have read a lot of things but I have not been told anything that helps me because it seems to be about just how some parts of our bodies that COULD be associated with transgender. I have been given a PDF to read about it though. I was able to find sources for gays, but they have been working to be accepted for 3 decades not flying in on someone’s coat tails. They were not introduced
            properly and it turned people off because of it. Yes a lot would have been turned off anyways, but many people are resisting because of it being like a demand rather than a request. People don’t like to be forced to do anything and makes who forces them to be resisted too. Can you follow that?

            Yes Christians need to show tolerance and begin to accept
            transgender (not their perceived sins but the people) but I read there are only 1% transgender in the U.S. of A. so that there will many, many people might never meet one in their lifetimes. It’s only such a big issue because of the media, IMHO. They wanted a story and it is more exciting to make something controversial than it is to help others have the victory over intolerance. I think the first step to conquering any conflicts is to discuss it and tell each other their feelings about anything that needs to be worked out before there can be an agreement made with both sides concerns addressed as
            much as possible. I believe that is how Adults settle disagreements or agree to disagree, but the understanding has to be tried before the conflict should continue.

            I don’t follow anything that hurts others unless you count telling them what sin is and helping them to recognize theirs just until they
            understand how to. The pain believers feel is the shame of hurting our Father by sinning. It’s like a child crying before you find out that they did something they knew was wrong and something happened that they had not expected so they were going to be caught. Sometimes confessing to doing something they knew was wrong, is more about how good they were to tell the parents instead of
            trying to hide it or lie. Sometimes the lesson is missed about the consequences that can happen when they disobey their parents concerning rules, because it is OK when they admit to it.

            It really is a personal belief about a lot of things in the Bible.
            I don’t have the understanding yet for all of it, but I like to explain the
            scriptures when I have a chance, and I do that strictly by the scriptures the others refer to and go from there. Unbelievers can have no real knowledge of the Bible and I want them to understand because understanding helps with tolerance. I want to spread the Good News as it is intended to be: GOOD.

          • Dr_Gonzzzo

            You apparently have no love, but a false sense of moral superiority…
            If you carried love in your heart, you would shut up about transgender people, let them live their lives and accepted them the same way as you want your deluded dogmas acknowledged… If you had a single bone in your body and an ounce of your soul following your Jesus, you would protest Wall Street, Capitalism, pollution,,,, Illegal wars… social and economic injustice. If you knew a single thing about Jesus, you would have joined OWS or the DAPL protesters rather than sitting in front of a PC at home, whining about how immoral those transgender people are. Besides, the American government is not based on fake Christian dogmas. Or even real ones. USA is founded on a secular government with no official religion, nor any place for religion to dictate law. The American federation is modelled after the PAGAN Iroquois confederation. There is nothing in the constitution that is based on biblical law. In fact, the 1st Amendment violates the 1st Commandment already. The 1st Amendment secures freedom of speech and freedom of religion. Does the 1st Commandment do that? So what part of American law gives Christians the right to discriminate against LGBT people and deny them equal rights as citizens? Why should tax evading churches dictate policies intrusive in the lives of tax paying LGBT people?

          • Eldrida Urika

            Why on earth are you attacking me? I have never been a rude or arrogant Christian nor do I believe we are superior. So I am not going to reply to this – I suggest you find out what the person believes before you attack someone again. Some of us are NOT Fundies!

          • Dr_Gonzzzo

            I am not attacking you. I am questioning your honesty regarding your alleged Jesus loyalty.
            As far as superiority complexes goes… That has been your modus operandi ever since your pilgirim ancestors butchered their first Native *American village in 1620..
            Why don’t you stand for principles rather than acting like a triggered snowflake
            Why don’t you answer why you are not siding with OWS, LGBT rights, the Standing Rock *Sioux tribe?
            If you are such great Christian, why have you not given away your entire wealth to some poor refugee family your Christian regime has bombed?
            If you are such a Jesus follower, why have you not left your family and become a homeless hobo just like him?
            Being a Jesus follower is not just saying you are one and the claiming you are walking his walk when you are not.
            Being a Jesus follower is making literal sacrifices.
            You must sacrifice wealth.. Family… Property.. And everything you produce will go into the Christian community for common redistribution.
            Being a Jesus follower is literally picking up your cross and take the rocks that others throw at you.
            If you were suich staunch Christian, you would have said to me “you are right! I should have been with OWS. I should have raised my Christian voice on behalf of the religious freedom and property rights of Native ‘Americans”…
            Instead you get triggered.. Playing the victim card and whine about why you are being attacked.
            They typical fundie tactics when your deep hypocrisy has been mirrored for the world and you look like deer caught in the headlight.. Panicking with no place to run and hide your false ‘christianity, you complain about being “attacked”… Why don’t you show some backbone rather than sound like a crybaby with your hands in the cookie jar?
            Your savior allegedly got both whipped, beaten and tortured. And here we have you. Can’t even handle simple questions as to why you never sided with the actual causes your savior would endorse…..
            It’s like when I quote Matthew 19-2 and ask your fellow fundies who gave them the authority to render LGBT people as 2nd class citizens with no civil rights.. they tell me that “only Jesus” can save me without actually addressing the flaws in their entire thinking is being served to them. Christians like you are worse than internet trolls And have the mentality of such when you spew out your religious garbage for then use your tropes to piss off others and avoid being accountable for your own ignorance, bigotry and insane tribalism..
            Every time yoi deflect and wine like a crybaby without acting like adults and and stick to what you claim you stand for, the worse you make you entire religion look.
            Every one of you reflect the practical values of your precious Allah… And every single one of you are dragging down your so called messiah down the drain a little bit more..

          • Eldrida Urika

            Nope you aren’t talking about me you are expressing your hatred for Christianity and everything it stands for.
            AS you can’t turn your attitude around I will not reply anymore.

          • Cal

            Yoo hoo…insane person..knock knock…stop posting. You are making a fool of yourself! Try to look for a job today. You are not speaking right. Things you write are absurd. Really.

          • Dr_Gonzzzo

            I’m so glad a fundie could set me straight.
            Still waiting for those “Christian values” your fellow fundies keep droning on about..
            So what have you done to prove your worth as a Jesus disciple?

          • Cal

            My gosh what a piece of sh*t you are. You are SO wrong minded it is beyond any semblance of rationale. And you post as with confidence and utter contempt! Incredible.

          • Dr_Gonzzzo

            Let’s see.
            So who is this Cal who keeps telling me I am wrong..
            Cal is probably from the bible belt. Has never been abroad. Has never travelled. Never studied any other religions than the parts of the bible being served to him, Hifgh school diploma…
            Knows nothing about transgender people. Knows nothing about Matthew 11-12..
            Calls himself Christian., Calls others who disagrees with his anti-trans ideology pieces of shits. Must call others pieces of shit to make himself feel better.
            Poor thing. I feel for you.

          • Cal

            Again…you cease to amaze in your errors. Not from the bible belt. Have been abroad and traveled. Have studied and read other religions. Went to college…successful businessman..successful marriage..successful children..recognized normal citizen who gives more than I have ever received. Transgenders are mentally ill. Research and read. Simple. They are also like gays…selfish and immature. Add vindictive to the list. Self riteous and obnoxious people. Like you.

          • Lark.62

            Thanks for your question about why I am no longer a christian. I appreciate the question. Many christians announce what “atheists really think” without ever bothering to actually speak to an atheist. It gets a bit annoying.

            I’m not sure that this is the right venue for a full discussion of what I think now, and why. I try to be respectful of the site’s comment policy.

            However, I can say that I was not hurt by christians, or traumatized in any way. I just realized over a period of a couple years that it no longer made sense to me. One of the first steps was when I noticed that people in churches were on the whole exactly like everyone else. Priests in Boston, surrounded by prayer and scripture, protected their friends even if it meant that innocent people would be put in harm’s way. This is exactly like the behavior of cops in many police departments, who protect their friends accused of abuse of authority even if it means innocent people will be put in harm’s way.

            This made me wonder what I had missed. I had memorized a lot of bible verses. I went back and intentionally read all the verses I had not memorized. I compared the types of things in the bible to the types of things in other religions and myths. Eventually I realized I simply did not believe any of it anymore.

            Cheers.

          • Eldrida Urika

            Interesting! Thank you for sharing that with me.
            The only thing I say to atheists is that if they don’t mind if I tell them my belief as it is different to the others here. I don’t push it on them, I just want to make sure the know the way we look at it as opposed to how they were taught.
            I have another friend who went through family stuff and lost his trust in God because of it. We discuss it and of course I’m trying to help him back to faith. We are both enjoying the discussion so I look at it that at least maybe I make him think and maybe it will help him. I can only try to bring peace to him and that is what he needs.
            Were you aware that some professionals have concluded that the big bang and the creation of the earth was actually done by a supreme being because of how precisely the bang was fine tuned so it would be able to maintain like, and they say that if the bang was don’t a second later it would likely have made it go back to it’s origin and not be a big bang. It’s on Utube with something like scientists say that God Exists or something close to that. about 25 min. long.
            I found it really interesting and it made a lot of sense how they explained it. There were Nobel peace prize winners, top archeologists and Some of the Top Scientists too. You should check it out. Everyone should check it out!! lol
            I am enjoying our discussions thank you. it is always great to talk with someone who isn’t aggressive about their beliefs.
            I am willing to discuss anything else you want to, I don’t mind.
            In the meanwhile, God bless!

          • Lark.62

            I knew someone who got mad at God when her church prayed for a baby with a flesh eating bacterial infection. The baby lost both arms and legs. She felt angry and betrayed. I understand what you are talking about when you say someone is mad at God.

            Being mad at God is not the same as coming to the conclusion that deities do not exist. People who are mad at a god still believe that that deity exists.

            For me, becoming an atheist was gradual and unemotional. I am not mad at any deity, just like I expect you aren’t mad at Thor or Zeus or Osiris. No anger or disappointment. You just don’t believe they exist.

            Cheers.

          • Eldrida Urika

            I would think it is anger that your belief was found to be wrong after all that time. Frustration with yourself. Guessing the normal reactions that we go through when something we believed in fails us. It can be like grieving for a close friend when you give up such a big part of your past. It takes time to get past of course, but are you just good at getting through the various stages that you would have gone through, or were you just lucky. Because the emotions for something like that are usually incredible especially when it is a failure that God did, when we have such strong faith that he would not break his promises to us. And then we feel that he has?
            I think about things like that so I can empathize with people. And to help me help them understand my view too, and possibly making a life changing decision.
            I can’t give up on God because I believe I have had proof that he exists, and since there are things not explainable by science that are happening consistently and continuously the only one that can do those things to prove it to me, is God. It’s not likely him when it is about nature and how he is able to control things.
            It’s too bad you were not able to see God working in your life. You tell me you have been a Christian for a long time, but I guess I need to ask what KIND of Christian –
            did you follow Jesus willingly or was it forced from an early age. You mentioned a couple of things that inferred your religion was Catholic and they are definitely not everyone’s cup of tea. Many people have left the faith and many who stay are the pew Christians that attend church because they think it will save them even though they do absolutely nothing to show they follow Christ.
            I can also tell from how you described the children being taught they will be going to hell for their sins.
            Did you work on your own Salvation or leave that to your church leaders to explain everything instead of reading it and having your own understanding of it, so you can talk to others about it and confirm your understanding?
            Did you read the scriptures over and over again, or put your bible down and not touch it during the week?
            Did you cherry pick the things you would do so they were only the things you wanted to do, or the things that were not convenient were not worth obeying the commands?

            I was baptized as an infant at an Anglican Church. I never attended more than a year of children’s classes and coloring is all I remember about it.
            I considered myself Christian and Anglican when I was asked because that is what I believed of myself, until I joined my church.

            So that would help me understand your break from the Church a bit better too I think. I’ve spoken to atheists about it and they are all very knowledgeable about the bible and often know it better than the Christians but have chosen not to follow it for various reasons.
            So I am interested in the way you were involved more to understand, if that’s ok. I do not intend this to rebuke you or demean you. The things I asked are just the various ways that some Christians live and it makes a difference to giving up believing or not giving it up, so I needed to ask. If you do not want to answer, please know that I will not pressure you for it. I just like to get a proper understanding of things now.

            You are a very good writer and I am not having any problem with what you say, except that my personal belief is very different than the main denomination churches. We look at everything in the bible with a more positive attitude about Jesus and why he stayed on the earth for as long as he did before it came time to be crucified. We believe that Jesus wants us to love everyone as he loves us, completely and without judgement. So you see, I can’t imagine what you had to go through beyond that my husband was catholic. I have only been an adult in Church. It makes a difference to my faith I suppose, and do not have that kind of history in my past .
            I’ve been very fortunate with the way my life was sheltered from the usual problems that teenagers and young adults have. It wasn’t my parents as they taught us to be independent adults by being independent once we were old enough to be left alone. They had 5 kids in 7 years so I can understand why they wanted to get away to the cottage alone on weekends lol!
            The majority of things I help with are things I’ve not had to go through myself but I seem to know what to tell people, so that’s all I try to do, My best.
            Blessings!

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            more arminiamism ………

          • Eldrida Urika

            Christians are not rude to others especially not other Christians Amos.

            17 No weapon (rudeness) that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

            No doubt you think this is not the right CATEGORY and doesn’t mean for all Christians, but you are wrong again if that is what you believe.

            Removing my posts Amos does little because what I say is still in your mind and you know that I am right.
            I don’t see why an OPINION of one Christian to another is a reason to delete something unless it makes them uncomfortable themselves.

            My words are not intended to demean you like you demean me by insisting on things that are total lies about me.
            I am telling you about your errors because that is what Christians are told to do by Jesus. If you want to ignore the warnings put in front of you that is between you and God, not me. I’m just doing what I have been led to do BY GOD. It is your free will that is making you choose to ignore it. God does not tell us things so we can ignore it, and it is only by free choice that you can choose not to follow HIS guidance from other sources. God gives messages through other Christians all the time Amos. I think he thinks because you are faithful you will listen and confirm. I guess he isn’t making you confirm it even. So I have no understanding of why the Lord wants me to keep telling you, or why he guided my cousin to do the same thing, but you are the one that it has to affect, not us. You seem to think I have ill intentions by telling you about how the scriptures differ from the way you have been taught but it is because of God’s guidance and the truth shown in the scriptures, not because I want to lead anyone astray from the truth of the Lord. I am only interested in THE TRUTH in God’s Word. Nothing the is from the bible is a lie, and I always use the scripture and it’s always in the right context unless you are ignoring the message in God’s Word to help us live the life he wants us to live. Take it or leave it Amos, but stop making YOUR opinion as The truth when it is offensive to me and does not reference anything in the bible. The bible is for all of our edification every single scripture is there for a reason and it’s not to show what Paul wrote to the Corinthians as the ONLY reason for the letter. It is for every Christian that reads the Word of God, not just the ones in the past.

            Learn from other people Amos, or lets put it this way. The majority of religions do not regard our salvation as something that does not require to listen to Jesus’ commands, doesn’t that make you question your own education and how they look at the gospel as “nothing” when no matter what they think is true, Jesus said the TOTAL opposite in the scriptures. How can you ignore that? I’m sorry you haven’t read this far because I really wish you would consider what I have said. You have to have a free conscious to be able to ignore Jesus’ commands and think it is not His Word that is written to teach us what he wanted us to learn before he sacrificed himself for everyone in the World.

            John 3: 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but
            that the WORLD THROUGH HIM MIGHT BE SAVED.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            so now more out of context scripture with a prosperity gospel bent …. which just LEANS towards arminianism …. sad ,,,,,,,,,

      • Dr_Gonzzzo

        Does your faith allow you to degrade and dehumanize people who are born different than you?
        When you seek to deny transgender people to live in peace and freedom without the risk of being harassed by Christians like yourself with your fake morals….what makes you a better person than those kids who just want to live their lives?
        So where did Jesus condemn transgender people and praise you and your fellow fundies? Can you find a bible verse where Jesus states that transgender people are more sinful than you and that rich televangelists who preaches against transgender people are in their right?
        Do you as a Christian have the right to infringe on other people’s free will? Do you think you have the legal authority to bully transgender people to conform to your anti-LGBT ideology? Besides, why does your false preaching against transgender people have more importance than the constitution?

        • Cal

          The more I read of you the more I have to say..you are an absolute ASSHOLE!!

          • Dr_Gonzzzo

            Let’s just say that all the negative energies and hate you and your fellow “Christians” are coming back in the form of some ugly truths about your death cult of child molesters and snake oil salesmen.. You send out HATE… You get it back in spades” No safe spaces for you! No places for your kind to hide! Your kind are about to be exposed like trolls in sunlight.
            So why are you hating LGBT people? Your fellow human beings?
            What have they done to deserve your hate and scorn?

    • Dr_Gonzzzo

      What is most immoral in your eyes?
      Destroying nature in the name of profit, waging wars based on lies, torture, keeping refugees out, ignoring poor people, denying sick people healthcare or transgender people? Who would your Jesus condemn? A televangelist who needs another jet, or that transgender kid who’s being bullied by “good, god fearing” Christian kids in school?
      Besides, who are you to make decisions on other people’s behalf? If you loved your baby Jebus, you would support transgender people in their decision. If you cannot, then I suggest you stay out. Your intrusion and religious bullying is just destructive and sends bad energies. And whatever you do to others, will come back to haunt you or bless you. If you treat transgender people the same way as you want them to treat you – with respect and dignity, then you will get that treatment back, You send out love,compassion, empathy and support, you will get that in return. If you do what you do now, expect a giant turd with a personal message from your savior himself:

      “The way you treat the least of mine…. Not cool man! Not cool!”

    • Eldrida Urika

      I was wondering if you can tell me something since you brought up the condition of the world here.
      What do you seriously think we can do now that there are laws about gays and transgender if that is what you expect to ‘fix’ the situation.
      You see as a Christian, I believe that when it is this large of a scale that an acceptance of sin is committed, there is nothing we ourselves can possibly do about the immorality of the world. So I believe Christians should consider it in God’s hands and waiting and watching for the rest of the prophecies to happen, keeping our faith strong through the rougher times, and watch for Jesus’ return. Our hands are tied no matter what we want to do, right? I can’t imagine people being able to stop this now. It’s like knowing what is coming in the future with one of the other religions that is supposed to be who Jesus comes to fight. It’s been made obvious by the scriptures, and we are learning more and more about it ourselves.
      So seriously think about leaving this one to God as being upset and stressed about the world was not what Christians are supposed to be like. He told us not to worry or fear. He will take care of His children; his Saints.
      Jesus used to tell the Apostles that “all these things must happen” ‘before the end of days;’ those things were intricate with the other events so the prophecies about them had to be fulfilled before the “next” prophecy could happen. Kind of like a domino effect I guess you could think of it.
      So keep an eye for the ones you can save and do not fear what is going on in their world as it should not be able to affect those of us of who are not of this world, right?
      Blessings!

  • james blue

    If you support trump you have no standing on moral issues.

    • Maxwell Edison

      Troll post. Flagged.

    • Amos Moses – He>i

      if you are an a-theist you surely dont ……

      • Silas Jennings

        What the hell is an a-theist?

  • BuckeyePhysicist

    I thnk we need to change our national anthem to Aerosmith’s “Dude Looks Like a Lady.”

    • Amos Moses – He>i

      ROTFL ………..

  • Tonya Elise

    The world is closing in on it’s self. Sinful Acts are just news. But the sins stay the same throughout time. It is just the Media the points it out to the world. I personally believe we are at the beginning is the End of time Or the start of the “End times”. The ISIS war is start of Armageddon. World news (ISIS war,Russia, China and North Korea) We lived through the shall we say the “more peaceful” times and Yes, there have been smaller wars but all this it coming to a head and points straight to the worst of times. It is all spread out and not in one area like before in history. In America We are not the Saints in fact we ourselves are part of the problem. With that said, Think in the BIBLE the “Tower of Babel” all the people were together just like the USA ” the melting pot of the world”. Now even the USA is dividing Just like when the tower fell. In turn the Bible Revelations is coming to pass everyday we live and getting closer. Again, i believe we are no close But, at the Beginning of the “End Times” as predicted in the Bible.

  • George Spain

    Seems to me, more business as usual. The loud and in your face vocAL minority controls are way of life and those of our child.

    The silent and reserved majority sits quietly by and allows the small sodomite minority to push their sick and sinful life style of Obamanation onto our children.

    ” turn from your wicked ways to seek Heavenly Father’s forgiveness in prayer he would heal our land”

    Have nothing to do with the works of the wicked but seek to expose them. Ephesians 5.11

    Please join together in daily prayer for these people that mock our Creator and His creation. They truly need prayers for healing Grace yet are so blinded by their perversion they can not see it.

    • Robin Egg

      Amen.

    • Elca

      ” Obamanation”? seriously? before Obama became President, conservative women were aborting their babies and being gays and lesbians.
      Don’t blame Obama or politicians for this mess. Blame the Church. It to is NO different from the culture around it.

  • My fellow Christians and Patriots, we’ve been had! In fact, it’s so bad that we’ve been promoting the genesis of America’s woes (including the homosexual agenda) as the the solution.

    America was sold down the river when, among other things, the 18th-century founding fathers created the rights culture when they replaced Biblical responsibilities with Enlightenment rights. See blog article “America’s Road to Hell:Paved With Rights.” Click on my name, then our website. Go to our Blog and search on title.

    Had the constitutional framers (like their Christian Colonial forbears) established government and society upon Yahweh’s immutable/unchanging moral law (including Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13), there would be no homosexual agenda today (and certainly none of them in positions of civil leadership) because no sodomite or lesbian would dare risk exposing themselves to petition government for their “rights.”

    For more, see online Chapter 3 “The Preamble: WE THE PEOPLE vs. YAHWEH” of “Bible Law vs. the United States Constitution: The Christian Perspective.” Click on my name, then our website. Go to our Online Books page, click on the top entry, and scroll down to Chapter 3.

    Then find out how much you really know about the Constitution as compared to the Bible. Take our 10-question Constitution Survey in the right-hand sidebar and receive a complimentary copy of a book that examines the Constitution by the Bible.

    • Elca

      If you are not prepared to speak of the Feminist agenda that has a strong hold in the Churches, then you are just wasting time; being afraid to speak sound doctrine that would get the wrath of feminist women on your head.

  • Ginger

    The four hidden dynasties are global tools used by satan in the end times to usher him in as
    the antichrist imitating the true Christ. They are the coming one world system of the Political, educational, financial, and religious unity. You can see them being put in place now, if you look. They are also referred to as the ‘four horns’, and they are integral parts of the 1st beast of [Rev 13:1-10] that is ultimately controlled by the second beast of [Rev 13:11-18]. This second beast is satan as the antichrist. See: Dan 7:3 & Zech 1:18-21.
    THE 4 HIDDEN DYNASTIES:
    Educational- [Dan 1:3-5] (Includes the media)
    Economic- [Dan 8:23-26]
    Religious- [Rev 13:11-18]
    Political- [Rev 17:12-17]

    • Eldrida Urika

      Thank you for being so detailed in your post. I am going to go look at those scriptures with what you say in mind. Thanks again! Blessings!

      • Ginger

        I use the KJV as reference, actually the Companion Bible KJV.

        • Eldrida Urika

          Thanks I’ll look into that book. Blessings!

        • Eldrida Urika

          I’m sorry, but when I googled it there were more than one in the list, could you recommend the right one to me please? I’d appreciate it.
          I found one in PDF but I’m not feeling like it is necessarily as good as the one you recommend and I don’t want to use a bad source.
          Thanks in Advance, and God bless!

  • francio smith

    I dont care how many people in the world choose to call these abominalable men, “transgender “. Nor if there is a so called “concensus” of the so called “intellects” on calling homosexuals, that love to dress up in womens clothing, “transgender “. These are sick people ,that should be in mental institutions seeking help.

    • Michael C

      Nor if there is a so called “concensus” of the so called “intellects” on calling homosexuals, that love to dress up in womens clothing, “transgender “.

      You’re correct that there isn’t a *consensus* among *intellectuals* that gay men want to dress up as women. That’s not what the word transgender means.

      Gay men don’t want to be women. Gay men are men.

      …and some transgender women and men are heterosexual, some are homosexual.

      Sexual orientation and gender identity are different things.

  • Lark.62

    Many have used ”fear of others” as a campaign platform. It was visible in recent elections where some candidates made poor people and immigrants seem scary. This is contrary to what the Bible teaches about caring for the poor and welcoming strangers. Likewise, fear of and contempt for trans people is wrong.

    Trans people are just people.

    As people realize that some of their family, friends, neighbors and co-workers are gay or trans, and that these people are just like everyone else, the sky is falling fear mongering is exposed as a lie.

    The good people of Virginia had a clear choice between a man who bragged that he is “Virginia’s Chief Homophobe” and a woman who cares about transportation and other matters of substance. They realized her personal life simply does not matter. Fear mongering is a waste of time. What matters is doing the job and representing all constituents.

  • Florus Filipus

    ja als dagen donker worden

  • Chet

    Wannabees, thinking themselves to have been evolved/evolving sure make for some very rough looking make believe women…

  • TimothyJ

    These poor souls may identify themselves as women but it only takes one glance to see that they are men dressed in women’s clothes. What is this Gotham City, Arkham Asylum where all the insane clowns run the show?

  • Vince

    No such person as “Danica,” he’s Dan Roem. “Andrea” is Andrew Dwayne Jenkins.

    A man who will like about his own sex will lie about anything. Do we really need another sleazy liar in politics?

  • Elca

    Oh well the Church is no different. It too has gays and lesbians as Pastors. So why not the same in government?

  • zeddicuskotor

    Vast improvement to bigoted religious conservatives on every metric.

  • Madam

    The article fails to mention why these two guys won: There are actually transgender PACs that financed their campaigns hugely. What does that tell you about progressives, they always claim to care about the poor and the hungry, but they contribute money to the campaign of men pretending to be women. Sickening priorities.

  • Romans 1:26-32New King James Version (NKJV)

    26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise
    also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their
    lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and
    receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

    28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[a] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[b] unmerciful; 32 who,
    knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such
    things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of
    those who practice them.

  • Eldrida Urika

    I am hoping the moderator is reading this discussion and the fact that I have flagged the comments that he has aimed at ruining my reputation with lies I would like to see Amos Moses banned for the rudeness he is continually showing in disrespect of me. He is not allowed to lie to give others a false impression of me and I want it to stop. Please consider this request for me. Others have been banned for a lot less than what he has said about me personally about my faith and my belief. I feel he has been going against the comment board rules on a continuing basis without reason as I have not tried to do that to him.

    I am not the kind of person that he is saying and he has no proof that I am. But he still tells everyone on the board that I am not preaching the true word of God and that he is allowed to have another belief but it should be able to be supported or it is not of God.

    God puts scriptures in the bible for us to use including for the purpose of standing strong in our faith for the Lord. There should be plenty of scriptures to show your belief is secure in the scriptures.