US Supreme Court to Hear Pregnancy Centers’ Case Against Calif. Law Requiring Provision of Info on Govt. Abortion Programs

WASHINGTON — The U.S. Supreme Court has agreed to hear an appeal from several California pregnancy centers that are challenging a state law requiring them to provide information on government abortion programs even though doing so goes against their mission and purpose.

The court will consider the question as to “whether the Free Speech Clause or the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment prohibits California from compelling licensed pro-life centers to post information on how to obtain a state-funded abortion and from compelling unlicensed pro-life centers to disseminate a disclaimer to clients on site and in any print and digital advertising.”

“Forcing anyone to provide free advertising for the abortion industry is unthinkable—especially when it’s the government doing the forcing. This is even more true when it comes to pregnancy care centers, which exist specifically to care for women who want to have their babies,” Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF) Senior Counsel Kevin Theriot said in a statement on Monday after the court announced that it had accepted the case.

The group had petitioned the nation’s highest court to hear the appeal in March, noting that the law “violates the Petitioners’ rights under the Free Exercise Clause by forcing them to make statements contrary to, or that  undermine, their pro-life religious convictions, while exempting other medical and non-medical providers.”

As previously reported, Gov. Jerry Brown signed the Reproductive FACT Act into law in Oct. 2015, a measure that has been dubbed the “bully bill” by pro-life groups in the state. The bill had been authored by Democratic Assemblyman David Chiu, who outlined in the law that he takes issue with pregnancy centers that don’t provide abortion referrals to women.

“The author contends that, unfortunately, there are nearly 200 licensed and unlicensed clinics known as crisis pregnancy centers (CPCs) in California whose goal is to interfere with women’s ability to be fully informed and exercise their reproductive rights, and that CPCs pose as full-service women’s health clinics, but aim to discourage and prevent women from seeking abortions,” it reads.

The legislation therefore requires that licensed pregnancy care centers provide the following message to clients in print: “California has public programs that provide immediate free or low-cost access to comprehensive family planning services (including all FDA-approved methods of contraception), prenatal care, and abortion, for eligible women. To determine whether you qualify, contact the county social services office at (telephone number).”

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Violators will be fined $500 for the first offense and $1,000 for each infringement afterward.

Several faith-based pregnancy centers filed suit to challenge the law, including the National Institute of Family and Life Advocates, the Pregnancy Care Clinic and the Fallbrook Pregnancy Resource Center. However, both the federal district court and the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals declined to grant an injunction, finding that the requirement served a significant government interest.

“California has a substantial interest in the health of its citizens, including ensuring that its citizens have access to and adequate information about constitutionally-protected medical services like abortion,” wrote Judge Dorothy Nelson, appointed to the bench by then President Jimmy Carter, for the Ninth Circuit last October.

“And given that many of the choices facing pregnant women are time sensitive, such as a woman’s right to have an abortion before viability, we find convincing the AG’s argument that because the licensed notice is disseminated directly to patients whenever they enter a clinic, it is an effective means of informing women about publicly-funded pregnancy services,” she said.

ADF then appealed the matter to the U.S. Supreme Court, which agreed on Monday to accept the case.

“Why should the abortion industry be able to force others—even pro-life centers—to provide free abortion advertising?” ADF Legal Counsel Elissa Graves said in a statement. “Planned Parenthood, which makes millions from abortion, deceives women into believing that abortion is their only choice. Pregnancy care centers, which provide their care for free, were established specifically to help women understand that they have the choice of life for their children, and that they will be there to help them through their pregnancies.”

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  • mr goody two shoes

    Let’s see how good a pope the roman Catholic church has with Franky. We will see if he does any thing about Roman Catholic supreme court justices that support the right to murder laws. I bet he is all chicken manure but we will see.

    • james blue

      What do you think he should do?

  • mr goody two shoes

    So far you can thank the Roman Catholic Church for murder of American children by abortion its there members that have had a majority on the US supreme court for years.

  • james blue

    The law of unintended consequences bite back hard. This is why I do not support social conservative abortion regulation tactics that have no medical justification.

    If it is constitutional to require an abortionist to read a government written “pro life” statement to a customer even if he disagrees with the statement then it’s constitutional to force a crisis pregnancy center to read a statement they disagree with.

    If it’s unconstitutional to force a crisis pregnancy center to read a statement they disagree with then it’s also unconstitutional to force the abortionist.

    • mr goody two shoes

      Let me make simple for you to understand .One is murdering children the others trying to save their lives.

      • james blue

        Let me make this simple for YOU to understand. The constitution isn’t situational. The comment isn’t about abortion, it’s about forced reading of government written statements for private citizens or businesses. The content of the statement is irrelevant and the occupation individual person being forced to read it is irrelevant.

        There are a few exceptions, such as police having to read you your rights, or a government clerk reading an oath or carrying out a duty of his or her office.

        • Maxwell Edison

          And I’ll maker this easy for you to understand: Abortion is murder. No ifs, ands, buts or discussion.

          The taking of innocent life in the name of convenience makes it relevant.

          • james blue

            Again my comment history, unlike yours is open for public view. Please feel free to link to any comment I’ve written where I agree with abortion.

            Oh wait, it’s you…Never mind.

          • LadyInChrist♥BlessedBeTheLord

            And you are an Anti-Christian troll who is out to get him at any cost. And then brags to you fellow Atheist trolls when you all get someone banned..
            May God let you see your shame at what you do to Christians on Christian sites.
            And may God stop you and the others from what you all are doing to Christians.And may God protect Chriatians from you and your hate.

          • james blue

            I didn’t get him banned, he did that himself with false accusations and harassment of others, I suspect you are heading the same route with all your false accusations and harassment.

            I’ve already suggested you just block me if you don’t like my post, but then I suspect this is not your only account.

          • LadyInChrist♥BlessedBeTheLord

            You took part of it and then you along with your fellow Anti-Christian Trolls bragged about it. May you one day see and feel your shame at what you all do to the Christians you all hate so much.May God stop you all in His perfect timing. May the Will of God be done for all the cruel things you all do to Christians. God sees what you all are doing and He knows the reasons why.

          • Maxwell Edison

            Show me where I said otherwise.

            And enough with this “Jerrome” etc. crap. You don’t like getting spanked by your moral and intellectual betters in front of all your peers who don’t belong here so you throw a red herring in order to accomplish…what?

          • james blue

            Erm you are jerrome. You were banned a couple of weeks ago and opened this account to bypass that ban.

          • Maxwell Edison

            And you accuse me of ban evasion because you don’t like the butthurt.

            Get used to it.

            The fact is, you should’ve been banned right when you offered to teach atheism on a Christian website. But why that was tolerated says more about the moderator than you.

            You are on notice: You will not come into a Christian website and attack or mock God, Jesus, Christians, Christianity or the Bible and expect to go unchallenged.

            NOT on my watch.

          • james blue

            Perhaps the reason I haven’t banned is because what you accuse me of didn’t actually happen.

          • LadyInChrist♥BlessedBeTheLord

            Bragging again? God knows what you are doing. He knows your motives. You should be ashamed of yourself.Remember one day you will be face to face with Christ. I’m sure He will let you try to justify yourself. as to why you hated Maxwell. I’m sure He already know why.

          • Silas Jennings

            Also Jason Todd, also slidellman4life. But Matthew is his real name.

          • Silas Jennings

            It’s quite correct that he not call you “Jerome”. Your given name is Matthew.

          • Maxwell Edison

            Is it?

  • Had the constitutional framers (like their 17th-century Christian Colonial forbears) established government and society upon Yahweh’s unchanging moral law (including Exodus 21:22-23), there would no government-paid-for in utero infanticide programs to contend with, no Roe v. Wade, no Planned Parenthood. In turn, millions of infants slaughtered in their mothers’ wombs would have see the light of day.

    Christians who promote the biblical seditious Constitution as the law of the land are complicit in these murders:

    “…3. Every problem America faces today can be traced back to the fact that the framers failed to expressly establish a government upon Yahweh’s immutable morality as codified in His commandments, statutes, and judgments. (Would infanticide and sodomy be tolerated, let alone financed by the government, if Yahweh’s perfect law and altogether righteous judgments were the law of the land? Would Islam be a looming threat to our peace and security if the First Amendment had been replaced with the First Commandment? Would Americans be in nearly as
    much debt if usury had been outlawed as a form of theft? Would crime be as rampant if “cruel and unusual punishment” had not been outlawed and criminals were instead punished with Yahweh’s altogether righteous judgments? Would we be on the fiscal cliff if we were taxed with a flat increase tax rather than a graduated income tax?)….

    “On February 27, 2009, James Dobson conceded that we have lost the culture wars. This is the consequence of Christians [including Dr. Dobson] having spent the last two centuries lopping at the rotten branches of our culture’s corrupt tree while watering and fertilizing its roots.

    “We should lop away at the tree’s corrupt branches (infanticide, sodomy, the economy, etc.). However, until the root of these problems is Biblically addressed, we will never shut down the infanticide mills, we will never defeat the sodomites, and we will never fix the economy. In short, we will never win the culture wars. This issue is more than important for anyone concerned about God, our nation, and the future of our posterity, it’s the cutting- edge issue of our day….”

    For more, see our Featured Blog Article “5 Reasons the Constitution is Our Cutting-Edge Issue.” Click on my name, then our website. Go to our Blog and search on title.

    Then find out how much you really know about the Constitution as compared to the Bible. Take our 10-question Constitution Survey in the sidebar and receive a complimentary copy of a book that examines the Constitution by the Bible.

  • Gregory Alan of Johnson

    Repentance is required, in the name of Yeshua, Amen.

  • James Higginbotham

    in reading all the commits here.
    this has not one thing to do with the CONSTITUTION, but a ,LOT

  • Tony Demarcus, Ph.D., D.D.

    And what happens to the murdered unborn? The Christian Bible says:
    “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” John 14:6
    Since they had no chance to accept Jesus, they are being sent straight to Hell. Because the Bible says so–and it says not a thing otherwise.
    So what does the Bible say on abortionism?
    “But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.” Matt 19:14. Also Luke 18:16 and Mark 10:14.

    • Robin Egg

      Do you believe that babies have a soul?

      • Tony Demarcus, Ph.D., D.D.

        Yes. They don’t get a soul at some point after they are born. The idea that babies don’t have soul is an argument of the abortionist who wants to make their murder seem as if that was no more than just cutting off a fingernail.

        • Eldrida Urika

          Praise the Lord that all babies are sent directly to heaven as they are innocent and God loves the little children!

          • Tony Demarcus, Ph.D., D.D.

            Only if you reject the whole of the Christian Bible. And your statement is nothing short of an endorsement of abortionism and baby murder!

          • Eldrida Urika

            NO IT IS NOT and God tells us plainly that he loves the little children and that they will all be in heaven.
            I recommend you ASK not accuse because I could have explained that without you inferring that I am lying and that I would ever endorse anything by PRAISING THE LORD!!

            You are welcome to your belief, but do not ever criticize mine because it comes straight from the bible, and by criticizing my belief, you are criticizing the way the Bible is written, and therefore questioning God about his scriptures, since I am not the writer of the scriptures but merely a servant of the Lord.
            I never “endorsed” anything but Praising the Lord for His mercy that brings the poor children to Heaven.

            I think you owe me an apology for what you said.

          • Tony Demarcus, Ph.D., D.D.


            The Christian is gonna go very easy on you here, ok? Ok! Relative to your anti-Biblical claims that (1) babies are sent to Heaven if they die (without knowing Jesus) and (2) that babies are innocent, have you actually read the Christian Bible in it’s full historical-grammatical context? NOT!

            In our Bible, Jesus explicitly states that NOONE goes to Heaven without being Saved! There is no other way and no shortcuts, for anyone, including unborn and young children. That’s Christian Bible and true Christian faith plain and simple! In your ridiculous scenario where babies are somehow magically exempt from the rules of Salvation because they are “innocent”, at what age then are they no longer innocent and require to be Saved? Please do tell and use the Christian Bible in doing so!

            What’s more, if you’re to believe that babies go to Heaven, when you’re supporting abortionism. Because we know, including from the Bible, that many, if not most, people will not be Saved, then according to YOUR theology, baby murder would only assure that all 100% will end up in Heaven (by circumventing Salvation, of course). How sickening!

          • Eldrida Urika

            Sorry you are wrong. All innocents will be in heaven because of God’s Mercy and His love for the little children. You forget the grace he gives us for the forgiveness of sin. The only sin an innocent poor baby who has died from intentional harm only has the original sin as their sin, because they were never born and cannot sin now. But the mother or the person who decides on the abortion – sometimes it is not the mother as some women are still forced to abort so they can still work at whatever. It’s disgusting and there are not a lot of media attention to that with the fact of the abortion being focused on, it rarely talks about those mothers. In some countries, in some situations, they will literally strap a woman down and remove the fetus from the woman and without her consent. So the person who decided to abort the baby is still the one responsible for the death of the baby and it is those that will be punished when it is time, but an innocent? Especially a child? No His grace is enough and that is why he told us that they will be there in that scripture I mentioned about what would happen to anyone who harmed a child.
            Honestly, I am a servant of God and I adhere very closely to what Jesus said for us to do as an act of obedience to the Lord. If we are not obedient about doing his commands, he made it clear that it will have consequences for that disobeying.
            I don’t know if you will search the scriptures to find out whether I am telling The Truth about the things I said. Anything and everything I say is in the bible and is easily interpreted the way it is written. At least to those of us who have truly committed our life to Jesus it is clear.
            If you don’t want to agree, I understand because not all religions believe in the same interpretation, but I have been finding Christians that think Salvation is guaranteed, and I feel very strong about explaining why we must follow His commands.
            But know this, every single word the way I have explained it to you, is in the scriptures. They are not quotes but they are there. According to Jesus it is up to you to search the scriptures and find out if I am correct about the scriptures. I know I am but obviously you need to remind yourself of those scriptures.
            One of the things that I strongly believe is not the behavior of a Christian is any rudeness or mocking in their words that are showing disrespect before you let me reply instead of waiting to find how I explain it. I am disappointed in a person who is supposed to be an expert on the bible would treat anyone like you are treating me. Being anything but loving and kind especially towards a Sister, is not following what Jesus told us to be like.

            I can help you understand if you are not aware of this information yourself. Mostly it is a cross between religious belief and what the world displays for their consideration as innocence is something the whole world must deal with within their laws, and We have to simply obey Jesus in all things as shown to us in the Word of God.

            The reason is also clear. It is why some religions look at the age of 13 to be a milestone, like the Jewish bar mitzvah and some Christian religions call it confirmation. It is when the children can commit or confirm to the beliefs of the church and follow Jesus for their lifetime. That is when the age of innocents ends for religions.
            For the world, it varies by some major differences and I have been told, not seen in the bible, but it makes sense from what the bible says.
            The age of innocence is actually when a person is able to discern what is good and what is bad in the way that they are able to recognize that the actions are going to hurt or do harm, and show no remorse for their actions, whatever they may be, it is a sign of being at the same level of maturity as a child of 13.
            Jesus loves the little children and told us that they would be in Heaven when he told us that anyone who harms a child will be punished.
            So No it is not a lie, or an attempt at redirecting or changing another’s beliefs, and again it is in the bible. I expect you know the scriptures I speak about so I shouldn’t need to point it out to you.
            It does not make an abortion any different for the person who makes the decision on the abortion and that is why the babe goes to heaven, because it is not in control of it’s death in any way, It is INNOCENT and the grace of Salvation gives forgiveness of sin for the original sin the babies would be born with. Therefore they will not circumvent Salvation in any way because of the Grace of God. Other than the original sin, they have not had a chance to do any sins other than the one that we are all born in.
            Almost appreciated the change of your approach until I realized it actually had not been changed at all.
            Sir, Do you expect to be treated with the respect those letters behind your name indicate? Do you expect that people will not be disrespectful as you do have letters after your name.
            My Jesus told us boldly to treat others the way we want to be treated and you were a true expert you would know that the behavior you are displaying towards me is anything but Christian and believe me, I am very familiar with the scriptures and am quite able to direct you to the scriptures about any one of my statements that I did not say that it was not from the bible. But the ones that are in the bible are supported by that statement that I mentioned as well, and that is why I referenced it.
            So do not Ever try to imply that I don’t know my scriptures EVER again. It is the rudest and most insulting and disrespectful way that I have had just one other poster treat me like you are.
            Maybe you should look at the the comment board rules so you know that some behavior is not tolerated by Disqus, and being discourteous is one of those rules.
            If you want anyone to believe those letters behind your name? then I suggest you act like what you are supposed to be. People who are Christians and don’t know that it is considered disobeying Jesus’ commandments and a sin.
            If you want too still “converse” about our beliefs then do not be rude about me please. I try very hard not to be in any way insulting when I correct the behavior of any brethren because it was an order from Jesus to rebuke each other for sins we see done.
            Please have some respect for my knowledge since I can produce every scriptures I have cited as scripture. If your course on Doctor of Divinity: an advanced or honorary academic degree in divinity has missed any of the things I have mentioned then it is either of a different religion, or it is one of the ones that disregard Jesus’ commands.
            Either way, I won’t be defending myself to the likes of you again. Either you speak with less disdain for my beliefs or I will defend myself because I am confident in how well I know the scriptures that you obviously do NOT know. I’m quite convinced by your behavior that your D.D. initials are from the Honorary degree as you have proved you do not know scripture.
            So you see, I can be quite polite and direct about the way I focus on your qualifications without a word that is mocking nor even insulting. Now that is behaving more like the way Jesus commanded us than anything you have displayed.
            IF you truly do have a PHD, that isn’t an honorary one, then I feel sympathy for your patients if you treat them remotely like you have been treating me.
            But it is likely either honorary or questionable in the first place (those letters)
            I pray that the Lord will open his child’s eyes and give them understanding of the scriptures I talked about. As you are Righteous and Just and you have already given me the knowledge and understanding that I have asked for about this man of faith, and you have never failed to give Wisdom and Knowledge to those who ask for it. Blessed Be the Lord, Amen!

          • Tony Demarcus, Ph.D., D.D.


            The Christian congratulates you on being able to write such a profound thesis relative to your unBiblical beliefs. It’s too bad it is so vacuous and empty of any Biblical context! As I said, I’m going to go easy on you, so would you answer some very simple Biblical questions? Yes?

            Here’s one:
            In your ridiculous scenario where babies are somehow magically exempt
            from the rules of Salvation because they are “innocent”, at what age
            then are they no longer innocent and require to be Saved? Please do
            tell and use the Christian Bible in doing so!

            Here’s another:
            Was our beloved Jesus nice and kind, or was He “rude”, when he rebuked false believers in John 8:44? Simple question, really!

            But wait, there’s more–and it all comes directly from our Christian Bible, which we believe and accept in its full historical-grammatical context:
            We know that very few people will be Saved,therefore, most will NOT go to Heaven. Baring this simple Biblical fact in mind, those like you, who believe that all babies and children too young to know Jesus will go to Heaven upon their death, what will ever stop you from promoting abortionism and murder as means of “sending 100% of these people to Heaven”? Do tell!

          • Eldrida Urika

            You are obviously not reading my posts because you don’t feel like reading that far maybe? I gave you a challenge at the end of one of my last replies to which you ignored because you were in such a rush to tell me how wrong I was. So although I have written a reply to you, I am going to delete it so you can take the time HONESTLY to see if those scriptures actually say what I say they do. THOSE SCRIPTURES not others, those. Unless, you can’t?
            So I think you might want to address those Words next or you are wasting both of our times and making accusations about me that are NOT TRUE.
            That is a reason to flag your comments if you keep being discourteous to me. Disqus rules, not mine. I don’t want to, but if you continue to try to ruin my reputation as a servant of Jesus, that is why it will happen.
            You have yet to prove THIS as much as you keep replying without reading those scriptures.
            So I am still waiting for the specific reason why what I say about those specific scriptures is wrong. I don’t want you to reply about anything else as it is not what our discussion is about. We are discussing only about whether those poor innocent babies that are aborted by a sinner, will be allowed into heaven.
            Otherwise you are prevaricating because you can’t prove them wrong and you just want to keep trying to redirect me to make me forget the original discussion and NOPE when someone challenges what God’s Word says, I won’t be distracted. I do not like to be treated with such disrespect but I will never let anyone mock my God. NEVER without standing up for what HE says in His Word.
            I am still standing on what HIS WORD says.

          • Tony Demarcus, Ph.D., D.D.


            What no answers to the Christian’s questions that used direct Biblical quotes, in their full historical-grammatical context? I didn’t think so! Should the Christian ask you yet again to back up your vacuous claims with actual Scripture? LOL, run off now, with your tail between your legs. We’ve seen your kind before, whereby you make up your own ideas and then cherry-pick few verses out of context to supposedly back up your bogus claims. Until you actually use the Christian Bible, true Christians will continue to refute your false man-made claims that go contrary to the “doctrine we learned” from the Christian Bible.

            PS. You have been reported for threatening the Christian–which you did within your message above. Disqus doesn’t stand for threats or harrasment–their rules, not mine!

          • Eldrida Urika

            I didn’t bother to report you so you think that was a threat when it was worded to inform you? I have never nor would ever threaten anyone as I know how to word things in ways that are about informing you about the rules not Threaten you.

            You want scriptures. GREAT I’ll do a work up of each of the scriptures I have mentioned to you and since we had so many back and forth posts, I have to make sure I don’t miss one so give me a little bit of time to gather what you need to prove I am not “one of those KIND” (as in I really can give you proof and not by cherry picking scriptures. I don’t need to there is only so many scriptures about the children and heaven so it is a very simple things to find if you had tried.
            OK that’s what you want right? Scriptures? OK I’ll just go do that as I am confident about everything I put.

            Sorry, disobeying Jesus’ commands? That’s just wrong in Every way you can look at it. There is no other way to look at God’s commands. He calls them commands and they are listed very clearly in the Gospel. When a King tells a servant to jump, they jump, or they will be disciplined for not obeying. If you cannot give Jesus enough respect to do His commands do you really think he wants souls that would not obey His commands here, to be there so they won’t follow His desires in heaven?

          • Tony Demarcus, Ph.D., D.D.


            No Biblical answers to the Christian’s questions, still? It’s something that ought be really simple for you–you just look it up in the Christian Bible and present the relevant verses within this Christian symposium in historically and grammatically consistent manner! Very simple isn’t it? Just like when you where presented with Biblical evidence relative to this matter in several of my comments and replies. In the Christian Bible, 2+2 still equals 4!

          • Eldrida Urika

            Nope I refused to give them to you. The ONUS is on you to prove me wrong not on me to prove myself right. So prove that those scriptures do not say what I told you. Those particular scriptures no others

          • Trilemma

            ”In the Christian Bible, 2+2 still equals 4!

            Are you sure?

            And the sons of Shechaniah; Shemaiah: and the sons of Shemaiah; Hattush, and Igeal, and Bariah, and Neariah, and Shaphat, six. – 1Chronicles 3:22 KJV

            According to this verse in the Christian Bible:

            Even if aborted babies go to Hell, they don’t spend eternity there. Hell is a temporary place of residence according to the Christian Bible.

          • Eldrida Urika

            Can you please tell me where that scripture is? I don’t recall that at all.
            Everything I know about either Heaven or Hell is that is is an Eternity that is set and there is no mention of time except Eternity.
            I’m quite curious from hearing there is a scripture that says that.
            I appreciate any information you can give me about it.

          • Trilemma

            And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. – Revelation 20:14-14 KJV

            As you can see, at some point everyone in Hell will come out to be judged according to their works and an empty Hell will be cast into the lake of fire.

          • Eldrida Urika

            Ok so I have to look at the chapter and see what else is there to find out whether I agree with your belief. I am intrigued by it because I have never heard of it before. I am expecting to speak to my church leader about it as well.
            I will definitely get back to you to let you know what I find out from my own and perhaps an Incredible Man of God’s help.
            Thank you for pointing it out as a scripture that is obviously being seen by others as perhaps not accurate? But I love to be able to try to see what someone else has had their eyes opened to by the Lord. He is my life and I want to do everything I can to do my duty to bring more to the Lord, and most of the NT is focused on Love, and the focus given to sins by Jesus were to teach us about what kind of things are sins, so we know what kind of behavior it like that so we can correct it and become closer to God through our obedience and the knowledge he has given us. He wants us to change to being more like him in behavior so we can attain that level of closeness to him. His commands are not wearisome. His Yoke is not heavy and If anyone is a good person it is not a lot of changes in the first place. It is mostly how to behave in random situations to give us the way to deal with it and it is done in a way that is timeless and good for all generations.
            I have the feeling yours might be similar in at least some aspects.
            Blessings until next time!

          • Eldrida Urika

            Stop trying to make me out like I am lying without BOTHERING to look
            them up. You see if you had Bothered, you would know why it is Truth,
            and all your rude ways of speaking to me – a sister of faith? – would
            have seen and replied to that, not all the other things you have beaten
            around to avoid looking at those scriptures. This whole thing would have
            been over in 2 maybe 3 posts if you had just taken the time to read
            find and read the scriptures instead of trying to push other scriptures
            that are not about children specifically like the scriptures I am
            So yea I’ll give you the Book and Chapter, but it is up
            to you to TROUBLE yourself to actually look at the chapter and find
            out that the scriptures DO back me up.
            So do I bother to find them
            or are you just going to make it a waste of our time by not reading them
            again and ignoring what THEY say. because it is not my word, it is
            You know, if I were in your position, I would have looked
            them up at the very beginning so when I wrote all these mocking posts,
            I would make sure I wasn’t going to be embarrassed when the other
            person proved their point and you were fighting against something that
            isn’t my words at all.

            They are God’s Word, not mine.

          • Eldrida Urika

            This first:

            That is a reason to flag your comments if you keep being discourteous to me. Disqus rules, not mine. I don’t want to, but if you continue to try to ruin my reputation as a servant of Jesus, that is why it will happen.

            So you took THAT as a threat of some sort?
            I said it as a warning because of Disqus rules not a threat.
            I was saying that I can remove your nastier comments about me by doing that and how it can be avoided (by stopping the rudeness)
            Not an intentional threat and you know if you read past the place where you have to open more text, you would know that you should not be so un-Christian in the way you treat me, unless you
            are ignoring Jesus’ command to treat people the way You want to be treated, you are telling me to treat you badly and I will not.
            I will not have Jesus’ words mocked.
            Try referring to something you know is not about a scripture, if you must mock me, but do not ever mock what God’s Word states in the scriptures. If you want to keep your eyes closed to what I am saying go ahead. You seem to think I would gain anything out of this and Jesus is the only one that I ever rely on in the scriptures.

          • Eldrida Urika

            So, I think if YOU have decided not to confirm my words are from the scriptures and mean Exactly what I have said.

            So why exactly do I have to show you when you are the one that wants the scriptures confirmed?

            According to Jesus the scriptures are proof of him and it is up to each of us to confirm what they say. To make sure what you hear is the actual Word of God. Since it has, I am confident about it.

            I have people search the scriptures for themselves because it allows them to have the control. If they choose not to look, not to listen to the scriptures, that is their choice, not mine. All I am doing is telling you to look since it is you that must look, not me that must prove.

          • Eldrida Urika

            I have told you if you don’t want to, I don’t care. I am tired of repeating myself over and over and you not reading my posts
            completely. If you can’t deal with this by searching the scriptures
            then OK don’t.

            I only ask for people to look at scriptures when I direct them to them, I tell them to read them for themselves and let them confirm what I say and either accept or deny it, with the whole purpose of you looking for the scriptures it will be YOU that sees them and decides what ever. I told you about it, look for yourself.
            The ONUS IS ON YOU, not me. I know those scriptures and apparently you do not, so I think it would be best if you looked for the scriptures I directed you to about Jesus telling them to let the children come to him and what it says about children and heaven.
            So if you don’t want to look, I’m done explaining.
            I think I’ve long-suffered with you long enough and I’m choosing to move on.

          • Eldrida Urika

            No it is not.
            1. It is the sin of the person who decides to abort.
            2. It is not the sin of the child who is killed. (innocent)
            3. No one who would consider an abortion is going to be a believer. so our beliefs cannot be applied to that person.
            4. Jesus won’t put an innocent in hell. There is no reason to; they have NOT sinned.
            5. God is righteous and Just and putting an innocent soul into eternal punishment is not either of those.
            Here’s the kicker:
            6. It is said plainly in the scriptures that Jesus said the little children will be in heaven.

            Innocence tops sin in this case because of whose sin it is.

            If someone gave a person a drink without knowing someone poisoned it, is it actually the sin of the person who gave them the drink, or the person who spiked it with poison?
            It is the later.
            Same as an aborted baby. It has no choice in it’s death. none whatsoever. It has not existed in life so it has no sin. Except the original sin, which is covered by the Grace that Jesus said forgives ALL sin.

            So YOU are the one focusing on the baby as if it was a sinner, instead of the actual sinner who is the one who made that decision about those babies.
            So by being so arrogant as to think to twist what God’s Word into what YOU want it to say, you are missing the Truth by not looking and proving me wrong with the scriptures I have cited as the reason it is wrong. Those that say the children would not go to heaven are the ones in error, not God.
            As I said, Go find that scripture and prove that what they say is not what I have said. Go ahead. I look forward to your proof in those scriptures because I am confident in what God said, so if you can find proof that God did not want the innocent souls to not suffer for sins they did not commit, GO FOR IT!!!
            I’ll be here waiting. So If you don’t read my whole post, you won’t know about this challenge and won’t reply with that mentioned at all, you will again arrogantly tell me I am wrong and continue to teach others incorrectly.

            Abortion is not about the baby when it comes to sin, it’s about the act of murder and has only that to connect it to the child. It is not their sin to be killed, it is someone who is responsible for the death.

            Try to look at sin as to who is committing it and will be punished for it, not who is – what do they call it…. collateral damage to someone else’s sin. Like a drunk driver killing a pedestrian, it is the drivers fault not the person walking along the sidewalk.


    • Trilemma

      John 14:6 says, “no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” The verse only applies to men and not to women and children.

      If the only way to get to Heaven is by accepting Jesus, then nobody living in Old Testament times could have made it to Heaven.