Illinois Boy Who Identifies as Girl Sues to Use Girls’ Locker Room to Change for Gym Class

Photo Credit: ABC7 Screenshot

CHICAGO — An Illinois teenager who was born male but identifies as female has filed a lawsuit against his school district as he claims that he has been prohibited from using the girls’ locker room for gym class. The district says that the legal challenge does not correctly cite the accommodations that have been offered to the student.

The 18-year-old, who goes by the name Nova Maday, says that he is unhappy with the outcome of talks with Township High School District 211 and asserts that that he has to use either the nurse’s office or a separate single-user locker room at Palatine High School to change his clothes.

“I just want to be treated like every other girl in our school,” Maday said in a statement after filing suit on Thursday. “Even after the school district agreed to allow another transgender student to use the locker rooms in her school, they have resisted and made things harder for me. I just want to be able to get dressed for P.E. class without having to jump through a bunch of hoops.”

According to the Chicago Tribune, Maday sent an email to his teachers in his freshman year to advise that he identifies as a girl.

“Information about me. First, I’m transgender. In case you are not fully sure what I mean by that, I do not identify as male, like I was assigned at birth. Instead, I identify as female,” he wrote. “I would like to state that my chosen name is Nova, and I would ask that you call me by this in class …”

While teachers began calling Mayday by his preferred name and pronoun, he was advised that using the girl’s locker room would not be allowed.

His lawsuit, filed by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), asserts that because Mayday has had to change in a separate location, he has missed notes on the wall advising where students would be meeting for physical education that day.

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“Isolating and singling out Nova from the other girls by forcing her to dress separately for P.E. and requiring her to at times wander the halls looking for where her class was being held were extremely upsetting experiences for Nova,” it reads.

However, the school district says that the lawsuit is misleading and does not correctly represent the accommodations that have been offered to Maday.

“District 211 has provided caring and responsive supports for transgender students who daily use bathrooms and locker rooms of their gender identity in multiple schools,” district Superintendent Daniel Cates outlined in a statement on Friday.

“The allegations in this lawsuit misrepresent the accommodations extended to this student and District 211’s approach to working with and supporting transgender students. Every transgender student in District 211 who has requested use of the locker room of their identified gender has been offered such access, along with other supports within an individual support plan.”

“The Illinois Department of Human Rights has already dismissed this case, stating there was no evidence of discrimination,” Cates continued. “We will vigorously defend and protect compassionate, fair and equitable support for all students, and, at the same time, we continue to defend our supports for transgender students at the federal level.”

As previously reported, Township High School District 211 was previously in headlines over a similar request as an unidentified high school student requested to use the girls’ locker room at at William Fremd High School as he had been diagnosed with gender dysphoria.

But the district declined, citing the privacy concerns of the female students. It in turn offered a private location to change, but the student rejected the accommodation. He then contacted the ACLU, which filed a federal complaint with the Office of Civil Rights of the U.S. Department of Education.

The Department of Education responded by opining that the district had to permit the student to use the locker room of his choice due to Title IX requirements. The two sides continued in talks for a number of months, but the district held firm on requiring privacy for female students while offering various options for the transgender student, which were refused.

It said that it desired to “to protect the privacy rights of all students when changing clothes or showering before or after physical education and after-school activities, while also providing accommodations necessary to meet the unique needs of individual students.”

The Department of Education recommended that the district install privacy curtains in the changing area so that he could not see other students changing and female students could not see him. The district installed the curtains, but as negotiations remained impasse, the department gave district officials 30 days to settle the matter under threat of penalty, including the possibility of the loss of $6 million in federal funding.

The district soon voted to allow the accommodation for the student, but not without much objection from parents. In May 2016, 51 families, representing 73 parents and 63 students, sued the Obama administration over the matter, contending that it is unlawfully distorting and redefined the meaning of Title IX, and is forcing its wrongful interpretation on school districts.

“We support providing accommodations to students who request one, but the locker room of the opposite sex is not a reasonable accommodation, nor is it compassionate to their fellow classmates to demand this,” Vicki Wilson of D211 Parents for Privacy told the Chicago Tribune in light of Maday’s lawsuit.


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  • Tony Demarcus, Ph.D., D.D.

    This is exactly the case for bringing back old-fashioned morality and norms to our schools! When the T-man was a middle- or high-school student, well before I got Saved, such disgusting depravity would’ve never happened even among the satanic (a.k.a. non-Christian, Matt 12:30) population! If the father of that child wouldn’t have tanned his hide really good to set him straight, no pun intended, there would’ve always been pastors, teachers, other students, and every other member of the community. A nancyboy like this would’ve really had it, and would’ve been shamed daily until his family would move away, to where nobody would’ve known about him having been the queer that he was!

  • Amos Moses – He>i

    the direct result of NO OBJECTIVE MORALITY ………..

  • Amos Moses – He>i

    Nation Fondly Remembers Time Just Two Years Ago When Everyone Said Gay Marriage Wouldn’t Affect Christians
    December 6, 2017

    • brine

      I remember many ‘professing Christians’ in the public eye going all weak kneed and saying “What’s next…this could lead to polygomy” as if that was the threat. Once you reach the bottom of the barrel on the sin list there isn’t much left not to acquiesce to on a societal level. Once professing Christiandom turned their back on truth the blind celebrated not realizing their hope had greatly diminished if not ended.

      The vast majority of ‘churches’ started tampering wholesale with the Gospel 50 plus years ago which led ‘churches’ being overrun by ‘religion’ where salvation is a mental ascent and work of man via some religious formality dependent on the denomination. Pulpits are filled with hirelings, congregations are largely ignorant of anything other than their proof being ‘God wants everyone to be happy so if it makes you happy that is your truth.’ Now practical holiness is considered legalism and emotion trumps truth. Sin is ignored because ‘God is love and has no discernment’. If our ‘experience’ doesn’t match the Word we don’t question the experience but the Bible. Accepting sin as normal and something to be embraced instead of abhorred is a natural fruit born from these things.

      Our local ‘Christian’ college has LGBQT celebration week demanding that students and the community buy into the farce or you aren’t being ‘Christlike’. Evil seduces waxing worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. Having a form a godliness but denying the power thereoff. Ever-learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Scoffers, mockers walking after their own lusts. Turning the truth of God into a lie. On and on and on, with people bearing the name of Christ to afraid to speak up for fear of ‘persecution’ or being labeled contrary to what the world thinks as acceptable. Its all there in the Book very clearly…line upon line, precept upon precept….line upon line, precept upon precept…here a little and there a little.

      Christians that take scripture and prove things by the Word are now considered trouble makers dividing the flock and causing conflict. You can’t question anything because the Jack Hyles crowd bought into his lies, even spreading outside of his denomination leanings because it gave cover for the entire mentality of man as in charge (while spouting they are just servants).

      We demand God experience us our way on our terms as opposed to being conformed into His image and submitting to His will and way. We’re toast as a nation and will suffer the same fate as all other nations that have turned their backs on truth and righteousness. Worse than plagues and fire falling from heaven (which the mockers demand as proof of God) is Him taking His hands off and leaving us to our own devices, which is exactly what He said He would do when chastening was pointless…although the other things will still consume the land in their own time. And when the fire does literally fall and the earth wobbles like a drunken man…the proof they demanded…the Bible states that people will still refuse to repent but look to the heavens and curse God. I usually say ‘God help us’ but the truth is, as a whole, we don’t want His help because we don’t like His terms.

      • PREACH!!!!

      • This style 10/6

        Scandinavia seems to be doing fine without god.

        • ppp777

          That’s what you think .

          • This style 10/6

            No, that is what the figures say, on homicides, life expectancy, quality of life, etc. The Scandinavian countries are paragons. Look at the Norway has handled its oil wealth, their oil fund is heading for a trillion dollars. When the oil runs out they will have a pile to play with.

          • ppp777

            It is in truth a hell hole that is being taken over by islam , and Island has the highest rate of antidepressants on earth by far , so much for secularism .

          • This style 10/6

            You are either misinformed or lying. Which island are you referring to?

            The US is very religious and has a far higher crime rate than Scandinavia.

          • ppp777

            Iceland , America is a pagan / communist country now , it turned its back on Christianity a long time ago .

          • This style 10/6

            Iceland is hardly a den of vice.
            Unlike all those pagans.

          • ppp777

            It certainly is , it is a nation of bastards .

          • This style 10/6

            No child is a bastard. That is a dead concept, at least amongst decent folk.

          • ppp777

            According to God they are , that makes it an absolute .

          • This style 10/6

            What an unpleasant entity that god of yours is.

          • This style 10/6

            Anti-depressant use: Iceland 106/1000; USA 110/1000.

          • TruthvLIes

            So life is all about money. As they say, money won’t make you happy but it sure makes being miserable easier.

        • TruthvLIes

          Is it. So having rapes increased a 100 fold is doing well?

          • This style 10/6

            Sweden, for example, has a very severe view of what constitutes sexual assault. Rapes have not increased 100%.

          • TruthvLIes

            According to the report I read they have, so who do I believe a reputable report or a stranger who has an axe to grind?

          • This style 10/6

            Give me a link to the report.

    • Silas Jennings

      This isn’t a gay marriage story. It isn’t even a gay story.

      • brine

        Nope but that is the wedge that opened up the floodgates of all this perversion.

        • Silas Jennings

          Nonsense, that’s outdated thinking and bigotry.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            again ….. that requires an OBJECTIVE MORALITY that you lack ….. so again ….. JUST YOUR OPINION ….. and meaningless …………..

          • DrIndica

            And you are privy to this objective morality? You won’t find any such thing in that book you seem to like.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Moby Dick? ………..

          • Maxwell Edison

            Mocking Christianity. Flagged.

          • Silas Jennings

            No she wasn’t. She was making a statement about objective morality.

          • TruthvLIes

            And you have proof of that I assume?

          • Silas Jennings

            Just like yours then. We are even. One opinion is no better than another.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “Despite your attempts at moral superiority”

            nope …. your moral opinion is based on YOU ….. mine is not based on me ….. and you even called it “SUPERIOR” ….. whether you want to acknowledge it or not …. you have …. my accepted OBJECTIVE (outside of my experience) MORALITY …. is superior to you ….. it is superior to me …. and your attacks on it ….. is not an attack on me …… it is an attack on morality …… that YOU recognize as superior ….. even though you deny it ……… so even in your attempts to deny its superiority to yours …. you acknowledge that it is, that it does exist, and that it out ranks you ….

          • Silas Jennings

            My moral opinion isn’t based on me, it’s based on common decency and empathy. I don’t kill other people because it’s not nice. I wouldn’t even know how to. The difference is you don’t kill because the Bible commands you not to. I don’t need a book to tell me that.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “My moral opinion isn’t based on me, it’s based on common decency and empathy”

            yeah …. see …. right there …. YOUR OPINION ….. and the “common decency and empathy” …. again … JUST YOUR OPINION …… “you don’t kill because the Bible commands you not to” … again …. that REQUIRES an OBJECTIVE MORALITY that you REJECT …….. you only have YOUR OPINION that has any validity ………..

          • Silas Jennings

            I have opinions like everyone else, but I don’t claim to be an authority, as you are doing. I don’t know what point you’re making. It’s my opinion not to kill and rape and pillage and every other horrible thing…find me ANYBODY would would say otherwise. What’s wrong with that? I’ve already told you the difference between you and I in this regard. I don’t do immoral things because I understand human empathy and decency and don’t believe in harming others. You don’t do immoral things because you blindly obey a book.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “empathy” is a FRAUD as having any meaning whatsoever ………. the A-THEIST Kim Jung Un has all kinds of “empathy” for himself and N. Korea ….. so just more FRAUD that A-THEISTS are trying to pull …….. and YES …. your only motivation is to set yourself up as JUDGE as to what is truth and what is not ….. we do not care …. we KNOW the truth ….. you do NOT KNOW the truth or it would not have to be proven to you ….. and we are not going to justify the truth to you to satisfy your need to be in control …..

          • Silas Jennings

            No, empathy means having the ability to understand and share the feelings of another person, and if you haven’t got that, I feel sorry for you. There is NOTHING fraudulent about it.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you have not got any basis for your morality with that claim of “empathy” ….. if so … then show it ….. but it does not exist outside of your head …………..

          • Silas Jennings

            What are you asking me to do, point to some divine book that tells me about how to be a decent human being as though I’m not capable of figuring it out for myself?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you asked for the truth to be given you ….. you do not want the truth …. you reject the truth …. in fact …. you have just rejected again ….. and you are NOT capable …. or you would do it and you would not be asking …………

          • TruthvLIes

            I get the impression that you believe that everyone thinks the same as you do. If that were the case, why do we have jails?

          • Silas Jennings

            Ask me a question worth my time and intelligence. Otherwise don’t bother.

          • This style 10/6

            Doesn’t really matter what you say, Amos is convinced that a ravening horde of atheists is ready to rape, pillage, murder at the drop of a hat. Just like those ancient Israelites.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            his name is Kim Jong Un ……..

          • This style 10/6

            Is a man who is treated like a god an atheist? All the atheists I know are very peaceable.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you are one and you do ….. and he does …..

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            North Korea nuclear blast IMMINENT? US deploys ‘nuke sniffer’ as WW3 on brink

            he is one of yours ….. or is this going to be “No True Scotsman” ….. erm …. No True A-Theist ………….

          • This style 10/6

            Kim’s belligerence has nothing to do with atheism. It is power politics.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            sure it does …. he is one …. so you are saying “No True A-theist” ….. hmmmmm …..

          • Silas Jennings

            There is no such thing as no true atheist, nor a-theist.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            yeah …. and no true scotsman …. RIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT ………..

          • Silas Jennings

            You want, oh, I don’t know, about 25 separate web links to the logical fallacies, including that one?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            RIIIIIIGHT ….. because it will prove it does not apply to A-theists …….. RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT ……….

          • Silas Jennings

            No True Scotsman applies to ANYBODY who thinks they are the ones who get to say who is a true or false member of whatever group you want to name. You do it constantly, saying group X is not really Christian because they practice Y.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            SO IT DOES APPLY TO A-THEISTS ….. thanx for your opinion ….. we agree on something …..

            “You do it constantly, saying group X is not really Christian because they practice Y”

            NOPE …. i say it because they DONT hold a certain CHRISTIAN BELIEF that is CENTRAL to being a CHRISTIAN …..

            tofu and turkey ….. NOT THE SAME THING ….. now you can make tofu LOOK LIKE TURKEY ….. but guess what …. IT AINT TURKEY …… and you can label it ALL DAY LONG AS TURKEY ….. but it AINT …… and the same applies to PHONEY CHRISTIANS ………

          • Silas Jennings

            If an atheist was practicing snobbery by telling another atheist he wasn’t a true atheist? Yeah, technically I guess it could happen, but it never does. Probably because atheism isn’t a religion.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            yeah … “snobbery” …. not part of the definition of NTS …. FAIL ……….

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            so when you go to McDonalds ….. and you ask for a Quarter Pounder with cheese ….. and you get your order ….. and you open it ….. and there is just a bun with ketchup and mustard and onions …… and you go back and say “Where is my burger and my cheese” …. thats just YOU BEING A SNOB ………… do you even get how stupid you sound ……. because the BURGER IS CENTRAL to it being a Quarter Pounder …..and so is the cheese you asked for on it ….

          • Silas Jennings

            Some Christians baptize infants. (In fact, MOST Christians baptize infants). You tell the MAJORITY of Christians who do this that they’re not real Christians. But those Christians, using the SAME Bible you do, baptize infants, and can give you their scriptural backing for doing so.

            But you don’t care, and you aren’t willing to listen to their reasons. You just say “False Christians” and walk away. THAT is No True Scotsman.

            And you are now trying to take this ridiculous snobbery and apply it to atheists “No true atheist…WHAT???) and hamburgers? Face it, you do NOT UNDERSTAND this fallacy despite several very clear examples and are grasping now to try to save face.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            again … NOT A CENTRAL TENET ………… and it demonstrates your near complete lack of knowing what you are talking about …….

          • TruthvLIes

            “Some Christians baptize infants. (In fact, MOST Christians baptize infants).”

            Tell me, why do you enjoy sounding so ignorant abut things you know nothing about?

          • Silas Jennings

            Catholics baptize infants. Therefore “most”. You lose.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            The No True Scotsman fallacy could apply to any group. There’s a good reason it’s commonly not used on atheists (at least, I’ve never seen it!) – there’s only one thing that makes an atheist an atheist; a lack of belief in any gods. There are no teachings that you must follow, no tenets you must hold to, or anything like that.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            but it does not apply IN THIS CASE ….. when you order a burger ….. and all you get it the bun ….. then guess what ….. IT AINT A BURGER ……..

          • TheKingOfRhye

            The thing is, you started this line of conversation by saying people like me or Silas Jennings would invoke the No True Scotsman fallacy in order to distance us from the likes of Kim Jong-un. Unless I’m not seeing some comments here, I don’t see that going on. I wouldn’t make that argument myself. I don’t think it’s his atheism or lack thereof that made him what he is. From what I’ve read about that whole “juche” thing, it could be described as an atheistic religion. (Note, that doesn’t mean I’m saying atheism IN ITSELF is a religion!)

          • TruthvLIes

            You are joking of course. Atheism is a religion like any other religion. If not why do they have 35 churches in America? Only religions have churches.

            Seems I know more about your religion than you do. Your god is me, myself and I.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Again, all atheism means is not believing in any gods. If not believing in a god is a religion, then bald is a hair color, “off” is a TV channel, not playing baseball makes you an athlete, not collecting stamps is a hobby, so on and so on. I know atheist churches exist, there are even atheist religions, as a matter of fact. That doesn’t mean atheism [b]in and of itself[/b] is a religion. Someone could be an atheist and also be a Unitarian Universalist, a Buddhist, or a LaVeyan Satanist, or probably some others I’m not thinking of. Or they could be none of those things, like most atheists.

            Well, though, if you know SO much about atheism, even more than the actual atheists themselves, then what ARE the tenets of atheism? Who is its leader, its central figure? (whatever you come up with ought to be good for a laugh if nothing else)

          • TruthvLIes

            Another post from an atheist in denial. The report I read came from atheists.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I guess I should have known better than to think that you would actually answer a question I directly asked you.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            What ‘report’, and what did it say? Like I said, the existence of atheist churches does not make atheism a religion.

          • ThroatwobblerMangrove

            Yeah you really need to stop thinking that atheism is a club.

          • TruthvLIes

            No of course not. That is why he hates Christians.

          • This style 10/6

            I think he doesn’t discriminate, he hates everyone.

          • TruthvLIes

            Obviously you know very few.

          • This style 10/6

            I know a good many. Are you really telling me that the average atheist is violent?

          • TruthvLIes

            No, I am telling you that research is never based on anecdotal evidence.

          • This style 10/6

            So where is your research which says that atheists are more inclined to violence?

          • TruthvLIes

            The fact is it is not Christians that are ready to rape, pillage, murder at the drop of a hat. And before you make some asinine comment about christians, occasionally it does happen but it is the exception to the rule as research shows that if you have a religious background you are not likely to fall foul of the law.

          • This style 10/6

            How come the jails are filled with Christians?

          • TruthvLIes

            Yawn! An atheist who will say anything because he can’t handle the truth.

          • TruthvLIes

            Excuse me but how do you know a person blindly obey a book? You have such a low opinion of yourself to characterize everyone like that.

          • Silas Jennings

            I care enough about myself not to believe what an old book says just because it’s an old book.

          • Trilemma

            Your morality is based on your opinion as well. It’s based on your opinion of the Bible.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope ….. sorry …. wrong again ….. OBJECTIVE (outside of ones self) MORALITY does not have an internal locus …….. FAIL ……….

          • Trilemma

            It’s still your opinion that any morality that you have accepted is objective.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope … again …. basic failure to understand the term ……..

          • Trilemma

            Using your definition of the term.

            Your judgment of morality is heavily influenced by your personal feelings and opinions of the Bible and therefore not objective.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope ….. OBJECTIVE MORALITY ….. ELIMINATES my opinion or judgement ………

          • TheKingOfRhye

            No, it doesn’t. You made the judgement that the Bible is the source of objective morality. Others do not make that judgement. And still others have a different opinion on what that objective morality of the Bible says about certain things. You can say those people are wrong, but that’s not the point.

          • Trilemma

            Too much alcohol will also eliminate your opinion or judgment.

          • TruthvLIes

            I don’t drink alcohol so that claim is irrelevant.

          • TruthvLIes

            I don’t know who “your” is but I can assure you that my morality is not at all influenced by my feelings.

            When I have a moral dilemma, I first of all turn to the Word of God and if it is outlined there, that is my moral standard. No feelings involved.

          • Trilemma

            You’re certainly free to use the Bible as your moral standard. But it’s your opinion if you say it’s an objective moral standard.

            Let’s say you have a moral dilemma of what to do with a rebellious son. Would you follow the instructions given in Deuteronomy 21:18-22?

          • TruthvLIes

            Trilemma, you must stop showing how little you know about anything. Thou shalt not murder is not an opinion. it is a fact.

          • ppp777

            A person should not commit murder because its wrong [ always ] , despite your feelings , if God says something is wrong that makes it absolute , you are clearly deluded and heading for hell , unless there is serious repentance on your part , but based on what people like you say I won’t hold my breath .

          • Silas Jennings

            Thank God I was never suckered into believing something so equally ridiculous and barbaric.

          • TruthvLIes

            So, when you are burning in hell you won’t blame God?

          • Silas Jennings

            I’m not going to burn in hell. You can if you want to.

          • TruthvLIes

            But the government does. Where do you think it got most of its laws from? Cloud cuckoo land?

          • Silas Jennings

            No, it didn’t get those laws from the Bible, if that’s what you are trying to sell me.

        • This style 10/6

          I imagjne you label anything you don’t like, as perversion.

          • brine

            I label anything God calls a perversion as perversion. Just as God labels some people as fools.

          • Silas Jennings

            God doesn’t. A book claiming to be God? Maybe.

          • brine

            You prove God’s point….fool.

          • Silas Jennings

            Once again, not God, but a book claiming to be God.

          • TruthvLIes

            A book cannot claim to be God because books don’t talk.

          • ppp777

            Not audibly anyway .

          • Silas Jennings

            It claims to speak on God’s behalf.

          • This style 10/6

            I guess I am a fool then. At least I don’t go around hating folk because I don’t like their sexuality. You people are the past.

          • TruthvLIes

            Can I correct a grammatical error in your last comment. You said “You people are the past.”I am sure what you meant was “You people are the best.”

          • This style 10/6

            No, I meant what I said.

        • TheKingOfRhye

          Now as a straight person, I resent that. I was a pervert long before same-sex marriage was legal in this country!

          • ppp777

            Perversion has been always around , but it is now rammed down everyone’s throats , it is now fashionable and your persecuted if you don’t embrace it , and it is getting worse .

      • TruthvLIes

        Your right. it is a very sad story

        • Silas Jennings

          I agree, but you make it worse.

  • Tony Demarcus, Ph.D., D.D.

    Where is the father or the pastor to tan his hide as apropos in order to set him straight, no pun intended?

    • Silas Jennings

      Do you also think that letting a little boy play with dolls will “turn him gay”?

      • Theresa Easley

        It will get him picked on.

        • Silas Jennings

          For sure, but if he doesn’t care and that’s what he wants to play with?

        • TheKingOfRhye

          Kids will pick on other kids for the smallest thing, though.

      • Tony Demarcus, Ph.D., D.D.

        Silas:

        Relative to “boys playing with dolls” mantra, the answer to your inquiry is very simple. Rather than onanising your mind with silly fantasies, you need to open and carefully read the Christian Bible! The Bible teaches us that it is unseemly and disgusting for men to be effeminate, and it is the responsibility of the father to ensure that boys grow up into proper men! It is also important to discipline children to knock any foolishness out of them, to wit:
        “He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.”

        So can a boy play with dolls? Yes, but only if these dolls are proper and manly! Like those of toy soldiers battling the enemies of Christ or those of men involved in manly occupations like carpenters, builders, or preachers!

        • Silas Jennings

          It isn’t a “silly fantasy” to suggest little boys might play with dolls. It happens in the real world, and it doesn’t change a child’s sexuality. Nor is it going to make them effeminate. Those are ancient, tired stereotypes and you’re not doing anyone any favors by keeping them alive.

          A doll is a doll. I know you’d prefer it was carrying a gun to kill another human being, but let the child choose for him/herself.

          • Tony Demarcus, Ph.D., D.D.

            Silas:

            It may happen in situations of parental abuse and neglect, and in primitive countries like Canada. There is no room for nonsense like this in the US, and the Christian will not stand for this! It is very simple math, really: boy toys for boys, girl toys for girls=boys grow up to be men, and girls grow up to be women. So toy soldiers, guns, swords, cars and tools for boys. Dolls, easybake ovens, pots and pans for girls. 2+2 still equals 4!

          • Silas Jennings

            Primitive? If I get sick and go to the hospital through no fault of my own, I’m not on the hook to pay the tab. Tell me again how primitive we are.
            I’d buy the toy for the kid which was the one he or she wanted. You, on the other hand, would inflict it.

          • ppp777

            Who is the boss in your house , it certainly isn’t you .

          • Silas Jennings

            There’s only me so you’re wrong.

          • ppp777

            I would stay that way if I were you , [ totally incoherent ] .

          • Silas Jennings

            Yes, laughing at people who had had family members die sounds like something I should expect from you.

          • TruthvLIes

            Let the child choose for himself whether he carries a gun to kill another human being!!!!!

            Your comments get more shrill by the minute.

          • Silas Jennings

            And you still show as little ability to understand what is being said than ever.

      • ppp777

        It certainly helps to turn him into a reprobate .

        • Silas Jennings

          Got something resembling proof about that? No, didn’t think so.

          • ppp777

            The proof is all around you apart from plain logic .

          • Silas Jennings

            You are free to present some.

    • DrIndica

      Yeah, that’s the answer…kid doesn’t conform to your ideology, beat his rebellion out of him.

      • TruthvLIes

        So typical of those who believe their way is the only way evidenced by the pejorative “beat his rebellion out of him.”

        Who said anything about “beating the rebellion out of a child” I never once did that with my children and my son has never done that with his children. He and I have disciplined them which is quite a different thing to “beating his rebellion out of him.”

        When my son was about 14 years old we were sat down together talking and he thanked me for disciplining him because he knew that if I hadn’t he would be a real ratbag (his words).

        You do yourself a disservice by using pejorative words.

    • Trilemma

      Your attitude toward people in the LGBT community and you opinion on how they should be treated is, unfortunately, all too common. The mistreatment people in the LGBT community receive from people with your attitude is the reason the suicide rate is so high among those in the LGBT community, especially among those who are transgender. That you believe violence against these people is appropriate is very disturbing.

      • Theresa Easley

        The reason it is so high is because they are confused and have a mental illness.

        • Bob Johnson

          So do you also counsel violence against Down Syndrome, left-handness, or other mental illnesses?

      • TruthvLIes

        Trilemma thank you for your pontifical tirade against reality. It is so sad that you refuse to read the bible to see how to bring up children God’s way. Having a degree in Social Science where one of my main studies was the family which included studying research into it, time and time again, those parents who were guided by the scriptures as to how they should raise their children always came out on top.

        My son is a classic example. He has ten children and they can take them anywhere because they have been taught how to behave in public. In fact, many times a complete stranger has come up to them and complimented them on how well behaved the children are.

        And in case you are thinking that they must be sat upon which you probably are, not so as I have been to the park with them and they don’t stand around waiting to be told what they can do. As soon as they are told what time lunch will be they are off exploring or doing all the sorts of things that they like to do.

        My grandson is so imaginative he can pick up a stick and turn it into 10 different things. He is only limited by his imagination.

        You don’t like God’s way of doing things because you have been brainwashed in all this neo goody goody stuff where you mustn’t hurt their feelings or their backsides.

        I know a single mother by choice who has two children and she doesn’t believe in disciplining them. They are complete monsters.

        I know another one who refused to discipline her son. She said the best way was to reason with him. When asked what the outcome was (he is 18) she said he is a monster and thinks the world revolves around him.

        Funny, none of my grandchildren believe that.

        Parents who discipline “their” way usually end up being controlled by their children as I found out when I was employed as a housemaster at a boys boarding school for juvenile delinquents.

        They were a wild bunch but I loved them all the same. I did not have too much trouble from them because I used the ancient order of the slipper to bring them into line.They respected that because they knew they only got that if they had done something wrong and it helped them determine what was acceptable and what was not. If they were not doing wrong things they got love and attention which they craved so much. If they wanted to talk I always had time to listen.

        Overall, God’s ways applied correctly always work. Man’s way doesn’t.

        • Trilemma

          What exactly in the “tirade” was against reality? If the ancient order of the slipper left a bruise or welt then it was child abuse.

        • carolyn

          Could you provide references as I am fascinated to read the research that says to discipline children according to the scriptures. I never came accross such research myself when I studied Social Sciences.

        • carolyn

          Social science degree and a teacher who physically hits his child. Wow. Your immense education seems to have been wasted.

    • This style 10/6

      Too common an answer unfortunately. Violence is never the right answer.

      • Tony Demarcus, Ph.D., D.D.

        style:

        “Violence” can and often is the right answer for the Christian! There is nothing wrong with violent action, so long as it is Biblical and righteous. Take for example the many action of Jesus within the OT–where He as the OT God destroyed cities of various pagans and deviants just because they wouldn’t fall in line and do what He commanded them! Jesus even aborted babies of those he despised, as described in Hosea 13! Surely, Him rightfully doing that doesn’t give us the right to do the same–no playing God here!

        Relative to raising a child with proper discipline, that is not violence but what the nature and our Bible explicitly prescribe! When a child is misbehaving, it is the duty of the parents, especially the father (Eph 5:23), to administer the “rod of correction!” (Proverbs 22:15, affirmed by example in Hebrews 12:6-7).

        • This style 10/6

          I believe that beating your child with a rod is illegal in most US states. It certainly is in Canada.

          If you can’t raise decent kids without beating them you should not be allowed to have children.

          Most warfare is wrong, Vietnam for example. The war against the Nazis was justified and Japan forced the war on the US.

          • Tony Demarcus, Ph.D., D.D.

            style:

            Relative to your proposition that disciplining a child, as is to be done by parents, pastors, and teachers, is equivalent to beating only betrays your lack of wits and Biblical knowledge! The disciplining of a child is legal everywhere in the US, even in Los Angeles, California where my ministry is located. So what do we tell parents whose children act like they are of different gender or bring up this “transgenderism” nonsense? We tell them to knock it out of them, duh!

            As Christians, we aren’t raising our children to be a bunch of wimps, p***ies, and nancyboys. Got it? We’re raising them to men and soldiers for Christ, just like those that thought for God and our country in various heathen lands and various just and righteous wars in Korea, Vietnam and Iraq. Remember that Bradley Manning, the one that tried to turn himself into a woman? It is treason like that befalls our country from not raising our children right and not using the rod of correction!

          • This style 10/6

            I suppose you realise that you contradict yourself. You also come across as a bigot and bully. Someone who believes that a war based on a lie, Iraq, was righteous. Tell that to the millions who died.

            I am sorry to hear that beating children is legal in the US. I am fortunate to live in Canada, where it is not.

          • Tony Demarcus, Ph.D., D.D.

            style:

            Here’s a suggestion: you may not want to advertise being from Canada as to avoid people laughing at you. You can thank the T-man for these words of wisdom later.

            Relative to corrective discipline of children, it is not beating. Jesus gave you brains, try using them to derive this very simple logical syllogism.

          • This style 10/6

            What do you call hitting kids with a stick or other object?

            I am proud to be Canadian, a country I chose, and will never stop advertising the fact. The opinion of such as you is of no account.

          • Tony Demarcus, Ph.D., D.D.

            style and Silas:

            Your posts here only show why the Christian takes you for the laughingstock that you are! Maybe it is a good thing that the two of you, birds of a feather, live in an effeminate country that’s wetting its pants over our POTUS’ (heathen though he may be) plans to end NAFTA. Well, in our country we still have real men who will not stand for this kind of thing! If a man can’t be a real man, he will be treated like the nancyboy that he is, and will bring shame and disgust upon his whole family. Had his mother, and other sisters of Eve like her, been set straight a long time ago, this manner of freakery would NOT have been happening in the first place.

          • This style 10/6

            Are you afraid to answer my plain question?

            What do you call hitting kids with a stick or other object?

          • Tony Demarcus, Ph.D., D.D.

            style:

            Do you really think this red-bloodies American male preacher is afraid of your inane questions? As they say nowadays, LOL! Your dicacious collocation of simple terms betrays your infantile attempts to muddy the waters about this very simple matter.

            The Christian suspects that you know full well the difference between beating and discipline. Or maybe you got a little cold on the head up there, north of border, so that you cannot tell the difference. Relative to these simple matters, the answer to your question is that it depends on the nature of what is happening, duh! If it is corrective punishment, then it is not a beating. If the adult hits a child (or husband hits his wife) for the purpose of being abusive, rather than being corrective, then it is a beating, and is unacceptable.

            You can thank me for educating you relative to this very simple matter later.

          • Trilemma

            It’s child abuse if an adult hits a child and leaves a mark that lasts more than 10 minutes even if it was for corrective purposes.

            How often do you spank your wife for corrective purposes?

          • ppp777

            People like you leave a lot worse mark on children than a physical beating could ever do .

          • TruthvLIes

            Yes that is quite true. Both my wife and I are retired teachers and we could always tell which kids in the class are disciplined and which ones are not.

          • Trilemma

            People like what?

          • TruthvLIes

            I have been married for 48 years and I have never touched my wife in anger once.

          • Trilemma

            Tony Demarcus Ph.D., D.D. believes in wife spanking for corrective purposes. Have you ever spanked or otherwise struck you wife for corrective purposes?

          • This style 10/6

            So you condone not only child abuse but wife abuse. Men end up in jail for that kind of thing. That is in any decent jurisdiction.

          • ppp777

            Its called correction , discipline , chastisement , beating sense into them , bringing them up to be level headed men and women keeping them out of hell .

          • This style 10/6

            Just your every day family activity then!

          • ppp777

            I will treat that comment with the contempt it deserves .

          • This style 10/6

            I assumed you were using sarcasm. Were you serious?

          • TruthvLIes

            And were you serious comparing disciplining children to war?

          • This style 10/6

            I did not do so.

          • TruthvLIes

            As I have pointed out in another post you did.

          • This style 10/6

            Compounding your lie.

          • TruthvLIes

            Quite so ppp

          • Silas Jennings

            You sound like the kind of guy who when asked what Jesus would do pulls out an AK-47.

          • Silas Jennings

            I live in Canada too. It’s nice here, people don’t beat their children over things that are beyond their control. And practically no one supports your current mockery of a president.

          • TruthvLIes

            More silly comment from an atheist. Because both my wife and I lost our fathers in WW2, I have been interested in what happened. I can assure you that disciplining a child has no comparison to war.

            i did not use a gun on them. I did not beat them to an inch of their life. I did not put them in a concentration camp. I did not kick them in the ribs. I did not feed them on subsistence rations. I did not make them go though drills each day. I did not make them run for hours with a heavy backpack on.

            So if that is the best you can do, perhaps it is better you keep your comments to yourself to save your embarrassment.

          • This style 10/6

            As I did not make that comparison I am not embarrassed.

          • TruthvLIes

            You said and I quote “Most warfare is wrong, Vietnam for example. The war against the Nazis was justified and Japan forced the war on the US.”

            So you did make the comment.

          • This style 10/6

            How does that compare child abuse to warfare?

      • ppp777

        Its because of that attitude the world is in the state it is in now .

      • TruthvLIes

        People who discipline thier children do not use violence which is defined by the World Health Organization as “the intentional use of physical force or power, threatened or actual, against oneself, another person, or against a group or community, which either results in or has a high likelihood of resulting in injury, death, psychological harm, maldevelopment, or deprivation”,

        I have been around christian parents with children for 60 years now and where this has happened I can count on one hand.

        I suggest you drop the pejoratives if you want to be taken seriously.

        • This style 10/6

          I don’t care how you take me. Beating children is wrong and in many places is a criminal offence.
          Men or women who beat children should lose them.

          • TruthvLIes

            I never said anything about beating children. You make the unfounded accusation.

          • This style 10/6

            You certainly implied that some Christian people use corporal punishment on their children and wives.

    • Silas Jennings

      Your solution is to resort to violence. Great.

    • Theo

      We are reaping the results of undisciplined kids. I’m betting these parents were spoiled brats too. Sickening.

    • TheKingOfRhye

      For one thing, she’s 18, so legally an adult at this point…..

  • BravesFan

    You don’t get treated like “all the other girls” because you are NOT a girl, you are a confused boy. Girls deserve privacy, the end. Nobody should be forced to change with a member of the opposite sex.

    • carolyn

      According to your theory, Transboys ie girls who have transitioned to boys, would be forced to go to the ladies / girls changing rooms as they were born female and in your concept NOT BOYS. Not so sure that would go down so well.

      • BravesFan

        Yeah, no. Kids don’t “transition,” they dress differently. And if kids are getting surgeries, that’s medical malpractice and child abuse. Short hair and pants don’t make a girl a boy, and long hair doesn’t make a boy a girl.

        • carolyn

          So you think that a “boy” in your eyes should be forced to go in the gents, where they would be at an increased risk of being beaten up when they are living as a girl. Or a trans boy should have to go into the ladies, and be attacked on leaving? Whether they have actually transitioned or not they go in the toilets that match the gender they are heading towards. The risk to the CHILD of being beaten up for being trans is far greater than any risk to the others in the toilets. The aim of most trans individuals is to “Pass” as the opposite gender and to have a pee / change. The aim of STRAIGHT PERVERTS is to abuse. That has nothing to do with trans people

  • Trilemma

    Nova said, “I just want to be treated like every other girl in our school,” and she should be treated like every other girl at school. She should be treated with the same respect and compassion and have the same opportunities as every other girl. But her body is not the same as every other girl and she needs to accept alternate accommodations in some circumstances such as locker room showers. The body of someone confined to a wheelchair is not the same as every other person so they have to accept alternate accommodations in certain circumstances. But they should be treated the same as everyone else too. Nova needs to accept that her body is male and accept the limitations that entails until she can get gender confirmation surgery.

    • TruthvLIes

      Why should she be treated as a girl when “she” is a boy?

      • Trilemma

        She knows herself better than you do.

        • TSawesome

          Correct answer, Trilemma.

  • bowie1

    Nova Maday looks and sounds like a boy with his lower voice. Does he have no consideration for the girls in the locker room who might be embarrassed to undress with him present even if he identifies as a girl?

    • TruthvLIes

      People on a personal crusade to throw over the traces never consider others.

  • Sam

    You are a boy. Thats what God created you. It dont matter what you identify as Get over it

    • TSawesome

      Sometimes people are born transgender, intersex, with cleft palettes and autistic. Get over it.

  • Maxwell Edison

    It all comes down to three things:

    1) This boy is mentally disturbed.
    2) He wants everyone around him to indulge in this illness, even by force.
    3) No.

  • chickenpatti13

    Why do the normal,modest teenage girls have to give up privacy to placate a freak male that thinks he is a female?I wouldn’t have wanted to undress in front of a male,regardless what he thinks.Why do the freaks get to impose on good,God fearing young ladies and their modesty.They have rights,too,and they shouldn’t be infringed upon by a confused freak with nothing better to do but create chaos and infringe upon the rights of others.

  • Theo

    Child abuse, pure and simple. These parents should lose custody of the kid and never be allowed within a mile of any child, ever. This nonsense would end in a hurry if these abusive parents were dealt with swiftly.

    • Trilemma

      Nova is an adult. But even if she were still a child, foster parents would affirm her gender identity.

      • Affirmation feeds the psychosis and makes it worse. They need Jesus.

        • Trilemma

          Refusing to recognize her identity and forcing her to live as a boy will not cure her of this so called psychosis. There are Christians who are also transgender.

          • He is not a girl. He is under a demonic delusion just as all that is LGBT is.

          • Trilemma

            So, which is it, a psychosis or demonic delusion? A person with a psychosis needs psychotherapy. A person with a demonic delusion needs an exorcism.

          • Psychotic demonic delusion which describes all of the LGBT.

          • TSawesome

            I hardly think you’re qualified to make such a judgement against others, Doug.

          • Oh but I am because I know God and His Holy Word.
            —————

            Romans 1:18-32New King James Version (NKJV)

            God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness

            18 For
            the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and
            unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and
            changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like
            corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

            24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who
            exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the
            creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

            26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise
            also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their
            lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and
            receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

            28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[a] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[b] unmerciful; 32 who,
            knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such
            things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of
            those who practice them.

          • TSawesome

            Verse 23, Doug. This is about idolatry.
            And you still aren’t equal to God and are no one’s judge. Not me, not you, not any human — only Christ.

          • You do know that idolatry is not the only sin listed and/or talked about in this passage of scripture…….right?

            I never claimed to be equal to God. I never claimed to be anything or anyone other than a fellow sinner in need of a Savior.

          • LadyInChrist♥BlessedBeTheLord

            Now I see you’re just out attacking Christians today. Must be making the Lord very sad.
            I will be praying for the Christians you are hating on.I will Pray God will protect them from you and your hate.
            I will for God’s peace upon the Christians you hate.
            This is my last post to you on this site.I will keep my prayers going for the Christians you hate so much.

          • It’s all demonic. Just because the scientific world gives it all different names makes none of it different. You either serve one or the other. You can call it what you want but those who know the truth, KNOW THE TRUTH.

          • Trilemma

            Should Nova seek help from an exorcist or a medical doctor?

          • getstryker

            And apparently, you DO know that truth. Very good. Your comment shows excellent discernment & an understanding of ‘spiritual warfare’.

          • ppp777

            ” Christian ” , now that’s funny .

          • Trilemma

            There are Christians who are transgender. Why do you think that’s funny?

          • Maxwell Edison

            It’s a good thing I wasn’t eating or drinking when I read that one. The woman sitting across from me wouldn’t have appreciated that.

          • TruthvLIes

            I have noticed that Christians are everything if it suits the agenda.

          • TSawesome

            Even hateful against people and things they don’t understand.

          • Kevin Carr

            What does his chromosome pattern say he is? That will never change, he will never have a period, never bear a child or have the potential to bear children, he has the ability (if he hasn’t cosmetically altered himself) to father them. All the surgeries and hormones do is a cosmetic alteration. There will be no change to his DNA or chromosomes, they will still show male. As I stated, if a person is anorexic or bulimic, they are not accommodated in that belief, why? Doesn’t what they believe about themselves override everything else? Can what they believe be an indicator that there is some mental and/or spiritual issue.

          • TSawesome

            See my comment above about the woman who was found to be “XY” with 95% Male DNA — and gave birth. Chromosomes do not determine gender, they only start development in one direction and there are numerous other permutations than simply “XX” and “XY”. YOU could be “X”, “XXY” or a host of other variations and not even know it unless you were tested.

          • Kevin Carr

            That is an extremely small part of the population you don’t make policy based on that minute percentage, if the other girls do not want to shower with him they shouldn’t have their privacy thrown out to accommodate him, also that was not the subject of the article.

          • TSawesome

            Kevin, respectfully, we don’t shower in a big room together. Every women’s changing facility I’ve been in has had separate showers with a small changing area attached. Most girls are modest and a transgender girl even moreso. She just wants to quietly change and go about her daily life just like everyone else.

            All of the trans people that I know are this way: quiet, unassuming and definitely not trying to draw attention to themselves. They aren’t looking at anyone else; they just want to change and leave without incident or being accused falsely. (The few that I know are several transwomen and a transman)

          • Trilemma

            Nova’s chromosomes are most likely consistent with her male body but DNA doesn’t determine everything about a person. If that were the case then identical twins would actually be identical.  You are correct in that gender confirmation surgery is cosmetic.

            If a school has a student who is anorexic or bulimic, the school will accommodate the student. The school will not try to physically force one to eat or the other not to eat or purge. It’s not the school’s place to make the anorexic student not be anorexic or the bulimic student not bulimic or the transgender student not transgender.

      • ppp777

        He not a she , your just as reprobate as he is .

    • Tony Demarcus, Ph.D., D.D.

      Theo:

      You are correct relative to the right course of action here! The child needed to be taken into CPC custody a long time ago, and should’ve been put into a good Christian boarding school. There, they’d knock all this nonsense about him “being a girl” or “feeling” this or that rather quickly! What these effeminate boys need is a boot up their a** in proper manly environment, not “accomodation” to play into their fantasies.

      • Trilemma

        Child protection services would never knowingly put a child in the abusive environment you seem to think is appropriate. Such abuse would not do any good anyway.

  • Eldrida Urika

    I thought of a perfect solution for anyone who is not male or female or whatever, make a 3rd change room washroom with the idea that the ones that are not bothered by the transgender child can go in with them to change too. I’m focusing on not making the transgenders stand out from the rest, or the people who use the gender specific rooms that are uncomfortable with the situation There should be no reason that they are considered anti transgender because they are not comfortable if all the other time they do not reflect that. No stigma or anything to make them or anyone need to give up the privacy of those that want to keep it, including Christians. So one would be anyone’s (even restricted by times is reasonable) or genderless for everyone to use and the other two allow for the privacy of the others too. It’s a win win for both sides and when in the future these might not be necessary, it can be changed, but it would be worth the money for them simply because of how long this acceptance is going to take, so when it isn’t a problem, it can be removed.
    I’m curious if anyone can say this is encouraging or discouraging our beliefs because they will not change if we are truly faithful, and it is a fact that, unfortunately for ‘some’, they are here and our children need to be taught both our beliefs and how to cope within the world as an adult or young adult, with those beliefs intact, so tolerance is the only way to go that will not likely cause problems.
    Keep in mind this young generation has friends and classmates who are different and they are already able to accept them because of the mingling at school, makes it normal to those kids. If we were in a situation where there were transgender in our work, we’d better be tolerant of their difference or be fired in the businesses today.
    You also have to remember that high schools have a lot of diverse people in them and too many ways to accommodate all the things that are coming up in this World of theirs. They have taken our ability to pass on The Word away from the school and have left us no choice but to learn tolerance regardless of what we feel if we are to be or work in that world. People are getting fired for it, for the Lord’s sake, and that’s unreasonable because their belief is equal to our belief and should be allowed to exist just like their belief is as long as the verbal abuse is not accepted by society, they can live in peace with the people who are comfortable and the ones that are not, are able to choose which belief they want to align themselves to from the 3 choices.

    • TheKingOfRhye

      I’m all for gender-neutral restrooms (after all, we’ve had them in various places for a while, called “family restrooms”) but it’s simply not practical to go install them everywhere there might be a transgender person.

      • Eldrida Urika

        family rooms are there for the opposite sex parent to be able to be in the same room as their child (fathers with daughters, mothers with sons) that was the intention when they came into existence.
        Gender neutral is still an offense to a lot of people King, and it does not have to be intolerance if it is only about privacy issues either
        By having the choice, everyone has the same privileges not one over the other.
        I am very against force when it comes to decisions made for large people and I think it is being looked at wrong in this case.
        By giving the people who want to feel included with the ones they feel they are a part of , you are taking the right of privacy from any who do not want to be in that situation.
        In this case anyway, it isn’t about the minority and the majority. It is about individuals in every case. one against the other should have equal rights and this is allowing that to be upheld.
        It is like this, in case you didn’t understand that… One transgender in a school wants to be with the other – lets say girls – so they want the equal right to choose and use the bathroom/change room they want to. right?
        So one – or more – are not comfortable with the idea, but others are not troubled by it at all, but it is still on an individual basis not as a group against it. Each student should have the right to choose and not be put into uncomfortable situations any more than the trans student is asking for. it is the exact same right to each person giving them the choice of where they want to be and it allows for the transgenders to be with the people they want to be included with.
        The thing is not about one majority of people against one minority. It is about each person involved not as a group.
        so everyone has the equal right to be able to have that choice possible
        Does that help with this issue? that is why I feel every issue has to be looked at on it’s own and not looked at as one of the ‘other’ cases because there can be differences like this that should have made the difference in a law/ruling too.
        a blanket ruling that one person can change the majority is not considering all aspects of each case at all, they are giving all the rights to those minority at the cost of removing those rights from others when there can be some things that are not actually about minorities and majorities but the individuals and not the groups. which makes it a thing about the same equal rights the trans want but for everyone.
        Blessings King. I will be off line shortly for a while so I will look for you when I get back ok?

    • ppp777

      Oh boy .

      • Eldrida Urika

        oh boy…. You again!! lol I’m glad to see you before I am off for a while.
        Health issues are a plague at my age unfortunately.
        I am guessing you don’t agree with the solution? It means we still have the ability to have privacy we want and it means they don’t have a privilege that we don’t also have this way.
        I will look for you when I get back.
        God bless you! Take care of yourself until I return ok?

        • ppp777

          Yes its me again , I won’t spoil things by commenting on those individuals [ as tempting as it is ] , anyway I was watching a very immotional music track on you tube , well I will tell you about it when your better , at the moment may I wish you God speed , and thank you for the good wishes .

  • Vince

    What kind of future would you predict for this young man? Does anyone think he will be happy and well-adjusted when he’s 30? 40? I think we all know the answer. Thanks to the ACLU and his doting (and foolish) mother, he’s been programmed to see himself as a victim, and someone deserving of special treatment. He’s being taught that instead of achieving success on his own, as an individual, he’s merely the innocent victim of evil forces outside himself. Over his lifetime, psychologists and the drug companies will make a fortune off him and others like him.

    • Silas Jennings

      You’re right, she probably has a very difficult life ahead, so why do you think the solution is to fight her on it? Why would you force on her the very thing that’s making her life a living hell? Where is your compassion?

      • Playing into his psychotic delusion is only making it worse for him. Like all of us, he and his parents need Jesus.

        PS…..love that beagle pic.

        • Silas Jennings

          She isn’t going to be any less of a transgendered person with Jesus in her life, nor any other historical figure.

          • Jesus is more than just a historical figure. Jesus is God and God is Jesus and they both are the Holy Spirit. He loves us. He created us and He gave His life for us then rose from the grave 3 days later just as He said He would. I was a drunk and a drug addict for 20 yrs and because I gave my life to Him I have been clean and sober since 1997. There is nothing He cannot do. He healed me and saved me from my sins just as He has done for literally millions before me and He can do it for this young man, for you and for anyone else that comes to Him and surrenders their life to Him.

          • getstryker

            PTL brother – an inspiring testimony!

          • Yes indeed. Praise The Lord!

          • carolyn

            He created this individual trans

          • That is not true.

            God is not the author of confusion.

            God does not create sin nor tempt anyone to sin.

          • carolyn

            Children who are 4 or 5 years old are known to be trans. They do not say they are trans, they just get on with being themselves and become dreadfully unhappy when forced to be the sex of birth. They do not realise that they are meant to be a certain way and these days we are more aware of the issue and do not bully kids to conform by calling them “Cissy” or tom boy. 5 year old children are not sinning, they do not understand the implications of it, they just are. They just get on with being who they are. It is adults that batter them to conform when what they are doing is NATURAL. They are made that way by God and parents have to struggle to come to terms with it. Even religious parents. It is who they are. Google My transgender daughter is a beloved child of god. One religious family having to deal with something that is totally out of their experience as it is reality.

          • Children that age have no idea what is going on when it comes to things like this. They are naturally inquisitive and live in a world of make believe and play. Unfortunately there are now perverted adults who are bent on that which is evil and influence those around them in an attempt to make it look like their perversion is the norm. They are among the worlds worst child abusers when they influence these little ones to mimic their disgusting thoughts and actions. This is all from Satan and not one shred of it is from God for this leads to sin and God does not create sin nor cause anyone to sin.

          • carolyn

            Yes children have no idea. They just get on with being themselves, which is very clearly not the gender of their born sex. I already told you that Trans is assessed by INSISTENCE, CONSISTANCE and PERSISTANCE. This is not some whim or inquisitiveness. It is when the conclusion is inescapable and parents have to wrestle with the issues till they realise it is a reality.

            What on earth are you on about, perverted adults influencing children to make their perversion look like the norm??? First of all, being trans is not a perversion. It is about SELF IDENTITY. It has nothing to do with sex or sexual relationships. I think I am a girl / boy. NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH SEX.

            Second – please tell me where 5 year old children have access to trans adults to be influenced? You are talking nonsense. 5 year old kids spend their time at home with family or at nursery or school. Please tell me how they are being influenced by perverts? You have no idea what you are talking about and need to stop and think what you are saying. Do people leave their children with total strangers? No they do not. Really. Start thinking and maybe even watch the video I asked you to google.

            No child is being influenced by perverts. They are just being who they are which is trans. If you had a child who was trans, you would understand. YOU DONT and you do not know what you are talking about.

            By the way, TRANS ACTIVISTS are merely campaiging to make it so that kids who ARE TRANS, do not have to go through the kinds of attitudes, ignorance and hatred that people like yourself are expressing. THEY ARE NOT CONVERTING ANYONE. In the past, kids who were trans were forced to go back in the Trans Closet and hide who they were, only getting the courage to come out as trans in later life. HIDING WHO THEY ARE. IN THE CLOSET. Trans activists are trying to stop the hatred and get people rights. THEY ARE NO MORE RECRUITING PEOPLE THAN DISABLED ACTIVISTS ARE. Seriously go educate yourself. You are totally ignorant. Watch the video.

            By the way, this is such a serious issue that it is coming in that it will be deemed as child abuse to suppress a childs natural identity. This is a real thing. Just because YOU have no idea about it, does not mean that it is not real. God created these children and these days people are realizing and allowing them to be who they were meant to be rather than suppressing them from young.

            The knowledge is moving on regardless of what you and your ignorance thinks.

          • All that is LGBT is a perversion and a sin.

          • carolyn

            LGBTI – I for interesex. PHYSICAL REALITY that shows that what body parts you have is not the deciding factor. Gay people fall for someone who has the same body parts as themselves, when we know that body parts are not the deciding factor. Intersex have some body parts that are ouit of synch. Trans wouild say that all of their body parts are out of synch. Not a big leap. You can be LGBT and celibate. How is that a sin? How about you look at rape and murder and violence and theft and etc. Being gay is not in the commandments. The other things are. Gay relationships are consensual, but you focus on this rather than rape and child abuse? Your priorities are wrong. It is for GOD to judge anyway, not you and the bible says that LOVE covers the law, as if you LOVE, you would not hurt others. How aboiut you demonstrate a little of this principle.

          • smh

          • TruthvLIes

            I already told you that Trans is assessed by INSISTENCE, CONSISTANCE and PERSISTANCE.””

            If that is the case who do so many give it up when they are older and wiser?

          • carolyn

            If there is not INSISTANE CONSISTANCE AND PERSISTANCE then they are not Trans. References for your comments? No?

          • TruthvLIes

            You are 100% right Doug.

          • Dena Newman

            Kids who are 4 or 5 are not trans. Girls who like to climb trees, play in the mud and play with cars are girls who like those things. Boys who like to play piano, cook, and dance are still boys who like those things. I raised lots of children of my own & in my daycare. We encouraged them to like the things they enjoyed, while still affirming their GOD given gender. You people are brain washing these children. You will stand before GOD someday and account for this horrific child abuse

          • carolyn

            You clearly have NOT dealt with one who is Trans. As I said above the definition is if the way they are has INSISTANCE, CONSISTANCE and PERSISITANCE. You did not have anyone that this applies do. Do you think that the parents of these kids just go – Oh all right then? They are faced with children who are extraordinarily unhappy being their “GOD GIVEN” gender and even suicidal and they have to wrestle with something that is as much a puzzle to them as it is to you, but they are FORCED to accept what is clearly reality and seek help to deal with it.

            Do you think for one minute that they want their child to have to go through all the hatred and condemnation that they get, particularly from so called “Christians”, all the uncertainty and worry. If you think that they are somehow “Brain washing” their children, you are deluded. These days, it is considered to be child abuse to NOT support your child, to allow a child who is SUICIDAL and to NOT seem the medical and psychological help that they need, which is to help them to transition. All this involves at this stage is to dress in the opposite gender and live that way until puberty, when after 6 or so years in this life, they may then have puberty hormone blockers.

            Do you really think that you could make a child eg a boy dress as a girl for 6 years if they did not want to? Please do some research as your comments are totally ill informed and based on your experience with kids who are NOT trans.

            By the way. There are people who are born INTERSEX. This means that they are not MALE or FEMALE, but fall in between – on a continuum. There is NOT just MALE OR FEMALE as it mistakenly says in the bible. There are also intersex people, who either have internal or external organs that do not coincide with their genetics, hormone receptivity which means they do not develop according to their genetics, or even inbetween genetics. These are PHYSICAL differences, nothing to do with choice or lifestyle. ie they are GOD GIVEN. NOT EVEN SEX is straight forward, never mind Gender. The world is not as straight forward as you would like it to be. Feel free to read up, rather than insisting that the variety of life that exists does not exist. IT DOES.

          • TruthvLIes

            Still shouting I see carolyn. You really must have your hatred and anger dealt with otherwise it will be the death of you.

          • carolyn

            Den shouted GOD, but of course you would not pull her as you are a hypocrite looking for any excuse to vent YOUR repressed anger. I am not angry. I am stressing a point.

          • TruthvLIes

            That is 100% correct Dena. Some psychologists who have got their heads screwed on ans are not jumping on the trans bandwagon to make money kn ow that it is child abuse.

          • ppp777

            Its a he not a she , get the basics right .

          • Silas Jennings

            I meant what I typed.

          • TruthvLIes

            I woke up today and thought “I am going to be a show pony today because I want to know what it is like to have four legs.”

          • Silas Jennings

            Having fun making an absurd trans-species comparison?

          • carolyn

            As you full well know, sex and sexuality and gender are not that straight forward, but you clearly “Cannot handle the truth” demonstrated by intersex. You must have a very boring life Lies vs Truth, when you sit here on your computor arguing the same stuff over and over despite it having been demonstrated that it is not that simple.

          • Kevin Carr

            When someone is anorexic or bulimic they are told or guided to get help for what they believe about themselves, with transgenders they are accommodated for what they believe about themselves, why the difference

          • carolyn

            Because doctors have researched this issue and know that it is a genuine issue and that people are “fixed” by transitioning. Bulemia in the end will kill you. Living as the opposite gender will not and it is proven to work. Elsewhere I have referred to people who are INTERSEX. They are born on a continuum between male and female and they prove that even in physical terms, there is not just male and female as it says in the bible. The bible is wrong. Intersex individuals might have internal or external body parts that do not fit, genetics which do not match their body parts, or hormone receptivity differences. Whereas an intersex person might have one or other reproductive organ that is out of step, a trans individual might say that all of their reproooductive organs are out of step – Hardly a big leap. The world is way more complex than you know. There is also research that says that trans individuals have brains which resemble those of the gender they want to trannsition to. These days children are supported to live as the opposite gender. If they are not allowed to, they suffer depression and suicidal thoughts and parents wrestle with the issues until they realise that what their child is exhibiting is real and inescapable and seek the help of the medical profession. No parent wants their child to go through this. They support them as they realise that it is real

          • Kevin Carr

            Every time these conversations come up the proponents jump to the extremely small percentages of intersex people, that is no where close to the norm, societal policy is not made on the very small minority.

            Your biological sex is not assigned, it is determined by you DNA at conception. Every cell in your body is coded male or female, you cannot alter that, ever. You can only alter the outside (cosmetic). If it is just identity, why alter the outside? An identity is not biological, it is psychological. It has to do with
            thinking and feeling. Thoughts and feelings are not biologically
            hardwired. Our thinking and feeling may be factually right or factually
            wrong.

            The main point of this article is this boy wants to impose his wishes on a locker room full of girls, he is not like them, will never be like them, Will never experience the same things as all girls do (insert minor percentage as the norm here).

            What is the long term effect of puberty blockers and hormones on the body? Bodybuilders and some other athletes have risked their lives in a quest to get bigger and stronger by taking hormones and the out come in the short run positive for them, in the long run negative, Galatians 6 will come into play a harvest will come in and it won’t be pretty.

          • carolyn

            Societal policy needs to take on board everyone. Intersex people are assigned one or the other when they are not and the doctors historically have then operated on them, by definition without informed consent, in order to make them “fit in” cosmetically with the idea that there is only one or the other. Often they have got it drastically wrong and they have later identified as the gender that the doctors got rid of. It matters not one jot that there are not many of them, although in reality it is as common as having red hair. If you had had body parts cut out, you might think that it was pretty important.

            After acknowledging that INTERSEX individuals exist, you then say that your biological sex is NOT ASSIGNED, it is determined by your DNA, which is in every cell of your body. Well if you are intersex, with an in between genetics, then clearly that is not true. You are assigned male or female when your genetics may be eg XXY or XXXY Kleinfelter. There are others too. YOU ARE NOT MALE OR FEMALE . What if your genetics are male, but you have no male member and you have a womb which they later grow, so you give birth to kids. What gender do you adopt if your genetics falls in between?
            There are people who are intersex who were raised male, even fathered children, to later find out that internally they are female. I often post about one “Man” who had always felt he should be a woman, who suppressed these feelings only to find out in routine tests, that he as indeed half way to being female internally, so he then transitioned. The world is not as clear cut as you would like it to be. What is it that defines you as a girl? Who is to say that someone will never experience the same as a girl? Giving birth when you are genetically male is pretty female?

            Are you aware too, that there are trans men, ie women who transition into men. According to you you want girls who have transitioned into MEN, to go in the ladies toilets. If you saw a trans man in the ladies – as you force that by YOUR definitions of what should or should not happen – I suspect that you would have something to say about that.

            For someone to transition, the feelings they have have to be INSISTANT PERSISTANT AND CONSISTANT. They are not suppored to transition unless it is VERY clear that this is who they are. Intersex proves that what genitalia or genetics you have is not the deciding factor. Trans is no different. When it is a child, being forced to remain in the biological sex causes them to become suicidal. When they are supported to transition – simply to live as a woman or boy (no surgery or blockers until puberty) they WILL experience much of what the opposite gender experiences. There are genetic girls who do not have periods or cannot have kids. Who is to say what does or does not make you female or male. YOU? Only the person can know. It does not afffect you, so you do not know.

            A harvest is to come from people transitioning? Actually there was a harvest before, from NOT transitioning. Depression and suicide. The harvest that there is now, is MUCH HIGHER MURDER RATES, from people spouting attitudes like yours which mean that some feel entitled to attack trans individuals. How is that good? Trans people are battered to death on a regular basis, by people who say it is not natural? By people who say it is against God.

            Can I ask – why you asked the question if you do not want to hear the answer?

          • Kevin Carr

            Where did I say I did n’t want to hear your answer? I understand what you are saying however how do you create social policy to accommodate more than just male and female? Intersex is not common enough to do that. A doctor with parental consent should be the ones to make that decision. Again, the point of the article wasn’t intersex people. Your main point is to show what is not the norm, and not the point of the article. Don your chromosomes and DNA matter at all? Again, if a anorexic or bulimic feels that way, why should anyone interfere? It is off course how they feel and feelings trump everything, right? The Trans that are battered by other is unfortunate, it still is against God. Christians should take a more compassionate approach, but never sacrifice truth, I would encourage you to visit Walt Heyer’s website for a different view from someone that lived it.

            As to the subject of the article, should the girls rights take a back seat to a boy that wants to use their locker room? Completely undressed, (sing the Sesame St. song, one of these things is not like the other). Wouldn’t he have to stay on hormones his entire life? Why?

          • carolyn

            Most of the surgeries that take place are for cosmetic reasons only and based on us insisting that there is only male and female. It is rare that surgery takes place for essential medical reasons. Operations therefore are genital mutilation without consent. Parents are often lied to that it is necessary. No it isn’t and INTERSEX individuals are campaigning to stop this genital mutilaation that may prevent them being able to have children later, eg if Gonads are removed. Around the globe intersex people are campaigning to get it that you can have male female or intersex on your birth certificate. This is now happening through court challenges. Why on earth should policy not reflect reality? It does not matter to you as you are not intersex. This is necessary and there is absolutely no reason why it cannot happen. IT IS THE TRUTH. It also then stops surgery taking place on people for only cosetic reasons, to falsely make them one or the other when they are not. It is very important. If someone believes they are female and they marry a man and only later, eg on fertility tests, find out that they are genetically male, they may unwittingly be in a same sex relationship (technically) when it may be illegal. Around the globe there will be many who do not have access to medicine, who are actually in same sex marriages without knowing. It is not a same sex marriage. It is an intersex marriage. They technically do not exist and are not alllowed to marry. Historically when intersex status came out, people were told they should not be married. Marriage needs to be made regardless of sex, to make legal those WHO ARE ALREADY MARRIED without knowing their status.

            Christians should never sacrifice truth???? I have just shown you that what you are used to is NOT THE TRUTH. What genitals you have is not the defining factor. What genetics you have is not the defining factor. They do not always matter. That is a FACT. It is the case with trans. Intersex have the wrong reproductive organs. Trans would say they have the whole set wrong. We may not know all the mechanisms, but we know tht it is not straight forward and doctors know that trans is real – it is not just feelings and it needs to be dealt with.

            Please tell me where it says in the bible that trans is against God? The bible makes no reference to trans being against god. In fact, there is reference to Naturally Born Eunuchs in the bible (INTERSEX) and also MAN MADE EUNCUS, where men, often slaves and captives were CASTRATED in order to USE them to guard women who were viewed as posessions. So in fact, in the bible they did perform operations on people to alter their sexuality where it suited the powers that be.

            There is a major hypocricy too if you say that you should not interfere with what God gave you of you are trans, BUT doctors then interfere with what GOD gave intersex people. It is all nonsense.

            A “BOY” does not want to use the locker room. A trans girl wants to use the locker room. PERVERTS ABUSE. Not trans girls. And as I say, you would have testoterone filled trans boys, girls who transitioned to boys, in the ladies locker rooms. Why is that not a problem?

          • Kevin Carr

            The Bible says He created them male and female, not my words, His, did he make a mistake and mere humans can do better? The article was in reference to a boy wanting to use the girls locker room, you and some others are the only ones that need lab testing to determine male and female. When I hit puberty I didn’t need a lab to tell why I liked the female of the species. The way he is built says boy, the confusion is head, same as anorexic/bulimic.

          • carolyn

            The bibles words. Written by man. Not gods words. The bible also refers to Naturally Born Eunucs. ie intersex individuals. If you are going to say it is gods word then god also referred to people who were not male or female. You cant have it both ways. They also knew that in castrating men you could make MAN MADE EUNUCHS. ie they knew that sexuality was down to hormones. ie it is natural.

          • Kevin Carr

            If the Bible is just man’s words then none of it can be trusted, The people that wrote it were inspired and moved by the Holy Spirit to write what they wrote, it has stood all time and has a very strong audit trail, more than any other book. Don’t quote it as you really don’t seem to believe it, just written by some people.

          • carolyn

            There is no proof of God. It goes on faith. What is an audit trail? It has been written and re written many many times, that is known about. How can it have been re written if it is gods word? There is no verification of what it says. That is just a fact. FAITH.

          • carolyn

            “you and some others are the only ones that need lab testing to determine male and female. When I hit puberty I didn’t need a lab to tell me why I liked the female of the species ” Oh look. Where you said the comment about lab testing that you just told me you never said, and that it was me that said it. You either have an EXTREMELY SHORT MEMORY or you are prepared to out and out lie?

          • Kevin Carr

            All this time I found the ones with lady parts more appealing, while in school and the military the ones like me (man parts) chased the ones with lady parts. Silly us, we should have carried a few scientists and lab techs to tell us what we are and what to like, but how would they know what they are? Confusion reigns, nobody knows what they are and who is qualified to tell them? Obviously not God either.

          • carolyn

            The individual knows who they are. YOU do not. Who are YOU to tell people that you know better than them? God made them that way. Feel free to google My transgender daugher is a beloved child of god – one religious families struggle to come to terms with what they realised was inescapable reality.

          • Kevin Carr

            Question? Are you female and how do you know?

          • carolyn

            I presume I am. However I have never had genetic testing, so it could materialise that my genes say something else. Have you been genetically tested? Do you know if you are male?

          • Kevin Carr

            Why would you presume such? Didn’t need all that, I have a twig and berries and fathered two children with a person who has the physical parts that oddly enough compliment mine. She smells different from me, soft. To think for centuries without testing people figured out opposites attract, and can procreate. The bible clearly states God made them male and female. The only thing you can point to is intersex, as if it is just as common as people with six fingers.

          • carolyn

            Did you even read my response. INTERSEX PEOPLE are on a continuum. They may have the body parts of a girl but be genetically male. They may marry a man believing that they are female, only to later find out that their genetics say different. There is a “man” who always felt he should be a woman who fathered 6 kinds only to later find out on routine tests that internally he was female. Feel free to google
            – Man goes to hospital for kidney stone, discovers he is a woman. Not everyone can or does procreate, even if they are not intersex. God created MAN WOMEN AND INTERSEX. They were even mentioned in the bible, then ignored in the binary classification. Naturally Born Eunuchs. Your bible is just plain old wrong to say there is only man and woman when intersex are even in the bible. You seem to have a problem with evidence that proves you wrong. It does not matter how many there are, but in reality it is said it is as common as people with red hair. Way more common than people with six fingers. You cannot say that everyone is man or woman – except for those who arent. NOT EVERY ONE IS MAN OR WOMAN. FACT. They are now being recognised on birth certificates after legal challenges. Reality. How about you start to deal with it?

          • Kevin Carr

            I read your response, what was the subject of the article again?

          • carolyn

            You keep saying such as “The Bible says He created them male and female, not my words, His, did he make a mistake and mere humans can do better? The article was in reference to a boy wanting to use the girls locker room, you and some others are the only ones that need lab testing to determine male and female. ” And I keep having to repeat that things are not that straight forward. What body parts you have does not necessarily define SEX, never mind gender. Which bit of that are you refusing to hear. BODY PARTS DO NOT MAKE GENDER, even in physical terms. You can have a womb and be genetially male. You can have male body parts and be internally female. So trans individuals too can have the wrong body parts – the whole set. Others have in between genetics such as XXY or XXXY. It is not hard to understand, unless you are just determined not to hear. Sex and gender are not clear cut. Just because we cannot explain it all yet, does not mean that it does not exist. You can stick your fingers in your ears and say la la la la la as much as you like, but the world is realising that it is not straight forward and DOCTORS are supporting people to transition as that is what is right. Your views are being consigned to history. Your religion will become obsolete unless you deal with it.

          • Kevin Carr

            I never said anything about needing lab testing, you did. Those with male genitalia tend to be ???? BOYS!, Those with female genitalia tend to be ??? GIRLS! And yes there is a difference. Once again what you are talking about isn’t even the point of the article, and are as common as people with six fingers or toes. When have I stuck my fingers in my ears and done the nonsense you are talking about. There are also doctors tha do not support the position you are advocating. I did ask you to read some of the things Walt Heyer has written because he lived it. Talk about fingers in ears, pull yours out. My relation with Christ will never be obsolete and is not based on Trans, and XXY, XYY, or any chromosome pattern you can come up with. Christ is not and will not be obsolete,

          • carolyn

            Well you either have zero memory or you are just an out and out liar. Here is your quote. I commented after the comment to point it out to you again “The Bible says He created them male and female, not my words, His, did he make a mistake and mere humans can do better? The article was in reference to a boy wanting to use the girls locker room, you and some others are the only ones that need lab testing to determine male and female. When I hit puberty I didn’t need a lab to tell why I liked the female of the species. The way he is built says boy, the confusion is head, same as anorexic/bulimic.”

            Please stop. You are showing yourself up,

            Female genitalia tend to end up as girls. BUT NOT ALWAYS. Male genetialia but not always fully male. FACTS.

            I have repeatedly told you how the point is relevent. Genitals do not tell the whole story. FACT proven by intersed. Men and women start off in the womb the same, hormones etc then differentiate the two. This does not always happen and some end up in the middle. FACT. Can you explain to me why men have nipples? Wny? Becuase men and women start off the same. Gonads are ovaries etc etc . It does not always happen even in physical terms and clearly wires get crossed in terms of identity. Hardly surprising when we start off as one.

            And as common as red hair. How about you LISTEN and be educated and start to take on board REALITY. The world is not as clear cut as you would like it to be,

            Most doctors do. Some – dont, but the world is researching and moving on. Those that do not are often from Christian / Conservative back grounds and will not accept it. As for Walt Heyer. I looked at his stuff. References from CONSERVATIVE groups, who are pushing a view and biased. Some of the references given are 13 years old. Knowledge is moving on. In the end it is one person and actually he proides Very little evidence. It is his opinion and saying that people do not get jobs etc, remain depressed is about discrimination and societies attitudes to people, such as the attitudes that YOU express. If there was acceptance, as there is in some cultures, the outcomes would be different. How do you think people are going to be affected by people denying their existance, telling them they are going against god, that it is a sin etc. If you were being attacked like this all the time, strangely YOU TOO would be depressed. There is a parallel in terms of countries where gay marriage has been legalised. Mental health rates are improving as they know that they have rights and are equal. Acceptance. Stops the depression. Some people go back in the closet due to such attitudes. Walt Heyer is ONE person. He does not speak for the majority.

            PIease tell me how your views and approach is about love and acceptance as god preached.

            I did not say that your relation with christ will be obsolete. I said that your religion is becoming obsolete if you do not deal with reality. The whole point is that it is for each person to define THEIR OWN RELATIONSHIP TO GOD. NOT FOR YOU TO SAY WHAT YOU FEEL IS AND IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. You shouild concern yourself with YOUR OWN relationship with god and let god judge. It is not your place to.

          • Recognizing_Truth

            I get it now.
            Red is Blue, unless you think it’s Green, then it must be Purple. And just because it looks Red, absorbs the wavelengths of light that define Red, and everyone else is in agreement it’s Red, you still hold to the fact that it’s Blue, or possibly Green, or maybe Purple. But definitely NOT as simples being Red.

            Intercolor!

          • carolyn

            Your example describes YOUR approach. Intersex people are not intersex people if a doctor says that they are male or female and chops out their body parts to make them what they are not. INTERSEX PROVIDES ACTUAL PROOF THAT THERE IS NOT JUST MALE OR FEMALE and therefore that the world is not as straight forward a YOU would like to believe it is. You can deny it as often as you want, but like a doctor chopping out the body parts of an intersex person, you will not be able to make them Male or Female when they are not.

            Funnily enough though whilst you say that Trans cannot change bodies to match their gender, you think that chopping up an intersex person CAN change them to match a gender THE DOCTOR CHOSE FOR THEM. Hypocritical or what. It is either right or it is wrong to interfere with what god gave someone. You cant have it both ways. Trans CANNOT choose to align insides and out, but doctors can FORCE operations to align insides and out in relation to intersex individuals. Nope.

          • TruthvLIes

            One of the best descriptions I have ever seen!! Do you think they suffer from colour blindness as a result?

            I wonder if they have to have an operation to be intercolour?

            And have you noticed that Carolyn will never use one word if 10 will do?

          • TruthvLIes

            God created MAN WOMEN AND INTERSEX””

            Did he now? Then why did he keep saying and Jesus concur he created male and female with no mention of intersex?

          • carolyn

            Naturally born eunuchs. Intersex. They dont have the hormones that most men have and end up different. Why would god “invent” naturally born eunuchs then not mention them and say there is only man and woman. Maybe because the bible is written by man and not by the chap who invented Naturally Born Eunuchs.

          • Recognizing_Truth

            You make less and less sense each time you post this misinformation. You keep adding to it, to try to justify parts that others have shown are are non-sequitur, incompatible, mutually exclusive, unfounded, untenable, etc.
            You’re just making their point for them – that your position and claims are flights of fancy devoid of facts.

          • carolyn

            Do show me where ANYONE has shown that what I am saying is unfounded etc etc. I am the only person giving facts. You and others are not. Feel free to carry on saying what you are saying. Intersex IS being recognized on Birth certificates, Doctors ARE being sued for surgeries that were without consent. Doctors ARE helping trans individuals to transition. That kind of proves that I am right and it is YOURSELF that is in denial and that if you carry on, your religion will become increasingly onsolete. If you CHOSE to google, you could find all the information you need. You CHOOSE not to. Your views are becoming history. Like it or not.

          • TruthvLIes

            People are driving intoxicated so that proves my contention it is safe for people to drive intoxicated.

            What religion are you talking about? Here is a clue. There are 42,000 of them.

            That by the way is a question so lets see if you answer it.

          • carolyn

            Well that comment makes no sense once more.
            The point was directed at Recognising Truth. Not yourself. He can answer if he likes.
            It is however a CHRISTIAN site

          • TruthvLIes

            As expected you can’t answer my question or should I say refuse to answer my question so lets try again.

            What religion are you talking about and that by the way is a question so let’s see if you can answer it.

            Of course he can answer if he likes. I am not stopping him and I don’t know why you have the silly idea I am.

          • carolyn

            I answered your question. Try reading it again.
            Please also point to the part where you think that I demonstrate “the silly idea” that you are stopping him from answering? Nope – it is not there. Either your comprehension of what I wrote is way out, (certaiinly for someone who claims to have 4 degress AND be a retired English teacher – OR YOU ARE JUST BEING MANIPULATIVE ONCE MORE. Tragic.

          • TruthvLIes

            Shouting again!! Tragic.

          • carolyn

            Avoidance again. Oh and Parroting.

            You appear to have run out of any answers.

          • TruthvLIes

            So right Recognising truth. She does this because she is totally devoid of the ability to recognise truth. She is motivated by opinion and flights of fancy that are put out by the perversion industry which is hell bent on getting recognition for every perversion under the sun.

            I don’t know how long it will take, maybe five years but the legalising of intergenerational sex is heading our way. When you have no boundaries, men having sex with boys is quite legitimate.

          • TruthvLIes

            Par for the course that when you want to invent something perverted, you invent all sorts of scenarios to justify your madness.

          • Kevin Carr

            That you are so right about.

          • TruthvLIes

            You said and I quote “Trans people are battered to death on a regular basis, by people who say it is not natural? By people who say it is against God.”

            As I have never ever seen any figures that prove this in 30 years, not even in my Social Science studies at university, can you tell me where you get your so called evidence from?

            As you are not big on giving evidence i will not hold my breath.

          • carolyn

            Site is not letting me post links. Hysterical though coming from you who never provides ANY evidence and makes wildly inaccurate statements, misquotes what I have said. Feel free to google trans murder rates and you will find evidence. You have “never ever seen any figures that prove this in 30 years” because you are not looking. Social Science degree. You asked me to prove that I had two degrees and a diploma. How about you prove that you have a Social Science Degree, politics degree, Theology degrees (plural) and no doubt a teaching degree to be an English teacher. I did a Social Science and Trans was not a topic that was covered. They were unlikely then to give this info out.

          • TruthvLIes

            Once again refusing to answer the question. I am so glad that you were not on my debating team at university. If you were, I would have lost everyone. As it happens, I won everyone.

          • carolyn

            I just told you they will not let me post links. How is that REFUSING to answer the question?

            “I am so glad that you were not on my debating team at university. If you were, I would have lost everyone. As it happens, I won everyone.”

            Oh the irony.

            You won people? Don’t you mean you would have lost every one and won every one. Not everyone. That has a totally different meaning. You think you would know that with 4 degrees and a career in teaching English. Sad

          • TruthvLIes

            Being stupid carolyn is not a feature to be proud of which you seem to be and I have told you how to get around the links thing but as is usual you are all hyperbole and devoid of substance.

          • carolyn

            Accusing me of being stupid? The man who claims to have 4 degrees and be a retired ENGLISH teacher, who does not know that An other is one word and that in this context you would say EVERY ONE, not everyone. Do feel free to point out where you told me where I could get around not being able to post links. Nope, you asked me to prove my qualifications and suggested that I e mail them to your e mail address that I have not got. Like I would send someone with a fake id my personal info. No thanks. You are the one whose responses seriously call into question your claims with regard to both your qualifications and experinece.

            You have not told me, as far as I am aware, how to get around not being able to post links, but if you wanted to, you could research the issue yourself. You dont want to though, as “you cannot handle the truth” . Tragic.

            Using a fake id, means you never have to be embarrased about how stupid you are as you never have to be accountable for your stupidity. Slow hand clap to you

          • TruthvLIes

            But then Kevin when has carolyn been interested in the truth? All she has and is doing is regurgitating the same old same old fairy tales of the perversion industry which will tell any lie if it gives them victim status and the support of the government to push their perverted agenda.

            Perversion has become the new normal and what was normal has become persecution. Say you believe that God created us male and female and before you can say Jack Robinson you are up before the thought police courts.

            “Recant or be put in the thought police stocks.”

            I had to laugh when she said intersex is as common as red hair. I have got red hair and there were only two of us in the whole school that had red hair. That means they are nearly non existent.

          • Recognizing_Truth

            Biology affirms “the bible” – there are only male and female genders. “Personality” does not define gender. How you feel does not define gender. What you wish were true does not define gender.

            Anomalies such as having both male and female chromosomes and/or genitalia is a small fraction of a percent of the population, and is evident at birth. There is no “intersex”.

            The rest of your post is fantasy, and not reality, as even the prestigious Johns Hopkins – pioneers of the “intersex” farce and of ‘gender assignment surgery’ – have decades of studying the before and after of those who have been allowed to adopt their “felt” gender and those who have gone ahead and surgically manifested their ‘felt” gender. And the results of the study show that, as they now admit, they were wrong, and that there is no increase in satisfaction, nor decrease in depression ad dissatisfaction, following the “transgendering”. The data proves that this is a delusion, a symptom of other underlying causes of dysphoria and depression. The proper course of treatment is to discover and treat the underlying causes, NOT to enable the delusion.

          • Very well said

          • carolyn

            John Hopkins is designated as a hate group, by a group that monitors hate grops. Race hate etc

            One of the authurs of the report, had an injunction against him for harassing an abortion cliniic doctor, whipping up hatred against this man who was then murdered. He also insisted that a CHILD, I believe she was 10 – should carry a baby to term, when the baby was conceived via incestuous rape. He has also supported Catholic PAEDOPHILES. But hey you carry on backing these people if you like.

            INTERSEX FARCE? People are intersex. That is a reality. Feel free to say that to the face of someone who is intersex.

            What you say is totally illogical. There is ONLY male and female,There is no “intersex” But then then “Anomalies such as having both male and female chromosomes and/or genitalia is a small fraction of a percent of the population, and is evident at birth.” So there is only male and female apart from those who are NOT Male or female. It is not always evident at birth. Some are discovered at puberty. Some are discovered in later life when they have unrelated tests. Around the world, where there is No access to medicine, many go undiagnosed and may eg get married, based on what they were deemed at birth, when in reality their genetics say different. If they do not have kids they are considered barren and will never find out. Technically they will be in gentically same sex relationships, when this might be illegal, without even knowing.

            The approach of John Hopkins too it has been discredited. Proper research, rather than research which is trying to disedit the idea of trans, says otherwise. THAT IS WHY DOCTORS ARE PERFORMING SURGERIES. BECAUSE EVERY ONE ELSE KNOWS IT WORKS . You talk as if INTERSEX and TRANS are the same. They are not. WRONG.
            Depression is higher because people like you, sit there attacking Trans people. How do you think that is going to afffect people?
            Attitudes. Judgement when your god says that you should not judge.
            Everyone stands before god. Even you

            You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Maybe do some research , proper research, rather than simply regurgitating view that add to peoples suicide rates

          • TruthvLIes

            It is no use telling Carolyn the facts or the truth because she does not believe in either of them.

            Her claim to fame is to believe anything that the perverts say which she believes is the absolute truth even when it is a pack of lies and the truth and facts contradict it. Her main belief is never ruin a good story by telling the truth.

            You can tell how bitter and twisted she is by the fact that she believes the SPLC that says John Hopkins is deemed a hate group. She ignores the fact that the group that claims this is the biggest hate group in America.

            They are not interested in anything if they can’t hate it.

            And as for the intersex not evident at birth. Pull the other leg it has got bells on it. Amazing that she believes her own lies as the truth and like all people who do that she believes the truth is hate.

            Definitely needs professional counselling.

          • carolyn

            Many many intersex people are not aware that they are intersex at birth. If you were to do the simplest of research you would find this out. I have posted several examples of people who went to the doctor as adults to find out that they were eg female in side, or genetically different to their exterior. When I have posted several examples of this, saying that I believe my own lies is clearly a lie on your part and your continuing to tell such lies is hate on your part. I have presented TRUTH. It is you that chooses to ignore it. You are a disgusting individual. Full of hate and lies and it is you that needs professional councelling.

          • TruthvLIes

            What a nice lady you are, full of bile and hate if someone does not agree with you.

          • carolyn

            I point out the TRUTH. I give references and YOU deny that truth. I am not full of hate or bile. Calling you out for being an absolute liar is not hate. I am calling out YOUR HATRED AND REPRESSED ANGER. You sit there and say that I would deny stuff even if you gave all the details AND DONT GIVE THE DETAILS of an “article” you refer to. The very definition of irony. I DO give references – it is YOU that is in denial and an out and out liar. It is YOU that is not a nice man. How can you LIE over and over again and say that I cannot handle the truth. Give me one shred of evidence and I will assess it. You dont. You will have to stand before God for your actions. Please stop. Your behavioiur is shameful and you should be embarrased.

          • TruthvLIes

            My behaviour is shameful yet you’re the one that is doing all the shouting and yelling.

            The only thing I am embarrassed about is having to put up with such a nasty piece of work like you on this forum.

          • carolyn

            DOH???? Stressing a point not shouting or yelling and actually YES – given that your behaviour is shameful – you need to be pulled. YOUR BEHAVIOUR IS A DISGRACE and you would not speak the way you speak if you had to be accountable for what you say. If your family knew what you were saying I do not believe for one miinute that they would condone it.

          • TruthvLIes

            Writing in capitals on the internet is considered as shouting. If you don’t believe me ask anyone else here.

          • carolyn

            There are different interpretations and there are no hard and fast rules. What is calling people perverts considered to be? Abuse regardless of whether you use capitals or not. Who would I ask. Despite claiming the popular vote, you are here on your jack with only me for company. Ha ha ha. You love me really – cant get enough of me. You like to be told the truth . . . .

          • carolyn

            For those that may not have seen the EVIDENCE that people find out as adults that they are intersex here are some examples. In countries where there is no access to doctors, people will nevere find out, just conclude they are barren. Therefore we have no idea exactly how many people are intersex and many will be married based on the inaccurate designation on their birth certificate.

          • TruthvLIes

            As I said, It is no use telling Carolyn the facts or the truth because she does not believe in either of them.

            You can post the truth and give the date, time, location, the method of recording it, the people who wrote it, the people who published it, the people who wrote complimentary articles to support it, and as one of my friends did in a book he wrote, provided 700 footnotes to back up what he said, and if it didn’t say what she wanted it to say she would deny everything that the author wrote and make some inane comment to try and justify the unjustifiable.

          • carolyn

            Liar liar pants on fire. The problem is LiesvTruth, you DO NOT POST THE TRUTH. YOU DO NOT GIVE THE DATE TIME LOCATION METHOD OF RECORDING WHO WROTE IT OR WHO PUBLISHED IT, SUPPORTING ARTICLES OR ANYTHING. FEEL FREE TO GIVE THE REFERENCES FOR YOUR SO CALLED “FRIEND”. You even claim a book by a friend but do not reference it. You are a pathetic joke and an out and out liar. If you pressented EVIDENCE, I would assess it. But NOT ONE SHREAD OF EVIDENCE IS PRESENTED. SADDO.

          • TruthvLIes

            Not content to shout you are now yelling. With so much anger the steam must be coming out of your ears.

          • carolyn

            Stressing points not shouting or yelling. Not sure how you make a distinction between shouting and yelling. And of course – no comment whatsoever on the fact that you say I would contradict anything regardless of the details of the reference BUT DO NOT GIVE A REFERENCE and NEVER present ANY ACTUAL EVIDENCE. Please Lies v Truth. Stop this. It is embarrasing. Are you not embarrased at your lies? If not you are beyond counselling. You are seriously dangerous.

          • TruthvLIes

            As I said, the only thing I am embarrassed about is having a moron like you queering the internet with your inane comments, your shouting and yelling and your holier than thou attitude.

          • carolyn

            I cannot post the links. Google
            Woman who was genetically a man gives birth to twins.
            She found out on fertility tests

            Man to have a hysterectomy after discovering he has a womb
            This man had blood in his urine and feared it was cancer, and on tests found out he had a womb and the blood was menstrual blood

            Man goes to hospital with a kidney stone and discovers he is a woman
            This man had had 6 kids. I dare say it was somewhat of a surprise to find out that internally he was female. He had always believed he should have been a female and suppressed this and on finding that he was in fact half way there, he then transitioned.

            These are just three examples.

            Half of the people found to be Kleinfelter where genetcially they are xxy, had no idea that they were not infact just plain old xy.

            All this has been posted many times before so LIES V TRUTH is shown to be an out and out liar. He has evidence that intersex is NOT always evident at birth. How on earth would you tell someones genetics at birth? But he calls me a liar who believes her own lies as the truth and says that what he professes to be the truth, is hate. No actually what you speak is NOT THE TRUTH and is just PLAIN OLD HATE.

            You really need to change your name to LIES v TRUTH as you are a liar. You have NO credibility. Stop spreading your hate. Your hate has a body count. You are a disgrace and you will stand before your god for your hatred. Why are you filled with such rage and hatred LIES V TRUTH? Keep fighting those demons.

          • TruthvLIes

            Poor girl. You really are a demented case aren’t you. Shouting, hating, vilifying, angry, up themselves and downright obnoxious.

            Just where do you get off?

            So sad that you think two or three cases are evidence for wholesale aberrations in society.

            Keep believing your delusions if you want to but don’t expect me to bow at your altar of perversion masked as normal.

          • carolyn

            How are physical condition “Abberations in society”
            How is evidence of INTERSEX – a physical condition bowing to an “altar of perversion masked as normal” Intersex individuals are GODS creation.
            Patronizing and using insults based on mental health. You really are a piece arent you.

          • TruthvLIes

            So you don’t deny your are shouting, yelling, hating, vilifying, angry and downright obnoxious?

            And I am still waiting for you to answer my question.

          • carolyn

            You are the one with huge repressed anger mate. The obnoxious one hating on people you have never met. I am merely pulling you for it and use caps to STRESS POINTS. I am waiting for you to answer how a physical condition is an abberation in society or a perversion. You wont answer as you are just plain old wrong.

          • TruthvLIes

            This same stuff that has been demonstrated has not been demonstrated. it has been argued by one angry person which is you.

            When qualified professionals have said it is child abuse going with the trans thing, I am more inclined to believe them than an angry amateur with an enormous chip on their shoulder like you because you cannot be objective in any shape or form.

          • carolyn

            Of course you will not provide any references to back your lies (other than from Right Wing Conservative hate motivated groups. PROPER research shows that supporting your child is what you SHOULD do. An article about one CHRISTIAN family that was reported by hate filled people like you – making their child fear being removed from parets who love and support them. You really should start to recognise the damage YOUR views cause. Why would anyone deprive their child of treatment that STOPS them being suicidal? Do you want suicidal kids? It is YOU that is not objective as you are talking about something that you have NO EXPERIENCE OF WHATSOEVER. And YES, you need points stressing to you.

          • TruthvLIes

            Still shouting I see. Your anger is showing.

            Your comment ” Why would anyone deprive their child of treatment that STOPS them being suicidal?”

            That is a bit rich when militant homosexuals have forced the government to stop anyone with an unwanted same sex attraction from getting help to be set free from it.

            And you must be as thick as two short planks because you have convinced NO ONE to your way of thinking here so why do you insist on flogging a dead horse?

          • carolyn

            Anyone with half a brain would read back the sentence and if they shouted the words in caps, would realise that that would be nonsensical. As I said the words in capitals are for EMPHASIS, not shouting. No where on any site does it define what caps means and that you are not allowed to use them. But no doubt you will continue to try and hammer the pointless point, to try and undermine the argument.

            No one has prevented ANYONE from getting help to be “Set Free From” same sex attraction. Anyone can get councelling to deal with whatever feelings they have, it is just that when people struggle with being gay it is generally because they face the king of hatred that people like you spout in the name of god. It has resulted in thousands of people over the years being “In the closet” for fear of condemnation. It has never STOPPED ANYONE being gay or trans and they have simply come out later in a society that has grown up, other than a few nearly extinct dinosours like yourself. Councelling usually simply allows people to accept who they are and PROGRAMMES which purport to set people free just do not work, simply pushing people back in the closet. There are testimonies from people who used to run them who have stopped doing so and now ‘Preach’ on the wrongs of such programmes.

            What exactly is a “Militant Homosexual”? They are simply seeking the same rights as you have for everyone. They are not recruiting, unlike the Fundamentalist Christians who regularly knock on peoples doors to try to recruit them.

            “And you must be as thick as two short planks because you have convinced NO ONE to your way of thinking here so why do you insist on flogging a dead horse?” More ad hominem. Insults because you have NO argument. Please tell me exactly how you can verify your nonsensical claim. When YOU are on here spouting your hatred, no one else can get a word in edgeways. You would not know whether I have influenced anyone or not but yes of course you would like me to stop and it clearly enrages you that I do not do as YOU say, when you are a sad individual who has nothing better to do than sit at a computor spouting hatred about people that you do not know. How tragic is that? How unchristian. Not what God said anyone should do.

            It may have escaped your attention but there are about 3 people commenting on here spouting your hateful views. There is a big wide world out there where gay people have won rights and more and more people are finally “Coming out” of the closets they have hidden in and getting on with their lives. Getting married, adopting or raising their own kids, going to work, paying taxes, even going to church. Your views are history mate. Get over it and get a life. Drop the self hatred too why dont you. No one is fooled.

          • TruthvLIes

            Ho hum. More perverted nonsense.

          • carolyn

            Perverted nonsense? Irrational comment.

          • TruthvLIes

            No just the truth which you cannot handle.

          • carolyn

            Lies Lies Lies v truth

          • TruthvLIes

            Sounds like you are regressing back into childhood again.

          • carolyn

            Says the man with the picture of the baby with a tash as his photo.

          • TruthvLIes

            That is too subtle for a moron like you to comprehend.

          • carolyn

            Ad hominem to add to the use of mental health insults. Nasty.

          • TruthvLIes

            Being a moron is not a mental health issue. In your case it is self inflicted.

          • carolyn

            I didn’t say it was. What is your excuse for your behavious. Plain old homophobia

          • carolyn

            The American College of Paediatricians is a RIght Wing Anti LGBTI group, not the offial group that people assume it is.

          • TruthvLIes

            I never mentioned the ACP. You do get some funny ideas don’t you. Anything to avoid the truth.

          • carolyn

            Who then are the “Qualified Professionals” that you refer to. The ACP recently published a report saying the things you claim. If it is some other person or group, then fine. REFERENCES. Betting it is just A N Other such group. How is this “Avoiding the truth”. Not quoting any references EVER is because YOU have no reliable evidence. Doctors are getting on with transitioning people because that is what the research indicates is needed. How about you get some help for your OBSESSION with other peoples business that has nothing to do with you. You really are a very sad little man. The parents of these kids know them best and try to do the best for them after coming to terms with what they are facing. Who do you think you are? Sad sad individual.

          • TruthvLIes

            AS I said, I never mentioned the ACP so an apology from you is in order.

          • carolyn

            No references as to who you WERE referring to, or is this just another lie to back your pathetic argument. I see no apology for the vile things you have said. I have nothing to apologise for. YOU have, but as is the way, you will be accountable before God in the end. Good luck with that.

          • TruthvLIes

            I bet that makes you mad that I am not accountable to you.

            So red herrings are OK with you and lying to boot. No wonder no one believes a word you say.

          • carolyn

            No references then Lies v Truth? Thought not. You are not accountable to anyone. According to your religion, you WILL be accountable to God.

          • TruthvLIes

            What is my religion? Do tell me as I do not know.

            You aint God as some big ogre to be afraid of but I do not know where you got that idea from. The scripture says that perfect love cast out all fears. My father’s love for me is perfect so I fear nothing.

          • ThePantomimePrincessMargaret

            Far-right Christian Fundamentalist.

          • TruthvLIes

            Sorry but I don’t remember addressing my comments to you, but thank you for your wrong opinion.

          • carolyn

            Not that YOU have ever butted in on anyone elses comments. Though that IS what you would expect to happen on a DISCUSSION FORUM. Only YOU projects onto others what YOU are guilty of. Any chance ever that you might do a little self reflection. Let he who is without sin and all that? Tragic. Embarrasing.

          • TruthvLIes

            “Only YOU projects onto others what YOU are guilty of.”

            What does that pidgeon english mean?

            And when can I expect an answer to my question from you? Judging by your record, never.

          • carolyn

            Its a typo. I added an s. Not crime of the century. YOU are the king of avoidance mate. Never answer a single question. When you talk bull however, I give references to counter the bull you speak. More avoidance on your part. Tragic.

          • TruthvLIes

            You give the impression that you never make a mistake.

            And I am still waiting for an answer to my question.

          • carolyn

            I just told you I added an s – a typo. How is this never making a mistake?

            “when can I expect an answer to my question from you? Judging by your record, never.” Not sure how I answer a question from MYSELF. Wouldnt that be a “question TO you”

            I could have sworn you CLAIM to be an english teacher with 4 degrees. EMBARRASING EMBARRASING EMBARRASING. I dont make a tenth of the mistakes YOU do and I dont claim to be an english teacher.

          • carolyn

            Ooops – looks like his abuse got him deleted. That is an awful lot of toxicity removed from the site

          • ThePantomimePrincessMargaret

            Name calling is really an easy thing to avoid, but wow, there are a lot of really angry people out there.

          • carolyn

            Still no references. More distraction. You quote the bible. The second sentence does not make any sense at all. Odd when you claim to have 4 degrees and be an english teacher / retired english teacher depending on who you are trying to impress. Your fathers love for gay people is also perfect.

          • TruthvLIes

            And more gobbledygook from you trying to impress us with your debating skills which you don’t have.

            The second sentence is perfectly clear. Perhaps you don’t understand what you say.

            I can’t say much about my father’s love because he died before I was born.

            And I still waiting from you to tell me what my religion is. Perhaps you don’t know. All you were doing was shooting from the lip.

          • carolyn

            “You aint God as some big ogre to be afraid of but I do not know where you got that idea from.” That is perfectly clear is it Mr I have 4 degrees and am an english teacher / retired english teacher.

            “The scripture says that perfect love cast out all fears. My father’s love for me is perfect so I fear nothing.” vs “I can’t say much about my father’s love because he died before I was born.”

            So you are referring here to your biological father? Really ?
            Are you capable of telling the truth at all?

            Tragic. How is this Christian???

          • TruthvLIes

            Have you permission from your guardians to leave your sandpit?

          • carolyn

            Pathetic. You do realise dont you that people can READ your comments and see for themselves how childish you are?

          • TruthvLIes

            Go away. It is not time for you to leave the kindergarten yet.

          • carolyn

            You do realise dont you that people can READ your comments and see for themselves how childish you are. I would be embarassed.

          • Charles Haas

            Yeah, I think your idea of inter-sex is extremely rare, likely more rare than people that claim to be trans. So, using inter-sex as a basis for reality, when it is really a genetic mutation, is a false narrative. If Intersex wasn’t so rare, we would have solved this issue long ago. Using a mutation to back up transgender issues is not really a sound scientific practice.
            Drug users are INSISTANCE, CONSISTANCE and PERSISITANCE. What is your medical advice for them? Should we be developing masses of people that live in a constant state of being high on drugs? I think not. In fact many states of life are like that. People are INSISTANCE, CONSISTANCE and PERSISITANCE on being obese also. Do you think they should encouraged to remain that way, or to become even more obese? Seems you would. Some people are sex addicts. The want to have sex all the time. I would say they are INSISTANCE, CONSISTANCE and PERSISITANCE. So after they rape a number of people, what is your advice us about them. Seems you would approve that they remain rapist, should we just accommodate their needs too. They should be given a portion of society to rape so they don’t have to remain in the closet don’t you think? So, your methodology isn’t really the most sound when you shine the light of reality on it. Mind you, I am not comparing a transperson with any of the examples listed above, but I am suggesting that your methodology does not make sense when you base it with reality.

          • carolyn

            INTERSEX is not my “idea” It is a physical fact and it is known to be as common as having red hair 1.7% of the population, though in reality many who are intersex will NEVER KNOW that they are indeed intersex. Some find out as teenagers, when eg they do not start periods, or grow a penis (Guavedoces) or later when trying to conceive, or much later in life. In countries where there is no access to medical treatment, people likely just conclude they are barren and never find out the truth. Intersex IS REALITY, and it proves that not even sex is straight forward, never mind sexuality.

            They grow up often as male or female when they are NOT male OR female, so for a FACT, people can have a gender identity that is different from their sex. They PROVE that god, or evolution or whatever does not always get the body parts right. In intersex this may be one or other body part, In trans people, this is the whole set – hardly a big leap. Indeed there are people who were designated male or female and who want to transition and who later find out that they are infact half way to being the other sex anyway as they are intersex.

            I am sorry if you dont like it, but intersex is a FACT. It is science. It is your stance that is not correct. There is not just adam and eve. The bible was plain old wrong.

            Historically Doctors “SOLVED” the problem of intersex by assigning the babies one sex or other- whether or not the were and then setting about operating on them cosmetically to force them to fit in with the fake idea that there is only one or the other – often screwing them up for later in life. Intersex people are now campaigning to stop this genital mutilation. They have also campaigned for recognition on birth certificates. Male female Intersex and they are suing doctors for the operations they were subjected to and winning and starting to have their intersex status recognised on birth certificates, so sadly YOU are being left behind. Their needs are being recognised. I might add that religious people say that trans should not interfere with what god gave them, but doctors regularly interfere with what god gave intersex people. Major hypocricy dont you think? I am sorry if you do not like the evidence I have provided, but it is a fact – and you need to update your knowledge.

            The rest of the stuff you are waffling on about makes absolutely no sense. You diagnose drug use by the fact that the person is taking drugs. You diagnose obesity by being overweight. Nothing like how they diagnose Intersex.

            I might point out too that most people dont want to be obese or a drug user. Trans people want to be intersex. Rape is something that you DO TO SOMEONE ELSE. What on earth has that got to do with how someone wants to identify. Trans too has NOTHING TO DO WITH SEX. It is about identity. You can be trans and celibate. You reveal your ignorance and you are talking nonsense.
            “So after they rape a number of people, what is your advice us about them. Seems you would approve that they remain rapist, should we just accommodate their needs too. They should be given a portion of society to rape so they don’t have to remain in the closet don’t you think”

            Your words are insane and you have the audacity to say that my “Methodology does not make sense when you base it with reality” A sentence which in itself does not make sense.

            If someone is a rapist, they need locking up. Somehow comparing this to being trans is utter nonsense. You clearly have no idea whatsoever what trans is. If you had a child who was trans, you might have to face what other parents have to face. In the meantime, rather than show yourself up with your ridiculous comments, maybe you should just keep quiet.

          • TruthvLIes

            How do you know? If Jesus can save a murderer or a child molester or a wife basher or a homosexual so they they sin no more I am quite sure that he can save a child who is confused about their identity.

          • Silas Jennings

            He doesn’t, and what a ridiculous idea to be “saved” from your natural sexuality.

          • Va_guy

            natural sexuality ,not sex if he/ she /it has a Y chromosome then male. What ever Nova wants to be or live as is fine his rights end where others begin

          • TSawesome

            Not so fast…
            A woman in the UK was tested during her pregnancy and found that she was “XY” with almost 95% Male DNA — and she then successfully gave birth to a little girl.

            Chromosomes only “lick start” secondary sex characteristics, they do *not* determine gender. In addition, there are *many, many* more permutations than merely “XX” and “XY” in the human condition.

          • Kevin Carr

            Are you citing her as the norm?

          • carolyn

            Of course not. It is not the norm. However you cannot say that Everyone is male or female (apart from the ones who are not) It is a fact that there is a continuum even in physical terms. The whole situation is way more complex that YOU would like to believe and just because we do not understand it all yet in terms of the why or wherefore, does not mean that it does not exist. If your child was trans, you would understand. You dont understand as you have not had to face it.

          • Kevin Carr

            Did you search Walt Heyer?

      • Vince

        Love mandates curing delusions, not playing along with them. It might be amusing for a kid to claim he is Superman, but when he decides he wants to live as Superman 24/7 and be addressed as Superman, then the loving thing to do is bring him back to reality.

        You obviously do not have children, which is a good thing. You would make a horrible parent if you give in to a child’s every fantasy.

        There is no such person as “Nova.” He’s a very mentally disturbed teenage boy, and his disgusting parents are not willing to play their assigned role of being the adults in the room. Odds are he will probably attempt suicide at some point, and he and his adult-less family will blame the “bigots,” taking no responsibility for their own idiocy in encouraging a male to think he is female. Even if he doens’t succeed in suicide, he will be hooked for the rest of us his life on psychology therapy and medications too.

        • Silas Jennings

          The problem is you’re not even EXPLORING the possibility that it’s NOT a delusion. There’s a whole field of science surrounding this issue, and you reject it or ignore it completely.

          Let me tell you what I WOULD NOT do if I were a parent. I wouldn’t treat Jesus like a huge aspirin tablet that is going to “cure” things like this. And if YOU think this is the way to handle it, don’t be surprised when your kid rejects religion completely. You’re using the wrong tool for the job. This isn’t a spiritual matter, it’s a psychological one.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Everything is a spiritual issue.

          • ThroatwobblerMangrove

            How about science?

          • ppp777

            Scientism you mean .

          • ThroatwobblerMangrove

            No, I am talking about science.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Especially science.

          • ppp777

            Yes , ” for God gave them over to a reprobate mind “

          • Silas Jennings

            You and I have a VERY different idea of what makes a mind “reprobate”. In Alabama you’re about to knowingly elect a pedophile. What about that? Does he get a free pass because he’s Christian?

          • peanut butter

            And as a psychological problem, it requires counseling, not for the world to have to change to suit him by encouraging him in his mental illness.

          • Silas Jennings

            I didn’t say “psychological problem”, I said “psychological matter”. It sounds like you’re the one with the problem.

          • peanut butter

            But you admit it is psychological; ‘matter’ or ‘problem’, same difference. Apples and apples, six of one half a dozen of the other. A psychological ‘matter’ is resolved with counseling, not appeasement or surgery. You must be confused , too, to be fighting so hard for this poor deranged boy. Yes, I said, “Boy”. I hope you come to Christ and find happiness, true happiness. You can say whatever you want, but if you seek Him you will find Him, then you will know what life is really all about. It is not to consume yourself in your own perspective, but to learn and grow. Any insults you throw at me will be fielded by Him. Outy.

          • Silas Jennings

            You are not a psychologist, and neither am I. I think it is reasonable to allow a psychologist make the decision in these cases whether surgery or counselling is best, don’t you? Religion can do a lot of things, but one thing it can’t do is alter a person’s sexual identity.

          • Leon

            Call yourself a girl, when you are not, and I will call you what you are to your face, and there is nothing you can do about it. Period.

          • TruthvLIes

            “A whole field of science surrounding this issue”

            You are so naive. You can make science say what you want it to say that is why the THEORY of evolution has become fact.

            Oh, by the way, did you know there is whole field of psychology that clearly shows it is all make believe?

          • Silas Jennings

            Did your ultra-right fundamentalist church teach you that? Seriously, did it?

          • carolyn

            On another thread Lies vs Truth (he needs renaming) and myself have had the same discussions. I made him aware of the fact that not everone is born either male or female (INTERSEX) even in physical terms. Lies vs Truth is going to maintian his position whatever you say to him.

          • Silas Jennings

            His name says it all. His faith is “truth”. Everything else is lies.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Don’t talk about science if you don’t know what the word “theory” means in a scientific context. (Hint: We have theories of gravity and relativity, yet no one with any sense disputes that gravity and relativity exist. Actually, gravity is covered by relativity, but that’s kinda beside the point…)

          • carolyn

            References please Lies vs Truth re the branch of psychology showing that it is make believe. Did you do a degree in Psychology as well as your degree in Social Science, your degrees (plural) in Theology, your degree in politics and the teaching qualification you no doubt also have to have been an English teacher?

        • peanut butter

          He got that name, ‘Nova’, from the original ‘Planet of the Apes’, I bet. And he is still living in a fantasy world. Also, as you were speaking of Superman, you would want to intervene to keep them from trying to fly or stop a speeding train.

    • ppp777

      Hell is his future .

  • Tricia Phillipi Conley

    Why oh why do people do this.. This was all about a young man , thinking he is a girl in a boys body and wanting the right to change in the girls locker room.. NO NO. He is a boy not a girl. The young ladies at school have just as much rights as that young man and they should NOT have to worry about a boy seeing them undress, it is Wrong. What in the world is going on. OK the boy was offered a different place to change, but NO that didnt make him happy then he was offered a curtain in the girls locker room, to maybe help all of them feel comfortable but again he said NO, so he is not willing to work this out, its his way or no way.. Shame on him. And shame on all of you that took this discussion and turned it around all about religion. Some of you defended OUR LORD GOD while others turned on him. I for one believe in God and his love, but I also know that you do not use the Bible to fight your battles, you do NOT try to force your opinions or beliefs on everyone else.. Wouldnt you rather believe in something and find out its real then NOT believe and find out its real.. Too late then.. Anyway I just gave my opinion didnt I LOL.. God Bless everyone and have a great day/evening..

    • robert ellis

      You do use the bible to fight your battles , Gods Ways are throughout the Bible and All are His Words — so as Christians we must use the bible to fight by speaking His Truth —- yes we do not fight against flesh and blood but against spiritual wicked ness—-

  • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

    That poor lost soul!

  • Fallout from the rights culture created by the 18th-century founding fathers when they replaced Biblical qualifications for Enlightenment rights:

    “[B]ecause they have transgressed my covenant, and trespassed against my law … they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind…”. (Hosea 8:1, 7)

    “A familiar proverb declares, “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.” America’s road to “hell” has been paved with rights, including:

    Natural rights
    Human rights
    Civil rights
    Political rights
    Religious rights (including the right for all non-Christian religions to proliferate)
    Educational rights
    Women’s rights (including the right to murder one’s unborn baby)
    Children’s rights
    Health care rights
    Welfare rights
    Homosexual rights
    Transgender rights

    “And this is the short list… Because the framers failed to expressly establish the Constitution on Biblical ethics, the Ninth Amendment was inevitably interpreted to include the above list, as well as other Biblical infractions.

    “The latest to come from the rights culture created by the framers is the right of young men who claim to be transgender to share locker rooms, bathrooms, and even showers with girls in our public schools….”

    For more, see blog article “America’s Road to Hell: Paved With Rights.” Click on my name, then our website. Go to our Blog and search on title.

    Then find out how much you really know about the Constitution as compared to the Bible. Take our 10-question Constitution Survey in the sidebar and receive a complimentary copy of a book that examines the Constitution by the Bible.

  • Drake

    Identity is what you are born with, not what you imagine. Truth is discovered, not invented.

  • Edward Jensen

    The media has taught us bathroom bills are discriminatory. When people see them as lockerroom issues then it is invasion of privacy.

  • Vince

    The article leaves out one very significant bit of information: “Nova” will make a tidy profit from his lawsuit. The petition filed with the circuit court demands these things:

    C. Actual damages, including damages for emotional distress, for the injury and loss suffered by Nova.
    D. Interest on Nova’s actual damages.
    E. An order mandating that District 211 pay Nova’s and her mother’s reasonable attorney’s fees and costs.

    In case you didn’t get the message: This isn’t just coercing people to call you by a different pronoun. This is a quick way to make some $$$$$$, and you won’t even have to pay your lawyer, the party you’re suing will foot the bill.

  • Chet

    Dude, think of yourself a s a millionaire and see how that pans out for you. Military service is precisely what you need, fella…

  • peanut butter

    Gender dysphoria is a mental illness. You can’t change the world for one student that has this illness.

    • ppp777

      There is no such illness , he has been given over to a reprobate mind .

  • TruthvLIes

    I have an answer to the problem. Let her use the girls locker room with all the other boys and the girls can use the male locker room. All the boys have to do is say they identify as a girl when they are changing for sport or P.E.

  • Herb Planter

    what a joke

    • ppp777

      I wish that was true .

  • Sven

    Ask him if he dresses to the left. A real girl would answer “I don’t know what that means.”

    • TSawesome

      Buttons?

  • babyangel (itsmy bday! 12/12)

    that guy is an adult now at 18… his parents were A FAILURE raising him for that man to have some serious psychological problems.. or maybe he’s a loner whos eager for attention?

  • Recognizing_Truth

    When someone is underweight but sees themselves as overweight and attempts to take action to fit their beliefs (bulimia, anorexia) we get them help so they can stop believing the lie and engaging in self-destructive behavior.

    When someone with perfectly good eyes (or hands or legs, or other body parts) believes that body part is alien to them and needs to be removed or disabled and attempts to take action that fits their belief we get them help so they can stop believing the lie and engaging in self-destructive behavior.

    When someone abandons their own identity and believes themselves to be another person (I am Napoleon!) and takes action to fit their beliefs we get them help so they can stop believing the lie and engaging in self-destructive behavior.

    When someone believes their gender is other than the one they are biologically and takes action to fit their beliefs, we SHOULD get them help so they can stop believing the lie and engaging in self-destructive behavior. But INSTEAD, we enable them and encourage them in their delusion, even forcing others to do the same and punishing those who dare to disagree.

    One of these things is not treated like the other – but it should be recognized as being exactly like the others, and treated, not encouraged.

    Look at how foolish it is to enable and encourage these delusions:

    – Imagine enabling an anorexic or bulimic person and encouraging them to stop eating or to binge-purge until they’re happy with their body shape
    – Imagine enabling a person who wants to blind themselves, or cut off a limb, or hobble themselves and encouraging them to carry out the damage or removal of these functioning body parts they believe are alien to them
    – Imagine enabling a person who thinks they’re Napoleon reincarnated, or they’re the real Batman or Superman or John Wayne Gacy, and encouraging them to act out and live out their obvious fantasy.

    It’s so obviously foolish to enable a delusion and encourage someone to act on it.

    There is gender. it is biological. There is no transgender. It is a delusion. These people need help to overcome their obvious dissatisfaction with themselves. They do not need enablement.