Homosexual Advocates Protest Church for Offering Help to Youth Struggling With Homosexuality

RIVERVIEW, Mich. — A large group of homosexual advocates protested outside of a Michigan church on Thursday night to object to a Bible-based workshop it is offering to help youth who are struggling with feelings of homosexuality and transgenderism.

“I think it is very sad that people are willing to yell and scream and be profane at people, but never actually talk to us to find out what we’re doing,” Jeremy Schossau, pastor of Metro City Church, told the News Herald this week.

According to reports, some became angry after seeing a social media post regarding the church’s “Unashamed Identity Workshop,”—a six-week offering for girls ages 12-16 who are struggling with thoughts that they might be homosexual or transgender.

“Does your child or grandchild struggle with sexual identity? Do you see the pain and hurt of their struggle but you’re uncertain how to help?” a webpage for the workshop, which is now only available via cache, read.

“It doesn’t have to be this way. With God’s help there can be healing, wholeness and hope. Through thoughtful, relevant and biblical counsel we will help your girl be unashamed of her true sexual identity given to her by God at birth,” it stated.

Some of those upset with the program accused Schossau of conducting “conversion therapy”—a characterization that he denies—and sent him threatening messages.

“The vast majority are filled with vulgarity, hate and threats of all kinds,” Schossau told reporters. “Threats to kill me, my family and to burn our home and church down. What we find incredibly odd is there is no seeking to understand what we are truly doing. There is only the assumption that we are practicing some sort of conversion therapy, as it’s traditionally known.”

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He outlined in a tear-filled message on Sunday that the church does indeed believe that God made woman for the man, and that the workshop would simply and lovingly direct girls to Scripture.

“We’ve seen this movement in the culture, particularly younger people, where they are just struggling, and our culture is cheering that struggle on. For me, I believe it’s in the wrong direction,” Schossau told his congregation. “Lovingly and unashamedly, we believe that God is the creator of men and women, and that God created men to be men, and women to be women. And to find their completeness in one another; to find their help mate in one another.”

“Not man with man, or woman with woman, but with the opposite [sex]. That is God’s design. It’s always been that way,” he stated humbly. “And for those of us who want to follow the God of the Bible, that is what we believe. It will always be that way. It is not a hate-filled thing. … This church believes in loving sinners, and I’m the first among a bunch of you sinners. We’re in this together.”

Schossau said that brokenness propels all men to run toward sin, thus separating them from God. He noted that to love someone is to speak truth to them.

“I love my children when I tell them, ‘Do not play in the road or you will get run over,'” he outlined. “They may think I’m a mean old jerkface, but I love them by telling them the truth.”

However, the Metro-Detroit Political Action Network organized a protest outside of the church during when the first workshop was to be conducted, resulting in a reported 200+ people showing up outside of the house of God Thursday night to express objection. Some held signs such as “Self-hatred is not therapy,” “You can’t fix them; they’re not broken,” and “Love is love.”

“Conversion therapy is what it is, and Metro City Church is trying to repackage it as conversation therapy,” co-organizer Brianna Dee Kingsley stated, according to Pride Source. “But the basic premise is you are broken and you need to be fixed and that something is wrong, and we stand against that. We are here to show support for the LGBTQIA community.”

Some opposed to the church’s outreach gave speeches to those protesting outside, including through a megaphone.

Despite the threats and protests, Schossau said that as long as people come to him for help, he is willing to offer it.

“These are folks who are seeking us out,” Schossau outlined to reporters. “These are folks who are questioning their sexual identity or are maybe in the gay or lesbian community and they are just not comfortable there. They think that maybe they don’t want to be there, and they are seeking out conversation and potentially help and guidance.”

“Virtually all of the thousands of emails assume that we are forcing and judging and hating people. Simply not true,” he said. “The hypocrisy of some in the LGBTQ community is so incredible because they are not seeking to understand and making totally wrong assumptions.”

As previously reported, Christians believe, that homosexuality—like any inclination that is contrary to the law of God—is a part of the Adamic sin nature that must be regenerated by the second birth, as Jesus outlined in John 3:5-7, “Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.”

2 Corinthians 5:14-17 also reads, “For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead. And that He died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto Him which died for them, and rose again. … Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”


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  • Wibur Smith

    There is a guy at work who is always mentioning the name of his male live-in to try to normalize the idea among his co-workers. I try to have friendly conversation but when he brings “him” up, I go back to work. I think he has picked up on the fact that I don’t approve. My company promotes “Diversity & Inclusion” so much that I’m afraid to bring up the subject of how homosexuality is a sin. I keep hoping he will ask me what I think and when he does I will speak the truth from the Bible.

    • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

      Pray for him and his partner.

      • Rusty Writer

        Yes, pray to God they are protected from his cruel followers.

        • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

          I pray God will protect Christians from you .I pray God will deliver you from your hate as well.

          • Rusty Writer

            the only thing I hate is a lie. God does too, so repent, faux Christian.

    • HpO

      Heads up: anti-sexual harassment law is in place in every state now and all employers must comply.

      You & I must too.

      • Amos Moses – He>i

        5:26 Then went the captain with the officers, and brought them without violence: for they feared the people, lest they should have been stoned.
        5:27 And when they had brought them, they set them before the council: and the high priest asked them,
        5:28 Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man’s blood upon us.

        5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

        5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
        5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

        • Rusty Writer

          Jesus said to kill kids who disrespect their parents Matt 15:4. The bible said to execute adulterers, non-virgin brides, anyone who changes his religion, anyone who eats pork or shellfish and anyone who wears two different fabrics at the same time. When you do all that, I will believe you follow the bible.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            NOPE …. God allowed men to make their own laws …. and terrifically bad laws …..and then they had to stick to those laws ….. and that was to show men that those laws held no salvation ……… and salvation was only in Christ Jesus …………. but nice try at twisting scripture ….. as the unregenerate do because they do not know what they are talking about ……..

          • Rusty Writer

            LOL, you don’t know the bible, you make up stuff. ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death’ – Jesus in the Gospel of Matthew, 15:4 and he is citing multiple Old Testament commands of God.

          • Rusty Writer

            “Amos Moses” is using a classic racist choice by KKK elders, that of Amos the fictional radio character of the Amos and Andy show, which drew white audiences by playing into racist stereotypes. Most racists are also gaycists.

        • HpO

          No law prohibits us from and penalizes us for sharing with people the ransoming Fatherly love of God through the crucifixion, burial & resurrection of His own beloved Son, THE Christ Jesus of the gospels, epistles & revelation. If the law does, I’ll die for Christ out of disobedience to such law. How about you?

          The law, however, prohibits & penalizes our harassment of LGTBQs. And if you do harass them, I’ll report you too. Because it’s a crime.

          Catch my drift and the big diff, bruh?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Gods law is that “the appearance of evil is evil” …. and we are to avoid it …. mans law not withstanding ……..

            John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

            1Th 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

    • 0pus

      My parents rented one of their condos to a gay couple. When the couple broke up and moved out, my parents had to go in with lots of spackle to fill in all the indentations in the walls, indentations that looked suspiciously like head-holes and fist-holes. It’s been documented that domestic abuse among these people is double that among normal couples, so their lovey-dovey act in public is just a put-on.

      • Rusty Writer

        Opus, your Mother shared the same story, but in her generation it was black people who did all the naughty things. Bigots never change tactics, they just pick new targets for their cruel idiocy.

      • Sadly, they regularly abuse their own bodies and the bodies of those they claim they “love”, so it doesn’t surprise me that they are extremely aggressive toward each other as that’s just a continuation of the abuse they heap upon each other. In reality (and unfortunately), they know nothing of Love…God is Love. What they engage in is demonic and not of God.

        My prayer is that they get right with God, while they can because God’s word says:

        Leviticus 18:22 – Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.

        1 Corinthians 6:9-10 – Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
        10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

        Romans 1:26-28 – For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
        27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
        28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

        1 Timothy 1:10 – For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

        Mark 10:6 – But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

        Jude 1:7 – Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

        1 Corinthians 7:2 – Nevertheless, [to avoid] fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

        Romans 1:27 – And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

    • Lexical Cannibal

      There is a guy at work who is always mentioning the name of his male live-in to try to normalize the idea among his co-workers.

      I don’t know this person or your work situation, but has it occurred to you that rather than actively trying to “normalize” his relationship, he might just be talking about his partner like anyone else would? Dude doesn’t need an agenda to gripe/gush about his boyfriend.

      • cadcoke5

        There is also the possibility that he is feeling the result of the Law of God that was embedded in his heart. He may be seeking an answer, and a way out of this bondage to sin.

        • LynnRH

          Exactly right. And I truly pray that is what it was all about.

        • Lexical Cannibal

          By…chatting about his boyfriend? Don’t recall many biblical laws around smalltalk.

          • cadcoke5

            I don’t know of any biblical laws about smalltalk concerning one’s rape victim. (And Jesus never even mentioned rape.) Yet, it is clear from scripture that rape is immoral. This is comparable to small talk about one’s homosexual relationship. It is clearly advocating that sin.

    • Enniscorthy

      I doubt very much he mentions the name of his partner to try to “normalize” anything since for them it’s already normal. This is what people do with their partners in real life, there’s no reason to treat it like a taboo subject.

    • cadcoke5

      You could take a different approach. I think different people need different approaches. So, it takes discernment and leading by the Holy Spirit. And sometimes you “shake the dust from your sandals”

      One idea is to bring up the subject of the Bible being a faithful source for God’s word.

      An approach I might take would be to mention, the genetic news that reported that there was a mitochondrial Eve and a Y-chromosome Adam where the genetic information had a bottle-neck? I recently heard that they did the study using actual measured genetic mutation rate for people, but it gave them an answer they didn’t want. So, the researchers simply rejected that answer, and decided that they should use the difference between chimpanzees and humans to determine the mutation rate. The dates they rejected give a date for the bottle-neck of mitochondrial “Eve” that matches dates for the Biblical Eve. And the date for Y-Chromosome bottle-neck matches the biblical bottle neck of Noah.

      • LynnRH

        Wow that is interesting. I’d love to see that research article? Can you share?

    • Suaria

      You do realize your coworker is just talking about his partner just like any other straight person would their spouse/significant other? People talk about who they are in a relationship with.

  • HpO

    “Very sad”, is he now? – “that people … yell[ing] and scream[ing] and be[ing] profane … never actually talk to us to find out what we’re doing”?

    Well, then, if, as Metro City Church’s brother Jeremy Schossau strongly denies “that we are practicing some sort of [illegal and harmful] conversion therapy”, why is it that the “information about the course on church’s website has been taken down”?! (Cf. Allie Gross, “Church accused of planning a conversion therapy workshop for LGBTQ girls”, Detroit Free Press, February 7, 2018.)

  • 0pus

    This whole movement is irrational. If you’re not happy being a man, they claim you can change into a woman and find happiness. But if you’re not happy being gay, they tell you, tough luck, you can never change, just accept it and shut up. They’re crazy. You kinda get the impression they don’t want the world to know that some homosexuals are unhappy with themselves. Is there something they’re trying to hide?

    • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

      They are trying to hide the truth. But in doing so it is causing more harm to those who are not happy. That is the saddest part on their denial.

      • Rusty Writer

        The truth is people don’t choose their sexual orientation. And it cannot be changed at will, or via prayer, therapy, etc.

        • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

          Oh another one…………….

    • Rusty Writer

      Try reading evangelical Kathy Baldock’s “Walking the Bridgeless Canyon” book about the church and LGBT issues, told in a way the average person can appreciate.

      • SFBruce

        I haven’t read Baldock’s book, but I found Stranger at the Gate by Mel White very compelling.

  • Reason2012

    The only reason they’re “struggling” with such thoughts is indoctrination, confusion, mental instability and/or abuse. Many rise above it. If the person wants help they should be allowed to get it and this is where the LGBT activists show themselves to be fascists, denying those who want help any chance of getting it.. If people do not want help, just like any other lusts, nothing will yet help them – but if they do, then they should be allowed to get it.

    • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

      The reason they denying those who want help is that they don;t want them to be helped. But the one who want the help should receive it.

      • Rusty Writer

        There is no “help” that will change a person’s sexual orientation. The medical associations have explained that for decades. And the ex-gay ministries died due to total failure.

        • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

          In your eyes perhaps. But through Christ there is for deliverance.

          • Rusty Writer

            Sexual orientation is not a demon. Therefore, it is not susceptible for deliverance. Jesus went his whole storied life in the gospels without ever speaking a word against homosexuals. Google “jesus affirmed gay couple MCC hope” and you will read the Gospel account of Jesus and the centurion. Jesus did not deliver anyone in the 40 years of ex-gay ministries (1973-2013) either, as the leaders admitted in 2013.

      • Amen!

    • Rusty Writer

      No Christians experienced a change of sexual orientation during the 40 years of ministries to LGBT people called “ex-gay ministries.” Every major, decades-old ex-gay ministry around the world closed in 2013. And every medical association has long explained: sexual orientation is not a choice. Any church claiming sexual orientation is a choice these days is lying. There are over 6 million Christians alive today who are LGBT. None will become heterosexual.

      • Enniscorthy

        And none need to feel that they have to be completely at odds with Christianity, as many here will claim. There are many LGBT-positive congregations.

        • Rusty Writer

          Good point. They exist around the world. Here are the LGBT affirming churches just in North America:
          MCCNY, a church in New York City.
          Grace Gospel Chapel, in Seattle.
          Affirming Pentecostal Church International
          Alliance of Baptists
          American Baptist Churches USA: The denomination allows each congregation to decide
          Anglican Church of Canada
          The Anthem Network
          Ascension Fellowship
          Association of Welcoming and Affirming Baptists
          AXIOS – Eastern and Orthodox Gay and Lesbian Christians
          Catholic Apostolic Church in North America
          Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
          Communion of Synodal Catholic Churches
          Community of Christ
          Cooperative Baptist Fellowship: Each congregation determines its own position
          Ecclesia Gnostica
          Ecumenical Catholic Church
          Ecumenical Catholic Communion
          Episcopal Church (United States)
          Eucharistic Catholic Church
          Evangelical Anglican Church In America
          Evangelical Catholic Church
          Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
          Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada
          The Evangelical Network
          Friends General Conference
          Friends of Jesus Fellowship in America
          Global Alliance of Affirming Apostolic Pentecostals
          Inclusive Orthodox Church
          Independent Catholic Christian Church
          Independent Greek Orthodox Church of the United States
          International Council of Community Churches[14]
          Mennonite Church Canada: Each congregation determines its own position
          Mennonite Church USA: Each conference determines its own position
          Metropolitan Community Church
          Moravian Church in America Northern Province
          National Association of Congregational Christian Churches: Each congregation is free to determine its own policy
          Old Catholic Church
          Old Catholic Church-Charismatic Rite[21]
          Presbyterian Church (USA) [22]
          Reconciling Pentecostals International
          Reformed Anglican Catholic Church
          Reformed Church in America[23] NOTE: Gay pastors may serve congregations if they were ordained in another denomination; some member churches allow gay marriage.
          Restoration Church of Jesus Christ (Salt Lake City, Utah, USA) — a Latter Day Saint denomination
          Swedenborgian Church of North America
          The Progressive Episcopal Church
          Unitarian Universalist Association[24] NOTE: Although no longer exclusively Christian, the denomination originated as such and is ‘mainline’
          United Catholic Church
          United Church of Christ
          United Church of Canada
          United Methodist Church’s Baltimore-Washington, California-Nevada, California-Pacific, Desert Southwest, Detroit, Greater New Jersey, Illinois Great Rivers, Iowa, Minnesota, New England, New York, Northern Illinois, Oregon-Idaho, Pacific-Northwest, Rocky Mountain, Southwest Texas, Upper New York, Virginia, West Michigan, and Wisconsin Annual Conferences are affirming of LGBT clergy and relationships through resolutions The South Carolina Annual Conference passed a resolution supporting transgender rights The UMC also provides spousal benefits for non-ordained employees in same-sex marriages.[31] The Western Jurisdiction elected the denomination’s first openly and partnered lesbian bishop in 2016.[32] The North Central Jurisdiction considered an openly gay nominee for bishop although not elected.[33] Additionally, the Northeastern Jurisdiction passed a resolution supporting the option of allowing same-sex marriages.[34]
          Unity Fellowship Church Movement
          Unity Church
          (found on Wikipedia)

          • Enniscorthy

            Stand by for all the “apostate church” comments which are bound to arrive soon.

          • Rusty Writer

            The bible has been used to oppose every civil rights advance since slavery, and to back Jim Crow laws, segregation, the KKK and bans on interracial marriage. There are 35,000 sects of Christianity and all claim to be the one true church or part of it, but they all see most other churches as apostates to some extent.

  • Michael C

    If this Michigan church is luring kids with the promise of being “cured” of their sexual orientation or gender identity through prayer or any type of religious or secular counselling, they are deceiving these children and their parents.

    While there are people who claim to have changed their sexual orientation, they provide zero evidence to back up their claims. There exists zero evidence that sexual orientation can be changed through religious or secular means. The pillars of the (largely religious) ex-gay movement have recanted their claims of change. This is snake oil.

    • Reason2012

      If people want help, why is it people like you hate then getting help? And adults continue to turn away from homosexuality, giving a testimony of getting into it in the first place due to indoctrination, confusion, mental instability and/or abuse. Simple search on ex-gay and read all about their own testimonies out of their own mouths of countless people who have overcome it. Although I do agree that if a person does not want help, on that or anything, then counseling will likely not be of much help as they’ll just tune it out.

      In any event: It’s why LGBT activists love going after everyone else’s kids and grandkids, filling their minds with images and ideas of homosexuality and transgenderism – it proves they know indoctrination of kids is one of the ways to recruit. But when others offer a message instead of hope, the LGBT activists show their true colors and their hate for those who want help – they don’t want them to get the help they’re seeking.

      And these same LGBT activists defended islam when 50 LGBT were slaughtered in Orlando by someone following what islam commands, but they rage against Christianity for daring to help these LGBT who want help. It shows they’re really pro-islam activists pretending to be LGBT activists in their crusade against Christianity.

      • Enniscorthy

        You badly need to read what Rusty Writer wrote above.

      • Suaria

        The reason why people are against kids receiving conversion therapy is not at all what you claimed. Look at Leelah Alcorn. She was forced into conversion therapy by her family because they didn’t like who she was. That caused her to commit suicide. The whole point of Leelah Alcorn is to show that families force their kids into conversion therapy. I’m against kids getting it for that reason. However as adults they can choose to do what they want even if I don’t think conversion therapy will do anything.

        Also I have not seen any LGBT individual who has defended the Orlando shooter. Most have seen it as a tragic event.

        • Reason2012

          As I already said: If people do not want help for any personal problems, then it will not help them and should not go on.

          If a person does want help, then they should not be denied help. And these activists demand that those who personally want help should not be allowed to get the help they personally seek, which shows how evil their agenda is.

          • Suaria

            How would you prevent unaccepting parents who force their child into conversion therapy? Ya some may want help but you also have to realize parents will force their kids into it if there is no law against it.

    • bowie1

      It’s still a free country so if someone wants to offer help and those wanting help should be allowed to do without intimidation and threats from other homosexuals and activists.

      • Quince

        It’s still a free country, and people can protest activity that brings harm to others.

        Conversion therapy has been debunked.

        Former proponents of conversion therapy, including Exodus International, have renounced it.
        It is documented that Conversion therapy can contribute to suicide.

        Conversion therapy does not work and causes extreme harm.

        If a group told left handed people and red heads that they were broken and offered to cure them, and if it were shown that those people caused the suicide rate among red heads and lefties to increase, people who care would protest them also.

        • bowie1

          He says this was not conversion therapy but just a conversation about sexuality with those attending. Critics are just going to have to accept that others do have the right to seek help if that is what they want and are just being bullheaded about it trying to stop others from making their own choices.

          • Rusty Writer

            He seeks to change a person’s sexual orientation. That is conversion therapy. You see, conversion therapy is not an actual process. It has nothing to do with medical therapy. It is merely any attempt to change a person’s sexual orientation. And the problem is that conversion therapy has been proven in court to be consumer fraud (JONAH case). The supreme court affirmed the ruling, seeing no need to take on the case. What happens when teens are told they chose their sexual orientation, a lie, is they feel guilt, anxiety, depression and sometimes despair. They never change their sexual orientation. Every medical association said it’s not a choice. Every major ex-gay ministry closed after admitting no Christian experienced a change of sexual orientation. This church is lying and damaging teens, and the fact this man wants to be with 12 to 16 year old girls is disturbing given how many times conversion therapists have been caught molesting those they claimed to be curing.

          • Quince

            His goals and beliefs are identical to the goals and beliefs of conversion therapy.

            Word games do not change reality.

      • Michael C

        It’s still a free country so if someone wants to offer help and those wanting help should be allowed to do without intimidation and threats from other homosexuals and activists.

        This is a free country. This church is free to deceive children and parents.

        Don’t you believe that others are free to voice their opinions and protest?

        If anyone has broken a law, however, they should be prosecuted.

        • bowie1

          In this case no law was broken.

    • Kevin Canuckster

      Actually more recent studies are showing your statements to be false. The studies are showing homosexuality to much more fluid than originally thought, especially in young teenagers. The ‘born gay’ theory has been proven unscientific and studies are showing that many young people move away from their same-sex attraction in their mid teens.
      Given that today’s schools are openly encouraging young people to question their gender, don’t you at least think it fair for those who are uncertain of their homosexual lifestyle to be helped to think deeper.

      • Enniscorthy

        “Born gay” isn’t really relevant, it shouldn’t matter if a person’s born gay or if their sexuality develops in early life. The point is that it cannot be changed once it is formed. And that point IS scientific.

        • glen ben

          go tell that to the folks at AA,PAA, GA, NA or any X Anonymous meeting tring to break bad habits
          “As a man thinketh in his heart so is he,” Prov 23:7

          • Rusty Writer

            glen, sexual orientation is not an addiction. Ask any addiction expert. PS your way was tried. A group calling itself Homosexuals Anonymous still exists, but it is shrinking ever since their leader was caught giving naked sensual massages to men (even after being outed for it).

          • glen ben

            no it is a way of thinking
            “As a man thinketh in his heart so is he,” Prov 23:7

          • Rusty Writer

            So if a man thinks he is white and blue eyed, so he is. LOL, you keep misusing the same scripture even though it clearly has no bearing on this issue. God is the one who gives the gift of sexual orientation in the womb. And no man can change it for himself or others. Don’t believe me? Try changing your own sexual orientation. You won’t be able to do it no matter how many prayers you pray.

          • glen ben

            God is the one who gives the gift of sexual orientation in the womb.

            you are so bizzare

          • Enniscorthy

            If you don’t listen, why would they?

        • LynnRH

          Most sins are addicting and hard to break free from. But the Father God and Holy Spirit can get you though ANYTHING. Philippians 4:13 “I can do all things through Christ Who strengthens me.”

          • Enniscorthy

            It isn’t a sin. It’s a normal variation in human sexuality which occurs throughout the animal kingdom.

          • LynnRH

            It is a sexual sin just like fornication and adultery.

          • Enniscorthy

            I disagree, science disagrees, and I cannot be part of a belief system that believes something so barbaric.

          • LynnRH

            sexual sin is like all other sins……barbaric. If you don’t want to believe in a system that believes God is real and His Word is Truth that’s your right according to the free will God gave you. Totally your choice. I don’t care if you disagree and science disagrees. Science is on-going and is NEVER perfect. Always subject to flaws by the humans that do them and anything else that can sway the results. God is perfect and His Word is Truth.

          • Enniscorthy

            I know many church’s that do not teach that homosexual attraction, which is the only kind of atttaction they can feel after all, is a sin, especially if it is a loving and monogamous relationship. My opinion is you have followed an erroneous interpretation.

          • LynnRH

            yes, unfortunately there are many false teachers out there. God said there would be. But we have to keep our eyes on Jesus and listen to the Holy Ghost in order to not buy into those lies. If we read His Holy Word and pray for His guidance we will know the Truth. God says in the Bible homosexuality (as well as any sexual sin) is a sin. Doesn’t mean it can’t be forgiven. But people HAVE to turn away from it and let God be their God instead of continuing to be their own God. God’s Word is and will never be an erroneous interpretation.

          • Enniscorthy

            Yes, and how do you know you’re not following a false teacher? My first clue would be anyone being so cruel as to demand That someone who is homosexual live a loveless life, as well as being so ignorant of science.

      • Rusty Writer

        Kevin, what sources do you have for those 1940ish claims? Are you aware every major, decades-old ex-gay ministry from the US to Australia closed in 2013 due to leaders admitting no Christian experienced a change of orientation via being born again, praying, bible reading, Christian counseling or therapy? Are you aware that gay conversion therapy and reparative therapy were proven in court to be consumer fraud? Science has advanced greatly on showing the biological basis for sexual orientation… National Geographic created a great video “Biology of Homosexuality” and put it up on YouTube. Worth watching.

      • Michael C

        Actually more recent studies are showing your statements to be false. The studies are showing homosexuality to much more fluid than originally thought, especially in young teenagers.

        I love learning. Please tell me where I can read the findings of these studies.

        …but I never said that nobody ever experiences a certain degree of fluidity in their sexual orientation throughout the course of their lives. You’re either making assumptions or putting words in my mouth. I said that there’s no evidence to support the notion that sexual orientation can be willfully changed through any religious or secular means. Can you cite any studies to refute my actual claims?

        The ‘born gay’ theory has been proven unscientific and studies are showing that many young people move away from their same-sex attraction in their mid teens.

        Firstly, I never claimed that gay people are born gay. Maybe they are. It has not been proven either way but there is good evidence to suggest a biological component. It’s ignorant to try to claim that people aren’t born gay. No research that I know of has concluded that people aren’t born gay. If you’re talking about the Mayer/McHugh paper, they didn’t actually conduct any new research and their non-peer-reviewed paper doesn’t actually show what you seem to think it says. It doesn’t prove that people aren’t born gay, it simply says that there’s not enough evidence to make a definitive claim.

        Given that today’s schools are openly encouraging young people to question their gender, don’t you at least think it fair for those who are uncertain of their homosexual lifestyle to be helped to think deeper.

        Are you talking about gender identity or sexual orientation? These are two different subjects.

        I support thinking deeply about things but telling kids and their parents that they can pray or receive religious counselling to exorcise their sexual orientation or gender identity is deception. It’s snake oil. It’s not real.

        • glen ben

          “but telling kids and their parents that they can pray or receive religious counselling to exorcise their sexual orientation or gender identity is deception. It’s snake oil. It’s not real”

          obviously you don’t believe in a supreme being because you cannot see him and everything here on earth is by happen chance. You know the people who lived during the bubonic plague did not believe a unseen parasite caused the sickness

          • Michael C

            I never said that God isn’t real.

          • glen ben

            “It’s snake oil. It’s not real”

          • Michael C

            Claiming that prayer or religious counselling can “cure” homosexuality is snake oil. That doesn’t mean that God isn’t real.

          • glen ben

            well if you ask your father for food but he gives you a rock isn’t saying too much about how mmuch your father loves you. But if you ask(prayer) your God to help you with a problem he can fix why would that be not possible if he is real?

          • Michael C

            well if you ask your father for food but he gives you a rock isn’t saying too much about how mmuch your father loves you.

            um. okay.

            But if you ask(prayer) your God to help you with a problem he can fix why would that be not possible if he is real?

            If God is real, I don’t know why he doesn’t make gay people straight.

          • Rusty Writer

            glen fails to realize tens of thousands of Christians gathered in prayer in ex-gay ministries for 40 years, but the leaders admitted no Christian had experienced a change of sexual orientation. If there’s a God, it’s clear Glen Ben is wrong about orientation being a problem. Homophobia is the problem. and many who have prayed to not be prejudiced have been able to free their minds.

          • glen ben

            I don’t know what your thinking
            first you say “I never said that God isn’t real.” impling you believe in God

            now you you are questioning if there is a God
            “If God is real”

            If you truly want to know then just ask him to make himself real to you and see what happens.
            “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. matt 7:7

          • Rusty Writer

            God alone gives the gift of sexual orientation, most often in the womb. And Matthew 7:1 has a message for you, glen ben: judge not lest ye be judged

          • LynnRH

            They have to truly want to be straight.

          • Michael C

            They have to truly want to be straight.

            So if a Christian prays for “deliverance” from homosexuality and God doesn’t answer their prayer, it’s actually their fault.

            Got it. Thanks for teaching me about Christianity.

          • LynnRH

            God always answers prayers silly. But the person has to truly be ready to let that sin go. Many sins are addicting and can be very difficult to break. That person has both God and Satan fighting for his soul. That person has to keep his eyes on Jesus and his mind out of the gutter. That person will be able to turn his/her soul over to Jesus. Nope……Jesus won’t put a “spell” on you. He gave you a free will. You can use your free will to dedicate yourself to Satan. Or you can dedicate yourself to the Heavenly Father.

            So since you haven’t been able to turn any true Christians on this Christian website into lovers of sin against God why in the world are you still here? Can’t you find anything else to do with your time? Surely there are websites you can join that would be more to your liking and likeness.

          • Tim Matter

            “God always answers prayers silly.”
            Google Nabeel Qureshi. Many, many people prayed that he be healed of his cancer. He wasn’t healed……unless you consider “died from the cancer” to be the same thing as “healed of the cancer”.

          • LynnRH

            If he was saved then YES he was cured! He lives in Heaven with Almighty God and couldn’t be happier! Praise the Lord! Thank you Jesus!

          • Tim Matter

            To the world, those people that you are trying to convince you have the (capital T) Truth, it looks exactly the same as if all those prayers weren’t answered at all.
            Even the Bible, in 1 Kings 18, Elijah takes the fact that Baal didn’t answer the prayers of his prophets as proof he wasn’t real, and had them killed.

          • Michael C

            …why in the world are you still here? Can’t you find anything else to do with your time? Surely there are websites you can join that would be more to your liking and likeness.

            It’s gay people’s fault that God ignores their prayers and I should just go away.

            Is there anything else you’d like to say in the name of Christianity?

          • LynnRH

            Yes it is gay people’s fault if they don’t truly repent and ask the Lord to be their Savior. They will fail everytime if they won’t keep their eye’s on Jesus and out of the gutter.

            So you haven’t offered any reason yet as to why you want to even be here on this website. You keep skirting around it. So it must truly be because you are like several others here that just want to see if you can keep a stink going and see how many Christians you can turn to anti-Christians. Well good luck on that one. LOL

          • Michael C

            So you haven’t offered any reason yet as to why you want to even be here on this website. You keep skirting around it.

            I am here to defend myself from false statements. If somebody is saying something about me that is untrue, I will correct them.

          • LynnRH

            What did you come here in the first place for anyway? No one even knew there was a Michael C before you started posting. Maybe you shouldn’t have started trying to start a stink in the first place and then you wouldn’t need to try to defend yourself. I bet if you joined a unbelievers website blog you wouldn’t have to defend your beliefs at all. We true Christians know what you and several others on this website are here for.

          • Michael C

            There’s no need to get worked up. I’m here because this site graciously invites me to be here. If you don’t want to read my comments, don’t read them. …or you can block me and you won’t have to see my comments at all.

            What did you come here in the first place for anyway? No one even knew there was a Michael C before you started posting.

            It appears you’ve misunderstood my reply. If somebody is making false statements about homosexuality or gay people in general, they are saying false things about me, personally. I defend myself against these false statements. I do not attack Christianity or Christians for their beliefs. I come here to correct false information.

            If you’d like to debate the content of my comments, I’ll gladly engage you but if you just want to continue to question my right to be here, I see no purpose in continuing to entertain you. Have a nice day.

          • Tim Matter

            Do you suppose Nabeel Qureshi was a real Christian, and he truly wanted to be cured of cancer and prayed for that to happen. I know lots of people did pray for him and claimed they were assured by God that he would heal him. He didn’t.
            If God declined to answer prayers to save the life of a person actively working for him……I think that says a lot about people claiming he will cure gayness.

          • LynnRH

            Humans are just that……..humans. We are told to pray for people. We are to pray for healing and for people’s salvation as well as our own. But as you know……..people do not live eternally on this earth THANKS TO SIN. God is the answer to prayers BUT all things will be done according to HIS will and in HIS time. So yes some people are cured from sickness, injury, etc. and some people go to Heaven or Hell. Sexual sin is a choice and God is willing to give you the strength to overcome if you are truly ready to let it go. Only God knows your deep-down heart.

          • Tim Matter

            I don’t see any loopholes in this promise by Jesus to answer prayers

            John 14:13-14 “And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.”

            He says he will do anything ye ask so the father will be glorified.
            The opposite must also be true when he doesn’t answer prayers for genuine life saving needs.

          • LynnRH

            There aren’t any loopholes. God will always have the final say-so because He knows the future and He knows our hearts. He always (according to HIS WILL and PURPOSE) answers prayer. It may not be the way YOU want it but it will always be according to His purpose and for His Glory. Some prayers are even answered after the person who prayed it dies. I’ve seen that happen many times.

          • Tim Matter

            So, this promise that Jesus will do whatever a believer asks so that the father will be glorified, doesn’t really mean anything.
            If he cures the cancer, he was right.
            If he doesn’t cure the cancer, he was right too.

            In 1 Kings 18, when the prophets of Baal called out to him and he didn’t do what they asked, Isaiah took Baal’s inaction as proof he was a false god, and had the prophets killed.

          • LynnRH

            God is the Creator of the universe and everything within and without it. If there is anyone that can cure anyone from any sin it IS the LORD GOD. So yes…….prayer and religious counseling by true Christians can help a lost soul become a saved soul through Jesus Christ the Savior.

          • Michael C

            God is the Creator of the universe and everything within and without it. If there is anyone that can cure anyone from any sin it IS the LORD GOD. So yes…….prayer and religious counseling by true Christians can help a lost soul become a saved soul through Jesus Christ the Savior.

            If a being has the power to create a universe, I have no doubt that they’d also have the ability to turn gay people straight (if they so chose).

            I’m still waiting for the evidence that it happens.

            I have no issue with people having faith in things that cannot be proven but it’s foolish to rely on faith in things that can.

          • LynnRH

            You’ve already been told there ARE ex-gays and ex-transgenders. You just want to be blind to that.

          • Michael C

            You’ve already been told there ARE ex-gays and ex-transgenders. You just want to be blind to that.

            No, I want evidence to support the claim that there are ex-gay and ex-transgender men and women. Is that really so much to ask?

          • Tim Matter

            Michael C- Put a gun to anybody’s head and they’ll likely do anything you say. Christians threaten people with a fate worse than death. That explains why many people claim to be cured, and then can’t keep it up for a lifetime.

          • LynnRH

            like what kind of evidence are you talking about? Won’t people’s testimony work for you? Why in the world would someone who use to LOVE their sexual sin want to turn around one day and claim they are ex-gay or ex-transgender?

          • Michael C

            like what kind of evidence are you talking about? Won’t people’s testimony work for you?

            Unfortunately, people lie. People in the “ex-gay” movement are known to lie in great numbers. I’m not judging them, they’re often lying to even themselves.

            No, the testimony of liars is not very convincing to me.

            Why in the world would someone who use to LOVE their sexual sin want to turn around one day and claim they are ex-gay or ex-transgender?

            People claim that they have changed because they’re afraid of the hate and judgment of their family and friends. They’re afraid because of the treatment they will receive from strangers like yourself. They’re afraid of ridicule, rejection, and scorn. They’re afraid because people like you say things like “God triumphs over Satan any old day. And God will SHUT THEIR MOUTHS when He is good and ready. Could be a stroke, death, (hopefully repentance), or when they see Him face to face; but He WILL shut their mouths. God will have the last word!” to them.

            …and you want them to be afraid.

            People who treat gay people like this are the cause of these lies.

          • LynnRH

            See there you go again……..putting words in those ex-gay and ex-transgendered peoples mouths. You don’t have to believe them if you don’t want to. I don’t really care. I choose to believe them. And that is MY right.
            And the things I said that you mentioned above is the absolute trueth. Not trying to scare anybody…….just stating the facts.

          • Quince

            People can use religious language to “sell” an idea or a promise. But that has no bearing on the truth of the deity.

            I could claim that if a person pays me $100, I will teach them prayers that will cause god to heal their eyesight so that they will never need glasses. This statement would be a scam. This is about the speaker’s honesty not God’s power.

            The fact is: gay conversion therapy by whatever name has been shown to
            1. Not change sexual orientation, and
            2. Cause emotional damage and increae the risk of suicide.
            Regardless of God’s power, conversion therapy is harmful. Because of this harm, many states are making it illegal to subject minors to conversion therapy. Adults can do what they want, but subjecting minors to damaging “therapy” is wrong.

      • SFBruce

        Like others, I would love to know the studies to which you refer. From everything I’ve read, your claims are completely contrary to the current scientific consensus about sexual orientation.

    • HpO

      What I said to Rusty Winter who commented after you, may be worth 2 cents of your time, my friend. The gist being, nothing works, but there’s still that miracle thus far unrepeatable alluded to in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10: that “homosexuals … [as] such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.” Don’t ask me what apostle Paul did, but, it worked! His faith, see, is no longer the faith of me & my fellow born-again Christian brothers & sisters. The problem is us, our faith(lessness).

      • Rusty Writer

        The word “homosexual” does not belong in any bible. It is a modern medical term, not an ancient Hebrew one. To inject terminology about current medical issues into the bible is to deceive people, not inform them. You seem to be aware sexual orientation never changes, yet you use a single verse over and over to justify your anti-LGBT animus.

        • HpO

          Oh please don’t go there. I’ll lose every time. And we’ll stop talking, just when it’s getting interesting.

          Another confession. I’ve reviewed LGTBQ churches’ scholarly rebuttals of Fundamentalists and Evangelicals’ gay-bashing treatises. And I judge them the winner every time. All I’m interested in and trying to get others interested in is that miracle in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. Somebody better do some decent archaelogical investigations into it, I say. Scratch that terminology, I don’t care. Still, what was that all about? Curious, no?

          • Rusty Writer

            Verbal salad is an indicator of mental health breakdowns. Consider seeing a mental health professional, Hp0.

          • Rusty Writer

            Is Hp0 shorthand for Hip0crite?

          • HpO

            I appreciate the new tone (as opposed to something salad). Look, Rusty, around here I have been defending LGTBQs within the limits God & Jesus have given me. I am on your side, evangelistically speaking. All I have being with you is the gospel, that’s all. No gay-bashing involved. No deprivation of LGTBQs’ human rights. No crusading against LGTBQs – if outside the church. So, see, what perhaps this church in Riverview was only doing was looking after their own people, judging their own people over against the winds and waves of LGTBQism that are keeping them unstable in that gospel. The pastor’s PR, however, was very bad and suspicious. He should’ve kept his online curriculum posted online.

            I sure love your company here and Michael C’s.

          • Rusty Writer

            Thanks.

  • Rusty Writer

    “Gays can change through Christ” proclaimed evangelicals in ex-gay ministries for 40 years, but in 2013 every major, decades-old ex-gay ministry from the US to Australia closed due to the leaders admitting no Christian experienced a change of sexual orientation no matter how much they prayed, got born again, went through deliverance, counseling, bible study or therapy.

    • Rusty Writer

      What this church is doing is choosing to remain ignorant of the facts. Every medical association has explained for decades that sexual orientation is not a choice. And in court, reparative gay conversion therapy has been proven to be consumer fraud. The church claims they are not practicing conversion therapy, but they are. You can’t pray away the gay. You can’t pay away the gay.

      • glen ben

        Accualy your idea of born that began after 1973 when the homosexuals pressured the APA to change there diagnosis about homosexual behavior as being a mental disorder from the APA’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual Of Mental Disorders (DSM-II). That change was the result of power politics, threats, and intimidation, not scientific discoveries by the Gay Liberation Front.
        “as a man thinks in his heart, so he shall be” Proverbs 19:22

        • Rusty Writer

          Glen, every medical association in the free world has done studies for themselves and found the same thing: sexual orientation is not a choice, and cannot be changed at will. The fact gay people spoke up about their own lives at one meeting back in 1973 does not alter the facts. Glen, the Christians who created and ran the ex-gay ministries claimed change was possible through Christ for LGBT people. Their leaders admitted in 2013 no Christian experienced a change of orientation, so they closed every major, decades-old ex-gay ministry from the US to Australia. No such thing as ex-gay.

          • Rusty Writer

            Also, medical associations always listen to the people who they are treating. There is nothing sinister about that. Also, homosexuality was added to the DSM before any studies were done, but the studies of Evelyn Harper proved homosexuals are not mentally ill by doing a double-blind study in which the traits of the patient were listed without indicating whether the patient was heterosexual or homosexual. Turned out sexual orientation was not a mental illness. Every study since has found the same thing. PS what is your solution to homosexuality? Just incessantly ranting? That changes nothing.

          • glen ben

            well just by looking at the purpose of sex, we understand its primary and only purpose is to create offspring. Animals understand this fact but the only difference between them and humans is that we humans can reason our actions into anything we want to believe. So if a man thinks it is reasonable to put semen in a rectum to bear children ….well it may seem that man is thinking abnormally about sex’s purpose
            “as a man thinks in his heart, so he shall be” Proverbs 19:22

          • Rusty Writer

            Your animus is showing, Glen. You are trying to dehumanize all LGBT people by reducing them to one act. But the fact is there is no sexual act unique to LGBT people. Most people who have anal sex are heterosexual. And science is very close to allowing same-sex couples to create their own biological children together. Google it

          • Rusty Writer

            PS stop misusing scriptures. Your use of Prov 19 here makes as much sense as telling someone they can think their way to being white or blue eyed. All you are doing is proving you don’t care about the bible except to use it to try to hurt others

          • glen ben

            Don’t be bitter the Gospel truth offends everyone God is the Creator he not only is the manufacturer but he also wrote the owners manual. That make his ways the best. His ways are not our ways . We have gone astray

          • Rusty Writer

            FACT: the Gospel of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John do not have a single word to say against homosexuality. You must be reading from the gospel of bigotry.

          • Becky

            Rubbish. Christ said, “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?” (John 5:46,47). Christ was referring to the five books of Moses…he wrote explicitly about God’s utter condemnation against homosexuality (eg Genesis: destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. Leviticus: laws against sexual immorality including homosexuality). Christ declared the destruction of the sexually immoral and perverse Sodom and Gomorrah more than once (eg Lk 17:28-30, Matt10:15; 11:24, Jude1).

          • glen ben

            “telling someone they can think their way to being white or blue eyed. ”

            well Rusty, its your crowd who encourage some people to think they can turn into a different sex by thinking about it long enough and loping off body parts

          • Rusty Writer

            FACT: the gospel says Jesus had a sexual part lopped off 8 days after he was born.

          • Rusty Writer

            Over 1,600 species have some homosexuality. It is perfectly natural and part of the diversity of life. Fundies always want a black and white universe.

    • Danny Cleave

      Not sure where you found those stats or what they were doing wrong, but We have seen it happen plenty of times at our Church. Ex homosexuals now strait, and in love with Jesus and happier than they have ever been. Jesus loves all people and so do I, but the truth in God’s Word is our standard for right and wrong. Nothing is impossible with Christ.

      • Rusty Writer

        Danny, you are deceived. Newly saved Christians who are LGBT are often pressured into creating a testimony they are changed, but those claims never last or lead to heterosexuality. We know this from the people who dedicated their lives to this cause in the ex-gay ministries. Love in Action, the oldest one, had a year-long, live-in program for Christians seeking to change orientation via Christ. The long-time leader, John Schmid, admitted they could not give one name of one gay who had changed orientation for the long run. The only worldwide network for ex-gays, Exodus International, followed up in being honest, with their president, Alan Chambers, admitting that other than a few bisexual lesbians who were happy married to someone of the opposite sex, there was no long-term success in changing orientation.

        • Danny Cleave

          Hi Rusty, are you a Christian?

        • Rusty Writer

          Danny, I became born-again as a teen, went to Christian college and seminary, was part of the ex-gay ministries from nearly the beginning to the very end in 2013 on the TV program announcing the end of ex-gay ministries (see Dad’s homosexuality blamed for son’s death on youtube). I was ordained a pastor and served as a chaplain to homeless people.

    • HpO

      Point taken.

      Latest & greatest, though, is Stephen Black, Freedom Realized: Finding Freedom from Homosexuality & Living a Life Free from Labels, Redemption Press, 2017. Have you read it? The attempt’s still there. But more like toward homosexual celibacy, which, really, is neither here nor there for our dear friends.

      A fair (albeit unfavorable) review of that report, I thought, came from Kathy Baldock, “Freedom Realized by Stephen Black – A Book Review”, Canyonwalker Connections: LGBTQ Advocacyy, October 13, 2017. Fair, I say, when you evaluate Hemant Mehta’s closeminded review of same in “Christian Author: Jesus Cured Me of the Gay, and He Can Fix You Too”, Friendly Atheist, October 29, 2017.

      Me? I don’t know what to recommend. All I know – AND BELIEVE – is what 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 claims: that “homosexuals … [as] such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.” Thing is, none of us Bible Christians has discovered how to clone that TRUE miracle.

      • Rusty Writer

        The leaders of the national and international ex-gay ministries reluctantly admitted they had not one single gay who they could point to as a success story in changing orientation to heterosexual. And they knew Stephen Black. Keep in mind that Stephen Black makes all of his money peddling the proven falsehoods of the now closed ex-gay ministries. He runs his own one-man shop with no accountability to anyone. And he speaks at the tiny new ex-gay ministry, but they simply call homosexuality a sin. They have no method to change orientation. They simply hate homosexuality and condemn it with no way to do anything about it. Gays in the ex-gay ministries had unsafe anonymous sex and then came back to denounce homosexuality all the louder each time. Do not be surprised if Black is caught in this cycle, too. Black is a bitter, raging person with the hardest heart I have ever encountered.

        • HpO

          I hear you.

          And that’s why I appreciated these points from Baldock:

          (1) “A survey of [Stephen Black’s] ministry clients show[s] that ‘at least 72 percent have found lasting freedom from sinful behavior …’ (p. 265 [in Freedom Realized: Finding Freedom from Homosexuality & Living a Life Free from Labels, Redemption Press, 2017]) I have always been respectful of people’s conversion and transformation stories. I will likewise do so with Black’s story.”

          (2) “Question 28 … after leaving First Stones Ministries, were you sexually addicted (4%), experienced some progress (18%), mostly free (34%) or free from sexual addiction (29%), and no response (14%). … Same question to those with one or more years at FSM – addicted (5%), some progress (23%), mostly free (40%) and free (33%). From these key questions, Black combines ‘mostly free’ (40%) and ‘free’ (33%) to arrive at his conclusion that, for those who have spent a year or more in ministry at FSM, 73% of clients have found ‘freedom from homosexuality.'”

          (3) “There are so many problems with this survey, the questions, the response choices, the conflating of same-sex attracted but not gay or homosexual, expanding the numbers to the entire client base, and other problems a qualified statistician/data analyst is likely already scratching their head over.”

          • Rusty Writer

            Black is a charlatan who makes all his income by peddling the ex-gay scam. Black’s study is a fraud completely contradicted by every ex-gay survey of the past, as well as by every medical study. Note: Black’s study is not a study. It is not peer reviewed, It was a survey which he alone controlled. The late Dr. Nicolosi used to do the same thing, but he was proven wrong so many times he stopped creating such obviously fraudulent ‘studies.’

          • Rusty Writer

            Black was known to ex-gay leaders when they announced they knew of not one Christian who had experienced a change of orientation. His own peers saw him as a bitter, raging and cruel scammer. I was in the meetings in which the decision was made to end ex-gay ministries forever.

    • Demonic influence is always 100% to blame for all sins and especially for all that is LGBT and whatever other letters are now part of that satanic alphabet soup. It is a spiritual/sin problem and Christ Jesus is the only cure. The conventional conversion therapy that did not work was because it was not Christ centered and oriented. Unless the afflicted actually admit their sins and want to be free from the guilt and demonic bondage and confess that to God then nothing will change for that individual.

      • Rusty Writer

        Every bigot in history demonized the minority group they hated. Your way was tried tens of thousands of times. Never worked once, per the ex-gay leaders of the national and international ex-gay ministries. But there is one hilarious deliverance testimony on youtube you can watch by searching for delivert don’t want no mans no more (and pay attention to the pastor slipping the man a $100 bill right before he makes his claims).

        • SECOND ATTEMPT….

          Ex Homosexual Testimony / Spiritual Warfare Freedom From Demons Influencing Thoughts & Desires
          https://wwwDOTyoutubeDOTcom/watch?v=7612rLieX9A

          • Rusty Writer

            Your link is phony, goes nowhere. But let me enlighten you. Tens of thousands of such testimonials were made since 1973, but in every case when a follow-up was done 5 or 10 years later, the person admitted they were not heterosexual.

        • And FYI….I hate no one.

          • Rusty Writer

            If so, you are the first bigot to not hate.

      • Robin Egg

        Amen.

        • Rusty Writer

          Robin, that was tried for 40 years, but never changed anyone’s sexual orientation. And Jesus went his whole life (per the gospels) without saying a single word against homosexuals. Follow his example.

          • God is a triune God in that He is Father, SON and Holy Spirit; so YES every word of same sex sex aka homosexuality was spoken by Jesus in both the Old and New Covenants.

          • Rusty Writer

            Doug, sure you want to make that claim? That means you must stone to death any bride who cannot prove she is a virgin (revealing the barbaric man who wrote that did not even realize a hymen could be lost any other way than via intercourse). You must execute adulterers, gays, anyone who changes religions, anyone who eats pork or shellfish, or wears 2 different fabrics at the same time. Even in the NT Jesus said to cut the hand off sinners and pluck out their eyes, as well as to kill kids who spoke disrespectfully of their parents.

          • Rusty Writer

            Doug is someone who ignores thousands of bible verses, but goes all in on the few he thinks can override medical science and the fact ex-gay leaders have admitted nobody experienced a change of orientation even after decades of following Jesus. And those who wed an opposite sex spouse anyway end up divorced in 9 of 10 marriages.

          • glen ben

            you already said that. Do you have anything else to add

          • Rusty Writer

            LOL, says the man who repeated prov 19 about a dozen times. but thanks for asking, I do have more to add. Jesus affirmed the love of a same-sex male couple in the Gospel of Matthew. google Jesus affirmed same-sex couple Matthew MCC hope for the passages and context.

          • glen ben

            is that in the metropolitan church’s bible ? cause it is not in mine

          • Rusty Writer

            It is in your bible. See where in the link I suggested

      • David Arakelian

        No, it is not the result of demonic influence. It’s the result of developmental delays. You don’t understand the intersection between Theology and Psychology. To simply attribute homosexuality to demonic influence does a disservice to those who are trying to have their lives changed.

        • LynnRH

          All sin (including homosexuality) is demonic influenced. Satan is the god of sin. That’s the reason he no longer lives in Heaven. God will not allow sin to be in Heaven. Otherwise we wouldn’t be any better off there than we are here on this God-forsaken world.

          • David Arakelian

            How many of you are involved with exgay ministry? I am. I know what works, and what doesn’t work.

          • LynnRH

            God ALWAYS works! People just have to keep their eyes on Jesus and out of the gutter.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            what works is Christ …..

          • David Arakelian

            Do you not believe in Christian counseling? Christian counselors use a variety of techniques in addition to the Bible let.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you re going to have to define further ……. Christians do not need to go beyond the text so i am not sure what you mean ……………….

          • David Arakelian

            Christian counselors do much more than share Scripture with their clients. Christian counselors try to help their clients to discover what the legitimate needs are behind their struggles, so that the clients can turn to the Lord for healing. Almost all gay men have not felt that they belonged in the world of straight men. Hence, Christian counselors help their clients to realize that just isn’t true.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            okay … i can agree with most of that ….. so are you saying you rely on scripture and also its application …………

          • David Arakelian

            Yes

          • David Arakelian

            PS Please show me the Scripture that says that exgay men belong in the world of ever straight men? There isn’t one. How how would you counsel such a person? Be specific. Quoting Scripture at them isn’t helpful.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            okay ….. quoting scripture and getting their conviction of their sin is what is going to save them …… anything less than their salvation in Christ Jesus is a waste of time and effort …… getting them to a point where they can “live” with their sin should not be the goal ……. and if they cannot come to terms with Christ and scripture …… then we have to come to a realization that they are not meant to be saved … YET at least ….. God is not here to save every person ….. universal salvation is a lie …… and trading one lie for another is not going to save them either ……. their salvation is paramount and the ultimate goal ……. not to make them comfortable with what they have done ….. but to make them uncomfortable with it to the point that they want to leave it for something better ….. Christ is better …….

          • David Arakelian

            You do not understand the dynamics involved. No one is saying that they don’t need salvation. That’s only the start. But there’s a whole host of spiritual and psychological healing that has to take place. You don’t seem to have a grasp on that.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            no … i do ….. and they are no different than any other unrepentant sinner ….. FYI ….. every person ever born ….. and the cure is the exact same thing for every one of them …. sorry …. US …… and that is Christ and His word ….. look …. i understand that there needs to be a sort of individual treatment of each person …… i get that ….. but the disease is the same ….. sin ….. and the cure is the same ….. Christ …………. i respect the work that you are doing ….. i do not really know you so i have no condemnation of what you are doing ….. i do not know you well enough for that ….. i actually have had thoughts in the direction you are working … as a Christian counselor ….. i still have to pray on how to best do that …..

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            BTW ….. in what state do you work …………

        • And you do not understand God, His Holy Word and the dynamics of sin.

      • AMEN!!

        This is KEY:

        “It is a spiritual/sin problem and Christ Jesus is the only cure. The conventional conversion therapy that did not work was because it was not Christ centered and oriented. Unless the afflicted actually admit their sins and want to be free from the guilt and demonic bondage and confess that to God then nothing will change for that individual.

        That preaches. And that is why we do not argue with the reprobate because all a reprobate will do is argue and defend their sin choice and their “right” to sin and rebel against God.

        • LC, I did not know any other way of contacting you for this. It sounds important.

          abbygirl08 Doug Bristow • 9 hours ago
          Doug, would you please contact LC and ask her to read my post on her channel? It is being held pending approval. Someone is impersonating her as well as other channel owners, along with other commenters also. So far, I’ve counted about 24 different IDs this person is using to impersonate others. It needs to be reported to Disqus. Thanks.

      • cadcoke5

        I think you are correct that realizing the sinfulness of things like homosexuality is an important step towards healing of that sexual bondage. I also agree that a demon can be involved. Lucifer was certainly in the lead for the rebellion against God. But, many descriptions of temptation that I see in the Bible, are not attributed to demonic influence.

        James 1:14,15 “but each man is tempted, when he is drawn away by his own lust, and enticed. Then the lust, when it hath conceived, beareth sin: and the sin, when it is fullgrown, bringeth forth death.

        I Cor 5:33 “Be not deceived: Evil companionship corrupt good morals.”

        I also see that little children can be lead astray by people. Jesus said,
        Mark 9:42 “But if you cause one of these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone hung around your neck.” I imagine that this can lead to some scarring of their moral compass.

        There may also be a process where a youth, who has reached puberty, is lead astray by a sexual predator. Their brain can lay down neural pathways for the pleasure sex brings, and they get associated with sexual sin. These scars are not so easily shaken. And while God can provide miraculous healing, he does not always do so here on Earth. This may be like someone who starts getting intoxicated with cocaine, or alcohol. Those desires do not necessarily go away the moment they are saved.

        From what I have read from those who minister to homosexuals, they may be truly saved, but struggle with these desires their whole lives. All Christians are guaranteed complete healing in Heaven though. Rev 21:4 ” He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”

      • Amos Moses – He>i

        AMEN………….

  • Invite those folks to the Sunday service. Let them hear about the love of God in Christ Jesus !!

    • Rusty Writer

      Surveys show that the first thing to come to mind when the public hears the word “evangelical” is “those people who hate gays.”

      • A true “born again” believer in Jesus, loves the Lord and His word – the bible. Christ, God in the flesh, died on a cross to forever destroy the wall of separation between us and God because of our sin. We are all sinners. There all types of sin. (God loves us but hates our sin) Christ’s death and resurrection has given, to all who repent of their sins and confess Christ as their Lord and Saviour, an open door into eternal life. A life that starts
        the moment of “rebirth” and will continue on into eternity. Thats why they call the Gospel – the good news.

        • Rusty Writer

          FACT: Here is what the gospels tell us Jesus said against homosexuality during his life: (___________________________________).
          Go and follow his example.

        • LynnRH

          Amen! Give God all the Glory!

  • glen ben

    alot of homosexaul trolls are here today pehaps their comments would be more appreciative on GLBTXYZ sites

    • Rusty Writer

      Evangelicals under 30 are already far more accepting of LGBT people than their elders are, and in another generation LGBT issues will be no more controversial than interracial marriage is today.

      • Rusty Writer

        PS you cannot even spell homosexual so that tells us you know nothing about LGBT issues, glen. And several university studies show that the more incessant a homophobe is against gays the more likely he is aroused by male bodies and gay porn.

        • Rusty Writer

          Not surprisingly, glen ben has a racist assessment of President Obama as his profile pic. Racism and gaycism go together. they are bigotry masked as Christianity.

          • glen ben

            well somebody has to be a bigot(right) so it might as well be the christians since they have read the only owners manual,the Bible

          • Rusty Writer

            Fortunately, liberal Christians keep opposing the literalists. Liberal Christians brought us an end to slavery, segregation, Jim Crow laws, and almost killed the KKK (which is totally made up of fundamentalist Christians). Liberal Christians ended the bans on interracial marriage, laws against women voting, and brought us to full equality under the civil laws for LGBT people. Most Christians alive today are fine with LGBT people. The fundie minority keep whipping up the hate, and in fact are known by 9 of 10 people surveyed as “the people who hate gays.”

  • Rusty Writer

    If this church convinced a lesbian to wed a man, that would be considered a success story. But mixed-orientation marriages end in divorce 9 of 10 times. And they always cause pain to entire families as the confusion and lack of passion lead to unforeseen struggles.

  • ppp777

    “And God gave them over to a reprobate mind ” , seems you don’t know what that term means .

  • Becky

    There are many testimonials of people that have willingly left homosexuality through Christ our Lord. This has been happening for centuries (1 Corinthians 6:9-11).

    • ppp777

      Really .

    • ^ TRUTH!

      I know several who practiced that lifestyle choice and are now living free from that sin and abomination, serving God and some are married to people of the opposite gender.

      Thank you for sharing that!!

  • Vince

    Of course they can be transformed. All of us know individuals who have changed. It’s true that many people try (or at least they say they tried) and then fail, but that is no proof that change is impossible. God can do anything.

  • We belong to God. We are NOT our own. If someone asks for help, Christians, the church, etc. have a right, maybe even an obligation to help them. Furthermore, we are taught and believe:

    1 Corinthians 6:15-20 (KJV)
    15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
    16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
    17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
    18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
    19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
    20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.

  • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

    PurePassion is really good.

  • Charles Howard

    The moment I realized there was no God and accepted my homosexuality, I found true peace and happiness.

    • LynnRH

      You sooooo don’t know what you are missing by NOT believing and actively getting to know Him through a relationship. You are sooooo missing out.

      And by the way……..why are you here on this Christian website if you don’t like what we stand for (God’s Holy Word)? Just another Satan follower come to see if you can make unbelievers out of true believers? Just come to see what kind of a stink you can make? Surely there are plenty of unbeliever websites you can go to that will have topics you would enjoy more and bloggers that are more to your liking and likeness?

      • Charles Howard

        Hoping some poor kid who stumbles on here sees hope in freedom and not brainwashed oppression

        • LynnRH

          If he’s not already saved I pray that he will be blessed by all the comments about Jesus’ love and forgiveness. I hope and pray he will want to know Jesus more and read His Holy Word.

          And I know you don’t want to be prayed for but you will be…..like it or not.

        • Amos Moses – He>i

          so he should not read your missives then …. right ……….

  • Charles Howard

    Love all the deleted comments. Censorship at its finest.

  • glen ben

    why bother to have a comment section if the website deletes them?

  • LynnRH

    You know……it has dawned on me today that I have allowed myself to buy into exactly what those people on this website ( that hate what true Christians stand for) is trying to do. That is to keep a big stink going on so that it can cause more animosity between believers and non-believers. And there I was…….suckered into it! Well no more. From now on I will keep my focus on sharing God’s Word and not allow myself to feel I need to “defend” God’s Word. My job is strictly to obey Him and spread the Good News to other’s. And then leave it at that. God doesn’t need my defending of Him; he’s plenty big enough to do that Himself. When I make a comment or express my opinion and someone else want to make their big stink out of it they will just have to argue with themselves. I won’t give them the satisfaction of trying to make me feel i’m wrong to stand with God. I choose to forgive your hatefulness and will continue to pray for each of you whether you like it or not.

  • BayAreaGuy

    These people are not “helping” anyone. They are operating under the misguided notions that 1) homosexuality is bad, and 2) sexual orientation can be changed. There isn’t a shred of evidence for either of those propositions.

    What we do have, however, is evidence that 1) homosexuality is simply a variant of sexual orientation, and that it exists in hundreds of species, including humans, and 2) sexual orientation is biologically determined, and immutable.

    Unfortunately, many of the people who undergo this absurd and ineffective “treatments” end up depressed, and possibly even suicidal. If you are really the loving people you claim to be, you’d never want to subject someone to that.

  • NCOriolesFan

    So what is wrong with Conversion Therapy? As Christians, aren’t they supposed to CONVERT non-beleivers to beleivers? The Holy Bible is the therapy needed to correct sinful lives into sinless ones.