Christian Displays Removed From Elementary School Classroom Following Atheist Complaint

KENOSHA, Wisc. — A number of Christian displays have been removed from an elementary school classroom in Wisconsin after one of the nation’s most conspicuous atheist activist organizations sent a letter asserting that the posters and symbols were unconstitutional.

Rob Moore, the local chapter president of the Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF), told WTMJ-TV that he had complained for months about the displays in his son’s fourth grade classroom at Pleasant Prairie Elementary School in Kenosha. Earlier this month, the organization’s headquarters sent a letter to the school district to request an investigation.

“I don’t want someone’s personal myth-ark enforced in the classroom,” Moore, an atheist, told the outlet.

Among the objects that Moore found objectionable were a cross hanging over a whiteboard, a poster that said “In God We Trust,” another poster that listed vices and virtues, and a picture that includes the phrase “God bless America.”

“The district violates the Constitution when it allows its schools to display religious symbols or messages. Public schools may not advance, prefer or promote religion,” the letter from FFRF read. “[The teacher’s] religious classroom decorations violate this basis constitutional prohibition by creating the appearance that the district prefers religion over non-religion, and Christianity over all faiths.”

“This religious display is particularly inappropriate given that about 38% of Americans born after 1987 are not religious,” it asserted. “The display alienates those nonreligious students, families, teachers, and members of the public whose religious beliefs are inconsistent with the message being promoted by the school.”

The organization requested assurance that the displays would be removed from the classroom, in addition to a response to other concerns that include alleged field trips by some schools in the district to Timber-Lee Christian Center.

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According to Moore, the teacher has removed the posters and cross in light of FFRF’s letter. Read the letter in full here. The district has not commented on the matter except to state that it is under investigation.

“The district is aware of the allegations and is working with our legal team to investigate the claims. No further details can be provided due to the pending investigation,” said Communications Director Tanya Ruder.

As previously reported, in 1806, Dr. Benjamin Rush, a signer of the Declaration of Independence and vice-president of the Bible Society of Philadelphia, said, “The only means of establishing and perpetuating our republican forms of government is the universal education of our youth in the principles of Christianity by means of the Bible.”

In 1828, just 41 years after the signing of the U.S. Constitution, Noah Webster, known as the Father of American Scholarship and Education, wrote, “In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government, ought to be instructed. … No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people.”

 


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  • ZappaSaid88

    Good. Keep education neutral.

  • JPT

    What is gained by displays of piety in an otherwise secular setting, and why can it not be attained if the display is deferred?

    • Bezukhov

      The gain? To see how many little heads they can dunk under water in a given school year.

  • The Skeptical Chymist

    Whoever approved this display (presumably the teacher or a member of the school administration) is simply marking the classroom as Christian territory, letting everyone who is non-Christian or atheist know that they are members of a lesser class. Teachers and administrators are there to serve the educational needs of their students, and should not be using government facilities or their role as government employees as platforms to promote their personal religious beliefs. This would be wrong if it were an atheist posting quotations from Christopher Hitchens book “God is Not Great”, or a Muslim posting quotations from the Koran, a Satanist posting quotes from The Satanist Bible, or a Mormon posting quotations from the Book of Mormon.

    This sort of thing happens far too frequently, and it is always those who belong to the dominant religion who feel they have the right to do so. It is long past time for hefty fines to be levied to discourage this sort of unconstitutional activity. If the teacher wants to be a preacher, he/she should make a career change.

  • Luminous

    The anti-Christian persecution will only increase. This isn’t a bad thing. A Christianity that conformed to the secular culture would never be persecuted, nor would it save anyone. Remember, brothers and sisters, it all started with a cross.

    • MarkSebree

      What “anti-christian persecution”? Christians are not being persecuted, they are being told that they have to play by the same rules as everyone else and obey the law. All that is being done is the privileges that you have taken for granted are being called out, and the privileges are being denied. That is not persecution.

      If you think that you are being persecuted in the USA where you have so much power and such a large number and percentage of adherents, then explain exactly how you are being persecuted. By the way, not being given favorable status is not persecution. Not being allowed to proselytize to children and captive audiences is also not persecution. Not being permitted to use the government to enshrine into law your beliefs and religion is also not persecution.

      • sandraleesmith46

        NO: we are NOT; and the RULES are very obviously NOT rules for EVERYONE! If Christianity can’t be taught in schools neither can humanism/evolution, a religion that requires FAR greater blind faith to believe than Christianity; Islam can’t be taught or brought into schools etc; yet they are daily!

        • Adam Valentine

          Evolution is not a religion. It is science. Is chemistry a religion? Geology?

          • sandraleesmith46

            It’s science as much as Islam is religion; both are deceits. It’s pure unadulterated religion requiring BLIND FAITH to hold to it. There’s no “science” in it; indeed, SCIENCE is leaning more and more toward Intelligent design, and an Intelligent Designer! Evolution is not in the least like chemistry OR geology; I’ve studied them all.

          • Sunisyde

            Science and Religion ‘are compatible.’

          • Rookheight

            Sure they are, as long as it’s a religion that doesn’t conflict with scientific facts like evolution.

            If you have a system of religious beliefs that include scientific falsehoods, then those religious beliefs are not compatible with science.

          • ppp777

            Chemistry and geology is science evolution isn’t

          • Adam Valentine

            What an ignorant comment. Just because your Bible disagrees with it, doesn’t mean you can just dismiss it as “not science”. Geology says the earth is much older than 6k – 10k years old. Are you going to say that’s not science? Literally everything we know, in every discipline of science supports evolution. That’s a fact. If you know otherwise, publish your work, disprove evolution and go collect your Nobel prize.

          • ppp777

            Geology tells you what you want to see nothing else , just to show how deluded you really are you think every discipline in science supports evolution , the obvious fact tells you the complete opposite is true , evolution is nothing but a religion and a bad one at that .

          • Adam Valentine

            Please provide me with one “obvious” fact in the fields of biology, paleontology, molecular biology, genetics, anthropology, etc that tells me they don’t support evolutionary theory.

          • ppp777

            It violates all natural laws [ and I mean all ] .

          • Rookheight

            Cite please.

            What exactly do you mean by “natural laws”? I have a feeling you just mean “what makes sense to me,” which is not science, but please prove me wrong.

      • Sunisyde

        Of course you’re an American Communist and no you do not play by the rules. If you did, there wouldn’t be mayhem in the streets, Antifa, the feminist movement w/their display of vagina hats, hatred for cops and yes, ‘the Law!’ So if you played by the rules, you would not be a left-wing Anarchist forcing everyone else to conform to your rules, your way of life. If you actually entered a church today (if you did, the building might collapse) you would realize that most churches are being silenced and forced to go along with ‘your Agenda.’ And as far as you state, proselytizing to children & captive audiences, its your kind that are forcing your agenda, your lifestyle down the throats of children and spreading your lies everywhere you go. Yes, its your kind who ‘is’ persecuting Christians and people who do not think like you!

      • Texas Belle

        The country was founded on religious principles, and before the “politically correct” Leftists took over, prayer was allowed in almost all schools. There is nothing in the Constitution regarding the separation of Church and State. A poster in a school room does not mean that religion is being forced on the children. If Islamists can pray in school, certainly Christians should have the same privilege. There are too many groups and individuals who are looking every day for something they don’t like, and demanding that something be done. We should stop caving to every complaint, and stand up for AMERICAN principles.

        • Rookheight

          Prayers are allowed in schools, and have been upheld by the courts, so long as teachers aren’t leading students in prayers or otherwise using their position as government employees to promote religion, which is what was happening in this story.

          If you understand that, then can you show one example of a public school teacher who has been allowed to lead students in an Islamic prayer?

        • Samwise

          The only prayer that is forbidden in public schools is prayer that is led by or organized by adults, so that students are led in prayer to the teacher’s deity regardless of their own beliefs.

          This applies equally to protestant teachers, catholic teachers, muslim teachers, etc. No teacher can lead students in prayer (or set up prayers to their deity by asking a student to pray).

          Students are free to pray on their own or with other students who choose to pray with them. Or to not pray to any deity. This also true for all students. Muslim students can pray with each other during free time during Ramadan. Christians can pray with each other every day at lunch.

    • Rookheight

      Your persecution is imagined. But thanks for being so open about how you want to be persecuted.

      • Sunisyde

        Wow, U must have your head in the sand! One religious persecution that comes to mind is the couple who were being forced to bake a wedding cake for two homosexuals and because this was against the religious belief of the couple they chose not to bake the cake. Well these homosexuals could easily have gone to another bakery to bake their cake but they decided to cry ‘discrimination.’ Long story short, the couple who owned the bakery were sued by these homo’s in Court and so they closed their bakery rather then to do something that was against their conscience. This is one example of religious Persecution. There are many more, too numerous to mention here

        • Rookheight

          Oh, the horror! How dare the state impose civil rights statutes to prevent public businesses from discriminating in their public accommodations! Next thing you know, the state will force them to bake a cake for black people who walk in to their store!

          It’s actually extremely telling that this is literally the best example of Christian “persecution” that exists in the country right now. It’s not just that it’s the example you came up with (along with an ethereal “many more, too numerous to mention”), but it’s also the best case that far-right Christian “religious liberty” law firms have been able to find to push their case in the courts.

          Being forced to follow civil rights laws—that’s the extent of Christian persecution in the U.S.

          • Texas Belle

            How about Catholic and other religious hospitals being forced to perform abortions? The State condoning murder?? Yes, there are many instances of persecution, too numerous to mention here.

          • Rookheight

            You know, you can look this stuff up online. Catholic hospitals have sued over being told they have to perform abortions, and the hospitals have won. I don’t think it would be persecution to require hospitals to perform comprehensive healthcare for women, but in this case Catholic hospitals have gotten their way.

            Do you have any *actual* examples of Christian persecution in this country, or just imagined ones?

        • Samwise

          A baker offers a product for sale, but doesn’t get to say “we don’t serve your kind” when a customer wishes to buy the product the baker advertises for sale.

          It is the baker who is doing tge discriminating. The customer just wants a cake just like the baker makes every day.

    • MCrow

      Iraqi Christians facing death in their home country for their faith were turned away from the US this month. But yes, you not being able to force your beliefs onto children, that’s the real persecution

      • sandraleesmith46

        Yeah, and WHY do you think THEY were the ones turned away??? BECAUSE they were CHRISTIANS!

        • MCrow

          No, it’s because of where they are from. They’re one of the countries on the list that the current government has all but blacklisted. It’s not because of their religion: it’s because of where they were born

          • sandraleesmith46

            NOT true; Muslims were brought in, in floods, from those SAME nations during the same time frame.

          • MCrow

            Incorrect. The majority of former immigrants were Chaldean Christians. Currently, the administration is avoiding allowing anyone from the Middle East to immigrate. This, by the way, is perhaps two weeks old, so your claims of “droves” is, at best, exaggerated.

          • sandraleesmith46

            Sorry; but that’s a flat LIE and anyone tracking the refugee patterns KNOWS that.

          • MCrow

            Ok, let me go ahead and spell this out.

            The refugees are being turned away because of the President’s Executive Order. This has 0 to do with their religion. He has banned all people who are citizens of seven countries from entering the US.

            They were not banned because they are Christians. They were banned because they are lumped in with people Americans are taught are supposed to be scary and evil.

            44% of the immigrants admitted to the US from the Middle East are Christian, despite making up less than 10% of the population

          • sandraleesmith46

            NOW, yes; but the 40 odd years prior to his administration that was NOT the case!

          • MCrow

            Actually, the reverse is true: according to the Bureau of Immigration, the vast majority of Middle Eastern immigrants were Christian. It’s only recently that more Muslims have started immigrating, likely due to the war in the region endangering civilian lives and livelihoods

          • sandraleesmith46

            Nonsense; even O’s own administration statistics make a freaking LIE of that; it was at a rate of about 5,000 Muslims to 1 Christian; so STOP YOUR LIES.

          • MCrow

            The official records say otherwise, as do numerous polls and studies. If you have proof, please lay it out

          • Sunisyde

            You cannot argue with McCrow, he’s been thoroughly Indoctrinated by the Media, Government Screwels, Universities, Professors and anyone who espouses hatred. You are correct in that the majority of immigrants flowing into this country are Muslims, not Christians from the Middle East.

          • sandraleesmith46

            I don’t even want to argue with him; I simply pointed out the truth. I recognize the symptoms. The ONLY place taking Christians in any numbers from the ME is POLAND and we aren’t Poland.

          • Texas Belle

            During the Obama Administration this country was flooded with Muslims who came here and immediately tried to force us to adhere to their religious beliefs and practices. If you come to this country, either follow American standards and become a citizen, or go back home.

          • sandraleesmith46

            Channeling ol’ TR there a bit, ma’am! I couldn’t agree more. I grew up among many immigrants in the wake of WW II, from all around the world; went to school with their kids, etc. MOST of those who came here, like those who’d come in during the 19th and earlier 20th century, came for exactly that reason and many had the spirit of 1776 when they arrived here. They WANTED to learn English, American customs and our history and civics; and to insure that their KIDS did too. That changed in the later ’60s and the ones coming since then, especially the illegals and so-called “refugees” have not only not wanted to learn, but by and large refused to do so, especially those practicing the poison of Islam.

          • Rookheight

            Even if what you said were factually accurate (which it’s not), unless these immigrants also immediately got government jobs, which they used to promote their religion, then the point is moot anyway. Nobody is complaining about private citizens promoting Christianity, only government employees.

        • Progressive Republican

          Yeah, no.

          • sandraleesmith46

            IF it had been where they were from why were Muslims from the SAME area allowed IN, while the Christians were rejected? GET THE FACTS, Bigot!

          • Progressive Republican

            All you’ve presented was disproven within hours of its coming out.

            If you can provide facts to the contrary , do so.

          • sandraleesmith46

            NOT SO: disproven by whom? WaPo? Huff Po? CNN??? FIND an actual NEWS source; there are many out here.

          • Progressive Republican

            You mentioned some pretty reputable sourcrs thete.

            Congratulations. Perhaps there’s hope for you.

          • sandraleesmith46

            The ONLY “reputation” any of those scandal rags has is for their LIES!

          • Progressive Republican

            Ah. Another poor schmuck whose latest god occupues the WH, incapable of accepting verfiable facts while offering naught but lies themselves thus rendering discussion pointless and, therefore, as big a waste of time as you are of skin and the resources to support you.

            Guess i shoulda known.

            Good luck in your continuing battle with reality.

            You’ll need it.

            You’ll lose.

          • sandraleesmith46

            No, dude, my god doesn’t occupy the WH; I didn’t even vote for the dude; and my loyalty here is to the Constitution, not ANY human. Y’all on the left re the ones with a serious reality problem.

    • Rippie

      There’s no persecution. You’re crazy.

      • Sunisyde

        You must be living in a State that legalized Marijuana

        • Rookheight

          That’s an odd scapegoat to turn to when your imagined persecution is challenged. If you’re right, maybe legalizing marijuana nationwide will make people realize that Christian persecution in the United States is a myth!

  • MCrow

    Religions who do such things have given up. They don’t think their morality will actually win people over, and so they use temporal power to impose their beliefs on others. If they really had faith, they would have no need to push things onto a literally captive audience

    • Amos Moses – He>i

      why not …. you do ……….

      • MCrow

        Nope. I have no need to force my beliefs. You fundies do a perfectly job of converting folks to atheism. I can’t top it

        • Amos Moses – He>i

          BULL ROAR ….. that is your only reason for being here …. on a CHRISTIAN FORUM ….. to wave your stink in every christians face you choose to encounter ….. see …. this is a CHRISTIAN forum ….. and not an A-THEIST forum …… and we did not go looking for you to convert you …… you came here to offend us ….. and that is all you do …………

          • MCrow

            Ah, see, I was on an atheist fourm and directed here by a member who did come to convert. I figured I’d return the favor and apply things like logic and law to…well, matters of logic and law so you don’t get into an echo chamber. I came too late, sadly

        • Amos Moses – He>i

          Liberals claim holding to Scripture makes people leave Christianity. They don’t understand it exposes they were not Christians to begin with

          • MCrow

            I didn’t say Scripture, I said Christianity. I don’t believe in scripture. Too many inconsistencies for my taste, but a lot of people leave because they look at the Church and see nothing but hypocrisy. When pastors commit rape and their congregations silence victims, when churches demand forgiveness for their membership while condemning others, when Christians claim love while spewing hate…that’s why a lot of people are leaving.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            whatever dewd …………….

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “I don’t believe in scripture. Too many inconsistencies for my taste”

            must be hard when REAL SCIENCE confirms those as NOT inconsistencies ……

            In his latest study that was published Thursday in the journal, Science, Tschauner was ecstatic to find impurities in diamonds – which typically depreciates their worth – and the water found inside them helps to explain exactly how the topology of the Earth was formed.

            “Small inclusions in diamonds brought up from the mantle provide valuable clues to the mineralogy and chemistry of parts of Earth that we cannot otherwise sample,” the Science piece, “VII Inclusions in Diamonds: Evidence for Aqueous Fluid in Earth’s Deep Mantle” stated. “Tschauner et al. found inclusions of the high-pressure form of water called ice-VII in diamonds sourced from between 410 and 660 km depth – the part of the mantle known as the transition zone … The inclusions suggest that local aqueous pockets form at the transition zone boundary owing to the release of chemically bound water as rock cycles in and out of this region.”

            And this groundbreaking discovery was in no way isolated, as Tschauner found water injected inside of diamonds that were jettisoned from miles beneath Earth’s surface in areas spanning the globe – from China, to Botswana, to the Republic of South Africa.

            “This shows that this is a global phenomenon,” the UNLV scientist insisted.

            With such intense pressure deep within the mantle – which lies beneath the 10-mile-thick layer known as Earth’s crust – water trapped miles underground was not considered likely by most scientists in past decades.

            “Scientists theorize the diamonds used in the study were born in the mantle under temperatures reaching more than 1,000-degrees Fahrenheit,” WND explained. “The mantle – which makes up more than 80 percent of the Earth’s volume – is made of silicate minerals containing iron, aluminum, and calcium among others. Until relatively recently, scientists were skeptical that water could be found there.”

            scripture and christianity CONFIRMED …… by REAL SCIENCE …..

          • MCrow

            Tossing aside anything that you disagree with isn’t how science works.

            And all your post shows is that science and discovery work as intended: we find information, and analyze it objectively. If you think this somehow confirms that the Bible is true, you’re sadly mythtaken

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            and yet IT CONFIRMS scripture ….. and it as i said when you began your little hissy fit against God with me ………………

          • MCrow

            You begin with the idea that Scripture is true. You take your evidence to conform to that and disregard anything that could contradict it. That is religion, not science.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “lot of people leave because they look at the Church and see nothing but hypocrisy.”

            seek and you shall find … and if that is what you seek ….. that is what you will find …… FYI …… EVERYBODY in the church is a SINNER ….. again ….. SO WHAT ……. and you are REALLY a HYPOCRITE and a LIAR ………

            “I don’t believe in scripture. Too many inconsistencies for my taste”
            “I didn’t say Scripture, I said Christianity.”

            self-contradictory HYPOCRISY ………..

          • MCrow

            Right. I tell you I don’t believe scriptures, what I actually said, and that’s hypocrisy? Would you prefer I said I was a Christian? That would make me a liar, but then I’m a liar no matter what because liar seems to be what you default to calling anyone who presents something you disagree with but can’t actually drum up evidence for.

            People in church can have drug fueled orgies for all I care. But if they do, they’d better not turn around and say doing so is sinful, but it’s ok for them because their god forgives them but not me

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you spread other lies ….. and THAT makes you a liar ……. and a hypocrite ………..

          • MCrow

            I’m sorry that you think that anyone who disagrees with you is a liar. It must make connecting with other humans difficult

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope … your are a liar … not because we disagree …. but because you spread lies ……

          • MCrow

            Back up your claims. Otherwise, all you are doing is calling me a liar because I don’t follow the same religion

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            why … you dont ……….

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “when Christians claim love while spewing hate”

            truth is not hate ….. but since you REJECT truth ….. i can see why you see it that way ………. you really have no concept of true love other than “agree with me” …………

          • MCrow

            My concept of love is sacrifice of oneself for another. It’s a choice. But then, you don’t believe in free will, so what does it matter.

            Plenty of people disagree with me. If you want to believe that the universe hatched from an egg, feel free, but don’t tell me I’m going to suffer eternal damnation because I disagree with your dogma.

            And you need a question mark if you want to pose a question

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “My concept of love is sacrifice of oneself for another.”

            platitudes …………. and that is just another lie ……. you have shown time and time again ……. you have only your own self-centered desire to be seen before men as somehow loving …… and your desire is not the love of God …. but the love of other men …. and your desire for them to see you as somehow “vituous” ………. and that is why you do what you do …………………..

      • MCrow

        Further, you are all but admitting that you need to use these tactics. See the part about “religion giving up.”

        • Amos Moses – He>i

          you lost a long time ago when you rejected OBJECTIVE MORALITY …… dead horses do not need to be continually beaten ………….

          • MCrow

            If your morality were objective, we would not be having this discussion and you could do more than scream impotently at a screen

  • Gloria1960

    The persecution has increased also because of the apostasy of the churches. Vices and virtues?How terrible!!! Maybe she could have prevented a future school murder spree, and we certainly would not want that!!

    • MarkSebree

      What persecution? See my reply to Luminous, and see if you can answer the question asked.

    • Adam Valentine

      In what possible way could this have prevented a murder spree?

    • Samwise

      Having to follow the same rules as everyone else IS NOT persecution.

      Being told you cannot proselytize to a captive audience of other people’s kids IS NOT persecution.

    • Rookheight

      The article failed to mention that the “vices and virtues” poster was a bible verse, on a wall full of Christian-only propaganda. You’re falling for the author’s slant; read FFRF’s letter to get a fuller picture of what was really going on here, which was a crystal-clear state/church violation.

      • Texas Belle

        There is nothing in the Constitution about state/church violation.

        • Rookheight

          Actually there is, in the beginning of the First Amendment. The words are: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…”

          Jefferson, the author of the First Amendment, explained them as creating a wall of separation between church and state.

  • Guzzman

    There were several religious displays put up in these classrooms. Photos accompanying the complaint resemble those of a Sunday School. A few examples:

    – Latin cross hanging over a whiteboard
    – Poster promoting devotional Christian music
    – Poster reading “Blessed is the Nation Whose God is the Lord” (Psalm 33:12)
    – Poster listing “vices” and “virtues” extracted from Galatians 5:20-23

    Such religious messages are inappropriate in a public school. As the Supreme Court put it: “School sponsorship of a religious message is impermissible…” Santa Fe v. Doe.

  • You can be assured that if it was an Islam/Muslim display nothing would have been said.

    • Samwise

      Minneha Core Knowledge Elementary, August 2013, Wichita Kansas. – In a class studying world religions, during the section on Islam, a teacher put up a display on the 5 Pillars of Islam. This was a factual display directly related to course content and not intended to promote Islam.

      Parents demanded the display be taken down, and The Blaze and other evangelical spokesmen joined in. This received nationwide press and outrage.

      There are several other examples of parent protests because children were taught factual information about Islam in social studies world religion units. In other words, students were told “Muslims tend to believe X” but were not told “Muslim beliefs are true,” yet parents were outraged.

      I could not find one example of a Muslim teacher putting up verses from the Koran or promoting Muslim beliefs.

      It would seem your statement “You can be assured that if it was an Islam/Muslim display nothing would have been said.” is incorrect. Do you have the intrgrity to withdraw it?

      • Thanks for the history lesson but we are not talking about Minneha Core Knowledge Elementary, August 2013, Wichita Kansas are we.

        • Rookheight

          No, we’re not. We’re talking about one of the myriad examples of public school teachers promoting Christianity. That’s Samwise’s point—this doesn’t happen with Islam in the U.S. because people go ballistic if Islam even gets brought up in a World Religion class.

          Elementary school teachers putting up Quran verses, Islamic music, and other promotions of Islam—to be comparable to this case—simply doesn’t happen.

        • Rippie

          So, where is there a PUBLIC school classroom festooned with quotes from the Koran? Stop whingeing when you get caught out. Prove your point, if you have one that isn’t just a display of bigotry.

        • Samwise

          You said “nothing would have been said” about a Muslim display. You are incorrect.

          • Texas Belle

            You can’t disprove his statement.

          • Rookheight

            His argument is based on a false premise, which we’ve pointed out to him repeatedly and with no answer. We don’t need to “disprove” anything, since his statement is based purely on his imagination.

          • sandraleesmith46

            NOT by the same groups that pitch unholy fits at the least hint of anything Christian, and many things Jewish as well; they would have remained utterly silent; it would only be contested if parents did so.

          • Rookheight

            Google “Why doesn’t FFRF go after Islam?” and you’ll see plenty of examples of FFRF going after government promotions of non-Judeo-Christian religions, including Islam. There just aren’t nearly as many instances of the U.S. government promoting Islam compared to Christianity.

          • sandraleesmith46

            NOT true; first off, using GOOGLE as your search engine is a problem since they slant the responses to fit the leftist agenda ONLY. Second, IF FFRF was going after Islam it’d be a media riot and sensation the likes of which would be heard to the ends of the Earth. As for gov’t not promoting it; look closer at common core and what it promotes. That’s “gov’t promotion” of the worst sort! Then there are the clauses in obamacare that protect and promote it.

          • Rookheight

            Regardless of your preferred search engine, you should be able to find examples of FFRF handling state/church complaints involving Islam, as well as a clear explanation of why there are so many more examples of government actors endorsing Christianity, in case it’s not obvious on a bit of reflection. And no, the media didn’t flip out when they did go after Islam. Christian persecution sells much better in the media.

            Can you back up your claims with any examples? How does common core promote Islam in a way that’s not just explaining it? What protections does the ACA offer to Islam that it doesn’t offer to Christianity? Cite to the statutory code please, or else admit that you’re making claims with no basis in fact.

          • sandraleesmith46

            Islamic teachings are INCORPORATED directly into the lesson plans presented from the 5 pillars to sharia regulations, and the books the teachers are given to work from.
            Media didn’t “flip out” because they never went after them. And ACA allows it to be taught in schools, including having children recite the shahada and dress in their attire or visit mosques none of which corresponding lessons from Christianity are permitted. If you haven’t been paying attention, not my fault.

          • Rookheight

            I am paying attention, and you’re spouting nonsense with no citations. The ACA starts at 42 U.S.C. § 18001. Take a look and find me anything having to do with teaching Islam in public schools, or else admit that you’re just repeating talking points you heard from conspiracy theorists.

            Everything you’re saying is false, although I suspect you sincerely aren’t aware of that because you aren’t looking it up even though I’m literally telling you what to search for online to educate yourself. Do you not care to know what’s actually true?

    • Rookheight

      Nonsense. If this were an Islam/Muslim display, every Christian parent would have complained rather than the one vocal atheist parent. The display would not have lasted a day and the teacher probably would have been fired.

      • Read the article. It was the head of FFRF that complained and got it removed.

        • Rookheight

          Read the article more carefully. Rob Moore is the head of a local FFRF chapter, not FFRF, and he also has a child in the class.

          • And as such you can be assured that if it was an Islam/Muslim display nothing would have been said by him.

          • Rookheight

            I can’t speak for him, but I’ve never met an atheist who is any more okay with Islam being pushed on them than Christianity. That just doesn’t make any sense—of course they’ll object to any religious displays.

            But in the U.S., the rare government actors who try to promote Islam don’t get away with it because they’re part of a small minority, which was my point above. The Christian parents would take care of that before the one atheist parent even knew it was up.

          • Rippie

            Utter cack. You couldn’t argue your way out of a wet paper sack without a single actual statement of fact. Utter cack.

          • That is a lie. I personally know Rob Moore and he would have done the exact same thing no matter the religion. In fact, he is for teaching religion in school as long as it is a fair introduction to all the religions.

          • Would you please tell Mr. Moore to quit fighting against God?

          • He runs a podcast and YouTube channel called Atheist Underground.
            You are welcome to tell him yourself through those.

          • Progressive Republican

            Preventing the inherent unavoidable evil of theocracy is hardly ‘fighting against God’.

          • Because there is nothing worse that Christian jihadist bent on establishing a Christian Caliphate Theocracy…………SMH………..

          • Progressive Republican

            Coming up with that drivel which may or may not be intended as humorous and you’re shaking your head?

            lulz

          • Here is the humorous drivel in our short discourse together……”Preventing the inherent unavoidable evil of theocracy is hardly ‘fighting against God'”.

        • Rippie

          So what? He’s still RIGHT and you’re still WRONG.

          Watchdogs matter. Who is the one assigned to watch YOU?

        • Progressive Republican

          And…?

      • Bev Bennett

        (Tom Bennett posting).
        Not true, regardless of how many parents might have complained. Political Correctness and multi-culti sensitivity and “inclusiveness” rule our schools, teachers and boards of education. They would all be shamed, then sued, and you know it.

        • Rookheight

          It sounds like you’ve been convinced of something that just ain’t so.

          Find me one example of any government body in the country, including public schools, promoting Islam (not teaching ABOUT Islam, but promoting it) where the promotion wasn’t quickly shut down.

          I don’t think you’ll be able to, much less anything like what you described, where it was shut down and then the school was “shamed, then sued.” What would they even be sued for, if they’re complying with the Establishment Clause? This scenario would certainly fit the narrative you’re going for, but it’s completely at odds with reality.

        • Rippie

          Also patently untrue. Do you people even know anything that happens outside your disapproving ignorant mommy klatches?

    • Rippie

      Bulloney. Doesn’t happen. Your hole misses you.

    • Progressive Republican

      The FFRF has been very consistent on the matter.

      Furthermore, I have no doubt that your fellow ‘Christians’ would’ve been the first to complain.

  • slatyb

    Dr. Rush and Mr. Webster’s opinions are irrelevant. The only opinions that matter are those of the Supreme Court.

  • Harry Oh!

    America has become very confused about who they are and where they came from. Heck, lots of people don’t even know what gender they are. By the time this experiment has run it’s course, it will be a very different place, and not a good one either.

    • Adam Valentine

      You seem to be the confused one

  • Rookheight

    I love how those last two paragraphs are always tacked on to articles about state/church separation, presumably to make sure that people who wrongly think the U.S. is a Christian nation can stay comfortable in their ignorance.

  • Jeff Chapman

    “This religious display is particularly inappropriate given that about 38% of Americans born after 1987 are not religious,” it asserted.”
    Does that mean that 62% are?
    And wouldn’t that be a majority?

    • Rookheight

      The Bill of Rights, including the Establishment Clause, exist specifically to remove certain topics from popular vote. That’s why they’re called “fundamental rights.”

  • Rippie

    Yep, that’s illegal.

    And it doesn’t say “In Jesus We Trust,” just “In God We Trust,” and that is illegal unless it’s a private religious school.

    And that is how it should be.

    Kids go to church and Sunday School, Saturday Shul, whatever, for religious instruction, maybe a weeknight Bible or whatever scripture Study, and everyone is respected, educated and stays out of each other business.

    If only Christians could learn to do that, as Jesus TOLD Jews in His new version of the Faith to do!

  • sandraleesmith46

    EITHER they go after ALL religionsn including HUMANISM and it’s step child evolution, or they LEAVE EVERYONE alone and go back to their corner!

  • Progressive Republican

    The FFRF letter makes a valid point. With an ever increasing proportion of non-believers, any religious display on government property becomes increasingly inappropriate. Such displays belong on private property.

    • Chet

      Nothing “progressive” about such opine, dude…

      • Progressive Republican

        So separation of church and state is a conservative ideal?

        Or is this supposed to be humor?

  • James C. Robinson (III)

    Hi, Heather Clark! May our Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth forgive & have mercy on that Freedom From Religion Foundation’s atheistic local chapter president Rob Moore who gave a foolish complaint that led a number of Christian displays to be removed from his son’s Pleasant Prairie Elementary School classroom in Kenosha, Wisconsin!

  • Sunisyde

    I see, so its okay for the American Communists to aggressively push their filthy immoral lifestyle on the rest of us but if a Christian puts up any signs, that’s a violation of the Constitution..??? They need to go to Washington and take a good look at the WH and some of the other Government building’s that have ‘Moses’ or the Ten Commandments and other religious artifacts adhered to these building’s especially the White House!

    • Samwise

      Which buildings? Most are quite plain.

      The exception is the Supreme Court buliding which is at the opposite extreme and covered with dozens of examples of laws and law givers. Moses and the 10 Commandments are represented, but no more prominent than Hammurabi.

  • rono44o

    FFRF stated “The district violates the Constitution when it allows its schools to display religious symbols or messages.” I’m wondering what Constitution is here referred to. The First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution places restrictions/limitations on what Congress can/cannot do, not on what a classroom teacher does. Of course, FFRF will appeal to various court cases, but I’m just referring to the simple words of the Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof….”

    • Take a look at history. The 14th Amendment’s Equal Protection Clause makes the 1st Amendment applicable to the States. That’s the way the courts see it. The intent of the Establishment Clause is spelled up in Jefferson, “A Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom.” You can find it at Founders Online. It’s a short read. Let me know if you do not agree with Jefferson and the courts.

  • The FFRF is correct. The 1st Amendment is made applicable to the States by the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment.

    Folks, ONLY the parents of children have the right to teach their children what to believe in terms of religion, NOT government agents. That, of course, includes teachers.

    It is amazing that a person can go through college and graduate without ever having become well acquainted with the Constitution. I can well understand (but I don’t approve) high school students graduating without even one class on the Constitution. Many (most?) public schools do not cover the document because civics is either not taught or is only an elective. It was an elective in my high school.

    Conservative politicians generally do not want a well educated public because it would enable most voters to discern fallacious and deceitful arguments in the rhetoric of self-serving politicians.

    • Chet

      Even more amazing is the fallacious belief that man can control his own destiny and can somehow advance through college without any idea whatsoever what saith the Lord. After all, it is Him, with whom we all have to do, sooner or later. Accountability and judgment are real and time is running out for all men day by day…

      • An interesting comment. On the surface, it sounds good, but if a person cannot control her own destiny–in terms of decisions to actions–then those actions are being controlled externally. I suppose you are saying that the elusive, reclusive denizen of sin, Lucifer, is controlling it? So, humans do not have control over their actions–it’s either the equally elusive, reclusive, Christian god or Old Scratch?

        What about the billions of humans who were never taught about your god, but taught about their own society’s’ elusive, seclusive god(s) and were good and faithful servants to It or Them? To Hell with them even if they were stalwarts of honesty and integrity doing only good to others in their lives? Would they to to Hell while millions of Christians who were not nearly as good go to Heaven? That is a “loving” god?

        I do wish there was some way to penetrate the fundamentalists’ Walls of Dogma and squirt in even a molecule of objective reasoning. But all my attempts simply bounce right off–completely ignored.

        My analysis: Fundamentalists of all exclusive, doctrinal religions are wasting their entire lives preparing to die because they believe their god(s) would rather be exalted incessantly (like any human tyrant) rather than have humans strive to do good to all people no matter what they believe.

        I sincerely wish for them to use the cognitive powers that they believe their god(s) gave them such that they do good to other people simply because it is a good thing to do and not because of their belief that they will be rewarded after death for indulging an omnipotent, angry narcissist who insists on being loved while It has no love to give.

        • Chet

          Hello again, Hobbs: Man, the more you post the more I fail to understand how an otherwise intelligent gentleman can be so terribly far off-base when it comes to matters spiritual and eternal. Para 4: God Almighty so loves this sinful world that He GAVE his only begotten Son. You enjoy attempting to validate faiths beyond that of Judeao/Christian believers; can you advise where any other object of man’s worship has done anything similar?

          Para 3: It wasn’t till the merciful Lord Jesus Christ saved me and patiently worked within me to accomplish his good purpose and will that I finally began to enjoy life beyond drunkeness, adultery and fornication et al. Being American and thus blessed at birth via God of our forefathers, I enjoy freedom unheralded. The nation with much Holy Bible has much freedom, little Holy Bible, little freedom, no Holy Bible, no freedom. Note* Neither myself nor any other believer will ever attain sinless perfection in and of our own strength, or even come close to such. We look to the finished work of Christ on the Cross of Calvary as that which fully satisfies God’s perfect Holiness in our stead. And we know He lives evermore even as He makes intercession for His own. Meanwhile, He is very good to the lost, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance and faith in Christ, alone, as one’s own personal Lord and Saviour.

          Para 2: You speak consistently about Christians and their own personal “good efforts”. Good efforts are wonderful and expected of the child of God upon on’e receiving Christ. However, “But after the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost”; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour” Titus 3: 4-6, Holy Bible… If you, Hobbs, spy one who calls himself Christian and attempts to justify his salvation via his supposed good works, the man/woman is deceived by their own heart as salvation is a free gift via faith in the finished work of Christ on Calvary. Then, he/she is to show his faith via his works in whatever endeavor such may be so applicable. And you are surely smart enough to identify Christian entities doing much work in the name of Christ in meeting man’s diverse needs, the first of such being spiritual then physical…

          Para 1: Yes, in one’s lost state, the Devil is daddy and the works of the Devil mankind does, (many if not most, unknowingly) and much enjoyed them, or we believe. Pleasing the flesh with its diverse desires is paramount, with spiritual needs being ignored altogether.

          Thanks for this further opportunity to share God’s love for you, Hobbs…

          • I fail to understand how an otherwise intelligent gentleman can be so terribly far off-base when it comes to matters spiritual and eternal. Para 4: God Almighty so loves this sinful world that He GAVE his only begotten Son.

            Hah! First sentence: It is a matter of objective evidence (science) as opposed to subjective belief (religion) taught to most people from childhood.

            Second sentence: I think you mean that your god had HIMSELF whacked. Remember, Jesus was supposed to be your god on Earth. If Jesus was a son of a god, then your belief is not monotheism. And, yes, I know about the “godhead” and the “Half man-half god” arguments.

            These are simply attempts to justify a blatant contradiction. I was once told by a true believer that logic has no relevance to the Christian god because “he” can do anything–even make both sides of a contradiction true. So, it’s either one god or three in the case of Christianity. I understand, as well, that given a few minutes, you can find another path to explain the inexplicable.

            You enjoy attempting to validate faiths beyond that of Judeao/Christian believers; can you advise where any other object of man’s worship has done anything similar?

            Dick Cheney, with his gulag archipelago of black camp torture sites subjected even innocent people to worse torture than to which your god subjected himself.”

          • Chet

            In the end, neither Mr. Cheney’s actions (whatever they be) nor anyone else’s will be of any relevance to your own judgment and eternal abode. In the case of one being tortured, however manner and at whomever’s hands, you can bet the victim has no choice in the matter nor any opportunity to defend himself. Else, one would not undergo torture. In the case of the Lord Jesus Christ, He could have called 10,000 angels to destroy the world and set him free but he elected to lay down his life for all us sinners. Why is that so hard for you to grasp this in your supposedly enlightened intellectual capability even if you continue to refuse his offer of mercy? Hobbs, you again failed miserably in disclosing some other object of man’s belief, any of such, that did for his/her subjects what God Almighty of this universe did in offering His only begotten Son on man’s behalf. And in Christ’s desire to go to the Cross…

          • [Hobbes], you again failed miserably in disclosing some other object of man’s belief, any of such, that did for his/her subjects what God Almighty of this universe did in offering His only begotten Son on man’s behalf. And in Christ’s desire to go to the Cross…

            What I failed at was thinking you would recall and understand the argument I gave and the arguments I’ve been making.

            You give no OBJECTIVE evidence and neither can anyone of any other religion. But, as I said, no matter what argument I present you will either ignore it or simply think up some way to get around it. When a sincere belief is subjective and the mind is closed to all objective arguments and evidence to the contrary, it is a sad affair indeed.

            Stick with your beliefs. Be happy with them. Completely disregard the Bible passages to which you don’t agree and ignore the contradictions. I’ll stick to my objective evidence and Reason.

            Be well, my friend.

          • Chet

            You too, Sir…

  • Chet

    Why in the world are Christians and Jews so terrified of FFRF? They are not in control of God’s own… Fear them not who have the power to kill the body but cannot harm the soul… Dare to be a Daniel and see how the Almighty will work instead of automatically buckling at the knees in the face of godless, anti Christ leftist adversity only to drop and roll over… Stand tall ye Soldiers of the Cross.