Milwaukee Officials Vote to Ban Psychological Counseling for Minors Struggling With Homosexuality, Gender Dysphoria

Photo Credit: Fox6 News/Screenshot

MILWAUKEE, Wisc. — Officials in Milwaukee, Wisconsin have voted to ban what is called “conversion therapy” for minors struggling with homosexuality or gender dysphoria.

The passed ordinance claims that “being lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender is part of the natural spectrum of human identity and is not a disease, disorder, or illness.” It bans any practice, including psychological counseling, that would seek to help youth resist homomosexual temptations or assist those who struggle with desires to present themselves as the opposite sex.

However, the measure permits counseling that would offer “acceptance” and “support” of homosexuality, and would not criminalize anyone who “provides assistance to a person undergoing gender transition.”

Violators may be charged up to $1000 for each instance.

Read the ordinance in full here.

The proposal had been met with opposition from Christians in the city, who said that it was wrong to ban youth from obtaining help if they desire it.

“The city is telling me, as a father or grandfather, that I cannot send my children and pay a therapist. This city is telling me I’m not allowed to do that. … That’s an extension of government and it’s wrong,” resident Tony Coupee told Fox6 News.

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Some stood praying while the deliberations took place on Tuesday during the Common Council meeting, and some made declarations such as “sin is sin.”

Supporters of the measure held rainbow flags or signs such as “Show your love through acceptance.” Some of those present in support of the ordinance were clergy members.

“I think God wants us to be close to God and not be separated, not be told God doesn’t love us as we are, as God made us,” Jennifer Nordstrom of the First Unitarian Society of Milwaukee told reporters.

It is unclear how Nordstrom’s remarks would pertain to gender dysphoria.

“If you are paying for this service and your child leaves wanting to kill themselves or has killed themselves, then we, as Christians, have not done our jobs,” also contended Alderwoman Chantia Lewis.

Some present were concerned that the ordinance would affect pastors who counsel those in their congregation who come to them needing help in their struggle with sin. The council stated that churches would not be affected by the restriction, only therapists and counselors who offer a fee for assistance.

“If a young person decides to go seek spiritual counseling from their faith leader, that’s fine under this ordinance,” Alderman Cavalier Johnson stated. “This is not an attack on [pastors]. This is not an attack on their liberty. This is not an attack on their ability to preach.”

Only two aldermen voted against the proposal, and one member abstained from voting at all.

“I certainly respect the passion on both sides of this issue, but I will say this. The testimony that we received previously simply did not make a case in my mind that this problem even exists,” said Alderman Robert Donovan, according to the Associated Press.

The measure passed with a vote of 12-2, and Mayor Tom Barrett is expected to sign the ordinance on April 7.

Christians present expressed disappointment over the outcome.

“God’s going to judge sinners!” Albert Herron, 62, of Racine declared. “Corrupt, evil, wicked generation.”

As previously reported, Christians believe that homosexuality—just like any inclination that is contrary to the law of God—is a part of the Adamic sin nature that must be regenerated by the second birth, as Jesus outlined in John 3:5-7, “Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.”

Ephesians 2:1-3 also declares of the regeneration that takes place in those who are born anew by the Holy Spirit: “And you hath He quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins, wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience, among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.”

2 Corinthians 5:15-17 consequently teaches: “He died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto Him which died for them, and rose again. … Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”


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  • Reason2012

    If a kid wants help with addiction of any kind, it would be evil to make it illegal for that kid to get help. It would also prove they want kids to succumb to the bondage of addiction.

    If a kid wants help fighting against his desire for porn, it would be evil to make it illegal for that kid to get help. It would also prove they want kids to succumb to the bondage of being addicted to porn.

    If a kid wants help from the belief that he’s not really the gender basic biology proves he is, it would be evil to make it illegal for that kid to get help. It hence proves they want kids to succumb to the indoctrination of homosexuality and transgenderism being genetic and proves they are out to victimize your kids and grandkids.

    These anti-America pro-perversion fascists need to be voted out of office for trying to help make sure as many kids as possible fall for their perversion indoctrination and are far less likely to get help if they want such help.

    There are many testimonies from those who used to believe the lie they were “born” gay or transgender, which exposes these officials’ lie that it’s genetic.

    In the name of Jesus Christ, I pray that God rebukes this evil attempt to pervert the minds of children and rebuke those that try to make it happen.

  • Michael C

    As has been made abundantly clear throughout this article, the practice of attempting to turn a gay person straight or a trans person cis is a religious pursuit.

    Milwaukee has done nothing to infringe upon this religious practice.

    Governments do have the ability, however, to regulate medical and commercial practices. “Conversion therapy” as a medical practice is not supported by the medical profession. It’s simply not medicine. Also, for businesses to make offers to provide certain services in exchange for money, they must be able to actually provide those services. If they cannot show that they’ve ever been successful in actually providing a service, they really shouldn’t be offering it. “Conversion therapy” can (and has been) considered a fraudulent business practice for this very reason.

    • cadcoke5

      Michael C said, ” the practice of attempting to turn a gay person straight or a trans person is is a religious pursuit….. Milwaukee has done nothing to infringe upon this religious practice.”

      And while there is certainly a lot of clergy who can counsel at the level of a professional, there are also professional counselors who are Christians. They don’t want to be forced to behave like they are not Christians, when they work. This is bold-faced religious discrimination.

      It would be like the same board passing a rule saying that all professional counselors must never say the Bible is not true. Even if such an ordnance does not prohibit an atheist preacher from saying so, t certainly infringes upon the atheist’s religious liberty.

      • Michael C

        …there are also professional counselors who are Christians. They don’t want to be forced to behave like they are not Christians, when they work.

        There are lots of professional doctors who believe that there are magical religious rituals/incantations that can be used to cure illnesses. It’s seriously not uncommon at all. While practicing their profession, however, they must adhere to professional standards and abide by government regulations.

        Faith healing is what they do at church and licensed, regulated, professional medicine is what they do at work.

        This is bold-faced religious discrimination.

        Expecting licensed professionals to avoid practicing their religion on patients can, in no way, be considered illegal religious discrimination.

        It would be like the same board passing a rule saying that all professional counselors must never say the Bible is not true.

        Professional counselors are expected to respect their clients’ religious beliefs. Were you not aware of this?

        • Amos Moses – He>i

          “Professional counselors are expected to respect their clients’ religious beliefs. Were you not aware of this?”

          and if they do not find the recommendation of the counselor adequate …… they can find someone else ……….. its called the free market ….. and government has no business in it …….

          • Michael C

            I agree with the first part of your statement but the government does, in fact, have business in regulating medicine and business practices.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Nope …. not to the point of making MEDICAL decisions as to treatment ….. it is the PATIENTS duty …..

          • Michael C

            Nope …. not to the point of making MEDICAL decisions as to treatment ….. it is the PATIENTS duty …..

            Mmmhmm, yep. Patients tell doctors how to doctor. That’s why my doctor lets me write my own prescriptions.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            GOVERNMENT has no role in the PRIVATE dispensing of MEDICAL advice or TREATMENT …. and if you have such a POOR relationship with your doctor ….. that is YOUR issue ….. not anyone elses …….. FYI …. TALK THERAPY …. does not require a prescription so your point is no point at all ……….. and there is no reason to void what is being discussed between a counselor and a patient just because you do not like what might be said and cut down on your “dating pool” ………..

          • Michael C

            GOVERNMENT has no role in the PRIVATE dispensing of MEDICAL advice or TREATMENT ….

            Um, okay. But you realize that the medical profession has always been regulated by the government, right?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Government PAID FOR has …..

          • MCrow

            Actually, this is literally part of the government’s duty: ensuring that there are not abusive practices in medicine. The FDA exists in part to ensure drugs which are dispensed are not tainted or unsafe. Various regulations on what is and isn’t allowed in medical practice exist to ensure doctors are not using harmful methods. And, in the case of therapy, there are regulations to ensure that psychological manipulation and abuse are illegal

        • cadcoke5

          Psychology is not nearly as nailed-down as the physical medical stuff is. But, if you want evidence that does not refer to the bible, You also have a much higher percentage of people committing suicide, who say they are trans-gendered or homosexual. And this is true even in parts of the world where such things are socially accepted. And you also see people abandoning trans-genderism, and homosexuality. What is the basis for saying such things cannot be considered by professional counselors?.

          “Expecting licensed professionals to avoid practicing their religion on patients can, in no way, be considered illegal religious discrimination.”

          Must any practicing professional be at least a “practical atheist”? (to use the term Issac Asimov used to describe himself) if not an actual atheist? How does that not discriminate against anyone who is not atheistic in their practice?

          “Professional counselors are expected to respect their clients’ religious beliefs”

          That is, unless the patient is a Christian, and wanting help with homosexuality or wanting to be a different sex. Then, you feel their faith must be ignored by the professional, or at least reject them as a patient?

          • Michael C

            What is the basis for saying such things cannot be considered by professional counselors?.

            I don’t know. I never made the claims you’re supposedly arguing against. I think they call that a strawman argument.

            Must any practicing professional be at least a “practical atheist”? (to use the term Issac Asimov used to describe himself) if not an actual atheist?

            No.

            How does that not discriminate against anyone who is not atheistic in their practice?

            Medicine/science is not the study of the supernatural. Anyone, regardless of their supernatural beliefs, can study and practice science/medicine. I’ll repeat that. Anyone, regardless of their supernatural beliefs, can study and practice medicine (which is a different subject than the supernatural).

            That is, unless the patient is a Christian, and wanting help with homosexuality or wanting to be a different sex. Then, you feel their faith must be ignored by the professional, or at least reject them as a patient?

            I don’t believe I ever said that. If a patient struggles with conflicting influences in their life and seeks professional help to cope with this internal dissonance, a licensed therapist is obligated to help them.

            However, if a patient asks a medical professional for a service or solution not available to the medical practice, I don’t know what you expect them to do. Let’s imagine a patient asks a doctor for a cure for diabetes. Is the doctor obligated to lie to the patient, give them a vial of pills and tell them that they’ll totally be cured?

            …or does a doctor look to science to determine that while there may not be a cure for diabetes, there are ways of living with diabetes while remaining healthy?

            You seem to be saying that if a patient wants to be cured of diabetes, a doctor must pretend that they have the power to take care of that for them. That’s silly. It’s silly. I’m sorry, but it’s ridiculous.

          • cadcoke5

            What is the science that proves a male is actually a female if they feel female? Why does those same sort of feelings not apply, if someone feels they are fat, even if they are underweight? Should a counselor be prohibited from trying to convert that person into thinking they are underweight?

            How about the science that shows that most minors who struggle with sexual identity settle on their actual gender as an adult? Why does that not count?

            No, this new ordinance is not based on science. It is based on a political agenda, that goes against actual facts that have been understood throughout human history.

          • Michael C

            I’m not familiar with a single study that has shown that gay people can and do become heterosexual through any form of therapy.

            Sure there are people who claim to have changed. For a matter like this (concerning a scientific claim), I see no reason the trust people at their word. People lie. People in the “ex-gay” community have a history of lying in high numbers.

            If a “therapist” claims that they can turn a gay person straight, they should have proof.

          • Julie

            Your initial problem is that you are assuming people are “born gay” rather than it being an aberration caused by weak/absent father, abuse, or early homosexual imprinting.

            Homosexual describes an action; it’s a practice. A person engages in homosexual intercourse or heterosexual intercourse (or no intercourse at all). While the same-sex attraction may always be there (due to the factors above), the ACTION can and does change.

    • EJ Lombard

      Even for those who do not want the desires it is also a religious pursuit and they deserve to have that made available to them from licensed professionals. And it is very much medical (but you’re probably not updated with new developments as it appears) But surveys have revealed that most Same-sex attracted (SSA) persons have these desires have been sexually abused, exposed to pornography, family dynamics that the person as an adolescent has mis-perceived or have been heavily rejected by peers and/or bullied. Bottom-line, it’s very medical if you do proper research.

      • Michael C

        Even for those who do not want the desires it is also a religious pursuit and they deserve to have that made available to them from licensed professionals.

        Licensed medical professionals do not offer religious practices. Not at work, anyway.

        And it is very much medical (but you’re probably not updated with new developments as it appears)

        Medicine is science. The scientific community is swayed by evidence. If there have been any new scientific discoveries since Nicolosi’s death, I’d love to read about them.

        …surveys have revealed that most Same-sex attracted (SSA) persons have these desires have been sexually abused, exposed to pornography, family dynamics that the person as an adolescent has mis-perceived or have been heavily rejected by peers and/or bullied.

        I’d also love to read more about these “surveys.” I fall in to none of those categories.

        Bottom-line, it’s very medical if you do proper research.

        Can you cite one study that has proven that talk therapy can convert a gay person to being straight?

      • Quince

        That is not true. There is no evidence that family dynamics or life experiences make one gay.

  • Redboyds

    In other words, parents: He is not your child, he belongs to the state. You are nothing but the child’s ATM, cook, and chauffeur.

    • Clive Johnson

      I think more that this decision is something that enhances the rights of children. Children also have freedom of conscience and all too often their Christian parents use coercive and punitive methods to force them to conform to their wishes. This decision puts more power in the hands of children.

      • Redboyds

        If children had control over their own lives, they would eat cake and ice cream all day and probably kill each other.

        Children are not adults. Adults are adults. The world would be a disgusting and scary place if the children ran it.

        Read the novel Lord of the Flies. The author had a very Christian view of the true nature of children.

        • Clive Johnson

          No one is advocating for children to have complete control–you’re making a straw man out of my comment.

    • james blue

      I get what you are trying to say, but do you think there is any time the state should have a say in what you can and cannot do with your children?

      For example praying over a sick child instead of seeking medical attention?

  • robert boe

    The kids are allowed to have pastoral help.. Check out lighthouse youth centers in Milwaukee. what a great place for the kids of Milwaukee . its easy to find on the web.

  • EJ Lombard

    They have no right to take therapy away from those who consent and seek it.

    • Quince

      If the therapy is both ineffective and harmful, licensed doctors and therapists, regulations can certainly be established to forbid doctors from offering it.

      There are people who believe rat urine injections cure all sorts of conditions. This does not mean a licensed doctor could offer rat urine injections to cure a teenager’s acne.

      • EJ Lombard

        They do not use rat-urine to cure homosexuality or boiled cabbage-juice – I agree with that. But licensed therapists should be permitted to offer the service. The thing is that the LGBT have been demonizing all change-therapy. unfortunately you cannot separate unwanted desires form religion because most who do not want to be gay is because they do not want to sin and they want a better life.

        • james blue

          Do you believe this therapy “cures” people of being gay or just helps them resist temptation, remain celibate?

          • EJ Lombard

            I think both, some have to resist and other are completely delivered from the temptation.

          • james blue

            Thank you for the response.

            Here’s how I see it. Firstly where I’m “coming from”

            I am heterosexual. I didn’t choose to be heterosexual, I just am. I couldn’t be talked into being anything other than heterosexual. I could not be ‘cured” of being heterosexual. I have no interest in any other women than my wife of four and and a half decades, but she is a female and I cannot be “cured’ of being attracted to her. If I lost her I would still be heterosexual regardless of the fact that NO woman could replace her and I can honestly say I would live the remainder of my life alone in that department.

            So if I lost my wife I would be celibate and still heterosexual.

            Given that I can’t see how a gay person could be “cured”. He may become celibate, but he’d still be gay. So I do not believe anyone can be “cured” of being gay.

          • Christ Jesus can cure the sin addictions of any kind for anyone.

          • james blue

            Addicts are still addicts even if they overcome the urge to feed their addiction. An alcoholic will always be an alcoholic regardless of how many years he remains dry.

            You will still be heterosexual (please forgive the assumption) if you fight off your attractions to women and become celibate.

          • No disrespect meant but until you have walked in those shoes you have no idea what you are talking about.

          • james blue

            Does that apply to your opinions on gay conversion therapy?

          • No matter what the sin addiction is, it can only be permanently overcome by and through Christ Jesus.
            —————-
            2 Corinthians 5:17 New King James Version (NKJV)
            17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

          • james blue

            Didn’t ask one thing about that.

            You said “Until you have walked in those shoes you have no idea what you are talking about.”

            So I ask again– Does that apply to your opinions on gay conversion therapy?

          • I have never been through any kind of secular therapy except for AA & NA and neither one worked. I was only set free when I became born again in Christ Jesus.

          • james blue

            And can you take a drink now without any issues? Not do you, can you.

          • Yes I can and occasionally do.

          • james blue

            So you haven’t turned your back on it.

          • What I have turned my back on and have been delivered and cured from is my 20 yrs of being a drunk, a drug addict and my addiction to sexual immorality. I was set free from all of this in 1997 by Christ Jesus through being born again as He tells us in John 3.

          • james blue

            All you are saying there is you suppressed the symptom, not the disease.

            Regardless thank the Lord for that, I am genuinely happy you are out of the hole.

          • I did not suppress anything. I have been cured and forgiven by God through His son Christ Jesus.

          • james blue

            But you said you still take the occasional drink.

          • Yes I do and I still take prescription pain meds when needed for a legit reason. None of that negates the fact that Christ Jesus cured me of my addictions.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I have never been through any kind of secular therapy except for AA & NA

            I’ve been to AA; it’s not “secular therapy”. They try to say it is, but it ain’t.

          • The way I saw it…..it was secular. Only when I came to the Cross and cried out to Jesus did the power of God begin His work in me.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Well, as soon as they get to step #2, they’re talking about “a power greater than ourselves”. There’s a chapter in the Big Book entitled “We Agnostics” that basically says you can’t be one and recover, and also speaks of people as “thinking they were agnostics or atheists”. That doesn’t sound “secular” to me.

          • I found that the reference to a “higher power/power greater than ourselves” to be too vague. Only when I acknowledged Christ Jesus and came to Him did my redemption and recovery begin.

          • Tristan Fry

            Homosexuality isn’t a sin addiction. It’s a natural innate attraction like heterosexuality.

          • God plainly said it is a sin. God does not create sin nor tempt anyone to sin therefore no one is born that way. As with all sin only Christ Jesus is the answer and the cure.

          • Tristan Fry

            God didn’t plainly say anything of the kind. Homosexuality isn’t even mentioned. And science knows a LOT about it now which they didn’t in those days.

          • God said same sex sex aka homosexuality is a sin.

          • Tristan Fry

            He didn’t.

          • Then what did God say about men having sex with men and women having sex with women?

          • Tristan Fry

            In what context? For purposes of prostitution, or committed monogamous relationships?

          • Does not matter for there is no context wherein God approves of it and He always condemns it.

          • Tristan Fry

            There ALWAYS needs to be context.

          • There is no context wherein God approves of same sex sex aka homosexuality.

          • Tristan Fry

            You cannot know that, because what is mentioned is ambiguous at best and subject to debate.

          • I do know that because I have been a child of God for 20 yrs now and have studied His Word longer than that. If you do not believe what I have told you, you are welcome to prove me wrong.

          • Tristan Fry

            It isn’t just me, I know many Christians who have been children of God at least as long as yourself who say you are wrong.

          • It does not work that way. When you become a Christian you have God’s Holy Spirit inside of you and He leads to us to His Truth. He does not lie. He is eternal and never changing. He will never allow one of His to believe the lies of Satan such as you are and as I used to be.

        • Quince

          These kids may not want to be gay.

          I’m sure kids with diabetes don’t want to be diabetic.

          Counselors can help a child figure out how to cope with the reality they’ve got. But therapists cannot pressure a child that they should just stop being diabetic or even tell them that it is possible. The evidence shows that a person cannot will themselves to make their pancreas produce insulin.
          These promises and pressures could lead to harm.

          Likewise, if a child is gay, Counselors can help the child figure out how to cope with that reality. But therapists cannot pressure a child that they should just stop being gay or even tell them that it is possible. The evidence shows that a person cannot will themselves to stop being gay. These promises and pressures could lead to harm.

      • Amos Moses – He>i

        “If the therapy is both ineffective and harmful”

        NO EVIDENCE that any TALK THERAPY is harmful …….. to a child or anyone else …..

      • EJ Lombard

        Somebody told you a lie about conversion therapy and you believed it.

    • Tangent002 ✓

      The ordinance only applies to minors. Adults are still free to engage in whatever quackery they choose.

      • EJ Lombard

        But taking that right away from minors who might have been abused sexually is torture and you’re exposing the minor to sexual perversity instead of helping them heal from being molested. Being molested messes with your psyche and to refuse a minor help is cruel and sick.

        • Michael C

          Whoah, whoah, whoah whoah. Absolutely nothing about banning conversion therapy for minors prevents them from seeking or receiving treatment from a licensed professional for the damage caused by sexual abuse. Absolutely nothing prevent kids from getting help.

          Conversion therapy is the attempt to change a person’s sexual orientation. Until you can prove that this practice is actually possible (as well as being safe and healthy), you will continue to see more regulation on the practice throughout the country.

          • Conversion therapy is 100% safe and reliable with Christ Jesus. Give your life and everything in it to Him and He will do the rest.

          • IzTheBiz

            Your opinion do not align with scripture and are of no consequence to truth. There is only one truth, that is that which is expressed in God’s word, not the perverted and darkened minds of unregenerate sinners, which you so clearly express. So if you don’t want to engage with truth, find another site to troll. You are not welcome here!

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            Amen.

          • EJ Lombard

            Most minors are experiencing SSA because of sexual abuse or exposure to pornography and homosexual movies – even in cartoons these days… Look up Floyd Godfrey a licensed therapist that counseled over 900 patients – his findings are reliable and he himself came out of SSA – it works if you’re willing to practice self-control. No one can achieve anything in life without some form of commitment and dedication.

          • Michael C

            If you had data to support your claims that abuse and pornographic cartoons turns kids gay, we wouldn’t be having this conversation right now. I’m sorry you’ve been so mislead.

            I just looked up your Narth guy, Godfrey, and read a little about him. Interestingly, he admits that he did not become straight, he has to constantly work at it (hint, that’s not straight).

            …and he’s provided no proof that anyone with whom he’s worked has ever become straight, either.

          • EJ Lombard

            Check out a documentary (about 30mins.) on You Tube called Understanding Same sex attractions. There are many research papers and testimonies that prove it. What you say about Godfrey is untrue, and you’re not giving the whole story.

          • EJ Lombard

            And i can easily prove that the cartoons are confusing kids, just look at the rates of teens now want to be transgender – not because they are confused but because they are being told by teachers that they cannot trust their biological anatomy and it can change – that’s not science that’s buying into a Fad.

          • Tristan Fry

            Excuse me, a FAD? You think changing your gender is a stylish and fashionable thing to do? Really?

          • EJ Lombard

            To be clear it is being portrayed that way but I think it’s horrible and it lies to persons who are gender dysphoric – it makes them believe that they can really be the opposite sex but they are really just impersonators. Just look what Walt Heyer went through – this very reason is why John Hopkins stopped their practice when they were once pioneers of sex-change surgery.

          • Tristan Fry

            I have a very simple test I do to see if people are transgendered. I ask them. If they say they are, I take them at their word.

          • EJ Lombard

            Yes, you take them at their word that they are mentally distressed and Gender Dysphoric – What is next Tristan? that we say Pedophilia is a sexual orientation? That people can pretend to be a 12-year old stuck in a 52-year old’s body? or a dragon stuck in a human body? We should be rational and definitely sympathize with people who believe they are something other than what reality confirms they are, but certainly not entertain it – it’s not kind to the mentally distressed – especially not when media uses them to get ratings or money-driven organisations with agenda’s use them to push perversion onto children in the class rooms to confuse them about their biological affairs.

      • IzTheBiz

        Your opinions do not align with scripture and are of no consequence to truth. There is only one truth, that is that which is expressed in God’s word, not the perverted and darkened minds of unregenerate sinners, which you so clearly express. So if you don’t want to engage with truth, find another site to troll. You are not welcome here!

  • Quince

    Michael C used a great analogy. I am going to repeat it for emphasis.

    Assume a child has Type I diabetes. A therapist could work with the child on living with the condition. A therapist could work with the child if she struggles with what having an incurable condition means to her faith in god. But the therapist could not attempt to cure Type I diabetes because Type I diabetes has no cure. If the parents said “we heard of someone who was cured of Type I diabetes with this special therapy” a competent, licensed therapist would explain that that therapy is both dangerous and ineffective.

    People who are gay do not change. Exodus International made lots of money and shared lots of first hand accounts of people who were “cured.” In the end, they closed admitting their therapy was totally ineffective and sometimes harmful.

    The evidence shows conversion therapy 1. Does not and cannot change sexual orientation and 2. Increases the risk of suicide and self harm.

    • Amos Moses – He>i

      boloney …. there is no conflation between a MEDICAL condition and treatment and TALK THERAPY ………..

      • Quince

        Conversion therapy is proven to be harmful. In the same way, attempts in prior decades to turn left handed children into right handed children caused emotional damage.

        And though it’s thankfully less common now, there are still therapists who use pain and nausea inducing drugs to try to change a person’s sexual feelings. That qualifies as torture.

        Applying pressure and guilt on a young person, and telling them they should change something that cannot be changed is emotionally abusive and increases the risk of self harm and suicide attempts. There is evidence supporting the fact that this type of therapy causes harm and no evidence at all that it is effective.

        It would make as much sense – and cause as much harm – to send a child to therapy to convince them to have blue eyes rather than brown. Or to stop being diabetic. Applying guilt over something that is out of a person’s control is cruel.

        • Amos Moses – He>i

          “Conversion therapy is proven to be harmful.”

          BULLROAR …….. talking is not “harmful” …… you are nat talking about CONVERSION …… you are talking about AVERSION ……. FAIL …….

          • james blue

            talking is not “harmful”

            Depends on the words and the mind those words are aimed at.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            and if they do not like the words ….. they can QUIT …… no one is forcing them to be there …… unless it is the parents …… and they have the RIGHT to seek treatment they deem needed …… the child does not get to decide ……….. and even then the child can refuse to participate ………

          • james blue

            no one is forcing them to be there …… unless it is the parents

            Do you ever read what you write before clicking the post button?

            unless it is the parents …… and they have the RIGHT to seek treatment they deem needed

            Is that absolute?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “Should the state accept a parent deciding to pray over a sick child instead of seeking medical attention?”

            to quote …… “Do you ever read what you write before clicking the post button?” …..

          • Tangent002 ✓

            Talking causes no physical injury, but that doesn’t mean it can’t cause psychological harm.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            they are ALREADY “psychologically” harmed ….. that is why they are there ….. DUH …..

  • Lydia Church

    The best conversion therapy is offered by Jesus; it’s called Salvation!
    Homosexuality is a sin and He saves from it.
    Just bring them to Him!
    We don’t love or accept sin, and neither does Jesus.
    We were born sinners, God did not make us ‘that way.’
    But each sin is a choice.
    Our only message is: Repent!

  • Vince

    Banning things deprives people of choices.
    I thought progressives were “pro-choice.” They sure do love to take away people’s choices.