ACLU, Lambda Legal Sue Ohio to Obtain Birth Certificate Change for Those With Gender Dysphoria

COLUMBUS, Ohio — The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) of Ohio and the transgender advocacy group Lambda Legal have filed a lawsuit against the Ohio Department of Health and the Office of Vital Statistics in an effort to force the State to allow those with gender dysphoria to change the sex on their birth certificate.

The organizations claim that the State’s practice of declining to issue an amended document deprives the person of an “accurate” birth certificate.

“This policy is not only archaic and out-of-step with the rest of America, but also dangerous. Forcing transgender Ohioans to go through life with inaccurate birth certificates, a basic form of identification, unnecessarily exposes them to discrimination, harassment, and violence,” Lambda Legal Law Fellow Kara Ingelhart said in a statement.

In Ohio, those with gender dysphoria may change the sex on their driver’s license and state identification, but not their birth certificate. The ACLU and Lambda Legal believe this can be an issue because in instances where a person must present their birth certificate, it now exposes them as being “transgender.”

“Denying transgender people birth certificates that match their gender identity reveals private information in contexts where this information would otherwise remain undisclosed (e.g., at a new job), regardless of whether a person’s transgender identity may otherwise be known by others (e.g., to friends or family), and regardless of a person’s desire not to disclose that personal information,” the legal complaint reads.

“Such a mismatch discloses the fact that a person is transgender. This is profoundly personal information in which a transgender person has a reasonable expectation of privacy. Disclosure of that information can seriously jeopardize a person’s safety, and subject the person to a risk of bodily harm,” it states.

The organizations have filed suit on behalf of four people who have sought to have their birth certificates changed, but were denied.

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“[T]he incorrect gender marker on Dr. Doe’s birth certificate exposed [him] to overt hostility when [he] first visited a social security office to correct the gender marker on [his] social security records. Upon seeing [his] birth certificate, a staff person loudly told [him] that the Social Security Administration could not ‘just change you from male to female based on your say-so,” the complaint outlines.

“A waiting room of more than one hundred people overheard the exchange, causing Dr. Doe’s transgender identity to be involuntarily disclosed,” it states.

The ACLU and Lambda Legal want the court to declare the State’s policy and practice unconstitutional and to enjoin the Department of Health and the Office of Vital Statistics from declining to issue amended birth certificates to those with gender dysphoria. It also asks that the birth certificates not provide any indication that the sex was changed.

Read the complaint in full here.

The Ohio attorney general’s office is reviewing the lawsuit at this time and will respond with legal argument.

Romans 9:20 says, “Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, ‘Why hast thou made me thus?'”


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  • Amos Moses – He>i

    so if it truly is “Dysphoria” ………. “a profound state of unease or dissatisfaction. In a psychiatric context, dysphoria may accompany depression, anxiety, or agitation.” …… WHY ON EARTH does the official public record NEED to be changed to accommodate their “unease” or “dissatisfaction” …………….

    • 1st Trans Church of Christ

      Because it is a public document that misrepresents a person’s identity.

      • afigmentoftheinternet

        A birth certificate represents certain objective facts at the time of birth, sex: male or Female, time and date of birth, parents, city/town and state. It has nothing to do with a person’s preferred Identity.

        • Michael C

          I would argue that birth certificates don’t always represent facts. For example, how many people have an “i” listed as their sex versus an “m” or an “f”? Almost none. …like basically zero.

          Further, how many people have parents listed on their birth certificates who are not actually biologically related to them? Many. …like, many, many.

      • Amos Moses – He>i

        no it does not …. it ACCURATELY represents their recognized condition at birth …… their “dysphoria” prevents them from accurately dealing with the truth ……..

  • Nidalap

    They, no doubt, believe they are working toward some fantasy utopia as, in truth, we descend into chaos…

  • Reason2012

    Another attempt to try validating their anti-science perversion agenda.

    Birth certificates are for biological facts: your gender / sex and your biological parents, if known. They’re not there to make you feel better by changing biological facts to instead push an anti-biology agenda.

    • Samwise

      This is not true. Birth certificates of people who were adopted do not list “biological facts”.

      Birth certificates of people conceived via a sperm or egg donor do not list “biological facts.”

      The availability of off the shelf DNA tests have caused a great number of people to find their birth certificate does not list “biological facts.”

      And you seem to be confused about both gays and trans people.

      • Reason2012

        If they find out the biological facts are not true in terms of parents, that can be fixed. This doesn’t change the fact that you’re a boy or a girl whether you “feel” like it or not.

        Feelings do not override biological facts – an argument the activists use when someone says they do not feel they are homosexual after all.

        Is it a lie that “feelings override biological facts” ? If so, then boys who feel like they’re a girl are really boys.

        Is it true that “feelings override biological facts” ? If so, then those who do not feel like they are homosexual are hence not.

        Which is it?

        • Samwise

          A person is heterosexual when they are sexually attracted to people of the opposite gender. Homosexual people are sexually attracted to people of the same gender. Bisexual people are sexually attracted to people of either gender. Asexual people do not experience sexual attraction. Nobody chooses any of this. Nobody wakes up one day and says “Well, today’s the day I’m going to decide on my orientation.”

          A person is born with an orientation. It just is. A very few people have announced that they changed their orientation. Some of these have been shown to be deceiving themselves, or bisexuals who refuse to acknowledge the other side of themselves. Regardless, the results are not verifiable or repeatable. Orientation is not changeable. Plenty of gay people prayed and endured gay conversion therapy. Nothing changed. The founders of Exodus International admitted it.

          Gay is about attraction. It may be a “feeling” but it is not a feeling that can be changed.

          Likewise, “trans” is a result of the brain.

          Chemicals released at various times during embryonic and fetal development control all aspects of development. Chemicals that drive brain development are released at a different time than chemicals that drive development of genitals.

          Read about all the things that can go haywire during human development (or the embryonic development of any animal). People born with XXY chromosomes. People with XYY chromosomes. People with XX genes who develop as male. People with XY genes who develop as female. People with ambiguous genitalia. People with 2 complete sets of genitalia. Chimeras with two sets of DNA from fraternal twins developing as one person.

          Weird things happen. This is fact.

          I trust you are confident of your gender. I trust nothing could make you feel like the other gender, even if you had never seen yourself in a mirror. Gender is in the brain.

          There simply are people who have a brain wired as one gender and genitals that developed as the opposite. Those people exist. They are called transgender. And research has shown that these human beings with value thrive and live productive lives if allowed to live according to the wiring in the brain. And research has shown that these human beings with value struggle, suffer and harm themselves at obscenely high rates if they are forced to live opposite to the wiring in their brain.

          I don’t understand it all. All facets of embrylogy are somewhat mind boggling. You don’t have to understand it either. But it is okay to simply accept a person whose brain is wired out of sync with genitals.

          If a little thing like a letter on a birth certificate can bring a human being a little more peace or a little more security, whyever not? Compassion is free.

          I didn’t follow your question about “feelings”. People do not choose their sexual orientation. It simply is. Likewise, people do not choose how their brain is wired.

          If you’re like me, you have plenty to worry about without second guessing the life of everyone else.
          Live and let live. And just be kind.

          • Reason2012

            Again:

            So a person who used to think he was homosexual now says he doesn’t feel like a homosexual, he’s told he cannot change the biological fact that he’s a homosexual, that his feelings do not override biological fact.

            A boy who used to think he was a boy now says he doesn’t feel like a boy, he’s told he can change the biological fact that he’s a boy, that his feelings do override biological fact.

            So which is it? One of these claims refutes the other.

          • Samwise

            Did you read what I wrote? Random anecdotes aside, neither gays nor trans people can change who they are. Sexual attraction, while pretty much dormant pre puberty, is not a decision a person can make. Likewise trans people are trans from birth. Your question is illogical.

            How many people can be described as “who used to think he was homosexual now says he doesn’t feel like a homosexual”? Sure, there are anecdotes. But the people put forth by Exodus International and similar outfits as “ex-gay” have been debunked. For 99+% of people, they simply cannot change their sexual orientation.

            Trans people generally know from an early age that who they are does not align with how the world sees them. They may not have the words to explain it. If they are in a culture that punishes such non conformity, they may consciously or unconsciously suppress it as long as they can. But trans people do not decide “now I’m a boy” or “now I am a girl.” At most, they decide to start living according to what they have always known. A trans man never thought he was female and a trans woman never thought she was male, regardless how how much they tried to conform to expectations.

          • Reason2012

            If you’re like me, you have plenty to worry about without second guessing the life of everyone else.

            Except when these other people are now legislating their beliefs upon everyone else, forcing others to accept it as normal, forcing everyone else’s kids and grandkids to be taught all about it and accept it as normal, forcing businesses who have no problem serving those into such things, but refuses to support ACTS that violate their faith to now violate their faith and support such ACTS or be put out of business.

            And this makes their claim to “Live and let live. And just be kind.” a complete lie as they seem to not let any who disagree with them to live in peace and will bully, ostracize and treat as criminals any who dare point out the flaws in their beliefs.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “”Well, today’s the day I’m going to decide on my orientation.””

            does not alter the FACT that they CHOOSE who to get naked with and “fall in love” and into bed with …… well it really is just lust …. and are held responsible for the CHOICE ….. whether “love” is involved or not ………

          • Tristan Fry

            Who would you prefer they get naked and fall into bed with?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            that is a false paradigm and a red herring ……but i would prefer they became saved christians …………

          • Tristan Fry

            Even if they did, they’d still be attracted to the same sex, so what difference would it make?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            EVIDENCE shows otherwise ………

          • Tristan Fry

            Present your evidence then. Pretty sure none exists.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            sorry …. you do not seem to understand …… if one becomes a christian …… then there is evidence of that being true …….. if a person is not ….. then there is evidence of that …….. the evidence is each persons life and how it is lived …….

          • Tristan Fry

            There are gay Christians. That neatly sends your theory out the window.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope …… they cannot be something that is antithetical to what they claim to be …… to claim it they have to DENY or LIE about one or the other …………. they can CLAIM whatever they like ……. but there is no EVIDENCE they are christian …… thats kind of saying you are “a little bit pregnant” ….. NOPE ….. you either are or YOU ARE NOT ……….

          • Tristan Fry

            Incorrect. The No True Scotsman fallacy notwithstanding, it is entirely possible to be homosexual and Christian. The definition of a Christian is in no way conditional on a person’s sexuality.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            NTS does not apply to christianity ….. it applies to logic problems …… and there is no problem here ….. False red herring argumentation …….. just as McDonalds can say what is a Big Mac and what is not …….. christians are allowed to say who is ACTUALLY a christian and WHO IS NOT ………. and it is EVIDENCE BASED …………

            “The definition of a Christian is in no way conditional on a person’s sexuality.”

            it is CONDITIONAL on a persons ACCEPTANCE that they are a sinner and the HOMOSEXUAL does not agree with Christ and scripture that a PRACTICING HOMOSEXUAL makes a person NOT IN AGREEMENT with Christ …… and therefore NOT a christian …………

          • Tristan Fry

            NTS applies to anyone who uses personal snobbery to override existing definitions, which you very much guilty of doing and using your version of your faith to do it. There are entire congregations of gay Christians. Your hatred of them does not negate them.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “anyone who uses personal snobbery to override existing definitions”

            utter garbage ………

          • Tristan Fry

            It is exactly what you are doing. You are just one Christian, you don’t get to tell other Christians they are false because they disagree with you about something. And no, they’re not disagreeing with God. I want to be emphatic about that. They are disagreeing with you and your interpretation.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “You are just one Christian, you don’t get to tell other Christians they are false because they disagree with you about something.”

            you ARE NOT a christian ….. and YOU do not get to define who is and who is not ….. mostly …. BECAUSE YOU DO NOT KNOW what it is to be one …….. nor can you ARTICULATE what it is to be one …….. so it is YOU who is making up definitions and DISREGARDING what those definitions are ………. and it just your opinion …. and BTW ….. “you don’t get to tell other Christians they are false because they disagree with you about something” … APPLIES TO YOU …………..

          • Tristan Fry

            I think I have told you, several times, that I am a Christian. I think I know better than you do.

            And nothing you say or do is going to stop gay Christians from practicing the very same faith you and I both enjoy.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            no ….. you are not …… or you would say the things you do ….. “And nothing you say or do is going to stop gay Christians from practicing the very same faith you and I both enjoy.” ….. see ….. here is the thing ….. THEY DO NOT ….. they have made an idol to THEMSELVES that they want to believe ….. and they have called it Jesus …… but it is not the christian and SCRIPTURAL Jesus ….. and it is a FALSE GOD and IDOLATRY …………. and you seem to worship that same image ……

          • Tristan Fry

            Yes. I am a Christian. If that makes you uncomfortable you are free to choose another faith. You are going to heaven (presumably) with millions of people just like me.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            i did not choose my faith ….. God chose it for me ………. i do not get any allowance to override HIS DECISION ……. so sorry …… “(presumably)” not ……… a christian would not use such an agnostic A-theist argument as NTS …… so IF you really are …. i do not believe it or you ……..

          • Tristan Fry

            Nothing you believe about me is of consequence. You don’t know me. I know I am a Christian.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            LOL ……….. sure you are ….. when did God choose you ……….

          • Tristan Fry

            That isn’t how it works. I chose God.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            not according to SCRIPTURE ……….. according to Christ, Paul, John, Peter ….. oh heck … ALL the apostles just to save time ……….

          • Tristan Fry

            God seeks me, true. But I also ELECTED to become a Christian. I could have chosen to be an atheist but I didn’t. I made the choice. Me alone.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            NOPE ….. no scripture that says we are elected of our own accord …… God ELECTED you if and when HE save YOU ………. at that moment …… not before, during or after ……

          • Tristan Fry

            Nope yourself. God can elect people all he likes but if they say no then it means nothing.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            so YOUR will is greater than GODS will for you …… and you call yourself a christian ……….. see ….. i told you ….. you have not submitted to Christ ……. you are not a christian …… your testimony is rejected ………….

          • Tristan Fry

            Yeah I call myself a Christian, because I DECIDED to become a Christian. So did you. The difference is you think you accepted some call that you magically got that millions of others didn’t. I would never say anything that arrogant.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you argue from the world …. because you are OF the world ….. and not of Christ and christianity ……….. “The difference is you think you accepted some call that you magically got that millions of others didn’t.” … but you did not ….. not from your testimony …… you are trying to play the religious word game ….. and you are in all likelihood not saved ……… and that is sad ………. you will get to the end and discover just how wrong you were ………… Eldrida Urika – Beamer – Mama Barely – Sharon at home …… let me add Tristan Fry to the list ………

            gotta give you credit ….. you kept it hidden longer this time ………

          • Tristan Fry

            No, I argue from the world because I LIVE in the world, and so do you.
            I am a Christian because it is the faith I chose to follow. Same as you.
            You are not in a position to speak of my faith, so I disregard such statements.
            I have no idea who Eldrika, Beamer, Mama or Sharon are. You are mistaken.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “I have no idea who Eldrika, Beamer, Mama or Sharon are. You are mistaken.”

            cant even be honest about who you are ….. but that is typical of sock puppets ………..

          • Tristan Fry

            I don’t play games. I’m not interested. But if it makes you feel better you can call me the tooth fairy too. I have nothing to gain by being other people.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Tristan Fry – Eldrida Urika – Beamer – Mama Barely – Sharon at home …..

            claim of being a christian testimony rejected ……….

          • Tristan Fry

            Your opinion means zero.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            then why are you here ……. why do you continue Sharon ………

          • Tristan Fry

            My name isn’t Sharon. I told you that. I am a man.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ROTFL ………. sure …. whatever floats your A-theist boat …..

          • Tristan Fry

            I’m not an a-theist, either, whatever that is. I’m a Christian.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            no you are not …. your “i am a christian” claims are rejected ………..

          • Tristan Fry

            I am not your imaginary friend, and I’m a married man. If you can’t accept that, like you can’t accept so many other things, continue to live in your bubble.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            do not like it then take a hike mike ….. err …. Sharon ……

          • Tristan Fry

            I don’t know who your imaginary friend is. I’m a Christian man with a wife and children, not Sharon.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            okay … Sharon …….

          • Tristan Fry

            I’m not Sharon. You have me confused with someone else. I am a married man.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            LOL …. sure Sharon ….. there, there …. thats a good Sharon ……

          • Tristan Fry

            I’m not Sharon. No idea who you’re talking about, but I’m sure SHE is having a huge laugh at your expense.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
            3:11 There is none that understandeth, THERE IS NONE that SEEKETH after God.
            3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
            3:13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

            so either YOU are a liar or scripture is a liar …… i choose you to be the liar ….. for you to choose ….. YOU would have to seek God …… and God says we do NOT …… so YOUR statement is a LIE …………………

          • Tristan Fry

            People seek God. How do you know God sought YOU? Or when? Answer: you don’t.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            answer ….. i do ….. when i was pulled out of a sea drowning in SIN and TRESPASSES and COMPLETELY UNABLE to save myself …….. and i regained my senses ….. I KNEW THE EXACT MOMENT …………….

          • Tristan Fry

            You made a decision. Just like everyone else. Nothing magical happened. You decided to be a Christian.

          • LynnRH

            And when he did become a Christian he decided to obey God’s laws which included any sexual sin (even if he did like it) just because God said NO. That’s what you do when you become a “true” Christian; you allow God to be God and admit that you ARE NOT and you don’t make the rules anymore.

          • Tristan Fry

            I’m sorry your church has taught you that they are sexual sins, but they’re not. You can be homosexual and never touch another person. Being homosexual isn’t what you do, it’s what you are.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “Being homosexual isn’t what you do, it’s what you are.”

            lies of the world ……….

          • Tristan Fry

            So you’re saying a person who is attracted to the same gender but never does anything about it somehow not a homosexual?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “So you’re saying ”

            SO GOD HAS SAID ….. So CHRIST HAS SAID …….

            the sin IS IN THE MIND ….. not in the ACT ……

            Matthew

            5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
            5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

            5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

          • Tristan Fry

            No, because we are not robots who can turn off our natural sexuality. But just because we have an attraction doesn’t mean we act on it.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            so you DENY Christs power ……….. you deny scripture and Christs direct word on the matter and yet you THINK you are a christian …… sad ………..

          • Tristan Fry

            I don’t deny Christ’s power, but no one can turn a homosexual into a heterosexual. It doesn’t happen.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “I don’t deny Christ’s power, but no one can turn a homosexual into a heterosexual.”

            SELF-CONTRADICTION …………….

          • Tristan Fry

            No. Here, I will say it again and maybe it will sink in the second time.

            I don’t deny Christ’s power, but no one can turn a homosexual into a heterosexual.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            so further stating your SELF-CONTRADICTION somehow makes it NOT self-contradictory …….. REALLY …………

          • Tristan Fry

            I didn’t deny Christ’s power. I merely stated that Christ can’t turn a homosexual into a heterosexual. No one can.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            so a lie … a denial of Christ power ….. anti-scriptural ….. and CALLING Christ and God liars ……. wow ….. you keep digging that hole dont ‘cha ……….

          • Tristan Fry

            I didn’t deny Christ’s power, as I’ve said (and demonstrated) several times. I never called Christ or God a liar, either. This is your own twisting at work.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope ….. when you say what you said ….. YOU DID and YOU DO …..

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            more self contradiction ……

            Tristan Fry
            “I don’t deny Christ’s power, but no one can turn a homosexual into a heterosexual. It doesn’t happen.”

            so s/he says as s/he then denies Christ power ……. so further REstating your SELF-CONTRADICTION somehow makes it NOT self-contradictory …….. REALLY …………

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Christ could turn water into wine ….. but He is prevented from changing the mind of a part of HIS creation ……. that is some blaspheme ………….

          • Tristan Fry

            You should ask why he would create something like homosexuality and refuse to “cure” it then. It must exist for a reason. And no, people don’t CHOOSE it.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            He did not “create it” ….. and again you PROVE you are not a christian but an A-Theist …… God created sexuality …… MEN, SINNERS ….. ABUSE what was created …..

          • Tristan Fry

            OK, now who’s the liar? Homosexuality exists, millions of people are homosexual, and you’re saying they “chose” it? Science tells you flat-out that you’re wrong and you continue to call it “sin”. That’s disgraceful.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “Science tells you flat-out that you’re wrong ”

            so the “science” is wrong ….. God is not ……

            “and you continue to call it “sin”.”

            GOD calls it SIN …..

            “That’s disgraceful.”

            so now God is disgraceful …… hmmmm ….. and you profess to be a christian ….. SELF-CONTRADICTION and LIES from a LIAR ….. just keep talking and diggin’ that hole for your SELF-CONTRADICTORY self ……….

          • Tristan Fry

            Science can prove itself, God doesn’t call it sin.
            God isn’t disgraceful, your comment is what’s disgraceful. Stop twisting my words please.
            I have said nothing self-contradictory. When you keep twisting things of course you want to say it’s a “hole” but it’s one you’re digging, not me.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Science BELONGS to God ………. Science does not CONTRADICT God …… and if science is your AUTHORITY …… then you have SELF-CONTRADICTED AGAIN when you said you are a christian ….. and you are STILL a liar ……………….

          • Tristan Fry

            “Science belongs to God” – no it doesn’t.
            I have not self-contradicted. Not once.
            I am a Christian, and you don’t know me.
            All facts, Amos, and all facts you can do nothing about.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you can lie all you want ….. your written words show you for what you are ….. and ARE NOT ……… i do not have to do even one thing but point out your SELF-CONTRADICTION and lies …… you are doing all the hard work ………..

          • Tristan Fry

            I haven’t lied, little man. Nor have I self-contradicted, but you can scream it to your heart’s content.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            God says the DO choose it …. and you call God a LIAR …… but it is YOU who are the liar ……

          • Tristan Fry

            All right, your name calling has gone quite far enough. It’s amazing your comments are allowed to stand.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ROTFL …….. you are the LIAR and yet YOUR comments are allowed to stand …… FYI ….. it is not name calling to call such an OBVIOUS LIAR a LIAR …………

          • Tristan Fry

            I’m sick of your name calling and will report it from now on.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            boo hoo ………. i do not care …. SHARON ……..

          • Tristan Fry

            I’m not Sharon and don’t care who she is.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Tristan Fry
            “I don’t deny Christ’s power, but no one can turn a homosexual into a heterosexual. It doesn’t happen.”

            so s/he says as s/he then denies Christ power ……. so further REstating your SELF-CONTRADICTION somehow makes it NOT self-contradictory …….. REALLY ………… and you CONTRADICT God and His word ………….

            2Tim 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

            1 Cor
            6:8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.
            6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
            6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
            6:11 And SUCH WERE some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

            AGAIN ….. just for your edification …. SUCH WERE …… not “is” …… WERE ……

          • Tristan Fry

            Christ can’t divide by zero either, but it doesn’t mean He isn’t powerful.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            and your evidence is ……….. Christ CREATED everything from ZERO …… or do you deny that also ………..

          • Tristan Fry

            Diving by zero is a mathematical impossibility, Amos.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Not for God ……

          • Tristan Fry

            I’m not your imaginary friend.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            We are dead in our TRESPASSES and SINS …… DEAD MEN do not decide to become alive or anything else ……………

          • Tristan Fry

            How much sillier is this going to get? I’m not dead, and I have a brain, and I make decisions with it. So do you. Why pretend otherwise?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            so you disagree with SCRIPTURE and you are not a christian as you claimed …… testimony rejected and you have just stated that your testimony is a lie ….. nuff said ………

          • Tristan Fry

            I don’t disagree with scripture, but chances are I disagree with your understanding of it. Nuff said.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “People seek God”

            GOD says they do not and never have ….. so you are at VARIANCE with GODS word ……. men seek idols ….. men are IDOL making machines ……… and they are REALLY good at it …….

          • Tristan Fry

            Well, I’ll just go to my church this Sunday and tell everyone that they aren’t Christians because they sought out God and God ignored them. And then I’ll say “well that’s what Amos thinks”. I don’t know what you mean by idol. I worship no idols, only God.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you argue from the world …. because you are OF the world ….. and not of Christ and christianity …………

          • Tristan Fry

            And so are you, Amos. If you’re not from the world, where are you from?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            i am a sojourner ….. a citizen of the Kingdom …….. a stranger in a strange land ……. and not of this world ….. just stuck in it ………. for the moment …….

          • Tristan Fry

            Yep, just like everyone else who chose their faith.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Tristan Fry – Eldrida Urika – Beamer – Mama Barely – Sharon at home …..

            claim of being a christian testimony rejected ………. again ……

          • Tristan Fry

            Don’t forget the Easter Bunny. I am the Easter Bunny too.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            goes with the rest of your SELF-CONTRADICTION ……….

          • Tristan Fry

            It isn’t self contradiction to say Jesus can’t turn a homosexual into a heterosexual. He doesn’t because he doesn’t hate homosexuals as you do.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            it is to say God has power to change and to then say He cant …… so a lie … a denial of Christ power ….. anti-scriptural ….. and CALLING Christ and God liars ……. wow ….. you keep digging that hole dont ‘cha ………. SELF-CONTRADICTORY nonsense ………

          • Tristan Fry

            It isn’t self contradiction. I haven’t contradicted myself. I never denied Christ wasn’t powerful. I merely said He can’t do the IMpossible, such as divide by zero or turn a homosexual into a heterosexual. Likewise he can’t change people’s eye color.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            it is DIRECT SELF-CONTRADICTION …… and it is in the SAME SENTENCE ………. and you are a liar ……… and you have called God and Christ liars ……

          • Tristan Fry

            Your name calling has grown tiresome.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            bye …. cya ….. would not want to be ya …… and your SELF-CONTRADICTORY manner ……

          • Tristan Fry

            I never said I was leaving, so you can use your tired, overused platitude on someone else. And I haven’t self-contradicted, not once.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you do nothing BUT SELF-CONTRADICT ……….

          • Tristan Fry

            If only you were able to give an example, but you can’t. Because I haven’t.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            so you again call God and Christ a liar ………. SELF-CONTRADICTION ………..

            more self contradiction ……

            “Your opinion means zero.”

            MORE SELF-CONTRADICTION …………..

            Tristan Fry
            “I don’t deny Christ’s power, but no one can turn a homosexual into a heterosexual. It doesn’t happen.”

            so s/he says as s/he then denies Christ power ……. so further REstating your SELF-CONTRADICTION somehow makes it NOT self-contradictory …….. REALLY …………

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “gay christian” ….. = …… oxymoron ……

            there are no modifiers to the term christian …… they are no murderer christians …… there are no thief christians …… there are no adulterer christians ….. there is NO SIN MODIFIER to the term christians ……. your statement is a LIE ………….

          • Tristan Fry

            Incorrect. A quick internet search brings up hundreds of gay-friendly congregations. If you don’t like it, too bad.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “A quick internet search brings up hundreds of gay-friendly congregations.”

            SO WHAT ….. we can find all kinds of LIES on the internet …..

          • Tristan Fry

            These are not lies, they are found using simple church directories. Once again, your issues do not constitute a lie on the part of others.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            a LIE is a LIE no matter where it is found …….. and your belief in it does not change it to truth ………

          • Tristan Fry

            There is nothing that makes it a lie. You seem to think if you hate something enough it becomes untrue.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you seem to think if you believe a lie it becomes true ….. IT DOES NOT ………

          • Tristan Fry

            It isn’t a lie just because you call it one.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            it is a lie because it is not SCRIPTURAL ……….

          • Tristan Fry

            Just because something doesn’t appear in scripture doesn’t make it a lie.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            SCRIPTURE is the ultimate authority for truth for the christian …… what is YOUR authority ………

          • Tristan Fry

            Scripture. But I don’t argue based on what isn’t written there, which is what you are doing.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you argue from the world …. because you are OF the world ….. and not of Christ and christianity ……….

          • Tristan Fry

            I am both, and you are not informed enough about me to speak about my walk with God.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you have informed EVERYONE here who is reading your very words on the matter ……

          • Tristan Fry

            No, you’re just attempting to wrestle God over to your side as you do with everything else.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Tristan Fry – Eldrida Urika – Beamer – Mama Barely – Sharon at home …..

            claim of being a christian testimony rejected ………. yet again …….

          • Tristan Fry

            Those sound like women to me. I am very much a married man. But of course you know better, right?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nothing about truth in screen names as any relation to anything in reality ………

          • Tristan Fry

            That means nothing and you still don’t know me.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            back at ‘cha sport ………

          • Tristan Fry

            And back again. You don’t know me.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “You don’t know me.”

            very interesting ….. that you say “You don’t know me.” ……. and yet you think you can come here and ASSERT things about me …… as if you do know ME ….. but then turn right back around and say such STUPIFYING things as …… “You don’t know me.” …….

            BLATANT SELF-CONTRADICTION ……….. and lies ….. and so you are a LIAR ……. SHARON …..

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Hostess: Hi. Welcome to Build a God. How may I help you?

            Guest: Hi, I received a Build a God gift certificate so I am here to build my own deity.

            Hostess: Oh, this has got to be so exciting for you.

            Guest: Oh, it really is.

            Hostess: OK, Lets get started. First we have to determine if your God is Male or Female or Unisex.

            Guest: Men are pigs anyway, so she has to be Female.

            Hostess: Great choice. Now we have to select some of the attributes of your Goddess.

            Guest: What do you provide?

            Hostess: Do you want her to be kind, loving, compassionate? Just, angry, righteous, wrathful?

            Guest: The goddess I believe in would only be loving and kind.

            Hostess: Perfect. Now is there any kind of sin that you are intending to buy your goddess?

            Guest: Sin?

            Hostess: You know, things like lying, cheating, stealing, murder, homosexuality ……

            Guest: Well I definitely want my goddess to be gay affirming and sin itself just seems to be so negative. I am a good person and I think my goddess will think everyone else is, too.

            Hostess:Oh, wonderful. Your goddess is coming along beautifully. Now we have to get the difficult questions. Does your goddess offer an afterlife?

            Guest: Yes! My goddess would let everyone go to heaven. Except for Hitler, Genghis Khan and my good for nothing ex-boyfriend.

            Hostess: Excellent, Excellent! Now the final step, you have to name your goddess.

            Guest: Hmmmmmmmm. I think …. I am going to name her Jesus.

            Hostess: Oh, Wonderful ….. Thats what everyone names their god.

          • Hello again, Amos.

            Judging from this exchange, it seems like this person has conversed with you before under a different ID…

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            another sock puppet for sure ….. and the same old weak and personal attack argumentation ….. YUP …….. BTW ….. how you been doing my friend ……… good to see you around ………..

          • I’ve been well. Still studying His Word and researching testimonies, etc.

            Also Amos, check out the site fstdtcom (stands for “Fundies Say the Darndest Things”). It’s a community where folks archive comments from “fundies” and make fun of them. Both you and I and others we know have posts of ours featured on that site (you can type your DISQUS handle in their search page to bring up results).

            This channel seems to get featured a lot, so it wouldn’t surprise if some of these folks you’ve been exchanging with are also members over there…

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ROTFL ……. if you are going to be hated and made fun of it should be by the wrong side and for the right reasons ….. it makes no difference to me …… my 26000+ comments are wide open for anyone to read, peruse, laugh at, whatever …… i know what i said and i hide it from no one …… even the FUNDAMENTAL (emphasis on MENTAL) A-theists ……. they have no argument as they have rejected knowledge and their thinking is futile ….. it is not even a fair fight …….. go to utube and look for “HOW TO ANSWER THE FOOL” for free …… STB does a magnificent job of showing just how futile their thinking is …………….

          • Tristan Fry

            Was there a point to that? If you’re accusing me of creating a convenient God, I could easily accuse you of the same. The point is, you are not the one who determines who is Christian and who isn’t.

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            That’s what they are trying to do. Build their own God. How sad that is.

          • God said same sex sex aka homosexuality is a sin. If you deny He said that then you are in direct opposition to God.

          • Tristan Fry

            You’re putting your own words and bigotries in God’s mouth.

          • Romans 1:18-32 New King James Version (NKJV)
            God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness
            18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
            24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
            26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
            28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[a] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[b] unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

          • Tristan Fry

            You’re still putting your own words in God’s mouth, especially if you hate gay people.

          • I gave you a direct quote from God. God hates no one and neither do I.

          • Tristan Fry

            You speak about homosexuality as though it’s a disease that needs to be cured. It isn’t and it can’t be. That’s not God’s position, it’s your own.

          • It is a sin and that makes it a spiritual disease and Christ Jesus is the only one that can and will cure it and all other sin.

          • Tristan Fry

            It is not an illness therefore it requires no cure. Why do you run screaming from the science on the matter for the purpose of upholding bigotry?

          • Who knows more? Science or God our creator?

          • Tristan Fry

            I don’t know if it’s a contest, but when science can back up its hypotheses with facts, it isn’t wrong.

          • When it goes against God and His Holy Word it is wrong.

          • Tristan Fry

            Which it doesn’t.

          • Yes it does. On this issue science is 100% wrong and in direct opposition with God. No one is born with anything that causes them to be any part of the LGBT.

          • Tristan Fry

            Science isn’t 100% wrong when it can back up its claims, which it is able to do. And yet you continue to go with your faith.

          • At this point you need to tell me what claims you are referring to and what proof is there to back them up and please be specific.

          • Calling yourself a Christian and actually being one is not always the same thing.
            ————————-
            Matthew 7:21-23 New King James Version (NKJV)
            I Never Knew You
            21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

          • Tristan Fry

            I’m secure in my Christian faith. In fact so much so that I’m not pointing fingers at other Christians.

          • But yet you deny the truth of God and His Holy Word.

          • Tristan Fry

            No I don’t. I simply don’t misrepresent it as you do.

          • The only way there is room for misrepresentation/misinterpretation is having your eyes blinded, your mind and heart darkened by Satan out of love for your sins. God loves you and wants you to come to Him through His son Christ Jesus before it is too late for you to do so; for tomorrow on this earth is not promised to anyone.

          • Tristan Fry

            No, what is happening is you are ascribing your own prejudices to God. How else to explain the fact that so many Christians find your words offensive?

          • They are not my words they are God’s Words and those who find it offensive do so because of demonic influence. Those you speak of that call themselves Christians are Christians in name only (CINO’s) and they teach falsehoods which make them the wolves in sheep’s clothing that Jesus warns us about in His Holy Word.

          • Tristan Fry

            There is a demonic influence all right but it’s not at work in me, it’s at work in so-called Christians such as yourself who pick on gay people.

          • I have done nothing but tell you the truth of God and His Holy Word and you have rejected it and Him.

            Your blood is on your hands.

          • Tristan Fry

            Your opinion only.

          • I gave you God’s Word. Not my opinion.

          • Tristan Fry

            You gave me your interpretation of God’s word. It is an interpretation I reject outright.

          • What part of Romans 1:18-32 do you disagree with?

          • Tristan Fry

            The fact that it doesn’t mention homosexuals.

          • It mentions the sin of same sex sex aka homosexuality.

          • LynnRH

            I finally just had to shake the sand from my feet on this one (Tristan Fry). He will continue to be in my prayers for his salvation but it’s obvious we’ve done all we can do here. We just end up going around, and around, and around, and around. LOL

          • If you actually knew God and His Holy Word you would know that you are wrong.

          • Tristan Fry

            I do know it, and I’m not wrong. You are.

          • There are not gay Christians.
            —————-
            2 Corinthians 5:17 New King James Version (NKJV)
            17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

          • Tristan Fry

            And you’ll notice that 2 Corinthians 5:17 says nothing about gay Christians.
            Wikipedia: “List of Christian denominations affirming LGBT”

  • Samwise

    Are you pro life?

    Trans people exist. Maybe you think they shouldn’t, but they do. And whatever you think of trans people, they do not deserve to be harmed or beaten because they are trans.

    Many trans people appear to be their preferred gender. When they need to present documents stating the other gender, they are in danger.

    It makes no sense, but some people have so much hate for people they don’t understand that they feel entitled to physically attack. The rates of physical assault and murder of trans people exceeds every other demographic, by a large margin.

    Laws permitting documents to state the preferred gender offers a measure of safety.

    Since you are not harmed, what is so bad about extending kindness?

  • mikegillespie

    Interesting bit of data regarding violence against trannies: most of those who are
    assaulted or killed are working as prostitutes. By leaving out that
    important fact, the LGBT activists make it sound like people are stalking trannies or
    invading their homes. Not true at all. A transgender hooker is very
    likely to be at physical risk – so is a normal heterosexual hooker.
    When you are engaging in an illegal activity and consorting with a rough
    crowd of people, many of them using drugs, bad things are likely to
    happen.

    There are lots of truly oppressed people in this world.
    Men who pretend to be women and work as prostitutes are not on the top
    of my Boo Hoo List. If they would act like what they are (men) they
    would not be in danger. Actions do have consequences. If you press
    your hand on a stove burner that you know is hot, and it burns, you do
    not deserve sympathy. If you are a man who dresses up as a woman and
    offers sex for sale, and you encounter violence, you do not deserve
    sympathy.

    It’s that simple.

    • TheKingOfRhye

      Interesting bit of data regarding violence against trannies: most of those who are assaulted or killed are working as prostitutes

      Do you have anything to actually back that statement up? I looked at several different sources online, and I couldn’t find one single thing that said that. It sounds doubtful, anyway, because it would imply that a majority of trans people work as prostitutes.

      If you are a man who dresses up as a woman and offers sex for sale, and you encounter violence, you do not deserve sympathy.

      Even for someone who is against transgender people and prostitution as I’m guessing you are, that’s a pretty damned cold thing to say.

  • Susan Perelka

    I think the One who created us gets the final say here. He made them male and female. Any other definition is rebellion against Gods created order. We understand that satan is the deceiver, telling people lies as truth. God tells us the truth, he can’t lie. You can reject Gods truth, but every decision we make in life has consequences, good and bad. You can either listen to the One who created you or not. BUT there are consequences to booth those decisions. Eternal consequences. So choose carefully. I think the wise decision is to listen to the Creator. After all, He is the One Who made us. You may get a human document to say otherwise, but it won’t change the fact that the information written within you (your DNA) has been pre-programmed by the Creator Himself. It is contained in every one of the trillions of cells in our bodies. It says you are either male or female. Anything else is an untruth. You can deny the truth, but it still remains truth whether you believe it or not. Each person has to make a choice and each will receive the consequences, that is just a fact. Choose wisely.

  • Gender Dysphoria is a spiritual/mental disease that cannot be cured by changing a birth certificate. Give your life and all that is in it to God through Christ Jesus and He will cure you and set you free.