Planned Parenthood President to Speak at Freedom From Religion Foundation Convention

Photo Credit: Laurie Shaull

Cecile Richards, who recently announced her resignation as president of Planned Parenthood, is scheduled to speak at this November’s Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF) convention, and the atheist and agnostic group says that it plans to present her with an award for “moving society forward.”

The Wisconsin-based group made the announcement on Monday, advising that Richards has accepted their invitation to speak at FFRF’s 41st annual convention, scheduled for Nov. 2-4 in San Francisco.

“Richards will receive FFRF’s ‘Forward’ award, which recognizes work to move society forward,” it outlined.

“Under her leadership, the number of Planned Parenthood supporters swelled to 12 million, four times more than when she joined, and the organization expanded advocacy efforts to include fighting for access to health care,” the Church-State separation group said.

It also noted that Richards formerly worked as deputy chief of staff for now-House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, and that she was named one of Time Magazine’s 100 most influential people in 2011 and 2012.

As previously reported, the late Anne Gaylor co-founded FFRF in 1976 as an offshoot of the abortion “rights” advocacy movement.

“[FFRF] grew out of the reproductive rights movement after the Gaylors saw legislative hearings packed with Catholic nuns, priests and schoolchildren and concluded religion was the root of women’s inequality,” the publication Isthmus once noted.

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Gaylor was the author of the book “Abortion Is A Blessing,” published in 1975, in which she argued in part that abortion was necessary so that women could achieve equality and work outside of the home. FFRF includes the text of the book on their website, which additionally asserts that Eve’s sin and Christ’s virgin birth are myths, and that the Bible has “damaged women.”

“Birth control and abortion are our greatest steps forward in social and moral progress since we freed the slaves,” she claimed. “A woman’s right to control her own reproductive life is a blessing, a blessing for her and a blessing for society. There is no reason to be bashful or apologetic about supporting women’s freedom to choose abortion; there is every reason to be ashamed of supporting a religion that opposes that freedom.”

In addition to her work with FFRF, Gaylor was an administrator with the Women’s Medical Fund (WMF), an organization designed to fund abortions, and also started a chapter of Zero Population Growth (ZPG). She additionally served on the board of the abortion advocacy group NARAL.

In 2011, Gaylor was the recipient of the Dr. George Tiller Memorial Award, named after the notorious abortionist who became known as “Tiller the Baby Killer.”

FFRF is now co-led by Gaylor’s daughter, Annie Laurie, and her husband Dan Barker, a former minister who turned away from Christianity in 1984 and became involved in atheist activism.

Similar to Gaylor’s abortion and anti-Christian activism, Richards founded the Texas Freedom Network (TFN) in 1995 as a way to combat what she termed as being the policies of the “religious right.” The group works with liberal mainstream “churches” to work against such policies.

“Based in Austin, TFN acts as the state’s watchdog for monitoring far-right issues, organizations, money and leaders. The organization has been instrumental in defeating initiatives backed by the religious right in Texas, including private school vouchers and textbook censorship at the State Board of Education,” TFN’s website reads.

“Our growing library of original research has become invaluable to policymakers on a wide range of Church-State and education issues, such as the faith-based initiative, public school Bible courses and sex education,” it states.

Her mother, Ann Richards, served as the Democratic governor of Texas from 1991-1995, and her daughter worked as an advisor to Hillary Clinton during the 2016 presidential election.

In addition to Richards, also scheduled to appear at the FFRF conference will be writer Salman Rushdie, television host Adam Savage, actor John de Lancie, Ex-Muslims of North America co-founder Sarah Haider, actress Julia Sweeney and stand-up comedian Leihann Lord.

Proverbs 6:16-19 reads, “These six things doth the LORD hate, yea, seven are an abomination unto Him: a proud look, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, a false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.”

Abortion is Murder from I’ll Be Honest on Vimeo.

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  • peanut butter

    Looks like the FFRF, which I would say probably has some satanists in it, condones sacrificing babies to ba’al. I’m sure they are more on a spectrum, from atheist to agnostic, (and in between other nuts from all walks of evil).

    • Bryan E. Finn


      • peanut butter

        Freedom From Religion Foundation/ Yes.

    • Chris

      Atheist = no gods, devils, fairies, unicorns, yeti, leprechauns, etc. Basically everything that has no evidence of ever existing.

      • Amos Moses – He>i

        and where is your proof there is no evidence ………….. and if you are blind to the evidence ….. HOW WOULD YOU KNOW ………….

        • Croquet_Player

          I love the idea of leprechauns. if you lost a sock or found a penny on the sidewalk, my dear old Irish grandmother would wink her eye at you and whisper “leprechauns”. Isn’t that charming? I miss her so much. A sweet lady with a backbone of steel. Her beloved husband unexpectedly died at 39 of a ruptured appendix (just before they had antibiotics) and left her with four children, aged 8, 6, 4, and 2. She got by on a fireman’s pension, and by working day and night as a hairdresser. She ended up doing hair for the Rockefeller ladies, which I imagine is a pretty great gig if you’re an Irish immigrant hairdresser lady. She put all four children through school. Never lost an opportunity to laugh, and tell people she loved them.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            all very nice … DOES NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION ……. what kind of a PHONEY intellectual are you ………….

          • Croquet_Player

            I did not claim to be an intellectual, phony or otherwise.

          • Susan Perelka

            Just thought you should know, Jesus told us when you mock us and call us all kinds of names because of His names sake, great will be our reward in heaven. Name calling won’t stop us telling you the truth in Gods Word.

          • Croquet_Player

            I beg your pardon, I don’t believe I called anyone any names, nor did I mock anyone.

          • Susan Perelka

            Sorry, I clicked on the wrong link. meant it for Mark Sebree, who has insulted christian’s numerous times, on numerous posts. I guess I posted it to let him know insults won’t stop us from speaking Gods truth. Again, I truly apologize. I did not mean that for you.

          • Croquet_Player

            You are very kind indeed, no apology necessary, no offense taken whatsoever. Thank you for being so thoughtful and gracious.

        • MarkSebree

          “and where is your proof there is no evidence”

          The fact that there is no objective evidence to support the existence of any deity is pretty much its own “proof”. If you assert that something exists, then you are the one that is responsible for supporting that assertion.

          “and if you are blind to the evidence”

          Pretty much like you with respect to science and logic. However, you have NEVER provided any objective evidence to support your assertions that your deity exists. All you have provided are personal opinions, personal beliefs, poorly presented statements, and logical fallacies.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “The fact that there is no objective evidence to support the existence of any deity is pretty much its own “proof”.”

            it is not a “fact” established by anything …. because you are blind …. your blindness to the evidence does not remove the evidence from existence ……. nor is it any proof ….. absence of evidence does not prove your case …… except to prove you to be blind to it …….

          • MarkSebree

            “it is not a “fact” established by anything”

            Actually, i is a fact that is established by a lack of anything. The complete lack of objective evidence supporting your assertion that your deity exists is by definition a “proof” that there is no objective evidence. You have been challenged repeatedly to provide that evidence, but you have never been able to do so.

            “because you are blind”

            A logical fallacy. You have not presented me with anything to “see”. All you have done is demand that I believe you for no reason at all. You have repeatedly refused to support your assertions when questioned, probably because you cannot.

            “your blindness to the evidence does not remove the evidence from existence”

            Your refusal to delineate that supposed evidence does not mean that the evidence exists. Your assertion that the evidence exists when you cannot provide it does not mean that your supposed evidence exists. And I cannot see what does not exist.

            “nor is it any proof”

            The fact that you cannot provide any of this supposed evidence when asked to, repeatedly, is a pretty clear proof that you do not have any evidence to support your claims. You assertion that evidence exists when you repeatedly refuse to provide it does not mean that he evidence exists.

            “absence of evidence does not prove your case”

            Actually, the case is that there is no evidence that your deity exists, which means that the absence of evidence does prove my case since all you need to do to disprove it is to provide objective evidence that your deity exists. And you have never been able to do that. That is why you rant and rave and commit logical fallacies in all your posts, to detract from the fact that you have nothing objective to support your claims.

            “except to prove you to be blind to it”

            You are the only one that is blind here. You appear to be blind to reality. You have not presented me or anyone else with anything to see. You DEMAND that everyone accept your baseless opinions without question, and when people do question you, you show that you have nothing to back you up. I see far more clearly that you are ever likely to, since I do not pretend to see what does not exist.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            sorry … LACK of something does not equal something …. you are in SELF CONTRADICTION ………… “complete lack of objective evidence supporting your assertion that your deity exists” …… is that a scientific or theological statement ………

            “You have been challenged repeatedly to provide that evidence”

            i cannot show you what you CLEARLY cannot see …. and the REST OF US DO …… we are not moved by YOUR BLINDNESS ………….

          • MarkSebree

            “LACK of something does not equal something”

            UNLESS your statement is about the lack of something to start with. The original statement was that there is not objective evidence to support your claims that your deity exists. You have not shown that I am wrong, and the lack of evidence is pro forma proof that there is no evidence.

            I have even told you how to show that I am wrong, and you refuse to do so.

            “”complete lack of objective evidence supporting your assertion that your deity exists” …… is that a scientific or theological statement ”

            A factual statement. “Theological” translates to a matter or opinion, i.e. subjective, since any theological “evidence” only applies to those who believe that the supposed “evidence” proves anything. For those that do not believe as you do, it does not prove anything. That means that your imaginary “proof” is non-existent to most Christians, as well as pretty much everyone else in the world besides you.

            “i cannot show you what you CLEARLY cannot see”

            Probably because I am not delusional and think that I can see things that are clearly not there. I see that the emperor is naked, and I am willing to say so. You see what does not exist, and claims that it does. I cannot see what you imagine.

            Then again, if you actually did have objective evidence to support your wild claims, you would probably present it rather than run away every time.

            “and the REST OF US DO”

            So what? Just because a bunch of you are delusional and think that your imaginations are reality, or that other people are beholden to your beliefs does not change the fact that you have nothing objective to support your claims.

            “we are not moved by YOUR BLINDNESS”

            Actually, it would be more accurate to state that you are not moved to cast off your fear and blindness. You are the one that refuses to see reality, not me. I stand in the light of the real world, and I do not let myself be blinded by the imaginings, intolerance, ignorance, and fear of others. I am not bound by the dark chains that you wear willingly. I got rid of them decades ago, when I started growing up.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            God is not a claim …….your denial of God is …. because the presupposition to YOUR claim is that He is …. you cannot make any claim without ACKNOWLEDGING Him ….. and it is the A-Theist that is making the claim …… you cannot be shown what you already know …. and you then deny what you already know for your preformed conclusion ….. you cannot deny God without acknowledging His existence ……..a positive assertion of negative knowledge is a claim that is illogical and faulty on it face …..

          • MarkSebree

            “God is not a claim”

            Actually, it is.

            “your denial of God is”

            Incomplete sentence. Your statement is senseless.

            My statement is a fact.

            “because the presupposition to YOUR claim is that He is”

            Incomplete sentence and senseless. Actually, the default of your claim is that your deity does not exist unless and until you can provide objective evidence that it does. And that is evidence that does not require the belief in your deity to be accepted.

            “and it is the A-Theist that is making the claim”

            Actually, I am not an atheist. (There is no hyphen in the word.) And my religious beliefs do not matter. YOU are the one that is making the claim that your deity exists, so you have to be the one that supports that claim.

            “you cannot be shown what you already know”

            Actually, I can. However, you are showing that you do not have anything to support your claims, which means that there is no reason why anyone should accept them.

            “and you then deny what you already know for your preformed conclusion”

            No, I have not. That is your twisted and biased reasoning. I do not know that your deity exists because you have not presented any objective evidence that it does. All you are doing is chasing logical fallacies of your own devising.

            “you cannot deny God without acknowledging His existence”

            Yes, I can. I have done so many times already in this threat. Just as I can deny the existence of Santa Clause, unicorns, the Easter Bunny, leprechauns, and all other many of magical creatures.

            “a positive assertion of negative knowledge is a claim that is illogical and faulty on it face”

            And again you have shown that you do not understand logic, or how to defend your arguments against someone intelligent, educated, and who does not believe as you do. A positive assertion of negative knowledge happens all the time, at least among people who are honest. For example, the factual statement “I do not understand the mathematics of quantum physics” is an example of a positive assertion of negative knowledge, or in layman terms, a statement that I do not know something.

            However, the original statement was not of “negative knowledge”, but rather a positive statement of the existence of an empty set, which is not the same thing. The set containing the sum total of the objective evidence of the existence of any deity is empty. Nobody, including you, have provided anything to put into that set.

            Perhaps you should actually study logic before trying to engage in logical arguments, because all you have are logical fallacies.

  • mikegillespie

    Gee, what a shock.

  • Susan Perelka

    Abba Father, Shine Your light on planned parenthood, so everyone across this nation can see what is really there. Expose the things they are hiding. Let people clearly see their true purposes. Bring what is in the dark, out into the light. Father, I pray for the individuals who are trapped in their sin. Have mercy on them and show them the condition of their hearts. Show them how they can be set free through Jesus. Lord, speak to the woman contemplating abortion, council them, help them. Help those who are tormented, who have already had one, show them that they can be healed by Jesus. Thank You Father for the privilege to stand before Your Throne of Grace. Thank You for our Lord Jesus Christ. AMEN

    • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

      Dear Abba Father I come to You in agreement with his prayer. And I add, open eyes so they will see, open ears so they will hear, open minds and help them to understand, open heart so they can receive the truth.
      In Jesus Name.

      • Susan Perelka

        Amen, set them free Lord Jesus!

        • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥


  • FFRF and Planned Murderhood are both in the same business. Serving Satan; the one who comes to steal, kill and destroy.

    • Susan Perelka

      But Praise God, greater is He Who is in us, than he who is in the world. I can not wait until I see the devil cast into that pit, PARTY!!!! Come Lord Jesus! Some will come out of that darkness, some will see the light, and when we stand together before the LORD it will be a multitude praising Jesus!

    • Caleb Weddle

      No, Satan has nothing to do with this. There is no mention of Satan on either the FFRF or Planned Parenthood websites.

  • Susan Perelka

    She thinks the bible damages woman. Not this one! For 38 years I was in the world and was damaged. The bible healed me AND I like the teachings about how men and woman are different. It’s when I embraced Gods description of who I am, that I was finally set free, no more trying to be something I am not. All the world’s ideology did was exhaust me. Woman are woman and men are men and that is ok. God made us different and that is ok. When you start to embrace the role He designed you to be, it doesn’t damage you, it frees you. Anything else is a lie from satan that ensnares you and exhausts you. I am getting real tired of this twisted feminist movement, WE ARE NOT MEN! We are woman and stop trying to tell us otherwise.

    • Robin Egg

      What a wonderful testimony Susan!! God bless you and thanks for sharing this with us. You are a precious mother to be celebrated.

      • Susan Perelka

        Thank you for your kinds words. I celebrate that God wrote on my conscience that it was murder. That He honored my decision to keep my child by providing ways to enable us to care for him. I look back now and see how God had mercy on me and helped me through it all. I praise Him for His patience with me, that He showed me Who He is, Who Jesus is. I am truly grateful that He is a merciful God and I love Him with all my heart because He first loved me. Amazing Grace! The devil is a giant liar and only seeks to hurt people, BUT GOD seeks to heal them.

  • strawnman

    Birds of a feather…

  • Amos Moses – He>i

    Woman Celebrated For Killing 3.5 Million People
    May 1, 2018

    • MarkSebree

      Only in your imagination. Not in reality.

  • Croquet_Player

    I suspect people forget, as so many do, that the aim of planned parenthood
    is no abortions. It’s right there in the name. “Planned Parenthood”.
    It’s not “Planned Abortions”. Abortion is the very last resort. Ideally, people will delay sex until they are ready to marry and have
    children (or not). No one is eagerly looking forward to young women (and
    the men who impregnated them, and are equally responsible) having
    surgeries.The aim is to promote responsible, ethical sexual behavior between consenting adults.

    The ideal is to remain a virgin until you marry your beloved. This is a wonderful, beautiful ideal. Alas, many fall short of this perfection. So we must give them the tools to avoid pregnancy and STD transmission. Apparently just shaming them into oblivion doesn’t work, but we still keep trying it. Comprehensive sex and health education DOES work. Abortion, teen pregnancy, and STD rates have fallen across the board, EXCEPT for the states which exclusively promote “Abstinence Only”.

    I don’t mind parents teaching their children only what they want to teach them. That’s their right, and I’m all for it. But we’re all, as a nation, expected to cope with teen parents who have to drop out of school , older families who have a sudden unwanted pregnancy, and so forth. We may shame these people all we like. But there is no amount of shaming that will buy a single diaper. So we should really stop doing that to people, many of whom, our neighbors, friends, and family, already feel pretty ashamed to begin with.

    • Susan Perelka

      I still will call it what it is, abortion is “killing” an innocent. The shedding of innocent blood. That child has a right to live, I don’t want to participate in this at all, not even with my tax dollars. Leave us out of it, let planned parenthood get their money elsewhere, we are being forced to participate and that is not right, where is our right to choose?

    • Amos Moses – He>i

      “I suspect people forget, as so many do, that the aim of planned parenthood
      is no abortions. It’s right there in the name. “Planned Parenthood”. ”

      “Planned Murder” INC. is all it is ………. no other HONEST way to say it …… putting a lie to it is still just another LIE ……..

      • Caleb Weddle

        Do you oppose Planned Parenthood’s desire to promote birth control?

        • Amos Moses – He>i

          they promote birth control through one means only …. the murder of children …… and it is racist in its implementation ……… do you support racism and the killing of black children …. or ANY children …………..

          • Caleb Weddle

            They do not.

          • MarkSebree

            As usual, you are ignorant of the subjects you write about. Planned Parenthood advice and services include sex education, IUDs, long acting birth control, hormonal birth control, as well as many other services. These other services include neo-natal checkups, well-baby checkups, referrals for mammograms if they cannot perform the procedures themselves, and other services.

            Despite your delusions and the lies of the anti-choice pundits and crowds, abortion is not a means of birth control. What’s more, Planned Parenthood is not racist in its organization. They specialize in serving women in under-represented, economically depressed areas where the women have fewer options. Because of the economic realities our country, this unfortunately means that most of their customers are young and/or brown. Just because most of there clients and patients are brown does not make them racist, especially when those same people would be hard pressed to find the same services otherwise.

            And again, despite your lies and the lies of anti-choice pundits, Planned Parenthood does not kill children of ANY race.

    • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

      It has “nothing” to do with Planning a pregnancy. ” Nothing” to do with helping women to plan a pregnancy, It is all about ending pregnancies by killing the unborn who are “unplanned and unwanted”.

    • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

      Dear Abba Father I seek You to help “Croquet_Player” to understand the truth about Planned Parenthood and what they do to the unborn humans who are unplanned and unwanted. How they kill these humans for money.
      In Jesus Name Amen.

      • Caleb Weddle

        I think Croquet_Player understands things very well already.

        • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

          Oh it;s your turn now?

          • Caleb Weddle

            Well what are you praying that she understand? Planned Parenthood claim they don’t perform abortions and here you are insisting they do.

      • Susan Perelka

        Abba Father, I agree with this prayer. In the name of Jesus I come against the deceiving spirits influencing the thoughts of this man. LORD, give Him a glimpse of Jesus Christ. Let him see Your truth clearly. Greater is He Who is in us, than he who is in the world. We overcome by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of our testimony. Thank you Father for the mercy You show mankind. Thank you Father for Your forgiveness. Forgive this man, he doesn’t know what he is doing. Open his blind eyes and deaf ears in Jesus name. We hope that he will choose the amazing gift You are offering him through Jesus Christ so that he can have peace with You, his Creator. Thank You LORD. I ask this through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. AMEN

        • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥


      • Croquet_Player

        We may disagree on matters of policy, but I think your prayer was very well meant, and I’d like to thank you most sincerely for so kindly thinking of me.

        • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

          Thank you 🙂

          • Croquet_Player

            You’re most welcome indeed, and I thank you again, for your kindness and civility. We may all disagree, on so many matters, but I think reasonable, calm discussions can and should be had by people of good will. No one’s minds might be changed, and that’s fine. But I hope we may each express our own views without descending into name calling and ugliness. You have shown the way forward, which is to be highly commended. I offer my sincere and very best wishes to you and yours for great and continued health and happiness!

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            🙂 Again I thank you. I wish you and your family the best health and happiness as well. I will keep you in my prayer. Have a great weekend! 🙂

    • Feces in a silver bowl is still feces in a silver bowl. PP murders babies and there is no other way to say it and there is no justifying it.

      • Caleb Weddle

        Planned Parenthood does the opposite of what you say. They promote birth control, but those promoting “abstinence” which is unrealistic and shown not to work, get the backing of many religious people. Deal with the issue at its source and there will be fewer unwanted pregnancies.

        • The issue at it’s source you say?………You mean things like a lack of morality, common sense and personal responsibility? No matter what else you claim they do….THEY MURDER BABIES!!!

          • Caleb Weddle

            From Wikipedia:

            “Planned Parenthood has consistently maintained that federal money received by Planned Parenthood is not used to fund abortion services, but pro-life activists have argued that the federal funding frees up other resources that are, in turn, used to provide abortions.”

            Sounds like there are two sides to thus story. Do you oppose their promoting of birth control?

          • From God:

            Proverbs 6:12-19 New King James Version (NKJV)
            The Wicked Man
            A worthless person, a wicked man,
            Walks with a perverse mouth;
            He winks with his eyes,
            He shuffles his feet,
            He points with his fingers;
            Perversity is in his heart,
            He devises evil continually,
            He sows discord.
            Therefore his calamity shall come suddenly;
            Suddenly he shall be broken without remedy.
            These six things the Lord hates,
            Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
            A proud look,
            A lying tongue,
            Hands that shed innocent blood,
            A heart that devises wicked plans,
            Feet that are swift in running to evil,
            A false witness who speaks lies,
            And one who sows discord among brethren.

          • Caleb Weddle

            And who is God talking about, in your example?

          • Anyone who does these things.

          • MarkSebree

            Ah, so you mean like the far right pundits, evangelical dominionists, and anti-choice activists. They certainly do many of those things regularly. Some even so far as the murder of people who work to help and treat the poor and disadvantaged, mostly women.

          • Sorry but your antichrist DNC talking points are irrelevant to this conversation.

          • MarkSebree

            So, you do not like the truth. The Dominionists and theocratic evangelicals are the ones that are working to plunge this world into the abyss and working to destroy it. They are the ones that welcome the destruction of the ideals in which the USA was built, and the destruction of this country.

            My statement remains relevant to the conversation because it is on topic and relevant to the post I was replying to. The proverbs from your book of mythology describes very well far right wing pundits, dominionists, and anti-choice activists.

          • You could not be more wrong and It is not my book of mythology it is The Holy Word of God.

          • MarkSebree

            “You could not be more wrong”

            Well, given that I am completely correct, I have nothing to worry about.

            “It is not my book of mythology”

            It certainly fits the definition of a book of mythology.

            I had assumed that you owned a copy of the book which contains your mythology. If yo want to get technical, then it is the mythology around which you built your version of your belief system.

            ” it is The Holy Word of God.”

            Correction, it is your mythology containing the Bronze Age beliefs about your deity, around which you have built your version of your beliefs, and which apply to nobody else at all.

          • Another nonbeliever who of course is an expert on God and His Word.

            Amazing for all the wrong reasons.

          • Susan Perelka

            The Lord said they would mock us. So, let them mock. Just keep telling them the real issue, their true standing with God. The rest of the stuff they babble about is to avoid talking about that. Turn the conversation back to the most important issue, the state of their soul. If they don’t want to discuss that and are just here to pick a fight, then ignore them. They are just contentious and thrive off of strife. Seek peace whenever it is in our power to do so, but if peace is not what they want, then just don’t respond to them, pray for them, and leave it to God.

          • MarkSebree

            “Another nonbeliever who of course is an expert on God and His Word.”

            You have no idea of my background, nor how well I know your mythology. It is a fact that in the USA, the most common reason that people become atheists and agnostics is that they read the Bible. Same reason that many people leave Christianity for other religions.

            And here is a little tidbit for you as well. Dan Baker, the co-president of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, is an ordained Minister. Don’t believe me? Check his background for yourself, including his sworn affidavit for the lawsuit concerning the fact that the Chaplain of the House denied him the right to give an invocation to the House when he meant even more stringent requirements than others who had done so.

            “Amazing for all the wrong reasons.”

            You mean countering your delusions and willful blindness is wrong? I thought that telling you the truth would be the right thing to do.

          • God is not mythology be it mine or anyone else.

          • MarkSebree

            “God is not mythology be it mine or anyone else.”

            You might want to check the definitions of what you are trying to defend. I never stated that your deity was a mythology, I said that your religious book was. Your deity is a myth.

            Definitions are from Dictionary dot com:

            a traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, especially one that is concerned with deities or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature.

            myths collectively.

            From Merriam-Webster dot com:

            a usually traditional story of ostensibly historical events that serves to unfold part of the world view of a people or explain a practice, belief, or natural phenomenon

            a body of myths: such as the myths dealing with the gods, demigods, and legendary heroes of a particular people

            Your deity is a myth, your religious book is a mythology, and I state that they are because they fit the definitions perfectly.

          • Susan Perelka


          • Susan Perelka

            God shows no partiality. EACH person will stand before Him and give an account of what THEY did. News flash, not everyone who claims to be christian really is, that is just a fact. God knows they are play actors, nobody is capable of fooling God Almighty. NOBODY. He knows the thoughts, motives, and intentions of every heart, even yours.

          • MarkSebree

            “God shows no partiality.”

            Deities cannot show anything since they only exist in fiction and the imaginations of their followers.

            “EACH person will stand before Him and give an account of what THEY did.”

            Unlikely, since one cannot “stand before” an imaginary being.

            ” News flash, not everyone who claims to be christian really is, that is just a fact. God knows they are play actors”

            Which is bad news for far right pundits, evangelical christians, dominionists, anti-choice activists, and others of that it. Or would be in your imaginary being actually existed.

            “nobody is capable of fooling God Almighty.”

            However, its followers are another story. Many of the far right variety have been fooled by the con men that preach to them. And since the deity does not exist outside the imagination of the person imagining it, that means that your deity can be fooled since you can be fooled.

            ” He knows the thoughts, motives, and intentions of every heart, even yours.”

            If you do not know my thoughts, motives, or intentions, and you don’t, then your deity cannot know them.

            “, I ask that you would pierce Marks heart with Your Word. ”

            Happened many years ago. That is why I do not follow such a hateful and unappealing belief system.

            “Have mercy on him and show him where satan has lied to him.”

            Your deity is not really capable of mercy. And your other deity is as much a figment of your imagination of the one that you are talking to yourself to.

            “Reveal Your Beloved Son to him.”

            And save me from his supposed followers.

            ” Thank You LORD for Your loving-kindness, mercy, and compassion.”

            Your deity is not known for those things. Your deity is better known for being intolerant, ignorant, racists, abusive, vengeful, jealous, hateful, genocidal, murderous, misogynistic, closed-minded, war-like, and a host of other ills.

            I hold myself to a far, far higher standard than your imaginary friend is capable of.

            Besides, your entire post was nothing but logical fallacies, mostly lame attempts at appeals to belief and appeals to fear. Those do not work on me. After all the fallacies have been removed, you said nothing of substance or relevance. You did nothing to support or defend your position.

          • Susan Perelka

            I defended my position in Christ Jesus.

            I will be praying for you, that God will open Your eyes to His truth.

            You obviously have made your choice. But God is merciful, you still have time to change your mind. But once you take your last breath, the period of Gods grace is over. You will be judged for your rebellion against God and the fact you rejected His merciful offer through Jesus. Your fate will be sealed for eternity, so I beg you to ponder these things. We are trying to warn you, and tell you God’s provision.

            Your choice will carry eternal consequences.

            And the fake christians will be very surprised also, when God calls it out openly and they aren’t under His grace, but His condemnation.

            You never knew the real God, if you did, you would be bowing before Him in gratitude. Hate is in your heart, and it will consume you.

          • MarkSebree

            “I defended my position in Christ Jesus. ”

            ” You came to a christian website, so don’t be surprised you get a biblical answer to life’s questions.”

            I am not asking for answers to life’s questions, mainly because I am not interested in your personal, narrow minded opinions on what the supposed answers are.

            “God is smarter than any of us.”

            Impossible, since a non-existent being cannot be smarter than real people.

            “I will be praying for you, that God will open Your eyes to His truth.”

            My eyes opened to the truth decades ago. You imaginary friend had nothing to do with it.

            “You obviously have made your choice. ”

            And I choice to stand on my own two feet, not give into fear of the unknown, and face reality.

            ” BUT GOD is merciful,”

            Not really according to your mythology.

            ” you still have time to change your mind.”

            Sorry, but I am not interested in living in a fantasy.

            ” But once you take your last breath, the period of Gods grace is over.”

            “Your choice will carry eternal consequences.”

            No, they do not. Your mythology and beliefs do not apply to anyone except you.

            “Hate is in your heart, and it will consume you.”

            No, I leave the hatred to the followers of your mythology. That hatred and intolerance is one of the things that turns me off to it.

            “If you ever decide you want to really know Him, all you have to do is ask Him yourself, in prayer. No need for a human intercessor.”

            I am not interested in fooling myself, and deluding myself into thinking that internal conversations have an external source.

            Again, all you have are logical fallacies. You have appeals to belief and appeals to fear, and neither work on me. After removing all the fallacies, you are left with nothing whatsoever. Your post is empty of substance, logical, reason, or facts. It is all relevant opinions, oppressive beliefs, fear, and ignorance.

            Your post actually supports many of the things I have been saying about your deity as well. Hateful, oppressive, petty, vindictive, abusive, and other negative traits. There is no worthwhile reason why any sane person would want to follow such an evil deity.

          • Caleb Weddle

            And they maintain that they don’t.

          • MarkSebree

            Sounds like many evangelical pundits and far right religious people, as well and many anti-choice activists. All of them certainly have proud looks, lying tongues, are false witnesses who speak lies, sow discord, and run towards evil. Wicked plans and the shedding of innocent blood also tends to be a speciality of theirs, although fewer followers actively engage in it.

          • Susan Perelka

            For those who have ears to hear, let them hear what the Spirit has to say. AMEN

          • Amen.

      • Croquet_Player

        We may disagree on abortion, and that’s fine. However it is simply a fact that Planned Parenthood offers free or low cost birth control, and factual information on how to avoid STD transmission, and get tested and stop spreading them, or avoid a pregnancy, Or intend a pregnancy. You may forget, some people would like to become pregnant, or are happy that they are, and would like straightforward information about how to have a healthy pregnancy and a healthy and supportive home situation in which to do so.

        Now, we may disagree on abortion all you like as I said. But if you remove local free or low cost clinics which provide help, then we must go back to the fifties, when birth control was incredibly difficult to procure, and abortion impossible. Consider my friend’s mother’s college roommate’s choice of action. She booked a hotel room in the best spot in town, and threw herself out a window at 19. She was pregnant, the shame was too much to bear, and the better option was to plummet 20 stories to her death. It’s a wonder she didn’t hit anyone on the ground, which would have killed them too. Birth control should be plentiful. Abortion should be rare. Abortion rates have fallen dramatically – as much as 40% in two years – see Colorado – in every state where there is free birth control. Facts and statistics matter. If you’re against abortion, fine. Then you should be wildly in favor of free birth control too.

        • There are alternatives to free or low cost services for women’s health care already available and even if that were not the case there is no moral high ground that PP or anyone that supports PP can stand on because of the millions of babies that have been murdered by them.

          • Susan Perelka

            I agree with you Doug, there are others who give those services and don’t perform abortions. We are not against woman’s healthcare. We object to the abortions that PP has attached to it.

  • Lydia Church

    Birds of an evil feather flock together!
    Two bedfellows eager to conspire…

  • Had the 18th-century constitutional framers (like their 17th-century Christian Colonial forbears) established government and society upon Yahweh’s immutable/unchanging moral law (including the First Commandment, the Sixth Commandment, and Exodus 21:22-3), neither the Freedom From Religion Foundation nor Planned Parenthood would exist today.

    And yet, tragically, today’s Christians and Patriots are the greatest defenders of the founding fathers’ sedition against Yahweh as sovereign and thus His law as supreme, making themselves complicit in the promotion of atheism and Planned Parenthood’s slaughter of in utero infants.

    For more on how Yahweh’s triune moral law applies and should be implemented today, see free online book “Law and Kingdom: Their Relevance Under the New Covenant.” Click on my name, then our website. Go to our Online Books page and scroll down to title.

    Then “A Biblical Constitution: A Scriptural Replacement for Secular Government.”

    Find out how much you REALLY know about the Constitution as compared to the Bible. Take our 10-question Constitution Survey in the right-hand sidebar and receive a complimentary copy of a book that EXAMINES the Constitution by the Bible.

  • Drake

    The blind want the seeing to put out their eyes, and they call that ‘moving society forward’.

  • [FFRF] grew out of the reproductive rights movement after the Gaylors saw legislative hearings packed with Catholic nuns, priests and schoolchildren and concluded religion was the root of women’s inequality,” the publication Isthmus once noted.

    If you think deeply about it, organized religion (especially the three Abrahamic religions) IS a major cause of female inequality. But the bulk of religious laws are merely a reflection of male prejudices, desires and pre-science imaginations designed to sustain domination at all levels of society–an intellectualized might-makes-right narrative.

    The current manifestation of this is the evangelicals’ fang and claw fight against women’s right to manage their own reproductive lives.

    Yet any laws that are designed to thwart women’s rights to their own bodies and place the government in between a woman and her doctor flies directly in the face of the Constitution’s Establishment Clause. They are, in fact, religious laws forbidden by the Constitution.

    Let Christians believe and worship as they desire, but leave the lives of others alone. Women have every right to run their lives as have men. That is called FREEDOM. It is called EQUAL RIGHTS.

    Religious laws are religious anti-freedom and tyranny–shades of The Handmaid’s Tale.

    • LynnRH

      A true Christian will fight for the rights of unborn children just like they would for a child who is born. An unborn baby is not a “choice” it is a human being. It’s only the right thing to do for those who are defenseless. I would fight for the rights of animals too. I would fight against abuse to the defenseless.

      • An unborn baby is not a “choice” it is a human being. It’s only the right thing to do for those who are defenseless.

        I understand your position and I do sympathize, but, again, to use the government to force the nation to abide by your religious beliefs is unconstitutional.

        The Christian community has a wide spectrum of views on just when a fetus or a zygote becomes a baby. Some would forbid contraceptives to prevent pregnancy and/or abortion for any reason, even to the point of having the government force a woman to carry a dead fetus to term.

        Others would allow such an abortion (which, factually, it has actually self-aborted) but then would keep women captive of the State to force full term in cases of pregnancy from rape, incest, or even to save the life of the mother, saying that whatever happens is God’s will.

        This, of course, is the argument given by parents who refuse medical treatment for a sick child and the result is death from a curable ailment.

        So, yes, wherever you fall in this spectrum, it is a religious belief and laws to force it on the nation are unconstitutional.

        • LynnRH

          I know what the laws are concerning the above issues. I’m just saying those laws are wrong because God is right. So where ever I can fight against the law to try to change it I will be. And that is MY right.

          • MarkSebree

            What makes you think that your interpretation of what you think your religion states should apply to anyone else besides you? For that matter, if you think that your opinions on what your religion states should apply to other people, then what makes you think that other people’s opinions on what their religions state should not be equally applied to you? After all, the 14th Amendment includes the Equal Rights and Equal Protection Clauses, and combined with the First Amendment’s Establishment Clause, that means that the government cannot favor any religion over other religions, or religion over non-religion.

          • Well said and spot on!

          • Of course it is your right. I’ve said that. But then, American Muslims have objections to some laws as well. Would you want them dictating to you how you should live? You don’t have to answer because I certain that you would not. That is why we have the Establishment Clause. It places Christianity and all other religions on a level playing field by forbidding religion based laws.

            Most of our more astute founders, especially Jefferson and Madison, knew very will the dangers of government by religious certitude. They aim was to codify the right of every individual citizen to his personal religious views in matters of religion–no matter what philosophy, theological belief, or how deeply felt.

            The danger in voting only on religious issues is that economics is ignored, which hurts all workers. It opens one wide to be deceived or harnessed by the emotional rhetoric of self-serving politicians. That is why the income gap between the wealthy and the working class is continue to expand, enriching those politicians and the already wealthy while the workers get a pittance for their labor. This is the very reason Republicans virtually always win in the fundamentalist community.

          • Susan Perelka

            Well said.

    • Murdering a baby has nothing to do with “reproductive rights”.

      • That is your RELIGIOUS belief, not fact. And you have a right to believe it, but you have no right to impose your religious belief on women. That is law. A zygote is not a baby. An early term fetus is not a baby. You could reasonably argue that the fetus is a baby around the beginning of the 3rd trimester as the nervous system begins to function.

        I’m personally opposed to abortion after the end of the second trimester except in some circumstances such as saving the life of the mother (her choice, not yours or mine or the government’s). However, my opposition in no way will interfere with the decisions of a woman and her doctor. Women are free agents and should be allowed to make their own decisions.

        I know that sounds cold to you, but then, so is tearing families apart as well as deporting the children of undocumented aliens who have never known any other country (effectively ending their lives as they knew it). Of course, they are not fetuses, so they are throwaways, right? Too, sending refugees back to a life-threatening situation is immoral.

        Hating people because of their religion or lack thereof is immoral. Denying some citizens their equal rights is immoral. Capital punishment is immoral. Destroying consumer protections is immoral.

        And to deny innocent PEOPLE, who become victims of mass shootings, the right to life is a VICIOUS injustice and deeply immoral. But, apparently, to most of the “right-to-life” fundamentalists, those deaths have nothing to do with their right to unfettered access to firearms, right?

        • Once again your idea of what is HUMAN LIFE is skewed and you are wrong.

          • Well now, that argument will certainly hold up in court. Of course my arguments will never change your mind. Fortunately, we do live in a secular society under a secular Constitution.

            The major function of Planned Parenthood, btw, is to provide healthcare for low income women. Want to take that away from them and allow them no prenatal care at all?

            But, I’m curious about just how far your empathy for innocent children and adults goes.

            What would you do about gun control as an effort to prevent or at least protect children from getting cut down in schools and mass shootings in general?

            Are you in favor of national gun control laws to prevent firearms to be sold over the Internet? How about banning all semiautomatic rifles? How about comprehensive background checks to include mental health issues in the history of the potential purchaser and his/her family?

            My favorite: How about requiring all firearms to be treated like vehicles–assigned a title and registration that function exactly like that of an automobile title? All sales and purchases would be documented into a nationwide database, enforcing accountability. All purchasers would still have to qualify to own a non-automatic/semiautomatic firearm via a comprehensive background check.

          • Bloviating about guns, empathy for women and children and all the wonderful things that an outfit that murders babies does amounts to nothing more than a red herring in a conversation that is about abortion which has caused the murder of 60 MILLION BABIES AND COUNTING SINCE 1973.

          • Red herring? It is already quite clear that you consider a woman’s fertilized egg a human being. I accept that that is your opinion. I accepted that you believe all zygotes and fetuses are human beings and I don’t. Therefore, that argument was concluded as an impasse.

            Now, I’m your testing your depth of hypocrisy in matters of murder. You CLAIM to be so Godly adamant about innocent deaths in matters of abortion and fume about the lack of regulations preventing abortion (for any reason?), yet you dodge the issue of what causes the greatest number of people to be killed in mass shootings. To you, murdered children are no more than a “red herring” dodge from what you believe to be death of pre-viable children via abortion.

            I don’t believe as you believe on what constitutes a human being. But I want LIVE and INNOCENT people to have the right to life. Apparently, you do not. To fight against sensible gun control nationwide as a means to deny them from people who should not have them, is deeply immoral and in fact contributes to the deaths of innocent children and adults.

            Every member of the NRA is complicit in the murder of children because they are supportive of the organization that is against keeping guns out of the hands of people who should not have them.

            So your basic argument is that protect unborn “babies” at all costs, but after they are born, they are on their own? Are you a member of the NRA?

          • You ascribe things to me that are not true and it is not up to you to test me about anything. Ask me a straight forward question on point and on topic and I will give you an honest direct answer.

          • Any question is allowed in a civil debate. The person losing a debate is the person who refuses to answer questions. You are so adamant about DEATHS of what you believe to be unborn babies. I’ve accepted that you believe it and there is no changing your mind. Therefore, I’m wondering about your empathy for LIVE innocent children and adults. That’s fair in any debate.

            Direct questions I’ve asked:

            1. Are you as adamant about the lives of walking, talking children or are they on their own, subject to whatever dangers that might arise?

            2. Are you a member or supporter of the NRA?

          • Bob Johnson

            And gun owners be required to carry liability insurance, thus we achieve market-based cost of ownership.

            (Or course if you guns are kept art the range or duck club, under lock and key the rates will be very low.)

          • Good idea! I’ll include the insurance factor in my wish list. I like your second idea even more, but that would be the least likely, at least within the next millennium.

          • Susan Perelka

            Guns don’t kill, the people behind the gun is doing the killing. It’s a wicked heart that kills and it will use any means to accomplish it.

          • MarkSebree

            “Guns don’t kill, the people behind the gun is doing the killing.”

            Guns just enable killing people faster and more indiscriminately. However, we cannot do anything to the people until after they commit a crime. We can, however, do something to make guns less lethal (ban high capacity magazines, devices like bump stocks, and assault weapons that have no other practical use), as well as make it more difficult for people to purchase and own large numbers of weapons (required universal background checks, licensing, registration, and other measures). This will not get rid of all guns since it does not significant restrict revolvers and semi-automatic handguns, which can be for personal defense, or bolt action rifles, most shot guns, and many semi-automatic rifles, which can be used for legal hunting.

            “It’s a wicked heart that kills and it will use any means to accomplish it.”

            That does not mean that we have to make it easy for them to kill.

          • Susan Perelka

            That is why we preach the gospel. For those who truly accept Jesus, He transforms their heart, love becomes the center.

          • MarkSebree

            “That is why we preach the gospel.”

            To create a fertile ground for hatred and intolerance?

            ” For those who truly accept Jesus, He transforms their heart, love becomes the center.”

            Sorry, but neither your mythology not objective evidence support you. Most of the mass shooting and terrorist attacks in the USA over the last few years have been by young, evangelical christian, white males. Men that were overly religious, and thought that they were following your book of mythology.

            Countries where people are not very religious, like Sweden, Norway, Finland, and Japan, have very, very low crime rates, very very low violent crime rates, very high standards of living, better equality, better education, and far more peaceful society.

          • Ever heard of a drive-by knifing? How about a sniper in a hotel room with a knife stabbing dozens of people in a stadium below? Knifing dozens of kids in a school before being stopped or knifing himself?

            Indeed, a gun, left alone, does not kill. It REQUIRES a human to use it. Yet you are not willing to take out the angry/demented human factor even to prevent or even discourage the mass murder of CHILDREN! I consider that to be depravity.

          • Susan Perelka

            But what about the one who’s home is being broken into by one of those depraved human beings with an illegally obtained gun. They are not allowed to protect themselves because they weren’t allowed to own a gun, and since they were a law abiding citizen, they didn’t have one. I find that a very unloving thing to do to them. People have been stabbed in mass, and cars and airplanes have killed them in mass. I guess we should ban all of them too. Where does it end.

            I consider abortion to be the mass murder of children, should the abortion doctor be taken out?

            The answer to mans depraved heart is JESUS!!! He can transform a heart.

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥


          • But what about the one who’s home is being broken into by one of those depraved human beings with an illegally obtained gun.

            If guns were not so readily available and easy to get, there would be far fewer guns in the hands of criminals. Of course, conservatives are not willing even to consider that. That’s Jesus in their hearts?

            No one NEEDS an automatic or semiautomatic high-powered rifle. A lot fewer kids would meet an early death were they not available. But conservatives are not willing to save the lives of children. That’s Jesus in their hearts?

            They are not allowed to protect themselves because they weren’t allowed to own a gun . . .

            It’s truly frustrating when conservatives constantly make that false argument. Few, if any, people are calling for a ban on all guns. NO ONE IS MAKING THAT ARGUMENT! We want reasonable national laws. But you have Jesus in your heart, so you do not want reasonable national laws to help save the lives of children. I’m sure Jesus would approve.

            The answer to mans depraved heart is JESUS!!! He can transform a heart.

            No, the “answer,” in the short term, is nationwide gun laws that eliminate weapons of mass death. Ban the sales of weapons over the Internet and require a registration and title to be assigned to every gun for traceability and responsibility.

            In the long run, better funding for public schools–pay teachers well for molding the intellect of your children. Conservatives defend the multimillion dollar yearly salaries and bonuses for CEOs by saying that they have to pay it to get the best and brightest CEOs. Why not apply that same argument to teachers? But, no. In a bad economy, education is the thing to cut, according to conservatives.

            Upgrade all schools. Make college tuition free. Make a real war on poverty by funding it on a real war footing. Upgrade all schools, renovate all poor neighborhoods, raise the minimum wage to a living wage, provide free psychological counseling in all schools, remove corporate/private money from politics (ban corporate lobbying [political bribery]), scrap the Electoral College and institute public campaign funding.

            Take away poverty and that, alone, will go a long way in significantly reducing the murder rate. Take away the weapons of mass murder and that will save many innocent lives.

            But of course, I suppose none of that is what Jesus would do.

          • As I was posting my response to you, I turned on the news and became instantly angry! Congratulations! Another win for the NRA and all anti-gun regulation supporters of the terrorist organization, the National Rifle Association. Another mass student killing, this time in Texas. More killings, more guns sold, more profit made.

            Now, go hug and kiss your gun.

        • Susan Perelka

          There is a law that is above mans law. You will stand before Him (Jesus) one day, how will He judge you?

          • MarkSebree

            “There is a law that is above mans law.”

            No, there is not. What you claim as being “law above mans [sic] law” is nothing more than Bronze Age laws of men trying to control mostly ignorant and uneducated followers, and keep them from listening to other groups of people. They were trying to keep their cult together, which is why they were against their followers listening to anyone who did not follow these men.

            “You will stand before Him (Jesus) one day, how will He judge you?”

            Even assuming that your Jesus character ever existed, he died millennium ago. Nobody can stand before another person’s imagination.

          • Susan Perelka

            Yes, there is, the Creator gets the right to make the laws, He made it all. Just because you deny Him, doesn’t make Him not real. You will find out one day for sure, when you take your last breath. Big gamble you’re taking, what if you are wrong? Once you die, your fate is sealed. The chance to accept Jesus is now. We are trying to keep you from making a mistake you will regret for eternity. Can’t say you were never warned.

            Jesus rose from the dead and is alive! He is not dead.

          • MarkSebree

            “Yes, there is, ”

            No, there is not.

            “the Creator gets the right to make the laws, ”

            There is nothing to suggest that any such entity exists. There is no reason to. Deities are things that men made up because their did not know how the world worked or where it or they came from. Judaism, and thus Christianity, borrows heavily from Babylonian mythology for example.

            “Jesus rose from the dead and is alive! He is not dead.”

            And yet there is no authoritative record of him anywhere. There is not even any reason to think that he ever existed.

            “Why do you come to a christian website, expecting us to give you a secular answer?”

            I don’t. I am fighting the oppression that religion represents, the drive towards a theocracy that so many dominionists and evangelicals are trying to establish, and defending this country from domestic enemies by calling them on their ignorance, their intolerance, and the effects of their positions.

            Perhaps you should ask yourself why your think that everyone is subject to your beliefs? Then ask yourself, given the 14th Amendment’s Equal Rights and Equal Protection Clauses, as well as the Freedom of Religion clause in the First Amendment, why you should not be just as subject to their beliefs, and be condemned to the hells of their religions.

            You keep trying in vain to scare me with your talk of when I die, something that I do not particularly fear. You keep trying to scare me with your talks of judgement according to your beliefs before your deity. Yet you NEVER consider the question of what if you are wrong. You NEVER consider the question of what if you are following the wrong religion and the wrong deity. What if your constant harping on your beliefs and your intolerance is see poorly in his/hers/its/their eyes?

          • Bob Johnson

            “what if you are wrong?”

            Pascals Wager – What is it turns out to be Odin or Kali? How do know that is not you that is being deceived?

          • There is a law that is above mans law. You will stand before Him (Jesus) one day, how will He judge you?

            That is what I was taught to believe from childhood and likely what you were taught to believe as well, and it is precisely how Muslims, Jews, Zoroastrians, etc. came to believe that their holy books are THE Holy Path to Heaven.

            It was the very same with your parents and their parents, etc. hundreds of generations into the ancient past. This is an indisputable fact.

            But all those religions evolved over that time, mostly through migration or force via conquest and Holy Tyranny.

            Did you know that the seeds of Christianity were planted during the Jewish captivity by Babylon? When the Persian King, Cyrus the Great, conquered Babylon (literally marched his army in with little opposition), he freed the Jews. Such a good ruler was he that many Jews remained in Babylon for many years thereafter (some families staying permanently).

            The Persians were predominately Zoroastrians, who believed in Heaven and a Hell; an End of Time; Judgement Day; Angels with wings; war in heaven; a virgin birth; etc. Originally, the Jews did not. The origin of the word, ‘Paradise’, by the way, is Persian.

            Consequentially, many Jewish families adopted the beliefs of the Persians (especially the afterlife tradition offering salvation–it was much better than going to Sheol after death) but made it compatible with their Jewish traditions, hence, the true origin of the “New Testament.” Christianity was eventually born as a hybrid Zoroastrian-Jewish tradition.

          • Susan Perelka

            Sounds like you made your choice, as long as you have breath, you can always change your mind.

            I have read the entire bible, and haven’t just relied on what man said. I have read it carefully, studied it carefully, and still do on an ongoing basis. I didn’t come to Jesus until I was 38 years old, so I used to think and act like the world. Jesus is very real. I have “experienced” Him in my life. I have been on both sides, Jesus is much, much better than anything the world can offer.

            You can’t see Him because you don’t want to. And your history lesson above isn’t accurate to scripture, so I assume you have listened to man’s opinions, as I once did. Man is a fallible creature. God isn’t. I think I will stick with what God has to say. Have a nice day.

          • One can change his mind, but no one can change the facts. What I wrote was factual. Apparently what you have not read or researched is the origin of Christianity and studied the debates relevant to the the Zoroastrian connection and the mistranslations (some, I think, on purpose). Have you researched the debates about the efficacy of concept of omniscience, omnipotence and omnibenevolence and the logical fallacies the concept develops throughout the Bible?

            Who, according to Genesis, introduced sin/evil into the world?
            Eve? Since deceit is a sin, how is it that Yahweh made the serpent deceitful? How could Eve know she was being deceived? If Yahweh brought the “flood” that killed virtually everyone on Earth, how is it that right next door, the Egyptian dynasties continued their march through history uninterrupted? And why did he create evil to begin with?

            As I said, I was in your camp in my younger years, but then I listened to the arguments and decided to enroll in college and learn the facts. I figured that if I only steeped myself in the Bible, I would remain ignorant of other opinions, other religions and unable to make effective arguments in its support. It was a matter of intellectual honesty and integrity. I wanted to know what others were arguing and why they believed they were right. So, I studied their positions.

            So, I understand your position because I was once there. I just happened to be much more curious. Be well.

    • Plainsrabbit

      That was fiction.

      You don’t even know the difference between fiction and reality.

      Aging does awful things to the mind.

      • MarkSebree

        How do you mean? HobbesianWorld’s statements conform to reality quite nicely. He has not mentioned anything that is fiction except indirectly. All his declarative statements are based in reality.

        Perhaps yours is the mind that has aged enough for awful things to happen to it.

  • Chet

    What an opportunity for one who was formerly lost, wholly deceived and undone to then shout praise the Lord, Jesus saves, Jesus saves, hallelujah! I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see. Let me tell folks you how God Almighty opened my eyes to this extreme wickedness, this butchery, this killing of unwanted unborn little ones yet being carried about in their momma’s wombs. Oh, if only this could be the case…

  • BuckeyePhysicist

    Let’s pray for Cecile’s conversion.

    • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

      I agree.

      • Susan Perelka

        Abba Father, Open their eyes to see the condition they are in. Help them to see Who You truly are. Have mercy on them and bless them. Forgive them, they do not know what they are doing. Thank You Father for the privilege to speak Your truth. Thank You for my dear brothers and sisters in Christ. Help us to give an answer for the hope that is in us. Thank You for our beloved Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. We love You, we adore You now and forever. AMEN

        • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥