23 Major League Baseball Teams to Host Homosexual ‘Pride Night’ in 2018

Photo Credit: St. Louis Cardinals/YouTube/Screenshot

At least 23 of the 30 major league baseball teams plan to host a homosexual “Pride Night” during the 2018 season, leaving just two teams to have never held such an event—the New York Yankees and the Los Angeles Angels—and even then, the two still support the sin of homosexuality by other means. The other five teams have hosted Pride Night in years past.

The majority of the teams plan to hold their events during June, which homosexual advocates observe as “Pride Month.” Pride Night includes various gestures of support, such as the display of a rainbow flag, the offering of homosexual-themed merchandise, the presentation of a homosexual choral group or the zeroing in on homosexuals for kiss cams.

Some teams specifically highlight their scheduled Pride Night on their website.

“The Phillies invite you to celebrate Philadelphia’s rich LGBTQ culture at our second annual Pride Night Celebration at Citizens Bank Park on Thursday, June 28 at 7:05 p.m. when the Phillies host the Washington Nationals,” writes the Philadelphia Phillies. “All members of the LGBT community, as well as family, friends and organizations are invited to come out and show their pride at this event.”

The St. Louis Cardinals additionally are offering a rainbow-themed t-shirt to attendees of their upcoming Pride Night, and plan to donate a part of the ticket sales to a homosexual advocacy organization.

“Pride St. Louis and the St. Louis Cardinals are partnering to present the 2nd Annual Pride Night at Busch Stadium on Friday, August 17,” their site reads. “Join LGBT friends, family, and allies to watch the Cardinals take on the Milwaukee Brewers.”

“With the purchase of a special theme ticket, fans will receive a Cardinals t-shirt with a rainbow STL logo. A portion of each ticket sold will benefit Missouri Courage Scholarship, which is the first, and largest, state-wide LGBTQ scholarship organization in Missouri,” it states.

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The major league team says that it plans to present a men’s choral group singing “God Bless America” prior to the game.

The Boston Red Sox will hold a pre-game “pride party” and the Boston Gay Men’s Chorus will perform the national anthem at the June 7 game.

Other teams scheduled to offer Pride Night include the Minnesota Twins, the Milwaukee Brewers, the New York Mets, the Atlanta Braves, the Baltimore Orioles, the Seattle Mariners, the Oakland Athletics, and the Washington Nationals.

LifeSite News reports that while the New York Yankees have not hosted a pride-themed evening, as they do not offer themed games of any kind, they do support “organizations that assist lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender youths.” The Los Angeles Angels also sell pride rainbow shirts on their website.

As previously reported, Christians believe that all men are born with the Adamic sin nature, and have inherent inclinations that are contrary to the law of God, being utterly incapable of helping themselves. It is why Jesus outlined in John 3:5-7 that men must be regenerated by the second birth.

“Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God,” he declared. “That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.”

2 Corinthians 5:15-17 also teaches, “He died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto Him which died for them, and rose again. … Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”

Jesus additionally outlined in Matthew 19:4-5, “Have ye not read that He which made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they twain shall be one flesh?’”


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  • Reason2018

    Adults continue to permanently turn away from homosexuality, even after decades of believing the lie they were “born that way”, proving it’s not genetic, but the product of indoctrination, confusion, mental instability and/or abuse.

    Homosexual behavior is most literally pointed out as a sin, and God has not changed on that regard. But if a person has those inclinations but does not act upon them, does not dwell in lust upon others, but is instead struggling against them to avoid them, then it’s not a sin. It’s just like sinful inclinations of any kind: it’s acting upon it when it becomes a sin.

    And this is what God says about sin and specifically the behavior of homosexuality:

    Romans 1:26-27 ”For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: (27) And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their_lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ”Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [men who willingly take on the part of a “woman” with another man], nor abusers of themselves with mankind [s odomites], (10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”

    1 Timothy 1:9-10 ”Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, (10) For_whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind [s odomites], for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”

    Jude 1:7 ”Even as_Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”

    Luke 17:29 ”[Jesus said] But the same day that Lot went out of_Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.”

    Matthew 19:4-6 ”And he [Jesus] answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, (5) And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? (6) Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.”

    Jesus made it quite clear God made us male and female so that a man will leave his father and mother (not two fathers, not three mothers and so on) and cleave onto his wife (not his husband and so on).

    The Word of God rebukes us all – even if we all try to say we don’t believe the Bible, the very Word of God will be our judge when we face Him. And God is a righteous judge and will judge us all – not turn a blind eye to our sin. Do not be deceived by the world: it’s God we will have to convince that His word was a lie, not men. What happened in Noah’s day when the entire world rejected God? Did God spare them because there were so many? No – they all perished except for Noah and his family!

    Proverbs 9:10 ”The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.”

    God spared not His chosen people – we are kidding ourselves if we think He will spare the United States of America if we choose to blatantly turn away from Him.

    Jeremiah 12:17 ”But if they will not obey, I will utterly pluck up and destroy that nation, saith the LORD.”

    Luke 17:28-30 “So also as it was in the days of Lot: they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; (29) but the day Lot went out of Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from the heaven and destroyed them all. (30) Even so it shall be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.”

    Romans 1:18-32 “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [suppress] the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

    For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

    Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

    For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

    And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, m urder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”

    The entire Bible points out men having_sex with men is an abomination. Likewise woman having_sex with women. It’s not just Paul that pointed it out.

    Genesis 19:4-13 “But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of S odom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them [men wanting to have_sex with men].

    And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing [he offers his daughters to be_raped to keep them from having_sex with another man – shows_rape is not the issue but male on male_sex]; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

    And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.

    And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place: For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.”

    These two messengers were sent to destroy that place before the event where they tried to_rape these messengers.

    Leviticus 18:22 “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”

    Leviticus 20:13 “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination …”

    Even cross-dressing is an abomination:

    Deuteronomy 22:5 “The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.”

    Deuteronomy 23:17 “There shall be no_whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a s odomite of the sons of Israel.”

    1 Kings 22:46 “And the remnant of the s odomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.”

    1 Kings 15:11-12 “And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, as did David his father. And he took away the s odomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.”

    2 Kings 23:7 “And he brake down the houses of the s odomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.”

    Ezekiel 16:49-50 “Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister S odom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.”

    And the “pride” parades about homosexuality are more of the same.

    Even Jesus points out marriage is a man and a woman.

    Matthew 19:4-5 “And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?”

    Not father and father. Not mother and mother. Not his husband.

    And only two people of opposite gender can become “one flesh”.

    Live forever, people – not temporarily only to be cast out for living for the things of this world.

    May God/Jesus Christ be glorified!

    • Robert M. Owen

      PLEASE, what a load of shit!

      • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

        Dear Abba Father. In Christ Your Son I ask You to Rebuke this person,

        • Robert M. Owen

          Oh, shut up. Your Christian hate group is a joke.

        • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

          Peewee’s having a breakdown, isn’t he?

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            Big time breakdown. If he keeps it up it’s going to give him a stroke. That kind of anger is not good for his health.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            I’ve decided to ignore him and his alts. He keeps repeating the same obvious fallacies. I can’t believe he has such an unhealthy fixation on Christians. He must be sad in real life.

  • lolaalex

    God is the ONLY judge!!

    • Amos Moses – He>i

      and He has made His judgement known to all men …..

      • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

        Amen!

        • Susan Perelka

          Amen!

      • john appleseed

        Yes, and Jesus commanded us to “judge with righteous judgment.”

        • Bryan E. Finn

          But NOT self-righteous judgment.

    • Luminous

      Oh, good, that means you shouldn’t be judging us.

      • lolaalex

        I know what it is like to be judged and wouldn’t wish that on anyone. No, I’m not judging you or your beliefs as long as they don’t hinder others and their beliefs.

  • Amos Moses – He>i

    “Pride” in who another has sex with …. sorry … do not get it …… what is there to be “proud” of other than being in rebellion and stupid about the health effects of doing it ………….. or not caring about either …. it is being “proud” of ones NARCISSISM …………..

  • TheSayer

    Philippians 3:19-20 New King James Version (NKJV)
    19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame—who set their mind on earthly things . 20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,

  • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

    Sad.

  • Ben Welliver

    Nothing about this whole movement makes any sense. If you are “born gay,” how could you be PROUD of it? That’s like having Pride Night for people with blue eyes or people with freckles or lefthanded people.

    It’s all nonsense. If you’re secure in who you are, you don’t need Pride events, you get on with your life and don’t give a hoot what other people think.

    • SFBruce

      There’s a huge difference between people with blue eyes, people with freckles, left handed people and people who are LGBTQ. The former groups aren’t unfairly marginalized, while the latter is. I look forward to the day when being gay is an uncontroversial the color of your eyes, which hand is dominant and the presence of freckles.

      • Ben Welliver

        Never have seen a gay baby.

        Show me one and I’ll believe in “born gay.”

        Take your time.

        • SFBruce

          I can’t help but notice you haven’t even tried to refute what I’ve written. I believe that in that past LGBTQ people have been treated unfairly, to say the least, and events like the ones described here will probably help correct that.

          Also, I never claimed that gay people are “born gay.” I do accept the current scientific consensus that sexual orientation isn’t chosen, and that it’s largely immutable.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Science doesn’t claim that sexual orientation isn’t chosen. There is no homosexual gene.

            How have you been treated unfairly? Lost your business because you wouldn’t bake a cake?

          • Bryan E. Finn

            Punched in the face, head held in a toilet, beaten up, called an abomination, ridiculed, mocked, judged. Want me to go on?

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Yet Christians are the most persecuted people in the world. Want me to go on?

          • LynnRH

            Humans do not have the right to abuse someone because they choose to sin that’s for sure; such as punch in the face, head in toilet, beaten up, ridiculed, mocked, judged. BUT the Almighty God DOES have the right to judge sin. And He has already judged homosexuality to be a sin. And He calls it an abomination to Him.

            Leviticus 18:22- Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination. KJB

            I just don’t know how it can be any plainer than that. 🙂

          • Railpirate

            Leviticus also says slavery is perfectly fine (Except if the slave is from Israël.) I’d like to see you argue that based on leviticus.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Actually, no, that’s not what it says. Have you ever read the Bible?

          • Railpirate

            “For they are my servants, which I brought forth out of the land of Egypt: they shall not be sold as slaves.” Leviticus 25:42

            The people he brought from Egypt to Israël can’t be sold as slaves, This implies other groups can be sold as slaves or that there is situations where people can be sold as slaves, at the very least.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            It’s saying what it says it is: that God freed His people from slavery and that they won’t be slaves anymore. That’s what freedom means.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            sounds like grade school …. so what ………..

          • Bryan E. Finn

            I don’t know what grade school you went to, but either way, this was high school.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            sure …. and ………..

          • Jennifer Eccles

            What do you mean “and”? Are you encouraging senseless violent acts against homosexuals? If he’s gay there’s nothing he can do about it and he shouldn’t have to endure beatings because of it.

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            Since it’s high school, it’s okay, I guess. The old “boys will be boys” defense.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            lets establish your worldview first …… do you believe in evolution ………..

          • Jennifer Eccles

            Is this a test?
            I don’t believe in evolution, I ACCEPT that it occurs.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            ok ….. so if “it occurs” then there are certain requirements for it to take place …… one of those things is a thinning of the herd through various means ….. so if “IT OCCURS” and you “ACCEPT” that …… then what is your complaint as to the means evolution “occurs” to accomplish that end …..

          • Jennifer Eccles

            What does this have to do with the matter at hand?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            your BIGOTRY …… that is what it has to do with the matter at hand …………..

          • Jennifer Eccles

            Why do you have a problem with the reality of that statement, and why do you think it constitutes “bigotry”?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            because you are telling a segment of people … AND THEY ARE PEOPLE ….. that they are INCAPABLE OF CHANGE …… and that is HATEFUL ….. and it is BIGOTRY ………………..

          • Jennifer Eccles

            Can you change the color of your eyes, Amos? Am I being hateful by telling you that?

            If you want to change your personality, your disposition, even your pants, go right ahead, I’m not telling anyone they can’t do that. But your sexuality is innate. You will have no more luck trying to change it than the color of your eyes.

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            Are you seriously trying to say that bullying in schools is an example of evolution (which you don’t believe in anyway)?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            i am saying if you buy into the lie that evolution is …… then you have no MORAL compliant about how ANYBODY is treated ……. as EVOLUTION does not deal in morality …… and YOU are making a MORAL complaint …… without cause …… that is …. IF you are CONSISTENT with your worldview …… and my guess is that you AINT …………..

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            Well, you got one thing right. Evolution doesn’t deal with morality. That’s like saying weather patterns don’t deal with morality, though. Of course they don’t, it’s just a thing that happens. That doesn’t mean that if you accept that it happens, that there’s can’t BE morality, though. For one thing, many Christians believe in evolution, and even if you’d say that means they’re not “true Christians”, I’d be willing to bet most if not all of these people would say they believe in morality.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “That’s like saying weather patterns don’t deal with morality, though. Of course they don’t, it’s just a thing that happens. ”

            right … and if you buy into the worldview of evolution …… YOU HAVE NO COMPLAINT …….. especially about how ANYBODY is treated …………

            “That doesn’t mean that if you accept that it happens, that there’s can’t BE morality”

            OH YES IT DOES ….. because you have no BASIS for it in that worldview ………

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            Again, evolution isn’t a worldview. That’s like saying gravity is a worldview. But, you seem to have some strange ideas as to what evolution actually IS, anyway.

            But how about a little different way to look at it….I’ve read this a few times, and it makes sense to me: Morality is a result of evolution, in a way. People with strong senses of morality create stable societies, which in turn, people thrive in.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            evolution IS a worldview that colors everything you see ……. “Morality is a result of evolution, in a way.” …. utter GARBAGE …… there is no SCIENCE for that to even be a supportable position ……… “People with strong senses of morality create stable societies, which in turn, people thrive in.” … so all that STALIN did was to kill 10-20 MILLION people by starvation and outright murder ….. to make a “stable society” for the rest that he did not murder to thrive in ……. and that makes it “moral” …… COMPLETE AND UTTER GARBAGE …….. and that ” makes sense to me” ……. WOW …… just WOW ………… and you want to sit there and tell us that EVOLUTION is not a worldview …. and that it does not color EVERYTHING you see or think you know ……

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            Morality as a result of evolution doesn’t mean you won’t sometimes have evil tyrants and such. I never claimed it did. But, you know… it’s hardly like atrocities haven’t been committed in the name of a god, either.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Joseph Stalin – 10 and 20 million Soviets and German prisoners of war died under his regime, depending on how many famine victims you count, from Gulags, execution, and forced resettlement.

            Mao Zedong – killed unknown tens of millions of Chinese, most of them in public executions and violent clashes.

            Pol Pot – 2 million Cambodians, or as much as 20% of the population, died from execution, disease and starvation.

            This is recent history … it proves your assertions fallacious ……….

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            Read the first sentence of my last post again. A few times maybe.

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            Also, I don’t have exact numbers at the moment, but how many people killed in wars with religious motivations? How many natives killed in the colonization of the New World by Christian Europeans? How many millions of slaves brought out of Africa by, again, Christian Europeans?

            It wasn’t my intention to make this into an atrocity competition (because that isn’t the point!), but if you want it to be, you can’t claim your side’s history is squeaky clean.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            compared to the last 150 years of mans inhumanity to man …….. a MINUTE amount ……… but that has NOTHING to do with YOUR FALLACIOUS assertion that “morality evolves” ………. we have not even begun to talk about 2 world wars and the 100s of smaller wars NOT “religiously motivated” …..

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            “but that has NOTHING to do with YOUR FALLACIOUS assertion that “morality evolves””

            You’re the one who started this whole thing, mentioning Stalin et al. If that has nothing to do with what I said, why did you bring it up in the first place?

            “we have not even begun to talk about 2 world wars and the 100s of smaller wars NOT “religiously motivated” …..”

            Yeah, because those wouldn’t have anything to do with what we’re talking about.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            no … YOU brought up “religious wars” and THAT has nothing to do with what we are discussing ….. “YOUR FALLACIOUS assertion that “morality evolves” ….. what we are discussing is YOU FALLACIOUS assertions …… and Stalin et al are ABSOLUTELY relevant …..

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            Why are the wars irrelevant but Stalin and the like are? Because you say so?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you do not seem to have a WORLDVIEW that includes God as you embrace EVOLUTION …… and we are discussing YOUR WORLDVIEW ….. and you are being held to CONSISTENCY in that view ……. which YOU seem incapable of doing without stealing from a christian worldview ……. there is no God in evolution ….. there is no morality in evolution and YOU do not get to appeal to morality …. as it is not part of your worldview …………

            SO ….. you are stuck with defending morality “evolving” ….. and this is the key point …… YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE ….. and the evidence that does exist …… OBLITERATES your position …………. when you can show how POND SCUM came up with “morality” …….. THEN maybe you can move on ……….

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            None of that seems to be even an attempt to answer the question I asked: Why is one thing relevant and another is not? I guess you’re just giving up on answering that one?

            “and we are discussing YOUR WORLDVIEW”

            No, not really. This started with someone asking you if you approved of bullying in schools, which you seemed to, or at least you didn’t have anything negative to say about it, anyway. Then you tried to change the subject and go on this tangent that you think is relevant but really isn’t. If I’m right, I’m right, and if I’m wrong, I’m wrong. Whatever my “worldview” would happen to be.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “None of that seems to be even an attempt to answer the question I asked: Why is one thing relevant and another is not?”

            and i answered …. we are discussing YOUR WORLDVIEW and your FALLACIOUS assertions ……..

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            “and i answered”

            OK, so I guess it WAS an attempt to answer my question. I didn’t realize, because it didn’t (and doesn’t) make any dang sense. It’s irrelevant because I brought it up and I’m not a Christian? So, what….if you had brought that up, it then would have been relevant?

            People like you are usually the ones (wrongly) accusing people like me of believing that “truth is relative” or something like that. But here you’re basically telling me something is true when you’re saying it, but not when I say it. Interesting.

            “we are discussing YOUR WORLDVIEW and your FALLACIOUS assertions”

            What’s this “we” stuff? Got a frog in your pocket? Or did I miss the memo that declared you Official Determiner of Relevancy of Topics?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope …. it was not an attempt … it was an answer you do not like … SO WHAT …….

            “It’s irrelevant because I brought it up and I’m not a Christian? ” …. NOPE …… because your worldview does not include God so you do not get to speak against Him nor use it as an excuse for YOUR lack of an explanation as a red herring ………… your worldview is DEFICIENT and you do not get to STEAL from other worldviews to fill in YOUR holes ……

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            “because your worldview does not include God”

            Or in other words, because I’m not a Christian. Or is it just that I’m not a theist? Well, anyway, I am beginning to see it’s pretty futile to try to have any sort of discussion with you.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “Or in other words, because I’m not a Christian. ”

            nope … in YOUR OWN WORDS …… morality comes from EVOLUTION …… and you are being held to that WORLDVIEW ……. and you do not get to use DISTRACTION to worm your way out of an UNTENABLE and FALLACIOUS position ……….. so ….. EITHER prove your point …. which you cannot …… or RETRACT your silly position …………. easy peasy lemon squeezy ……

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            I tried to prove my point, but you told me the things that I brought up were irrelevant because I don’t believe in your God, which still doesn’t make sense to me. You said I was “stealing from God” or some such thing, or that I’m stealing from other worldviews, whatever that means.

            Anyway, who the heck says my “worldview” has to either fall exactly in slot A or slot B? Who says my only choices are what you believe and this strange version of what you think I believe, which I’m not even sure what that is anyway….

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            right …. because you cannot stay in your own paradigm …. you are trying to bring God into YOUR CLAIMED SYSTEM that does not recognize God ….. so why would i ……. this is really simple …… DOES OBJECTIVE MORALITY exist ……… a morality that comes from outside man and is objectively applied to every and ALL men regardless of where they are and what they believe ………….

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            Well, I don’t believe in a god, so if I believed in a morality “coming from outside man,” that wouldn’t make any sense, would it? Where would this morality outside man come from if not from a god? So, my answer to that question is no. Does objective morality exist? Not in the sense that I think you think it does, but neither do I think morality is completely subjective like you seem to think I do. I think it should be pretty darn obvious that societies just function better and people in them do better when we aren’t randomly killing and raping and stealing and destroying and all that lovely stuff. Do you really think we need a God to tell us that??

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “So, my answer to that question is no.”

            very good … SO …. you have NO MORALITY …… all you have is YOUR OPINION as to what morality is ……. and it makes no difference how many people agree with you ….. it is still JUST YOUR OPINION that it is moral or immoral ….. and it can change whenever YOU SAY SO ……

            THUS ….. you have NO MORAL COMPLAINT about how ANYBODY is treated in any way, shape or form …. it is JUST YOUR OPINION …… TODAY ………

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            Do you actually read what I’m saying? Seriously, I think you need to try reading my last post again, and maybe then you’ll understand it, because it doesn’t seem you understood what I was saying at all. I’m saying morality is neither completely objective NOR subjective.

            I’ll ask you basically the same thing I did before: Do you really think you wouldn’t know murder, for example, was wrong if your holy book hadn’t “thou shalt not kill”? I think it says something about you if you think that, and it’s not anything positive….

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “because it doesn’t seem you understood what I was saying at all. I’m saying morality is neither completely objective NOR subjective.”

            YUP ….. and it changes my response not ONE IOTA ……. it is STILL just YOUR OPINION as to which is which AND WHEN ………… SO ….. a difference with no real difference ………… “Do you really think you wouldn’t know murder, for example, was wrong if your holy book hadn’t “thou shalt not kill”?” ….. RED HERRING …… we are not talking about me and where i KNOW OBJECTIVE MORALITY comes from ….. right now WE ARE TALKING ABOUT YOU …… and the FACT is …… “Do you really think you wouldn’t know murder” is NOT A QUESTION YOU can answer ….. and i CAN ………. within YOUR DEFINED PARAMETER of “evolutionary morality” …… YOU HAVE NO ANSWER to HOW YOU EVEN COME TO THAT KNOWLEDGE …….. you cannot explain how you seem to know what you know beyond “i ate some pizza and digested it and it went to my brain and informed me” ………….

            ALL YOU HAVE IS BRAIN FIZZ THAT EXPLAINS NOTHING ……..

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            “we are not talking about me”

            Why not? Can’t answer a simple question?

            “ALL YOU HAVE IS BRAIN FIZZ THAT EXPLAINS NOTHING ..”

            Saying *God did it” isn’t any more, in fact it’s less, of an explanation.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you have NO explanation for morality ….. and what you do have is what you ate for dinner ….. a bit of undercooked meat or a piece of broccoli ……. brain fizz …….

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “Saying *God did it” isn’t ”

            ANYTHING you can point to in this world had a CREATIVE INTELLIGENCE behind it …. but you think the universe is an accident of an explosion …… and that you are an accident and your creation had no intelligence behind it …. and you think that is an INTELLIGENT way to view things …… YOU HAVE NO MORAL COMPLAINT about how ANYBODY is treated …… you are just a gazelle waiting to be eaten by larger animals ….. and there is no morality in your worldview … IF YOU ARE CONSISTANT ….. and you AINT …….. all you can do is STEAL from others worldviews to fill in the holes that you cannot in anyway explain ………….. except BRAIN FIZZ …….

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            “ANYTHING you can point to in this world had a CREATIVE INTELLIGENCE behind it”

            If I did believe that, I’d probably be doubting it at least, after having this conversation.

            “YOU HAVE NO MORAL COMPLAINT about how ANYBODY is treated”

            It seems like you’re a lot less concerned with how others are treated than I am. Ironic, if I am supposed to be the one with “no moral complaint.”

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            oh i am ALL FOR people being treated well ……. BUT what YOU advocate IS DEFICIENT in any explanation for that to occur …. and it is therefore a LIE ….. and maybe because of YOUR WORLDVIEW you do not get this ….. YOUR LIES HARM EVERYONE …… ESPECIALLY those you seem to think you “protect” …… YOU ARE WRONG ….. AND YOU ARE HURTING PEOPLE ……. and you have NO MORAL BASIS to complain OR to protect them OR ANYBODY …… because your position is a LIE …… LIES HARM OTHERS ………

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            “oh i am ALL FOR people being treated well”

            Oh, go pull the other one. What are you gonna tell me next, that you’re really a Nigerian prince who wants to transfer large amounts of money to my bank account?

            “and you have NO MORAL BASIS to complain OR to protect them OR ANYBODY”

            First of all, I’m sorry, but it’s a flat-out LIE that you have to have a god to be moral, or that if I do appear to be moral, I’m “stealing from God” or however you put it. But even with all that aside, even if I DID believe morality is COMPLETELY subjective (which you still seem to think I do?)….wouldn’t I at least have a right to complain about something because I don’t like it myself? Seems like a good enough reason for me.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “First of all, I’m sorry, but it’s a flat-out LIE that you have to have a god to be moral”

            not what i said …… but your LACK of RECOGNIZING God gives you no basis to make a moral claim of any kind …. and your statement above that i said anything like what you said i said ….. IS A LIE ………..

            “wouldn’t I at least have a right to complain about something because I don’t like it myself? Seems like a good enough reason for me.”

            sure …. AND …. it is all JUST YOUR OPINION ….. at this moment ….. BECAUSE if it “evolves” ….. it may not be the same tomorrow or the next day ….. or next year or at any other time …. and YOU cannot tell me or ANYBODY if and when that will be ….. OBJECTIVE MORALITY DOES NOT CHANGE …… YOURS DOES …… so it is NO MORALITY AT ALL …………… it is JUST YOUR OPINION ………….

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            OK, OK….so if morality’s so objective, why is it that what is thought of as right and wrong has changed over time? And even today, different people have different ideas of morality…even among adherents of the same religion. I’d think that if morality was so objective and clear and all that, there wouldn’t be so much confusion about just what that morality IS exactly. It’s almost as if people have their own ideas about what is right and wrong and interpret the sometimes-conflicting things their religion says to go along with that…..

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “so if morality’s so objective, why is it that what is thought of as right and wrong has changed over time?”

            NOPE …. OBJECTIVE MORALITY does not change …… YOUR MORALITY has no solid unchanging base ….. and it changes with YOUR OPINION ………..

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            And also….you’re suggesting that if I don’t have this code of objective morality to refer to that comes from “outside man”….that I’ll basically change what my morals are every other day or something? No, that ain’t the way that works. Sure, my opinions on what is right or wrong might change (and have changed somewhat) over time, gradually, but I don’t change them suddenly or change them lightly. Someone’s values are a big part of what makes them THEM. Someone who changes that on a whim….well, I’d call that insanity.

            Hmm. I guess I didn’t think of it this way before, but you’re basically calling anyone who doesn’t believe in a god (and probably your God at that) insane. Nice.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “that I’ll basically change what my morals are every other day or something? No, that ain’t the way that works.”

            NOPE … that is EXACTLY the way it works …… you have absolutely NO OBJECTIVE STANDARD to measure morality by …… and so it MIGHT change tomorrow …. or the next day …. OR AT ANY OTHER TIME AT YOUR OWN CONVENIENCE ….. because all you have to base it on is YOUR OWN OPINION ………. “Sure, my opinions on what is right or wrong might change (and have changed somewhat) over time, gradually, but I don’t change them suddenly or change them lightly” …. AND THERE IS THE PROOF RIGHT THERE …… YOUR OWN WORDS …………….. you just stated MY CASE …… and you have none ….. so we agree ….. and thanx for your admission that i am right and you just have YOUR OPINION ……..

          • Robert M. Owen

            Do you have something against writing in complete sentences? Why does everything you write trail off like you are completely abandoning your line of thought? Is it because that’s what you ARE doing?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            your objections as to form are noted ….. i do not care …………

          • Robert M. Owen

            So write like a second grader then and wonder why no one takes your posts seriously.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            LOL ………… sure …….. whatever you say ………. no one is being forced to respond here …. and yet you did ….. and all you have is epithet and name calling …. sound reasoned argument …. NOT ……..

          • Robert M. Owen

            I’ve seen how you do with other people’s logical statements. You throw them all away.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            sorry …. what “logical” statements would those be …. it is not logical to deny the existence of God …. nor is it logical to say being homosexual is “normal” …… nor is “taking pride” in who you get naked with and fall into bed ………

          • Robert M. Owen

            Some people deny the existence of God and some don’t. It doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with their quality as human beings.
            “Pride” means they don’t need to feel ashamed of who they are and who they fall in love with. Because people like you shame them constantly for things they can’t change. You keep telling them that Jesus is like a big aspirin pill that’s going to “cure” them of something that isn’t a sickness. You are the sick one.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            the only “pride” they have is their own NARCISSISM ….. there is no love there except self love and self deception ……. i made no statement about their “quality as human beings” so that is a lie ….. we are ALL dead in trespasses and sin …….. “You keep telling them that Jesus is like a big aspirin pill that’s going to “cure” them of something that isn’t a sickness.” …… never made any such statement as that is not how christianity works nor how Christ works and you do not know what you are talking about in that regard …….. and you are starting to fall into self contradiction and lies …………

          • Robert M. Owen

            Crock of shit Amos, no one loves themselves when they’re gay, the point is they have fallen in love with another person. You’re so fucking ignorant, if you took 30 seconds to talk to a gay person you’d learn they are identical to yourself except the poles of attraction are reversed. But no, you have to listen to anti-science, religious bullshit.

          • Rhesus Peanut Buttercup

            There is a great podcast called Skeptoid I really recommend. I don’t think you can post web links here but one episode is called “Who Kills More, Religion or Atheism?” which you can Google and it comes to the conclusion that they are about equal.

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            That sounds like something I’ll have to check out, thanks.

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            “United States – 3.5 million children executed in the womb in the last 10 years”

            United States – the country with more Christians than any other in the world. I don’t think that one helps your point, really.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            it illustrates my point conclusively …… men do not evolve in their morality ….. and just because a person SAYS they are a christian …. does not make them one ……….

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            we have not gotten to what i believe yet ……. what matters here is WHAT ARE YOU objecting to because YOU DO BELIEVE it …….. and since you have jumped in the middle of this …… WHAT IS YOUR worldview …………….

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            Evolution isn’t a “worldview.”

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            it most certainly is …… so again …… lets establish your worldview first …… do you believe in evolution ……….. or are you a christian ………..

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            That right there is what we call a false dichotomy.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            NOPE …. YOUR WORLDVIEW determines how you view everything …….. so no “dichotomy” ….. it is DIRECTLY RELEVANT to your objection ……………

          • lolaalex

            Horrific!

          • Darwin C

            Hugs. I’m sorry you were treated that way.

          • SFBruce

            The overwhelming consensus of the scientific community is sexual orientation is neither chosen nor easily changed. You don’t have to like it; you don’t even have to agree with it, but it happens to be the truth.

            Yes, I’ve been treated unfairly on occasion, but I’m also having a good life in many ways. I’m glad and feel lucky to live in a time when things are changing so that other LGBTQ people will have it a bit better.

            Regarding cake bakers, I’m glad to live in a country that guarantees freedom of conscience, but I also believe that business owners should comply with the law, and that includes cake bakers and florists.

          • LynnRH

            God says it is a sin, an abomination to Him. So why in the world would He make someone born as a homosexual? That doesn’t make any sense at all.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            That’s false information.

            More Christians are killed than anyone in the homosexual community.

            Those are facts.

          • SFBruce

            There is no doubt that Christians have been, and are today, persecuted. The same can be said about LGBTQ people. But I didn’t realize there’s some persecution sweepstakes going on. Can’t we agree at least that persecution of any group is, by definition, a blight on humanity?

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Can you name one instance of homosexual persecution that isn’t anecdotal?

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            How about laws against sodomy (only ruled unconstitutional in 2003), or marriage bans, or bans on military service?

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Would you feel persecuted if you were jailed for murder?

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            I suppose that would depend on if I had actually committed the crime of murder.

          • Darwin C

            In the US, christians are not attacked or killed for being christians at higher rates than gay people are attacked or killed for being gay.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Sure they are. Christians are being jailed, losing their businesses, and having their lives threatened. Which homosexual has been thrown off a building in the US lately?

          • Darwin C

            Christians have not been jailed for being christians. Nor have they lost businesses for being christian.

            The bible commands obedience to government authority. This is repeated more than once in the NT.

            In the bible, Jesus said to treat people kindly and go the extra mile. And also “rejoice with those who rejoice.”

            If a company chooses to disobey laws prohibiting discrimination, isn’t the problem that they disobeyed several clear biblical commands?

            There is no command to treat people poorly. If you make and sell pretty cakes, sell one to people who are celebrating. Rejoice with them as your lord commanded.

          • Railpirate

            Christians have indeed lost their businesses after refusing to obide by religious freedom in goods and services. That’s not prosecution because they are Christian, it’s prosecution for taking someone elses constitutional rights.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Don’t you mean persecution, not prosecution? How is homosexual sex practices a religious freedom issue? What does sodomy have to do with religion?

          • Rhesus Peanut Buttercup

            What sort of sex practices would you expect a homosexual to have, if not homosexual ones?

          • Railpirate

            (Upfront note: Just taking the USA into account here.)

            Yes, More Christians are killed then gay people. There is also about 18 times the amount of Christians in the USA compared to gay people.

            If you start looking at the percentual demographics that paints a lovely picture that gay people are a lot more likely to be killed for being gay, then Christians to be killed for being Christian.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Something being “more likely” doesn’t mean it is likely. There are more Christians slaughtered for being Christians than there are homosexuals slaughtered for being homosexuals. You can’t make up stats to suit your agenda.

          • Railpirate

            I’ve tried to respond with a link, but this site won’t approve my links in there, even though the linke I tried to send literally goes tothe website of the FBI, who has data on this.

            From the FBI’s Hate Crime Report Homocide Section (Report from 2016, The Report for 2017 isn’t out yet as far as I am aware):

            roughly 60% of hate crimes is based on religious bias, roughly 15% is based on sexual orientation bias.
            This is, while roughly 80% of the country is religious and roughly 5% of the population is not a heterosexual.

            That’s
            roughly 225% more homocide based on sexual orientation compared to
            based on faith. – Whereas within Faith we can also see homocide because
            of faith is more common under Muslims then with Christians, meaning the
            number for Christians is in fact even lower.

            I am not saying there
            is no homocide against Christians for being Christians, I am saying,
            that there is clear data provided by the FBI on the subject that gives aclear answer contradictory to your statement.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            That doesn’t mean that more homosexuals are persecuted than Christians. In fact, atheists here will argue that the US is not a Christian nation, but rather a secular one. Christians are a minority, and are persecuted worldwide far more than homosexuals are. That’s a fact.

          • Railpirate

            – “That doesn’t mean that more homosexuals are persecuted than Christians” You noted homocide, which I answered, If you check the same datasheet, you are just not correct- Roughly the same percentage of reason exists in general hate crime. Your claims are directly contradicted by the FBI’s data.

            – ” In fact, atheists here will argue that the US is not a Christian nation, but rather a secular one.” This is literally defined in the constitution.

            – “Christians are a minority” In accordance with the American Cencus Bureau, roughly 75-80% of the country has one of the varients of Christianty as it’s religion. – With the far majority Protestant. Your statement is directly contradicted by evidence.

            – “and are persecuted worldwide far more than homosexuals are. That’s a fact.” Please fullfill your burden of proof.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            That’s false One Christian dies per minute worldwide. Not so for homosexuals.

          • Railpirate

            Would you stop with the false equivecation?, you are using religiously based proscecution and religiously based homocide interchangeably, and now are equating death (in general) with both of those as well.

            You’ve also been interchangeably using the claim on the USA and the entire world, as the argument here applies to the USA due to the context of the question, not the entire world. The situation world wide may or may not show a different picture but that says nothing about the situation in the USA. – Using the two interchangeably is also a false equivecation fallacy.

            You’ve also been making an argument on total numbers, rather then percentual data, which is the only way you can draw a comparason between the two factors, which is the quite literal definition of a percentage fallacy.

            Lastly, I’ve not seen any data on your end yet to support your argument, as pointed out earlier, you are still comitting a Burden of Proof data.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            I gave you actual statistics. You gave propaganda (and bad math). 🙂

          • Railpirate

            I see no statistics from you in this conversation. – Waiting for you to fix the fallacies I’ve pointed out law post. You now also have a burden of proof to proof the data I provided from the FBI and US Cencus bureau is propaganda and you’ve got a burden of proof to fullfill that my math is incorrect.

            I am waiting.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            I thought you said you were leaving? 🙂 Look, you tried to manipulate statistics. You failed. You can’t force the numbers to say what they don’t say. More Christians are slaughtered and persecuted worldwide than homosexuals. Try to prove one homosexual is murdered per minute worldwide. You can’t because they aren’t.

          • Railpirate

            – “Look, you tried to manipulate statistics. You failed.” Yet another Burden of Proof you have to fullfill (But can’t, as I directly used the FBI’s statistics which you can find yourself, I would give you the link but the website blocks it and removes my posts that contain links)
            – “More Christians are slaughtered and persecuted worldwide than homosexuals.” Still waiting for your justification of using a percentage fallacy in argument and I am still waiting on your proof for this claim. (Burden of Proof fallacy).
            – “Try to prove one homosexual is murdered per minute worldwide.” You are requesting me to proof a negative (Providing data contrary to an argument (yours) with no proof shown), which is a shifting the Burden fallac6y.

            I am still waiting for you to clear up the fallacies.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You’re just trolling at this point. You have real life statistics that prove you wrong, yet you’re still harping on some stat that you’re trying to manipulate to say what it doesn’t. One Christian killed worldwide per minute for his/her faith. Very few homosexuals killed for their sodomy worldwide. No comparison.

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            The US being a secular nation doesn’t mean Christians aren’t the majority. (which they are)

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Sure it does. Christians are the minority.

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            It’s something like 70% of people in the US who are Christians, isn’t it? That’s no “minority.”

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            That’s false.

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            Then how exactly do you figure that Christians are the minority in this country?

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            Oh, wait, wait, let me guess…..only a very small percentage of people who call themselves Christians are “true Christians”, right? Is that how you come up with the claim of being a minority?

          • Do you believe in God?

          • Susan Perelka

            Since when does science know everything? They have been wrong sometimes. Only God knows everything.

          • SFBruce

            I never claimed that science “knows everything.” Quite the opposite. The goal of scientific evidence isn’t to “know everything,” it’s to advance theories based on the best available evidence at the time. No study ever claims that it’s the last word on whatever the research dealt with. Indeed, for a study to have any value, the data and methodology used to reach conclusions must be available so that other scientists can replicate the work to see if the results stand up. New data and new research is always coming out, and those new studies either confirm current theories or require changes, or completely new theories.

            That doesn’t mean that science can satisfy spiritual issues. Science works great when it comes to finding successful treatments to certain diseases and many other matters, but science can’t tell you why we’re here. That’s where faith comes in.

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            Science doesn’t claim that sexual orientation isn’t chosen?

            “The mechanisms for the development of a particular sexual orientation
            remain unclear, but the current literature and most scholars in the
            field state that one’s sexual orientation is not a choice; that is,
            individuals do not choose to be homosexual or heterosexual” – American Academy of Pediatrics, 2004

            “It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature,
            determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early
            uterine environment. Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice,
            though sexual behaviour clearly is.” – Royal College of Psychiatrists, 2007

          • Jennifer Eccles

            I’d like to see those statements tattooed on every Christian.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            That’s funny. Your citations don’t show up in any search engine, but let’s pretend they do. Opinion fluff pieces aren’t scientific fact. Give me some scientific facts that prove your claim. Hint: you can’t, because there aren’t any.

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            “Your citations don’t show up in any search engine”

            I got them from the Wikipedia article on sexual orientation, and they have citations in the article, that are to exactly what they say they are. You’re either not looking hard enough, or not looking at all. They aren’t “opinion fluff pieces” either. One I quoted was in a peer-reviewed medical journal, one was from the website the main professional organization of psychiatrists in the UK.

            “Give me some scientific facts that prove your claim.”

            I was disputing YOUR claim that “science doesn’t say that sexual orientation isn’t chosen.” I came up with what I felt are two pretty good examples of science saying exactly that. Now, if you’re going to move the goalposts on me and ask me to personally prove to you that sexual orientation isn’t chosen….well, I can’t. I’m not a scientist who has done research into that field. Are you? I can only point to examples of studies and papers and such, like I just did.

            But it seems like an obvious thing to me, anyway. I guess I’m not saying it’s “proof” of anything….but I mean, I’m heterosexual, and I most definitely never made a conscious choice to be that way. I couldn’t have “chosen” to be homosexual. It’s only logical to assume the same goes for homosexuals as well.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Wiki isn’t a scientific journal.

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            No, but I wasn’t saying that it is. The first quote was from “Pediatrics”, the journal of the American Association of Pediatrics. (oddly enough)

            Maybe you’re not familiar with the way Wikipedia works; they often have citations in their articles you can check on.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Yes, and anyone can edit it any time they want. 🙂

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            Remember what I said about the citations? The things that you can check, to see if what Wikipedia says someone says actually is what they said? I checked on those two myself; Wikipedia wasn’t lying. The people that said those things really did say those things. But that was just two examples, I could probably give you many more if you want.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Don’t you mean what you said when you posted as “Jennifer”, Peewee? 🙂

          • Jennifer Eccles

            Is this all you’ve got? You’re losing an argument, so you abandon it and start making sock account accusations which you can’t prove and are not relevant to your losing side of the discussion anyway?

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            LOL LOL

          • Jennifer Eccles

            I rest my case.

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            What are you even talking about? You appear to have confused me with someone else. Or several someones, maybe. Should I take that as your admission I am right about what science says about sexual orientation?

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            LOL

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            You just pretty much gave up on this whole argument, huh?

          • Robert M. Owen

            Poor Jennifer, she has no clue what the fuck you’re talking about! LOL!

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            This is where the Lord said not to trust you. This is a Christian site and using that word is wrong. May God have Favor on me and Rebuke you on My behalf. In Jesus Name Amen

          • Railpirate

            Correct, but that doesn’t change that the information provided here has full citiations confirmed it’s the actual statement made by these organisations 🙂

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Actually, it’s incorrect because one of them isn’t even a scientific organization, and also there has been no proof provided of a homosexual gene. That’s because there is none.

          • Railpirate

            Did I claim that? No,You said wikipedia isn’t a valid source because people can edit wikipedia at any time and I noted that the argument in this case that was taken from wikipedia has full citation to the actual statements by these organisations, so the source isn’t invalid by default because it’s from wikipedia, which is kind of the claim you made.

            I made no comment on the quality of the actual argument nor source.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You’re backpedaling. Anyone can claim a source said something in wiki. It’s not credible because you or I or anyone can write anything there and claim it’s sourced.

          • Railpirate

            You seem to lack an understanding of wikipedia, scroll to the bottom of a wikipedia page, and theres numbered links. You can’t just claim something is sourced, claims or information with direct sources on wikipedia has them little numbers next to them, which corresponds to the numbers of the sources on the bottom of the page so you can actually confirm the sources yourself. – Which is the case in this situation.

            Wikipedia in the situation like here is a proper source, though for the life of me I wouldn’t understand why you wouldn’t just claim the sources directly instead of via wikipedia. – But that’s kind of besides the point.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            I’ve already told you that neither source is an actual scientific source, nor did any of them provide evidence that there is a homosexual gene, so I have no idea why you’re rambling on about wiki, which is just a hosting site.

          • Railpirate

            But all I did was note that “Correct, but that doesn’t change that the information provided here has

            full citiations confirmed it’s the actual statement made by these
            organisations :)”
            The wikipedia article sources correctly to the intended location of the previous poster.

            and that therefor “Yes, and anyone can edit it any time they want. :)”
            Isn’t a valid argument in this case.

            I’ve decided to stop responding on this website further, because my posts with direct links to scientific articles or statistical data have been mostly removed by the website in arbitrary.

            Good luck staying in this self affirming bubble.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You couldn’t have posted a scientific link that proves there is a homosexual gene because there isn’t one.

          • Railpirate

            Fact of the matter is, is that I never argued on what actually is or isn’t, and just challanged the way you made your argument as I explained multiple times now, but I guess that doesn’t make you happy.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You jumped into a conversation that you did not understand. Someone claimed to have a link that proved there was a homosexual gene proven by science. That someone tried to use wiki as a source. Wiki is not a scientific journal, nor did the blurb they mentioned even remotely prove there is a homosexual gene found and identified by the scientific community and sourced in a scientific journal.

          • Lily Of The Valley

            Wait a minute now, I was looking over this conversation, and the person you were talking to never even said anything about a “homosexual gene,” not once. There were two quotes that said sexual orientation is not chosen. That’s NOT the same thing as saying there is a homosexual gene. Something can be not chosen but at the same time not be genetic. Saying that it’s either completely genetic or completely chosen is just making a false dichotomy, and I believe you’re misrepresenting the argument that person was making.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Hi Peewee! 🙂

          • Lily Of The Valley

            I don’t know who that would be, I just was wondering why you’re saying the person you were talking was saying something they weren’t, especially when the whole conversation can still be seen.

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            Hey, you want more citations where science says sexual orientation is not chosen? I can find them, I don’t even have to bring up Wikipedia at all this time. 😉

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            What the heck, I won’t even wait for you to ask for them…

            “There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay or lesbian
            orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles;
            most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual
            orientation.” – American Psychological Association

            Notice what they said there….not saying it’s necessarily genetic, basically they’re saying they don’t know if it is or not…BUT, “little to no sense of choice.”

          • LynnRH

            God’s Holy Word the Bible is the only scientific evidence we true Christians need. We don’t need a human beings research evidence to convince us.

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            Hmm. Would you say there is scientific evidence for some things the Bible says, though?

          • LynnRH

            I sure do. When there is scientific researched evidence that agrees with what the Bible states I do believe it. There has been many research that validates statements in the Bible.

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            So….you believe in the evidence when it agrees with the Bible but when it doesn’t, you don’t believe in it?

          • LynnRH

            Exactly! The Holy Bible is God’s Word. So everything in it is Truth. So when research validates the Bible I do believe it.

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            I guess the next question is, what do you base your belief that the Bible is God’s Word on?

          • LynnRH

            We true Christians do believe the Holy Bible to be the true Word of God. God used prophets to speak and write down His Word. And then God uses miracles like fulfilled prophecy to authenticate what the prophets spoke. So besides all the so far fulfilled prophecies to validate the Bible today we also have some research that does.

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            I’ve looked into some of those claims of fulfilled prophecies, I don’t buy them. I guess if I did, I’d be a Christian. But I suppose that’s a whole other thing. My point is really about the evidence you accept vs. the evidence you don’t.

          • Susan Perelka

            Amen!

          • Railpirate

            It actually kind of claims both that it isn’t chose and that there is no single gene responsible… Resulting in a lovely set of possibilities outside of both that are still before someones birth determined such as (But not limited to):

            – A combinations of genes causing this, rather then a single gene.
            – An unknown single gene is responsible, we don’t know our entire genetic “Code” yet so it’d be impossible to rule out at this point.
            – Womb conditions (Current evidence kind of points here.)

          • VETCON

            “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.” Gen 2:24

            “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. “For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret.” Eph 5: 11-12

            I have known lesbians and homosexuals and have worked alongside them but I never shared in their happiness. Why? Because to do so would be nothing short of condonment. Yes, they have been ostracized but scripture teaches to correct one of their erring ways. I’d rather take a chance on offending a homosexual by planting the Word, than to not say anything at all. There’s too much at stake.

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            Amen.

          • SFBruce

            I think it’s a shame that you can’t share a gay person’s happiness in a job promotion, or a great vacation they may have taken. I understand your disapproval of their physical intimacy, but when everything is said and done, they’re human beings. I’m not interested in sharing competing texts from the Bible. but I have noticed Jesus interacted with many different sorts of people.

          • LynnRH

            Jesus did interact with many different sorts of people. All people are sinners. Not one is sinless except Jesus. But as in one of the examples of someone who was caught sinning, the woman caught in adultery, Jesus told her to go and sin no more. So yes, Jesus loves all sinners. but that doesn’t mean He condones your sin. When He forgives you He expects you to turn from your sin. Not keep “pooping” in His face.

          • SFBruce

            Before he told her to go and sin no more, he stopped a mob from stoning her to death, with this, “Let anyone among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” Yes, he called her to live a better life, but not before challenging a mob with a lesson on mercy, compassion and forgiveness. Many Christians, as well as followers of other faith traditions, believe that there’s no sin in loving same sex relationships between adults.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            so tell us all what Christ was writing in the sand during this incident …………

          • LynnRH

            It really doesn’t matter to me what other so called “Christians” and other followers of other faith traditions believe. The only One that matters to me is the One True God, Jehovah God of creation. He is the only One who has the right to make the rules. When He says something is a sin against Him I will be turning away from it.

            Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: It is an abomination.

            Like I said……..I don’t know how much plainer He can make it.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “but when everything is said and done, they’re human beings. ”

            that reject Christ ….. and they NEED a Saviour ……………

          • VETCON

            Yes He did but ask yourself why. The answer is: “Jesus answered them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.” Luke 5:31

          • Darwin C

            The bible says Jesus commanded “Rejoice with those who rejoice. Weep with those who weep.”

            Funny how so many can’t seem to manage that.

        • Bryan E. Finn

          You would never know if a baby was gay, because people don’t have a sexual awakening until puberty.

          • Ben Welliver

            Then they aren’t BORN gay.

          • Bryan E. Finn

            Who ever said they were? Who cares if they were born that way or whether it happens in early life? Either way it’s not anything that can be changed.

          • LynnRH

            All you have to do is repent of that sin, ask Jesus to be your Savior and then tell Satan to get behind you and get your eyes on Jesus! I guarantee it WILL be something that CAN be changed.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            they are BORN SINNERS ….. from the womb they are sinners …….

        • Darwin C

          Have you ever seen a right handed baby? Yet handedness is inborn, not chosen, even it does not become apparent until later in life.

          • LynnRH

            And being right handed is not a sin. God has never said being right handed is a sin! How ridiculous!

          • Darwin C

            But being left-handed was considered a moral failing. Children were beaten in school for using their left hand, well into the 20th century. King George VIs stuttering was caused/aggravated by being forced to use his right hand even though he was left handed. This is also true for many other stutterers.

            Within the last three years or so, a public school teacher in Oklahoma told a five year to use their right hand because using one’s left hand is of the devil.

            Handedness is actually a perfect analogy. Handedness is a poorly understood inborn trait. It has zero moral implications. Yet across cultures and millennia, humans vilified the less common manifestation as a moral failing. And now those humans look both cruel and ignorant.

            Nobody chooses to be gay. People say god permitted the slavery because the people were weak and/or we don’t understand the culture of that time. Maybe the gay clobber verses should be read in the same manner as rules for beating one’s slaves and prohibitions on tattoos.

            Because the simple fact is that attraction is inborn. It cannot be chosen or changed. And forming a long term, committed relationship with another person is neither moral nor immoral.

          • LynnRH

            So sorry……but God says it is an abomination to Him. I don’t know how He can say it any plainer than that! He also says adultery, fornication, murder, lying, idol worship, dishonoring your parents, and others ARE SIN. You have the right to do things as you please because you will face God with your sin one day and that will be between the two of you. For me…..I choose to obey God to the best of my ability.

        • Railpirate

          I’ve never seen a baby with hair under it’s armpits, yet, we are genetically determined on the amount of hair growth there.

          Just because something isn’t visible or didn’t manifest yet at that age, doesn’t mean you wouldn’t be determined from birth to be a certain way or have certain attributes. That’s not a realistic argument.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Again, you have no scientific proof, just conjecture. Pull up an actual scientific study proving there is a homosexual gene. You can’t because there isn’t one.

          • Railpirate

            The issue here is that Ben Welliver made an argument from ignorance, by giving an example with a rediculous equivication, which I broke by giving an example in which that equivication doesn’t work.

            I made no claim on what is true or not.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Now you’re backpedaling.

          • Robert M. Owen

            No, he never said what you claim he did. Do you know what “backpedaling” means?

    • james blue

      I was born heterosexual and am proud of it. I assume you are heterosexual, so are you ashamed? I was born an American and I’m proud of it, celebrate it on my birthday and have a day set aside in July as well.

      • KDK2

        If you say you’re a Christian, why do you spend more time defending sodomy than you do defending Christianity?

        • Amos Moses – He>i

          cause he AINT one ………. OBVIOUSLY ………….

        • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

          If you read his many of his post you can see his fruit is not good. And the Word say we will know by their fruit. Pray for him.

          • Robert M. Owen

            God just told me that all these prayers you are directing against the people who are disagreeing with you are being used to fund medical science to educate you against your hatred. So keep it up.

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            The Lord told me not to trust you. I trust God……

        • Bryan E. Finn

          Sorry, did someone mention sodomy? I didn’t see it.

      • Amos Moses – He>i

        proud of something that has not one thing to do with your effort …. NACISSISM …… antithetical to scripture ……. nominal christianity …….. oh …. and utter bovine scatology …… tent pitched towards Sodom …….

        • lolaalex

          Oy

      • Ben Welliver

        Crock. Every word.

        • james blue

          Are you not heterosexual?

    • Bryan E. Finn

      It’s a terrible way LGBT people are treated by society. If you have never had a pride night, be thankful you never needed one.

      • Give your life and all that is in it to God through His son Christ Jesus and you will not need a “pride night” either.

        Only Christ Jesus can set us free from the sins that enslave us.

        • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

          Amen!

        • Jennifer Eccles

          If a person is homosexual, they should not be made to feel ashamed. That’s why pride nights exist.

          • It is God and His Holy Word that convicts all of us for all sin.
            ——————
            Romans 6:23 New King James Version (NKJV)
            23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

          • LynnRH

            Sinning against God SHOULD make you feel ashamed after what He went through before His cruel death for EVEN homosexuals.

            Pride night exists to SPIT in His face instead of a thank you to Him for what He went through for EVEN homosexuals.

          • Jennifer Eccles

            I can’t even begin to fathom the level of the mind that believes being homosexual is a sin against God. What do you propose they do, kill themselves?

          • LynnRH

            Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination. KJB

            I don’t know how much plainer God has to say it.

            “What do you propose they do, kill themselves?”
            I propose they turn from their sin just like everyone else is asked to by the God Almighty. He asks us to turn from our sins and sin no more.

            “I can’t even begin to fathom the level of the mind that believes being homosexual is a sin against God.”
            The level of the mind that thinks like that is the one that has made the decision to agree with what God says is a sin. Because He is God and we are NOT.

          • Jennifer Eccles

            “Turn from their sin”. Please explain what you mean by that. You want them to castrate themselves? You think turning to Jesus is going to turn them into heterosexuals? Tell me what you think “turning from their sin” means, and what it will change.

          • LynnRH

            As in another example of turning from your sin is, if I have an addiction to porn, or adultery, or any other sexual sin or an other sin at all….God says He will give you the strength to break the bondage of that sin. You have to come to Him and ask for forgiveness and acknowledge you are a sinner and need Him to be your Lord and Savior. But just like an alcoholic……the first step is to acknowledge you are an alcoholic. Or in this case that we are talking about, you have to agree that you are a sinner and therefore have need for a Savior. Then turn away means to not commit that sin again. God can give you the strength to do that. I’m living proof of it. My sin was not homosexuality but I had my own sin I needed Him to help me with. And He didn’t break His promise; He NEVER does.

          • Jennifer Eccles

            No, you are still not being clear about what you mean. What is the sin you feel homosexuals need to turn from? Is it the act of sexual intercourse? So you are basically demanding that they live sexless, loveless lives and you think this is what your God is prescribing? Do you think that if they simply stop having sexual intercourse they will no longer be homosexuals? Do you not see that you are asking them for something that is at best cruel and at worst impossible?

          • LynnRH

            I hope this is a little plainer for ya…………the sin they need to turn away from is their lust for someone of the same sex. Actually the lust for anyone other than your own spouse of the opposite sex is a sexual sin.

            God does say to turn from your sin and sin no more. So you can twist His words in any shape or form you want to trying to make me look like the fool but unless you get your thinking cap on straight to agree with the Lord on this matter, you will be the one standing as a fool before the Lord God on judgement day.

            Obviously you did not read or at least did not even try to comprehend what I wrote in the previous post about that God helps those who wants to turn from their sin. He give you the strength.

            I can see already you are going to be ANOTHER one of those who want to just go around, and around, and around with this. And I don’t intend to take my precious time playing your game. I did what I intended to do and that was to share God’s Word. I planted a seed. Now it’s up to you and God to take it from here. Signing off………

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            “the sin they need to turn away from is their lust for someone of the
            same sex. Actually the lust for anyone other than your own spouse of the
            opposite sex is a sexual sin.”

            Is “lust” something people can control, though? I don’t think so. I’ve heard a lot of Christians say it isn’t the feeling that is the “sin”, it’s acting on it that is.

          • Rhesus Peanut Buttercup

            Lust is a word that seems to get used when it applies to desire not contained to a straight married Christian couple. It’s a ridiculous word in my opinion.

          • Jennifer Eccles

            I don’t know how much you know about homosexuality, but they don’t have a “lust” for someone of the same sex any more than a straight person has a “lust” for someone of the opposite sex. What they have is a normal human sexual attraction. And EXACTLY like straight people, when they cultivate it, it becomes love. That’s how this thing works.

            And we’ve given them gay marriage precisely so they can be committed to their spouses exactly like straight people, except people like yourself don’t want to GIVE that to them. So once again, you are asking the impossible of them.

            You keep saying “turn from your sin” and “turn towards God” like this is some simple solution that will please God, but you’re doing nothing less than castrating them and demanding that they live their lives without love and companionship.

          • Susan Perelka

            The Creator made them male and female, the Creator designed sex, the Creator gets to determine how ALL are to be used. His creation, His rules. Simple. Anything else is rebellion against the Creator… aka God.

          • Railpirate

            You know what leviticus also forbids (To give some rather odd examples, not everything as that’d be multiple pages of listing):

            – Failing to include salt in offerings to God (2:13) (I mean ehr…)
            – Eating fat (3:17) (Congratulations, we need fat to survive as humans.)
            – Eating blood (3:17) (Any meat contains blood, so we should all be vegans.)
            – Failing to testify against any wrongdoing you’ve been told about (5:1) (Is dangerous as what you’ve been told about doesn’t have to be the truth.)
            – Touching an unclean animal (5:2) (Goodbye with your pet pig.)
            – Letting your hair become unkempt (10:6) (Goodbye to messy hair!)
            – Tearing your clothes (10:6) (oops, I got stuck in a shrub while playing outside, can’t tear my clothes though, I guess I am stuck here forever.)
            – Drinking alcohol in holy places (10:9) (Goodbye to the wine in church.)
            – Eating an animal which doesn’t both chew cud and has a divided hoof (11:4-7) (Camel, Rabbit, Pig and some other animals can’t be eaten.) (Good luck with that, Pig bones is in nearly everything we eat, as gelatin is made of it.)
            – Touching the carcass of any of the above (11:8) (Bye contact sports)
            – Eating – or touching the carcass of – any seafood without fins or scales (11:10-12) (Goodbye to all shellfish.)
            – Eating – or touching the carcass of – flying insects with four legs, unless those legs are jointed (11:20-22) (I just wanted to point out how oddly specific this one is tbh)
            – Eating – or touching the carcass of – any creature which crawls on many legs, or its belly (11:41-42) (I guess you can’t get rid of an infestation now.)
            – Going to church within 33 days after giving birth to a boy (12:4) (Oops?)
            – Going to church within 66 days after giving birth to a girl (12:5) (More Oops?)
            – Reaping to the very edges of a field (19:9) (Again, very oddly specific.)
            – Doing anything to endanger a neighbour’s life (19:16) (Trolley problem, what if endangering your neighbours life can save 20 other neighbours who would otherwise die.)
            – Mixing fabrics in clothing (19:19) (Goodbye to all your clothes!, But wait, you also can’t be naked. Good luck covering yourself by shower curtain, oh wait, that’s also a mixed fabric. Ehr… Help?)
            – Planting different seeds in the same field (19:19) (This is even required for some plants we eat fruit of to grow healthily…)
            – Sleeping with another man’s slave (19:20)
            – Eating fruit from a tree within four years of planting it (19:23) (Some fruit trees don’t last four years, making certain fruits inedable.)
            – Trimming your beard (19:27) (Ehr, again, I don’t see a lot of christians not trimming their beard.)
            – Cutting your hair at the sides (19:27) (But I thought messy hair was disallowed, to avoid messy hair you kind of have to cut some hair at the sides…)
            – Getting tattoos (19:28) (…)
            – Not standing in the presence of the elderly (19:32) (Too bad for wheelchair users)
            – Mistreating foreigners – “the foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born” (19:33-34) (So, As the majority of anti immigration rethoric comes from christian conservatives, leviticus is as good to argue against them, as it is to argue against homosexuality.)
            – Entering a place where there’s a dead body as a priest (21:11) (This can’t realistically be avoided in some cases.)
            – Slaughtering a cow/sheep and its young on the same day (22:28) (How specific, Let’s hope no drought happens requiring us to do so or to otherwise die.)
            – Working on the Sabbath (23:3) (Bye to our much needed doctors, police officers, bus drivers, firefighters etc. etc.)
            – Inflicting an injury (24:17-22) (Ehr… This can’t even be avoided.)
            – Selling an Israelite as a slave (foreigners are fine) (25:42) (Now you wonder how people used the bible to argue slavery is perfectly
            fine… Also partially because of leviticus setting rules about what can
            and can’t be done to slaves.)

            I don’t know how much plainer God has to say it. It is physically impossible to turn away from all of these sins, including for you.

            But to actually make it plain, The book of leviticus is part of mosiac law, which applied to the people in Israel back in the day. It’s noted specifically to apply to them in over a dozen verses, not to others.

            So the entire book is kind of inapplicable to begin with.

            But let’s note it again either way:
            So you use leviticus to argue against homosexuality? You are either picking and chosing verses by ignoring the rest of leviticus, uneducated, or calling for the return of slavery among other things.

          • Susan Perelka

            Anything that goes outside the “boundaries” that God, the Creator, determined, is sin against Him. Rebelling against His “authority”, which is rightfully His because He made it all, not us. We are the created, not the Creator.

            Homosexuality, adultery, effeminate, fornication are all sexual sins, (there are other types of sin also). Why? Because God determined that we are male and female, he designed sex also, and gets the right to determine how it is to be used in His creation. Since it is His creation, therefore it is His right to set the rules.

            ANYTHING outside what He determined He wanted it to be, is “rebellion” against the Creator and deserves death. No sin gets a pass just because society wants it to be that way. ALL of us have sinned against the Creator. All of us deserve His punishment. We are all born in sin, it just manifests in many different ways.

            Rebellion is “doing what is right in our own eyes” and refusing to accept “what is right in Gods eyes”.

            Look, there is a God, who is mightier than us. Be grateful that His mercy is greater than His wrath and He is offering you forgiveness through Jesus Christ, because NONE of us deserves His grace (undeserved favor), we deserve death.

          • Railpirate

            So many issues, where do I start.

            “Anything that goes outside the “boundaries” that God, the Creator, determined, is sin against Him.”
            You drove a car, you’ve sinned. Good luck rotting in Hell. (Statement has implications which literally incriminates everyone for technological or machincal advancements.)

            “Homosexuality, adultery, effeminate, fornication are all sexual sins, (there are other types of sin also).”
            Yet Homosexuality, neither effeminate really belong in that line at all, not because it’s not there in modern versions of the bible, but because translation is rather questionable in these verses or context gives a specific context, like worshipping false gods by method of homosexuality (as we have traced, was something practiced to worship the pegan god Cybelle, which was quite prominent in the area back in the day, for example, in Romans.)

            ” Why? Because God determined that we are male and female, he designed
            sex also, and gets the right to determine how it is to be used in His
            creation.”
            Then you might rather want to question why people are gay, considdering the bible says he makes everyone.

            “Since it is His creation, therefore it is His right to set the rules.”
            This country was created by racists, therefor it’s the racists right to set racist rules. No, Creation doesn’t specifically say his rules would be right, but I don’t see a point in argueing against that, as that’s more an attribute in your religion then a flaw you make here in logic. – I guess I just wanted to point out here how flawed that argument is in itself.

            “ANYTHING outside what He determined He wanted it to be, is “rebellion” against the Creator and deserves death.”
            Again, good luck dieing for using a car.

            “The day of judgement is coming, where will you stand? Condemned or forgiven?”
            As an agnostic: I hope that whoever is there, or whatever (if anything), can see I tried to do good for the world by helping others and understands why I made the choices I made.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            What did you just try to say? Do you even know?

          • Railpirate

            Yes, sinning against (The version of) the god you believe in, should make people who believe something else (about that god) feel very ashamed.

            *sigh*, No.

          • Susan Perelka

            God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.

        • Susan Perelka

          AMEN!

        • Railpirate

          Yep, but you will need a funeral, Trying to (Forcefully) change your sexuality is one of the biggest causes of suicide under LGBT youth. – If that’s what you mean by getting Jesus to set someone free,..

          Just from a neutral standpoint on religion, That seems like something not desireable even for the people who do have this religion.

          • Being a born again child of God is not about religion. It is about having a personal one on one relationship with the Creator, Lord and Savior. This is what being a Christian is all about.

            Jesus does not force people to change. God changes us when we come to Him through His son Jesus and ask Him to change us. Then and only then are we a new creature in Christ.
            —————–
            2 Corinthians 5:17 New King James Version (NKJV)
            17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

  • I wonder, if these same Baseball Teams would do the same of behalf of practicing murderers, kidnappers, or rapists? What’s the difference, all four (the previous three and sodomites) are all capital criminals according to the Only One with the authority to determine what constitutes a capital crime.

    This would never occur under a biblical government, which only goes to prove that the Constitutional Republic created by a cadre of Enlightenment and Masonic theistic rationalists is anything but biblically compatible, despite what many Christians leaders are telling their flocks.

    For evidence, see free online book “Bible Law vs. the United States Constitution: The Christian Perspective,” in which every Article and Amendment is examined by the Bible. Click on my name, then our website. Go to our Online Books page and click on the top entry.

    Then find out how much you REALLY know about the Constitution as compared to the Bible. Take our 10-question Constitution Survey in the right-hand sidebar and receive a complimentary copy of the 85-page “Primer” of “BL vs. USC.”

    • SFBruce

      As you acknowledge, we don’t live in a “biblical government;” we have a constitutional republic which guarantees religious liberty, even to those who don’t agree with you.

      Murder, kidnapping and rape are all horrific crimes against a victim. A loving relationship between two adults is a completely different matter. That said, if you believe same sex intimacy is immoral, don’t engage in it.

      • SFBruce, thanks responding and especially for helping to make my point: The 18th-century Constitution is incompatible with the Bible, as juxtaposed with the 17th-century Christian Colonial Constitutions that established governments of, by, and for God expressly based upon His moral law and responsible for America’s former greatness.

        America was once great but not for the reason most people believe it was. In fact, quite the opposite – a classic case of Isaiah 5:20, calling evil good and good evil.

        Yahweh, God of the Bible, blesses nations (makes them great and prosperous) when they look to Him as their sovereign and thus His moral law as the standard for government and society, per Deuteronomy 4:4-8, 28:1-14, etc. Consequently, America’s greatness was the result of the 17th-century Christian Colonial governments of, by, and for God established upon His unchanging moral law:

        Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America, 1835: “They [the 17th-century Colonials] exercised the rights of sovereignty; they named their magistrates, concluded peace or declared war, made police regulations, and enacted laws as if their allegiance was due only to God. Nothing can be more curious and, at the same time more instructive, than the legislation of that period; it is there that the solution of the great social problem which the United States now presents to the world is to be found [in perfect fulfillment of Deuteronomy 4:5-8, demonstrating the continuing veracity of Yahweh’s law and its accompanying blessings, per Deuteronomy 28:1-14].

        “Amongst these documents we shall notice, as especially characteristic, the code of laws promulgated by the little State of Connecticut in 1650. The legislators of Connecticut begin with the penal laws, and … they borrow their provisions from the text of Holy Writ … copied verbatim from the books of Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy.…” (Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America, 2 vols. (New York: NY: The Colonial Press, 1899) vol. 1, pp. 36-37)

        On the other hand, Yahweh curses nations who reject His sovereignty and replace His law with their own man-made surrogates. Thus, America began to be cursed (by God’s long suffering only incrementally at first) when the 18th-century founders replaced the 17th-century Colonial governments with their own humanistic government of, by, and for the people based upon capricious Enlightenment traditions. Without repentance for these sins of sedition our complicity therein, it was inevitable that America would find herself teetering on the precipice of moral depravity and destruction.

        For more regarding these two polar opposite forms of government, see Chapter 3 “The Preamble: WE THE PEOPLE vs. YAHWEH” of free online book “Bible Law vs. the United States Constitution: The Christian Perspective.” Click on my name, then our website. Go to our Online Books page, click on the top entry, and scroll down to Chapter 3.

        • SFBruce

          Most Americans don’t believe our country is a Christian nation. Your problem with that minority who believe it is a Christian nation is that it’s not Christian enough. Fortunately, those who share your beliefs are an even tinier minority.

          This will be my last comment to you on this topic. Since you believe people like me should be put to death, we have no basis for a civil conversation about anything.

          • I don’t believe it’s presently a Christian nation either, not even close. This, thanks to that cadre of Enlightenment and Masonic theistic rationalists (aka, the constitutional framers) who replaced the 17th-century Colonial governments of, by, and for God for their own humanistic government of, by, and for the people based upon man-made capricious traditions, comparable to what’s condemned by Christ in Matthew 15:6-9.

          • Susan Perelka

            But the world and everything in it, belongs to the One (God) who made it, despite mans protests against it. Judgement is coming.

      • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

        You wouldn’t know murder, kidnapping, and rape were wrong if God didn’t show you that. He’s also telling you that homosexuality is wrong. You’re sinning against yourself.

        • Bryan E. Finn

          I don’t need God to know those things are wrong. As it happens I believe in God, but all you need is to be raised with a bit of empathy and the golden rule to know acts of abuse against other people are wrong.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You do know that the “Golden Rule” is from the Bible, don’t you?

          • SFBruce

            All major religions, and many not so major, embrace some form of the Golden Rule.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            The Golden Rule originated with Jesus Christ. Anyone else who adopts it is copying Him.

          • SFBruce

            Buddha (Siddhartha Gautama, c. 623–543 BC)
            “Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful.” – Udana-Varga 5:18.

            This is just one example which predates Jesus.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            sure … satan steals all of that which is good and perverts it ….. and NO …… Christ predates the UNIVERSES CREATION ….. including Udana-Varga 5:18. ……. so FAIL ………..

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Jesus can’t be predated because He existed before time began. Also, what Jesus Christ quoted in the New Covenant, actually comes from the Old Covenant.

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            This might be going off on a tangent on my part, but “before time began” makes no sense. If time had a beginning, there is no such thing as “before” that. It’s like saying “north of the North Pole.”

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Sorry that went over your head. Time had to be invented.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            created …………

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Yeah, your word choice is more accurate. Thanks, bro.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            glad to help ….;-)

          • Susan Perelka

            I love the body of Christ.

          • Robert M. Owen

            How perverted.

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            Dear Abba Father, If I have found favor in Your sight please Rebuke this in the Name of Your Son Jesus Ia Pray.

          • Robert M. Owen

            Dear God in heaven, please punish LadyInChrist and all her hateful friends for pretending to be Christians and attacking homosexuals.

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            Dear Abba Father, i seek You to protect all Christians on this site from this persons hate. And I seek Your Will for this person. In Jesus Name.

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            Okay, so if I accept that time had to invented, that still leaves you with the question of how could anything be before anything else if there was no time?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            by one who exists outside of it ….. OBVIOUSLY ………

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            I’m just saying, if there’s no time, there’s no before, no after, no 5 minutes ago, no next Tuesday at 2 pm, etc.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            so you embrace insanity ………

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            even Hawking recognized that time came into being ……. and that there is such a thing as “outside of time” ….. and the bible records this event …. in Genesis …… and sad to inform you … that is SCIENCE …… and not your flawed imagination ……..

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            “and the bible records this event …. in Genesis …… and sad to inform you … that is SCIENCE”

            A supposed recording of an event in a book, whether it was true or not, isn’t science. And I wasn’t actually arguing about whether time came into being or not; I just am saying that if it did, it makes no sense to say anything was “before” that.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “A supposed recording of an event in a book, whether it was true or not, isn’t science.”

            ok … so Hawking is a liar and a fraud …. thanks for establishing that ………..

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            With that leap in logic, you should try out for the Olympics in the long jump.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope …. your statement about Hawkings supposed “science” ….. if it applies to scripture then it applies to Hawking ….. same standard …. no leaping required …………

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

            see …. Hawking even used the EXACT same words of the scriptures ….. IN THE BEGINNING …. the beginning of what …… TIME ……….. Hawking had to STEAL from the scriptures ……

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            You apparently still think I’m arguing about time having a beginning. I’m not.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            oh … so you want to argue semantics … i see ………

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            I’m always up to sem antics.

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            Amen

          • Jennifer Eccles

            No. It is far older than that.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Why don’t you prove it then?

          • Jennifer Eccles

            You’ve already been told the same thing by several other people, do I really need to? Try Google.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            So no proof then?

          • Jennifer Eccles

            Google will help you, so will Wikipedia…you can start under the section called Antiquity where you have a choice of where to start, you can start with Ancient Egypt, or Ancient Greece, or Ancient Persia. There’s no shortage.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            LOL Anyone can write anything they want on those sites. Why not use actual academic sources? 🙂

          • Jennifer Eccles

            I think it’s already been explained to you that Wikipedia also contains external sources, which you are free to look into. And then you’ll find the “actual academic sources” you are requesting.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Ha ha! Good trolling!

          • Jennifer Eccles

            Please explain why it is trolling to point out to you that Wikipedia backs up its claims with external references. Unless, of course, you are trolling yourself, which I suspect is probably the case.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Stop it! My sides are hurting! 🙂

          • Jennifer Eccles

            How simple it would have been to answer the question, but no, you had to troll.

        • MessengerFromSevenSeas

          “You wouldn’t know murder, kidnapping, and rape were wrong if God didn’t show you that.”

          Uh, no. Every society throughout history, including ones that had never even heard of the Bible or the Judeo-Christian God disapproved of those things. If they hadn’t, they likely wouldn’t have lasted very long.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            They didn’t. That’s why there was a Great Flood.

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            Except there wasn’t.

          • Susan Perelka

            Yep, there was and judgement is coming again, just this time by fire.

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            There’s a series of YouTube videos by a guy named AronRa, I haven’t watched all of them yet because there’s quite a few, entitled “How (insert name of a branch of science) disproves Noah’s flood.” Basically the gist is that our modern scientific knowledge says that the whole story is implausible for a number of different reasons.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            right … which is why the Mayans made human sacrifice to the sun ……. so your point is garbage ……….. and MANY numerous civilizations have allowed murder as part of their daily life ….. INCLUDING the US …… ABORTION is MURDER …… whether you recognize it as such or not …….

      • VETCON

        The founders never intended for God to be removed from our daily operations. Read some of the original proclamations made by our Congress, calling on the people to set aside a certain day for prayer. First, to ask for the forgiveness of sins, and then to continue blessing us. This was during our Revolutionary War years.

        There are several. Oh and by the way, they were directing us to pray to the God we find in the Bible.

      • Amos Moses – He>i

        “A loving relationship between two adults is a completely different matter.”

        and two of the SSA persons does not qualify as such …. it is pure NACISSISM ……

  • Jay Edwards

    Guess what. The last two worldwide “signs” Jesus gave us (just before the big GATHERING & RESTORING) are the “days of Noah” (insane physical violence) and the “days of Lot” (the days of you-know-what that many don’t want to think a LOT about even though it’s now constantly in all our faces, young as well as old – the pride that goeth before the end-time fall!). Check out Luke 17 for the rest of the picture, and Google “God to Same-Sexers: Hurry Up” if you still don’t know what I’m talking about!

  • VETCON

    I am so sad for my country. Growing up in the 60’s I remember when stores were closed on Sundays. Where were Americans? Most were at worship service praising Him who blesses us.

    It was no accident that many sporting events began being broadcast on Sundays, especially late morning. Through the years, this practice crept into youth sports, be it football, baseball, or soccer. Worshipping God was placed on hold because “little Johnny has a soccer game”.

    Now this degenerate and abhorent lifestyle is being thrust upon our your with increasing fervor. Time honored institutions are being manipulated and perverted for sinister purposes. The Boy Scouts now allow openly homosexuals to lead.

    When exactly did we “flat line” in America?

    “Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
    Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
    Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!” Isaiah 5:20

    • I’m 64 yrs old and know full well what you speak of and agree with you 100%.

      I share your sorrow.

      • LynnRH

        I’m 63 yrs old yesterday and I totally agree with you too!

        LOL, sorry. I meant to reply to VETCON.

        • My pleasure to have your agreement also.

        • By the way……Happy belated birthday!

          • LynnRH

            LOL thanks 🙂

    • MessengerFromSevenSeas

      Of all the things to be sad about that are going on in our country…..

      Drug abuse? Homelessness? Poverty? Crime? No, none of those….”Pride Night.”

      • VETCON

        Go back to your boyfriend’s basement troll.

        • MessengerFromSevenSeas

          I’m just saying I think people who are more concerned about this sort of thing than the things I mentioned seem to me to have their priorities a bit backwards.

          FYI, I don’t have a boyfriend. Or a girlfriend.

        • Railpirate

          It’s very telling, that the moment someone steps in that has a disagreement with you, they are suddenly a troll. – I am not going to make further comments on what you’ve written here, I’ll just be labled as a troll as well.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            If you came here with facts instead of making stuff up, you might be taken more seriously. You haven’t presented any facts. You’ve just posted fabrications and conjectures as though they were facts.

          • Robert M. Owen

            You do that constantly, Guest Verified. And then say you’ve proven them when you haven’t, and then you give up and start calling people Peewee, and then you run away. You never change tactics. Never.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            *yawn* Can’t you guys try harder?

          • Robert M. Owen

            Well, change your play manual Charlie, because it’s so predictable. You were more fun when you were saying there were paid homosexual trolls here. That at least was hilarious.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Wow, I thought you were going to pretend you were a new poster? 🙂

          • Robert M. Owen

            Why does it matter who I am when you’re full of shit in everything you say? Don’t you realize how pathetic you look when you can’t even stay interested in a discussion because everyone is the imaginary 1000 headed Peewee monster? LOL
            You’re the biggest load on two feet on this entire forum. I suppose now you’ll run away for a week like you always do.

          • Lily Of The Valley

            Next time I see you present any facts would be the first.

          • VETCON

            Tissue?

  • Amos Moses – He>i

    why is it that professional sports feels the need to spit in the faces of those who would, i guess, otherwise want to give them money ………………

    • MessengerFromSevenSeas

      Probably because they’re not “spitting in the faces” of nearly as many people as you think they are.

      • Amos Moses – He>i

        making it NO LESS than spitting …………..

  • lolaalex

    But as they persisted asking him, he stood up and he said to them, “He
    among you who is without sin, let him first cast a stone upon her.” John 8:7

    Matthew 7:1-3

    1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

    2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

    3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

    We can bat this around all day long. I’ll find a verse that defends my views and you’ll find one that defends yours. Are you afraid that their “GAY” is going to rub off on you like wet paint? For goodness sake, live and let live. Get off this infernal contraption and go volunteer at the local soup kitchen.

  • Why would anyone want to celebrate being a pervert and why would anyone condone the acts or the celebration? Is there no shame or fear of God left anywhere with anyone anymore?

    • Bryan E. Finn

      No one’s talking about being a pervert.

      • All that is LGBT is a perversion and those who live that life and celebrate that life are by definition perverts.

        • Jennifer Eccles

          That’s a statement of hate, sir.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            based on what sir …………..

          • Jennifer Eccles

            Where do you want me to start? The word “pervert” is probably a good place. Why do you keep expecting homosexuals to be anything other than what they are?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            why do you keep them pigeonholed into a state of mind that says they are INCAPABLE of change …… that seems particularly hateful and bigoted ……….

          • No it is not. That is a statement of truth. God has said in both the Old and New Covenants/Testaments that same sex sex aka homosexuality is a sin and abomination. He hates that particular sin so much that He rained down fire from Heaven upon Sodom and Gomorrah because of it. Neither God nor I hate anyone but God hates sin….ALL sin. That is why He gave us His son Christ Jesus to break the chains of the sins that enslave us and become children of His.

          • Jennifer Eccles

            It’s not a statement of truth, and even many of your fellow Christians would agree. You are taking this attitude that all gay people are these militant, angry, political people who dress provocatively in pride parades and want to shock. That’s a very small percentage of them and you ignore the lonely ones who are hurting and want only to be loved by someone and live quiet and private lives. You tar them all with the same brush. Worst of all, you leave them with impossible options…they can’t simply turn straight, and they can’t realistically be expected to live lives without love and companionship.

          • None of what you said is true. The truth is becoming a child of God sets us free from the chains of sin and we become a new creation in and through Christ Jesus.

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            Amen.

          • Jennifer Eccles

            None of what I’ve said is true? I speak to homosexuals daily, of course it’s true. I work with suicidal gay people DAILY, Doug.

          • You are saying “I” am doing this and “I” am doing that and you do not know me and what you say that “I” do is simply not true.

          • Jennifer Eccles

            I’m truly sorry for what your faith has done to you.

          • And what would that be?

          • Jennifer Eccles

            You’ve hardened your heart against homosexuals because of a rigid interpretation of an ancient book and ignored all the science on the matter. You consider them all degenerate perverts and don’t consider for a moment that homosexual is the only thing they can be.

          • We are all born to be heterosexual and no…..my heart is not hardened.

          • Jennifer Eccles

            Ignoring science does not make it untrue. No, we are not all born to be heterosexual. It occurs in all species.

          • We are not animals. We are created in the image and likeness of God our creator. What is okay with animals is not okay with the crown of creation…..mankind. God said it is a sin. God does not create or cause anyone to sin therefore no one is born to be any part of LGBT. As with all sin it is a choice and as with all sin only Christ Jesus is the answer and cure.

          • Jennifer Eccles

            Yes we are animals, and this is what being anti-science does to you. You are not going to get a homosexual to turn into a heterosexual, it’s not possible. And if you follow a religion that is too backwards to accept that, then you’re going to be at loggerheads with much kinder people than yourself for a very long time.

          • In other words you are an atheist?

          • Jennifer Eccles

            Not relevant.

          • Actually it really is relevant.

          • Jennifer Eccles

            I can believe there is a creator but you’re not going to have any luck convincing me that he hates his own creation.

          • Your are 100% correct. God does not hate His creation, He hates sin aka disobedience. No doubt you have seen this before but now is a good time for both of us to see it again.
            ======================
            John 3:16-17 New King James Version (NKJV)
            16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

          • Jennifer Eccles

            A homosexual does not sin by falling in love.

          • I did not say they do but I would not recommend it because of what that leads to in the mind and in actuality.

          • Jennifer Eccles

            What does it lead to? Two people in love. Which you think is beautiful when it’s a straight couple. There is just as much longevity in homosexual relationships.

          • LynnRH

            Not going to be able to convince you that He hates sexual sin (which includes homosexuality) either because you consider yourself bigger than God obviously.

          • Susan Perelka

            Wow, nothing gets them so upset as when someone starts to say they will pray for them. Demons trembling at the name of Jesus.

            Preach it Doug, give them your testimony at the mercy God had towards you, at His power to transform your life. True christian have “experienced” His power, we praise Him for it! We know what it is to be IN CHRIST JESUS!

          • AMEN!

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            Obviously I’m missing part of this whole conversation now because some posts got deleted, but speaking for myself, people saying they’ll pray for me doesn’t upset me. It really does nothing for me one way or the other.

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            “We are not animals.”

            Yes, we are. If you want to get more specific, we’re the smartest and least hairy of the great apes.

          • Sorry but that is not true. We are human beings made in the image and likeness of God.

          • MessengerFromSevenSeas

            We’re the most intelligent animals (though occasionally I wonder about that!), but we’re definitely animals.

          • You are in opposition to God. The Creator of the universe and mankind.

          • Lily Of The Valley

            Apparently, scientific facts are “in opposition to God” then. What “MessengerFromSevenSeas” was saying is something you could find in any grade school science textbook.

          • Genesis 1:26 New King James Version (NKJV)
            26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over [a]all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

          • Lily Of The Valley

            Maybe it’s kinda changing the subject, but I’ve always wondered about this….why does that say “OUR image” instead of “MY image”?

          • Because God is a triune God in that He is God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Three the same yet separate as His will dictates. All three speaking with one voice and one accord. He was speaking to God the Son whom we know as Jesus Christ.

          • Lily Of The Valley

            OK I guess that makes sense.

          • LynnRH

            Ignoring God’s Word does not make it untrue.

          • Rhesus Peanut Buttercup

            That is quite correct. There are many YouTube videos showing this.

          • I was addicted to sexual immorality, drugs and being a drunk for 20 yrs. I was forgiven, set free and healed by Christ Jesus in 1997.

          • Jennifer Eccles

            None of those things are comparable in any way to homosexuality. Not a single one.

          • hahahahaha…….seriously? You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. I lived it for 20 yrs. What experience do you have?

          • Jennifer Eccles

            I am a licensed therapist and I deal with it daily in my professional vocation.

          • Well then you must know so much more than someone like me that actually lived what you have only read about or heard anecdotally. And that is not even adding into the mix that God and His Holy Word is real and 100% true. If your patients turned it all over to Christ Jesus you would be out of a job.

          • Jennifer Eccles

            It isn’t anecdotal to have grieving crying people in front of you who want to kill themselves because they cannot be accepted by their families, churches, jobs, etc. If your faith was as good as you claim it is, it would be providing comfort and encouragement for these people, not telling them how evil they are.

          • Like I once was, they are spiritually and mentally ill. They need to know that God loves them right here and right now. He loves them so very much that He wants them to be children of His by coming to Him through His son Christ Jesus.

            That is exactly where I was and that is exactly what I did and I have never regretted it one bit. Just like them I wanted to die also. I checked into a rundown motel room to do jus that and saw a Gideon’s Bible on the nightstand. Aimlessly thumbing through it I ran across the following and Knew in that moment of time it was God telling me what to do if I really wanted to be free.
            ————————–
            James 4:4-10 New King James Version (NKJV)
            4 Adulterers and[a] adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. 5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, “The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously”?
            6 But He gives more grace. Therefore He says:
            “God resists the proud,
            But gives grace to the humble.”[b]
            Humility Cures Worldliness
            7 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. 8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. 9 Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. 10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.
            ———————
            This Word of God literally saved my life and started me on the road to healing and recovery. I would not trade the life I have now for anyone or anything and I owe it all to Christ Jesus.

          • Jennifer Eccles

            Oh what nonsense. I’m really sorry you are at war with science, but no, homosexuality is not an illness. Never was, and never will be. What is far more reprehensible is convincing perfectly normal people they are ill and your religion provides a miracle cure.

          • The internet is replete with success stories about those who were lost in the sin of homosexuality be set free by being born again through the Blood Atonement and Holy Spirit of Christ Jesus. It is no mystery, it is not hard to do. Trust in Him and let His Holy Spirit do the rest. It has worked for millions and it will always work for just one more, and another and another still until that unavoidable last day and then God will shut the door to salvation.

          • Jennifer Eccles

            None of those people turned straight. They remain homosexual and have merely been convinced to suppress it and/or be celibate. That isn’t success, that’s cruelty.

          • And you know this to be 100% true…….how?

          • Jennifer Eccles

            Because it’s my line of work! I read all the papers, documents, case studies, etc. There is simply no proof that sexual orientation can be changed.

          • LynnRH

            You got that Doug? You aren’t changed after all. Jennifer says so cause she reads all the papers and stuff. She’s the authority on this matter; not you or anyone else who just “thinks” you’ve changed. LOL

          • Robert M. Owen

            That’s correct. “Self-delusion” is the expression that Doug suffers from. It’s a powerful thing, but it’s not the truth.

          • LynnRH

            Sounds to me like Doug thinks it’s success for him.

          • Darwin C

            You are living the love and compassion religious people claim to value. Hugs for you and your clients.

          • Jennifer Eccles

            Thanks, although I am finding many of my comments here censored and I cannot imagine why since I’m being respectful and breaking no rules.

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            It seems unprofessional for a licensed therapist to be trolling Christians on a Christian site. I do not understand your motives or the reason you are doing it, but God knows your motives and the reasons for you doing it.I pray for God;s Will to be done concerning your trolling Christians on a Christian site.

          • Jennifer Eccles

            How you can get “trolling” out of anything I have said here is unbelievable. I think what’s really going on is you don’t like having your uncompassionate attitudes pointed out, especially considering you’re Christian. I want to love and help people, and some here want only to condemn and judge. If that makes me a “troll” then so be it.

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            God knows why you and the other two who are trolling with you, are here. God Knows what the tree of you are doing and He knows why. I have put the three usernames on my prayer list. Even if all three are the same person or just people just connected to each other through trolling Christians. I will be praying. And if you are telling the truth about being a licensed therapist it is unprofessional to be doing what you are doing. I will also be praying for the men and women who are coming to you.I will pray for their healing as I believe God is able to heal them.

          • Jennifer Eccles

            I showed up here based on an article I saw in my news feed. I didn’t
            even have an account to comment with so I created one, I don’t know anyone else here. And continuing to tell me you’re praying for me doesn’t do a lot to excuse the cold attitudes I am reading here. Being a licensed therapist does not exclude me from providing my viewpoint on a discussion site, and as whatever brand of Christian you are you don’t have a monopoly on the conversation here. I suggest praying for a bit of empathy and compassion towards homosexuals. It would suit you well.

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            God knows when and why you show up here to Troll Christians on this site. I will keep prying for you and fro the ones you are trolling. I will pray for the men and women who come to you for therapy for God to heal them and to lead them to true freedom. I believe God is able to heal them.

          • Jennifer Eccles

            I don’t troll anyone, if you read my posts you’d know that. I guess it is just uncomfortable for you to acknowledge that your Christian ideas are occasionally not particularly Christian at all. I would not be permitted to treat clients using faith, it would be seen as unethical. I trained using scientific principles.

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            Yes you do. You come here with your sock puppets to troll. And as a licensed therapist that is unprofessional of you to be trolling Christians on this and other Christian site. I will be praying.God see what you are doing. You can deny it to my all you want. You cannot hide what you are doing from God.

          • Jennifer Eccles

            Lady, I DEFY you to tell me a single thing I’ve said that is a troll comment. Everything I have said I can defend, and I do this work because I love humanity and want to help them. I don’t have “sock puppet accounts”, you were told exactly how I came to be here, and if you don’t believe me then deal with it yourself. Pray for yourself; for kindness and for compassion.

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            You can defend all that you said on the humanist side. But, God knows on the spiritual side. You can hide you true attentions from me. But you can not hide it from God. And God has shown me a side of you that I will pray for.
            May God show you the truth on love, kindness and compassion. May God show you that trolling Christians is wrong and show a lack of love, compassion, and kindness.

          • Jennifer Eccles

            I am hiding nothing from God. I disagree with you about your attitude on homosexuality and I know many Christians who do as well. You don’t seem to like or accept that idea very much. Maybe you could stand to re-examine what you believe in, and why.

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            I know you are not hiding anything from God. He is able to see into your very heart. You do not know nor do you understand what I feel for the homosexuals. Like I have told you before and I will tell you again. Last year just before my birthday a homosexual young man that I knew and worked with was killed in a suicide murder. Also a dog was killed with them I worked with him for 5 years. I should have been praying for him before he died. But he was so young who would have thought he would die like that. That is a regret I will take with me to my grave. One regret that I have that will be with me the rest of my life.

          • Jennifer Eccles

            Well, we disagree on many things obviously. Kindly refrain from calling me a troll and I’ll go about my business and leave you alone.

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            Please stop trolling them.

          • Jennifer Eccles

            I’m not. You don’t know me, and I haven’t posted here prior to yesterday.

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            You are right that I do not know you. But I see what you are doing to Christians you are against. And even though I do not know you, God knows you. He knew you before you were born.He knows everything I don’t know. My biggest prayer is that one day you will see the love He had for you on the day His Son died for you.

            I want to say one more thing, you just said you have not posted prior to yesterday. God knows that is not true as you already told me you come here based on stories you see on this site. God knows the truth.

          • Jennifer Eccles

            I saw stories on this site yesterday after registering and looking around. Your suspicions are very unattractive.

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            As I said, I do not trust you as you have already prove to me, you can not be trusted. You changed what you said to me just enough to show me God is right about you. You also went private after telling me I could check you post. That also shows me not to trust you. And you say my suspicions are very unattractive? Is that supposed to hurt my feeling in some way? I have gone through so much in my life that it is hard to hurt my feelings. My feelings are hurt by the the way you gang up on others. It is not about me. It is about the ones you are ganging up on.

          • Rhesus Peanut Buttercup

            I just read through this exchange and I see no one trolling, I just see a spirited debate going on.

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            Hi “Rhesus Peanut Buttercup”, how are you doing today? May 17th, 2018 a new Toll. A new username to ad to my prayer list. I know I know I have you on my prayer list under some of your sock puppets. But the more prayer for you the better.

            Dear Abba Father I come to You on behalf of this Troll. I seek Your Will for the person behind this username in Jesus Name I pray Amen.

          • Rhesus Peanut Buttercup

            I am new here. Why are you praying for me?

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            Funny, that’s the same thing “Jennifer Eccles” said to me. Kinda makes me wonder………….
            Maybe, maybe not, maybe, maybe not, maybe, maybe not, maybe…… No mater what many prayers for you. 😛

          • Rhesus Peanut Buttercup

            But I’m not arguing with you. I’m just pointing out that having a different opinion than you isn’t trolling. You have your back up for some reason.

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            God Knows the truth about you and Jessica Eccles………….

          • Rhesus Peanut Buttercup

            I’m really not sure what’s put you on the defensive, but I’m not interested in arguing with you. Pray for me if you want to. I don’t know Jennifer or Jessica Eccles.

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            God know if you do or not. So don’t worry. It doesn’t matter what I think. I meant Jennifer. I have a friend named Jessica. Must have Jessica on the brain.

          • Rhesus Peanut Buttercup

            Jennifer Eccles is a song by the Hollies lol

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            That must be why you chose that name. “Ugh” now that song will be in my head. Change the name to “Stop Stop Stop. Or change it to “Bus Stop” or He Ain’t Heavy, he’s My Brother………..

          • Rhesus Peanut Buttercup

            Why I chose what name?

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            Yes, why you chose that name. Come on I wasn’t born yesterday. If there is any truth in you or any honor……………..

          • Rhesus Peanut Buttercup

            Oh, we’re back to that. Well, enjoy your evening, I have some other things to do.

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            I am very sorry, but I do not trust you and I do not believe what you say. I hope with all my heart that you do not provide therapy for anyone. But in case you do, I will be praying for all the men and women you say you give therapy to. It is not professional to troll people using sock puppets. Not professional to gang up on Christians the way you do. I will be praying.
            You say i could read your post to know you are not trolling. # 1 the account you re on is new. You also told me you come here based on stories on here. That shows you come here on other accounts. There are also three other new accounts who have been trolling “Amos”, “Doug”, and also Guest. God know the truth.

            I believe God over you. God has never lied to me. I trust God over you. God saved me when I wanted to end my life many years ago. No one else could reach me. Only God was able to reach me. If it had not been for God, I would not be here.

          • Jennifer Eccles

            I saw this story and had to have an account to comment on it, otherwise I would not have bothered. That’s why this is a new account. I’m not ganging up on Christians, I’m speaking out against some very destructive attitudes that most Christians I know do not possess. That’s what people do on message forums. If you don’t like it, may I suggest you adopt a more Christian attitude?
            It sounds like you do have a legitimate problem here with trolls based on what you’ve said but I’m not one of them. Maybe the administrator here shouldn’t be so overzealous in censoring and banning. It clearly doesn’t stop people from coming back.
            From what I have read here, no one’s trolling Doug, Amos, or Guest. They are simply disagreeing with them and you don’t like it. People are allowed to have opinions different than yours, Doug’s, Amos’s and Guest’s.

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            Opinions are one thing. Sometimes we can learn from other peoples opinions. But for you to gang up on them with sock puppets is wrong. Especially for someone who claims to be a therapist. Very unprofessional. Again I will be praying. I seek God’s Will to be done. May God protect the ones you hate so much that you will gang up on them like you do. It grieves my heart.

          • Jennifer Eccles

            The ridiculous sock puppet accusations again? Why am I even bothering to speak to you? You’re not interested in hearing a word I say.

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            Abba Father, I come to You in prayer on behalf of the person behind the username “Jennifer Eccles”. I don’t know what else to say. I seek Your Will for this person in all areas of his life. If it is Your Will for him to be saved, let him be saved according to Your Will. In Jesus Name.

          • Susan Perelka

            Amen!

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            Are you saying you NEVER EVER came on this site “ChristianNewsNetwork”under a different account?? Not even once?? Do you say this on your word of honor?? Do you have any honor in what you are saying to me??
            There is really nothing I can say other than God knows if you are now lying to me. I’ll leave it between you and God………….

          • Jennifer Eccles

            Yes, that’s what I’m saying, but since this place is the way it is, I’m done here.

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            I still don’t trust you. But it is between you and God. I’m glad you are done here. One less person for you to troll. But I will still keep praying.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            I’ve simply started ignoring them because they are obviously previously banned members, in many cases the very same member playing multiple rolls. They cite the same sources that have long been proven bogus, and they repeat the same tired, worn, easily disproven arguments.

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            It’s kind of funny when he will say something to you on one of his accounts. And then he will say the same thing to you on another account he has. They do say the same things over and over again. It’s kind of sad even though it’s funny at the same time.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            It really is. I’ve learned to just scroll past all the hubris. 🙂

          • Robert M. Owen

            As if you far-right Christians aren’t predicable yourselves!

            Does the message have random trails of periods and no seemingly complete sentences? It’s Amos Moses.
            Does the message mock you, state that it has reported you, or ask you if you want a tissue when you comment on an injustice? It’s Jason Todd/Jerome Horowitz/Maxwell Edison/slidellman4life, aka Matthew T. Mason.
            Does the message make unsubstantiated claims but the writer claims he has already proven them several times, misquote you, then switch gears and call you “Peewee” or some other sock account name, and then disappear
            for a week or so, all the time using a smug, self-satisfied smiley? It’s Guest Verified.
            Does the message contain a prayer to Jesus?
            a) Is it a general prayer usually starting with “Abba Father”? It’s Susan Perelka,
            b) Is it a prayer asking Jesus to punish someone and does it mention the person to be punished by name? It’s LadyInChrist.
            Does the message focus entirely on homosexuals but refer to them as perverts (or other names) and talk extensively about Satan and hell? It’s Doug Bristow.
            Does the message say nothing more than “Amen” and is not one of the above? It’s Lady Checkmate.

            This is all troll behavior that Christian News Network chooses to allow because you claim to be Christians (although your actions say otherwise).

            And you all say “But this is a CHRISTIAN forum!” Yeah, and why is it you all gather like flies around the anti-gay topics where you can unleash all your rage and hate, but you ignore the other 99% of Christian News Network’s stories? Riddle me THAT, Peewee.

          • Susan Perelka

            Sister, I come in agreement with you in prayer. In Jesus Name. AMEN!

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            Amen!

          • LynnRH

            You hear that LadyInChristInGodITrust? We have uncompassionate attitudes because we simply state what God has already said; that sexual sin (as well as homosexual sin) is a sin. We instead need to do like her and love and help people continue on in their sin. Now THAT would really please God.

          • Jennifer Eccles

            You have uncompassionate attitudes because you reject what science knows to be true in favor of a SINGLE interpretation of scripture which many of your fellow Christians disagree with.

          • LynnRH

            I always reject science when it is in disagreement with the Lord God. He alone is my authority. That single interpretation of scripture which many fellow (false Christians) disagree with was written by ancient prophets inspired by God. All of you unsaved are the ones who have misinterpreted His Word.

          • Robert M. Owen

            No, it seems unprofessional for something who rejects science to be telling a licensed therapist they’re wrong. Do you also tell airplane pilots how to fly?

          • Susan Perelka

            Proverbs 3 ” Trust in the Lord with all your heart. Lean not on your own understanding, acknowledge Him (God) in all you ways, and He will direct your steps”

            A licensed therapist who is leaning on your own understanding.

          • LynnRH

            Oh WHATEVER! lol

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            Praise God, for your deliverance.

          • Susan Perelka

            Preach it brother and PRAISE GOD!!!!!!

          • Amen. PRAISE HIM!!!!

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            Amen.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Praise God!

          • AMEN!!!! PRAISE GOD!!!

      • Amos Moses – He>i

        thus the problem …………

  • MLB now immersed in the PC nonsense.

  • BravesFan

    June is going to be a looooooong month.

  • robert boe

    we hate blacks pride nights will be next than .Since people love there sins so much.

  • robert boe

    As of late were not only noticing a lot of support for homosexuality but support on the web for other sins to such as hatred for black people and hatred for white people as well .these are also gaining ground as support for homosexuality is. And hate for Christians is also at a all time high.

    • Darwin C

      Disgust over the hypocrisy of certain vocal christians is growing.

      Examples
      A pastor in Georgia, Kenneth Adkins, coldly condemned the victims of the Pulse nightclub shooting, saying “they got what they deserved.” He was just convicted of molesting children, crimes that occurred before and after making those statements that caused more pain to grieving families and injured people.

      Mike Ritze, the Oklahoma state legislator who pushed to get the 10 commandments on government property, has been caught lying about his military service, including wearing an unearned purple heart.

      Nobody cares if you are a Christian. But people do care when people cause pain to grieving families or force their religion onto others.

      It is unkind and dishonest behavior and hypocrisy that is getting pushback.

      • LynnRH

        Yes, we true Christians are unhappy with the hypocrisy of false Christians too. We are busy teaching people that there are those false Christians out there and to beware. There have been several of those stories posted on this Christian website.

        And nobody is trying to force their religion onto anybody! Anyone can take the Word of God we speak or they can completely ignore it. But we true Christians WILL continue to do as we were told by Him and that is to proclaim the Word of God.

    • LynnRH

      “And hate for Christians is also at a all time high”
      That’s because the morals of our world has gone down the toilet! The unsaved do not care what God says.

  • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

    Dear Abba Father, I come to You in Prayer on behalf of the trolls who are coming to this site to toll Christians. I pray for Your protection upon the Christians they are against. I pray for Your Will for the Salvation for these trolls. Let them see Your love for them. In Jesus Name Amen.

    • Susan Perelka

      Amen!

  • Susan Perelka

    God Almighty created everything in the heavens and on the earth, (He is evident by His creation). YOU are His creation. Mankind has REBELLED against the Creators order and have gone their own way. ALL of us have sinned and can’t stand in the presence of a Holy God, we wouldn’t survive it! (Our best is nothing but filthy rags before Him). God would be perfectly “just” in destroying us, we are a hard-hearted, stiff-necked, and rebellious people. We deserve His wrath.

    HOWEVER, His mercy is greater than His wrath. His love AND justice were both accomplished on that cross. God made Himself flesh, SO THAT He could take our punishment. A man, to take the punishment of a man. (He was made in our likeness). Jesus came for this very purpose, to save us from Gods wrath, to offer us forgiveness SO THAT we could have peace with God, instead of His just judgement.

    Jesus had no sin, the only man ever to be completely “sinless”. There will never be another who could accomplish this, why? Because He wasn’t just “Son of man”, He was also “Son of God”. Immanuel “God with us”. (Unique.) He can “justly” take the punishment for our sins, because He had none of His own to pay for. The wages of sin is death. We ALL have sinned and fall short of His glory. Jesus is the ONLY way.

    We ALL stand before the Judge (Creator) of everything condemned! But praise God’s mercy, He sent Jesus! He took our sin debt upon Himself and paid it in full, now we can “justly” be set free. Christ paid our punishment that we deserved! Love AND justice on that Cross. He rose from the dead because death could not hold Him, no sin of His own to pay for. He is Holy God!!!!!

    It is God’s grace (undeserved favor), through “faith” in Jesus Christ. A free gift “offered” by God to mankind. Acknowledge you are a sinner before God and ask for His mercy. You have been going your own way and breaking God’s boundaries, which He has the right to set over HIS creation. “Accept” by faith what Jesus Christ did on that cross for you and then you will “receive” this gift. You will be sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise for the day of redemption. You will no longer stand condemned before God because you have been set free by the Son, You will be safe from Gods wrath in Christ Jesus. You will go from death to life.

    Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father (God) except through Him.

    Don’t hesitate, you don’t know how long your life will be. Don’t harden your heart to this amazing gift God is offering you. You only “possess” a gift IF…. you “accept” that gift. If you don’t accept it, than you don’t possess it, and you still stand condemned before God. You will pay for your sins yourself! BUT GOD loves you and desires to save you. Just believe!

    This is an amazing sacrifice provided for us in love. Why would you reject such a beautiful offer?

    Please, think upon this……. God bless you.

    • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

      Abba Father, I seek You in prayer on behalf of those who are coming to this site through hatred of the Christians on this site. I pray that you will take what is meant for evil and change it to something good. Search and find men and women to put into their lives who will lead them to You and to Your Truth. Open their eyes,ears, mind and their hearts. Lead them to deliverance. Show them Your love for them. Lead them to repentance. In Jesus Name Amen.

  • Susan Perelka

    Abba Father, Have mercy on people and open their eyes to Your truth. Lead and direct Your servants, who are attempting to speak Your truth. Guide our lips so that we can glorify You. Help us, by Your Spirit, to give an answer for the hope that is in us. Grant us boldness and confidence to proclaim the gospel. Make our faces as steel against the mockers and scoffers who gnash their teeth at us. Strengthen us Lord, to do the work You have set before us. May it bring You glory. In Jesus Mighty name, our beloved Lord and Savior. AMEN

    • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

      In Jesus Name I agree with this prayer. Amen