Donald Trump Says He Still Doesn’t ‘Know About’ Carson’s Seventh-Day Adventist Religion

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Photo Credit: Gage Skidmore

Donald Trump defended his comments about Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson’s Seventh-Day Adventist religious beliefs on Sunday, stating that he said nothing bad about them and reiterated that he doesn’t know “about it.”

“I know nothing about it really. I’m a Presbyterian and I had mentioned that, and I did say I don’t know about it. And in fact those are my exact words,” Trump said on ABC’s This Week. “I didn’t say anything bad about it. I just don’t know about it. I would certainly give an apology if I said something bad about it. But I didn’t. All I said was I don’t know about it.”

At a campaign event in Iowa a day earlier, Trump appeared to portray Carson’s faith as out of the mainstream.

“I love Iowa. And, look, I don’t have to say it, I’m Presbyterian,” Trump said. “Can you believe it? Nobody believes I’m Presbyterian. I’m Presbyterian. I’m Presbyterian. I’m Presbyterian. Boy, that’s down the middle of the road folks, in all fairness. I mean, Seventh-day Adventist, I don’t know about. I just don’t know about.”

Seventh-Day Adventists follow the teachings of the late Ellen G. White, who they believe to have been a prophetess. They observe Saturday as the Sabbath, and as White wrote in her book “The Great Controversy,” opine that “[w]hen Sunday observance shall be enforced by law, … those who continue in transgression [with Sunday worship] will receive ‘the mark of the beast.’”

“This church would not be where it is without the special guidance given it by God through Ellen White in the writings of the Spirit of Prophecy,” Ted N.C. Wilson, the grandson of SDA President Nathaniel Wilson stated this month at a Spirit of Prophecy Symposium at Andrews University. “In the Seventh-day Adventist Church we accept Ellen G. White as a modern servant of the Lord and prophet.”

Adventists also believe in the “annihilation of the wicked,” rejecting the doctrine of eternal torment out of their assertion that the Bible “did not mean eternal punishing, but rather punishment in the world to come that ends in cessation of being,” as outlined in “The Conditionalist Faith of Our Fathers” by Adventist author LeRoy Edwin Froom.

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Some also teach that Jesus was Michael the archangel before manifesting in the flesh on Earth.

“Seventh-day Adventists … teach—unlike most Christians—that the biblical references to the celestial Michael are references to Jesus himself in his pre-incarnate state,” explained Russ Winkle for the Adventist publication Spectrum. “While this is not a fundamental belief of Seventh-day Adventism, it is a belief that Seventh-day Adventists have promoted.”

Trump has been under scrutiny for his own faith in recent months, stating in July that he “loves God,” but is not is “not sure” if he has ever “asked for forgiveness.” Days later, he asked CNN’s Anderson Cooper why he needed to “repent” if he is not doing anything wrong.

“If I make a mistake, yeah, I think [repentance is] great. But I try not to make mistakes,” Trump said. “Why do I have to repent, why do I have to ask for forgiveness, if you are not making mistakes? I work hard. I’m an honorable person. I have thousands of people who work for me. I have employed tens of thousands of people over the years.”

As previously reported, last month, a group of nearly 30 clergy laid hands on and prayed for Trump’s potential presidency at his Trump Tower in New York, including prosperity preachers Kenneth Copeland and Paula White.

“Father, we just secure him right now by the blood of Jesus. We thank you that no weapon formed against him will be able to prosper and any tongue that rises against him will be condemned according to the word of God,” White, who leads New Destiny Christian Center in Florida, prayed. “I secure him. I secure his children. I secure his calling and his mantle.”


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  • Linda Cooner Anderson

    Obviously Christian News doesn’t know about Adventists either. They believe in the teachings of the Holy Bible; the Ten Commandments, particularly the 7th day Sabbath; and that Jesus Christ is the son of God and the Messiah.

    • Jose Lopps

      HI Linda. Are you a SDA? And if so, is CN mistaken about the SDA view of Jesus being Michael the archangel? Not wanting a debate. I am genuinely curious.

    • GibbyD

      but keeping the ten commandments , or looking like you are , is not going to save anyone. If you try and keep any of the commandments in order to try and save yourself or be worthy of Heaven , God says you would then be obligated to keep all the 613 commandments. God makes no difference between ceremonial and moral laws. If you are guilty of even one of them , you are guilty of all. If you attempt to try and keep any of them in order to be saved, you need to keep all of them. This is why The Scriptures reveal that Christ is the END OF THE LAW to all that believe. “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.” ( Romans 10:4)KJB.

      We are not commanded on what day to be gathered unto and IN The Name of The LORD Jesus Christ for worship. The Jewish Sabbath was what it was and still is. The Christian church though follow the example of The Apostles who met on the first day of the week, Sunday. It has been from that moment on from the day of The Resurrection that believers have been gathered together unto and in The Name of The LORD Jesus Christ for breaking of bread, reading God’s Word, fellowship , worship etc. Jesus is God incarnate . He bore our sins in His own body while on the cross of Calvary. Jesus died and arose from the dead. Jesus has gone to prepare a place with Him in Glory for all who have had , ” repentance toward God and faith toward The LORD Jesus Christ” ( Acts 20:21). Jesus said ” Ye MUST be born again ” ( John 3:3; 1st Peter 1:23; 2 Corinthians 5:17)KJB. ( Ephesians 2:8,9; 1st John 5:13; Philippians 1:6)KJB

      • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

        The differences between the moral law and ceremonial law is broad and clear…

        Listen carefully to what Moses said in Deuteronomy 4:13-14;

        “And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone. And the Lord commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it.” Deuteronomy 4:13, 14

        Notice how Moses clearly separated the Ten Commandments, which “he commanded you” from the statutes which “he commanded me” to give the people.

        In 2 Kings 21:8 God himself makes a clear distinction by stating;

        “Neither will I make the feet of Israel move any more out of the land which I gave their fathers; only if they will observe to do according to all that I have commanded them and according to all the law that my servant Moses commanded them.” 2 Kings 21:8

        We once again see a clear distinction being made between the two types of laws.

        Furthermore, the ceremonial law is called the “law of Moses” (Luke 2:22) while the moral law is called the “law of the Lord” (Isaiah 5:24) The ceremonial law is called the “law contained in ordinances” (Eph. 2:15) while the moral law is called “the royal law” (James 2:8) The ceremonial law is termed “the law of a carnal commandment” (Hebrews 7:16) while the moral law, it is affirmed, “We know that the law is spiritual.” (Romans 7:14) The ceremonial law was written by Moses in a book (2 Chronicals 35:12) while the moral law was written by God in stone. (Exodus 31:18; 32:16) The ceremonial law was placed beside the Ark (Deut 31:26) while the moral law was placed inside the Ark. (Exodus 40:20)

        The ceremonial law has annual Sabbath’s (Leviticus 23:23-38) while the moral law has a weekly Sabbath. (Exodus 20:8-11) The ceremonial law ended at the cross (Ephesians 2:15) while the moral law will stand forever. (Luke 16:17) The ceremonial law was added because of sin (Galatians 3:19) while the moral law points out sin. (Romans 7:7; 3:20) The ceremonial law is contrary to us and against us (Colossians 2:14-16) while the moral law is not grievous. (1 John 5:3) The ceremonial law made nothing perfect (Hebrews 7:19) while the moral law is perfect. (Psalm 19:7) The ceremonial law judges no one (Colossians 2:14-16) while the moral law judges all people. (James 2:10-12)

        The ceremonial is a law of which “there was made of necessity a change” (Heb. 7:12) while the moral is that law of which Christ says, “Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” (Matt. 5:18). The ceremonial law was a “shadow of good things to come” (Heb. 10:1), and was only imposed “until the time of reformation” (Heb. 9:10) while the moral law was a moral code, of which it is said by John, “Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.” (1 John 3:4). The ceremonial law is a “yoke” not able to be borne (Acts 15:10) while the moral law is that “law of liberty” by which we shall be judged (James 2:8-12).

        The ceremonial is that law which Christ “abolished in His flesh” (Eph. 2:15) while the moral is that Law which He did not come to destroy (Matt. 5:17). The ceremonial law is termed “the handwriting of ordinances” “which was contrary to us,” which was nailed to the cross and taken out of the way (Col. 2:14) while the moral law is that law which He came to “magnify and make honorable” (Isa. 42:21). The ceremonial law was a temporary law which was disannulled “for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof” (Heb. 7:18) while the moral law is an eternal unchanging law which “cannot be made void”. (Rom. 3:31)

        • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

          By the way, Christ is the end (telos= object, aim, point, goal) of the law, not termination as you suggest. Christ didn’t preach lawlessness (Matthew 5:17) but rather magnified the law and made it honorable. (Isaiah 42:21) This is why all ten commandments are repeated in the new testament. And yes, the 7th day Sabbath still remains despite your prejudice. (Hebrews 4)

          Many claim the 7th day Sabbath was for the Jews only, but if that’s the case, one could easily ask the question; “Does that mean the other nine commandments were for the Jews only as well?” To think that we are free to blaspheme God, lie, cheat, steal, or commit murder because we aren’t literal Jews is not a reasonable thing to consider. No one would argue that the other nine commandments only applied to the Jews so why all the fuss over the 4th commandment then? Luke, a Gentile writer of the New Testament, often refers to things that were particularly Jewish. He writes of the “nation of the Jews,” “the people of the Jews,” “the land of the Jews,” and the “synagogue of the Jews” (Acts 10:22; 12:11; 10:39; 14:1). But he never refers to the “sabbath of the Jews,” although he mentions the Sabbath repeatedly.

          Likewise, Jesus himself declared the Sabbath to be “made for man” (Mark 2:27) and even used a generic word (Strong’s G444) that includes all of mankind, the equivalent of the Hebrew word (Strong’s H120) used in connection with the institution of marriage (Genesis 2:18), further proving it was not intended for the Jews only. The Sabbath and the Marriage law were instituted before mankind sinned proving without a doubt they are both eternal precepts from our Creator. (Genesis 2:2, 22-24) Is it any wonder then why the Sabbath and the family unit are the two most targeted and attacked principles of the Christian faith?

          The first day of the week is only mentioned eight times in the New Testament and when one takes a closer at the context of each reference it becomes evident that not one of them gives evidence to a change taking place. If you haven’t done so already I would encourage you to take a closer look at each reference for yourself. Those who believe Sunday worship honors the resurrection of Jesus often cite the upper room meeting of the disciples on the same day that He rose from the grave. (Acts 1:13) They argue that this gathering on the first day of the week was meant to celebrate His resurrection, but the Bible records another set of circumstances.

          Mark writes that even though the disciples were confronted with the eyewitness story of Mary, they “believed not“. (Mark 16:11) After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country. And they went and told it unto the other disciples but “neither believed they them“. (Mark 16:13) Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their “unbelief” and hardness of heart, because they “believed not” them which had seen him after he was risen (Mark 16:14).

          The truth of the matter is that Baptism is the memorial of Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection. (Romans 6:4) while the 7th day Sabbath is a memorial of Creation. (Genesis 2:2-3; Exodus 20:11; Hebrews 4:3-5) We honor and celebrate Him by partaking of the Lords Supper, or communion. Fermentation is a symbol of sin therefore the act of partaking of the unleavened bread and unfermented wine symbolically represents the putting away of sin from our lives by accepting Christ as our substitute and surety. (1 Corinthians 5:8)

          • KBR

            “ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?”
            I might ask, which is more important, that persons come together to worship Christ, or which day they do so?

          • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

            Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. Mark 7:9

            I might ask, which is more important, that persons worship the true God of heaven on His terms, or false gods based on man-made traditions?

          • GibbyD

            You have not read the material explaining the false doctrine that you believe. The devil has blinded the mind of them that believe not . LORD Jesus , please help this person see the truth. Jesus Christ is THE LORD !! Jesus Christ is come in The Flesh !!!

        • GibbyD

          The Bible makes no distinction as to keeping ALL the old Testament LAWs , the so called “ceremonial” and “Moral”. The point is that under the Old Covenant , ALL of them were to be obeyed. NOBODY was ever able to do it and is why the laws included the sacrifices system for sin. 10 False distinctions between the 10 Commandments and the ceremonial law exposed!

          I. The ten commandments are abolished, Illustrations:

          Someone asked me, “Is it true you are a minister for a church and don’t keep the ten commandments?” “That is right, I don’t keep any of the 10 commandments.” I replied. The person continued, “You mean you lie, murder and commit adultery?” “Of course not.” I replied, “Although every one of the ten commandments are abolished, the law of Christ carried them forward into the New Testament”. The Sabbath commandment was stated to be abolished in Col 2:14-16. This means that under the New Covenant law, 9 of the 10 commandments have been carried forward and one is abolished.

          The old and New Constitutions of Canada: 1867 AD constitution vs. 1982 AD Constitution. On 17 April 1982, Canada abolished its founding 1867 AD constitution and replaced it with a new code of law. Story:The was a man got fired from his job because his skin was black. He took his employer to court and quoted the 1867 constitution in the trial. The judge said, “The laws you are quoting are abolished. You will win your case, but you are using a an old constitutional law that has been abolished. Go home and base your arguments on the new 1981 constitution otherwise you will lose the case, because the old law is no longer in force. In fact the wording and meaning of the law is virtually identical from the Old and New Constitution. But you must argue your case under the law that is currently in force, not the law that that is abolished.

          II. The Sabbatarian false distinction they see in Col 1:14 and Eph 2:15:

          All Sabbatarians create a false and non-existent distinction within the law of Moses. They usually refer to this man-made distinction as: 1. “the 10 commandments”, and 2. “the Ceremonial law”.

          This man made distinction is most visibly present in passages like Col 1:14 and Eph 2:15. In these passages, they say that only the “Ceremonial law” was abolished leaving the “10 commandment” law still in force for Christians today. If this is true, then we most certainly would need to keep the 7th day Sabbath.

          But we will prove that the ten commandment law is clearly abolished and Christians do not keep that code of law any more. They keep a new and better law called the Law of Christ: Gal 6:2.

          III. How Seventh-day Adventists teach this false distinction:

          The Old Testament is a single unit of laws. Some are moral and others are ceremonial. But there is no way to establish any distinction of two laws! “The Moral Law” and “The Ceremonial Law” do not exist as separate codes of law, as Adventists were forced to invent! Reproduced below is a chart every Sabbath keeper is familiar with. Problem is that it is completely unprovable with scripture. The only place this distinction exists is in the minds of Sabbatarians.How Sabbatarians try to establish the false distinction:The Ten CommandmentsThe Ceremonial LawWritten on Stone
          (Ex 31:18)Written in a book, Book of the law
          (Deut 31:24,7; Deut 31:24)Placed in the Ark
          (Deut 10:5)Placed on side of Ark
          (Deut 31:25)Written by God’s finger
          (Ex 31:18, 32:16)Written by Moses’ finger
          (Deut 31:9; Ex 24:4)Spoken by God
          (Ex 20:1,22)Spoken by Moses
          (Ex 24:3)God gaveMoses gaveThe Law of God, God’s law, The law
          (eternal)The Law of Moses, Moses Law
          (Done away)The Moral LawThe Ceremonial LawBreaking is sin
          1 Jn 3:4Merely prescribes offerings for sin.
          Homosexuality, Drunkenness, pride, pre-marital sex are not sin? Death penalty for homosexuals: Lev 20:13! CommandmentsStatutes, Ordinances and DecreesStill in force today?
          (Ps 111:7-8)Nailed to the cross!
          (Eph 2:14)

          IV. The Seventh-day Adventists false distinction refuted:False Distinction #1:
          Breaking is sin vs. Merely prescribes offerings for sin.

          Homosexuality, Drunkenness, pride, pre-marital sex are not sin?

          Death penalty for homosexuals: Lev 20:13!False Distinction #2:
          God gave vs. Moses gave

          Sabbatarians will try to establish a distinction in the Old Testament law by focusing on what was “written/given” by God vs. what was “written/given” by Moses. But God is said to have given the Law of Moses and Moses is said to have given the Law of God.

          God gave the “Law of Moses” Ezra 7:6 “Ezra… a scribe skilled in the law of Moses, which the Lord God of Israel had given”

          Moses gave the “Law of God” Nehemiah 10:29 “walk in God’s law, which was given through Moses”

          John 7:19 “Did not Moses give you the Law, and yet none of you carries out the Law? Why do you seek to kill Me?”

          God gave the Book of law of Moses: Nehemiah 8:1 “bring the book of the law of Moses which the Lord had given to Israel”

          God gave book of law of the Lord: 2 Chron 34:14 “the priest found the book of the law of the Lord given by Moses”

          Moses gave the 10 commandments: “For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother'” Mk 7:9-10

          When you read the 10 commandments, you “read Moses”: 2 Corinthians 3:3,15

          Paul’s writings about the prophets wives being silent in the churches are called the “Lords commandments”: 1 Cor 14:35-37 (According to Sabbatarians logic, women keeping silent in the churches must be one of the 10 commandments since every time they see “Lord’s Commandments” they automatically call it the ten commandments!)

          Interchangeability of terms in Nehemiah 9:13-14 proves there is no distinction found in the Old Testament laws of God and Moses!
          False Distinction #3:
          The Moral Law vs. The Ceremonial Law

          Sabbatarians attempt to create a false distinction between the “10 commandments” and the “book of the law” by claiming one contains moral law and the other ceremonial laws:

          The “ceremonial law” contains the “10 commandment moral law” twice!

          The truth is, it is impossible to create any distinction based upon Moral vs. Ceremonial laws. Sabbatarians create the false impression that there is nothing moral in the “book of the law” and nothing ceremonial in the 10 commandments when in fact nothing could be further from the truth.

          The 4th commandment, the Sabbath, is by every definition a ceremonial law. Keeping a day is ceremony.

          Jesus said the two greatest moral laws were not part of the 10 commandments! Mt 22:36-40 (Too bad for Sabbatarians: Great place for Jesus to quote the Sabbath law!) The “Ceremonial law” contained the two greatest “moral commandments”: love God and love they neighbor

          The expression “Ceremonial law” is not found in scripture: the words “ceremonial, ceremony, ceremonies and all roots etc” are never found in the same verse as the word “law or laws”

          The expression “Moral law” is not found in scripture: the words “Moral, Morals, morality and all roots” are never found in the same verse as the word “law or laws”

          The 5 books of Moses are filled with moral laws not contained in the 10 commandments! Ex 22:21-22,31; Ex 23:2; Lev 19:2,14-18; Deut 16:18

          Interesting that according to Sabbatarians, the whole of the Moral law (Sabbatarians believe is the 10 commandments/ Law of God) hangs upon 2 laws found in the book of the law. “Love God with all heart” & “Love your neighbor as self” (Sabbatarians believe the book of law is the law of Moses and was the ceremonial law) In other words, the two most important moral laws are not found in the Ten Commandments, but in the Book of the Law, which Adventists say is abolished!

          • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

            And again…

            I’m starting to think my comment really struck a nerve with you. Good…

          • GibbyD

            I am just concerned that you may not hear the truth and I would be guilty of not doing all I could to present the truth to you. You have heard the truth and thus I am not responsible for your damnation and eternity in Hell and The Lake of Fire. Please repent of your works system and trust in Jesus’s perfect work complete finished work and sacrifice on the cross.

          • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

            The LAW is for people like YOU not me…

            Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient… 1 Timothy 1:9

          • GibbyD

            If you believe that you are righteous and not in need of salvation , then your hell will be hotter because of your pride and arrogance. You would be calling God a liar. ALL HAVE SINNED AND COME SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD
            ( Romans 3:23)KJB.

            “As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:” ( Romans 3:10)KJB.-

            –If you cannot even admit that you are a sinner and in need of The Saviour , then their is little hope of rescuing you from an eternity apart from Christ. Jesus came to save sinners. If you do not think you are one then Christ did not come to save you and you will pay for your sins in Hell forever.

          • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

            You would do well to keep your accusations to yourself. I have already accepted the sacrifice of Christ on my behalf and walk in the Spirit daily.

            For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 8:2

            Those who practice sin (sinners) cannot be true Christians by the very definition of the word.So if you’re a sinner then YOU must be born again.

            Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. John 8:34

            Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:8-10

            Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:29

            Please note that Christ isn’t coming back to receive a harlot church…

            Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. 1 Corinthians 6:15

            For I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 2 Corinthians 11:2

            That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. Ephesians 5:27

            Furthermore, I’m not Roman Catholic and do not believe in their version of hell (eternal torment and punishing) so keep your fear mongering to yourself.

            For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. Malachi 4:1

            Like I stated before; you don’t even know the ABC’s of true Christianity…

          • GibbyD

            The LORD Jesus Christ spoke often about the literal place called Hell. You are calling God a liar if you do not believe it. Your soul will either spend forever in Hell or with The LORD. Jesus used the word fire often, and sometimes outer darkness. Those who have experienced hell, describe the blackest black darkness and also the fire. In hell, the light doesn’t dispel the darkness.

            They also talk about the worms that eat the people’s flesh, and the flames that burn it.
            Inyour4head, The LORD used many references to hell being an eternal state:

            • everlasting fire
            • everlasting punishment
            • eternal condemnation
            • the fire that shall never be quenched
            • their worm does not die
            • unquenchable fire

            “For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.” ( Malachi 4:1)KJB. —

            — There is nothing in this verse that says anything about a soul becoming non-existent. We have several verses that reveal that judgment for the lost is consciously suffered by them forever. An everlasting Hell and Lake of Fire is not a Catholic doctrine , it is Bible truth.

            There is no getting around it inyour4head, hell is real and the soul lasts forever.

            Inyour4head, “if we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” ( ( 1st John 1:8)KJB.

            “If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.” ( Romans 7:16-20)KJB.

            Whereas, The New Man that is created by spiritual birth( 1st Peter 1:23) , does not sin, the dead body (flesh) that this treasure resides in is still corrupt and is part of the cause of conflict as Born Again Believers fight the good fight of faith. The enemy is The World , The Flesh and the devil. Born Again Christians have The Holy Spirit , The Word of God , prayer and The Fellowship and encouragement of other believers to help stay in victory . There will be no sinless perfection until this body of mine is changed and glorified at Christ’s appearing when I shall see Him face to face.

            Inyour4head, The grace of God allows believers to do more and have more victory for God than your cult and it’s members will ever do under the law given to Moses.

            “Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.”( 1st John 3:2)KJB. See also ( I Thess. 4:16,17; 1Cor. 15:51,52; Rev. 4:1)KJB.

            You quote, ” That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. Ephesians 5:27″

            — Yes , this happens instantly when even believer’s bodies are changed and glorified at His appearing. Until then only the new man that is inside born again believers is perfect and sinless.

          • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

            I’m not Roman Catholic and I’m not interested in converting to Catholicism either. So take your misinterpreted copy/paste comments elsewhere.

          • GibbyD

            You say , “God will punish the wicked once and for all, not all eternity.” — The Scriptures disagree with your false teaching.

            You say , “Only those with darkened hearts can imagine such a place of torment…” —– Then you are saying God has a darkened heart. That is perverse of you to believe that. God is Holy .

            “but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Matt 10:28” — Notice that it does not say the soul and or body no longer exists, it says both are destroyed by God. The soul and body can be destroyed and still exist. A ship can be destroyed yet still exist even though that may be lifeless and at the bottom of the ocean. Jesus spoke often about a literal hell and place of everlasting torment.

            I would never want to convert you to the false Roman Catholic religious. They have another Gospel and many wrong beliefs.

            The Bible reveals the Gospel and These Scriptures are all inspired and profitable for everything we need for Godliness

            “The soul that sinneth, it shall die. Ezekiel 18:20” —– It is an eternal conscience everlasting death. It is not non-existence. Non-existence is not possible for the immortal soul . The Bible reveals that you will either be with the LORD in eternity, or in Hell.

          • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

            You cultists never cease to amaze me with your nonsensical posts…

          • GibbyD

            I quote the Scriptures in context , you don’t so i think that it is you that is a cultist.

        • GibbyD

          False Distinction #4:
          The Law of God, God’s law, The law vs. The Law of Moses, Moses Law

          The Law of God contained animal sacrifices and ceremonial laws:

          “Law of God” commands animal sacrifices: Lk 2:23 written in the Law of the Lord, “Every first-born male that opens the womb shall be called holy to the Lord”, and to offer a sacrifice according to what was said in the Law of the Lord, “A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.”

          “Law of the Lord” commands burnt offerings: 2 Chron 31:3: “He also appointed the king’s portion of his goods for the burnt offerings, namely, for the morning and evening burnt offerings, and the burnt offerings for the Sabbaths and for the new moons and for the fixed festivals, as it is written in the law of the Lord.”

          The law told Israel to dwell in tents: “They found written in the law how the Lord had commanded through Moses that the sons of Israel should live in booths during the feast of the seventh month. ” (Nehemiah 8:14)

          1 Chron 16:40 “burnt offering…written in the law of the lord”

          2 Chronicles 35:26 “Now the rest of the acts of Josiah and his deeds of devotion as written in the law of the Lord”

          Nehemiah 8:14 And they found written in the law how the Lord had commanded through Moses that the sons of Israel should live in booths during the feast of the seventh month.

          “and bring to the house of our God the firstborn of our sons and of our cattle, and the firstborn of our herds and our flocks as it is written in the law, for the priests who are ministering in the house of our God. ” (Nehemiah 10:36)

          John 1:17 For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.

          John 7:19 “Did not Moses give you the Law, and yet none of you carries out the Law? Why do you seek to kill Me?”

          Matthew 12:5 “Or have you not read in the Law, that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath, and are innocent? (Cf Num 28:9-10)

          The 10 commandments are NEVER called “the law of the Lord” or “law of God” in distinction from the “law of Moses” within a single passage.The 10 commandments are called the Law of Moses:

          Mk 7:9-10 For Moses said, “Honor your father and your mother”

          When you read the 10 commandments, you read Moses: 2 Corinthians 3:3,15

          Law of Moses is the law given at Horeb (10 commandments): Malachi 4:4 Remember the law of Moses My servant, even the statutes and ordinances which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel.

          Law of Moses included everything God commanded: 1 Kings 2:3
          False Distinction #5:
          Commandments vs. Statutes, Ordinances and Decrees

          Every time a Sabbatarian sees the expression “the commandments” or “My commandments”, they automatically think exclusively of the 10 commandments! Yet here are many passages where these common expressions refer to what Sabbatarians would call “the Ceremonial Law of Moses” and NOT the 10 commandments!

          The phrases “commandments”, “The commandments” “my commandments”, “the Lord commanded”, “what Moses commanded” are uses so many times in the Old Testament in reference to what Adventists call the Ceremonial law to the exclusion of the 10 commandments, it would take 10 pages to list all the verses!

          Lev 27:34 These are the commandments which the Lord commanded Moses for the sons of Israel at Mount Sinai.

          Num 36:13 These are the commandments and the ordinances which the Lord commanded

          Deut 30:10 obey the Lord your God to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of the law

          Jesus defined the commandants to include the Law of Moses: Mt 19:17-19 Jesus said: “keep the commandments.” The man replied “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself”

          Every time a Sabbatarian sees the expression “Statutes, Ordinances and Decrees”, they automatically exclude the 10 commandments and apply it only to what they falsely call, “the ceremonial law” Yet here are many passages where these common expressions refer to the 10 commandments exclusively: (or at least in part include)

          Deut 5:1 The Ten commandments are called “My statures and all My ordinances”

          Ezekiel 20:19-21 The weekly Sabbath is called “My statures and all My ordinances”

          Mal 4:4 Book closes with a call to keep “statutes and ordinances” which obviously include the 10 commandments because it would be unthinkable for such a doxology to leave them out completely!

          Neh 9:13-14 the weekly Sabbath is included without distinction: “right judgments, true laws, good statutes, commandments”

          Lev 19:1-37 The Ten commandments and the ceremonial law are mixed together without distinction and called “My statures and all My ordinances”

          Deut 5:1-6:25: Two whole chapters that deal exclusively with the 10 commandments and the following 5 terms are used interchangeably without distinction: “statutes”, “ordinances”, “commandments”, “judgments”, “testimonies”.

          Lev 23 The Weekly Sabbath is lumped in with all the yearly Sabbaths without distinction and they are all called “The Lord’s appointed times” and “holy convocations”.

          Ezek 20 calls the first and fourth commandment, My statutes and My ordinances:

          Neh 8 uses interchangeably without distinction, the following terms: “the book of the law of Moses”, “the law”, “the book of the law”, “the law of God”, “book of the law of God” and includes

          • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

            And yet again…

          • GibbyD

            Time is running out. Don’t be left behind or die without Christ . Let go of your filthy rags self-righteousness and trust in Jesus’s HOLY PERFECT righteousness

          • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

            Your “left behind” theology left the truth behind…

        • GibbyD

          False Distinction #6:
          Written on Stone vs. Written in a book, book of the law

          This would be true except for the fact that the 10 commandments were copied twice by Moses in the book of the law. (Ex 20 and Deut 5)

          It is more accurate to say that both were written in the book but only the 10 commandments were written in stone.

          Although the original 10 commandment law was written by the finger of God on stone, Moses recorded the 10 commandments twice with his own hand in the book.False Distinction #7:
          Placed in the Ark vs. Placed on side of Ark

          This would be true except for the fact that the 10 commandments were copied twice by Moses in the book of the law.

          It is more accurate to say that both were placed beside the ark, but only the 10 commandments were in the ark.

          The 10 commandments were found two places: both “inside” and “on the side of” the Ark of the Covenant.

          This destroys any distinction based upon location.False Distinction #8:
          Written by God’s finger vs. Written by Moses Finger

          This would be true except for the fact that the 10 commandments were copied twice by Moses in the book of the law.

          It is more accurate to say that both were written by Moses finger in the book but only the 10 commandments were written by God’s finger on stone.False Distinction #9:
          Spoken by God vs. Spoken by Moses

          Ex 20:21-26 clearly shows that the people also heard God’s voice in the giving of “ceremonial law” as well.

          So this distinction is utterly false, since the people heard God’s voice give both the 10 commandments and laws regarding alters and sacrifice. (Ex 20:21-26)

          The 10 commandments were also spoken by Moses twice when he read it to the People.False Distinction #10:
          10 Commandments remain vs. Ceremonial law abolished
          For Detailed outline of #10 click here

          Every time a Sabbatarian sees the expression “the commandments” or “My commandments”, they automatically think exclusively of the 10 commandments! Yet here are many passages where these common expressions refer to what Sabbatarians would call “the Ceremonial Law of Moses” and NOT the 10 commandments!

          The phrases “commandments”, “The commandments” “my commandments”, “the Lord commanded”, “what Moses commanded” are uses so many times in the Old Testament in reference to what Adventists call the Ceremonial law to the exclusion of the 10 commandments, it would take 10 pages to list all the verses!

          Lev 27:34 These are the commandments which the Lord commanded Moses for the sons of Israel at Mount Sinai.

          Num 36:13 These are the commandments and the ordinances which the Lord commanded

          Deut 30:10 obey the Lord your God to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of the law

          Jesus defined the commandants to include the Law of Moses: Mt 19:17-19 Jesus said: “keep the commandments.” The man replied “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself”

          Every time a Sabbatarian sees the expression “Statutes, Ordinances and Decrees”, they automatically exclude the 10 commandments and apply it only to what they falsely call, “the ceremonial law” Yet here are many passages where these common expressions refer to the 10 commandments exclusively: (or at least in part include)

          For Detailed outline of #10 click here

          Deut 5:1 The Ten commandments are called “My statures and all My ordinances”

          Ezekiel 20:19-21 The weekly Sabbath is called “My statures and all My ordinances”

          Mal 4:4 Book closes with a call to keep “statutes and ordinances” which obviously include the 10 commandments because it would be unthinkable for such a doxology to leave them out completely!

          Neh 9:13-14 the weekly Sabbath is included without distinction: “right judgments, true laws, good statutes, commandments”

          Lev 19:1-37 The Ten commandments and the ceremonial law are mixed together without distinction and called “My statures and all My ordinances”

          Deut 5:1-6:25: Two whole chapters that deal exclusively with the 10 commandments and the following 5 terms are used interchangeably without distinction: “statutes”, “ordinances”, “commandments”, “judgments”, “testimonies”.

          Lev 23 The Weekly Sabbath is lumped in with all the yearly Sabbaths without distinction and they are all called “The Lord’s appointed times” and “holy convocations”.

          Ezek 20 calls the first and fourth commandment, “My statutes and My ordinances”

          Neh 8 uses interchangeably without distinction, the following terms: “the book of the law of Moses”, “the law”, “the book of the law”, “the law of God”, “book of the law of God” and includes

          For Detailed outline of #10 click here

          • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

            More copy/paste nonsense to establish lawlessness…

          • GibbyD

            Jesus said , “You MUST be born again ” (John 3:3; !st Peter 1:23)KJB

            Isaiah 64:6; Galatians 5

          • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

            How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Romans 6:2

          • GibbyD

            “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7Because the carnal mind isenmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
            9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10And if Christ be in you, the bodyis dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.” ( Romans 8:2-11)KJB

          • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

            So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Romans 7:25

        • GibbyD

          V. A distinction between the tables and the book cannot be established merely because a few different things said about them!

          A. Two Paul’s because opposite things said about them? Paul said he was a Jew and a Roman: Acts 21:39; 22:35

          B. Two Christ’s because opposite things said about them?

          Christ is a lion and lamb: Rev 5:5-6

          Christ is everlasting Father and born of a woman: Isa 9:6; Lk 2:7

          Christ is prince of life yet died through weakness: Acts 3:15; 2 Cor 13:4

          Christ is a child yet God: Isa 9:6; Heb 1:8

          Christ is came to bring peace and division: Lk 2:9-14; Lk 12:51

          VI. “The Law” of the Old Testament is NOT the “Law of Christ”: 1 Cor 9:21

          1 Cor 9:21 “to those who are under the Law, as under the Law, though not being myself under the Law, that I might win those who are under the Law, to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, that I might win those who are without law”

          Paul is not under the Law of the Jews

          But Paul is not without law

          Paul is under a different law from the Jews

          Paul is under the Law of Christ

          VII. 10 reasons that refute there is any difference between the 10 commandment law and the ceremonial law:

          (How they use circular reasoning and selective reading to establish a false distinction that doesn’t exist!)

          The words or phrases “commandment” “my commandment” “the commandments” always means 10 commandments, unless they are said to be abolished, then they refer to the ceremonial law.

          The words or phrases “law” “law of God” “My law” “law of the Lord” always refers to the ten commandments, unless they are directly applied to some law that is NOT the ten commandments, then they refer to the ceremonial law.

          The phrase “the Law” in Romans is always the 10 commandments, except when the same term is used in the same verse, once to refer to the 10 commandments and the second time the ceremonial law? for the Law [ten commandments] brings about wrath, but where there is no law [ceremonial], there also is no violation. Rom 4:15 (Leo Schreven, Now that’s clear! p73)

          The phrase “the law” always means the 10 commandments, except in those passages like Gal 3:24-25 where v 24 calls the law our tutor [strongs #3897], then v25 says we are no longer under that tutor [Strongs #3897]! In horror Adventists suddenly say the phrase, “the law” cannot refer to the 10 commandments in Gal 3:24-25!

          The phrase “law of Moses” always refers to the ceremonial law, except when the ten commandments are called the law of Moses.

          The phrase “law of commandments” always means the 10 commandments, except when the Greek word for abolished is used beside it, then the law of commandments becomes the ceremonial law.

          If its written by the finger of God himself, it is “the ten commandments”, except the two places that Moses wrote the same commandments out twice in the ceremonial law with his human hands.

          If its written by the finger of Moses it always refers to the ceremonial law and not the ten commandments, except where it says that Moses wrote the ten commandments with his own hand.

          Adventists argue that the Hebrew for eternal “Olam” when it refers to the ten commandments proves they will never be abolished and are eternal, except when the exact same Hebrew word is applied to circumcision and every other Jewish holy day. With these, eternal came to an end, but not with the ten commandment.

          Sabbatarians tell us that the ten commandments were placed in the ark to show how special they were, until it is pointed out that two complete copies of the ten commandments were also placed beside the ark in the ceremonial law.

          The ceremonial law beside the ark was abolished, except when it is pointed out that it contained two copies of the 10 commandments.

          Adventists quote Eph 2:15 as proof that the ceremonial law is abolished, until they learn that the exact same word for abolished is used specifically of the ten commandments twice in Rom 7 and four times in 2 Cor 3.

          Adventists say that the 10 commandments contain moral laws and the book of the covenant contain ceremonial laws. Like hello! There are a pile of moral laws in the book of the covenant. Like how about the two greatest moral laws, love God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself! Oh, I guess since its in the book of the covenant, it must be a ceremonial law that was abolished. Adventists reply, “No! is merely summarizes the 10 commandments.” Well actually doesn’t that just prove the distinction is false? Haven’t you just admitted that there are tons of very important moral laws in what you falsely mislabel the ceremonial law?

          In fact the 10 commandments are not even a complete moral code themselves! If we used nothing but the 10 commandments, pre-marital sex would be OK! Perhaps that’s the problems with today’s youth, they are only taught the ten commandments!

          Even identical expressions like “keep the whole law” are seen as referring to two different parts of the first covenant law! Sabbatarians believe in Gal 5:3, that the expression “keep the whole law” means keep the whole ceremonial law, yet in James 2:10 they believe the identical expression, Keep the whole law refers exclusively to the ten commandments. The truth is “keep the whole law” refers to the entire old covenant, everything included! Or as Sabbatarians would “misstate” it, both the 10 commandments and the ceremonial law. “And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. ” (Galatians 5:3) “For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. ” (James 2:10)

          Sabbatarians call the ceremonial law a “yolk of bondage” in Gal 5:1; Acts 15:10, yet fail to tell you that 2 Cor 3 calls the ten commandments that which “kills” (v. 6) the “ministration of death” and the “ministration of condemnation” (v. 7, 9)

          Conclusion:

          The 10 commandments given special treatment, over what was in the book, not because they were a separate code of law, but because they were the actual Covenant themselves.

          1. Historically the Jews never made the distinction that the Sabbatarians make.

          2. However, the Jew did view the 10 commandments as the Sinai covenant!

          Exodus 34:27-28: “Then the Lord said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.” So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did not eat bread or drink water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.”

          Deuteronomy 4:13: “So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

          Deuteronomy 9:9: “When I went up to the mountain to receive the tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant which the Lord had made with you, then I remained on the mountain forty days and nights; I neither ate bread nor drank water.

          Deuteronomy 5:2-3: “The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, with all those of us alive here today.”

          1 Kings 8:9,21: V9 There was nothing in the ark except the two tablets of stone which Moses put there at Horeb, where the Lord made a covenant with the sons of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt.” … V21 “And there I have set a place for the ark, in which is the covenant of the Lord, which He made with our fathers when He brought them from the land of Egypt.”

          2 Chronicles 6:11: “And there I have set the ark, in which is the covenant of the Lord, which He made with the sons of Israel.”

          Hebrews 9:1,4 “Now even the first covenant had … the tables of the covenant”

          3. It was this covenant that was abolished in Heb 8:13 – 9:1-4

          • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

            Your copy/paste didn’t prove anything except that you don’t know the ABC’s of true Christianity. Have it your way then…

          • GibbyD

            I would rather copy and paste that which is superior than anything detailed I would give when I recognize it’s value and the thorough research done by this particular site that I posted.
            The ABC’s of the Gospel ? I use to teach something like that that was called the ABCs of the Gospel ( SALVATION )but I do not think that is what you meant.
            A. ACKNOWLEDGE SELF AS SINER . (Romans 3:23; Isaiah 53:6; Acts 4:12)
            B.BELIEVE IN CHRIST- ( Acts 16:31; Acts 20:21; John 3:16; Romans 10:17; Luke 13:3; Romans 2:4)KJB
            C. CONFESS CHRIST AS SAVIOUR . –( Romans 10:9,10; 1st John 4:15; Acts 19:18; 1st John 1:9)KJB

            “Repentance toward God and faith toward The LORD Jesus Christ ” ( Acts 20:21)KJB

            If you have not yet , then today is the day, but don’t delay !!!

          • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

            This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. . Matthew 15:8-9

          • GibbyD

            “This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Matthew 15:8-9”-
            —Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, 2Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. 3But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 4For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. 5But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; 6And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. 7Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

            8This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

            9But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. ( Matthew 15:1-9)KJB

    • KBR

      According to this article, they believe that any Christian who worships on Sunday will receive the mark of the beast. But apparently, implied here, no Adventist will because they worship on Saturday. Please explain whether SDA church believes that all other Christians are doomed, and if the SDA church believes that all Christians who worship on Sunday deserve the mark of the beast?

  • acontraryview

    No wonder so many conservatives like him. They have the same level of knowledge.

    • afchief

      I vote Democrat because I see absolutely no correlation between welfare and the rise of illegitimacy.
      I vote Democrat because I see absolutely no correlation between judicial leniency and surging crime rates.
      I vote Democrat because I believe marriage is obsolete, except for homosexuals.
      I vote Democrat because I believe in killing babies
      I vote Democrat because I think AIDS is spread by insufficient funding.
      I vote Democrat because I think “fairness” is far more important than freedom.
      I vote Democrat because I think an “equal outcome” is far more important than equal opportunity.
      And lastly, I vote Democrat because I’m convinced that government programs are the solution to the human condition, NOT freedom….

      Yep, the godless party of evil……..the Demoncrats

      • acontraryview

        I’m very surprised that you vote for Democrats and for such ridiculous reasons.

        • afchief

          I don’t. That was sarcasm.

          • acontraryview

            That it was. And someone else’s at that. Unfortunate that you lack integrity and present the words as your own.

          • WorldGoneCrazy

            And excellent sarcasm at that – thanks for posting it!

  • Dave_L

    Each denomination is like a book and after you read several books, you develop a broader picture than if you confine yourself to only one book.

    • Becky

      Amen. That’s why we should only keep our eyes on the word of God. Anything else is sure to cause confusion.

  • Dinah

    Article author. Are you certain Adventists believe Jesus is the archangel? I thought that was Jehovah Witnesses?

  • Anthony Chavez

    Adventists believe that jesus is the son of god…not michael. Im unliking this page.

  • Nidalap

    Okey-doke! At this point, aren’t we just about ready to cheer on any presidential candidate so long as they stand up for religious rights and we don’t find out that they secretly drink human blood? 🙂

    • Josey

      I think a lot of folks are, sad but is what it’s come down to, I guess makes it ripe for the antichrist to show up anytime.

      • Nidalap

        Signs of the times all around! 🙂

  • GibbyD

    Trump said. “Why do I have to repent, why do I have to ask for forgiveness, if you are not making mistakes? I work hard. I’m an honorable person. I have thousands of people who work for me. I have employed tens of thousands of people over the years.”-

    — That sounds like filthy rags self-righteousness. (Isaiah 64:6)KJB . There seems to be allot of “I”, “I”, “I”s. there coming from Trump. Trump was a prolific fornicator with his dad’s inherited 400 millions dollars before he was married and then became a three time adulterer after his marriages. Yet he thinks there is nothing he has ever needed to repent of. Hmm, do we need someone that blind to the truth to be leading our nation? What is so sad is that so many , mostly those in the cultic prosperity Gospel, are pandering themselves around him, gladly giving their endorsement of a this man who is so contrary to the teachings and example of Christ.

    • KBR

      Sounds to me Trump is saying “Why do you (this tricky-questioning reporter) think I need to repent?”
      Have you looked into the faith of the reporter? Who is this reporter who feels he should be like a priest in a confessional, but asks such a question not in a church, without pastoral authority nor in a helping manner. He asks about repentance on national television, as a gotcha question.
      And here, on a Christian site, you agree with this reporter’s questions?
      Anyone with sense knows that that was a gotcha question, with a reporter that was abusing Trump’s declaration of Christian faith to get him to say something, anything, that could be made into a headline against him.
      Trump did NOT say “I have never repented.” He asked the reporter why the reporter thought Trump should need to repent. (This reporter trying to act as a confessor is more likely to be the non-Christian in this instance. Do you recall the reporter stating that he was a Christian? I don’t.)
      Then Trump went on to say that he was an honorable person.
      Then Trump switched the topic from an improper line of questioning critical of his faith, to his ability to create jobs.
      Trump, while stating his Christianity, does not “pray on the street corners “that (he) may be seen of men, as hypocrites do” (paraphrasing of Matt 6:2, look it up) He says his faith is a private matter, not something to be examined and critiqued and shredded by the media. Sounds as if he believes Matthew 6. Do you?
      Don’t be misled by the news media who are looking for and creating negative headlines, how many in the MSM proclaim their Christianity? How many proclaim their agnosticism, and their atheism?
      A man in the public eye proclaims his Christianity, and you choose to judge him?
      Also, I suggest a review of Matthew 7:1-5.

      • GibbyD

        You say , ” Trump, while stating his Christianity, does not “pray on the street corners “that (he) may be seen of men, as hypocrites do” (paraphrasing of Matt 6:2, look it up)”

        —- KBR, first let me correct you by pointing out that Matt. 6:2 is talking about “praying”, it is not speaking about PREACHING . Explain to me how someone is going to obey The LORD Jesus’s command to ” PREACH THE GOSPEL” inside a closet. It always bothers me when people twist and dishonestly handle the Scriptures in order to teach false doctrine and ideas.

        The reason Trump said what he said is because he is a self-righteous ego-maniac who does not see that fornication and adultery is sin. You need not be a “clergyman” of any type to be able to ask the question of someone else’s faith. The Bible says that we must be ready to give an answer to everyone that asks. —

        “But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:.” (1st Peter 3:15)KJB.

        Also Romans 1:16 reveals that true Christians are not ashamed or hesitant about proclaiming their genuine faith in Jesus. — “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”

        If Trump or anyone is a real Christian , they would not be shy or private about proclaiming The Gospel as The LORD Jesus commands HIs true followers to do. Pray in private but PREACH, PROCLAIM and SHARE The Gospel in PUBLIC. If you don’t , more than likely you’re a fake.
        The reason Trump does not talk about his faith is because he has no real faith and is not a real Christian. If he was a real Christian he would be open and verbal about it and would know at least some Bible. He could not even quote John 3:16 or Ephesians 2:8,9. Even baby Christians (new believers) know those verses. Trump is simply pandering to a segment of the American people that he thinks he can manipulate. Real Christians will not fall for his fakery for long.

        As for you citing Matthew 7:1-5, let me educate you a little about the word “judge” in that passage. The koine word in Greek is the word that mean “punish” ( KRINO) . Look it up. It is not saying someone cannot form an opinion by examining someone actions and words. If you will read the rest of that chapter you would know that. We cannot punish someone incorrectly but we can have an opinion and know them by their fruit.

        ” Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” ( Matthew 7:15-20)KJB.

        “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” ( Matthew 7:21)KJB.

        The reason I do not believe Trump is because of his history , his sins that he has NEVER repented of. The Bible never said we are to confess our sin to anybody but directly to God. Confessing “faults” are not the same as confessing sins. Faults are areas of weakness where there is the potential for sin. I liken this to an earthquake fault line deep in the Earth. The faultline is not the earthquake but is the area of weakness where there is the potential for an earthquake. Also Christians are to confess their faults one to another. (James 5:16)KJB. You do not need a salary paid clergymen to confess to. Only The LORD Jesus Christ can forgive sin. ( I John 1:9)KJB “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

        Trump is a fake and does not believe his own words . He is a Pandering Chameleon who will do or say anything for power since he already has wealth and a slew of “women conquests”. He was not faithful to his wives and he would not be faithful to the conservative causes nor to The United States .

        • KBR

          You say let me correct you, yet you are not able to do so while you clearly judge me: ” people twist and dishonestly handle the Scriptures in order to teach false doctrine and ideas.” “more than likely you’re a fake.”
          Again, “Judge not” said Jesus.
          “The reason Trump does not talk about his faith is because he has no real faith and is not a real Christian,” you said.
          Again, “Judge not” said Jesus.
          “The reason Trump said what he said is because he is a self-righteous ego-maniac who does not see that fornication and adultery is sin.” Did God tell you whether or not Donald Trump had repented to him, in prayer?
          “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone” said Jesus.
          Again, “Judge not” said Jesus.
          Trump is a fake and does not believe his own words. ”
          Again, “Judge not” said Jesus.
          You seem to feel you can see what words pass from Trump to God as if you were a fly on the wall. You say he has never repented. And you know this how?
          Again, “Judge not” said Jesus.
          I am well familiar with the warning about false prophets.
          Your own fruits are not looking so good right now, however. You presume to “correct me” yet I am asking questions and quoting only Jesus? You quibble with word meanings and easily pass judgement on other persons of faith, casting stones without hesitation, apparently believing yourself to be above all reproach and without sin?
          “Every word that falleth out of your mouth” or in this case, onto a keyboard, will be judged. Not by me, though.
          However, prophets are persons that prophesy, that means tell the future.
          We aren’t choosing a person for chief fortuneteller here.

          Jesus told his apostles to preach the gospel. He didn’t tell a single one to try to gain an earthly kingdom by doing so.
          Rather they were/are to gain souls for God’s kingdom.

          Carson is not running for preacher here, he is running for president. I hope he is a true Christian. I raise questions about it. I have not passed judgement but have raised honest questions.

          You are coming at me in a decidedly evil and judge mental manner, much like the Pharisees once did to Jesus.

          Again, “Judge not” said Jesus. (The punishment of judgement that you wish to mete out to fellow Christians is not lessened by definition of “koine.”)
          By whatever measure you dole judgment out to others, by that measure will you be judged. (Paraphrased, but a valid paraphrase.)
          “Shouldn’t thou not have compassion on thy fellow servant even as I had pity on thee?And his lord was wroth and delivered him to the tormentors, til he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my Heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not everyone his brother their trespasses.” Matt 18: 33-35
          I forgive you.

          • April J

            Trump exhibits no characteristics of someone who is trying to be Christlike. He is arrogant and hateful. Anyone that runs around calling people “losers” isn’t trying to emulate Jesus, in my opinion. If you’re looking for a Christian candidate, I’m afraid you’re going to look elsewhere. Trump worships money, power and himself more than he’ll ever worship the Lord.

          • KBR

            Thanks for your honest opinion. And for not stating judgements about me.
            BTW, are you of the same denomination as Carson?
            I haven’t yet got an answer whether persons of that denomination believe that Christians who worship on Sunday deserve and will receive the mark of the beast?
            I really want to know if the reporter was correct in what he reported in the article about this matter.

          • GibbyD

            Again , you wrongly mis-interpret the word “Judge” where it says in Matt. 7, “Judge not” . Jesus was saying do not punish (KRINO) without sufficient information of wrong doing. That is the definition of the word “judge” in the passage you keep referring to. READ THE REST OF MATTHEW 7 and you will see why it is a foolish thing to think that man cannot ” know them by their fruit”.

            You say , “Did God tell you whether or not Donald Trump had repented to him, in prayer?” —

            –No KBR , Donald Trump told us all when it came out of his own mouth !!! He told us NO , that he did not repent. Stop worshiping this unrepentant money and power hungry man named Donald Trump and fix your eyes on Jesus. Only Jesus can save your soul from hell and only The LORD Jesus can turn this nation around. God does not use sinners like Trump unless it is in judgement of a nation, just as He allowed Obama to be President because of our nation’s sins.

            The way to become a Christian and be saved from the wrath to come is by , ” ..repentance toward God and faith toward The LORD Jesus Christ ” ( Acts 20:21; 1st John 5:13)KJB.

            Don’t delay because you may not have tomorrow.

            I don’t know if Carson is born again. He is not the candidate I am supporting . I support and will vote for Mike Huckabee . The Fair Tax is the best plan to rescue our economy . Nothing else seems to be enough at this point . The Fair Tax also eliminates the corrupt IRS !
            Jesus said , ” Ye MUST be born again” ( John 3:3; 1st Peter 1:23; 2 Corinthians 5;17)KJB .

            ( I Corinthians 1:21; Romans 1:16)KJB

  • Josey

    One would know if they had repented or not, trump isn’t a Christian, he doesn’t profess to be one, he says he is presbyterian but being of a denomination doesn’t make one a Christian, following and obeying Christ, loving Him and trusting solely in Him for salvation makes one a Christian.

    • KBR

      Christians who follow and obey Christ believe that boasting about one’s religiosity is wrong.
      “And when thou prayest thou shall not be as the hypocrites are; for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, THAT THEY MAY BE SEEN OF MEN.” Matt. 6:5
      “But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut the door, pray to thy Father in secret; and thy Father shall reward thee openly.” Matt. 6:6

      These are red letter words in a red letter Bible: not the words of anyone lesser, but the words of Jesus.
      Both men profess Christianity. One of them wishes to “be seen of men” praying, and giving alms. One quietly gives alms, helps the needy, and says his religion is a private matter.
      Carson or Trump?
      Trump 2016!

      • Josey

        You have to take God’s word in it’s entire context for Jesus also said in Luke 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father’s, and of the holy angels. The pope is one who likes to be seen of man, a good example of what Jesus was referring to but Jesus didn’t mean we are never to pray in public or acknowledge our love for Him in public. The apostles had no problem praying in public or preaching the word of God or giving alms, God knows the heart and He looks at the heart, anyone who gives or professes anything God knows their motive for why they do it and if it is for selfish reasons, it is a work that in the end shall be burned up.

      • Angel Jabbins

        No, you are misinterpreting what Jesus was teaching…taking His words out of context. What He was talking about had to do with how Christians should behave when they pray and do good works….privately without calling attention to themselves…doing it unto the Lord, for His glory not for their own recognition or praise. Trump certainly toots his own horn quite a bit, so he has already failed this test, if you want to make it one.

        What is a true Christian? He is one who will immediately admit (when asked) that he is a sinner, saved only by the grace of the Jesus Christ and give Him all the glory. Trump doesn’t think he IS a sinner. He said as much…said he doesn’t make ‘mistakes’ and said he didn’t think he has ever repented. (Believe me, he would know if he had!) Why would one repent if he feels he is ok as is and doesn’t have anything to repent for? Trump a lost man. Being a Presbyterian means absolutely nothing. There are people in many denominations who are not saved. Salvation is a work of God in a person’s heart which creates sorrow for sin and desire for the new life only Christ can give…a life that is lived to give glory to God in all he does and says. Trump is no Christian.

        • Robert Stutz

          Angel, Jesus requires us to live humbly before God, to love our fellow man, above all else to love God. All of the commandments hang on just 2. To love God and to love one another.

      • Angel Jabbins

        All of scripture is God-breathed and profitable…and Jesus said that not one jot or tittle of it will pass away until all is fulfilled….and that included the NT writers. He reaffirmed that the Word is inspired in its entirety several times. If you trust in what Jesus said, then you can trust ALL of scripture, not only the red letters.

        • KevinWarren

          Agreed Angel. Every word in the Bible is the Word of God. Every single one. Not just the Red Letters.

      • Becky

        Those verses are referring to a boastful individual, but claiming Christ…claiming Christianity isn’t being boastful.

  • KBR

    “those who continue in transgression [with Sunday worship] will receive ‘the mark of the beast.’”
    Does this statement mean that SDA’s believe all other Christian denominations are false Christians?
    Does Carson believe that? Somebody ask him!
    If you worship on Sunday do you believe you deserve to receive the mark of the beast?
    Who would make Sunday Christians receive such a mark, if not a powerful leader that believed Sunday Christians deserved it?

    • WorldGoneCrazy

      “Does this statement mean that SDA’s believe all other Christian denominations are false Christians?”

      Some SDA’s do believe that. Some are into works-righteousness and are worldly accomplishment oriented, which would be outside of orthodoxy and orthopraxy in my view. Many SDA’s are remarkably callous about abortion. The SDA university in our town used to drop pregnant students off at the abortion mill in their university van! Clearly, such is not the fruit of those indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

      What I say is NOT true for ALL SDA’s. There is a good deal of divergence across SDA. I am NOT making a blanket accusation.

      • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

        The corporate SDA church is in a fallen condition- they misrepresent true Adventism and put Christ to open shame. Flee for your life…

      • Robert Stutz

        Jesus was the only one to fulfill the whole law. Nobody else could do it because of our sin nature. The law was given to us to show us how short we have come in keeping the law. So there is no salvation in keeping the law. Only trusting in Jesus Christ can we receive eternal life. By receiving the gift of eternal life, you can’t work for it it doesn’t happen that way. Receive the gift into your heart and life, turn to God and receive his life

        • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

          We’re not saved by keeping the law but we can be lost by not keeping it…

          • GibbyD

            Nope, you are lost because you are not born again. You are not born again because you have heard and rejected The Gospel .

          • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

            So says the Roman Catholic who believes in a false gospel…

          • GibbyD

            I know Roman Catholics that wear shoes. Does that mean that Christians should not wear shoes?

          • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

            Nice strawman argument you have there Mr Scarecrow…

            By all means, threaten me with your fire and brimstone preaching again…

          • GibbyD

            You must either believe God and His Word of not. You have chosen not to.
            (Mt. 10:28; Luke 17:23-31; Matthew 25:46; Rev. 14:11; Mark 9:43; Luke 16:24; Matthew 25:46; 8:12; 13:41,42; Rev. 20:15; Rev. 14:11; Matthew 8:12; Psalm 9:17; Rev. 20:10; 21:8)KJB

          • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

            Its your private interpretations of scripture that I don’t believe in…

          • GibbyD

            Do you understand what is meant by a “private interpretation”? One obscure Scripture out of context applied wrongly is a private interpretation.

            I have cited the general consul and acknowledged understanding from the Bible of an existing and literal Hell that , according to several portions of Scripture , will torment lost souls forever.

          • Robert Stutz

            In your head, that doesn’t make any sense my friend? We’re not saved by keeping it but we can be lost by not keeping it ? Your reasoning is causing you to run in circles as a dog chases his tail! Jesus said you must be born again to enter his kingdom. Otherwise you ain’t entering. You can keep the golden rule ( do unto others as you would have them do unto you) keep all the commandments, trust that your own good works will get you into heaven but unfortunately you would be lost in an eternity without God in your life. You could do that or you could put your faith in the lord Jesus Christ, trust in him to get you into heaven. To be frank with you, I’m not good enough to get into heaven. But Jesus died in my place, took my sins upon himself on the cross, paid the price for me so that I can have eternal life. Thank you Jesus for what you did for me and all who believe in you, your death and resurrection?

          • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

            Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? 1 Crinthians 6:9

            Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. Ecc 12:13

    • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

      He deceived them that had received the mark of the beast…

  • FoJC_Forever

    Christians are not required to worship on Saturday, or Sunday, or any other specified day of the week. Those who follow Jesus (the) Christ worship God every day. Those who focus on specific days of the week are also led astray into other false doctrines fashioned after “the traditions of men”. People have been fooled by false religions pretending to represent God, His Will, and the Word of God, who is Jesus (the) Christ, for centuries. These false religions will not diminish, but expand as the End gets closer and closer.

    Follow Jesus, find Truth.

    • http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EvidencefortheBible/ Galut1

      Jesus never rescinded the Torah or the ten commandments …he practiced it till the day he went to the cross…observance of the seventh day is among those commandments ….He taught that the practice of those commandments should come naturally thru the law of love from the heart that he emphasized …commemorating Sunday as the day Jesus arose should not be a problem either

      • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

        Haven’t you heard? Nine of the ten commandments are still valid today- its just that pesky one we’re told to remember that everyone wants to forget…

        • http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EvidencefortheBible/ Galut1

          They are All valid 🙂

        • GibbyD

          And you keep none of them.

          • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

            The accuser of the brethren never sleeps…

          • GibbyD

            The LORD’s demand for obedience goes much further than you outward show can produce. He sees your heart ( 1 Samuel 16:7)KJB.

            Notice that 1st John 2:4 makes no mention of the 613 Old Testament laws and in respect to that , no distinction between so called ceremonial vs. Moral laws. What commandments was He referring to then?

            “For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.” ( James 2:10)KJB.

            –Read the chapter and get the flavor and then realize that believers have two commandments

            “Ye have been called unto liberty; onlyuse not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.” ( Genesis 5:13)KJB.

            ” And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.” ( Luke 10:27)KJB

            “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.” ( Luke 10:27)KJB.

            “Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” ( Matthew 22:36-40)KJB.

          • Robert Stutz

            Gibby, you my brother are very insightful in your study of the scriptures

          • GibbyD

            Thank you brother, but I always keep in mind (I Cor. 8:2). “And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.” Also (Psalm 25:9), “The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way.”

          • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

            You Roman Catholic Protestants are very persistent…

          • GibbyD

            I am not Protestant because I NEVER was or will ever be Roman Catholic. selah .

          • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

            Your doctrines are a mixture of Catholicism and Protestantism…

          • GibbyD

            Nope, I have given only BIBLE.

            The Seventh Day Adventists have every right to worship on the Sabbath, and they should if they are convinced that is the right thing to do. However, if any member of any church were to require a person to worship on the Sabbath as a sign of “true” Christianity or “true” redemption, then that is wrong. According to Rom. 14:1-12, we are free.

            Additionally, Sunday is the day that the Lord Jesus rose from the dead. The Jewish people who had rejected Jesus continued to worship on Saturday, the Sabbath. But it was the Christians who celebrated Jesus’ resurrection, and this was most probably the driving force to gather on the first day of the week.

          • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

            And you have every right to reject knowledge…

            “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.” Hosea 4:6

            In order to keep a man-made tradition…

            “And he (Jesus) said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.” Mark 7:6-9

            P.S.

            Your response is what every other cultist says too…

          • GibbyD

            “O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?4Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 5He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?”——————————————–For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed isevery one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.11But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.” ( Galatians 3:10-14)KJB. ——————————————– “Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 20Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. 21Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

            23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.” ( Galatians 3:19-25)KJB.

          • Robert Stutz

            Amen Gibby, everything you pointed out is scriptually based. Thanx for standing for the truth that will set a man free. The scriptures and nothing but the scriptures . It seems to me that 4head can quote scripture quite well but misses the Spirit of the law

          • Becky

            “According to Rom. 14:1-12, we are free.”

            Christ said, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.” Matthew 5:17,18.

            Clearly God’s law remains in full effect…heaven and earth hasn’t passed away and not all has been fulfilled, as Christ specifically stated. So, who then supposedly gave Paul the authority to supposedly abolish God’s laws to make us “free” from God’s laws?

          • GibbyD

            And Jesus did indeed FULFILL The law and The prophets. This is why I am trusting in His obedience and righteousness and not mine own. You cannot keep them “The Law”,and obey them and think somehow by doing so that you can earn your salvation. Ephesians 2:8,9; Romans 3:23; Romans 6:23

            — “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.” ( Romans 10:4)KJB

            “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.” ( Romans 4:5)KJB

            “Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” ( John 6:28,29)KJB.

            “David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:” ( Romans 4:5)KJB

            “Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:” ( Romans 3:22)KJB.

            “And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.” ( Colossians 1:18KJB

          • Becky

            Again, not all has been fulfilled. Christ said it himself, “For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.”

            I understand what you’re saying, however it doesn’t mean that God’s law is no longer in effect. Paul, a huge advocate for God’s law, said in Romans 4:15, “for where there is no law there is no transgression.” Is there still sin? Yes, of course, we’re all still sinners, therefore the law still exists.

            In Mark 10, when the rich, young ruler approached Christ with the question about inheriting eternal life, Christ basically told them that they must keep the law in order to inherit salvation. Has that ever changed? No! Revelation 14:12 says, “Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.” We still must keep God’s law.

          • GibbyD

            The law brought us to Christ. Those in Christ have now no need of a ” school master”. Our salvation is based on trusting Christ’s righteousness and not our own. The LORD Imputes to our account that for which we do not deserve while He took upon Himself the sin and wrath that we do deserve. Glory be to God for His unspeakable gift , HIS amazing love and grace.

            When a Christian sins now , it is no longer they that sin but sin that worketh in them , that is in their flesh. The New Man that is perfect ,after the likeness of Jesus, resides inside us as it is being formed. It does not sin and that new man being formed inside us is separated from our flesh by the circumcision of The Holy Spirit. These corrupt bodies will die unless The LORD appears first and changes these vile things and makes them instantly incorruptible. This mortal must put on immortality. This is part of the Blessed Hope when we see Jesus face to face. Until then we have this treasure in earthen vessels.

            In Mark 10 it was still the Old Testament. The LORD Jesus was still using the law to show them that they could not keep it, even if they tried by their own efforts and strength. Notice that that rich young ruler said that he kept those particular ones that Jesus mentioned but that when The LORD Jesus makes mention of the rich younger ruler giving up his riches and following , that the ruler went away sad because he had great riches. The Bible says that covetousness is idolatry ( Col.3:5). In essence the rich young ruler was breaking the 1st commandment because he put his riches above what God asked him to do.

            You say, ” Christ basically told them that they must keep the law in order to inherit salvation” —

            –That is NOT what Jesus said. Nowhere in Scripture are we told that keeping the commandments that anyone can gain salvation ( everlasting life). The rest of that portion of Mark 10 Jesus was speaking about entering the Kingdom of God. That is not the same as entering into Heaven. You can enter into the Kingdom of God the moment after you become born again in this Church Age . Christ had not yet been crucified and the Holy Spirit had not yet been poured out Acts 2. It is NOW that we can enter into the Kingdom of God and eventually Heaven . Notice what Jesus says about those that have given all to follow Him. —“But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.” (vs. 30). Jesus says , ” IN THIS LIFE” . So Christ was not saying if you keep the commandment you can earn Heaven. This portion was before the New Covenant anyway. Today there is only One Way to make it to Heaven and it is not by keeping the commandments. If you try it that way you will fail because you outwardly may think you are doing it but God still sees your heart and as Jesus revealed , even if you have thought the evil , you have done it in God’s eyes. ( I Sam. 16:7; Matthew 5:27)KJB.

            “Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.” ( Mt.5:27)KJB.

            Revelation 14:12 is speaking about Tribulation saints, primarily Jewish believers that got saved during that time of “Jacob’s trouble” ( Jeremiah 30:7)KJB which is a future event and events. Speaking of the book of Revelation , it can be noted that “The Church” is not mentioned anywhere from Revelation 4:1 until Revelation 19. The reason for that is because The Church , The Bride of Christ , will be taken out , caught up to be with The LORD Jesus before that time of Jacob’t Trouble known also as The Great Tribulation.

            If you want to get saved and have everlasting life, Jesus said , “you MUST be born again”. ( John 3:3; 1st Peter 1:23)KJB. “..repentance toward God and faith toward The LORD Jesus Christ ” ( Acts 20:21)KJB. ( Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 1:6; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Romans 3:23; 6:23)KJB

          • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

            One last thing before I shake the dust off my feet…

            And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. 1 John 2:3-4,7

            And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it. 2 John 1:6

            The two greatest “new” commandments are two “old” testament principles…

            And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. Deut 6:5

            Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself… Leviticus 19:18

            Now lets try this again in context…

            Thou shalt love the Lord thy God (first 4 commandments) with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. Thou shalt love thy neighbor (last 6 commandments) as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law (all 10 commandments) and the prophets. Matt 22:37-40 (emphasis mine)

            Can a man truly love God while he violates the first four commandments? Or can he truly love his neighbor while he violates the last six? Think about it.

            This isn’t brain surgery or rocket science you know…

          • GibbyD

            There was and is A MAN that kept all of them completely and perfectly. It is based upon His righteousness, Holiness and sacrifice that a true saved born again Christian is trusting and not their own filthy rags efforts . Your salvation is based on you as your boast about what you do in keeping or thinking your are keeping in reference to laws that God gave the Jews. Your legalistic works salvation will not save you from the wrath of God and judgement of an everlasting hell.

            There were not just 10 commandments , there were 613. And remember God sees your heart. You cannot fool Him into thinking you are even keeping the 10 perfectly. The 10 are listed with the other laws so making no distinction between “kinds” of laws and commandments.

            The reason you are lost is because you have rejected God’s salvation and refuse to not enter into rest. You refuse to trust in Christ and what He accomplished and cling to your own pride and self-righteousness. You miss the whole foreshadowing of what the 4th commandment stood for. There is a reason why that commandment is not repeated in the New Testament. I pray you will cease from your own filthy rags righteousness and trust in Christ .
            Those that have are now entered into rest and have peace. Every day is a day of rest for The Believer. The service from the heart of a true believer is far superior than what the law could ever produce.

          • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

            I’ll let God be the judge of me, not some apostate Christian from the largest cult on the planet. I know whom I have served. (2 Tim 1:12, Jude 1:24)

            Here’s the 4th commandment that doesn’t exist in the new testament…

            “Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: AND WORSHIP HIM that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters”. Revelation 14:7

            “For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in
            them is, and rested THE SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.” Exodus 20:11

            “And on THE SEVENTH DAY God ended his work which he had made; and he rested (Sabbath) on THE SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made. And God blessed THE SEVENTH DAY, and sanctified it.” Genesis 2:2-3

            “For he spake in a certain place of THE SEVENTH DAY on this wise, And God did rest THE SEVENTH DAY from all his works. There remaineth therefore a rest (keeping sabbath) to the people of God.” Hebrews 4:4,9

          • GibbyD

            That rest spoken of in Hebrews is not ” keeping the sabbath” , you added that to Scripture. There remaineth a rest for those that know God and have become born again through faith and trust in Him alone. This is something that you do not know anything about because you are still lost , trapped in a works salvation and fear if you do no do all the rules and conditions of your cult that you may die what you call , ” the eternal death”. You have no peace so you strive harder and harder doing all you can so as to try and make sure you make it . The more you strive though the further you are from entering into rest , the true rest that this portion of Scripture is referring to. This peace and liberty that true born again Christians have is not for an occasion of the flesh but rather so that we can better serve Christ and in love one another.

            Yes , Roman Catholicism and many other main line denominations have doctrinal error and have fallen away from the truth. That does not mean though that God has not preserved and kept those that are gathered unto Him and in His name.

            Nowhere in the New Testament are we told to observe the 4th commandment as The Jews were required to ,no more than we would be required to keep any of the Old Testament 613 commandments. Keeping the commandments does not save anyone. Ye must be born again.

            “O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?4Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 5He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?” ( Galatians 3:1-4)KJB.

          • Robert Stutz

            4head his commandments are 2. Number 1, love the Lord thy God with all of your heart, soul, mind and strength. And 2, love your neighbor as yourself. If you try to keep all of the commandments and transgress in one you’ve broken them all. So instead of being burdened with all, Jesus broke it down to just 2 great commands. In all of your ways acknowledge him and he will direct your path. My yoke is easy and my burden is light Jesus said. He who knew no sin became sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God. That’s what I believe. When Jesus got baptized, the Holy Spirit was like a dove above him , and the Father spoke this is my beloved son in whom I’m well pleased. Matthew 4. When God created man he said, let us make man in our image , After our likeness. Genesis 1: 26. There’s too many scriptures about the trinity that to my understanding is biblically based. Has nothing to do with catholic

          • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

            The ten commandments are summed up in two commandments- love God (first four) and love your neighbor (last six). Its really not all that hard to be a law abiding citizen of the heavenly kingdom- its really no burden at all for those who truly love God and their fellow man. (1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6) In fact, true Christians don’t view the ten commandments as a list of do’s and don’t s- the rebellious and apostate do. (Isa 30:9-10)

            Furthermore, there is no ‘trinity’ in the Bible- its all inyour4head. So be it.

      • FoJC_Forever

        The Old Covenant is passed. There is only a New Covenant through Jesus (the) Christ. Those who seek to obey the Law of Moses are judged by said Law and found guilty without the saving power of Jesus (the) Christ through Faith. The works of the Law are not now works of Faith. During the time when the Law of Moses was in effect, then obeying the Law through Faith (believing God’s Word, following His Voice) was possible. That Covenant has been fulfilled and is no longer applicable. The New Covenant doesn’t change the morality of God, nor does it change what is Righteous and what is not, but establishes a new order in which Christians are not to follow the precepts written in the Law, but be led by the Spirit of God. Only those baptized by Jesus (the) Christ can be empowered and led by the Holy Spirit. Those without the Holy Spirit merely follow a textual religion based upon their own traditions and personal understanding of the words written in the Bible.

        Follow Jesus, find Truth.

        • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

          The belief that the Sinaitic covenant is a law covenant is deeply rooted in the idea that the old testament church was not saved by grace through faith, but by obedience to the law. However, the scriptures declare that the covenant of grace existed long before the world began (2 Timothy 1:9) and was given to man in Eden. (Genesis 3:15) It was shared with Noah (Genesis 6:8; 9:8-9) and renewed to Abraham. (Genesis 17:7; 26:5) In reality there is only one covenant, because God’s covenant commitment to save penitent sinners has never changed. This is why the Bible speaks of the “blood of the eternal covenant”. (Hebrews 9:12) Even though the covenant was based on God’s revealed commandments which the people were expected to observe (Exodus 24:7; Deuteronomy 27 :1), its ultimate function was to reveal God’s saving grace in and through His people. (Exodus 19:6; Deuteronomy 14:1-2; 26:19)

          The old covenant was an agreement between God and His people (Exodus 19:5-8) but fault was found with the children of Israel because they continually broke that covenant. They even went as far as asking Moses to be their mediator instead of Christ. (Exodus 20:18-19) The word mediator (Strong’s G3316) translates into “one who intervenes between two, either in order to make or restore peace and friendship, or form a compact, or forratifying a covenant.” Thus, the new and better covenant is one between God the Father and His son Jesus Christ. (Hebrews 9:15) He kept the covenant with the very same fallen nature that we have (Hebrews 2:14-18) so that through His righteousness we can keep the Law even as He did. (Romans 8:3-4; Philippians 4:13)

          • Robert Stutz

            Sorry 4head but Jesus was sinless. His nature wasn’t fallen. Why do you think he was born of a virgin, conceived by the Holy Spirit. His birth was one and only in all of time. Never has there been a virgin birth ever till Jesus came 2000 years ago. He was the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. All of the Godhead dwelt in Jesus Christ. So him being perfect in all respects without sin or a sin nature. Not once did Jesus Christ ever commit sin or ever have a sin nature but yet was fully man and fully God. Referred to as God in the flesh, God incarnate. You see me you have seen the Father. Abraham believed God and it was accounted for righteousness in fact Abraham was a friend of God. That is an awesome thing to be called a friend of God

          • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

            I’m not Roman Catholic so I don’t believe in the doctrines of Original Sin or the Immaculate Conception. Please refer to my post above.

            For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Hebrews 4:15

          • Robert Stutz

            Good for you! I’m not catholic either! Jesus was sinless period. That’s your prerogative to believe what ever you want. Scripture is pretty clear on mans sin nature. Man is vile and wretched and by Gods grace we must be redeemed . Redemption through the blood of Jesus

          • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

            Your doctrines say you’re a Catholic, not me. You obviously don’t have a clue as to the true origins of the doctrines you are presenting here. Study it out.

          • Robert Stutz

            How do you figure 4head . My belief is that Jesus Christ is saviour of the world, the Christ of God, God the son , second person of the trinity. He shed his blood on the cross for the sins of the world, arose from the dead on the 3rd day according to the scriptures. Returning in power and glory in the near future to establish his kingdom on earth. The word of God made flesh who dwelt among us, the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. All scripture base. I don’t believe Mary was virgin after Jesus was born she had other children according to scripture. As to Catholic, I don’t think so. It’s pagan and cultish in some respects. I don’t know what you believe, hopefully not your own opinion in these matters, but only scripture can set us straight, scripture is the bedrock and foundation of a solid belief system to live by.

          • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

            I agree with most of what you posted here except for the part about Roman doctrine of the Trinity. That’s another one for you to study out.

            The 4th century or Council of Nicea is a good place to start looking…

          • Robert Stutz

            Jesus was born of a virgin. Scripture says so. Matthew 1:20 states that Mary was conceived by the Holy Spirit, Matthew 1:23 also states that Jesus was born of a virgin. His birth was the only in all of history to be virgin born. Immaculate conception is a false hood. Mary had sons and daughters after Jesus. So there was only one virgin birth. Mark3:30-35

          • FoJC_Forever

            There is no such thing as a “covenant of grace”. That’s a crafted doctrine of those who embrace their dead, powerless traditions and use Scriptural words to define their powerless, natural doctrines.

            Jesus (the) Christ did not have a fallen (sinful) nature. No matter how many Scripture references you post, your understanding of the Word of God will not increase. You are stuck in your dead religion. This one thing, which is blasphemy, nullifies any idea that you know Jesus (the) Christ.

            You are not to be trusted.

          • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

            Ye know not what spirit ye are of…

            For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh (sarx), God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh (sarx), and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh (sarx). That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh (sarx), but after the Spirit. Romans 8:3-4

            And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh (sarx) is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist… 1 John 4:3

            Strong’s G4561 – sarx – flesh

            1)the sensuous nature of man, “the animal nature”

            2)the animal nature with cravings which incite to sin

            3)the flesh, denotes mere human nature, the earthly nature of man apart
            from divine influence, and therefore prone to sin and opposed to God

            So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh (sarx) the law of sin. Romans 7:25

          • FoJC_Forever

            Crafty spin, but 2 John 1:7 means that some deny the Savior, Jesus (the) Christ, has actually been manifested in the earth as a person, a man.

            Jesus (the) Christ is the Word of God made into human form. He was in the likeness of sinful flesh (being human), not actually sinful. Jesus was not born with a Sin Nature. The Sin Nature isn’t an “animal” nature, it’s the human nature tarnished or corrupted by Sin. The Seed of Sin was separated by God after the Fall. Jesus was created in the womb of Mary, not through procreation requiring both sperm and egg.

            Jesus never sinned, nor did He have a Sin Nature.

            Follow Jesus, find Truth.

          • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

            I’m not the one who penned the Bible or defined the Greek language…

        • Becky

          Murder is still a sin. Adultery is still a sin. In fact, if you break any of the commandments, including not keeping the seventh day Sabbath holy, you’d be sinning against God.

          Remember what God has said about the saved…

          “Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.” Revelation 14:12

          • FoJC_Forever

            Your Scripture quote has already condemned you to Eternal Damnation. You don’t get to pick and choose which parts of the Law you obey and don’t obey. The Law is far more than ten commandments. So, if you’re going to enforce the 7th day, of which you have no idea when it actually falls, then you have to fulfill all of the Law. You can’t, and by your own interpretation of Revelation 14:12, you have condemned yourself.

            The apostle Paul forsook the Law for the excellency of the knowledge of Jesus (the) Christ. The “commandments” mentioned in Revelation 14:12 is referring to obeying the voice of God. Even the Law states plainly that the children of Israel were to follow His voice. Now, only those who know Jesus can hear His voice, everyone else just reads words in a book and interprets them the way they see fit.

            That being said, I’m not finding commenting on this website worth the harassment of the some of the locals. This happened to me once, while people who knew me hid behind a username and harassed me. I suspect it is happening here, again. The majority of the people I run into feel they have the right to remain hidden, after finding out my identity, but hiding their own, and believe we can actually have a dialogue about Jesus and the Bible. Sneaky snakes who can’t be trusted.

            Save your prayers. I don’t need your faithless, demon invoking words.

          • Becky

            Typical reply of one who rejects the fourth commandment.

            The Sabbath is on the 7th day, aka Saturday. In many different languages saturday, the 7th day, is referred to as the Sabbath…sabado (spanish), shabbat (hebrew), sabato (italian). No coincidence there.

            Btw, the “commandments” mentioned in Revelation 14:12 is referring to the actual commandments, God’s laws, spoken by him.

            You’re so confused.

          • FoJC_Forever

            You have already broken the Law and the 10 Commandments. You are guilty.

            The only way you can be saved from your Sin is by the mercy and power of God through the Faith that is in and of Jesus (the) Christ.

          • Becky

            We’re all guilty…we’re all sinners (Romans 3:23).

            It’s clear, salvation isn’t possible without the grace of God. And, God also made it clear that the saved will keep his laws and have the faith of Jesus. It’s written, repeatedly, throughout the bible.

            Revelation 14:12 “Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.”

            Revelation 12:17 “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”

            Revelation 22:14 “Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.”

            1 John 5:1-3 “Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.”

          • FoJC_Forever

            Those verses aren’t referring to the commandments written in the Mosaic Law. It’s referring to those who hear God’s voice – the Holy Spirit – and obey Him. The Covenant through, of, and in Jesus (the) Christ does not enforce a strict observance of a Sabbath Day on the seventh day. You’re leaving out Scriptures to enforce your belief in teaching the Law.

            If you’re going to teach/preach the observance of the Sabbath in accordance to the Law, you have to obey the entire Law. Doing so omits you from receiving the forgiveness and gift of righteousness which comes only by Faith which comes through hearing the Word of God, who is Jesus (the) Christ.

            Galatians 2:19-21

            Requiring people to keep the Sabbath on the seventh day according to the Law is like telling people they have to circumcise their male children or grown men who want to be saved from their Sin. You can’t pick which parts of the Law you’re going to enforce and not enforce.

            Galatians 5:3-5

            Your religion is one of words and text, not a living one given by the Holy Spirit to save, deliver, and heal. Quoting Scripture verses based on your or others opinions is not any different that what the Devil did when he quoted one to Jesus to seduce Him into obeying his (the Devil’s) voice. The Devil did this to Eve, then Adam through Eve, and he has been doing the same for thousands of years.

            Satan’s specialty, along with select demons, is to appear as a spirit of light, as one who gives understanding, wisdom, and knowledge. Since the Devil isn’t omniscient, lesser demons also mimic the Holy Spirit to seduce people. They don’t do this by making people feel scared or terrorizing them, but by trying to make them feel like they are a spirit of love and forgiveness and power. Along with his false light and seducing presence, the Devil uses false ministers to use Scripture to teach error and lead people down a path that appears enlightened and from God, but is only deception.

          • Becky

            Of course, those verses are referring to God’s ten commandments. The word commandments (entole in greek) is the same word Christ used in Mark 10:19 and in Matthew 5:19.

          • FoJC_Forever

            ~~

    • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

      True Christians worship God everyday but there is only one Sabbath day… 🙂

  • http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EvidencefortheBible/ Galut1

    Except for escatology and a coupe other doctrines …I have no real problem with the seventhday adventist

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/CgntvDssdnt CgntvDssdnt

    Someone should ask Carson how many of his own supporters he thinks will be going to hell.

    • GibbyD

      I do not think seventh day advents believe in Hell. The LORD Jesus Christ believed in it and provided The Way not to go there.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/CgntvDssdnt CgntvDssdnt

        Huh? If they believe in Jesus, and Jesus believes in hell, then how can they not believe in hell on the same token?

        • GibbyD

          I don’t know. I guess they just pick and choose what portions of the Bible they want to believe. I support and will vote for Mike Huckabee and The Fair Tax. I would choose Carson over Trump though .

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/CgntvDssdnt CgntvDssdnt

            Speaking of believing what you want, I guess you like to believe all those you just mentioned are in it to actually win the election.

          • GibbyD

            I suppose or why else would they be running for President. Some may be interested in name recognition and more money opportunities but I think most actually want to win. Mike Huckabee is the only candidate that has been able to beat the Clinton Machine while winning in the democrat state of Arkansas. Three time Governor in a state that the Clintons ran until MIke got in. The Fair Tax that Huckabee supports is the only thing that can save our economy .

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/CgntvDssdnt CgntvDssdnt

            Follow the Money. Huckster is a perfect example. Palin too.

            Once the get the tv show, they’re made.

          • GibbyD

            Huckabee gave up the TV program, sacrificing millions of dollars in order to run for President. He wants to save our nation and knows only The Fair Tax can help save it,

          • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

            Huckabee wants amend the constitution in order to pass religious laws…

          • GibbyD

            Only onne amendment that would state the obvious that a marriage is only to be between and man and a woman.

          • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

            Establishing a theocracy wherein Sunday Laws are enforced under penalty of law is the global agenda, and prophetic destiny of this nation. (Rev 13)

            So it really doesn’t matter which candidate is selected for the job…

          • GibbyD

            No , that is not ” the mark of the beast” as your cult leader and false prophetess, Ellen G. White taught you. Your cult teaches that the proper day of worship is Saturday, Jesus is Michael the Archangel and that ultimately Satan will bear all of our sins, when a person dies he does not exist anymore, hell is not eternal. They emphasize dietary laws and what many consider to be a legalism, especially since they teach you can lose your salvation.

            The OT system of Law required keeping the Sabbath as part of the overall legal, and sacrificial system by which the Jewish people satisfied God’s requirements for behavior, government, and forgiveness of sins. The Sabbath was part of the Law in that sense. In order to “remain” in favor with God, you had to also keep the Sabbath. If it was not kept, then the person was in sin and would often be punished (Ezek. 18:4, Rom. 6:23, Deut. 13:1-9, Num. 35:31, Lev. 20:2, etc.).

            But with Jesus’ atonement, we no longer are required to keep the Law as a means for our justification. The requirements of the Law were fulfilled in Christ. We now have rest from the Law. We now have “Sabbath continually.

            “And on the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to depart the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight,” (Acts 20:7).

            The first day of the week is Sunday, and this is the day the people gathered. This passage can easily be seen as the church meeting on Sunday though it does not necessitate it. It has two important church functions within it: breaking bread (communion) and a message (preaching/teaching). Additionally, Luke included the Roman system as well as the Jewish system of counting days. The Jewish system was sundown to sundown. But Luke also used the Roman system: midnight to midnight (Luke 11:5, Acts 16:25, 20:7, 27:27). This is a subtle point that shows the Jewish Sabbath system was not exclusively used by Luke.

            “Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I directed the churches of Galatia, so do you also. 2On the first day of every week let each one of you put aside and save, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come,” (1 Cor. 16:1-2).

          • http://www.inyourforehead.com/ inyour4head

            I have repeatedly stated that I’m not interested in converting to Catholicism yet you continue to cram Catholic doctrine down my throat and damn me to your version of hell for all eternity. How Christian of you. Last I checked Jesus stands at the door of the heart and knocks, (Rev 3:20) He doesn’t break it down using fear tactics and force- that’s Antichrist. (Rev 13:12)

            The National Sunday Law movement has been gaining momentum for decades. Where have you been for the last 100+ years? Why do you suppose most businesses and government facilities are closed on Sundays? Or the sale of alcohol prohibited? Because of the Sunday Blue Laws that already exist, and are being resurrected by apostates such as yourself who lobbied them into law in the first place. You should keep your filthy religion out of the state per the Bible and US Constitution, but you are doing exactly as prophecy says you will do because the prophecy is sure. Deny it all you like but it will never change the truth (2 Peter 1:19) or the fact that the true remnant church has the gift of prophecy in it. (Rev 12:17, 19:10)

            Speaking of cults, Roman Catholicism is the largest cult on the planet numbering its members in the billions. She isn’t the ‘mother of harlots’ for no reason. (Rev 17) Its the only religion that teaches you can disobey God and still gain heaven- (Thes 2:11-13) the very same lie you speak and the very same one the serpent spoke in the garden. (Genesis 3:4) You further propagate this lie by teaching that the soul is immortal yet you’ll never find even one scripture that teaches immortality outside of Christ. (Ezekiel 18:4) The fact that Adam and Eve were vacated from the garden so they couldn’t retain immortality (Gen 3:22) because immortality belongs to God alone (1 Tim 6:16) is a big slap in the face to this nonsense. You clearly don’t even understand what a soul is (Gen 2:7) let alone what happens when we die. (Ecc 9:5-6) Go ahead, damn me to your flames of torment for all eternity for questioning what your rabbi, priest, bishop, or pastor taught you all your life. After all, its the Christian thing to do, right? Westboro style perhaps? Feel free to get off the Roman Catholic ‘sin and confess’ merry-go-round and join yourself to Christ before its too late to do so. (Matt 1:21) Time is short.

            Speaking of life and death, health reform is of greater importance now than in any other generation in case you hadn’t noticed. Its been firmly established in well noted studies and journals that eating foods that have not been ordained by God to eat causes a whole plethora of diseases; heart disease, strokes, cancer, diabetes, etc, etc. Now you know why you and every person you know is suffering from these diseases. But hey, feel free to eat, drink, and be merry. Enjoy your gmo frankenfood, highly processed junk food, porky the pig, and every other abominable thing while you can- it will be short lived. (Isa 66:17) Slowly killing yourself using the fork and spoon is no different that sticking a gun to your head and pulling the trigger. (Exo 20:3) The results will be the same. (Heb 10:26) Don’t say I never warned you…

            Furthermore, there is only one power that seeks to change the Sabbath and it wasn’t Peter, Paul, or any other disciple of Christ as you suggest…

            And he (Antichrist) shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws. Daniel 7:25

            “The Pope has the power to change times, to abbrogate (change) laws,
            and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ.” “The
            Pope has the authority and often exercised it, to dispense with the
            command of Christ.” Decretal, de Tranlatic Episcop. Cap. (The Pope can
            modify divine law.) Ferraris’ Ecclesiastical Dictionary

            And there is only one commandment that is both a time and a law…

            “The Catholic Church for over one thousand years before the existence of a Protestant…changed the day from Saturday to Sunday.” Catholic Mirror, September 23, 1893.

            “Thus the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is an homage they pay,in spite of themselves, to the authority of the (Catholic) Church.” Monsignor Louis Segur, “Plain Talk about the Protestantism of Today,” p 213.

            Whose change is said to be a mark of religious authority…

            Sunday is our mark of authority.…The church is above the Bible, and this transference of sabbath observance is proof of that fact.” The Catholic Record, September 1, 1923.

            That will be enforced by civil law as previously stated…

            “Christians will naturally strive to ensure that “civil legislation” respects their duty to keep Sunday holy.” John Paul II – Section 67, “Dies Domini”, July 7, 1998

            “This organization proposes in every possible way to aid in preserving Sunday as a civil institution. Our national security requires the active support of all good citizens in the maintenance of our American Sabbath. Sunday laws must be enforced.” The Lord’s Day Alliance, Twenty fifth Report (1913), p6

            The first day of the week is only mentioned eight times in the New Testament and when one takes a closer look at the context of each reference it becomes evident that not one of them gives evidence to a change taking place. Its all conjecture- you (and your religious leaders) made it up in your own minds. The Sunday meeting was a farewell gathering for Paul who was about to depart on a long journey- which by the way he wouldn’t have attempted to do is he were truly keeping Sabbath. Communion was never confined to any particular day of the week either. In fact, the disciples broke bread daily as they traveled from house to house (Acts 2:46) even as I make it a habit of “breaking bread” twice a day. I preach and teach daily after their example as well. Nor is it tithe that Paul is gathering, which wouldn’t constitute a church service anyways. Paul was simply stopping by on his way to Jerusalem to pick up “monetary gifts” (Strongs # 5485) for the Christians suffering financial distress in Jerusalem. (See Romans 15:26, & Acts 11:26-30) He was gathering what we would call “love offerings” today.

            It was Jesus’ custom to worship on the Sabbath (Luke 4:16). Paul and the early church kept the Sabbath (Acts 13:13, 14; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4). The women who came to anoint Christ’s dead body kept the Sabbath (Luke 23:56). Jesus died on “the day before the sabbath” and rested in the tomb during the Sabbath (Mark 15:37, 42). Christ expected His people to be still keeping the Sabbath in A.D. 70 when Jerusalem was destroyed (Matthew 24:20). John was in the Spirit on the Lords Day more than fifty years after Calvery, and the Sabbath is the only day referred to as such (Isaiah 58:13; Matthew 12:8). Christ clearly stated that the Sabbath remains for NT Christians (Hebrews 4) and that it will even be kept in the new earth. (Isaiah 66:22, 23) I think I’ll stick with the Word of God rather than man-made institutions. (Mark 7:9)

            Okay that’s enough typing for me. I’ve already spent too much time here and honestly have better things to do than debate with stiff necked apostates who refuse to stop wondering after the beast. Go ahead and have the last word- you won’t receive another response from me on this article. We’ll find out soon enough which of us was given over to strong delusion.

          • GibbyD

            Again , I am not “protestant” because I never was or will be Roman Catholic. I was born again and saved when I saw that I was a lost sinner back in 1979. In response to hearing The Gospel and in answer to many prayers of loved ones, I , ” repented toward God and placed my faith and trust toward The LORD Jesus Christ” ( Acts 20:21; Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8,9; John 3:3; 1st Peter 1:23; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Romans 3:23; 6:23; Philippians 1:6)KJB.

            I stopped “trying to be good” and trusted in the only One Whose Goodness meant anything, The LORD Jesus Christ. When that happened God gave me The Holy Spirit and I am now able to live for Him in a manner more worthy of what it means to be called a Christian and to be a follower of The LORD Jesus.

            The LORD Jesus Christ is God incarnate. God loved the world so much that He did not want anyone to go to Hell and be separated from Him forever so He became a man , lived that perfect life that we could not and then bore our sins in His own body while on the cross of Calvary . The suffering of that was far more than you may realize. The full wrath of the penalty for our sins was placed upon Him and He bore it all so that we that believe would not have to. Nobody is going to love you as The LORD Jesus demonstrated. The LORD Jesus exclaimed , ” IT IS FINISHED !!!”

            From a recent article about your organization. ——————————“An interesting thing about the 7th day adventist religious organization is that there is no room to dissent. If you chose to keep all of the Adventist rules except you chose to continue to eat ham, then most conservative SDA’s would have to declare you sinful, your actions worldly, and your blatant disregard for God’s health laws mean that God would not save you and you would die the eternal death. All of this because you choose to eat ham, is very harsh and SDA’s are unique in how black-and-white they are over such seemingly small rules that have very little impact on ones day-to-day life that don’t hurt other people. This harsh attitude towards people over such arbitrary things makes the church very toxic and oppressive, and one reason it could be seen as a cult.”

            “Add to this the fact that conservative churches don’t leave a lot of room for interpretation of the scriptures; you are rigidly expected to obey all the 28 Fundamentals. Most other denominations, even conservative denominations, have a lot more room for movement. Add to this that within the 28 Fundamental beliefs you then have additional sub-rules within those rules that you need to keep. Take rule #20, the Sabbath – general consensus is that wading in water on Sabbath is OK, but swimming is not. These are unlisted rules and are things you need to pick up from experience/reading. This makes it extremely difficult to keep them all, which means a lot of members live in fear of breaking rules and live in a constant state of guilt.”

            “What really sets it apart though, and what might lead people to consider it a cult, is the insular culture. More so than almost any other denomination, Seventh Day Adventists encourage its members to only be friends with other Adventists, and it has designed its institution to limit the opportunity of SDA’s to make meaningful relationships with non-SDA’s. So when a SDA sins and gets judged by their church family, it is a much worse fate than what most other conservative-Christians face, as SDA’s are their only friends/family. Stakes are high.”

            Another “cult-like” characteristic that the church exhibits is that it controls the information that its members hear. It manages this by removing the situations in which SDA’s have to interact with non-SDA’s in any meaningful way. Consider the life of a typical Seventh Day Adventist:

            They are born in a SDA Church

            They go to a SDA pre-school, then to a SDA grade school and then go to a SDA high school

            They then go to a SDA college/university where they learn a skill they can use in SDA institutions (the most common are studying towards being a teacher, a pastor, a nurse or a doctor)

            They are then employed in a SDA institution

            They will marry a SDA spouse

            They then retire in a SDA retirement village

            Adventists can easily move through life in Adventist institutions, where they will predominately meet and get to know Adventists. While they will encounter non-Adventists here, they will migrate towards SDA’s. Partially this is because they “get” each other better, and part of it is the SDA will spend extra time with their SDA peers at church events/services, which take up a significant portion of their free time. For more information, I suggest you read part 1and part 2 of my analysis on Adventist insular culture.

            The result of this, is that the information they hear is filtered through the church. The SDA’s very much enforce their teachings in their institutes, including their schools/universities; they are not just SDA in-name only. The results of this can be quite startling and result in what would be considered by many to be cult-like behavior.

          • GibbyD

            MOre from the article “——————————– “Information is Controlled
            Another “cult-like” characteristic that the 7th day adventist organization exhibits is that it controls the information that its members hear. It manages this by removing the situations in which SDA’s have to interact with non-SDA’s in any meaningful way. Consider the life of a typical Seventh Day Adventist:

            They are born in a SDA Church

            They go to a SDA pre-school, then to a SDA grade school and then go to a SDA high school

            They then go to a SDA college/university where they learn a skill they can use in SDA institutions (the most common are studying towards being a teacher, a pastor, a nurse or a doctor)

            They are then employed in a SDA institution

            They will marry a SDA spouse

            They then retire in a SDA retirement village

            Adventists can easily move through life in Adventist institutions, where they will predominately meet and get to know Adventists. While they will encounter non-Adventists here, they will migrate towards SDA’s. Partially this is because they “get” each other better, and part of it is the SDA will spend extra time with their SDA peers at church events/services, which take up a significant portion of their free time. For more information, I suggest you read part 1and part 2 of my analysis on Adventist insular culture.

            The result of this, is that the information they hear is filtered through the church. The SDA’s very much enforce their teachings in their institutes, including their schools/universities; they are not just SDA in-name only. The results of this can be quite startling and result in what would be considered by many to be cult-like behavior.

            Everything that contradicts the SDA church is “planted” by Satan

            Growing up, when I was confronted with evidence that the earth was older than 6,000 years I would be told the same thing – “those bones were planted there by Satan” “that rock was planted there by Satan” no matter the evidence, it had been planted there by Satan. If someone came to me and gave me a good explanation about why the SDA churches theological beliefs didn’t make sense, I would be told “be wary of listening to anyone but the church. Satan is very deceptive and he can make things seem appealing. It issafest to not go any other church at all, and to not debate these things.” I would then be barred from going to the other church meeting. This was not just my experience; I was told this many times by other adults outside my family, and Adventists who have left will tell you similar stories.

            Obviously, in retrospect, this logic makes no sense. If someone came to me and told me this, I would say to them “so basically, you have already rejected all other ideas from the start, because you’ve already decided that Satan is behind everything. This just seems like an excuse you have come up with so that you are always right.” At the time though, it seemed to make complete sense; of course Satan would try to do things to contradict the remnant church! At times it would as far as claiming that it was Satan who was causing the microphones to not work at church, and we would pray before every meeting that Satan would not infiltrate and stop our equipment from working. Whenever anything contradicted the record or went awry, Lucifer was immediately blamed.

            We would be told on a regular, daily basis in both the home and church that “the devil is tricky” and that “Satan is deceptive”. This created a fear and skepticism that was almost impossible to breach. If you try to debate a Seventh Day Adventist, particularly those born in the church, keep in mind that they have had the information available to them filtered and controlled throughout their life from the people they trust the most. It is not that they are willfully ignoring you; it is just that they have been told these things on a regular, daily basis from the adults in their life.

            It is hard to leave/escape the Seventh Day Adventist church

            A lot of people use the fact that you are free to leave at any time as a reason to not call the Seventh Day Adventist church a cult. But are you really free to leave? I would argue that you are not, especially if you are born into the faith. Because Adventists live in an exclusively Adventist world (and are heavily encouraged live as exclusive as possible), most of the meaningful relationships/friendships that Adventists develop are exclusively with other SDA’s.

            When you leave the church, your friends/family will treat you very differently because you will now have become part of “The World”. You lose your positive, unique identity in their eyes. You lose your friends and family. You aren’t shunned, but your relationships will become very painful.

            Imagine if your family and friends, overnight, suddenly started calling you a whore? What is they would say negative, nasty things about you and your life to each other behind your back? What if they criticised every aspect of your life to your face? What if they called you a disappointment? What if they wouldn’t come to your wedding and be happy/proud of you and your new spouse? What if every conversation you had with them from now on had strong undercurrents/tones of disappointment, anger and distance? What if they cried themselves to sleep at night over your choices? What if your friends stopped talking with you? What if your parents woke up every day, sad, because of your choice, when previously they would wake up happy and proud? What if having to see them made you sick, to the point you vomited? Imagine is everyone you cared about suddenly started to do this to you overnight?

            The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

            This is what happens when you leave the church. You can walk out of your church and never come back, but we are social creatures and we care about our loved ones. When you leave, you leave a path of destruction when you exit. Overnight your good standing, love and appreciation disappears. There is little hope here; as long as you are not an Adventist, your identity will be forever lost as you become agglomerated with the rest of “The World”. Your love/affection with SDA’s is conditional on you being a Seventh Day Adventist/

            And even though you technically could never come back, you still have to deal with this. You don’t just get to never talk to Seventh Day Adventists ever again. Your life has been the church. You have connections you can’t ignore. You will have family gatherings, weddings, funerals etc to attend. And while there, you will have to be bombarded with very negative attitudes towards you and your life time after time after time, from the people you love the most. Losing your entire social support network is devastating. That is why in my guide to leaving the church, I make building up a non-SDA social support network a main, core component.

            What about other things such as Ellen G White?

            A lot of people point to Ellen G White to label the SDA church as a “cult”. White she could be labelled strange (and it could be argued the EGW had destructive ideas), I do not believe that she should be a main concern of asking whether or not the church is a cult. When we use the term cult, what most people really mean is an insular, oppressive group that has its members controlled. Whether the group meets the official definition of a “cult” is less of a concern.

            Most definitions of “cult” require there to be a charismatic leader and the closest the church had to that was Ellen White, and she is now dead. Plus she was never the official leader anyway. While, again, one could argue against her teachings, her presence shouldn’t be the concern here; its the internal culture. Although it should be noted that conservative members usually unofficially hold her writings/teachings up at the same level as the Bible.

            Is the church really that extreme?

            Seventh Day Adventists don’t live away in exclusive communities (bar extreme offshoot sects) and are usually friendly co-workers and neighbors. A lot of people might look at what I have written, and wonder if it is really true, and if so, how can they reconcile these cult-like tendencies with the people that they know and have met? This is a fair question and the answer to it is very simple; Adventists have very low expectations for people that are non-Adventists.

            Adventists separate people into two groups; Adventists, and non-Adventists. Non-SDA’s are deemed to be part of “The World”. What you may or may not know is that your Adventist co-worker/neighbour will, in the company of other Adventists, call you “worldly”. This is their term for separating you off. As discussed in my article on “The World”, Adventists have been taught from birth that “The World” is living under the deception of Satan. They therefore don’t act this way towards “outsiders”, because they have very low expectations for people in “The World”. They only act this way to each other, and so this behavior goes under the radar.

            In Conclusion

            Whether they SDA church meets the precarious definition of a “cult” does not matter. What does matter is the truth, and the truth is that large portions of the church culture are controlling, oppressive, insular and very hard to leave.”

      • Becky

        They believe in hell. They don’t believe it’s for eternity, however.

        • GibbyD

          Jesus believed and taught that Hell is forever. 7th day adventists do not believe in the immortal soul that it lasts forever .

  • Becky

    Wonder what it would be like to have a president that observes all of the commandments, including the seventh day Sabbath. Will it awaken the world to the forgotten commandment that begins with “Remember…”?