Nepali Constitution Could Make Christianity Illegal

Photo Credit: Kit Hartford
Photo Credit: Kit Hartford

NEPAL (Assist News Service) Nepali Christians fear that proposed amendments to Nepal’s new constitution, likely to come into effect on Monday (10 August) after seven years of parliamentary discussions, could eventually render all Christian activity illegal.

According to a story by World Watch Monitor (WWM), attempting to convert someone to another religion is already prohibited in Nepal, but the proposed amendments would mean that anything perceived as “evangelistic” could be punishable by law.

Article 31(3) states that “any act to convert another person from one religion to another, or any act or behavior to undermine or jeopardize the religion of another (will be) punishable by law.”

Christians fear this will pave the way for an “anti-conversion clause” to be written into the penal code, which could result in prison sentences or hefty fines for “offenders.”

On paper, WWM said, the proposed amendments read the same for all religions, but no specification is given for what constitutes an “act to convert.” In a country where 80 per cent of the population is Hindu, the hammer is likely to fall hardest on minorities, including Christians, who comprise between 1.5 and 3 per cent of the population.

Christians are concerned that if the latest draft is passed, regular Christian activities – such as holding church services accessible to all, or even simply organizing events to aid the disadvantaged – could be interpreted as “evangelistic,” and therefore punishable by law.

Nepal’s first democratic election was held in 2008, after a bloody civil war led by Maoist guerrillas overthrew the Hindu monarchy.

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Seven years later, Nepal is yet to complete its transition to a secular democracy by declaring its new constitution. Its Constituent Assembly has missed several deadlines for the announcement, as World Watch Monitor reported in April.

The Church has never been recognized as an official religious institution within Nepal, and WWM said Nepali Christians complain they have suffered inequality and persecution for decades. Christians had hoped that a new constitution enshrined by the new secular democracy would guarantee equal rights and religious freedom for all.

“We have defined full religious freedom (as) every citizen (having) the freedom to choose the religion of his or her choice … (That) people will be free to share their faith with fellow citizens. And then, also, people should have the freedom not to believe in any religion,” Dr. K. B. Royaka, a former member of Nepal’s National Human Rights Commission, told WWM in April.

However, Royaka acknowledged that “secularism does not always mean religious freedom, as we have seen in other parts of the world.”

There are those within the Nepali government who are pushing for the country to throw off its “secular” tag, and revert to its position as the world’s only official Hindu nation.

WWM said chief among the protagonists are the MPs from the nationalist Rashtriya Prajatantra Party (RPP), which is growing in popularity and shares similarities with India’s ruling Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP).

The party, which won power in 2014 after “an election campaign fueled by unbridled hate against Muslims and Christians,” according to a March report by Christian activist John Dayal.

Vishal Arora, who has reported for WWM from Nepal, says the influence of India’s BJP government is a “key factor” driving some of Nepal’s high-caste Hindu politicians to demand that Nepal be restored as a Hindu nation.

“Many of Nepal’s parties and politicians listen to what New Delhi says or wants, officially or otherwise,” he says.

There are others calling for the word “secular” to be replaced in the constitution by the words “religious freedom.”

However, WWM said while a recent editorial in the Kathmandu Post notes that although “in theory the words ‘religious freedom’ sound positive … “in practice (they) could have damaging consequences … In Nepal, the majority religion is Hinduism, and almost all the powerful people belong to this religion. They have the capacity to push for demands that Hinduism enjoy special status in Nepal, and the clause that enshrines religious freedom in the constitution will enable them to do so. By contrast, members of minority religions have relatively little political and economic clout.”

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  • Frank

    exit, stage left even.

  • Money cults like this drive me crazy. While charitable donations ought to be encouraged, the apostles and early church fathers were not held in high regard because of their economic status, they were held in high regard because of their character and wisdom. Get out of there as fast as you can!

    • Emmanuel

      Amen!!!! They gave everything they had out of the love for the church and not because they were forced and demanded. We need to learn the difference.

      • Knights In White Satin

        I see you are still with us….oh God fearing family man with a job. But alas you are still on the Endangered Species List! Sorry but I believe you are mistaken. Those of Peter’s church were definitely under a mandate (Communism) to give all to the church. Please read the story of Ananias and Sapphira (Acts 5:1-11).

        • Leslie

          Actually that would be incorrect. You don’t have to give all to the Church. You can keep whatever you wish what you can’t do is lie about it. And much like the man who was executed by God for working on The Sabbath, they were an example of the seriousness of God when he gives you rules. With Annias and Sephira it was the fact they lied to the Holy Spirit and then when given a chance to repent and admit the lie they stuck to their lie.

  • Rick Swengel

    Time to find a real church.

    • disqus_znTohz52QD

      There are no more real churches.
      We are living at Laodicean time, just before the second coming. God already judged the church and spued today’s Laodicean church from his mouth, and has withdrawn his Spirit from it. And because the place has become spiritually empty, demonic spirits entered into the church that has become “the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.” (Rev. 18:2)

      That’s why the church evicted the gifted musicians to replace them with people knowing nothing about music, only playing DEMONIC rock / pop / electric music, scratching electric guitars, beating on drum, screaming into microphone only to make noise that satisfy Satan… all over the world! The pastors preaching sermons have been replaced by entertaining clowns, to satisfy the majority of people that are now “unable to endure sound doctrine” (2 Tim 4:4). All this for the love of money, more people pleased, more income!
      Pastors are now abusing people by saying:

      – “If you don’t tithe (or pay minimum charge) you are a thief, you wear stolen garnements, you drive stolen cars, and you will go to hell.

      But now they evict people that don’t pay, they are saying:

      – “If you don’t go to church, you are not a Christian”, to force people to come and pay.

      I have even heard pastors saying to NOT help the poors, with the meaning that the full amount of what people are willing to give must be given to the church oinly, nobody else!

      The church is the Babylon of Revelation 18.

      Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and
      that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto
      heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. (Rev. 18:4-5)

      • Gary

        God has, and has always had, a remnant “which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ” (Rev. 12:17). Remember, the wheat and the tares will remain together until the coming of Christ (Matt. 13:30). The tares are permitted to grow among the wheat, to have all the advantage of sun and shower; but in the time of harvest ye shall “return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth Him not” (Malachi 3:18). Christ Himself will decide who are worthy to dwell with the family of heaven. He will judge every man according to his words and his works. Profession is as nothing in the scale. It is character that decides destiny.

        Christ has plainly taught that those who persist in open sin must be separated from the church, but He has not committed to us the work of judging character and motive. He knows our nature too well to entrust this work to us. Should we try to uproot from the church those whom we suppose to be spurious Christians, we should be sure to make mistakes. Often we regard as hopeless subjects the very ones whom Christ is drawing to Himself. Were we to deal with these souls according to our imperfect judgment, it would perhaps extinguish their last hope. Many who think themselves Christians will at last be found wanting. Many will be in heaven who their neighbors supposed would never enter there. Man judges from appearance, but God judges the heart. The tares and the wheat are to grow together until the harvest; and the harvest is the end of probationary time.

        The church was established by Christ. That being said, we must be careful, as you have outlined above, that we are not attending a church the practices the doctrinal errors of “MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH” (Rev. 17:5). Find a church that follows the Scriptures and not “the commandments of men” (Matt. 15:9). We are counseled not to go it alone (Heb. 10:25). God will prevail! Keep the faith!

        • Del Delker

          You sound exactly like every Seventh-day Adventist preacher I’ve ever heard. What’s left of that denomination is an absolute joke to Christianity.

          • jennylynn

            I didn’t hear any seventh day doctrine?

          • Del Delker

            When you’ve been a member of a church for as long as I have, you pick up on key words and phrases that are used within that denomination. I could just tell the author was SDA.

          • nochipforme

            Interesting that you bring up the “Seventh Day” doctrine. The Seventh Day Adventists have had a much more doctrinally sound teaching of the Word of God than just about any demon-ination I’ve looked at. There are flaws, but Jesus said (regarding the time of tribulation that we will enter into soon) “Pray that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath Day.” Why would Jesus describe and regard the Sabbath toward the end of time, when we are taught in these prostitute organizations that the Sabbath is Sunday (which is a lie) and that we are not to incorporate the old testament into our faith (which also, is a lie). Who is Jesus, but the very Word of God made flesh? When we reject any part of His Word, we reject Him. A god made into the image of man is idolatry. A man transformed by the Word, into the image of God, is servanthood. But know this oh man, in the latter days many will depart from the truth, turning their ears to fables and heaping to themselves teachers to scratch their itching ears.I do not adhere to any denominational doctrines, and I believe that as we get closer to the tribulation, we must, indeed adhere to the doctrines that are written for our benefit. Things are about to get really, really bad, very soon. Know God, not just know OF Him.

          • Del Delker

            I am a Sabbath-keeper and believe in the sanctity of the Sabbath. I appreciate the statement made by your name (nochipforme) and the fact that you recognize the end is coming soon. That said, I still have a huge problem with the church’s tithing system among other things. Current tithing practices can’t be backed up biblically, so we are forced to drag Ellen White into the equation for clarity. Even folks in other denominations are waking up to the fact that tithing as it is currently practiced is not biblical.

          • nochipforme

            Ellen White, I know not, but Moses, I am familiar with. And the Word of God absolutely paints a different picture of tithing and is literally impossible for anyone other than jewish farmers to celebrate the tithe, or to distribute the 3rd year tithe to the storehouses with the gates of the cities of the promised land.

            When it comes to the distribution of wealth or “giving” (not to be mistaken with the Biblical command to bring a sin “offering”) Funny how these corporations have a basket for “tithes and offerings” when both of them are commanded to be agricultural produce and livestock. But, yes, people that seek truth, find that these “churches” are intentionally lying to everyone (and even themselves).

          • nochipforme

            My user name….that’s where I draw the line. It is a decision to trust in God, or trust in the economic system that we have become dependent upon.

        • jennylynn


      • kodster

        There are ‘real’ churches… granted, they are few and far between, teaching the Gospel, not asking for tithes at all, etc., and have survived just on love donations. Pastor Mark Biltz of El Shaddai Ministries out of Washington is a perfect example. Unfortunately, the ministry is too far away for most to attend, but they do Livestream video productions where you partake online. He teaches BOTH the Old Testament AND the New Testament, from a Hebraic viewpoint… so that you get a deeper understanding of what God is telling us, instead of the ‘watered-down’ version taught in many churches.

        • disqus_znTohz52QD

          Watered-down gospel, that’s the biggest problem actually”

          “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” (2 Tim. 4:3-4)

          The only thing now the church wants is attendance, because attendance = income. But because most of people now cannot endure sound doctrine, they are preached a watered-down gospel, a “Just say you believe in Jesus and you are saved” gospel.

          Most of Christians today are only longing for good feeling that they have forgotten the fear of God. They only like a “love” gospel, but don’t accept a “love and fear God” gospel. That’s why now there are no more holiness, no more conviction of sin, no more real repentance, there are no more holy things left in the church. But God’s salvation is not unconditional, God wants a broken and contrite heart, not sensuality.
          With “Christian” rock music and Christian contemporary music, like movie music, that is based on sensuality, Jesus has become a star, a lover, and a man made idol.

          In his Chinese book “Ministry of life” page 86, Pastor Philip Teng wrote:

          “In our days, God’s revelation has been replaced by a man made doctrine, humanism has seep into theology. Even more, evangelical church is centered on a lot of human factors, for instance, man-centered worship (entertainment worship) more than on God worship; man centered sermons (believe in Jesus to obtain joy, satisfaction and peace, without mentioning repentance toward God); fellowship programs based on man’s interests, etc.
          Today in the Christian community, high educated young theological leaders must be aware of keeping Biblical faith without deviating and without any compromise!”

          Some years ago, I was looking for a church (inToronto, Canada). Because I don’t understand spoken English, I tried all Chinese churches. They are hundred of them that I found listed in a book. I spent hours on the telephone, asking questions to try to find one that is correct. I was ready to drive up to 150km to go to a good church. I also tried Indonesian churches. In vain. These churches were all entertainment churches where people play demonic music, scratching electric guitar, beating on drums, and screaming into microphones, even during prayer time…

          • kodster

            I know how you feel, 100%. I, too, have gone to several churches, looking for one that will preach the Word as it is meant to be… just as you and Pastor Teng describe. But too many of them don’t want to preach that we should fear (‘respect’, treat with awe) God as our Father. That same respect that we should honor our parents with (hence, the 5th Commandment). I have not found ONE that is preaching it, but rather, watered-down. Can’t have people knowing about the Rapture? Why not? It’s part of Scripture! Can’t have people knowing about what is going to happen in the coming Great Tribulation? Why not? It’s to their advantage to know what is coming, so that they make a decision FOR Jesus, not put it off! These pastors and priests don’t realize that they are putting a millstone around their necks in not preaching the Word as it is meant to be preached!

          • jennylynn

            Check out Blessed hope chapel. They have a podcast and are strong preaching. They also have a ministry call GOOD FIGHT MINISTRIES by pastorJoe Schimmel

          • disqus_znTohz52QD

            I checked out their website. The problem there is that for worship they use secular pop / rock / electric style of music instead of sacred music.

          • jennylynn

            I think you went to the wrong website. The podcast doesn’t have music, just over an hour of serious Bible. Good Fight Ministries is about exposing demonic music not promoting it. It has brought many people out of satanic secular music and to The Lord.

          • disqus_znTohz52QD

            Sorry, I tried several times to respond about that website but all my posts containing a link were rejected while my others posts containing no links but instructions how to find the site via Google search and keywords first appeared but then were deleted. It seams that we are not allowed here to mention a specific website with a link, not even allowed to instruct people how to find that particular website without a link…

          • Jason Collins

            “Praise Him with the timbrel and dance.. ” Psalm 150

            Please explain what YOU mean by “sacred music.”

          • disqus_znTohz52QD

            “Sacred music” is music composed under the INSPIRATION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT for the purpose of worshipping God. Only that kind of music will please God. it’s like prayer. it is written:

            “for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. (Romans 8:26-27)

            If a prayer comes from above in the heaven, then that prayer will not be rejected above, as God will not reject in the heaven that prayer He has created. Now people can try to create their own prayer here on Earth but if that prayer is not conform to God’s will that prayer He will not hear.

            It’s the same about music. if the music is written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, God will be pleased to hear it. Now the problem is that people are forcing God (and people in the church) to accept a kind of music written UNDER THE INSPIRATION OF SATAN as godly music. But how will God accept it ? As it is written:

            “for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?” (2 Cor. 6:14)

            On the internet you can find articles about wellknown rock music musicians – and now even pop music musicians – that confess composing music UNDER THE INSPIRATION FRON SATAN, or “from the devil”, or “from hell”. Now people are foolish enough to believe that that kind of music will please God… How possible?

            In the past, SACRED music was always SEPARATED and DIFFERENT from SECULAR music. That’s why great composers like Mozart knew how to write music for the church, and how to write music for other purposes. Even as Mozart’s music is beautiful, most of it is not suitable to be played inside a church. Someone can like to listen to opera but will not accept opera music played inside a church. It’s not a problem of music genres like classic or contemporary – there are good and bad classic music, as there are good and bad contemporary music – but a problem of DIFFERENCE between SACRED music and SECULAR music. But now in modern time, people are forcing the church to accept secular music – and even worse demonic music – as sacred, because most people are accustomed to that kind of music, and because they want to please the majority of people rather than please God… mostly for financial reason… That’s why now it has become impossible to differenciate church music from secular music. Worse, the music now played in the church has become even more awfull than the music played inside the nightculbs!

            “Praise Him with the timbrel and dance.. ” Psalm 150″

            There are many styles of playing timbrel and many kinds of dances. There are timbrels inside a classic orchestra as there are timbrels in other kinds of musical groups. There are ballet dances and there are evil dances. Again, there is a difference between Psalm 150 type dance and erotic dance, but people want to ignore it…

          • ProclaimingGodsTruth

            Amen and amen.Oh so absolutely true! I am experiencing the exact same thing where I live. We have “cowards’ behind our pulpits. Also, they will receive a greater judgment – James 3:1

      • Names_Stan

        >>>”God already judged the church and spued today’s Laodicean church from his mouth, and has withdrawn his Spirit from it.”<<<

        So, what, heaven was only built for you and fifteen others? All of whom you happen to be acquainted with, but who totally don't church, and there's a secret handshake instead?

        • disqus_znTohz52QD

          “So, what, heaven was only built for you and fifteen others?”

          “Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.” – Mat. 7:13-4

          • kodster

            So right! Many Christians who THINK they are Christians, but are in name only… attend church because they think it’s obligatory to show their faith, but truly don’t have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, are the ones that will be asking ‘Lord, Lord! Did I not do works in Your Name?’ Those are the ones that He will reject, because He doesn’t care about the works… He cares about the condition of your heart. Works comes about as a natural result of having a personal relationship with Him! Not instead of.

          • Names_Stan

            So Jesus wasn’t willing to give any numbers, but you’re willing to confirm the 15 estimate with this verse…

            Yeah, no blasphemy in that at all.

            Hopefully your little group has ceased singing “Victory in Jesus” though. In your theology, at 10+ billion created to fifteen redeemed, Satan obviously wins in a blowout.

          • disqus_znTohz52QD

            No, I am not willing to confirm the 15 estimate. Hopefully there are far more true Christians than 15 that went out of these man-made demonic entertainment churches.

            As it is written:

            “…Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
            Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
            Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.” (Romans 11:2-4)

            We cannot know the exact number of godly people that are out of these churches. The 7000 in the above verse may be a symbolic number of these true hidden Christians…

          • Names_Stan

            The problem with “prooftexts” like that is how “figuratively” you have to stretch to “interpret” what you want it to say.

            And then you will take a very clear, straightforward verse, and stretch it away from it’s obvious explicit meaning. As such:

            “That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.”
            I Tim. 4:10

            So a reference to an OT verse, which Paul clearly quotes “for the present time”, can be turned into “proof” of God losing creation by a score of 11 Billion to 7,000.

            And a reference which clearly says God is the Savior of all people, you’ll dismiss as a lark that “really means” something completely different.

            As with all exegesis, it’s all about starting with the answer you want in mind, then making scripture “really mean” that.

            Bottom line: You (and your 15 or so non-churching church members) need to believe God plans to torture 99% of humanity forever, and you’re gonna get to watch. So you use scripture to that end.

          • disqus_znTohz52QD

            “God is the Savior of all people” means God is the One that saves all people that truely repent and go to Him. If all people on Earth were to be saved there will be no hell, but hell is a reality. Now we can discuss the percentage of people going to hell, but the Bible clearly says that there are many people going there.
            The problem with the church today is that within it there are more false Christians than true Christians. They may have another chance to repent once left behind…

          • Names_Stan

            That’s fine for a theology. What isn’t fine is to call that “sola gracia”…saved solely by grace.

            In my opinion that theology is the main reason so many Christians today are smug and judgmental. They feel they have done the work they have to do to get to Heaven, and tough luck for everyone else.

            When they’re called on it, sometimes they will say, “oh no, I don’t wish hell on anyone”…that would normally be following a post or ten in which they wished hell on millions.

            Ask yourself this: if you are barely conscious, lying flat in the floor in a burning building…do you think that if a fireman reaches you, he would say, “if you’re able to grab my hand, I’ll get you outa here. If you’re too weak to grab my hand, you deserve to die.”?

            We would call that many things…but we wouldn’t call it love, or grace, or even good.

            This view doesn’t deny a judgment. It only says that torture of a sentient being that goes one step beyond what they earned, becomes injustice. Or evil. And quite possibly, a severe judgment could be in store for those who believed it (and cheered it on) about their Creator, who we are told “is love”.

            Honest scholars admit that the bible teaches torture, and annihilationism, and universalism. Which would make sense if God didn’t intend for people to walk around pronouncing absolute certainty in His name. Just as Jesus knew the religious of His time to use God as a weapon, some things never change.

            People dismiss His teaching of the two greatest commandments with a wave of their hand and get on with the condemnation of those who sin differently than they. And there it is, as plain as day, the story of the Synoptic gospels.

            Admittedly Paul’s theology is somewhat different. Just today I saw two posters (both who consider themselves fundamentalists or “literalists” I think) posting two different verses at each other. One says use the sword, one says don’t carry a sword. That’s the problem of legalism. People go further and further down the rabbit hole, the deeper they get into exegesis. And in all of it, they seem to make God the simplest minded Guy in the room. I just don’t see God as simple minded, and I don’t think this Creator of thousands of billions of cosmic bodies and of human sentience fits in a box that makes Him out to be smaller than a jealous history professor.

      • jennylynn

        The gates of hell won’t prevail against His church. There is always a remnant. My church is on Fire for Jesus and reaching the lost, so don’t assume every church is bad.

        • nochipforme

          You will soon see that you are wrong.

      • nochipforme

        YAY! someone else that sees the truth! Brother, the real church doesn’t occupy these local “bodies” that are mastered by the IRS. I began to announce to people a few years back that she’s gonna be stripped naked, desolate, and that the voice of the Bridegroom and of His Bride shall be heard no more at all in her. They are all ” local bodies” sold for $$$ that’s prostitution at it’s core. There’s way too much leaven in her lumps for Truth to reign, anyway. I’m writing a book called “Church: A Not-For-Prophet Corporation.”

        • nochipforme

          It’s an ebook, so it’s free! LOL

        • Christian

          So when you say Not-for-Prophet are you indeed saying prophets shouldn’t be in the church or was it a typo of profit?

          • nochipforme

            Neither. These corporations are not for prophets (against prophets). Oh, they want profits, that is why they are corporations! They do not want prophets in them, because true prophets will speak the Word of the Lord. And the Word of the Lord is against those that bare His name in unrighteousness, and wickedly pervert the Word for filthy lucre. .

          • Christian

            I was just curious if that was a typo or play on words. So am I correct in that your book is referring to churches that are like the one in this article being not for prophets but claiming to be not for profit, but in fact they are for profit? Sorry, not sure if I’m articulating that right. This is definitely a book is be interested in reading. When will it be available and how can I get it?

          • nochipforme

            Honestly, I have no idea when/if I will finish. It’s an explanation of how my hunger for God and for Truth brought me to discover some very great evils that are being committed by the “elders of my people.” I can copy and paste the incomplete work to an email. I do not plan to copyright it. I just want people to know why “church” is so fake, corrupt and is Ichabod; void of the Glory and Presence of Almighty God. I also show how the union of church and government has been a very long devised plan of the serpent to fill the people with leaven, while he literally takes over the entire world in this final beast (global order) that has risen up. These are all prophesied about in the Word of God. We are living in the last days and instead of seeking God for His direction in His Word, people are arguing over false doctrine and holding fast to very crafty lies (such as the pre-trib rapture, and tithing, just to name two major lies). America’s judgement has been sealed and we shall see this nation destroyed to bring in the final and global reign of the antichrist (who already has power), and the great tribulation shall catch just about every “church” goer with their pants down. The people really don’t want the Lord to be their King. They worship their local corporations and the images of God that are graven into their minds/hearts.

          • nochipforme

            Christmas, Easter, Good Friday, Lent… these are some other very subtle, but major lies.

          • Christian

            I too am frustrated with fakes!:-( I think there are a large number of fakes, but also a large number that are sleeping-not paying attention to the things right under their noses whether it be their home, church, neighborhood, community or country. I’m surprised by all the people that are surprised by the recent PP expose! Really?

            Do you have a website that you could post your work on? I’m not sure about putting my email here and not sure if there’s another way to chat or get your book. I really would like to read it though! Do you also expose the other lies you mentioned below?

          • nochipforme

            My post was removed.

  • In Brazil, they actually send you a bill. And there is, at least, one church that makes you pay to enter…and I think…for parking; before you enter the building. AND people actually attend. However, they are usually the uber rich that do it for some ignorant status symbol within their community.

    On the other side, I do believe congregates should support their church with whatever they possibly can (financial / time). Especially when, in my humble opinion, I expect tax exempt status may disappear in the future.

    • Emmanuel

      My former pastor would make a Top 10 Givers of the church and actually post it. I approach him and his justification was to encourage others to make the list. I told him to never put my name on that list.

      • kodster

        Glad to hear he’s your ‘former’ pastor. That is very unbiblical, since it’s no one’s business but between you and Abba how much you tithe. The only way a ‘top 10 giver’ would be recognized is via a check, or some way they can track the transaction. If no identification is made, then WHO knows how much money a member made? A ‘top 10’ could be someone who has donated a lot of money, anonymously!

  • Ben

    That is NOT the church of Jesus. It is the Modern Moronic Tabernacle. a.k.a. double M.T.

  • Janine Lea

    You need a new church. I’m sure there are many churches in your area who would welcome a hard working person such as yourself.
    I’ve never heard of a church charging dues to remain a member. That is just wrong.
    Christ will welcome you.

  • FoJC_Forever

    This is only one example of how “churches” force and influence people to pay them money. It has nothing to do with giving to the LORD’s work in the earth – helping others supporting those who are preaching and teaching the Word of God. It’s about control and false doctrine. Other “churches” are a bit more subtle, edging out people who don’t give very much money, which they do track. The more you pay in these “churches”, the more likely you are to be included in the inner circles.

    Everything a Christian has is the LORD’s. Otherwise, a person isn’t a follower of Jesus (the) Christ. We are supposed to give as the Spirit of God leads, out of generosity to help others in need, when we have the ability to do so. Selfishness has no place in Christianity. Greed has no place in Christianity.

    Some “ministers” preach things like, “You aren’t supposed to be selfish and greedy, so give to us.” They practice selfishness and greed, while telling others not to practice it.

  • John Munro

    Dues Church?

  • Peter Leh

    you can always tell you are in a good church when they pass the plate or just send you the bill.

  • Jerry_In_IL

    Any “church” that demands dues is a church to run – not walk -away from.

  • Homer for God

    I have observed that different churches have there own interpretation of what tything means. Personally I agree that God wants us to support our churches by giving time and/or 10% of our financial earnings, but I know for certain that no where in the Word is it a requirement for membership in fellowship or more importantly in God’s kingdom after judgement.
    This church, like other institutions in this world have been overcome by the sin of greed. That greed as well as the greed that drives Creflo Dollar and others paints a very bad picture to non-believers seeking the truth. This is just another tool satan uses (like removal of God in government, public acceptance of the sin of murder and sexual perversion) to cement his grip on this world and have it prepared for the anti-christ.
    I pray this sister in Christ won’t be discouraged from her faith and finds a church that teaches true values of christ and understands the individual. Most importantly a church that doesn’t judge others especially if they don’t have the money to contribute.
    Judgement is coming and we all must stay prepared.
    God Bless

  • Dave_L

    “And through covetousness shall they (False Teachers) with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.” (2 Peter 2:3, KJV 1900)

  • disqus_znTohz52QD

    That’s not a “church”. That’s what Jesus calls “a den of thieves” (Luke 19:46), or a “synagogue of Satan” (Rev. 2:9)

    A true church does this:

    “Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles’ feet: AND DISTRIBUTION WAS MADE UNTO EVERY MAN ACCORDING AS HE NEED. (Acts 4:34-35)

    But now in these dens of thieves, all people, rich or poor, are forced to pay to these thieves that keep all for themselves while mistreating all people that fail to obey and satisfy them.

    • kodster

      Exactly. Remember Ananias and Sapphira, in Acts 5:1-11. They were killed by Yahweh, for holding back from the early church, after promising that they would give EVERYTHING they owned, to the church of believers. He struck them dead, because of their lying and stealing. They PROMISED to do this, and then held back half of what they owned, and then lied before the Apostles about it.

      • disqus_znTohz52QD

        Exactly. The problem is that Ananias and Sapphira “LIED TO THE HOLY SPIRIT”:

        “But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?” (Acts 5:3)

        They were not forced to sell their land, nor forced to give any money:

        “Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power…? ” (Acts 5:4a)

        but they choose to LIED UNTO GOD:

        …why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.(Acts 5:4b)

        They “agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord”:

        “Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.” (Acts 5:9)

        It must be also said that today the church not only refuse to even help people in financial need, but instead of selling land, they BUY land and construct bigger and bigger millions of dollars buildings that rival large community centers and look more like a theatre than a church. You can find in these entertainment” churches” worth millions of dollars of audiovisual equipment, entertainment and sport facilitites, but no more a Bible in front of the seats!

        • kodster

          Agreed, 100%. There are many ‘mega-churches’ that fit this very description, today. I used to belong to one, myself, but realized it was full of hypocrites, and left it. Unfortunate, because that was the first place that I actually felt welcomed and loved by the congregation members, when I first came there. It was the leadership that turned me off. Now, I follow the Holy Spirit, directly.

  • Shaun D.

    God COMMANDS His children to pay their tithes and offerings, but outs still a matter of obedience. $1,000 is a “tithe” on $10,000, which is a lot less than her total income…..still “robbing God”. Weird church though….

    • gatekeeper96740

      I don’t recall any of the Apostles sending out collection notices. Sounds like the church of Corinth to me.Many of the churches I’ve seen nowadays teach more new age materials than Gods Word.

      In fact Paul worked and paid his own way, so as not to be a burden to the people or hinder the Word.
      Paul could say, “I will very gladly spend for you everything I haveand expend myself as well……I have not been a burden to you.” (2
      Corinthians 12:16).

      The Bible does not anywhere indicate that tithing is applicable or expected in our time at all. It was a system which was brought in following the exodus from Egypt and the forming of the children of Israel into a nation of their own.Tithing was part of the old law, or what is sometimes referred to as ‘the law of Moses’. It was given specifically to the nation of Israel, God’s chosen people:
      Ezekiel 20:10-12 “Therefore I led them out of Egypt and brought them into the desert.I gave them my decrees and made known to them my laws, for the man who obeys them will live by them.
      Also I gave them my Sabbaths as a sign between us, so they would know that I the LORD made them holy.”
      One of the very great dangers of churches demanding tithes is the accompanying perceived threat or fear that acceptance by God depends on the amount of money given. That acceptance is something money cannot buy. Often pastors of churches who tithe are very wealthy people – at the expense of their congregations, yet they often claim that they are wealthy because they have been blessed by God!

      • Leslie

        I believe it was required as well, and leaving the farms edges by not harvesting for the poor, if you’re working you are to give (according to yur ability) so the church can do charitable projects for the poor. But if tithes are not given how does the church she wants to go to stay open? It doesn’t.

        • gatekeeper96740

          That was Israel.If the church was any good and was solidly teaching the Word then they wouldn’t have a problem but what I see in The church nowadays is churchetainment.IE mega churches.

          • Leslie

            No, in fact people do it here. I give away my extra vegetables. The Mennonites up the street set up a community garden up the for the neighborhood. Most of the farmers in Western MA do this, when I was broke I got to grab some veggies from the field edges. Mega churches are fine if they teach the Bible. If you don’t have discernment to realize that sermons sometimes should make you feel convicted of doing something wrong and if it’s all feel good you probably aren’t getting Biblical teachings.

  • Emmanuel

    Many of us know about tithing and giving an offering. No big secret or issue. We also know that if we want AC, water and electricity in the church, we have to assist in paying those items. Again no arguments with that. We all help together. But, this is too much. I would too be looking for a new church. Don’t pay a dime and don’t look back. This is not right and if you can justify this through the Bible, can you give me the verses? and another thing, ever wonder why the unbelievers don’t want to go to church?

    • kodster

      Especially when those churches turn away people who are looking for help… saying, oh, that money is for us, or for members of the church, not for the poor and needy. TOTALLY unbiblical!

  • Jean Hollowell

    Guess I am a little strange, but nowhere did I see that she had to pay to attend worship. It did say she needed to contribute in order to vote. Sometimes, when it comes time for a church to make a group decision, people who do not support by attendance or finances will show up and demand a voice. Usually it is because grand mom went there. God doesn’t have grandchildren. Only children.

  • Mike Juggins

    Don’t you even get a sweaty hanky someone prayed over for your money? Not good!
    Seriously I would turn from that church madam, shake the dust off yoiur sandals and find some Christians to meet with.

  • Rev T J Carter

    Sounds more like a club than a Church. I have heard of making a pledge of so much for a building fund or something like that, but to demand payment in order to be a member of a church, no way. This is not scriptural by any means. I would leave that church for sure. They should loose their tax exemption also because that makes them a for profit organization if they DEMAND a set amount of money each year.

  • Knights In White Satin

    I read much here concerning what appears to be the Law of Tithing. If this requirement is still in effect today….as many of you seem to believe….then God’s children must be very rich indeed! For in the Old Testament under the Law….God promised to open the floodgates of heaven and pour out blessings of such great magnitude….that there would not be room enough to contain them. Now we are under a New Covenant….based on better promises. How can the floodgates of heaven be opened any wider to accommodate….the better promises of the New….as the blessing were already past containment under the lessor promises of the Old? As it is written, “Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly nor under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.” (2:Corinthians 9:7). We are not under any compulsory or mandatory giving code. Tithing is good….but if you believe you are required to tithe….It is my opinion that you are in serious error and are putting yourselves back under the Old Law. And those who try to live by the Law shall be judged by the Law. We are under God’s grace through Christ. Therefore let everyone give freely as they see fit.

    • disqus_znTohz52QD

      If the Law of Tithing is still in effect today, then all other law of the Old Testament are also in effect, because it is written:

      “For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.” (James 2:10)

      So if the church says that the Law of Tithing is still in effect today, so the other laws are also in effect, including laws about circumcision. So why are people required today to tithe but not required to be circumcised? Isn’t because the church would become empty and without income?

      “For the love of money is the root of all evil” (1 Tim 6:10)

      • Knights In White Satin

        I don’t know you or how much you know or your age or anything. So I’ll just throw what I have at you. Please don’t take offense if you already know this stuff. I am not trying to belittle you or be condescending. Everything you say is 100% true. But there is a lot of good advice for living and understanding the ways and morality of God contained in the Old Testament. Example….the Old Covenant or Law says not to tattoo your body. We do not have to go by that. But God does not change! He still does not like tattoos on His children. Likewise it is probable that our God who does not change….would still like us to tithe 10% to Him. But we do not have to do that. The New Testament seems pretty clear. But also consider….the more you give….the more you get back. So it is wise to give as much as you can reasonably afford. Plus that helps more people as to an eternal or heavenly reward.

        If you want to please God more or be better off financially I suggest tithing 10 percent. But at the same time God does not want to put any of His children under an excess burden. If all one can reasonably afford is 2 percent….God knows this and appreciates the 2 percent as much as someone giving 10 percent. And God knows it is a lot easier for a rich man to give more than for a poor man to less. All the rules and regulations are not equal. Some are just common sense things that matter little. Some were ONLY for the Israelites. God would not be pleased if we started sacrificing animals as burnt offerings again. Jesus did the ultimate sacrifice. To sacrifice animals now might be a big time blasphemous sin against Christ’s Atoning Blood. God detested homosexuality in Old Testament times. He does not change. So He still detests it. But the New Testament reinforces this as still being a sin. Which should indicate a greater degree of certainty as it is evidenced by both Testaments.

        That part about keeping the law yet offending in one point makes one guilty of all. I believe that is God’s way of encouraging us to follow Jesus….not the Law. Remember….these scriptures were written about 2,000 years ago. People and things were a little different and Jesus was something brand new that nobody understood. Most of the New Testament scriptures were written for those peoples….not us. We just inherited them. They are still just as valid today but not so easily understood because we are not living back in those days. Just a little something to consider from time to time. Bottom line….we study the Old Testament and live by the New Testament. And over the years they kind of blend together as they compliment each other. We study the Old Testament to better understand God and to better understand the New Testament as well. Exercise some common sense and do the best you reasonably can.

        Back to the Law of Tithing. I can only conclude that you are correct. It is good to tithe if you can afford it but you are under no such obligation. God knows how much money you can spare and so do you. Preachers or Churches that claim the Law of Tithing is still in effect either what your money real bad or are just plain ignorant or stupid. Remember we all have human-nature with its sinful tendencies and even the best people are human and make honest mistakes. If you believe someone to be a crook or just plain ignorant….get away from them. That’s about all I can think of now and it’s getting very late. Study and think for yourself and always try to be honest with yourself….because you have the sinful nature too. Sometimes we are tempted to deceive our own selves if it suits our situation. And I am not perfect either. Everything in this post may not be 100% correct. I do the best i can but I am human too. I do not claim to be infallible….as does the Catholic Pope. I hoped this helped some.

        • disqus_znTohz52QD

          I agree, there is a lot of good advice for living and understanding the ways and morality of God contained in the Old Testament.

          Concerning tithing, i would like to add that we also have to pay attention HOW we do it. In the Old Testament, a lot of verses are about “the stranger, fatherless, and widow”. Example:

          “Cursed be he that perverteth the judgment of the stranger, fatherless, and widow. And all the people shall say, Amen.” (Deut. 27:19)

          If we are careful of how we spend our own money to not being cheated, we also must be careful with God’s money. I don’t think God will be happy if the money given to a church will end in the hand of a already rich leader that want a new sport car or a Rollex watch. That’s why I would rather send money to poor children in Indonesia than giving it to the already too rich leader of a local church.

          “But also consider….the more you give….the more you get back. So it is wise to give as much as you can reasonably afford.”

          If this was true, I would be one of the richer man on Earth, because I am a person that like to give and help other. But according to my experiences, I don’t know why, it’s the opposite that happens. Maybe bcause the more I give, the more Satan beats me ? That would indeed be a sign that I give properly…

          • Knights In White Satin

            I see you have a pretty good head on your shoulders. But the OVERCOMING of the….BIG THREE….SIN….SELF….SATAN….is not easy. I’m NOT rich either. Most Christians are not. Just keep the faith and keep on trying. There are lots of verses of scripture that pertain to….PERSEVERANCE.

          • Christian

            In my personal experience I do get more the more I give, but here’s the difference… I don’t only give to/in churches of money only. I serve in the church in various ministries as well as outside the church- volunteering in a crisis pregnancy center, taking time to speak to and/or pray with homeless or other people as I am led etc. I give material goods (not just money) as well as my time, compassion, attention etc.

            I have received back things like joy, peace, provision-not just money or material goods (though at times it has been things of that nature). This may challenge the thinking of some, but it says blessings not money for money! What blesses one person may not bless another, and think about it-the Lord knows our needs, so if we needed xyz that we gave away to an extent that it would become a hardship would He not then provide for that need even if it meant doing it in a way other than we see fit? If you are truly allowing the Lord to lead you in your giving (of any kind) you will be blessed abundantly!

            Let’s say you need a specific clothing item for an upcoming function. You have the money and have searched all over town, but can’t find said item. Later the Lord leads you to take a single mother and her children grocery shopping because she ran out of food before her next paycheck. Later on someone gives you a bag of used clothes and tells you how they were led to give it to you. Mind you they could have given it to someone else and they had actually originally planned to put it in a roadside donation box. You get home and low and behold the exact item you need for the function is at the bottom of the bag and a perfect fit! Now, you could have also rejected the blessing by not taking the time to acknowledge, explore and receive it. You may have felt burdened or not had the time or desire to go through the bag and then put it in a roadside donation box yourself.

            I think there are some Christians that are asleep or too busy to truly see God’s hand in and on their life. They don’t recognize blessings as they come:-( We still have free will and just as we have the choice to reject Jesus Christ as Lord we can also reject His blessings. I truly hope that these examples get you to think, follow where the Lord leads you and to see and appreciate when and how He blesses you even when it seems remote and unconnected.

      • Mike M

        The love of money is the root of all KINDS of evil. Vengeance, jealousy, power, hatred, anger, sex are also reasons for evil. “Each man should give what he has decided IN HIS HEART what to give, NOT reluctantly OR UNDER COMPULSION, for God LOVES A CHEERFUL GIVER.” 2Corinthians 9:7.

  • Sharon Jackson

    You are to give “whatever a man purposeth in his heart”. In other words if you meant to put $10 in the plate when it is passed, but put in $100 by mistake. You will get credit in God’s eyes for the $10 because that is what you really wanted to give. If the Lord died for us at no charge, what right does a church have to charge people to worship this same Lord. I know churches have certain financial commitments and therefore “passing the plate” for donations is fine. But this church’s pay to pray agenda is not a true Christian church. Look for another church. You will never find the perfect church because they are filled with people. However, look for the church that preaches the Bible and the Word of God, and you will know when you find it! I attended several Gospel Chapels. There was a box in the back of the church. If they needed repairs, new bldg. etc. the pastor simply said we have a need and the box would fill up and the needs were always met.

  • Joseph Clem

    The issue is this: “To be a member in good standing and have the right to
    vote, adults are to contribute the minimum amount of $50 per month.” If
    you do not want to “be a member in good standing and have the right to
    vote,” you don’t have to give anything. Only about 2-3% of Christians
    tithe. The rest give far less than a tithe, or not at all.

    The fact that she made this letter public tells us volumes where her heart is and what her motives are!

    • Psygn

      ????. Why don’t you tells us where her heart is and what her motives are?

      • Joseph Clem

        If you are in a right fellowship relationship in a church, you take your concerns first to the church leadership, and resolve your concerns there, not to the medias of this world. This was a church matter that should have been handled from within, not broadcasted in Gath. All the church was telling her is this:

        If she wanted the right to vote on church matters, it should cost her something more than sitting on a pew.

        • Knights In White Satin

          Sorry….I have to but in again. You need to watch the video again. She was being charged REQUIRED DONATIONS for other things as well. And there is no such thing as a required donation….that is an oxymoron. Required donations should be illegal and should be fully taxable as this is nothing but an attempt to skirt the IRS code. It is very disingenuous and makes the church look bad. This type of thing is going to cost American churches their tax exempt status in the foreseeable future. If it were me I’d make one phone call to the church. That’s it. It is obvious from the “invoices” she possessed that’s the way that church conducts their “business.” The church is the one who was being very impersonable by sending out “billing invoices” in the mail. And by doing so they invited her response. No reasonable minded individual would expect the church to change that kind of entrenched financial behavior because of the complaint of one new member.

          And you are not being fair in your assessment of “Right Fellowship” in the church. The church is the one whom is OUT OF RIGHT FELLOWSHIP in relation to this woman. They just mailed her a stack of “collection notices” as if she was six months behind on her car payments. That is no way for church leadership to behave towards its members! Leadership has the responsibility to know right from wrong and establish “right fellowship relations”….not the NEW church member. She was new to the neighborhood and I assume to the church. It tells you in the video she had only been living in her new home for six months. Also the reporter on the video states that there are other church members who are complaining about the very same thing. Like I said….if it were me I’d make one phone call to the pastor if I could get a hold of him….then either out the door or right to the press or both. For I would be OUTRAGED!!! Because I am OUTRAGED RIGHT NOW JUST THINKING ABOUT IT!!!

          • Joseph Clem

            Like I said, matters such as this should have been handled WITHIN the church, NOT out in the public press. Most churches I have been a part of required some sort of membership class, commitment, and acceptance by the church to be a VOTING member of the church. But again, democracy is for government, not for the church. Since she was offended by the manner in which this church operated and treated her, if she couldn’t resolve her concerns, I would have been out the door to find a another church, hopefully one that met her spiritual needs because the underlying problem here is spiritual, not mammon.

          • KenS

            As I said above, the only requirement to join a new testament church is for the individual to be saved and then baptized. The baptism automatically makes you a member of the church.

            Acts 2:41 41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized : and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls

        • KenS

          The church should not have been telling her that. Church membership has only 2 requirements: 1) Saved, 2) Baptism.

          • Joseph Clem

            You are right, but many churches run their church as a democracy. When they do, all kinds of other requirements come into play, such as voting requirements. But the Church is a theocracy, not a democracy.

    • Knights In White Satin

      Exposing these detestable practices in the….Body of Christ….of which I am a member….is the most excellent motive I can think of.

  • Knights In White Satin

    There are many here who claim a Spirit of Greed has infiltrated many churches. Based my recent experience I must concur. My mother was a member in good standing for over 30 years with our local Baptist church. She passed away just three months ago and I was informed that I would have to pay $1,000 dollars to bury my mother in the church cemetery as she was no longer considered a member in good standing. My mother was 87 years old and in the last two years of her life she suffered from poor health and was not able to get out and about much. And during that time….I was informed….the church members had taken a vote and decided that to be considered a member in good standing….and thus entitled to a free burial plot….members would now have to maintain a minimum attendance record of at least 50%. Therefore my mother no longer qualified. The sad part is that my father was buried there in 1982 with a double headstone and double burial plots were allocated at that time. In other words I had to pay $1,000 dollars for a burial plot that was already allocated for my mother under the 1982 church covenant….that nobody else could use anyway! I find it bad enough that when someone dies the “world” has their hand out. But when the church gets into the act….that’s pushing things too far. Needless to say I was both deeply hurt and offended by this “extortion” in my time of grief.

    • disqus_znTohz52QD


  • Debby

    She signed it, she owes it. “review of [her] financial contribution record and the amount needed to retain [her] membership.” Don’t make promises you can’t keep

    • Knights In White Satin

      I didn’t know Jesus charged membership dues to remain in HIS church!

  • Liz Litts

    Time to leave honey! Find a place that is REALLY the body of Christ! And that really cares for you like Jesus does. His Love is a free gift-not to be bought and sold.

  • DEB W

    go to Calvary Chapel in Tampa. Bible teaching, Non denominational…They don’t do such things. Awesome church.

  • 123Star

    Jesus is full of Mercy and Grace.
    Jesus understands peoples positions and knows everything about us all.
    Book of Malachi Chapter 3 tells us, to give 10% of earnings to the Church.
    Church has Bills to pay etc. Church is designed to be a House of Love and
    at times like a Hospital caring for the needy.
    When someone makes a commitment to any Church, being a member to a the
    Family of God is awesome. As in this case, the words seem a little harsh to that
    women, but if your not making any communication to the Pastor and body of the
    Church, seems like that person is not really staying intouch as she should considering her situation. I’m sure Prayers are being sent her way and hopefully a good job will help her out, God is able. Church represents Jesus, lets look to him always for our answers. God Bless You All…

    • Knights In White Satin

      In my opinion….tithing is of the Old Covenant of the Law. We are under the New Covenant of Grace. Malachi is of the Old Testament and is NOT even part of the Torah or the Law. Those who step back into the Old Law inappropriately run the risk of putting themselves back under the law. And those who try to live by the law will be judged by the law. And thus make the Grace of Christ to no effect. “Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly nor under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.” (2: Corinthians 9:7) I know of no New Covenant scriptures that reinforce tithing. Jesus did not teach His disciples to tithe and as far as I know when Jesus spoke of tithing it was to the Scribes and Pharisees concerning that which they were already doing under the Law. Also the New Covenant did not go into effect until Christ actually died on the Cross….when He said, “It is finished” and breathed His last.

      But in the book of Acts the Apostle Peter….the first and only Pope….acting upon his own “special” authority given him by Christ….ran his churches as communes or what we would call today….communism. As those individuals had to give 100% of all they possessed to the church. (Acts 5:1-10) I believe tithing is good for instilling financial discipline. And as is stated in second Corinthians….those who sow generously….will reap generously. But one is not obligated to do so. And doing so under a sense of obligation is leaning oneself back towards the Old Law. If one tithes voluntarily under our New better Covenant with better promises….it seems to me that individual would reap a far better blessing or return than under the Old Covenant. But it is hard to see how….for under the Old Covenant God promised to open the floodgates of heaven and pour out blessings that were so great that they could not be contained. This is my understanding concerning tithing. If you know of a better theology or any New Covenant scriptures concerning tithing I would be most anxious to hear about them. As I make no claims to infallibility and I am always eager to learn more about the ways and morality of God.

      • 123Star

        OK, important to remember Jesus came to Earth to Fulfill all scripture, meaning everything that was Prophetical said about Jesus in the Old Testament would come to pass. ((Now remember, The One that wrote all scripture that was inspired by The Holy Spirit was Jesus!!)) God The Father made the New Covenant a better one, because He sent His Only Beloved Son to defeat the works of the devil. And by dying on The Cross, Jesus bored all mankinds sins!!! WOW, what a plan God had to Save all that would only believe in Him !!! God knows the Spiritual Battle we face each and every day, but He is with us always!!!
        The Old Testament brought out so much about mankind. God always asked for sacrifices (shedding of blood) for the remission of their sins. Now having is Son to complete the plan of salvation,Rise from the dead and is Alive as we speak!!! God has His Kingdom and we are invited to share with Him something So Awesome, No pain–No heart ache–no death–no fear-no anger and no opposition for a 1000 years!!!
        So giving 10% tithing goes to God, because every good thing comes from above. God says, you give to Me and I’ll protect you from evil. God has so many promises for us, about 7000 of them in the Bible. The Old Testament was a shadow of the New Testament. Every Word God wrote for our own good, Old and New!!!
        Finally, God did so much for us, now it comes down to the fact, what can we give back to Our Loving Lord and Saviour…Being Grateful and obedient to Gods ways and being Born Again(full of His Spirit) you put yourself in His hands and what a wondrous journey it will be. The most challenging experience you’ll ever go through, we need Him to guide and show us always. Keep seeking 🙂
        Sing it: Oh The Blood of Jesus 3x it washes white as snow..!!!

  • Sounds like a business, or private club. I say that revokes their tax-exempt status.

  • Saroj Tuladhar

    Church like this cares only about money. They don’t care about FAITH, GOD. Sadly you can find such money minded or money centered church all around the world.

  • Knights In White Satin

    We in the Body of Christ better prepare ourselves for challenging years ahead. In light of their recent monumental victory….same-sex marriage….the now emboldened secular forces have already increased their attacks upon all things Christendom. There is already a strong and ever-growing sentiment building in this country to revoke the tax-exempt status that the church has benefited from for as long as anyone can remember. The dreadful example of this church’s financial practices has outraged most of you. Just wait until the “world” gets wind of stories like this one. This is just the kind of ammunition atheists and other secular enemies of the Church are looking for. And we have to be honest with ourselves. Required donations are an oxymoron. By its very definition a donation can NEVER be REQUIRED. As soon as it is REQUIRED it ceases to be a donation and immediately becomes income….fully taxable income. Those who REQUIRE DONATIONS are disingenuous to say the least.

    Actually we are lying to ourselves, the IRS and the broader society. And as every good Christian should know….lying….especially on such a large scale is a sin. Aside from that we make the Church look bad and create stumbling blocks to a great many unbelievers. Many of whom were already looking for stumbling blocks or excuses to stumble away from us. For they have long taken note of our hypocrisy. Why do you think this new young highly educated millennial generation has been leaving the Church in droves? I have had a lot of communications with atheists, agnostics, fallen-away Christians and young millennials. The problems in….Our House….are more obvious to them then they are to us who live in it. We all know we have already lost the battle over same-sex marriage. Personally I believe we have already lost the Millennials as well. And I am fairly certain that we will lose our tax-exempt status in the foreseeable future. These losses only leave me to wonder in wide-eyed astonishment….what will we lose next?

    • Homer for God

      According to the Word, a lot more. As signs are coming true now (worldwide acceptance of the sins of sexual perversion and mass murder of innocent children, ISIS, the nuclear talks between the US and Iran that we know will open an attack on Israel) we have to be prepared for what’s to come. Don’t be surprised if the very mention of religion will be voted on and written out of the constitution.The mark of the beast will be used soon after and if we profess God as your Lord and savior, we will be subject to the worse kind of persecution like jail time and even death.
      The great thing for the faithful followers of Christ and His Word,Rapture will happen first, but untill then prayer and Discipling is key.
      Essentially we have to present the choice of salvation. Judgement day will only tell if those undecided have come to God or not. We just have to be vigilant.
      God Bless.

  • runnindeer

    This sounds like they are using the funds for political reasons and it has nothing to do with Scripture or Christianity. She needs to go to a real church and I will add to those that say there are no real church’s, you are wrong. There are many. Ask GOD in prayer- ask right and Believe, then go find one.

  • Erin Elaborate

    A church doing something exploitive and unethical? Shocker. When you base a business off of superstition and magic, I guess you can make up any rules you want.

  • Jason Collins

    I find it more disturbing that Christians need to be “reminded” to uphold their financial duties than the church sent out a letter. There is a financial system in the Kingdom of God and it is spelled out very clearly. In order to receive, you must GIVE, and you will reap in a manner consistent with your sowing.

    Pride may be the sin from which all other sins arise, but greed is holding strong at #2.

    • disqus_znTohz52QD

      “In order to receive, you must GIVE, and you will reap in a manner consistent with your sowing.”


  • ProclaimingGodsTruth

    Flee – flee – flee from any church that lays heavy burdens on its people! For Jesus says – “For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” -Matt 11:30 (KJV)

  • Gabriel A. King

    Maybe it’s time to seek God and quit “playing church”….

  • Late Lament

    I don’t know if this needs pointing out but we are not 2,000 year old Hebrews! It seems there is some confusion concerning the “Law of Tithing” and thereby the Old Testament. God offered the “Children of Israel” a legally binding contract. This contract or covenant was offered ONLY to the “Nation of Israel” and they agreed to it. This Old Covenant of the Mosaic Law was never intended for any other peoples (Exodus 19:3-8). I don’t know how anyone ever got the idea that it ever applied to anyone else. And as nobody but the Nation of Israel was ever under the Old Covenant to begin with I find it absolutely amazing how anyone could believe that any part of it….Law of Tithing….could possibly apply to us today even if there were no New Covenant to replace it. But there is a New Covenant to replace it and it applies to all the peoples of the earth. So why would you want to want to put yourself under the Old Jewish Law that never applied to you in the first place when we now have….a better covenant based on better promises (Hebrews 8:6). Unless you are a 2,000 year old Hebrew you are under the only covenant God has ever offered anyone….the Blood Covenant of Christ….which contains no tithing requirements and began on the Cross when Christ said….it is finished.

  • Anita

    We still have sound doctrine Churches I myself belong to one God is still in control

  • Lupe

    Should have known from the teaching. Obviously hasn’t read about the Bereans.

  • John Boyt

    One would gain more by just staying home and reading their bibles. These church organizations are nothing more than money vacuum cleaners that want to clean out your pockets. Don’t fall for the emotional blackmail. Vote with your feet and give your spare money to a food bank.