Bridal Shop Threatened for Declining to Assist With Lesbian ‘Wedding’ Closing Its Doors

Photo Credit: W.W. Bridal Facebook page

BLOOMSBURG, Pa. — The Christian owners of a bridal shop in Pennsylvania who have been receiving threats since declining to assist a lesbian with her wedding last July have decided to close their business due to fears of an impending ordinance that would require them to violate their faith, as well as the inability to market themselves in light of false negative reviews.

“The members of our town council have made it known they will pass an ordinance soon. We have chosen to close rather than be forced to go against our faith,” W.W. Bridal Boutique in Bloomsburg, co-owned by Victoria Miller and her three daughters, explained on social media on Sunday.

The boutique has discounted all wedding gowns to half price as the women plan to close their doors permanently on March 30.

As previously reported, the bridal shop first came under criticism in 2014 after Miller and her daughters declined to schedule a gown fitting for a lesbian and her partner.

“We feel we have to answer to God for what we do,” Miller told reporters at the time. “And providing those two girls dresses for a sanctified marriage would break God’s law.”

Last July, W.W. Bridal Boutique again became the focus of the ire after the women declined to assist another lesbian woman with her wedding as they believed it would be a form of personal participation in an event that violates God’s law. As the matter made national headlines, Miller explained that it is not the person, but the event that poses a conflict. She noted that she and her daughters have sold formal wear to homosexuals without issue.

“We have provided formal wear for our customers from all walks of life, including the LGBTQ community. We have always served everyone with respect and dignity,” she told the Huffington Post. “It is just this event, a same-sex marriage, which we cannot participate in due to our personal convictions.”

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“We simply ask that we be given the same ability to live our lives according to our convictions,” she said.

However, a number of homosexual advocates contacted the boutique to threaten harm, including those who professed to be Christians.

“You stupid [expletive] bigots. We are coming for you and your family,” one angry man warned in a voicemail. “We are going to tear your shop apart and make you feel as bad as you have made people feel. You [expletive] bigot scum. You are going down and so is [sic] all your employees and their families. You’re done!”

The boutique closed for a time and only accepted appointments by appointment, but the threats—including death threats and other intimidation—continued coming. Miller and her daughters posted some of the email and voicemail to social media this week to provide examples of the comments they have been receiving.

“Rot in Hell you disgusting excuse for human beings,” one message stated. “I hope you go out of business because you deserve nothing less and a whole lot more for your shameless discrimination.”

The women also took time to explain their Christian convictions in light of questions that they have received about the matter.

“Many have asked why we have taken the stand that we have. Matthew 19:4 ‘And He answered and said to them, ‘Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.’ This is the reason we only participate in biblical marriage,” Miller and her daughters wrote.

“We have the right given to us by God and the Constitution to live our lives according to our faith. We will not be forced by government, local ordinances or bullies to participate in something that goes against our faith,” they stated.

Now, as the women believe that a nondiscrimination ordinance will soon be passed by the Bloomsburg City Council that would prohibit them from declining to take part in same-sex ceremonies, Miller and her daughters have decided to close the shop.

“I guess what would happen is that a customer would come in and once we deny them, they would sue us,” co-owner Lisa Boucher told the Christian Post. “You know how that goes with other [businesses].”

She also noted that members of the public have submitted false reviews online, claiming that they have been to the business and were mistreated, when the women have no record of any such person being at their boutique.

“It’s kind of hard to promote a business when you are being attacked,” Boucher said.

“We are closing and this is our livelihood,” she lamented. “At this point, we don’t have any plans of what to do in the future. We are kind of just resting on God’s Word and hoping that He is going to pull us through it and open some sort of doors. I am sure He has blessings and will take us to wherever He wants us to serve, whether it be in our church or volunteer locally.”

A crowdfunding page has been launched to help those who will be losing their income due to the closure.


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  • Debbie Kelly

    Stand firm! The world is trying everything to bully and push us around. Jesus Christ will take care of these. I thank God for Strong Christians such as yourself. There are many, many, standing with you.

    • SammySeattle

      Hmmm, never knew that Jesus Christ was such a strong advocate for hatred, bigotry and discrimination.

      • Charles

        That’s because you don’t know Jesus.

        • SammySeattle

          Ah, so Jesus Christ is an advocate for hatred, bigotry and discrimination. Good to know.

          • Charles

            Well.. He hates, and discriminates against practicing sinners… Clearly, you don’t. Good to know.

          • SammySeattle

            I must have missed the chapter and verse where Jesus espoused hatred of any kind against a human being.

          • Charles

            You must not be reading a Holy Bible then. Kabbalah maybe?

          • Charles

            Let’s start with this verse:

            (Mal 1:2) “I have loved you,” says the LORD. But you say, “How have you loved us?” “Is not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the LORD. “Yet I have loved Jacob
            (Mal 1:3) but Esau I have hated. I have laid waste his hill country and left his heritage to jackals of the desert.”

          • SammySeattle

            Let’s start with verses that predate the birth of Christ to support his alleged espousal of hatred for another human?

          • Charles

            That IS Jesus Speaking. (Joh 10:30) I and the Father are one.”. They are of one accord. No disagreement between the Father, Son, or Holy Spirit. They are one.

          • SammySeattle

            Choose your adventure.

  • bowie1

    I would say those who threatened them with violence are the bigots not to mention engaging in criminal behavior.

    • Cady555

      The threats of violence are wrong, and it happens on both sides. Non christians are subjected to identical sounding threats when they oppose christian privilege.

      • Jana

        If non Christians are receiving threats from Christians I doubt that they are really Christians since this goes directly against what we are taught in the Bible about how to treat people we disagree with. There are people who claim to be Christians and people who actually are Christians. It is easy to just say that you are one. Emotions about this issue obviously runs high, but going to the level of threatening others shows me that something is wrong.

        • Cady555

          No True Scotsman? Nice try.

          Christians are people who claim to follow Christ. And some christians send death threats to people who stand up to christian privilege. Just like some non christians.

          Any parent who speaks up to say they do not want teachers and coaches to promote christianity to their children will get death threats from some loving christians without fail. Look up any case, anywhere in the country. You will find that death threats have been aimed at the complainants.

          People who send anonymous death threats because people disagree with them are pathetic. Regardless of viewpoint.

          It was the realization that christians are just like non christians – no better and no worse – that was the first step to my realization that it is all make believe. Most people, christian or not, are just average, normal people. A few are nasty. A few are incredibly kind. But christianity has no power to change anyone.

          • Jana

            According to Jesus, the Author of this faith, not everyone who claims to be Christians are actually Christians. Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of
            heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven”. Matthew 7:16
            You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?” So what are the fruits that you look for in Christians?

            Galatians 5:22
            “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, self-control”. So, does all these fruits mean that we never say things to people that might hurt them or that they may not like? No. Ephesians 4:15 “Rather, speaking THE TRUTH (how?) IN LOVE, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ,” Standing with placards that claim that God hates homosexual people and sending them death threats carry none of the fruits of the Spirit. That is pure hate. But being in a polite conversation, and a Christian warning a homosexual about God’s view on this is not hate, it is love. As a Christian, I truly believe in a place called hell, and I believe in God’s judgement. If I believe that a real place called hell exist and that by rejecting Jesus, you will go there, what would be the loving thing for me to do? Stay silent?! Shouldn’t I warn you?

            Regarding your comment about Christians acting just like non Christians a few things. Do I perfectly live out the fruits of the Spirit? No. Which is why I need God desperately. I did not instantly gain perfection or grow wings the moment I accepted Jesus. Christians aspire to become “more like Jesus”. However, that is a process. It takes time. When I accepted Jesus, I was instantly saved “salvation”. Now I have to walk in my salvation and become like Jesus “sanctification” and just like a new born baby growing into an adult, I have to grow up in Christ which means I make mistakes along the way. If you have a Christian in your life, you should see that person increasingly bearing more of the fruit of the Spirit , even if they still make mistakes. Actively hating people and sending death threats is a huge red light though. Often, Christians are very bad representatives of God’s kingdom… I have been a bad example myself but you can not judge the truth of Christianity based on the actions of Christians. Regardless of Christian behaviour, Christianity is either true or false and you need to find out which one is it. Objective truth doesn’t change based on various variables. Neither your opinion, or feelings, or my actions can change truth.

            Christians are like you said, average normal people but we serve an extraordinary God. It’s not about us but about Him. If it’s all about you, and by what you gain from being a Christian and not about Him, then yes I guess you won’t change. Space and time on Disqus doesn’t allow me to have an in depth conversation with you, I wish I could sit with you and discuss all this. I will pray for you, Cady that God will work in your heart and show you the truth. At least I can do that 🙂

    • Mr. Chips

      Agreed. Threatening violence is criminal and wrong. Asking to purchase a wedding dress from a shop that sells wedding dresses is not. The women who attempted to purchase wedding dresses from the shop received death threats as well.

      • Jana

        How do you know that? What is your source?

        • Mr. Chips

          I heard this couple speak at a really where they talked of being the victims of intimidation and death threats. How do we know that the owners of the bridal shop received death threats? They said they did.

          If we’re being honest people on both sides of this issue have been called intolerant bigots, but only one group in this country has had laws written that specifically target them. (Hint: It’s not Christians.)

          “If Christians have to allow these people to live out their lifestyles and make their own decisions they must do likewise and leave Christians to live out their lifestyles and make their own decisions!!” Gay people have lives, not lifestyles. Here’s the thing – Christians haven’t “these people” to live their lives as they see fit. They were instrumental in passing laws like DOMA and DADT, and they were also the driving force behind Prop 8. There are many Christians in America who want homosexuality to be illegal. Some would like it to be a capital crime. What are they gays doing? Expressing upset at being refused service by a handful of Christian business owners, and discussing their experiences on social media. These aren’t analogous situations.

          • Jana

            “How do we know that owners of the bridal shop received death threats? They said they did”. They didn’t just say they did they actually posted the original threats for all the world to hear. THAT’S how we know they received death threats. I disapprove laws that discriminate against homosexual people as far as things for example jobs are concerned. I don’t think people should be discriminated against based on their sexual orientation. I believe the right of homosexual people to live the way they choose should be respected, since we have all been given a thing such as free will. BUT it is not discrimination when you turn away a lesbian couple if you are providing a wedding service. Unlike a situation such as jobs, which are morally neutral, providing a wedding service is not morally neutral. Christians believe marriage was instituted by God, not man. God created us man and woman for a reason. Marriage is between one man, and one woman. So because this is a moral, faith issue for Christians, we must have the right to turn away same sex couples since we feel providing a service to them would show in an indirect way that we support what they are doing.

          • Mr. Chips

            We both agree that death threats are wrong, as are laws that allow for the discrimination of homosexuals. We’re on the same page until it comes to businesses that provide wedding services turning away same-sex couples. That is discrimination. If a Muslim business owner turned away a Christian couple away because of their deeply held religious beliefs, would that be discrimination?

          • Jana

            No because he is acting according to his beliefs.

          • Mr. Chips

            If after being refused service the Christian couple were upset and wrote about their experience on their FB page would you condemn them for “trumpeting it out on social media,” suggesting they “knew very well that if they took to social media, it will create a storm”? (How would they know? Most social media post don’t go viral.) Would you also say the Christian couple should have simply gone “to another shop that is willing to serve them without a fuss”?

          • Jana

            When it is a homosexual issue yup, it ALWAYS creates a storm they knew it would. Christians being refused service just doesn’t have the same effect. Yes, the Christians should just go to another shop that is willing to serve them without a fuss.

          • Tess208

            They played the threats. What more would you like?

          • Mr. Chips

            “They played the threats.” What does that mean?

        • seeeteee

          intolerance of intolerance is not intolerance. one of those things happened first.

          • Gigi

            “How dare you be intolerant of my intolerance!” They’re super sad that people are now challenging their anti-gay discrimination. It’s not like the “good old days” when DOMA and DADT were still law.

          • Jana

            Challenging discrimination by discriminating mmm… makes perfect sense doing what you accuse others of doing.

          • Gigi

            Are you seriously this clueless? Not tolerating intolerance isn’t discrimination. It’s calling people out, and shining a light on their intolerance.

          • Jana

            Oh great!! So then, I am not discriminating by being intolerant towards your intolerance. I am calling you out and shining a light on your intolerance. See, it goes both ways. Tolerance by the way is having differing views and still respecting other people’s right to have a different view. We can differ, but still coexist. Tolerance in this case would have been for the shop owner to respect that those woman are lesbian, politely refuse to serve them based on her beliefs, and for the lesbian women to accept that she didn’t want to serve them based on her beliefs and just going to another shop that is willing to serve them without a fuss.

          • Jana

            Both sides need to respect each other. Christians should respect the fact that gays/lesbians make their own choices. Gays/lesbians should respect the fact that Christians disagree with their lifestyle and that they should not be forced into indirectly supporting something that they believe to be wrong. Your intolerance is intolerant.

    • Freedom foundation

      Homosexuals are cowards, so I would not take any of their threats seriously. Losing one’s means of making a living is the main crime.

  • james blue

    A self employed person should be able to do or refuse to do legal business with whomever they wish for whatever reason they wish.

    • Cady555

      Just like during Jim Crow? Businesses then could refuse to serve blacks.

      No. Discrimination does not work. Businesses benefit from the societal infrastructure of roads and police protection. This means everyone living in the community has a right to buy the products those businesses sell.

      • james blue

        Jim crow dictated businesses HAD to segregate, so no, not “just like Jim Crow”. But businesses should have the right.

        Please do not think this means I would approve of a business that does discriminate. Just like free speech —- I’m not defending what someone says, I’m defending their right to say it.

        • Cady555

          In a perfect world, I might agree with you. But we don’t live in that world.

          If one business owner discriminates, the second business owner is stuck with a political statement when they accept or refuse that business. This happened when the FFRF tried to have flowers sent to Jessica Ahlquist. If the flower shop had delivered the flowers, no one would have noticed or cared. But since they refused, every other flower shop in town refused fearing they would be branded “pro atheist.”

          Businesses choose their products. If a business offers a product for sale, they don’t get to tell some customers “we don’t serve your kind.”

          The BBQ place in South Carolina couldn’t claim religion to refuse to serve blacks. If a place sells wedding dresses, they sell dresses. They can’t refuse a customer because they don’t like the type of wedding the dress will be worn at.

          • james blue

            I’ve never claimed it would be pretty.

          • Larry Rudiger

            Great, have it your way. Oh, and if that’s your business model, then you’ll need to provide the roads to your shop, the electricity and water (off the grid sounds like fun) the sewage treatment, et al. Then, after a storm, don’t go crying to FEMA to clear your road of debris.

            This is why they are a public accommodation. Once you’re fully prepared to really open this fantasy business of yours on your fantasy island, then good luck getting customers.

            Have fun in 8th grade next year!

          • james blue

            Yeah…..Where have I argued about not paying taxes or not allowing all on infrastructure?

          • Larry Rudiger

            Most of us have read that overly-long pre-quel to “Fifty Shades of Gray,” aka “Atlas Shrugged.” Setting aside it’s clumsy S/M pron sections, it’s SOOOO great when you’re in 10th grade. Then, hopefully, you grow out of it.

          • james blue

            I’m sure in your head you think you have a point there.

    • SammySeattle

      That didn’t work out so well, so, no.

      • james blue

        When was that?

        • SammySeattle

          Any time previous to 1964.

          • james blue

            pre 1964 businesses were compelled to segregate.

          • SammySeattle

            Not all businesses in all states (Jim Crow Laws were mostly instituted and enforced in Southern states). The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was instrumental in curtailing both compelled and voluntary acts of segregation and discrimination.

          • james blue

            I know what the civil rights act was designed to do. I do not agree with all of it.

          • SammySeattle

            Which part, the “civil” or “rights”?

          • james blue

            Laws compelling segregation should not exist, every person should have equal rights to vote etc. There should be no discrimination from government.

            Government should not be forcing you to make accommodations for my faith and it should not be forcing anyone to violate their faith or personal moral code with their own legal business.

          • Larry Rudiger

            Then there’s that AWFUL Americans with Disabilities Act.

          • james blue

            And?

    • Mr. Chips

      Businesses operate under a whole host of laws and bylaws. We don’t get to pick and choose one ones we’ll obey and which we’ll ignore no matter how “deeply held” we consider our beliefs to be.

      • james blue

        I’m disagreeing that we should have those laws, not denying that we have them.

        • Larry Rudiger

          I hear Somolia’s really nice this time of year.

        • Mr. Chips

          Well until you and others who oppose the laws work to get rid of them, they exist and must be obeyed. My mother didn’t like wearing a seat belt but after being ticketed multiple times she eventually gave in.

          • james blue

            My comment history is open to full public view. Please feel free to find anywhere I’ve suggested not complying. That we have laws doesn’t mean we have to agree with them and not voice disagreement.

          • Mr. Chips

            Please show me where I suggested that people must agree with anti-discrimination laws or that they don’t have the right to voice disagreement.

          • james blue

            Well until you and others who oppose the laws work to get rid of them, they exist and must be obeyed. .

    • Mr. Chips

      After looking at this matter more closely I found out that anti-discrimination laws prohibiting businesses to refuse service to gay people don’t yet exist where this store is located. The owners have decided to close up shop in anticipation of the pending ordinance, which is their choice. The good news is that the majority of Christian business owners, of which there are millions in America, choose to serve and treat every customer the same.

      • james blue

        IMO laws prohibiting gays or non Christians from refusing service to us shouldn’t exist.

        If businesses want to lose customers because they want to discriminate let them lose customers. I’m sure you wouldn’t shop at an outlet that refused to serve gay people, but then isn’t that discrimination on your part too?

  • Michael C

    “We don’t sell dresses to gay people”

    This is unfortunately legal in most of the country. In most of the US, gay people are not protected from discrimination in employment, housing, and public accommodations. This means that it’s legal for businesses to fire people from their jobs just because they’re gay. This means that it’s legal for landlords to refuse to rent an apartment to a prospective tenant just because they’re gay. This means that it’s legal for stores and restaurants to refuse service to customers just because they’re gay.

    Christians are protected from discrimination in all of the US. Gay people are not.

    Harassment and threats are inexcusable and illegal. Refusing to sell a dress to a woman just because she’s gay is ridiculous and should be illegal just as it would be illegal for this business owner to refuse to sell a dress to a woman because she’s Jewish or Latin American.

  • Amos Moses – He>i

    choosing to be a lesbian …………. is ….. ” intentional infliction of emotional distress” ….. and they have done it to themselves ……

    • Mr. Chips

      Gay people don’t choose to be gay. What they choose is to live honest and open lives. The only ones who’ve “done it to themselves” are the shop owners. Instead of serving the couple and treating them with dignity and respect they chose to go out of business.

      • rvandegrift

        Homosexuality is a choice for if it were genetic, it would have been bred out of the gene pool with the first marriage. Unfortunately, with the world today choosing what is the truth, the science of biology can now be redetermined to be what one wants it to be even if it is an outright lie. Makes one wonder why we even fool with education if we can now make our own “truths”!

        • SammySeattle

          Until you’ve made that “choice” you can’t speak for gay people. And you have no understanding of genetics.

        • james blue

          I’m heterosexual. I didn’t choose to be heterosexual, I just am. I couldn’t choose to be homosexual and couldn’t be talked into being homosexual. I have zero sexual attraction to men.

          Did you choose to be heterosexual? Are you attracted to the same gender, but fight it off. Could you in a moment of human weakness fall of the path and engage in a homosexual relationship/tryst? I couldn’t, because I have no choice but to be heterosexual.

      • Amos Moses – He>i

        “Gay people don’t choose to be gay. What they choose is to live honest and open lives.”

        yes they surely do CHOOSE …….. and “honest and open lives” ….. is CONTRADICTORY to what they CHOOSE …………..

        • SammySeattle

          I did not choose to be gay any more than you chose to be heterosexual.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            YUP …. you surely did ….. you may not remember the exact moment ….. just as a murderer kills another and they may not recall the actual decision …… but YUP …. you surely did …..

          • SammySeattle

            I just love it when uneducated bigots try to tell me about my life and experiences.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            see …. right there …… you cannot refute it …. and so you fall back to epithet and name calling …… your “life experience” is failing to take RESPONSIBILITY for your actions and owning your choices as WRONG …………… but somehow to justify YOUR choices ….. i am a hateful bigot ….. as if that justifies what you are doing …… and all because i told you the truth ………….

          • SammySeattle

            I have refuted your inane assertion. You just choose not to see or listen because the answer doesn’t fit your bigoted agenda. I will repeat, I most certainly did not choose to be gay. I know my life and my experience. You have no knowledge of me, only a hateful judgement for people that you don’t know. That is the truth

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            again ….. name calling and epithet …… there is no refutation ……..

            your EXPERIENCE and your FEELINGS are not RELEVANT to the truth …………… and just as the murderer or thief can say the EXACT SAME STATEMENT you just made …. it does not make it the truth nor does it justify what you do …..

            I will repeat, I most certainly did not choose to be MURDERER. I know my life and my experience. You have no knowledge of me, only a hateful judgement for people that you don’t know.

            I will repeat, I most certainly did not choose to be THIEF. I know my life and my experience. You have no knowledge of me, only a hateful judgement for people that you don’t know.

            and all you have is that exact same LIE …………

          • SammySeattle

            Speaking of epithets, equating gay people with thieves and murderers?

            I speak truth, you speak hate and bigotry. You are blinded by your hatred of your fellow citizens. The truth of my life refutes your assertion again and again.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            NOPE …. nice try …. but YOU have a problem with murderers and thieves ………….. and YOUR BIGOTRY against them is YOUR JUDGMENTAL problem …… WHY are YOU such a BIGOT against murderers and thieves ….. WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE their experiences and lives ….. WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE …………….

          • SammySeattle

            Inanity.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            do not be so hard on yourself ………..

          • SammySeattle

            At this point you’re just trolling.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            FYI ….. YOU are the one who came here …… so who is trolling ….. YOU …… you have been here all of five (figurative) minutes and all you are here to do is spout your anti-christian BIGOTRY ……………

          • SammySeattle

            Diversity, inclusion and anti-discrimination are the opposite of bigotry.

          • You’re only a hateful bigot because you want to legislate control over our lives. Otherwise, you’d respectfully disagree without using disparaging and debasing language and inflection, and tend to your own sinful “choices”. Because given your demeanor, it’s obvious that you are not righteous.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            your life is legislatively controlled whether you like it or not ……. what you want is ANARCHY …… what you want is LAWLESSNESS ………….. and i have RESPECTFULLY disagreed …….. and told you the TRUTH ……. and your objection has NOTHING to do with RESPECT ….. but REBELLION to being told the truth that you REJECT …………. has not one thing to do with MY DEMEANOR ….. it has to do with YOUR rejection of the TRUTH …..

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “it’s obvious that you are not righteous.”

            means …… “you disagree with me so that makes you “unrighteous”” …… BULL ROAR ….. FYI ….. NO ONE IS RIGHTEOUS, NO, NOT EVEN ONE ………………………..

          • You have failed to follow the commenting guidelines: “Commenting Guidelines: We welcome readers to comment on stories, but we will not tolerate remarks containing profanity, vulgarity, violence, blasphemy, all caps or any discourteous behavior. Thank you for your cooperation in maintaining a respectful public environment where readers can engage in reasonable discussion about matters affecting our nation and our world.”

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            blah, blah, woof, woof …….

          • I always save my “Woof, woofs!” for hot guys. Kinda like guys save your “cat-calls” for hot women. Man, are you uptight.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            yeah ….. whatever ………..

          • JohnnyJay

            Obviously things are good for GLB Americans, under the Trump presidency. Don’t forget he’s the only President who ever went into office already in favor of same-sex marriage. Under Trump we busted the plan for the second Pulse type-massacre (the Muslim jihadist plot to bomb San Francisco gay bars in early 2017), and saw our first marriage at West Point Military Academy. So in spite of a certain sect of gays wanting to paint Trump as a villain (like silly Andrew Towle, Signorile, and Fat Joe Jervis), the independently-thinking gays know Trump has been excellent for our equality. (Certainly better than Hillary “Muslims are not our enemy!!” Clinton ever would have been).

          • By his own admission a person chooses their orientation so he’s gay choosing to be a hetero.

          • JohnnyJay

            And why does Towleroad and Fat Joe Jervis hide from the Muslim teacher arrested in the UK last week, who was teaching Muslim schoolchildren to attack gay bars and clubs ? Don’t Andrew Towle and Fat Joe find that important ?

      • Amos Moses – He>i

        “Instead of serving the couple and treating them with dignity and respect”

        1. not a “couple” …… 2. why would we treat those who tell lies with “dignity and respect” when they obviously have no “dignity and respect” to offer to the store owner and are lying to them ………….. homo-mirage is a lie ……….

        • SammySeattle

          1. A Couple
          2. Marriage is marriage

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope … and NOPE ……….

          • SammySeattle

            Keep paddling up that river in Egypt.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            again ….. epithet …… and no real refutation ……….

          • SammySeattle

            The refutation is in reality. They are a couple and are now married.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            homo-mirage ….. is just that …. a MIRAGE …… and a lie they and you want to believe …..

          • SammySeattle

            The lie is in denying reality. You tell yourself that reality is a lie so that you can justify your hatred and bigotry.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope …. a lie is DENYING THE TRUTH ……….. and homo-mirage is a lie …… it is a mirage ….. and your perception of reality is not relevant ………….

            3 Reasons Why People Want You To Hate THEM

            Some people WANT you to hate them.

            1. They want you to hate them because THEY get oppression points. Being the victim is an accomplishment for them. People want you to hate them because it gives THEM significance. Believing they are hated is a fundamental part of their identity.

            2. They want you to hate them because if you do not, they would feel obligated to consider what you have to say. The respectful thing to do with people you disagree with is to engage them through an exchange of ideas that involve mutual respect and a sincere attempt to understand the others perspective. But they do not want to have to explain why kids do not need to have a mother AND a father or why a white woman can identify as a man but not an african american. They want to be able to do whatever they want to do and never feel “judged” for doing it. By telling themselves you are hateful relieves them of the need to defend what they are doing and their ideas from critique.

            3. They want to believe you hate them because THEY HATE YOU. That is the great irony here. They hate you because you believe there are ways to show love other than through approval. And if you hate them back, in their minds that somehow validates THEIR hatred of YOU. That is the nature of bitterness. The sad fact is, once you choose to hate someone, EVERYTHING they say or do is offensive to you. Even kindnesses will be interpreted in a way that allows them to think of it as hate. It could be they accuse you of hating them because THEY WANT YOU TO HATE THEM.
            ~ Joseph Backholm

            Nothing i can do about that …..

          • SammySeattle

            Continue to deny reality. It’s what you do.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you came here to spout YOUR BIGOTRY …. we did not go looking for you ………….

          • Tim Matter

            If they are married in the eyes of the government, that’s really all that counts the most. Who do you think has the final say on what legal rights people have? Who gets to claim who on taxes? Who gets to make the medical decisions in case of an accident? Who is next of kin? Who is the beneficiary in case somebody dies.
            Your church doesn’t have to recognize their marriage. Some churches still don’t agree with inter-racial marriages, and the government doesn’t interfere with that.

          • SammySeattle

            Exactly. My father’s church did not recognize my parents’ marriage. They were still married in the eyes of the Catholic church and the government.

          • Mr. Chips

            You god is a mirage. It can’t be seen. Same-sex couples can be seen. They exist. Your god does not.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            is that a scientific or theological statement ………….

          • Mr. Chips

            Is there scientific proof that your god exists?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “You god is a mirage. It can’t be seen.”

            i am asking you about YOUR statement ………….. you said He can not be seen …. that He is a mirage …… now that can be either a theological statement about Him OR it can be a scientific statement about Him …. YOU made the statement …. i am asking you to clarify your position ………… can you do that …………..

          • Mr. Chips

            You seem confused. I said “it” can’t be seen, referring to your god. I didn’t assign a gender specific pronoun to it, nor did I call it a mirage. A mirage is an optical illusion caused by atmospheric conditions. A mirage can be seen. Gods cannot be seen as they don’t exist.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “Gods cannot be seen as they don’t exist.”

            Again …… is that a SCIENTIFIC or a THEOLOGICAL statement ……………. or are you too cowardly to answer …………

          • Mr. Chips

            It’s neither. It’s a logical, observational statement. Unicorns don’t exist, so they can’t be seen. Gods don’t exist, therefore they can’t be seen. Hope that helps!

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Nope …. you made a POSITIVE ASSERTION of FACT ……. so either YOU are being illogical …… or you are a coward …………… we are not talking about unicorns or any other thing ….. we are talking about YOUR POSITIVE ASSERTION of FACT ………. SO ….. is that a SCIENTIFIC or a THEOLOGICAL statement …………….

          • Mr. Chips

            It’s neither. We can’t see things that don’t exist. Gods don’t exist, therefore they can’t be seen. I support your right to believe in imaginary beings. 😉

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            so gravity does not exist ….. no one has ever proven that gravity has a positive existence …… not talking about the secondary effects of falling ….. as a SUBSTANCE as in a PARTICLE or a WAVE or any other thing …… it has never been proven to exist …………..

            so according to you it is “imaginary” because you cannot see it ……….. do i understand your position clearly ……..

          • Mr. Chips

            We see the existence of gravity every day. Throw a ball into the air, watch it fall to the ground, that’s gravity. If you think you hear something that you call ‘god’ talking to you, it’s time to get help. 😉

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            sure …. we see the SECONDARY EFFECTS …… but that is not PHYSICAL EXISTENCE and we cannot see it …………………..so could you please tell me when you have a cup of gravity …… as i am getting kind of low …….

          • Mr. Chips

            Sure thing. Let me know when you take a selfie with your god. I’d love to see it! ?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            so you cannot prove gravity exists ….. yet you believe it exists …… you will never see it ….. but somehow God has not shown himself in the same manner ……….. i see ……….

          • Mr. Chips

            Like the refutation you gave above: “nope … and NOPE ……….”?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            homo-mirage is not a marriage ….. it is a MIRAGE ……..

        • Mr. Chips

          Two people who commit to one another in a relationship are “a couple.” Sticking your fingers in your ears and denying the truth won’t change that reality.

          The lesbian couple weren’t disrespectful to the shop owner because: a) they were the victims of discrimination and, b) they wrote about their experience on social media.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “Sticking your fingers in your ears and denying the truth won’t change that reality.”

            believing LIES does not alter REALITY ……..

            “The lesbian couple weren’t disrespectful to the shop owner because”

            as they wanted the owner to believe their LIE ….. YUP …. they surely were ………..

          • Mr. Chips

            So by your logic, you’re being disrespectful when you want people to believe YOUR LIE, that your god exists. Thanks for sharing.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Again …… is that a SCIENTIFIC or a THEOLOGICAL statement ……………. or are you too cowardly to answer …………

          • Mr. Chips

            It’s neither. I’m paraphrasing your comment. You said the lesbian couple was being disrespectful to the shop owners because because they wanted them to believe their ‘lie’.

            So by your logic, YOU’RE being disrespectful when YOU want people to believe YOUR LIE that your god exists.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            NOPE ……….. you are a coward as you refuse to back up your POSITIVE claim of NON-EXISTENCE ………

          • Mr. Chips

            I’m sorry (not really) that you find my answers unsatisfactory. That’s your problem, not mine.

  • Facia Ofwho

    Ok, let me get this straight…YouTube can shut anybody down because they are a private business that has a right to refuse service to those with whom they disagree, but Christians must bake cakes and sell wedding gowns to perverts with whom THEY disagree? Hypocrisy Alert ?

    • james blue

      Do you think Youtube shouldn’t be allowed to shut down anybody?

      • Reason2012

        Do you think Youtube shouldn’t be allowed to shut down anybody?

        Precisely. Businesses have the right to shut others down from using their product to promote acts or ideas they disagree with. Exactly the point.

        • james blue

          Why should religious belief get special protection?

          • Reason2012

            Ask yourself why we have a Constitution, why people created America to protect religious beliefs, why that’s the very first Amendment, and that should answer your question.

          • james blue

            The 1st amendment only protects us from government, not the private sector. There is no first amendment right to have others accommodate our faith. We have big government anti discrimination and public accommodation laws to protect our faith in the private sector…It’s the same law that protects the gays wanting to buy dresses.

            Now I think this business owner should be able to run her business according to her faith, but it’s not a one way street. we shouldn’t expect to be able to discriminate and be protected from discrimination.

          • Larry Rudiger

            Reason, the Establishment Clause just left a message. Can you call them back?

          • SammySeattle

            They shouldn’t. Each citizen maintains their own private religious belief. When a business owner enters into the public sphere they will run into conflicting beliefs. It’s none of their business what beliefs a potential client holds, when you are open to the public you are open to all.

          • james blue

            I agree with nearly all of that, but the last dozen words I would change to “when you are open for business you should be able to do or refuse to do legal business with whomever you wish for whatever reason you wish”

          • Tangent002 ✓

            So you favor the repeal of Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act?

          • james blue

            Is there anything about my stance and explanation for it that is confusing?

          • Tangent002 ✓

            I just wanted to be clear.

          • james blue

            Just like free speech —- I’m not defending what someone says, I’m defending their right to say it.

            I do not agree with this dress store refusing to sell the dress and would not be bothered by them having to shut down if business fell off because of their choice. What I’m supporting is the right to make that choice.

          • StudioTodd

            The owners should open and operate a religious venue that is not subject to nondiscrimination laws then, not a business that claims to be open to the public, yet refuses to accommodate everyone equally.

          • james blue

            Why? Because you think they should?

          • StudioTodd

            Because the law.

          • james blue

            Obviously I disagree with that law

          • StudioTodd

            Doesn’t matter if you agree…you still must comply.

          • james blue

            Where did I say you don’t have to comply? My whole discussion has been that the laws shouldn’t be in place and people should have the right.

            That’s why I used the word “should” and not “do”

          • SammySeattle

            So, you’re pro-discrimination. That system doesn’t work in civilized society.

          • james blue

            Please take that tosh elsewhere.

            I do not approve of a business that does discriminate. Just like free speech —- I’m not defending what someone says, I’m defending their right to say it.

            I do not agree with this dress store refusing to sell the dress and would not be bothered by them having to shut down if business fell off because of their choice. What I’m supporting is the right to make that choice.

          • SammySeattle

            And that is exactly what causes a culture of hate, bigotry and discrimination. Thankfully the majority of Americans recognize where that philosophy leads.

          • james blue

            Really? Because all I’m arguing against is tactics. The culture of hate , bigotry and discrimination are going to be there regardless of if one can legally act on it. In fact laws requiring the store owners to be discriminated against by denying them the right to live by their faith or beliefs stoke a culture of hate and bigotry.

            If you are employed, you should do the business of your employer or seek alternative employment. It is up to us to work around life in order to live by our faith, not demand others make accommodations for us. But if you make it so that person cannot operate their own business by their faith or whatever beliefs then you make it impossible to live by their faith.

          • Rich

            If I can paraphrase: “I agree with nearly all of that EXCEPT the actual point where I agree with its exact opposite.”

    • Michael C

      It’s a bit of an apples to oranges comparison.

      Is there a non-discrimination law that you feel youtube has broken? If there is such a law, please cite it. If there’s no such a law, how would you propose it be written?

      As for businesses who sell cakes and dresses to the general public, they must follow the same laws that apply to other businesses that sell products to the general public. Throughout the nation, there are laws that prohibit stores and restaurants from discriminating against people on the basis of a few clearly defined characteristics. For example, a stationary store cannot refuse to sell a pen to a customer on the basis of their religion. A tire shop cannot refuse to patch a tire for a customer on the basis of their national origin. In some states (a minority), citizens are protected from discrimination on the basis of their sexual orientation. In these states, a stationary store or a tire shop or a dress store cannot refuse service to a customer because they’re gay.

      Do you disagree with this? Do you believe that businesses should be permitted to deny gay people employment, housing, and public accommodations even though this type of discrimination would be illegal if perpetrated against Christians (or black people, or Jewish people, or women, etc.)?

      • Reason2012

        The wedding business does not allow their business to be used to support anti-Christian acts/ideas. You claim they do not have that right and must allow their business to support acts the owners are against. Youtube refuses to let people use their service to promote acts/ideas they do not agree with, that has nothing to do with their personal religious beliefs on top of that.

        So Youtube is “selling products to the general public”, specifically the product of a public platform to make videos others can see, hence according to you must “follow the same laws that apply to OTHER businesses that sell products to the general public”. So please feel free to prove there’s a difference instead of just claiming there is and not being able to back it up.

        • Michael C

          Dress stores do not sell support for acts or ideas, they sell dresses. Nobody pays a dress store for their approval, customers pay dress stores for dresses.

          Being that you’re incapable of citing a law that youtube has broken, how would you propose writing a law to prevent them from moderating the content on their website?

          Would this law that you’re proposing also prohibit this website from moderating its comment section?

          • Reason2012

            If they are asked to sell a wedding dress for an anti-Christ event, they’re being asked to support an anti-Christian act with their business – to violate their religious beliefs with their business. If they go in and ask a black woman to make them dresses for an “the beliefs of black people do not matter” party, the black woman can likewise deny that attempt to get her to support anti-black acts with her business. I hope you’re not racist and would likewise support her right to deny this racist, bigoted request. Yet you seem to be an anti-Christian bigot and love it when Christians are asked to support anti-Christian acts with their business. Unfortunately for you, the Constitution of the United States of America protects not just our rights due to our race, but our right to not be forced to violate our religious beliefs.

            Youtube is braking the very law you claim this business is breaking. Youtube is, as you say, “selling products to the general public”, specifically the product of a public platform to make videos others can see, a platform that others can make money off of, and hence, according to you must “follow the same laws that apply to OTHER businesses that sell products to the general public” Yet they discriminate against others, not even because of youtube’s religious beliefs, but just because they hate what you say – because they hate the customers’ beliefs and will refuse to allow them to express them.

            So what law is it that other business that “sell products to the general public” must follow that Christian business owners are violating? Please cite it. That’s would be the law youtube is breaking and then some, since their reasoning is not “they’re getting us to violate our religious beliefs” but instead “we hate your beliefs”.

            Are comment sections on websites money-making products that they make money off each user comment, that users pay them money for posting said comments, even if it’s in the form of website hits? No.

            Are youtube channels where people can generate millions of hits something they have to give money to youtube for, via their hits, advertising and more, where youtube makes money off of them, you bet. Dishonest comparison to say the least.

            So thank you for showing you support youtube who is “selling products to the general public” that they don’t have to “follow the same laws that apply to OTHER businesses that sell products to the general public”, which exposes your dishonesty.

          • Michael C

            So what law is it that other business that “sell products to the general public” must follow that Christian business owners are violating? Please cite it.

            This dress store broke no law because Pennsylvania allows stores and restaurants to refuse service to gay people.

            Sweet Cakes violated ORS 659A.403
            Arlene’s Flowers violated RCW 49.60.030
            Elane Photography violated NM Stat. Ann. § 28-1-7
            The Gortz Haus Gallery violated IA Code § 216.7

            Youtube is braking the very law you claim this business is breaking.

            Which of these laws has youtube violated and how?

          • Reason2012

            This dress store broke no law because Pennsylvania allows stores and restaurants to refuse service to gay people.

            They didn’t refuse to serve them at all becasue they were into homosexuality – they refused the request to have them violate their relgious beliefs, which they have the right to refuse no matter the sexual preferences of the one making the request.

            Which of these laws has youtube violated and how?

            The same law you claim others violate when they refuse to bake a cake for a same-gender wedding. Why is it you think they violate that law and how?

          • Michael C

            I’m sorry. I’m not trying to be rude but you haven’t yet answered my question. I’ll repeat it for you.

            What law has youtube broken? Please cite the specific law.

            No offence but I asked you first. After you answer this simple question, we can move on to your questions.

          • Reason2012

            You have yet to answer this question when you’ve been asked by many people for years: The answer to your question is the same answer to this question that you never answer when asked: What law is being broken by a Christian who refuses a request to violate their religious beliefs by supporting an anti-Christian act even though they have no problem serving those into homosexuality? Please cite the specific law and how it is you think they’ve broken it.

            Thank you for proving yet again you can’t show that a law is broken by Christians when they’re simply refusing to support an anti-Christian act, as you always run from this question for years now.

            And knowing this, you continue to make the false claim they violate a law by trying to dishonestly claim Christians refuse any service to people because they’re into homosexuality when you’ve been shown that’s not the case: they’re refusing to promote anti-Christian acts, refusing to violate their own religious beliefs, regardless who asks.

            Yet here you are defending youtube, who is “selling products to the general public” discriminating against others not because they were asking youtube to support an act that violates their religious beliefs, but simply because youtube hates the customers own beliefs: so they delete their channel and refuse to “follow the same laws that apply to OTHER businesses that sell products to the general public”

            So your dishonesty of making those claims when youtube violates those exact claims and you defend youtube doing just that, while you falsely claim Christians will not serve those into homosexuality when the truth is they have no problem serving them, they just draw the line and being asked to support anti-Christian acts.

            If you refuse yet again to answer the question to show which law these Christians are supposedly violating and how that law is violated, then my work here is done: showing others who read these comments how dishonest LGBT activists are, and how they have a double standard and are only seeking to criminalize, marginalize and eradicate Christianity in as many ways as they can.

            If you want to answer, I’ll respond. Would be a first in years that you address this when anyone asks you.

            PS Islam, where every country that is run by islam slaughters LGBT daily, where 50 LGBT were slaughtered in Florida, continues to teach kids in more public schools all about islam while censoring Christianity. (simple search on public school islam read all about it) Yet “lgbt” activists like you do not seem to care, which shows you really are not lgbt but are islam activists using lgbt to eradicate Christianity one piece at a time. Let me know when you start speaking out about islam being taught in public schools, as that should have you greatly concerned, yet clearly you support it as you always defend them doing it when it’s brought up. You’re more concerned with one religion because they will not bake a cake or make a wedding dress, but have no problem with another religion that leads to LGBT being slaughtered daily, that religion being taught in more public schools.

            Others are waking up to what’s really going on with these lgbt activists.

          • Michael C

            What law is being broken by a Christian…? …Please cite the specific law

            Sweet Cakes violated ORS 659A.403
            Arlene’s Flowers violated RCW 49.60.030
            Elane Photography violated NM Stat. Ann. § 28-1-7
            The Gortz Haus Gallery violated IA Code § 216.7

            …and how it is you think they’ve broken it.

            see; Klein v. BOLI
            see; Washington v. Arlene’s Flowers, Inc.
            see; Elane Photography v. Willock
            see; Odgaard v. ICRC

            Everything is explained in these court cases.

            Now back to my question.
            What law has youtube broken? Please cite the specific law.

          • Reason2012

            Still waiting for you to show HOW they violated the law, not how they were wrongfully accused for doing so when they have no problem serving those into homosexuality, while they lied like you do and claim they refuse to serve them at all.

            And if they did violate those specific laws (under the lie that they refuse to serve them at all), then youtube also does far worse, violating those same laws as they refuse to serve people at all, but not because their Constitutionally protected religious beliefs were being violated by being ask to support an act that goes against their religious beliefs, but because youtube hates the viewpoint said person is making videos about, which again proves how the left are fascists seeking to violate everyone else’s religious beliefs under the lie of “you refuse to serve some people at all”, while supporting youtube who “refuses to serve some people at all”.

          • Michael C

            Still waiting for you to show HOW they violated the law

            Did you read the laws I cited? Did you read the court decisions related to the cases I cited? It’s all in there.

            Trying to explain things to you is a waste of time. I know you need the last word so go ahead and take it.

          • Larry Rudiger

            Now then. Let’s break this down.
            THE SCENE: A woman, with her (usually) all-female entourage when shopping for a bridal dress.

            Bride to be (BTB): Hello, I’m interested in finding the perfect wedding dress. I’m so excited.

            Bridal Shop Owner (BSO): Maybe. First, though, answer me this: what is the gender of your future spouse?

            BTB: I’m sorry, excuse me?

            BSO: Even though the dress is for you, and your spouse to be probably won’t see it before the big day, if that person’s gender does not meet my expectations, then I can’t sell you a dress.

            BTB: I’m sorry, excuse me?

            BSO: See, if your future spouse is another woman, then I’m going to assume that you’re lesbians–and probably having hot girl-on-girl action, just like in those movies about women’s’ prisons.

            BTB: I’m sorry, so then the problem is that I might have sex with another person of the wrong gender?

            BSO: Precisely. My Christian faith depends on granting you the right to pleasure under circumstances that I either approve or not. I’m sorry. You know, Jesus.

            BTB: But what if I’m a lesbian (which is none of your business–literally–but go with me on this) and my spouse to be is a gay man. So we’ve got the right private parts, but we’re not going to use them. But we’re both still gay.

            BSO: I can’t do anything about that, just like I can’t do anything about the fact that some other brides to be are making their ninth trip down the aisle. Or they’re some low-rent version of Anna Nicole Smith (which itself is a feat). You see, ultimately, it is parts, not hearts.

            BTB: So the whole Jesusy thing about divorce, do you enquire about other brides to be and their marriage/divorce history.

            BSO: Of course. That’s none of my business.

          • SammySeattle

            So, it’s fine to sell them a dress if they’re being married in the Episcopal church down the street from me? it’s certainly a Christian church and the marriages performed there are blessed by Christ.

          • Reason2012

            Only marriage between a man and a woman is blessed by Christ. False churches that pervert God’s truth does not mean everyone else has to pervert God’s truth and violate their religious beliefs.

            Since you false claim Christ “blesses” such a thing:

            Adults continue to permanently turn away from homosexuality, even after decades of believing the lie they were “born that way”, proving it’s not genetic, but the product of indoctrination, confusion, mental instability and/or abuse.

            Homosexual behavior is most literally pointed out as a sin, and God has not changed on that regard. But if a person has those inclinations but does not act upon them, does not dwell in lust upon others, but is instead struggling against them to avoid them, then it’s not a sin. It’s just like sinful inclinations of any kind: it’s acting upon it when it becomes a sin.

            And this is what God says about sin and specifically the behavior of homosexuality:

            Romans 1:26-27 ”For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: (27) And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their_lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”

            1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ”Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [men who willingly take on the part of a “woman” with another man], nor abusers of themselves with mankind [s odomites], (10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”

            1 Timothy 1:9-10 ”Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, (10) For_whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind [s odomites], for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”

            Jude 1:7 ”Even as_Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”

            Luke 17:29 ”[Jesus said] But the same day that Lot went out of_Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.”

            Matthew 19:4-6 ”And he [Jesus] answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, (5) And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? (6) Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.”

            Jesus made it quite clear God made us male and female so that a man will leave his father and mother (not two fathers, not three mothers and so on) and cleave onto his wife (not his husband and so on).

            The Word of God rebukes us all – even if we all try to say we don’t believe the Bible, the very Word of God will be our judge when we face Him. And God is a righteous judge and will judge us all – not turn a blind eye to our sin. Do not be deceived by the world: it’s God we will have to convince that His word was a lie, not men. What happened in Noah’s day when the entire world rejected God? Did God spare them because there were so many? No – they all perished except for Noah and his family!

            Proverbs 9:10 ”The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.”

            God spared not His chosen people – we are kidding ourselves if we think He will spare the United States of America if we choose to blatantly turn away from Him.

            Jeremiah 12:17 ”But if they will not obey, I will utterly pluck up and destroy that nation, saith the LORD.”

            Luke 17:28-30 “So also as it was in the days of Lot: they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; (29) but the day Lot went out of Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from the heaven and destroyed them all. (30) Even so it shall be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.”

            Romans 1:18-32 “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [suppress] the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

            For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

            Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

            For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

            And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, m urder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”

            The entire Bible points out men having_sex with men is an abomination. Likewise woman having_sex with women. It’s not just Paul that pointed it out.

            Genesis 19:4-13 “But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of S odom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them [men wanting to have_sex with men].

            And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing [he offers his daughters to be_raped to keep them from having_sex with another man – shows_rape is not the issue but male on male_sex]; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

            And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.

            And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place: For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.”

            These two messengers were sent to destroy that place before the event where they tried to_rape these messengers.

            Leviticus 18:22 “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”

            Leviticus 20:13 “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination …”

            Even cross-dressing is an abomination:

            Deuteronomy 22:5 “The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.”

            Deuteronomy 23:17 “There shall be no_whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a s odomite of the sons of Israel.”

            1 Kings 22:46 “And the remnant of the s odomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.”

            1 Kings 15:11-12 “And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, as did David his father. And he took away the s odomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.”

            2 Kings 23:7 “And he brake down the houses of the s odomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.”

            Ezekiel 16:49-50 “Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister S odom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.”

            And the “pride” parades about homosexuality are more of the same.

            Even Jesus points out marriage is a man and a woman.

            Matthew 19:4-5 “And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?”

            Not father and father. Not mother and mother. Not his husband.

            And only two people of opposite gender can become “one flesh”.

            Live forever, people – not temporarily only to be cast out for living for the things of this world.

            May God/Jesus Christ be glorified!

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            Amen.

          • StudioTodd

            We’ve all read (not heard–read) what the lead character in that book of fictional stories you’re so fond of thinks about gay people and marriage. We’ve also read AND heard what the government, courts and citizens think about gay people and marriage.

            The battle has already been waged and guess what? The fictional character from the book lost. Time for you to accept the loss, grow up and move on.

          • Reason2012

            Did God lose when everyone in the world except for 8 people rejected Him? No, everyone else lost.

            Does God lose when judgment is coming for each of us, hell for all of us that refuse His offer of forgiveness, His command to have a change of mind about sin, regardless of which sins it is we refuse to turn away from, refusing His forgiveness because we love our sin more?

            No, we’ve lost if we refuse His offer of forgiveness, we just kid ourselves otherwise. Please think again – many who used to be caught up in different types of sins, all because they felt like they have no control over their lusts (a.k.a., born that way), found grace in God’s forgiveness, power to overcome this fallen world.

            Unfortunately the world is full of false religions which have deceived others of God’s truth, much like the Pharisees did. It’s really about a personal relationship with God, not about a bunch of rules and a denomination to give money to.

            As Jesus pointed out:

            “Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.”
            Luke 18:10-14

            I pray you will be likewise, as all of us were fallen before we found God’s grace.

          • StudioTodd

            Obviously, you require a paternal figurehead to dictate your life and tell you who to oppress and who you can give “mulligans” to–no matter how unsubstantial or contradictory the evidence of the actual existence of that figurehead might be

            Some of us don’t need a book of hateful old stories to tell us what is fair and what is moral. Some of us don’t require the threat of everlasting torture after death in order to not harm other people. Some of us help their neighbors because we care about them, not because we want to score points with or to avoid punishment from an invisible autocrat.

            I do not live my life or decide my prejudices based on stories in an
            anthology of folk tales, fables and ghost stories. Thankfully, neither
            do the courts in this country. Unfortunately for you, it means your deeply held beliefs (delusions, whatever) do not outweigh the civil rights of others.

    • Tangent002 ✓

      The YouTube platform is a membership service. You agree to the Terms of Use before you are allowed to post content.

      And no, YouTube cannot shut anyone down, only those who have violated the ToU. You may feel that is a subjective determination, but keep in mind YouTube has content available to the general public and views are what generate ad revenue. YouTube will tend to err on the side of protecting viewers rather than protecting content providers.

    • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

      They feel it’s ok for them. But not ok for Christians.

  • Cady555

    When discrimination was about cakes, the claim was “This is not about discrimination, it is all about the baker’s artistic expression.”

    Now it has morphed into “This is not about discrimination, it is all about the store owner’s need to control what is done with the product she sells.”

    No. This is discrimination. Plain, old fashioned, garden variety discrimination. No business owner should get to decide how their products are used after sale.

    Or do you think a business owner should be able refuse to sell craft supplies because those supplies will be used in vacation bible school to teach religion to children?

    • Bob Johnson

      Next thing you know, pie shops won’t sell to clowns.

  • Reason2012

    Youtube will do something even worse than what LGBT activists pretend this business is doing: refuse to allow you to use their product. But youtube’s religious beliefs are not being violated – they just hate what you have to say and will refuse to serve you. By huge contrast, Christians are being asked to support / promote anti-Christ acts – being forced to violate their religious beliefs, which in America is against the law. Huge difference. Youtube is in far greater violation, refusing to serve you not for religious reasons, but just for hating what you say, yet these same LGBT activists do not mind in the least.

    It exposes the blatant, illegal anti-Christian bigotry of the left trying to pretend it’s illegal for Christian businesses who “sell products to the general public must follow the same laws that apply to OTHER businesses that sell products to the general public”, while youtube sells its product of a platform to publish videos to the general public but suddenly when it comes to not liking what others say they do NOT have to “follow the same laws that apply to OTHER businesses that sell products to the general public”.

    Continue to spread the word as these activists support youtube refusing to do business with those whom they don’t like the acts/ideas they are using their business for, while demanding Christians must allow others to use their business to promote anti-Christian acts / anti-Christian ideas – to violate their religious beliefs. The difference seems to be if you’re violating their Christian religious beliefs, then you can force the business to do so.

    The deceivers claim it’s not the same, but cannot in the least show how it’s not the same.

    • Tangent002 ✓

      I don’t think you know much about YouTube’s business model. YouTube derives revenue from ads placed on channels, not from viewers or content providers.

      Also, YouTube is a membership service, meaning you must agree to the Terms of Use before posting any content.

      • Reason2012

        They get viewers from the ones who use their product – they’re making money of the youtube channel creators. Without them there’s nothing to view.

        Nothing in their terms of service says they can refuse to allow you to use their product if they hate your viewpoint, which is what they do in practice, and is illegal. It’s not like they’re being asked to violate their religious views – they just refuse service if they hate your view and pretend it was some sort of “violation” when time and again it’s shown it’s not. That they try to show it’s a violation when it’s not shows they know they’re violating the very laws LGBT activists pretend Christians violate – but they have no problem with youtube doing the very thing these activists pretend to be against.

        • Tangent002 ✓

          There are plenty of viewpoints available on YouTube spanning a vast array of ideologies. Do you have a specific example of a channel you feel was treated unfairly due to demonstrable ideological bias by YouTube?

  • Theo

    If you are marrying a woman, the usual attire is a tux, or at least a suit.

    • SammySeattle

      Or any other attire you might choose.

  • disqus_D9pH1OIG67

    Let them walk with christ and find a new business where their bigotry is kept out of public commerce. Maybe shoveling elephant poo at the zoo.

    • manwithnoname

      You would have done well……in 1930’s Nazi Germany!

      • SammySeattle

        ??

  • disqus_D9pH1OIG67

    You’re nuts. Go see a mental health expert.

  • Rebecca Gardner

    I have an irrational hate of my fellow human beings so much that I’d rather go out of business than treat my fellow humans with love and respect just like Jesus mandates!

    What warps a mind so much as to hate their fellow humans, family, neighbors, and friends?
    Sad and disgusting.

    • Reason0verhate

      Gee, you’re so smart!

  • Mr. Chips

    The good news is that the majority of Christian business owners in America serve every customer that comes through their doors with dignity and respect. We need to stop judging and be more loving. God is the judge, not us.

    • Reason0verhate

      right

      • Mr. Chips

        RIGHT!

  • Phil2u

    They’re playing the pizza parlor gambit. They can make more money through a poor, pitiful Xian martyr money beg, then grab the dough and run. No one is fooled by their religiosity.

  • Mr. Chips

    If businesses sued customers for trying to purchase a product for sale in their shops, all businesses would have to shutter their doors. Christians business owners have to obey the law, no matter how deeply held we consider our beliefs to be.

  • emme

    Does/did W.W. Bridal Boutique have any moral issues with selling bridalwear to non-virgins or women who’ve committed adultery or women who plan interfaith marriages or women entering second or third or fourth marriages? What if the attendants are fornicators? What if the bridal party includes atheists? Open marriage? Wiccans?

  • Theo

    Targeting Christian businesses is a hate crime. Why aren’t these rogues prosecuted? Trying to take away someone’s livelihood should be a felony.

    • Gigi

      If you think that gays attempting to purchase goods sold by businesses owned by self-identified Christians is a “hate crime,” you need to look up the definition of a hate crime. (Hint: This isn’t it.)

  • rvandegrift

    The LGBT and others who practice Political Correctness are no longer hiding their true intent which is if you don’t agree with us, either go away or be silent. It is so sad to see another business capitulate to this high-handedness of those who are intolerant, bigots, hate-mongerers and just so vile as to defy the definition of being human!

    • Gigi

      Tolerate our intolerance or we’ll call YOU intolerant, vile, hate-mongering bigots! — rvandegrift & friends

  • Nelson Kerr

    If you can not run a business without violating the law get out of that business, as they are doing.

  • James C. Robinson (III)

    Hi, Heather Clark! I’m sorry that Pennsylvania’s Bridal Shop & its owner, Victoria Miller was threatened for declining to assist with lesbian “wedding” & had to close its doors!

  • RGBA

    They made a choice to shut down their business because they refuse to follow non-discrimination laws. I don’t see the problem.

    • Jana

      It is discrimination not to allow Christians to live out what they believe.

      • RGBA

        No one is stopping them from “living out what they believe”. But if they break the law in the process then that is their choice. Too bad.

        • Jana

          Just because something is law doesn’t make it right. You are discriminating by forcing someone to close shop because they stand for their convictions and in this way you are trying to force them to stop “living out what they believe”. You don’t want us to force heterosexuality down your throat, neither do we want homosexuality forced down our throats.

          • RGBA

            Who “forced” these people to close their shop? Follow the law or don’t. It is the business owners choice. They chose to not follow the law. It’s that simple.

          • Jana

            They knew that the anti-discrimination law would be implemented and that they will eventually be forced to provide wedding dresses to same sex couples or close down anyway. This is how they were forced. Ironic that they did provide formal wear to homosexual couples without a problem. They just didn’t want to provide them with wedding dresses because that would indirectly be supporting something they believe to be wrong according to a Higher Authority than them. As I said, just because something is law, doesn’t make it right. You have the law behind you but you are still wrong according to our faith. But having said that, I do believe as well that your right to choose how you want to live should be respected since we all have free will, but so should our right to freely make choices in line with our conscience.

          • RGBA

            People are already free to “make choices in line with their conscience”, as long as they aren’t breaking the law. If your faith prohibits you from running a business that fully follows the law then you shouldn’t be in business. Do something else or change the law.

          • Jana

            By Christians having to close shop because they are breaking a so called antidiscrimination law you are breaking the law that guarantees freedom of religion. You keep on reveling in the fact that the law is behind you. Again, just because something is law doesn’t make it right. I would much rather break manmade laws when it goes against God’s Word, than doing or approving of something I know to go against God’s will. You may have the law behind you. Christians have God behind them. I choose Him anyday.

          • RGBA

            Good for you. Let me know how that works out for you next time some business discriminates against you in the name of their religion. For now, man made laws supersede religious laws in business.

          • Jana

            If they discriminate against me because according to their religion they can’t serve me I’d RESPECT that and go to a place willing to serve me. It might be hurtful and inconvenient to me, but I would not want them to pack up a business that they worked hard for!

          • RGBA

            If your religion requires you to be “hurtful” to Gods people then perhaps you have twisted Gods true message.

          • Jana

            Can you clarify for me what you see as “hurtful”?

          • RGBA

            People like you wouldn’t get it.

          • Jana

            How do you know? Do you know me personally? Try me.

          • Michael C

            I have two questions for you;

            1) Do you believe that gay citizens should be protected from discrimination in employment, housing, and public accommodations in the same way that Christians (for example) are protected?

            2) Do you believe that an exemption should be written into these non-discrimination laws that would allow businesses like this dress store to refuse service in certain instances? If so, how would you word this exemption?

          • Mr. Chips

            They weren’t forced to close their shop, they chose to. Anti-discrimination laws that protect gays don’t even exist where their shop is located. They chose to close ahead of the law being implemented.

            “I am sure those women had other shops that they could go to but I get the idea that Christian businesses are targeted on purpose.” They went to this specific shop because it’s close to where they live. After they were refused service they did go to another shop and were able to purchases dresses without issue. Do you know for a fact that they ‘targeted’ this shop, or is it just a feeling you have?

            “If you claim the right to live life the way you want to that right should be ours too.” The lesbian couple that was turned away isn’t trying to take away their right to live the way they want. They tried to purchase dresses and were turned away. They wrote about their ordeal on social media. Not once did they suggest that the Christian business owners didn’t have the right to live the way they want.

          • Jana

            They closed shop (or are going to) because they knew that the law will be implemented. And if it is implemented, they will be forced to sell clothes to same sex couples, or close down. I would have waited if I were in their shoes but since other Christian businesses had to close down because of this same situation I think they were discouraged and just decided to close. I am saying that I think Christian businesses are targeted based on a feeling not objective facts which is why I said “I get the idea”. I have read, again and again, of Christian businesses closing down because they refused services to homosexual couples. That is why I feel this way. That lesbian couple knew very well that if they took to social media, it will create a storm. If they didn’t want to create trouble for this business, they would simply have gone to another shop. That is what most people do when they are not satisfied with the first place they went to without trumpeting it out on social media. By the way, this business stated that they provided formal wear for a lot of homosexual people in the past, without problem. They had nothing personal against this lesbian couple, except that it was wedding dresses they were looking for, not formal wear and that is where the problem lies.

          • Mr. Chips

            Christian businesses that have chosen to close rather than serve same-sex couples are minuscule compared to the total number of Christian businesses that exist in America. The good news is that the majority of Christian business owners serve every customer with the same dignity and respect. They understand that God is the ultimate judge, not them.

            Your claim that the lesbian couple “knew very well” that their FB post would “create a storm” should have been prefaced with “I get the idea…” as it’s not based in fact. People write things on social media all the time and very few posts go viral. Another claim not based in fact: ” If they didn’t want to create trouble for this business, they would simply have gone to another shop.” The same goes for the shop owners. If they didn’t want to create trouble for their business, they would simply have served the couple. This business stated that they provided formal wear for a lot of homosexual people in the past, without issue. If they are “bible believing Christians” and they believe what the good book says about homosexuality then they shouldn’t have served any homosexuals. To serve some but not others makes them look foolish.

          • Jana

            You clearly don’t understand the issue here. I did explain the difference between providing formal wear and wedding clothes. I feel like you are asking me to repeat myself, just in different ways or maybe you thought of replying before properly reading my response. As far as them not wanting trouble for their business is concerned we should rather fear God, the ultimateJudge as you said, than humans. By assisting in a wedding ceremony in any way that is for homosexuals I am showing support for what they are doing. God warned us not to call evil good and good evil. Also, maybe the majority of Christian business owners who serves gays with dignity and respect do that because it would not violate their conscience as it doesn’t involve them in a homosexual wedding! If I had a restaurant, and homosexual couples came there for dinner, I would gladly serve them too.

      • Mr. Chips

        Prov 23:13-14: “Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.”

        If a Christian father wanted to beat his child and used scripture to support his belief, is it discrimination to tell him that he doesn’t have the right live out what he believes?

        • Jana

          These two issues are in different categories. God clearly stated that homosexuality is a sin. The issue of disciplining your child falls in a category where some people misuse Scripture in a way that God did not intent for it to be used. If that “Christian” father read his whole Bible, he would have known that child abuse and uncontrolled anger is wrong. So, since he twisted a Scripture to justify his own wicked actions, it is not discrimination to tell him that he doesn’t have the right to live out what he believes.

          • Mr. Chips

            They’re not different issues in the context of Christians using the bible to justify picking and choosing which laws they obey and which they ignore based on their so-called “deeply held religious beliefs.” Now answer the question: If a Christian father wanted to beat his child and used scripture to support his belief, is it discrimination to tell him that he doesn’t have the right live out what he believes?

          • Jana

            I already answered you on that.

          • Mr. Chips

            You didn’t answer the question, you avoided answering it. The bible says, “Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.” If a Christian father beat his child for fear that, if he didn’t, his child’s soul would go to hell, would it be discrimination for the police to tell the father he didn’t have the legal right to do that? These are his “deeply held religious beliefs” after all.

          • Jana

            These two issues are in different categories. God clearly stated that
            homosexuality is a sin. The issue of disciplining your child falls in a
            category where some people misuse Scripture in a way that God did not
            intent for it to be used. If that “Christian” father read his whole
            Bible, he would have known that child abuse and uncontrolled anger is
            wrong. So, since he twisted a Scripture to justify his own wicked
            actions, it is not discrimination to tell him that he doesn’t have the
            right to live out what he believes.

          • Jana

            You have to read all of Scripture IN CONTEXT. You can’t just take out
            one piece of Scripture and take it out of context just to suit your
            needs. The same book of Proverbs that you took that scripture out of
            also says that uncontrolled anger is folly and a sin. You have to apply
            the two Scriptures together. It is not wrong to discipline your child
            but it becomes wrong when you do it in anger, and not in love. You can
            have wrong beliefs even about things that is written in the Bible.
            Therefore the Bible have been used often to justify atrocities. People
            that twist God’s Word to mean something that it doesn’t does not have
            the right to “live out their beliefs”.

          • Gigi

            There’s no scripture twisting. It’s right there in the text that Mr. Chips quoted below… “Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.” (Proverbs 23:14-14) Are you suggesting that despite the fact that it’s RIGHT THERE IN THE BIBLE that God didn’t really mean what he said? Are you calling God a liar?

          • Jana

            No, but you are calling God a liar by saying that He doesn’t know what He’s talking about when He says homosexuality is a sin. You have to read all of Scripture IN CONTEXT. You can’t just take out one piece of Scripture and take it out of context just to suit your needs. The same book of Proverbs that you took that scripture out of also says that uncontrolled anger is folly and a sin. You have to apply the two Scriptures together. It is not wrong to discipline your child but it becomes wrong when you do it in anger, and not in love. You can have wrong beliefs even about things that is written in the Bible. Therefore the Bible have been used often to justify atrocities. People that twist God’s Word to mean something that it doesn’t does not have the right to “live out their beliefs”.

      • Cady555

        Christians don’t believe in Judaism, but they sell cakes and dresses for Jewish weddings.

        The Bible is clear about divorce. Christians are opposed to premarital sex. But the dress shops and the bakers never mention turning away divorcees, or people who already have a child, or people on their second or third marriage.

        The Bible says the man should be the head of the family, but did the dress shop or the baker question the bride about obedience?

        The bible is quite clear on gluttony. Does the shop sell plus sizes? Does the baker sell gigantic, sugar laden cakes? How does the baker protect against their cake being used for gluttony?

        So tell me, are the shop owners and the bakers “living out what they believe” or discriminating against one and only one type of “sinner”?

        • Jana

          If any of what you mentioned, goes against someone’s conscience, they should not be forced or coerced into service. There are many bakers, dress makers, florists around. Go to someone that will service you. How difficult is that?

  • Jana

    God will bless you for your obedience and He will open a new door for you and He will provide for you!

  • Gay business owners do not turn away Straight customers. We do not tolerate discrimination, pure and simple. If you want to preach your moral doctrines, feel free to start your own church. But a business is not a church. Victoria Miller was there to turn a profit. If she turns away customers just because she has theological disagreements with them, there will be a backlash.

    It is worth noting that the State of Pennsylvania does not include sexual orientation as a protected category in its civil rights laws.

  • Reason2012

    So now the deception being used by the anti-Christ activists is to support and promote anti-Christ acts instead of pointing out God’s truth otherwise God would cal you unloving. If a black business owner who has no problem serving everyone does not comply to a request to support a anti-black act, the left would call him racist as well. This is the deception they use on Christians.

    Meanwhile these same lgbt activists defend islam as it’s being taught in more and more public schools, ignored how 50 LGBT were slaughtered in Florida by someone doing what islam commands, ignore how every country that is being run by islam, lgbt are slaughtered, which shows they’re not really lgbt, but are islam activists posing as lgbt to eradicate Christianity one piece at a time. Meanwhile search on public school islam and read all about growing cases where islam is force fed on all the kids while Christianity is censored. And these lgbt activists will defend it by either pretending it doesn’t happen, or acting like there’s nothing wrong with kids being ‘educated’ about islam.

    • Public schools are not for religious indoctrination, whether you are talking about Judaism, Islam, Christianity, or Hinduism. Religion has no place in public schools, period. Public schools are tasked with teaching students the basics of English, math, science, and geography.

  • L. Ron Mexico

    Good. Screw those homophobes.

  • seeeteee

    This is why you need to keep unprovable magic out of the stream of commerce. If you want to dip your toe into capitalism, you need to obey the laws that the people made.

  • Fenrox

    This is the way things should be. The Christain store doesn’t want to do business with the public, so they close. There is no downside here, if I didn’t want to run a Dry Cleaner, I would close my Dry Cleaner Business.

  • The baker made the right “choice” in this situation. When a business owner is unable to separate personal beliefs from doing business with all of the public, then it’s appropriate for them to close. It’s really disappointing that some folks choose to use their God and Jesus to turn people away at the “stables” because they are different. You see, that would be sanctioned bigotry if the law for a pluralistic society allowed, presumably caring and God-fearing people care for only themselves. I mean, what if businesses decided to stop serving christians. That would be an embarrassing and humiliating position to be in, would it not? Orientation is not a choice but believing is.

  • northalabama

    threats are inexcusable, and name calling never helps to constructively engage in any discussion.

    that said, courts have routinely ruled there’s a stark difference between the liberty to practice one’s own religious beliefs, and attempts by businesses to impose those same religious beliefs on their customers.

    if these particular business owners are unable to see the difference, they made the correct decision.

    • Reason0verhate

      Yeah!

  • scream4ever

    It’s very offensive to put ‘wedding’ in quotes like that and also makes you lose credibility right from the get go. I in turn could say that you are ‘Christians’ 😛

  • Marco Luxe

    It’s easy to fabricate claims of harassing voicemail and bad yelp reviews. These claims should be deleted from the story, as they try to prove too much and try to turn a news story into propaganda. Take them with a grain of salt.

  • Luminous

    If you know anyone who thinks homosexuals are happy and secure in their own skins, please link them to this thread.

    • Mr. Chips

      After reading the article and the comments that followed, the ones who seem unhappy and insecure in their own skins are the self-professed Christian business owners and their supporters.

  • Kelly Ries

    So to be clear…Christian wedding type business cant sell to same-sex couples because it violates an reference in the book of Mark because doing so they would be violating that part in bible. But a Christian gun shop owner sells guns and ammo to a person who murders spouse or random people and that’s ok because the commandment “Thou shalt not kill” is really more of a mild suggestion and not a big deal.

    • Reason0verhate

      My goodness, that is such an intelligent and insightful comment. How did you find out that the guns labeled “For Spouse Killing” were such big sellers at Christian gun stores? We’ve been trying to keep that hushed up! Oh, well! I guess the cat is out of the bag now!

      • Mr. Chips

        The fact that any guns are sold at Christian gun stores would seem to be contrary to the “thou shalt not kill” commandment. There’s no qualifier. If you’re selling something that can be used to kill, you’re participating in murder.

        • Amos Moses – He>i

          bogus logic …………..

      • Cady555

        Well, the lady asking for a dress just wanted a dress like that sold to any customer. She didn’t want a “pervert’s dress”, just a dress.

        If a gun to use to commit a murder looks just like any other gun, how is it that a dress for a wedding is so so so different from all the other dresses for weddings?

    • Amos Moses – He>i

      if a person walks into said gun shop and announces his intention to use it in such a manner …… ANY reasonable seller would refuse the sale ….. not just a christian …………….