Michigan Pastors Deliver 23,000 Petitions to Lawmakers Who Want Metro City Church Investigated for Offering Help to Homosexual Youth

LANSING, Mich. — Michigan pastors delivered 23,000 petitions this week to two state lawmakers who have urged Attorney General Bill Schuette to investigate Metro City Church for offering biblical teaching to teenage girls who struggle with homosexuality or gender dysphoria.

“It is alarming that legislators, who have sworn an oath to uphold the Constitution, have attacked the free speech rights and free exercise of religion by a local church congregation, in direct violation of the First Amendment,” the petition, addressed to Rep. Darrin Camilleri (D-Brownstown Twp.) and Rep. Adam Zemke (D-Ann Arbor), reads.

“Moreover, as government officials, for you to dictate what a local church must teach regarding its theology is totalitarian in nature, and is at the heart of what the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment was meant to prevent,” it states.

“I urge you to respect the freedom of this church to teach what the Bible says about human sexuality and withdraw your request for an unconstitutional government investigation into Metro City Church and FORGE Ministries.”

As previously reported, Jeremy Schossau, the pastor of Metro City Church, offered an “Unashamed Identity Workshop” in February, a six-week offering for girls ages 12-16 who are struggling with thoughts that they might be homosexual or transgender.

“Does your child or grandchild struggle with sexual identity? Do you see the pain and hurt of their struggle but you’re uncertain how to help?” a webpage for the workshop read.

“It doesn’t have to be this way. With God’s help there can be healing, wholeness and hope. Through thoughtful, relevant and biblical counsel we will help your girl be unashamed of her true sexual identity given to her by God at birth,” it stated.

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A number of homosexual advocates became angry after seeing a social media post about the offering and left threatening voicemail and email for Schossau.

“The vast majority are filled with vulgarity, hate and threats of all kinds,” Schossau told reporters. “Threats to kill me, my family and to burn our home and church down. What we find incredibly odd is there is no seeking to understand what we are truly doing. There is only the assumption that we are practicing some sort of conversion therapy, as it’s traditionally known.”

Schossau stated repeatedly during the ordeal that he was not offering conversion therapy, but simply talking with the youth, speaking the truth in love in accordance to the Scriptures as a pastor.

“I think it is very sad that people are willing to yell and scream and be profane at people, but never actually talk to us to find out what we’re doing,” he stated.

Hundreds of protesters also turned up outside of the church for two of the scheduled dates, holding signs such as such as “Self-hatred is not therapy,” “You can’t fix them; they’re not broken,” and “Love is love.” Because of the threats of violence, Metro City Church cancelled the workshop and took the event page off its website.

“The workshop has gained so much negative attention on social media and news outlets that the church has cancelled the workshop, fearing that protest may turn violent,” police wrote in their report. “The church is receiving approximately 40 voicemail messages a minute from critics of the Unashamed Identity Workshop.”

Camilleri and Zemke soon wrote a letter to Attorney General Schuette, asking him to investigate the church for a violation of the Consumer Protection Act.

“The attorney general is uniquely situated with the power and duty to prevent those that sponsor this workshop from targeting families and young people and scamming them out of their hard-earned money for a practice that has no basis in science,” Camilleri stated, according to the News Herald.

“This inappropriate and destructive practice has no place in our communities,” he said. “Rather than trying to change each other, we must instead come together to accept and appreciate our differences, and realize that those differences are what makes our state stronger.”

Reps. Jon Hoadley (D-Kalamazoo), Tim Sneller (D-Burton) and Jeremy Moss (D-Southfield) were also signees of the letter.

Schossau and others have found the move to be absurd.

“People have always gone to their spiritual leaders for advice,” Schossau said in a statement. “Pastors have always done this and we will continue to do this. And, we don’t need the government to tell us what we can and cannot say. And, we do not need the government to tell us what kind of advice we need to give, or a license to give that advice.”

The Washington-based Family Research Council (FRC) launched a petition to Camilleri and Zemke, urging them to rescind their request for an investigation and to respect the rights of pastors to provide biblical counsel. On Tuesday, 23,000 signed petitions were delivered to the two lawmakers.

“Pastor Jeremy Schossau’s leadership at Metro City Church has created a place that is governed by the precepts and principles of God’s word and is compelled by the love of God. The workshop offered by Metro City Church and FORGE Ministries was created to answer difficult and sensitive questions on identity and sexuality from a biblical perspective,” said Randy Wilson, the national field director for FRC’s “Watchman on the Wall” pastoral network effort.

“Metro City is putting love into action by offering a safe place for teenage girls struggling with sexual identity issues from a biblical perspective not a personal opinion. For elected officials to call for an investigation into matters of the church is a gross violation of the First Amendment and government overreach,” he declared.

As previously reported, Christians believe that all men are born with the Adamic sin nature, and have inherent inclinations that are contrary to the law of God, being utterly incapable of helping themselves. It is why Jesus outlined in John 3:5-7 that men must be regenerated by the second birth.

“Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God,” he declared. “That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.”

2 Corinthians 5:15-17 also teaches, “He died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto Him which died for them, and rose again. … Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”


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  • ISA41:10

    Homosexuality is a sin and Christ came to set people free from sin.

    • Tristan Fry

      We no of no means of changing human sexuality in science. And it isn’t a sin, because homosexuality isn’t what you do, it’s what you are. If you are attracted to the same gender and never act on it, you are still a homosexual. So there is no sin involved.

      If you want to say that homosexual ACTIVITY is a sin, I still disagree, but for a completely different reason.

      • james blue

        I agree with that, Temptation is not sin.

        • True, temptation is not sin as the Bible well teaches. We are even told that Jesus while on earth was tempted but without sin. The sin comes when we act.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            the sin comes when we THINK to act ….. the thought is the sin ………..

          • ToneBurst

            So you are the thought police? Is that why you feel you can tell who is and who isn’t a Christian with people you have never met?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Nope … Gods word from scripture ……..

          • ToneBurst

            God’s word from scripture doesn’t grant you magical powers to read minds.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            and again …. i do not have to …. their WORDS STATE QUITE ELOQUENTLY their not being christians ………….

          • ToneBurst

            You do not possess the ability to read minds, no one does. Your own words are stating an ability you do not have.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope …. YOUR words are stating a thing i never claimed …. YOU claimed it as a straw man argument ….. again ….. their WORDS condemn them …….. i just read them ……..

          • ToneBurst

            You don’t know what a person’s faith is by what they write to you on a screen. You’re about the looniest person I’ve ever spoken to online.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            the words are their words ……. do not have to read anything but their words ….. and have an understanding of English ……….

          • ToneBurst

            Just because you disagree with them doesn’t make them unChristian.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            who “them” ……….. got a list ……….

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
            1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
            1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
            1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
            1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
            1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
            1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

          • It is a fine line you lay out and I see your point. Like Jesus we may be tempted in a situation or idea but that is NOT sin. However once we begin to examine in our mind how we can achieve that which has tempted us, we then enter into sin.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            well it was Christ who laid it all out … He raised the bar from act to thought … Matthew 5:17-48 ….. peace brother ……..

          • ToneBurst

            So in the case of the homosexual, the sin comes when they fall in love, which is A-OK when anyone else does it? Come on.

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            Amen!

      • You only state personal opinion, ignoring any existence of a higher authority and thousands of years of societal determination and practice. Those thousands of years as well as modern medicine also show the detriment to health that such a lifestyle brings.

        The desires may feel normal, even right, but that does not make them normal or right.

        I find it interesting that those of your mindset think that one can change their sex, but not their orientation. Perhaps if more of the public knew one could abstain or even be changed, they might not sympathize as they seem to do. Is that your phobia?

        • Tristan Fry

          The problem is you think science equals my opinion, and it doesn’t. I wouldn’t just go along with science unless it had proof, or in this case didn’t have any. You are putting all your faith in…your faith. To me there is no higher authority than that which we can back up with evidence. And without evidence, in this case meaning conversion “therapy”, I cannot back it.

          One can abstain but I do not feel that it is a loving Christian message to tell people to live loveless lives. You apparently do.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            the problem is you think science is a higher authority than God ……. and your claim of being a “christian liturgical musician” is a lie …… and so is the rest of what you say ………… and BRUCE Jenner just disproves eveything you just said ………….

          • Tristan Fry

            I am not even going to guess where your mind is going with the Bruce Jenner thing, but yes, I am a church organist. I have been for over 30 years. And science is always a higher authority when it resorts to evidence. You don’t do that when you make appeals to your God.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            and again ….. so much for your claim of being a christian ……

          • ToneBurst

            And again, so much for you learning that you can’t read the minds of people you have never met.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            and again … i d not have to read any minds ….. all you have to do is READ THEIR WORDS ….. and who they do NOT consider as authority ……….

          • ToneBurst

            No, if you don’t know someone in person you are not qualified to make guesses about their faith.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            i know what they tell the world by what they write here …………… i do not have to guess … it is plain ………. and YOU ” are not qualified to make guesses” about anything either as to my knowledge and conversations with them NOR what LIES they have told …… or claims they have made …..

          • AMEN!

          • ToneBurst

            In this response you are nothing less than a walking example of the no true scotsman fallacy…you’re saying “unless you do things exactly the way I do them you are a “nominal Christian” or “false Christian”. If you are wondering what gives you away, it’s the fact that you even use idiotic phrases like “nominal Christian”. You cannot know people based on a few sentence they write online….and you are lying if you say you can. Jesus isn’t on your side as much as you think. In fact you WWJD types should ask yourself if Jesus would accept gay people or shun them, but I think you know the answer.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            see ….. right there ….. baloney reasoning ….. and that only argument you seem to come up with is that WE CANNOT TELL IF ANOTHER IS LYING …… and it is complete BOVINE SCATOLOGY ………….

          • ToneBurst

            Joined November 29th, 2016. And I had no idea who you were or anyone else here.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            right …. and made no posts till today ….. sock puppets can make phoney accounts at any time …. means nothing ………….

          • ToneBurst

            I wouldn’t wait a year for the “privilege” of arguing with you.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you waited five minutes ………. and here you are arguing anyway …. despite your silly assertions …………..

          • ToneBurst

            I didn’t “wait” period. I showed up, saw you doing something that was not consistent with normal human behavior and pointed it out. That’s all there is to it.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            sure you did …… you waited how many years and made 30-40 posts just recently ….. so your assertions are a lie ………..

            disqus_VCOGKVBJAI
            ToneBurst

            Comments 54
            Discussions
            Recommends
            Followers 1
            Following 3
            23 Upvotes
            Joined Nov 29, 2016

            YUP ….. spells it all out ………. you are a sock ………

          • ToneBurst

            I don’t know if all Christian fundmentalists are as nuts as you are, but no, I don’t know how to go two years into the past to create accounts to annoy people I have no interest in.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “to create accounts to annoy people I have no interest in.”

            and yet here you are trying to do just that …… and you are now in the arena of SELF-CONTRADICTION and a true LIAR …………….

            i enjoy long walks ….. especially when they are taken by people who are trying to annoy me ………….. have fun in the PEEWEE league …………

          • Good catch!

          • Fred Onisko

            Typical cuntiness…why don’t you go ban 30 or 40 people who have done nothing wrong…

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            TOS VIOLATION …………….

          • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

            BobRumba, this is a Christian site. You have your own site to be used for your hate.
            In the Name of Jesus. I seek God to rebuke you and to rebuke your hate, on the behalf of LC and all Christians on this site.

          • Amen!

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            all lies become READILY APPARENT when what a person says is RIFE with SELF-CONTRADICTION ……….. classic modus operandi of a LIAR ………

          • ToneBurst

            There hasn’t been any self contradiction, merely things you don’t like.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            was not talking about you or are you forgetting who you are posting in a different account sock puppet ………… see …. another sure sign of a liar …… conflicting stories and cant keep the lies straight ………..

          • ToneBurst

            Anyone who wants to can see my profile and it dates back to 2016 when you were just a bad dream. Unless you’re going to tell me that I knew I’d be here arguing with you over a year later.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            people create sock puppet accounts all the time and have multiples so they can just pull it up …… your protestations are meaningless ………….. sock ……..

          • ToneBurst

            They don’t go back two years in the past to do it. I think your paranoia is a little bit over the top. Accept that there’s someone whom you don’t know who thinks you’re wrong. I’m sure it happens all the time.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            nope … you created it that long ago ….. so what ……….. tucked it into a pocket for later use …… silly rabbit …………….

          • ToneBurst

            Two years later? You might just be the stupidest person on the face of the earth. You’re certainly an appalling Christian.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            again ….. so no argumentation any longer …… just epithet and personal attacks ………. i see ……

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “In fact you WWJD types should ask yourself if Jesus would accept gay people or shun them, but I think you know the answer.”

            He has given them over to their own perverse desires …… and has nothing further to say to them until He is ready ……….. and that will either be judgement …… or His decision to finally save them from it ……

          • ToneBurst

            Jesus ate with lepers and prostitutes.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Jesus did …… SO WHAT ……….

          • ToneBurst

            So He wasn’t here to punish and degrade people as you are so fond of doing.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Matthew
            10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
            10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
            10:36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.
            10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
            10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

            Christ came not to unite … BUT TO DIVIDE ……….. there is no universal salvation ….. that is a lie ….. and you just told it …………

          • ToneBurst

            Well then, you just go about your business dividing and creating all the disharmony and hatred and division among Christians and continue to pretend that you are one, then.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            Christ divides …… and you are here to cause that division ………. have fun ……….

          • ToneBurst

            No, I’m just pointing out that you’re a lunatic.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            so no argumentation any longer …… just epithet and personal attacks ………. i see ……

          • ToneBurst

            Well, you’re an asshole, Amos, and maybe the reason you run into trouble with other people here is that you tell them their opinions rather than ask them.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            so now a TOS VIOLATION …… was nice not knowing you ……… thnx ………..

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
            1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
            1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
            1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
            1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
            1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
            1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them….

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            “Jesus isn’t on your side as much as you think.”

            and you know this HOW …… RIGHT ….. you do not …………

          • ToneBurst

            Simply because you think he ALWAYS agrees with you, and the number of Christians here who’ve pointed out you’re wrong.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            bassackwards and upside down …. go back to your PEEWEE league ……….

          • ToneBurst

            So now you’re saying you don’t get into battles with other Christians here?

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            you are not a christian ……. there are numerous christians here who i “don’t get into battles with” …… whatever that means …………

          • ToneBurst

            You fight with Christians left and right here. You just tell yourself they aren’t Christians because you don’t like that they know more about it than you do.

          • Amos Moses – He>i

            LOL ……….. sure ….. whatever you have to tell yourself ………….

          • ToneBurst

            You don’t get to tell people who is and who is not a Christian. I’ll probably get banned for being so forthright with you here but you need to hear it for your own good. You’re a lousy representative of Christians.

          • LynnRH

            “Jesus would accept gay people or shun them”

            Jesus would treat gay people just like he treated the woman caught in adultery. He would tell them, “go and sin NO MORE.”

          • ToneBurst

            No He wouldn’t. There is no “sin” going on because of they way they were either born or developed in infancy. Shame on you.

          • Tim Matter

            Tristan Fry- I think the different denominations get to decide what they consider to be a sin. To Catholics, it is only a sin if you act on it. To many Protestants, just the thought (same sex attraction) is also a sin. Good luck trying to control what you think. (Don’t think of a pink elephant)

          • No, The Bible decides what is and is not sin and what is and is not Christian behavior. All others are only playing church and are in a state of false security which is zero security in the end.

          • Tim Matter

            Jim Oakly- But Christians disagree on what the Bible means. Which of the Old Testament laws are still binding on Christians today? I’ve head everything from “Jesus fulfilled the law so we don’t have to follow it any more” to “Jesus didn’t abolish any of the law. He made it stricter” (Hating someone = murder and looking at a woman lustfully = adultery)

            Most Christians seem to pick and choose which laws they want to force others to live by, for example homosexuality is still an abomination, but eating shellfish and eating or touching pork is no longer an abomination.
            Maybe it is because they personally can’t stand gays, but love bacon and football.

          • If you would do a serious read of the Bible instead of picking and choosing things might become more clear to you.

            We do not find the prohibition against pork, shellfish, etc in the New Testament which came into effect upon the death of Christ on the cross. However we do find the prohibitions on homosexuality carried over into the New Testament and even enhanced there.

            Neither you or me are responsible for what “other Christians” do. Jesus made it clear that those following any kind of pied piper will be led astray and into condemnation.

            Like most people I have no dislike of gay people simply because they are gay. I do prefer to not associate with them or any other people who deny the authority of God in their life. Frankly for those who are not Christian, yet understand and readily confess that their life is not right, they have my fond wishes, prayers, help, and hope. Over the years I have found many such people to be among the sweetest folks I’ve known and this does include gays.

            Nobody is being forced to believe or follow any certain path. However like a one way street, there is always a correct direction and a wrong direction, depending on where one is headed.

          • Tim Matter

            Jim Oakley- “If you would do a serious read of the Bible instead of picking and choosing things might become more clear to you.”
            I got those differing interpretations of which of the Old Testament laws are still in effect from Christians who claim to have seriously read the Bible and claim to have the leading of the Holy Spirit.
            They can’t even agree on the meaning of one paragraph. Matthew 5:17-19 ” Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
            For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
            Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”
            I think almost the whole paragraph says that the O.T. law will be in effect until the end of the world. The unclear part is, what does he mean by “fulfil”? So many Christians think it means that Jesus kept the O.T. laws perfectly his whole life, so now we don’t have to follow them anymore. I don’t think that’s what he meant.

          • Those who would justify themselves always find a way. Seems you have found yours…

          • Tim Matter

            But how can we tell who is right? God is supposedly not the author of confusion, so why can’t Christians agree on which of the 613 Old Testament laws are still supposed to be obeyed by Christians?

          • Most of it depends on one’s definition of “Christian” don’t you think?
            “Christians” don’t agree on even what constitutes the very Word of God (the Bible version). However with the truly born again Bible believing Christian, there is no division or disagreement. God has reserved them throughout the land and I can assure you they are not the leaders, the most popular, or the loudest. However they are the most despised, the most hated by this world and the most loved by God Himself.

          • QUOTE: ” I wouldn’t just go along with science unless it had proof…” END QUOTE.
            Then I assume based on your statement you have not accepted Evolution or the popular claim that homosexuals are born that way because there is no proof on either. Neither is there proof for what many people believe.

            As for conversion therapy or what ever one calls it, there are many testimonies that it does work for those who are sincere and truly want to change.

            As for your claim that my faith is in my faith, I would say you apparently do not understand, nor have experienced, Christian faith, but alas, neither have many who say they believe in Jesus Christ.

            Living a sexless life is by no means living a loveless life. I find such a claim to be shallow, uninformed, and unthinking. Perhaps you need to broaden the group of people you associate with and listen to.

          • ToneBurst

            OK I’ll just go tell my uncle who is an evolutionary biologist that he isn’t a scientist because there’s no proof in the things he deals with every day of his life. No one knows if homosexuals are born that way or if it develops in early life but it doesn’t matter, we know it exists. Ever taken the time to discover what “conversion therapy” means? Because it doesn’t mean turning someone from gay to straight. It means telling gay people to suppress all feelings and live celibate. Not a very Christian attitude if you ask me. And guess what, we are all sexual beings and there is no good reason to suppress that part of ourselves to appease a character in an ancient book who likely made no such demands of us anyway. Yes I would find anyone telling me to be celibate is essentially telling me to live a loveless life.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            QUOTE: ” I wouldn’t just go along with science unless it had proof…” END QUOTE.
            Then I assume based on your statement you have not accepted Evolution

            Whoa, slow down there. For one thing, science doesn’t really deal with proof, it deals with evidence. There is a great amount of evidence for evolution. Evolution is as much of an undisputed fact as anything in science.

          • There is not one shred of evidence for Evolution that leads from A to B. All they have are a few disassociated items that they don’t understand or cannot categorize. They mix those with dreamed up scenarios and label it a “theory” then gradually move their theory into the mainstream teaching. All the time they conveniently forget to mention that it is only a theory with not enough evidence to string it together as fact. Today’s brainwashed masses seem to have forgotten the definition of theory or either have redefined the word.

            Evolution is the type of path folks go down when they have rejected the truth and common sense while trying to avoid the authority of a higher power over their lives.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            First of all, let’s get this “only a theory” nonsense out of the way. When we talk about the theory of evolution, (or any other scientific theory for that matter) we’re talking about a scientific theory, not a “theory” in the sense like people might use it in everyday speech, to mean “unproven idea” or “guess”. In scientific terms, you’d call that a hypothesis or a conjecture. From wikipedia:

            “A scientific theory is an explanation of an aspect of the natural world that can be repeatedly tested, in accordance with the scientific method, using a predefined protocol of observation and experiment. Established scientific theories have withstood rigorous scrutiny and embody scientific knowledge.”

            So, we don’t even really get a theory of something until the thing that it describes is an established fact of science. Also, that means scientists can have debates about a theory or change the theory or even discard it entirely and replace it with a new one while not having any dispute whatsoever about the existence of whatever it describes. Look up the history of gravitational theory if you want a good example of that. (and as far as I know, that definition of “scientific theory” has been used since before the theory of evolution was thought of)

            Also, you said “there is not one shred of evidence that leads from A to B”….well, what do you mean by that? What’s A and what’s B?

          • So when we get down to brass tacks we see that Evolution does not even warrant the “theory” status. Thanks for clarifying that fact for us.

            In answer to your question, “A” would be a dinosaur becoming a bird which is “B”. Or a monkey (A) becoming a man (B). etc. and on through ever single similar claim the Evolutionists make. They can not lay before us every phase (or even close) that they claim anything passed through in order to become something else. Further more, they never will be able to do so because people began as people and fish as fish and reptiles and mammals as their respective species, types, kinds etc..

          • TheKingOfRhye

            “A” would be a dinosaur becoming a bird which is “B”.

            Birds are essentially the last surviving type of dinosaur.

            Or a monkey (A) becoming a man (B)

            Men are the smartest, least hairy apes, and we have a common ancestor with other primates, like monkeys and such.

            They can not lay before us every phase (or even close) that they claim anything passed through in order to become something else.

            Every phase? Do you realize what that would mean? Literally every single generation. (since evolution never stops) Or in other words, in the case of going backwards from modern humans back to whatever early ancestor whether it be earlier humans or something more ape-like….your parents to their parents to their parents to their parents, etc, etc. That is both impossible and unnecessary. Can you even name all of your own ancestors from the last thousand years, let alone the up to hundreds of thousands of years we’d be talking about here?

            It’s a little like the old “missing link” argument: A creationist asks the scientist for a “missing link” between animals A and C, so the scientist presents fossils of animal B, which has characteristics of both A and C….so the creationist then asks for “missing links” between A and B, and between B and C, and we could keep going on forever. Also called “moving the goalposts”.

          • I’ve heard all this ignorance a hundred times no doubt over the years and am no closer to believing it now than I was the first time. In other words, you are wasting your time when you preach the nonsense you peddle.

            The fact is, I have a Spiritual mind and understand things that your carnal mind can never comprehend. No, I’m not trying to sound superior or better than you. Actually my mind is better because it has been changed by God Himself and He has enabled me and other born again Christians to see from His perspective.

            The carnal mind is ruled by Satan whose goal is to keep people in darkness and ignorance.

            Man is no part ape, never has been. It is two different kinds of flesh. The flesh of man is unique among all the flesh in the world and was purposely designed to be so.

            Wise folks take to heart the following words lest they be shown to be foolish in the end.

            “But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.” ~ 1 Corinthians 15:38-39

          • TheKingOfRhye

            No, I’m not trying to sound superior or better than you

            Sounded like it to me; you even said just about as much in the very next sentence.

            Man is no part ape

            Correct, in a way. We’re not part ape, we are apes. Great apes, aka family Hominidae. I just looked this up, actually: According to the Smithsonian Institute’s National Museum of Natural History’s website, humans have usually about a 0.1% genetic difference between one another…and chimpanzees are our closest relatives at about 1.2%,

            You say I’m wasting my time; well, you’re wasting your own time if you think verses from the Bible are supposed to convince me that hundreds of years of scientific observations and conclusions are wrong.

          • I have no hope of convincing you of anything. Only God can show you the truth as your eyes need more than the pool of Siloam to be opened.

            How about looking up the article
            “Longest Evolution Experiment Dead-End”
            on the latest failure of the Evolutionists? One of your scientists set out to prove that Evolution is true and held the longest running experiment that started out with great fanfare and promise. The scientist and all Evolutionists now have egg on their face (and a little E Coli as well).

            Louis Pasteur, a French chemist and microbiologist who was one of the most important founders of medical microbiology, was driven to today’s
            increasingly popular conclusion.

            “Science brings one nearer to God.”

          • Bob Johnson

            You really should read some other sources regarding Richard Lenski’s experiment

          • WHY would I do that? I already know the truth have read the propaganda off and on for years. I’m not undecided and trying to reach a decision because I made one 25 years ago today when I became a born again Christian. I no longer stumble around in the dark looking for truth and I don’t expect non-Christians to understand.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            A few problems with that article I see right away:

            By starting with E. coli and ending with E. coli, Lenski’s laboratory project now has the distinction as the industry’s longest evolution experiment dead-end.

            Even if he didn’t observe speciation, he still observed evolution.

            Lenski’s goals of his experiment, according to Wikipedia:

            To examine the dynamics of evolution, including the rate of evolutionary change.

            To examine the repeatability of evolution.

            To better understand the relationship between change on the phenotypic and genotypic levels.

            Also, from that article you mentioned:

            the scientific evidence found in nature is increasingly best explainable by the Genesis record written by Moses.

            Hardly. The events described in Genesis are completely contradicted by science.

          • QUOTE: “The events described in Genesis are completely contradicted by science.” END

            Shows just how little some folks know about the Bible, the earth, and the “science” they claim to have mastered.
            Have a good weekend.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            For one thing, the order in which everything was supposedly created is completely wrong.

          • Now we get down to the bottom line I see. You are obviously under the delusion that you are God Almighty. You are free to not believe the Bible. You are free to disagree with the Bible. You are even free to denigrate the Bible, as you have just done. However I am under no obligation to listen to your blasphemy.

            What is wrong is the understanding of carnal men who are puffed up in their carnal minds. They think they can understand and teach Spiritual matters with that same carnal understanding. The Bible says they become fools.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            You are obviously under the delusion that you are God Almighty.

            Why would think I am something that I don’t believe in in the first place?

            They think they can understand and teach Spiritual matters

            I’m not trying to “teach spiritual matters”, whatever on earth that even means. I don’t speak that kind of language. I’m talking about something the Bible says that contradicts science. No spirituality involved here.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Also, that wasn’t even a rebuttal of anything I said, just basically an insult. But it seems like that is your main “debate tactic” if you call it that.

          • All you want to do is argue and beg for insults to be hurled at you. Every post of yours is an insult to serious Christians and to the Lord Jesus Christ. Now let us see who is king of insults.

            I don’t “debate.” Don’t pretend to debate, and have no intention of debating for there is nothing here open to debate. The truth is set, it does not change and having accepted the truth and the truth Giver, I do not change either on where I stand or what I believe.

            Like the Bible says, you wrestle against yourself to your own destruction.

            This is my last post on this subject to you. Continue to taunt if you must if it makes you feel superior and wise. I can’t help you.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            I don’t even see how there could be any disputing what I said about the order of creation in Genesis being NOT contradictory to science. You either have to deny science or, IMO a much more reasonable option, not take Genesis literally. If what you’re trying to tell me is that you don’t take it literally, that’s finel

        • TheKingOfRhye

          Perhaps if more of the public knew one could abstain

          From having sex? I think people know that already.

        • curious

          ….and that is the big lie. Homosexuality is a behavior, not an identity.

          • TheKingOfRhye

            Homosexuality (just like heterosexuality) is an orientation, not a behavior. Or look at this way: I’m heterosexual. I knew I was that way long before I ever had sex. Is it such a stretch to imagine homosexual people are the same way?

      • Amos Moses – He>i

        you are not a christian … so who cares and it is still just YOUR opinion ………..

      • cadcoke5

        Similar things could be said about other sorts of improper sexual desires, such as pedophilia, sadomasochism, etc. Perhaps the mental scars from such activities are so deep, that they are very difficult to heal. God may provide supernatural healing, but that is only guaranteed once a person reaches heaven.

        But, difficulty in treatment does not mean that homosexuality or pedophilia should be considered a normal or proper thing. That this church is willing to suffer, at the hands of those who want to keep these individuals in bondage to their sin, is a testimony of their faithfulnees to God, and his command to love your neighbor.

    • ♥LadyInChrist♥InGodITrust♥

      Amen.

  • Reason2012

    It’s one thing if you personally do not want help with an issue. But to demand that people who want help are not allowed to get help completely exposes the real evil behind intent behind the homosexual behavior / transgender activists agenda.

    • Tristan Fry

      How ridiculous to suggest everything has an “agenda”. This is not a conspiracy.

  • Reason2012

    Adults continue to permanently turn away from homosexuality, even after decades of believing the lie they were “born that way”, proving it’s not genetic, but the product of indoctrination, confusion, mental instability and/or abuse.

    Homosexual behavior is most literally pointed out as a sin, and God has not changed on that regard. But if a person has those inclinations but does not act upon them, does not dwell in lust upon others, but is instead struggling against them to avoid them, then it’s not a sin. It’s just like sinful inclinations of any kind: it’s acting upon it when it becomes a sin.

    And this is what God says about sin and specifically the behavior of homosexuality:

    Romans 1:26-27 ”For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: (27) And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their_lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ”Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [men who willingly take on the part of a “woman” with another man], nor abusers of themselves with mankind [s odomites], (10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”

    1 Timothy 1:9-10 ”Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, (10) For_whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind [s odomites], for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”

    Jude 1:7 ”Even as_Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”

    Luke 17:29 ”[Jesus said] But the same day that Lot went out of_Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.”

    Matthew 19:4-6 ”And he [Jesus] answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, (5) And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? (6) Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.”

    Jesus made it quite clear God made us male and female so that a man will leave his father and mother (not two fathers, not three mothers and so on) and cleave onto his wife (not his husband and so on).

    The Word of God rebukes us all – even if we all try to say we don’t believe the Bible, the very Word of God will be our judge when we face Him. And God is a righteous judge and will judge us all – not turn a blind eye to our sin. Do not be deceived by the world: it’s God we will have to convince that His word was a lie, not men. What happened in Noah’s day when the entire world rejected God? Did God spare them because there were so many? No – they all perished except for Noah and his family!

    Proverbs 9:10 ”The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.”

    God spared not His chosen people – we are kidding ourselves if we think He will spare the United States of America if we choose to blatantly turn away from Him.

    Jeremiah 12:17 ”But if they will not obey, I will utterly pluck up and destroy that nation, saith the LORD.”

    Luke 17:28-30 “So also as it was in the days of Lot: they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; (29) but the day Lot went out of Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from the heaven and destroyed them all. (30) Even so it shall be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.”

    Romans 1:18-32 “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [suppress] the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

    For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

    Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

    For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

    And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, m urder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”

    The entire Bible points out men having_sex with men is an abomination. Likewise woman having_sex with women. It’s not just Paul that pointed it out.

    Genesis 19:4-13 “But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of S odom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them [men wanting to have_sex with men].

    And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing [he offers his daughters to be_raped to keep them from having_sex with another man – shows_rape is not the issue but male on male_sex]; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

    And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.

    And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place: For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.”

    These two messengers were sent to destroy that place before the event where they tried to_rape these messengers.

    Leviticus 18:22 “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”

    Leviticus 20:13 “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination …”

    Even cross-dressing is an abomination:

    Deuteronomy 22:5 “The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.”

    Deuteronomy 23:17 “There shall be no_whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a s odomite of the sons of Israel.”

    1 Kings 22:46 “And the remnant of the s odomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.”

    1 Kings 15:11-12 “And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, as did David his father. And he took away the s odomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.”

    2 Kings 23:7 “And he brake down the houses of the s odomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.”

    Ezekiel 16:49-50 “Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister S odom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.”

    And the “pride” parades about homosexuality are more of the same.

    Even Jesus points out marriage is a man and a woman.

    Matthew 19:4-5 “And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?”

    Not father and father. Not mother and mother. Not his husband.

    And only two people of opposite gender can become “one flesh”.

    Live forever, people – not temporarily only to be cast out for living for the things of this world.

    May God/Jesus Christ be glorified!

  • Croquet_Player

    The reason legislators got involved is because the Metro City Church was charging $200.00 per person, and took out ads promoting the fee based “counseling” they were offering to the general public. In doing so, it is likely they have violated Michigan state consumer protection laws. People may preach whatever they like in their church, and counsel individuals who approach them, but if they start selling counseling services to the public, and take out ads promoting the same, a more stringent standard applies. And that’s true whether it’s a church or a dry cleaning business.

    • Where would we verify your story on this topic should we so desire?

      • Croquet_Player

        The News-Herald, of Southgate Michigan. I’m sorry I am unable to provide you a link, this site does not allow links.

  • Lydia Church

    Jesus offers the best conversion therapy of all; freedom from all sin, including homosexuality, when you convert to Him! It works as long as you are willing to repent. And they can’t stop any of that!
    So HA!
    : D

    • Tim Matter

      Lydia Church- “Jesus offers the best conversion therapy of all; freedom from all sin”
      Does that work? Did it work for you? Are you free from all sin?

      • Amos Moses – He>i

        and as a non-christian …. what kind of answer do you expect ………..

  • Karl Wood

    The 2 Corintrhians (5:15-17) quote is excellent. Even Peter Allen-entertainer long deceased now- sang ” Éverything old is new again’. Most would recall he was openly homosexual for years..

  • Conversion therapy is not “teaching” children anything. It is ensuring that the children so targeted are damaged psychologically. Children should be left alone to discover and develop their personal lives normally.

    Sexual orientation is established before birth. To attempt to change that after their predispositions manifest (usually at puberty) is to confuse and confound them. Any practice by any group that pressures children or adults to feel that their natural orientation is “wrong” and that they risk eternal damnation if they don’t change should and must be banned.